Cultbusters really is a Cult [Archive]

godchild

12-06-2006, 09:34 PM

terlu, Why would you apologise for something you had no part in.

It's time each and every member of Cultbusters write a letter to Arnold Murray ourselves. I'm certainly going to. Enough is enough. If something isn't done, who knows what they will try next. Here is the address:

The Shepherd's Chapel
PO Box 416
Gravette, AR 72736 USA

What makes this doubly aggregious is these people have been reading from there and are obviously aware of Admin's serious health problems and the fact that his family lives in the Philippines which has just had another devastating destructive mudslide at the cost of hundreds of lives that have left children orphaned makes me sick to my stomach. This kind of seriously irresponsible behavior needs to stop! Right now!

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 09:34 PM

Rachel, hopefully you were kidding about me posting porno stuff. Which I'm almost positive you were kidding. I would never think of doing such a thing.

I was being funny-thay have been having problems with that lately so the admin may have been doing some clean-up.I don't think he would ban you-unless you were harassing-he keeps dowen around and he knows he's your friend!

godchild

12-06-2006, 09:35 PM

If you're not a member, YOU DON'T GET BANNED!

terluvire

12-06-2006, 09:37 PM

Angie, thanks! I missed that post of godchild's
Quote:
smyrna has bragged about shutting down another site. It is shocking to think that people would call themselves Christian's and do such things. God help them!

You really should be ashamed of yourself godchild. I'm sure you know full well that they were not talking about hacking a site.

Like Angie said: he and watchman only challenged another sites lies they were posting until she stopped doing it.

terluvire

12-06-2006, 09:40 PM

godchild
Quote:
If you're not a member, YOU DON'T GET BANNED!

How do you know I'm not? The only difference is that I didn't log in for I couldn't, and many many times I don't log in, I just read.

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 09:41 PM

godhild your a great lady- I loved the christmas thoughts you posted there today-very beautiful!

godchild

12-06-2006, 09:42 PM

Angie, Did I say smyrna "hacked" a site? NO! If you consider what he does as Christian behavior, you are as bad as he is. And I would put nothing past you! You all have done nothing but insult and assault Cultbusters (not cultblunders) ever since you got banned. Shame on you!

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 09:45 PM

people who are naughty - get banned!!!!

godchild

12-06-2006, 09:48 PM

Thank you, rachel. It's a bittersweet memory for me because my mother has disowned me for leaving the mormon church. THIS IS WHAT CULTS DO!!!

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 09:51 PM

I can relate to that! And I am sorry as well to hear it!

terluvire

12-06-2006, 09:52 PM

Well, I've never posted anything at CB to be banned. So I'm not quite sure what to think about this.

All I know is that this is the message I get:

This Account Has Been Suspended

Again, I will apologize here if this message was caused by technical difficulties.

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 09:55 PM

This Account Has Been Suspended-yeah it's just technical difficulties-I had that message too.. No biggy it will be back up and you can peer in again.. R

terluvire

12-06-2006, 09:58 PM

lol Thanks Rachel. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I offer my deepest apologies to all connected to Cultbusters

angie0401

12-06-2006, 10:02 PM

Angie, Did I say smyrna "hacked" a site? NO!
Oh, please! You are up to your normal tactics of trying to twist things around and imply that smyrna had something to do with this. Why else would you have posted that right after a post about the cultbusters site being down?

You fool no one, you know.

terluvire

12-06-2006, 10:03 PM

Rachel, I want to thank you for your demenor towards me in this thread. You did not personally attack me as godchild and arron did.

They could have tried to show me that it might have possibly been technical difficulties, but no...they went on the personal attack right away. Gee, how is that showing Christian behavior? And I doubt very highly that I will get an apology from them for their awful behavior toward me.

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 10:04 PM

Happy Holidays to Jews, Gentile and Kenites all around the world!!!

No problem Ter-I just try to be the comedy relief once in awhile- when things get too serious btw does your name have special meaning ter and how do I pronounce it!

(Message edited by rachelengland on December 06, 2006)

godchild

12-06-2006, 10:06 PM

You want to see some of smyrna's tactics, go here:
RantingAnn
SHE HAS ALSO EARNED HER PLACE ON THIS SCRIPTURE TRUTH ALTERNATIVE WEBSITE, AS ... YOUR TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I AM SPAMMING THIS WEBSITE! ...
www.scripturetruth.homestead.com/RantingAnn.html (http://www.scripturetruth.homestead.com/RantingAnn.html) - 14k - Cached - More from this site

Ann made the mistake of posting on smyrna's website in the "guest area". He did everything in his power to shut her up, and finally succeeded. Not by banning her, by tactics like this:
Ann Friday, 9/5/03, 1:29 PM
Hey YOU - Spammer person whoever you are - I see what your doing ! Just like you did last year at this time. YOUR TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I AM SPAMMING THIS WEBSITE! I have been observing it - but today you really showed all your colors! I see the Upside down question mark in your post down there.( Left behind ya sure)

Just like you tagged my computer last year when I posted my Ann Post it had upside down question marks all through it ! RIGHT ! The Moderator REPOSTED it out of Spite and cleaned it up when they reposted it! Here lets do a test and see if you STILL have my computer tagged - do they still print upside down when I use quote marks or apostraphes lets see boys -- '''' or """.

I have been careful to not use them. You are the REAL game player and Liar. Now you come back to this website and try and make it look like I am spamming it by putting upside down question marks inside your phony posts ! What a creep you are ! Also How come you talk about the Rapture Ready website all the time. I know why - because that is how I get here. And you know that because you are able to track my computer! And don't call me parnoid! I have reasonable doubts to question your motives and your ability to do this! Your Reprobate mind needs converted.
--------------------
Of course he made his excuses for all this, just as he does here. He thinks this is funny! It's not funny, it's sick! And the other scer's laugh right along with him!

terluvire

12-06-2006, 10:14 PM

Hi Rachel,

Ter is part of my first name and the rest means love Ireland. My father's side comes from Ireland.

I pronounce it as ter...love....Ire (short for Ireland)

I wasn't good with picking usernames when I first got online. My cousin has a username similar, so I just copied part of her's..lol

Again, thanks Rachel. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

godchild

12-06-2006, 10:17 PM

ter, Thank you for the apology. It would make things much easier if you folks would stop jumping to conclusions. (Did you read that, angie?) By starting a new thread with that title your action came back to bite you. I hope you have learned a good lesson here. I don't consider you as enemies, only as confused.

What I showed proved that "some", if not all the scer's here do use hateful tactics, tactics that are totally against what Christianity is about.

I'm going to ask for a favor from all of you. After a search for the past 11 or 12 days a young father's body was found. His family became stranded in the mountains over a recent snow-storm we had. He left them in the car and went for help. His wife and infant were rescued, but searchers have been looking for him ever since as we all have prayed for his safe return. Please pray for this mother and child, that God will bring peace to their souls.

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 10:21 PM

I'm praying!

We can at least agree on that!

godchild

12-06-2006, 10:22 PM

rachel, I have an important message for Franklin. If you can contact him please ask him to email me. I hope he has my address. It's about the site.

rachelengland

12-06-2006, 10:26 PM

I will let him know! You can always email me at rachelengland@yahoo.com and I can pass your email onto him- that is up to you!

terluvire

12-06-2006, 10:29 PM

godchild, I didn't post this with intentional malice. I really did think I was banned. How was I to know it was technical difficulties? It wouldn't be a far stretch for me to think I was banned.

You could have just posted that there were problems with the site instead of going on the attack.

But again I do apologize. I wish I had never posted this thread. I am sorry.

Quote:
I'm going to ask for a favor from all of you. After a search for the past 11 or 12 days a young father's body was found. His family became stranded in the mountains over a recent snow-storm we had. He left them in the car and went for help. His wife and infant were rescued, but searchers have been looking for him ever since as we all have prayed for his safe return. Please pray for this mother and child, that God will bring peace to their souls.

I certainly will be praying for him, that he makes a safe return. I will also pray that God comforts their hearts while going through this ordeal.

In Jesus' precious name...Amen.

angie0401

12-06-2006, 10:36 PM

It's time each and every member of Cultbusters write a letter to Arnold Murray ourselves. :-)

Oh no, we might have our membership to SC revoked. Oh wait, you don't have to be a member or answer to anyone at SC, so I guess that won't happen. I guess it's just more proof that we are not a cult.

Have fun writing that letter, Vivian. Be sure and include your thoughts on us being red-faced devils/heretics/racists who should all get together and commit suicide. MMM what a lovely witness you are, Viv. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

terluvire

12-06-2006, 10:41 PM

lol Angie, that's funny..lol There is no official membership at SC..lol We can't get kicked out..lol How would anyone stop us from watchiing on tv..lol Funny stuff! lol

godchild

12-06-2006, 11:25 PM

ter, I didn't go to cultbusters today. When you said you were banned, I took your word for it. I don't see what being banned has to do with a site being a 'cult'. That's why I wrote my response. If my reponse was going on the attack, then your starting this thread and posting what you did was an attack. I simply answered it. No attack there.
Thank you for the prayers for the family. They found his body. So heartbreaking for a young family.

I'm aware there is no membership with sc. I am also aware that am/sc controls what 'students' put on websites. There's a long page of posts at the 'fig tree' about one 'student' who was very upset because am/sc associate contacted him and told him to stop putting am/sc lessons on his website. The guy felt he was only sharing the doctrines of am/sc.

So I do think am would have concerns about all of this going on.

How long must I apologise for things I said long ago? I believe I have apologised three times, at least. I have moved ahead, while some wish to harbor their anger, and dwell on it. These things cause cancer, it will eat a person away if they refuse to let go. But that is their choice. I have forgiven watchman for what he called me, and he didn't even apologise. That's okay, though. It's past. I will continue to ask God's blessings on you all.

terluvire

12-06-2006, 11:38 PM

godchild Quote:
I'm aware there is no membership with sc. I am also aware that am/sc controls what 'students' put on websites. There's a long page of posts at the 'fig tree' about one 'student' who was very upset because am/sc associate contacted him and told him to stop putting am/sc lessons on his website.

You are a funny one godchild.lol The one who contacted one of the SC students was because of posting copywritten material. That's it. Gee, do you really think PM keeps tabs on us here? lol He probably doesn't even know about FN..lol I have personally never ever spoken to PM or anyone working at SC.

Quote:
ter, I didn't go to cultbusters today. When you said you were banned, I took your word for it. I don't see what being banned has to do with a site being a 'cult'. That's why I wrote my response. If my reponse was going on the attack, then your starting this thread and posting what you did was an attack.

Rachel posted:
terluvire-they probably figured out you were posting pornographic spam under another name and blocked you from all sides. You naughty thing!!!

You posted:
rachel, You must be right. This is horrendous, that people would stoop so low. We know scer's have tried to post there under other names, watchman admitted it, and terlu said she reads there all the time. They had to post under other names. People can't be banned just for reading, they have to register. Shame on you! This is purely evil!

Now I suspected Rachel was kidding, but you on the other hand were not. That was uncalled for, regarless if I was truly banned or not.

terluvire

12-06-2006, 11:39 PM

I'm so sorry to hear about that man. I do pray that comforts his family at his time.

aferrill

12-06-2006, 11:43 PM

I can't get into cultbusters either. I signed up a few days ago. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

terluvire

12-06-2006, 11:47 PM

Hello Aferrill,

I do believe that they truly are having technical difficulties. Hopefully soon it will be all straighten out.

godchild, I do want to say that I can see this discussion heading in all kinds of direction and I do not want to be a part of it. I'm done on this thread with the tit for tat stuff.

Really....I'm done. I'm not going to go there with you.

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 12:17 AM

godchild,

You do lie when you claim that I tried to post under a different name. I switched internet providers and rec'd a new I.P. address. When I tried to register, I was banned.

Yes, cultblunders is a cult -- the cult of anti-truth.

observer

12-07-2006, 12:32 AM

Anyone who believes that they have a monopoly on truth, that their interpretation of the Bible is right and all others are wrong, belong to a cult. The Cult of I'm Right and You're Wrong.

godchild

12-07-2006, 01:01 AM

watchman, Name or IP, the point is you tried to reregister AFTER BEING BANNED.

terlu, My reaction was not uncalled for. It was a normal reaction considering the trouble you people have tried to cause there. You started this thread, don't try to dump your mistake on me. If you thought it was a joke, it was in very poor taste and immature. Just like your lol's usually are.

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 01:34 AM

godchild,

No -- the point is that I was banned FOR TEACHING THE TRUTH!

The cultist scripture police at cultblunders will have none of that.

yahslittleone

12-07-2006, 01:48 AM

Quote:
I'm going to ask for a favor from all of you. After a search for the past 11 or 12 days a young father's body was found. His family became stranded in the mountains over a recent snow-storm we had. He left them in the car and went for help. His wife and infant were rescued, but searchers have been looking for him ever since as we all have prayed for his safe return. Please pray for this mother and child, that God will bring peace to their souls.

I have been following this story too. This man is a hero in my eyes. Praying they find him alive, but it doesn't look good. What love this man had for his family to do what he did! He gave his share of the food to the wife and kids. God bless him.
Alice

yahslittleone

12-07-2006, 01:52 AM

Sorry, didn't see that they had found his body. So sad.
Alice

observer

12-07-2006, 02:20 AM

watchman2, you say that you were banned "for teaching the truth." Well, you know, everyone thinks that their particular slant on the Bible is TRUTH. There are so many denominations, sects, cults, and organizations that believe they have the corner on truth. You are just one of many. Your truth is not someone else's truth; yet each of you think you have the only truth. Please, keep it to yourself and do something worthwhile other than coming here and pretending that your truth is better than everyone else's truth. It just seems to me that nobody has THE TRUTH, only a small part of a much larger Truth...and together, by comparing what we find, we can probably get a glimpse at the Whole Truth, whatever that is.

llm

12-07-2006, 02:54 AM

That is a great point and that is why I have tried to lay out other pieces of the puzzle...
Like the LXX vs MT, Edomites, fixed earth, divine pageant, bibletime guy, David Eells and corporate bodies, the Overcomers Refuge, etc. I don't care if you agree with everything they say, but they all make very convincing arguments for their positions...When you have a one man show it gets very lopsided. I have been through the bible from beginning to end at least 50 times, the New Testament over 100, and Revelation around 200 times, and I still feel like I have hardly scratched the surface, but I sure love the poetry of the bible so I search it every day.

godchild

12-07-2006, 03:16 AM

Alice, It is a very sad story. They took him to Central Pt. for an autopsy to see how long he survived out there. I was so touched by a state trooper who said "We have all been praying for him". So many people gave a great effort to find him. Of that we can be thankful, that people care. Thank God.

dodge

12-07-2006, 05:02 AM

You can always tell if an organization is a cult if there is a sign on the front door that says "The Authentic Fellowship of the One and Only Real Truth. MEMBERS ONLY!" Other indications that you may belong to a cult:

There are no "Exit" signs.

