What do you believe?

[jefffranklin]

So Dodge, we get it that you detest Christianity with all of your continual insults and barbs. No one is surprised in that. By bashing Christianity and any belief in a God you are evangelizing your own beliefs which I suspect is satanism. Am I correct? All of this talk you do about embracing one's evil and dark side within us is a doctrine of LaVeyan Satanism. Modern day satanism does not beleve in a God or Satan and is very denigrating to those who do. You have never come out and told anyone here what YOU believe, only in vague fuzzy wuzzy terms. I know "satanism" has very negative conotations but is that YOUR belief? If not how would you describe your beliefs and label them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

[ADMIN]

New thread to question the beliefs of others.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

I do not recommend the use of a write-your-own encylcopedia (wikipedia) as a reference source.

[truth_child]

franklin just us GODS WORD THE BIBLE kjv

[trainedobserver]

I think that some people's view of reality is cartoonish at best. The make-believe world that is composed of "LIBERALS" who fight the "CONSERVATIVES" in a never-ending war composed of caricatures of communists, atheists, religionists, democrats, republicans, and all the rest is just so much delusion. In reality the lines of demarcation aren't so readily apparent and nothing is so cut and dried as some want to pretend and other would have us believe.

[fatherofaking]

I believe the world is coming to an end.
My parents believed it.
Their parents believed it.
As far back as i can remember, they all believed it.
It came true for every one of them, their world ended one day, just like that!
They never saw it coming.
I heard it happens to every body.
But i don't believe it.

[jefffranklin]

I agree with you t.o. Nothing is cut and dry in those terms.

foak: I don't believe the world is coming to an end. See no evidence of such.

I sleep good at night not worrying about such crap.

Now maybe dodge will come around and answer my question in more specific terms. I am curious as to what his belief system is.

[easeltine]

Franklin,

So, you admit that you have problems believing in Global Warming, that the Ice Caps will melt, and that we will be reduced to creatures bartering dirt instead of oil like movie Waterworld?

You Conservative you.

[fatherofaking]

FIRE AND ICE
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favour fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

Robert Frost

[dodge]

Hi Franklin. No, I’m not a Satanist. One thing that confuses me is your statement, “Modern day Satanism does not believe in a God or Satan…” If one doesn’t believe in Satan, how can they be a Satanist? That doesn’t make much sense to me. I believe that Satan is a mythical creature that was invented by Christians. Satan never really had any existence in the Torah, other than being an adversary, a member of God’s council, sort of like a prosecuting attorney looking for faults in people; but he never had any power other than what God gave him. In terms of mythology, I believe that Satan is Christ’s shadow, his dark side. I believe that each of us has a dark side, that we don’t recognize as belonging to us; and we tend to project that onto others. What we can’t admit in ourselves we accuse others of being. Watch who you point your finger at, accuse, demonize, hate, have animosity towards…this is your unacknowledged, unconscious dark side that you fail to recognize as belonging to you. The process of becoming whole includes a withdrawal of these projections, an integration of your shadow into your totality. When you no longer need to project that which you cannot admit in yourself, then you will be healed, whole, and without a shadow. Without a shadow, we will have no enemies and no animosity towards anyone. This is the key to individual and world peace.

All of this is from Carl Jung, and his process of individuation. It is not Satanic, as you believe; but I can understand how you would see it that way. I have not yet achieved this kind of wholeness, I have animosity and point my finger at people, project my shadow on a daily basis and come here with my opinions just like everyone else. I’m human. But I’m working on myself, using Jungian individuation techniques along with other systems developed by other teachers. I am a student of the art of presence, living in the moment, as taught by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh and spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle; and practice the art of intention as taught by several masters that I work with. Other than the simple teachings of Jesus, who taught us to offer no resistance to evil, to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, to love your neighbor as you love yourself, to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, to visit the sick and imprisoned, to have compassion for all of our brothers and sisters…I have no use for the Bible.

