William Lane Craig

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">My interest in Apologetics is really peaked right now, I once heard someone say that William Lane Craig was the #1 defender of the Christian Faith anywhere in the world and that Atheists and Islamic apologists refuse to even consider debating him!
Does anyone know anything about Craig, anything about his church background or his theol.ogical viewpoints?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
in HIS grip, stabi</font>

[easeltine (easeltine)]

Stabi,

His website looks good. http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/

[stabidak (stabidak)]

<font color="0000ff">I could not get it to load last night. Thanks
in HIS grip, stabi</font>

[termin8d]

William Lane Craig is a very intelligent man. I would say he is more a philosopher than an apologist.

I myself don't really like the philosophical approach that He takes because I think it can have a tendancy to cause one to read one's own philosophy into scripture rather than allow one's philosophy to be dictated by it.

Anyhow, He is very gifted and has tremendous ability to articulate His points and make strong arguments.

As for debating, He has in fact debated Shabir Ally. I personally am a bigger fan of Dr. James White at Alpha and Omega ministries.

[lema_nal]

Really? I thought you are a fun only of Witness Lee.

[termin8d]

Well, looks like you were mistaken then, weren't you?

[lema_nal]

Well, every member of Local Church is a fun of Witness Lee. You cannot deny that. Then, Local Church teaches that his ministry was the only ministry approved by God. They also teach that every member of Local Church has to reject all the other ministries and completely leave Christianity. If you did not do that, it just means that you disobeyed Local Church leaders.
Though, I think that if you receive not only Local Church ministry, but also Christian ministries, it is good.

[loverofchrist]

lema-nal,

It appears that you cannot receive termin8d on the basis of his faith in Christ, but are chosing to divide yourself from him based on his doctrine.

You lie about the local church and what it believes, and now it appears that you cannot engage in polite conversation with a member of the local church without introducing some comment about what they believe.

Are you actually pursuing termin8d on this forum?

[lema_nal]

loverofchrist, I receive any genuine Christian. However, you and termin8d are not genuine Christians, but members of Local Chruch. Inspite of your constant accusations on me, I have never lied about Local Church. You have never been anable to prove that.
However, what you and termin8d are really doing on this forum is that you are trying to recruit other members of this forum into Local Church. This is why you prefer to hide that you are members of Local Church. You prefer to pretend that you are a member of genuine Christian church in order to recruit Christians.
I have been in Local Church, and I know its activity to recruit Christians. Even when Witness Lee moved to USA in 1962, he mostly recruited Christians, not unbelievers.
I want to warn other members of this forum regarding this tactic of Local Church.
Local Church opposes Christainity. This is not a Christian church.

Those who are interested in more information regarding Local Church including its lawsuits agains Christian apologist can find a lot of information here:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html
Here is posted an open letter to Local Church signed by more than 70 Evangelical sholars and ministry leaders:
http://www.open-letter.org/

[termin8d]

Anton Hein, convicted child molester is the author of Apologetics index, which lema_nal likes to use as a supposedly reliable source.

As for www.open-letter.org (http://www.open-letter.org) these objections have been dealt with in the past. It is a classic case of taking snippets of ministry out of context. To see the response , please visit : http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/index.html

[loverofchrist]

lema_nal,

You claimed above that you have not lied about the "local church," yet you followed that statement up with, "...what you and termin8d are really doing on this forum is that you are trying to recruit other members of this forum into Local Church."

That's a lie.

I am not trying to "recruit" anyone.

You, however, are being dishonest with regard to your motivations here. For nearly every post in this forum that termin8d made, you have followed it with the accusation that he's a cult member trying to recruit others. Clearly you are intentionally pursuing him in order to dirty his character.

I and termin8d are both Christians with knowledge of Christian theology and doctrine outside our association with the "local church." As such, our opinions regarding subjects that exist outside the "local church" are perfectly valid. Our association with any group does not automatically disqualify our argumenent. That's the fallacy of guilt by association, which you have used in other threads in which we were engaged.

So, please, knock it off already, and allow this discussion to continue without further distraction.

[the_rede]

Loverofc-/termin8d have sidetracked another topic into personal attacks and recrimination.

It's a good rule of thumb that people who bandy about accusations of "liar, liar" are usually themselves that. Why haven't s/he been banned for such bullying?

Lema-nal is right, and it is an important comment for this thread: it is well-documented that the Local Church is an abusive, coercive cult much like Scientology. This is important because this discussion board is not a recruiting ground for cults; it is a countercult site.

[termin8d]

The_Rede: Again, if you wish to discuss the problems you have with the doctrines and practices of the local churches, then please do so in the appropriate threads.

This thread is about Dr. William Lane Craig. Do you haveanything you wish to add to the conversation?

[the_rede]

Stop the personal attacks.

You called Lema-nal a liar. That was off-topic and a personal attack. You even went so far as to compare her/him with a "child molester!" I have captured that post with software. And I am attacked for pointing out that disgusting misbehavior and breach of discussion board rules?

Why haven't you been banned?

You compared LN to a child molester!

(Message edited by The Rede on August 17, 2007)

[bluewater2]

Hi termin8d. I noticed that you called Anton Hein a convicted child molester. In your belief system, if he has repented and paid for his sin is it still ok to throw stones?

Thanks.

[termin8d]

Bluewater2: You make a very good point there. If he has truly repented and has had his sin paid for then he is indeed saved.

The_Rede: I never compared Lema_nal to anybody. I simply said that the person He sited as a source was convicted as such.

Anyhow, I officialy retract my comments because I cannot see into the hearts of others, that is God's terrority. So I do apologise for doing so.

[loverofchrist]

Bluwater,

If I may, I's like to just answer from my perspective, and from what I know from persons who have met Mr. Hein.

While I personally believe that we should not hold grudges against any confessed believer for their past sin, and that we should forgive them even as the Lord has forgiven them, I also believe that a thorough clearance of the past and a certain amount of reconciliation should be made (As the Lord leads, of course).

On his website Mr. Hein goes to some length to justify himself and basically say that he was wrongly convicted. However, in clear violation of his probation (Something which he does not mention), Mr. Hein moved out of country. (Ref: http://w3.cultnews.com/archives/000829.html ; http://www.sdsheriff.net/waar/waarDetail.aspx?rowid=AAAH4fAAMAAAAaPAAJ) Since this was never explained by Mr. Hein himself, to my knowledge, his testimony becomes questionable to me.

I know personally someone who met with Anton Hein a few years ago. According to the person I talked with Mr. Hein still has some issues (that are best not discussed here) with remaining sin.

Again, I am in no position to judge the man and what the Lord is personally doing in his life. However, when I hear of such things I begin to question the motivations and veracity of the work. After all, Mr. Hein surely believes that he is doing the Lord a service in his ministry. Yet I would think that Anton Hein the man - his person, his character and even his lifestyle - would serve as an example of the character of his work.

[bluewater2]

I always wonder about those that claim to be christian yet fail to understand what was meant by the "cast the first stone" comment he made. I think that it goes a long way to demonstrate the "christianness" of certain people when they continue to throw stones, even if you have questions about their character. Christians all seem to be a bunch of mud slingers. There is more christian on christian hate here than between any other groups. Quite entertaining, really.

Who determines which sect of christianity is the "real deal"? You? If it is Jesus or god, you should leave that task to him then.

[loverofchrist]

BW2 (Is that acronym okay?),

You are right. Christians can be some of the most critical people of their own kind.

I think it's one of those "sin deals" (That and staying up late at night, tired, and participating in some of the most silly arguments).