Smearnoff Is Finished

[franklin]

Stop being so obsessed with me Smearnoff. Are you stalking me? Should I report you to the internet police? File a stalking charge? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

First of all, this has been an ongoing running friendly gag between ihs and myself for the last 6 months. You can read these jokes between ourselves on threads throughout factnet. Neither one of us are offended and we enjoy jabbing each other. An atheist and a Christian having fun. What's the big deal?

This time it was started by ihs, who is not homophobic and it was replied to by Franklin, who is not homophobic.

As usual smearnoff is down to his usual character assassination attempts and mudslinging that always makes him look the fool and shows his true nasty lack of character.

Smearnoff is trying to take the focus of of his nutcase, racist cult leader, Arnold Murray, and trying to put the focus on yours truly, franklin.

And so far as the slanderous charge of me using cultbusters as a way to pick up women that is erroneous slander that is baseless and without foundation. If that is continued then we will examine some of the serpent seeder women and their foibles.

So SMEARNOFF IS FINISHED and has no credibility on factnet or the internet whatsoever no more!

[franklin]

You should know all about heresy since that is all you spout angie!

The word of faithers are heretics because they believe they are little gods. That just through their words and prayers they can command anything to be delivered to them whether it is God's will or not. Is that what you believe? Doesn't that sound like witchcraft to you? I know what the bible says and I know how it is taken out of context, emphasised, twisted and perverted to create this whole new New Age, "we are gods" religion that is not Christian.

I know you have a twisted view of the Bible but if you can not see the danger and heresy of the word of faith movement then you are under satan's heel worse than I had ever imagined.

As long as my detractors are atheists, serpent seeders and word of faithers then I will always know that I am on Christ's true path that He wants us to follow. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[jimito]

Frank, I like your style! fight fire with fire I say! You know when people are playing games. These people and are as screwed up as the philosophies they believe. It seems they enjoy following you around. Lucky you buddy. I'm not much of a trekkie but I know there are better ways to pick up girlshttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif. I also know girls don't like snakes very much so I there goes that theory.

[smyrna]

Just like I predicted, Frankie will not admit he is wrong. So I guess it is ok for a Christian man to talk about another Christian brother, or anyone else, for that matter, performing a sex act on a monkey.

Typical, and also predictable, is his attempt to divert attention from this gross offense by talking about character assassination and insults.

Is your "true path" one that allows talking about sex acts with male monkeys, Frankie?

I'm not anymore obsessed with your clownish behavior than you are with Genesis 4:1.

You once again have exposed yourself as a hypocrite, Frankie. I still don't even believe you are just one person. It's hard for me to believe just one person could have so many different angles: Capt. Franklin, Foxy Loxy, just plain Franklin,and whoever else you are playing this week.

But the fact remains, all my predictions about your response to your sick "joke" has come true. No apology, no repentance, and of course your only defense, if you want to call it that, is that it is ok for you to do this because everyone else does it too.

However, the only person other than you who actually made some sicko remark about homosexual sex acts or acts on animals was Balaam, who had the dignity and manhood to admit he was way over the top.

As for you, you have no dignity, no conscience,and don't care what others think about your sick comments.

If it is some "inside" joke between you and IHS, then keep it between yourselves. Not everyone shares your perverted sense of humor.

[franklin]

Hey smearnoff!

Is it your "true path" one that allows talking about sex acts with serpents and demons? The first man and woman created by God. Humanity's original ancestors and you besmirch their honor and reputations by claiming that Eve had sex with a serpent or a demon and that Adam did too? Making Adam the first homosexual?

Can't you see what a heretic and hypocrite you are?

If your perverted religious beliefs are some "inside" joke between you and your fellow serpent seeders, then keep it between yourselves. Not everyone shares your perverted sense of humor.

[jimito]

Frank, I only come to factnet for the most part to read and this is a tactic this group uses many times. I just read on another thread here where this smyrna accussed arron of being in bed with the detractors these are some sick bastards man.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Well I see these people do not understand figures of speech.

Jimito, didn't you ever hear of the term "bed fellows"?</font>

(Message edited by terluvire on January 06, 2007)

[angie0401]

jimito
Member
Username: jimito

Post Number: 58
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 64.108.73.98
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 1:29 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank, I only come to factnet for the most part to read and this is a tactic this group uses many times. I just read on another thread here where this smyrna accussed arron of being in bed with the detractors these are some sick bastards man.

Have you heard of a figure of speech? I see why you "admire" franklin now...

[franklin]

Then why are you so blinded when bible verses uses figurative explanations. Like Genesis 3:16. You twist that to mean in some goofy way that Eve had sex with a serpent?????? That is sick!

Genesis 4:1 clearly says that Cain is the son of both Adam and Eve. Eve is not into beastianality and Adam is NOT a homosexual!

[wayfaring_stranger]

Smryna,

In all fairness to Franklin, I think just about everyone that has participated with him on CB has known Franklin before CB so it is indeed slander against both Franklin and CB to indicate that Franklin started his threads over there to pick up women.

[smyrna]

Hey Frankie, we aren't talking about Genesis. We are talking about YOU accusing a man engaging in a sex act with a male orangutan.

Your "figurative" "joke" is sick and disgusting, and you don't even have the class to admit it.

Even Balaam, for all his ranting and raving, apologized, and said his comment was not in good taste and even left Factnet in a state of contrition.

But not you, Frankie, the spaceman who is never wrong. You have never admitted you were wrong about anything, despite the evidence.

You tell us SC folks we shouldn't listen to a man's interpretation of Scripture, but YOU reference the onehumanrace.com website, which is exactly that.


You said you "didn't know" if the SC was a racist group or not, yet on the same day you called us racists at Cultbusters.

You rant and rave that people try to assassinate your character, while at the same time you yourself call people every name in the book, despite their objections, despite their evidence, and despite almost everyone else's own opinions and facts.


If someone tells you they are not a racist, you still accuse them of being so.

That's not debate, that's just being a goofball.

The Bible CLEARLY mentions in many locations, Unicorns. No where does it say that Unicorns are mythical creatures. So, do you, or do you not believe that Unicorns never existed?

[smyrna]

W-S,

I never said that it was his original intention, to start threads with that specific intention in mind. I did say that he did use those boards for that purpose, and that is based upon the women who witnessed it.

And quit tossing the word slander around, because it's stupid.

You can't slander anyone unless their real identities are known, and I don't even think Franklin is one person. He's probably an invention of CB, because I seriously doubt one person can have that many things wrong with him.

[wayfaring_stranger]

Well know one can fully know another person's intentions and it could just be a misunderstanding. I am the one that you are basing this accusation's experience on. It was my perception at the time. Still it was just my perception.

Franklin was interested in me as a person. Wyoming has also been interested in me as a person. I perceived Wyoming one way and Franklin another way and I could have been wrong. Some people really want to get to know people just to get to know them.

(Message edited by Wayfaring Stranger on January 06, 2007)

[franklin]

And where are the women who witnessed it?

And what about the serpent seeder women who really use these boards to pick up guys? That is documented.

Give it up. When you attack people's character you are slandering people period!

Eve did NOT have sex with a serpent or a demon! And Adam is not a homosexual!

[smyrna]

Calm down Frankie, and remember, the focus is not your shenanigans on CB, but your comment on Factnet, the one one where you insinuated that Ihavesinned has male to male sex with an orangutan.

I'm not attacking your character, Frankie. I'm merely pointing out the type of character you are.

[angie0401]

franklin said:
And what about the serpent seeder women who really use these boards to pick up guys? That is documented.

Ok - where is the documentation?

[smyrna]

Angie, Good going! Let's see this documentation Frankie. Put up or shut up. Of course, we have plenty of documentation that exposes you as a liar, pervert, false accuser, hypocrite, and clearly one with some major 'issues.'

So let's see the documentation of "serpent seeder women who really use these boards to pick up guys."

Or should we just add this to your ever expanding catalog of false accusations?

No crying about us beating up on you. Just give us what you say you have.

[sharon]

This is hilarious. Franklin you did not mention all the humor over on these boards. Well except for that one board the rest are quite humorous. Been hogging it all up for yourself have you? No wonder you like it here. Woman talking about sex all the time! Must make our board look boring and dull.
My feelings are kind of hurt, I hear you are a real ladies man and yet you have been nothing but honorable to me, not even an wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Well how rude!
Is this a place where those suffering from cults come to heal? I did not think so. Still no mention of Jesus!

[smyrna]

Now Sharon is diverting attention from the focus here. There is no "woman talking about sex all the time." No, what there is, is a few people waiting for Frankie to document that "serpent seeder women" are using Factnet to pick up men.

Sharon is right about something. There is plenty of humor here,all at the expense of the latest space mission to "Yarrum."

[franklin]

It does get pretty wild here. Eve having sex with snakes. With the devil. Adam having sex with satan! beastanality, homosexuality, adultery, satan worshipping..... just for starters. Seems these serpent seeders have an obsession with SEX! Might make the bible's Garden of Eden more interesting, naughtier, spicier....

But none of it is true.

They want to turn the Bible into a porno novel but we won't let them. That's why they are so hateful and angry toward us! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[smyrna]

Jesus is not the focus of this particular discussion. But of course Sharon gives us another moment in the life of a hypocrite. Six out of seven posts by the space crew did not mention Jesus, but only the SC people are guilty. This thread is not about Jesus, it's about Frankie "attacking" me. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[franklin]

The focus of all discussions, of all endeavors by Christians is JESUS!

Christ is our Master. The example we are to live by!

Live by His example!

[gone_to_pa]

Hey Franklin,

Long time. I see you havew made some new friends since last time like this person Smearer, who loves to twist the Word and use Smear tactics where he/she can. You know what boggles the mind? That they have something to say to you about a monkey having sex with a humnan which is taught pretty much so in all the schools accross America. It's called Evolution I believe. Now here is the part that kills me. They take an turn Eve, the mother of all of us and turn her into some pervert who's into beast-e-ality. Had to spell it like that some it would post. The mother of the human race is a perv to them. How frekin sick, but then what do you expect from people who love a man A/M with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength. To bad it's not like 1245 or 1246 during the inquisition period ( dates might be wrong but you get the idea) years ago, they would have been taken out and burned at the stake for heresy. AHHH the good old days! Now they can take God's first created woman and turn into into someone who get's into animals sexually. Was Adam there too? He was there when she partook of the fruit of the tree, so it would only make sense that he was present for this sexual escapade by the woman whom God gave him. If Adam was there, did he join in, was it a threesome you sick perverted bunch of Murryites. Tell us how you exegeted that out of the Scriptures. If you have Eve turning into a pervert who is into beast-e-ality, then is it such a far stretch that Adam was Bi?

We who are Christians know that is as far from the truth as Arnie's Serpent with Eve doctrine. Did you know the definition for a cult is anyone who steers clear of the Doctrines of the Church fathers and invents their own. All the church fathers got it wrong, but A/M got it right? You know why we don't trust the Koran? Do you know the same reason we don't trust Joseph Smith? Because both of them say they have a lock on the truth and everyone else who has gone before them is wrong. Arnold does the same thing, only he calls people names and belittles those who don't agree with him telling them to wake up. Yea, wake up to the doctrines of demons. Smearer, you, Washerman and the rest have turned something holy and precious into dog ****e. Your wonderful Pastor-Teacher will stand before God at the White Throne, and we will here him say, Oh' Lord didn't I do many wonderful things in your names, and A/M will hear these words, "depart from me, you that work iniquity, I never knew you, because you never knew me" You missguided and misled many and know will be your just reward. Arnie better practice up and the backstroke along with you two teachers of doctrines of demons. Just use what little brain you have left and ask yourself, if Eve had sex outside of who God had created her for, why isn't it written about in the Scriptures? Don't give me that beguiled bunk, I already refuted that in another thread.
Sharon, I love you and as always your words are like a fountain of refreshment. Sometimes I don't like what you say, but that is only because the flesh doesn't want to hear about itself. But as soon as I "TUNE IN" to the spirit, then I can easily receive from you. You are an awesome sister in the Lord. You know the lips of the righteous feed many; I wonder who is fed by making Eve some sort of prevert? GTP
Again Franklin Happy New Year

[franklin]

Happy New Year GTP! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[smyrna]

You know, Gone to PA, I thought you were a standup guy. But apparently you are returning to your old ways, which mirror that of your old Cultbusters buddies.

Now you've been around long enough to know that we (SC) don't ever teach or believe that Eve had sex with a snake. But there you go, accusing us of doing so. You know that is a lie, but you do it anyway.

And let me tell you this: You wrote: "Did you know the definition for a cult is anyone who steers clear of the Doctrines of the Church fathers and invents their own."

You have just indicted all of Protestantism, which includes yourself, unless you want to tell us you are Catholic.

[smyrna]

Another thing, Gone to PA.

You wrote: "That they have something to say to you about a monkey having sex with a human which is taught pretty much so in all the schools across America."

Have you been hitting the bottle this evening? I've never heard evolution described in such a way. And Frankie wasn't teaching your explanation of evolution when he talked about Ihavesinned having male on male sex with an orangutan.

As for evolution, since you and Frankie insist that we all came from just one couple, you have to believe in evolution, or Franklin's divine oracle called onehumanrace.com which states that the races are the result of "genetic mistakes" i.e. "degeneration" (I don't know how that squares with God's declaration that He created everything and it was good. (Genesis 1:31)and sin.

[franklin]

The Doctrines of the Church fathers includes that Adam and Eve are the original father and mother of the WHOLE human race. That Adam IS the father of Cain. That Eve did NOT have sex with satan. That Adam is NOT a homosexual. That the flood destroyed ALL of humanity except for Noah and his family.......

We, the Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians stand together AGAINST the heresy which is the serpent seed blasphemy!

[smyrna]

Ok Frankie, you want to live by Jesus' example? Why don't you tell us where you can document that "serpent seeder women" use Factnet to pick up men?

Because if you don't, it proves you are lying, and that is not living up to Jesus' example.

[franklin]

No liar here. Just a gentleman who won't discuss private matters in public. Those involved know who they are. You brought an untruth against me. I countered with the truth. Best to drop the whole matter.

[smyrna]

Sorry Frankie, but you contradict yourself. It it is such a private matter, then why did you bring it up?

You are lying, and if you want to deny it, that's perfectly fine. Because we have plenty of documented lies of yours.

Examples: You claimed that you "did not know" whether SC was a cult or not, while at the same time you called SC a cult over at CB on the very same day!

Next, you claimed that you only listen to God's Word, and not any man, while at the same time you referred us to onehumanrace.com which has such a twisted view of creation, that it pains me that you don't see it as on par with your admittedly
dim view of SC teachings regarding same.

[grace2u]

You know - I agreewith Franklin on this Smyrna. Let's let the person have their dignity. I think everyone will be better served and God will be honored if the subject is just dropped. You guys have plenty of other areas to debate. Besides, you probably know who he is talking about. I suspect I do but I don't want to see that person hurt.

[grace2u]

You know - I agree with Franklin on this Smyrna. Let's let the person have their dignity. I think everyone will be better served and God will be honored if the subject is just dropped. You guys have plenty of other areas to debate. Besides, you probably know who he is talking about. I suspect I do but I don't want to see that person hurt.

[grace2u]

You know - I agree with Franklin on this Smyrna. Let's let the person have their dignity. I think everyone will be better served and God will be honored if the subject is just dropped. You guys have plenty of other areas to debate. Besides, you probably know who he is talking about. I suspect I do but I don't want to see that person hurt.

And it doesn't matter who started what. Blame it on me if you want to.

[grace2u]

Sorry . . . I'm having problems with FACTNET tonight.

[smyrna]

Hey, I'll go for that, because it's clear that Franklin has lied on a number of occasions. We don't have to beat this one to death.

And no, I don't know who he is talking about, because he refuses to document his allegations.

Futhermore, he said "women" as in more than one. And he's had plenty of opportunities to correct that if he was wrong and meant 'woman.'

But regardless, it's just one more situation where Frankie comes out smelling of other than a rose.

[franklin]

I come out of this smelling good! I've told the truth. I probably smell like the Irish Spring soap I use. But no, not like a rose. That's not a manly smell.

You on the other hand smell like the manure from the SC dung heap you like to hurl at everyone who won't kiss your Pope arnie's ring.

[smyrna]

Hey Frankie, let's get back down to earth. Tell me how joking about another Factnetter having male on male sex with an Orangutan has you smelling like a rose.

Delusion fits you Frankie. You were NOT exonerated. You said "women serpent seeders" used FN to pick up women, and you STILL have not provided documentation.

You also chose to word your post with name calling and insults, you know, the kind of language your fellow astronauts call "bullying" and "attacking" when it is aimed at them, but is perfectly fine when aimed at us.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Is there any possability of returning to civility?
(you know,drop the useless name calling and all?)

