The False Prophet and his Role in Satans plan [Archive]

terluvire

07-27-2006, 03:54 AM

Hi dani,

I believe that the false prophet and the beast are roles which satan plays. Read this verse:

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Now we know that anyone who has ever been in the flesh, if they are judged guilty, do not go into the lake of fire until the end of the millenium after the Great White Throne of Judgment. That verse takes place before judgment day.

I believe that when satan is released at the end of the millenium he will not be able to deceive anyone with those roles. He's not afforded them again. His roles are done away with.

Any other thoughts any one?

danispeachy

07-27-2006, 04:22 AM

I guess what I'm really having trouble grasping.
Is which role comes at which time.

The 2 beasts are a Political and a Religious systems? Who heads up the Political system, if Satan as the false lamb (not flesh?) heads up the religious system and the False Prophet (flesh?)? is his little sidekick I imagine that the False Prophet is present during the religious system.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

This is the Political beast? This correlates with 17:3? (So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.)

This is happening at the same time?

17:18, (And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.) This has the women as being a city... Is that as in The leader of the 1 world system or the system in and of itself?

Does my confusion make any sense?

godchild

07-28-2006, 08:26 PM

dani, I'm really surprised that you brought your questions here. I noted you were asking the same questions on the fig tree back in Jan. and there were a lot of responses for you. At the end you stated you understood.

I am equally surprised none of your fellow members have offered input for you yet. I would do my best to help answer your questions, but do not think you would appreciate or accept any opinions other than the ones given by them. I do pray that you find the answers you seek. God bless you,
Vivian

ezekiel_37

07-28-2006, 09:35 PM

Hello friend....

I guess what I'm really having trouble grasping.
Is which role comes at which time. 

first half...political....fallen angels...Satan not here yet...

second half....religious....Satan here for the final half hour.

False prophet being pope? I don't think that the false prophet is anyone else but Satan himself, play acting Jesus. Christ was many things, including a prophet. The devil will be the false Jesus, hence the false prophet.

People that break away from the RCC seem to believe that the false prophet will be a man....the pope.

The 2 beasts are a Political and a Religious systems? Who heads up the Political system, 

The fallen angels divide the power among themselves...Daniel suggests 10 heads of state

if Satan as the false lamb (not flesh?) heads up the religious system and the False Prophet (flesh?)? is his little sidekick I imagine that the False Prophet is present during the religious system. 

I cannot see the false prophet as a man (flesh) but rather Satan (another of his roles).

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

This is the Political beast? 

Yes! IMO

This correlates with 17:3? (So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.) 

Yes! The whole chapter of Rev17 tells us who and what the symbols are.

The woman is the controlling city of the world...Babylon. Some believe this to be Jerusalem, however I believe it is the hypothetical capital of Babylon....most likely centered in Rome (7 hills)...

This is happening at the same time? 

I do not know the reference you are looking to understand here. Mystery Babylon is formed politically first, and then after Satan arrives, he turns that system religious. Maybe you could restate the question with more detail.

17:18, (And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.) This has the women as being a city... Is that as in The leader of the 1 world system or the system in and of itself? 

I think it is everything that makes up the system. The headquarters and the people and the leaders and the ideals.

Does my confusion make any sense?

Absolutely....but confusion does clear up with more study....as I well know and can attest to.

Keep it up....Hope that I helped...If I can help in another way....please ask.

In His service
c

terluvire

07-29-2006, 12:48 AM

Thanks Ezekiel for helping dani.

I just got my computer working just this minute.

I'm so sorry dani that I couldn't reply, my computer wouldn't keep the connection. It was so frustrating!! But now everything is "A" ok. We fixed the problem...Yeah!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

danispeachy

07-29-2006, 06:09 AM

No prob Terri, I know you've been having connection issues lately.

Zeke, thanks for the response!

I don't understand the False Prophet being the same "entity" as the AntiChrist.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

If the False Prophet is Satan then how is Satan cast into the lake of fire where the False Prophet is? Leads one to believe their are 2 entities. Then too how is the beast (if it's a system) in hell?

Thanks :D

ezekiel_37

07-29-2006, 08:00 AM

I understand...This is speaking of roles...titles...and the false prophet, the fake Jesus role is done away with forever.

1 entity, many titles, roles.

That's my opinion anyway...

peace

in His service
c

terluvire

07-29-2006, 12:58 PM

HI Dani,

I see it the same as Ezekiel. Those roles satan played will be done away with forever.

watchman_2

07-29-2006, 06:36 PM

Hello folks,

Did you notice that none of our know-it-all detractor friends offer assistance? They are the first to chime in and declare any Biblical interpretation that SC folks offer as wrong and heretical. However, when they are accorded an opportunity to state their interpretation, they are silent.

terluvire

07-29-2006, 07:12 PM

HI Watchman,

Yep, I noticed that...lol

You know, a while back, I was listening on the radio to "Jake the bible answer man". He wasn't very good though..lol I just liked to hear what some of them were saying out there. Well, this woman called in asking if the false prophet and the beast were just offices of satan and that those roles are done away with for they are thrown into the lake of fire before judgment day. I thought "Yes!!, Yes!!" But of course Jake told her no. But I was impressed with that woman who called in with her question.

david_munson

07-29-2006, 07:34 PM

Ha! you make a terrible fisherman watchman,the fish can see your bait.

}

watchman_2

07-29-2006, 07:39 PM

danispeachy,

There are two 'beasts' described in Rev. 13. The first one is described in Rev. 13:1.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

This beast is the one world order/government. Events of today suggest that we are headed in that direction. Of course, this beast cannot gain control without cooperation from all government, all economies, and the education system.

However, this beast [one world order] does not appear to have the cooperation of the religions of the world.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This beast receives a deadly wound [Rev. 13:12]. Rev. 13 is not abundantly clear as to how the deadly wound is delivered, but, it appears that the religions of the world defeat the one world order.

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Nonetheless, the one world order is repaired and strengthened.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Well, it is clear that this second beast is Satan. The remaining verses of Rev. 13 describe him. Obviously, Satan is able, through his supernatural power, to deceive the world's religions as well [except God's elect].

So, it is fair to conclude that Rev. 13 is describing the time before Christ's return.

watchman_2

07-29-2006, 07:40 PM

Rev. 19 is established after Christ's return.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

So, with the time frame set at the beginning of the Lord's Day, we can examine Rev. 19:20.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast referred to is the one world order [first beast of Rev. 13]. There will no longer be a need for governments, economics, education, or religion. Of course, Satan has a role to play at the end of the millennium.

So, the question is the identity of the false prophet. We can glean from Rev. 16 the answer.

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Yes, this is the 6th vial. We learn from Rev. 13:18 who is the identity of the entity at the 6th vial.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. 

In Rev. 16:13, we see the three spirits of Satan.

I agree with Ezekiel and Terluvire that the "false prophet" is nothing more than the role that Satan was playing upon his return.

At the beginning of the Lord's Day, there is no further purpose for Satan's false prophet role as the Messiah coming to rapture away those deceived. Everyone will know who the true Christ is at that time.

Hope this helps.

danispeachy

07-29-2006, 11:50 PM

So the False prophet and the AntiChrist are 1 in the same, the same role? There is no distinction between the 2? They are the leader of the 2nd beast?

Isn't there a passage that says how Satan presents himself to the world? Is he going to come into the world as man (# of a man)? Or does he come in "supernatuarally" - from the sky like Jesus will?

Will a person (flesh) lead the 1st beast?

watchman_2

07-30-2006, 04:51 AM

Satan has many names/roles. False prophet and antichrist are two names/roles.

