Cult Leader Arnold Murray is a racist worse than the kkk

[trsrinheaven (trsrinheaven)]

The Answers and the Truth about 'Cult Leader ARNOLD MURRAY' are in this article!

CULT ALERT!!!
This article below ANWSWERS all and Exposes Cult leader Arnold Murray, his outrageous evil and Racist beliefs.

Abiyah, ez 37, w2,and terluvire are cult followers with the agenda for Arnold Murray their cult leader and other nuts.

Click the link for the 'great article' which exposes and corrects Arnold Murray and these,his cult followers, Biblical errors.

There is nothing to debate with these unfortunate, obviously twisted spiritually blinded people. They are obviously on and agenda for your cult leader, working together to spread his dung.

Click the link below and read how twisted Arnold Murray is from the informative article of the phony Dr murray. The real con man is their leader Arnold Murray

http://www.mission.org/jesuspeople/arnmuray.htm

Murray ridculously believes that Eve had sex with the serpent,
men were once gods who existed prior to living on the earth,
that there is no trinity,
no rapture, Anglo-Saxons are the chosen race(racist belief), and America and Great Britain are the lost tribes of the children of Israel among other ridiculous crazy beliefs he and his deceived cult followers including abiyah, reuben, w2 and ez-37 have. They instead follow this false prophet called Arnold Murray, and not God.

Murray does not believe in the Christian doctrine of the Trinity (one God existing eternally in three Persons).
There are three real and personal relationships between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Murray denies the three persons of God, among many other crazy unBiblical things.

Click the link below and Read some of the crazy things Arnold Murray professes and see what abiyah and ez-37 follow.

http://www.mission.org/jesuspeople/arnmuray.htm

Don't waste your time with these cult people who are pushers of this cult's agenda.

[trsrinheaven (trsrinheaven)]

Q. Why do you follow this idiot, obvious racist Arnold Murray?
A. Spiritiual Blind ignorance.

He continues to try to COVER UP his racism.
He is kkk like all the time.

-Murray doesn't believe in inner racial marriage.
-Murray hates Jews.
-Murray states EVE HAD SEX WITH SATAN.
-Murray has threatened people and there is proof on line of this....
among many other preposterous actions and lies.

He is such a joke...and his followers pathetic.

Following him makes you even dumber than dumb.

[kingdavid (kingdavid)]

<font size="+1">YAWN...</font>

[kingdavid (kingdavid)]

<font size="+1">YAWN...</font>

[watchman_2 (watchman_2)]

kingdavid,

She posted the same stuff under the Religous Leaders - Arnold Murray thread.

Will need your double "YAWN" over there as well.

[israels_son (israels_son)]

I agree with you watchman, big yawn.

[abiyah (abiyah)]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

Well first let me say this, that what she has written here above is just not so... I'm sorry but it is a LIE ! Now... I will join you all in a real big http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif..... </font>

[trsrinheaven]

abiyah, e37, wathman2 etcn follow cults.
Click the link below and read how twisted Arnold Murray is from the informative article of the phony Dr murray. The real con man fake doctorate and all is their leader Arnold Murray. abiyah, ezekiel_37 follows Cult leader and racist Arnold Murray.

Arnold Murray has crazy racist doctrines. He and his followers are exposed below. Just click the link for an informative article exposing the ridiculous unBiblical lies and error.

http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea4.htm

http://www.mission.org/jesuspeople/arnmuray.htm

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">More Lies and Another big <font size="+1">YAWN</font></font>http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

[trsrinheaven]

What does the Shepherd's Chapel teach?


The Shepherd's Chapel is, at the very least, a controversial church with many unBiblical unorthodox doctrines. The following list of teachings from the Shepherd's Chapel is derived from scouring the Internet, chat rooms, bulletin boards, asking the followers of Arnold Murray, and looking at the Shepherd's Chapel web site.
Even though the Shepherd's Chapel is considered to be a non-Christian cult by many people.

