New World Order: Fact or Fiction?

[dodge]

This thread is for discussing the so-called "New World Order," and the powerful secret societies that some say are behind the scenes working to enslave humanity and rule the world. For the students of Shepherds Chapel, these people are "Kenites," the descendents of Cain who they believe was the product of a sexual relationship between Satan and Eve. As I understand it, the goal of these "Kenites" is to prepare for the coming of the Anti-Christ.

"Fatherofaking" -- you stated in another thread that you could prove that this nefarious conspiracy to dominate and enslave humanity is fact. Other than things that are written in ancient books, what proof can you offer to substantiate your claim that Kenites exist and are in control of the world systems of education, banking, politics and the church? First of all, who are they and what are their goals?

[fatherofaking]

There is a group of people that are working hard to gain world dominance.
Here is one the families involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA&eurl=http://geocities.com/fatherofaking/index.html?200927
Notice that he did not mention the Constitution.
He said we would be governed by the rule of law through the United Nations.

Now lets look at what is on the U.N. agenda.

[fatherofaking]

Lucis Trust
Purposes & Objectives
World Goodwill is an organised movement founded in 1932 to help establish right human relations and solve humanity's problems through the constructive power of goodwill. World Goodwill's activities are essentially educational.
Principles: The work of World Goodwill is based on the principles of brotherhood, human unity, sharing and cooperation; and on the fundamental rights and freedoms embodied in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. World Goodwill is a world service organisation practising the principle of non-discrimination in race, religion, ideology, and political and economic convictions.
Purposes: World Goodwill has three main purposes:
* To help mobilise the energy of goodwill;
*To cooperate in the work of preparation for the reappearance of the Christ;
* To educate public opinion on the causes of the major world problems and to help create the thoughtform of solution.
Policy: World Goodwill's policy and programmes are formulated by an international group with headquarters in Geneva, London and New York, in consultation with cooperating groups and associates in many parts of the world.
Organisation: World Goodwill is a voluntary association of men and women of goodwill open to all who support its principles and objectives. World Goodwill is not a "membership organisation" and there are no membership dues.
World Goodwill is an accredited non-governmental organisation with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations. It maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised Agencies and with a wide range of national and international non-governmental organisations. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust, which is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social Council.
Finance: The work is financed solely by voluntary contributions. The Objectives of World Goodwill
* To stimulate and encourage men and women of goodwill everywhere to establish right human relations between races, religions, nations and classes through intelligent understanding and adequate communication.
* To assist men and women of goodwill in their studies of world problems, and in the effective application to these problems of goodwill, cooperation and sharing for the common good.
* To cooperate with other organisations in constructive activities contributing to world unity, stability and right human relations.
* To make available up-to-date information on constructive current action in the main areas of human life through publication of a quarterly newsletter and goodwill commentaries on issues of world interest.
* To aid in establishing goodwill as the keynote of the new civilisation.
* To create a worldwide mailing list of men and women of goodwill.
* To support the work of the United Nations and its Specialised Agencies as the best hope for a united and peaceful world.
The Will To Good
There are six recognitions that can provide a basis for realising these purposes and objectives:
One: Humanity is not following a haphazard or uncharted course -- there is a Plan. This Plan has always existed and is part of the greater design of the Cosmos. The Plan has worked out through the evolutionary developments of the past and because of the special impetus given it from time to time by the great leaders, teachers and intuitives of the human race.
Two: There is an inner spiritual government of the planet, known under such different names as the spiritual Hierarchy, the society of Illumined Minds, or Christ and his Church, according to various religious traditions. Humanity is never left without spiritual guidance or direction under the Plan.
Three: The widespread expectation that we approach the "Age of Maitreya", as it is known in the East, when the World Teacher and present head of the spiritual Hierarchy, the Christ, will reappear among humanity to sound the keynote of the new age.
Four: There are millions of mentally alert men and women in all parts of the world who are en rapport with the Plan and work to give it expression. They are people in whom the consciousness of humanity as one interdependent unit is alive and active. They regard the many differing national, religious and social systems in which they serve as modes of expanding human consciousness and ways by which humanity learns needed lessons. Their primary function is, through their living example, to give humanity a new and better vision of what life should be.
Five: The heart of humanity is sound. Our era is notable for the growth of goodwill and altruistic endeavour. All the crises, wars and catastrophes of the twentieth century have been unable to crush the human spirit.

[fatherofaking]

Lucis Trust continued...



Six: The Plan for humanity is based on the principles of sharing, cooperation, practical brotherhood, right relationships between all people and between nations, and goodwill in action.
These beliefs give a new dimension to spiritual reality and a long-range perspective to our present crises. They provide opportunity for cooperation with the spiritual evolution of humanity and increase our capacity for freedom.
There is no group so likely to ensure that humanity achieves this most difficult goal as the men and women of goodwill. Provided they can overcome inertia they are in a key position, requiring only courage to express goodwill and to initiate action to prepare for the new world order. Mobilizing Goodwill
The hope for the future lies in the hands of men and women of goodwill. Leaders, managers, technical experts and specialists in all areas of life are relatively helpless without the massed cooperation of people of goodwill. Focussed enlightened public opinion has no equal and can be a major factor in world reconstruction. But it has been little used. The major need today is to educate world public opinion in the significance of goodwill as a powerful creative energy and way of life; and to mobilize men and women to establish goodwill as a keynote of the coming new age civilisation. World Goodwill aids in this task by:
* Advice and assistance to individual men and women to increase their effectiveness in service.
* Cooperation with the world service action of other organisations, and groups of organisations.
* Support for the work of the United Nations and its Specialised Agencies as the main hope for humanity's future.
* Meditation on right human relations and the energy of goodwill.
* A Worldwide Educational Programme which includes: A Distribution Programme of pamphlets to all parts of the world, with the assistance of volunteer associates and cooperating groups.
* The World Goodwill Newsletter, a regular publication highlighting the energy of goodwill in world affairs. The newsletter presents a universal spiritual approach to topics of concern.
* Occasional Papers and Study Sets, dealing with some of the world's major problems.
* The World Goodwill Commentary, a goodwill periodical, displaying evidences of the emerging new age civilization with comment on current world events.
* The World Goodwill Forum, regular meetings, including an annual seminar in London, New York and Geneva, highlight groups and individuals working to meet world need. Audio recordings are distributed worldwide.
The Reappearance of the Christ

[fatherofaking]

more Lucis trust...

This is a time of preparation not only for a new civilisation and culture in a new world order, but also for the coming of a new spiritual dispensation.
Humanity is not following an uncharted course. There is a divine Plan in the Cosmos of which we are a part. At the end of an age human resources and established institutions seem inadequate to meet world needs and problems. At such a time the advent of a Teacher, a spiritual leader or Avatar, is anticipated and invoked by the masses of humanity in all parts of the world.
Today the reappearance of the World Teacher, the Christ, is expected by millions, not only by those of Christian faith but by those of every faith who expect the Avatar under other names -- the Lord Maitreya, Krishna, Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the Bodhisattva.
Glamour and distortion surround this central fact of divine response to human need. This is inevitable but unimportant. The fact of transition into a new age is important. Preparation by men and women of goodwill is needed to introduce new values for living, new standards of behaviour, new attitudes of non-separateness and cooperation, leading to right human relations and a world at peace. The coming world Teacher will be mainly concerned, not with the result of past error and inadequacy, but with the requirements of a new world order and with the reorganisation of the social structure.
World Goodwill distributes educational and informative literature on these themes. A world prayer, the Great Invocation, is distributed on a worldwide scale in many languages and dialects. World Goodwill also cooperates in organising the annual World Invocation Day, with special focus on the use of the Great Invocation worldwide. Problems of Humanity
The problem of establishing right relationships between people and between nations is of urgent concern in a world in crisis. The immediate spiritual problem is that of offsetting selfish separateness by the technique of trained, imaginative, creative and practical goodwill. There is no problem that cannot be solved by the energy of goodwill and no problem can be solved without it. Goodwill really practised among political and religious groups in any nation, and among the nations of the world, can revolutionise the world.

[fatherofaking]

finally the end of the religious agenda of the U.N.

World Goodwill provides a series of study papers on the major problems of human progress. Emphasis is placed upon underlying causes and emerging trends rather than on a factual survey of events. The use of the trained mind in reflective thought and meditation is encouraged.
The problems dealt with include:
* Capital, Labour and Employment
* The Minorities
* The Churches and Organised Religion
* Children, Youth and Education
* Psychological Renewal of the Nations
* International Unity
There are many lesser problems but these are the major ones with which humanity is at this time confronted and which must find solution. This will be done by the establishing of right human relations.
The formation of study groups is encouraged so that through study, discussion and meditation a "thought form of solution" may be generated and local forms of service activity initiated. These problems can also be discussed in online forums. www.lucistrust.org (http://www.lucistrust.org/en/service_activities/world_goodwill__1/purposes_objectives)

[dodge]

Rule of Law governed by a United Nations. Sounds great! When all countries can unite and work towards peace and prosperity for all then we of the planet Earth will have achieved greatness. As long as there are numerous nations each believing that they will dominate and control, then there will always be war. Only with a One World Order can there be a United Earth working towards the welfare of all humanity. Such a government will end so-called “third world nations” where poverty and violence predominate. This is the only future for the human race that is viable. I am in favor of a United Earth Government. Why must that be a bad thing?

[dodge]

Father of a King -- The Lucis Trust was established to spread the teachings of Alice Bailey. Have you ever read any of her works? I’m not sure if you believe this to be a good thing or not. Bailey received her knowledge through channeling of a Tibeten Master, just as Helena Blavatsky did which started the Theosophical movement. How is Alice Bailey connected to a nefarious scheme to enslave humanity? Just because it’s connected with the United Nations? Bailey's work was with "white magic."

[stage director]

Dodge, I certainly don't believe in "Kenites" or that any one group/race of people is leading a conspiracy, but ... I do think we're being primed for something that is not what it's being presented as.

[stage director]

Dodge, I saw for myself a full page prayer to Lucifer placed in the Reader's Digest by Lucas Trust in the 1990s.

[fatherofaking]

So i suppose you also would not be opposed to all of our rights being taken away from us while we walk around with chips in our hands and heads?

I suppose you also think that the population needs reducing.


Investigations by EIR have uncovered a planning apparatus operating outside the control of the White House whose sole purpose is to reduce the world's population by 2 billion people through war, famine, disease and any other means necessary. This apparatus, which includes various levels of the government is determining U.S. foreign policy. In every political hotspot -- El Salvador, the so-called arc of crisis in the Persian Gulf, Latin America, Southeast Asia and in Africa- the goal of U.S. foreign policy is population reduction. The targeting agency for the operation is the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population Policy. Its policy-planning group is in the U.S. State Department's Office of Population Affairs, established in 1975 by Henry Kissinger. This group drafted the Carter administration's Global 2000 document, which calls for global population reduction, and the same apparatus is conducting the civil war in El Salvador as a conscious depopulation project.http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/depopulation.htm

I suppose you also think that poisoning our food supply and putting dangerous metals in our kids vaccines are okay as well?



The Codex Alimentarius is a threat to the freedom of people to choose natural healing and alternative medicine and nutrition. Ratified by the World Health Organization, and going into Law in the United States in 2009, the threat to health freedom has never been greater. This is the first part of a series of talks by Dr. Rima Laibow MD, available on DVD from the Natural Solutions Foundation, an non-profit organization dedicated to educating people about how to stop Codex Alimentarius from taking away our right to freely choose nutritional health.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634



This is just a small part of what is going on under our noses.
I have hundreds of more articles and videos showing the horrendous things being done to the people in the world in the name of a New World Order.

You really need to do some research Dodge.
You are way off the mark on this one.
I have proof after proof of horrible things being done in the name of the NWO.

[fatherofaking]

The Kenites are just a name.
A description of who they are and what they believe, not a race of people.

I do think however if you traced the royal families back you may be surprised what you find.


He who controls the past, controls the future.

Some famous relatives of US President George W. Bush

http://operationawakening.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/george-w-bushs-illuminati-bloodline-julius-ceaser-wow/

Trust me when i say they keep it all in the family.

All in the Family: Cheney and Obama Related
by Alexander Mooney and Lauren Kornreich, CNN, Oct. 17, 2007


http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/1017.html

[fatherofaking]

We can continue if you like.
I think it is clear that the NWO is a reality.

Now, how far should we take it?
What are the implications if this is all true?
How does it apply to the Bible.
Who is Lucifer anyway?
Are we living in what the Bible speaks of as the end times perhaps?

I know that you reject all of this out of hand as foolishness Dodge, i just ask that you take an honest look.

[dodge]

Stage -- You have to understand what Lucifer means to the followers of Alice Bailey. It is not Satan; but means “light.” You would have to read her works in order to understand…which I did more than thirty years ago. There is much misunderstanding and misconception...as in all philosophies that are not mainstream Christian.

[fatherofaking]

Stage -- You have to understand what Lucifer means to the followers of Alice Bailey. It is not Satan; but means “light.” You would have to read her works in order to understand…which I did more than thirty years ago. There is much misunderstanding and misconception...as in all philosophies that are not mainstream Christian.

I understand what Lucifer means to the Theosophist Dodge.
The problem is that it is only half of the truth.
Jesus and what he did is left out of the picture.
He is not seen as savior but rather just the other side of the coin.
Lucifer and Christ are two parts of the same thing to them.

This is from a man named David Spangler.
He was a member of the Finehorn foundation.
This foundation (it no longer exists i believe) played the same role as The Lucis Trust does now with the U.N.


Christ is the same force as Lucifer but moving in seemingly the opposite direction. Lucifer
moves in to create the light within through the pressure of experience. Christ moves out to
release that light, that wisdom, that love into creation…. — David Spangler, Reflections on
the Christ (Findhorn Publications, 1977), p. 40.
Satan and the Judgement rests with every man; each one is his own Satan, each his own
judge. — Benjamin Crème, The Reappearance of the Christ and the Masters of Wisdom
(Tara Press, 1980), p. 104.
Eventually, if we achieve our chosen task on planet Earth to transmute duality into
Oneness, then Lucifer, too, with his fallen Angels, must rise up into the Light to once again
sit at the right hand of God as one of the brightest of the Angels. For nothing and no one is
to remain separate from God. Within the Greater Reality, everything is God. — Solara, The
Star-Borne: A Remembrance for the Awakened Ones (Star-Borne Unlimited, 1989), p. 138.While there may be some truth to these things it is not the whole truth.

[dodge]

Father of a King -- Why do you trust the information that you get through EIR, which was founded by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.? He’s a conspiracy theorist and accused by the ADL of being an anti-Semite with facistic tendencies. Are you a LaRouche fan?

[stage director]

Yeah, I know ... the Light Bringer. I really don't remember Alice Bailey so can't comment on her personal beliefs, but I do believe from things I read many years ago that within Lucas Trust there are persons who worship/admire/expect Lucifer as the entity opposed to the Christian God.

[fatherofaking]

Father of a King -- Why do you trust the information that you get through EIR, which was founded by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.? He’s a conspiracy theorist and accused by the ADL of being an anti-Semite with facistic tendencies. Are you a LaRouche fan?

No i am not a Larouche fan.
I know very little of the man.

What i posted can be found in many different places.
It is not just the EIR that has posted this info.

You can read Kissinger's stuff for yourself if i can find it.
I have done my best to track down every source i can to verify them.
I generally do not put out anything without being able to back it up.

I learned a long time ago how important it is to be certain about what you know.

[stage director]

Dodge, does it strike you at all odd that persons who are opposed to/don't believe in the biblical God would champion Lucifer, of all entities? He was known to worshippers of YHVH over 5000 years ago, and I guess I don't see a reason other than direct rebellion of him to cause them to choose this particular entity? To me that implies quite a bit.

[stage director]

Actually, I'm enjoying this. A "not exactly" atheist, a semi-conspiracy buff and a skeptical Christian ... this could be productive. :)

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. I see that you’re really into this New World Order conspiracy idea, with lots of bookmarks and research. It seems very important to you for some reason. I looked at your resources, and see that you collect your information from people like Lyndon LaRouche, “Operation Awakening,” and “Illuminati News…” all conspiracy theorist websites with little credibility. What leads you to believe that what you get from these sites is accurate and factual?

May I ask you what you get from your voluminous research notes about an evil New World Order? I mean, does it improve the quality of your life and those around you in any way? Does it make you happier? Or is it just a hobby? Even if what you believe about secret societies enslaving humanity is true, is there anything that you can do about it? Since you obviously believe it to be true, doesn't it create anxiety and fear within you? Is there any ritual that you use to protect yourself from these imaginary boogeymen, such as wearing tin foil on your head or covering your walls with aluminum foil?

[fatherofaking]

Dodge, does it strike you at all odd that persons who are opposed to/don't believe in the biblical God would champion Lucifer, of all entities? He was known to worshippers of YHVH over 5000 years ago, and I guess I don't see a reason other than direct rebellion of him to cause them to choose this particular entity? To me that implies quite a bit.


I do not think it happened that way SD.
You are making an assumption that Lucifer is Satan.
I do not think it is that easy to make that assumption if one studies the subject.
Christians have just accepted that they are the same without actually doing a thorough study.
Satan, Lucifer and the serpent may all be something different.
I have yet to come to any conclusion on the subject but i would be careful making assumptions if i were you .

[stage director]

Lucifer aka the Light Bringer was known to believers in YHVH. This is the entity I refer to. Per Dodge, whether he is Satan is part of what we are debating. :)

[dodge]

Hi Stage -- Even if it is true that people within the Lucis Trust worship Lucifer…so what? If they are indeed opposed to the Christian God, what difference does that make? They would just be another bunch of deluded people with irrational beliefs. Do you think they are part of a United Nations/New World Order cabal seeking to enslave humans so that they will one day worship Satan? Perhaps Nicolas Cage can make another movie as Ben Gates and take on these secret evil beings who want to control the world and make us all bow down to the Lord of Darkness. It certainly has no reality in the real world…only in the minds of those who for some reason have been led to believe such fiction.

[fatherofaking]

Hi Father of a King. I see that you’re really into this New World Order conspiracy idea, with lots of bookmarks and research. It seems very important to you for some reason. I looked at your resources, and see that you collect your information from people like Lyndon LaRouche, “Operation Awakening,” and “Illuminati News…” all conspiracy theorist websites with little credibility. What leads you to believe that what you get from these sites is accurate and factual?

May I ask you what you get from your voluminous research notes about an evil New World Order? I mean, does it improve the quality of your life and those around you in any way? Does it make you happier? Or is it just a hobby? Even if what you believe about secret societies enslaving humanity is true, is there anything that you can do about it? Since you obviously believe it to be true, doesn't it create anxiety and fear within you? Is there any ritual that you use to protect yourself from these imaginary boogeymen, such as wearing tin foil on your head or covering your walls with aluminum foil?
\

Come on Dodge, did you read my last post?
I told you that all of the information i have can be found in many places.
Many of the bookmarks i have are used for convenience sake.
I have tracked down all of the sources on those sights to the best of my ability.
If i cannot verify a source on a website i do not use it.

Now for the second half of your post.
What i am doing is no hobby.
I have suspected these things were going on all of my life.
It is only since the advent of the internet that i have been able to verify them.

What i have known is that we live in a world of illusion.
Money is not real.
It has nothing to do with life.
It is part of the system of slavery that we are under.
I am in the process of unplugging from the system as we speak.
The only reason that i do not have any anxiety about it all is because i belive i know how it is all going to end.
I do not believe that those behind the NWO will succeed.
There is a movement that is growing exponentially in the world to stand up to this plan.
It is centered around non-compliance.
Not to mention that congressman Ron Paul seems to have the potential for a landslide victory in 2012.
The first thing he says he is planning to do is dump the Federal Reserve and start printing our own debt free currency.
I am not sure he can pull it off but it shows that there is plenty of resistance out there to the NWO.

One more thing.
I realize that you find this to be nothing but foolishness (am i repeating myself again?) but why the ridicule Dodge?

[fatherofaking]

Here are some articles on the subject of satan and Lucifer SD.



Q.
Isaiah 14:12 mentions the name of "Lucifer." I’ve heard it said that this is Satan. Are Lucifer and Satan one and the same? A.
It is sad, but nevertheless true, that on occasion Bible students attribute to God’s Word facts and concepts that it neither teaches nor advocates. These ill-advised beliefs run the entire gamut—from harmless misinterpretations to potentially soul-threatening false doctrines.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2215

here is another.
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/30/is-jesus-lucifer/

this is just wikipedia but it is a good article with some good sources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

[stage director]

I think there are agendas within the UN, but not one to specifically "usher in Satan." Quite frankly, I don't believe real conspirators would refer to some "new world order." What do you mean by cabal? I believe within our own US politics judgeships and seats and appointments to positions are often carefully orchestrated. Our lobbying policies are downriight scary! I believe there are persons/groups who influence world currencies. I believe there are powerful groups with agendas. What I don't believe is that it is all being orchestrated by world Jewery or Rothschilds or Masons or "Greenies" etc., or that there is one group pulling the strings.

[dodge]

You’re right, Father of a King…I see all this New World Order Bavarian Illuminati Kenite conspiracy to enslave humanity belief as a symptom of a delusional personality stemming from a need to find meaning. I can’t take you seriously when you go on about how money is not real and how you’re planning to “unplug” yourself from the system. It sounds like part of the Matrix movie franchise plot. Now you’re telling me that you think Ron Paul is going to win the presidency in 2012 by a landslide, and then proceed to get rid of the Federal Reserve and print “debt free” currency. It seems to me that what you’re unplugging yourself from is reality. This is my opinion based on what I've read from your posts; and I'm sorry for the ridicule.

[dobman53]

No stone trowing from me here this time, so please do take it easy.

Has it ever dawned on any that such an order of world wide dominance was foretold in the writings of John. Even as John wrote these words down as he was instructed to write, He himself thought it would all come to be within his life time if not shortly there after.

The reason being were of his writings so closely resembled the then modern day Rome of his time.

Though from earlier writings of Ezekiel Rome was visioned as having two legs, which later after John's time proved to be one in Constatinople while the other was in Rome it's self.

But it was the feet with 10 toes being mired in clay that was the last worldly kingdom in Daniels interpretated dreams of King Nebuchadnezzar These 10 toes mired in clay would actually be this final last attempt of mans for world wide domination. This was then later believed closer to our present time, to be a revival of the Roman Impire though not as closly knit. This being futher represented by the toes being mired in clay. Clay does not mix well with iron from this vision of Daniels.

Again this proving of a poor mix of clay and iron is represented to this very day. Through the prodings of the European Union these 10 nations while talking as one aren't quite as closely knit as they were under Roman rule.

Yet today this One World Order has all it's root firmly planted within the confines of the Eropean Market, which in reality is the old Roman Impire.

Some might very well believe this is all just a big bunch of hocus-pocus, but it has to at least draw some thoughts to ones mind. Beings these very words were all written down from 1900 to 2300 years ago?? After all were talking about the Bible, so this is no off the shelf of a book that's suddenly an over night sensation where everyone might be gossiping all about.

Should one do further exploring of these words they claim it will be the last final attempt. Melliniums ago they didn't really have the power to hold onto a complete world wide dominance. Though today we know that were dealing with a whole other ball game as far as world wide dominanve is concerned. Such a thing is absolutely possible these days. Though nothing is really new under the sun, as such dreams have been around forever, and the out come this time will result with no real difference aside from what I know to be the obvious outcome, that being this time around.

I give back the floor to the speaker. Yet I still have two minutes on the clock.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

FOAK Idea of disconnecting from money all together are not the visions of complete foolishness. as money is worth nothing more than what we agree upon. aside from that it's basicaly just pictures of dead presidents all possing as if to be looking afar.

Having not even a smile??

Not that you should follow my lead,, but a little Gold and silver might just be the ticket to get you out of a jam. should all come tumbling down.

I mean after all,, have you ever held a gold American eagle in your hand? The weight of Gold is quite unique. Lead or Iron are heavy, but there nothing even close to matching the feel of gold. You might think you would be the least little interested, but place a one ounce Eagle in your hand, and I gaurantee you'll not soon forget where you last placed it.

Dob!

[fatherofaking]

Well Dob, i must say i rather enjoyed those last two posts of yours for a change.

I am well aware of what has been said about what is written in the 27th book of the New Testament.
The funny thing about what you posted is that it sounded just like what the Twelve Tribes teaches.
That is not to say that you are wrong, it just struck me as humorous how things can be sometimes.
I have known all along that many of us share more in common than we realize.
I think it is soon coming time that we begin to recognize it and get on with what is important instead of all this "other stuff" (not sure what to call it) that has been going on.
If the things that i brought up here ring true to any of you then you know that it is time we started acting like who we say we are.
It is time to show fruit of our repentance.
Unless of course there was no repentance.
The jury is still deliberating on some of us i am afraid.

I think your advice to aquire gold may be a good one Dob.
I am afraid i am going to have to rely on the mercy of God if the proverbial @#$& hits the fan as they say.
At least i am in good company on that one.
We have many examples of God's mercy.
May we all come to rely on it.

[fatherofaking]

I am sorry you feel the way you do Dodge.
I will leave you with another piece of my delusion.

enjoy!

Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives
September 10, 2002

ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE
Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce legislation to restore financial stability to America's economy by abolishing the Federal Reserve. I also ask unanimous consent to insert the attached article by Lew Rockwell, president of the Ludwig Von Mises Institute, which explains the benefits of abolishing the Fed and restoring the gold standard, into the record.

Since the creation of the Federal Reserve, middle and working-class Americans have been victimized by a boom-and-bust monetary policy. In addition, most Americans have suffered a steadily eroding purchasing power because of the Federal Reserve's inflationary policies. This represents a real, if hidden, tax imposed on the American people.

From the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the seventies, to the burst of the dotcom bubble last year, every economic downturn suffered by the country over the last 80 years can be traced to Federal Reserve policy. The Fed has followed a consistent policy of flooding the economy with easy money, leading to a misallocation of resources and an artificial "boom" followed by a recession or depression when the Fed-created bubble bursts.

With a stable currency, American exporters will no longer be held hostage to an erratic monetary policy. Stabilizing the currency will also give Americans new incentives to save as they will no longer have to fear inflation eroding their savings. Those members concerned about increasing America's exports or the low rate of savings should be enthusiastic supporters of this legislation.

Though the Federal Reserve policy harms the average American, it benefits those in a position to take advantage of the cycles in monetary policy. The main beneficiaries are those who receive access to artificially inflated money and/or credit before the inflationary effects of the policy impact the entire economy. Federal Reserve policies also benefit big spending politicians who use the inflated currency created by the Fed to hide the true costs of the welfare-warfare state. It is time for Congress to put the interests of the American people ahead of the special interests and their own appetite for big government.

Abolishing the Federal Reserve will allow Congress to reassert its constitutional authority over monetary policy. The United States Constitution grants to Congress the authority to coin money and regulate the value of the currency. The Constitution does not give Congress the authority to delegate control over monetary policy to a central bank. Furthermore, the Constitution certainly does not empower the federal government to erode the American standard of living via an inflationary monetary policy.

In fact, Congress' constitutional mandate regarding monetary policy should only permit currency backed by stable commodities such as silver and gold to be used as legal tender. Therefore, abolishing the Federal Reserve and returning to a constitutional system will enable America to return to the type of monetary system envisioned by our nation's founders: one where the value of money is consistent because it is tied to a commodity such as gold. Such a monetary system is the basis of a true free-market economy.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to stand up for working Americans by putting an end to the manipulation of the money supply which erodes Americans' standard of living, enlarges big government, and enriches well-connected elites, by cosponsoring my legislation to abolish the Federal Reserve.
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002b.htm

[dobman53]

Here's one thing I'll mention about the monetary system.

Let's just say we did return to a system backed by Gold.

Of course the US government did at one time have such a system. Back then in order to controll inflation the government was forced to manipulate the price of Gold. How they did it was with the federal reserve of Gold. They accomplished this in two manners. If the price was to drop they would no longer release gold to the public domain there by causing a shortage for demand, and prices would then go up. They did the opposite when prices went up, as they then would flood the market and the prices would go down.

There was a price to pay for all this as the growth of money was completely stagnant. Today with all these new goodies we now have at our desposall ,,should have bread prices remained the same as well as all prices,, and beings we had a non-growing money supply there then would never be enough money to then purchase all the new goodies.

This system for all practical purposes could no longer be supported, as by the turn of the centry in 1900 far to many new things were coming to market with never enough money for the average man to then purchase them. Compoud this with the stock market of the 1920's being run up with non-existent money to pay off investors. By 1932 President Rosevelt had no other option than to abolished the gold standard. As people in general were feeling their gold backed dollars were no longer any good and what gold had been coined up intill that time was being hoarded simply because if you were to spend your gold the change you would recieve in return would the be nothing more than pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on it.

So president Rosevelt then made it illegal for Americans to have gold in their possession. As cash was needed and with hoards of gold flowing back into the treasury the federal government then took out right total controll of all American currencies. Be they coinage or green backs. As then it was no longer an issue of trust but a matter of law.

As we speak the Federal Reserve tries it's best with the releasing of money to controll inflation. As more and more new products come to market each day there needs to be a constant ,,yet controlled amount of new money coming into the system. Should this balancing act get out of controll by Congress passing new laws that direct the Federal Reserve to issue more and more cash, with out this balancing act controlling the supply, inflation will devour our money just as fast as we can print it.

This collaps will make this One Word Order all the more appealing as time passes by, and soon we will then be forced to toe the line. As our very own destony shall have then slipped from our hands. Should we then turn to fight such a system even our neigbors will not support us as they'll see no other alternative, and then feel this is by far our best option

This is not a matter to take lightly, you've only to look within yourself and know this is true. Utimate power equals ultimate corruption. All human history proves this to be so. But one thing about mankind learning ultimately from history. Is mankind has ultimately never learned a thing from history. So history shall repeat it's self this one last time with one single purpose of this one single man.

Oh it's going to be portrayed as all so rosie and sweet when things first get started with this change, and yes for awhile all our neighbors will be loving it all to pieces. But all good things need to be payed for eventually, and in one hour you'll see the ultimate tumble of all. Even our gold will then do us no good, as life will then be our only desire.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

These are quotes by the man who instituted the private banking system in this country.
Since that time we have experienced the most turmoil in the history of our country.

I must make mention of the fact that i occasionally find quotes that seem to either be contradicting or just plain confusing at times.
I cannot be certain of the complete validity of these quotes


A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.
Woodrow WilsonIf there are men in this country big enough to own the government of the United States, they are going to own it.
Woodrow WilsonThe government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.
Woodrow Wilson"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom."
Excerpt from 1912 campaign speech "We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men." Excerpt frpm 1912 campaign speech

[fatherofaking]

Dennis Kucinich States His Intention To Put The Federal Reserve Under Government Control

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g&eurl=http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel

[truth_child]

the new world order , is a bunch that should neve be allowed to control anything. we have had our right takena way and even now more are being taken it is awful

[dodge]

Hi Dobman53. You wrote that “an order of world wide dominance was forefold in the writings of John.” Could you cite chapter and verse so that I could see the exact wording? Then we can discuss interpretation and meaning. You also mention “earlier writings of Ezekiel.” I would ask that when you do this, please specify chapter and verse so that we can take a look and see what you’re referring to. Thank you.

You mention the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, where he supposedly saw a very bright image with a head of gold, breast and arms of silver and belly and thighs of brass, legs of iron and feet made partly of iron and clay. Then a “stone that was cut without hands” smote the image and broke it into pieces that was carried away by the wind. Then this stone became a mountain and filled the whole earth. (Daniel 2:31-36)

How do you interpret this to mean that a New World Order will enslave humanity sometime in the future? It seems to me that it would take a great deal of creative reworking of the original text of the Bible until you wrangle it into meaning what you believe it does.

Now, you tell us that the “One World Order” is in control of the European Market which “in reality is the Old Roman Empire.” Could you explain to me how the financial structure of the European Union is actually the Roman Empire?

[dodge]

Father of a King -- How does the Federal Reserve system and Ron Paul’s efforts to abolish it relate to the so-called New World Order? You cite many quotes about banking; but how is all of that connected to the subject of this thread, the New World Order? Do you believe that it’s all being orchestrated by a secret powerful cabal of Kenites (the Illuminati, secret societies, whatever you want to call them)? You made reference to the Bush family and Kissinger. Are they part of the New World Order? Who else do you believe are members of this evil conspiracy to dominate and control, and what are their motives?

Do you believe that the United Nations is controlled by these secret societies, and evil in nature? If so, in what way? What can you offer as proof?

[fatherofaking]

Father of a King -- How does the Federal Reserve system and Ron Paul’s efforts to abolish it relate to the so-called New World Order? You cite many quotes about banking; but how is all of that connected to the subject of this thread, the New World Order? Do you believe that it’s all being orchestrated by a secret powerful cabal of Kenites (the Illuminati, secret societies, whatever you want to call them)? You made reference to the Bush family and Kissinger. Are they part of the New World Order? Who else do you believe are members of this evil conspiracy to dominate and control, and what are their motives?

Do you believe that the United Nations is controlled by these secret societies, and evil in nature? If so, in what way? What can you offer as proof?

Stick it Dodge.
Do whatever you have to do but i am not playing your games anymore.

Hey Dob, don't fall for his tricks.
he is just baiting you so he can ridicule you like he did me.
He may even threaten you if he gets a mind to.

[dodge]

"Stick it Dodge?" Father of a King, I apologized for the ridicule when I mentioned tin foil hats and aluminum foil on your walls. Why would you say that I would threaten anyone?

[fatherofaking]

"Stick it Dodge?" Father of a King, I apologized for the ridicule when I mentioned tin foil hats and aluminum foil on your walls. Why would you say that I would threaten anyone?

Because you threatened me Dodge.
Do i have to post the message?

[dodge]

I'll post that private message myself that I sent to you. It was in response to your question, "Why would you want to discuss the New World Order." I said:

"Why would I want to discuss such a subject? As part of the Illuminati/New World Order, it is my job to refute all those who attempt to convince others that we exist. In fact, our special agents are now hacking your computer in order to obtain your address so that we can silence you for good. Mwa, ha, ha."

Do you really consider this obvious joke a threat?

[fatherofaking]

I'll post that private message myself that I sent to you. It was in response to your question, "Why would you want to discuss the New World Order." I said:

"Why would I want to discuss such a subject? As part of the Illuminati/New World Order, it is my job to refute all those who attempt to convince others that we exist. In fact, our special agents are now hacking your computer in order to obtain your address so that we can silence you for good. Mwa, ha, ha."

Do you really consider this obvious joke a threat?

Obvious joke?
You are a piece of work.
Take your jokes elsewhere, i do not find them funny.

[dodge]

You don't have much of a sense of humor, do you Father of a King? But I find that those who are involved in obsessive conspiracy theory scenarios generally tend to be unhappy people. It's all part of the pathology.

[fatherofaking]

You don't have much of a sense of humor, do you Father of a King? But I find that those who are involved in obsessive conspiracy theory scenarios generally tend to be unhappy people. It's all part of the pathology.

