CBbs illogical_Al ObserverBotches Satan Study

[smyrna]

I have read some really preposterous stuff at CB, but this one is a stand out.

I suggest that anyone who wants to participate in this discussion go to cultbusters.com.au and read the Let's Talk About Satan thread.

It is really more hypocrisy, from a group that claims they get all their understanding straight from the Bible, but then quote websites with wacky and not so wacky theories.

According to ilLogical_Al's sources, (is he "Observer", over here?) satan is merely a concept.

But Illogical_Al really goes off the deep end with this comment:"Satan appears as an Angel is easily explained as the force appears as an angel at gods will and under the control of god. He is used "as an attorney of God"


Now satan is God's lawyer, according to "Observer/Illogical_Al"!

And guess what? Godchild/Vivian Hadden posted that she agrees with that!

We "evil SCers" should get a lot of mileage out of this!

I wonder how much satan charges God for his legal advice?
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[godchild]

<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">LANCE KNIGHT, OF KING'S CHAPEL, HAS RENOUNCED HIS PREVIOUS BELIEFS (WHO SCER'S USED TO ADMIRE AND NOW MAKE LITTLE COMMENT ABOUT; THOUGH SOME AT THE FIG TREE SAY THEY MISS HIM):

Kings Chapel in PA. has seen TRUTH- Praise The Lord for His mercy !
Below is from their web sight- www.kingschapel.org- (http://www.kingschapel.org-) 2nd paragraph was
copied from this site.

The King's Chapel is no longer fulfilling requests or orders for
tapes, booklets, etc. Therefore, all orders will be returned along
with any accompanying payments or contributions. Additionally, The
King's Chapel is no longer accepting tithes, offerings, or donations.

Lance who operated this site, has been touched by The Lord Jesus
Christ and has seen truth. Operation of Kings Chapel no longer exists.
Kings Chapel taught the same as Shepherds Chapel in AR and in his
message revels that his eyes was blinded, but now does see truth.
</font></font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">LOL Lance Knight also alluded to being Michael the Arch Angel. I heard it with my own ears. lolololol

So what's your point godchild? The guy is a loon. lol</font>

[smyrna]

I guess Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden has nothing better to do than post old news. and "so what" posts.

Lance Knight was just one guy who had a small ministry and website.

Truth is not determined by one person who embraces it and later denounces it. Truth is separate from all that.

Too bad Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden does not see this.

[godchild]

He alluded to being michael the archangel, terlu? Wow, those false doctrines he used to teach really had him messed up, didn't they? You still believe you are an angel, don't you? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[godchild]

terlu, Tell us again the definition for "began", as in "men <u>began</u> to call on the name of the Lord." You said began means PROFANE, didn't you.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
And didn't you at one time tell us you never studied at theseasons (the fig tree), I think your words were "NEVER go there", then turned around after the smoke cleared (from your nostrils, your lie being caught out) and proudly admitted you have and do? You know the Lord does not like liars, now don't you? terlu should mind terlu's business.

(Message edited by godchild on January 16, 2007)

[smyrna]

Notice how the detractors act right out of Frankie's playbook? This thread is about Illogical_al's stupid claim that satan is God's lawyer.

But all she answers with is some old news about Lance Knight, and tired accusations against Ter.

Even IF they are valid issues,the central accusation is dodged.

And that adds up to : No credibility.

And that stuff about Man beginning to profane the Lord? Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden shows her ingnorance, as she has never studied appendix 21 of the Companion Bible:

"Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah." If this refers to Divine worship it is not true: for Abel and Cain both began, and their descendants doubtless followed their example.

What was really begun was the profanation of the Name of Jehovah. They began to call something by the Name of Jehovah. The A. V. suggests "themselves", in the margin. But the majority of the ancient Jewish commentators supply the Ellipsis by the words "their gods"; suggesting that they called the stars and idols their gods, and worshipped them.

The Targum of Onkelos explains it:

"then in his days the sons of men desisted from praying in the Name of the Lord."

The Targum of Jonathan says:

"That was the generation in whose days they began to err, and to make themselves idols, and surnamed their idols by the Name of the Word of the Lord."

Kimchi, Rashi, and other ancient Jewish commentators agree with this. Rashi says:

"Then was there profanation in calling on the Name of the Lord."

Jerome says that this was the opinion of many Jews in his days. Maimonides, in his Commentary on the Mishna (a constituent part of the Talmud), A.D. 1168, in a long treatise on idolatry, gives the most probably account of the origin of idolatry in the days of Enos. The name Enos agrees with this, for his name means frail, weak, sickly, incurable. The sons of men, as "Enosh", are so called for a similar reason (Job 7:17; 15:14. Ps. 9:20; 103:15. Dan. 2:43). See Ap. 14.

If Jonathan, the grandson of Moses, became the first idolatrous priest in Israel (see notes on Judg. 18:30), what wonder that Enos, the grandson of Adam, introduced idolatry among mankind.

Last laugh, once again!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[angie0401]

Vivian,
Who got you all stirred up? Posting hateful little remarks to ter after all the unthinkable LIES you have told - like this one here. Terluvire didn't say that she NEVER goes there. A woman your age should really act better than that.

Angie

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">You're right Angie, I never said I never went there.

godchild, you need to calm yourself down. Seriously, take a break from the internet. You need a long rest.

Man, what got godchild acting so stark raving mad? lol</font>

[smyrna]

Out of meds I guess, ladies. Or maybe she got in a fight with Joseph L. because she spends too much time on the Internet.

Seriously, I think the Fund Drive really set her off. But I can't figure out why. We certainly raised enough money.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[grace2u]

Godchild,

Do you really think satan is God's lawyer? I'm not taking other's at their word about it (no offense to them). I want to verify that with you.

Seems like if he was God's lawyer, he got fired from the job. Oh, he likes to play lawyer and try to place people under the law. That's how I believe the Gnostics and all got confused. Some people could not understand God having more than one nature (i.e. love and mercy vs. judgment) when they themselves have more than one nature.

The law was always there in the Garden. Perhaps I'm overstating it when I refer to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as a type of law. (And I'm not saying it didn't have a physical aspect either.)

But the interesting thing is that God never forbade Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life. He did the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And satan sure likes to stick that fruit in our face, over and over and over again.

My two cents for what it is worth.

[sharon]

smyrna.. you do more to make Pastor Murray look like a fake preacher than anything he could do or say. Are you sure that you are on his side. I wonder.
Cause even if I had never heard of him, after I read these pages I can tell you I would not want to know him, for his followers do not show the love of Christ.
Kind of like what Ghandi said, I love Jesus Christ but I do not really care for his followers as they are nothing like him. Think on that when you are writing messages.
Your followers attack anything you attack, so you must remember that they are your responsiblity and you must make sure that you are a good example of Christ. You do not have to change your opinions just your way of expressing them. You see if I say something no church or preacher nor followers are effected, but if you say something well others are and do look to you to be an example of Christ for that is what puts Christ in Christian.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
1 Corinthians 12:26-27 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
---
Every member is effected by the actions of every other member.
My whole body reacts when I stub my toe because my whole body is interconnected.
So it is with the Body of Christ.

My attitude reflects upon every other member of Christ.My responcibilty to Christ and the body is serious.
Ever hear,"christians are all hypocrits?"
This is a result of other christians behaving in such a manner as to bring dishonor to Christ and the body.All are effected.
IMHO,
Dave
</font>}

[xman3]

I merely read this thread, but I will jump in anyway. I occasionally watch A. Murray on tv because I like some of what he says and because he's the only one on doing any teaching or preaching at that time. I find some stuff good (doesn't ask for money, enjoyable questions and answers, etc...) and some stuff not so good(example-satan hiding in a vehicle in the clouds).

I'm no expert at all on this group so I won't pass any judgement, but I must say this arguing is highly entertaining. So much name calling and back and forth accusations. I don't see much Christ in that, but it's better than a boxing match. I'm no perfect example of Christ so don't get me wrong, but come on. You are doing yourselves and this ministry a disservice i think. Relax a little. But then, it won't be as entertaining I suppose. God bless you all.

xman

[smyrna]

Sharon,

Let me make this clear: I have no "followers". We stand up on our own and can hold our own. We only follow Christ, and once again He was pretty rough on His critics, so when we are rough on ours, we are still following His example.

Secondly, one phenomenon associated with Frankie's DECLARED followers (they say it's a game, but we know what it really is*)who absolutely refuse to admit their man has done anything wrong or unjustifiable.

Vile language, clear cases of hypocrisy, lies, and examples of ignorance,are all allowed to slip under their radar, which claims to detect any of those actions affected by "SCers", even when it is clear they are just false accusations.

Sharon: "Cause even if I had never heard of him,(Murray) after I read these pages I can tell you I would not want to know him, for his followers do not show the love of Christ."

Smyrna: That's too bad, for that only speaks to your ignorance not only of Scripture, but of early Church history as well.

Place your self in Jesus' time, for example. Jesus, a son of a carpenter, for that is all the people knew of him, travels the countryside speaking out against the religious establishment.
He confronts the religious leaders (and since He was of the Jewish people, they were perceived to be His leaders)of His day, and calls them every name in the book:

http://christianparty.net/pharisees.htm

Based upon your post, I'll have to assume such similarities between how Frankie and his gang treat the SC and Pastor Murray, you would be saying that you would not want to know Jesus.

It's obvious that the Apostles, though they came to the people in a loving spirit, were attacked from the get go, and most, if not all of them, were tortured and martyred, if you accept the extra-Biblical accounts of those whose end are not covered in Scripture.

You must remember that ALL of us SC folks came here on the DEFENSIVE, not the other way around. That Factnet is supposed to be some place to fight cults is no excuse, to begin a dialogue with such thread titles as "Cult Leader Arnold Murray is a racist, worse than the kkk." or "THE INSANE LIES THAT ARNOLD MURRAY TEACHES"

Within those threads, whatever you have to say about SC teachings, so much of it was misrepresentations, outright lies, false accusations and stupid, ridiculous assumptions that were treated as truth.

You are blindly biased, this is clear, because Sharon, you are one of those who refuse to acknowledge that those on your side, and it's obvious you have taken sides, are not guilty of the slightest indiscretions.

Therefore, I will stop here, because unless you acknowledge that CBers are quite guilty of many things, then I'm simply wasting my time.

* Their so-called game is a thinly veiled attempt for their Biblically illiterate leader, and a loosely knit small band of followers, who think they actually have what it takes to rescue people from true cults. Sadly, they can't even tell what is a real cult from that which is not

[xman3]

OK smyrna. What about someone like myself. I have no church affilliation and no preconceived opinion of SC or Murray. I just watch him sometimes, and subsequently noticed this thread. I could pull a hundred nasty names and accusations out of different threads I've read that in no way reflect anything Jesus said. Furthermore, just because you judge someone as like a pharisee doesn't mean they are. Even if one twisted Jesus" words towards the religious people to apply to people here, His judgement was righteous and accurate, as evidenced by his own words.

All I'm saying is that it casts a bad light on this ministry when i see this stuff. I don't think the mere fact that SC is on factnet means anything in and of itself, as just about every ministry in the world is indicted here for one reason or another, and I just don't think every one is a cult. What about those who might be interested in being a part that don't put you on the defensive.

You words and others are also there for them to see, and it ain't pretty. 3 people mentioned the same thing, so perhaps its at least worth considering. This stuff is pretty controversial afterall, so I guess it would stir things up a bit. Anyway, its not my buisness for the most part, but having seen AM I wonder about the ministry, and this is the picture I'm getting.

I have no idea who you are, sharon, or david munson so I'm no ones shill. 3 witnesses is reason to at least consider this point. Those thread titles are pretty baiting though, but that's the dilemna of factnet and an opportunity to respond as Christ. If you really believe that some of the name calling and stuff is just what Jesus would do, then that's not the Jesus for me, but I really do believe better from the posters here despite that.

xman

[smyrna]

Well put xman. One component,that you are unable to place in context, because you are new to these threads, is the history of the relationship between the SC folks and the loosely knit group of detractors.

There is numerous evidence that for those who come here in good spirits, merely inquiring about the SC, and not as raging lunatics, that have fed themselves all the garbage produced by intolerant, fundamentalist oriented web site publishers, who pass around lies, misrepresentations,and false accusations towards the SC like cake at a party,they have been treated with mutual respect.

But there is a small group of people here, who are playing some fantasy space game, who inhabit a site called cultbusters.com.au who are merely agitators, and have absolutely no intention on having any real dialogue.

They came here on the premise that we (SC folks) are "racist heretics" that must be destroyed (their space game lingo)which, according to them, is a not so nice term for "deprogrammed."

The problem is, their leader is a clearly Biblically illiterate zealot, who didn't even know that the word 'Unicorn' appeared in the Bible version he claimed is his favorite, the KJV.
That's not a small miss, considering it is used at least eight times in five different Books. That's just one example.

Now they are obsessed with basically two teachings of the SC that irritates them. They ignore everything else the SC teaches, which is in line with most denominations.

Our understanding of the events in Eden that are carried forth in what is clearly an allegory, Genesis chapters 1-4.

The second issue is the rapture, whether it is a legitimate teaching, or a late invention by 19th century evangelicals.(our position)

They rarely venture into other areas of Biblical study, and are content with going round and round with their denials and false accusations,asking the same questions over and over, ignoring or condemning the answers.

