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johncody

03-29-2006, 06:56 PM

WE MUST STAY VIRGINS
(how to stay holy)

Asking the Father forgiveness by Jesus, staying virgins by Jesus

Upon repentance, asking the Father forgiveness by Jesus- ALL SINS are blotted-out as if they never existed in the first place.

Upon repentance, asking the Father forgiveness by Jesus we are virgins and thus not held to account by the accusers (Satan Lucifer) legal claims against us

You can have an entire army coming against you baring down on you within inches of grabbing hold of you but once you ask the Father forgiveness by Jesus it stops them dead in their tracks and causes them to fade away. They wont touch a virgin, as you have no charges against you.

So sorry to repeat my self so oft but sometimes one has got to repeat and reiterate over and over again to get the point clearly across

This is not a salvation issue in as much as it is a way to stay plugged-into His power.

This (stay holy/stay virgin) series of posts is for those that have asked, volunteered for extra service during the Great tribulation. Satan the accuser does not want you to learn how to effectively fight against him and his forces.

Jesus has promised to never leave you nor forsake you even unto the end of the Age. Jesus is never further from you than your own right hand. He is your shield, your right hand man (lol).

So, stay virgins by repenting as oft as you feel necessary

Five simple words:

Father forgive me by Jesus

We stay holy by continually washing the stain of sin away from us through constant repentance, asking the Father forgiveness by Jesus.

God Bless

PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

david_munson

03-29-2006, 07:17 PM

On the other hand,
I've been married for 29 years.If I was still a virgin after marriage,I would have been divorced by my sweet wife many years ago,LOL.

John,I hope you have a sense of humor cause that's the way I mean that,LOL.
It is true though.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

Follow no man,
Dave

}

johncody

03-29-2006, 08:01 PM

I understand you now

I hope you know that I speak in Spiritual terms

And what is Spirit can become physical and what is physical can become Spiritual

ALL Christians Christ-men should be able to do what Christ did and more

I have been given an awesome gift and power By Christ and He alone. it is to be used during the Great tribulation.

They, The enemies of God are no match for any man, woman or child of the living GOD.

I will always remember my maker my very best friend, It was He who released me from my bonds, His name is Jesus we do everything together

God bless

PEACE

godchild

03-29-2006, 09:00 PM

Sick em, trent!

terluvire

03-29-2006, 09:53 PM

Such awful Christian behavior from one calling themself "godchild"

SAD *sigh*http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif

terluvire

(Message edited by terluvire on March 29, 2006)

david_munson

03-30-2006, 02:15 PM

What aweful behaviour?
She's just have a little fun.

Never ever allow your sense of humor to escape.
You need it in todays world.

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Be being filled with the Holy Spirit today and everyday.

Dave
}

godchild

03-30-2006, 03:20 PM

I will continue to mock the man trentwoodard/john cody/john cody parker/eli because he comes to this thread pretending to love the Lord and yet on countless other threads spews his hate against all but the 'white' race.

When trentwoodard (alleged pastor [go to his website to see how any of you can get a so called ministers license to preach]) was right here on the am/sc threads not two months ago, am/sc followers were separating themselves from him, but now, they are willing to invite him back into their fold (wolves in sheep's clothing) because he agrees with am/sc teachings. The word for this is hypocrisy!
Thank you David, for having the good common sense to see the truth about what I am doing here. Factnet's title stands for Fight Against Coersive Tactics. It's purpose not now nor ever has been for cult members to use this forum as their 'home base'. Certainly, they should not expect that those who agree with the tenets of 'fact' should be quiet and let them run these threads.

(Message edited by godchild on March 30, 2006)

godchild

03-30-2006, 03:34 PM

In fact, let me state here and now: upon using the search tools factnet administration has provided, I have found that many of the am/sc people who come to these threads proclaiming they are followers of Christ, have in fact been posting under other names for YEARS (one over 5,000 posts) on kkk, aryan nations, and the government, military, and other areas of factnet espousing their anti-government, anti-Jew, anti-democracy, anti-black beliefs with a far more fervent voice than they proclaim here. It is very easy to find information, if you know where to look. I am just sorry these foolish, ignorant people refuse or are mentally limited so that they cannot find these things out for themselves. These are definite signs of brainwashing, coersion, group speek, cultic behaviors.

It is my firm belief that factnet serves a very good purpose, and anyone who is not FIRM in their FAITH in God through the Holy Spirit should not come here if they fear these people. I will fear NO EVIL, for HE is with me, even to the end of my life or this world, whichever comes first, praise God!

danispeachy

03-30-2006, 03:49 PM

"The word for this is hypocrisy!"

Actually it's called forgiveness and is something that Jesus expects from us. Anybody who follows Christ knows that. (Matt 18:21)

Apparently you are also ignorant of (Matt 7:3-5)

I don't know what makes you think you are God to know a mans heart and be able to judge them but it matters not because God will deal with you in his own way and in his own time.

johncody

03-30-2006, 04:40 PM

Note:

I will repeat this message wherever godchild slanders and calls me Trent Woodard

My name is: John Cody Parker

(sick) godchild,

is simply showing us her true colors

No child of god would behave the way she does!

Jesus was sooo right when He said they tell on themselves by their behavior, The way they act

Yes, Jesus, WE DO know them by their (poisonous) fruit.

Also, she knows darn well that I am NOT Trent Woodard but she continues calling me Trent because she knows it annoys me.

My name is: John Cody Parker.

I live and was born and raised in Santa Barbara Ca. If you want to call me, my number is Area code 805 967-2732

As you can see by my area code, that I do live in S.B.

As I HAVE EXPLAINED, I change my handle occasionally because this site occasionally fails to recognize the handle Johncody as a member.

So I am apt to change my handle to one of four different handles

They are as follows:

#1. John Parker

#2. ELI

#3. Josey Wales

Or

#4. Johncody

Of which, I am currently using http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

God bless

PEACE

(Message edited by Johncody on March 30, 2006)

david_munson

03-31-2006, 02:47 PM

John,
you stated "No child of god would behave the way she does!"
---
I have to challenge you on that one.
God's people being varied and differant in who they are speak in many ways that are and are not acceptable.

That line of thinking that a child of God never does anything wrong is just not reasonable nor is it reality.

Even after salvation we are still humans that have to struggle with personal sin each and every day.
I have heard so many people say "and you call yourself a Christian," that it makes me ticked.
These people have no idea what being a Christian means if they think that we obtain sinless perfection before our bodies are dead.

Philippians 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

He keeps us because He is the only one who can.
Jude 24.
---
Also,
Godchild is right when she states that this site is for disclosure of cults and aberrant Christian groups.
To post here is to open yourself up to being challenged in what you state your beliefs are.
If that is more than you care to deal with,then you are posting on the wrong forum.

Of course tho,disagreeing is fine and hopefully done with respect and consideration for others but even if it's not done that way,this is still a place of challenge and debate.It may be of help to keep that in mind.

Follow no man,
Dave
}

angie0401

03-31-2006, 03:18 PM

David,

Here are just a few quotes from this poster who continues to harass and belittle anyone who disagrees with her:

"I will continue to mock the man..."
"I am just sorry these foolish, ignorant people refuse or are mentally limited so that they cannot find these things out for themselves."
"If you see some shiny Jew walking around, you'll know it's not really a Jew, after all. Problem solved, and now you can get on with your freaking lives."
"I don't even have to call them liars any longer"
"They are so deep in their cesspool, let them stay there. They have been warned, but prefer satan's way, and lies."
"(Try again, you hate mongers and satan worshippers--Vivian, godchild)"

and those are just from 2 SC threads. YOU saw what she posted at the other forum - are you ok with this?

No Christian is perfect, but we should all be held accountable for our actions, especially the ones done in the name of Christ. I've seen nothing but spite, hate,lies and bitterness out of this one. These posts aren't the exception for her - they are the norm (and I use the term loosely).

David, I have respect for you because, while you may disagree with our beliefs, you do it with respect and consideration. Even though you are a bit irreverent (in a funny way), you can also take what you dish out. Others can't do this and therefore will have no respect from those of us here to engage in respectful discussions.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

johncody

03-31-2006, 04:13 PM

Though He is trained well in the art of conversation

Dave still goes by the Spirit of Error

Satan lucifer can play lovable too

remember?

God bless

PEACE

abiyah

03-31-2006, 05:26 PM

David WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE:"Philippians 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."END
-------------------------------------------------

Good Morning ALL !

David.. I am NOT sure why you quoted these particular verses regarding this. However, I'd like to dicuss them a bit. AND in a way.. they do tie in to what we come here to THIS forum to do... and we SEE what that is in these verses that have you quoted.... for there two thing important things here " TO WILL" and " TO DO ".

"For it is God which worketh in you both TO WILL and TO DO HIS GOOD PLEASURE" = For it is God's Spirit within us that give us the unction "TO WILL" and "TO DO" what we come here to FACTnet "TO DO".... and that is SHARE HIS TRUTH, and IT TAKES WORK. Regardless IF this forum/message board is one of debate and at times it filled up with contention. God is The One who gives us "THE WILL" to come here and "TO DO" that which we are doing; and He gives us "THE WILL" for "HIS GOOD PLEASURE". And it does please God when He SEES His servants trying to do their very best for His names sake, to help those that are lost in darkness, false teachings and traditions of men. And it is being touched by God's Spirit, The Holy Spirit, that we are given "THE WILL" to serve Him, even here at FACTnet.

" WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling " = One works out their own salvation THROUGH Jesus The Christ, The Messiah... God's Anoited One of God; The [Living ] Word of God that became flesh; THE LIVING WORD, "you" work out your own salvation through His Word. You yourself MUST have a willing heart.

Now.. if one continues reading down through the verese you have quoted David, you ALL will SEE and HEAR this as well ! : )

*** Please , CONTINUED BELOW FOR YOU ALL !

abiyah

03-31-2006, 05:40 PM

*** Continued FROM THE ABOVE POST. : )

Philippians 2:14 - 16

" Do all things WITHOUT murmurings and disputings; That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye SHINE AS LIGHTS IN THE WORLD. Holding forth The Word of Life [ that being The Word of God which IS eternal ]; that I may rejoice in The Day of Christ [ The Lord's Day ], that I HAVE NOT run in vain, NEITHER laboured in vain. "

" DO ALL THINGS WITHOUT MURMURINGS AND DISPUTINGS " = This says ALL things... when you have "TO DO" something, when you "WORK", even doing work in His will, epsecially along with other people, just do it.... get it done, and DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. We are to try and find pleasure in ALL THINGS that we do, even that which we "DO" according to His "WILL".

" THAT YE MAY BE BLAMELESS AND HARMLESS, the sons of God, withour rebuke " = That we are BLAMELESS AND HARMLESS, sincere as we represent The Lord as one of His many sons [or daughters]; Now God knows those are that are doing His "WILL" because IT IS through His Spirit, The Holy Spirit, that they know to go and "DO" His "WILL", for it IS HE that puts the "WILL" within us.

" IN THE MIDST OF A CROOKED AND PERVERSE NATION, AMONG WHOM YE SHINE AS LIGHTS IN THE WORLD" = And
there is a distinction between the sons of God, meaning those that "DO" His "WILL" and serve Him and the people which be "CROOKED" & "PERVERSE"... question is ? Can those that read the posts put forth here at FACTnet tell the difference between those that are here "TO DO" His good pleasure according to His "WILL", and those of the crooked and perverse peoples ? Those that serve Christ The Lord to "PLEASE" our Heavenly Father ARE "THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD" in a "CROOKED" & "PERVERSE" world. Hopefully those that can find the distiction between the two will desire to be "THE LIGHT" of the world as you have shown your own self to be, and put away the "CROOKED" & "PERVERSE" ways of this world. Therefore, their will be those that SHALL also be as "THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD" from the example you have set before them.

" Holding forth THE WORD OF LIFE; that I MAY REJOICE in the day of Christ " = The Word of Life IS Eternal Life, there is ONLY ONE LIFE and THAT IS LIFE ETERNALLY with The Lord. The "WORK" that one does for The Lord is rewarded, for your righteous acts make up that fine linen that you will wear in Heaven, as you will receive your incorruptible body [ The spiritual body, never gets old , and feels NO pain ] and an immortal soul [ Not liable to perish in the lake of fire ]. The Word of Life IS ETERNAL LIFE ! God Word SHALL always be, and IT SHALL NEVER CHANGE. And because you were one stuck to God's Word, you will reign with Christ during The Lord's Day, which is 1,000 years to man, but to The Lord is only one day.

*** Please, CONTINUED BELOW

abiyah

03-31-2006, 05:51 PM

*** CONTINUED FROM THE ABOVE POST(S).

THEREFORE..... Here is the reason we rejoice IN the.... " TO WILL" & the " TO DO " His good pleasure.

Philippians 2:17
"Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I JOY, AND REJOICE WITH YOU ALL."

Even though many of us here suffer persecution here at FACTnet, and even though Vivian has done and said the cruel things which she has said; I pray that you ALL count it on joy, because you KNOW that you will be fully rewarded for the "WORK" in which you "DO" by the "WILL" in which He has put within you to plant seeds, to bring forth Truth, to give hope, and to remind those that their is a God, Almighty IN Heaven and there is no other... and HE DOES LOVE EACH AND EVERYONE OF US, and has sent His Son into this world so that none should perish. And IT IS something to "REJOICE" in.... because someone here may see your work and ALSO find that same JOY and FAITH that you have now, which you have brought brought forth to them FROM THE WORD OF GOD, which is THE WORD OF [ ETERNAL ] LIFE. And because you have helped bring someone into the great love and Joy which is found IN Jesus Christ The Lord, YOU WILL HAVE NOT, I REPEAT NOT, " labourered IN VAIN ". So remember, when ye put up with some contention here at FACTnet, and even are pesecuted, lied about, and mocked, well then you count it on joy, because someone may come INTO The Light of the world, which is Christ ! And they also SHALL receive the numerous blessings that come from loving and serving Christ our Lord, fromknwoing and understand His Word, and indeed that is something to rejoice about !

