The Seasons fig tree botches study of the Bible [Archive]

smyrna

03-24-2007, 04:27 PM

We don't have to get back into the garbage that Godchild is dragging up again. All we have to do is recommend that anyone go to the season.org, and check out the context by which the comments are made. No man can tell the future with any degree of accuracy, and Pastor Murray clearly teaches this.

Once again, Godchild, in her CB spirit,distorts and misrepresents the p0sots at Figtree, which is a forum at the Season.

But since she is dragging stuff out of the closet, so to speak, I'll egt some time later to really hammer the fact she is quite guilty of spinning, making up things, and clearly lying on many occasions.

One recent example is that a poster at Cultbusters specifically detailed the Church building the SC owns, yet Godchild came here and STILL denied that the SC has their own building, and it is painfully evident that ever her own beloved CB people know this is not true.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

Godchild ought to shape up AND ship out! And she will, when I get through reminding us all of her lies and make believe posts.

godchild

03-25-2007, 07:56 PM

from the fig tree:

Robdnwnt
3/14/07
Re: Dan 6 Lions den

i haven't went through todays study yet but i remember PM touched on the lions mouth in rev 13 as if the kenites speak as or like judah? please refresh me if I misunderstood, thanks
God Bless
-----------------------------------------
irishrain
3/14/07
Re: Dan 6 Lions den
-----------------
Hi RobdnWht

Quote:
------------------------
lions mouth in rev 13 as if the kenites speak as or like judah?
---------------------------------

He said "Kenites claim to be judah, speaks like judah. "
Yes they will say they are jews, but are not and do lie. Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9. You know how lions like to rip tear up their victims.

Lions are know for their loud roars. One can call them "loud mouths." The lions roar can't hurt us. Fathers "truth" will shut their mouths, just like in Daniel.

Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

godchild

03-25-2007, 08:07 PM

from the fig tree:
"we have a marriage this year"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did anyone notice on Current Events 2007, Pastor Murray says at the beggining "we have a marriage this year that i find fascinating"

Did he say this or have i got it wrong?

Thanks

- Tom
Well he does say it !

Quote:
------------------------------------------
And as we look at prophecy and as we look at current events we have a marriage this year that is, I find fascinating.
-------------------------------------

At least that is what I hear ! And what does he mean by it ? Well I don't know, but I know which study I need to listen too on our way up to the Skagit river this morning. We're off to see the Bald Eagles feasting on Salmon.

And when I get back I hope to read who hooked up what prophecy ? I can think of only one but I'm not sure he is saying that.

Agape .. Half Decent .. >>>
Re: "we have a marriage this year"
--------------------------------------
Yummm....I love wedding cake!
Mgarner

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31
--------------

Woops, guess Ill have to wear the Gospel armor,seems more fitting!

Mgarner
--------------
And as we look at prophecy and as we look at current events we have a marriage this year that is, I find fascinating.

-----------------

Subject was cleaning the sanctuary
Object- types

A marriage where types in "History" meets "Prophecy".
History was a type (1 Cor 10:11)for us today. Now we are about to see Prophecy become History.

A marriage is when "one joins another."

marriage Gr 1062 gamoV gamos gam'-os
of uncertain affinity; nuptials:--marriage, wedding.

There will be no more types.

And this will bring about two more weddings. Satan's then Yahshua's at the end.
The Hebrews were never Jews!!! The word "Jew" never appeared in the Bible until modern times. The first appearance of the word "Jew" occurs in II Kings and they were fighting the Israelites. He is counting on your social brainwashing and general ignorance of the subject to denigrate CI. He is a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing. Beware!!! If you really want to see what he is all about then just do a search using his name and look for ‘all posts’ and you will see his agenda. CI is the ONLY Christian racialist faith that is the avowed enemy of the Jews and HE attacks our faith and us. “Ye shall know them by their fruits”.
------------
I'll let you folks figure out this interpretation. Is smyrna even able to read what is being said there? Sounds to me like he was banned. Of course, I could be wrong about that. He might be using a different name there now, like he tried to do at cultbusters after he got banned there. I have a good idea he's one of these trying to sabotage cultbusters with porn and trash.--Vivian

skooter942000

03-26-2007, 12:06 AM

any year (Could be the year), DEAR!!!

For CHRIST to RETURN.

'i' can't wait, for HIM to set things STRAIGHT!!!

- So stop LYING VIVIAN.

Pastor never said (this """IS""" the year).
= 100% sure

The LORD REBUKE YOU SATAN (In JESUS CHRIST'S NAME)

- What a WICKED CHILD you are GC.

- Spreading LIES and GOSSIP

we have already been through this.

Yet here you are again...(no PROOF)

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all
things; and I will be his God, and he shall be
my son.

= (a true GOD-CHILD)
= those who revere God as their father,

Rev 21:8
But the fearful,
and unbelieving,
and the abominable,
and murderers,
and whoremongers,
and sorcerers,
and idolaters,
and all liars,
shall have their part in the lake
which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.

'Enjoy your rewards'

(YAH'S WILL BE DONE HERE)
- i ask in JESUS NAME.

smyrna

03-26-2007, 01:41 AM

WHERE DOES GODCHILD GET HER ACCUSATION I WAS BANNED FROM FIGTREE?

This is another made up accusation.

Furthermore, once again, the SC is NOT responsible for speculations of students, and as any person from any church is capable of error, Godchild is once again just playing games.

If she wants me to splatter these forums with all of her freaked out,absolutely false and erroneous statements, she can just keep it up.

I find it amazing that she continuously comes here with the same stuff over and over again, while she bumbles her way into yet another slam dunk illustration of just how ridiculous she can be.

Yesterday, she insinuated that SC students would "martyr" Pastor Murray after he dies!

That is so stupid, one only has to look up the definition of the word to show she has NO CLUE to what it even means!

Let's give her a hint: You can't martyr someone unless YOU kill that person!

Godchild, you are an IDIOT.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

godchild

03-27-2007, 03:08 AM

Martyr: Outside of an academic or religious context, the word "martyr" is used ironically in casual conversation to refer to someone who seeks attention or sympathy by exaggerating the impact upon themselves of some deprivation or work. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

Need smearna and scooter be reminded they too are only "students of am/sc" and their "speculations" shouldn't be considered any more valuable than the rest of them.

smyrna

03-27-2007, 11:44 AM

Godchild compounds her earlier ridiculous mistake with yet another flimsy, and even more ridiculous attempt to cover her tracks:

"Martyr: Outside of an academic or religious context.."

And BINGO! She originally used the term IN "an academic and religious context" and therefore misused the term which once again just affirms how silly and ridiculous her comments are, like we really need to be reminded that is all she ever comes up with.

Furthermore, I'd love for Godchild to attempt to claim that Pastor Murray "seeks attention or sympathy by exaggerating the impact upon themselves of some deprivation or work" using Pastor Murray's own words, and not the words of her fellow accusers, because their words are, as we see with hers, silly and worthless, but for entertainment only.

smyrna

04-02-2007, 04:36 AM

STILL waiting for Godchild to prove more of her ridiculous accusations.

I do, however, appreciate that she doesn't know the definition of Martyr, and the absolutely stupid way she tried to spin out of misusing the term.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Time for some more of your flaming red letter posts, Whackchild?

godchild

04-02-2007, 07:22 PM

FROM THESEASON BIBLE STUDY:

Hi yahslittleone, I think Roger Christopherson’s study on this subject is pretty much in line with PM. You can find it at www.theseason.org/mark/mark13.htm (http://www.theseason.org/mark/mark13.htm)

Here is a specific sample from that site of the subject you are looking for;

Quote:
----------------------------
Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."
(OF COURSE THE SCERS THINK THIS IS ABOUT WHO. WHY, THEM, OF COURSE. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32.
Acts 2:17

Acts 2:18
Acts 2:19 Acts 2:20
Acts 2:21 When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken. These trials will be made public to the world, and it will be as the two churches of Revelation 2:9; and 3:9 taught, and it is important that you know exactly what they did teach.

Those churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught about the synagogue of Satan, about those that claimed to be of God, of Judah, but lied and were not. These churches taught how you would know and identify who the Kenites were. Those Kenites claimed to be of Judah [Jews] but were a bunch of liars, who in fact were nothing more than the sons and daughters of Satan. They were members of the synagogue of Satan, they are the Kenites that are taking over the entire religious community, and it is time to wake up. We will be delivered up into their synagogues and tried before them. This is part of God's plan, whereby God can speak through you by the Holy Spirit.
----------------------------------------END
NOT ONE WORD HERE ABOUT SALVATION. WOE TO THESE HATE-MONGERS!

smyrna

04-02-2007, 07:32 PM

Smyrna: "Time for some more of your flaming red letter posts, Whackchild?"

And THERE they are!

She wrote:
"NOT ONE WORD HERE ABOUT SALVATION. WOE TO THESE HATE-MONGERS!'

Smyrna: I wonder how many posts we can take that were written by Godchild that can be given the same "analysis" she gave the above posts?

Drinking again, Godchild? Your judgment really seems to be impaired today.

godchild

04-02-2007, 07:35 PM

WHY SHOULD SCER'S PREACH SALVATION? THINK ABOUT IT. THEY THINK THEY ARE EXEMPT; BECAUSE OF AM'S TWISTED INTERPRETATION OF THE 'ELECT', THEY 'PROVED' THEMSELVES IN A PREVIOUS LIFE, BEFORE CHRIST SACRIFICED HIMSELF FOR US. JESUS' CRUCIFIXION MEANS NOTHING TO THEM.

DOESN'T THAT SOUND EXACTLY LIKE ONE OF SATAN'S LIES? THEY BELIEVE WHEN THE BIBLE SAYS "NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THEM. THEY THINK THEY WILL COME TO THE FATHER BY THEMSELVES. WOE UNTO THEM!

smyrna

04-02-2007, 07:45 PM

Godchild, Got the day off? waiting for another client? What is it today you have time to think up more nonsense and lies?

Anyway, this definitely proves that once again, Godchild really has NO IDEA what the Chapel teaches.

For if she did, she would have known better than to make such a stupid, ridiculous, absolutely silly post like she did above.

Just about every Q & A session on the SC program will prove that, as well as so many instances of Bible teaching during the programs.

But we are used to that, aren't we?

"We believe salvation is by grace through faith, and it is the gift of God, and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). It must be preached (Romans 10:14) and it is ***necessary for all*** (Romans 3:23)"

SC Statement of Faith

http://www.shepherdschapel.com/statement1.htm

godchild

04-02-2007, 08:12 PM

ROGER C.'S LESSON CONT.:
This famine is what Jesus is talking about here in Mark 13:8. When you shall hear of these "famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows."

This word "sorrows" as used in the Greek are "birth pangs". These are the labor pains that come to a woman before the birth actually comes. As the birth draws closer to delivery, these pangs get closer and closer until they are virtually one on top of the other until the child finally comes. This is in reference though to the birth of a new age. That new age is the Millennium age, that starts with the return of Christ. Remember that these "birth pangs" [seals or prophecies] are the subject of this chapter, "What are the sign that we shall see before Christ's return?" So the signs of Christ's return are when the birth pangs start, when the famine or the lack of knowledge for hearing God's Word becomes common, and the masses of the people will turn to listen to false teachers and false prophets and turn to their traditions.

You hear it all the time; "Here is Christ message to you," one will say; another says, "This is the message God gave me to give to you;" and so on. They all claim to be from Christ and with His message given to them by Christ for you. All the denominations claim to have the inside track to Jesus Christ and His Word, yet very few of them will give you the actually Word of God with the knowledge from the manuscripts. The people are hungry for the Word, yet all these false teachers are given is bits and morsels of half truths, just enough to keep the money flowing to their offering plates. So the third seal is when the religious world presents the famine for the hearing of the Word of God.
--------END

AMAZING THAT AM/SC PREACHES HATING OTHER PREACHERS, AND NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR, LOVING YOUR BROTHER, DOING UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. AM'S STUDENTS WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE HE DOESN'T ASK FOR YOUR MONEY. THEY HAVE SAID SO RIGHT HERE AT FACTNET MORE THAN ONCE. YET, SMEARNA STARTED A THREAD HERE JUST FOR THAT PURPOSE, AND MOST OF THE SCER'S WHO POST HERE JUMPED AT THE CHANCE. ARE THERE NO POOR IN THIS WORLD THAT THEY COULD GIVE TO? DOES AM NEED ANOTHER JET? OR MAYBE HE'S RAISING MONEY TO BUY A BUILDING LARGE ENOUGH TO FIT ALL HIS PASSOVER VISITOR'S, INSTEAD OF RENTING A HALL. AFTER 50 YRS. OF PREACHING (ACCORDING TO HIM) YOU'D THINK HE COULD AFFORD A BUILDING LARGE ENOUGH TO ACCOMPANY THE 12 MIL. FOLLOWERS http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif (OR IS THAT HIS WISHFUL THINKING?) HE BRAGS ABOUT, EVEN THOUGH HE CLAIMS NO MEMBERSHIP, NOT EVEN FOR HIMSELF. SEE HIS 'STATEMENT OF FAITH'. READ FOR YOURSELF WHERE HE SAYS THE ONLY GROUP HE IS AFFILIATED WITH IS THE CHOSIN FEW.

smyrna

04-02-2007, 09:48 PM

Godchild wrote:

"AMAZING THAT AM/SC PREACHES HATING OTHER PREACHERS, AND NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR,..."

No, what is amazing is that you can't author one post where you don't make up some silly accusations.

Pastor Murray teaches Deuteronomy, as well as all the other Biblical books.

I won't even give Godchild the passage from that book (since she doesn't think Moses wrote it anyway)that Jesus quoted about loving one's neighbor.

Every time Godchild says something about what pastor Murray teaches, 90% is either a lie or her own special version of what he teaches, which no one at the SC would agree with, since she is just plain crazy.

Furthermore, it is very interesting she is so concerned with loving her neighbors, yet all she does is come on here and make silly accusations, spread rumors, and otherwise act like the crazy old lady she is.

Her poor chicks, if she really has some, must be starving.

"? DOES AM NEED ANOTHER JET? OR MAYBE HE'S RAISING MONEY TO BUY A BUILDING LARGE ENOUGH TO FIT ALL HIS PASSOVER VISITOR'S, INSTEAD OF RENTING A HALL. AFTER 50 YRS. OF PREACHING (ACCORDING TO HIM) YOU'D THINK HE COULD AFFORD A BUILDING LARGE ENOUGH TO ACCOMPANY THE 12 MIL. FOLLOWERS"

If he needs another PLANE(there is a difference between a plane and a jet, Godchild)I'll gladly donate more money. One thing you still don't know about the Chapel, they do not ask for money for specific things, like so many other TV ministries. Just another indication you don't know what you are talking about.

You are really having a bad day, Godchild. Did you get fired, Vivian? It's obvious you aren't doing anything today but entertaining me on the web.You're doing a good job, too!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

skooter942000

04-02-2007, 11:27 PM

- still no proof http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

A LIE is "A LIE"

- And LIES come from "WHOM"?


Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech?
[even] because ye cannot hear my word.

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil,
and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
...When he speaketh a lie,
......he speaketh of his own:
....for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jhn 8:45 And because I tell [you] the truth,
ye believe me not.

arron

04-04-2007, 03:47 PM

i heard an old tape or program of arnold murray teaching the other day. he kept talking about 1981 was the time for something i could not understand what he was talking about as i got in on the last part of it he was talking about ezekiel and daniel so i dont know perhaps some one could enlighten me.

smyrna

04-04-2007, 04:29 PM

Yeah, well I DO understand, because I saw the same program. He said there APPEARED to be a common denominator based upon the outline of the times spoken of by Daniel, which can be examined not only in the Book of Daniel itself, but also outlined in Appendixes 89 & 90 of the Companion Bible.

And I am happy you brought this up, Arron, because this is where the ignorant critics of Pastor Murray came up with their accusations, which continue to this day, about how he thinks he is "a prophet" and makes predictions that do not come true, and cite some "failed" 1981 prediction that they can never document where it came from.

Websites critical of Murray mention some tape of his, yet no one has ever produced such a tape, nor any other direct evidence form the Chapel.

The FACT of the matter is, he says he CANNOT state what will happen this year or any other year, just that the numbers given in Daniel point to a determination between 1947 or '48 and 1981, and using the common denominator leads us to 2007, but AT NO TIME did he ever say there is going to be a specific event this year just that it is an interesting study that inspires us to remain eve vigilant of current events as they MAY relate to Bible prophecy itself, not his prophecy, the Bible's prophetic Books.

Now I am going to get a tape of that study, and learn a bit more about that lecture.

And I am saddened, actually saddened, that there are people that are so full of hate and malice, that they themselves refuse even to study for themselves.

Because like you Arron, and your partners who have denied satan exists, and claim Moses didn't write the Torah, are too busy trying to find things to disagree with Pastor Murray about, so you can keep crying "heretic" and "false teacher", that you don't have time to study anything yourselves.

I'm willing to bet that if I asked any of you detractors how THEY see the time lines given in Daniel, all I would get is some copy and paste jobs, and probably different and conflicting ones too, coming from you CBers, every time you feel the need to have to show your "brilliant" exegetical talents.

Scrambling for answers by looking up websites that "sound good" to you is NOT scholarship, Arron, and your CB buddies are clearly guilty of doing that, as I can show over and over, like Franklin/Gavin's "study" of Enoch, and "illogial_al's " cut and paste job "commentary" about satan not existing or Moses NOT writing the Torah.

arron

04-04-2007, 04:37 PM

smyrna .. where have i denied that satan exsist? please give evidence . i do be lieve that satan exsist. he was there in the garden he is here today. he inhabited judas iscarot. alos i know that moses did write the torah , please give evidenc where i said i di not believe that? dont just accuse me when there is no evidence. oh and dont twist someones wrod and say i said ir did something that i idnt do.

arron

04-04-2007, 04:44 PM

i too would like to have a tape od that so i could see what things he was referrin too. yes i believe the book of daniel as well as the whole bible .. no i do not accept the book of enoch as part of the bible we have. yes i know it is spoken of in one place what enoch said but i do not accept the book of enoch. i do accept what the bible says he said. i believe that daniel is yet future and that most i say mot of the thing will happen after the church s gone in the rapture. dont even ask about the rapture as i believe in it and i know you dont so we wont even get started in that direvction. and where in the world did you get that i dont believe in satn anyway?

smyrna

04-04-2007, 05:02 PM

Arron:

You wrote:"smyrna .. where have i denied that satan exsist? please give evidence . i do be lieve that satan exsist."

I never said you denied it, I said you participated on a thread called let's talk About Satan at CB where "illogical_al" denied Moses wrote the Torah, and that satan was only a concept.

I just got finished posting the evidence on the "Shepherd's Chapel students banned at many CHRISTIAN BOARDS" thread, the one with 54 posts so far, since Godchild stupidly created two threads with that title.

So go to it, Arron, and read it yourself.

arron

04-05-2007, 04:05 PM

on post 2120 you said who have diened that satan exsist and that moses wrote tohe torah. it is there so dont say it isnt read it yourself/// you said because like you arron and your partners who have denied that satan exsist and that moses wrote the torah.

oneway

04-05-2007, 04:19 PM

arron,

i am in no way defending smyrna, but I read that post. The way that smyrna posed that sentence indicates that he was saying that you are too busy trying to find things to disagree with Pastor Murray, like your partners who have denied satan exists, and claim Moses
didn't write the Torah.

I'm pretty certain he wasn't claiming you denied satan exists or that you claim that Moses didn't write the Torah. I'm starting to wonder if this ongoing fued between both sides is a result of misinterpreting what one is really saying?

A good example, the scers are constantantly accusing the cbers of lying. I think it's more of misinterpreting of what the cbers are really saying. It's a communication breakdown on both sides.

(Message edited by oneway on April 05, 2007)

(Message edited by oneway on April 05, 2007)

smyrna

04-05-2007, 04:51 PM

That's right Arron, I did say that. And I already explained that you did not disagree with "illogical_al" so therefore it is probable that you agreed with him.

If you did not agree with him, I am asking you now why you did not tell him you disagreed, and that you believe that satan does exist, and that Moses did write the Torah?

You still have a chance to set the record straight, Arron. The Let's Talk About Satan thread is still open.

Why don't you go there and post that you disagree with "illogical_al"?

godchild

04-05-2007, 04:56 PM

quote:
Because like you Arron, and your partners who have denied satan exists, and claim Moses didn't write the Torah, are too busy trying to find things to disagree with Pastor Murray about, so you can keep crying "heretic" and "false teacher", that you don't have time to study anything yourselves. (All of which are more of smearna's lies anyway.)

oneway, There is every reason for anyone reading smyrna's post to think he was including arron in the "your partners who have denied satan exists, and claim Moses didn't write the Torah".

smearna included arron in "you don't have time to study anything yourselves." arron has been watching am for some time now. Of course, scer's just don't like what arron is hearing, because their ears are closed. Do they credit him with 'listening' to their leader? Not at all. They still attack him. I think arron probably, on his worst day, could quote more scripture than you all could in a lifetime, and correctly understand its meaning.

I wouldn't call it a communication "breakdown". I would call it scer's breakdown. Look at the new thread smearna and terlu started just to show how foolish and immature they really are.

I'm looking forward to sharing those photos along with their posts to other friends who have long doubted the sincerity of scer's saying they are serving God. abi will say this is "tough love", but then, abi is another two-sided phenomena, wanting to be another mother theresa but coming across as just another 'wannabee'. She really should concentrate on finding whatever gift God gave her. This suggestion really is intended for her good.

terluvire

04-05-2007, 05:04 PM

godchild said:
I'm looking forward to sharing those photos along with their posts to other friends who have long doubted the sincerity of scer's saying they are serving God.

First off, we (SCers) are Christians first and foremost. I don't care what you and your cohorts think. Our approval does not come from any of you but God himself. Since when did God put any of you in charge?

Second, the photos were posted to disprove your lie about SC not having a church. AND...we did just that! Keep trying to twist it anyway you want goddchild, it won't work. The evidence is posted for all to see.

Have a great day. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Ter

smyrna

04-05-2007, 05:13 PM

That's right, Ter,

How much are you willing to bet that Godchild will NOT "bother" to share all of her accusations that the SC does not have its own building, along with the photos?

The woman is shamelsss. A person, especially a Christian person,does not make baseless accusations, and keep making them in spite of our claims the Church did exist,despite the FACT we many times said just watch the SC program, long enough to see the Church that is in your photos clearly on the SC broadcast.

Yet she still accused.

But to her, that is perfectly alright. And we know why. Because as I have noted, it is not a sin, to Cbers, to lie to or about anyone they consider "pagans."

Now I dare her to say just because someone said that on CB, does not mean she believes that way. Because when she does that, I'll have to point out to her that she uses the "guilt by association" scheme all the time, they all do.

oneway

04-05-2007, 05:16 PM

godchild,

you stated: "oneway, There is every reason for anyone reading smyrna's post to think he was including
arron in the "your partners who have denied satan exists, and claim Moses didn't write the
Torah".

You are probably right. smyrna does indeed seem to a have a very strange vendetta against you all and me too. FWIW, I don't think you all from CB are lying about anything. I just feel the scers fail to consider and follow context of what you're saying and what I'm saying, too. So I would like to retract what I said in the prev post. It seems that I may have been wrong.

terluvire

04-05-2007, 05:32 PM

Hi Smyrna

Quote:
Because as I have noted, it is not a sin, to Cbers, to lie to or about anyone they consider "pagans."

Ahhh, that's right! I read that at CB. Maybe they can share some Scripture to enlighten us where Christ states such a thing.

This is what I see our Lord saying:

Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Exo 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Actually their behavior reminds me of these Scriptures:
Mat 26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Mar 14:56 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.

They behave as the pharasees and think it's ok!

They really should heed God's law about lying.

I guess they think it's ok since they've put themselves in the place of judgment concerning who's saved and who's not. Funny, I thought only God could do that?

stage_director

04-11-2007, 09:26 AM

QUOTE
And I am happy you brought this up, Arron, because this is where the ignorant critics of
Pastor Murray came up with their accusations, which continue to this day, about how he thinks he is "a prophet" and makes predictions that do not come true, and cite some "failed" 1981 prediction that they can never document where it came from.
END QUOTE

That's not true, that tape does exist. A friend of mine has it, I heard part of it a long time ago ... plus I've seen the transcript of it posted online with a bunch of others ... and by a devoted Shepherd's Chapel student. He was talking about some figure that he thought was Ezekiel (if I remember it correctly, might have said an angel) was standing up on a roof and talking or motioning to him. I don't remember which tape it is, but I can easily find out. He did set a date.

