Are you a here or are you a child of God [Archive]

smyrna

04-17-2007, 02:13 PM

Godchild is a liar, just read the 'Godchild, This Thread Is For You' for proof!

Watchman is right. We "Scers" will welcome anyone here. Many have come and disagreed with us, but we don't call them "devils spawn." Godchild will NEVER be able to produce any post that proves this.

Godchild is just one of the Cultbuster's Cult members, who have spent months here wasting their time, lying about us and failing to prove their allegations, and carrying on disjointed "discussions" about what the SC teaches and believes.

However, since they were found to be liars and just a bunch of freaks, we don't treat them like the more stable people who come here. That can be proven, by looking through the past disucssion threads.

Godchild conveniently forgets that her own words have been her own worst enemy. Her lies, false accusations, and other nonsense is easy to see if anyone cares enough to take the time to read all her garbage.

That is why she is getting more angry, and that is also easy to see here.

Too bad she just can't stay offline but I guess she didn't stay long at her new job, or has already tired of playing with her little chicks!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

godchild

04-17-2007, 06:16 PM

Read smearnas first post here. See how kind he is to everyone. NOT!!!

smearna and watchman are the two worst liars on factnet. They used to be on cultbusters, carm and the season too, but they got booted out for it.

terluvire

04-17-2007, 06:20 PM

gochild,

Are you a contortionists? You try to twist everything.

It will catch up with you if you do not repent.

godchild

04-17-2007, 06:21 PM

What was it scoot accused people who hate sc of? (Not that people are here saying they hate am or sc, only their false doctrines). That it is ex-scers who hate am/sc the most. I think that should be changed to "Ex-Christians are the ones who love am/sc the most."

I am a child of God. How about you! Praise the Lord!

smyrna

04-17-2007, 06:32 PM

Godchild wrote:

"Not that people are here saying they hate am or sc, only their false doctrines)."

Godchild posts so much garbage, she can't remember saying about Pastor Murray "I hate the man" or about me: "I hate the jerk."

"smearna and watchman are the two worst liars on factnet. They used to be on cultbusters, carm and the season too, but they got booted out for it."

I never got booted off the Season, I am proud I got booted off CARM and CB, just for the record. I post as Martureo on the Season, Godchild knows this, can't prove any of her allegations about me getting bootd off the Season, and can't prove
I am one of the biggest liars on Factnet. Just more silly gibberish, when she supposedly has a new job.

She's been online all day today, a Monday. Just for the record, I'm at work, but have a great deal of time off this time, because the boat I'm on is in the shipyard undergoing maintenance.

Hooray, a working vacation!

angie0401

04-17-2007, 10:08 PM

Godchild wrote:

"Not that people are here saying they hate am or sc, only their false doctrines)."

smyran wrote:
Godchild posts so much garbage, she can't remember saying about Pastor Murray "I hate the man" or about me: "I hate the jerk."

Don't forget this one:

godchild
Senior Member
Username: godchild

Post Number: 4704
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.182.235.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 3:56 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll let "smart-a$$" copy my reply to angie's on the other thread. Hurry up, jerk. I want her to see it again, and again. Yes, I hate her like I hate a pimple. Squeeze it, pop it, forget about it. lol

I love the weather this time of year. Its a great time to get out and get "back in shape"; get rid of those "winter" hibernating pounds, good for the heart too. Helps the "self-esteem", and gets the cobwebs out of your brain.

Or the posts where she called me a bich at least half a dozen times and the ones where she felt it necessary to call one of us "fat" (and "fat legs"), the ones where she called us "red-faced devils", "satan-worshippers" and "hate-mongers".

Oh, but she doesn't hate any of us. She's here to "let her light shine" and "spread the Gospel". http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

smyrna

04-18-2007, 02:23 AM

Good post Angie,

Yeah, it's WHOSE Gospel she is spreading. After all the lies, is there any wonder?

watchman_2

04-18-2007, 03:05 AM

godchild [satan's tit] wrote,

I am a child of God. How about you! Praise the Lord!

Guess what -- Satan was a Son of God too. He turned wicked. So, has godchild.

godchild

04-18-2007, 02:26 PM

Since angie is advancing smearna's lies, it is up to her to prove it.
re:smyran wrote:
Godchild posts so much garbage, she can't remember saying about Pastor Murray "I hate the man" or about me: "I hate the jerk."

Because I think angie is a cold bich, smearna is a smart-a$$ (agreeing with his own words), curiosity about which of the sc women were childish enough to pose in front of posters to/for me and hiding their faces, but showing their legs (one pair fat), that you preach hate which makes you hate-mongerers, does not mean I 'hate' am or any of you. I just think you are pathetic, small-minded, ignorant, childish, and spreaders of false doctrine.

godchild

04-18-2007, 02:44 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
watchman_2 (watchman_2)
Intermediate Member
Username: watchman_2

Post Number: 158
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 4.232.207.249
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 2:38 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear,

I know that you previously asked for some biographical information and I did not provide it. My personal biography is not relevant to God’s word. However, since you asked again, I will provide you some.

I am a 48 year old widower with a 6 year old daughter. I lost my wife to cancer when my daughter was 1. My wife never once complained while she was terminally ill, though her pain and discomfort were considerable. I was truly proud of her and I still miss her tremendously.

I am an engineer by trade. So, I deal in objective review of facts/figures/analysis almost everyday. Some say faith comes first, but not for me. The facts, logic, common sense, and analysis must be reviewed first.

godchild

04-18-2007, 02:46 PM

By the way, could you tell "I'm here"?

angie0401

04-18-2007, 05:53 PM

Vivian said:
Since angie is advancing smearna's lies, it is up to her to prove it.

I just did, but in case you missed it, here it is again:

godchild
Senior Member
Username: godchild

Post Number: 4704
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.182.235.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 3:56 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll let "smart-a$$" copy my reply to angie's on the other thread. Hurry up, jerk. I want her to see it again, and again. Yes, I hate her like I hate a pimple. Squeeze it, pop it, forget about it. lol

I love the weather this time of year. Its a great time to get out and get "back in shape"; get rid of those "winter" hibernating pounds, good for the heart too. Helps the "self-esteem", and gets the cobwebs out of your brain.

AND

Because I think angie is a cold bich, smearna is a smart-a$$ (agreeing with his own words), curiosity about which of the sc women were childish enough to pose in front of posters to/for me and hiding their faces, but showing their legs (one pair fat), that you preach hate which makes you hate-mongerers, does not mean I 'hate' am or any of you. I just think you are pathetic, small-minded, ignorant, childish, and spreaders of false doctrine.

Thanks for proving my point, Vivian.

Still letting that light shine, aren't you? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

smyrna

04-18-2007, 05:53 PM

It's amazing that we actually QUOTED Godchild saying she hates so and so, yet she now claims she hates no one.

Okay, Godchild, have some more Kool-aid.

But then again, are we not used to her lying, and then accuses US of lying? She is not here, to answer her question, and never was.

She is so far out that she is off the charts.

She says we preach hate, but has never proved it. How many times do we have to challenge her or anyone else, for that matter, who claim SC teaches racism and anti-semitism, to get EXPERTS from national organizations that fight such things to agree with her?

There are two problems:

One is that Godchild and others are too cowardly, and enjoy falsely accusing people so much, to actually find out if anyone of note actually agrees with them.
Now if they can't do that, why listen to them? They are too cowardly to write the NAACP, or ADL, etc. and see what they have to say.

The second problem is that they refuse to ever offer any proof of their allegations. What they claim to be proof would be thrown out of any court of law.

Heresay, opinions, and unproveable accusations from whacko websites are not proof.

And they know that is all they have.

SC is on TV for 20 years, and NO media, NO ADL, NO NAACP, and even many websites don't consider the SC racist or anti-semitic.

In FACT, Godchild pointed us to a website last week that actually had a favorable comment about the SC from a black couple!

Of course, she only wanted us to see the negative stuff there, but I always check out her claims, because 90% of the time, she has twisted, misrepresented, or just plain lied about whatever she was claiming someone said.

Hey Godchild, are you still here?

If you are, how about answering why you aren't writing the NAACP? Or the Anti-Defamation League?
How about contacting Al Sharpton? Or Jessee Jackson? Or CBS, ABC, NBC? CNN?

If not, why not? Tell them all about your "evidence". Document what they say, and get back to us.

We'll still be here.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

stage_director

04-19-2007, 12:58 AM

QUOTE
SC is on TV for 20 years, and NO media, NO ADL, NO NAACP, and even many websites don't consider the SC racist or anti-semitic.
END QUOTE

Not true ...

- The American Voice Radio includes Murray in it's expose' "Recognizing Christian Identity" on their website ... http://www.theamericanvoice.com/

- The Christian Research Journal (Fall, 1992 issue) wrote an article titled "Identity: A "Christian" Religion for White Racists" in which Murray features prominently. Excerpts from this article are all the web now ... About.com, Wikipedia, Answers.com, lots of online encyclopedias, lots of newspaper sites and journals.

dodge

04-19-2007, 01:20 AM

Smyrna, funny you should mention the Jewish Anti-Defamation League. They specifically address "Christian Identity" and its belief in the "Serpent Seed." One of the racist doctrines that they include is the belief that white people of European descent are the descendants of the "Lost Tribes" of ancient Israel.

Isn't that one of your beliefs? The JDL calls this idea "virulent racist and anti-Semitic." They call the "two-seed" or "seedliner" theory the "most extreme expression of Identity anti-Semitism." Part of this racist ideology is to trace Adam and Eve's other son, Abel, through the lost tribes to today's white European-derived believers. According to the JDL, some of the ideas that make one a member of the Christian Identity movement is to believe that Adam and Eve were white because Adam means "to show blood," or blush, which they claim is only possible for whites; the rejection of the rapture.

Interesting how the definition of Christian Identity matches the beliefs of the Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Church.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Christian_Identity.asp

smyrna

04-19-2007, 01:52 AM

This is how the detractors work: They label the SC a cult, and "identity Church" racists etc.

But do we see any public outcry that the SC should be taken off the airwaves? No.

Global TV, shortwave radio, a huge mailing list, but NO CBS, NBC, ABC, etc, is calling on this so-called evil, racist cult, that is (according to the detractors like Franklin, Godchild, Dodge, etc) mounting a new holocaust against the Jews, and forming lynch mobs to hang blacks and other non-whties.