Members are not allowed to phone home.

The Authentic Fellowship of the One and Only Real Truth van has a gun rack.

Instead of taking your offering, the group takes your offspring.

Refreshments feature red Kool-Aid.

The leader demands that members refer to him as "Grand Exalted Lord and Ruler."

The choir robes have hoods.

The Grand Exalted Lord and Ruler's lecture notes have been canonized as Scripture.

And finally, you know you belong to a cult if the cross is on fire.

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 06:26 AM

observer,

God's Truth is not my truth. He wrote His letter, the Bible, for all. So, when I indicated that I was banned at cultblunders for teaching the Truth, I was not in error.

If you don't like the Truth, tough!

david_munson

12-07-2006, 02:18 PM

Yes,
God's truth is not Watchman's truth.
Isaiah 55:8-11 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

See the difference?

}

eagleman

12-07-2006, 04:05 PM

Elect of God, I think we are wasting our time here. all of us are throwing pearls before swine and they are stomping on the beautiful truth of God's word that we have been intrusted with from our Father. we are in a war and they hate us and the reason why they are attacking us all over the internet and elsewhere is because we are rocking the boat and the kenites are very disturbed because we are messing with there money. we know thier is a enmity between the seed lines and we are seeing it every where. we can not change them, only our Father can open thier eyes. so why do we continue to give them truth when they are only here to mess with us and get us mad. Beloved remember when satan contended with michael about the body of moses. he did not bring a ralling acusation against him. he just rebuked him and thats what we must start doing to them. remember what Paul said rebuke them strongly so they become stong in the faith. our Lord gave us the most perfect example. dress them down and leave them standing wondering what happen and then leave them alone. He did not argue with the enemy. He did say pray for them and love your enemy. Thats all we can do. they are blind and some here are just kenites and christ said leave them alone. remember satans favorite past time is to argue and acuse like they do. This will just go round and round,they say we are the enemy. let them believe what ever they want to. I mean look what is happening we are arguing with an athiest, lets just drees them down, rebuke and send them on thier way until they seek us out. lets show them who is realy obeying the Lord. because thats what He did and that is what Arnold Murray has taught us over the years, plant the seed and move on. they are wasting our time in the field. we have alot of work to do and we can not talk to A.B.C Christians A.K.A - All but Christ. they do not have the spirit that can awake them from thier sleep at this time. really we are just wasting our time we should just ignore them. I invite all the elect to the chat room on the web site. we can all talk there and forget about these jokers. that is why me and David made the chat room, for all of us. please use it. we can fellowship there and then if we go to the passover next year then we can fellowship there. think about it. Lets not waste our time, instead lets grow as a body and study together in the chat room and the message board we made. Stay strong in Him.www.christschurchofthezadok.com (http://www.christschurchofthezadok.com)

God bless His Elect: Paul

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 05:11 PM

eagleman you are crack-up!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

godchild

12-07-2006, 06:37 PM

poor eagleman, Nothing he says or does can get these fellows students of am/sc to go to his site set up specially for study and fellowship with likeminded people. They don't want to go. They would rather stay here at a site for discussing cults, of which their's is one. They've shared their false doctrines here more than once, and say so. They say this is their place and that Christians should leave. How much sense does this make? We have read their false doctrines and reject them as non-biblical. Let them stay and we will continue to show them the error of their ways.

angie0401

12-07-2006, 06:48 PM

OK - first show us how SC is a cult.

By the way - you have no idea if any of us do or do not go to Paul's site.

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 06:55 PM

eagleman8,

Many stay here to defend the Word of Truth not in effort to turn the hearts and minds of those detractors to the Truth that frequent these threads, for, truly, they demonstrate that they are workers of iniquity and care not for the Word of God. But, we continue to defend our Father's Truth for the sake of the many whom frequent these threads, but do not post, and whom truly seek a greater understanding of God's Word.

Those jackals at cultblunders, whom devise nefarious plots and schemes to defeat the SCers, are no match for God's Word. They are laid waste [theologically] for the vultures to devour each and every time they attack.

I trust that the good Lord will open the eyes to see and ears to hear of those whom He will as they visit these threads.

eagleman

12-07-2006, 06:55 PM

Check this out every one, you will like this or maybe you already know of this site. www.biblestudysite.com (http://www.biblestudysite.com)

eagleman

godchild

12-07-2006, 07:02 PM

I've been reading am's newsletters. Fascinating in that the poor man doesn't have a command of the English language. He says 'daub' means 'whitewash' in Hebrew. What daub means in the Hebrew (in reference to the verses in Exekiel that discuss "daub with untempered mortar") is "smear". It's a word that denotes action. Whitewash isn't mortar. Mortar is what holds the rocks of a building together. Pitch. Untempered is like if you are making a metal sword and don't 'temper' (put it in the fire long enough)it properly, the sword will easily break. It will be soft. Whitewash is a cheap paint. Paint doesn't hold our houses together. I'm sure he is suggesting whitewash is a good definition because we now use that word as 'hiding something' or a 'cover-up'. I doubt that whitewash was a word used in that way in Old Testament times.

This is just the beginning of his interpretation. Who would believe anything he says after that. But let's go on and give him another chance.

Oh, I guess I should cut and paste that first quote so I won't be called a liar, even though after being steadfast students for so long, I'm sure they've read or heard this before:
quote:
Does the word "Peace" sound familiar? God's Word tells us they built a wall intended to make us feel safe, but they whitewashed it using untempered morter.

Ezekiel 13:11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower, and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

Daub may be translated whitewashed from the Hebrew.
(salutation and signature)
In His Service,

Arnold Murray
---------------------
He has totally screwed up the correct interpretation of these verses.

terluvire

12-07-2006, 07:15 PM

Eze 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered mortar:
Eze 13:11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered mortar, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

Daubed in the Hebrew:
H2902
t&#803;uach
too'-akh
A primitive root; to smear, especially with lime: - daub, overlay, plaister, smut.

godchild, you did not give the full definition of the word Daubed.

Read those verses godchild. Does it seem God is pleased with what they are doing? No. God is speaking to the prophets of Israel:
Eze 13:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;
Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

They are coving up God's truth with their lies they make up in their own minds.

godchild

12-07-2006, 07:16 PM

I want to go back to the beginning of this newsletter. The very beginning is a lie, the title is a lie, and the first sentence is another lie:

Dr. Arnold Murray, DRE

DON'T TEACH MY PEOPLE TO FLY

The title of this newsletter is an instruction from our Father.
-------------------------
am isn't a doctor. He has been forced to admit his 'doctorate' comes from reading the Bible. Which reminds me, the scer's never responded to or answered the question as to why they do not use am's bible, his own translation that he had copywrited and titled "The Shepherd's Bible".

Nowhere does the Holy Bible say "don't teach my people to fly". am uses Ezekiel as his evidence, when we know he was telling the people not to listen to or use psychics or diviners, sorcerer's.

Then he goes on to say the title is instruction from God? It's not instruction from God in the way am wants to make it, it's instruction from the fake doctor murray. Still want to follow him? Let's move on.

angie0401

12-07-2006, 07:37 PM

I want you to show us how SC is a cult.

godchild

12-07-2006, 07:38 PM

quote:
There is one warning Jesus gave that I donâ€™t want you to ever forget. This warning is given to us in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and repeated in Luke 21. Jesus instructed us to be careful not to be deceived. He was especially concerned about those that will be deceived by those coming in His name, supposedly good Christian preachers and teachers. Christ instructed us to learn from His Word, not from the words of men, lest you be deceived. (Why didn't am take his own words to heart. He thinks he is special, he thinks it is alright to change words in the Holy Bible.)
To put this in perspective Christ was speaking of the end days. He taught us through a parable. Christ told us the world is a field. God let it out to husbandmen. That is to say He let it out to His children, or Christians that they might tend to it.
----------------------

God gave this earth to Christians? The Bible does not say this. The earth is for ALL men, and certainly not just those am calls Christians. Jesus said "Whosoever will may come".

terluvire

12-07-2006, 07:49 PM

Hi Angie,

I don't think that godchild will answer you. She seems to be all over the place today. Hopping from one thing to another.

I thinks she's trying to make us dizzy..lol But she will only cause herself to stumble.

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 07:49 PM

godchild,

Please document which newsletter you are referring to.

Oh, yes, let's be reminded of how wonderful man's ordination is with GTP. Remember his expletives when he was called out for being a phoney in the Lake of Fire thread.

You see, godchild, man's ordination only means that man has completed the course work and practice that is required of man at any specific institute. Such ordination does not ensure that the teachings of such institutions are true.

One can get their PHD in a field of evolution; yet, there is not an iota of truth behind the fundamental theorem of evolution, genus change.

Likewise, your hero, Jack Van Impe, has all of the accreditation that you seek; yet, he is a 'rapturist', which any beginning Bible student can prove unbiblical. Van Impe goes so far as to claim that Rev. 4:1 speaks of the 'rapture'.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. 

Gee -- I didn't see anything in that scripture regarding obtaining a PHD from a godchild-approved institute of theology. I wonder why? Could it have something to do with that Niocene Creed [eagleman8 addressed] that godchild professed loyalty to?

godchild

12-07-2006, 07:57 PM

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowls of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and every creeping thing that creepeth over the earth. Was Adam a Christian? The New Testament tells us Jesus Christ is the last Adam. Adam walked and talked with God. At the time of Adam, did the world need a 'messiah'? Christian is defined as a 'follower' of Jesus Christ, the messiah. Jesus Christ wasn't born until thousands of years later. You will not find the word 'Christian' in the Old Testament. But scer's teach that Christians were angels in heaven before coming to earth, before man. That's why, according to him, they don't need free-will, they were literally picked by God in heaven for their 'works' there.

godchild

12-07-2006, 08:20 PM

scer's have said they do not study astrology, and yet their own words show that they lie. They in fact say the Holy Bible reflects it:
Quote:
God's Word reflects all of the sciences; mathematics, physics, the earth sciences, political science, astronomy. astrology. In the ancient manuscripts, the placement of each and every letter and word, sound, number, person's name, name of a place, has a hidden meaning?. One man couldn't live long enough, to decipher the whole of God's Word, but any man can come to understand the essence of God's overall plan.

He is saying, that those who take upon themselves the attributes of Christ, need not fear death, and that they are heirs to the glory, honor and authority with Him. The millenium will be a kingdom of priests and kings and queens. They will be a part of the kingdom of God, not because He rules over them, but because they reign with Him. (BASED ON REV.20:6)(They forget the Bible calls Jesus Christ "The KING OF KINGS". You will not be gods!)

Only after satan is devoured by fire out of heaven from Almighty God, does the final judgment commence. The basis of the judgment are recorded in two sets of records, one kept in earth and the other in heaven. The first set of books are records of the works that were done by each soul in the first earth age, (more am/sc lies) and in this earth age, or during the millenium(more lies); And the book of life, is the record which is kept in heaven, of those whom accepted Christ, in the first earth age, this earth age or during the millenium(lies), as their Lord and Saviour.

Welcome to theseason.org Christian Website Links

godchild

12-07-2006, 08:23 PM

Ok, Dr.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifwatchman. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 08:58 PM

godchild,

Gen. 1:26 has nothing to do with Adam. You are in error again [as usual].

The Tree of Life was in the Garden of Eden. Christ is the Tree of Life.

You lie when you write, scer's teach that Christians were angels in heaven before coming to earth, before man.

Everyone born of woman has a spiritual body that existed in the first age. For the 3 ages, see II Pet. 3:5-7. These spiritual bodies, which are the angels of this second age, are whom God is talking to in Gen. 1:26 [the word "our" being the Hebrew "eloheem", meaning God and the angels].

There is predestination [in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world] for those that overcame Satan in the first age [it would be unfair to lose their salvation due to free will in the second age]. The Bible speaks of these people as "the elect", "the saints", and "the annointed" so that a child [not a godchild] could understand.

Astrology is not a science and SCers do not promote it.

The "elect" are the priests in the millennium for they will not bow a knee to Satan as will you rapturists.

We have been through all of your false accusations before. What purpose does it serve to prove you wrong all over again? By now, most everyone should know that you have no credibility here at Factnet and that you are a vile, twisted, unscrupulous worker of iniquity.

angie0401

12-07-2006, 09:02 PM

I see that Vivian is back to her old tricks. I guess there really isn't anything new under the sun...

By the way, Viv, weren't you going to show us that SC is a cult?

david_munson

12-07-2006, 09:21 PM

Watchman,

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

It has everything to do with Adam.
YOU are in error.
You are denying the Word of God as usual for man's teachings.

}

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 09:46 PM

Angie said-By the way, Viv, weren't you going to show us that SC is a cult?

You're the ELECT!! Doesn't that say enoughhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

watchman_2

12-07-2006, 10:04 PM

David,

How many times do we have to post the truth before it gets through your thick skull?? [rhetorical question]

First, name me the Bible translation that renders the word "man" in Gen. 1:26 as "Adam". There must be a reason why no one renders "man" as "Adam" in this scripture. It is because THE SCRIPTURE IS NOT ABOUT ADAM.

The word utilized in Gen. 1:26 is,

H120
&#1488;&#1491;&#1501;
'a&#770;da&#770;m
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

Without the article and particle associated with the Hebrew spelling of the word and in the plural sense, the proper definition is "mankind" as emboldened above.

Look up the word God/our in your Strong's Concordance,

H430
&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;&#1497;&#1501;
'e&#774;lo&#770;hi&#770;ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

God is speaking to the angels and is creating mankind in the angels image.

You can also see that there was more than one purpose for the creation, denoting more than one type of man. All of the functions of mankind that was created on the 6th Day differ from the function [till the ground] given to the man "formed" in Gen. 2:7.

To the basic Bible beginning student, these differences are easily identifiable and dispositive of the fact that Adam was not the 6th Day creation.

It is you whom do greatly err in your understanding of the scriptures.

david_munson

12-07-2006, 10:15 PM

See above.
You're still in serious error.

}

angie0401

12-07-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote rachel:
Angie said-By the way, Viv, weren't you going to show us that SC is a cult?

You're the ELECT!! Doesn't that say enough

No, that's not what SC teaches. Pastor Murray teaches that there ARE elect, but he also plainly states that no one (including said elect) knows who the elect are.

Besides, I understand that most churches teach that all Christians are the elect. Should we now call them cults?

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 10:28 PM

That's not what EAGLEMAN(reminds me of BIRDMAN the cartoon character) said. He said,"Elect of God, I think we are wasting our time here". Did you read his above post???

