SCersonly threads

[watchman_2]

I thought that I would start this thread to discuss matters among ourselves -- free of interference from those that disagree with our beliefs.

Hopefully, those that do not share our beliefs will, at least, have the dignity and respect to not post here.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have a general problem that I would like to discuss with you and get your feedback.

As many of you know, I have a young daughter, age 7. Although she was Christened [not baptized] at home, she has never been to Church.

As you folks know, the people in all non-Christian religions will get their chance at salvation during the millennium when Satan is released a short season before judgment.

To me, this means that the majority of people headed to the Lake of Fire, based solely on their flesh dispensation existence, will be Christians that learn and forward false doctrine, like the rapture. These people, claiming to be Christians, don't know enough to overcome Satan.

Hence, in my head, it is better to keep her out of church, since I haven't found one that teaches God's Word correctly. I would rather she not experience any of the good things about church than to risk getting indoctrinated in false teachings.

So, I would like to understand how my fellow SCers handle this matter with your children. She is at the age now that she is asking questions about it.

Thank you!

[angie0401]

watchman,
As you know, I attend a Baptist church. There are many wonderful, God-loving people there and I am a better person for having attended there. I have learned much from them, but they do know that we don't believe exactly like they do.
For me and my family, the positives have far outweighed the negatives. However, I think we must all do as we feel led to do. For us, we were led to this church and have been very blessed there.
If you feel led to let her attend a local church, you can still teach her the truth. My children know that we celebrate Passover NOT easter; Jesus wasn't born on December 25 and that there will be no rapture. We are still loved and accepted at our church and very involved. My son just finished performing music at a multi-denominational youth gathering, I teach Sunday School and my husband and I are head of the ordination committee (baptisms & the Lord's Supper). Also, we have many opportunities for service by going on mission trips, donating to help missionaries, serving the poor, ministering to the lost in our community and many other such opportunities.

Like I said, we have been blessed by our attendance there - but I believe that is because we went where God led US.

[smyrna]

Watchman,

I don't think it is that easy to judge people that belong to Churches that teach false doctrines as being those headed for the Lake of Fire.

Because even though they are involved with Churches that teach false doctrines, their good works outweigh much of their beliefs. It's God's call of course, but look at what the Churches have done over the centuries.

I can speak volumes as to why I think Christianity greatly suffered due to the Protestant movement. Not that the Catholic Church did not need reform. It served no good purpose to separate and from other Churches that would eventually be at odds with themselves, much less with Catholicism.

I hope you can follow this analogy, but it is like our currency going off the gold standard.

Their is no real base, unless you want to use the Nicene Creed as the binder that holds all Christians together as one body, though so divided in so many ways.

In other words, once a group separated themselves from the only unified Christian body at the time, and now I'm going back to the split between the eastern and western Church, it opened the gates of hell for later generations, who are now forced to pick and choose or in many cases are "assigned" by parents or other forces, to certain denominations.

In a positive sense, this can be good, for anyone who takes religion seriously will spend a great deal of time in study, trying to discern the truth.

But I say it must have been so much easier in earlier times, where there was only one ecclesiastical body, that was governed by Bishops whose spiritual lineage can be traced back to the Apostles that Jesus personally chose.

Among them Peter, who Jesus personally gave the keys to heaven and the authority to "bind and loose" became the first father, i.e. Pope in a succession of holders of those keys, to a Church that Christ Himself prophesied that "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

[watchman_2]

angie,

Thank you so much for your testimony. I am happy to hear that you do benefit so much from your local church.

I have an older brother that became a baptist minister when I was still a young kid. Hence, I have a long list of issues with Baptists. I realize that not all Baptist churches are the same eventhough they may all consider themselves Baptists.

Of course, I want my daughter to receive the benefits of a church without the burden of false teachings.

[watchman_2]

smyrna,

I don't judge individual people. We know that everyone gets one chance. Many that preach/teach false theology [like Jerry Fallwell] will be held accountable and should know better.

That is why I made the general statement that a majority of those judged to the Lake of Fire, based upon their flesh existence, will be those claiming to be Christians. It would be difficult for many to argue that they did not have a fair chance while in the flesh.

I would never argue that there is not good resulting from Churches throughout the centuries. I also agree that the Protestant split has led to a mess as well. Denominationalism has damaged the religion.

I like your analogy to going off the gold standard. One can readily see what that action has done to the U.S. dollar.

Yes, denominationalism has resulted in cheap, feel-good, and false sects like rapture, tongues, and born-agains. Many of these churches lose their first love and, instead, devote their resources to differentiating themselves from and demeaning others.

Thankfully, God is fair.

[aviyah]

Watchman,

The way I understand it, no one will be judged or blotted out until the end of the Lord's Day. During the third millenium, ANYONE who has been misled will be taught the truth and then EVERYONE will have the opportunity to make an informed decision of whether or not to love and follow Father.

I am in a similar predicament myself. My children want to attend a local church that teaches things I don't necessarily believe to be true of God's word. For now they are going because my husband is in favor of the idea. I have to be flexible and keep peace in the household.

I am confident that Father will direct the lives of my children just as he clearly directs my own life. If my children are being harmfully misled, I am confident that Father will intervene.

Also I figure I was raised in similar churches myself and I am still capable of sorting out the truth. At least the children are learning core Bible stories in Sunday School and such. When my children come home from church with booklets they received in Sunday School we have an opportunity to discuss what may or may not be correct about this particular church's interpretation of the Bible.

I have attended the church myself during special programs for the kids such as Christmas presentations. This particular church's main focus seems to be missionary work in foreign countries. Even at a Christmas service the sermon was lacking in any serious study of the scriptures. In fact most of the time was spent reading letters from the missionary families the church was supporting. That's all well and good but personally I don't find it spiritually fulfilling.

