Join the Transportation of Elohyim at the Fig Tree

[godchild]

Why is it the figgers here don't share all this good "stuff" from the fig tree (theseason.org, for serious students of am/sc, choke, choke):

Check out some of the nutty things Darth Murray at Dachau Chapel has said:

"You got the keys to hell, hell is the departed souls, meaning death as well; if you've got the right keys, you have the keys that unlock hell and unlock death and you can loose anyone from it, if they will listen"

"The wolf is naturally symbolic of Satan himself"

"That 5th dimension is the Christ in us that you can't see, but believe me, it's there"

"If you anoint that wall in the power of Jesus Christ order anything negative to stay away from it"

"I'm 6 foot 4 and I can deck most anybody that walks on two feet"

I know the figgers will say these statements by am are taken out of context. Funny though, they never want to explain "what context" this goofy stuff was said in.

Oh yes, the transportation of Elohyim: This person nitrogov starts with am's study of Revelation and leaps right into ufo's. I'll just post a couple of really good stuff that proves they're on the nutty side:
Nitrogov

What is this "Clouds" thing?


I would venture to say that something that sets apart Shepherd's Chapel and it's Students, is an awareness of the transport used in The Word Of God.


I would like to put forth my studies on this "Transportation Issue" here, for your peruse, both well weathered students and new, for documentation as to why. I will add in sections over time. Feel free to join in.
--------------
You can read the whole silly mess over there, over there, over there in la-la land (if they've come in for a landing).

He/she gets a lot of hoorahs from the other figgers but this one is a hoot (and they're soooo serious about it. Ask smearna, he's really into the ufo thing, giving links and more)---gc

--------------
olivemas
Senior Noontender
Posts: 939

Re: The Transportation Of Elohiym
----------------
So are you saying God has UFO's ? Well as I have said before I call them IFO's (Identified) Flying Object's cause of Ezekiel and now all those other scrip's and definitions you have given US. You are doing a great job with this study and I thank you. The ones I saw turned not wither they went. No curve whatsoever. Straight lines only, while flying in to do the formation and on their departure. I think it is good for people to understand these things the way our Father has voiced them in the Word. I think also their must be something more about how satan took Christ to that mountain and set him on the pinnacle.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Jesus is led up to the wilderness. Then up to the holy city. How much further can one be led up. Even a mountain you can see all the Kingdoms of the earth. Whats up wit dat?

So I would say satan has his mode of transport also. It either has a few less buttons then Gods or its a four banger as opposed to a 12 cylinder. LOL
-----------------------------------
Gag me with a place setting!---gc

[smyrna]

"You got the keys to hell, hell is the departed souls, meaning death as well; if you've got the right keys, you have the keys that unlock hell and unlock death and you can loose anyone from it, if they will listen"

Smyrna: To Peter, Jesus said he would give him the keys to the kingdom, and whatever Peter shall bind shall be bound in heaven.
He gave ALL His disciples (followers) power over evil, which is what that was all about.

"The wolf is naturally symbolic of Satan himself"

Smyrna: Godchild's Biblical illiteracy is showing.
Reference Zeph. 3:3, and Jesus who compared false teachers to "ravining wolves." Many times in Scripture, woves are said to be "ravining" i.e. tearing, redning in peices, which satan surely does to his "prey" i.e. souls.

"That 5th dimension is the Christ in us that you can't see, but believe me, it's there"

Smyrna: Not sure whether this is exactly what Pastor Murray said, but the number 5 to BIBLICALLY literate people means grace, and certainly by God's grace Christ was given to us, and dwells in us.


"If you anoint that wall in the power of Jesus Christ order anything negative to stay away from it"

Smyrna: Godchild finds something wrong with that? I guess because she is not in harmony with Scripture, she cannot correlate this with the anointing of the Tabernacle:
Exd 40:9,Lev. 8:10.

Unlike Godchild, many Churches anoint people, places and things, as we can see from this reference:
http://www.poweronhigh.com/anointing.htm

"I'm 6 foot 4 and I can deck most anybody that walks on two feet"

Smyrna: Awesome! Godchils must not be capable of relating Pastors' comment with the strngth of those God has given strength, such as Samson, and all those who YHVH sent into battles in the Old Testament.

AS for UFO's Godchild refuses to acknowlegde that they exists, that thousands, perhaps millions of people beleive there is some connection between events in the Bible and posible physical or appearing to be physical beings from the heavens.

There is so much information on this subject, and Godchild acts as if only SC students beleive their is such a connection!

But hse has no problem believing people who tell her satan probably does not exist, or that Moses didn't write the Torah, though it is clear by reading Scripture that he did, something Godchild does little of.

Finally, Godchild spends more time on the Figtree then most SC students do, so she can criticize us for not doing so, but after all, she actually thinks that SC OWNS The Season!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[godchild]

am owns you, not such a leap to think he owns your sites. Is it! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/smile.gif

Reine runs theseason and I understand she's the 'money person'(propriestess) who pays for am's garbage. That means he 'owns' her too. I've read enough of her posts saying what goes on there has to be approved by am or his lackies. What fools you all are. You support him, his sites, his jets, everything. Hey, it's your money. Throw it away. Who cares?

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">LOL godchild, you do make me laugh, and for that....I thank you. I do enjoy a good laugh...lol

PM has nothing to do with the Figtree. The only thing that was ever said was about students posting copy written material by the Chapel. I think anyone would say something if their copy written stuff was posted on the web without approval. Does that mean they control the site? Well no, that's just foolish thinking.

The only site Pastor Murray has is: http://www.shepherdschapel.com/

You know this, and you also know you are trying to twist the truth to fit your own agenda.

Again godchild, we ask....where does Jesus approve of such behavior? Please provide Scripture.

Thanks</font>

[ezekiel_37]

Pastor Murray, a pilot, does indeed have a PLANE, 1, which was donated and it's upkeep paid for by a "well to do" student.

It is not a JET or multiple JETS as godchild is lying about. The sad part is that godchild knows this and is outright lying.

I wonder how Our Father will see these actions?

I wonder if she has really examined herself, because a Christian is not supposed to bear false witness, so since she does this over and over again, she is only doing lip service to our Father and is not showing her Christian side, but rather her OLD Woman side. I would have said Old Man side, but we all know that she is an OLD WOMAN.

Does God really want you to LIE godchild?

I do not say this out of guile but rather honesty.
You just can't trust her. The proof is all over these threads.

[david_munson]

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
Trust?
My favorite verse.
"Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."
Trust.

</font>}

[lutheratx]

Why attack a man, if you would like me to re evalute my beliefs. I could give a flip about Pastor Murrays habits. I do care about the food he provides me. Now you will notice any time you put scripture up I rub your noses in it. I do have alot of love for you, but when you grab one sentence out of my post and use it against me and never post scripture. You really are proving you haven't got a strong biblical background. So you want to stand toe to toe in heated bible debate cool I would appreciate it. You are not dumb people. If you just want to highlight my speck you must first pull the amazon rainforest out of your eye. Read your bible.

[smyrna]

Lutheratx,

You wrote: "I do have alot of love for you, but when you grab one sentence out of my post and use it against me and never post scripture. You really are proving you haven't got a strong biblical background. So you want to stand toe to toe in heated bible debate cool I would appreciate it."

If you take the time to read through these threads, you will see you hit it right on the button.

Most of the people here who oppose the SC, are not very well versed in Biblical studies.

That is clear, and all of us have been exposed to what Fundamentalism brings.
Several years ago, I penned what I call the Fundamentalist's Creed. I'll paste it up here for you, it kind of tells it all, when it comes to those who get so upset by anyone who disagrees with that summary.

[smyrna]

THE FUNDAMENTALIST'S CREED

I believe in the inerrancy of my favorite Bible version, whatever that version may be. I believe two people were put by God into a garden, and a talking snake gave them a magic fruit, because the fruit could turn them into gods. I don’t know why that would make them eat the fruit, after they ate it, they suddenly got a funny feeling, and it made them feel like they should make clothes out of leaves.

God got mad because they let the snake pull tricks on them. But he told the snake that from now on whenever he has any seeds, I guess for more of those magic trees, then God will make sure we know the difference between the seeds Eve has and the seeds the snake has.

Anyway, I also believe that there was a real bad rainstorm, because God wanted to kill everyone except one family and start all over. He didn’t want to have to make new animals, so he made the guy who he wanted to save from the flood go all over the world collecting animals from every climate, fresh water fish, birds, bugs, etc.

He must have been a very fast worker because he was able to do that and build a huge boat at the same time. Whatever, that’s what it says so I know it must be true. Modern English and ancient Hebrew aren’t any different from each other, so what it says in english must be what it said in Hebrew.

Anyway, after the rain, Noah and the misses and their kids settled down and...well, the strangest thing, but Noah’s children had their own children of all sort of different colors!

There were these real giant people too, and some false teachers say they were because angels did sexual things with women, but I don’t believe that. I think they were just big bad people that came from somewhere where there must have been very good food! They were very bad, and the Jews killed them, even though I thought only really bad people killed other people. I guess they were bad, the Jews, but I can’t talk too much about that because it’s also bad to say things about the Jews, that’s anti-semitism.

That’s all I really know about ancient times, except the times when Jesus was born. Jesus was born, but the Jews didn’t believe he was anything special, well some did, but not all. These three really smart guys came from somewhere, and gave him presents, which was cool. But the Romans, who were in charge of the whole world, eventually handed him over to the religious establishment, and they killed him.

But Jesus rose from the dead, and He said He will come again. Even those wicked Shepherd’s Chapel students know that. But you know what? All the people in my church, not any one else’s because they are all bad, will get to go on a trip to outer space first. Jesus is coming to take us for a tour of space, because the baddest man in history is going to be born, and he will make all the bad people get tattoos that say 666 on their heads. Well, maybe a bar code or even a computer chip, my Pastor isn’t sure yet. He is pretty sure that this bad man might be the Pope, well the next Pope. This one is pretty old. He said it doesn’t really matter, because by that time we will probably be in the vicinity of Mars or Jupiter.

I can’t wait either, because these really scary black helicopters keep flying around my house, and staring at me. Anyway, after all the bad stuff is over, we are going to come back from our trip and live for 1000 years on earth. But right at the end, the devil will be let out of jail on parole, and he will make some people be bad. Then, God will get mad about this and have Judgement Day. Oh yeah, I have to ask my Pastor why there will be a future Judgment day, since so many people are in hell already.

