Rose Creek Village...My experiences there

[earnestseeker]

Hello fellow friends in cyberspace....I've decided to go public....not out of bitterness but out of a sense of conscience ....I want people to be well-informed so they can make a well- informed decision.

Part of me hates to "go Public" with my story because part of me wants to visit this community in the future and I know I may experience further rejection....but that is ok....I am already experiencing being "cut off" from this group and the friends I made there. A couple of the "new" people will email me but all of the "veterans" that I made friends with will not email me.
The senior leader Noah will email me about once a month and has encouraged me to keep in touch. I think this group tries hard not to make enemies.

I researched "Rose Creek village" on the internet before I visited and only found a couple of people who wrote things about the group.

I strive to be fair...to share both the good and bad about myself and also the good and bad about the community. So persons can get a fair realistic view of what it is really like to live in the community.

I will say that I think Rose Creek Village (hereafter referred to as RCV) does not represent themselves clearly enough on their website, www.rosecreekvillage.com (http://www.rosecreekvillage.com). In the second paragraph of their home page they say they do not have a lot of rules. This is not true.
In the household I lived in there were a lot of rules. Something was said to me and my husband about how much ketchup we gave our children. A lot of things were scrutinized. Nothing was too small to talk about.

I actually got in trouble for going to a vacant mobile home (villagers go house to house freely and do not have to knock on the front door before they enter) and studying the bible. A woman long-term member came in as I was sitting at the kitchen table and reading the Bible and got very emotional, asking me why I was there without calling and asking permission to be there.

I was confused because I had lived there several months and seemed to be trusted (I was left alone with infants, etc.) and it was a known rule that all the houses were our homes...we did not have to knock on the front door, etc.

So I had to go through this emotional confrontation simply for wanting a quiet place to meditate on the scripture.

Actually not much scripture was really talked about in daily conversations...pet phrases were said a lot ...some of which: "Pain is good"...the senior leader's wife, Haviylah (Cynthia Taylor) coined this phrase...kinda funny, because she has worked in the past as a "Labor and Delivery Nurse"!:)
Another common saying: "We rip the flesh off one another"; "We need to get on the cross". "You must die to yourself".

This group is in Selmer on almost 100 acres....they have been in this location for eight or nine years. They go back further than this and have had some other names, but I don't recall all these details at this moment.

They were kicked off some piece of property in Bethel Springs, Tennessee and were in a desperate situation. One of their members had I think about 20k or so in savings and put this down on the almost 100 acres that they live on now.

They are like a workaholic group of people and emphasize the service part of christianity. They have obviously worked very hard in the past nine years to develop this acreage into what is now a very cute little "village".

You can see on their website the pretty green grass, children playing...they have a DVD that is to serve as an introduction to their village.

They do have love for one another but they tend to talk strongly and can be kinda rough with one another. I moved to the village with my husband and two young boys after just visiting a week.

Myself and my husband had visited one or two christian communities per year for about four years before finally settling on this one.
We lived in Arizona so it was very expensive and difficult to visit RCV in the midst of work and school, etc. So we took the plunge!

We sold or gave away most of our belongings, quit good jobs...my husband's employer was going to give him a nice raise for the coming school year and he sacrificed that....put our house up for sell and just took everything that would fit in two cars.

[bramble]

Hello! Welcome to FACTnet. I saw your post on CFCMI page. I would like to know more of your experiences with Rose Creek Village.

1) Are you still in Rose Creek Village?

2) In your opinion are they Christians? Why? or Why not?

3) Midwives are they qualified? That kind of caught my eye.

4) Do you believe Rose Creek Village to be a cult? or maybe a commune?

[earnestseeker]

Hello Bramble....
We left the village a couple of months ago....we lived there...me, my husband and my two young sons for about nine months.
I do think they are Christians....they do seem to believe in Christ and salvation although they do not formally talk hardly at all about this but prefer to focus on work, serving others and daily tasks and living.
Their midwives do go through the state required training....they had about three home births when I was there....Haviylah, Noah's wife is about 58 years old and she has a lot of experience. She quickly took her own daughter to the local hospital when there was myconium (spelling....the brownish discharge which indicates the baby has expelled feces in the womb because they are stressed)...so they do seem to know when to go to the hospital.

I hate to say they are a cult. I think some of what they do does qualify as cultlike behavior...especially the practice of "cutting off" practically everyone who leaves the village simply because the LEFT the village. I think the senior leader Noah is perhaps wanting to move away from this practice......he has continued to email me about once a month....but I don't think the rest of the group has caught up with him yet on this.
Most of the friends I had will not email me now simply because I have left....I think they are in the practice of doing this in the past.
This definitely looks like cultish behavior to me and I have told them this. I hope they can moderate because they do have a lot of good and I do think they have a lot of God fearing people there.
Their leadership style also bothers me and I challenge the way the leaders can tell people how to live.....we were not permitted to live outside the village and still be a part, for example. We were not permitted to live in another household when we requested this, etc.
Reba Fellowship in Evanston, IL is a Mennonite community I found....they have repented from the days when they were controlling and authoritarian and they now are not controlling but trust the Holy Spirit to work change in others. And they are very gentle in their communications....
I shared their book "Glimpses of Glory" with Noah and he said he would read it. they have changed over the years and I am hoping that God will convict them and that they will repent of some of their behaviors that qualify as cultish behaviors.