God Bless
Abiyah

watchman_2

03-31-2006, 07:13 PM

Hello David,

Your quote:
Godchild is right when she states that this site is for disclosure of cults and aberrant Christian groups.
To post here is to open yourself up to being challenged in what you state your beliefs are.
If that is more than you care to deal with,then you are posting on the wrong forum. 

I have a huge problem with your statement. There is an underlying premise to that argument. That premise is that some human is so well-versed in the scriptures that this human can declare one group a 'cult' or 'aberrant Christian group'. This has been the role of godchild and many other detractors of SC.

As has been demonstrated by SC students, we are more well-versed in the scriptures than those claiming that SC is a 'cult' or 'aberrant Christian group'. Yet, we have the humility to understand that we are incapable of ever possessing enough knowledge of God's Word to declare others a 'cult' or 'aberrant Christian group'. Such judgment resides solely with the Lord.

The entire premise of Factnet, as you have described it, is a joke if people think that such a forum gives license to declare others cultists and those that disagree should shut up and take it.

Now, if people believe that they were in a cult and wish to share their experience with others, then this forum is appropriate for the use of the word 'cult' or 'aberrant Christian group'.

But, for those of you [godchild] that like to throw the 'cult' word around, BEWARE! We will not be silenced. God's enemies will be made his footstool.

watchman_2

03-31-2006, 07:21 PM

abiyah

03-31-2006, 10:25 PM

Watchman WROTE !
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " But, for those of you [godchild] that like to throw the 'cult' word around, BEWARE! We will not be silenced. God's enemies will be made his footstool. END QUOTE"
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifGood Evening to you Watchman !

I have not seen in awhile... I don't now maybe a week or so, and well I do miss seeing you. GREAT POST ! I'm sorry but it's true... your post above here is very good. And you are SO RIGHT !; we will NOT be silenced.... God's enemies SHALL be made His footstool, and all I can say is this............

" Abiyah reporting for duty ! " LOL !

Its true..... It is my hearts desire "TO DO" God's will for His good pleasure ! And that includes helping to make His enemies His footstool..... so bring it on !

God Bless you my friend & fellow servant IN Christ our Lord, and I pray that your Passover be a blessed one. Enjoy ! : ))

Agape,
Abiyah

johncody

03-31-2006, 10:42 PM

ELI JOHNCODY

Open letter

If you had never seen nor heard of Jesus before- I could explain Him and what to do (to you) before you actually met him?

couldnt I ?

What difference does it make to you if someone did it for me?

Believe me,
you would be most grateful if you were on your knees hands held together head bowed if Jesus Christ happened to walk into your room-compared to if you were not ready

the bishop is someone that came to me in Spirit to help get me ready to recieve my Lord GOD and savior Jesus Christ, bishops/apostles can do that

AND

Angel simply means messenger
and MAN and Angel are interchangeable words.

FOR instance,

Gabriel means: MAN OF GOD.

GOD BLESS

PEACE

danispeachy

04-01-2006, 12:35 AM

"" Abiyah reporting for duty ! " LOL !

Its true..... It is my hearts desire "TO DO" God's will for His good pleasure ! And that includes helping to make His enemies His footstool..... so bring it on ! "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

I dare say she always as her Gospel armor on & even sleeps in it!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

abiyah

04-01-2006, 04:57 PM

Danispeachy WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " I dare say she always as her Gospel armor on & even sleeps in it! " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Morning Dani !

Hmmmmm.... LOL ! Well I eat, drink, and breath God's Word... so THEN The Word of God which is Truth IS The Gospel Armour .... INDEED I sleep in my Gospel Armour, but I DO NOT fall asleep... there is a difference.... THINK SPIRITUAL now !
LOL ! LOL ! Spiritually awake and ready to do spiritual battle.

Agape,
Abiyah

david_munson

04-01-2006, 04:59 PM

johncody,
please take care how you charge the Holy Spirit.
It can be unforgivable to charge God's Spirit with being Satan.

watchman_2,
You can't apply that to me.I never said any one in disagreement should shut up.Quite the contrary,there should be open discourse with disagreement.
Someone mentioned being persecuted here on factnet.I don't buy it.
The reason is that just disagreeing with someone even if it's in a disagreeable way is not persecution.No ones life is at risk here because of what they believe.No ones freedom is at stake.
No one is being tortured here.
If you think this is persecution wait till it really hits and then see the difference.

Greetings Abiyah,
I was pointing out that it is Christ in us that enables us to do His will.Jude 24.

John,
the way you where talking "messenger" it came across as though you where discussing an angelic being.
I still stand by my point on that.
Please don't resort to calling me the Devil's advocate.It's petty and I really think it's immature to do such in a discussion.

You don't know all of the error that you believe as well as I don't know all the error that I need to work out
And yes,we all have areas of error no matter what group we associate with.To state otherwise is arrogant.
That is one reason why we work out our own salvation with trembling and fear.PHil 2:12.
---
"Dave still goes by the Spirit of Error

Satan lucifer can play lovable too

remember?"
---
You are being presumptuous be making such an absurd statement towards me.
I disagree with you without childish and sophomoric name calling,please show me the same courtesy or converse with someone who likes that kind of thing.

Enjoy the day,
Dave

}

ezekiel_37

04-03-2006, 02:30 AM

HI Dave...

johncody,
please take care how you charge the Holy Spirit.
It can be unforgivable to charge God's Spirit with being Satan.

we can see things a few ways....

either John's vision was....

a disception of the devil....
or God sent an angel to teach him....
or it was just a human dream from his own mind....

If it is not the Spirit sending this to John....then he is fooled and isn't 'choosing' the world over God but being fooled.

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to absolutely know who He is and still refuse Him.....

It is God asking someone to work for Him, 100% sure that it is God, and that someone refusing to work for God....

It is God Himself speaking through one of His 'chosen'(Zadok) during the trial of the elect....and refusing to allow this to happen.....that is absolutely unforgivable....

This is written about in the end time teachings of Christ in the Gospels.

It is the ONLY unforgivable sin written of and can only happen when the elect of God are 'delivered up' before the anti-christ.

This is right near the end of the tribulation of the anti-christ.

John...whatever his vision was...is definately not doing this.

PS....i used to have the same problem with the "end bracket tag" at the end of my posts....

I trick the computer....

choose another colour at the end of your post....and then erase the colour tag...all of it....and then enter your name and password.

If you edit after the preview...follow the same instructions at the end of the post again.

That should work...

If it doesn't work....after you preview the posting, go down and erase the end bracket and click somewhere in the middle of the post. Then click your mouse in the username and password....

good luck

Peace
c

watchman_2

04-03-2006, 03:24 AM

David,

I was not referring to you -- just godchild.

My exception to your statement was the underlying premise of what is a 'cult' or 'aberrant Christian group'. Your support of godchild's analysis of the purpose of Factnet inferred that you think it proper to label others 'cults' or 'aberrant Christian groups'.

Your apparent alliance with Apologetic Ministry propaganda [lies]which likewise label groups 'cults' or 'aberrant Christian groups' also gives me the opinion that you agree with godchild.

As far as I am concerned, there is either scriptural and unscriptural theology/practices by churches. All churches will be judged by Christ [Rev. 2 and 3].

arron

04-03-2006, 04:51 AM

hey i havent been a virgin since i got married. i have not had a women since my wife passed away, but i am still not a virgin. i am however a virgin as far as GOD is concerned for HE has made me pure and set me free.

ezekiel_37

04-03-2006, 06:30 AM

cool arron

stay a virgin when it comes to the Lord

He wants us Pure for Him

This is concerning the time of the anti-christ when the world will whore after the false Messiah. The anti-christ fools Christians by his lies.

godchild

04-03-2006, 08:56 PM

Slowly your neo-nazi friend comes out with the other names he has used. First he comes back and says I am John Cody. Recently, he admits he is John Cody Parker. Now on this thread he admits:

johncody
Intermediate Member
Username: johncody

Post Number: 135
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 4:42 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ELI JOHNCODY

Open letter
-----------------------------------------
This guy WANTS people to know when he says something, it comes from him. Shortly, he will be saying trentwoodard, eli, john cody, john cody parker and will still be calling me a liar.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

watchman, abi, terlu, and zeke (and the rest); you may say we don't know you, but 'by your fruits here' we know you very well.

godchild

04-03-2006, 09:13 PM

Right back at you scer's amongst who is jcp,t,e,h,k and other names he uses------

johncody
Intermediate Member
Username: johncody

Post Number: 133
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 10:13 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Though He is trained well in the art of conversation
Dave still goes by the Spirit of Error
Satan lucifer can play lovable too
remember?
-------------------end of quote
Not one word of rebuke by any of his brothers/sisters here.

---------to abi, right back at ya:

Its true..... It is my hearts desire "TO DO" God's will for His good pleasure ! And that includes helping to make His enemies His footstool..... so bring it on !
Signed, Vivian (godchild)

ezekiel_37

04-04-2006, 02:47 AM

why don't you start a thread for each of your enemies and keep all your BS off of the thread.

You are full of nonsence

david_munson

04-04-2006, 02:53 PM

ezekiel_37,
thanks for the suggestion about how to prevent the bracket.
It seems that it's going to be here to stay.I tried the suggestions you gave me and the bracket won,LOL.

It doesn't really bother me.I think it's kind of funny that I'm the only one stuck with it.
---
On another note I was just reading the "We must stay Holy "thread and a verse came to mind,
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

These days are filled with many who are called while most turn away or do not even answer.
It's Christ crucified that we must know above all other knowledge so that others can recieve the freedom of the Good News.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Here we have the central theme which draws all men to God though most reject Him.

Follow no man but Christ Jesus.
Dave
}

abiyah

04-04-2006, 07:08 PM

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " to abi, right back at ya " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but did you say something "mam" ?

Abiyah

(Message edited by admin on April 05, 2006)

david_munson

04-04-2006, 10:35 PM

I was just thinking about what I posted on the
We must stay Holy thread.

"People are not our enemies,Satan is."
-----
I once used gas trying to extinguish a fire.
Guess what happened?
Pr*15:1
Does that make sense to any one?

God's Love is alive,
Dave

}

manu_forti

04-04-2006, 10:42 PM

David,

It never used to but now it does.

arron

04-05-2006, 12:04 AM

so much talk about virgins on here. are you a virgin? better be sure when you say somethng so fanatical. a man once told me he had "sowrn off women" because his wife had left hi. know what he has been married again since then and "shacked"up too some swearing off women.

godchild

04-05-2006, 12:36 AM

abi, the same little nasty tools you like to use are available to everyone. You know, I asked admin not too long ago to take my name off the threads just because of people like you. Now I will have to put in another complaint about you. You just never learn, do you?

How is your sister doing, abi. Does the family still speak to her? I hope she has found happiness now, with those she can trust not to publicly say horrid things about her. But then again, maybe it was HER talking about someone else in the family. Maybe someone could feed her some mushrooms, eh!

ezekiel_37

04-05-2006, 01:08 AM

godchild, you should practice what you preach...

you constantly lie and slander all of us.

you must be proud....can't take it but can dish it out!

you ministry here on these threads about AM and the SCN has won many, many to Christ hasn't it.lol

you are absolutely full of Guile

We have explained our beliefs to you but you refuse to believe them.

We say we are not racist and do not speak racist but you do not believe us.

We say we follow Christ and not a man but you continue to lie and misrepresent us.

Someone did to you what you have done to us and it has lead you on a tangent and really really upset you.

How do you think we feel about things when you constanatly lie and tell false statements about us. We also are offended and discusted each time you call us or our church racist.

Now you result in personally attacking someones family....you have no shame and I definately do not see any Christ in you. I seriously wonder if you are Christian or are still in your warped little cultish world.

I really wish we could help you but I think that you are beyond scriptural correction and do indeed need a one non one with God. Maybe then, maybe you will see and hear.

I wish I was your friend in Christ but you do not allow this to be so.

godchild

04-05-2006, 01:23 AM

Your words do speak rascism. No, I believe in the Holy Bible, not words twisted and changed by rascist men. You say you follow Christ and yet I read one of your websites today that said Jesus is not God. This, my friend, is heresy, and you are in the danger you make such a big point of making others aware of, over and over.

I did not attack anyone's family. When a person comes to these public discussion boards to make claims against someone they should love or at least respect, they must realize people read those things and can make their own judgment, either about the accused, or the reasons of the accusor. Don't lay this at my door.

You do not see Christ in me because you do not worship Christ. And thank you, I have a constant one on one with MY God. How about you? We can never be friends 'in Christ' until you repent. Then you will be welcomed into the body of Christ with open arms and thankful hearts.
Sincerely,
Vivian

terluvire

04-05-2006, 01:41 AM

godchild said:

Quote:
You say you follow Christ and yet I read one of your websites today that said Jesus is not God.
End Quote

Please state specifically where you saw this and who said it. I'm sure it was not from any of us! Jesus is God! Immanuel means "God with us". Jesus is the word and the word became flesh.

You need to discern us by what we say, not some other group! None of us here have said anything racist, nor do we believe or promote racism. God created all races and indeed said it was very good!

We discern your fruit by what you say and do yourself, not by some other group or person. By your words alone we discern your fruit. And in all seriousness, your fruit is not good. All you show is lying, falsehoods and malice. You bring nothing of scripture to these threads. If you want to disprove us...use scripture!

