SC Eight Day Creation Doctrinal Error [Archive]

2pillars

08-30-2006, 04:38 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Here's why SC dotrinal faith is flawed as far as their claim and wild imagination of eight day creation of Adam theory.

The MAKING of Adam PHYSICALLY from the dust of the ground becoming an natural living soul (Gen.2:7) was entirely different event from the CREATION of Adam & Eve in the image and likeness of God, SPIRITUALLY.

Here's how Adam was physically formed on the 3rd day based on the Scripture - as I have posted before.

"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God (YHWH or Jesus) made the earth and the heavens, (Plural)

The "Day" is the 3rd Day. One can see this because it is the "Day" in which the "Earth" is made. Gen. 1:9-10 confirms that the "Earth" was made on the 3rd Day.

Heavens is Plural and shows that Jesus also made "Heavens", on the 3rd Day. The 1st Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8 Gen 2 is showing that on the 3rd Day, Jesus made other "Heavens".

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Further confirmation that these verses are speaking of the 3rd Day, BEFORE the plants, and herbs, which were made on the 3rd Day, according to Gen 1:11-12

Why do you suppose Scripture is going into such detail of the events of the 3rd Day? Look and learn...

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 2:4-7 is obviously showing us the "Day" when Adam was formed, physically. Adam and Eve were later Created, in God's Image, on the 6th Day. This is the Spiritual Creation of Adam and Eve, at the same time, on the 6th Day. Gen. 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2.

**********************

Now, Here's when Adam & Eve were created in the image and likeness of God spiritually -- AFTER Cain had already killed Abel -- not on the eight day, according to SC flawed religious belief.

IN THE DAY (very specific time of event) Adam and his generations were created in the image and likeness of God (Gen.1:27;5:1-3) both A&E have already committed their "original sin" and Cain had already killed Abel. The next generation to his image was Seth not Cain.

Read and learn...

Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. IN THE DAY (specific time of event) that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Notice: The next generation to Adam's image was Seth, not Cain'?

This specific time of event of creation also took place AFTER man began calling the name of the Lord, ref. Genesis 4:26.

Thus, Adam was a made natural living soul on the 3rd day to begin with and sinned with Eve on the 6th day -- before they were forgiven and created in the image and likeness of God, spiritually. Genesis 5:1-3

Conclusion : SC "eight day" creation is flawed!

Now, try to refute that based on the Scripture!!!

Thanks

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

angie0401

08-30-2006, 05:04 PM

2pillars - why all the posturing? Are you under the impression that there are readers out there waiting with baited breath for your next "revelation"? You speak an awful lot to the "dear readers".

I think you aren't so much looking to dispute our beliefs as you are looking for validation of yours. Maybe you should start your own thread called "3rd, I mean 5th, I mean 4th day man". LOL

Oh my goodness - where to begin?
So Cain killed Abel before their parents (Adam & Eve) were formed?

Sweetheart, you are so confused that I don't even know how to begin to help you straighten out your problems.

May YHVH have mercy on you and open your eyes. This is the craziest stuff I have EVER seen.

Try again? :-)

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 05:08 PM

So....what your saying is Adam looked like Bigfoot BEFORE he sinned with Eve on the 6th day and because of this sin God made him look like we today...in the image and likeness of God? O.K. but were do the Mermaids/Mermen/Spacemen come into this creation? (Note to the Sane: I know I sound like a raving lunatic, but look at the material I have to work with!) LOL

2pillars

08-30-2006, 05:12 PM

angie0401

Do you have any Scripture to sustain your objection to my post?

I am looking for SC Scriptural challenge not your lips service. Therefore, please stay with the issue at hand not with your filthy assumption.

Thanks

abiyah

08-30-2006, 05:26 PM

Angie WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Oh my goodness - where to begin?
So Cain killed Abel before their parents (Adam & Eve) were formed? " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifGood Afternoon There Angie !

Your above stated quote..... is so true... How in the heck could Cain have murdered Abel BEFORE Cains mother, The Woman, was taken from The Man Adams 'rib' ? How could that be.... Eve, that being The Woman, BARE BOTH Cain & Abel [ Genesis 4:1-2 ], they were faternal twins, as she AGAIN= meaning to continue, as she 'continued' in labor and bare Abel. We know they were the same age because we they both gave their first offering to The LORD at the same time [ Genesis 4:3-4].

Angie WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
Quote: " Sweetheart, you are so confused that I don't even know how to begin to help you straighten out your problems. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif Oh my goodness, I could not agree with that above statement more. I feel badly that you are so confused 2Pillars, STOP listening to man's doctrines and interpreations [ preferably Zacharia Stichins ], and go directly to The Word of God, and you will find wisdom, knowledge, and understanding in which The Holy Spirit brings; ALL wisdom comes from God, and you MUST look to Him to obtain that so you are able to share Truth with others and NOT confusion.

Abiyah

terluvire

08-30-2006, 05:30 PM

Abiyah said:
Oh my goodness, I could not agree with that above statement more. I feel badly that you are so confused 2Pillars, STOP listening to man's doctrines and interpreations [ preferably Zacharia Stichins ], and go directly to The Word of God, and you will find wisdom, knowledge, and understanding in which The Holy Spirit brings; ALL wisdom comes from God, and you MUST look to Him to obtain that so you are able to share Truth with others and NOT confusion.

I agree! Sitchin's teachings come straight from Bablylon. And we know how trust worthy Babylon's teaching are. A word to the wise is sufficent.

2pillars

08-30-2006, 05:30 PM

Kimberly>>>So....what your saying is Adam looked like Bigfoot BEFORE he sinned with Eve on the 6th day and because of this sin God made him look like we today...in the image and likeness of God? <<<<
************************************************** ************************************

Now, you reveal you biblical ignorance, kimberly.

But let me educate you a little bit...

Unless you are created in the image and likeness of God (born again spiritually), you are just a natural living soul (flesh and blood) physically whithout the a spirit that is of God.

Here's a Scripture for your additional learning...

1Corinthians 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is spiritual

Try Again?

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 05:31 PM

In all honesty 2Pillars your questions have been answered with Scripture and Documentaion more than once by more than one person here. It is you that continues to evade questions and provide documentaion for your "Theories". You really should invest in a Strong's Concordance and lay-off the readings of men spouting fictional nonsense. and if you will re-read your posts, you'll see that it is you who is in error. You cannot keep the "what day man was created" theory on the same day! And in defense of Angie, it is you who has demonstrated your "filthy assumption" with your lip service. She was only trying to help you. Get a grip! Your rocking chair broke a LONG time ago!

abiyah

08-30-2006, 05:37 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " I am looking for SC Scriptural challenge not your lips service. Therefore, please stay with the issue at hand not with your filthy assumption. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

Hi there 2Pillars !

I believe I have documented with The Word of God all that you have put forth here.... giving you Truth from The Scriptures, The Bible ! You will indeed find that under the thread entitled
' SC Support Macro-Evolution of Fallen Angels into Human Beings ' under my Post No.'s 470, 471, and 472. : )

Abiyah

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 05:39 PM

Well, I'll be a monkey's Uncle!(LOL) 2Pillars did not refute the statement I made about Adam looking like a Bigfoot before he sinned with Eve on the 6th day! This is better than TV!

terluvire

08-30-2006, 05:51 PM

2 Pillars said:
I am looking for SC Scriptural challenge not your lips service. Therefore, please stay with the issue at hand not with your filthy assumption.