You may say "Just ignore them" but when we do, they do everything possible to get a rise out of us, hurling more and more outrageous accusations,
until we break down and confront them, because we really don't want the readers to think we have no answer for them.

So perhaps this will help you understand. A careful examination, if you are that interested, of the threads here will bear me out.

[xman3]

I went to CB as an offshoot of some thread I was reading here and found the site useless for my purposes. It may or not have some good stuff, but it wasn't worth my time. I thought the same thing about factnet originally though, so the value over there may lie in something other than my personal interests and I'll leave it alone.

Your point is well taken though, as clearly you and others are goaded continually here. The serpents seed doctrine was supported by William Branham, who I consider a prophet, but not a good teacher. I am interested in that stuff, but at this point don't buy it. The expositions and explanations are pretty good though, so i better understand why you guys adhere to it. My rapture theology is not set in stone, so I enjoy hearing what a large variety of ministers and ministries have to say and take it all in and compare it to my understanding of scripture. I personally don't center too much on end times stuff though, because there's som much controversy by many respected teachers that it becomes difficult to know what to believe.

Most of my time is spent in the MSI/EN thread where I was once a part, but I browse the whole site, and find this thread interesting. I'm not at all trying to start any trouble. Thanks for responding.

xman

[smyrna]

See xman, you are an example of someone who we have no problems interacting with.

We approach our Biblical studies much as you do, but we obviously have a high regard for Pastor Murray. This fact rankles some of our detractors, who so greatly desire boxing us into a cult like mentality.

But if you read the threads here, and I'm sorry that you have to wade through so much of the petty accusations and name calling by both sides,(but it can be entertaining!)you will see that we have a great diversity of sources.

Study tools, such as Strong's Concordance, references from the Early Church Fathers such as Origen, Terullian, Augustine,the Apocryphas, Qumran Scrolls, etc. can be found in places where we found them necessary.

The problem is, most of the detractors, here, have little knowledge of these sources and their importance to Biblical studies. And that fact adds to the outrageousness of their attitudes towards us. How can they set themselves up as some authority when they have such a shallow view of Scripture?

We aren't blind to the facts some SC teachings, as I mentioned before, are quite controversial. But when these folks won't even recognize commonly accepted, highly respected sources that nearly all serious scholars use, they are completely clueless.

From that standpoint, I suppose like you, my participation here is useless. I originally came here to refute the lies and misrepresentations of the the Chapel opponents, not to debate theology.

But it has become a highly entertaining intellectual sport for me. It's not about winning or losing. It really keeps me sharp, and helps me to study, actually.

I am driven to so many sources, studies and topics in my efforts to show how the detractors are wrong in so many places. Yes, they are out gunned, for the most part. They are right at times, even when they don't even know it!

It's similar to a chess match, but against people that never got past checkers. That's like admitting I'm a bully, but hey, if I am, they should just run away. All bullies meet their match,but when I do, it won't be anyone form that ridiculous CB space crew.

If they didn't present themselves as a bunch of kooks, they would have had a chance to appeal to a real theologian, at least one that can mount an intelligible rebuttal.

But their leader (Franklin aka Frankie, "Captain")would never be able to recruit one, since he is a real nutcase. You just have to read these threads to see what I mean.

He's such a Bibilical Maximalist, any theologian would just laugh and walk away if this guy explained what he would want the theologian to defend. In fact, he's so extremist, it's not even fair to maximalists (inerrantists)to identify him with them.

[xman3]

Ok, thanks for the info. I will jump back to the En thread, but certainly keep following here a bit. You're right, it is entertaining at times, and there's a lot of info scattered throughout. It really does sharpen up the intellect and force one to study to answer the detractors, and if you keep on doing it, it is hard to not knock heads. I've knocked mine a few times myself. I might have a few questions down the road when I see you posting at a time when the battle's not raging. Good luck in the fight.

xman

[skooter942000]

- Where is a link.




...satan is merely a concept???



- tell that to him.
- dare you. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif



So the Bible is now made up of lies.
- (Some must think).


CHRIST, when being Tempted,
(Was tempted by........ who)???

- In the book of JOB ,
(Who appeared before the LORD)?

Who was ALMIGHTY GOD speaking too?

- (A make believe entity)?




satan is all about deception.

Making people believe he does
not exist ,(Is one of his biggest deceptions).

satan 1
Observer 0

(*If this is true that is)

Lawfully (Hearsay is just that_)



- godchild (is this true)?

- Did you really agree here?

<font color="ff6000">Anyone choose to "RECANT"?</font>



<font color="0000ff">????????</font>
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif
<font color="0000ff">????????</font>

[smyrna]

Cont'd

Where can we trace all this speculative commentary to?

This: "However, analysis of the Bible as a historical document since the late 19th century has convinced essentially all non-Evangelical Old Testament scholars that most of the Pentateuch was not written by Moses. It is rather made up of a mixture of writings and editing by three individuals or groups: in 950 BCE by "J", 750 BCE for "E" and 539 BCE for "P". Deuteronomy was written in the 7th century BCE, and Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE. In the following material, ***we will assume that the liberal interpretation is correct."***

Frankie, where are you? Your people are out of control! They don't believe Moses wrote the Torah!
Cultists! Heretics! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Smyrna: Anyway, what the commentator does not explain is that the description above is known as the Documentary Hypothesis, of which there are variations.

My point is this: CBers always accuse SC of twisting the Word of God, and going by the teachings of one man.

But here we have wild speculation on the part of CBers, among those is one who doubted the Virgin birth, and another who apparently supports claims that satan is God's henchman or lawyer.

How many more examples of hypocrisy do we need to expose to show that CB has no credibility?
They are a bunch of confused,ignorant fundamentalist oriented zealots who obviously aren't even sure what they are defending.

This is far and away from our own state, which has few deviations and only minor unsolved differences on related issues. Certainly we know that satan is not some force, or lawyer, or literary invention. He isn't a "concept" that evolved over centuries.

I suggest that the CBers stay over at their website, until they get back under the control of their leader, because he is going to be one P'd off guy when he finds out you all are falling away from HIS explanation and interpretation of Scripture.

[skooter942000]

satan is neither the Prosecutor or Defender.

"He is the ACCUSER",
- (that's what his name means).

he is not GOD'S Attorney.
- nor ours.

An Attorney has a side.


satan serves his own needs and desires.
- Which GOD allows, (to test us all).



- his agenda is to DESTROY 'YOU/us'.



Found the page:
http://www.cultbusters.com.au/index.php?topic=293.msg8542#msg8542


Jam 4:7 ¶ Submit yourselves therefore to God.
Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw
nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye]
sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye]
double minded.

Jam 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep:
let your laughter be turned to mourning,
and [your] joy to heaviness.

Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight
of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Jam 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another,
brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his]
brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil
of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou
judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law,
but a judge.

Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able
to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest
another?




Doulos Don <*))><

[skooter942000]

godchilds words:

godchild
Hero Buster

Offline

Posts: 777


Re: Lets Talk about Satan and his origins
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2007, 05:47:45 AM »


http://www.cultbusters.com.au/index.php?topic=293.msg8542#msg8542

Absolutely! The scers say the serpent was only a type of satan. Satan isn't a physical being. How can something that is not physical create a physical half-human being. They would have to say satan entered a physical being to have sex with a physical being (Eve).

_cut_cut_cut_cut_cut (........etc)


Hmmmm

- i know i never said this,
(anyone else say this)?

[smyrna]

Don't pay her any mind Skooter. Her new teacher, illogical_al, is posting some real kooky stuff over there, mixed in with some "higher criticism."

She's going to come out of there more confused than ever!

[godchild]

Let's clear something up. I was a member of cultbusters.com.au from the time of its inception. Franklin came there much later. He does not own nor is he the administrator of that site. He has his section there for those who are interested. There are over 200 members there and perhaps a dozen who post on franklin's area. There are volunteer moderators just as there are here. Franklin is one. smyrna and his buddies can stop alluding to Franklin as our leader. Get your facts straight. He is our brother in Christ. Just a man, like all of us.

I wouldn't call smyrna a "leader" either. He has a couple of women who come here to jump into a defense of him along with a couple of guys. He has his own website homestead.scripturetruth.com, but he can't get anyone to go there. Not much of a "leader", in my opinion. He doesn't accept or post rebuttals to the nonsense he says there, like "stomp pm critics". Wow, how impressive is that? What he does instead is post a picture of a clown and name it whoever doesn't agree with him at other sites. Wow, so intelligent! He named me the clown once. Really hurt my feelings sooo much, and stopped me from witnessing about the false doctrines am/sc teaches; NOT! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

I'd rather get back to the subject I come here for, which is exposing the false doctrines and teachings of am/sc.

Scooter, a prosecutor is an attorney. He "accuses" the defendants. Read Job. Also, don't you have temptations? Don't you sin? Is there a man who lives with you, follows you around, and tells you to worry, to forget about God for the moment, to fear, etc. All of these are the work of satan, my friend. God does not tempt us. We are not to tempt God. These are the works of satan. Do you believe God does not have the power to stop satan? Do you believe that satan has power over God? satan is the temptor. But there is no temptation that cometh to man that God will not provide a way to escape. Or don't you believe this? Are you suggesting that God being good and satan being evil means they are equal? God is the Creator of all things, including satan. Can a creation tell God what to do? They can try, but they will lose, just as satan does. If you give satan that power, you lose too.

[godchild]

I have no doubt that smyrna posted my given name and married name as an act of intimidation. Else, he wouldn't be so careful to hide his, not even brave enough to use it on his own site. No courage there.

I have nothing to hide. What are the reasons for not giving that kind of info. Because of nuts like smyrna who tries to use scare tactics to stop people from having their opinions known. If you note on his post just previous to posting his info (which he got wrong), he said he was "going to get me now", or words to that effect. He is a coward and a liar. His flimsy attempts will always fall flat, and he only shows that being a scer is not something to brag about, let alone be proud of.

Watch, you will see terlu and angie run in to tell him how wonderful he is, and how terrible we all are. Their judgments are only annoying, like a gnat on an elephant's butt, because they have nothing to offer the topics at hand. terlu claims to be part Jew, (why not say part white, or Jew, am teaching that her blood is tainted, anyway?), yet follows rascist doctrines. This shows she hates herself or is desparate to fit in. angie is a baptist scer. smyrna is a catholic scer. It shows their inability to stand for what they believe, because they aren't sure what they believe. Pity them.

If they want to send more money to am to line his pockets in honor of godchild, who believes am is an antichrist, more power to them. He won't care why it lines his pockets, and probably laughs all the way to bank to put it in his corporation account. "A fool and his money are soon parted", and Jesus admonishes us to feed/clothe the poor, visit the sick, but let scer's choose their own way. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.

[angie0401]

Watch, you will see terlu and angie run in to tell him how wonderful he is, and how terrible we all are.
Smyrna, you are SO SO wonderful! I just love all of your posts and how you show how terrible the franklinites/CBers are! They are terrible, terrible people!

It shows their inability to stand for what they believe, because they aren't sure what they believe. Pity them.
It's really sad that some people can't stand it when other people attend a church, (unless it's the CofCB -church of cultbusters). I guess with wonderful teachers like franklin and al, you don't need to attend a church. Or you could always do like Vivian, who believes am is an antichrist, and watch the SDA, couldn't you?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[smyrna]

Godchild/Vivian Hetherhton Hadden:

"I have no doubt that smyrna posted my given name and married name as an act of intimidation."

Start doubting! Your info is on these boards already,really to get used to the fact that you were going to quite going by "Godchild" and using your "real, married name."
It's not my fault you changed your mind. If you want, I'll repost the post where you said you would do that. It has other stuff in it that you haven't lived up to either, and it's been what, two days?

The fact I don't use my real name on my site does have to do with courage, and yes, I am not brave enough. Considering the zealousness of the detractor's and their anything goes mentality, yes, I think it's smart not to reveal personal info.

Remember, it was some detractor nut case that infiltrated the SC studios and had to be physically removed. Who wants that?

Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden also wrote:
"Watch, you will see terlu and angie run in to tell him how wonderful he is, and how terrible we all are."

They know they don't have to do that, I already know.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden rages on: "It shows their inability to stand for what they believe, because they aren't sure what they believe. Pity them."

Smyrna: That's interesting, coming from someone who has doubted the Virgin birth, and is currently agreeing with "Illgical_al's claims that God's "lawyer" is satan, and/or also a henchman that carries out God's "evil instructions."

(See cultbusters.com.au thread Let's Talk About Satan)

Godchild: "If they want to send more money to am to line his pockets in honor of godchild, who believes am is an antichrist, more power to them."

Smyrna: We sure will, and thanks for the inspiration!

Finally, she writes:

"Jesus admonishes us to feed/clothe the poor, visit the sick, but let scer's choose their own way."

I didn't know that Jesus mentioned SCers in the Bible?

Hey Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden, is that the KJV?


Better have the Doc check that dosage, GC/VHH. We don't want to see another tantrum like you had last night. It was scary. Joe L. Must have run out of the house!

[franklin]

Franklin is right here reading you foolishness and laughing my arse off at how cuckoo ludicrous your thinking and beliefs are!

observer is logic_al? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

angie you are not looking at me when you refer to us as terrible people.

You must be looking in a mirror.

When I look at you and your fellow SC "students" I see brownshirts http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif and swastikas.