It's ridiculous. For Dodge, Godchild, Franklin, etc, to be right, every major media outlet, not to mention thousands of people must be wrong.

These threads are valuable. What do you think the mainstream media would do if Dodge were a high profile individual, and they got hold of
all the posts this clown has dropped on this web site?

The headlines would read: "Evidence Dodge is unstable, alleged drug problem comes to light via Internet chat room, ramblin diatribes against Christians and Jews"
They'd be all over him like a new suit, he'd be the next Mel Gibson.

Dodge thinks we are so stupid, we are prepared to believe that somehow, the Shepherd's Chapel has been flying under the ADL's radar for over twenty years.

I looked on their site, not one mention of the SC.

Then he slips in this deceptive comment:

"Interesting how the definition of Christian Identity matches the beliefs of the Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Church."

This idiot is still trying to associate the SC with the extremist hate theology that is attributed to the groups the ADL DOES mention on their web site.

Now we are come to this conclusion: that the ADL must be wrong in its failure to list the SC by name, for Dodge to be right.

Well, as usual, he isn't.

He's just another sick, frustrated whack job that hates any Christians and God anyway. What a waste of kilobytes this guy is.

The worst thing about it, there are people that actually believe his jibberish. But they are as far out as he is.

This guy and those who side with him should be sucking down Thorazine and rocking back and forth in a padded room.

(Message edited by smyrna on April 18, 2007)

smyrna

04-19-2007, 02:04 AM

Dodge can copy and paste his drivel all over the Internet for all I care. But wherever I find it, it will be met with tbhis comment:

This is how the detractors work: They label the SC a cult, and "identity Church" racists etc.

But do we see any public outcry that the SC should be taken off the airwaves? No.

Global TV, shortwave radio, a huge mailing list, but NO CBS, NBC, ABC, etc, is calling on this so-called evil, racist cult, that is (according to the detractors like Franklin, Godchild, Dodge, etc) mounting a new holocaust against the Jews, and forming lynch mobs to hang blacks and other non-whties.

It's ridiculous. For Dodge, Godchild, Franklin, etc, to be right, every major media outlet, not to mention thousands of people must be wrong.

These threads are valuable. What do you think the mainstream media would do if Dodge were a high profile individual, and they got hold of
all the posts this clown has dropped on this web site?

The headlines would read: "Evidence Dodge is unstable, alleged drug problem comes to light via Internet chat room, ramblin diatribes against Christians and Jews"
They'd be all over him like a new suit, he'd be the next Mel Gibson.

Dodge thinks we are so stupid, we are prepared to believe that somehow, the Shepherd's Chapel has been flying under the ADL's radar for over twenty years.

I looked on their site, not one mention of the SC.

Then he slips in this deceptive comment:

"Interesting how the definition of Christian Identity matches the beliefs of the Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Church."

This idiot is still trying to associate the SC with the extremist hate theology that is attributed to the groups the ADL DOES mention on their web site.

Now we are come to this conclusion: that the ADL must be wrong in its failure to list the SC by name, for Dodge to be right.

Well, as usual, he isn't.

He's just another sick, frustrated whack job that hates any Christians and God anyway. What a waste of kilobytes this guy is.

The worst thing about it, there are people that actually believe his jibberish. But they are as far out as he is.

This guy and those who side with him should be sucking down Thorazine and rocking back and forth in a padded room.

dodge

04-19-2007, 02:07 AM

dodge

04-19-2007, 02:13 AM

Again we have one of the members of the Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Christian Identity Church using nasty name-calling to deflect from their antisemitic beliefs:

"This guy and those who side with him should be sucking down Thorazine and rocking back and forth in a padded room."

Attack the messenger and not the message, classic ad hominem tactic.

You didn't answer the question as to how you feel about the Jewish Defense League stating the the Serpent Seed Doctrine is antisemitic and an indication that one is of a Christian Identity mindset.

smyrna

04-19-2007, 02:33 AM

Dodge thinks he can somehow tie the SC with organizations that are truly racist and snti-semitic.

Because he is so stupid, he doesn't realize that the Serpent's Seed doctrine is no more responsible for racism then hair spray is responsible for the extinction of the Mammoth.

Whoever wrote the ADL's opinion is obviously relating on how that teaching has been abused by truly anti-semitic and racist groups.

The teaching itself does not foster racism or anti-semitism.

And the SC is proof of that. We are all children of God. God created all human beings and declared that creation good.

The teachings of Christ clearly tell us we should love our neighbors as ourselves, and was quoting the Old Testament, calling this the first commandment.

Do Dodge can keep playing his stupid games, and I'll keep calling him names.

He isn't a very good messenger, if he can't keep the facts straight.

He has no clue, nor does he really care what the SC teaches.

All this blithering slob is here for is because he has no where else to go.

Next thing you know, he'll be rampaging through some school shooting everyone. He's that far gone.

After all, this guy calls God a murderer! What a freak. How's that for attacking the messenger?

If I was the owner of the messenger service, this guy would be fired for incompetence.

dodge

04-19-2007, 02:41 AM

Smyrna, if you believe that Christ taught that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, then you would not use such vile nasty rhetoric to personally attack other posters. After all, we are your neighbors. If that's true, then this means you want us to treat you in a vile and nasty way; because this is what you put out. This is why you and the other Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Christian Identity Church get so much negative feedback, because we are treating you as you treat us. Got it?

smyrna

04-19-2007, 02:05 PM

Dodge once again shows us his narrow minded views.

Here he is, talking about how we should love our neighbors, not realizing that jesus also was very rough on His detractors.

Here is Dodge, who caled God a murderer, yet now he is telling me all about the Son of God, and how he apparently has so much respect for,he posted all kinds of vile stuff about jesus here.

Furthermore, here is Dodge, balmining the fact we SC students get all sorts of negative feedback. on a forum started by opponents of the SC.

They have chosen this web site to spread rumors, lies, misrepresentations, and other forms of evil and hatred, but we are supposed to just get their snail mail addresses and send them candy, flowers, and cookies.

Even Dodge, ever the hypocrite, in the same post perpetuates his lie that the SC was started by some guy(by referring to SC as "Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Christian Identity Church") I ever even heard of before coming to Factnet, in his silly, feeble attempt to tie the SC in with some other groups that misuse Scripture for their own agenda's sake, an agenda that the SC DOES NOT SHARE.

So like I said before, Dodge can continue his games, but I will rake his post acrosss the coals of truth, and if he wants to keep up the appreance of a ridciulous, foolish imbecile, then he is more than welcome to continue.

arron

04-19-2007, 02:59 PM

godchild dont worry about smyerna.. they are a nut and im not judgeing just looking at the fruit

smyrna

04-19-2007, 05:07 PM

Arron,

One person cannot be a "they." Also, since you people are so into literal translations of words, I cannot be the product of a tree.
(though I'm sure this will open up more stupid comments from the detractors)

Arron, tell us the truth: are you CB clowns on another "mission" to "Yarrum". First, Sharon shows up and now you. Who's next? "Captain" Franklin?

dodge

04-19-2007, 06:25 PM

Hi Smyrna. So you’re telling us that you never heard of Kenneth Goff and his organization, Soldiers of the Cross? Go to the following site, which is the office of the Arkansas Secretary of State:

http://www.sos.arkansas.gov/index.html

On the top right you will see “online services.” Click it, and it will bring you to a list. Go down to “Corporation Entity Search and this will bring you to the dialogue box to look for “Soldiers of the Cross.” In the line marked “Enter Either Name,” type in “Soldiers of the Cross,” and in the RA City and State, type in Gravette, Arkansas. Click on “Search.”

You will find that it says “1 records found,” and under that “Soldiers of the Cross.” Click on it, and you will see that the corporation, “Soldiers of the Cross,” lists as its “fictitious name” (meaning, I assume, “doing business as”) SHEPHERD’S CHAPEL CHURCH. It says that Arnold B. Murray is the registered agent, and his address is 102 Northeast Eighth Street, Gravette, Arkansas. The date that this was filed is July 10, 1991.

Are you still with me? Now, what is “Soldiers of the Cross?” For one thing, Kenneth Goff is listed as its “director.” In the following site there is a reference to Goff writing a letter to Joe McCarthy in 1954 giving him background information on a Fred Zimmerman, who was under investigation. Goff’s attempt at “exposing” Jews got the attention of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, who went after Goff and hounded him until his death in 1972.

http://www.nd.edu/~docctr/OMELIA/Correspondence/CORRESPONDENCE%20IV.html

Arnold Murray began his ministry in California, and was ordained by Oliver Kenneth Goff (director of the Soldiers of the Cross, headquartered in Englewood, Colorado). Now Goff was somewhat of a strange person, who was once a Communist who wrote that fluoridation of water supplies was a conspiracy to tranquilize the masses and make them docile. Goff was also part of the “Brain Washing Manual” of 1955, which L.Ron Hubbard also contributed.

http://www.cesnur.org/2005/brainwash_13.htm

Goff’s Soldiers of the Cross was known as a paramilitary group affiliated with the Minutemen. Robert DePugh was the founder of the Minutemen, and organized the Patriotic Party in 1966, where Goff appeared as a guest speaker.

http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg50955.html

dodge

04-19-2007, 06:26 PM

Let us review: Shepherd’s Chapel Church is a branch of Kenneth Goff’s Soldiers of the Cross. Kenneth Goff is a well-known antiSemite who signed Arnold Murray’s Ministerial License, which says “agreeable to the governing laws and ordinances of the Soldiers of the Cross.”

Goff’s books are still sold on Aryan, White Supremicist and Christian Identity web sites.

http://www.cdlreport.com/

Several sites that expose anti-Semitic literature list Goff as racist:

http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/spc/xml/m0688.xml
http://findingaids.cjh.org/?fnm=AntisemLit2&pnm=AJHS
http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf3p30034h&doc.view=entire_text&brand=d efault

You have been informed, Smyrna. Read the facts, and now tell us you never heard of Kenneth Goff or the Soldiers of the Cross.

dodge

04-19-2007, 06:34 PM

And now I will go back outside and enjoy this beautiful spring day here on the border of northern Massachusetts/southern New Hampshire after many days of cold, dark, rainy/snowy weather. It's supposed to go up into the high sixties to mid seventies this weekend. AT LAST!!!

stage_director

04-19-2007, 06:39 PM

QUOTE
Dodge thinks he can somehow tie the SC with organizations that are truly racist and snti-semitic.
END QUOTE

Soldiers of the Cross dba Shepherd's Chapel, Inc. Gravette to Harrison: less than 100 miles, as the crow flies. KKK National Director Pastor Thomas Robb, Church of Jesus Christ, Independent, Harrison, Ark.