UnBiblical Teaching

-Denies the Trinity and teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are really three offices held by the one God.
-Denies the existence of eternal Hell.
-Denies the doctrine of the rapture.
-Denies physical resurrection of believers. We will be raised spiritually.
-Teaches annihilationism: non-existence after death for sinners.
-Teaches that certain Old Testament kosher laws -regarding meat should be followed.
-Teaches Serpent Seed doctrine: Eve had literal sexual relations with the serpent.
-The offspring of Eve's impregnation resulted in Cain, Satan's offspring.
-The Kenites are the tares of the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matt. 13.
-Satan's fallen angels impregnated women around the time of Noah.
-Interracial marriage is wrong.
-Being born again is to enter into this body from a spiritual body of another age.
-America and Britain are the lost tribes of Israel.
-People were alive in a pre-existence.
-There was an earth age prior to Adam where a race of people lived.
-The Rapture is a false doctrine.

http://www.carm.org/chapel/intro_chapel.htm

[angie0401]

infoman, aka trsinheaven,
Why do you cut &amp; paste the same post in every thread using different usernames?

[danispeachy]

I have never heard Pastor Murray say that interracial marriage is wrong. Come to think of it, I’ve never heard a student say that either. To be honest such discussions don’t come up much anyway because SC students are too busy actually studying Gods word. I have heard PM say that Christians should only marry Christians though.

I'd be interested in knowing when he supposedly said that but despite my several requests no one has ever been able to provide proof. Can you?

All to often the bashers regurgitate the same old sorry websites that have no proof to back their claims. These websites even have disclaimers that the information is UNVERIFIED.

Until such proof is provided or I hear it myself, I must gather it’s yet another lie made up by PM bashers, something taken out of context, or supposed “students” who really are spouting off their own agendas instead of PM’s.

Until someone can provide PROOF, defined as valid, factual evidence, you know the kind that would stand up in a court of law, one must dismiss such accusations.

By providing these ridiculous websites as evidence, you are just regurijitating the same lies and therefore purposefully, premeditatedly being a liar.

Are you a Christian? Are you aware that it is written, “thou shalt not bear false witness”?
You are aware that it means you shouldn’t lie aren’t you? If you’re a Christian and you know it’s wrong to lie than why are you doing it?

If you are so adamant that Pastor Murray is a racist than show evidentiary proof in a valid form and send it to me at proveit_2me@yahoo.com.
I am confident that like so many others I’ve asked, an email will never come.

[trsrinheaven]

1981: Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught an anti-Trinitarian belief about God, and Christian Identity. Back in the 1970's, he predicted that the Antichrist would appear before 1981.


THE IMPLICIT RACISM OF ARNOLD MURRAY

Anglo-Israel Origin

Mr. Murray teaches Anglo-Israelism which believes that Anglo-Saxons are the chosen race, and America and Great Britain are the lost tribes of the children of Israel. Murray claims that the northern ten tribes of Israel are "the same tribes that later went north and populated Europe and North America". (The Shepherd's Chapel newsletter #148, 2-91)

According to the his theology of Anglo-Israelism, other races are inferior to whites, and usually the blacks and Jewish race are particularly stigmatized. Murray, on the other hand, says that he respects blacks and other races.

However, he believes these races were the 'Adam' created on the sixth day of creation in Genesis 1, while the Anglo-Saxons were 'another Adam' created on the eighth day of creation based on his interpretation of Genesis 2. Hence, there is a definite distinction between whites and non-whites. Arnold Murray also promotes the literature of other Anglo-Israelism teachers. The Shepherd's Chapel Book List, for instance, offers materials by E. Raymond Capt and J. H. Allen.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">He teaches ALL the races were created on the 6th day and God said it was very good!</font>

[danispeachy]

All to often the bashers regurgitate the same old sorry websites that have no proof to back their claims. These websites even have disclaimers that the information is UNVERIFIED.

Until such proof is provided or I hear it myself, I must gather it’s yet another lie made up by PM bashers, something taken out of context, or supposed “students” who really are spouting off their own agendas instead of PM’s.

Until someone can provide PROOF, defined as valid, factual evidence, you know the kind that would stand up in a court of law, one must dismiss such accusations.

By providing these ridiculous websites as evidence, you are just regurijitating the same lies and therefore purposefully, premeditatedly being a liar.

Are you a Christian? Are you aware that it is written, “thou shalt not bear false witness”?
You are aware that it means you shouldn’t lie aren’t you? If you’re a Christian and you know it’s wrong to lie than why are you doing it?

If you are so adamant that Pastor Murray is a racist than show evidentiary proof in a valid form and send it to me at proveit_2me@yahoo.com.
I am confident that like so many others I’ve asked, an email will never come.

[kingdavid]

The pretribulation rapture is false. We will be gathered to Christ, yes, but not until the 7th trump.

