Answering followers of Arnold MurraySheph Chapel

[godchild]

Cult Serpent Seed Exhibits



a.. 1:In the midst of the Garden of Eden were two trees.»True
a.. 2:The tree of life is a manifestation of God.»True
a.. 3:Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, a manifestation of Satan.»True
a.. 4:The serpent was a creature half human half animal.»False
a.. 5:The serpent could mix with the human race and he did.»False
a.. 6:The devil entered into the serpent and made Eve pregnant.»False
a.. 7:After the curse the serpent became a snake.»False
a.. 8:Adam created in the image of God could not sin.»False
a.. 9:Eve was not in the original creation.»False
a.. 10:Eve was an after thought, created weak so she could sin.»False
a.. 11:Man had to fall into sin so God could prove he was a Saviour.»False
a.. 12:Cain and Abel were twins.»True
a.. 13:Cain was a literal first born son of the Serpent.»False
a.. 14:Eve was the Mother of all living.»True
a.. 15:Adam was not the Father of all living.»False
cont.

[godchild]

Exhibit 1: And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of Good and evil. Gen.2:9

Exhibit 2: Christ the power of God and the Wisdom of God; 1Cor.1:24; Wisdom is a Tree of Life, Pro.3:18

Exhibit 3: You need revelation to understand.

Exhibit 4&5: This quotation from end time cults make of no effect the Word, "God made of one blood all nations of men" Acts 17:26

Exhibit 6: The serpent, the dragon, the deviland Satan are one and the same creature. Rev.12:9; 20:2

Exhibit 7: After the curse the serpent who could manifest in human form became the dragon. The serpent of Rev.12 is not a snake.

Exhibit 8: Adam willfully sinned, Adam freely chose to hearken unto the voice of his wife. Gen.3:17

Exhibit 9&10: Eve had to be in the original plan because God called their name Adam. Adam in the image and likeness of God was also a compound being. Gen.5:2

Exhibit 11: God who created man does not have to prove He can repair him.

Exhibit 12: Twin conceptions is the fulfillment of God's word; "I will
multiply they conception" Gen.3:16; Jacob and Esau were twins by the same father. Rom.9:10 Esau whom God hated was never a literal descendant of the serpent, Isaac a son of promise was his father.

Exhibit 13: It's impossible for a fallen cherub who is a spirit creature to mix with a creature of flesh and blood.

Exhibit 14: True Gen.3:20

Exhibit 15: Adam has to be the father of the entire human race as the scriptures declare; "In Adam all die" 1Cor.15:22

[godchild]

Case for the Prosecution against the literal Serpent Seed Doctrine

1: Before God could use the dust of the earth to form flesh and blood living
creatures, God spoke reproductive DNA to the earth; "Let the earth bring
forth the living creature after his kind," The word of God cannot return
unto him void. Man cannot bring forth animals, nor can animals bring forth
humans. When man crosses two species of animals they get a hybrid animal
that cannot reproduce it's self. You need to know that when God formed man
and the animals from the dust of the earth, this dust had already been
ordained to reproduce after it's own kind.Gen.1:24 (And the Lord God formed
man of the dust of the ground, Gen.2:7; and out of the ground the Lord God
formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; Gen.2:19)

a.. 2: Terrestrial flesh creatures have their life support in the blood.
Lev.17:11
a.. 2a:Celestial creatures are spirits that cannot reproduce. Mtt.22:30;
Mk.12:25
a.. 3: Elect angels can manifest in human form. Before the curse, the
serpent which is the devil and Satan(Rev.12:9; 20:2) could manifest in human
form and he did when he deceived the Woman, in Eden.
a.. 4: Angels are an order of creation higher than man, they cannot die,
they cannot reproduce, they cannot mix with human flesh and blood creatures.
Fallen angels are held in chains of darkness. Jude 1:6
a.. 5 A hybrid creature has no reproductive seed within itself. The serpent
who is Satan and the devil, cannot mix with the human race, and bring forth
a hybrid offspring called Cain.