During the "sermons" the kids are down stairs in Sunday School learning the stories of Noah, Jacob, Daniel etc. I can't see any harm in that. But I put my foot down when it comes to Easter. I am firm about them not attending Easter services and I take the opportunity to explain to them the importance of acknowledging Passover instead.

I am sure Father will sort out this dilemma for you if you ask. Pray to Father to give you opportunities to teach your child correctly. Then when opportunities arise, and they will, pray that Father will bless you with the knowledge to speak of God's word correctly.

Most of what children learn is acquired from their parents. If your daughter sees you regularly studying God's word and living by it, chances are the importance of God's word will be ingrained in her.

God Bless, AviYAH

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Here's wishing you an enjoyable experience with our Lord Jesus.
I pray that each of you has a wonderful time learning of Him and that He touches your hearts in a way that you would not have expected.

Dave

</font>}

[watchman_2]

terluvire,

Thank you for the information. I already know that your boy is a fine young man. You must be very proud of him.

It must have been very difficult for him to hear false teachings day in and day out at school and still have the maturity to refrain from arguing. That is a credit to your efforts in raising him.

Well, my daughter is very gullible and has tendency to believe her teachers ahead of her dad. It takes a lot of effort to deprogram her of the nonsense she learns at public school.

So, I am fearful that, if she goes to Sunday school at a false teaching church, she will accept that teaching ahead of the Truth that her daddy tells her.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Watchman,

You know your daughter better than anyone else.

If you feel it would hurt her spiritual growth, then I wouldn't send her. Like I said, I never sent my son to church after the age of 2.

If God is leading you to not send her, then don't. I'm sure you will follow your heart to where God is leading you.

The only reason I sent my son to Christian schools, was because I didn't like what the public schools were doing. It was either, (for me anyway) to send him to a Christian school or homeschool.

At times it was difficult for him to keep his mouth shut..lol I always told him to use discernment, plant a seed when led, but that he was there for an education not theology.

Lately though, he has been more vocal at school, not during school though, but after school, at a prayer club he joined. He gets angry at some of the bonds they are trying to put on people; such as: certain music beats are evil, there is no singing in heaven, certain colors are evil...ect He can't stand those who try to act very pious yet don't care enough about what God actually says.

His principal even entered him into a category, at a convention, for preaching. My son, at school, did a sermon on "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me". He brought forward God's real truth concerning that verse and it was highly received at school.

Sorry to be bragging on him. I'm just a very proud parent. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

You're a good father and I'm sure you will make the right decision.

If I were in your shoes and dealing with the same thing, I probably would not send her to church. I would soley teach her God's word at home period.

Some might not realize how serious this is, but we are talking about one's eternal soul. That is serious buisness. The children God places in our care are the most serious responsiblities we will ever have.

I know you will do well. You have a heart for Christ and a love for truth. With the example you set for her, along with teaching the truth of God's word, she will be fine.

Besides, the first churches were not in a congregated building but within one's home. I do believe that parents are to be the true ministers in their home. Utlimately, the spiritual responsibilities lies on the parents, not the church we send them to. We are to check out everything they are taught and guide them, whether in school, church, or by their friends.

God bless,
Ter</font>

(Message edited by admin on May 20, 2007)

[watchman_2]

aviyah,

I empathize with your situation. It must be difficult for you at times know what that church teaches. Fortunately, I did not have such a problem with my wife.

I know that my daughter will not be held accountable until she knows the truth. But, God forbid that she turns out and acts like many of the fundamentalist fools that pollute these threads.

In any event, any failure in her religious training would be my fault. I will bear the sin for any inability to instruct her properly.

Yes, it is possible to sort the truth out. And, I agree that God leads those whom He so chooses to lead to the truth. My concern is whether the process of gaining some base truths will be more damage than good compared to the fundamentalist drivel taught.

Yes, I think that the answer is already obvious to me. And, prayer will hopefully confirm or deny to me this course of direction.

Thank you for sharing!

[smyrna]

When my stepdaughter joined some independent Church, (World Harvest)I thought it was a good thing. I'm Catholic, but I don't force my beliefs on anyone.

After a while, the youth group she joined there imposed on her time, which also was good I thought, because it kept her involved in positive things.

But I also asked her from time to time what they taught about the Bible. Well, it was the usual stuff, including the rapture doctrine.

I told her not only about why I didn't think it was sound doctrine, but also about the other fairy tales most of these churches teach.

But I also told her that she should use her own mind and conscience, and of course prayer to consider these things, and weigh them against her association with this Church.

They were all nice kids, they all worked very hard helping the Katrina victims that came up from New Orleans.

Well, about six months after she joined the Church, she left, and told me it was because she didn't share their beliefs, and were too insistent on taking up so much of her time.

She has attended Mass with me, and also she goes to a Methodist Church with one of her friends.

Of course, she's watched the Chapel, but like most teenagers, can't sit througb an entire program. She usually watches the Q &amp; A seesions when she does watch.

It's all good with me, and I take time to talk to her every once in a while about Church, and she's doing really well.

I think it is best to just try and give your thoughts, and "let the chips fall where they may."

Of course, I have also introduced her to this forum. She thinks Franklin is "really goofy"
and Godchild is "mean."

"Wow, she sounds like she really hates ya'll!" She told me after reading a few of her posts.

I asked her to pay attention to what was being said above all the "noise."

[aviyah]

Smyrna,

What do Catholics believe in regards to the second coming of Christ? It just happens that I was wondering this right before I logged on.

God Bless, AviYAH

[smyrna]

Aviyah,

"What do Catholics believe in regards to the second coming of Christ? It just happens that I was wondering this right before I logged on."

