Where Have All The Critics Gone [Archive]

smyrna

09-19-2006, 06:29 PM

I've been checking in every day for a week, and have not seen any posts from the detractors, except for Arron and the newbie Balaam. They are really non-issues.

Arron has shown that he is not capable of debate. Balaam has demonstrably poor reading comprehension skills.

Both have been challenged to prove their charges of racisim and anti-semitism are valid by contacting the NAACP and the Jewish Defense League.

The others have disappeared. Why? Maybe because they finally have realized that they no longer had any credibility, because their tactics were exposed over and over.

There will always be those who will come here with claims that the SC is a false teacher. We can always debate that stuff, even though those who come here should read what is already here before they start commenting. Most, if not all, subjects have been asked and answered.

There really isn't much left to do except point people to posts dealing with the typical Chapel critic, their tactics, and let the reader decide what makes these people tick.

One thing is for certain: it is the critics that have been the trouble makers. It is the critics that have titled the threads with malice, and it is the critics who could not back up their accusations.

The critics have been disarmed by their own words and actions.

I can only speak for myself, that I know some will not like the tactics of the SC students. But we did not start these threads, we only came here to defend our Church.

We don't expect anyone to believe what we do. But we do ask that it be respected. We don't go to other Churches and forums that belong to specific groups and start attacking their beliefs.

When we defend our Church, we have to tell you why we can't believe the stuff the critics believe. But they have their right to believe whatever they believe.

Sadly, they do not think we have that right. If they did, this forum would not exist.

arron

09-19-2006, 11:02 PM

you have a right to believe what ever you want.. so do i. i choose to believe the bible and you choose to beleive man opinion i have not been disarmed by any of your doctrines. you start respecting us and maybe we can you
hey i will try to get some of them form cultbusters to come back over here and tell you the true word OF GOD. there are no cults over there so i am sure they will try to come back

kimberlyfredrick

09-20-2006, 12:00 AM

Oh brother....How do you debate a dead horse???

watchman_2

09-20-2006, 02:07 AM

Even a dead horse fears the glue factory. Arron, though dead to the truth, should fear not making the cut with God.

smyrna

09-20-2006, 04:51 AM

Arron is ridiculous, and Balaam is getting more ridiculous.

Both were asked to complain to the JDL or NAACP if they really though the SC was racist and anti-semitic. But they won't.

Why? Because they are liars and cowards.

Prove to us, Balaam and Arron, that you are not liars and cowards, and send those organizations a formal complaint.

Because if you do not, you are just what I said you are: liars and cowards.

terluvire

09-20-2006, 05:00 AM

Go ahead Balaam and Arron, file a complaint. We are all waiting to hear the response.

smyrna

09-20-2006, 05:04 AM

I'm not even going to wait. Balaam and Arron have no intention of complaining to the NAACP and the JDL. This means they are liars, cowards, and also must think it is a Christian thing to bear false witness.

We have basically vanquished all the Shepherd's Chapel critics.

It is not a sweet victory by any means. We tried to reason, we tried to be kind, even when we where under attack. But it did not work.

So we challenged them, and they have lost.One by one they left the forum, ranting and raving, but not making mush sense.

And we are now left with two blithering idiots, who are cowards,, and cannot back up their accusations with any evidence whatsoever.

Well, they can keep on authoring stupid posts.
No one is listening.

arron

09-20-2006, 02:49 PM

symrna have you filed a question to either of these groups what did they say?

kimberlyfredrick

09-20-2006, 04:13 PM

Dude, did your coffee pot break or something this morning??? LOL

smyrna

09-20-2006, 04:23 PM

Arron is playing games,and that is fine with me. It shows how ridiculous he is. He's even too ridiculous to know he should be embarrassed.

david_munson

09-20-2006, 04:41 PM

You are doing the very thing you're saying that others are doing.

What really is the purpose of this particular thread other than to chide?
---
"We have basically vanquished all the Shepherd's Chapel critics."
---
I think that this statement is a little misplaced.
All you've really done is to express points of disagreement.
That does not make you right or wrong.

