From gc at CB

[skooter942000]

godchild
Hero Buster

Offline

Posts: 929




Champion of


Re: shepherds chapel right or wrong
« Reply #220 on: February 14, 2007, 09:31:39 AM »

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And so much for separation of church and state.

I watched a newscast about Barack Obama. Though he lived with his mother as a young child (4 years) she apparently followed the muslim religion. He has been a member of a Christian Church for his adult life.

I've seen photos of am.
Doesn't he look kind of like
.....(not a human, but a .....oink-oink).

No wonder he won't eat them. Sorry!

Sometimes I can't resist. Slap me! Oww!

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[DISCERN-MENT- <font color="119911">"ON"</font>]

=-= Is this CHRIST-LIKE?




Pro 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge:
but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.

[skooter942000]

Facts are Facts:

http://www.cultbusters.com.au/index.php?topic=307.msg10125;topicseen


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif

[smyrna]

Thanks Skooter,

For another enlightening look into the twisted mind of Godchild.

Of course, I'm sure she will have some ridiculous excuse for her obviously racist and intolerant comments, like "it was just a joke" following Frankie's lead, when he commented that "Ihavesinned" should perform an a male on male sex act with and orangutan.

These people come off as so self righteous, yet they make vile comments, racist comments, false accusations that have no evidence to back them up, and yet they feel they are so above everyone else, they can just post any vile, silly, and misguided material without having to account for themelves.

Their only defense, (if you want to call it that) is to divert attention from themselves by bringing up once again their own discontent and disagreements, or even use more false accusations against others.

But as I have said many times, Godchild is clearly whacked out, and this stuff is just another example of the evidence we can cite to affirm this charge.

[franklin]

Skooter, now would be a good time for you to write

"smyrna, I just read YOUR post and I have to ask YOU, are you being Christlike in the way you viciously attack anyone who speaks against our beloved cult leader arnius maximus?"

But I guess you won't knowing you live by the double standards rule like all the other Shepherd Chapel "students" do.

If YOU truly knew Christ you would abandon this racist heresy that is an abomination to God!

[smyrna]

Every time Franklin calls us racists, he is lying. Period. Because he cannot prove we are racists, and as a matter of fact,actually, FACTS, we are anything but racists.

Of course, Frankie recommended a website that can certainly be intrepreted as racist, because it claimed that all the races were the result of genetic "mistakes". (onehumanrace.com)

Frankie is also very foolish and hypocritical. Here we have one of HIS beloved comrades, (Godchild)making intolerant and racist remarks, and when we point that out, he calls that a "vicious attack."

Give me a break. This guy is so out of it,he refuses to ever acknowledge he is wrong. That is not me attacking him, that is simply a fact.

In addition, notice he has had nothing to say about CB's "Let's Talk About Satan" thread, where they have shamelessly conjectured that satan does not really exist, that he was a literary invention, and that Moses did not write the Torah. All he has said was that "He didn't care"

That is also not an attack, it is a fact.

The bottom line: Frankie's definition of someone who observes something and comments on it is known as an attack.

And if and when I do attack someone, it is not because they have disagreements with the Chapel and its students, but because of their trckery, hypocrisy,rumor mongering, and all these things have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, and that pretty makes Frankie's comment null and void, because he is doing just what I said they would do:

Divert attention from their own foibles, by bringing up the same old accusations that are false and unproveable.

[franklin]

Duh, A brother and sister conceiving children create genetic problems does it not?

Why did the Law of Moses forbid it?

Your retorts are worthless.

Believing the same twisted distortions of Genesis as the Nazis and the KKK makes you what?

__________. Let factnet readers fill in the blank.

Why else would someone pervert the word of God unless you have a preconceived agenda?

And that agenda is that you believe that modern day Jews are the spawn of satan.And that only the northern European Germanic ethnic groups are the true God's chosen people. And that you are too superior genetically to be related to blacks and orientals. That is the reason you twist and pervert God's word as it is written.

Antisemitism and racism.

Let's talk about scripture.

How does Genesis 4:1 say that satan is the physical father of Cain?

How does Genesis 7 say that all humanity, all races did not descend from Noah and his family?

You can't explain these questions to your twisted view to fit your racist agenda without lies and distortions.

You are what you believe. And what you believe is the same as the Nazis and the KKK. Only racists do to the Bible what you do.

And btw my comment was to scooter. Are you the cult leader of the factnet branch of SC. Are your minions allowed to think and respond on their own?

[smyrna]

Frankie wrote:

"Duh, A brother and sister conceiving children create genetic problems does it not?"

Answer: Moses's law,if you knew your Bible, which you don't, came AFTER Adam and Eve. You contradict yourself with that argument. One one hand you must agree that God creted everything and it was GOOD. Then, you claim that He created only Adam and Eve, and that their children, brothers and sisters, had offspring, and were thus punished through "genetic problems" or "mistakes".

Our Father does not paint man into a corner, Frankie. Only your silly theories do.

Frankie: "Why did the Law of Moses forbid it?"

Answer: I don't know, Frankie. Do you? Now I have a qwuestion for you. Are you sure Moses wrote the Torah, the Books of the Law?
I ask because several of your compadres over at CB apparently have an issue with that question.

My agenda, Frankie, is to point out the DISHONEST detractors of the SC. I don't mind HONEST disagreements. But you, Godchild, and your followers have proven time and again that you are hypocrites, liars,(not to mention just plain stupid), and those are not empty accusations.

All anyone has to do is read the threads here, with all the documentation that myself and others have provided.

See, that is the primary difference between you, Godchild, CBers, and those who honestly approach their interest in what the SC teaches.

I don't see any documentation of your allegations, only your own speculations as they are applied to what the SC teaches. If that were not the case, then the SC website, for instance, would be obviously racist in tone. Such as we find on so many other truly racist sites.

I know in my heart the SC is not racist. I personally don't give one though whether you believe me, that, or not,but I waas raised in a very diverse environment, am not racist AT ALL, and if I thought SC was racist or anti-semitic, I'd be the first to attack them for it.

I was a Lutheran originally, lived in Jewish neighborhood, had a black godfather who was my Dad's best friend. I studied Judo and Japanese language at the Chicago Buddhist Temple. Living in Chicago I had friends of many races and religions.

So you, Frankie, to me, is just some slobbering clown that has NO CLUE what you are talking about, but at least you are entertaining, which is what clowns do.

Now also, we have a large and still growing list of absolute falsehoods by Godchild, and as many or even more examples of hypocrisy and contradictions on your part.

Throw in your obviously shallow theolgy, such as not knowing that the term "Unicorn" is mentioned in the KJV, or that you could not answer why it said the "whole world" was taxed by Ceaser Augustus in Luke 2, and what we see in you is a painfully poingant example of Biblical maximalism.

But all that aside, you and your followers will never gain any ground playing silly games, lying, engaging in hypocrisy, or otherwise being quite disingenuous.

You also don't help your cause by starting a thread at CB where you all can lie and hurl your false allegations without us calling you on it. That just shows most peiople that you are cowards.

By the way, Frankie, this is a public forum. If you want to have a one on one conversation with Skooter, do it via email or IM.

[franklin]

Just the typical cultic, evasive, personally insulting answer I expected from you!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[smyrna]

Your comment is merely scapegoating Frankie, because you have no answer for your games.

Their is NOTHING evasive in my statement, unlike your diversion from the main issue, which is Godchild's recent vile comment about Obama.

You sir, are foolish.

[franklin]

Let's talk about scripture.

How does Genesis 4:1 say that satan is the physical father of Cain?

How does Genesis 7 say that all humanity, all races did not descend from Noah and his family?

[franklin]

"Godchild's recent vile comment about Obama."


What????????? What vile comment about Obama?

She clearly made a comment about arnie. Not Obama. Are you twisting,perverting someone's words again?

[smyrna]

DUH! to you, Frankie!

Look at the top of this thread, genius. Godchild talks about Obama's mother being Muslim, then she talks about Pastor Murray, and how he doesn't eat pork, which is forbidden as stated in Leviticus Chapter 11.

It doesn't take a genius to see that her comments about Obama's mother being Muslim, and we know they don't eat pork either, ties to what she says about Murray. Maybe she thinks Obama's mother looks like a pig, too.

Apparently she has a problem with Muslims and also Christians that don 't eat pork, which is against a whole body of people, both Muslims as well as the Christians, that accept the health laws of Leviticus.

Her comments were certainly vile, and reprehensible, and show a prejudice against even other Christians she doesn't agree with.

Now your constant comments and question about Genesis 4 as well as 7 has been answered many times, and you can keep asking, but we won't change our position, so you are wasting your time, which is what you are the best at.

You probably would be more successful at "deprogramming" or "cultbusting" Frankie, if you would actually come across as a scholar of God's Word, which so far you have clearly fallen face first at.

Based on your posting history at Factnet, all you seem to know is Genesis 4:1, and not much else.

In addition, you COMPLETELY ignore your buddies over at Cultbusters, who are speculating that satan does not exist, speculating that Moses did not write the Torah, and also speculating of God Himself entrusting satan to carry out GOD'S "evil instructions"! Sounds like they don't accept what the Bible states Frankie, but you are over here making the same accusation about us.

Read the "Let's Talk About satan" thread, Frankie, again, because I know you have seen it, but have not said anything here except "you don't care" what they talk about or believe.

Funny you could care less about your own CB folks,talking about such nonsense, but you have all these issues with us SC people.

You are quite entertaining, Frankie, a real example of hypocrisy.

(Message edited by smyrna on February 25, 2007)

[franklin]

Not really smearnoff. What you believe is out and out HERESY to the Christian faith!

[watchman_2]

franklin,

Who did Adam have sex with in Gen. 4:1? Gee--it looks like the woman already had her name Eve then.

How did Eve get her name? Gee--it looks like she was named because she WAS pregnant.

So, Franklin, who made Eve pregnant before Adam had sex with her?

[smyrna]

Anyone in their right mind (this excludes Frankie of course) can see he is dodging some serious issues.

His own Cultbusters house is filthy with heretical ideas, such as satan was just a literary invention, or that is he does exist, is there to carry out "God's evil intentions" (see Cultbusters thread, Let's Talk About Satan)but yet he just dodges that issue, and "attacks" me.

They side with those who say Moses didn't write the Torah, but still, nothing but silence from Frankie.

Are you that much of a coward, Franklin?

I admit you were not even involved with that discussion over there, but the problem is, these are your beloved fellow SC haters.

All I'm proving here is that you refuse to criticize them, no matter how heretical their speculations, no matter how obviously wrong they are. You are playing right into my hands, as usual.

I have always been to able to use your OWN words and actions against you, and don't have to make up things, like you and Godchild, or be hypocritical, like you and Godchild, or incredibly bumbling and rigid, like Arron, or simply eaten up with doubt, like "illogical_al"

WATCHMAN: Don't bother, he knows our position, he ignores it in favor of his own fundamentalist, maximalist, Sunday School fairy tales.

[skooter942000]

Yes,

- those who CLAIM not to HATE,
- DO CLEARLY HATE!!!

The messages HERE are PROOF.

The DETRACTORS have never seen the Actual PEOPLE
that study with SC.

Never seen the VIDEOS at Passover or FALL FELLOWSHIP.


Many Wonderful Peoples do attend.
- Of different Ethnic backgrounds.

Time and Time again, Pastor has said not ONE RACE
is better than another.




HE has said,

- Never apologize for your heritage.
Be PROUD , (not prideful in it).

- We are all created Equal.

"ALMIGHTY GOD" is not a respecter of persons.

"HE" does not play favorites.



CHRIST would not SHARE like the Detractors (DO).

- satan would though. (...And does)


Shows - "who follows who", - in actuality.


<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">[MATT 25:1 -on]</font></font>

- Beware of those , - with EMPTY LAMPS.


