Students of SC LOVE Our brother Judah [Archive]

smyrna

03-05-2007, 07:07 AM

Despite the ignorance of many of our detractors, who are in reality Bible doubters, and constantly falsely accuse the Chapel of anti-semitism, we LOVE our brother Judah!

And here is one reason why we love them, and also recognize that there are those who "claim they are Jews,but do lie, and are of the synagogue of satan" Revelation 2 and 3.

http://www.familybible.org/About/WhatIsMJ.htm

Check out the material about the Messianic Seal there,too,it is fascinating)

Now we don't just love Messianic Jews, but also those who may very well be on the way to accepting Yashua as their Messiah.

And since we don't know who those may be, we are open to all, and know our Father to be their judge,and not us. We are not to disturb the tares, as we may also disturb the wheat, (ref. Parable of the wheat and tares)

Now I know that some detractors will hate this message, because they will have one less reason to hate us. But they won't stop accusing us, because they accuse us day and night. Now the quiz question is who is "the accuser" in Scripture?

(Hint:Rev. 12:10)

david_munson

03-05-2007, 03:54 PM

Who would disagree that we are commanded to Love "all men?"(loveless people)
Here is another command we should apply ourselves to,
1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

It makes no matter who is or is not a "kennite".
We are not to be occupued with such useless matters.("for they are unprofitable and vain.")

(God's own Word on this issue)

}

smyrna

03-05-2007, 04:21 PM

I concur. If you notice, only some of the detractors (such as Frankie/Oneway, Godchild) are so preoccupied.

There is so much more to God's Word than Genesis and debating the rapture theory or any aspect of eschatological research.

Too bad the detractors keep us bogged down with their obsessions. But we can;t let them falsely accuse us, which they continually do, drawing all sorts of foolish conclusions, and treating them as if we actually believed that way.(racism/anti-semitism)

I don't want this thread to address any of that. I would like to see it speak about the overall relationship between Jews and Christians, and I think the Messianic Seal should be a spiritual stamp on this thread, as it is a most fascinating discovery, and in a way very prophetic.

oneway

03-05-2007, 05:01 PM

smyrna,

you stated: "I concur. If you notice, only some of the detractors (such as Frankie/Oneway,
Godchild) are so preoccupied."

I totally agree with you. I have been far too preoccupied with this ss doctrine, who is Cain's father etc of lately. But I have learned from it and not all has been in vain for me.

You stated: 'There is so much more to God's Word than Genesis and debating the rapture theory
or any aspect of eschatological research."

Again, I agree. We are all guilty of this. So why are we not discussing other things?
But then again, I'm reminded of the sobering fact that this is a cult awareness forum. So we also need to keep this in mind. I just assumed this was the reason why some of are here, to expose presumed cults for what they are. For that I can't apologize.

smyrna

03-05-2007, 05:21 PM

I can't speak for anyone else, but my reason for being here is to defend against those who call SC a cult, and apply all sorts of accusations to that idea, based not upon the teachings, but on their own or other critic's opinions of the teachings.

With that being said, I really would like to talk about the Messianic Seal. Have you seen it and read about it?

http://www.familybible.org/About/WhatIsMJ.htm

skooter942000

03-05-2007, 07:30 PM

'i' support Brother JUDAH.

- Where is the HATE in this?

Some keep digging a PIT for themselves,
by ACCUSING CHRISTIANS. (With FALSE LIES)
- By bearing FALSE WITNESS.

- Enjoy the RIDE, (While it lasts).

(...It's in the BOOK)

Pastor nor SC, - teach pure hatred ,
- of any ethnic peoples.

That would be RACIST.

(And after 10,000 hours, of Lectures with SC),
they have never done this!!!

- AS GOD is my WITNESS. -(HE IS MY WITNESS)

They never said ONE RACE is Superior of another.

ISRAEL (the Natural Seed of Father Jacob),
have certain duties to perform.

- That's ALL.

They are a CHOSEN NATION -(BY GOD).
- Not by MAN.

But this does not mean they are better than any other peoples,
- (Not by a LONG SHOT)!!!!

"GOD" is not a respecter of persons.

- Accuse GOD or being RACIST?
- (Would you)?

Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to
love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways,
and to keep his commandments and his statutes
and his judgments, that thou mayest live and
multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless
thee in the land whither thou goest to possess
it.

Some spend too much time on the HALO-DECK.
Giving away fake Trophies.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

- You know who you are.

Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God
[is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath
chosen for his own inheritance.

Psa 33:13 The LORD looketh from heaven;
he beholdeth all the sons of men.

Psa 33:14 From the place of his habitation he
looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.

Psa 33:15 He fashioneth their hearts alike;
he considereth all their works.

[AMEN '&' AMEN]

Don <*))><

smyrna

03-06-2007, 08:30 PM

About the Messianic Seal:

http://www.familybible.org/About/MessianicSeal1.htm

This is a fascinating find that all Christians should read about.