Christ said, "if you have seen me you have seen the Father", and "I and the Father are one". How then can they be completely seperate from each other? I think that what AM teaches is scripture, There is only ONE God, not three Gods.

"You shall have no other gods before me"
If you worship Christ, and deny that He and the Father are ONE, and believe they are completely seperate of each other, wouldn't that be committing IDOLATRY?

[godchild]

from a sc supporter trentwoodard/john cody (who is amongst you once again:

Most preachers and teachers today do not want to address the subject of race for many reasons. One reason is that it is not ‘popular’, if you can have all people attending your church, then obviously you will have greater numbers, which in turn brings a larger offering, which in turn builds a bigger bank account. Another reason is that we have politically correct preachers today instead of Scripturally correct preachers. And also, for fear of the Jews, they dare not preach the truth concerning race and the satanic seed line that is spoken about in scripture from Genesis to Revelation. We dare not depict them as the one’s who killed Christ. We dare not make a differentiation concerning the different races that are blatantly and obviously different…or we may be called a “racist.”
-------------------
I'll say one thing for him: he's right up front about it.

[danispeachy]

Pastor Murray and the Shepherds Chapel do not teach racism! Pastor Murray would not condone the racist propoganda of white superiority that Trent/John (whoever) promotes! There have been plenty of debates between John and SC students for it to be perfectly clear that they are not of like minds.


Personally I think godchild is a racist. She doesn't think that all the ethnic members of the SC congregation are intelligent enough to know when and if racist propaganda is being preached to them.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">HI Danis,

I agree, there are many different races of people which belong to SC. If Pastor Murray were teaching racism they wouldn't be there.

Actually there were some members of the Black race which had thanked PM. They said they looked down on themselves because of being taught, in mainstream churches, that the black race came about because of the curse Noah placed on Ham's son. They said that because of Pastor Murray teaching the truth of our Father's word, and showing that God created all the races on the 6th day and it was very good, this teaching freed them. I want to add, this was mentioned on the air for all to hear!

I also want to add, it is the mainstream churches which teach that awful stuff about the black race. And you know what, I have posted this before and not one nay sayer has said anything about this kind of teaching. So it makes me think that they believe it. I certainly pray this is not case. But why would they not speak against that kind of teaching? Instead they speak against PM who teaches all are created equally in the eyes of God. Go figure!</font>

[danispeachy]

Terri,
Some of the PM bashers are like Rabbit dogs... they don't think, they just attack. There is so much horror in the world today, you would think they could find something constructive to do. One particular organization I am a supporter of is iabolish. Did you know that slavery is still prevelent in the world? Even here in the USA. It's heart breaking to hear the stories. http://iabolish.com/ I pray these people open their minds and hearts and start to fight what really needs to be fought!

[watchman_2]

Off topic, but speaking of slavery, how is it that this great nation has allowed our government to make slaves out of us for most of each year?

Federal Income Tax independence Day is in May [I believe]. Then, there is State income tax, social security tax at 15.3% of earnings, and sales tax at over 8%. Then, when one considers that everything that we buy must cover the taxes of all that contributed to the production of the item, well, I believe that at least 75% of our money/time goes to fund government.

Then there is property tax. If you do not agree to every stupid assessment the government passes, the gov't will take your property to pay for it.

I thought that our gov't was formed to SERVE US -- not for us to serve.

[danispeachy]

Watchman,
Our gripe with taxes is quite different than slavery. If the US citizens joined together (united) tax laws could be chnaged.
Slavery is working in harsh conditions, against ones will for little or no money.
Please check out the iabolish site ... One victims story from Sudan is:
When Francis Bok was seven years old, his mother sent him to the local market to sell eggs and beans. Suddenly, government militia forces attacked, shooting adults and rounding up children. Francis saw one girl who would not stop crying get shot in the head. When her sister burst out crying, the soldiers chopped off her foot. Strapped to a donkey and taken north, Francis was given as a slave to one of the soldiers. The man's entire family came out to greet Francis - by beating him. Every day he was forced to tend cattle, and was beaten every morning. At age 17, he ran away. "I would rather die than be a slave," says Francis.

"government militia forces"!!! Thank God I'm an American!

[arron]

in our CHURCH we welcome all people regardless of the race they belong to for all can be saved who will trust in JESUS and believe on HIM. we are saved by THE BLOOD OF JESUS and not who we are. there are those who say the negro cant be saved but they can if they will believe, just as you and i can and are saved.

