SOMETHING FOR ALL OF US TO CONSIDER

[david_munson]

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I post this because it speaks to all who have ears to hear.
Please consider with an open heart.
---
Sheep or goats?

Matthew 25:37-39 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

A friend sent us this story about a young lady named Sally and her experience in a recent seminary class, given by her teacher, Dr. Smith. Dr. Smith was known for his elaborate object lessons. This particular day, Sally walked into the class and knew they were in for a fun day.

On the wall was a big target and on a nearby table were many darts. Dr. Smith told the students to draw a picture of someone that they disliked or someone who had made them angry, and he would allow them to throw darts at the person's picture.

Sally's friend drew a picture of girl who had stolen her boyfriend. Another guy drew a picture of his little brother. Sally drew a picture of a former friend. The class lined up and began throwing darts. Some of the students were throwing their darts with such force that their targets were ripping apart and everyone was laughing hysterically.

Finally, Dr. Smith asked all the students to be seated. He came to the front of the class with a less-than-amused look on his face. As he began removing the target from the wall, there appeared underneath, a picture of Jesus. A hush fell over the room as each student viewed the mangled picture; holes and jagged marks covered Jesus' face, and His eyes were pierced.

Dr. Smith said only these words. "In as much as you have done it unto the least of these my brothers, you have done it unto Me." Matthew 25:40.

What a powerful analogy. Phew. When we "throw darts" at our brothers and sisters, friends and even strangers, we are actually piercing our Lord too. Let's get right with the Lord and others today. It's a good season for reconciliation. There's so much work to be done!

Your family in the Lord with much agape love,

George, Rivka and Elianna Whitten
Negev Desert, Israel
---
SC'ers and nonSc'ers alike should take this to heart.It applies to "all" of us.

In Christ's name,
Dave

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[godchild]

Thank you for the lovely story, david.

[smyrna]

Good post Dave, except it fails to address the complexity of the human condition.

Does the fact that we just put together a thread clearly showing Godchild's false accusations and lies a motive for starting this thread? Or did you just decide it was a nice day to post cute little stories?

If the professor's lesson was more in tune with Scripture,rather than than the airbrushed fundamentalist ideas about Jesus, he and/or his students would have seen that Jesus was pretty rough on His opponents at times.

He called the Pharisees a "generation of vipers."

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." -Matthew 12:34"

He fashioned a whip and used it to chase out the money changers.

"And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables" -John 2:15

In John 4:18, Jesus tells her that she is an adulterer (Matthew 5:32).

Can you imagine meeting someone for the first time and they bring up your adulterous relationships?

There are times that the truth is offensive to people.

In our case, we (SC folks)have been on the defensive here from day 1. Any forceful actions since then have been to show how ridiculous and dishonest the detractors are.

If we choose to do it by poking fun at our opponents, or showing their bearing of false witness, and so many other tactics,that is our choice.

None of us on either side is innocent, and I repent of my sins.

However, I refuse to walk away from defending against those who insist on lying about me and so many others.

They can deny that what SC teaches is truth, that is their right. But if they are so right about their theology, then why do they have to lie and use other deceptive tactics?

In MY opinion, any discussion of our beliefs is a work of charity, planting seeds. If they don't think that, then tough, they don't have to accept it. Once again, that is their choice.

They started these threads. Their justification for it is based upon a lie. The SC is not a racist cult, they have never proved that, and they refuse to even take the step of contacting a nationally known and respected organization that fights anti-semitism and/or racism.

Doesn't that tell you something, Dave?

No evidence, no matter what it is, appeases the detractors from Cultbusters. They are as blind as the O.J. Simpson trial jurors. They had their mind made up even before they entered the courtroom.

You can see that clearly if you read Godchild, This Thread Is For You.

Godchild is not an isolated case. I have a whole list of websites and individuals that engage in this bearing of false witness, along with evidence that they are totally aware that they are lying. What does that tell you about their dedication to Christianity?

NONE of them that claim the SC is racist or anti-semitic can produce any documentation from any organization that is nationally known.

(I must describe them this way, because otherwise the detractors will say I'm, lying, and cite obscure "organizations" which are basically just websites full of the same garbage they claim is "evidence.")

That is because they KNOW they are lying, and just like Frankie, they have a great fear of basically being told this by someone they can only dream is on their side.

But nice try Dave, I gotta give it to you for trying.

[skooter942000]

Some are HERE to repel the DARTS.
- Not throw them, (For HURT).

- But to CORRECT!!!



- satan always attacks FIRST!!!
(With lies and deceit)



Note Ephesians Chapter 6.

Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith,
wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the
fiery darts of the wicked.




"ALL LIES", come from the 'father of lies'.




And this is where many LIARS come,
- to Throw their POISONOUS DARTS!!!!



If the LIES would cease,
- i would gladly LEAVE!!!


This Listing (OF SC was not started for help)
- But HURT!!!


Who started it?

- Who was the first POSTER? (posters)
- 'i' would love to KNOW!!!


- Then again,
- ( 'i' Bet they are still present today).

[david_munson]

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Just more evidence of "His" faithfulness.

Today I got this and it goes hand in hand with the last one.

It speaks to my heart too just like it does to those who read it as we can clearly see from the above replies.
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Are you offended?

Psalms 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

It never ceases to amaze me, the way the devil uses our offenses and our "offendedness" to divide and conquer marriages, relationships, churches -- even entire nations!

Many of us are not careful enough about the things we say and more importantly, we get offended way too easily. As we were discussing this topic recently, a good friend gave this analogy and we loved it:

If you are holding a baby and his little arm swats you in the face, would you take offense to that? Of course not! We know the little guy didn't intend to hurt us. We respond with "awwww" or laughter or something to that effect. But if it is a friend, a family member or a brother or sister in the church who offends us with a little swat of his words or actions, we are undone. We expect more from them! What hypocrisy! We become angry and we want to defend ourselves, fight back or leave forever.