Here is an excerpt from the site:

FOUND: The First Century baptismal grotto of James the Just and the Apostles on Mount Zion, Jerusalem. James, the brother of Jesus, was the leader of the first Nazarene (Messianic) church located in the Upper Room on Mount Zion.

Our story begins in 1963, when a small ceremonial silver lamina (a thin plate) was found in the Judean Desert near Jerusalem, dating back to the first Century. A Catholic priest and archaeologist named Emanuel Testa deciphered the Aramaic text of this artifact, the first line of which reads: “For the Oil of the Spirit.” Testa was amazed to find that the text was nearly identical to James 5:14-16. This tiny lamina (3"x1") is a sort of pass card or certificate of belief in Jesus, used in early Jewish-Christian baptism to confirm the forgiveness of sins and “right of passage” into the Kingdom of Heaven.

This text from the Book of James clearly indicates that the earliest Jewish Christians anointed believers with oil. What has not been clearly understood until now is how this anointing was connected with baptism and the entry into the faith. This is no longer a mystery.

(Note: If you read the rest of the story, you will also see that KENITES are keeping this find as secret as they can, the same way they are trying to "prove" the James Ossuary (see www.bib-arch.org (http://www.bib-arch.org)) is a fake.

david_munson

03-07-2007, 02:00 PM

Are you sure the Klingons aren't the ones?LOL.

There's those genealogies again.Titus 3:9.

Admit it.You don't know who is or is not a "kennite" and it makes no difference anyway.
The Lord isn't concerned about whether or not we know who is a "kennite" or who is what for that matter.
He says that we are either with Him or against Him.
That is what places us in the "His children catagory" or not His children.
Saving Grace.

}

smyrna

03-07-2007, 02:45 PM

Dave,

"The Lord isn't concerned about whether or not we know who is a "kennite" or who is what for that matter."

"Ye shall know them by their fruits" Jesus, in Matthew 7:16.

It's much easier to discern, knowing that the IAA is not looking out for you, but rather, their own anti-christian sentiments. They deny anything that may shed light on the life of our Lord,as far as archaeological discoveries go.

You cannot discount out of hand geneaologies, at least how you apparently understand Titus.

Titus was written during a time when the Gnostic sect was quite active,and their doctrines dealt with the emanations of Aeons, briefly explained here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01173c.htm

You are taking that verse in Titus completely out of context and using it to fuel your own bias. Not good.

Based upon your thinking, I guess we can just skip over the genealogies in Genesis (like most do and miss that Cain's and Adam's don't mix) and Luke 3, (where Seth, but not Cain can be found) Or Chronicles, Samuel, Judges, and Kings.

Why all those genealogical information if God wanted us to just ignore it? God's Word does not contradict itself. You apparently have no problem believing it does.

As for the Kenites, yes, genetically, we need not look for them. Sin is sin, and deliberately trying to deny the history of the life of our Lord is not good fruit, no matter who does it.

But once again, we are warned about the good and bad figs in Jeremiah, and we can tell who are the the bad ones in the IAA.

Now this digression is taking away from the beauty of the Messianic Seal.

Have you even bothered to read about it? Or are you like the other detractors, who just want to go negative on anything we bring forth?

david_munson

03-07-2007, 03:48 PM

Since when do I "go negative" on "anything" (sounds like an inferance to everything) you bring forth?
I have actually agreed with some things you have brought out.
Just expressiong a differing viewpoint isn't negativism.
It must be hard not to narrate for the opposing view in order to advocate a position not held by the other party.
(that's a bad habit by the way)

Matthew 7:16 talks nothing of "Kennites" but of the lost souls in this world.
(which is anyone who isn't a part of Christ)

This is what is refered to as useless genealogies.
Using genealogy to try and determine if someone is or is not a kennite.
That is not what we are to be about.
Genealogy has it's place and has it's out of place too.I don't deny that at all.

Genealogical debates are of no discernable benefit where as it concerns growth in the Spirit.

This is not to say that they are of no value in some respects.

}

smyrna

03-07-2007, 04:49 PM

Dave,

Ok, man, and that goes for explaining why Cain is not in Adam's genealogy, nor did he make it into the Luke 3 genealogy either. There is great value in knowing that.

Matthew 7:16 INCLUDES Kenites, as well as other lost souls that follow evil.

Unless you want to deny it without knowledge, Kenites are referred to in five different Books of the Bible.

And Strong's says this about the term: "From Qayin {kah'-yin}" and it has been demonstrated over and over in Scripture that they were evil.

So saying someone is a Kenite is like saying someone is a scoundrel,and the IAA is certainly full of scoundrels.

david_munson

03-08-2007, 03:09 PM

All men are evil.
What do you think the sin nature is all about anyway?
Neither you nor I can name anyone but Christ who is without a sin nature.
The sin nature is the root of evil in our lives.That is why it was required that the sentence of death be imposed.
That is why the Cross was necessary.

If you pointed a "Kennite" out to me today they would not be more or less evil than anyone else is.Lost is lost.There are no degrees of lost.
Like there are no degrees of salvation,either you are saved or you are lost.