Catholics are very cautious about eschatology. They were burned somewhat near the year 1000 AD, by similiar end of the world fervor that so affected fundamentalists as we approached 2000.

However, the Late JP II did comment that he felt that we were in the latter days spoken of by the prophets.

They do not believe in the rapture, so this of course places those who do in a minority in the Christian world.

They believe there will be a reign of Christ on earth, but do not accept 1000 years as the exact time span, and claim that it is symbolic of a long span of time.

If this is not enough for you, I'll answer further questions.

[aviyah]

Smyrna,

What is the Catholic take on creation?

If you are Catholic, how and why did you become interested in the Sheperd's Chapel theology?

God Bless, AviYAH

[smyrna]

Aviyah,

Very good question. The Catholic Church does not, contrary to what some have posted here, take the Adam and Eve story literally. Yes, some Catholic writings are worded as if they do. However, when the subject is a precise explanation of the Adam and Eve story, the Church sees it more as symbolic and prophetic.

In addition, there is nothing dogmatic due to this position. In other words, the Church leaves open the historical aspect of the early Genesis narratives to further research.

Some recent reports claim that the Church is leaning towards evolution, at least aportions of the theory. I cannot comment too much about that as I have yet to study the issue in depth.

I became interested in SC theology since Pastor Murray was the only TV preacher that actually commented on UFOs, which of coruse includes the Nephilim i.e fallen angels. I was researching UFOs, and had done so for many years. I also was deeply involved in Biblical studies as well as other ancient texts, Judaic, Christian and otherwise.

The Sunday school myths I was taught in school just didn't do it for me.

I certainly don't consider Murray infallible, yet I was fascinated by his lectures, and sicne I already had a backround in Biblical studies, I didn't just take what he said at face value. I did check him out, and I've been a student ever since.

Unlike what some detractors envision, I have little problem with any clashing of doctrines between the SC and the Catholic Church.

In fact, I find more similarities than differences. Most of what outsiders think about the Catholic Church is wrong. One similarity I find on the net, is that the Catholic Church has its share of whacko detractors who spew falsehoods and outrageous conspriracy theories, and other nonsense as well.
People will believe the silliest things (as you can see here with the detractors of the SC) when their logic is clouded by hatred and malice.
Nothing good comes from hatred, and the detractors let their hate even cause them to do even more immoral things, like lying and other deceptive behaviors.
Catholic detractors do the same damn things!

[aviyah]

Smyrna,

OK, thanks for the info. It's not Catholics in general which I am leary of but the Catholic church itself. Do you know what I mean? How dare anyone presume that atonement from sin can only be accessed through a priest?

I understand that the molestation incidents are the fault of a few sick priests. But what about the fact that higher authorities knew what was happening and tried to quietly sweep it under the rug? Child molestation is not just amoral, it's a crime. These church officials had to have known other children would be hurt due to their actions.

And what about the fact that the Catholic Church was ultimately responsible for replacing Passover with Easter?

Actually, any time I have asked a Catholic acquaintance the questions I asked you, they didn't have any answers. There are two different Catholics I work with which went to Catholic schools and attended Catholic church all their lives. When I asked either of them about Christ's second coming they both said this subject never really came up in their experiences with the Catholic church.

I understand that Catholic churches do alot of charitable works for society. As a matter of fact, I work for a Catholic hospital. Believe me, no one is turned away and everyone is given equal care, even drug addicts that frequent emergency rooms regularly as a means of obtaining free narcotics.

It seems to me that the Anti-Christ might represent himself as either a leader of Catholicism or Judaism. I'm just speculating but either of these would seem like the logical choice in my mind. Both are considered by many to be the religious authority. Both seem to be hung up on alot of religious legalities. And Anti-Christ is supposed to come off as some sort of charitable hero right?

I hope my opinion doesn't offend you. That is not my intention.

I agree that Arnold Murray is not infallible. Stage and others are trying to make Sheperd's Chapel students appear cultic by throwing out false accusations and goading them into defending the guy. Oh well, there's got to be some learning of scriptures here...amongst all the arguing.

Gotta go for now. Good night.

God Bless, AviYAH

[smyrna]

Aviyah,

Priests accept confession for those who confess to them. They are seen (and trained) as spiritual directors, and as extensions of the Apostles,Peter of course being one of them.

Therefore, according to Catholic doctrine, what St. Peter, as well as the other Apostles are able to do comes only by the power of Christ. Christ said to Peter He would give him the keys to the Kingdom, and whatever Peter bound on earth shall be bound in heaven, and vice versa.

Jesus intended His Church to continue after Peter's death, of course, and so Apostolic succession exists with Christ's blessing. Thus, priests forgive sins by the power of the Holy Spirit that comes through them. They themselves have no such power.

Priests, being fallible human beings, falter, and fail in their vocations at times. But that is not the fault of the teachings of the Church.

In regard to the scandal Church heirarchy did indeed drop the ball, but are paying for it, in some cases with their own vocations, as Cardinal Law in Boston.

The Church is cooperating with civil authorities, bearing the costs of litigation and doing their best to attend to the victims of abuse by priests.

With that being said, philosophically in context with end time tribulationS (not THE tribulation)there obviously is a satanic assault on the Churches, not just the Catholic Church.

Just look how the detractors, who claim to be Christians, attack other Churches! And they do so by lying, and other mischief.They also deny Biblical truth, by claiming satan does not exist, or that Moses did not write the Torah, among other things.

Do you think God causes them to attack others like they do? You may not, but the detractors think so, as they even claimed that God hands out evil instructions to satan!(see Cultbusters "Let's talk About Satan thread for proof)

Back to the Catholic Church: It should be of no surprise that catholics don't spend too much time thinking about the Second Coming. Catholic theology focuses on the here and now, not dreaming about the future. Eschatology is not totally ignored, but it is not the focal point, as we find in Fundamentalist circles.

