Bickering Cult Fanatics [Archive]

smyrna

05-28-2007, 12:33 AM

To the rest of the world, outside the whacko space freak mentality of Frankie's world, the SC is NOT a cult.

Frankie DOES have a cult:

He is the "charismatic" "Captain Franklin."

He doesn't allow outsiders into the SC threads, and also the silly space threads at CB.

Whenever anyone disagrees with Captain Franklin or his cult members, they delete their posts and ban them. It is a lie that people are ALWAYS and only thrown off for being rude. Just try it yourself and see!

Cultbusters is a closed society. They claim they are diverse, and disagree, yeah, maybe when they are playing space games. But try and prove them wrong about their views on the Bible, especially
if you even allude to ANYTHING the SC teaches, and wham! You're banned.

They even deleted SCRIPTURE verses from posts that they disagreed with!

Arron, a member there, even said right here at FactNet yesterday,that the Admin at CB told him not to post any longer to the Let's talk About Satan thread, because he didn't agree with two other members beliefs!

That IS a cult, and since they deny the obvious, it matters not what they have to say. Actions speak louder than words.

Like I said, try signing onto CB and post stuff that you knew they'll disagree with at CB. You'll see how long you last!

Just ask them this:

"Franklin, I heard you said Genesis 3:15 is talking about crushing snake eggs. Can you explain this? Can you post a link to any Church or organization that teaches this?"

See how long you last.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

godchild

05-28-2007, 01:19 AM

A snake lays "eggs", do do! A serpent is a snake. The bible doesn't say the snake layed a half-human, half-snake demon child http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.giflike am/sc teaches. Did your half-human come out of Eve in a shell, do-do? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifNeither does the bible say Adam and Eve had group sex with the serpent in the garden either, like am/sc teaches. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifHow hard is that to understand? Oh, I forgot. Your brain is dead, along with your heart and soul.

godchild

05-28-2007, 01:26 AM

Why don't the scers go ahead and name some organizations that teach what am/sc does; like stormfront, soldiers of the cross, garner ted's, and other rascist, neo-nazi orgs? I am sure they can name more; they are their brothers and sisters writing under different usernames on other forums? Why don't you deny it, M (Is that for monkey?), peter, cephas, peter cephas and whatever other names they've all used to try to get back onto a website they hate (cultbusters)to name a few?

watchman_2

05-28-2007, 01:41 AM

godchild wrote:
*****
Why don't the scers go ahead and name some organizations that teach what am/sc does
*****

Short memory godchild??

Terluvire posted Big Mitch's post [No. 152] over at cultblunders that identified a prominent group -- the Jews!

LOL Godchild is such an idiot!

smyrna

05-28-2007, 02:01 AM

Who the hell is "M"

You know, if you group up all the unintelligible stuff that Godchild has posted this evening so far, and the racist and vile comments she's made,you really have to wonder if she's on booze and pills.

Even Xman asked her to clarify what she's trying to say, and she can't even stay on topic, and thinks she's on one thread when she's actually on another.

Now she's addressing some mysterious "M."

Anyway,she's clearly running out of material, as she's now rehashing old rhetorical questions, which have been addressed over and over on these threads.

But when you're whacked out on whatever, or just plain suffering from a bad memory and very poor attempts at reason, what do we expect? More of it, I guess.

Just for the record, I don't hate Cultbusters. Any site that provides the laughs that site does I can't possibly hate.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

aviyah

05-28-2007, 02:48 AM

Ungodly child,

*********************************************** ***
"Why don't the scers go ahead and name some organizations that teach what am/sc does" (Ungodly child, 05/27/07)
*********************************************** ***

How about the publishers of the KJV Companion Bible? Read the 198 Appendixes.

Ooops, my bad. Maybe you can go to the public library and ask someone to read them FOR you.

God Bless, AviYAH

aviyah

05-28-2007, 03:04 AM

An innocent question is posed...

*********************************************** ***
"Is this how you guys see yourselves doing God's work?" (ihave sinned, 05/27/07)
*********************************************** ***

True to form, the manic persona Franklin is quick to attack...

*********************************************** ***
CULTS

THE PURPOSE OF FACTNET.

MAKE THE PUBLIC AWARE OF MIND CONTROL CULTS. ESPECIALLY RACIST NAZI CULTS!

THAT IS GOD'S WORK.

GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT? (Franklin, 05/27/07)
*********************************************** ***

This is one righteous mission you are on Frank.

FYI Franklin: Sheperd's Chapel is not named among Factnet's list of cult groups.

God Bless, AviYAH

smyrna

05-28-2007, 04:20 AM

Hey Frankie, maybe you'd like to prove I was Bruno. The last time you accused anyone of being Bruno, it was Ter.

So make up your mind.

You also contradict yourself:

"When asked what he (Bruno) believed all of a sudden he believed everything SC believes, except maybe the serpent seed doctrine."

Hey, I read a few posts on that thread Frankie, and you are lying. The guy just asked questions, and you cultists dodged them like you Dodge questions here.

Sorry Frankie, in case you haven't noticed, I DO believe in the Serpent Seed doctrine.

Oh, and by the way, you clowns can't really hide that thread. I get updates every few days, if anything particularly funny, weird, whatever someone wants to share with me.

Some of those posts are sent to me from time to time, so we see how you folks operate, just like you do here.

But it's usually the same old stuff: whining, rumor mongering, crying like a bunch of babies.

You can say we aren't Christians all you want. God, and not you, will make that judgment.

You might be the almighty authority Captain Franklin over there, but here you are just some whack job that thinks Genesis 3:15 is talking about snake eggs, a racist who uses the term "lily white" and "whitey," a guy who is such a coward he won't challenge a fellow CBer who denies satan exists and that Moses didn't write the Torah.

franklin

05-28-2007, 04:34 AM

No, ter mentioned bruno, I asked if she was then I found out it was you. Can't wiggle yourself out from being caught with that lie. You were BUSTED big time!

No smyrna, let's get the facts straight here and now. You, writing as bruno on cultbusters, did all of the dodging. You didn't just come out and tell us you were smyrna. You kept playing a pretend you were a non SCer game with us using the name "Bruno". Many know bruno is you. Many know this to be true.

Whine, whine, whine away Smyrna. You got caught again lying, you were banned from cultbusters again. Now you are lying about the whole sordid episode that you caused with your usual deception.

You are right. Not I, but God will judge you for your actions.

smyrna

05-28-2007, 04:40 AM

Sorry Frankie,

That doesn't look like proof to me. So far just this week, you have accused me of being gag and sgng
whoever gag is I don't know. Now I'm Bruno.

I'm not whining, I'm having a great time.

Let's see who got "banned" from Cultbusters "again."

Read my new thread, Guess Who?

terluvire

05-28-2007, 04:40 AM

No Franklin, I didn't mention Bruno first. It was you.

You asked me if I were Bruno, or said something to the affect that I was Bruno.

I told you I wasn't and you wouldn't believe me.

I can assure, we have no idea who Bruno is. And, actually, I wish Bruno would come here and talk to us. It would sure beat talking to you, gc, and SD. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

franklin

05-28-2007, 05:07 AM

terluvire, find the initial discussion you and I had about bruno and we will know the real truth. No paraphrasing allowed.

And as you well know, bruno is talking to us. bruno is smyrna.

terluvire

05-28-2007, 05:12 AM

Franklin,

Sorry, but you should offer proof first, for you said:
No, ter mentioned bruno, I asked if she was then I found out it was you.

You accused first, so go get the proof.

Thanks

hillbillygirl

05-28-2007, 05:19 AM

Who the hell is Big Mitch?? LOL

smyrna

05-28-2007, 05:33 AM

Hillbillygirl,

You must have been over at CB.

Big Mitch is also known as Gone_to_pa here.

He's a real whack job, that's why he is over at CB.

He posts here once in a while. He's a real candidate for anger management therapy.

angie0401

05-28-2007, 05:33 AM

Here, franklin, I found it for you:

www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=406063#POST406063 (http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=406063#POST406063)

franklin
Senior Member
Username: franklin

Post Number: 5076
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.53.143.128
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 3:40 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm certainly not going to waste my time studying your cult's heresy that you spew. I know God's true word. I will continue to study God's word. Not man's. Shame on you that you do not.

Are you "bruno"?

I also put the DIRECT link to the thread so you can see I copied it exactly AS IS.

LIAR! BLASPHEMER! HERETIC! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif - now don't get your panties in a bunch, I don't really think you're a heretic or blasphemer; I was just funning ya! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

smyrna

05-28-2007, 05:40 AM

Angie,

Thanks for the proof Frankie didn't know what he was talking about as usual. Ok, he was LYING, that sounds better!

How many SCers do you think have access to the SC thread at CB? I'd say about fifty, from what I can tell.

So he can keep guessing who is who over there. Most don't post,they just read, laugh, and send copies to other students of the really sicko stuff.

Hey, time to brag about those page views again, Glen/Franklin/Gavin/FoxyLoxy/LittleChick?

aviyah

05-28-2007, 06:26 AM

Franklin,

You misinterpret my mission...

*********************************************** ***
"aviyah. That's quite a mission you are on. Trying to convince thw world that Eve had sex with satan". (Franklin, 05/27/07)
*********************************************** ***

...my mission is to help you recognize that you don't know how to spell or write in complete sentences and therefore have NO authority to correct ANYONE.

God Bless, AviYAH

franklin

05-28-2007, 07:34 AM

(continuation)

There is a group of people who believe like Hitler did that the JEWS were the spawn of satan. That Adam and Eve had sex with satan, Cain was satan and Eve's son, that the descendants of Cain (satan's spawn) survived the great flood somehow either by the flood only being local to Noah's area or stowing away on the Ark with the beasts. These anti semitic Neo Nazis believe these Kenites pretend to be the real Jews who are really the "Aryans" like Hitler called them, the Germanic peoples of Northern Europe. Can you hear a "Sieg Heil" in all of this? I and many, many other Christians and Jews perceive the Shepherd Chapel "students" that way.

Anyone should clearly be able to see that this is totally, radically different than the minor doctrinal differences between the Pentecostals and the Baptists. Or between the Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox. They have completely rewritten the Bible to futher their antisemitic and racist agenda. And if you are who you claim to be the I think you should be able to clearly to see that too.

Mormons claim to be Christians also but they believe that God was once a man who became perfect and then a God. And that each one of them can become a God and create their own planet and people. Now where is that in the Christian Bible? In Christ's teachings? No they are not Christians and the Shepherd Chapel and the other racist Neo Nazi groups out there are NOT Christians either.

We have told the Shepherd Chapel bunch that if they would STOP claiming to be Christian then they would no longer be considered heretics. But they insist to propagandize the illusion and impression that you have seemed to bought into after a week of studying. That they are just another branch of Christianity. That is what they want the world to believe. satan is very clever in how he tries to influence us to become racist, hateful and discriminatory against our fellow humans.

You came in the middle of the Star Date One storyline where we are bringing peace to a planet caught up in a Civil War started by the Nazi like believers in the Shepherds Chapel heresy. Similar to World War 2 caused by hatred of the Jews and non white races. Before this mission we battled the cultic word of faith forces that denied all inhabitants of a different planet medical services and allowed them to suffer and die because their faith wasn't strong enough for God to heal them. Next we are going to bust up an atheist cult on a different planet.

Cultbusters is NOT just about exposing Shepherd's Chapel, Word of Faith, Branch Davidians or any other cult exclusively. But about any mind control cult out there enslaving people physically and spiritually. Religious cults as well as other organizational cults.

If you truly want to be a part of the public cult awareness campaign then it does take a lot of study, hard work, a one on one relationship with the Holy Spirit help us to discern God's true word among the many lies of satan out there in the world.

There have been a few who join Cultbusters as members who we have welcomed and then they reveal their true intentions of being here. To proselytize the cult they belong to. As long as they are civil about it, not what goes on at factnet, then they are free to remain and discuss their beliefs in a respectful way. Many have been banned from here for not adhering to that rule. So they are back over at factnet, the cesspool of all forums, being their hateful and cultic selves.

I hope this gives you better insight. If you are sincere in your purpose for being here I would suggest you create a thread here concerning the Branch Davidians for open discussion.

smyrna

05-28-2007, 07:53 AM

No, I am Smyrna

No, I am Smyrna.

Why would you have to ask if you say you have proof?

Now, in front of God and everyone else:

Where is a Church that teaches that Genesis 3:15
is talking about crushing snake eggs?

franklin

05-28-2007, 08:05 AM

You did not ask a direct question.

I did not ask you whether or not you are smyrna or not. I asked you

Are you bruno? Yes or No. ________

Are you saygoodnightgracie? Yes or No. ________

While you're squirming I'll add another direct question.

Are you getagrip? Yes or no _______

watchman_2

05-28-2007, 02:39 PM

franklin,

Which other screen names do you use at cultbusters and here at Factnet?

watchman_2

05-28-2007, 03:06 PM

franklin wrote:
*****
There are two valid interpretations of Genesis 3:15. Literal and figurative.

Jews believe that God is putting a curse on the serpent and all snakes who descend from the serpent.

Christians believe that God is putting the curse on satan and those who follow him spiritually by foretelling the coming of Christ.

SCers wrongly interpret it to mean that Eve had sex with satan.
*****

WHAT A JOKE!

Franklin is on the record claiming that Gen. 3:15 is about Christ stomping snake eggs. I don't see that in his interpretations discourse.

He does not accurately state the Jewish position. The Jews believed in the literal offspring of Satan as well. Big Mitch covered that in a post at cultblunders which was copied here by terluvire.

As for the Christian position, he is very confused. He claims to be a Christian, but, stated it was an egg stomping event by Christ. He has never admitted that he was wrong and changed his view.

Nonetheless, his above-stated Christian position is easily refuted/defeated by the scripture itself. The word 'seed', in figurative usage, is only 'posterity'. There is no room for spiritual following in the interpretation. If so, franklin would be an 'Eve worshipper' in that the word 'seed' also applies to the woman.

If no sex took place between Satan and the woman, then why would God promise to MULTIPLY her pregnancy [Gen. 3:16] and why would Adam name her Eve because she WAS the mother of all living [Gen. 3:20]?

Obviously, the woman is pregnant, yet Adam did not have sex with her until Gen. 4:1. There is no mystery here. God tells us that Satan did it. See Gen. 3:14.

franklin

05-28-2007, 03:07 PM

smyrna:

You did not answer a direct question.

I did not ask you whether or not you are smyrna or not. I asked you

Are you bruno? Yes or No. ________

Are you saygoodnightgracie? Yes or No. ________

While you're squirming I'll add another direct question.

Are you getagrip? Yes or no _______

franklin

05-28-2007, 04:22 PM

Then you are a liar and I, the cultbuster administrator and the factnet moderator have evidence to prove you just lied. You are bruno and saygoodnightgracie. You're busted! You lie!

smyrna

05-28-2007, 04:28 PM

You can declare all you want, but I still don't see any proof. You got evidence? Then show it, don't be a Stage Director and claim you have it but never show it!

You are bluffing!

So if you want to think I'm lying, hey, that's cool Frankie.
Plus, you forgot that you said I'm also getagrip.

Please be more accurate with your phony allegations.

Can you give us just one Church or denomination that teaches Genesis 3:15 is talking about snake eggs?

Please, for the latter question, no twisting or perverting God's Word.

franklin

05-28-2007, 05:45 PM

What is the Jewish interpretation of Genesis 3:15?

smyrna

05-28-2007, 05:53 PM

Answering a question with a question is silly Frankie.

Can you give us just one Church or denomination that teaches Genesis 3:15 is talking about snake eggs?

franklin

05-28-2007, 06:00 PM

The Jewish interpretation of Genesis 3:15.

ihavesinned

05-28-2007, 06:43 PM

And on the eighth day , god created the internet, and he saw that it was good, and he spoke, yea, that his children should congregate there and bicker and call each other names. Yea, so it was written, and so it was done, and it was very good.

And later that afternoon, he wasn't really doing much, so he decided to make up a prize for the best internet whiner. That whosever bicker the best shall inherit bragging rights and a nice trophy, with a little keyboard on top.

That evening after a few beers, he accidentally created the duckbilled platypus, but figured "hey, what the hell, I'm god, I can do what I want" so he left it alone. He thought it would be a good goof.

And everybody said "amen".

All this is true, and I defy any of you to prove me wrong.

smyrna

05-28-2007, 09:50 PM

"All this is true, and I defy any of you to prove me wrong."

The Internet is not thousands of years old. Case closed. Continue to defy, yes, carry on sir.

angie0401

05-29-2007, 12:23 AM

franklin
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin

Post Number: 127
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 67.9.11.135
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:22 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you are a liar and I, the cultbuster administrator and the factnet moderator have evidence to prove you just lied. You are bruno and saygoodnightgracie. You're busted! You lie!

Come on, Glenn! I've seen both sgng & smyrna and they look NOTHING alike. Sheesh!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

franklin

05-29-2007, 01:56 AM

First of all my name is franklin. Address me as franklin. First you say my name is Jeff, now Glenn. Just call me franklin. And I will call you angie. If I wish for you to have any personal information about me then I will give it to you.

Second of all, it is no wonder you have seen sgng who pretends to be a non SCer but who is. sgng is getagrip. A banned factnet cyberstalker reincarnated as sgng. bruno, sgng and smyrna share identical isp addresses. Wonder how that happened? No brainer. They are either all the same or use the same computer.

So I will continue to bring us back on topic.

Eve is the mother of all living. Adam is the father of Cain. You and Rev. Al Sharpton share the same common ancestors which are Adam and Eve. You might hate the thought of that but it's true. The Bible says so. Genesis 3:20. I will have the last laugh when you stand before God, look up into his face and see that GOD IS BLACK! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

angie0401

05-29-2007, 03:37 AM

franklin said:
Just call me franklin. And I will call you angie.
You rarely call me "angie" - you have called me mangie, mangie angie, "lily white", heretic, blasphemer, stalker, bully, ... so I think I'll call you whatever I darn well please, Glenn. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

franklin said:
I will have the last laugh when you stand before God, look up into his face and see that GOD IS BLACK!
Well, first of all - I wouldn't care if God was black, white or purple. Second - there is no race in the spiritual body, did you forget that?