Source ... publiceye.org a 1997 Klan announcement ...

PATRIOTS DAY PICNIC: Thom Robb, National Director of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Identity pastor, is sponsoring a picnic through his Church of Jesus Christ at the SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE CAMPGROUND near Harrison, Arkansas. This is not a Klan event, Robb says, "therefore all white Christians are invited." The dates are May 23-25. You can RSVP at Church of Jesus Christ, PO Box 354, Bergman, AR 72615. Robb has also announced the 1997 Christian Leadership School to be held at the same place this summer for adults and high school students. For just $120, attendees will learn about the "Christian foundation of America as well as it's white racial foundation." In the same issue of Robb's newsletter, the White Patriot, Robb favorably recommends Robert Bork's book, Slouching Towards Gommorrah, and asks subscribers to "Remember the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in your Will or Trust."

stage_director

04-19-2007, 06:40 PM

SOURCE ... Stormfront.org the largest online White Nationalist web forum, a 2004 Klan picnic announcement ...
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:BfWuNDp4zs0J:www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/patriots-day-picnic-22506.html%3Ft%3D22506+%22patriots+day+picnic%22+h arrison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:BfWuNDp4zs0J:www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/patriots-day-picnic-22506.html%3Ft%3D22506+%22patriots+day+picnic%22+h arrison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us)

The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan will have a Patriots Day Picnic at THE SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE CAMP in Harrison , Arkansas. This will be in May, on the 24th, 25th, and the 26th.

SOURCE ... Midwest Action Report, March 1998

Robb's Knights Announce 1998 National Klan Congress Date

ROBB’S KNIGHTS ANNOUNCES 1998 NATIONAL KLAN CONGRESS DATE: The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan headed by Thom Robb will hold their annual National Klan Congress at the SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE CAMP near Harrison, Arkansas over Labor Day weekend - September 4-6. The event will include presentations by Ed Fields, J.B. Stoner, Ralph Forbes, Thom Robb, Rachel Pendergraft, Nathan Robb, and Sandra Pierce. Just prior to the Congress, The Knights will hold a "Christian Leadership School," August 31 – September 4. The Knights also announced the "National Homecoming and White Christian Heritage Culture and Craft Festival" in Pulaski, Tennessee on July 18.

SOURCE ... Empire Knights Kommunity (Events Section) March 2007 at http://www.knights311.org/

The annual Faith and Freedom Conference will be held March 30 -April 1 2007. Listen to great speakers, music, and enjoy the fellowship. It will be at SOTC BIBLE CAMP. just outside of Harrison, Arkansas. It is family friendly.

SOURCE ... Aryan Front Forum (Klan Rallies) http://www.aryan-front.com/viewtopic.php?p=4254&highlight=&sid=e0e912a2d1998f 625ffac06c301b5f5f

pro610

04-19-2007, 07:12 PM

Stage_Director,Dodge.

I find it amazing that Murray is allowed air time on radio or TV with all the information you two just posted on these last few posts.

Perhaps someone should start blowing some whistles to get this guy taken off the air!

smyrna

04-19-2007, 08:00 PM

"Let us review: Shepherd’s Chapel Church is a branch of Kenneth Goff’s Soldiers of the Cross."

Smyrna: The only thing that you'd be reviewing is another lie.

Pastor Murray is no more a racist than the late Strom Thurman, or any other member of the Senate or House who may have entertained racist views IN THEIR PAST.

I can only hope that those who are accusing, will be held to the same standard, and that is being villified FOR LIFE, for things in their past they may not be particularly proud of.

If Dodge and his silly allies had lived in Paul's time, they'd be calling him Saul,(even post-converison, claiming his conversion was a lie)) and claiming he was anti-Christian!!!!

In order for Dodge and others to be correct, that Pastor Murray currently attends racist conferences, picnics, etc, they would also have to practice their own brand of racism.

That is, insinuating that non-white students of the SC are too stupid to realize Pastor Murray is a racist.

As for the proximity of Harris to Gravtte. that measn absolutely nothing.

I live in Louisiana, and I am sure racists live right down the street. But that does not make ME one!

And finally, this is a free country. If Dodge, pro610, or whoever wants to take their case to whomever, to get Murray off the air, hey, by all means do your duty!

Why waste your time here? You can all be heros!!!

Come on, time's a wastin'!

And if you don't do this, what's going to be your excuse???

And if no one listens, what are you going to blame that on?

We'll be waitimg for your "progress" reports.

Clue: Notice how pro610 leaves it up to "someone" to start "blowing whistles to get this guy off the air."

What? You can't do anything yourself, pro610?

Lazy? Afraid? What is it?

Back to Dodge. I wonder if Dodge is so stupid, that he will also tie the Minutemen that are mentioned in his post, with the Minutemen that are now currently watching our borders?

More ridiculousness. Boy, all that "evidence" and Dodge is just going to sit on it, like Godchild, Franklin, and all the others, instead of doing "the right thing" and contacting the media, their senators, etc.

Come on clowns, what are you waiting for?

You are all worthless and weak.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

If Dodge and his silly allies had lived in Paul's time, they'd be calling him Saul,(even post-converison, claiming his conversion was a lie)) and claiming he was anti-Christian!!!!

angie0401

04-19-2007, 08:09 PM

The guilt by association (and similar name) thing is just ridiculous. You know, pro, I belong to the Baptist church, but there is another church that uses the Baptist name (Westboro Baptist) that is just waaayyy off the deep-end and while they have some of the same beliefs as my church (Jesus - the only begotten Son of God, died on the cross for our sins and is the only way to the Father), they are also a radical hate group. Does that mean that my church should be shut down because of these nutcases?

What about the radical Catholic groups? Should someone report Father Corapi because of these people's activities?

Yet some of America's greatest peddlers of hate have themselves been extremist Catholics. The best known of these was Father Charles Coughlin, the Michigan "radio priest" who at his height in the late 1930s was spewing pro-Nazi propaganda on his CBS radio broadcasts. Repeating common anti-Semitic canards, Coughlin blamed the Great Depression on an "international conspiracy of Jewish bankers"; Jews also got the blame for communism. Two weeks after the German national pogrom known as Kristallnacht, Coughlin blamed the Jews for their own persecution, making him a hero in the German press. Also in 1938, Coughlin published an article in his Social Justice weekly ... attacking Jews, atheists and communists. Parts of the article were plagiarized directly from the English translation of a 1935 speech by Hitler's propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels...

Two other priests, both now dead, serve as the primary inspiration for today's radical traditionalist Catholics. The first is Father Denis Fahey, an Irish priest who died in 1954 and was much admired by Coughlin -- just as he is also admired by today's neo-Nazis, some of whom have contributed a number of his quotes to "1,001 Quotes By and About Jews," a feature on the racist Stormfront website.
...

While spouting the same kind of anti-Jewish propaganda as the Nazis, Fahey crafted an argument that he believed should exempt him from the label of anti-Semite. Fahey claimed he didn't hate the Jews per se, but merely opposed their "naturalistic aims."
...
(Today's radical traditionalist Catholics, including the Society of St. Pius X, a far-right powerhouse that has thousands of supporters, continue to claim they are not anti-Semitic, just against "Jewish naturalism.")
blog.charlesrowland.com/blog/_archives/2007/2/20/2749035.html

Fahey's antisemitism, the fringe publication Seattle Catholic said,

...the Christian anti-Semite has for his dream the restoration of the state which "had its foundations in theological principles." If such is the case — as both history and logic demonstrate even to this very day — may we all then have the courage to respond with the words of Fr. Fahey: "In that sense...every sane thinker must be an anti-Semite."

Today, Fr. Fahey is of great interest around the world, quoted and by such organizations as the SSPX, Stormfront, the National Alliance, and Radio Islam.
www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/famous-anti-jewish-christians-315863.html?p=3347013&highlight=Fahey (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/famous-anti-jewish-christians-315863.html?p=3347013&highlight=Fahey)

Now, see, doesn't that sound ridiculous to say that EWTN should be banned from the airwaves because of some radical groups that do NOT speak for the entire Catholic congregation? But SC should be held to that standard??? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

oneway

04-19-2007, 08:22 PM

"I find it amazing that Murray is allowed air time on radio or TV with all the information you two just posted on these last few posts.

Perhaps someone should start blowing some whistles to get this guy taken off the air!"

Since he leases his own transponder space on Galaxy 16 for his
master feed, it would be very difficult if not impossible to
have his airtime removed from there. OTOH, persons could write,
email all known stations that carry him and then present this
evidence, perhaps then they might not give him airtime . But, my guess is the same as smyrna's. No one is going to do anything about anything. This doesn't mean that I agree with the scers. Accusing without taking action to back up those allegations are rather pointless. Actually, I can see why the scers find it funny and don't take any of this serious. No one has proven to them that they are serious. Again, this doesn't mean that I am siding with the scers.

(Message edited by oneway on April 19, 2007)

skooter942000

04-19-2007, 09:59 PM

These Detractors are FUNNY.

....(Well not so much)


There are Atheists here on this listing.

Does this make Believers, - ATHEIST (too)?

- Because we are among them,
-(Protecting our FAITH in CHRIST)

Guilty by association works both ways.
- CHRIST went to SINNERS.

- For their help.
- (Did this make HIM a sinner)?

- (NO IT DID NOT)!!!

- get a new hobby (SC haters)

- (One that makes you happy)
- (Brings you JOY).

Or does falsely accusing CHRISTIANS (make you feel joyful)?

1Cr 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ,
- let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Either you "LOVE OTHERS",
- or you "HATE OTHERS".

- One cannot have TWO MASTERS!!!

And many here , (Serve HATE).
- That is self evident by the messages.