A More Subtle Lie


The Serpent Seed Heresy Doctrine

This particular end time doctrine teaches that Satan entered into the
serpent who was a special creation part animal and part human. This beast
was designed by God for the purpose of mixing with the human race, the end
time message serpent is the missing link in the evolution between the
chimpanzee and man. ( Homo erectus ) This beast of an animal was close
enough to the human race that he could talk and reason and was able to mate
(have knowledge) with Eve and this intercourse with the woman, the serpent
was able to produce a son called Cain. Summary, Eve mated first with the
serpent and then she mated with Adam and from these two pregnations, Eve had
twins, a son called Cain from the serpent and a son called Abel from Adam.
After the curse every bone in the body of the serpent disappeared, leaving
no trace of an upright creature who is now become a snake. The implication,
the descendants of Adam mixed with the daughters of men who were descendants
of Cain and produced giants.
cont.

[godchild]

God wanting to end this tragedy sent a flood to destroy this combo race of
half human half animal creatures. God selected Noah, his wife, Noah's three
sons and their wives who were the only remaining pure descendants of Adam.
God commanded Noah to build an ark to save himself and his household, but
the devil not wanting to loose the war made sure Hams wife would be pregnant
with the serpent race before she got on board the ark. Before the confusion
of tongues at the tower of Babel, the human race once again mixed with the
descendants of the serpent (Ham's grand children) and today , the mixture of
the descendants of Noah with the grand children of Ham is so well mixed up,
that no one really knows who's from who these days. A claim was made. There
is one way to find out, if you accept the end time message teaching coming
from the sermons of the end time prophet Elijah, you are a predestinated
descendant of Adam, if you reject the serpent seed doctrine as taught in the
end time message, then you are of your father the devil, and a descendant of
the serpent and unable to receive spiritual truth. This also means, that
outside the end time message there is no salvation, a saying taken from the
mother of denominational religion. The evidence for this heresy comes from
several end time messages preached by the late William Branham, the prophet
of Malachi 4.

>From Message, Serpent's Seed, preached in Jeff. IN September 28/1958

a.. v21. The serpent is that missing person between the chimpanzee and the
man.
a.. v22. he's between the chimpanzee and the man. And the devil, Lucifer,
knew that that was the only blood that would mix with this human blood.

>From - Questions and Answers preached in Jeffersonville IN. August 23/1964

But there was an animal, the serpent, so close to man that Satan could get
to that beast, and through that beast he could get to human flesh and cause
the fall, and inject himself thereby into the human race.
cont.

[godchild]

From - Questions and Answers preached in Jeffersonville IN. August 30/1964

a.. v313: the only way this serpent could plant the seed, he was the only
animal next to the human being. For in the evolution of mankind, when
man --- God brood upon the earth ... and He begin to bring up birds, and
the --- from birds He come to different things, then the chimpanzee to the
serpent.
a.. v314 Now, He changed that serpent in such a way that would confuse this
generation, who's trying to find a bone like some kind of an animal (that
was part man and part animal)

>From a message, Power of Transformation, preached in Prescot AZ. October
31/1965

v128 And - and Satan was the next link here, this serpent was the next thing
to man, from a chimpanzee, stand between man and the chimpanzee. And it's so
hid by taking him down, not even a bone in him looks like a man, see, making
him a reptile.

>From a Message, The Ephesian Church Age

This beast was so close to a human being, (and yet was pure animal), that he
could reason and talk. He was an upright creature ( homo erectus ) and was
somewhat between a chimpanzee and a man, but closer to a man. He was so
close to a human being that his seed could and did mingle with that of the
woman and cause her to conceive. But man and animal did mix. That's one of
the mysteries that has remained hidden (until the time of the end) but here
it is revealed.

The closing argument for the Prosecution


a.. Every doctrine should be weighted from the book of Genesis, the book of
Revelation and at Calvary.
a.. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil
and Satan. Rev.12:9
a.. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the devil,
and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev.20:2

The serpent is still active against the woman and the remnant of her seed
the bride of Christ today. After the curse the serpent who at one time could
manifest in human form became the dragon. Gen.3:14 It's the dragon who is
cast out of heaven, and it's the serpent who casts out of his mouth water as
a flood after the woman, Rev.12:15
cont.