[danispeachy]

That's great Arron, Shepherds Chapel teaches the same thing.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">I agree with you arron. God loves all his children and salvation is open to all.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif</font>

[ezekiel_37]

Yes He does love all His children......

and the Shepherd's Chapel teaches that. Skin colour doesn't matter one little bit.

[skooter942000]

http://www.shepherdschapel.com/statement1.htm
http://www.shepherdschapel.com/statement2.htm
http://www.shepherdschapel.com/statement3.htm

[danispeachy]

Christianity in and of itself has a long history of oppression and intolerance towards other people. Look at the crusades! Religion tends to promote feelings of superiority period! As Christians we are taught that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. Therefore Christians are better than other religions. Judaism promotes the Jews as being the “Chosen” people. Thereby making them better than the other religions. Islam teaches that Muhammad is the prophet and all should do as he instructs even if it means cutting off the foot of a non-believer, only Muslims are blessed. Everybody can relate the bible, the torah, and the quran to fit their own agenda of intolerance if they so choose. Neither the Serpent seed doctrine nor the theory of the 10 lost tribes are racist ideals, however a racist can and has used them to further their own agenda. Just because 1 group believes &amp; teaches the Serpent Seed doctrine and also just so happens to twist it to fit their ALREADY racist ideals, doesn’t mean that every group who believes in the doctrine is a racist, or promotes racism. That is like saying that because a racist group believes in Jesus that all people who believe in Jesus are racist. It’s an UTTERLY RIDICULOS argument. People have said that Christianity is a barbaric religion, just look at what Christians have done throughout history. So should we gather that all Christians are barbaric?

Just look at yourself godchild; you are so utterly convinced that your interpretation of scripture is correct that you have stooped to spread lies and misinformation. You are intolerant to others views to the point that you have resorted to slander and name-calling. You have acted very hostile towards others. You are so convinced you are right that when we very politely told you that you have been misinformed we are not a racist group and we are not affiliated with racist groups you screamed about what liars we are. You are intolerant of us for absolutely no reason! You have presented yourself as being a bigot and not based on skin color but solely on the fact that instead of leaving people alone you attack!

We tell you that God loves all of his children and offers the same reward to all of his children and you tell us we are going to hell. Your intolerance shows that you are far more like the KKK and Neo Nazis than we will ever be!

[godchild]

I have to differ with you. Today I discovered after spending some time at the fig tree cafe, am/sc are affiliated (another lie). With Unitarians. Know what else I found. A teaching there: It is with great sorrow I tell you that Jesus is not God.

You belong to a cult. Plain and simple. Tomorrow I will share more of the sc lies, including what scer's haven't shared here.

In your way of thinking, you might consider not believing that Jesus is God is just another view of true Christianity. You are wrong. You teach and follow false doctrine. Believe what you want, but stop telling people you are Christian.

While I was reading some of the comments there, a thought occurred to me. You all have made a comparative analysis of the spelling of the word Cain (Cain, Kane) being a way of telling this is talking about the kenites. How sad it would be if every person were judged if his name was, say, Kenny. Or for lucifer, Lucy. What a pity you find time to twist scripture for your hateful agenda. So, if it fits for one, it should fit for the other. Any Kenny posting here or a Lucy must be a kenite. Isn't that a revealing statement, according to what you all believe! Can't argue it. Must just accept it.

[godchild]

Are you ashamed of your name, danis? Have anything to do with your teachings about Daniel? That's odd. Hope your first name doesn't start with a k.

[ezekiel_37]

you are a real big fool

D has 'hinted that you do not know this posters first name when it has been revealed.....

but believe what you want fool....

you have proven yourself over and over again to be against God's Word and that's that!

How many times have you seen our posts concerning Christ.....fool

lier and slanderer.....false witness.

Jesus is God.
there is that enough or will you mis represent this statement aswell.

Get a grip....the devil has you hook line and sinker.

Enjoy the trip

[danispeachy]

Actually I love my name! It means God is my judge. Maybe I should paraphrase for simplicity. God, not godchild, is my judge. :D

Have a blessed day Viv!

[skooter942000]

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.


Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.




http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif
Beware of those who do nothing but accuse and lie about the brethren.

- You know who you _R_.

You accuse.
You try and tempt the brethren.
You lie in wait to ready to accuse.
False accusations fly from your wicked MOUTH.