They have "NO LIGHT", - [WITHIN THEMSELVES].
- And CHRIST is the LIGHT.


- One cannot HAVE CHRIST, - (AND SERVE HATE).

[franklin]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

All of you are such a joke! You make satan very proud of you!

[smyrna]

Keep dodging the issues, Frankie. We like it.

[smyrna]

Frankie and company have done another disappearing act. You've got to love that.

Whenever they get themselves mired in their own foolishness, they do this.

Since this is the pattern, why don't they just stay away?

[smyrna]

Hello folks, just keeping this thread in the limelight, so to speak.

The CB cowards are on the run again, though I doubt for good. They always bank on the posts that proved them wrong or exposed their tactics to be buried among more recent ones.

It's a game they have been playing for a long time.

That is why Frankie threw up his white flag again, by wimpering to us that we are a joke, and that satan should be proud of us.

That is how he responded to my post that exposed the CB discussion board participants who openly speculate that satan does not exist, that Moses did not write he Torah,etc.

Well, Frankie, if we are the joke, YOU are the punchword. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[smyrna]

Talking about jokes, you really have to stop by the Captain's Lounge thread at www.cultbusters.com.au (http://www.cultbusters.com.au)

Frankie has flown back to his comfort zone, which is his fantasy space thread ever there, after getting trounced once again here.

I won't tell you what they are talking about, but I can assure you, it is hilarious.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

So funny, in fact,that I'm going back to read more!

[franklin]

You are soooo full of it smearnoff. You hateful character assassinator. It is amazing you find time to breathe you have your nose so far up your god arnie's arse.

You and the other racist heretics here are getting your arses thoroughly kicked by oneway. I don't know who he is but he is doing an excellent job exposing your blasphemy and heresy. He has much more patience than I do. I find it very hard to be patient with heretics who twist God's word into lies and then falsely claim they are Christians.

After dealing with the illogical minds of minions of satan like you, sometimes I have to break away and fellowship with real Christians for a while. Let someone else have a crack at it.

Christians have many different views on doctrines. All are accepted with tolerance in the big tent that Christianity is. But no Christians believe the heresy garbage that arnie spews. There is NO tolerance for outright racist blasphemy. You are way outside of the tent of the Christian faith and are of a completely separate religion on your own. Just like the Jehovah Witnesses, Moonies and Mormons who also twist and pervert scripture.

We are all enjoying the posts of oneway and whoever they are have our full support in their exposing your lunacy and cultic ways.

No one who believes arnie's blasphemy could be called a Christian because the Lord Jesus Christ is NOT arnie's master. It is obvious who his master is. The one his heresy glorifies.... satan. Funny how the so called serpent seed doctrine is believed by both racists and satanists. But NOT Christians.

Adam and Eve had sex with Satan? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Eve is not the mother of all humanity? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

satan is Cain's father. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Funny how you claim all these cult followers of arnie maximus, all these internet forums and yet when the SC "students" are exposed on the fig tree of making anti semitic, racist remarks, then all of a sudden they are NOT followers of arnie. Twist and distort. Twist and distort. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

The great flood that flooded the whole world was a local flood or the so called kenites and the other races were stowed away with the beasts of the earth on the ark. You guys can't even get your lies straight. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[franklin]

You are all fools following a false prophet leading you away from God and God's true word.

I'm just enjoying the comedy entertainment value of you constantly claiming that you have no answers now because it has all been explained before. When absolutely nothing has been explained before. Just more lies, twists and perversions of God's word. A lie is NEVER an explanation or answer.

And then your constant lying that you don't create diversions. Now that is hilarious. On every thread, this one especially you are the official arnie murray attack dog, not discussing scripture civilly, but viciously personally attacking the individual people who come here and disagree with you. You are shameless and without a conscience. It is obvious you and arnie are not of God just the way you deal with anyone who disagrees. Your personal attacks against me, all false accusations, are just some of the many diversions, smoke and mirrors, to avoid discussing civilly the word of God.

Thanks for promoting Stardate One though. Too bad you got banned for your obnoxious behavior because the photos and graphics are pretty cool.

All you write, all you say smearnoff only glorifies satan. Not God. And you are too stupid too realize it. Have a nice day heretic! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[smyrna]

Frankie seems to have become immune to whatever dosage of whatever pharmaceutical that has been prescribed to him.

Frankie can't even tell that I was "promoting" the Captain's Lounge, and not Star Date One, though both are equally silly and childish.

In any case, Frankie is in not only a state of denial, but also of self delusion. Because it is clear to any sentient mind that he has deliberately dodged my posts that show his own Cultbusters website is populated by doubters of God's Word.

How can these people over there, including Frankie,dare come over here to Factnet and accuse us of heresy and all that other stuff, when he himself recommended a website that claimed the races originated due to "genetic mistakes" and a curse?

How can they come over here and cry heretic, and say we aren't Christians, when some of their own people doubt satan exists, claim that Moses did not write the Torah, and speculate even that God used satan to carry out God's evil instructions?

Anyone can go to the CB site, and look at the thread "Let's Talk About Satan",and see for themselves.

Yet Frankie has absolutely no problem with that, nor does he have a problem with recommending websites that claim the races were basically genetic mutations, all while telling us how he doesn't listen to any man, only the Word of God.

This is a guy who knows so little about the Bible, he didn't even know that the word Unicorn is used in the Old Testament, what, about five to eight times? Not in obscure places, either. One reference is in Psalm 22, which laid out the Crucifixion almost one thousand years before it happend.

He claims we lie all the time, but he never proves we lied about anything. On the other hand, we have posts right here at Factnet that clearly shows he was lying, as well as Godchild, and some other CBers.
He can make all the claims he wants, but since he never backs them up, who would listen?

He rumormongers that people at the Figtree made racist remarks, yet no one from CB can come up with any posts from there to back their claims, Instead, they make up their own false accusations, which they also could not back up.

Really silly stuff, like accusing Pastor Murray worshipping Baal in his barn! Please, how silly is that? And when we ask: show us the proof?, what we get is more dancing that we can see in a ballroom.

They are all in a fantasy world over at CB, a cult unto themselves.

He's also a master at accusing us of things he is guilty of. The problem is, he, as I have already said, can never back up his accusations. He makes all sorts of accusations, and then when he is called to show proof, he disappears.

Let's look at his post above, for evidence also that he is just bonkers:

"Thanks for promoting Stardate One though. Too bad you got banned for your obnoxious behavior because the photos and graphics are pretty cool."

This guy gets excited about people posting photos of beautiful women, as if those photos were of themselves, which gives us a clue as to how insecure they are. His own graphic is some purple lightning bolt. Yeah, real "cool" Frankie.

What I'd like to know, is how he can explain I got banned because "the photos and graphics are pretty cool"?

Heck, I can still see all those "pretty cool" graphics and photos, so I don't know what he's talking about.

[smyrna]

Frankie calls obnoxious behavior anything that someone does that goes against their status quo.
I went to CB knowing full well I'd be banned, not for being obnoxious. Let's see some proof of my so-called obnoxious behavior, Frankie, point us to a Cultbuster post where I was obnoxious.

No, I was banned because the admin there deliberately tried to stifle any attempts to defend my beliefs as well as the SC. And frankie cannot prove otherwise.

His definition of "making personal attacks" is also askew. To Frankie, anyone who points out one of his many errors, or hypocritical behavior, is "personally attacking" him.

Often, in the same post where he cries about me or others making "personal attacks" he chooses to make his own: "You are all fools following a false prophet"..."After dealing with the illogical minds of minions of satan like you"..." It is amazing you find time to breathe you have your nose so far up your god arnie's arse."

This "Christian" man Frankie also thinks it's a joke to insinuate someone should have male on male sex with an orangutan!

So Frankie, it seems to me you have a whole bunch of accusations that you cannot prove. And that pretty much makes you worthless.

Now if anyone out there wants to see what I'm talking about, I strongly recommend you read the posts at Cultbusters.com.au, and also pay close attention to the posts on the thread here titled Shepherd's Chapel Students, which really shows how hypocritical Frankie is.

I can go on, but the material that has already been assembled is plenty.

[franklin]

Same old crap you are always regurgitating sicko! You can't stand it when I speak ill of your cult leader. Good thing I am not near you physically. You'd probably pull a gun out when I speak the truth about what you believe.

Blasphemy!

There are two of the worst kinds here on factnet. The atheists and the Serpent Seeders. So haughty. So full of themselves. So insulting. Always on the attack. So far away from God. So hateful of the truth. So lost!

You've been baiting me for weeks to come here and speak my piece. Like a little school girl gossiping about me behind my back.

Yes, you believe in racist heresy. Yes, you do believe the same heresy that satanists and Nazi racists do. Where is God in any of that?

[smyrna]

More accusations Frankie, but no proof. That's what you are all about.

I personally don't care whether you like Pastor Murray or not. But I do care when people lie about him or anyone else for that matter. You make accusations you can't prove.

It bears repeating, that if I thought Murray was a racist, I would be one of the first to say so. I grew up in a very racially diverse environment, and have many friends of many races.

I don't know how many people have come here telling you that at the Passover and Fall fellowship meetings the SC holds every year, people of many different races attend. But for you to keep making your false claims you MUST deny that has any value in showing the Chapel is not a racist Church.

That's the problem with detractors such as yourself. So many people have to be wrong for you to be right, it doesn't reflect reality.

Why won't you take your charges to the NAACP, or the Jewish defense league?

Don't give me any stupid excuse, just do it. How can you know if you are right or not if you don't do that?

I know the reason. You are afraid. You are afraid that they will tell you there is no basis for your silly accusations.

If I were in your shoes, Frankie, I'd do that. I'd write a letter to both organizations, and provide all your so-called evidence.

Of course, we'll never know if you do this, because if they didn't reply by saying they agreed with you, you'd run away with your tail between you legs.

The problem here is, Frankie, I'm sure some other nutcase has already tried this. And I suspect you know they have. And since those organizations don't agree with you, you just go your merry way, making those accusations, but not showing any proof.

Comparing the SC with truly racist organizations is not proof, Frankie. You know that, and that is why you have nothing to show the NAACP, or anyone else.

And Frankie, let's not forget your hypocrisy.

You are alwasy whining about me insulting you or your CB friends. But you opening line of your last post says:

"Same old crap you are always regurgitating sicko!"

Sicko, Frankie? Is that not insulting? Once again, you think it is ok for you to call everyone names and be insulting, but when someone does it to you, you whine like a child.

Let us not forget also, that you have no answer as to why your pals at CB, who doubt satan exists, who doubt Moses wrote the Torah, and who accuse God Himself of giving out evil instructions to satan so he can terrorize the human race, (yes, they contradict themselves in their insane speculations)are not targets of your accusations of heretics.

Anyone can see your silly bias, except you, and I can live with that, because it proves my point.

You are a hypocrite, a cowardly one at that. Yet you set yourself up as some leader, when you can't even instruct your own buddies to desist from heretical speculation, casting doubt on things accepted by EVERY Church in existence.

[franklin]

"Frankie seems to have become immune to whatever dosage of whatever pharmaceutical that has been prescribed to him."

Here is the insult you hurled at me along with many, many others that allowed me to call you "sicko" smearnoff.

Let's get the story straight instead of your usual perversions of the truth. You started the name calling first because that's what cult apologists do. Your precious god, arnie, is a piece of racist crap who deserves no defense. Just your belief in his racist, heretical perversion of the Bible and who else believes the same anti semitic garbage is proof enough of what is inside your dark heart. There is no other possible explanation for arnie's perverting God's word except for your racist and ethnic prejudice.

