Llm Finished As Chapel Critic [Archive]

smyrna

08-28-2006, 06:39 PM

llm Is Finished

llm has had the opportunity to answer three questions and he has repeatedly dodged them.

He won't answer the question: What does the verse referring to the "Third Heaven" in II Cor. 12:2 mean to him?

He won't answer the question: If scientists responsible for charting the path of both manned and unmanned missions to the moon and planetary bodies are using "fancy occult math" as he calls it, then how are they able to reach their destinations with such precision?

The third question: Based upon his contention that the MT (Masoretic text)is corrupt and inferior to the LXX (Septuagint), can he supply us with an example of a variation that is servere enough to be labeled iconoclastic to either Christianity or Judaism?

Since he continually dodges these questions, he really should be considered finished here at Factnet's Shepherd's Chapel oriented forum.

Oh, he can still post his nonsense, but why would anyone pay him any attention? He has shown us, through his obvious ploys intended to divert attention from the fact he has yet to answer the three question above, that he cannot even defend his own positions?

llm is finished. No credibility. He should be treated as a bothersome drunk who babbles incoherently in public.

llm

08-28-2006, 07:54 PM

I'm just too busy at this time to spend any time here right now. Here is a book you can read that will help you answer some of your questions http://fixedearth.com/old_format.html

I think it will help to point you in the right direction...

Maybe we can talk about it later when I have more time.

smyrna

08-28-2006, 08:40 PM

Just what I mean folks! He has no time,"too busy." Then why did he even sign onto Factnet in the first place today?
And then he suggested the same website he has posted numerous times last week! I bet he has posted that "fixed earth" link about ten times!
And it does not answer the question about the space probes...
I am telling you, he is FINISHED.

smyrna

08-29-2006, 06:24 PM

LLm is finished, and this 2pillars character was finished pretty much before he started.
I doubt even llm would be so ridiculous as to state that man was created on the fifth day.
In any case, the purpose of this post is to encourage llm and 2pillars to begin a dialog. I've been salivating over this possibility ever since 2pillars began his campaign to convert all of us blind SC bretheren to his very own religion.
2Pillarism?
Maybe if llm can persaude 2pillars that the earth doesn't move, that the Septuagint is superior to the Masoretic Text, and that the Third Heaven question will be answered by him one day, then it could be an interesting dialog for us to observe.

Same thing with 2pillars trying to convince llm that cavemen are really the fallen angels, that Noah came from another planet, and that the earth will be burned up.

What a matchup!

2pillars

08-29-2006, 07:34 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

As desperation sets into smyrna frame of mind, please forgive her of continued lies and malicious misrepresentation of my stand. The motive is very simple, smyrna and company could no longer defend their flawed understanding of the Scripture, therefore, she has to attack the messenger, personally.

Even ezekiel_37 who belong to this group (SC) could attest to smyrna’ malicious misrepresentation of my stand. In fact his understanding of my position is accurate. Here is my evidence – ezekiel_37 own words.

************************************************** ************************************
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:09 am: By ezekiel_37

ezekiel_37>>>2pillars seems to believe in more than one kind of man. If I understand him correctly, he contends that there are more than one world, where there are people(that God has created)and that Gen covers the different creations of man, on each of the different worlds....(including Noah who is the first on this planet?)

When he speaks of worlds, he does not mean age, but actual other planets. <<<

************************************************** ************************************

Of course, I will be more than happy to debate anybody who disagree with me - so long as the premise is based on my recorded stand and not just made up story like the malicious lies smyrna is trying to employ.

Do you agree that it is a shame for a poster like smyrna' conduct unbecoming to even represent SC doctrinal view on this thread? I think so.

God Bless

smyrna

08-29-2006, 08:01 PM

I will only address 2pillars directly one more time. And that is this is to challenge him to answer these questions:

Did you, or did you not, make a mistake in claiming that the Bible,(KJV version)states that man was created on the fifth day?

Do you, or do you not, realize that the nephilim are fallen angels that came from heaven, as is stated not only in the Bible, but in the book of Enoch, and other ancient texst that were contemporaneous with the Biblical manuscripts?

Do you have Biblical documentation that Noah came from another planet?

If you cannot answer these questions, then you are not deserving of participation in this forum, whether you continue to try to do so or not.

And just for clarification, I really do not care what your opinion is of whether or not I represent chapel teachings to your satisfaction.

Calling me a liar, heretic, or whatever doesn't bother me either. When you frequent the boards at Factnet or many other forums, one comes to expect such attacks.

Finally, you cannot debate. You are incapable of debate. All you do is engage in pontification. You consistently offer flimsy or highly questionable documentation to support your assertions.

kimberlyfredrick

08-29-2006, 09:00 PM

O.K., O.k., 2Pillars, you finally convinced me. I through out my Bible today which is completely filled with horrible lies and half truths and I placed an order for my new "Inspirational Bible" Fate magazine(publishers clearing House said it will be here in 4-6 weeks, yeah!) Oh, I might be the next Million dollar winner, course you know I gotta keep ordering their stuff to really win. Anyway, here is a list of my new "truths" which you so patiently drilled into my head. 1. Adam was created on the 5th day as a prehistoric Bigfoot/caveman 2. Cain was a murderer and as punishment from God had to mate/marry a woman who's desendants were Mermaids/Mermans(hey that explains those "fish scales" in the eyes of that blind man that that dude Jesus fixed, cool!) 3. Noah was a narley spaceman who captained the S.S. A.R.K. and brought intelligent life to this planet Earth(not the OTHER ONE!). He also invented the Internet while he was wearing his "Happy Helment" and singing the "Happy Happy Joy Joy" theme song. 4. My secret de-coder ring is on the blink. more dcotrine "truths" later. Stay tuned boys and girls!

kimberlyfredrick

08-29-2006, 10:23 PM

5. The Rapture theory is not a Theory. When the S.S. A.R.K. re-enters the orbit of the Earth(not the OTHER ONE!) Noah will give the order and Scotty will push the jolly candy-like red button which will emit a laser beam into the area of the 3 pyraimds of Egypt which will bounce off and send a signal directly to the 3 Pyramids of the city of Cydonia on the planet Mars while connecting to the 3 pyramids of the planet Nibula also known as planet X. This beam of light will instantly return and connect all the pyramids of planet Earth(not the OTHER ONE!) and return to the spaceship SS A.R.K. At this time all the Saints will be alerted to put on their "Happy Helments" they recently purchased from Fate magazine. In unison, the Saints dial the secret code on their flip-top cell phones and give the command, " Scotty "Beam us up". As for the secret code, Its a secret and I cannot tell you or the M.I.B. will come and get me.

ezekiel_37

08-30-2006, 12:56 AM

In unison, the Saints dial the secret code on their flip-top cell phones and give the command, " Scotty "Beam us up". As for the secret code, Its a secret and I cannot tell you or the M.I.B. will come and get me.

Oh, Kim...we could have some grand discussions....I love Science Fiction.