If they are a cult, they probably are the safest and nicest one out there.....

They have recently grown and I think it has stressed them out and gone to their head some....I have learned that it is typical for leaders of a group to become more authoritarian as a group gets larger....and probably less intimate and more regimented and impersonal and I think this is what has happened to this group.

I am thinking they may change in a couple of years and I told Noah we would reconsider joining them again if they did make some changes in the future.

Hope that helps you....I will write more in the future under the RCV thread.
Peace Out,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village.. my experiences Part Two
Hello again....I seem to have lost a whole page....I will try this again.

I am continuing on in this tedious task of describing in detail my experiences at Rose Creek Village. We did not go to the village in very good shape spiritually. I simply found "regular" churches dry and boring and did not think I could bring into the social circles there without going to 100 potlucks, etc. so I thought God had spoken to me that we needed a family-type environment with intimate christian friends to grow in God.

So I was not a regular church goer....I worked on the weekends as a nurse so I could be mom during the week. My hubby took the kids to church every Sunday and I encouraged him to do this. We have been careful to protect our kids and to give them christian teaching, etc.

So when I went to the village I was grappling with depression which I had been taking Zoloft 50 mg a day for ....for about two years....I had some kind of "pain" in my soul...for lack of a better description. I had adulterous relationships that I had not repented for....I thought I was doing a nice thing for my special friends....helping them to be happy.

I don't know how I came to believe that but that is just an example of how Satan can get you to decieve yourself. Anyway, you get the picture. I warned you I believe in being realistic and honest....if I am going to tell the nitty gritty truth about the village then I feel obligated to tell the same about myself to give a realistic picture.
I feel a little embarassed but this is what I force myself to do to maintain some kind of fairness or integrity.....or maybe just to abuse myself, I don't know.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. So when I came to the village I was either a carnal christian or not really saved.

I got in trouble like my second day....I was walking into the mobile home that I was given a temporary room in (I was given one of the LEADER'S rooms...Nathaniel and Rachel are their names....nice room but just average by American standards) they were gone on a trip to california to spend time with some people interested in RCV.

So I was walking into this mobile home my second day there and one of the more authoritative leaders named Chashaq was sitting on the porch...I don't remember talking to him at all before this...he gave me a very stern look and said to me "how come you are here without your husband?"

Well his manner made me mad. Mind you I grew up seeing my mother abused by a string of boyfriends and I vowed at a young age that I was not going to be abused. So I have never sought out dominating men.

So I lost my temper and said whatever I said. The conversation or whatever exchange it was ...was carried inside. Simchah a lady that lived in the mobile home said I was "throwing daggers" at Chashaq and Chashaq soon just laid down on the carpet and just looked at me. Simchah advised him to just leave.

Chashaq asked me if he could help me pack my car to leave and I said he could help us get our jobs back and he could pick up all the pieces of my shattered hope and put that in the car. And then he left and I just started bawling which I rarely do. Simchah held me and another woman, Hashachar, came over and laid her hand on my head or something like that and then left.

Simchah is a single mother of four children...three of which are teens now. She had a military husband who did not want to stay a part of the village so he left and she stayed. I liked Simchah right off....she seemed to have depth and could be very affectionate but was very strong as well.
She seemed to like me a lot and said if I ever left she would come to get me herself.
Oddly just a few months after she said that I moved just a few miles outside of the village and she never came by to visit, never called...nothing. When I left the village physically she just dropped me like a hot potatoe and said that I had crossed some kind of line.

Of course she would probably say that the Holy Spirit had told her not to contact me. Everything is so justified. You can do or say about anything...just say the Holy Spirit told you to do it.

Anyway the next morning I was shaking I was so upset. There was to be a meeting with the leaders that morning.....I called for help.....I called Haviylah, Noah's wife, and told her I was in trouble and that I did not want to leave the village. She said to just act "small" and to not act "big" and to repent and tell them I wanted to stay.

Haviylah was a mother figure to me. She emailed me before I moved to the village and I checked my email several times a day. I was so lonely.
Traumatic events occurred when I was about eight or nine years old...my mother was married for six years and then her husband divorced her ....she was the perfect housewife and we were the perfect christian family.....and then she started doing marijuana or whatever and partying with the hippies and boyfriends and moving a lot.

When I was nine she was beat up pretty bad. I remember trying to figure out how to kill him and cursing him out. I thought "he can break my arm, but I can break his finger!) About that age I shut down and just withdrew and did my school work. I never did develop relationships after that age...

then discovered sex at 17 and how I could find intimacy easily with the opposite sex. I did not have real relationships....just you know what buddies...keeping my friend for about three months and then we just parted ways....no fighting or arguing....just an understanding that it was just a casual relationship.

And I was suicidal from 17 to 24....attempting suicide a few times, thinking a lot about death and about how I could off myself.....as a kid I went to church all the time until at 17 I got depressed because my younger siblings were taken away from my mom by the state, etc.

My mom told me her problems were due to poverty and I believed this for a long time. So I got two bachelor degrees, determined that I was not going to be poor.