Attitudes towards others reveal quite a lot about a person and what motivates them.
Opening up a thread such as this seems more like there is an "I want to argue" type of mindset than anything else.

Any one can do narrative but that is only one method of leading the readers to a certain mindset towards others that they may not have had to start with.

It is disengenuous and misleading to do such things that way.Debate is one thing but to tell others what to think ahead of reading in the threads is not something that carries with it any integrity.

Let others make up their own mind about what has been debated instead of telling them what they should be thinking.

Address attitudes when it becomes needed but let others think for themselves.
It's a better way.

Dave

}

smyrna

09-20-2006, 05:14 PM

You are not reading me right, Dave.

You wrote: "Opening up a thread such as this seems more like there is an "I want to argue" type of mindset than anything else."

No, I don't want to argue, and I'm glad most of the detractors are gone.

My mindset is one of not gloating over our achievements. We havn't acheived much really. All most of us chapel students have done is point out how ridiculous the anti-chapel group has behaved here over the last few months.

No matter where you stand with us theologically, you have to admit that people like Arron and Balaam are at best a couple of whackos.

You stuck up for llm a few days ago, telling us he "has come a long way"

Well, since he refuses to answer questions posed to him, he hasn't come far enough.

As far as telling people what to think,you need to show me where you get that.

I am very confidant that those who come here and read the archives will be able to easily see that we had some real strange personalities here, and their tactics as they were pointed out are very easy to see.

You don't have to page back far to see what they are.

Look at Arron. I tell him that since he supports someone who has accused the Chapel of being racist and anti-semitic in their teachings, then call or write the NAACP and the JDL.

So what does he do? He keeps asking me if I contacted them. Now how stupid and foolish is that, Dave?

How about llm? Instead of giving us an example of dramatically different variations in text between the MT and the LXX he just posted links to an audio book advertisement, and the other to straight LXX text of Jeremiah.

That is not debate. That is just dodging questions and using ridiculous diversionary tactics.

The reason he got himself in that position was due to the fact that for months he kept claiming superiority of the LXX over the MT, and how the SC is overreliant on MT oriented texts i.e. KJV.

But he can't prove it, otherwise he would have given us examples.

Now I know the answer, and so does he, and that is why he won't answer.

The answer is there are no earth shattering, iconoclastic differences in the MT as compared to the LXX.

And thus Dave, he has been exposed as someone who embraces tactics meant to disguise the fact he was losing any number of debates where he threw up the smokescreen that one could not trust the MT.

So no Dave, I don't want to argue. I already wrote that all we have left to do is advise new people coming here to please read the archived discussions, because they will then be able to educate themselves about the controversies and issues related to the SC.

In closing, I offered my opinion as to why the detractors for the most part have flown the coop. It needed to be profiled via a new thread.

david_munson

09-20-2006, 07:48 PM

"You stuck up for llm a few days ago, telling us he "has come a long way"
---
I don't recall that at all.
Not a problem though.
I just don't get the usefulness of this thread is all.

As you know,I'm not into all the tagging that takes place though it's proper to address attitudes that reflect a less than Christ-like approach to others that claim our Saviour's payment for their sin.
You know ,all the name calling and such.

I guess it's just the heat of the topic that causes some to get carried away with insulting others.
With comments like "blithering idiots and cowards" I find no progress or connection having any chance to allow a meeting of minds in civil disagreements.

I know that all the things said to you SC folks can force a wall between you and the person making such statements.
It's a two way street though and in order to avoid these things we "all" must look beyond the insults that people make and just state our positions without playing the same game.

If we don't come to the realization that the body of Christ exsists in and out of "cults as well as in and out of "Churches" we will miss out on the fellowship and building up of one another.

Let's face it,we don't know who is and isn't a member of Christ's body by the determination that any particular group is or is not a cult.

You and I both know that those who are Christ's are scattered throughout this world connected to many groups that are sometimes off the wall.