I just don't know why you can't get it through your thick head that I don't CARE what race ANYONE is, who their parents are or where they are from. I have black friends, white friends, Asian friends, Indian friends, Native American friends and bi-racial friends; friends from Los Angeles, friends from Texas, friends from Virginia, friends from New York City and friends from Naples; I have friends from Canada, friends from Israel, friends from Lebanon, friends from South America, friends from England and friends from Africa. I have rich friends, poor friends and middle-class friends. I have short friends, tall friends and average height friends; I have skinny friends, overweight friends and average size friends. SO WHAT? WHO CARES what race they are, where they are from or how much money they have? WHO CARES about someone's physical appearance? I ONLY care about who they are in their HEARTS and SOULS. When will you realize that YOU are the only one on here obsessed with RACE?

franklin

05-29-2007, 03:57 AM

No. You and the SCERs are the only ones here who are obsessed with race. Have you told all of your non lilly white friends who don't blush what you believe? of course not. They'd cut you off in a heartbeat. Expecting you to burn a cross on their front yard.

Try it. Tell them that you think Germany is Judah! That God created the Adamic/Aryan race special. Pure. The Master Race. Supermen! Ubermenschen! Tell them that you are the ELECT! The chosen. That you will dwell in the mansions of the inner sanctums of heaven while they suffer in the ghettos of the outer sanctum of heaven.

Oh but there's a problem with all of that. Because according to arnie they in all of their non lilly whiteness don't have souls. According to arnie God only gave a soul to Adam. So if the mud peoples ain't got no souls then they won't be in heaven. Just like the beasts. No afterlife.

Tell your non lilly white friends the truth about what you believe. You know what their reaction will be.

BLASPHEMY! RACISM!

smyrna

05-29-2007, 04:12 AM

"A banned factnet cyberstalker reincarnated as sgng. bruno, sgng and smyrna share identical isp addresses."

Smyrna: You are a real living, steaming, pile of biological refuse Frankie. You are a liar beyond liars.

You can never prove that, because it is NOT true.
You have had plenty of opportunities to prove it, but like Stage Director, you never offer any proof.

angie0401

05-29-2007, 04:14 AM

My friends DO know what I believe - many of them are ALSO SC students. However, none of the trash you just wrote is what I believe. As a matter of fact, one of my black friends THANKED ME for telling him that the trash about blacks coming from the "curse" (you know - the same thing YOU endorsed via onehumanrace) is a bunch of hogwash. He also told me to tell you and Vivian that you are crazy if you think I am racist.

ALL of my friends not only have souls, theirs shine so brightly that not even the darkness of your hate can touch me or them.

I've told you before that it doesn't matter how loud you yell it, it doesn't make it true. Now quit stomping your feet, Glenn, and try to have a grown-up conversation.

aviyah

05-29-2007, 04:17 AM

*********************************************** ***
"In heaven we will not have these bodies. There will not be any "Adamic" lilly white, ruddy complected Aryans in heaven. Just souls. Not ethnics, not race. Just souls. So racial heritage means nothing. Means nothing to God. And if it means nothing to God, it should mean NOTHING TO YOU!...God does not care if we are white, black or yellow skinned. So why should YOU?" (Franklin, 05/04/04)
*********************************************** ***

*********************************************** ***
I will have the last laugh when you stand before God, look up into his face and see that GOD IS BLACK! (Franklin, 05/28/07)
*********************************************** ***

ENOUGH SAID.

}}
God Bless, AviYAH

smyrna

05-29-2007, 04:18 AM

Great post angie, Glen is an idiot, no news there.

franklin

05-29-2007, 04:28 AM

You can deny it all you want but that is what arnie preaches. Good to see you are rejecting his heresy afterall!

smyrna

05-29-2007, 04:32 AM

Name one source where it claims Genesis 3:15 is talking about snake eggs. I don't see any CBers coming to your defense, Frankie.

aviyah

05-29-2007, 04:34 AM

*********************************************** ***
"...you can't get it through your thick head that I don't CARE what race ANYONE is" (Angie to Franklin, 05/28/07)
*********************************************** ***

Because Angie, IGNORANCE IS BLISS!

God Bless, AviYAH

franklin

05-29-2007, 04:45 AM

Of course you do not care. You're white. Youse a gonna to heaven massuh! Us'm mud peoples won't be there to clutter up the scenery. Yesum Massuh Angie.

aviyah

05-29-2007, 05:32 AM

You know what Franklin,

Why don't you stop with this whole negro slave role? You were never a slave and it shows your ignorance and intolerance for others.

Everyone in this nation is afforded the birthright of Jacob. You think all of the lily white Aryans owe you something. You would be much better off getting up off your lazy carcass and making your own way rather than spending all of your time on the computer whining and sniveling and screaming Nazi Racist at everyone.

God Bless, AviYAH

angie0401

05-29-2007, 05:50 AM

glennfranklin said:
Of course you do not care. You're white. Youse a gonna to heaven massuh! Us'm mud peoples won't be there to clutter up the scenery. Yesum Massuh Angie.

Glenn,
So now you know that I'm white? You have NO IDEA what my race is and your arrogance in assuming I am white is laughable. I think you are just one hate-filled little man, but that is YOUR problem, not mine.

You must have missed the rest of my post. Here's the whole point of my post in one sentence, so you can follow along:

I ONLY care about who they are in their HEARTS and SOULS.

aviyah

05-29-2007, 06:03 AM

*********************************************** ***
"I am asking you now Smyrna, in front of God and everyone who reads this.

Are you bruno? Yes or No.

Are you saygoodnightgracie? Yes or No.

(Franklin, 05/28/07)
*********************************************** ***

Moments later...

*********************************************** ***
No, I am Smyrna

No, I am Smyrna.

(Smyrna, 05/28/07)
*********************************************** ***

Moments later...

*********************************************** ***
You did not answer a direct question.

I did not ask you whether or not you are smyrna or not. I asked you

Are you bruno? Yes or No. ________

Are you saygoodnightgracie? Yes or No. ________

(Franklin, 05/28/07)
*********************************************** ***

Which part of N-O was unclear Frank?

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

franklin

05-29-2007, 11:44 AM

When the word NO is used to tell a lie it is never clear. Only as clear as mud like the mud you sling at us mud peoples. Smyrna is bruno, saygoodnightgracie OR he knows who they are because they have all used the same computer. If he'd just fess up then maybe we'd have a little more respect for his occasional honesty.

watchman_2

05-29-2007, 02:47 PM

franklin,

You have no right to ask questions about screen names unless you are willing to divulge all of your other names as well?

You were asked this question and you did not provide the answer. What other screen names do you use here at Factnet and at cultbusters?

Are you going to provide the answer or should the world evaluate you as a disingenuine fool?

smyrna

05-29-2007, 02:50 PM

"Smyrna is bruno, saygoodnightgracie OR he knows who they are"...

Now there is proof that you have no proof.

Maybe you are feeling guilty because somebody got banned there that shouldn't have been.

Oh wait, that can't be true, since you people are so fair, right? Tell that to Arron, who was told not to post on certain threads because others disagreed with him.

And tell that to the person who had their posts edited by taking SCRIPTURE out of them! You know that's true Frankie, because YOU probably were the guy who did it.

Cultists in sheep's clothing, dirty sheep's clothing too.

david_munson

05-29-2007, 04:57 PM

Smyrna,
"Arron, a member there, even said right here at FactNet yesterday,that the Admin at CB told him not to post any longer to the Let's talk About Satan thread, because he didn't agree with two other members beliefs."
---
You do not know the reason.
It is much more than you say.
So, you pass along a lie about what actually happened with no knowledge of the truth of the matter.
(I will not get into details here about this)

There is much more to this than your erroneous explanation but you obviously use these half truths to bolster your hatred of "certain" CB members.

This that I say is a fact that I have observed for many months now.

That is not to say that I agree with some of the treatment that Sc'ers have recieved but it is a two way street and "some" Sc'ers are as guilty of this behaviour as "some" Cb'ers are.
I should add "some" that post here that are not believers to.

Facts are good to have "if" you do not use them in an abusive fashion.
}

smyrna

05-29-2007, 05:50 PM

"You do not know the reason.
It is much more than you say.
So, you pass along a lie about what actually happened with no knowledge of the truth of the matter.
(I will not get into details here about this)'

Smyrna:You're right Dave, and I don't need to know. Arron said it was because people differed with his beliefs, I'm taking his word for it.

Furthermore, it is not a lie that certain posts at CB were edited to take SCRIPTURE verses out of them. yeah, I'm sure there is an excuse for that, too.

"That is not to say that I agree with some of the treatment that Sc'ers have recieved..."

Thank you.

"...but it is a two way street and "some" Sc'ers are as guilty of this behaviour as "some" Cb'ers are.

That is too vague, since you didn't give any examples.

By the way, I don't hate any CB members. I actually feel a little sorry for their plight. I am actually grateful for all of their comedy performances. You can't hate people that make you laugh that hard!

But they made their own choices, so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

david_munson

05-30-2007, 06:40 PM

You take his word for it.
Nice ,
since you don't take his word for much else but what suites your intentions.

You usually don't except much of anything he says.
Hmmm,
quite revealing and thank you for that discloser.
It shows much about what you are all about.

Pick and chooseing only that which ,,,well you know now don't you?

The good thing is that this is all in the open for all to see.

Character matters.

}

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 11:22 AM

"Then you are a liar and I, the cultbuster administrator and the factnet moderator have evidence to prove you just lied. You are bruno and saygoodnightgracie. You're busted! You lie!"

"A banned factnet cyberstalker reincarnated as sgng. bruno, sgng and smyrna share identical isp addresses."

These are boldfaced lies. Here is the truth Glenn (as if your twisted cultbusting mind knows what is true anymore)... SGNG is of course, getagrip. Any moron knows this, the instant I began to post I got several emails from people here welcoming me back.

Getagrip was NOT banned due to your complaints or due to cyberstalking, I was banned due to an inadvertant post on a now locked thread. Do you honestly think the moderators here care about your complaints?

Lastly, you can never prove that Smyrna and I (or Bruno, whoever that is) have the same IP or whatever becuase I use an anonymizer at Cultbusters. I am there as the poster named Roustabout, and frankglennly could care less if I get banned there or not. I have never done anything there but read but I'm sure you cultbusting morons will ban my username...

Whatever IP the anonymizer assigns to me, is the IP I use. If it winds up being the same as Smyrna's, I have no explanation for that - that's just way it is Glenn.

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 11:37 AM

David, Character DOES matter, you and the SCers display it. Enjoy your posts on Cultbusters by the way (not so much here http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif)

Glenn, let us review the TRUTH.

I (telling the TRUTH), "revealed" that I was Franvagosity and was simply messing with you and your friends. I said EXACTLY who I was. (I say "revealed" in italics becuase, again, any moron knew it was me screwing with you, except you I guess. Perhaps you are beyond moron?)

I (again telling the truth), just "revealed" that sgng and gag are one and the same. Again, any moron knows this and knew it from sgng's first post.

By the way space moron, I am no longer banned - that's how I am able to post.

One final note, when you make accusations be sure that they are correct.

When you are WRONG, you should say you're wrong... publicly.

But you won't, because you can't apologize.. like Fonzie, "I was wrrrr... I was wwwrrrrr...." Signs of NO fruit Glenn, read about it Gal.

PS One more lie you told is how you NEVER asked for people's personal info on Factnet.. I have in my possession TWO emails from TWO different people that indicate otherwise.

Please stop lying space moron, I am trying to not post on FN for a while but then you lie about good, Christian people like Angie, Smyrna, Dowen, etc. and I have no choice.

PS I have gotten several email requests for the following, it is well loved here on Factnet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qeu7JRwt0

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 11:44 AM

PS, I also just "revealed" my CB name (Roustabout).. because I tell the TRUTH glenn and I do NOT fraternize HERE or in LIFE with known liars, like you do.

Here is the key difference Spacely Sprockets, I do not care whether I am banned or not because this is not my life. I posted here first to defend a good minister of the gospel who was being unjustly attacked, then saw what you and your friends were doing (lying, exaggerating, double identities, etc.) and decided to do something about it... that's all.

This is YOUR miserable, lonely, desperate, internet life Glenn... thousands of posts, thousands of hours, pretending you are doing some Christian service. You are not.

The only thing that you do is cause STRIFE.

Pitiful little racist guy...

Bye bye Glenn

Your Theme Song and Your Life Story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qeu7JRwt0

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 11:48 AM

Two Last Questions You Won't Answer Liar:

1) Did you state (pontificate) rather adamantly that no one should gather info about another on Factnet?

2) Did you (regardless of your self-righteous speech) attempt to find out my name, email address, etc. from someone by phone or by email?

YES OR NO?

franklin

06-03-2007, 01:19 PM

To the SCers and their supporters:

Here it is in a nutshell:

Go to a school yard, pick out a Jewish child, point your finger at them and holler to the other children "He is a spawn of Satan"!

What you do, what you preach is NOT the word of God. You are pointing fingers at innocent people. Men, women and children. Accusing them of being or suspected of being the literal spawn of Satan.

Don't you see how more dangerous of a world you are making us all have to live in. Your message is false, your leader is false. Stop your hate speech now!

terluvire

06-03-2007, 02:09 PM

Franklin,

I am a Jew!!!

The Jews are not Kenites...period.

How long is it going to take to get that through your head???

And...I hope you are having fun being mad at yourself, for it is your interpretation which you are mad at, not ours.

You say that we say the Jews are the children of satan.

We say the Kenites, not the Jews, are the children of satan.

Got it?

Good!

franklin

06-03-2007, 02:53 PM

The Christian/Jewsih.Islamic interpretation of Genesis is the true interpretation.

The SC/Nazi/KKK/Christian Identity/Moonies/Satanists interpretation of Genesis is false and evil.

The world will never "get" your whacky perversion of the Bible.

German/Aryan/Gaelics are NOT Jews.

You point your fingers at the Jews in Israel, yes arnie says they are ALL kenites, and accuse them being the literal spawn of satan.

That is tantamount to encouraging a child Hamas suicide bomber going on a bus in Telaviv and murdering dozens of innocent men, women and children. Hamas and Al Queda teaches their jihadists, men women and children, that the Jews in Israel are the spawn of satan.

Blood is on your hands from the evil lies you speak.

lutheratx

06-03-2007, 03:19 PM

Franklin does the bible say that there are men of old that crept in and turned the world against Gods teachings?

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (No matter what you call them they are there, the bible clearly says it right here, no way to miss interpret this one)

I already posted this scripture on another page, but it suits the situation. We bring the world to the attention of this people. I don't care who you call them, as a matter of fact I will no longer say that the are just influencing Judaism. They are effecting all false religion. Look at my post to stage I just posted it on another page.

lutheratx

06-03-2007, 03:35 PM

The post to Stage is in what Arnold Murray teaches. Have a good day Franklin. Oh and another thing you such and such ............Nah homeboy its not even like that. Its that boy.

Lutheratx

You know I used to be called getto by some old boy, however you know he thanked me when we finally parted ways. I don't think he liked me when I thought I was a tough guy, but he got to see the transformation of thug to christian. From drunk to follower of Ya saviour. You know I have a gold grill with a diamond cut pattern on it. I was bangin screw. I just had to give that up man you should hear the message screw music puts out there it began to hurt my heart. Oh and Im not black but I sure thought I was, or hispanic. At times I didn't want to be white and yes know I embrace it not because I think I am superior which I do not it is becuase white people are beautiful also.

franklin

06-03-2007, 03:40 PM

Do the sins of the father continue on to the children?

NO!

Does a child who's father is convicted of murder go out and murder also?

NO!

So whatever point you are trying to make about kenites, or hitler (Hitler being a Kenite! Now that's a good one http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif) doesn't wash, doesn't sell.

DNA does not transfer from a parent to a child a propensity to do evil.

That is racist, antisemitic hogwash you are spewing.

You are brainwashed luther. that is all there is too it.

Repent! Wash the blood form your hands! You are an accomplice to the murder of Jews throughout the world by the evil lies you speak! You didn't get that from your parents. You got it from the EVIL arnie!

Abandon arnie and his racist Jew hating heresy! Do it NOW!

stage_director

06-03-2007, 03:51 PM

Franklin, I've got a lot of experience tracing and banning umm, "persistent" people and I probably know about as much as anybody on how proxies work and they aren't necessarily 100%. I have a very long list of persons who've been banned fifty ways from Sunday from my sites over the years and access to some of the best tools there are to trace ips. SGNG is Getagrip like he says. An anonymizer he's used gives it away ... it has a very distinctive style, but even if the address range seems close I don't think he's Smyrna. Proxies don't always cloak you, and I'm pretty sure I know which "real" service SGNG is on, and I do know a "real" service one of Smyrna's ip's has traced to. They aren't the same, and the proxy services they use that I checked don't work in the same way either. I suppose I could be wrong, but I don't think so ...

lutheratx

06-03-2007, 03:51 PM

Wow!

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

He is saying this hate could be passed on generation to generation. Just look at actual KKK members there kids in the old days would become KKK members. Modern times there are to many things that pull them out of this sinful life, but what if you are taught to hate God or Christ no one seems to care the further and further you get away from the Crucifixion. This behavior was excepted by people in biblical days and is excepted this very day, even more so now.

stage_director

06-03-2007, 04:55 PM

QUOTE
The post to Stage is in what Arnold Murray teaches
END QUOTE

What post was that, Luther?

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 06:30 PM

"Smyrna is bruno, saygoodnightgracie OR he knows who they are because they have all used the same computer. If he'd just fess up then maybe we'd have a little more respect for his occasional honesty."

Please address this lie, LIAR.

Then answer the two questions posed to you.

1) Did you state (pontificate) rather adamantly that no one should gather info about another on Factnet?

2) Did you (regardless of your self-righteous speech) attempt to find out my name, email address, etc. from someone by phone or by email?

YES OR NO?

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 06:37 PM

Spacely Glenn Sprocket said "If he'd just fess up then maybe we'd have a little more respect for his occasional honesty."

"WE'D have a little more respect"?... What's with this WE stuff? Got a mouse in your shirt pocket?