You can certainly dish it out, but you are not very good on the recieving end. Though you attack us constantly, we have not posted any outright lies about you. "We" meaning Myself, Abiyah, Ezekiel, Dani, Watchman, Angie, and Skooter. We have not done this, yet you persist in doing it to us. But I must say...we take it fairly well. AND you want to know why....because we do follow Christ. He gives us the peace we need. So godchild...if you feel the need, go for it. We can take it BUT do not foget....God is watching. He sees what you are doing and He knows when you are spreading falsehoods. I would be careful if I were you.

ezekiel_37

04-05-2006, 02:00 AM

really carefull

danispeachy

04-05-2006, 02:03 AM

Right On Zeke & Terri! She is a deplorable, vial, miserable human. I picture her as the type that burned women at the stake claiming they were witches after pointing at them. She has proven to all of us and anybody else who bothers to put themselves through the misery of reading her posts, that Christ is not with her. I considered telling her to get out of the house as life as a hermit does not suit her, but decided against it thinking of what might be unleashed on the world. She is exactly the type of "Christian" that leads people away from Jesus in annoyance.

How dare you bring up Abi’s family!!! Why don’t you worry about your own? I’m sure they have plenty of their own problems having you as a member!

godchild

04-05-2006, 02:50 AM

1. Trinitarians argue that this verse states that Jesus said he was the “I am” (i.e., the Yahweh of the Old Testament), so he must be God. This is just not the case. Saying “I am” does not make a person God. The man born blind that Jesus healed was not claiming to be God, and he said “I am the man,” and the Greek reads exactly like Jesus’ statement, i.e., “I am.” The fact that the exact same phrase is translated two different ways, one as “I am” and the other as “I am the man,” is one reason it is so hard for the average Christian to get the truth from just reading the Bible as it has been translated into English. Most Bible translators are Trinitarian, and their bias appears in various places in their translation, this being a common one. Paul also used the same phrase of himself when he said that he wished all men were as “I am” (Acts 26:29). Thus, we conclude that saying “I am” did not make Paul, the man born blind or Christ into God. C. K. Barrett writes:

Ego eimi [“I am”] does not identify Jesus with God, but it does draw attention to him in the strongest possible terms. “I am the one—the one you must look at, and listen to, if you would know God.” [1
----------------------
danis, I didn't see you denying this on the other thread, but you were sure trying to distract arron, weren't you. You guys are good, at what you do. I never see you all denying this stuff over at the fig tree either. Go away.

danispeachy

04-05-2006, 03:00 AM

When and if I feel the need to correct someone I will do it in private as to not give you the satisfaction.

terluvire

04-05-2006, 05:04 AM

Dani said Quote:
How dare you bring up Abi’s family!!! Why don’t you worry about your own? I’m sure they have plenty of their own problems having you as a member!
End Quote

Very true. It shows that some people will stoop very low.

1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

terluvire

angie0401

04-05-2006, 06:11 AM

godchild,
You want to talk about families? Ok - why do you spend your time posting THOUSANDS of lies, hate and misrepresentation about CHRISTIANS? Like it or not, we are Christians (Christ followers). YOU should be ministering to your family whom you have admitted are still in the MORMON church. Go witness to them - THEY need to know the true Christ, not us. We all know that Christ is God.. YOUR family doesn't. Or maybe you are just too confused. Why do you talk of your respect for Buddhists and atheist, even invite Muslims to "have an open and frank discussion with us", but can't seem to give us (who are Christians, by the way) an ounce of respect? Why don't YOU go away and listen to those Seventh Day Adventists that you have grown so fond of? We're not going anywhere and you need to get accustomed to the idea. If you can't take it here, I suggest you scurry back over to the other board and hang out with your like-minded buddies. You're safe there - remember? If anyone gets the better of you, they're gone. C-YA http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

By the way - Passover was wonderful! I'm so happy you think so much of the teaching that you're willing to get permission from SC to post copyrighted material. You are really making some great strides!

abiyah

04-05-2006, 12:59 PM

godchild Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " How is your sister doing, abi. Does the family still speak to her? I hope she has found happiness now, with those she can trust not to publicly say horrid things about her. But then again, maybe it was HER talking about someone else in the family. Maybe someone could feed her some mushrooms, eh! " END
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Morning ALL !

LOL ! Vivian.... you do so make me laugh... unless YOU are my sister, WHAT sister ? LOL ! Too funny you are. LOL ! I have not a clue to who or what you are referring to ?.... LOL ! Very funny though and nice try ! LOL ! Why do you continue to lie Vivian ? What is wrong with you ? I just do not understand it at all. : (
I actually feel so sorry for you "mam", truly I do.

Proverbs 15:2-3
" ......But the mouth of fools POURETH OUT FOOLISHNESS. The Eyes of The LORD are IN EVERY PLACE, Beholding "the evil" and the good. "

I have always been taught to respect the elderly, and I thought addressing you in that manner was a way to show respect. With that being said, if you wish for me to not call you Ms. Hadden, then ask me nicely and I SHALL not ! HOWEVER, I did not get that from FACTnet..... come on Viv, THINK ABOUT IT ! Do you honestly think that I go through old posts here at FACTnet to find what you have posted ? LOL ! NOT ! Please Viv.... in all seriousness, what can I learn from you that I have not already found and learned of you by simply reading my Bible.... my Lord made it crystal clear to me that I would know "THEM" by their "fruits". And well that does include you, does it not ? The fruit in which you have produced here at FACTnet I discern to be quit bitter, it is just awful Vivian ! And one CAN NOT eat of it ! Please Vivian, for you to think I have gone back through your posts ? With all due repsect..... don't flatter yourself. Why would I go seeking "bad" fruit ? That's just it......
I wouldn't. LOL !

Anyway it is a beautiful, bright, and sunny morning, A new day, that I'm going to give thanks to God for and enjoy it for all its great worth ! I pray that you would do the same Vivian. Oh yes Vivian... please SEE, READ, UNDERSTAND John 14:9.

John 14:9
" Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? he THAT HATH SEE ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; [ Immanuel= God WITH us Isaiah 7:14] and how sayest thou [then], Shew us The Father ? "

Abiyah

danispeachy

04-05-2006, 01:13 PM

Hello Angie! Hope you had a wonderful Passover. Glad you made it back safe!

Actually, I maybe wrong, maybe I missed something, but I think the info she posted is from a website that 1 of the Figs posted at the Cafe.

Even though we know/or should know that PM nor SCN would publish such a thing, since a student posted it, it must encompass all that SC teaches. Who cares that it was written by an outside source, SCN gets all the credit not the author.

Kind of like how she reasons that when someone posts a scientific article about an eclipse we must study Astrology, not Astronomy.

Kind of like how she reasons that when we say the SCN teaches that God created all people and he said it was good, we're racist.

She reasons that when we say Christ is our Lord and Savior, we're not Christians.

When we bust her out on her own actions, were liars.

Kind of like how we quote scripture, but we don't read the bible.

She has also been calling us Unitarians... when I look them up I find that they are liberal and encourage beliefs based on life experience. They also believe that the Earth should be revered and that homosexuality is not a sin.

SCN in alliance with Unitarians? Now THAT is laughable!

Anybody with 1/2 a brain knows she's full of it... and I'm not talking about the Holy Ghost.

danispeachy

04-05-2006, 01:19 PM

Hiya Abi!

You don't have a sister? LOL

I'm not the least bit suprised.

It is a beautiful day indeed, but everyday is a good day when you have Jesus in your heart.

david_munson

04-05-2006, 02:51 PM

Jesus is sad that this is taking place in His name.
Do any of you think this is directed by the Lord?

Disagree,fine that's not a problem at all unless it breaks down into a flesh fest.Which it has.
I know that no one here (me included of course) is perfect but is it possible to revert to civil communication or does anyone think that this is a productive way to communicate?

To be honest I just don't see the Christ you folks claim to be presenting.
I refuse to point any one out concerning this either because you have to decide for yourself if you are doing justice to the witness that you are presenting.

Ask yourselves one question please.
Who might be reading this and what benefit will they get from it?

Your ball.

With kindness and Love,
Dave

}

david_munson

04-05-2006, 02:54 PM

danispeachy

04-05-2006, 03:35 PM

David,
If it were possible, I'm sure we (the SC’rs) would be willing to have kind and well thought out discussions. We have before but unfortunately we are not allowed to post anything without a certain somebody jumping down our throats calling us names. When we tried turning the other cheek, we got kicked in the head. It’s natural to want to defend ones self from lies circulating about them.
:D

abiyah

04-05-2006, 03:58 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Morning to you David !

Peace unto you and I hope you are having a wonderful morning ! Okay here's the ball then ! : ) LOL ! And with all due respect brother... ask yourself ? Do we go behind every post of Vivians and tell lies, slander, and persecute her ? Or IF she were ever to post The Truth, which IS written IN God's Word, do we follow behind her post and choke The Word of Truth ? We are here in our own thread... "The Shepherd's Chapel Threads"... minding our own business, discussing God's Word and sharing the wisdom, and knowledge of His Truth in which He has given us. We come here to fellowship with one another....peacefully. So then what have we done but defend our Father's Word, as well as ourselves. Now because of godchild's persistant persecution of us.... are we to just take it ? Ask yourself this my friend.... IF you were Vivian.. would you NOT have just left these Sheherd's Chapel threads peacefully ? Leaving those that gather here daily in peace ? Wouldn't you do that on your own WITHOUT being politely asked to leave ? And IF you were asked to leave in a nice manner..... wouldn't you do so ? I think any "true' Christian would; don't you David ? But instead, Vivian continues to go on, and on, and on all day, day after day... with LIES, with FALSE ACCUSATIONS, and with wicked thoughts in which she has brought forth out from her OWN heart. I can tell you this... Jesus Christ my Lord would never want me to be a walking mat for anyone... epsepcially Vivian. There is a controversy here... do you see it not ? A spiritual battle.... Truth vs. lies. Does a spiritual warrior just leave the battle field, or are we NOT to put The Gospel Armour on and IN place to STAND AGAINST the fiery darts of satan ?

Also said in love and in kindness

Abiyah

arron

04-05-2006, 05:43 PM

how many here are virgins? i am now a virgin only because i am free from sin by THE BLOOD OF JESUS but other wise physicly i am not a virgin for i have had a woman who is now with THE LORD.

godchild

04-05-2006, 06:41 PM

I do want to thank factnet administration for editing abi's post of yesterday where she published my name. Today, she is busy throwing all kinds of stuff at me, of which I have no interest in, other than it brings a smile http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifto my face. My 'redeemer' is also my 'defense attorney'. And He is faithful to those who follow Him. Thank you, dear Lord God, Jesus Christ, my Savior and yours, if you are willing to only ask.

ezekiel_37

04-05-2006, 07:36 PM

arron....

the spiritual virgin are the Christians who are going to be married to Christ when He arrives.

the spiritual whore are the Christians who are going to follow the anti-christ when he comes to fool everyone, including most Christians.

abiyah

04-05-2006, 07:36 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifGood Afternoon to you AGAIN Vivian !

LOL ! You are too much.. that lying tongue of yours just won't stop... will it ? Anywhooo Viv.. you were the one who posted your full name on the internet... NOT I. If you prefer not to be addressed by your name, then why do you allow such things for ALL to see ? LOL ! And again... I found it NOT a FACTnet... God knows I LIE NOT ! LOL ! And I'm so thankful He does !

Now again... please, go in peace.
Abiyah

godchild

04-05-2006, 08:47 PM

Dear abi, you have just confirmed what I said; you have been following me around.

Do you think I am lying about contacting admin yesterday and before when I asked them to remove my name and email address? I save all my emails just for sceptics just like you.

Do not call me a liar. You are not looking in a mirror, are you?

abiyah

04-05-2006, 09:22 PM

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " Do you think I am lying about contacting admin yesterday and before when I asked them to remove my name and email address?" END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

Hello There Again Vivian !

Gee..... I do NOT know how many times I have to say that I did not go through your posts, can you imagine how much work and wasted time that would take to go through ALL of your FACTnet posts ? Please ! I mean just look at how many you have ? LOL ! And for what purpose Vivian ? And as far as that goes... contact administration ? For WHAT ? I have done nothing wrong.... yet you continue to accuse me as though I have ? Listen, I could have contacted Adminstation regarding your vile and wicked behavior long, long ago, but I choose not to, for I can handle and deal with my own battles. I do not need to go crying to Administration about you.... I have a feeling they know all to well when it comes down to you Vivian. From day one you have attacked me.... yet, I have done NOTHING to you. Now as I said before... YOU, VIVIAN are the one that put YOUR OWN name on the internet, and NOT I. Why is that so difficult for you to understand ? You know you did, and I need not say to you anymore...."think about it". AND as I asked you before, yet you have not answered, so INDEED I will ask you again "mam"... If you wish NOT for anyone to use your name then why display for ALL to see ? I do NOT see the problem here. And Again, as I said before... IF you ask me nicely... I will respect your wishes and not address you by your last name; Otherwise..... since you have put for ALL to see, I can NOT see the problem you have with me addressing you in a simple and respectful manner. You put your name forth, NOT I !

And then you say to NOT call you a liar ? When I say that you have lied... well I do speak truthfully and I LIE NOT, does the Truth hurt you Vivian ? For you have told numerous lies here about me, as well as many others here.... so many lies and false accusations that I can not even count them. But you see..... the bottom line here is that you DO lie Vivian, and you KNOW that you do, are YOU denying that you are a liar ? Because if you deny that then you again just tell another lie. Does any of this make sense to you Vivian ? I'm sure it does.

Again.... maybe you should now go in peace, then I will need not to address you at ALL, neither by first, nor last name. It is funy how you can slander, and defame the characters of the righteous that gather for Christ's name sake, those that do right; but when I simply address you by your last name... it is a real problem for you... I just do not get it. Maybe it is possible that you intuitively know that what you do and say is UNRIGHTEOUS ! WRONG ! Perhaps Vivian, perhaps... ?

Now good day "mam".

johncody

04-05-2006, 10:35 PM

I was going over it, over and over in my mind, http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

About which verses I should use to get my point across?

I believe the passages found in Revelation are the best choices in considering how to respond to the scoffers that want the others to believe a sneaky angel had crept into my home and tricked me

From: Revelation 1

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Perhaps my maker (and best friend) brought it to my attention (and remembrance) in regards to those certain nay-sayer higher critic judges trying to use the ole: EVIL transformed into Angel of light mediator angel-angle against my witness

The first thing I thought was, gee-wiz! these scoffers hadnt read it either,,, , Just like in the days of old when Jesus asked them; havent you read?