Go ahead Dodge continue making yourself out to be the fool.
You have said nothing to counter the things i have posted and your accusation that i am unhappy because i research things you find foolish is ridiculous and you know it.
You are acting as if you are stupid Dodge.

All you do is attack, ridicule and demean.
Do you have anything else?
Probably not.
I have little interest in continuing this conversation.

[dodge]

Goodbye, Father of a King. Don't be sad. Remember, it's all illusion.

[jargon631]

i was raised with endtime/one gov./conspiracy theories as part of my daily indoctrination...jesus is coming tommorow...the pyramid and eye on the dollar bill is a secret code that only masons understand...masons alternately both rule the world and worship satan...the illuminati has a bar code that they will put on all people who arent adventists (mark of the beast)...i guess they will scan us like groceries...lol...then the catholics will hunt down the sda members and force them to (gasp, shudder)GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY...the pope is the anti-christ with sixsixsix engraved on his crown...when a 4th grade classmate brought "foxes book of martyrs" to school one day the teacher(im not kidding here) COVERED THE WINDOWS so that catholics couldnt break in and steal that book...i guess it had a homing device of some kind...the list continues ad nauseum...i just dont beleve in "New World Orders"...remember the fakery that was "the protocol of the elders of zion?"...i believe it was written by tsarist pogram apologists in order to justify the persecution and murder of an entire population...as far as a "one world order" goes?...i dont think that the governments of the world can remove their craniums from their collective gluteus maximae long enough to order a pizza, much less take over the globe...fd

[ba2]

There may be real conspiracies out there, but nothing like this.

The only people who would make a serious connection with the united Europe theory are the fundamentalists who want to believe that the end is near and Jesus is returning very soon. First of all, that prophesy is so vague that anytime there seems to be a potential unification/takeover of Europe, the theories abound.

First, the first Christians expected the end of times and his return to happen before the end of the 1st century, but it didn’t happen.
Then, Attila in the 400’s threatened to capture all of Rome’s empire.
Again, Christians were waiting for the end of times and the return of Jesus.
Then with the rise of the Holy Roman Empire, made possible by the fall of Rome and possibly the death of Attila, many thought this might be the great unification.
Centuries later, Hitler, etc, etc. etc.

There have always been dreams of great European conquest – Alexander, Cesar, Attila, Hitler and others. Same in other places – Mohammed conquered most of the old Roman Empire in the 600’s – From Turkey around and south of the Mediterranean and into Spain. He was stopped just short. Kahn took over most of Asia in the 1200’s and even moved into Northern Europe. Had the dynasty moved south, the conquests would have generated more biblical worries.

Have a look at the maps. Hitler actually came much closer to re-creating the Roman Empire.

Map of European Union – does not extend into the southern or eastern Roman Empire, but extends further north
http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries/index_en.htm

Map of Roman Empire
http://intranet.dalton.org/groups/Rome/RMap.html

It is a natural thought process – to think that the world will be dominated or saved by one person/group. This is how it has always been. Throughout history, countries/tribes/dynasties have been taken over by others. And countries/tribes/dynasties have always moved to gain regional/continental dominance. It is not a huge leap to dream up the idea that Rome would eventually fall and somehow someone else would take control and re-unite the old Roman Empire.

Anyone who keeps pushing the “end is near” panic button is doing nothing more than using a scare tactic. In the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter if the end comes soon or billions of years from now. This is the scam - The end is near, so you may as well give everything you got to your church - and recruit others to give too.

[jargon631]

correct..."give me all your money for only I, with my special knowledge, can save u from mankinds ultimate demise"...it also makes groups of people more pliable when u can keep their heads spinning from one manufactured threat to the next...after all, if there's no threat, then there's no reason to give your money and allegiance to some earthbound "savior"...fd

[ba2]

This is exactly what all these “end of times” conspiracies are all about. It is a way to extract money from the gullible. At the same time I do believe that many of these “ministers” are really sincere. They have been taken in by their teachers, who were taken in by their teachers, and so on.

There have been numerous “end of time” predictions every generation throughout written history. None of them ever came to pass. Many of them were calculated by reading the ancient texts, such as the bible; still, none of them ever came to pass. My advice to everyone, don’t believe anyone who makes an end of time prediction. You have nothing to gain, even if they actually were right. But when you hear someone talking about the impending end of time, hang on to your wallet.

[fatherofaking]

So you think i am doing this because i want peoples money Ba2?
The truth is i am open to every idea that is posted.
I got to this place by listening not by making things up.
I do not intend to stop listening now.

The one thing i would like to try and clear up here is the difference between end times and New World order.

The advent of the NWO does not mean the world is going to end.
What it means is that we are headed for world wide slavery.
You can believe it or not believe it, it matters not to me.
I will just keep putting this stuff out there and let you all make your own decision.

You seem to forget one thing Ba2.
Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass.
Knowledge is increasing exponentially.
This is not something that has ever happened before.
I do believe that the seal on Daniels prophecy has been broken.


Here are some things to consider regarding that prophecy.
Remember that the book of revelation says that there will be people that want to die but are not able to.

Eternal life is just around the corner folks.

Would you like to live forever?
Click on the video below to listen to Aubrey de Grey, Chairman and Chief Science Officer of the Methuselah Foundation -http://www.bloggingthesingularity.com/2008/12/12/human-life-extension-aubrey-de-grey/




His future vision is about knowledge explosion, computing, the biological revolution, the nanotechnology revolution and the organization of the human brain. As usual it is a mind blowing collection of great value to those of us who care where the future is taking us.
To grapple with the information contained in this expansion of the human potential over the next four decades takes an open mind and a willingness to accept at least some of what you may not understand.
http://ebooksaboutsociety.blogspot.com/2008/12/singularity-is-near-ebook-editions-far.html




March 31, 2007

Congress and the Singularity

"Nanotechnology: The Future is Coming Sooner Than You Think" is the title of a report (http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/110/nanotechnology_03-22-07.pdf) [PDF] published this month by Representative Jim Saxton (R-NJ), Ranking Member of the Joint Economic Committee, United States Congress. The paper, authored by Dr. Joseph Kennedy, Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University, says:Enhanced abilities to understand and manipulate matter at the molecular and atomic levels promise a wave of significant new technologies over the next five decades. Dramatic breakthroughs will occur in diverse areas such as medicine, communications, computing, energy, and robotics. These changes will generate large amounts of wealth and force wrenching changes in existing markets and institutions.And that's just the beginning of a surprisingly stark assessment of nanotechnology's transformative potential. The first section opens with this paragraph:
http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/treder20070401/

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. You mentioned that “Daniel's prophecy is clearly coming to pass.” Could you cite the chapter and verse where this is written so that we can discuss exactly what it says and how it relates to your belief in a “New World Order” where everyone, as you say, will be slaves? Let's deal with one thing at a time, OK? It's difficult to respond to so many references all at once.

[stage director]

Dodge, knock it off. As far as I can tell, FoaK treats you like a real person regardless of what you do, or do not, believe ... and without ridicule. Give him that same respect. And for Pete's sake, respect that he has arrived at some different conclusions and at least consider the possibility he didn't do that lightly. Can't we listen to/debate with each other without judging????

[stage director]

Hmmm ... perhaps never mind. It looks like you may have considered that already.

[fatherofaking]

I connected the words in this book with the singularity.
The singularity is based on an exponential increase in knowledge that will lead to a paradigm shift.
This is common knowledge that a paradigm shift is going to take place.
That will happen when machines reach the limits of human intelligence and begin to go beyond it.
At this point we are going to have human like androids walking around on the street that will not be able to be distinguishable from a human being.
The only thing that distinguishes us from machines is consciousness.
Consciousness will be easily mimicked by these robots.
We will not be able to prove if they are conscious or not just by talking to them.
Is that enough?
I am sure you are going to question how and why i make the connection with the book of Daniel even though i just told you.
That my friend does not come through common knowledge.
That comes from much study and prayer.
Like you Dodge i work on myself.
One first has to have some faith in the Bible to even consider such a thing.
I know you do not have that, so i know you will think what i am saying is foolishness.
So be it.

Maybe someday we can discuss why i put so much trust in the Bible.
I think i can clearly show that the Bible is not just another book.
But that is another subject.
Unless that is what this all hinges on for you.
Then maybe we will need to discuss that topic.




Dan. 12:5-13

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

[fatherofaking]

Dodge, knock it off. As far as I can tell, FoaK treats you like a real person regardless of what you do, or do not, believe ... and without ridicule. Give him that same respect. And for Pete's sake, respect that he has arrived at some different conclusions and at least consider the possibility he didn't do that lightly. Can't we listen to/debate with each other without judging????


Thanks SD.
Dodge and i have worked things out for the time being.
You all are unaware of it because we did it privately.

[stage director]

Uhh, I guess then that was one of those "open mouth, insert foot" moments, hey?

Pardon me, Dodge ... it seems you didn't need a lecture. :)

[dodge]

Howdy Father of a King. It appears that you’re talking about the event that has been portrayed in such movies as Terminator, where the world wide net attains autonomous consciousness and rebels against humans. This is the point when systems with artificial intelligence become sentient and revolt against its creators. Sort of like Frankenstein, isn’t it? Victor thinks about it when his creation asks for a female companion, and if they would reproduce to make a race of beings that would destroy humanity.

I don’t know what to make of your prediction that there will be androids walking around looking exactly like humans (Data on Star Trek: Next Generation; and Andrew in Bicentennial Man). How close do you feel the scientific community is to creating a human-like android that could not be distinguished from a human? The research and development would take many billions of dollars. With the world wide economic collapse, I don’t see funds being channeled into this kind of technology.

At any rate -- artificial intelligence achieving consciousness and revolting against those who created it (sort of like man and God, isn’t it?) and androids amongst us indistinguishable from humans is great science fiction material. Wonderful stories have and will be created out of these ideas; but I don’t see any of this becoming reality.

As far as the Bible, you’re right…I see it as an ancient book with a cult-like following, and faith in it is passed on as memes (mental viruses) causing people to believe in invisible beings that have no existence outside of their minds. I don’t mean to sound condescending, it’s just the way I feel…it is my opinion based on decades of study, consideration and direct experience. But you’re right, that’s an entirely different conversation that would take us way off the topic of the New World Order.

[fatherofaking]

Howdy Father of a King. It appears that you’re talking about the event that has been portrayed in such movies as Terminator, where the world wide net attains autonomous consciousness and rebels against humans. This is the point when systems with artificial intelligence become sentient and revolt against its creators. Sort of like Frankenstein, isn’t it? Victor thinks about it when his creation asks for a female companion, and if they would reproduce to make a race of beings that would destroy humanity.

I don’t know what to make of your prediction that there will be androids walking around looking exactly like humans (Data on Star Trek: Next Generation; and Andrew in Bicentennial Man). How close do you feel the scientific community is to creating a human-like android that could not be distinguished from a human? The research and development would take many billions of dollars. With the world wide economic collapse, I don’t see funds being channeled into this kind of technology.

At any rate -- artificial intelligence achieving consciousness and revolting against those who created it (sort of like man and God, isn’t it?) and androids amongst us indistinguishable from humans is great science fiction material. Wonderful stories have and will be created out of these ideas; but I don’t see any of this becoming reality.

As far as the Bible, you’re right…I see it as an ancient book with a cult-like following, and faith in it is passed on as memes (mental viruses) causing people to believe in invisible beings that have no existence outside of their minds. I don’t mean to sound condescending, it’s just the way I feel…it is my opinion based on decades of study, consideration and direct experience. But you’re right, that’s an entirely different conversation that would take us way off the topic of the New World Order.


I said nothing about machines turning on humans Dodge.

I believe the time frame is 2025.
I will have to look it up.

[stage director]

androids amongst us indistinguishable from humans is great science fiction material. Wonderful stories have and will be created out of these ideas; but I don’t see any of this becoming reality.


I dunno, Dodge ... apparently, the scientific community expects that extremely sophisticated robotics/artificial intelligence is right around the corner. I read a few articles awhile back in some well known periodicals and was a little freaked out. They were talking to people the likes of Stephen Hawking and Rodney Brooks.

[fatherofaking]

Scientists have created the first 'humanoid' robot that can mimic the facial expressions and lip movements of a human being.
'Jules' - a disembodied androgynous robotic head - can automatically copy the movements, which are picked up by a video camera and mapped on to the tiny electronic motors in his skin.
It can grin and grimace, furrow its brow and 'speak' as his software translates real expressions observed through video camera 'eyes'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1085059/Pictured-The-robot-pull-faces-just-like-human-being.html


The Most Advanced Quadruped Robot on Earth
BigDog is the alpha male of the Boston Dynamics family of robots. It is a quadruped robot that walks, runs, and climbs on rough terrain and carries heavy loads. BigDog is powered by a gasoline engine that drives a hydraulic actuation system.http://www.bostondynamics.com/content/sec.php?section=BigDog





When will the Turing Test (http://www.silicon.com/research/specialreports/agenda-setters-2008/artificial-intelligence-put-to-the-turing-test-39300667.htm) be passed? And what will it mean for human society?
I've been quite consistent that it'll happen by 2029… I think [the rules that a computer passes if it fools the judges 30 per cent of the time are] actually too lenient - in the recent test it fooled the judges 25 per cent of the time. Every time they run that test the computers do a little bit better. The first reports [of a computer passing] I probably won't accept it myself… but then as time goes on the computers will pass more and more stringent sets of rules and by 2029 it'll be unarguable that computers have passed. And I do think it's a good test. It's not by the way a test of human consciousness - it's a test of human intelligence. Which is something we can objectively measure even though we can argue about how to measure it.
Consciousness is not something we can readily measure in another entity. However in order for a computer or any entity to pass the Turing Test it has to master human emotion - and human emotion is not some sideshow. What humans do well is both pattern recognition and our emotional thinking - which is a form of recognising patterns that we find in situations. Getting the joke, being funny, expressing a loving sentiment - these are actually the most complicated things we do, the cutting edge of human intelligence.
http://www.silicon.com/silicon/management/itpro/0,39024675,39345605,00.htm

[dodge]

Hi Stage. Really? The scientific community is close to building an android that would be indistinguishable from a human, that could walk amongst us without being detected? Well, then I need to do some research and educate myself. Perhaps my assumptions are not based on fact. I’ll look into it. Thanks.

What’s next? Uploading human consciousness into these androids as a means of immortality?

[stage director]

Come on, Dodge. I didn't say anything about imposter humans and androids. Here's a few articles/videos on the subject ... two interviews of scientists on the Charlie Rose Show and an article in Science Daily:

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/1128
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEstOd8xyeQ
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081221215537.htm

[fatherofaking]

What’s next? Uploading human consciousness into these androids as a means of immortality?

maybe.

They (Scientists) are talking about uploading human brains into a computer to obtain immortality.

[dodge]

Wow, FOAK, those articles that you posted about what's being accomplished in robotics are amazing! Big Dog is incredible. You've opened me up to an area that I hadn't had a clue about. I'm humbled and somewhat ashamed of my arrogance, talking like I knew something. I need to admit my ignorance and thank you for teaching me about these things. Now it's my job to educate myself so that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Same with you, Stage. Thanks for the links, and I'm going to be spending some time this evening reading. I apologize for my know-it-all attitude, both of you.

[stage director]

For the record, I don't believe androids are mingling with humans, or that that's even possible at this time in history ... but the confidence in what scientists believe they can accomplish was way beyond what I would have ever imagined.

[ba2]

So you think i am doing this because i want peoples money Ba2?
The truth is i am open to every idea that is posted.
I got to this place by listening not by making things up.
I do not intend to stop listening now.

The one thing i would like to try and clear up here is the difference between end times and New World order.

The advent of the NWO does not mean the world is going to end.
What it means is that we are headed for world wide slavery.
You can believe it or not believe it, it matters not to me.
I will just keep putting this stuff out there and let you all make your own decision.

You seem to forget one thing Ba2.
Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass.
Knowledge is increasing exponentially.
This is not something that has ever happened before.
I do believe that the seal on Daniels prophecy has been broken.


Here are some things to consider regarding that prophecy.
Remember that the book of revelation says that there will be people that want to die but are not able to.

Eternal life is just around the corner folks.

http://www.bloggingthesingularity.com/2008/12/12/human-life-extension-aubrey-de-grey/




http://ebooksaboutsociety.blogspot.com/2008/12/singularity-is-near-ebook-editions-far.html




http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/treder20070401/

If you read my entire post, I clearly stated that many ministers are sincere. I am quite sure my pastor is very sincere when he discusses tithing and the end times. I don't know you but I have no reason to doubt your sincerity. My point is that the scripture, in my opinion, has been corrupted pretty much from the first time it was put down in writing.

Some people will want to die but won't be able to. That isn't prophesy, that has always been a fact. We see it in hospitals and homes for the old folks all the time. The Romans were very good at keeping the crucified alive for long periods of time. And yes, robots are getting better - I wouldn't be surprised if we see them delivering the mail in our lifetime.

You claim that Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass. Well, maybe, maybe not. But I don't see any proof of it. At least nothing greater than what the world has been hearing for thousands of years. You think we are close to having a brain transplanted so we could live forever. Not likely in my lifetime, probably won't ever happen. But I won't say it can't happen. Science can do some amazing things.

The proposed requirement to tithe is the biggest scam put out by the church. God did not need or desire that we tithe, that was one of the first biblical corruptions, probably started by Moses. Scarring people into thinking that the end is near, that the prophesies are being fulfilled, is nothing more than a scare tactic. Designed to gain control and collect cash. Yes, it is a scam that originated thousands of years ago and has been so successful that it continues to this day.

You don't need to proselytize me. I'm sure you mean well, but ones faith should not make one look foolish to the rest of the world. I will not throw away my common sense.

[fatherofaking]

You don't need to proselytize me. I'm sure you mean well, but ones faith should not make one look foolish to the rest of the world. I will not throw away my common sense.

Sorry BA, i didn't know i was coming across as proselytizing you.
I don't know if the common sense thing was criticism or not.
It really doesn't matter to me, i think i have plenty of common sense.

[fatherofaking]

Wow, FOAK, those articles that you posted about what's being accomplished in robotics are amazing! Big Dog is incredible. You've opened me up to an area that I hadn't had a clue about. I'm humbled and somewhat ashamed of my arrogance, talking like I knew something. I need to admit my ignorance and thank you for teaching me about these things. Now it's my job to educate myself so that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Same with you, Stage. Thanks for the links, and I'm going to be spending some time this evening reading. I apologize for my know-it-all attitude, both of you.


Well Dodge i must say i am impressed.
There are few on this message board in the circle we run in that would ever say anything remotely close to what you just did.
This is the kind of thing that impresses me.
Anyone that has the courage to admit that they were wrong, admit their ignorance and apologize when the have wronged someone gets high marks from me.
Very impressive Dodge.
Thank you.

[stage director]

Hey, if I hadn't heard for myself about some of the breakthroughs in AI/Robotics from some pretty credible scientific sources, I would have assumed it was a wacky thought, too. I still don't know that they can accomplish their goals, but ... the subject matter is indeed scientific in nature.

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. Well, I’m feeling humble today. I had this glimpse of myself as I must sound to others, and I didn’t like it. It was sort of a gestalt, as if I were looking at myself from without. What I saw was someone who appeared to have a closed mind, who wasn’t open to new ideas or possibilities and was talking out of his a$$. It was a shock!

Anyway, we were talking about the New World Order, that idea that there are very powerfully influencial people who control the world behind the scenes. I’m sure that there are things that go on in world governments, in banking institutions, in the world of science and politics that I know nothing about. How can I assume that it isn’t true that there are those who are pulling the strings, with plans that I can’t even imagine? Are these people just extremely wealthy intelligent powerful humans who control the way things are run in the world, or is it something more? Are they good or evil, or something that transcends both? Do they have powers that I can’t imagine, occult or supernatural, that they acquired somehow (perhaps through initiation in secret mystical fraternaties)? Is it even possible for people such as us, who don’t have access to the higher echelons of power, to know what’s really going on?

I have a friend who even suggests that there are beings who manipulate events in order to create conflict and war in order to increase global fear and anxiety because this is what they live on, ingest, need for their survival. How can I know what’s true and what’s not? There are so many conspiracy theories out there, from reptilian shapeshifting aliens to mystic occult secret societies and Kenites. I’m sure that none of them is going to visit me and tell me what’s really going on. If the New World Order is so powerful and secret, it seems to me that they would see to it that information about them is never revealed; and that those who got close to them would be silenced in one way or another. That would include the internet, which is most likely filled with misinformation about who they are just to throw people off.

What do you think?

[dobman53]

I'll add my two cents.

Were all aware of how computers seem to get better and better with every passing year.
On these advances have hinged the great strides in poductuvity we've all enjoyed. Lets take forinstance the cell phone, I can remember flying to LA from where I live here in Sacramento. I was on business and it was the first time I'd traveled having a cell phone. I can remember being in awe when calling for a cab there thinking these things are unreal. Mind you this was one of those cell phones that looked like a large walky-talky.
these days that old dinasaur is all but a memory.

Though here's my point with what were destoned to be up against when this yearly increase of present day technology soon reaches its end. Now I can imagine your thinking just what am I driving at as computers get better and better every year?? Well we've just about reached the end with the computing power we can place upon a chip. by that I'm saying the enternal connections within computers are soon to reach their limits to which electricity can travel between. right now these connections are approuching such small widths where were litteraly down to the point where they can almost count the number of atoms in their widths. should they get much smaller they'll rurn out of capacity to conduct electicity. Similar to how light bulbs fry their elements.

What this concievably adds up to should computers soon cease in their abilties to drive more and more advancements. Knowing this our reliance on these yearly advancements have inturn diven our economic engines to higher and higher capacities, what will happen should this soon cease. Just exacty how to realise what this in totall could mean. I'm myself can't say with any assuredy, but what ever it adds up to I'm sure it's not good.

Dodge might very well dislike what I'm to say next as he gets real upset with me when ever I talk even close to any such subjects. But some years ago from my pounders in thought, and now such things are coming to possbly be of age. Anyways here back in the 80's I was writing programs for computers, and let me tell you I was having a hell of a time. I had papers stacked all over the place as I was typing 1000's of these lines of imformation, all to have it so graphs could then over lay another graph for comparisons.

I soon got so rip roaring mad I tossed the whole mess in the trash. As no matter how hard I tried I kept finding flaws that popped up in the program. Though come to find out later thoughs flaws were not from my making as there were glitches in the computer it's self. It was then when I lost all interest in computers.

Yet here's were I'm leading to in DNA there are similar codes as that of computers. They differ in one major way. Where coputers have all ones and zero's thoughs being off and on switches. In DNA they have both off and on switches as well as muliple conections being designated by letters. What this could mean for our advancements in computers should we one day combined such DNA technology within the confines of a chip would result in endless possibitities. as Just one lone single connection haveing such mutiple conections all this mind you in just one lone connection out of the computers millions of connections. knowing with that one single connection alone within a computers capacity would be mutiplied it's capacity 16 times. Now mutiply that by the millions of connections, and let me tell you the sky would be the limit.

Chances are my message got lost in just me trying to type it out, but one things for sure our present day computers cannot maintain these advancments for to much longer. As their reduction in size can only go so far. When we reach connections that are down to a few atoms in width, their sure to blow a fuse.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

Oh I forgot to add when some one ceases upon this technolgy and has it in their sole possession they could concievably rule the world.

Dob!!

[ba2]

Sorry BA, i didn't know i was coming across as proselytizing you.
I don't know if the common sense thing was criticism or not.
It really doesn't matter to me, i think i have plenty of common sense.

I wasn't criticising, but sometimes the text may appear that way. I was actually responding to your statements:

you said "Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass." Every generation for thousands of years has been saying something to this effect. No reason to believe it now. The flim-flam artists use this a lot.

you said "Knowledge is increasing exponentially." Not any more than we have seen in the past. There have been numerous periods of enlighenment. Somehow religious fundamentalism knocks it back. Right now we are in a technological age. It might be different than the past advances, but it is no more significant. Hopefully, we will continue to advance and build on current knowledge.

you said "This is not something that has ever happened before." I, along with many others disagree. Of course, there is more knowledge worldwide and we will continue to expand on that knowledge. We advance in areas of either need or significant interest.

you said "I do believe that the seal on Daniels prophecy has been broken..." At least you admit it is your belief. I don't see anything that would cause me to have that conclusion.

you said "...Remember that the book of revelation says that there will be people that want to die but are not able to" This has always been true. Nothing different now.

you said "Eternal life is just around the corner folks...." Not likely in our generation. But a few celebreties had their bodies frozen so they could be brought back to life sometime in the future. So, some people think it can happen.

The topic of this thread is New World Order. I agree, there may be a new world order taking place. but this has nothing to do with the bible. The predictions of a "New World Order" are vauge enough that any change in world power can be viewed as scriptural. It seems that every decade has a prediction of the end of the world by every civilization who inhabited Earth. Every generation has people who make a living by making predictions. Some predictors are better than others, but they all make mistakes.

[dodge]

Good morning, Dob. What a glorious day. After the snowstorm that lasted all day yesterday dumped about five or six inches on us here in Newburyport, I awoke this morning to sunlight streaming through the windows reflecting off all that snow. I’m heading out to the health club in a half hour or so, so I thought I would respond to what you wrote here while relaxing with a cup of coffee and some oatmeal.

I’m having a very hard time figuring out just what you’re trying to say. You talked of old cell phones, of computer chips reaching a limit to storage capacity and how that will affect the economy, how you once were a computer programmer back in the ‘80s, how there are on and off switches within the structure of DNA and how it would be interesting if computer chips and DNA could be combined, and how it is possible that this technology could give some people great power to rule the world.

Anything is possible; even building androids with DNA/computer chip technology that could be used as the soldiers of the future; or as slaves to do the menial work. I suppose there are scenarios where we could even learn how to transfer human consciousness into these cybernetic units…though with my limited knowledge of such things I have no idea if this is possible or just a science fiction plots for entertainment purposes. Sure, the New World Order could build an army of cybernetic zombies as a police force to take over and enslave the human race; but do you really think this is likely?

The odds are equally possible that a race of extraterrestrials will arrive and either destroy our planet and all that’s on it or use us as a slave force to mine the minerals they need…or even use us as their food source. Of course, these extraterrestrials or interdimensional beings might even come here and help us, teach us how to establish permanent world peace and introduce us to a galactic alliance of sentient beings from thousands of star systems or even other planes of existence that we had no idea existed. The scenarios are limitless; even Kenites enslaving us and Satan arriving and branding us with his mark; and then the cosmic hero, Jesus Christ, arriving at the nick of time to save us. It’s all very entertaining, and can be used by creative minds to spin yarns around the campfire to scare little children. But we will all wake up in our tents the next morning with the sun streaming through the flaps to carry on with our daily lives the best we know how, day after day after day. We work, pay our bills, hang out with our friends and perhaps have some fun. Chop wood, carry water. Simple. The future? It will take care of itself. Our lives only have meaning according to what we think and do here and now. Or so it seems to me. Change your thinking, change your lives and all those around you.

[fatherofaking]

I wasn't criticising, but sometimes the text may appear that way. I was actually responding to your statements:

you said "Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass." Every generation for thousands of years has been saying something to this effect. No reason to believe it now. The flim-flam artists use this a lot.

you said "Knowledge is increasing exponentially." Not any more than we have seen in the past. There have been numerous periods of enlighenment. Somehow religious fundamentalism knocks it back. Right now we are in a technological age. It might be different than the past advances, but it is no more significant. Hopefully, we will continue to advance and build on current knowledge.

you said "This is not something that has ever happened before." I, along with many others disagree. Of course, there is more knowledge worldwide and we will continue to expand on that knowledge. We advance in areas of either need or significant interest.

you said "I do believe that the seal on Daniels prophecy has been broken..." At least you admit it is your belief. I don't see anything that would cause me to have that conclusion.

you said "...Remember that the book of revelation says that there will be people that want to die but are not able to" This has always been true. Nothing different now.

you said "Eternal life is just around the corner folks...." Not likely in our generation. But a few celebreties had their bodies frozen so they could be brought back to life sometime in the future. So, some people think it can happen.

The topic of this thread is New World Order. I agree, there may be a new world order taking place. but this has nothing to do with the bible. The predictions of a "New World Order" are vauge enough that any change in world power can be viewed as scriptural. It seems that every decade has a prediction of the end of the world by every civilization who inhabited Earth. Every generation has people who make a living by making predictions. Some predictors are better than others, but they all make mistakes.


I have posted proof of my allegations Ba2.
Knowledge is increasing at an exponential rate it can be shown mathematically.
I posted links that show it to be true.
Eternal life is also something that will become a reality soon because of the rate of growth of the knowledge base.

The refutations that you give are empty Ba2.
They are simply opinion.

[dodge]

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/13/l_53c0eaf466604d42be525b031135ce8e.jpg

[fatherofaking]

Hi Father of a King. Well, I’m feeling humble today. I had this glimpse of myself as I must sound to others, and I didn’t like it. It was sort of a gestalt, as if I were looking at myself from without. What I saw was someone who appeared to have a closed mind, who wasn’t open to new ideas or possibilities and was talking out of his a$$. It was a shock!

Anyway, we were talking about the New World Order, that idea that there are very powerfully influencial people who control the world behind the scenes. I’m sure that there are things that go on in world governments, in banking institutions, in the world of science and politics that I know nothing about. How can I assume that it isn’t true that there are those who are pulling the strings, with plans that I can’t even imagine? Are these people just extremely wealthy intelligent powerful humans who control the way things are run in the world, or is it something more? Are they good or evil, or something that transcends both? Do they have powers that I can’t imagine, occult or supernatural, that they acquired somehow (perhaps through initiation in secret mystical fraternaties)? Is it even possible for people such as us, who don’t have access to the higher echelons of power, to know what’s really going on?

I have a friend who even suggests that there are beings who manipulate events in order to create conflict and war in order to increase global fear and anxiety because this is what they live on, ingest, need for their survival. How can I know what’s true and what’s not? There are so many conspiracy theories out there, from reptilian shapeshifting aliens to mystic occult secret societies and Kenites. I’m sure that none of them is going to visit me and tell me what’s really going on. If the New World Order is so powerful and secret, it seems to me that they would see to it that information about them is never revealed; and that those who got close to them would be silenced in one way or another. That would include the internet, which is most likely filled with misinformation about who they are just to throw people off.

What do you think?


Very impressive Dodge.
You know the subject well that is clear.
I am wondering now that we have put our little tiff behind us, why it is that you chose to engage in a discussion with me in this subject. You seem to be well informed on the subject, and have formed an opinion based upon that information, so why do it?
Is it to mock other people's conclusions or is there a genuine desire to learn?
You are an intelligent man who certainly understands that this subject has no end.
There are no real answers.
We live in a house of mirrors, nothing but who you are can be be known for certain.
The fact that we can know ourselves is all that we need.
For in us lie the secrets of the universe.

So what is it that you are looking to do Dodge?
As a proclaimed iconoclast are you here to push your religion like most here, or are you do you still have a desire to learn?

I am sure you also know that there are two sides to this like everything else.
There is the internal process and there is the projection of that internal process into what we call reality.
While you champion one through the teachings of Jung, you mock the other as unimportant.
While i understand why you do this i would have to respectfully disagree with your reasoning.
While you have succeeded in learning these things and have found some balance in your life, many people here have not had that benefit.
Everyone is in a different place in their life.
I should not even have to tell you these things Dodge.
If you want to turn everyone into an iconoclast then you are just pushing your religion.
If you are here with a genuine desire to learn then you can be of some benefit to these people by teaching them something.
Again, i should not have to tell you these things.

I am hoping you take my challenge to heart Dodge.
Don't hide behind what you know Dodge, share it.

[ba2]

I have posted proof of my allegations Ba2.
Knowledge is increasing at an exponential rate it can be shown mathematically.
I posted links that show it to be true.
Eternal life is also something that will become a reality soon because of the rate of growth of the knowledge base.

The refutations that you give are empty Ba2.
They are simply opinion.

Mostly I agreed with you. But our reasoning has a different base of belief.

I didn't think links were needed. Ok, I'll give you a few links where I disagree:

you said "Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass." Every generation for thousands of years has been saying something to this effect. No reason to believe it now. The flim-flam artists use this a lot.
A Brief History of the Apocalypse predictions starting at 2800 BC http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

you said "Knowledge is increasing exponentially." I didn’t refute this point. I only suggested that this has always been the case. Nothing different now. Hopefully, religious fundamentalism won't again rise to put us back into the Dark Ages.

you said "This is not something that has ever happened before." Again, I didn’t refute the point that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge being generated. Hopefully this will continue.

you said "I do believe that the seal on Daniels prophecy has been broken..." Daniel made a lot of predictions. Most were very vague which left it open to a wide range of interpretations. Some took a very imaginative explanation. Just like Nostradamus. Following is an interesting article on the Failure of Daniel's Prophecies http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/chris_sandoval/daniel.html#intro

you said "...Remember that the book of revelation says that there will be people that want to die but are not able to" I didn’t disagree with you. I only added that this has been true in the past, is true now, and will probably be true in the future.

you said "Eternal life is just around the corner folks...." This is only your opinion too. No way to prove it until it happens. I happen to disagree with you.

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King -- You ask me why I even want to engage in a dialogue about the supposed “New World Order.” The simple answer is that I’m interested in those who believe in such things, psychologically, more that the conspiracy theory itself; though, like you, I’ve spent decades in the past involved in mysticism and the occult in a significant way. I’ve been a Catholic, a Methoditst, a Bahai, an honorary Jew, a member of several hierarchical fraternaties, and deeply explored the realms of direct experience within occult dimensions…including the so-called “black arts.” I evolved from there into an interest in depth psychology which led me to the works of Carl Jung and the archetypes of the collective unconscious. After literally another decade of exploring Jung’s ideas, I moved on to other ideas and ways of being that I won’t go into here.

Yes, I’ve mocked people in the past; but I explained to you that I’ve taken an honest look at myself and can guarantee you that this will no longer be part of my behavior here in these threads. I honestly do have a genuine desire to learn. I’ve learned a lot from you and Stage about cybernetics, things that I had no clue about before. And I’m interested in the details of your fascination with Kenites, the New World Order, cybernetic/robotic/android research and technology, and look upon it all as grist for my ever grinding mill that only adds to my perceptions and knowledge of humanity. For that, I have to thank you. Please continue with your ideas.

You also asked me if I’m here to “push my religion?” What religion is that, do you think? I don’t have a religion, just a way of being that I’ve adopted, one that has evolved through the decades as I learn more and experience more of life. I wouldn’t even know how to explain to you what it is inside of me that I refer to as “a way of being.” It’s eclectic, something that I’ve built up over the years, adding a brick there, a stone here, some morter, wood and glass; but it all stands on a firm foundation, what I learned from my occult past. I have no interest in anyone adopting my way of being; because it’s my size and fits me well and wouldn’t look good on anyone else.

Does that answer your questions?

