Near Death Experience

[iamwhoiam]

what you believe arron, is that everyone else should believe and do, what you believe and do.

[trainedobserver]

I was listening to someone the other day and they were talking about sleep as little death.

We have no idea whether we will wake up or not, but we do not fear it. We shouldn't fear death because we deal with the same situation every day.

I don't know if entirely buy that but I don't fear death. I simply refuse to be afraid of something that is as inevitable and natural as death is. Is there anything on the other side? Other side of what? Nothing suggests that the human personality can survive the destruction of the brain. So there is nothing to fear.

[fatherofaking]

something survives.

we are able to feel real fear when sleeping.
it will often wake us.

energy seems to be what survives.
there are some that even say that on some level memory survives.
past lives?

[trainedobserver]

>something survives.

What is it? How can you tell? I've been in the presence of the dead and dieing. I've seen nothing to suggest anything like that.

"we are able to feel real fear when sleeping.
it will often wake us."

You are speaking of dreams. Didn't Shakespeare say something about, to die, perchance to dream? Death cannot be exactly like sleep because sleep does not destroy the body and mind. Death does.

"energy seems to be what survives.
there are some that even say that on some level memory survives.past lives?"

For that energy to have any meaning it would have to be organized like the information in your brain. Memory is nothing but organized information. The only energy that I think we radiate is heat.

[arron]

when i die my body will be in the grave but my spirit will be with THE LORD in a consious state. i will be at rest for sure but i will have more enjoyment that i have ever known. and then when all GODS SAINTS get there what a time what a time what a time.

[fatherofaking]

Up to this point, our account has described how the physical world of objects has come into existence. In contrast with the more "natural" explanation, which accepts physical objects as "being there in the first place," our interpretation holds that the originating and primary "stuff" is unitary, undifferentiated, devoid of properties,* without form or substance; it is known to physicists as radiation.

*Wavelength or frequency in our view is not so much a property as a potency of the photon. The velocity of light is not so much a property (i.e., limitation) of light as it is a limitation on matter
http://mindfire.ca/The%20Geometry%20of%20Meaning/Chapter%209%20-%20Purposive%20Intelligence%20etc..htm

if young is correct this is how it starts.

i think the form is destroyed but not the substance.
if we are not the construct of our mind then the mind, even the brain is irrelavent to what may potentially survive.

it is interesting to note that too much of the very thing that brings life can poison and kill us.

[jayshawn]

"when i die my body will be in the grave but my spirit will be with THE LORD in a consious state. i will be at rest for sure but i will have more enjoyment that i have ever known. and then when all GODS SAINTS get there what a time wat a time what a time."

"my spirit will be with THE LORD in a conscious state. i will be at rest for sure.........."

What did you mean by this, was this saying you will be consciously active in heaven immediately after death in a "spiritual rest"?

If so are there scriptures that support the idea of being immediately in heaven after death?

[arron]

when i die i will go to be with THE LORD and the bible supports this you as an unbeliever cant see it, i will be at peace with THE LORD and will be praiseing and worshiping HIM for ever.

[jayshawn]

nice answer, in other words you have no support, you were better off not even bothering to post here if that's you can do to answer the question I posted.

Anyone else with actual answers?????

[still_small_voice]

"If so are there scriptures that support the idea of being immediately in heaven after death?"

Not many. This one maybe:

2 Cor 5:
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Yet given that it is pretty clear that Paul had the expectation of the return of Jesus in his lifetime, and the context of verses 1 thru 5 possibly referring to the resurrection... even this passage is not very clear.

[arron]

you are a fool because you do not believe in GOD no one can show an unbeleiver till they believe in GOD and you just want to argue

[jayshawn]

"you are a fool because you do not believe in GOD no one can show an unbeleiver till they believe in GOD and you just want to argue"

Thanks for the name calling. YOU ARE THE FOOL ARRON. are you happy now...I've called you a name too and now we can be all personal about it......(geeez)

Anyhow...WHY did you even bother to post in the thread I created if you already knew you would have no contribution to my question other than "it's in the scriptures but you're a fool who doesn't believe in god so I won't show you where I get my perspective."

I understand the bible more than you realize buddy but b/c I may or may not agree with you're version of it has nothing to do with being NOW a non-believer. So what arron...all the understanding I gained while being a believer has suddenly vanished b/c I now choose not to believe.......?

I advise that you shouldn't post if that's all you're bringing to the table. Let others with answers do it.

[jayshawn]

I agree SSV, I don't believe scriptures back the idea of someone immediately going to heaven or 'hell' after death but for whatever reason mainstream Xtiananity holds tight to the doctrine.

I don't even know how this was even brought into the conversation seeing how my question dealt with NDE BUT since it's here:

The Tanach I know gives no support for the idea. It does give very clear ideas of people going to "SHEOL" (the grave) upon death and no longer being active until the resurrection.

How did that turn into going to heaven or 'hell' after death......I don't know. Unfortunately translators should have simply left "SHEOL" translated as "SHEOL" in scriptures so people could have the PROPER understanding of what was being spoken about in the Tanach verses translated it grave, pit, and hell (hell being the worst translation but then again not to bad if one sees that "hell" in old english simply meant: wine cellar, pit, and also the fairy tell greek madness).

ANYHOW...I think more confusion takes place b/c of people's lack of really reading the Tanach and then going into the NT (Brit Chadasha) and seeing various passages that seem to speak of such an idea when really it doesn't.