[watchman_2]

godchild [franklin-lite],

Beside being a liar, misguided, unrepentive, disingenuine, wrong, and a whole host of other insulting truths, you are one of the biggest hypocrites I have ever come across.

Since you don't know scripture and lose every debate, you have done everything in your power to discredit SC/PM by way of linkage to the Companion Bible, the 1611 KJV, his Arkansas location, the books that he sells to the members, other's postings, and now that lunatic at the King's Chapel.

Yet, when a SC fund drive is set up on your behalf, you lose all touch with reality. In addition, you are claiming to not be a franklin follower when you are an active participant over at cultblunders, where franklin has his space cult fantasy.

If guilt by association is good for the goose, it is good for the gander. You are a follower of your beloved cult leader, franklin.

[skooter942000]

- What time is it.

Inside Joke - (Chirp Chirp)





gc / - (Vivian is it)?

Prosecutors explain the FACTS.
And ask questions to the (ACCUSED).

So the TRUTH can come out.


An Example of an Accuser:

- Hence ( a slanderer )



(someone broke into my car).

- YOU DID IT!!!

I didn't see you do it.

But i know it was You!!!
You broke into MY CAR!!!




Now i am taking you to court.

So the prosecutor can bring the evidence to light.

- get it?


What evidence?

- (ah ha)!!!



If you think satan is GOD'S Attorney (fine).


"CHRIST" is MINE. (HE IS MY ADVOCATE/"parakletos")

"HE" is my "intercessor"


one who pleads another's cause before a judge,
a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate

we accuse ourselves by how we act or treat others.

- (For it's in the BOOK) = [REV 20]


satan just stands around and points the FINGER.

- See what JOB did over there!!!

What a fine son you have there ,(GOD).
How proud you must be of this ONE.

- An accuser can also (EGG) somone on.


Explanation: Used in a negative manner when someone encourages someone else in rather poor behavior.



4566. Satan sat-an' of Hebrew origin (7854); Satan, i.e. the devil:--Satan. Compare 4567.

4567. Satanas sat-an-as' of Chaldee origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite affix); the accuser, i.e. the devil:--Satan.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif



Don <*))><

[angie0401]

More "insight" from al:

logic_al
Global Moderator
Sr. Buster

Re: Lets Talk about Satan and his origins
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anything I have posted detracts from the Christian Doctrine or takes away Gods word and the truth of the bible I would be worried and in a twist myself. But being Christian and a true believer in the Holy Bible I have no problems at all believing that the word Satan originates from Hebrew and is best translated as "an adversary". It is not a noun in itself so to me it is a word that depicts a spirit that is using an evil force or is the accuser. God showed us in Job that he used Satan (an adversery) in the form of an angel as his cohert to accuse and test Job so it could be recorded and written for all of us as a lesson in life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
devil. A personification of evil, used in the N.T. to mean Satan*. Luke 4:5; John 8:44; Eph. 4:27; Heb. 2:14.

Satan. In the O.T., the adversary of men, one who challenges the ways of men or brings them to trial; always subject to God, whose servant he is. 1 Chron. 21:1; Job 1:6-12 Zech. 3:1-2.

In Late O.T. times there arose beliefs in Satan as a definite being, chief of all evil spirits, the adversary of God in a struggle between good and evil (this idea came from Persion beliefs.)


WOW - what kind of heresy is this? Saying that Satan is the servant of God, carrying out God's orders and that God uses him to tempt and try us??

[smyrna]

Good post Angie,

Maybe we should drop the term "detractors" when we speak of the CBers, and use the term "Devil's Advocates"

Sharon posted that Frankie is taking "a vacation". He certainly can use one.

But look what happens while he's away! They are acting like the Israelites when Moses left them to climb the mountain.

Next thing you know, they'll be making a golden calf over at CB!

I've never wanted to hear from Frankie before, but I'd really like to know how he reacts to this. Being the good spin merchant he is, I'm sure he'll come up with some lame excuse as to why his flock is taking stroll down Heretic's Lane.

The best part about it, is that two of our pet detractors have joined the party, Arron and Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden.

Oh well, when the Captain's away, the Astronauts will play!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[observer]

I completely agree with everything logic_al says over at the Cultbuster's forum. He has done his research and knows what he's talking about. The truth is that Satan is never mentioned in Genesis, and in the Book of Job he is part of God's council who is given permission to destroy Job's life to test his faith. Most of what Christianity has formulated about Satan, the devil, Lucifer and such came from Christian apologists such as Justin Martyr. What's ironic is that in the New Testement Lucifer is a name given to Christ, representative of the dawn of a new day.

It's not about needing ammo to attack your beliefs, Smyrna; it's about sharing ideas and opinions on Biblical subjects. Just because we don't agree with you, it doesn't mean that we're ganging up on you SC guys. You're beginning to sound like Franklin with his "wolf pack" theory. When someone shares something, people come in and comment, which is what a public forum is all about. Unfortunately for you, there are a lot of people out here who see the ideas of Shepherd's Chapel and Arnold Murray as being a case of projecting way too much into the Bible than is there in order to back up your theories.

As I've said before...as long as you belong to an organization that believes real Jews are white, and when they migrated into Europe they gave birth to the Anglo-Saxon race; and that there is a race of people who are descendants of the Serpent and Eve's progeny called the Kenites who are responsible for all the bad things in the world, and are attempting to take it over to create a New World Order...well, you're going to have critics. I thought you would be used to that by now. Keeps you busy, doesn't it?

[watchman_2]

smyrna wrote,

They need ammo to go against the Chapel. It's not about learning the Bible with them, it's about "defeating" the SC.

Logic_Al is shooting blanks when he writes,

<font color="ff0000">Satan as an entity never existed in the garden of Eden according to Hebrew scriptures
</font>

I suppose that he didn't include the Book of Ezekiel in the Hebrew scriptures. Eze. 31 clearly places Satan [The Assyrian] in the Garden.

[godchild]

Why smyrna, I didn't know you were so interested in my loved ones. Now you've got Joe's attention, putting his name on the internet. He talked to his brother in Port Angeles. He works for L.M.A. down there. As soon as he gets a few days, he's going to look you up. Find out what your interest in our family is.
Joe was raised in the Catholic Church too. He was an alter boy, but he never speaks about religion. It's not his thing. His brother figures you two will have a lot to talk about. How long do you spend on that boat? A cook, huh, on an off-shore oil rig out of LA?

I need to add, Joe and I have been divorced for about three years. He likes to keep his personal business private. He's a really sweet guy til he gets a few beers in him. You know anything about tatoos? He's got a real little one right next to his thumb. It's like a sign of membership, if you know what I mean. It caused him some trouble when he was young, but then he went into the Army; paratrooper overseas. He doesn't like to talk about that much, either. I guess he was stoned a lot of the time. Anything else you want to know, cookie? See ya, wouldn't wanta be ya! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif
You know I'm just funning with you, right? Always fun here at factnet, right?
Vivian Hadden

[angie0401]

He's a really sweet guy til he gets a few beers in him.

I heard the same thing about you, Vivian. Is that your roundabout way of explaining your recent behaviour?
Just funning, of course! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

Wow - you're divorced AGAIN? How many husbands does that make - 5, 6?? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[observer]

There are no passages in the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil or the arch-enemy of God and humanity. Do you deny this? At most, Satan is described as a henchman who carries out God's evil instructions. There is no dualism between two powerful supernatural enemies, an all-good God and an all-evil Satan. God is portrayed as performing, directly and indirectly, both good and evil deeds. He sends plagues, a genocidal flood, and turned a woman into a pillar of salt because she looked the wrong way. It's God who does all this. The writers of the early Hebrew Scriptures looked upon Jehovah as performing both good and evil deeds.

In Job 1 and 2, God conducts an experiment at Job’s expense. He instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has. He causes his animals to be killed along with his workers and his children. Job still doesn’t curse God. So what does God do? He ups the ante and tells Satan to go back to Earth and destroy Job’s health. Satan is a servant of God whose task it is to unquestioningly carry out God’s instructions.

“logic_al” is correct. Because of the influence of Persian dualism, God became wholly good and Satan profoundly evil in the New Testament. Satan was no longer God’s prosecuting attorney, helper and lackey; he and his demons now became humanity’s enemies. From Persian Zoroastrianism, the Jews between 5th and 1st century BCE picked up these ideas about Satan. Paul and the other apostles developed these ideas in their writings, making God and Satan a duality of good and evil. This was carried through to the Book of Revelation, with the concept of a great battle between Satan and God at the end of the world as we know it.

[smyrna]

Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden: wrote:". Now you've got Joe's attention, putting his name on the internet."

Smyrna: Now how on earth could I do that, if I didn't know he even existed until I Googled your name? The blame lies on the:
oregonianextra.blogs.oregonlive.com/uploads/284709-jackson-OR.xls

No matter, I'm looking forward to meeting him, as soon as he looks me up.

She then writes:"He likes to keep his personal business private. He's a really sweet guy til he gets a few beers in him...."

You have revealed way more than I ever have been able in your post. So who really stands guilty of
spreading his personal business on the Internet?

You are silly and ridiculous.

Your threats are also silly and ridiculous.

[observer]

Angie -- you and Smyrna certainly practice the art of ad hominem on a regular basis, almost as much as Scientologists. You know, replying to an argument by criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. You insult and belittle people, as do most of the SC students here. I've read where people who follow Pastor Murray are very often just as rude and condescending as he is. They, like their teacher, regularly call others liars, deceivers, idiots, losers, etc. Murray is full of quick, condescending remarks about anyone who disagrees with him. Unfortunately, it's rubbing off on his followers and this is particularly troublesome considering how he pulled a gun out of his briefcase during a taping in response to a heckler.

And here's Smyrna looking for information about Godchild's family, reminding me of the "fair game" practices of another cult, Scientology. You guys are some of the must unloving, spiteful and mean-spirited people I've ever come across. Well, I guess these are the fruits of your belief system; and tells us all what the results of following Pastor Murray are. You should look it that. Seriously.

[angie0401]

Thanks for the judgments, observer. I'll keep your "friendly advice" in mind. Seriously.

[smyrna]

Of course Observer agrees with illogical_al. He IS illogical_al!

As they say, you are your own best friend.

In any case, now they claims that Paul and the other NT writers developed Satan and God's role. Where has the Word of God gone?

They are saying that Paul and the other writers, invented the NT using Persian and Zoroastrianistic writings.

I think Jesus would have a problem with that explanation.

I guess Jesus must have been a student of Persian dualism, when He confronted the demon who said "MY (singular) name is Legion, for we are many."

I suppose Jesus should have looked into the future to read illogical's_al's explanantion before He told the Apostles the parable of the wheat and the Tares:

4. THE TARES - "The tares are the sons of the wicked one"
a. Those later defined as they that..
1) Offend
2) Practice lawlessness - cf. Mt 13:41
b. Though within the realm of the Lord's reign (for the Lord
will later gather them out of His kingdom), they clearly
are not submitting to the Lord's authority!
c. Their actions reveal that they are really "sons of the
wicked one"!
5. THE ENEMY - "The enemy who sowed them is the devil"
a. Who tried to tempt Christ and failed - cf. Mt 4:1-11
b. Who now tries to destroy the efforts of Christ to save
souls and enlarge the influence of His kingly rule

Source: http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/pa/pa_04.htm

And also I guess He was referring to none of the aforementioned, when he said: Get thee behind me, Satan.

This is what happens when someone who has no methodology, comes in contact with the incredible number of commentaries and ignores the Bible as
a whole work inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Out goes the structures, out goes the continuity.
Out goes common sense and reason, and he never did have any method.

It their place, illogical_al places theory, opinions, his own guesswork and speculations,
and his own cheering section, which includes GC, Arron, and his own invention, "Observer."

[smyrna]

"Observer" cut and pasted this from one of the anti-chapel sites, probably CARM:

"They, like their teacher, regularly call others liars, deceivers, idiots, losers, etc. Murray is full of quick, condescending remarks about anyone who disagrees with him. Unfortunately, it's rubbing off on his followers and this is particularly troublesome considering how he pulled a gun out of his briefcase during a taping in response to a heckler."

I have a real good memeory, and I KNOW he got that soemwhere, and did not write that himself.

The guy is a cut and paste plagiarizer with few original thoughts in his head. Especially when it comes to his alter-ego, illogical_al.

[smyrna]

Here it is:

http://www.carm.org/chapel/shepherds_chapel.htm

This is where Observer got his paragraph for hos post #254 above.

GOTCHA!

You should give credit where credit is due, Observer. Unless you real name is Matt Slick, you copied his work and didn't give any credit to him.

Pretty much akin to stealing, I'd say.

At least you can't blame it on Satan.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[observer]

Thank you, Smyrna, for demonstrating to us how ad hominem works. Very nice job. OK, you got me. Not only am I "logic_al" over at Cultbusters; but I'm also Matt Slick.

Rev. Matt Slick, M. Div.

[godchild]

Check this out, observer:

FACTNet Message Board: Political, Governmental, Military or ... Democratic Party, angie0401, 67, 4, 11-02-06 3:03 am. QUEEN ELIZABETH TO SHUT DOWN FREEDOM ON INTERNET! anyscientologist, 1, 1, 10-27-06 7:56 pm ...

Note the name "anyscientologist". There's only one post on this thread: anyscientologist's.