It's not where you attend,it's the relationship you have that makes you a member in particular.
Salvation is of the Lord.

God Loves you,
Dave

}

smyrna

09-20-2006, 07:59 PM

You aren't getting it Dave.

When I get down to calling someone a blithering idiot, coward, or whatever, they have earned those titles.

In my prior post I layed out the tactics these folks employed. They are clearly not about reaching common grond. You cannot discuss anything if:

They refuse to answer questions
They use diversions
They falsely accuse without offering any evidence whatsover.

If you cannot even discuss anything without people stooping to such nonsense, then it is impossible to find any common ground.

Is it for convenience that you have nothing to say about the tactics I described that you can easily see for yourself that have been employed by Arron, Balaam, and llm?

Balaam has done absolutely nothing but heckle us since he came on here a few days ago. And Arron went right along and cheered him on. Honestly, I thought he knew better.

I know you are aware Jesus used pretty strong language, and Paul folloewed suit as well as I am sure others.
It serves Christianity no good purpose to gloss over some of the debates that were had that are recorded in Scripture.

david_munson

09-20-2006, 08:13 PM

I do understand.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
I just think that when all else fails,Jesus is the common ground for all believers.
After all,without Him there is nothing.

I do agree that many topics of debate will not be settled this side of eternity.
(too many humans involved)
Look at it this way,if you claim Jesus as your saviour,who am I to say He isn't?

That to me is common ground.
Christ and Him crucified.
Brethren by adoption.

The Lord bless "all" of you.
Arron,Smyrna,Godchild,Terluvire,Watchman,Kimberlyf redrick,Ezekiel,Abiyah,Balaam and any one else I left out with the peace that passes understanding.

Dave

}

kimberlyfredrick

09-20-2006, 10:02 PM

Thank you David. And peace be to you brother.

watchman_2

09-21-2006, 09:09 AM

David,

You wrote, Look at it this way,if you claim Jesus as your saviour,who am I to say He isn't?

Yes -- no man is qualified to judge. However, the question remains whether claiming Jesus as one's savior is enough?

Well, that question is easily answered in scripture.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So, it is clear that claiming Christ as one's savior is not sufficient to make the first redemption at the 7th trump.

This is why false beliefs are dangerous. These verses speak to some of those claiming to be Christians.

david_munson

09-21-2006, 03:36 PM

Yes Watchman to some,I agree
but we do not know where some are in their walk with the Lord or where He has them in drawing them to Him.
As I said,we don't know who is or is not saved and we should not make a judgement about anyone's salvation because we are not omniscient.
Only the Lord knows who is included in the verses you quoted.

We are ambassadors here in this world and should allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the heart of love that the Lord has towards others as much as it is possible for us to.

I'm not excusing people insulting each other either.
There is no worth to that for certain.
When we seek to communicate by character assassination,we do the Lord no service in the matter.We begin to serve our old nature by stooping to that level.

I know that there is a time for everything but there is not a thing for everytime.
I hope you understand what I'm struggling to express.

An old friend of mine once said to me,"others may but you may not."
He was telling me that though we see other believers react in a certain way that may not be the best way to reveal Christ,we are not to do that.
(of course we fail and stumble along but we are to trust in the Spirit to help us recover)

I guess what I'm saying in a round-a-bout way is
that what others do should not have any determination on our actions or responces to them.We are to reveal the living Christ who through His indwelling Spirit resides within us.
(in spite of ourselves)

Dave

}

watchman_2

09-22-2006, 12:31 AM

David,

Christians have a duty to show themselves approved by Christ. How do we do this besides our individual walk in the Spirit? The answer is plainly given in scripture.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So, there is clear direction given to the Christian to study -- with the end result of knowledge. The knowledge is beneficial in sorting out false beliefs and making the cut, which will take place at the 1st resurrection.

You have a propensity to believe that all one has to do is claim Christ as one's savior and the rest of one's beliefs are irrelevant. This is pure bunk as the scriptures prove.