Good question ,huh?

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

</font>}

[smyrna]

Dave,

Well, Dave, you've been around here long enough to know that ignoring the detractors does not work.

What they do when we ignore them is that they post progressively more outrageous accusations about us, in their efforts to get us to pay attention to them. And when we do, they accuse us of "attacking" them, and "bullying" them.

But I'm glad they see it that way. By saying we "bully" them, they admit they are overpowered. Now why would anyone admit to being overpowered when one of their primary arguments is that they are superior to us?

They have the truth, they judge heresy, they judge we are racists, they have the power to tell us we lie when we deny we are racists and heretics.

They make the rules, they impose them on us, they break their own rules, and they are the sole judges of what is truth and what is false.

All that power they claim to have, but then they say we "bully" them. I don't get it.

[gone_to_pa]

Smyrna,

Since I "was" such a stand up guy, what do you see on the Lake of Fire thread. Brotherly and sisterly love, or what you accuse Franklin of. I was a Catholic for 38 years and in fact went to midnight mass on Christmas Eve. It upsets me to see what A/M has tried to turn Eve into. Also Martin Luther is one of the church fathers as far as I'm concerned so that crosses out Protestism. Let me ask you something Smyrna. Since I left this sight, how many insightful studies have been done, similiar to the one I attempted with some others here. I mean with outsiders of your group. Not many if any because you are all so busy patting each other on the back and shoving your superior wisdom down peoples throats that no one who is serious wants to study anything out with you but your own type. If this was truly a Christain then all woulsd and could come here without worrying about being brow beaten. This has nothing to do with my situation, but what I have read since I left. This is not said in anything negative, but you present yourselves as great studiers of the Scriptures, but yet, even a child can see that no where could anyone get from the Scriptures what you have on this S/S doctrine unless it were taught to them by man.

A CULT is a perversion, a distortion of Biblical Christianity and/ or a rejection of the historic teachings of the Christian Church. The Apostle Paul warned there would be false Christs and a false gospel that would attempt to deceive the true church and the world. (2 Cor 11:13-15 NASB) A Cult then, is a group of people polorized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is charectorized by major deviations from Orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ.
What you would have us to believe is that Origen,Justin, Iraneaus, Jerome, Eusebius, Athanasius, Chrysostom, then later Thomas Aquinas, Huss, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Tyndale, Wycliffe, Knox, Wesley, Whitefield, and a vast army of faithful; servants of Jesus Christ all failed in their understanding and interpretation of the Scriptures, but lo and behold T.V. evangelist Arnold Murray got it all right! LOL I'm sorry, but you have to see what I am saying. saying. It's ludicrus. Also my friend for those who do believe in Evolution, a monkey having intercourse would be a natural process in the crossbreeding of the Evolutionary Theory. Glad to say I haven't seen any of the crossbreeds as of yet and that is why I don't believe in Evolution. If you knew what they are teaching our children in schools, then you would know this is a part of that teaching.

[gone_to_pa]

{{ 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.}}
Yours in truth GTP

notice the minute I stopped being a stand up guy was when I disagreed with this group. If I went along and let them belittle me and talk to me like some 6 year old in his first Bible Study, oh we were tighter than a lock-nut on a washer. The minute that I knew I was going to be attacked and backed out gracefully, Your other leader and Teacher W/M did everything in his power to rationalize and justify the actions of some when what he should of done as one of the leaders of this group was to apologize like a man, repent and try harder the next time, but he doesn't do that unless there is great benefit to him. He doesn't discern the spirit because he doesn't even know the spirit. Dave and his conversations have shown us all that on numerous occasions. I will be over at my usual sight, and leave you wonderful mixed up kids alone to self destruct. Your doing such a great job, you certainly don't need my help. ( Here it comes )
GTP said this; GTP said that. Why don't you address my above post that names many of the church fathers and more and explain to us how they all missed the mark, but Arnold Murray didn't. That's why we didn't trust Islam to much right? One man [ Mohammed ] goes in a cave and comes out and says he has a lock on the truth. Koran/ Joseph Smith same manure,[ Book of Mormon ] and now Arnold Murray, one man who found out what all these others I listed above couldn't find in the Scriptures, not even a hint of the manure Murray is slinging, but you all are like goldfish in a bowl who haven't been fed in a week. No matter what is thrown in you swallow it all without even taking a breath. I'll leave now and will still continue to pray for ALL of you. Later, as in much GTP

[smyrna]

GTP:
Your post is a gross oversimplification of the issues you raised. There is no in depth study here, because the detractors are not into in depth studies.
I started a thread that treated the history of the Biblical manuscripts and other ancient documents, apocrypha)right on the SC board,and the detractors never even posted there!
Godchild didn't know that the LXX and the Septuagunt were the same document, Frankie didn't know that unicorns were mentioned in the KJV and why, he couldn't explain why it says in Luke 2: that the whole world was taxed by Augustus, and so there is a need for in depth study, but they are too busy heckling and they would never listen to us anyway.

Now as for serpent seed, I am getting ready to post a new thread that takes the history of Serpent Seed from A to Z.

And no one should make any judgments until they read that, because it explains how this teaching got lost in time, along with Jesus' true birth day, at least a much more insightful reckoning, and how the CC came about the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

I love how some endorse the Church Fathers on one hand, when it suits them, and criticize them when it suits them.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
I tried to put a fire out with gas once too.
It never works that way.

</font>}

[watchman_2]

Give it up GTP! Your complaint has nothing to do with the Finishing Off of smyrna.

Your infantile behavior is on record for all to see on the Lake of Fire thread. You were proven wrong by the sisters and didn't have the decency to acknowledge the truths that they posted, truths straight from the Word of God.

Instead, you tried to pretend that your analysis was inspired by the Holy Spirit, thereby inferring that the sisters' analysis was not. You were simply busted for that unethical debating approach and you have been whining about it ever since.

[gone_to_pa]

AhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhFART, It's really a joke, you and your interpretations of truth. I sent about 6 people over to the sight you say, the women showed me up on, and all concur that you played yourself; BIGTIME! ( as usual ) and they couldn't believe I didn't say something way before I did. You know what, as granny used to say, "the proof is in the pudding" Washerman, your the blindest person I have ever had the displeasure to hear. Now, that's what it's been all along, your so blind you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground.
Smearer, I at one time thought you might have had enough common sense to steer clear from the likes of the angel Mastema.( Wishywasherman) , but there is hope even for Mastema incarnate. It is the angel Samhiel which can be found in the Cabala. No I didn't say Samiel, I said Samhiel. Since you all are such great studiers, let me know what you find out about these angels. Smear, save your breath and time, your brothers and sisters have said more than enough. And we have spoken our peace. Gee, I wonder what happens if folk can't exegete and just read plain English. They surely are not going to read into the Scriptures that Eve was into wild animals. This is what they will read and it will mean exactly what it says. " Gen 4:1 " Adam lay with his wife Eve ( not the serpent) and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain." " She said, "With the help of the Lord, ( not classes in beast-eal-ity 101) I have brought forth a man. Later she gave birth to his brother Abel"

You know what is so beautiful about this Scripture, that even a babe in Christ can understand it. I'm Audi 3000. You guys couldn't understand the Cat in the Hat. Come down off your pedestals and maybe you'll start seeing eye to eye with other folks, instead of looking down on others who don't believe the Red Necks Tripe that he throws up on poor old ladies stuck in wheel chairs who sit up at 5AM in the morning, looking to hear God's Word. Are you sure Arnold isn't from West Virginia. With all the sexual inuendo's about Eve and animals of the fields, I'm starting to wonder! LOL. Hey Smear, why don't you give us a little history lesson on the Habiru, Abraham and Lot. Oh yea, I forgot, you only study and read out of God's word! LOL. If that was true, you could have never, ever possibly come up with this perverted doctrine, unless it was taught to you by man. In this case it's another of the many famous Television Evangelist who have given teachers and preachers of the true Word of God such a black eye. It's folk like him that keep so many out of the church. TV evangelist give real, true ambassadors of Christ a bad name. Everyone thinks that all Preachers are like these guys. Hey guys, have you heard the latest news, Jesus had sex with Mary Magdelene.( LIE) If Arnold starts teaching it to his Mickey Mouse Fan Club, will you all jump on the bandwagon. I'd bet my bippy you would, in a New York second, because it's obvious, you have blinders on just like they put on a race horse so he wiill not be distracted as he runs down the track. You all see one dimensional. I'll be waiting for your answers on the angels and the Habiru. Not just who they were, but what part did they play in the history of The Early Hebrews, and the angels, you can just tell me what they're duties were and are. That will do. Goodnight Gone to PA

[gone_to_pa]

YOU ARE A LIAR WASHERMAN OF THE WORSE KIND. YOU SURE DO LIKE TO TRY TO TURN THINGS AROUND. IT'S FUNNY THAT BECAUSE I SAID THAT WHEN I STUDY I AM LED OF THE SPIRIT, BUT YOU SAID THAT BY ME SAYING THAT, I WAS IMPLYING (YOUR SISTERS ) AS YOU CALL THEM WERE NOT. I NOT ONCE EVER IMPLIED THAT. GO BACK AND READ IT AGAIN. I HAVE WATCHED HOW YOU TWIST TRUTH AS YOU SPEAK TO DAVE. YOUR ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL. YOU ARE THE BIGGEST LIAR ON THE ENTIRE FACTNET SIGHT. I QUIT BECAUSE I FELT AS THOUGH YOU WERE GETTING READY TO POUNCE. I FELT AS THOUGH I WASN'T TREATED RIGHT, WHICH APOLOGIES HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE ON BOTH SIDES, SO QUIT BRINGING YOUR SISTERS INTO THIS, BECAUSE THAT IS HOW YOU PLAY EVEN YOUR OWN KIND. YOU TRY AND DRAG THEM INTO SOMETHING BETWEEN YOU AND I SO AS TO GATHER SUPPORT SO I WILL BE OUT NUMBERED HERE AS I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN.
YOU KNOW WHY YOUR PI$$ED? BECAUSE I CALLED YOU OUT, TWO DAYS BEFORE YOU SAID A WORD. THE SPIRIT THAT LED ME DURING THAT STUDY IS THE SAME SPIRIT THAT WARNED ME OF A SNAKE THAT WOULD DROP FROM THE TREE'S AND BITE ME. I SAT BACK ( GO READ THE LETTER AGAIN IF YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN) PRAYING THAT SOMEONE WOULD SAY SOMETHING NICE ABOUT ALL THE TIME WE SPENT ON THE NET TOGETHER STUDYING.
BUT INSTEAD TWO DAYS LATER WHO REARS THEIR UGLY HEAD. YOU, THATS RIGHT YOU, YOU STARTED YOUR SLANDER CAMPAIGN AS YOU DO ON EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS EVER TRIED TO LEAVE THE S/C THREAD IN PEACE. YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO SAY HOW THEY RAN AND HID FROM YOUR SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE AND EXEGESIS ABILITY. HOW YOU ARE SUCH A GREAT MASTER OF THE SCRIPTURES AND NO ONE SHOULD DARE TRY TO GO MANO E MANO WITH THE LIKES OF YOU AND YOUR CREW.
DON'T YOU SEE THAT YOU MADE A UTTER AND COMPLETE ANAL HOLE OUT OF YOURSELF. AS MANY TIMES AS YOU ASK PEOPLE FOR APOLOGIES, YET YOU LAMBASTED ME FOR NO REASON AND OFFERED NO APOLOGY. YOU KNOW WHY. BECAUSE YOU ARE PERFECT. YOU CAN DO NO WRONG. YOU ARE GOD IN YOUR OWN MIND AND A COMPLETE NUMBSKULL IN MANY, MANY OTHERS. YOU ARE PATHETIC AND I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU. WHY, BECAUSE YOUR SO SELF ABSORBED AND SELF RIGHTEOUS, THAT YOU MAKE MOST WANT TO THROW UP. BUT LIKE I SAID, THERE IS POSSIBLY ONE LAST BEING POSSIBLY THAT CAN HELP, YES EVEN YOUR INCOHERENT SELF. SAMHIEL IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE.

AGAIN===What you would have us to believe is that Origen,Justin, Iraneaus, Jerome, Eusebius, Athanasius, Chrysostom, then later Thomas Aquinas, Huss, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Tyndale, Wycliffe, Knox, Wesley, Whitefield, and a vast army of faithful; servants of Jesus Christ all failed in their understanding and interpretation of the Scriptures, but lo and behold T.V. evangelist Arnold Murray got it all right! LOL I'm sorry, but you have to see what I am saying. saying. It's ludicrus AND SO IS YOUR PACK OF LIES. CAN YOU PUT ONE SENTENCE TOGETHER WITHOUT LIEING? nO BECAUSE OF jOHN 8:44 IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU, GOODNITE MASTEMA. I STILL WILL PITY AND FEEL SORRY FOR YOU NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU LIE AND ATTEMPT TO TWIST THE OBVIOUS TRUTH. ptg

[smyrna]

I guess GTP also believes Abel was born twice:

Genesis 4:2 "And she AGAIN bare his brother Abel."

You can't change your methodology from one verse to the next. If you take every word of the first verse literally, you must also treat the second literally.

I don't know what the other stuff about the Kabballah GTP is muttering about, so I can't comment further about it.

[smyrna]

The detractors point to Genesis 4:1 quoting: “And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain...” and say: “that settles the matter, Adam was Cain’s father.” The problem is: they are reading the account in English and it was originally written in Hebrew.

In the original Hebrew, there were no punctuation marks; no capital letters at the beginning of a sentence nor periods at the end; there were no vowels; nor were there any chapter and verse divisions as we know them today.

Therefore, we have to hope that the translators put all of these things in their proper places. Yet we know that they didn’t always do that, for many times part of a topic is given at the end of one chapter, and continued into the first part of the following chapter. So, if they were inconsistent with the chapter and verse divisions, so might they also be on these other things.

In Ralph Woodrow’s Babylon Mystery Religion, page 146, there is a footnote which reads: “Note: When the Bible was originally written, commas (and other punctuation marks) were completely unknown. Aldus Manutious invented punctuation marks in the Fifteenth Century. Since the original manuscripts had no punctuation marks, the translators placed commas wherever they thought they should go — based entirely on their beliefs...”

With this, you can begin to see the problem we are up against with the interpretation of Genesis 4:1! We must give the translators credit though, as they placed a semicolon (;) between, “And Adam knew Eve his wife” (;) “and she conceived and bore Cain.” A semicolon indicates the greatest degree of separation possible within a sentence before dividing it into two separate sentences.

The translators should have used two separate sentences in this case as Adam knowing Eve, in this particular case, had nothing to do with Eve bearing Cain. Should it have two sentences, or one? Once we begin to understand that Eve was pregnant with Cain before Adam ever knew her, we can realize Adam knowing Eve didn’t have anything to do with Eve bearing Cain. It’s the old concept of cause and effect. I could say I went to a movie one evening and the sun rose the next morning. If this was said, it would be true. But, even though it was true, it does not mean that the sun rising the next morning had anything to do with my having gone to a movie.

[smyrna]

“49 Therefore also said the wisdom of Yahweh, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required (¦6.0JXT, to demand an account of) of this generation [#1074, genea]; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation [#1074, genea].”

Here, Messiah is charging the “Jews” with the murder of Abel. It would have been criminally illegal on the part of Yahshua to make such a charge if it were not true. The only way He could legally have produced such a serious charge was if the “Jews” of His day were descended from Cain, for no other person in all of history was responsible for the murder of Abel, but Cain. Most anti-seedliners are strangely quiet on this passage, although Ted R. Weiland in his booklet Eve, Did She Or Didn’t She? Erroneously tries to prove the scribes and Pharisees were true Israelites [on page 68] where he makes the following statement:

[smyrna]

“Seedliners claim that because the Pharisees and their progenitors were charged with the murders of all the righteous from Abel to Zacharias, they cannot be Israelites but instead must be Cainites of the seed of Satan. The truth is that because the Pharisees and their forefathers were indicted for the murder of the righteous martyrs, they cannot be Cainites but instead must be Israelites”

Weiland further states on page 94: “The seedliners teach that the Pharisees were Cainites of the seedline of Satan, whereas Matthew 3:7-8, 27:6-10, John 7:19, 8:28-37, Acts 4:5-10, 24-35 and 7:2-52 declare that the Pharisees were Judahites of seed line of Jacob/Israel.”