Jesus said NO! He said that even if someone despitefully uses us, that means on purpose, that we are to respond in love! We as human beings are troubled and sinful. We are not perfect and we should never expect others to be, no matter what their positions are in the church. God is perfect and He is the one from whom our expectations should come -- not man.

Am I talking to you today? We are all guilty of this one way or another. Let's give our offenses to the Lord. Allow Him wash over us today. Allow Him Heal us. Get us back to where we need to be. There's so much work to be done.

Your family in the Lord with much agape love,

George, Rivka and Elianna Whitten
Negev Desert, Israel
---
All these things apply to me and have touched my heart deeply.(no fingers have been pointed in any direction except to the Lord.)
I love it when I hear His voice.
I love when he convicts me and gives me a chance to fall upon Him for strength that I do not have.
Jude 24-25.

He is able,we are not.

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[smyrna]

Good post, Dave. Join all of us in prayer on this Good Friday.

[david_munson]

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Prayer, yes Smyrna,
something we should all be able to connect about.
The thing we have most in common with each other.
Calling on the Lord Jesus the Christ for our needs and the needs of those around us.

Seeking His heart on a matter.
Having our hearts conformed to His will.
Amen and amen.

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[smyrna]

Tomorrow we ALL celebrate the rising of Our Lord, and His victory over death.

Have a good Holy Day Dave, to you and to all.

I like to get up on Easter morning and recite Psalms 22 and 23, because it really tells it all, just in those two Psalms. I know them by heart.

(Plus I get to eat again, as I fast very heavily for Lent, and hardly eat much!)

[stage_director]

Awww, David ... Sadly by the responses it seems some of us believe we serve the god of forces.

Mat 5:44-48
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[smyrna]

Well Dave, as you can see the detractors are really good at finding things to whine about.

Why don't you be honest, SD, and just address me directly? And then you can explain what you mean by the God of forces.

Because to me, there is only one God, Creator of all, and that includes "forces."

[stage_director]

smyrna, both you and scooter942000 responded and found enough fault with his post for some correction. Why can't a post urging compassion and mercy just stand on it's own without a need to contradict it? David offers a simple reminder of what Christianity is about and it is sad when it can't be appreciated for what it is.

[smyrna]

Ok, I stand corrected. I know what you are talking about. My post 2154.

I really meant it when I told Dave nice try. I know I'm usually being sarcastic when I say that, but this time I meant it.

The trouble is, I just don't buy into those fluff pieces. They don't reflect real life, they don't even reflect the real lfie of Christ.

He was tough on His opponenets, that is a known fact that so many seem to overlook.

I just tried to compare the situations, that's all. We all have opponents,and Jesus taught us how to handle them.

[david_munson]

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I also have a tendency to react to conviction when it hits me,so I can't fault Smyrna or any one else for that because it is a good indication that the heart is not totally hardened and that the Lord can still be heard when He speaks.
There are three phases that I often go through when truth is hard for me to except.
1,Reaction.
2.Reflection.
3.Reception.

I reject the "us against them" mentality but I can understand that in this fallen world it is one of the fights we have to undertake to become more Christ like.
(we fight to reject that mindset of "us against them")

Our biggest battles are really with ourselves as we learn to receive the thoughts of the Spirit instead of rationalizing with the mind of our fallen flesh.Isaiah 55:8-11.

Christ was hard on the religious crowd that "placed themselves above others" and who layed requirements on the people that they didn't adhere to themselves.
We are only to address Godless and Loveless behaviour and erroneous doctrines but that without malice.

This takes a great amount of self examination to be sure the heart is reflecting the gift placed within by the Holy One.(and that no attitude of superiority develops within us)
It also requires humility and receptivity to those thoughts that are higher than ours.
Isaiah 55.

Jesus teaches us to Love no matter what and He gives no excuse for not abiding in His love.
If we do not Love we are not of God, says the Scriptures.

We see the outward.God sees the heart.
We do not see the heart of anyone but Christ as He has revealed it to us.

He who loves is of God.
1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Fluff (LOVE) is God.
He who does not "fluff" is not of God.

It's the Word of God not my words.(1Jhn 4:7-8.
Complain to the Lord about it if it bothers you.
I can do nothing about this truth except embrace it.

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[godchild]

Did Jesus "fluff" the Pharisees? Please give your definition for "fluff", david. Maybe I am not understanding what you are trying to say.

[godchild]

david, Were you "fluffing" watchman not long ago?
Or are you now "fluffing" people? I'm a little confused by your words.

[ezekiel_37]

look out david

[david_munson]

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Stated above,
"In John 4:18, Jesus tells her that she is an adulterer (Matthew 5:32)."
Who specifically was He talking to?

Here is a specific adultery case that He addresses personally.I would take this example to heart.
"John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Would any one disagree with what Jesus Himself said?

Not me.

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[david_munson]

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Godchild,
"fluff" is the word that was used in response to describe the Love that was being expressed in the example from the first post.

"The trouble is, I just don't buy into those fluff pieces. They don't reflect real life, they don't even reflect the real life of Christ."

That was why I wrote it that way.

I hope this has helped to clarify what my point is.

Dave

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[david_munson]

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Godchild,
"fluff" is the word that was used in response to describe the Love that was being expressed in the example from the first post.

"The trouble is, I just don't buy into those fluff pieces. They don't reflect real life, they don't even reflect the real life of Christ."

That was why I wrote it that way.

I hope this has helped to clarify what my point is.