[fatherofaking]

"you said "Eternal life is just around the corner folks...." This is only your opinion too. No way to prove it until it happens. I happen to disagree with you.There is absolutely no reason to think this is not going to happen in the next 25yrs.
The brightest minds in the world are saying these things not me.
Just look at the material that i posted.
You can then tell them what you think of their ideas.
Don't bother me with your denial.
I am sure they would say the same thing to you.


you said "Daniels prophecy is clearly coming to pass." Every generation for thousands of years has been saying something to this effect. No reason to believe it now. The flim-flam artists use this a lot.
A Brief History of the Apocalypse predictions starting at 2800 BC
I am quite familiar with the history of end of the world predictions.
Now is different.
I am trying to show you this but you are not seeing it or you just won't accept it.

you said "Knowledge is increasing exponentially." I didn’t refute this point. I only suggested that this has always been the case. Nothing different now. Hopefully, religious fundamentalism won't again rise to put us back into the Dark Ages.You say that knowledge has always grown at an exponential rate.
That can be shown to be untrue with mathematics.
I just said this to you.



you said "This is not something that has ever happened before." Again, I didn’t refute the point that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge being generated. Hopefully this will continue.This is a contradiction.

you said "...Remember that the book of revelation says that there will be people that want to die but are not able to" I didn’t disagree with you. I only added that this has been true in the past, is true now, and will probably be true in the future.What is true?
That people in the past thought that technology was able to allow someone to live forever?


you said "I do believe that the seal on Daniels prophecy has been broken..." Daniel made a lot of predictions. Most were very vague which left it open to a wide range of interpretations. Some took a very imaginative explanation. Just like Nostradamus. Following is an interesting article on the Failure of Daniel's PropheciesI am making reference to the most important verse in the whole prophecy.
Clearly what it says and what is happening are the same.
It may not seem that way to you but i think you are denying the things that i am using to show it.
You cannot just deny my proof, you need to show it to be wrong.
You have not done that in any way.

You cannot deny that because of the exponential increase in knowledge we are going to experience a paradigm shift within our lifetime.
The current thought is around 2029 or sooner.
This is not something i am making up.
I have posted enough material to show that what i say is true.
You can accept or reject it as you wish.

I do not however think it is worth my time to continue with the way this is going.
Dealing with denial is a waste of time for me.

[fatherofaking]

Hi Father of a King -- You ask me why I even want to engage in a dialogue about the supposed “New World Order.” The simple answer is that I’m interested in those who believe in such things, psychologically, more that the conspiracy theory itself; though, like you, I’ve spent decades in the past involved in mysticism and the occult in a significant way. I’ve been a Catholic, a Methoditst, a Bahai, an honorary Jew, a member of several hierarchical fraternaties, and deeply explored the realms of direct experience within occult dimensions…including the so-called “black arts.” I evolved from there into an interest in depth psychology which led me to the works of Carl Jung and the archetypes of the collective unconscious. After literally another decade of exploring Jung’s ideas, I moved on to other ideas and ways of being that I won’t go into here.

Alright Dodge then i will leave it at that.





Yes, I’ve mocked people in the past; but I explained to you that I’ve taken an honest look at myself and can guarantee you that this will no longer be part of my behavior here in these threads. I honestly do have a genuine desire to learn. I’ve learned a lot from you and Stage about cybernetics, things that I had no clue about before. And I’m interested in the details of your fascination with Kenites, the New World Order, cybernetic/robotic/android research and technology, and look upon it all as grist for my ever grinding mill that only adds to my perceptions and knowledge of humanity. For that, I have to thank you. Please continue with your ideas.
I accept what you are saying and will continue with my ideas.
I do however have a request.
It is what i just challenged you to do, share what you know on these ideas.
If i become grist for your mill without any in return i could easily get weary of your questions.
You see, i know your questions are designed to get people to confront their own conclusions, which is fine, i have no problem with you doing that but share some of what you know once in while.


You also asked me if I’m here to “push my religion?” What religion is that, do you think? I don’t have a religion, just a way of being that I’ve adopted, one that has evolved through the decades as I learn more and experience more of life. I wouldn’t even know how to explain to you what it is inside of me that I refer to as “a way of being.” It’s eclectic, something that I’ve built up over the years, adding a brick there, a stone here, some morter, wood and glass; but it all stands on a firm foundation, what I learned from my occult past. I have no interest in anyone adopting my way of being; because it’s my size and fits me well and wouldn’t look good on anyone else.

Does that answer your questions?i was referring to your iconoclast attitude.
Since you have assured me that you have repented of such things, then yes it answers my question.



Cool picture by the way.

[dodge]

Father of a King -- For those of us unfamiliar with the prophecies of Daniel, like myself, could you explain to me what convinced you that they are speaking about the current world situation? And how is this related to a "New World Order?" If you don't mind, please use your own words instead of posting links and quotes. I find that a bit overwhelming and hard to respond to. Thanks.

[ba2]

There is absolutely no reason to think this is not going to happen in the next 25yrs...

...Dealing with denial is a waste of time for me.

Dealing with denial? This prediction is no better than the thousands of others.

Anyone can make a prediction which turns out to be true. Back in the 1950’s, it was predicted that the Soviet Union would eventually collapse. It did. Were these people prophets? Of course not. Daniel predicted that the temple would be destroyed. Big deal, up to that time every culture eventually was defeated and their gods were destroyed with them. The temple was destroyed twice. Now it happens to be an Islamic holy place. Some would say this is the rebuilt temple. But, this was not a difficult prediction, eventually, all temples collapse and sometimes they are rebuilt. This prediction is so vague that another 1,000 years can go by and the ministers would simply say: “It will happen in God’s time.”

Many now are predicting that a great power will rise in the east and become the big power in the world. Possible taking down our dear USA. All powers had humble beginnings and historically, they all collapse. I hate to think about this, but it is very likely true.

You said: “There is absolutely no reason to think this is not going to happen in the next 25yrs.” I would say, there is absolutely no reason to believe this nonsense. Why don’t I consider these new end of times predictions to be accurate? Simple, I have been hearing about them for my entire life, as has been everyone else on earth since the beginning of time. The site I listed has hundreds, maybe thousands of them from 2800BC to the present. http://www.abhota.info/end6.htm Many of them are based on some so called scriptural truth. His last line tells it all: “Guess what, folks!! We're still here!!”

As far as human knowledge goes. There has for thousands of years been a growth in knowledge. Generally, each generation teaches the new and then adds to the knowledge base. As population increases, so does the human knowledge base. From time to time, the knowledge base slipped backwards, like in the Dark Ages where everything believed had to be substantiated in the bible. We had a period of time during the Renaissance where the scientific and cultural increases were incredibly fast paced and we have had times where it slowed down. This is a no-brainer. Of course the knowledge base is growing faster and faster, we have more and more people. There is no point to your belief that there is something supernatural going on.

As far as death and wanting to die. I thought I made it clear. Throughout history, people were often kept alive against their will. The Romans were very good at that, as were many other cultures that used torture to control the masses or to extract confessions. It even happens today in some of our geriatric homes. I never suggested that they were immortal.

[jargon631]

This is exactly what all these “end of times” conspiracies are all about. It is a way to extract money from the gullible. At the same time I do believe that many of these “ministers” are really sincere. They have been taken in by their teachers, who were taken in by their teachers, and so on.

There have been numerous “end of time” predictions every generation throughout written history. None of them ever came to pass. Many of them were calculated by reading the ancient texts, such as the bible; still, none of them ever came to pass. My advice to everyone, don’t believe anyone who makes an end of time prediction. You have nothing to gain, even if they actually were right. But when you hear someone talking about the impending end of time, hang on to your wallet.


the sda based an entire religion on william miller's 1844 end of time prophecy...they continued even after he had to come up with a convenient excuse as to why it never happened...the crux of the sda biscuit(thanx frank zappa) is nothing BUT prophecy...they have built an entire ministry on the gullibility of people who dont seem to remember that the sda hasnt made a correct prophecy yet...sad, but true...fd

[jargon631]

I don’t have a religion, just a way of being that I’ve adopted, one that has evolved through the decades as I learn more and experience more of life. I wouldn’t even know how to explain to you what it is inside of me that I refer to as “a way of being.” It’s eclectic, something that I’ve built up over the years, adding a brick there, a stone here, some morter, wood and glass; I have no interest in anyone adopting my way of being; because it’s my size and fits me well and wouldn’t look good on anyone else.


that is similar to what i have said many, many times...fd

[fatherofaking]

Dealing with denial? This prediction is no better than the thousands of others.

Anyone can make a prediction which turns out to be true. Back in the 1950’s, it was predicted that the Soviet Union would eventually collapse. It did. Were these people prophets? Of course not. Daniel predicted that the temple would be destroyed. Big deal, up to that time every culture eventually was defeated and their gods were destroyed with them. The temple was destroyed twice. Now it happens to be an Islamic holy place. Some would say this is the rebuilt temple. But, this was not a difficult prediction, eventually, all temples collapse and sometimes they are rebuilt. This prediction is so vague that another 1,000 years can go by and the ministers would simply say: “It will happen in God’s time.”

Many now are predicting that a great power will rise in the east and become the big power in the world. Possible taking down our dear USA. All powers had humble beginnings and historically, they all collapse. I hate to think about this, but it is very likely true.

You said: “There is absolutely no reason to think this is not going to happen in the next 25yrs.” I would say, there is absolutely no reason to believe this nonsense. Why don’t I consider these new end of times predictions to be accurate? Simple, I have been hearing about them for my entire life, as has been everyone else on earth since the beginning of time. The site I listed has hundreds, maybe thousands of them from 2800BC to the present. http://www.abhota.info/end6.htm Many of them are based on some so called scriptural truth. His last line tells it all: “Guess what, folks!! We're still here!!”

As far as human knowledge goes. There has for thousands of years been a growth in knowledge. Generally, each generation teaches the new and then adds to the knowledge base. As population increases, so does the human knowledge base. From time to time, the knowledge base slipped backwards, like in the Dark Ages where everything believed had to be substantiated in the bible. We had a period of time during the Renaissance where the scientific and cultural increases were incredibly fast paced and we have had times where it slowed down. This is a no-brainer. Of course the knowledge base is growing faster and faster, we have more and more people. There is no point to your belief that there is something supernatural going on.

As far as death and wanting to die. I thought I made it clear. Throughout history, people were often kept alive against their will. The Romans were very good at that, as were many other cultures that used torture to control the masses or to extract confessions. It even happens today in some of our geriatric homes. I never suggested that they were immortal.


okay Ba2,
As far as i can tell your arguments are still nothing but opinion, you have backed up nothing.
i told you that i could back up my assertions with mathematics and i guess that is not good enough for you.
You never even challenged it.
So be it.

I am not making any predictions.
Yes i am making an inference that the words in the book of Daniel fit into all of this.
The reason is because the evidence that i have points to a paradigm shift soon.
No one really knows what that means but the change will be quick and all pervasive, nothing will be the same.
It certainly means that life as we know it will never be the same.
Now you decide for yourself what to do with that.


I am no longer going to do this with you unless you are able to back up the things you say with evidence and not opinion.
It is a waste of time for me Ba2.
I do not see it as being productive.

[jargon631]

For the record, I don't believe androids are mingling with humans, or that that's even possible at this time in history ... but the confidence in what scientists believe they can accomplish was way beyond what I would have ever imagined.


not mixing with humans???...didnt u ever watch "dragnet"?...theres no way that jack webb was human...not with that robotic delivery...what about al gore??...ill bet if you stand reeaall close and are reeaall quiet you can hear the whirring of his tiny gears...lol...fd

[ba2]

okay Ba2,
As far as i can tell your arguments are still nothing but opinion, you have backed up nothing.
i told you that i could back up my assertions with mathematics and i guess that is not good enough for you.
You never even challenged it.
So be it.

I am not making any predictions.
Yes i am making an inference that the words in the book of Daniel fit into all of this.
The reason is because the evidence that i have points to a paradigm shift soon.
No one really knows what that means but the change will be quick and all pervasive, nothing will be the same.
It certainly means that life as we know it will never be the same.
Now you decide for yourself what to do with that.


I am no longer going to do this with you unless you are able to back up the things you say with evidence and not opinion.
It is a waste of time for me Ba2.
I do not see it as being productive.

But how have you backed up anything you said? You are making a prediction that Daniel's prophies are going to come true within the next 25 years. I gave you a site listing the thousand or so predictions about the end of times. They all had what they considered solid proof but none came true yet. Why should I believe another one.

I gave you another site which explained the failngs of Daniel's prophies.

Dodge asked a good question, "For those of us unfamiliar with the prophecies of Daniel, like myself, could you explain to me what convinced you that they are speaking about the current world situation?"

[dobman53]

Dodge:

My telling of programing computers was done for my own personal benefit in realationship to one of my various hobbies the graph's were in design to enhance my breeding of Pigeons. Strange but true!!

When I spoke of DNA based computer chips I was not talking about how they might enhance robots, though I'm sure they very well could. But My thoughts were more in line with a senario of a Bill Gates like perspective. By that I'm meaning who should ever first come to attaining such computer capacity will finacially prosper beyond anyones wildest imagination.

Thusly I then mentioned the ruling of the world as then all aspects of new computer technology would be prosperous to this single idividual.

Ba2:

I'm fully aware that for countless centries men have predicted doom. And being one such as myself who has spent conciderable time condomplating such realities you might come to find I'm pretty much up to speed with all the various accounts. Should we look back in time forinstance lets then examine what Jargon 631 brought up from 1844

People in the past reading of famines. and earth quakes, and a host of other topics mentioned in these prophesies were often quick to asssume that all such prophesies were forfilled. Though their actuall then knowledge as well as thoughs of many others of like persuation were in essance totally lacking in them not grasping the entire content from which these prophesies are based.

Here me even mentioning such things can most probably draw suspicions, by ones then thinking,, Well just who in the heck do I think I am then?? Well such suspicions by me must be taken for granted, though I'll tell you I didn't just stumble across such notions from just laying there in the bed.

Such Prophesies first need to be in workings with the entire content of the Bible. What a lot of these past men of the Bible missed were a many numbered things. To many for me to try and list but I'll give one of the more glaring mistakes. One in particular that all these past dooms dayers never fully understood was when Christ's cursed the fig tree. Most Biblical scholars where upon reading this statement give little thought to it, and if they do they wind up join it into another Biblical saying which it's not at all related to.

This prophesy has two related points of interest. First let me add before going any deeper the fig tree is a representation of Isreal. The first point about this curse is Christ was letting it be known that Isreal would soon be destroyed and no more be a nation. The second point deals with when seeing the fig tree bloom (the restablishment of Isreal). Many back in history thought well fig tree's bloom every year, and they further didn't realise of this cursing meaning Isreal's destruction either. What I'm getting at they all in reality knew nothing at all about this whole senario, as from before all their knowledge having been told all kinds of different things concerning this cursing.

This blooming of the fig tree is stated that when the fig tree blooms that generation will not pass before the end times come. It also says this nation (Isreal) will be formed in one day. In 1948 the nation of Isreal was formed in one day during a session at the then brand new UN. Soon many Biblical scholars were then able to at last see what they thought was the complete picture of these prophesies. Them thinking a generation from Biblical times as usually 40 years so such people quickly then marked the year 1988 as to then be the end.

Yet that day came and went but no end times did happen.

What the problem was with these earlier date setters was that Isreal was not yet fully complete as they didn't hold Jerusalem under their controll untill 1967. But here's another little twist all generations in the Bible were not 40 years.

First I'm here to admit I no longer think of myself as a date setter, though in times past that wasn't the case. But if we were to take all the different amounts of time mentioned in the Bible as generations. Add them all up and divide them accordingly we arrive at the number 51. should we then add that to 1967 we come up with 2019.

Let me only add this once again I'm in no way saying that I as a Biblically minded man should then put my stamp of approvall on this date. But I will say chances are we each as individuals might very well be a wittness to these events. This date mind you is just an educated guess, nothing more, nothing less.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

Ba2:

About Daniels prophesies!!

Let me add this King Nebuchnezzar was the then first king who ruled over all of the then known world. He was having this dream and of his vision over and over. This dream was causing him much distress. So he called in all his priests to tell him of his vision, and just what it did mean. But to challenge his priest he refised to tell them his dream. But then told them they must tell him his dream, and tell him what it ment. Well you can imagine the problems these priests were up against. Well wouldn't you know it Daniel stepped forth told the king his dream, and then told him what it ment. After hearing Daniel tell him his dream exactly, and then tell him what it ment. Kebuchnezzer then said Daniel Your God is above all others, and then had the other priest all killed.

As amatter of fact Nebuchnezzer wrote a chapter in Daniels Book.

Though from before Nebuchnezzer tuneed his back against God. So God then to show the King who's really boss made Nebuchnezzer graze grass like an ox for 7 years, His patrients thought the King had lost is mind. But one word from his mouth and they all would have all been killed imediately. So they did their best at never upsetting King Nebuchnezzer whether he grazed or not!! After that the king then said you God are now my God. (here I'm using mostly my own words, they mimic the facts but there all none the less true)

As facts are far stranger than fiction could ever be.

Dob!!

[dodge]

Dob, do you really think that it is “fact” that a man grazed on grass for seven years like an ox? Why is it that you believe this biblical story is true, that it actually happened? Just because it’s in the Bible? Do you believe every story that’s in the Bible to be true and factual?

[terluvire]

Dob, do you really think that it is “fact” that a man grazed on grass for seven years like an ox? Why is it that you believe this biblical story is true, that it actually happened? Just because it’s in the Bible? Do you believe every story that’s in the Bible to be true and factual?

It is believed by many that King Nebuchadnezzar suffered from Lycantrophy

[dodge]

King Nebuchadnezzar thought he was a wolf? Do wolves graze on grass?

[fatherofaking]

But how have you backed up anything you said? You are making a prediction that Daniel's prophies are going to come true within the next 25 years. I gave you a site listing the thousand or so predictions about the end of times. They all had what they considered solid proof but none came true yet. Why should I believe another one.

I gave you another site which explained the failngs of Daniel's prophies.

Dodge asked a good question, "For those of us unfamiliar with the prophecies of Daniel, like myself, could you explain to me what convinced you that they are speaking about the current world situation?"

First of all i do not believe that you know nothing of Daniels prophecies Dodge. you claim to have a pretty good Christian background.
Second, i can see that you Ba2 do not have a very healthy respect for the Bible.
Despite what any "scholar" may say about the book of Daniel the Bible plays a significant role in what is happening in the world today.
Don't fool yourself into thinking because you are certain that the Bible is just an insignificant book it has no influence in the world we live in, you would be making a big mistake.
Just from that perspective the two of you should respect what has been said about that book by those who believe it is what it says it is.
More importantly there is a much deeper understanding of the contents of this book that is known by those who are the most influential in this world.

You all seem to forget that there are to sides to everything.
There is the internal and that which is projected into the physical, what we call reality.
It is the same with the message of the Bible there is Kabbalah and then there is the historical Christ.
Both are necessary.

You can do what you want with this stuff but I think the message of the Bible should be given much more importance than the two of you give to it.

Using the objective tools of science, Stan Tenen, research director of the Meru Foundation, has studied the mathematical structure underlying the sequence of letters in the Hebrew text of Genesis. His research has shown that the geometric patterns fundamental to modern physics were available to us long before physics per se was considered an independent science.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8277077378117840783&hl=en
Now I will add what i think is only part of the message of the Bible and how i think Daniel fits in.
I think that ever since the time of Cain there have been two camps so to speak.
The builders and those who have no home, like Abraham.
The builders rely on their tools and the knowledge they had to use them, Abraham relied on the earth and all it's abundance to provide for him and his family.
It is not hard to see who is in control at the moment.
It is certainly not the children of Abraham.

With the understanding i have of the book of Daniel i would say that the exponential increase in knowledge and the moving to and fro are the work of the builders.
It seems to be a description of the increase of technology, knowledge being that which drives the to and fro.
Knowing what i know of how technology is bringing us closer to a paradigm shift, I am thinking that there is a real possibility that this time is more unique than any other.

There is messiah fever everywhere on the globe.
This is not a western phenomenon.
People can see the increase in suffering.
It is not hidden any more.
That which has been hidden is being revealed.

The builders have been able to do what they have done because of the knowledge they have.
They are the ones that taught in the mystery schools and are now the ones in the secret societies.
They are not the same people but the agenda has never changed.
It is an amazing story that takes the length of the life of the human race to tell.
God has managed to keep the truth alive through the builders while it was slowly lost in Christianity.
One is not good and the other evil (occult) they are two sides of the same thing.

I know that i probably left a million holes and just raised more questions, as well as objections.
All i ask is that you please be respectful when you reply.
I am more than willing to listen to those that are interested in learning.

You may think i do this because i am a know it all or i am trying to take someone away from their beliefs or for any other nefarious reason but you are wrong.
This is not easy to put ones self out here like this for others to do what they like with it.
People can be very hurtful i am afraid.
So i do not expect you to agree with what i have written but i would hope that we could discuss our disagreements respectfully.

[dodge]

Hello, Father of a King. After reading your last post, I still don’t understand why you believe that the prophesies of Daniel are talking about the present time. You keep talking about an “exponential increase in knowledge” and a “paradigm shift,” but how is this related to Daniel’s prophesies? If you gave me chapter and verse that demonstrates what you’re talking about, then I would gladly read it in order to attempt an understanding of your point of view, and how you interpret verse.

You further stated that there is “messiah fever everywhere on the globe.” I was unaware of this. Could you give me some examples? Is there indeed an “increase in suffering?” What can you point to in order to verify your contention? Are you saying that there is more suffering now than there has been in the past? How would you prove this? I don’t know what you mean by “that which has been hidden is revealed.” Could you elaborate? If it is revealed, what is it?

You go on about the “builders,” who you say “taught in the mystery schools and are now the ones in the secret societies.” How do you know this? What are your sources? Have you ever met any of these “builders?” If not, what is your faith in them based on? What “mystery schools” are you referring to? How did you find out about them?

I’m only asking these questions because I’m trying to understand what you base your belief on. If you have verifiable direct knowledge of these things, I would like to know. Otherwise, it would be a matter of faith, belief without proof.

Also, how is this all related to the "New World Order?"

[dobman53]

Dodge I've got suspicion's that your not quite the athiest as you would have us believe.

Just what battles you might be engaged in are only something you can win from within.

Don't always be so quick to vent against us. Were not the demonds you envision us to be.

We can only share from our own convictions. we have no magic wonds to then heal all wounds. If we did I'd be the first to wave it for you. But allas I haven't one.

Dob!!

[terluvire]

If you do a little research Dodge, Lycantrophy, the patient doesn't always think they're a wolf...they can imagine themselves to be any kind of wild animal. Go check it out yourself.

[dodge]

Hi Terluvire. Let me get this straight. This god of yours, because King Nebuchadnezzar “turned his back on him,” made him think he was an animal and ended up grazing on grass for seven years. What a horrible thing to do to someone. How cruel! Whatever happend to free will?

[dodge]

Hi Dob. What leads you to believe that I’m engaged in any battles? You’re the one who comes here every day weilding your sword of righeousness against all those who you perceive to be “detractors.” You vent against them hour by hour here on these threads. The things that you’re saying about me are in reality your own reflection. Not surprising, to be unaware that what you see in others is actually your own shadow. If you find a magic wand, I would suggest you use it on yourself.

[fatherofaking]

Hello, Father of a King. After reading your last post, I still don’t understand why you believe that the prophesies of Daniel are talking about the present time. You keep talking about an “exponential increase in knowledge” and a “paradigm shift,” but how is this related to Daniel’s prophesies? If you gave me chapter and verse that demonstrates what you’re talking about, then I would gladly read it in order to attempt an understanding of your point of view, and how you interpret verse.

You further stated that there is “messiah fever everywhere on the globe.” I was unaware of this. Could you give me some examples? Is there indeed an “increase in suffering?” What can you point to in order to verify your contention? Are you saying that there is more suffering now than there has been in the past? How would you prove this? I don’t know what you mean by “that which has been hidden is revealed.” Could you elaborate? If it is revealed, what is it?

You go on about the “builders,” who you say “taught in the mystery schools and are now the ones in the secret societies.” How do you know this? What are your sources? Have you ever met any of these “builders?” If not, what is your faith in them based on? What “mystery schools” are you referring to? How did you find out about them?

I’m only asking these questions because I’m trying to understand what you base your belief on. If you have verifiable direct knowledge of these things, I would like to know. Otherwise, it would be a matter of faith, belief without proof.

Also, how is this all related to the "New World Order?"



You are asking a lot of questions Dodge.
I told you i might have a problem with this and why.
First of all the shear magnitude of the information you are looking for from me is enormous.
Second, you tell us in one post about all of the experience you have had and all of the knowledge you gained and then you ask me questions about things that should be obvious to you.
You know full well about the builders, the mystery schools, the secret societies and their influence on the world.
So you are either playing games or lying or both.
Maybe their is a third?
Do you want names?
Do you think i have direct contact with these people?
What are your motivations?

Zarquon is a legendary prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet). He is worshiped by a small group visiting The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, and is old, bearded, robed, wreathed in light, has starry eyes and a crown of gold. His name is frequently invoked as a curse, specifically a substitute for "God", such as "Holy Zarquon's singing fish" and "for zark's sake."
It is only on our visit to Milliways that Zarquon does indeed appear - his overdue second coming - moments before the Universe ends. The host Max claims that he had done the show "over five hundred times" and "nothing like this had ever happened before".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_G uide_to_the_Galaxy#Zarquon
Cool name.

[ba2]

Ba2:

About Daniels prophesies!!

Let me add this King Nebuchnezzar was the then first king who ruled over all of the then known world. He was having this dream and of his vision over and over. This dream was causing him much distress. So he called in all his priests to tell him of his vision, and just what it did mean. But to challenge his priest he refised to tell them his dream. But then told them they must tell him his dream, and tell him what it ment. Well you can imagine the problems these priests were up against. Well wouldn't you know it Daniel stepped forth told the king his dream, and then told him what it ment. After hearing Daniel tell him his dream exactly, and then tell him what it ment. Kebuchnezzer then said Daniel Your God is above all others, and then had the other priest all killed.

As amatter of fact Nebuchnezzer wrote a chapter in Daniels Book.

Though from before Nebuchnezzer tuneed his back against God. So God then to show the King who's really boss made Nebuchnezzer graze grass like an ox for 7 years, His patrients thought the King had lost is mind. But one word from his mouth and they all would have all been killed imediately. So they did their best at never upsetting King Nebuchnezzer whether he grazed or not!! After that the king then said you God are now my God. (here I'm using mostly my own words, they mimic the facts but there all none the less true)

As facts are far stranger than fiction could ever be.

Dob!!
Yes, I know the story.
You didn't mention that Daniel was scheduled to be executed. Because the priests could not come up with an interpretation, Daniel was given an opportunity. This was a single chance to save his skin. Fortunately, he came up with an answer the king liked. But that is besides the point. The gold and iron and wooden statue is so vague, you can pick many times and places in history where you could make a connection.

[ba2]

FOF
I am interested in your response to Dodge. He makes very good points in questioning how you came to the conclusion regarding the connections. I do believe you are sincere but like dodge, I am having trouble understanding your connection. It is a little late and I have to run, but I will try to respectfully address your posts tomorrow.

[dodge]

Howdy, Father of a King. Damn, it’s hard to get an answer from you. All I want to know is why you believe that the prophecies of Daniel have to do with what’s happening in the world today. What is it in the actual verses that convinced you?

[dobman53]

Ba2:

Your analisis in drawing conclusion of Daniel being fortunate in coming up with an answer that King Nebuchnezzer liked seems disigenuois to say the least. During his rein lived men who were masters of the arts when it came to having the abilities of firing decoratively glazed bricks. When ever any persons approuched Babylon the magnificience of such work left all in awe. I believe in Germany they have on exibition one of these very gates they managed to dig up from antiquities. Those bricks still glisten to this day with all the glory of Nebuchnezzers kingdom.

So to assume this man Nebuchnezzer was so easy of man to please, by stating Daniel just happened to say something he liked is quite a stretch to say the least. And I find that by saying that you've opened an avenue towards your intermost self. In saying this I'm not anywheres near as passing any judgements, simply saying what's come to my attension.

Just the same we each do have our paticular ways in working thing out to our own personal satisfation. Now I can fully understand at the same time where many might have questions in reguards to matter of faith as well in stating known facts. And here again our own commitments and thoughts are surely to differ amongst all individuals. As I myself did question a hole host of such situations in my past. Some years ago I took a deeper step than I ever had before, though even from those yet earlier times I had always felt I new perhaps more than most. though soon I became aware that I didn't know half of what I had previously thought.

So here we are now discussing what the future might hold, and just what might lay ahead. I must say for what ever it's worth this little group of us has approuched this subject from each ones own point of view. As I've enjoyed it quite well.

ba2 I've seen your posts every now and again. Before all this, myself, FOAK, and Dodge have spent way to much time trading insults. FOAK and I have settled down for the most part, But me and Dodge still go round and round as if there were no tommorow.

Just the same all is well
or pretty close to it!!

Dob!!

[dodge]

Hi Dobman53. Since this is a thread about the so-called "New World Order," or "One World Order," why don't you chime in with your views? Since you're a student of Shepherds Chapel, I take it you believe that it is the Kenites, that mysterious race of beings who you believe are descended from a sexual liason between Satan and Eve, that are behind the scenes enslaving humanity in order to prepare the stage for the Antichrist. From what I understand, you believe that the United Nations is controlled by these Kenites who are working to use this organization to create their One World Government along with the World Council of Churches, also under the control of these evil Kenites. What about the worlds' media, is it controlled by these Kenites; the banking system and the educational systems also? Isn't this what you ShepChaps call the "Four Hidden Dynasties?"

For you followers of Arnold Murray, isn't it these Kenites, Sons of Satan, who are pulling the strings behind the scenes on the world stage and who are the engineers of a One World Order?

If I'm wrong in any of this, please correct me. I want to know who it is that you think is manipulating events. What are your thoughts?

[ba2]

Dob, I really don’t mean to insult and I truly apologize for giving that impression. In person, it is easier to read a person’s emotions when a somewhat heated debate is going on. We learn by questioning each other’s beliefs and when we hit at a core belief, anger might result. I no longer get angry in these discussions, but I do hit at many core beliefs. Sometimes I say things so we can think. Henry Ford said it well, “Thinking is one of the hardest work there is, which is why so few people engage in it.” My favorite motto is from the Moravian church, “Unity in essentials, Liberty in non-essentials, but in all things Love.” Very few things in scripture are essential but I find that the fundamentalists, like the Pharisees, take everything too legalistically.

We probably are coming from a very different belief structure concerning the literal accuracy of scripture. I am a Christian but I do not believe the OT was ever meant to be taken as literally accurate. There is some history, but it is not a history book. There is some science, but it is not a science book. It is a book telling a story through the use of metaphors, similes, parables and allegories. There is an important message in the stories. This is exactly how ancient non-writing cultures passed on their culture. It was told for many generations before it was finally written down. And since it was written down, it has gone through some corrupting changes, some accidental, some intentional. This is my belief.

Yes, the artistic and building skills found in Babylon must have been magnificent. The hanging gardens are still talked about thousands of years after they were destroyed.

King Nebuchadnezzar had to be a little crazy, expecting his priests to interpret a dream that he didn’t even tell them about. I don’t think Daniel accidently came up with an answer. He was a brilliant man and might have been able to make a good educated guess as to what was on the King’s mind. Do a Google and have a look at some of the Derren Brown (the British psychological illusionist) videos. Someone with his skills could have done the same thing with old King Neb.

Back to the point, Daniel’s prophesies were so vague that we could come up with connections to just about every generation. Why connect it with today? Even if true, what would be the point?

[truth_child]

the new world order is alive today more than ever. and it is corrupting makind with sin . we need to get back to JESUS real quick

[terluvire]

Hi Terluvire. Let me get this straight. This god of yours, because King Nebuchadnezzar “turned his back on him,” made him think he was an animal and ended up grazing on grass for seven years. What a horrible thing to do to someone. How cruel! Whatever happend to free will?

King Nebuchadnezzar's pride was his downfall, just as it was satan's.

What you fail to realize Dodge, it that God is more concerned with our souls than our flesh. The flesh dies regardless how one lives. It is the soul which returns to God. Our lives in the flesh are temporal, but our lives in our spiritual bodies can be eternal. God is much more concerned with the bigger picture, than just the short time we spend in the flesh.

When God corrects one of his children, it is done out of love for he doesn't want to see his children perish, meaning death of the soul.

King Nebuchadnezzar's heart did turn to God after his ordeal and he admitted there was one true God.

Any parent that loves their child will correct them.

[fatherofaking]

Daniel 12 (King James Version)


4. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This is the verse i am connecting to the current exponential growth of knowledge and the coming paradigm shift.

The reason i make this connection is because i believe that part of the message of the Bible tells of a time like this.
You can accept that or reject it, however you like.
I showed you why i accept the integrity of the Bible and it's message.
Since the two of you do not see the Bible the same way as i, then i can understand why you would question what i am saying.
I think that is the issue here.
You simply do not take the Bible seriously.

The message is clear that a time will come that is unprecedented in scope and even understanding for most.
Humanity will either change or perish from the face of the earth.

The exponential growth in knowledge will bring a paradigm shift.
Humanity will not be the same ever again, soon.
It won't be noticed right away but it will be felt more and more until there is a shift in our way of thinking.
You can interpret that any way you like.
I think i have good reason to believe that we are seeing the message of the Bible played out before our eyes.
The stage is set in every arena for it to happen.
We are hearing it from our own politicians but no one is listening.
The global elite are trying to set up a world order in which they have total control over humanity.
They will continue to create chaos around the world until we beg for a messiah.
They will then introduce him through the use of the U. N.
The United Nations will hand this man the power to rule the world for a time.
We may see a period of peace during this time.
It will be short lived.

It is all necessary.
We have created this for ourselves.
We will now have to come face to face with who we are.
Not an easy thing to do.
My worst nightmare comes to mind.

This is the crises that i think will lift humanity to a new level of understanding and consciousness.
Jesus is said to return but he will have a new name.

[truth_child]

i beleive tha nebuchadnezer relly got back to GOD when he repented

[fatherofaking]

There is an underlying pattern in everything, including the Bible.



The Ultimate Paradigm Shift

In the words of physicist Paul Davies in his book The Cosmic Blueprint (1988):
There is no detailed blueprint, only a set of laws with an inbuilt facility for making interesting things happen. The universe is free to create itself as it goes along. The general pattern of development is "predestined", but the details are not. Thus, the existence of intelligent life at some stage is inevitable; it is, so to speak, written into the laws of nature. But man as such is far from preordained.
http://www.fractalwisdom.com/FractalWisdom/index.html



The Bible is no ordinary book.