It (the Angel/Bishop messengers) are hidden in plain sight (lol) -But the scriptures lawyers (judges) hadnt really read it or could they understand it then same as today- ? -it remains a mystery to them right up to the moment its too late and they are hopelessly ensnared in snares of their own making

Nothing new under the sun (lol)

As far as I can tell? -I just called the messenger a Bishop because thats what I perceived him to be by the way he was dressed?

I really do not know how else to describe him? but to simply say he is someone living on Earth today and still very much alive today. He (the Bishop/messenger) had simply come to me in Spirit form to help get me ready (prepare me) to see GOD.

--I had never saw him before that day?

BUT
later on, some time after (five or six months after) my walk and talk sit-down (visitation) with the good Shepherd. I did see someone on television that looked just like the Bishop who had come to me before in Spirit form

My Bishop/messenger looked just like pastor Arnold Murray of Shepherds Chapel Church

I mean to say, they could be twins they looked so similar

God bless

PEACE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

arron

04-06-2006, 02:45 AM

zeke... how can true christianss be decieved by the anti christ. true christains will be gone when the antichrist is revealed.

ezekiel_37

04-06-2006, 06:09 AM

no one is going anywhere before the 7th trump arron...

that is what Jesus teaches.

the gathering of souls in the clouds in the air will happen only one time and that is 'for 100% sure' only at the 7th trump.

I like you arron and I don't want you to be one of the Christians that are going to be deceived.

Peace
c

david_munson

04-06-2006, 02:11 PM

abiyah,
are we better than our master?

}

godchild

04-06-2006, 03:14 PM

david, I want to thank you. You have reminded me that reacting to what strangers say about us personally is not what we Christians need to do.
It is evidenced here (that it serves no good purpose).

I will however, respond to doctrines that I believe are false according to the Holy Bible. Being given the right to express ones beliefs is a good thing. But it does not give me the right (or anyone else) to share doctrines without it coming from the Holy Bible, else it is supposition and theory, no matter how educated or not the person is who is sharing it, and no matter how often they proclaim they received it from the Holy Spirit, a vision, or an angel.

Shouldn't we all see a flag come up when a man/woman claims to have revelations (new or hidden meanings in the Word we have already received from the witnesses who wrote it): Does he or doesn't he, and how do we test that? Doesn't it make sense to first find out about the man/woman? After all, history shows that many men/woman have spoken in error and yet convinced millions. Could the person have their own agenda and not what they claim, which in the case of the Holy Bible, changing or adding to the given words (to give it credence), these additions being totally false and not God-led? When Constantine walked his troops (who were on horseback) through the water, then pronounced they were now (baptized) Christians, was he correct, and did he have the 'God-given' right to do so? Was this Biblical? When Hitler wanted to eradicate the Jews and 'friends of Jews' while claiming it as a holy war on behalf of God's people, was he correct? Was that a God-given right or was it by using the Word of God for his own agenda? During the inquisition where millions were murdered and/or tortured in the name of a church claiming to be God-given and from His Holy Word, was she correct, or did she have her own agenda? Were the Salem witch-hunts inspired by God's Word?
Should we make decisions because of our loyalty to a country, a man, a system we were brought up in, or because of our own personal experience; or should we make them because of a belief in a loving God who gave us His Word and asks that we trust it, without adding to or taking away from it? If we change the foundation of our faith, can it stand? Can there be 'just a little' or a lot of change? Should there be any change? If we say yes, are we not telling God He hasn't given us enough? Can we take away some of the Word? Should we not then take away all of it, for how can any of it be trusted? Revelation 22: (NKJV)18:20 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone (shall add,KJV)adds to these things, God will (shall, KJV) add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone (shall take, KJV)takes aways the words from the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He who (which, KJV) testifies of this book says, Surely I am coming (come, KJV) quickly."Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen

(Message edited by godchild on April 06, 2006)

godchild

04-06-2006, 04:05 PM

Jesus spoke about separating the 'sheep' from the 'goats'. They both believe in Jesus [even satan does](but when tending these animals, they usually have to be separated. A sheep will follow meekly, but a goat butts: but, he said this. But, I heard. But, maybe, or if or when.) Jesus said, "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, and the goats on his left." To the sheep on His right hand (hand signifies the works or actions we take)Matt.25:34 "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me."

vs. 41-46 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me; you cursed, (you sons of satan meaning followers of) into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked, and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me."
vs. 45: "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me. And these will go away into everlasting judgment, but the righteous into eternal life."

When we teach people they are inferior, because of their birthplace, heritage, or blood, or their station in life, and should be warned about or stayed away from, are we following Jesus' words? Do we believe what He has told us in His Word? Or do we change 'just a few' of those words, or even all of them?

Who is it that Jesus DOES tell us to stay away from? Who did He warn us about?

Romans 9:7 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly, not! For He says to Moses, "I (not us, but Him) will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I (not us) will have compassion on. So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
No one has worshipped as they should (Romans 3:23). Mere external righteousness does not please God.

On the one hand, Gentiles did not pursue a right relationship with their Creator, so they had been given over to all kinds of evil.

On the other hand, the Jews, through external obedience to the Law and their traditions were trying to justify themselves before God.

Both have failed. Jesus is the only one who can stand before a glorious God; He is the only one who is truly righteous. He has offered us a way out of our slavery to sin. (4:5) The Lord forgives us and declares us righteous because of our identification by faith with the righteousness of His Son. Now we can do God's will. Did Jesus say, "Feed my goats"?

Which parts of these scriptures should we add to or take away from?

terluvire

04-06-2006, 04:23 PM

The rapture teaching is a "new revelation"! This teaching did not come into existence until the 1800's. Jesus never taught, the disciples never taught it, and God's entire word never, never taught it. If anything...God is against this kind of teaching:

Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Paul never taught the rapture either:

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jesus never taught it:

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The Gospel Armor is prepare us for battle, not to fly away from it.

danispeachy

04-06-2006, 05:02 PM

Great Post Terri!

Jesus didn't waste time giving us a puzzle to put together, he told us straight out what will occur in the end times. I totally, 100%, no doubt about it, believe Jesus, after all he would never lie to us. He even warned us about those who would try to decieve us. Boy was he right on. 1800 yrs later poof some lady has a dream and all of a sudden Jesus's words are deemed by some to be untrue.

Just a small addition...

Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

If the elect fly away with Jesus why are the days shortened for their sake? Easy, they didn't fly away. they are right here and ready to be faithful to the Lord no matter the cost!

terluvire

04-06-2006, 05:28 PM

HI Dani

You said Quote:
Just a small addition...

Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
End Quote

You're right! If the elect fly away with Jesus, why would the days (tribulation days) be shortened for their sake? Easy, they don't fly away. They are right here and ready to be faithful to the Lord no matter the cost!

Common sense goes aloooong way! God gave us common sense and he expects us to use it. If all Chrisians are to be gone during the tribulation, then why did Jesus forewarn us?, why were the days shortened (the tribulation days) for the elect's sake?, why was the book of Revelation even written?

Some will say that all information was given for those who are "left behind". This makes absolutely no sense. Why would people, at that time, even read God's word? First off, non-Christins didn't read it in the first place, not really...So why would they read it during the time of the antichrist? Secondly, if they think Christ is here, why would they feel the need to read God's word. They will think the "living Word" is here!

The book of Revelation is meant to be understood by all! It is about the end times. If Jesus took the time to tell us, there must be a reason. He will not give out information which we don't need. Christians are going through the tribulation. Chrisians are to be soldiers for the Lord, are they not?

There is no rapture. God's word never stated it, Jesus never stated it and the Apostles never stated it. The rapture is made up by man's imagination.

The "rapture" is the new teaching!

angie0401

04-06-2006, 05:33 PM

Well said, terl! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
A simple search on the rapture theory will show [anyone who seeks truth with an open mind] that it (the rapture theory) was virtually unheard of before the early 1800s. THAT'S what I would call a NEW revelation and a NEW teaching. Definitely not what was taught by Jesus, the apostles or any of the early church - nothing until the last 200 years or so.

arron

04-06-2006, 05:43 PM

zeke ... dont worry y salvation is secure in JESUS .. i will be gone when JESUS comes for me for i will go with HIM. and i am not deceived neither will i be when HE comes.

watchman_2

04-06-2006, 05:50 PM

Great posts terluvire, ezekiel, and angie!

I'm sure that it is too difficult for the others to give up their 'rapture' theory for Jesus' simple truth. It is far better [for them] to hang onto that tradition of man [that makes void the Word of Truth], save face since they have been rapturists for awhile, and deny the scriptures.

What can we say about those that have been shown the truth, yet deny it for their comfy little 'rapture' theory? Well, we know that Christ admonishes them severely. But, I'm sure that they don't care -- because they think they won't be here.

How sad it is for these gutless fake Christians. They would rather face the wrath of Christ than to face a little humility in the flesh for having followed false theology.

arron

04-06-2006, 05:58 PM

i will be raptured one day hallelujah, glory to GOD. enough said on this issue

angie0401

04-06-2006, 06:07 PM

watchman,
I don't know that they are all fake Christians. You have to admit, if you don't understand everything about the tribulation, it can be a scary thought. It is much more comforting to believe that you'll be watching all the action from the comfort of heaven... Maybe some of them are just scared at the prospect.. Maybe it's not about saving face for all of them. You are right, though - they should accept Jesus' truth rather than man's traditions...

I pray that all who seek the Truth will not let those who only seek to sew discord and confusion succeed in diverting them from their search... (not you watchman - I think we all know who I am talking about).

danispeachy

04-06-2006, 06:26 PM

I don't think they will necessarily be deceived...We have warned them; we have shown them scripture warning them. If the AC comes in their lifetime, the seeds may grow pretty quick once they realize they didn't fly away. All hope is not lost.

terluvire

04-06-2006, 06:47 PM

Good Day Angie!

You said Quote:
You have to admit, if you don't understand everything about the tribulation, it can be a scary thought.
End Quote

That is very very true! When growing up, I was told absolute horror stories concerning the tribulation! I mean awful awful things! When I was 7 years old, I remember thinking, let this happen after I'm already dead! But I also thought that if I had to die because I wouldn't worship the ac, then I would die for the Lord. I knew in my heart I would never worship the ac even to the point of death.

Then I was told about the rapture, but I didn't buy it. AND I was quite sad to think we might not be here at that time like the 144,000 were going to be here. Plus I didn't remember Christ ever saying he was returning twice. So I didn't neccessarily believe in the rapture but the stories of the tribulation held so much fear for me.

Once I understood, through God's word, that there is no rapture and there is nothing to fear, that God would be with us every step of the way, all fear left! And once I understood what would be happening and why, that made all the difference in the world. I was eletated to find out, in God's word, that we would be here just like the 144,000!!!! And I do pray I am able to see these things come to pass in my lifetime! How awesome it will be, to see the working of God!

I am most certainly looking forward to serving Jesus!

terluvire

04-06-2006, 06:57 PM

Good Aftenoon Dani!

You said Quote:
I don't think they will necessarily be deceived...We have warned them; we have shown them scripture warning them. If the AC comes in their lifetime, the seeds may grow pretty quick once they realize they didn't fly away. All hope is not lost.
End Quote

I believe the same. The seeds which are planted now, I believe will quickly sprout when they see God's word come to pass. Many Many eyes will be opened during that time. Many will come out of Babylon.

Agape,

terluvire

johncody

04-06-2006, 07:24 PM

how can true christianss be decieved by the anti christ. true christains will be gone when the antichrist is revealed

I hardly ever use the term true-christians,
it just reeks of elite snobbery.

I think the term Antichristian would be better put. For antichrist means instead of Christ or ANOTHER Christ ie someone just pretending or playing jesus. There is one Body of Christ one Spirit of Christ ONE Jesus Christ and those in Him are one with Him.

We are in Him and He is in us.

The dead in Christ are very much alive with the GOD of the living. For Jesus is the resurrection and the life source.

AND

Where did you learn how to spell?

I suggest you try using a word program. -You would be taken far more seriously if you came across with proper spelling. I, myself, am a terrible writer and speller but a WORD program makes a world of difference.

Just a friendly piece of advise.

Oh, and the KINGDOM COMES-to Earth not the other way around but with what they teach in most churches today I am not too surprised they do everything backwards and upside-down.

When does the Kingdom come?

The Kingdom comes at the Seventh trump with the LORD of lords and KING of kings (Jesus Christ) leading the way on a White horse. His armies of Heaven (of Saints) following their LORD KING on their white horses, or better put, on white vehicles

White means purity,

and the war those on the white vehicles will wage against Satan-antichrist (the copycat christ) playing sweet jesus AND his forces will be done in just righteousness in all purity.

Does GOD need a vehicle?

NO -but His Throne does and its a heavy rascal (lol). One usually must be sitting upon his throne or bench-seat to exercise Judgment

Am I saying the Saints coming with Jesus Christ have thrones too?

Well, lets have a look in GOD s Word http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

Thrones Plural

Old Testament

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.

Psa 122:5 For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.

New Testament

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

God bless

PEACE

watchman_2

04-06-2006, 09:21 PM

angie,

There are many who have been taught the false 'rapture' theory and have never been exposed to the truth. Of course, God does not hold these souls responsible. In fact, God takes them away from the false teachers [Eze. 13:18-23]. However, God does hold those that teach/preach that false theology accountable.

My point is against fools like arron. Arron has had the truth taught to him and he has rejected it. Certainly, Christ would hold him accountable. It is these people that I direct my statements toward.

terluvire

04-06-2006, 09:28 PM

Good Day Everyone!