The guys a total crack-uphttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

angie0401

12-07-2006, 10:43 PM

Are you talking about what eagleman teaches/believes or what Pastor Murray/SC teaches?

Eagleman is entitled to believe what he wants, but that's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the fact that SC is not a cult.

Are you now claiming that we are in a cult run by eagleman?

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 10:54 PM

hahahahaha you have a great way of twisting peoples words! Hey, I don't mind if you twist mine around but twistings Gods word is no joking matter!

And I think eagleman is a great admirer of your leader Arnold Murray...

angie0401

12-07-2006, 11:14 PM

What am I twisting?

I said:
I thought you were going to show us that SC is a cult

You responded with:
You're the ELECT!! Doesn't that say enough

I replied:
No, that's not what SC teaches.

Then you said:
That's not what EAGLEMAN(reminds me of BIRDMAN the cartoon character) said.

Now, really, are we discussing what eagleman believes or what our "cult leader" (LOL) teaches?
Eagleman may be an admirer of Pastor Murray (who is not my "leader"), but if we are discussing whether or not SC is a cult, we must discuss what the "cult" teaches, not what individuals think/teach/believe because cult members aren't allowed to think for themselves.

I'll ask again:
I understand that most churches teach that all Christians are the elect. Should we now call them cults?

Thanks

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 11:19 PM

Hi Alice, welcome back , we are so happy that you are
fellowshiping with us and the fact net board, well they just hate us
and Arnold Murray. we need to try to get the rest of the elect over
here so we can trully fellowship and grow together and study and not
have to deal with them. they just want to argue not be converted. we
could get a good study going here, we just need more elect. thats why
me and David started this web site to make a home for all of us to
fellowship and then we could meet up at the passover and fellowship
their. thank you for joining. look foward to you joining us in the chat
room friday night and you can use the chat room any time you want(this is from eman's sight)

eagleman just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they hate you-sounds very paranoid!

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 11:31 PM

I understand that most churches teach that all Christians are the elect. Should we now call them cults?

Yep-elect is not a good choice of word....thanks

angie0401

12-07-2006, 11:41 PM

I understand that most churches teach that all Christians are the elect. Should we now call them cults?

Yep-elect is not a good choice of word....thanks

So are you going to tell arron he's in a cult or should I?

rachelengland

12-07-2006, 11:55 PM

I'll let you!

godchild

12-07-2006, 11:59 PM

angie, I don't really care what you want.
To everyone else,
All anyone has to do is read some of am/sc stuff here and they can see it's a cult. Originally, I thought some of the members might just be unaware, but now I'm not so sure. God knows I hope they see the truth before it is too late.

am Set an end time date by claiming that the Antichrist would appear by 1981. This prediction, of course, turned out to be false. Quote: Lucifer was taken into the pit...know from the 2nd chapter of Thess. that he shall soon return. The book of Daniel very clearly states that it shall happen before the year 1981, if you have any understanding at all of the wisdom of the elect in the last days. (Seed of the Serpent, version taped in 1979).

Please read Deuteronomy 13:1

angie0401

12-08-2006, 12:00 AM

No thanks! He dislikes me enough already, even though I have taken up for him before.

(Just picking at you arron, no harm intended.)

dowen

12-08-2006, 12:03 AM

I don't think he would ban you-unless you were harassing-he keeps dowen around and he knows he's your friend! (RE)

I just caught this little jewel higher up on this thread, and couldn't let it go by without comment.
I get kept around huh? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif
Does than mean that I am part of the CB "elect"?

Oh gosh, CB is a cult.
RUN!!!

godchild

12-08-2006, 12:10 AM

Newletter by am

The wrong mind set leads people to worship someone, or something, other than God. If you are teaching the traditions of men that develops such a mind set, you are leading God’s children to hell. You are an enemy of God.

I Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

Do you know anyone that thinks it is strange that you believe the antichrist comes before Jesus Christ and that you don’t believe that there is a rapture?
--------------------------------
am states clearly here that those of us who believe in the rapture are going to hell and are enemies of God.

angie0401

12-08-2006, 12:14 AM

Just because YOU say SC is a cult, Vivian, doesn't make it so.
You can disagree with what is taught all day long, but again, that does NOT make SC a cult. There is no definition here on Factnet that even YOU can twist to justify labeling SC as a cult.
You should familiarize yourself with the markers of a real cult - it would probably help in your "cult busting".

angie0401

12-08-2006, 12:49 AM

dowen,
Does that mean you are a "kept man"? :-)

terluvire

12-08-2006, 02:36 AM

Hello Dowen,

You are always a breath of fresh air here!!!

A "kept man"..... ahhahhhh http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

godchild

12-08-2006, 05:58 AM

am/sc uses the fact that Cain's geneology isn't included. What about Adam and Eve's other sons and daughters? They aren't included either. Does this mean they are serpent seed? Of course not. Abel isn't in Adam's geneology either. His was a live birth and he lived for several years.

If the serpent was only a symbol, why would God put a curse on it? Gen. 3:14. In other verses in the Bible that talk about satan, it never says he crawls on his belly or eats dust. It is later that the serpent is used symbolically for satan referring back to this event.

am/sc uses verses which say "Those who say they are Jews but are not" as evidence this must be talking about the Kenites, or Cain's descendants, the serpent seed.

Romans 2:28-29 explains this: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Chapter 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way; chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

We must worship in spirit and truth. God looks at the heart. God is no respector of persons.

dowen

12-08-2006, 06:07 AM

I guess I am a kept man.
Oh well, I love my life.

So if being a "kept man" means being at Peace with all of you, and respecting all of you, regardless of your differences, then being kept is right where I want to be.

God bless you all,
DOwen.

terluvire

12-08-2006, 06:19 AM

Dowen, You are so sweet!

God bless,
Ter

angie0401

12-08-2006, 06:23 AM

D,
I just love you to pieces, do you know that?

God Bless YOU, my brother.

Angie

dowen

12-08-2006, 06:37 AM

Thanks ladies, you two just made my night.
I can't tell you how much I look forward to meeting you someday. Maybe here on Earth, more likely at the foot of the Throne, either way it will be glorious.

May God richly bless you,
Your friend in Him,

DOwen.

kimberlyfredrick

12-08-2006, 08:20 AM

EVERYONE!!!!

I am very tired so if I am in error please accept my apologies.

I think I read in an earlier post were Godchild spoke about the Admin. of Cultbusters being in the Philippines?(Yes they are in my prayers. Thank you for alerting me to this)

Anyway, I have a dear friend who is a minister who goes by the name of "Called" here on the neutral threads at FN. He and his family also live in the Philippines and since the Typhoon/flaming volcanic boulders etc he has not posted here nor have I or "Granite" been able to reach him by email.

PLEASE keep him in your prayers. He is Sabbataraian and his beliefs are comepletely different than ANYONE posting here but this man dearly loves the Lord and is trying his best to serve him in the manner in which he feels God has led him.

He has a wife and kids and she just recently had a miscarriage(I think he told me a week before the storm hit). He is our Brother and my friend. Thank you all for reading this and considering keeping him in your prayers.

Your Sister in Christ,

Kim Fredrick

kimberlyfredrick

12-08-2006, 08:23 AM

OH.....I forgot to tell EVERYONE here how much I miss posting to each of you.

Please take care of yourselves and know that dispite differences in Doctrines i love each and every one of you!

PS things are getting much better here in NE. I will try to find the time to update you guys as to whats going on.

rachelengland

12-08-2006, 04:04 PM

What are you feeding these girls Dowen-they seem to really love you, must be that 20 something southern charm you have?(lol)

smyrna

12-08-2006, 05:53 PM

Hello again folks, I've been busy at work. To clarify my role in the closing of the Scripture_truth website,I posted all sorts of challenges to the garbage Margie Plummer (the site's publisher)over and over. Being the fir minded person she is, Margie would quickly delete any posts that challenged her lies about the SC. Once, I did intentionally copy and paste enough of the older messages to the guestbok until the message quota was reached. But I did not do that more than once. Whoever did it when I was completely dismantling some guy who called himself Rex by way of debate, was most probably Margie herself!
In nay case, after myself and Watchman continually challenged her, caught her in lies she even had to admit, she finally shut the site down.
For Margie, it was an ego thing. All she really had to do was close her guestbook,and leave the rest of the site up. But without any of her cheerleading squad complimenting her, she just apparently felt she had to close the entire site.

Now as far as that whacko Ann is concerned,I never did anything to her, and never made anyone think she was spamming the Guestbook. She was just a sick, paranoid member of Margie's little army of misfits who actually believed all the nonsense on that site.
The woman wouldn't even talk to her own mother because she watched the Chapel program! How stupid is that?

Maybe Godchild should quit trying to smear me and tell us why she claimed the Chapel did not have a Church building, why she chose to use Bullinger to try and prove the Rapture doctrine when she claims he is incompetent, and why she feels she can even criticize Bullinger when she knows so little about the Bible, such as she didn't even know that the Septuagint and the LXX are one and the same.
Maybe she can also tell us how she can possibly confuse Astrology with Astronomy.

Now that I have some time, maybe I'll go back and read the archived messages here and dig up some other gems of Godchild's.
After all, she started the practice, until we found stuff like this that she wrote. Then all of a sudden she started whining about how we were ganging up on her. Give me a break. If she can't take the heat, she shouldn't have started dishing stuff up.

david_munson

12-08-2006, 06:56 PM

Hey all,
I'm with kimberlyfredrick on praying for these dear folks.
Let us all ,inspite of our disagreements ,hold these folks up in prayer.
Our prayers are effective in the lives of others.
James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Dave
}

smyrna

12-08-2006, 08:00 PM

It's really a stupid tactic to use the errors of a few SC students to try and show that those errors are the teachings of the Chapel.They wouldn't do that in any other setting. Do they take an error by perhaps one of their children's school classes, and then claim the teacher was at fault? Maybe they do, but it's just silly.

Now in the case of just another of Godchild's lies, I'll address this (one more time):

"Which reminds me, the scer's never responded to or answered the question as to why they do not use am's bible, his own translation that he had copywrited and titled "The Shepherd's Bible".

That question has been answered at least twice here at FN. "The Shepherd's Bible" was not a Bible version. It was a commentary. I have looked for a copy for years with no success.

Now Godchild also takes an alleged quote from som eanti-chapel website about an alleged Prediction on some Serpent's Seed tape that is claimed to exist. However, I don't know of anyone who has such a tape.

I suspect it is some rumor that gets passed from site to site, since many of these anti-chapel sites merely copy stuff from each other.

As for his Doctorate in Religious education, the detractors first claimed he got it from some guy named Roy Gillespie, but since they couldn't prove that rumor, now they just say he gave it to himself! They can't even keep their lies straight!

I know why he won't tell anyone where he earned the doctorate. Because no matter where he got it, that institution would be deluged by email and phone calls from nutcases like Franklin, Godchild,Arron, et. al., and that is no way to thank an institution for educating anyone. Murray is fully aware of the whining and mocking coming from the detractors. I wouldn't give them any ammo either.

It's his choice not to divulge this info, and as I've said before, considering what's coming out of the so-called great seminaries these days, I'd be glad if he didn't even go to any of them!

By the way, he is known to be a very good domestic archaeologist. Just type in Yahoo Arnold Murray archaeologist and look at entries 4-7.

And check THIS out from http://waac.info/amazigh/reports/Mahan_historical_context_of_burrows_cave.html "In very brief form I have narrated circumstances I know from the history of North Africa and the Roman Empire which relate to the information from the Burrows Cave inscriptions which Paul Schaffranke and *****Arnold Murray***** will give in their papers. [The author refers to lectures at the Determining the Truth, II ISAC Symposium, Columbus, GA, April 21-22, 1995 -- Editor.] There is much more that I know from North American history and archaeology which pertain to these inscriptions as well. Most of this knowledge I have recorded for you in my books The Secret16 and North American Sun Kings17, but there is more yet to be learned."

watchman_2

12-08-2006, 08:36 PM

smyrna,

I couldn't agree more regarding PM's not divulging information regarding his education. It would serve no worthwhile purpose in disclosing such information.

The jackals hate him for his teachings. They would still hate him even if he received his DRE from the fundamentalists' most prestigious institute. It is only relevant to those that already hate him. So, let them hate in confusion.

Regarding the alleged 1979 prediction, it is simply hearsay until someone produces the evidence. Yet, these jackals spread it around like it was fact.

rachelengland

12-08-2006, 10:10 PM

ahhhhhh the two love birds Watchman and Smyrna have found each other again . Now they can bask in the radiance of their false teaching, mock others and worship their great teacher Arnold Murray. How wonderful!!!

smyrna

12-08-2006, 10:34 PM

Yes Watchman, and even the detractors have backed off the charge of this supposed prediction. I only come across it on outdated websites, and have never come across anyone that is a student of SC who has ever heard of such a tape from the Chapel.
I've asked about it on several SC oriented discussion boards, and have never heard of anyone claiming to have the tape, and they only heard about it from anti-chapel sources, so that should be a clue to point to the probability it is just a rumor.

dodge

12-09-2006, 12:09 AM

At the Religious Tolerance website, on a page that lists false dates for the apocalypse, it states that "Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel predicted that the war of Armageddon will start on June 8-9, 1985 in a valley of the Alaskan peninsula." Just scroll down to the year 1985.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm

religioustolerance.org is not an anti-Murray/Shepherd's Chapel orgainization.

angie0401

12-09-2006, 12:33 AM

What are you feeding these girls Dowen-they seem to really love you, must be that 20 something southern charm you have?(lol)

I really do love Dowen and for many reasons, but here are the Top 10:
10.) I think his shark has a cute smile.
9.) He has always shown us respect.
8.) He spoke words of encouragement when I needed them the most.
7.) He has steadfastly refused to engage in hurtful remarks and hateful attitudes.
6.) He truly shows love towards others, even if we have slightly different beliefs.
5.) He has always been a calming influence in the chaos here at FN.
4.) I've never seen him go to ANY thread simply to attack others.
3.) He never seeks to sew discord.
2.) I do have a soft spot for them Southern boys, but I imagine he's probably young enough to hang out with my kids.
1.) He is my brother in Christ.

There are many here who should follow in his footsteps.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 12:46 AM

Dodge wrote:

"religioustolerance.org is not an anti-Murray/Shepherd's Chapel orgainization"

It certainly isn't a pro-chapel site!

In any case, I do admit hearing Murray say it was his OPINION that the battle of Gog and Magog may be fought in the Alaskan peninsula, because he felt that Russia would be involved, and up there Russia and the U.S are not too far apart. In any case, I never heard him set any date for this.
An opinion is not a prediction.