It's like saying that a woman is partially pregnant.It just isn't valid.

I don't know that you do this but if you want to occupy youself with finding out who is and isn't a Kennite you have the freedom to do that.
I just don't think it's all that important.

I look at all men as equal.
Equally sinful.
Equally lost.
Equally given the chance to become a son of the Living God.

Would it matter if we found out that we where Kennites?
I doubt it.
I think we would agree that it does matter that we have a relationship with the Son though and that is the most important thing.Everything else is secondary ,which is fine.
Mt*6:33.

}

smyrna

03-08-2007, 05:20 PM

Dave,

You have a wonderful way of simplifying issues.

Anyone familiar with typology in the Bible knows that there are diabolical counterfeits to nearly all that is good. Some obvious examples are Christ and antichrist, the Tree of Life, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. No matter whether one believes those trees have bark or are symbols of Christ and satan, one is a counterfeit of the other as their roles are described in Scripture.

This paradigm is so prevalent, that Scripture itself is structured in a similar fashion. I suppose the term duality is appropriate.

Even in physics, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

In this particular case, we have people who are predisposed to righteousness. If this were not so, they would never have been called saints in Scripture. The term is found in 24 books, both OT and NT.

The counterfeit, or opposite, if you will, are those predisposed to evil. (Genesis 6:5)

The Dead Sea Scrolls speak of children of light, and children of darkness.

Both have sinful natures. The difference is how they approach life. Neither can change without God's help.

The righteous cannot remain righteous, and those who are evil cannot be saved from that predisposition, that possession, if he will not repent and ask God to give him strength to change.

In the case of the Kenites, they are the opposite of who Jesus called the salt of the earth.(Matt. 5:13) They are couterfeits,they are opposers of all that is good.(II Timothy 3:3)

Kenites have one purpose: to deliver evil into the world and to perpetuate it. Their opposites are the righteous, the saints, the elect.

And this is most important: No one can judge whether one is actually a Kenite, or just being influenced by the spirit of satan, nor does it matter. That is up to God. But we certainly can suspect those who seem irrevocably loyal to evil.

An analogy is someone who is a professional thief, who recruits someone to help them in a heist. The person hired is not a professional thief, but he is allowing the thief to influence him.

Both have an opportunity to turn from their ways, but it is way more unlikely the professional thief will give up his only way of life, while the hired hand, so to speak, can always go back to what they were doing before being led astray.

The righteous are not immune from evil, but more unlikely also to turn away from their righteousness, than those who are weaker and more easily influenced.

The salt (light) of the earth, vs the wormwood (bitterness) darkness, of the Kenites:

"For they have gone the way of CAIN..." (Jude 11)

Now ask yourself if it would matter if you found out you were a Kenite.

ezekiel_37

03-08-2007, 10:31 PM

HI guys and gals

How's life?

Dave wrote

If you pointed a "Kennite" out to me today they would not be more or less evil than anyone else is.

That is your opinion, but God tells us all about the tares and their evil, as He also warns us of them in Rev2,3!

The children of the Devil. Seems like they (of the kenites that work for Satan) are in a different league than the rest of humanity. They are the ones that we are to look out for, to realize, to teach others about, because their deception is so powerful that even Christians can and are fooled, some into thinking that they(kenites)are not a threat....or don't even exist at all.

After all, imagine what would happen if these kenites (tares/scribes) were to pretend to be Jews/Christians, and run churches and synagogs!

.....we would have a vast multitude of different opinions and teachings on God's Word. Imagine that, most have no meat and some even get the milk wrong. That is not thanks to the Holy Spirit, but the works of Satan and his.

Now that is worth investigating.

All leads to the synagog of Satan.

Lost is lost.
There are no degrees of lost. 

Are you aware Dave that there are going to be many souls saved in the Millenium? Those souls need to be refined as gold is made pure. And they are lost now. So, we have some now, who are found, some who are lost, some who will be saved after the 7th trump, and some to be utterly destroyed forever in the Lake of Fire.

That seems like there are "Some" that are more lost than others, as "some" will someday overcome....and others will never.....!

There are to be many souls that are going to be destroyed at the White Thrown Judgement!

Like there are no degrees of salvation,either you are saved or you are lost.

Degrees of Salvation...
hmmmm.
well Saved is Saved, but there are roles and responsibilities that the "elect" have in both the Millenium and the Eternity.

Some will enter Heaven (Paradise)with insignificant clothing and others shall be dressed as royalty.

Getting in....is getting in, but there are definite degrees of Salvation.

10,5,1

I love you brother,
eyes and ears!

Peace in Christ
c}

david_munson

03-09-2007, 02:04 PM

Ah Zeke,
you mistake rewards for salvation.
Like you agreed ,saved is saved.
There are loss and gain of rewards though.
We can loose many things that we would have received because of disobedience in areas of our lives.

Timing isn't a degree of salvation though.
It's just that some come at different times than others do which doesn't make them less or more saved,just saved at a different time.