Arron you said Quote:
true christains will be gone when the antichrist is revealed.
End Quote

Not so my friend. Read what Paul, a chosen vessel of the Lord's, had to say about this:

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

You said true Christians will be gone when the antichrist is revealed. God's word does not state that! Paul states very different. He says, through our Father's word, that the Lord's day will not come to pass until there be a falling away first, then the son of perdition is revealed. The Lord does not return before these things. Again read:

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

This is straight from our Father's word, not man's.

arron

04-06-2006, 11:38 PM

ter. the falling away is even now begining whenJESUS comes and get HIS CHURCH the antichrist will be revealed. for he cant come till THE CHURCH is gone, enough said

johncody

04-07-2006, 01:06 AM

Tribulation of the latter days

Deu 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

EMMRDIANTLY AFTER THE TRIBULATION

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

THEN SHALL APPEAR

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

From the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

TO COME OUT of something

Means

They were once in it http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

God bless

PEACE

terluvire

04-07-2006, 01:58 AM

In all due respect Arron, Scripture points to Jesus returning AFTER the tribulation, not before it. And as Johncody pointed out...
Quote:

From the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

TO COME OUT of something

Means

They were once in it
End Quote

All on earth at that time are going through the tribulation. But I do say this in all sincerity...there is nothing to fear. The antichrist (satan) will be coming in peacefully, although a false peace:

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

He destroys many by this false peace because many will believe him to be Christ. We are talking about souls here. It is dangerous to commit idolatry. We are to remain virgins...pure for our true husband which is Jesus. But instead people will be worshipping satan!!! This is how satan destroys people... through his false peace.

satan will be holding the world's largest revival ever! The whole world will be worshipping him, for they truly will believe he is Christ returned.

And I do not believe satan will be killing off God's elect at that time. It's kind of hard to convince people you are Jesus if you are killing people. Instead he will be trying to convert the elect...those who won't worship him. At that time though, when the elect are delivered up to satan, God will speak through them just as He did on Pentecost day:

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Every person will hear God's truth in their own language without an interpreter. That is the evidence of the Holy Spirit.

Cont.....

terluvire

04-07-2006, 01:59 AM

***** Continued form above******

God will do the same, as on Pentecost day, when satan is here playing Christ:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

AND

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

When you read further in Mark 13, it is after all these things when Christ returns:

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Agape,

terluvire

ezekiel_37

04-07-2006, 03:06 AM

Arron... I like you as I said before.

All of these good people have given you lots of scripture showing you that ALL are here when the anti-christ is here.

You keep saying no...

can you prove with scripture your belief?

david_munson

04-07-2006, 02:27 PM

Some serious distinctions in Christ's coming.
Rapture vs Glorious appearing.
R1.Christ comes in the air for His own.
G1.Christ comes in the air with His own
R2.Rapture/translation of all Christians.
G2.No one translated.
R3.Christians taken to the Father's house
G3.Resurrected Saints do not see Father's house.
R4.No judgement on earth at rapture.
G4.Christ judges inhabitants of earth.
R5.Church taken to heaven at rapture.
G5.Christ sets up His kingdom on earth.
R6.Rapture imminent/could happen any moment.
G6.Glorious appearing cannot happen for at least seven years.
R7.No signs for rapture
G7.Many signs for Christ's physical coming.
R8.For believers only.
G8.affects all humanity.
R9.Time of joy.
G9.Time of mourning.
R10.No mention of Satan.
G10.Satan bound in abyss for 1000 years.
R11.only His own see Him.
G11.every eye will see Him.
R=rapture
G=Glorious appearing

}

abiyah

04-07-2006, 02:51 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Morning to you David !

Thank you for the above post ! : ) Please help.... As I welcome any edification that you may be able to give to me, please show me where I can find the word "rapture" in my KJV Bible. Also I'd like to know and understand how the word "rapture " along with its meaning originally appeared in the manuscripts, what I mean is the Hebrew and Greek words so that I'm clear. And please, if you will help me with one more thing....Please explain to me what The LORD meaneth when He said " I am AGAINST those who TEACH My children to "fly" to save their souls " ? And it would be greeeat if you would please document where I can find this written in God's Word that He is AGAINST those who fly to save their souls.

Thank you so much for all your help with understanding my Father's Word, and blessings unto you !

Abiyah

david_munson

04-07-2006, 10:12 PM

What do you think planes are for?

}

abiyah

04-08-2006, 12:44 AM

David Munson WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " What do you think planes are for?" END
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Evening to you David !

And thank you for helping me with my questions.... another question coming at you... LOL ! If that is alright by you my friend ? You asked what I think planes are for... well I think planes are simply a very convenient form of present day transporation. However, people do not fly in them to save their souls... Did you think that is what The LORD meant by that ? Or do you jest, for my questions to you are serious... clearly you think I am in error so please help and enlighten me to The Truth of God's Word. This is serious to me my friend and brother IN Christ.

Here IT IS WRITTEN, but David what does The LORD meaneth by this ?

Ezekiel 13:2
" Son of man, prophesy AGAINST THE PROPHETS
[ those false teachers/preachers of The LORD's WORD ] of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy OUT OF THEIR OWN HEARTS, HEAR ye The Word of The LORD; "

Ezekiel 13:7
" Have ye NOT SEEN A VAIN VISION, and have ye NOT SPOKEN LYING DIVINATION, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; ALBEIT I HAVE NOT SPOKEN [IT]? "

Please tell me about Miss Margret McDonald and did she not have a "VISION" of the rapture in 1830 ?, in which she claims she received her vision from The LORD...right ? Can you give me any insight on this ? And does it apply to the above verse ?

Ezekiel 13:20
" Wherefore thus saith The Lord GOD; Behold, I am "AGAINST" your pillows, wherewith ye there HUNT THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM FLY, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, EVEN THE SOULS THAT YE HUNT TO MAKE THEM FLY. "

Help me to understand this David... In the "rapture" do I fly to meet Christ in he air and because I fly to Him in the clouds is my soul saved because I will be raptured ? Accroding to this verse in which I have quoted directly from the Word of God.... I was thinking that The LORD is AGIANST it ? Help me to understand better..... this is important right or else I would get left behind ? Is that correct.... for do I understand the rapture ? Amd well to be honest with you David I just do NOT get it is all ? Not AT ALL. I also have been wondering IT IS WRITTEN that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW when Christ returns at the furthest Trump out, and I doknow there are only seven. During the rapture will EVERY KNEE BOW ? And ho can they If some are in the air flying to Christ while others are still on the earth ? Am I missing something here ? Thanks for any clarification you can give to me along with Scripture to document..... because I do LOVE The Truth of God's Word. Oh yea..... where again do I find the that word "rapture" in The Bible ? Just so I can see for myself. Thank you so much!

Abiyah

david_munson

04-08-2006, 12:40 PM

The word "rapture" although not appearing in scripture was termed to describe the translation of the remaining saints that will be "caught up" in the air with the resurrected dead in Christ to be with the Lord for ever.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This does not mention the Lord's feet touching the mount of olives as in later verses describing His earthly return.Nor does it deal with the two edged sword proceeding from His mouth in the last battle on the "day of the Lord."

The dream that you mention is about a hundred years after the rapture was preached by a man who's name I will have to look up later.

There are instances of a type of "rapture" or translation if you will in the OLd testament.
Enoch was taken up.Elijah was taken up.Noah was placed above the flood not in it but protected by the ark which floated above the judgement of the flood.
Lot was removed from Sodom before it was destroyed.
We are not the objects of God's wrath.He is coming in judgement when His feet touch the mount on the "day of the Lord."

The word rapture is used interchangably with "caught up."

I do not worry about whether I am here or have been taken up.(pre,mid,or post)
It really doesn't matter because if we stay or if we go it is the Lord who is our defence.

Psalms 27:1 The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

psalm 118:8

}

watchman_2

04-08-2006, 05:53 PM

David,

Under your interpretation the Lord never sets foot on earth again. See 1 Thes. 4:17. ". . . and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Since you declared yourself that Christ returns to Earth, then we know that 1 Thes. 4:17 is not to be translated literally.

abiyah

04-08-2006, 08:17 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Afternoon to you David !

Peace unto you; And thankyou again for your response to my question, I appreciate it, and I do know that you really want to help me. I want to ask you another thing... one more thing. Will you please review this post that I had done for Wayfaring Stranger awhile back. If you would please read and then respond as I sure would appreciate you thoughts on it. Thank you so very much. : ) Its a bit lengthly, but please bear with me, I kept it as short as I could.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifThe so-called rapture theory.... II Thessalonians Chapter 2, Paul is writing this second epistle to the Thessalonians regarding the RETURN of Jesus Christ. Lets look at it TOGETHER, and SEE in this second chapter where Paul tells us anything about flying away before the return of Christ... Okay ?

II Thessalonians Chapter 2
*** The SUBJECT of This Second chapter is The Return of Christ.

II Thessalonians 2:1
" Now we beseech you, brethren BY THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND BY GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM. "

~ Paul is talking about gathering back to Christ !

II Thessalonian 2:2
" That ye ne NOT soon shaken in mind, or to be troubled, NEITHER BY spirit, NOR BY word, NOR BT LETTER AS FROM US, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

~ So what he is saying is don't let any spirit, nor word such as the rapture, or even letter from us.... meaning his first epistle chapter 4, don't let it shake you up that the day of Christ is at hand !

II Thessalonians 2:3
" LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS; FOR THAT DAY [ The Lord's Day, His Return ] SHALL NOT
[ I repeat.. SHALL NOT !] COME, EXCEPT there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST [ Paul is saying this MUST happen first BEFORE Christ's return ], and that "man"of sin be revealed THE SON OF PERDITION. "

~ You will find that the son of perdition, was called the king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28:1-19 [ READ IT !]; Tyrus means rock... but he is NOT our Rock, our Rock is Christ.. Immoveable Rock. It is ANOTHER name for satan, the king of Tyrus. It is important for understanding who the son of perdition is to read this 28th chapter, we see in that 28th Chapter that he was in The Garden of Eden... we see even before he was in The Garden of Eden he was covered with precious stones, and he was an "anointed cherub", he was one of those cherubuims that protected the Mercy Seat, and he was created perfect, and full of beauty & WISDOM, until INIQUITY was found in him. We see in this 28th Chapter of Ezekiel in verses 18 & 19, that God has sentenced him to perish, therefore he is the son of perdidtion, he is a dead man walking. God is going to allow him to pretend he is Jesus to test those to see IF they have read His Word, or believed the doctrines of man.

~ In The Book of Revelation we see that satans name in the Greek is Apollyon meaning destroyer, however the base root of this word is "Appolumi" and it means TO FULLY DESTROY, TO PERISH. Making him the son of perdition.

*** Continued below please David

abiyah

04-08-2006, 08:18 PM

II Thessalonians 2:4
" Who OPPESETH AND EXAULETH himself ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, [ Read Mark 13:14; Daniel 9:27; Daniel 11:37 & 45; Ezekiel 28:2] or worshipped ; SO THAT he as GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD [ Mount Zion ] SHEWING himself THAT he IS GOD. [ Revelation 12:9-12 ].

~ So here we SEE that satan, the son of perdition SHALL come to earth.. NOT JUST his evil spirit, but he himself, shall be booted out of Heaven by Michael [ Revelation 12:7-8] the arch angel to earth to play the role of false christ, spurious messiah, instead of christ or anti-christ, the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. This MUST happen first BEFORE the return of Christ, satan must sit in Mount Zion claiming to be Christ! Paul just told you that.

II Thessalonians 2:5
" REMEMBER ye NOT, that when I was yet with you, I told you THSES THINGS ? "

~ Paul is saying.... remember when I was there with you ?, I told you these things, that the false christ must COME FIRST claiming to be Jesus Christ, and there SHALL be a great falling away because most the world will believe him to be Jesus Christ [ Revelation 13:13-14].

II Thessalonians 2:6
" And NOW YE KNOW what withholdeth that he [the false christ] might be revealed in his time. "

*** CONTIUNED BELOW !

abiyah

04-08-2006, 08:19 PM

*** CONTINUED FROM above.....

II Thessalonians 2:7
" For the MYSTERY [ It's no longer a mystery to you, if you understand that which IS written here and what Paul is warning you about.] of INIQUITY doth already work ; Only he who NOW letteth will let, UNTIL he be TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. "

~ Michael is holding satan, he will cast satan out to the earth along with his angels, thus taking him out of the way. Revelation 12:7-8

II Thessaloinians 2:8
" AND THEN SHALL THE WICKED [one] BE REVEALED; [ Now Listen very carefully here...] WHOM THE LORD SHALL CONSUME WITH THE SPIRIT OF HIS MOUTH [ His Word, this will happen when God's elect are delivered up before him to STAND AGAINST him for Christ sake, The Holy Spirit SHALL speak through them in every language of the world all at one time, their will be no need for a interpretor, it will be the same pentecostal tongue spoken in Acts chapter 2; NOW PLEASE SEE Mark 13:11; Matthew 24:14; and Luke 21:13-15 ];
AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING. [ Note that Jesus Christ comes "AFTER" the Wicked [one] is revealed by the Holy Spirit speaking through God's elect.

II Thessalonians 2:9
" Even Him [ that being Christ], WHOSE COMING IS AFTER [ I repeat AFTER !] the WORKING OF SATAN with ALL POWER and SIGNS and LYING WONDERS. "

~ It IS WRITTEN.. in Revelation 13:13, that he SHALL do GREAT WONDERS.. plural even making lightening come down from Heaven. Check it out for yourselves... please.

*** Continued below.....

abiyah

04-08-2006, 08:21 PM

*** CONTINUED FROM above......

II Thessalonians 2:10
" WITH ALL DECEIVABLENESS [Revelation 13:14] OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in them that perish; because they received "NOT" THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved. "

II Thessalonians 2:11
" AND for this cause God SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A "LIE"; "

~ They are going to believe that is Jesus Christ, they are going to wander after him.. and believe that he will fly them out of here to save their souls.