New Theme Song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sCEOsdGnKY

franklin

06-03-2007, 07:18 PM

What Arnold Murray and Shepherd's Chapel is guilty of: HATE SPEECH

Definition of hate speech:

hate speech
n.
Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group.

http://www.answers.com/topic/hate-speech

rachelengland

06-03-2007, 08:58 PM

SGNG you are a man who loves God very much. Just show love and if you really feel someone is lonely and sad, don't rub it in...it makes the pain worse....Take care R

watchman_2

06-03-2007, 10:06 PM

franklin's quote:
*****
Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group.
*****

Looks like glenn is describing himself perfectly.

saygoodnightgracie

06-03-2007, 10:13 PM

OK, I won't.

Thank you for reminding me to act like a Christian. Had house church with the kids (too
lazy to go to church after vacationhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif) and talked all about the Love Walk just this morning...

Your boyfriend is a real weenie, but that's no excuse.

May the Love and the Peace of God Rule and Reign in Your Heart!

franklin

06-03-2007, 11:01 PM

In tape #412, Demons, Murray states:

"Their sons don't cast out devils - they love them . . . I'm saying it because its a fact. They love them. It works in their favor - works to their advantage. Why do they steep themselves in pornography? Why do they steep themselves in carnality? Why do you think their own Talmud is the filthiest piece of literature ever written because they're at home with it. They love it. Its their cup of tea. Its Satan's cup of tea."

On tape #406, Grace:Baptism, Murray states,

"Bless your heart if you have ever been deceived by the Kenite, and I am speaking now on the spiritual level, if you have ever really believed that group was the chosen of God you were deceived by Satan. Repent of that even more so than your personal sins in the personal sense."

All of the above is blatant HATE SPEECH!

aviyah

06-04-2007, 12:40 AM

Rage Director,

Define persistent...

*********************************************** ***
"I've got a lot of experience tracing and banning umm, "persistent" people..." (Rage Director, 06/03/07)
*********************************************** ***

By "persistent" do you mean anyone who persistently disagrees with you? I'm just wondering if this has anything to do with Smyrna's absence of late?

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

aviyah

06-04-2007, 12:51 AM

*********************************************** ***
"The world will never "get" your @*&$%_@$#&*%@!&* (understanding) of the Bible." (Franklin, 06/03/07)
*********************************************** ***

Sorry Frank but the world is getting it...via satellite...compliments of Sheperd's Chapel.

Nothing you spew or do will ever change that!

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

franklin

06-04-2007, 12:57 AM

Arnold Murray says: "Why do you think their own Talmud is the filthiest piece of literature ever written because they're at home with it."

Reap what you sow.

Yes you will.

stage_director

06-04-2007, 03:25 AM

QUOTE
By "persistent" do you mean anyone who persistently disagrees with you? I'm just wondering if this has anything to do with Smyrna's absence of late?
END QUOTE

Persistent means people who got banned for harassing or offensive behavior, but kept coming back with alternate ips or user ids. Umm, I don't think banning Smyrna there would prevent him from posting here. ;-)

watchman_2

06-04-2007, 04:03 PM

bw2,

Tape #412 does not exist on the SC list of tapes as of 1996. Obviously, franklin doesn't have the tape either. He just improperly quotes it as if he is in possession of the tapes.

stage_director

06-04-2007, 05:35 PM

QUOTE
Tape #412 does not exist on the SC list of tapes as of 1996
END QUOTE

The older tapes were numbered differently. I have both the transcript and the "original Temple Elect" audio (tape #504) from PO 1985.

watchman_2

06-04-2007, 06:22 PM

bw2,

Franklin could have demonstrated the decency to cite the source for his information in his Post No. 176 on 6/3/07.

http://www.naminggrace.org/id51.htm

(Courtesy of the SC critic research team.)

franklin

06-04-2007, 11:08 PM

bluewater2

06-04-2007, 11:20 PM

I have an open mind with this until I know. Watchman, is it your belief that Mr. Murray never said that and that there is no tape of him saying that? And Stage, do you have the audio of the tape mentioned, with Mr. Murray saying those things? Thank you.

watchman_2

06-04-2007, 11:51 PM

bw2,

In the 12 years of my viewing SC broadcasts, I do not recall any comment on the Talmud. It is not typical of PM to discuss other religions other than to separate out Christianity as reality and not a religion.

However, if he did make such a comment before my tenure as a SC student, I would know that he [allegedly] is speaking of the Kenites and don't have a problem with the comment.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 01:55 AM

The Talmud denies Christ as the son of God. How do I know that? Judaism denies Christ as the son of God. The Talmud is right at home with what satan wants, the removal of Christ. I don't get how Christians get offended when someone tells the truth about Judaism. Also you know that statement has to be about the kenites. The bible itself calls many kenites Jews. Blue water I do not care what you think about Gods truth, I do love you, but you are not going to change my mind that Judaism has tried to seperate Christ from the Judah. You would just be another guy offended by the truth, oh well, I hope the truth does not offend you. I hope that you understand that Chapel students are no more special than you. I hope that babyl does not grasp a hold studies you have. Please do your best in the persuit of God not traditions of men and you'll be fine. I hope that I don't come off as hollier than you I do not know what God has planned for you, but I hope it is GRAND. You have a good day friend and stand up for the freedom of religion, dont stand up for that religion's doctrine. Example I believe it is not a true doctrine, I do however support there right to practice it.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 02:08 AM

Also I think I know what verse this comes from because I've heard Pastor teach the verse I have not heard it taught in this manner however. I earnestly don't have a problem with above said statement either. Here is the verses I think it came from.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Cain was a vagabond and so where his children. This is clearly talking about kenites.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 02:20 AM

( I meant were in the above post)

Religion with the absence of Jesus is false religion.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

aviyah

06-05-2007, 03:08 AM

Bluewater,

I have listened to Sheperd's Chapel for approximately 17 years. I can honestly say, I had never heard of the Talmud until recently when I stumbled across this message board.

You might notice, that even if these words were spoken by Murray (and that's a BIG IF considering the source), no particular individuals or religion was made mention of.

As I said I am unfamiliar with the Talmud so I recently looked it up. From what I gather, it is not the Jewish "Bible" per se. I think the Torah is. From what I understand it was written by Rabbis in the Babylonian language.

This being the case, I can understand why one might refer to it negatively. What do you know of the Bible? From what I have gathered you don't think much of it. To understand what I'm saying, you have to understand that the Bible never mentions Babylon in a positive light.

God Bless, AviYAH

aviyah

06-05-2007, 03:11 AM

bluewater2

06-05-2007, 04:12 AM

to Xman3

"Religion with the absence of Jesus is false religion." I would certainly agree that any religion with the absence of Jesus is not Christianity, but there are many religions out there besides xtianity. Some are much older as well and certainly recognized world wide as being religions. I can't imagine that you discount the other religions of the world as meaningless.

"John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." That is easily one of the most intolerant scriptures of the NT, and reason enough to reject the idea the Jesus is the Messiah.

"The Talmud denies Christ as the son of God. How do I know that? Judaism denies Christ as the son of God." Judaism does not see Jesus as the Messiah simply because he did not fulfill the prophecies as written in THEIR BOOK. As far as the Talmud goes, I am unable to find anywhere in it where it specifically rejects Jesus as the Messiah, but you are right in that it does not accept that notion. And for good reason. The Jewish Bible, the xtian version of the Jewish Bible that xtians call the old testament, and the new testament, which the Jews do not accept, are all the same in that they are books of "rules to live by." What is interesting, and unfortunately distateful for many, is that the new testament is the only one that says, "The only way to the father is but through me, and your intolerant John 3:18 scripture.

"I hope that I don't come off as hollier than you . . . ." You do.
" . . . and stand up for the freedom of religion, dont stand up for that religion's doctrine." I am more interested in freedom from religion, but I believe that people should be allowed to believe what they want. Just keep religion out of the public schools and the government and I am happy. Like the dead guy said, and a very nice man he was, "Don't pray in public like the hypocrates, pray behind closed doors and your father will hear you." Since the bible seems to be so easy to interpret liberally, I take that to mean, keep it at home and in the churches.

I am very happy that you embrace the belief system that you do if it works for you and makes you a more tolerant and loving individual, but you can not love me. You do not know me. You can love life and all of the living, but you do not know me as a person.

bluewater2

06-05-2007, 04:16 AM

Watchman

Thank you for your response. Things quoted out of context can often be made to look worse than they are. I think I would need to see or hear the entire tape to understand what he was talking about. I will try to ge ahold of it.

Franklin

Where can I locate the audio or the entire text of the video that you are mentioning?

Thank you.

franklin

06-05-2007, 04:40 AM

I believe stage director will be able to help you find that source.

You're welcome.

stage_director

06-05-2007, 04:44 AM

QUOTE
And Stage, do you have the audio of the tape mentioned, with Mr. Murray saying those things? Thank you.
END QUOTE

Yes, I have audios of "Demons" "The Three World Ages" "The Desolator" "Son of Perdition" "Judah is Germany" "Communion and Sixes" and quite a few more.

xman3

06-05-2007, 04:54 AM

bluewater2, I believe you accidently attributed someone else's post to me above.

stage_director

06-05-2007, 04:56 AM

To you Shep Chap'lers ... is there anything that might cause you to part company with Arnold Murray and Shepherd's Chapel? Or are you in it to the end no matter what he says or teaches?

I've got more than one tape where he talks of being taken to 3rd Heaven like Paul ... and where he points to parts of the bible that he says personally refer to him and his ministry.

If this is true ... do any of these things raise an eyebrow with you?

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 02:25 PM

Ah wow here is the reasons I don't value your opinion when it comes to religion.

BWater writes: That is easily one of the most intolerant scriptures of the NT, and reason enough to reject the idea the Jesus is the Messiah.

so as for your question:

Bwater: I have an open mind with this until I know. Watchman, is it your belief that Mr. Murray never said that and that there is no tape of him saying that? And Stage, do you have the audio of the tape mentioned, with Mr. Murray saying those things? Thank you.

Luther: Do you think that the Muslim or the Jew has said things about the Christian before? Well heck wasn't there a Catholic priest killed in Iraq two days ago for being christian. We verbalised something that may have offended you oh wait you are still breathing air though. This is a war of principalities on high. So my lack of concern if you are offended by what I feel is the truth remains a lack of concern. You can come into the temple and God will welcome you. I would welcome you, come on in the water is fine as wine. We would love to have you.

Bwater: Like the dead guy said,

Satan is the only one sentenced to death and he does say things very similar to the King of all Kings. It shows who you serve, even if you do not even realise it. Also that scripture does not mean that at all, The word hypocrite means play actors. Don't play church is what is said, try not to be holier than somebody else is what is said. Prayers should be real and heart felt not for other people attention. Praying before a meal OK, talking about God in public OK, government officials bowing there head in silent prayer OK, prayer in school with a group you bible study with is so OK it is even preferred. God does not take a back seat. I let everyone know my beliefs if it doesn't take I don't shove it down there throats I'm done at that point.

I said in the previous post: I hope that you understand that Chapel students are no more special than you.

I was hoping you would understand this meant I am no better than you. My background is quite checkered trust me you like me better now.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 02:53 PM

Stage Director answer to your question No it doesn't why, because if he says something I don't agree with I can disagree. However this man (actually he gives the credit to God) has taught me more secrets kept from the foundations that anybody else, things that no you will never take away from me.

watchman_2

06-05-2007, 03:04 PM

stage_director,

You wrote:
*****
I've got more than one tape where he talks of being taken to 3rd Heaven like Paul ... and where he points to parts of the bible that he says personally refer to him and his ministry.

If this is true ... do any of these things raise an eyebrow with you?
*****

If I told you that I have a guardian angel that watches over me, would you believe me?

Do you believe in alien abductions?

Do you believe in UFO's?
.
.
.
The point is that, though such things may or may not occur, one cannot prove it to the disbeliever.

Now, if Jack Van Impe, Jerry Falwell, Hal Lindsey, or any other rapture preacher made such a claim, I would know they are liars. I would know that because they do not teach the Word of God.

Likewise, on this forum, I have chastised many detractors for falsely claiming to be led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would not lead one to false theology and, as long as they purport their belief in false theology, I know that they are led by seducing spirits, and not the Holy Spirit. They are liars, attempting to use one-up-manship to justify their positions.

In your case, you have taken these earlier tapes and, because you are a disbeliever in such spiritual matters, you have drawn the conclusion that, by default, the teachings of PM have to be in error, since it is impossible for a man to have a spiritual revelation from God.

Your logic is completely opposite of that which it should be. In essence, you have allowed your own weak understandings [ignorance] to trump the Word of God. Instead of studying to determine whether PM teaches the truth, you used his spiritual revelation to dismiss the teaching of God's Truth.

On the other hand, I can see that he teaches the Truth of the Bible. That is because I checked him out -- just as he directs those that view his broadcasts. Hence, if he did make such statements about the third heaven, I believe that it did take place. After all, he certainly did not get his gift of teaching from man.

ihavesinned

06-05-2007, 04:26 PM

Does it strike any of you as odd that one day you see a thread called "bickering cult fanatics", and you obligingly show up and start bickering?

No surprise that Franklin was the first one.

This Arnold Murray is debated and discussed as if he is god, and not just another run-of-the-mill southern pistol packing bible thumper.

Who really cares what he or any other preacher has to say? If there was a god, would he want you doing battle here in cyberspace, fighting the "Murray Detractors" as you put it? Can't you see how nutty this is?

Are you seriously sitting here debating if the Jews are offspring of the devil? This could be a hollywood script if it were a little less outrageous.

To an outsider with no interest in who wins this debate, you all sound like mental patients. This watchman I think is saying in his last post that Murray got his "gift" for teaching from god. Really? Does that go for all televangelists, or just the ones you decide upon.

Did it ever occur to you that god (should he exist) probably wouldn't need a middle man holding a collection plate and telling you how to interpret a book?

terluvire

06-05-2007, 04:48 PM

IHS said:
To an outsider with no interest in who wins this debate, you all sound like mental patients. This watchman I think is saying in his last post that Murray got his "gift" for teaching from god. Really? Does that go for all televangelists, or just the ones you decide upon.

Hi IHS, from what I gather, you are not a believer which is fine with me. I'm not going to post to make you believe there is a God. That is your choice and your choice alone to make. But....other Christians understand exactly what Watchman is saying.

All gifts come from God and if one is gifted from God to teach his word, it will be evident. All a person has to do is check them out in God's word to see if they are credible or not.

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

We are told by God to study his word:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

One can tell if a teacher aligns with the word of God by doing what God tells us:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Quote:
Did it ever occur to you that god (should he exist) probably wouldn't need a middle man holding a collection plate and telling you how to interpret a book?

1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

and
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

and
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Ter

ihavesinned

06-05-2007, 04:54 PM

Little did Philip know GOD was talking about a gun toting old white guy from Ar-Kan-Saw. Is that what you're saying here? Please.

PS,
You can save the one-liners from the bible - it is very easy to justify just about anything with a one liner from the bible.

rachelengland

06-05-2007, 04:58 PM

" P.S. You can save the one-liners from the bible - it is very easy to justify just about anything with a one liner from the bible". IHS

IHS, can I use that line ..you haven't copywriten it have you...R

rachelengland

06-05-2007, 04:59 PM

"You can save the one-liners from the bible - it is very easy to justify just about anything with a one liner from the bible".

IHS, can I use that line ..you haven't copywritten it have you?...R

rachelengland

06-05-2007, 05:01 PM

Man how did that come up 3 times..this place is crazy?

Notice I spelled copywritten wrong 2 times where is the edit option?????

abiyah

06-05-2007, 05:01 PM

Ihavesinned WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Does it strike any of you as odd that one day you see a thread called "bickering cult fanatics", and you obligingly show up and start bickering?

No surprise that Franklin was the first one.

This Arnold Murray is debated and discussed as if he is god, and not just another run-of-the-mill southern pistol packing bible thumper.

Who really cares what he or any other preacher has to say? If there was a god, would he want you doing battle here in cyberspace, fighting the "Murray Detractors" as you put it? Can't you see how nutty this is?

Are you seriously sitting here debating if the Jews are offspring of the devil? This could be a hollywood script if it were a little less outrageous.

To an outsider with no interest in who wins this debate, you all sound like mental patients. This watchman I think is saying in his last post that Murray got his "gift" for teaching from god. Really? Does that go for all televangelists, or just the ones you decide upon.

Did it ever occur to you that god (should he exist) probably wouldn't need a middle man holding a collection plate and telling you how to interpret a book? " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

Proverbs 14:1
" The fool [=senseless] hath said in his heart [= being his mind], There is no God. ............ "

ihavesinned

06-05-2007, 05:04 PM

Go ahead, use it. You'll need it around here. It's like no further explanation is needed. Just drop some bible verse on em and that will set things right.

The absurdity of trying to explain your position with a few bible verses is easily seen above. Even christians will viciously attack each other and justify it with bible verses or interpretations of their own choosing. It is just nonsense.

watchman_2

06-05-2007, 05:07 PM

ihavesinned,

You didn't really read my post for clarity. It is clear that I wrote that one uses the Word of God to sort out fact from fiction with respect to preachers. This is how a true Bible student can discern that all 'rapture' preachers are false.

Hence, by the Word of God, one would know that any spriritual revelation issued by one of these false teachers is untrue. They would be liars for stating such a thing.

I know that you love your thumb-sucking rapture. So, don't try to mask your comments because I spoke out against some of your favorite [false] preachers.

ihavesinned

06-05-2007, 05:13 PM

Uh, I'm an atheist dude. I'm not sure what you mean about thumb sucking rapture. But somehow I get the idea that if there is a god, he doesn't need you protecting his "word".

All you really have is a dusty old book that seems to mean many different things to many different people. You like to think you understand it all, and it makes sense.

If it really were the word of god, we would not see the disagreement.

stage_director

06-05-2007, 05:16 PM

abiyah

06-05-2007, 05:32 PM

Ihavesinned WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Go ahead, use it. You'll need it around here. It's like no further explanation is needed. Just drop some Bible verse on em and that will set things right. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

Romans 15:4
" For whatsoever things were Written aforetime were Written for 'OUR' [=that includes you too] learning, that we through patience and comfort of The Scriptures might have hope. "

ihavesinned WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " The absurdity of trying to explain your position with a few Bible verses is easily seen above. "
*********************************************** **

Verses... ? It was merely one sentence within a Verse sir. Does The Truth offend you ? How is Truth absurd ? That makes no sense. 

ihavesinned WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Even Christians will viciously attack each other and justify it with Bible Verses or interpretations of their own choosing. " END
*********************************************** **

Christians are not to viciously attack, and REAL, SINCERE Christians do no such thing, for that type of behaviour is contrary to that which The Living God Commands. Yet perhaps.... because you are VOID of Truth at this time, you can not tell the difference, that difference between a 'real/sincere' Christian and a FAKE. Sir, I'm certainly not vicously attacking you, is that what you think ?