Take the thief on the cross.
He received salvation and is saved just as much as any saved person can be.
What will he receive for rewards?
I don't have the faintest clue but he will receive some rewards/benefits for his trust in the Lord.

There are many different positions in the body of Christ with many different gifts to benefit the body as a whole but all have the same Spirit.
(who are His)
---
I don't see any part of humanity as better or worse than any other.
(I don't subscribe to the theory of dual seed humanity.)
I see lost souls in need of a saviour.
I see no half satan ,half humans anywhere.
Just lost souls that I have a duty and a privilege to show the Love of Christ to.

I once was lost but now I am found.
Was I a kennite?

It really doesn't matter because Christ died for the lost.
All where lost.
All where died for.
Some will come while many others will not and still He came to pay the utmost price for all of us knowing many would reject Him.

---
Satan is not an equal opposite from God.
He is not omniscient,omnipresent or omnipotent.
This makes him less than equally opposite.
He is in opposition to that which is superior to him.He is just in opposition to God.

Being a created entity makes him subordinate to God in all ways.
He is not God's opposite ,he is in opposition to God.
There is a huge differentiation between the two which makes them completely incomparable as equal opposites.
Not that that makes him any less dangerous to humanity.He is out to seek and destroy all the lives he can.So we must watch and be filled with the Spirit of the Lord while we wear the armor of EPH.6:10-18.

}

smyrna

03-09-2007, 03:55 PM

Dave wrote:

"I see no half satan ,half humans anywhere."

Come on Dave, that's like saying you can tell the difference between an angel and a fallen angel by their appearance only.

You also wrote:

"Satan is not an equal opposite from God.'

Where has anyone claimed that satan was an opposite exact equal of God?

He IS an opposite exact equal of a Cherub, as we can see from reading Ezekiel 28:14-15,and since I can point you to those verses, you know I never meant it that way in my previous post.

ezekiel_37

03-09-2007, 09:30 PM

Hi there guys,

David,

Hello there.

God is the Creator....
Satan is a fallen angel.....

Huge difference, I did not imply otherwise.

But anyway, you just so happened to mention a subject that I am studying on.

You said

Take the thief on the cross.
He received salvation and is saved just as much as any saved person can be.
What will he receive for rewards?
I don't have the faintest clue but he will receive some rewards/benefits for his trust in the Lord. 

Now that thief had a criminal, bad life(for whatever reason).

After the thief's death, he was going to the Other Side of the Gulf in heaven that Christ teaches about. Most think of this as hell. The side without Abraham...or the Thrown of God.

Jesus did not go to The Good Side of the Gulf but instead went to the Bad Side and preached there to those all the way back to the days of Noah...meaning the beginning, and many were saved. I now believe that this is where the thief went and where Jesus would "see" him in heaven that very day. The thief's belief and true conversion on the cross would save him from the other side of the Gulf, and get him to the Good Side, awaiting Judgement.

Any thoughts, from anyone?

I'll be back on Monday!
Bye-bye

Peace in Christ
c

}

smyrna

03-09-2007, 10:29 PM

Ezekiel wrote:

"After all, imagine what would happen if these kenites (tares/scribes) were to pretend to be Jews/Christians, and run churches and synagogs!"

In some cases, they already are. Contrary to what the detractors say, we do not believe that ALL who claim to be Jews are Kenites. We don't claim that ALL Christian teachers we don't agree with are Kenites. We don't believe that ALL Muslim people are Kenites, etc.

Actually, there is no difference between the actions of Kenites and the actions of those who are influenced by Satan. They are both predisposed to do evil things.

Why do you think Jesus warned us not to try and harm the Tares?

Matthew 13:28-30

28
"He (Jesus) said unto them, An enemy (satan) hath done this (sown the Tares).The servants said unto Him, WILT THOU THEN THAT WE GO AND GATHER THEN UP?

29
"But He said NAY; LEST WHILE YE GATHER UP THE TARES, YE ROOT UP ALSO THE WHEAT WITH THEM."

30
Let BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST:and in the TIME OF HARVEST I will say to THE REAPERS; Gather ye together FIRST the TARES, and bind them together in bundles to burn them:but gather the wheat into my barn."

This is something the detractors don't want to hear from us, because it shows that we are fully aware that we are not to try and harm the Tares, but let God take them at the harvest, the end of time, the Judgment.

Frankie and his gang are liars, when they say the SC teaches antisemitism, and are like Nazis who hate Jews.

The teaching above, which we as student are fully aware and that the SC teaches, shows that they are lying.

This is why it is doubtful you will see them comment here, unless it is to say something whether totally unrelated to the subject, or some other example of ignorance and stupidity.

We love our brother Judah!

david_munson

03-10-2007, 02:37 PM

Well Zeke,
we have a disagreement on where the thief went.
I don't believe that he went to the side that the rich man went to.
I believe he went to Abraham's side.

No one gets saved in hell.
(on the bad side ,as you say)
That is not Biblical.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
No second chance after death.
Choices have all been made at that point.