If what Weiland is implying were true, the Messiah would be condemning the entire race of Israelites (including Himself, His family, the Apostles, Disciples, etc.) in speaking of them as a “generation”, for the word “generation”, used in this passage, is #1074, and in the Greek means “race” according to The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament by Spiros Zodhiates, page 362: “... a race; then generally in the sense of affinity of communion based upon the sameness of stock. Race or posterity ... A descent or genealogical line of ancestors or descendants...” The Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament by Joseph Henry Thayer agrees, page 112: “... a begetting, birth, nativity ... passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family ... the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy ... metaphor, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race...” It would appear that maybe Weiland should have checked his Greek before he made such a spurious statement. Therefore, the only conceivable meaning this passage could convey is: the “Pharisees” were the genea of Cain. Yahshua plainly told the “Jewish” Pharisees, John 10:26, “... ye are not my sheep...” There is nothing more blasphemous than to imply that Yahshua the Messiah was a racial brother to the “Jews”!

Evidently, Ted R. Weiland never read Josephus, Wars 2:8:2. Josephus makes it quite clear the Pharisees and Sadducees were not Israelites by birth. Let’s now read this passage:

“For there are three philosophical sects among the Jews. The followers of the first of whom are the Pharisees; of the second the Sadducees; and the third sect, who pretends to a severer discipline, are called Essens. These last are Jews [Judah] by birth, and seem to have a greater affection for one another than the other sects have.”

It would appear from this that of these three mentioned, only the Essenes could claim to be pure blooded Israelites; that many, perhaps a majority of the Pharisees and Sadducees were neither true Israelites nor of the true Tribe of Judah. Why didn’t Josephus mention the Pharisees and Sadducees as being Jews by birth? I know that in John 8:33 &amp; 37, it appears from the rendering, that the scribes and Pharisees might be true Israelites. Sure, the Arabs can claim Abraham as their father. We know, also, that the “Jews” of Messiah’s day had absorbed Edomite blood, and therefore could claim both Abraham and Isaac as their fathers. The Shelanite-Judahites could even claim an affinity with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah, but that doesn’t make them of the true Tribe of Judah. Recent archaeological finds are showing evidence two of Esau’s wives were, more than likely, of the Cain-Satinic-seedline. Even Howard B. Rand in his book Primo-genesis, plate 11, at the end of his book, shows Pharaohs Ramesses I &amp; II of Egypt being descended from the House of Esau through Eliphaz.

[gone_to_pa]

I thought you were great studiers. I still didn't read that she was a pervert who liked having intercourse with a serpent, who by the way would have had to have a penis big enough to penetrate Eve, so that she could get pregnant. Gee wizz guys, I wonder why God left this very important detail out of our Bibles and only those of you Spin Doctors see it this way. I wonder why none of the above scholars that I mentioned didn't notice that in all the studies they did. Can you even imagine the fact the Martin Luther was dumb to the fact of Eve being "sexually seduced" by a serpent. Did you also know that seduce doesn't always mean sexual, or is it only that preverts think that way. And as far as you answering anything outside of your game of Twister is concerned I didn't expect you'd be able to answer it anyway.
What about the Habiru? I'll give you a little hint my closed minded friend.

Ha·bi·ru = /h&amp;#593;&amp;#712;biru, &amp;#712;h&amp;#593;bi&amp;#716;ru/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hah-bee-roo, hah-bee-roo] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun (used with a plural verb) a nomadic people mentioned in Assyro-Babylonian literature: possibly the early Hebrews.
Since you act as though you are such historians I thought you might have a clue????

Can I ask this. How did the serpent know that Eve was ovulating, or are you trying to tell me that the Serpent got Eve pregnant on it's first try? Did the serpent ask Eve when her menstrual cycle was due, because he could have timed her ovulation by that, unless he impregnanted her before the fall, then Adams and her sin had nothing to do with not listening to God's command, but that she fornicated with a beast of the field. She did that which was unnatural. Was it the tree that made them conscience of God, or was it her desire for all the animals that Adam was naming? Don't you see how sick this manure is. Do yourself a favor. Read your Bible, don't add things in there that are not there. If Eve had sex with an animal I'm sure Moses would have wrote it down. They didn't hide murder, they didn't hide the fact that in Sodom men wanted to come in and have homosexual relations with the angels in the house. Hey, I know why it has been hidden from all the greatest scholars who have ever lived! So that Arnold Murray could bring it up now and say now these folks got the truth, and the entire rest of Christianity doesn't get it, but the S/S.
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
- -quotation on placard over Jim Jones' rostrum at Jonestown

[gone_to_pa]

TO all the S/S group

This I will say in all sincerity will no malice in my heart. I was in a cult at one time. I gave you the definition of what a cult is above. Funny how no-one commented on that, but it doesn't surprise me. For God's sake be careful because this kind of thing starts out very slowly at first. very slowly. Everyone says, "who me, I could never get caught up like that" tell the women and children in The Peoples Temple who were running as they were being gunned down. David Koresh didn't come out saying he was the Messiah. He was a Charismatic and had some unusual teachings and interpretations of the Scriptures. It wasn't until he was having sex with his followers 13 and 14 year old girls saying that the Messiahs seed had to continue on that his followers started gettting suspicious.
Is Arnold Murray this extreme as Jim Jones or David Koresh? NO, but could that change? Yes it could. I was in a cult with thousands who thought their Pastor was just AWESOME and wouldn't do one thing to hurt them. When he packed up all his stuff and moved to Baltimore, about 500 families (conservative est.) left homes, jobs e.t.c.) just to be close to their Pastor teacher. People did things they wouldn't normally do and witnessed things they wouldn't have normally stood by and watched. And don';t sit there like you know it all and say it could never happen to me. Oh yes it could, to anyone. Sop whether you hate my guts or not, I wouldn't want to see harm come to any of you. And that is the God's honest truth. Take it or leave it. GTP

[smyrna]

GTP,

Origen was aware that Protoevangelium of Jaems quoted Mary mentioning that Satan seduced Eve. Luther is a non-issue, since he was an Augustinian friar he was under the obedince of the Magisterium, who developed the Genesis story under different lines, Jerome being a major influence.

Jerome did not appreciate the Protoevanglium, and since he has such great influence in the early Church, he singlehandedly
surpressed the Protoevangelium.(at least the parts he didn't like)But that does not nullify its contents.

As a matter of fact, though there is no direct allusion to the serpent seducing Eve, the following Catholic website not only acknowledges the fact that the fallen angels had sex with women, but that the seed in Genesis 3:15 does indeed mean offspring.

http://biblescripture.net/First.html


Just another source that must be wrong, in order for Franklin and company to be correct. That does not bode well for them. The list is growing.

First, there was a denial the Fathers did not ever hear of the serpent's seed. Nor was there any "history" of the serpent's seed.

But after that was proven wrong, the detractors now condemn those sources, even though the Bible affirms the true interpretation of these sources.

The arguments that Franklin and GTP are putting forth are getting more ridiculous. Now GTP is comparing Pastor Murray to Jim Jones and Koresh.

GTP wrote:"It wasn't until he was having sex with his followers 13 and 14 year old girls saying that the Messiahs seed had to continue on that his followers started getting suspicious.
Is Arnold Murray this extreme as Jim Jones or David Koresh? NO, but could that change? Yes it could."

Yeah, I can see an 80+ year old man who has had a ministry for longer than GTP has probably been alive suddenly give that all up and have sex with 14 year olds. What a nutcase.

[smyrna]

GTP also is trying to perpetuate the lie that we believe that satan was a real snake in the garden of Eden. There is no way he has never seen at least one of the literally hundreds of posts where we explicitly stated that satan was a fallen angle, and that the word snake was translated from nacash, and the when God said "on they belly you will crawl" was an idiom, just like the rest of the verse, "and dust shall thou eat."


The issue is not whether GTP believes that or not, the issue is what we SC students believe, compared to what GTP claims we believe.

And all that means GTP is willingly bearing false witness against us, by lying about us, which is why he has once again aligned himself with Frankie.

What's next, GTP? Why don't you just accuse one of us of having male on male sex with an orangutan?

If you want to be like Frankie, you may as well go all the way.

[smyrna]

You've got to love that GTP completely ignored the posts that contained the critical analysis of the questions surrounding the first chapters of Genesis.

Rather, he deliberately goes on his own barely intelligible tirade. This is another trait he shares with Frankie. I'm starting to wonder if these guys are twins.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
OY VAY!!

</font>}

[watchman_2]

gtp,

Just what one would expect from a preacher when you wrote,

<font color="ff0000">"the proof is in the pudding" Washerman, your the blindest person I have ever had the displeasure to hear. Now, that's what it's been all along, your so blind you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground.
</font>
More whining! Even an idiot like you should be able to agree with me that the Holy Spirit would not lead one to untruth. If so, then, by your own hand, you proved to be a liar, for your Lake of Fire analysis was surely unbiblical/false, as the sisters conclusively proved.

With your wonderful qualifications, <font color="ff0000">I'm Audi 3000. You guys couldn't understand the Cat in the Hat. </font>, you surely should have been able to prove the sisters wrong. Of course, Mr. Audi 3000, had a flat in the Lake of Fire debate and his Audi went no where.

Your further infantile tirade above is further evidence that you are totally clueless. It is not my truth -- but God's Truth. It is not my interpretation -- but the Word of God that is presented. You just cannot deal with the fact that you preach/teach traditions of man and false theology. Your ego will not let you even think that you might be one of those false preachers that the Bible warns us of.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
People write with many styles.
Hostile isn't one I care to engage in.

With any one.

</font>}

[fullofquestions]

true

[sharon]

gone_to_pa...My fears are the like as yours. I fear many will stand where I once stood. I know the punishment for that. Preaching false doctrine and not following the example of Christ is exactly what old nasty pants wants.
He wants them to think Eve a harlot, and Adam a cockold. And them children of such a union. But they have found a way around that, only one of their children is bad, the others are good. And like Adam pointing at Eve and blaming her and God, the woman YOU gave me gave it to me, they point and say the children of Cain are evil.
I say get out of the garden, as long as you are in the garden there is no following Jesus. Jesus was not in that garden but in another garden.

[smyrna]

Sharon wrote: "He wants them to think Eve a harlot, and Adam a cockold.'


s I explained before, it is an err to accuse EVE of being a harlot (whore) or Adam a homosexual. Neither can be true, based upon the fact that satan is not a human being.

He is a fallen angel.A supernatual being with the power to deceive, seduce, and as a matter of fact, the definition of the of the word "nacash", which the translators turned into "serpent" means to "enchant."
A harlot or homosexual are people who have sex with other people, not a supernatual being in the likeness of a man.

And since many ancient texts speak of sex between the fallen angels and and women, we're not going to sit here and listen to demonstrably ignorant people who weren't even born more than a century ago, over the numerous texts that were written by those who had been eyewitnesses to some of these events, thousands of years ago.
So you, Franklin and whoever can accuse and accuse and accuse, but God will be our judge, not you. If anything, we follow Jesus more closely than you, since we take His words more literally that you do.

[arron]

well the scers ceritanly believe that eve had sex with satan and if adam ate of the same tree who thye say was satan then he had sex with the satan too. so if eve had sex aaway from adam what and who was she and if adam had sex with satan then what.. explain that synerna oh ant not with opinions but with the bible

[smyrna]

I'm not explaining anything to you Arron, Because all these issues have been addressed already. So if you want to go round and round and round,go find an amusement park, and go jump on a merry-go-round.
You either have a very poor memory, or are dishonest, to imply that we have never answered those questions.

[watchman_2]

I vote for dishonest when it comes to arron. Nobody could have that poor of a memory. He is a liar!

arron, have you no shame!

[sharon]

Smyrna... I know that what I say is not what you want to hear. And I am not saying all you say is wrong, for it is not. There is more than one thing I think you are right on.
And you are right there is many places I am not knowledgeable, I freely admit that. Kind of hard to hide. But the things I am against I am against. Eve having sex with the devil, that’s one. That is sexist, and wrong. Do you not see that there needs to be no more said against woman, they suffer enough. Maybe not here, but the rest of the world does not give woman the freedom that we have here. Many religions use the bible as an excuse to enslave woman, and keep them down. The weapon you put in the hands of men causes more pain then it stops.
They are suffering because of doctrine. So one must look at that doctrine. To say she had sex with the devil, how does that help woman. Jesus loved woman. You may be able to find a way to have Jesus say that eve had sex with the devil but it would sound like this.. Eve knew the devil and begat Cain. Plain and simple, not hidden or hard to understand. He did not speak that way, he spoke in parables because he knew we would find it easier to understand.
And for those of us who do not really understand all that we read he made it really really simple. Love God your Father, and love your fellowman. ALL the LAWs and ALL the Prophets hang on this. What could be easier? And yet it is still up for debate on if woman are cursed, if some races are evil, if some are born of the devil. Jesus did not mention this in his commandant.
You see as a woman who has seen the results of this doctrine, and haven't we all, I can not look at my Father and say he loves these but not those. Or these are evil but those are good. Especially woman, they have suffered enough. And God help us if we do not see our mistakes of the past. And some amoung you do not have the same agenda that you may have. Others want to follow a certian doctrine not because they really believe it but because it is how they feel in their hearts, that some are to be hated.Be careful of the vipers amoung you. As I am of my place.
I do not stand against you, but your doctrine. You do not hate woman or Jews I am sure! But you speak things that may make others do so. Not all have the power of reason you know. Some only want to hate, and use any excuse to do so.
Sorry if I offended you. I sometimes tend to get carried away.
But you know us born again vegans, never ends with us, we even want the whole world to love, and not eat all of creation.

[smyrna]

Sharon wrote:

"Eve having sex with the devil, that’s one. That is sexist, and wrong."

This is a direct testimony to your lack of knowledge. There is enumerable references in Scripture that pits both men and women against God. Is that sexist? Or is it didactic?
The latter is closer to the truth. Hebrew culture held women as subordinates, which actually goes against the very reason for the creation of Eve, at least for liberal theologians.
Because "helper" (Heb. "ezer") which some versions translate it to, can mean a subordinate helper or someone on the same level, or equal.
The subordination of woman seems to be carried through in the New Testament, but what often fails to be realized, is that women are not AS subordinate as is often implied, but is an indispensible, integral part of the family structure, just as when there is a "King" there must be a "Queen" in Royal families.

To apply this idea to the Fall of man, Eve is not singled out as the cause for the Fall. Satan is the primary offender, but Adam and Eve both stood guilty, no matter whether one applies a sexual component to the narrative or not.

Now modern theological thought, which some may blame "a great apostasy" on, attempts to place a different emphasis and confront the traditional theology behind the Fall, and this has nothing to do with SC teachings.

One of the voices from that camp, who is considered the founder of "Creation Spirituality" Matthew Fox, emphasizes "Original Blessing" over "Original Sin":

"Creation Spirituality begins with the notion of creation as an original blessing as opposed to original sin. For Fox sin results not so much from disobedience with God's laws as it does from disconnectedness to God's creation.

He compares the seven traditional sins to seven principles of Creation Spirituality:cosmology, feminism, liberation, compassion, prophecy, creativity, and community 5 . This is where Fox shifts his focus from the Christian tradition perspective. For Fox sin and redemption may be central to the Christian faith, but he would rather emphasize human connections to the larger life of the cosmos 7 .Instead of focusing on the historical Jesus, he focuses on the cosmic Christ and the divinity within creation. Fox insists that the gospel writers weren't looking for the historical Jesus; they had encountered him. Instead, they were developing cosmic hymns to the cosmic Christ 23 . Fox does not deny original sin, but he insists that we start with original blessing. We must start with a positive accent, the spirit of wonder, awe or radical amazement we have when we first attend to the original blessing,to the beauty that is around and within us 23. The role of those who support Fox's theology is to "re-conceive the universe as the mystical body of Christ" 17. Cont'd

[smyrna]

Source for the above quote is found here:
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/creation_spirituality.html

Sharon wrote: "I do not stand against you, but your doctrine. You do not hate woman or Jews I am sure! But you speak things that may make others do so."

We cannot be responsible for those who abuse the message of Scripture. This is the main problem with detractors who hold us responsible.

We are not any more responsible for racist groups using the serpent seed doctrine to promote racial division any more than those who used the Bible to advocate slavery, or polygamy.

So really you should hate the sin of those who abuse doctrine, not the doctrine itself.

Sharon, my opinion, based upon the words of kindness and an apparent attitude of being a sincere truth seeker and lover of God, is that you do not belong at Cultbusters.

You can counter that I don't belong as a student of the SC. However, whatever you believe about Pastor Murray, it can be documented that he often says his ministerial purpose is to drive people into a study of God's Word.

He also often says not to trust man blindly, but to check teachers out. This is far and away form the way people view him as some cult leader. What cult leader would give up power over the people he seeks to control, by saying such things?

In other words, Pastor Murray basically shares the belief following attitude, while at the same time vigorously defending his own faith and understanding of Scripture, much to the chagrin of his detractors.