Abiyah : )

wls

06-05-2007, 05:35 PM

QUOTE
Did it ever occur to you that god (should he exist) probably wouldn't need a middle man holding a collection plate and telling you how to interpret a book?
END QUOTE

You're sure right about that ... He doesn't.

There has to be Bible teachers that rightly divide the Word of God, otherwise you'll be mislead into believing stuff like this:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5025/5025_01.asp

rachelengland

06-05-2007, 05:41 PM

Jesus take the wheel...http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

bluewater2

06-05-2007, 05:46 PM

Sorry xman, it was meant for Luther.

Stage Director. How can I get my hands on one of the tapes that you have so I can here one of his controversial sermons that contain the scriptures that Franklin wrote in it's entirety?

Thank you.

Luther, most of what you said in your last post to me makes no sense. I guess you are on an entirely different level than I am speaking an entirely alien language than the one I am used to. Thank you for your response.

watchman_2

06-05-2007, 05:47 PM

ihavesinned,

You wrote:
*****
Uh, I'm an atheist dude.
*****

Worse yet! At least rapturists are smart enough to know that life is not the result of a lightning bolt in the primordial soup of chemicals which resulted in a bacteria.

However, I do apologize for my errant conclusion that you were a rapturist.

The fact that mankind has corrupted the word of God to the point that many do not understand it does not, in any way, negate the workmanship or presence of the creator.

abiyah

06-05-2007, 05:53 PM

STAGE DIRECTOR WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " QUOTE
Did it ever occur to you that god (should he exist) probably wouldn't need a middle man holding a collection plate and telling you how to interpret a book?
END QUOTE

You're sure right about that ... He doesn't." END
*********************************************** **

REALLY STAGE ? Does our Father not HAVE servants ? Indeed He does NOT "need" to, but He does choose some to bring forth His Truth to ALL of His Children. A collection plate... certainly NOT, for God does not send forth beggars, for He PROVIDETH for His own, and He Knows what they have NEED of. When one receives Truth of God's Word, God expects that one to share that Truth ! 

Jeremiah 7:25
" Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day "I" [ The LORD sent them !] have even sent unto you all MY SERVANTS THE PROPHETS, daily rising up early and sending them; "

Acts 9:15
" But The Lord said unto him, Go thy way; for he is A CHOSEN VESSEL UNTO ME, TO BEAR MY NAME before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel; "

skooter942000

06-05-2007, 05:56 PM

...only a Squirrel would listen to STAGE D.

One who is looking for a certain TYPE of food source.

(- Hey that was Funny)

- Still no name calling SD

I will walk with anyone who walks with CHRIST.

( and i will not walk with those who walk without HIM).

& Pastor Arnold Murray has CHRIST

------
------------
--------------------

(CBers)

Go Back to your own CULT , -(At cultbusters),
We are tired of the LIES you all SPEW-FORTH.

You came
You did not Conqure
(...so leave)

Kick the DUST-OFF ,(like the Bible states)
- And depart.

(...or do you want to argue over that verse too)?

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you,
nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that
house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I do not receive you,
FOLLOW CHRIST'S WORDS, (And LEAVE)

- if you do actually FOLLOW CHRIST.

You should see the above verse (As TRUE),
While i see this verse below (AS TRUE, of 'you'_).

||
||
\/

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth
not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you,
and bring not this doctrine, receive him not
into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed
...is partaker of his evil deeds.

Either way go back to your CULTISH group.

i will not wish you Godspeed,
- so kick the dust off.

Don <*))><

bluewater2

06-05-2007, 05:57 PM

"REALLY STAGE ? Does our Father not HAVE servants ?" I do not see any evidence that these "servants", (money changers), were appointed by god.

watchman_2

06-05-2007, 06:01 PM

stage_director,

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 

Gee -- it looks like God and Christ need some middlemen in the millennium as well. What a surprise -- you are wrong again.

stage_director

06-05-2007, 06:05 PM

QUOTE
Stage Director. How can I get my hands on one of the tapes that you have so I can here one of his controversial sermons that contain the scriptures that Franklin wrote in it's entirety?
END QUOTE

Here's the problem, Blue ... I'm trying to find a foreign server to put them on that will be deaf to harassing complaints by someone like Smyrna and yet free of Trojans, etc. I have someone I know who worked for the UN (IT capacity) who's going to get back to me with a recommendation.

I have some online now that I'm not sharing with the general public just yet ... write me at cafept@gmail.com ... I'll upload whichever one you want to hear from my list when I verify you're "bluewater2" ... Btw, people ... these tapes are older and weren't copyrighted, and I doubt they'll ever be ... because then the Chapel would have to officially claim them as Murray's. lol

stage_director

06-05-2007, 06:09 PM

QUOTE
REALLY STAGE ? Does our Father not HAVE servants ?
END QUOTE

What's the definition of a servant? To serve ... and that doesn't mean your own interests, or some man.

stage_director

06-05-2007, 06:12 PM

QUOTE
Kick the DUST-OFF ,(like the Bible states)
- And depart.
END QUOTE

Why don't you take your own advice? I'm not going anywhere until I choose to unless the admin decide I shouldn't be here.

skooter942000

06-05-2007, 06:23 PM

The Money Changers were not appointed by GOD.

Good catch BLUE.

- These are the nethinims. (TARES)

But as far as GOD choosing those to serve HIMSELF.

- You have Heard of Aaron , (have you not)?

HE had many SONS, (that helped to SERVE GOD).
- They still exist to this DAY.

Not that they are who you might believe them to be.

And there Goes SD yet again,
- posting nonsense.

...saying things that make little sense.

- Nothing new , (under the SUN).

GOD gives GIFTS , (As abiyah stated)

HE gave some the GIFT to be TEACHERS.
- To help teach the sheep.

Need the scriptures?

- Just ask.

- Hint See 1Cor 9 , 10 , 11 , or 12 http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Stage D is not credible
(careful listening to her)

She hears what she wants to hear,
and that's when the confusion begins.

Facts are Facts here at
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/FactLogoSmall.gif

Don <*))><

bluewater2

06-05-2007, 06:38 PM

harold@*****bear.com

skooter942000

06-05-2007, 07:06 PM

Stage (you are here to ACCUSE)

Not to help
Not to educate
Not to endorse

SC is not a CULT (just because you say it is)

There is no MIND CONTROL
There are not MENTAL GAMES being PLAYED
We do not BOW DOWN to Pastor Murray

i am here to defend GOD/CHRIST ,
- (And the Chapel),
of the LIES you help to spew. (that's a FACT)

'i' will leave , when GOD desires.

you are not serving CHRIST,
- you are serving "self".

- This is clear, to all (Here)

- If they are paying close attention.

Not one accusation from any have stuck on me.
This shows who i SERVE.

- And who the accusers serve.

If you would follow CHRIST, you would leave,
if you stay ,(this is further PROOF of who you serve).

- tick tock

stage_director

06-05-2007, 07:58 PM

QUOTE
If you would follow CHRIST, you would leave,
if you stay ,(this is further PROOF of who you serve).
END QUOTE

Do you think that might apply to you?

abiyah

06-05-2007, 08:58 PM

Stage Diretor WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " have some online now that I'm not sharing with the general public just yet ... write me at cafept@gmail.com ... I'll upload whichever one you want to hear from my list " END
*********************************************** **

Stage.... please..... IF you have these so-called tapes, and they are not copyrighted, as you so claim.... then why do you NOT link them here, link them for us ALL to hear, I mean these would prove your case... would they not ? LOL !!!!!!! And one more thing... what pupose would it serve to share these with Bluewater ???? For he does not believe in God.... he has so stated this. LOL ! What is your point Stage ? And IF you have proof to ALL your false claims... then why wouldn't you prove them to those that find you to be a liar, something is not adding up with you.

Abiyah

franklin

06-05-2007, 10:45 PM

Nice try Luther.

Sorry no sale!

Then let him come out in front of the world and reject what he said on those tapes and repent.

I'm waiting.

Paul did reject his past and repent.

I'm waiting.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 10:47 PM

If you think I wrote my above post and got it to post in 6 minutes you are wrong. In fact factnet would not let me post because I messed up the red and bold and had to figure out what it was explaining to me. I also had to use the Strong's concordance, and I proof read. So here are two post from two different people stating almost the same exact thing.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 10:52 PM

Franklin Pastor Murray has said that he has made mistakes in the past. Also you have to be smarter than the critics, you think he should give them ammo. Also I thought it was Catholics that had to bring there mistakes before man. Apparently you are Catholic what ever floats your boat man AM is not catholic.

lutheratx

06-05-2007, 10:55 PM

my computer is so slow I got about 3 post left before 29 days 3hours and 3 minutes.

franklin

06-05-2007, 11:03 PM

A minister that teaches his flock one thing and then the Holy Spirit shows them it was wrong should recant in front of the congregation and everyone who heard that false doctrine. A minister is different than just a regular man.

He preaches the serpent seed doctrine and that the Jews in Israel are the evil spawn of the devil still today.

So no, he has not changed. Same man as he was was when those tapes were made.

aviyah

06-05-2007, 11:23 PM

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

*********************************************** ***
"Stage Director. How can I get my hands on one of the tapes that you have so I can here one of his controversial sermons that contain the scriptures that Franklin wrote in it's entirety?" (Bluewater, 06/05/07)

"Here's the problem, Blue ... I'm trying to find a foreign server to put them on that will be deaf to harassing complaints by someone like Smyrna and yet free of Trojans, etc. I have someone I know who worked for the UN (IT capacity) who's going to get back to me with a recommendation." (rage Director, 06/05/07)
*********************************************** ***

OF COARSE THERE IS A SIMPLER, "MORE DIRECT" SOLUTION TO THIS REDICULOUS DILEMMA...

http://www.sheperdschapel.com/cgi_bin/archive.cfm

Also Sheperd's Chapel is aired via satellite and cable all over the US and beyond. It doesn't cost one red cent and if you hear any alleged racial slurs you are free to turn it off or switch the channel. The prudent choice would be to hear the sermons yourself firsthand, and use your OWN judgement regarding the content of the Word.

God Bless, AviYAH

stage_director

06-05-2007, 11:52 PM

QUOTE
Why not put them on your own website? I know of at least 2 that you have, so your statements just don't ring true to me (gasp!).
END QUOTE

I don't own the servers, Angie. I have a domain plus forums in online communities ... but some somebody has to host them, don't you think?

lutheratx

06-06-2007, 12:00 AM

I do not apologize for Pastor Murray his works that I have seen and heard give me the ability to eat your lunch friend. Like for instant when I told you that even the bible called the kenite Jew. Why is that, oh because the kenite was living in JUDAH. Also what you seem to be missing about the freedom of religion is that I don't have to be forced to side with a religion. I do not have to side with Judaism, my religion can say that they are in false religion, I have freedom. The Jew says my saviour the King is not even real, I tell you they use the freedom as much as they want. So once again if Christianities stance that Judaism is false religion offends you, tough. I do not care if my belief system offends you. That's like if you supported the War in Iraq, this would offend people, or if you didn't support the war in Iraq this would offend people. Are you a push over chump? Or are you a man (or real women works to)?

aviyah

06-06-2007, 12:03 AM

WLS,

*********************************************** ***
"You misspelled the hyperlink." (WLS, 06/05/07)
*********************************************** ***

If you do an independent search on google with this address, the Sheperd's Chapel website pops up. Someone here at Factnet (namely Rage Director) has done some technical thing to alter it. It is a perfect representation of the sort of character this person Rage Director possesses.

SO TO WHOM IT MAT CONCERN:

Sheperd's Chapel sermons can easily be heard from the official Sheperd's Chapel websites as well as on television. Just run a search on Sheperd's Chapel...You'll find it.

AviYAH

stage_director

06-06-2007, 12:28 AM

Bruno, I suspect it was more than your questions that got you banned, but more like your singular focus on Shep Chapel on a forum with many subjects ... all the while claiming to be totally unfamiliar with the church, and using a proxy that morphs more often than stock price on the NASDAQ ... What did you expect?

oneway

06-06-2007, 12:37 AM

"Someone here at Factnet (namely Rage Director) has done some
technical thing to alter it. It is a perfect representation of the sort of character this
person Rage Director possesses."

LOL!! It would have nothing to do with the fact that you can't spell your beloved chapel correctly? That's right, go ahead and blame it on stage_director tho, lol.

enoch1

06-06-2007, 12:48 AM

Hello Again,

You did raise a good question, Stage Director, that is, if you had read my first post to FactNet yesterday.
But I'm cool, you may have missed it, or forgot.
Franklin turned me on to the Shepherd's Chapel. Why did he do this? Because when I fist came to Cultbusters, I saw the Galactic parts of the site. I always liked Sci-fi, so I asked Franklin, who not only is a moderator, but he plays the Captain there. So, I wanted to get into the game. Not knowing what it was about, Franklin told me about the Shepherd's Chapel, and I found out about FactNet from the references to it once I went on the Shepherd's Chapel thread. I'm sure Franklin remembers our private messages there, so ask him yourself.
That game was just way over my head, too much to remember, even with a good memory. I suppose you can get used to it over time, and be able to get into it.
When I started learning about the Shepherd's Chapel,I was intrigued by what they taught. Intrigued does not mean I believed it, but since I never heard of the Serpent's Seed, I checked it out.
Now I either posted a comment or wrote it directly to Franklin, but I said it was a strange teaching, but when Mitch said it was also in the Talmud, that really got me going, trying to find the origin of it.
That is that, Stage Director. I started just wanting to play a game, but then became interested in why the Cultbusters pay so much attention to the SC. I still wonder, because it certainly isn't the most dangerous group in the world, just strange beliefs that some, and I do mean some, think are racist in scope. But so far, I myself just can't make the connection. Call me ignorant or stupid, but I just don't see it.
I guess any teaching can be abused. And I always like the phrase "torture the data long enough, and it will tell you anything you want it to."
Also, and you can ask David Munsun about this, I posted on the political forum there too. By the way, where is David?

Bruno

aviyah

06-06-2007, 12:50 AM

Bluewater,

*********************************************** ***
"the apologetics are out" (Bluewater, 06/05/07)
*********************************************** ***

I wonder which posts you consider apologetic?

Pastor Murray definitely DOES read the verses from the Bible which speak of "certain Jews" which are of the Synagogue of Satan. He definitely DOES interject his opinions at times.

The great debate is whether or not Murray teaches that ALL people of Jewish descent are these "certain Jews". Any claims that Murray has ever said THAT are brazen lies! After nearly 2 decades of studying the Bible with Sheperd's Chapel, I am certain of that.

As I said before, all one has to do is listen to the sermons themselves. The sermons are easily accessible with or without the help of Rage Director.

I am relatively new to Factnet. I stumbled across it in April of this year. Judging by older posts which I've skimmed through, it would seem that Rage Director has been claiming for at least a year now, to have some secret damning information against this pastor and his ministry. He has yet to clarify exactly what it is that is so damning.

In the mean time, Pastor Murray continues to reach millions of viewers, readers, and listeners by simply reading the Bible book by book, verse by verse.

If you truly do have some tapes from the Chapel, Enjoy! If it's not something that Rage Director could have altered, I am certain you will recognize that Rage Director has made muriads of false accusations against this pastor and what he teaches.

AviYAH

bluewater2

06-06-2007, 12:52 AM

Luther. You make no sense to me. Are you talking about eating my lunch? Hmmmm. Ok, have at it. Today I had a big bag of BBQ chips but I didn't see your hand in it. Did I say somewhere that your beliefs offended me? Not at all. They just seem ignorant and intolerant. You can be that if you wish. I am having a really hard time understanding your writing style as well.

Gold star for the Jews for not recongnizing Jesus as the Messiah. The prophecies were only fulfilled in the Xtian, twisted, version of the Jewish Bible, your old testament.

And no, I think the war in Iraq is a big cluster **ck, knew it would be and it is. Very counter productive and the biggest waste of energy I have ever seen. What a waste.

Also, I would never want to see your ability to worship whatever idol you want to restricted. Enjoy.

lutheratx

06-06-2007, 12:56 AM

One more thing B water pastor Murray will not say any thing anti semitic. Anti Semitic is against the language, against the cultures, and against the family. He teaches Judah as being the king line, he teaches Jesus is half Judah. He teaches the language, and he teaches the culture. If his says something about the Jews which I'm sure, in fact I am certain, he will clarify many times who he is referring to, he is in fact talking about the religion, not the people. If he were talking about the people he would not call them Jew he would call them Judah, possibly even Ioudais. Even when talking about the religion he says we are not to judge even the Kenite, not even Judias are we to judge. A Jew can change his beliefs, so to attack these people with violence or something like that you, would possibly be standing against what God may have even predestined.

He does teach the good Jews also, the ones that were open to Christ and not trying to control what the church was to believe. He teaches that there were Jews of Judah (the area) that were blending in with the king line and even the priesthood and from these came false religion. Now remember the freedom of religion that I served this great country to maintain. You may think that I am trying to change someones beliefs, hey your beliefs are your beliefs I feel they are wrong, but you are free to believe them. So if listening to these tapes helps you in your beliefs feel free to do so. You'll just be one more person to debate with, aw freedom of religion.

lutheratx

06-06-2007, 01:02 AM

B water does my writing style make you think maybe Im uneducated, or maybe just dumb? Is this some sort of personal attack? Goodness I hope not however I can take it, unload friend. I can take it.

aviyah

06-06-2007, 01:14 AM

Oneway,

Now that you've had your loud laugh...

*********************************************** ***
"LOL!! It would have nothing to do with the fact that you can't spell your beloved chapel correctly? That's right, go ahead and blame it on stage_director tho, lol." (Oneway, 06/05/07)
*********************************************** ***

...notice that it is not spelled incorrectly.

http://www.sheperdschapel.com/cgi_bin/archive.cfm

Now get off of Factnet and run an independent search on the same address. Then maybe you will realize the depth of deceit which is happening here.