A....I thought it was a secret decoder RING....
B....As for the secret.....I think Paul covers that well enough in 1Cor15....lol...which coincidentally is dispositive of the rapture.

in His service
c

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 03:19 AM

I agree with you Ezekiel. The rapture theory is just that, completly false. Did you think the above was for real? LOL I guess I need to post more.}

ezekiel_37

08-30-2006, 06:23 AM

No, not at all, just having a little fun....I really do like sci-fi. I know you were just funning.

It's all good!

Peace in Christ

ezekiel_37

08-30-2006, 06:30 AM

The only thing that I could find online about any belief or teaching that man was made on the fifth day, is linked with Jewish magical spells and tradition, and not on the Word of God. Something about making a 'golem', a clay sculpture that a man can(according to jewish tradition) place a soul in it via magic.

Again, this is info that is linked to the 5th day teaching and is tradition, not the Word.

I am afraid that 2pillars has exhausted my patience.

2pillars, all one can do is drop seeds and let God grow them. You have done this, as we have for you. To each there own....take your, but I'll have the truth. You may call it a lie, but I do not recognise your authority, nor biblical interpretations.

Thank-you but no thanks.

in His service
c

smyrna

08-30-2006, 11:41 AM

watchman_2

08-30-2006, 11:52 AM

kimberlyfredrick,

You wrote, He [Noah] also invented the Internet while he was wearing his "Happy Helment" and singing the "Happy Happy Joy Joy" theme song.

Thanks for the update. For the past 7 years or so, I was under the impression that Al Gore invented the internet.

You are too funny! Thank you! I thoroughly enjoyed your post.

watchman_2

08-30-2006, 11:57 AM

Back on topic -- llm never started as a critic. If you folks recall, he has primarily been here on a marketing campaign for his whacky mentors.

It has only been within the past few months that he actually has explored the Bible on his own.

So, all things considered, he has made remarkable progress.

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 03:45 PM

Hello Everyone! Ezekeil, Watchman, I am glad you 2 enjoyed my posts. It was done in good fun. I have been reading the "discussions" with 2Pillars and all of you have done such a fine job answering his questions to the point that his questions just became comical to me. I mean, this guy is sold on his Ufology Theories so bad he has turned to the Holy Bible to validate them and that my friends is were the Lunacy begins! The more I read of his posts the more I was convinced that he has no regard for our Fathers Word. His style of "comic Book Religion" reminds me of Sci-Fi plots and Children's Cartoons! LOL I just thought I would show him the same respect he had given all of you. Come on, this guy probably thinks the Devil is red and carries a pitch fork!

llm

08-31-2006, 12:42 PM

You guys sound like the pharasees. They mocked Jesus too when he told the truth. They called him a drunkard and a lunatic, and even accused him of being possessed.
Really, you should get this book. it will help to answer your questons...as for the lxx stuff, it is not hard to research the differences,
but the fact that the old testament quotes in the new testament are the lxx and not the mt should be proof enough. I have posted some differences in previous posts...I will be back later though when I can take the time. I am not finished. and I have not been proven wrong at all. I'd say Arnold is finished and his teaching is wrong.

THE EARTH IS NOT MOVING (One Page Summary)
FACTS:

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THE EARTH ROTATES ON A "AXIS" DAILY AND ORBITS THE SUN ANNUALLY. NONE.
ALL CALCULATIONS FOR ECLIPSES, THE SPACE PROGRAM, NAVIGATION, SATELLITE MOVEMENTS--ANYTHING THAT DEMANDS PRECISION AND ACCURACY--ARE BASED ON A NON-MOVING EARTH. BOILED DOWN, HELIOCENTRIC MATH IS THE SAME AS GEOCENTRIC MATH. MATHEMATICS HAS BEEN INVENTED SPECIFICALLY TO UPHOLD COPERNICANISM. (EINSTEIN CALLED MATH AN "ART FORM" AND SO IT IS!)
NO EXPERIMENT HAS SHOWN THE EARTH TO BE MOVING (MUCH LESS AT 30 TIMES RIFLE BULLET SPEED IN SOLAR ORBIT AND 250 TIMES RBS AROUND A GALAXY!) ONE WOULD THINK SUCH SPEEDS WOULD FLAP ONE’S COLLAR A LITTLE EVEN IF THE "SCIENCE" ESTABLISHMENT SAYS NO....
MULTIPLE EXPERIMENTS HAVE SHOWN THE EARTH TO BE STATIONARY.
REVISIONIST HISTORY REVEALS THE ROLES THAT COPERNICUS, KEPLER, GALILEO, NEWTON, EINSTEIN, SAGAN ET AL HAVE PLAYED IN FOISTING THIS LIE ON MANKIND.
THE LOGIC AGAINST A MOVING EARTH IS OVERPOWERING.
WORLD-CLASS ASTRONOMER SIR FRED HOYLE SAID TAKE YOUR PICK BETWEEN THE TWO MODELS....
COPERNICANISM PAVED THE WAY FOR DARWINISM (WHICH SPAWNED MARXISM, FREUDIANISM, EINSTEINISM, SAGANISM)
STAR SPEEDS ARE NOT A PROBLEM WHEN THE THICKNESS OF THE UNIVERSE IS SEEN TO BE WHAT IT REALLY IS, THAT IS, LESS THAN 1/2 LIGHT DAY THICK. BEGIN HERE...
NASA’S SPACE PROGRAM IS LABELED "ORIGINS RESEARCH" AND COSTS TAXPAYERS MEGA-BUCKS. COMPUTERIZED TELESCOPES ARE PROGRAMMED TO SEND BACK "SYNTHESIZED IMAGES". THE "IMAGE WARPER" PERMITS "GEOMENTRIC TRANSFORMATIONS" WHILE "ORIGINS TECHNOLOGY... CONFIGURES THE MULTIPLE SMALL MIRRORS..." IN THESE TELESCOPES. TALK ABOUT A CON JOB!
THE BIBLE SAYS THE EARTH IS NOT MOVING AND CANNOT BE MOVED. WHAT’L IT BE FOLKS? FALSE SCIENCE AS THE SOURCE OF ABSOLUTE TRUTH...OR GOD’S WORD??
Book Order

llm

08-31-2006, 12:48 PM

http://www.christianseparatist.org/ast/hist/toc.htm

plow_deep

09-01-2006, 04:55 AM

Uh oh,
Here comes brother Esau trying to pass his Aryan kids off as his brother Jacobs kids (House of Judah and the House of Israel) again.

Must still be angry over selling out his birthright for a bowl of communist/facist red pottage.

Nothing new under the sun...

llm

09-01-2006, 01:08 PM

Are you talking about the Edomites of the Red Shield? The descendants of Cain and Esau? The 2 horned beast of the antichrist? I'm sorry, but I do not identify with that group. But Herrell does make a good point about bible history regarding the MT and the LXX.

terluvire

09-01-2006, 01:40 PM

Gee llm,

You are real quick to agree with 2Pillars..Ummm did you ask 2Pillars which they use...the MT or the LXX??? Or doesn't it matter because they agree with you? Is that how it works with you?