Wow, they are calling God's word filthy assumption! Abiyah did quote from God's word so by 2 Pillars saying such a thing is to call God's word filthy. May God have mercy on him/her, for what they are presenting is an abomination straight from satan. Who is the father of lies? And what is Babylon symbolic for? 2 Pillars teachings come straight from Babylon. Those teachings are not from our Father.

abiyah

08-30-2006, 07:00 PM

Terluvire WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " for what they are presenting is an abomination straight from satan. Who is the father of lies? And what is Babylon symbolic for? 2 Pillars teachings come straight from Babylon. Those teachings are not from our Father. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

Hi There Terluvire, Kimberly, & ALL ! : )

Terluvire... I was thinking the same thing regarding your above post. Sister bayblon [ babylon= means confusion ] has a tight grip on 2Pillars, and I don't think she is going to let this one go. : (

Jude 1:17
" But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; "

Jude 1:18
" How that they told you there should be MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, WHO SHOULD WALK AFTER THEIR OWN UNgodLY lusts. "

Jude 1:19
" These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not The Spirit. " [ having not The Holy Spirit to lead, guide, and direct them them in ALL Truth ]

And AGAIN... IT IS WRITTEN

I Timothy 4:1
" Now The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the LATTER TIMES [ These end times in which we are in ] some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to SEDUCING spirits [ they spiritually seduce you, with lies and false doctrine, beware ], AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS;"

And AGAIN IT IS WRITTEN

II Peter 3:3
" Knowing this first, THAT THERE SHALL COME IN THE LAST DAYS SCOFFERS, walking after their own lusts, "

2Pillars walks after his own doctrine, things which DO NOT align with The Word of God, and THEY ARE SERIOUS ! 2Pillars disregards and rejects The Scriptures that have been given him here under these threads, and loves to walks after his own spiritual lusts in his false doctrines, which was given to him by a false prophet, Zacharia Stichin. A scoffer, a mockery, and a derision you are !

Abiyah

2pillars

08-30-2006, 07:17 PM

Abiyah/terluvire

Making up a false representation of my words is indicated. "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written."

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

terluvire

08-30-2006, 07:24 PM

Those are very good verses you posted Abiyah, and I pray 2 Pillars heeds them.

The text which apparently Sitchin's gets his info from are Sumerian text and not the ancient Hebrew and Greek text which God's Word was translated from. Sitchin's teachings are straight from Babylon, confusion. Who would want to follow anything other than our Father's Word?

Praise God Babylon will fall! I can't wait for the day!!

2pillars

08-30-2006, 07:58 PM

To SCers,

Now, back to the issue - let us see if SC doctrinal faith can stand the test of time.

Can somebody please show us how Adan could have been created in the image and likeness of God on the 8th day - based on SC doctrinal faith which I honestly believe to be flawed and in ERROR.

This should be an easy question for you. Please back up your view with Scripture and list your answer below, I promise I won't laugh so hard.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif

Thanks

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

abiyah

08-30-2006, 08:26 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Can somebody please show us how Adan could have been created in the image and likeness of God on the 8th day - based on SC doctrinal faith which I honestly believe to be flawed and in ERROR. "
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gifHi There 2Pillars.

Well you tell me.. what do The Scriptures say regarding 'mankind ' was The Man Adam not of mankind ? Was he not a human being ? The answer of course is yes indeed ! So then let us look at what 'image' mankind was MADE in....

Genesis 1:26
" And GOD SAID, Let us make 'man' in our image, after our likeness; ........... "

Again, as I have stated to you before this word 'man' in the Hebrew is 'Adam' and it means mankind, human beings. God made all mankind in His image, after His likeness. This includes even 'The Man' Adam in which God FORMED [ to shape, or mold ] AFTER He had rested on The Seventh Day.

And AGAIN

Genesis 9:6
" Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; FOR IN THE IMAGE OF GOD MADE HE man. "

The word 'image' here in the Hebrew is ' tselem' and it means image; likeness (of resemblance). And the word likeness as it appears in Genesis 1:26, is the Hebrew word ' demuwth ' and it means likeness; similitude; in the likeness of; resemblance; concretely model, shape; adverbially like: - fashion, like (-ness, as).

I hope that helps you. : ) Now IF you were to laugh at God's Truth... then my discernment is correct and indeed you are a mocker.

Abiyah

(Message edited by abiyah on August 30, 2006)

2pillars

08-30-2006, 09:02 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Can somebody please show us how Adan could have been created in the image and likeness of God on the 8th day - based on SC doctrinal faith which I honestly believe to be flawed and in ERROR. "
-------------------------------------------------

Hi There 2Pillars.

Well you tell me.. what do The Scriptures say regarding 'mankind ' was The Man Adam not of mankind ? Was he not a human being ? The answer of course is yes indeed ! So then let us look at what 'image' mankind was MADE in....

Genesis 1:26
" And GOD SAID, Let us make 'man' in our image, after our likeness; ........... " Abiyah <<<

************************************************** ****************************

Abiyah,

There's no argument about what kind of image man was made when he was given a quickening spirit.

Read my lips -- the issue at hand is when did the event of Genesis 1:26 took place based on SC religious view? Scripture please...

Look and read again...

Genesis 1
26 And God said, Let us make MAN in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created MAN in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So, how come the Scripture do not agree with your pervertion?

Thanks

watchman_2

08-31-2006, 01:09 AM

There appears to be a common misconception out there, especially with the Christian Evolutionists [yes -- they do exist if you can believe that], that the creation of 'man' in Gen. 1:26-27 is with respect to flesh only.

They use,
1Corinthians 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul,
as proof that the spirit was only first introduced into the man formed in Gen. 2:7, later to be named Adam.

Now, the evolutionist then contend that the man in Gen. 1:26-27 was a lower form of life that eventually evolved into the man Adam. This would explain the lack of fossil records of man, as man exists today, beyond 8,000 years ago.

I think that 2pillars is making somewhat the same argument, eventhough his posts are unitelligible. He is dissasociating the form of the man in Gen. 1:26-27 from the man in Gen. 2:7.

Of course, this argument is easily defeated by the definition of "our" in Gen. 1:26,

H430
&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;&#1497;&#1501;
'e&#774;lo&#770;hi&#770;ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

So,in order for God to create man in the image of God and the angels, God and the angels already existed. This takes care of the spiritual aspect of man's creation.

When one looks at the word 'likeness', one sees,

H1823
&#1491;&#1468;&#1502;&#1493;&#1468;&#1514;
demu&#770;th
dem-ooth'
From H1819; resemblance; concretely model, shape; adverbially like: - fashion, like (-ness, as), manner, similitude.

and the word 'image', we see,

H6754
&#1510;&#1500;&#1501;
tselem
tseh'-lem
From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol: - image, vain shew.

From these definitions, we can see that the creation of Gen. 1:26-27 is in physical form to resemble angels. Each time that angels appear in the scriptures, they look like young men. Hence, flesh man and angels look alike. So, as flesh man has a penis, so does an angel.

The remaining question is the veracity of 2pillars' claim that the flesh man can exist without the spiritual body placed into the flesh body. Well, we know from the birth of Christ in Luke 1 that the spiritual body enters the flesh body upon conception.

2pillars has not provided scriptural proof to substantiate that the spiritual body was not also present with the man created in Gen. 1:26-27.

2pillars

08-31-2006, 12:07 PM

Dear watchman_2,

First of all, I can see now clearly the mistake being made by your church to come up with that kind of wild imagination and distorted view of the Genesis. Let me see if I can point some of the errors and perhaps the elders can re-write your church' doctrinal teachings. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days.

That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3,000 years ago, and the events at the end of the 6th Day are still Future. IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1.

Secondly, God is a Spirit without physical shape or form, Therefore, contrary to your church religious view, the creation of Adam in the image and likeness of God (Gen.1:26-27; 5:1-2) is NOT physical form. Unless you think God’s image is likened to a mud, then you have a basis for argument, would that be the case?

Adam was formed or squeezed into shape by the Master Potter, on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7 Eve was made from Adam's rib on the 6th Day. Gen 2:22 BOTH were Created in God's Image at the SAME time. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

As you should clearly see, the narrative in Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2 is speaking of the Re-Birth or Spiritual Birth of Adam and Eve. After this happened, Adam's age is counted:

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Gen 5:3-5
Fainally,"Let US create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a Spiritual Being.

This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth.

However, when Jesus formed of Adam PHYSICALLY from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul (flesh) Gen. 2:7 – it was not spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made PHYSICALLY from his ribs NOR included the agreement of "US" to give Spiritual birth on that particular time. Therefore, it would not harmonized or reconciled to Gen. 1:26 nor John 14:16-17.

This is confirmed in Paul’sa epistle,1Corinthians 15:45-46

1 CORINTHIANS 15
v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit

v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Again, Adam was physically FORMED/MADE on the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:7) and was Created spiritually in their image and likeness - together with Eve - on this present 6th Day (Gen.5:1-2; 1:27)

Again, God has but 7 Days, and the 7th has No ending. When God rests, or Ceases to Create, on the 7th Day, it will be too late to be Created in God's Image, or in Christ. Since all we have is "today", those who will live forever, must be born again while it is still called, Today. Today is the only Day of Salvation.