Like I keep telling you, stop pretending you are Christian, stop deceiving people and you will find more tolerance of your cesspool of beliefs. You'll still be a racist but you won't be capable of tricking real Christians into your heretical den of perversion. The entire Christian Church rejects your beliefs and has deemed it heresy 2,000 years ago. You have a right to reject Christianity. But you do not have a right to interpret Genesis 4:1 or any other verse of the Bible to say that satan is the father of Cain and still call yourselves Christians.

But you are not logical, honest or intelligent enough on your own to be able to comprehend these truths.

So go ahead and be just like the atheists here on factnet who hurl every dirty insult they can at me. You have so much in common with the atheists besides hatred of me. Out of your warped self love you both reject God's word.

[smyrna]

Frankie, how long are you going to dodge the dirt in your own house? How long are you going to keep stalling, keep diverting from the fact that you are being cowardly. That is not an attack, it is an observation.

You won't address why you won't write the NAACP or any other group that is in the business of dealing with acts of racism. You won't write or contact any group that has media influence, so you can "expose" SC's so-called racism and anti-semitism.

You won't even challenge your own buddies over at CB, who speculate that satan is just an invention, an invention of even unknown writers, since they are even speculating that Moses didn't even write the Torah. They even accuse God of having satan carry out God's, that's right, they say GOD'S evil instructions, and you let that slide.

Let me tell you something else. Even though you completely ignore that I have told you my father's best friend was black and he was my godfather, I'll tell you something else, jerk.

My first best friend was a Jewish boy by the name of Larry Greenberg. He had polio, and so he walked with a limp, before he was eventually confined to a wheelchair.

The other kids would laugh at him, and I had no problem sticking up for Larry, and would chase them away. If there was some bully that wasn't afraid of me, I'd go get my older friends after them.


So I'll tell you one more time: I am not a racist, and I would not associate myself with any racist or anti-semitic group.

Calling you names won't convince you of anything, but nothing else will either. But you sound very foolish to me, since I know my background, I know my heart, and I also know you can't prove any accusation you come up with.

Now Frankie, let me see if you can tell if your behavior is Biblical. You wrote:

"Here is the insult you hurled at me along with many, many others that allowed me to call you "sicko" smearnoff."

So Frankie, tell me what verse you can cite that "allows you" to hurl insults back at someone? Is it the passage about turning the other cheek?: Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

Maybe it is this one Frankie?:"And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles."

Does that sound like you should be returning insults, Frankie? Is that your theology, one of taking revenge on people?

To me, that is just a digression.


One more example of your hypocrisy before I sign off. You wrote: " But you do not have a right to interpret Genesis 4:1 or any other verse of the Bible to say that satan is the father of Cain and still call yourselves Christians."

Why don't you apply that logic to "illogical_al" on your beloved CB site, and ask him the the same thing? Are you scared? Are you going to deny he openly doubts Moses didn't write the Torah, or that satan was just a literary invention?

You must be afraid of "illogical_al". Perhaps you see him as an overbearing friend that won't pay you any attention, because he sees himself as superior to you.

Is that why you won't confront him? Why not Godchild then, who agreed with him? Are you that insecure, that you are afraid you'll get in an argument with her?

Many fears, Frankie. That isn't good.

[smyrna]

The main point is that I think you just like to be an agitator, and are afraid that if the NAACP, or Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton,or the Jewish Defense League don't agree with your charges that Murray is a racist, you'll be effectively put out of business.

The problem Frankie, is that since you won't contact any of these people or their organizations,or since you won't even confront your buddies over at CB about their openly doubting that satan exists or that Moses wrote the Torah, or even accused God of handing out evil instructions, then that makes you pretty much ineffective.

That is because you have no credibility. A child can see you are dodging serious issues.

You can't defend your position dodging issues, or bringing up things we have had no problem addressing back to you. You say for instance, that we have no right to interpret Genesis 4:1.

The problem with that is, we didn't interpret Genesis 4:1. The teachers that pointed us in that direction didn't interpret Genesis 4:1. All they did was exhibit the proper context so it can be understood compared to the rest of the Word of God.

If you don't agree, then that's your choice. You must be a pretty busy guy, running around the Internet ranting and raving about people you don't agree with.

There must be thousands of people, even millions, who don't believe the way you do, who understand the Bible in a different way than you do.

Your folly is that whatever you do,you won't convert anyone to your way of thinking by making accusations against them, especially without offering any proof. You won't convince anyone who is observing your behavior, because you have no proof.

If you were a lawyer in court, you would lose, because not only do you not have evidence, if you did have it, you would be afraid to present it, because you are afraid you would lose.

You have too may fears to be effective in this business, Frankie.

[franklin]

"So I'll tell you one more time: I am not a racist, and I would not associate myself with any racist or anti-semitic group."

Then abandon and repudiate Shepherd's Chapel, the heretic arnie and his racist teachings now if you really mean it.

"So Frankie, tell me what verse you can cite that "allows you" to hurl insults back at someone? Is it the passage about turning the other cheek?: Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif You hypocrite!

"There must be thousands of people, even millions, who don't believe the way you do, who understand the Bible in a different way than you do."

Name a Christian, Jewish or Islamic Church that has thousands or millions of members that believe that Cain is the son of satan and that Eve is not the mother of all humanity.

You can't. The white supremacist groups, including Shepherd's Chapel, collectively might be in the thousands. But not in the millions. Doesn't matter because none of them are Christian.

Your whole false belief system is based on fear because racism is based on FEAR! You are the one eaten up with fear. Afraid someone will expose your sacred arnie, the FALSE TEACHER, for the racist he is.

Go ahead and continue your pithing contest. You are only belittling yourself!

[smyrna]

Frankie wrote:

"Then abandon and repudiate Shepherd's Chapel, the heretic arnie and his racist teachings now if you really mean it".

Provide evidence that SC is a racist organization, without using rumors, guilt by association schemes,and use just what the teachings of the Chapel are, without adding your own interpretation or opinions by you or anyone else who sides with you, about them, and I'll do so.

Why am I a hypocrite if you whine and cry when someone insults you, but you think that somehow allows you to hurl them back?

I don't care what you call me, I don't whine and cry when you name call. I think it's funny, really.

I told you that guilt by association is a scheme, and nothing more. The SC does not approve of or endorse racist or anti-semitic groups.

We have addressed your other arguments many times. There are Jews who believe in the serpent's seed,other Christians who believe this without being racists, and I really could care less what Muslims believe or think, because they are becoming more militant every day, and that is not racist or biased, it is a FACT.

Finally, you STILL are diverting attention from the issues of "illogical_al" and the "Let's Talk About Satan" thread at CB. You STILL are refusing to concede your fear or otherwise provide reasons why you refuse to take your charges to the NAACP, JDL, or other watchdog organizations.

How can or why should anyone take you seriously when you keep dodging those issues?

[franklin]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[oneway]

smyrna,


You stated: "There are Jews who believe in the
serpent's seed,other Christians who believe this without being racists,"


Please do us a favor though. If you're going to claim that other Christians believe the ss doctrine, then please don't label these as Christians. Just label them for what they are..anti-christians.

[pilgrim]

smyrna,

You said,"There are Jews who believe in the serpent's seed,other Christians who believe this..."

Some jews and some people who call themselves christians also believe in the Kabbalah. The heresy of the serpent's seed comes from the kabbalah and other pagan sources but not from the bible.

[smyrna]

To Pilgrim and Oneway,

In case you want to continue to appear to be quite arrogant, to the point that you are setting yourselves up as self appointed ecclesiastical authorities,who would by necessity have me or any other SC member or someone else you disagree with in your own Church, you have no right to make any determination whether I am a Christian or not, or judge what we believe to be heretical or not.

You have neither that authority, and you appear arrogant and even silly by making such statements.

[oneway]

smyrna,


you stated; "I told you that guilt by association is a scheme, and nothing more. The SC does not approve
of or endorse racist or anti-semitic groups."


Guilt by association is the same as accessory to.



http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/TORELLI.htm

[smyrna]

Hey Frankie, is that all you got?

I guess since FN doesn't provide a white flag of surrender icon, you chose to go with the nervous laugh icon.

Kind of like in the boxing ring, when fighters get hurt, they smile or even laugh, to bluff their opponent so they won't realize they are dizzy and one more blow would knock them out.

I'll take it as that, Frankie. You've been pummeled to the ropes, you can't and won't face the issues and challenges like the leader you claim to be.

So, you cower behind your little laughing symbol, which makes you the laughing stock, not us.

You have been defeated, again, and your words rendered more useless that they were in the first place.

I thank you for your bumbling and stumbling, your cowardice and hypocrisy, which is now clearly evident once again,as it is also on the Shepherd's Chapel Student's Thread, and so many other places.

Now you can run back to your little space game at CB, or your role as Foxy Loxy at the Sky Is Falling animal role playing child's game.

Thanks for giving us the last laugh!
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[smyrna]

Oneway,

Your are going the wrong way.

SC does not teach what that site claims it teaches.

You would already know that if you really read through the posts here at the SC boards.

Heresay is not evidence.

I can give you many websites that make claims about what the Chapel teaches, and I can prove that it does not teach what they say it teaches.

For example, the site you gave us the link to repeats several times that Pastor Murray teaches that the seed of the serpent are the Jews of today.

That is completely erroneous and irresponsible of the publisher of that site.

The SC teaches that there are SOME that claim to be Jews and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan, as Revelation tells us in chapters 2 and 3.

Jesus also taught, as the SC of course agrees and teaches, that we are not to do anything to those we suspect are the sons of Cain, i.e. Kenites, (Tares)just as He taught in the parable of the wheat and tares.

There is no mention of this on that website, which proves they are not telling the truth.

In addition, we who study with the SC also are aware that technically,only the tribe of Judah are
properly referred to as Jews, though we also know it is common to give that term a broader definition, to include those of Judaism.

Finally, I ask you to take into consideration a fact that Franklin is too cowardly to accept:

No organization that is a watchdog group for racism or anti-semitism at the national level nor the mainstream media, or even the majority of net based news organizations, has ever openly accused or even questioned Shepherd's Chapel on the issues of racism or anti-semitism.

The SC didn't open its doors yesterday. They have had years to investigate the SC, and I'm sure they have taken a look, but there is no proof, and once again heresay is not proof.

Show me a Chapel newsletter, or something from the SC website, or a recording from the Fall Fellowship meeting or Passover meetings, or a tape by the Chapel that says we should hate Jews and minorities.

Don't make claims a tape says this or that, when it doesn't, and in at least one case I know of doesn't even exist.

Don't give me websites by others, who are just rumor mongers.

I'll offer you the same challenge that got Frankie to just post an icon instead of accepting it (even though he already shied away from it several months ago, as he has the other issues I have raised here.

If you are so convinced Murray is a racist cult leader, who also hates Jews, then why not try and get those nationally known groups on your side?

By the way, maybe you missed it because you are more interested in making repeat accusations instead of thoroughly reading the posts here.

But many of the same Chapel critics that accuse the SC of anti-semitism, also criticize it because
the SC acknowledge what is broadly described as British Israelism, though their are varying ideas about this, basically it is the claim that the Hebrew tribes populated the British Isles as well as Europe in the Diaspora.

In a classic contradiction, on one hand the critics claim the SC teaches anti-semitism, at the
same time they say that SC teaching that we all descended from the tribes is also anti-semitic, even though that would mean the SC teaches that we should hate ourselves!

The critics are so zealous, they can't even keep their accusations straight.

There is much more to this issue, but you can chew on that for a while.

(Message edited by smyrna on March 04, 2007)

[oneway]

smyrna,

Here's an idea. Why doesn't SC repent of this ss teaching and start afresh with the real truth of Gen 3:15 and what happened in the garden? Look at the type of crowd this ss doctrine brings forth. Why do you want to adhere to a teaching that brings forth these type of people if you have no racism in your heart? This has to be one of the most destructive doctrines that exists, I can't think of one more destructive. This doctrine is part of the strong delusion that happens in these last days. I believe that you are fully misunderstanding my intentions. My intentions are to try to make you fully aware that you are being DECEIVED. I don't care if you choose not to believe the way I do, I just care that you don't believe the way AM has taught you to believe.