It's time for Dodge to get out of Dodge.

"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God"

Psalm 14

david_munson

12-09-2006, 02:11 AM

I disagree with Mr.Murray but I certainly do not hate the man.
I know that some people are like that but we can't all be put into one basket just because we don't agree.
We are supposed to love all men simply because God does and he asks us to do the same.

Arnold Murray isn't my enemy and neither is any other man.
Still ,
people will think that way even though it's wrong.

}

godchild

12-09-2006, 02:32 AM

Kim, So happy to hear things are going well for you and yours. I will remember called and his family in my prayers.

God bless you and them!

godchild

12-09-2006, 02:41 AM

Does anyone need to know the LXX and the Septaugint are the same to understand the Word of God? Where is it written.........http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

smyrna, You should realize by now your opinion of me doesn't matter. I am not important. I am only special because of God's mercy. My righteousness is only as rags. Only the Lord's opinion matters.

franklin

12-09-2006, 02:45 AM

I do not hate am, the SCers or anyone I can think of. Hate, hatred is not in my vocabulary, not in my mind or heart. Hatred is poison and is not of God. I do not know of any Christian who criticizes arnie or his followers who "hates" either.

But I do "dislike" what am has done to pervert God's word. And the only reason I believe that he has perverted God's word is HIS hatred for Jews, blacks and orientals. It is readily apparent that hatred is in the hearts of the SCers.

godchild

12-09-2006, 03:00 AM

watchman, You are the one who brought the information here just recently, and suggesting though am was wrong, you now have figured out the right date. God hates lies! Didn't you also say that's what caused you to get banned from 'the fig tree'? My goodness, how the story changes when confronted with the truth.

It was am who said he was taught by Gillespie. You think people just pulled this name out of a hat? Ludicrous! You say he doesn't tell the truth because of concern for his teacher. Give me a break! Did this man have a student of one?

How obvious it is to see the control this man has over you. The whole world is wrong, and he is right. If he says it, its got to be true. Even if the Word of God doesn't. What about you, watchman. Does changing his prediction make you nervous?

godchild

12-09-2006, 03:12 AM

Let Us Reason Ministries
Murray has in the past claimed to have a doctorate degree which has been proven false by those who looked into this claim. Researcher William Alnor states that Murray “Falsely claims to have a doctorate degree from a properly accredited university or seminary.” (Bill Alnor, “The Cultic Views of Arnold Murray and the Shepherd’s Chapel,” The Christian Sentinel, (1994) www.cultlink.com/murray.html (http://www.cultlink.com/murray.html)

B.J. Oropeza a researcher notes that Murray claimed to receive a doctorate from an individual named Roy Gillespie, after writing a dissertation on the book of Daniel. (Oropeza, p. 5.) When Oropeza in 1991 further investigated no evidence of such a dissertation was found where it would be in The National Union Catalog or through UMI Microfilms.

I had taken this portion off the article because I could not verify this. Just recently I have received this letter proving that what was already posted and looked into by others, it is indeed true. “I just wanted to mention that I contacted Shepherd 's Chapel in 1990 after seeing Dr. Arnold Murray on the Television. I contacted them and asked if Mr. Murray had received a doctorate in theology and if so where. I was told he had received it at Biola University in Southern Ca. I contacted Biola and found out this was not the case. And called Shepherd's chapel again to share with them my findings. I was called a Kenite and asked not to call again? I just thought I would let you know that they were making the claim that he had a doctorate in theology.” T. Pierce a missionary with Witness Inc.

If he doesn't have a doctorate or feel he doesn't need one, why does he put Dr. in front of his name? His newletters carry it.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 03:27 AM

I read all that garbage before, Godchild. Anyone can say the Chapel told them anything. That is not documentation. I doubt very seriously that every dissertation ever written made it into the National Union Catalog.
In addition, I will never believe anyone of the staff at SC would ever: 1. Tell anyone anything about Murray's pwersoanl info. 2. Call anyone names. Mostly just sweet little old ladies answer the phone there, the late Anna Murray was one of them.
The claim that this person was told that Murray had a Doctorate in Theology is the tip off. He has a doctorate in Religious Education. He has never claimed a doctorate in theology. There is a difference, and this person by this slip up has no credibility.

godchild

12-09-2006, 03:30 AM

This is a profile on B.J.Oropeza

B. J. Oropeza, Ph.D., is an assistant professor of biblical studies in the Division of Religion and Philosophy for the School of Theology. Among many publications are his books Ninety-Nine Answers to Questions About Angels, Demons, and Spiritual Warfare, A Time to Laugh: The Holy Laughter Phenomenon Examined, and Ninety-Nine Reasons Why No One Knows When Christ Will Return. Oropeza has been invited to speak on various radio and television talk shows about his areas of expertise including pop culture, eschatology, Jesus and Paul, and cults.
Education
Ph.D. - New Testament Theology, Durham University, Durham, England, 1998
M.A.Th. - Theology, Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, California, 1993
M.A. - Apologetics, Simon Greenleaf School of Law, Anaheim, California, 1991
B.A. - Biblical Studies, Northern California Bible College, Pleasanton, California, 1989
--------------------
What possible motive would this man have to lie about am and his doctorate/or lack of it?

godchild

12-09-2006, 03:49 AM

So he does claim to have a doctorate. That's easy enough to verify. Thanks.

dowen

12-09-2006, 03:56 AM

Hello GC,

I have done my best to hold my tongue for a long time here, but after reading your above posts I can't hold it in any longer.

My one question to you is;
What is in this for you?

You day in and day out attack AM/SC, drudging up all kinds of stuff from the polluted wells of the WWW, yet what is in all this for you?

Personal satisfaction?
A notch in your gun barrel?

I just don't get it.
Warning folks is one thing, but daily obscessing over minute details of others lives is quite another.

If you think AM is an evil cult leader, then cool. State your case and move on. God is certainly big enough to deal with AM.

All I ask of you is to stop with your daily dump at FN of whatever crud you can find on AM. It really is disgusting.

If AM/SC is not of God, it will fail. If it is of God, well, who wants to stand against Him?

Please, reconsider the course of folly you are currently on.

Yours in Christ,
DOwen.

(Message edited by dowen on December 08, 2006)

terluvire

12-09-2006, 04:05 AM

Dowen,

Thank you !

In Christ,
Ter

terluvire

12-09-2006, 04:16 AM

Angie, I missed your list of why we love Dowen! I didn't scroll up far enough.

Great list. I couldn't have said it better!

kimberlyfredrick

12-09-2006, 05:53 AM

To David and Godchild(and anyone I missed),

Thank you for your posts. God bless you both!!!

smyrna

12-09-2006, 06:17 AM

More and more mumbling and bumbling from Godchild:"Let Us Reason Ministries
Murray has in the past claimed to have a doctorate degree which has been proven false by those who looked into this claim. Researcher William Alnor states that Murray “Falsely claims to have a doctorate degree from a properly accredited university or seminary.” (Bill Alnor, “The Cultic Views of Arnold Murray and the Shepherd’s Chapel,” The Christian Sentinel, (1994) www.cultlink.com/murray.html (http://www.cultlink.com/murray.html) "

If you go to www.scripturetruth.homestead.com (http://www.scripturetruth.homestead.com), you will find just how 'credible' ol' Bill Alnor is.

If Murray does not say where he obtained his doctorate, then how can Alnor make the claim that Murray says he obtained his degree from a "properly accredited university or seminary."

How can this be true and then have detractors claim that he received a degree from Roy Gillespie (who is not a college or seminary)at the same time?

Oropeza isn't lying, he just does not have enough proof that Murray is lying. In other words, he can't prove that Murray does not have a doctorate. Just because he can't find the dissertation is not enough proof for any fair judge.

And like I said before, we have some clown claiming the Chapel folks said Murray had a doctorate in theology, which has never been claimed by Murray, so no one at the SC ever told that guy Murray had a Theology degree from Biola. That is pure fabrication, and that person tripped himself up by not realizing Murray claims the doctorate is in Religious education, not theology.

From Murray's Answer to critics: "Doctorate of Religious Education

I have never claimed to have received a doctorate from Roy Gillaspie. I do not know where some of these "researchers" came up with this. Roy Gillaspie was simply a beloved teacher of God's Word and I have never said or implied any such thing. It is true that I have a policy of not publicly stating where I earned my doctorate because then "critics" cannot judge me by association. I have always publicly stated that my credentials are my ability to teach God's Word. To the extent that our Heavenly Father blesses me with the ability to clearly teach His Word then what higher ordination could there be?"

Yes, Pastor Murray, what higher ordination could there be? Maybe Godchild's or Bill Alnors'? They seem to think they are.

franklin

12-09-2006, 07:08 AM

Dowen,

I can not answer for GC. But there is a lot that you don't seem to see from other perspectives.

As to myself, I had never heard of SC or Arnold Murray until about 8 months ago or so here at factnet. Started to read the thread. I could not believe my eyes! The level the SC "students" lower themselves to attacking viciously anyone who challenges their beliefs. All the name calling, slandering, ridiculing, wolfpacking...

Reminds me of the factnet atheists!

That right there sent a red flag up way high. Because I have encountered cults before and received the same reaction.

A true church or sect does not respond that way. It is like you say you say your piece and leave it at that. Like your responses on HH.

Then when I learned more and more about the SC beliefs it made me angry (not hateful angry) but angry at what they had done to the scripture. Especially the beautiful but simple story of Creation.

I am open minded and know the Bible is open for different ways of interpretation guided by the Holy Spirit.

But this? No way! No how! No one in the Christian Church, the body of Christ, believe Eve had sex with satan. Nobody!

Or that all humanity, all races, do not descend from Adam and Eve and further descended from Noah and his family.

Simple basic reading of Genesis says that Adam was born on the 6th day. God rested after creation.

Then you wonder why these people would do this to sacred scripture and believe it and proselytize this belief.

Here is where it really gets UGLY! And it explains why these so called "students" are so spiteful and vicious. It is obvious because the motive is RACIST!

Their inability to accept the true word of God that all humanity, all races, are from one source, God's creation of Adam and Eve has to have some ugly perverted motive.

And their claim that there are descendants of Eve and SATAN pretending to be Jews today!!!! Outrageous!!!!

You might not think this is a big deal. But one thing is definite. We do not need anymore racism and antisemitism in this world today.

Especially coming from these people who claim to be Christians. And especially when we have friends and family members dying in Iraq, a cesspool of Jew haters.

You are entitled to believe these SC "students" are nice people. I recognize their deceptive skills are great. But you have never questioned their beliefs either. Try it. I dare you too. You'll see for yourself.

There is NO reason at all for their responses to be so spiteful and outrageously vicious to anyone who question their beliefs. Or to anyone who wants to expose the true motives for their perverting scripture.

To me and others there can only be one reason for the way they behave and react here on factnet. They are programmed heavily by cult mind control. Seriously.

I came to factnet years ago concerning another cult. So many similarities. Twisting, perverting scripture. Violent, vicious reaction to anyone who criticizes or questions their beliefs. There are cults and then there are just different sects. The above is a sure sign this is a cult.

And what did I and GC and many others come to factnet for? To learn about, help identify and expose mind control cults and their false doctrines. The stated purpose of factnet.

franklin

12-09-2006, 07:08 AM

(continued)

These "students" are trying to suck real true Christians into their heresy. That I do not want to allow. If these "students" are just ignored, with no one here to reveal their heresy, then they will be successful into deceiving people that they are just another Christian Church like Methodists or Baptists.

When the truth is they are no more Christian than Mormons or JW's are.

Now if they would just be honest and not try to pretend that they are Christian or the "true" Christian church then I would say live and let live. Believe what you want. It's a free country.

But the great commission to us from Christ is not just spread the gospel and stop there. I believe it also includes showing what is NOT the true gospel of Christ though it might appear or pretend to be.

Being a factnet poster is not somebody who comes here to win a popularity contest. But there has to be some sort of civility to it. I've read many of these posts here. These SC "students" cross the line into uncivility over and over again. I think GC does the best she can to be civil.

I am blunt and to the point. Their motives for perverting Genesis and the rest of the Bible is pure and simple. Racism! And ethnic slurs against the Jews. That I do not tolerate.

Dowen, here's a question for you. Why do you keep responding on the HH thread? Why don't you say your piece and move on?

The obvious reason is that what you posted will be buried for no one to read and the detractors of HH will be free to criticize it unopposed.

That is what I believe GC is doing here. To help show factnet readers that SC is NOT Christianity. No more than the Mormons are. Let the readers decide for themselves with all the facts. Same reason you came to factnet. Same as I did. To get the facts out there.

But all the name calling and spitefulness is coming from the SCer's. Dowen, you are my brother in Christ and I am telling you so that you might know for yourself. These SC people are not who they seem to be to you.They are insincere to you. Manipulative. Users.

The people who sucked a family member of mine into their sadistic, heretical, appear to be Christian (but are not Christian but are a cult) but were not who they seemed to be either.

Since you seem to want to defend your insincere friends let me ask you some simple questions.

What does the following scripture passage mean to you?

Genesis 4:1 (King James Version)

Genesis 4

1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD."

Does it say ADAM is Cain's father?

Or does it say that satan is Cain's father?

If it says to you that Adam is Cain's father then ask yourself why does arnie say it does not?

What is his motives for doing so?

And why these "students" believe a man instead of God's word?

What are their motives for doing so?

And why are they so vicious in their attacks on anyone who questions their wierd, bizarre interpretations?

This is not a Baptist versus Methodist debate over minor scriptural differences.

This is an exposition of a non Christian heresy that is trying to deceive people that they are Christian too.

A serious threat to the body of Christ.

A dangerous mind control cult that needs to be exposed.

That is the purpose of factnet.

Your effort as peacemaker is well noted. I just ask that you consider what I have written and asked you.

God bless you brother. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 07:10 AM

Well said Smyrna. There will be a day when the finger pointers will have to answer God. If these people would spend more time in the word and less time pointing fingers at others this world would be a better place. satan is the accuser, he has just a little time though.
Alice

franklin

12-09-2006, 07:17 AM

I am answering to God right now Alice. I am defending the true word of God, right here and right now!

God is not a racist and neither should you be!

My relationship with God is NOT endangered. But yours is!

terluvire

12-09-2006, 07:18 AM

Franklin, you have not one shred of proof any of us are antisemtic or racist.

Again, I am Jewish! Secondly, you do not know what race all of us are.

You are the one who comes here and falsely accuses us.

If you were so sure your understanding of the Scriptures was true, you would stand on God's word and not resort to name calling, lies and slander.

We asked you many times to answer our questions and you do not. You make personal attacks instead, then leave.