Satan is the second beast of Rev. 13.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

So, he comes to the earth supernaturally. Remember, Satan only has a short time.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 

If Satan appeared as a man, he wouldn't deceive the world.

The fallen angels head up the one world order [first beast].

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Yes, the fallen angels will be back.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

terluvire

07-30-2006, 05:53 AM

Good work Watchman. Thumbs up!!!

godchild

07-30-2006, 06:41 PM

This is why I did not attempt to answer dani's questions. I had just done so:

Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 9:11 pm: (by godchild)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The antichrist is not satan. Satan is a fallen angel, and angels are spirit. Satan is the (symbolic) dragon who gives authority to the beast (antichrist) in Rev. 13:2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. (Many believe this is a powerful empire), and a specific ruler, whom John calls the "Antichrist". The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded (may be a country destroyed), and his deadly wound was healed (revived). And all the world marveled and followed the beast. So they worshipped (1) the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped (2) the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" vs. 13:11 speaks of another beast "of the same kind", speaking of the close relationship between this beast from the earth and the previous best that emerged from the sea, even though their outward appearance is maredly different. This beast's actions described in vv. 12:17 make it a virtual certainty he is the false prophet spoken of in 16:13, 19:20, 20:10. The two beast may also symbolize the intermingling of secualr, political power and religion. This beast speaks like a dragon, an indication his message comes from the dragon (satan), just as the first beast took his authority from the dragon.
--------------------------
Dani asked her questions 1 hour and 24 minutes after I gave info. with scripture to show what I said was from the Word. Whether Dani saw my post or not, I can't say. But it seemed apparent to me she did not want to hear my answers. The only active thread at that time was the 'rapture' one. She started this one. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand she wanted YOUR interpretation.

danispeachy

07-30-2006, 08:43 PM

If There is no distinction between the False Prophet and the AntiChrist (Both are Satan). If Satan comes in supernaturally (not flesh) Then why is the mark the number of a man?

Is there a verse about how Satan comes in on a horse or something, mimiking how Jesus comes in? (I couldn't find one)
Why couldn't a flesh man perform miracles? God gave power to Moses. Couldn't Satan give power to a man in the same way? Isn't it possible he has already? The Pharoahs sorcerers turned their staffs into serpents too.

terluvire

07-30-2006, 08:50 PM

HI Dani,

I hope this helps. I made this post a while back on the shepherd's chapel wannabe thread:

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! This is when satan is cast out of heaven...Rev.12 He will be playing Jesus.
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. he wants to be God. He will be playing the role of Jesus
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

God refers to satan as a man ISA14:16. Satan is referred to in the male sense. He will be here on earth claiming to be Jesus and the whole world will wonder after the beast except for the elect. The elect will be delivered up and God will speak through them with cloven tongues. This is when the gospel is preached through out the world. Because of God's testimony, many will come out of Babylon at that time:

Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

danispeachy

07-30-2006, 08:51 PM

Vivian,
I did not see your post. The purpose behind my post was a conversation I had with someone (face to face). I have asked the same question elsewhere, to Shepherds Chapel students and non SC students alike. I am perfectly willing to hear other peoples thoughts providing they are done with Christian love. As for posting the question some time ago at the Cafe, I don't recall doing so. I believe it was a different (perhaps similar) question. If not, well I don't remember so mine as well re-ask right?

danispeachy

07-30-2006, 09:12 PM

but why is the mark the # of a man?

terluvire

07-30-2006, 09:12 PM

HI Dani,

I found some other posts. This one is from the doctorines thread, under "when do you say the apostacy began". I hope this one helps also. I have one more I have to search out...lol
Don't worry yourself about Viv. None of us pay any attention to her posts.
Here is the post:
The little horn is satan himself. Sure there have been types of antichrists and world systems down throught the ages, but everything was given for our example.

The first beast in Rev. 13 is a political system, a one world system. The second beast is a religious beast. Satan will be at the head of it. He will be here defacto!!! Who is the man of lawlessness? He is the son of perdition. Perdition in the Greek means:
[apoleia
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.]
He is the son whom is sentenced to perish, die, destruction. Only one has been sentenced by name and that is satan himself.

When you read Rev 12, it is in chronological order.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Here we see the birth of Christ and his death and resurrection.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Now we see Satan kicked out of heaven along with his cronies.
That is why it is said here:
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Those angels are coming here and Jesus said it would be just like the days of Noah. What was going on during Noah's time? Why did God cause a flood during Noah's time? Where did the giants come from? Jesus said it would be just like that!!
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Satan is coming down here along with his cronies. And satan, which is to say the dragon, will spew a flood out of his mouth. It is a flood of lies which will flood the earth.

Antichrist in the Greek does not mean the same in the english. Anti means "instead of". Even the name "Lucifer", it's meaning is a copycat of Christ. It means: [(in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.]
Satan will be here in person and he will be performing miracles is the sight of man. The antichrist is a supernatural being and he will be performing "so-called" miracles in front of the people. He will stand in Jerusalem and claim to be God. He is the desolator which causes desolation. The hour of tribulation is also satan's hour. They are one the same.

terluvire

07-30-2006, 09:19 PM

HI Dani,
I found my other post but it is a very long read.

God's word leaves nothing unsaid and he will not leave us guessing if we search his word. He wants us to be prepared. Here is what I put together concerning the antichrist. Please pray about it while you are reading. Ask the Holy Spirit to bring understanding to our Father's Word.

Warning......Long Read:

The Antichrist

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
First off, God does not deal in fairytale creatures. God is using symbology here.

This beast is a multi-headed beast and it rises out of the sea. Sea is symbolic of people. (Read Rev. 17:15, waters are symbolic of people.) I’m sure most are in agreement that this multi-headed beast is a political system, the one world order, which rises out of the peoples of the earth. Satan gives this political system his power. He is behind this one world government.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Again, we are talking about a political system, the one world order trying to come together. But what we see here is that one of it’s heads are wounded to death. If you are trying to have a one world political system and just one, I repeat, one of the heads has a falling out, that is death to the one world political system.

Continued below

terluvire

07-30-2006, 09:25 PM

Continued from above
How would a healing take place? By bringing it back together as one unit. This is when satan appears and “appearingly” brings peace, unity(Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: (for God allows it) and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.)
He destroys through peace for satan will be playing Jesus and will claim to bring peace to the world. He destroys the people through deception. We are talking of destroying souls here, not flesh. Our souls mean way more than our flesh bodies.
Jesus said that we would hear of wars and rumors or wars but the end is not yet. What is the opposite of wars? It is peace!! When they cry peace, peace, peace, look out!! It will be a false peace.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
 God tells us who the “dragon” is:Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Satan will be here defacto. He has his own body, read Eze. 28. satan is very beautiful and prideful. He doesn’t need someone else’s body. I wish people would stop thinking of spiritual beings as Hollywood presents them. Spiritual beings do have a body; they were even able to eat our food just as we were able to eat their food, manna.
Jesus even said:Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Satan is coming here defacto, in person.

The dragon is satan himself. The whole world will worship him. He does give power to the beast, (the one world political system). He brings it back to being. He will claim to be Christ returned. He will appear to bring unity around the world. And if the whole world is in agreement, who can make war then against the one world political system? The answer is no one. That is except for God’s elect.