[smyrna]

Who are you to say what is the truth about Genesis?

And you take a play right out of the Franklin playbook when you said:

"Look at the type of crowd this ss doctrine brings forth. Why do you want to adhere to a teaching that brings forth these type of people if you have no racism in your heart?"

Because the type of people I know that are associated with the Chapel, including AFRICAN-AMERICANS, are NOT racists.

The problem is, you don't or refuse to recognize that as with any teaching, it can be abused.

A whole generation of our white ancestors thought it was perfectly fine to have black slaves, and they based it upon the Bible!

I would like you to find me one incident of a hate crime that was tied directly to what has been taught at the Shepherd's Chapel,after what, twenty and more years of the broadcast being on the air?

Not anywhere, else, just the SC. I don't want to hear about aryan groups, or Nazis, or KKK. I want to see just ONE example of someone arrested that claimed his hate crime was directly based upon what Pastor Murray taught him.

I also want to know why now you too are shying away from writing a simple letter to any or at least a few nationally recognized racism watchdog groups, as well as the Jewish Defense League.

What is so difficult about that? I don't want some doctored up fake letter, I want to see the letter they write in reply,and I want a contact within that organization that will either agree with your charges or not that anyone can verify.

Again, after more than twenty years, NOT ONE media outlet, or nationally recognized racial or anti-semitic watchdog group has offered any negative comments about the SC.

Websites with idiots like Matt Slick or Bill Alnor don't count, they already have been exposed as lairs and distorters. Only some clown like Frankie would deny the evidence I have uncovered.

I tell you, they shoot themselves in the foot by acting that way. If their case is so solid, why do they have to lie, and fabricate stuff?

The SS doctrine, like many others can misunderstood, and abused. And even neophyte SC students are not immune to misunderstanding many things about Scripture in the course of learning, including the SS doctrine. No one is an instant expert.

But that is NOT and indictment of the doctrine itself, anymore than the indecencies of priests or other religious leaders cam be blamed on the seminaries they attended.

Such "logic" is ridiculous.

I still also would like to know why you ignore my earlier post,which explained that the site you cited was not representing what the Chapel teaches, they are wrong.

Where is the evidence that the SC directly teaches hatred of Jews or Blacks? Not an opinion, or someone else's views. Show me something from the program, or tapes, or newsletter, or website.

Racist groups have no problem telling us about their hatred. SC doesn't say anything of the kind in any way, shape or form.

Why don't you just watch the SC program for a while, rather than getting your info second hand through 'dirty filters'?

I think that is why you won't make any phone calls or write letters or emails to the aforementioned groups. You really don't know. Do you just want to play games, or do you want the truth?

You will NEVER convince me I am being deceived about anything if you just want to keep tap dancing.

[oneway]

You stated: "Look at the type of crowd this ss doctrine brings forth. Why do you want to adhere to a
teaching that brings forth these type of people if you have no racism in your heart?"

Because the type of people I know that are associated with the Chapel, including
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, are NOT racists."


Guess what, smyrna? You have yet again misinterpreted what I was saying. The crowd that I am talking about are the extremists that adhere to the ss teachings, like the ones in that link I provided in post #155. I humbly aplogize if you thought I meant the crowd that you are currently associated with. I don't feel that you are racist in the same regard as the extremists but you do adhere to a teaching that attracts racist extremists. That's all I was trying to say.
And the other point I was trying to make was, if you have no racism in your heart, then why would you follow a teaching that clearly attracts the racist extremist types as has been proven many times before?

[smyrna]

Oneway wrote: "then why would you follow a teaching that clearly attracts the racist extremist types as has been proven many times before?"

The same reason I devote most of my free time to studying a series of writings called the Bible, which men have used to justify their extremist behavior for centuries.

The Bible has been used to justify slavery, war,witch hunts,the Inquisitions, even drug use. That indicts men, not the Word of God.

The Bible clearly mentions slaves, does that mean we should all keep slaves? The Bible mentions men married to many wives, does that mean we should engage in polygamy? The Bible doesn't say smoking marijuana is wrong, so are we free to light up a joint, shoot heroin, or snort cocaine?

Now I don't adhere to any teaching that brings "forth these types of people" anymore than the Bible brings forth people who have done all the above things.

I know you aren't that shallow, Oneway. Frankie is, but I don't think you really are.

[franklin]

Franklin is smart enough and in tune with the Holy Spirit enough not to believe in your racist heresy. That's not shallow. That's what's called being a Christian.

[smyrna]

Frankie,

Maybe you should tune in to the Let's Talk About Satan Thread,you know, at the Cultbusters site where everything is "Christian", so you can read stuff like this:

"SATAN:
EARLY HISTORY: 300 BCE to 100 CE
Development of the Concept of Satan prior to 300 BCE in Israel"...

So, according to "illogical_al" Satan was not a created being, as it states in Scripture, but a "concept" that underwent "development".

Let's read on:

"However, analysis of the Bible as a historical document since the late 19th century has convinced essentially all non-Evangelical Old Testament scholars that most of the Pentateuch was not written by Moses."

Now "illogical_al" shares his sentiments with the apostate "higher-critics" and claim that Moses did not write the Torah!

It is clear that "illogical_al" has a thing for these modern day Pharisees, and sides with them, for he then writes:

"In the following material, we will assume that the ***liberal interpretation*** is correct."

Liberal interpretation? Gee, and all this time Frankie says nothing about all that nonsense going on, so he must agree with them. He's read it.He never challeneged them, and any mention of these issues over here is met with him dodging, diverting attention, and even laughing it off.

Let's go on: the thread also has this little tidbit:

"So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job's health. Here, Satan is portrayed as a servant of God whose task it is to dutifully carry out evil deeds at God's instruction."

Godchild, and apparently Frankie, since he doesn't challenge this thinking, agrees with this clown.

There is more:

"There are no passages within the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil - the arch enemy of God and of humanity. At most, he is described as a henchman who carries out God's evil instructions."

I guess they missed Genesis 3:15!

There is much more, and all this Frankie conveniently ignores when I mention it. Amazing!

He is a COWARD. That is not a personal attack, it if a FACT, a fact that can be seen right here on this thread.
He has zero courage, zero credibility, is clearly a hypocrite, and thus has been defeated as an effective enemy of the SC, Pastor Murray, his students, and even God himself, for he will not even defend the very Word of God against all the heretical speculations that as we can see are found at Frankie's beloved website, Cultbusters.com.au

Finally, he always refers to SC's "racist heresy". Not one shred of evidence, not one actual accusation, and if he can accuse SC with such nonsense, we can also note that Frankie himself recommended a website that is NOT IN TUNE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
It (onehumanrace.com)claims the races came from "genetic mistakes" which means the publisher, (not the Holy Spirit) theorizes that the races are genetic mutations, freaks in other words.

In Frankie's case, it appears he is correct.

(Message edited by smyrna on March 05, 2007)

[angie0401]

smyrna said:I know you aren't that shallow, Oneway. Frankie is, but I don't think you really are.

FRANKLIN replied:
franklin
Senior Member
Username: franklin

Post Number: 5001
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.53.136.147
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 6:24 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Franklin is smart enough and in tune with the Holy Spirit enough not to believe in your racist heresy. That's not shallow. That's what's called being a Christian.


I don't recall Franklin every speaking of himself in the third person, so I think he just tipped his hand - he is oneway. Guess he learned a thing or two from Rachel/jimito/warr after all.

[smyrna]

Angie,
You know, I don't recall Frankie doing that either. Of course, maybe we are still dealing with the conglomerate F.R.A.N.K.L.I.N. (Franklin Robotic Automated No Knowledge Lacking Intelligence Node) where a few of the CBers use the Franklin personality, and that is why "he" repeats "himself" so often.

You may be on to something though, as I thought about this also a few days ago. But really, I don't care, other than to use that info, if it is correct, to show just another shady tactic on Frankie's list of shady tactics.

Another clue may be that as in the case of "Trashcanman" (surely another Franklin clone)who appeared out of nowhere, but immediately attacked me calling me "smegma" and seemingly knowing about the different issues, having only signed on to FN briefly before disappearing.
This personality Oneway also fits the bill, except no name calling, which may be a way for Frankie to throw us off the fact he is also Oneway.

[franklin]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


ooooo! you suffer from paranoia self destroya!


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

I do not have the patience to deal with racist heretics who deceive themselves that they are the "chosen" of the master race like oneway does.

I have NEVER posted on factnet except as FRANKLIN.

But the revelation of your mental aberrations is hilarious.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

N0W back to what you have been avoiding. How does Genesis 4:1 say that satan is the father of Cain? You have continually failed to prove that to anyone.

[smyrna]

Hey Frankie,

You know you are lying when you say we avoid Genesis 4:1. And so does everyone else that reads these threads.

YOU, on the other hand, clearly are dodging that the Let's Talk About Satan Thread is full of heretical speculations such as Moses dodn't really write the Torah, and that satan is just a concept that underwent development, etc.

It is YOU that is so fearful of being told you are wrong, that you won't write one letter to any watchdog group that investigates racism or anti-semitism.

You made a typo in your false accusation statement: "I do not have the **patience**(courage) to deal with racist heretics who deceive themselves that they are the "chosen" of the master race like oneway does."

You are a coward Frankie. That's not an attack, that is a documentable FACT.

I really don't care who you pass yourself off as.

You are a coward, no matter what name you choose to go by.

[oneway]

smyrna,


you stated: "Hey Frankie,

You know you are lying when you say we avoid Genesis 4:1. And so does everyone else that
reads these threads."



Gen 4:5 *But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 *¶And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 *If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


Do you know what these above verses say to my spirit? They say that God is showing compassion, love, kindness and wanting Cain to do well, to try harder and to give an offering from his heart. If Cain were the literal son of satan, I promise you, God would in no way have compassion for him.
He wouldn't even accept an offering from him, it would be an ABOMINATION if Cain were the literal son of satan. Are you suggesting that God has compassion and lovingness towards satan and any of his ilk? I've got news for you, satan and his ilk lost that fellowship with God a long time ago. There is NO forgiveness for them. Cain chose his own fate by his own actions. God gave Cain an equal chance to please him. Cain followed satan's heart instead of God's. Satan accomplished a couple of things here. First he turned Cain's heart wicked towards God then he used Cain to destroy Abel. I believe that God was testing both Cain and Abel to provide lineage to Christ. Satan knew this and this is why he did what he did. He destroyed both prospects at the same time. This is why God drove Cain out, so this couldn't happen again with the next child who would be Seth.

(Message edited by oneway on March 05, 2007)

[smyrna]

Oneway,

Your post makes no sense at all."If Cain were the literal son of satan, I promise you, God would in no way have compassion for him.'

So I guess that if someone was the son of a serial killer, we should follow God's lead, according t you, and offer no compassion. What has the son done?

How do you know that God wanted Cain to look inside himself, to see the anger building up inside him, to let him know God knows what he is thinking.
God refused Cain's offering BEFORE he did anything to Abel. But he was already contemplating
harming Abel.He had hatred in his heart, he was driven by his father, satan, evil was in his very blood.

The evidence is in his own posterity, if you study the genealogy of Cain, of which you will find NO descendants of Adam, which is separated from the line of Cain.

You contradict yourself when you say "This is why God drove Cain out, so this couldn't happen again with the next child who would be Seth."

God placed a mark on Cain, so no one would kill him. You don't think that God could have protected Seth, even in the midst of enemies?