Now, I know that you are intelligent enough to read these scriptures and understand the import of the teachings. So, why then is it so important for you to hold onto your false rapture belief? Clearly, by now, even you should have concluded rapture is false.

david_munson

09-22-2006, 04:56 PM

Watchman,
I didn't even mention the rapture in this topic.
I have a propensity not to judge anothers salvation because I'm not GOD.
Never ever did I say that ones beliefs are irrelevant.

I said that our salvation rests on our "relationship" with Christ.

I'm not going to go round and round with you again.
Get over it please.
I conclude that to me ,at this place in time,though I believe in the rapture I am not looking for it.I'm not worried.
I'm looking for Christ who dwells in other believers so I can grow together with the body in the knowledge of the Lord and have a strong relationship with Him.

Knowledge is good most of the time but if it causes one to become puffed up it profits them nothing.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Error in minor doctrine does not send you to hell.Not knowing the saviour personally does.

You have error in your doctrine.
So does every Christian on this sad planet.
No one has a corner on the truth,no one.

Why do you hold onto your false "serpent seed doctrine?"
It's retorical don't answer.

Dave

}

david_munson

09-22-2006, 04:59 PM

Oh,
just one more.
--
"So, there is clear direction given to the Christian to study -- with the end result of knowledge."
---
I disagree.
The end result should be a closer relationship with Christ.

}

kimberlyfredrick

09-22-2006, 06:56 PM

I think that you are both right. The more we know of Christ, the closer the relationship we have with him. And never will we truely know him until the day we see him face to face. Can you guys imagine what it will be like to see his face? to hug him? to see him smiling back at you? Wow!

david_munson

09-22-2006, 08:06 PM

I can imagine but it wouldn't measure up to the actuality.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Amen!

}

watchman_2

09-22-2006, 10:09 PM

Some won't be hugging Christ whom think that they will. Matt. 7:21-23.

False theology, like rapture, is dangerous because it leads people to Satan.

david_munson

09-23-2006, 03:13 PM

Watchman,
do you ever have anything edifying to say?
I don't want to be an a$$ to you but come on man.
Why is it that you have to be negative in the middle of such edifying communication?
We know that peole are lost and the doctrine of the rapture is going to send no one away from Christ that belongs to Him.
He keeps us and not we ourselves or are you unaware of that?
Jude 24-25 is a good verse to come to the understanding that it's His work and we just turn to Him in total dependance for it.

Give these a read.

1. Salvation is THE WORK OF GOD ALONE; and the work of God is DONE FOREVER (Eccles. 3:14).
2. Salvation is THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE; and eternal life is ETERNAL (Rom. 6:23).
3. Salvation is BY GRACE ALONE. Works have nothing to do with it, neither good nor bad. Sin could not keep God from bestowing his grace. And sin cannot compel God to withdraw his grace (Eph. 2:8-9).
4. THE COVENANT OF GRACE CANNOT BE BROKEN; and eternal security is one UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE of the covenant (Jer. 31:3; 31-34; 32:38-40).
5. THE PURPOSE OF GOD IN ELECTION MUST STAND; and that purpose could not stand if even one of the elect were to perish (Rom. 8:28-30; 9:11).
6. THE BLOOD OF CHRIST CANNOT MISCARRY OR BE SHED IN VAIN. If one redeemed sinner should perish,for that sinner, the death of Christ would be a miscarriage, his blood would have been shed in vain (Isa.53:9-10).
7. THE SEAL OF THE SPIRIT CANNOT BE BROKEN (Eph. 4:30).
8. CHRIST CANNOT FAIL; and he would miserably fail in his appointed work if one whom he came to save were to perish (Isa. 42:4; Matt. 1:21; John 6:39).
9. The Lord our God is IMMUTABLE. He cannot change. And if one whom he loves were to become an object of his wrath in hell, he must cease to be God (Mal. 3:6).
10. THE JUSTICE OF GOD, once satisfied, CANNOT PUNISH ANY FOR WHOM ATONEMENT HAS BEEN MADE (Rom. 3:24-26).
11. GOD WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN TO HIS ELECT. Where sin is not imputed there is no danger of perdition (Rom.4:8).
12. FAITH, SALVATION, AND ETERNAL LIFE ARE THE GIFTS OF GOD. The gifts of God cannot be taken away (Rom.11:29).
13. CHRIST'S INTERCESSORY PRAYER MUST PREVAIL(John 17).
14. THE BODY OF CHRIST MUST BE COMPLETE; and it cannot be complete if even one member has perished (Eph. 1:23).
15. We are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD (I Pet. 1:5).
16. OUR LORD HAS PROMISED TO BRING ALL HIS ELECT TO GLORY; and he will do what he has promised (Eph. 5:25-27).

