Vegan question

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

I read in the paper that the state of Georgia has charged a couple with murder in the death of their child. The parents were vegans. They fed the child the same diet. That was all the information in the paper, I can not tell you anymore.

Just curious what in the vegan diet is bad for children? I ask that because someone on the board claims to be vegan. Give me you expertize.

For those who do not know, the vegan diet is religious fair in the Adventist Movement and Hinduism.

[rachelengland]

www.vrg.org/nutshell/vegan.htm (http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/vegan.htm)

Sandy, here is vegan in a nutshell. I am very sorry to hear this about the child..but many follow this diet/lifestyle with no complications-what one is lacking from not eating meat can easily be found in other foods. maybe they were really restricting her diet and we should probably have the newslink posted here so we can read it thoroughly before accusing them..R

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

No accusations intented. Nor is the article important, as far as I am concerned. I have no desire to try a capital case on this message board. I have read the site mention and several others. Unfortunately, many medical authorities are opposed to the vegan diet for children. My question is still why?

Is there something missing in the diet a child needs? Iron? A vitiman or mineral? Perhaps, chicken soup is good for the child's soul?

[friend]

Actually, after reading about this "vegan" couple, it was apparent they were like no vegans I know. My thought was that they were a bit mental.

I grew up in an area with quite a number of Seventh-day Adventists. Many were vegan. They were the most healthy folks I've ever seen and none of their babies suffered any problems.

Vegan does not equal crazy :-).

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Hello Friend:

I agree with many exceptions. The claims of the Adventist Movement are based on Ellen White's claim to be inspired. Eating vegies will not get anyone into heaven. My second problem with the claims of the Adventist Movement is not limited to that movement.

I, personally, do not care what an adult does. That person will pay his own debt at some point. The Jehovah's Witnesses refuse medical care to their children based on their false doctrine. The Adventist Movement is guilt of the same offence when they deny the child a healthy diet (you decide the meaning of healthy).

When the child is old enough to make their own mistakes, then fine! Let them refuse medical treatment or eat a certain diet or wear long dresses, etc.

Quoting: "Vegan does not equal crazy :-)."
End quote.

Why waste all those perfectly good steaks God created? Now admit it, it is crazy to eat rabbit food when there are perefectly good chickens to eight.

hehehe

[rachelengland]

Though I agree with the idea that children should be left to decide at an age of accountabilty what they should eat(though most would prefer pizza and cookies if left to their own desires)..but if the vegan diet was sooo terrible for children than many would be dying and that is not the case.

These people missed something, somewhere along the lines..I think that denying medical attention as Christian Scientists and many other religious fanatics do is much, much more dangerous than a child not eating meat. If one is following the vegan diet in a structured way all the necessary minerals and vitamins should be in place..R


I am not a vegan btw...can't deny a chicken

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Hello Ms. rachelengland:

Quoting: "can't deny a chicken>"
End quote.

Is that a fried chicken? A broiled chicken? or a baked chicken? or a bbq'd chicken? Were you talking about chicken, like chicken? or Did you mean chicken like chicken?

On the serious side, forcing a child or anyone to follow our religious belief is dead wrong. I don't necessarily see the vegan diet as a religious practice. Hindus do not eat meat on the basis that animals are the highest form of life. You might be bbqing your great aunt Bessy, literally. The Adventist Movement does not eat meat because Ellen White, claiming inspiration, said the vegan diet was commanded in the Bible. I have not worked with the Christian Scientists. I do not know their believe system.

I don't remember anything being mentioned on this couple's religious system. Though, I do stand open to correction.

As I said, if you want to force your child to go to church, do so. But don't force that child to obey your religious practices for your sake. Take the child to church, give them the chance to see Christianity from both sides. They can make their own mind up. The same is true for these other religions. The truth will always prevail. Sorry for bloviating.

[mcmstaff78]

TATM, do you have children?

[rachelengland]

No that is fine...I read somewhere many vegans feel that if Jesus were alive in this day and age He would be a vegetarian..it takes a lot of money to feed cows when the grain used could probably feed the poor-many things they say ATM make sense..

I really liked your last line there about forcing things upon children such as religion..you really should look into the Christian Science thing(I heard Doris Day and Mike Nesmith from the Monkees are both into this-they are dead set against medical intervention-Mary Baker Eddy founded this movement).

We had some Seventh Day adventist in the family..they are a healthy bunch...

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Mr. mcmstaff78:

Yes two.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Ms. rachelengland:

Tom Cruise is probably the best known CS in Hollywood. Mary Baker Eddy had a vision in 1868 (memory?). God showed her the way to health through science. The origin name was the Church of Christ, Science. The group was affiliated with the Church of Christ founded by Alexander Campbell. Now you know everything I know or think I know about it.

The Adventist Movement actually gave us the health club. The health crazy that took place around the turn of the twentieth century was caused by Ellen White. Much of what medical science knows about diet came from that movement. Ellen White founded the Adventist Movement on a vision. She claims God told her the world would come to an end in 1841. After many more dates and many more failures, she changed the vision. Now the religion claims Michael, the archangel, ascended to the throne at the right hand of God. SDA, Evangel Adventist and the Branch Davidian (David Koresh) all deny the deity of Jesus Christ.

[trainedobserver]

"Tom Cruise is probably the best known CS in Hollywood."