Continued below

terluvire

07-30-2006, 09:31 PM

Continued from above

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Satan will be claiming to be God. That is blasphemous.Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: (Mt. Zion, Jerusalem)
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
God wants us to hear this with understanding.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Here he is identified as speaking as the dragon. Who is the dragon? Read Rev. 12, it is the serpent, the devil, satan. What comes out of the dragon’s mouth in Rev. 12? It is a flood. This is not literal water but lies for it comes from his mouth. And this one looks like the lamb but he speaks as the dragon, for he is the dragon, satan. Satan is going to be claiming to be Christ and the whole world will wonder after him. Satan will exercise all the power of the first beast, for the first beast is the one world political system. Satan, himself, will be at the head of it, and he will be claiming to be Christ.

Continued Below

terluvire

07-30-2006, 09:36 PM

Continued from above

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
He will have supernatural powers for he is supernatural.
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Those supernatural powers which satan will exercise in front of the masses will deceive many that he is Christ. People will worship satan, thinking he is Christ and the one world political system, which satan is the head of.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Satan was able to give life to the one world political system because of his appearance. Many will believe he is Christ and all the nations of the world will unite.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
 What is in your forehead? It is your brain. To receive his mark is to believe in his lies. God also has a type of mark, it is called the sealing. Those are the ones who are sealed, in their minds, with God’s truth. And what is your right hand? It is your power hand, the one you work with. So, we are either in the field working for God, or, we are working for satan, helping his “ministry” grow.
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
First off, this is a man’s number. God himself refers to satan as a man. God is talking to satan, Lucifer, here:Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Continued below

terluvire

07-30-2006, 09:40 PM

Continued from above
And the word “count” in the Greek is not the same as we use the word count:psephizo
psay-fid'-zo
From G5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, that is, (genitive case) to compute: - count.
To count the number of his name is to enumerate stones. And it comes from this Greek word:
pse&#772;phos
psay'-fos
From the same as G5584; a pebble (as worn smooth by handling), that is, (by implication of use as a counter or ballot) a verdict (of acquittal) or ticket (of admission); a vote: - stone, voice.

We are to look at these stones, or rather children. Read Eze. 28, it starts off saying the King of Tyre, but as you read further you realize God is speaking about satan. Tyre is the Hebrew means “rock”, but this is the fake rock. Jesus is the true Rock. We are to go all the way back to the beginning. This mark was first placed on Cain. Who was Cain’s father???? We are to understand and follow these stones to see where they lead. Satan is the father of lies and God will send Elijah to turn the hearts of the children back to the “fathers” plural. You are either going to follow God, or you are going to follow satan. Satan is the father of lies and the stones lead to his appearance with him trying to be “the Father”.

The number of his name is 666. Satan comes at the 6th seal, trump, and vial=666. God even gives us his name both in the Greek and Hebrew. They are: Abaddon and Apollyon. They both mean “destroyer, that is satan”.

I also want to mention about the “son of perdition”. Satan is already sentenced to death, perish, perdition. Judas was not. All others have to wait for Judgment day for the verdict. So Judas was not sentenced yet. The only ones sentenced to destruction are satan and the fallen angels. The difference is, is that only satan is named, the fallen angels are not.

The son of perdition, spoken in 2Thess. 2:3, is future. It hasn’t happened yet. And again, Satan is the only one named who is sentenced to destruction. Judas has not been judged yet, and like Abiyah said, Judas repented when he threw the 30 pieces of silver back at the Pharasees. No one is judged, including Judas, until Judgment day and that does not happen until after Jesus returns, and after the millennium reign, and after satan is loosed again, then is Judgment day. Satan is the only one who has been sentenced to destruction, by name.

I can’t see the whole world following a flesh man and believing he is God. I mean, you can get a few to believe it but not the whole world!!! Now a supernatural being, that ‘s a different story. I can see many falling for satan, as God’s word does state, believing he is Christ returned. The way the bible states that Christ will return, that is the same way satan will appear. He is a copycat. Satan is the antichrist, which is to say the spurious Messiah, which means “instead of Christ”, not against or opposed to. Satan will stand in Jerusalem claiming to be God, and he will act as Christ. This will cause the great apostasy. Many good Christian people will think he truly is Christ. But as we see in God’s word, many come out of the great tribulation and wash their robes in the blood of the lamb. They will wake up to the deception and repent.

Satan is coming here.

godchild

07-30-2006, 10:53 PM

Thank you dani, for responding to me as one Christian to another.
1 Cor. 11:10 is speaking about how we worship in the house of God. Note earlier in the chapter where it talks about men having their heads covered. The people were doing the opposite of what they were supposed to. Maybe the women were speaking over the men and the men were allowing it. Note verse 2 where he is talking about the (ordinances, which we do in church). We are equal but we each have a different purpose; woman's different than man's. Just as God and Christ are equal but have different roles in God's plan. Evidently God's angels are present with us when we worship together. See Eccle. 5:6 and Eph.3:10 (the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,..(we know God hears our prayers, as we know the angels sing and shout with joy when they see a person on earth turn to the Lord). This chapter isn't talking about what the fallen angels will do in the end time.

I don't want to go further until you have time to think about this and study it.
God bless you and may His Holy Spirit guide you as you seek understanding.

godchild

07-30-2006, 10:54 PM

Thank you dani, for responding to me as one Christian to another.
1 Cor. 11:10 is speaking about how we worship in the house of God. Note earlier in the chapter where it talks about men having their heads covered. It also says the men had their's covered. Maybe the women were speaking over the men and the men were allowing it. Note verse 2 where he is talking about the (ordinances, which we do in church). We are equal but we each have a different purpose; woman's different than man's. Just as God and Christ are equal but have different roles in God's plan. Evidently God's angels are present with us when we worship together. See Eccle. 5:6 and Eph.3:10 (the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,..(we know God hears our prayers, as we know the angels sing and shout with joy when they see a person on earth turn to the Lord). This chapter isn't talking about what the fallen angels will do in the end time.

I don't want to go further until you have time to think about this and study it.
God bless you and may His Holy Spirit guide you as you seek understanding.

godchild

07-30-2006, 11:25 PM

Thank you dani, for responding to me as one Christian to another.
1 Cor. 11:10 is speaking about how we worship in the house of God and the role of men and women. Note earlier in the chapter where it talks about men having their heads covered. It also says the men had their's covered. Maybe the women were speaking over the men and the men were allowing it. Note verse 2 where he is talking about the (ordinances). We are equal but we each have a different purpose; woman's different than man's. Just as God and Christ are equal but have different roles in God's plan. Evidently God's angels are present with us when we worship together. See Eccle. 5:6 and Eph.3:10 (the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,..(we know God hears our prayers, as we know the angels sing and shout with joy when they see a person on earth turn to the Lord). Also 1 Tim. 5:21 (where Paul is talking to Timothy in front of witnesses and he says "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.." This chapter isn't talking about what the fallen angels will do in the end time.

I don't want to go further until you have time to pray about this and study it.
God bless you and may His Holy Spirit guide you as you seek understanding.}

godchild

07-30-2006, 11:31 PM

I apologise profusely for the multiple posts. I keep getting an error message from the machine, so when I try to edit, it posts every one. The last post is the edited, complete one.

watchman_2

07-31-2006, 01:39 AM

danispeachy,

Your question,

If There is no distinction between the False Prophet and the AntiChrist (Both are Satan). If Satan comes in supernaturally (not flesh) Then why is the mark the number of a man?