I believe that when He led captivity captive ,he took paradise into heaven along with those waiting within it.

}

ezekiel_37

03-12-2007, 07:16 PM

Hi there David....
for your review, 'casue He did! I know you just referenced Eph8 but there is much more.

Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Romans 10:6-8
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from abovehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

1 Peter 3:18-20.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

More aswell, do a google search on it! Too much proof to discount. He did go to the other side and save many, back in Noah's days....and before...

afterall that would only be fair, to give ALL those who lived and died before Christ, a chance at the same GRACE through the Messiah. Not to mention all those who had never even heard of Christ while they were alive.

As for your last statement, no one is in Heaven/Paradise with God, but the Father and the Son. None.

All(good and bad)are awaiting either their role in the Millenium or the D day at the White Thrown Judgement, not in Heaven/Paradise.

Hope that helps.
Peace in Christ
c

ezekiel_37

03-12-2007, 07:19 PM

Now may be the acceptable time for Salvation, but it is not the only time...the Millenium is coming and many will be saved then....

Peace in Christ
c

david_munson

03-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Not in heaven?
Philippians 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Philippians 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Where would he have gone to be with the Lord?

}
}}

ezekiel_37

03-13-2007, 06:23 PM

I guess I should have stated "not in the 3rd/highest heaven."

It is a common belief that once one dies, they go through the pearly gates to their reward, in heaven (or hell) forever....from that moment on.

I was trying to convey that heaven-the eternity-is to be right here on earth....after the Millenium...not right now. Souls wait right now. They are not enjoying Perfect Paradise now. That's all.

Remember that Christ is the ONLY one who has gone to the Father. No people yet. Not Abraham, Moses, or Paul. God will come to US, when we are ready...after the Millenium when the world has been purged of evil and refined in Heat as precious metal is.

Peace to you in Christ, David.
c

david_munson

03-14-2007, 03:02 PM

Zeke,
now there is something I have always wondered about.Why do people say that heaven has pearly gates?
Don't they realise that the new Jerusalem is what has the gates made of pearl and not heaven?

Someone must have done a telegraph game with that verse.
Telegraph games is when you make a circle of people and one tells someone next to them something and then they pass it along until it comes around again and then they see what it morphed into along the way.

Revelation 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Imagine gold so pure it's transparent?
Nice.

Peace to you also,}Zeke.

watchman_2

03-14-2007, 07:05 PM

It seems that somewhere in the love festival here that someone forgot to acknowledge that he was wrong [again].

David Munson wrote,

No one gets saved in hell.
(on the bad side ,as you say)
That is not Biblical.

Ezekiel_37 provided you with I Pet. 3:18-20, which renders David's claim false every time.

Of course, there is an abundance of other evidence that renders David's claim false as well. There are teachers in the millennium. Satan is loosed at the end of the millennium as well. These would not be necessary if some on the bad side of the gulf [hell] did not get there single opportunity to overcome Satan.

Of course, David's claim also has the indirect inference that God is unfair. Those born before Christ and those born into other religions, which never have had the chance to know Christ, are all destined for the Lake of Fire.

That would make God completely unfair. After all, the entire purpose of this second age is provoided to us in II Pet. 3.

So, it is quite obvious that David is wrong again. Let's see if he will be man enough to admit it.

david_munson

03-15-2007, 03:32 PM

At it again hey Watchman?
Constantly looking for an apology or something?
You never admitted that you have error in your theology.(is it pride that prevents you?)

You are mistaken about this topic Watchman.
You have to add things that are not said in scripture to come up with people getting saved in hell.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

The verses you equate with having souls saved in hell is a wrong interpretation.

YOU are wrong and refuse to admit it.
You never admit error ever.
Until you can come to grips with the fact that there is error in your theology nothing you say will carry any weight.
At all.

Saved in hell is not supported by any scripture without a real serious twisting having taken place.

Also ,I will do the speaking for myself as you have a habit of assigning things to people who didn't say what you assert that they said.

In other words stop your incessant lying narrative.

}

ezekiel_37

03-15-2007, 04:35 PM

There is a difference between the "other side of the Gulf in Heaven" which exists right now, and the Burning Lake of Fire, where souls get destroyed...which won't exist until the White Thrown Judgement.

Souls were preached to by Christ (between the time He was Crucified and His leaving the Tomb), on the other side of the Gulf, and many were saved, all the way back to Noah's days (beginning).

No offence David, but the quote from Heb 9:27 has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Humans do not reincarnate, but are born flesh man ONE time only....hence die in the flesh one time only(the latter 'exception' being taught in 1Cor15).

Not all were called to be saved in this age, but ALL will get the chance, a real chance at Salvation, ALL....whether it be in these flesh bodies or during the Millenium. Now is the acceptable time, but not the only time.

God is completely fair, and MUST offer the same Salvation to ALL born of woman (exclude the giants-nephilium-they have no resurrection).

Peace in Christ
c

david_munson

03-16-2007, 04:15 PM

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Night approaches.