- AGAPE -

- (to the BRETHREN of THE LORD)

(http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif)

dodge

04-19-2007, 10:26 PM

Woe unto thee, thou offspring of a squashed cockroach, for you will see your pomegranates wither!

lutheratx

04-19-2007, 10:53 PM

Dodge I normally wouldn't say someones name but you Ignored my last comment when you jumped my case about God chosing the Jew. Dodge you are so educated can you prove that God did not chose the Jew to bring forward the Gospel? I also mentioned the fact that Peter had his vision in were three times he viewed scavengers and God told him to eat. He responded he would not eat an unclean thing come to find out God was using this vision to teach that the Gentiles (greek word ethnos, same word we get our word ethnic) would no longer be called unclean. Up to this point Jews didn't know that the God of the Jews was also the God of the Gentiles. So Shepherd's Chapel when mentioning chosen race it is not a slur it just means that the Jew was the race that brought forward the Gospel. You want to call me racist virtually and then just skate off when I reply. Hit and run I also apologised for upsetting your ethnic background if maybe what I typed came accross you wrong. Then demanded that you apologise for calling my God a murder. You sir are a murder with you retoric stealing soul away from a loving God. Change your ways man God will still embrace you, and I would too. No matter what the color of your skin is.

Love Luther (real name)

smyrna

04-19-2007, 11:17 PM

Angie and Luteratx,

Great posts! What we are seeing is more "Godchild-like" behavior from the looney bin.

Dodge pretends to be something, I'm just not sure what. It depends on which day which Dodge shows up.
These guys are either drugged out or just lunatic loners, that get their jollies from trying to rattle people. All I can say to them is: keep trying.

In any case, actually I must agree with Oneway's post this time.

Haven't I've always said to the CBers, if they are so sure of themselves, why not get some nationally known organization to agree with them?

It has become obvious that they have no intention of ever trying, because they are cowards who know the game would be over if they don't get what they perceive to be a positive response.

Remember the Franklin mindset:it's not about truth, it's about "winning."

They have never convinced anyone from the SC crowd to abandon and take their side of things.

How may of us SC people have turned others on to the SC program? How many of you fellow SCers have friends that are now studying the Bible because you let them know about the SC?

I've had quite a few friends watch the program and become regular viewers.

We get together sometimes and the conversation may and may not be about the Bible or the SC.

You would think if we were radical cult members, all we would talk about would be the SC.

Back to the main point,the usual pattern is that whenever we challenge the detractors to go get some reinforcements, they bail. We don't see them for a few days, and act like we never challenged them.

That is why to all SC folks I say we should hammer them every chance we get with this challenge.

If they won't write the NAACP, or other groups with their "evidence" then they are just cowards, pure and simple.

Get someone from CBS, NBC, ABC etc. to listen to their drivel, and let's see an expose' on the SC.

If they can't do that, they are what we already know they are: cowards who don't have any clue what they are talking about.

dodge

04-19-2007, 11:49 PM

Luther, my ancestry is 90 percent French/Native American (Micmac). The rest is Spanish and Scottish. My g-g-g-g-g-g-grandfather arrived in North America in the 1660s. There is also a rumor of Moorish blood somewhere down the genetic line; but there is no proof of that. So, though my skin is on the dark side, I would define myself as Anglo-Norman, Caucasian. So, you certainly did not "upset" me in any way in regards to ethnic background.

You ask me if I can prove that God did not chose the Jew to bring forward the Gospel. I really have no argument with that, since the Old Testament is the story of the Hebrews and their relationship with their tribal God. The problem that I have with you Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel advocates is in your belief that what we know of as European Anglo Saxons are the descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel. I don't believe that, I have researched it, and have DNA/genetic proof that the people of Europe, those families/tribes that have lived there for thousands of years, are direct descendants of the first Palaeolithic and Mesolithic settlers going back 10,000 years. This is true for Sweden, Norway, England, France and Germany...who all have what is essentially a Viking, Norse, and Celtic descent. The Lost Tribes did not settle the British Isles. That's a myth, perpetuated by people like Herbert Armstrong in the 1930s through his Worldwide Church of God ministry.

Would you like to discuss current genetic studies into the DNA of native Europeans, and of semitic Hebrews? That would be interesting.

Will, that's my real name.

sugarshrimp

04-20-2007, 01:24 AM

I have grown to hate these SC threads, but I can't stop reading them. I swear, it's better than any soap opera.

Having myself heard Murray use the term "g-o-o-k" rather casually in a sermon, one might question his feelings on other races. Though I know he was a marine in the korean war, so no doubt that was part of the common vernacular. Still, it's not appropriate in a sermon.

Murray does state in his "germany is judah" sermon that jews in New York are kenites. Do most SCer's hold this to be true? That's a mighty broad brush to paint so many with.

On the other hand, who cares if Murray was racist years ago, so long as he isn't any more. I personally reject the notion that serpent seed or christian identity = anti-semitism. I don't necessarily share these views, but please stop using the guilt by association fallacy when making accusations.

dodge

04-20-2007, 02:21 AM

"sugarshrimp" -- you said that you reject the idea that Christian Identity equals anti-semitism. Are you sure that you know what Christian Identity means?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

http://www.rickross.com/groups/christian_identity.html

(Message edited by Dodge on April 19, 2007)

sugarshrimp

04-20-2007, 02:46 AM

When I referred to "Christian identity" perhaps I should have used the term british-israelism. Believing in this doctrine does not make one anti-semitic, even if they believe jews to be kenites, devils, or whatever. So long as they treat jews as people and give them the standard respect due all humans.

Murray himself teaches to leave them be and that they(kenites) can convert and be saved like anyone else. That is not standard among the racist white nationalist groups as far as I can tell.

I have frequented many white nationalist forums, and while some of them retain similarities with SC, they use their beliefs as a justification for hate. Sc doesn't do that as far as I'm aware. Therefore, there is no connection as far as I'm concerned.

If SC starts using their doctrines to justify virulent hatred or racism, then we can relegate them to the trash heap with the rest of those "churches", but until then, we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

stage_director

04-20-2007, 03:10 AM

Soldiers of the Cross is the parent company of Shepherd's Chapel, which, btw, must preach "in agreement" to their "laws and ordinances." Employees paychecks say "Soldiers of the Cross." (I know one) Soldier's of the Cross also has a bible campground less than 100 miles away that hosts the activities of the KKK and Aryan Nation.

I knew the Soldiers of the Cross affiliation years ago, with the exception of it being the parent company. Considering what this organization of Goff, Gillaspie and Lovell stands for ... if Murray were not like minded then why would he not have cut the tie to extremist racists a long time ago?

dodge

04-20-2007, 03:27 AM

Stage Director, I think we have to be careful about that term "Soldiers of the Cross." It has been proven that Shepherd's Chapel is a branch of Kenneth Goff's Soldiers of the Cross; but there is no proof that the Shepherd's Chapel is in any way related to the KKK Soldiers of the Cross. The term is used by many groups, including mainstream Christian Churches. There are songs that sing about being a "soldier of the cross," and George Bush himself has used the term in relationship to his Crusade in the Middle East. The term itself originated as a reference to the Christian Crusaders, I believe. There are a lot of Christians with no affiliation to anti-semitic groups who consider themselves "soldiers of the cross." Until I see proof that Shepherd's Chapel is affiliated with the KKK version of the Soldiers of the Cross, then I will reserve my judgement.

angie0401

04-20-2007, 05:40 AM

stage director,
There are many groups that use the name Soldiers of the Cross and you know that.
Tell me ONE KKK or White Supremacist group that allows anyone other than whites to join, attend or work for their group. If you know people that work at SC, then you know that there are people of color that are members, workers and attendees.

Which begs another question, do you think that these non-white members, attendees and employees are so stupid that they would spend one second with someone associated with a white supremacist/aryan/kkk group??!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

Why are you trying so hard to twist something to fit your agenda? If you must try to play the guilt by association card, then it just proves your accusations are unfounded.

dodge

04-20-2007, 01:48 PM

Angie -- May I ask you a question? As a disciple of the Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Church (I say this because it HAS been proven that Kenneth Goff's Soldiers of the Cross Church is the parent organization of Shepherd's Chapel), do you believe that the people that are known today as European "Anglo-Saxons" are the descendants of the so-called "Lost Tribes of Israel"?

I know that the Mormons, as a basic tenet of their faith, believed that Native Americans were descended from the Lost Tribes; and when geneticists proved that the DNA of Native Americans had no relationship to those people whose roots were in the Middle or Near East, the Mormons had to confront that.

http://genealogy.about.com/b/a/112251.htm

Would you question, as a member of the Solders of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Church, your beliefs if it is proven that the Lost Tribes did not settle the British Isles; and that native Europeans did not descend from people whose roots were in the Middle East (Israelites)?

smyrna

04-20-2007, 01:50 PM

"It has been proven that Shepherd's Chapel is a branch of Kenneth Goff's Soldiers of the Cross"...

NO, SC is not a branch of anything. If this Kenneth Goff is even alive, the fact is that Pastor Murray's ministerial credentials where intiated when, in the 1930's? Earlier?

Pastor Murray has said that the SC is a separate Church, not a part of any organization.

When it has suited them, the detractors made an issue of that.

"He doesn't answer to anyone, not a part of any denomination,just like all cult leaders, blah blah blah"...

Now they want to say it is some branch of Soldiers of the Cross.

Of course, such 100% contradictions are common among the detractors.

Like Angie said, they twist the facts, or add non-facts to fit their accusation of the week.

angie0401

04-20-2007, 03:47 PM

Dodge,
If you're going to address me directly and try to put a label on me, at least be accurate. I am a disciple of Christ, a member of the Baptist church and I study with Pastor Murray, along with other preachers. I don't think I have to believe every single thing any person believes/preaches; that would be rather cultish, wouldn't you say?

The belief in the lost tribes (which is Biblical) is not a tenet of my faith or any other SC member's faith, so whether the lost tribes are the groups you say or not is of very little consequence to me.

david_munson

04-20-2007, 04:13 PM

Smyrna,
We are all weak but no one is worthless.
If you really believe that people are worthless than you don't have the heart of Christ.
He would never say such a thing after laying His life down for those that you consider to be "worthless people".

Such a statement is an insult to His shedding of His own Blood for "all".

}

smyrna

04-20-2007, 06:10 PM

Dave,

You are a champion of thaking things out of context.

When I said the detractors were worthless and weak, the context was set in the issue of why they don't campaign against the SC to major media, anti-racist and other orgs, etc.

Because in that regard, they certainly have been worthless and weak.

Do I really have to explain further? I didn't mean they were COMPLETELY worthless as human beings.(though they are getting closer to that "ideal")

It also is very interesting that the detractors apparently don't have an argument they deem strong enough to take to the major media outlets, NAACP,etc. you know, all the others.