Like angels and like Jesus, Satan, in spiritual body, will look like a man. Satan will have supernatural powers.

godchild

07-31-2006, 05:16 AM

Jesus, who is God, became man. Fully man and fully God. When the Bible says "For God so loved the world, He sent HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, this means GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. To suggest that Jesus is simply an angel is sacrilege. Jesus was with God BEFORE the world was. He was not created. Angels were. Mary was chosen to be his earthly mother. This makes Him fully man. God says of Himself, "I AM that I Am". (Exodus 3:14) "Thus shalt you say to the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." Jesus is the only other who has ever (also) said this. (John 8:58) Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am."
(Rev. 1:11, 17) "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last..." "And He laid His right hand upon me saying unto me, "Fear not, I am the first and the last:I am He that liveth, and was dead; (God cannot die, this shows Jesus was man who died and God who can never die)and behold, I am alive forevermore." Jesus was the INCARNATION of God, the only Incarnate Son of God. He spoke with authority, making claims to a higher nature, which if he didn't possess that higher nature, would be false claims. His whole life was consistent with divinity. The unity of divinity and humanity, was literally, fulfilled in Him. In John 10:30 He says, "I and My Father are One." He prayed to the Father, "And now, O Father, glorify Me with Thine ownself with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." In John 1 we see "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:14) "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

Angels, who satan was, are spirit who can APPEAR AS men. Angels are not to be worshipped. Hebrews 2:16 (speaking of Jesus Christ) For verily, He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. (3:3)For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who hath buildeth the house hath more honor than the house. vs.4 For every house is builded by some man, but He that built all things is God.vs. 6 But Christ as a son over His own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm until the end. vs.12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you and evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

ezekiel_37

07-31-2006, 05:20 AM

about how he will come....

The first seal in Rev. depicts an entity coming to earth on a white horse....

The Shepherd's Chapel teaches (and I agree) that the word "bow" does not mean a weapon, but the glory or aura....as in rainbow....God's being the most vibrantly described.

This word for bow....is a fabric bow....a cheap fabric imitation.....in greek...'toxon'.
The cheapest material...not the shikina(sp) glory of God, which is not cheap at all.

This is yet another proof that the fake must come first.....rapture or no rapture.....the fake must come first......pretending to be Christ.....coming in on a white horse.....

in His service
c

watchman_2

07-31-2006, 11:15 AM

Danispeachy,

The detractor would have you believe that Satan is a spirit and would not look like a man.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Spirits wouldn't need to walk; but, Satan walks.

Likewise, Jesus, after his resurrection and in his transfigured body, looked like a man.

In every instance of an angel appearing before man, the angel looked like a man.

There is no reason to think that Satan would appear as anything else but a man. The detractor is completely wrong [as usual].

danispeachy

07-31-2006, 01:48 PM

I don't have time to double check with scripture at the moment, but after Jesus was resurected didn't he walk & talk with Paul? and Paul didn't recognize him until Jesus showed the wounds in hands? When the Angels walked into Sodom, they looked like men... so much so the villiage idiots (yea all of em lol) came to Lots home wanting (eckhemmm... to know them).

I understand where ya'll are coming from so thank you http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

It's definitly the more pursuasive argument. I'm still waiting for answers to those questions from someone who believes the AC will be a pope.
Thus far i've gotten side stepped on the issues.

The question was asked of me... If the mark isn't literal then how will the world know not to buy nor sell with us?

Would you guys as believers that the mark is (Deeds and beliefs) accept a computer chip inplantation with bank and medical info (GPS)? Would you allow it for your children?

terluvire

07-31-2006, 05:12 PM

HI Dani,

Quote:
The question was asked of me... If the mark isn't literal then how will the world know not to buy nor sell with us?

The mark is spiritual, meaning they believe satan is Christ. They are decieved. The mark is in your mind, your brain. You are either sealed by God with his truth or you are marked by satan meaning you believe in his lies. The mark is in your forehead, your brain.

I believe that when the time come, if you want to buy or sell at that time, there will have to be some kind of alligence made to satan and his one world system. What one will have to sign or take to show they are in agreement with his system, or worship him at that time, I have no idea. But we will know when he is here and there is no way we will buy into his system and worship him.

terluvire

07-31-2006, 05:16 PM

HI again dani..lol

Quote:
It's definitly the more pursuasive argument. I'm still waiting for answers to those questions from someone who believes the AC will be a pope.
Thus far i've gotten side stepped on the issues.

LOL I also noticed that none of those who believe the AC will be the pope answered.

danispeachy

07-31-2006, 06:07 PM

[Quote] LOL I also noticed that none of those who believe the AC will be the pope answered. [Quote]

Someone here does? I wasn't refering to factnet.

I guess what I don't understand so I was willing to listen with an open mind... Is why some are so sure the AC will be a Pope. I understand that the RCC has it's issues, but so do many other churches. It is also my understanding that while at 1 time the Catholics "ruled the world" so to speak that is no longer the case. After not getting any response on why the Pope is the AC I googled it. Guess what I found? Conspiracy sites. Sites that are counting the letters of his name in latin and talking about a cross the pope carries. No scripture, nothing... Just "Babel"

godchild

07-31-2006, 06:34 PM

Naming any one person as the Antichrist would just be supposition. So there's no point in my discussing it. That's just my opinion. I can't speak for others.

I do not agree with many of the teachings and beliefs of the Catholic Church. I do know there are Christians who belong to it.

godchild

07-31-2006, 06:37 PM

Naming any one person as the Antichrist would just be supposition. I do not believe any man is satan, so the Pope can't be. There's really no reason I would have for discussing it further. That's just my opinion. I can't speak for others.

I do not agree with many of the teachings and beliefs of the Catholic Church. I do know there are Christians who belong to it.

watchman_2

08-01-2006, 02:47 AM

Since most, if not all, use currency to do business, it will be easy for Satan to give people the mark of the beast without a literal mark.

As part of the one world order that Satan heals, there will be one currency. Those that do not swear allegiance to Satan will not have any money. Can't work, can't use savings, and can't buy anything unless one takes the mark of the beast.

terluvire

08-01-2006, 03:57 AM

HI All,

Watchman, You said it better than I. Good work.

Dani,
Quote:
[Quote] LOL I also noticed that none of those who believe the AC will be the pope answered. [Quote]

Someone here does? I wasn't refering to factnet.

My apology, I miss understood and I apologize to those which I made an assumption concerning that they might think the pope is going to be the AC. You know what they say about assuming..lol I should not have done that.

arron

08-01-2006, 02:55 PM

the antichrist will be an actual man controlled by satan. the mark will be in the hand or in the forehead. it will not be currancy or a mark on something else. it is a mark on the body. poeple will not be able to spend money even if they have money.

godchild

08-01-2006, 05:43 PM

Rev. 7: tells us that believers will have the seal of God. If you look at definitions of seal, it is a mark of genuineness, literally or figuratively. How are believers recognised? By their fruits; not by a literal mark placed on us. We are "sealed" or marked when we become Christians. None of us has a literal 'mark' on our foreheads or our hand. God knows His own. Our names are "sealed" in the Book of Life. Jesus will open the book where our names are.
Those who follow satan will have his 'mark' or 'seal' which are recognised by us by their words and deeds, their fruits (whether they be for good or evil). Even God's angel has His seal (Rev. 7:2), as satan's angels must have satan's seal (mark). We are shown how to recognise evil. It is not by seeing a literal sign or engraving on people or angels.

I'm not going to concern myself with buying and selling. God will provide. We can use the barter system, which worked well before money was made. We can plant gardens. We can do without many things we think of today as necessities.

godchild

08-01-2006, 06:06 PM

In Psalm 37 it says "Mark" the blameless man, and observe the upright. This isn't talking about engraving words or numbers literally on anyone. We should wait on the Lord. It's an act of faith. David says the wicked might prosper, but it won't last forever. Salvation is from the Lord. He is our strength in times of trouble. The destiny of the righteous is in sharp contrast to the fate of the wicked. This psalm ends with the righteous trusting God; like chicks running to the wings of their mother. (17:8, 36:7).

watchman_2

08-02-2006, 11:34 AM

Eph. 1:3-5 tells us that the elect are 'predestined'. These are the ones sealed by Christ. It has nothing to do with the realm of believers.