You and I, Franklin, we are brothers here on this planet, doing the best we can with what we have. On these threads in this internet forum I’m just another guy with opinions. It means nothing in the scheme of things. We are all following our dharma, that which we think is right for us individually. What’s right for me is not right for you, everyone to their path. I will continue to voice my point of view, as you will yours. Why? I don’t know, perhaps it’s cathartic in some mysterious way. Maybe I have too much time on my hands. Whatever.

[truth_child]

i beleive that THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST ARE AND HAVE BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING AND WILL ALWAYS BE AND THAT JESUS WILL RETURN ONE DAY FOR HIS CHURCH THE SAVED BORN AGAIN PEOPLE

[trainedobserver]

I believe the world is coming to an end.
My parents believed it.
Their parents believed it.
As far back as i can remember, they all believed it.
It came true for every one of them, their world ended one day, just like that!
They never saw it coming.
I heard it happens to every body.
But i don't believe it.

Oh, that is funny!

[trainedobserver]

foak: I don't believe the world is coming to an end. See no evidence of such.

He was talking about the individual's world ending in their deaths, not the literal world ending. You missed the humor of the whole thing.

[trainedobserver]

i beleive that THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST ARE AND HAVE BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING AND WILL ALWAYS BE AND THAT JESUS WILL RETURN ONE DAY FOR HIS CHURCH THE SAVED BORN AGAIN PEOPLE

Paradoxical Monotheism with multiple gods! Can you say cognitive dissidence? How about intellectual dishonesty? God's impregnating a human so they can sacrifice their offspring in a substitutionary death for the perceived transgressions against themselves by their own creations. Later after countless human suffering and death has transpired, the reanimated corpse (complete with unhealed wounds) of the offspring who is also part of the multiple person "monotheistic" god-head, returns to gather up all those up will simply believe what they are told about the substitutionary death happening and place their faith in the person who is said to have performed it. If you don't believe the story as its told you are thrown into a place of torments or at worst pitched into the outer darkness because you would dare balk at the idea of it being anything but "a story." Maybe that would have made more sense if I typed it in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS!

[bluewater2]

It seemed to me that Franklin was on the edge of his seat waiting for Dodge to explain his views to him. Now that Dodge has done so, where is Franklin's commentary on that?

[jargon631]

this is the way the world ends,
this is the way the world ends,
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang but a whimper

t.s.elliot

[truth_child]

t.o. no i bleieve IN ONE GOD EXSISTING IN THREE PERSONS GOD THE FATHER AND GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY GHOST.. THESE THREE ARE ONE

[trainedobserver]

t.o. no i bleieve IN ONE GOD EXSISTING IN THREE PERSONS GOD THE FATHER AND GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY GHOST.. THESE THREE ARE ONE

Just what I said, paradoxical multi-god monotheism. A single god made up of three persons.

[jefffranklin]

It seemed to me that Franklin was on the edge of his seat waiting for Dodge to explain his views to him. Now that Dodge has done so, where is Franklin's commentary on that?

There is no need to respond to dodge's post. I gave dodge a simple choice of conduct. He decided to remain the same flaming, trolling antiChristian offender he's always been, oblivious to what the majority of posters on this forum are here for. To promote cult awareness. dodge's motivations for being here are strictly selfish. To convert everyone else to be dodge clones or to continue to be offended by him. I think the readers of factnet are intelligent enough to see that.

[bluewater2]

I think that Dodge gave a very candid and open answer to your request to have him explain what he believes. You can disagree, but you should at least do so in the spirit of his honest and respectful response. Ignoring his answer to your question is not very polite.

[jefffranklin]

Actually my last post here was in response to another one of dodge's posts last night on another thread concerning his motivation for posting on factnet. Not to his answer to my initial questions to him about his beliefs on this thread. As to his answer to me on this thread I do not believe he was totally forthcoming but since "waterboarding" is illegal his answer will have to surfice for now. :)

[jefffranklin]

I can talk about whatever the hell I want to; and I don't need you to be dictating to me about what I need to be discussing.