So you get the picture...I've had some mental health issues....emotional problems. But I fit in OK.

So living at the village was a big jump. The intimate informal environment brought up all kinds of emotions in me and at times I acted out with anger, etc. Most of the time I did great because I do have a great work ethic if I am not too depressed.

But Haviylah was important to me. My first day she escorted me to the mobile home I was to stay at and I asked her "are you and Noah like pastors?" She said "No...I'm your MOM".

So I really craved a close relationship with her. She was a nurse like myself and I just really liked her. I continued to email her even at the village because I soon learned she was extremely popular and hard to get time with.
I thought if I tried hard enough I could have a relationship with her so I emailed her and told her I would like to spend one hour a week cooking with her or something. She basicly ignored this request. I kept pursuing her like I would a boyfriend or something, though....thinking if I tried hard enough things would work out.

but I never was able to develop this close, secure relationship with her. A one point we talked about it and she said I had unrealistic expectations.

So you can see how socially I started drowning right off. I tried to reach out for help to persons like Haviylah, etc. but their only solution to everything is just to cook, clean house, etc.....to serve. They have not evolved into accepting christian counseling as a viable alternative.
I think I was too much of a case for them to know what to do with or to CARE what to do with.
They have grown in the past year or two and I think the leaders have likewise grown more authoritative and less intimate.

Haviy....also called "Ammah"...which means "mother" is 58 years old....very attractive, fairly sweet person....she did counsel me more than any other leader....I really only had maybe two or three hours with the leaders....mostly Noah or Chashaq and this was mostly during some big leader meeting where I was being talked to.

So normal relationship building time.....just talking or driniing coffee together....like I heard they used to do.....was not available. I felt like I could not accept such authoritative stuff without first at least getting to know the person trying to take over my decision making power.
so I was struggling with the leader thing. As Noah said forcefully in a "gathering"...their word for church: "This is not a democracy!"

But I actually did get a little bit of time with Haviy....not really that much either, but definitely more than any other "leader". She did help me a lot...she shared some of her checkered past with me and she talked with me about my sexual sins.....She said once when we were in a discussion about sex addiction...."Sex is for making babies" and then added that this eventually wanes in a marriage.

For some reason that simple statement really did something for me and I think about that statement quite often. With my two degrees you would think that such a common sense statement would mean very little.
But in our society today sex is such a BIG deal....synonymous with love or something.

I remember as a kid how important boyfriends were to my mom...and still are. And then the man who taught me how to french kiss at nine....luckily I eventually told my mother and things stopped. I am lucky that is all that happened to me.
Then the rock and roll and the movies and the seventh grade rock and roll dance. I didn't have a chance. Neither do kids these days.....it is like the Bible says "....perverse and wicked generation".....

So I had to face my sexual sins and I had to turn and accept some of those oldfashioned outdated sayings, etc. and acknowledge the wickedness of my ways. Not an easy thing to do.
So I grappled with pain and guilt and felt dirty, etc. And I eventually confessed to my husband who surprisingly forgave me and was super blessed that I trusted him enough to confess such things to him.

He is so sweet....if I murdered a cop or something he would say "well...they had it coming"....well, maybe not ....but you get the idea:).

Anyway I do think I was delivered of the spirit of lust there. I had some really strong thoughts go through my mind after a heated discussion with the senior leader Noah. It scared me. He did not do anything wrong really but there was the typical hugging....and I've always had a soft spot for older men since I did not have a daddy.

So I got really freaked out over this and had trouble for a several weeks with fantasies, etc.....so I confessed to Haviylah to embarass myself into not having these thoughts, etc.

Of course I eventually was able to stop the thoughts but you can see what an embarassing tiring ordeal this was. And it put further strain on my relationship with Haviy which was frustrating.

So you may be relieved to know that Noah is not into physical church. He may have had a problem in the past, I do not know....I doubt it. He does have that friendly personality....typical of persons who have those kind of problems, but he does not have any problems currently...I strongly believe this. He is 61 so he may have matured or may have never had those problems.

So I was delivered from the spirit of lust, I quit listening to rock and roll, I matured some socially and emotionally.....so I did get something spiritually at the village.....my marriage is much stronger and healthier....we learned parenting skills....I learned to be a better homemaker.....I came face to face with some of my demons, literally.
So there was a lot of good that came out of my time there.

I will continue on with this journaling at a later date!!

Thanks for reading!! God Bless you...my his love, peace, grace, mercy
be with you....remember God's mercies are new every morning and we all can come to God through Christ who shed His blood that we might be redeemed in spite of our sins.

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village...my experiences Part 3
Hello again....I will continue in my task of detailing my experiences at Rose Creek Village so persons may know what it is like to actually live there...I have learned how to simply post a continuation in the form of a reply and therefore making this in better order and easier to read.

Part Three.....