[arron]

i never said i went to either heavven or hell i said i could feel myself floating i knew every thing i was at peace

[still_small_voice]

The concept of Hell and Sheol being combined was necessary to minimize this one (among other) problems of combining or attaching Christianity to Judaism which do not mix well. The Jews held and hold to a very different idea of God or Yahweh than what Christianity is based on. I am not Jewish but I understand their problems with the trinity. Three Gods to them and especially one that is human and God at the same time is, to them idolatry and forbidden.

By the way, on the subject of NDE I have had one, but it was not very much worth talking about, suffice it to say, I believe now, as I always have... the soul survives death.

[mistofrain]

From time to time I come here and read what others have to say about the church communities. This is one of the times I have felt led to post. In Nov. 1973 I had a NDE. This is a very short version of what happened to me. aaron as you said Satan came to me first and told me that death was coming soon...it will be over in a few minutes,whispering over and over the same line. I did travel through the tunnel of light that so many others have spoken about, but just when I was ready to stop fighting to live and succumb, their was a light...it was so bright that it enveloped me...not only physically but spiritually, I felt a joy that words cannot describe. (Its something that only others that have experienced it truly understand because of the intensity of it all.) The light didn't say I am God nor Jesus, I knew that I was standing before MY CREATOR. As others have said I was told I had to go back that their was work for me too do...when I came back, the SPIRIT was so strong on me that all the Drs. and nurses in the hospital room were crying. (Jews,Catholics,Protestants and yes that little black pentacostal orderly that was helping move me to the ICU. The SPIRIT was so strong she was shouting and speaking in tongues). Continued

[mistofrain]

I went to the church first to share my story. Boy was I ever poo poo'd or just given that funny look. I kept it too myself. I continued to search for the work he wanted me to do... in the churches, with people. I thought I had to make it all happen. I left the church, left the way of the living a Christian life. Married, had a child and divorced. Thought being humble was allowing people to walk all over me. Cared for both my parents until they passed away. I was tired, exhausted of trying to control everything in my life and make things happen. I was engaged to marry again...but their was this nagging...I finally went before the Lord and said I can't do this anymore, you said you had work for me to do...PLEASE TAKE CONTROL..and I will be forever YOUR HUMBLE SERVANT...I moved to Seattle, looked for a church, first one the Pastor's wife had left him with four children the day before and asked for divorce...real mess...been to many of the mega churches here...same stories that I read here on the message boards. Praise the Lord and pass the loot! THE LORD will bless with all the material things you want in YOUR LIFE...I am part native american and living here in the community I became involved...they understood when I told them about my NDE. and walking in THE CREATOR'S spirit...and then the Lord began to show me...those years that I walked and stumbled were lessons in life, they were my tools...tools to help others. It has been 8yrs now that I have been in Seattle...I walk the Red Road and each step gets better and better. My faith in the Creator and his son Jesus Christ gets stronger each day. My tithes go were it is needed, going and buying a family with 2 small children living in the streets supper every evening until they can get emergency help or witnessing to the brother as he sits their drinking a beer that I just bought him because he had the shakes so bad that he couldn't get to the detox center. Parting with a brotherly,sisterly hug even though the smell of vomit and urine was overpowering, but yet feeling like Jesus was their with us. Just being an example to those that are lost and trying to find the way, but can't find their way because they have never had someone to show them, not just tell them. Having it overwhelm you to the point you cry out "Lord I can't do this anymore" and he answers you with "Your not doing all the work I AM, your just here to witness my miracles" Boy is that ever humbling! I miss church terribly, the fellowship and being in one accord. Being feed the word by a pastor, when my cup fells almost empty. Yes I read and study my bible everyday, but sometimes we all like to be feed by someone else. I know I get tired of cooking! LOL Those of you that know the true Spirit of the Lord and his work will understand what I just shared. Yes I see and know you...as it says in the Bible...Last thought..Anyone else hearing the rumbling of the LORD? His Humble Servant, Barbara MistofRain

[jayshawn]

WOW...the second post their was unfortunately way off topic but okay. So from what I have read I would say that NDE is a powerful experience. Unfortunately for many it seems tainted to their exposure to Xtiananity or religion in general. BUT as you said SSV...maybe they do at least prove an existence beyond death.

I guess I'll just have to see like everyone else what happens afterwards (that's of course if I'm conscious after death). Thanks to all that offered their opinions on the matter (I wasn't really looking for stories but thanks anyhow to those who did I guess).

[still_small_voice]

Jaywhawn here is a link to a site if you feel like researching this subject further.

It is certainly not a "science" but in the areas which most are in agreement, I think there is a grain of reality.

http://www.near-death.com/

[still_small_voice]

"Yeah trained..I agree with you! There's no way I'm giving faith to what some dying man says he seen/heard. There's no way to prove it, there's no way of judging the likely fact that it's the mind giving the person visions of subconscious items that he/she has been exposed to in life"

One problem I see with NDEs, and really many could be called <u>after</u> death experiences because these people are actually brain dead and come back...

is the possibility many of these experiences actually happen prior to death, like a dream state, and seem to last however long, but the experience in real time happened for only seconds and prior to death.

The person comes back and relates what happened thinking it happened during the state of death, but quite possibly it was going on only prior to brain death.

The other problem with these experiences which is hard to reconcile is the contradictory experiences related. They can't all be true. Yet, if the basics are boiled down there appears to be common things experienced by a majority of people. There could be some truth to the matter, but, as someone pointed out, believing NDEs to the point of basing one's faith upon them is just as ridiculous as basing one's faith upon believing someone else's "revelation".