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Smyrna,

I'm glad you addressed this in your post:
post makes no sense at all."If Cain were the literal son of satan, I promise you, God would in no way have compassion for him.'

So I guess that if someone was the son of a serial killer, we should follow God's lead, according t you, and offer no compassion. What has the son done?

I was thinking the same thing.

We have these verses:</font>
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

<font color="0000ff">And</font>

Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

<font color="0000ff">And</font>
Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

[oneway]

smyrna,



you stated: "So I guess that if someone was the son of a serial killer, we should follow God's lead,
according t you, and offer no compassion. What has the son done?"


Let's try not to get things all mixed up here. I made it very clear what I meant. I said LITERAL SON OF THE DEVIL. The son of a serial killer wouldn't be the literal son of the devil. The son of a serial killer could be saved and I suppose even the serial killer himself could if he repented and his heart was towards Christ.


you stated: "You contradict yourself when you say "This is why God drove Cain out, so this couldn't
happen again with the next child who would be Seth."

This was just an afterthought so maybe so.


you stated: "Your post makes no sense at all"

Why can't you just get the facts straight and realize that if Cain would have been the literal son of the devil, his offering would have been an abomination to God, there would have been no offering to God. No devil or son of a devil can present an offering to God. God would not allow it. If you think this is not so, then you show me anywhere in scriptures that it is so. Make sure that you provide scripture after the fall of satan and his fallen angels. I am very well aware of at one time they were perfect in God's eyes. Now they are an abomination to the Lord.

[smyrna]

"No devil or son of a devil can present an offering to God. God would not allow it. If you think this is not so, then you show me anywhere in scriptures that it is so."

That is an abstract question, especially coming from somone who refuses to acknowledge that there is a literal son of satan.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Oneway said:
Why can't you just get the facts straight and realize that if Cain would have been the literal son of the devil, his offering would have been an abomination to God, there would have been no offering to God. No devil or son of a devil can present an offering to God. God would not allow it.

All persons in the flesh have a chance to receive salvation. The determining factor is not who their parents are, for all souls belong to God, but if they believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

No child pays for the sins of the parent(s). Each is accountable for their own sins.</font>

Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

<font color="0000ff">And</font>
Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

[oneway]

terluvire,


"All persons in the flesh have a chance to receive salvation. The determining factor is not
who their parents are, for all souls belong to God, but if they believe upon the Lord Jesus
Christ.

No child pays for the sins of the parent(s). Each is accountable for their own sins."


What part can't you understand? If satan fathered a literal son, that child would be a demon child in the flesh, an abomination to the Lord. There's a huge difference between demon possession
and a child being literally begat of the devil. With demon possession, that demon can be cast out, not so if the child is literally satan's offspring. You keep bringing up that Jesus died for whosoever. This whosoever doesn't include satan, demons or anything like that. If you think otherwise then your beliefs are more twisted than I have yet imagined.

[smyrna]

Oneway wrote: "What part can't you understand? If satan fathered a literal son, that child would be a demon child in the flesh, an abomination to the Lord. There's a huge difference between demon possession
and a child being literally begat of the devil. With demon possession, that demon can be cast out, not so if the child is literally satan's offspring. You keep bringing up that Jesus died for whosoever. This whosoever doesn't include satan, demons or anything like that. If you think otherwise then your beliefs are more twisted than I have yet imagined."


I guess we can call that paragraph: Oneway's Plan that God carried out.

Seems Oneway has a problem differenciating between
flesh and spirit. Plus, he is putting limits on what God and God cannot do, as if he was directing what God can and cannot do. This is a pattern we can see based on what he has said in previous posts.

He finishes by saying that if you think there is any alternative to what he believes, than we are twisted beyond his imagination.

All I can say to that, is just about everything he has commented upon are products of his own imagination, and not what we really believe.

[oneway]

smyrna,

You stated: "All I can say to that, is just about everything he has commented upon are products of his
own imagination, and not what we really believe."


Ok then make it clear as to what you believe. Do you believe that Christ died for satan and demons also? Do you believe that if Cain were the literal son of the devil, a fleshly demon child, that Christ died for him also. Here's your chance to set it straight with what you believe. This way, there won't be any second guessing as to what you really believe.

[skooter942000]

CHRIST died for everyone "BORN OF WOMAN".
- Born into FLESH.



- There are a FEW Exclusions.
-(VERY-FEW)-


Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man
be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a
man be born when he is old? can he enter the
second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say
unto thee, Except a man be born of water and
[of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


satan "has not",
- (Nor "will not" - be BORN in this MANNER).

"HE" is sentenced to PERISH. (PERIOD)


If a SOUL is born into FLESH,
they can attain Salvation.
(*Certain rules do apply*)


GRACE
+
FAITH
+
WORKS
------------
= Salvation

John 3:16 is just the starting point.



Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works, and glorify
your Father which is in heaven.


|
|
V


Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit
is dead, so faith without works is dead also.




- Anyone disagree?








[HEB 2:14]

CHRIST was born into FLESH -(To defeat DEATH).
satan is DEATH. (That's one of his many names)

See Rev 9 = (Abaddon/Apollyon)

[smyrna]

Oneway,

I think you are playing games. I'm not going to sit here and repeat what has been written on these threads over and over again. We have done enough of that, all of us that are with SC here, for many months.

If you are that interested in what we believe, then get crackin' and start reading, instead of posting.

If, after I ask you to do this, you make the silly mistake of challenging us again, all you will have proven is that you are lazy, or playing games.

All the info you seek is already published right here at FN, in these SC threads.

So like I said, get to work. I'm not going to hold you hand anymore.

And if you don't like that, then tough.

[watchman_2]

Oneway has proven to be little more than a heckler like the rest of the detractors. He has pretended to be a serious student of the Word; but, when presented with the Truth to set him free, he does the ostrich and sticks his head in the sand to avoid hearing and seeing it.

Like the rest of the detractors, oneway would rather hang onto his traditions of man and idolize his own religious perception of himself than to accept truth.

As one can see, he, like the other detractors, can only resort to a litany of insults. Because, when it comes to scriptural proof, he loses everytime.

[smyrna]

You got that right, Watchman.

His true colors are coming through tonight.

The question is: will he be just a detractor, or a damned detractor.

The difference? A detractor comes through here, gets trounced, and then leaves.

A damned detractor comes through here, gets trounced, and stays.

[oneway]

smyrna,


you stated: "You got that right, Watchman.

His true colors are coming through tonight.

The question is: will he be just a detractor, or a damned detractor.

The difference? A detractor comes through here, gets trounced, and then leaves.

A damned detractor comes through here, gets trounced, and stays."


Actually, this only brings further into the light, your true colors.

[smyrna]

Watchman,

You are right:

"As one can see, he, like the other detractors, can only resort to a litany of insults. Because, when it comes to scriptural proof, he loses everytime."

By the way,the thing about detractor/damned detractor is a spinoff of a joke down south here, about Yankees.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

And I am a proud damned Yankee!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[oneway]

smyrna,


You stated: " Watchman,

You are right:

"As one can see, he, like the other detractors, can only resort to a litany of insults.
Because, when it comes to scriptural proof, he loses everytime."

By the way,the thing about detractor/damned detractor is a spinoff of a joke down south
here, about Yankees.

And I am a proud damned Yankee"


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[rachelengland]

Oneway, I got a hand it to you-you have grace and show dignity when dealing with these people!

Smyna is loveable isn't hehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[smyrna]

rachel,

I'm sure your post has NOTHING to do with me busting you trying to stick up for your Biblically illiterate, doubting buddies over at CB, right!

It's no surprise that you all of a sudden pop up after the post I wrote not an hour ago about how you went and tried to cover for those clowns on the "Let's talk About Satan" thread at CB.

Give me a break.

[rachelengland]

Oh smyrna, don't be so paranoid....you've written all sorts of things about me..if I cared I would be here defending myself..but I doubt anyone really listens to you..you just seem to keep laughing and having so much fun here..

I don't know. people might find it strange but I am not intimidated by you..I find you quite charming..

Oh and as far as the CB thing goes I like posting, just because I know you'll be reading- then you'll run back here and tell everyone what I said..it's a real honour.R

[smyrna]

Rachel,

Show me an example of my "paranoia."

Your post shows you are here defending yourself.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

I am not trying to intimidate anyone. I am showing the hypocrisy of the detractors, the cowardice,and the sneaky, underhanded things they are doing. The proof is right here on these threads and at CB.

You may think it is an honour to associate with known hypocrites liars and cowards,but that's your right.No one has to wait for me to run back here telling people what you or anyone else at CB writes.

They can go there themselves. But I do it because I like to show the hypocrisy, lies, and other nonsense that you would not bring here yourselves, otherwise you would. of course, the CBers aren't totally abstinent about bringing garbage here.

I guess they think they know what they can get away with,and what they can't get away with.

Speaking about right, yes, I am having fun. Is there something wrong with having fun?

[rachelengland]

Well Smyrna, the last thing in the world I would want is for you to be cross with me...If you believe that Christ died for every living breathing human that walks the earth(Kenites and Non-kenites) than I will modify that post..I know that in the past I have hated it when people have taken portions of my text and criss/ crossed them and put me in a place where I could give no explanation..please note that I did not use Scooters name ....I am never ever above an apology..I am a human..R

I am not like anyone else -I can disagree and still love them very, very much....R

(Message edited by rachelengland on March 08, 2007)

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Rachelengland says,
"Smyna is loveable isn't he?"

I don't know about that but I do know he is Loved by the Lord.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

</font>}

[smyrna]

Fair enough, Rachel,

But really this is Skooter's issue. I just wanted him to know only a portion of his post was copied over to CB. I'm sure he will oblige and clarify his comments.

Skooter has been a student for quite sometime, and I am sure he knows that Jesus died for all that have been born of woman. The fallen angels as well as Satan are doomed as they will never repent. Salvation is open to all but them, as Jesus' death was their defeat.

Now it is my suggestion to you, that when Skooter does clarify, that you also copy and paste that in it's entirety over at the SC thread at CB. For if not, then it would not appear that you are sincere.

[rachelengland]

will do..I have no problem with that..in fact I will just do it now as I have much work on plate today and might not get back here again today...R

But I am still going to keep the part that says a shout out to Smyrna there..

And my hope to you is that you can walk in forgiveness(along with your sisters) and not bring up the matter again as so often happens here when one has admitted a mistake-their face is repeatedly rubbed in it..Take Care R

(Message edited by rachelengland on March 08, 2007)

[smyrna]

Once again, fair enough Rachel. I won't bring it up again.

But the reason we do bring things up again over here about what the CBer like Franklin and Godchild, they refuse to admit they have ever been wrong about anything.

You know it and I know it.

Franklin is a coward with a superiority complex, that is crystal clear to anyone that sees the evidence. And that is why I hammer him about the things he chooses to ignore, or create diversions in the vain hope that others won't see his "mistakes." They are more out and out lies than mistakes.

You did not offend me, Rachel. Skooter is the one who should be offended. But for what it is worth I am forgiving to anyone who offends me and asks for my forgiveness.

This is a subject that all Christians should be able to agree upon.

We know Jesus taught to forgive "seventy times seven" (Matt. 18:21)

[rachelengland]

Skooter- I apologize to you ...though I am not in the habit of using names and did not post your name on that thread-I did use your material if you wish that I remove it all together please let me know. I can ask an admin to do so, as I do not have the power to delete a post...R

(Message edited by rachelengland on March 08, 2007)

[oneway]

rachelengland,



you stated; "Skooter- I apologize to you ...though I am not in the habit of using names and did not post
your name on that thread-I did use your material if you wish that I remove it all together
please let me know. I can ask an admin to do so, as I do not have the power to delete a
post...R"


Keep in mind that some of these scers also copy and paste numerous threads from CB and other places. So, if it is ok for them to do so, then it should be ok for anyone to do likewise one would think. If it's written in plain view and not in private, then what are they accusing you of doing wrong?