Catholic theology therefore is more in harmony with mainstream Protestant Churches, who also do not preach any rapture doctrines, and aren't running around pointing fingers at the latest Antichrist suspect.

No, antichrist will be much more than a leader of Catholics or Jews. He will have to convince the whole world, not just Catholics and Jews, that he is Christ returned.

The only way he can do that is to be clearly a supernatural entity, that comes from heaven, as the two angels said the only way Jesus could come back would be in the same way he ascended. Antichrist is an imposter of Christ.
(Acts 1:10)

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
The problem there Smyrna is that scripture tells us that the anti-Christ will rise up from among the people not come in the clouds as Christ will.

You have no support for satan coming in the clouds.It just deosn't say that.

It does say that he will decieve many with his miracles and seeming solutions to the worlds problems.
No appearing in the sky though.
</font>}

[smyrna]

Revelation 12:7, Ezekiel 28:17.

Though it would be good news for Christians to realize that satan himself will not be cast before the kings of the earth, no one would ever accept his claim to be God, Christ returned, unless he mimics the appearance of Christ as prophesied by the angels at His ascension.

So you may disagree, but I'll never waiver this belief.

You can wait around on a mountain or whatever, waiting for your space trip. I'll be here working in the fields.

Hey, maybe Frankie will pick you up, Dave.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Smyrna:You can wait around on a mountain or whatever, waiting for your space trip.

Dave: A bit presumtuos don't you think?
Assuming that I just sit here waiting for the rapture (like the Millerites did) is as rediculous a statement as Watchman's woman being a man.

I tell everyone I can about the salvation that is to be found in Christ's shed Blood.
Blood that was shed to save us from the sin nature that we inherited when we where born.

That and the sin we commit throughout our lives.

Now what was it you where saying?

Satan is coming in the clouds?
No Biblical truth to that statement at all.
Nor to the statement that asserts I sit around waiting for the rapture.

As I have stated so very many times (although for your own purposes you ignore it and refuse to acknowledge that I said it ,like your buddy watchman does) the rapture ,though I believe in it, doesn't make a bit of differance to me at all.

I am not looking for it.
I am following Christ as he leads me and am spreading the good news that God gave His own Son to die in our place that we might be saved.

He came not to condemn the world but to seek and to save that which was lost.

That is where I place my confidence.
In the living Son of the One true God.

So there!

Get it right.

</font>}

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Addendom,
I tried to stop that post (#45) when I realised what thread this was.
It didn't stop it.

I am trying to honor the request not to post debate here but was too late to do anything about it.

I will do my best to refrain from now on.
Sorry for intruding.
I assure you that it was not intentional.

Yup.I'm human.

</font>}

[godchild]

Shepherd's Chapel on WCGV 24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any other night owls flip past Shepherd's Chapel on WCGV 24 in the early morning hours? The guy is a complete nut case. He reminds me of Grandpa Simpson on The Simpsons.

For some reason, WJJA carries him too (later in the day). I have no clue why either station gives him any airtime. You'd think they'd be running infomercials instead (well, I guess they are infomercials of a sort; since I assume Shepherd's Chapel pays for the timeslots).
__________________
-Paul


PaulKTF
#2 03-25-2007, 02:52 PM
John L
Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Muskego, WI. USA
Posts: 490
Rep Power: 5



The reason WCGV-24 carries him is to fill some airtime during those hours so that they don't have a reason to shut down. They should add him on Monday mornings so that WCGV-24 doesn't go off the air at all.

Afterall 24 should be 24 all the time.

Why does WCGV-24 shut down during the wee hours from late Sunday night to early Monday morning?

Perhaps it has to do with transmitter maintenance? Don't they have a backup transmitter like WVTV-18? Is this an FCC rule that stations need to do weekly maintenance or something?

Cause I know WVTV-18 switches to another transmitter I believe on Tuesday mornings because the Stereo indicator lamp is off.

Regarding the other Milwaukee channels at times their OTA signal is off but they are still on over cable. Obviously the deliver their signal direct to the cable compnaies via fiber optic. Stations like ch. 4 and ch. 6 is received OTA by cable are very suspectible to interference when atmospheric conditions prevail, like WTMJ-4 being interfered with another channel 4 in North Carolina. I mean it does happen at times being interfered with another TV station on the same channel from another part of the country known as E-skip.

Going back to the original topic in regards to "Shepards Chapel" it is to me also a waste of air space. But then I should not complain because someone in Kentucky wants to air a similar program like that on my public access TV station I program for the city of Muskego in which I am allowing because I have a lot of room on my program schedule to fill.

-John L.
Muskego, WI.

[angie0401]

MY MY, aren't you getting desparate to find someone, anyone at all, that will say something negative about SC and Pastor Murray?

Link to forum that Vivian quoted in her post:
www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-6932.html (http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-6932.html)
Going to some obscure Milwaukee forum just to look for this stuff borders on all-out, obsession doesn't it?

Vivian, did you also go see who is Milwaukee's "Hottest Female Newsperson"? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/archive/index.php/f-33.html (http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/archive/index.php/f-33.html)

Every time I read one of these silly posts by you, Vivian, I think of that old Styx song:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif "I've got too much time on my hands and it's ticking away with my sanity." http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[aviyah]

Another nonsensicle, incoherent, unintelligible post compliments of godchild.

Can no one have a lucid discussion without this one rearing her ugly head?

God Bless, AviYAH

[smyrna]

"Any other night owls flip past Shepherd's Chapel on WCGV 24 in the early morning hours? The guy is a complete nut case. He reminds me of Grandpa Simpson on The Simpsons."