If you want to prove us wrong, do so with Scripture. If you can't....just go your way.

terluvire

12-09-2006, 07:27 AM

Hi Alice,
Franklin said:
My relationship with God is NOT endangered. But yours is!

Hmmmmm, Alice, I guess Franklin thinks he's your judge. Franklin, only God can judge a person's heart, you cannot. So are you God now? Do you really know Alice's relationship with the Lord is in jeopardy? Wow, you think too highly of yourself. Pride is a dangerous thing, it is a tool of satan's.

I will be praying for you Franklin.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 07:31 AM

Frankie is up to his usual ranting and raving again. But he has a selective memory, as well as fuzzy logic.

Do we really have to drag out his posts where he was anything less than polite to us? His definition of vicious attacks is when someone is harsh with him, but not the other way around.

I wonder what he would have accused Jesus of doing when He drove the moneychangers out of the Temple? Trespasser? Violent anti-establishment troublemaker?

Surely Frankie would have been one of the Pharisees, or at least one of their supporters.

Would he have referred to Jesus calling the Pharisees a "generation of vipers" (Matt. 3:7), as a "vicious attack"? Of course!

But let's not forget that Frankie is here to "enlighten us." The only enlightening he has done is to illuminate the fact that he is a Gospel goofball who is intolerant of anyone who disagrees with him. That's Frankie's definition of a cult member. Someone who disagrees with him.

How's that for a vicious attack Frankie?

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 07:41 AM

Hmmmmm, Alice, I guess Franklin thinks he's your judge. Franklin, only God can judge a person's heart, you cannot. So are you God now? Do you really know Alice's relationship with the Lord is in jeopardy? Wow, you think too highly of yourself. Pride is a dangerous thing, it is a tool of satan's.

I will be praying for you Franklin.

Thanks Ter, but God knows everyone's hearts. He is my Lord and my judge. He is awesome!!
Alice

franklin

12-09-2006, 07:41 AM

"There will be a day when the finger pointers will have to answer God."

Here's where YOU are being MY judge!

You are the vicious ones here.

I'm just pointing out that YOU are racists. Own up to it and be quiet.

Are you pretending to be Jewish or are you pretending to be Christian? Which is it?

Duh?!? You are white.

Duh?!? If you are ethnically Jewish, you are white. Jews are white!

Disagree with ME all you want. Doesn't hurt my feelings.

But DO NOT pervert the word of God.

Here is scripture for you:

Genesis 4:1 (King James Version)

Genesis 4

1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD."

Twisting and perverting that simple true scriptural passage is HERESY!

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 07:44 AM

Actually Franklin you don't know what color I am.
Alice

terluvire

12-09-2006, 07:45 AM

Well then Franklin, I will post this again and maybe NOW you will answer my question:

_________________________________________________
Fraklin
Quote
Post #4506: (from the cultblunders thread)
Genesis 3

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

That does NOT show that Eve is pregnant there. Out of context. God is talking to Eve about FUTURE conceptions, pregnancies and deliveries. Even a child can understand that!
End Quote

First off, I'm not going to get into whether Eve was pregnant already or not. Watchman already covered it and that is not the purpose for me quoting you Franklin.

If you can see that the woman's seed is referring to offspring, then what do you think it means by the serpent's seed? For this verse, God is speaking to the serpent and Eve:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Please explain what is God talking about concerning the serpent's seed.

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 07:47 AM

Why are you so angry Franklin. What makes you want to spew hatred like this. I will be praying for you. It is sad to see such hatred.
Alice

terluvire

12-09-2006, 07:50 AM

ahhh Franklin, you are funny!

No I'm not pretending to be Jewish. Being Jewish doesn't mean only a religion, it's a tribe of people from the tribe of Judah.

I am a descendant from the Tribe of Judah...ie Jewish. Just because I'm of Jewish ethnicity doesn't negate the fact that I'm Christian.

It doesn't matter if you believe me or not. God's knows I am not lying and that's all that matter.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 07:58 AM

Hi Alice,

It's called intolerance. This guy Franklin is in his own world. He promotes Franklinism. He has a superiority complex of the nth degree. He travels cyberspace on the good ship Ego.

You need to check out his shenanigans on that goofy site Cultbusters.com.au

He plays Star Trek astronaut and also "Foxy Loxy" in some animal story fantasy. Even drug addicts can't be that far out of it.

I've been on the web for more than ten years, and I've never seen anything quite like the craziness at Cultbusters.

Aside from that, Franklin is not a very honest person to say the least. We caught him in boldfaced lies, and he even denied that, which amounted to him lying about lying! He called the SC a cult on his Star Trek board over at Cultbusters, then came here one the same day, and said he wasn't sure the Shepherd's Chapel was a cult!

franklin

12-09-2006, 07:59 AM

Oh Alice!!!! You love to twist, pervert and spin my words.

No hatred or anger here at all.

But YOU! You are the angry one. And twisting scripture to pretend it reads that blacks and orientals are not descended from Adam and Eve is a racist non Christian white supremacist heresy! It is motivated by racist hatred. Abandon this heresy if you love God. Abandon it if you love God's true word and love your fellow humans.

terl..... Oh so because you are of celtic origins, which are NOT Jews, you pretend you are Jewish! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

terluvire

12-09-2006, 08:01 AM

I'm of Celtic orgins on my dad's side. But you know, I do have a mother..lol She is of Judah which in turn would also make me of Judah.

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 08:05 AM

Sorry Franklin, I listen to God only. I will still be praying for you. He takes good care of me so it doesn't matter what someone who doesn't even know me might say.
Alice

smyrna

12-09-2006, 08:10 AM

Good post Alice. Franklin should be a non-issue with all of us. He just cannot be taken seriously. He's an out of control ego maniac, with delusions of grandeur.

terluvire

12-09-2006, 08:13 AM

Great post Alice!

I agree Smyrna. No matter what we say to Franklin, he will not believe us. That is unless we agree with him. Remember, he told Angie he has the true interpretation. This was in the cultblunders thread.

franklin

12-09-2006, 08:17 AM

Oh smearnoff! You are such a riot. You look in a mirror, see your own ugliness and then accuse me of what is wrong with you. You are true to your name. SMEARnoff!

Alice, your prayer for me has the same effect as a Buddhist praying for me. It is YOU that needs the prayer! A prayer for deliverance.

terl. If you have true Jewish heritage then recognize arnie's smearing of some of the modern day Jews as spawns of satan as an attack on YOU!

You all have eyes and yet you can not see!

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 08:17 AM

Definition of a cult? someone who is intolerant of other's beliefs. Sad.
Alice

terluvire

12-09-2006, 08:20 AM

Hey Franklin, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question concerning Gen.3:15

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 08:22 AM

Buenos Dias Franklinhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

franklin

12-09-2006, 08:24 AM

Your diluting and twisting of the definition of a cult is ludicrous.

SC claiming to be the TRUE Christian church and to have the only true interpretation of God's word as perverted as you have made it is intolerant of the whole body of Christ.

No Christian is tolerant of the perversion of God's word like you guys do. Neither should we be.

Keep up your outrageous attacks. You are just revealing yourselves for what you are.

First thing cultmembers do is to accuse those who reveal them as cultmembers of belonging to a cult.

Now that is laughable! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

terluvire

12-09-2006, 08:27 AM

Franklin
Quote:
terl. If you have true Jewish heritage then recognize arnie's smearing of some of the modern day Jews as spawns of satan as an attack on YOU!

Franklin, while you are working on answering my above question regarding Gen.3:15, also read the parable of the figtree and Jeremiah 24. when God is telling Jeremiah about the good figs and bad figs. What does it all mean?

Thanks

Ter

yahslittleone

12-09-2006, 08:47 AM

Nowhere does the Holy Bible say "don't teach my people to fly". am uses Ezekiel as his evidence, when we know he was telling the people not to listen to or use psychics or diviners, sorcerer's.

Eze 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the Lord God. Behold I am against your pillows wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them FLY.And will let the souls go, even the souls that you hunt to make them FLY." Back up to V. 19 the subject is false shepherds that lie.
Alice

franklin

12-09-2006, 12:33 PM

When you can't give a straight answer to what Genesis 4:1 says and have to rely on parables and symbolism to twist and pervert the true word of God then you are doing nothing but uttering satan's lies. SC is an infection, a deciver in the body of Christ. It is not Christianity.

arni is the prophet of baal!

Genesis 4:1 (King James Version)

Genesis 4

1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD."

Does it say ADAM is Cain's father?

Or does it say that satan is Cain's father?

If it says to you that Adam is Cain's father then ask yourself why does arnie say it does not?

What is his motives for doing so?

And why these "students" believe a man instead of God's word?

What are their motives for doing so?

And why are they so vicious in their attacks on anyone who questions their wierd, bizarre interpretations?

Answer those questions or do not reply back to me.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 03:09 PM

Frankie is so inept, he can't even follow subject/object. Why does Eve say she has gotten a "man" from the Lord? A child is not a man. And she doesn't say that this 'man' came from Adam, but "the Lord."
This is a primitive woman. She does not know the science behind childbirth. She only sees God as he allowed her- as the creator of all things. She has been seduced by Satan. How many people say they have been conned when they still are not aware they have been conned? She did not know!
She has been conned, led to believe something that is not true, and this is evident by evidence which comes later on in the Genesis text as well as many other books of the OT as well as NT.
Frankie calls the teaching of serpent's seed "bizarre." But what is bizarre is that adults still cling to some childish mythology involving the clear abuse of a Hebrew figure of speech, which fundamentalists get a talking snake out of, and they somehow never get to the end of the statement by God which says this serpent will eat dust. No snake on earth eats dust. Mice, even whole eggs, but no dust.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 03:10 PM

Cont'd

I have a question that Frankie definitely will not be able to answer.

In Luke, it states that "all the world" would be taxed by the Romans under Augustus. (Luke 2:1)

However, there is absolutely no dispute as to the extent of the Roman empire during the time of Augustus. And it definitely did not include "all the world."

This is relative to his contention that something was stated clearly in the Bible. He says Genesis clearly states Adam is Cain's father. Well, it also says that "all the world" was taxed in Luke.

But anyone who knows history knows that the Roman empire did not consist of the whole world.Yet there is the statement in Luke, clear as day, right?

I suppose that Frankie will counter that it (Roman empire) was all the KNOWN world) but this is also not the case. The Romans where aware of unconquered lands and peoples. And this is the Word of God. Is it lying?

So what will be Frankie's answer to this puzzle?

See, Frankie can't reason past the depth of a thimble. He fails to acknowledge circumstantial evidence. The fallen angels of Genesis 6 show that angels can have sex with women. Satan was a fallen angel.
The book of Enoch, far from some myth that critics can easily dispose of, is actually part of the Ethiopian canon. Enoch shows us the correct interpretation of Gnesis 6, and it is without any doubt that this interpretation shows the mating of angels with women, and the result being giants. One of the giants, Og, is described as having a huge bed (Duet. 3:11)and a spear head weighing fifteen pounds! (I Samuel 17:7)So we have no doubt this was a very large being.
Further Biblical confirmation that these fallen angels mated with women is found in Numbers 13:33. The term sons of Anak (used for the giants) is telling. Anak is from a Sumerian/Babylonian aka Chaldee word, 'Annunaki' which means "those who from heaven to earth came."

Frankie has to ignore all this evidence, and much, much more, for him to keep clinging to his fairy tale of a talking snake and a magic fruit tree.

He has to exercise his anti-Catholic sentiments so he can also ignore Hildegard's (of Bingen) allusion to a literal rape of Eve, which she wrote about in the Middle Ages.

Yes, Frankie has to deny allegorical, linguistic, and scientific, and other circumstantial elements, and must pose as a Biblical maximalist in order to cling to his childhood fairy tales.

Talking snakes, a man that can build a boat while he is on a world safari chasing penguins and polar bears, an ancient couple that can give birth to blacks, asians, red and brown indians, and white people, world domination by the Romans, flaming flying horses sailing Enoch through the sky, that's Frankie's world.

According to Frankie, the prophecy that "knowledge will increase in the end times" by the angel in Daniel 12:4 means absolutely nothing.

Yes, according to Frankie, we have learned nothing about the Bible since Medieval times.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 03:32 PM

Frankie is way off the deep end, as we know. He says that "SC claiming to be the TRUE Christian church and to have the only true interpretation of God's word as perverted as you have made it is intolerant of the whole body of Christ."

Nowhere will you find any evidence that proves Frankie's charges. Pastor Murray always implores his students to "check him out" and never to trust any man over God, him, or nay other man. Trust God. That's a far cry from what Frankie is claiming.

So many of us Chapel students study Scripture outside of the Chapel telecast. Once again, Frankie creates his own scenario, and then treats it like it is irrefutable truth.
But what else can we expect from a guy who plays astronaut and animal roles on some fantasy website?

I study the Doctors of the Church. Origen,Ireneaus, Augustine, Tertullian, etc. Frankie would have to do a quick 'net search of these names just to find out who they are!
I think the Desert Fathers were incredibly wise followers of Christ that we can learn much from. Frankie couldn't name one Desert Father, unless, once again, he scrambles over to Google and tries to get a quickie education.
But see this knowledge is not going to appease whacky old Franklin. He'll just keep on coming up with the same tired arguments. He doesn't have anything else. He claims the SC holds that it is the only "true" Church. That is a lie, nothing more. A lie.
Who would know better, other than a fifteen year student of the SC? Not some playtime astronuat who freely admits that he only heard of the SC eight months ago!
Eight months, and in those eight months do you think he would have even watched even one hour of the Chapel program? No! His education comes second hand. From here at FN, and what is obviously the poorest source-all the anti-chapel critics who engage in misrepresentation, rumor mongering, and other very questionable tactics.
He calls that methodology research? He'd get booted out of every house of higher learning there is, with such shoddy attempts at what he calls research.
Frankie has proved to us over and over he is clearly not a Bible scholar. He knows absolutely nothing more than what he learned in Sunday school when he was six years old.
Anything that upsets his little pretend world is heresy, and Satan's lies. What a clown.

rachelengland

12-09-2006, 04:17 PM

As usual smyrna is up to his pathetic self praising ways. Talk about a clown, he would rather spread the word of smyrna and brag about a host of other MEN he takes ideas from than spread the gosple correctly.