Dave

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[david_munson]

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Smyrna,
I posted that devotion the very same day I recieved it in my inbox becasue it spoke to my heart.

I had nothing in mind concerning any one specific or any specific action that anyone has taken.
I don't read certain threads which "titles" I find offensive and carnally minded.

The devotion just ministered to me and I was led to share it.
Don't worry,
I find it as convicting as you do.

God's Word is like that.
Thank the Lord He cares that way about us.

Baruch Hashem Adonia

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[godchild]

david, I got it and thank you. I don't always read other's posts and sometimes miss the connections. Its just that when I think of "fluff" I think of the unnecessary stuff like make-up, jewelry, stuff like that.

I always enjoy your devotionals. Hope you're all having a "Christ-minded" day, and that everyone you meet today will treat you as kindly as they have me. God is sooo Good!

[david_munson]

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To the contrary.
I do not have to love that.
In fact I despise it because it is Christ-less nonsense.

Wrong thread for that.
Do I have to start this thread all over again by opening up a new one?

This thread is not the insult thread but is intended for that which ministers to and builds folks up,not tears them down.
(someone missed the whole point)

That should have been so easy to see.
(Just open your heart to the will of the Lord)

Why ruin a good thread with nonsense?
That is the one reason I don't read threads that start with an obvious title that shows intentional malice towards others.
(No,it is not God's will!)

Christ is not involved in that.
He Himself said in,
"Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you.

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Some think themselves above this which is Christ's command.

Above is posted the mind of Christ whether you agree or not.
Argue with Him if you think you can get anywhere with that.
(you even bicker on the prayer thread for crying out loud!)

I would like to have "one thread" that isn't filled with such ridiculous and childish nonsense.

In order to have that it is necessary to behave in a mature fashion.

Does anyone think that they can do this?
Let us now see.

Peace in the name of the Lord.
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[smyrna]

Dave,

You may call it nonsense all you want.

If you want the facts, have you even bothered to look up the passage which is Matthew 25:40?

The professor in your story took it completely out of context.

So don't call what I have to say nonsense when the use of Scripture that started this thread is one of abuse.

You wrote: "I would like to have "one thread" that isn't filled with such ridiculous and childish nonsense."

Hey, guess what? That has already been done. It was called:

"Scholarship" of Chapel Detractors

The only detractor post there was Godchild, who posted something totally unrelated to the discussion, and even admitted it, by thanking Terluvire for reposting it and an appropriate thread.

And another is:

Students of SC LOVE Our brother Judah!

The problem there is, even though I tried to start a discussion about the Messianic seal, because it certainly goes a long way towards showing that ALL Christians should maintain a healthy attitude towards the Jewish people of both past and present, NO detractors showed up for that, and I mentioned why on that thread.

And YOU David, along with some other guys, managed to divert from the intent of the thread by getting into yet another argument, so if you want a "clean" thread, start practicing what you preach!

[fatherofaking]

david-munson,

i am afraid that here on factnet your request is very difficult to honor.

those that do not see the need to be kind to others will always be here.

i have found that the only way to accomplish the goal of having a discussion free of the hate that we see here, is to simply ignore those that show the hatred that is in their heart.

you must first accept that it will not go away.
then you can see it for what it is more clearly.
your frustration is just what this hatred is designed to provoke.

here you do not have a choice who you will speak to you, but you do have a choice as to how you will respond.
i have failed miserably many times in this test.

my desire is to grow in the truth.
the challenges that come with posting here can do that for anyone who really wants to grow.

[smyrna]

Hey fatherofaking,

Your comments would have more veracity if you actually approached writing them with an unbiased view.

In other words, your complaints will not be of any consequence to those you claim to try to reach.

Because you, as the other detractors, ignore any evidence that show the detractors are far from being guilt free when it comes to their actions on these boards.

You deliberately ignored, for instance, that Dave's first post contained an abuse of Scripture, and it matters not if that abuse was intended to make a point that was designed to help people. Abuse is abuse.

Furthermore, I also maintained that there already were threads here that fit Dave's description of threads free from "ridiculous and childish nonsense" but you chose to ignore that, too.

Ignoring posts that show others wrong here is certainly not a new thing.

I personally wish Godchild would actually stand be her own declaration and ignore me, but she is incontinent in that regard.

So if you want to ignore me, hey, go for it. But don't be whining that it is because I hate anyone. Because you would be lying.

You will never grow in truth, if you insist in perpetuating lies.

[fatherofaking]

smyrna,

i do not excuse the behavior of others here because i do not speak of it.
it is what you are teaching that i am concerned with.
their petty little games are of little concern to me.

in my opinion this teaching of yours is destructive.
much more than the games that go on here.

i am indeed singling out you and your teaching.

i have noticed that you have not responded to much of what i have posted today.
why is that?

did you not see them?
or is it something else?

[smyrna]

fatherofaking,

You wrote: "in my opinion this teaching of yours is destructive."

"i am indeed singling out you and your teaching."

"i have noticed that you have not responded to much of what i have posted today."

First, your opinion means nothing to me.

Second, your opinion means nothing to me because it is ridiculous.

Third, if you are singling me out, you are wasting you time. Single out Pastor Murray, he's doing the teaching, not me.

Four, I am responding to your posts, with this one.

Five, you better get over it, or get used to it. Shepherd's Chapel is here to stay! When Pastor Murray is called home to the Father, his sons will take over the ministry.