I'd be surprised if that tape isn't online somewhere.

godchild

04-11-2007, 05:14 PM

s_d, They have admitted he set a date.

Are they here to witness for Christ? Looks like they are here to defend am/sc. smearna comes right out and says so. He proclaims it on his pathetically immature website that begins with these words (boldly) "stomp pastor murray critics". Now that is a unique way to lead others to Christ, don't you think? Will it work? Hasn't yet, its only evidence of his propensity for adopting am's rude behaviors. Just as scers at the fig tree's favorite "quote" from am is "let's kick butt". Very Christian attitudes......http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/angry.gif (I don't think so).

ezekiel_37

04-11-2007, 06:48 PM

actually, it's " let's kick some dragon"

or once in a while "let's kick some tail" (dragon, that is)

stick to the facts mam.

S_D, I have been hearing about "the so called tape" or almost 3 years now, and no one has produced it. Not once. Accusations made and no proof offered.

In His service
c

stage_director

04-11-2007, 08:18 PM

The tape was called "The Seed of the Serpent" and it was made in 1979.

godchild

04-11-2007, 08:25 PM

The same argument came from scers about am's doctorate. When it was produced here, they still deny it. What's the point? Same for his "false prophecy".

Once again, I say to them, ask your own teacher. None of them will. Why is that? Fear? Will he answer? I strongly doubt it.

They'll also say am has changed his views since then. But they don't show anything different in his teachings. They say "repentance" is good for us, but unnecessary for am.

smyrna

04-11-2007, 08:40 PM

"The tape was called "The Seed of the Serpent" and it was made in 1979."

The problem with that claim, is that after many years of hearing that claim,no one has ever been able to obtain such a tape. Furthermore, the so-called 1981 "prophecy" was not that at all, only Pastor Murray's opinion.

As far as Murray's doctorate is concerned,my opinion is that I could care less what academic institution he went to or didn't go to, because anyone who has seen him teach knows he is incredibly shapr.

To sit at his desk in the studio,and I've seen it and I really don't care if anyone believe sit or not, and cite verse after verse from his memory, and also Strong's numbers over and over, all from memory, is nothing short of incredible. NO institution can teach someone to do that.

And for the detractors,(especially people like Godchild) it wouldn't really matter if Murray went to Harvard Divinity School, or Cambridge, or whatever.

Because they STILL would be whining, crying, and criticizing, and the proof of that is right here in these threads.

To even think someone cannot be knowledgeable unless they have some degree is very shallow minded.

Did the Early Church Fathers have degrees in theology? Augustine, Jerome, Origen, etc?

In modern times, you think that many of the pioneers of business had doctorates? Some of them were even High School dropouts!

I worked on the Chicago Board of Trade for years.

Some of the most successful traders never went to college. You cannot make money in the stock market without a high level of education about the markets, and most of that education is gained by being on the trading floor, not in some school.

abiyah

04-11-2007, 09:03 PM

godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " abi will say this is "tough love", but then, abi is another two-sided phenomena, wanting to be another mother theresa but coming across as just another 'wannabee'. She really should concentrate on finding whatever gift God gave her. This suggestion really is intended for her good. " END QUOTE:
*********************************************** *

Vivian.... you do so make me laugh. " ) mother theresa... ? LOL ! Wannabee ? Want to be what exactly ? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif LOL ! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif LOL ! Yet in all seriousness Vivian... look at what Christ taught, you have made some serious false accusations against those that gather IN The Name of Jesus Christ The Lord at The Fig Tree Cafe'... shame on you Mam. 

Matthew 7:1
" Judge not, that ye be not judged. "

Matthew 7:2
" For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. "

Matthew 7:3
" And WHY beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, BUT CONSIDEREDT NOT the beam THAT IS IN thine own eye ? "

Matthew 7:4
" Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam IS IN in thine own eye ? "

Matthew 7:5
" THOU HYPOCRITE, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. "
 

Abiyah

smyrna

04-11-2007, 10:26 PM

Godchild wrote:

"abi is another two-sided phenomena,"

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First, Godchild says she will "ignore me from now on"

It didn't last barely 24 hours!

Next, she agrees with "illogical_al_ that satan does not exist outside the pages of the Bible, and that Moses didn't write the Torah.

Two months later, she now says satan exists.

She says she won't go to any Church, several times she has said it. But thanks to me, she has decided to go!

She has yet to comment on who wrote the Torah.

There are other examples, but talk about a "two sided phenomena"!

Now there's the pot calling the kettle black if I ever heard it! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

PS- Great post ABIYAH!

stage_director

04-11-2007, 11:21 PM

I've heard part of the audio so I know it exists, and so do many of your churches' oldtimers, even though they tried to destroy evidence of it. Ten years ago Shepherd's Chapel members didn't even deny there was a tape, but used the excuse "anybody can make a mistake."

He set a date a second time in the early 80s and that tape was titled "Communion Sixes."

Murray does have a Ministerial License to preach the gospel "agreeable to the governing laws and ordinances of the Soldiers of the Cross" signed by Roy Gillaspie, Oliver Kenneth Goff, D.D. and John Alvin Lovel, D.D. in Bellflower, California in 1958.

(Message edited by stage_director on April 11, 2007)

stage_director

04-12-2007, 12:23 AM

My bad ... the correct spelling of the name of the last witness is John Alvin Lovell, D.D.

godchild

04-12-2007, 01:07 AM

quote: the so-called 1981 "prophecy" was not that at all, only Pastor Murray's opinion.

That is going to be the closest admission you're going to get from an scer. The admission that am DID say it. So that's two of these fools. Watchman and now smearna. A false prophet is a man who claims to be chosen by God to minister, makes a claim that something is going to come to pass, and it doesn't. He's a false prophet making false prophesies, plain and simple. You saw the admission here at good ol factnet, the only place where nuts banned from other Christian forums can still get on and spew their sewage.

godchild

04-12-2007, 01:28 AM

Now, 'mother theresa wannabee', are you yelling at me? Where is the luv, hypocrit? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/kiss.gif

"Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to yuou.
Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.

smyrna

04-12-2007, 01:33 AM

It's not our problem if Godchild can't differentiate between a man's opinion or someone who claims it is a prophecy. Notice that no one has mentioned exactly what he said, and I'm not going to give them a clue, though the tape he supposedly said it on has NEVER been produced.

I did here him speak about '81, but I want to hear what the detractors think he said.

In Godchild's mind, where anything is possible except common sense and honesty, a minister can't have an opinion, only prophecies.

But according to her, WE are the fools. Go figure.

stage_director

04-12-2007, 01:45 AM

Even the Organization for Religious Tolerance called him on it when it didn't come to pass the first time.

BTW, I believe I spoke in error before and the tape I actually heard was "Communion Sixes" and not "Seed of the Serpent."

smyrna

04-12-2007, 04:18 AM

Stage_ Director,

Well, you err again. Because the detractors have always alleged that the "failed" prophecy, as THEY call it, was on the Seed of the Serpent tape #461. The problem is, they always say it was on the "1979 version" but no one seems to have a copy.

If you really study the websites of people critical of the Chapel, they all seem to copy from each other, sometimes complete blocks of text!

So all it would take is just one accusation like that, and just like the gossipers they are, it gets passed around from site to site, but no one ever seems to have this alleged 1979 tape.

And if anyone thinks I cannot prove this pattern exists, all they have to do is go to Cultlink.org, and compare the accusations made by Bill Alnor, with the SC Answer To Critics found on the SC website.

After you read Pastor Murray's denials, which
he would not be stupid enough to place on his site unless he really was telling the truth,then go to the other anti-chapel sites and see all the same accusations.

Murray, and us students, make no excuses nor do we deny things he does teach that many may not agree with. But I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about the accusations Murray denies on his Answer to Critics statement on the www.shepherdschapel.com (http://www.shepherdschapel.com) site.

It amazed me that Bill Alnor refused to acknowledge that he was lying. Until I found FacNet, and saw the same pattern with individual
critics.

But all they are doing is going to those sites, and repeating the same lies here.

It's like when you read the "Cultbusters Shepherd's Chapel Thread" here. I show how the CB crew invents and then fails to provide proof, and if you read closely, you will see that in at least one case, they clearly never had any proof in the first place. It was only hearsay.

But we've come to expect such examples of dishonesty, so it's nothing new.

Don't think we have forgotten the post from CB found last week,(The Sky Is Falling thread) that references Franklin, of whom it was said that he advocated: "It's ok to lie to pagans"

CBers have always claimed the SC and the students were not Christians, so "pagans" to them includes us, and as has been shown countless times, they lie to us and about us.

Finally, the Organization For Religious Tolerance is about as intolerant as anyone can get.

stage_director

04-12-2007, 05:18 AM

I'm already aware that many Shepherd's Chapel critics don't exactly get what Murray actually teaches, and doesn't teach. As for Mr. Alnor ... I had a conversation with him once. It's been a while, so I can't quote him verbatim ... but the gist of what he told me was that he originally was only moderately interested in what Murray was teaching, even though he didn't agree with him about some of the teaching he (or his wife?) heard. What alarmed him and made him take a much closer look was the sheer venom of the students who attacked him when he said Murray was wrong about some of the things he taught. To be honest, the biggest condemnation of Shepherd's Chapel begins and ends with it's students. It's impossible for Christians who adhere to a strict standard of Christian conduct to not take note of it's "bigger mouths" ... and most of you who defend the Shepherd's Chapel are really only condemning it.

stage_director

04-12-2007, 05:47 AM

Just like my web site ... it's built upon the words some of your students said to each other and to outsiders. Even amongst yourselves you call each other names like "dung beetles" and "devils" and "liars" and every other vile thing you can think of. So what the hay ... we put them on our stage.

You can take this bit of fact to the bank and cash it ... Shepherd's Chapel will never be free of detractors and people trying to sound the alarm because the students who are most visible to the outside world are the complete opposite of how the bible says Christians should act ... and you'll never win the battle by defending your doctrine, because that's secondary to what Christians find intolerable.

(Message edited by stage_director on April 12, 2007)

smyrna

04-12-2007, 08:42 AM

S_D,

If your post is supposed to be a justification of Bill Alnor's lies about Murray that he deliberately has kept up on his site, you have failed. Alnor has been told, personally by me, that he has erroneous material about Murray on his site, and he still didn't take it off of there.
And he is surprised by the criticism coming at him for it? Give me a break.

As for your second comment, it is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

And my opinion is that what you said about the SC can be true of many, even every denomination. Because ALL Christianity has detractors, and all Churches have members that may not live up to the ideals of the teachings of that Church. It's called being a sinner.

I also find it typical of you, as a detractor and as so many others are guilty of here, of always pointing out what you view as shortcomings in Chapel students, but somehow always manage to avoid the shortcomings of your fellow SC detractors.

I suppose you are going to pretend you never saw the posts where Godchild has referred to Angie as a "bich" and other disturbing attributions.

And of course, let's not forget their philosophy
that it is quite alright to lie to "pagans" (which they include us) I'm sure you will deny reading those posts too.

S_D:"Even amongst yourselves you call each other names like "dung beetles" and "devils" and "liars" and every other vile thing you can think of."

More accusations without any examples.

stage_director

04-12-2007, 11:05 AM

QUOTE
S_D:"Even amongst yourselves you call each other names like "dung beetles" and "devils" and "liars" and every other vile thing you can think of."

More accusations without any examples.
END QUOTE

Ah, but you know I do have examples, I'm pretty sure you've read the threads at The Pig Tree Theatre.

I don't read all the posts. There's too many of them ... and some don't interest me. The ones where you two groups are doing nothing more than going at it interest me the least.

stage_director

04-12-2007, 11:35 AM

From my post at Cultbusters ...

"Was that directed at me? I'm not blind. I see people go beyond giving a testimony of Christ and what's truth to getting caught up in the same kinds of tactics as the people they oppose. And I've got a news flash for you ... it's equally ugly whether it comes from a person perverting the words of God or from a person who knows what the book means. People can be on a well intended mission God never called them for. We're told to take forth the gospel of Christ ... that gospel is one about putting on his image and walking like he walked. If you name call, and belittle and resort to sarcasm or scorn then just how do you represent Christ and what makes you better off than the SCer's?"

So you see, smyrna ... My comments aren't appreciated much at either place. ;-)

(Message edited by stage_director on April 12, 2007)

godchild

04-12-2007, 02:34 PM

I wonder who recently went back to the figtree that has caused the 'good figgers' to pray he leaves? Isn't the Christian way to go to this brother and tell him he needs to change? Isn't this like 'stabbing in the back' or is it acceptable behavior for scers? Just curious. What about you, yahslittleone. You "amened" the prayer request along with others. No one said this was an inappropriate prayer request and should have been done in private, if necessary. I guess what I would be most offended by if I were that poor man is they said he wouldn't go to the prayer thread and see this.

godchild

04-12-2007, 02:44 PM

How does am know who the "elect" are? He repeatedly tells his students "you are the elect". The man has never met the largest percentage of these people. How can he possibly know that, and do they believe him? From what they say on their websites and this forum, they do. Just curious.

One more thing. Do scers believe that this world is partially full of angels who took on bodily form (the scers and other bi's and ci's), and the rest of us are just plain old human beings? Then if we are convinced am/sc teaches truth, we suddenly jump back into heaven, start over as angels, come back to earth in bodily form, and move on, prepared to teach others the am/sc truths during the millenium? How DOES that work? Really curious. Thanks in advance.

saygoodnightgracie

04-12-2007, 03:18 PM

Go get 'em Godchild, eye of the tiger baby, eye of the tiger!

smyrna

04-12-2007, 04:06 PM

Godchild wrote;

"How does am know who the "elect" are? He repeatedly tells his students "you are the elect". The man has never met the largest percentage of these people. How can he possibly know that, and do they believe him? From what they say on their websites and this forum, they do."

I've never heard Pastor Murray say anyone is of the elect without placing any qualifiers on that statement.

And those qualifiers, which Godchild intentionally left out, are given in Scripture, not by Pastor Murray, and he and us know it. Because you detractors are so blind in your rage, I'll put it another way to clarify: Pastor Murray does not make up the qualifiers that Scripture cleary relates in so many places it's impossible to list them all here. Pastor Murray only lets us know where to find them in Scripture, and anyone reading can find them on their own as well.

This would be much easier for the detractors to see, if they would stop believing their own lies.

Only God Himself can actually make the judgment, and if Godchild doesn't think the SC teaches that, it's her problem, not ours. The detractors often create their own problems, and then try to blame it on us.

Yesterday, Godchild went on a triade that was unprecedented, even for her.

Those detractors that did not take her to task for it,have placed the last nails in the coffin of their own credibility.

This is something they do repeatedly, and I'm glad they do it. They completely ignore their own foibles, or those of their fellow SC detractors, and criticize us, for things they have done and are doing, over and over again.

"Go get 'em Godchild, eye of the tiger baby, eye of the tiger!"
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

smyrna

04-12-2007, 04:08 PM

Stage_Director,

Am I supposed to be impressed by the fact that you are able to P'off everyone you try to communicate with?

smyrna

04-12-2007, 04:13 PM

I cannot respond to Godchild's post #4711 (4711, hey, it's getting closer to that big day, 5000!)because I have no idea what she is talking about.

What I can be sure of, is that it is some convoluted mush that has nothing to do with this thread, which happens to include the proof she did not know what the word Martyr meant, and she even tried some ridiculous spin to try and get out of it.

david_munson

04-12-2007, 04:57 PM

Stage_director,
I actually appreciate what you say because you do it without respect of persons or malice.

It's called speaking the "Truth" in Love.

(for those unaware)

}

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:07 PM

quote: I cannot respond to Godchild's post #4711 (4711, hey, it's getting closer to that big day, 5000!)because I have no idea what she is talking about.

What I can be sure of, is that it is some convoluted mush that has nothing to do with this thread...
--------------------
Here's a lesson for smearna, from his brother who credits am with this:

skooter942000
Junior Sickleman
(1/18/07 12:32 pm)

Quote:
--------------------------------
..."Will the ELECT", - (be persuasive)?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"FATHER" - ([b]through HIS ELECT), will be persuasive.
Even many of the gainsayers will, (Finally get it).

- You knew , - (i meant this;)
- (i'm sure all here understand this)

When it comes to JUDGMENT,
- (i stand back). - (And let CHRIST do the Saving)

i am not one to point fingers and say:
... (You are Saved).
but ....(You are not)
.......You can go through the MILL
......But you can't.

Pastor explains this far better than i can.

"FATHER" desires all of HIS Children to be saved.
That's why we have this age to begin with.

- (We know of the Exceptions).

- (The LOST) = satan/fallen angels

- They had their chances. (And were found WANTING).
- They are Already JUDGED to perish.

Those Predestined , (already have the GIFT of Eternal Life).

(The Sins will be counted up, that have not been
expunged from the BOOK).

Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner
from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and
shall hide a multitude of sins.

Doulos Don
-------------------
I deleted all the empty wasted space for easier reading.--gc
to be cont.

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote: Father, through his elect, will be persuasive.

This fool is saying God needs the figgers for His will to be done. God created man for His good pleasure, not because without them He is impotent. Learn who God is!!!!!

stage_director

04-12-2007, 07:30 PM

QUOTE
I actually appreciate what you say because you do it without respect of persons or malice
END QUOTE

Thank you, David. I can appreciate your posts, too, because you try to be kind to people. :-)

terluvire

04-12-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:
This fool is saying God needs the figgers for His will to be done.

godchild, show me where Skooter said this. Thank you. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:36 PM

A lesson from theseason about the ELECT, according to r.c., a student of am and now the bible teacher for the season.org:

Because these preachers were to teach the truths of God's Word, and they did not, the people were allowed to fall into the iniquity of worshipping Satan in the role of the Antichrist. Because these Millennium priests were saved out of the Antichrist's system, they are not allowed to approach the Messiah. They are saved, however they will pay for their crimes of bowing to Satan in the flesh age.

Ezekiel 44:13 "And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of the "Priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed."
-to be cont.

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:41 PM

cont.
Jesus is telling them, yes your saved, but get out of my sight. Your job is teaching sinners, so do your job. You peddled your rapture doctrine, and played games with the enemy; well now you can spend the next thousand years correction your ways. Just don't come near me, and my holy things.

They may be saved, and their flocks will be taught, but there will be a thousand years that they will not be able to even look upon our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 44:14 "But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein."

To put it in military terms, They are going to be on work detail for a thousand years. They will do all the dirty work for having allowed their flocks to follow the rapture theory into Satan's camp. Friend, does the rapture theory still sound good to you.

God will judge the preachers first, as we saw in Ezekiel 34:1-16, and their dignified lives of this age will turn them to the work detail of the next age. It's time to stop playing games, humble yourself and get into God's holy Word. We are talking about the 144,000 who let the "Kenites" do their thinking for them, and they will learn a lesson whereby they will never get sloppy again.
-to be cont.

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:43 PM

cont.

Ezekiel 44:15 "But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of My sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister unto Me, and they shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God:"

These priests are the ministers that were not deceived for one moment by Satan the Antichrist, and it is they that shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the "fat and the blood" offering, however there is no flesh in the Millennium, so this is the gifts and sacrifices of this millennium time. God's "elect" are the "Zadok", in Hebrew means "the just". They will serve God, and be in His presence.

If you think when the Millennium comes you can run up to Jesus and be buddy-buddy, it is just not so. There will be so few that will be in this final generation that will be in the first resurrection, and only those will be allowed to personally serve our Lord. The base of the deception that will take place will come from false doctrines that have become part of the Church. If you can't accept it now, then accept it after it happens.

Ezekiel 44:16 "They shall enter into My sanctuary, and they shall come near to My table, to minister unto Me, and they shall keep My charge."

These Zadok, or Elect are still watchman that will watch over His command. It is only the Zadok that our Lord Jesus Christ will allow to come near Him at this time of the Millennium age. They will be the personal representatives, and the ones doing the work and judging over all the people, for our Lord. They will be the only ones that Jesus Christ gives unconditional controls, for they have been tried by the Antichrist in this earth age, and found to be true and stead fast. There not be many in this position, only a few. Most of those living today that call themselves Christians, simply do not have the time to prepare themselves for the battle of deception that is coming upon the earth. It is easier to follow false doctrine, for false doctrine is designed to appeal to their senses, and their reason [not common sense].
-to be cont.

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:45 PM

cont.
Ezekiel 44:17 "And it shall come to pass, that when they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within."

What is this linen? The "linen" are the "righteous garments" that you will have in the Millennium age, and on into eternity. That garment is made up of your righteous acts according to Revelation 19:8, your righteous works go to make up the material for your heavenly garments, so that you will not appear to be naked. The elect will not put any man spun garments [wool] next to them. These elect are treated differently then the 144,000 priests, for they will be in the very presence of the Lord, in the inner court.

There is a deeper meaning to the term "no wool shall come upon them". The Christians of this earth age are referred to as Christ's sheep, and Jesus said in John 10:27-28; "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." All reference to Christ and His true followers, are given in terms of the Shepherd and His sheep.

Today in most church denominations, the person that calls himself a shepherd of Christ's flock [minister], is nothing more then a "hireling". He is in it for the money, or what ever drives him to that occupation, and he cares little for each individual sheep that God has entrusted to him. Why do I say this? Because he just doesn't take the time to search out the Scriptures for the truth, to warn his flock. Most of these religious systems are out to flees every last strand of wool off of the Christ's sheep, to rip them off, and then when these good time preachers see the wolves coming with their false doctrines, they pack up and leave. God is telling Ezekiel that your righteous acts will be your own. It will not be something that you have taken from others. It will be the righteous acts of your own doing.
-to be cont.

skooter942000

04-12-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:
This fool is saying God needs the figgers for His will to be done.



- Did i say this?

Hmmmmmmm

GC get a new career

(You one you have will not pay out in the END).
- (At least not the way you want)

GC keeps trying to accuse me.

Like the ever ready bunny

She keeps going
& going
& going
& going
& going
& going
...............)

- and failing
& failing
& failing
& failing
& failing
...............)

GC (VIVIAN)

Don't twist my words
- (CHRIST is Watching)

- Did CHRIST falsely accuse others?
- Would a follower of HIS do such things?

- Time to Discern


GOD does not NEED our HELP,
but i humbly offer it, - none the less.

godchild

04-12-2007, 07:53 PM

cont.
Ezekiel 44:18 "They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat."

No cloths that will cause one to sweat will be worn by the Elect [Zadok]. Jesus will know His elect here by the special garments he prepared from the elects' own works and efforts, and no other clothing is allowed at Jesus' table. It's like the man at the wedding wearing the wrong garment.

Ezekiel 44:19 "And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court, even to the People, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the People with their garments."

The holy garments are only worn in the presence of Jesus Christ in the inner court. In the outside world, they will not wear that clothing in front of the commoners to be scoffed at. They will have work clothes because they will work, to govern and teach. Those who have fallen short in this earth age are not worthy to see those cloths at this time. This is why those compartments existed in the Sanctuary, for the Priests of the Zadok. It is to store these holy garments. Not only will the people not see Jesus Christ in the Millennium age, but they won't even see the righteous acts preformed by the Zadok before our Lord.

The teaching in the Millennium will not be for the learning of the God's Word, for all people will know it and understand what is meant clearly. What the teaching is for is to do what they have been taught, and that requires discipline.
------------------
That's not the end of it, but I have other things to do. smearna can claim this is not what am teaches him, but if he does, he is saying the rest of the scers who study at theseason are not the same scer he is. So let any of them say what they like.

They forget when Jesus Christ died on the cross, the temple vail was rent (torn in two). God is no respector of persons. All men/women are equal in the sight of God. Jesus is our last and only High Priest (after the order of Melchezedik) and each and every one of us who believe are indwelled with His Holy Spirit. He has promised NEVER to leave us. am/sc and his students teach heresy.

skooter942000

04-12-2007, 07:58 PM

- GC and her CB followers, teach heresy.

The RAPTURE is but ONE!!!

skooter942000

04-12-2007, 07:58 PM

- GC and her CB followers, teach heresy.

The RAPTURE is but ONE!!!

godchild

04-12-2007, 08:02 PM

If theirs isn't a church teaching superiority over others, what is?

Use other words in scooter's sentence for clarification if you can't comprehend, terlulu.
I know its hard for you to wrap that brain around the context of sentences. Just do your best, dear. (And no, I'm not telling you to change the 'meaning' of his words. Do you get that?)

godchild

04-12-2007, 10:11 PM

saygoodnightgracie, I loved george and gracie. Thanks for the support.

Would someone ask scooter why he is yelling, please!

scers can try and 'cover up' sc teachings all they want. It is just as easy to retype them. Have a nice day. If you can't deal with your beliefs, that is not our problem. It is yours and your teacher's. Do you understand?