No, what they did do is try and play the guilt by association card, and they had to manufacture an association even to do it!

Thus, if anything is completely worthless here, it is their arguments, and their so-called "evidence"

I think that is great, because their own action, and/or inactions, are exposing their weaknesses.

stage_director

04-20-2007, 10:02 PM

QUOTE
Stage Director, I think we have to be careful about that term "Soldiers of the Cross." It has been proven that Shepherd's Chapel is a branch of Kenneth Goff's Soldiers of the Cross; but there is no proof that the Shepherd's Chapel is in any way related to the KKK Soldiers of the Cross.
END QUOTE

Soldiers of the Cross dba Shepherd's Chapel Church was registered with the State of Arkansas in 1991 ... it was originally The Church of Jesus Church, also Soldiers of the Cross. Murray took over the ministry of The Church of Jesus Christ from Oliver Kenneth Goff, who took over from Wesley Swift. Goff was an officer of Soldiers of the Cross, Englewood, CO.

From the KKK's website ...

"Our national director is Pastor Thomas Robb. He attended seminary in EVERGREEN, COLORADO at the SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE INSTITUTE on scholarship where he received a Bachelor of Theology degree and was ordained a Baptist minister. He received his doctorate through private study." (in California)

The Soldiers of the Cross Bible Institute is 20 miles from the Soldiers of the Cross headquarters in Englewood, CO., the same Soldiers of the Cross that ordained Murray. This bible college also went by the name of Rocky Mountain Kingdom Gospel Bible Institute, although information under either name is almost impossible to get.

From the "Forward" of "America, Zion of God" by Kenneth Goff - revised by Pastor Thom Robb, "I first read America - Zion of God when I was a student at the Rocky Mountain Kingdom Gospel Institute in Evergreen, Colorado. It was 1964."

From the archives of the correspondence of Senator Joe McCarthy (Univ Notre Dame):

""Soldiers of the Cross"
Date: November 9, 1954
From: Kenneth Goff (Director, Soldiers of the Cross)
To: Joe McCarthy
Content: Giving McCarthy some background information of a Mr. Fred Zimmerman, who was apparently under investigation."

On the KKK site under the Klan's "Who's Who" ...

"Fannie Nevers - This fascinating woman taught theology at the Soldiers of the Cross Bible Institute in Evergreen, Colorado where Pastor Robb received his ordination. After leaving the college to return to her home state of Texas this woman had a congregation of over 600 until her death a few years ago. She was an articulate spokeswoman in opposition to racemixing, homosexuality, globalism, abortion, and illegal immigration."

Murray is ordained by the same Soldiers of the Cross organization as Pastor Thom Robb, his church is a branch of that entity.

franklin

04-21-2007, 02:09 AM

Angie claims to be a member of the Baptist Church but she still doesn't have the courage to go and tell her minister she believes both Adam and Eve had sex with a serpent and that Cain is the spawn of Satan AND that she is part of a group that carries the same ideas as the KKK and the Neo Nazi.

I think anyone who claims to be a Christian has to believe every single thing Jesus Christ believes/preaches; that is not cultish, wouldn't you say?

That is being a true Christian!

If you're a disciple of Christ you wouldn't subject yourself to this heresy of Arnold Murray!

smyrna

04-21-2007, 02:28 AM

S-D wrote:

"Murray is ordained by the same Soldiers of the Cross organization as Pastor Thom Robb, his church is a branch of that entity."

Yes, and the question is when? And it was a very long time ago, and you presume and assume that Murray has walked lockstep with those people ever since.

Like I said before, if people like you lived in Paul's time, you'd still be calling him Saul, and denying that he ever changed his way of thinking!

Murray is in his late eighties. Do you have any idea at all of this country's history? How racism permeated the culture? For God's sake,it is more likely than not that your own ancestry is FULL of racists! Would you like to be caled a racist because of of your great grandparents were racists?

I'm not justifying anyone's racism, but what I'm trying to convey is that many people changed their attidtudes about race since the defining movements of the late 50's through the present, INCLUDING Pastor Murray IF he ever had truly racist attitudes.

For you to be right, ALL the non-white employees and students at he SC would have to be wrong. I'll believe them over you any day of the week.

Furthemore, you, Franklin, Godchild and all the others who are sitting on all this so-called "evidence", are wasting your time wtih us.

Because if you really are that motivated and angry, then take your so-called evidence to the major media outlets,demand a journalistic investigation, contact the NAACP, JDL, ADL etc.

If you do not, it will prove many things, things you will not want to be known for, even though we already know what those things are.

If you accept my challenge,(which you won't) the only thing that will happen is that those people will think of you the same way we SC stduents do.

So quit wasting your time, and get to writing all those emails, letters, making phone calls, etc.

Otherwise it is YOU, like Franklin, who is a coward and liar.

smyrna

04-21-2007, 02:48 AM

Hey FRANKIE,

You wrote:

"Angie claims to be a member of the Baptist Church but she still doesn't have the courage to go and tell her minister she believes both Adam and Eve had sex with a serpent and that Cain is the spawn of Satan AND that she is part of a group that carries the same ideas as the KKK and the Neo Nazi.

I think anyone who claims to be a Christian has to believe every single thing Jesus Christ believes/preaches; that is not cultish, wouldn't you say?

That is being a true Christian!"

SMYRNA: Frankie claims to be a member of the Methodist Church (the one that has lesbian church leaders)and he still does not have the courage http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif to not only protest that, but has STILL refused to address "illogical_al's" claims that Moses did not write the Torah, and that satan does not exist.

I bet he doesn't have the courage http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif to tell his Methodist minister that he belongs to a group that denies Moses wrote the Torah, and accepts "liberal" theological views such as Satan not existing as a real entity, only as some force, and other whacko ideas.

Frankie does not have the courage http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif to tell his minister that he follows the publishers of a website called Onehumanrace.com that teaches that the races came from genetic mistakes, and a curse, and that modern man is not as intelligent as ancient man.

Frankie also does not have the courage http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif to take his stupid lies and allegations to the major media organizations, or the NAACP, JDL, ADL, etc, because he is such a coward, he is afraid they won't agree with him, and he would never be able to live that down, at least with us.

Frankie said: "I think anyone who claims to be a Christian has to believe every single thing Jesus Christ believes/preaches; that is not cultish, wouldn't you say?"

Funny Frankie, I don't remember you telling "illogical_al" that, a member of your own little group at Cultbusters.com.au.

Why don't you tell HIM that Jesus didn't say a bunch of different authors wrote the Torah? He also didn't teach that Satan was just a literary device, or that he "carried out God's evil instruction" as "illogical_al" put it.

Coming here and criticizing Angie and not "illogical_al" is pretty cultish, isn't it?

angie0401

04-21-2007, 02:51 AM

franklin said:
Angie claims to be a member of the Baptist Church but she still doesn't have the courage to go and tell her minister she believes both Adam and Eve had sex with a serpent and that Cain is the spawn of Satan AND that she is part of a group that carries the same ideas as the KKK and the Neo Nazi.
I hate to bust your bubble, franklin (ok - not really!), but my pastor and I DO discuss my beliefs. He is also aware that I study with SC because hubby & I are head of ordinances and when we go to celebrate Passover, we often have to reschedule the Lord's Supper because we aren't there to prepare it. I also am brave enough http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif to actually use my SC Passover pen IN THE CHURCH!!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

I think anyone who claims to be a Christian has to believe every single thing Jesus Christ believes/preaches; that is not cultish, wouldn't you say?

I think it's just peachy that YOU get to decide what makes one a true Christian. Who needs the Bible when we've got franklin to tell us what we need to do in order to obtain salvation.
But... I thought before that you said I had to believe every word of the Bible - oh as long as Paul didn't say it. (I'm still not sure which translation you think I must believe, though.) Of course, I'm a little confused also because I thought you said I have to believe every word, but then you said there were 2 interpretations of Genesis 3:15 - so which one is the one that makes me a Christian - the one where it is about stomping baby snake eggs or that is the prophesy of the Messiah?

Will you be standing at the gates of Heaven asking if everyone believes every word of the NIV Bible or is it the "Message" Bible or the NRSV or ???

Also, are there any other hidden rules that you have ordained as requirements for me to be a Christian and obtain salvation? Do any of them require writing weird songs and flying space ships because I don't like heights... http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

Oh yeah - next time you talk to my pastor be sure and ask him to give me a call about the upcoming baptisms we have to help with, ok? Thanks!

stage_director

04-21-2007, 04:22 AM

QUOTE
For you to be right, ALL the non-white employees and students at he SC would have to be wrong. I'll believe them over you any day of the week.
END QUOTE

Get real ... you'll never find a black employee at Shepherd's Chapel or in the "inner circle."

stage_director

04-21-2007, 04:34 AM

QUOTE
Which begs another question, do you think that these non-white members, attendees and employees are so stupid that they would spend one second with someone associated with a white supremacist/aryan/kkk group??!!
END QUOTE

Sure do. Shepherd's Chapel is a money making organization and Murray keeps it politically correct enough to not offend the naive. They hear "kings and queens of the ethnos" and feel like they're a part ... little do they know they'll be residing in a different heavenly zipcode, according to Murray.

stage_director

04-21-2007, 04:35 AM

angie0401

04-21-2007, 04:56 AM

sd said:Get real ... you'll never find a black employee at Shepherd's Chapel or in the "inner circle."

Guess that was a ghost I saw working at the bookstore a few weeks ago.. but she was in the picture I took, so it MUST be someone they paid to "pose" as an employee. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

Then all those non-whites at the taping and the Passover MUST have been paid, also! Now I understand - Pastor Murray is a racist, but he doesn't preach racism, unless you're in his "inner circle". Give me a break!!! How many racists/white supremacists/KKK/etc do you know of that deny they are racists and only preach racism to a "select few" in their "inner circle"???

If Pastor Murray is such a racist and preaches racism provide an audio to prove it. OH OH, I remember - I have to have a special antenna to get the "special" teachings. Those hundreds of other tapes that are available to everyone are just a "front".... NO NO - now I understand, it's all subliminal messages and backwards masking. It tells us to hate the non-whites and that we are superior to them. I wonder how that works for all the "non-whites" who order them...

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

terluvire

04-21-2007, 05:18 AM

Good Post Angie!!

SD, It's pretty arrogant for you to say that those outside of the white race are too stupid to know PM teaches racism.

