SC Support MacroEvolution of Fallen Angels into Human Beings [Archive]

2pillars

08-30-2006, 11:53 AM

According to the Scripture, God created every living creature that moveth, from the water abundantly, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His/their Kinds from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day. Making sure all creatures including us are confined to his/their kinds.

Of course the first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the rain. Gen 2:4-7 This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.

However, based upon Shepherds Chapel' doctrinal faith, "fallen angels" (nephilim) EVOLVED into human beings - after they left their estate of inhabitation - and have sex with the daugthers of men, citing Genesis 6.

Of course, based on the above analogy, SC actually support MACRO-EVOLUTION of fallen angels (without flesh and bones) into human beings -- whether they admit it or not. Would that be a fair assessment?

Your thought please....

Thanks

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

watchman_2

08-30-2006, 12:10 PM

You utilized 'evolved/evolution' in your analogy as well as your conclusion, thereby rendering the former to not be an analogy at all. {You formatted the question improperly.}

I believe that you wish to raise the question,

Does the SC teaching that fallen angels mated with flesh woman constitute macro evolution?

2pillars

08-30-2006, 12:21 PM

Dear watchman_2,

I can see your point, however, in order for fallen angels (spirits without flesh and bone) to have sex with humans, then, angels must first EVOLVED into human being themselves and acquire sex organ, correct, following your church' logic?

Please explain.

Thanks

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

smyrna

08-30-2006, 12:43 PM

Forget it, Watchman. I already explained that we believe that angels have supernatural abilities, and they have no need to evolve.

He obviously is not satisfied with this and insists on trying to inject his own ideas into Chapel teachings and to claim we have to believe his explanations,otherwise we are wrong. Arrogant.

angie0401

08-30-2006, 12:43 PM

Wrong, 2pillars. Angels have substance:

Gen 18 - they ate (the same foods as us flesh and blood humans) with Abraham before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.;

Gen 19:3 - Lot prepared a feast & unleavened bread for them and they did eat.;

Gen 19:4-9 - the residents of Sodom apparently saw them as substance and with sexual organs, since they desired to have sexual relations with them.;

Gen 19:10 - the angels had enough substance to "put forth their hand and pull Lot back into the house".;

Gen 32:24-32 - the angel of the Lord wrestled with Jacob, to the point that his thigh was out of joint (requires substance, yes?).;

Exodus 16 - humans ate the ANGEL'S food in the wilderness.

I don't think you'll find anyone on the SC threads - SC students or critics - who believe in evolution in any way shape or form.

Now it's YOUR turn to answer at least SOME of the questions that have been posed to you:
Do you believe that the One True God created man?
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father?
Or do you believe that we were created by the Anunnaki (aka Nephilim)?
Do you believe the Sumerian texts over the Bible?

2pillars

08-30-2006, 12:58 PM

Sorry but the "Angel you are citing above is the Lord God himself - not the ordinary fallen angel that we are talking about -- as you wish the readers to assume.

Read the whole context of the cited text cited so you don't become willingly ignorant of the last day.

TRY AGAIN? :-)

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

2pillars

08-30-2006, 01:24 PM

To All SC Followers:

Here's where I stand to satisfy your curiosity.

Please be informed that I consider myself a "born again christian" and will only utilize the Holy Bible to prove your church doctrinal errors.

I repeat, I don't subscribe to heathen or in-house publication just like your church do. I only based my understanding from the Scripture.

Jesus is YHWH himself, the only begotten Son of the unknown (Name) invisible Almighty God Father -- of whom no man hath seen at any time.

Now, let's go back to the topic, do you all (SC follwers) support smyrna' assumption that those "fallen angels" have supernatural power to EVOLVED into human beings?

Thanks.

angie0401

08-30-2006, 01:34 PM

QUOTE:
2pillars-->Sorry but the "Angel you are citing above is the Lord God himself - not the ordinary fallen angel that we are talking about -- as you wish the readers to assume.

Read the whole context of the cited text cited so you don't become willingly ignorant of the last day. 

Only in Gen 32 is the angel the Lord - as I stated --> Gen 32:24-32 - the angel of the Lord wrestled with Jacob - it's generally understood that the angel of the Lord IS the Lord.

The other examples are not God alone - there were 2 angels, plus God that dined with Abraham. The 2 angels continued on to Sodom & Gomorrah, while the Lord God stayed with Abraham.

Twisting and turning again, 2pillars? smyrna NEVER said fallen angels evolved into anything
QUOTE:
smyrna-->angels have supernatural abilities, and they have no need to evolve. 

Yes, I will try again. Maybe you'll answer the questions this time:

Do you believe that the One True God created man? The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob?
Or do you believe that we were created by the Anunnaki (aka Nephilim)?
Do you believe the Sumerian texts over the Bible?

david_munson

08-30-2006, 01:37 PM

2pillars,
It didn't rain until the flood.
A mist arose from the ground until the time of the flood.
The windows of heaven where not yet opened until Noah's time.

Angie was using illistration to advance her point.
Besides that,there where angels,not an angel that went to Lot.Yes the angel of the Lord was one of them but there where more than one.

I have never heard the Sc folks say anything about angels evolving into humans.

I may not agree with a lot of their theology but that is not a part of it.They do not believe in evolution as far as I have seen.At least none that I have communicated with.
None on this board.

Angie was making the point (and I agree) that angels have manifested in some sort of physical form.

Keep in mind that we are to entertain strangers because we may be interacting with angels unaware that we are doing so.This is an indication that they walk among us and are not noticable as other than "human" in appearance.

Dave

}

2pillars

08-30-2006, 01:55 PM

david_munson wrote:>>>It didn't rain until the flood.
A mist arose from the ground until the time of the flood.
The windows of heaven where not yet opened until Noah's time.<<<
************************************************** ********************************

Dear david_munson,

Perhaps, you should read the text more closely simply because you seem not to understand what you are talking about...

Let us go back to the text that you are referring to...

Note: Insertion are mine for your better understanding.

Genesis 2
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a MIST (evaporation) from the earth, and watered (condensation/rain) the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

See, you just have to pray for more wisdom and understanding to avoid doctrinal errors.

Thanks

2pillars

08-30-2006, 02:12 PM

david_munson wrote >>>Angie was using illistration to advance her point.
Besides that,there where angels,not an angel that went to Lot.Yes the angel of the Lord was one of them but there where more than one. <<<
**********************

I agree, there were Three Angels being manifested in one of her cited text, however, they were the temporary manifestation of the Truine of God, himself -- but nothing to do with with the issue of the "sons of God" being spoken as the "fallen angels" that allegely EVOLVED into human beings - after they left their place of inhabitation.

TRY AGAIN?

Thanks

abiyah

08-30-2006, 03:01 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " According to the Scripture, God created every living creature that moveth, from the water abundantly, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His/their Kinds from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day. Making sure all creatures including us are confined to his/their kinds. " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

*** Lets look at what God's Word says.

Genesis 1:26
" And God said, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENSS; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. "

Genesis 1:27
" So God CREATED man in His own image, in the image of God CREATED He him; MALE and FEMALE created He them. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif This word ' man' as it appears here is the Hebrew word ' Adam ' and it means mankind; human beings. So then we see according to God's Word, God CREATED all the races, MALE & FEMALE on the Sixth Day [ Genesis 1:31 ]. He instructed them to be fruitful and multiply. It says NOTHING in those verses about the dust of the ground now does it, it says God CREATED them male & female. The human races were indeed created on the Sixth Day as God FIRST prepared their dwelling place, and also the fish, the fowls of the air, and the beasts of the earth [ Genesis 1:5-25 ]. These had first multiplied on the EARTH before The LORD 'CREATED' mankind. He gave mankind dominion over all the animals of the EARTH, in that they would be fishers, and hunters, and indeed gave them dominion over all THE EARTH. He CREATED them MALE & FEMALE; mankind, human beings on the Sixth Day. The Hebrew word here for create is ' bara ' and it means to create. He CREATED the races on the Sixth Day, He created them beautiful and different, and He saw that it was VERY GOOD [ Genesis 1:31 ]; For indeed they are ALL His children, and were CREATED in His image and likeness.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued in the next post.

abiyah

08-30-2006, 03:03 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued from the above post.

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Of course the first Living Being made from the dust was man. MAN WAS MADE ON THE 3rd DAY 'BEFORE' THE PLANTS AND HERBS, RIGHT AFTER THE RAIN. Gen 2:4-7 This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures. " End QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

*** The third day 2Pillars ? Not SO ! God's Word says that mankind was CREATED on The Sixth Day and that 'The Man' Adam was FORMED AFTER God rested on The Seventh Day, which would be the Eighth Day; Does not eight come AFTER seven? Indeed it does ! And indeed God's Word states that the herbs of the EARTH were created BEFORE mankind [ Genesis 1:11-13 ]. And according to The Word of God, God HAD NOT CAUSED IT TO RAIN [ Genesis 2:5 ], as you have so stated in your above quote. Can you read 2Pillars ? Do you believe The Word of God ?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifAFTER The LORD rested on the Seventh Day, He realized He HAD no man to till the ground, no farmer... He had hunters, and fishers from The Sixth Day, but had no man to till the ground. So He then FORMED The Man Adam on the Eight Day, AFTER He had rested on the Seventh Day. The Hebrew word here for
' formed ' is 'yatsar' and it means (through the squeezing into shape); to mould into a form; fashion; frame; especially as a potter. The LORD ' CREATED " the males and females on the Sixth Day and then He rested [ Genesis 1:26-31 & Genesis 2:1-3 ].

Genesis 2:5
" And every PLANT of the FIELD [ it says field, not the earth ] before it was in the earth, and every HERB of the FIELD [ and again, it says field, not the earth as in Genesis 1:11-13 ] before it grew: for The LORD God had NOT CAUSED IT TO RAIN UPON THE EARTH, AND THERE WAS NOT A MAN TO TILL THE GROUND. "

Genesis 2:7-8
" And The LORD God FORMED man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And The LORD God planted a GARDEN eastward in Eden; and there He put THE MAN whom He had FORMED. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif The word man as it appears here in verse 8 has an article before 'man', this man, in the Hebrew is ' Eth-ha'adham ', and was FORMED by God for a specific purpose, he would be The Man to till the ground. 2Pillars, you say contrary to God's Word in your above stated quote when you say that man was created on the third day, before the plants and herbs and then right after the rain. Not so ! Now The LORD breathed into this man the breath of life, 'breath' in the Hebrew is ' Neshamah ' and it means divine inspiration, or intellect. God placed in this man a spiritual awareness. And it would be through THIS man that Christ, The Saviour to ALL of God's children would come through.

abiyah

08-30-2006, 03:04 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifContinued from the above post. Finally.....

This man, that being 'THE Man' Adam, 'Eth-ha'adham ', had no help meet [ Genesis 2:20 ], and God said it is NOT GOOD for 'THE MAN' Adam, to be ALONE [Genesis 2:18 ]. And it is WRITTEN that out of the ground The LORD God 'FORMED' every beast of the "FIELD", not as the Sixth Day beast of the "EARTH", Adam's beasts were FORMED for THE FIELD, they are specific beasts, for a specific purpose... to Till the ground, they were farm animals [ Genesis 2:20 ]. And again it is WRITTEN In The Word of God that there was no help meet for Adam [ Genesis 2:20 ], after his beasts of THE FIELD were FORMED. NO FEMALE ! The Sixth Day creation God CREATED BOTH MALE & FEMALE. So God cause a deep sleep upon Adam, and took one of his ribs, and made He A WOMAN [ Genesis 2:20-24].

FIELD here is the Hebrew word 'sadeh ' and it means to spread out; a field (as flat): - country, field, ground, land, soil, cultivated field. The word EARTH is the Hebrew word
' erets ' and it means to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land); country, earth, land, + wilderness, world; earth, whole earth (as opposed to a part).

2Pillars your understanding of the creation is mixed up, and it does not flow. It is obvious to any student of God's Word that you are confused and do NOT ' rightly divide The Word of Truth ' [ II Timothy 2:15 ], with much if not all of what you have put forth, including the creation. Again, I mean not to offend you, but God's Word will STAND against your own interpretations and false teachings, its just that simple. So then... as you would say "TRY AGAIN "), but this time try reading God's Word and not the false teaching of Zacharia Stichin.

Abiyah

angie0401

08-30-2006, 03:06 PM

QUOTE:
2pillars-->I agree, there were Three Angels being manifested in one of her cited text, however, they were the temporary manifestation of the Truine of God, himself -- but nothing to do with with the issue of the "sons of God" being spoken as the "fallen angels" that allegely EVOLVED into human beings - after they left their place of inhabitation. 

Nope - you're adding to Scripture. Please show me where Scripture states that the 3 angels (God and 2 messengers) were the "manifestation of the Triune of God". Shame, shame - adding to Scripture to try to prove your twisted theology. You know Father frowns on that, right?

While you're at it, also show where anyone besides you has claimed that evolution of anything is true.

And please answer these questions:
Do you believe that the One True God created man? The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob?
Or do you believe that we were created by the Anunnaki (aka Nephilim)?
Do you believe the Sumerian texts over the Bible?

Thanks

terluvire

08-30-2006, 03:19 PM

Awesome post Abiyah!! It comes straight form God's word. Rightly dividing the word makes all the difference.

2 Pillars, please show WITH SCRIPTURE that God created man on the 3rd day. Again, show with scripture not supposition.

Angie,

You said:
Nope - you're adding to Scripture. Please show me where Scripture states that the 3 angels (God and 2 messengers) were the "manifestation of the Triune of God".

I was thinking the same thing when I read 2 Pillars post. No where does it state in Genesis that the 3 angels were the manifestation of the triune God.

2 Pillars can you show evidence in God's word, in the book of Genesis, where it states this?

2 Pillars we are all waiting for you to answer Angie's question:
Do you believe that the One True God created man? The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob?
Or do you believe that we were created by the Anunnaki (aka Nephilim)?
Do you believe the Sumerian texts over the Bible?

It's rather simple, a yes or no answer would do fine.

abiyah

08-30-2006, 03:24 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Note: Insertion ARE MINE for your better understanding.

Genesis 2
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a MIST (evaporation) from the earth, and watered (condensation/RAIN) the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."END
-------------------------------------------------

Genesis 2:6
" But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. "

Mist in the Hebrew here is ' 'Ed ' and it means a fog; mist, vapor. The mist that went up from the earth was the dew that watered the earth, for IT HAD NOT RAINED ! READ THAT AGAIN 2PILLARS.

Gensesis 2:5
" And every plant of the FIELD before it was in the earth, and every herb of the FIELD before it grew; for The Lord God HAD NOT CAUSED IT TO RAIN UPON THE EARTH, and there was not a man to till the ground."