Using the objective tools of science, Stan Tenen, research director of the Meru Foundation, has studied the mathematical structure underlying the sequence of letters in the Hebrew text of Genesis.The video is only 4min. long.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8277077378117840783&hl=en



The Ark of the Covenant is a Golden Rectangle



In Exodus 25:10, God commands Moses to build the Ark of the Covenant, in which to hold His Covenant with the Israelites, the Ten Commandments, saying,
"Have them make a chest of acacia wood-
two and a half cubits long,
a cubit and a half wide,
and a cubit and a half high."
Noah's Ark uses a Golden Rectangle

In Genesis 6:15, God commands Noah to build an ark saying,
"And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits."
Thus the end of the ark, at 50 by 30 cubits, is also in the ratio of 5 to 3, or 1.666..., again a close approximation of phi not visibly different to the naked eye. Noah's ark was built in the same proportion as ten arks of the covenant placed side by side.



The Number 666 is related to Phi



Revelation 13:18 says the following: "This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is a man's number. His number is 666."
This beast, regarded by some as the Anti-Christ described by John, is thus related to the number 666, one of the greatest mysteries of the Bible.


The colors of the Tabernacle are based on a phi relationship

The PhiBar (http://goldennumber.net/color.htm) program produces the colors that the Bible says God gave to Moses for the construction of the Tabernacle.
As it says in Exodus 26:1, "Make the tabernacle with ten curtains of finely twisted linen and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, with cherubim worked into them by a skilled craftsman."



http://goldennumber.net/bible.htm

[ba2]

Daniel 12 (King James Version)


4. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This is the verse i am connecting to the current exponential growth of knowledge and the coming paradigm shift.

The reason i make this connection is because i believe that part of the message of the Bible tells of a time like this.
You can accept that or reject it, however you like.
I showed you why i accept the integrity of the Bible and it's message.
Since the two of you do not see the Bible the same way as i, then i can understand why you would question what i am saying.
I think that is the issue here.
You simply do not take the Bible seriously.

The message is clear that a time will come that is unprecedented in scope and even understanding for most.
Humanity will either change or perish from the face of the earth.

The exponential growth in knowledge will bring a paradigm shift.
Humanity will not be the same ever again, soon.
It won't be noticed right away but it will be felt more and more until there is a shift in our way of thinking.
You can interpret that any way you like.
I think i have good reason to believe that we are seeing the message of the Bible played out before our eyes.
The stage is set in every arena for it to happen.
We are hearing it from our own politicians but no one is listening.
The global elite are trying to set up a world order in which they have total control over humanity.
They will continue to create chaos around the world until we beg for a messiah.
They will then introduce him through the use of the U. N.
The United Nations will hand this man the power to rule the world for a time.
We may see a period of peace during this time.
It will be short lived.

It is all necessary.
We have created this for ourselves.
We will now have to come face to face with who we are.
Not an easy thing to do.
My worst nightmare comes to mind.

This is the crises that i think will lift humanity to a new level of understanding and consciousness.
Jesus is said to return but he will have a new name.

You quoted Daniel, "4. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
This is an extremely vague prediction. With the exception of a few points in history, knowledge has always been increasing. They increased faster in some periods of time and in some cultures and we are currently in a growth period. Hopefully this will continue.

I take the bible serious, but not as literal as you or many others. I’m amazed at the lengths people can twist scripture to their advantage. You can take any cryptic oracle from an Old Testament prophet and use it to vindicate a completely unrelated topic. Every generation since the begining of time had it's proof that the end was near. It is no different now.

[fatherofaking]

With the exception of a few points in history, knowledge has always been increasing. They increased faster in some periods of time and in some cultures and we are currently in a growth period. Hopefully this will continue.

please show me when in history there has been this level of growth in knowledge.
It is not possible.
Exponential growth does not mean just any growth.
this borders on the level of the infinite.
As the rate of growth continues to double, the time it takes to learn something will lessen at the same rate as well.

Let me give you an example of exponential growth.
If you start with a penny and double the amount of money you save everyday for one month, you will have saved nearly 11,000 dollars.
You can see how quickly you would no longer be able to store the money you saved.
http://numbersandyou.ispeedway.com/default.asp?S=E3&Document=PowerPenny&NID=1377733

This is what is happening with technology.
People that think it is going to take decades to accomplish these things i am talking about are not taking this into account.
Even scientists are making this mistake when predicting when we can do something like recreate a human brain with carbon nanotubes.
When change reaches the level of the infinite it will be near impossible for us to even grasp it.

You see ba2, i am not in agreement with you that this is just the same as any other time in history.
So if you don't mind i would like to see more evidence of your theory.
Your skepticism seems to be based more on your disdain for fundamentalists rather than fact.

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. Thanks for responding to my question, “What convinced you that Daniel’s prophesies were talking about the present time?”

I really don’t see how you can say that Daniel 12:4 was talking about the early 21st century. “”Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” That’s it? And from these words you’re telling us that Daniel was speaking of the current time here? It seems to me that you’re reading way too much into a few words, and projecting the rest based on your particular belief. This is exactly what the Shepherds Chapel people do, and so many other sects and branches of Christianity. You might as well look at an inkblot and tell me the future of mankind, or a crystal ball, or tarot cards, or throw the I Ching.

By saying this, I’m not attempting to demean you in any way, Father of a King. I hear what you say, look at what evidence you show me, and am amazed that you read so much into so little. I’m offering you my opinion, that’s all it is. I can’t agree with what you’ve come up with because it offends my sensibilities, the way you twist and interpret vague, unspecific verses in the Bible to mean what you want them to mean.

You bring up this “paradigm shift” that you believe is coming in almost every post you write. What does that mean to you? Is it some sort of electromagnetic pulse that will sweep across the planet that will change the very nature of our brains? Perhaps it will be carried along with the solar winds from the center of the sun, a wave of energy that will rearrange the nature of reality and cause us to see and think in a radically different manner. That reminds me of 2001: A Space Oddessy, where aliens placed technology in the form of large black rectangular slabs that altered the way that humans percieved and thought, resulting in quantum leaps in evolution periodically in a pre-arranged time scale.

You go on as if you were a prophet yourself, “Humanity will not be the same ever again, soon. It won’t be noticed right away but it will be felt more and more until there is a shift in our way of thinking.” Then you once again tell us that this is all contained in messages in the Bible. Have you considered that these “messages” just might only be all in your mind? How many people do you think will read the same verses that you get these messages from and come out with the same result? It’s the same as when the Shepherds Chapel people read in Genesis that Satan had sex with Eve, or when some Christians are convinced that the souls of those who reject Jesus will suffer for eternity in Hell. It’s all a matter of interpretation, and we take our preconceived ideas with us when we read biblical verses. The way that you interpret biblical verses tells me more about who you are than so-called “truths” that you believe are contained in the Bible.

As I read your post further, I see you believe in “global elites” who are attempting to set up a “world order” so that they can have “total control over humanity.” You tell us that these “elites” are creating chaos until we “beg for a messiah.” Then they will bring us one, a savior, who will rule the world. All of this you believe will come through the United Nations. Sounds similar to the plot of The Omen, which also is based on the end times propheices of Christianity; or Rosemary’s Baby…or so many other plots and conspiracy theories that are out there. Once the child of Satan is in power, and humanity is enslaved for a time…Jesus will return to save us all.

I’m really having a hard time not being condescending, FOAK; because in truth I’m thinking, “This guy is either making all of this up just to create a character here on FactNet, or he is delusional.” If you really believe what you’re saying, I would have to say, in all honesty, that you have a tenuous grasp of reality . This is only my opinion, I may be wrong.

[ba2]

I read Dodge’s post to you above and I can’t say it better than he just did. Daniel 12:4 is an extremely vague passage, even when put into the context of the rest of the chapter. You can create just about any meaning from it you wish. I suggest that anyone scrutinize the passage as you would any other ancient writing. If that passage was written in a different book, such as Homer’s Iliad or Odyssey, would you have the same interpretation? Probably not even close.

Just a few of my observations and understanding of history:

History began when humans learned to read and write. The first writing we know of came from civilizations in Mesopotamia and Egypt. People lived for thousands of years before this, but little changed from generation to generation. People lived as nomads. Eventually, people learned how to write. Writing allowed people to pass their knowledge onto others. Sir Isaac Newton once said, "If I have seen further than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." What he meant was that his accomplishments were possible because he learned from the people who came before him. Instant worldwide communication is one reason why our society is rapidly changing. I certainly don’t question the thought that the world is rapidly gaining knowledge. At the same time, we are also losing knowledge. Most people would not survive if they suddenly had to live the life of a nomad and hunt and forage to keep alive. But yes, there is a rapid gain in knowledge.

There were rapid spurts in knowledge gain in the past too. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc. Then in Europe, as the Roman Christian Church gained power, the Roman Empire collapsed the Dark ages emerged. Very few people could read or write and nobody expected conditions to improve. It is one of the few times in European history where the knowledge base actually declined. Other parts of the world did not experience this “Dark Age”. The only hope for most people in Europe during the Middle Ages was their strong belief in Christianity, and the hope that life in heaven would be better than life on earth.

Historians consider the Renaissance to be the beginning of modern history. Again, very rapid growth in knowledge, probably unprecedented up to that time. The industrial age found another spurt in knowledge. And now we have the information age. Again, I never suggested that there isn't presently some rapid growth in learning. You argue over nothing.

This is all irrelevant to any ancient prediction.

[dobman53]

Ba2:

You said knowledge has allways been increasing. For the most part this is generally an exceptable statement. But the increase we see today is unparralled. Far more than were normally aware.

Check this out!! I believe it was due to budget restraints in the US econnomy. When the US government first began searching amongst all its many programs to further reduces it's expenditures. They decided to first investigated area's where they felt such programs were no longer neccassary in functioning any further usefullness. So it then came to their attension that it was Totally obvious to vertually all members of this one commitee that everything imaginable had already been invented so they then made a motion to close the US Patten Office. The year was 1899, and these men were thought of in their day as being quite intellectuals.

Ba2 my point I'll hear make is not about anything or anyone point you've made, but more of a general statement. Many times through out our lives each of us make assumtion, and statements were sure the majority of people would be in agreement with. Sometimes these very thoughs as well as statements get to be taken far to often for granted. Just from these Idea's being generally excepted alone doesn't allways make them true.

When we relate certain attitudes as always being from a safe mode perspective. Such interactions can invariably get in our way. Bringing this all back to be with-under the new world umbrella were just as likely to all be such victoms time from time. Here's where each of us should in essance be more aware when we find our own assumtions being to close to thoughs which are so easily then taken for granted. This coming new world order is going to require us to be on our highest tip-toes, or will be left in the rubble.

Dodge: Your assumtions about all my understandings are pictured as only you could concieve them. A little truth stretched about a mile and a quarter. Should you really be so interested I'll answer your questions one mistakes at a time. provided you present them one mistake at a time. As you see my old friend your highly mistaken.

Dodge just stop and take a Look!! I've shared the same angers, truth be know I'm a pretty fair marksman myself at casting stones . But!! I mean after all, doesn't your arm ever tire from all the throwing, maybe just a little?? It's time you go cool off, and have a seat on the bench, then hurry it up, and get back into the game. Hey!! this thread doesn't have to travel our mutually bumpy roads. We can always click over to one of the other treads and beat ourselves half to death.

It's all good!!

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

I’m really having a hard time not being condescending, FOAK; because in truth I’m thinking, “This guy is either making all of this up just to create a character here on FactNet, or he is delusional.” If you really believe what you’re saying, I would have to say, in all honesty, that you have a tenuous grasp of reality . This is only my opinion, I may be wrong.

I am glad to see that you are at least making an effort to be diplomatic.
I will make this easier for you Dodge.
I am not trying to create any character here on Factnet.


Dodge, you have exaggerated much of what i have said and now you think you have the right to be condescending, but for my sake you are holding back.
Well please do not let me interrupt your shout therapy.
I have been called delusional as well as many other things, it phases me little.
I cannot take you any more seriously than you are willing to take what i say seriously.
You come here and ask question after question about things you already know and understand just to get me to a point where you can ridicule what i am saying.
It is your M.O.
You think you are above us all so you lead us by the nose until you think you finally have us.
You then attack us like we are some second rate human being who is simply delusional.
You give nothing in return in these conversations.
It is far from a debate.
If it were a debate it would be over.
You have nothing to back up any of your assertions, especially the one that i am delusional.
I care little for your opinions Dodge.
If that is all you have then this so called debate/discussion is about over it seems.

I think i just described Smyrna.
Am i talking to the right person?
If you would just use what you know for the benefit of others instead of lording it over people you would actually have some value here.

[fatherofaking]

I read Dodge’s post to you above and I can’t say it better than he just did. Daniel 12:4 is an extremely vague passage, even when put into the context of the rest of the chapter. You can create just about any meaning from it you wish. I suggest that anyone scrutinize the passage as you would any other ancient writing. If that passage was written in a different book, such as Homer’s Iliad or Odyssey, would you have the same interpretation? Probably not even close.

Just a few of my observations and understanding of history:

History began when humans learned to read and write. The first writing we know of came from civilizations in Mesopotamia and Egypt. People lived for thousands of years before this, but little changed from generation to generation. People lived as nomads. Eventually, people learned how to write. Writing allowed people to pass their knowledge onto others. Sir Isaac Newton once said, "If I have seen further than others, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." What he meant was that his accomplishments were possible because he learned from the people who came before him. Instant worldwide communication is one reason why our society is rapidly changing. I certainly don’t question the thought that the world is rapidly gaining knowledge. At the same time, we are also losing knowledge. Most people would not survive if they suddenly had to live the life of a nomad and hunt and forage to keep alive. But yes, there is a rapid gain in knowledge.

There were rapid spurts in knowledge gain in the past too. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc. Then in Europe, as the Roman Christian Church gained power, the Roman Empire collapsed the Dark ages emerged. Very few people could read or write and nobody expected conditions to improve. It is one of the few times in European history where the knowledge base actually declined. Other parts of the world did not experience this “Dark Age”. The only hope for most people in Europe during the Middle Ages was their strong belief in Christianity, and the hope that life in heaven would be better than life on earth.

Historians consider the Renaissance to be the beginning of modern history. Again, very rapid growth in knowledge, probably unprecedented up to that time. The industrial age found another spurt in knowledge. And now we have the information age. Again, I never suggested that there isn't presently some rapid growth in learning. You argue over nothing.

This is all irrelevant to any ancient prediction.


Just show me one person that agrees with your assessment ba2.
just one.
I cannot see how you have disproved anything that i have backed up with numerous sources.

[ba2]

dob
So you think that polititions are considered intellectuals?

The story that's most often told is that in 1899 the head of the U.S. Patent Office sent his resignation to President McKinley urging the closing of the office because "everything that could be invented has been invented." It's been told and retold so often that even President Reagan used it in a speech.

The "quote" is often attributed to Charles Duell, who was Commissioner of Patents in 1899. However, Duell was far from pessimistic about the future of new inventions and patents. He even encouraged Congress to improve the patent system.

This is another one of those urban legends, there is no record of it actually happening. But, like always, many politions move to end many programs, good or bad.

You said, "This coming new world order is going to require us to be on our highest tip-toes, or will be left in the rubble." You may be right, we always have to prepare for the future. I don't question that we may someday see a new world order. My guess is that China will soon emerge as a world power and world player. What will that mean for us? I guess it depends on how we position ourselves.

Sometime during my life I had an "ahaa" moment while I was studing scripture. I was probably in highschool. I just can't see any connection with ancient predictions and todays world, other than very vague and general predictions that would probably fit with any time period. Daniel 12:4 is but one example. Why don't we believe the predictions of Nostradamus? or anyone else?

If you make enough predictions, some are bound to come true. If you wait long enough, they will all eventually come true.

http://www.yorktownhistory.org/homepages/1900_predictions.htm

[ba2]

Just show me one person that agrees with your assessment ba2.
just one.
I cannot see how you have disproved anything that i have backed up with numerous sources.

You have backed up nothing. Most of what I have written you can find in just about any elementary history book.

You have a knack of getting others to put a lot of thought in trying to answer your statements. Then you make a silly one line statement inferring that you proved your point and everyone agrees with you. You are either delusional or you get a kick out of seeing how much you can get others chace you down the rabbit hole.

Daniel 12:4 is an extremely vague passage, even when put into the context of the rest of the chapter. If you can, forget for the moment that it is not in the bible, then try to understand what it means. You can create just about any meaning from it you wish. I don’t see any relevancy of any ancient prediction except in very broad general terms. I really don’t need to say any more. I learn absolutely nothing from you.

[dobman53]

In the Bible I believe it's in Ezeikiel, but I'm not for sure?? Anyways it states of the chariots being driven in formations having firery lights to guide their way.

You need to remember these prophets were not seeing visions of an absolutely exact photographic picture of the future, but more or less God was projecting in their minds how things would closely appear in the future.

Should any of us be so bold, and say that chariots in formation having lights that guides their way, combined with the going to and fro, and great knowledge should one then be so bold and combind all this together. Well it sure does sound like what we see to day. I myself don't think I would argue against it to much!! if any at all. But I guess I just take it for granted??

But if some insist something writen down 2500 years ago is just to vague to mean much of anything?? I'll need to remind them this is after all the Bible, and this is not some recent flash in the pan that just got published here the other day.

Now there are some myself included who enjoy learning the histories of ancient times. There are some classics from both Greek and Roman litterature that have formed the bases from which most of the knowledge we now presently know of them.

There's a whole lot of people that take these very readings of the Greeks and Romans and take all thats written pretty much for granted. But here's a fact not many of them are aware of the writtings from the Bible we have original pieces of litterature dating back 2800 years. (Dodge remember the talking donkey in the Bible that the absolute oldest know 2800 years old) Anyways!! these are the actual pieces written down long ago, But now lets turn our attension back upon these Greek and Roman pieces of Litterature. Their 1600 to 2300 years old but not one single original fragment remains, as the oldest records of these writtings are no older than 1000 years old an those number but just a few, and their frangments were needed to be joined together in order to obtain full copies.

The Greek and Roman litteratures are taken as the Gospel truth of their times beings we've allways took them for granted. But with the Bible where we have the originals, and they number in the 10's of hundreds we in turn don't take them for granted??

It's all a matter of perspective about what men from over the centries of time have believed, and then of course taken it all for granted.

I think your catching my drift, or am I assuming your taking this all for granted.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

ba2

Politians were viewed a little more less critical than they are today. There was a time not to long ago where when the government told you something you believed it.

Nastrodamus Is what I concider exstemely vague. As his writting are lone sentances, jumbled one after another having no connections between them. The Bible on the other hand is written in complete chapters having sentances that form the meanings of each chapter.

In this aspect there at two opposite ends of the perspectrum. Should I write out a mish-mash of unconected sentances the complete vagueness of such could in all probabilities match up to a whole number of chosen events. Though if I were to type out complete chapters and brought up subjects that 2000 years later matched up this would cause some to at least take some notice. So in this instance matching up Nastrodomus to the Bible is like matching up War and Piece to mad magazine. Though here again this all from my perspective.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

I'm to log off now
but I'll be back.

Dodge have you cooled yet??

Come on,, You can make good points
I know the better half of you.
Whats the point!!
Me FOAK ba2 don't agree
on everything either.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

You have backed up nothing. Most of what I have written you can find in just about any elementary history book.

You have a knack of getting others to put a lot of thought in trying to answer your statements. Then you make a silly one line statement inferring that you proved your point and everyone agrees with you. You are either delusional or you get a kick out of seeing how much you can get others chace you down the rabbit hole.

Daniel 12:4 is an extremely vague passage, even when put into the context of the rest of the chapter. If you can, forget for the moment that it is not in the bible, then try to understand what it means. You can create just about any meaning from it you wish. I don’t see any relevancy of any ancient prediction except in very broad general terms. I really don’t need to say any more. I learn absolutely nothing from you.


Thank you ba2 for confirming my suspicions, you have nothing to back up what you say accept to say that it is in the school history books.
It seems to me that both you and Dodge have nothing left in your bag of tricks, so that makes me delusional.
That is very convenient of you both to paint me as delusional with out even discussing any of the things i posted to prove what i am saying.

You went straight to the Bible and criticized it and me.
You did not consider all that i posted to show that the message of the Bible can be trusted, part of which is Dan. 12:4.

You did nothing to dispute the proof i used to show the integrity of the Bible and it's message.
Why?
Because you cannot.
You continue to attack the one passage as vague yet you refuse to acknowledge that it is part of a bigger message.
You know full well that is what i have been saying all along.

I showed you both proof of my assertions about the exponential increase in knowledge and the resulting paradigm shift.
You have shown me nothing to counter this argument.


Neither you nor Dodge have addressed these things and yet you walk away thinking that you have accomplished something by claiming me to be delusional without ever really addressing the subject in a substantive way.

I think it is clear that the two of you have little to contribute to this discussion.
At least thus far you have shown that to be true.
I took on this challenge because i thought i could back up the things i said with a good argument.
I do not think that i know it all, and i had hoped to learn a few things along the way about the subject, not about your character.

So excuse me while i jump back down the rabbit hole.




Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
by
Lewis Carroll

CHAPTER I

DOWN THE RABBIT-HOLE

ALICE was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, "and what is the use of a book," thought Alice, "without pictures or conversations?' So she was considering, in her own mind (as well as she could, for the hot day made her feel very sleepy and stupid), whether the pleasure of making a daisy-chain would be worth the trouble of getting up and picking the daisies, when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.
There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did Alice think it so very much out of the way to hear the Rabbit say to itself "Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be too late!" (when she thought it over afterwards it occurred to her that she ought to have wondered at this, but at the time it all seemed quite natural); but, when the Rabbit actually took a watch out of its waistcoat-pocket, and looked at it, and then hurried on, Alice started to her feet, for it flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a rabbit with either a waistcoat-pocket, or a watch to take out of it, and burning with curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge.
In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again.
http://www.sabian.org/alicech1.htm

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. I’m not sure why you’re getting so defensive and feeling the need to lash out. I asked you what verse led you to believe that Daniel was talking about the early 21st century; and you cited Daniel 12:4, “…many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Right below that verse you said “This is the verse I am connecting to the current exponential growth of knowledge and the coming paradigm shift.” My reaction was that you read way too much into that verse, saying that it’s talking about our time, here and now. How does “…many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased” indicate that this is a prophecy about the first twenty five years of the 21st century? People running around, knowledge increasing…don’t you think that’s a bit thin to say this is all about here and now?

You didn’t back any of this up, all you said was that “part of the message of the Bible tells of a time like this.” I don’t see it, your interpreations make no sense to me whatsoever. It’s obvious that you see something there, but I fail to see what that is. When confronted with your odd interpreation, in my opinion, you tend to turn on us and say things like “Since the two of you do not see the Bible the same way as I, then I can understand why you would question what I’m saying.” “You simply do not take the Bible seriously.” Then you say “The message is clear that a time will come that is unprecedented in scope and even understanding.” But, Father of a King, it doesn’t say so in the verse that you pointed to. All it says is that people are running around and there is an increase in knowledge. If you have other verses that back up the things that you’re saying, I would be glad to consider them. So far, you’ve shown me nothing but a man who projects too much into a few vague sentences, trying desparately to link his beliefs to biblical verses. This is what I experience what you say in your posts, and I’m telling you the truth. If it seems like denegration or ridicule, then I’m sorry. I’m being honest with you about what I think.

I don’t see where I’ve exaggerated what you’ve said. If so, show me. I have no idea what you mean by “shout therapy.” In my responses to what you write, I feel that I’ve been calm and carefully considered everything I’ve said. You say that you’ve been called delusional in the past and that it “doesn’t phase you,” but look at your response to a little criticism here. You lash back at me and say that you care little for my opinions and that this discussion is over. You even compare me to Smyrna and call my contributions here as having no value. I think you misinterpret what I say as much as you misinterpret biblical verses, Father of a King. The fact is, you have not offered any proof whatsoever that your ideas of an “exponential growth in knowledge bringing about a paradigm shift,” are referred to in the Bible as a prophecy for the 21st century.

And your views of the United Nations manipulating events in order to make people beg for a redeemer, only to present a false messiah who will rule the world for a short time until Jesus comes back to save us all is…how shall I put it? Well, as you said yourself; you’re used to people calling you delusional.

I’m being direct and honest with you about how I perceive what I read in your posts, Father of a King. You can take it or leave it, I don’t care. I’m not going to sugar coat my opinions. If this causes you to shut down and refuse to continue in this discussion, so be it. That's your choice.

[dodge]

Dobman53 -- You wrote that my assumptions about your understandings are in error. All I did was repeat some of the things that Shepherd Chapel students themselves have written in these threads over the past three years that I’ve been here. You said that you would answer my questions, one at a time. OK, let’s start with:

One of the things that I said was that you, being a Shepherds Chapel student, must believe that the United Nations is controlled by Kenites, and that they are working to enslave the world in order to create a One World Order in preparation for the arrival of the “antichrist“; and that these Kenites are a race of beings who descended from a sexual liason between Satan and Eve.

Is this part of your belief system or not? Enlighten me.

[dobman53]

Dear Dodge: I'll do my best in addressing your statement formed in a questionable manner. First I think it's best where I make an attempt to bring to light what I'm sure your aware of in first labeling a group as the Shepards Chaple. I'll explain as follows, the often times human perceptions of individuals is to catigorize persons in groups. Yet more often than not it's a single individuals conceptions that wind up being understood as a whole of these same groups. I myself have investigated a number of sites, there seeing a whole barrage of opinions which can then be thought of as in association as a whole. Here again with this there's no different for the Shepards Chaple or any other group for that matter.

I don't mind telling you that what I've wittnessed are for the most part individuals who when first coming to understand certain things take the ball and run as if they had been proffesionals their entire lifes. Quite similar to 2nd grade students wishing to teach as if college proffessors.

Lets take your United Nations comment as being controlled by Kenites. Such talk I'm here to tell you is not anywhere close to that which some of these students profess to know all about. Some go so far as seeing a Kenite under every bush. The actuall number of Kenites cannot be known, though this number is small in comparison to anything close to what some begginers might think. The truth to the matter is Kenites are as a whole within the confines of the Jewish Religeon. They only seek to blind the true Jewish belief, as they pose as Jew's but in reality their not. In the book of Revelations only two congregation found favor with Christ Jesus, as most were more interested with false traditions than seekers of truth. The Only comment Jesus made in recognition of those he found favor with was in telling that those two congregations made known of those who say they are Jews and are not. To then say they are of the synagogue of Satan. Here again there is no other conection in associated with the Kenites with being envolved with the UN or under a bush either.

This Liason as you call it is pretty much exactly that. Eve gave birth to twins Cain and Able. Cain was of Satan and Able was of Adam. Cains seeds are what are known to be Kenites. As Kenites by name means Cain's offsprings.

Now I'll be the first to admit such a thought is most discusting when your normal thought of Christian first hears such a thing. As I myself thought it was the craziest thing I'd ever before heard of in my entire life. First I need to say that I didn't just stumble in off the streets, as one to be picturted where I might have been some week, miserably misguided lost fool of a human being. No thats not even close, as I detested this Idea for over 3 years after first coming to realise the realities of such thoughts. Just the same with the passing of several years my knowledge of the Bible had increased enough where I then first began to understand such a concept.

Now as far as thing go concerning Satan. Satan is the one who comes in, to be the usher of this new age one world order, his seeds play their parts in the religeous aspects. This eventually all leads up to Satans desirers of sitting in Jerusalem upon his thrown to then be worshipped as God himself.

Now I'm not banking on this clearing anything up here right away, but I gave it a shoot none the less.

I've just this one thing to say about thoughs sites that appear as being in direct relationship to Pastor Murray. In pastor Murrays own words I've heard him say time and time again that he detests these sites who appear as speaking for him. As you very well know their all over the gambent in a whole flurry of uninformed crazy talking. There actually a very small minority as you'll never see me there. Though before I sound as guilty as the accussers, I should all so add in defence of the many others that there are some very good people on these same sites as well. Though there's some real loons who give the whole site a bad rap. Such as thoughs who see Kenites popping up in every bad thing they can possibly imagine. I only need to tell you it's just simply not so!!

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

don't you get it dob?
He is baiting us.
He will now proceed to call you delusional.
He asks us questions so that we will open up about our beliefs and then he proceeds to tell us we are delusional for believing it.
He never tells us anything of his own beliefs.

He knows our beliefs better than we do.
He doesn't need any information from us.
He is here to mock.
Sorry Dodge but it is time you got put where you belong, outside the camp.
I am not going to stop posting however, because i think there are some here that actually want to hear what i have to say.

[dobman53]

FOAK:

My thoughts are not of what Dodge might or has done, but more in line of him doing.

I'll give him any respounce he might wish to have. Should it make any difference which way he decides. Well in truthfullness I'd be just as satisfied in him knowing the words straight from my mouth. That way his decision are all for the better.

I mean I don't expect any major change, other than maybe a little better.

FOAK we might stake a poke at one another, but I'm not, as your not. either of us to then go flying off the handle at the sight of the others post. I mean I'm not here with spotless hands my ownself. I mean after all one's probably going to give the occassional poke at the other,, fine,, but then be done with it.

Dodge like me, or you to FOAK can get on a tare now and again, but this constant thing between me and Dodge is gone on far to long for either of our own goods. In all truthfullness Dodge can argue his side rather well. But what's new besides the obvious.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

For as long as there has been commentary on the Bible it has been understood that part of the message conveyed tells of a time coming in the history of humanity that will be without precedent.

It is said that it will be a time of one government and one religion.
During the time we live in we have the politicians of the world saying it is time for a new world order.
We have proof that part of the U.N. agenda includes being an instrument for revealing the "Christ".
You may not have much respect for the Bible or any other holy books but you cannot deny that what has always been said in the Bible is now being said openly around the world by those in power.
If you can dismiss this as no different than any other time in history then you simply have been made blind for some reason.
It only takes common sense, not some secret knowledge.

The Bible says one world government and one world religion before it all comes to some kind of climax or end.
The beginning of something new.
We also have the U. N. agenda and world politicians telling us now is the time for a new world order.

Denial changes nothing.

[truth_child]

yes there will come a day of wide spread commotion and destruction. it will be GODS DAY OF VENGENCE

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King -- What part of the United Nations “agenda” is being used as an instrument for revealing the “Christ?” There are a lot of agencies connected with the UN, each with its mission and goals; which one is this Christ-revealing instrument? I can’t verify what you say until I know what you’re talking about. Thank you.

You said that I can’t deny that “what has always been said in the Bible is now being said openly around the world by those in power.” Can you give me examples? Which world leaders are saying such things, and what are the things they’re saying about “what has always been said in the Bible?” Quotes, sources?

These questions are necessary, Father of a King, in order for me to understand what you base your beliefs on.

You also say that if I don’t see what you do then I “simply have been made blind for some reason,” and that it “only takes common sense.” I respectfully disagree. You make statements that you never back up, and expect me to believe you; and if I don’t then I must be blind. You haven’t really been doing all you can to convince me or anyone else. That passage in Daniel that talks of people running around and knowledge increasing certainly is not proof of your idea that we are on the verge of some “paradigm shift,” whatever that means to you. I’ve asked you to quote other biblical passages that you think refer to the early 21st century as being the time when a New World Order will be ushered in; but so far you haven’t shown me anything that lends support to that conclusion. In order for me to grasp the basis of your thinking, I have to take a look at the exact wording as it is written in the Bible. Otherwise, all we have is your interpretation.

May I ask you to post chaper and verse when you say such things as “The Bible says one world government and one world religion before it all comes to some kind of climax or end.” Then I could go to my Bible and see for myself what the actual words are and in what context. I’m trying to see what you do in the Bible; but just like the Shepherds Chapel students reading of Genesis 3:13 when Eve told God that the serpent had beguiled her into eating the fruit of the forbidden tree as Satan having sex with her…your interpretations appear to be similarly based on subjective preconceptions…or so it seems to me.

Father of a King, I’m not “baiting” you. I’m attempting to understand why you believe what you do. In order for that to happen, I have to take a look at the passages in the Bible where you find evidence to back up your claims…but you have to show me where these passages are instead of interpreting them in your own words without pointing to the original chapter and verse. I have to see for myself where the United Nations has an agenda, as you say, that includes “being an instrument for revealing the Christ,” and I have to see direct quotes from world leaders who you say are saying “it is time for a new world order.”

You said that I never tell you anything about my own beliefs. This is a thread about the New World Order. I don’t believe that there is a secret UN conspiracy designed to manipulate people into begging for a savior and then providing them with one who is actually evil who will rule for a short time only to have Jesus return to save us all. I’ve given a description of my spiritual evolution, and how it has created a way of being within me that is right for me. What else do you want to know about what I believe? I'm trying to stay on point with beliefs about a New World Order conspiracy to enslave humanity.

[jargon631]

hi foak...i just want to start this by saying that i have no personal dogs in this hunt and i have no axe to grind with anyone...i dont have a beef with anyone in this debate...in fact i think that all of u have made some good points...that having been said, i must confess that i dont see the connection in the book of daniel either...bear in mind im not just saying that to be diffficult...as an ex-adventist i studied daniel and the revelation exhaustively and when i was breathing the rarified air of the academy it was easy to believe in all the prophecies...why?...because i was conditioned to accept at face value everything that was put forward...im not suggesting that those who believe in the prophecies are wrong and im NOT belittling the amount of in-depth studying that i am sure u engage in...i just think that prophecies can be made to fit any belief or zeitgeist...does the fact that i despise the sda and dont believe anything they say a factor?...honestly??...decidedly so...am i closed minded about prophecies?...more than likely...it all just seems like "plot convenience theater"...im not saying any of this to be hateful, i just thought i would chime in...fd

[stage director]

Hey, FoaK. I think I missed what it is exactly that's supposed to be documented in Daniel. What was it?

[dodge]

Best wishes on this sunny though very cold Saturday morning from Northeastern Massachusetts, Dobman53. I had to take a run over the the local foodmart to get some coffee (Starbucks Columbian) and am now pouring my first cup from my french press. Mmmmmmm, good!

I always thought that students of Shepherds Chapel believed that Kenites controlled the United Nations and were using it to create a One World Order. Now you’re telling me this isn’t true, and that Kenites are mostly found in the Jewish Religion. What do you mean by that? Are you saying that Kenites are the Rabbis and High Priests of Judaism? How is the idea of a One World Order related to these Kenites? Isn’t their mission to prepare the way for the anti-Christ? If so, how are they exerting their influence as members of the Rabbinical cast?

[stage director]

I always thought that students of Shepherds Chapel believed that Kenites controlled the United Nations and were using it to create a One World Order. Now you’re telling me this isn’t true, and that Kenites are mostly found in the Jewish Religion.

They do ... despite the attempts to uhh, whitewash.

[dodge]

Yea, Stage, that's what I thought; but I'm waiting for Dob to respond. I'm going to have to do some searching in past threads to verify that these FactNet ShepChaps do indeed believe that Kenites are in control of the United Nations, and that Dobman believes that these Kenites are Rabbinical Jews. I'm sure that I remember him saying that. But, as I demand of others, I need to prove what I say with direct evidence.