That is a very condescending attitude you have toward the non-white students of SC.

I personally know those of Spanish, black, and Jewish heritage which study along with SC. Some of them are from my own family.

You people are amazing. It is all of you detractors which make comments of non-white students being stupid. None of you will ever hear us make such a comment.

And you people call us racist??

stage_director

04-21-2007, 07:15 AM

Good one, Terluvire ... I sincerely hope you, any whites or any blacks who don't recognize the racism in Murray's message are just naive, not stupid ... and if you knew anything at all about the "you people" you're talking to, then you'd know how "stupid" what you said is. ;-)
Selah

stage_director

04-21-2007, 07:21 AM

QUOTE
Guess that was a ghost I saw working at the bookstore a few weeks ago.. but she was in the picture I took, so it MUST be someone they paid to "pose" as an employee.
END QUOTE

lol I don't think you know the difference between a visitor browsing the bookstore and an employee.

angie0401

04-21-2007, 08:13 AM

I don't think you know the difference between a visitor browsing the bookstore and an employee.

You mean they let visitors answer the phones and take orders? I'm hurt - they didn't let ME answer the phone! You do realize that is also where the calls come in for orders, right??

OH and BTW - if YOU knew who "you people" are that YOU are talking to you would feel really stupid. Oh, but I probably don't know the difference between the races, right? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

smyrna

04-21-2007, 12:45 PM

Angie, Ter,

Looks like we have Stage Director struggling with the facts we have presented about the TRUE Shepherd's Chapel, as opposed to the false SC that the detractors have constructed for themselves.

She now is so desparate, that she is wallowiong in absurdity.

So according to Stage Director, without ANY evidence to back herself up, she claims that:

"Get real ... you'll never find a black employee at Shepherd's Chapel or in the "inner circle."

Smyrna: However, then she claims that there are, but they must just be "fooled", or just "browsing" the bookstore.

S_D then makes this statement: "Shepherd's Chapel is a money making organization and Murray keeps it politically correct..."

Smyrna: Well, it's now nice to know that when Murray gets a little testy during his teaching, it is now PC to call people idiots, and stupid, and all the other adjectives reserved for people who teach the rapture and other nonsense.

S_D now claims to know exactly who the non-white person was in the bookstore, even though Angie was there, and she was not:

"lol I don't think you know the difference between a visitor browsing the bookstore and an employee."

Smyrna: This is obviously an example of her struggling with the TRUTH, refusing it, even to the point of foolishness.

Finally, S_D is apparently going to spend another day wasting her time, as she joins the other detractors in refusing to take all their "evidence to the major media, NAACP, ADL,JDL,Al Sharpton, Jessee Jackson, etc.

I guess they are not really the people they say they are, either.

david_munson

04-21-2007, 03:22 PM

Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson?
Yeah ,we just love the wolves that wear sheeps clothing.

It is more prevalent for ex members or family members to make reports to the media in an attempt to rescue their family member from the "cult" that they may be in.
It is less likely that outsiders that have no connection to the org. would report anything to the media.

What you ask is not reasonable or common.

Al Sharpton?
Now there's a bigot for ya.

}

terluvire

04-21-2007, 04:25 PM

What I find amazing is that we NEVER said those outside of the white race were inferior or of lesser value, but....it does comes from the detractors.

Apparently, in their mind, they must be thinking if one is not of Adam and Eve, then they must be less important and thereby projecting their thoughts as if they are our thoughts.

Why would one need to be of the Adamic people in order to be considered valuable or important?

All peoples are equal in value and importance. God created all the races and said it was VERY GOOD!! As a believer and having faith upon God and His Word, I believe him! No race is better than any other race. Believing that God created all the races exactly as He wanted them, gives all people dignity and grace. Reducing the races to developing through mutant genes, evolution and curses, (as some of you detractors seem to think), takes away their dignity, and that is inexcusable. Now that kind of thinking denigrates the races.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Angie said:
OH and BTW - if YOU knew who "you people" are that YOU are talking to you would feel really stupid. Oh, but I probably don't know the difference between the races, right?

That's right Angie!! They have no idea who they are talking to.

oneway

04-21-2007, 04:48 PM

Here's what I conclude. The scers in here do not appear to be racists, but some of their teachings, such as the ss, embrace racists. So can one, not be racist and at the same time believe in doctrines that clearly indicate racism towards others? Obviously so. If I were to believe these doctrines, such as the ss, it would not make me racist, because I have no racism in my
soul, it would just make me one who has misenterpreted the scriptures. There is not one of us who is not guilty of misenterpreting scriptures, whether by our own interpretations or by those provided by others. Anyone who thinks that they are error free in their interpretations of scriptures are only lying to themselves. With this in mind, we have a right to disagree and debate, but do we have a right to judge? I know I have judged others by what they believe, but do I really have that right, since some of what I believe might not all be correct? I've decided to take a closer look at myself, and yes I'm still good looking but that's beside the point http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif, I'm talking about on the inside.

(Message edited by oneway on April 21, 2007)

stage_director

04-21-2007, 06:28 PM

Oneway, Murray teaches a separation of the races in the hereafter. He teaches that "the kings of the nations" are the elect from among the ethnic people of the world, and that they're to minister to their own kind because their destiny is different from that of "Adamic" caucasians. If these Shepherd's Chapel members posting here don't believe that ... then they don't agree with Murray, and they acknowledge that he's wrong.

smyrna

04-21-2007, 06:56 PM

It's is amazing, well perhaps not really that Stage Director still has to stretch real hard and put forth more absurd insinuations to try and discredit SC teachings.

Apparently she cannot, or will not, separate the difference between the flesh and the spirit. For if she did, she would find that Pastor Murray could not possibly teach that we are separated by race in the hereafter.

That is absurd, and I'm the Chapel student, not her. Angie is the Chapel student, not S_D. Ter is the Chapel, student, not S-D.

So why is anyone listening to S_D, when she is not a student?

Good thing she isn't, because she would immediately get a failing grade for not paying attention, and getting eveything that she claims to have been taught wrong.

She wrote: "He teaches that "the kings of the nations" are the elect from among the ethnic people of the world"

YES the ethnic people of the world is an ALL INCLUSIVE term. That means, Stage Director, from ALL people all nations, no one is excluded, as Ter has already tried to show you, through her quoting Galations 3:28-29.

Now if you are that dense that you missed it, you have another crack at it.

(Message edited by smyrna on April 21, 2007)

smyrna

04-21-2007, 07:16 PM

Dave wrote:Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson?
Yeah ,we just love the wolves that wear sheeps clothing.

Smyrna: Whatever you think about them, those two guys do defend their race big time, and thus would be very valuable to the detractors, because even where there is no racism, they somehow manage to "find" it.

DM: "It is more prevalent for ex-members or family members to make reports to the media in an attempt to rescue their family member from the "cult" that they may be in."

Smyrna: I agree, and since no one has recorded anything like that in the twenty or more years of the SC's existence, I guess that helps us make our case.

Before Godchild brings forth her heavily edited quotes of "ANN", whose mother was an SC student, and she ranted and raved how she "lost" her mother, it was actually the other way around.

Ann was intolerant of her mother's religious beliefs, and to me that is no excuse to alienate yourself from your own mother.

My grandmother was a Baptist, my mother was an agnostic, I coverted to Catholicism,and started studying with the SC as well, and we all got along just fine!

Bottom line: Ann was the whack job, not her mother, especially because she bought into the ridiculous accusations of the detractors, who must also share the blame for helping Ann alienate herself from her mother.

Dave also wrote: "What you ask is not reasonable or common."

Smyrna: I agree, for two reasons. One is that not many share the extremist views of the detractors towards the SC.

Two, it is because even the detractors must realize that it is they that are placing the slant on Chapel teachings, using guilt by association and other tactics, and it wouldn't fly, even with Al Sharpton.

Which brings me to my final point:

DM: "Al Sharpton?
Now there's a bigot for ya."

Smyrna: Perfect! Then you would think the detractors would be falling all over themselves to get in touch with him!

Surely he, more than anyone else, would glom onto all the "evidence" of the detractors!

Have a great day, Dave!

watchman_2

04-21-2007, 09:49 PM

oneway,

You wrote,

So can one, not be racist and at the same time believe in doctrines that clearly indicate racism towards others?

What is racist about the serpent seed doctrine?

What is racist about the doctrine that God created mankind [all of the races] and it was very good?

Your thought process is completely reversed from where it should be. If a policy/doctrine is racist, then those that support such policy/doctrine are racists.

For instance, there was a time that our black brothers and sisters were required to sit in the back of the bus in this nation. According to your logic, those that agree and support such policy can also claim that they are not racists.

That's absurd.

Your post infers that God is a racist as well.

smyrna

04-22-2007, 12:43 AM

Watchman,

Very good points. God would have to be a racist in the eyes of the detractors.

Or, in the very least, cultures that have kept themselves separate from each other for thousands of years, must be racists, in the "logic" of the detractors.

The only other alternative the detractors have is the "Franklinite" version, the one that onehumanrace.com has, and that is through "genetic mistakes" and a "curse" the races "evolved" or the more proper term, "de-evolved" as Frankie's second favorite website
also states that ancient man was more intelligent that modern man.

oneway

04-22-2007, 03:08 AM

you stated: "Very good points. God would have to be a racist in
the eyes of the detractors."

You're leaving out one major detail in your assumptions. The ss
doctrine is not biblical nor truth when it implies that satan
had sex with Eve and bare Cain. So you see, none of us
detractors are calling God racist, that is totally absurd. God
created Adam and Eve on the 6th day. Why would God be racist
against his own creation?

Here's something else for you all to consider. Don't you think
if there were hybrids roaming the earth now, that they would
possess special powers beyond that of just plain mortal humans?
I myself haven't witnessed any humans who also might be part
hybrids leaping upon 100 story buildings in a single bound, or
picking up huge objects such as semi trucks and tossing them
with one hand several blocks away in a fit of rage, or zapping
people with fire from their fingertips. Nope, I haven't noticed
anything unusual like that. One would think that if there were
hybrids around, we would be noticing stuff like this by now.
How can someone be half human and half hybrid, and not possess
some type of super human powers? I'll tell you why. Because
there aint no such thing. So what does this tell us? Either I'm
whacked out because I don't notice these hybrids, or you're all whacked out that think hybrids are roaming this earth in human bodies. Since it's plainly clear that I'm obviously not whacked out, this only leaves one other conclusion.
Truth allows us to live in reality. The day you scers can learn to distinguish spirit from literal, will be the day when you can join the rest of us normal people back in reality.

smyrna

04-22-2007, 01:59 PM

Oneway wrote:,
"So you see, none of us
detractors are calling God racist, that is totally absurd."