II Thessalonians 2:12
" That they all might be damned who BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. "

~ They had pleasure in following the false christ, they had pleasure in believing mans doctrines more than God's Word. This is very sad, and weighs very heavy on my heart, for this is what so many of God's children have been taught, they have been told they were gonna fly away.... they were told that christ could come at any moment, they were told that Christ could return tomarrow, and well that is just not so... it is the LIE. For Paul is telling us that FIRST satan must appear on Mount Zion.. claiming to be God, and then their SHALL BE a "falling away"... this is the great apostacy... those that fall away FROM the True Jesus Christ, TO THE the instead of christ or anti-christ. They have been told pray that you are the first one taken... you know how two are at the mill, or two are in the bed... well....the first one taken, is taken into deception to the false christ. And there you have it... straight from the Word of God, as it was given to us by Paul, a chosen vessel for Jesus Christ, how the first tribulation SHALL be.. it is the tribulation of the anti-christ, Our Lord, Jesus Christ DOES NOT come until AFTER THIS tribulation, then shall you see the Son of Man coming, He shall destroy the wicked [one] with the brightness of His coming. His wrath SHALL be poured out upon those that [spiritually] whored after the false christ. Christ is returning for his bride, how do you think He will feel when he sees she has played the harlot [ spiritually speaking] to the anti-christ when He returns? He is NOT going to be happy, [ Revelation 17:4-5 ]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifAbiyah

godchild

04-09-2006, 02:11 AM

What this person is saying is that satan and his angels sits in heaven at this time, meaning that he hasn't been on the earth since it was created, wreaking havoc, tempting people, or deceiving them. If this person is not saying this, but that satan came to earth then returned to heaven to wait til just before the Savior comes again, where does the Bible say this happened (that he went back to heaven)? Where does the Bible say that God shares heaven with satan and his evil angels?

terluvire

04-09-2006, 04:59 AM

Quote:
Where does the Bible say that God shares heaven with satan and his evil angels?
End Quote

Just a little morsel, but here is one place:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Look here....satan is in heaven, he's standing before the Lord. Where is the Lord? In heaven!

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Look again...satan was walking to and fro on the earth

terluvire

04-09-2006, 05:09 AM

Hi Abiyah,

Quote:
For Paul is telling us that FIRST satan must appear on Mount Zion.. claiming to be God, and then their SHALL BE a "falling away"... this is the great apostacy... those that fall away FROM the True Jesus Christ, TO THE the instead of christ or anti-christ. They have been told pray that you are the first one taken... you know how two are at the mill, or two are in the bed... well....the first one taken, is taken into deception to the false christ. And there you have it... straight from the Word of God
End Quote

Very true, Our Father is against "fly to save your soul" teaching.
I very much enjoyed reading your post. Very simple to understand. Thumbs Up!

ezekiel_37

04-09-2006, 05:16 AM

IFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

......your rapture call comes from someone who is physically here on earth.......

IT'S NOT CHRIST!

that'll be his (Satan's) big trick!

angie0401

04-09-2006, 06:01 AM

I've been looking at some other threads here on FACTnet and you know what I find REALLY interesting? All the other threads (that are TRUE cults) I looked at have ex-MEMBERS of the cults and they are all searching for help, healing and to expose their former cult. That is not true here. The only thing remotely close to an ex-SC member I have seen is a (supposed) letter from some guy's ex-wife.

No former members complaining about how they have been "brainwashed", "threatened", "harmed" - nothing - nada - zip! No former members claiming damages, abuse, foul play - NOTHING, NADA, ZIP!

What I HAVE seen is people (who have NEVER been SC students, to my knowledge) that have made it their mission in life to accuse, harass, lie, and do whatever it takes to ATTEMPT to destroy the credibility of any SC person.

There are a few that just respectfully disagree and debate, which is perfectly fine. However, others feel the need to post on virtually every thread on this board, along with other boards. EXCEPT for the one that they (she) is now a member of - the SDA...

Isn't that really odd??? Almost makes you think that we AREN'T a cult, huh? NAHH - godchild said it, so it must be true. She is such a credible source, you know! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

terluvire

04-09-2006, 06:42 AM

Good evening Angie!

It is always so nice to see you here!

I completely agree with everything you said. I was just thinking the same thing. I was reading a thread where ex cult members were talking, and they were talking about how hurt they were. I have never read of a SC student complaining about how they have been brainwashed and so forth.

You said:
There are a few that just respectfully disagree and debate, which is perfectly fine. However, others feel the need to post on virtually every thread on this board, along with other boards. EXCEPT for the one that they (she) is now a member of - the SDA...

Yes...I have noticed that.

You said:
Isn't that really odd??? Almost makes you think that we AREN'T a cult, huh? NAHH - godchild said it, so it must be true. She is such a credible source, you know!

LOLOLOL You are too funny Angie!

godchild

04-09-2006, 02:51 PM

Satan was cast out of heaven when Jesus rose to sit on the right hand of God. (After the resurrection and His appearance to the saints.)Even then, satan was not in control, God is in control. Our God is not a changing God. Our God is a jealous God. Though satan was allowed to appear before God as an accuser, God used His evil for God's good purposes. God created satan. You give him power he does not have.
---------------------------------------
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with
a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. . .
..
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and
strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the
accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day
and night.
Verse 10 is sandwiched between the verses that describe the war in heaven
and the devil being cast out forever, and praise because of the saint's
victory by the blood of the Lamb. There is no New Testament verse that says
the devil enters heaven or is allowed to enter heaven anymore. YOU NEED TO STOP THINKING OF REVELATION AS A BOOK OF FUTURE EVENTS. IT IS A BOOK OF THE TIMES OF EARTH, PAST PRESENT, AND FUTURE.

godchild

04-09-2006, 03:03 PM

When we look at the total victory of Christ that utterly devastated Satan,it is sad to see Revelation 12:10 interpreted as not yet accomplished. Tothink that Jesus shed His blood for the cleansing of sin - to the point that
God can't even remember that sin - yet say that the devil can still standbefore God to accuse the brethren day and night, makes one gasp. It is a sadstate we are in to think that the devil still has entrance to heaven, when,by His resurrection, Jesus completely justified before God any man whobelieves. It is not easy to believe that the heavenly places were cleansed
based on the blood of Jesus, but the devil is still allowed to enter heavenand trample on those cleansed courts. It is hard to understand how Jesusemptied the bosom of Abraham of all the OT saints and took them to heaven,
and in midst of so great a cloud of witnesses the devil would stand thereand make accusations against them to God. It is hard to understand how
"salvation and strength and the kingdom of God and the power of Christ" wereset in place at the enthronement of Christ, and people can say the devil hasyet to be cast out of heaven. It is difficult to understand how Jesus cast
out devils who trembled before him when He was on earth, yet since Hisascension and glorification, He allows the devil to remain there with hisaccusations. It is hard to come to grips with the lie that our adversary is
still there, accusing the brethren before God day and night, in the midst ofall other activity before Him:
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth
into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon
the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on
the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive
power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Worthy of note in these verses is that before even one seal is opened, salvation (v. 9), power and strength (v. 12) is given to the risen and
ascended Lamb.

godchild

04-09-2006, 03:08 PM

The idea that the devil won't be cast out of heaven until the middle of the tribulation is a good example of the formation of doctrines without weighing them against the finished work of Christ. Christ's victory over the devil
was so complete, so final, so absolutely devastating to the devil - yet we
have teaching in the Church that says that in spite of that victory, the
devil is still there accusing the saints. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. . .10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and
strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the
accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day
and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their
testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. When the Child (Jesus Christ) went up (accompanied by the saints from Abraham's bosom, Luke 16:19-31), the devil came down. When Jesus was caught up the throne, salvation, strength, the kingdom of God and the power of Christ were set in place. These things came then, not in the future tribulation, and will be fully manifested when Christ returns to finish our salvation, to manifest a glorified Church who persevered to the end, to make visible the kingdom of God and manifest to all creation the fullness of
salvation, strength, the kingdom of God and the power of Christ in His earthly rule:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast,and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.

godchild

04-09-2006, 03:13 PM

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
We need to be sure of our doctrine, and we must do so with an eye on the finished work of Christ and the hope it gives us. An adversary has been cast down to earth and he is furious. Part of that fury is manifested in the variations of doctrines in the Church today. If in reality Satan cannot find entrance into heaven, he still makes it seem so because of his pride and arrogance. Despite his helpless futility, I imagine this doctrine satisfies
him to some degree, knowing that in spite of all that was accomplished by the finished work of Christ and is related in the Scriptures, he still has some believing he is in heaven maintaining the authority and office of
accuser of the brethren. He isn't and he doesn't.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent
forth into all the earth. . . .
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; . . ..
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

godchild

04-09-2006, 03:20 PM

There are no baptists that agree with am/sc, nor are there presbyterians. These are churches attended by ac/sc members. I have not attended an SDA church yet, but I do love the teachings on the 3ABN because they teach from the Holy Bible, not books written or revised by men who have a history of being anti-semitic or in another word 'British Israelites'. Please show where the Bible states the New Jerusalem will be in the UK?

watchman_2

04-09-2006, 03:27 PM

no one is claiming that the New Jerusalem will be in the UK.

Get your facts straight!

abiyah

04-09-2006, 04:27 PM

godchild WROTE;
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE "where does the Bible say this happened (that he went back to heaven)? Where does the Bible say that God shares Heaven with satan and his evil angels? " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif This is Still YET FUTURE, as it has NOT come to pass as of YET; However... time is running ever so short, NOW THESE VERESES DO INDEED SHOW US WERE SATAN IS.... RIGHT NOW, for he is IN the bottomless pit, that bottomless pit is IN HEAVEN ! Micheal is holding him back until the time that satan shoulbe be cast out, booted OUT OF HEAVEN and cast him to earth. Please.... know and understand that the dragon is one of satan's many roles and names.

Revelation 12:7 - 9
" And there was WAR IN HEAVEN' Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed NOT; NEITHER WAS THEIR PLACE FOUND ANY MORE IN HEAVEN. And the great dragon was cast out, THAT OLD SERPENT, CALLED THE DEVIL, AND SATAN, which deceiveth the whole world: he was CAST OUT INTO THE EARTH [ II Thessalonians 2:3-4 ], and his angels were cast out with him. "

anniecat

04-09-2006, 06:59 PM

To all Shepherd Chapel "members"...
You know, Pastor Murray stated "Just because one is a CHRISTIAN they do NOT have to lay down and take all kinds of abusives, and be trod upon... Christ always spoke what He thought..and we, too are to be followers of Christ Jesus...
As for godchild, just reading thru these talks, she is so full of HATE and wanting to tear anyone down that believes the TRUTH, and these TRUTHS are PROVEN ... not by men, but by GOD HIMSELF thru HIS WORD }
Seems when I was a "regular" here, it was BEAR that was aggravating and denying these Truths... and I, for one, will go to the ends to help someone, but when they taunt you, and walk on you, its time to "brush your feet" and leave..
Hope I didnt "intrude" but the bristles were up on that back of my neck...
It is sooo fulfilling to talk with like minded ones... and there are a lot of likeminded ones... and I ask the Lord to Bless their efforts... but also to stop and listen to the hate that flows from godchilds' mouth.. I wonder what "god" she believes in... My God is WORTHY of learning about, and studying and pursuing truths because I am sure, we, who are believe in Jehovah/ Yashua Messiah want to spend eternity with HIM.. and get out of this Satan influenced world...
Thanks for the ear..
Anniecat}}

watchman_2

04-10-2006, 01:44 AM

To finally dispose of the false theology/teaching that Satan is here among us because he was already cast out of heaven at the time of Adam and Eve, just review Rev. 12.

Verse 3 is Satan's rebellion in the first earth age. Verses 7-9 covers the rebellion in heaven that has not taken place yet in this second earth age.

Some will contend that Satan's appearance in the Garden of Eden is proof that the second war in heaven already took place.

On the contrary, we find in Job 1:7 that Satan was free to come and go to the earth and to heaven. Hence, there was no war or casting out until a later date.

So, when was Satan held captive in heaven. It is clear that even Christ had to be tempted by Satan. Having passed the test, Christ commanded Satan to "get thee hence" [Matt. 4:10].

So, since the time of Christ, Satan, in person, has not been allowed on earth. Of course, his spirit is working away on earth.

Clearly, the second war in heaven as stated in Rev. 12:7-9 has not taken place yet.

watchman_2

04-10-2006, 01:49 AM

anniecat,

Bear still denies the truth. But, he has ceased being the bully he once was. At least, he will engage in a more civil discussion now.

danispeachy

04-10-2006, 12:11 PM

Vivian said... "There are no Baptists that agree with am/sc, nor are there Presbyterians."

That is a bold claim. I suppose you actually went and surveyed every Baptist & Presbyterian right?
Wouldn't it have been better to state it as…..

The Baptists and Presbyterians churches statement of faith is contrary to what SC teaches.

See, now that statement is verifiable and doesn't encompass deciding what millions of people believe, just what their church teaches.

Just because your sitting in a church doesn't mean you believe everything your being taught there.

Vivian said “I do love the teachings on the 3ABN because they teach from the Holy Bible,”

Hey that’s great! I love Shepherds Chapel because they teach directly from the bible too! What a coincidence!

Vivian wrote “men who have a history of being anti-semitic or in another word 'British Israelites'. “

BI doesn’t mean anti Semitism. They do not go hand in hand. If you had ever bothered to read about the 12 tribes (In the Bible) you would know that 10 became lost. BI states that a portion if not all 10 of those tribes eventually moved on to form the Christian Nations. Which means … the 10 lost and the 2 we know about…Commonly called Jews, are a part of the same family. It doesn’t kick Jews out, it unites with them basically.

If a racist wants to twist it to try to kick the Jews out of the mix then that person is in the wrong not the BI teaching.

david_munson

04-13-2006, 05:53 PM

Watchman_2,
qoute"David,
Under your interpretation the Lord never sets foot on earth again. See 1 Thes. 4:17. ". . . and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Since you declared yourself that Christ returns to Earth, then we know that 1 Thes. 4:17 is not to be translated literally.
---
I will respond to that if and when you qoute me correctly without adding to change what I said.