[lutheratx]

That does kind of summarise the beliefs of the modern day church and show's me you are well versed in the bible. Also hilarious, you know it is funny that people know that there is a group taking over (black helicopter) and if they don't know this, they just let the powers that be give them there everyday news. Some do know but will ease right on into it because the lack of biblical doctrine won't change, they will still get to there neighborhood pastor. The one that drives the Lexus for there own pleasure. I know I know our pastor has an air plane, but doesn't he also fly places to help with translating things like the dead sea scrolls and things of the like, that others just can't seem to translate. He gets there and finds out there miss translating a letter because the side of the world they where in when it was written. It is no big deal to talk against a pasture, that's right pasture where this lamb is fed, but these people won't figure out that they are recieving no blessings. You know what though Satan's bootcamp pays pretty well though, how else would he seise the finances from everybody else. However Satan can't give health or happiness'. Just education, politics, finances, and his special brand of one world religion. You know the funny thing is they still have repentance, Gods Mercy Endureth Forever, He is long suffering, and worthy all our praise. Worthy of all our praise
64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our <u>righteousnesses</u> are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away

Wow so when we are righteous it is still nothing compared to the works of the <font size="+1">Father</font>
To these people who will change please come on in the water is fine. Please do some research on what you are fed Ive heard many people's version of the bible. Keep watching the Chapel if you don't like the questions and answers don't watch them. Although in a very short time I was able to pick up alot with these very same question and answers. Stand against satan get ready to fight the serpent. God is going to do all the work, but many will change when satan is bullying us.
Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, <font color="ff0000">I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. </font>

[godchild]

from another scer about the topic of this thread:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HI cathy,
I think the ufo's or basicly GODS creations just like we are,and I think they will play a part in the end of this world,
I allso think that most CHRISTAINS try to limit GODS love of life to there own kind,
one of the most inportent things PM tought me was to look at EZE. in a new light,
I think the watchers in the book of eknock came here in what we call UFO's,as they did not come by the berth of women,and they where not only spirit as they got hooked up with weman and made offspring,
I think they are from an older age,or at least a for away one,
here lately my interest has been with them,
I think the knowledge of them holds the key of not being deseaved
as well as being deseaved,
I think PM has pointed us in a dyrecktion but can go no farther with out beeing taken off the air,the whole UFO/WATCHERS thing is very interesting,
I found this link interesting
www.bibleufo.com/index.htm (http://www.bibleufo.com/index.htm)


Edited by: back2wind at: 8/28/07 12:09 am
-----------end
Even am's students agree am has to be careful of what parts of his teachings can go out over the airwaves.-gc

[lutheratx]

You'll notice repeatedly this person states I think, meaning these are my thoughts on it. Im after all you today. The others are gone but I'm still here.

[oneway]

"Im
after all you today. The others are gone but I'm still here."


http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[stage_director]

Actually, Back2wind is a really nice guy. He posts on OTS sometimes and treats everybody, Shep Chap or not, with extreme decency. He's very interested in anything having to do with UFOs. Just wanted to mention that ...

[godchild]

I'm sure he is. If I hadn't posted his name with what he said "Am pointing them in the direction of ufos", I would be accused of making it up. It isn't about back2wind. It's about what am teaches. And he's not the first am/sc student to mention it. Just read some of their posts here.

[smyrna]

I wonder why Godchild isn't making fun of Joseph Trainor's (author of the one of the articles she's posting at the Religious Cults and Sects » Soldiers of the Cross thread)interest in UFOs?

Especially since he thinks the Nazis were in contact with space aliens!

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/v07/rnd0745.shtml

"NAZI UFO" PIX STARTLE UFOLOGISTS IN BRAZIL

On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, persons unknown emailed two mysterious photographs to over a hundred ufologists in Brazil. The photos claim to be "proof of an extraterrestrial presence in Hitler's Third Reich" during the 1940s.

Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah!

Hey, maybe space aliens are racists and anti-semitic!

Aha ha ha ha ha!

Hey Godchild,

Maybe the next time one of the Cultbusters writes to the ADL,they can word it like this:

Dear ADL,

I have heard from reliable sources, that the Shepherd's Chapel is affiliated with Soldiers of the Cross.

As you know, or if you would read articles by Joseph Trainor, you'll see that the Nazis were in contact with space aliens way back in the 1940's.

Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that since the Nazis were disbanded, that the neo-nazis would be the next logical choice for the aliens to contact.

So, if you are looking for those really responsible for anti-semitism, it's those creepy space aliens.

If you send one of your agents to my house, I'll show you my crop circle.

They put one in my backyard, complete with a Swastika in the middle of it, but as soon as I wrote you, they erased it.

But nothing grows where the circle was.

Anyway, it's also clear to me that Soldiers of the Cross is a neo-nazi group, which is now run by Arnold Murray, and their propaganda is being disseminated through the Shepherd's Chapel TV program.

So that's who the aliens are working through now, I thought you'd like to know.

Sincerely,

Zarquan

Aha ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Godchild laughs and insinuates anyone who believes in UFOs are crazy, but she sure is quick to quote
a UFO "researcher" for "reliable" information!

But that worked out for us once again. Thanks to Godchild's missing this quote in the articles she's posting, we found out that Oliver Goff, LEFT the CI movement before he died!

"Indeed, this difficulty is compounded by Goff's rigorous separation of his identity as an Identity minister"

Yes, before he died, he worked very hard to shake that part of his reputation. He also moved away from his communist leanings as well.

Oliver Goff, may you rest in peace.

Godchild, there is no rest for the wicked.

Ah ah ah ah ah ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stage_director]

QUOTE
And he's not the first am/sc student to mention it. Just read some of their posts here.
END QUOTE

Yeah, I know. I've seen many discussions about God's spaceship.

Smyrna, you don't know what you're talking about. Goff never left CI.

[smyrna]

Your comment may have held weight against the impartial, unbiased testimony of the writer of that article, which Godchild posted from this website:

www.cesnur.org/2005/brainwash_13.htm (http://www.cesnur.org/2005/brainwash_13.htm)

IF you had any proof to refute it.

However, since there are posted here many references to the detailed list of allegations you have never bothered to prove, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Better get busy with the next batch of letters to the ADL, because you are just wasting your time here.

If you people were actually serious about getting your case heard, the FIRST place anyone would go that had any common sense would be to a credible organization, not some inconspicuous website forum out of the millions on the web.

You say you've been sitting on that pile of garbage you call evidence for how long?

Never sent it to the ADL, NAACP, media, etc.?

That's because it's all BS, which really shouldn't have stopped you at least as far as the media is concerned. They love to tear down people, even if most of what they say isn't even true.

Don't give me that lawsuit stuff, because that rarely happens.

Next time you go to the grocery store, look at the rack of tabloids. Of course they are like reading your posts here or Cultbuster's forums, but my point is that they'll print just about anything about anyone.

Wouldn't you be proud to wave around a copy of the Enquirer, with references to your silly accusations, especially the grove worshiping?

Until you realize that no one knows you.

Or, how about the archeology trips where they all came back "tipsy" as you alleged, but carefully made sure you didn't mention any names, just like your allegation that one of Pastor Murray's sons was a drunk yet never named which one.

You stop just short of saying enough to save yourself from being held liable for slander, and I'm sure if anyone would ever question you, like a lawyer, it would probably sound like this:

"Me? Oh, well, I was just joking. It's just a goofy Internet forum. Who takes any of those seriously?"

Sneaky, slimy, pathetic rumor mongers and liars with NO credibility.

That has been proven, your chronic lying includes denying that. It doesn't matter, all that stuff is getting placed on my website, every little detail, and as always the reader will decide.

You know I've busted you lying, I never expected you to admit it under any circumstances, but that's quite alright, the website will show the lies quite clearly. Times, dates, direct links to the comments, the whole shahbang.

And I'm going to relish every minute of it, as a matter of fact I did a little posting to the site this morning.

Almost five thousand hits, and growing. Wait until I really get to promoting it.

[oneway]

"And I'm going to relish every minute of it, as a matter of fact I did a little posting to the site
this morning.

Almost five thousand hits, and growing. Wait until I really get to promoting it."


smyrna, I truly wish you well with your website, even if some of it is at my expense.
I really do feel that you scers at many times have been treated very unfairly by others, including by me.
I realize that this a cult awareness forum, but I would have been content to just have studied scriptures with you all. But it just couldn't work. I wasn't willing to accept many of the sc's interpretations, and the sc weren't willing to accept many of mine. There was no way for any of us to learn or expand our knowledge, considering the circumstances.
I'm not the depressive type, but I went to bed last night feeling depressed. I still feel a little depressed. I guess I just feel saddened that we, or at least I, have infringed on your rights to believe as you wish, whether I agree with your beliefs or not. For that I am truly sorry. But what is done, is done, no taking any of it back now. It's already written in history and recorded by God.

[stage_director]

Smyrna needs his website since he has neither truth, nor a righteous cause on his side. As far as I'm concerned the more time spent over there is the less time he has to manipulate and warp the identity of God elsewhere. I seriously doubt he has 5000 hits from anyone but himself mainly. Here's to hoping all the trolls in the world can't get enough of the place ...

Oneway, a few times I've said some things when I'm sure I should have kept my mouth shut (not the above) ... but I don't regret my stand, nor am I guilty of dehumanizing the Shep Chap'lers. While there are types within the church (steel draws steel), and many who are arrogant and harsh, there are some decent people there, too. They don't approve of the shenanigans of their colleagues" here, either, I'm pretty sure.

One of my best friends in this world was a long time Shepherd's Chapel student. They didn't suddenly go from "evil troll" to "good guy" because they decided it wasn't a true ministry of God, any more than Paul of Oracles of God was some awful person ... They honestly didn't see the racist aspects back then, their focus was elsewhere ... on Christ, as a matter of fact.

My friend, along with many others, departed that ministry when it became clear there was little Christ in the equation ... only lip service to him. That made them look more closely at what else was wrong and examine things they hadn't paid much attention to.

I agree that some students have been treated unfairly, not given a chance. Sadly, it's people like Smyrna that create the stereotype of the mean, hostile Shep Chap student and cause others to be treated like pariahs.

Someone I know engaged in some conversations with William Alnor of CARM or CRI (can't remember which one) several years ago. He told her that initially he simply disagreed with some doctrinal points with Murray. It was the rabid reaction of students that raised the serious alarm bell for him. The vicious and hostile email he received from student "representatives" of the organization made him say, "What the hell tree did this fruit fall from!!??" So he went to look.

And now, once again ... Smyrna is the squeaky wheel that's going to get SC a lube job.

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"smyrna, I truly wish you well with your website, even if some of it is at my expense. (Oneway, 08/29/07)
*********************************************** ***

Oneway, why is it always "I", "ME", and "MY" with you? I have seen Smyrna's website and didn't see any suggestion whatsoever of you there. Unless of coarse, you identify strongly with the Three Stooges.

By the way Smyrna, absolutely hysterical! My husband laughed heartily too.

AviYAH

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Oneway, why is it always "I", "ME", and "MY" with you?
END QUOTE

Abi, translated: "Oneway, it ticks me off big time when you "detractors" demonstrate your decency because that interferes with the self-justification I've manufactured whereby I can hate you while calling myself a Christian. Why, I speak to you people through clenched teeth so often ... my molars are wearing down!"

[aviyah]

Rage Director,

There you go again...translating. Need I remind you, translating is not your strong suit? You get it wrong every time.