It is Oneway that conveniently left out one important part of my comments:

"Or, in the very least, cultures that have kept themselves separate from each other for thousands of years, must be racists, in the "logic" of the detractors."

As for Oneway's comment about the kenites, who he is referring to, being modern day supermen,he injects his own speculation as to what powers they should have, and then condemns his very own speculations.

Jesus in His explanation of the Parable of the wheat and tares, and taught through that symbolism how difficult it would be to detect the wheat for the tares, i.e. the children of satan and the children that Adam sired.

This certainly does not point to Oneway's speculation at all.

Rather, it points to the fact that stealth, rather than pretentious displays of supernatural power, was the norm for the Kenites.

If Oneway knew the Bible, he would not have come up with such a ridiculous argument.

Ezra 2:59 I believe is one place where we read that the Nethinims,(who apprently were Kenites) were challenged to show their genealogy, that they were of the house of Israal. Now why would they be asked to do this, if their genaology were not suspect?

Oneway or others I am sure will want to put a spin on that, so let's go to the very well known parts of Rev, 2 and 3, where we read of those who claim they are Jews, but do lie, and are of the synagogue of satan.

The Fallen Angels of course would be those who would unmistakably be able to, if they so desired, show great supernatural power, as we have seen in ancient times. And we will see again when anti-christ appears.

stage_director

04-22-2007, 07:42 PM

lol Murray's church is not close to half white, but the fact there's a small number of blacks goes to show very charismatic cult leaders can mesmerize just about anybody. Once again ... there's no black person on the payroll of Soldiers of the Cross aka Church of Jesus Christ Christian aka Shepherd's Chapel, and there's never been.

What does Murray say about bi-racial people? Aren't these mamzers and can't sit among the congregation for ten generations? Doesn't he teach "kind after kind" only "because God doesn't like anyone changing his creation" ... as if blacks or orientals are some other "kind" of species of human. Doesn't he teach Adam, the "father of SOME caucasians" was formed ... while blacks and orientals came from ancestors created in the same way as animals and on the same day? Adam was created on the 8th day, Murray says ... not with the other races or even the non-Adamic whites.

Really now ... if you all aren't up on the doctrines your church teaches perhaps you should ask Tim Lichtner, or Roger C, or Steve Barzak or Nick Goggin these questions. Ah, but you won't ... you're afraid of what you might hear.

(Message edited by stage_director on April 22, 2007)

smyrna

04-22-2007, 08:32 PM

Stage Director is apparently still ignorant of the personal testimonies of people intimately connected with the SC.

However, the people who gave those testimonies are avowed racists that left the SC because they were fed up with his ANTI-racist views.

So Stage Director's credibility is in serious doubt,(and has been) because she ignores the facts.

Then she asks what Murray thinks about mamzers.

Well, if you take the word of one of those people who are p'd off at the SC for letting those "mazers" (the Hebrew word for mixed race people) sit in the Church... well, let's read their own words:

Quote:
"Arnold Murray obviously does not feel obligated in the prohibition of letting the*** mamzer ***enter his congregation or adopting the stangers into the elect of God.

So sorry, S-D, you are wrong once again.

I've heard every silly, sick accusation about the SC coming from slimeballs like you. You think you are unique. You are not.

Also, you can't play that fear game with me. I don't have to ask any of those people I've never heard of.

However, you, and your CB allies, still need to confront your own accusations, if you still believe you have a case that ties Murray to racist and anti-semitic organizations.

But who will the NAACP and the JDL believe?

You, Franklin or Godchild, or a bunch of MEMBERS of those same anti-semitic and racist organizations, who are very mad at Murray for being ANTI-racist, and against anti-semitism?

Yesterday, you were saying:

"Murray is greatly admired among CI groups because they feel he got over ... that he was smart enough to make his preaching "politically correct" enough to be tolerated by many people who'd otherwise shun racism."

Well, that's not what is reflected by the comments that are on the Stormfront site, as you can read at the RAVE REVIEWS FOR AM/SC FROM NEO-NAZI thread.

Ah, victory is sweet. Too bad you can't get a taste, Stage Director.

Exit, Stage Left! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

PS- And readers, please note how the amateurish Stage Director doesn't have any comments about the prior posts which have also showed she was wrong. That is typical of detractors. They just accuse and go their merry, foolish way.

terluvire

04-22-2007, 09:05 PM

Oops, I posted this on the wrong thread. I meant to post it here.: http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

SD must be a dancer for she does the twist very well. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

*Come on let's twist truth again like we do at CB
Come on let's twist truth again for all to see
Do you remember when twisting truth time was coming
Come on let's twist truth again, for all to believe

So round and round and up and down, and low again
Oh Cbers let know, you love lies now and then
Come on let's twist truth again like we do at CB
Come on let's twist truth again for all to see*

(sung to the melody of "let's twist again")

skooter942000

04-22-2007, 09:52 PM

Amazing all of the HOURS SC is on AIR,
- not one lesson teaches HATE.

If they did teach hate, you know who would
be after them.....

(A.C.L. -U- know who)

The CBERS have not the LOVE of CHRIST within themselves.

For if they did , (They would post differently here)...

The only HATE i see here ,
- (Is from the "I HATE SC CROWD_").
- (sandbox and all)

Back to your little cult, (at cult-busters)
The one where you pick and choose who is allowed
to JOIN ....(Sounds cultish to me)


Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,
Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying,
I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

......Saying i too am a fellow believer ,
- (And shall try to deceive many).

 - so don't let them!!!
- mark them in your mind (Rom 16:17/Phil 3:17

smyrna

04-22-2007, 10:10 PM

Ter,

Great song!

You are a much better songwriter than a certain cyber-astronaut we know! LOL!

SKOOTER: You got it right on the head again. Great post.

But watch for all the sneaky spin tactics the detractors will try in an effort to save face, which has been a lost cause for some time now.

Of course, the good old disappearing act looks like their tactic of choice right now.

arron

04-23-2007, 02:50 PM

symerna ok.. then i meat YOU.. NOT THEY also who said you were the product of a tree? scripture verse please if possible and who and where it was said.

david_munson

04-23-2007, 02:57 PM

Marking people that had disagreements was one of the cultish behaviours that leadership of the church I once was a member of engaged in.

It is a wicked thing to do when done in the manner you have suggested and it is out of context to biblical directives dealing with unrepentant individuals which thing is not your intent.

As a member of CB and other sites,I think you generalise way too much to suite even your own purposes.

You are generalising in that your statement includes me and to that I say that you are way off the mark.

With your statement Scooter,you assert that I teach "hate" and you know that is not the truth.

You trash-mouth a whole site because of your bias against a few individuals with which you disagree.
Such a biased broadbrush approach must be summarily dismissed out of hand because it is not an honest assessment.
It is a clouded judgement.

}

smyrna

04-23-2007, 03:00 PM

Hey Arron, you caled me a NUT. A nut is from a tree. Can't you read or understand your own words?

david_munson

04-23-2007, 03:04 PM

Almond joy has nuts
Mounds don't.

LOL
}

smyrna

04-23-2007, 03:05 PM

Dave,

As a member of CB, I would hope you admonished them of doing what you say Skooter is doing.

Because it is clear they have spent a very large number of posts doing just that aginst the SC.

And "generalizing" on the part of CB in their approach to us, would be a huge understatement, especially in light of the recent sucessful refutation of charges of racism on the part of the SC, as you have seen.

david_munson

04-23-2007, 03:09 PM

Which shows ,Smyrna, that it serves "no one" any good to do so.

OUI?
}

arron

04-23-2007, 03:49 PM

a nut used in the terms that i used it is not a nut from a tree but a goofy person

arron

04-23-2007, 03:52 PM

oh and by the way... i am a child of GOD and i am here on this tread too. i am saved by THE BLOOD BY FAITH IN THAT BLOOD.

smyrna

04-23-2007, 03:53 PM

Dave,
No, not Oui?

Because I'd be interested in knowing if you sent the same message to our CB friends. Because it looks here as if you are targeting just the SC folks.

Now I have seen enough of the CB boards to know that if you criticize them directly, they will jump on you in no time.

I also find it amusing as well as telling, that they hid the SC threads there, so they can do just what you are criticizing Skooter for.

smyrna

04-23-2007, 03:59 PM

Arron wrote;

"a nut used in the terms that i used it is not a nut from a tree but a goofy person"

Smyrna: Thank for the news flash. But don't you CB people have issues with using the figurative
sense?

Also Arron, have you obtained enough guts yet, to challenge "illogical_al" and his statements that satan does not exist, and that Moses did not write the Torah, as you saw on the Let's Talk About Satan thread at Cultbusters?

And if you did not, which I know you have not, then why not?

Do you agree with him?

Why don't you just tell us if you agree with him? We'll make sure he gets the message.

david_munson

04-23-2007, 11:50 PM

Smyrna,
it might behoove you to read what I wrote and try to understand it.

Here it is again.
It is extremely "simple".

Take your name out of the statement if you think it is directed towards you.It is directed towards a pattern of behaviour that applies to "all of us".

"Which shows that it serves "no one" any good to do so."

See?

}

david_munson

04-23-2007, 11:51 PM

Smyrna,
it might behove you to read what I wrote and try to understand it.

Here it is again.
It is extremely "simple".

Take your name out of the statement if you think it is directed towards you.It is directed towards a pattern of behaviour that applies to "all of us".

"Which shows that it serves "no one" any good to do so."

See?

}

david_munson

04-23-2007, 11:58 PM

Scooter chose to lump sum me and I wonder why you think it is up to you to have any say to my responce about it since I have directly taken it up with Scooter.

It is between Scooter and I to resolve this without anyone inetrjecting a misdirection.

Leave it alone please.

}

neginoth

04-25-2007, 11:50 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:

Q: What kind of pastor need to carry a 9mm in his briefcase?

A: One who knows he's done so much dirt the Lord might not protect him.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

That's idiotic.

