Fig Tree Cafe v Cultblunders

[watchman_2]

We all know that those who promote SC teachings at Cultblunders will be banned.

In all fairness, the Fig Tree Cafe, which promotes SC teachings, is no different. If one attempts to present the truth there and it is different then what they have in their heads, you will be banned as well.

I am ashamed that a site that promotes the teachings of SC would resort to similar tactics as those brainwashed fools at Cultblunders.

It is the Truth that sets us free!

[arron]

i have never gone to fig tree cafe. i dont even know how to get on there.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">HI Wathcman, Were you banned? If so, I don't see why. Differing opinions should be fine to discuss.
And you should be allowed to discuss an error if you think you see one.</font>

[watchman_2]

Hi terluvire,

I have to admit that I was banned from the Fig Tree faster than I was banned from Cultblunders.

I expected that Cultblunders would not tolerate the truth; however, I never thought that a SC promoting site would resort to similar tactics.

SCers always seemed to represent the best in Christian objectivity, since SCers are not offended by opposing views of or are afraid to discuss scripture. I am saddened to discover that this is not entirely true.

[abiyah]

<font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifWell Good Afternoon to you Terluvire !

I sent you a letter... you know where to find it my friend and fellow laborer IN CHRIST THE LORD !

Matthew 7:15
" Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. "

Mathew 7:16
" Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles ? "


Mark 13:5 -6
" And Jesus answering them began to say, Take HEED lest any man deceive you; For MANY SHALL COME IN My Name, saying, I am Christ [ A Christian ? ]; and shall deceive many. "


Abiyah</font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">I am so sorry to hear this Watchman.

I have to admit that I am clueless to the numbers PM uses in the older Daniel study, heck even the recent ones, including the Visions study. I don't understand how he gets them, nor uses them. I am totally and completely lost.

But if you do understand those numbers and do see an error, there is no reason it can't be discussed at the Cafe with those who also understand the formulas.

Again, I am very sorry to hear this. You are right in that us SCers are usually very open-minded and objective. I am lost as to why they would ban you.</font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hey Abiyah, I did not see your post. I was trying to post mine..lol

It is hard at times getting posts to go through here. Factnet needs to update their system.</font>

[watchman_2]

I'm sure that many have visited other Bible forums only to find rules prohibiting Catholics, Mormons, Jews, and SCers, etc from posting. Such practices are seclusionary and cult like.

I take such prohibitions as a sign/admission that they cannot defend their beliefs scripturally, so all others are precluded. This is sad for them.

Moreover, when I see SC supporting threads utilize the same tactics at the FTC, I am disheartened for it gives the same sign/admission that SCers cannot defend beliefs scripturally.

I know that is not the case; but, nonetheless, I hate to see SC supporting sites resort to the same tactics.

God's Truth must be good for all. If one has been blessed with scriptural truth, wouldn't it only be proper to share that truth with friend and foe?

[ezekiel_37]

Hi watchman....

May I ask just why you were banned from the fig tree cafe?

I am by no means a regular there, but I thought that they were fair.

I admit that there are those there with agendas, self appointed...but overall, it has mostly been uplifting.

I am quite curious as to what you said that those at the fig tree banned you for.

Strange!

Peace to you
c

[watchman_2]

Hi Zeke,

I was not given any warning or reason why I was banned. I was simply posting on a topic upon which I disagreed with PM and was wondering whether the members there saw it the same as I did.

I have been informed that it might have been some behind-the-scenes communication between members over there and a case of mistaken identity.

Nonetheless, my point stands with regard to banning others. I find the practice disgraceful.

[ezekiel_37]

Agreed!

[godchild]

quote from watchman: watchman_2
Senior Member
Username: watchman_2

Post Number: 1343
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 1:22 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We all know that those who promote SC teachings at Cultblunders will be banned.

In all fairness, the Fig Tree Cafe, which promotes SC teachings, is no different. If one attempts to present the truth there and it is different then what they have in their heads, you will be banned as well.

I am ashamed that a site that promotes the teachings of SC would resort to similar tactics as those brainwashed fools at Cultblunders.

It is the Truth that sets us free!
-------end
This from one of the men that signed am's ministerial license:

From: American Patriot Friends Network apfn@apfn.org
http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/apfn/


Why American's are SHEEPLES: FLUORIDE

To Whom It May Concern:

I, Oliver Kenneth Goff was a member of the Communist Party and
the Young Communist League, from May 2, 1936 to October 9, 1939. During
this period of time, I operated under the alias of John Keats and the
number 18-B-2. My testimony before the Government is incorporated in
Volume 9 of the Un-American Activities Report for the year 1939.