Username: anyscientologist
----
Burning Babies Are Child's Play To Israel's Ethnic Cleansers

Racial purists don't accept civilian slaughter as a necessity of war, they fiendishly embrace it as they pursue an "ethno-bomb"

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet | July 25 2006

The megalomaniacs that control Israel wish to live in a world largely devoid of Muslims or Persians and they have embarked on a hundred year plus mission of ethnic cleansing to wipe them from the globe. The blitzkrieg of Lebanon is part of this process.
Race-specific bio-weapons have already been developed for this purpose.

From Wired News,

"Israel is reportedly developing a biological weapon that would harm Arabs while leaving Jews unaffected, according to a report in London's Sunday Times.

The report, citing Israeli military and western intelligence sources, says that scientists are trying to identify distinctive genes carried by Arabs to create a genetically modified bacterium or virus."

"The "ethno-bomb" program is based at Israel's Nes Tziyona research facility. Scientists are trying to use viruses and bacteria to alter DNA inside living cells and attack only those cells bearing Arabic genes."

Imagine if plans were unearthed detailing a program on behalf of Kim Jong-il or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to create an ethno-bomb to wipe out Jews or caucasians. How would Israel and the United States react?

Only Israel is allowed to be nuclear-armed, violate dozens of UN treaties, use chemical weapons on civilians, and construct horrific policies of ethnic cleansing.

Israel have made a pact to carry out this agenda in league with the Neo-Cons, and above them the Globalists, whose desire is also world population reduction and complete full spectrum domination and control over all countries and near-Earth space itself.

All these facets are openly discussed by the elite in their own public documents.

The burned faces of Lebanese babies as they scream out in pain after another indiscriminate attack do not chill the souls of the Israeli doom merchants who's goal is no less than the ethnic cleansing of the majority of an entire race of people. The use of white phosphorous will seem like baby powder when Israel unleashes its arsenal of black death in the near future.

To fully realize this dark vision, the Globalists need to eradicate any rogue state that may become a focal point of organized opposition to the creation of a one world government led by racial purists acting under the guise of humanitarians and environmentalists. There will be no room for sovereign nations in the New World Order.

Hezbollah are no angels but compared to the relentless mesmerized brutality of the Israeli war machine, even the lapdog lamestream media has all but given up trying to portray this as a balanced affair.

RELATED: Shocked at Israeli atrocities? Don't be.

Username: anyscientologist

The elite is making big money, Lord Rothschild and Rockefellon have happy faces
------------------------end for now
anyscientologist and plowdeep agree and share the same views on these government threads. It all sounds so familiar to am/sc and the scer's, doesn't it. Talk about liars, hypocrits, sneaky creeps. Though I shouldn't say that about plowdeep. He's pretty clear about being a rascist and has from the time he came here.

smyrna, Port Fourchon ring any bells?

[sharon]

xman3... You said,
{The serpents seed doctrine was supported by William Branham, who I consider a prophet, but not a good teacher.} Boy that caught my interest. You consider him a prophet? Well he did have some very new ideas, and some very old ones. You do not have to get into it here but I would love to hear your ideas on him. I am on the CB site and you can private message me there if you are ever back there, as I would really like to know why you concider him a prophet.
I like your way with words, and the fact that you find Jesus missing in our writings.

Dodge you are a riot, thank you for all the chuckles.

[xman3]

Hello Sharon. I wouldn't say Jesus is missing neccesarily, just that in all of the name calling and accusations I didn't see Him. As a casual observor of this area and occasional watcher of Murray I felt that the whole ministry was being discredited by that stuff to one like myself. There are a few controversial doctrines and beliefs presented here (to say the least) which I may not agree with, but I find interesting.

Over in the EN thread where I reside, I see much of the same baiting and arguing at times, and very few EN proponents posting, so in that sense I have to admire Smyrna and others for giving it a go. This place is tough on ministries and their supporters, and defending ones church or group with a bunch of ooey gooey love is next to impossible really. Maybe I should've stayed out of it, but for some reason i posted anyway.

Factnet is enough for me to post in as I really enjoy it. I have no problem posting a bit here if it seems right, about Branham or anything, but I don't want to hijack another groups thread over my silly ideas.

In a nutshell, I am fascinated by the prophetic and have read a lot on Branham. I have a book called "footsteps in the sands of time" which is a 600 page compilation of visions, sermons, and testimonies from his ministry which is quite interesting. I base my belief that he was a prophet (using the term loosely mind you) on the accuracy of those visions and the healings and such. I know full well there are detractors and much info to the contrary, but I don't base anything on him or his teachings so i don't care.

His teachings on both the serpents seed doctrine and the seven seals do not ring true with me. For several reasons, i believe that it was his error in teaching that ultimately led to his untimely death. He is so controversial that although I personally love the prophetic aspect of his life, I mostly just keep my feelings about it all to myself as there is really no good reason for me to defend or attack him. That's my take in a nutshell. What relevance he has to SC, if any, I have no idea, and suspect that the prophetic aspect would not fit in with their theology and beliefs regardless of any similar teachings. Sorry for the length, but I seem to always do this.

xman

[skooter942000]

<font color="0000ff">Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.


Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.


Eze 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.


Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.


Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.


Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more.
</font>

[skooter942000]

"ALMIGHTY GOD" - IS OUR ROCK.

Deu 32:4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.





Who is this "king of Tyrus"

- Tyre or Tyrus = "a rock"


Strong's Hebrew Lexicon

6865 Tsor tsore or Tsowr {tsore}; the same as 6864; a rock; Tsor, a place in Palestine:--Tyre, Tyrus.




Deu 32:31 For their rock [is] not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves [being] judges.


Deu 32:32 For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter:


Deu 32:33 Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.



- satan was clearly in the GARDEN.
- (As the Serpent) For he hissed lies to EVE.
- (SUBTLY)



[FUTURE PROPHECY]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.




anyone that says different,
That satan was not in the GARDEN.
- (Is not Educated in the GOD'S WORD).

= BEWARE OF THEM!!!


- also note the STONES of his breastplate.(Exe 28)
- Compare them to AARON'S.


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif- see?




Don <*))><

[watchman_2]

You have to laugh at some of these people. They get stuff off of the Apologetic websites and act like it is original. Heck, the stuff on most of the Apologetic websites isn't original either.

Cut and paste artists without the decency to cite the source.

Pathetic group of detractors.

[observer]

ARNOLD MURRAY: Founder and spokesman for the Shepherd's Chapel ministry and television program. The program has been on local Public Access channels late at night for many years. In recent years it has shown up on an increasing number of commercial stations, both secular and religious. Casual viewers who don't follow the program consistently seem to view it as just a nice old gentleman helping Bible students to carefully study the Bible verse by verse. Only those who commit more diligently to listen to all the programs and send for extra recordings of "deeper studies" will finally realize that Murray's "exegesis" of Bible passages is extremely idiosyncratic, his interpretations range from fanciful to fanatical, and are laced with both racism and anti-semitism ... and much more. A more extensive profile on Murray is currently being prepared for the Field Guide.

http://www.isitso.org/guide/whoiswho.html

[skooter942000]

<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica"><font color="ff0000">Luk 6:37 ¶ Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:


Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
</font></font>

[skooter942000]

From Observer:

(Quote)
There are no passages in the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil or the arch-enemy of God and humanity.

-----------
----------------
---------------------


http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Zec/Zec003.html#1




And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.


And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee:

...ETC


1Ch 21:1 ¶ And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.




Psa 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.


Psa 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.


Psa 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I [give myself unto] prayer.


Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.


Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.


Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

[skooter942000]

Mar 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.


Mar 3:23 And he called them [unto him], and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?


Mar 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.


Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.


Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.


Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.


Mar 3:28 ¶ Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:


Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

[skooter942000]

<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
</font></font>

[skooter942000]

<font color="aa00aa"><font size="+1">Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!


Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.


Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.


Mat 18:10 ¶ Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
</font></font>

[observer]

Scooter, in Zechariah 3 we have here again an example of how Satan is God's prosecuting attorney, not anything evil. Joshua seems to be on trial, standing before "the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him." This is Satan's job in the Old Testament, an accuser, that's all! What do you think Joshua was standing trial for? What do his "filthy garments" symbolize?

As prosecuting attorney, Satan wants Joshua to be removed from office, and the "sin" is symbolized by his filthy garments. And what do you think the LORD means when He says of Joshua, "...is not this man a brand plucked out of the fire?" It's a plea on Joshua's behalf in the trial, reminding us that he survived being thrown into a fiery furnace, and is therefore righeous. It is a plea to have his Priestly garments returned to him and restored to his office.

As far as the passage in 1 Chronicles 21:1, where is there any indication that Satan is evil? All he’s doing is telling David to conduct a census of Israel. There is no other mention of Satan in this Chapter. You also bring up Psalm 109:3; but the only reference to Satan is again as prosecutor, accuser “Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.” There is nothing evil being said of Satan, only references made to his Job as accuser, prosecuting attorney for God.

The point that I was trying to make is that in the Old Testament, Satan is not the devil, the enemy of God; he is a member of His council, the accusor, the prosecutor. There is nothing evil there. I would think that this is all obvious to any thoughtful reader.

[smyrna]

"smyrna, Port Fourchon ring any bells?"

Handles 90% of the oil field traffic in the Gulf. No secret there.

[smyrna]

illogical_al,

That I'll believe. Matt Slick you are not. Though I don't agree with Matt Slick's assesment of Pastor Murray, because it is so slanted, your level of "understanding" is something that Matt Slick would be embarrassed to put his name to.

[smyrna]

Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden I see is still suffering from her meltdown. Yes, I still have a wife. Don't mind being called "Cookie" or worm, or even Smegma. Other than Cookie, which is a common name for cooks out here, Smegma, and Worm are close to my heart.

Because they are my trophies, given to me by people who have been made to look so foolish, they completely broke down, and the only thing they have left is to think up what they think are nasty names that would upset me. It's a refelction of their own mentality.

Well, as with everything else you have done, you have failed.

Yours Truly,

Smegma the Worm,

Port Fourchon, La. or a few miles south, east, north, or west.

[watchman_2]

<font color="0000ff">Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
</font>
For the Christian, observer's statement,

<font color="ff0000">The point that I was trying to make is that in the Old Testament, Satan is not the devil, the enemy of God; he is a member of His council, the accusor, the prosecutor. There is nothing evil there. I would think that this is all obvious to any thoughtful reader.</font>

will never be true. The Devil is Satan.

[observer]

Watchman, my argument was that in the Old Testament Satan was not the evil Devil that the New Testament makes him out to be; but one of God's helpers in His administration, a prosecutor, accuser. Quoting the New Testament is not proof that this is not true. As a matter of fact, it proves my point.

In fact, Jesus himself never intended to found a new religion. It was Paul (Saul) who took the remnants of Jesus' desciples after He was put to death (who were all waiting around for Jesus to come back to finish His job as Messiah) and created Pauline Christianity. It was Paul who interpreted Jesus' life and death as fitting into a cosmic scheme of salvation, "stretching from the creation of Adam to the end of time." The doctrines of Christianity came mostly from the teaching or influence of Paul (a Pharisee?) he obtained in a vision. Paul never met Jesus.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

[watchman_2]

observer,

In the overall context of the Bible, I agree with you to a certain extent that Satan has a role to play.

As you may know, SCers claim that there was a first earth age in which Satan became prideful and wicked from his own free will. Satan drew 1/3 of the souls/angels with him. God destroyed that first age.

This age is simply an opportunity for all souls to be given another chance, being born of woman without knowledge of the first age, to freely choose camps to reside in -- with God or with Satan.

So, to that extent, Satan was allowed to live by God so that Satan can test the souls again. If you read the Book of Revelation, once Satan has fulfilled his mission in this age, Satan is destroyed once and for all.

To me, the strongest evidence for your position is the account of Satan in the Book of Job. However, I do not share your conclusion that Satan was not the devil nor is God's attorney.

[observer]

Hi “watchman_2” – I understand that you believe in these “Earth ages,” that involve Satan and God and our souls; but I really don’t see any evidence in the Old Testament. As one who comes from a Jewish perspective, I see Satan as one of G-d’s underlings, an entity that prosecutes and looks for reasons to bring humanity up on charges. In this way, Satan has no authority of his own, but acts in accordance with G-d’s will. Your idea’s about these ages are not part of my belief system, and never will be. You ask me to read the book of Revelation; but as one coming from a Jewish perspective, it has little meaning to me.

Take letters two and six (2:8-11 and 3:7-13) in Revelation. Jesus is said to say that those who are Jews but are not are blasphemous, and a “synagogue of Satan.” Jews who do not accept Christianity are characterized as worshipers of Satan. Paul’s definition of a “true Jew” is one who submits to belief in Jesus, not the Torah. Jews who do not believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior are classified as “Jews of the Flesh” and not “true spiritual Jews.” The author of Revelation declares that Jews of the Flesh who do not become “true Jews” (i..e. Christians) worship Satan.

This is why the Shepherds Chapel and Arnold Murray will always be confronted with opposition. And I will be amongst those who oppose you others of your ilk.

Can’t you see that this has led, through the years, to Christians seeing Jews as “evil” and the Christian Church seeking to hasten the day when Jesus will come and make the “Synagogue of Satan” bow down at their feet by persecution of the Jews?