I was not commenting either way on Oneway's decency or lack there of. I was simply pointing out that Oneway's posts always seem to reflect a preoccupation with himself.

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

[aviyah]

Hey Rage! I have recently learned what Abbi means in Irish Gaelic.

It means loved by Father! Not surprising at all when you consider that the Gaelic language was used by the Northern House of Israel which migrated to Europe. It's pretty darn similar to the Hebrew Abiyah, Avia, and Aviya which all mean my Father is Yah.


See you are decent after all...even if you didn't intend to be.

Ah Father is so very very good!

I know. I understand we will now have to endure your come back where you will assume the role of all knowing translator and enlighten us all as to the true meaning (which, by the way, will mean exactly the same thing in other words).

Well, do what you have to do. Do what you do best, twist words and claim to have the final word on the subject.

Which reminds me...

From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
O God of Truth, deliver us.

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

[stage_director]

Hey, Abi! I have recently learned what "abi" means in Yiddish ...

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/triangle_right.gif It means IF ONLY
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

QUOTE
I understand we will now have to endure your come back where you will assume the role of all knowing translator and enlighten us all
END QUOTE

Well ... not ALL knowing, but ... anything to help out ;-)
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/proud.gif

[smyrna]

"Smyrna needs his website since he has neither truth, nor a righteous cause on his side. As far as I'm concerned the more time spent over there is the less time he has to manipulate and warp the identity of God elsewhere. I seriously doubt he has 5000 hits from anyone but himself mainly. Here's to hoping all the trolls in the world can't get enough of the place" ...

Translation:This guy is really getting me p'off.

"Someone I know engaged in some conversations with William Alnor of CARM or CRI (can't remember which one) several years ago."

Smyrna: Always with the hearsay.

"He told her that initially he simply disagreed with some doctrinal points with Murray."

Smyrna; one of the features on my site shows lies, not "differences" that Alnor placed on his sites with the SC's Answer to Critics.

Check it out!
http://scripturetruth.homestead.com/lies.html

Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!

[stage_director]

QUOTE
"Smyrna needs his website since he has neither truth, nor a righteous cause on his side. As far as I'm concerned the more time spent over there is the less time he has to manipulate and warp the identity of God elsewhere. I seriously doubt he has 5000 hits from anyone but himself mainly. Here's to hoping all the trolls in the world can't get enough of the place" ...

Translation:This guy is really getting me p'off.
END QUOTE

lol I love how you always try to imitate me. Well, that IS the sincerest form of flattery, so ... Carry on!

[aviyah]

Rage Director,

Any thoughts on why Yiddish is so drastically different than ancient original Hebrew?

[oneway]

"I was not commenting either way on Oneway's decency or lack there of. I was simply
pointing out that Oneway's posts always seem to reflect a preoccupation with himself."


aviyah, I have a simple reason for that. I'm only responsible for my own actions, not sd's, not godchild's, not franklin's, etc. I don't feel too depressed anymore after reading what sd just posted at CB in the SC thread. I never considered the children that are being taught to hate a whole nation of Jews. You all do have children, right?
Thanks, sd, for really hitting home with that last post at CB, it was really an eye opener. I'm not going to lie about it, I have mixed feelings about these scers as individuals, even smyrna and watchman, but I'm pretty well tuned to what they're teaching, that they call truth from the bible, and most of it aint good or anywhere near the truth.

[lutheratx]

Ezekiel 37:16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: Then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:"

On the first stick, Ezekiel wrote the name of Judah, and it will represent all those who call themselves "Jews". It doesn't matter if they have Jewish blood or not, as long as they consider themselves of Judah. These people include those people of the tribes of Benjamin, and Judah, as well as part of the Levitical priesthood.

The whole "House of Israel", are all the Christian nations around the world. The English People are the offspring of the tribe of Ephraim, in large part. However, this second stick represents all the House of Israel that were divorced by God, and brought back as the "sons of the Living God".

By using the two sticks, God is symbolizing the division between Israel, and Judah, or in terms of today; Christian and Jew.

Ezekiel 37:17 "And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand."

This joining of the two sticks will not happen until the first day of the Millennium age, when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.

Roger Christopherson http://www.theseason.org/plough.htm

Wait if I being taught to hate the Jew then why am I being taught that we will be joined together again. Once again you guys lie whether you know it or not.

You guys are heros in your minds and satan will keep telling you that too.

2nd Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

[oneway]

"Wait if I being taught to hate the Jew then why am I being taught that we will be joined
together again. Once again you guys lie whether you know it or not."

luther, unless I am just completely misunderstanding all of this, I believe AM teaches
that most of the Jews that are now in Israel, are not really Jews but are kenites pretending to be Jews. Don't you get it? If these people really are Jews and not kenites pretending to be Jews, then you are hating real Jews because you are falsely accusing them of being kenites, the spawns of satan. How much of a CLEARER picture do you require?

[lutheratx]

No you are getting it wrong Oneway.

Roger Christopherson

Jeremiah 24:2 "One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad."

When you go into the horticulture of the figs, we are talking about goat figs here. The male tree. We know that this tree was set out in the year 1948 when Judah only returned to Jerusalem to establish the tiny nation of Israel. And with them came the very good figs, and the very bad figs

He later goes on to say.

Jeremiah 24:6 "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."

When this has taken place, and both fig baskets have returned to Jerusalem, as well as the events listed in Matthew 24, and Mark 13. These are the events which are the seven seals of Revelation and the seven trumpets that sound their taking place, God is saying that then He will establish them forever. Friend, this has to do with the end times, and our generation is the generation that will live to see it all come to pass. That part of our true brother Judah will always be there, and they will never be moved from that location in the nation of Israel, as well as Jerusalem

Roger Christopherson http://www.theseason.org/plough.htm

I keep bringing up Roger because he is a elder in the church and you can read everything he has written on line. You see here he says the true brother Judah is the good figs that went into Israel in 1948 and the will be there for eternity.

You are a false witness, this is a very severe sin. I have never heard that most Jews are kenites anywhere. Here is an elder saying the good figs are in Israel in the end times. This is proof that you do not know what you are talking about.

How much of a CLEARER picture do you require?

[stage_director]

Oh puhlease ... Shepherd's Chapel teaches that "real Judah" has become Christianized, and it even points to the royal house of the English monarchy as the example. It teaches that all who practice Judaism, observe Purim and are not Christian are the offspring of Satan. This "Why, we're not saying Jews are Satanic, We're saying JEWS are Satanic" is a doubletalk and trying to fly under the radar.

[oneway]

"You are a false witness, this is a very severe sin. I have never heard that most Jews are
kenites anywhere. Here is an elder saying the good figs are in Israel in the end times. This is
proof that you do not know what you are talking about."

luther, I'm only telling you what I gather from AM's teachings that have been exposed all over these topics, mostly by the scers themselves. I don't know anything about this Roger Christopherson, perhaps I should go read what he has posted.
But I did get a very vivid picture via watchman's interpretations, to pretty much understand what AM was really implying with his teachings. And of course I also credit sd and godchild, among others, but you don't like to hear that.
How is one to trust any of you scers? You all can't properly interp a simple plain as day verse such as Gen 4:1. But let's not get back into
circular arguing over this verse. Plain and simple..the sc interpretation of Gen 4:1 is clearly in error here, no doubts whatsoever.
Luther, until you can come to terms that Cain was Adam's son, none of us are ever going to take much of your theology seriously. I'm all for studying, learning and expanding knowledge, but I will not do it in a theme that the bible is clearly not written in.

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"Oh puhlease ... Shepherd's Chapel teaches that "real Judah" has become Christianized" (Rage Director, 08/30/07)
*********************************************** ***

This is a lie and you know you are lying Rage Director.

Shepherd's Chapel teaches that Judah are the Jews, many of which have returned to modern Israel.

Shepherd's Chapel teaches that the Northern House of Israel are the Christian nations of Western Europe, Canada, and the United States.

The Bible says that when the nation of Israel split into two separate kingdoms, the Northern kingdom became the House of Israel and the Southern kingdom became Judah. Biblical prophecy in Ezekiel says that David (his offspring) shall rule over the House of Israel until the second coming of Christ. It does NOT say the Throne of David will rule over all twelve tribes, including the separate nation of Judah.

God's Word says at the time when the Jews came back from Babylon that He would break the "brotherhood between Judah and Israel" (Zechariah 11:14)

God tells us in (Isaiah 11:13) "Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim". Clearly the time setting of this prophesy is at the second coming of Christ. Since the time setting is at the second coming, this prophecy actually shows that at the time just before the second coming, Judah and Israel are SEPARATE NATIONS AND NOT ONE NATION CALLED THE JEWS IN PALESTINE.

Stop lying about what Shepherd's Chapel teaches Rage Director. You know very well that SC does NOT teach that the Jews have become Christianized.

Stop lying.

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

[aviyah]

Father's 9th Commandment:

Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

Stop lying Rage Director.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
This is a lie and you know you are lying Rage Director.

Shepherd's Chapel teaches that Judah are the Jews, many of which have returned to modern Israel.
END QUOTE

Woman, are you studying with Shepherd's Chapel run by Arnold Murray of Gravette, Arkansas ... or some other church?? This Arnold Murray teaches that the word "Jew" in the bible refers to "Kenites" and that most of what formed the current nation of Israel is Kenites.

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"luther, unless I am just completely misunderstanding all of this, I believe AM teaches
that most of the Jews that are now in Israel, are not really Jews but are kenites pretending to be Jews. Don't you get it? If these people really are Jews and not kenites pretending to be Jews, then you are hating real Jews because you are falsely accusing them of being kenites, the spawns of satan. How much of a CLEARER picture do you require?" (Oneway, 08/30/07)
*********************************************** ***

You ARE completely misunderstanding all of this Oneway. Pastor Murray DOES NOT teach that most of the Jews in Israel are Kenites. You would know that if you based your opinion on things AM actually says rather than basing it on what Shepherd's Chapel haters "say" AM says. Nor should you consider anything said by a SC student to be 100% accurate. Although Watchman often has valid points, not one SC student should be considered a third party spokesman for what is taught at SC.

How can you possibly claim to be making up your own mind when admittedly, you are reaching conclusions based on things you have read here? That doesn't make any sense at all. This is not a difficult concept. It's just like Green Eggs and Ham, Sam I Am.

For the umpteenth time, we SC students do not hate Jews. We know they are our brethren. We do not believe we are the Jews. We know we are the House of Israel and they are the House of Judah. We do not believe all Jews are Kenites, just a very small few.

Do you know there is an Orthodox Judaism and a Conservative Judaism. Get your hands on a copy of the History Channel's "History of God". You will see what I'm talking about. Or do a search on the two. There is a wealth of information on the subject.

The Orthodox Jews are those which Christianity supports, the Zionists. Did you see God's Warriors on CNN. More and more Christians are supporting the Jews of Israel. Even Christians who do not recognize themselves as the offspring of Ephraim support Israel because they know of the prophesy that Messiah will return when Israel becomes a nation again. The only problem with this logic is that Israel became a nation in 1948. Many Christians except the notion that Jews are all that are left of the twelve tribes and overlook the fact that one nation (modern Israel) cannot possibly fulfill the prophesy of two nations joining back together to become one.

The Jews believe the Messiah will come when all the Jews come back to the Holy land. The only problem with this is, if Father had to wait on humanity to do the right thing it would never come to fruition. I believe mankind is subject to God's itinerary, not He ours. Nor is the number of the Judahites alone innumerable, as Father's Word foretells.

AviYAH

[oneway]

"You ARE completely misunderstanding all of this Oneway. Pastor Murray DOES NOT teach
that most of the Jews in Israel are Kenites. You would know that if you based your opinion
on things AM actually says rather than basing it on what Shepherd's Chapel haters "say" AM
says. Nor should you consider anything said by a SC student to be 100% accurate. Although
Watchman often has valid points, not one SC student should be considered a third party
spokesman for what is taught at SC.

How can you possibly claim to be making up your own mind when admittedly, you are
reaching conclusions based on things you have read here? That doesn't make any sense at
all. This is not a difficult concept. It's just like Green Eggs and Ham, Sam I Am."


aviyah, here are 2 posts that sort of helped me with my descision. So am I still misunderstang what AM is teaching? And no, I didn't base my conclusions on Dr. Seuss, lol, even tho I think Dr. Suess makes more sense than some of the stuff I read around here, including my own stuff, lol.
Either watchman is lying or yaakov2 is lying or AM is lying about what's being taught. So, whichone is not being truthful?


watchman_2
Intermediate Member
Username: watchman_2

Post Number: 372
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From:
66.92.33.240
Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:15 pm:



In a recording of PM answering questions regarding whom are Kenites, PM identifies three
groups:

1. Khazars
2. Ashkenazai Jews
3. Sephardic Jews

To listen to the recording, go to

http://www.jacobisrael.us/JudahisGermany.ra





yaakov2
Intermediate Member
Username: yaakov2

Post Number: 194
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From:
66.192.99.67
Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 3:21 pm:



Watchman

Ashkenazai and Sephardic are the two types of modern day Jews. I personally am
Ashkenazai.

Thank you for directly clearing the air that your pastor considers all Jews to be Kenites.

(Message edited by oneway on August 30, 2007)

[aviyah]

Oneway,

When I click on the link you provided I get, "The webpage cannot be found."

I have never heard AM say specifically which Jews he believes to be Kenites. I have heard him say specifically that the Kenites called their king Chagan. It took me 2 months or so to figure out independently that this was the Mongol/Turk Hordes who eventually became known as the Khazars.

Again, here we are discussing the EAST. EAST of Eden. The Asia which worships and claim descension from the dragon. Those Asian Jews which crucified Christ and persecuted the Apostles relentlessly. The East of Europe which happened to be the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire which tried to wipe out Christianity all together. The Roman Empire which established the "church" which to this day would like to keep the Word of God from the people. The "church" which claims you must go through their priests to receive redemption from sin. The "church" which apparently is above the law and not subject to the law of the land which puts pedofiles behind bars. The "church" which pays for the sins of its priests with tithes from its congregation. The "church" which contains wooden and stone idols at its alters for worship, but gets around it by calling them raised reliefs rather than graven images. The "church" which replaced our Holiest day of Passover with a celebration of Ishtar, the Babylonian sister goddess of the Eastern god Ba'al.

Easter Europe today, the remnant of the old Roman Empire, is attempting to establish a one world government. Hmm. Stick your head in the sand if you want folks. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

If AM ever said that the Kenites were among the Ashkenazai Jews, can you grasp the idea that this does not mean each and every Ashkenazai Jew are suspect but that this means a small few of this group are Kenites. Can you wrap your mind around the notion that the term Jew no longer refers to one's genealogy but rather their religious or cultural identity?

When Yaakov says all Jews are Ashkenazai, I realize he is stretching the truth.

When Watchman says all Ashkenazai Jews are Kenites, I personally feel he is mistaken. Or maybe he too meant that there are "some" Kenites among the Ashkenazai Jews.

All I'm saying is, there can be no objectivity in an opinion that is based on other people's opinions. That's an oxymoron.

AviYAH

[stage_director]

QUOTE
When Yaakov says all Jews are Ashkenazai, I realize he is stretching the truth.
END QUOTE

I believe you're the one "stretching" the truth since Oneway just quoted Yaakov as saying, "Ashkenazai and Sephardic are the two types of modern day Jews."

QUOTE
All I'm saying is, there can be no objectivity in an opinion that is based on other people's opinions. That's an oxymoron.
END QUOTE

Actually, that's not what an oxymoron is. "Wireless cable" or "random pattern" are oxymorons. What you've expressed is an irony. And it's even more ironic when spoken by a Shepherd's Chapel student who refuses to see what's right in front of her face when it contradicts her pastor's "opinions."

[oneway]

"All I'm saying is, there can be no objectivity in an opinion that is based on other people's
opinions."

aviyah, don't you base your whole theology on the fact that you pretty much trust AM's opinions of Scriptures to be the correct ones?
I can only thank God that I am not wholly influenced by any denom, organization, or any man anymore. This is bondage. I broke free of that some years ago. Nothing wrong with being taught by others. But we HAVE to, it's our duty, no matter how highly we think of our pastor or of our church, to check things out in the Word of God for ourselves. This we have to do and we have to be completely unbiased when doing so, regardless of what we've been taught over the years. Churches, and pastors, and teachers can simply be wrong at times, in spite of popular opinion, such as about pre-trib rapture, everlasting torment, etc, and unpopular opin, such as, prev earth age, Cain not really Adam's son, etc. The Word of God can't be and never is wrong. Only mis-interpretations can ever be wrong. It takes courage and a special kind of person to search out the truths for themselves, no matter what they've been told or taught or how much they think they already know and think they understand. In other words, a peron that is not full of pride, thinking he/she has all the right answers because their church or pastor or teacher told them so.
(Message edited by oneway on August 31, 2007)

(Message edited by oneway on August 31, 2007)

(Message edited by oneway on August 31, 2007)

[oneway]

"When I click on the link you provided I get, "The webpage cannot be found."

aviyah, actually that link I provided was the link watchman provided in his post. But I did find this link and not sure if it works tho, since I don't have Real Audio installed.

http://christianparty.net/JudahisGermany.ra

[lutheratx]

Oneway you trust S_D right?

S_D wrote: Roger's simply another PM parrot who pretty much picked up where Lance dropped off. Most SC students want a "lesser god" that they can touch and write to and interact with on a more personal level. Plus, people like Roger or Nick Goggin (and previously Lance) go more into detail on the subjects PM steers clear of publicly.

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&amp;post=439672#POST439672

She even goes on to say he is even more openly racist and antisemitic. So she says he mimics Murray, virtually in her own words. You have said, "I don't know anything about this Roger Christopherson, perhaps I should go read what he has posted." Well he is posting things that are the exact opposite of what S_D is saying. She says we are Jew haters, do I have to remind you he says it will be a great day when Judah and Israel come back together when teaching Ezekiel 37, here is some more of our teachings below written by Roger.


Exodus 6:25 "And Eleazar Aaron's son took him one of the daughters of Pitiel to wife; and she bare him Phinehas: these are the heads of the fathers of the Levites according to their families."

So God has identified each of those Levite men that Moses was to give the charge over, from verse 13. Again, when we study the lineage of Mary from Luke 3:23-38, we see that lineage also our Jesus Christ. We know that Mary was a cousin to Elizabeth, and in that Elizabeth was from the tribe of Levi, Mary was also. Jesus' father was Almighty God, and this made Jesus the Melchisedec, the priest of the Most High God, however through Mary's father, came the king line of <font size="+1"><u>Judah</u></font>. The purpose of these names being given to us in His Word, is that we can follow the marriage between the king lines and the priest line. They come to a point in the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Roger Christopherson http://www.theseason.org/plough.htm

Roger says Christ was a Jew well partly. There is no since in what S_D is saying that we only teach christian Jews are not kenites.

Here is Roger proving that wrong again in Ezekiel 37

"This joining of the two sticks will not happen until the first day of the Millennium age, when our Lord Jesus Christ returns."

Meaning Judah is not Christian yet otherwise they would already be joined with the rest of Israel.

Oneway my days of trying to teach you are long gone I realise you don't want anything I offer. I am just showing your credibility as some one that is not informed enough or by the right people to tell me what my church believes. I think I probably know it better than all the critics seeing how I study with Murray or Roger almost daily. They keep informing me on stuff that is easy to disprove thinking they are teaching me something I don't know about Murray. When asked for proof to me it has always fallen short of the truth.

You also said," I'm all for studying, learning and expanding knowledge, but I will not do it in a theme that the bible is clearly not written in."

This shows you level of understanding I hate to say it. Your version of the bible must not have all the times Christ had conflicts with the Jews, example the money changers in the temple, the Jews questioning about healing on the sabbath, not cleaning before meals, and there are plenty others.

Jesus is going to be so proud of you standing up for the ones who harassed him.

[stage_director]

Luther, Shepherd's Chapel teaches there are Jews ... and then there is Judah. The "Jews" are supposedly Kenites. You guys are using doubletalk. No one says Murray or Roger claim Judah to be a Kenite tribe, only those who call themselves Jews ... which would be the inhabitants of the current country of Israel and those who claim ties to that nation.

[lutheratx]

Roger :This joining of the two sticks will not happen until the first day of the Millennium age, when our Lord Jesus Christ returns."

Luther says: Meaning Judah is not Christian yet otherwise they would already be joined with the rest of Israel.

How are you missing this this is proof you just lied!!!!!!!!!!!! This says that they will not be serving Christ until the Millennial Temple and they will not as a group do it before then.

[lutheratx]

"On the first stick, Ezekiel wrote the name of Judah, and it will represent all those who call themselves "Jews". It doesn't matter if they have Jewish blood or not, as long as they consider themselves of Judah. These people include those people of the tribes of Benjamin, and Judah, as well as part of the Levitical priesthood."

Roger Christopherson

If you quit now I'll know you were just mistaken, if you don't I know you are a liar.

I'm starting to see why the others became so defensive with you. You dont care when something has been proven if it does not suite your hatred of Arnold Murray.

[stage_director]

Here ya go, Luther ...

"When we talk about a Jew, are we talking about Brother Judah or Benjamin here? No, we are talking about those men who came to Judah many centuries ago, and assumed the role and duties of the Levitical priesthood. The Levites departed their posts, and these Kenites substituted their laws and traditions for the The Commandments of God, the teachings of Moses and the prophets. These are the same people that faced John the Baptist in Matthew 3:7-10, and he called those Pharisees and Sadducees for what they were, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come." - Roger Christopherson

[stage_director]

Here's more ...

Re: Protocols of Zion

""The symbolic Snake of Judaism" was adopted and used in opening Protocols III Epiloge to the 1905 Edition of the Protocols Nilus. The use of this snake symbol dates way back to the time of Solomon, when the Kenites were brought in to build the Temple , and help with supplies. "These learned men decided by peaceful means to conquer the world for Zion with the slyness of the Symbolic Snake, who’s head was to represent those who have been initiated into the plans of the Jewish Kenite administration. The body of the Snake to represent the Jewish people, " of course this is strictly in reference to Kenites at this time, FOR THE TERM "JEW" SIMPLY WAS NOT USED UNTIL THE TIME OF THE BABYLONION CAPTIVITY SOME FOUR HUNDRED YEARS LATER." - Roger Christopherson

[stage_director]

How remiss of me ... Why don't I just post the link so people can read for themselves how the Israelis are ruining the world, how the Kenite Protocols of Zion are the agenda of the Jews, et cetera, et cetera ...

http://www.theseason.org/topical/4_hidden_dynasties.htm

[stage_director]

One problem with Shep Chap and it's "voices of authority" is that the politically correct things ARE said ... But they are contradicted elsewhere. Just enough is said to make the defense "We're not racist. We LOVE Jews." ... but twenty other places something is said that contradicts that being the real case. You guys are quite skilled at flying under the radar.

I'm not a liar, Luther. You're either naive, in denial or an outright liar yourself. I hope it's the first one. People can always become wised up to a situation.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
I'm starting to see why the others became so defensive with you. You dont care when something has been proven if it does not suite your hatred of Arnold Murray.
END QUOTE

lol Defensive, huh? Don't know that I've heard assault called that before. This is how I feel about it, Luther ...

You don't care when something I say has been proven if it does not suite your dependance on Arnold Murray for your spiritual well being. In other words your mind is totally closed to anything that upsets or contradicts the perception you have of this man.

I don't think you're a bad person, Luther. I wish you could examine the evidence without preconceived opinions. Yes, I know you will say you do, and maybe even you really believe that. But you guys are mesmerized ... it's apparent in every post.

[lutheratx]

When we talk about a Jew, are we talking about Brother Judah or Benjamin <u>here</u>?

In another words here in this lecture over hidden dynasties.

See we don't blaim Judah thanks for proving that. These secret aggendas are not of Judah, these four hidded dynasties.

He even goes on to say, "Remember that these Jews had taken control over the house of Judah , and our Lord was from the tribe of Judah , from the land these Kenite Jews came from."

Now we are getting the picture he is absolutely talking about the man that will always lead the Jew and his inner circle. So there leadership is Kenite there hebrew text is re written by there leadership and they may possibly drink of that cup of wrath right along with there leaders. However they dust thereselves off after a brutal death (the Christian's, who overcame, flesh melts away in pleasure) and realise that the Christ men were right. They rejoin there brothers how do you get that we dont like Judah and Benjamin.

"within the word Jew, are both the two tribes of true Israel; Judah, and Benjamin"

He says this in this same lecture, when are you going to get it Judah primarily is not christian, but we do not want to lose Judah we want to lose the deception over Judah.

So yes when he talks about the Jew in a negative manner he is refering to the kenite.

Hey you keep supporting a religion that has removed Christ I'm sure the LORD is tickled pink by it. Virtually you are saying We got to give Judah all the rights and keep none for ourselves. Sure its fine when they say your not thinking clearly when you follow Christ. We cant say nothing back though because Christ wants them to be the boss of what is said. We have no rights as Christians.

Take a bow S_D you audience is impressed.

I have given you proof how we feel about brother Judah and lets not forget Benjamin. We love them even though they are Jew.

Look I kind of get were you are coming from now you just don't really get that the religions shouldn't be peaceful it is a war that is waging. You don't want any part of that don't worry I'll take the persecution, because the only problem you face is when you are doing the persecution.

Really saying we say Judah isn't mixed in with the Jews, you really haven't watched the hour long bible study. This is basic stuff.

[lutheratx]

It is funny to me that you thought you had the victory in your close, come on dont you think with the hours I study that I would have a rebutal.

This is a fight here on Factnet and you guys are turning me into a seasoned Warrior.

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"aviyah, don't you base your whole theology on the fact that you pretty much trust AM's opinions of Scriptures to be the correct ones?
I can only thank God that I am not wholly influenced by any denom, organization, or any man anymore. This is bondage. I broke free of that some years ago. Nothing wrong with being taught by others. But we HAVE to, it's our duty, no matter how highly we think of our pastor or of our church, to check things out in the Word of God for ourselves. This we have to do and we have to be completely unbiased when doing so, regardless of what we've been taught over the years." (Oneway, 08/31/07)
*********************************************** ***

Spoken like a true Shepherd's Chapel student! Spoken like AM himself!

Oneway,

I have attended church in some form or other since I was in my mother's womb. My uncles are Preachers and Missionaries. By most people's standards, the family I come from would be considered religious fanatics. I am enrolled at an Evangelical University. I am fairly literate. Believe it or not, I am competently able to read the Scriptures independently from SC.

So am I basing my whole concept of theology on AM's opinions. NO! Aren't you basing your whole theology on the opinions of some flakes you know nothing about other than what you have read from them on Factnet?

As stated before, it doesn't matter if you don't listen to Shepherd's Chapel. Personally, I don't think you're doing yourself any favours by believing that you are going to find Scriptural clarity here at Factnet, but that's your business.

My point is, by your own admission, most of what you know about SC comes from what you have read here. If SC does not suit you, OK. But why are you gleefully parroting the words of others which are speaking lies about that which is taught from SC? Why can't you just live and let live?

Do you think you are doing God's work? I really do not.

AviYAH

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"Thank you for directly clearing the air that your pastor considers "all" Jews to be Kenites." (Yaakov, a long time ago)
*********************************************** ***

Shut your pie hole Rage!

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Hey you keep supporting a religion that has removed Christ
END QUOTE

You wrong about that, Luther. There is no mediator between myself and God EXCEPT Christ. See, the thing is ... I don't support religion, period. That's the words and beliefs of men. God is a reality, not a denomination or a doctrine. What is it you think my religion is, Luther, and on what basis do you assume I've removed Christ from it?

QUOTE
Virtually you are saying We got to give Judah all the rights and keep none for ourselves.
END QUOTE

I don't know about you, but in my world our inheritance is Christ. Does it get any better than that? Who is it I'm suppose to prove that to? It's between me and God.

QUOTE
We cant say nothing back though because Christ wants them to be the boss of what is said. We have no rights as Christians.
END QUOTE

Those are your words, not mine. I would LOVE to be able to have an intelligent discussion with Yaakov about why Christ is very real to me. and any misconceptions he may have about Christianity because of listening to too many Christians who claim to speak for it and God when they don't. But you know what would happen? People like your buddy Smyrna would turn it into a heckling session.

QUOTE
I have given you proof how we feel about brother Judah and lets not forget Benjamin. We love them even though they are Jew.
END QUOTE

"Brother Judah" inhabits the country of Israel, in large part. Is this whom you refer to?

QUOTE
you just don't really get that the religions shouldn't be peaceful it is a war that is waging.
END QUOTE

You assume I think Christ came to bring peace on earth? Christ came to bring peace between God and man, to reconcile us to God. Nevertheless, we are suppose to have an attitude of peace. (I'm still working on it) Still, you know, Luther ... the opposite of love is not hate. It's apathy. When you don't care if others are reconciled to God.

QUOTE
Really saying we say Judah isn't mixed in with the Jews, you really haven't watched the hour long bible study. This is basic stuff.
END QUOTE

Over the years I've probably seen it a thousand times. I've got a HUGE library of audios going back to the early 1980s through the present and more transcripts than you can shake a stick at. There is no doubt in my mind that while Murray gives lip service to "our brother Judah" he believes almost everyone who practices Judaism, celebrates Purim and doesn't "spit" on the Talmud is the literal seedline of Satan.

QUOTE
It is funny to me that you thought you had the victory in your close, come on dont you think with the hours I study that I would have a rebutal.
END QUOTE

Luther, I learned a long time ago to take a firm stance with Shepherd's Chapel students because they fight dirty. Hence my tone. Don't confuse that with me ever thinking they don't want the last word. ;-)

I'm sorry you're turning into a seasoned warrior. I suppose now you'll pick up that mean edge you didn't have before? Been there, seen that. Do yourself and God a favor and don't let a battle over a mere man turn you into something you aren't. Contrary to what you may think, I'm not in it for the argument ... and I don't despise you guys or think you're the scum of the earth, although, admittedly ... there's a couple I don't like very much. lol

[stage_director]

QUOTE
I am fairly literate.

Shut your pie hole Rage!
END QUOTE

PMS?

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"Actually, that's not what an oxymoron is." (Rage Director, 09/01/07)
*********************************************** ***

Now who's splitting hairs?

Oh excuse me Oneway...I stand corrected. English 101 is now in session.

Your thoughts are contradictory to one another Oneway.

AviYAH

[lutheratx]

I notice you totally dropped the argument about Roger saying all Jews are kenites you just decided to go after the stuff where I said you are trying to eliminate my rights of standing for the true holy text, and give it to Judah. If they spoke out, which they do, your lips are sealed.

You know if anyone wants to prove you did not defend Christ when Yaakov said horrible things about Christ they need to look no further than Kenite Korner.

"I don't know about you, but in my world our inheritance is Christ."

You are going the long route. You inheritance will not exactly be Christ either with the way you are going. You might be in the eternity but it will be the election that were fighting for God in the first earth age and can't help but stand for Him and his doctrine now that will inherit Christ.

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

If a Jew says something poorly about Christ that would be a good time for that sword of truth. You sat on your hands.

I've seen atheist here say bad things about Christ and nothing, until we mention it you guys do nothing. Then we get a couple of comments and it stops because a house can not stand divided, you want peace with them. Every one knows who you target. You want peace with the Jew. You want peace with the Muslim. The only peace that is possible is when this flesh is dissolved. Franklin stood up against the atheist but if he said something to Yaakov it didn't last long, and then said Yaakov is more pleasing to Christ than me.

Your sorry to see that I will stand up for my beliefs, a man must stand for something, or be no man.

" Do yourself and God a favor and don't let a battle over a mere man turn you into something you aren't."

I see you don't realise this is doctrinal because we are not saying how great Murray is we are saying he teaches the truth. Nice try though, you see it is doctrinal because I have to use my bible to combat these lies spread about my doctrine of my belief. I ask God for guidance not Murray. I was lead to Murray by God God gets the credit for the teaching.

However I see that you got off subject you were saying that we call all Jews kenites. Don't worry I haven't forgot. You were trying to prove that Roger Christopherson was saying all Jews are kenites. I was proving he doesn't say that but the leadership is of the kenite, poor brother Judah and some of Benjamin and the levites don't stand a chance. They are in the belly of the beast they have been raised in it and we are from the same parents further back. My brother is Wiccan and I love him, My sister believes the rapture and I love her, I just wish that deceit would be pulled away from them, and it will be. God is trying to show us that he is good on his promises in this earth age including the millennium. He made several promises that included Judah and it will still include Judah, but Judah has been mislead, so there will be correction.

Get back on subject, you have every right to go after my credibility, but I am going to make mistakes. If I say something that damages my cause I will come back with something that strengthens it. However back to the subject.

[lutheratx]

Christ voice is the Christian people at this time

[stage_director]

QUOTE
I notice you totally dropped the argument about Roger saying all Jews are kenites
END QUOTE

lol You're kidding, right? Luther, once again ... do you read what I write before you respond to it? Shep Chap "speakers" give lip service to "our brother Judah" and supposedly differentiate between that tribe and Kenites. But then they always go on to make additional statements that make clear all Jews fall into the category of Kenites.

Tell you what, Luther ... Why don't you tell me who among those who call themselves Jews today ARE NOT Kenites.

Since Murray teaches that even a Kenite can be saved and is no longer a Kenite, but a Christian ... please come up with a group or groups who ARE NOT already Christians.

QUOTE
I've seen atheist here say bad things about Christ and nothing, until we mention it you guys do nothing.

You know if anyone wants to prove you did not defend Christ when Yaakov said horrible things about Christ they need to look no further than Kenite Korner.
END QUOTE

Apparently, you've missed a few of my posts ... Still, you all end up being so NOT Christian about it I think you actually inspire it.

Luk 12:10
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

I don't expect Yaakov is denying Christ out of maliciousness any more than Saul was. I also don't expect a Jew to pay homage to Christ. Further, I find it much more outrageous when supposed Christians walk like wolves while claiming Christ. I don't have the contempt for either Yaakov or the atheists that drips from SC lips, so why would I help you all try to verbally beat them up? Besides, you want to see them chastised by God, and I just want them to be heirs to the kingdom. Our motives are different, Luther.

I'm a lot more concerned for you students who call so many other Christians evil. (See: blaspheming Holy Spirit)

It is already established that Yaakov is a Jew and not a Christian. Am I suppose to feign shock and dismay?

QUOTE
"SD: I don't know about you, but in my world our inheritance is Christ."

Luther says: You are going the long route. You inheritance will not exactly be Christ either with the way you are going. You might be in the eternity but it will be the election that were fighting for God in the first earth age and can't help but stand for Him and his doctrine now that will inherit Christ.
END QUOTE

That's some made up wishful thinking, Luther. A tradition of man. I am saved upon Christ, not by some righteous deeds I performed in some other age. I've examined this theory backwards and forwards, and it's author is Speculation. Further, you really should be careful who you determine to be a lost soul. You don't have any say so whatsoever in those decisions ... You don't even know if some atheist or Jew here that was spoken to so nastily may be the elect of God. The day is not over.

QUOTE
I was lead to Murray by God.
END QUOTE

Is that a fact? I wonder why God would lead you to a man instead of Christ ...
.

[aviyah]

*********************************************** ***
"I'm a lot more concerned for you students who call so many other Christians evil. (See: blaspheming Holy Spirit)" (Rage Director, 09/01/07)
*********************************************** ***

You do it each and every day Rage Director. Somehow, you think it's OK when you do it. In fact we SC students wouldn't even be here arguing our case if we didn't feel an injustice was being done through the lies brought forth here.


Case in point:


*********************************************** ***
"Still, you all end up being so NOT Christian about it I think you actually inspire it." (Rage Director, 09/01/07)
*********************************************** ***

I tried to be civil with you recently Rage Director. Then you turned around and called me AntiYAH. Whether or not we agree on every issue, I guess it was too much to ask to have a civil discussion regarding Scripture without you being a puke.

In spite of what you believe, you do not have the final say on who is or is not Christian. You are not more righteous than the rest of us sinners on this forum. You do not love Father more than the rest of us.

I believe Luther meant that God led him to SC so that he would learn the Word. I believe that you know that's what he meant spin doctor.

Most of us have difficulty understanding some of the old English language of the Bible. I know I sure do. And after all, it is written that when two or more come together in His name the Spirit is present. That means that you cannot expect to understand it all on your own. Shame on you for trying to discourage Luther from learning all he can about the Bible.

Did it ever occur to you that some people may not be able to physically get to a church and SC is their only means of hearing the Word? Did it ever occur to you that maybe some folks have been made to feel unworthy of ever setting foot in a church? Yet if you had your way SC would be banned from the air waves. Well praise God that you do not have the influence to do anything except spend your days here spreading your miserable lies and biased exaggerations on the internet.

Reap what you sow, AviYAH

[stage_director]

Abi, you address me as "Rage Director" yet you're trying to be civil? lol Come on now ...

Who did I call evil, Abi? You? I think not. Did I say Luther was? No. Did I say Philip or Ter or Angie or Abiya or Ezekiel or Skooter or SCisbest was? No. I called Smyrna an evil troll. Ok, so maybe the troll part isn't true, but I didn't call him the other half lightly. He takes too much glee in his mischief. Believe me when I say it is not a word I use often to describe someone.

QUOTE
it is written that when two or more come together in His name the Spirit is present. That means that you cannot expect to understand it all on your own.
END QUOTE

Abi, those verses are talking about bringing something before God. When two are more make a petition to God truly in the name of Christ ... he is with them. One example would be intercessory prayer. Where do you get that this is about listening to Pastor Murray?

QUOTE
That means that you cannot expect to understand it all on your own.
END QUOTE

1 Jo 2:26-27
26 These [things] have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, AND YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jhn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of (by) God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The new covenant:

Jer 31:32-34
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 AND THEY SHALL TEACH NO MORE EVERY MAN HIS NEIGHBOUR, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

QUOTE
Shame on you for trying to discourage Luther from learning all he can about the Bible.
END QUOTE

That's a totally unfounded statement, Abi. Of course I think Luther should learn about the bible. But he's not. He's learning what a man thinks.

QUOTE
Did it ever occur to you that some people may not be able to physically get to a church and SC is their only means of hearing the Word?
END QUOTE

Do you hear what you're saying? If I have a bible in my lap, how can any man or any church be my only way to hear the word of God? Do you think God cannot speak to you through his word without Pastor Murray?

When the high priest read the word to the people every year ... do you think he stopped after every verse to give a caption on it, or to tell some personal story he thought related to it or to relay his opinion on the verse? You said yourself the words have the power of the Spirit behind them. Don't you trust that God can and will talk directly to you? From God to Abi? Not from God to Pastor Murray to Abi ... Don't you know that the only way you can be absolutely sure it's the truth is if it's straight from God to Abi?

I'm not knocking fellowship and church, Abi. But church is where one hears the undiluted word of God. Pastor Murray's thoughts and opinions are not in that book. They should not be in his rendering of it.
.

[lutheratx]

no you did change the subject.

Subject again please.

"I notice you totally dropped the argument about Roger saying all Jews are kenites"

You again: I don't have the contempt for either Yaakov or the atheists that drips from SC lips, so why would I help you all try to verbally beat them up?

Me: So I take the beating and don't give it back. Why is the truth called a double edged sword?

luke 12:49 <font color="ff0000">I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled?</font> 12:50 <font color="ff0000">But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! </font>12:51 <font color="ff0000">Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:</font> 12:52 <font color="ff0000">For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.</font> 12:53 <font color="ff0000">The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.</font>

Even divisions in your own household wow. It seems you are more divided with us than anybody else. We make that stand for the truth and will not allow someone to challenge our beliefs without a rebuttal. It can be something as simple as God does not exist and we will reply yes he does.

Here is Yaakov replying to S_D even though she doesn't beat him up.

stage_director

<font color="0000ff">Man as two eyes to see, two legs to transport him, toes to keep his balance, fingers to grasp, eyelashes to protect his eyes from the elements, hair to protect and keep him warm, taste buds to distinguish food from toxins, touch to differenciate hot from cold ...

Which of these things are characteristics of God? Which would be necessary for an omnipotent God?</font>

Also don’t forget baby jesus. He had poopy diapers, had to be taught to walk and talk, and had his hair and finger nails cut. Are those hair clippings divine? Did his poop stink? Is this an image of an All-Powerful G-d?

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&amp;post=414201#POST414201

So here is Yaakov poking fun at Christ addressed directly to you. Even though you are so compassionate, you also said nothing and even posted on the same thread the very same day. This is not the only things he said about Christ that were horribly ugly. I didn't see you guys give a flip about that though. Give him the rights and step my foot. So even through all your compassion you get responses like that.

Sorry I don't sit idly by.

[lutheratx]

You mentioned blaspheme the holy spirit.

To blaspheme the holy spirit is only possible when you have the spirit come over you and you denounce it. So if I was a false teacher the holy spirit would never come over me. Even then I don't believe it is even possible to blaspheme unless you are delivered to council. You truly are dropping the ball on this one.

" I am saved upon Christ"

I will not deny you are saved. I don't know that you are or I don't know that your not.

and look we do believe that in the first earth age there was those who where chosen. This doesn't make them better, they have to live the same way you do. Ultimately I don't know if I was chosen or not, but I know that I will serve in the millennial temple and this is the way to inherit Christ. Yes you might get some land and still be the eternity but I am becoming wealthy in heavenly wealth because I'm not some push over Christian. You think that we drive people away by standing up for ourselves. I say people already stand up for thereselves, or they want the power to stand up for thereselves, and Christ is all powerful and he will dwell inside you.

Why would Christ say
Luke 10:19 <font color="ff0000">Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.</font>

Sounds like we would be confronted with the enemy at times. However out comes that sword and we have the victory. You don't know it yet but SC's teachings have already defeated the
doctrine that was fed to you.

"That's a totally unfounded statement, Abi. Of course I think Luther should learn about the bible. But he's not. He's learning what a man thinks."

Thats funny it seems like I use the bible all the time in my post. I would say even more than you.

" I wonder why God would lead you to a man instead of Christ"

Christ is God

John 14:11 <font color="ff0000">Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.</font>

The shepherd leads his flock to green pastures.

In closing you act as though a Christian has to be so holy that he will not be able to even be able to correct someone that is talking about him or his beliefs.

You see you may not call names anymore, but you still attack my beliefs. you are one of the main characters bad mouthing my doctrine and church. Don't be shocked that it is offensive to me.

[oneway]

"I don't have the contempt for
either Yaakov or the atheists that drips from SC lips, so why would I help you all try to
verbally beat them up? Besides, you want to see them chastised by God, and I just want
them to be heirs to the kingdom. Our motives are different, Luther."

"You don't have any say so whatsoever in those
decisions ... You don't even know if some atheist or Jew here that was spoken to so nastily
may be the elect of God. The day is not over."


stage_director, statements such as these, are some of the main reasons why I have grown so fond of you and dearly respect you. You have a heart. Your motives are not selfish nor judgemental of others, regardless of what they believe or don't believe. Just like me, you're in this for others also. It's just not good enough for you and I, that we make into the kingdom of God, we want others to make it in also, regardless of who they are or what they believe or don't believe.
And speaking of athiests, I believe the Lord has planted them here for many reasons. If one chooses to have discussions with these athiests, then one's handling and treatment of these athiests will be required by God. The Lord will want to know, from the heart, whether you offered them the way into the kingdom, or did you try to keep them out.
Stage_director, may the Lord truly bless you beyond measure.

[lutheratx]

Revelations 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, <u>which issued out of their mouths.</u>

We have gotten real impressed with the new approach guys. Seems like blowing smoke. I hope that you have gotten some enlightenment and you are treating people really nice. Of course God's word is going to offend some some times. That is why if a man strikes your cheek you turn the other cheek. Hey do me a favor find some post that I have written that was especially offensive that I have not apologized for. Not one that says you may be or you are allowing yourself to be adopted in, because lets be fair I have insults hurled at me here. I don't like being called antisemitic, or racist. You don't know how I treat the Jew or people of ethnic background this present day. None of you are admitted Jew or people of ethnic background. I got to admit there are times I don't like the words that are written here by you and I will sometimes make mistakes in handling it. I do like the new approach, I have learned it well, this is not the only place I have talked to people.

Hey I'm glad you have compassion for one another.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
To blaspheme the holy spirit is only possible when you have the spirit come over you and you denounce it.
END QUOTE

Incomplete, Luther. That's what Murray says it is. And although he's right in part, because that was certainly part of the fall of Satan ... We have to look at when Christ taught this, and what the circumstances were.

It was when the Pharisees said he taught by the spirit of Beelzebub. Christ warned them about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the spirit he was filled with. They had called the Holy Spirit Beelzebub.

Mar 3:28-30
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HATH AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT.

How is it Murray neglects teaching something so important, something that could place your very soul in jeopardy? Murray's big on trying to teach you secret manna God supposedly imparted to him personally ... yet he leaves out the things that really matter. It goes unnoticed by you Shep Chap'lers because your minds are preoccupied by the mysteries you think you're learning. Hence you don't know any better than to assume everyone who rejects Shep Chap doctrine is either blind or evil, and state so accordingly.
.

[lutheratx]

Right they Blaspemed Jesus and he said it would be forgiven. Of course they would have to ask for it. Do you think that everyone that questioned were Jesus got his power of miracles isn't going to be forgiven.

Luke 12:10 <font color="ff0000">And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.</font> 12:11 <font color="ff0000">And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: </font>12:12 <font color="ff0000"><u>For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.</u></font>

The holy spirit will be coming over these people, if you were to not to allow Jesus to speak it would be unforgivable. The Holy Spirit is only going to come over you when God allows it. any teacher that is going against the teachings of Christ will not possess the Holy Spirit. it is only those that teach or learn what is accepted by God that will recieve the Holy Spirit these are the only ones capable of blasphemeth of the Holy spirit. How are you going to blaspheme something you don't even know and have it considered unforgivable. This could be done innocently the way you describe it. It is not possible to blaspheme the holy spirit without it comming over you. These verses prove that.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
It's just not good enough for you and I, that we make into the kingdom of God, we want others to make it in also, regardless of who they are or what they believe or don't believe
END QUOTE

Amen to that. It is not God's desire that any perish. I fool myself if I imagine he has more of a vested interest in me than he does anyone else.

It is written that the law would be written upon our hearts. I've encountered atheists who clearly understood ethics and morality, and practiced them! When an atheist (I think most are agnostic) practices the principles that God sets before believers, my first thought is to wonder what "version" of God they heard that made them want no part of him. :-( Anyway, thanks for the kind words ... and in this case "kind" is a synonym for generous, VERY generous. lol

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Right they Blaspemed Jesus and he said it would be forgiven.
END QUOTE

This is what I mean, Luther. Even though it's boldly written in black and white that Christ said it because they blashemed the Holy Spirit by calling him evil ... since it's not what Murray says your ears and eyes are deaf and blind to it.

Mar 3:29-30
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 BECAUSE THEY SAID, HE HATH AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT.

[oneway]

"The holy spirit will be coming over these people, if you were to not to allow Jesus to speak it
would be unforgivable."

"12:11
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye
no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12:12 For the Holy
Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."


luther, perhaps it's just me, but I don't see the above verses as a warning to those being tried, I see the above words as hope and encouragement for those being tried.
Don't you get it? The ones that will be in danger of blasheming the Holy Ghost are the ones that will be doing the trying, not the ones being tried. The ones being tried will be speaking by the Holy Ghost. The ones trying them are the ones that are in danger of blaspheming of the Holy Ghost.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Don't you get it? The ones that will be in danger of blasheming the Holy Ghost are the ones that will be doing the trying, not the ones being tried. The ones being tried will be speaking by the Holy Ghost. The ones trying them are the ones that are in danger of blaspheming of the Holy Ghost.
END QUOTE

If he doesn't, I do. Whoa. I never even thought about it being the other way around. Thanks, Oneway! I'm going to look at that some more.

[smyrna]

Re Stage Detractor's post 634:

First of all, any good researcher would conclude that the Protcols are fake documents.

Secondly, this tactic of referencing posts from Figtree has never worked, since a Church is not responsible for the errors of its congregation.

In other words, if there are a few students over there tossing around these conspiracy theory ideas, it is NOT evidence that the SC teaches that.

If you superimpose this contention against any other Church, it will show how silly it really is to do what Stage Detractor is doing.

I wonder how may Catholics, for instance, think the same way as these errant Chapel students S_D is pointing out from Figtree?

Probably quite a few.

Yet, the Catholic Church is not quilty of teaching anti-semitism and racism.

Also, let me mention that if these idiots are so concerned about racism and anti-semitism, it sure doesn't show when it comes to their reactions to the posts dealing with the ICGJC.

How inconsistent can they be?

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Smyrna,

Quote:
How inconsistent can they be?

LOL....Very!! lol</font>

[jeff_franklin]

One cult at a time. We're not going to be distracted. We're on you Jew hating racists like a ton of bricks and we're not going to quit until SC is no more. No more jew hating, no more racism. Abandon the SC racist heresy, renounce your nazi false prophet arnold murray and then we'll all go look at black racism.

[godchild]

smyrna should stop using the excuse: "Secondly, this tactic of referencing posts from Figtree has never worked, since a Church is not responsible for the errors of its congregation. In other words, if there are a few students over there tossing around these conspiracy theory ideas, it is NOT evidence that the SC teaches that."

Two reasons. One, that statement would include all the opinions by scers, including himself, posted here. Two, the moderator posted this at:
quote:
theseason.org
Are you searching for the truths of the Bible? We recommend the daily Bible study with the Shepherd's Chapel. Additionally, we have put together a study guide which takes you through the Old Testament and New Testament.

If you would like more information on what we believe, we invite you to read our Statement of Faith. You will find that our statement of faith is <u>identical</u> to that of the Shepherd's Chapel because they are our church.

We also invite you to stop by our forums for discussion, daily news and locating other students in your area. We read, we watch, we pray.
------------------------------end
smyrna also posts there as martureo. So what does smyrna think, that everyone (including terluvire, abiyah, scooter, aviyah, angie, ezekiel, watchman [til he got booted out] who is also a member here and there), shouldn't be believed; only himself? They should take that up with him. Most of us are aware he's not credible; in fact by his own words takes none of this seriously, but says its all for fun and humor (now I see terluvire agrees with that).

If anyone has any doubt about the last statement, just go to smyrna's personal website. One Christian apologist is described with a photo of a horse's behind, another by photo's of a man transgendered, another of a fat biker chick (with my name under it), a gay man, photos of a clown....well, you get the picture. What credibility does he have? In the last few days he said he (1) wouldn't be here for awhile because he's either going to be on a train, or (2) he's going to be working on his site, and (3) he's done enough here. Who has been the one consistant sc poster here? Do you think he's credible? http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/yawn.gif

[godchild]

Let's be more clear about the season and it's affiliation with am/sc. am and his associates (doug for one) monitors what goes on there. Reine, the mod, has proven this over and over again (along with posters), explaining that "am doesn't want us to post this," or "doug doesn't want us to post that". If am and his cohorts thought for one minute the season was sharing his teachings wrong, they would shut it down. Or Reine would, as its owner. The scers here would have to deny that "she follows am/sc" and does whatever she darned well pleases with "her" site, even if it offends him and his agenda. Let smyrna make all the excuses he wants. The evidence shows differently. He's not credible!

[godchild]

terluvire, Have you fed and cleaned your "pet detractors" cage today? That's such a loving, Christian thing to do, and shows how sincere you are with your love for others. I'm happy to see you are well, but sorry to see your time away didn't improve your tendency to play "follow the other kids". When are you going to stand on your own, ter? Maybe I should give up my idea that there is a flicker of light there that am/sc and the other scers haven't doused in your soul. I haven't stopped praying for your physical and more importantly, spiritual health.

[oneway]

"If anyone has any doubt about the last statement, just go to smyrna's personal website.
One Christian apologist is described with a photo of a horse's behind, another by photo's of a
man transgendered, another of a fat biker chick (with my name under it), a gay man, photos
of a clown....well, you get the picture."


I had no idea he was doing all of that on his site. I haven't even been to that site lately. I may have gone there once or twice months and months ago, and I don't recall that. So I want to publically denounce that I wished him well on his site. I'm not about to wish anyone deliberately doing evil well. Godchild, I feel lucky to have you and others here, because sometimes I almost feel sorry for these scers, but for the wrong reasons sometimes. I still feel that they have been treated unfairly at times, but I also feel that they have treated us unfairly at times. That doesn't make it right nor does it even the score in either case.

(Message edited by oneway on September 03, 2007)

[stage_director]

QUOTE
First of all, any good researcher would conclude that the Protcols are fake documents.
END QUOTE

Yeah, I agree with that, Smyrna. Yet there's Roger's essay with all kinds of information about them over on the season.org/Fig Tree to redirect the attention of susceptible minds.

[jeff_franklin]

The best and only way to help the SCers is tough love. Tell them what they are. Racists and heretics. Everybody outside of the SC cult recognizes they are racists and heretics to Christianity. If that does not matter to the SCers that they are racists and heretics then too bad for them. At least we are helping the world to know

STAY AWAY FROM THE RACIST shepherd's chapel CULT AND THE HERESY OF arnold murray.

[wls]

Franklin,

Would you be willing to testify in a court of law that Arnold Murray, the Shepherd's Chapel and its students are "Nazi's", "racists" and "Jew Haters" etc.?

Would you upon swearing on a Bible and under oath, testify that the things you say about the above is the "whole truth"?

Yes or no?

[lutheratx]

You guys are wrong about the blasphemeth of the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

These kings are innocent here they have been lied to and believe the lie. If they were sitting in the presence of you recieving the Holy spirit and mocked what you said while trying to please the Miracle worker Antichrist this would not be unforgivable, there deceived.

Do you think that all deceived people are going to Hell?

Now if you came to full understanding of who that false Christ was and you have been treated by God as one of the elect. Meaning he has blessed you has cleaned the blood off of you and has prepared you for the wedding to be his bride, and then you turned on him and did not stand against this false one then it would be unforgivable. Lets take the ancient Hebrews for example God said behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite. God just made a promise to them like he has to his election. Now here is the type for the unforgivable sin the spies came back and told Moses there were giants in the land and the Hebrews believed the spies and thought God would allow them to be killed by giants. Friend if you learn anything there are no giants that can come against you. If you have been taught this and you fear that Giant the elect have to face and you think God's word instructed for you to say won't win you the battle, friend that is unforgivable.

You guys say I am wrong about everything I say, if you do every say I am right it is because I have debated and debated and debated and you have no where to turn. Now you must understand I am a nerd when it comes to the word of God. I research what I say.

Now you are starting to get a clearer picture on why I consider you spin doctors and twisters. I know you are going to get offended and come off better than me but anyone can see you don't disagree with one thing I say but all things. You are looking for my character assassination at any cost. Why would I ever dare to defend myself. How dare I. I have said a few ugly things because I am of the flesh. I want people to know if God will accept me he will definitely accept you.

[lutheratx]

One last time for clarity the only ones that die a permanent death in the battle of Armageddon is those that are already sentenced to death. These are the fallen angels. It is not possible for them to commit the unforgivable sin because they are already sentenced there is no forgiveness for them already. Jesus wouldn't have talked about this if it didn't concern the election. The election are the only ones capable of this sin. I speculate if an elect did this he would die on the spot unforgiven. I personally do not believe it is even really possible because God test his elect. I think Jesus was teaching that don't be surprised when you see these guys in heaven the very ones that are mocking me. Not that these guys are commiting the unforgivable. I think Jesus was teaching us how forgiving the Father is, him being God with us he is God. Jesus forgave the woman of her fornication on the spot and she didn't even ask him to she did feel sorrow for it, but show me where she said I'm sorry.

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, <font color="ff0000">Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?</font> 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, <font color="ff0000">Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.</font>

I hope you are not trying to spin this and say the SC is going to commit the unforgivable. This would be the greatest insult of all to me, I mean I would really be insulted.

[stage_director]

I think many of you have probably blasphemed the Holy Spirit by calling other Christians evil when they were actually speaking as servants of Christ ... But am I saying I think that Shep Chap'lers will be brought up to give a testimony in some huge world event and refuse to speak? No.

[oneway]

"You guys are wrong about the blasphemeth of the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for
that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall
they consider. "


lutheratx, please enlighten me on how Isaiah 52:15
has even anything remotely to do with blspheming the Holy Spirit by the elect who refuse to speak by the Holy Spirit, as you claim.

I'm once again sorry, but you are so very far from the context in Isaiah 52, that I don't know where to start. But I will let you try to prove your point if you wish.

[godchild]

Elect=believers.

Elect=believers.

Elect=believers.

[godchild]

2 John 1:1-3 The Elder, To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth, because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever. Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Here John is speaking to the CHURCH; not to the dead patriarchs, not to a few specially chosen people, but to the church.

vs.9 Whoever trangresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

If you have the Father and the Son, you are ELECT. If you abide in the doctrine of Jesus Christ, you are the ELECT. All believers are the ELECT.

God said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." The definition for elect is chosen one. God has chosen each of us. We are elect when we believe in Him.

[oneway]

"Elect=believers.

Elect=believers.

Elect=believers."
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif


Jesus also said that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. What I want to know is how anyone can blaspheme the Holy Spirit when they're refusing to speak. Blasphemy requires speaking against. Not refusing to speak.
I just figured out something, LOL. Perhaps AM is not such a bad teacher afterall. Just take some of AMs teachings, reverse what he says they mean, and you may just happen to stumble upon some truths.

[jeff_franklin]

wls:


YES!

Sue me!

[wls]

It ain't up to me.

Unfortunately.

[jeff_franklin]

And we could sue you and your fellow racist cultists for slandering all human beings who are not german. Calling us soulless beasts of the field and the spawns of satan. Now that would be a lawsuit WE could win!

Man! We (the non german world) would own 5 aerioplanes, a set of white sheets and hoods, set of brown shirts and goosestepping jack boots, a stack of arnie's Sheperd's bibles, a worn out Strong's concordance, Bullinger's bible, a twisted up KJV bible. arnie's mansion (no church though, that is rented) what else you got?????

Just sue me yourself because I just annoy you. I'm sure the atheists would love to join you in that lawsuit against me. They also hate God and love to pervert the bible.

[smyrna]

"Franklin,

Would you be willing to testify in a court of law that Arnold Murray, the Shepherd's Chapel and its students are "Nazi's", "racists" and "Jew Haters" etc.?"

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifHe's such a coward, he won't even write the ADL himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jeff_franklin]

How do you know that I haven't smeagle?

The ADL already knows ya'll are racists.

[smyrna]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifI don't, but I doubt it. Because if you had any response from them, you'd be parading all over these boards showing it off, IF they agreed with you.

But since "Zarquan" (who you have probably banned from CB, you coward!)says he/she wrote to them several times and they didn't even answer,I doubt they will answer you, since you write like the raving lunatic you are.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

"The ADL already knows ya'll are racists.'

Smyrna: Well, if that be the case, you have wasted your time if you wrote them telling them something you claim they already know, moron!

[smyrna]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifI don't, but I doubt it. Because if you had any response from them, you'd be parading all over these boards showing it off, IF they agreed with you.

But since "Zarquan" (who you have probably banned from CB, you coward!)says he/she wrote to them several times and they didn't even answer,I doubt they will answer you, since you write like the raving lunatic you are.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

"The ADL already knows ya'll are racists.'

Smyrna: Well, if that be the case, you have wasted your time if you wrote them telling them something you claim they already know, moron!

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">LOL Smyrna....your post has me laughing....

lol too funny!!</font> http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[godchild]

luther. I wish you could see what you are saying. I listened to am yesterday morning. He said "The elect were justified, they overcame by working for it in the first earth age." Then he asked this question, as if to confirm what he said, "Do you not believe the Holy Spirit was in the first earth age?"

Read that carefully. What do you think justified means? What does it mean to you when Jesus said (here on earth) "I WILL send to you a comforter." Do you believe the "comforter" is the Holy Spirit or not? What happened on the day of pentecost?

Another question because he brought this up when answering a question to him was about what happens to us when we die. He said "They are absent from the body, present with the Lord. We are through with our flesh body." He then quoted Eccles. 9 and said "They have no memory. It's gone."

Now answer this please. Was he talking about the elect, those who weren't elect, or both? After you answer that, explain to us this: Where will those dead people who no longer have flesh bodies and no memories, be when Jesus comes to the earth again? If they are only the elect, and have no memory, this would need to include all the apostles and prophets, correct? Or if it is the non-elect, where will they be when Jesus comes again? If they (elect) have no memory but were justified in the first earth age, like you would have to say you who are living are (justified), what was Jesus' purpose for coming to this "earth age", teaching, healing, taking the sins of ....WHO? to the cross? What will be the point of those (in heaven, I presume) who are with God (I presume they are with God in heaven), would do any good coming back here with no memory. After all, sc teaches you elect who are alive will be the ones teaching the rest of us for the millenium. Are those people coming with Jesus or staying in heaven (or wherever you think they will be)? am/sc teaches the new heaven will be here on earth. Won't those folks come here too, or is a separate placed reserved for them?

I hope this doesn't confuse you. It must not, because you say you believe the teachings of am/sc, correct? Let me tell you, it confuses the hell out of me because it is a complete fabricated distortion of the Holy Bible I and millions of others have/do study from. I'm not trying to offend you. I am trying to help you. Why? That's a good question. Not by myself, that's for sure. I by myself think you all are a lost cause and nuttier than hell for believing such nonsense. It is the compassion God placed in my heart when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior. It is the Holy Spirit dwelling in me; a promise that came from my Holy Bible. My spirit battles with His at times like this. That is what makes me human, and Him God!

Oh, one more thing. You believe only the fallen angels will go to hell. Tell us then, since you believe you are elect and we are not; what does it matter. "Eat, drink, and be merry. For tomorrow we die." Right! You said the elect can't commit the unforgiven blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Apparently you believe someone can. But who cares? It's all predetermined anyway, right, according to am's teaching. The elect did their work and are already justified and all?

Was God fair? After all, you all are already justified before being born here. Why should you have to do anything further? I mean, since you were angels and the fallen ones are the only bad, its fixed before it starts, right. And poor Jesus. He must have been already justified too, right? But He had to come down and die for what? A bunch of people who aren't going to hell anyway. Or do you think there's another place besides heaven or hell in eternity? Boy, your god is sure unfair, wouldn't you agree? What the hell is the point in all this for you?

[godchild]

Did you read my first post here (this thread)? Remember what am said about five dimensions? Who are in dimensions 1,2,3,4,5?

Do you really think am holds the keys to the kingdom? He says so. Says you do, too. Do you believe that? Yesterday he said you all will be able to "drag some over"during the millenium, but he didn't say from where to where. Can you fill us in on that?

[smyrna]

Ter,

Notice how Frankie hasn't come back to this thread since that stupid comment, being the coward that he is.

[jeff_franklin]

Hey racist punk! I'm still here. Bait me some more Jew hater!

[smyrna]

Hey Glenn/Franklin/Foxy Loxy, I'd watch out who you call a punk. After all, I've never been a cross dresser, like some people I've heard of.

[jeff_franklin]

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/lol.gif

[jeff_franklin]

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 12:04:12 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Delete and ban Smyrna
To: "Fact Net" <mrfactnet@gmail.com>
CC: manage@factnet.org

Well here you go. What are you going to do now? I request that you delete Smyrna's post #3397 and then ban him as a posting member on factnet. Thank you.

FACTNet Message Board » Religious Cults and Sects » Shepherds Chapel / Arnold Murray » Join the "Transportation of Elohyim" at the Fig Tree



godchild
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild

Post Number: 402
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.182.235.132
Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 1:42 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you read my first post here (this thread)? Remember what am said about five dimensions? Who are in dimensions 1,2,3,4,5?

Do you really think am holds the keys to the kingdom? He says so. Says you do, too. Do you believe that? Yesterday he said you all will be able to "drag some over"during the millenium, but he didn't say from where to where. Can you fill us in on that?


smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 3394
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 148.70.237.171
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 6:39 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ter,

Notice how Frankie hasn't come back to this thread since that stupid comment, being the coward that he is.


jeff_franklin
Advanced Member
Username: jeff_franklin

Post Number: 597
Registered: 6-2007
Posted From: 67.9.9.73
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 6:52 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey racist punk! I'm still here. Bait me some more Jew hater!


smyrna
Senior Member
Username: smyrna

Post Number: 3397
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 148.70.237.171