It appears scers do not intend to correct themselves or accept they misspeak or are deluded. If you take the words 'through his elect' from scooter's statement, it says: Father will be persuasive. This is acceptable. When one says God will be persuasive through his elect, you are not crediting God, but the elect. This is unacceptable because it suggests God is not almighty; that without His elect His power is only even less than these so-called elect.

A correct way to say this is: God is persuasive without men, but He chooses men for His purposes. All believers are 'elect'. If the elect were necessary, there would have been no need for God to send His Only Begotten Son to die for ALL men. His chosen ones would have done the job without that sacrifice; that perfect evidence of His love for you. If you, as you so claim, are those chosen ones, you failed, and therefore the blame should be placed on you, since you believe it is through you that God will be persuasive. Leave God out of it. Leave Jesus Christ out of it. Leave the Holy Bible out of it. Leave the title 'Christian' out of it, and call yourselves what you are. am sheep!

skooter942000

04-12-2007, 11:01 PM

YAH is EL
EL is YAH

GOD always receives the GLORY and HONOR.

- Nice try , (false accuser)

You even shared this,
(While trying to accuse me yet again).

Can't you read (and discern)?

And you would accuse Sweet Terri of this same very thing.

MOTE / EYE / SEE?

GC

Don't try and tell me how to serve (THE LORD GOD).
- That would be CULT-ISH.

The LORD REBUKE YOU (satan),
and all who do your bidding here (in this group).
- (In JESUS CHRIST'S HOLY NAME)

tick tock
tick tock

P.S. GC (VIVIAN)

- You do not have permission to repost my posts.
- Since you are trying to twist things i share.

abiyah

04-13-2007, 12:01 AM

godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " All believers are 'elect'. " END
*********************************************** **

Elect simply means 'chosen' ; 'chosen by God'.... God's elect are no more special than any other of God's children.. for indeed, and as it is Written.. our God is not a respecter of persons [ Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11 ] God has an election for a reason Ms. Hadden, so do not try to make it out to be anymore than it is. For God knows He can use them for His service, Yet you should know and understand that IT IS The LORD God the Helps them, and IT IS God that gives unto them various gifts for His service, and IT IS God, that leads, guides, and directs them for service unto Him, giving them Wisdom of His Word and understanding thereof, to bring forth His Truth to ALL of God's children. Example... PAUL, who was once named Saul.. is one of God's elect... a 'chosen' vessel he was indeed [Acts 9:15], and there are many more examples such as Paul that can be FOUND In The Word of God. God has an election... no big surprise to one who READS and STUDIES God's Word.

Now.. with regard to your above state quote Vivian... you do err.. have ye not read ?

Matthew 22:14
" For many are called, BUT 'FEW' ARE CHOSEN. "

The word 'chosen' as it appears in the above stated verse is the Greek word eklektos, otherwise known to us in our English KJV Bible as elect, the meaning I have given you. I hope that helps Vivian.

Indeed those that Study God's Word ALONG WITH The Shepherd's Chapel do certainly follow The Good Shepherd, which is Jesus Christ our Lord and Beloved Saviour, The Living Word of God, and we follow no man. But you already know this Vivian, so why lie about it ? Why ? 

Proverbs 12:9
" The lip of truth shall be established for ever; BUT A LYING TONGUE IS BUT FOR A MOMENT. "

Repent Ms. Hadden, for you have spoken falsely in your above post with regard to those that Study God's Word ALONG WITH The Shepherd's Chapel. Enough.

Abiyah

dodge

04-13-2007, 12:05 AM

Abiyah, are you amongst the 144,000 elect, or among the 7,000 very elect?

abiyah

04-13-2007, 12:22 AM

Dodge:
*********************************************** *
QUOTE: " Abiyah, are you amongst the 144,000 elect, or among the 7,000 very elect? " END
*********************************************** *

I DO NOT claim to be one of God's elect... I'm simply a low disciple/student/servant of my Lord & Saviour Christ Jesus... and merely one of God's numerous children. And that is all !

Abiyah " )

terluvire

04-13-2007, 12:37 AM

From godchild's post:
Quote: Father, through his elect, will be persuasive.

This fool is saying God needs the figgers for His will to be done. God created man for His good pleasure, not because without them He is impotent. Learn who God is!!!!!

Skooter did not, in any way, say who the elect are. Those are your words not his. He said:
"FATHER" - (through HIS ELECT), will be persuasive.
Even many of the gainsayers will, (Finally get it).

The Elect do exist,(or do you deny this), just as Paul was one and Peter was one...ect.

What exactly is the elect's job godchild? Do you know?

Let's see:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

So do you think the Elect aren't real? Obviously they will and do exist. Take notice, they are here during the tribulation. They are not raptured away.

This is their purpose:
Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Just as on Pentecost Day. Read up on Joel, It might give you a clue.

Oh course, those above verses can't be talking about you, for you say you are going to be raptured, you are going to be gone.

Have a nice trip godchild. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

BTW, my reading comprehension is just fine. But thank you for caring....

Skooter, you are a dear. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

terluvire

04-13-2007, 12:42 AM

Hi Abiyah!!

Quote:
I DO NOT claim to be one of God's elect... I'm simply a low disciple/student/servant of my Lord & Saviour Christ Jesus... and merely one of God's numerous children. And that is all !

Amen http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

dodge

04-13-2007, 12:59 AM

Are there any SC students here who admit that they believe themselves to be amongst "the elect"? Doesn't that term mean that you stood up against Satan in the first earth age? Isn't the "very elect" those of the white race who can blush in the face?

It seems to me that if you believe that you were among those who stood against Satan in the first earth age, as well as not being deceived by the Antichrist in this flesh age, then you would consider yourself to be of the "elect." Is this not true?

In this respect, if I am not in error, don't Shepherds Chapel students believe that the "elect" are the "Zadok" (the just) who will serve God and be in His presence? Are these not the "watchmen", who will be the only ones who will be allowed to come near Christ at the time of the Millenniam age, as His personal representative, the ones doing the work and judging over all the people, for the Lord?

Of course, if you are of the Zadok, you can't wear wool, or any clothing that will cause you to sweat. You have to wear special garments. Who amongst you are now wearing this the Lord's special clothing?

(Message edited by Dodge on April 12, 2007)

ezekiel_37

04-13-2007, 02:46 AM

Dodge wrote:

Are there any SC students here who admit that they believe themselves to be amongst "the elect"? 

There are many from all denom. and churches who HOPE that they are. Nobody knows.

Doesn't that term mean that you stood up against Satan in the first earth age? 

The definition is chosen.... but it boils down to "why the elect were chosen". So, kinda.

Isn't the "very elect" those of the white race who can blush in the face?

No. The very elect are those (of the election) who know what is going on,(who is who) BEFORE the Tribulation. The "very elect" are to witness for Christ at the end of the Age. The elect shall understand and come out of Babyl at their (the very elects) witness.

It may comprise peoples of that description, but is not 100% only white folk, for as I have previously stated, many different races and peoples mixed in with the Israelites in Biblical history. I imagine that in the time since Rev, that the population would have continued to mix....especially in the age we live in today.
If I need to be edified on this subject, I will welcome the info.

It seems to me that if you believe that you were among those who stood against Satan in the first earth age, as well as not being deceived by the Antichrist in this flesh age, then you would consider yourself to be of the "elect." Is this not true? 

One can Hope. But as stated, the "very elect" are the ones not fooled at all, while the 'elect' become spiritual virgins during the witness of the 'very elect'. There is no possibility of the elect not being elect...so we know that the elect did stand up for God in the first age, therefore they will once again stand up for Him during the Antichrist's reign.

In this respect, if I am not in error, don't Shepherds Chapel students believe that the "elect" are the "Zadok" (the just) who will serve God and be in His presence? Are these not the "watchmen", who will be the only ones who will be allowed to come near Christ at the time of the Millennium age, as His personal representative, the ones doing the work and judging over all the people, for the Lord? 

You understand that fine.

Of course, if you are of the Zadok, you can't wear wool, or any clothing that will cause you to sweat. You have to wear special garments. Who amongst you are now wearing this the Lord's special clothing? 

All of the elect will in the Millennium. I doubt it is what we know of as clothing anyway. It is a symbol of the elect not sweating or laboring as humans have. There is no flesh in that age, so I doubt that it is speaking of wool and linens. After all, what makes up our clothing in the Eternity?

since we are not in that dispensation of time yet, I don't think that anyone has that clothing on.
I think that you jest.

in His service
c

stage_director

04-13-2007, 02:59 AM

Whre do you document a "very" elect from?

dodge

04-13-2007, 03:19 AM

Thank you, Ezekiel37. Incidently, why Ezekiel37? Do you give life to the dry bones of Israel, gathering them from amongst the heathen? I know that it is part of SC doctrine that the "very elect" will bring the "elect" out of confusion by their words. I've heard that compassion is an important characteristic of "God's people."; but I must say that I don't experience much compassion from most of these so-called students of Shepherds Chapel. With all the name-calling and ad hominem rhetoric, petty mud-slinging, and general disrespect that I see coming from those who call themselves SC students, I would say that most of you would not fit this description of "God's people." I know that some, especially Smyrna, use Biblical passages to justify antagonism; but I find it mean-spirited and diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Christ. I've heard it said that if you are on an ego trip and feel pride then this is a sure sign that you are not of the elect. It seems to me, by reading what so-called SC students say, that they consider themselves elect as soon as they hear Pastor Murray and embark on a self-righteous campaign to defend his teachings. This is only my perception, and perhaps I'm wrong.

Do you think it fair to say that Pastor Murray emphasizes races, and that it is important to know your heritage?

godchild

04-13-2007, 03:49 AM

terlulu:
The Elect do exist,(or do you deny this), just as Paul was one and Peter was one...ect.

Didn't you read my post. I said all believers are elect.

 terlulu:
What exactly is the elect's job godchild? Do you know?

The elect's "job"? Trust and obedience is what God asks for. Its not a 'job' terlulu. We 'serve' Him. Jesus came as a servant. Do you think that was his 'job'. Do you know what 'love' means. Agape love. Do you believe Jesus loves us because its part of His 'job requirement'. You are sadly in need of the Holy Spirit's guidance. Tell me this. Do you think the love you show your son is your job?

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Are believers not now going through tribulation? Have none of the billions who have lived and died before us 'not' passed through tribulation. Do you think that is a banner of honor? To God alone I give the honor and the glory! The verse you quoted does not change what I said. It in fact verifies it. Jesus will come and take us, (for our sake), during the tribulation, not after. Don't lump me with people who think there is no tribulation for believers. Go back through my posts if need be. This is a problem scers have; trying to lump the beliefs of all Christians together. You are simply confused about the rapture.

I am once again reminded of mormonism. Think about this. They are taught (and believe) they will be gods (exalted) in their 'eternity'. Yet, when you ask any one of them point blank, "Do you, John or Mary (or whatever their name may be), believe you will be a god," they answer just as you all do about being "elect". "It's either "I don't know", or "I don't think so. I'm just another person like you." WHERE IS YOUR CONVICTION FOR YOUR BELIEFS. CHRISTIANS HAVE CONVICTION AND CONFIDENCE THAT WE WILL LIVE WITH OUR LORD GOD FOREVER BECAUSE HE HAS TOLD US SO AND HE DOES NOT LIE. HE TAKES OUR BURDENS (JOBS) FROM US. HE WANTS TO CARRY YOURS TOO. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO, AND YOU CAN NOT CARRY YOUR OWN BURDENS. THIS IS NOT DYING TO SELF. WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS SELFISHNESS, LIKE SAYING YOU CAN DO A BETTER 'JOB' THAN JESUS CHRIST, WHO DIED A DEATH YOU COULD NEVER MATCH IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

I emphasized the above not out of anger or anything else but because I want you to see; to open your eyes and your hearts. Forget about godchild. I am nothing. Hear His message.

abiyah

04-13-2007, 10:35 PM

Stage Director WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE:"Where do you document a "very" elect from ? " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

From The Word of God ... of course. : )

Matthew 24:24
" For there SHALL arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew GREAT signs and wonders [Revelation 13:13-14]; insomuch that, 'IF' IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the "very" elect. "



(Message edited by ABiyah on April 13, 2007)

godchild

04-13-2007, 11:54 PM

The word "very" here is not used to mean a "greater" or "higher" or "more" elect. The definition here means: also, even, so, then, too. Also used in connection with other articles or small words:-and, also, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, moreover, or, so, that, them.

What this verse is saying is "....they shall deceive "even the" elect.

Do you have your Strong's handy? Look it up. Haven't you ever heard very used in other ways than to mean "very good" or "very nice"? Such as when someone says, "abi thinks very elect means a higher or greater or best elect, and uses this verse for confirmation not only that only certain special believers are the elect, but also that there are special elect who are higher than the elect. Why, the very idea! She is wrong again." Here the word "very" is used for emphasis.

skooter942000

04-14-2007, 12:59 AM

There are THE ELECT (144,000)
THE VERY ELECT (7,000)
- and THE REMNANT

- Find the scriptures on your OWN.

You do have Bibles?
_(right)_

abiyah

04-14-2007, 03:26 AM

godchild WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Haven't you ever heard very used in other ways than to mean "very good" or "very nice"? Such as when someone says, "abi thinks very elect means a higher or greater or best elect, and uses this verse for confirmation not only that only certain special believers are the elect, but also that there are special elect who are higher than the elect. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

Vivian... Mam please, again... I speak to you in kindness, and if I may remind you... you are not hurting me at all with your nonesense... nope, not by any means, yet I will say this... IF you do not repent and turn from your ways... you are only going to hurt yourself Vivian... your above stated quote is just not so... false. You do KNOW that God is not pleased with those that speak falsely Vivian. Enough now, REPENT and turn from your way. And certainly you have spoken falsely with regard to what I "think" that the very elect are ... I never said, nor was it even my understanding that the very elect are a higher or greater elect... That is just not true Ms. Hadden... apparently, you came to that conclusion all on your own and then shared. And it is when you say such things as this that you may perhaps turn people away FROM God's Truth and not to Him. Because you take certain Truths FROM God's Word and you twist hard and take them out of their proper context. Vivian... you do realize how serious that is ? Stop. I feel sorry for you... truly... something is not right, indeed something is very wrong here.

Abiyah

stage_director

04-14-2007, 05:33 AM

Abiyah, that word "very" means something totally different.

Mat 10:30
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Same word. Do some people have hair while others have "very" hair ?

Here's your word "very" used again.

Luk 9:5
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

So ... are their feet covered with "very" dust ?

The Greek word "kai" means "even" or "also" or "and" ... but it never means "more" or "greater."

When we quote the verse in modern English "deceive the very elect" just means "deceive even the elect."

ezekiel_37

04-14-2007, 06:12 PM

S_D,

I actually mostly agree with how you see the "very" part of the very elect.

Personally, I am not convinced that this wording alone allows for a separation between the elect.

I believe that the Strong's makes it clear and explains it as you understand.

That being said, when SCN or it's students speak of the "very" elect, they do not place them above the "rest" of the elect.

Not at all. In fact, the "elect" are not placed above the non-elect. Just a little more informed.

It is our belief that the election is comprised of those who will witness the truth, in the last days of the Trib.

From that witness, the 144k become sealed.

Are these first ones a part of the 144k or are they #ed separately?

I know that the remnant of election will always exist, and my understanding is that the 144k are spiritual virgins after their witness.

So, I actually agree with you on the "very" aspect of very elect.

I imagine that there is much that the opposing sides here agree on.

in His service
c

smyrna

04-15-2007, 01:23 AM

stage_director
Member
Username: stage_director

Post Number: 56
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 69.210.39.134
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 6:21 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard part of the audio so I know it exists, and so do many of your churches' oldtimers, even though they tried to destroy evidence of it. Ten years ago Shepherd's Chapel members didn't even deny there was a tape, but used the excuse "anybody can make a mistake."
-------------------------------------

Ten years ago? Where? Where is YOUR evidence? Were just supposed to take your word for it?

He set a date a second time in the early 80s and that tape was titled "Communion Sixes." (bow could he set a date a "ascond time" when the first time was supposed to have been talked about ten years ago?

Murray does have a Ministerial License to preach the gospel "agreeable to the governing laws and ordinances of the Soldiers of the Cross" signed by Roy Gillaspie, Oliver Kenneth Goff, D.D. and John Alvin Lovel, D.D. in Bellflower, California in 1958.
-----------------------------------------------

These detarctors are so intolarable, it get to the point of being ridiculous.

Even though I feel foolish for even supposing thse people are telling the truth, for the sake of argument let's say S_D is correct in what she says in her post.

So if pastor Murray did make a mistake via his OPINION, then that does not mean he has no knoweldge of the Bible, anyomore than a stock analyst may be wrong about the movement of a stock, yet knows plenty about the market.

These people think Murray is infallible, or at least speak from a position that presupposes that they do.

He isn't, we never said he was, and he certainly doesn't think so.

This is just another indication of them trying do discredit him.

They are ridiculous, and if they held themselves to the same standards as they hold Murray, they would have no other choice but to consider themselves failures, liars, heretics, racists, etc.

I'm not writing this post for them, because it's clear they are too dense to understand it anyway. It's for those who ARE able to understand it.

And they wonder why we think they are clowns!

godchild

04-15-2007, 02:27 AM

Why don't the scers hold US to the same standard as am? That should be the question. After all, he's just a man who reads out loud the throws in his "opinions" every once in awhile, right? Like his saying 81 was the year and what's that one about Alaska, watchman? Just his opinions. So the scers need to stop running around pretending to know some "secret" truths from the Holy Bible. After all, they're just getting this stuff from an ordinary man.

stage_director

04-15-2007, 03:43 AM

You don't believe he has a Ministerial License?

godchild

04-15-2007, 04:38 PM

Is your question directed to me, stage? I will tell you what I have found. I have a photostatic copy of his so-called ministerial license. Whose college or institution of higher learning did Gillespie and Goff (sp?)teach at? "Soldiers of the Cross? Goff was a highly recognized communist neo-nazi. Gillespie even denied teaching am, then am said in his 'answers to critic' that Gillespie was "only" a good friend. So who's lying, and why? The answers to me are obvious. am also said the only group he is a member of is the 'chosin few', a group of elderly marines. How does he explain his students calling him their "pastor" and "shepherd" of the sc? I think if you ask someone what group (especially when answering questions about religion) he belongs to, he would say I belong to Shepherd's Chapel or Soldiers of the Cross. His "members" aren't even listed as members. Go figure! And why is am's church listed under "Soldiers of the Cross" instead of sc in Arkansas government records, which I also have a copy of? What's the deal, folks?

fatherofaking

04-15-2007, 04:54 PM

godchild,

are those records available for the rest of us to look at?

do you have links?

these things would go along way to putting this whole issue to rest.

skooter942000

04-15-2007, 06:07 PM

What does it matter to you GC

Why do you care so much.
Just because you believe a thing,
does not make it so.

You can be :HAD: by anyone who comes by,
and claims the same HATE (for SC), that you have.

Shadow cat and you became friends after ONE POSTING.

- Shows where your heart is at.

- you don't want facts,
- you just look to condemn.

So this is what you shall receive. (on PAY-DAY)

- as you clearly cannot see,
the NOOSE is upon your neck , (not ours).

Did you get this from the Government?
- or from a SC HATER (GROUP).

'i' hope everyone opened their BIBLE TODAY,
- and did some studies.

stage_director

04-15-2007, 06:38 PM

QUOTE
Is your question directed to me, stage? I will tell you what I have found. I have a photostatic copy of his so-called ministerial license.
END QUOTE

Hi there GC ... I was responding to something Smyrna said.

QUOTE
SD: Murray does have a Ministerial License to preach the gospel "agreeable to the governing laws and ordinances of the Soldiers of the Cross" signed by Roy Gillaspie, Oliver Kenneth Goff, D.D. and John Alvin Lovel (it's Lovell), D.D. in Bellflower, California in 1958.
-----------------------------------------------

Smyrna: These detarctors are so intolarable, it get to the point of being ridiculous.

stage_director

04-15-2007, 06:55 PM

QUOTE
So this is what you shall receive. (on PAY-DAY)

- as you clearly cannot see,
the NOOSE is upon your neck , (not ours).
END QUOTE

I know you take exception to Dr. Jones, Franklin ... but I like some of what he has to say (and especially the following), I think the last couple of paragraphs here near perfectly explain what Skooter doesn't understand ...

"Forgiveness in the presence of sin is beyond the law's capability. Only the victim has the authority to forgive the wrong. A biblical judge does not have the authority to cancel any portion of the debt to sin that is owed to the victim. The judge can only determine guilt by witnesses and then impose the precise sentence of the law--no more and no less.

Once the sentence has been imposed, the victim then is empowered to collect the entire debt or to forgive any portion of it as he chooses.

An intercessor is a victim of someone else's sin and thus empowered to forgive as well.

Last week I wrote about the Divine Court, which men may appeal to if justice is not done on the earth. That is a victim's lawful right. He may seek justice, or he may seek the authority over the sinner that comes with being an intercessor. To absorb the wrong and forgive goes against human nature. It is "unnatural" to the Adamic flesh, nor is the old man capable of it.

This fact restricts spiritual authority to those who are in training to be leaders, priests of God and of Christ, overcomers. The way to being a ruler in God's Kingdom is purposely made difficult so that only those who have A HEART OF FORGIVENESS will be given such authority. GOD WILL HAVE NO TYRANTS RULING IN HIS KINGDOM. He seeks those who follow Jesus' example, who think like He thinks, do as He does, and speak as He speaks. He seeks an Amen people."

dodge

04-15-2007, 07:00 PM

"Arnold Murray began his ministry in California being ordained by Oliver Kenneth Goff, Roy E. Gillaspie, and John Alvin Lovell, who were representative of the 'Soldiers of the Cross,' headquartered in Englewood, Colorodo. Shepherd's Chapel is registered as a non-profit under the
'Soldiers of the Cross' name, in Arkansas. Verified at Arkansas Secretary of State Site:

http://www.sosweb.state.ar.us/corps/search_all.php(Select "All Types"; Name: "Soldiers of the Cross"; RA: "Arnold B. Murray"; RA City: "Gravette"; RA State: "Arkansas" and search).

I did the search myself and found:

Corporation Name: Soldiers of the Cross
Fictitious Names: Shepherd's Chapel Church
Registered Agent: Arnold B. Murray
Agent Address: 102 Northeast Eighth St.
Gravette, AR

So, it appears the the Shepherd's Chapel is indeed an organization under the "Soldiers of the Cross" group.

(Message edited by Dodge on April 15, 2007)

dodge

04-15-2007, 07:19 PM

Who is Oliver Kenneth Goff? Well, for one thing, he was a member of the Communist Party who wrote that fluoridation of water supplies was used as a tranquilizer in drinking water in order to drug Americans to keep them docile. He believed that he and his Communist friends were going to dump it into the water supply to either kill of the populace or threaten them with liquidation so that they would surrender in order to get fresh water.

http://christianparty.net/fluoride.htm

Goff was also involved in L.Ron Hubbard's "Brain Washing Manual" of 1955. Goff claimed that he was the one who compiled it, and later was known for anti-Semitism, neo-Nazism, and Identity Churches.

http://www.cesnur.org/2005/brainwash_13.htm

stage_director

04-15-2007, 07:29 PM

Goff also wrote some dissertations on "mind control" ... his "church" later became an organization I believe most of us are familiar with ... The Aryan Nation.

All of these people were peers of Bertrand Comparet and Wesley Swift. Even the archaeologist that Murray so favors, E. Raymond Capt, is the son of one of their contemporaries.

That's only a small part in the story of this particular group of people ... it began in the late 1800s with a common denominator. Enough said ...

stage_director

04-15-2007, 07:33 PM

QUOTE
Goff claimed that he was the one who compiled it
END QUOTE

His son has always said that he helped his father write and edit it.

fatherofaking

04-15-2007, 07:50 PM

very good.

now i think it is clear that arnold murray's association with this group is a little more than just friendship.

you don't keep the name of an orginization that you don't want to be associated with.
there seems to be some indication of deception going on here.

sheperds chapel is a ficticious name for what purpose?

deception would be a high priority if you wanted to continue to stay on tv and teach racist ideas.

it is quite fascinating to see this all come together the way it is.

arguing doctrine with sc folks does not bring out things like this.

these kinds of things must stay hidden in order to legitimize the doctrine.

stage_director

04-15-2007, 08:18 PM

QUOTE
sheperds chapel is a ficticious name for what purpose?
END QUOTE

I think it probably just means DBA, "Doing Business As."

smyrna

04-15-2007, 08:35 PM

If Dodge was a real private eye, he'd be lucky to find a job tracking down truant school children.