[watchman_2]

observer,

If you study the SC position within these threads, you will see that we are very much supportive of our Jewish brothers and sisters. We know that Jews have been falsely persecuted for having Christ crucified, when it was, in fact, the Kenites that did this as prophesied in Gen. 3:15. Nothing taught by PM/SC is remotely racist.

It is my personal opinion [can't back it up with scripture], that God has blessed the Jewish people with prosperity due to the false persecution throughout the centuries since Christ.

The 'synagogue of Satan' in Rev. are the Kenites. It has no bearing on Jews that don't worship Christ. So, your conclusion regarding SC is totally misguided and lacking in merit. I'm certain you got that opinion from some anti-SC website. Certainly, no SCer has put forth that position.

Your concluding paragraph is equally lacking in merit and truth. I suggest that you actually research SC positions before you go off the deep end with your accusations. It demonstrates your complete lack of objectivity and fairness.

[skooter942000]

To OBSERVER

- is satan sentenced to perish (Y/N)?

X____________________________



Also - Is GOD Unfair?


-------------------------------
From Observer

Watchman, my argument was that in the Old Testament Satan was not the evil Devil that the New Testament makes him out to be; but one of God's helpers in His administration, a prosecutor, accuser. Quoting the New Testament is not proof that this is not true. As a matter of fact, it proves my point.
-----------------------------------


- GOD'S Little helper?

I have never seen such respect for satan
from anyone who claims to follow after CHRIST.

- Just an opinion ...or Observation.


satan is our greatest enemy.

- his "NAME", SAYS IT ALL!!!

7853 satan saw-tan' a primitive root;
to attack, (figuratively) accuse:
--(be an) adversary, resist.

7854 satan saw-tawn' from 7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch-enemy of good:--adversary, Satan, withstand.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif


Don <*))><

[observer]

Hi Skooter...

You ask me if I think Satan will perish? Well, in my mind I see all that exists in this objective reality that we find ourselves in as being “emanated” from the “mind of G-d.” So, the way I see it is that all will return to where it came from. This includes every atom, quark, gluon and string along with the energy that animates it all. This includes “you” and “me” and “others,” and the force within this universe that we call “Satan.” In the end, all will return to the “creator” in a great inhalation, where all will be One once more, where there will be no separation or duality. The Greeks called this the "pleroma." Does that answer your question?

You tell me that you “…have never seen such respect for satan from anyone who claimes to follow after CHRIST.” Where did you get the idea that I follow Christ?

[skooter942000]

From OBSERVER:


Hi Skooter...

You ask me if I think Satan will perish? Well, in my mind I see all that exists in this objective reality that we find ourselves in as being “emanated” from the “mind of G-d.”

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif[&amp;]http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif




You tell me that you “…have never seen such respect for satan from anyone who claimes to follow after CHRIST.”

Where did you get the idea that I follow Christ?

-----------
--------------
------------------

- [EXACTLY] http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


"satan" is not sentenced to PERISH,
- (For NAUGHT)!!!

Is satan a real entity or make-believe?

- Can't have it both ways.




- your posts are very confusing.
- Yet also -(Quite CLEAR), at the same time.

<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">= [G-d]</font></font>



Jer 23:1 ¶ Woe be unto the pastors that destroy
and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the
LORD.

Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of
Israel against the pastors that feed my people;
Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them
away, and have not visited them: behold, I will
visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith
the LORD.

Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my
flock out of all countries whither I have driven
them, and will bring them again to their folds;
and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jer 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them
which shall feed them: and they shall fear no
more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be
lacking, saith the LORD.

Jer 23:5 ¶ Behold, the days come,
saith the LORD, that I will raise unto
David a righteous Branch,
and a King shall reign and prosper,
and shall execute judgment and justice
in the earth.

Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved,
and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is]
his name whereby he shall be called,
[THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS].

Jer 23:7 ¶ Therefore, behold, the days come,
saith the LORD, that they shall no more say,
The LORD liveth, which brought up the children
of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

Jer 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought
up and which led the seed of the house of
Israel out of the north country, and from all countries
whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.


[AMEN]


Don >*))><

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">
Observer said
*********************************************** *
QUOTE " Take letters two and six (2:8-11 and 3:7-13) in Revelation. Jesus is said to say that those who are Jews but are not are blasphemous, and a “synagogue of Satan.” Jews who do not accept Christianity are characterized as worshipers of Satan."
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

Revelation 2:9
" I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which SAY they are Jews, AND ARE NOT, but are the synagogue of Satan. "

Revelation 3:9
" Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which SAY they are Jews, AND ARE NOT, BUT DO LIE; ...... " </font></font></font>
<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifIt seems by your own words Observer, that you are saying to us that The Word of God is describing those of The Tribe of Judah = Jews, who do not except Christ as "worshippers of satan" ??? However, those are YOUR OWN words in which you have concluded all on your own, and because they are your own words, and are not that which is written, they are not True, false they are. As it is very clear in the above verses which are quoted that Christ is NOT speaking, nor is He talking about those of The House of Judah in those verses in which you spoke of in your above stated quote. Christ is talking to us about THOSE "THAT SAY" they are of The Tribe of Judah [= that being Jews], BUT DO LIE ! In others words, they simply have "claimed" to be of The Tribe of Judah, BUT CLEARLY ARE NOT. For these that Christ is speaking of are NOT of The Tribe of Judah=Jews, they just "say they are"... big difference in that.... don't you think ? I simply suggest that you go and look for yourself and read AGAIN those verses in which you have noted in your above quote, AND AFTER YOU HAVE READ that which IS written AGAIN, perhaps you'll then see the 'specifics' which are within those verses ? Such as " THAT SAY" , " ARE NOT', and "BUT DO LIE", and then you will know and better understand that Jesus Christ THE Lord was not speaking of The House of Judah there, nor was He speaking of The Tribe of Judah = Jews. He clearly says those that "SAY THEY ARE" of The Tribe of Judah= Jews, but do what ? .... but do LIE ! LIARS ! And also, Watchman has been kind, and given to you Truth to know exactly 'what' people it is that Christ was talking about.

Abiyah</font>

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-2"> Observer said:
*********************************************** *
QUOTE: " Paul’s definition of a “true Jew” is one who submits to belief in Jesus, NOT The Torah. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Not The Torah ????
The Old Testament, The Law, The prophets of God and ALL of God's Teaching within The Old Testament are simply the foundation of The New Testament; Therefore, The New Testament is FOUNDED upon The Old Testament. And it is Written.</font></font></font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

Psalm 40:7
" Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of The Book it is written of Me, "

Matthew 5:17-18 *** Christ Speaking ***
" THINK 'NOT' that I am come to destroy The Law, or the prophets; I am NOT come to destroy, but TO FUFIL. For verily I say unto you, Till Heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall IN NO WISE PASS FROM The Law, till all be fulfilled."

And it IS Written

Deuteronomy 18:15
" The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me [born in flesh]; unto Him ye shall hearken; "

Deuteronomy 18:16
" According to all that thou desiredst of The LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of The LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. "

Deuteronomy 18:17
" And The LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. "

Deuteronomy 18:18
" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put My Words in His Mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. "

Deuteronomy 18:19
" And it shall come to pass, that whosoever WILL NOT HEARKEN unto My words which He shall speak in My Name, I will require it of him. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifHere we see that which Moses spoke of fufilled.

John 1:1
" In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word WAS God. "

John 1:14
" And The Word WAS MADE flesh [ Genesis 1:26 ], and dwelt among us [ = Immanuel Isaiah 7:14 ], (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father,) full of Grace and Truth.

John 8:28
" Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up The Son of man, then shall ye know that I am He, and that I do nothing of myself; but as My Father hath Taught Me, I SPEAK THESE THINGS. "

John 12:49 ** Christ Speaking **
" For I have not spoken of myself; but The Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, WHAT I SHOULD SAY, and WHAT I SHOULD SPEAK. "

John 14:10
" Believest thou not that I am IN The Father, and The Father IM Me ? The Words that I SPEAK unto you I speak NOT of myself; but The Father that dwelleth in Me, HE DOETH THE WORKS. "</font></font></font>

[yaqakallah]

Observer.

Do you mind if I ask if you are of the Tribe of Judah or of the jewish faith?

You claim not to follow Christ, which means you are not christian. Do you follow/obey/love the G-d of Abraham ie the G-d of the OT?

Sorry to be so nosey, just trying to understand your point of view which has alot to do with what G-d you follow, if any.

just asking, no reply necessary

thanks in advance!

Kim

[godchild]

abiyah (abiyah)
New member
Username: abiyah

Post Number: 14
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 24.59.129.197
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 8:52 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi there Anniecat !

So very excited and glad to hear from you and again, what a pleasure to read your letter ! I just Love it. I think it's great that you want to be a gardner, and be in chrage of His big cats.. lol lol lol, ya know, I myself have wondered what my job will be, I just don't know, but I look so forward to finding out. It's exciting isn't it ?


Gee, I am sorry to hear about your son, and his present cardiac condition(s), and please know that my prayers are indeed with him. I know he can get through this. I think it is just wonderful that your son has given out those children's Bibles from the Shepherd's Chapel, that is just great !

And I have seen E. Raymond Capt's Glastonbury, on the Shepherd's Chapel, very very intersting; and you sure do know your Bible, lol lol lol

[godchild]

abiyah (abiyah)
New member
Username: abiyah

Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 24.59.129.197
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:00 pm:

Also, we know that God created " ALL " the human races on the sixth day, male &amp; female created He them, He told them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth. He looked and saw what He created on that sixth day, and He looked and saw that it was not only good, but that it was "very good". [ Genesis chapter 1] THEN HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY, and on the "eighth day" He formed "the" Adam. [ This 8th day Adam/man has the article in front of his name, which distinguishes him from the 6th day Adam/man]. "The" man Adam, from the "eighth day" creation is a special man, because Christ, the Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ would come through this 8th day lineage, from unbiblical cord to unbiblical cord. "The" Adam has the article in front of his name "the" man; do you know what Adam means in the Hebrew ? It means ruddy complected, or to show red or blood in the face, like.... ya know..... when you get embarrassed, or even I have a friend, who is a red head, and she is kinda reddish, with freckles. Remember king David, he was a red head, and he was of the Tribe of Judah. And no, I am not saying that all of Judah has red hair..lol lol lol' however, I think it gives you an idea of what race the Israelites were [ that would include the Tribe of Judah], if they came from Adam &amp; Eve, they'd be Adamic, and I told you what Adam means, to show blood in the face, ruddy complected.

[godchild]

smyrna (smyrna)
New member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.6.91.103
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 1:06 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love the way "billyfan" minimzies the rapture doctrine as a "a secondary teaching that we need not divide over." The rapture doctrine is very dangerous to any soul. It sets them up to accept the antichrist when he comes. I know that there are theologians who do not believe in a literal antichrist, but that's their opinion, though it is easily refuted. That Murray refers to those who teach such trash as "Idiot," "Jezebels," "Ignorant to believe such trash," and "Idiot, you're going to hell!"
I love it. It's about time someone got on TV and gets tough with these tabloid theologians who sell books and bumperstickers hawking a false teaching to make money on it. Like the "Left Behind" series, for instance. Murray's style may not be for everyone, but neither was St. Pauls' style either, because he got beat up a few times over it, just as Murray gets beaten up in a figurative sense by all these traditionalists, who thinks truth is defined as accepted orthodox teachings, which, by the way, you will get a different defintion for depending on who you ask.

[smyrna]

Hey folks, is this great or what? Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden is imploding right before our eyes.

She used to ignore many of my posts. Now she likes them so much, she's reposting them!

As they say, imitation is the highest form of of flattery.

I think that applies here.

[godchild]

The point of my re-posting was for 2 very important reasons, (that is unless smyrna and am have repented since they said these things about Christians, and there is no evidence of that):

scers have continually denied that am judges others or that he considers himself superior, and smyrna (as a student of am/sc) showed/shows his hatred here and praise of someone who judges others. smyrna shouldn't take it personal. There is more to come to show the other scers are no different than he.

[skooter942000]

Hey Abiyah , (Where have you been).
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


Mat 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.



<font color="ff6000">"Vivian"
- (Are these messages from you shared in LOVE)?
- CHRISTIAN LOVE?</font>

Pro 6:12 ¶ A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.

Pro 6:13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;

Pro 6:14 Frowardness [is] in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.

Pro 6:15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.

Pro 6:16 ¶ These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:

Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Pro 6:19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[skooter942000]

Many on this BOARD do not have the LOVE of CHRIST
within themselves.

The HATE they have for others, (SHOWS FORTH).

<font color="0000ff"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="+1">
1Cr 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ,
let him be Anathema Maranatha. </font></font></font>

[godchild]

It would be wise for anyone reading these threads to read the past posts for a better understanding of who is doing what, and for what purpose. Scers came here not for bible study, (which they lie by saying so), but to attack those who disagree with the false teachings of am/sc. Its that simple. Once people understand that, they will begin to figure these people out. Or they will join them, being like-minded. Simple enough?

[franklin]

"The HATE they have for others, (SHOWS FORTH)".

The hatred you have for the Jews and what arnie calls and adolph called the "mongrel" races, blacks and orientals shows forth in all of the serpent seeders posts. Anyone who opposes your racism is a kenite or a kenite lover.

The serpent seed heresy is nothing more than hatred for your fellow humans.