Smyrna: Anybody that holds Grandpa Simpson, some cartoon character, up as some sort of standard, makes me wonder how much time he has studied the Bible as opposed compared to the time he spends watching silly cartoons.

You really can't take a guy like that seriously. Notice that the poster doesn't tell us why he thinks the way he does, he's just spouting off garbage, which is why Godchild relates to him.

It's also obvious the guy is an idiot:

"For some reason, WJJA carries him too (later in the day). I have no clue why either station gives him any airtime."

I wish I could have replied to that guy. I would have said: "Hey buddy, how about the SC pays the station, as is the normal way people get air time." What a moron.

But to Godchild, morons and idiots are her heroes and role models.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">HI All,

I have great news! I was at my son's awards ceremony at school tonight and he won many awards!

He made Honor Roll, Worship team award, No detention award..lol, and the best of all......The Christian Character Award!!

I couldn't be prouder of him. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

See godchild, I guess my mongrel son did pretty well, don't you think?</font>

[angie0401]

Tell him congratulations, ter! I know you are so proud, but I am not the least bit surprised at him winning these awards. Those awards are a testimony not only to HIS abilities and character, but YOURS also. Keep up the awesome work!

[watchman_2]

Congratulations as well!

[ezekiel_37]

Yes, Congratulations Ter.

Any question my 7 year old asks, I try to answer.

the fake Jesus comes first.
if you pinch yourself, and it hurts, then Jesus is not here.
praying in underwater gurble sounds is silly. (that is how she understands, charismatic tongues)

If she asks or it is relevant to the days activities, I tell here (at her level of course)
For example, she is a child, and she doesn't need to know (yet) about the sexuality in the garden. She knows it wasn't an apple though. But as she grows both in maturity and in Christ, her curiosity shall lead to the deeper truths.

YaHaVeH leads.

c

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Thanks Angie, Watchman and Ezekiel!

I think we are all doing a great job with our kids.

Like the rest of you, any question my son had, I did my best to answer. At times, I had to tell him that I'm not sure or don't know. But I must say, he has never believed anything just because someone told him. At times it would drive me nuts..lol Like telling him the stove is hot, he had to see for himself..lol

Now, even moreso, he doesn't take anyone's word as truth. He needs to see it for himself. For that I am very thankful. He is a very independent thinker.</font> http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[dodge]

It's really neat the way you Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel adherents prepare your children for the world we live in. Have you warned them about Scooby Doo? I think it's important for Christians to understand some of the hidden messages in that cartoon series. "Scooby Doo," is a term that was adopted by the homosexual community in the late 1970s that is a Sodamite slang for "feces roll." There is no easy way of saying this, but a "feces roll" is when a group of naked homosexual "men" get together in a public park, lay out a large plastic mat, poop all over it, and roll around in it until they have orgasms or are busted by the police. Some homosexuals save their feces in plastic bags and keep them in the refrigerator for weeks to prepare for such an event.

One doesn't have to look too far to see why the homosexual community was so quick in adopting "Scooby Doo." The cartoon is chock full of decadence. It really doesn't take a theologian to see that each character in the cartoon series represents a perverse member of society. There is "Shaggy," a skinny junkie who is always sleepy, hungry, and paranoid. If you look closely enough, you can actually see the needle marks on his arms where he would inject a liquified form of "scooby snacks" which were really nothing more than a mixture of cocain and heroin. Shaggy would even feed the dog (which is G-o-d spelled backwards and an occult way of referring to Satan) these cocktails as well. At times, Shaggy would be so high, he would even think the dog was talking to him.

Another character in the series, Thelma, the little bull-dyke, represents the feminist movement. Hollywood makes everyone's job easier here because they never try to hide the fact that feminists are nothing more than ugly-looking women with glasses who are always reading books and bossing people around.

The character of Fred is a cartoon depiction of a typical homosexual male. His choice of clothing alone is enough to raise the eyebrows of any Christian parent. Further evidence exists in his lack of interest in the character of Daphney, a female prostitute along for the ride who never has anything significant to offer the group other than a harlot's smile and, sadly, unclothed cartoon legs that cause arousal in young boys even before they reach puberty.

So, as "True Christians," you SCRs should keep your godly children away from anything that has to do with Scooby Doo.

From your Godly friends at Landover Baptist Church.

[wls]

Think your funny?

[stage_director]

LOL Dodge, you do realize they'll probably never see Scooby the same ever again? Shame on you ...
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[dodge]

Yes, Stage Director, Scooby Doo must be avoided by all True Christians. Also, all Christian parents must understand that a child will never learn a lesson unless they are beaten on their naked bottoms until the imprint of the rugged cross is plainly visible on both cheeks. As it says in Proverbs 23:13-14, "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

The reason the child's bottom must be naked is because a clothed bottom is less humiliating and less painful for the wicked child. In fact, the child may feel no pain at all if they are cunning enough to sin while wearing heavy jeans or khaki pants. A youngster who can sit comfortably after a Godly beating will think they have outsmarted you and tend to repeat their misdeed and feel a license to move on to more hardcore sins, like rape and blasphemy.

If a child is able to sit down within three days without ointment or a bag of frozen vegetables after their punishment, you have failed as a Christian parent. A good spanking should be traumatic and something the child will remember well into adulthood.

I would suggest using a heavy object, a ruler is too light, a belt-buckle may cause bleeding and suspicion from liberal Democrat schoolteachers if you are careless enough to allow your child to attend a public school. I use a heavy King James 1611 authentic cowhide leather bound Bible.