God is great!

Dave
}

watchman_2

09-23-2006, 03:19 PM

david,

I just did provide edification.

Can you do anything beside denying God's truth?

It is the rapturists that will be duped by Satan at Satan's return.

david_munson

09-23-2006, 03:19 PM

Look up not down.
The Lord has given us great and precious promises.
We need only accept them and walk in "obedience" in the new man described in Collosians 3.

God is a Holy God,
Dave

}

smyrna

09-23-2006, 03:36 PM

Dave, allow me to interject:
"We know that people are lost and the doctrine of the rapture is going to send no one away from Christ that belongs to Him."

I'm afraid it's not that simple. Consider this scenario:

Trouble in the Middle East escalates into the war of wars. Much of our oil is cutoff, prices are out of control. We saw a bit of that just a few weeks ago.

In the middle of the chaos, what clearly can be seen by all as a supernatural event causes the whole world to stand in awe.A being that clearly has come from heaven stands in Jerusalem.

Great signs and wonders ensue, a period of peace attended by wonderful miracles,healings, propserity. A totally new and endless power source is given us by "The One".

The world is quickly convinced that this being is the Messiah. He promises all that they will be able to traverse the heavens with this new power.
In thier arrogance and ego tripping state of mind, the "righteous" convince themselves that he is the Messiah returned, that this series of events is leading to their "rapture"
Esepecially since he declares himself to be the Messiah.

This is not a totally fitional scenario Dave. It's basically the prophetic outline. But, sad to say, the being who has brought all this happiness is none other than the antichrist.

Now tell me that believing in the Rapture "...is going to send no one away from Christ that belongs to Him."

bear

09-24-2006, 06:26 AM

Smyrna,

You make a very good point.

smyrna

09-24-2006, 07:39 AM

Well Hello Bear, it certainly has been quite a while. I hope you are well.

I was trying to make a point to Dave that it is not a trivial matter, accepting the Rapture Doctrine.

One of the things that have puzzled me over the years is that for one, rapture believers come from three different shcools of thought. You know, pre, A, and post-millenial. They can't even agree on the fundamentals of their own doctrine.

Furthermore, when the dubious origins of the rapture doctrine are commented upon such as the absolutely hilarious website RaptureReady.com,
nearly any Bible scholar would either find himself rolling on the floor laughing or shaking his head at the ridiculous arguments in favor of some rapture.

I just read RaptureReady's commentary on Margaret MacDonald. Oh man, what a joke that thing is!:

http://www.raptureready.com/rr-margaret-mcdonald.html

I may decide to spend some time tearing that little number to shreds. If that is not an exibition of ignorance on the writer of the piece,
I don't know. There are few examples of illogical assumptions such as that, that I can recall.
(other than Godchild's posts here)

In any case, when I was younger, I read Hal Lindsay's The Late Great Planet Earth. And now in retrosepct, I look back and see how I was affected by that silly book before I learned how ridiculous his theories are. My first impulse was to strangle the guy, but he had good intentions, and still does.

I don't even think Lindsay is much of a proponent of the Rapture theory these days. I don't spend much time on his website, but you would think that the theory that made him rich and famous would still be celebrated prominently there.