Quote: Negative sentiments are typically implied when the concepts "cult" and "sect" are employed in popular discourse. Since the Religious Movements Homepage seeks to promote religious tolerance and appreciation of the positive benefits of pluralism and religious diversity in human cultures, we encourage the use of alternative concepts that do not carry implicit negative stereotypes. For a more detailed discussion of both scholarly and popular usage of the concepts "cult" and "sect," please visit our Conceptualizing "Cult" and "Sect" page, where you will find additional links to related issues.
Source:
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/creation_spirituality.html

I respect Catholic spirituality, and the late Pope John Paul II also promoted the message above, while defending the doctrines of the Church.

Cultbusters is much more closed minded, and that is why you should distance yourself from it. "Frankie and our gang" are uneducated fantasy cult members in their own right, and their attitude is one of intolerance, and carry an "I'm right and you are a heretic" attitude that can also be seen as promoting hatred.

[skooter942000]

The SIN in the GARDEN ,
- (was not simple disobedience).

--------------------------------------------
[A Fallacy /...WITH TRUTH MIXED IN]
- Your JOB is to discern the Facts from Fiction.


http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen003.html#3


[GOD]:
Don't touch that tree.


[Adam&amp;...Eve]:
Oops , (i touched the TREE), - me too

a slithering snake (ha ha), talked to me
(ha ha), and told me it would be OK
(ha ha) to touch this tree and take the FRUIT
thereof.

FOCUS ON EXACTLY WHAT WAS JUST SAID (HERE).
FRUIT = Symbolism
(What is our Fruit today)?

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat012.html#33


- But also note these verses
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen030.html#2



Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which
[is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said,
Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch
it, lest ye die.



http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif
- Listen to a snake over GOD?

-Yeah, that makes sense.



[GOD]:
OUT OF MY GARDEN , (Both of you).

- Such wicked - wicked - wicked children.


The tree of life is taken from you.
Because you placed your hand upon this TREE.

....End of this Example
--------------------------------------------


What a [CRUEL] "FATHER",
- some must think we have.


There was ONE LAW.
- ONE
- Not TWO

...One Simple LAW.



Now ask yourself.

Why did GOD say not to touch this Tree
to begin with?

- Think about it.


- Is "ALMIGHTY + FATHER", - unfair?




The Blind cannot lead the Blind.

- So why try? (you know who you are)


The symbolism is to much it seems for some
to understand what really took place in the GARDEN.

If one is lost on what actually took place in
the Beginning, how can one understand what will
take place in the END-TIMES?

- To See? (or not to See)
- That's the question.


(T/F) - God can Blind people - [Spiritually Speaking].
So they cannot discern TRUTH from UNTRUTHS.
= (T/F)?



And if this is a true FACT,
then who is really the BLIND here.

When all the SC Students have shared the Actual FACTS ,
(While the Others simply nod their heads,
and say .....no,no,no, -uh-uh-uh) Etc

Why were APRONS MADE?
- What were they for: (Exactly)?

The Punishment fit this crime.

CHRIST in John 8 , made things Crystal clear
who the TARES ARE.
- (Children of the FIRST MURDERER)

A tare is what again?
= False GRAIN!!!
= False SEEDS


SEPERATE THE SYMBOLISM FROM THE FACTS

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



How many have actually done this:
(Repented of all of their SINS)_,
- For All of us SIN , (at times)

- Then asked for the TRUTH in this MATTER.
- TO GOD, (IN CHRIST'S HOLY NAME)?
= Isaiah 43:25-26

TREE
FRUIT
SEED
CHILDREN


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/sad.gif - Think about it.


Don <*))><

[smyrna]

Good posts skooter, here and the other thread as well. It harmonizes with my comments as well as Scripture, of course.

[skooter942000]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


--------
--------------
----------------------

To all http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif -Peoples

How many here kick against the COMPASS,
just like Saul did before CHRIST knocked
him down on the road to Damascus.


When Saul thought he was serving GOD
in the positive sense.
(He learned how wrong he was)_

Saul was coming against GOD (and HIS CHURCH),
- (And served satan instead).


- satan is the accuser ,(that's his duty)



- Saul became Paul
- his name went from "ASKED" to "LITTLE:

- Talk about being HUMBLED.

And because of this, Saul changed his ways.



- The TWO GREAT (LAWS)


LOVE GOD = First Commandment (Ex 20:1-12)
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR = Second Commandment (Ex 20:13-17)

Exd 20:18 ¶ And all the people saw the thunderings,
and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet,
and the mountain smoking:
and when the people saw [it], they removed,
and stood afar off.


Exd 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak
thou with us, and we will hear: but let not
God speak with us, lest we die.

_________________________________

CHRIST is the door to salvation.
_________________________________


If this is the CHURCH you are in,
-(Then you are a part of the BODY OF CHRIST).



People who come here to Post against the Chapel,
do not do it for CHRIST'S Sake.

- They have another agenda altogether.



Those who take themselves all too seriously,
should lighten up. (All except the TREKKIE'S).
They need to straighten up and fly right.


SC is not a CULT.

A cult thinks for you.
Gives you cool-aid for thirst,
-(their choice of Beverage)

They want you all to dwell in the same region.
&amp; Live under one roof. [Their roof]

- Submit Under their RULER.
- (Submit to their KING)

All SC Students are Free-Thinkers.
Chapel Students are not a segregated DENOM.

- We go by one name, and one name alone,

- (_C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N_)


After reading the posts on this Site,
From all the diverse Students,
this should be quite obvious.


The blindness on many ,
(Affects/Effects) everyone who posts here.

The negativity is so blatant at times, it
is downright hurtful/harmful to many who come here.


-Accusations fly here. (DAILY)

Even the Many SC Students are out of their element when posting here - ("At times").
&amp; It shows. (Sorry to say) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif
- (and yes, i am also included)



<font color="0000ff">Pearls + Swine = wasted time.
=-= "These are GOD'S WORDS", (not mine) =-=</font>


Walk the walk
Talk the talk

GOD is Watching
So be vigilant, (If you believe you serve HIM)
FOR HIS HONOR AND GLORY, (not your own).

- This is MEAT for us (ALL), - who LOVE CHRIST.



____________________________

<font color="ff0000">satan is our greatest enemy</font>
____________________________


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif
not others, who may not see eye to eye with you,
- (100% of the time).




DJF-JR <*))><

[skooter942000]

This Final Verse would not (FIT),
in the last message:



<font color="0000ff">Exd 20:20 And Moses said unto the people,
Fear not: for God is come to prove you,
and that his fear may be before your faces,
that ye sin not. </font>

[smyrna]

Another great post Skooter. And I agree, even with your criticism of us "Scers"

To be fair, even some of the "trekkies" admit they are capable of error, except for their leader.

[yaqakallah]

"Even the Many SC Students are out of their element when posting here - ("At times").

In all fairness, what he said is true, me included. But what I would like to add to his post is a reason to 'why' Sc students are guilty of this SIN most of the time.(however, it is still a sin)

When anyone who loves their interpretation of God and messiah or Religion if you will, and they are forced day after day, month after month to defend their love(beleifs), it is only human to eventually become angry and do and say things one would never do if not persucuated. Add to that having to read hurtful posts to others/friends and the flesh takes over and human emotions are displayed in a variety of ways which many are not of God.

EVERYONE is guilty of sin and Satan has decieved everyone!(yes, that means you)

I want to ask everyone of you who are not SC students who come here to think for a momment just what motivates you to come here. I want you to think about what would you do if the SC or any other 'group' of people came to your Internet hangout and constantly posted mean things to you and your friends telling you how wrong your beliefs are, that your love of God and Christ was not genuine, accuse you of being associated with groups of people even many atheists detest. Of course it is not done in a loving way, but used as a weapon to inflict harm to you and your friends. (all of this in the name of God, Christian VS Christian)

I think we can all agree that we do not approve of the JW Church and further we can all agree that they are persistant in their witnessing...ie coming to your home, passing out literature and trying every trick in the salesman's book to get to you let them in and listen to them etc. etc etc. Or telemarketers, any of you like them?

Does anyone see were I am going with this???

What I can say about the JW is that they don't leave your home hurtliing insults at you, neither do the telemarketers.

Jesus said to love everyone!!! He told his disciples that if anyone would not willingly recieve their message that they were to leave and go onto the next town. He did not tell them to browbeat anyone or to hurtle insults, just to wipe the dust from your feet and walk away unitl they were recieved willingly by someone else.

God is the judge, not any man. We all will be judged according the amount of knowledge we recieved in our lifetime and what we did with it up to our deaths.Only God knows our hearts.

Jesus preached humility/servitude/unconditional love/obediance

He died for everyone of you!

The body of Christ is made up of people from all walks of life/Denomations.(no one person or Church has the whole truth. it takes all the members of the body of Christ to form a body)

Remember the woman who was to be stoned? how many stones have each of us thrown? How many of us deserve to be stoned?

Remember Jesus entering into the prostitutes house and shut the door?(lot of gossip going on there for sure)

Remember Jesus being seen hanging out with the 'lowlifes' of his day and what was said about him, and what he said?

What provoked Jesus to anger publically? What did he say of the Reliogious leaders of his day?

does anyone remember Peter(I think) saying that be careful of how you treat others/strangers because you never know which one of them is an Angel of God?

Do you realize that God has on record everything you have done,said, thought up to this very minute?

Are you a good Samaratian or do you walk over your dying brother ?

Jesus said to repent your sins, be baptised and spread the Good News to the world making other disciples along the way.

If you were to die this very day, what will Jesus say to you on Judgement day?

[angie0401]

Great post, kim, and lots and lots of important truth in it. I know I have taken it to heart and I hope everyone here will.

You seem to be doing great today - strong, faithful and at peace. I'm glad to "hear" it.

Angie

[sharon]

Skooter God changed the serpent into a snake after Eve ate the fruit, she did not listen to a snake. Other wise she would have had a hard time hearing what he was saying with his little tiny forked tongue. And she would have had to get down on the ground to listen as few woman would pick up a snake. Even though they feel like satan, oh I mean satin.
I am not sure if I would listen to a serpent! But you have to admit he had a convincing arguement. And Eve did not know good from evil, which in my opinion seems a little unfair.
But then God told me to stay out of the churches and I did not listen and ran to one after another so I guess maybe I would have taken the fruit also.
But if my husband pointed at me and said SHE did it, oh then I would be cranky. Even tried to blame the Lord, that woman YOU gave me. And if that pesky snake who got me kicked out of the garden showed up, well I can tell you it would not be sex i was thinking of but wondering where oh where did I place that rock. Just kidding, I do not kill, not even snakes.
I guess it is me who should stay out of the garden. But I do love that we will once again return to paradise, and the no killing of animals or man.

[smyrna]

Sharon wrote: "Skooter God changed the serpent into a snake after Eve ate the fruit, she did not listen to a snake."

That is a most ridiculous statement. Was it a snake that tempted Jesus in the wilderness? How old must it have been by then?

"But then God told me to stay out of the churches..."

I can assure you, using the Word of God, that God would not tell you to stay out of the Churches. That would be like God telling you to stay away from Him, and if he really told you that, would would that tell you about yourself?

Getting back to God turning Satan into a snake, you have absolutely no regard for the FACT that it is DOCUMENTED that there are FIGURES of Speech that are part of the ancient Hebrew language that are known to us. And when God said to the "nacash" (Heb. "enchanter" "soothsayer")
"on thy belly thou shalt crawl, is a figure of sppech which denotes ultimate defat and humiliation. Why don't you look at KJV Psalm 44:25? You think that is talking about a snake?

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Sharon said:
Skooter God changed the serpent into a snake after Eve ate the fruit, she did not listen to a snake.

Hmmmm So what or who was the serpent before it was changed into a snake?

Smyrna, good verse you mentioned there. It's a good example of figures of speech.</font>

Psa 44:25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.

[smyrna]

Yes, Ter,

And if you aware of the Divine structure that Bullinger so ingeniously illuminated, you will also see that the figure is introverted between Genesis 3:14 and Psalm 44:25. "Belly" and "dust" is mentioned in that order in Genesis, but dust and belly is the order you will find in the Psalm.

And if any of the detractors want to take issue with that, let's hope so. Because there are literally thousands of such strategically placed introversions and alternations within the structures, and that cannot be denied.

It also cannot be considered inconsequential either, because no other writings, with the possible exception of sacred writings akin to the canon, that have this quality.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Smyrna,

Quote:
And if you aware of the Divine structure that Bullinger so ingeniously illuminated, you will also see that the figure is introverted between Genesis 3:14 and Psalm 44:25. "Belly" and "dust" is mentioned in that order in Genesis, but dust and belly is the order you will find in the Psalm.

Yes, I noticed it before I even read Bullinger's work. I was floored at the awesomeness of the writings, how the same messages are repeated over and over again. It's not as easily noticable with only "reading" the bible, but with "studying" bible, it is very evident. The Bible truly is a wonderful piece of work. Only Divine inspiration could have written a work such as that.</font>

[skooter942000]

Question (To whom it may concern)



<font color="0000ff">Does the Bible contain (SYMBOLISM)?</font>

<font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+2">(Y/N)</font></font></font>


Is everything (to be taken LITERAL)?
(Or FACTUAL)

Or is Everything to be taken SPIRITUALLY?


WE ARE TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD.

In another Thread (this was brought up_)
What is the greatest harm to Christianity

i believe "Miscommunication" - Is Quite Harmful.



satan is the serpent (Period)
- In the GARDEN.


- HE was in the GARDEN (EZE 28:12 - on),
- proves this


satan has many names - (Or Titles)
Call them ROLES ,(if you desire).
he is a PLAY-ACTOR after all.

- he is a Pretender , (after all).


Examples:
AntiChrist [1John 2:18]
The False Prophet [Rev 16:3]
Little Horn [Dan 8:]
Lucifer [Isa 14:12]
The Prince that shall come [Dan 9:26]
The Wicked or Lawless one [2Thess 2:8]
The Vile person [Dan 11:21]
The Serpent [Gen 3:]
King of Tyre/The Assyrian [Eze 28 / Isa 14:25]
King of Fierce Countenance [Dan 8:23]
The Beast with Ten Horns [Rev 13:1]
The man of Sin [2Thess 2:3]
King of Babylon [Isa 14:4]
The willful King [Dan 11:36-37]
Satan [Matt 4:]
Devil [Matt 4:]
Apollyon [Rev 9:]
Abaddon [Rev 9:]
The Dragon [Rev 12:7]



Each NAME has a Meaning.
Each NAME shows what ROLE he is playing.
Each name shows where he is (and what is going on).



[FUTURE PROPHECY]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out,
that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,
which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast
out into the earth, and his angels were cast
out with him.




ONE time that i can think of, did an animal
actually speak words to someone.

- And no it was not Winnie the Poo.
- (or Tiger Too)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Num/Num022.html#21



It seems most here believe themselves to
be Teachers and not Bible Students.

A Christian is supposed to GROW and MATURE
in THE WORD.



Even a GIFTED BIBLE TEACHER - (Is a Student).
- (In GOD'S SIGHT).



http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif



Doulos Don <*))><

[skooter942000]

And yes, <font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">- (Great post KIM)!!!</font></font></font>

I wish the Others (could see things this way too)
meaning the detractors.

WE are supposed to be ONE BODY.
If a portion of the BODY has a tooth ache,
it will affect (Effect), the Whole Body.


1Cr 12:25 That there should be no schism in
the body; but [that] the members should have
the same care one for another.


1Cr 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all
the members suffer with it; or one member be
honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif




Don <*))><

[godchild]

<font color="ff0000">ISN'T IT WONDERFUL THAT THE SCER'S ENJOY BULLINGER'S WORKS; ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING BULLINGER BELIEVED IN THE RAPTURE!</font>}

[smyrna]

Hey, Godhcild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden, name one person in human history besides Jesus, that was perfect in all their works?

Maybe you should hold that same standard to your leader, Franklin, and see what you get.

Time to disappear again, Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden, before Joe L, gets mad at you again.

[godchild]

And your wife and kids left you why? I don't know any Joe L.. Sorry, was it your mormon friend or sc-spy who got the facts wrong once again. One should take more time taking care of hubby and kids. The other couldn't find his way out of a garbage bin.

What does franklin have to do with what I say? You are the one who follows a 'little god-man', not me.

[arron]

JESUS IS THE ONLY PERFECT MAN THAT EVER LIVED. HE WAS GOD/MAN. 1OO% GOD 100% MAN GOD MAN . NOW DONT COME UP WITH SOME IDIOTIC SAYING THAT THAT IS 200% for if you cant understand spiritual things you dont know anything any way

[smyrna]

Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden has a stranger in her house:

"I don't know any Joe L"..