[godchild]

The Flesh of Jesus Christ, evidence for the Prosecution

a.. For a redeemer to qualify as a redeemer,
a.. He had to be a near kinsman
a.. He had to have the power
a.. He had to have the price to redeem. Lev.25:49;
a.. It's evident that Jesus Christ had both the power and the price to
redeem lost mankind.

a.. The flesh of Jesus Christ exposes serpent seed doctrine heresy.
a.. The justice of God requires an eye for an eye and life for life.
Deu.19:21
a.. The price required to redeem corrupt human flesh is sinless human flesh
and blood.
a.. Only the sinless human flesh of Jesus qualified to redeem human flesh,
He was made in the:
a.. Likeness of sinful flesh. Rom.8:3
a.. Likeness of men. Phil.2:7
a.. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his
brethren. Heb.2:17,

All flesh is not the same flesh. 1Cor.15:39

a.. Apostle Paul a witness for the prosecution, declares;
a.. "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men,
a.. another flesh of beasts, another flesh of fishes, and another of birds."
1Cor.15:39

a.. For verily he (Jesus) took not on him the nature of angel!!! Heb.2:16;
a.. Jesus did not take upon himself the nature or flesh of animals or
beasts,
a.. nor flesh that was half human and half animal. Jesus is the second Adam.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have Everlasting life.
Jn.3:16

a.. Apostle John a witness for the prosecution, said; "
a.. He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only,
a.. but for the sins of the whole world" 1Jn.2:2
a.. For Jesus Christ to qualify as the redeemer of the sins of the entire
human race,
a.. there cannot be even a smidgen of animal flesh in any human being.
a.. Cain and his descendants could not be part human and part animal.

Ye shall know the truth, and the Truth shall make you free Jn.8:32

The prosecution rests it's case upon the Word of God

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the Word of their testimony.
--Vivian and friends of Jesus Christ
Psalm 118:8

[ezekiel_37]

The way that some define the Serpent Seed doctrine does not mean that ALL define it the same way!

The Word is the final authority and not a hearing infront of man's courts.

your statements above do not support what we collectively believe.

you are again mis representing people and being a false witness.

Point #4
I know of no place that a SC student has ever mentioned that Satan was a half human half animal. Nor have we ever stated that Cain and his decendants were part animal and part human.
I challenge you to prove your unwarrented accusation.

Point#5-6

The devil could mix and did mix, as did the other fallen angels as seen in Gen 6 and Jude

The devil never entered the serpent because they are the same being, symbolic names.

Point #7
We have never taught this since we believe that the tree of Konwlege of Good and Evil IS the Serpent who is the devil! Never was a literal snake. A brilliant shiny one but not a serpent. Symbolic name

Point#8
We have never taught that Adam never sinned.
Infact, just the opposite.....we know that he did!


Point#10
Eve was NEVER an after thought
The plan of God started before the flesh age.
Adam and Eves, placement, in the Garden, 1000's of years after the Creation of Mankind in Gen 1, was always part of that plan... so no after thought.

after the 7th day Sabbath which is after the 6th day creation, but not an after thought.

Point#11
Before the written word, sin was not revealed.

The sin is revealed by His Word and teachings.
The Law revealed this nature of Sin to the Hebrew peoples and now to the rest of the world.

The Savior was to be born and Crucified for us, not to reveal this sin but to Cover All sins in His Holy Blood! We can NEVER live up to the Law...that's what the unmarrited grace of God is for, for everlasting life is indeed a GIFT of GOd
We can't live up to the letter of the Law, although we can sure try!

Point#14-15
Eve is the Mother of Christ's lineage...
All of us have to go through Christ to get to eternity, and Eve is thus the Symbolic mother of all who are going to be Spiritually alive forever in Paradise.

Adam is the Father of the Adamic people, who's description is given multiple times, and cannot be the decendant of any of the ethnic races.

I don't even think that evolutionists believe that a peoples skin and DNA can change in only a few thousand years to create the different races......race mixing then and today...yes...but all the different races comming through 1 race is not scientifically possible nor biblical.

So, where ever you plagiarized this from, for what ever purpose, at least get your facts strait before you start ACCUSING people of what they follow. You should know by now that we follow Christ.

The points that I have not addressed from your first post in this thread are at least stated properly and held by us to be in the Word! Whether you choose to believe them or not, is up to you...God can do it with or without you Vivian...

Stop 'GROUPING' us with all others who believe the Serpent had sexual relations with Eve.

All of our beliefs are from the Word and not from some man or tradition. You would do well to understand that.
You would do better to STOP your false witness.

Anyone else wish to comment feel free.....

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">OH my goodness Vivian! Where in the world do you dig up this garbage?

Quote:
This particular end time doctrine teaches that Satan entered into the
serpent who was a special creation part animal and part human.
End Quote

You got to be kidding...right?
The serpent is satan. He did not enter into a serpent...lol Read Rev.12..satan is the dragon, the serpent...the devil. The serpent is satan himself!