The latest claims by the pre-trib rapture folks attempts to tie a much earlier reference to the rapture to the Desert Fathers, specifically
St. Ephraem of Syria, as well as the Early Church Fathers. That is preposterous.

I have been a long time student of the Desert Fathers,and the early Church Fathers(it's part of my Catholic heritage) and I can assure you that they did not have any ideas of a pre-trib, any moment, snapping up of "the righteous" before the second coming of Christ.

In depth treatment of this subject, can be found
here:

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/Pretrib2.htm

See also:

http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/timeline/jeffrey.html

I don't know what other evidence one needs to see, how these straw-grabbing rapture proponents
twist and even lie to try and hype their theory.(and sell books)

It's just too bad that to many Church groups, it's not a theory, but Dogma.

david_munson

09-24-2006, 04:10 PM

One problem though.
The anti-christ isn't going to descend from the sky.He's going to "rise up" from among the people.

Regardless of all that we should be seeking Christ in ourselves and in other brethren while we study and learn Him each day ,building our relationship with Him in a deeper and stronger way.
We need to know Him as He reveals Himself to us while we are seeking His will and growing in the understanding of who He is in us.
If we're occupied with Him we'll know what is and is not of God's Spirit.

Like the people who check counterfit money.
They study the real thing so that they become so knowledgeable about it that a fake that would trick you and me would easily be spotted by them.
It would stick out like neon colors in the sunlight.

That is why we lean on Christ and learn of Him daily.

Dave
}

smyrna

09-24-2006, 05:01 PM

I don't know how you can claim anti-christ is going to "come from the people" when in order for him to convince most of the world, Christians and non-christians alike, that he is the messiah, he would have to:

Come in the same way we saw him leave,(Acts 1:11) and even non-christians are aware Jesus ascended into heaven.

I'd also like to mention that Rev 12:7 speaks of Michale casting "the dragon out of heaven" However, I'm sure fundamentalists have a different take on that verse, though I don't know why. It helps support the fact that antichrist will come from heaven, but surely Acts 1:11 does.

Every Apocalyptic scenario speaks of Jesus returning to earth the same way he left.

No other attempt to emulate Christ would be successful without this very necessary component.

Anti-christ must come from the sky, he cannot be just landing in an airpplane. He also will have the powers of nature to use during this time, as recorded in Rev. 13:13.

Hey I'd like to see King Juan Carlos of Spain or the Pope, or any number of alleged human anti-christ suspects do that!

terluvire

09-24-2006, 05:54 PM

Dave,

There are 2 beasts mentioned in Rev.13

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The beast which rises out of the people is a one world political system, or one worldism. Waters symbolizes people. (Rev.17) On his heads is the name of blasphemy, this ties into:
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The base meaning of Babylon is confusion. Babylon is the mother of lies, false religions, Idolatry. I would call worshipping satan as Christ the biggest form of Idolatry there could be.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
One of it's heads is wounded to death. How does a system receive a deadly wound? It receives that wound by the peace being broken. We see satan arriving on the scene and healing that deadly wound. If the world thinks the Messiah has returned, the whole world will be united as one under his rule.

Rev 13:4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Who is the dragon? It is written in Rev.12. The dragon is satan. Rev.12 speaks of satan, along with his cronies, being kicked out of heaven and cast down to the earth.

Satan has healed the deadly wound by claiming to be the Messiah returned. So who would make war against the world political system if all are in one accord? No one, except for God's elect who know who satan is. They will make a stand against him.

There will be peace around the world, though it will be a false peace:
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

They worshipped the dragon which is to say Satan, the one world ruler which will fulfill the role as antichrist. Physically no one could make war because there is total agreement in a one world system

People are expecting Christ to return just as he left:
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Continued below

terluvire

09-24-2006, 05:55 PM

Continued

So people are not looking for Christ to be a human again, born as a babe. The antichrist would have to appear just as Christ is expected to appear, otherwise he would fool no one.