"never sets foot on earth again"
Never said it.
Never implied it and neither does that verse.
We will be with Him forever and that includes when he comes with His saints in the clouds.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.
---
Satan walks the earth right now.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

If you underestimate this one you will regret it.
}

cs1

04-13-2006, 06:12 PM

david_munson, God child you have made good arguments and it has been one from what I see, one of many interpretations and allegorical beliefs, and one of (Sola scriptura) and plenary of God’s word (Inspired) from Gen to Rev. In context to what the author was saying to the people of that time, and how we can apply it today. God child, david_munson you have them on the ropes.

ezekiel_37

04-13-2006, 06:39 PM

nope

no ropes

Founded.

godchild has not brouight anything to the table but lies and false witness.

Anything she says will be dismissed as 'crazy' from all her nutty posts in the past.

She is not able to grow any seed as she so desperately wants too but that is for God to do!

David has openly shared his views without contempt. His views are in my opinion not biblically valid but he has not tried to 'force' them down anyones throat.

Godchild is not capable of having a civil conversation.

All of her seeds are not growable here. They are rotten.

Hey cs1....it's kinda like me accusingnyou of not believing that Jesus is Lord.

Now, I know that you have told me and others here that this statement is very important to you.

Imagine if I called you a liar after you said that.

Imagine that no matter what you were told, you still bare false witness, and lie outright.

this is what godchild does each day.

she lies and makes no apologies for them.

No....there is no rope, unless it is a self made, self used noose.....

The scriptural references are too many to count from the friends who study with Shepherd's Chapel.

She's plain out nuts.
Enough is enough.

And by the way....there is no rapture.

cs1

04-13-2006, 07:47 PM

LOl ok that is between you and her, it is you that says my beliefs our false as does Mr.watchman_2 and ref: myself to the devil. and I have NOT in any way attack you personally ok.
none of you have IMO shown me the Lordship of Jesus. I tried to find Specific statements to what I believe the Bible clearly tells us about Jesus Being the only way, truth and life. SC has chosen to interrupt the bible allegorically , to come up with a thought and try to find scripture to back it up That is wrong. Also if Mr. watchman_2 denies the Deity Of Christ that is Anti Christ and must be said as so according to the word of God.

ezekiel_37

04-14-2006, 12:50 AM

There is only one point that I think that you believe is wrong...that I know of.... and that is the rapture (gathering) before the 7th Trump.

You seem to enjoy the letter of the Law and not to see this is strange to me but at the same time understandable.

For one that professes to Love Jesus and claim Him as Lord, for that one to want to leave and fly away when Jesus needs you most......is increadible to me...

That shows a lack of respect and lack of love and lack of trust in our Lord! But that's my opinion. Think about it!

He wants you in the feild....

terluvire

04-14-2006, 02:27 AM

Good Evening Ezekiel!

You made me laugh when I read this:

No....there is no rope, unless it is a self made, self used noose.....
And this:
She's plain out nuts.
Enough is enough.
End

Humor can be found in the most unlikely places...lol

I agree with your post above, Jesus wants us working in the field until His return. And how happy we will be doing just that!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

watchman_2

04-14-2006, 10:59 AM

David,

I never tried to say that you said those things. I was simply showing you how you were wrong with your interpretation.

You claim that 1 Thes. 4:17 is LITERAL because of the words 'clouds' and 'air' have literal definitions only. My point is that your claim leads to a logic paradox that cannot be resolved in the scriptures.

In taking your claim to its logical conclusion, one has to evaluate the last clause of 1 Thes. 4:17 literally as well. Hence, one can ONLY conclude that, based upon a literal interpretation of the clause "and so shall we [the dead and those 'caught up'] ever be with the Lord", the Lord will never set forth on Earth again because we will always be with him in the clouds and the air.

As you have stated, Christ does set forth on Earth again on the Mount of Olives. Hence, the logic paradox exists. For your 'rapture' claim to hold true, Christ remains in the clouds and air forever more. If Christ returns to Earth, then your 'rapture' theory is false. It cannot be both ways.

Since the scriptures are clear that Christ returns to Earth and does not stay forever in the clouds and air, we are left with the ONLY conclusion that 1 Thes. 4:17 is not speaking literally, eventhough the words have literal definitions.

Since your 'rapture' theory is based upon a literal interpretation of 1 Thes. 4:17 and that literal interpretation cannot be supported by the scriptures as demonstrated above, one can ONLY conclude that the 'rapture' theory is false theology. God states the same. See Eze. 13:18-23.

watchman_2

04-14-2006, 11:48 AM

David,

1 Peter 5:8 is speaking to a future event prior to Christ's return. Satan has not been cast out of heaven yet. See Rev. 12:7-9. Satan is not currently walking on the Earth.

david_munson

04-14-2006, 01:38 PM

Watchman_2," For your 'rapture' claim to hold true, Christ remains in the clouds and air forever more. If Christ returns to Earth, then your 'rapture' theory is false. It cannot be both ways."

You are adding to what I have quoted in scripture.
It does not say that we shall be forever with Him "in the air."
It states that when we are united with Him "in the air" we shall remain with Him forever,never to be seperated from Him.
That includes His earthly return on the "day of the Lord."
Eze 13:20
The souls that ye hunt to make them fly - lephorechoth, into the flower gardens, says Parkhurst. These false prophetesses decoyed men into these gardens, where probably some impure rites of worship were performed, as in that of Asherah or Venus.

As for Satan not walking the earth see Job*1:7
Job*2:2 and Job*2:7.
Now tell me Satan doesn't walk the earth.

Then we have to ask why the pharasees accused Jesus of doing miracles through the devil?
Is it because the devil was on earth doing his evil deeds?
Yes and he still is.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Notice the words "in the world," that is where he walks.He is not as God is,omnipresent.

---------->
}

(Message edited by david munson on April 14, 2006)

(Message edited by david munson on April 14, 2006)

david_munson

04-14-2006, 01:41 PM

Eze 13:20
* * * 20. I am against your pillows--that is, against your lying ceremonial tricks by which ye cheat the people.
* * * to make them fly--namely, into their snares, as fowlers disturb birds so as to be suddenly caught in the net spread for them. "Fly" is peculiarly appropriate as to those lofty spiritual flights to which they pretended to raise their dupes when they veiled their heads with kerchiefs and made them rest on luxurious arm-cushions (Eze 13:18).
* * * let .*.*. souls go--"Ye make them fly" in order to destroy them; "I will let them go" in order to save them (Ps 91:3; Pr 6:5; Ho 9:8).

Baruch Habbah Hashem Adonia,
Dave
}

david_munson

04-14-2006, 02:13 PM

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.
This verse is in the present tense.It does not say "will walk" but says
"walketh about"(is walking) indicating that we must alert to his devices.Doubt this and you will be easily decieved.
Not only does he want people to not believe he exsists,he also wants those who do to think he is not such a problem.

Eve was on earth when Satan beguiled her in the garden in Genesis.On earth.

Be well today and everyday,
Dave
}

ezekiel_37

04-14-2006, 04:47 PM

David.....that was in the past

now...the present...

the fallen angels are in the pit, awaiting their release

Satan is also in bondage at the moment....waiting to be released a short season....

The devil walked the earth physically in the past and is forcast to do so again in the tribulation.

Right now, the devil is being held by MIchael the Arc angel and will soon be kicked from heaven to earth REV 13

Peace
c

watchman_2

04-14-2006, 10:48 PM

David,

1 Thes. 4:16 states that Christ returns "with the TRUMP of God". Which of the seven trumps other than the seventh trump does Christ return to justify your 'rapture' theory?

My reading of the scriptures indicates that Christ only returns on the seventh trump. For your theory to hold true and since your 'rapture' scriptures state that a trump is involved, Christ has to return for the 'rapture' on a prior trump. Which one is it?

I quoted the KJV correctly with respect to 1 Thes. 4:17. There is no doubt, according to your logic, that we all will forever be with Christ in the air. Your attempt to switch to an allegorical interpretation for the last clause of the scripture while maintaining a literal interpretation for the other part of the scripture is inappropriate.

If you claim that 'clouds' and 'air' are literal, you must also claim that "so shall we ever be with the Lord" is literal as well. Thus, your interpretation is that Christ never returns.

Eze. 13:20 is abundantly clear that God is against those that hunt souls to make them fly. The 'rapture' theory is the 'fly away' theory.

God is against you!

watchman_2

04-14-2006, 10:53 PM

David,

The word 'walketh' in 1 Peter 5:8 is not literal. Check out Strong's G4043. The translation to 'walketh about' falls under the figurative definition of the word.

Satan will be on Earth prior to Christ's return. See Rev. 12:7-9. But, Satan is not on Earth now.

david_munson

04-15-2006, 01:50 AM

Please read again what I posted above.My stance remains the same.

To think that Satan and his cronies are not here now is to make it much easier for him to decieve and mislead into destruction the soul that makes such a mistake.
1 Peter 5:8 makes it obvious that Satan is on this earth having an influence on peoples lives.
Just look around to see that.Our sin nature is not the only thing we have to deal with.
We have to deal with temptations from the flesh the oftimes negative infuence of the world and the wiles of the devil.
That is why we need the armor of Eph.6 and to mortify the deeds of the flesh in Rom.8:13 and Col.3:5.

Praise Yeshua the Christ,
Dave
}

watchman_2

04-15-2006, 02:47 AM

David,

Satan's evil spirit roams the earth today. Satan is not here in person.

I did read what you posted and you are wrong. I used the same scriptural references in Job myself. Satan roamed the earth during this earth age until Christ was tempted by him. Since the time of Christ, Satan has been held by Michael in heaven.

david_munson

04-15-2006, 02:00 PM

Having been a druid myself in the past (thank God) I can tell you with authority that Satan is on earth now seeking whom he may destroy.

If Satan is at the present bound then we would have to be in the "millennial reign" at this very moment.The new Jerusalem would have descended already and peace would be worldwide.
Not to mention Christ would be on earth right now physically.
You are in error my friend.

Now to the trumps.
Israel has times of blowing the rams horn or trump if you like for different occasions that pertain to feasts and celebrations as well as warning to the people.
Once the temple is rebuilt these trumps will become more prevalent.
There is no indication to which time the last trump will be blown and where does it mention a seventh trump?
---
At the last trump. When the trumpet shall sound to raise the dead. The word "last" here does not imply that any trumpet shall have been before sounded at the resurrection, but is a word denoting that this is the consummation or close of things; it will end the economy of this world; it will be connected with the last state of things. (Barnes)

}

david_munson

04-15-2006, 02:07 PM

Where in heaven or in the Bible does it say that Micheal is holding Satan?
Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Where does it say in scripture that Satan is being held in heaven by Michael?
}

ezekiel_37

04-15-2006, 04:31 PM

My last post should have referenced the 12th chapter and not the 13th. My apologies

Chapter 12 is a very educational Chapter....
this chapter dives into the 3 earth ages.
this chapter covers all of time, not just the flesh age.

But in this flesh age....
After the cross.....

Satan and his angels are held in heaven right now.

in some sort of a jail....

soon to be KICKED OUT forever....

to earth.....

his angels are being held right now (Jude), until they will be released with the devil to deceive the whole world.

we use our brains to figure out things....

now, we know that THE LORD is ALL POWERFUL and it is by His will that He enpowers Michael to be the 'jailer'

since 'Michael' is the one who 'kicks the devil to earth' then Michael, the defender, is the one who is holding him until that reserved time...on God's authority.

the devil's spirit is here right now and in almost FULL control of the entire world.....

but he will be here in person....in the physical....and be someone that you can't ignore.....he can call lightning down from heaven and deceive the nations by kinds of false mirracles....ALL, save the elect, will fall for him as the Messiah

a rapture belief will have you all 'running/flying' to him saying....'take me, take me'

Now David....and others that believe in the rapture before the 7th Trump.....

Does Christ's feet actually touch the ground during the supposed pre 7th Trump rapture?

....cause if anyone claiming to be Jesus is here on earth and his feet ARE touching the ground...then it AIN'T the Messiah...right!

.....at least not in the flesh......

ALL of us get transformed into spiritual bodies at that time.......so there shouldn't be any confusion...... right

Now, I know you guys and gals believe in this fairytail but ......

if you are not in your spiritual bodies....then it is NOT the true Messiah but an or THE ANTI-CHRIST

please say that you understand this....

even in the rapture belief....as I understand it.....the raptured souls are not in flesh bodies but in the spiritual bodies.

do the rapture believers concur with this?

Peace in Christ's name

david_munson

04-15-2006, 10:00 PM

Spirit bodies?
Changed yes but Spirit bodies?
Not in the Holy Writ.

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Show me where it says Christ comes at the "seventh" trump.I read last trump and that does not translate seventh,it translates "last."
---
Watchman,you stated "Satan's evil spirit roams the earth today. Satan is not here in person."

That statement puts Satan on level footing with God himself.Satan cannot do what God can.Satan cannot send his spirit to earth because as an angel he is a spirit.
---
I think that we must agree that we disagree on this point,respectfully.

Christ is risen.
Baruch Hashem Adonia,
Dave

}

david_munson

04-15-2006, 10:06 PM

Christ who rose as the first begotten from the dead was raised in a body that was like the one He was born in.He rose physically not Spiritually or allegorically.

He could be touched and handled as Thomas was allowed to do so that he could more easily believe in the "risen" saviour.

Blessed are those who haven't seen yet still believe.
}

watchman_2

04-15-2006, 10:42 PM

David,

Satan's spirit is here destroying whomsoever he can destroy -- but not in body.

By way of your millenium age/New Jerusalem comment, I can see that you are really messed up with the future.

What is commonly referred to as the millenium is in fact the Lord's Day. A day with the Lord is a thousand years [II Pet. 3:8]. Hence, the term millenium is derived.