Matter of fact Viv, your whole post one big crock!

Good day Ezekiel
You said quote:
The points that I have not addressed from your first post in this thread are at least stated properly and held by us to be in the Word! Whether you choose to believe them or not, is up to you...God can do it with or without you Vivian...
End Quote

LOL God does not need Vivian's help. His word is true and stands as written.</font>

[danispeachy]

I wish they had a rolling eyes icon....

"rolls eyes at Vivian."

Well if Vivian says WE believe it then it must be true...who cares that we never said/posted it right? I mean she knows all about Pastor Murray and SC without ever listening to him. Once again she attempts to sit in the mercy seat and tell us what's in our heart.

*Rolls eyes with a big yawn*

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Dani

Quote:
I mean she knows all about Pastor Murray and SC without ever listening to him.
End Quote

LOL That part really gets me! lololol</font>

[watchman_2]

What's wrong godchild?? Is the Serpent Seed Flaws thread not good enough for you?? Or, is the truth starting to get to you?? Better for you to start all over again with another thread filled with lies about the Doctrine.

I think that you ought to give up on SC. You are overmatched here by the truth of God's Word. Maybe you should redirect your efforts to the Benny Hinn thread. You might have better luck over there.

[danispeachy]

She won't have luck anywhere until she 1st gets a good handle on scripture and 2nd learns how to debate effectively. If this were a High School debate team she would have failed the class long ago. 3rd, she needs to let the love of Jesus in her heart and let the hate of Satan out. 4th she needs to understand that our hearts are already directed to God, but there are millions out there whose hearts are not. Focusing on the non-believers is what God would want.

[godchild]

Of course I have stated there is a problem for all of you because while all claiming to be followers of am/sc you all share differing beliefs.

danis, Your comment that focusing on non-blievers is what I do, while you focus on believers in the hopes you can draw them away from Christianity. Thank God your numbers are few.

There are million and millions and millions who believe as I do. And they also agree that you follow someone who is not a Christian but uses the words of antichrists.

You have fictionalized the creation to say that Eve and Adam had sex with satan and you say that I have satan in my heart. Oh No. It is you who do not have the Holy Spirit guiding your life. At one time, I followed the false teachings of a false prophet, but now I am a new creature in Christ and have received the forgiveness and the Gift of the Holy Spirit which is promised to all who believe in Him. (Romans 6:4-6)

[godchild]

Please read the book of Obadiah. You are like the Edomites. Everything you say about Israel shows you follow them. Please read Isa. 34. vs. 2 Edom is "devoted to destruction". Edom will be returned to chaos. vs. 34;17 As God gave Israel (who you try to destroy with your words and allusions) the Promised Land by lot in the sacred assembly, (Josh.18:10) so in His judgment he divided Edom among the unclean animals: pelican, owl, porcupine and raven (pagan deities).

[danispeachy]

Vivian,
You're full of it. What more is there to say? You spew rubbish, because you can't combat our arguements with scripture. I could care less if millions believe as you do. Look at the numbers of those who are saved...very small in comparision. You go ahead and follow the crowd instead of believing Gods word. Your salvation is not my problem. I follow God not man regardless of your attempts to say otherwise.

[ezekiel_37]

godchild reminds me of the accusors in the book of Job....

always long winded and speaking of matters that they do not fully understand.

Job took the 'crap' for a long time .....

but not forever...and righteous Job was doubley blessed.

Peace
c

[arron]

and you zeke remind me of satan who is the accuser of the brethren

[watchman_2]

You assume that you are the 'brethren'. To me, you are the accuser. Remember 5 out of the 7 churches are judged disfavorably [Rev. 2 and 3]. You are part of the 5.

[arron]

and you must be the seveneth of which was spewed out of THE LORDS MOUTH

[watchman_2]

Sorry arron -- I know whom comprise the synagogue of Satan. I am of the 2 that meet with Christ's satisifaction.

[arron]

well i am of THE BRIDE who will go in THE RAPTURE when THE LORD COMES FOR US. PRAISE GOD. THAT IS ALL I WILL SAY

[watchman_2]

Happy marriage to anti-christ! Please leave me off your guest list.