I'll give Dodge the same challenge that I gave Franklin, who is such a coward he wouldn't do it.

Go take your evidence of the SC being a racist, anti-semitic Church,(cult?) which is suposedly part of some conspiracy to annihilate blacks and Jews, and find just ONE natinally recognized organization that fights racism and anti-semitism, and provide us verifable evidence that they agree with you.

You people (Dodge "Father Of Faking")and the Cultbusters whackos)are the most ridiculous bunch of idots I've come across that can actually use a keyboard.

SC has been on TV for twenty years, yet not ONE major network, newspaper, or organizations other than moron web site publishers have ever "reported" on the SC's alleged racism and anti-semitism.

You people are quite entertaining. Maybe you should be writing for the National Enquirer.

dodge

04-15-2007, 08:43 PM

Smyrna, you haven't commented on the relationship of Shepherd's Chapel with Soldiers of the Cross, an Aryan Christian Identiy organization. Are you resorting to mud-slinging and name-calling to avoid this?

fatherofaking

04-15-2007, 08:45 PM

sometimes it takes 20yrs for the truth to come out smyrna.

there are many hate groups that function in the world.
they don't get reported unless they break the law.
arnold murray has the right to speak and believe what he wants to speak and believe.
we also have a right to speak against it.

if arnold murray or any of his supporters broke the law in this country i would have little problem reporting this to the proper authorities.

stage_director

04-15-2007, 09:17 PM

QUOTE
SC has been on TV for twenty years, yet not ONE major network, newspaper, or organizations other than moron web site publishers have ever "reported" on the SC's alleged racism and anti-semitism.
END QUOTE

There's a reason the Christian tv networks won't allow Murray to broadcast on them, smyrna.

fatherofaking

04-15-2007, 09:25 PM

people with money and power (christian networks)
have better access to information.

we find out these things after they do.

watchman_2

04-16-2007, 02:55 PM

fof wrote,

there are many hate groups that function in the world.
they don't get reported unless they break the law.

SC is not one of those groups.

However, there is a hate group just like you mention. See Star Date One crowd at 'www.cultbusters.com.au (http://www.cultbusters.com.au)'.

godchild

04-16-2007, 05:33 PM

dodge and stage, Thanks for saving me some time, which is limited these days. fatheroffaking, I hope this answers your questions. Now, it is up to everyone who reads and sees the proof to continue to take it everywhere scers congregate for their prosletyzing; public discussion boards.

smearna keeps throwing out the same argument: why hasn't the government or these anti-rascist groups filed suit against am/sc. As I stated before, am/sc is small potatoes compared to his compatriots. Think about this. The kkk and other neo-nazi groups spout the same garbage am/sc does, only moreso and aren't afraid of public displays. Are they all in jail? Of course not, but they well should be for being traitors to America, and hate because of race. Who are we to tell the FBI etc. how to run their organizations. I think they know what they are doing. The stormfront website is nervous about the FBI watching them (I believe I cut and paste their comments here), and have stated am/sc has invited blacks and other races to his "PUBLIC PHOTO OPS" and to be members; and that he has obviously calmed down the outright rascist comments he used to make for this very reason. Its not about truth for him and those like him. Its about lying to followers who support them financially so they are able to further their evil agendas. You can bet the F.B.I, among others, are watching these groups, no matter how small they seem to be.

godchild

04-16-2007, 05:37 PM

Let watchman and any other person post evidence that cultbusters posts rascist or hate propoganda. Let them comment on the students of am/sc at the fig tree posting photos of Jewish celebs suggesting they are kenites. Let's get real here! Ask scooter, he's at least honest enough to admit it; though I know he now hates me for forcing him to admit it here more than once. I'll keep mentioning that everytime watchman or smearna try their twisted lies without evidence.

dodge

04-16-2007, 06:11 PM

Godchild, perhaps we should refer to these SC/AM advocates in these strings as SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS/SHEPHERD’S CHAPEL CHURCH members from now on, just to remind people of where they come from.

CORPORATION NAME: Soldiers of the Cross
FICTITIOUS NAMES: Shepherd’s Chapel Church
REGISTERED AGENT: Arnold B. Murray

Remember, Murray was ordained by Kenneth Goff, who was part of the Christian Identity, White Power movement.

Source: “Encyclopedia of White Power. A Sourcebook on the Radical Racist Right,” by Jeffrey Kaplan. Altamira Press, 2000, pp. 120-122.

Goff was a close friend of Colonel Gordon “Jack” Mohr, who wrote “Random Thoughts for White Christians,” “Articles on Christian Identity,” “Be Proud to be a White Christian American!!!,” and his rant about the “heathen, occult book known as the Talmud,” in “Who are the Jews.” Goff and Mohr were close for several years and part of the same subculture.

On the hate site, “Jew Watch,” Frank Weltner says that Goff was his friend, and that he had a great deal of admiration for him and his work in showing the evils of Jews, the “enemy of mankind.”

Murray – Goff – Mohr – Weltner – birds of a feather?

What are your thoughts, students of SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS/SHEPHERD’S CHAPEL CHURCH?

abiyah

04-16-2007, 06:37 PM

Stage Director WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " The Greek word "kai" means "even" or "also" or "and" ... but it never means "more" or "greater."

When we quote the verse in modern English "deceive the very elect" just means "deceive even the elect." " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

Stage Director... I thank you for you above comments; yet I'm still clueless where you and Vivian conclude that I think "very" means something other than the actually context in which the word ' very ' was used and Written in. You Stage had 'asked' in one of you above posts where "very elect" is DOCUMENTED in The Word of God... and I just simply quoted it for you, and that was all. And for you and Vivian to both go through the Greek meaning of "very" for me... well... I perceive that on your part that you were being thoughtful and trying to edify a fellow servant, and I do appreciate that Stage, yet I perceive that Vivian had done so just to 'twist' what I was documenting for you intially... and you seemingly fell for her trick, which somewhat surprises me, but oh well. Also... Christ spoke with regard to that same verse, a second witness if you will.

Mark 13:22
" For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, "EVEN" the elect. "

Although, I will say this however, it is wise to QUOTE the ENTIRE Verse in English sister... for it reads "IF IT WERE POSSIBLE", you left that part out in your above stated quote.... and we know and understand that it is not possible for God's elect to be deceived.... which is the reason Christ shortened the time of the tribulation of the instead-of-christ... that being satan as he claims to be God and pretends to be Jesus Christ Returned at the sisth trump, The True Jesus Christ does not Return until The Seventh Trump. 

Romans 11:4
" But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. "

These will not bow a knee to the false christ, that being the-instead-of-christ/the spurious messiah, satan as he claims to be God, and shall deceive most the world into worshipping him, yet it is NOT possible for him to deceive the elect and they will not bow a knee to him.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifAbiyah

smyrna

04-16-2007, 07:08 PM

When I was young, one of my favorite hymns was "Onward Christian Solider"

So to be a soldier of the Cross is quite a compliment, and brings back fond memories of my upbringing!

Of course, we can always refer to the detractors, of "Cowards who deny their Cross"

Because they do so many things that are cowardly, they try like the darndest to not have to bear their own cross.

They won't do anything that may show they are wrong, they hide when they are proven wrong, they hide their own discussion boards so they can hide their lies, and gather like a den of vipers.

They doubt satan exists, they claim Moses didn't write the Torah, they believe Peter was just carrying a butter knife when he cut off the servant's ear, so it is no wonder they could not be Soldiers of the Cross, by joining Jesus in carrying and bearing their own Crosses.

No, they hide. Jesus didn't hide, Paul didn't hide, nor did ther Apsostles, save Peter who wept when he realized he was hiding.

But people like Dodge, who no one really knows why he is even here, he is so goofy, and the detractors, who are too cowardly to be soldiers, come here and spout off their goofy garbage day after day.

dodge

04-16-2007, 07:36 PM

Quotes from Soldiers of the Cross publications: (this is Murray's and Goff's organization)

"The mails, newstands and public schools are now open to every conveivable obscenity that the Jews in the United States find it profitable to publish."

"The Bolshevik capture of Russia was planned, financed and directed by wealthy Jews then living in the U.S., who used their control over the governments of Germany, Great Britain, France, and the U.S. to ensure the Bolsheviks' triumph over the Russians."

"The Jews, through advertising, practice scientifically produced propaganda in the U.S., where the Jews have a manopoly, controlling the newspapers, periodicals, and broadcasting stations."

"Everyone knows that the Jews are, as they themselves frankly boast, an international race of 'peopledom' who never became in fact citizens of the nations in which they find it profitable to dwell. The Jews, whose leaders have told the truth often enough, can scarcely be blamed for taking advantage of the folly of the people whom they despise and exploit."

"...many Americans believe that the devastation of Europe and the slaughter of millions of Europeans was admirable because it pleased Jews."

Is this the Soldiers of the Cross organization that you seem so proud to be associated with, Smyrna?

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Anti_Humans.html

stage_director

04-16-2007, 08:08 PM

There's ties to these people and that church bombing down south that killed those three little black girls years ago. They are all contemporaries of each other.

Do Shepherd's Chapel people even know where Murray got his doctorate ... and who among the "rich and infamous" attended that college? Anything about the professors he learned under? What the alumni are up to now? BTW ... C.A.R.M. and those other groups are mistaken when they claim he doesn't have one. Now ... what kind of college might a man attend that he doesn't want made public?

fatherofaking

04-16-2007, 08:15 PM

the deception does seem to run deep.

who is it that say that eve was "completely" and "wholly" beguiled by?

it is amazing how much is said by the sc students that applies better to themselves than to scripture.

stage_director

04-16-2007, 08:17 PM

Clarification ... "these people" ... I've seen no evidence that indicates Murray had anything to do with bombing churches or killing children, and I wouldn't want to falsely imply that.

terluvire

04-16-2007, 08:25 PM

godchild said:
Didn't you read my post. I said all believers are elect.

This was a reply to my question if she believed the elect are real.

Elect means favorite, chosen.

So gochild. How do you explain your statement? First you say you believe all Christians are the elect. Right? Well then, please explain how they are here during the tribulation and yet you think Christians are going to be raptured away? Don't those 2 things contradict themselves?

And, you would then have to believe that all are saved through election (meaning chosen). That does seem to go against freewill. God is fair. He doesn't create someone to be saved and others not. All have a chance at salvation.

If some are predestined for salvation, then all the rest are predestined for hell according to your theology godchild.

God wishes all would come to repentance, that none would perish. If God wishes all to come to repentance, then why would he only predestine some to salvation? What happens to the rest of mankind? He did not predestine people to hell.

First of all, these chosen people are chosen to do God’s will, meaning a specific job for him, for they were called according to God’s purpose, his will. Second of all, he foreknew them. Yes, he foreknew all of us. If he foreknew us, then he knows which one of us he can trust with a certain job.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

There was an age before this, just as there is an age after this. The elect were chosen in that previous age because of what they did. Your theology makes God out to be unfair.

There is Election and there is freewill choice of salvation; Jesus' sacrifice made for all to recieve through belief upon him and repentance. Please learn the difference.

God desires all to come to repentance, Whosoever will.

I would like to clarify, even the elect need to come to repentance and salvation. Saul (Paul), Peter...ect. needed to come to repentance. None are above repentance and the gift of Salvation.

(Message edited by terluvire on April 16, 2007)

stage_director

04-16-2007, 08:28 PM

QUOTE
it is amazing how much is said by the sc students that applies better to themselves than to scripture.
END QUOTE

A friend who's an ex-Shepherd's Chapel member compares them to the Pharisees ... They stand guard at the gates to the Kingdom. They won't go in all the way ... and they hinder anyone else trying to enter.

fatherofaking

04-16-2007, 08:36 PM

Your theology makes God out to be unfair.

the core teachings of christianity do that on thier own.

it condemns a majority of mankind to an eternity of suffering.

the god of christianity apparently has no power to save his creation from the power of his nemisis satan.

terluvire

04-16-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:
A friend who's an ex-Shepherd's Chapel member compares them to the Pharisees ... They stand guard at the gates to the Kingdom. They won't go in all the way ... and they hinder anyone else trying to enter.

We could say the same about our pet detractors. They behave just as the pharasees by bearing false witness, acting on hearsay, accusing falsely..ect The list goes on and on.

fatherofaking

04-16-2007, 08:39 PM

isn't that odd to you teluvire?

who is right?

is it possible that you are all wrong?

dodge

04-16-2007, 08:41 PM

"Kenneth Goff, one of the founders of the Soldiers of the Cross organization, Shepherd's Chapel's main corporation name, was trained in all aspects of Communist psychological and physical warfare until 1939, when a Christian friend helped him to convert to Christianity. It was then that he realized that Communism was a tool of International Judaism and was being used in a massive conspiracy to control mankind." (sounds like the evil Kenites who are going to control the world).

http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0049.htm

Because of Goff's attempt to have American Jewish leaders be exposed as part of this conspiracy, it got the attention of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai B'rith. They were after Goff until his death.

Goff became involved in the Goldwater presidential campaign, and told his Soldiers of the Cross followers that "the hour of decision was at hand and those who oppose Goldwater were part of a devil-inspiried conspiracy."

http://ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/1965_5_USCivicPolitical.pdf

Kenneth Goff wrote "The Master Plan Behind John Kennedy" in the Georgia Tribune, with the conclusion that if Kennedy was elected, the U.S. would be controlled by the Catholics, the Jews, and the Communists and would become a satellite of the UN.

http://www.ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/Vol_62__1961.pdf

Goff appeared as a guest speaker at the kickoff of Robert DePugh's Patriotic Party on July 4, 1966. DePugh was the founder of the paramilitary Minutemen, a secretive extreme right-wing group that was organized into secret cells of five to fifteen members, stockpiling weapons and trained together to defend the country agains perceived "subversives," (i.e. Communists, left-wing liberals). In 1968 DePugh was arrested for firearms violations and was sentenced to eleven years. This was the end of the Minutemen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen_(anti-Communist_organization)

This is the SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS organization that we're talking about, Smyrna, the one created by Kenneth Goff, the man who ordained Arnold Murray, who was made the head of their SHEPHERD'S CHAPEL CHURCH.

terluvire

04-16-2007, 08:56 PM

fof said:
isn't that odd to you teluvire?

No it's not. I have never ever falsely accused anyone here. I might comment on their behavior and yes..even laugh at them. BUT....I will never accuse anyone without proof. That's our detractors job.

As far as knowing truth, it's up to individual to seek it out. Nothing (outside of Jesus) should prove anything to anyone without them checking it out for themselves. We are all responsible for ourselves and our own choices.

If one diligently seeks the Scriptures with a heart to know God....He will be found.

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

stage_director

04-16-2007, 09:18 PM

That's where Bertrand Comparet came into play, Dodge. He was an attorney in San Diego who defended a lot of big name racists. Him, Swift and Wesley were about as bad as it gets ... Comparet wrote the most stupid and unfounded things. One I can remember is that "negroes" were never allowed to enter Upper Egypt. (Saw that once when some of his writings were being defended on Fig Tree Cafe).

That group's considered somewhat of a blight on the good name of the city of San Diego ... and a piece of history they'd like to forget. They ran rough shod over the community for awhile back in the 40s and 50s.

terluvire

04-17-2007, 04:18 PM

godchild,

I'm still waiting for you to comment on what you said concerning the elect. You said "all" Christians are the elect.

Here is a quote from my post #700 in response to you:
Elect means favorite, chosen.

So gochild. How do you explain your statement? First you say you believe all Christians are the elect. Right? Well then, please explain how they are here during the tribulation and yet you think Christians are going to be raptured away? Don't those 2 things contradict themselves?

And, you would then have to believe that all are saved through election (meaning chosen). That does seem to go against freewill. God is fair. He doesn't create someone to be saved and others not. All have a chance at salvation.

If some are predestined for salvation, then all the rest are predestined for hell according to your theology godchild.

What do you think godchild?

dodge

04-17-2007, 05:42 PM

Terluvire thinks "god" is fair. Have you forgotten that "god" destroyed all life on Earth in a great flood because people failed to worship him, except for an alcoholic Noah and his family. This "god" of yours sent a plague upon the Isrealites in an unjustified rampage that murdered all first-born sons in Egypt, including small children.

Your "god" even caused Pharoah's heart to be hardened, so that he would not let the Israelites go, so he would have an excuse for killing and maiming innocent people. In Exodus 32:27 this insane "god" of yours orders the Levites to murder every person for worshipping another god, resulting in 3000 lives lost.

Your "god" even gave the Philistines hemorrhoids: "...and they had emerods in their secret parts." 1 Samuel 5:9 Ouch, Jehovah is so cruel.

Because King David decided to conduct a census, this "god" you worship killed 70,000 people in a pestilence. 1 Chronicles 21:7-14

Your "god" killed millions, and seems to murder people in almost all of the books and passages in the Old Testament. In comparison, your "satan" seems sane and rational. What did he do other than rebel? Who wouldn't, with such an evil mass murderer?

Or, perhaps this "god" of the Old Testament is not the same "god" as the one you worship. On the other hand, perhaps "god" went through counseling and got a handle on his violent anger. You think?

(Message edited by dodge on April 17, 2007)

terluvire

04-17-2007, 05:57 PM

Dodge,

You aren't here with any serious questions. It seems your main purpose is to stir the pot on both sides. If you were being serious, I would take the time to address your comments, but your past actions have proved you are only an agitator.

Actually, I'm waiting for godchild to respond.

So where are you godchild? Are you avoiding this thread? You've posted on just about all the other active threads, so I'm wondering why not this one.

dodge

04-17-2007, 06:01 PM

Oh, and you're not trying to agitate Godchild?

abiyah

04-17-2007, 06:08 PM

Dodge WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Oh, and you're not trying to agitate Godchild? " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

And you Dodge are not trying to agitate Terluvire ? Do you not have anything better to do but to "try" and agitate Christians... it won't work Dodge... you are only going to hurt yourself in the end. Its ALL up to you and that's the truth.

Abiyah

godchild

04-17-2007, 06:37 PM

dodge, Thanks buddy. Not worth it. It rolls off my back, I've heard it all so long from these pathetic figgers. You probably notice abi's response was to say, in effect, "Two wrongs do make a right." Let them do their worst.

dodge

04-17-2007, 06:48 PM

As followers of the Christian Identity organization that chartered your Shepherd's Chapel, the Soldiers of the Cross, I know that you feel a need to lash out at those who would be critical of your beliefs. You must realize that to propogate the Serpent Seed Doctrine, which is one of the foundations of White Supremicist, Identity and Aryan groups around the world, is to attract such criticism. As long as you believe that the "real" Jews are white and the ancestors of European Anglo Saxons, and that Orthodox Jews who study and live their lives by the Talmud are "fake Jews," "Kenites," then you open yourselves up for such critical scrutiny from Christians who take offense to your views.

You...Abiyah, Smyrna, Watchman and Terluride, are the defenders of your faith, as devout Soldiers of the Cross, who are here in these threads morning, afternoon, evening and night demonizing all those who would be critical of your beliefs by using ad hominem, personal attacks and name-calling to the point of absurdity. Each day you and the others come here and provoke Godchild and prove her wrong, who is just as bad as you are, pathologically obsessed with proving you wrong. Are you enjoying yourselves?

Meanwhile, as SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS/SHEPHERD'S CHAPEL students, you spend your lives defending yourselves, and will do this forever and ever. Is this the way you want to live?

godchild

04-17-2007, 06:52 PM

smyrna

04-17-2007, 06:54 PM

"dodge, Thanks buddy. Not worth it. It rolls off my back,"

Smyrna: That's not the only thing that rolls off her back.

Every time some whacko comes on here, she either does not refute what they say, or she becomes buddies with them.

The list of really strange people that Godchild seems to be attracted to is getting longer. She never refuted anything "Ultimate1" said when he was here.
Neither did she refute all that really far out stuff "2pillars" said. Neither did he have any problem with either Franklin's or Balaam's incredibly foul language. Of course, we now know why. Because she has joined that elite group, calling Angie a "bich."

Do we agitate Godchild? Hey, the posts speak for themselves. But if she is so agitated, she sure must love it. Ater all she tried to ignore me, but it didn't even last a day.
-----------------------------------
"Who cares if am/sc has a church building? I think smyrna is lying about it."- Godchild

"...whose ministry *****is not held in any building****...." -Godchild

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/terluvire/SC/Shepherdschapel.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a184/terluvire/SC/SCinfrontofthechurch.jpg

Funny, in a sick kind of way, huh, Godchild and Rachel? Stick around for more, I know you will!

"Unless we enjoy that sick kind of humor, ***we can ignore him (Smyrna) from now on."***
-Godchild 4/6/07

dodge

04-17-2007, 07:00 PM

Godchild, don't thank me; because I find your obsessive and nasty nature to be as offensive as these Soldiers of the Cross devotees. Franklin is a mirror image of Watchman, who's belief in "tough love" fueled with antagonistic rhetoric is as unChristian as Sheeples belief in a "satanic seed." I don't see much difference between you, Franklin, and these disciples of Christian Identity, these storm troopers for Murray, and all of your ugly, pathetic, aggressive hostility towards one another. And you all call yourselves "Christian." What a joke!

godchild

04-17-2007, 07:18 PM

terlulu, Don't twist my words. Elect: picked out (Christians called elect of God). elect: appointed by God for a certain purpose. elect: chosen in company with (fellow Christians).

What you can't seem to wrap your mind around (again) is God asks the same of everyone: trust and obey. We must believe in Him to trust Him. We must obey Him because He has said we must. If we don't, we can go our own way; which cannot be His way. Noah was chosen because he was a righeous man, he trusted God and obeyed Him. Same for Abraham, David, Paul and all the others. The bible tells us God is no respector of persons. We are supposed to think of others, in fact, above ourselves. sc doctrine does not do that. It makes idle promises to its members by teaching YOU were chosen above others to do a special work for God. God's purposes are more than ONE. Some He chooses to be teachers, some for healing, some for motherhood, some for organizational skills, etc.. The list is numerous, enough for each of us to do our part, even if it is to praise Him all the day long. That's what you don't get. More's the pity. It is every single one of us who makes a whole, not a few. The responsibilities are greater for those chosen for the more difficult tasks. They will be held more accountable. Just like a bank pres, is more accountable for the funds of people who have put their trust in the bank; appointed by the bank for that service. The tellers are just as important, because the pres wouldn't be able to find the time, means or energy to do his job without them. All are just as important for the whole, or ONENESS we will someday be with the Lord. Not over Him ever; He is the Creator. The potter does not ask the clay what shape it wishes to be. God predetermined (in His blueprint) what each of His creation would be the best suited for, as long as we trust Him to know it, and obey.

godchild

04-17-2007, 07:26 PM

Point taken.

terluvire

04-17-2007, 08:13 PM

godchild,

I didn't twist your words. You said the elect are all the Christians.

We see the elect going through the trib, yet you say they will be raptured.

Elect mean favorite, chosen. With your understanding of election, how do you see this verses?:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Do you believe all those saved were predetermined to be saved? If not, how do you see these verses?

oneway

04-17-2007, 09:23 PM

"Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that
we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to
himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in
the beloved.

Do you believe all those saved were predetermined to be saved? If not, how do you see
these verses?"

If you read Ephesians chapter 1 with understanding, then it becomes clear that there was no prior earth age with predetermined souls who were going to be saved in this earth age.

13 *In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 *Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So as you can see, they had to believe. If ones came from a prev earth age, they would already believe, now wouldn't they? And if you use the excuse that those from the prev earth age don't remember anything that happened in it, then how can you claim that the scriptures make mention of this prev earth age, if no one has memory of it? Isn't this similar to reincarnation?
What Eph 1:4-6 is saying is, that God drew out a plan before the foundation of the world that would be for those that would believe.

Is one necessarrily saved thru Christ because salvation was predetermined before the foundation of the world? Only if they believe, not because they were in a previous earth age. We have freewill to choose and to believe. Since God is fair and just, and wants us to love him because we want to love him, then he will leave that choice up to us, not determine it in a previous earth age.

abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:29 PM

QUOTED BY TERLUVIRE:
""Does God predestinate some people to hell?"

The answer is NO, absolutely not! I know this is taught by some pastors and by Bible teachers on the radio, but they are absolutely wrong. We have a fair and loving God. He would not create someone for the sole purpose of sending him or her to hell. God doesn’t say anywhere in his word that he predestines any human being to hell. The only one who God named as being sentenced to perdition is Satan. The fallen angels of Noah’s time are also sentenced to destruction, but Satan is the only one named. “Perdition” in the Greek is “apoleia”, it means- [ruin or loss (phys., spiritual or eternal): -damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, x perish, pernicious ways, waste.] Satan is the only one called “the son of perdition” . Satan is the only one named, who is sentenced to destruction. God has named no one else for whom he chose for destruction.