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

God isn't fair in the way that you and I think of fairness.
Isaiah 55:8-11.
He is not limited to what we think is fair at all.
He can do anything He wants to and we have no say in how or why.
He is however Omniscient,Omnipotent and omnipresent.

We can't limit the Lord to the ways we think.
He is above that.

We come to Him on His terms ,not ours.

}

watchman_2

03-27-2007, 05:10 PM

David,

Two opposing arguments cannot both be true. So, the purpose of this discussion is to discover whether you or ezekiel_37 is correct. In this case [as all of the other cases], the errant argument is yours.

Therefore, an apology is not needed, for being ignorant is not a sin. What is required from you is an acknowledgement that you are wrong since, once again, it has been demonstrated that your theology is false.

So, when you write,
YOU are wrong and refuse to admit it.
You never admit error ever.
Until you can come to grips with the fact that there is error in your theology nothing you say will carry any weight.
At all.

Saved in hell is not supported by any scripture without a real serious twisting having taken place.

you show the world that you are clueless regarding this issue.

Go in peace.

david_munson

03-28-2007, 03:09 PM

Watchman,
you are welcome to your "opinion".

I would expect nothing less from you than to claim that I am "always" wrong.
However,
you chose the Words I used to you (which are true) to try and turn it on me.(which you failed to accomplish)

You have never admitted ,as have I ,that you have error like everyone else and I know why that is.
PRIDE.

No one is saved after they die.
It is in opposition to the scriptures.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

So then,
is the Word a lie?

}

watchman_2

03-28-2007, 06:54 PM

David,

Ezekiel_37 kindly showed you that your Hebrews 9:27 reference is incorrect with respect to whether souls are saved after they die.

In addition, your opinion is counter-argumentative with respect to the Lord's Day. There would be no need for priests in the millennium and no need for Satan to be loosed again after 1,000 years.

In fact, there would be no need for a millennium at all. Under your theory, all the non-christian people, including Jews, are lake of fire bound without ever getting a chance to know Christ. Since your theory can never be squared with the scriptures, one must only reasonably conclude that it is false.

It is really sad to see how unfair you think God is -- of course, we saw an example of your warped belief of eternal torture in the Lake of Fire debate [another one that you failed to acknowledge that you were wrong].

You also mistakenly wrote,
You have never admitted ,as have I ,that you have error like everyone else

That simply is a lie! Everytime that I have been in error, I have freely acknowledged the same and thanked the person whom corrected me.

I guess that we can add the title of liar as well to your other title of false preacher.

skooter942000

03-28-2007, 08:30 PM

2 ESDRAS 7:76-87
==> is Punishment!!! <==

And He answered me and said,
"I will show you that also;
but you must not associate with those
who have shown scorn, or count yourself
among those who are tortured.

For you have a treasure of works
laid up with the Most High,
but it will not be shown to you until the last times.

For about death, the teaching is:

When the final sentence goes forth from the
Most High that a man is to die,
when the soul departs from the body to
return to him who gave it, first of all it prays to
the glory of the Most High;

The first way is that they have scorned the
Law of the Most High.

The second way is that they can no longer
make a good repentance, so that they may live.

The third way is that they will see the reward
destined for those who have believed the agreements
of the Most High.

The fourth way is that they will consider the
torment destined for them in the last days.

The fifth way is that they will see that the
dwelling-places of the others are guarded by angels
in profound silence.

The sixth way is that they will see that some
of them will pass over to be tormented henceforth.

The seventh way, which is worse than all the ways
that have been mentioned, is that they will waste away
in shame and be consumed in disgrace, and whither with
fear, at seeing the glory of the Most High before whom
they they sinned while they lived, and before whom they
are destined to be judged in the last times.
When those who have been sinful and unrepentant arrive
in heaven they see the glory of God and are happy until
they are led to the other side of the gulf, their
countenance falls and are ashamed they did not cut it.

skooter942000

03-28-2007, 08:31 PM

__________________NOW THE BLESSINGS________________

- [ Think REWARDS ] -

2ESDRAS 7:90-99

Therefore this is the teaching about them:

First of all, they see with great rapture the glory
of Him who takes them up, for they will rest in seven
orders.

The first order is that they have striven with
much toil to conquer the wicked thought that was
formed with them, so that it should not lead them from
life to death.

The second order is that they see the labyrinth
in which the souls of the ungodly wander, and the
punishment that waits them.

The third order is that they see the testimony
that He who formed them has borne to them, because
they were alive and faithfully observed the Law which
was given them.

The fourth order is that they understand the rest
which they now enjoy, gathered in their chambers,
in great quietness, watched over by angels, and the
glory that awaits them in the last days.

The fifth order is that they exult that they have
now escaped what is corruptible and will possess the
future as their inheritance, and besides perceive the
narrowness and toilsomeness from which they have been
freed and the spaciousness they are destined to receive
and enjoy in immortality.

The sixth order is that it is shown to them how their
face is destined to shine like the sun, and how they are
made like the light of the stars, and be incorruptible
thence forth.