I'm really not expecting an answer, it was an observation.

llm

09-01-2006, 02:16 PM

"Today, God is still working on the 3rd Heaven -- preparing it for us Christians to dwell in when this place is burned."

This is what I agree with. This is also what Marshall Hall at FE says. When Christ comes, the old earth will melt and flee away and be replaced by the new heaven and new earth that is being prepared.

I don't agree with everything everybody says, and there may be a few things that I could agree with Arnold on. Heck, even if the devil said "the sky looks blue", I'd probably have to agree. See what I mean?

llm

09-01-2006, 02:18 PM

You have to be able to rightly divide the word of truth. Right?

llm

09-01-2006, 02:21 PM

You have to be able to rightly divide the word of truth. Right?

plow_deep

09-02-2006, 11:18 AM

llm,

What I'm saying is that the Aryan race is a branch from Esau, not Joseph. They are not a part of the 10 tribes of the House of Israel. Plain and simple.

As far as Bible versions go, I once wanted to make the LXX part of my collection for study. But after checking out in detail a few of the links you provided to racist Aryan white power religious websites, I have decided against it.

I do not need the stumblingblock of racial hatred that many of the websites you link share. They absolutely reek of it.

I have noticed they share a common theme of using the LXX as their source of study.

I think I'll stick with the KJV.

I'm grateful that you have pointed out this danger with the postings of your links.

Peace

(Message edited by plow_deep on September 02, 2006)

llm

09-02-2006, 04:07 PM

"What I'm saying is that the Aryan race is a branch from Esau, not Joseph. They are not a part of the 10 tribes of the House of Israel. Plain and simple."

What do you mean by "Aryan race"? Causasians? France, England, Germany, Denmark, Swiss...?

ezekiel_37

09-02-2006, 04:29 PM

from the list above......germany.

llm

09-02-2006, 04:37 PM

So are Germans not from the lost tribes of Israel. Are they Edomites?

llm

09-02-2006, 06:21 PM

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/index.html
Here you go Plow_Deep, you can come here to read it.

plow_deep

09-02-2006, 07:28 PM

Hey thanks for the link llm.

I love to make comparisons.

Quite a bit of stuff on that website. LXX plus the books of Jasher, Enoch, Jubilees and a book on Anglo-saxon history from 1823.

I'll be reading for awhile.

By the way, when the tribes disappeared into bondage of the Assyrians and spread into the Caucasus mountains and out of biblical history, who should appear within a few hundred years (Assyrian empire fails) in europe?

The Celts.

They werent nearly as backwards as our Greek influenced western history books make them out to be.

A lot of good descriptions recorded by Romans. Ceasar (I think, its been yr.s) describes Celtic sailing ships as huge, holding upwards to 300 people and sailing circles around Roman galleys.

How big was the Mayflower?

Peace

terluvire

09-03-2006, 02:50 PM

Hi Plow Deep,

You said:
As far as Bible versions go, I once wanted to make the LXX part of my collection for study. But after checking out in detail a few of the links you provided to racist Aryan white power religious websites, I have decided against it.

I do not need the stumblingblock of racial hatred that many of the websites you link share. They absolutely reek of it.

I couldn't have said it better. I am thankful that you truly do check everything out!

llm

09-03-2006, 03:31 PM

Don't blame the LXX, it has been around alot longer than the internet, and even Jesus and his apostles used it. Also, the whole Eastern Orthodox Church that Paul started use it to this very day, and have never accepted the MT as divinely inspired.

abiyah

09-03-2006, 05:20 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifTerluvire WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " I couldn't have said it better. I am Thankful that you truly do check everything out! " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

AMEN ! : )

Llm WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Don't blame the LXX, it has been around alot longer than the internet, and EVEN JESUS and his apostles USED IT. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

Jesus used the LXX ? I was not aware of that... show me were that IS written, because my Bible says that Jesus IS The Word of God, The Living Word.

John 1:1
" In the beginning WAS THE WORD, and THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, and THE WORD WAS GOD. "

John 1:14
" And THE WORD [ That being The Word of God ] was MADE FLESH [ He IS The Living Word ], and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the Only Begotten of The Father,) full of grace and truth. "

John 14:9
" Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip ? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us The Father ? "

John 14:24
" ................. ; and THE WORD which ye hear is NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S WHICH SENT ME. "

Abiyah

llm

09-03-2006, 05:54 PM

Abiyah, all the Old Testament quotes recorded in the New Testament are from the LXX and not the MT.

plow_deep

09-04-2006, 11:51 AM

"Don't blame the LXX, it has been around alot longer than the internet"http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Well, okay... but let me check with Al Gore on that one.

Abiyah, I understand what you are getting at and Ive seen you try to explain it in previous posts when this subject came up. Its such a simple fact and llm misses it in his haste to defend the LXX.

Keyword: IS
Keythought: From within
Clue from Al Pachino quote: Badges!??! We don need no stinkin badges!

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Living Word.

Peace

(Message edited by plow_deep on September 04, 2006)

llm

09-04-2006, 12:38 PM

I understand that Jesus is the living word, so if what came out of his mouth resembled more the written text of the Septuagint than the Masortite
(Since Jesus always said "It is written...")then it should be case closed.

kimberlyfredrick

09-05-2006, 02:31 PM

llm, Are there significant differences that we should be aware of? could you give me an example?

llm

09-05-2006, 05:06 PM

There are so many. Try the Book of Jeremias. Read them side by side.

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Jeremias/Jeremias%20LXX.htm

http://www.arcoc.org/AudioBible/Audio%20Bible%20Online.htm

smyrna

09-15-2006, 03:07 AM

LLM likes to promote this Marshall Hall book, The Earth Is Not Moving

One really needs to read this critique of the book, and you will see that Marshall Hall is just another whacko conspiracy theorist:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i2/geocentrism_review.asp

smyrna

09-15-2006, 03:29 AM

LLM has agian failed to answer the question as to whether there are any earth shattering, iconoclastic variations between the LXX and the MT. This guy just merely posts website links, one listing an audio book, another just the LXX text of Jeremiah.

Neither answers the question.

Outside Washington, I've never seen a spin doctor the likes of LLM.
He distracts, digresses, and basically uses any tactics that keep him from being pinned down.

I'll give him credit in that he appears to have offered a brief explanation of his belief in the third heaven. But his answer begs the question as to what he may think are the first and second heavens.

So as far as I can tell, here is the score card:

One, the question of the validity of geocentrism, and how space probes can get from here to the other bides using what he has termed "fancy occult math" he has failed to answer the question.

Posting some drivel from a book no one takes seriously except people who should be on Thorazine does not answer the question.

On the question of LXX vs MT, he also has failed, as has been explained above.

On the question of the Third Heaven, he claims it is being constructed, as if there is some large celestial construction project going on. Perhaps he can tells us, as I've queried above, what the first and second heavens mean to hom.

I stand corrected that llm was not a chapel critic when he came here. I wonder what brought him here then.

And since I've been away for a couple of weeks, I can breathe a sigh of relief that this "2pillars" nutcase has apparently taken off once again into cyberspace,no doubt to try and plant his seeds of confusion among others that may be more receptive to his insane rants. I hope life is peaceful for him on the planet Weirdo.

smyrna

09-16-2006, 09:02 PM

Has anyone else noticed that when I come back from work and frequent these forums,llm does a disappearing act?

We know why. I've staed that I was going to stay on him until he answer the questions posed to him. He knows what they are, I am not going to repeat them here. He only needs to read this thread to find them, but he won't. he can't answer them, because he would have if he could. And because he can't answer them, he cannot support his own arguments.

He has no credibility. He is finished. I hope he doesn't come back here, for his own sake. Because he has made himself a laughing stock, he offers nothing but cheap entertainment for us, but it is sad to see a person in his condition.

Just so it does not get lost in the shuffle, in answer to llm's stupid repetition of his support for the goofball theorist marshall Hall.

Check out this link and related material offered there:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i2/geocentrism_review.asp

smyrna

09-18-2006, 04:55 AM

Well, another day gone by, and no llm. Maybe he is at Space Camp.

smyrna

09-18-2006, 12:33 PM

Another day. One more day that we can affirm that llm is unable to answer the questions posed to him.

2pillars as well. Another day that he shies away from this thread, because he will not admit he is off the wall. He has claimed that man was created on the 3rd day, then the fifth day, any day but what the Bible states, the sixth day.

Hopefully both of these clowns will stay away from this forum entirely. They serve no prupose here other than to remind us how confused and twisted people can get.

I think that what is best for us chapel students is to continue to defend our right to believe what we believe and be ready to expose others by using their own words, how intent they are to spread falsehoods, and use other tactics that are not fitting for individuals who call themselves Christians. They are free to believe what they want to believe, we only ask for the same respect.

No one with the Shepherd's Chapel claims to be perfect. But we did not come here to Factnet to attack other's beliefs, their teachers, or their Churches, in the rare instances where they would even tell us what their affiliations are.

We did come here to show others that we will not tolrate their attacks. We will not tolrate their accusations. We will not tolrate their attmpts at slander.

If they disgaree with what the Chapel teaches, let them say so but then move on. They will not gain any converts to their type of Christianity.

Their type of Christianity allows for them to author threads, and title them with malicious phrases and accusations.

They have had no problem accusing the Chapel of racism, anti-semitism, and a whole list of other completely unprovable charges.

We Chapel students did not come here and start all the nonsense. We came here to defend against such ridiculous rantings, and we will remain here to defend against them, and we will go anywhere else on the web where such behaviors are present.

smyrna

09-18-2006, 06:11 PM

Hey llm, when you do show up, just in case I was wrong, and you didn't make it to Space Camp, you can make reservations here:

http://www.spacecamp.com/category.php?cat=Space

Hey, maybe once you convince the Space Camp owners that those "bumbling idiots" (as you call them) at NASA are all wrong, you can become a counselor there.

Maybe you can get them to rename it "Camp Fixed Earth"!

smyrna

09-19-2006, 12:21 PM

Just another day.

Just another day that llm dodges the three questions put to him. All he has to say is "I don't know" to any or all of them. But he can't say that.

He can't say that, he can't answer, all he ever does is copy and paste irrelavent links to sites that do not answer the questions.

He is finished, and probably knows it. He probably comes here every day to see if I am still posting here. Oh yes, every day I will remind readers that he will not answer those questions.

It remains to be seen if I am right about that.

Hey, maybe he really is at Space Camp.

smyrna

09-19-2006, 12:44 PM

llm's First Day At Space Camp

Conselor: "Welcome boys and girls, to Space Camp. I am Bill "Rocket Man" Ashton, former astronaut and I have degrees in space science and astronomy. I will be your counselor for the next two weeks. I was the fourteenth man to walk on the moon.
I was so amazed seeing the earth spinning on its axis.

llm: excuse me, counselor Bill. But the earth does not spin on any axis. It stands perfectly still.

Bill: Who told you this?

llm: Well, I read it on a website.

Bill: What else does this website say?

llm: Well, it says the earth is the center of the universe, and that even the sun orbits the earth.

Bill: But that is not true.

llm: I'm afraid it is. There is a whole book on the website that you can buy that prooves it.

Bill: If that was true, I could not have travelled to the moon. Because navigation of the spacecraft was figured out using the speed the earth was travelling not only on its axis, but around the Sun.
Do you understand that llm? Do any of you, boys and girls, understand this?

Students: Yes!

llm: They faked the moon landings.

Bill: What?????!!!!!!!!!

llm: The moon landings were faked, so that we can
say we beat the Russians.

Bill: Where did you get that, another website?

llm: Yup!

Bill: I'll be right back.
(Bill goes to the Orientation Center, where llm's parents are learning about the camp)

"Are you llm's parents?"

"Yes, we are. How is he doing?

"Not very well. Does he spend a lot of time on the Internet?"

"Yes, as a matter of fact, he does. Too much time, that is why we brought him here."

"Well, he thinks that we never landed on the moon, and that the earth is the center of the universe."

"We know. The school psychiatrist told us we should maybe take him here, so he can get back to reality."

"I don't know if I can convince him in two weeks"

"Well, do the best you can. After he's finished here, we are taking him to Bible Camp."

smyrna

09-19-2006, 08:35 PM

llm and 2pillars

Both were held to the standard that if they will not answer questions put to them, they were not considered qualified to participate with any integrity on the Factnet forums.

Everyone should be held to this standard. Because as you see, both have left the forum, because they could not continue while refusing to answer questions.

In the future, we must use this very standard in order to keep the forums clear of whackos who want to waste everyone's time by using diversionary tactics.

They cannot keep going around and around without answering questions. They cannot divert attention if they are continually challenged into answering previously unanswered questions. Persistence pays off.

smyrna

09-20-2006, 05:27 AM

How many times did llm claim the earth did not move?

It only took one question to silence him on that issue.

How may times did llm claim the LXX (Septuagint) was superior to the MT (Masoretic Text)?

It only took one question to silence him.

How many times was he asked to explain the meaning of the Third Heaven of II Corinthians 12:2?

He tried, but "left the building" when he could not explain what the second or first heavens were.

Just one more day folks, one more day that he has been silenced. Greet it with joy!

terluvire

09-20-2006, 05:42 AM

"Greet it with joy!"

LOL

smyrna

09-22-2006, 03:35 PM

Yes, another couple of day have gone by with no word from llm. Like I said, he is finished.

2pillars as well. Gone!

Why? Because neither could back up their wild claims. With no solid foundation, they have slipped below the sands.

I will give them credit though. They at least tried to defend themselves, up to a point. Guys like BALAAM, well, he can't defend himself at all.

His idea of participation in these forums is to make unprovable accusations, write silly songs, and draw from his 'unique' cultural backround, fed by heavy metal music, science fiction, and mindless late night comedy shows.

As I have shown it's easy to play his game. I can write songs and poems too. He thinks he is talented. Well, he can keep on thinking he is some wizard song writer, or comedy writer. I don't think you'll be seeing his work on the Comedy Channel anytime soon.

So if I were him, I'd keep the day job, whatever that may be. I can only imagine what it is.

Just for fun, here are some things that BALAAM might be found saying while he is at his day job:

"Get your hot dogs here, hot dogs!" "Can't enjoy the game without a hot dog...hot dogs!"....

"Sir, would you like hot wax or our special anti-rust undercoating"

"Maybe you'd like to try a larger size shoe, miss."

"I picked twenty bushels today, I'm beat."

"Would you like sprinkles on that snowcone?"

"Do you believe the boss said I didn't clean the urinals good enough in restroom five?"

balaam

09-22-2006, 04:16 PM

A day in the life of smyrna with his daddy, Darth Murray:

AM: YO! HERE! (zipper lowered)

smyrna: I'm ready, daddy! (smyrna begins his "service" to THE LEADER)

terluvire

09-22-2006, 04:22 PM

Balaam,

That was outright disgusting!!!

smyrna

09-22-2006, 05:06 PM

terluvire,

We will draw out more and more of Balaam's true spirit. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. It has nothing to do with a true desire to seek God through studying His Word.

Don't be surprised by this idiot. "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

A certifiable ranting, raving maniac, spitting out profane utterances and admitting his lusts for secular vehicles such as heavy metal, science fiction, and dark comedy.

So it should be of no surprise that his behavior would continue to degrade.

I personally am very happy he posted what he did. It proves my point once again.

smyrna

09-22-2006, 05:20 PM

terluvire,

One more thing: Balaam is getting more and more foolish because he is getting more and more angry. You can tell the guy is really getting steamed up by his virtiolic tone, and his apathy towards maintaining any acceptable decorum.

It is one thing to engage in banter, but quite another to begin using profane comments in a vain, and I do mean vain, attempt to bring others to the same low level mentality Balaam is at right now.

The guys knows nothing about reading people. I do. Anyone can see he is deteriorating, because every time he writes something, it is used against him more effectively. He is his own worst enemy.

In the past few days, he has accomplished in:

Proving he is nothing but a heckler.

Showing he has no integrity, because he is unable to back up any of his empty allegations.

He has shown that he clearly is lacking any ability to read with even a fundamental level of comprehension.

He has shown his cowardice by attempting to dodge posts that show that he is absolutely guilty of all of the above.

I am sure his next post here will be a response to this post. But it will be one filled with rage, all the while he will be denying that he is coming apart at the seams. Oh yeah, he'll be wording his post as if he is the happiest guy in the world. And when he does that, you'll know we got him.

(Message edited by smyrna on September 22, 2006)

terluvire

09-22-2006, 05:31 PM

You're right Smyrna, he is losing it.

We are to know them by their fruit and Balaam's fruit shows nothing of Christ.

He is one sick pathetic puppy.

smyrna

09-22-2006, 06:01 PM

terluvire,

He has more than lost it. Now he's actually bringing up the gun incident.

terluvire

09-22-2006, 06:35 PM

Balaam,

Pro 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Pro 10:23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.

Pro 17:7 Excellent speech becometh not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince.

Pro 18:7 A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

kimberlyfredrick

09-22-2006, 06:43 PM

Balaam, I cannot believe you wrote that. Do you know the whole world can see just what you wrote and why you wrote it??? You could not possibly know/love God/Jesus and write that post. Until you repent I will not acknowledge your posts again. I rebuke you Balaam. God have mercy on your soul. Buddy, your dead inside.

smyrna

09-22-2006, 08:15 PM

Believe it Kimberly,

This guy is clearly a disturbed soul, one that won't even acknowledge your prayers.

He's gone way off the deep end, because he knows he has done nothing but destroy himself here.

terluvire

09-22-2006, 08:44 PM

You're right Smyrna.

If Balaam actually wanted to seriously debate. after he made his vile comment, I would not.

God says not to cast our pearls before swine, and in my opinion, Balaam is SWINE!

smyrna

09-23-2006, 07:02 AM

Hopefully we will soon be referring to BALAAM as-"BAILOUT"

Because it really is time for him to do so. He is alone. Even his personal cheerleader Arron will, for the sake of his own credibility, forsake this miserable, disturbed fellow.

The sad thing is, Balaam has many trusted associates:

"My name is legion, for we are many." Mark 5:9

A word to the wise is sufficient.

smyrna

09-24-2006, 09:18 AM

Well, my post #649 just above might not have been a prediction, but it now looks like one.

For on the *Insane Lies/Latest Quotes by Pastor Murray* threads, who else but Godchild has made an appearance:

"Thank you for the quotes, balaam."-Godchild, Post #3865 9/23

And who was happy to greet her- Balaam:

"You're welcome, godchild... good to see you post again... Post #34

Godchild, a trusted associate of Balaam, the writer of the post #31(above)and other assinine
posts that are nothing but heckling, is the person Godchild is cheering on.

Add to this fact her failure to engage 2pillars, due to the fact that she would rather stay silent since he was, in addition to posting his insane theories, very insulting to Chapel students, shows here her heart lies.

Godchild, who presents herself as a champion against false teachers, had no problem ignoring the rants of a lunatic, only because he also imbedded insults into his posts aimed at the Chapel.

The problem with that is he also ripped most mainstream Churches, if you read his posts closely.But she let all that go, because of her focus on silently cheering 2pillar's hate speech.

Godchild and Balaam: "Legionnaires"

Partners in sowing hate, discord, bearing false witness,adept in using deceptive tactics, but woefully inadequate when it comes to reading comprehension. Or maybe they just conveniently pretend to misread posts to their advantage?

The reader can make the call.

smyrna

09-24-2006, 11:04 AM

The good things that have come from Balaam's post #31:

There isn't any way to misinterpret the post. Therefore, no one can attempt to defend such behavior by using spin (i.e. deliberately misinterpreting, or pretending not to understand, or offering some excuse)

It shows the author is not acting in a manner acceptable to Christians of any denomination.

Anyone who supports a post written by Balaam in the future, who has knowledge of the existance of post #31, implies acceptence of such behavior in a Christian oriented forum. And that is guilt by association. Are you reading, Godchild?

Can we be reasonably sure that Godchild has seen post #31? I think so. And do we see a public rebuke or any comment from her? Of course not.

Perhaps she approves of such behavior. We can only make an educated guess.

kimberlyfredrick

09-24-2006, 03:54 PM

Post#31 will hang around his neck here on the net like a noose for the rest of his life. He can change his user name. But he will always have to live with the fact that he 'exposed' himself here on factnet for all the world to see his shame.

terluvire

09-24-2006, 04:11 PM

Hi All,

You know how godchild would criticize Bullinger and say things about the book of Enoch and so forth. Well at Cultbuster where she hangs out, they are discussing different Bible versions and some are talking about mistakes which were translated with the different versions. Someone even brought up the Book of Enoch and said it was an intersting read. Then this one named "Hip Cosmo" is discussing the bible being written in the stars. they think it is very interesting and brought out the fact that the 3 wise men knew to follow a certain star and they would find the new King.

I find all of this interesting because of godchild's response to them. She has said nothing negative to them!!! Oh, but boy did she dump on us! She is unbelievable.

So here is the link to the thread at Cultbusters. There are 2 pages to that thread.

http://www.cultbusters.com.au/index.php?topic=186.0

smyrna

09-24-2006, 04:37 PM

Yes, terluvire, very good post and just another example of her hypocrisy.
I remember distinctly her scathing accusations about the Chapel teaching astrology, which is does not of course.
No problem with them mentioning Bullinger's work, such as Appedndix 12 which deals with the Bible in the Stars topic. They did not mention that appendix by name, but they did mention Bullinger, and any mention by us about Bullinger had Gofchild ranting and raving. But not over there.
Perhaps it is a more strictly moderated forum.

God child I can tell you, is more over her head over there than she is here. She did not know, for insatance, that the LXX and the Setuigint are one and the same!

Speaking of which, I was thinking of our good old buddy llm when I came across material which presented the MT as superior to the LXX, something llm always argued in the reverse.

Of course, he did that because whenever he began to lose an argument here, he always threw up that "don't believe the MT, it is corrupt" smokescreen to wiggle out of having to answer any more questions re a certain topic.

All in all, that forum is not populated with the whackos we have here. Godchild appears on her best behavior over there.She snuk in some jibes at the SC, like making mention of "am" (Arnold Murray) in at least one of her comments. But since she barely got a peep out of anyone, I don't think they are much interested in the SC, though it appears they are already decided about the Serpent's Seed.

No matter, it is clear to me that by their own admission, they are not theologians. So I kno0w where they are at, which will help me if I decide to participate over there.

Maybe in time they will realize that not only do you not need to be a theologian to understand what seed means, but that the Bible makes little sense without understanding the first attck on the bloodline that was the prophesies vehicle for the first appearance of our Messiah.

Another fine sleuthing job by terluvire!

One more thing: I guess Balaam hasn't made it over to Cultbusters yet (cultbusters.com.au) to post the copy of my post where **HE SAYS** says I "admitted" Pastor Murray was a racist.

After all Balaam, you said you were going to spread it all over the Internet. Well, there you go! Here is your chance!

kimberlyfredrick

09-24-2006, 04:57 PM

If he's got any sense, he'll just lay low for awhile. If he goes over there now, he'll have to drag post #31 with him. And those people may not be as nice to him about it as as we were to him here.

terluvire

09-24-2006, 06:21 PM

Good day everyone,

Smyrna, You said:
Speaking of which, I was thinking of our good old buddy llm when I came across material which presented the MT as superior to the LXX, something llm always argued in the reverse.

Of course, he did that because whenever he began to lose an argument here, he always threw up that "don't believe the MT, it is corrupt" smokescreen to wiggle out of having to answer any more questions re a certain topic.

I agree, it's a very convenient excuse for him to use, to get out of debating us, when he is losing. Though it's not a valid excuse, it's one he uses all the time.

Yes, I remember godchild ranting and raving about Bullinger here. But over there she is very quiet. Such a different godchild we see over there.

Yes, their Moderator is pretty strick there but not when it comes to bashing SC and our beliefs. Angie has been banned from there. Watchman did post there but I'm not sure if they banned him or if he left on his own accord. I do know that they did issue warnings to Watchman...lol They are not about the truth at Cultbusters when it comes to SC and Pastor Murray.

There is a thread there on the Shepherd's Chapel, but you must be registered in order to view it.

Quote:
Maybe in time they will realize that not only do you not need to be a theologian to understand what seed means, but that the Bible makes little sense without understanding the first attck on the bloodline that was the prophesies vehicle for the first appearance of our Messiah.

I agree, they would understand the prophecy which God made concerning her seed and his seed:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
They would also be more aware of how satan operates, and would be more vigilant in studying the Scriptures so that they cannot be duped.

smyrna

09-24-2006, 11:50 PM

My first post at Cultbusters.com.au

I'm sorry that I had to see the beginning of this thread, with the false accusations levelled at Pastor Arnold Murray and Shepherd's Chapel. I know that there are distinct differences in doctrines, but some of the charges against Murray were addressed by Murray himself on the www.shepherdschapel website, but ignored here and many other places.
It seems that there has not been a chance for a chapel student to offer a rebuttal to the false charges. As to actual differences in beliefs, well, we can address those once we have established those that are false.
In addition, I do not think Godchild is being honest when her post here of 9/3 stated that she has "dusted off her feet" and will no longer "witness" to the SC students at Factnet.
She has been there the past two days, not to witness, but to cheer on one of her acquaintances at Factnet, who recently described a fictitious scenario about me performing a homosexual sex act on Pastor.
This is very sad, and if you go to the Shepherd's Chapel thread at Factnet, you will see under the LLM is Finished As Chapel Critic,
not only the actual post, Balaam #31, but also Godchild defending
him by claiming a Chapel member did the ame thing, which, as you will see there, he did not.

A message to the moderator:Any SC member should be allowed simply to offer rebuttals here, as long as it is done civilly, under the rules of the forum. So I only ask that I be allowed to offer the other side of the story. I have been a Chapel student for 16 years, am not brainwashed, am not a racist, don't think Murray is a special messenger, or he teaches we were little Gods, or denies the Trinity.

I have done extensive research on Chapel critic's websites, and have found them to be anything but credible, and I believe I can prove that statement beyond any reasonable doubt.

Anyone who is honest about theology knows the subject of the Trinity was addressed by the Church counsels, but that not all Christians respect their judgment, and continue to debate the topic.
Just for openers.....Thank you..

If I am banned just for that post, we have eveidence that they are not about truth, but censorship. So we shall see............

terluvire

09-25-2006, 01:35 AM

Well Smyrna, Good post...let's see how long you last there before they ban you.

terluvire

09-25-2006, 05:57 AM

Hi Everyone,

Smyrna, I just caught your comment:
One more thing: I guess Balaam hasn't made it over to Cultbusters yet (cultbusters.com.au) to post the copy of my post where **HE SAYS** says I "admitted" Pastor Murray was a racist.

After all Balaam, you said you were going to spread it all over the Internet. Well, there you go! Here is your chance

Go for it Balaam!

watchman_2

09-25-2006, 12:45 PM

The scripture police at culbusters will ban smyrna after a few posts. I think that I lasted about one week.

kimberlyfredrick

09-25-2006, 01:40 PM

What's wrong with them over there? They endorse some kind of censorship against SC?

smyrna

09-25-2006, 11:20 PM

I know watchman, I just want them to do it to me. because that will leave no doubt that they are not interested in truth, but only their particular brand of truth.
I've been kicked off boards before, and really I don't care. I planted my seeds, and moved on. They can silence us on their own forums, but they cannot silence us from all.

watchman_2

09-27-2006, 12:36 PM

At least some forums detail who can post and who cannot. I recall visiting a couple of sites that ban SC. I don't know if cultbusters has such a ban. However, the scripture police over there are quick to warn one when one's theology does not agree with the site's owner.

As smyrna said, plant seeds and move on.

smyrna

09-27-2006, 02:26 PM

So far Watchman, the moderator has been fair. I'm rellay only trying to show how Chapel critics use some very questionable tactics, to say the least.
Godchild is doing her best to try and get me to discuss the theology of the Chapel. I know it's a ploy, because so far everything she has brought up has been discussed here. She knows our position on certain topics, and we know hers.
So with her flailing away at stuff we've already covered here,it's kind of easy to defend against, because the stuff is already fresh in my mind.

Now she's bringing up the gun incident, and trying to criticize PM for carrying a gun. It's not like it's strapped to his hip, and I did point our the Vatican has guards, and many large Churches have security, based upon need. I'm sure Benny Hinn must have one.
But it's the same argument, you know, why Peter had the sword, blah blah blah. Been there, done that.

godchild

09-27-2006, 09:17 PM

smyrna, I'm surprised. I thought we had made peace with one another. I meant it when I said I enjoyed discussions with you yesterday. Please look at the posts at cultbusters. You brought up the gun incident, not me.

Was your civil and pleasant manner a pretense? I am sorry that you feel this way.

smyrna

09-27-2006, 09:30 PM

Relax Godchild,

I have made peace with you. I made this post before I heard from you today. Let's move forward in peace, I mean no offense.
For those with no access to Cultbusters, I have apologized to Godchild for placing objectionable material about her on my website, I have removed it, and we were discusssing the gun incident there, but later on we have moved to other topics.

godchild

09-27-2006, 09:41 PM

Thanks smyrna, I appreciate it.

smyrna

10-14-2006, 03:32 PM

I hate to rub it in folks (well, actually I love it!)but llm is gone for good, Balaam and 2pillars are gone as well.

Balaam, well, I am thankful that he left after offering his mea culpa, and didn't try and come up with some cowardly excuse, like llm and 2pillars.

llm and 2pillars were so whacked out that decorum for them amounts to offering a weak excuse to exit the forum with what they percive to be some semblance of dignity. Too bad it didn't work.

llm said he was too busy and would stop in later.
Same goes for 2pillars. He said he 'had a new job" and was also too busy.

These guys must have the same play book.
But the reason I brought this up (besides rubbing it in)is that these guys essentially buried themselves under their own pile of rubbish. Once they were exposed simply by us showing them how they have painted themselves in a corner,they had no choice but to run for the exit.

There is a very important lesson in the exits of these three numbskulls.

When you are able to impeach opponents of the Chapel, with solid Biblical truth, you cannot let them off the hook. You have to keep pressing them on the point(s) they wish they can slip and slide away from.

If they won't answer a question, you have to keep asking them. And if they won't answer, make sure everyone knows they won't answer. Over and over again if you have to.

If they try to change the subject, then you say "whoah, partner!" You need to answer the question before we move on. If they jump to another thread, you ask them about the unanswered question on the thread they now wish you would forget about.

That is how we nailed llm, and 2pillars. And that is also how we shook up Balaam so bad, he had to resport to chilish personal attacks, which ended in his implosion and slinking away.

And hey folks, this isn't about hating them ro wishing them ill. I pray that they find truth and will not have to go through the humiliation again.

So remember, once we have the detractors running, we have to keep up the chase, until they are so far out of here in cyberspace, they will not return.

This is important, because the more we can show how these people came on here, confidant that they were going to expose us as racists, heretics, etc. etc, and left in disgrace, humilated because of their failures, the more people will see that we are standing for the truth, and the truth will set them free from the hands of guys like llm, Balaam, and 2pillars.

llm

10-23-2006, 09:49 PM

Your not standing for the truth/ I've shown you where to look for the truth/ if you reject it that is fine by me/ I have no interest in restating my position/ and I have been too busy to waste my time here/ I have plenty of things to take care of right now to to bother with FACTNET./ But I still stand by what I have posted in the past...

smyrna

10-23-2006, 10:00 PM

smyrna

10-24-2006, 12:18 AM

llm has not answered those questions. He said " But I still stand by what I have posted in the past"..

That's fine,but if he won't answer those questions, he can't claim what he has said in the past as true.
Those questions were challenges to what he claimed was true, and if what he said was true, he would have been able to answer them.
His way of trying to answer them was to post links to websites that did not answer the questions. And that is the truth, his own posts here attest to it.

arron

10-24-2006, 02:54 AM

and neither do you answer the questions posed to you

smyrna

10-24-2006, 03:31 AM

It's been a while since I addresswd this thread. The only reason I replied was to address LLM's post. As you can see, he is unable to answer the questions I posed to him.Don't let him fool you---he has time. How long can it take? What a weak excuse.

llm

10-24-2006, 04:11 AM

I have answered the questions/ review my postings/ you just don't like what I've had to say/ or what others have researched/ it just doesn't sink in for you becaused you are brainwashed by SC teaching/ why address it anymore?/ Jesus quoted from the LXX when he said "it is written" when referring to the OT/ if you can't see or accept that then you really can't see anything.

smyrna

10-24-2006, 04:25 AM

Read the post again. If you do not see the answers to these questions from LLM he is lying. Period.
If he thinks we are falsely accusing him, then ask him to answer one more time. He has no answers, he is the liar:

He won't answer the question: What does the verse referring to the "Third Heaven" in II Cor. 12:2 mean to him? If he offees an answer, it won't answer what the first or second heaven means to him.

He won't answer the question: If scientists responsible for charting the path of both manned and unmanned missions to the moon and planetary bodies are using "fancy occult math" as he calls it, then how are they able to reach their destinations with such precision?

The third question: Based upon his contention that the MT (Masoretic text)is corrupt and inferior to the LXX (Septuagint), can he supply us with an example of a variation that is severe enough to be labeled iconoclastic to either Christianity or Judaism?

llm

10-24-2006, 02:53 PM

1. I believe Marshall Hall covered this in his book The Earth Does Not Move if you are so interested, that heliocentric and geocentric math has the same outcome. 1 and 1 will always equal 2 no matter how you dress it up or what universe you're in.

2. There are plenty of differences between the lxx and mt. alot of what AM teaches hinges on the meaning of one hebrew word like "was" or "became" or "yhvh". If you want to see all the differences then order the AST (Annointed Standard Translation) NT. It has an exhaustive list of all the differences in its appendix. My scanner is broken so I can't copy them for you.

smyrna

10-24-2006, 04:03 PM

Marshall Hall is not a credible refernce, as I already listed a link that put Hall's theories to shame.