Abiyah

2pillars

08-30-2006, 03:33 PM

Dear Abiyah,

If you are that gulliable, then I have some prime swamp land that I am sure you would be interested in seeing. Your personal interpretation is Not supported by Scripture.

Abiyah and the rest of the SC followers don't know the difference between God's time and man's time. God has but 7 Days and Today is the 6th Day. At the end of this 6th Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

The Un-Scriptural idea, that the 6 Creative Days and the 1 Day of Rest, are 24 hour periods of Time, is refuted by Scripture. The 7th Day has no End .

There is no such thing as Eight Day Creation in the Book of Genesis. That is only based on your church wild imagination.

Sorry

abiyah

08-30-2006, 03:53 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " There is no such thing as Eight Day Creation in the Book of Genesis. That is only based on your church wild imagination. " END
-------------------------------------------------

Hi 2Pillars !

You are calling God's Word, a "church wild imagination ". I mean, did I not quote DIRECTLY FROM God's Word ? And did I not bring forth the Hebrew words to HELP YOU 2Pillars better understand ? Yes I did ! Your doctrine IS BAD [ Matthew 16:6 & Matthew 16:12 ] ! We all here are trying to help you understand The Word of The LORD, but you continue to wrestle with it, and well.... know and understand that you will loose in the end, because you are only hurting yourself by listening to Zacharia Stichin, and NOT God.

Proverbs 1:7
" The fear of The LORD is the beginning of knowledge; BUT FOOLS DEPISE WISDOM AND INSTRUCTION. "

Abiyah

2pillars

08-30-2006, 03:56 PM

Abiya wrote:>>>
Genesis 2:6
" But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. "

Mist in the Hebrew here is ' 'Ed ' and it means a fog; mist, vapor. The mist that went up from the earth was the dew that watered the earth, for IT HAD NOT RAINED ! READ THAT AGAIN 2PILLARS.

Gensesis 2:5
" And every plant of the FIELD before it was in the earth, and every herb of the FIELD before it grew; for The Lord God HAD NOT CAUSED IT TO RAIN UPON THE EARTH, and there was not a man to till the ground." <<<

************************************************** ***********************************

Dear Readers,

First of all, this poster Abiyah is trying hard to pervert the Scripture to suit his equivocation.

Notice the above poster tried to interchange the chronological order of the event in Genesis 2:5-6 ny listing Gen.2:6 first before Gen. 2:5 to make it appear that the rain did not happen when it WATERED the whole face of the ground!!?

On top of it, the poster argues fallaciously about the mist that went up (evaporation )from the earth which is not being contested of course -- BUT the poster intentionally did not mention anything about the same mist that WATERED (condensation - in the form of rained) the whole face of the ground on the same continuing context of the text. Perhaps, the poster must have skipped his/her elemetary science lesson heh? ha ha ha

What does it tells you about this poster Abiyah, ladies and gentlemen? How can somebody trust such person who belongs to a church like SC?

What a shame indeed.

abiyah

08-30-2006, 04:01 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " There is no such thing as Eight Day Creation in the Book of Genesis. That is only based on your church wild imagination. " END
-------------------------------------------------

Hi 2Pillars !

You are calling God's Word, a "church wild imagination ". I mean, did I not quote DIRECTLY FROM God's Word ? And did I not bring forth the Hebrew words to HELP YOU 2Pillars better understand ? Yes I did ! Your doctrine IS BAD [ Matthew 16:6 & Matthew 16:12 ] ! We all here are trying to help you understand The Word of The LORD, so the you can serve Him 'right'; Yet you continue to wrestle The Truth, and well.... just know and understand that you will loose in the end, because you are only hurting yourself by listening to Zacharia Stichin, and NOT God.

Proverbs 1:7
" The fear of The LORD is the beginning of knowledge; BUT FOOLS DEPISE WISDOM AND INSTRUCTION. "

Abiyah

2pillars

08-30-2006, 04:04 PM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " There is no such thing as Eight Day Creation in the Book of Genesis. That is only based on your church wild imagination. " END
-------------------------------------------------

Hi 2Pillars !

You are calling God's Word, a "church wild imagination ". I mean, did I not quote DIRECTLY FROM God's Word ? And did I not bring forth the Hebrew words to HELP YOU 2Pillars better understand ? Yes I did ! Your doctrine IS BAD [ Matthew 16:6 & Matthew 16:12 ] ! We all here are trying to help you understand The Word of The LORD, but you continue to wrestle with it, and well.... know and understand that you will loose in the end, because you are only hurting yourself by listening to Zacharia Stichin, and NOT God.

Proverbs 1:7
" The fear of The LORD is the beginning of knowledge; BUT FOOLS DEPISE WISDOM AND INSTRUCTION. " = Abiyah <<<

************************************************** ************************************
Abiyah,

Actually no! I am calling you delutional for trying to pervert the Scripture to suit your flawed doctrinal faith. :-)

Sorry

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 04:15 PM

Hello Everyone, Is it me or has 2Pillars recanted his statement of Man being created on the 5th day? His first post says 3rd day? And notice his above post. He's trying to evade all of the questions posed to him by adding another topic to his "discussion". Symrna is right. This guy has rocks in his head but he probably thinks they are moonstones and amulets! LOL Hey buddy, stop reading Fate Magazine in the shower. You got your pages stuck together. And by the way, unplug that blowdryer before you get yourself killed!

terluvire

08-30-2006, 04:37 PM

2 Pillars, you make the assumption that we believe that one day in creation is one 24 hour period. We see one day in creation as God states it:

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

We believe that each day of creation was equivilent to a 1000 yrs.

In Genesis chapter one, God created the plants and animals before the creation of mankind. In Genesis 2 God formed Adam and then formed animals. Genisis 1 and Genesis 2 are speaking of 2 different events. First God created mankind on the sixth day, on the seventh He rested. After that, then He FORMED Adam. It is my understanding along with others that this took place on the 8th day. 8 meaning "new beginnings". It would be a new beginning for through Adam would come Christ. If you are in Christ you have eternal life.

Abiyah brought forth the Hebrew words very well hoping to edify you.

Do you believe that our Creator, God, comes from another planet? And I might add, we are still waiting for your answer to Angie's question. Please be considerate and answer.

2pillars

08-30-2006, 05:05 PM

kimberlyfredrick>>>Hello Everyone, Is it me or has 2Pillars recanted his statement of Man being created on the 5th day? His first post says 3rd day? And notice his above post. He's trying to evade all of the questions posed to him by adding another topic to his "discussion". <<<

************************************************** ****************************

You should review all my post from the beginning. What you assume to be my position is only based on the malicious misrepresentation of smyrna.

Here's my position for the basis of argument.

1)Man (Adam) was physically made on the 3rd day.

2)Creatures including MANKIND were created on the 5th day.

3) Adam and Eve were CREATED in the image and likeness of God, SPIRITUALLY on the 6th day.

God wrote his entire CREATION from the beginning to the End before it is completed. God has but 7 days of Creation. Today is still his 6th day of creation. The 7th day has no end.

Therefore, there is no such thing as 8th day creation as SC doctrinal faith assumes!
That's is just a product of wild imagination of your church.

Sorry

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 05:15 PM

What is the difference of being physically made on the 3rd day and being created on the 5th day? Come on, your just funning us now!

terluvire

08-30-2006, 05:41 PM

2 Pillars, can you please answer the question posed to you.

Do you believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

And, Do you follow the Word of God from the ancient Hebrew and Greek Text? Or do you follow the ancient text of the Sumerians?

(Message edited by terluvire on August 30, 2006)

2pillars

08-30-2006, 06:29 PM

I already answered that question.

Read again....

To All SC Followers:

Here's where I stand to satisfy your curiosity.

Please be informed that I consider myself a "born again christian" and will only utilize the Holy Bible to prove your church doctrinal errors.

I repeat, I don't subscribe to heathen or in-house publication just like your church do. I only based my understanding from the Scripture.

Jesus is YHWH himself, the only begotten Son of the unknown (Name) invisible Almighty God Father -- of whom no man hath seen at any time.

Now, let's go back to the topic, do you all (SC follwers) support smyrna' assumption that those "fallen angels" have supernatural power to EVOLVED into human beings?

Thanks.

kimberlyfredrick

08-30-2006, 07:01 PM

Note To Everyone: When the record player is broken, turn off the record player. Otherwise, you just waste electricity and have to listen to "chicken scratch!"

terluvire

08-30-2006, 07:13 PM

2 Pillars said:
Now, let's go back to the topic, do you all (SC follwers) support smyrna' assumption that those "fallen angels" have supernatural power to EVOLVED into human beings?

None of us have ever stated that fallen angels evolved into humans...lol Sorry to disappoint you but it was never stated and that kind of teaching is clearly against God's word.

The fallen angels came here defacto. They don't need a flesh body, they have their own body which is supernatural. Or do you think that the supernatural body does not have substance?

Now may I ask you, Do you believe God revealed His Holy Word to the Hebrews or to the Sumerians?

2pillars

08-30-2006, 07:30 PM

teluvire,

I am very much aware of your church' wild imagination, however, do you have Scripture to support your doctrinal assumption that "fallen angels have supernatural body" that is why they were able to mate with the daughters of man.

I don't need your made up story but Scripture please...

Thanks

BTW, God reveals his His Holy Words to everybody wspwcially to those who are born again spiritually in his image and likeness.

Perhaps, if you quit blaspheming his Words, He will let you understand a little more.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on August 30, 2006)

watchman_2

08-31-2006, 02:02 AM

2pillars,

The mating of angels and women has nothing to do with macroevolution. It is not necessary for angels to evolve into any other form than that which God created them in [see Gen. 1:1]. Mankind is made in the image [physically] of the angels. So, physically, it would possible for the male-formed angels [with penis just like man] to mate with flesh woman.

The others provided you with ample scriptural evidence to support the notion that angels do have bodies. Of course, angels natural home [place of habitation] is in a different dimension than what we observe in the flesh. At God's direction, angels are allowed to present themselves in our dimension.

You should really study II Pet. 3. The 3 earth and heaven ages are described. This helps explain Gen. 1 and 2. The flesh man that we know today is unique to this second earth age. Our spiritual bodies [angels placed in flesh man] were in existence in the first earth age, when God created the heavens and the earth [Gen. 1:1].

terluvire

08-31-2006, 02:13 AM

Hi Watchman,

You know, we showed 2 Pillars those verses and well...what can I say, 2 Pillars completely ignores them.

2 Pillars you have completely twisted my question around. Again I will ask and I will word it differently so that you may not be confused:

Now may I ask you, Do you believe God revealed His Holy [written] Word to the Hebrews or to the Sumerians? Which ancient text do you believe are the credible ones, the Hebrew or the Sumerian?

I'm sure you know what I am asking, don't dodge the question.

ezekiel_37

08-31-2006, 06:22 AM

Genesis 2

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 

Your contention is that God tells us the word RAIN and in the same sentence decides to use the condensation or mist to also mean RAIN. Condensation or morning dew or mist is not RAIN.

Your logic is totally flawed here.

You have used YHWH as the name of God. How did you come to this understanding. Did you learn this from the bible only?

And please put to rest your theory that our understanding is that fallen angels evolved into humans. We have never said that and I know absolutely know SC student that believes that.

The fallen angels mated with human females and produced giants, a people that was destroyed in the flood of Noah's time. The fallen angels came back, did the deed again and had more offspring called giants. The sword of Israel comes out to wipe them out again.

The fallen angels probably wouldn't even need sexual organs to reproduce with human females. DNA in this age would suggest that.

So, please stop saying that we believe that humans came from the fallen angels. That is false.

in His service
c

abiyah

08-31-2006, 11:06 AM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Here's my position for the basis of argument.

1)Man (Adam) was physically made on the 3rd day.

2)Creatures including MANKIND were created on the 5th day.

3) Adam and Eve were CREATED in the image and likeness of God, SPIRITUALLY on the 6th day. "
-------------------------------------------------

Good Morning 2Pillars & ALL !

2Pillars... can you not SEE how that you have been taught and believe CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD ? Do you not SEE that ? Everything that you have written in your above stated quote is NOT God's Word. Which is very, very dangerous. NOTHING that you have stated in your above quote can be documented with God's Word... Do you HEAR what I'm trying to tell you ? Your understanding of the creation DOES NOT, I REPEAT, DOES NOT ALIGN WITH THE WORD OF THE LORD. And then you SHARE your lack of understanding with others. And when you go forth to share these things which ARE lies, you become a wolve in sheeps clothing, and you are a false christ-man. Do you NOT SEE that ??

Where did you read or find all the things you have quoted above, because I KNOW for a FACT its not FROM God's Word ? Who taught you this ? They're a LIAR ! Its NOT of God's Word 2Pillars ! So what little kenite scribe wrote this down, that you believe it as truth ?

God's Word or mans word ? Which one is it gonna be? Choose ! No since of dicussing God's Word with you anymore at this point.. WHY ? Because you do NOT believe The Word of God, and you CHANGE The Word of God, that is what you have done with your above stated quote..... do you NOT get that ? DANGEROUS ! There is far more to what you put forth here than just simple lack of understanding... you LITERALLY change The Word of God, for example..... anyone can look in their Bible and SEE that NO MAN, NOT ONE HUMAN, was created on the 3rd day, or the 5th day, and you do more than just err in my opinion, you CHANGE God's Word, and that my friend is a very dangerous thing to do ! READ YOUR BIBLE ! AND YOU LEARN ! Then come back when you are ready to serve The LORD your God, bringing forth the GOOD FRUIT, which is OF our Father's Word ! But right now your fruit is BAD, and can NOT be eaten !!!!!!!!!!!! You have some truth, but its that part which IS NOT TRUE that makes all of what you teach a LIE, therefore you are a LIAR ! This is more than you just not understanding God's Word !!!!!!! And you set me off with righteous indignation with your false doctrine shyt ! You remind me of that old serpent, switching Truth around and MAKING IT A LIE, and when you do that you mislead God's children. STOP !

Abiyah

watchman_2

08-31-2006, 12:39 PM

abiyah,

I didn't know that you had it in you [false doctrine shyt]! You always demonstrate such patience with these people.

I loved reading your post. God Bless!

david_munson

08-31-2006, 01:31 PM

2pillars wrote,"I agree, there were Three Angels being manifested in one of her cited text, however, they were the temporary manifestation of the Truine of God, himself."
--
Scripture please.
You are in error on this one.
I don't know who taught you this but you had better look into it yourself since they are way off.
The temporary manifestation of the triune God?
Not a chance 2pillars.
That theology is erronious at best.
1.no man has seen God.
2.the Holy Spirit as one member of the trinity is not in a physical form and it doesn't say He is or ever was anywhere in scripture.
3.It says angels(plural)so it must be taken at face value since there is no alagory to devirt from it's literal context and God the Father is never mentioned as an angel.