[ba2]

ba2

Politians were viewed a little more less critical than they are today. There was a time not to long ago where when the government told you something you believed it.

Nastrodamus Is what I concider exstemely vague. As his writting are lone sentances, jumbled one after another having no connections between them. The Bible on the other hand is written in complete chapters having sentances that form the meanings of each chapter.

In this aspect there at two opposite ends of the perspectrum. Should I write out a mish-mash of unconected sentances the complete vagueness of such could in all probabilities match up to a whole number of chosen events. Though if I were to type out complete chapters and brought up subjects that 2000 years later matched up this would cause some to at least take some notice. So in this instance matching up Nastrodomus to the Bible is like matching up War and Piece to mad magazine. Though here again this all from my perspective.

Dob!!

What I got out of my history classes is that politicians have always been criticized by the public. And the nastiness we have seen in this last election was going on since the beginning of our USA elections. The big difference now is that we have television.

I agree with you about Nostradamus, extremely vague. But so many people buy into this fortune telling stuff. The general public is very gullible. But try to look at Daniel 12:4 objectively. "But thou,O Daniel,shut up the words,and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

The most I can get out of this is that people will always be running around teaching and learning. People will continue to increase their knowledge until the end of time.

By sealing them up, or by closing the book, and writing no more in it. The meaning is, that all has been communicated which it was intended to communicate. Nothing else to say, people are running around learning and will continue to do so forever. Period. Just a comment - No great prophesy.

To suggest that this somehow is a sign that here today, those words prove we are nearing the end of time is very imaginative. The only purpose to teach that we are near the end of time is to scare the public. The effect is that more people go to church and give some of their hard earned cash. You see, this is nothing more than a flim-flam.

[dobman53]

Dodge:

If I should hear someone state all kinds of crazy stuff, then when asked that same person say's he's a Democrate. Would I then be wise to then say well all Democrates believe this and that. Imagine if I were to choose such tatic's then repeatedly launched unending attacks. Where having it be you who just a soon as answering one volley, I then turned around an launched ten times more. Mind you each attempt was basically more of the same, though phrased a little differently. Such an exchange would see no end should the opposer be only engaged to have it be mayhem, there having no actual thoughts of any kind of understandings.

There's an avenue of opposing thought's, of asking to show evidence endlessly. The opposer well knows the defender will have to prepair a defence, and no more when this defence is brought forth, the opposer then quickyly say's he doesn't believe it and then asks for more in defence. This game goes on for awhile until the defender tires of bringing forth such evidence. Then the opposer claims of all his brilliance and announces his total victory.

Then of all things others gather around and commend him for job well done. (Stage)

Well should your goals be nothing more than hollow victories I myself will pat you on the back and say you deserve it, beings your the total master of such arts.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

ba2:

Now certainly should anyone take a lone verse I'm quite sure there could be as many interpetations as there are readers. But here's where a lot of people go wrong. It's with them thinking that a verse here or a verse there and who knows just what. Here's what the problem is until a person invests the time in learning a whole host of many such prophesies they'll never be capable of making any sence out of any of them. Let me give you a quick illistration. Lets say two people read a verse of prophesy. One says it means this while the other say's no it means this. The one who said no, knows that in another verse it mentions things which means what the other guy is saying can't be correct.

Once you've come to know of all these variences you can then stand firm in your understandings. But intill then your left to guess as best you can. By me saying this I'm not trying to say you know nothing, but maybe your beginning to understand what I learned many years ago. I learned I didn't know half as much as I thought I once did.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

FOAK:

Stage has questioned you about Daniel.

SD should he search where you then only tell him it's all a lie??

I sometimes wonder why is stage doing such things? I mean I know she knows such things, but why take to acting out this same routine, of similarities with Dodge?

SD: We've all been guilty at times of seeking certain aspects of admiration, I've been down that road myself. But I feel in need to warn you it's a dead in road your now a traveling, as I hit that very same dead end at 90 miles an hour my ownself. It would have been a lot easier had I just turned around, but instead I hit that dead end sign right smack dab in the middle. Leaving me only then to having to pick up all the pieces and limp back into town.

You'll not stop me from carring
about you no matter what.

and I'm not very good
when it comes to lying
so you best believe it's
the honest truth.

Dob!!

[dodge]

Hi Dobman53. You lost me. So you don’t want to answer my question directed at you about your comment that “Kenites or primarily in the Jewish religion” because…why? You really get wrapped up in convoluted hard-to-decipher circuitous reasoning that would require a Captain Marvel decoder ring to interpret.

Through several readings of your last post to me, I see something about Democats, tactics of “repeatedly launching unending attacks,” launching volleys and ten times more, opposers and defenders, defence announcing “claims of brilliance and total victory.” What in hell does all that have to do with answering what appears to me to be a simple question?

All I asked was for you to explain what you meant when you said that “Kenites are confined to the Jewish religion,” and “seek to blind the true Jewish belief.” The only way that I can understand what you post is to ask questions.

I’ll try one more time. By saying that Kenites are within the Jewish religion, do you mean that they are Rabbis and High Priests? Simple, isn’t it? Try to focus, and do the best you can to communicate with me in the most direct and plain way that you can. I know that’s hard for you; but I know you can do it. If you can manage a response that that, please tell me where the One World Order fits in with these Kenites who are “in the Jewish religion.” I ask this because this thread is about the New World Order, which I believe is an integral part of the Shepherds Chapel student world view. Whew!

[ba2]

ba2:

Now certainly should anyone take a lone verse I'm quite sure there could be as many interpetations as there are readers. But here's where a lot of people go wrong. It's with them thinking that a verse here or a verse there and who knows just what. Here's what the problem is until a person invests the time in learning a whole host of many such prophesies they'll never be capable of making any sence out of any of them. Let me give you a quick illistration. Lets say two people read a verse of prophesy. One says it means this while the other say's no it means this. The one who said no, knows that in another verse it mentions things which means what the other guy is saying can't be correct.

Once you've come to know of all these variences you can then stand firm in your understandings. But intill then your left to guess as best you can. By me saying this I'm not trying to say you know nothing, but maybe your beginning to understand what I learned many years ago. I learned I didn't know half as much as I thought I once did.

Dob!!

I have read the entire bible through and through many times. Actually I rarely read one verse by itself. One of the worse things that was done with the scripture was to number the lines. I quoted Daniel because for the last number of days, Daniel 12:4 is what everyone has been focusing on. If you remember, earlier I said it doesn’t matter if you read the entire chapter or the entire book, I still can’t see a connection of the end of times with today. I am not suggesting that you are part of a cult, but what you threw back at me is a known cult tactic, telling me I have to read more or study more and until I read enough I will never understand. This is indoctrination, not education.

So, what was it that got you to believe that Daniel 12:4 was talking about the present time? My guess is that it was what someone taught you. Maybe they taught you so well that they got you to believe you found it yourself?

Tell me. How would you respond if a Muslim told you he had the truth and all you had to do is read the Koran over and over until you understood the message of Allah? And they add, “Until you read and intently study the Koran thoroughly, you will never understand.” You said you learned, are you sure you weren’t indoctrinated?

[fatherofaking]

Forget about Daniel already.
Like i already said, Daniel is just a small part of the big picture.
I thought i could use that to reference the current increase in knowledge.
Bad choice, sorry.

I will try a different approach.
I think you are all probably aware of a thing called Christian eschatology.
It is a study of how the plan of God unfolds.
It is not the whole message of the Bible just part of it.

Eschatology (from the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) ἔσχατος, Eschatos meaning "last" and -logy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-logy) meaning "the study of") is a part of theology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology) and philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy) concerned with what is believed to be the final events in the history of the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_world), or the ultimate destiny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny) of humanity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_humanity), commonly referred to as the end of the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_the_world). While in mysticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism) the phrase refers metaphorically to the end of ordinary reality and reunion with the Divine, in many traditional religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) it is taught as an actual future event prophesied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy) in sacred texts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_text) or folklore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore). More broadly, eschatology may encompass related concepts such as the Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah) or Messianic Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age), the end time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time), and the end of days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Days_%28eschatology%29).Eschatology has also been a belief shared, sometimes theorized on, by philosophers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophers). Saint Augustine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo) stressed the allegorical method of interpretation. He was greatly influenced by Origen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology#cite_note-1) He was followed by Ibn al-Nafis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Nafis)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology#cite_note-Roubi-2) and Hegel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegel) with their philosophy of history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_history), and, some (such as the author Albert Camus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Camus) in 'The Rebel') have argued, Karl Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx). Theodicy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy) has gathered together most Enlightenment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) thinkers, among whom are Kant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant) and Rousseau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousseau).
More recently, many involved in futures studies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futures_studies) and transhumanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism) have noted the accelerating rate of scientific progress and anticipate a technological singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity) in the 21st century that would profoundly and unpredictably change the course of human history.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology#cite_note-3)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology

You see i am not the only one who is delusional.
I seem to be in pretty good company.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1


I am trying to say that i think the technological singularity and Christian eschatology are synonymous.
That the end times that are spoken of in Christian eschatology are happening now and the technological singularity will be the catalyst.
Is that clear?

In order to understand this you would have to do a little study of eschatology and also of the singularity; it's meaning and impact.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=memelist.html?m=1%23696

Don't forget to check out Ramona Dodge.

[fatherofaking]

There are no such thing as secret societies and powerful people behind them?

Tell that to J.F.K.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS7l6i4w11U&eurl=http://www.geocities.com/fatherofaking/politics.html?200931



http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Politics/Images/John-f-kennedy.jpg

[dodge]

Dobman53 -- Let me help you out, in case you're having a hard time. You said that if you were fortunate enough to visit the Holy Lands and "some highly costumed rabbi were to come by," you would "soon be away from him," and added "we are not to harm these men."
Who are we not to harm? Why Kenites of course. Who are the "highly cosumed" Rabbis? They are the Rabbis and High Priests of Orthodox Judaism. I see who you believe are Kenites.

In the "Cultbuster's Day of Reckoning" thread, you said "Take my word for it, the High Priests are Tares." In another thread you stated that the vast majority of Jews are not Kenites; but neither are all rabbi's Kenites either." You said that Arnold Murray directed his anger at "the Kenite religious leaders."

I understand now who you see as Kenites. Now that this is clear, how are these Orthodox Jewish Rabbis planning to set the stage for the coming of the anti-Christ and bring about the New World Order?

[dodge]

That’s an excellent propostion for a debate, Father of a King: “The End Times that are spoken of in Christian eschatology are happening now and the technological singularity will be the catalyst.” We could start with the first part of your theory, that the “end times that are spoken of in Christian eschatology are happening now.”

As far as I can see, you still haven’t proven that this is true. I certainly don’t believe it. OK, we’ll drop the Daniel passage, because there really isn’t anything in there to indicate that it’s speaking of the early years of the twenty-first century. What other biblical passages do you believe refer to the End Times taking place at this time in human history? I would love to look at them and try to see what you do…if only you would let me know which ones they are. We could read them together and you could show me why you think they’re talking about the present. Does that sound like a good place to begin? I really think that in order for this discussion to unfold without a lot of friction we need to first establish if the prophesies about the End Times are referring to the years that we are living in. OK? Oh, and who's "Ramona?"

[stage director]

FOAK:

Stage has questioned you about Daniel.

SD should he search where you then only tell him it's all a lie??

I sometimes wonder why is stage doing such things?


Dob, quit sniffin' your printer ink.

FoaK, I asked because Daniel is a prophetic book, and I can't find your original comment so don't know if the responses to you are in context to what you actually said.

[dobman53]

ba2:

When I mention a senario about two individuals discussing Bible verses. I did say that my comments were not in saying that you new nothing. Though I did comment on how people not having a more complete understanding can come to wrong conclusions. After my explanation You then compared this to a cultish practice.

Picture this..

Should a student be told that his reason for failing a particular exam is not his fault? Should colledge professors advise students to have no further studies, and if a professor did encourage them to continue in their studies should his campus then to be labled as a cult. Now Dodge don't jump in saying (NOW HE"S A PROFESSOR?) I only state such things in a way that makes such notions more clear. Now granted a cult can be accused of doing all manner of things in attempts to control the minds of others, but my talking amoungst us is hardly such a thing. Nor should I let it stand that I am of such a weak minded man where I could then be so easily mislead.

ba2 you say you can see no correlation of Daniels prophesies having anything to do with these particular times. Should I ask if maybe you see this new World order as completely harmless? Or perhaps you view this new world order as the greatest thing ever in the modern day history of man. Should you view it as a very positive thing then I shouldn't be surprised with your not seeing any correlation with Daniels prophesy.

You know what really surprise's me??

It's the untold number's of people who clammer all over themselves to believe things like Nastrodamus, Astrology, the Myan calender, you name it they will listen like there's no tomorrow and believe every word of it. Well maybe they won't neccessarily believe every word, but they will listen quite entently just the same. But should one dare mention the Bible they'll everyone roll up their eye's, and look as if their in complete total amazement that anyone could bring it up.

The questions asked by Dodge are nothing more than a roose, all in the acting of interest with numerous inquireries. So If it is classified by the many as cultish to then say go study the book. Then cultish it shall be.

This can again be held within regaurd's to my Proffesor statements. Where a student might asks enless questions. The teacher might say this subject is to deep to recieve an A on your exam from just asking a few questions. If a student is really that inquisitive he and desires an A he might then hit the books. As the teacher can easily tire from handing out endless hall passes.

Now just the same I'm not to be wishing an end to any further discussions, as we might all be interested in the others outlook. So Dodge to sit here and tell me Christianity leaves totally confused seems most strange to say the least. If one had no real interests and only posses questions in attempts to further critisize and condem, whats the point. As both you Dodge and ba2 seem to chime right in with each of your own verses when the need seems to suite you. So what's up with these games of under handness. Should it be where I'm just to posse as a pawn in this game of check mates??

So should any be engaged enough to say whats driving them, I'll not turn around to say more than my whats my fair share, and let it go at that. But should it be that every word from my mouth I then need to be completely made ridicule. I'll need to remind you, that I can toss stones like few have ever wittnessed.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

SD: Sorry about that!! it was just in the timing where your post popped in. thats all.

As it seemed perfectly timed with certain approuches where I then thought, Oh No!! she's siding with the others in questioning whether or not Daniels prophesies have any correlations to end time prophesies.

All is well.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

SD: I still carry a couple of stones in my pocket, you know just in case??

Dob!!

[dobman53]

Dodge: Kenites..

These Rabbi's are the son's of Cain. they say they are Jews, but their not of Adam.

These men are twisting the doctines of Judisium to have it where the Jew's will then be more excepting of this false Messiah.

Now you see that wasn't so bad. But continued rage directed towards me and I'll not be so inclined.

One step at a time works just fine for me.

Tell me this Dodge Do you look forward to this new world order??

Dob!!

[dobman53]

ba2: same question..

[stage director]

Dob, I was simply trying to figure out what Dodge is questioning FoaK about and until I hear the original statement I don't know if Dodge took exception to what he said, or what he thinks he means. I got lost somewhere in all the posts.

“The End Times that are spoken of in Christian eschatology are happening now and the technological singularity will be the catalyst.” We could start with the first part of your theory, that the “end times that are spoken of in Christian eschatology are happening now.”

If this it? If so, I think it's true to a certain extent in that these times might be the birth pangs. Certainly some of the things we're told would happen near the end of times are indeed occurring, and I just don't see how some of them could have been anticipated without some help.

Not positive that "the technological singularity will be the catalyst" but I guess it could be.

[fatherofaking]

Hang in there SD.
I decided to end the Daniel discussion for now in favor of a different approach.
I am open to any thing you want to add or criticize.

Dodge i disagree on the direction to move here.
I think we should discuss the implications of the singularity.
1. The effect that it will have when it occurs.
2. When that occurrence may take place.
3. The events leading up to the singularity.
4. What it may be like after it is reached.

I will fit this in with the Bible later when we have a clear view of what is going to take place soon.
We can understand a lot from the events that are coming in the near future without reading a single word in the Bible.
I think we should make clear what we can verify and agree on first.
What do you think?

[dodge]

Hi Dobman. Where did I tell you that, as you say it, “Christianity leaves totally confused?” (Whatever that means) You’re putting words in my mouth that were never there. It’s a lie. Then you say that I pose questions in an attempt to further critisize and condemn. In order to attempt an understanding of what you’re talking about, I need to ask questions. Are you saying that asking questions is off limits in a debate or a conversation? If I have an opinion based on what I hear you say, don’t I have a right to disagree with you? It seems like all you and Father of a King want us to do is listen and shut up. When you make a claim such as “Kenites are relegated to the Jewish religion,” (paraphrasing you) I need to know what you’re talking about. Since you refused to answer that, I was forced to do some research to find out what you mean. That’s how I found out that you believe that the Rabbis and High Priests within the orthodox branches of Judaism are Kenites.

From there I believe that the next question that I asked you is a natrual progression in this dialogue in order to find out what you believe about the New World Order (the title of this thread). So I asked you what these “Kenite Rabbis” in Orthodox Judaism are doing to usher in the One World Government from their religious positions. Since, as you believe, these Kenites are only in positions of power within Orthodox Judaism, and not in the United Nations (as you said), what influence do they have; and do you really believe that these Rabbis worship Satan? I know that you believe Muslims worship Satan, you’ve said that in these threads. (I can show you where if you want me to). How many other religions do you believe worship Satan?

There is no ridicule here, I’m only confronting you with the very things that you’ve said; and asking you to explain yourself and your beliefs about biblical prophesy as it relates to the End Times, Satan, Kenites and the New World Order.

You asked me if I “look forward to this new world order.” It is my belief that this is a myth; like all the other mythic stories and characters in the Bible. Angels, devils and demons, virgin births, Kenites, Noah’s Ark, the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, Satan, flaming swords, talking donkeys, people turning into salt, rivers magically parting at the wave of a staff…just mythic figures and events found in an ancient book that has a cultish following and transmitted through the millenia by way of indoctrination and in some case by force. I agree with Thomas Jefferson when he wrote that Revelation is an insane book and considered it “merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.”

http://www.constitution.org/tj/jeff16.htm

The reason I wanted to talk about the so-called “New World Order” is to try to understand why people believe in it. So far, in this thread, nobody has convinced me. In fact, there is a lot of avoidance. Father of a King refuses to point to specific biblical passages that he says prove that these things are happening now; and you avoid my questions by beating around the bush and giving me all kinds of reasons why you will not answer my questions. I have my own beliefs about these things, but I do have an open mind. If you can point me to biblical passages that prove that Revelation is referring to the early twenty-first century, I’m all ears. We can explore that together. Unfortunately, all I’m getting is smoke.

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. So you want to discuss the “implications of the singularity?” I don’t know what that has to do with the New World Order, the subject of this thread…and I’m concerned that this will take us miles away from the main topic. But, you say that you will eventually tie it all together with the Bible and prophesies about the “End Times,” the rule of “Satan,” and the returm of “Jesus.” Of course, you have me at a disadvantage because I know next to nothing about this “singularity.” I’m going to have to do a lot or research; but it will be a good education; which is one of the reasons I enjoy debate.

Where do you want to start? Could I ask you to refrain from posting dozens of web pages filled with quotes? I find that overwhelming. If we could just take it a step at a time, I'll try to keep up with you. I'm ready.

[fatherofaking]

I am on this journey along with you Dodge.
I think you may believe that i do not have an open mind as you claim you have.
I can assure you that it is my every intention to listen to what you have to say.

It seems that some of us are given the impression that they are being moved in a particular direction through the use of your questioning.
You may only be making an attempt to understand what we are saying but you must also understand the hesitance to put one's beliefs out for someone who has a habit of ridiculing the ideas of others rather than sharing his own ideas.
This hesitancy is what you are perceiving as an unwillingness to answer your questions.
When talking about the Bible and religion it is easy to invoke ridicule because much of it depends upon one's faith.
There is no belief in god without faith.
Faith however is not something we have to conjure up, it is something we have all been given.
Every human being despite what label they put on themselves or what they think of the Bible, has faith.


i thought that since the subject from a religious perspective is so controversial that i would approach it this way.
I want you to know that i am doing nothing but exploring this idea myself.
I think that the evidence i have thus far points to some drastic changes of "Biblical" proportions.
I may be wrong.
Doing this enables me to find out what i know and what i don't know.
I am not afraid to learn.

[dodge]

Fair enough, Father of a King. I guess it’s time that I learn about this technological singularity that you’ve introduced me to. I’m in the process of reading Vermor Vinge, Bill Joy, Ray Kurzweil, Robin Hanson and others as we speak…taking notes and feeding my mind. I’m looking forward to seeing the evidence that you say you have that “points to some drastic changes of biblical proportions.” I’m eagerly awaiting your first post that will get this discussion on the road. Let’s get started.

[ba2]

ba2:

When I mention a senario about two individuals discussing Bible verses. I did say that my comments were not in saying that you new nothing. Though I did comment on how people not having a more complete understanding can come to wrong conclusions. After my explanation You then compared this to a cultish practice.

Picture this..

Should a student be told that his reason for failing a particular exam is not his fault? Should colledge professors advise students to have no further studies, and if a professor did encourage them to continue in their studies should his campus then to be labled as a cult. Now Dodge don't jump in saying (NOW HE"S A PROFESSOR?) I only state such things in a way that makes such notions more clear. Now granted a cult can be accused of doing all manner of things in attempts to control the minds of others, but my talking amoungst us is hardly such a thing. Nor should I let it stand that I am of such a weak minded man where I could then be so easily mislead.

ba2 you say you can see no correlation of Daniels prophesies having anything to do with these particular times. Should I ask if maybe you see this new World order as completely harmless? Or perhaps you view this new world order as the greatest thing ever in the modern day history of man. Should you view it as a very positive thing then I shouldn't be surprised with your not seeing any correlation with Daniels prophesy.

You know what really surprise's me??

It's the untold number's of people who clammer all over themselves to believe things like Nastrodamus, Astrology, the Myan calender, you name it they will listen like there's no tomorrow and believe every word of it. Well maybe they won't neccessarily believe every word, but they will listen quite entently just the same. But should one dare mention the Bible they'll everyone roll up their eye's, and look as if their in complete total amazement that anyone could bring it up.

The questions asked by Dodge are nothing more than a roose, all in the acting of interest with numerous inquireries. So If it is classified by the many as cultish to then say go study the book. Then cultish it shall be.

This can again be held within regaurd's to my Proffesor statements. Where a student might asks enless questions. The teacher might say this subject is to deep to recieve an A on your exam from just asking a few questions. If a student is really that inquisitive he and desires an A he might then hit the books. As the teacher can easily tire from handing out endless hall passes.

Now just the same I'm not to be wishing an end to any further discussions, as we might all be interested in the others outlook. So Dodge to sit here and tell me Christianity leaves totally confused seems most strange to say the least. If one had no real interests and only posses questions in attempts to further critisize and condem, whats the point. As both you Dodge and ba2 seem to chime right in with each of your own verses when the need seems to suite you. So what's up with these games of under handness. Should it be where I'm just to posse as a pawn in this game of check mates??

So should any be engaged enough to say whats driving them, I'll not turn around to say more than my whats my fair share, and let it go at that. But should it be that every word from my mouth I then need to be completely made ridicule. I'll need to remind you, that I can toss stones like few have ever wittnessed.

Dob!!
Dob
Believe me when I tell you that I am not saying anything with malice. This is, I think, a pretty decent discussion.

Your point about the professor is a good one. But let me add, If the professor was telling his students that they must get all their information out of one book, and only one book, and keep reading that one book until they understood it and interpreted it the same way he understood it and interpreted it. I would say he was not much of a teacher. In fact, I would say this was more of a cultish indoctrination. Example: How does one come to truly understand our constitution? They don’t just read the script; they go further and read such things like the Federalist Papers, and other publications from the time. They would even learn and read about British laws, even though we are no longer under British law.

I am not pleased with the way much of the world is going. But, how I happen to view the world has nothing to do with the discussion. Are the prophecies, specifically, Daniel 12:04, connected to the present time, and are they a notice that we are very near the end of times? My answer is that I see no connection and I see it as an incredible stretch of the imagination to suggest that they do. Now, I am not criticizing you for your beliefs, certainly there are many people with that same belief. I just wonder how they came to that point of view. In my way of thinking, they were indoctrinated to a specific way of thinking.

Like you and others, I chime in with verses to make a point. My point about bringing up Nostradamus was that I don’t believe anyone can predict details of the future unless we are talking about very vague predictions. I can accurately predict that it will rain sometime in the next six months. But I can’t predict the minute each rainfall will begin and/or end. Likewise, Daniel could accurately predict that humans will continuously gain knowledge until the end of time. He could not predict when the end of time was going to take place.

I predict the world will come to an end. I predict that before it happens everyone will be scurrying to and fro. Pretty general, if you ask me. Which is why every generation have people predicting that the end was to happen in their own lifetime. What else in scripture made you come to the conclusion that the end of times is near?

[dobman53]

Dodge: Do you look forward to this new world order, or is it a myth?

Dodge should I dig up countless scriptures would your answer be the same. It's all a myth. Absolutely!!

ba2: There is no single verse or chapter, or for that matter individual book. It's a combination of all the books held within the Bible where such thoughts arrise. The Bible if it were just one book your cult conclusion might have more validity. But as your well aware there were many authors who wrote the Bible.

The answer to ( how come? ) is all a matter of faith. Similar to your faith in knowing it will rain. You can't tell me the actual day but you will know the season.

I cant tell you the day of which it might come either, but I do know the season.

As your faith of rain, is similar to knowing the season. So are my reasons as well. If I were to use just one single word it would have to be by simple (faith) alone. Though such reasonings are far more complex , than just simple.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

Okay Dodge, let's start here.

By now you should know that all who speak of a "singularity" (including congress) speak of rapid, pervasive and permanent change on a scale that has never been seen.
The reason that it is unprecedented is because it will be so rapid and may continue for a long period.


In one of the first uses of the term "singularity" in the context of technological progress, Ulam (1958) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity#CITEREFUlam1958) tells of a conversation with John von Neumann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann) about accelerating change:


One conversation centered on the ever accelerating progress of technology and changes in the mode of human life, which gives the appearance of approaching some essential singularity in the history of the race beyond which human affairs, as we know them, could not continue.Whenever technology approaches a barrier, Kurzweil writes, new technologies will cross it. He predicts paradigm shifts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift) will become increasingly common, leading to "technological change so rapid and profound it represents a rupture in the fabric of human history" (Kurzweil 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity#CITEREFKurzweil2001)). Kurzweil believes that the singularity will occur before the end of the 21st century, setting the date at 2045 (Kurzweil 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity#CITEREFKurzweil2005)). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity


Then there is John Smart who's theory: "The Developmental Singularity Hypothesis" proposes that we are to soon transcend the boundaries of space/time.

I would think this alone would be enough to show that we are approaching a time of change on the level of "Biblical proportions".
We will have to get to defining that term of course.
This does not even include the politics and the religious aspect.

It seems to me that in order to show a connection with the current events and the message of the Bible you would have to accept that the message includes but is not limited to a one world government, a one world religion, the emergence of the "Antichrist" and the return of Jesus.

We have evidence of rapid and all pervasive change to soon come upon us in every area of our lives.
This is evident without ever opening a Bible.
Once you open a Bible you then learn why it is happening.
Anyone with any sense does not question that something big is occurring.
The questions are, what is going to happen and why is it happening at all.
These questions do not get answered in our elementary or even college history books.

[truth_child]

i dont ever want to be in volvoled in the new order socsioty never it is full of the devil

[ba2]

...ba2: There is no single verse or chapter, or for that matter individual book. It's a combination of all the books held within the Bible where such thoughts arrise. The Bible if it were just one book your cult conclusion might have more validity. But as your well aware there were many authors who wrote the Bible.

The answer to ( how come? ) is all a matter of faith. Similar to your faith in knowing it will rain. You can't tell me the actual day but you will know the season....
Dob!!

Dob
What have I ever said which would lead you to believe that my conclusion was a “cult conclusion?”

At least you finally admit that this is nothing more than faith. I’m not surprised, even the apostles expected the end to come within their own lifetime. But Jesus himself said you can’t predict the end. Matt: 24:36 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” And said again in Mark 13:31-33 “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.”

In 2 Peter, we are told that the return of Jesus will take people by surprise, that "the day of the Lord will come like a thief."

Peter, also reminds us to view the end times with joy rather than fear (2 Peter 3:12-13).

The only prediction that makes sense is that there will be an end time. No matter how you look at it, specific end of time predictions are not to be believed

There have been numerous end of time predictions every generation throughout written history. Earlier, I gave a website that listed something like a thousand of them. None of them ever came to pass. Many of them were calculated by reading the ancient texts, such as the bible; still, none of them ever came to pass. My advice to anyone, don’t believe anyone who makes an end of time prediction. You have nothing to gain, even if they were right. But when you hear someone talking about the impending end of time, hang on to your wallet.

What difference would it make anyway? If the end comes tonight, or if it comes in a billion years? In the long run, a billion years is nothing more than an instance within the context of “forever”, no difference! This prediction is nothing but a flim-flam con game. Even if any of it were true, there is absolutely nothing to gain by listening to some end time prophesy but there is a lot to lose. The flim-flam artists jump on these beliefs. Gullible believers of an end time prophecy put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of. After all, if the end is near, why keep any of your hard earned cash. May as well give it away.

I think you admitted that you could not really come up with verses which would connect the prophesies with current events meaning that the end is near. . I have read through the entire bible many times and I couldn’t do it either.

[fatherofaking]

If Jesus were to come back today it would take the entire world by surprise.
Who is thinking that could ever happen?
Believe me ba2, i can assure you that no one knows the exact time and it will catch most by complete surprise.
Including yourself it seems.

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. I hope you’re well this morning. I’m on my first cup of coffee, sitting here at my computer waiting for it to kick in before heading out to the health club. I’ve been doing a lot of reading about the “technological singularity,” but of course I’ve only just begun. It seems to me that there is a hint of religion in that theory, and a fear of death.

For example, Ray Kurzweil seems to be obsessed with immortality. I read that the males on his father’s side of the family tend to die young, and that he takes hundreds of nutritional suppliments including intravenous injections once a week in order to, as he said, stretch his natural lifespan until “either genetic therapies, microscopic nanobots, or simply the ability to download one’s mind into a computer will make immortality a reality.” Kurzweil predicts that by 2042 nanotechnology will allow us to “ward off disease and manufacture all the goods we want for pittance.” By then, he says, “aging and poverty may hardly exist and people may not retire or even work in a way that’s recognizable to us.” He also predicts that “nonbiological intelligence will be a billion times more powerful than all the biological intelligence possessed by humanity.”

I’m not discounting Ray Kurzweil’s brilliance. He is absolutely in the genius category. He wrote his first computer program at fifteen, designed the “statistical data” process that was used by IBM researchers, and while still in high school he created pattern recognition software that synthesized the works of classical composers in songs with similar styles. He sold his first company for $100,000 when he was twenty years old, plus royalties; earned a BS in computer science and literature from MIT in 1970, developed the first optical character recognition system in 1974, invented the flatbed scanner and text-to-speech synthesizer, the Kurzweil Reading Machine for the blind, and a dubious system that automatically creates poetry (Kurzweil’s Cybernetic Poet). I’m concerned that poetry and music created by software might in some way harm human creativity, or make it obsolete. If you can get software to create art, music, and poetry; wouldn’t that in some way make human creatitivity obsolete? Just a thought.

So, I’m continuing to read, digest, make myself informed about the ideas related to this “paradigm shift,” and “technological singularity” that you believe will at some time in the near future create changes of “biblical proportions.” But it seems to me that these predictions are only theories by futurists, visionaries, that may or may not unfold in the way they see it. You seem to have no doubt that these things are going to happen as Kurzweil and others predict, though as you probably know some of their predictions from ten years ago have not been fulfilled. I’m curious as to why you look at these men as prophets, who’s vision of the future you have complete confidence in. I can’t agree with you that, as you say, “this alone would be enough to show that we are approaching a time of change on the level of biblical proportions.” These predictions are only scenaries of possible futures by technologically sophisticated people. There are too many variables between now and 2040 to say that all of this is written in stone and will, without any doubt, happen. That would require religious-like faith, similar to those who have followed other modern day prophets who predicted the end of the world that never came, though they also had absolutely no doubt that this was going to happen. You seem to have that kind of faith in these modern day techno-prophets.

You also said that I would have to “accept that the message includes but is not limited to a one world government, a one world religion, the emergence of the Anti-Christ and the return of Jesus.” I don’t accept these things, and I don’t see how all of that is connected to your ideas of a technological singularity or paradigm shift. In fact, I really don’t see where you connect any of this to the Bible. You infer a lot, you seem to have confidence that shows no doubt; but I don’t see any proof that this is anything but imagination, hope, and faith. Your contention that “anyone with any sense does not question that something big is occurring” is rather manipulative. If I don’t agree with you, then I have no sense. That’s a flawed argument, a logical fallacy that is used as a debate tactic.

I will continue to educate myself by researching, reading, thinking and coming to my own conclusions; but as it is right now I don't see any evidence supporting your religious-like faith in this techno-prophecy relating to "paradigm shifts" and "technological singularities." They appear to me to be merely speculation and potential scenaries that may or may not happen, not prophetic declarations from the mind of God that we should all have faith in.

[truth_child]

yes i beleive that when JESUS comes again it will take the entire world by surprise.

[dodge]

TRUTH CHILD: “I believe that when Jesus comes again it will take the entire world by surprise.”

DODGE: “You have the right to believe such things, though I don’t share your views. If it makes you happy to have faith in what I see as a mythological figure that only exists in your mind, you certainly have the right to believe such things and it does no harm to anyone. Go in peace and I hope that what you do from day to day makes this a better world in which to live. Of course, if your preaching instills fear and anxiety in those around you; then this is doing harm and therefore wrong...in my opinion."

[dobman53]

ba2:

True we will not know the day or hour, but we will know the season.

The fig tree blooms in spring. The time of the Locust is from the month of May through September.

Satan's army is called the locust army.

The anti-christ has complete rule for 5 months.

The time of the locust is 5 months in the natural world.

Should I now list every verse and have you then write down ever chapter?

All to then prove what??

My mentioning of cults was only in reply to your saying of Professors having the students learn from one book. You said that sounded to you as a cult. Then I reminded you of there being many books as well as authors. Them one and all having an exacting same conclusion. There is but one God. God doesn't look ahead to see the future, as so many believe. God makes the future to happen as how ever he speaks it into being.

God has know need of what we might concieve as crystal balls to see the future. He makes the future happen. That being the actual case there is no guess work about prophesies as many might believe.

Dob!!

Dob!!

[ba2]

ba2:

True we will not know the day or hour, but we will know the season.

The fig tree blooms in spring. The time of the Locust is from the month of May through September.

Satan's army is called the locust army.

The anti-christ has complete rule for 5 months.

The time of the locust is 5 months in the natural world.

Should I now list every verse and have you then write down ever chapter?

All to then prove what??