[arron]

praise GOD FOR THE RAPTURE FOR SPEAKING IN TONGUES FOR GIFTS OF THE HOLY GHOST.

[ezekiel_37]

you arrogant child

[preachers_daughter]

watchman

I don't have much time to spend here. This is a very busy weekend, but I would like to say one thing, while I have a few minutes.

You and you 'friends' complain if godchild, or anyone else is blunt with you, and refer to us as childish, yet you speak to people the way that you do. Looks, to me, as if they have it completely backwards. You show no respect for anyone that disagrees with you. How shallow, how immature, and how un-Christ like.

[arron]

zeke old buddy i am a CHILD OF GOD. and i do pray i am not arrogant. most have said i am real nice.

[plow_deep]

preachers_daughter

Its not a fair assumption to go by these last few posts as an example of watchmans or godchild and arrons overall exchanges, as many who pop in and out would be led to believe by your above post.

If one were to go back and read all the threads throughly they would find much much more abuse is heaped on watchman then he dishes out.

I dont condone the behavior in the above posts but only believe that watchman deserves a fair asessment in he is just being, as you say 'your' friends are being, 'blunt' in defending himself.

watchman falls short in anger at times, I'm sure he knows it. He is only human.
Its wonderful Jesus Christ is a forgiving Master.

Dont you agree?

[preachers_daughter]

Yes, I agree that it is wonderful That Jesus Is a forgiving Master. Where would we be, if He was't?

I try to show respect, to all I speak to, even though it is difficult at times, and I may fail, but I also feel that it is good to turn the other cheek, and show kindness, not act in a manner that you complain of others doing. It does nothing for ones character. Yes, we disagree [and I will firmly stand up for what I believe] but, I still feel we should show each other respect. I guess I was taught more about respecting people, than some others were.

When I first started posting here, I had respect for him [still do, but it is not easy]. He spoke with me, politely I might add, and I found myself getting deeper into the word, because of our conversations. Now, he seems to be rude to those he disagrees with. I feel that one can disagree, without being childish, rude, and demanding [had to throw that last one in].


Don't you think kindness, and respect are more productive than name calling and immaturity?


Have a wonderful day plow_deep

[watchman_2]

preachers_daughter,

godchild can speak for her own actions. She has a long history of terrorizing these threads. She can be as blunt as she wants -- it does not bother me. Also, her beliefs are her business.

However, when she repeatedly mischaracterizes God's Truth that we present here, I do take exception. Finally, she has been given an order to cease and desist with bearing such false witness.

I show all the respect that you detractors deserve. The bottom line is that none of you can admit that you are wrong [defeats the purpose for which you came here]. That is the point that I lose respect.

If you detractors do not have the integrity to admit the veracity of the scriptures presented as evidence of my position or come back with a rebuttal scriptural argument, then you have disrespected the debate process to the point that effective civil communication is no longer warranted.

At that point, I must insist upon you detractors to provide the readers your concession on the theological debate. You workers of iniquity are very quick to change the subject or throw a bunch of insults my way in order to avoid providing the readers your admission of being wrong and concession that God's Word, as I have presented it, is true.

For the readers, I'll take a stroll through memory lane here. preachers_daughter and I began discussing the scriptures on the Religious Leaders/ - Arnold Murray thread. If you go back to my posts of April 28 and 29 [# 306 and 309] you will see that I first state that her theology is false. She comes back on April 29, #55, stating that I am "excuse" making.

I responded with THANKING HER on April 30, #314, for her correction of an earlier post that I made. However, I still maintained that her theology is false [and it is]. She came back with words like 'twisted' etc.

So, folks, if there is anyone to blame for uncivil discourse it is preachers_daughter.

[plow_deep]

preachers_daughter

I totally agree everyone should debate with kindness and respect whenever possible.

I've been following these posts for a long time and the best example of such would be one who is called abiyah. She by far outshines all who post here with her ability to show kindness and respect when debating the issues.

Shes sets a good example of proper christian behavior in matters of courteous civil discourse.

Abiyah's example of debate is something we all can learn from.

Dont you agree?

watchman,

Please excuse me for presuming to speak on your behalf over anger issues, that was wrong of me.
Quick to anger has always been a shortcoming of my own and is a daily struggle with me.
Studying Gods Word the last few years has me tremendously, in getting it under control.

As I have stated before, I've been reading these threads for a long time and you are correct in that being unable to clearly prove your theology incorrect with scriptures alone, many without failure turn to twisting, baiting, and smearing with insults.