About my fourth or fifth day at the village I tried to express myself to a couple of women that I was living with and I did not do a good job of communicating because they became very upset and one young woman who had just arrived there a couple of days before me....(she was going through withdrawals from cocaine I later learned and had come to the village fresh out of jail....she was a single mom of a cute little girl just around age two)
Anyway this young woman called the leaders on me because I was saying that I did not expect anyone to watch my kids and that I would watch my own kids.....another older woman that I was living with kept saying "I can't watch your kids" even when I was not asking her to watch my two sons.
I got frustrated because for several years since my children were born no one really helped us with our kids at all...my husband and I always took care of them ourselves with practically no babysitters. so now this woman seemed defensive like I expected her to take care of my sons or something.
so I must have said something too strong or too angry because both of these women really freaked out when I tried to express myself. I really did not mean to offend anyone....I really was just trying to communicate and then I got myself into another emotional, stressful mess.

Chashaq and Noah came over again....they led me outside where they sat a few yards away from me....Chashaq way over to my left side and Noah way out in front of me....strange way to sit and talk, really. I think the whole object of this meeting was to see if they could get me to leave.
Noah offered me two hundred dollars to leave with (I kinda smirked at this on the inside....it had cost us so much more than this to move there).
And he asked me why I had come there.....which irritated me because I
had stated my sincere spiritual intentions of going deeper with God, etc.

So I felt like my sincerity was being challenged and this was frustrating since I am a very open, honest person. I had told Noah's wife via email before I came there that I was struggling with some depression, on Zoloft daily and that I had come out of problems with adultery. So I was totally up front and so I did not know why I was asked repeatedly why I had come there.

Anyway we talked and I apologized, trying to explain that I did not mean to upset anyone. Later I came to realize that the young woman who called Noah was a favorite of his...she was the daughter of a long time member there and had been a very troubled youth.
So he feared I would be a bad influence on her.

The young woman pursued a friendship with me and I spent some time with her late at night, drinking a little wine. she would try to get me to drink more and the first time I got a little intoxicated (I'm an easy drunk...I don't usually drink much alcohol at all)....so the second time around I just pretended to drink and so I did not become intoxicated....in fact I prevented this woman from driving simchah's suv when she had had too much and tried to drive.
So I actually did something GOOD.

So anyway after I got in trouble and had a leader meeting the second time I was pretty upset.....I remember hurting a lot but I kept trying to live at this village. Like a bull in a china shop.

I went around smiling at everyone and talking briefly with people....I think people really liked me although I probably did not realize this. One thing I have noticed is now I am able to see that people really do like me and to feel accepted where as before my village experience I really did not realize that people liked me....always felt like an outsider.

So that is good. I think I could go to a "regular" church now and develop relationships....I guess I have just opened up socially and emotionally and have matured some.

So at the village I was very sweet and tried to get along with everyone and to work and help out as much as I could....I seemed to have a "blow up" about once every two months. I think I really wanted to develop some intimate friendships but did not quite know how.....

So I lived there about eight months....after the first two weeks I was moved into the "household of Tabach"....Tabach is married man in his fifties....has been a long time member with his wife Hash. He has had experience as a police officer and as a plumber. Both he and his wife seem to be workaholic types....always doing something.

Also in our household (we lived in a doublewide with an addition that had been added on) was Nacham and Greg....a married couple who had been with the village a very long time as well....?maybe twelve or fifteen years..? Like Tabach and Hash they had about eight kids or something like that. One of their sons about the age of thirteen had been moved to the leader Chashaq's household because he had had some problems...like looking at violent pornography online, etc.

Within few weeks of us moving in this household Greg was moved to a mobile home with this troubled teen son of his and about three other adults...Anavah...an older woman who had been there a long time and who liked to give counsel when asked....and a married couple...Zeke and Naqi (Naqi actually has a masters in psychology or counseling).

Nacham decided Greg should not have visitation with his other children for the several weeks that he was moved "up the hill" to help his older son....she said he needed to be focused on what he was doing. So Greg was later seen walking by our mobile home around "the circle"...looking very disturbed at not being able to see his two year old son and wife and other sons for several weeks.

Greg was being spoken to very strongly by leaders and whoever else....they wanted him to be more spiritual ...to do more with his kids, etc....to "come up" in some things. He seemed like a very good man by worldly standards....he always worked....was a good worker....was friendly and fairly soft spoken. But what was said to me was that this couple had had a history of not being responsible or totally there for their children.

The thirteen year old son being worked with....at one point I heard that he had just curled up in the fetal position in response to all the "help" he was getting. It must have been pretty intense undergoing all that counseling from the adults. This teen was separated from his peers for a period of time....he would do homework all day at the warehouse where one of the businesses was ran. He did finally get to rejoin his peers and everyone clapped and applauded at one of the gatherings.


Nacham it was said used to not do the dishes until they were all dirty, etc....had one of her older children take care and be mother to some of the younger children.
Nacham was very intense and very diligent during the time I was there, so she obviously had changed. I was concerned about one of the boys...Joseph....Nacham seemed overly harsh with him and she was never that affectionate with him ....at least not to my standards. Sometimes early in the morning Joseph....about 11 years old...would be sleepy and he would not hold his fork right or something and she would take his breakfast away.
I hated this because the boy was pretty skinny already. I don't think anything was severe enough to constitute "child abuse" by social workers standards, but I do hope this child turns out ok. I wanted to take him out for ice cream or something special but his mother did not feel comfortable with that.
This child wanted to hold my hand some, etc. and I felt awkward and did not know what to do about this so I asked Haviylah and Chashaq what to do.
There had recently been a long standing member who had been taken to the sheriff's office by the leaders for doing something sexually inappropriate toward a child. I don't know the details...I think I heard later that whatever he did was not severe enough to constitute a crime...but the man was locked up for a time, banned from the village, cut off from any contact and sent for counseling.