Rage Director is the Director. He has said so many times right here in these pages. Just ask him.

After running the search, ask yourself why someone would feel compelled to stoop to this level.

AviYAH

oneway

06-06-2007, 01:26 AM

aviyah,

Perhaps you can explain this link if yours is spelled correctly.

http://www.shepherdschapel.com/cgi_bin/archive.cfm

aviyah

06-06-2007, 01:35 AM

Bluewater,

Countless others have claimed to be Messiah. Did you ever wonder how this one humble man Jesus has made such an impact on the world in spite of all the vigorous attempts to stomp out Christianity?

*********************************************** ***
"Gold star for the Jews for not recongnizing Jesus as the Messiah. The prophecies were only fulfilled in the Xtian, twisted, version of the Jewish Bible, your old testament." (Bluewater, 06/05/07)
*********************************************** ***

Did you bother to read the websites about the Zodiac and the pyramid at Giza? Your insolent dismissals of Christ and Christianity do not change the fact that Christianity is a reality.

AviYAH

watchman_2

06-06-2007, 02:56 AM

Aviyah's link to stage_director's effort to hijack internet traffic intended for the true SC website is despicable.

She is a low-life. Her and Margie are peas in a pod.

oneway

06-06-2007, 03:22 AM

watchman_2,

"Aviyah's link to stage_director's effort to hijack internet traffic intended for the true SC
website is despicable.

She is a low-life. Her and Margie are peas in a pod."

I admit, I'm confused here. I have no clue what you're all talking about. So clue me into what you and aviyah are talking about in this regard. I seem to be missing something here or am I?

terluvire

06-06-2007, 03:29 AM

Hi Aviyah,

I have to commend you. I, along with a few other SCers, had already figured there was some hacking going on here. But when you showed up, being a newbie, and was also able to see this....I thought...wow!

Good job!

Watchman said:
Aviyah's link to stage_director's effort to hijack internet traffic intended for the true SC website is despicable.

She is a low-life. Her and Margie are peas in a pod.

I agree.

stage_director

06-06-2007, 05:01 AM

QUOTE
Judging by older posts which I've skimmed through, it would seem that Rage Director has been claiming for at least a year now, to have some secret damning information against this pastor and his ministry.
END QUOTE

My, that must have been some interesting reading, Abi ... since I only joined FactNet at the end of March, or beginning of April this year ...

stage_director

06-06-2007, 05:14 AM

QUOTE
Rage Director is the Director. He has said so many times right here in these pages. Just ask him
END QUOTE

Well, HELL! Alrighty then! If I'm the Director then Smyrna's outta here!!! Whooohoooo!!

QUOTE
I admit, I'm confused here. I have no clue what you're all talking about. So clue me into what you and aviyah are talking about in this regard. I seem to be missing something here or am I?
END QUOTE

Apparently, her link won't work ... Gee, maybe Shepherd's Chapel banned her? ;-)
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

bluewater2

06-06-2007, 05:32 AM

"Did you ever wonder how this one humble man Jesus has made such an impact on the world in spite of all the vigorous attempts to stomp out Christianity?" I don't think it is the humble man that has made the impact. I think that christianity has grown by brute force and that Jesus himself would not be a christian today based on what I see.

Islam is a much faster growing religion than christianity, younger and larger. It is growing by the same mechanism that drove the growth of christianity. Promotion, promotion, promotion. What scares me most is that they both claim to be the one true way. And they both believe in armageddon. No doubt they will both be involved in seeing that it happens. A religious book predicts it so it will be a battle of religions that make it so.

abiyah

06-06-2007, 01:41 PM

Bluewater WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Gold star for the Jews for not recongnizing Jesus as The Messiah. The prophecies were only fulfilled in the Christian, twisted, version of the jewish Bible, your Old Testament. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

I still find it very disturbing Bluewater attempts to bring anything to this forum, and certainly has NOTHING intelligent to say with regard to The Word of God, whether it be Written in The Old Testament or The New Testament, for he has stated on multiple occassions that he believes in no God. Now apparently he has much time on his hands while is girlfriend is out of the house/apartment, as he had stated in times past how that he reads all her Judaism books and scriptures, and after reading those materials... he comes here to FACTnet and try's to tell us that The Prophecies in The Word of God with regard to The Messiah are not actually Written in the books/scriptures that his girlfriend has, and uses this to tell us that Jesus was not The Messiah... which of course we know is a LIE ! Bluewater even suggested to us that we check out TheJewishVirtualLibrary, which is an online website, which apparently he thought would prove his case. Yet, we KNOW that The Prophecies of God's Saviour, Jesus The Christ align perfectly with The Old Testament. Bluewater even attempted to tell us that The Prophecy Written in Psalm 22 with regard to Jesus crucifixtion was not written in the scriptures in which he was looking at. : ( 

Matthew 22:29
" Jesus answered and Said unto them, ye DO ERR, NOT KNOWING THE SCRIPTURES, NOR THE POWER OF GOD. "

Abiyah

abiyah

06-06-2007, 01:57 PM

Lutheratx WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " S_D said: these tapes are older and weren't copyrighted, and I doubt they'll ever be ... because then the Chapel would have to officially claim them as Murray's. lol

Now you see the SC doesn't even claim these tapes in S_D's own words. So now you have tapes before Pastor Murray was given the forum at SC. Hey didn't the Apostle Paul used to be a persecutor of the church, before his calling? I'm not saying that Jesus talked to Murray on the way to Damascus, I am saying is it possible if these tapes that are so damaging were made before Murray had his eyes open to the truth. Really digging in the past to unearth sin is bad.

John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Imagine if Luke would have rejected Paul.(which many people believe is Paul's scribe) We may not of gotten some of the beautiful works in the New Testament of the bible. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif Very Nice post there brother. 

Lutheratx WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " If you think I wrote my above post and got it to post in 6 minutes you are wrong. In fact factnet would not let me post because I messed up the red and bold and had to figure out what it was explaining to me. I also had to use the Strong's concordance, and I proof read. So here are two post from two different people stating almost the same exact thing. " END
*********************************************** **

Amen !

bluewater2

06-06-2007, 03:25 PM

I don't ever remember asking you to check out the Jewish Virtual Library, but it ia a great idea. And most certainly, Psalm 22 as written in the christian version of the Jewish Bible is not the same as it is written in the Jewish Bible itself. Your large blue letters and tone exude fear and anger, Abi. Relax. Don't be afraid. I'm sure you are well grounded in your beliefs. I have no interest in swaying you from them. I am more interested in sparking thought in those that are not sure what to believe. If I can save just one . . . . . .

abiyah

06-06-2007, 03:42 PM

Stage Director WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " See, Abi ... I'm tired of this battle and tired of SC. I've already debated the doctrine for too many years and presented all the reasons the SC walk isn't Christ's. As a last ditch effort, I'm putting all the audios I have plus all the documents on a public site in the hope it influences even a few to walk away from that soul corrupting false ministry." END
*********************************************** **

Dear Stage:

Have you ever considered that these so-called tapes in which you have are just 'OLD', in that they were an old way of thinking, and the thoughts that may or may NOT be expressed in these so-called tapes are no longer the thoughts presently today by pastor Murray ? I mean... I think everyone at one time has a certain thought or opinion when it comes to The Word of God, and I speak of those who actually Study The Word of God, who later through much prayer for Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding,.... that one is shown the actual Truth of the matter through The Spirit. which leds, guides, and direct us in ALL Truth. Do you see what I mean ? EXAMPLE: Let's just say that a preacher of God's Word teaches that woman should not speak in church let alone teach God's Word, but then later... down the road, the preacher See's, and is Shown through The Grace of God that he was in great err, and The Scriptures then open up to Him through The Spirit, and the preacher then knows and he undertsands that indeed woman did and can teach The Word of God, and that God gives gifts to woman to teach His Word of Truth just as he does men. And the preacher repents to God, and has a change of heart with regard to THAT particular thought and teaching, and then goes on to teach The Truth with regard to the matter. Question... Are we as Christians to HOLD THAT AGAINST him for that for ever ? And after the preacher teaches that Truth FROM God's Word for years and years, are we to bring up his ignorance which was at the first with regard to women teaching God's Word ? Even though he does not teach in such a manner any longer? As the preacher has had a change of heart for many years. Do you get my point here Stage?

Here... my point is this... whatever you have on those so-called really OLD tapes from times past, that is so damaging, well whatever that might be I know pastor Murray no longer teaches this or you would speak of it today, you would not have to dig into the past, and I'm not sure what you have there, but if I have not heard pastor Murray say the things that you claim he said way back when, a long time ago, then I know in my heart Stage, that he has had a change of heart, so you will not trouble my mind with it what-so-ever so-called tapes, no matter what.

This I KNOW, pastor Murray teaches The Word of God, you can not ever drive me AWAY from The Word of The LORD. For certainly we do walk WITH Jesus Christ The Lord, and I'm just sorry you wrestle with understanding that, truly i am.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued

abiyah

06-06-2007, 03:44 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued for Stage Director

Stage... you have stated in the above quote that you are exhausted of 'this' battle [ What battle ? IF you are a Christian, you should not be battling with us Stage, for we are fellow labourers IN Jesus Christ The Lord ], and the battle of SC ? May I... please, simply suggest to you that you rest from your works, because Stage, I speak truthfully to you, your works are not of God, they are empty, and IF you continue in this, you will only hurt yourself in the end. Your endless works with regard to persecuting this man are unfruitful, you are NOT getting any where in this Stage. Think about it.

Pastor Murray is a good man, and a very good teacher of God's Word, he LOVES The LORD and His Christ.... do you not see this man's great love for our Heavenly Father and The Only Begotten Son of God ? No matter WHAT accusation you bring forth, The LORD will NOT allow you to damage this man's good name, or his good works which he has done for The LORD in The Name of His ONLY Begotten Son, Jesus The Christ. God's WILL shall be done here Stage. See then that which IS Written with regard to those who truly love and serve The LORD God WITH ALL THEIR heart, and do so in The Name of Jesus Christ The Lord. Look.

Luke 10:19
" Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; AND NOTHING SHALL BY ANY MEANS HURT YOU. " 

So you see then Stage.... whatever it is you have... it shall not, and even can not harm pastor Murray's character, his character will stand it Stage, for he IS a sincere, and dedicated servant of The Living God, and His Christ.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifAbiyah

bluewater2

06-06-2007, 03:55 PM

"Have you ever considered that these so-called tapes in which you have are just 'OLD', in that they were an old way of thinking, and the thoughts that may or may NOT be expressed in these so-called tapes are no longer the thoughts presently today by pastor Murray?" This so-called "word of god" has been around for awhile now and if people are still trying to figure out what the scriptures really mean, and even those "anointed" by god don't get it, I see that as evidence enough that these words are really those of man.

I am really enjoying those tapes. I know it is not just Pastor Murray that has all of these beliefs in Demons, spirits, angel spirits. Such mysticism. It really is a very strange and interesting world view. Some of the christo-lingo is really quite inventive.

abiyah

06-06-2007, 04:42 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gifBluewater...perhaps these Bible Study tapes will help lead you Home [spiritually speaking within your heart] to The LORD, God Almighty, The Only One True God, and indeed it is Jesus The Christ that shall LED you unto your Heavenly Father, for He is THE ONLY WAY my friend, 'IF' you believe [John 3:16 & John 14:6] in Him, and NOT doubt in your heart, for it is there in your heart that He stands and knocks. 

Revelation 3:20
" Behold, I stand at the door, and knock; IF any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me. " 

Abiyah

bluewater2

06-06-2007, 04:51 PM

"'IF' you believe [John 3:16 & John 14:6] in Him, and NOT doubt in your heart, for it is there in your heart that He stands and knocks." Doubting actually takes place in the mind, where the brain is. The heart pumps blood throughout the body. If my mind doubts things as they are presented yet I force myself to believe anyway, I call that blind faith and being dishonest. I have been to church many times, temple as well and listened to many sermons. I will continue to do so so that I might fully understand the thought processes of people like Mr. Murray and other ministers and priests that are able to reap great financial reward simply for teaching that which can be learned from looking within ones self.

"IF any man hear My Voice, and open the door,. . . " My ears and mind are always wide open to the entertainment of all words and ideas. Thank you for yours.

ihavesinned

06-06-2007, 04:53 PM

"There shall in that time be rumors of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia-work base, that has an attachment. At that time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer, and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."

david_munson

06-06-2007, 05:01 PM

"Also, and you can ask David Munsun about this, I posted on the political forum there too. By the way, where is David?"
---
Sitting on the side just reading my friend.
Yup,
you did post there.

I don't respond to all the posts that I disagree with ,Bruno ,because I have already made my stance clear and those here know my disagreements concerning most of what is stated.

I also do not enter certain threads because of the titles they have been given.(to contenteous)
}

stage_director

06-06-2007, 05:06 PM

Abi, you guys think you know Murray ... that you're "close" to him, one big family. But you don't know him at all. Wasn't it Robert Young who played the television character Marcus Welby back in the 50s? More Americans trusted that ficticious made up character than they did the president! Thousands wrote him asking medical advice, and you know why? Because they couldn't separate the man from the myth. Murray is no different from that ... and he isn't the role you see on television, at your baptisms or at PO. Heck, there were two tape lists until a few years ago. One for you regular supporters ... and one for the "mega supporters" (my term) and the inner circle. What you students have placed on a pedestal is no more real than Marcus Welby, Md, and you that tithe, buy tapes and support PO are account numbers. That's the truth.

skooter942000

06-06-2007, 05:24 PM

,,,LOW REZ (TRUTH)

enoch1

06-06-2007, 05:39 PM

Hello Stage Director,

Your comments are striking me as a bit strange, in regard to how, or even why, SC people don't know Pastor Murray. The SC program is not an entertainment program. Of course the world is full of nuts who relate to TV characters. But the SC, whatever you think about the content, is a serious program, an educational program.
Of course, the SC people do not know him personally. But is it necessary? Did you know all of your professors personally presuming you went to college?
We as Christians also did not know Mathew, Mark, Luke or John either, or even Jesus! We didn't know the early Church Fathers. We don't know the authors of the books we read about Scripture. I really do not know where you are going with this logic.
And their personal lives may be in shambles,(like many artists and other prolific minds) or they may be geniuses and live like saints. Does it really matter? I've seen both categories produce marvelous works.
I think you are just strawgrabbing, I really do.
It is better to stick to your guns, and provide all the material you have been writing about and as in the above, adding to.
To equate Pastor Murray with a ficticious TV character is a bit off the wall.

Get a cold lemonade and retreat to your porch, Stage Director. The heat is getting to you!

CHILL!!

Bruno

stage_director

06-06-2007, 06:22 PM

Bruno, your pastor IS a ficticious TV character, a role put on for an audience.
You know ... a little bit like the role you're playing here.

skooter942000

06-06-2007, 07:01 PM

RE: From an unknown SOURCE ,
(Called Stage Director)
.... Afraid to share a TRUE NAME?

Abi, you guys think you know Murray
... that you're "close" to him,
one big family. But you don't know him at all.

[&]

Bruno, your pastor IS a ficticious TV character,
a role put on for an audience.
You know ... a little bit like the role you're
playing here.

------------------8< ----cut -------------------
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Your words are EVIL LIES.

- May you Reap what you SOW (Stage-D) (IN JESUS HOLY NAME)

HIS FRUIT is seen on AIR (many hours a DAY).

- Your FRUIT here, - is also on display.

(HIS FRUIT IS GOOD) / It stands the TEST

(YOUR FRUIT IS TAINTED) / Bitter and SOUR

Fruit is supposed to be (SWEET).
- Not Bitter, just so you know.

- You are not what you CLAIM to be.
(...As everyone here can plainly see)

- You are the PLAY-ACTOR (here)
(Not a stage director)

- You are a POT stirrer.
(that is not a CHRISTIAN-TRAIT) /see Prov 6

- And GOD tells us HE HATES THIS.
- (Haven't your read, haven't you heard)?

All accusations, with no PROOF
That is your FRUIT
Those are your WORKS

Whisper
Whisper
Whisper

Leave the GOSSIP alone.
Because that's all you do.

You say you don't study with SC,
yet claim to know the MAN better than all here.

- How is this?

Whisper
Whisper
Whisper

- You are a KNOWN LIAR.

(That is where the "TRUTH", - "REALLY LIES") /Pun- Included

Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee,
consent thou not.

Pro 1:11 If they say, Come with us,
let us lay wait for blood,
let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

Pro 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave;
and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

Pro 1:13 We shall find all precious substance,
we shall fill our houses with spoil:

Pro 1:14 Cast in thy lot among us;
let us all have one purse:

Pro 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them;
...refrain thy foot from their path:

Pro 1:16 For their feet run to evil,
and make haste to shed blood.

Pro 1:17 Surely in vain the net is spread
in the sight of any bird.

Pro 1:18 And they lay wait for their [own] blood;
......they lurk privily for their [own] lives.

Pro 1:19 So [are] the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; [which] taketh away the life of the owners thereof.

[GROUP]

Let's all beware of satan's LIES,
'he' works through many.

- But he has no POWER over, 'us' CHRISTIANS. (Luke 10:18-19)

IN CHRIST'S HOLY NAME:

The LORD REBUKE (you) satan,
THE LORD REBUKE ALL WHO SERVE you , here and now.

(AMEN & AMEN)

"JESUS CHRIST" Is The "LIVING WORD"

[i_H_s]

...Don <*))><

watchman_2

06-06-2007, 07:37 PM

stage_director's comments to abiyah are premised upon a false assumption.

I think it is fair to say that SCers love the Word of God, and idolize no man. Hence, it is not that important to know PM personally.

Whereas, stage_director and her like-minded detractors evaluate the veracity of the teachings on the aura/presence of the preacher/teacher. To these people, how he talks and walks, conducts his personal business, his education, and, oh yes, his assets are all appropriate topics.

If, an only if, the preacher/teacher conforms to all of the peripheral things that these people think is important, will they listen to what is taught. The message is secondary to the peripheral issues.

Stage_director and her like-minded detractors are all idol worshippers.

enoch1

06-06-2007, 08:14 PM

Hello Watchman!