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">

SKOOTER942000 WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: "Hey Abiyah , (Where have you been). END"
*********************************************** **</font></font></font>
<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifGood Evening to you my brother Skooter;

And Peace and Grace be unto you from our Lord &amp; Savior Jesus The Christ. I have been busy is all, and am trying to make my way back to FACTnet Shepherd's Chapel Threads. I was able to stop by yesterday though, and saw you were here.... greeeeeat ! : ) My heart is always joyed to see you here Skooter. And though I may not be here every day or as often as I use to, indeed you are ALL on my heart and in my prayers. Hopefully, God WILLING.... I'll be back here on Monday. " )

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gifAlso.... Vivian, I thank you for taking the time to seek out and repost some of my post(s)... WOW, that was a peasant surprise, that was very thoughtful of you, those post(s) are from so, so, so long ago. " ) LOL ! And well.... I hope they may help to edify another in the knowledge and understanding of our Father's Word with regard to 'The' man Adam, as well as king David, as far as what they looked like... I bet David was handsome, as it IS Written he had a fair [= meaning beautiful; handsome] countenance [ I Samuel 17:42 ]. Although, I'm not exactly sure what your point is in re-posting that post in the middle of this particular thread Vivian, but I certainly will not complaint, as itmay help one have a better understanding. " ) And I would hope that it might help to edify another. Oh yes, Oh yes..... one more thing Vivian, the post that I had addressed to 'Anniecat' in which you re-posted above as well, I also wanted to thank you for posting that as it is a fond memory to my own heart, gee.... I forgot about that. You know, I'd like to share a little story with you Vivian, if I may... ' Anniecat' is actually the very first Christian that I met here at FACTnet that ALSO Studies our Father's Word along with The Shepherd's Chapel. And in meeting such a fine servant of Jesus Christ The Lord here at FACTnet has made me to realize that there are many blessings here at FACTnet, as she has been one to me. : ) And did you know that we have been dear friends, fellow labourers in Christ The Lord ever since that time, a beloved sister she is indeed, and a blessing in many ways, and I Thank The LORD God for such a dear friend in Christ The Lord, I Thank God for ALL His goodness He has shown unto me. : ) And I thank you Vivian for reminding me of exactly where I met such a very good friend and fellow labourer in Christ..... here at FACTnet. " )

Abiyah</font>

[dodge]

Do you think Satan does what he wants to do, irregardless of God's will? Or is Satan completely subservient to God's will in everything he does?

[franklin]

Nothing satan does is God's will. You could ask the same question about people. But all people at one time or another do God's will. Good. But God does ALLOW evil to happen. But evil is never God's will. If everything done on Earth was God's will this would be paradise, heaven. But it is not. Heaven is in the presence of God where evil can not exist.

[smyrna]

Frankie better have a talk with "Illogical_al" because that is NOT what he has been posting over at the CB "Let's Talk About Satan" thread.

As a matter of documentable fact, it is OPPOSITE of what Frankie posted above.

Do I really have to post parts of "illogical_al's " ridiculous commentary again?

You know, the one where he claims that Satan is "God's lawyer", and that satan is a "henchman" that carries out "God's evil instructions."?

Sounds like trouble in paradise, Frankie.

[godchild]

quote:
I bet David was handsome, as it IS Written he had a fair [= meaning beautiful; handsome] countenance [ I Samuel 17:42 ].

Look back at your post. You stated King David was a "red head". You lied. You twisted what the scripture says to push the false teaching that Israelites are "white".
quote:
And no, I am not saying that all of Judah has red hair..lol lol lol' however, I think it gives you an idea of what race the Israelites were [ that would include the Tribe of Judah], if they came from Adam &amp; Eve, they'd be Adamic, and I told you what Adam means, to show blood in the face, ruddy complected.

As I said to Kim, these folks haven't repented. So past or present posts by them are the same old lies about the scriptures.

abi, Are you still good friends with John Parker, aka trentwoodard, eli, sashamirage, John Cody Parker and others? He was a wonderful Christian man according to your posts to and about him and you enjoyed his posts so much.

He's a preacher for neo-nazis who preaches the same trash am/sc does. You praised him even after you knew who he really was. Don't you see that as hypocrisy, abi? I must tell you IT IS!

[smyrna]

Abyiah,
Considering Godchild's history, I'd be willing to bet she is lying about you.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

I was one here when "John Cody" was here. I don't recall him operating under a different name.

I'm not saying he didn't but I bet you yourself may not have known and Godchild is probably accusing you of knowing this.

No matter, she has no room to talk about anyone.

She openly doubted the Virgin birth, and is presently in a discussion at CB that claims that satan was not in Eden, and is just a "concept" that "underwent development" and that Satan is a "henchman" for God and carries out "God's evil instructions."

(New readers see Cultbusters.com.au thread Let's Talk About Satan.")

How sick is that?

(Message edited by smyrna on January 20, 2007)

[smyrna]

FROM THE VERY SAD THREAD Called: Let's Talk About Satan, that Godchild said she agrees with:

"There are no passages within the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil - the arch enemy of God and of humanity. At most, he is described as a henchman who carries out God's evil instructions."

So logic_al (the poster)writes one of the most ridiculous commentaries I've seen, which really is a copy and paste job from stuff he found on the 'net,(mixed with his own stupid opinions) and Godchild walks locks step with this clown.

Yet she talks about others' "false teachings", is demonstrably inept at discussing Scripture,
and as we can see, follows the most insanely sepculative, slanted opinions of modern and not so modern "higher critics" people who, it seems, go out of their way to cast doubt on the existence of a chief evil spirit, even going so far as claiming God hands out evil instructions!

[godchild]

Oh my gosh. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif We all discussed in full the number of names trentwoodard used, even more than the ones I just listed. He admitted several of them. You prove me wrong, smyrna. What an idiot you are.

I'm really glad that abi posted what she did. She says anniecat is her friend and is in touch with her/him. Well, look at this (anniecat used different ip's, but these are so interesting. I wonder if abi is aware or doesn't care).

anniecat (anniecat)
New member
Username: anniecat

Post Number: 6
Registered: <font color="ff0000">8-2005</font>
Posted From:<font color="ff0000"> 205.188.117.13</font>
Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 6:07 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear,
Explain John 8:44... who is who and where, and why. How about John 8:42? John 8:43 ? John 8:38?
John 8:41? 1 John 3:12 ? Revelation 2:9 ?
WHY is Cain not in Adams geneology?
You know if you and the rest of these people that feel they must downgrade someone for teaching the Truth... I washed my hands before, and I feel I must again, because there are NO ears to hear, no eyes to see nor a heart or soul to hear Gods Truths... Seems David needs someones credentials to teach... I didnt see Peters, Johns, Pauls, Lukes, Marks or Matthews....Wonder what your credentials look like...Belly aching fault finding .. oops, maybe they dont give a diploma for that? How about Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah.. and the rest of the Prophets.... They were CALLED of God... like Pastor Murray was called...... and its a shame that you people cannot with an open mind and a prayer to ask God open your heart, eyes and ears.. But you are a bunch of stiff necked know it alls, so puffed up with your own "knowledge?" and "your" importance!
All I have to say, he who is without sin, cast the first stone.... and "by their fruits, ye shall know them"
Im through.. you are probably saying good riddance.... but I will be praying that your soul will WANT the truth..
The TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!
----------
kleagle (kleagle)
New member
Username: kleagle

Post Number: 1
Registered: <font color="ff0000">8-2005</font>
Posted From: <font color="ff0000">205.188.117.13</font>
Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 7:20 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Klan is eveywhere! We are your neighbors, your friends, your coworkers, and your family. The Klan is not here to persecute blacks. We are here to protect the white race!
The myths and stories you know were told by blacks who couldn't write they told stories and fables. Ghost stories of the KLAN the Klan was the law in the south when there wasn't any law! They were the protectors of the confederate widows!

By the way tell your neighbor I said HI!

LONG LIVE THE KU KLUX KLAN
------------end

[godchild]

You want to call me a liar again, go to the KKK threads and factnet archives. You people are evil to the core. You don't fool anyone.

[gone_to_pa]

Christian Research Institute

ARNOLD MURRAY AND THE SHEPHERD'S CHAPEL

A teacher who has recently become popular over television is a man named Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel in Gravette, Arkansas. We at the Christian Research Institute do not endorse the teachings of Arnold Murray. This paper will demonstrate why we consider Mr. Murray's teachings to be heretical.

THE CULTIC TEACHINGS OF ARNOLD MURRAY

Modalism

Mr. Murray does not believe in the Christian doctrine of the Trinity (one God existing eternally in three Persons). There are three real and personal relationships between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Murray denies the three persons of God, claiming they are merely three offices. Concerning the Trinity, he said:

You have these yo-yo's that will say, 'Well I want you to think like of water (sic) and ice' and so on, various gases or so forth, or then they'll say, 'I want you to think of a 200 watt bulb, and a 150 watt bulb, and a 50 watt bulb.' Well, they're all the same wattage, friend. So why not just simplify it instead of playing stupid games, and understand there are three offices of the Godhead. Like this little lady said. She said, 'To my husband I am a wife, to my children I am a mother, that's my office. To hundreds of third graders I am their teacher and have been down through the years. That's a different office; none of them the same, but I'm still the same person.' I like that. It's simple and to the point (The Shepherd's Chapel Question and Answers period, aired 64-91).

Referring to Christ, Murray says, "His spirit is holy and he is the Holy Spirit." (Shepherd's Chapel Question and Answers period, aired 54-91) Hence, Murray is guilty of teaching the heresy of modalism, which states that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (one Person in three roles, or modes). One of the accusations made against CRI by the followers of Arnold Murray is that Mr. Murray does hold to the eternal deity of Christ. However, since Murray does not believe in the three Persons of the Trinity, he cannot logically hold to the deity of Jesus Christ being the eternal Son of God, Second Person of the Trinity. Having made these statements, he inconsistently says, A wise man never discusses the Trinity. (Ibid., 5-15-91)

Little Gods

Not only does Arnold Murray teach a false concert of God, he also believes that men were once gods who existed prior to living on the earth. In Genesis 1:26 when referring to the "Our" and "Us" (which has normally been understood to mean the Persons of the Trinity: Mal.2:10 cf. Job 9:8; Isa.44:24) Murray says, "he spoke to the Elohim, meaning God and his children, let us make that man in our image, which is to say make it look in the likeness that we are. Do you appear as your soul appeared in the world that was?"-I told you, that God said "in Our image, Our likeness', the Elohim were standing there, they were from before." (Tape #146) We always were with Him [God] until you were born into this earth.. (Kenites, Tape #436) Similar to the cultic teaching of the Mormons, Murray declares that God is "one man,...our Father," and like the Oneness Pentecostals, God "(sic) gots three offices he serves". (Shepherd's Chapel Questions and Answers period, aire. 5/14/91

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">
godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Look back at your post. You stated King David was a "red head". You lied. You twisted what the scripture says......... " END
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

I lie not, but you on the other hand are a liar Vivian, and you being a Christian should know better. : ( IT IS WRITTEN.... the question is ... have you not read ?</font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

I Samuel 17:42
" And when the Philistine looked about, and saw DAVID, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, AND RUDDY, and of a FAIR COUNTENANCE. "</font></font></font>

<font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>Ruddy</font><font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font> as it appears in this above verse IS the Hebrew word 'admoniy [ad-mo-nee'] or fully 'admowniy [ad-mo-nee'],</font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font> and it means REDDISH (OF THE HAIR or THE COMPLEXION): -red, ruddy.</font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

Now Ms. Hadden ...okay.... perhaps David did not have red hair, maybe he had blonde hair, or perhaps strawberry blonde, or maybe even brown hair. Now let's get this straight, I stated that David had 'red hair' becuase it CLEARLY states in the above verse that David was "RUDDY", and I have shown you now the meaning thereof, so I guess you can make your own conclusion... right ? I also stated that David was handsome, WHY did I say that ? Well... because it CLEARLY states there in The First Book of Samuel, that David had a
'FAIR', which means 'handsome', appearance. See how then that I have drawn my conclusion to that which I stated in regard to king David ? I hope this helps you to then better understand. And ohhh yes, Vivian, please stop spewing out racism, because again, ALL, and I do mean ALL the peoples of the world are The LORD's, He created each and every one of them ... ALL, and each soul belongs to Him [Ezekiel 18:4]. And again, as I have said to you before, you know not what race i am now do you ? So stop with your nonesense, please.... its getting very, very old. And besides, we are here to discuss The Word of God, that Word that brings peace upon the hearts of many, but you choose to cause discord and trouble, so just stop it. Enough ! If you are not here to enjoy The Truth of God's Word... than please Vivian... go your way and leave us in peace.

Abiyah</font>

[franklin]

Uh, excuse me. This thread (Shepherds Chapel / Arnold Murray)was started to expose the cult that is called Shepherd's Chapel and the non Christian heresy of Arnold Murray.

You, as cult apologists, defenders, came later (from the Nazi, Aryan Nation, KKK threads with new user names) to defend your cult and it's racist heretical teachings.

If anyone should "go your way and leave us in peace" it should be you and your serpent seeder wolfpack!

[yaqakallah]

Actually,

FN states that this is a place for those who were a member of a Religious organization who were harmed(themselves or a loved one) to come together in unity 'to tell their own story'.

Who cares who made the first SC post? In the 5 months I have posted here, I cannot recall one person coming here claiming that they or a loved one was harmed in anyway by this Church.