There is a difference between making peace, and being a pacifist. Christ was not a pacifist.

smyrna

04-26-2007, 01:55 AM

Stage Director does NOT know what she is talking about:

Q. What is Solidiers of the Cross?

A. A generic term associated with Christians, for centuries. S_D defines it here as a racist organization, so that she can try and use a guilt by association scheme.

However, it has been shown that avowed racists, who freely admit their racist views, do not recognize the SC as a racist Church.
So she is now bearing false witness, because she knows about those quotes that were posted,and their source. Very dishonest.

Q. What kinds of rural US churches are known for having no windows?

A: If she is talking about the SC, the Church building used to be the town of Gravette's
skating rink.
Therefore the buidling was converted as is, and therefore their was no predetermination to either remove or add windows, to fit the description of whatever Church she is talking about.

Stage Director is really going off the deep end here. I almost feel like I'm addressing to Godchild!

Q: What kind of preacher "picks up" his girlfriend in Nashville in a $4,000,000 jet his congregation paid for?

A: Stage Director, you need to provide documentation that the congregation paid for that plane. It is NOT a jet, number one. And it was donated by ONE person, and that person also pays the maintenance.

And Loretta Lynn is a STUDENT and close friend of Murray's which is who you are talking about, but you need to provide the source of your information, because you detractors are proven gosspiers and rumo mongers.

Futhermore, what Church do YOU belong to? Are you ever going to let us know? What denomination?
And have you scrutinized that denomination and its leaders with the same zeal to find or apply negative views to it?

Q: What kind of pastor needs to carry a 9mm in his briefcase?

A: A pastor of a global minsirty who has nutcases like you making inflammatory, FALSE accusations, that are so indwelled with hatred and malice, that even after proof is presented that prove those allegations wrong, keeps making the same allegations.

You are as sick and vile as Franklin and Godchild.

The gun incident has been debated here already, and we stated our position. And if you don't like it, too damm bad.
Live with it, go and whine all over the Internet, but you have a stupid and silly view of life, a pie in the sky dreamland.

Plus, you know nothing about the Bible, absolutely nothing. For if you did, you would have the answer to your ridiculous insinuations.

smyrna

04-26-2007, 01:34 PM

I asked for documentation. That is not documentation.

Where did you get this information? How can it be verified? Please provide the source where you obtained the story about Pastor Murray picking up Loretta Lynn in the plane, as well as the claim he has five airplanes, all belonging to the Chapel.

Also, please provide proof that any aircraft that is used by the Chapel was purchased, and not donated by members.

You also have not answered my questions as to what denomination you belong to, who are the leaders, and have you scrutininzed that denomination in the same way you are scrutinizing the SC, and if not, why not?

watchman_2

04-26-2007, 04:08 PM

Typical critic allegations by stage_director. She cannot defeat the message [God's Truth]. So, she attacks the messenger with undocumented and unsubstantiated claims of impropriety.

Where's the proof?

angie0401

04-26-2007, 04:18 PM

I spoke to several jet dealers about the type and model

Even if any of this was true, this is either a lie or just weird. Who calls a "jet dealer" for something like this? I would think if someone knew enough to have this "revealing, secret info", they would also have the "inside info" on how much it costs.

rachelengland

04-26-2007, 08:38 PM

Thank you for that information Smyrna-I am sure I would have liked her-Anna was my grandmothers name. And there is nothing wrong with finding comfort and friendship after you have been widowed- it really is no one business.

On the detractor's side, it is just another opportunity to fabricate accusations.
It is sad, but true.(smyrna)

I have not seen anyone here speak of their relationship...

dodge

04-27-2007, 08:05 AM

“stage_director” – I am impressed with your research. Thanks for the Federal Aviation Administration website that describes the private plane that the Shepherd’s Chapel owns. I don’t know what that proves though, other than there seems to be a lot of money in the inner circle. That article that talks about Loretta Lynn and Arnold Murray…all it says on the bottom is “Examiner May 1, 2006.” Which “Examiner” is it, what city? Neginoth is right that if it’s a supermarket tabloid, it really isn’t a credible source for information. Nice job of finding it though.

I mentioned somewhere else that I had written to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, asking them if Arnold Murray and the Shepherd’s Chapel is on their radar as being anti-Semitic or racist. I have evidence that Kenneth Goff, the man who headed Shepherd’s Chapel’s parent organization, Soldiers of the Cross, and signed Murray’s ordination papers, and a close friend of Murray, was hounded by the ADL until the year of his death in 1972 for his antisemitic activity. No response from them yet; but if I get anything I will post it, one way or another.

It’s interesting what you posted about the Soldiers of the Cross Bible Institute, its connection with Kenneth Goff and Pastor Thom Robb, who is the KKK’s national director. They are all tied in somehow, and I find it all very suspicious and find it interesting that these Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd’s Chapel Church members are blind to these things, some saying that they never heard of the Soldiers of the Cross or Kenneth Goff before.

Your mentioning of Murray’s teaching about the kings and queens of the ethnos, the separation of the races in the hereafter is interesting. The fact that it says that the elect from among the ethnic people of the world will minister to their own kind, because their destiny is different from that of the “Adamic Caucasians” seems to be an important point…though I don’t know the context. I have more research to do on the term “kings and queens of the ethnos,” and “mamzers” (bastards, half-breeds).

As I’ve said before…I didn’t come here as a critic, and was open-minded to the ideas of Arnold Murray; but after reading these threads I was left with an uneasy feeling of subterfuge emanating from these ShepChaps. There is something underneath it all that stinks, something that they’re concealing or perhaps are not willing to confront as indoctrinated members of a cult.

abiyah

04-27-2007, 10:37 PM

Stage... you are late in coming to this table. LOL ! The subjects you bring forth here have already been discussed and squashed. Perhaps you should go back and read all the threads, and maybe then you could try and start them back up again... yet still we've ALREADY discussed it all and at every angle. LOL ! And to think Stage... all that time you wasted play acting at The Fig Tree Cafe', when all the while you could have been here discussing all the things we were discussing at that time. Ahhh you missed it ! LOL ! You crack me up though ! " )

Okay.. gotta run.. will see you all next week, I still have allot of work to get done up here this afternoon... man where does the time go? " )

Abiyah

dodge

04-28-2007, 01:33 AM

Stage Director -- I'm looking forward to your future posts based on your collection of documents and audios. It should be fun. I'm off for the weekend to my little retreat in the woods. Talk with you later. Have a great weekend all.

stage_director

04-29-2007, 10:45 AM

What do you do ... go search for old posts to pick apart? I agree, you ought to leave the man's deceased mother out of it.

franklin

04-29-2007, 10:57 AM

Read the whole forum for yourselves factnet readers. You will see that as usual smearna is LYING!

http://www.cultbusters.com.au/index.php?topic=293.0

franklin

04-29-2007, 06:37 PM

That is such a non issue and so boring like you! al and gc discussed the different writings about satan in the Old Testament and many people's thoughts about him. I saw no heresy there in discussing their and other people's perception of satan.

But i see tons of heresy in the non Christian beliefs of arnie and Shepherd's Chapel.

You are desperate for a red herring because you know the heresy of arnie and you racist nazi cult is indefensible.

All humans descended from Adam and Eve like the Bible says they did.

And all Adam is the father of Cain.

Now change your beliefs to those simple and true doctrines of Christianity and then you will be on the road to recovery of your soul and standing with God.

If not you remain a heretic and perverter of God;s word and a racist and anti semite.

That is exactly why you are always diverting the subject matter and on a horrendously nasty personal attack because you do not want to confront the horror that is your life.

Your separation from God and God's creation, humanity.

neginoth

04-30-2007, 12:41 AM

I am a heretic only to you, Captain Crunch.

angie0401

04-30-2007, 01:20 AM

FRANKLIN!
Stop asking about my undies - that's rude!
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

Now, please answer my questions:

Which translation must I read and believe every word of? NIV, NASB, NRSV, NKJ, KJV, The Message????

What do you think of practicing homosexuals being allowed to be pastors/preachers/leaders?

What does the Bible say about this behavior?

What did Christ say was required to be a Christian? Was there anyplace AT ALL where He said we must interpret all Scripture the same? Anywhere?

STOP trying to be God. YOU aren't the heart-knower. YOU are adding conditions to salvation that were NEVER there.

Blasphemer! Heretic! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

arron

04-30-2007, 02:51 PM

now i heard this my self.. no mistake and no changeing of words either...
murray answerded a question this morn.
the man asked if we were created in GOD image why didt he say so(murray)
murrays repeply wwas we were NOT created in GODS IMAGE but in the image of the angels who HE (OD) was talking to. but now the very next verse says IN THE IMAGE OF GOD CREATED HE them. murraqy is again found to be a mixed up man

ezekiel_37

04-30-2007, 07:47 PM

SD said;

YHVH thy Elohiym ... By the reasoning of Shepherd's Chapel doctrine YHVH is thy "God and the angels." That's very wrong.

Your understanding is flawed Stage_Director.

God was not known as YHVH when Gen 1:26 or 27 happened. Infact, El and its suffixes are a very general term for God, not specific and can also mean God and his angels. It is a plural term.

Not until much later was He known as YHVH.

So, YHVH is our God, our Covanent God.

If you study the context of the passages when Elohim is mentioned you will notice that not all can be referencing YHVH. Angels are the only other possibility. So, make your own mind up, but do so after you have reviewed the facts.

in His service
c

ezekiel_37

04-30-2007, 10:50 PM

SD said,

I've looked at the facts over and over again. They say angels are the created ... not the Creator.

ya, and???????

yaakov2

05-01-2007, 06:33 PM

lutheratx

I will still keep a watchful eye on brother Judah however Yaakov taught me a valuable lesson, the Jewish faith teaches everybody goes to heaven no matter what. You claim we always say the Talmud is inspired by satan, Ill tell you what I know for sure any religion that so open you dont have to believe in JHVH is too open.

Your way of thinking is totally foreign to me. You take G-d’s words of tolerance as being a bad thing. Why do you believe that an exclusionary attitude is a good thing? Aren’t we all G-d’s children? Why are you so fixated on believing that you are superior to everyone else?

This is just for gaining one world peace, or for some goal of achieving a dominance over the huddled masses it is not of God.

G-d prophesized that all humans will experience peace. Why do you regard worldwide peace as a bad thing?

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled?

Yes. When someone changes G-d’s word from peace to war, we know they are false prophets. Why do you go against G-d to worship some being that promises war?