Read Romans 8:28-:30, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. :29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. :30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” The pastors take these verses to show that God predestines certain people to be saved. So in their minds, if some are predestined for salvation, then all the rest are predestined for hell. This is not the case. First of all, God wants us to use common sense when we are studying his word. God’s word doesn’t contradict itself. God wishes all would come to repentance, that none would perish. If God wishes all to come to repentance, then why would he only predestine some to salvation? What happens to the rest of mankind? He did not predestine people to hell. First of all, these chosen people are chosen to do God’s will, meaning a specific job for him, for they were called according to God’s purpose, his will. Second of all, he foreknew them. Yes, he foreknew all of us. If he foreknew us, then he knows which one of us he can trust with a certain job. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued

abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:30 PM

" Certain ones he foreknew he predestined, called, and justified. This means he chose them before this age; he called them before this age; and he justified them before this age. It was when he foreknew them, (in the first earth age), that they were justified. The word justified means innocent. They were found innocent in the first age. Why were they found innocent? Well, God destroyed that age when Satan caused a rebellion. Satan wanted to be God and he tried to take over. Satan caused a third of God’s children to follow him in his rebellion. So the ones who were found innocent obviously did not join in Satan’s rebellion. Because they were found innocent, God will make sure they come to salvation in this age. They had already earned it when they stood against Satan. All others of freewill also have a choice to receive salvation; but for those who were predestined to do God’s work, because they were justified in the first earth age, God will make sure they come to the truth in this age and that they will know what their purpose is. The word “called” in the Greek is “kletos”, it means- [invited, i.e. appointed, or (spec.) a saint:- called.] God appointed them before they were born; they were and are considered saints before they are ever born because of what they did in the first earth age. These are the Elect of God. These were the patriarchs of the Old Testament, also the prophets of God, the Disciples, those who have passed God’s deeper truth down through time, and those who will stand against the Antichrist. These are people who have shown themselves approved in the first earth age. God knows he can trust them to do their job, which they are called to do in this age.

Go to Ephesians 1:4-:5, Paul speaks of the predestined as being chosen in the first earth age. It reads, “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: :5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” Paul says that they were chosen before the foundation of the world. The word “foundation” is the Greek word “katabole” or the overthrow. This was Satan’s overthrow, the destruction of the first earth age. These people were chosen before Satan’s overthrow, before the foundation of the world. They were chosen in the first earth age. They were predestined to have salvation from the Lord. This is because they have already earned it. Again, this is not to say that all other cannot have salvation. Salvation is open to all who will receive it. Everyone has freewill to either accept or reject God’s saving plan. But for the Elect, God will make sure that they come into salvation. They’ve earned it, God sent them here to do a job, and he will make sure that they do not lose what they have already earned. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued

abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:31 PM

" Also go to Psalm 104. The first 9 verses speak of the world age before and the beginning of this age. It reads, :1 “Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. :2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment:” The light is God’s truth, his word. In Genesis, you see God separated the light from the darkness. This was before he placed the sun and the moon in the heaven. This was not the light from the sun. This was not day and night as we know it. He was separating his truth from Satan’s lies. This took place after Satan’s overthrow. Darkness symbolizes Satan or his lies. In verse 1 here, there was only light mentioned, there is no darkness. God is speaking of the first earth age when it was still perfect. Continue with verse 2, “who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain: :3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind”:, meaning he is able to move in and out of the clouds. :4 “Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:” God is a consuming fire. His fire is his truth. In Eze. 28, It speaks of Satan walking among the fiery stones. Satan was among the altar of God. He knew God’s truth, but because of his pride, he tried to take over. These ministers are ministers of fire, meaning they have God’s deeper truth in them. These ministers were in the first earth age. God is speaking of the first earth age, before the “katabole” in these 4 verses.:5 “Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.” God created the earth to be inhabited forever. :6 “Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. :7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.” This took place because of Satan’s overthrow. This is when the world was void and without form; and water was covering the earth, (Genesis 1:2), God did not create it this way; it became this way. So here God is speaking of the beginning of this age, the second earth age. :8 “They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them. :9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.” This means that he will never again destroy the earth age with water. So, I hope you can see that these people, or ministers of fire where chosen in the first earth age. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued

abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:32 PM

" In 1 Kings 19:18, Elijah is the only prophet left, he says “there’s no one left but me Lord”. But God tells him, :18 “Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal and every mouth which hath not kissed him.” This is mentioned again in Romans 11:3-:4, “Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. :4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.” What God is telling Elijah, is that, he has 7,000 people set aside or reserved for himself. The Elect are the set-aside ones. They did not, and will not bow a knee to Baal. Baal is symbolic of false religions or Idolatry, or to be more exact, the worship of the “Antichrist” or “Satan”. Worshipping the Antichrist is the ultimate act of Idolatry. These 7,000 did not worship Satan before and they will not worship him when he appears as the Antichrist. Now, compared to the population of the earth, 7,000 are not a great number. The elect are not many, but with God’ help, they will stand and defeat the “Antichrist” or “Satan”. The number 7 in the Bible means “spiritual completeness”. God is showing that his plan is complete with the people he has chosen, which are needed to defeat Satan, with God’s help. They do not do it on their own. God works through them.

In Revelation 11, you can read about the two witnesses which are the two main people elected by God. God says, :3 “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. :4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the god of the earth.” Take notice, they are standing before God, meaning they were in heaven when this was written. They are spiritual beings that will be on earth at the time of the Antichrist. They are the anointed ones, for olive oil is what is used for anointing, and God calls them “the two olive trees”. And the two candlesticks are the two churches that Christ was pleased with in Rev. chapter 2 and 3, they are the church of Smyrna and the church of Philadelphia. The two witnesses go before the Elect. They will lead the Elect. :5 “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies.” This fire is God’s truth. God’s truth will devour the lies of the enemy. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifContinued

abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:33 PM

" Skip to Revelation 14, this chapter speaks about the 144,000 that are sealed by God. You can read this also in Rev.7. The 144,000 represent 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus explains who they are in Revelation 14:4, it reads, “These are they which were not defiled with women: for they are virgins.” This means that they were not deceived into worshipping the Antichrist. “Women” symbolizes false religion. Remember the harlot in Rev. 17? The whole world commits adultery with her. She symbolizes the false religion that the whole world will follow. The whole world will worship the Antichrist. Also they were virgins. This means they were virgins in a spiritual sense. We are called the bride of Christ. We are to remain pure until his return. These 144,000 did not commit adultery with the false Christ. They remained faithful to the Lord. They were not deceived by the Antichrist. They did not bow a knee to Baal, (Satan). This does not mean that the rest of the world is going to hell. Many will come out of the deception of Satan. Many will realize that the Antichrist is not the real Christ because of what the Elect will be saying and doing at that time. The one that are deceived for a moment but then wake up and realize who the Antichrist is, are those who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb and have made their robes white; (Rev. 7:14), meaning that though they bowed a knee to Baal for a moment, they will realize whom the Antichrist is and stop worshipping him. They are no longer deceived. There will be a great multitude of people that come out of the deception. So great a number that no can count; (Rev. 7:9).

Think of Jacob and Esau, God hated Esau while he was yet in his mother’s womb. God will not hate an innocent infant that did nothing wrong. So you have to ask yourself, why did God hate Esau? God hated the soul that was in the infant’s body. Who knows what Esau did in the first earth age to cause God to hate him? But Esau still had a chance at salvation in this age. We all have a chance at salvation in this age. We are all born innocent, with no memory of the first earth age. God will judge us for how we live our lives now, not how we behaved in the first earth age. Some of us are predestined to salvation because we earned it in the first earth age; and all the rest have freewill. They have the freedom to make up their mind whom they will follow, either God or Satan. The Elect were sent here to help the rest of God’s children. Jesus tells his disciples that, “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,” (John 15:19). Jesus is telling them that they were chosen out of the world or “kosmos”. The word “world” does not mean the earth as a globe; it is not talking about the soil or the land. The word “world” is “kosmos”. It means an orderly arrangement. Jesus is saying that they were chosen out of that orderly arrangement of the world, that orderly time period. That was not this age, for in Genesis 1:2 it says, the earth became void and without form, meaning the earth became an undistinguishable ruin. So this age started in a state of ruin. The disciples where chosen in that first, orderly, age. They were not chosen in this age. "

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abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:33 PM

" Go to Rev 13:

Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The word "foundation" in the Greek is:

katabole - kat-ab-ol-ay

From G2598; a deposition, that is, founding; figuratively conception: - conceive, foundation.

The word "world" in the Greek is:

kosmos - kos'-mos

Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

This is speaking of the orderly arrangement of first earth age. IT is those who stood against satan in that first earth age, they are the ones who names are written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world [that orderly time period before satan's overthrow]. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifContinued

abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:34 PM

" Genesis 1:2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The word "was" in the Hebrew is:

hayah - haw-yaw'

A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

The words "without form" in the Hebrew is:

tohu - to'-hoo

From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

The word "void" in the Hebrew is:

bohu - bo'-hoo

From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

Gen1:2 is saying the world became worthless and empty, an undistinguishable ruin. And I might add, God did not create it in this state. He says so himself in Isaiah:

Isaiah 45:18

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

This word "vain" is the same word used in Gen1:2. He did NOT create it this way, it became this way.

Jeremiah 4 speaks of the destruction of the first earth age:

Jeremiah 4:22

For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jeremiah 4:23

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Jeremiah 4:24

I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jeremiah 4:25

I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jeremiah 4:26

I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. "

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abiyah

04-17-2007, 10:35 PM

" This is not the flood of Noah's time. There were people aboard the ark, animals aboard the ark, and plant life still alive. The dove brought back an olive branch. God destroyed that first earth age because of satan's rebellion. Read Eze 28. and Rev 12.

Those who stand and stood for God, which were predestined, where chosen from the foundations of the world, out of that orderly arrangement, before the destruction, before satan’s overthrow, his rebellion. They were chosen in the first earth age.

I hope I have shown you that God is fair and that he will not predestine a human being to hell. He will not prejudge their fate, he will not predetermine whether they are going to hell or not. God wishes that all his children would be saved, that none would perish. Does this sound like he would then predestine some to hell? No way! He predestined some according to his purpose, to do his will, but the rest have the freewill to make up their own minds whether they will love or hate the Lord. God has done all of this, his plan of salvation, because he loves us; and all that he wants from us is our love.

The only one who was not allowed to be born of woman, in order for a chance to receive salvation was Satan. He was already sentenced to destruction for his rebellion in the first earth age. No others were named to be sentenced to death, perish except for satan himself.

Then there are the fallen angels. I do believe they had a chance to be born of woman but instead chose to seduce woman. Gen.6

God gives their sentence in Jude:

Jude 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jesus answers Nicodemus stating how one is to see the Kingdom of heaven:

John 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

“again” in the Greek means "from above". Except one be born from above, born of woman, they cannot have a chance at salvation. The fallen angels did not wait to be born. They came here defacto. Because of this, there is no salvation for them. " END QUOTE

dodge

04-17-2007, 11:01 PM

Cairo - Among the winding alleyways of Cairo's medieval old town, nestled between the coffee shops and spice stalls, sits the small souvenier shop of Mr Ali Mahmoud.

It is from within in this forgotten dusty corner of the Arab world, that a strange and fascinating tale is beginning to emerge.

The story began late last summer in the sweltering back room of Mr Mahmoud's shop. He had recently received a fresh consignment of Tutankhamun figurines and needed to move some of his older stock out into the back to make room for his new arrivals.

It was while clearing a space for these new arrivals that Mr Mahmoud discovered an old cedar chest bearing strange inscriptions, which archeologists have now confirmed to be third century coptic.

Upon opening the dusty chest, Mr Mahmoud was disappointed to find, not priceless treasures, but an apparently worthless piece of parchment.

Disappointed with his find Mr Mahmoud took the parchment and placed it on the counter of his shop with the intention of using it as a coaster for the countless cups of strong coffee he consumes during his working day.

It was there some months later that visiting American Professor of theology, Dr Nathan Bendemeyer chanced upon what some are calling "The most important piece of paper ever found."

For it was Professor Bendemeyer who immediately recognised the "coaster" for what it actually was, a missing page from the best selling New testament.

After procuring the priceless artifact from Mr Mahmoud for the price of a cup of strong Arabic coffee, Dr Bendemeyer flew straight back to the United states and rushed the ancient document from the airport to the Harvard University's department of quite old things.

After subjecting the document to batteries of extremely complicated scientific tests and eventually proving beyond doubt the antiquity of the find, Harvard's experts in ancient Coptic things began to slowly translate the Professor's amazing find.

As the text of the page was painstakingly translated by the ten strong team of Coptic scholars, it soon became clear that the page was indeed a missing page from the New testament and appeared to be the very last page of that most holy of tomes.

So far only the first paragraph has been translated into english and reads as follows, "All events and people depicted in this book are (missing word) and any similarity to events or people are purely (missing word). The author of this book claims that he is the sole author and reserves the right..."

Biblical scholars are still arguing as to the meaning of this cryptic passage,with most airing on the side of caution and declaring it a lost parable of Jesus Christ.

There will be much debate within the theological community and beyond, as more of the page's ancient secrets are slowly translated and begin shed a little more light upon the words of the globe's most famous Jewish mystic.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i15225

dodge

04-17-2007, 11:03 PM

Kansas City, KA - In a freak, coincidental phenomena everyone on earth opened their bibles at the exact same time, creating the largest dust storm in the planet's history.

Scientists are baffled by two things: How everyone on earth could decide to open their bibles at the exact same time and how to deal with the aftermath - The Great Dust Storm of 2007.

"Right now," says Brandon Arden, 48, a meteorologist at Yale University, "we need to focus on the aftermath of this thing. Although it is curious that the whole population of the planet decided to read their bibles at the same moment, we now find ourselves in the midst of a disaster."

Arden says that every country on the planet has reported "great clouds of Apocalyptical dust choking citizens and killing local wildlife."

"It just seems strange," continued Arden, "that when people finally decide to let the bible direct their affairs, that is what kills them. This only proves what we've been trying to say all along - belief in a Christian god can kill you!"

Officials are asking people to put their bibles back where they were and the problem will eventually "dissipate."

"Don't read your bibles," said Trisha Yearly, a UN official. "Put them back on the shelves and never touch them again. The dust will settle, the air will clear and everything will go back to how it should be: No use of the word "God" in school, no insulting crosses around the necks of students and coworkers, and no bible reading."

"We can beat this," says Arden. "Let's just hope the whole world doesn't decide to break out their hidden collection of Mamma's Family reruns."

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i14405

watchman_2

04-17-2007, 11:04 PM

dodge,

You wrote,

Franklin is a mirror image of Watchman

OUCH! I have received many insults here from the Biblically illiterate here; but, that one really hurt!

LOL Thanks -- you make my day with that one.

dodge

04-17-2007, 11:05 PM

Berkeley, CA - In an amazing turn of evolutionary events, paleontologist Tim D. White of the University of California - Berkeley, has unburied what many inside the scientific community are calling, "the Australopithecus Bible". The exceptional Ethiopian artifact was recently found alongside several skulls and tooth fragments in the barren area of the Middle Awash valley, in the arid Afar region. Estimated at an age of over 4 million years old, the unique religious relic provides interesting new ideological insights for paleontologist and theologians alike. Both groups in agreement that the unearthing of the finger-nail scrawled fossilized scripture, confirms the belief Intelligent Design had existed since the time of the nomadic pious prehistoric primates.

Scientists have said that finding the remnant of the, now-petrified, tree-bark bible supported the hypothesis that Australopithecus anamensis were, not only a direct ancestor of A. afarensis, which lived 3 million to 3.6 million years ago, but also had a more fundamentalists religious approach. The Australopithecus genus, resembling apes in stature and brain size, but distinct in their ability to walk upright and participate in sacred rituals, are thought to have laid the spiritual cornerstones of our own current genus, Homo.

Banded together in small family units, the African clans competed throughout their short lives against harsh environmental forces, emerging Neanderthal Islamic beliefs in the north and a ferocious variety of large predatory cats that frequently stalked their primitive domain. Surviving on a heavily vegetative diet, and a devout belief that the world was created by a "higher power", these 3-foot high, hairy hominids would go on to help mold the superstitious beliefs of many promising species and their descendants to this very day.

While these newest anamensis fossils were uncovered first at Aramis and then later at a place called Asa Issie, the teeth, jawbones and spiritual text were found at Asa Issie, the most recent of the discoveries occurring in December, 2005. A hotbed for evolutionary studies, the Ethiopian region continues to provide the most detailed chronological chain of the Australopithecus ancestral line. Supported by the National Science Foundation, the fieldwork and analysis of the newly acquired artifacts continues to be conducted in large part by scientists from Ethiopia, Japan, France and Elmer's 2nd Assembly of God Church and Tow, from Topeka, Kansas in America.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i10648

oneway

04-17-2007, 11:17 PM

Since God is all knowing, what is so hard about accepting that fact? It explains exactly how God could foreknow anyone or anything. They didn't have to be present in the past for God to know the future.
Today is Tuesday. Tommorrow is Wednesday, but how do you know tommorrow is truly Wednesday if it's not tommorrow yet? If our finite minds can conceive this very simple fact, wouldn't you think the mind of God would be billions of billions times billions of light years ahead of ours? Why do people insist on limiting God in what he can do and what he knows? God's knowledge and abilities are without limit. God does not have to foreknow someone in a prev earth age to foreknow them.

John 8:58 *Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

Jesus said before Abraham was, I am. When you all say that you were in a prev earth age, you're claiming the same thing Jesus claimed. You're claiming before Abraham was, I am. Jesus was the I am. Not you all.

dodge

04-17-2007, 11:23 PM

Watchman, may the seat of your pants turn into scorpions.

watchman_2

04-17-2007, 11:33 PM

godchild,

You ignorantly wrote,

terlulu, Don't twist my words. Elect: picked out (Christians called elect of God). elect: appointed by God for a certain purpose. elect: chosen in company with (fellow Christians).

Well, if all Christians are the elect and the elect are all predestined to salvation, then how can Christ condemn certain Christians to hell?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Once again, you completely and thoroughly repudiate the Word of God.

Your claim that all Christians are elect is a purposeful repudiation -- not one born of mere ignorance. By so making such claim, it allows you thumb-sucking rapturists to claim salvation here in the first resurrection, when it is clear that Christ has issued a special "WOE" for you.

Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 

So, godchild, give good suck!

stage_director

04-18-2007, 05:03 AM

QUOTE
Dodge: Your "god" killed millions, and seems to murder people in almost all of the books and passages in the Old Testament.
END QUOTE

I think Dodge asked some questions that deserve an answer. What say you Shepherd's Chapel people? Why isn't God the cruel tyrant who's slain millions on a whim that Dodge thinks he is?

stage_director

04-18-2007, 05:22 AM

I don't happen to believe a pre-trib rapture is really what the bible says ... but what makes you think someone who's believed that in error is automatically going to embrace Satan? You act like God's lying in wait to pounce on some good Christian because he learned that in Sunday School ... like it's an unforgivable sin or something. Sure I think it might be difficult if someone finds themselves in a situation they were unprepared for ... but what makes you think they aren't going to call on their Lord?

godchild

04-18-2007, 02:34 PM

quote: Well, if all Christians are the elect and the elect are all predestined to salvation, then how can Christ condemn certain Christians to hell?

No Christian will be condemned to hell. Those who turn away from Him will no longer be Christians. The definition of a Christian is: a disciple (follower) of Christ. If you're following someone/something else, you reject Christ and therefore Christianity. Your free will doesn't disappear once you accept Christ.

Its your choice. Judas made a choice. He was a disciple (a Christian). Once he made that "choice", God didn't hold him back.

david_munson

04-18-2007, 03:27 PM

Watchman once again displays his ignorance of proper context.

That women with child is just that.

You may think it's a man teaching the rapture.
(has even stated so)
He refuses to read the text through to it's proper context by leaving out the whole warning to flee which puts the context in that of perilous physical danger.

Matt.24:14-20.
Proof texting is undependable.

}

lutheratx

04-18-2007, 04:31 PM

I understand why people get a rapture...... You have all these bibles that have been perverted so that it is supposedly easier to read. My advice take it or leave it, but the oldest version in most christian stores is the best bet kjv. Companion even better, if you have a strong's you will be able to stand toe to toe with anybody. Someone actually posted Matt 24 as a rapture proof.
24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understandhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Im just going to post a few vs for times sake, why is Jesus saying to flee Judaea?

2Thess 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2:3 }Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Ok so where is the Temple of God? Well in all honesty christians are, but...... Satan cant touch that temple not a hair on or head so what is left. The site of the old temple Judaea. I have had the rapture conversasion many times and you will find I do my homework.

Christ is saying hey you are not going to change minds in Judaea. Where do we go?

Revelations 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.(The child is Jesus) 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Well now you would have to realize that the woman is no longer just the jew in fact they were given a New Name, Christman. Maybe you can get a rapture out of Wilderness, but I would have you remember that the Hebrews fled Pharoah in the wilderness, a type for fleeing instead of christ. (antichrist)

terluvire

04-18-2007, 05:02 PM

Oneway said:
Since God is all knowing, what is so hard about accepting that fact? It explains exactly how God could foreknow anyone or anything. They didn't have to be present in the past for God to know the future.
Today is Tuesday.

Then answer me this. If God knew who would love him and who wouldn't, why would he create souls foreknowing they wouldn't love him and he would have to send them to hell? Seeing that God is fair, and he gives us freewill, there is no possible way he would do such a thing.

Overall, that is basically what you, along with godchild, are saying.

I even heard a radio pastor once answer a grieving mother's question concerning her infant child which had just died. She asked where her child is now. Do you know that pastor said, all of us are predestined for either heaven or hell, so if it was predetermined that the child were to go to hell, that's where the child is.

That is awful!!! And completely untrue according to God's word!

I heard that pastor wayyyyy before I ever heard of The Shepherd's Chapel and I knew instantly it was a lie what that pastor was saying. It grieved my heart terribly!

It is downright horrible to teach that God has preordained who is going to heaven or not. There is no fairness in it, it is heartless, it takes away freewill and it is completely untrue. Out of ignorance, such crock is taught!

So whether you or godchild realize it or not, you are both perpetrating the same teaching as that above pastor.

stage_director

04-18-2007, 05:09 PM

QUOTE
I even heard a radio pastor once answer a grieving mother's question concerning her infant child which had just died. She asked where her child is now. Do you know that pastor said, all of us are predestined for either heaven or hell, so if it was predetermined that the child were to go to hell, that's where the child is.
END QUOTE

The blind leading the sheep, what ignorance. :-(

terluvire

04-18-2007, 05:11 PM

Oneway and godchild,

All cannot be predetermined (predestined) and at the same time have freewill.

Logic would dictate that if all believers were predestined then the same is true for all those who passed on unbelieving, that they were predestined to go to hell.

Can't either one of you see how illogical that is? How contradictory it is?

smyrna

04-18-2007, 05:29 PM

Stage Director wrote:

QUOTE
Dodge: Your "god" killed millions, and seems to murder people in almost all of the books and passages in the Old Testament.
END QUOTE

"I think Dodge asked some questions that deserve an answer. What say you Shepherd's Chapel people? Why isn't God the cruel tyrant who's slain millions on a whim that Dodge thinks he is?"

First of all, considering the nonsense and completely irreverent posts that insult Christianity, Dodge doesn't deserve any answer to any question, from anybody.

However, for the sake of people such as yourself, who probably thinks you have us cornered:

God doesn't think of death or time the way human beings do. Therefore,when God allows evil to effect human beings, and this includes death, for those who work evil, there is no comfort after death.

Those who have suffered at the hands of evil, even those who do evil to themselves,are subject to being comforted IF they are repentent of their sins.

The comparable short time on earth, even a lifetime of suffering, is nothing compared to eternity in paradise.

So for those who continue to take some childlike view of the world, where they somehow missed the Christian message, then that is their problem.

And Dodge sure has problems, as we have seen.
To think God is a murderer? What a clown. God brings people home to Himself. People who premeditate killing someone do not have any idea where they are sending someone, and it also is not their right to. In cases of war, God is the Judge as to who was right or wrong. Dodge is NOT a judge of anyone's soul, so what he thinks doesn't even matter.

Now this is not to say that Christians who repent of their sins and try as they might to live a Christian life, will NOT have some free ride through life, where everything is easy for them.

However, our faith takes us through tribulation, and lightens our burdens:

http://cherifuller.gospelcom.net/Articles

The above devotion puts what I have said in perspective.