My mentioning of cults was only in reply to your saying of Professors having the students learn from one book. You said that sounded to you as a cult. Then I reminded you of there being many books as well as authors. Them one and all having an exacting same conclusion. There is but one God. God doesn't look ahead to see the future, as so many believe. God makes the future to happen as how ever he speaks it into being.

God has know need of what we might concieve as crystal balls to see the future. He makes the future happen. That being the actual case there is no guess work about prophesies as many might believe.

Dob!!

Dob!!

I don't question that there will be an end time. That prediction I actually do believe. But to suggest that we are in the end of times now, or soon will be, is a meaningless prediction to me. It is pretty worthless. It only servers to help the hucksters take advantage of the gullible. You can find thousands of authors who have been taught that the end is near, so they go on to repeat what they have been taught. You can find thousands who would state the opposite.

I choose to look at this logically. And yes, I do come to this conclusion after years of close scriptural study. There have been thousands of end of time predictions in the past, none of them have come to pass. There is no reason to believe this one. If it is the first of the thousands to be true, great, we will soon see the end. I had this same discussion about 30 or so years ago. Supposedly the end was very near. Like you, they were convinced that they were interpreting scripture correctly. When it didn't come to pass, they simply said they miscalculated, and pushed the timeframe up a bit. Very gullible. Eventually, someone will finally get it right. I just see no reason to think it will be this one. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter if it happens tomorrow, or a billions of years from now. So why even bring it up, unless one is trying to flim-flam the gullible?

[dodge]

Failed prophecies:

Matthew 16:28, “…there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Matthew 24:34, “…this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

Jesus and Paul believed that the end would come sometime in their own future, during the first century. It didn’t happen.

Around the year 90, Saint Clement 1 predicted that the world would end at any moment.

Second Century: Prophets of the Montanist movement predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetime and establish the New Jerusalsm in the city of Pepuza in Asia Minor.

The year 365: Hilory of Poitiers announced the end would would happen that year.

The year 500: Hippolytus and Sextus Julius Africanus predicted Armageddon would occur around this time.

The year 968: The German emperor Otto III interpreted the end of the world following an eclipse.

The year 992: It was thought that the juxtaposition of Good Friday with the Feast of the Annunciation would be the event that would bring forth the Antichrist and the End Times. There was a lot of panic.

The year 1000, January 1st: Many European Christians predicted the end of the world on this date. Christian armies attacked Pagan countries in order to convert them to Christianity before the end by force. Many Christians had given up all their possessions to the Church in anticipation of the end.

The years 1005-1006: Famine throughout Eurpose was seen as a sign of the End Times.

1033: Believing it to be the 1000th anniversary of the death and resurrection of Jesus, the second coming was thought to be near.

1147: Gerard of Poehlde believed that the millennium actually began in 306 during Constantine’s reign, so the end of the world was expected in 1306.

1179: Based on the alignment of many planets, John of Toledo predicte the end of the world during 1186.

1205: Joachim of Fiore predicte in 1190 that the Antichrist was already in the world, and that King Richard of England would dcfeat him. The Millennium would began sometime before 1205.

1284: Pope Innocent III computed this date by adding 666 years to the date that Islam was founded.

1346: The black plague was believed to be a prelude to the end of the world.

1496: This was about 1500 years after the birth of “Jesus,” and some mystics in the 15th century predicted that the millennium would begin during that year.

1524: Astrologers predected the world would end because of a world wide flood.

1533: Melchior Hoffman predicted that Jesus’ return would happen a millennium and a half after the date of his execution (1533).

1669: The Old Believers in Russia believed that the end of the world would occur in this year. Twenty thousand burned themselves to death between 1669 and 1690 to protect themselves from the Antichrist.

1689: Benjamin Keach predicted the end of the world for that year.

1736: William Whitson predicted a great flood similar to Noah’s for October 13 of that year.

1792: The Shakers believed this was the year that the world would end.

1794: The founder of Methodism, Charles Wesley, thought Doomsday would be that year.

1843: William Miller, founder of the Millerite movement, predicted that Jesus would come on March the 21st. A lot of Christians believed him.

1844: When Jesus didn’t return, Miller predicted this new date. Many Christians sold all that they owned, quit their jobs and prepared for the second coming. Nothing happened; the day came and went without incident.

1850: Ellen White, founder of the Seven Day Adventists made many predictions about the end of the world. They all failed.

1881: Mother Shipton, a 16th century mystic, predicted the end of the world on this year.

1891: Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon church said Jesus would return within 56 years (before 1891).

1914: Jehovah’s Witnesses taught that this year was in the book of Daniel, Chapter 4.

1919: Meteorologist Albert Porta predicted that the conjunction of 6 planets would generate a magnetic current that would cause the sun to explode and engulf the Earth on the 17th of December.

1936: Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, predicted the Day of the Lord would happen sometime in 1936. When that failed, he set a new date…1975.

1940 or 1941: Leonard Sale-Harrison, a Bible teacher from Australia, prophesied the end of the world sometime between 1940 and 1941.

1948: Some Christians believed that since the State of Isreal was founded during this year, the second coming of Jesus was not far away.

1953: David Davidson predicted the end of the world in August of that year in his book, “The Great Pyramid, Its Diving Message.”

1957: The Watchtower Magazine quoted Mihran Ask, a pastor from California, who said that Armageddon will sweep the world! Millions of persons will perish in its flames and the land will be scorched.

1959: Flroence Houteff, of the Branch Davidians, propesied that the Kingdom of David would be established on the 22nd of April. Followers expected to die, be resurrected, and transferred to Heaven. Many sold their possessions in anticipation of the End Time.

1960: Piazzi Smyth, past astronomer royal of Scotland, wrote a book in 1860 where he concluded that the millennium would start before the end of 1960.

1967: A lot of Christians believed that when the Israeli Army captured all of Jerusalem the rapture would occur quickly.

And the list just keeps getting longer and longer.

[ba2]

I think you were reading from the short list!

You listed one that I mentioned, "Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, predicted the Day of the Lord would happen sometime in 1936. When that failed, he set a new date…1975." You can add that when 1975 passed, he said it would happen in the 1980"s. But in November 1980 he said that we bought some time by electing Ronald Reagan. His last prophecy came true, it was the end of time for him in 1986 - he died!

[dodge]

I know, ba2...I didn't have the space, time or interest to come up with a complete list of prophesies and predictions about how the world is going to end soon. One of the most popular years now is 2012 where some latter day prophets tell us there will be a conjunction of the Winter Solstice with the crossing point of the Galactic Equator and the Ecliptic. They say the ancient Mayan calader lends proof that the world is going to end on the 21st of December, 2012 at exactly 11:11 a.m. GMT. There are, of course, many, many more predictions and prophesies other than this one...but 2012 seems to be the most popular. Just Google 2012. There's even a movie coming out. It's the apocalypse du jour.

[fatherofaking]

I am not making any predictions.
All i am doing is looking at the obvious.

The Bible speaks of a one world religion, a one world government and the return of the Christ.
Politicians all over the world are currently calling for a new world order through a one world government headed by the United Nations..
The U.N. clearly has as part of it's agenda the intent to reveal what they call the Christ.
There is a paradigm shift predicted to happen soon by some of the worlds leading scientists.
A shift that could mean an understanding of space/time itself.
Along with what i think is ample evidence to show the integrity of the message of the Bible i decided that i had enough evidence to warrant further investigation.

The two of you, Dodge and ba2 are not taking what i am saying seriously.
You think i am just making some foolish prediction.
Ba2, you say you know that an end is coming one day, so look at the things i have presented objectively and then maybe we can learn something.

Dodge, you need to just look beyond your own nose.
All of the events that are playing out in the world are a result of internal processes generated through archetypes that have been used for thousands of years.
It is all orchestrated through the use of symbols and archetypes.

You can do what you like with what i just said but i am no fool.
I know many of the things you claim to know Dodge.
You did not get your understanding out of a vacuum.
You have had your teachers just like the rest of us.

You claim to be the truth only half of what is actually true and mock the other half as fantasy.
For most of the world it is you who live in an internal fantasy with no objective foot in reality.
It is either that or you are here to purposely draw people away from the truth of Jesus and his resurrection.
You wouldn't do something like that though would you?

If that is not the case then lets look at the evidence objectively and see if we can come to some conclusions.
I can assure you that i would like to do just that.
This is an enormous subject with all kinds of useless and outright bad information out there.
Most people are at best misinformed and at worst completely uninformed about what is happening in the world.
I would like to do my part to be informed and inform others.
I am hoping that is what we are all doing here.

[ba2]

I am not making any predictions.
All i am doing is looking at the obvious.
Sorry, the only obvious to me is that there have been thousands of these end of time predictions in the past. Every generation had them. And every group that followed them were convinced that they saw the signs. I have absolutely no reason to believe it this time.
The Bible speaks of a one world religion, a one world government and the return of the Christ.
Politicians all over the world are currently calling for a new world order through a one world government headed by the United Nations..
This has been a dream of probably every society since the beginning of time, so it isn’t much of a prophesy. Every culture has attempted to gain power over their neighbors. And every few generations has seen a new world order. Whether it was Alexander, Caesar, Attila, The Holy Roman Empire, Britain, The USA, etc. Who will be next, maybe China? With the ability to pretty much destroy each other, there is more of a movement to work together and tolerate our differences. The UN was formed to keep us from blowing each other up.
The U.N. clearly has as part of it's agenda the intent to reveal what they call the Christ.
Really? The UN has an agenda to reveal the Christ? This is about as silly as the end of time predictions. Where did you get that one?

There is a paradigm shift predicted to happen soon by some of the worlds leading scientists.
A shift that could mean an understanding of space/time itself.
For your information, Star Trek is fiction. The space/time theories are nowhere near a reality. Maybe someday it will be a possibility but for now many scientists feel they are beyond the limitations of physics. As far as a paradigm shift. We have that every few generations. Science can really be good!

Along with what i think is ample evidence to show the integrity of the message of the Bible i decided that i had enough evidence to warrant further investigation.
I looked at the END OF TIME evidence and concluded that it was a waste of time. Further, there is no point to it, even if you happen to be right, which I find highly unlikely.

The two of you, Dodge and ba2 are not taking what i am saying seriously.
You think i am just making some foolish prediction.
Ba2, you say you know that an end is coming one day, so look at the things i have presented objectively and then maybe we can learn something.
I don’t know Dodge, but you are right, I am not taking your interpretation seriously. I have seen too many people get hurt by these beliefs. Very nice people working hard for a huckster getting flim-flamed out of their money. It is the ultimate scam, they even get you to work hard at recruiting others to join the cause, again, more money/power for the leaders. Yes, the end is coming. The sun will eventually burn out and the earth will cease to exist. But that won’t likely happen for a few billion years.

Dodge, you need to just look beyond your own nose.
All of the events that are playing out in the world are a result of internal processes generated through archetypes that have been used for thousands of years.
It is all orchestrated through the use of symbols and archetypes.

You can do what you like with what i just said but i am no fool.
I know many of the things you claim to know Dodge.
You did not get your understanding out of a vacuum.
You have had your teachers just like the rest of us.

You claim to be the truth only half of what is actually true and mock the other half as fantasy.
For most of the world it is you who live in an internal fantasy with no objective foot in reality.
It is either that or you are here to purposely draw people away from the truth of Jesus and his resurrection.
You wouldn't do something like that though would you?

If that is not the case then lets look at the evidence objectively and see if we can come to some conclusions.
I can assure you that i would like to do just that.
This is an enormous subject with all kinds of useless and outright bad information out there.
I think this section was for Dodge. But I will make a simple comment. I don’t say this with any malice but, yes, I do think you are gullible. You are falling for one of the oldest flim-flams in history. You say that Dodge mocks your beliefs. What would you expect? He has been asking throughout this thread for examples of scripture which leads you to believe that the end time prophecies are related to the present. You give a very vague Daniel 12:4. Which is so vague it could mean just about anything. One should not try to defend their faith with arguments that are so patently opposed to reason that the faith is made to look ridiculous.

Most people are at best misinformed and at worst completely uninformed about what is happening in the world.
I would like to do my part to be informed and inform others.
I am hoping that is what we are all doing here.
I love history, it helps us see when we make a mistake again.

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. Another day of snow here in New England. I’m getting tired of winter, and am really looking forward to spring.

You’ve said that “politicians all over the world are currently calling for a new world order through a one world government headed by the United Nations.” If this is true, could you give me some direct quotes by these "politicians" all over the world? What are they saying? Who are they? I hope you don’t mind if I ask you questions. It’s the only way that I can find out what proof you have that your statements are true, and what convinced you.

Again, you said that the United Nations has an agenda and “intent to reveal what they call the Christ.” Who and what organization within the U.N. is working towards “revealing The Christ” (whatever that is)?

Another statement that you’re making is that there is a “paradigm shift predicted to happen soon by some of the world’s leading scientists.” Besides Vernor Vinge, Raymond Kurzweil and this small group of techno transhumanist singulartarians preaching some sort of technocalyptic rapture, what “leading scientists” are also, as you say, predicting this “paradigm shift?” Kurzweil is a brilliant inventor, but he only has an undergraduate degree in computer science and literature, no advanced degrees in science other than honorary. As far as his predictions, he once claimed to have invented software that was capable of analyzing the stock market trends with AI based tools, and that this analysis would result in risk-free quick-return investment in stocks. I wouldn’t call him “one of the leading scientist in the world.” The idea that superhuman intelligence will happen at some point in the future as a consequence of techno progress is only a theory, and provides limitless material to spin science fiction stories. Very entertaining, but certainly not prophetic.

In Ray Kurzweil’s theory, the “Sixth Epoch” will start when humans will be transformed into cyborgs fully immersed in virtual reality that’s contained in advanced computers. “Eventually all inanimate matter on the Earth will be restructured to form useful computer substrate and at some point radiate out from the Earth in all directions saturating the solar system, then the Milky Way and eventually the entire universe with intelligence by converting unstructured matter into smart matter that supports thinking. Countless celestial bodies across the universe will be totally converted into computer substrate.”

Kurzweil goes on to say in “The Singularity is Near,” that the entire universe will “wake up,” where these super intelligent cybernetic machines will convert all of the matter in the universe into one massive computer, radiating out into space in all directions from Earth, breaking down whole planets, moons and meteoroids and reassembling them into giant computers. Kurzweil says that the “waking up” of the universe could be accomplished sometime before the year 2199 (depending of course on these machines circumventing the speed of light). Once this is done, the entire universe will be controlled and ruled by AI/human hybirds who will rise above the laws of physics, travel interdimensionally, and obtain true immortality. What will Kurzweil and his cybernetic race be then? Immortal gods, rulers of not only the universe; but of all dimensions? Doesn’t this sound a bit odd to you, sort of Borg-like where resistence is futile? And you believe all that Kurzweil says with absolute faith? Is Singulartarianism a cult?

[jargon631]

you said "Eternal life is just around the corner folks...." Not likely in our generation. But a few celebreties had their bodies frozen so they could be brought back to life sometime in the future. So, some people think it can happen.

unfortunataly, the thawing out process would rupture the cell wells and make the "corpsicle" unrevivable...fd

[jargon631]

Supposedly the end was very near. Like you, they were convinced that they were interpreting scripture correctly. When it didn't come to pass, they simply said they miscalculated, and pushed the timeframe up a bit. Very gullible.

you have just described the founding of the adventist church...fd

[fatherofaking]

Sorry, the only obvious to me is that there have been thousands of these end of time predictions in the past. Every generation had them. And every group that followed them were convinced that they saw the signs. I have absolutely no reason to believe it this time.

I keep trying to tell you that i am not making any predictions.

The UN was formed to keep us from blowing each other up.

The purpose of the UN is to create a one world government.
You can read it for yourself if i can find it.



Really? The UN has an agenda to reveal the Christ? This is about as silly as the end of time predictions. Where did you get that one?
I already showed this information.
The Christ will come through the Lucis Trust and will be introduced to the world through the UN.


The Reappearance of the Christ

This is a time of preparation not only for a new civilisation and culture in a new world order, but also for the coming of a new spiritual dispensation.
Humanity is not following an uncharted course. There is a divine Plan in the Cosmos of which we are a part. At the end of an age human resources and established institutions seem inadequate to meet world needs and problems. At such a time the advent of a Teacher, a spiritual leader or Avatar, is anticipated and invoked by the masses of humanity in all parts of the world.
Today the reappearance of the World Teacher, the Christ, is expected by millions, not only by those of Christian faith but by those of every faith who expect the Avatar under other names -- the Lord Maitreya, Krishna, Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the Bodhisattva.
Glamour and distortion surround this central fact of divine response to human need. This is inevitable but unimportant. The fact of transition into a new age is important. Preparation by men and women of goodwill is needed to introduce new values for living, new standards of behaviour, new attitudes of non-separateness and cooperation, leading to right human relations and a world at peace. The coming world Teacher will be mainly concerned, not with the result of past error and inadequacy, but with the requirements of a new world order and with the reorganisation of the social structure.
World Goodwill distributes educational and informative literature on these themes. A world prayer, the Great Invocation, is distributed on a worldwide scale in many languages and dialects. World Goodwill also cooperates in organising the annual World Invocation Day, with special focus on the use of the Great Invocation worldwide.
World Goodwill is an accredited non-governmental organisation with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations. It maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised Agencies and with a wide range of national and international non-governmental organisations. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust, which is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social Council. For your information, Star Trek is fiction. The space/time theories are nowhere near a reality. Maybe someday it will be a possibility but for now many scientists feel they are beyond the limitations of physics. As far as a paradigm shift. We have that every few generations. Science can really be good!
You are not very informed ba2.
I am afraid you may have to sit this one out.


I looked at the END OF TIME evidence and concluded that it was a waste of time. Further, there is no point to it, even if you happen to be right, which I find highly unlikely.

No point?

I don’t know Dodge, but you are right, I am not taking your interpretation seriously. I have seen too many people get hurt by these beliefs. Very nice people working hard for a huckster getting flim-flamed out of their money. It is the ultimate scam, they even get you to work hard at recruiting others to join the cause, again, more money/power for the leaders. Yes, the end is coming. The sun will eventually burn out and the earth will cease to exist. But that won’t likely happen for a few billion years.


You are back to this again.
This argument is a waste of time.
There is none of that going on here, we are just having a discussion.

I think this section was for Dodge. But I will make a simple comment. I don’t say this with any malice but, yes, I do think you are gullible. You are falling for one of the oldest flim-flams in history. You say that Dodge mocks your beliefs. What would you expect? He has been asking throughout this thread for examples of scripture which leads you to believe that the end time prophecies are related to the present. You give a very vague Daniel 12:4. Which is so vague it could mean just about anything. One should not try to defend their faith with arguments that are so patently opposed to reason that the faith is made to look ridiculous.

I told you that i will get back to scripture and Dodge knows that as well.
You are just making excuses since you seem to have nothing else to say on the subject.


I love history, it helps us see when we make a mistake again.
If you were really interested in being informed you would make some effort to learn something other than the same nonsense you keep repeating.

[fatherofaking]

You’ve said that “politicians all over the world are currently calling for a new world order through a one world government headed by the United Nations.” If this is true, could you give me some direct quotes by these "politicians" all over the world? What are they saying? Who are they?
Here is the Sarkozy speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkpHmjgg7xU




Here is Kissinger in his own words.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/12/opinion/edkissinger.php

Here is Gordon Brown.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i401zq4gx4DHyS97JTNbQmF_Hqbg

Here is Blair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxm5eKSZNRs



The list goes on they just get harder to find.


Again, you said that the United Nations has an agenda and “intent to reveal what they call the Christ.” Who and what organization within the U.N. is working towards “revealing The Christ” (whatever that is)?

I just posted the info again in my post to ba2.



You can belittle people like Kurzweil and the others if you like.
They are very well respected in their field.
They all believe that a major paradigm shift is coming.
Some think it's impact will be less than others and some think it will take longer than others but they all agree it is going to happen.
Kurzweil is the one to listen to when it comes to the timing i think.
I like what John Smart is saying as well about the possible change in space/time.

I do not agree with everything they all have to say and i am certainly not involved in any cult.
You continue to push the limits of accusation for what purpose, to make me look bad or to make you look better?
I am just wanting to learn.
I would hope you could be more constructive with your criticism next time.

[dobman53]

ba2:

In one of your post's posted earlier you provided a list of failed predictions, which then Dodge extened even further. The very first mentioned in your list ba2 had you saying Jesus had it figured all wrong as well.

Sorry in having to tell you but your flat out wrong. As Jesus himself said not even he know's the day nor hour, but only the father does know's the time.

This leads me further in saying that truthfully no man knows the day or hour. But we can know the season!!

In each of yours and Dodges post's this further high lights that no man will know the day.

Yet here's a point you might be a miss on. Each of thoughs predictions one and all didn't have the luxury of knowing the things we do know today.

I'm here going to make an illustration.

Here the other day I mentioned Galileo, and how the church was dead set against his new findings. Here I need to add that the Catholic church for the most part has always found common grounds with science. Now certainly I can imagine your distain with such a statement, but The Catholic church as always had and still does fund Astronomy based sciences. They actually do own and fully funded some of the finest world class telescopes in the world.

The Catholic church during Galileo's time fully believed.

The Heavens Had Nothing What So Ever In Common With Earth, Either In Substance Or Appearance, Heavenly Bodies Were Perfect, Changles Orbs Of Devine Substance, While Terrestrial Things Were Rough, Irregular, Changable, And Corrupt.

The View Of Earthy Things Were Changable Because They Were Made Of Four Elements, Earth, Air, Fire, And Water. Mixed Like Ingredients In A Shaken Bottle, They Spontaneously Rearranged Themselves According To Their Natural Tendencies: Earth And Water Tended To Sink, And Air And Fire Rose....

These thoughts of the Catholic church were not just their thoughts alone, as these thoughts were the thoughs of the majority of all scientist's during thoughs times. The two above paragraphs that I capitalized each word are actually the words of Aristotle's who wrote thoughs same words as above in apx. 400 BC. So when we accuse the Catholic's of being backwards in thinking they were in reality doing their best at being most proficient in keeping up with the times.

Here's where I'm leading up to in this post. The real realities of it all is in the marching forward with knowledge. Certain things from the past have their rightly place in determening the mistakes know to all from the past. Though knowing such mistakes compounds the the forth rightness of the need in being far more carefull in our handeling of knowledge at present. So in answere yes it is definately true in your mentioning of past mistakes. Yet I do hope you realise which side of the fence your now standing on. By that I'm meaning the side of the fence the Catholic church once stood.

How's that I'm sure you would ask?? Quite simply by your holding on to past conclusions, your actually setting yourself up to where you'll not be willing to except that there is more knowledge at hand, and these past drawn conclusions will find you indeed standing on the wrong side of the fence when certain findings are presented.

Dob!!

PS..I should make note that my post is not dirrectly pointed at you, but more of a general statement for all. (Dodge catch my drift)

[dobman53]

I would like to add something about these predictions of some of these men who FOAK does often mentions.

Such men are usually driven solely by what they presume to be intellectual speculations and this in turn is the force that then leads them to further speculations.

Beings I have interests in certain sciences, I to have intellectual speculations as well, though such speculations are not the driving force that does then leads me. Yet they are of interest just the same.

So I figured I might add my two cents worth about the Mayan Callendar and this 2012 date of Dec. 21st. It just so happens this date has a strange alignment with the earth being in line with the sun them both being in perfect alignment pointing straight at the galactic center of own galaxy. This event happens once every 24800 years.

The Myans predict an end, but not neccessarily a final end. There believing a new age to then begin. It just so happens that the earth while traveling around the galactic plain goes up and down like on a merry go round with this up and down motion. On Dec.21, 2012 it's speculated that the earth will rise above this galactic plain during these up and down percession.

It's further believed that this event could cause a magnetic shift with our north and south poles, as scientist right now have detected that the magnetic forces are at present lessoning faster than ever before imagined. Should we go through such a shift in magnetic poles it's believed at the tipping point we might not have our pole magnetic force's in opperation for a while which in turn would leave the Earth wide open to plasma flares from the sun. We on earth would then be subjected to the equivalent of constant radiation should the sun flair up with these ejections of plasma.

Here I do want it to be known that in the knowing of such things, I stand behind know date as to being the actual end times. Though I'll still stand behind my notions where I've stated we will know the season's.

As I do enjoy such conversations, and I do ask that none of us get our feathers to fuffled in the trading back and forth of ideas.

Dob!!

[dobman53]

One more Thing!! Here I'm having the feelings where I need to fill someof you in.

I have discust with many of these modern day fake preachers. They talk all kinds of holy, but in all actuallity at most there total combined knowledge added together would amount to absolutely nothing. They have just two desire's. first to appear as holy as possible in desiring praise when ever it's offered. Second they love your money more than they love God.

I only ask you not pitch me in with the rest of them, as those shoes certainly don't fit my feet at all. As their shoe's are very narrow minded, having nothing but sharp points with nothing of any real substance behind those phoney pointed ends.

All is well, none the less...

Dob!!

[ba2]

FOF
Lucis Trust is a Christian non-profit trust based in New York with offices in Europe. Today it has around 6,000 members and an estimated annual revenue of $600,000. World Goodwill is an activity of the Lucis Trust, which like many other social service type of organizations, is on the Roster of the United Nations Economic and Social Council. The Lucis Trust does not speak for the UN, they are just one small group among many. Yes, a “World Goodwill” objective is to prepare the world for the Reappearance of the Christ but their prime objective is to improve human relations in the world.

I think you read too much into what these people are saying. No one seems to be calling for a one government world. After listening to the French president, I am more inclined to support the new world order he is referring to. Actually, he seems to be going against the thought of one world government. I guess I just can’t see a connection with this and the biblical prophesies. I think you have quite an imagination.

French president Sarkozy is calling for world cooperation to end terrorism and war in the middle east and other places in the world. He said the world must prevent Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons. There will be no peace in the world without respect for national identities, without respect for religious beliefs, without respect for culture. We cannot force everyone to believe and think the same things. This was the context of his speech and I thought it was great. This is the new world order he was referring to. I heard nothing in his speech which should have caused anyone to be concerned. This was a very good speech. Are you saying this is a bad thing?

Henry A. Kissinger – Yes, I remember him well. An old man who couldn’t get us out of the quagmire, but got credit for doing so anyway. I can’t recall Kissinger ever being involved with the UN and I don’t believe he has ever been elected to any public office. He has served as Sec of State but that was many years ago. It has been a long time since he has been in a position of power, or even worked for a living. So he has a lot of time on his hands to write down some of his profound thoughts. He speaks for himself. Nevertheless, when he talks about a “New world order” he is speaking of a need for dramatic change in world political thought and a possible change in the balance of power. He is not part of the “New World Order” (conspiracy theory) in which a group is conspiring to rule the world via world government. A new world order, according to Kissinger, means all countries must learn to cooperate under some basic rules. He supports the Bretton Woods Accord, which says something about his age. The Bretton Woods system was a plan with an obligation for each country to adopt a monetary policy that maintained the exchange rate of its currency within a fixed value, plus or minus one percent, in terms of gold. Money would have an international value put on it. Kissinger might have some things to say, but I don’t put much stock in it, not anymore.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown certainly does not want Britain to give up its sovereignty. I remember him saying that the alliance between Britain and the U.S. can and must provide leadership in building a stronger and more just international order. What he wants is a new world order which places the USA and Britain at the lead. He has a very low approval rating in Britain.

Your Blair youtube was hard to listen to with all the propaganda thrown in. Why didn’t you give a link to the actual speech?

[oneway]

One more Thing!! Here I'm having the feelings where I need to fill someof you in.

I have discust with many of these modern day fake preachers. They talk all kinds of holy, but in all actuallity at most there total combined knowledge added together would amount to absolutely nothing. They have just two desire's. first to appear as holy as possible in desiring praise when ever it's offered. Second they love your money more than they love God.

I only ask you not pitch me in with the rest of them, as those shoes certainly don't fit my feet at all. As their shoe's are very narrow minded, having nothing but sharp points with nothing of any real substance behind those phoney pointed ends.

All is well, none the less...

Dob!!



Dobman53, I do have to say, I find your post very ironic indeed. I find it very amusing as a matter of fact, seeing that you study under a teacher named Arnold Murray, whom is clearly off his rocker when it comes to the Bible. It's not my intentions to derail this thread, so I won't. I just wanted to let you know that I needed a good laugh to start the day off right. It's a good thing I read this post, lol.

[ba2]

ba2:

In one of your post's posted earlier you provided a list of failed predictions, which then Dodge extened even further. The very first mentioned in your list ba2 had you saying Jesus had it figured all wrong as well...


...The Catholic church during Galileo's time fully believed...

...by your holding on to past conclusions, your actually setting yourself up to where you'll not be willing to except that there is more knowledge at hand, and these past drawn conclusions will find you indeed standing on the wrong side of the fence when certain findings are presented.

I gave a list which listed thousands of failed end of time predictions. I never said Jesus had it wrong, but some people use his words to come to that conclusion. In fact I did say he specifically reminded us that no one could predict the end time. I still agree with that statement. Some jump on that and say they don't predict, the bible does. I say that is a stretch. My point is that there is no point to any end of time prediction. I ask you, what is the purpose of telling people, for example, that the end of time will happen in 2012?

In 1616 the Catholic Church ordered Galileo not to "hold, teach, and defend in any manner whatsoever, in words or in print" the theory of Copernicus.. Later Galileo was imprisoned. As I’m sure you know, the Church condemned Copernicus's work as heretical. Although the church was going to some reform, you had to follow the Roman Church's scientific views or you might be subject to an inquisition.

FYI - Although I don't go along with much of the dogma of the Catholic church, I am not in any way, anti-Catholic. In many ways, I see it much better than many of the Fundamentalist Baptist churches I have attended.

The conclusions I now have came after much biblical study. I am quite certain that the bible has been altered and corrupted many times since it was first put down in writing some thousands of years ago and because of this, I now see the bible as being full of contradictions. It takes a lot of imagination to read everything as being 100% literally accurate. Even so, one can still get the critical message if we are not stuck in literalism. I now read scripture by focusing on the words of Jesus and interpret the entire bible through his teachings. I never see this done in a fundamentalist church, which I generally attend.

[ba2]

...I have discust with many of these modern day fake preachers. They talk all kinds of holy, but in all actuallity at most there total combined knowledge added together would amount to absolutely nothing. They have just two desire's. first to appear as holy as possible in desiring praise when ever it's offered. Second they love your money more than they love God...

Dob!!

This is what I have been trying to say from the begining. Flim-flam hucksters, nothing more. Some of the sincere ones were flim-flamed by those hucksters and are unknowingly continuing with the lies.

[dobman53]

ba2: My dear friend it's beginning to appear to me where you've gone as far as to perhaps intentionally do your upmost in evading the thrust of my intentions.

My even mentioning the 2012 date was only in refurance to misticaly misplaced ideas about which others might find an interest.

Should it ever come to mind I did mention awhile back that I'm certainly no date setter, and such intensions have not here recently come to have changed. No!! none what so ever. This some how or another through the correspoundance seems to have escaped you completely. Perhaps this is all in error on my part in not expressing that thought more completely.

None the less you have done an admirable job in making your own points known quite well. Being as such, the case I should put forth at this moment is simply this one world order of a man refured to by many as the Devil himself will not appear as solely a Christian Messiah. He will be a Messiah figure encompassing all religeon's. He'll be the Budda to some, the great Montey to the Moselums, ect. ect.

This era will be whisked in with overwhelming adornment from both the political as well as religeous beliefs of all mankind. I asure you of this, where as far as I am concerned you do have every right affordable to precieve everything to your own personal likings. Should it be at this time you find nothing to cause you any such alarm why that's perfectly alright.

Yet I feel I must remind you that minds do change with the passings of time, as in my past and I'm sure yours as well wisdom broadens when we have grown the older. Within that our emotional growth increases as well, beings where all eventually to one day awaken to seeing vertually all our views from an entirely different perspective.

Dob!!

PS... My good friend Oneway has the knack for popping in at the most in appropriate moments to demonstrate his total disregaurd for anything of substance. As we all did wittness his childish attempts at laughter first hand. Poor guy!! as he is amongst those who believe's the world is only 6000 years old. No matter what the amounts of efforts I have afforded him in hopes of showing him his utter lack of intelligence. He still to this day insists he has no common sence what so ever, so I've been as of late forced to oblige him in all his efforts to accomplish such goals of absolute foolishness.

[dobman53]

ba2: I'm right now having to go off today with a list of things to do. I'll be back latter and I'll have something further of which I'm hoping to touch on more completely.

Dob!!

[oneway]

as he is
amongst those who believe's the world is only 6000 years old

Dobman53, at least get your facts straight. The earth since man was put on it, is more than likely 12 to 16,000 yrs old, not 6 thousand.

[ba2]

ba2: My dear friend it's beginning to appear to me where you've gone as far as to perhaps intentionally do your upmost in evading the thrust of my intentions...

Dob,
I assure you, not intentionally. It is so much easier to talk with someone face to face. We have been writing quite a bit and perhaps there has been a lack of focus. Try not to read anything I write as being malicious or purposely evasive. Come back with a direct question if you think I evaded it.

My comment regarding 2012 wasn’t meant to suggest you were making a prediction. It was meant in a general sense that no one should ever try to predict the end of time, I appreciate that you are not a date setter. But, 2012 just happens to be one of the dates that is being thrown around at the moment. You suggested that we can know the “season” of the end time, suggesting, I think, it will be soon. I say we can’t even predict that and simply ask, what difference does it make? What purpose does it serve for anyone (not meaning you specifically) to preach an end of time prophesy? I see absolutely no connection with biblical end of time prophecies and today but, that doesn't mean it won't happen today. I say it is only a scare tactic originally designed to fleece the flock.

Regarding the RCC. I do feel they have come a long way. Unfortunately, too many are still stuck on the Inquisition and obvious corruption centuries ago.

I too have many things to do and will be away. Got to prepare for a presentation. I’m thinking this topic is fizzling out anyway.

[dodge]

Good Evening, Father of a King. Thank you for sharing your perspective on the United Nations, the “New World Order,” and the “technological singularity.” I don’t interpret these things the way you do, so I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree. It was an interesting discussion nonetheless, and I’ve learned a lot by engaging in this exchange of ideas with you. I’ll see you in the threads.

Will (Dodge)

[dodge]

Hi ba2 --

I completely agree with your assessment of the Lucis Trust and World Goodwill. I was involved in Theosophy for many years back in the seventies and eighties, having studied Blavatsy’s “Isis Unveiled” and “Secret Doctrines” thoroughly and later Bailey‘s works. Like Blavatsky, Alice Bailey claimed that her books and knowledge came from an “ascended master” through channeling. When I was interested in mysticism, they were good sources and I enjoyed them very very much. Their value was, at least for me, in introducing me to the language of mysticism and as sources for further research. I even studied Aleister Crowley later, along with other magikal traditions. When I discovered depth psychology through Carl Jung and others, it put everything into perspective for me. Since then, I’ve evolved onto other things that have much more meaning in my life. But I’m grateful for Blavatsky, Bailey, Crowley, Jung and so many others through the years for their insight and knowledge that took me along my path to what it is I understand now. They were like helpful guides along the way.