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Oneway,

The difference is....we either post their posts in it's entirety OR we post an excerpt, a quote; but then post a link (or a location) to the post so as the reader can read for themselves what was exactly said.</font>

(Message edited by terluvire on March 08, 2007)

[oneway]

terluvire,


you stated: "Oneway,

The difference is....we either post their posts in it's entirety OR we post an excerpt, a
quote; but then post a link (or a location) to the post so as the reader can read for
themselves what was exactly said."


That makes sense and seems fair. I personally haven't posted anything but actual links to any offsite subject matter, so I wasn't sure what the rules were. But like I said, what you answered makes sense and seems fair. But I still don't feel rachel did anything out of malice or deceit.

[smyrna]

Ter,

Well put. Oneway doesn't think deeply enough, nor is he aware enough of this particular case, that Rachel did not give the name of the thread where Skooter's post could be read in its entirety.

In every case where I have quoted, or copied and pasted a post, I included the name of the thread at CB or even here, where one can go and read the entire post, if I did not paste the entire post in mine.

And even in this case, though I suspected that Rachel deliberately omitted a key portion of Skooter's post, I also considered that she may have misunderstood what Skooter was saying and decided not to post the rest of his comments.

In my original post to this issue, I said:
"...Either that, or Rachel has poor reading comprehension." (misunderstood)

That was a bit strong, I could have said: ..."Either that, or she just misunderstood what you were saying."

For that I apologize, Rachel.

[rachelengland]

Thank you..I did misunderstand, I thought he was talking about humans(kenites)-though I suppose they are half breeds and in my haste I posted incorrectly.

I thought I was being nice by omitting his name as I never want to embarass or single out other people especially if they can't or do not want to participate on a certain forum...R

(Message edited by rachelengland on March 08, 2007)

[oneway]

smyrna,


you stated: "Ter,

Well put. Oneway doesn't think deeply enough, nor is he aware enough of this particular
case, that Rachel did not give the name of the thread where Skooter's post could be read in
its entirety."


You scers are absolutely unforgiving of some of us, this is appearant. I even agreed with your (ter's)answer and you still shoot me down. I only stated that rachel obviously didn't do anything out of deceit or on purpose. I really feel the love in here, it's overwhelming.

[smyrna]

Ok Oneway,

I sincerely forgive you for your indiscretions.

I forgive you for going off the wall, and covering up Franklin and Godchild's cowardice by claiming they have "lost their patience" with me.

I forgive you for your arrogance, which allows you to judge what we believe to be anything less than a sincere attempt to understand God's Word.

I forgive you for your rigidity, which only allows for you to demand we believe exactly as you do, or you claim we are wrong and heretics.

I forgive you for your being a a co-conspirator in hypocrisy, for siding with Frankie and his gang, while some CBers speculate that satan does not exist, or accuse us of being heretics,racists and anti-semitic, accusations which they are too cowardly to even contact organizations with, that exist precisely to expose such cases.

Finally, I forgive you for your laziness, which causes you to post questions that have already been answered here on these threads many times,and I forgive you for deliberately ignoring that fact.

You feel the love, now, brother? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[skooter942000]

Yes, Rachel clearly twisted what i shared.
More to the POINT (did not share it all).



Here is the rest of what she left out,
- (On Purpose)? = GOD KNOWS. -(i don't)



satan "has not",
- (Nor "will not" - be BORN in this MANNER).

"HE" is sentenced to PERISH. (PERIOD)



If a SOUL is born into FLESH,
they can attain Salvation.
(*Certain rules do apply*)



Added:

And the PROTECTORS (Of the MERCY SEAT),
shall not be BORN of WOMAN. (ZOA)

The Fallen Angels shall not be BORN FROM ABOVE.
See The book of JUDE

(FATHER, "ALMIGHTY GOD" is very forgiving)

- No doubt they did not apologize. = Discernment






Thanks Rachel: (For sharing a HALF-FACT).

I started writing this (Then went back and saw
your apology).

So i erased some of this message.
- (But not all)



Anyone (BORN OF WOMAN), can find SALVATION.


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif - Happy?

Hmmmmmmm


GRACE
+
FAITH
+
WORKS
------------
= Salvation (of a FLESH BEING)


John 3:16 is just the starting point.



Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works, and glorify
your Father which is in heaven.


|
|
V


Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit
is dead, so faith without works is dead also.




Rachel

PLEASE FIX THIS: "ERROR"

(Post "THAT" WHOLE MESSAGE)
- On the site /(SIGHT).
- That will be FINE.
- or erase it TOTALLY.


- Your choice.
If anyone commented on it.
Then i would share it.

because allowing deception ,(is not CHRIST-LIKE)




Don <*))><

[oneway]

smyrna,



you stated; "I forgive you for your arrogance, which allows you to judge what we believe to be anything less than a sincere attempt to understand God's Word."


If I come off arrogant then I do apologize. I don't have an arrogant bone in my body. I am not the arrogant type. I do not doubt that you put forth a sincere attempt to understand scriptures.
I just feel that you are 100% wrong with the ss teaching. You really need to look at why you believe the ss teaching is true. Just look at all the different things that you have to come up with to make it work for you. First you scers claim that Eve had sex with satan, then you claim Adam did also. So then someone suggests that this would be homosexuality. So to get out of that, you scers then claim that satan can be in the form of a man or a woman. Where does it state in the scriptures that this is indeed how it happened? Where does it state that satan changed forms to sexually seduce and assault Adam and Eve? This is adding to scriptures. Of course I'm going to question this and challenge it.

you stated: "Finally, I forgive you for your laziness, which causes you to post questions that have
already been answered here on these threads many times,and I forgive you for deliberately
ignoring that fact."

Actually it's not called laziness. I have read pretty much of these topics that I post in before I post. Obviously, I was not satisfied with the answers that I saw, so I asked more questions. That's what anyone should do if they had doubts about what they read. I pretty much have an idea of what you believe but I don't understand why. And this is what I have been trying to understand from day 1---why.

I'm just trying to give you an idea of where I am coming from and why. You don't even have to reply to this post, I don't care. But I do appreciete the gesture at the end of your post, so here's right back at you. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[skooter942000]

From the Nameless Administrator:
- (At C.B. central)

So does this mean that a half satan half human cannot be born into the flesh, for if it includes the full entity then how on earth could a half satan entity be born of woman.
----------8< -- cut--------------------

Um, Kenites are FLESH BEINGS. PERIOD!!!


PERIOD
PERIOD
PERIOD

Always have been.

Never has any SC student said different,
- (To my Knowledge)


They are BORN of WOMAN after all.
Anyone BORN of WOMAN is FLESH!@!@!@!

- Get it.

/\
||
||

Rachel - (Since you started this)

- Return to sender:
- Just the above portion here.
(Follow the Arrow)


--------
--------------
-----------------------

Who is the Administrator there ,(Name please).

The people there post F-U-N-N-Y Notions.
Anyone notice this? - (or is it just me)?

House of Cards

better than a "Beth-avan"
HOUSE (of Jealousy_+_RUIN)




- a house divhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gifided will not Endure

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif - Rapture That!!!



Don <*))><

[rachelengland]

UMMMM Kenites as you claim are born of--------

SATAN+EVE

THERFORE = HAlF BREEDS

WHICH MUST -according to you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THEY COULD =ONLY be HALF saved...stupid theory

GET IT>>> YOU MAKE NO SENSE

#(have been proven wrong, by many)

YOUR PRIDE will cause




a fallhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

R...{*))^!!(trying not to take up as much band length as you RUDELY DO)

[rachelengland]

THE Administrator.** OF THE**

BEAUTIFUL***>>><<<< CB WEBSITE


----------^^^^---------

Has a NAME..don't be SO lazy

>>>><<<<<<<

^^^SEARCH 4 it urSELF^^^http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

[smyrna]

Oneway,

You are full of assumptions.

You wrote:"You really need to look at why you believe the ss teaching is true. Just look at all the different things that you have to come up with to make it work for you. First you SCers claim that Eve had sex with satan, then you claim Adam did also. So then someone suggests that this would be homosexuality. So to get out of that, you scers then claim that satan can be in the form of a man or a woman.

Where does it state in the scriptures that this is indeed how it happened? Where does it state that satan changed forms to sexually seduce and assault Adam and Eve? This is adding to scriptures."

Smyrna: You talk like I just adopted the SS teaching yesterday. First, I have looked at why I believe the SS doctrine to be true.

Personally, it's the evidence that the fallen angels had sex with women that is mentioned in many places in Scripture that convinces me that one does not have to make any quantum leap to believe that satan, himself a fallen angel, did the same.

Secondly, God instructed Eve specifically not to "touch " the tree, that word touch is a euphemism for sex, (Strong's Hebrew #5060)

Next, I don't "come up with" anything. That insinuates that I am making this all up. The SS doctrine has been around for a while, and the argument that "mainstream" Churches don't teach it so it must not be true is ludicrous.

That should be especially ludicrous to those who believe in a rapture, because NO mainstream denomination teaches a pre-trib, "I'm going to fly away" rapture.
Not the Catholic,Orthodox,Anglicans,Presbyterian, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.

No one has to "add" anything, either to the rapture doctrine or the SS doctrine. Because in both cases, it comes down to a matter of interpretation.

You say you have to "add" something to the text to claim Eve had sex with satan. Well, you would also have to claim that to say that satan was a snake, because it is clear to scholars at least, that in the text of Genesis, the usage is part of a figure of speech, a metaphor, an allegory, and not a literal snake.

You would have to add something to Genesis to claim that the fruit mentioned was an apple, like so many versions of the story claim. Yet you aren't accusing those who believe such versions, because once again you are favoring one over the
other, perhaps simply because it is the traditional version.

However, while the SS doctrine can be supported by accounts of the fallen angels in the book of Enoch,(not to mention clearly affirmed by Jude, II Peter 2, and of course Genesis 6) and other extraneous yet contemporaneous religious texts, the rapture doctrine finds no such collaborative material.

Then you wrote: "I have read pretty much of these topics that I post in before I post. Obviously, I was not satisfied with the answers that I saw, so I asked more questions."

You are not going to get different answers, unless the question entails speculation and personal opinions. And I have no problem with you or anyone else asking questions, unless those questions have already been asked and answered regarding specific issues.

If you indeed read many of the posts here, you'd realize we come across the same questions over and over again, and answer them the same way, over and over again, from the SAME people in many cases, over and over again.

They are either suffering from a poor memory, or they are playing the game of trying to wear us down,which won't work.

[smyrna]

Finally, many questions/claims of the Bible are still open to faith, like how miracles were accomplished. We believe they happened, or we don't. Just because we can't explain how something happened is no reason to not believe that it happened.

The detractors claim that because we can't describe in detail that would satisfy them that something occurred, like satan seducing Eve sexually, they won't believe it.

I wonder why they don't treat the taking up of Elijah,for instance, the same way. Unless, of course, they automatically believe that a burning chariot and horses made of fire appeared, and that Elijah was blown into the sky by a whirlwind.(II Kings 2:11)

Now what would you have to "add" to that, to make it understandable?

[smyrna]

Hey Rachel, still being the front person(loyal follower) for the cowards, huh?

The ADMIN at CB names himself that as the author of his posts, just like you use RLS. It is not immediately apparent what your name is, nor is it all that important, because it can be a fake name, for all we know.

Secondly, where do these people get the idea that
if satan had sex with Eve, the offspring would have to be categorized as "half human, half devil"?

Was Jesus half human, and half Holy Spirit? You MUST believe this, in order for you to stand by that failure in logic that the two cowards Frankie and whoever that clown that lists his name as "Admin" claim.