That is a big ditto to you! :)

[truth_child]

you two quit argueing see it leads to thing being said that shold not be said

[robertmejiayah]

Doctrinal Statement

1. We believe the 66 Books of the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are the only divinely inspired and authoritative Word of God, and are inerrant in their Original Manuscripts.

2. We believe in the one Triune God, in 3 equal Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Who is the Sovereign Creator and Ruler of Heaven and of the universe that He made in 6 days.

3. We believe in the Fall and lost estate of man and that his total depravity requires new birth by God’s Sovereign Grace alone, to inherit the Kingdom of God.

4. We believe in the Deity of the LORD Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, death, bodily resurrection, present exaltation at God the Father’s Right Hand, and that He is coming again soon to Judge the living and the dead.

5. We believe that the reconciliation to Himself of those to whom God has given the New Birth, is only by the substitutionary death and shed blood of the only Savior for sinners, the LORD Jesus Christ.

6. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the saved unto eternal life in the bliss of Paradise and blessedness of Heaven forever, and in the bodily resurrection of the unsaved unto everlasting punishment in Hell.

7. We believe that the Church, the invisible Body of Christ, is bound together by the Holy Spirit, and consists only of those that are born from above by God, for whom Christ died, and for whom the LORD Jesus Christ makes intercession in Heaven, and for whom Christ shall soon come again.

8. We believe that this invisible Church fears God, and has been given a new, ongoing desire to obey God’s Law, the Bible, and a dread of, and repentance for disobeying the Bible.

9. We believe that Christ’s Great Commission to the eternal
Church is to go into all the world and preach the Gospel of "sin, Righteousness, and Judgment" (John 16:8) to every creature, instructing those who will and can hear, to believe all of the Bible, and only the Bible.

10. We believe that God has finished using the institutional churches and denominations even as He did with the synagogues (and the nation of Israel), when Christ hung on the Cross. They are now under His divine wrath, and the Holy Spirit is no longer operating there as He had since the Day of Pentecost.

[trainedobserver]

1. I believe that all texts considered to be divinely inspired and authoritative to be the works of the imaginations of men.

2. I do not believe in god, gods, or the supernatural. There is only the natural universe of which our understanding is incomplete.

3. I believe human beings have both inherent strengths and weaknesses and together they comprise what it means to be human.

4. I believe that all living things die and remain dead. We are temporary.

5. I believe that human beings are fully integrated into nature in both origin and existence and not apart from it or in dominion over it.

[bramble]

I do not recommend the use of a write-your-own encylcopedia (wikipedia) as a reference source.

Are we allowed to write our own dictionary then use that? :D

[bramble]

Hi Franklin. No, I’m not a Satanist. One thing that confuses me is your statement, “Modern day Satanism does not believe in a God or Satan…” If one doesn’t believe in Satan, how can they be a Satanist? That doesn’t make much sense to me. I believe that Satan is a mythical creature that was invented by Christians. Satan never really had any existence in the Torah, other than being an adversary, a member of God’s council, sort of like a prosecuting attorney looking for faults in people; but he never had any power other than what God gave him. In terms of mythology, I believe that Satan is Christ’s shadow, his dark side. I believe that each of us has a dark side, that we don’t recognize as belonging to us; and we tend to project that onto others. What we can’t admit in ourselves we accuse others of being. Watch who you point your finger at, accuse, demonize, hate, have animosity towards…this is your unacknowledged, unconscious dark side that you fail to recognize as belonging to you. The process of becoming whole includes a withdrawal of these projections, an integration of your shadow into your totality. When you no longer need to project that which you cannot admit in yourself, then you will be healed, whole, and without a shadow. Without a shadow, we will have no enemies and no animosity towards anyone. This is the key to individual and world peace.