God Bless

watchman_2

08-31-2006, 12:32 PM

II Pet. 3:8 proves your theory wrong. God places himself in time of man [one of God's days equal 1000 years of man] so that God's children cannot be fooled by false theology like evolution and that which you purport above.

I don't know if there is any point in addressing the rest of your theories since you are so far off base with the time frames in Gen. 1.

By the way, I have read in your posts that you support the beliefs, 'born again' and 'rapture'. Neither of these beliefs have scriptural support.

2pillars

08-31-2006, 01:08 PM

On the contrary, II Pet. 3:8 is a SIMILE / METAPHOR and actually support my view of the old age earth.

As I have posted before on the other thread...

Most people don't know the difference between God's time and man's time. God has but 7 Days and Today is the 6th Day. At the end of this 6th Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

The age of this earth is complete accord with science. When you find the One Truth, you will see that the One Truth agrees with every other discovered Truth. There is Not one Truth for Christians, and one for Scientists. When you find God's Truth, it agrees exactly with both or the interpretation is wrong.

BTW, I understand you predicaments. And I doubt that you can sustain your view with Scripture, since it based on the wild imagination of your church and flawed understanding of the Genesis.

The Bible was written for the past, present, and future. It is relevant for today, and tomorrow.

Written by the Supreme Intelligence, it's just too hard for poor, ignorant, unbelievers to comprehend. The only way they will understand is to become Christians and be "Born Again" in the image and likeness of God.

God Bless

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 31, 2006)

abiyah

08-31-2006, 01:47 PM

Mark 13:5-6
" And Jesus answering them began to say, TAKE HEED LEST ANY man DECEIVE YOU; For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ [ Saying I'm a Christian, a follwer of Jesus Christ ]; and SHALL DECEIVE MANY. "

Now, anyone who does not keep God's Word, and Jesus Christ WAS and IS The Living Word of God, IS NOT OF Christ. You can NOT TEACH, OR SHARE things which are NOT of God's Truth ! Its just that simple.

I Corinthians 15:45
" And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifWhen God FORMED 'THE MAN' Adam [ that specific man, Adam meaning ruddy, or to show blood in the face; Genesis 2:7 ] from the dust of the ground, AFTER God rested on The SEVENTH DAY, He placed within 'this' man a living soul; having a spiritual awareness. The last man Adam was brought forth from umbilical cord, to umbilical cord, and IT IS through the last man Adam, which IS Jesus Christ The Lord, that the 'quicking Spirit', that "life giving Spirit" enters into man's souls.

I Corinthians 15:46
" Howbeit [ how is that ? ] that was not first which is spiritual, BUT THAT WHICH IS NATURAL
[ the flesh body ]; and afterward that which is spiritual [ born of The Spirit ]. "

**** I Corinthians 15:21-22
" For since by man came death [ THE MAN Adam brought death into the world through sin ], by man came also the resurrection of the dead [ John 3:25 ]. For as in Adam all die, EVEN SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE [ Christ brought life eternally ]. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifTo obtain life eternally through Jesus Christ our Lord... ALL must FIRST be born in the flesh, that being the natural body [ John 3:5 ], and then AFTER that, be born of The Spirit. Christ gives life eternally.

I Corinthians 15:47
" The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man IS The Lord from Heaven. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif God was speaking to the angels when He said " LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS ".

Genesis 1:27
" So God created man in His OWN image, in the image of God created He him; MALE and FEMALE created He THEM. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Each soul must pass through this flesh age, born in the flesh, that being the natural body, EVEN God Himself, being born of a virgin, came to this earth age IN flesh, the natural body. Immanuel= meaning God WITH us [ Isaiah 7:14 ]. We know that in the beginning was The Word, The Word was with God and The Word WAS God [ John 1:1 ], we know and understand that The Word BECAME FLESH and walked amongst us [ John 1:14 ]. The Messiah, Jesus The Christ came to this earth age, born of woman in flesh, to lay down His own life for the sins of all His children. For He was perfect ! Absolutely innocent. He paid the price for all of our sins, so that we could have life eternally. He is The Bread of Life [ The 'spiritual' Manna ] that came down FROM Heaven. And in Him is life for the spirit/souls of men.

Abiyah

david_munson

08-31-2006, 01:50 PM

2pillars,
I am not an Sc student but I have to admit that you need to do some studying.
Your theology is so shot full of holes it isn't funny.

I don't think I've read such bizzare stuff in a long time.

Heaven has flaws and needs to be perfected?
Unbiblical.

"In my Father's house are many mansions and I go to prepare a place for you" is not an indication that heaven is not perfect.

You need to do some scriptural backing up of the things you are claiming.
But
you cannot since there is none.

Dave

}

2pillars

08-31-2006, 04:06 PM

Dear david_munson,

Your opinion is only based on your biblical ignorance. Unlike you and other SC followers, I always support my view with Scripture.

There's no flaws in God's creation. Today is still the 6th Day and He's still working today. Tomorrow, the 7th day, everything will be Finished, and God will Cease to Create, for His Creation will be brought to Perfection.

Where do you get the idea that God has more 7 days?

It's too bad that most people don't even know what Day it is......

And as far as the numerous heavens and earth are concerned, I have already address that issue LITERALLY speaking - go and review it for yourself before you open up your mouth, since, I don't want to repeat myself.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

kimberlyfredrick

08-31-2006, 05:31 PM

2Pillars, You do realize that you have made the claim that you are correct on you doctrines and that everyone else is wrong. You do realize that you have stated that you are not affiliated with any religious organization and that you have not used any website to support your beliefs. You do realize that you have claimed that your ONLY source for your religious beliefs is straight out of the Holy Bible which has proven you wrong over and over again. You do realize that you claim that only God alone has revealed these "truths" to you and has not given any truths to anyone else here. What you do not realize dear friend, is that that voice inside your head is NOT from God! Anyone claiming what you claim here is in fact delusional. How beit that God only reveals truths to you and you alone? How beit that everyone here is wrong and that God hid the truth from all of us and chose only you? Where are the others of your flock? You do have others, don't you? A true shepherd of God would indeed have a flock. 2Pillars, you are a one-man show. Yes, I do beleive that you THINK that that voice in your head is of God, but you are sadly mistaken. 2Pillars, you have been decieved.

2pillars

08-31-2006, 06:50 PM

BACK TO THE ISSUE AT HAND: http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

Dear david_munson,

As I have posted before, there are numerous heavens and earth that are being spoken in the Bible.

Today, God is still working on the 3rd Heaven -- preparing it for us Christians to dwell in when this place is burned. Then God will finally rest on his 7th day - which has no end.

Here's how the 3rd Heaven will look or likened when it is perfected - for your additional learning.

"in the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth" (Gen 1:1)
"I saw a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev 21:1)
____________________________________________
"The gathering together of waters He called the Sea" (Gen1:10)
"And the Sea is no more" (Rev 21:1)
____________________________________________

"The darkness He called Night" (Gen 1:5)
"there shall be no night there" (Rev 21:25)
____________________________________________

God made the two great lights (sun and moon)" (Gen1:16)
"the city has no need of the Sun nor the Moon" (Rev 21:23)
____________________________________________

"in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17)
"death shall be no more" (Rev 21:14)
____________________________________________

"I will greatly multiply your pain" (Gen 3:16)
"Neither shall there be pain anymore" (Rev 21:4)
____________________________________________

"cursed is the ground for your sake" (Gen 3:17)
"There shall be no more curse" (Rev 22:3)
____________________________________________

Satan appears as the deceiver of mankind (Gen 3:1-4)
Satan disappears forever (Rev 20:10)
____________________________________________

They were driven from the Tree of Life (gen 3:22-24)
The Tree of Life re-appears (Rev 22:2)
____________________________________________

They were driven from GOd's presence (Gen 3:24)
"they shall see His face" (Rev 22:4)
____________________________________________

Man's primeval home was by a river (Gen 2:10)
Man's Eternal home will be beside a river (Rev 22:1)
____________________________________________

Please remember that God doesn't create things very good and stop - He CREATES them PERFECT.