[smyrna]

Very good point Kim. But there are people on the web that have claimed one of their loved ones was "deceived" or "led astray". But to my knowledge, not one has said they themselves has been harmed by the SC.

Bottom line: the intolerance of detractors is the harmful agent.

[franklin]

Intolerance of intolerance (the SC heresy) is not intolerance. Racism should NEVER be tolerated anywhere, anytime!

[godchild]

All anyone has to do is read these threads to see the harm scer's and am/sc causes everyone! So please, take your beliefs to your own sites where you can share them to your heart's content, without interruption by Christians who are offended by hearing these heresies and blasphemies.
-Vivian Hadden

smyrna, Why haven't you invited kim to your site. Why don't you open it for discussion there? Scared, perhaps! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">

godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " kleagle (kleagle)
New member
Username: kleagle

Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 205.188.117.13
Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005- 7:20 pm:"END
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifFunny Vivian.... I have not been able to locate this 'so-called' post that you claim that anniecat wrote..... Hmmmmm ?? I'd hope you are not bearing false witness again Ms. Hadden ? If you want us to believe that which you 'accuse' Anniecat of, then you would need to PROVE exactly where one can go and read this for themselves.


As a matter of fact... Does anyone know where these so-called ' KKK ' threads are located ? Apparently both Vivian and Franklin find pleasure in frequenting them... I did not see them...... do they even exist here at FACTnet ?

Abiyah</font>

[franklin]

You think you are so cute playing naive. Duh!?! You must not have looked at all. Here are just some of the many racist posts on fn. Probably the majority are right here on the SC threads posted by these Klansmen and women in the closet calling themselves SC "students".

FACTNet Message Board » Religious Cults and Sects » White Supremacy « Previous Next »

Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Steson Kennedy -- Historical cultbuster frankenchrist 7 1 11-28-06 10:39 pm
Dating A Skinhead raine 29 1 6-26-06 1:36 pm
Ku Klux Klan / KKK we_agnostics 303 7 5-02-06 12:33 pm
America the beautiful joshsgrl 4 1 4-21-06 8:52 pm
Nazi's Rally scheduled for Friday Feb. 4th in Los Angeles joshsgrl 14 1 4-19-06 3:33 pm
Start New Thread

[abiyah]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif Well godchild... I did see the post that you spoke of..... it is possible that Anniecat may have been using a public comupter, example... library, or perhaps there is more than one person living in her home that may have written that or used her computer to write that, I see no other posts from this one called 'kleagle'. Only God knows who wrote that, you do not. I will say this... that Anniecat knows and understands that ALL RACES of people are The LORD's, for indeed He created ALL things for His pleasure, and ALL that are in Jesus Christ The Lord are ONE, and there are no racial conflicts in Him.

Abiyah</font>

[skooter942000]

I can't wait for CHRIST to Return.


"HIS Correction" - (Will be JUST and SWIFT)



Mar 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new
cloth on an old garment: else the new piece
that filled it up taketh away from the old,
and the rent is made worse.


Mar 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into
old bottles: else the new wine doth burst
the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the
bottles will be marred: but new wine must be
put into new bottles.

---------
----------------
------------------------

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif



- On a Similar note:

If people partake of Strong Drink, then post on this board.
- What spirit will be in the Messages?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


Don <*))><

[godchild]

abi and the rest of you. Factnet archives every post. It's up to you to find it. Stop calling me a liar. I may have made a mistake connecting angie to anyscientologist, but I don't doctor posts. That was an honest mistake, whether you think so or not. You would be amazed to find what you folks have written in the past that is still out there.

abi, This isn't the first time this has happened with you people. It's no wonder we are suspicious. What do you expect? There is ample evidence, which we've all gone through before, of the other names several of you have used here, on other threads.

You are also aware that factnet stopped showing many posts that were on the threads from the past. Remember this:

soulofthebang
New member
Username: soulofthebang

Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.243.188.212
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 5:20 pm:

Would the consider a italian a white person, or italian
Would you consider a person from Spain white or a Euporean Spainard.
Would you consider a Portuguese person Caucasian or Portuguese.

Username: godchild

Post Number: 2755
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 4.255.41.141
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 11:56 pm:
watchman, why are you using another name. Can't tell your lies without hiding who you are?

watchman # 4.243.188.212
soulofthebang # same

Your's is so easy to detect. You're the only one with a 4.xxxxxxxxxx Hypocrit, liar, rascist, fraud.

Vivian (godchild) In case someone else may want to claim MY username, it's taken.

sign_of_the_cross
Junior Member
Username: sign_of_the_cross

Post Number: 39
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 65.57.106.37 (Note the quick change?-gc)
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 2:54 am:

You mean besides yours - 4.255.41.141 Doh!


godchild
Senior Member
Username: godchild

Post Number: 2777
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 4.255.46.110
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:02 am:
I was waiting for that. If you would take the time to read some of my posts, especially those in January, I was in CA with my dying friend and her family. I used their computer while I was there which is evidenced by my posts. This changed my reg.# to start with a 4. (California, which is where watchman has said he lives [L.A.}). I came home by the first of February and since I started posting from OR (64.)again, factnet has simply kept my CA reg.#. If anyone else on factnet is from the L.A. or Monrovia area, please stand up.

Don't be surprised if several do (3-8). What you will note is that they are all posting on either the Aryan, kkk, am/sc threads for the most part. That I find to be a 'big' coincidence. It should be obvious to anyone who reads my posts I only post on these threads against what is taught there.

(Message edited by godchild on March 27, 2006)

[skooter942000]

Amen "yaqakallah"

-----------------------------------
RE:
FN states that this is a place for those who were a member of a Religious organization who were harmed(themselves or a loved one) to come together in unity 'to tell their own story'.
----------8<---cut-------------------------


How many who post against SC,
have been harmed by SC? (and their Teachings)

???






"A LIAR" is "A LIAR",
- (And it's in the book).

And all here know, (Or should know)

LIARS will not enter into the KINGDOM. (Rev 21)


[Repentance is a GIFT]


Many here have ROTTEN FRUIT.
They do not know CHRIST, (Or what HE teaches).

You can see it in their Messages.



Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.


Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:


Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:



Don <*))><

[skooter942000]

<font color="ff0000">Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.


Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.


Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.


Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.


Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:


Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
</font>

[godchild]

Are you coming here drunk, don? Well, that explains all your scripture posting having nothing to do with the subjects.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
As someone who hasn't drank alcohol in over 4 years, 4 years and 3 months, to be exact, I understand your problem. It can really mess up your head. My advice; detox and rehab. You'll be amazed at how clear your thoughts become in a really short time. Good luck!
-Vivian Hadden

[smyrna]

If Godchild wasn't drunk during her meltdown earlier in the week, she's worse off than she may think.

After all,I'd rather admit being intoxicated, than to actually admit that I was a part of that ridiculous cultbusters.com.au "Let's Talk About Satan" thread, where satan was called a "henchman that carries out God's EVIL instructions" or "God's lawyer" and the worst of the worst: that satan "is a concept" that "underwent development"

Look at the top of this thread. I posted a comment about that aforementioned ridiculous CB discussion, and Godchild's response also didn't have anything to do with it. Some scat about King's Chapel.

Now she claims Skooter's post is irrelevent to the discussion, and that he's drunk because of it.

Let me propose a toast, for truth, huh, Godchild/Vivian Hetherton Hadden?

[getagrip]

Smyrna:

Do you like apples?

[getagrip]

Bears 39 Saints 14.

How do you like them apples!!!

I know you'll be pulling for the Monsters of the Midway now that the Saints have bowed out...

Have a great night!

[smyrna]

How do I like it? Well, I'm hoping it's Bears-Colts, and th Bears take a big bite out of those Horses.

I lost $100 bet with my wife. Oh well, like us long time Cubs fans alway say: wait until next year!

[gone_to_pa]

What is Serpent Seed doctrine?"



Answer: Serpent seed doctrine is a belief based on poor biblical interpretation and superstition. It is a primary doctrinal resource for those who want to use scripture to justify racial prejudice. Serpent seed doctrine is also closely related to other erroneous beliefs such as the Christian Identity movement, and the Kenite doctrine. Like many false beliefs, it has a built-in defense mechanism; that is, anyone who disagrees with it is accused of being a son of the serpent. One of the most unfortunate problems with the serpent seed doctrine is that is so heavily relies on prejudice and warped biblical interpretation that it can be very difficult to rationally discuss.

Simply stated, serpent seed doctrine teaches that the sin of Eve was not simple disobedience, but sexual contact with the serpent, and that Cain was the son of Eve and the devil. Cain’s descendants are, according to this idea, the sons of Satan, and this includes most any race or group that the serpent-seed-believer chooses to dislike. This idea is rooted in superstitious beliefs, and is particularly popular with white supremacists and anti-Semites; the Unification Church also supports this idea. Noted false prophets and false teachers such as Arnold Murray of Shepherd’s Chapel and William Branham espoused the idea. Although an idea should not be criticized when it is wrongly applied, it is appropriate to condemn an idea when it logically leads to sin. A philosophy that teaches that some races or people are universally Satanic, like the serpent seed doctrine, is one such philosophy.

Those who support serpent seed ideas cite many passages in the Bible as proof that their idea is correct. Almost without exception, these “proofs” require an interpretation that is totally inappropriate to the context of the passage. For example, Genesis 3:13 is often cited, with the claim that the word translated “beguiled” in the King James version really meant “seduced”. Context and scholarship would disagree. Proverbs 30:20 metaphorically compares eating and sexual immorality; this is greatly overstated by the serpent-seed believer as proof that the Fall was sexual. Other passages include Jude 1:14, and the parable of the tares in Matthew chapter 13. Those who believe in the serpent seed doctrine teach that Jesus’ description of the “children of the devil” in this parable is true in a biological sense; again, only one who is trying to force this belief into the Bible will see it this way, it is not naturally read out of scripture.

There are literally dozens of places in the Bible that this false idea has been wedged into; yet every single one requires a person to believe in the serpent seed idea beforehand. Only by reading a passage and saying, “if you assume that the serpent seed doctrine is true, then this means…” can a person support this false philosophy. For this reason, arguing against the serpent seed doctrine can be difficult. Those who believe it interpret scripture through a sort of “serpent seed lens”, and are not likely to accept other interpretations, no matter how well supported by context and scholarship.........to be con't

GTP

[gone_to_pa]

There are some basic questions and contradictions inherent to the serpent seed doctrine that can be used to demonstrate its lack of truth. For example, Galatians 3:28 clearly states that race and gender have no impact on our standing with God. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God wants everyone to be saved, not “everyone but the children of Cain.” Nowhere in scripture is anyone identified as a “Kenite,” or condemned based on being from Cain’s lineage. Never are we warned about such people by the New Testament writers. Also, there is the question of how or why such persons survived the flood. The doctrine supposes that original sin was sexual, but cannot explain why the whole remainder of the Bible lays out a worldview where the original sin was disobedience, not sexuality.

This philosophy is most unfortunate in that it leads directly and logically to two main problems. Racism is by far the worst; believing that certain races are irredeemable has no positive application. The only possible outcome of such a worldview is prejudice and bigotry. There is also a tendency to blow off critics of the serpent seed doctrine as being the very “Kenites” the philosophy believes in. Arnold Murray is particularly guilty of this abuse. Fortunately for believers, God has given us a resource in scripture that can show us the truth. We need only read it with unbiased and open eyes to find true wisdom.The problem is that the Serpent Seeders see everything through a clouded lense. Arnold Murray has done a magnificient job of brainwashing his following to a place where they are almost zombie like. They see every Scripture, every theology, every doctrine through the eyes of their leader. Mnay no longer have a mind of their own, yet claim they are independant thinkers. This is as far from the truth as it gets. All of his followers have his brand stamped right on their foreheads.
2 Pet 2:1-2 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom <u>the way of truth shall be evel spoken of."</u>
This group is much like the Mormons. They play a very innocent "we love Jesus just like you" facade, but on the inside they are like wolves; wolves in sheeps clothing. GTP/HBG

[getagrip]

"like us long time Cubs fans alway say"...

That explains EVERYTHING...

Go Sox! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[dodge]

Above copy and past job from "Gone_to_pa" came from:

http://www.gotquestions.org/serpent-seed.html

[watchman_2]

gtp,

Shame on you! Cut and paste without citing the source! HOW PATHETIC!

dodge,

Thanks for exposing this phoney, whom claims to have done research.

[godchild]

I don't know. Scooter was the one who brought up alcohol, not me:


skooter942000
Intermediate Member
Username: skooter942000

Post Number: 165
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 4.243.221.131
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:10 pm:

- On a Similar note:

If people partake of Strong Drink, then post on this board.
- What spirit will be in the Messages?
Don <*))><

My response:
godchild
Senior Member
Username: godchild

Post Number: 4326
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.215.252.21
Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 5:36 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you coming here drunk, don? Well, that explains all your scripture posting having nothing to do with the subjects.