If he'd spend more time focusing on the correct interpetations of the scripture instead of posting pictures of old women and mocking people maybe people might take him a bit more seriously.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 04:36 PM

Once again, Rachel adds nothing substantive to any discussions on Factnet. The only posts we see from her is empty criticisms. She has nothing because she knows nothing.
Her ignorance shines through her heckling loud and clear. She claims the Doctors of the Church are just men, not inspired by their love of Christ and God's Word, she gives them no credit for being just what she is looking for- men who spread the Gospel "correctly', (whatever that means to her we do not know).
This is how ridiculous she is. She has absolutley no idea of the influence that individuals like Augustine, Origen, Tertullian, etc. have had on Christianity. Jesus commissioned the Apostles to go forth and spread the Gospel, as Rachel describes it. But when we mention those who do, now they are just MEN that we shouldn't "brag about."
There is no winning with Rachel. She just sits back and criticizes anything coming from people she doesn't like, without any regard for actually determining the truth of things.
Now I have shown that she has put her foot squarely in her mouth. In one short post, she has shown us how ignorant and contradictory her convoluted attempts at reasoning are.

To Rachel, "correct attempts at interpreting Scripture" are those that she agrees with, and nothing more. But she is incapable of determining what is correct or what is not, because for her to do so, she would have to depend on mere men. She doesn't know if she is coming or going, but she wants to play Bible scholar.

rachelengland

12-09-2006, 04:50 PM

Oh Smyrna, keep trying to knock me down-your "I'm better than you", macho attitude may impress others but it doesn't me and it bothers you-that I have figured out your self-esteem is so low, you try to take people down, with your mocking satire and foolish babble.

As I have told others, I feel you are so deeply dedicated to your so called "inspired" MEN of god" that you have forgotten what it is like to step away and study God's word on your own and listen to the Holy spirit. I pity you- really it's heartbreaking.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 05:03 PM

Rachel said: "As I have told others, I feel you are so deeply dedicated to your so called "inspired" MEN of god" that you have forgotten what it is like to step away and study God's word on your own and listen to the Holy spirit."

I haven't forgotten anything. And what you "feel" is not anywhere near reality, which is not surprising.

Why Rachel cannot give any credit to those in the past who followed Christ, who followed the Apostles he chose, and left a legacy of such great contributions to Christianity, because somehow she "feels" it is wrong, is just plain nonsense.

These detractors have very strange perceptions. Now I am "knocking her down", when I show how ridiculous her criticisms of me are. I am being "macho", and mean, just because I don't agree with her foolish perceptions and her intolerant, clouded views.

angie0401

12-09-2006, 05:38 PM

As I have told others, I feel you are so deeply dedicated to your so called "inspired" MEN of god" that you have forgotten what it is like to step away and study God's word on your own and listen to the Holy spirit. I pity you- really it's heartbreaking.

So are we to assume that you study the Greek & Hebrew texts of the Bible, Rachel? For if you don't, YOU are only studying a host of other MEN you take ideas from. The KJV translators were absolutely adamant in ensuring people knew they were not inspired by God.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 05:41 PM

Makes sense to me, Angie, but probably will fall on Rachel's deaf ears. Doubtless she will just accuse you of being mean to her just because you point out the errors of her way of thinking.

terluvire

12-09-2006, 05:48 PM

Hey Angie, good post.
Quote:
So are we to assume that you study the Greek & Hebrew texts of the Bible, Rachel? For if you don't, YOU are only studying a host of other MEN you take ideas from. The KJV translators were absolutely adamant in ensuring people knew they were not inspired by God.

I think about 47 men were known to have taken part in the work of translation for the KJV.

watchman_2

12-09-2006, 07:50 PM

godchild,

You wrote,

watchman, You are the one who brought the information here just recently, and suggesting though am was wrong, you now have figured out the right date. God hates lies! Didn't you also say that's what caused you to get banned from 'the fig tree'? My goodness, how the story changes when confronted with the truth.

Then, God must hate you -- for you are the queen of liars!

As all SCers have pointed out to you cultblunderers, PM encourages everyone to check out their teachers/preachers. So, I did.

However, you twist the truth into a lie [as usual]. No where, did I say that PM made the prediction that the detractors all publish [no one has brought forth proof]. I purely indicated that such allegations probably originated from PM's teaching of the Book of Daniel.

You have been harping for months that PM does not provide the public information regarding his religious studies. If PM studied at the same institute as your hero, Jack Van Impe, would you have a different opinion of PM? Answer: NO!

At least you could be honest for a change and admit that you hate PM and SCers for the teachings. Of course, there is the other fact that SCers expose your lack of knowledge of the scriptures and your lying ways.

The others addressed your association with those other discredited sites. The question remains, since all of this has been raised and refuted long ago, why do you insist on bringing it up again?

You are malicious in thought and action.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 08:25 PM

Watchman, Godchild likes Van Impe? Van Impe used to teach that the Pope will be the anti-christ! Talk about failed predictions!

Van Impe now sounds like an apologist for the Catholic Church! That is a complete turn around from his previous position.

I watched Van Impe for a succession of programs a while back, and on every, and I do mean every program, he mentioned something the Pope said and praised whatever the Pope had to say.

I was absolutely amazed, since I remember explicitly that he said that John Paul II or a future Pope, would be the anti-Christ, for the seat of anti-Christ is the Catholic Church!

And true to form, Rexella (Mrs. Van Impe) maintains her role as Jack's personal cheerleader, but after all, they are married. But I'd really like to know what changed Jack's mind about the RCC.

I find it amusing that Godchild rants and raves about Pastor Murray, and aligns herself with a guy like Van Impe.

He always brags about knowing 5000 verses by heart, yet it is clear he is having trouble tying them into anything steadfast and cohesive. You cannot be steadfast and cohesive by flipping something like the anti-Christ/Pope issue.

dodge

12-09-2006, 08:37 PM

Even though I'm no Christian, it's obvious to me that the Serpent Seed Doctrine does not match the Biblical account. You have to ADD to scripture, and TWIST other verses to even make this doctrine "fit." So, it is a FALSE DOCTRINE! Since this doctrine is tied with the KKK, Neo-Nazis and other White Supremicist groups, it is a racist doctrine. "Christian Identity" groups advance the claim that Jews and other nonwhite races are descended from the intermarriage of Eve with the Serpent, Satan himself. Hence, the white race is the only pure race. The epitome of anti-Semitism is found in the Identity Movement with the Serpent Seed Doctrine, the "Two Seedline" teaching. They believe that Eve was seduced by Satan, who impregnated her with Cain. Cain is then said to be the progenitor of the Jewish people, making the Jews the literal descendants of Satan. This is an integral and essential teaching in the Aryan Nation movement. There is no scriptual support for Eve having sex with the Devil. If you pay attention to the writings of Moses, you will find that when he refers to sex he uses the terms "went into her" or some form of "lay with" or "knew her." If Eve had sex with the serpent, why didn't God reveal that to Moses and have him write it down in the manner he used everywhere else? He does not use the term here, He uses "beguiled me."

In Genesis 4:1: "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain." Adam is not the devil, this verswe is so simple a child could understand it. The authors of the Serpent Seed Doctrine have to literally tear this verse to shreds to make this verse read that Eve had sex with Satan.

godchild

12-09-2006, 08:41 PM

Why do you associate me with Jack Van Impe. I don't listen to him or read anything he writes. Never have.

Why do YOU continue to spread the lies that am/sc teaches? I have never claimed to be a Pastor or a biblical scholar. I believe I get under all of your skin so much because you cannot deal with the truth, and must have a person to blame. I am only a messenger for Christ! I've never seen franklin or rachel claim to be a pastor. Your rules are one way for you, and another for others. We could put Dr. in front of our names, and you would have no evidence that we are not doctors of religious education, doctors of theology, or doctors of anything having to do with teaching the Word.

The other thread I just posted under shows exactly how brainwashed scer's are; how you lie and twist the very teaching you claim to follow, embracing it and the man who teaches it one moment then denying you do the next. Are you a man or a mouse? When a man claims to be an end time messenger, a man who claims he was chosen in another 'earth life', he had better be careful of his words; words that he spreads as truth. If he doesn't expect to be held accountable for them, his credibility means nothing. When and unless he retracts his false claims, admitting he IS only a man (which we all are, the only good in us being the Holy Spirit) with faults, AND REPENTS, he is not credible, but someone who he and his followers assume he is superior to others. Even if he denies this, you all don't. That is a common reason for believing his works are those of a cult leader. It is called 'brainwashing' in our terms. In biblical terms, it is called 'following satan, the father of lies', making you his children.

godchild

12-09-2006, 08:45 PM

Thanks for your input, Dodge. God loves you!

For the scer's who claimed that am said he doesn't tell who he studied under because he doesn't want him/them to get nasty emails/letters from those that hate him. He said he doesn't because he doesn't want them to be 'embarassed'. Figure that one out!

smyrna

12-09-2006, 08:46 PM

Dodge, you dodge the fact that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew. And since it is highly doubtful you understand Hebrew, or can explain what Hebrew idioms are, you are not qualified to make any comments about what Genesis states.

And since you claim not to be a Christian, then you don't even believe the common myth about a talking snake or a magic apple tree. The Bible doesn't say any such thing about a talking snake or magic apple either.

I can only wonder why you are even on here, unless just to be an agitator. Well, we have plenty of those already, and they all are better at it than you. You are a mildly troublesome gnat compared to our usual group of malcontents.

I suggest you take your caper-sized brain over to the atheist board, and play with them for a while.

godchild

12-09-2006, 08:48 PM

See how quickly smyrna accepts watchman's lies. Simply because he is a fellow scer. Another cult tendency. The whole world is wrong, but them.

godchild

12-09-2006, 08:52 PM

smyrna is disobeying the Lord's admonition again. Look at the way he treats dodge. Jesus said He did not come to call the righteous, but the unrighteous, to repentance. We are supposed to follow His lead. God opens a door, and scer's slam it shut. What a shame.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 08:55 PM

So Godchild, is this your way of denying you ever found Jack Van Impe appealing as a religious teacher?

I wonder if you even can remember, after posting more than four thousand entries at Factnet, that you never endorsed anything Van Impe has claimed, or taught. So you better be careful, because Watchman may just have something you yourself didn't even remember you wrote, which anyone may be able to see right here at Factnet.

You know, kind of like your claim that the SC did not have their own Church building.

dodge

12-09-2006, 08:56 PM

Ah, an example of true Christian love! Whatever happened to "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven?" "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others?" (Matthew 5:38-48)

Judge not, lest you be judged. "Caper-sized brain" indeed! "Mildly troublesome gnat!" I don't hear the doctrines of Jesus anywhere in your words, which reveal you and watchman2 walking the path of pride and arrogance. There isn't the slightest indication of compassion or unconditioned love in any of your posts, only hostility directed at anyone who dares to comment on your warped beliefs. What good deeds are you doing in the world that you might call yourself a Christian? You and Watchman2 sound like over-competitive teenagers or 20-somethings filled with too much testosterone. I would suggest you attempt to be more gentle and loving in your communication with others and act like the Christians that you pretend to be.

(Message edited by Dodge on December 09, 2006)

smyrna

12-09-2006, 09:14 PM

Dodge, you are not my enemy, so your entire post is nullified. The Bible says that "the fool hath said in his heart, there is no God." Psalm 14.

So if you fall into that category, I do have compassion for you. You must not be a very happy guy, going through life with so much doubt and unbelief. You cannot believe in God if you do not believe in Christ, that is our position as Christians.

You come on here poking fun at Christians, and then when we show we aren't just going to take it, you want kindness and compassion.

That silly little trap of yours, which we won't fall for, will cause the anti-chapel detractors to rejoice with glee, but to us, you are just a silly little boy.

dodge

12-09-2006, 09:32 PM

It just seems to me, as an outsider, a non-believer (but one who was born and raised a Christian), that you Shepherds Chapel people do not demonstrate the love of Jesus in your words towards others...not only me.

Are you really letting your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works? Do I have to tell you that your words are your witness? You sound like a hypocrite, one who needs to bring your walk up to your talk. Think about how you come across to non-Christians!

"But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy." (James 3:17) Unfortunately, your kind of Christian acts as if to be a bold witness you must be rude, harsh and obnoxious. Why antagonize non-believers? As Paul wrote: "Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you; so that you may behave properly toward outsiders."

When I was a Christian, I knew that God commanded me to speak graciously. (Colossians 4:6) Don't you realize, as Christians, that your words need to be filled with charm, kindness, warmth, and gentleness? "A gentle answer turns away wrath." "The wise in heart will be called discerning, and sweetness of speech increases persuasiveness." "Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones."

Seek to be understanding before you seek to be understood. A foolish witness is all mouth and no ears. Remember, a non-believer such as myself is a unique creation of God...one for whom Christ died.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 09:52 PM

Give me a break, Dodge. You come on here with your clownish jokes about religion, and then you want us to just ignore that and play nice. You know what you are doing. And we won't fall for it.

Jesus was pretty rough with the Pharisees, and your ignorance of that apprently is the reason you think you can fool us.

So stop the cheap con job you're trying to pull off. If you want to be serious, it is you who has to show us, not the other way around.

dodge

12-09-2006, 10:26 PM

Jesus responded to the Pharisees when they asked Him about the greatest commandment in the Law. They wanted to test Jesus. Jesus said to them: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

Who is this "neighbor" that Jesus commanded us all to love as ourselves? Me, for one. The commandment is to simply respect me and to take ragard for my needs and desires as highly as you regard your own. Perhaps an easy way for you do do this is to recognize me as worthy of God's love as you and your fellow Shepherds Chapel brothers and sisters.

Your neighbor, who you should love as you love yourself, includes those who share space here in this forum. If, as you say, I am not your enemy, then I am your neighbor, who you should respect and love as you do yourself. Of course, one of the most radical, and most ignored, teachings of Jesus is His command to love your enemies.

"Bless those who perscute you; bless and do not curse." (Romans 12:14)

"Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing." (1 Peter 3:9)

I would admonish you to pray for those who you feel a need to argue with, instead of responding insult for insult. Pray that God will help you love him or her.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13:4-8)

Go now, and be the Christian that you should be.

smyrna

12-09-2006, 10:37 PM

So, according to your expert Biblical opinion Dodge, the Jesus Himself is guilty of violating God's commandments.

He called the Pharisees, a "generation of vipers." He fashioned a whip and chased the money changers out of the Temple. Were not the Pharisees His neighbors?

"Think not that I have come to send peace on earth:I came not to send peace, but a sword." Jesus Christ, Matthew 10:34.

The truth is, we can be a bit rough on our neighbors, especially those who want to make fun of us, and try to trip us up, as the Pharisees tried to trip up Jesus.

You try and trip me up, Dodge, and I'll be a bit rough on you.

I guess I can't now tell you and go and be the Christian you should be, since you are an unbeliever. You think you are free, but you are your own captive, your own victim.

Only the truth will set you free, Dodge. Seek it.

godchild

12-10-2006, 12:18 AM

In tape # 406, Grace Baptism, Murray attempts to explain the meaning of Ephesians 2:12-14; verses that in reality speak of the oneness of those in Christ whether they are Jews or Gentiles. He says:

But He is our peace who have made both one and have broken down the wall of partition between us" -- Now let me just say something. What Paul would have you do here to clearly understand this is to understand the prophet Ezekiel -- Ezekiel made it very clear what this partition was (verse 14) but the partition was made in its regular place for the separation of all people, kindred's, etc., but the Spirit , the one Spirit that flowed from the throne fed all- remember - let me just prompt your memory - remember Ezekiel was taken, he was shown the Spirit, lets call it the Spirit of God . . . and Ezekiel could go in certain places in the Spirit but he came to the river. A river where the river was so swift that he could not cross it -- What do you think that was he couldn't cross? Because there was a people on the other side of that river that he could never associate with , bless your heart, there was food on both sides of that river. Oh the entire plan of God everything in its place in its proper place. . . .That is why that they all became one only in as much as they feed from that Spirit. But that is the extent of it.

smyrna

12-10-2006, 12:30 AM

Makes sense to me! kind of fits in with Jesus' own words in Matthew 10:34-39

"For I have come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.And a man's foes shall be they of his own household...."

Grab your Bible and read on, maybe you'll learn something.

dodge

12-10-2006, 02:57 AM

smyrna, the sword that Jesus used is a metaphor for division that his message would bring between those who accept it and those who reject it. He was not talking of war, or using that metaphorical sword as a weapon. Nowhere in that chapter does Jesus instruct his disciples to harm anyone. On the contrary, He instructs them to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons. He does not command them to do violence on those who reject the message.

It is very clear that Jesus' mission and message was peace, and was to be spread peacefully. Christians are not allowed to use force to spread the message of the Gospel. Jesus told his people that if they are unwelcome, they should move on to those who are willing to listen.

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." (Matthew 26)

Jesus is not a prophet of the sword. The sword of violoence, force and war has no place in His message. When Jesus said he came to "bring a sword," it meant a sword of division that God's word brings.

(Message edited by dodge on December 09, 2006)

(Message edited by dodge on December 09, 2006)

smyrna

12-10-2006, 04:46 AM

Sorry Dodge, that sermon of yours does not explain Matthew 1:34-39.

dodge

12-10-2006, 05:24 AM

Matthew 1:34-39 does not exist. Doesn't Matthew 1 only have 25 verses?

(Message edited by dodge on December 09, 2006)

preachers_daughter

12-10-2006, 05:32 AM

"Matthew 1:34-39 does not exist. Doesn't Matthew 1 only have 25 verses?"

Looks like dodge got you there!!!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

terluvire

12-10-2006, 05:37 AM

I think Smyrna had a typo Instead of typing a 10, he typed only the "1"

Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

terluvire

12-10-2006, 06:00 AM

Hi Smyrna,

There is also this verse:

Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
(KJV)

(Message edited by terluvire on December 10, 2006)

franklin

12-10-2006, 06:39 AM

"Matthew 1:34-39 does not exist. Doesn't Matthew 1 only have 25 verses?"

Serpent Seeders are notorious for adding to the bible.

smyrna

12-10-2006, 10:36 AM

Frankie, it's called a typo. It's Matt. 10:34-39

Of course, the fact that Terluvire already mentioned that it was a typo did not dissuade you from making your stupid, snide comment. Because that's all you have. You don't know enough about the Bible to add anything to any discussions here.

We were not talking about serpent seed, and I was adding nothing to the Bible.

So get aboard your spaceship, and fly back to Foxy Loxy land, whack job.

franklin

12-10-2006, 03:49 PM

Sticks and stones may break my bones but your cruel insults will never hurt me.

Your continual name calling and perverted twisting of sacred scriptures reveal what you and SC are.

You clearly show how that arnie is a liar and that SC is a cult. You've buried yourself smearnoff.

You will never be able to convert any poor sucker into your cult.

Adam and Eve had sex with Satan? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

SC has been thrown into the scrap heap of other cults of the past.

terluvire

12-10-2006, 04:16 PM

Hi Smyrna,

All of them should have realized it was a typo right away, for right before your typo, you had posted in your post #1051:

Makes sense to me! kind of fits in with Jesus' own words in Matthew 10:34-39

"For I have come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.And a man's foes shall be they of his own household...."

Grab your Bible and read on, maybe you'll learn something.

smyrna

12-10-2006, 04:37 PM

You are right, Ter, but because they are so zealous, so hell bent on being negative and trying to find fault, they typically ignore the obvious, for their minds are clouded with a type of kinetic, negative energy that is excited by the very thought of someone they oppose being wrong.

The problem with that is, that negative energy comes back to haunt them, and causes them to commit their own errors, in this case, easily missing the fact I was quoting Matthew 10, and not 1.

After all, if they knew the Bible as well as they claim, they would have known those verses were there, (and instantly recognized it was only a typo)simply by realizing they have read this also, but since they do not have that level of knowledge, they claimed it did not exist, as our cosmic buddy Frankie and Preacher's Daughter claimed.

Now they see this has backfired on them, because it illustrates that they did not even know these words of Christ, and for that they should truly be ashamed, especially after posing as those knowledgeable in the Bible. We're not talking about some obscure verses in Philemon or something. We are talking about the Words of Christ from a major New Testament book!

david_munson

12-10-2006, 04:52 PM

Smyrna,
did you know that the last pope (John Paul) said that the false prophet would be one of the future popes?
Or that the present pope (Benedict) bowed towards Mecca in prayer to appease the muslims just recently?

Makes one wonder.

}

smyrna

12-10-2006, 04:55 PM

Frankie laughs at Biblical truth, mocks it. Some modern Bible thumper like Frankie laughs and mocks what the Bible affirms in other places beyond Genesis. Satan, a fallen angel, commits the same atrocity as the Nephilim of Genesis 6. The sin of those fallen angels is mentioned in Jude,(going after strange flesh) which, by the way, was drawing from the prophecies of Enoch, who clearly stated that the fallen angels had relations with women, the resulting offspring were giants, beings themselves that were also mentioned in many places in Scripture.

The book of Enoch was known to the Ethiopian Church, and is part of their Canon. That's how much respect that book has among many Christians, both in that Church and others. But all this evidence Frankie ignores, and chooses to mock.

Because by mocking the first assault on the Messianic bloodline, and mocking the very explanation of the later events that were just further attempts to attack the Messianic line through the same means, he mocks God's Word, while it has become clear throughout our encounters with Frankie, that he is far from knowledgeable about the Bible, to a degree in which we should not even expect him to understand.

After all, this is a guy who did not even know that Jesus spoke the words which are recorded in Matthew 10:34-39. He gave himself away, and his ineptitude has been exposed, once again, I may add.

david_munson

12-10-2006, 04:56 PM

Oh yeah,
this Benedict guy wants to unite all religions under one umbrella.
That would require compromising God's Word.
That would fall under the statement that Christ made ,"there are many anti-Christs."

}

terluvire

12-10-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:
After all, this is a guy who did not even know that Jesus spoke the words which are recorded in Matthew 10:34-39. He gave himself away, and his ineptitude has been exposed, once again, I may add.

But Smyrna, don't you know, Franklin has the true interpretation. He told this to Angie in the Cultblunders thread.

terluvire

12-10-2006, 05:10 PM

Good Morning David,

Satan is sly and deceitful. He would be more than happy for people to believe that the ac is a flesh man. Whether one believes in the rapture or the AC being a flesh man (I think these 2 ideas go hand in hand), it leads to people not being mentally prepared for when satan appears defacto. They are not mentally prepared for the first supernatural being to appear to be satan himself. They will think the first supernatural being which appears to be Christ himself.

satan will dupe the whole world. Rev.13

smyrna

12-10-2006, 05:29 PM

Dave wrote:

Smyrna,
did you know that the last pope (John Paul) said that the false prophet would be one of the future popes?

No, I did not know, and I will have to see documentation that shows this is exactly what he said, and the full context of the statement from which it was taken.

In addition, even though JP II rightly campaigned for Christian unity, He did not expect to see, say, a reuniting of the Eastern Church with the West in his lifetime, and certainly has never envisioned a unification of all Christian Churches and an end to denominationalism ever.

As for Benedict XVI bowing towards Mecca, JP II kissed the Koran, both gestures were a sign of respect to others of different faith, and not as an endorsement of Islam.

Compare those gestures with the brotherly embrace of John Paul II with the Patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church, or JP II reaching across the table at lunch to Billy Graham, grabbing his hand gently and saying, "I'd like to begin this meeting with telling you, you are my brother."

david_munson

12-10-2006, 05:34 PM

Hello Turl,
though we agree on the substance of the topic,I believe that satan will possess a man in the near future who will seem to be a genius at solving the worlds problems until he is revealed for who he is.

Remember that satan likes to copy what God has done so it is readily accepted that he will also try to copy the incarnation of Christ in the flesh.
I doubt he will claim to be God until he enters the rebuilt temple.

I think that at some point he will help Israel rebuild the temple since they are not of the mind that the Christ is come in the flesh.

The Sanhedrin is now re-established and Isreal has two red heiffers in their possession.
The Red Heiffers are required for cleansing the temple and the priests.(ashes)

Priests are in training for ceremonial services according to scripture.(old testament)

The world is ripe for solutions and will recieve the pretender quite readily.
At least most will.

}

smyrna

12-10-2006, 05:35 PM

Ter,

Yes, it's funny that guys like Frankie, who usually are big critics of the Catholic Church, for saying they hold the true interpretation of Scripture through the Magisterium (teaching authority of the RCC)often claim the very same thing!

And whether one is Catholic or not, I'd be willing to bet most would agree that the Magisterium has a great deal over some cyberspace astronaut who also goes by the name Foxy Loxy. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

david_munson

12-10-2006, 05:41 PM

I should have included that Israel has returned in unbelief.
They reject Christ as messiah.
They are still looking for the "first" coming of Messiah even though He came already and died for our salvation.
This is why the pretender will be so quickly accepted by them.
Until he sits in the seat of authority in the temple claiming to be God.
Then they will run for the hills.
(many will anyway)

}

terluvire

12-10-2006, 05:43 PM

Hello David,

quote:
Remember that satan likes to copy what God has done so it is readily accepted that he will also try to copy the incarnation of Christ in the flesh.
I doubt he will claim to be God until he enters the rebuilt temple.

I agree with you, that satan is a copier. But listen, most if not all, are expecting Christ to return here defacto, not as a babe, incarnate in the flesh again. That is what satan will be copying.....Christ's return.

Peace,
Ter

terluvire

12-10-2006, 05:45 PM

Hi Smyrna,

I agree....lol

franklin

12-10-2006, 06:44 PM

"Frankie laughs at Biblical truth"

What truth do you supposedly know that I laughed at?

That Adam and Eve had sex with Satan?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

That's the same lie the Nazis, KKK and white supremacists believe.

Sieg Heil you Nazi bigot! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

preachers_daughter

12-10-2006, 07:07 PM

"After all, if they knew the Bible as well as they claim, they would have known those verses were there, (and instantly recognized it was only a typo)simply by realizing they have read this also, but since they do not have that level of knowledge, they claimed it did not exist, as our cosmic buddy Frankie and Preacher's Daughter claimed."

Smyrna, I really hate to burst your bubble, but I knew it was a typo. I was just enjoying the fact that an atheist pointed out your mistake.

dodge

12-10-2006, 08:52 PM

You seem to be telling us that Jesus condoned violence, by making Matthew 10’s reference to Jesus bringing a sword justify your aggression towards non-believers, Smyrna. My point was that one must take this passage in context, and not cite it in isolation in order for it to make sense. Do you think that Jesus was telling his disciples to go out and get swords, literal metal weapons? Do you believe that Jesus was calling for a military holy war on society? In that respect, you sound like a Jihadist, ready to harm those who don't believe as you do.

The context of this is in terms of family relationships. The “sword” means that following Jesus may not bring peace to a family in that original Jewish society, but may “split” it up. As I said, the sword is metaphorical. Jesus did not endorse physical violence against one’s own family, but is warning that there may be family division.

In the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus told Peter, “For all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52).

You also said to me, "So, according to your expert Biblical opinion Dodge, the Jesus Himself is guilty of violating God's commandments." What do you mean by that? I certainly did not say anything ever close to that.

smyrna

12-10-2006, 09:54 PM

Dodge,

You do not understand. Jesus was rough on those who tried to trip him up. I don't see how you get some physical Jihad war out of that. He did not condone violence, but he did certainly have no problem with Peter carrying a sword for protection. Why was Peter carrying that sword? Scripture clearly states it was his.

We had some gospel goofball on here a while back trying to weasel out of the same question by claiming it wasn't a sword, just maybe a small knife.

The point I was trying to make is that Jesus was verbally rough on those who tried to trip him up. By all indications, Paul wasn't any softie either.

So I really have to take issue with those who come on here and want everyone who claims to be a Christian to just lie back and let people verbally abuse them.

Paul got his rear end kicked more than once, and I can assure you it did not silence him. He insulted many people, or maybe I should say he upset them by showing them the error of their ways, and they were offended by it.

In closing, you misunderstood not only me, but Matthew 10, because it was clear, if you read the text in context,that Jesus was not advocating violence, and neither am I, but certainly He was alluding to people being divided over their loyalty to Him, with those who will not show forth such loyalty, though they be even in the same family.

God's word calls unbelievers fools. Jesus called the Pharisees vipers, that's rough language, the Bible is replete with more examples.

david_munson

12-11-2006, 12:33 AM

Turl,
I would also add that the pretender comes in his own name.
Christ came in the Father's name.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

The pretender comes for his own glory.
To try and make himself think that he is God.
Even though he knows that his time is short.

The night comes when no man can work.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Christ dwells in His body here on earth through the Holy Spirit within each believer.

}

dodge

12-11-2006, 02:26 AM

Smyrna --

"But anyone who says 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Jesus) Matthew 5:22

According to Jesus, the psalmist who wrote that those who do not believe in God are fools is in danger of hell for uttering the word "fool."

The psalm also says that fools do abominable works, and none of them do anything good. If you want to quote the Old Testament (psalms), then according to Psalm 14:3, "There is none that doeth good, no not one." Ecclesiastes 7:20 says "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."

There is much in the Old Testament that contradicts the New Testament, so if you want to use the OT to prove a point, then you must include it all. Do you adhere to all that is written in the Old Testament?

(Message edited by Dodge on December 10, 2006)

smyrna

12-11-2006, 05:46 AM

Yes, I do adhere to all that is written in the Old Testament. You need to do a study of dispensationalism.

dodge

12-11-2006, 06:32 AM

No, Smyrna, I do not "need" to study dispensationalism. If you are of that kind, then you must believe in pretribulational rapture, which is one of the central doctrines of dispensationalism. So you must believe that you will be snatched up in the rapture. Did you know that there are those who believe that dispensationalism is not only in error, but in fact is a pseudo Christian cult?

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 02:28 PM

godchild wrote,

I am only a messenger for Christ!

What a joke! She does nothing but lie about people, lie about the theological positions of PM and SCers, lie about herself and others, twist scripture, falsify the meanings of words from the original language, sows discord, and misrepresents whom she serves.

As anyone can plainly see, she is Satan's servant. She never proves any of her claims -- she just keeps throwing them out there [just like her master, Satan].

smyrna

12-11-2006, 02:57 PM

You tell me what I must believe, Dodge. You can tell me all you want, but I don't believe in the rapture doctrine or any of its variations.

When I mentioned dispensationalism, I brought it up because it offers one possibility of explaining why God appears to condone certain practices at one time verses another. I do not know if that is the answer, and I'm speaking in a broad sense and not adressing any specific practice at this time.

However, personally I have seen many so-called contradictions come and go, while engaging in Biblical studies, and I expect that dynamic to remain in motion.

In the case of the apparent contradiction of how Jesus would say if you call a brother fool... it relates to being called a wicked reprobate, and in this context it was to say do not call your brother wicked, and this is confirmed by the earlier admonition to not call your brother "Raca" which is to express disdain due to anger without justification.

Thus,the context of Matthew 5:22 is addressing being angry with your brother without just cause.

In other references where one is called a fool, or foolish person, it is in a different context altogether, commonly the inference is describing a person who is acting foolishly.

Therefore, one is disposed to calling a person foolish, or a fool, if there is clear justification for doing so. If there is not, then it of course is akin to making false accusations.

In cases where there is honest disagreement, it thus is allowable, for otherwise there would be a true contradiction, but as I have illustrated, it is not.

terluvire

12-11-2006, 05:35 PM

Hello Smyrna,

Good post!

The use of fool in Matt.5:22 means a wicked reprobate, one without any hope spiriutally.

And yes your right. One has to look at the context..."being angry at your brother without just cause."

The word "fool" used in Psalms 14 means stupid, wicked, foolish.

God's word never contradicts. If we see contradictions, it is from our lack of understanding the Scriptures, never from God himself.

Peace,
Ter

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 05:39 PM

dodge,

We all know that franklin engaged you [franklin's bitter enemy at the Evolotion threads] to sow discord here among the SC threads.

Since you are a professed atheist, which means that you have disdain for all Christian beliefs, the question naturally arises as to why the cultblunderers need your services.

If SC teaches heresy, SCers are cultists, and the cultblunders are cultbusters as the cultblunderers claim, then the cultblunderers should have absolutely little trouble in proving SCers incorrect and busting up an alleged cult on their own accord. The mere fact that franklin wanted you to join his mythical crew to fight the dreaded Serpent Seeders should raise a red flag in the logical mind of an atheist.

After all, an atheist bases beliefs on logic and science. It is not logical for a true 'cultbuster' to solicit an atheist's help to defeat an alleged cult.

The topic of this thread is Cultbusters really is a Cult!. So far, you have not been on topic. One would logically think that, since the folks at cultblunders need your help, they lack facts and scriptural support for their theological positions.

I'm sure that you are aware of these fundamentalists' positions which you rejected long ago for a belief in atheism.

First, they believe the earth is only 12,000 years old. Since Adam was formed approximately 6,000 years ago and since a day with God equals 1,000 years with man [II Pet. 3:8], the six days of creation took 6,000 years. Hence, the earth is 12,000 years old.

Second, as an evolutionist, you will find this cultblunderers' theology humorous. Since the Bible doesn't speak of dinosaurs, mammoths, and all of the many species that have come and gone long ago, such scientific findings are nothing more than bad science. They never existed because their interpretation of the Bible leaves no room for such life.

Third, the cultblunderers believe that all of mankind evolved from one set of pure-blooded parents within 6,000 years. Actually, it was more like 4,000 years since only Noah and his family survived that flood. As an evolutionist, you know that all of the various races could not have evolved from one set of parents that quickly.

Therefore, logic suggests that you are on the wrong side of the argument. The beliefs of the cultblunderers, as identified herein, are clearly at odds with science and the facts of life.

If you take the time to review the theological positions offerred here, you will see that the SCers' beliefs align with science and logic. We know the cultblunderers' fundamentalists' views are inconsistent with science. That is why they can never shake us in the least bit.

Furthermore, that is why the cultblunderers' persistent conviction to such beliefs that defy science, nature, and logic, despite the overwhelming evidence that they are wrong, qualifies the cultblunderers as a cult themselves.

Despite our personal differences in beliefs, I believe that you can agree with my position regarding the cultblunderers.

terluvire

12-11-2006, 05:48 PM

Hi Watchman,

I had to scroll up and see where godchild said she was a messenger of Christ.

Here it is:
Quote:
I have never claimed to be a Pastor or a biblical scholar. I believe I get under all of your skin so much because you cannot deal with the truth, and must have a person to blame. I am only a messenger for Christ!

Wow, she says we can't deal with truth [meaning her truth] and that she is Christ's messenger.
If she had truth as she claims to, she would have never referred to Joseph as Christ's father.

And you're right Watchman, she has outright lied many times, slanders, bears false witness...etc.
Christ would never condone such behaviour.

Peace,
Ter

dodge

12-11-2006, 06:25 PM

Watchman2 -- your contention that Franklin engaged me to sow discord here in the SC threads is preposterous. But it ought to yank Franklin’s chains enough for him to come over here and go into a tirade about your accusation. That should be fun!

You are in error also about me, that I “Have disdain for all Christian beliefs.” I question, sometimes I poke fun, use satire; but I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, and I have a firm belief in what you know of as “the Christ,” that essence of “light” that is within all of us, yet is not known by most of humanity because it is sleeping, unformed as of yet in them. I don’t expect anyone to believe what I do, and I’m certainly not saying that my belief is better than anyone else’s. But I enjoy, am stimulated, by intelligent discourse…something that is mostly lacking here in the FactNet forum threads. What I see here is a “holier than thou” attitude, that “I’m right and you’re wrong.”

Having said that, I like to debate belief systems. But I’m really not coming from an atheistic perspective, I’m more of a “Gnostic,” if you will; because I believe that there is a “source” of all there is, the ground of all being, which I “pray” to in my own way. But I can’t call myself a “Christian,” because I am aware that this inner light, this connection to the All that is within all of us, is perceived in many ways…and in Christianity as “Christ.” This is the “God image” that every person has, but which is perceived differently according to one’s…gifts and understanding. Some have experienced it directly, and know it by whatever name they use; while others have faith and believe it because the Bible tells them so. But I’m not here to advocate my particular way of spirituality.

As far as whether the Earth and all that is on it is less than 12,000 years, it just doesn’t seem that way to me according to what I’ve read, thought about, and considered. But this is not an evolution/creation thread, so I will try to remain on topic. I have studied the beliefs of Shepherds Chapel, and I’ve studied the Bible closely. I don’t agree with your interpretation, and I don’t agree with Franklin’s either, which is basically “fundamentalist.” As far as Cultbusters, which you like to call “Cultblunders,” I have little to say. It’s all Franklin’s creation, when the administration here at FactNet deleted his space voyage thread. It is not up to me to judge him, or you. I can only tell you what I see when I read Biblical verses, and we can take it from there. I do have a problem with the Serpent Seed Doctrine; but is there really anything more to say about that?

Of course, if you would care to challenge me and show me what Biblical verses back up your beliefs, I would consider them and share with you my views. But I don’t know if that’s what you want to do, Watchman2. At any rate, I respect you, and your beliefs, even though I don’t share them. Be well, Goddess bless.

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 06:39 PM

dodge,

There is plenty of documentation for the Serpent Seed Doctrine here under the SC threads. It was recently proven again within the last week or so under the 'Cultblunders and Shepherd's Chapel' thread.

The evidence for the SS Doctrine is compelling. One cannot explain Genesis and not add or delete from the scriptures without accepting the truth of this Doctrine.

Once you have had a chance to review all of the documentation, I, or any other SCer, can answer your questions or points of disagreement with the scriptures.

As you can see from the cultblunderers' posts, they cannot verify their beliefs with scripture; whereas, the SC position is always grounded in scripture. The cultblunderers have no choice but to resort to name calling, distraction, etc.

As you know, such tactics employed by the cultblunderers are a sure sign of a debate loser. They cannot discuss anything without resorting to such tactics.

godchild

12-11-2006, 08:26 PM

No, terlu, once again you all try to twist my words. It is am who said "I am an end time messenger of God", not me. I said I am a messenger FOR Christ. Do you know what a messenger is? It's someone who shares the "Good News", in the Hebrew "to tell good news". Don't you consider yourself a messenger for Christ? If not, why are you here?

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 08:34 PM

See the following thread:

FACTNet Message Board » Religious Cults and Sects » Religious Leaders / Organizational Leaders / TV Evangelists / Pastors / Ministers / Personal Ministries » Jack Van Impe Ministries International

Starting on Feb. 10, 2006, godchild made several posts. Yet, she tries to claim:

Why do you associate me with Jack Van Impe. I don't listen to him or read anything he writes. Never have.

I wonder why she would be visiting the JVI threads if she NEVER listened to or read anything by JVI?

Isn't the Feb. 10, 2006 date the time that godchild started harassing SCers??

Could it have something to do with the fact that godchild and JVI are big 'rapturists'??

One can connect the dots.

angie0401

12-11-2006, 08:36 PM

What Good News have YOU shared lately, Vivian?

Hate, lies and slander is not the Good News.

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 08:38 PM

One can make up stories- as you are known to do(Watchman2).

Watchman2, are you a direct descendent of Adam?

(Message edited by rachelengland on December 11, 2006)

smyrna

12-11-2006, 08:44 PM

Great Detective work, Watchman! I knew you had something on Godchild about Van Impe.

Once again you have shown she is dishonest, to say the least.

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 08:55 PM

rachelengland,

I am sure that you are an expert on story telling -- look at your boyfriend, franklin.

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 08:57 PM

I love looking at my boyfriend thank-you.

Are you a direct descendant of Adam?

terluvire

12-11-2006, 09:00 PM

No, godchild, I never did claim to be a "messenger" for Christ. He already sent us his message, the written word of God. I am only a student of Christ's, his humble servant. I am not a personal messenger for the Lord.

Please document where Pastor Murray claimed to "I am an end time messenger of God"'

Funny how you speak against him for saying that (which he didn't) when you claim the same thing for yourself...ie a messenger for Christ.

If you think you are doing the work of Christ, you better check again. Christ would not resort to slander and outright lies, mistruths, inuendos..etc.

Why should we listen to you when the very basics of Christianity rest in Christ being the only begotten son of God and yet you put Joseph as his father?

Sorry godchild, but whatever message you have, I don't want it.

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 09:02 PM

Are any of you shepherd Chapel students direct descendants of Adam?????

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 09:20 PM

Well...do any of you know? What day were your forefathers created on?? Any of you??? What is it around here- you want to bash but you won't answer my simple little pregunta??

Are you watchman2, a direct descendant of Adam. Has the Lord revealed that to you thru scripture???

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 09:25 PM

How about Arnie is he a direct descendant of Adam mmmmm Murray now that sounds a bit Irish English to me-could he be.....

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 09:45 PM

I bet eagleman knows he is always up for the hard questions. EAGLEMAN-by any chance are YOU a direct descendant of Adam the first man created? Or are you a descendant from those created on the "other" day?

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 10:00 PM

rachelengland,

I have been on the record in the SC threads that I am a direct descendant of Adam since I show blood/red in the face [blush]. I don't know what other ethnicities are involved in my lineage; but, I know that I am at least from Adam.

Your question is not difficutlt -- just redundant.

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 10:07 PM

Ahhhhh I get it! Your from the perfect, very first race of Adam. Wow, I blush too, I have lovely, ivory skin and England is my family name. You are so blessed Watchman to have been chosen of God to be from this particular bloodline-which Jesus also belongs to. Well we sure know you are on your way to heaven brother.

I appreciate your honesty. I was just wondering if the rest of your classmates were also of fromAdams lineage.

arron

12-11-2006, 10:13 PM

whoopie i blush too... i am very fair skined and good looking with it.

angie0401

12-11-2006, 10:16 PM

Rachel,
I don't know if I am a direct descendant of Adam or not. In high school, I traced one side of my family back to Anne Boleyn's family. However, I've got a little bit of all ethnicities in my family tree and I love every one of them.

Does that answer your question?

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 10:18 PM

Who said the Adamic race was perfect? Certainly, it was not any SCer. Of course, you know that Noah was perfect in his generations -- didn't you.

Oh yes, as Biblical authorities over there at cultblunders, I'm sure that you realize that the grandchildren of Noah migrated into the Gentiles' lands, which can only be explained by the fact that the Gentiles existed before Noah's flood and survived Noah's flood.

Oh yes, the fact that the Gentiles existed before the flood means that the divine act of creating the races had to take place before the flood as well. I wonder when this happened?? Seems to me, in reading my Bible, the only divine act that can be attributed to the creation of all of the races took place in Gen. 1:26-27.

[rachelengland thinks to herself -
Hmm -- that might also explain whom Cain was araid of, how the land of Nod got its name, and where the woman came from whom Cain married.

Naa -- this Bible stuff can't be true because franklin told me that all races evolved from a single set of parents of unknown race.]

rachelengland

12-11-2006, 10:20 PM

Yes, Angie that was perfect. I am just surprised that watchman2 was able to trace his bloodline all the way back to Adam. I would love to see his family tree.

Anne Bolelyn that is too neat! I imagine with all those different races in your family however your family memebers were probably a mixture of Adam and those created on the "other" day- if there was another day of human creation.

Thanks again!

watchman_2

12-11-2006, 10:33 PM

rachelengland,

You wrote, I am just surprised that watchman2 was able to trace his bloodline all the way back to Adam. I would love to see his family tree.

I didn't say that I could trace my lineage back. Look up the definition and meaning of the name Adam and you will have your answer.

This is old news and has been covered many times with you Biblically illiterate people.

angie0401

12-11-2006, 10:40 PM

Anne Bolelyn that is too neat! I imagine with all those different races in your family however your family memebers were probably a mixture of Adam and those created on the "other" day- if there was another day of human creation.

You're right, my family is probably a mixture - I've never really thought about it too much. I've got "adopted" family (not officially adopted, I just love them so much I wish they were truly family) of all races as well, so "race" is not a consideration for me. I just feel blessed that God opened my eyes to the Truth and that He loves me, even with all of my many, many faults. It would be great if we could emulate that love, wouldn't it?