Your Welcome. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

llm

08-31-2006, 08:12 PM

http://www.fixedearth.com/dayheaven.htm

I agree that there is a massive building project going on in the 3rh heaven outside the confines of our small universe. It is where Jesus said I go and prepare a place, and also where Paul went for a visit. The fixedearth guy describes it pretty well in his material...

2pillars

08-31-2006, 09:11 PM

llm,

I would love to see a DVD showing us that world, before it was totally and completely DISSOLVED in the waters of a Universal Flood.

Do you think we will have DVD in Heaven, showing us of the present world, which will be burned? I can hardly wait to go to the 3rd Heaven. How bout you?

Psa 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved:

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

ll Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

ll Peter 3:5-7 tells us of the Scoffers of the last days:

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-Destroyed, totally and completely)

There are examples of these Willingly Ignorant Scoffers, of the last days, almost every day, on these boards.

Don't you thinks so? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

kimberlyfredrick

08-31-2006, 11:03 PM

I can assure you that there is no one here who is "willingly ignorant". We have read your posts, answered your questions and asked questions ourselves in an attempt to understand just what it is your trying to sell us here. It is you who has failed as a "teacher." If we all had to past a test on "2Pillars Religion 101" we would all get a big fat 0! Why? You might want to look into your own mirror when deciding who has the "spirit" and who does not.

watchman_2

09-01-2006, 02:10 AM

2pillars,

You wrote,

ll Peter 3:5-7 tells us of the Scoffers of the last days:

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-Destroyed, totally and completely)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the destruction that is written about in II Pet. 3:5-7 already took place. See Gen. 1:2

2pillars

09-01-2006, 03:49 PM

watchman_2 wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the destruction that is written about in II Pet. 3:5-7 already took place. See Gen. 1:2

************************************************** *************************************

Dear watchman_2,

But that's just based on the speculation of your religious view. The destruction of the 1st heaven - the world of Adam thru Noah - did NOT happen in Gen. 1:2.

While I have already provided you Scriptural reconciliation of Genesis 1:1-5 - the reason why your church assumption is flawed - I honestly believe that you can NOT sustain your view with Scripture needed to support your assumption.

If you insist, show us your reconciliation of the text in chronological order of the events to support your church view or speculation.

I am all ears..... and I am waiting...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

Thanks

watchman_2

09-02-2006, 02:58 AM

2pillars,

I am quite sure that you are "all ears" -- it is brains that you are short of.

First, you haven't reconciled Gen. 1:1-5 at all. The first heaven and first earth ages ended at the beginning of Gen. 1:2. A quick study of this scriptures yields the first mistranslation in the KJV.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

A little research on the word 'was' yields,

H1961
&#1492;&#1497;&#1492;
ha&#770;ya&#770;h
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

Accordingly, the proper translation would be, "And the earth became formless and void . . .".

The scriptures easily defeat your theory that the first earth age went to Noah's flood.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

A look at the word 'world' yields cosmos,

G2889
&#954;&#959;&#769;&#963;&#956;&#959;&#962;
kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

A look at the word 'perished' yields,

G622
&#945;&#787;&#960;&#959;&#769;&#955;&#955;&#965;&# 956;&#953;
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

The figurative definitions do not apply, so we are left concluding that all inhabitants of the first earth age died.

Noah and his family, as well as the Gentiles, all survived the flood of Noah's time. In addition, plant life was not obliterated either.

Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Looks like the olive tree survived as well.

I guess it is time for you to acknowledge your errors now and to apologize for your childish behavior here.

ezekiel_37

09-02-2006, 05:34 AM

I think that he thinks that Noah and his wife, the clean animals aboard the ark, that we now have on earth today, (i guess the olive branch aswell) were originally on planet whatever, which is the first planet, created on the 2nd day....not our planet earth which according to him was created on the 5th day....i think////

in His service
c

abiyah

09-02-2006, 02:29 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifGood Morning to you Watchamn & Ezekiel ! : )

Watchman..... I enjoyed your post, as you have well documented with Father's Word, which is The Truth regarding the first earth age of time, and how it was fully destroyed. In Genesis 1:2, the earth BECAME without form and void as God destroyed that earth age. WHY ? Because satan, that now son of perdition, along with one third of God's children rebelled against God, satan wanted to be God, and God destroyed that earth age.

Jeremiah 4:23
" I beheld THE EARTH, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [ this was at satan's rebellion ] "

Jeremiah 4:24
" I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled [ God SHOOK them ], and all the hills moved lightly. " [ Hebrews 12:26 ]

Jeremiah 4:25
" I beheld, and, lo, there was NO MAN [ No Noah and his family, No two of all the other flesh races of peoples, it says NO MAN, not a one ], and ALL THE BIRDS OF THE HEAVENS FLED.
[ No dove here, No Raven ] "

Jeremiah 4:26
" I beheld, and, LO, the FRUITFUL PLACE WAS A WILDERNESS, and all the cities thereof were BROKEN DOWN AT THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, AND BY HIS FIERCE ANGER. " [ This is NOT the flood of Noah's time, but rather how th earth became without form and void; Genesis 1:2 ]

Jeremiah 4:27
" For thus hath The LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end [ Because He brought in THIS EARTH AGE, THIS FLESH AGE, Genesis 1:3 through Genesis 3:25 ]. "

Abiyah

terluvire

09-03-2006, 02:44 PM

Good day all,

Abiyah and Watchman I love your posts. God's truth is amazing!

Last night my son inlaw was here and we were discussing those very verses. We were also discussing the dinosaurs, giants, the races, the antichrist, Babylon....ect. He was so into it, that he turned down the volume to the tv!!!! He really wanted to hear. I then pulled out my bible and we were reading and discussing Father's Word until midnight!!!

God's word is amazing!!! His Word truly is alive!!! We serve an awesome awesome God!!!!!!!

abiyah

09-03-2006, 03:26 PM

Terluvire WROTE
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Last night my son-in-law was here and we were discussing those very verses. We were also discussing the dinosaurs, giants, the races, the antichrist, Babylon....ect. He was so into it, that he turned down the volume to the tv!!!! He really WANTED TO HEAR. I then pulled out my BIBLE and WE WERE READING and DISCUSSING Father's Word until midnight!!! " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif LOVE IT ! : ) That is Greeeeeeat Terluvire !

Revelation 3:20
" Behold, I stand at the door, and knock; 'IF' any man HEAR My Voice, AND OPEN THE DOOR, I WILL SOME in to him, and WILL SUP with him, and he with Me. "

Matthew 18:20
" For WHERE TWO or three ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN My Name, THERE AM I IN THE MIDST OF THEM. "

I wish I was there too Terluvire ! I'm so excited that he was so interested to HEAR God's Truth, and that his heart, his mind was open to receive The Truth. : ) God Bless both your hearts, and may your son-in-law also grow in the wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of our Father's Word, which is ALL True, in The Name of Jesus Christ our Lord; Amen.

Abiyah

terluvire

09-04-2006, 01:00 PM

Good Morning Abiyah,

Oh I wish you were here also! It really was an amazing night.

I called my step-daughter the next day, and she told me that her husband woke up that morning and pulled out his bible! He is a Christian but he didn't read his bible too often. But that day he started to read. And...He can't wait to get the Strong's Concordance. He told his wife, "that's it, I want to see what God has to say for myself!" He wants to check everything out!!! Isn't that wonderful!!!

God's truth drives a person into His Word.

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

kimberlyfredrick

09-05-2006, 02:27 PM

Yes, God is so very AWESOME! I am so glad to hear of your good news!

2pillars

09-05-2006, 03:17 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

God tells Noah, as documented in Gen 13:6 that He will DESTROY the evil people,WITH THE EARTH.

When God "Destroys" something, you bet, it is completely Destroyed - LITERALLY SPEAKING.

Read and Learn..

II Peter 2
5 And SPARED NOT the Old World (#2889 kosmos - universe) , but saved Noah the EIGHT PERSON, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

II Peter 3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v 6 Whereby the world (#2889 kosmos - universe) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished (Greek – totally destroyed) :

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARHT, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Only willingly ignorant always stumble to this truth.

2pillars

09-05-2006, 03:58 PM

Dear watchman_2

First of all, the problem with your theory and imagination - you're combining apples and oranges, thus, creating your own sour grapes.

