Mark 1313

[abiyah]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifGood Evening ALL !

And peace unto you from God, The Father, and His Son, our Lord, Christ Jesus. I wanted to say one thing... I come to FACTnet nearly everyday to share The Truth of God's Word, it is everyones choice whether they choose to believe the truth of God's Word or not, the choice is theirs, and theirs only. I do NOT come here to push my Biblical beliefs on anyone, but to discuss God's Word, as I sincerely enjoy doing so. But I also come here to DEFEND God's Truth as well... and yea.. I know that not all have eyes to see or ears to hear, and I do not push, for I know and understand that Almighy God is IN total and complete control. But what I have learned from coming here to this thread here at FACTnet is that there are those that dream up some awful things regarding The Shepherd's Chapel, and THEY DO LIE ! AND WORSE OFF THAN THAT they LIE about or Heavenly Father's Word. One thing I'll say before you read this post from a so-called Christian by the name of "Nulla" is this... Just as Jesus The Christ preached OPENLY God's Word, so do we, WHY ? Because we are followers of The Only Begotten Son of God Jesus The Christ. Christ did nothing in secret, Nor do we.

Here is the post from " Nulla" at the cultbusters dicussion website...please look and see what this women wrote on March 3, 2006, and I do quote...

NULLA WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------

QUOTE: " Hi Manuforti

I agree with you about Murray. I have visited the factnet threads where his "satanic followers " frequent.

As you said, you have to expose the big poppy to stop the new see from growing.

This guy has lied about his degree, refusues to tell where and when he got his doctorate.
I feel there are more brains behind him writing his talks and setting up his doctrine. He uses old propaganda tactics, answers to nobody and from what I see has little or no contact with "his followers".

So it must all be either this guys madness for power over the masses or a group of them.

Have you noticed on factnet how they gang attack you if you dare put up a good reason to debate their silly theology.

Thanks for the site link... another for me to bookmark in my AM directory.

I THINK THAT gODCHILD AND I HAVE ALSO GAINED
ACCESS TO SOME INTERESTING DATA AND PHOTOS ON SOME MEMBERS WHO OPERATE IN THE AM GANG ON FACTNET and seeing I am back from a trip I will NOW BE DOING SOME HOMEWORK ON THIS destructive cult.

Nulla " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

Well there you have it..... I just want to add to you Ms. Nulla... you know you can always visit the chapel, that is "IF" you are willing to act like a fellow servant of The Lord, as opposed to an enemy and also .... you can always order a Passover or A Fall Festival video and then you can see us, us being those that follow Christ, as we gather in The name of our Lord, Christ Jesus to worship and LEARN God's Word, which is ALL true. Like I said ... we are not some secret chapel, and we share God's Word OPENLY for ALL that wish to know and understand, THUS SAITH THE LORD. Maybe you should put your energy into learning The Word of God rather than trying to scheme up some plan to persecute the Christians from the Shepherd's Chapel, those who love God and His Word, and desire to do His will. The Good Shepherd does protect His sheep and His lambs.... it is just too bad you do not know that they are His and they do serve Him.

Abiyah </font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Good Evening Abiyah,

Here is an excerpt of another post made by nulla in response to an SC student:

Quote:
Re the photos... you better ask admin about them, as they have already been posted, but maybe you do not have full access rights to that part of this site to see them. Kinda like fig tree and their little closed forums away from the public eye.
End Quote

Hi Abiyah, Not quite sure what they think they are going to find?

Yes, anyone is free to visit the chapel. The only reason we don't go to every chapel service is well...it's too far ....lol

And you know what I find funny Abiyah is that they call SC a cult. Funny after all these years he has been teaching on the air, no tv news coverage was ever made about "this cult". Pastor Murray doesn't check up on us, tell us what to believe, order us on what to eat, order what music we should listen to, what movies we can watch, we don't need aproval from him on who we marry. Heck, he has one little ole church! No dorms that cultists live on...lol And the biggie, How does he control those who live thousands of miles away? I mean the majority of his listeners don't live anywhere near him....lol Heck, we don't even live near each other. There is no one to check up on any other member....lol We all live too far apart! LOL Plus there certainly isn't any mind control through the tv, he doesn't know if a memeber is watching or not. Plus you don't have to officially join SC. All that is required is that Jesus accepts us, that's it. Almost all of us only view from the tv for we live too far from the chapel. How in the world does he control members that only view from the tv? Boy, I can see how some think SC is a big dangerous cult....lol lol lol I guess any church which teaches on the air is a cult.