While a member of the Communist Party, I attended Communist
underground training schools outside the City of New York: In the
Bues Hall, and 113 East Wells Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The East
Wells Street School operated under the name of the Eugene Debs School.
Here, under the tutoring of Eugene Dennis, M. Sparks, Morris Childs,
Jack Kling and others, we were schooled in the art of revolutionary
overthrow of the established Government.

We were trained on how to dismantle and assemble mimeograph
machines, to use for propaganda purposes during the revolution; how
to work on guide wires and fuel lines of airplanes so that they would
either burst into flames or crash to the ground because of lack of
control; how to work on ties and rails to wreck trains; and also the
art of poisoning water supplies.

We discussed quite throughly the fluoridation of water supplies
and how we were using it in Russia as a tranquilizer in the prison
camps. The leaders of our school felt that if it could be induced into
the American water supply, it would bring-about a spirit of lethargy
in the nation; where it would keep the general public docile during a
steady encroachment of Communism. We also discussed the fact that
keeping a store of deadly fluoride near the water reservoir would be
advantageous during the time of the revolution, as it would give us
opportunity to dump this poison into the water supply and either kill
off the populace or threaten them with liquidation, so that they would
surrender to obtain fresh water.

We discussed in these schools, the complete art of revolution:
the seizure of the main utilities, such as light, power, gas, and water;
but it was felt by the leadership, that if a program of fluoridating
of the water could be carried out in the nation, it would go a long way
toward the advancement of the revolution.

The above statements are true.

/s/ Oliver Kenneth Goff

STATE OF COLORADO )
) S5
COUNTY OF ARAPAHOE )

[godchild]

FROM THE FIG TREE
The quote that started it all.....

"Oliveleaf, and others, your time-lines are corrupt by your using this (your 1981 reference) date as the BENCHMARK!"

The word "corrupt" stands out harshly. We all know what corrupt means. It is a red flag word we all know.
---------------------
i have heard PM reference the face in the cloud of mt st helens several times. just never heard of the reference of Pastor Murray and Elijah. i have heard him say dozens of times that he is "just a man" dont take the word of this man or any man, heard him when telling of angels appearing to people in the bible that they are just servents as we are and not to fall on the ground a bow to them, even not to refer to PM as reverend because this title should be only for Christ or God. Just wondering if I am missing something because i only recieve broadcasts that are several years old. wondered if this is something he was now saying that hadnt said before?

i appreciate everyone here at this forum. i have learned so very much here. Gods Blessings!!!!
-------------------------
ALL OF THIS CAN BE FOUND AT THE "CURRENT EVENTS 2007" THREAD.
VIVIAN

[godchild]

MORE GARBAGE:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote from oliveleaf
"All I really understood was that around 1980 was when Sc was opened, And that same year Mt. Saint Helens eruption with the face in the smoke that is Elijah, PM being the spirt of him

i have been studing w the chapel for a long while. i havent heard everything the pastor has ever taught but in all i have heard i have never heard him say he was the spirit of Elijah. what does that mean anyway? i do remember him saying once that someone in the bible would have been in the spirit of Elijah if he had been recieved but wasnt. i dont remember who he was talking about but i never understood what it meant then either. can someone please explain to me?

thanks
truthstudent
-------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi truthstudent, We have many threads covering this subject. I can't speak for all the students of SC, But PM does talk about the face at Mt. Saint Helens. Maybe someone knows the links to those threads here. Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirt and power of Elias, To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, To make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


God Bless. YSIY Olive.
-------------
EVEN IF AM DOESN'T COME RIGHT OUT AND SAY HE IS ELIAS, HIS STUDENTS ARE CERTAINLY GETTING THAT IDEA.

[smyrna]

Godchild wrote: "EVEN IF AM DOESN'T COME RIGHT OUT AND SAY HE IS ELIAS, HIS STUDENTS ARE CERTAINLY GETTING THAT IDEA."

Godchild's reasoning, if you want to call it that, if superimposed in an academic atmosphere,would cause her to claim that the teacher was wrong when in fact it was the student who did not get the teaching right.

She is really trying to force her own stupid assumptions on the discussion at Figtree,which is what I suspected in the first place.

Like I said before, I tried to get on the forum to ask them to clarify the posts, but this system I'm on gave me a 404 error. I haven't tried again since, ebcause I hate filling out forms and then having the system bomb on me.

Godchild on another thread here tried to say I've been banned, which is incredibly stupid, given the fact I haven't been on Figtree for over five years!

I am going to get in there, because maybe Reine and the group need some help. Seems many new people are there now, and of course there are I am sure people that are just learning the Bible, or are being freed from that ridiculous apple and talking snake theology that the detractors idolize.

[godchild]

Boy, you sure have a lot of excuses. Excuses for not posting the photo of sc church building, excuses for not working on your website, excuses for not getting on at theseason.