None of those cited verses you mentioned and so proud about in connection with Lucifer and those other "fallen angels" have anything to do with the actual context of Genesis 1:1-2. That is just lack of comprehension on your part.

Obviously, you don’t know the meaning and the usage of word “GENESIS” do you? Perhaps, that is the reason why you keep looking for the ENDING of the Angels of Lucifer, correct?

Here’s the meaning of “GENESIS” for your convenience.

Genesis: noun - The initial stage of a developmental process: beginning, birth, commencement, dawn, inception, nascence, nascency, onset, opening, origin, outset, spring, start.

See, even Webster disagree with you. She is wondering what the hect is wrong with you looking for the ENDING of the reign of Lucifer, in the book of Genesis?

The name of the title of the book "Genesis" speaks of the BEGINNING – birth or the initial stage of the developmental process of creation -- not the ENDING of the reign of Lucifer, based on the wild imagination of your religious faith.

Let me share you the phrase I heard before, very similar to J. Cochran famous phrase.....

"IF IT DOESN'T FIT, YOU MUST QUIT".

Read my lips, there's no Gap between Genesis 1:1-2.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 05, 2006)

2pillars

09-05-2006, 05:38 PM

watchman_2 wrote:

The figurative definitions do not apply, so we are left concluding that all inhabitants of the first earth age died.

Noah and his family, as well as the Gentiles, all survived the flood of Noah's time. In addition, plant life was not obliterated either.

Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Looks like the olive tree survived as well.
************************************************** *******************************

Dear watchman_2,

The Scripture is very clear....

God tells Noah that He will destroy the violent people WITH the Earth, in Gen 6:13.

ll Peter 2:5 tells us that God SPARED NOT the old world. ll Peter 3:5-7 tells us the first Earth was destroyed totally and completely with the use of the word "perished", which in Greek means destroyed, totally -- NOT figuratively, as you would like others to believe.

Also,as you know, IF this Planet were covered with water, above the highest mountain - Everest - the water would still be here. Who are you trying to fool?

A fig tree could not have germinated, grown, and put forth leaves within the week Scripture requires. Gen 8:10

Genesis 7:20-24 shows that the Ark was 22 feet above the highest mountains 150 days or 5 Months after the beginning of the Flood.

Genesis 8:4 shows that the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150the Day after the Flood began. The Flood began in February and the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat 5 Months or 150 days after the Flood began, on the 7th Month.

When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event.

The sons of God (Prehistoric Man) never wrote a book, nor built a city. Humans, Adam, was made on the 3rd Day and the sons of God were created from the water on the 5th Day. Pre-Noah Humans were from Adam, and the sons of God are referred to by Evols, as Caveman.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 05, 2006)

kimberlyfredrick

09-05-2006, 11:14 PM

Well there friends, there is your proof. The above post from 2Pillars spews of the most blatant blashphemy. His above statements prove that he does not honour our Heavenly Father nor the Holy Bible which Our Father left for us to know him and his plan for us. He clearly calls the Bible a work of fiction. O.K. 2Pillars, i'll bite. If the Bible is inaccurate as you claim, then where do you get your "Truths" from??? and you can't say Fate magazine, I already gave you that one!

2pillars

09-06-2006, 01:23 PM

Dear kimberlyfredrick,

Science and Shepherd Chapel' followers are the ones who call Prehistoric mankind as cavemen. God always calls them the sons of God. I agree that these beings were as smart as is naturally possible, but these beings did Not know good and evil until they formed a union with humans. Only God and Humans know good and evil.

There was no human civilization on this planet until Noah arrived some 10K years ago, just south of the mountain Ararat. From this region, all Nations became Human. Civilization is born. Reading, Writing and Math all originated with the descendants of Noah, in this area. That's why they call it the Cradle of Civilization.

Arnold Murray also seems to be ignorant that the 1st World was destroyed by water and has it confused with this Planet. He probably didn't notice that the 1st World was made on the 2nd Day. (Gen 1:6-8) and that our World was made on the 3rd Day. (Gen 2:4-7).

IOW, like you, he is ignorant of God's Truth as written in Genesis. I'll bet he also doesn't know what Day it is.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 02:22 PM

2Pillars, I see no need in furthering our discussions with you. Your above post speaks volumes for itself. You have re-written the entire Genesis Creation story and re-packaged it into your version of Science Fiction.(Science Fiction is NOT REAL!) You have purposely come here to spew your false theories in an attempt to discredit those who post here. However, your attempt has backfired. You alone has made a fool of yourself and those here who have been seperated through disagreements of doctrine have now banded together in brotherly love to fight the evil which you spewed . This only proves my point, in times of trouble the true sheep who hear HIS voice flock together to protect the Word of God. We disagree on doctrines, you 2Pillars disagree on which planet Genesis is based on! Claiming that mankinds ancestors began on another Earth, not this present Earth cannot be aurgued. You claim that human civilization did not begin on this planet until Noah "arrived" some 10K years ago from another planet. Now, that is not biblical, it is delusional.If you cannot understand that Genisis is about this Earth and no other, then buddy, you are NOT one of the sheep. And for the record, I will state that you already knew that before you came here. I know who you are and why you have come here and those who know HIS voice know it to.You have fooled no-one. All you have done is prepare us for the final battle. and you know what 2Pillars, you lose!(I read the end of the Book)Repent before it is not too late!

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 02:22 PM

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 02:35 PM

Sorry for the repeated post above. I tried several times to delete one of them.

2pillars

09-06-2006, 02:39 PM

BUMP to watchman_2!!!

watchman_2 wrote:

The figurative definitions do not apply, so we are left concluding that all inhabitants of the first earth age died.

Noah and his family, as well as the Gentiles, all survived the flood of Noah's time. In addition, plant life was not obliterated either.

Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Looks like the olive tree survived as well.
************************************************** *******************************

Dear watchman_2,

The Scripture is very clear....

God tells Noah that He will destroy the violent people WITH the Earth, in Gen 6:13.

ll Peter 2:5 tells us that God SPARED NOT the old world. ll Peter 3:5-7 tells us the first Earth was destroyed totally and completely with the use of the word "perished", which in Greek means destroyed, totally -- NOT figuratively, as you would like others to believe.

Also,as you know, IF this Planet were covered with water, above the highest mountain - Everest - the water would still be here. Who are you trying to fool?

A fig tree could not have germinated, grown, and put forth leaves within the week Scripture requires. Gen 8:10

Genesis 7:20-24 shows that the Ark was 22 feet above the highest mountains 150 days or 5 Months after the beginning of the Flood.

Genesis 8:4 shows that the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150the Day after the Flood began. The Flood began in February and the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat 5 Months or 150 days after the Flood began, on the 7th Month.

When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event.

The sons of God (Prehistoric Man) never wrote a book, nor built a city. Humans, Adam, was made on the 3rd Day and the sons of God were created from the water on the 5th Day. Pre-Noah Humans were from Adam, and the sons of God are referred to by Evols, as Caveman.

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 02:54 PM

2Pillars, QUOTE: "When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destoyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd Heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event." I double-dog dare ya to provide Scripture from the Holy Bible to document this ridiculous assumption. document or shut up!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

godchild

09-06-2006, 03:34 PM

THIS IS A PERSONAL MESSAGE. (comments from the peanut gallery not required).
John, I see you've managed to sneak back in. Why eliminate your first three posts? Be careful with the 'partial' fxxx words here, as in "What the F". You need more practice with the feminine/masculine charade, old buddy. Tch, tch! One of them almost caught you (jumping from 4. to 207.) but they're all so thrilled to have a 'newby' to support them, you've been welcomed once again. You're clever like a devil. A bad liar, but you get points for persistance.

Don't get me wrong. I think its funny as hexx. You know a rodent can slip through a hole one quarter of an inch.

abiyah

09-06-2006, 04:06 PM

2Pillars said:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QOUTE: " The sons of God (Prehistoric Man) never wrote a book, nor built a city. Humans, Adam, was made on the 3rd Day and the sons of God were created from the water on the 5th Day. Pre-Noah Humans were from Adam, and the sons of God are referred to by Evols, as Caveman." END
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The LORD SAID
Proverbs 15:2
" The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright; BUT the mouth OF FOOLS POURETH OUT FOOLISHNESS. "

Abiyah

2pillars

09-06-2006, 04:08 PM

kimberlyfredrick wrote:
I double-dog dare ya to provide Scripture from the Holy Bible to document this ridiculous assumption. document or shut up!