The seventh order, which is greater than all those
that have been mentioned, is that they will exult boldly,
and that they will trust confidently, and rejoice
fearlessly, for they hasten to see the face of Him whom
they served in life, and from Whom they are to receive
their reward when they are glorified.

These are the orders of the souls of the upright,
as henceforth proclaimed, and the above ways of torture
are those who would not give heed will henceforth suffer.”

skooter942000

03-28-2007, 08:36 PM

Lazarus and the RICH-MAN,
proves of the GULF in HEAVEN.

HELL (TRUE HELL), is the LAKE of FIRE.
That does not even exist NOW.

- That will come MUCH LATER.

- (After the LORD'S DAY)
- After the 1000 year period of time.

Read the Final verses of Rev 20
- That is the REAL HELL.

- OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE!!!

- Not one SOUL has yet PERISHED!!!
- Not even satan's.

david_munson

03-29-2007, 03:35 PM

Watchman,
that is one of the fuuniest things you have said so far.
When ,where and to whom?

Nice try but you are being decietful.

What non SC person have you ever admitted error to?
Makes a good point doesn't it?

As I recall, you said that your theology is superior to anyone elses.

That can be dangerous to ones walk and is really a pretty rediculous statement to make.

Your childish attack (by way of name calling), shows your insecurity and uncertainty about what you believe.

I have not lied.
You have ignored every chance to admit that you have error that you need to seek out and correct as all do.
It is nothing to be ashamed of.We all have to work out the errors we have.
We will all have error in our theology until Christ comes for us or we die.

So,
don't run so hard,the Spirit is everywhere.

}

watchman_2

03-30-2007, 04:30 AM

David,

When I have been in error, I have admitted it. It doesn't happen often, but, it is on the record if one digs deep enough. Other than my numerous typos and mispellings, I attempt to make sure that I am correct before posting on a topic. It is a credibility issue.

Believe it or not, when a detractor makes a seemingly plausible point that I have not already evaluated, I do research that point to see if it is credible.

So, eventhough you rarely make a scriptural argument here and prefer, instead, to hurl insults and offer commentary, I do review your plausible points.

However, in due fairness, your debating style is not one that is accommodating to exchange of thoughts in effort to seek a greater truth. Countless posts have been made by these good SCers to help edify you by refuting your interpretations and showing you the correct interpretations. You summarily dismiss all that proves your theology false.

In fact, it is abundantly clear to me that you are only interested in preaching your false doctrine. You can now see that, once you let us know that you are a preacher, many have ceased trying to edify you. The reason is simple -- there is no point in doing so. You are not here to learn -- only detract.

David, when you prove me wrong, I will be so happy to admit it. After all, you are a preacher and I am just a lowly student.

BTW, how many converts have you acquired here? I think the answer is zero. It must be frustrating for you to know that nobody takes you seriously here. Probably, few even read your analysis.

I have never once claimed to know it all; yet, you keep claiming that I have stated so. The fact is that your theology, in dispute here, is always in error. Your error is no basis for lumping all of the rest of us with you.

david_munson

03-30-2007, 03:53 PM

" You can now see that, once you let us know that you are a preacher."

You either totally missed the point I made about all of us being "preachers" or something else is going on.

I already explained that "we are all preachers of some sort or another".
Isn't that what you are doing,preaching?
You have a message don't you?

I doubt that you speak for every Sc'er here.

The arguements that I make are scripturally based so why would I have to quote verses all day to advance that?

Do you converse in King James english?
Exactly.

So your point is invalid.
Opinions do not count as "proved you wrong" but you are entitled to them.
You are free to believe as you so choose.
So am I.
That is the wonderful thing about free will.

Peace in the name of Christ.

}

watchman_2

03-30-2007, 06:31 PM

David,

You wrote,

Opinions do not count as "proved you wrong"

I agree with that position 100%. That is why you cannot prove anyone wrong here. The Word of God defeats your opinions and traditions of man every time. The SCers just let the Word of God speak for itself.

You also wrote,

The arguements that I make are scripturally based

LOL Thats one of the biggest whopping lies that I have seen in a long time from you. What about that 'rapture' nonsense that you believe in? What about the 'women giving suck' argument you make? You totally add and delete from scripture whenever you want to justify your false church beliefs.

It is plain to see that you are here to preach. Why don't you start your own group of threads so that you can preach to all of Factnet.

These are the Shepherd's Chapel threads. Unlike you, I am not here to preach -- but, to defend against lies and to assist those that honestly want to know our understanding of scripture.

david_munson

03-31-2007, 04:35 PM

" What about the 'women giving suck' argument you make? You totally add and delete from scripture whenever you want to justify your false church beliefs."
---
It is you that have these verses turned on their head and added to.
Let us continue to keep this reasonable and civil as we have so far.(I thank you again)

I would not accept that ,
as I have stated before,
a woman is a man that teaches anything.
This is not scriptural by any means.
I think I have provided you with context to that passage by including the whole text "in context" and not seperating verses from their place to make a straw man arguement.
Such practice being "proof texting".