Its been proven over and over and its also a really great that factnet no longer allows these folks to delete their posts as many did in the past.

All one has to do is to examine the threads in detail to see watchman is correct as to when 'the fur starts flying'.

Peace to you all,
and may you have a blessed day.

[preachers_daughter]

watchman

Let's see.

Arnold Murray thread.

I also thanked you for speaking with me, and because of our conversations, I was getting into the Word more.

Yes, I did use the term twisted, when referring to Am and his theology [post #85]

Let's look at the definition of twisted.
To wrench, contort, to confuse, to distort, to pervert the meaning of.

I was in NO WAY calling you twisted.

Now, let's look a little more.

Same thread.
You called us shameful [post #350]
Called godchild an idiot [post #387]

That was when I first made a comment of how you were speaking to others [post #95]

Your reply; " godchild deserves eve insult thrown her way and a lot more." [post #393]

On other threads, all still pertaining to Am or the SC beliefs.

You called godchild a hypocrite [post #435]
You called arron crazy [post # 439]
You called david a hypocrite [post #381]
You said david lacked intelligence {post #383]
You called arron a hypocrite [post #401]
You said I appeared to be demented [post #352]
You made a harsh remark towards arron about 'being married to the anti-christ [post #452]

(then had a cow when he turned around and judged you)

You pretty much, in an around about way, told arron he wasn't a christian [post #437]

Now you are 'crying because I called AM and his teachings twisted, and said you were making excuses for not answering me? Oh my how we have double standards. Must be that do as I say not as I do thing. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif WAAAAAAAAAAAA




[ And yes, I did refer to your actions as child like, immature, and un-Christ like. Your actions.]

[franklin]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[preachers_daughter]

I must make a correction on my previous post.

The use of the word "excuse" [my post # 55] that watchman is speaking of, is to the fact that he had been shown the definition of Adam in Gen. 1:27 &amp; 2:7, and after some debate agreed that they were the same [he even admitted that he did so in the above post #457].



Then, after realizing that it did not support the SC doctrine [ go back and read the thread] he came back to try and say that the word had been misinterpreted. That is when I said he was making excuses.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

[watchman_2]

preachers_daughter,

You can insult me all day long -- its water off a duck's back. However, when you insult the truth of God's Word, I do take exception. God will not be mocked and you surely will pay for your iniquity.

The descriptions provided of godchild, David Munson, and arron are quite accurate. Those that believe in the 'rapture' are preparing for the marriage feast of the antichrist. Again, very accurate and Biblically supported. Those that knowingly or unknowingly follow the 'rapture' theory do not have the Doctrine of Christ. II John 9-10 are clear.

I did answer all of your questions, but one, which will be provided once you legitimately and objectively respond to the questions I raised to you. When that subject is complete and I have your concession, we can move on to the next subject.

[preachers_daughter]

Where did I insult you?

[watchman_2]

preachers_daughter,

I don't know if you insulted me or not. Like I said, you can insult me and it does not bother me. But, I hold the Word of God precious and do not care for your characterization of the scriptures as twisted, etc. You may not like or agree with the interpretation that I have made of the scriptures, but please do not insult God's Word. As a detractor, you are certainly far above the others. Because you have demonstrated some class here, I wrongly expected a little more objectivity from you.

I should always be mindful that most detractors come to these threads with a preconceived notion that we belong to a cult and are in dire need of help. I don't live my life that way and disregard others opinions until I have evaluated the situation myself and formulate my own opinion. Unfortunately, I expect objectivity from intelligent people, which is to my detriment. Eventhough I considered you intelligent from the beginning, I should not have made the link to objectivity as well.

Your motives are well established now and I know that you are a detractor instead of a debater/seeker of truth. However, as you can see from Factnet, mudslinging is unproductive. However, it is necessary since there are invaders here to destroy God's truth. These people will be made God's footstool.

[ezekiel_37]

When preachers daughter and watchman2 posted on the 'eth ha adam' issue, I was going to put my 2 cents in but decided to let the two take THEIR own course in the discussion.

I believe that I have some relevant info that may help. The way that the language is used indicates that the words used (eth ha adam)were each correct unto their subject.

Wish to discuss?

[preachers_daughter]

watchman.