When I hear people attempt to put Alice Bailey and her organization into the plot to create some nefarious New World Order, along with random quotes by noted personalities who have mentioned a “New World Order,” adding in some sci-fi techno predictions about a “paradigm shift,” and tying it all together with biblical End Times, the Mayan Calander, alignments of orbits and galactic angles I see a mind that is searching for meaning and patterns to explain what it’s all about to them. Perhaps fear of death, anxiety about the future, and a need to point to someone or something to blame for it all underlies such belief in secret societies conspiring to rule the world and making slaves of them. Of course, at the bottom is this belief in black and white, evil and good, Satan and Christ, a cosmic struggle for our souls. In the end Jesus will arrive to save us all. Well, not all of us of course, only Christians, those who accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and savior of humanity. The souls of everyone else, non-Christians, will either be tortured for eternity in a sea of fire and brimstone or they will be vaporized once and for all. It’s either their way or complete annihilation for all outsiders. Amazing what myths people believe.

[fatherofaking]

Again Dodge you misrepresented what i said.
Congratulations on your self proclaimed defeat of my ideas.
You have a problem Dodge that is very difficult to contend with.
You have no desire to learn any longer.
It seems to me that you are here simply to try and make us all look bad.
I think you should take another look at who you are Dodge.
I can tell you now that you are not someone that i want to spend any time with.
Your belittling attitude pushes people away.

[dobman53]

Dodge: While your last post's weren't addressed to me. I felt I should like to mention That I fully understand the points you've made concerning the above listed person's, and again I realize that through their combinded learned refurance's you have in essance came to be whom you now are today. As you spoke you made it clear that this was an actually growing proccess of acumulation's, There by making it the more obvious that such understandings didn't just all of a sudden happen one sunny afternoon.

My personal understandings while down some completely different avenues, were arrived at in a very similar fashion, that being several decades in the making. Though I'm sure you might hold out that your studied mind set's were by far the superior. I can only add that I as well have explored the thinkings of highly regaurded men myself. Though I've noticed persons similar to yourself do often believe that someone as myself has only been exposed to the thumpings of some radical Bible maniac. Not even close I must say in defence as on such implication's ones as myself can view similarly of men held high in your regaurds,, to then accuse the same.

Though be done with any such nonsence, as It has no reguards of interest.

My point's at present are to now come back to this new world order topic. First and foremost I should state that to what extent if any, do we now regaurd such a political system. There realizing the first time in mans history there could actually be just one lone system? In or history we've all seen written where several kingdoms through the ages have laid clame to world wide authority, but we all know their kingdoms were only of their known worlds not being the entire earth.

Though this time around we might take a moment to concider just what would be the implications should a total dominance of the entire world arrive? Should we do any research into world history, we need not read to far before we came to realize all previous attempts had all turned out for the worse. Just from my statements alone I can visualize where some might just as easily wipe away any such delusions as easily as swiping dandriff from their shoulder. There by concluding there's nothing in regards to any actual substance to be discussed.

But I say hold on there partner!! We might very well be headed down that dreaded road leading straight to Hell, and I do mean an actual living breathing hell on earth senario. If you do stop and think for a moment, were all aware of how power corrupts. Well absolute power corrupts all the way to the bone corrupt. Imagine one of the Ceasar's of ancient Rome sitting as the chairman of the board of this new world order. They were once all hailed as God's in their times, at least wise to begin with. But in short order they all went as corrupt as hell acting as if they were in reality living breathing Gods.

Swimming minnow's!!! Do you know about that one?? Well if you haven't I'll tell you about how far men can sink when they achieve total dominance, and world wide power. One of the Ceasars had himself built a fine retreat upon shear cliffs over looking the sea. He had a beautiful heated swimming pool built for his pleasure. The sad thing was his pleasure involved little boy's swimming in his pool with him. If that wasn't bad enough after he tired of the little boy's he had them tossed off the cliffs of this fine home, and then ordered for a new batch of little boy's to replace them.

Now you might be wondering just what in the hell is Dob talking about anyways??

It's just that I've studied a few things in my time as well, and I know first hand of just what's possibly soon to come, and it might be sooner than I think!! Now if your supposing I'm talking about future swimming minnows?? No... Far worse!! But as a matter of fact you could picture us each and everyone as swimming minnows should any of us find were headed down that road I mentioned earlier. Time is ticking, and there's no getting it back once it's past. What was done will be done again as an unstoppable clock of perpetual motions. This time around I do believe will be the final strikings of what the bells toll.

Should someone tell you to hold on tight, It wouldn't hurt to consider it.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

Just one more thing Dodge, i do not care to continue my discussion with you that turned out to be little more than me having to defend my delusional beliefs to someone who thinks he is superior to the point of belittling his fellow human beings.

I am also discontinuing my "discussion " with you as well ba2.
You are doing nothing but scoffing at the things i say.
Not something i came here to do.

I am here to learn gentlemen not to be put through these things.
My conversation will continue with those who are interested in learning.

[dobman53]

ba2: Your points are well noted.

Truth be known The communicating on such apparartisesses we now do enjoy, can often cause a break down in comunication when trading ideas.

Get a load of this spelling has never been my high mark, as Dodge will firmly attest to.
having such a deficiency I often find when placing my thoughts to pen I often take a strange course in speaking, all done to avoid spelling words most pronounced hurky jurky styled sentance structure.

Something else That would probably cause you to have conciderable doughts. Believe it or not I've actually had articles printed in world wide circulation. Though I must add they all were edited by my wife before any were even thought of being sent in. Then of couse some would be further edited again according to space available. The part about my wifedoing the editing,,,I'm sure you would believe that. As for the rest it makes no real difference.

For what ever it's worth I would like for you to know that I do enjoy speaking with you, and of course FOAK and Dodge as well. Hopefully you and I don't wind up going over the same bumpy roads Dodge, FOAK and I have traveled together.

Here later I'll get back to this topic with maybe something of interesting explaining some of my why's and what for's. Then of course I'll be in hopes as to hearing from each of your's own personal replies.

All is well..

Dob!!

PS...FOAK patience might serve your rewards in Dodges case. Nothing ever happens as fast as we might like. Dodge your points are alway's well noted.

[dobman53]

FOAK: Now don't get sore with me, as I've only your best interest's at heart. But I full and well know your not about to cutt and run.

Some times I find where when a post becomes to long. I then find myself not having the foggiest idea of from where even to begin a respounce. You know what I seem to do a lot of then?? Bomb tossing, you know what I mean!!!

Lets keep the stones in our pockets. I mean they'll be there if we need them, but lets not be to quick to showing them off. You know what I mean??

FOAK as is well...

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

I am not here to be patient with any ones behavior.
There is no excuse for it.
Everyone claims they have the answers yet i seldom see them applied to this message board.
As usual this place has again become a waste of time.
I come here time and time again thinking i might actually have a discussion.
Every time it turns into nothing but a competition.
i made up my mind sometime ago that competition is nothing but controlled war, part of the system of the builders to keep the masses pacified.
We have all been good sheep.
Many of whom are content to be Joe six pack.

just a passing thought Dodge.
When the military come to your door to get your guns, i hope you here me in the background saying i told you so.

At least the state i am living in is finally starting to wake up.
Unfortunately the coup has already taken place on paper via the Homeland Security Presidential Directive..
The President has the power to call martial law for any number of relatively minor reasons.
http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/laws/editorial_0607.shtm








HCR 6 – AS INTRODUCED
2009 SESSION
09-0274
09/01
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 6
A RESOLUTION affirming States’ rights based on Jeffersonian principles.
SPONSORS: Rep. Itse, Rock 9; Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 5; Rep. Comerford, Rock 9; Sen. Denley, Dist 3
COMMITTEE: State-Federal Relations and Veterans Affairs
ANALYSIS
This house concurrent resolution affirms States’ rights based on Jeffersonian principles.
09-0274
09/01
STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Nine



That any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which assumes a power not delegated to the government of United States of America by the Constitution for the United States of America and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America. Acts which would cause such a nullification include, but are not limited to:
I. Establishing martial law or a state of emergency within one of the States comprising the United States of America without the consent of the legislature of that State.
II. Requiring involuntary servitude, or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.
III. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.
IV. Surrendering any power delegated or not delegated to any corporation or foreign government.
V. Any act regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press.
VI. Further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms including prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition; and
That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government; and
That copies of this resolution be transmitted by the house clerk to the President of the United States, each member of the United States Congress, and the presiding officers of each State’s legislature.

[dobman53]

Dodge: Beings FOAK asked?

I'm curious as well. Do you own any firearms.

I've for the most part figured your more leaning to the progressive side of the isle, and was then curious of wether or not you might have any way of self defence.

If by chance you don't have any such things. Would you like to see only criminals be armed.

FOAK do you vote for Gun snatchers. There thinking their leadership is far more important, than any right to bear arms?? Just curious mind you no stones attached.

Should you ask me about voting for such leadership above individual rights. I haven't yet Nor will I ever. As I own quite a few firearms both big and small.

Dob!!

[ba2]

...I am also discontinuing my "discussion " with you as well ba2.
You are doing nothing but scoffing at the things i say.
Not something i came here to do.

I am here to learn gentlemen not to be put through these things.
My conversation will continue with those who are interested in learning...

Interesting choice of words.
Yes, I come to factnet to learn. Mostly to learn about how the fundamentalist mind works and to figure out how one could have a good discussion with them.

I took the time to watch and and/or listen to your links regarding Lucis Trust, French president Sarkozy, Henry Kissinger, Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Tony Blair. I wasn't scoffing, but I gave my impression. Yes, I think your take on these groups and people is out of line. Lucis Trust - just another one of many Christian social services groups trying to do some good things. President Sarkozy - did you even listen toi that speech? I think he had some really good things to say. Kissinger - an old man very few people take serious, but he does get on a few talk shows. I think you saw the heading and didn't even bother looking to see what the context was before you posted the links.

Is our government going too far in taking away our liberties. I certainly feel the last administration went too far. We will see if this new one gets rid of some of them or adds to them. Is it a world wide conspiracy connected with scripture? Not likely, too hard to get these leaders to cooperate.

I think we said enough about this. We apparently have to just agree to disagree.

[dodge]

Father of a King -- I think you perceive those who don’t agree with you or express an opinion that opposses what you believe to be a threat; and then you get all defensive and make accusations based on your misperceptions. I would suggest you not take yourself so seriously and consider what others say here on this forum as opinions and nothing more…which we are all entitled to. Don’t you think?

Hi Dobman. No, I don’t own any weapons. I was a soldier in the the U.S. Army in the sixties and seventies; but over the years I’ve never thought it necessary to own a gun, rifle or shotgun. It just never enters my mind that this would be necessary. You ask if I have “any way of self defense,” but all I can say is that I live a life where those kinds of thoughts are not part of my consciousness. Of course, I’m six foot three, weigh about 230 pounds, and I look young for my age; so I think I have that to my advantage (not many people want to mess with me). As far as my thoughts about criminals being armed, there isn’t anything I can do about that. I feel safe and secure here in Newburyport, I live in a great neighborhood that really doesn’t have any “criminal element” as part of the population. I lived in Los Angeles for many years; but even back then I felt no need to arm myself in fear of criminals. Perhaps I’ve been lucky, or maybe I’ve developed a way of being that protects me from such things. Having weapons around the house just doesn’t seem to me to be something that I want in my life. How about you?

[fatherofaking]

...consider what others say here on this forum as opinions and nothing more…which we are all entitled to. Don’t you think?

Not really.
What are they worth in an age of information?

I did not come here for your opinion Dodge, i was hoping for a sharing of information.
What i got was what you call opinion.
What should i care of your opinion?
How does it help anyone?
Do you think i just come here to give you my opinion?
What do you think all of this is about Dodge?
Is it a game for you?
A place to spout off your opinion?

I agreed to talk to you about this subject because i think it is a serious matter that everyone should be informed about.
We can leave my opinion out of it.
There is plenty of evidence to be looked at.

It is to late for opinion, our constitution is being railroaded into oblivion while our economy collapses around us.
We are being talked into giving up our constitution for the good of the world by the very ones who created the crisis.
This is not some ridiculous conspiracy theory.
We have been warned time and time again that it is coming if we do not do something to stop it.
Now it may be to late to stop it.
The President can put troops on the street at any time without the approval of congress.

JFK warned us and he was killed.
If you still think that this is all just some theory then you just have not seen enough evidence yet.

Those of you who think that Alice Bailey started some Christian organization might want to be careful about mentioning her teachings in church.
Theosophy to most Christians is nothing but blasphemy.
So if you do not have a problem with the UN and their Christ deciding what you are to believe then i guess you have nothing to worry about.
There are people working toward world domination and they are getting very close.
They want full control.
A new religion and and a new world government.
We do not need either but by the time they are done with us we will be begging them for it.
They created the problem now they are going to exploit it.
They are trying to convince us that we need world government to solve a problem they created.
Do you still think i am spouting off my opinion?
Why would i do this?
Do i seem unstable to you people?
Do you think i am just jumping on some conspiricy band wagon?

You know and i know that Bush and his regime lied to us for 8yrs.
They hung the ruler of a sovereign nation without provocation.
They are responsible for the death of every one of those kids that died in iraq.
They are the kind of people i am talking about.
The kind of people who will look you in the eye and lie to you.
If you think this kind of thing can not happen in this country and the rest of the world then you are not paying attention to what is going on.
Nor could you have any knowledge of history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSizQPLqETc&feature=channel_page


Call me delusional, paranoid whatever you please, but do not call me when the $#@! hits the fan because i will be busy.



Kennedy secret societies speech in two parts.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6wkjk_john-f-kennedy-pt1-secret-society-s_news


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6wko0_john-f-kennedy-pt2-secret-society-s_news
(http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=kennedy%20speeches&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=%20john%20f%20kennedy%20speeches&hl=en&emb=0)

[dodge]

Hi Father of a King. That was a revealing post. You said that we are not entitled to our opinions, and that you didn’t come here for opinions; but to “share information.” You know, information is only a compilation of facts and statistics with no inherent value in and of themselves. What we do as individuals is interpret what this information means. You present information and tell me how you interpret it, but you don’t want my opinion or anyone elses. What if I interpret the information that you present here differently than you? Are you saying that you don’t want to hear it? Apparantly not. You come here to “inform us,” tell us how you see things; but you’re not interested in any feedback that differs from your interpretation (opinion).

You went on to say that I should be careful about mentioning Theosophy in church, because “Theosophy to most Christians is nothing but blasphemy.” That’s not a problem with me, because I don’t go to church; I’m not a Christian. I know Theosophy very well, having studied the works of Madam Blavatsky, W.Q. Judge and others, including Annie Besant and Alice Bailey, thoroughly in years past. Are you one of those Christians who thinks that Theosophy is “blasphemy,” Father of a King? If so, what do you base your opinion on? Or, I should say, what information do you use to come out with the interpretation that you do?

I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say, “…if you do not have a problem with the UN and their Christ deciding what you are to believe then I guess you have nothing to worry about.” The United Nations does not have a “Christ” that they are attempting to force us all to worship, and Lucis Trust is not part of a nefarious New World Order trying to enslave humanity with a “one world government” and “one world church.” This is only your interpretation that has very little to do with reality. There are some people who believe that in the evolution of society it would be a good idea if all nations were united as one…a United Earth so to speak. This doesn’t mean that they want to enslave everyone on this planet with some evil plan, with Satan as Lord and King. It seems that your expectations of biblical prophecy coming true colors the way that you interpret information, Father of a King. The same with the information that there are some who believe that “all religions are one.” You interpret this as a malevolent philosophy attempting to destroy Christianity; but in reality it is only a belief that the roots of all religion are similar…that the mythic character is “Christ” is the same as “Buddha,” “Krishna,” or any other bright and loving archetype. And that the “god” of the three major religions is the same. William Blake believed these things too; but he was a Christian mystic poet.

You ask if I think you are “unstable,” or if I think you are “spouting off” your “opinion.” I believe that the interpretation of information that you present here is your opinion, based on your religious faith in an End Time prophesy found in the New Testament. This belief influences everything that you perceive in the world, and creates delusional paranoid conspiracy scenarios that only exist in your mind. As far as you being “unstable,” that certainly is a possibility. If you indeed have weapons, then I think that you have the potential of being one of those crazed mass murderers that we see on CNN, opening up on a crowd of people who you feel threatened by because of your paranoid delusions. But that’s only my educated opinion. I may be wrong.

[fatherofaking]

You went on to say that I should be careful about mentioning Theosophy in church, because “Theosophy to most Christians is nothing but blasphemy.” That’s not a problem with me, because I don’t go to church; I’m not a Christian. I know Theosophy very well, having studied the works of Madam Blavatsky, W.Q. Judge and others, including Annie Besant and Alice Bailey, thoroughly in years past. Are you one of those Christians who thinks that Theosophy is “blasphemy,” Father of a King? If so, what do you base your opinion on? Or, I should say, what information do you use to come out with the interpretation that you do?


Actually Dodge i understand the role that theosophy plays in all of this.
I really wish you would stop deciding what i believe.
Except for the rejection of Jesus i think they are right on the money.
I do not have the typical Christian perspective on things Dodge.

I am very careful about opinion Dodge.
To give an opinion about something is not the same as interpreting facts.
Listen to the Kennedy speech and then tell me how you interpret it.
I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say, “…if you do not have a problem with the UN and their Christ deciding what you are to believe then I guess you have nothing to worry about.” The United Nations does not have a “Christ” that they are attempting to force us all to worship, and Lucis Trust is not part of a nefarious New World Order trying to enslave humanity with a “one world government” and “one world church.” This is only your interpretation that has very little to do with reality. There are some people who believe that in the evolution of society it would be a good idea if all nations were united as one…a United Earth so to speak. This doesn’t mean that they want to enslave everyone on this planet with some evil plan, with Satan as Lord and King. It seems that your expectations of biblical prophecy coming true colors the way that you interpret information, Father of a King. The same with the information that there are some who believe that “all religions are one.” You interpret this as a malevolent philosophy attempting to destroy Christianity; but in reality it is only a belief that the roots of all religion are similar…that the mythic character is “Christ” is the same as “Buddha,” “Krishna,” or any other bright and loving archetype. And that the “god” of the three major religions is the same. William Blake believed these things too; but he was a Christian mystic poet.

Lucis Trust has stated that they intend to reveal the Christ through the auspices of the UN and world government.
I showed it to you in black and white.
I do not see any of this as malevolent Dodge.
I see it as necessary.

You ask if I think you are “unstable,” or if I think you are “spouting off” your “opinion.” I believe that the interpretation of information that you present here is your opinion, based on your religious faith in an End Time prophesy found in the New Testament. This belief influences everything that you perceive in the world, and creates delusional paranoid conspiracy scenarios that only exist in your mind. As far as you being “unstable,” that certainly is a possibility. If you indeed have weapons, then I think that you have the potential of being one of those crazed mass murderers that we see on CNN, opening up on a crowd of people who you feel threatened by because of your paranoid delusions. But that’s only my educated opinion. I may be wrong.

Just be glad that none of those things are true Dodge or i may end up in Newburyport Mass.
You think you know what i believe but you do not.

I am simply trying to get people to see that we are in danger of losing our freedoms.
Hitler fooled everyone with his religion as well, just ask those that were a member of the Hitler youth corp.
Obama is already creating a youth corp and expanding all of the other volunteer agencies.
This is exactly what Hitler did to passify the public.
Their plan will never succeed because it is not in the best interest of the species but it will not stop them from trying.
It is however in our best interest to see this side of ourselves up close so that we see the need to change.

[dodge]

Father of a King -- You just compared Barack Obama to Adolph Hitler.

“Hitler fooled everyone with his religion as well, just ask those that were a member of the Hitler youth corp. Obama is already creating a youth corp and expanding all of the other volunteer agencies. This is exactly what Hitler did to passify the public.”

Are you serious?

[fatherofaking]

Father of a King -- You just compared Barack Obama to Adolph Hitler.

“Hitler fooled everyone with his religion as well, just ask those that were a member of the Hitler youth corp. Obama is already creating a youth corp and expanding all of the other volunteer agencies. This is exactly what Hitler did to passify the public.”

Are you serious?

Yes i am serious.

Since when do we need government involvement in religion?


Obama creates faith-based office with wide mission

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_go_pr_wh/rel_obama_faith_based

Please study history.
This is about control under the guise of helping.
Our education did not give us what we need to understand what is happening around us.
How convenient.
Obama is even more dangerous than Bush.

[fatherofaking]

I do not know what it is going to take for you all to admit that we are headed for a one world government.
For those of you who think this is a good thing then you need to study history.
We all know what power does to people.
This lays out the UN agenda.
Including how Lucis Trust (an NGO) fits into the picture.





Our Global Neighborhood

Report of the Commission on Global Governance
(ISBN 0-19-827998-1; Published by Oxford University Press, 1995)

A Summary Analysis by Henry Lamb

(First published in eco-logic, January/February, 1996)


The Commission on Global Governance has released its recommendations in preparation for a World Conference on Global Governance, scheduled for 1998, at which official world governance treaties are expected to be adopted for implementation by the year 2000. Among those recommendations are specific proposals to expand the authority of the United Nations to provide:


Global taxation;
A standing UN army;
An Economic Security Council;
UN authority over the global commons;
An end to the veto power of permanent members of the Security Council;
A new parliamentary body of "civil society" representatives (NGOs);
A new "Petitions Council";
A new Court of Criminal Justice; (Accomplished in July, 1998 in Rome)
Binding verdicts of the International Court of Justice;
Expanded authority for the Secretary General.

These proposals reflect the work of dozens of different agencies and commissions over several years, but are now being advanced by the Commission on Global Governance in its report entitled Our Global Neighborhood (Oxford University Press, 1995, ISBN 0-19-827998-3, 410pp).

[fatherofaking]

The Codex Alimentarius is a threat to the freedom of people to choose natural healing and alternative medicine and nutrition. Ratified by the World Health Organization, and going into Law in the United States in 2009, the threat to health freedom has never been greater. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634

[truth_child]

i dont beleive in the socialistic thing that are put forth today. we should be able to make our way of we have money and make it legaly we should do it it takes hard work and that is what we need to do and not depend onn some kind of aid all the time

[ba2]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634

Is there a conspiracy theory out there that you don’t believe? I wonder how much money you spend on all this? I truly feel sorry for you. It must be a pretty lonely and scary place you live in. You can’t seem to trust anyone except you put complete trust in anyone who comes up with some sort of conspiracy or end of time prophesy. By the way, why worry about Dr. Rima’s concerns if the end of time is about to take place. FYI, That was rhetorical!

Did you know that Dr. Rima Laibow has been abducted by aliens from outer space?
It only took me a few minutes to find out about this person. There is tons of stuff out there but this one link seems to be the most direct:
https://www.clayandiron.com/announcements_file.jhtml?id=70&file=LAIBOW'S%20LACKEYS%20DR%20OTT%20DOC%20JAN%202 009.doc.

Here are just a few of the others:
http://www.thenhf.com/articles/articles_486/articles_486.htm
http://angryscientist.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/is-dr-rima-laibow-exaggerating-about-codex/
http://hatingautism.blogspot.com/2008/12/pure-bull****-dr-rima-laibow-lying.html
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/people.html#laibow

[fatherofaking]

http://www.codexalimentarius.net/web/index_en.jsp

She may not be the best spokesperson for the subject but the message is real.
Again, think what you like i don't care.
I am not going to let some scoffer stop me from informing people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hErvV5YEHkE

[fatherofaking]

The U.N. Deception:
This documentary reports what the nightly news does not: the UN's creators intended their organization to become a world government. Learn how top United Nations proponents exploit small arms, the environment, and justice to pressure Governments into quietly surrendering the world's heritage of freedom; should these UN plans remain unopposed, the consequences are ultimately grimhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6rQPIZwhbU&feature=PlayList&p=9C12F8A716DAC561&index=90

http://www.youtube.com/user/z00mVision

[dobman53]

Dear Friends:

I think I might have arrived at something I believe FOAK is now coming to realize. I might not have came to this realization by the same means as FOAK has. That being throught the readings of various authors, and such. But should the results be as I'm thinking them to be, it makes no real difference in how such conclusions are then drawn.

My hunch is that FOAK knows these things are going to happen. As I know there going to happen. This New World order is destined to come, Period!!

When it comes down to it no one is going to be able to stopping it. A person could vote Clinton, Bush, or OBama till the cows come home, and the difference's concerning this New World Order won't change one tiny bit.

Me I came to believe it by knowing about the Biblical prophesies, another might do a detaled investigation to come up with the same analisis. While another might just feel it in their bones.

There'll be no stopping of this New Wold Order, so it's best you start preparing for it.

Now even with me saying such a thing, I can imagine most will assume right off the bat that this guy's gone plum off his rocker!! Let me just asure you the rockers doing just fine. He He!!

I did mention this preparing subject. By that I'm leaning towards to what's the most important things in your life. What I'm trying to say is there's no better time than right now to start thinking about your loved one's. Perhaps some might feel the needs in helping others and that's very admirable, but some don't really have the means or energy to stretch themselves that far. One's personal family members are that what really counts the most, as friends are all just fine but the old saying of blood is thicker than water have never ment more than now.

Dob!!

PS..FOAK if my hunch was all wrong, I'll then ask you to over look it, but I know you would just the same.

[fatherofaking]

If you want to know what is going on with your food you really need to see this.
Our food supply is being taken over.
This is part 5 of an 8 part series.
The World According to Monsanto




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGs73SVlRw&feature=related

[fatherofaking]

All of these world leaders are talking about the New World Order.
You will notice that they are not all recent.
This is not a new plan.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9C12F8A716DAC561&page=3

[ba2]

...This New World order is destined to come, Period!! ...

...There'll be no stopping of this New Wold Order, so it's best you start preparing for it...



How would one prepare for it? Give all their money to God, in care of some specified address? Recruit others so that they could give some money? All this done legally of course. Like sell at some inflated price some kind of survival kit, as was done just before Y2K? You remember that flim-flam, don’t you? Or, go line up for the space ride to heaven? Or, drink specially formulated cool aid?
If it is destined to come, so what! If you can’t stop it, what’s the point of making such a big issue? All this serves is the hucksters who are now in a better position to take power and money from the gullible. This preaching does nothing more than allow for the growth of dangerous cults! If it is the fulfilling of a prophecy, then we can’t stop it.

FOAK, Did any of your personal acquaintances ever suggest that you might be paranoid? Don’t answer – this was rhetorical.

[fatherofaking]

How would one prepare for it? Give all their money to God, in care of some specified address? Recruit others so that they could give some money? All this done legally of course. Like sell at some inflated price some kind of survival kit, as was done just before Y2K? You remember that flim-flam, don’t you? Or, go line up for the space ride to heaven? Or, drink specially formulated cool aid?
If it is destined to come, so what! If you can’t stop it, what’s the point of making such a big issue? All this serves is the hucksters who are now in a better position to take power and money from the gullible. This preaching does nothing more than allow for the growth of dangerous cults! If it is the fulfilling of a prophecy, then we can’t stop it.

FOAK, Did any of your personal acquaintances ever suggest that you might be paranoid? Don’t answer – this was rhetorical.



You really have some nerve ba2.
Do you really think your little quips are going to deter those who are interested in what i post?
What are you doing here on this thread?
Do you have anything else to add?
This is the same dribble you have been spewing since you came here.
I am sorry if i am some how offending you but your "rhetorical" responses just make you look foolish.

[fatherofaking]

A new world order is and has been the agenda of the elite oligarchy since Cain killed his brother.
They are the builders, the ones who have created the world we live in.
Power is their motivator.
They have everything else, that is all there is left.
It is our history.
Babylon, Egypt, Greece and Rome, the quest for world domination has always existed and has never ended.
It is alive and well and it is being played out right in front of our face.
Our country was once free.
Now the President has the power to institute martial law any time he deems necessary without the approval of congress.
As a result of this coup, the bankers then used this to get congress to authorize the so called "bailout bill".
The coup was then complete.
Economic and military control is in the hands of those who lust for power, no longer in the hands of the people.

When Rome fell we were plunged into the Dark Ages.
When it collapses this time i expect to see change on the same scale.


http://www.americanfreepress.net/Bilderberg_2008_Report.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ArUoyuDd74&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

[dodge]

You’re an interesting study in the psychology of conspiracy theorists and researchers, Father of a King. You and your fellow CTs see hidden powers, dark forces, secret societies and hidden agendas behind all that you perceive. You people can twist anything to fit your preconceived plot, and your interpretations of world events are interpreted to match your theories. The fact that you’re really not interested in anyone’s opinion tells me that this is true; because CTs don’t treat their theories like historians or scientists do theirs. You don’t welcome challenges to your theories. You dismiss any counter argument and seek out any and all evidence that lends support to your delusional theories…like all those YouTube videos and random quotes by world leaders and not-so-credible sources you post. The quality of the evidence isn’t important to you, only as long as it supports your conspiracy theory. If it does you are willing to accept any source, leading to an enormous amount of misinformation.

Studies have shown that those who are deeply involved in conspiracy theories are prone to fantasy, think irrationally, and have serious psychological problems. Take, for example, your “special mission” of informing people of how there is a global conspiracy to enslave mankind since the time of Cain and Abel. You tell us that Barrack Obama is like Adolph Hitler, that he now has the power to institute martial law (as if this is new to the presidency) and that Obama and “the bankers” organized a “coup” in order to authorize the bailout bill. That’s crazy, Father of a King, and you don’t seem to be aware of how insane you sound. Or, and this may actually be the case, you’re not serious about any of this. I hope that’s true, that you’re just playing with us and don’t really believe what you’re saying. Because if you really believe what you're saying, and you actually have weapons then I think you are a very dangerous man.

From what I understand from my reading, those like you who are deeply involved in researching conspiracy theories have had some sort of “conversion” experience, something that acted as a catalyst. What was that? What was it that caused you to seek out motive forces behind traumatic events? Did something very bad happen to you or a loved one, something that you needed to find an explanation for? Why is it your job to seek out, identify and alert the unsuspecting masses about the dangers that you see lurking underneath and between the lines of current events? Why the call to arms and I assume a return to Jesus message? Do you see yourself as an avatar, a prophet who’s crying out in the wilderness like John the Baptist? For me, the so-called “truth” behind a particular conspiracy theory is not as important as the effect it has on the behavior of people like you, coming to internet message boards and believing you perform an important function in informing and warning. I know that, as you said, you’re not interested in anyone’s opinion and that you only come here because you feel that “everyone should be informed,” but when you post on a public forum you will be confronted with your insanity and I, for one, will give you my opinion whether you want it or not.

Having said that, please continue to post the way you have been. Tell us all how Obama is like Hitler, how the economic meltdown was engineered by those who want to destroy the U.S. Constitution and announce martial law so that they can take away all our weapons and freedoms so that they can enslave everyone through the United Nations who's mission it is to force us all to worship their "Christ" through a One World Church and how this is all connected to biblical prophesy and a technological singularity. I'm enjoying it very much.

[fatherofaking]

You’re an interesting study in the psychology of conspiracy theorists and researchers, Father of a King. You and your fellow CTs see hidden powers, dark forces, secret societies and hidden agendas behind all that you perceive. You people can twist anything to fit your preconceived plot, and your interpretations of world events are interpreted to match your theories. The fact that you’re really not interested in anyone’s opinion tells me that this is true; because CTs don’t treat their theories like historians or scientists do theirs. You don’t welcome challenges to your theories. You dismiss any counter argument and seek out any and all evidence that lends support to your delusional theories…like all those YouTube videos and random quotes by world leaders and not-so-credible sources you post. The quality of the evidence isn’t important to you, only as long as it supports your conspiracy theory. If it does you are willing to accept any source, leading to an enormous amount of misinformation.

Studies have shown that those who are deeply involved in conspiracy theories are prone to fantasy, think irrationally, and have serious psychological problems. Take, for example, your “special mission” of informing people of how there is a global conspiracy to enslave mankind since the time of Cain and Abel. You tell us that Barrack Obama is like Adolph Hitler, that he now has the power to institute martial law (as if this is new to the presidency) and that Obama and “the bankers” organized a “coup” in order to authorize the bailout bill. That’s crazy, Father of a King, and you don’t seem to be aware of how insane you sound. Or, and this may actually be the case, you’re not serious about any of this. I hope that’s true, that you’re just playing with us and don’t really believe what you’re saying. Because if you really believe what you're saying, and you actually have weapons then I think you are a very dangerous man.

From what I understand from my reading, those like you who are deeply involved in researching conspiracy theories have had some sort of “conversion” experience, something that acted as a catalyst. What was that? What was it that caused you to seek out motive forces behind traumatic events? Did something very bad happen to you or a loved one, something that you needed to find an explanation for? Why is it your job to seek out, identify and alert the unsuspecting masses about the dangers that you see lurking underneath and between the lines of current events? Why the call to arms and I assume a return to Jesus message? Do you see yourself as an avatar, a prophet who’s crying out in the wilderness like John the Baptist? For me, the so-called “truth” behind a particular conspiracy theory is not as important as the effect it has on the behavior of people like you, coming to internet message boards and believing you perform an important function in informing and warning. I know that, as you said, you’re not interested in anyone’s opinion and that you only come here because you feel that “everyone should be informed,” but when you post on a public forum you will be confronted with your insanity and I, for one, will give you my opinion whether you want it or not.

Having said that, please continue to post the way you have been. Tell us all how Obama is like Hitler, how the economic meltdown was engineered by those who want to destroy the U.S. Constitution and announce martial law so that they can take away all our weapons and freedoms so that they can enslave everyone through the United Nations who's mission it is to force us all to worship their "Christ" through a One World Church and how this is all connected to biblical prophesy and a technological singularity. I'm enjoying it very much.


Your effort to smear me Dodge is very telling.
You are not doing anything to refute my assertions because you know it is all true and you can come up with nothing to show otherwise.
You continue to come here and misrepresent the things i say and then try and make me look paranoid and delusional.

What is your motive for doing this Dodge?
Your opinion means nothing when your motive is to harm.

Do a better job of reading what i post so that you stop misrepresenting the things i say.
Give us your ideas on the material not my personality, then we may be able to have a discussion.
Until then you are nothing but a troll and flamer.
One to be ignored.
You are the worst of the bunch Dodge because you know better.

[ba2]

You really have some nerve ba2.
Do you really think your little quips are going to deter those who are interested in what i post?
What are you doing here on this thread?
Do you have anything else to add?
This is the same dribble you have been spewing since you came here.
I am sorry if i am some how offending you but your "rhetorical" responses just make you look foolish.

You are not offending me. To the contrary, I truly feel sorry for you. I would hope you can find the courage to seek professional psychiatric help, before you use one of your weapons on some innocent citizen.