ALMIGHTY YAH is Watching
And Noting all that you say and do
(...in HIS name).




Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:


Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.


Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.


Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?


Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?


Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.



[Prov 6:16-19]!!!

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[Rev 20:11-13]!!!

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Skooter,

I absolutely loved what you have written!! Your post holds much truth.

God bless</font>http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[ezekiel_37]

Morning Ter, Skooter, Watchman,

just thought I'd say hi!

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Ezekiel!!!

I tried to pm you at the other place but you don't have it activated yet. I wanted to post more but I am still recovering. Hopefully soon I will be back to my old self.

But I do want to say...You are doing great!!!!</font>

[arron]

yes murray is a cult leader. as shown by some of the smart alec posts on here by one or two who are eatingup that garbage as fast as they can/ they cant show scripture but ask you for it and when you say give me scripture they say i have already shown it to be .

[ezekiel_37]

'tis true arron.

do you know what 'seed' means.

do you know that eve is already pregnant when adam 'knows' her.

Do you realise the message told when eve relays to the snake, the God's command, and adds the word 'touch' it.

You WILL have to go into the onriginal languages arron to receive the MEAT of the Word.

Without doing this, you will be locked into the traditions of man, that you find yourself trapped in.

I pray for you Brother, as you are deceived with false tongues, and will be among the first taken by the anti-Christ in the false rapture.

You owe yourself the truth. With all the different english translations, all saying slightly different things, the STUDENT of God's Word NEEDS to go to the original written language arron, or that is not giving God the proper respect that He deserves.

I hope you understand.

[godchild]

Romans 8:37-39
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 5:1-5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace to which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverence; and perseverence, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
John 16:33 <font color="ff0000">These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world, you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.</font>

[skooter942000]

- Continuing......



From Matthew 7:20


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Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[watchman_2]

skooter,

Beautiful post. It summarizes Christ's reaction to godchild, arron, preachers_daughter, and the other detractors who come here to subvert the Word of Truth, deny the scriptures, and commit iniquity.

[arron]

zeke you are a.. well a nut case... i am not deceived and i do not have to worry about being taken by the anti christ when the RAPTURE COMES for i will be in the number taken when JESUS TAKES HIS BRIDE THE CHURCH HOME.

[watchman_2]

Matt. 10:21-22,

"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Doesn't sound much like those that are 'raptured' away first are saved -- more like those that stay faithful to the end.

So, arron, enjoy your 'rapture'.

[arron]

i dont hate you watchman.. although i am not sure from some of your posts if you are my brother in CHRIST or not but no i would not deliver you up to death. i dont like your teachings i dont like your doctrine. i love your soul even if you dont not believe we have one ( i dont know how you are on this doctrine ) i do know i am saved and am going in the rapture. and i will enjoy it very much "see you in the rapture"

[watchman_2]

arron,

I know with your 'rapture' belief that you do not follow the true Christ. You will be a willing dupe for the anti-Christ.

So, I conclude that you are not in Christ and, since you will be an anti-Christ follower, you are not my brother.

See II John 9-10. Your false doctrine is not that of Christ, therefore you hath not God. I cannot even bid you well without sinning.

[arron]

o.k. watchman since you are not saved by CHRIST then you are not my brother and i will not have to regard you as such in the future. i will just know that you do not know THE LORD JESUS i will how ever continue to pray for you but now my prayer will be for your salvation instead of your enlightment. i am praying for you, old buddy

[ezekiel_37]

I'm a nutcase?

you believe in fairytails, and I'm a nutcase?
lol

godchilds quote above

<font color="0000ff">And not only that, but we glory in </font><font color="119911">tribulations</font><font color="0000ff">, knowing that </font><font color="119911">tribulation</font><font color="0000ff"> produces perseverence; and perseverence, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world, you will have </font><font color="119911">tribulation</font><font color="0000ff">; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.

</font>we are indeed here through the tribulation, all of it from the cross to the last generation and through all of that last generation.

[smyrna]

Arron says he follow's God's Word, but he thinks he is going to be raptured.

Follow this part of God's Word, Arron:


Ezekiel 13:20

"Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly."

Arron may also not realize that about 90% of Christianity does not believe nor have they ever taught of any rapture. And they never will.

Some cretin quoted St. Cyprian (Imagine, a Catholic bashing, anti-Chapel person quoting St. Cyprian to try and validate the rapture doctrine!)
in a ridiculous claim that he was talking about the rapture in the second century!