This was the first incident of this kind and the village was very upset about it. A meeting was called with all the adults. So their sexual code is very strict...definitely holds up to Biblical standards.

So I did not know what to do with this eleven year old who seemed to have a crush on me or something. Haviylah said he was too young for this and helped give me some guidelines on what to do when he took my hand, etc. I did not have very much experience with teens....my oldest is just eight now.

Then there was a single woman named Kitra that lived in our household. she was in her forties and her three kids were grown. She had a history of extreme child abuse and carried a lot of guilt for not being a good enough mother. One of her sons is in his early twenties and has had some trouble.
He visited once and he was very sweet...he spent quality time with his mother...it was sweet.

The atmosphere in our household was very intense. There was about 10 kids ranging in age from two to twelve...and six boys...two of which were mine. At times especially in the morning the noise and rambunctiousness got on my nerves.
I often asked my sons to be quiet, especially in the morning and Kitra said she thought this meant that I really did not want to be the mother of my sons. or that I resented having to be mom or something. so you can see how every little thing was scrutinized.

I had never been a homemaker before and I had some emotional problems with not working....I had always worked and my mom had stopped homemaking, cooking, etc. after her divorce when I was about eight years old so homemaking was not valued much. I seemed to have a problem with cooking and cleaning....probably just a carryover from an attitude my mother had about those womanly tasks.

So this was difficult....I did not feel good about not working. I wanted to do this life though so I tried my best.....there was a schedule....a cook schedule where we took turns cooking...a clean up schedule where we supervised clean up....We would get up around 6am and things would keep going until late at night. I soon felt overwhelmed with the intensity of this homemaking....
Schedules even on the weekend. I wanted to relax and felt I could not. I shared in one of our meetings that I was not relaxed enough in my household and Hash told me that I had been very happy there....basicly telling me what my feelings were. Hash was really very judgemental, not that good at listening (she always had a cell phone up to her ear....she was constantly doing some work on a laptop...she was Chashaq's secretary) and she seemed to want to control everyone....especially me, I felt.
Every day Hash would make up a new schedule or try to tweak something. I admired her but her loud voice and intense personality also got on my nerves. I actually got in trouble with her once for trying to help do some of her laundry. She explained to me that I should have asked.
My self esteem seemed to reach dangerously low levels...and my depression seemed to worsen at some points. some times I was very happy...the sense of belonging....the love I felt for my new family....the security of having persons close.....and then at other times I remember hurting and wanting help and not knowing how to get it.

Toward the end of my time there I became very upset because my husband was upset that he had received a one page write up from his boss, Teshuva. Teshuva used to be a police officer and he was well known for enforcing rules. Anyway my husband was well known for being one of the best workers they had and he had just answered his cell phone at work when it was not break time. It was me calling....he was very concerned about me because he knew I was having emotional problems trying to adjust to this life.

So Teshuva just skipped the verbal warning that was really due as a first measure (all he had to do was just verbally and nicely mention this to phil and phil who is so over sensitive about his job performance would have responded to this)....and wrote up this one page reprimand for answering his phone. I read the letter and became very upset.

I said so this is how it is....the guys in authority who lord it over the peons...this is what this life is all about? I was very upset and tried to leave in my car but Tabach and Hash did not want me to go and persuaded me to talk some more...at which time I said horrible things about just leaving the kids and Phil there because I felt like the kids would get better parenting, etc. there then what I could give them. And I would just work and send money. I did not mean all this I was just horribly upset and exploding.

So I left for a couple of days and then Tabach told me that the leaders and him and whoever had decided that I had to stay outside the village for a week and have limited time with my family ...and to think everything over, etc.

So I spent a week in a cheap motel (that is all we could afford...with me staying at home we had to file bankruptcy)...I wound up being in the room next to another long time member who had decided to leave the village...he was an older single man in his 50s who struggled with alcoholism...he was an extremely good worker....he said he had felt he had been spoken to harshly by some housemates and he seemed like he was not getting whatever he needed.
He had decided to attend a church service at a nearby local church and Chashaq had told him he could not do this and he walked several miles to attend this service anyway. So Chashaq was upset with him over this and he asked the leaders how he could leave the village.
So the leaders helped him take his stuff to a local motel and paid up a week I think.
So he was drinking and not doing well when I was there. I tried to help him spiritually....he had to spend some time under the bridge homeless I think and then some people from a local church helped him survive until the village took him back. He said the leaders told him he had to stay out of the village 30 days.

Anyway I became very depressed in the motel for a week....I felt like my mental health was declining and that I was close to a nervous breakdown. As a professional I have learned to hide my emotions so people maybe could not tell all that I had been going through for the past eight months.
I had emailed Haviylah a lot and it should have been clear the emotional trouble I was having but she was very busy with ?eight grandbabies, two daughters, etc.
She is a very matter of fact person that says "pain is good" and then goes on to do something....strong, workaholic type...so if you tell her you are hurting or depressed she is not likely to advise counseling, etc. but will simply direct you to go wash dishes or something.
In one of our womens' meetings it was strongly said "we are made to clean and to take care of the children.
I had emotional problems about being a woman there. I really missed my work and was jealous that the men got to keep something of their lives...got to leave the house and the village some and to achieve something while us women were at the house seven days a week....