[fatherofaking]

i do not doubt you are here to stay.

i have no illusions about what i am able to accomplish here.

i cannot make you go away, nor do i want to make you go away.

why would you tell me to go to pastor murray?
are you not able to take responsibility for what you are teaching?

if i pass on something that someone taught me i would definetely take resposibility for what i was doing.

i expect you to do the same.

i have no need of any validation from you smyrna.
my opinion is what it is.
i call it an opinion because i do not see any blatant racism being taught.
it is called respect.
what i do see is racial undertones, and behavior that is characteristic of that kind of thinking.

so smyrna, here i am.
i am not going away either.
you may respond in whatever manner you like to the things i say, including no response at all, it will in no way deter me.

the things i write are read by many and even respected by some.
you may not see it but the oppositon to your teaching is strong.

your teachings will eventually fall just like everything else in this world.
god however will always be around for you to contend with.
i wish you the best in your efforts.

[smyrna]

"if i pass on something that someone taught me i would definetely take resposibility for what i was doing."

That's good. So do I. So why don't you publish a website or start a thread about what Smyrna teaches. If that will make you happy, have at it.

"i call it an opinion because i do not see any blatant racism being taught."

Go post that over at Cultbusters, they need to read that.

"you may not see it but the oppositon to your teaching is strong.'

That does not sway me nor intimidate me, especially since it's coming from some guy that probably thinks a talking snake a magic apple tree, a boat built by one man that can hold tens of thousands of animals who must have went on a worldwide safari to catch them all, or had a magic flute or whatever, two people giving birth to all the races/or evolution, Elijah being taken to heaven in a burning Chariot by horses that were on fire, an evil man in the future making everyone wear bar codes or computer chips, or tatoos, or what have you, and people that think they are so righteous they are going to fly away to escape some tribulation, as if they were better than all the Martyrs in history,is all the Word of God, doesn't impress me with their "exegetical prowess"
but rather appears to me as just one more clown out of many.

I think it's time for the Fundamentalist's Creed

Coming up next!

[smyrna]

FUNDAMENTALIST'S CREED


I believe in the inerrancy of my favorite Bible version, whatever that version may be. I believe two people were put by God into a garden, and a talking snake gave them a magic fruit, because the fruit could turn them into gods. I don’t know why that would make them eat the fruit, after they ate it, they suddenly got a funny feeling, and it made them feel like they should make clothes out of leaves.

God got mad because they let the snake pull tricks on them. But he told the snake that from now on whenever he has any seeds, I guess for more of those magic trees, then God will make sure we know the difference between the seeds Eve has and the seeds the snake has.

Anyway, I also believe that there was a real bad rainstorm, because God wanted to kill everyone except one family and start all over. He didn’t want to have to make new animals, so he made the guy who he wanted to save from the flood go all over the world collecting animals from every climate, freshwater fish, birds, bugs, etc. He must have been a very fast worker because he was able to do that and build a huge boat at the same time. Whatever, that’s what it says so I know it must be true. Modern English and ancient Hebrew aren’t any different from each other, so what it says in english must be what it said in Hebrew.

Anyway, after the rain, Noah and the misses and their kids settled down and...well, the strangest thing, but Noah’s children had their own children of all sort of different colors! There were these real giant people too, and some false teachers say they were because angels did sexual things with women, but I don’t believe that.

I think they were just big bad people that came from somewhere where there must have been very good food! They were very bad, and the Jews killed them, even though I thought only really bad people killed other people. I guess they were bad, the Jews, but I can’t talk too much about that because it’s also bad to say things about the Jews, that’s anti-semitism.

That’s all I really know about ancient times, except the times when Jesus was born. Jesus was born, but the Jews didn’t believe he was anything special, well some did, but not all. These three really smart guys came from somewhere, and gave him presents, which was cool. But the Romans, who were in charge of the whole world, eventually let those bad Jews, oops, let's just say "religious establishment", finally gave in and they killed him.

But Jesus rose from the dead, and He said He will come again. Even those wicked Shepherd’s Chapel students know that. But you know what?

All the people in my church, not any one else’s because they are all bad, will get to go on a trip to outer space first. Jesus is coming to take us for a tour of space, because the baddest man in history is going to be born, and he will make all the bad people get tattoos that say 666 on their heads.

Well, maybe a bar code or even a computer chip, my Pastor isn’t sure yet. He is pretty sure that this bad man might be the Pope, well the next Pope. This one is pretty old. He said it doesn’t really matter, because by that time we will probably be in the vicinity of Mars or Jupiter. I can’t wait either, because these really scary black helicopters keep flying around my house, and staring at me.

Anyway, after all the bad stuff is over, we are going to come back from our trip and live for 1000 years on earth. But right at the end, the devil will be let out of jail on parole, and he will make some people be bad. Then, God will get mad about this and have Judgment day. Oh yeah, I have to ask my Pastor why there will be a Judgment day, since so many people are in hell already.

[fatherofaking]

do you really think i believe that stuff smyrna?

where did you get the idea that i am a fundamentalist christian?
do a little research smryna and you will find a very different person.

i offered to have a discussion with you about religious symbolism but you didn't reply.
this would have given you an oppportunity to find out some of what i believe.

you seem to be doing the same thing that you accuse others of doing.
making judgments that are without merit.

[david_munson]

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Smyrna,
name calling "is" nonsense as well as severely unproductive ,whether you agree or not doesn't change the "fact".
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Fatherofaking,
I already understand that people will be people.
I don't understand why you think I am frustrated though.
Far from it actually.

I'm just doing what I am supposed to do for the time I am given to do it.
It makes no difference what others think about it because I am not responcible for the way people respond to conviction.
I am responcible for what I am convicted about by the Lord's Spirit or what he shows me to build me up.

I was just sharing something beautiful about the nature of Christ.
How we are delt with as adopted children of the Most high God because of the Love that He has for us and how He expects us to act towards others.(does what we do show that we know Him?)

Others will read and be encouraged.Some will find fault and others will not even be effected.
That is the way of things this side of eternity.
I am under no illusions,believe me brother.