Also, if as you claim heliocentric and geocentric math are the same, then why did you call heliocentric math "fuzzy occult" math?

On your second point, I never disputed that there are variations in the LXX compared to MT. I asked you what differences would be considered dramatic iconoclasts to either Christianity or Judaism?

In addition, why would you put forth a reference work (AST (Annointed Standard Translation NT) on the NT when the subject is about the OT?

llm

10-24-2006, 04:16 PM

Marshall Hall is a credible scholar. He has done his homework.

I said the same outcome. The process is different

The subject is the OT quotes in the NT by Jesus and others. They come from the lxx and not the mt. that should say it all.

smyrna

10-24-2006, 05:42 PM

"Marshall Hall is a credible scholar. He has done his homework."

Not according to this source:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i2/geocentrism_review.asp

Or this source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_geocentrism

Or this source:

http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/brahe.html

Next:

"The subject is the OT quotes in the NT by Jesus and others. They come from the lxx and not the mt. that should say it all."

Not only did LM not say that initially, the question was whether or not the variations in text
between the LXX and the MT are dramatic enough to be considered inconclastic to either Judaism or Christianity.

This guy just cannot accept that he won't anwser the questions.

First he calls the math used to put space probes on celestial bodies hundreds of thousands of miles away "fuzzy occult math" but then claims that it is accurate enough to do so.

The he claims absolute superiority of the LXX over the Masoretic Text, but can't give us any variations dramatic enough to prove that statement.

Furthermore, though LLM claims superiority of the LXX or the MT, at least one scholar claims the jury is still undecided:

http://engmann.20m.com/about.html

The fact that on numerous occasions LLM used the claim of LXX superiority in order to sway readers of his posts to accept his explanations or to counter arguments raised by his opponents here on these threads, was deceptive, to say the least.

Introduction
From: http://engmann.20m.com/about.html

"The centuries old, yet still current debate, concerning whether the LXX or the MT is the more accurate and reliable Old Testament text continues to rage unabated. For example"...

(Message edited by smyrna on October 24, 2006)

smyrna

10-24-2006, 05:56 PM

More evidence:

http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/bible-chronology.html

" * There are three major OT textual types

There are two major manuscript types for the complete Old Testament (OT): The Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT) and the Greek Septuagint (LXX).

The MT was meticulously copied and passed down through the generations but is not necessarily in every minute detail the exact copy of the original. The LXX is a Greek translation of the OT and is much less reliable, especially when it comes to the recording of numbers in the text. For example, the LXX adds one hundred years to most patriarch's from Adam to Terah, thereby adding about 1500 years to the genealogy.

The third major ancient text type is the Samaritan Pentateuch (SP). As its name implies, it contains only the Pentateuch. The SP is clearly less reliable than the MT. Nevertheless, (as the Dead Sea Scrolls seem to show), the SP, along with the LXX, though corrupted, are still valuable in ascertaining the true original.

However, so superior is the MT over the LXX and SP when it comes to numbers and genealogies in the OT that personally I would not have give their readings much weight except that the New Testament (NT) quotes the LXX at two important points (that affect chronology). Therefore, the LXX at these two points cannot be ignored. In a third instance, the problem is not related to any textual problem, but rather to interpretation. The martyr Steven (Acts 7:4) interprets Genesis11:27-12:1 in an unexpected manner, whereby he lengthens the chronology 60 years. (All this is explained in greater detail in Chronology.)

In summary, then, the NT differs from the MT in two instances; the (LXX) '130' years of Luke 3:36, and the (SP and LXX) '215' years of Gal 3:17, with a third variance of '60' years due to the interpretation of Genesis11:27-12:1 by the martyr Steven as recorded in Acts 7:4. These, then, are the sole three NT differences over the MT, or interpretation thereof. The total difference possible, therefore, is 405 years ( 130 + 60 + 215 = 405 years). However, the full difference of 405 years only influences the flood and creation dates. (The 215 affects how long Israel was in Egypt, and the 130 & 60 affects the period between the flood and Abraham's call out of Ur, so that the accumulative total of 405 thus affects the flood and creation.)"

LLM: NO credibility, demonstrably questionable tactics, including deception and refusal to answer specific questions.

llm

10-24-2006, 08:30 PM

It's obvious your critics of Hall and Bouw ignore the evidence that even a child can see. And of course they have no proof that the earth is moving except in their own minds. They also ignore the explicit scriptures that say the earth is fixed and the sun is moving. Throw out Darwin and you must throw out Copernicus too.

___and there are alot more differences in the nt regarding the lxx and the mt than just 2. That is why you should see the AST appendix. It would help you focus.

smyrna

10-24-2006, 08:45 PM

"It's obvious your critics of Hall and Bouw ignore the evidence that even a child can see."

If it's so easy to see this evidence,then why are there so many critics, and why do serious astronomers ignore such foolishness?

"They also ignore the explicit scriptures that say the earth is fixed and the sun is moving."

If you had even read the links I cited, you would know the truth, which is they do not ignore the Biblical references, they quite clearly explain their position compared to yours.

..."and there are alot more differences in the nt regarding the lxx and the mt than just 2"

The author did not deny that, you took the statement completely out of context and gave it a different meaning.

And you STILL have not answered the question as to which of these varients can be considered iconoclastic to either Jews or Christians, and you completely ignored the scholar's statement that the argument whether LXX is superior to the MT or not has been argued for centuries, and is still being debated.

You really ought to learn that when you damage your own credibility, you devalue your attempts to persuade in any future discussions.

llm

10-24-2006, 09:16 PM

Does it suprise you that the whole world can be decieved about something? The educated fools.
have never been proven that the earth is moving.
My child has a better telescope than Copernicus did. And it is coming to light that we live in a plasma electric universe.

The mt wasn't written until 900-1000 years after Christ. I don't put much stock in hebrew words or meanings when it comes to interpeting scripture other than to see how it has been distorted.

smyrna

10-24-2006, 09:31 PM

How many time folks? How many times has LLM refused to answer the questions put to him?
He has not been asked for his opinions, he has been asked for specific, factual answers.

But all we get is digressions, opinionated rants, and empty rhetoric.

Heliocentrism vs geocentrism isn't even relevent to reality, because for LLM and the few clowns who claim geocentrism is a reality, the entire world of astrnomy must be wrong, which he indeed claims. But with no convincing evidnece, for if there was,so many more would be persuaded to accept geocentrism.

And, one more time, LLM still cannot produce just one variant between the LXX and the Septuagint that can be classified as iconoclastic to either Jews or Christians.

The reason he has been asked this is because he kept on using his claim of Septuagint superiority over the MT, whenver he attempted to persuade a reader or an opponent that his explanation of any number of subjects was correct.

The fact that he cannot prove that the LXX is superior, and the fact he cannot produce even one example of a dramatic kind, shows he was simply using his claim as a device to mislead and deceive.