All of this is from Carl Jung, and his process of individuation. It is not Satanic, as you believe; but I can understand how you would see it that way. I have not yet achieved this kind of wholeness, I have animosity and point my finger at people, project my shadow on a daily basis and come here with my opinions just like everyone else. I’m human. But I’m working on myself, using Jungian individuation techniques along with other systems developed by other teachers. I am a student of the art of presence, living in the moment, as taught by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh and spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle; and practice the art of intention as taught by several masters that I work with. Other than the simple teachings of Jesus, who taught us to offer no resistance to evil, to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, to love your neighbor as you love yourself, to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, to visit the sick and imprisoned, to have compassion for all of our brothers and sisters…I have no use for the Bible.

You and I, Franklin, we are brothers here on this planet, doing the best we can with what we have. On these threads in this internet forum I’m just another guy with opinions. It means nothing in the scheme of things. We are all following our dharma, that which we think is right for us individually. What’s right for me is not right for you, everyone to their path. I will continue to voice my point of view, as you will yours. Why? I don’t know, perhaps it’s cathartic in some mysterious way. Maybe I have too much time on my hands. Whatever.

Someone said that a great weapon for Satan would be to convince us that he didn't exist. If we didn't believe in him then he would have power over us. Why? Simply because people would then stop living for God our of indifference and selfishess. They might even stop believing in God!

[dodge]

Hi Bramble. What makes you believe that if people don’t believe in God then they would live lives of indifference and selfishness? Are you saying that all atheists are indifferent and selfish? You know that’s not true, don’t you?

[jefffranklin]

A good example of how YOU are indifferent and selfish dodge is how you post pictures of Christ hanging on a cross in drag knowing full well it is obscenely offensive to the Christian readers of factnet, the majority here, but you do it because you enjoy and get your kicks from doing such shocking, indifferent, hedonistic and selfish acts. You are proof of bramble's point.

Ridiculing and denigrating Christians is another example of your intolerance, indifference and selfishness.

Another example is how you threadjack topics set up to discuss cults with your atheist evangelism with the same indifference and selfishness.

You are proof of bramble's point!

[bluewater2]

"A good example of how YOU are indifferent and selfish dodge is how you post pictures of Christ hanging on a cross in drag knowing full well it is obscenely offensive to the Christian readers of factnet, the majority here, but you do it because you enjoy and get your kicks from doing such shocking, indifferent, hedonistic and selfish acts. You are proof of bramble's point.

Ridiculing and denigrating Christians is another example of your intolerance, indifference and selfishness."

A good example of you ridiculing atheists is that stupid cartoon that you post of Elmer Fudd hunting "Cwistians." You are as guilty of anyone of that stuff. The difference is that you seem to think that all christians are as lacking of a sense of humor as you are and that they get insulted by those posted by dodge.

I can guarantee you that there is not an atheist alive who gets insulted by your childish cartoons. They are amusing. If the "Christian readers of factnet, the majority here," are truly offended by those of the dead guy in drag, I suggest that they are insecure and perhaps involved in a cult that exhibits no tolerance for apposing views and no sense of humor.

Get over it.

[bluewater2]

Logical Reasonists Doctrinal Statement:

1. We believe the 66 Books of the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are from the mind of man and contain true stories mixed with alagory and fables used as vehicles to explain life and lifes lessons, some still apropriate for today.

2. We believe the concept of god was invented by man to help explain the unexplainable at a time when science was not yet able to explain them.

3. We do not believe in the idea that man is a sinner, that he makes mistakes, and the only way to truly atone for your mistakes is by apologizing to those you have wronged.

4. We believe the idea that the Deity of the LORD Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, death, bodily resurrection and that He is coming again soon to Judge the living and the dead is pure mysticism and the source of much intolerance in the world.