TRY AGAIN!

Dave

}

david_munson

08-31-2006, 01:31 PM

2pillars

08-31-2006, 01:49 PM

Dear Abiyah and Others,

Since you been putting together scriptural text to form your unfounded opinion about my belief, let me return the favor by expressing how I look at you and your church founders doctrinal view...

Here it is, dedicated to SC strong believers...

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. v22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,." Romans 1:21-22

"Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." 1 Timothy 1:7

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion , that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:11

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; v4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." II Timothy 4:3-4

It fits you and others alright, therefore, please let me know if you like it..http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Thanks

david_munson

08-31-2006, 02:01 PM

2pillars,
that still belabors the point that your theology is flawed.

I could abuse scripture and twist it around to fit anything I choose with proof texting but that wouldn't be the truth now would it?

You are not preaching/teaching truth but error.
Your resort to such misplaced verses is evident of your inability to distinguish truth from error.I see this all the time.

Proven wrong you quote condemnation to bolster your position or attempt to cause fear.It will not work.
You must show through the correct context that what you are preaching/teaching is factual.
You have failed to do so.

If you are sincere,these folks will engage you in disputed doctrines.If you are just being an arse you'll only embarrass yourself and no progress will be possible.

Your ball.

Dave
}

terluvire

08-31-2006, 03:50 PM

Abiyah,

Awesome post!!! I couldn't have said it better!!!

Hi David,
Quote:
If you are sincere,these folks will engage you in disputed doctrines.If you are just being an arse you'll only embarrass yourself and no progress will be possible.

You are correct. I don't mind discussing Scripture but what 2 Pillars is doing is straight from satan. He is the father of lies and confusion and what 2 Pillars bring to the table is confusion and lies! I truly believe that 2 Pillars follow the Sumerian text which show be a red flag to most.

abiyah

08-31-2006, 04:02 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifAnd God Bless you to Watchman and Terluvire; We truly, truly are blessed to have this most beautuful Treasure, which is God's Truth.

Agape,

Abiyah

2pillars

08-31-2006, 04:20 PM

terluvire / Abiyah:

You falsely assume that your way is better than God's. There are Christians and Tares in every denomination. Christians are those who have been born Spiritually. The rest are phonies

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:1

BTW, God hides nothing from "babes".

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Mat 11:25

God has hid the Truth from Godless Evols, Godless Scientists, Christian pretenders like you and other reprobates, who Think they know more than His way.

His Word is Truth to those who know Him.

abiyah

08-31-2006, 04:54 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/new.gif Here is what any Christian must be aware of when listening to this one named 2Pillars, who preaches the teachings of Zacharia Stichin, a FALSE teacher of God's Word, and 2Pillars also in turn shares these teachings, falsely teaching God's Word with interpretations which proceed out of their own hearts. 2Pillars quotes Scripture, than says something totally other than what our Father truly meant. Therefore, Take heed unto yourselves, for indeed he desires to lead you away from God's Truth.

Matthew 7:15
" Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. "

Abiyah

kimberlyfredrick

08-31-2006, 05:05 PM

2Pillars, It is you which is teaching fables. Your view of the cast of characters of Genisis is right out of Mythology which is PAGAN!

terluvire

08-31-2006, 05:29 PM

How can anyone take seriosly the teachings from the Sumerian/Babylonian text?

Babylon is smybolic for confusion.

Gen 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, {in the land of Shinar.}
Shinar in the Hebrew:
shinar
shin-awr'
Probably of foreign derivation; Shinar, a plain in Babylon: - Shinar.

Gen 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
Skip down to verse 9:

Gen 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Babel in the Hebrew:
babel
baw-bel'
From H1101; confusion; Babel (that is, Babylon), including Babylonia and the Babylonian empire: - Babel, Babylon.

Babylon from Wikipedia:
Babylon is the Greek variant of Akkadian Babilu (b&#257;b-ilû, meaning "Gateway of the god", translating Sumerian Kadingirra)

Yeah it was the gateway of the god alright, false gods is more appropriate.

They dwelt in shinar which is Babylon! God is showing clearly that Babylon is confusion. Who is the father of confusion? It is satan himself and his offspriing. They spew false teachings and abominations. 2 Pillars teachings come from the Sumerian/Babylonian texts!!! Who in their right mind would listen to those teachings????

God wants us to come out of confusion. Babylon's day of judgment is coming and how happy we will be to have the lies and confusion done away with!
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

2pillars

08-31-2006, 06:30 PM

BACK TO THE TOPIC: http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

2pillars wrote,"I agree, there were Three Angels being manifested in one of her cited text, however, they were the temporary manifestation of the Truine of God, himself."
-----------------------------

david_munson wrote:
<<<Scripture please.
You are in error on this one.
I don't know who taught you this but you had better look into it yourself since they are way off.
The temporary manifestation of the triune God?
Not a chance 2pillars.
That theology is erronious at best.
1.no man has seen God.
2.the Holy Spirit as one member of the trinity is not in a physical form and it doesn't say He is or ever was anywhere in scripture.
3.It says angels(plural)so it must be taken at face value since there is no alagory to devirt from it's literal context and God the Father is never mentioned as an angel.>>>>

************************************************** ******************************
Dear david_munson

As I have said, those three Angels were not just ordinary angels and most certainly NOT the "fallen angels" that is in the issue at hand.

You should pray for more understanding simply because you understanding of the Scripture is very poor.

Let us now look at the text pertaining to those Angels manifesting themselves the Triune of God as one (echad) mentioned in Genesis 19. Let us read Genesis 19:22-24 and see if you can count. Hint, I mark them for your convenience.

Genesis 19:22-24
Haste thee, escape thither; for I (1) cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. Then the LORD (2) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (3) out of heaven.

See, they were described as Lord/Angels in the Scripture BUT not ordinary angels, correct??

Of course, no man hath seen the invisible Almighty God Father at anytime NOR his name been revealed to anyone. Those who assume to know his name only demonstrate their ignorance of the Scripture.

TRY AGAIN?

kimberlyfredrick

08-31-2006, 07:17 PM

WHATHEF???

2pillars

08-31-2006, 08:18 PM

kimberlyfredrick wrote: <<<whathef???>>>

************************************************** *********************************
Dear kimberlyfredrick,

Jesus said:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Mat 23:27

Tell us of your relationship with Jesus. Those who have Not been born Spiritually CANNOT understand that which is Spiritual.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

kimberlyfredrick

08-31-2006, 10:42 PM

What I cannot understand is why your post( above mine which you quoted from) spoke of Angels, yet you scriptural documentation said NOTHING of the angels in which you were referring to.(or did you not notice AGAIN)

2pillars

09-01-2006, 04:02 PM

Well, if you read the entire chapters of Genesis 18&19, then you will realize that those Angels/Lords who appeared unto Abraham and Lot were the same Angles/Lords I cited in Genesis 19:22-24 manifesting the Triune of God as One (echad).

Hello ((((((( http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif..... Can you hear me now?

angie0401

09-01-2006, 04:27 PM

2pillars
 those Angels/Lords who appeared unto Abraham and Lot were the same Angles/Lords I cited in Genesis 19:22-24 manifesting the Triune of God as One (echad).

That sounds like your flawed theory/speculation. You should try rightly dividing the Word and reading the Word without preconceived ideas. Using the Word of God as a weapon and to prove flawed theories is just wrong and you should repent.

Try again??

terluvire

09-01-2006, 04:48 PM

Angie,

I agree! And I love your ending comment....

Try again?

2pillars

09-01-2006, 05:49 PM

I am still waiting for just one SC follower that can show us Scripturally how these "fallen angels" were able to evolve into human being with their allege "supernatural power", according to SC doctrinal faith.

I don't need another fairy tales story but Scripture please....

Hello ((((((( ..... Can you hear me now?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

angie0401

09-01-2006, 06:06 PM

Hello?
2pillars, are you there? We can't show Scripturally that fallen angels evolved into human beings because WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY DID.

Evolution of any species into another species is just not true and not Scriptural.

Can YOU provide Scriptural evidence that Noah was from another planet? I mean from the Holy Bible, not the pagan Sumerian text?

Thanks in advance for your attempt.

terluvire

09-01-2006, 06:25 PM

LOL That is too funny!!! Angels evolving into humans??? Where would 2Pillars get such a crazy idea that is what we think?????? Their reading comprehension needs to be upgraded...lol

I guess they think angels cannot appear as themselves, That angels are invisible, floating wisps, without form. I would rather believe the bible's description of angels than hollywood's.

Yes Angie, I would also like Scriputal proof, (not pagan Sumerian text), that angels do not have bodies and that Noah came from another planet.

Can 2Pillars do it?

2pillars

09-01-2006, 06:58 PM

IOW, no SC follower here can prove Scripturally their doctrinal assumption about this allege "supernatural power of these fallen angels" being able acquire supernatural body - mated with HUMANS and produced offspring, correct?

tsk.... tsk.... tsk.... so sad, indeed.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

kimberlyfredrick

09-01-2006, 07:29 PM

Dude... You have asked that question and it has been answered more than once. Once again you dodged a question by ASKING a question. LOL

kimberlyfredrick

09-01-2006, 07:44 PM

Hey Dude...Fate magazine called...They want their subscription back!

angie0401

09-01-2006, 07:56 PM

You didn't ask for Scriptural proof of THAT - you asked for proof that the angels "evolved", which we don't believe.

Gen 19 plainly shows that Lot, as well as the people of Sodom, did not think that it was the "Triune God" that was visiting them, just angels.

YOU need to provide Scriptural proof that the 3 angels in Gen 18 & 19 were the "Triune God". I've yet to find that supposition proposed by anyone but YOU.

I'll ask again:

Do you believe in the Holy Bible or the Sumerian text?
Do you believe in the One True God? The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob?
Can YOU provide Scriptural evidence that Noah was from another planet? I mean from the Holy Bible, not the pagan Sumerian text?

If you can't provide Scriptural evidence - not supposition and theory - then you need to ask yourself why.

2pillars

09-01-2006, 09:55 PM

Seriously, do you guys (SC followers)have any Apologist here to defend your faith which seems to be founded on a shaky ground?

Does anybody here really have the guts to stand up and defend your faith based on the Scripture?

My request is very simple and based on your religious assumption...

Again, for the NTH times...

I am still waiting for just one SC follower that can show us SCRIPTURALLY how these "fallen angels" were able to evolve/became/turn into human being with their allege "supernatural power", according to SC doctrinal faith.

I don't need another fairy tales story but Scripture please....

Hello ((((((( ..... Can you hear me now?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

2pillars

09-01-2006, 09:58 PM

watchman_2

09-02-2006, 02:36 AM

2pillars,

Your continued chiding is quite childish. Now, you may not like or believe the answer; but, it has been provided to you many times. ANGELS DON'T EVOLVE. ANGELS DON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY PHYSICAL CHANGE TO IMPREGNATE WOMEN.

All you have to do to verify this simple truth is do your homework on Gen. 1:26-27. Mankind was created in the image/likeness of God and the ANGELS. The reason angels are described as looking like young men in the Bible is because mankind was created in their image.

ezekiel_37

09-02-2006, 02:56 AM

2pillars, Here is honesty.

what is the problem? Your tone is nasty. Try kindness.

We told you already.

Fallen angels are the sons of God. You can accept that or refute it. That is your choice. Never the less, these facts cannot be overlooked, whatever you consider angels to be.

Angels, be it fallen or not, are angels. The angels in the bible all have bodies and look just like you and me. In many peoples opinions, there is no special ability needed by them to breed with humans.

The angels in visions and dreams had bodies. The angels that visited the earth in Gen 18-19 had bodies.

God (plural) said to make mankind in Gods(plural) image.

The Strong's concordance allows anyone to understand that the plurality of God "Elohiym" means God and His creation....his angels.

Mankind was made in the image of the angels. We have the same image. Same parts, same looks, same physical appearance as Christ and all of the angels that have been in the Word.

Therefor, no extra shapeshifting nor growing bodies and parts is needed.

We that study with the Shepherd's Chapel understand that God took something from Adam and produced the female version of mankind. God took his rib....and we can all understand (via the Strong's concordance) that the word translated rib is simple.....curve.

This to me suggests dna....and we know what is possible with dna manipulation. I am not saying this is how it happened, but God did tell us these things, and I betcha He had a reason.

Conclusion. The angels of the bible are physical (not flesh and blood but physical) as they ate and touched and talked and were sexually accosted.

We know that man and angels are not that different because humans can live off of manna, which as you know is angel food. And, also as you know, angels ate with Lot proving again that angels are not different as you seem to believe.

You contend that the sons of God are a lower form of life, not able to be non evil.

We contend that the sons of God are fallen angels, quite able to reproduce with human females.

You know, your understanding and ours has some similarity, not enough in my opinion to make me change my understanding to yours, but some none the less.

in His service
c

abiyah

09-02-2006, 04:00 AM

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Seriously, do you guys (SC followers)have any Apologist here to defend your faith which seems to be founded on a shaky ground?" END
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifNOT SO ! For indeed, those in whom you refer to as "sc followers", are surely followers of JESUS CHRIST, The Lord. Therefore, it would be impossible for us to stand on 'shaky ground', for indeed we stand upon THE ROCK, which can NOT BE SHAKEN.

Psalm 18:12
" The LORD is my Rock, and my Fortress, and my Deliverer; my God, my Strength, in whom I will Trust; my Buckler, and the horn of my Salvation, and my High Tower. "

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " Does anybody here really have the guts to stand up and defend your faith based on the Scripture? " END QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif We have already done so, and you know this. Our Faith IS IN God. For we have certainly addressed most of your false doctrines/interpretations with The Truth, that being The Word of God. Its very simple for anyone to scroll back through these threads and to see that's the truth, and that you do lie.

I John 2:4
" He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth NOT His commandments, IS A LIAR, and The Truth is NOT in him. "

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " I am still waiting for just one SC follower that can show us SCRIPTURALLY how these "fallen angels" were able to evolve/became/turn into human being with their allege "supernatural power", according to SC doctrinal faith. "
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif We have never said that the fallen angels/the sons of God, evolved into anything, so again, you do lie. We do not believe in evolution of mankind, nor of any angels. 

2Pillars WROTE:
-------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: " I don't need another fairy tales story but Scripture please....

Hello ((((((( ..... Can you hear me now? " END
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif I pray I will not have to listen to you for too much longer. However, we all have done as Christ our Lord has commanded us to do, and we have SHARED The Light of Truth with you, that being The Scriptures; Yet you believe it not ! And you do change The Word of God with many false interpretations that you have regarding God's Word. Which IS a dangerous thing for you to do, very dangerous !