(Message edited by smyrna on April 18, 2007)

abiyah

04-18-2007, 05:47 PM

Stage Director WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " QUOTE
Dodge: Your "god" killed millions, and seems to murder people in almost all of the books and passages in the Old Testament.
END QUOTE

I think Dodge asked some questions that deserve an answer. What say you Shepherd's Chapel people? Why isn't God the cruel tyrant who's slain millions on a whim that Dodge thinks he is? " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

STAGE... first off, I myself prefer that you address me not as "Shepherd's Chapel people". For we that Study God's Word 'ALONG WITH' The Shepherd's Chapel are followers of the Good Shepherd Jesus Christ The Lord, The Living Word of God. So you can simply address me as well as those that do love & serve Jesus Christ The Lord by the user-name in which I/we use here. So perhaps next time you could better say... "Abiyah [= or when you are at the Cafe' you can call me by my name there Ahiah], Terluvire, Angie, Skooter, Watchman, Ezekiel, Symrna.. what are your comments with regard to this, that, or the other ?" You know what I mean ? As opposed to the way that you phrased your questions. And I'm asking nicely.. so please. : ) Also Stage... I'm somewhat surprised that you were unable to spiritually discern Dodge's question in which you quoted, and then have gone and asked some here to give an answer. Now.. you being a Christian sister to us, should know that for any of us to try and bring forth Truth with regard to The LORD... that Dodge would first need to ask a question about our God... right ? Yet, he did not. : )

DODGE.... your very poor choice of words with regard to your question is indeed blasphemous "IF" you were referring to our God, which you were not, as I do see that you utilized a small 'g' in your above stated quote/question.. so then I KNOW you are NOT referring to The Living God. See there ? Now IF you have a sincere question with regard to our God, The Living God Almighty and His Judgments then I suggest you ask it with respect and with a true heart. Got it ? Otherwise... how can any one of us 'try' and give an anwser which may by the good Grace of God build you up in The Truth of His Word; Yet for that to ever happen ... you Dodge, you must first and foremost BELIEVE. For the True Nature of God is NOT, I say NOT what you have deceived yourself to think. Come out of the darkenss. 

Psalms 9:9
" The fear [=reverence] of The LORD IS clean [=cleansing], enduring FOR EVER; The Judgments of The LORD ARE TRUE and RIGHTEOUS ALTOGETHER. "

Psalm 9:10
" More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. "

Psalm 9:11
" Moreover by them is Thy servant warned; and in KEEPING of them there is great reward. "

smyrna

04-18-2007, 06:06 PM

ABYIAH,

That post of yours is incredible!

oneway

04-18-2007, 07:00 PM

terluvire,

you stated: "Then answer me this. If God knew who would love him and who wouldn't, why would he
create souls foreknowing they wouldn't love him and he would have to send them to
hell? Seeing that God is fair, and he gives us freewill, there is no possible way he would
do such a thing."

Just because God has foreknowledge does not indicate that God does not allow freewill. We all have freewill. Open your bible and you will see proof after proof. When we sin, it is of our freewill, it is not of the will of God.
When we choose satan over God, it is because of our freewill, not because of the will of God.
If God is outside of time and not limited to time, then how could he not know all things? Look at the prophesies fullfilled and yet to be fullfilled. This is an example of God's foreknowledge. How do you explain phophesies if God doesn't have foreknowledge?
It's pretty obvious from scriptures that God was already preparing a Messiah, even before man fell.
God does things for a reason. He wants us to come to him fair and square of our freewills.
We have to keep in mind that salvation is a gift. And like any gift, we can hold on to it and cherish it all the days of our lives, or we can even tire of the gift and throw it away. Our salvation is dependant of what we choose to do with this gift.
And as far as what you said about that pastor and what he said, just because God knows all, doesn't mean that God made their choice for them. We all make our own choice regardless of the fact that God knows all. If this weren't so, then Adam and Eve would have never been able to excersize their freewill by choosing to obey God's commandment or to disobey it. They chose to disobey it. This proves freewill. It also proves freewill when they chose to obey God's commandment, before they fell.
Either way, the choice was up to them and the choice is up to us.

stage_director

04-18-2007, 08:02 PM

Abiyah, the intro at Fig Tree Cafe explains it's a forum for Shepherd's Chapel students ... so by your membership there don't you acknowledge you're a student of that organization? Do you say that you're not a member of the Shepherd's Chapel church? You don't pay tithes there? You don't participate in Passover or take Communion with other members? You aren't like-minded with other Shepherd's Chapel members? It's not the church organization you're affiliated to? I don't find anything wrong with addressing the members as "Shepherd's Chapel members" because you and they are, whether your #1 authority is Jesus Christ or not. What I agree with is that I can't make a statement in regards to doctrine, behavior, attitudes that includes every last one of you.

Now ... if you want to correct the bigger error on this board it's affiliating me with Cultbusters. I found that forum just a week or so before this one ... and while I really like some of the members and post there (just like here) their mission's not my mission, I just happen to share some of their concerns about your church. Funny thing is ... I never heard of Cultbusters until I saw it posted on Fig Tree Cafe that they're the owners of our web site the Pig Tree Cafe. :-) Naturally I had to go see who I am.

skooter942000

04-18-2007, 09:49 PM

- Calling GOD a MURDERER ,
(Will not bode well for DODGE).

Not well at all , (When "JUDGMENT DAY" arrives).

GOD made man
man then made (gods/idols)
Then man tried to KILL GOD -(The ONE TRUE GOD)-
...to save himself alive.

- never going to happen. (Never , Never)

- Nothing more to ADD than this.

DODGE know GOD exists.
He just doesn't want anything to do with HIM.

Such anger is easy to see.

Like most atheists

(They know GOD "IS")
That HE owns everything
They just want HIM GONE,
(To steal the Kingdom for themselves).

- Just like satan.

(....and we know how this is going to END)




Pro 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments:
but a prating fool shall fall.

Pro 10:9 He that walketh uprightly walketh surely:
but he that perverteth his ways shall be known.



Don <*))><

stage_director

04-18-2007, 10:47 PM

You believe an atheist who denies God is in more danger of "hellfire" than a believer who knows and yet still acts the opposite of God's commandments? Interesting ...

ezekiel_37

04-18-2007, 10:49 PM

All have an opinion, and that doesn't matter where one studies the Word of God. Many people don't study at all, they just believe what they are told.

Even as far as the SC students go. All have an individual opinion.

Now, if these opinions run contrary to the teacher (in this case Pastor Murray) then that Pastor is not responsible for that wayward students thoughts or actions.

All he can do is try to guide one in the right direction. And in a forum such as the Shepherd's Chapel, and many other large individual churches, and even in the large denominations, where there are Millions of people, it is impossible to manage all on a one on one basis. 

So, these studies that people post from x-students, means nothing at all. They do not represent the Chapel or it's students as a whole.
Neither does the Fig tree cafe. It is a place that was created by an SC student, for SC students to share their thoughts without malice of others who don't see things the same way.

I do visit from time to time, but I am hardly a daily active member. On the off chance that I am there, and I do read something that is contrary to our Pastor's teaching, I will voice that objection, just as "you" would.

The Shepherd's Chapel doesn't endorse that site, or any other but it's own, which offers answers to critics, weekly downloads of hour long programs, statement of Faith, and no crud as you find with most other religious sites.

Free Will and individuality.

If a Catholic murders someone, the whole Catholic church is not responsible.

If a Cultbuster member outright lies, it is not the fault of all who study there. That is, unless it is there that they conspire and learn to lie. Is this the case? It would seem so for the most part, but not all of the members of Cultbusters follow suit. If they ALL did, then they ALL would be guilty.

It is the fault of the individual.

As for the doctrine that we learn from watching the SCN, I believe that it is accurately reflected by the students that come to factnet(to defend those positions/beliefs/doctrine).

Attitudes are human, on both sides.

But I would agree with many here that say, name calling shouldn't be used. I have in the past called many people names, although I try not to. The 'world' in me pops up from time to time, as it does with all of us.

What to do? Repent, apologize and start over.

We should talk doctrine, not men and women.

So, I will not lump Stage_Director in with the rest there, as she/he has said that she/he is not affiliated. In all truth, being a member means you are affiliated, but I think we get the point. You can be affiliated and be outspoken at the same time.

If you (anyone) lie about us and misrepresent what WE say, then you are indeed one of them, no matter how long you have been there.

David, I exclude you from the Lying that I am referring to. You don't agree with us but you don't knowingly lie about our beliefs. At least not since I have been speaking with you.

Misrepresentation is a lie and a sin, bearing false witness against people that love our Father and love Judah and love our Christian brothers and sisters.

Fof disrespects Christianity, and believes something else, while claiming to understand Christ. This is dangerous, new age bs.

Dodge, well he speaks for himself, and has years worth of posts defiling Christians and hating the Lord. They are easy enough to find, either under his current handle or Observer, and probably some others that I know not.

All, on either side should be weary of them, not be in accord with them.

In His service
c

dodge

04-18-2007, 11:03 PM

Yes, Skooter, the God of the Old Testament was a vicious killer. Example: 1 Samuel 6:19 (KJV)- "And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."

How many did God slaughter for looking into the ark? What, 1,170?

What about Numbers 16:32, where this insanely agry God has the earth open up and swallow an entire family - women, children and servants and everything they owned; everything that belonged to Korah -- because he questioned the leadership of Moses? Are these the actions of a sane deity? It seems to me that this Old Testament "god" was borderline psychotic.

Genocide was not beyond this angry fire-breathing deity of the Old Testament. Joshua, acting under God's command, slaughtered Canaanite cities, killing men, women, children, ox, sheep, and donkeys with the "edge of the sword." Joshua 6:21

That wasn't enough though, for this angry deity. A fire came from a cloud where He appeared, and burned to death 250 men because they offered incense. (Numbers 16:35)

In Numbers 16:41, the congretation rebelled against Moses and Aaron because this deity slaughtered so many of them. Because they complained, God strikes them with a plague, killing 14,700. Moses then intervenes, before this psychotically jealous deity kills everyone.

What cruel senseless killing! Is this your God?

smyrna

04-18-2007, 11:17 PM

I'm starting to understand Dodge's contempt for God. The problem is, he understands nothing.

It's he who is psychotic. It is he who is without wisdom.

Just because he can't make sense of God's plan for the ages, he calls it senseless.

In a way it is, because it is HE who is senseless.

Finally, it is Dodge who will, whether he likes it or not, believes it or not,one day meet Our God, and then he can ask all the questions he wants.

But to judge God the way he does, God will have plenty of questions to ask him too.

It should be an interesting meeting. I hope we are there.

In the meantime, he will just continue to waste natural resources and take up real estate, and generally be a pain in the a$$, or at least, so he thinks.

dodge

04-18-2007, 11:40 PM

In Exodus 32, this God you claim to worship told Moses to slaughter every person who was responsible for making and worshipping the golden calf, even if they were close relatives and friends. As an example, three thousand men were murdered. But this wasn't enough for this merciless unloving deity, who next sent pestilence, some sort of infectious disease, that started to kill those who took part in making golden calf. This really upset Moses, and he tried to stop God's wrath. But he could not.

What about Deu 13:6-10? It says that you should kill anyone, even if it's your mother, son, daughter or friend, if they worship another god. Have no pity, they must die!

Murderer? Yes, this Old Testament deity, without mercy or pity, killed hundreds of thousands of people in the most horrible and painful way. On a whim, out of anger or jealousy. He seems to have been a child with great power who had to be pacified all the time, stroked and told He was loved and worshipped so that he wouldn't fly into his psychotic rages, killing everything in sight. Love Him or die horribly!

dodge

04-19-2007, 12:50 AM

Now, back to Arnold Murray and his Christian Identity organization, the Shepherd’s Chapel Church, which was founded by the Soldiers of the Cross. As we all know by now, Arnold Murray’s Ministerial License was signed by, among others, Oliver Kenneth Goff, who Murray himself described as a good friend. On the license it states that it is “agreeable to the governing laws and ordinances of the Soldiers of the Cross.

Of course, Kenneth Goff was a well-known antisemite, whose books are still sold on White Supremicist websites. For example, the Christian Defense League sells what they call “Patriotic Books,” where Goff’s writings are sold. In the section where it says “Doctrines of the New Christian Crusade Church,” their views about race are described:

“We believe the time has come when the lost Israel nation and company of nations is being found and positively identified. Only one race today answers in every detail to the Bible picture of Israel in the latter days, and that is the Adamic European descended race. They possess what Israel was to possess and they are doing what Israel was to do. The identities of this race with Israel are so many and so pronounced that one who re-reads and carefully studies the Bible in the light of this great truth will make discoveries that will cause him to give this subject most serious thought, especially in view of what is happening in literal fulfillment of the Bible prophecy in the world today.”

http://www.cdlreport.com/

Kenneth Goff‘s works are listed in the “Guide to the Margaret Meier Collection of Extreme Right Ephemeral Materials, 1930-1980 in the “Anti-Semitic and Racist Materials section.

http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/spc/xml/m0688.xml

Goff’s works are also listed in the “Guide to the Antisemitic Literature Collection” at:

http://findingaids.cjh.org/?fnm=AntisemLit2&pnm=AJHS

Also, Goff is featured at the “Radical Right Collection” of the Hoover Institution Archives under “Antisemitism.”

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf3p30034h&doc.view=entire_text&brand=d efault

Goff’s “Soldiers of the Cross” published “The Anti-Humans,” and you can even hear him discuss his ideas at:

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Audio/Audio.html

dodge

04-19-2007, 12:53 AM

The fact that Shepherd’s Chapel was founded by Goff’s “Soldiers of the Cross” as a “fictitious name,” one must look at their beliefs carefully. They have said that European Anglo-Saxons are the descendants of the “true Israel.” They preach that Jesus and all his ancestors were “white,” could “blush,” and that the so-called “Jews” who study and live by the Talmud are not “real Jews,” but the result of Kenites, Seeds of Satan, who infiltrated the Jewish priestly caste and created the false knowledge that is contained in this most beloved of Jewish books, the Talmud. They will never tell you that they look upon the members of Orthodox Judaism, especially the Chabad Lubavitch, as Kenites; but they will tell you that the books that they study are from Satan.

Terluvire calls the Talmud "corrupt," and Watchman says "One cannot consider Orthodox Jewish teachings without considering Kenite influence throughout the ages." He says he considered Jews who live their lives by the Talmud are "duped/brainwashed" into their beliefs.

It seems to me that by saying that the Talmud is "Kenite-corrupted Scripture" you denigrate one of the largest branches of Hasidic Judaism, the Chabad-Lubavitch, one of the largest Jewish movements worldwide. How do you think an Orthodox Jew would react to what you say, Watchman?

smyrna

04-19-2007, 02:15 AM

This guy Dodge is just a shtstirrer.

Because just this evening he rants and raves about how God is a murderous, jealous psychopath.

Now he's apparently bothered by other's opinions about religious texts that belong to the Jewish people.

Now it is no secret the Talmud contains very questionable material, in regard to how the Jewish people are to treat Gentiles.

The SC didn't write the Talmud! Neither did anyone alive today!

So he's barking up the wrong tree, and haven't we all had conversations along these lines when Manu was here?

Dodge is just trying to get us to rehash old arguments. I say let him do his own homework if he's so damn intersted in what anyone thinks of the Talmud.

It's all here in thse threads. Dodge should get crackin' and do some research, but he's clarely not about that.

He's just some lonely slob who doesn't have anything better do do.

So he can keep slobbering all over himself here. He'll get nowhere, just like all the others.

If they don't like what we have to say,they can turn the channel! We're here to defend aginst the liars. If we have a problem with the Talmud, we don't go trumpeting it all over the Internet. If we are asked, we'll tell anyone, if they are sincere.

But Dodge is as sincere as a street con artist.
So he'll get nothing from me, and I hope others follow suit.

dodge

04-19-2007, 02:25 AM

Another wonderful example of ad hominem, Smyrna. "He's just some lonely slob who doesn't have anything better do do." You should teach a class in logical fallacy.

You can keep calling me nasty names, it rolls off my back. The fact is that SERPENT SEED equals ANTISEMITISM!!

"Anglo-Israelism and the Serpent Seed:
In a parallel stream of thought, the idea developed in the 19th century that those known as "Jews" either weren't the only people alive today descended from the Hebrews of the Bible, or as some put forth, weren't really of Hebrew origin at all. In 1840 John Wilson published "Lectures on Our Israelitish Origins" which stated that the so-called "ten lost tribes of Israel" taken captive by the Assyrians in the eighth century BC had been assimilated into the people of Europe. From this was derived the idea that the white people of Europe were really Jews, and heir to the Abrahamic promises. This idea was developed over the years by a number of Anti-semitic groups with another twist; namely that those who are ethnically identified as "Jewish" today, are nothing more than a Turkish people known as Khazars, and the true "Jewishness" of the race ended sometime in the 11th century AD.

The epitome of anti-Semitism, however, is to be found in the writings of the contemporary Identity Movement with the "Serpent Seed" or, as they refer to it, the "Two Seedline" teaching. The Two Seedline teaching declares that Eve was seduced by Satan, who impregnated her with Cain. Cain is then said to be the progenitor of the Jewish people, thus making the Jews the literal descendants of Satan. This is an integral and essential teaching in the Aryan Nation movement."

http://www.neirr.org/chrisidentity.htm

smyrna

04-19-2007, 02:36 AM

Dodge thinks he can somehow tie the SC with organizations that are truly racist and anti-semitic.

Because he is so stupid, he doesn't realize that the Serpent's Seed doctrine is no more responsible for racism then hair spray is responsible for the extinction of the Mammoth.

Whoever wrote the ADL's opinion is obviously relating on how that teaching has been abused by truly anti-semitic and racist groups.

The teaching itself does not foster racism or anti-semitism.

And the SC is proof of that. We are all children of God. God created all human beings and declared that creation good.

The teachings of Christ clearly tell us we should love our neighbors as ourselves, and was quoting the Old Testament, calling this the first commandment.

Do Dodge can keep playing his stupid games, and I'll keep calling him names.

He isn't a very good messenger, if he can't keep the facts straight.

He has no clue, nor does he really care what the SC teaches.

All this blithering slob is here for is because he has no where else to go.

Next thing you know, he'll be rampaging through some school shooting everyone. He's that far gone.

After all, this guy calls God a murderer! What a freak. How's that for attacking the messenger?

If I was the owner of the messenger service, this guy would be fired for incompetence.

dodge

04-19-2007, 02:37 AM

How about in tape #412 (Demons) where Murray says, "Their sons don't cast out devils - they love them . . . I'm saying it because its a fact. They love them. It works in their favor - works to their advantage. Why do they steep themselves in pornography? Why do they steep themselves in carnality? Why do you think their own Talmud is the filthiest piece of literature ever written because they're at home with it. They love it. Its their cup of tea. Its Satan's cup of tea." Of course he means the Jews.

smyrna

04-19-2007, 02:37 AM

Dodge thinks he can somehow tie the SC with organizations that are truly racist and snti-semitic.

Because he is so stupid, he doesn't realize that the Serpent's Seed doctrine is no more responsible for racism then hair spray is responsible for the extinction of the Mammoth.

Whoever wrote the ADL's opinion is obviously relating on how that teaching has been abused by truly anti-semitic and racist groups.

The teaching itself does not foster racism or anti-semitism.

And the SC is proof of that. We are all children of God. God created all human beings and declared that creation good.

The teachings of Christ clearly tell us we should love our neighbors as ourselves, and was quoting the Old Testament, calling this the first commandment.

Do Dodge can keep playing his stupid games, and I'll keep calling him names.

He isn't a very good messenger, if he can't keep the facts straight.

He has no clue, nor does he really care what the SC teaches.

All this blithering slob is here for is because he has no where else to go.

Next thing you know, he'll be rampaging through some school shooting everyone. He's that far gone.

After all, this guy calls God a murderer! What a freak. How's that for attacking the messenger?

If I was the owner of the messenger service, this guy would be fired for incompetence.

dodge

04-19-2007, 02:44 AM

dodge

04-19-2007, 03:01 AM

Some who consider themselves Shepherd's Chapel students believe that the Talmud is from Satan, that it is of the Kenites. Since those who study and live by the Talmud are Orthodox Jews, and have developed their basic ideas of belief from it...isn't that saying that the mindset of Orthodox Jews is Satanic?

I know that you and the other SC students look upon the Talmud as perverted and anti-Christian, therefore Satanic/Kenite. Do you believe that Orthodox Jews worship Baal, therefore are Chrildren of Satan (Kenites)? Are the places of worship of Orthodox Jews the "Synagogues of Satan?"

Isn't it true that you believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is real, that it contains instructions to the innermost circle of Kenite Jews? As a student of SC, don't you believe that through the New World Order, the UN, and its Ten Agencies, every nation has had to tear down their borders to make way for Kenite Trade Merchants to sell their goods and achieve even more economic control over the masses?

I got this stuff from the Season's Fig Tree Cafe. The posters claim to be students of Arnold Murray and Shepherd's Chapel. Since these are professed Shepherd's Chapel students who are posting in a forum dedicated to the SC, I must take it for granted that these things are part of their belief system.

Now I will wait for you to use your extremely nasty ad hominem rhetoric on me by attacking my character. Do you have an insult generator that you use on all your detractors?

stage_director

04-19-2007, 03:47 AM

The New Testament clears up the issue by stating there's no Jew or Greek, male or female, slave or free man in Christianity. (Gal 2:8) For those who don't get that ... it also says don't focus on MYTHS and endless genealogies, they invoke more questions rather than godly edification. (1 Tim 1:4)

dodge

04-19-2007, 04:02 AM

Smyrna, do you share plow_deep's fear of the "Noahide Laws"?

lutheratx

04-19-2007, 04:58 AM

Pastor Murray has said, "does this mean we are supposed to hate judah this would be foolish indeed. Just be smarter than the serpent.........." You have denominations coming together to form an alliance preaching that all roads lead to God. The serpent is still trying to deny Christ his right to serve his rightfull spot as Lord and Saviour. So just take away the word kenite, Christains believe that you will have the comforter living inside oneself (holy spirit)when you follow Jesus, now wouldn't there be a spirit of satan also. Well let us see there is the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. In revelations you learn the flip side of this the dragon, antichrist,and what else the false prophet So if we embrace a spirit of Jesus, Is there a group that embrace a spirit of Satan and also do his work. I'll go further and say it is not just those that claim to be Judah. Oh and your futile comment on God being a murder, God is not a God of the dead, if flesh man was killed which is part of life, he did not die. Sir you must realise there is only one death that is forever it is hell better known as the grave. By the way you as a man were you there when God laid the cornerstone. God started an entire earth age to redeem the ones that where overthrown (Rev12,2ndPeter3) so for one, God already knew everyone he had killed. I would kill em to if I gave them a second chance and they pervertedly embrace the first or second influx of the sons of God. So don't put yourself in the place of God. Hey nice try with all the big words and stuff. Bible doctrine always prevails. Hey and full on attacks on God very foolish sir very foolish indeed. It is ok to be confused but, he gives life and rest assured......... Hey but even the locust army is predestined.

P.S. The chosen race was chosen indeed Christ was born through Judah(the king line) and the Levitical priesthood both through Mary. So STOP calling God a raccist sir.

dodge

04-19-2007, 06:45 AM

Hi "lutheratx" -- Are you sure you want to use the term "chosen race?" That would be the white race, if I'm not mistaken; the ancestors of the Anglo Saxon Europeans, right? The British, Celtic, Germanic, Scandinavian caucasians who descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel, Judah and David and spread Christianity throughout the world. Isn't this the teaching of the Soldiers of the Cross/Shepherd's Chapel Church who you defend? Is this your "chosen race?"

DNA evidence shows that the Hebrews who founded the kingdom of Israel and Judah, who became the Jews of Late Antiquity, the descendants of the biblical Patriarch Eber, came from a common Near Eastern population which the term "semitic" has been applied. Jews, Palestinians and Syrians share a genetic link and common ancestors that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago. The study shows a close genetic affinity between Jews and Arabs through the Y chromosomes.

http://foundationstone.com.au/HtmlSupport/WebPage/semiticGenetics.html

Do you think that any of these Semitic people, whose roots were in the Middle East, four thousand years ago, resembled Celtic, Germanic, Scandinavian European caucasians?

stage_director

04-19-2007, 06:48 AM

Wake up, wake up, wake up ... Abiyah and ezekiel_37, neither one of you seem like bad people. How many times have you heard Murray say that Satan will seem like the kindest being in the world? Do the math ...

1 - It's a proven fact Shepherd's Chapel is a ficticious name (dba) for Soldiers of the Cross.

2 - Less than 100 miles away as the crow flies in Harrison, Arkansas the National Director of the KKK, Pastor Thomas Robb, is pastor of a church called the Church of Jesus Christ, Independent.