************************************************** **********************************

Sure, I just don't know if you have the brain capacity to understand it, since, you don't have spiritual guidance.

Anyway, for the sake of other Open Minded Readers, here it is, based on the Scripture. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Genesis 7:20-24 shows that the Ark was 22 feet above the highest mountains 150 days or 5 Months after the beginning of the Flood.

Now read the verse below very slowly...

Genesis 8:3 And the waters returned FROM OFF the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

Notice: The Scripture uses the words "FROM" "OFF" to describe the waters (flood) movement and direction where the waters is going -- suggesting that the waters together with the Ark returned FROM their world -- OFF to our earth (our planet) continually.

Genesis 8:4 shows that the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150the Day after the Flood began. The Flood began in February and the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat 5 Months or 150 days after the Flood began, on the 7th Month.

When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event.
}

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 06, 2006)

abiyah

09-06-2006, 04:25 PM

2Pillars said
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QUOTE: " When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event. " END QUOTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The LORD said

Proverbs 10:8
" The wise in heart will receive commandments; BUT A PRATING FOOL SHALL FALL. "

2pillars

09-06-2006, 04:44 PM

Dear Open Minded Reader,

Notice how the SC "defender of faith"/followers could no longer defend their cultic view or come up with a Scriptural rebuttal to sustain their objection to my post?

And so it is written: Their knowledge becomes foolish. Professing themselves to be wise they became fools. It is very sad, isn't it?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 04:51 PM

2Pillars, you did not even answer the question! You missed the question completely. I asked you to provide scripture documenting your theory that Noah CAME to this Earth in a way simular to that of Paul was brought to the third heaven as stated by you. TRY AGAIN!!! LOLhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

terluvire

09-06-2006, 05:10 PM

godchild,

I do not believe you. You come here to make a comment to Kimberly, (if that is who you are referring to), but you totally ignore 2Pillars who is teaching such obserdities! What's up with that? Or do you agree with 2Pillars? Can't you at least stand against what he is teaching? Or, are you only concerned with attacking us regardless of what others are teaching here?

2pillars

09-06-2006, 05:11 PM

Dear kimberlyfredrick,

I believe I have answered your question. You need to have somebody to read and explain to you my post based on your brain capacity.

Also, I am so sorry, that you don't know the meaning of the word SIMILE or similar?

Main Entry: sim·i·le
Pronunciation: 'si-m&-(")lE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, comparison, from neuter of similis
: a figure of speech comparing two unlike things that is often introduced by like or as (as in cheeks like roses) -- compare METAPHOR

Therefore, the Ark was brought to this planet thru the "supernatural" power of God - similar to the way Paul was taken to the 3rd heaven.

Hello (((((((((((((((( can you hear me now?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

abiyah

09-06-2006, 05:27 PM

Terluvire WROTE:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QUOTE: " godchild,

I do not believe you. You come here to make a comment to Kimberly, (if that is who you are referring to), but you totally ignore 2Pillars who is teaching such obserdities! " END QUOTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifGood Afternoon to you Terluvire : )

And Peace unto you ALL, from God our Father. : )
Terluvire..... I believe Vivian was speaking to
' John ' in that, I think she thinks that 2Pillars is John Parker Cody perhaps ? This I am not sure of....... but he was the only John that use to fellowship along with us at these threads. And just for the record, no I do not think 2Pillars is John Cody. I hope that helps Terluvire. : ) I think maybe..... Vivian is picking on John, and God Bless his heart for he is not here to defend himself.

Abiyah

terluvire

09-06-2006, 05:41 PM

Hi Abiyah,

I thought at first she was referring to 2Pillars, but because of this quote of godchild's, it seems clear that she is speaking to Kimberly:
Why eliminate your first three posts? Be careful with the 'partial' fxxx words here, as in "What the F".

Kimberly had made that comment to one of 2Pillars posts. Kimberly was questioning him which is understandable...lol

And with this quote:
One of them almost caught you (jumping from 4. to 207.) but they're all so thrilled to have a 'newby' to support them, you've been welcomed once again.

I think godchild is referring to when Angie questioned Kimberly about her location because of Kimberly's IP address, this is when Kimberly first started posting. And that we have accepted Kimberly which I'm sure has disappointed Vivian.

I do agree though that Vivian thinks one here is John Cody, which I do not agree with. Maybe Vivian can clarify who she was speaking to.

Regarless I am still amazed that she has not touched the subject of 2Pillars vile teachings. Either way, she is unbelievable...lololol

angie0401

09-06-2006, 05:45 PM

Hello Terluvire & abiyah,
I was just thinking the same thing about Vivian coming here to try to attack someone, but doesn't bother to say one word about the vile twisting of Scripture that 2pillars is doing.

Have you read "The Great Divorce", by C.S. Lewis?
One part shows people that are given the chance to choose to go to a "paradise". Many refuse, though, based on the people that are there already. One lady says that she's not coming if her ex-husband is allowed in - unless she can be in charge of "straightening him out". I think there are a few people here that would refuse to enter Heaven if "we" are there, too. Pride and stubborness are very bad traits...

abiyah

09-06-2006, 05:49 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif LOL ! Ahhhhhh Terluvire ! I messed up .. LOL ! I guess my main focus was the Vivian addressed her post to " John ".... LOL ! Whoopsy ! LOL ! So who is John ? What is that all about ? LOL ! I'm so laughing at myself right now..... my goodness ! LOL !
Teluvire... I think you needed to ask me if I understand in stead of vice versa..... LOL ! Right ? Ahhhh DUH ! LOL ! Hello ? LOL !

Agape,

Abiyah

terluvire

09-06-2006, 05:49 PM

Good analogy Angie, I sure hope it would never come to that kind of thinking. It truly is sad.

Pride and being stiffnecked is an awful thing.

terluvire

09-06-2006, 05:53 PM

Abiyah...you truly are funny girl....lololol

Hmmmmm I wonder if Vivian will explain herself and maybe stand with us as a sister in Christ against 2Pillars vile teachings?

abiyah

09-06-2006, 05:59 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifHi There again Terluvire & Angie ! : ))

LOL ! Yes... I hope you got a laugh too LOL !

But ... yes, I do wonder why Vivian addressed Kimberly as " John ", and why has she not stood for The Truth of our Father's Word AGAINST 2Pillars ? I wonder this too.... ?

Abiyah

2pillars

09-06-2006, 06:06 PM

Silly. Most Christians do Not agree with me, but they see that I support my views with Scripture, but most have Never been taught what I post. In time, they accept me, but cling to the ideas they have been taught.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 08:31 PM

LOL...I did not see Godchild's post earlier. Do you guys think that she(Godchild) thinks that I am John Cody? I am indeed Kim Fredrick, a girl. I do not know of this John guy. Godchild, would you stand united with us against this 2Pillars? I for one would be happy to have you here. Differences of opinion and doctrines is one thing, but what this 2Pillars is selling is an abomination. He is actually trying PROVE that Noah came from another planet!(of course he is failing misserably...LOL)

2pillars

09-06-2006, 09:02 PM

BUMP!!! BUMP!!! Hello ((((((((((( http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Dear watchman_2

First of all, the problem with your theory and imagination - you're combining apples and oranges, thus, creating your own sour grapes.

None of those cited verses you mentioned and so proud about in connection with Lucifer and those other "fallen angels" have anything to do with the actual context of Genesis 1:1-2. That is just lack of comprehension on your part.

Obviously, you don’t know the meaning and the usage of word “GENESIS” do you? Perhaps, that is the reason why you keep looking for the ENDING of the Angels of Lucifer, correct?

Here’s the meaning of “GENESIS” for your convenience.

Genesis: noun - The initial stage of a developmental process: beginning, birth, commencement, dawn, inception, nascence, nascency, onset, opening, origin, outset, spring, start.

See, even Webster disagree with you. She is wondering what the hect is wrong with you looking for the ENDING of the reign of Lucifer, in the book of Genesis?

The name of the title of the book "Genesis" speaks of the BEGINNING – birth or the initial stage of the developmental process of creation -- not the ENDING of the reign of Lucifer, based on the wild imagination of your religious faith.

Let me share you the phrase I heard before, very similar to J. Cochran famous phrase.....