Abiyah

david_munson

09-02-2006, 03:07 PM

OK now, a little discernment here and we will clear this up quickly.
---
2pillars,"I am still waiting for just one SC follower that can show us SCRIPTURALLY how these "fallen angels" were able to evolve/became/turn into human being with their allege "supernatural power", according to SC doctrinal faith."
---
No,
you are not waiting for this that you claim because you refuse to acknowledge what the Sc students have provided you with.
They do not subscribe to the false doctrine of angelic evolution and they have told you many times on this thread.

You have a serious problem with correct Biblical interpretation.
I don't know where you are getting your information but it most certainly is not the Word of God.

Friend,
you need to be Spirit taught and stop adding/twisting/assuming incorrectly what scripture plainly teaches.

You also need to read the responses to your posts instead of ignoring what is told you and continuing to make assumptions that have been put to rest by the folks here who have engaged you in honest debate.

Admit it,you don't care about the answers.You just want to harp on a subject that has nothing to do with the Sc'ers beliefs.
That my friend is not Christ-like.
You embarrass me.

Dave
}

plow_deep

09-02-2006, 06:36 PM

Howdy Folks,

Dave said:
"You have a serious problem with correct Biblical interpretation.
I don't know where you are getting your information but it most certainly is not the Word of God."

"Friend,
you need to be Spirit taught and stop adding/twisting/assuming incorrectly what scripture plainly teaches."

2pillars from another thread:

Answer: As I have said repeatedly, I get my teaching from the Holy Bible only. I have no outside influence except it be the Spirit of Truth.

I too study in solitude and rely on the Lord for guidance. I also use the internet and check out what my fellow followers of the Lord Jesus Christ have to say. The Good book tells me this is something I should do. Private interpretation can get you in trouble and you should always test those spirits.

Ive learned a little something from most all that post here, (you too Dave) and it usually comes when unlooked for. Fellowship is a good thing and I'm grateful to the Good Lord for the internet, for without it, exchanging ideas and thoughts about scripture wouldnt be nearly as easy or fulfilling.

Do I agree with everything? Nope. But than God reveals what He chooses to each of us on an individual basis, and not everyone will see everything eye to eye. The more I learn, the more I realise this.

There is a positive (God) and a negative (satan) for everything in the Word, and usually more examples then just one. I catch on to a little more all the time.

Peace

terluvire

09-03-2006, 02:15 PM

Hi Dave,

I want to thank you. Even though you don't agree with us, you also know what we do believe and what 2Pillars is saying about our belief's is not accurate. And what 2Pillars is saying about our Father's Word is not biblical!!! Thank you Dave for standing with us against the vile 2Pillars has brought here.

You said:
Admit it,you don't care about the answers.You just want to harp on a subject that has nothing to do with the Sc'ers beliefs.

I believe this also. If 2Pillars only wants to discuss "their" religion, let them start their own thread elsewhere instead of bringing it here where it is not going to be recieved.

Peace

terluvire

09-03-2006, 02:19 PM

Hi Abiyah,

You said:
I pray I will not have to listen to you for too much longer. However, we all have done as Christ our Lord has commanded us to do, and we have SHARED The Light of Truth with you, that being The Scriptures; Yet you believe it not ! And you do change The Word of God with many false interpretations that you have regarding God's Word. Which IS a dangerous thing for you to do, very dangerous !

Very well said!

terluvire

09-03-2006, 02:35 PM

Good day Plow Deep,

I always enjoy reading your posts. There is a calmness, maturity, and an unshakeness which comes through in your posts. Those who stand on the true rock have a firm foundation, one that cannot be shaken.

You said:
I too study in solitude and rely on the Lord for guidance. I also use the internet and check out what my fellow followers of the Lord Jesus Christ have to say. The Good book tells me this is something I should do. Private interpretation can get you in trouble and you should always test those spirits.

Very well said.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

abiyah

09-03-2006, 05:36 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif Hi There Terluvire !

: ) I enjoyed your three most recent above posts, you are certainly a kind-hearted, loving Christian. I also really loved The Scriptures you quoted here in the post just above this one..... Thank you ! : )

Agape,

Abiyah

plow_deep

09-04-2006, 11:30 AM

Thanks Terluvire,

I always enjoy your posts too. I agree with Abiyah, you are indeed kind-hearted. Your comments are too kind, personally, I feel like a babe lost in the woods at times...not all the time though, and not on all the subjects discussed, but many still.

Dont want to leave you out Abiyah, your posts are usually gentle and sometimes they are sooo sweet that I feel I could get cavities just from reading them.

Peace

terluvire

09-04-2006, 01:21 PM

Good Morning Plow Deep,

Thank you for your kind words. Most of the time I try to be considerate here but there are a few here which can hit a nerve with me....lol I'm sure you know which ones...lol

I truly am impressed with how much research you have done on your own. It warms my heart to see someone who truly wants to see for themselves what our Father says.

There are times I too feel like a babe. The more you study God's word, the more you realize you don't know everything. The topics which I have studied much, such as the ones discussed here, I will chime in. But those topics which I haven't studied in depth...well I will not say a word...lol

We are all sudents of the Word and we are all at different levels of our understanding. Learning from one another, through God's Word and His Holy Spirit, is a wonderful thing. I am thankful for everyone here.

I agree, Abiyah posts are usually very gentle. That is her true nature. She is a wonderful servant of the Lord and she is a wonderful friend. I am very blessed to have met her.

kimberlyfredrick

09-05-2006, 02:12 PM

Awesome job to everyone here for defending our Father's word. It appears that truth has once again stood the test of time(2Pillars is gone!) I just loved the way everyone put their differences aside to join the common good of setting 2Pillars straight. In all honesty, I have much doubt to the validity of that 2Pillars. I really think he/she came here to see just how much we would dance for them. I don't believe for one minute that that 2Pillars believed what they were selling. Just some sick prankster wanting to ruffle the feathers of a few christians for kicks. What a shame 2Pillars is.

2pillars

09-05-2006, 03:22 PM

Sorry to disapoint you Kimberly, but I just took off for the Holidays. Don't you have life? Next time, do not open your mouth too early.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

2pillars

09-05-2006, 03:31 PM

2pillars

09-05-2006, 04:21 PM

Dear Die Hard SC Followers:

Based on your doctrinal faith...

IF you think the transformation of those "fallen angels" (without flesh and bones) into "human beings" - with sex organ for reproduction - is not "MACRO-EVOLUTION", then, can somebody please described what it is -- in simple English or scientific terminology?
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

angie0401

09-05-2006, 06:08 PM

QUOTE:
-->IF you think the transformation of those "fallen angels" (without flesh and bones) into "human beings" - with sex organ for reproduction - is not "MACRO-EVOLUTION", then, can somebody please described what it is -- in simple English or scientific terminology? <--


OH OH. I know!

God's Creation

Can you hear me now? :-)

2pillars

09-05-2006, 06:42 PM

But God's creation are confined to their/His KINDS why are you contradicting his Holy Words?

Are you trying to say, God allows transformation of an existing creature into another Kind of creature?

Are you serious or do you want to TRY AGAIN?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

angie0401

09-05-2006, 06:54 PM

Angels weren't transformed into human beings; they were made with substance, just not the same "flesh and bones" as humans.

God's creation was COMMANDED to stay in their own habitations (as we are commanded to do lots of things that we ignore as well), but they disobeyed.

You know this and are just trying to cause trouble.

My question for you is why do you come to the SC threads for this? Do you also go to the evolution threads, the JW threads, the atheist thread, etc? Or are we the only ones blessed with your presence?

2pillars

09-05-2006, 07:02 PM

I'm well aware of the SC' wild imagination based on what I considered to be distorted belief.

Those "fallen angels" who left their inhabitation has nothing to do with the "son of God" (prehistoric being)who formed a union with the daughters of man. Genesis 6

But if you insist, we need Scripture - to back up your faith which I believe based on delusion, seriously.

TRY AGAIN FOR THE NTH TIMES? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Thanks.

PS. Of course not -- I have dealth with those you mentioned above, in the past and will be dealing with them again in the future.

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 05, 2006)

angie0401

09-05-2006, 07:49 PM

Those "fallen angels" who left their inhabitation has nothing to do with the "son of God" (prehistoric being)who formed a union with the daughters of man. Genesis 6 

The sons of God were "cavemen"??? PAH LEEZE. That's just your incorrect interpretation.

What I've gathered from the "flood" you've been spewing out of your mouth (via your fingers) is that:
Noah was a spaceman who built an ark that was suddenly transported to the top of the mountain to wait until the waters here (not the waters from his "home planet") subsided.
Then the cavemen (sons of God) mated with the descendants of Noah.
Even though the Bible speaks of angels that eat human food (and angel food that humans eat), they must not "really" have bodies.
The angels that visited Sodom and Gomorrah were 2/3 of the "Triune God", not really angels like the Bible says.
All other instances of angels (not THE Angel of the Lord), must just be something else.
Angels aren't any different from us, except they are different from us, but they can't have any different abilities, right?

But we're the ones with "wild imaginations"? Your flawed interpretations sound like a cross between Smallville and Planet of the Apes....

How do you keep all that craziness straight in your head? Our God is not a God of confusion, but the one you are trying to sell surely is. May the one TRUE God have mercy on your soul, for you most surely need it, I fear

angie0401

09-05-2006, 07:54 PM

2pillars

09-05-2006, 08:50 PM

angie0401 wrote:

The sons of God were "cavemen"??? PAH LEEZE. That's just your incorrect interpretation.

What I've gathered from the "flood" you've been spewing out of your mouth (via your fingers) is that:
Noah was a spaceman who built an ark that was suddenly transported to the top of the mountain to wait until the waters here (not the waters from his "home planet") subsided.
Then the cavemen (sons of God) mated with the descendants of Noah.

************************************************** *******************************

That is your made up and lying story not mine. I never claimed that the sons of God were “cavemen” nor Noah was a "spaceman" but instead emphasized that Evols, scientist, and now Angie, referred to the sons of God as “caveman” and Noah as spaceman.

Most Christian pretenders like Angie turn things around.

If she cannot understand that the Rapture is physically leaving the present world, and going to another world, then she will just have to remain ignorant of how Noah left the world of Adam,and came to this present, lost and dying world. I am sorry that Angie cannot understand such a simple concept.

What a shame. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

2pillars

09-05-2006, 08:55 PM

BUMP! To All SC Believers,

Back to the issue for the nth times...

*****

Dear Die Hard SC Followers:

Based on your doctrinal faith...

IF you think the transformation of those "fallen angels" (without flesh and bones) into "human beings" - with sex organ for reproduction - is not "MACRO-EVOLUTION", then, can somebody please describe what it is -- in simple English or scientific terminology?

Hello (((((((( Can you hear me now? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 05, 2006)

angie0401

09-05-2006, 09:25 PM

QUOTE:
2pillars-->http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=336119#POST336119
When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event. 

The sons of God (Prehistoric Man) never wrote a book, nor built a city. Humans, Adam, was made on the 3rd Day and the sons of God were created from the water on the 5th Day. Pre-Noah Humans were from Adam, and the sons of God are referred to by Evols, as Caveman. 

Who's turning things around??

I'll revise my post to more accurately reflect what you said in this post.

The sons of God were "prehistoric men"??? PAH LEEZE. That's just your incorrect interpretation.

What I've gathered from the "flood" you've been spewing out of your mouth (via your fingers) is that:
Noah was a man from another planet who built an ark that was suddenly transported to the top of the mountain to wait until the waters here (not the waters from his "home planet") subsided.
Then the prehistoric men (sons of God) mated with the descendants of Noah.
Even though the Bible speaks of angels that eat human food (and angel food that humans eat), they must not "really" have bodies.
The angels that visited Sodom and Gomorrah were 2/3 of the "Triune God", not really angels like the Bible says.
All other instances of angels (not THE Angel of the Lord), must just be something else.
Angels aren't any different from us, except they are different from us, but they can't have any different abilities, right?

But we're the ones with "wild imaginations"? Your flawed interpretations sound like a cross between Smallville and Planet of the Apes....

How do you keep all that craziness straight in your head? Our God is not a God of confusion, but the one you are trying to sell surely is. May the one TRUE God have mercy on your soul, for you most surely need it, I fear.

For your viewing pleasure:

http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/prehistoric+man (http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/prehistoric+man)
prehistoric man - Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 :

44 Moby Thesaurus words for "prehistoric man":
Australanthropus, Australopithecus, Bronze Age man, Cro-Magnon man,
Galley Hill man, Gigantopithecus, Grimaldi man, Heidelberg man,
Hominidae, Iron Age man, Neanderthal man, Oreopithecus,
Paranthropus, Peking man, Pithecanthropus, Plesianthropus,
Rhodesian man, Sinanthropus, Stone Age man, Swanscombe man,
Zinjanthropus, aboriginal, aborigine, ancient, antediluvian,
anthropoid, ape-man, autochthon, bushman, cave dweller, caveman,
eolithic man, fossil man, hominid, humanoid, man of old,
missing link, neolithic man, preadamite, prehuman, primate,
primitive, protohuman, troglodyte

ezekiel_37

09-05-2006, 10:53 PM

ezekiel_37 wrote:
Conclusion. The angels of the bible are physical (not flesh and blood but physical) as they ate and touched and talked and were sexually accosted.

We know that man and angels are not that different because humans can live off of manna, which as you know is angel food. And, also as you know, angels ate with Lot proving again that angels are not different as you seem to believe.<<<

************************************************** ********************************
Dear ezekiel_37,

Are you saying that the Angels who appeared unto Abraham and Lot were 'fallen angles"?

No, I did not say that. I am explaining to you about what real angels are like in the Bible, our Father's Word to us. Do you disagree?

Your blasphemy doesn't agree with God's Holy Word, so you must pretend to know Jesus, that you might keep up the farce.

hahahahahahaha. Log in your eye son?

The fact that you Still don't recognize Jesus as the Creator, reveals that you have No idea that He is God.

What is your disfunction. Please document to me just where I said that or implied it? I did not, as all here (but u) can attest to.

Is Christ the creator? Yep, through Him all things were made. Is Christ God? Yep! Never have I said otherwise. Shame to you. Judgemental sottish child.

You have left out part of my post. Why?

The part you left out says....

Angels, be it fallen or not, are angels. The angels in the bible all have bodies and look just like you and me. In many peoples opinions, there is no special ability needed by them to breed with humans......

do you disagree? Shame on you.

The angels in visions and dreams had bodies. The angels that visited the earth in Gen 18-19 had bodies. 

Again, do you have a revelation that can denounce this fact? Not.

God (plural) said to make mankind in Gods(plural) image. 

Like it or not, this is what the definition for the word elohiym is. Accept or do not, that is your free will choice.