Now before you go running off claiming I am a heretic, what I am saying is that if you describe the impregnation of Eve by a supernatural being called satan,then you must also treat the impregnation of Mary by the Holy Spirit the same way.

Jesus was indwelt by the Holy Spirit, he wasn't half and half.

Cain was indwelt by evil, so much so he could not even be counted among the descendants of Adam, it was even in his genes.

Frankie and Admin are stupid, and you are pandering to their stupidity and cowardice by sticking up for them. Where are they? In their "comfort zone", where no one can challenge their ridiculous rants.

Maybe we should refer to CB as CZ.

(Message edited by smyrna on March 09, 2007)

[smyrna]

I won't even wait for Rachel to reply. I pretty much expect it would be: But you all don't claim the Holy Spririt turned into a man and impregnated Mary, so you can't compare the two?

The problem with that is, you don't have to.

The question is why the two cowards at CB find themselves insinuating by asking a rhetorical question, how can there be a half human half devil if Cain was the son of Satan and Eve?

How Eve became pregnant vs how Mary became pregnant is not at issue. It was a comparison on the way Frankie and Admin describes one vs how they would describe the other.

The subject is their respective offspring. Cain was not some half human, half devil man, anymore than Jesus was half human, half Holy spirit.

The Holy Spirit inhabited the flesh body of Christ. Frankie and Admin can't tell the difference between flesh and spirit.

Are they ready to claim that Cain had the Holy Spirit in him? Was Cain automtically a sinner, because his parents were?

According to conventional theology, he had a sinful nature, as did Seth. How about Abel, was he a sinner? According to conventional theology, the answer would be yes.

The difference is that Cain's entire bloodline was intentionally kept apart from Adam's, and the detractors have absolutely no logical reason to offer why, if they continue to deny that Satan was Cain's father.

They have no reason to explain why Cain's offering to God was rejected BEFORE he killed Abel.

They have no reason to offer why there is even a term Kenite, which is directly tied to Cain, if everyone is from Adam. Scripture does not have a term called "Sethites" or "Adamites", only Kenites, "sons of Cain". Why?

[smyrna]

I see Godchild is back over at CB. She can't post anything without lying. Her reference to Factnet today was something like: "I see the hate mail is still going on at Factnet."

These people have a very strange vocabulary.

All we do here is point out their lies, trickery, hypocccrisy, and demand proof for all their wild accusations, and that to them equates to "hate" or "attacks".

I don't hate anyone. I do hate the actions of people who can't seem to get around to facing issues like adults, instead of running and hiding whenever they are challenged.

Frankie hasn't been here since I demanded he write any national group and tell them of the same charges he tells us about, charges of racism and anti-semitism on behalf of the SC. He won't, he knows he won't, he's a coward and is too fearful they will not agree with him.

I point out that he is a hypocrite, for not challenging those folks on his CB site, including Godchild, that engage in discussions that speculate that Moses didn't write the Torah, that satan really doesn't exist but was an invention, a concept, and that God gives out evil instructions.

He is too cowardly to even do that, but had we had those discussions, him and Godchild would have been ranting and raving over here, about how we are heretical unbelievers.

Hypocrites, they know it too.

[skooter942000]

Of Kenites , (Sick of talking of these)

- Who said they are HALF SAVED?


- i never did. (Who said this)

- LINK ME TO IT!!!!




Sweetie - (RACHEL)

- Don't Insinuate!!!

- Abandon that SHIP.



And i cannot find a name for the ADMIN.

'i' have looked dear

What it is, (So i can pray for him/her).

he/she is certainly (Confused).


- i can tell

Do you guys and gals believe satan
wears a red suit and has a big red tail?
- (And carries a pitchfork)?




http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


A flesh entity is just that.
Anyone BORN of WOMAN - (is not Angelic).


CHRIST "is" The SON OF GOD.

Was HE NOT 100% Flesh?




- Ahhhh, the Wisdom of 'men'.



Still noticed you did not share the answer there
yet (Can i ask why)?

- You stared this, (So finish it)!!!


You people are a bunch of hecklers.
- Nothing more.

You actually MOCK GOD by serving satan.

- Do you have a GALACTIC TROPHY for this?
- One with a Pitchfork?


(http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif)



Don <*))><

[smyrna]

Stardate One Update

The cowardly crew, having been defeated here at Factnet, continue to stroke themselves over at Cultbusters. I'm surprised they haven't done this before, carrying on without the trouble of actually having to defend their false accusations about what the SC teaches.

They are on the run, reduced to staying on their own website, with their overinflated claims of page views. They actually think people are coming there in droves to read their playground nonsense.

Next time you go there (here's a link for your convenience) take a look at the statistics. Never can you see more than twenty or so people there on any given day. The record is 54.

I'd be willing to bet that those twenty or so people are the same people coming back over and over. I know I go there a few times a day and monitor a few pages, so just myself, looking for stuff to poke fun of, adds probably a couple of hundred page views a month.

And I know I'm not the only SC student to do this, so they can write off about almost a thousand or so page views a month just to us.

There is of course the repeat visits by the space crew themselves. Frankie tried to lie and tell us their views aren't logged, but we caught him lying about that.

[preachers_daughter]

Smyrna, what in the world are you talking about?

Do you not realize that MANY "guests", like yourself, visit that sight every day.

I could not tell you how many times I have been there reading, and there have been umpteen (yes that's a real number) guests there, with half or more reading Star Date and The Captains Lounge. Now, look at that over the course of twenty four hours and what do you get. A heck of alot of views. You still sound jealous, to me.

Like I said before...you really must love Franklin...I mean the way you talk about him all the time. You really need to quit being so obsessed with him.

Hey...but you obsession is great advertisement. People are going to CB in record numbers now.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[smyrna]

Preachers_daughter,
That's my point. You all contradict yourselves. You say "People are going to CB in record numbers now." The stats there do not reflect that claim.

But at the same time, in the same post, you say "Do you not realize that MANY "guests", like yourself, visit that sight every day."

I know how many, like the average is 20-25. And that ain't too many. I did the math for you.
You have had one new member in the last month one per month, and we'll see if that even holds. That's twelve per year.
I've already worked the page views out for you, like what, five per day?
Read your own stats, you do the math. I open a window and stay on one page all day, I suppose many people do, but only really read for a few minutes.

Besides that, what are you really doing? Frankie claims he is fighting cults, giving people "courage." How so?

I'm not jealous at all. Of what, playing childish space games, and claiming that is fighting real cults? Give me a break.
How can cowards give people courage?
I am not "obsessed with Frankie." I think I've already proved he is a coward, hypocrite, liar, etc. I just have great fun showing it.

You go back and read the threads at CB. How many pages of that site is dominated by comments about the SC? You want me to count for you? That way I can add some more page views to your already artificially inflated statistics.

You call me openly proving CBers are liars, hypocrites and cowards is "great advertisement?

Maybe McDonald's will hire me, hoping a offer them "great advertisement", like telling the customers that their burgers don't look like their commercial renditions of them, they are really lousy, rotten meat, etc.

You people are really funny. All those posts all those hours of foolishness, and not one cult member from any cult has even credited the folks at Star Date One or the Captain's Lounge with "saving" them from any cult.

Because if there ever was, I'm sure you people would have trumpeted it all over the Internet.

Instead, all you have are artificial site statistics. What a pity.

[preachers_daughter]

Oh, smyrna, smryna, smyrna.

Do you sit day and night at your computer watching the users online. If not...then maybe you should. Then, you wouldn't be putting your foot in your mouth so frequently.

20-25 at any given moment. Now, do that multiple times throughout the day.

Cowards? Please. A coward is someone who has nothing better to do then follow someone around, and try to belittle them. Nice try, but it isn't working. You are just showing that you do not know what you are talking about.

Oh...but I do believe you are jealous. Jealous of the fact that, in your defence of AM, you set up a web page that hardly anyone ever visits. Yet, Franklin started a story line to show the lies that AM teaches, and people are reading it night and day.

Stats don't lie, smyrna. Or do they? Yours seems to. You claim that you aren't getting the measly views that your site counter says. You claim that you get many more, and come up with an outlandish excuse as to why the counter isn't correct. You claim more than is shown, on your site...franklin claims exactly what is shown on CB. Who is telling lies? Hmm...open wide...insert foot.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

[smyrna]

P-D,

Your post makes no sense. It doesn't take me all day to read your site's statistics. The stats have not changed much all day:

Users: 1
Guests: 19
Total: 20

I broke down the number of page views for you. 30,000 over the course of 270 days. The more people you claim visited the site, the fewer number of page views they could have made,
for example:
30,000 views divided by 270 days divided by 22 people = 5

30,000 views divided by 270 days divided by 54 (record number of people that were online at the site on any given day)= 2

Funny how you left out any referral to the FACT CB has only one new member in the last month, and only 162 total, and how many of them play animal and space roles? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

My site isn't at issue. I haven't ever promoted it, nor have I updated it, nor do I brag about the number of hits, because I know how ridiculous that is, because hits do not offer any indication of how people react to the material presented, which is what is most important.

That is why it isn't possible for me to be jealous of CB's role playing threads.

You want to focus on your page views,my focus is how many people come there to look at the ridiculousness of it all.

It must be remembered that Chapel students come there to read all the nonsense going on, more than are here at Factnet, since I have mentioned CB on some SC groups. Of course, they aren't going there because they are fans of you and Frankie's space game.

You focus on site stats, celebrate them as some type of milestone, yet can't show how any of you have done any real cultbusting.

There is nothing outlandish with pointing out these facts.

You wrote: "You claim that you get many more.." (hits, page views?) You claim more than is shown, on your site."

Where have I said this? Show me where I said my site gets more hits or page views. I don't care at this point, because it is outdated, I don't really care who sees it or not right now.

It is not an active site. I can and will change that when I can update it with frequency, which I have not chosen to do.

I run another site, a Catholic site with six hundred members, a moderator staff of five, and two web sites attached to the forum, with a third site on the way. It is part of the organization I founded, and that takes much more time than this piddling around with FN and CB. That is just for entertainment.

The Catholic site is serious business.

I haven't had the time to update Scripture truth., I've done much collecting of material here, and I'm gratified that you are apparently so anxious to see an increase in the hits I get.

Because believe me, when I get it updated with the BS that Frankie, and so many other CBers have dumped here for so many months, you won't be so happy about seeing the new pages on the site.

You wrote; "Cowards? Please. A coward is someone who has nothing better to do then follow someone around, and try to belittle them."

Funny, my dictionary says:

The noun coward has one meaning:

Meaning #1: a person who shows fear or timidity

The adjective coward has one meaning:

Meaning #1: lacking courage; ignobly timid and faint-hearted
Synonyms: cowardly, fearful

I have shown with great detail why Franklin is a coward, and the same goes for "illogical_al" and Gavin.

I don't have to "belittle people." That they do to themselves, because if they did not show fear, like they clearly do, I would have no proof they are cowards.

Yet the proof is right here on these threads.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Pathah dabar kircem mow`ed.


</font>}

[smyrna]

Clever Munsun, but you should use real Hebrew characters.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[skooter942000]

<font color="119911"><font size="+2">To Rachel england</font></font>

Are you going to share on your
(Cough cough) 'Beautiful Site'(choke Choke)
what i shared here.

- In reply?


If you are going to take from here,
then post it there.

FINISH WHAT YOU START.
Or do not take my words (And share them there).



Afraid to?




PS

Still no link,

Who said anyone is half saved?

What SC Student


In other words (Accuse us openly)

- Thanks http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Oh that's right (Those are your WORDS).
- Not OURS.

That's why they appear to be a stupid Theory,
= (your wording).



Anyone (BORN OF WOMAN), can find SALVATION.
Kenites are Flesh Entities, (Just like you and i)


CHRIST was not HALF ANGELIC and HALF FLESH.