5. We believe that the idea that the reconciliation to Himself of those to whom God has given the New Birth, and that only by the substitutionary death and shed blood of the only Savior for sinners by the LORD Jesus Christ is the primary example of the intolerance of the christian belief system.

6. We believe that the idea of the bodily resurrection of the saved unto eternal life in the bliss of Paradise and blessedness of Heaven forever, and in the bodily resurrection of the unsaved unto everlasting punishment in Hell is rediculous and without merit.

7. We believe that the Church, the invisible Body of Christ, is hardly invisible.

8. We believe that the idea that this invisible Church fears God, and has been given a new, ongoing desire to obey God’s Law, the Bible, and a dread of, and repentance for disobeying the Bible is an example of how a book written by man was designed to enslave the mind and heart of man and strip him of his income through tithing.

9. We believe that the belief that Christ’s Great Commission to the eternal
Church is to go into all the world and preach the Gospel of "sin, Righteousness, and Judgment" (John 16:8) to every creature, instructing those who will and can hear, to believe all of the Bible, and only the Bible makes christianity and islam equal in their aggressive natures.

10. We believe that if there were a God, he would be disappointed enough in what has been created in his mane that he would have finished using the institutional churches and denominations even as He did with the synagogues (and the nation of Israel), when Christ hung on the Cross. They are now under His divine wrath, and the Holy Spirit is no longer operating there as He had since the Day of Pentecost.

[jefffranklin]

Factnet is not your personal sandbox for you and your fellow atheists to defecate on believers of God in. Factnet's self proclaimed mission is to expose cults. Part of that process of cult awareness is discussion which the resident factnet atheists make almost impossible by their incessant intrusions taking threads about cults off topic by their constant evangelizing atheism.

With proper moderation on factnet what dodge does as well as the other atheist's inappropriate behavior on this forum would not be allowed.

The "Open Season on Christians" cartoon I post is an appropriate response and is a fact because it is obvious that you, dodge and others think in your own selfish indifferent ways that your intolerant diatribes against theists is acceptable behavior. Reality is that it is not and is extremely offensive to the readers of factnet.

Just more of the atheist "anything goes", since there is no God to you there is no wrong, no right, no such thing as morals or proper behavior. Your defense of dodge's behavior is incredulous and displays your atheist cultic mindset.

You and dodge are WRONG! GET OVER IT! GET RIGHT!

[bluewater2]

"Factnet is not your personal sandbox"

It is everyone's personal sandbox. Yours as well, obviously.

[jefffranklin]

I do not post on factnet to bash atheists. I come here to discuss cults.

You do not post on factnet to discuss cults. You just post on factnet to bash believers in God.

You just abuse this forum. I just use it. There's the difference.

[bluewater2]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

"You just post on factnet to bash believers in God."

I do not bash the believers in god, just the belief in it.

Of course, you knew that already. You are just in the mood to argue today. I don't have as much time today to devote to you. I'm sorry.

[dodge]

Hi Franklin. If you have a complaint about what I or Bluewater say in expressing our opinions in this public forum designed to be a vehicle for free speech, I would suggest you contact the administration here. What you don’t seem to understand is that this forum actually IS a sandbox that was set up for us to play in. There are lots of threads that have nothing to do with exposing cults, such as “Will God Throw People Into Hell,” “The Doctrine of Election is Very Serious,” “Does Anyone Miss Going to Church,” “When Does Salvation Occur,” “God Created Evil,” and “Is There An Alternative to Organized Religion.” The fact is, we, as members of this forum, can talk about whatever we want to; not what Franklin wants us to talk about. You’re not on the bridge of your fantasy starship, Captain Crunch, in the threads that you created that were deleted both here at FactNet and over at Cultbusters. Oh, I forgot, you promoted yourself to admiral.