Find a comfortable place to sit and ask you child to come over and have a seat on your lap. Act as if there is nothing amiss. I suggest that you smile or wink at your child. If it is your daughter, say "Come on over here and sit on daddy's lap, sweetheart. I want to talk to my little angel for a minute." If it is your son, I suggest you say, "Hey there, sonny -- how's Dad's little quarterback? Come on over here and sit on my lap for a minute and let's talk about Jesus."

[dodge]

(continued)

As soon as you have the child on your lap, clench his hands so that he can't move. Immediately flip the child over so that his stomach is across your knees. If the child struggles, give him a good whack across the back of his head and tell him to shut up. Whisper in his ear, "You're going to get a whole lot worse from Jesus, you rebellious, hateful, little sissy!"

This is the point where the child may act like a little demon and start screaming. Be prepared for this wicked outburst. Have an athletic sock in your back pocket and cram it into the child's mouth. Stuff it back until you get to the stripes at the top of the socks. Don't worry: if the child is smart enough to remember to breathe through their nose, they won't suffocate.

Ready your Bible, and lift it high above your head with one hand. Keep the child secure with your free hand. I've found that the most effective way of securing the child for a beating is to clench the back of his neck like a turkey. If they are still struggling, I suggest you raise your voice and say something like, "I'll give you something to squirm over, you little devil!"

Pull down their pants and underwear to reveal their pink little hiney. Make sure both cheeks are fully exposed. To ensure that the child is aware of their misdeed, and they never forget it, it is often best to smack the child across the bottom with the Bible as you speak out their misdeed. Each word would be one healthy whack across their naked hind quarters. For example: "You (whack!) didn't (whack!)eat (whack!) your (whack!) brussel (whack!) sprouts (whack!) you (whack!) little (whack!) demon (whack!)"

Then you must rebuke the child in the sweet name of Jesus, toss them aside like a used Kleenex and let them roll on the floor to contemplate their sinful nature. After about an hour, when the child has calmed down, have him sit on your lap again and read him some scripture verses about Hell. I recommend Matthew 13:41-42 from the same Bible you used to beat him with. Let the child know that the punishment he received today is nothing compared to the eternal punishment of Hell where Jesus burns and cooks all the bad little boys and girls who don't do what their daddy tells them.

In His service, from your friends at Landover Baptist Church.

[dodge]

For those of you with no sense of humor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire

[stage_director]

lol Awww, Dodge ... This is the same God who admonishes parents not to provoke their children to wrath ... to me it's a given you're not to humiliate your children, nor abuse them because you can.

I think this "rod" was probably akin to a hickory switch, not to mention this spoke to a society where children were cherished ... and parents actually parented. I seriously doubt the Hebrew children of that day and age were the disciplinary problems today's society seems to foster, or that parents let it reach that point.

One of the things I really hate is when I hear hear an adult address their children with words and in a tone they'd never dream of using with a friend or co-worker ... as if they're possessions they can do with as they like. I believe that if you can't respect the dignity of those you hold the nearest and dearest, it's a given that you won't really respect anyone else ... and you'll pass on that way of thinking to your children.

I think I may have run across that family. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

[stage_director]

QUOTE
For those of you with no sense of humor:
END QUOTE

lol So do you come with a disclaimer now? Smart ... ;-)

[skooter942000]

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude,
and said unto them, Hear, and understand:



Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man;
=====> but that which cometh out of the mouth, <====
=====> this defileth a man. <=====

[skooter942000]

[The Book of Proverbs]



6:16
These six things doth the LORD hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:



These Six things (The LORD DOES HATE).


(From what i understand about these verses)
(IF you add the seventh to any of the other SIX),
......it becomes an abomination (IN HIS EYES).





6:17
(#1)...A proud look,
(#2).....a lying tongue,
(#3).......and hands that shed innocent blood,

6:18
(#4)...An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
(#5).....feet that be swift in running to mischief,

6:19
(#6)......A false witness that speaketh lies,
(#7)...........and he that soweth discord among brethren.



Think of ones BODY/or SELF.

...Eyes
.....Tongue
.......Hands
.........Heart
......Feet
....(Then the whole Man , Himself)


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/talker.gif

[stage_director]

Now, take that and apply it to youself and most of the Shep Chap'lers ... and you'll have come a long way. That's the problem when you buy into a theology that that claims you judged and justified before the cross. You don't know when your own fruit consists of stinkberries.

[smyrna]

S_D wrote:
"That's the problem when you buy into a theology that that claims you judged and justified before the cross."

Oh, before I start, was ENOCH judged and justified before the Cross? Was Abraham? Was Moses?

Sorry S_D, I'm surprised Watchman or any of the others have yet to show how ridiculous your "assessment" is.

We, like any other Christians are "justified" only by the grace, the mercy God gives us. Simply because we may have overcome in the world that was, against satan, did not give us a reprieve from being born into this age with all other souls. And in this existence,we are just as prone to be drawn into sin, save only our faith and our strength which is in Christ.

And where, pray tell, did your soul come from? Do you know? Souls are NOT created, they are a part of God. Only our flesh is created. Souls are eternal, UNTIL God decides if that soul be saved or will be sentenced to the "second" death.

A similar dynamic is in place in the reference to satan being loosed after the Millenium. ONLY after that time, will we be jduged by God, not by you or anyone else.

If that doesn't fit you belief system, then too bad. Keep whining about it.

Your stupid notion about SC students claiming to be above other in any way in reagrd to temptation and sin is merely that, stupid.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Great post Smyrna!!</font>

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Oh, before I start, was ENOCH judged and justified before the Cross? Was Abraham? Was Moses?
END QUOTE

No, none of them were. They had faith that the promise made would be fulfilled, but they have not been judged.

Souls are given by God, but when they were created is not written ... we don't know whether it was spontanious, or a zillion years before we became physical beings.