"IF IT DOESN'T FIT, YOU MUST QUIT".

Read my lips, there's no Gap between Genesis 1:1-2.

Any rebuttal watchman_2? NO? I thought so.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 09:32 PM

2Pillars, who are you talking to??? Watchman's post is 35 posts above yours. Careful, your "willfull ignorance" is showing!....LOL....You may not see the "Gap between Genesis 1:1-2", but we ALL see the gap which is between your ears!....LOL..."Any rebuttal 2Pillars?NO?I thought so."http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

ezekiel_37

09-06-2006, 09:47 PM

ohhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooo

2pillars is a reposter.

hmmmmm, we know a few of those around here don't we folks.

in His service
c

watchman_2

09-07-2006, 06:35 AM

2pillars,

I apologize for not responding sooner -- it is that work thing that keeps getting in the way of having a good time here on Factnet.

You only offer denial -- not rebuttal to the scriptures that I provided you, which proved your theory false.

If, and when, you actually respond to my points, I will be happy to reply.

2pillars

09-07-2006, 03:52 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Since, watchman, SC defender of faith, could no longer defend their church view and speculation regarding the "GAP Theory" brought forth in Genesis 1:1-2, allow me to show you the reconciliation of the texts in the Scripture to show their ERRORS and abysmal understanding of the God's Holy Word.

Below, please find my reconciliation of three (3)different Scriptures serving as my witnesses to illustrate the biblical accuracy of my position -- in brief CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER that are in harmony together - contrary SC' doctrinal teaching which is in ERROR.

*********************************

Based strictly on the Sccripture, this is the story of the BEGINNING before the creation of the heaven and earth. Genesis 1:1

We will tet the Scriptures speak for itself.

Hear ye.... hear ye..... hear ye.....

In the BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

The LORD possessed me in the BEGINNING of his way, before his works of old. Proverbs 8:22

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

The same was in the BEGINNING with God. John 1:2

I was set up from everlasting, from the BEGINNING, or ever the earth was. Proverbs 8:23

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:24

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Proverbs 8:25

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5

As we can see, according to my three (3)witnesses based on the reconciliation of the text (Gen. 1:1-5), the heaven and earth were still null and void at this time and had nothing with SC' speculation of Gap Theory in Gen. 1:1-2 caused by the "fallen angels" rebellion against God.

Genesis 1 speaks of the birth or beginning of the universe NOT the ending or destruction brought about by this allege "fallen angels" of Lucifer.

God Bless

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 07, 2006)

2pillars

09-07-2006, 04:08 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Jesus speaks of this time, in the Garden of Gethsemane:

And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5

Glory is brightness, a physical trait.

If one believes that In the beginning God created the Heavens (Plural) BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error.

If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into this physical World Before the 1st Heaven was formed.

Therefore, take your pick which one is correct....

God Bless

terluvire

09-07-2006, 04:36 PM

2stumbling_blocks, oops I mean 2Pillars

First of all the rebellion in the first earth age was not caused by only the "fallen angels". It was caused by satan and a third of God's children "stars" (Rev 12) which followed satan. Are those fallen angels of this age of the third that rebelled in the first age? I would say that would be a good assessment. But the fallen angels are not "all, in totallity" of the third which rebelled in the first earth age but I beleive they are a part of the third.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
"Was in the Hebrew:}
hayah
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

"Without form" in the Hebrew:
tohu
to'-hoo
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

"Void" in the Hebrew:
bohu
bo'-hoo
From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

"Darkness" in the Hebrew:
choshek
kho-shek'
From H2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: - dark (-ness), night, obscurity.

Now, 2stumbling_blocks, do you really think God created the world in this state? I don't think so. It became this way.

God states he didn't create it this way:
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
That word "vain" is tohu, the same word in Genesis 1:2. God is clearly saying he didn't create it this way!!!!!

Read Jeremiah 24. It explains the destruction of that first earth age. It is not talking about the flood of Noah's time. During Noah's flood there were people aboard the ark, there were birds such as the one Noah sent out. The earth did not perish because of Noah's flood, the dove was able to bring back an olive branch.

God destroyed that first earth age because of satan's rebellion.

Continued below:

terluvire

09-07-2006, 04:39 PM

Continued from above:

We were with God from the moment he created us which as stated in Job:
Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

We were created along with the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs did not exist in this age. The destruction of the first earth age also cuased their extinction. Again, we were not in flesh bodies then. God is spiritual so would his children be spiritual beings also.

After the rebellion, God destroyed that age and started this flesh age for each person to be born innocent of woman to make up their mind who they will love, God or satan.

read:
Jn:3:13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

"Again" in the Greek:
anothen
an'-o-then
From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

 WE must be born from above....Heaven. The fallen angels did not wait to be born through women, they instead came here defacto.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Do you really think that going from Angel to human is considered evolving? If anything the flesh is lower than the spiritual.

Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2pillars

09-07-2006, 05:04 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

The poster above is only reinstating SC' flawed understanding of the Scripture -- based only on their doctrinal speculation and NOT based on Scriptural reconciliation of the text in chronological order of events which I have illustrated.

Therefore, since, I believe I have already refuted and address all the above SC' assumption regarding the same, I will let you be the one to choose which one is true. I also believe I have already made my point on this thread.

Remember what the Lord God said ....

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Isaiah 42
16 And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

God Bless

watchman_2

09-07-2006, 10:54 PM

Tough decision! Oh my -- how will I make it?

2pillars

09-08-2006, 03:14 PM

Dear watchman_2,

I don't think, the post above, ref. "To All Open Minded Readers" includes you, do you agree?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

abiyah

09-08-2006, 03:33 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifTerluvire... WOW ! GREAT POST(S) No.'s 457 & 458 , The Truth put FORTH and DOCUMENTED WITH THE WORD OF THE LORD ! I LOVED IT ! Thank you so much for I truly enjoyed them ! For these are NOT your Words, but indeed They are of The Word of God, His Truth WITH understanding brought forth. : )

Matthew 13:23
" But he that received Seed into the good ground is he that HEARETH THE WORD, AND UNDERSTAND IT; WHICH ALSO BEARETH FRUIT, AND BRINGETH FORTH, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. "

Again, wonderful post Terluvire, and I do thank you for it, I also Thank our Heavenly Father for you, and for the wisdom, knowledge and understanding He has blessed you with. God Bless your heart beloved.

Agape,

Abiyah

2pillars

09-08-2006, 05:45 PM

Dear Abiyah,

Only those who are Spiritual, or Born of the Spirit, can understand Spiritual things. God's Holy Word tells us that His very Words are Spirit and Life.

Have you been born again in spirit of Christ, Abiyah? IF not, then when you die, you will not have a spirit to return to God who gives it to all believers.

There are NO threats to those who accept His free Gift of Salvation. There are No contradictions, just mis-interpretations.

The Old Testament and the New tell us of Jesus. Almost Every story is a story of Jesus. Do you know which person Jesus is, in the story of the Good Samaritan? Luk 10:30

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

terluvire

09-08-2006, 06:11 PM

2stumbling_blocks,

You have seriously been misled from whomever you get your understanding from.

WE are all born with a spirit, a soul. The flesh body would not be alive if it were not for the soul.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Breath in the Hebrew:

neshamah
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

The Lord God formed the body, (man) and placed a soul in that body. The body came to life when the soul entered.

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When one leaves their flesh body, they instantly go back to the Father from where the soul came. All return, the good, the bad, and the ugly. One either goes to one side of the gulf or the other, but that is for our Father to decide for he is the heart knower. Read Luke:

Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The rich man could see Abraham and Lazarus, This is after they both have died, the rich man and Lazarus!

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

All souls return to the Father.

Every living, breathing, human being, has a soul, spirit.

(Message edited by terluvire on September 08, 2006)

terluvire

09-08-2006, 06:43 PM

Oops I forgot to say hi to Abiyah and Watchman. Hello to the both of you.

Hi Abiyah, thank you for the kind words. God has certainly blessed us with eyes to see and ears to hear. Thanks be to God. His truth is a wonderful thing!!

2pillars

09-08-2006, 06:48 PM

Dear Blind SC Follower,

Soul and Spirit are two different thing, biblically speaking, even though most Christians use the terms inter-changeably.