Thank you for your responce.
Dave

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[smyrna]

Dave wrote:

Smyrna,
name calling "is" nonsense as well as severely unproductive...

Hey, tell that to Jesus, John and Paul:

Matthew 23. In that chapter alone, Christ calls the scribes and Pharisees names 16 times. The names are “hypocrites” (7 times), “son of Hell” (once),”blind guides” (twice), “fools and blind” (3 times), “whited sepulchres” (once), “serpents” (once), and “offspring of vipers” (once). Since Christ was without sin, we may deduce by good and necessary consequence that name-calling as such is not a sin. Since everything Christ did was righteous and virtuous, we may deduce by good and necessary consequence that accurate name-calling is a virtue.

But Christ is not the only example. John, who some professed Christians love to quote because they misunderstand and misrepresent what he says about love, calls certain persons known to his readers “liars” and “antichrists.”

Paul, in 1 Corinthians corrected those at Corinth who denied the resurrection. In chapter 15, verse 36, he refers to one objector as a fool. And can we not conclude from Psalms 14:1 and 53:1 that atheists, for example, are fools?

Further, in 1 Timothy 4:2 Paul refers to “hypocritical liars” and in 5:13 he writes of “gossips and busybodies.” Those who object to name-calling must object to the practice of Jesus, Paul, and John, among many others.

I'm just sharing something beautiful about the nature of Christ.

[stage_director]

There's a huge difference. Jesus wasn't trying to get the last smart a$$ remark in, or getting off on his own wit for the sheer enjoyment of it. He got no satisfaction from it. For a fact, you or anyone else who believes the name calling that goes on at this board is an example set forth by Jesus Christ ... you have deceived yourselves.

[dodge]

Using Bible quotes to justify calling people disrespectful names?

Just when I think, "Surely this person has reached and encapsulates the limits of Internet tedium" you go and push the boundary even further. Clearly, you spend way too much time in darkened rooms in front of your seven-year-old computer turning a whiter shade of pale. Go outside once in a while and breathe, before your brain starts to rot from all that festering stagnation and cognitive dysfunction.

It seems your fingers not only did your typing, but did your thinking too. Have you considered suing your brain for non-support? You must have a very large brain to hold such a vast amount of sheer ignorance. Anyway, who was talking to you or even taking you under consideration? I suggest you need Mark Twain's advice; "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

You are about as entertaining as watching grass grow in a windowbox. What do you do for a living? You are living, aren't you? Any friend of yours is a lousy judge of character. Seriously, I've come across decomposing dog carcases that are less offensive to the senses than you are. Maybe you wouldn't come across as such a jellyfish-sucking mental midget if you didn't have an intellect rivaled only by the Village Idiot's stupider brother; if your weren't so fat that your cereal bowl has its own lifeguard, or if you didn't have a face so ugly that your mom had to get well-and-truly drunk before she could breast feed you. No, come to think of it, you would.

Finally, why don't you go and get lost somewhere where they don't have a "found" department?

(from the Internet Random Insult Generator)

[dodge]

Thank you, Smyrna, for letting us know that the Lord condones name-calling. I feel much better about calling you an arrogant deluded fool.

[stage_director]

And now ... Back to our sponsor.

[smyrna]

S_D Wrote:


"There's a huge difference. Jesus wasn't trying to get the last smart a$$ remark in, or getting off on his own wit for the sheer enjoyment of it. He got no satisfaction from it. For a fact, you or anyone else who believes the name calling that goes on at this board is an example set forth by Jesus Christ ... you have deceived yourselves.'

I think Jesus would be very rough on those who have little understanding of the Bible, which has been proven over time,(I'm not referring to you but to Godchild and Franklin, and others) and have the audacity to claim otherwise, and then on top of that, hurl false accusations that never had any base in fact.

Whether you agree with that or not, that is what I am doing, and God will be my judge, not you or anyone else.


On top of that, "Stage Director" I have information I received this morning about your activities on other forums, the identities you are using, and from what I have seen about those activities, you are being a world class hypocrite.

So you can keep up your huffing and puffing, but you are just an agitator, who is practicing precisely what you are complaining about me doing in your post.

That means you are wasting your time here, at least with me and anyone else who knows about your activities outside this forum.

[dodge]

These ShepChapers don't practice the love that Jesus taught. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus tells us we must love our enemies, and pray for those who have hurt us. We must forgive those about whom we are embittered. We must be willing to love unconditionally, which is what forgiveness is, if we want to experience the blessings of God's love. If we want God to answer our prayers we must forgive those we feel have harmed us and we must ask God to bless them.

Jesus said, in the Gospel of Mark, that whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in Heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in Heaven forgive you.

These ShepChapers don't seem to be a forgiving or loving group of people, and hold on to grudges, bitterness, hatred and have a desire for revenge and retaliation. Remember, what you hold against someone else will hurt you, hinder you, and stymie your efforts at prayer.

Judging from the ad homenim attacks and mean-spirited name-calling, these followers of Arnold Murray are unwilling to let go of their animosity towards those who disagree or criticize them. This blocks God's love. You must pray for your enemies, Smyrna and Watchman...and give up your nasty name-calling. If not, you cannot call yourselves Christian.

I say this as a non-Christian, but one who was a practicing Catholic for decades until I saw the hypocrisy and sham behind religion itself. I know that I don't follow the precepts that I have written above; but I don't claim to be a follower of Jesus. You do.