The Strong's concordance allows anyone to understand that the plurality of God "Elohiym" means God and His creation....his angels.

Mankind was made in the image of the angels. We have the same image. Same parts, same looks, same physical appearance as Christ and all of the angels that have been in the Word.

Therefor, no extra shapeshifting nor growing bodies and parts is needed. 

............

So, you lie by way of half truths and half posts.

Shame on you.

in His service
c

kimberlyfredrick

09-05-2006, 11:33 PM

yes, shame on you 2Pillars. How dare you come here claiming to preach God's word and preach filthy lies and half-truths. You have attacked all of the good people here who are trying to be good servants to our Lord. Everytime you post YOUR WORDS you do so with hate in your heart. Often people disagree here on matters of doctrine, but you have brought your own type of religion here. This forum is for discussing God's word from the Holy Bible and other Scripture/historical documentation. You do err and you do blashphamy. Shame on you and your prideful hate. You are an abomination!

kimberlyfredrick

09-05-2006, 11:45 PM

LOL Angie, you said, "Your flawed interpretations sound like a cross between Smallville and The Planet of the Apes" You nailed him right between the eyeshttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

plow_deep

09-06-2006, 01:20 AM

Greetings Folks,

Lets take a look at the sons of God, okay?

Genesis 1:26-27
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So we know God and the sons of God (angels) made man in our image AND after our likeness.

After our likeness...think about that.

Sons of God?...isnt Adam referred to as a son of God? Yes indeed! Adam was a "son of God" by creation. He alone of all men was directly created by the hand of God Himself in the garden of Eden for a special purpose. I hope you know what purpose that was.

Lets look at the book of Job.

Job 38:1-7
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Okay, that was a lot of scripture for that last line. I cant help it...I really like the book of Job.

Read on.

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Now we see the term "sons of God" refers to angels and not to human beings. Human beings, on the other hand, throughout the Old Testament Scriptures, are referred to as "sons of men" (see Psa.4:2; 31:19; 33:13; 57:4; 58:1; 145:12; Eccl.2:3, 8; 3:10, 18, 19; 8:11; 9:3,12, etc.).

Are there female angels? Thats a mystery to me.
In the bible I havent found any.
The bible shows them always in a masculine form.

cont...

plow_deep

09-06-2006, 01:24 AM

cont.

Genesis 18:4-8
And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

They were so masculine that the whole population (men and women) of Sodom wanted to have sex with them. Kinda makes you think of how young folks of today act on a large scale. Sex with male or female makes no difference to most. Homeschooling is a wise choice for Christians even though the U.N. is against Americans doing it.

An angel can manifest himself in all his God given glory or he can appear as a mere mortal (or not at all) depending on what he is sent to do. It is evident that angels can and do appear in the form of a normal everyday man as stated in:

Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

But can angels mate with women?

Matthew 22:29-30
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

So we know that righteous obedient angels of God dont marry. This scripture doesnt say anything about them being genderless as many assume.

He was not talking about the wicked, unrighteous angels who rebelled against God, the "fallen angels" of Satan, who left heaven to come to the earth.

If angels can appear in human form, and look just like a human being, in all respects, then it would seem a small thing that they would also be able to perform as a human being?

cont...

plow_deep

09-06-2006, 01:29 AM

cont.

Revelations 22:8-9
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Whoa! Did you catch that?

...and of thy brethren the prophets,...

Now if that isnt food for thought. It seems we are more closely related than many would think.

Genesis 6:1-5
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Men of renown...look up the word renown. Its not nearly as noble as it sounds. #8034 shem {shame}

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair....fair...troglodyte women or such?

Come on! Give me a break!

So yes, from the little bit (theres lots more) of evidence I present here, Its clear that the sons of God/angels...the wicked, unrighteous angels who rebelled against God, the "fallen angels" of Satan, who left heaven to come to the earth, took wives of the daughters of men.

No offence to you 2pillars, but you need to take a better look at your macro-evolution nonsense.

Its a label that doesnt fit here. No matter how much you want it too.

Peace

plow_deep

09-06-2006, 02:33 AM

Sorry Folks,

Whoa! Did you catch that?

...and of thy brethren the prophets,...

Nix that, I meant to correct that before posting.

...for I am thy fellow servant...

Was what I wanted to underline and highlight.

I didnt notice until I came back and read it.

I dont use the buttons for colors and underlining,
I do it manually...I'm gonna have to figure them out sooner or later, going back over and inserting colors and highlights are a hassle on long posts.

This will give you an idea at what I was driving at.

Matthew 18:29
And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Matthew 18:33
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Colossians 1:7
As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;

Colossians 4:7
All my state shall Tychicus declare unto you, who is a beloved brother, and a faithful minister and fellowservant in the Lord:

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:9
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Peace

terluvire

09-06-2006, 02:34 AM

Good Evening Ezekiel, Angie, Kimberly, and Plow Deep,

Angie I loved the planet of the apes comment....lololol

Plow, I am glad you posted those verses. I was thinking of doing the same thing. You did an awesome job! God bless you.

terluvire

09-06-2006, 02:41 AM

Hi Plow Deep,

I meant to include this in my other post but forgot.

I don't know if this was ever posted, so here is a link to the Companion Bible Appendixes. Though I do not agree with everything Bullinger says, he is still an awesome scholar.

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/list.html

plow_deep

09-06-2006, 03:02 AM

Greetings Terluvire,

Thanks

Point out any errors you see...not you 2pillars, I have a real problem with your your belief that sons of God = prehistoric man.
So any correction on your part is just a waste of time.

I noticed on the 3rd part of the post, when it went thru the message window widened.

Does anybody know what causes that?

Thanks

plow_deep

09-06-2006, 03:33 AM

Thanks Terluvire for the Companion Bible Appendixes link.

I really like his 'how to enjoy the bible' and several different tracts Ive read.
The 'significance in numbers' and 'witness of the stars' books were quite beyond me and uninteresting very quickly.

The link of yours is tough on me but manageable
If I click select all, I can see it all right.

I really detest and have a hard time reading a black background with white or red lettering. Usually when I run across a website formated like that, I waste no more than 2 seconds in exiting.

I probably miss a lot of good sites but I'll be darned if I'm gonna use a magnifying glass to read a monitor screen.

Peace

terluvire

09-06-2006, 04:06 AM

Hi Plow Deep,

Quote:
I noticed on the 3rd part of the post, when it went thru the message window widened.

Does anybody know what causes that?

I have no idea how that happens nor how to fix it...sorry..lol

I have an idea which might make reading the Appendixes a bit easier on your eyes. Click on a certain appendix and copy and paste the page onto Microsoft word. Hopefully that will make it easier to read.

Peace

2pillars

09-06-2006, 01:14 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

The "sons of God" being referred to in Genesis 6 were MANKIND (prehistoric beings) NOT "fallen angels" as SC followers would like you to believe - based on their wild imagination and pervertion of the Scripture above.

Genesis 1:21 tells us that every living creature that moveth was created from the water abundantly on Day 5. This included the creation of the "prehistoric" MANKIND and were blessed by God on the 5th day ref. Genesis 1:22 that why they are referred to in the Scripture as "sons of God" not "fallen angels".

Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust. Some people see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that God made a boo boo.

They (SC')are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally made every Living Creature that moved, from the water abundantly, on Day 5.

The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH or Jesus sqeezed, as a potter would mould clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground.

The creatures made from the dust were compatible to those made from the water, and could produce offspring with the creatures from the water.

Of course, again, the first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the rain. Gen 2:4-7 This gives Man Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.

Like the animals made from the dust, man also married and produced children with MANKIND made from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet.

We have the DNA of the sons of God (Prehistoric Mankind) also have the Human Intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, the first Human. Yes, we all descended with modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.

God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His Kind from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day.

Today's arrogant "SC followers" can't tell us the difference between those creatures made from the water, and those made from the dust.

They remain ignorant of God's Truth.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

angie0401

09-06-2006, 02:18 PM

2pillars,
I'm still waiting on your answer to these questions (among all the others that have been asked of you):

QUOTE:
2pillars-->http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=336119#POST336119
When the Ark was 22 feet above the water which destroyed the 1st Earth, Noah was brought to our Earth similar to the way Paul was to the 3rd heaven, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Civilization on this Planet, can be traced to this event.

The sons of God (Prehistoric Man) never wrote a book, nor built a city. Humans, Adam, was made on the 3rd Day and the sons of God were created from the water on the 5th Day. Pre-Noah Humans were from Adam, and the sons of God are referred to by Evols, as Caveman. 

Who's turning things around??

I'll revise my post to more accurately reflect what you said in this post.

The sons of God were "prehistoric men"??? PAH LEEZE. That's just your incorrect interpretation.

What I've gathered from the "flood" you've been spewing out of your mouth (via your fingers) is that:
Noah was a man from another planet who built an ark that was suddenly transported to the top of the mountain to wait until the waters here (not the waters from his "home planet") subsided.
Then the prehistoric men (sons of God) mated with the descendants of Noah.
Even though the Bible speaks of angels that eat human food (and angel food that humans eat), they must not "really" have bodies.
The angels that visited Sodom and Gomorrah were 2/3 of the "Triune God", not really angels like the Bible says.
All other instances of angels (not THE Angel of the Lord), must just be something else.
Angels aren't any different from us, except they are different from us, but they can't have any different abilities, right? 

But we're the ones with "wild imaginations"? Your flawed interpretations sound like a cross between Smallville and Planet of the Apes....

How do you keep all that craziness straight in your head? Our God is not a God of confusion, but the one you are trying to sell surely is. May the one TRUE God have mercy on your soul, for you most surely need it, I fear.

For your viewing pleasure:

http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/prehistoric+man (http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/prehistoric+man)
prehistoric man - Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 :

44 Moby Thesaurus words for "prehistoric man":
Australanthropus, Australopithecus, Bronze Age man, Cro-Magnon man,
Galley Hill man, Gigantopithecus, Grimaldi man, Heidelberg man,
Hominidae, Iron Age man, Neanderthal man, Oreopithecus,
Paranthropus, Peking man, Pithecanthropus, Plesianthropus,
Rhodesian man, Sinanthropus, Stone Age man, Swanscombe man,
Zinjanthropus, aboriginal, aborigine, ancient, antediluvian,
anthropoid, ape-man, autochthon, bushman, cave dweller, caveman,
eolithic man, fossil man, hominid, humanoid, man of old,
missing link, neolithic man, preadamite, prehuman, primate,
primitive, protohuman, troglodyte

angie0401

09-06-2006, 02:24 PM

This is what I gathered from your most recent post, as well:



--> Man was the first being made from the dust and he made on the 3rd day.
--> Every living creature that moveth, from the water (including "prehistoric" MANKIND) was created on the 5th day.
--> Jesus created man from the dust on the 6th day .
--> The man from the dust (3rd day or 6th day??) married and had children with mankind made from the water.
--> Noah and his sons came from another earth to this earth. (but when were THEY made?)
--> Noah's grandsons married the offspring of the union of the man from the dust and the mankind made from the water.

Ok, I revise my earlier statement. Your badly flawed, twisted theory is like a combination of Smallville (man from another planet comes to this earth), Planet of the Apes and the Twilight Zone (time and space have no meaning).

Angie-a follower of CHRIST, who studies with many fine teachers - including those of Shepherd's Chapel.

2pillars

09-06-2006, 03:20 PM

Angie wrote:
This is what I gathered from your most recent post, as well:

--> Man was the first being made from the dust and he made on the 3rd day.

CORRECT! MAN WAS PHYSICALLY FORMED ON THE 3RD DAY.

--> Every living creature that moveth, from the water (including "prehistoric" MANKIND) was created on the 5th day.

CORRECT! AND WERE BLESSED ON THE 5TH DAY AND WAS TOLD TO MULTIPLY.

--> Jesus created man from the dust on the 6th day .

WRONG!!! GOD (ELOHIM) GAVE MAN SPIRITUAL BIRTH BY BEING CREATED IN THEIR IMAGE AND LIKENESS ON THE 6TH DAY.

--> The man from the dust (3rd day or 6th day??) married and had children with mankind made from the water.

WRONG!!! THE DAUGHTERS OF MAN FORMED A UNION WITH MANKIND MADE FROM THE WATERS.

--> Noah and his sons came from another earth to this earth. (but when were THEY made?)

THEY WERE A DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF ADAM AND NOAH.

--> Noah's grandsons married the offspring of the union of the man from the dust and the mankind made from the water.

JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED ON THE 1ST EARTH, NOAH'S GRANDSON FORMED A UNION WITH THE DESCENDANTS OF MANKIND FORMED FROM THE WATERS. CORRECT.

Perhaps, Angie, example below may help you distinguish the difference between my usage of the words "Man" and "Mankind".

Allow me to give you another example based on your mental capacity.

There are many KINDS of breeds of pigeons, cattle, horses, dogs, etc., but they are all pigeons, cattle, horses, dogs, etc.

Things reproduce according to their kind, just like the Bible says (Genesis 1:11,12,21,24,25). They always have and they always will—while ever this world exists.

"Fallen angels" without flesh and bones are different KIND creatures compare to human. Therefore, SC wild imagination could not be true since both creatures are not compatible.

Now, Angie, tell us of your great knowledge. We have a few seconds. I promise not to laugh...too much.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

abiyah

09-06-2006, 04:15 PM

Proverbs 12:15
" The way of A FOOL is right in his OWN EYES; but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. "

angie0401

09-06-2006, 04:34 PM

QUOTE:
2pillars--> God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His Kind from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day. <--
2pillars --> WRONG!!! GOD (ELOHIM) GAVE MAN SPIRITUAL BIRTH BY BEING CREATED IN THEIR IMAGE AND LIKENESS ON THE 6TH DAY. <--
2pillars --> The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH or Jesus sqeezed, as a potter would mould clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground. <--

I don't think even YOU know what you believe (or claim to believe). You twist and turn and tie Scripture in knots trying to make it fit these crazy theories, but it just won't. You try to change Father's Word to suit what you believe, but it just doesn't work.

Here's my "great knowledge":

There is no Scripture to back up Noah coming from another planet; that there was a prehistoric mankind with no intelligence until Noah; that we are in the 6th day of creation; that the 3 angels at Sodom & Gomorrah were *really* the Triune God or any of the other off-the-wall, unBiblical babble you have posted here.

There is a flood of lies is spewing from your mouth and I truly feel sorry for you, but your (attempts) at insults are very ineffective and just plain childish. Sottish, sottish child you are!

angie0401

09-06-2006, 04:36 PM

2pillars

09-06-2006, 04:36 PM

Dear Abiyah,

I've given you God's Holy Word, but as a cultic SC follower, you cannot possibly believe, since you have excluded Him from your thinking.