(Message edited by stage_director on June 11, 2007)

[watchman_2]

smyrna wrote:
*****
Sorry S_D, I'm surprised Watchman or any of the others have yet to show how ridiculous your "assessment" is.
*****

I have been guilty of skipping over most of stage_director's posts because, other than vile comments, she falls into the godchild category of no-credibility postings. She is just an ordinary biblically-illiterate detractor -- one not necessarily worth the time to respond to.

But, since she did raise the point and it has, in deed, received my attention, I will add to syrna's response.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
</font></font>
It is not that difficult to understand -- even stage_director should be able to see it.

There are a group of people that are referred to as the 'predestined', 'elect', 'saints', etc in the Bible that are separate from the rest in that God knew them before this second age [foreknow].

These souls were predestined to salvation. Hence, God 'conforms them to the image of the Son' [makes them a believer].

How does God do this?

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
</font></font>
Saul, transformed into Apostle Paul, is the prime Biblical example of this intercession.

What does justifieth mean?

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
</font></font>
Well, it means that God has already judged the 'elect'.

So, when stage_director writes:
*****
<font size="-1">That's the problem when you buy into a theology that that claims you judged and justified before the cross. You don't know when your own fruit consists of stinkberries.</font>
*****

one can see that she is ignorant of God's Truth. The true stinkberry is stage_director's fruit.

[smyrna]

Thanks Watchman,

I was never in doubt that you could also show how inpet S_D is. I suppose she will call it "flaming", but so be it.

Of course now that you laid that out for her, I'm sure she will claim that Pastor Murray teaches that only him and his students fit those descriptions, but that's what we have come to expect. And that's why I brought it up!

Just to fight off such nonsense, only God can make that call.

[stage_director]

Rom 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to THEM THAT LOVE GOD, to them who are the CALLED ACCORDING TO [HIS] PURPOSE.

What was foreordained was God's purpose, and what was predestined is that those who are called, and repent and believe ... are conformed to the image of his son and are saved.

Rom 8:27
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

A search of the heart would be irrelevant if it were already a done deal ... the condition of the heart would be a moot point for the "predestined" as you interpret the word ...

[smyrna]

S_D has done nothing whatsoever to address the subject at hand.
Just leave it alone, Stage Director. You appear aboslutely ridiculous. If you can actually read your own post, you tell others to ignore their "interpretations" and just accept your own. Oh brother....

[watchman_2]

stage_director

Of course, you misinterpret that scripture as well. Let's look at it so that you can be edified.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. </font></font>

First, you need to know whom the 'we' this scripture refers to. That is the central theme carried throughout the entire Book of Romans.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
</font></font>
There it is -- plain and simple. The book is written to the people God has called to be saints. That is the 'we' of Rom. 8:28.

Does Rom 8:28 cover all that claim to love God? The answer is NO!

We already know that the outcome for some that claim to love God is not good. God is against 'rapture' preachers as stated in Eze. 13:18-23. There is a special woe for those whom claim to love Christ, but are deceived by Satan in the endtimes as given in Mat. 24:19.

Christ, upon his return, rejects many that claim to love and serve him as stated in Mat. 7:21-23. So, the Bible is quite clear that it won't be good for ALL that claim to love God and Christ.

As one can see from Rom. 8:28, it is those that 'are called' for which all things work for the good. It is not all that profess to be Christians -- but, only those that God and Christ have called themselves.

They are none other than the 'saints', 'elect', 'predestinated', etc. -- the ones that God had foreknowledge of before the foundation [katabole] of this earth age.

Yes, God judged them in the first age, God conforms them to Christ in this age, and God glorifies them here and now. They were entitled to salvation from the first earth age. The rest are reserved onto judgment in this age.

[stage_director]

There is no first age. Romans states children are born having done neither good, nor evil.

Rom 9:11
11 (For [the children] BEING NOT YET BORN, NEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, but of him that calleth;)

"Not of works" ... that means you aren't appointed to some greater destiny because you fought some battle in a prior life, either.

[watchman_2]

stage director,

You wrote:
*****
There is no first age. Romans states children are born having done neither good, nor evil.
*****

Let's examine the scriptures so that you can be edified.

First, proof of the first age -

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being <u>overflowed</u> with water, perished:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
</font></font>
Yes, there are those that are willingly ignorant. That includes you and your cultblundering friends.

Yes, there was a world age that was 'overflowed'. This was not Noah's flood because all in that age 'perished'. Noah, his family, the Kenites, and the Gentiles all survived Noah's flood.

What is the purpose of this age? It is laid out in these scriptures. It is reserved onto judgment of the 'ungodly men'.

One should also make the differentiation made by the word 'ungodly'. It infers there are other men -- the 'godly' ones. This purpose was laid out prior to the 6 days of creation, thereby also inferring there were already godly and ungodly men prior to this age.

Confirmation of men judged prior to this age is presented in scripture.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. </font></font>

Yes, there was a book of life written prior to the foundation of the world. God's Word so declares it. Only those that have their names in it shall not wonder after Satan. [Do you know that Satan comes first?]

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. </font></font>

There you have it again. John gives acknowledgement that he was loved before this earth age [foundation = katabole in the Greek].

This next one is clearly dispositive of life before this 2nd age existence.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: </font></font>

Here is one linking the foreordained to prior to the foundation of the world age again.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, </font></font>

The proof is overwhelming that you are wrong. I'll expect your acknowledgment that you are wrong. Hopefully, you are a Christian and can demonstrate it.

[stage_director]

Watchman, all I need to do is look at the verse I posted. There's no requirement that I piece together verses to support an explanation because it's already quite clear on it's own.

God is eternal and not limited by time. His words are then, now and forever.

Christ is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Does this mean to you that he wasn't sacrificed upon the cross 2000 years ago?