If that interpretation of Cyprian's writings were so correct, than why only fundamentalists believe that is what he was talking about?

[arron]

i dont think it I KNOW IT

[smyrna]

He won't understand it, but I'm giving it a try.
Pt. 1

What the Left Behind Series Left Out

A biblical text taken out of its original context can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.
One of the most amazing phenomena of recent Christian publishing is the remarkable success of Timothy LaHaye's Left Behind series. These novels have been outselling all other Christian literature, with the possible exception of the Bible itself.
It's not difficult to understand the popularity of these apocalyptic accounts. We live in uncertain times, a time of rapid change and considerable chaos. It is an age ripe for apocalyptic and eschatological speculation.
The Left Behind novels tap into the curiosity of many about what the future holds, and what the forces are that control our universe. They present an apocalyptic worldview that many conservative Christians find comforting and helpful as they try to live in an increasingly non-Christian environment.
Unfortunately, not all apocalyptic thinking is good apocalyptic thinking, and this is especially true of the so-called dispensational theology that informs these novels. The most distinctive feature of dispensational theology is what I call the "Beam me up, Scotty" belief—the notion that at the end-time, believers will be raptured into heaven and will thus avoid the Great Tribulation forecast as the precursor to the end of the world.
This rapture is of course not for every generation of Christians but only for those who are living at the time the Great Tribulation breaks out. Previous generations of Christians simply had to endure, persevere and even give up their lives on occasion. It is worth asking why anyone should think that only the last generation before the tribulation should be exempt from martyrdom. After all one can do no more than give one's life for the faith. Why should the last generation of Christians expect to do less cross-bearing than previous ones? Members of the "beam me up" school claim to base their thinking on the Book of Revelation and other apocalyptic portions of the New Testament. But their biblical interpretations are unwarranted. John's message is the same for 21st-century readers as it was for his first-century audience.
First, all of the New Testament books were written for the edification of first-century Christians. The idea that John of Patmos, the author of Revelation, intended his message to be understood only by a late-20th- or 21st-century Western Christian audience is not only arrogant—it flies in the face of what John himself writes in Revelation 2-3. Here, John states quite clearly that his intended audience was Christians in western Asia Minor at the end of the first century A.D.
These Christians were familiar with the legacy of Jewish apocalyptic literature, and they knew very well that while this literature was meant to be referential (referring back to real-life events), it was not meant to reveal detailed specifics about the distant future. The idea, for example, that the Book of Revelation has coded references to events that wouldn't take place for hundreds of years (say, to Saddam Hussein, oil in Kuwait or the crisis in Afghanistan, as some dispensationalists claim) would have made no sense at all to the original audience for whom these prophecies were written. Apocalyptic literature offers multivalent symbols that can be applied equally well to war, famine, persecution or earthquake in any and every generation of Christian history.

[smyrna]

Farewell to the Rapture:

http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm

I know this is probably useless, but once again I'm willing to try. Deaf ears are deaf ears, I guess, but there is always hope.

[danispeachy]

I feel like putting in my 2 cents here....

I Think the best verses one can disregard any pre-tribulation rapture thought is Mat 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

When? After the Tribulation.

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

After the Tribulation Jesus comes!

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus tells us straight out, no if's and's or but's about it. No need to argue or debate. Jesus tells us after the tribulation he comes. Not before, not during, AFTER the tribulation.

Unless one wishes to just admit that they believe their Pastor over Jesus, or admit they think Jesus is a liar, there is no need to argue about it.

AFTER THE TRIBULATION JESUS COMES!

[smyrna]

Very good points danispeachy,

No Church taught the Rapture prior to the early 1800's. Something so crucial to Christian teachings, one would think, would have been taught for the last two thousand years!

In addition, God warned about those who would
teach people to fly to save their souls in Ezekiel 13:10.
On top of that, virtually all rapture teachers can't agree when the rapture will happen, their theology is so lacking in precision: They have pre, mid, and post tribulation positions.

They even argue over the mark of the beast. Tatoo, bar code, computer chip, alien implant are the top choices.

Anti-Christ: The Pope, or the head of the Bilderberger Society, the Tri-Lateral Commission, or the Priori Di Sion, the latter gaining new popularity with the Da Vinci Code.

Have you ever noticed that most of these people get their theological ideas from Hollywood, and Medieval art work?