As a non-theist who believes that your Jesus the Invisible Magical Mystical Christ is a figment of your imagination, a mental virus (meme), and has no existence outside of your mind and the minds of your fellow Bibleheads, I respond to posts here and state my opinions; which is my right. If you don’t like it, read the following:

“Posts on the FactNet forum only represent the opinions of the posters. FactNet and FactNet forum are free speech environments. Feel free to engage in lively discussion. If you have an issue which you feel needs moderation and falls outside of the forum rules, please see Personal abuse complaints.”

http://factnet.org/forum/rules.htm#charges

Got it, Admiral?

[trainedobserver]

Factnet is not your personal sandbox for you and your fellow atheists to defecate on believers of God in.

Wow. What an image. What an extreme thing to say let alone imagine. It's an over-reaction and mischaracterization to say the least. Tsk, tsk. Real nasty.

[Night_Light]

Franklin, I will have to agree with you on that Jesus hanging on the cross in drag and other dirty Jesus images dodge enjoys posting on here(of course we are probably just encouraging him) it is very disrespectful even though I follow a different form of spiritual belief, it does make stomach turn to see that. I mean it would be like taking Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin and dressing them up in drag and hanging them upside down on tree..

But it is a free for all forum, well at least free for some people;)

[trainedobserver]

Here is a link to some excellent 'respectful' Christian satire. No hanging transvestite zombie Jesus or anything really 'offensive' as that just musings about the eternal damnation of unbelievers. Who could be offended by that? (nyuk, nyuk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyETGWNE02k&feature=rec-fresh

The ability of adult people to be offended by the actions of others they could easily ignore or overlook is fascinating. It is almost as though they don't realize that they empower the 'offender' by acknowledging their existence. Rather, they should just ignore them if at all possible and marginalize them if not. The Muslims actually 'created' the offense in the now famous Danish cartoons by their own disproportionate reaction and hurt themselves and their faith. The cartoons ... remain unbothered by it all. The petty arguments and tom foolery that goes on in this forum is obviously carried out for the amusement and entertainment of the participants and they aren't carried out in the defense of noble ideals or beliefs no matter what they pretend.

Here is another great piece of Christian satire from the same fellow. This one is non-offensive except for the description of the UFO activity. Plug your ears and say "La, la, la!" when you get to that part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VxBB_ObgA0&feature=user

People's Religion Should Be Respected!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Alhhe-JA8

[jefffranklin]

The ability of adult people to be offended by the actions of others they could easily ignore or overlook is fascinating. It is almost as though they don't realize that they empower the 'offender' by acknowledging their existence. Rather, they should just ignore them if at all possible and marginalize them if not.


Oh yeah! Riiiiiiiiight!

"Do as I say not as I do."

As if you've never advocated that I be banned from this forum for offending you.

lol! Hypocrisy again from the atheist camp! :D

[dodge]

Trained Observer -- I never heard of Eddie Current before; but after watching those youtube videos you posted, and going to his website to read his blogs, I am now a fan. Thanks.

Here's Current satirizing creationists:

http://www.atheistnation.net/video/?video/01710/atheist/edward-current-people-are-not-animals/

[jefffranklin]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb250/cap_franklin/atheism.gif

[ba2]

What I believe.

Nobody joins a cult. They join religious groups.

Marshall Applewhite and Heaven’s Gate. Most people saw them as “weird” from the beginning. The group was formally against suicide, but was later convinced that "suicide" in its own context meant "to turn against the Next Level. They interpreted passages from the four gospels and the book Revelation as referring to UFO visitation.- 39 dead.

David Koresh and the Branch Davidian. Most saw him as overly spiritual but somewhat normal. By the age of 12, he had memorized the entire New Testament. At 19 he claimed to have become a born-again Christian in the Southern Baptist Church. He was the dynamic leader of the Mount Carmel Center and died in the Waco tragedy. Believed he was a prophet of God. Used scripture to convince his followers of his authority. Branch Davidians believe that Koresh will someday return to Earth. - 76 dead at Waco.