As we know from the scriptures, many 'believers' will be deceived by Satan, who is the antichrist. Christ never knew these 'believers' [Matt. 7:23].

david_munson

08-02-2006, 04:18 PM

All may come freely.ALL.

}

godchild

08-02-2006, 05:26 PM

Eph.1:3-15 (All of this should be studied to understand the context) says nothing about the elect. It has EVERYTHING to do with the realm of believers. vs.5 ..having predestined (God predetermined that He would send His Son in order to draw us to Himself, according to HIS good pleasure, not ours. In the heavenly council before the world was created "before the foundation of the world" God, who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, predetermined it).
back to verse 5: having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ, to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise and glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

vs. 13 In Him you also (not always) trusted, after you heard the word of truth, (not before in a previous existence) the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed (after you heard the gospel, not in a previous existence), you were sealed (marked) with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance (as His adopted children, Jesus being the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of the Father), until the redemption of the purchased (purchased by Jesus' sacrifice, not because we were with God in a previous existence) possession, to the praise of His glory (this is a confirmation that Jesus' sacrifice for us was accepted by God).}

Why is it anytime the scriptures talk about OUR adoption, scer's ignore that very important word?

godchild

08-02-2006, 05:57 PM

We are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, not because you were some special persons in a previous existence. You belittle Him by suggesting this. You are, in effect, denying Him, whether you want to believe that or not. All believers are the elect. Yes, there were men chosen, such as Elijah, and John the Baptist, and the apostles, but if they had not been/or become righteous (as in Paul's case), they would have been rejected just as anyone else is who rejects God's Only Begotten Son. Jesus is our only High Priest. We are called to be a part of that priesthood. All of us.

Heb.2:9-18 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels (not that he was created but He allowed Himself to become man, who is a little lower than the angels), for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. vs.11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren. vs. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels (this is not speaking of fallen angels or it would say so), but he does give aid to the seed of Abraham (the ones who like Abraham's children, have placed their faith in God, see Gal.3:7, 29.) Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren (flesh and blood), that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propriation for the sins of the people.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priethood, a Holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light, who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy (you were not his spirit children in a previous existence) but now have obtained mercy. (Through the shed blood of Jesus Christ).

danispeachy

08-02-2006, 09:19 PM

What does any of that have to do with the AntiChrist/False Prophet? Maybe I missed something... Oh well..

I want to know what David thinks... Dave what's your opinion on the False Prophet - The Anti Christ and the idea Satan will be incarnated as a Pope?

ezekiel_37

08-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Hi Danispeachy...

I might suggest having a conversation with a poster names...

"the kingsent1"

The pope being the false prophet IS his belief. He may be able to explain why some feel this way. You know your friends (here at factnet) opinions. His opinion may offer an answer to your question.

You can find him in the doctrine threads.

in His service
c

llm

08-03-2006, 02:55 PM

the false prophet

http://www.americaslastdays.com/hm12.htm

danispeachy

08-03-2006, 03:37 PM

The guy I was talking to finally responded as to why he thinks the AC will be a pope. The belief makes no sense. I think you were right Zeke. You said it's people who don't like the RCC. They are blinded by all the other false religions and doctrines and are focused on their "beef" with RCC.

Regardless of the unbiblical teachings of the RCC, they still managed to drudge up someone as wonderful as Mother Theresa. So they can't be all bad :P

godchild

08-03-2006, 05:18 PM

llm, Thanks for the link!

llm

08-03-2006, 10:48 PM

You're welcome Godchild. I've always thought that David Eells makes more sense of these end time matters than Arnold Murray does.

godchild

08-05-2006, 06:18 PM

Does am teach the antichrist will head the Roman Catholic Church?

godchild

08-05-2006, 06:20 PM

Does am teach the antichrist will head the Roman Catholic Church? Do any of his students here think so?

ezekiel_37

08-05-2006, 06:49 PM

Nope.....Pastor Murray teaches that
he will head all churches, under one rule. Worship him, as God....

in His service
c

terluvire

08-05-2006, 07:07 PM

I agree with Ezekiel. Satan will come in playing Christ returned. The whole world will be under his rule including religions. All will believe satan is the Messiah. The whole world will wonder after the beast, [Rev.13]

godchild

08-06-2006, 02:52 AM

zeke, you don't agree with am, do you? Don't you believe the Catholic Church will lead the world religion, which satan controls; that the Catholic Church will be apostate and follow satan. Then the other churches will follow?

I'm curious about both your contention that the whole world will be under satan's rule and believe satan is the messiah. Since shepherd's chapel can be considered a denomination, though perhaps not on paper (since it's founder has a pastorate for it), you would have to include yourselves, wouldn't you? But you believe you will be the elect, is that correct, who will be spared?

Since only a small percentage of the world believe as you do (1) that you must not believe in the rapture (2) that the believers are not all the 'elect' (3) the serpent seed doctrine (4) three earth ages (5) white men are the lost tribes of Israel (6) only the elect will not follow the antichrist; what you are saying is only am/scer's and others who believe as you and he does, will have to wait until the millenium to be taught by you in order to have salvation. Is this correct? Please correct me in the areas you may see as my mistaken understanding.

terlu, when you say 'the whole world' will wonder after the beast, are the elect the only ones (elect as defined by you) who will enter the kingdom, unless they accept the teachings of you all (those who believe in the sc doctrines) during the millenium?

ezekiel_37

08-06-2006, 07:01 AM

Yes I do.

Yes I do.

yes he does and will.

Yep.

Satan is not the Messiah, but he will profess to be.

Shepherd's Chapel is not a denomination.

Those that teach Rev 2:9, Rev 2:9, are favored. Those that do not teach this are not favored.

The elect are predestined. Am I one?....I hope so, but that is not for me to fully know until the moment is upon us. I know enough not to get fooled by the fake Jesus....and wait for the true Yeshua Messiah....so I have that advantage...but that is up to God, as I do not rightly know...maybe you are godchild....!

The elect are spared the wrath of God, but they are here for it...not going anywhere.

rapture....7th trump.....very important.

all Christians are not elect....to some, Christ will say.... "I never knew you"

serpent seed doctrine....explains the two different seedlines that are at odds with each other...that of God's and that of Satan's.....makes the Word much easier to follow if you understand that Satan has physical descendants here on earth....he did not create their soul, but he has physical (and spiritual)children to help him in his work, whether they know it or not. It is important....leads to Rev2:9, Rev3:9...blessings.

three ages....again, makes rightly dividing the Word of God possible. These ages exist, and are documentable......unless you believe that their are three heavens....instead of three ages, where heaven exists in.

not white men in particular, but some white men's descendants. Also, many other races mixed in with Israel (consider the egyptians at exodus) which could make them (israel) multi-national, and therefore have different skin colors. All colors are good anyway, even the white race.

only the elect will not follow the antiChrist...that's pretty basic knowledge, unless you think that the elect are not here, then no one would stand for God during that time. And the Saints do.

Although you worded the next question wrong, I think you mean to say that I believe that the elect are to reign and teach in the millenium. They are to do this...why do you think that this is? Rhetorical.....

it gives hope to all those that were never taught the truth, or were fooled by the traditions of man. In the millenium, Christ will reign, with His elect, and they will work to save as many as possible, as that is His will.