3 - Soldiers of the Cross Bible Campground is in Harrison.

Source ... publiceye.org a 1997 Klan announcement ...

PATRIOTS DAY PICNIC: Thom Robb, National Director of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Identity pastor, is sponsoring a picnic through his Church of Jesus Christ at the SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE CAMPGROUND near Harrison, Arkansas. This is not a Klan event, Robb says, "therefore all white Christians are invited." The dates are May 23-25. You can RSVP at Church of Jesus Christ, PO Box 354, Bergman, AR 72615. Robb has also announced the 1997 Christian Leadership School to be held at the same place this summer for adults and high school students. For just $120, attendees will learn about the "Christian foundation of America as well as it's white racial foundation." In the same issue of Robb's newsletter, the White Patriot, Robb favorably recommends Robert Bork's book, Slouching Towards Gommorrah, and asks subscribers to "Remember the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in your Will or Trust."

stage_director

04-19-2007, 06:50 AM

SOURCE ... Stormfront.org the largest online White Nationalist web forum, a 2004 Klan picnic announcement ...
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:BfWuNDp4zs0J:www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/patriots-day-picnic-22506.html%3Ft%3D22506+%22patriots+day+picnic%22+h arrison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:BfWuNDp4zs0J:www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/patriots-day-picnic-22506.html%3Ft%3D22506+%22patriots+day+picnic%22+h arrison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us)

The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan will have a Patriots Day Picnic at THE SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE CAMP in Harrison , Arkansas. This will be in May, on the 24th, 25th, and the 26th.

SOURCE ... Midwest Action Report, March 1998

Robb's Knights Announce 1998 National Klan Congress Date

ROBB’S KNIGHTS ANNOUNCES 1998 NATIONAL KLAN CONGRESS DATE: The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan headed by Thom Robb will hold their annual National Klan Congress at the SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS BIBLE CAMP near Harrison, Arkansas over Labor Day weekend - September 4-6. The event will include presentations by Ed Fields, J.B. Stoner, Ralph Forbes, Thom Robb, Rachel Pendergraft, Nathan Robb, and Sandra Pierce. Just prior to the Congress, The Knights will hold a "Christian Leadership School," August 31 – September 4. The Knights also announced the "National Homecoming and White Christian Heritage Culture and Craft Festival" in Pulaski, Tennessee on July 18.

SOURCE ... Empire Knights Kommunity (Events Section) March 2007 at http://www.knights311.org/

The annual Faith and Freedom Conference will be held March 30 -April 1 2007. Listen to great speakers, music, and enjoy the fellowship. It will be at SOTC BIBLE CAMP. just outside of Harrison, Arkansas. It is family friendly.

SOURCE ... Aryan Front Forum (Klan Rallies) http://www.aryan-front.com/viewtopic.php?p=4254&highlight=&sid=e0e912a2d1998f 625ffac06c301b5f5f

lutheratx

04-19-2007, 03:02 PM

Wow that kkk guy seems like a real idiot because wasn't Paul you know the guy that wrote most of the new testament the apostle for the gentiles, Greek word ethnos, and wait didn't we get our word ethnic from this same Greek word. So I reckon God is pretty fond of his beautiful ethnic people and I for one am quite fond of them too. If my friend Mike at school (tech school) heard someone called me racist he would enjoy that. Oh and how about the vision Peter had in Acts where all the scavengers where there and God said eat. Three different times and Peter refused. Come to find out it meant all Gentiles were cleaned never to be called dirty again. So up to Christ arrival the Jews didn't even know that God was the Gentiles God to, why? Because God chose the Jews as the seed line. So all can come to God. Sir if you are of another Ethnic group I apologise if I did not make this clear before. One more thing you Atheist, my God is a murder, cute you know at the death of Jesus, Jesus freed people that were locked away before repentance. These people that were slaughtered have spent what is it 6000 years in paradise. Aw those poor souls. Hopefully you catch my sarcasm. Look I'm pretty well versed in the bible (thanks to the father) So when you think you have proven a point friend I assure you I've got scripture. I do enjoy open debate, but you call God a murder and you pay the price. How bout you apologise to us and for certain apologise to him. I apologised to you.

lutheratx

04-19-2007, 03:16 PM

Oh and another thing you Genius I don't know if you know this but Arkansas is a little backwoods. Thats why the Chapel can get away with out mainstream lunies burning down the church and things of the like. Well wouldn't this also be a good place for a bunch of slacked jaw white locals (idiots) to have there KKK jambory yehaa... Hey maybe my Pastor should give up his love for the land that your sympathiser said she loves so much just because the kkk is coming to town hey how bout you try scripture next time I might actually be silenced for a couple minutes, because you cant just read one chapter you have to read all the ones that pertain to it. You guys truly have no real knowledge I apologise in advance but hey wake up. If you are a Kenite it makes sense, but even you would have a chance at salvation, read the book you lose.

lutheratx

04-19-2007, 03:45 PM

I take it back It hasn't been 6000 years only actually less than 2000. Still quite a while and an eternity to go

watchman_2

04-19-2007, 07:07 PM

dodge,

You wrote,
Murderer? Yes, this Old Testament deity, without mercy or pity, killed hundreds of thousands of people in the most horrible and painful way. On a whim, out of anger or jealousy.

What evidence do you have that these people did not deserve to die?

Before you declare God a murderer, you better have some proof that He took innocent people's lives.

watchman_2

04-19-2007, 07:39 PM

Let's examine Dodge's point of reference. He is an Evolutionist. His god is science. His beliefs are centered in the leftist agenda.

So, a brief check on Dodge's beliefs/religion yields:

1. The Nazis were evolutionists and slaughtered 6 million Jews because they were inferior beings.
2. The liberal utopia of the Soviet Union slaughtered an estimated 20 million in gaining power.
3. Don't know the number of Chinese slaughtered when the utopian communists took over China.

I am sure there are so many more examples.

So, dodge, you are quite the hypocrite in judging God.

skooter942000

04-19-2007, 08:03 PM

FROM: Stage Director

You believe an atheist who denies God is in more danger of "hellfire" than a believer who knows and yet still acts the opposite of God's commandments? Interesting ...
--------------------------------------

- was this pointed at me? (SD)
- ehhhh even rhymes

- i never said, (nor implied this)

- Are you going to stick up for this mans words?

- (R-U)?

Amazing you would address me,
instead of addressing his words - (OF GOD).

- You know (GOD) , The one you supposedly LOVE.(most)

HE CALLED GOD A MURDERER,
- (do you agree with these words)?

- (Y/N) - and this is a direct question.

Those words are YOURS SD,
- You own up to them !!!!

Since you are the ONE that denies certain TRUTHS and FACTS.

Stand with CHRIST, - (FOR CHRIST)
- or sit down.

- Make your CHOICE http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

dodge

04-19-2007, 09:25 PM

Watchman, you don't think your Old Testament God took innocent lives? Look at 2 Kings 2:23-24, where a group of children were making fun of Elisha's baldness. Elisha cursed them in the name of God and two bears came out of the woods, killing forty-two of the children. Did these children deserve to be torn apart by bears because they were laughing at a bald guy?

What about in Exodus 12:29, where God kills all the firstborn in Egypt? Not only was the firstborn of Pharoah killed, but the firstborn of every slave or prisoner in the dungeons. Hell, even the firstborn of all the cattle. How are babies not innocent?

In Leviticus 26:22, God tells His people that if they "walk contrary to Him," then He will send plagues and cause them to eat the flesh of their children. This God even says that He will enjoy the smell of their dead burnt bodies. Doesn't this sound a bit psychotic to you?

In Numbers 31:17, God tells His people to kill every male child and every female who is not a virgin. However, if they capture young women who are virgins, then they can do with them as they like. Did these young women deserve to be taken from their families, raped, and then tossed away if they were not good in bed?

Is this proof enought? I have hundreds of them.

By the way, Watchman, "Nazis were evolutionists?" You gotta be kidding me!

skooter942000

04-19-2007, 09:34 PM

Isa 45:9
¶ Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
[Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it,
...What makest thou?
or thy work, ...He hath no hands?

Isa 45:10 Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father,
...What begettest thou?
or to the woman, ...What hast thou brought forth?



"who is 'man' to question the (CREATOR),
- On anything "HE" does , (or allows)?


Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay,
of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour,
........and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath,
and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering
........the vessels of wrath [fitted to destruction]:

Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches
of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called,
not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?




Wisdom is to accept that (GOD "IS"),
- And that (GOD'S WILL) is Perfect.

Just because 'man' cannot see the whole Picture,
- does not mean that the Picture is not there - to be seen.
(...Or does not have a logical purpose or conclusion)

"ALMIGHTY FATHER" show things to those with FAITH.
("FAITH IN HIM")

- If you have "little" to "no faith" ,
(...What is it that you think you see)?

A Masterpiece takes TIME. (To create)
- So does a WORK that will Endure - (FOREVER).




2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen,
........but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen [are] temporal;
but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.

lutheratx

04-19-2007, 10:22 PM

my God is a murder, cute you know at the death of Jesus, Jesus freed people that were locked away before repentance. These people that were slaughtered have spent what is it 1,973 years in paradise. Aw those poor souls. Hopefully you catch my sarcasm. God is a God of the living no one dies until the lake of fire.

dodge

04-19-2007, 11:13 PM

Yes, luteratx, the Lake of Fire. It promises to be quite a show, come Judgment Day. Bring your popcorn and have a seat. I'm looking forward to seeing the horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth and scorpion's tails. And that earthquake that's going to kill 7,000 people should be fun to watch. Think of it, we can see people being inflicted with bodily sores, seas and rivers turning into blood, everyone being scortched with fire, people consuming their own tongues in pain and horrendous storms that will kill all sinners.

Remember, if you don't return Christ's love and accept Him as your personal savior, you're going to be tortured and have all the flesh burnt off your body every day for all eternity in that Lake of Fire. Think that's funny? You won't be laughing when you see demons using your tesitcles as ping-pong balls! I'll be laughing at you when you're burning in Hell and can't wait to see the look of surprise on your face when Jesus drop-kicks you off the cliff of glory into the Lake of Fire! I feel this way because Jesus lives within my left ventricle, and therefore I'm filled with the Holy Spirit.

God's violent anger is directed toward those who dare to question His perfect love for them. The unsaved will find themselves marooned alone in the Lake of Fire, their only companions being red-finned water demons who will sodomize them from the deep as fire waves crash into their screaming heads and burst their wrinkled bodies into flames.

Praise God!

(Taken from the sermons of Pastor Deacon Fred, pure satire.)

lutheratx

04-20-2007, 04:40 AM

locust devour green vegetation, I'll be completely honest I don't know what the horse symabolises, women are gentle, lions tear away the meat brutitally, The 7000 could be the fallen angels the kenites possibly. Im sure it either has to do with the angels that sinned easily documented Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day...... Or the kenites John 8vs44. I go with my idea the angels. Let me explain the locust army you have these angels that are just as gentle as can be but in all truthfullness there attack is that of a coward. You see God is instructing the green things (you,me) hey these guys are savages, the sores they inflict are to your everlasting sole a cut alot deeper than any man could make. Remember fear no man fear God for he can destroy your soul. Well these angels are the very same that had alot of these people slaughtered by God in the old testament, however alot of these people are in heaven know. The thing is about the old testament is it was the teacher, the school instructor if you will. Dodge we would probally be friends because I have alot of athiest friends. One ol boy and me always talk about his belief that we came from aliens, but still friends. You don't have to apologise to me, just a warning though your absolutly right in not totally trusting me to always check out the man. Im awfully gentle to, but I have been real testy lately, and am human. So these angels or people could be buttering you up so they can find the place to stick the knife. Dont exclude God in your life because he is incapable of iniquity, he has always got your back if you let him. Who can stand against you if God is for you and he is always worthy of our praise.

Luther

lutheratx

04-20-2007, 04:56 AM

Another thing is I told my friend Mike about the chosen race thing how The Gospel came through the Jews and How Christ came through the ruddy seedline. He was cool about it, but I can tell he didn't like God having a color. I just could, you know and we will find in the next earth age that your race is not important. You will not be serving me, so truthfully I will not bring this up again (very often it is still a truth)in my warning people about the rapture lie, the false angels, the antichrist being angelic and not a man, the misconception of the fatal wound, the one world government i.e. religion and the kenite bieng possessed by the false prophet. Then once I get that out there what heaven is like, why we are here, the truth about hell, what happened to the dinosaurs, the truth about these websites saying we came from aliens, I could go on and on if I gave it some thought. I do still defend the Jew bieng chosen to bring the gospel to the ethnos, but will not teach it very often. Why? Trust me friend it does not matter who it comes from as long as they know God loves them.

lutheratx

04-20-2007, 05:06 AM

God child do you now see why I give credit to God and not myself. He is the one that opened my eyes I do believe he guides my key stroke, because I could not type letters of love like this, my works are filthy rags in aspect to his beautiful works. I had fallen and he picked me up. He is worthy of our praise. Christianity is not a religion it is a reality. Don't play church persue him persue him persue him he is worthy of our praise.
Luther

abiyah

04-20-2007, 06:19 PM

Lutheratx WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Another thing is I told my friend Mike about the chosen race thing how The Gospel came through the Jews and How Christ came through the ruddy seedline. "
AND
QUOTE: " I do still defend the Jew bieng chosen to bring the gospel to the ethnos, but will not teach it very often. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **

Good Day Lutheratx:

And Peace from Jesus Christ our Lord & Saviour be with you. Brother, some of your above stated comments within your posts I find somewhat perplexing and certainly I mean no offence. I see that you desire to share Truth, and I enjoy HEARING The Truth of God's Word. And with regard to your above stated comments which I have highlighted... I simply wanted to add to your comments that our Heavenly Father chose ALL The Children of ISRAEL to be His people, and not just The Tribe of Judah, for Judah is simlply one of the 12 Tribes of Israel. Israel being chosen by God to be an example to ALL nations of the earth, a Holy People unto The LORD God. God chose Israel as a People unto Him to serve Him, so that the other nations of the earth would KNOW that The LORD IS God, He wants the nations to know that He is their God so they can follow His Way. He chose Israel not for their own sake, but rather for His Holy Name's Sake. And indeed it was through THIS people that The Messiah, God's Saviour to ALL peoples of the earth would come through. So when you say that God chose the 'Jews' to bring forth The Messiah and The Gospel that is merely a fragment of Truth, for Christ our Lord was both of The Tribe of Judah and of The Tribe of Levi. But lets look at a few Verses which show us how that God chose ALL The 12 Tribes of Israel as His People, and not just only The Tribe/House of Judah. 

I Chronicles 16:13
" O ye seed of ISRAEL His servant, YE CHILDREN OF JACOB [= this includes ALL 12 Tribes ], His chosen ones. "

I Chronicles 16:14
" He is The LORD our God; His Judgments are in ALL the Earth. "

I Chronicles 16:15
" Be ye mindful always of His Covenant; The Word which He commanded to a thousand generations; "

I Chronicles 16:16
" Even of the Covenant which He made with ABRAHAM, and of His Oath unto Isaac; "

I Chronicles 16:17
" And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a Law, and to Israel [=ALL 12 Tribes ] for an everlasting Covenant, "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Let us Skip down to the 24th Verse, to see another purpose that The Children of Israel would do in serving God our Heavenly Father. 

I Chronicles 16:24
" Declare His glory among the heathen [=meaning nations]; His marvellous Works among ALL NATIONS. "

abiyah

04-20-2007, 06:20 PM

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif Continued from the above post.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif The LORD God is The God of ALL NATIONS, not only Israel, yet indeed God did chose THIS People through Abraham to serve Him and fulfill His Will. And indeed this people brought forth The Anointed One of God, The Lamb of God, Jesus The Christ WHO IS KING of kings and LORD of lords... He is The King of ALL NATIONS. For indeed God is The God of ALL peoples, all were created in His image, and He loves ALL His Children, and because He so loves ALL His children, He Sent A Saviour for ALL people of the earth, His Only Begotten Son, Jesus The Christ, Immanuel=God WITH us.

Genesis 26:4
" And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of Heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed SHALL ALL THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH be blessed; "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifAll nations of the earth would be blessed through Abraham's seed because Christ would come through this seedline, The Children of Israel. For Christ opened Salvation to ALL peoples, ALL nations of the earth. And God Blesses those nations which do follow The Messiah, Jesus The Christ, God's Saviour.

Galations 3:8
" And The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen [= meaning nations ] through faith, 'PREACHED BEFORE' The Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee SHALL ALL NATIONS be blessed. "

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gifBlessed because of Jesus Christ, Salvation being opened to whom-so-ever WILL believe in Him. John 3:16.

Galatians 3:26
" For ye are ALL the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. "

Galatians 3:27
" For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. "

Galatians 3:28
" There is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, there is NEITHER bond NOR free, there is NEITHER male NOR female; FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS.

Galatians 3:29
" And "IF" ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. "

abiyah

04-20-2007, 07:35 PM

Lutheratx WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " " Another thing is I told my friend Mike about the chosen race thing how The Gospel came through the Jews and How Christ came through the ruddy seedline. " "
*********************************************** **

Lutheratx... one last thing I wanted to share, an after thought if you will, and I do so simply for your edification brother, as my heart is indeed sincere. When you use the term "chosen race"... you may want to be careful, and I say this simply because some may take what you speak out of context. Because the Truth IS The LORD God chose a "PEOPLE". For we know and understand that NOT all the Adamic race are of The Children of Israel. So therefore, it think it is wise to say and even better said that God chose a "People" to serve Him and assist in bringing forth His overall Plan of Salvation for ALL peoples, ALL nations of the earth, because He loves them and desires to be loved of them, and wants them ALL to know that He is their God. " ) 

Psalm 117:1
" O praise The LORD, ALL YE NATIONS; praise Him, ALL YE PEOPLE. "

Psalm 117:2
" For His merciful kindness IS GREAT TOWARD us; and The Truth of The LORD endureth FOR EVER. Praise ye The LORD. "

Agape,

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gifAbiyah

lutheratx

04-20-2007, 07:43 PM

your right I excluded the northern tribes in my last post, I did however make a point that no matter who brought the school master forward, who brought the gospel forward, get well versed in the word of God. If the word chosen is hard for somebody, just realise as you stated in your post (which I do appreciate) that the bible is concerning one family and peoples interaction with that family. Which is neccessary I just won't include my belief that I may be part of that family.(through the lost northern tribes) Im may not be of full blood I may even have kenite dna (as you know they are also ruddy), you are well versed which is good. However I'm thinking that a caucasion has no preference in God's eyes. Because of Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
sounds like they partake of the very same olive tree we partake of.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

you left out my favorite verse among these verses but cool, so the ethnos become the seed of Abraham's. All I'm saying that saying the Jew and the 10 northern tribes, also must include the gentile. Not like these kkk churches trying to exclude the ethnic or even Judah.

You really weren't telling me something I didn't know, however you did correct me on my use of the word Jew (Seeing how it deals with Judah and Benjamin) not the northern tribes, I used to use hebrews which of course refers to the nation God brought through the waters. This is all 12 tribes do you think this is better friend? Serious question no sarcasm.

lutheratx

04-20-2007, 07:45 PM

lutheratx

04-20-2007, 07:51 PM

I also said in one post false angels in which I should have said fallen angels. The chosen race bit is words I let this website put in my mouth and I agree it should be dropped.

skooter942000

04-20-2007, 07:54 PM

ESSE QUAM VIDERI 

- a fake is a fake , - (so it seems)

- not one CBER will stand for CHRIST here?


DODGE called GOD (OUR GOD) a MURDERER.

"What say ye"?

david_munson

04-20-2007, 09:08 PM

Dodge,
if you got stuck in a hole and I threw you a rope that you refused to grab ahold of,why would you consider it my fault?

That is the way you're thinking of God.
At least that is the way you seem to think.

"It's all God's fault" doesn't cut it.

Satan is he murderer not God.

}

smyrna

04-21-2007, 02:31 PM

Skooter,

Very good point in your post #545.

The detractors are so cultish, even when one of them says something totally outrageous, not one will criticize the other.

We saw this when Balaam was posting here, Ultimate1,and 2pillars.

No matter how outrageous, no matter how heretical, the CB detractors didn't utter a peep.

I'm not talking about their comments about SC doctrines. I'm talking about total insults to Christianity in general, and attacks on common beliefs of all Christians.

We also see it with Godchild and Franklin and Arron, who refused to challenge "illogical_al" on the Let's Talk About Satan thread at CB, when he claimed that satan did not exist, and that Moses did not write the Torah, among other things.

And now we see it here.

Does anyone really need more proof?

If any of us SCers said the things these folks have, Franklin, Godchild, and the other CB hypocrites would have been whining and crying, pointing fingers like there was no tomorrow.

And if anyone wants to deny it, they can start reading the past messages from last year up.

It's all here to see.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

watchman_2

04-21-2007, 02:33 PM

dodge,

There is no evidence that the people, which you allege God "murdered", were innocent.

Regarding 2 Kings 2:23-24, check out the Hebrew for "little children". Properly translated, it means 'young men'. Surely, they were of the age of consent.

Regarding Exo. 12:29, what evidence do you have that any of the souls involved would make the first resurrection? They all had their chance at salvation when Jesus went back to preach to all the souls in hell after His crucifixion.

Have you not seen the movie Ten Commandments? Pharoah [Yul Brynner] pronounced the sentence to Moses [Charleton Heston]. The movie is on VHS. Perhaps, you should purchase it and watch it instead of wasting time/money on all that Evolution nonsense.

Regarding Lev. 26:22, check out the Hebrew for "rob you of your children". It means 'miscarriage'. They are not even born.

Regarding Num. 31:17, you need to look at the purpose given in verse 2. They were avenging against the Midianites, their own brother, whom killed Israelites. The Midianites transgressed and deserved the punishment.

Regarding the Nazis, you demonstrate a typical leftist trait -- rewrite history. Check out this link -

http://www.trueorigin.org/holocaust.asp

Under the laws of evolution, 'survival of the fittest' makes it scientifically acceptable for the extermination of the Jews. According to the Nazis, the Jews were evolutionarily inferior to the Aryans and, therefore, had no natural right to live and perpetuate themselves as a species.

I'll take a society governed by God over a society governed by science and leftists anyday. How about you?

skooter942000

04-22-2007, 06:31 PM

Well i am Glad at least David (Stepped up).

The SILENCE from the Detractors , (Is sickening).

reminds me of what must have happened - (in the "AGE THAT WAS").

- What some must have thought........

"""satan is trying to steal the KINGDOM""" ?
(i could care less), i am too busy to care.

"""what has GOD done for me lately""" ?

- May we each REAP , what we SOW.

- Where did "stage director" go?

(..off to "PLAY") - get it?

terluvire

04-22-2007, 06:53 PM

Hi Skooter,

I agree, David, at least, said something to Dodge. The other detractors have been pretty quite toward Dodge since he started posting on our threads.

Dodge has said some of the most vile things, over the past few months or so, concerning our Lord and Savior and well...not a peep from the detractors.

It is very telling.

You said:
- Where did "stage director" go?

Go check out this thread "RAVE REVIEWS FOR AM/SC FROM NEO-NAZI FORUM". That might answer your question.

stage_director

04-22-2007, 07:57 PM

QUOTE
You said:
- Where did "stage director" go?
END QUOTE

Sorry ... "stage director" has a real life so I don't always have time to play in the sandbox with you kids ... but I get warm fuzzies just knowing I've been missed. ;-)

smyrna

04-22-2007, 08:07 PM

Stage Director,

You need to apologize for falsely accusing Pastor Murray, and us SC students, of being racists.

But of course, it won't surprise us at all to see no such apology coming.

But we now have evidence that only and O.J. Simpson trial jurors would deny.

So if you still want to make a fool out of yourself, then go ahead. But we have the truth, straight from the mouths of avowed racists, that Murray is no friend to them.

They have all sorts of unkind things to say about him, because he welcomes non-white people to his Church..well, I won't repeat everything here.

It's all on the RAVE REVIEWS FOR AM/SC FROM NEO-NAZI thread.

Not exactly rave reviews, but as usual, Godchild starts out most of her threads with a lie.

Anyway, I hope your real life doesn't keep you away from that thread for long.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

stage_director

04-22-2007, 08:26 PM

Smyrna, I can't judge your hearts and maybe you members posting here really don't know what the real deal is ... what I've talked about so far is only a small part of what I know about the organization, and can prove. Nothing before it's time though ...

smyrna

04-22-2007, 08:38 PM

hey S_D,

Maybe you should take time away from your real life which is being spent visiting other threads BESIDES the one that has personal testimonies from CI and other racist organizations that are quite disturbed that Pastor Murray does NOT share their racist and anti-semitic views.