Googling her name got this:

Sheet1
File Format: Microsoft Excel - View as HTML
58, STEINWEHR, ***JOSEPH L &amp; VIVIAN HADDEN***, ROGUE RIVER, OR, 97537. 59, TAFT, CARLTON R &amp; NANCY M, EAGLE POINT, OR, 97524. 60, TROMMER, REBECCA L, GOLD HILL ...
oregonianextra.blogs.oregonlive.com/uploads/284709
-jackson-OR.xls


I guess it was just a plant by an SC spyhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[preachers_daughter]

godchild, now this is only my opinion, but I think the reason smyrna keeps bringing up franklin, so frequently, is because the poor fellows obsessed with him. He seems to think about franklin night and day.


Night and day, you are the one
Only you beneath the moon or under the sun
Whether near to me, or far
Its no matter franklin where you are
smryna thinks of you


Why else would he mention him sooooooooooooooooo much?

And they called it puppy love
Oh I guess they'll never know
How smyrna's heart really feels
And just why he loves him so


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

[smyrna]

P_D, you'll have to be a bit more creative to shake this o'le boy up. You may forget, I'm a mariner. Those guys out there in the oil field can really dish it out. Plus I'm from Chicago, and you gotta be thick skinned to have grown up there.

That stuff about me being obsessed with franklin is child's play. Especially when it's apparently Godchild's night to party, if you know what I mean. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Oh yeah, almost forgot. I notice no one from the space crew really wants to get involved with that ridiculous illogical_al "study" about satan. But I don't blame anyone for staying away from it. Even the CBers must think it's crazy.

(Message edited by smyrna on January 16, 2007)

[arron]

i answer the satan study on cb. and they can talk with some sense not like here and also the ones that are coming to spy out cb is and ahve already been known in fact one has been reported to the adin for their actions and they said if it happened again they would be removed( wonder how long it will take for this to get back to cb)

[angie0401]

smyrna,
I think p_dee has a crush on you - she's writing songs about you and following you around. Isn't that sweet? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[smyrna]

Yeah, my wife might get jealous though. I am flattered, and it was astute of you to notice, angie.

[smyrna]

Arron wrote:"i answer the satan study on cb. and they can talk with some sense not like here..."


Smyrna: You call illogical_al claiming that satan is an invention and that satan is "God's lawyer" making sense?

And you bought Godchild's flimsy explanation that really satan is God's "prosecutor" which is NOT what illogical_al was claiming at all.

[preachers_daughter]

<font color="aa00aa">"I think p_dee has a crush on you" </font>


It's all because I can't resist his lovebombing. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[smyrna]

That's ok P_D, you're only human.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[preachers_daughter]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[godchild]

smyrna's post cracked me up. Quote: on thy belly thou shalt crawl, is a figure of sppech which denotes ultimate defat and humiliation.

Sounds like he's trying to say (with a mouth full of spinach) and someone has to crawl cause they are too fat to walk. That's what I call less than biblical scholarship. We'll have to quote that often. Like deana and ter like to. How can they do this to their children?

[smyrna]

Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden wrote:
"That's what I call less than biblical scholarship."

Folks, her comment can't be taken seriously. First of all, the Hebrew figure of spesch in question is well documented.Not only is it found in Gensis, but also Psalm 44:25.

Next, lets' consdier Godchild/VHH herslf.

She questioned the Virgin brith, based on the most fundamental of misunderstandings. Next, she did not know that teh Septuagint and the LXX were one and the same.

Those are just two examples of her extreme ingnorance regrding the Biblical texts.

So it's incredible that she tries to pass herself off as someone qualified to detemine the level of scholarship of somone else.

One more point: several days a go she agreed with one of the most erroneuous, speculative and misguided comentaries on the subjct of satan that I have ever read.

Therfore, her comment about me is just another feather in my cap, as each time she lashes out at me, she makes herself look more and more foolish.

Which of course, is my overall strategy, that she can't do much about stopping.

She is her own worst enemy.

[godchild]

smyrna (smyrna)
New member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.6.91.103
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 1:06 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love the way "billyfan" minimzies the rapture doctrine as a "a secondary teaching that we need not divide over." The rapture doctrine is very dangerous to any soul. It sets them up to accept the antichrist when he comes. I know that there are theologians who do not believe in a literal antichrist, but that's their opinion, though it is easily refuted. That Murray refers to those who teach such trash as "Idiot," "Jezebels," "Ignorant to believe such trash," and "Idiot, you're going to hell!"
I love it. It's about time someone got on TV and gets tough with these tabloid theologians who sell books and bumperstickers hawking a false teaching to make money on it. Like the "Left Behind" series, for instance. Murray's style may not be for everyone, but neither was St. Pauls' style either, because he got beat up a few times over it, just as Murray gets beaten up in a figurative sense by all these traditionalists, who thinks truth is defined as accepted orthodox teachings, which, by the way, you will get a different defintion for depending on who you ask.

[godchild]

smyrna (smyrna)
New member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.6.91.103
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 2:18 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to continue trying to defend Pastor Murray on this board. I think I have put forth enough evidence for anyone with control over their own mind to check the sources and compare who is lying and being cowardly over who is not.If they do this, I can't see how they can side with the liars and cowards, because they are lying and being cowardly for a reason. They are wrong. Peace to you all.

[yaqakallah]

WWJD?

Weep for the lost. He died for all of us and left very specific commandements including a new one.

'Love each other as I have loved you'.

Why oh why must you post past words to discredict you brother? Why not teach him with love and raise him up to God? Why pleasure yourself into making a mockery of anyone who 'trys' to love God with the understanding of his word which has been given to them?

So, he made hurtful posts to you, is this what God expects you to do in return?

These threads are so full of hate for one another. Satan is having his due and all we have is hell to pay for our sins.

This is not the way for a woman of God to behave. This is just sinful pride. Notice the date of the post, Feb 27, 2005...nearly 2 years ago.

May God have mercy on us all...

[godchild]

smyrna (smyrna)
Junior Member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 30
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 68.222.40.102
Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 3:16 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear,
Pastor Murray teaches that the Noah's Ark account is literal. However, he will not commit either way whether it was a local or universal flood. I don't blame him, but he does seem to lean towards a local flood, and I think that's the safe bet.

[sharon]

smyrna..You said...I can assure you, using the Word of God, that God would not tell you to stay out of the Churches. That would be like God telling you to stay away from Him, and if he really told you that, would would that tell you about yourself?

You assure me? You can tell me by your bible that God would not tell me to stay out of the churches? Which church do you think he should have sent me to to hear the truth, Catholic? Mormon? JW? SC? or should like Jesus I have become Jewish?
I am surprised that you speak for God! Are you sure that YOU can assure me of what he said? I would not trade my personal relationship with my Father for all the kingdoms on earth, let alone one man made church of any faith.
But you see like you, I did not believe that my Father really wanted me to stay out of the churches as I was just born again and wanted join with those others who were born again. What is a Christian without a church I thought? So I ran from church to church each getting worse than the last until I had to accept that my Father meant what he said. I have learned to accept what my Father says even if I do not understand why.

There are good people in all churches, in all faiths and in all colors. Each have a different relationship with God. There are evil people in all churches, in all faiths and in all colors. And he loves them all. And he asked me to do the same through Jesus. That of course includes you, and all here.
I know you do not see yourself as a leader, but you are one non the less, so please be careful where you lead for you carry the responsiblity just as Pastor Murray does for his sheep. So if you step over the line they will follow as in the detractor thread, you lead them into that mess, for when there is a band wagon many want to jump on just for the sake of being nasty or gang mentality. Do you know where that leads?

[yaqakallah]

Huh?

[godchild]

I shared that last post to show just one example of how students of am/sc, while defending him with all their might, do not agree with him. I also shared them to show these were scer's first posts on this board. That same post by smyrna ended with this:

quote:
How did they come to teach a literal talking snake, come up with an apple as the fruit in the story, and a man that not only built a huge boat, and but also must have gone on a world wide safari to get all those mammals, birds, reptiles etc. that were not indigeonous his region?

In the very same post, he gave am's opinion, then ended with his own. How can someone defend what he doesn't agree with? Some may say this is minor. I say it is major, because am also teaches, and his students believe, that some of the creatures on the ark were half-human, half satan. If that doesn't satisfy their listeners, they say it was those giants, the half-human, half fallen angels. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE SCRIPTURE TEACHES. IT CLEARLY STATES THAT 8 PEOPLE SURVIVED THE FLOOD. How can anyone accept these contradictions?

[godchild]

Here is another example of smyrna's contradictory posts, realizing it was a scer who brought the subject of kenites here:

smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 1480
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 66.157.43.229
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 9:25 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dodge,

You are trying to understand, which is good. The emphasis on the seedline of Adam/Seth/Noah is the focus in the Biblical texts. It is true that there is a separate bloodline of Cain, as Genesis clearly states.
The line of Noah, and later the Hebrew tribes,was kept pure through their refusal to go even outside their own tribes when marrying and bearing children. So strong was this inclination, we see that Lot's daughters even engaged in incest with their father, as was recorded in Genesis 19.(I can almost hear Franklin gasping for breath)

Cain's line, at least in certain cases such as the Nethinims, must have stayed close to their own, and let's keep in mind that there was a white representative race created on the sixth day, so Cain did not marry anyone of color, as some may allege or question.

Since the Bible itself states that there are Jews who say they are Jews but are the Synagogue of satan, in Rev 2 &amp; 3, we see that there is a remnant of cain;s bloodline at the end of the age.

However, as we have already noted, detractors are the ones obssessed with this teaching, in their zeal to discredit it.

But from the standpoint of SC students, and others who accept the two seedline teaching, it does not have a great deal of weight in the quest to understand God's plan. Jesus Himself even said just leave them be, let the Matthew 13:30.

I did hear Pastor Murray say that there are relatively few Kenites in the world, but many who have been influenced by their spirit, which of course is a reference to satan. This also harmonizes with the teaching that the spirit of satan is active in the world, demons, etc, but the antichrist is yet to come.

I know there is a difference of opinion, that
some believe all "Jews" are Kenites. SC does not believe this. Or all Orthodox Jews are Kenites. From a genetic foundation, how can we know?
-----------------------end
Of course he doesn't say ALL Jews are Kenites. Then he would have to say his scer sister terlu is a kenite. He won't go quite that far. Not only that, but from "a genetic foundation", he himself could be a kenite.

[smyrna]

No contradictions, just someone claiming there are.A word to the wise is sufficient.

[smyrna]

Sharon, take a chill pill.

Jesus established the Church, Scripture is clear on that. The many membered body of Christ is a common metaphor that holds true throughout Christianity.

It has always been the intention of God for those who believe in him to gather in His name. Those gatherings are judged by Him, not any man. And don't confuse judgements with opinions, for opinions of men are prone to be flawed, but God's judgment is perfect. Yet we are entitled to our opinions.

So please stop whining, and please stop pretending that the Detractor's adoption thread is something more than a joke.

I still find it amusing that the Space game over at cultbusters is never at fault, though it is a catalog of lies, insinuations, and false accusation, and is just a veiled base of attack against the SC and others the intolerant clowns that participate in it don't agree with.

[gone_to_pa]

Sharon,

Many times God tells us to stay out of the buildings. Why, because He alone knows exactly what is going on in the buildings surrounding us. Those who believe we "MUST" shopw up to a building are in bondage to Heb 10:25" Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" This is used by many to put folks in bondage to a building. We are told not to forsake assembling together, it doesn't say it must be in a building known as "the Church" In Gen 4:2 in the NIV it says " and later she gave birth to his brother Abel" Much better translation. They were twins. Twins don't come out at once unless something is wrong, usually one comes and moments, sometimes minutes later, the other of the twins emerges. Gee, I wonder why Moses left out all that Serpent Crap? Must be because it didn't happen.
And now another hit from the "Scripture Spin Doctors". " Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid taste great, wish we had some, Can't Wait!" Or Smyrna' and Washerman's new book. "Eve was Freaky" What you all have done to the mother of all mankind is a sin! Repent before it's too late. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot, God has revealed these truths LOL/NOT lies to just your group. That's God's heart isn't it. he loves the haves and the have nots. Makes him look partial, even though He says He is no respector of persons, He was only kidding. Washerman, the great teacher/ I know I have some stuff to answer for, but this adding to the Scriptures what is truly not there is warned against in Revelations. If you all weren't so full of yourselves, maybe, just maybe, you might study with an open mind. Once you have the lies of these twisted doctrines embedded in your souls, you will not give them up easily. That is what they made deprogrammers for. After watching Murray for about 10 minutes, I'm so sure he is a cult leader it isn't even funny. An arrogant one at that too. I guess that godly indignation the way he talks to some who have e-mailed him. He talks to some of them, like you all addressed me and many others who have fleed here because there is no spirit here, but that of lies and division. Just walk away from your computer for a month, then come back and read this place, and the thread on the Lake of Fire and watch how those from the outside are treated. Abrasive as 40 grit sandpaper. I'll be leaving again. Heading over to the fireplace Sharon and prop up my feet by the fire.

Smyrna, your only a sip away from joining the Jim Jones group, you and this entire group. Blind leading the blind.

[gone_to_pa]

Another central teaching of Arnold Murray is the serpent seed doctrine. According to Murray, Eve had sex with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. In 2 Corinthians 11:3, Murray uses the word "beguiled" to mean "wholly seduced". Hence, Murray claims the Serpent sexually seduced Eve who then became pregnant with Cain; the devil's literal offspring. Murray asserts that the offspring of Cain are called the "Kenites". He also states that the Kenites are not a race, "but a hybrid". (Genesis 1:1-6:22, tape #146) He thus seems to implicitly consider them to be less than human. Mr. Murray claims that many of the Kenites are Jewish! Based upon the "creed" of the Shepherd's Chapel, Murray states, "We believe in an existing Satan... who has a people who will not hear God (John 8:44-47)". (Our Statement of Faith, p.2) In John 8:44-47, the context clearly states that these people who are the "children of the devil" are Jews (8:31-58).

Hence, Murray believes that Jesus is referring to these particular Jews as the literal offspring of Satan. Regarding the Jews he writes, "Now, who stands in Jerusalem today?.. the sons of Cain or those who will not accept Jesus Christ.. the Kenites, that founded a new nation starting in 1948."

(The Shepherd's Bible, Commentary by Arnold Murray, 1979) He calls them "scum", and obviously makes the racial Jewish businessman remark when he states, "If you want to get a Kenite upset, bother his money table". (Parable of the Fig Tree, Tape #445)

Murray connects these Jews with Cain by Christ's comment in John 8:44 that their father was a "murderer from the beginning.. To affirm these Jews as the offspring of Cain (i.e., the Kenites), Murray refers to Cain's murder of Abel in Genesis 4.0ne can only conclude that Mr. Murray has made statements that label him as a white supremacist. He might tell colored people to be proud of who they are, but then again, so do some white supremacists.

The real questions the followers of Arnold Murray need to ask are: Does Arnold Murray think that non-whites are equal to whites in every respect? Does he approve of interracial Christian marriages like the Bible does? (Gen. 16; Num. 12 cL, Gen. 10:6 ~ Amos 9:7; Song of Sol. 1:5-7 cf., 3:7-11; 1 Cor. 7:39; Gal. 3:28 [note: The only type of marriage the Bible forbids is one between believer and nonbeliever: Ex. 34:14-16; 1 Cor. 7:39; 2 Cor. 6:14]) Would Mr. Murray let a black or a Christian of Jewish ancestry preach at his church-perhaps even take it over if he were to pass away? What does Murray think about the Jewish holocaust in World War II? What does he think about the Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan? These types of questions need to be addressed to Arnold Murray.

Oh Really, I didn't know he said all that..SCUM

[gone_to_pa]

Another central teaching of Arnold Murray is the serpent seed doctrine. According to Murray, Eve had sex with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. In 2 Corinthians 11:3, Murray uses the word "beguiled" to mean "wholly seduced". Hence, Murray claims the Serpent sexually seduced Eve who then became pregnant with Cain; the devil's literal offspring. Murray asserts that the offspring of Cain are called the "Kenites". He also states that the Kenites are not a race, "but a hybrid". (Genesis 1:1-6:22, tape #146) He thus seems to implicitly consider them to be less than human. Mr. Murray claims that many of the Kenites are Jewish! Based upon the "creed" of the Shepherd's Chapel, Murray states, "We believe in an existing Satan... who has a people who will not hear God (John 8:44-47)". (Our Statement of Faith, p.2) In John 8:44-47, the context clearly states that these people who are the "children of the devil" are Jews (8:31-58).

Hence, Murray believes that Jesus is referring to these particular Jews as the literal offspring of Satan. Regarding the Jews he writes, "Now, who stands in Jerusalem today?.. the sons of Cain or those who will not accept Jesus Christ.. the Kenites, that founded a new nation starting in 1948."