At first, only the elect will enter...the first resurection....the rest have to be tried, like gold or silver is tried in fire....purified..and that happens in the millenium.....then the judgement....

so I answered your questions.
Will you answer mine?

in His service
c

godchild

08-06-2006, 10:22 PM

When you answer where you find scripture that says "the rest have to be tried, like gold or silver is tried in fire...purified...and that happens in the millenium...then the judgment..."

ezekiel_37

08-07-2006, 05:16 AM

in the bible.KJV1611

abiyah

08-07-2006, 06:55 PM

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
" When you answer where you find scripture that says "the rest have to be tried, like gold or silver is tried in fire...purified...and that happens in the millenium...then the judgment..."
-------------------------------------------------

Malachi = meaning My messanger

Malachi 3:1
" Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and The Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His Temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith The LORD of hosts. "

Malachi 3:2
" But who may abide The Day of His Coming ? and who shall stand when He appeareth ? for He is like a REFINER'S FIRE [ Hebrews 12:9 our God is an consuming fire ], and like FULLERS' SOAP
[ God's Word will cleanse you ]; "

Malachi 3:3
" And He shall sit as A REFINER and PURIFIER OF SILVER; and He shall purify the sons of Levi
[ Judgement starts at the pulpit, and it is He that shall remove their impurities ], and purge them AS GOLD AND SILVER, that they may offer unto The LORD an offering in righteousness
[ Hosea 6:6 ].

Malachi 3:4
" THEN [ being AFTER they have been refined & purified ] shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto The LORD, AS IN THE DAYS OF OLD [ age-past times ], and as in former [ or ancient ] years. "

ezekiel_37

08-07-2006, 07:42 PM

Would you kindly answer the questions now godchild?

in His service
c

godchild

08-07-2006, 11:42 PM

No! That does not answer the question.

John the Baptist was called 'Elijah'. He was the forerunner for the Lord, to bring the people back to the Father; he cried, "Repent, repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." And He baptized them.

The 'sons of Levi' were the scribes and Pharisees in the temple. When Jesus was a boy, he went and spoke to them in the temple. When He was a man, He purged the temple when he knocked over the money table.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in times past by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things; through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He by inheritance has obtained a more excellent name than they.

}Isa. 6:6 Then one of the seraphim flew at me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the alter. And he touched my mouth with it, and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged."

As you can see, this is not future, but now and in the past. From the time we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior, we are being refined in God's purifying fire. In reading about silver-work, a silversmith said he knows his work is complete when he can see his own image in the work.

While one of the witnesses spoken of in Rev. 11:4 may be like Elijah, where "fire proceeds from their mouth and destroys their enemies", this is not only before the millenium but before even the 7th trump.
Isa. 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

None of us will be (completely) changed until Jesus comes again "when He which is perfect is come."

ezekiel_37

08-08-2006, 12:15 AM

When you answer where you find scripture that says "the rest have to be tried, like gold or silver is tried in fire...purified...and that happens in the millenium...then the judgment..."

ok
that was done....

scripture was given by Abiyah, indeed proving that God said this....as you implied that He did not.

And since you were giving us an answer based on whether God actually said those things....and we have shown that God DID say those things, please answer the question.

Now whether or not you believe that Ez40-48 are Millenial chapters, is between you and God....

ps...what happens at the end of the book of Ezekiel...right at the end...

Why are you not a person of your word....how dos this show your Christianity, or honesty, or love?

it does not.

in His service
c

watchman_2

08-08-2006, 01:18 AM

When has she ever been a person of her word. Remember -- she said that she was no longer going to post on SC threads.

When has she ever demonstrated that she is a Christian. She has been caught substituting Greek definitions for Hebrew, outright lying many times, and the plethora of misstatements, misrepresentations, and distortions of what others said or what SC teaches.

She is truly SWINE -- Matt. 7:6.

godchild

08-08-2006, 02:42 AM

I notice that every time I expose the error of your false doctrines, you start coming out with all the cliche' nastiness.

Haven't you all been stressing that these are the latter days? Read Daniel 10:14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days (not millenium), for the vision refers to many days yet to come.

The book of Daniel doesn't mention the millenium. Nowhere is mentioned 1,000 years though there is mention of trouble then his people will be delivered. Dan. 12:1 Not one word about the millenium.

Hell hath no fury like a ego-inflated prideful man.

godchild

08-08-2006, 02:47 AM

watchman_2

08-08-2006, 02:49 AM

You haven't exposed any false teachings yet! The only one of you to have done so, to a certain extent, was preachers_daughter.

Every time you have claimed a false teaching, the truth is revealed to you and you were proven wrong.

How deluded you are to think that you have found an error in PM's teachings.

godchild

08-08-2006, 02:55 AM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif watchman making consessions about preacher's daughter exposing your false teachings. There is hope for you yet.

watchman_2

08-08-2006, 04:35 AM

I always strive to be honest. This brings credibility. You ought to try it sometime godchild.

abiyah

08-08-2006, 02:35 PM

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: "........ NOWHERE IS MENTIONED 1,000 YEARS though there is mention of trouble then his people will be delivered. Dan. 12:1 Not one word about the millenium. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

You do greatly err and say that which is contrary to The Word of God; And AGAIN Vivian HEAR The Word of God, as this has been posted here before at FACTnet for your edification directly FROM THE SCRIPTURES, yet you receive it not, and tell contrary to God's Truth, and when you say contrary to God's Truth you DO LIE !!

II Peter 3:8
" But, beloved, BE NOT IGNORANT of this one thing, that ONE DAY is 'WITH' The Lord AS A THOUSAND YEARS, and A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifPeter is telling you DON'T BE IGNORANT OF THIS ! ONE DAY 'with' The Lord is A THOUSAND YEARS to us; and A THOUSAND YEARS is ONE DAY to The Lord. Know and understand that The Lord's Day is A ONE THOUSAND YEAR period. Know and understand that The Day of The Lord is A THOUSAND YEARS to us. Simple... is it not ? During this time, Jesus Christ WILL rule and reign for He shall be KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Indeed all nations will be one under the rule and reign of Christ our Lord , for there WILL BE ONLY ONE KING !

Revelation 20:5
" But the rest of the [ spiritually ] dead lived not again UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS were finished. This is the first resurrection. "

Now, in knowing this Truth, ask yourself this...... WILL I TAKE PART IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION ? WILL CHRIST BE PLEASED WITH me AT HIS RETURN ? OR WILL I BE ONE THAT HE COMMANDS TO DEPART FROM HIM, BECAUSE I WORSHIP THE FALSE CHRIST THINKING HE WAS JESUS COME TO RAPTURE me AWAY ? Does your heart desire to reign with Him throughout The Lord's Day ?

Revelation 20:6
" Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection; on such the second death
[ that being the death of the soul in The Lake of Fire ] hath no power, but they [ being those that have part in the first resurrection ] SHALL be priests of God and of Christ, and SHALL REIGN WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif And 'IF' your heart desires to reign with Him, to live with Him throughout The Lord's Day [ WHICH IS A THOUSAND YEARS ] HEAR then, some of the conditions that one must meet, its far more than just believing in Him, its also keeping and believing and receiving His Word, ALL OF IT ! Loving and trusting Him.

Revelation 20:4
" And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for The Word of God, AND WHICH HAD NOT WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, NEITHER his IMAGE, NEITHER HAD RECEIVED his MARK UPON THEIR FOREHEADS, or IN THEIR HANDS; and they lived and reigned WITH Christ A THOUSAND YEARS.