Your proof is overwhelming to you, not to me ...and you haven't proven a thing if I remain unconvinced.

[smyrna]

Watchman has proven many things, among them that Stage Dirctor is willingly ignorant. In her quest to remian (in her mind) infallible, she will willingly deny many aspects of Scripture.

I don't think Watchman is really all that interested in "convincing" you, S_D. Pardon me, Watchman, if I am wrong about that.

Because it has been clear since you came here that your only agenda is discredtiing the SC, at any cost. Sadly, part of the cost is a great deal of your credibility.

Do we really have to bring up all the allegations you have made that you have yet to provide any verification, documentation, or anything that would lend veracity to them?

[watchman_2]

stage_director,

Rom. 9:11 has absolutely nothing to do with proving your claim that there was no first age. In fact, it is futher proof of my points.

<font color="0000ff"><font size="-1">Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
</font></font>
This parenthetical scripture is explaining that God calls people according to 'election' [that judgment before the foundation of the world].

Birth is only a function of this second age. So, of course, the souls, born innocent in the flesh, would have no recollection of being justified by God before the foundation of the world. Their works, either good or evil, have no bearing on whether God calleth them.

The 'call' from God is preordained.

[stage_director]

It is preordained that there will be a call from God. If God's words are then, now and forever ... also his works are then, now and forever.

[watchman_2]

stage_director,

The 'call' from God is not for all -- only for the 'elect', 'saints', 'predestined', 'preordained', 'justified', etc., as declared in the Word. So, unless one fits into this category based upon their works in the first age, one will not receive the 'call'.

As the scriptures plainly point out, the 'works' that cannot lead to salvation are those in this flesh age. That is why God "conforms" the 'elect' to Christ in this age. This way, God can ensure their salvation.

The rest have free will in that this age was created for these 'ungodly' [were not judged favorably in the first age] men. God did this in effort to save more souls.

Christ was not the Messiah in the first age. He occupied the mercy seat. Christ was only to be the sacrificial lamb for all sin in this age.

So, when you claim that everything was the same in the previous age as this age, you once again demonstrate your Biblical-illiteracy -- in fact, outright negligence in interpretation.

[smyrna]

Aviayah worte:

"Smyrna,
What do Catholics believe in regards to the second coming of Christ? It just happens that I was wondering this right before I logged on."

Catholics do not believe in the rapture. They believe Jesus will return to rule His Kingdom for the millenium, but do not necessarily believe that millenium will be exactly one thousand years.

Many Catholic theologians do not accept the idea of one Antichrist, but there are some who do.

It is best to read the coverage of antichrist in the catholic encyclopedia. It sheds light on what Catholic theology has to say about the second coming.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01559a.htm

Also, for more specific info about the millenium

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10307a.htm

[aviyah]

Rage Director,

Watchman's previous posts regarding the elect were not a piecing together of verses. They were more like a barrage of verses which all say the same thing, that there was a previous earth age and that the elect were judged by God at that time.

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

[stage_director]

Watchman, imo you're simply repeating the logic told to you by Murray concerning these things ... and you and those like you have too much faith in him to actually examine the bible independent of his voice in your ear. I know you don't see that, but it's the truth. You'll never really understand what God is saying unless and until you stop letting Murray mediate between you and him.

[smyrna]

Watchman and Aviyah,

Trying to reason with S_D is getting more like trying to reason with Franklin every day.

[stage_director]

Of course you can't reason with me ... you're operating by Murray's flawed logic.

[watchman_2]

I think it is real plain to see for the objective viewer that stage_director is part of the 'willingly ignorant' referenced in 2 Pet. 3:5. She is on the record claiming there was no first age, which is easily refuted by scripture.

Once she admits that there was a first age, her entire Sunday School religion and Bible understanding is undermined. In such event, she might as well be a newborn in diapers [figuratively speaking].

It is the domino effect. She would have to start from scratch and learn the truth of the Bible. Of course, there are all of these hate-filled unverified allegations regarding SC and PM that she is responsible for issuing for so many years. She would have a whole lot of repenting to do and apologies to make if she switched to the Biblical truth.

So, like most of the ridiculous detractors that come here, she opts for the face-saving option. It is better to do the ostrich [stick her head in the sand -- figuratively], deny any truth that opposes her position, employ distraction tactics when she is proven wrong, never admit error in theology, and stick to her beliefs even if it lands her in hell then it is to put God's Truth ahead of religion, repent for bearing false witness, acknowledge her errant theology, and show the world she is a true Christian.

She is just another idol-worshipper -- just like her cultblundering friends.

[smyrna]

Excellent post Watchman.

And let us not forget, part of what Stage Director describes as "flawed logic" on Murray's part is the claim that Ruth was an Israelite, which can be proven by SCRIPTURE. Just type in Ruth Israelte on Google and see how many concur with this and why.

By the way, "logic" is NOT the most reliable way to approach the widsom associated with the Bible. Just because something seems "logical" to someone, does not automatically give that something veracity.

Stage Director is woefully inept. Is there some mold where they crank out Godchild models? It seems "logical" Stage Director was cast in the same. All that is missing is some vile innuendos she can launch at us.

[stage_director]

Watchman, ostrich don't really stick their heads in the sand when they sense danger. As is the case of most of what you learned from Murray ... it's just a fable ...

[smyrna]

"Watchman, ostrich don't really stick their heads in the sand when they sense danger. As is the case of most of what you learned from Murray ... it's just a fable "...

Typical Stage Director drivel. Don't address the issues, just heckle and ignore the fact she is wrong.

[oneway]

"just heckle and ignore the
fact she is wrong."

Ah Ha! So you do admit that you're a heckler, lol!
I knew it!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif