Soul or Spirit. Death or eteranl life in torment

[wrobert]

The wages of sin is death. A web-page about this is at: www.roboerwr.com/hell.html

[trainedobserver]

Death comes to all living things regardless of their behavior as judged by any set of standards you care to produce. Suggesting that death is the result of some sort of rebellion, disobedience, or "missing the mark" of some standard of conduct ignores the experience of human beings throughout history. All living things die regardless or ideology, religion, or behavior.

[orthodox]

It was the first day of my 7th grade Algebra class. The new teacher was this tall, rawboned oakie who reminded me a lot of Minnie Pearl.
She was reading the roster, came to my uncommon name and took a deep breath, looking with more than polite interest into my face.

I discovered later she had dated the grandfather I never knew, he passing away when my own father was a baby.

That was one strange math class! She would take delight in mannerisms I wasn't even aware of and knew how I would react to things.

Death is something even a Bristlecone Pine probably contemplates, slowly on some unmeasurable cellular leverl of introspection over a few hundred years before changing the subject.

I figure if a ancient pinetree can produce nuts with optimism I can do likewize.

[jargon631]

Death comes to all living things regardless of their behavior as judged by any set of standards you care to produce. Suggesting that death is the result of some sort of rebellion, disobedience, or "missing the mark" of some standard of conduct ignores the experience of human beings throughout history. All living things die regardless or ideology, religion, or behavior.


its also very convenient...the wages of life itself is death... you can say that eternal life awaits the holy because dead people dont come back to life and say "dude, i was in heaven, its all true"...fd

[truth_child]

i will have eternal life with JESUS but the lost will have eternal death with SATAN IN HELL FIRE

[orthodox]

It is not for me to judge who is saved or not. It's like judging other's comittment to the various fast days in my church calender. We are admonished to attend to our own fasting. And it being thursday and nearly noon, I want a big cheeseburger and vanilla shake.

[trainedobserver]

i will have eternal life with JESUS but the lost will have eternal death with SATAN IN HELL FIRE

You have no evidence that either of those things are true. You "believe" that for no good reason other than you think you should (that is, your faith demands it). I think these gleeful declarations of someone's supposed eternal security vs some other's eternal damnation to be pretty distasteful and a bit telling. Lovely.

[jargon631]

It is not for me to judge who is saved or not. It's like judging other's comittment to the various fast days in my church calender. We are admonished to attend to our own fasting. And it being thursday and nearly noon, I want a big cheeseburger and vanilla shake.


i agree...we are better off concerning ourselves with ourselves...fd

[trainedobserver]

... you can say that eternal life awaits the holy because dead people dont come back to life and say "dude, i was in heaven, its all true"...fd

Well various people have claimed to have had NDEs (Near Death Experience) where they supposedly have experienced one version of the afterlife or another. My general understanding of those experiences suggest to me that most probably they are experiencing the spurious neurological events of a dying or traumatized brain which they later interprete one way or another based on thier beliefs once they recover. Logically speaking death cannot be experienced. An experience of "death" would require an experiencer and in the case of the death experience the experiencer is dead and therefore doesn't experience anything.

[truth_child]

the christian never dies but goes to sleep as far as i am concerned and yes i knw that the world counts them dead and we bury their bodies but their souls are with THE LORD in a place of peace and rest till all christians get home

[jargon631]

Well various people have claimed to have had NDEs (Near Death Experience) where they supposedly have experienced one version of the afterlife or another. My general understanding of those experiences suggest to me that most probably they are experiencing the spurious neurological events of a dying or traumatized brain which they later interprete one way or another based on thier beliefs once they recover. Logically speaking death cannot be experienced. An experience of "death" would require an experiencer and in the case of the death experience the experiencer is dead and therefore doesn't experience anything.


very well put...fd

[truth_child]

i know i had a near death experiance. when i had my heart attack (five by passes) it was an emergency i didnt know i ws goig to have one nor did i feel like i was for i did not hurt. when i had it it knew i was floating yet i knew i was on the table or whatever they had me on it was totaly dark except i was in the light. a voice ( which i imediatly reconized as satan ) said your going to die then my wife, who had passed away a few years befoe walked up to my bed laid her hands on me and sid you are not going to die but live... and i did /
now before you ask no i DO NOT bleive in talking to the dead I DID NOT TALK TO HER. during this time i had a peace like i never experianced in my life all during the time.

[orthodox]

People in Southern California may have heard of Earl Shieb ' I'll paint any car for $29.99' or whatever each decade raised it to. Point is, he was cheap, as was the work.
If you could stand and point a spraygun, Earl would hire you. I was hired one summer while in College.
I was painting this Buick and the fumes got to me. I passed out and stopped breathing. I felt my soul leave my body. I could see it lyinig there on the cement floor, cold, lifeless, dead.
A few seconds later I felt myself yanked back down as a firefighter pumped my chest and blew air in my lungs.
I told my anglican priest what happened. He scratched his chin, looked thoughtfull and leaned back in his chair. "Chris, you had an autobody experience."

[bluewater2]

"Chris, you had an autobody experience."

Actually, you had a drug induced hallucination.

[Night_Light]

There is nothing more I hate then people telling other people what they have and have not experienced..

[truth_child]

i did experiance near death

[trainedobserver]

Well, I think the NDE business is really interesting and worthy of a great deal of thought and consideration. I'm not completely sure what is going on, that is why I said, "that most probably" it was one way rather than another. It appears that there is a great deal of evidence that suggests NDEs can be explained by neurological processes in a oxygen starved brain. We know that dreams and hallucinations can be practacly indesernable from normal sensory based perceived reality therefore it is difficult to attest to the "reality" of any experience that cannot be immediately verified by the shared experience of another human being. I've come to think that all out of body experiences are illusions and can be explained by neurology. I've read a great deal about people who claim to be able to OBE but no one has produced evidence to convince me it is actually occuring anywhere but within the convines of their skulls. If OBE is possible where is the clinical evidence?

[jargon631]

People in Southern California may have heard of Earl Shieb ' I'll paint any car for $29.99' or whatever each decade raised it to. Point is, he was cheap, as was the work.
If you could stand and point a spraygun, Earl would hire you. I was hired one summer while in College.
I was painting this Buick and the fumes got to me. I passed out and stopped breathing. I felt my soul leave my body. I could see it lyinig there on the cement floor, cold, lifeless, dead.
A few seconds later I felt myself yanked back down as a firefighter pumped my chest and blew air in my lungs.
I told my anglican priest what happened. He scratched his chin, looked thoughtfull and leaned back in his chair. "Chris, you had an autobody experience."



"right, ill paint any car for only 99.95" he paints Everything , doorhandles, mirrors etc...what about cal worthinton and his dog spot?...fd