Man was given a "Breath of LIFE" becoming a natural living soul (Gen. 2:7). Contrary to SC blind doctrinal faith, Man was not given a "breath of spirit". That is purely based on another speculation.

Those who are Born Again in the image and likeness of God are given a spirit that is of God - reimforcement of consciousness.

Unless you are Born Again spiritually, you have no spirit to return to God who gives it. That's why you need to be born again in spirit - from your state of being a natural living soul.

Look, read and learn...

Matthew 11
43 When the UNCLEAN SPIRIT is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, AND FINDETH NONE.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

See, God is Holy and would not allow uncleaned spirits, like yours, in his own domain.

I hope the above will help to put an end to some of their doctrinal errors

TRY AGAIN? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 08, 2006)

2pillars

09-08-2006, 07:27 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

The breath of life given to Adam was NOT spirit (Gen. 2:7). It was the life giving "breath" coming from Christ, thus man become a natural living soul. Because in him (Christ) WAS life. John 1:4

1 CORINTHIANS 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Spirit is the “discerner” of thought or intent of the heart – to know what’s good or evil.

As we all know, Adam & Eve did not have any idea what's good or evil until they have experience eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Here are just few passages which talks about the separation of the soul and spirit, contrary to your doctrinal belief.

HEBREWS 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged SWORD, piercing even to the DIVIDING asunder of SOUL and SPIRIT, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

ISAIAH 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for “the” spirit should fail before me, AND “the” souls” which I have made.

Clearly, the texts are speaking of two different subjects here, the soul and the spirit. There’s just no way getting around it.

There are just too many holes in SC' doctrines to overcome in vain attempt to even justify their belief.

God who is Holy would not allow any uncleaned spirit in his own domain - simple as that.

Conclusion: Unless you are born again spiritually in Christ, you will not have a Holy Spirit to return to God -- who gives it -- and record the names in the book of life.

God Bless

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 08, 2006)

watchman_2

09-09-2006, 02:26 AM

2 pillars,

Obviously, you did not review terluvire's post, No. 462, above.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man was laid out for him [commencing in Luke 16:24]. This clearly proves that those spirits that do not believe in Christ also return to the God that made them.

Also, you should question yourself as to why Christ went back to the time of Noah to save souls if only those souls that believed in Christ remained after death of the flesh.

You wrote, As we all know, Adam & Eve did not have any idea what's good or evil until they have experience eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

You are on the wrong thread if you think SCers believe that Adam and Eve ate some apple or other literal fruit.

Your 'born again' reference stinks of a teaching by another. It is further proof that you didn't learn this stuff on your own. If you were self-taught, you would know that the word 'again' is properly translated/interpreted 'from above'.

watchman_2

09-09-2006, 12:42 PM

Which one of 2pillars posts are we supposed to respond to, the "Blind SC Follower" or the "Open Minded Reader"?

Decision making time again.

2pillars

09-11-2006, 10:37 AM

watchman_2 wrote:

Obviously, you did not review terluvire's post, No. 462, above.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man was laid out for him [commencing in Luke 16:24]. This clearly proves that those spirits that do not believe in Christ also return to the God that made them.

************************************************** **********************************

Dear watchman_2,

Based on your church speculation above, do you see the richman from without looking in - ref. your version of the "story of Lazarus? Obviously, you still don't get it, do you?

In fact, even the cited text, Luke 16:19-26 supports my biblical stand but refute your church flawed assumption. Here's why....

In John 14:6 Jesus said... "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

IF so, Jesus who always separate the sheeps from the goats - you being one of the goat - what makes you think that your UNCLEAN SPIRIT will "return" to God - when you die???

See, your argument is going no where, even if I follow your church flawed version of the Lazarus story! Too bad, isn't it? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lame.gif

Again, one must be Born Again, in the image and likeness of God - in order TO RECEIVE a spirit (comforter) that is of God - to RETURN to Him, when you die.

There's is just no way around it, sorry!!!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

PS: see you guys back in a couple of days.

watchman_2

09-11-2006, 12:24 PM

2pillars,

It is obvious from the story of Lazarus and the rich man [Luke 16:19-26], that all souls survive death of the flesh. It is also clear that some souls are allowed to be with the soul of Abraham. The rest are separated by a great gulf.

So, it is fair to conclude from this story that an initial judgment has taken place upon death of the flesh.

Your John 14:6 reference is a true scripture, but does not negate the fact that all souls survive death of the flesh. You do not account for the Lord's Day and the potential for salvation during that time.

2pillars

09-13-2006, 04:50 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Obviously, watchman_2 is trying hard to divert your attention from the continuing discussion about the “Spirit”-- the kind of holy spirit that is being poured by God (every time a man is created in His image and likeness) who IMMEDIATELY returns to Him when the same man dies -- into his latest OUT-OF-CONTEXT mental equivocation regarding the separation of the SOUL (not spirit) of a man, considered as goat, AFTER, the judgment day, being tormented in hell, citing the parable (Luke 16:19-26)

The bone of contention here ladies and gentlemen, just to stay focus of the issue at hand, is the ASSUMPTION the SC followers that the “Breath of Life” given to Adam in the beginning Genesis 2:7 by the Lord - becoming a NATURAL LIVING SOUL -- is the same as the "Breath of Spirit".

IF so, then, following SC wild imagination, all creatures and animals formed with nostrils (Gen. 7:22) that were given the same “Breath of Life” in the beginning, also received a spirit - the reimforcement of their knowledge of good and Evil, accordingly to their belief!? Absurd, isn’t it?

Again, contrary to their illogical assumption, as indicated by the Scripture, the actual usage of the definite article “THE” to describe “THE BREATH OF LIFE” should have served as a hint to SC’doctrinal error. Had it been the case, the Scripture would have specifically described it so, as clearly documented in John 20:22 regarding the same.

look and read….

John 20:22 “And when he (Jesus) had said this, HE BREATH ON THEM, and saith unto them, "RECEIVED YE THE HOLY GHOST:”

And in order to have a Breath the Spirit as stated above, the Scriptures also tells us that one must be ALIVE (living soul) to call upon the name of the Lord (repent) to RECEIVE it - just as it happened at the Pentecost.

Conclusion: Unless watchman_2 is Born Again, spiritually, in the image and likeness of God, he doesn’t have a holy spirit to return to God who gives it -- to record his name in the Book of life. Sorry

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

terluvire

09-13-2006, 07:35 PM

Well fellow SC students and others, we have seen this verse fits real well with this one 2stumbling_blocks:

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

watchman_2

09-14-2006, 06:21 AM

2pillars,

All spiritual bodies already existed in the first earth age -- they are referred to as angels in the Bible. God created flesh man [Gen. 1:26-27] to place these spiritual bodies into for this second earth age. We learn from the story of Lazarus and the rich man [Luke 16:19-26] that all these spiritual bodies survive death of the flesh. Flesh mankind is nothing more than temp housing for the test God has purposed for this earth age.

The words 'likeness' and 'image', as used in Gen. 1:26-27, are not the spiritual likeness and image of God and the angels, but are the physical likeness and image of the Elohim. That is why angels appear as young men in the scriptures.

The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead and is not the same as the spiritual bodies, i.e. angels, that have been placed in flesh man.

It is clear that God has included animals in His plans for heaven,

Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. 

By the way, you wrote,
[i]Conclusion: Unless watchman_2 is Born Again, spiritually, in the image and likeness of God, he doesn’t have a holy spirit to return to God who gives it -- to record his name in the Book of life. Sorry

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 

Looks like God has 2pillars to help Him with entering the names that belong in the Bood of Life.

smyrna

09-15-2006, 08:18 PM

Hello watchman,
Hey, who else but 2pillars can be a co-judge along with God? After all, would you want to trust anyone else but someone who:
Believes Noah came from another planet, or that the fallen angels were cave men, or that for an angel to be able to impregnate a woman they would have to evolve from pond scum.

Who else would you trust but someone who also believes that the Bible states that man was created on the 3rd day,and that he is the greatest Bible teacher that ever lived?

Who else would you trust to judge your inclusion or rejection in or from the Book of Life, besides God, who has actually rewritten much of the Bible so that we can clearly see what he calls the truth?

Is there a place where I can buy a statue of 'St. 2Pillars' that I can put in my front yard? Never mind, I already have a scarecrow!