Abiyah

david_munson

08-08-2006, 04:44 PM

"How deluded you are to think that you have found an error in PM's teachings."
---
SNAP!!!!
The sound you, have just heard is a trap that has just exposed the deception in ones thinking that Arnold Murray has no error in his teaching.
Anyone who is under the impression that AM has no error in his theology is in effect claiming that AM is perfect.
This applies not just to Am but any one who teaches.

Every one has some error in their theology and anyone asserting that it is not so is deluded in a very serious way.

AM has error in his theology whether you realise/admit it or not.
All men/women have error in their understanding of certain and various areas.

Unless you claim that Am is Lord you had better realise he is a man that makes mistakes and has a sin nature.Just like every one.

I'm not surprised that it was implied or by who implied it.
Come on people,you know better.

}

abiyah

08-08-2006, 04:53 PM

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE " John the Baptist was called 'Elijah'. He was the forerunner for the Lord, to bring the people back to the Father; he cried, "Repent, repent,for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" END
-------------------------------------------------

Malachi = Means ' My messanger '

Malachi 4:5 - 6
" Behold, I WILL SEND you Elijah the prophet BEFORE THE COMING of the GREAT and DREADFUL DAY of The LORD; And he shall turn the heart of the fatherS [ Plural= meaning more than one ] to the children [ The wheat or the tares ], and the heart of the children to their fatherS [ Plural= meaning more than one ], lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. "

John The Baptist came IN THE spirit of Elijah the prophet; For The Scriptures prophecied of John The Baptist [ Isaiah 40:3 ], Yet he was NOT Elijah; therefore let not godchild's above stated quote confuse any who may read it, for this prophecy by Malachi is STILL YET FUTURE, you must HEAR Christ Words in Matthew 11:14, for He said 'IF', and that is a condition, " 'IF' ye receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come "; but THEY BEHEADED John The Baptist who was the LAST prophet of all the prophets to prophecy of Christ. For John The Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah in turning the children's hearts back to the father(S), either God, The Father, or satan, their father [ John 8:44 ]. The above stated quoted by godchild only mentions one Father, for clearly the Scriptures read ' fatherS'.... plural.

Luke 1:17 Speaking of John The Baptist
" And he [ being John the Baptist ] shall go before Him ""in the 'spirit'"" and power of ELIAS [that being Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fatherS to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for The Lord.

The Elijah ministry is one that does bring forth The Truth of God's Word; and turns the hearts of the children either to The True Father or they will head straight for satans 'fly' away deception [ Ezekiel 13:18 - 20 ]. Their choice.

And also, not only did John The Baptist say " Repent for The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand ", he also instructed to ..... " BRING FORTH therefore FRUITS MEET FOR REPENTANCE;" [Matthew 3:1-11] The Good Fruits IS The Truth of God's Word, good fruits are also doing and keeping that which is written in The Word of God. Anyone that does NOT keep God's Commanments/Laws or anyone that may teach and say things which are contrary to The Word of God bring forth bad, vile, evil fruit. Any tree [ now I'm talking about people here, people being symbolic of trees ] that do not bring forth 'good fruit' SHALL be cut down at the root and cast in to the fire ! [ Matthew 7:20 ]

Abiyah

godchild

08-08-2006, 06:15 PM

abi, You do greatly err and say that which is contrary to The Word of God; And AGAIN abi HEAR The Word of God, as this has been posted here before at FACTnet for your edification directly FROM THE SCRIPTURES, yet you receive it not, and tell contrary to God's Truth, and when you say contrary to God's Truth you DO LIE !!

Since you have been reading the posts, you obviously saw that my question to zeke was this:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you answer where you find scripture that says "the rest have to be tried, like gold or silver is tried in fire...purified...and that happens in the millenium...then the judgment..." (though I forgot the question mark, it says "WHERE do you find").

You quoted verses from Malachi. They did not answer the question.

I said the Book of Daniel does not give the answer to his (and apparently your) statement.

You said, quote: And he shall turn the heart of the fatherS [ Plural= meaning more than one ] to the children [ The wheat or the tares ], and the heart of the children to their fatherS [ Plural= meaning more than one ], lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. "
on and on about plural for father(s). Then you say, quote: The Elijah ministry is one that does bring forth The Truth of God's Word; and turns the hearts of the children either to The True Father..........

Don't deny my words then turn around and use the same words. You also added these words: or they will head straight for satans 'fly' away deception [ Ezekiel 13:18 - 20 ]. Their choice.

You misinterpret scripture in one book of the Bible and add it to another book. Your interpretations are all messed up. Proven by you all at the fig tree discussing that you will be "delivered UP" to satan.

We do not say we will fly away. We say we will be delivered up to Christ, not satan; as you believe. Let me say to you, therefore:
Anyone that does NOT keep God's Commanments/Laws or anyone that may teach and say things which are contrary to The Word of God bring forth bad, vile, evil fruit. Any tree [ now I'm talking about scer's here, people being symbolic of trees ] that do not bring forth 'good fruit' SHALL be cut down at the root and cast in to the fire! Matthew 7:20 and 7:28 which says:
And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at HIS teaching, for He taught as one having authority, and not as bullinger, capt, allen, and whoever else am borrows from to read his sermons.

Finally, the Lord will reign forever, and we will go to be with Him forever, not just for one thousand years. Hebrews 9:24- For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but to heaven itself, NOW to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; BUT NOW, ONCE AT THE END OF THE AGES, HE HAS APPEARED (not future) to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment; so Christ was offered (not future) once to bear the sins of many (past, present and future).

Vivian

abiyah

08-08-2006, 08:00 PM

You have misquoted my words from my above stated post, just as you misquote The Word of God.

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " on and on about plural for father(s). "
-------------------------------------------------

And here in this above stated quote, you make lite of the word "fatherS" being plural, talking about me going " on and on about plural for fathers ", as if what I had pointed out from The Word of God was some minor detail that needed not to be addressed. Is God's Word a minor detail to you ? Turning the hearts of the children back to the fathers, I find to be a very intersting Truth, and others may also, but how will one ever know if it be LEFT OUT ?

Vivian, did you not HEAR that which was brought forth from God's Word ? As I indeed quoted directly from The Word of God in my above posts.

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " We say we will be delivered up to Christ, not satan; as you believe. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

And also tell me where in The Word of God does it say that you will be DELIVERED UP to Christ ? One has to hand you over to be "delivered up".

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Finally, the Lord will reign forever, and we will go to be with Him forever, not just for one thousand years. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

Now I never said that we would be with The Lord for just one thousand years, so I have no clue where you go that from ? My post regarding The Lord's Day was to show others how you had either lied or misunderstood The Lord's Day. You said that no where was the 1,000 years mentioned... you do recall that don't you Viv ?

You claim to be a Christian, yet your works are strange and unfamiliar to me. Not to mention that your words are very confusing in your above stated post. I mean, re-read it, and I mean not to offend, nor do I care to be cruel,; But really...please.... read it again, for you are ALL OVER the place; Now, I personally do not speak, nor do I understand babel = confusion, so before you speak any further regarding The Word of God, which must flow and make sense when you bring it forth.... I suggest you STUDY God's Word, more STUDY, then you will be able to bring forth good fruit to this discussion board. Only after that will you no longer speak babel= confusion, but rather Truth, with the simplicity therein, for God is NOT the Author of confusion, but of peace [ I Corinthians 14:33 ].

II Timothy 2:15
" STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing The Word of Truth. "

godchild WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " You quoted verses from Malachi. They did not answer the question.