About Creation:

We are created in the Image of GOD and HIS ANGELIC CHILDREN. (T/F)?


They wear clothes
They EAT FOOD
They carry SWORDS
They Have the same BODY PARTS...
Same Image and Likeness



In Gen 6
They took women to BED , and mated with them.
- children came forth from this act.

Anyone with a third grade reading skill
should see this.....(right)?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


[BUT]
- satan did it first. (In the GARDEN)


In John 8 CHRIST explains satan has Progeny.

<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">YES, satan has Actual Progeny!!!!
</font></font>


We have proved this time and time again.

You do not believe it , - (So what)!!!

Does not mean we are in a cult.
You still cannot prove this.



CULTS think for you.
Just ask Franklin.
- Your CULT LEADER http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


Yes, [CB is a CULT]
- You do have someone you asnwer to right?

You guys pick and choose who can be a member.
- That is cultic.


- Anyone can JOIN SC http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

- (As GOD Allows)


[Quote From skooter942000]
Satan "has not",
- (Nor "will not" - be BORN in this MANNER).

"HE" is sentenced to PERISH. (PERIOD)



From CB Admin

So does this mean that a half satan half human cannot be born into the flesh, for if it includes the full entity then how on earth could a half satan entity be born of woman.

[...cut]


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif



- Ah, the joy of sharing...

-Yes, beware of CULTS who think for you.

[skooter942000]

RE; From Rachel

YOUR PRIDE will cause




a fall http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

R...{*))^!!(trying not to take up as much band length as you RUDELY DO)

--------
-------------------
-------------------------------

- Rachel your a 'hoot'.

we should pay you for the smiles we receive
from your messages.



The checks in the MAIL ,
- (or is it MALE)?


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[smyrna]

Forget it, Skooter;

They (Cbers) have been reduced to just staying in their own cyber-enclave. And when they do come here, they refuse to address issues that were raised before, which they would not address, and caused them to retreat over to CB.

That is their game. That is why they are cowards.

Franklin Gavin will never answer why he gives people like illogical_al a pass, never challenging him, after he posted material on CB that denied satan's existence, sided with the documentary hypothesis that claims Moses did not write the Torah, and that God hands out evil instructions.

He gave Godchild a pass as well, since she agreed with illogical_al.

Then there is all the hypocrisy. He will never explain why he recommends websites that are full of theories about the Bible, yet at the same time claims he only listens to God's Word.

And of course, he I am sure will not have much to say about how he copies stuff from other websites, and acts like he wrote it.

Thankfully, not many people pay attention to the CB site. Today they have has 30 visitors, (including me going there about five times) and their latest member calls him/herself "little chick" and is probably Franklin Gavin pretending they are actually getting new members.

That scam won't last that long. It's fun watching us control Franklin Gavin by remote control.

I made mention that he hasn't even visited his own silly little animal game,(The Sky Is Falling!) and all of a sudden, there he is posting there, only the third time since December 4th!

And who does he address his post to? The "new" member, "Little Chick." It's kind of like Franklin Gavin wants us to know there is a "new" member, after I also pointed out that there was no new members in almost a month.

Finally, it seems the "new" word over there is Duh, followed by !?!, since we exposed that Gavin is Franklin, since both of their posts included that precise punctuation.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Smyrna,

Quote:
Thankfully, not many people pay attention to the CB site. Today they have has 30 visitors, (including me going there about five times)

Include me in that count also. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Quote:
Finally, it seems the "new" word over there is Duh, followed by !?!, since we exposed that Gavin is Franklin, since both of their posts included that precise punctuation.

I've noticed that also...lol</font>

[smyrna]

Ter,

Yeah, I don't think Franklin Gavin is going to be bragging about his page views that much anymore,since we pointed out that not only do we from FN go there, but other Chapel oriented groups have people going there too.

In a way, CB is turning into the Chapel students' online comedy club!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to go over to the SC groups now, and see if I can do some more "promoting" of CB's pertinent threads!

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Smyrna,

I know a few SC students, outside of our group here, which read at CB. They find it very entertaining..lol</font>

[smyrna]

EXTRA!

Frankie is "Little Chick" at the CB The Sky Is Falling Thread!

In my post 2004 above, I mentioned my suspicion that Frankie is CB's newest member, "Little Chick"

Well, tonight he gave himself away, by posting a poem there that reads just like his "songs" on Star Date One!

He IS being controlled, and he doesn't even believe it!

Hey Frankie, resistance is futile!

You WILL be assimilated!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

DUH!?!

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Smyrna,
"Clever Munsun, but you should use real Hebrew characters."
---
I thought about it but it would have less impact.
Did you interprit them?

I don't think very many folks know what I stated.
Care to let them in on it?

Pathah:silly.


</font>}

[skooter942000]

<font color="0000ff">Deu 32:30
How should one chase a thousand,
and two put ten thousand to flight,
except their Rock had sold them,
and the LORD had shut them up? </font>

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Psalm 91:1-16.


God is good.

</font>}

[smyrna]

Anyone reading this thread will quickly realize that the Cultbusters.com.au poster here, which is Franklin, is indeed a coward who refuses to face any challenges made to prove his allegations. He just disappears for a while.

I am highlighting this thread and others, which shows they run and hide, because if you check the dates,(March 5th) you will see he has not posted at this thread since being challenged, and refuses to address the issues raised.

[godchild]

smyrna really is a nut, thinking we "HAVE TO" respond to his nonsense. We figure if we ignore him, he'll go away, but he never does, but in fact comes here first thing in the morning til last thing at nite. Get a job! Get a life! Get a Bible! Join toastmasters! Take a cooking class! Have a prayer meeting! Do something, poor man. Time's awastin!!

[smyrna]

Godchild you see, writes off any challenges to their false accusations, calling them nonsense. I don't know what planet she's from, but here on earth people are expected to show proof of allegations.

The real nut here is the one who refuses to back up any of her nonsensical, made up out of thin air claims and allegations.

Since we are sifting through the posts, I'll have a list of accusations Godchild and Franklin have made and the other CBers, that they have yet to provide any documentable proof of.

She can heckle all she wants, but that will NOT take away from the fact this is yet another attempt at dodging thse issues. She also fails to acknowledge that yes, the can ignore my posts, but these people have completely disappeared for WEEKS, and it's NOT because they didn't have anymore heckling or other garbage to post here.

The fact is, they are cowards who think our attention to their failure to back up their allegations, or address other issues will wane just because they did a disappearing act.

I guess we can agree that Godchild and the others involved with denying satan's existence, or who "actually" wrote the Torah, can refer to that as nonsense, but the question remains why they are doing that in the first place?

Talking about jobs, maybe it is Godchild who is lying, unless she is goofing off on the job today. I happen to be on the night shift so I have ALL DAY to write here if I wish.(though I'm going fishing soon)

I wish I was so wealthy I didn't need a job, so Godchild, please hope and pray I get wealthy enough so I can come here and continue to show your lies and YOUR nonsense.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

(Message edited by smyrna on March 28, 2007)

[godchild]

Laptops are great to have when you're waiting to meet with a client. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

I'm afraid smearna would have to get a better job and stop sending his money to people like am, who I'm sure laughs all the way to the bank in glee, to buy stock in our company. I won't even embarass him by saying how much they are. My guess is it would take his paycheck for one.
It's a beautiful day, isn't it. Everything is blooming like crazy here. I love it!

[smyrna]

Godchild wrote,

"Laptops are great to have when you're waiting to meet with a client."

Smyrna: If you are waiting for a client, that is even a better reason to sell our stock in that company.

Anyway, Godchild wrote this on the SC thread at CB:"My sister-in-law is catholic and has been all her life. I'm going to email her and see how she responds to the false doctrines of am/sc. Most people of different denominations have never even heard of it (I didn't til I saw it at factnet..."

Maybe you can also ask her if she beleives that satan does not exists, or if she believes Mary was a Virgin when she gave bitrh to Jesus, as you clearly cast doubt on the subject.

Maybe you can also tell her you are involved in a discussion where you agreed that it is quite possible satan does not exist, and that Moses had nothing to do with writing the Torah, even though the Bible clearly states he did.

Finally, ask her if she believes in the rapture, which 90% of Christianity does NOT, and ask her why the Pope doesn't step down and let Hal Lindsey or some other Rapture Rider take his place, since so many of your pals adhere to the 'fly-away' doctrine.

Then you can come back here and resume your idiotic tirade, which is the only thing really blooming where you are at.

[smyrna]

Here is a partial list of beliefs held IN COMMON by more than 90% of Christianity, that Godchild (Vivian Hadden)either by direct denial, sarcastic references to, refusals to practice, or engage and agree during discussions with unbelievers:

(Note: there are posts written by her either here at Factnet or at Cultbusters.com.au that offer proof that this list is accurate)

She denies outright or openly doubts the following:

1. That Satan and the Serpent in Genesis are the
same entity.

2. That the "Old Dragon" in Revelation also is the Serpent of Genesis

3. That Jesus exorcised demons and instructed His disciples to do the same in His Name.

4. That the Church also has power over Satan and his fallen angels.

5. That satan even exists.

6. The Virgin Birth

7. That the stars and other luminaries in the heavens were meant to be signs, as Genesis clearly states.

8. That Moses wrote the Torah

9. That Communion must be practiced to honor the memory of Jesus on earth, as HE commanded.

10. That public worship is mandatory as part of the body of Christ, (His Church)and that Jesus expected us to gather in His name, which is a carry over of the Law that mandated days of assembly in the Synagogues which Jesus observed Himself.
This also ties in with His command to do this gather together and partake of the bread and wine in His memory.

All these doubts and unbelief, yet she calls people "un-Christian" and "heretics." Go figure.

She denies these things and more. Her answer will probably be something (if she doesn't just ignore this and retreat back to CB)like a list of things she disagrees with the SC,that she calls disbelief or whatever. But the subject in this case is HER, not US.

Remember, I am collecting posts that show all of these things are true.

[godchild]

-----------
Why are these people hiding their faces? Fear of being laughed at face to face, (christen and angie)? Tch, tch, terlu.
No courage? Are you feeling a little foolish now? You should, my dears. Children will play; and fools will watch.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/terluvire/SC/Shepherdschapel.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/terluvire/SC/SCinfrontofthechurch.jpg

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

[smyrna]

Vivian Hetherton Hadden

I'll tell you why. Because you already proved why.

Even though you can't see their faces, you are already attacking their appearance, what you can tell from the photos:

Link to this message

godchild
Senior Member
Username: godchild

Post Number: 4672
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.182.235.68

Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 1:42 am:
It must have been angie hiding in the photo;

*** the fat one on the right.***

Otherwise she'd have been saying, "godchild is wrong. It wasn't abi on the right, ha-ha. It was me." You know, you are one cold bich!


ANGIE,

As you can see, you were very smart to hide what your identity, and appearances of those who held up the signs.

As we see, it is just killing Godchild (love it! She keeps bringing it up) that she can't see more, so she can make childish, stupid and silly comments about someone's personal appearance to try and hurt someone's feelings.

Some Christian holy roller, huh?

Just like when she posted she saw Pastor Murray on the SC prgram, and said he looked like a pig, and she even posted: "oink oink, no wonder he doesn't eat pork."

With people like her here, why would anyone post their photo?

-----------------------------------

Who cares if am/sc has a church building? I think smyrna is lying about it."- Godchild

"...whose ministry *****is not held in any building****...." -Godchild


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/terluvire/SC/Shepherdschapel.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/terluvire/SC/SCinfrontofthechurch.jpg

Funny, in a sick kind of way, huh, Godchild and Rachel? Stick around for more, I know you will!

"Unless we enjoy that sick kind of humor, ***we can ignore him from now on."***