Any good researcher checks out the source of their information. You post a speech given by a so-called expert and I find numerous problems with her sources, including her claim to have been abducted by an alien from space!!! How credible is this?

I see dodge going out of his way to keep his posts pleasant, asking for sources and documentation. When you finally come up with some, they either have no credibility, or the statements made by some world leaders are not put in context. Like me, I'm sure he can get frustrated with you. I still can't believe you actually posted that speech by the French president. If anything, he was actually speaking against what you are calling a new world order. But yes, he did say we need a new world order, and explained what he meant. No conspiracy, no single world government, just world cooperation. It was a really great speech. Try listening to it.

No one is trying to smear you. I guess the paranoia runs deep.

[dodge]

I think I know you pretty well, Father of a King. You’re not a Christian, and in fact you believe that science has shown that Christianity is false. You believe that Christianity is no longer relevant and rejected Christianity with confidence a long time ago. You don’t really like talking about the Bible because it bores you and you think that those who adhere to Christian doctrine are blind to the fact that it is without substance. I think you said that “Christendom is a cesspool of mediocrity,” and that Christianity has no power to change lives.

You believe in God, but not angels or Satan; yet you say you have faith in the Bible and quote biblical passages about end times and prophecies that you believe are related to the so-called “technological singularity.” You point to Daniel’s prophecy as talking about what’s happening now; but were unable to support that when questioned; so you gave that up even though you continued to insist that it’s talking about some “paradigm shift” that you say is coming soon. Although you say you’re not a Christian, you tell us that Jesus will return but will have a new name and that none of us can “dispute the integrity of the Bible and it’s message.”

I have no idea what you are in terms of religion, Father of a King. If you’re not a Christian or a Jew, believe in God but not Jesus, wouldn’t that make you a Deist? Or are you just someone who picks and chooses what you want from the Bible and creates your own point of view that has no name? What I do know is that you do all that you can to prove your conspiracy theories, which seems to be your religion.

[fatherofaking]

This is unbelievable.
The two of you are a great pair.
Neither of you are even able to respond to a post without misrepresenting me and what i said.
You now think i am some paranoid, delusional person who owns weapons and is in danger of hurting others.
I will have you know that i despise any weapon that is not used for obtaining food.
I do not need to hunt for my food so i have no weapons.

Anyone reading this stuff can see the two of you are simply in denial.
You have nothing to say to me except to attack me.
I apologize if you did not like the video.
The point was clearly made that he is for a new world order.
You even admit that he said so and you are trying to spin it off as something else.

I have had about enough of the two of you.
I think it is time to just stop responding to you and let everyone decide for themselves if what i have presented is credible or not.
Certainly the two of you are not credible.
I have posted link after link of evidence.
Neither of you even mention most of them because you are unable to defend your position.
So you go ahead and continue to live in denial and defend that denial by attacking me.
Let us see just how far it takes you.

[fatherofaking]

I think I know you pretty well, Father of a King. You’re not a Christian, and in fact you believe that science has shown that Christianity is false. You believe that Christianity is no longer relevant and rejected Christianity with confidence a long time ago. You don’t really like talking about the Bible because it bores you and you think that those who adhere to Christian doctrine are blind to the fact that it is without substance. I think you said that “Christendom is a cesspool of mediocrity,” and that Christianity has no power to change lives.

You believe in God, but not angels or Satan; yet you say you have faith in the Bible and quote biblical passages about end times and prophecies that you believe are related to the so-called “technological singularity.” You point to Daniel’s prophecy as talking about what’s happening now; but were unable to support that when questioned; so you gave that up even though you continued to insist that it’s talking about some “paradigm shift” that you say is coming soon. Although you say you’re not a Christian, you tell us that Jesus will return but will have a new name and that none of us can “dispute the integrity of the Bible and it’s message.”

I have no idea what you are in terms of religion, Father of a King. If you’re not a Christian or a Jew, believe in God but not Jesus, wouldn’t that make you a Deist? Or are you just someone who picks and chooses what you want from the Bible and creates your own point of view that has no name? What I do know is that you do all that you can to prove your conspiracy theories, which seems to be your religion.


What is the purpose of all of this Dodge?
When are you going to refute the things i have posted Dodge?
You can't and you know it.
The both of you continue to bring up the same things and then ignore the rest.

You are the one that opened this thread Dodge.
I did not start this.
I would not be doing any of this had you not made the decision you did.
You see Dodge i am not obsessed with this like you think i am.
You gave me an opportunity and i took it.
It is as simple as that.

You just need to concede that you are not able to do anything to defend your position other than to tell me that i am some paranoid , delusional conspiracy theorist.
You go right ahead and continue to deny all that i have posted and continue to attack me, it makes you look foolish and me more credible.

[dodge]

Fatherofaking -- Come on, give it up. You can’t seriously compare President Obama to Adolph Hitler and expect me to say that I can’t refute such a rediculous claim. All anyone has to do is look at the things that you’ve said here to see that you are rapidly moving into the lunatic fringe. Tell me where I misrepresent you and what you’ve claimed to believe in this forum.

You said that the Masonic organizations “fit the general description of the Antichrist” and that “they are the organization that will produce the world leader that Christians talk about.” You suggested that it wasn’t the terrorists who brought down the World Trade Towers; but some controlled explosions inside the buildings. You said that assassinations don’t happen unless our government wants it to happen. Before the elections last year you hinted that Bush created a “Fascist regime” and that it was probable that he will declare martial law and cancel the elections. That didn't happen, so now it’s Obama you say will engineer it so that our Constitution will be abolished and martial law will be enforced where troops will be breaking down our doors demanding we give up all our weapons. You said that Obama’s “socialism” is “no better than Bush’s fascism,” and that the “rich oligarchy” controls every country in the world including the U.S.

You keep talking about this coming One World Government that is the “inception of the beast;” yet you’ve said you don’t believe in Satan or Jesus. As I’ve said, you wrote that “Christianity is a lie.” You’re a mass of contradictions, fatherofaking. You said that “the message of Christendom is one of hypocracy,” yet you say you have a “strong faith in God” but, as you’ve said, “Just not the Christian God.” You make statements that indicate that you know what this non-Christian God of yours wants, as in “God doesn’t want all of this bickering and fighting over words.” Yet you tie all of your New World Order conspiracy theories into biblical prophesy.

I can point to where you’ve said each and every thing that I’ve quoted you on. So, where am I misrepresenting you? By the way, I came across your Yahoo page about the New World Order. It’s very revealing. I’ve also read your rants about the New World Order and the coming “paradigm shift” at Beliefnet. Where else on the world wide web are you warning people about this evil conspiracy?

http://www.geocities.com/fatherofaking/

You really do feel that you have a mission to warn the unsuspecting masses about this global conspiracy of yours, don’t you FOAK. By the way, why do your son’s friends call him “King?”

[fatherofaking]

Now you are just getting nasty Dodge.
I trusted you when i gave you that link to my website.
I told you i did not want to make it public until i had completed more of it.

You spent over an hr on saturday looking for all of this stuff on me (who is the obsessed one?).
Then you come here and take it all out of context and outright lie.
Why?
Show me the post on Beliefnet Dodge.
I have not been there in a very long time.


My beliefs change as i learn Dodge.
If that is a problem for you then i guess you would think we should never change what we believe.
Since we know you don't think that way concerning yourself then why impose it on me?

This should strengthen your position here Dodge you fool.
Do you really think this is going to help you?
You claim to have all of this knowledge and then you do things like this.
You are just an obsessed fool and a liar.
One who must resort to getting personal because he is not able to discuss a subject like an adult.
Why does it matter so much to you that i have all of this information i am putting out Dodge?
Why does it threaten you so much?
Do you go to other sites that talk about these things and do this to people?
You must really feel threatened by me to go and do a search on me the way you did on saturday.

Leave my son out of this you piece of $@!#.
I cannot believe you would resort to this stuff.
You are worse than Smyrna.




i can't wait to see how far you are willing to take this.

[dodge]

You don't like being confronted with your own words, do you FOAK? As far as calling me a "fool" and a "piece of $@!#," all I can do is quote you again:

“Anything that we are so vehement about is said to be because it is something in ourselves that we hate.”

I would suggest that you start living by all the bumper sticker platitudes that you heap upon us here, which you obviously don't follow yourself.

Your anger about me asking why your son is called "King" is disingenuous. Someone asked you about your username in a past post, and you said that it was because your son's friends called him "King." All I asked you was why. Your reaction is something that you should examine, not my asking the question.

You said that I was misrepresenting you, so I quoted the things that you've said here in this forum to prove that I wasn't. What's so "nasty" about that? As far as your New World Order webpage, I honestly don't remember you giving me a link. What I did was Google "fatherofaking" just to see if there was any definition of that term out of curiosity; and I was taken right there. Not much of a secret, is it?

With your involvement in warning the unsuspecing public about the dangers of a New World Order and believing that the World Trade Towers were purposely imploded with planted explosives rather than being destroyed by terrorists flying into them with jets, along with your ideas about the Masons being the Antichrist and comparing President Obama to Adolph Hitler I would say that it is an accurate statement that you are part of the "lunatic fringe." I don't think many rational people would disagree with that.

As you've told others here, "We should not be fearful of having our beliefs questioned, our only fear should be of what the world has become because we do not allow our beliefs to be questioned." You should read your own bumper stickers.

[fatherofaking]

You really enjoy provoking people don't you Dodge?
I am sorry for calling you a piece of $#@! and a fool.
I follow every word i speak to the best of my ability.
When i do not, i admit it and do what i can to make it right.

Now let us discuss the subject matter.
You don't agree with me that is obvious.
So instead of giving me a counter argument to show me how i am in error, you get personal and say i am on the "lunatic fringe".

Most people don't spend an hour of their day doing a search on someone's screen name.
That is what i call obsessive and dangerous behavior (the lunatic fringe).

I have no trouble having my beliefs questioned.
You however are not capable of doing that without getting personal.
Why is that Dodge?
When are you going to tell me why you are so intent on making me look bad rather than prove to me that what i am saying is untrue?

Just discuss the subject matter Dodge and leave the personal attacks out of it.
This is my last request.
From here on i will not be responding to your personal remarks.

[dobman53]

ba2:

While some might advocate sending their money in to some fool of a denomination to bring world piece. A fool and his money are soon parted.

It's understandable that one might toss me in with the rest of such fools, but I asure you I'm not of that color what so ever.

I have come to conclude a few points about yourself I might make word of. I've come to know that you are the progressive type in nature. Where believed knowledge of the majotity alone is held at it's highest esteam.

Flat landers were the ultimate progressives. They felt through their combined agreements that all knowledge was in their hands alone. Should an opposing view then raise it's ugly head it was then quickly removed as being obviously abstructive to the good of the whole.

Then of all things their admirations did abound amongst them, as they then thought of how their agreed upon intelligence would lead them to out right glory. As they did feel one only needed to view them to see how obviously intelligent they actually were, and their lock stepped agreements amongst themselves was all the proof they desired. Columated to where futher believed thoughts should never be questioned.

Yes I do have my takes, but there the lesser to no mans.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

Here is more information about the UN agenda.
While this all may sound great to some of you, to me it means the death of the US constitution and our civil liberties.



Our Global Neighborhood Report of the Commission on Global Governance (ISBN 0-19-827998-1; Published by Oxford University Press, 1995) A Summary Analysis by Henry Lamb (First published in eco-logic, January/February, 1996)

The Commission on Global Governance has released its recommendations in preparation for a World Conference on Global Governance, scheduled for 1998, at which official world governance treaties are expected to be adopted for implementation by the year 2000. Among those recommendations are specific proposals to expand the authority of the United Nations to provide:
* Global taxation;
* A standing UN army;
* An Economic Security Council;
* UN authority over the global commons;
* An end to the veto power of permanent members of the Security Council;
* A new parliamentary body of "civil society" representatives (NGOs);
* A new "Petitions Council";
* A new Court of Criminal Justice; (Accomplished in July, 1998 in Rome)
* Binding verdicts of the International Court of Justice;
* Expanded authority for the Secretary General.
http://www.sovereignty.net/p/gov/gganalysis.htm

[ba2]

ba2:

...I've come to know that you are the progressive type in nature. Where believed knowledge of the majotity alone is held at it's highest esteam...

Flat landers were the ultimate progressives... ...Columated to where futher believed thoughts should never be questioned...

Dob!!

Dob
I appreciate the scientific approach to learning and that includes learning about scripture. I often go against the majority view.

The flat landers (flat earth theory)? They were the opposite of progressive. The progressive scientists studied the facts, tested them, and would change their beliefs if deemed necessary. They tested everything and they grew with knowledge. The flat landers would consider death for anyone who would test their theory.

This thread was started with discussions about the so called “New World Order “conspiracy theories with connections to biblical passages. Dodge specifically asked for proof of these conspiracy theories. I am interested in this too, mainly because some close relatives fell into some of these traps. It has been costing them significantly for many years and it is still going on. Loss of dollars, lose of a solid potential future for their children.

I have little patience with those who fail to do the appropriate homework before they advocate a position which has the potential to harm others. Those that do this are either hucksters themselves or are unwittingly helping others with their flim-flam. I am not putting you in that category; I don’t know you well enough but I sense that you are sincere.

However, we see one person on this thread who is promoting a theory which does cause many of the gullible to be taken advantage of. I have seen it in the past and I see it now. If you knew me at all you would understand that I rarely get angry at anyone’s post. I am very interested in many points of view but I am human. I sometimes get angry when I realize that someone has been sending me on wild goose chases, posting silly web sites as proof of their theory. Or they consistantly use out of context quotes to prove their points. Either the poster is dishonest, or they are delusional.

Tell me, would you trust the credibility of someone who has claimed to have been abducted by space aliens? A person who has made a ton of money off these claims? And now they are advocating a government conspiracy, and making lots of money off these claims? I wouldn’t use this type of person as my witness.

I understand that there eventually will be an end of time. But, if it is destined to come, so what! I have asked this question before - If you can’t stop it, what’s the point of making such a big issue? All this serves is the hucksters who are now in a better position to take power and money from the gullible. This preaching does nothing more than allow for the growth of dangerous cults! If it is the fulfilling of a prophecy, then we can’t stop it.

[fatherofaking]

There is a storm coming.
We can't stop it so there is no sense in warning any one.

[dodge]

OK, FOAK, let’s talk about what you’ve said and posted here in this thread so far:

You posted a youtube video where George H.W. Bush mentioned the New World Order and the United Nations, and said “there is a group of people that are working hard to gain world dominance. Here is one of the families involved.” What Bush was doing was describing the state of the world after the end of the Cold War era, and was attempting to envision what might happen if cooperation with the Soviet Union were to result instead of aggressive confrontation. Bush went on in his speech to say “In the words of Winston Churchill, a ‘world order’ in which ‘the principles of justice and fair play‘ ” protect the weak against the strong. Do you believe that Winston Churchill was part of this secret society attempting to enslave the world? Your implication that the Bush family is one of the rich and powerful members of the New World Order is incorrect. These men were the heads of nations, and as such were indeed powerful; but there is no evidence that the Bush and Churchill families are and were part of some secret global conspiracy going back thousands of years in order to enslave humanity. Do you think they would publically mention a “new order” if they were really part of some vast secret network? This was merely political rhetoric, an attempt to describe what the world might be without the hostility that causes war.

Then you go right into the Lucis Trust, and how it’s behind the United Nations in a conspiracy to eventually force people into worshipping their “Christ,” as a “religious agenda of the United Nations.” Next, you go into a rant about how our rights will be taken from us and how we’re going to be walking around with “chips in our hands and heads,” and how our food supply is being poisoned and how dangerous metals are being put into the vaccines that our childen are given. You connect this all the the “New World Order.” Then you say you have proof after proof of the “horrible things being done in the name of the New World Order.”

Next you tell us that if we traced the “royal families” back we would “be surprised what” we find; and then post links about George W. Bush’s relatives. Your link was to “Operation Awakening,” a conspiratorial website that also supports the idea that it wasn’t the suicide terrorists flying jets into the World Trade towers that brought them down, but a conspiracy that includes the CIA working with Jihadists. Operation Awakening also has videos supporting other lunitic fringe ideas such as how the U.S. is plotting mind control through chemtrails, flouride and weather manipulation.

Then you post a link to the “Illuminati News.“ This is another conspiratorial website that talks about the “Illuminati Agenda,“ and secret societes attempting to enslave the world. The web master at Illuminati News, Wes Penre, says that he is convinced that “the world is controlled by a network of secret societies, with the goal to create a New World Order and a One World Government” that will install micro-chips in the population in order “track and control” everyone “remotely from a Super Computer” located in Brussels, Belgium. Penre says that these microchips will “stop our spiritual growth, because this is also something…they can do, by slowing down the speed our bodies and spirits vibrate at, preventing us from reaching higher levels of existence.”

And now your latest link, to Henry Lamb’s writing. Henry Lamb, the conservative columnist who appears frequently on World Net Daily; that for-profit website for Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists. Lamb is Chairman of Sovereignty International, who believes that global warming is part of a United Nations and media conspiracy. “The media and the UN have conspired to orchestrate the most comprehensive propaganda campaign since Joseph Goebbels tried to prepare the world for Hitler’s brand of global governance.”

http://www.sovereignty.net/

Henry Lamb, executive director and vice president of the Environmental Conservation Organization, a group that is in existence to protect private property rights from “erosion by excessive environmental regulations.” This organization publishes reports that suggest “Global Governance” can be traced back to Cecil Rhodes in a conspiracy that includes the League of Nations, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the United Nations. They work to discredit environmental groups.


You toss random quotes, youtube videos and links to unreliable conspiratorial and right-wing Republican/Fundamentalist Christian websites into a large pile of rubbish and then say “Here, counter all of this.” It’s like throwing the pieces of a large puzzle into the middle of the floor and say, “You figure it out.” There’s a picture in there somewhere, FOAK; but I don’t believe it’s the one that you interpret.

[fatherofaking]

How do you interpret the information Dodge?
Can you prove these so called bogus sources wrong Dodge?
Have you checked their sources Dodge?
Your attack on my sources is no better than attacking me.
Show me that they are wrong.

You know very well that i have much more information than is posted here.
It is unfortunate that i am limited to just posting links to this stuff or i would be posting the videos.
I know that people do not always look at links provided but they will watch a video if it is put in front of them.

http://www.geocities.com/fatherofaking/

http://www.infowars.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/

[fatherofaking]

SC Governor: We're moving close to 'a savior-based economy' (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/08/sc-governor-were-moving-close-to-a-savior-based-economy/)
Posted: 11:04 AM ET

From CNN Associate Producer Martina Stewart (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-associate-producer-martina-stewart/)

WASHINGTON (CNN) – As many state and local officials clamor for their share of the billions of dollars in federal aid in the stimulus bill under consideration in Washington, South Carolina’s Republican governor is sounding a note of dissent about federal efforts to help the economy.
“A problem that was created by building up of too much debt will not be solved with yet more debt,” Gov. Mark Sanford said Sunday, making a reference to the federal deficit spending that will likely finance the federal stimulus package.
“We’re moving precipitously close to what I would call a savior-based economy,” Sanford also said Sunday on CNN’s State of the Union.
The South Carolina Republican said such an economy is “what you see in Russia or Venezuela or Zimbabwe or places like that where it matters not how good your product is to the consumer but what your political connection is to those in power.”
“That is quite different than a market-based economy where some rise and some fall but there’s a consequence to making a stupid decision,” Sanford said after pointing to the powers granted to the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve to help deal with the current economic crisis.
“A lot of people who’ve made some very stupid decisions are being bailed out by the population at large,” he added.
Instead of bailing out failing companies, Sanford told CNN’s John King that the government should let the economy work through the current challenges without intervention.
“We’re going to go through a process of deleveraging,” Sanford said. “And it will be painful. The question is: Do we apply a bunch of different band aids that lengthen and prolong this pain or do we take the band aid off? I believe very strongly: let’s get this thing over with, let’s not drag it on.”

Although Sanford was critical of the federal government’s efforts to get the economy back on track, he equivocated when asked whether he would turn down money in the stimulus package intended for South Carolina which he would control.”
“I think that ultimately we’ll decide that question when we get to it,” the governor said.

(emphasis mine)


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/08/sc-governor-were-moving-close-to-a-savior-based-economy/

[fatherofaking]

Chorus call for New World Order In economic and financial desperation, leaders around the globe are openly calling for the creation of a "New World Order," including prominent "old guard" members of the http://www.augustreview.com/mambots/content/glossarbot/info.gifTrilateral Commission (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29). Is the baby about to be born?

The return of the Trilateral undead

It's not accidental that so many of the original members of the Trilateral Commission, all of whom are now well into their 80's, have returned to dance in the limelight once again.
TC Members like Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Paul Volker and Brent Scowcroft, for instance.
On January 5, 2009, Henry Kissinger was interviewed by CNBC on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. His voice still raspy and spoken with a thick accent, he responded to a question about President-elect Obama's first actions as President: "he can give new impetus to American foreign policy ... I think that his task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period, when really a 'new world order' can be created. It's a great opportunity. It isn't such a crisis."

While the rest of the country slips into depression and financial collapse, to Kissinger "it isn't such a crisis."
And, of course it isn't -- for him.
Kissinger has been patiently waiting since at least 1973 for his New World Order egg to hatch.
And remember, in July 1971, Kissinger was the very first diplomat (under Nixon) to visit Communist China in order to open up trade relations with that brutal dictatorship. Oh, and that was an absolutely top-secret trip.
The Trilateral Commission was founded in 1973 to create a "New International Economic Order." George H.W. Bush, also a Trilateral, later spoke of inaugurating a "New World Order." Hence, in Trilateral literature, the two terms have been synonymous ever since. (see The Trilateral Commission: Usurping Sovereignty (http://www.augustreview.com/issues/globalization/the_trilateral_commission%3a_usurping_sovereignty_ 2007080373/))

Kissinger earlier praised Obama's picks for economic recovery, and why not?
Obama picked Trilateral Commission wonder boy Timothy Geithner to be Secretary of the Treasury. The rest of the team are protégés of Robert Rubin, also a Trilateral and former Treasury Secretary under Clinton.
Obama's top foreign policy advisor has been Zbigniew Brzezinski, the co-founder of the Trilateral Commission with David Rockefeller.
In 1974, Brzezinski stated,"We need to change the international system for a global system in which new, active and creative forces recently developed - should be integrated. This system needs to include Japan. Brazil, the oil producing countries, and even the USSR, to the extent which the Soviet Union is willing to participate in a global system... the reality of our times is that a modern society such as the U.S. needs a central coordinating and renovating organ which cannot be made up of six hundred people..”For the uninitiated, "six hundred people" refers to Congress: Replace it with a Socialist/Communist central coordinating organ.

The call in Europe

Sarkozy (France), Merkel (Germany) and Blair (Great Britain) are all calling for a New World Order.
On January 7, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said that "In the 21st century, there it is no longer a single nation who can say what we should do or what we should think."
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that the world "cannot continue as it is."
Both Tony Blair and the current British PM Gordon Brown have repeatedly called for a New World Order for many years, but their cries are intensified.
Interestingly, when President-elect Obama delivered a speech in 2008 to hundreds of thousands in Germany, he stated, Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen — a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world.”
The media hailed Obama for his vision of America and the New World Order.
Sampling of the global press

Indeed, the chorus for a New World Order is being heard around the world.


Africa: Time for a new world order (http://www.bdafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11043&Itemid=5854)
Australia: We need a new world health order (http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20081117-We-need-a-new-world-order-post-G20.html)
Canada: A new world order rising? (http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/484499)
China: Hu urges revamp of finance system (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-11/17/content_7208992.htm)
India: Plotting India's route in the new world order (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Sudeshna_Sen_World_Eco_Summit/articleshow/3720725.cms)
Japan: New financial order will emerge from crisis (http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-news/article.aspx?StoryId=b1be3bfb-c624-4bd8-86db-23671cd15bb7)
Malaysia: Groups to call for new world order (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/133561/Groups-to-call-for-new-world-order-during-G-20-summit)
Quatar: Islam to emerge as the new world order (http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=local_news&month=november2008&file=local_news2008111554010.xml)

A crisis made to order?

Dr. Robert A. Pastor, the principal visionary of the North American Union, stated in 2007, "What I'm saying is that a crisis is an event which can force democratic governments to make difficult decisions like those that will be required to create a North American Community," he said. "It's not that I want another 9/11 crisis, but having a crisis would force decisions that otherwise might not get made."
So, now we have the mother of all crises and on a global scale at that: Financial, political, religious (remember Islam?).
And socialistic solutions are being railroaded through on a daily basis.
If the New World Order baby is about to be delivered, wouldn't you expect the fathers (Kissinger, Brzezinski, Scowcroft, Volker, Rockefeller, et al) to show up and pace the floor?
Everybody figures that these guys are just crusty and harmless old men, but I will guarantee that when the baby is finally born the screaming will begin.
http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/trilateral_commission/chorus_call_for_new_world_order_20090108109/

[fatherofaking]

Increasing Number of States Declaring Sovereignty (http://www.infowars.com/increasing-number-of-states-declaring-sovereignty/)


Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
February 5, 2009


http://www.infowars.com/increasing-number-of-states-declaring-sovereignty/



Although Fox News and CNN are not telling you about it, a growing number of states are declaring sovereignty. Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia have all introduced bills and resolutions declaring sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment. Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are considering such measures.
For details on the particular bills and resolutions introduced by the above states, check out the following:Washington (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2009&bill=4009)
New Hampshire (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html)
Arizona (http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm)
Montana (http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm)
Michigan (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28wn1rpuqkwkzle145cc3xui55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=2009-HCR-0004)
Missouri (http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/bills091/bills/HR212.HTM)
Oklahoma (http://axiomamuse.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/state-legislator-charles-key-wants-to-limit-federal-power/)
California (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/93-94/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sjr_44_bill_940829_chaptered)
Georgia (http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/1995_96/leg/fulltext/sr308.htm)

[jargon631]

for what its worth...i dont think the u.n. is capable of wiping their own bottoms...much less take over the world...the only time the u.n has "accomplished" anything was when they were assisted by the u.s...but lets look at some of the
situations the united nations has tried to
resolve...cyprus...rwanda...korea...somalia...libe ria...congo...serbia...kosovo...sierra leone and the list continues...the thing that all the conflicts have in common is that no resolution was reached by the ham-handed stumblefingers' known as the united nations...either the wars and murders continued apace or, as in rwanda, the u.n. ran like COWARDS while hundreds of thousands of men, women and children were hacked into pieces for the "crime" of belonging to another tribe...what about the congo where u.n. 'peacekeepers" were found to be engaging in open pedophelia...it went something like this..."you give me your child for sexual purposes and i will give u the food THAT IM SUPPOSED TO GIVE U ANYWAY"...the u.n. is a craven bunch of lackwits who could no more take over the world than captain kangaroo...sorry, i feeel rather strongly about this...fd

[fatherofaking]

for what its worth...i dont think the u.n. is capable of wiping their own bottoms...much less take over the world...the only time the u.n has "accomplished" anything was when they were assisted by the u.s...but lets look at some of the
situations the united nations has tried to
resolve...cyprus...rwanda...korea...somalia...libe ria...congo...serbia...kosovo...sierra leone and the list continues...the thing that all the conflicts have in common is that no resolution was reached by the ham-handed stumblefingers' known as the united nations...either the wars and murders continued apace or, as in rwanda, the u.n. ran like COWARDS while hundreds of thousands of men, women and children were hacked into pieces for the "crime" of belonging to another tribe...what about the congo where u.n. 'peacekeepers" were found to be engaging in open pedophelia...it went something like this..."you give me your child for sexual purposes and i will give u the food THAT IM SUPPOSED TO GIVE U ANYWAY"...the u.n. is a craven bunch of lackwits who could no more take over the world than captain kangaroo...sorry, i feeel rather strongly about this...fd


You are right on the money Jargon.
If you think they cannot accomplish their goals just look at what they are willing to do to subjugate Africa.
We have UN troops on our soil as we speak.

[jargon631]

um....i think u might have missed the thrust of my statement...i dont think the u.n is capable of starting a new world order and their dunderheaded idiocy in africa is an excellent example...on one side u have the u.n which(theoretically at least) is able to draw on the manpower and technology of most of the planet...on the other side u have a bunch of junta's and strongmen who are mostly isolated and the united nations still cant muster the will (political and otherwise)to force them to stop raping and murdering innocent people...i agree with u on a lot of things foak but this isnt one of them(sorry)...all i can say is that as a vet, and as someone who lived for a loooong time in texas,lol, any attempts by an organization to militarily take over this country would be doomed to violent, bloody failure..fd

[fatherofaking]

um....i think u might have missed the thrust of my statement...i dont think the u.n is capable of starting a new world order and their dunderheaded idiocy in africa is an excellent example...on one side u have the u.n which(theoretically at least) is able to draw on the manpower and technology of most of the planet...on the other side u have a bunch of junta's and strongmen who are mostly isolated and the united nations still cant muster the will (political and otherwise)to force them to stop raping and murdering innocent people...i agree with u on a lot of things foak but this isnt one of them(sorry)...all i can say is that as a vet, and as someone who lived for a loooong time in texas,lol, any attempts by an organization to militarily take over this country would be doomed to violent, bloody failure..fd


Did you see the post i made concerning all of the people in the world calling for a New World Order?
The number is growing internationally.
The UN is the only body available for this to happen.

They are planning on us revolting Jargon.
The more chaos the better.
Once it gets bad enough the UN will just have to step in and take over.
Most will beg for the solution that they will come up with because there will be no other.
There is no solution because the ones that offer the solution created the problem.
The M.O. is the same every time.
Create a problem and then wait for people to cry for help and then offer the solution.
The solution in this case will be World Government with the UN as the governing body.

They will use UN troops to quell the revolt maybe worse.

Underestimating these people is a big mistake Jargon.
Please do more research.
Then call your congressman.

[dobman53]

Jargon631:

I agree with your take on the UN's inabilities.

Though should we as the US along with several other nations give the UN teeth!! They will then have within their means the abilities to take world wide actions.

ba2: I fall in the same suit in thinking there's not much we can do should this new world order arrise. But in that same vein I know things from the Bible stating about where were not to worship this Beast.

(beast's are refured to in the Bible as kingdom's)

In the final act written in the Bible it tells where Satan sit's down on his thrown in Jerusalem. He commands all to then worship him as God.

Now I'm well aware,, where many will quickly note to then suppose that this is all just a big bunch of whooowy!! But I'll also add Satan does wonders before men. He even causes lightning to strike the ground, having statues to speak. All the people will then say God has really come this time.

But here's the kicker!!! God says you better not worship this beast, as your life swings in the balance.

I can be accused of using my own words, as this is true. But I can assure you this,,that what I've spoken of is all written down. As I didn't just here recently begin to look it all up, nor have I had any miraculous revelation's come my way here lately either.

FOAK: I can understand your concerns, As for this I wish to say I do know how you have commited your efforts accordingly. Though I do hope a caution light comes on,, knowing there's not much you can do to bring this to a stop. You yourself can act accordingly in any manner you wish. But when you beat all drums at the same time, alls anyone hears is the noise. No beats to it???

Now FOAK I'm not here with any hidden efforts up my sleave to be putting you down. Just passing thoughts amongst one another.

Dob!!

[fatherofaking]

Hey Dob, what are you trying to say?
You rarely say anything in a straight forward manner.
Are you saying i am putting out to much information?

If there were someone here that is actually interested in discussing this stuff with me then i would only put out information relevant to the conversation.
Since there is no real conversation happening then i just put out whatever i feel the need to put out.
Yes it is a lot of information and i have not even scratched the surface.
I have over 200 websites on the NWO alone.
I have probably 12 to 1300 websites that have something to do with this subject.
From politics to science to religion.
It is a huge subject.
If it is confusing then i wish someone would say so.
I have no problem discussing this stuff.
Any questions (about the subject) are welcome.
Nothing personal please.
Attack the message not the messenger.

[ba2]

Jargon631:

...ba2: I fall in the same suit in thinking there's not much we can do should this new world order arrise. But in that same vein I know things from the Bible stating about where were not to worship this Beast.

(beast's are refured to in the Bible as kingdom's)

In the final act written in the Bible it tells where Satan sit's down on his thrown in Jerusalem. He commands all to then worship him as God...

...But here's the kicker!!! God says you better not worship this beast, as your life swings in the balance...

Dob!!

So why not simply teach your children (and others) to keep from worshiping (as you put it)the beast? Why the big scare tactic? Teach your children to live a good life and the reward will follow. What the likes of FOAK does is feed the flames. He helps the huckster take advantage?

Don't get me wrong. I believe it is our duty to keep a watchfull eye on our politicians. Keep them honest. But that doesn't mean we should get paranoid about it. This "New World Order" conspiracy theory is a waste of time and has the potential to hurt the gullible. It might make a good movie plot, but there is nothing to it.

Next I'm going to hear that Rima Laibow really has been abducted by aliens from outer space. Maybe I just had my memory erased by those Men in Black!

[fatherofaking]

Next I'm going to hear that Rima Laibow really has been abducted by aliens from outer space. Maybe I just had my memory erased by those Men in Black!

Do your own research ba2.
Otherwise what you continue to do is to make a fool of yourself.

I could give you plenty of information on this subject.
In fact i did give you something else and you have not said a word about it.
Look through the thread (if you even care) and find The World according to Monsantos.
After you watch that ( i doubt you will watch even 5 minutes of it) then come back and comment on it.

I know you won't because you have found what you perceive as a weak spot and you are continuing to poke at it.
You are only here to attack me personally and cry about how i am somehow helping hucksters to rip people off.

This is a waste of my time and everyone else's.

[ba2]

...I have over 200 websites on the NWO alone.
I have probably 12 to 1300 websites that have something to do with this subject.
From politics to science to religion.
It is a huge subject...


So maybe this is how you make your living?

I probably spent about 20-25 hours researching the nonsense you have been posting. You are absolutly right, this is a big waste of time. I didn't bother looking into your last few posts. I am convinced that your are either dishonest or paranoid. Maybe even dangerous.

[fatherofaking]

So maybe this is how you make your living?

I probably spent about 20-25 hours researching the nonsense you have been posting. You are absolutly right, this is a big waste of time. I didn't bother looking into your last few posts. I am convinced that your are either dishonest or paranoid. Maybe even dangerous.

Fine then what are you doing here?
If you have any proof of your allegations against the material or me then let me know.
Otherwise just go play your games somewhere else.

[ba2]

I have been having a decent conversation going with dob. When I feel that has run its course, I will leave this thread. I never said I was leaving this thread, but I am pretty sure you said it a number of times.

If you understood anything, you would understand how difficult it is to prove that theories, especially the likes of conspiracy theories, are false. You can point out the questionable status of the people making the claim. You can show how they have been making a living perpetuating a questionable concept. You can show how statements of so called proof are taken out of context. The most important statistic of any researcher is what is known as "face" validity. In other words, does the data support the conclusion and does the conclusion make sense? Nothing mathematical about it, simply "does it pass the smell test?"