The leaders were constantly being bragged on and I felt like they were lucky and had the more interesting job. They got to travel, to talk to a lot of people, to make decisions and to have some authority. And they were so respected and admired. Noah would often talk about how busy they were, etc.
My husband tried to talk to Noah and Noah never made time to talk with him. Except in some big intimidating leader meeting.

There were meetings held while I was in the motel for a week....my husband said I needed counseling...whether inside or outside the village an requested that I have time with some of the women that I trusted...time to talk with them on a regular basis.
They said I did not need to talk that I just needed to submit and go back to the same household and stay more inside that household than ever before.

They just seemed to think I was attention seeking and just rebellious.

If they are not careful I am afraid they are going to make the same mistake that Reba Fellowship made....push someone too far until they commit suicide. I think if I had stayed there another year continuing to go through what I was going through with out help I would have had a mental breakdown or maybe even committed suicide.

I deeply loved those people and looked at them like my family. I do not think they cared much about us. So what they say about laying down you life, etc....that is just a one way thing.

So I never went back to the village because I knew my mental health was deteriorating and they would not allow me to have counseling.....I just felt condemned, rejected.
My husband sent me to Reba Fellowship where I stayed for a couple of weeks....a Mennonite community in Evanston, IL....they have a website..
they were very sweet and gentle and one of their older ministers took a lot of time to pray and talk with me. They helped me a lot.

We are now in Phoenix AZ living in a motel in a bad area with about a thousand dollars in cash and no credit cards because we have filed bankruptcy. We eat at the shelters just one or two miles away.

Phil has a job offer...I think he is going to be offered a position as a teacher for the Fall. My previous employer thinks I am nuts for joining a cult and does not seem too interested in rehiring me. But I am a nurse and the desparate nursing homes will hire me. I have already been offered a job for 24 hours a week at a nursing home.

So we are rebuilding our lives. I plan on getting counseling as soon as I can afford it. I felt a lot of pain for several weeks after leaving the village...the pain of rejection....the pain of reliving the loss of a father figure.....my experiences there seemed to open up childhood wounds that had never healed.....I felt like a child there.....

I do better if I have some independence, some control over my life.

I wish I could have been a part of that family.....but there were so many strings attached. I told Noah if they ever moderated and allowed people to live outside the village to let me know.

We had asked to live outside for a year or two and for me to spend half days there helping with the homeschooling of the kids and giving my children time to socialize with the other children. I explained that I needed this emotional space and time to develop trust, etc. I could not easily trust.
The answer was no. In fact Chashaq would not let my son have his workbooks so he could finish the curriculum for that year. I asked if my son could say good bye to his class and the answer was no.

We would be allowed to live outside and Phil could keep working with the brothers and as a family we could go to gatherings but could not speak at the gatherings.

No one visited us at our house except for a single man who was waiting for the brothers to come by and pick him up after work.
No one called us. No one cared.

So much for their version of LOVE.

I did get a deeper understanding of how Jesus must have felt when he was rejected and outcast.

I feel like I can go on and be ok. I am a survivor. I did not stay long enough and my defenses were strong enough to kick in before I was harmed too much.....
I will go to a church and pursue friendship and God and all those good things and we will rebuild. God loves us and god loves the village. I try to forgive everything...I know I was not perfect and I feel sorry for a lot of the people at the village.
Especially the women ....they just work, work, work all the time...seven days a week.
Anyway....enough shared for now....I will go on with life and thank God for this beautiful day.
God Bless all you who took time to read this....
Peace, Love, Joy, Grace and Mercy to you,
earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village...my experiences Part 3
Hello again....I will continue in my task of detailing my experiences at Rose Creek Village so persons may know what it is like to actually live there...I have learned how to simply post a continuation in the form of a reply and therefore making this in better order and easier to read.

Part Three.....

About my fourth or fifth day at the village I tried to express myself to a couple of women that I was living with and I did not do a good job of communicating because they became very upset and one young woman who had just arrived there a couple of days before me....(she was going through withdrawals from cocaine I later learned and had come to the village fresh out of jail....she was a single mom of a cute little girl just around age two)
Anyway this young woman called the leaders on me because I was saying that I did not expect anyone to watch my kids and that I would watch my own kids.....another older woman that I was living with kept saying "I can't watch your kids" even when I was not asking her to watch my two sons.
I got frustrated because for several years since my children were born no one really helped us with our kids at all...my husband and I always took care of them ourselves with practically no babysitters. so now this woman seemed defensive like I expected her to take care of my sons or something.
so I must have said something too strong or too angry because both of these women really freaked out when I tried to express myself. I really did not mean to offend anyone....I really was just trying to communicate and then I got myself into another emotional, stressful mess.