[skooter942000]

_YAWN_




``````

(-)/\(O)
______
\____/




Sorry the threads messed up David.


"LIGHT and DARKNESS" ,
- (are not EQUAL)

[...and they never shall be]

[dodge]

Oh, oh, Stage Director...Smyna has information on you, things that were received this morning that will make you look bad. Does this sound familiar? Like, Scientology and "fair game"? Very cult-like. Are you frightened?

[smyrna]

You just have to love people that are so ridiculous, they offer hours of entertainment and laughter!

And that is what the detractors offer me, so I have to love them.

TV and movies can't possibly offer the type of entertainment I get from these real life cartoon characters.

By the way, I'm not talking to Dodge, because these threads all have accusations about how so and so hates so and so.

I challenge anyone to find just one post where it states I hate someone. Unlike Godchild, who just yesterday, referring to me, had this to say:

"I, being human, can't stand the jerk."

Now, I can look for the other post right there at FactNet, but she actually said she "hates the man" talking bout Pastor Murray.

So the next time someone wants to author a post that criticizes a chapel student for not being lovey dovey all the time, they need to also include the detractors,who have said much more vile and hateful things about others.

Like Franklin's reference that someone should have male on male sex with an orangutan,for instance, and the well known reference by Balaam, about me performing a sex act of Pastor Murray
which would certainly appeal to a guy like Dodge, since his vile post about Jesus are pretty much on the same level of degradation.

It's interesting watching Dodge and Stage director
having their love fest, dining on the vomit they are both spewing about the Chapel.

Do you agree with Dodge's posts
that denigrate Jesus, Stage Director?

Or are you going to claim you haven't seen them, either?

[skooter942000]

...Who needs a ZOO?



(we can just come here and see the Primal minds at work).

- A man without GOD,
- is like a Quadruped without LAND.




- So let's not feed these Animals.
- They'll just be back for more.





A Darwinism

- Monkey see?
- Mankey Do?


<font color="119911"><font size="+2">LOL
</font></font>

[smyrna]

Skooter wrote: "Who needs a ZOO?
(we can just come here and see the Primal minds at work)."

ROTFL, good one Skooter!
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Do you agree with Dodge's posts that denigrate Jesus, Stage Director?
END QUOTE

Well, smyrna ... since you asked ... I feel that even if someone doesn't have the same respect and reverence for Jesus Christ I do they should have the courtesy to refrain from making disparaging remarks. Let's say they have an uncle they love very much who's been a huge part of their life, someone they respect and owe a great deal to ... Now this uncle has never influenced my life. In all honesty, I don't even know for a fact that he exists because I've never met him, I've only heard them speak of him. What I do know is that this person has a great deal of love for the uncle ... and he's an individual who's very important to them and been major part of their life. So ... I don't see how it benefits me to insult or belittle the uncle, and out of human decency ... I hope I'd find him to be off limits to my ridicule. Have I answered your question?

Personally, I think dodge is playing Pavlov with you in anticipation of your reactions.

[angie0401]

Personally, I think dodge is playing Pavlov with you in anticipation of your reactions.
I think dodge tries to keep the opposite "sides" feeling animosity towards each other (like we need any help!) and tries to keep the pot stirred up. Whenever one group seems to be losing ground, dodge comes in and attempts to bolster that group. Doesn't matter which side, he's only interested in adding fuel to the fire.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Isaiah 55:8-11.

</font>}

[smyrna]

Angie,
I think you pretty much have it in a nutshell (an appropriate term)

I am mildly entertained at the fact that Stage Director alludes to Dodge playing games, like she isn't?

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
---
But others know better than the Lord ,don't they?

--
We can find almost anything we want to bolster error when it comes to the way we treat others but that is not the mind of Christ.
That is our mind apart from Christ trying to find self justification for disobedience to the Word.

It becomes most evident when someone searches around trying to defend bad behaviour by claiming it's God's will when it clearly isn't.

No one gets to belittle and berate others with the Lord's blessing.
He isn't in it.
It misrepresents who He is and why He came.

"He came not to condemn" does not mean that He sent "you" to do it no matter who "you" are.
Go and re-read the book of John.
It explains a lot.

</font>}

[godchild]

quote:

I think dodge tries to keep the opposite "sides" feeling animosity towards each other (like we need any help!)
-----------------------
angie doesn't speak for me. She only speaks for herself.

[ezekiel_37]

no kidding

[skooter942000]

Jokes from the 'NET'
- For RE-TIRED FOLKS


I chanced to pass a window
While walking through a mall
With nothing much upon my mind,
Quite blank as I recall.
I noticed in that window
A cranky-faced old man,
And why he looked so cranky
I didn't understand.
Just why he looked at ME that way
Was more than I could see
Until I came to realize
That cranky man was ME!




OLD TEACHERS never die,
they just lose their class

OLD TELEPHONES never die,
they just stop ringing

OLD THERMODYNAMICISTS never die,
they just achieve their state -- of maximum entropy

OLD TIRE TUBES never die,
they just get punctured

OLD TRASH never dies,
they just bury it

OLD TRIGONOMETRY TEACHERS never die,
they just lose their identities

OLD TROMBONISTS never die
- they just slide away...

OLD TV SHOWS never die,
they just get rerun on Nickelodeon

OLD TV SOAP STARS never die,
they become pathetic

OLD USENETTERS never die,
they just become unresponsive

OLD VACATIONERS never die,
they just don't come back

OLD VIOLINISTS never die
- they just become unstrung.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, ""what is that to thee? follow thou me.""

Point made?

</font>}

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Skooter942000,
there is one you missed in the above that I thought you'd like.

"Old New England fishermen never die,
they just smell that way."

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

Proverbs 17:22a A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.

</font>}

[sharon]

Skooter loved the poem. Laughed out loud. As Dave says good medicine. David your opening message may have been lost here but it will always be the first one read on this page. It is a wonderful story. And it does make one stop and think. Thank you

[smyrna]

Hi Sharon,

Are you on another "space mission" to "Yarrum"?

It is a quaint little story. Too bad it's based upon the misuse of Scripture, taken completely out of context, and thus it takes a place beyond the foundations of our harsh reality, a reality that Jesus Himself experienced, and as many of us know, He was not too kind to His detractors.