This is serious! Those who are here on earth while the ac is here, will be tested. Some Christins will not make the cut. Remember the 10 virgins, virgins is symbolic of Christians. Not all were allowed to enter into the Marriage feast. Christ shut the door to them. We are to remain virgins until our Bridegroom returns. Many will committed adultry, which is akin to Idolatry and are not spiritually virgins anymore.

david_munson

09-24-2006, 08:12 PM

If the anti-Christ is going to "descend" as you infer,why did Jesus say in
Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Notice where He says "If it where possible"?
An implication is made that it is not possible and is backed up by
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
and
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

This is the importance of the "relationship" that we have with Christ.
We will not follow "another".
Jesus said it,I'm just qouting it.

Dave
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kimberlyfredrick

09-24-2006, 08:26 PM

What about one of the fastest growing Christian Religions that came into being with their 'prophet' claiming to have not only spoke to God but also to Jesus in person and was told to start this new brand of religion? They(church menbers) actually beleive this, and there are millions of them. Have they not been decieved???

terluvire

09-24-2006, 08:44 PM

Good afternoon to you David,

Quote:
Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

That is right. When satan is here and people are saying "Hey, Christ has returned" Don't believe it. For the false Christ shall come first. We've had many false Christ mans, meaning Christians claiming to be teaching the word of God, but all they teach is man's traditions. This is leading up to "the false Messiah, the ac".

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Don't forget, satan's angels will be kicked out with him.(Rev.12) Satan himself will be performing signs and wonders for he is supernatural. The elect will not be deceived for they know the fake is coming first and they know who the fake is. Not all Christians are considered the elect, otherwise Christ would not tell any to get out of his sight, he never knew them (Matt. 7:23), or the 5 virgins which Christ closed the door to. If all Christians are considered the elect, then who is Christ talking to, and why didn't they make it? It seems apparent that many Christians will be deceived, so the elect cannot mean "all Christians".

david_munson

09-25-2006, 03:46 PM

Not all who claim to be Christians are.
They will be deceived.
They never had a personal relationship with the Son (I NEVER KNEW YOU) so they are only giving lip service to their so called Christianity.

These are those who never had a relationship with Jesus.Never let Him teach them.
Never submitted to His correction.
Never allowed His Love to work in and through them.

They have a religion called Christendom which does not consist of getting to know the Lord but instead consists of religious activity based in human works.(man's tradition)

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terluvire

09-25-2006, 06:28 PM

David, I do agree with what you have posted above. Many believe they are following Christ, but in reality they are not. They are not following Christ's words, but man's. Man's traditions have gotten in the way and have caused God's words to become of none effect:

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

People have traded lies for truth.

But do not forget that there will be a falling away:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Most can understand that this is speaking of Christians which fall away from the faith.

The word "falling away" in the Greek is:
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.

That definition is the Feminine of G647 which in the Greek is:
apostasion
ap-os-tas'-ee-on
Neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly something separative, that is, (specifically) divorce: - (writing of) divorcement.

This should have a very important meaning. The Christians are to be the bride of Christ. The first definition is feminine, when you take it to it's counterpart it means divorcement. Apparently, they will not be allowed into the marriage feast.

Many will commit adultry by marrying themselves to satan when he is here. They will spiritually hop into bed with satan, for they will truly think he is Christ returned.

ezekiel_37

09-25-2006, 09:38 PM

Not all who claim to be Christians are.
They will be deceived.
They never had a personal relationship with the Son (I NEVER KNEW YOU) so they are only giving lip service to their so called Christianity.

These are those who never had a relationship with Jesus.Never let Him teach them.
Never submitted to His correction.
Never allowed His Love to work in and through them.

They have a religion called Christendom which does not consist of getting to know the Lord but instead consists of religious activity based in human works.(man's tradition)

What if this represents the majority of so called Christians Dave?

Some mistakenly believe that the word 'elect' refers to 'all' people who call themselves Christians, when it only applies to those chosen in the first age, and is not a title that one can earn here in the flesh.

Peace in Christ
in His service
c

ezekiel_37

09-25-2006, 09:45 PM