Maybe they need some help? Your show is not worth the price of the ticket. Your inflated ego is so self-less. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[smyrna]

Keep it up Vivian Hetherton Hadden. You will eat your words. For the sake of readers, let me tell you that old Vivian knows I'm at work in the Gulf of Mexico right now,(I stated this in a post already today) away from my own system, hundereds of miles away from my home.

And I already said my time here is my spare time, and not the only activity I am involved with. I'm not some lonely, miserable old woman, that does nothing BUT agitate others on Internet forums. Just look at the number of her posts for proof of this.

Godchild will be sorry when I complete my expose' of her and the other detractors. They already look foolish to most. My work will just be the icing on the cake!

[franklin]

Can't have a civil discussion on scripture huh smyrna? Always has to be the personal vengeful slanderous cultic attack. You reveal daily here that you and your heresy are nothing even close to being Christian.

[smyrna]

Here is an example of what Franklin calls a "civil discussion" taken from his very own post of 1:39 AM today, on the "Smearnoff is Finished" (Franklin made up that title about me) thread:

"I am pointing MY finger at you and telling YOU to stop this insanity. This hatred, this racism.

Walk away clean from Arnold Murray and his heresy!

You try to act like you are intelligent, then be so! Stop being ignorant watchman. Stop being brainwashed man. Stop being racist!

There ain't no spawn of satan. That is IGNORANCE!

Ignorance is not bliss. The ignorance and racist hatred of the German people led to millions of deaths.

Is that what you want? Millions to die again? You are spewing the same lies, the same propaganda, the same racist hatred as the nazis."

Smyrna: In the above comment, Franklin continues his accusations, accusations we have denied over and over.

How can anyone have a civil discussion, when guys like Frankie will not do anything but accuse us, no matter how many times we deny those accusations have any value, and we do it with proof?

He's a clown, and clowns aren't in the business of civil discussions.The same goes for Godchild.

[godchild]

I guess smyrna finally decided he'd better get busy and feed those 500 men he claims to be a chef for. But I'll go ahead and share about my time as a mormon.

I think I have made it plain that I left the mormon church 21 years ago. I was a member from the time I was 13. Being a child, I wanted to please my parents, naturally, and joined with them. I left in 1986 when I truly understood they teach that men will be gods. They don't teach that to most mormons; its not something they discuss in sunday school class. In the mormon church, you must be considered "worthy" to learn all their cultic doctrines. I was never considered that worthy because I seldom attended sacrament meetings, I smoked cigs and drank alcohol. Although I read the bom once, I found it to be a boring story about groups of men fighting other groups of men over and over again, having little to do with Christianity. It talked about Jesus visiting America after His resurrection (similar to the sc belief that the apostle Jeremiah went to Britian or Ireland, whichever). They also taught (as scer's do) that we were spirit children in heaven before coming to earth. (not unlike scer's they also believe they are the "true Jews". Much of mormon doctrine was rascist. I was raised in a rascist family, and never felt comfortable about that. The older I got, the more I realized the evil in that kind of teaching and thinking. One more thing similar in mormon and sc teaching is that js and am both used/use the Book of Enoch and other books not considered inspired by God.

Being an "unworthy mormon" I never went to the temple. In the first place, I lived far distant from any temple. So no, I've never worn the undergarments, that I agree are ridiculous. I had a spiritual awakening in 1986, even though I thank God that as a child I went to a Baptist Church with my grandmother, and was first baptized there, so I considered myself a Christian. God has dealt with me mercifully, and I am blessed every day for leaving that cult and standing against all cults who preach "man" instead of God. I will be happy to answer any further questions. Since I left the mormon church, I have not and will not place my name on the membership rolls of any man-made church or organization.

[smyrna]

Godchild wrote: "I think I have made it plain that I left the mormon church 21 years ago."

That doesn't matter any more than what occurred in Murray's past doesn't matter to you, that you choose that as a new way to attack him.

Godchild also wrote: "One more thing similar in mormon and sc teaching is that js and am both used/use the ***Book of Enoch*** and other books not considered inspired by God.

More insane ignorance. The Book of Enoch is part of the CANON of the Ethiopian Church:

"Whilst this book (Enoch)does not form part of the Canon of Scripture for the larger Christian Churches, various groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, regard parts or all of 1 Enoch to be inspired Scripture." Source: Wilkepdia

Let me also remind the "scholarly" Godchild that the Book of Enoch was quoted in Jude, a New Testament book.

The rest of Godchild's post is a rambling of excuses. I'm sure she still harbors those strange beliefs, maybe even practices the rituals.

After all, I have just as much a right to speculate about the repurcussions of her involvement with the Mormons as she does with her clownish "research' and subsequent insane speculations regarding Pastor Murray.