In simpler words, Jesus did not "throw darts" at a hidden image of Himself. What He did do, is challenge His detractors, and if one actually knows Scripture, He even called them fools,a generation of vipers, even lashed out at them with a whip He made Himself.

Part of the problem with stories such as the one above, is that it continues a tradition of presenting a false image of Jesus, based upon perceptions that He was even kind to His enemies. He was, but NOT all the time.

Dave's message is not "lost" to any who have read this whole thread. It is simply placed in the proper context, for full understanding.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
The reality is that when conviction hits someone they have the option of responding in faith instead of (I don't think this word is the best one to use) "attacking" the message.
Maybe rejecting the message and principles put forth is a better way to express what I am trying to say.

We are not Jesus.
He told us how to behave towards others and when any of us tries to excuse ourselves from His commands it is because we don't "like' when the Lord touches our heart so personally.

It addresses what the Lord expects of us.
"HE" told us to love all people and He gave no excuse for not doing so.

Conviction may be uncomfortable but so what?
It is God's Love that cares enough to change our hearts.
If we do not Love then God Himself says we are not His.
He who Loves is of God and that is not out of context with the Holy Word.
It is the Holy Word.

P.S.
I like it when the Holy Spirit bothers my conscience.It shows He cares about me and wants the best for me.

(open ended question)
What do you care about?

</font>}

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Smyrna,
how pray tell did you get to place Jesus in front of the target?
That is not what the message says.
You are twisting it out of proportion and context.

Stop twisting a good example around to fit your "love of condemning others" and stop trying to dredge up excuses for bad behaviour.
You are not Christ.

</font>}}}

[smyrna]

Dave,

You never did understand what I was saying.

I will try to clarify: Jesus had no problem treating His detractors roughly, when He deemed it necessary for correction.

It's really great that you realized I'm not Jesus. But we also must use EVERY example Jesus left us, not just the ones that sit well with you.

I'm not going to be foolish and say I've never said anything "over the top" that is why I'm not Jesus. I'm not perfect.

But I do have the right to defend myself, my religious teachers, and whomever I feel shares my efforts to defend against liars and fools, both terms that Jesus, John, and Paul used against those, who, by their own actions, proved themselves worthy.

But you're safe, Dave. I don't see any of those things in you. So lighten up.

[dodge]

James 1:19 says...

"...my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God."

Colossians 3:8 says...

"But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."

Ephesians 4:31-32 says...

"Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice; and be kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another..."

Psalms 37:8 tells us...

"Cease from anger, and forsake wrath:"

Ecclesiastics 7:9 says...

"Be not hasty in thyt spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools."

Proverbs 14:17 says...

"He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly:"

[smyrna]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

"Woe unto ye hypocrites!"

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Smyrna,
believe it or not I think I did understand what you said.

I just distinguish between the religious leaders that he raked over the coals and the common man whom he had tremendous compassion for.

I can find no example of Jesus ever giving the common man a thrashing over doctrinal issues.

Most of those we discourse with are not leaders in any religion but are just as you and I are.
Seekers with differences in understanding.

So I find no legitimate reason to be brash and debasing.
He didn't call the common man any kind of names.
We don't have liscense to do so either.
(it is just a human trait to enjoy such nonsense)

Defend your beliefs with integrity,civility and respect and you may find discourse a more pleaserable and profitable experience.

Plus when we call others unwarrented names
(and they are unwarrented)
we discredit our own testimony and defense of our beliefs.

This is what I see when someone starts with the rediculous name calling.
(jerk,idiot,moron,etc et al.
"Insecurity and doubt."

God wants to reveal "His character" through our weak vessels.We only have to allow Him to do this.

Dave
</font>}

[smyrna]

Ok, that's cool Dave.

The problem with your assesment is: then why are "common" people here trying to act like theologians?

However, if you really think that Godchild or Franklin, or Arron are theologians, then you certainly have that right to think so.

But then if you do, they are certainly exposing themselves to be called fools. Correcto?

I'd also, if I were you, dispose of the "insecurity and doubt" suspicions.

It sure seems everyone here is supremely confidant, and that is why for months everyone has been standing their ground, except for the disappearing acts the detractors like to perform whenever they are challenged to prove one of their foolish accusations without any documentation.

However Dave,I do see your point.

Let's say I play lovey dovey with the detractors.

And let's see how long it takes for the malicious lies, insinuations, and accusations come flying from them, as they foolishly think I have become soft and vulnerable.

See, I'm hoping you are aiming your comments at ALL those who participate here, because it is all too common for the detractors to criticize us for the very same things their comrades are doing.

If you want proof of that, just ask.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Smyrna,
I hope you know that all comments I may make apply to me equally.Maybe especially to me.

It was not my intention to single out any one individual at all but to show that "we all" are responcible for our attitudes and behaviour towards others.

I am not suggesting a "love fest" at all.
Just a make your point and leave off the narrative and insults.

Believe me when I say,"we all have had our moments".
I just find that insults take away from any point that someone is trying to express.

Now if you where to say that you thought what I posted seemed rediculous to you,I would not see that as an insult but an opinion.

I am responcible for the way I treat others when I represent the Lord.
It is personal responcibilty.
My words and treatment of others reflects upon my character.
I personally try not to react to posts but instead to act with character that supports the loving nature of our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ in my representation of Him.

Maybe that is the better way for me to express what it is that I'm trying to point out.