I've also given you a dilemma which no SC follower can explain. Tell us How and When we became Human. God told us, and SC follower has succeeded in showing that God is a Liar, and you are included.

Todays Humans are the combination of Adam's descendants and the descendants of Prehistoric Mankind.

I am sorry for your Scriptural ignorance since it is clearly revealed in Gen 6.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 04:45 PM

No, 2Pillars, allow ME to give you another example based on YOUR mental capacity. Proverbs 29:23, "A man's pride(2Pillars) will bring him low, but the humble in spirit(Angie) will retain honour." Angie has demonstrated her great love for our Heavenly Father. It is you 2Pillars who enjoys laughing at God's sheep. "I promise not to laugh... too much" just further demonstrastes just who you really are and who you are not. you sound like a goat when you type 2Pillars. You'r not fooling anyone. Shame on you!

angie0401

09-06-2006, 04:58 PM

Thanks, kimberly, but I think the "humble in spirit" is better reserved for abiyah, terluvire, danispeachy and ezekiel.

I don't worry what someone thinks of my "mental capacity" - I was blonde for a couple of years, so I got accustomed to the dumb blonde remarks LOL! I worry much, much more what YHVH thinks of my "spiritual capacity".. :-)

abiyah

09-06-2006, 05:12 PM

Dear 2Pillars;

Listen.... you, having free-will have the right to believe as you so shall. We that follow The True Word of God have attempted to help you off the broad path [ Matthew 7:13 ] that you choose to walk; However, you seem to like it there, so then go, have at it... just simply go from here until your heart is truly ready to discuss God's Word. and not your own words, those words in which you speak from your own heart with regards to The Word. I kindly ask you to please leave us in peace at these Shepherd's Chapel threads, as I find your doctrine to be quit vile, and full of vanity. Perhaps you are on medication..... I know not, but God is fair and he knows your real intentions.

If you feel you must, perhaps you should go open and begin your own thread, although I suggest that no one go to it for wisdom of God's Word, for none shall be found, for what you say/teach with reagrds to The Father's Word is no laughing matter, you are a fake, claiming to be a follower of Christ, now whether you do this in ignorance, again..... I know not. One thing I do know is.... indeed you do change the Word of God and that IS A DANGEROUS thing to do ! I pray that no one ever take you seriously sir, for you will lead them AWAY from Truth.

Mark 9:42
" And whosoever shall offend [ offend= meaning to cause one to stumble; to cause one to fall away; to cause one displeasure at a thing; to make indignant ] one of these little ones that believe in Me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. "

Goodbye to you,

Abiyah

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 05:12 PM

Compared to 2Pillars, we are all "humble in spirit"...LOL! I have no doubt that YHVW is quite pleased with you Angie.

2pillars

09-06-2006, 05:24 PM

Dear Abiyah,

God says that both of you can see the invisible things of Him from the Creation of the World. I believe that both of you are just crowing and displaying the rebellious side of your disposition.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:18-20

You had better repent or He will give you over to a Reprobate mind.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

terluvire

09-06-2006, 05:30 PM

Bible 101 for 2Pillars:

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Oh lookie here....it was what day????? It was the sixth day!!! This is told by God himself!

And concerning Adam, the word AND is a polysendentant (sp?) it is a continuation in chronological order. The word "and" should make this clear. Watchman explained this very well in another thread. The formation of Adam is not, I repeat, is not a recap of Chapter 1. Gen.1 Animals THEN mankind. Gen.2 Man (ADAM), THEN animals.

Here is Noah's geneology:
Adam
Seth
Enos
Cainan
Mahalaleel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Lamech
Noah

These are all "begot", begotten, begat.

Begot in the Hebrew is:
yalad
yaw-lad'
A primitive root; to bear young; causatively to beget; medically to act as midwife; specifically to show lineage: - bear, beget, birth ([-day]), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail (-eth, -ing woman).

Looks like Noah was born just like the rest of us.

2Pillars seriously needs to read our Father's Word with understanding.

Angie, You are too kind. Actually we are all humble though with different styles. We know that all wisdom comes from God. No one can take credit of themselves for what they do know. We truly are thankful to our Father for giving us understanding of his Word. Without Him, we know nothing.

abiyah

09-06-2006, 05:33 PM

Like I said 2Pillars... please... Goodbye now. Go...

2pillars

09-06-2006, 05:55 PM

Dear terluvire,

Perhaps, you missed reading my post with regards to how to be created in the image and likeness of God, therefore let me try to bring you from darkness to light.

"Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see."

The Scripture document us that Jesus is the express image and likeness of God. IF you had seen him, you have seen the Father.

To be created in the image and likeness of God, is to be created in Christ, or be born spiritually.

"Let 'US' create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a Spiritual Being.

This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth.

However, when Jesus formed of Adam PHYSICALLY from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul (flesh) Gen. 2:7 – it was not spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made PHYSICALLY from his ribs NOR included the agreement of "US" to give Spiritual birth on that particular time.

Therefore, it would not harmonized or reconciled to Gen. 1:26 nor John 14:16-17.

Adam was physically FORMED/MADE on the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:7) and was Created spiritually in the image and likeness of God - together with Eve - on this present 6th Day (Gen.5:1-2; 1:27)

This is confirmed in Paul’s epistle,1Corinthians 15:46 refuting your SC flawed understanding.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

TRY AGAIN?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

angie0401

09-06-2006, 06:08 PM

So Jesus had to "squeeze us" to make us in His spiritual likeness? ROTFL

Or are you comparing Jesus to the beasts of the field, since you say He produced *His Kind* from the dust of the ground on the 6th day?

QUOTE:
2pillars--> God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His Kind from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day. <--
2pillars --> The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH or Jesus sqeezed, as a potter would mould clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground. <-- 

I'm going to take cover so I don't get hit by that lightening that's bound to be headed for 2pillars

angie<--{moves away quickly from computer}...

(Message edited by Angie0401 on September 06, 2006)

terluvire

09-06-2006, 06:13 PM

2Pillars,

You are a jackxxx. I posted God's own words. Are you saying God is wrong?????

You are vile and like Abiyah said......PLEASE LEAVE!!!!

Angie....lightning bolt....that was good....lololol

2pillars

09-06-2006, 06:20 PM

Dear angie0401,

That is your own made up story based on malicious edition of my post.

When are you going to tire of your LIES?

Either debate or run but don't waste our time projecting your own weaknesses and equivocation of your church.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

2pillars

09-06-2006, 06:28 PM

terluvire wrote:
You are a jackxxx. I posted God's own words. Are you saying God is wrong?????

************************************************** *********************
Of course not! I am saying your are abysmally IGNORANT of God's Words. You should just stick with mans wisdom, since your understanding of the Scripture is very poor. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

So, don't you try to twist thing around.

angie0401

09-06-2006, 06:41 PM

QUOTE:
2pillars-->Dear angie0401,

That is your own made up story based on malicious edition of my post.

When are you going to tire of your LIES?

Either debate or run but don't waste our time projecting your own weaknesses and equivocation of your church. <--

Now, now - don't get your undies in a bunch. All I did was cut and paste your EXACT posts, with only underlining and bold to emphasis that your flood of lies is coming out both sides of your mouth. If you have a problem with what you are posting, maybe you could get the moderators to remove your blasphemy.

If you want to see "malicious edition" of posts, do a search for the author "2pillars" on the SC thread. You'll find tons of excellent examples. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Can you hear me now? Or is the thunder too loud?? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

llm

09-06-2006, 06:43 PM

Roger Hathaway has an alternative interpetation from the lxx that is different from both views represented here. He sees Gen 1 as the blueprint in Gods mind, and Gen 2 as the actual materalization of the blueprint with Christ as the instrument of creation. This seems to make alot of sense. http://www.divinepageant.com/Greek%20Genesis.htm

2pillars

09-06-2006, 06:45 PM

Dear terluvire,

Read and learn...

Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. IN THE DAY (specific time of event) that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

IN THE DAY (very specific time of event) Adam and his generations were created in the image and likeness of God (Gen.1:27;5:1-3) both A&E have already committed their "original sin" and Cain had already killed Abel. The next generation to his image was Seth not Cain.

Therefore, how ignoramous could it be - for SC to believe that Adam was made on the eight day - do you have another terminology to descibe this biblical illiteracy of SC, by any chance???

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 06, 2006)

kimberlyfredrick

09-06-2006, 09:40 PM

WARNING: the above poster, 2Pillars beleives that Noah CAME from OuterSpace and that Cain married a woman whose ancestors originated from the water!....LOL...yet HE thinks that SC'ers Doctrines are faulty!!!....LOL....Everytime 2Pillars posts here I keep picturing him as a nerdy little man wearing a Star Trek costume with a flip-top cell phone calling out, "Can you here me now!!!!".......LOL....I have never laughed sooo hard as I do when I read his posts!...your killing me 2Pillars.....you'r the funniest little man!!!!LOL

ezekiel_37

09-06-2006, 09:44 PM

2pillars, if you wish to effectively teach, then you should learn how to communicate with more love and respect. Your message is so different that many are opposed to you before they get to know you.

Once one gets to know you, they want nothing to do with you, because of your demeanor.

We here have had our share of those opposed to our teachings and it is obvious that when one takes an aggressive-strong-I'm right/your wrong-scr*w you attitude, that there is no constructive learning going on.

Your style is very offensive. I am not discussing doctrine, just attitude. Even if I was interested, I doubt that I could converse with you because of that bad attitude.
Seriously dude, chill out, relax, take a pill(joke), whatever it takes,.

you can't teach with an attitude that drives people away.

in His service
c

2pillars

09-06-2006, 09:57 PM

Dear ezekiel_37,

After reviewing my last post, you have a very good point. Therefore, please accept my humble apology to everybody - for being carried away offensively.

I realize that what I post is controversial, but I also realize that it agrees not only with Scripture, but also with true Science, and History.

I do not write the things I write to cause others, problems, but I write to cause others to read and study Scripture, and to see that God's Word is the Truth in every way.

God Bless

2pillars

09-06-2006, 10:42 PM

ezekiel_37

09-07-2006, 01:06 AM

JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED ON THE 1ST EARTH, NOAH'S GRANDSON FORMED A UNION WITH THE DESCENDANTS OF MANKIND FORMED FROM THE WATERS. CORRECT.

wouldn't this be the same example of Macro evolution as you suggest....

by your own definition, this is macro evolution.

if Cain married another race on the other planet, or when Noah's grandson's(pure bread) married outside the Adamic line and into that prehistoric mankind race. They must be different....thus fall under the definition that you yourself produced for macro-evolution.

All that aside, I never claimed that the fallen angels are all the mentioned angels.

I said that angels are angels, and fallen or not they have the same abilities as us, when we can entertain one and not even know it.... and when they can eat our food and be sexually accosted.

So, if you will admit this fact, then we can continue.

Also, as plow deep has pointed out, the sons of God most definitely included Satan in the book of Job. What do you make of that anyway

Peace in Christ

in His service
c

angie0401

09-07-2006, 03:44 AM

Good post, zeke! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

terluvire

09-07-2006, 03:56 AM

Hi Ezekiel,

You always show so much patience.

I would like to apologize to 2Pillars for the jackxxx comment. It was not appropriate. Even though I disagree with 2P, I should have left that out.

ezekiel_37

09-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Dear ezekiel_37,

I believe Genesis 1 & 2 is very important in order to enjoy/make use of God's creations and comprehend how to be born again in the image and likeness of God, Spiritually.

In order to to accomplish this, one must call upon the name of the Lord (Gen. 2:26)and repent.

A&E thru the grace of God were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord - when they called upon the name of the Lord.(Gen.4:26;5:1-2).

As I have posted before, not everybody is created in the image and likeness of God unless, one is born again Spiritually in the image of Christ.

Your statement here holds much truth, but we contend that we(humans)were created in the image of God and the angels.

This image....God was made flesh in His own image....as Christ. Once you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father.

The angels were also made into there flesh representation of themselves, each becoming their own image, born once sometime in this age.

To be born again means to be born from above.

(I would like to say that I fully believe in a physical/spiritual experience-that which is probably known as being born again by fundimentalists-although the correct usage of born again as it is used in the Word of God is ...

born from above, (from the spiritual bodied soul....into the flesh soul) Still look alike, as Christ resembles the Father.

Most, certainly, Cain who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning was not an image or likeness of God.

Cain was in the image of the spiritual bodied Cain....but is now manifest in the flesh.

And "Today" is still the 6th day, the last day of Salvation - for tomorrow will be the 7th day when God Rested from ALL of his creations which he created and made - then it would be too late to be born again in the image and likeness of God.

I understand your contention. We would say that the end of (your) 6th day is the 7th Trump, Christ's arrival.

Truth be told, to my SC friends, we have had this brought up before as to the statement by God that He finished and then rested. I have always found that a little 'hard' to get fully.

Either the 'Forming' of Adam was not considered part of the creation as he is distinctly 'formed' and not created ..... or God is speaking of 'up till then', in a timeline so to speak .... or any one of numerous other self held theories/doctrine. Wierd but I'll get it all eventually.

1Corinthians 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (3rd day); the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (6th day).

46 Howbeit that was NOT first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual.

to me this speaks of the Resurrection, those alive at the 2nd coming (flesh) turned to spirit.
And the rest of the dead did not live again until the 1000 years(there already dead and are not flesh but spirit....2nd Resurrection...after the first.

ezekiel_37

09-07-2006, 10:05 AM

You also failed to understand that all creatures are confined to their/his KIND in order to produce
offsprings. This is very important as well because it is one of the commandment of God, in the beginning.

God commands this, but man does not always listen to God. God commands us not to murder, steal, worship other God's, commit adultery etc, but we do, some every day. As I stated earlier, your own definition of different planet people's offspring mating with each other would in my opinion break this rule. The fallen angels were not born into the flesh, but rather as we learn in Jude, left their place and came here....for that they are doomed to destruction....because all must be born from their spiritual body into their flesh body...to have a chance at Paradise.

They do not and will be destroyed. Perdition.

Plus, you also failed to realize without the TRUE LIGHT (John 1:9) then nothing could have been made that was made.

Got that one fine, thanks.

Jesus or YHWH, the Son, was the TRUE LIGHT that was brought forth into this physical world when God spoke the Word in the beginning and said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT."

I addressed this once already...but we understand that God's name is better put as YHVH.... the W that most put there is definitely a V. Again, I know who Christ is.

Jesus is YHWH himself, the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father of whom no one knew of his NAME at this time.

Again, I know who Jesus is.

These are the few things that I can come up with on top of my head and I hope, it helps.