Chashaq and Noah came over again....they led me outside where they sat a few yards away from me....Chashaq way over to my left side and Noah way out in front of me....strange way to sit and talk, really. I think the whole object of this meeting was to see if they could get me to leave.
Noah offered me two hundred dollars to leave with (I kinda smirked at this on the inside....it had cost us so much more than this to move there).
And he asked me why I had come there.....which irritated me because I
had stated my sincere spiritual intentions of going deeper with God, etc.

So I felt like my sincerity was being challenged and this was frustrating since I am a very open, honest person. I had told Noah's wife via email before I came there that I was struggling with some depression, on Zoloft daily and that I had come out of problems with adultery. So I was totally up front and so I did not know why I was asked repeatedly why I had come there.

Anyway we talked and I apologized, trying to explain that I did not mean to upset anyone. Later I came to realize that the young woman who called Noah was a favorite of his...she was the daughter of a long time member there and had been a very troubled youth.
So he feared I would be a bad influence on her.

The young woman pursued a friendship with me and I spent some time with her late at night, drinking a little wine. she would try to get me to drink more and the first time I got a little intoxicated (I'm an easy drunk...I don't usually drink much alcohol at all)....so the second time around I just pretended to drink and so I did not become intoxicated....in fact I prevented this woman from driving simchah's suv when she had had too much and tried to drive.
So I actually did something GOOD.

So anyway after I got in trouble and had a leader meeting the second time I was pretty upset.....I remember hurting a lot but I kept trying to live at this village. Like a bull in a china shop.

I went around smiling at everyone and talking briefly with people....I think people really liked me although I probably did not realize this. One thing I have noticed is now I am able to see that people really do like me and to feel accepted where as before my village experience I really did not realize that people liked me....always felt like an outsider.

So that is good. I think I could go to a "regular" church now and develop relationships....I guess I have just opened up socially and emotionally and have matured some.

So at the village I was very sweet and tried to get along with everyone and to work and help out as much as I could....I seemed to have a "blow up" about once every two months. I think I really wanted to develop some intimate friendships but did not quite know how.....

So I lived there about eight months....after the first two weeks I was moved into the "household of Tabach"....Tabach is married man in his fifties....has been a long time member with his wife Hash. He has had experience as a police officer and as a plumber. Both he and his wife seem to be workaholic types....always doing something.

Also in our household (we lived in a doublewide with an addition that had been added on) was Nacham and Greg....a married couple who had been with the village a very long time as well....?maybe twelve or fifteen years..? Like Tabach and Hash they had about eight kids or something like that. One of their sons about the age of thirteen had been moved to the leader Chashaq's household because he had had some problems...like looking at violent pornography online, etc.

Within few weeks of us moving in this household Greg was moved to a mobile home with this troubled teen son of his and about three other adults...Anavah...an older woman who had been there a long time and who liked to give counsel when asked....and a married couple...Zeke and Naqi (Naqi actually has a masters in psychology or counseling).

Nacham decided Greg should not have visitation with his other children for the several weeks that he was moved "up the hill" to help his older son....she said he needed to be focused on what he was doing. So Greg was later seen walking by our mobile home around "the circle"...looking very disturbed at not being able to see his two year old son and wife and other sons for several weeks.

Greg was being spoken to very strongly by leaders and whoever else....they wanted him to be more spiritual ...to do more with his kids, etc....to "come up" in some things. He seemed like a very good man by worldly standards....he always worked....was a good worker....was friendly and fairly soft spoken. But what was said to me was that this couple had had a history of not being responsible or totally there for their children.

The thirteen year old son being worked with....at one point I heard that he had just curled up in the fetal position in response to all the "help" he was getting. It must have been pretty intense undergoing all that counseling from the adults. This teen was separated from his peers for a period of time....he would do homework all day at the warehouse where one of the businesses was ran. He did finally get to rejoin his peers and everyone clapped and applauded at one of the gatherings.


Nacham it was said used to not do the dishes until they were all dirty, etc....had one of her older children take care and be mother to some of the younger children.
Nacham was very intense and very diligent during the time I was there, so she obviously had changed. I was concerned about one of the boys...Joseph....Nacham seemed overly harsh with him and she was never that affectionate with him ....at least not to my standards. Sometimes early in the morning Joseph....about 11 years old...would be sleepy and he would not hold his fork right or something and she would take his breakfast away.
I hated this because the boy was pretty skinny already. I don't think anything was severe enough to constitute "child abuse" by social workers standards, but I do hope this child turns out ok. I wanted to take him out for ice cream or something special but his mother did not feel comfortable with that.
This child wanted to hold my hand some, etc. and I felt awkward and did not know what to do about this so I asked Haviylah and Chashaq what to do.
There had recently been a long standing member who had been taken to the sheriff's office by the leaders for doing something sexually inappropriate toward a child. I don't know the details...I think I heard later that whatever he did was not severe enough to constitute a crime...but the man was locked up for a time, banned from the village, cut off from any contact and sent for counseling.

This was the first incident of this kind and the village was very upset about it. A meeting was called with all the adults. So their sexual code is very strict...definitely holds up to Biblical standards.

So I did not know what to do with this eleven year old who seemed to have a crush on me or something. Haviylah said he was too young for this and helped give me some guidelines on what to do when he took my hand, etc. I did not have very much experience with teens....my oldest is just eight now.