Considering my human frailty and all that encompasses that battle.
Col.3

Worthy is the Lamb,
Dave
</font>}

[smyrna]

Mr. Munsun,

Instead of going point for point, let me just say I agree with you more than I disagree.

I would like to point out one thing: that when I use a negative descriptive term for someone or group, that is meant to enhance the core of my cmment, not to distract from it.

I also don't say such things to try and hurt someone. I do it to show their point is not making any sense to me, and in a broader scope, not to anyone else either.

If rebuttals are presented correctly, no one would make much sense of the targeted comments, and thus it renders invalid those comments, and historically that has been fairly easy to do with the CB detractors, since they contradict themselves so often.

Have a good day, Dave.

[skooter942000]

Pro 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin:
but among the righteous [there is] favour.


Pro 14:10 The heart knoweth his own bitterness;
and a stranger doth not intermeddle with his joy.


Pro 14:11 The house of the wicked shall be overthrown:
but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish.


Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man,
but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.


Pro 14:13 Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful;
and the end of that mirth [is] heaviness.


Pro 14:14 The backslider in heart shall be filled
with his own ways: and a good man [shall be satisfied] from himself.


Pro 14:15 ¶ The simple believeth every word:
but the prudent [man] looketh well to his going.


Pro 14:16 A wise [man] feareth, and departeth from evil:
but the fool rageth, and is confident.


Pro 14:17 [He that is] soon angry dealeth foolishly:
and a man of wicked devices is hated.


<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">MOCKING GOD, (Then QUOTING HIM),
- is a HYPOCRITICAL ACT. / (dodge)
- just so you know.
</font></font></font>

[watchman_2]

One has to laugh when Dodge uses scripture for any point. On the Evolution threads, he once posted [but asked for it to be removed] that the Bible was a good source of paper when he runs out of toilet tissue.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
One has to laugh when Dodge uses scripture for any point.
END QUOTE

It doesn't seem a bit more outrageous than when potty mouthed Shepherd's Chapel students use it ... and at least he doesn't claim to walk by the commandments of the bible.

[smyrna]

The question is: does Stage Director walk by the commandments of God?

Because she must know that her accusations about the SC and those students who study with the SC are NOT racists, or anti-semites.

The porrf is right here and at Stromfrotn.

So she either confesses that she gave false testimony against the SC, bore false witness, and openly confesses and apologizes, or she doesn't and we can write into that what we will.

And I hope she deosn't get as silly as Rachel did yesterday, and say that we must apologize before she does. We didn't falsely accuse anyone here.

These threads were started by detractors who made all sorts of false accusations,and still do.

We're still waiting for the revealing of Stage Director's secrets about the SC.

(See Rave Reviews for am/sc by Neo-Nazi Forum thread for her comment in that regard)

Of course, it's hard to find any post by a detractor that does not exhibit hypocrisy.

I geuss Stage Director has never seen Franklin's post about how someone he was communicating with here should have male on male oral sex with an Orangutan.

Or Godchild's post where she said something to the effect of: "He's a jerk, and you can add 'off' to that if you wish."

Or Balaam's insinuation that I had homosexual relations with Pastor Murray, the only detractor to actually apologize and remove himself from the forum for doing it.

And of course, there is the more recent false accusation, based entirely on hearsay coming from a still unknown and unverifable person, that claimed that Pastor Murray was caught "grove worshipping" in his barn,and, depending on what post you read written by the detractors, meant either Baal worship or sex with an animal.

I guess none of that is "potty-mouth" behavior by the detractors,according to Stage Director.

If she continues to ignore the evidence on the Rave Reviews thread,and fails to follow up on her "revelations" she claims she has about the SC, then we can just categorize her among Franklin and Godchild, as chronic liars that are in their own world, and refuse to face the reality they have been proven wrong.

(Message edited by smyrna on April 24, 2007)

[stage_director]

QUOTE
I geuss Stage Director has never seen Franklin's post about how someone he was communicating with here should have male on male oral sex with an Orangutan.

Or Godchild's post where she said something to the effect of: "He's a jerk, and you can add 'off' to that if you wish."

Or Balaam's insinuation that I had homosexual relations with Pastor Murray, the only detractor to actually apologize and remove himself from the forum for doing it.
END QUOTE

So what's your point? That two wrongs equal right?

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Not very many have the ability to learn from history.
Even if it's recent.

I was just trying to find a conversation that has something to do with my Savior but it seems that topic is off limits.
Too many selfs involved in villifying others.

So now,
where is Jesus today?
Who is interested in what Jesus thinks or what He might have to say?

Since I have named no one ,you can go and defend this nonsense all you want but you can't make it right in the eyes of the Lord by claiming that He authors it or condones it in any way.

If that is what you think ,you are way off.
Isaiah 55:8-11.

Talk all you want of God but nothing of His nature shows very often in this type of flesh fest.

Now don't go and get me wrong here,I'm no better than others are but that will not prevent me from speaking the truth.
(I have to deal with it too)

It's just shameful what is presented in God's name and I am not talking about doctrine either.
God is more interested in building character than He is in filling us with the letter that killeth because it's the Spirit that gives life not the letter of the word.(don't assume)

Take your free will and enjoy it however you want to but don't think that the Lord honors such mindlessness because He does not.

Personal excuses that don't cut it with the Lord:
1.They sarted it.
2.I'm just insulting them because Jesus would have done it too.
3.I don't have to do what the Word says I do.
4.I like to express my fleshes desires and habits.
5.I thought God hated every one but those I hang with.

The truth is that there are no exceptable excuses for not obeying God's Word to love all people.
Saying that Jesus did this to the religious leaders doesn't cut it either.
These are not religious leaders that you are dealing with.
They are people who have been made in the image of God himself.
Frail weak people like you or I am.

It is writen that we have the mind of Christ but I wonder
when are we going to use it?

</font>}