Oh yes, and we are racists because we believe God created ALL the races and said it was very good! Now that one really gets me...lol Or we are racist because we say Jesus came through Judah...well no kidding! God's word states this!Is God a racist because he picked a people for Christ to come through? Or because we say that the 10 tribes are lost and scattered...no kidding! God words states this!</font> Eze 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
<font color="0000ff">All of Israel is suppose to be as numerous as the stars:</font> Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; <font color="0000ff">Well, there are a heck of alot of stars in the universe. LOL

I mean really, God loves all His children, no race of people is better than another. Hmmmm don't see racism in that.

No matter how many try to stop God's truth from coming forth, God's truth will not be stopped. God is in control. His sheep do hear his voice and they do follow, no one can pull them away. We are secure in our Lord, whom we do follow and serve.

Remeber this verse Abiyah and find comfort in it:</font>

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

<font color="0000ff">terluvire</font>

[ezekiel_37]

hi gals and guys.....

I just wanted to say HI!

Peace to you and your families.....

In Messiah's Name

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hello There Ezekiel,

You really are very kind. I pray all is well with you. Peace and God's blessings to your family also.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

In Yahshua's name,

terluvire</font>

[watchman_2]

I think that I will start selling flowers at the airport -- maybe that will make the critics happy.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Watchman!</font>http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[danispeachy]

Hello all! I have figured out the problem!

There are subliminal messages in Pastor Murray's TV broadcasts. The FCC doesn't know so shhhhh!
There are subliminal messages in the tapes you can order from the chapel as well. And the books you can get... well they sprinkle magic dust on them so when you touch it, the subliminal messages mix in with the blood stream. This is all able to be accomplished through the secret society. Soon The Shepherds Chapel will have world domination! What's the secret subliminal message we are being brainwashed you ask? " Dr. Pepper really does taste more like regular Dr. Pepper." Muahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
The plan is working!

Ok I'm done, sorry. I just wanted to tell as a ridiculous a tale as the bashers.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

In all seriousness though...Our Heavenly Father will judge the trouble makers accordingly. Jesus said we will be persecuted for his namesake, who would have thought it would be by other supposed christians though. That type of mantality is to be expected from fanatics though, I mean just look at the Salem Witch Trials.

[abiyah]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

Mark 7:6
" He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. "


Abiyah
</font>

[angie0401]

Well now you've done it, abi! They've changed cultbusters so that you can't view all of the forums until you register. Based on the posting some people do on that site, I am sure it would be fine for me to post the names and nature of the private forums - just as an FYI for anyone who might want to register.

These are the forums that are hidden:

Religious Cults &amp; Sects
Potentially Destructive Religious Cults and Sects. Is your religious organisation guilty of enforcing cultic behaviour or using mind control? Have you yourself experience. Maybe a family member or friend

Organizations
Potentially Destructive Family and other Cultic Relationships. Is someone in your own family, or in a family that you know of, or in any other relationship with you, guilty of enforcing cultic behaviour or using mind control? If you have experienced or you have family or friends who have experienced such orgs you may wish to discuss

Ask Tashi
An area where you can ask Venerable Tashi who is a Buddhist Monk questions related to buddhism. Please be aware that Tashi may take some time to respond as his access to the internet is very limited.

Serpent Seed Debate
This is a closed debate being held onsite between JLOM and a second party yet to be named.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Good Afternoon Angie!

You said Quote:
Well now you've done it, abi! They've changed cultbusters so that you can't view all of the forums until you register.
End Quote

LOL That is too funny. I guess they are worried at what we will find huh? LOL

Now what is godchild going to say? I mean she talks of the figtree being private....lol

First of all the figtree most certainly is not private. The only section which is private is the peace forum. This forum is for heated discussions. And I might add, at times there is absolutely nothing in the peace forum; and when there are topics in there, the number of topics are very few compared to all other forums.

At Cultbusters, there are now quite a few things private, moreso than the figtree ever had...lol

terluvire</font>

[angie0401]

As promised, here's the thread from cultbusters:
PART 1

[quote author=godchild link=topic=21.msg925#msg925 date=1143297050]
(godchild's post - in it's entiretyhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
logic-al, No can can now go to factnet and misinterpret your words. God bless you!

What this cult and others 'do not and cannot understand (because their ears are twiching from the whispers of satan) is that their false doctrines came after the doctrines set up for us in heaven before man ever was and when they come out and tell the followers of the True and Living God that we worship a false god, it is they who should repent and ask forgiveness, and not those of us who do/will continue always to defend our faith, which is in Jesus Christ, and in no man'.

It is they who have insulted and assaulted all that is beautiful, honorable, praiseworthy and good. It is they who will answer, and we need never apologise for exposing them and sharing this truth.


(My response - in it's entiretyhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Sc is not a cult, it never has been and never will be. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it won't make it true. If you don't need to apologize and have nothing to be ashamed of, why hasn't anyone posted the link to the photos &amp; info on the SC students?