Proof texting can privide a person with any arguement they want to have scripture bolster.However,proof texting disallows the consideration of proper context and leads to error in interpritation.

Call me anything you want,it bothers me not but it does nothing for your position except weaken it.

I will take your assertion as a compliment and not be offended.

Peace in the name of the Lord.

"The Lord,He is God".
}

david_munson

03-31-2007, 04:50 PM

Watchman,
I just have to do this with you.
It is only humor for your day and for you to enjoy.
Do you know the joke about the prisoners who knew the jokes they told so well that they numbered them and only had to say the number of the joke to get a laugh?

(this is only humor)
If you want to insult me maybe you could post the number of a post where you said something offensive.

Sort of a "hey Dave,post number 874".
(I hope you have heard that joke or my attempt to share this small humor is a dud.)

Actually I have to credit you with being very civil with me as of late.(people change,I have.)

I also want you to understand that I do not summarily dismiss everything you say just because I disagree with you.
I learn from everyone I have contact with even though they may not be aware of it.
I learn from you things that you might not realise.
Why?
Because I see "you and everyone else" as valuable and God as in Control.

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Peace in the Lord.

}

smyrna

04-05-2007, 03:06 PM

This thread is titled

"Students of SC LOVE Our brother Judah!'

And we do! And the reason why you don't see any of the detractors such as Godchild, Franklin, or Arron, is so that they can foolishly pretend they never saw it or read it.

I know the later posts were taken over by another subject altogether.

However, the detractors have had from March 5th until today to comment. They have managed to comment on many other threads. But not here.

So we see yet another tactic they employ in perpetuating their lies against the Shepherd's Chapel. Pretend they didn't read something, so they can keep on accusing falsely.

Well, it won't work. Because we know that is what they are doing.

smyrna

04-08-2007, 04:51 AM

Happy Passover to all our Jewish brothers and sisters!

Shalom to all in the homeland Israel. May there be peace in the city of God's peace.

stage_director

04-08-2007, 05:08 AM

That's the right attitude, David. :-)

yaqakallah

04-08-2007, 09:42 PM

Hello Everyone!!!!

Hey Smyrna, I noticed you're interested in the Messianic Seal. I just recently have been studying it myself. It is truly fascinating!!!!

I know I have been gone awhile. Just got sick of the arguing and it was effecting my health but I am feeling a bit better lately. I have not read the SC threads in well over a month or more. So many new threads. Impossible to read them all to catch up.
I'll try to pop in from time to time to say hello to EVERYONE!!! I sure have missed you guys!

Peace to all of you! Peace to our brothers and sisters here, in Israel and everywhere around the world. Time is so short. I pray we all can find one patch of common ground where we all could fellowship in a way which pleases our Heavenly Father. What a blessing that would be for all of us here.

With love for all,

Kim

fatherofaking

04-08-2007, 11:00 PM

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=402969#POST402969

i would be interested in discussing some of these things with you smyrna.
i have a big interest in religious symbolism.
take a look at the post i linked to if you have'nt already.

i should say at this point, that although i disagree with the serpent seed doctrine, you are of course entitled to believe it.
that is of course if it keeps you within the confines of the law.

christian identity is the teaching that justified hitler's actions.
it is in my opinion the logical conclusion of the teaching.
i am not trying to say that you all think the same way.
i really don't know what you think.
what i do know is that if your faith does not lead to action then it is worthless.

if i have made assumptions about what you think in the past i apologize, (to you too watchman)

so of course i think that what i know about scripture is more accurate than what others say they know.

if we didn't believe what we think is true then we wouldn't say so right?
or would we?

i accept the bible for what it is and think it is an excellent guide for living life.
the problem that occurs is that know matter what we think, it is an interpretation or a rehash of someone else's interpretation.

what shall we use to determine who is right?
there is a way to do this.
the problem is that it is always rejected by those that think they already know the truth.

it is no longer necessary to guess at these things.
everyone can't be right.
i am sorry but i think your methods of study have left you with just a small peice of the truth and not anywhere near the whole truth.

science should be the test of our biblical interpretations.

it is only now that we are able to do this.
what science has revealed should be good news for those that believe in god and the bible.

"The earlier concept of a universe made up of physical particles interacting according to fixed laws is no longer tenable. It is implicit in present findings that action rather than matter is basic. . . This is good news, for it is no longer appropriate to think of the universe as a gradually subsiding agitation of billiard balls. The universe, far from being a desert of inert particles, is a theatre of increasingly complex organization, a stage for development in which man has a definite place, without any upper limit to his evolution."
--Arthur M. Young
The Reflexive Universe

many in the scientific community have yet to accept the implications of the findings of the scientific method.

arthur young and many others have not rejected these findings.
these ideas are the jumping off point for us to truely be able to understand the bible and all of the other mythologies for living.

it wasn't until i stumbled on arthur young's material that i truely got a handle on the true meaning in religious symbolism .