Most people think Mormons are whackos. Perhaps Godchild, being an admitted "unworthy mormom" because she is a boozer, can be seen as even a bit more looney than they are.

Godchild also wrote: "I have not and will not place my name on the membership rolls of any man-made church or organization."

Good! Sounds like you are ready to join the only Church actually founded by Jesus Himself.

"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church."

After all, Christs's Church is not made up of a bunch of Godchilds roaming the Internet claiming private revelation, as she and Frankie do. It is clear they consider themselves Biblical authorites, as they toss around the term "heretic" at anyone who does not agree with them.

And in Godchild's case, she is moving farther and farther away from the accepted Christian doctrines of MOST if not ALL Churches.

I wonder what reception she would get, if she started running aorund telling different Churches that Moses did not write the Torah, that satan really does not exist, or that Joseph was really Jesus's true father, even Mary admitted it!

Oh yeah, I know, Godchild later found out that he was Jesus' "legal" father, but not until after she openly doubted the Virgin birth for many days. Just a digression to show how unlearned she is, in addition to my comments above.

[rachelengland]

Couldn't you two talk off the board, maybe you would understand each other better...It's almost as though this has become a he against she type of fight....
I always thought of you as a loving person...R

(Message edited by rachelengland on February 05, 2007)

[smyrna]

Rachel wrote:
"Smyrna, I always thought you were loving but you call her a boozer and a looney...I don't know GC that well but she doesn't seem to call others names..she just attacks views. R"

Rachel, do you really want to stand by your claim that Godchild does not engage in name calling? How about straight out lying? I have plenty of evidence of that. Let's address her hypocrisy. Do you really in your mind, think that she does not regularly engage in hypocrisy?

It's nothing personal. Like I have said, she is really a sideshow. At least to me. But she needs to be placed in check, because although I understand she had disagreements in her and SC's beliefs, this does not give her license to lie, misrepresent,and deceive people with her exhibition of the most outlandish tactics that even non-chapel folks have observed and commented upon.

Do you know how many times just this last week that she has been caught lying? At least three times. How many accusations she has made without offering not one shred of evidence? Countless.

[rachelengland]

I erased that part..I don't know who calls names anymore, we all do- even I have..

You two carry on-it's your business..R


(Message edited by rachelengland on February 05, 2007)

[dodge]

I must say, with all objectivity, that this “godchild” does appear to be obsessed with the ideas of Arnold Murray to the point of mental illness. Look at her, with over four thousand five hundred posts, attacking the beliefs of others on a daily basis. In my opinion, as a person with a background in the mental health profession, this is symptomatic of a pathological condition; and it would be beneficial for her if she were to seek therapy in order to get to the roots of her obsessional hatred of students of Shepherds Chapel. I would also put Franklin in that category, with almost five thousand posts consisting of unjustified rants against the beliefs of those who study with Shepherds Chapel. I say “unjustified” because his accusations are mostly empty rhetoric with very little truth. As much as I disagree with the ideas of Arnold Murray and the Shepherds Chapel students, I also respect them and believe that they have a right to embrace whatever interpretation of scripture that they find has merit in their lives. I don’t see any Shepherds Chapel students strapping explosives to themselves and blowing up as many people as they can in the name of Allah; and I don’t see them murdering people involved in abortion clinics. All they do is talk about the “truth” they see in the Bible; and back it up with scripture. Why don’t we debate their beliefs with research and educated opinions instead of persecuting them for their points of view? I, for one, would like to get beyond petty bickering and elevate this forum into a higher purpose.

[skooter942000]

RE:

MORE GARBAGE:

-------------------------------




(http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif)

- On this , (i agree).


same old thing

day after day

year after year

Like the little white Bunny hittin that DRUM.

....it keeps Going, (and Going, ... and Going)


- Try Duracell instead.
- but Reverse the Polarity. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


<font color="0000ff"> <font face="arial,helvetica">Negative - is not the new Positive - (Reinforcement)</font></font>

(Message edited by skooter942000 on February 05, 2007)

[smyrna]

Dodge wrote:

"I, for one, would like to get beyond petty bickering and elevate this forum into a higher purpose."

Here here!

Well, what we can do is try once again to ignore the troublesome detractors, like Godchild, Franklin, and Arron. There are a few more sane people here, and we can have a civil discussion.
Let's include Observer also in that list, because I'm fairly certain he is "illogical_al" at Cultbusters. Then there is "trashcanman" who I think is Franklin, and if not, he's definitely someone else from CB.

If we can just ignore them, they will hopefully go away. We'e tried it before, but they just posted more and more outrageous allegations, to the point we had to say something, for fear new readers would actually believe them.

But anyway, it's worth a try.

(Message edited by smyrna on February 06, 2007)

[watchman_2]

dodge,

Great post.