Dangerous cults, yes, but fortunately only for the few who were involved. They were very effective with the mind control but they were so outlandish that just about any person with minimal reasoning power could see the danger, and easily avoid the mind control. As groups become more mainstream, they become more dangerous to the mainstream. Example: Jim Jones and the People’s Temple A Baptist minister in Indiana who started the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel. Privately, it is said that he was not a believer, but his followers sure believed. He moved to California and then to Jonestown.- 900 dead at Jamestown

I believe that potentially, most dangerous cults for society are those closer to the mainstream. They can more easily flim-flam the masses. The really “far out” weird cults may be horrible for those involved, but have a minimal effect on society.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

What I believe.

Nobody joins a cult. They join religious groups.

Marshall Applewhite and Heaven’s Gate. Most people saw them as “weird” from the beginning. The group was formally against suicide, but was later convinced that "suicide" in its own context meant "to turn against the Next Level. They interpreted passages from the four gospels and the book Revelation as referring to UFO visitation.- 39 dead.

David Koresh and the Branch Davidian. Most saw him as overly spiritual but somewhat normal. By the age of 12, he had memorized the entire New Testament. At 19 he claimed to have become a born-again Christian in the Southern Baptist Church. He was the dynamic leader of the Mount Carmel Center and died in the Waco tragedy. Believed he was a prophet of God. Used scripture to convince his followers of his authority. Branch Davidians believe that Koresh will someday return to Earth. - 76 dead at Waco.

Dangerous cults, yes, but fortunately only for the few who were involved. They were very effective with the mind control but they were so outlandish that just about any person with minimal reasoning power could see the danger, and easily avoid the mind control. As groups become more mainstream, they become more dangerous to the mainstream. Example: Jim Jones and the People’s Temple A Baptist minister in Indiana who started the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel. Privately, it is said that he was not a believer, but his followers sure believed. He moved to California and then to Jonestown.- 900 dead at Jamestown

I believe that potentially, most dangerous cults for society are those closer to the mainstream. They can more easily flim-flam the masses. The really “far out” weird cults may be horrible for those involved, but have a minimal effect on society.

Mr. BA2, is there any chance you hate Baptist for some reason? Let me set the record straight. Jim Jones was a Church of Christ preacher (http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm), licensed and ordained. Jones was a sweet heart to the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism . . . being fluent in all nine gifts of the Holy spirit. David Koresh was an Adventist (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/davidkoresh.html), not Baptist either. Koresh was licensed and ordained in the Seventhday Adventist church. (Since the web site given is extreme left-wing and grossly perverted, I suggest more research.)

[ba2]

Mr. BA2, is there any chance you hate Baptist for some reason? Let me set the record straight. Jim Jones was a Church of Christ preacher (http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm), licensed and ordained. Jones was a sweet heart to the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism . . . being fluent in all nine gifts of the Holy spirit. David Koresh was an Adventist (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/davidkoresh.html), not Baptist either. Koresh was licensed and ordained in the Seventhday Adventist church. (Since the web site given is extreme left-wing and grossly perverted, I suggest more research.)

Currently I attend an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church. Generally, this particular one has a loving environment so I can usually get along.

I have no particular issues with Baptists unless they take their faith to the extreme and try to push it on to everyone else. I find this to be more likely with the independent Baptist, especially the fundamentalists. They legitimatize their church by placing a mainline name (Baptist) on the wall. When you walk into an independent Baptist church you have no idea what you are walking into. The pastor sets the tone, it could be hell and damnation, or it could be peace and love thy neighbor. When the pastor moves on, the church can totally change direction, from a loving environment to a hateful judgmental environment. I don’t find this to be true with Southern or American Baptists.

An issue I have our whole system of religious freedom is that anyone can nail a shingle to the wall and call themselves a church. The biggest screwball in the world can simply declare himself some sort of prophet and start a church.

Applewhite was just plain nuts.