See the thread: RAVE REVIEWS FOR AM/SC FROM NEO-NAZI Forum for details.

Based upon your history here, I wouldn't believe anything that you claim, since so far your credibility has been shown to be seriously lacking.

terluvire

04-22-2007, 08:57 PM

SD must be a dancer for she does the twist very well. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

*Come on let's twist truth again like we do at CB
Come on let's twist truth again for all to see
Do you remember when twisting truth time was coming
Come on let's twist truth again, for all to believe

So round and round and up and down, and low again
Oh Cbers let know, you love lies now and then
Come on let's twist truth again like we do at CB
Come on let's twist truth again for all to see*

(sung to the melody of "let's twist again")

skooter942000

04-22-2007, 09:33 PM

SD, you shall never be MISSED. See (Rev 20&22)
- So wipe that smile from your - um, face.

;)

GOD has your number. (as do we)
- (i hope this warms your cold little heart).

- you are a PLAY ACTOR, (not a Stage Director)
& (A FALSE ACCUSER)

Breaking this COMMANDMENT ,(is not going to bode well 4u).

remember:

"REPENTANCE IS A GIFT" http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

Still nothing to add about GOD being called a MURDERER.

- Figures


Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound,
...the love of many shall wax cold.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end,
...the same shall be saved. 

[...SHEEP ON THE RIGHT]

[...Goats on the left]

Don <*))><

smyrna

04-22-2007, 09:58 PM

You gotta love this:

S-D wrote:

"Smyrna, I can't judge your hearts and maybe you members posting here really don't know what the real deal is ... what I've talked about so far is only a small part of what I know about the organization, and can prove. Nothing before it's time though'

Smyrna: Let me translate this.

What she is saying, is she has already seen the rave Reviews..thread. But she is speechless about that. So she backtracks, kind of lightening up by saying:

"I can't judge your hearts"...

Is that right? After how many days of hurling false accusations, silly assumptions, and how many have been proven wrong so far?

Next, she says:"...maybe you members posting here really don't know what the real deal is ...

Smyrna: Another example of arrogance. So she knows what the "real deal" is, but we don't.

Well, so far, she hasn't shown she knows much that is accurate, because the evidence has been posted here already.

S-D goes on: "What I've talked about so far is only a small part of what I know about the organization, and can prove. Nothing before it's time though" ...

Smyrna: She means, "I need to borrow some time so I can come up with some more drivel."

The reason I say this, is she has had how long to share with us her secret knowledge of the SC?

Yet all she has shared so far is the same old tired, false accusations that can be found either here, on other anti-chapel websites that many of the detractors get their info from.

skooter942000

04-22-2007, 10:56 PM

From SD
...Nothing before it's time.... [?]

- (sounds like a LOVELY way to make some "WINE")

Would anyone desire some cheese, to go with their (WINE)?

You "WINE" here - (this listing)
You "WINE" there - (your listing)
You will "WINE" most anywhere - (any listing)

- No PROOF
- is still "NO PROOF"

Anyone can make an accusation.
The DEM'S do this all the time, "without FACTS".

The newest one is: (we LOST the WAR in IRAQ).

(...did we)?

- i think not!!!

- They just don't want to sign the CHECK for our troops to be protected.

Sorry, i am getting off topic....

S-D goes on:

"What I've talked about so far is only a small part of what I know about the organization, and can prove. Nothing before it's time though" ...

8< ------------ cut --------- 8< --------------

- is this the same as the BARN ANIMAL (LIE)?

GOD is watching (...And Allowing)

- Hoping for a Good outcome here , - (i bet).

DIG
DIG
DIG

- The PIT is Gaping. (for all to See)

(is it time to cover this LIE over)?
- With the BLOOD of THE LAMB.

lutheratx

04-22-2007, 11:01 PM

Have racist also adopted the 6th and 8th day doctrine to spread hate absolutely. Where did the get there material from because a good Christian knows Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So the answer to my previous question who benifits from people not knowing the 6th and 8th day creations. Well were these two creations are taught the Kenite is also taught. So all the Kenite (white race) has to do is start a racist organisation with some Neo Nazi and tell them about seperate creations and how only whites brougth you the bible. How do you know there weren't other caucasions made on the 6th day, and I promise you the Kenite (taught by Murray)is caucasion. They probally (the Kenite) either leave this out or teach that Kane was another race which is unbiblical becuase they claimed to be offspring of Judah.(still do) That is why the Jewish religion deny Jesus Christ came to this world, because of these Kenites. Although the exact actions and words that were profiesied took place during the crucifiction.

The kenite has used this to damage good doctrine. They have made it to were churches teach a wishy washy doctrine, becuase they are affraid they will be labled. Alot of these so called Pastors have worked very hard for there position and don't want to give it up. They take a salary not all but most, others love the prestige. They leave the fold under the guise of them being Tolerant of others, when you can teach the truth and let God's word teach his compassion for the Gentile (ethnos). I make mistakes you make mistakes, but God's word taken back to its orginal manuscripts makes no mistakes. This tolerance garbage created by the Kenite is just another way to grease the skids and have alot of churches teaching there are many paths to heaven, just live Good, and God is so fair you will still go to heaven. Yes he is the fairest judge of all, but when you teach that you don't have to believe that he walked this world perfectly to show you how and was brutally killed, you will be one of the first judged to the lake of fire. Satan has always tried to take Christ away from us even before conception, and even while he was alive (he deffinately is the reason for Christ death). Now in this Generation he is going to succeed taking Christ out of the church. Keep calling us racist try to get Murray put off the air you are destined to win, but it is for a short time

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Until when? Hey you detractors as you are so commonly called here (I dont even know what it means) you can possess the kingdom too. Arnold Murray say's even a Kenite can take part in salvation. If kenites can have it and serve in the kingdom just like one from the 10 northern tribes all other races are welcomed. No racism in heaven, the kenite is gone, satan gone. No unfair treatment even today, do you know why Jesus is the living word.

(Message edited by lutheratx on April 22, 2007)

lutheratx

04-23-2007, 12:15 AM

Geuss what I couldn't figure out away to prove the 6th day creation included whites. I should have asked, but I think on a site sponsored by the enemy it is not a good place. Here we go the kenites are able to blend in with Judah in both the old testament and the new. When Kane fled he became betrothed to a sixth day creation. This had to be a white women. They then started the kenite family tree. Disgusting how could you marry Kane? She was probally very unattractive, I only kid.

franklin

04-23-2007, 04:11 AM

What's disgusting is that anyone would believe any of this racist Nazi garbage that spews out of the mouths of satan and arnie. None of it is biblical. None of it is Christian. The only motivation to believe this spiritual poison is

RACISM!

watchman_2

04-23-2007, 06:08 AM

LOL There goes franklin again -- never takes the time to think about what he is claiming.

As a devout disciple of 'onehumanrace.com', franklin should think through what he is advocating.

Onehumanrace.com advocates that, in order for there to be a change in skin color from the alleged single pure race commenced with Adam, there would have to be genetic defects occurring at some point in the bloodline after Adam. When significant enough of these defective people mate with each other, a race of people are formed.

So, by way of franklin's advocacy of onehumanrace.com, he is also claiming that all black and oriental people are genetic defects. LOL!

So, the viewer has a clear cut choice as to whom's beliefs are racist. There is the SC belief that God created all of the races and it was very good. Or, there is the cultblunderers' belief that the original white race [the race of Adam as evidenced by the Jews today] is pure; whereas, all the other races are defects!

Pretty easy to see that franklin and the cultblunderer crowd are the true RACISTS!

franklin

04-23-2007, 06:22 AM

All races and ethnic groups descend from Adam and Eve only. The Bible says so. Repeatedly.

Whites, Blacks and Orientals. We do not know what color skin Adam and Eve were. The Bible does not say.

But genetically if a brother breeds with a sister, or a cousin with a cousin through time genetic defects occur. That is historically and scientifically proven. Within the Hebrew nation that was banned at the time of Moses.

All races were effected by inbreeding and separation.

So it is NOT just the black and oriental races that were altered genetically by inbreeding. The white race also.

So you are wasting your time trying to pin the racist label on me or the website you refer to. It don't stick. Just some more of your typical perverting of the truth.

But the racist label fits you and arnie to a "T"!

Give it up heretic. Abandon arnie and his satanic lies!

stage_director

04-23-2007, 06:51 AM

QUOTE
Is that right? After how many days of hurling false accusations, silly assumptions, and how many have been proven wrong so far?
END QUOTE

You've proven nothing wrong just because you say it's wrong ... As for judging, that's right, I can't do that ... but let there be no doubt that I can still discern the smell of rotten fruit, so ... even if your doctrine were right? Most of you would still be in the wrong.

smyrna

04-23-2007, 02:48 PM

This is how stupid Franklin is:

"But genetically if a brother breeds with a sister, or a cousin with a cousin through time genetic defects occur. That is historically and scientifically proven. Within the Hebrew nation that was banned at the time of Moses.

All races were effected by inbreeding and separation."

Smyrna: Does that jive with what God declared in Genesis? That all He created was very good?

And why did not God include the other nations, rather than just the Hebrews, in this prohibition against incest?

This would mean that Franklin thinks God made everything imperfect, like a built in imperfection. Satan had no role in this, if you go with Franklin's explanation.

But are we surprised? Franklin and the other CBers think satan was not even present in the Garden of Eden. They don't think he exists anywhere outside the pages of Scripture. To them, he is just an "invention."

And he calls us heretics. What a shame.

smyrna

04-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Stage Director wrote:

"You've proven nothing wrong just because you say it's wrong" ...

Smyrna: I AGREE! And that is why we posted the actual quotes from real members of true racist and CI groups, who expressed harsh criticism about Pastor Murray NOT being a racist, allowing non-whites in his Church, and even jobs in the SC office, and even saying he has nothing to do with them!

Why do you continue to act as if you did not see the Rave Reviews for am/sc on Neo-Nazi Forum thread?

By the way, what an act of poetic justice! Godchild begins that thread, trying to use one post from Stormfront to "prove" the racists like Murray.

But overwhelmingly, the quotes there are clearly expressing aggravation towards the SC and Murray, because he is NOT one of them, because he is NOT racist, NOT CI, and that is the dominant opinion of avowed racists!

lutheratx

04-23-2007, 03:58 PM

Is this racist?

Acts 13:46-49
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. (Greek word ethnos or word ethnic comes from it)
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

They sure did glorify the Lord and why not he is there God to. You must not of read my post the one right before the one that I figured out the white race was part of the sixth day creation. Franklin I'm sure you are in fact the bigot here sir, becuase how do I know that I am not of the same day as you are. However you call me a member of a cult you bigot. You imposter Im tired of you fellas thinking you know so much, I want to show you more than likely a fellow of the ethnos an open door to where I congregate but you would rather have a waterdown version of the bible. Sir you are welcome to join serve God not a white man, however as many times as I have been called racist I may no longer through pearls before you Friend. Hey enjoy your rapture buddy enjoy your new found white friends that tell you that you were absolutely right those guys were racist. They'll stroke your ego to and tell you how good you were for hurling insults at them and standing up for yourself. Once again you are welcome to my church.

P.S. Did I not just supply more scripture that say's It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you:..... He chose a seedline quit trippin it also says they refused it meaning what? Heck these guys stand less of a chance at salvation.

smyrna

04-23-2007, 04:12 PM

Franklin also wrote:

"But the racist label fits you and arnie to a "T"!"

I guess Frankie has not yet read the Factnet thread: Rave Reviews for am/sc from Neo-Nazi forum.

Now that is not our problem if he refuses to ignore hard evidence tthat proves he is a liar. But do we need the evidence to prove he is lying, over all the evidence that we already have?

Also, I suggest you folks, especially Ter, Angie, and Watchman, to also comment on Franklin's post.

I see more holes in it. But I don't want to have all the fun.

And since we know he thinks everything the SC teaches is a lie, then maybe you can just use what 100% of ALL Christians believe, in order to show Frankie how silly his post is.

Once again, he is using a man's doctrine, and not the Bible, which he claims is all he uses. HYPOCRITE!

Hint: Read onehumanrace.com yourself, for your ammunition.

lutheratx

04-23-2007, 04:14 PM

Hey Franklin show me in scripture buddy it is clear we don't agree on the 6th day and the 8th day so it has to be one other place buddy just one prove it. I ve already shown several and have copied everyone of my post lets rock baby, I aint no chump Im tried and true. You call my religous beliefs into question I want to see were in scripture it says we all came from Adam and Eve I know that Abraham is the father of many nations try looking there. Look there Im sure you can find something to distort. It has nothing to do with the fact Christ was coming through that family does it. You'll find your scripture there awe heck Ill find it for you. Give me some time I won't twist it for you I'll just provide it Im tried and true baby. Once again I hate getting on to you like this. You just listened to the wrong fella it is not your fault.

lutheratx

04-23-2007, 04:27 PM

Genesis 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee

Just explain this one too.

Galations 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

watchman_2

04-23-2007, 05:02 PM

smyrna,

By now, it is universally known that Franklin's posts are full of holes. He has yet to make a valid point.

Since Franklin now claims that all of the races were defects, we must also assume that Franklin is also saying that Christ was a genetic defect.

LOL!

terluvire

04-23-2007, 05:04 PM

Franklin,

You heretic! Saying God caused the races to come about because of genetic defects!! Shame on you!!

Franklin, Why did God prohibit the Hebrews from incest but not the other people? Is it that he wanted the other races to come about through genetic mutations and defects???? Would that seem fair?? I don't think so.

You call US racist because we believe God created all the races beautifully, exactly the way he wanted them??? Yet you claim the races are a result of some genetic mistake!!!

Wouldn't that go against what God say about all he had created....that is was VERY GOOD? How could it be good if God knew there was a built-in genetic defect ready to be set in motion, for he knew we were to be fruitful and multiply. He did tell them that..right? Through your theory of inbreeding and genetic defects, would make God foreknowing his creation would turn into genetic defects.

That completely goes against God claiming his creation was VERY GOOD. You are making his creation out to be a mistake, something missing, a defect.

Heretic!!

smyrna

04-23-2007, 05:34 PM

Ter and Watchman,

You both made good points. Watchman, that is a great point, that Frankie must have to claim Jesus inhabited a genetically defective body, one that God predestined to be genetically defective.

Ter nailed it by calling that krap a theory.

Frankie is once again being a hypocrite.

He takes some man's theory, and recommends and defends it, but calls Pastor Murray's teachings theories, so whether they are theories or not, Frankie has impeached himself, just by claiming Murray's teachings are theories.

In other words, if it is a theory, that frankie agrees with, then it's okay.

But if anyone else has a theory that he doesn't agree with, it is false teaching.

I wonder what Scriptures the author of onehumanrace.com had to "twist and perveert" to arrive at his silly theories?

onehumanrace.com also claims that modern man, beause of these genetic mistakes, is not as intelligent as ancient man.

In Franklin's case, that is correct. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

angie0401

04-23-2007, 06:11 PM

In other words, if it is a theory, that frankie agrees with, then it's okay.
He actually said that on the Who is Cain's Father? thread when I busted him for plagiarizing someone's work. It was one of those liberal theologians who doesn't believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch and that satan is not a real entity.

Sounds like heresy to me!

But if anyone else has a theory that he doesn't agree with, it is false teaching.
Did you forget that franklin has the "true" interpretation?? That's what he said, but he never did tell me which interpretation of Gen 3:15 I am supposed to believe (I think he subscribes to the one about it being about our crushing snake eggs http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif ) or which Bible translation I'm supposed to believe every word of or why I'm supposed to not believe Paul's words...

It reminds me of a song that a lady at church sings - You've Got to Know What You Believe or You'll Believe Anything (I just call it "The Franklin Song" for short.) http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

watchman_2

04-23-2007, 07:00 PM

franklin,

How long does a genetic defect take in order to form a person with a different skin color than Adam and Eve???? Have you actually read the information at onehumanrace.com??? Have you done the math???

Well, if you ever took the time to read the Bible instead of playing space nut cult games at cultblunders, you would notice that Noah was not a genetic defect.

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

So, in the nine generations from Adam to Noah there were no genetic defects. So, we can assume that it would take a minimum of nine generations thereafter before the slightest hint of a genetic defect would manifest itself.

If one looks at your bible -- onehumanrace.com -- one can see the clear statistics, based upon today's genetic defects, that 99.8% of the people do not have DNA variation. Of the 0.2% of the people exhibiting DNA variation from the parents, 6% of the deviation is racial [skin color].

Hence, if one does the math, in 99.988% of the births, based upon today's defect statistics, the skin color of the child will be the same as the parents.

Using this statistic, it is easy to calculate the number of generations it would take to have a 50% probability of having a different skin color than that of Noah.

50% = 99.988%^x, where x = number of generations

hence,
0.50 = .99988^x

to solve,

x = log 0.50/log 0.99988

solution,

x = 5776

Hence, your own source, onehumanrace.com, proves you wrong in that it would take 5,776 generations of genetic defects to produce a child with a 50-50 chance of being a different skin color than the original progenitor, Adam.

The statistics rule out any possibility of all the races originating from Adam and Eve.

terluvire

04-23-2007, 07:34 PM

Man....I love your post Watchman!! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

smyrna

04-23-2007, 07:53 PM

Watchman,

That is one of your best posts yet.

It's funny that just earlier this morning, Stage Director claimed none of us ever proved them wrong about anything.

I'll tell you, the last few days have not been a very good time for the detractors. Much worse than usual.

Their balloons have been popped big time.

Godchild has been chased back under her rock (which, by the way isn't our Rock)

Stage Director has been reduced to muttering barely coherent, laughable attempts to save face,

Gone_to_Pa took a quick space flight back to planet Sretsubtluc,

and Arron got dropped off at his home planet Diputs, in the good ship Lollipop, piloted by Captain Franklin, who couldn't stand the climate here.

It got too hot for him. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

rachelengland

04-23-2007, 07:54 PM

Franklin, you always get these people tied up into knots don't you and it doesn't take much does it? I was discussing with a few co-workers today a program they have been enjoying about the planet earth. It discussed the many different facets of this awesome earth..at one point it talked about the great sequoias we have out in California and how this tree though looking different is the exact same tree that grows in the South American rainforest and a 1000 miles off of the artic coast but what changed this tree..I presume it was the weather and the living conditions in which it thrives- much like humans..depending on their climate and the climate of their ancestors their skin and its texture will acclimate to it's environment.

I am still unsure if I personally believe God did not create more than one race of people BUT I think if he did that it all happened at that same time(and our salvation certainly can't depend on our take on the races)..won't it be great when Jesus comes back and he looks like an Ethopian and all these SCers go "Wait this can't be God AM said he was the pure white Adam that could blush"

I just don't know why these SC people are so hung up on colour and race and the lost tribes-shame on them. And then they come up with disregarding genetic defects but have no problem throwing the word "retarded" or mentally incompetant around when someone disagrees with them..interesting group- glad some of you have the patience...R

angie0401

04-23-2007, 08:26 PM

Rachel,
much like humans..depending on their climate and the climate of their ancestors their skin and its texture will acclimate to it's environment

Have you been reading onehumanrace, too? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

Franklin, you always get these people tied up into knots don't you and it doesn't take much does it?
Just goes to show you, if you tell a lie long enough, you eventually start to believe it - right, rach?

I just don't know why these SC people are so hung up on colour and race and the lost tribes-shame on them
Hey, it's your lie - you can tell it any way you like (but it's still a lie)

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

rachelengland

04-23-2007, 08:34 PM

"Have you been reading onehuman race too?"(Angie0401)..

actually ang- I have never looked at the sight but it can't be anymore whacked than what you believe..oh I forgot you don't know what you believe your an Scer who claims to be a Baptist..that's a good onehttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

angie0401

04-23-2007, 08:48 PM

I have never looked at the sight

So on what do you base your profound insight as to humans being affected by climates in the same way plants are affected? Your "medical" background? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

I forgot you don't know what you believe your an Scer who claims to be a Baptist

So, you think that one has to believe EVERYTHING that a particular church/group/denomination believes? That sounds rather cultish to me.

Maybe that's why you can't find a church to attend - you think that you must believe EXACTLY like everyone else at that church...

Does that mean that franklin does NOT believe that Moses wrote the Pentateuch? The article he plagiarized from said exactly that - and I believe it might have also said that satan wasn't a real entity - does franklin believe that, also?

rachelengland

04-23-2007, 08:54 PM

"won't it be great when Jesus comes back and he looks like an Ethopian and all these SCers go "Wait this can't be God AM said he was the pure white Adam that could blush"

You just have to love Jesus don't you-He never was what anyone expected- the old timers were waiting for a magnificent prince charming to free them from the Roman rule. One of great education and wealth and Jesus, He just blew them all away by hanging out with a former prostitute and a bunch of fisherman not to mention a shifty former tax collector...His colour makes no difference and outer shell is of no importance and there is nothing you could say that will make Him blushhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif He loves you all though- despite your crabbiness and dull sense of humour...R

terluvire

04-23-2007, 09:03 PM

Hey Rachel, it not us who keep bringing up the race stuff. It's you people. Look at the beginning, who started it, us or all of you?

All we did was explain our understanding of the Scripture, and defended ourselves against the racism charges.

It's all of you which are hung up on it, not us. Serious, I could care less what race a person is. Have we ever asked what race any of you are for the sole purpose of using racism? NO. But some of you have asked what race we are.

rachelengland

04-23-2007, 09:17 PM

YOU PEOPLE-you just called me terluvire- now you are placing me in a particular group...you like to to do that don't you-kenites, detractors tribes etc...

As you can see from my post above, I did not say I agreed with Franklin about "one human race" and he is aware of that I am sure but we must admit environment has a lot to do with how something grows and looks and what kind of protection it needs- do you disregard this.

It is speculation on the part of humans to think they have the Bible figured out because they own a strong's concordance and I find it odd none of you ever disagree on anything...do you have any independent ideas-do you believe Am get's it right 100% of the time?

skooter942000

04-23-2007, 09:59 PM

From Terri:
(to franklin)

You heretic! Saying God caused the races to come about because of genetic defects!! Shame on you!!

----------------8< --- cut --------------

AMEN - TERRI __(A-M-E-N)__

This reply came to be,
- because of this TRASH from Franklin!!!

|
|
V

franklin
Senior Member
Username: franklin

Post Number: 5123
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.53.135.187

All races were effected by inbreeding and separation.

So it is NOT just the black and oriental races that were altered genetically by inbreeding. The white race also.

---8< ----cut ---cut ---cut 8< -----------------------

- Talk about RACIST words!!!

- Franklin takes the CAKE!!!
....(W/his words)

He is a equal opportunity offender.

And he is the one pointing his fingers at others.

Woo Wee

These words are going to HAUNT him.
- (When FATHER gets a hold of him).

- AMAZING!!!!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/blush.gif

skooter942000

04-23-2007, 10:15 PM

From Rachel,

"won't it be great when Jesus comes back and he looks like an Ethopian and all these SCers go "Wait this can't be God AM said he was the pure white Adam that could blush"

--------------------------------------

-Hey Rachel

- PROVE THIS P-O-V. (point of view)

ADAM was RUDDY COMPLECTED.
-That is scriptural (See Strong's #119 from #120)

You lack credibility with your messages.
- Most messages.

(and just lost more, with this ONE message)

GOD can be , (As HE will BE).

'i' could care LESS. ('i' LOVE HIM). Period

- But CHRIST was RUDDY COMPLECTED.

- That is historical.

(And HE was in the IMAGE of "GOD", "THE FATHER").

Have you ever tried to check the history of this?

- ever?

Pontius Pilot wrote of CHRIST.
- Of HIS description.

- Try reading that - (dear)

Are you siding with Franklin, (your leader)?
- Do you believe as he does?

His views are easy to see ,
(now that he has shared what's in his heart).

- Read my last message
- And reply back. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Don <*))><

franklin

04-23-2007, 10:35 PM

Ruddy means red. Whites do NOT have red skin. Some American Indians, orientals, do.

Main Entry: rud·dy
Pronunciation: 'r&-dE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): rud·di·er; -est
Etymology: Middle English rudi, from Old English rudig, from rudu redness; akin to Old English rEad red -- more at RED
1 : having a healthy reddish color
2 : RED, REDDISH
3 British -- used as an intensive <bellowed like a ruddy bull when she wanted food --

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ruddy

Does not mean the ability to blush. By the way all races white, yellow and black have the ability to blush, so you are wrong on both counts.

Genesis 3:20

"Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living."

There is NO way you can twist and pervert God's word there. If you try it proves you are following a false doctrine for racist reasons!

franklin

04-23-2007, 10:38 PM