The New Jerusalem takes place after the white throne judgement in the age to come, which takes place in the new heaven and new earth age [II Pet. 3:13]. At this time, Satan is no more.

It is clear from Rev. 12 that Michael and his angels will fight Satan and Satan's angels, which will result in Satan and Satan's angels being cast out to the earth. This has not happened yet.

Rev. 12:8 declares their [Satan and Satan's angels] place was found no more in heaven. So, that is where they are until the are cast out.

Michael is the angel that makes war. Logic dictates that Michael is responsible for controlling Satan while Satan is in heaven.

1 Thes. 4:16 declares that the Lord descends WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD. You described man's trumpets -- not God's. God's are described in the book of Revelation. Only the seventh trump describes Christ. Which of the other trumps are you contending is the 'rapture'?

watchman_2

04-15-2006, 10:57 PM

David,

For the seventh trump, see Rev. 11:15.

Christ appeared after the crucifixion in a transfigured body -- not the one he was born in.

This second earth age is simply a choice to love God or follow Satan. Satan is supernatural and his evil spirit roams the earth.

God already defeated Satan in the first earth age. Satan's sole purpose in this earth age is to test God's children. Those who fail the test will be culled in the great white throne judgment along with Satan [Satan's purpose being fulfilled]. So, of course God allows Satan's spirit to roam the earth.

ezekiel_37

04-16-2006, 12:56 AM

Spirit bodies?
Changed yes but Spirit bodies?
Not in the Holy Writ.

wanna bet?

Start with 1 Cor 15:35 and read until the end of the chapter....

Paul is explaining the 2 different bodies...

the earthly and the spiritual.....

When Christ comes.....all flesh is turned to spirit....good bad ugly and animal.

The 7th trump IS the final TRUMP...the furtherest one out! The last Trump...

There are 7 Trumps explained in Revelation

The last one is the return of Christ.....

6-6-6
sixth seal, 6th Trump, 6th Vial of Wrath
this 'marks the one in charge of the world as the Devil.....

7-7-7
the return of the Messiah
7th Seal, 7thg Trump and 7th Vial of God's Wrath

Let me tell you a Secret....we shall not all die

yep! all flesh will be changed to the incorruptaable spirit body so that we can 'mingle' with Christ, for the 2 different bodies cannot do so now....until all is changed....

so there it is David....

in the Holy Writ.

Peace
c

ezekiel_37

04-16-2006, 02:00 AM

I Cor 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

I Cor 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

I Cor 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:"

...one body is corruptible and one is incorruptible

I Cor 15:43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:"

...the earth body is not 'forever' and is in weakness and sin.

I Cor 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

...2 different bodies for each 'born from above' soul

I Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul;" the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

I Cor 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural: and afterward that which is spiritual."

I Cor 15:47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

...this verse explains 'who' the quickening spirit is...it's Jesus Christ

I Cor 15:48 "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly."

.... flesh on earth.... spiritual in heaven

I Cor 15:49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

...all will have both bodies

I Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

...the 2 bodies cannot co-mingle

I Cor 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

...not all of us who are alive NOW shall die before the end comes.

if this is indeed the Last generation....then all of us will not die off and those that are alive when the true Christ returns shall not die but be changed in an instant to the spiritual body.

I Cor 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

I Cor 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

I Cor 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in Victory." "

...one of the devil's names is Death

I Cor 15:55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

...Death looses this war!

I Cor 15:56 "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

I Cor 15:57 "But thanks be to God Which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Peace in Christ's Name
c

david_munson

04-18-2006, 04:50 PM

Christ's body had no corruption in it.He was without sin,pure and undefiled.

Thomas knew that Christ still had a physical body.He placed his hands in the holes that Christ bore in His body.The only man made thing in heaven.Why should we assume other wise?

Satan has not the power of death.
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
}

godchild

04-19-2006, 02:09 AM

If Jesus rose in spirit, why didn't they see his physical shell and bury it. He was not there. His was a glorified body. We will be changed in an instant, in glorified bodies. One will be in the field, the other will be gone. No physical shell left lying there. The graves will be opened and the dead in Christ shall RISE first. We will GO TO BE WITH HIM IN THE AIR.
Show scripture that says angels have physical bodies. Why does the Scriptures say 'they can appear as men' if they are men? Angels are spirit, satan was an angel (spirit). He did not and cannot take on a body. The antichrist will be a follower of satan. There are already antichrists on earth. The fall of Lucifer already happened. He is here with his angels, spirits. When the evil spirits left the man and entered the swine, did the swine bodies then fall to the ground while the demons ran off the cliff? No. Satan cannot dwell in righteous places. God forsook Jesus as He took on our sin on the cross because He cannot look on sin. Sin is darkness. God is light. There are no shadows in heaven.

godchild

04-19-2006, 02:14 AM

Hitlet was an antichrist. He took on all the evil of satan, which satan is. He had the whole world convinced. You cannot see evil. Only the results of it. Satan is spirit. You cannot see God, only the results of God. No man has seen God and lived. Only the Son, who is God, has seen God and God's good angels and the Holy Spirit, who is God, enters us and abides in us. We are made new creatures in him. Our physical bodies don't fall to the ground.

watchman_2

04-19-2006, 02:15 AM

Christ's transfigured body contained the wounds for the witness's benefit.

ezekiel_37

04-19-2006, 05:02 AM

the transfigured body and the resurected believers spiritual body are not the same.

david...your statement

Christ's body had no corruption in it.He was without sin,pure and undefiled.

agreed....Christ's Godly body was not and is not the subject but all that are on the earth physically...that is the subjest. Jesus is not included in this analogy and you should understand that...He is Special and Unique.

Thomas knew that Christ still had a physical body.He placed his hands in the holes that Christ bore in His body.The only man made thing in heaven.Why should we assume other wise?

we shouldn't

Satan has not the power of death.
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Satan cannot destroy someones soul
Satan has not the power to create nor destroy a soul.

Satan does have the power to corrupt ones soul...he has the power to deceive and lead astray, which can cause spiritual death....

....and sinse spiritual death is what we are facing and battling right now...and even more so in the near fulture....Satan does have influence in this reguard....

Satan is called DEATH

Revelation 6:8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell, [Hades] followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts [wild beasts] of the earth."

Death is capitalized for starts and it does mean the entity.

One of the 4 horsman accounts....all 4 being Satan
The pale horse is always symbolic of death.
Death is one of Satan's roles and is his name in Hebrews 2:14.

Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil;"

Satan's name is 'death', and he has already been sentenced to soul death by God. Satan is going to die, and bring as many as possible with him.

David....we have been christian like so far in our discourse

Do you agree with the teachings from the bible in 1 Cor 15 that speak of the different bodies and how ALL will be changed to those spiritual bodies when Jesus return's at the last trump?

you did not before and I am wondering if the scripture was enough or not, in honesty!

Peace
c

ezekiel_37

04-19-2006, 05:05 AM

godchild.....

half of what you post is absolutely correct and the other half is absolutely so wrong that I wouldn't even know where to begin....

Satan is the anti-christ....start there!

david_munson

04-19-2006, 06:31 PM

What do spirits eat?

Concider the marriage "supper" of the Lamb.

}

watchman_2

04-19-2006, 10:41 PM

Spiritual bodies/angels eat manna.

terluvire

04-19-2006, 10:49 PM

Yup they sure do Watchman!

Exo 16:15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

ezekiel_37

04-20-2006, 10:36 AM

why do people say that angels can't be physical....

being physical doesn't mean being flesh and blood but it does mean having substance...

the angels that ate with and warned LOT were most definately physical.

the towns men wanted to rape them and have their way sexually with them...

so people can definately see angels as sexual beings and angels can eat our food as well as we can eat manna, which is angels food!

As much as these are real events...they are also examples of what is to happen in the latter days.

manna from heaven is symbolic of truth from God!

Peace
c

arron

04-20-2006, 02:10 PM

the angel appeared as mortal men... sicne we are in the image OF GOD and angels appear as men when they are sent to us. you do not find where GODS angels had sex. an angel is a SPIRITUAL being. evil angel can influence people demons can posess people. the sons of GOD were those who decended from seth. when people began to call on THE NAME OF THE LORD. they were referred to as SONS OF GOD. those who did not call on HIS NAME were not called the sons of GOD that is where the daughter of men came in. GOD did not want the mixing of HIS people with the world.
i have never seen an angel as a sexual being.

terluvire

04-20-2006, 04:47 PM

Arron said:
Quote:
the sons of GOD were those who decended from seth. when people began to call on THE NAME OF THE LORD. they were referred to as SONS OF GOD.
End Quote

Arron, Are you referring to these verses:

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

The word "began" in the Hebrew is:

H2490
cha&#770;lal
khaw-lal'
A primitive root (compare H2470); properly to bore, that is, (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485) to play (the flute): - begin (X men began), defile, X break, defile, X eat (as common things), X first, X gather the grape thereof, X take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

The word "call" in the Hebrew is:

H7121
qara
kaw-raw'
A primitive root (rather identical with H7122 through the idea of accosting a person met); to call out to (that is, properly address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications): - bewray [self], that are bidden, call (for, forth, self, upon), cry (unto), (be) famous, guest, invite, mention, (give) name, preach, (make) proclaim (-ation), pronounce, publish, read, renowned, say.

H7122
qara
kaw-raw'
A primitive root; to encounter, whether accidentally or in a hostile manner: - befall, (by) chance, (cause to) come (upon), fall out, happen, meet.

accost
verb accosted, accosting
1. To approach someone and speak to them, especially boldly or in a threatening way.
Thesaurus: approach, greet, hail, address, confront, buttonhole, waylay, detain, halt, stop.
2. Said of a prostitute: to offer to have sexual intercourse with someone in return for money.

They were not calling on the name of the Lord as Christians would, but rather they were profaning the name of the Lord.

manu_forti

04-20-2006, 06:00 PM

terluvire,

I have my own primitive root origins.

The origin of Dot Com ...

In ancient Israel, it came to pass that a trader by
the name of Abraham Com did take unto himself a young
wife by the name of Dot.

And Dot Com was a comely woman, broad of shoulder and
long of leg. Indeed, she had been called 'Amazon Dot
Com.'

And she said unto Abraham, her husband, "Why dost thou
travel far from town to town with thy goods when thou
can trade without ever leaving thy tent?"

And Abraham did look at her as though she were several
saddle bags short of a camel load, but simply said,
"How, dear?"

And Dot replied, "I will place drums in all the towns
and drums in between to send messages saying what you
have for sale and they will reply telling you which
hath the best price. And the sale can be made on the
drums and delivery made by Uriah's Pony Stable (UPS)."

Abraham thought long and decided he would let Dot have
her way with the drums. And the drums rang out and
were an immediate success. Abraham sold all the goods
he had at the top price, without ever moving from his
tent.

But this success did arouse envy. A man named Maccabia
did secrete himself inside Abraham's drum and was
accused of insider trading. And the young man did take
to Dot Com's trading as doth the greedy horsefly take
to camel dung. They were called Nomadic Ecclesiastical
Rich Dominican Siderites, or NERDS for short.

And lo, the land was so feverish with joy at the new
riches and the deafening sound of drums that no one
noticed that the real riches were going to the drum
maker, one Brother William of Gates, who bought up
every drum company in the land. And indeed did insist
on making drums that would work only with Brother
Gates' drumheads and drumsticks.

And Dot did say, "Oh, Abraham, what we have started is
being taken over by others."

And as Abraham looked out over the Bay of Ezekiel, or
as it came to be known "eBay" he said, "We need a
name! that reflects what we are."

And Dot replied, "Young Ambitious Hebrew Owner
Operators."

"YAHOO," said Abraham.

And that is how it all began.

godchild

04-20-2006, 06:14 PM

Hello, Manuforti!

manu_forti

04-20-2006, 06:26 PM

Hello to you. I sent you a message over at the other place.

I've been trying to get on here for the last couple of days but it seems that FACNET is imploding or something like that.

terluvire

04-20-2006, 06:28 PM

Hello Manu!!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I am so glad to see your spirits are up....LOLhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

I pray all is well with you and I'm sure you and your wife must be preparing for your trip! How Blessed you are!!

I was happy to see you post today, for I have been thinking of you. Please, do take care of yourself, you need to be well rested for your trip..lol

God bless http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

manu_forti

04-20-2006, 06:36 PM

terluvire,

Thanks for the kind sentiments and for your thoughtful prayers. For the record I’m feeling great and Rachael and I are getting ready for our trip to Israel in about 2 weeks.

I trust all of you are being nice to each other.

I’ll try to stay in touch if this web site doesn’t go down first.

God bless.

MF

ezekiel_37

04-21-2006, 12:28 AM

arron.....repeat of the story of Lot...have your ead it?

the towns men wanted to rape them and have their way sexually with them...

so people can definately see angels as sexual beings

ezekiel_37

04-21-2006, 12:29 AM

'ead it' should read ...read it!

arron

04-21-2006, 12:50 AM

no for they only appeared as men. their SPIRITUAL bodies were not seen but they were seen as MEN .

arron

04-21-2006, 02:35 AM

i know the men of the city wanted to rape the ANGELS they did not know they were angels. the ANGELS appeared in men or man form not their spiritual bodies.
telliv .. where do you et that began means to profane and call mean to accost. that is stupid.

terluvire

04-21-2006, 02:43 AM

Arron said:
Quote:
no for they only appeared as men. their SPIRITUAL bodies were not seen but they were seen as MEN .
End Quote

If their, (the angels), were not seen in their spiritual bodies, then what body were they in? It is obvious they were not in flesh bodies, for in all instances, when an angel approached a person, they knew instantly it was an angel and not a flesh man.

And like Ezekiel said:
Quote:
towns men wanted to rape them and have their way sexually with them...

so people can definately see angels as sexual beings
End Quote

And they also are able to eat our food like they did when Abraham served them. I know an invisible whisp certainly couldn't eat. Angels have a body though the substance isn't flesh, it's a spiritual body, but a body no less