Koresh was a born again Baptist who was later licensed and ordained in the Seventhday Adventist church. Certainly, he was delusional. His ministry may have been bible based, but certainly not what I would consider Baptist.

You might be right about Jones. He was a student pastor a Methodist Church but started his own ministry at the Community Unity Church. He was intrigued with faith healing he observed at the Seventh Day Baptist Church and ministered in a similar fashion. Like the other flim-flan artists out there, he faked the healing to attract a more devote following.

[truth_child]

maybe because of how you hate pentecostals

[ba2]

maybe because of how you hate pentecostals

I sometimes get very frustrated but I can’t think of anyone I would put in the category of hating.

I have little use for so-called religious leaders who flim-flam their congregations. Many ministers do just that.

So I take issue when someone suggests that we must tithe. I freely give to the needy and support my church, but I will never formally tithe.

I take issue when someone claims to be a faith healer, this is very dangerous.

I take issue when someone says I have to ignore common sense and science because it doesn’t square with their interpretation of scripture. This is just plain stupid.

In many ways a Pentecostal is very much like the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. They have no central authority so you have no idea what you are walking into when you first attend one of their churches. As far as I'm concerned, they can believe what they want, as long as they don’t try to force their beliefs others.

[trainedobserver]

Oh yeah! Riiiiiiiiight!

"Do as I say not as I do."

As if you've never advocated that I be banned from this forum for offending you.

lol! Hypocrisy again from the atheist camp! :D


Well like I said, you ignore them, much as I do you, whenever possible. It isn't that you offend me, you don't, I feel a great deal of pity for you. It's your dishonest behavior that isn't needed in this forum or any other for that manner that motivated me to answer the poll in that manner. That and the knowledge that you would be checking to see who voted for what and I hate to disappoint. I'd have banned you long ago along with anyone else who plays the dishonest games you have played here. This is no place for lies and deception as many who come here have been lied to and abused by 'spiritual' and 'religious' people already. Go play Star Trek'n for Jesus or whatever you call it now. Make the galaxy safe from the terrible atheists in your imagination like a good fellow.

[truth_child]

star trek for JESUS ????? what in the world are you talking about never heard of that

[robertmejiayah]

The book To God Be the Glory! by Harold Camping is available now.

[truth_child]

robert athesists if pushed and was a bout to die i am sure would change their minds real quick there is a saying among soldiers "there are no athesist in fox holes" in facti beleive that when madilyn ohara stated to die and her son and granddaughter that they changed their minds mighty quick about GOD and i pray before they died they had an opurtunity to call on GOD

[truth_child]

franklin are you still on here ? merry CHRISTmas every one of my friends

[truth_child]

to no there is only ONE GOD EXSISTIONG IN THREE PERSONS

[truth_child]

i beleive that we should all live right and get along

[robertmejiayah]

I believe in God and the Holy Bible.

[the_apostolic_truth_ministries]

I believe in God and the Holy Bible.

Which Bible? Then we can discuss which god.

[easeltine]

I believe that the above person, (who is still on my ignore list), is a weird nut.

[truth_child]

there is only one bible that is the kjv

[fatherofaking]

I believe belief is only believable when believed.

[orthodox]

Truth Child, I tolerate your assault on the computer keyboard you use. Attacking one's position by critiquing grammar is a false tool of debate.
But please explain how a medieval translation by order of a english king is somehow the one true text? Exactly what resources did they use to translate from? The Gideons had not started placing bibles in alehouses so that source is out.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were as yet undiscovered. So please, tell us from what great effort of research leads you to this remarkable claim? I'm sorry, but I think you are quite possibly the most proudly ignorant vocalist for a christian heresy I've yet encountered.
I have a norwegian blue parrot with more original lines than you.

[truth_child]

praise THE LORD

[orthodox]

An old chatty cathy doll has more lines than you.

[truth_child]

praise THE LORD AGAIN