(The Shepherd's Bible, Commentary by Arnold Murray, 1979) He calls them "scum", and obviously makes the racial Jewish businessman remark when he states, "If you want to get a Kenite upset, bother his money table". (Parable of the Fig Tree, Tape #445)

Murray connects these Jews with Cain by Christ's comment in John 8:44 that their father was a "murderer from the beginning.. To affirm these Jews as the offspring of Cain (i.e., the Kenites), Murray refers to Cain's murder of Abel in Genesis 4.0ne can only conclude that Mr. Murray has made statements that label him as a white supremacist. He might tell colored people to be proud of who they are, but then again, so do some white supremacists.

The real questions the followers of Arnold Murray need to ask are: Does Arnold Murray think that non-whites are equal to whites in every respect? Does he approve of interracial Christian marriages like the Bible does? (Gen. 16; Num. 12 cL, Gen. 10:6 ~ Amos 9:7; Song of Sol. 1:5-7 cf., 3:7-11; 1 Cor. 7:39; Gal. 3:28 [note: The only type of marriage the Bible forbids is one between believer and nonbeliever: Ex. 34:14-16; 1 Cor. 7:39; 2 Cor. 6:14]) Would Mr. Murray let a black or a Christian of Jewish ancestry preach at his church-perhaps even take it over if he were to pass away? What does Murray think about the Jewish holocaust in World War II? What does he think about the Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan? These types of questions need to be addressed to Arnold Murray.

Oh Really, I didn't know he said all that..SCUM

[smyrna]

I really wish that GTP would stop posting his cut and paste garbage from antichapel sites.

We are not, at least I will not, dignify that refuse with any MORE suscessful refutations against that nonsense.

he is not helping his or CB's case against the SC by doing ths. We have refuted those accusations and misrepresentions before, all over thse boards.

It is extremely dishonest of him to post this stuff, knowing that we have indeed addressed the accusations.

It is a cheap, sleazy tactic to try and wear us down by reposting the same accusations over and over, We so often have chosen to refute them. But it is obvious they choose to ignore us. It is obvious they are playing games. It is obvious that they are trying to wear us down. It is obvious that is the only tactic they have left.

And let me remind them once again: You have people over at CB actually discussing wether satan is an ivnetion or not, who doubt Scripture is really talking about an entity.

Frankie comes on here talking about us, how we won't even listen to the very words of Moses. But "illogical_al" over at CB presents the Documentary Hypothesis, which theorizes that the Torah was written by several different authors! (known as P,J,E,D, strands etc.)

Why? Doesn't he agree with Frankie? or any of the thousands of Biblal scholars who do accept Moses wrote the first five books of the OT?

Sounds like trouble in CB paradise. So why come here with your allgations when there is heresy abundant over at CB? Clean your own house!

[godchild]

We love diversity at cultbusters. Anyone who isn't intent on being childishly disruptive is welcome. Those that come only to bring evil are not and are soon gone. The choice was theirs.

They could not leave it there, though. To this day they try to re-register under different names and ip addresses, just like they do here. Factnet can't keep up with it, so it continues to go on and on. There have been several attempts to destroy cultbusters and there are spammers who daily try to bring their pornographic filth there. Through continued prayer and God's grace, these types are twarted at every turn. God's Word will not come back void. He loves to see His children gathered together in harmony and love. We trust Him because He is faithful to His own.

Go the the scer's biggest discussion board. They laugh about their pastor who mocks and insults other leaders. They share books by those who believe in astrology, ufo's, pyramidology, numerology, and the doctrine that says Adam and Eve had sex with satan, that satan and Eve's descendant's are the Jews, who Christians know as God's chosen people. They talk about being the elect who don't need Jesus Christ because their salvation was decided before they ever came to this earth.

They wonder why people react strongly when they try to bring this garbage here or to other discussion boards they say they have been banned from. Any intelligent person would go back where they came from, the only place their heresies are accepted, except on neo-nazi and kkk boards.
They just don't get it, so we as good stewards will continue to expose and correct them, whilst they continue to deride and insult; calling Christians the "devil's tit" and other equally offensive and stupid names. And we will continue to pray for these lost souls, because what we suffer by hearing their words is nothing in comparison to what Jesus Christ suffered for us and them.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Christ,
the only way to life.

</font>}

[gone_to_pa]

When did God change the Serpent into a man so that it could have sexual intercourse with Eve? haven't read that in my Bible either. By the way, I'm a telemarketer and if you talk like crap to me on the phone, I can honestly say I don't always say, Jesus loves you. I guess Moses forgot to put that part in the Bible. Must of had a Senior Moment. LOLhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[gone_to_pa]

Dave, I couldn't agree more. The same yesterday, today and forever, Jesus, the sweetest name I know!!

GTP

(Message edited by Gone to PA on January 25, 2007)

[smyrna]

The only thing Godchild has exposed is her assinine allegations, her unsubstantiated claims, and her shameless hypocrisy.

No matter what disagreements anyone holds with the SC and its teachings, Godchild is clearly a nutcase. Therfore, I also urge newcomers to Factnet or to the SC threads to take a hard look at her track record.

I persoannly don't care if anyone agrees that my or anyone else's sarcasm and mockery of the detractors is offenisve. Because once again, St. Paul, and even Jesus, were very rough on their detractors, and we choose to follow suit.

Godchild's stupid allegation that the SC is a "dangerous cult" does not agree with what is historically known about the SC Church.

Not ONE person associated with the Chaple has ever been arrested for any racially motivted hate crime. Not one anti-semitic demonstration, Not one invasion of another Church's property to cause a disturbance, unlike the one where the SC studio was distrupted by one of the sicko detractors.

Not in more than 20 years has anything like that occurred.

So Godchild needs to come up with some EVIDENCE besides her stupid, ignorant opinions, which are born of hatred and malice.

Plus, she has yet another allegation she needs to prove: She said myself and Watchman were recently communicating with another object of her hatred, "John Cody", yet she has still not proffered any evidence to support such a charge.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Smyrna,
how many of the p[eople who are associated with SC do you actually know?

The reason I ask is because you cannot make such a statement unless you know every one.
People being what they are will do things you have no idea about.

There is no way you can claim that every SC'er is an upright citizen in good standing with the law.Unless there aren't very many of you.

How would you know who has done what?
That claim is quite a stretch.

Just some balance.

</font>}

[watchman_2]

gtp wrote,

When did God change the Serpent into a man so that it could have sexual intercourse with Eve? haven't read that in my Bible either.

LOL I guess that he missed that part of Genesis, where the fallen angels impregnated the daughters of man, thereby giving birth to the giants.

[gone_to_pa]

WHATS THAT GOT TO WITH """THE""" SERPENT? lolLOLOL. IF THIS WAS TRUTH THEN THE FIRST SIN WAS NOT DISOBEDIENCE TO GODS COMMANDS BUT FORNICATION. THE BIBLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR ON WHAT THE FIRST SIN WAS, BUT .......

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Sin had its beginning with Lucifer, the “shining star, the son of the morning,” the most beautiful and powerful of the angels. Not content to be all this, he desired to be the most high God and that was his downfall and the beginning of sin (Isaiah 14:12-15). Renamed Satan, he brought sin to the human race in the Garden of Eden, where he tempted Adam and Eve with the same enticement, “you shall be like God.” Genesis 3 describes their rebellion against God and against His commandments. Since that time, sin has been passed down through all the generations of mankind and we, Adam’s descendants, have inherited sin from him. Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).


Doesn't the Bible say that "THROUGH ADAM" sin entered the world. Did he too have sex with a serpent?


Whoever is wise, let him understand these things; whoever is discerning, let him know them. For the ways of the Lord are right, and the righteous will walk in them, but transgressors will stumble in them." (Hos14:9)

GTP/

[watchman_2]

gtp,

I think that you can research these threads and obtain the SC position, or you can get it from Munson. I have little patience to start the entire debate over with you since it has been thoroughly debated already.

Upon the conclusion of your research in these threads, I, or any SCer, can answer your questions.

[smyrna]

Good one, Watchman. These people are either truly stupid, or suffering from memory loss. They ask the same questions over and over and over, as if one day they will get an answer they will like.

I think we should take stand against that stupid practice. Let them do their own research, because all the answers are right here on these threads.

They know it, too. I don't know what their motivation is for asking the same questions, or making the same false accusations even after we have proven them wrong.

They don't have to beleive the way we do. But why don't they at least admit that we believe what we believe.

There are countless examples of the same people here making the same accusations, even after they were set straight several or even many times.

And I have always marvelled at people like GTP, who refuse to use common sense when studying Scripture.

He'd rather believe in a talking snake than be able to tie in the FACT of the fallen angels mating with women, with the earlier encounter in the Garden, and other historical allusions to such as can be found in many ancient texts, held sacred by the Jews, or even other cultures.

[franklin]

Answering a question with twists and perversions of Holy Scripture is not an answer. You never answer a question. Just twist and pervert.

Give us an example. Answer how this verse says that Cain is the literal son of satan. Do not go to another verse. This verse. No twisting or perverting.

"And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD."

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
God cannot make a snake talk.
He isn't God.

God cannot make Balaam's a$$ talk.
He is not God.

That is the stand of SC.
God can't do these things.
He can't turn water into wine,He can't heal a leper,He can't do anything that we cannot explain because they like to be able to put Him into a man made box which limits Him to what they can do and understand.

My responce to this is,
"Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."

</font>}

[watchman_2]

smyrna,

Of course, these detractors have had all of their questions answered with full documentation supporting the answers.

It is they that cannot prove their case. So, they resort to denial tactics such as starting the debate anew.

And, of course, there is Franklin's post above as a prime example. He has been proven wrong so many times; yet, he pretends that his question has not been answered.

So, in the case of most of these detractors, there is little point in proving them wrong again. They will certainly deny the truth. Hence, we would be casting pearls before swine.

[smyrna]

Dave,

The question is not whether or not He can do these things, but did He.

To compare the serpent talking with the miracle of Balaam's "donkey" is disingenuous.

You are well aware that SC does not accept the notion that the serpent was a snake, but a "Nachash" a glistening being that hisses lies, and that the crawling on the belly and eating dust was a hebraism, as are so many phrases and terms in Scripture.

You are sounding like Godchild,Dave,when implying we don't think that Our Lord Jesus worked the miracles you mentioned. We have never denied those things.

Please don't make up accusations.We get enough of that from her.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
It's just comparative analysis.
I appologise for taking it to the extreme.

My intention was to follow the logic to it's natural conclusion.
Either or but not both.(literal/figurative)

People are not consciously aware of the dark glass that we see through.
They forget that we cannot know fully as we would like,the things of God except through His Spirit's enabling power.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

We can only know in part.
That is one reason I claim that all of us have areas of error in some part of our theology.
It's just that some are way too proud to admit it ,even to themselves.

I am one who freely admits that I have many things to work out in my understanding of God and His attributes.
That I do not have a corner on the Truth and no one else does either.

Christ and him crucified.
That is what I do know.

</font>}

[hillbillygirl]

The reason you get tired of "TRYING BUT FAILING MISERABLY" answering the same questions over and over is that you have not found one twist or spin that makes a bit of sense except to you and your God Arnold Murray. Every frekin body else knows it's coming from a bunch of "SPIN DOCTORS"
You have washerman who is the closest thing to a leader this crew has, then smyrna and angie, the fine example of Jethro and Ellie May. And lets not leave out Granny ( terluvire or abiyah) Now that's a big decision trying to figure out which one's been hittin more of the corn liquer more. None and I mean none of you would know one word of truth is it were bayonetted through your skulls. Your about as spirit led as a worm. Without Arnold Murray you would slide of the face of the earth and become ride show jockeys for a carnival. As much as you all like to spin things the Merry-Go Round should be your hearts desire. Anyone who tries to befriend you, you make sure you get off on the right foot with them by letting them know how superior you are to them, and if their stupid enough as I was to attempt further communication, this belittling grows and grows until you are accused of not being spirit lead and the reason your leaving is you can't keep up with the cults superiority.
At first I didn't believe you were a cult, as I said, I must judge things for myself, and when I tried here I wanted it to be such a lie, but it wasn't. You have and show every charectoristic of a full blown cult. IOf you want some lessons I will start a new post if you wish, Called the Charectoristics of Arnold Murrays Cult. Am I a Kenite? Gee I wonder. Not by websters definition.
Where is some of the other who at least had a lick of sense here. You guys are legends in your own mind. See you at the White Throne Judgement about 1000 years after the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. I don't know how we'll get there since there is no Rapture in the gospel according to Spin Master Arnie. How is it that a woman can watch A/M for about 20 years and get up one day and start holering "He's a basphemer, he's a liar" " a charlotin" after watching him for so many years. I'll tell you how, she was also told to study like the Bereans. She told us he never always taught all that bul-****e he is preaching now, his doctrines are changing for he is an antichrist she says. This woman has been born -again for 75 years. She wouldn't miss him no matter how sick she was, now she says if she hears another one of his lies, she's goin to get her gun and shot the TV. She compares him to the JW's who come to your house with all these nice words and they seem so studied, but under that sheeps clothing is a ravenous wolf. I'll believe her over jn 8:44 washerman anyday! LOLhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif hg xoxoxox gtp

[hillbillygirl]

Also there are so many lies in this Wolves Den
( better name than sheppards chapel) A sheppard is supposed to keep watch over his sheep, but yours is leading you down a 1000 foot embankment and it won't be long before your going to lose your footing and you'll be like the pigs that Jesus sent the demons into. You going to run right straight to your ruin. In fact your doing a heck of a job now. Just keppa flabbering your jaws like ya'll have been. You don't need detractors to hurt you, your self righteousness is more arrogent than the Pharisee's and Saducee's of Jesus time. I will pray that your eyes are opened or that someone loves you enough to send a deprogrammer out your way. By now, it was really fun!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif HB i luv gtp

[smyrna]

Hillbilly girl is operating from ignorance. She wrote for instance:"Your about as spirit led as a worm. Without Arnold Murray you would slide of the face of the earth and become ride show jockeys for a carnival."

No, I would not "slide off the face of the earth" any more than those who listen to Billy Graham, or Pat Robertson, or even the Pope. ALL are good teachers, yet all have their own opinions and perspectives.

She also wrote:"Also there are so many lies in this Wolves Den"

Making accusations without documentation or any evidence is simply a stupid practice, a diversion to keep people away from the fact the author is not knowledgeable in what they are addressing.

One more point, she also wrote: "You going to run right straight to your ruin."

I've been a Chapel student for fifteen years. My life has never been better. I've never been happier. God blesses those who He favors, and in turn, I do more and more to please Him, and not some "Hillbilly girl", or Arnold Murray, or any human being.

[smyrna]

Frankie wrote: "Give us an example. Answer how this verse says that Cain is the literal son of satan. Do not go to another verse. This verse. No twisting or perverting."

Ok, we will, as soon as you answer the following verse. Do not go to another verse. This verse. No twisting or perverting.

Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

[godchild]

The word "hate" is defined "love less". God should be number one in our lives; if we love our family "more", we are ignoring the Bible which says to love the Lord with ALL our heart, soul, and spirit. If we are willing to do that, all the rest (family, etc.) will fall into place.
God wants good things for us!

[skooter942000]

<font color="ff6000"><font face="arial,helvetica">
Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jud 1:12 ¶ These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jud 1:16 ¶ These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jud 1:20 ¶ But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Jud 1:24 ¶ Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
</font></font>

[smyrna]

Godchild,

Though it is admirable for you to bail out frankie, in this case it does not.

Because Frankie's "rules" are basically not to try and interpret a specific verse, based upon cross referenceing and other techniques, but tom simply take it as it is written in the King James Version.
If anyone does use those techniques, Frankie calls this "twisting and perverting".

He made that clear.

So this does not bail him out this time, Godchild.

Hey, I have an idea. Since you are always looking out for Frankie, why don't you join our Adopt a Detractor program?

I'm not sure if a detractor can adopt a detractor, because that usually will not help them. But we'll see if we can get an ok on thathttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[franklin]

Genesis 4:1 Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain.


You don't need to cross reference, twist and pervert that. Moses wrote it simply enough. Adam is Cain's father.

[watchman_2]

franklin,

How many times do we have to correct you. Moses did not write chapter and verse numbers. In fact, Moses didn't add punctuation either.

So, based upon your brilliant analysis, if Adam sired Cain, then who made the woman pregnant in Gen. 3:15?

[godchild]

Well, my goodness. Take out the punctuation and what do you get? Adam knew his wife and she conceived and bare Cain. Duh! You can even take out the "ands" if you want; Adam knew his wife she conceived bare Cain. It doesn't change the meaning, now does it? In fact, without punctuation it's perfectly clear. Nothing about satan here.

[skooter942000]

It is CLEAR Both Children belong to EVE.

- "CAIN" is not in Adams Genealogy.

- is chapter 4 a mistake? no
- is chapter 5 in error? no


Rightly divide the WORD.
That's where the Errors are.