I said the Book of Daniel does not give the answer to his (and apparently your) statement. "
-------------------------------------------------

And with regards to your above comment regarding The Book of Daniel not giving the answer to
' his statement ', and that the vereses from The Book of Malachi did not answer your question..... WHAT ? Does it matter in what Book of The Bible your answer is found ? Well.... ? Does it ? Has thou NOT read that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPRITAION OF God? [II Timothy 3:16] Do you not consider The Book of Malachi as Scripture ? The verses you were looking for from Ezekiel's statement were indeed found there in Malachi. Yet you HEAR it not, and lack understanding thereof.

Abiyah

angie0401

08-08-2006, 08:41 PM

QUOTE:
"How deluded you are to think that you have found an error in PM's teachings."
---
SNAP!!!!
The sound you, have just heard is a trap that has just exposed the deception in ones thinking that Arnold Murray has no error in his teaching. 

With all due respect, David, IMHO the implication was NOT that there is no error in Pastor Murray's teaching (because no one on the face of this earth is perfect or without error), but that the poster that claimed to have found it is completely incapable of doing so.

ezekiel_37

08-08-2006, 09:31 PM

abi....

same old, same old....accusing, condescending, even outright lies and deception from godchild.

She just won't stop false accusations.

in His service
c

abiyah

08-08-2006, 11:07 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Evening to you Angie0401 & Ezekiel !

And peace unto you from Christ The Lord; I pray that all is real, real well with you both. Always a pleasure to see you. God Bless your hearts always. : ) And Ezekiel... with regards to your above post here... no worries, for I have Truth and the love which is IN Christ our Lord, and my heart is truly overjoyed, and the words of one that is dear to my heart just came to mind after reading your post, and I wish to share it with you both... ready ? lol !

" EVERY day is a good day, even with trouble, and you indeed both know why..... BECAUSE JESUS, HE IS THE LIVING WORD ! " : )

Agape,

Abiyah

godchild

08-08-2006, 11:26 PM

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. abi, you are just too thick! Thick with false doctrine and so little understanding of God's Word. Neither you nor zeke understand a really simple question. Nothing you have quoted has anything to do with what may happen DURING THE MILLENIUM. Before, after; perhaps. Nothing confirmed by scripture that will happen during that 1000 years. Never mind. Stay in your la-la land.

ezekiel_37

08-08-2006, 11:33 PM

eyes and ears

angie0401

08-08-2006, 11:58 PM

OHHH abi, can't you just feel the love oozing from Vivian's posts (as usual).

Great to hear from you abi - I'm always excited to read your posts because you are so thorough in your documentation straight from the beautiful Word of God. (Plus I really like the green font!) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Angie

godchild

08-09-2006, 12:12 AM

For those who do have eyes to see and ears to hear:

1 Thess.1:10...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead (just as we will be raised), even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1 Cor. 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen (risen: lift up, take up). And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

Denying the resurrection is a sin. Jesus rose and ascended to the Father and now sits on His right hand. If you think this is on the earth where you are, you understand nothing.

1 Thess. 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR.

It is stupid to think the dead will rise first then we will be together with them in the angels to meet the Lord in the breath. 1 Cor. 15:47- The first man (Adam) was of the earth, made of dust: the second man is the Lord FROM HEAVEN (not here on earth). As was the man of dust, so are also those (all of us) who were made of dust; and as is the heavenly (heaven, not earth) Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust (flesh human beings), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man.

God lives in heaven. Jesus will deliver the kingdom (believers) to God the Father (Our Father who art in Heaven), when He puts an end to all rule and all power.

ezekiel_37

08-09-2006, 05:59 AM

godchild in blue-
For those who do have eyes to see and ears to hear:

scripture in red
1 Thess.1:10...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead (just as we will be raised), even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

my commentary in green
delivers doesn't mean that we are taken away early, and avoid the tribs, but rather protected during them.(2 tribs)

1 Cor. 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen (risen: lift up, take up). And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

Denying the resurrection is a sin. Jesus rose and ascended to the Father and now sits on His right hand. If you think this is on the earth where you are, you understand nothing.

OK, and your point is?...who here denies this? Do you?

1 Thess. 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them IN THE CLOUDS to meet the Lord IN THE AIR.

It is stupid to think the dead will rise first then we will be together with them in the angels to meet the Lord in the breath.

Says you, scripture says otherwise. Use the Strong's and figure it out.

Here's what the greek says...translated to english...

CAUGHT UP (gathered)together(at the same time) with them IN THE CLOUDS(mass multitude-dead in Christ) to meet the Lord IN THE AIR(7th trumpet blast-spiritual body).

david_munson

08-09-2006, 05:25 PM

First the clouds will be raised from the dead?
That is what you are saying Zeke.

You are seperation scripture that explains itself from itself.
That is just plain error.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead are raised first and then we are caught up together with them in the clouds.
You say that the clouds shall rise first then we will be caught up with them to be in them with the Lord?

OY VAY!

That makes no sense at all.

}

abiyah

08-09-2006, 06:21 PM

-------------------------------------------------
David Munson WROTE:
QUOTE: " The dead are raised first ......... "
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifHi David !

Can I ask you a question please ? My beloved grandmothers and my grandfathers have all passed away...., please tell me, where are they right now ? And if you would...... please document with my favorite Book of ALL time, The Bible of course. : ) Thank you so much brother.

Abiyah

ezekiel_37

08-09-2006, 07:12 PM

david, you are being bad...

You know I did not mean that, nor say that, but rather I gave a full explanation above....

tsk,tsk. And I thought you and I were going to try to be civil.

First the clouds will be raised from the dead?
That is what you are saying Zeke.

Nope, not at all. The dead are raised first, as in all the dead in Christ already passed on....not the clouds....that's just wierd....clouds are not to be raised...but rather in the clouds means something dave...use a a Strong's and see that it means ...a mass multitude.....cloudiness....

The dead are raised first and then we are caught up together with them in the clouds.

yep

You say that the clouds shall rise first then we will be caught up with them to be in them with the Lord?

Nope, we are gathered to God (Jesus) as they(the already dead-in His service) and Christ Himself descend. These already dead in Christ are the multitude, which is what the (properly)"cloudiness"-not clouds.....states, but is rendered 'clouds' in english...and they have already spiritual bodies....first, before those of us alive at the 7th trump get changed.

again, "clouds' should be "cloudiness" ..... compare with a cloud of Locusts...

I hope that clears it up david

in His service
c

abiyah

08-10-2006, 07:17 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifHi There ALL !

I saw that David had posted here this afternoon. And the reason why I say this is because I was patiently awaiting his Biblical answer to my question from post No. 439, regarding the discussion topic with you and Ezekiel posts. Hi there David .... you there brother ? Need some assistance please, and thank you. : ) And I'll try to get back here later today, but I do have much going on here. : )

John 21:17
" He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou Me ? Peter was grieved because He said unto Him the third time, Lovest thou Me ? And he said unto Him, Lord, Thou knowest all things; Thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto Him, Feed My sheep.

Abiyah

abiyah

08-15-2006, 02:38 PM

Still waiting......

smyrna

08-18-2006, 09:57 PM

Forget Munsun Abiyah, he's not really into discussion. Did you see the post where he says Watchman was "baiting" the detractors?
I don't think Watchman should deny it. Of course he baited them. And guess what? They won't bite! Why? Because they know that if they did, they would be caught, hook, line and sinker.

Because they can't answer the question. Now
Godchild comes on here and starts dancing around, spinning so well if we could see her we'd probably all get dizzy.

As for the issue about the False Prophet, of course it is satan's role, and as far as references to him being a man, since he is a fallen angel, he certainly can appear as a man.

However, when he does appear as Antichrist, a false prophet as there ever was one, he will also have supernatual powers, and also in order to convince most he is Jesus returning, he will also come from heaven.