Those are good points, Watchman.
I was somewhat surprised by Stage Director's comments, which she supplied rather than an actual rebuttal.
But really, what possible rebuttal could she have, after comparing a TV minister to a ficticious TV personality. If she would have been joking, fine. But she was actually serious.
Just perhaps, she realized what a poor comparison that was. But whatever the reason, she chose to play the "I think you are really so and so game" as a diversion.
I authored a comment this morning which addresses these issues. Also when I move down the list of SC discussions, and check out the way some of them ended, by that I mean they are no longer paid any attention by further postings, you get a pretty good idea of what goes on here.
The telling thing is that the Cultbusters are usually the ones left holding the bag.
Here is just a short list, because I'm not going to go through all of them:

Stand And Deliver

Stage Director could not address the list of undocumented allegations by Watchman, and also would not answer simple questions by Terluvire.

Some New Mystery Bagged

Ended with Aviyah addressing Stage Director, showing her accusation that she was confusing the Word of God with the Companion Bible Appendices was quite simply incorrect.That I find a bit disingenuous on Stage Director's part.

CB's "illogical_Al" ("Observer")Botches Satan "Study"

Ended with Smyrna thanking Arron for his open complaint about being censored at Cultbusters.Also had a very humorous spoof by Smyrna about Godchild and Stage Director being superheros.

A Question for Ungodly-child

Ended with Skooter's revulsion of all the foul language used by Godchild, and with no answers to the question posted to her.

If one goes down the line, it becomes clear that the Cultbusters will not come back to discussions that include and refutation of their comment, or questions, or otherwise have the veracity of their comments called into question. This is very unfortunate for them, that this situation exists.

Bruno

rachelengland

06-06-2007, 08:30 PM

I haven't seen Smyrna in a long while....is he okay? I hope he gets back before this place closes down!

IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!!! Asia sang that I think?

terluvire

06-06-2007, 08:46 PM

Hi Rachel,

I think Smyrna is off at work. I also hope he makes it back here before FN shuts down.

saygoodnightgracie

06-06-2007, 09:03 PM

"IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!!! Asia sang that I think?"

Oh nooooo.... Asia (who are still touring, with walkers and canes) was much worse than this!

rachelengland

06-06-2007, 09:16 PM

Who sang that song??? I sure thought it was Asia! I'm going to google that

IT WAS EUROPE..Hey I had a continent at least..

Thank you terluvire if Smyrna does not make it back tell him I said hi!

franklin

06-06-2007, 09:34 PM

Oh never fear! smearna's here! Just using different names, different proxys. Same old smearna though. Same ol' crap! He can't disguise that skunky scent! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

skooter942000

06-06-2007, 09:58 PM

So Franklin, i answered your Question.

When are you going to answer mine?

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/31737.html?1181147008

Did you listen to the WHOLE TAPES?
Did you write down those words (yourself)?

Or did you copy that INFO, and just pass it along.
(To slander Pastor Murray) - A BELIEVER OF YESHUA MESSIAH.

- (You do know what heresay is) , right?

- be the 'MAN' (answer the Question).

- No LIES ALLOWED ,
- (GOD IS ALWAYS WATCHING)

CHRISTIANS are supposed to be HONEST
(you claim to be CHRISTIAN, so act like one)

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

lutheratx

06-06-2007, 10:05 PM

Wow does Blue water have a revelation that is going to steer the church into non belief. Lets look.

Bluewater writes: This so-called "word of god" has been around for awhile now and if people are still trying to figure out what the scriptures really mean, and even those "anointed" by god don't get it, I see that as evidence enough that these words are really those of man.

Back to me: Wait no he doesn't steer us away from the word of God. You see many of the end time prophecies had not yet taken place. Even prophets had to ask angels what the visions meant, and still were trying hard to even figure that out. You see God speaks to the generation he wants to. (another proof of predistination, and God's plan) Things have got to be put in motion before we as humans can even start to grasp a super intellegence.

Blue Water and friends want to believe we came from monkeys. Ok why did the monkeys, and man make it through this catastrophic event which killed the dinosaurs, but the missing link that science would be able to link the two together, through dna, didn't make it. Was there a monkey a man and a mix (monkey and man) sitting around the fire when this event took place, and a rock fell out of the sky crushing the mix, and the monkey looked at the man and said, "holy crap they just killed kinney?,"

You know I've actually said enough to you BW, I will no longer entertain you after today. You may start to slap me in my face, and you will recieve the other cheek.

ihavesinned

06-06-2007, 11:04 PM

"Ok why did the monkeys, and man make it through this catastrophic event which killed the dinosaurs, but the missing link that science would be able to link the two together, through dna, didn't make it."

This is not even close. The largest mammal known to have survived the extinction that wiped out the dinosaurs were the size of chickens. The earliest proto humans arrive on the scene approx 4 million years ago. Some 60 million years after the last dinosaurs.

Do you people think there were people and dinosaurs around at the same time?

BW raises a valid point that i've raised over and over : Why is there no unity when it comes to interpreting this infallible word of god?

lutheratx

06-06-2007, 11:48 PM

So there wasn't a catastrophic event and the mixed being died of old age. Thanks for clearing that up, you see I thought for sure you guys believed a catastrophic event killed the link. Wait the humans were able to make it, the monkeys were able to make it, but no monkey man. Where is monkey man and what happened to monkey man? Ah good points indeed, but why are monkeys not still evolving, they have exposure to humans in zoos you would think by watch us they would start walking up right isn't evolution learning.

Do I believe man walked with the dinosaurs, not even close. I do believe there was an event that not even chicken like animals made it through, it was the Katabole. I believe the first man, flesh body, was 8 thousand years ago, and I could be off a thousand years. As for your question why is the no unity?

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Could this famine have something to do with it? You have indeed sinned, you can not have doubt or God will not give you truth. What are these good points so I can cut them to pieces with the truth. Lets go, I'm up for it.

Just remember one thing God will give you the truth very quickly if you believe on him. Come in the sanctuary IHS.

Holla at your boy
Lutheratx

watchman_2

06-07-2007, 12:00 AM

ihavesinned wrote:
*****
BW raises a valid point that i've raised over and over : Why is there no unity when it comes to interpreting this infallible word of god?
*****

I see little uniformity in the religion of the atheist either. Some evolutionists say life began from a bolt of lightning in the primordial soup of chemicals. Others say it was a comet impact with earth. Some say it was molten lava in the oceans. They have so many disagreement among themselves.

Some of the real clever ones try to claim that life was the result of seeding process by space aliens. Of course, these geniuses never get around to thinking about how the space aliens came into existence -- evolution or creation.

lutheratx

06-07-2007, 12:03 AM

Ive also heard the one about the monkey and the human go into a bar. They both evovled from the same species one evovled into a highly intellegent species were the other one must have done just the opposite or couldn't become highly intellegent. They both order Mi Ti's. Have you heard that one.

I kid but it is a joke to me. I hope it isn't to offensive, but maybe just a little offensive.

enoch1

06-07-2007, 01:01 AM

Franklin,

I have a confession to make. That is, if you do not tell anyone. Ok, everyone skip this post, so I can just tell Franklin this.
Franklin, I'm really:

Stage Director!
I had you all fooled! Ha ha! Isn't that cool? I am Stage Director. Doesn't that make sense to you!
But wait, I have to get it all off my chest. I'm also:
Terluvire! Yes, it's me!
I'm also:
Godchild! Yes, that's right, I'm Godchild!
Don't go away yet. I also am:
Neil, the admin from Cultbusters! Yes, that's right, I'm Neil! Freshly back from my trip!
Ok, one more. You would never guess this one.
I'm.....Watchman2!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah brother, I am Watchman2!!!!!! You NEVER would have guessed it!
Being all those people, I pretty much populate this forum.
"My name is legion, for we are many."
I hope this puts an end to all the speculation, Mr. Franklin. You should thank "all of us" for demystifying the discussion boards here.
Now maybe you will answer Skooter's question. NOT!

Sincerely,

Bruno (yeah, I'm him too!)

oneway

06-07-2007, 01:57 AM

"I have a confession to make. That is, if you do not tell anyone. Ok, everyone skip this
post, so I can just tell Franklin this.
Franklin, I'm really:

Stage Director!
I had you all fooled! Ha ha! Isn't that cool? I am Stage Director. Doesn't that make
sense to you!
But wait, I have to get it all off my chest. I'm also:
Terluvire! Yes, it's me!
I'm also:
Godchild! Yes, that's right, I'm Godchild!
Don't go away yet. I also am:
Neil, the admin from Cultbusters! Yes, that's right, I'm Neil! Freshly back from my trip!
Ok, one more. You would never guess this one."

I don't happen to know which scer you are, not that it matters to me. Your style pretty much reminds me of smyrna. It's pretty odd that smyrna isn't here but you are. Of course if you want to be honest and prove that you have fooled us all, then post with your real IP instead of using http://zroxi.com/giproxy/nph-proxy.pl/000000A/. Of course you're not going to do that.

stage_director

06-07-2007, 02:20 AM

How did you know Neil is on a trip if you're banned from Cultbusters? He just left a few days ago ...

wls

06-07-2007, 02:55 AM

According to reverse DNS, Enoch1's ISP is "GNAX.NET", based in Marietta, Georgia.

bluewater2

06-07-2007, 03:08 AM

Hey Luther. Did I say that man came from monkeys? I don't remember saying that. Please direct me to that statement. Or are you just putting words into my mouth? Thank you for your reply. Then you can turn the other cheek.

oneway

06-07-2007, 03:29 AM

"According to reverse DNS, Enoch1's ISP is "GNAX.NET", based in Marietta, Georgia."

Ok. Then go here http://zroxi.com/giproxy/nph-proxy.pl/000000A/ and type ' http://myip.dk/ ' into the URL thing and hit the 'begin browsing' button. Then see which IP address shows up at http://myip.dk/.

franklin

06-07-2007, 04:45 AM

You've got it oneway. It's our old name calling cyberstalker/hacker/SCer nemesis smyrna/bruno/enoch1/saygoodnightgracie/getagrip/franvagosity/Jesusislord..... and now roustabout on cb. The guy of many faces/user names/proxy isps but the same old smearna.

ihavesinned

06-07-2007, 06:02 AM

" I see little uniformity in the religion of the atheist either. Some evolutionists say life began from a bolt of lightning in the primordial soup of chemicals. Others say it was a comet impact with earth. Some say it was molten lava in the oceans. They have so many disagreement among themselves. "

Atheists don't proclaim to possess the infallible word of god. Christians do, so we would expect more consistency in their interpretation of the "word". As evidenced by this thread, that is far from being the case. I guess either the word is not that of god, or it is not infallible. Infallible implies everyone gets the same meaning 100% of the time.

PS:
Atheism does not imply some knowledge or theory of how life began on earth, only a lack of belief in god. Try and keep up.}

stage_director

06-07-2007, 06:30 AM

GNAX = Global Net Access, LLC, Atlanta, GA
NET RANGE 209.51.128.0 - 209.51.159.255

His ip above: 72.9.255.122 www01.pdaden.com
Global Net Access, LLC, Atlanta, GA
Registrant is zxpro.com, Hong Kong
NET RANGE 72.9.224.0 - 72.9.255.255

Going through 63.216.0.0 - 63.223.255.255
Beyond the Network America, Inc., Hong Kong

stage_director

06-07-2007, 08:33 AM

IHS ... this is something from the Taking it Off the Shelf site. I'm not arguing your disbelief in God, but addressing something you said about the lack of uniformity in doctrines:

From TIOTS:

"The Strong's lists basic word forms, but the words can be written multiple ways, i.e. with a prefix, a suffix, some small article or addition that defines the exact meaning of the word so that only one of the Strong's definitions can apply.

Here's an example:

Take the modern Greek word 'psych.' (psuche in the ancient Greek) From it we get:

psych: the Greek word for soul

psyche: the mind; vital principle

psych: to intimidate or make uneasy; or to outguess

psycho: short for psychopath, a deranged person

psychal: of or pertaining to the soul

psych- : mind, mental processes and activities

psychic: relating to the psyche, or sensitive to non physical or supernatural forces.

Chances are in the Strong's the word 'psych' would have been the only form of the word actually listed in the Concordance, but with all of the definitions.

It might read:

Psych: the soul, the mind, vital principle, intimidate, mental process, sensitive to supernatural forces.

Let's say I want to know what the word 'psychic' means in the sentence, 'She used her psychic abilities to tell them where the victim was.'

When I check the Strong's number for this word 'psychic' most likely only the basic word 'psych' is going to be listed with all of the definitions, like I illustrated above. But we know that only one definition can be right. I am going to have to go beyond the Strong's to a Lexicon to see how the word is actually written. I would see that it is not 'psych' or 'psycho' or 'psyche' but is in fact 'psychic.' And only the exact definition of 'psychic' can apply to the sentence.

In the Greek of the bible there are suffixes, prefixes and word combinations that limit the definition of a word in a specific instance just as there are today in modern Greek. For instance, a past tense adds a 'prefix'. The Strong's doesn't necessarily differenciate between these slight changes of word, but lists the basic word and the multiple meanings of all forms of the word. To know which tense, form of the word or definition applies to a verse one must go to a tool such as the Thayer's that illistrates the different forms of the basic word.

The Greek words are not pick and choose what one wants from the Strong's to support a doctrine, but are case sensitive and specific according to how a word is written. The Strong's only provides the basic form of word, but the articles, suffixes and prefixes, and the way it is written, cements into place the only one of the definitions that can ever apply."
(used by permission)

IHS ... to me, when one reads the bible in it's near original context without the preconceived ideas that support one's own theology, it has little resemblance to what many Christians "authorities" claim it to be ... it was never meant to be used only as a gauge to measure the inadequacies in everyone else, but as a means for examination of self ... so that we learn how to love everyone else. As you may have noticed from your observation of Christians ... the act of "sharing" the bible is in itself a revealer of a person ...

saygoodnightgracie

06-07-2007, 10:42 AM

"It's our old name calling cyberstalker/hacker/SCer nemesis smyrna/bruno/enoch1/saygoodnightgracie/getagrip/franvagosity/Jesusislord..... and now roustabout on cb. The guy of many faces/user names/proxy isps but the same old smearna."

Glenn:

I have stated several times that to mess with you (in particular), I played at the Fragosity thing, I was banned as GAG due to an honest posting mistake )which I discussed with admin here and was reinstated), and began posting as SGNG.

I have also stated to you, Munson, Mitch and Admin there that I am Roustabout on Cultbusters. That's who I am. I've never lied about who I am, if I was Smyrna or Bruno I would say so.

I don't know who Smyrna is but I miss reading his posts here, he's a lot of fun on a rainy day in Naples. I don't know who Bruno/Enoch is either but didn't he say he was both? I'm sorry I don't know who Jesus Is Lord is, but Cope says that all the time when he signs off on his Believers Voice of Victory telecast.

GLENN!!! I see your mind racing! Now don't start saying I am smyrna/bruno/enoch1/saygoodnightgracie/getagrip/franvagosity/Jesusislord/roustabout AND Kenneth Copeland!!!...

You're too funny Glenn! You're a knee slapper, a real cutup, quite the prankster! I like that and I like you! You take me back to the days of Happy Kyne and the Mirthmakers!!!

PS I loved that PM you sent me on CB, where you said "I'm watching you"... That was cool, I pictured you like DeNiro in "Meet the Parents" doing the two finger point at Stiller, holding Jinx the cat.

I love you Glenn and I loved hearing from you.

PPS You keep using the words "we" and "our" ("our old name calling cyberstalker"), do you have a posse like 50 Cent and The Game?

franklin

06-07-2007, 11:28 AM

You were banned for terrorizing a factnet member. Calling their place of employment. Threatening to reveal more personal information about them. Despicable. You are bucking to get banned again by your continual harassment.

Are you here to continue to personally harass people?

You promised you would not anymore.

Or are you here to defend the SCers calling Jews the spawn of Satan?

saygoodnightgracie

06-07-2007, 11:40 AM

"You were banned for terrorizing a factnet member." Categorically untrue, ask Mr. Factnet.

You are a lot of fun Glenn, I love talking with you. Keep up the great work and have an awesome day!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

saygoodnightgracie

06-07-2007, 12:45 PM

Glenn:

Seriously, I go away and try to leave you alone. Your response to this is to say that I am Smyrna, a cyberstalker and to comment on something that you know nothing about (my being banned).

Then, when I simply respond to these falsehoods, I am "despicable", a "cyberstalker" and here to "harass people".

Your own folks on CB are writing posts about how wrong it is to act like this, people like the Admin guy, Dave Munson, Big Mitch, etc.

You complain about "Scers" sneaking onto Cultbusters and posting with fake identities... I go there, tell you and the Admin guy EXACTLY who I am and that I am simply there to read; - and you send me a Private Message stating "Still cyberstalking I see smyrna/bruno/getagrip/franvaogisty/saygoodnightgracie/now roustabout. Haven't you got enough to do defending SC as smyrna to keep you busy? But noooooo you just keep following people around, keep coming back using different masquerade names. I'm watching you."

Who is stalking who? Who is harassing who? Glenn, do you have any clue how irrational and illogical you come across to people on Factnet?
I'm supposed to keep a promise to leave you alone but you are going to continue to post lies about me? You are very odd, listen to your friends - they are trying to help you.

I respect the guy who runs CB and do nothing there other than read (as I've said, I enjoy Munson's, RLS's and Aaron's posts), send a few PM's and I made a strong suggestion to him (Admin) the other day to perhaps add some balance to his moderating staff - as he suffers from lack of membership due to your presence there and what many view as a lack of objectivity.

Let's try to do this.. I'll leave you alone AND while I am leaving you alone, you try not to post about lies about me, who I am, usernames and why I was banned from Factnet. I am totally up for that, what do you say?

lutheratx

06-07-2007, 01:46 PM

Blue water: Hey Luther. Did I say that man came from monkeys? I don't remember saying that. Please direct me to that statement. Or are you just putting words into my mouth? Thank you for your reply. Then you can turn the other cheek.

Me again: Alright.

terluvire

06-07-2007, 01:51 PM

Hi SGNG,

Very good post!

Quote:
Who is stalking who? Who is harassing who? Glenn, do you have any clue how irrational and illogical you come across to people on Factnet?
I'm supposed to keep a promise to leave you alone but you are going to continue to post lies about me? You are very odd, listen to your friends - they are trying to help you.