The first two verses in Chapter four
are a continuing thought.

It is not one thought,
- then another.


EVE Continued in LABOR. (TWINS she had)
- Fraternal Twins.

EVE birthed both children. (Clear as day)

Adam Sired ONE.
As did satan.

why does this confuse so many.



Oh, i know ....


There are TARES among the wheat,
- (CHRIST TAUGHT THIS).


- yet these do not believe CHRIST. Nor HIS words


The PUNISHMENT is Specific in GEN 3.
That is clear as day.

Aprons were MADE to hide where the SIN took
place.

- (Placed over their mouths)?

I don't think so ,
- (Placed around their WAISTS)




The Bible has Symbolism in it.
Revelation has the most.

Genesis - (In the first few chapters,
- has it share also).



- here is NAGA yet again.


= #5060

Gen 20:6 And God 0430 said 0559 unto him in a
dream 02472, Yea 01571, I know 03045 that thou
didst 06213 this in the integrity 08537 of thy
heart 03824; for I also withheld 02820 thee
from sinning 02398 against me: therefore
suffered 05414 I thee not to touch 05060 her.

= SEXUALLY


In Gen 6 Fallen Angels took women to wife.

TRUE or FALSE?

X__________________________


And since this is true. (for it is)

- we can see satan did it first.


WHY
WHY
WHY
WHY
WHY - (did he do this)

- Why did they do this....


to corrupt the seed-line of CHRIST.

- TO TRY AND CORRUPT IT!!!

- Just like some corrupt the WORD today.

The FLOOD in NOAH'S DAY killed of the Progeny
of the Giants. (Though there was a second influx)

But since satan did this FIRST,
These children were allowed to survive.

FATHER has HIS reasons. (Rev 2:9/Rev 3:9)
John Chapter 8 should help greatly here.


For if the seed-line of CHRIST became TAINTED,
would HE have been Born without Blemish
or spot?

Could HE have been the Perfect offering
for us to , (GAIN ETERNAL LIFE)?

- the LAST [chatta'ah]



- argue away.

I'll be elsewhere.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif




Lev 4:33 And he shall lay his hand upon the
head of the sin offering, and slay it for a
sin offering in the place where they kill the
burnt offering.


Lev 4:34 And the priest shall take of the
blood of the sin offering with his finger,
and put [it] upon the horns of the altar of
burnt offering, and shall pour out all the
blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:


Lev 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat
thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away
from the sacrifice of the peace offerings;
and the priest shall burn them upon the altar,
according to the offerings made by fire unto
the LORD: and the priest shall make an
atonement for his sin that he hath committed,
and it shall be forgiven him.


- The LIFE is in the BLOOD = ATONEMENT for the SOUL





From John 8
- He that is of God heareth God's words:






Don <*))><

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Genesis 3:15 makes no referance to Eve being pregnant at this time.
You have to add to scripture to come up with that because it says nothing about her being pregnant in the present tense.
It is prophecy of coming events at that point.


"And I will" indicates future tense not present active tense.

Eve was not pregnat in Genesis 3:15.
You only assume so.

</font>}

[godchild]

Abel is not in Adam's geneology. The geneologies were given to show "Jesus' lineage", which came from Seth, another son of Adam and Eve. Many sons and daughters were not listed in the geneologies. Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters (Gen. 5:4). Were they all "serpent seed"? Of course not. Therefore, the geneologies cannot be used as evidence that Cain was satan's offspring, and not Adam's.

[watchman_2]

As one can see from David's and godchild's posts, we have a typical detractor tactic -- pretend like their points have not already been debated and proven wrong.

One would think that they could, after all of this time, come up with a new argument.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">godchild said: Abel is not in Adam's geneology</font>

Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bore a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of <font color="ff0000">Abel</font>, whom Cain slew.
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

[godchild]

The geneologies are not the stories about the lives of the first people. The geneologies are named "The generations of Adam" beginning in Gen. 5:1. They are continued in other places in the Holy Bible.

By your rule, terlu, Cain is also named.

[godchild]

In strongs Hebrew def. of generations: descent, that is, family; figuratively history:-birth, generations.

In BDB it is defined as descendants, generations, geneology.

Once again, because all of Adam and Eve's son's and daughters were not listed in their geneologies, does not mean they were not their children.

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">

DAVID SAID:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " "And I will" indicates future tense not present active tense.

Eve was not pregnat in Genesis 3:15.
You only assume so. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

GOD's WORD SAID
Genesis 3:15
" And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed [=offspring; children] and HER seed [ offspring; children, it started with Cain=the serpents offspring &amp; Abel= Eve's offspring, you do recall who it was that SLEW Abel]; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. "

Genesis 3:16
" Unto THE WOMAN [=that being Eve] He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy CONCEPTION [ HER CONCEPTON; HER PREGNANCY, she has been impregnanated ]; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth CHILDREN; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. "</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

Question is ... will you believe David Munson who is man, and gives you man's word or will you believe The Word of God, God's Word is Truth. Your choice... God or man ?

Abiyah
</font>

[ezekiel_37]

Hello All,

I've been away for a week, and as I scan through the posts, much the same is going on as usual. This caught my eye.

Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 1:50 pm:

from Godchild

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The geneologies are not the stories about the lives of the first people. The geneologies are named <font color="119911">"The generations of Adam" </font>beginning in Gen. 5:1. They are continued in other places in the Holy Bible.

By your rule, terlu, <font color="119911">Cain is also named</font>.


This is a lie (or a mistake-judge by fruits), for Cain lineage is found in the generations of the Heaven and Earth in chapter 4, not in the Generations of Adam in chapter 5.

see Gen 5 and compare with Gen 2.
Cain's line is told to us BEFORE the generations of Adam are explained and titled.

<font color="ff0000">Gen2

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Gen5

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:



</font>This should point out that they(Cain and Adam) are not from the same generation(s)

This should also point out that the man spoken of in Gen 5:1 is "the man Adam" an individual, not mankind as many suspect through tradition.

This means that the next verses are also referencing the man Adam, and not all humanity.


So, for the record, the man Adam's lineage is separate from Cain's and is under a different heading, to further separate them.

The line to Christ is expanded upon in Scripture (obviously) but beyond that, godchilds post was not truth.

For those with open eyes and open ears
Peace in Christ Messiah
c

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Abiyah,
your assertion is not backed by the referances you give.
God was telling her what the results of their disobedience would be.

You haven't proved what you tried to.

It says no where that she was pregnant at the time of this "judgement".

</font>}

[watchman_2]

godchild,

LOL There is no comparison to Cain and Abel for being listed in Adam's geneology. Terluvire provided you the scripture, Gen. 4:25, documenting that Seth replaced Abel. There is no scripture that states that Seth replaced Cain.

Just another poor scholarly effort on your part.

[watchman_2]

David Munson wrote,

Genesis 3:15 makes no referance to Eve being pregnant at this time.
You have to add to scripture to come up with that because it says nothing about her being pregnant in the present tense.
It is prophecy of coming events at that point.


"And I will" indicates future tense not present active tense.

Eve was not pregnat in Genesis 3:15.
You only assume so.

I see that his reading comprehension skills are still lacking.

I suppose that he never quite read some of the scripture after Gen. 3:15. If he did, he would have recognized that, in verse 16, God promised to MULTIPLY the woman's pregnancy. Now, a thinking person would reason that God would have a difficult time multiplying something unless it already existed.

Oh yes, we are also edified in verse 20 how the woman received her name --- it was because she WAS the mother of all living.

Gee -- it sure seems that David is wrong again. No surprise to find that out.

[godchild]

When God says He "will" do something, it does not mean it was done in the past. If you say, "I will go shopping today" and you've already done it, that makes you kind of nutty, or forgetful.

[skooter942000]

<font color="aa00aa"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="+2">A+ </font></font></font>for ezekiel_37




<font color="0000ff"><font size="+1">[To the Message BOARD]
</font></font>

CAIN is not "Eth ha Adhams" child.


Many don't believe this -(BIG DEAL).



Doesn't prove we are in a CULT.




People wonder why the world is in disarray.
- We understand why.

JOHN 8 shows the who these guys are.

- they even said we were never in bondage to any man.

(Um, remember 400 years in Egypt)


- Who were these GUYS!!!


Study up on (TYRE).

-Then you will understand how the Moneychangers
came to be.



CHRIST was MURDERED (T/F)?

- By the TARES (T/F)?

The TARES are not Brother JUDAH.
JUDAH is GOOD.
JUDAH LOVES GOD.

These do not know CHRIST - (as a whole , yet).
- Some have, - (and are now CHRISTIANS)




There are TWO STICKS.

They are to remain Separate. (For good reason)

So the WORLD can have access to The SAVIOR.

- Whoever believes (WILL BE SAVED).




Study up on the Rechabites.
These are CAINS PROGENY.

Look at the Punishment in Gen 4.
Then take a gander at Jeremiah 35
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer035.html#1

- same Family - (same CURSE)



They made it through the flood.

They are the Nethinims (in part).


They are the Scribes CHRIST warned us of.
The same ones who stole the seat of moses.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees
sit in Moses' seat:


Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you
observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye
after their works: <font color="ff0000">for they say, ....and do not. </font>





- Where this all started

1Ki 9:20 ¶ [And] all the people [that were] left
of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites,
and Jebusites, which [were] not of the children
of Israel,


1Ki 9:21 Their children that were left after
them in the land, whom the children of Israel
also were not able utterly to destroy, upon
those did Solomon levy a tribute of bondservice
unto this day.



These are the ONES - (NOT JUDAH),
who murdered CHRIST. (...meaning Their ancestors)

The ROMANS only carried out the Orders,
because the FAKE ROMAN APPOINTED PRIEST,
did not have the authority to slay anyone.

BTW/ the Hittites/Perizzites/Hivites,
had the Fallen Angels Offspring mixed in as well.

- What a tangled WEB.

= Rev 2:9/Rev 3:9

Salvation is for whosoever will accept it.

Even a TARE can convert.
- (i hope they do myself)

- But Eternal LIFE is a CHOICE.


TARES are NOT JEWS, By BIRTHRIGHT,
- (they only claim to be).


- Anyone can convert ,(and believe as a JEW).


Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides,
which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple,
it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the
gold of the temple, he is a debtor!


- Think about that verse for a while.

WHO IS THE TEMPLE? (we put our TRUST in GOD)

WHO SWEARS BY WEALTH? (These place their trust in Earthly Possessions)




Don >*)))><

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
"Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
---
Please qoute properly Watchman.
Notice that her sorrow is first?
Also notice that the text is future indicative.

Watchman, "you" are in error.
(not that you would ever in this lifetime admit it)

</font>}

[watchman_2]

David,

God did multiply Eve's conception as promised in Gen. 3:16. See Gen. 4:1-2. Cain and Abel were twins.

Thank you for reading the scriptures finally. Let's have your acknowledgement that you were wrong about your claim that the woman was not pregnant as of Gen. 3:15. After all, God tells us who did it in verse 14 -- the serpent.

I'll await your acknowledgement.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
I acknowledge that watchman is in error where as it concerns this passage of text.

There ya go.

You can thank me later.

</font>}

[sharon]

watchman_2... Please point me to the verse that says Cain and Abel were twins, I do not recall the Lord mentioning this. I mean he did in other places where twins were born but where does he mention the word twins when speaking of Cain?
I know like myself I bore one child and then another but if I had bore twins I would say I bore twins, for why would I not say so, unless I was hiding something. Did the Lord hid this or did he say Twins? If not why?
This is a very important fact, and Jesus did not mention that Cain and Abel were twins, did he? Where is this coming from?
And I went and read you Gen 3:15 and I do not see how this says satan is the Father of Eves child, there is not mention of it, at all. Is it also hidden?
I want to understand why you think this but I do not see how you came to such a conclusion. It just is not there. I mean your Father told you that the sins of the parents are not put upon the child, how do you get past that? I mean it is what he said, is God wrong and the sins of the Father are upon the child? It is hard to see who you reached the spot you have come to, not without putting things in that do not exist. The Lord did not say twins, for others to do so is to put things in that do not exist.
I think you are trying to do the right thing and follow Jesus, but how does Jesus rebuking Peter for cutting off the guards ear and healing him set with Mr. Murray and his gun. He is not following Jesus in this regard. Please do not take this as a big put down, it is not meant to be. I just do not see how you can follow someone who is not following Jesus. One can not take the Christ out of Christian. If Jesus rebuked Peter who was trying to save his life, at the risk of his own, what would he say to Mr. Murray and his gun, Murray lost his temper, and was hurt by words. Jesus showed you something there, please see it for what it is , a gift. Not for us, but for you.

[watchman_2]

sharon,

You wrote,

Please point me to the verse that says Cain and Abel were twins, I do not recall the Lord mentioning this.

See the first clause of Gen. 4:2.

<font color="0000ff">Gen 4:2 And she <u>again</u> bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
</font>
The adverb 'again', as properly interpreted in the Hebrew, can only mean 'continued to'.

<font color="119911">H3254

ya&amp;#770;saph
yaw-saf'
A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing): - add, X again, X any more, X cease, X come more, + conceive again, continue, exceed, X further, X gather together, get more, give moreover, X henceforth, increase (more and more), join, X longer (bring, do, make, much, put), X (the, much, yet) more (and more), proceed (further), prolong, put, be [strong-] er, X yet, yield.
</font>
Hence, Cain and Abel were twins. Of course, the twins had separate fathers.

The fact that the first clause of Gen. 4:2 belongs with Gen. 4:1 is due to the corruption of the scriptures by the Kenites at the time of Nehemiah and Ezra, when the books were given chapter and verse numbers and punctuation.

I hope this helps you with your edification.

[yaqakallah]

May I just add this please. About PM and the gun. Why do we keep bringing this up? PM is a man, not God. He makes mistakes like everyone else. How do you know he felt convicted after the fact and repented? Does he have to send out a letter to every person on the face of the earth? NO! Jesus taught us not to throw stones and everyone keeps throwing the same stome at PM. IF what he did is not right with God then it is between him and God, right?

Plus, none of us knows the whole story. He was legally justified, that we do know. He was a Korean War Veteran so our Govt put a gun in his hand and trained him, no? He has the legal right to protect himself. How do we know that he had not gotten a series of letters/'phones calls etc. threatening his life, the lives of his family, staff, members of the Church etc? Can anyone prove the person who yelled blashphemy was not also armed? Anyone who has a problem with this should take this to prayer and stop throwing stones. God is in the know, he's in control and he is the judge. I would hate for any one of my past sins to be thrown up in my face for the rest of my life.

Remember King David? He murdered and committed adultry, yet God forgave him and set him in a position higher than any of us. We all know the story, right?

Many of you who keep throwing stones at PM would have probably tried to have King David executed for what he did. What would God think of you for those thoughts/actions?

Just some food for thought....

[franklin]

What seriously concerns me is arnie accusing Jews of being the spawn of satan. With absolutely no scriptural proof of such. Might as well be pointing a loaded gun at them.

In the 1940's the Nazis used that as an excuse to liquidate 6 million Jews. We are in the 21st Century now and people are still stupid enough to believe such demonic garbage!

That is the reason the thread was started about arnie and the sham shepherd's chapel. The danger to our lives and world peace this heresy represents.

Oh Yaq, who is the father of Cain?

Adam or http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif satan?

[smyrna]

hey, too bad that after literlly thousands of posts, Frankie still cannot admit that the SC does NOT claim that the Jews are "spawn" of satan, but that the Kenites are, and that they claim they are jews, but are not.

He also conveniently forgets that we have always stated that those who acutally are of the tribe of Judah are true Jews, and that Murray has always referred to them as "our brother Judah."

And therefore he is msirepresenting and lying.

[franklin]

uh, the Jews are those who are of Hebrew descent. Those you claim are the false Jews. The Kenites. The spawn of satan. Nice little spin of words. But if you insinuate that some of the Jews today are Kenites then you are pointing your finger at all of them. Hitler didn't discriminate. He killed all Jews.

arnie don't don't know shiite from shinola!

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hey Franklin, I'm Jewish. What are you going to do with that?</font>

[franklin]

So you say you are. I've heard you say that before. You claim to be Irish also. We are all a little bit of this. A little bit of that. So was Hitler. Didn't stop him from killing 6 million Jews.

How are you going to explain to your fellow racists and anti semite skinheads, kkkers, white supremacists, Christian Identity who you think the ok Jews are and who are the kenites?

You won't. There will be no discrimination when it comes to the next holocaust. All Jews will be killed again.

You are fostering the next Jewish holocaust. I am trying to prevent it.

[watchman_2]

As long as everyone goes through life in complete ignorance of whom the descendants of the peoples of the Bible are today, franklin is happy. The minute anyone points out whom these people are today, franklin cries racism.