We don't say that you are worshipping a false god, you're once again twisting words, not that it is anything new. As far as I know, we're all worshipping the One True God - the God of Abraham, Isaac &amp; Jacob, right?

If you want to discuss "false doctrines" how about this rapture theory. Prior to approximately 1800 it wasn't taught in any of the churches. So for over 1800 years, no one believed in this, but now if you don't believe it, you're classified as cult and/or a heretic. THAT is a dangerous and deceptive doctrine. And no, I didn't get "indoctrinated" into this by Pastor Murray. I have had more than one "mainstream" men of God who feel the same way.

As far as Pastor Murray and the gun, what would you have him do if so maniac comes charging towards him yelling? What would happen if you did that even in a small claims court? I guess he should've just sat there and let someone attack him. I'm sure all of you kind, loving, caring people would just sit there, right? You can't even take it if someone disagrees with one of you.

CONT...)

[danispeachy]

I love it when these people throw around the word "heretic". It's so funny.

Heretic: a person who holds religious beliefs in conflict with the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.

They're not Roman Catholic! LOL I guess heretics can smell their own. LOL

[angie0401]

PART 2

Let's examine the cult tactics and see how many that SC might be guilty of:

http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html

These tactics are usually applied in a group setting by well intentioned but deceived "friends and allies" of the victim. This keeps the victim from putting up the ego defenses we normally maintain in known adversarial situations.

The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.

TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction. - Nope, no hypnosis, no fixation drills, no exact repetition of routine activities (unless you count defending ourselves against these baseless claims)

TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. - Nope again, as most of you like to point out, most of us have never even met Pastor Murray and many of us don't have another SC student in any type of close proximity. And if anyone is getting money from Shepeherd's Chapel I am ticked because they haven't sent me a dime yet!!!

TACTIC 3 **
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed. - Another NO - We don't have a list of permissible topics, we don't have group communication, and since there is no group communications, there is no prohibition on communication.

TACTIC 4 **
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality. - No again. I've never been asked to reevaluate myself in a negative way or reinterpret my life history and accept a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5 **
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment. - Nope - never been subjected to any actions or situations which undermine my confidence in myself or my judgment.

TACTIC 6 **
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques. - No again - never been humiliated, lost a privelege(there aren't any to lose), been isolated, experienced intense guily or anxiety. yada yada

(CONT)

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">It's amazing, we don't fit cult criteria at all, yet they call us a cult....LOL</font>

[danispeachy]

Don't forget...Pastor Murray says...
"You see, whether you agree with me or not is of little concern to me. It's whether or not, as a servant of God, I can drive you into the Word
whereby God can use you for whatever purpose He might have chosen. Then my work is done. I have never insisted that someone believe exactly
as I do because God didn't take a cookie cutter and make us all just alike and say, "You all have the same duty."

Pastor Arnold Murray, #116 Daniel, tape 2, end of side "B"


Certainly doesn't sound like something a cult leader would say.

[angie0401]

TACTIC 7 **
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc. - Absolutely not. Never been told I'll go crazy, become physically ill, get on drugs, go broke, yada yada

So far, SC is 0 of 7. Let's continue:

http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm
Common Properties of Potentially Destructive and Dangerous Cults

The cult is authoritarian in its power structure. **
The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes and roles. There is no appeal outside of his or her system to greater systems of justice. For example, if a school teacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, appeals can be made. In a cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters. - Nope, since we aren't required to "answer" to Pastor Murray or become a member, this can't be true - he doesn't even know who we are!

The cult's leaders tend to be charismatic, determined, and domineering.
They persuade followers to drop their families, jobs, careers, and friends to follow them. They (not the individual) then take over control of their followers' possessions, money, lives. - Never, ever happened. Pastor Murray doesn't have control of anything of mine or any other SC student.

The cult's leaders are self-appointed, messianic persons who claim to have a special mission in life. **
For example, the flying saucer cult leaders claim that people from outer space have commissioned them to lead people to special places to await a space ship.- \i(I might agree with the "special mission in life" part, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Every preacher claims to have a special mission in life - as a matter of fact, my Baptist pastor told us that we ALL have a special mission in life.}

The cult's leaders center the veneration of members upon themselves.
Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and leaders of genuinely altruistic movements keep the veneration of adherents focused on God, abstract principles, and group purposes. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves. - Nope again, Pastor Murray focuses on God's plan for us all &amp; His love for us (John 3:16) and has never asked for devotion or allegiance to him (PM) - only to God.

The cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of the behavior of its members.
Cults are likely to dictate in great detail what members wear, eat, when and where they work, sleep, and bathe-as well as what to believe, think, and say.- No again. I do need help dressing myself, since I have ZERO fashion sense, but my teenage daughter usually does that, not Pastor Murray.

CONT}

[angie0401]

Sorry http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif I feel like godchild with several long, monopolizing posts one right after the other, but I want to be fair and post the whole conversation, since cultbusters requires registration to see the cult discussion (isn't THAT ironic).
The final part of my post:

The cult tends to have a double set of ethics. **
Members are urged to be open and honest within the group, and confess all to the leaders. On the other hand, they are encouraged to deceive and manipulate outsiders or nonmembers. Established religions teach members to be honest and truthful to all, and to abide by one set of ethics.
- Absolutely, positively NOT. The only thing I have heard Pastor Murray say is that we are to spread the Truth, no lies.

The cult has basically only two purposes, recruiting new members and fund-raising.
Established religions and altruistic movements may also recruit and raise funds. However, their sole purpose is not to grow larger; such groups have the goals to better the lives of their members and mankind in general. The cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality these remain mere claims, or gestures. Their focus is always dominated by recruiting new members and fund-raising. - No and no. We are to bring the truth to all people, but it's not up to us to decide who joins the Christian family and who doesn't. I believe the Word makes it plain that a) we are just instruments used by God to further the kingdom and b) we may never know the results of our obedience. This statement seems to apply to all brick &amp; mortar churches, though.

The cult appears to be innovative and exclusive.
The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the only viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. While claiming this, the cult then surreptitiously uses systems of psychological coercion on its members to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.- \i(No again. While Pastor Murray isn't teaching the traditions of men taught in so many churches today, he doesn't claim to be exclusive or innovative, but to returning to the True word. Other's have taught many of the same things he does. SC makes no claim of solving life's problems or the world's ills.}

Here's where it gets interesting: (CONT)

[angie0401]

godchild's responses:
1)

To all scers who I am sure are viewing which is great: There is nothing hid here. It has been explained that there are 'pm's'. If people don't understand that, too freaking bad! It's nobodies business what we email to each other. I know of no private group areas here, as there are on the scer's forums. There are scer's who have their own websites and post their photos. If we want to share this information, it's public domain. We do not post caricatures of Christians or anyone else we have a disagreement with, such as smyrna's website, who by the way posted under another name yesterday. You people are so obvious, it is comical. You are in a paranoid world all your own, and we have no interest in going there. Stop looking for conspiracies around every turn.
I emailed a photo to a friend who posts here of a neo-nazi who is proud of it and calls himself a pastor. His webpage is very blunt about it's rascist affiliation w/badges for 'posse comotatis' and other neo-nazi propoganda. He may not be an scer, but he has certainly learned a lot of his beliefs by listening and reading am and Raymond Capt, and the others you ignoramuses follow, including rascist E. Bullinger. Stop reading the stars and looking for pictures in clouds. You cannot see the light for the forest which you think is full of Jews who are going to screw up your little world. Jews and Christians have better things to do with our time than playing child's games. Once all the evidence is out, which there seems to be oodles of, believe you me, we won't give you boneheads another thought. The words are polite compared to what I would like to call you. Instead I will use the words Jesus did......FOOLS, HYPOCRITS, VIPERS, DECEIVERS, troublemakers, and plainly delusioned and deluded.

If you have legitimate complaints, take them to the Administrator here. You are only making a bigger fool out of yourself. You are not a victim. You are a victimizer!!!.......GROW UP!!!


2)

Administration, Please shut this lunatic person, (ack, pteuuey), Anj, UP! She brings nothing to these boards that shows any kind of love, kindness, or consideration. She lies in the cesspool of her own choice, then expects us to feel anything for her but contempt and revulsion. I do not!!


3)

On further thought, why the heck is anj worried about what pictures anyone has? Many people on sc's discussion board have plastered their photos there, some who it is my guess placed them as 'wishful thinking'. Maybe that's what they're afraid of, that someone knows they are really just some ugly redfaced devils. Personally, I don't need to see photos. They show themselves so well!

[terluvire]

Thanks Angie,

godchild's Christian love just oozes off the pages. (just kidding). But it is sad to see someone with so much unjust hate.

[watchman_2]

Angie,

I enjoyed your long post -- much better than godchild's disjointed undocumented illogical rantings.

Well, I am sorry to see that you do not have privileges to lose. I'm sure that you are jesting. The truth, alone, is privilege enough for me.

Thanks again!

[angie0401]

watchman,
I agree with you, the truth is more than a privilege - it's humbling to even get a glimpse of God's truth... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Every breath I breath is a privilege, every day God allows me to have on this earth to learn and improve is a privilege, every hug from my children and husband is a privilege, being allowed to study (&amp; UNDERSTAND) God's word is the BEST privilege, but we know there are no "special" privileges dispensed by SC and Pastor Murray - all of this comes from God and I will happily count myself a member of His organization.