Franklin does this because words have different meanings to him than they do to the rest of the world.

I love Smyrna's list of definitions for some of the CBers. I just wish I could find it now to post it here. It explains the mindset of Franklin and those like him. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

franklin

06-07-2007, 01:59 PM

The Shepherd's Chapel cult has it's own code words. Having different meaning to them than the rest of the world.

So next time you read a SCer say they love Jews realize what they are really saying. What they are really saying is "We love Germans."

Arnoldian/Orwellian Newspeak:

We love Jews = We love Germans

We're not antisemitic = We're antisemitic.

We don't hate Jews = We hate Jews.

We love Judah = We love Germany = We hate Israel.

That is the truth about SC and their beliefs.

Everything they say is deception. Smoke and mirrors.

saygoodnightgracie

06-07-2007, 02:05 PM

Hi Ter:

I feel bad for him, he is down to only one or two people on CB that feel his style is anything vaguely resembling Christianity but he is so self-righteous and self-absorbed that he has to continue - rather than admit he is wrong and change.

I am going to try to ignore him, but it is just so odd how his mind operates. He wants me to leave HIM alone, but he wants to make all manner of all false accusations against ME.. and of course, expects me to stay quiet.

Thank you for your note, I have to tell you that I saw Abi or Avi mentioning that they would sign up at CB if Factnet closed, I wouldn't unless the Admin there brings SOME balance to his staff of moderators... I mean Glenn is hardly objective or reasonable enough to be a moderator who operates with integrity or fairness.

It's a shame too, it (CB) would be such a good site without Glenn's influence...

lutheratx

06-07-2007, 02:08 PM

I have sinned: Atheists don't proclaim to possess the infallible word of god. Christians do, so we would expect more consistency in their interpretation of the "word". As evidenced by this thread, that is far from being the case. I guess either the word is not that of god, or it is not infallible. Infallible implies everyone gets the same meaning 100% of the time.

1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

I love the way atheist say they have read the bible over and over again and then they post something like this, that the bible clearly explains. Also I posted earlier about the famine for the word of God in Amos 8vs11 this famine comes about through deceit. You see the confusion about God's word is to fulfill prophesy. Look friends I'm not as nice as I should be to atheist. However we are in a time that we should get tough and not be pushed around. Also Blue Water made a good point I don't know what an atheist believes, however I have seen atheist tell me they have read the bible over and over. Then they hit me with a attempt to find flaw and it doesn't work. I've always had an answer and most times they don't listen to, or see the truth.

terluvire

06-07-2007, 02:18 PM

I hear what you're saying SGNG.

It's like when Franklin tells us we're wolfpacking. Heck, he's on our threads attacking us...lolololol What does he expect...lol

Or when he or one of his buddies posts here with attacks and one of us respond, they will say something like...."oh look who showed up"..lol What in the world do they expect??? lol They are posting on our threads...lol

And I agree, if Abiyah did post at CB, she wouldn't last too long. As soon as she would disagree, she would be banned.

I can't even read the SC threads at CB anymore and I don't even post there. I use to be able to read until they figured out who I was, and to no surprise, I can't anymore.

Franklin and gc have made CB become a hate board for SC. They can hardly post at CB without eventually bringing SC into it. They are obsessed with us!! And their paranoia is running rampant over there. They must be thinking every newbie is one of us...lol And you know what, it's their own fault. If they would conduct themselves in a manner the site was set up for, it wouldn't be happening.

You're right, Franklin is not the best choice for a moderator. He already thinks he's God. His ego makes him unable to handle the job effectively.

lutheratx

06-07-2007, 02:21 PM

One last thing I have sinned you being an atheist you have to know the world is more than 6010 years old right. How come most Christians deny this fact and claim it is 6010. You didn't want to believe false religion congradulations. I tell you what, you watch Shepherds Chapel with Arnold Murray and find flaws with his teachings. There are going to be post by these people here to try and prevent you from hearing the message. Or they will give a tape which is probally doctored because you see they are the enemy of AM. I'm not going to candy coat it. You make up your own mind. You find out what happened to the dinosaurs, you can even find out why we live in these flesh bodies. Please just give the teaching a chance. Its Not just salvation doctrine you have heard all your life it is the entire book and it is b-e-a-utiful. You have a chance, God is not a God of hell fire, even if Blue water doesn't make it(not saying he wont) he will not be tortured for and eternity this is another false teaching. Do you see how appealing the truth really is.

terluvire

06-07-2007, 02:24 PM

SGNG,

You're right, Franklin will NEVER admit when he is wrong.

The biggest issue that sticks out in my mind is when Franklin tried to insinuate that Angie and I were using FN to pick up men. When he was proven wrong, not one apology came out of that man's mouth.

He claims all kinds of stuff against us even when the evidence is clear he is wrong. He somehow feels it is ok.

That is not how a Christian behaves.

franklin

06-07-2007, 02:34 PM

Whenever you stop accusing the REAL Jews, not the fake wannabe Jews (Germans/Gaelics), of being the spawn of satan then the darkness that smothers your soul will depart and the light of the Holy Spirit will enter and you will feel remorse for all of the hateful slander you have said against the Jews. That day is coming for you terluvire. God will find a way past arnie and enter your heart.

abiyah

06-07-2007, 02:58 PM

Franklin WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Whenever you stop accusing the REAL Jews, not the fake wannabe Jews (Germans/Gaelics), of being the spawn of satan then the darkness that smothers your soul will depart and the light of the Holy Spirit will enter and you will feel remorse for all of the hateful slander you have said against the Jews. That day is coming for you terluvire. God will find a way past arnie and enter your heart. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** *

F-R-A-N-K-L-I-N...... LISTEN

Matthew 7:3
" And why beholdest thou the mote that is in in thy brother's eye, but considerest NOT THE BEAM THAT IS IN THINE OWN EYE [ =your spiritual eye(s) ] ? "

Matthew 7:4
" Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; AND, BEHOLD[ =LOOK! ], A BEAM IS IN THINE OWN EYE ? "

Matthew 7:5
" Thou hypocrite, FIRST [ ... DO THIS FIRST FRANKLIN ] cast THE BEAM OUT OF THINE OWN EYE; and then shalt thou SEE CLEARLY to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye [ Think spiritual, spritually speaking here ]. "

terluvire

06-07-2007, 03:07 PM

Franklin said:
Whenever you stop accusing the REAL Jews, not the fake wannabe Jews (Germans/Gaelics), of being the spawn of satan then the darkness that smothers your soul will depart and the light of the Holy Spirit will enter and you will feel remorse for all of the hateful slander you have said against the Jews. That day is coming for you terluvire. God will find a way past arnie and enter your heart.

Wow, you really do think you are God!!!

Franklin, again, I am Jewish.

LOL You yell at us because of your poor reading skills..lol You say the Jews are the spawn of satan, not us..lol Kenites are not Jews.

Kenites are of Cain. Jews are of Judah.

Sorry Franklin, I will never believe Gen.3:15 is speaking of us crushing snake eggs and them biting our feet...lolol Oh, but that's right, you have the truth. lololololololol

Go back to CB and play spaceman. You do much better there. Here, you are just a joke for the readers.

Why don't you take a good look at Abiyah's post and take heed to God's words.

ihavesinned

06-07-2007, 04:19 PM

"IHS ... to me, when one reads the bible in it's near original context without the preconceived ideas that support one's own theology, it has little resemblance to what many Christians "authorities" claim it to be ... it was never meant to be used only as a gauge to measure the inadequacies in everyone else, but as a means for examination of self ... "

I have to tell you Stage Director, this sounds more reasonable to me than what I hear from most people here. Are you a christian? I usually here from christians that the bible is the infallible word of god, which seems unlikely to me.

Somebody the other day read out loud something to me from the book or numbers. It was a list of rules about when it was okay to seek revenge on somebody for killing one of your family members.

It went into all kind of detail, like ax heads coming off, bulls goring neighbors, rocks falling off cliffs, etc. I have to tell you I laughed out loud. Is this what the creator of the cosmos busied himself with?

I am always astonished about claims that the bible is the word of god, when the author's names are right at the top of the page. I think parts of the book of Timothy were taken from a letter some guy wrote while he was in jail. Now suddenly that was written by god??? I believe the anti-homosexual people rely heavily on that letter to justify their activities.

On a side note, it looks like my spoof thread has turned into an actual discussion...}}

saygoodnightgracie

06-07-2007, 04:42 PM

It would go back to spoof quickly if someone would refer to you "ibrokewind"...

I, however, would never stoop to such antics. I thought it was a good title for a thread ibw.

ihavesinned

06-07-2007, 04:54 PM

My handle is an homage to Jimmy Swaggart. Although it's getting a little worn, maybe I'll change my name to beersinheaven, or Leroy Jenkins, after all he's my all time favorite...

What's with your handle?

bluewater2

06-07-2007, 05:15 PM

Hey Luthey, are you going to admit you misspoke saying that I said man came from monkeys?

trainedobserver

06-07-2007, 05:38 PM

"... man came from monkeys?"

Nonsense. Men come from women. I've seen it happen. They pop right out of them screaming and pitching a fit.

franklin

06-07-2007, 06:08 PM

There are NO kenites. There are no literal spawn of Satan in the world. Never has been.

So when you call people who the world knows as Jews "kenites" meaning they are the literal spawn of Satan, in the real world, not in your Lord of the Rings/Tolkien/Murray fantasy world, then you are saying that JEWS ARE THE LITERAL SPAWN OF SATAN!

THAT IS HATE SPEECH! THAT IS ANTI SEMITISM!

skooter942000

06-07-2007, 06:13 PM

A Pink Floyd song is coming to mind because of the recent posts....

- Guess which one.

Hint:

.....Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!

L-O-L

Franklin is not an honest person,
nor a goodly follower of CHRIST JESUS.

He cannot answer my question, when i took the time to answer his.

- About those so_called tapes.

Franklin,
(...it is you that needs to leave GOD'S KID'S alone).

- Minus the [ LOL ]

- And stop helping our Enemy (I.E. satan)

A few goodly verses to NOTE,
- concerning Franklin's Silence.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your 'hearts:
and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to
every man that asketh you a reason of the hope
that is in you with meekness and fear:

1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that,
whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers,
they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your
good conversation in Christ. 

I'll not ask this again, so not to Embarrass Franklin """_Further_""" ,

- (In his so_called WALK), with CHRIST.

So this is the last chance you have,
to be a stand-up guy.
(Concerning the Questions i have asked respectfully)

- A REAL CHRISTIAN would TRUTHFULLY answer them.
(...GOD is WATCHING)

Don <*))><

rachelengland

06-07-2007, 06:17 PM

can I just post a few notes...

TO that was hilarious...pop right out pitching a fithttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

Skooter listening to Pink Floyd...that must be a sight to see..a good one that ishttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

BW don't hold your breath..though I am sure you're good at it..

Franklin ...don't hold yours either..

Have a good day all of you-enjoy life!

skooter942000

06-07-2007, 06:33 PM

Franklin States,
- In his own words

There are NO kenites.

------------
----------------------
-------------------------------

- a Broken record.

The PROGENY OF CAIN EXIST.

- R_YOU TRYING TO KILL THEM OFF?

- May i ask why?

satan is all about deception.

- He has many in his camp.

Next you will be saying satan does not EXIST,
(.....ohhhh, wait someone has already done this)?

....Now who was that?

You know little of what you speak of Franklin.
So perhaps you should stop with the MIS-TRUTHS.

Stop confusing the SHEEP with mis-information.

Prove there are no KENITES?

- (USE THE WORD OF GOD)

You are not working for CHRIST,
- but against CHRIST.

- And that is not a GOOD-WORK.

Here is PROOF they Existed
- Long after the FLOOD.
(And guess what they still do to this day)

(kenites)
occurs 8 times in 7 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Gen 15:19 - 1Ch 2:55)

Gen 15:19 The Kenites 07017, and the Kenizzites 07074, and the Kadmonites 06935,

Num 24:21 And he looked 07200 on the Kenites 07017, and took up 05375 his parable 04912, and said 0559 , Strong 0386 is thy dwellingplace 04186, and thou puttest 07760 thy nest 07064 in a rock 05553.

Jdg 4:11 Now Heber 02268 the Kenite 07017, [which was] of the children 01121 of Hobab 02246 the father in law 02859 of Moses 04872, had severed 06504 himself from the Kenites 07017, and pitched 05186 his tent 0168 unto the plain 0436 of Zaanaim 06815, which [is] by Kedesh 06943.

1Sa 15:6 And Saul 07586 said 0559 unto the Kenites 07017, Go 03212 , depart 05493 , get you down 03381 from among 08432 the Amalekites 06002, lest I destroy 0622 you with them: for ye shewed 06213 kindness 02617 to all the children 01121 of Israel 03478, when they came up 05927 out of Egypt 04714. So the Kenites 07017 departed 05493 from among 08432 the Amalekites 06003.

1Sa 27:10 And Achish 0397 said 0559 , Whither 0408 have ye made a road 06584 to day 03117? And David 01732 said 0559 , Against the south 05045 of Judah 03063, and against the south 05045 of the Jerahmeelites 03397, and against the south 05045 of the Kenites 07017.

1Sa 30:29 And to [them] which [were] in Rachal 07403, and to [them] which [were] in the cities 05892 of the Jerahmeelites 03397, and to [them] which [were] in the cities 05892 of the Kenites 07017,

1Ch 2:55 And the families 04940 of the scribes 05608 which dwelt 03427 03427 at Jabez 03258; the Tirathites 08654, the Shimeathites 08101, [and] Suchathites 07756. These 01992 [are] the Kenites 07017 that came 0935 of Hemath 02574, the father 01 of the house 01004 of Rechab 07394.

They are the SCRIBES that worked their way into the PRIEST-HOOD.

- These are the ONES that MURDERED CHRIST.
(they intermixed into JUDAH/...THE JEWS)

7017 Qeyniy kay-nee' or Qiyniy (1 Chron. 2:55) {kee-nee'}; patronymic from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin:--Kenite.

Don <*))><

skooter942000

06-07-2007, 06:36 PM

patronymic
noun

1. A name derived from one's father's or other male ancestor's name, usually with a suffix or prefix, as in Donaldson or Macdonald, or the Russian Davidovich or Davidovna.
Compare matronymic.

david_munson

06-07-2007, 07:13 PM

Not to argue with you.
I just believe that Christ came to die.
On purpose.

It says that he laid His own life down and that nobody takes it from Him.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

I just wonder how you square this with your assertion that anyone murdered Christ when it says that He laid His own life down and has power to take it up again?

Doesn't that seem to you to express that it was "our' sin that was what actually slew Him?

That He died in our place to me means that you and I where the ones that caused His death regardless of who was "used" to carry out His plan.

Or,
I wonder if maybe you depend upon works for acceptance?
Just asking.

}

saygoodnightgracie

06-07-2007, 07:36 PM

"beersinheaven" is nice or "queersatseven" - like an evening news show on Bravo...

ihavesinned

06-07-2007, 09:32 PM

"Not to argue with you.
I just believe that Christ came to die.
On purpose. "

If you buy into christianity at all, how can this even be debated? Of course he came to die, how else does the rest of the story hold up? Did somebody get the jump on god?

"queersatseven" ? I'm not sure I follow, but then again, I'm not that bright.

trainedobserver

06-07-2007, 09:48 PM

"Franklin is not an honest person,
nor a goodly follower of CHRIST JESUS. "

Oh my eyes! (falls backwards flaying at his face like it's on fire)

franklin

06-07-2007, 09:56 PM

As long as the SCers, atheists and wofers hate me I know I am on the right path to God.

ihavesinned

06-07-2007, 10:00 PM

God hates you too. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

trainedobserver

06-07-2007, 10:00 PM

That's right franklin, keep spanking that monkey.

rachelengland

06-07-2007, 10:19 PM

••••

skooter942000

06-07-2007, 10:57 PM

Franklin i do not hate you.

But the word PITY comes to mind when i think of you.

...Knowing what LIES ahead.
(If you do not Change your WAYS).

= Discernment (Not JUDGMENT)

- You don't have to HATE others, (like you do).
= Why do you feel the need to LIE?

People can differ on opinion and still be friendly.
- (But not YOU), ...so it seems.

Everyone who disagrees with you, is in a CULT.
- (Does this hold true of CHRIST)?

- The TRUTHS we share, come from HIM.
(Come from the Bible)

- yet you do all you can to KICK AGAINST THEM!!!

No i do not hate you,
- (But i really do PITY you).

You "almost" [ 'know not what you do'] .
- ( i said almost )

- a stand up guy you would be more honest. (With what you say)

You know of what i am addressing here.
(Without saying it again), as i promised.

Trying to gain Favor from others, will not work.
- WE do not HATE THE SINNER, (but the SIN).
(At least this is how i feel).

Dave we have discussed this have we not?

CHRIST came to DIE,
but HE WAS STILL MURDERED.

- Did HE die a NATURAL DEATH , (Think HARD).

MANKIND placed HIM upon the CROSS.
Those who were there are more accountable than ANY.

- HE did not JUMP UP ON IT HIMSELF!!!

- LIARS LIED,
...AND HE SHUT HIS MOUTH.

- For us all

The LAMB of GOD was SLAIN,
HE did not take HIS own life.

(And we were not in the CROWD crying (CRUCIFY HIM).

But HE did pay a PRICE we ourselves could not.
(For we all fall short and SIN at times).

- BUT NOT HIM!!!

We are not the ONES who LIED to the magistrate.
(HIS BLOOD is not upon my head), like the Scriptures state.

The CROWD had TARES in the midst of them.
And they are the ONES who MURDERED CHRIST.
They are the ONES TRUELY ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS ACT.

HIS BLOOD IS UPON THEIR HEADS.
THAT IS THE TRUTH OF THIS MATTER.

Though we all have our part as to WHY HE NEEDED TO COME AND DIE ,
- (FOR US ALL).

Don <*))><

lutheratx

06-07-2007, 11:19 PM

Hey Luthey, are you going to admit you misspoke saying that I said man came from monkeys?

me again :I miss spoke you never said we came from monkeys. Sorry.

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 12:06 AM

What does God teach about Capital punishment. God doesn't like premeditated murder, the punishment is death.