I guess that it is people like franklin where is derived the saying, "Ignorance is bliss".

[franklin]

It doesn't matter as to who is descended from whom. In God's eyes as well as it should be in human eyes. Machts Nichts. It is only a tool for division for you. All that does matter is who we are today. Not who our ancestors were.

Wars and unceasing bloodshed have been insanely fought over some grievance based on some infraction of one person's ancestor toward another.

STOP THIS INSANITY.

There are no Jews, no blacks, no whites, no orientals.

Just Humans. Equally blessed and loved by God.

If God, who is perfect, can love all equally why can't you?

The only thing ignorant here on this thread is the Serpent Seed heresy. Racism, anti Semitism is total IGNORANCE!

I am pointing MY finger at you and telling YOU to stop this insanity. This hatred, this racism.

Walk away clean from Arnold Murray and his heresy!

You try to act like you are intelligent, then be so! Stop being ignorant watchman. Stop being brainwashed man. Stop being racist!

There ain't no spawn of satan. That is IGNORANCE!

Ignorance is not bliss. The ignorance and racist hatred of the German people led to millions of deaths.

Is that what you want? Millions to die again? You are spewing the same lies, the same propaganda, the same racist hatred as the nazis.

It doesn't matter whose ancestors were what. All that does matter is who WE are as individuals today!

[smyrna]

Hey Frankie, how is your breakdown going? Looks like your personal meltdown is in full swing.

If it doesn't matter who are ancestors were, than
why do people trace their family trees? Why did you recommend onehumanrace.com since it claims our descendents were "perfect" until "genetic mistakes" and a "curse" caused us to split into those separate races you now clim do not exist:

"There are no Jews, no blacks, no whites, no orientals.

Just Humans."

Real brilliant observation, Frankie. God created the separate races, they are not "genetic mistakes", Frankie.

Pastor Murray, who you claim falsely is a racist, has said repeatedly that everyone should be proud of their race, whatever race that may be, and that when God created man, God saw all that He created, and he declared it very good. That does not leave much room for genetic mistakes.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
'ivveleth iv-veh'-leth!

</font>}

[skooter942000]

From Franklin:

You are fostering the next Jewish holocaust. I am trying to prevent it.

------------8<--cut-------------


Franklin:

You are speaking to the wrong Group.


- Um, Talk to Radical Islam.

- Ever watch fox news?





TARES CLAIM TO BE JEWS

Rev 2:9
Rev 3:9


- But they are not. (Not Really)



There is a difference

Sorry you can not see this.



I have never seen a SC student
run around saying KILL the TARES.



BTW

- That would be WRONG!!!

- And i would speak out against it.





Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life.


Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the
world to condemn the world; but that the world
through him might be saved.

(Eternal Life is a CHOICE)


- But beware of Matt 25

[skooter942000]

- FROM Franklin

It doesn't matter as to who is descended from whom.


- Etc
---------------8<---cut----------------


- That's not quite TRUE.


CHRIST was to be BORN without Blemish nor SPOT.
- (T/F)

- Through a orchestrated (hand picked)Seed-LINE.



GOD Created MANKIND on the 6th day.
- (The BEAUTIFUL ETHNIC PEOPLES)


Eth ha Adham -(The MAN ADAM)- was FORMED,
- on the 8th day.



Chapter one had Hunters and fishermen.

Chapter TWO was a special man. (A tiller)



"ALMIGHTY GOD" was very Happy with his creations
that day , (Meaning the 6th),
- (Things were VERY GOOD).

- And HALLELUYAH for this FACT!!!



"FATHER" is the Potter
- we are the CLAY


Who are we to change what HE created.
- AS HE intended things to be.

Lev 19:19 ¶ Ye shall keep my statutes.
Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with
a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field
with mingled seed: neither shall a garment
mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.


The Above verse is Quite CLEAR.
- (is it not)?








Esau sold his Birthright.

- Was GOD pleased with him?

He Married Strangers.
Was this Pleasing to GOD?
(or to his earthly father)?

NO
NO
NO
NO
NO



Esau's BIRTH-RIGHT was taken from him,
and given to JACOB (The Supplanter/Heal catcher).

- All for a Bowl of Pottage.


Feed the Flesh and lose your heritage.

- Note this!!! -(there is a LESSON here)



Everyone should be HAPPY with their heritage.
Be "PROUD" -(not Prideful) - of it!!!

- Within Reason!!!


<font color="ff0000"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="+2">Not ONE race of peoples, are better than another.</font></font></font>





"ALMIGHTY GOD" is not a respecter of persons.
nor should we be, (understand what i mean here).

- EQUALITY is just that!!!


<font color="aa00aa"><font size="+1">Act 10:34 ¶ Then Peter opened [his] mouth,
and said, Of a truth I perceive that God
is no respecter of persons:


Act 10:35 But in every nation he that
feareth him, and worketh righteousness,
is accepted with him. </font></font>


- and that is a Wonderful Thing!!!
- (That's the TRUTH)



Don <*))><

[godchild]

I think I have made it plain that I left the mormon church 21 years ago. I was a member from the time I was 13. Being a child, I wanted to please my parents, naturally, and joined with them. I left in 1986 when I truly understood they teach that men will be gods. They don't teach that to most mormons; its not something they discuss in sunday school class. In the mormon church, you must be considered "worthy" to learn all their cultic doctrines. I was never considered that worthy because I seldom attended sacrament meetings, I smoked cigs and drank alcohol. Although I read the bom once, I found it to be a boring story about groups of men fighting other groups of men over and over again, having little to do with Christianity. It talked about Jesus visiting America after His resurrection (similar to the sc belief that the apostle Jeremiah went to Britian or Ireland, whichever). They also taught (as scer's do) that we were spirit children in heaven before coming to earth. (not unlike scer's they also believe they are the "true Jews". Much of mormon doctrine was rascist. I was raised in a rascist family, and never felt comfortable about that. The older I got, the more I realized the evil in that kind of teaching and thinking. One more thing similar in mormon and sc teaching is that js and am both used/use the Book of Enoch and other books not considered inspired by God.

Being an "unworthy mormon" I never went to the temple. In the first place, I lived far distant from any temple. So no, I've never worn the undergarments, that I agree are ridiculous. I had a spiritual awakening in 1986, even though I thank God that as a child I went to a Baptist Church with my grandmother, and was first baptized there, so I considered myself a Christian. God has dealt with me mercifully, and I am blessed every day for leaving that cult and standing against all cults who preach "man" instead of God. I will be happy to answer any further questions. Since I left the mormon church, I have not and will not place my name on the membership rolls of any man-made church or organization.

[smyrna]

Godchild wrote: "I think I have made it plain that I left the mormon church 21 years ago."

That doesn't matter any more than what occurred in Murray's past doesn't mater to you, that you choose that as a new way to attack him.

Godchild also wrote: "One more thing similar in mormon and sc teaching is that js and am both used/use the ***Book of Enoch*** and other books not considered inspired by God.

More insane ignorance. The Book of Enoch is part of the CANON of the Ethiopian Church:

"Whilst this book (Enoch)does not form part of the Canon of Scripture for the larger Christian Churches, various groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, regard parts or all of 1 Enoch to be inspired Scripture." Source: Wilkepdia

Let me also remind the "scholarly" Godchild that the Book of Enoch was quoted in Jude, a New Testament book.

The rest of Godchild's post is a rambling of excuses. I'm sure she still harbors those strange beliefs, maybe even practices the rituals.

After all, I have just as much a right to speculate about the repurcussions of her involvement with the Mormons as she does with her clownish "research' and subsequent insane speculations regarding Pastor Murray.

Most people think Mormons are whackos. Perhaps Godchild, being an admitted "unworthy mormom" because she is a boozer, can be seen as even a bit more looney than they are.

Godchild also wrote: "I have not and will not place my name on the membership rolls of any man-made church or organization."

Good! Sounds like you are ready to join the only Church actually founded by Jesus Himself.

"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church."

After all, Christs's Church is not made up of a bunch of Godchilds roaming the Internet claiming private revelation, as she and Frankie do. It is claer they consider themselves Biblical authorites, as they tooss around the term "heretic" at anyone who does not agree with them.

And in Godchild's case, she is moving farther and father away from the accepted Christian doctrines of MOST if not ALL Churches.

I wonder what reception she would get, if she started running aorund telling different Churches that Moses did not write the Torah, that satan really does not exist, or that Joseph was really Jesus's true father, even Mary admitted it!

Oh yeah, I know, Godchild later found out that he was Jesus' "legal" father, but not until after she openly doubted the Virgin birth for many days. Just a digression to show how unlearned she is, in addition to my comments above.

[skooter942000]

[GROUP]


Just because a person leaves a certain Church,
does not mean they have forsaken all of their teachings.


Remember the BREAD CRUMBS and The FEEDING OF THE MULTITUDES.


Some false teachings are hard to let go,
- (Some say).


- Do Mormons believe in a Rapture?




They used to come to my door.

"i am" _on the_ "DO NOT KNOCK" - (list) now.


They gave me a book (to read).
- it was not a Bible.

i accepted it
&amp; Read it

- Then when they came over again,
- i gave it back.

- And discussed the "BIBLE" instead.

- Though they wanted to discuss their book.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif





i live in a neighborhood that is 25-35% Mormon.
( ...At a Guess).

It used to be 50-60 %
- (Many have since moved or passed on)


I could hit the CHURCH with a BASEBALL
from my door step. (One throw)




Many of my Neighbors act Like CHRIST.
They really do.

Even my neighbors who are of Eastern Decent
act more like CHRIST than many here.


I would not accuse them, (of not having Eternal Life).
- Nor should anyone else , (To be honest).

- Just had to say this.



[ETERNALLY]
"WE HAVE ONE JUDGE"
"ONE RULER"
"ONE KING"






(The Most Important RULES)

LOVE GOD
LOVE THY NEIGHBOR , (as thyself)

If you are confused because of a CHURCH SYSTEM,
but still love your Neighbor ,
- (That is still a GOOD WORK).

That is still OBEYING GOD, (A best as you can).
(FATHER understands the Deception).

"HE" has warned us time and time again.


And the teachers who do the teaching,
have some responsibility and will answer for this,
- (When the TIME comes).

Tick Tock
Tick Tock




(....on JUDGMENT DAY),
we all will stand, before THE LORD, - (ALONE).

- And answer for ourselves.


How did we treat others.
&amp; How did we TREAT HIM ,
- (When sharing "TIME", with others).


Everyone should really think about this.


CHRIST did not PREACH HATRED,
- (Of those who would not believe).

If someone does not see things as you,
- walk away. (You tried to HELP)

- Kick the DUST (OFF).



We are to Discern
- NOT JUDGE!!!


- CHRIST sits upon the Mercy Seat,
- And there HE sits - (ALONE)




And HE will have MERCY for anyone
that is truly seeking it.

- But there is a TIME-TABLE here.



http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif



Accusing others, without a cause, is satan's work.


Don <*))><

[godchild]

<font size="+1"><font color="ff0000">smearna actually said one thing that made sense. His one truth after all this time:


smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 2188
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 70.156.93.70
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:11 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a gift. I've always been a smarta$$.


-----------------------------------

Now watch scooter's posts. He went on and on about how Christians say things he considers inappropriate for us. He's not going to say anything about the rest of smyrna's post on the thread about terlulu's dad being ill. But that's to be expected. They, especially terlulu, love smearna's sick humor. He who laughs last, laughs best. smearna's over there trying to convince terlulu his website "USED TO HAVE MORE fun CONTENT", insulting to Christian apologists, fundamentalist Christians, anyone who disagrees with the false doctrines of am/sc, his prophet.

While smearna's posts are, by his admission, all in jest, once again we are reminded not to take the fool serious. Except for him saying he's always been a smarta$$. Boy, did he get that right, and I'll end with the scer's little girl sounds; te-he. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif</font></font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Twist all you want godchild. I don't think any of us have ever outright lied or falsely accused any of you.

Opinions about behavior are one thing, but what you and your buddies do is state lies and falsehoods as fact.

Smyrna makes comment about all of your behavior, but I have not seen him lie or falsely accuse you or anyone else. That's satan's...... ummmmmm I mean you and your cohorts job.



Have a great day.</font> http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[smyrna]

Godchild drivels on:

"He's not going to say anything about the rest of smyrna's post on the thread about terlulu's dad being ill."

WHAT is she blabbering about? Should we even care? She's a pathological liar.

And Ter, twist isn't a strong enough word. Not "everything" I post is all in jest, I can assure anyone of that.

This morning she was whining about how we are being so trivial, and it's her that escapes to trivial whenever the going gets rough, and even does the disappearing act too.

She won't address her other lies and the thread we dedicated to that issue.

She blew her accusation about caucasians,and so she won't mention that anymore either.

There really isn't much more to say about the examples of her lack of knowledge on a number of issues,and we know they refuse to write the JDL, NAACP or any other national group to make their allegations about Pastor Murray.

She doesn't want to admit they were speculating about satan's very existaence, and who worte the Torah.

No, she won't do any of those things, at least without silly denials on the face of absolute proof. They even have Arron doing it.

Naw, she just wants to accuse US of being trivial.

[godchild]

hey, scoot. Why don't you get off your pooped up soapbox and go make sure your figgers aren't posting more photos of hollywood celebs and calling them kenites. That was really a nasty, uncalled for, and rude, hateful thing for them to do, don't you agree. I appreciate that you chewed them out for that and didn't want to be a part of it 'any longer'.

Hey, did you silly girls get photos of am and his sons in their 'priestly garb' which bonehead insists is necessary to perform ordinances for the members? That would be a hoot! I wish I had thought of it sooner, so I could of asked you to take photos of your 'ha-ha' legs with a big sign over your 'upper torsos hiding your faces' saying "Just for you, godchild." Darn. But again, if they do wear all that 'priestly garb', you'll have to prove it, even if it takes you another year like the 'sc church building'. Boy, that bonehead. He's a pretty patient boy, isn't he. lololol Kind of lazy though. He keeps talking about adding to his little website but just never gets around to it. Well, its not important anyway. No big deal. No great loss! Did he get you girls to pop over there every once in awhile to bring his visitor numbers up. What a great idea. Ahem! Did you learn anything new, lololol! More hate language, like "stomp am critics." Boy, that's scary. What a great job he does, don't you think?

<font size="+1">You all love humor, huh? Here's a big laugh. bonehead wants to be a writer.....and a boxer. lololololololololololololol

I'm still waiting to hear if am and his boys wear OT priestly garb when they do communion, etc. Hey, has bonehead told you those in authority must? You ought to discuss that with him. Then all of you can go ask am the why's and how's and who's, you know? Gee, maybe next year we'll see photos of passover with am in drag. Ha-ha! Is that what he was doing in that barn, or shed, or whatever that was, that shocked a worker so bad she quit working there. OOOOOHHH!!! Mustn't talk about that anymore at the figgie tree. Shhh!</font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Wow, godchild, you seem to be really upset that those pics were posted. I bet it just ticks you off that we proved you wrong about there not being a church.

Why do you care what Pastor Murray or his sons wear. If anything, you should be concerned about your own clothing:</font>

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

<font color="0000ff">Hmmmmmm I wonder what you will be wearing godchild?

Signed (your pet name for me)
Mongrel http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif</font>

[smyrna]

Ter, You're right! I remember that Mormon underwear! She ought to worry about what she's wearing, instead of sticking her nose in others' business!

Anyway, here is what started this whole thing;

While she was busy ignoring me, she did this:

She really has made a fool of herself today so far.

She tried to say the Catholic Church, whose Priests wear colorful vestments during Mass,(as do orthodox and many others) and their beautiful buildings (she sure is hung up on buildings, isn't she? She denies they exist, or if they do exist, she complains they are too showy!)are too pretentious, or as her exact word, "dramatic"

So I point out to her that God Himself gave instructions for both the vestments and the ornamentation for the Tabernacle, as is recorded in Exodus. The Catholic Church just carried on the practice later in time.

So instead of admitting that she stuck her foot in her mouth again (like what's new)she then begins complaining about how Pastor Murray doesn't wear robes or dresses up his Church.

Maybe she can ask the Minister of the Community Church she says she is going to, except she apparently hasn't been there yet, the same question. She can also ask any number of the Protestant, Fundamentalist Churches, who may even say they don't copy what the Jews do!

Anti-semitic, you bet!

By the way, she sure is trying to cover the bases. Today she posted to the what was dead Let's Talk About Satan thread at CB because I've been challenging them to post they don't agree that satan doesn't exist.

And since pointing out Jesus' teaching that she should participate in public worship,all of a sudden, after months of claiming she can't trust Churches so she's not going, she has decided to go to Church!

At least she's learning.


Who cares if am/sc has a church building? I think smyrna is lying about it."- Godchild

"...whose ministry *****is not held in any building****...." -Godchild