Whoops! Tom Cruise is a Scientologist not a Christian Scientist.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Ms. rachelengland

It is my understanding that the two are one and the same . . . Christian Science and Scientology.


As far as Saturday worship goes, I attended a church named Seventh Day Baptist. On the funny side, it was located in Lost Creek, WV. A bad omen?

Quoting: "I don't know- is there a perfect faith to follow..?"
End quote.

Yes! Biblical Christianity.

[rachelengland]

I think they may have some similar beliefs but the founders(hubbard and Eddy) definitely have differences about the origin of man..You better check it out since you seem to enjoy studying cults

Biblical Christianity...so many translate the Bible to fit their own denomination and agenda..so that is a tough one.if I followed Biblical Christianity I would be wearing a long skirt and covering my head..

[trainedobserver]

"It is my understanding that the two are one and the same . . . Christian Science and Scientology."

Well you're wrong. You seem to know about as much about this topic as you do humanism. There is a cure for it though, it is called honest study.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Ms. rachelengland:

I would say you are right. The reason I don't deal with either group is I know nothing about them. You are wrong. Biblical Christianity has nothing to do with wearing long dresses and covering your head. Like many errors introduced into the church, works were a way for the Romans to earn their way into heaven.

Many cyears ago, a Roman priest wrote a thesis on sin and the confessional. The Roman church assigns a given value to each sin, thirteen Hail Marys, for example. Each good work is assigned a value. If in the finally accounting, your good works exceeds your sin debt, you may go direct to heaven. If not, you go to purgatory to earn more points. or You/your family has two possible choices. 1. Pay a priest to pray you out of purgatory or 2. Buy an indulgence from the pope(an indulgence is a get out of hell free card).

Anyway, God does not have a dress code. Allow me to back track for a moment. John Wesley came to Georgia Colony Company Incorporated as primate of the Church of England for the expressed purpose of working out his salvation among the red men(Native Americians). The false doctrine of works based salvation is part of many religions, not just the Roman church.

[trainedobserver]

"As I said in another thread, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. You are acting like a spoiled child."

If you think that I am intimidated by your demonstrated lack of knowledge of subject matter and honesty ... you are delusional. Smoke some more of that crack.

[rachelengland]

"Here is another twist, though off subject. Brattleboro, VT has no ordinance against public nudity. Several elderly people have been spotted in downtown dressed in the all-together" tatm

LOL...it is pretty fuuny some of the old laws that are still in books atm..

On the note of vegans however..meat today I am sure is not as pure in it's substance as it was in the times of Christ..so many hormones being fed to cattle and poultry...anyway-do they have many cows in the middle easthttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

Ms. Rachelengland:

Do they have many cattle in the middle east? Yes, among Hindus cattle are most sacred life form. The Jew is not allowed by law to eat pork, so cattle are the preferred meat source. Muslims still practice animal sacrifices, so cattle are quiet popular in the middle east.

hehehe on the funny side, now that you mention old laws. The state of Mississippi still allows animals to be butched at home. So many Muslims in the U.S. travel to Mississippi to perform their animal sacrifices. Is that funny? or Sick? Eh?

[rachelengland]

TATM...to me it is not very appealinghttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif But then again I am not a muslim..R

[fatherofaking]

So many Muslims in the U.S. travel to Mississippi to perform their animal sacrifices. Is that funny? or Sick? Eh?

where do you get this stuff?

[bana]

I have a close friend who is a vegetarian (not vegan) and is also a minister in the Baptist church.

She gave me an explanation of the Adventist's vegetarian views. It stems from the the story of the fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis (as I don't have access to a bible at the moment, I'll paraphrase). Basically it rests on the commandment that God gave them when they were expelled, in that he told them they could us the animals.

The Adventists read this as "man" was a vegetarian before he sinned and equate eating meat with the results of the original sin.

My pastor friend, believes this interpretation is unscriptual. She is a vegetarian through a lifestyle choice, not due to her Christianity.

[rachelengland]

Well bana of course she thinks it's wrong-she's a Baptist and she certainly isn't going to agree with the "scriptural" ideas of a a Seventh Day Adventist...

But you know what, that idea about Adam and Eve being vegetarians before the fall sounds know stranger to me than any of the other crazy things I have heard about creation...

Go figure.. I wish good health and long life to all!

[rachelengland]

darn-it..I spelled know stranger- when it should of been NO stranger..what the heck is going on with the edit options around here...

[still_small_voice]

This thread inspired me so much I am going to eat a cheesburger tomorrow in celebration.

[bana]

rachelengland,

In Australia, there are two types of Baptist churches, one is your "Independent Baptists" (with a southern US fundamentalist origin,)and the Baptist Union (derived from the UK Baptists) and considered moderate in a similar vein to the Uniting Church of Australia (c.f. United Church of Canada).

My friend is not a Fundamentalist Baptist, but a Baptist Union minister. So she is therefore a member of the moderate main stream of Christianity. (how many fundie Baptists do you know that have female pastors?)

Me. I was baptised as a Methodist, which makes me a member of the Uniting Church of Australia. Although I attend "low" Anglican (ie Epscopalian) and Baptist Union churches as is my wont. When I lived in Canada, I attended Baptist (not independent fundies) and United Church of Canada churches.

BTW, in Australia, "low" Anglican is similar to main stream protestants. "High" Anglican is the "incense, bells and smells" of the original UK Anglican church.

rachelengland, I hope this clarifies this for you.

Brother in Christ,
Bana