As I have stated before [somewhere, maybe another thread] I was looking for info on a ministry [ not PM's] and this is one of the sites I found. Needless to say I was shocked by what I was 'hearing'. People, who claimed to be christians, biting each others heads off, and acting like enemies. If we have confessed and repented of our sins, if we believe that Jesus Christ is God's son, and that He died and rose again on the third day, if we accept Him as our Savior and live for Him each day, are we not family? Shouldn't we act more like it? [at least a sane one, anyway. Too many crazy ones already out there]

As I was looking through this site I began to read different threads. After a few weeks I noticed the AM thread. That really caught my attention because, as I have stated before, I used to watch the SC and listen to PM and his teachings. After reading for a while, I asked a question about the creation events, and the beliefs of those here. I then looked into the different bibles and study helps being suggested, to see what they said, and even took it a bit farther, by going and looking at the writings in original Hebrew. I was enjoying the fact that I was getting so deep into the Word, searching out the meaning of each word. Yes, I study the Bible, and use the Strong's a good bit, but never so much as I have in the past several weeks.


You believe that I interpret Gods word incorrectly, I believe you do. Therein lies the reason for the debate.

I never said the Word was twisted, I said that it is being twisted. One can take a single verse from the Word and make a false doctrine out of it, twisting it, making it say something that it really doesn't. We've seen many people do that. You can turn on the TV and see numerous people twisting the Word. The Word is not twisted, the interpretation is. The Word is perfect. It is the different interpretations that are not. Once again, I believe I am correct, you believe you are.

The term detractor was/is used by PM quite a lot [at least when I watched him, he used it all the time]. He calls us detractors, so you all do. That my friend is nothing but 'repeating the pastor'. Detractor means 'one who takes away or impairs the reputation of another, one who attempts to lessen the worth or honor of another. We interpret the word differently, yet because I do not agree with you, you use this term to describe me. Could I not say the same?

I enjoyed our conversations, in the beginning, but I guess I felt a little let down, and disappointed, when you began to name call. I did not see that coming. I guess I shouldn't hold people up to such standards. It saves on the disappointments.

I have an idea. Let's start with a clean slate.
I miss the politeness of our debating.

I do apologize. Not for my beliefs though. No way!




ezekiel

If we can keep it civil and polite, I'm listening.

I have much to do, so I must go.

[watchman_2]

preachers_daughter,

I will do my best to keep it civil with you.

Please do not try to read anything into the mudslinging with others. Sometimes it is necessary to insult/humiliate people to get them to pay attention to the word of God. It is a tactic only -- I much prefer civil discourse. Simply, quoting a scripture to these detractors has no effect.

I have use other words than 'detractor' to describe these people. You picked up on a few of them. I have also referred to them as 'hecklers'. However, the term 'detractor' is quite appropriate for those that are here to take away or diminish the truth of God's Word.

Yes, if I were invading your church's threads and telling you and all of your like-minded friends that you were cultist, blasphemers, and heretics for your beliefs, I would imagine that I would be labeled far worse than a 'detractor'.

I was unaware that PM used the word 'detractor' as well. I thought that he called them 'critics' most of the time. Per your request, I will introduce a different word.

Nonetheless, detractor or not, one would think that everyone could conduct themselves in a civil manner. As you have witnessed, theory and practice are not the same.

You posed the question of whether we are all in the same family. My answer is no. There was a post that I made to arron two days ago that succinctly addressed this issue. One has to make a determination as to those issues that are a difference in opinion and those that represent doctrines that are not of Christ. Applying II John 9-10, I conclude that rapture followers are not my family.

[arron]

you can ask but you willnever get an answer just runarounds

[watchman_2]

arron,

So true! We never get an admission of the truth of God's Word from you detractors -- only denials and runarounds.

[smyrna]

Folks,

Those of you are tired of the ridiculous posts authored by llm, Franklin, Godchild, and Munsun, should follow my lead, and instead of engaging them, just use the acronym I used in the above post.

WOTNWR:

"WASTE OF TIME, NOT WORTH REBUTTAL"

Because we know that it isn't worth it. Not with those people, for reasons that are quite evident, at least those individuals who will take their time to read these discussion boards.

Doing this will free up your time to engage in sensible discussions with more reasonable people.

Reasonable does not mean they must agree with you, but that they will at least be able to comprehend and follow a discussion, without totally screwing it up, like our panel of circus clowns have been able to consistently accomplish, and exhibit.