It is the same thing for rape, how about these guys who rape little children? Don't they deserve to die? I remember one child molester asking for castration because he would do it again when released. You see God is not a God of the dead but of the living and the ultimate judge, he wants to judge the situation.

Does anybody think a serial killer should get life in prison, is this a better punishment. Do you think serial killers should be released in general population. This guy is in there with other murderers or guys who have killed in self defense. He is not in there with puppies and kittens.

So lets lock a Guy up and put him in 23 hour lock down because of his crimes. Why are people in 23 hour lock down prisons? They will kill each other that's why, worse than that kill the guards. So lets take out the death penalty and lock a man in a 6 by 8 for 50 years getting one hour a day to shower to stretch his legs. Hey just release them in general population so the violence can just take its toll, it would become a literal war zone.

As for Axe heads coming of, God doesn't want people executed for accidents. He doesn't even want people executed for acts of passion.

Death penalty opponents ("opponents") state that "Those who support the death penalty see it as a solution to violent crime." Opponents, hereby, present one of many fabrications. In reality, executions are seen as the appropriate punishment for certain criminals committing specific crimes. So says the U.S. Supreme Court and so say most death penalty supporters ("advocates").

franklin

06-08-2007, 12:28 AM

I will never believe or preach like you do that the Jews in Israel, any of them, are the literal spawn of satan. And I will continue to speak against you for doing so.

The same as I speak against Nazis, the Klan and Al Queda terrorists for making the same statements against Jews.

Got that?

I do that out of love.

Love for those who you wrongfully accuse of being the children of the devil and love for you and wanting to help you see you are mislead.

So far as your trivial pointless question. At the time I quoted Arnold Murray from off of the internet. You never denied those quotes were spoken by arnie so the point of your question to anyone is meaningless.

Now I am listening to those tapes and those statements are there. And more.

Abandon this heresy!

Do it for the innocent Jewish children who you endanger and will suffer from the lies and hate speech you speak against them!

Stop it NOW!

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 12:36 AM

trained observer : Nonsense. Men come from women. I've seen it happen. They pop right out of them screaming and pitching a fit.

Me again: Comedy gold, but wait were did the first man come from, and if it is women were did woman come from. If you don't care, cool but you see my existence in this world blows my mind, how did all of us come into existence? If it not be the Christian God how? No jokes for answers, this just damages your credibility. Also know that I will put your theories under the microscope in response.

ihavesinned

06-08-2007, 12:42 AM

See the evolution thread.

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 12:48 AM

Franklin: I will never believe or preach like you do that the Jews in Israel, any of them, are the literal spawn of satan.

me again: How about any of them being the synagogue of satan.

Revelations 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

If not, you see Christ told John that those which say they are the jews and are not are the Synagogue of satan. So if you don't believe that some of the Jews are in this church of satan you stand against Jesus teachings.

Dont try to say we say all Jews are kenites. You see we believe Christ is half judah. There is no way we would say Christ is half kenite. Check mate its over Franklin, now get with the winning team.

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 12:57 AM

Thank you IHS I didn't know this was here. I will attack false doctrine with the double edge sword of truth. So it will take some research of you fella's belief I have the weekend off so it is on. Enjoy your day friend and thanks again.

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 01:05 AM

Here is just a preview

Question: Is God willing to prevent evil......

Answer: God gives us free will so we can chose between good and evil. How would we make this choice if there were no evil?

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 01:14 AM

Let me clarify my answer God is good, Satan is evil a third of Gods angels turn in Revelations 12. Don't we have a choice, could this be away of making heaven perfect. Getting rid of disobedience, you see lots of atheist are very disobedient which is true with Christians also. However through God's plan we begin to try to be obedient to love in a flesh body imagine how obedient to this love we would be in a spiritual body. Not prideful not rebellious to a perfect plan. You see it is pride that turned angels against God thinking they were better that there siblings and even there father. Like kids now days who throw tantrums in the store in front of everybody.

ihavesinned

06-08-2007, 03:02 AM

"I will attack false doctrine with the double edge sword of truth"

Careful not to dull your blade on the immoveable stone of reality. And be sure not to get caught between it and the irresistable force. They will often gang up on unsuspecting victims.

I personally like to go around every once in a while with my righteous weedwhacker of freedom and lay low the heedless hooligans of hypocrisy.

watchman_2

06-08-2007, 03:25 AM

Speaking of hypocrisy, there is no group that are bigger hypocrites then atheists, whose religion is evolution.

They base their religion on a pseudo-science that has no basis in fact, logic, or observeable evidence.

In fact, if they applied scientific principles to their religion of evolution, they would all dump evolution for a God-based creation religion. After all, in absence of proof of a natural process for the creation of life, the only other possibility is creation by a God. And, there is no proof of a natural process for creation of life.

Hence, ihs' comment on hypocrisy gives opportunity to consider the source of the comment -- the true hypocrite.

stage_director

06-08-2007, 04:23 AM

Do you think that perhaps the fact many Christians read Genesis literally to mean the earth is 6000 years old could make Darwinism seem a credible alternative to an atheist? There was a time not that long ago when those were basically the two camps, and it was either, or ...

stage_director

06-08-2007, 04:44 AM

I don't know what everyone else's definitions are ... but to me an agnostic is someone not convinced there's a God, while an atheist is someone who's done some homework and believes there is not a God. I can't help but think that in the case of the latter, an inspection of God's "servants" was often as not a deciding factor ... :-(

watchman_2

06-08-2007, 06:27 AM

I certainly believe that fundamentalist christianity has had a significant impact on driving people into atheism. The inability to square scripture with scientific findings poses a dilemma for many thinking people.

This dilemma is especially prevalent for those christian denominations that teach the 6,000 years of life on earth [oneway's group]. Surely, anyone whom has any training in a scientific field would have to live in complete denial to attend such churches.

So, the thinking person, in order to resolve the dilemma from what is taught in fundamentalist's churches, has basically two options. One option is to assume that which is taught in church is an accurate interpretation of scripture and, therefore, dump the Christianity/God concept as false and glum onto the only other possibility, which is Darwinism/evolution. These people live in denial in that the theory [evolution] they have chosen by default to believe in is total garbage science. Hence, you see the many monkey-to-man hypothesis offered by these fools.

The other approach is to evaluate the veracity of Darwinism/evolution, which should lead the thinking individual into concluding that evolution is total bunk. Therefore, since evolution can never be true, the only other possibility, since church teachings are opposed to science, that fundamentalist church teachings are wrong.

Now, I think many would agree that Dodge falls into the former [first option] group, including Ihavesinned. I fell into the latter [second option] group. I spent a majority of my adult life knowing that evolution was bunk, but so was the teachings of most churches that I was familiar with.

Thank God for SC -- for now I know scripture squares with science.

ihavesinned

06-08-2007, 07:44 AM

Watchman, you're right.
Too bad they don't have any of them thinkin' folks at Harvard, Yale, MIT, Umass, Oxford, Cambridge, Princeton, Caltech, UW, Dartmouth, Brown, USC, UCLA, the Max Planck Institute, Columbia, Berkeley, Cornell, UW, University of Utah, University of Iowa, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Tulane, etc. All of these, and many other institutions of higher learning regard biological evolution as a foregone conclusion, not worthy of debate-a fact.

I do think, however that the Topeka Kansas board of education might side with you. You know, Topeka where these people live:http://www.godhatesamerica.com/ghfmir/main/index.html

Maybe you should be on a speaking tour instead of posting on Factnet. You could fill all these schmucks in on the error of their ways. Just read them Genesis, that should settle things.

I wonder what scripture would say about science like this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6548719.stm

And for the record it was reading the bible, then observing reality, not fundamentalism that brought me to atheism. Oh and by the way, if you keep referring to a monkey to man theory , people are going to know you have never read anything about evolution.

watchman_2

06-08-2007, 04:04 PM

ihavesinned,

Thanks for proving my point!

"And for the record it was reading the bible, then observing reality, not fundamentalism that brought me to atheism."

Instead of applying scientific principles to testing the veracity of evolution, you base your acceptance of evolution upon a lack of understanding of the Bible and the interpretations thereof by so-called Bible authorities.

Of course, your leftist tendencies certainly played a part in your quick dismissal of scripture for the pseudo-science of evolution.

BTW, the bbc website that you cited above presumes evolution is true -- does not offer proof. In addition, God has declared homosexuality an abomination.

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 04:22 PM

Protein extracted from 68 million-year-old T. rex bones has shed new light on the evolutionary link between dinosaurs and birds.

Ok the chicken came from the T-rex. The T-Rex fourty foot tall predator. The chicken 1 foot, and dinner. Just kidding, but come on.

How bout these facts: 65 million years ago the dinosaurs went extinct, yet God's word includes a description of these beast.

Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. 41:16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. 41:17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

41:26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. 41:27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. 41:28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

41:31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
(I just found out today the bigger the dinosaur scientist believe it was a very very hot animal)

It describes this beast even more but these are some parts I highlighted. If you have eyes to see when you read Job 40 -41 there is no doubt this is referring to the Dinosaur. 65 million years ago there were Dinosaurs, Mankind started 6010 years ago or what I think, but could be wrong, 8000 years ago. How did these writers imagine the dinosaur even describing how hot they were. Standing in there breath would burn you. If man imagined this beast do you think he would have said it ate grass with the ox. Also with reading this book the Bible, dont you think when ever man added on they would have included these beast and the story would have gotten more and more crazy. Now you see the word of God has said things that man had no Idea about until we unearthed these bones then used science to figure out they ate grass. I also intend to sometime today look up were the Bible either says the world is a sphere or that it is a globe, I don't remember which. Didn't people think the world is flat. It also says the four corners N S E W this was describing the compass so don't try this as a attempt to say it calls it flat, because the bible says the winds come from the four corners, already starting with meteorology......Amazing huh?

godchild

06-08-2007, 05:10 PM

watchman's good buddy (he even brought him here) smut doesn't seem to agree, (about fundy's causing people to turn to atheism), nor does angie and a lot of other scer's who attend those fundamentalist churches; especially the catholic. It's about as fundy as you can get (claiming to be the first). The oddest thing is, these people claim to be learning from someone (am) who teaches them truth, yet they are still staunch members of the other 'fundy' churches. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

ihavesinned

06-08-2007, 06:39 PM

"Amazing huh?"

What's amazing is people's ability to use science when it is convenient. If it confirms some vaque line out of the bible, it is heralded as a triumph of science proving god's word. In the overwhelming majority of cases, science uncovers truth that is mentioned nowhere in the bible. This is called junk science, especially if it is contradictory to a literal interpretation of genesis.

Was divine intervention necessary for people to realize that the wind blew in different directions at different times?

Regarding the dinosaur mention in the bible, the Chinese and other cultures mention dragons and sea serpents, quite independently from the mentions in the christian tradition. It is a coincidence. Why is there no mention in there of DNA, atoms, relativity, quantum mechanics, microbiology, optics, gravity, or anything else relevant to science?

skooter942000

06-08-2007, 06:53 PM

GOD has PROGENY

satan has PROGENY

(....deal with it)

( - IT IS WRITTEN)

Mat 13:24 ¶ Another parable put he forth unto them,
saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man
which sowed good seed in his field:

Mat 13:25 But while men slept,
his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat,
...and went his way.

REV 2:9
REV 3:9
JHN 8:44

&

1Jo 3:11 For this is the message
that ye heard from the beginning,
that we should love one another.

1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one,
and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him?
Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

1Jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

(...we don't) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 07:18 PM

IHS :Regarding the dinosaur mention in the bible, the Chinese and other cultures mention dragons and sea serpents, quite independently from the mentions in the christian tradition. It is a coincidence.

Luther :These eateth grass as the oxen. Didn't these dragons in other cultures have fangs? Didn't the stories of these dragons get kind of crazy.

IHS: Why is there no mention in there of DNA, atoms, relativity, quantum mechanics, microbiology, optics, gravity, or anything else relevant to science?

Me again: There is a mention of DNA you just have to know how to read the bible, but you do not. I want you to explain DNA, atoms, relativity, quantum mechanics, microbiology, optics, gravity. If you can explain these do you think I would understand what you were talking about (me bieng alive in this generation). God inspired these texts to man in a manner all men would understand. Except now a day, of course you have to take the word of God back to the original languages and mannerisms that is why there is stumbling in the Christian church.

trainedobserver

06-08-2007, 07:25 PM

"Me again: Comedy gold, but wait were did the first man come from, and if it is women were did woman come from. If you don't care, cool but you see my existence in this world blows my mind, how did all of us come into existence? If it not be the Christian God how?"

Why the Christian god? Why not Zeus, Vishnu, or time-traveling genetic engineering aliens from planet X for that matter? I see no reason to view one god's mythos, out of tens of thousands worshiped by human beings on this planet, as any more credible than another.

The truth is there is no evidence to suggest that the Christian god is nothing more than a fiction. In fact, there is a ponderous of evidence that shows that Jesus is a derivative of preexisting pagan religions of the day. See "Pagan Christs". Copies, duplicates, and knock-offs always occur after an original. Always. We've beat this dead horse into mush more than once here. National Geographic's Rivals of Christ is a good start for newcomers to the subject.

"No jokes for answers, this just damages your credibility. Also know that I will put your theories under the microscope in response."

Oh well then. I should watch my step or risk looking foolish. Please. You ask a question like, "If it not be the Christian God how?" and caution me on damaging my credibility? Have you considered how many assumptions you made in your loaded question? Far too many is the answer.

Where did human beings originate from? There is considerable evidence that complex living organisms result from the evolution of simpler life forms. However, the question is moot and not worth arguing if you actually think about it for a moment.

The reality is due to the ravages of time and environment we may never lay hands on enough fossilized material to trace the human species through all its evolutionary stages. And of course the reality is that we will never be able to trace back far enough to reconstruct the formation of the universe. That is the reality of the situation. So why should I believe one ancient creation story over another? Based on what exactly and to what end? We might as well argue whether the characters in Marvel comics any more real than the characters in D.C. comics.

lutheratx

06-08-2007, 07:26 PM

I know youll probally bring up the dragon in the bible. However it is explained who or what it is describing, it is never a mystical creature. Satan looks like man except mighty and angelic. It also explains a government, not an actual creature. Other cultures used these descriptors as an actual creature. God doesn't work in fairy tails when people have tried to make it fairy tails they are soon made to look foolish.

trainedobserver

06-08-2007, 07:27 PM

Do I care where the human race springs from or do I care how the universe was formed? It would be interesting but I understand my limitations. I understand the limitations of science and I certainly understand the limits of religion. They are unanswerable questions either discipline. To argue them or ponder them perpetually is vain and of no practical use.

We may imagine all sorts of origins but only those based on direct observation of the NOW that we inhabit have any validity whatsoever. Can we peer backwards into time? Yes we can. Telescopes are time machines. How far back can we see? Look it up, you might be surprised. A very long time. What does it show? That everything is in constant motion. That everything has been under constant change as far back as we can see.

Am I filled with angst over my inability to find a conclusive answer to the questions about my species origins and the origins of the universe we find ourselves in? No I am not. The information is unnecessary and fortunately so since the answers are unknowable.

The current understanding is that the universe expands to the point where forces cause it to contract where then at some point it begins to expand again. The universe seems to cycle between singularity and expanded universe. How many times has it done this? Unknowable, as all evidence would be destroyed and remade in the cycle. Could the mechanics of the whole thing be something else entirely? Certainly. However, it is of little impact or concern on our everyday lives. It is ... unknowable.

Should I believe in the creation story of any particular tribal religion simply because these things are unknowable? Just to have a story to cling to? Why? To what end?

I know humans come from other humans I don't 'believe' they do. I know it. You can verify this for yourself easily enough. Go to a maternity ward.

I know the universe exists, at least as far as I can understand 'existence' itself. Granted, I may be a disembodied brain in a jar being electronically feed all that I perceive through my senses. However, for all practical purposes it is safe to assume I am a male mammal living on a planet orbiting a star on the fringe of a spiral armed galaxy. Why? Because I can observe this. For all we know this is how it has always been and always will be. My life span and the life span of my species is so incredibly short in comparison to the time the earth, the solar system, and the galaxy have already existed, for me to assume that I could understand their origins would be extremely arrogant to the point of high comedy. Campy comedy at that. Think Mel Brooks directing an episode of Adam West's Batman.

trainedobserver

06-08-2007, 07:29 PM

It goes along with what I have been saying for some time now. "God" is a loaded word that carries so much baggage it is unsuitable for use. Say "god" and a thousand different images pop into peoples heads. None of which could be correct. Think about that for a moment. How could any concept of 'god' imagined or imaginable by human beings be anything close to the reality of such a thing if indeed it did exist? It's a bit like a blind painter painting a sunset. There is simply no way the painter can even conceptualize what a sunset is. He doesn't have the equipment or experience to realize what color, light, refraction, or anything else that constitutes a 'sunset' are. He is working in a totally unknowable (for him) media. He would do better to attempt to use sound (a understandable media for him) to depict the sunset. That is religion in a nutshell. It is simply an impossibility of circumstance. Those who are in religion are like blind people painting sunsets with a tape recorder. It is just that ridiculous. It would laughable had I not wasted decades of my life doing that very thing myself. It's like I have over 30 years of blank tapes framed on the wall with labels like, Sunset on the water, Sunset in the mountains, Sunset by the lake.

The larger question lutheratx is, "Where did the universe come from?" Or perhaps even better, "What is the universe?" By all accounts the universe's greatest talent is the creation of black holes. By comparison only a very small portion of the universe can support life and only for extremely brief periods of time. The Universe nor its maker, should one actually exist, seem to be too concerned with the proliferation of life as much as they are in the proliferation of conditions that are hostile to it.

The universe could be blind, dumb, and unintelligent matter obeying the laws of physics and life could be a unintended by-product. The universe could also be an intelligent being and we could be the equivalent of its sense organs or simply the bacteria infecting one of its nether bits.

The larger truth is all there is ... is the now that you experience. The past and the future do not exist. They are only concepts in your mind.
The larger reality if you will only see it is that the universe and everything in it are inexorably one "thing" with the individuality of the parts simply an illusion. Like the spokes of a wheel. The wheel cannot be without the spokes and the spokes are nothing if they are not a "wheel". The perceived separation of the parts of the whole are illusionary.

So have at me then!