God Bless

Well, I can tell that this isn't a game to you and you really do believe that you have the truth. I think that I can honestly say that if there is not a true body of believers to go along with what you say is truth, than it cannot be so. The true body of Christ will consist of the elect, those chosen souls able to help God fulfill His plan, and stand up to Satan who is the antiChrist. There # is put at 7000, although I understand this to be a representation.

So, if you get back up, those that believe as you do, then maybe, but if you are alone, then it just cannot be so. I'm not saying that is you.

in His service
c

watchman_2

09-07-2006, 12:26 PM

2pillars,

On the internet, everyone has an opinion. You have come to the SC threads with a theory/opinion that you think is verifiable and accurate according to the scriptures. We SCers and the regular SC detractors have patiently reviewed your information, have studied your references, have asked questions, and have thoroughly refuted your theories.

In fact, you have been asked whom your teacher is so that further investigation can be made to understand and debunk your theories. You indicated that you have no teacher except the Bible itself. I have no issue with that position except when I hear you claim things are true like 'rapture' and use terms like 'Apologist' and 'SC cultists'.

Clearly, such terminology is not in the scriptures. So, you would have had to pick these terms up somewhere to assert that they are true. Hence, you do have someone else's teachings to guide your beliefs.

Accordingly, you are deceitful in your presentation and a huge liar.

Do you care to reveal the truth about your beliefs this time?

2pillars

09-07-2006, 01:48 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Obviously, since I have exposed watchman's biblical ERRORS, and could no longer refute my postings that are DIRECTLY address to him, he now has to resort to malicious accusations and LIES in order to redeem himself of the embarrassment I must have put him into.

The fact that the continuing discussions of this thread also document the making up and apologies of each others aggressive behavior in the past, watchman' chooses to remain defiant and his hatred obviously seems beginning to show for the past few days, isn't it ladies and gentlemen?

Therefore, I will leave the accusations to my open minded readers to judge who the real LIAR of this board.

Sorry, I am taking ezekiel_37 advise very seriously. Thus, I now refuse to go down and dirty with you, watchman.

It is apparent that your doctrinal teachings has been refuted and destroyed by me - that is why you are reducing yourself to this level attacking the messenger instead of focusing of the actual issue that was brought forth to you directly.

I understand your predicaments.

I rest my case. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

2pillars

09-07-2006, 01:51 PM

2Pillars wrote:
JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED ON THE 1ST EARTH, NOAH'S GRANDSON FORMED A UNION WITH THE DESCENDANTS OF MANKIND FORMED FROM THE WATERS. CORRECT.

ezekiel_37 wrote:
wouldn't this be the same example of Macro evolution as you suggest....

by your own definition, this is macro evolution.

if Cain married another race on the other planet, or when Noah's grandson's(pure bread) married outside the Adamic line and into that prehistoric mankind race. They must be different....thus fall under the definition that you yourself produced for macro-evolution.

Dear EZ,

No, it is not . MICRO-evolution happens everytime a baby is born and is observable - Genesis 6 attest to this fact. MACRO-evolution is strictly based on speculation and can’t be verified .

However, it is classic equivocation by evolutionists to mean macro-evolution when they speak of evolution, but turn to micro-evolution when asked for evidence

Micro-evolution involves either maintenance or LOSS of genetic information between species. Whereas, macro-evolution requires NEW genetic information to create the varying organs we see different animals have. IOW, evolutions reliance on mutation and natural selection can only give you loss of sight or flight for example, but not new functionalities and organs.

As I have posted before, the mating between a Cat KINDS – a Lion (male) and Tiger (female) producing GIANT offspring called LIGER is a good example of MICRO-evolution. The same is true when it comes to the “sons of God” (mankind) and humans as documented in Genesis 6.

To be continued....

2pillars

09-07-2006, 02:02 PM

ezekiel_37 wrote:

Also, as plow deep has pointed out, the sons of God most definitely included Satan in the book of Job. What do you make of that anyway.

************************************************** **********************************
Dear ezekiel_37 ,

Correct, but if you read the Scripture more closely, the text does NOT imply that they were the “fallen angels” as your doctrinal faith assume it to be.

In fact, the sons of God were fellowshipping with the Lord, at that time, shouting for joy witnessing the finishing touch of our earth for our inhabitation on the 6th day, as recorded in the Book of Job.

Satan and the sons of God were all taken to a neutral place somewhere on the 3rd heaven, where the Lord hold his audience for discussion. ( of course, that is NOT the same place of Heaven where God actually lives.)

The same analogy can be applied to Paul if you read II Corinthians 12:4 more closely when he was taken to the 3rd heaven to meet Jesus.

Following your logic, are we then to assume Paul was a follower of Satan since, the same place also include the audience of Satan’s follower?
Look and read…

II Corinthians 12
v1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
v2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD heaven.
v3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
v4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Can you imagine those “unlawful words” - the context of the words being spoken there - that man can not utter in verse 7?

In fact, it is the same place, somewhere on the 3rd heaven where Paul was given a companion, a messenger of Satan to buffet him should he (Paul) exalted himself above measure.

Let us continue reading the text and jump to verse 7…

v7 And lest I (Paul) should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Do you see my point? While it is true that the sons of God were in the same place where Satan was taken to the 3rd heaven and have audience with the Lord, the Scripture does not suggest “sons of God” were the “fallen angels” of Satan - that happened before the world was. That’s just purely based on blind speculation.

In closing, also, nowhere in the Scripture you will find that those fallen angels have “substance” simply because they are supposedly ministering spirits who left their place of inhabitation’s.

As a result, they were not SPARED as documented in the Scripture nor given a chance to evolve themselves into human beings BUT were CAST DOWN TO HELL, delivered into chains of darkness, reserved unto judgment.

Read…

II PETER 2:4 For if God SPARED NOT the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

God Bless

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 07, 2006)

plow_deep

09-07-2006, 03:18 PM

2pillars,

"As I have posted before, the mating between a Cat KINDS – a Lion (male) and Tiger (female) producing GIANT offspring called LIGER is a good example of MICRO-evolution. The same is true when it comes to the “sons of God” (mankind) and humans as documented in Genesis 6."

As I posted before. That is known as crossbreeding. Same family. Just as when you crossbreed a horse and a donkey, the end result is a mule. Same family.

Your ideas of micro and macro-evolution are faulty.

"...nor given a chance to evolve themselves into human beings..."

Since we know angels are a higher lifeform, how do you figure they would evolve into a human? Which is YOUR assumption alone. Not anyone elses.

Wouldnt that be de-evolution!?! (thats funny!)

"...the text does NOT imply that they were the “fallen angels” as your doctrinal faith assume it to be."

The scripture provided was to show angels are known as sons of God.

I dont believe Ezekiel was implying they were "fallen angels". He was just wondering what your thoughts were.

Peace

2pillars

09-07-2006, 08:54 PM

ezekiel_37 wrote:

Either the 'Forming' of Adam was not considered part of the creation as he is distinctly 'formed' and not created ..... or God is speaking of 'up till then', in a timeline so to speak .... or any one of numerous other self held theories/doctrine. Wierd but I'll get it all eventually.

************************************************** ***************************

Dear ezekiel_37,

IF you believe in the Mystical Union of the Triune of God as "One" (echad - collectively), then, I would think that you should be able to discern the usage of the words Create and Make or Formed in the Scripture, accordingly.

Biblically speaking…

CREATE – is the term basically used whenever the unknown (name) invisible Almighty God Father CREATES something from NOTHING (ex-nihilo) through the power of his logos.

MAKE or FORMED – is the actual PHYSICAL Making or Forming of the thing that is already Created or in Existence - by the power of physical hands of the Lord God (Son).

simile: Like Making Up the bed, every morning.

Thus, the Earth that was CREATED through the power of Father' logos - was MADE UP especially for our inhabitation by our Lord God (Son).

That is why the Lord God (Son) is described in the Scripture as thy MAKER, in the beginning - the God of the Jews and now, including us Gentiles.

Adam was physically FORMED by the Lord God (Son)from the dust of the ground which is already in existence, on the 3rd day -- BUT, did not have the quickening spirit that is of God (Father) at that time yet.

Then, Adam - after the agreement of the three divine beings - was CREATED in the image and likeness of God, by being given or MADE a quickening spirit by God, out of heaven, on the 6th day.

I hope above helps in your discernment of the terms. Let me know otherwise.

God Bless

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 07, 2006)

terluvire

09-07-2006, 08:55 PM

HI Plow deep,

you said:
Since we know angels are a higher lifeform, how do you figure they would evolve into a human? Which is YOUR assumption alone. Not anyone elses.

I was wondering the same thing...lol

2pillars

09-07-2006, 10:11 PM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Genesis 6 tells us of micro-evolution.

It shows that the combination of the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and Adam's daughters (humans) produced men of renown.

As I have said before, Micro-Evolution or descent with Modification, happens every time a baby is born.

However, the allege transformation of "fallen angel" (spirits without flesh and bone) into human beings - with sex organ - to produce offspring like us, is the biggest LIE on this board - and would be in the same category of MACRO-evolution' theory of speculations not supported by the Scripture.

God Bless

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 07, 2006)

watchman_2

09-07-2006, 11:03 PM

I have been hanging out lately at the evolution topic, while trying to educate those evolutionists. I thought, after hearing all of the ridiculous claims over there, that I would come back to the good ol' SC threads for some sanity.

After trying to decipher 2pillars position and debate points, I think that the evolutionists make a lot more sense.

(Message edited by Watchman 2 on September 07, 2006)

plow_deep

09-08-2006, 01:13 AM

Watchman2,

Ive been following your debate in the evolution topics. Thats a tough battle.

The theory of evolution is one of the main tenants of faith for the religion of self-worship/atheism.

What bothers me most is the couple of Christians that take sides with the atheists. Ive noticed they mainly post in the atheist thread and always whine about their Churches and complain about Christians in general. Its a sad read.

2pillars is convinced in his own mind on his theological and evolution errors. His mind is closed. Even if you take it back to the Hebrew and Strongs numbers it will be a waste of time because he has made up his own definition for "sons of God", and his own special definitions for micro and macro evolution.

Following his posts is like reading a bad science fiction novel.

I agree, your debate in the other topic is atleast on a more intelligent level...good luck.

Peace

watchman_2

09-08-2006, 12:04 PM

plow_deep,

You are, as usual, right on the mark with your analysis.

I am ashamed to discover that there are Christians that believe in evolution. However, I discovered that the only difference between them and atheist is the responsibility for the lightning bolt into the primordial soup of chemicals. Atheist say it was a random occurrence. Christian Evolutionists say it was God causing it to happen. Thereafter, the atheists and Christian Evolutionists have the same beliefs. I am not quite sure how Christ, salvation, and everlasting life fits into the equation for the Christian Evolutionists.

It is truly heart-wrenching to know that so-called Christians are conspiring with atheists. I call the Christian Evolutionists fence-sitters. I believe that it is a defense mechanism to avoid ostracism from either side.

Thanks!

God Bless!

2pillars

09-08-2006, 12:27 PM

plow_deep WROTE:

2pillars is convinced in his own mind on his theological and evolution errors. His mind is closed. Even if you take it back to the Hebrew and Strongs numbers it will be a waste of time because he has made up his own definition for "sons of God", and his own special definitions for micro and macro evolution.

************************************************** **********************************
Dear Open Minded Readers,

So far, based on my opposition' fallacy of arguments and NONE DIRECT rebuttal to the issues I brought forth, I see no need of the Blue Letter Bible Search Tool, available in the internet, at this time.

The fact is, my records show that I used them all the time in the other forums - whenever there's a need.

This people does not impress me at all with regards to their cut-and-paste mis-direction of the actual meaning of the Hebrew Words at hand - by giving you only partial definition of the term.

However, their equivocation and tactics do not work with me, because, where I am coming from, they knew not. As a result, they always find themselves grasping for a way out to save face - just like what we have been experiencing from them, for the past few days.

It's so sad, isn't it? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

(Message edited by 2pillars on September 08, 2006)

kimberlyfredrick

09-09-2006, 04:16 AM

hey dude, 2Pillars, for a "Christian" you gotta be the meanest, rudest, obnoxious bore I have ever encountered. The way you puff yourself up with pride gloating to "Open Minded Readers" that you alone have the key to unlocking the meaning of every scripture/verse is just plain unholy. You relish in telling others just how "Stupid" they are because they don't agree with you. your posts leave me spiritulally sick. I'm not kidding. I feel sick inside when I read how you degrate everyone here. And let me just tell you this. What ever God your selling here, I don't want any part of it/him/etc. I don't want to know a god who would send out his "chosen"( as you like to think of yourself) to mistreat people who are searching for the truth, trying to be good sheep and do God's will. I don't want to serve a God who would chose someone like you to parade around the "lost" as you see us happy as heck to rub our faces in your " you win we lose" scripturefest game. I've had it with all of it. if this is what your God is all about I don't want to know anything about him. I have read enough posts here from everone to know that the people you enjoy abusing are good and decent people who are really trying to serve God, the God I wish to serve. If your God is this God then I don't want NO GOD! I admit, I have poked fun at you. I apologize for hurting you. I did not realze until recently that hunor/jokes are NOT funny when the other person is not laughing. I am sorry for that. Somehow, I convinced myself that you were here just funning us. I think now you might be dead serious. regardless, what God you are trying to introduce to me here I don't want him in my life. That god can kiss my donkey! This whole thing has just made me spiritually sick.

(Message edited by kimberlyfredrick on September 08, 2006)

terluvire

09-10-2006, 04:59 AM

HI Kimberly,

I agree, none of us want any part of his false doctrine.

Here is an excerpt from a post 2stumbling_blocks made about a year ago:

If Noah had not left his world and came to this Planet, we would still be innocent Apes, because Evolution does NOT produce Humans. Human Intelligence must be inherited from another Human.
http://www.faithforum.org/challenge/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4656&whichpage=3

2pillars

09-13-2006, 05:44 PM

Dear ALL Unbelievers:

Here's what the Lord says with regards to his calling which you all seems to refuse......

Proverbs 1
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UNTO YOU, I will make known my words unto you.
24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

arron

09-13-2006, 06:51 PM

i heard murrays son on tv. the other morning and he was spouting off things he did not prove such as he made the statement that angels are not immortal but angels die, he also said there will be no rapture and offered no bible for either of these statements. angels dieing??? such nonsense

terluvire

09-13-2006, 07:36 PM

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

watchman_2

09-14-2006, 06:26 AM

2pillars,

Nice post -- but nonresponsive to the question posed to you. See terluvire's post No. 465 above.

If Noah had not left his world and came to this Planet, we would still be innocent Apes.

Please provide scripture that supports your claim.

david_munson

09-14-2006, 04:34 PM

Hey Watchman,
you're asking a lot from this one.
Scripture that doesn't exist.LOL.