As someone who hasn't drank alcohol in over 4 years, 4 years and 3 months, to be exact, I understand your problem. It can really mess up your head. My advice; detox and rehab. You'll be amazed at how clear your thoughts become in a really short time. Good luck!
-Vivian Hadden
-END QUOTE
I no longer have that problem, thanks be to God. Since he brought it up, I thought maybe he did.-

YOU ALL SHOULD LISTEN TO EVERYTHING WATCHMAN SAYS. HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF A PROPHET. SINCE AM'S FALSE PROPESY PROVED HIM A FALSE TEACHER, WATCHMAN TOOK OVER AND MADE HIS OWN. HE CAN'T PROVE IT TIL 2014-16, OF COURSE, BUT YOU'D BETTER START TAKING HIM SERIOUS. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[godchild]

ANOTHER THING THAT CASTS DOUBT ON SMYRNA AND WATCMAN'S CREDIBILITY IS THE FACT THEY ARE SCHMOOZING ONCE AGAIN WITH TRENTWOODARD (AKA JOHN CODY PARKER, DAIKON), WELL KNOWN NEO-NAZI HERE AT FACTNET ON THE DOCTRINES/BELIEFS/ETC. THREADS, AND THEY ARE STILL ALL IN AGREEMENT WITH EACH OTHER. TRENT EVEN MENTIONED THAT HE AND WATCHMAN DON'T AGREE WITH A LOT OF THINGS, BUT THEY AGREED ON THIS POINT DISCUSSED. HE'S ABI'S GOOD FRIEND TOO, THOUGH I'M NOT REAL SURE WHETHER SHE RECOGNISES HIM/HER OR NOT. BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER! It's no surprise to me, but they CLAIM not to be rascist.
-Vivian Hadden

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Watchman/woman,
do you even know what research is?

It isn't discarding other sources because they are not your own words.
One has to evaluate everything in the light of scripture with those who have gone before.

Arbatrary dismisal of a source based on disagreement is one effect of having blinders on and leaves one with a "no one knows anything" mentality."

Even commentary can express truth.

You denied that in a different thread though didn't you?
What other people say has no value is the way you put it across I believe.

"He didn't credit the source" does little if anything to discredit truth that has been quoted.

Nice try though.

</font>}

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** *
QUOTE: " YOU ALL SHOULD LISTEN TO EVERYTHING WATCHMAN SAYS. HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF A PROPHET. SINCE AM'S FALSE PROPESY PROVED HIM A FALSE TEACHER, WATCHMAN TOOK OVER AND MADE HIS OWN. HE CAN'T PROVE IT TIL 2014-16, OF COURSE, BUT YOU'D BETTER START TAKING HIM SERIOUS. END QUOTE
*********************************************** *</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

Vivian... first off you should not really make any comments on the dates which were discussed at The Fig Tree Cafe'. Because for one... you have little, if any knowledge or understanding of The Parable of The Fig Tree, in which Jesus CHrist OUR Lord Commanded all those that follow Him to LEARN, and to learn it is not an option for a 'true' and 'sincere' Christian, as it IS Written "NOW LEARN".</font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

Matthew 24:32
" NOW LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh; " [ Jeremiah 24 ]

Matthew 24:33
" So likewise ye, when ye SHALL SEE all these things, know that it [ it= being He] is near, even at the doors."

Matthew 24:34
" Verily I say unto you, THIS GENERATION shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. "</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

Vivian I perceive also that you have none understaning of "THIS GENERATION" which Christ is speaking of in these above verses, nor do you understand the 40, 70, or 120 year Biblical generation(s). So then why do you mock ? And indeed you do again lie. Listen....that can not be good for you Ms. Hadden, for The LORD in Heaven seeth all your works here under these SC Threads. And believe this also, IF your intentions are evil, He knows it. Do you not fear The LORD God ?</font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

Matthew 24:36
" But of that day and hour [ =meaning exact instant] knoweth no man, no, not the angels of Heaven, but My Father only. "</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

So then know and understand that NO man knoweth the exact instant of Christ's Return at The Second Advent, but those that know and understand DO KNOW the 'season', therefore the dates which they spoke of have much to do with The Parable of The Fig Tree. Vivian, you should not speak about things in which you have NO knowledge of, and well.. I mean none disrespect, but when you do that, mock them for that which they seek to better understand, you just become a prating fool, and no one should ever listen to a fool [Proverbs 10:8].

Abiyah</font>

[abiyah]

<font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">
godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Are you coming here drunk, don? Well, that explains all your scripture posting having nothing to do with the subjects.

As someone who hasn't drank alcohol in over 4 years, 4 years and 3 months, to be exact, I understand your problem. It can really mess up your head. My advice; detox and rehab. You'll be amazed at how clear your thoughts become in a really short time. Good luck! -Vivian Hadden
I NO LONGER HAVE THAT PROBLEM, thanks be to God. Since he brought it up, I thought maybe he did."
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>

WOW ! What are you rambling about in the above stated post Vivian ? Perhaps you wrote that which you did Ms. Hadden, accusing this brother, because you thought that Skooter was speaking about you with regard to 'strong drink' ? However, Skooter said, and I do quote "IF PEOPLE" and made no mention of any one name there at all, not even his own. He said "IF". I thought it odd that you would go into a whole testimonial with regard to yourself and your battle with alcohol ????? I'm guessing the reason you gave above for going into all that was not your true intention at all ? Hey, but oh well...we know who the accuser is. Now did you perhaps NOT READ The Scriptures that Skooter posted PRIOR to that comment with regard to 'strong drink'??? I suggest that you GO and READ again his post... Mark 2:21-22, it was a parable which Christ Taught with regard to "new wine and new bottles", and well you need understanding of that parable to understand better that which Skooter was saying, for it is the Teacings of Jesus Christ there in Mark 2. Ummmm.... Perhaps you missed God's Word in Skooter's post and that is why you said what you said in your above post ??? I know not for certain. Maybe all you saw in that post was 'strong drink', and thought of yourself, and felt the need to share... since you went into all that, overlooking The Word of God in skooter's post ? Oh yea.... And then you say "... that explains all your Scripture posting HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH the subjects." Hmmmmm.... posting Scripture having nothing to do with the subjects ??? Huh ??? What on earth are you talking about ??? Ironic that you Vivian would say that. </font><font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

Matthew 13:13 * Christ Speaking
" Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. "

Matthew 13:14
" And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive; "

Matthew 13:15
" For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes THEY HAVE closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. "</font></font></font>

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"></font>
Abiyah</font>

[watchman_2]

godchild wrote,

YOU ALL SHOULD LISTEN TO EVERYTHING WATCHMAN SAYS. HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF A PROPHET.

LOL How does this psycho come up with this stuff? Probably she is drinking again.

[watchman_2]

godchild further wrote,

ANOTHER THING THAT CASTS DOUBT ON SMYRNA AND WATCMAN'S CREDIBILITY IS THE FACT THEY ARE SCHMOOZING ONCE AGAIN WITH TRENTWOODARD (AKA JOHN CODY PARKER, DAIKON)

I'm sure that she has a lot of proof to back that claim up. LOL

godchild's posts go a long way toward establishing the credibility of those heroic cult fighters over at cultblunders. They must be proud of her over there.

[smyrna]

It's funny that Godchild, Franklin &amp; Co. whine and cry when I question their mental stability, yet they seem to try and do everything they can to convince me they are completely bonkers.

Unless this Trentward/Cody guy is going under some name I'm not aware of, I categorically deny any recent association with him.

I never has much exposure to him in the first place, as I remember him being on here when I first started posting to FactNet, yet he's been either gone or on other boards for the duration.

To ask for documentation from Godchild is usually fruitless. I'm STILL waiting for her to admit the SC actually does have a Church building in Gravette.

But I'm afraid the CB Kool-Aid party is just going to continue, and we'll be treated to more insane accusations without merit.

[watchman_2]

David,

You are nothing but a detractor to the truth of God's Word. You just can't help yourself and must resort to name calling. No different from godchild, franklin, and the rest of the cultblunder crowd.

Your commentary is meaningless because there is only hate in your words. Your points are meaningless because there is no biblical truth in them. Your existence here is meaningless because you have no credibility.

We have already been through all of this. If you don't agree with SCers, just leave and commune with your fellow detractors.

Go in peace.

[skooter942000]

Vivian,

= (Funny words)


I'd be careful here (VIVIAN).

- Don't start spreading rumors about me.


i do not partake of Strong Drink.

And i would never drink alcohol and post
on a CHRISTIAN board. = (No one should)



<font color="aa00aa"><font face="arial,helvetica"> - Why would you even reply here?</font></font>



The scriptures posted above the comment
(made me think of that message).



- thanks for taking the time to try and help
though. (I mean accuse)

"GOD" will handle it.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


satan is the ONE who twists peoples words.
- This we know.


Communion WINE (is all i ever ingest).
- Just so you know.




Don <*))><

[dodge]

"If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad."

-- Wisdom of Baphomet

[skooter942000]

<font color="0000ff">Jer 8:9
The wise [men] are ashamed,
they are dismayed and taken:
lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD;
and what wisdom [is] in them?




BTW - Chevy's Rule http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

</font>

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
More comedy huh Watchman?

No one reading your posts would consider that you are of any credibilty.

Name calling?
such is your venue.

Nice bait and switch ,though it didn't work.

When will you finally get it?

</font>}

[godchild]

scooter, When you threw in your little comment about people drinking alcohol and coming here, you were intimating that people who drink/drank are not credible. At the fig tree, there are numerous students who admit they were once drug abusers; drug addicted. How would they respond to you if you put that in one of your posts there? You know what your intent was. You deal with it. You without sin cast the first stone.

[godchild]

scooter, When you threw in your little comment about people drinking alcohol and coming here, you were intimating that people who drink/drank are not credible. At the fig tree, there are numerous students who admit they were once drug abusers; drug addicted. How would they respond to you if you put that in one of your posts there? You know what your intent was. You deal with it. You without sin cast the first stone.

[godchild]

scooter, When you threw in your little comment about people drinking alcohol and coming here, you were intimating that people who drink/drank are not credible. At the fig tree, there are numerous students who admit they were once drug abusers; drug addicted. How would they respond to you if you put that in one of your posts there? You know what your intent was. You deal with it. You without sin cast the first stone.

Who is more trustworthy? One willing to confess their sins (past) or those who hide their's behind self-righteousness. Anyone who can pluck on the keys can quote scripture, all the day long if they like. This is not evidence of righteousness, especially when most of the chosen scriptures are used to castigate others, and not to edify.

[angie0401]

This is not evidence of righteousness, especially when most of the chosen scriptures are used to castigate others, and not to edify.

When have you ever even <u>attempted</u> to edify ANYONE at Factnet? You lie, accuse, misrepresent, twist and mislead. But edify? Nahh.

You without sin cast the first stone.

[skooter942000]

Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 1:47 pm:

Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 1:54 pm:

Posted on Wednesday, January 24, 2007 - 1:59 pm:


- VIVIAN,
Press Enter - (ONE TIME)
- after each message.




-----------------------------------------
RE: (From vivian)
Anyone who can pluck on the keys can quote scripture,
all the day long if they like.

-------------------------------------------


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif


'BEAM'
'EYE'
"(YOU)"



Um, One PLUCK per message , (got http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif it)?

- You firsthttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif



BTW/

Did i accuse you? (or anyone)

Did you accuse me?



GOD knows,
- as can anyone who reads properly.



<font color="0000ff">Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses,
your heavenly Father will also forgive you:


Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses,
neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
</font>



"FATHER" knows my heart.
- (as HE does yours)





How many here pretend to be followers of CHRIST.
- yet walk contrary to HIM at every opportunity?

There are many who may disagree with certain things that i,
(or others believe).

- but they do so in a CHRIST-LIKE manner.

&amp; i do call them Brethren.



- Then there are the others.


BEWARE:

Of the ONES who CRY the LOUDEST.
- After drawing first blood.


It is honestly pretty sickening.
- Just being honest here.


- And the Verses always hit their MARK!!!
I.E. - (Intended Target) , - That's GOD'S WAY!!!



<font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">[GOD'S WAY]</font></font>

<font color="0000ff">
Lev 19:17 ¶ Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart:
thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour,
and not suffer sin upon him.


Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge
against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.
</font>


YAH'S WILL BE DONE HERE,
(in JESUS HOLY NAME).


<font color="ff0000">`Fin</font>


Don <*))><

[smyrna]

I wonder where Godchild's evidence of us recently conversing with "John Cody" is? Are we going to let this latest false accusation slide?

[angie0401]

smyrna said: I wonder where Godchild's evidence of us recently conversing with "John Cody" is? Are we going to let this latest false accusation slide?

Didn't you see where she had to apologize to someone for accusing them of being John Cody? I think it was daikon - somewhere on the doctrines thread. She's just spiraling out of control..

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Smyrna and Angie,

Quote:
Didn't you see where she had to apologize to someone for accusing them of being John Cody? I think it was daikon - somewhere on the doctrines thread. She's just spiraling out of control..

I found it a few days ago. It here at Factnet starting around January 19:
FACTNet Message Board » Religious Cults and Sects » Doctrine / Belief / Proofs / Religious Practices » Are Christians allowed to hate?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/27491.html?1169639056</font>

[yaqakallah]

If I'm not mistaken, you can find him under 2 similar names on the TT threads.

[smyrna]

Let's keep this thread alive, until Godchild produces evidence that I recently communicated with John Cody under any name, and if she accuses someone of being John Cody, she will have to prove that also.

She is a liar, and we MUST hold her to her insane accusations, all of them.

[stage_director]

Well, gee ... you all seemed to accept Abi's (or was it Angie's) explanation that you discuss these things privately. Perhaps GC and I do the same? ;-)