Maybe Charlton Heston is his theology teacher.
After all,he did play in the Planet of the Apes.

And the Lord said to Noah,"build a flying saucer?"

2Pillars,
evolution is non existant.
Metamorphasis is not evolution and does not offer support for it.
And,
Noah is someone you seem to know nothing about.
We are standing on "Noah's world."
The one he was born and died on.
According to the Word of God that is.

You ought to write fiction.You seem to be very good at it.

Dave

}

smyrna

09-15-2006, 03:38 AM

I really don't like answering Arron's posts, but for the sake of offering a rebuttal to his childish assumptions, here goes: angels were created beings, thus they can certainly perish. Since they are not flesh and blood like humans, they are subject to the second death (Rev. 2:11)that is, perishing as in the case of Satan, as the fallen angels will also perish when Satan is finally sent to perdition.

As for the Rapture, this has been debated on Factnet many times, and if Arron still thinks he's going to be floated off somewhere to escape from some guy running around the planet tatooing everyone with 666, then so be it. So far, he is wrong.

arron

09-15-2006, 04:18 PM

where has ONE angel ever died. or where does it say that angels die

smyrna

09-15-2006, 05:37 PM

One of your problems Arron is reading comprehension. Had you understood what I wrote the first time, then you would not be offering the challenge you offered.
The second death, as it is called in Revelation,is the death of the soul, in humans, and angels are also subject to this second death, since they too are created beings, but not in the flesh and blood humans are.
As Satan himself is angelic, i.e supernatural, and he has been declared to be headed towards death (perdition), one knows that those who have followed Satan, fallen angels or departed human souls, will also be subject to perdition.

So in closing, for you to challenge to show that the Bible states the death of an angel is to deny that you have any knowledge that eventually, Satan and all his fallen angels will die, which means in their case they will be erased from any existence whatsoever, even our memories that they ever existed will be erased.

Bible references:Son of perdition, II Thessalonians 2:3

Perish entirely: Psalms 37:10

God as a consuming fire: Deut. 4:24

terluvire

09-15-2006, 06:57 PM

Arron,

What are these verses talking about if angelic, celestial beings, are not subject to judgment?:

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

AND

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

AND

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The word "judge" in the Greek is:

krino
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

(Message edited by terluvire on September 15, 2006)

terluvire

09-15-2006, 07:26 PM

Hi Smyrna,

I forgot to say hi to you in my last post. It is always nice to see you.

Shame you missed 2 weeks with 2pillars...lol

smyrna

09-15-2006, 07:55 PM

terluvire,

Thank you for the welcome.I didn't actually miss the last two weeks, I just did not have the time to participate in the fun. I have a net conectiion while I'm at sea, but due to time constraints I did not want to get involved in posting my own comments. So I read, but did not post.

But I do now, and I'll tell you that I think I've got 2pillar's number. By that I mean I believe he is one of those personalities that is only concerned with convincing people that he is superior to them, and that he can never be wrong.

He has convinced himself of his own delusionary ideas. He has no one who seriosuly believes him, otherwise he would be spending his time with them instead of us.

He is starved for attention, and if he can find just one person he can nurture with his own delusions, he would consider himself a greater success than he already does.

He still has refused to admit he has been influenced by Sitchin and other ancient astronaut theorists. He will not divulge where he gets his audacious theological ideas.

He taunts, he makes snide remarks towards those who disagree with him so that he can puff himself up and sound like he is superior. However, he cannot back up any of his claims except with his own homespun defenses, which as we have seen are insufficient.

He even has his own unique definitions of common words:

Unbelievers: Anyone who doesn't believe his own unique version of God's Word

Open Minded Readers: A sarcastic way of addressing SC students.

Macro and Micro Evolution: Catch phrases for his own unique explanation of creation.

In closing, this guy is so far out there, that he cannot come to terms with the issue of the fallen angels and their ability to impregnate women without a need for "evolution," macro, micro, or, more appropriately for him, Devo (borrowing from the 80's group, which stood for *de-evo*lution, as in going backwrd)

In his logic, the Holy Spirit could only have impreganted Mary if He had 'evolved" somehow. He is a very silly fellow.

I doubt very seriously that any of us will ever meet a person with a more twisted explanation of the Bible. He puts the fictional Archie Bunker to shame!

terluvire

09-16-2006, 06:09 AM

Hi Smyrna,

I have to admit, I was hoping you would post while 2pillars was here. You're sarcasm would have been great! LOL It would have certainly brought some humor into it. Some of us were getting very upset and disturbed by him. 2pillars bothered me more than godchild ever did.

You know, I didn't even think to bring up the conception of Jesus with 2pillars. I wonder what he would have said about that.

I found other stuff which 2pillars believs. Here are two posts by 2pillars elsewhere:

My version of "Trinity" is three separate Gods (not gods) distinct and separate entity from each other.

AND:

Did the Father send his own Being with the SON, since, they are inseparable, accordingly?

If not, would it be the case where the Son was sent by the Father without a Being???

If yes, then the Father sent His OWN BEING with the Son, thus the Father sent the Son with himself?

When Jesus said, "Father why have you forsaken me," ? the question begs, if the Father really forsake the Son or not?

If yes, then obviously they are separate entities, since, to forsake is to disunite. If not, then the utterance of Jesus was a mere charade.

Anyone's thought is appreciated.

http://www.thechristiandefense.com/post-24533.html

And you are right, if there were many others who believed this way, he would have been spending more time with them than with us.

But I do feel sad for 2pillars. What would make someone believe such teachings? And the sad thing is, how do you get through to someone like that? 2pillars is very stiff-necked.

smyrna

09-16-2006, 06:37 AM

terluvire
How on earth, or Noah's planet(ha!), did you find 2pillars at the link you posted?
Regardless,
2pillars is not about finding the truth. he claims to already have it. And that is fine, at least with him.
This guy is about being himself a divine oracle. He leaves no room for he himself ever being mistaken. When he is cornered,he wiggles out by using diversionary tactics, ala llm.

I am still holding out hope llm and 2pillars will get into a one on one discussion. I bought extra popcorn just in case.

It must have taken years for 2pillars to sink into the depravity that he is now in. In the old days, he probably would have been judged a danger to himself and/or the community in which he lives. He would have been locked up and fed tranquilizers.

In today's world, he will be seen by some to be an exalted prophet, a cosmic thinker who has revolutionized theology, at least among some group of people out there, he just hasn't found them yet.

When he does, maybe he can get his own TV show and compete with Pastor Murray. After all, he has to be just as good, if not better, at teaching God's Word, since he so often proves Murray and his students wrong, at least in his own mind.

But if he is searching to gather a following unto himself, he better get crackin.' Because he hasn't won anyone over here, and apprarently his only audience over at the Christian Defense forum is 'cardman' who probably will work his way back to the poker table after his run-in with 2pillars, and 'grahame' who is apparently a moderator, who has yet to see 2pillars at his finest. For when he does, I suppose 2pillars will get the bum's rush, and sadly, will end up spending more time here.

terluvire

09-16-2006, 06:59 AM

HI Smyrna,

I found alot of 2pillar's posts by typing "2pillars" into my yahoo search bar, it didn't work with my internet explorer search bar.

Here are the search results that came up:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-&p=2pillars

The funniest site was one called "Fundies say the darndest things". It has the top nominated, off the wall, posts listed there...lol It appears to be frequented by athiests, but boy did they have alot to say about 2pillars posts...lol Some of the comments are a bit off color, but at least they did not agree with his teachings.

I found that site at: http://www.fstdt.com/bottom.asp?month=01&year=2006 And his post at that site is listed here:
http://www.fstdt.com/bottom.asp?month=01&year=2006#9194
Click on comments to read everyone's thoughts about his post...lol

I was surprised though, at those sites I posted before, some of the people were actually tolerent of him, such as the ones you mentioned. I couldn't believe it!!!

You said:
2pillars is not about finding the truth. he claims to already have it. And that is fine, at least with him.
This guy is about being himself a divine oracle. He leaves no room for he himself ever being mistaken. When he is cornered,he wiggles out by using diversionary tactics, ala llm.

I agree. He would not answer one question posed to him. He skirted around every single one.

LOL I was waiting for 2pillars and llm to get into a discussion but sadly it never happened...lol We would all join you eating the popcorn for that one...lol

smyrna

09-16-2006, 07:19 AM

Well terluvire, never say never. llm I am sure is lurking around this forum, probably waiting for me to go away again, so he doesn't have to answer those pesky three questions he still has refused to answer, at least coherently, for us to try and understand.

Thanks for the links to the crazy cyber-planetary
journeys of 2pillars. I'm sure I'll have a good time reading them. Great detective work!

terluvire

09-16-2006, 07:32 AM

LOL Yep, I'm waiting for llm to post again so that I can ask my question....AGAIN to him...lol Same goes for godchild. She thinks she got out of it...lol I'm just waiting. I really want to hear from her if marriage is blessed or cursed by God, for that was her reason for the flood, that sons and daughters of Adam were marrying and giving in marriage..lol

Thanks for the comment of great detective work. It's amazing what you find when you are bored...lol

smyrna

09-16-2006, 07:41 AM

Terluvire,
I found soemthing in the very first post in this thread that 2pillars wrote:

"Of course the first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the rain. Gen 2:4-7 This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures."

So according to 2pillars, man was created BEFORE he would have had anything to eat!

I wonder how 2pillars will get out of that one? Maybe he will claim that there was a Pizza Hut nearby!

terluvire

09-16-2006, 07:45 AM

LOL

It's amazing how common sense works!! Shame 2pillars didn't use any.

smyrna

09-16-2006, 10:18 PM

2pillars is nothing but a joke. A living, breathing joke.

I've seen how he has been treated on other forums. We are not alone. They all see him as a joke. It's a bit frightening, that a guy like this is presumably walking the streets of our great nation. Then again, maybe he isn't.

Maybe he is writing from a prison, or mental hospital ward. Because of liberals in our society, even sick, whacked out people are given these priviledges.

Does anyone what to speculate what this guy does for a living? Considering the shape our universities are in, where football is the most important thing, maybe he is a professor.

Then again, maybe he just sells popcorn at those games.
The bottom line is he is a clown, and it is sad his life is wasting away.
But maybe from our experience with people like this we can understand that there is a great deal of work for us to to to spread the Word, the best we can, in humility, but with faith that our Father will lead us to share the truth of God's Word, and to continually share the peace He left us with in His Son Jesus Christ.

arron

09-16-2006, 11:41 PM

smyrna... the reason you dont like answering my posts is because you dont answer them for you cant you have to bring up some mans doctrine or some out of the bible stuff you and all the other like you

smyrna

09-17-2006, 12:53 AM

Arron's post above is so outrageous, it isn't worth answering directly. Many of us have answered to his ridiculous posts, only to have him come back with drivel such as we see above.

The most obvious example to me in recent memory is that he did not understand that in Biblical language, to "uncover a man's nakedness" is to sleep with his wife.
Even the Bible manuscripts themselves explain this figure of speech, but Arron will not accept it. That is not any man's "doctrine", it is what the Bible clearly states.
I would think that makes Arron an unbeliever, at least in those portions of the Bible that mention someone sleeping with a man's wife.
How many times did forum participants point this out to Arron? But still he pretends, as he must be doing, to not have read any of those posts.
He talks about "bringing up some man's doctrine" but he believes in some "rapture" an idea that was never known to anyone in Christianity until at least 1830. Almost two thousand years of Christian history, and this guy Arron chooses to believe a MAN'S doctrine that as unkown until around 1830.
Arron has a lot of nerve, but not much else going for him.
Better he get off his computer and watch TBN.
But you know what Arron is going to do. He will disappear for a while again, and hope that subsequent posts make this one hard to find.
He doesn't want anyone to see or remember that he has been proven wrong once again.

2pillars

09-23-2006, 11:55 PM

Dear SC Followers,

I have a good news and a bad news for you all....

The good news is... I am so busy with my new job that I would not able to expose your DOCTRINAL ERRORS more often than I like to at this time.

The bad news is... unless you are Born Again spritually in christ and received a spirit that is of God - you don't have a spirit to return to God when you DIE. No unclean spirit can enter the Kingdom of God. REPENT!!!

See you all whenever I can!!!

smyrna

09-24-2006, 12:00 AM

I hope 2pillar's new job isn't at a seminary.

terluvire

09-24-2006, 12:38 AM

LOL

So according to 2pillars, Those who are not saved do not have a spirit in them. So what are they? Zombies? LOL

kimberlyfredrick

09-24-2006, 12:57 AM

The only 'fruit' 2Pillars has is his left-over 'fruitcake' from 1974. I never got just what type of spiritual rebirth he was hawking at us last time he was here. I suspect it is something as whacky as his "Noah was a Spaceman" theory...LOL!
He'll be known forever on that one. I would not be surprised if he's referring to some type of re-encarnation twisted with a piece of "spacemadness".....LOL

smyrna

09-24-2006, 06:25 AM

"The only 'fruit' 2Pillars has is his left-over 'fruitcake' from 1974."

LOL!!!!!

Hey, remember what day he wrote his post about the new job. It is written on Saturday night. Maybe he is a bartender.

In any case, it sounds like he won't be around much. Which is good for him and us.

I know that many people work on Sundays, but usually it is a service job, not many white collars jobs work Sundays. I have no problem with blue collar folks, actually I'm a crossover from white to blue. But this guy 2pillars fashions himself as some genius, so you would think he would have a white collar gig. (professor at Berkley?)

No matter what job he has, can you imagine having to work with that guy?

kimberlyfredrick

09-24-2006, 10:36 PM

Well, he at least provided a little comedy relief from time to time. He'd been hysterical if he was'nt so nasty with the snide remarks.. I still think he was yanking our chain about believing that stuff. Call me niave, but I just got a feeling about his posts.

2pillars

11-27-2006, 01:16 AM

Dear Open Minded Readers,

Microevolution or descent with modification is God's way of keeping "kinds" within their own "kinds". Micro assures that dogs remain dogs...they evolve or change...but within their own "kind".

On the other hand, SC' blind doctrinal faith supports the changing of "fallen angels" (w/o flesh and bones) becoming human - with sex organ to produce offsprings - is clearly based on the theory of macro-evolution.

Such acceptance by Blind Faith is typical for SC followers. With little or No evidence, these zealous SC followers claim they don't support macro-evolution Religion, but their own doctrinal teachings betray them. Such ignorance is rarely seen. However, it contaminates the hearts of those others who fall for such foolishness.

SC support for macro-evolution, placing their worship in "man's wild imagination" see their position as "lofty", when in Truth, they are praising the great destroyer. Only those who are ignorant of Satan's ways, would fall for such tripe.

What a shame!!!

(Message edited by 2Pillars on November 26, 2006)