Then there was a single woman named Kitra that lived in our household. she was in her forties and her three kids were grown. She had a history of extreme child abuse and carried a lot of guilt for not being a good enough mother. One of her sons is in his early twenties and has had some trouble.
He visited once and he was very sweet...he spent quality time with his mother...it was sweet.

The atmosphere in our household was very intense. There was about 10 kids ranging in age from two to twelve...and six boys...two of which were mine. At times especially in the morning the noise and rambunctiousness got on my nerves.
I often asked my sons to be quiet, especially in the morning and Kitra said she thought this meant that I really did not want to be the mother of my sons. or that I resented having to be mom or something. so you can see how every little thing was scrutinized.

I had never been a homemaker before and I had some emotional problems with not working....I had always worked and my mom had stopped homemaking, cooking, etc. after her divorce when I was about eight years old so homemaking was not valued much. I seemed to have a problem with cooking and cleaning....probably just a carryover from an attitude my mother had about those womanly tasks.

So this was difficult....I did not feel good about not working. I wanted to do this life though so I tried my best.....there was a schedule....a cook schedule where we took turns cooking...a clean up schedule where we supervised clean up....We would get up around 6am and things would keep going until late at night. I soon felt overwhelmed with the intensity of this homemaking....
Schedules even on the weekend. I wanted to relax and felt I could not. I shared in one of our meetings that I was not relaxed enough in my household and Hash told me that I had been very happy there....basicly telling me what my feelings were. Hash was really very judgemental, not that good at listening (she always had a cell phone up to her ear....she was constantly doing some work on a laptop...she was Chashaq's secretary) and she seemed to want to control everyone....especially me, I felt.
Every day Hash would make up a new schedule or try to tweak something. I admired her but her loud voice and intense personality also got on my nerves. I actually got in trouble with her once for trying to help do some of her laundry. She explained to me that I should have asked.
My self esteem seemed to reach dangerously low levels...and my depression seemed to worsen at some points. some times I was very happy...the sense of belonging....the love I felt for my new family....the security of having persons close.....and then at other times I remember hurting and wanting help and not knowing how to get it.

Toward the end of my time there I became very upset because my husband was upset that he had received a one page write up from his boss, Teshuva. Teshuva used to be a police officer and he was well known for enforcing rules. Anyway my husband was well known for being one of the best workers they had and he had just answered his cell phone at work when it was not break time. It was me calling....he was very concerned about me because he knew I was having emotional problems trying to adjust to this life.

So Teshuva just skipped the verbal warning that was really due as a first measure (all he had to do was just verbally and nicely mention this to phil and phil who is so over sensitive about his job performance would have responded to this)....and wrote up this one page reprimand for answering his phone. I read the letter and became very upset.

I said so this is how it is....the guys in authority who lord it over the peons...this is what this life is all about? I was very upset and tried to leave in my car but Tabach and Hash did not want me to go and persuaded me to talk some more...at which time I said horrible things about just leaving the kids and Phil there because I felt like the kids would get better parenting, etc. there then what I could give them. And I would just work and send money. I did not mean all this I was just horribly upset and exploding.

So I left for a couple of days and then Tabach told me that the leaders and him and whoever had decided that I had to stay outside the village for a week and have limited time with my family ...and to think everything over, etc.

So I spent a week in a cheap motel (that is all we could afford...with me staying at home we had to file bankruptcy)...I wound up being in the room next to another long time member who had decided to leave the village...he was an older single man in his 50s who struggled with alcoholism...he was an extremely good worker....he said he had felt he had been spoken to harshly by some housemates and he seemed like he was not getting whatever he needed.
He had decided to attend a church service at a nearby local church and Chashaq had told him he could not do this and he walked several miles to attend this service anyway. So Chashaq was upset with him over this and he asked the leaders how he could leave the village.
So the leaders helped him take his stuff to a local motel and paid up a week I think.
So he was drinking and not doing well when I was there. I tried to help him spiritually....he had to spend some time under the bridge homeless I think and then some people from a local church helped him survive until the village took him back. He said the leaders told him he had to stay out of the village 30 days.

Anyway I became very depressed in the motel for a week....I felt like my mental health was declining and that I was close to a nervous breakdown. As a professional I have learned to hide my emotions so people maybe could not tell all that I had been going through for the past eight months.
I had emailed Haviylah a lot and it should have been clear the emotional trouble I was having but she was very busy with ?eight grandbabies, two daughters, etc.
She is a very matter of fact person that says "pain is good" and then goes on to do something....strong, workaholic type...so if you tell her you are hurting or depressed she is not likely to advise counseling, etc. but will simply direct you to go wash dishes or something.
In one of our womens' meetings it was strongly said "we are made to clean and to take care of the children.
I had emotional problems about being a woman there. I really missed my work and was jealous that the men got to keep something of their lives...got to leave the house and the village some and to achieve something while us women were at the house seven days a week....

The leaders were constantly being bragged on and I felt like they were lucky and had the more interesting job. They got to travel, to talk to a lot of people, to make decisions and to have some authority. And they were so respected and admired. Noah would often talk about how busy they were, etc.
My husband tried to talk to Noah and Noah never made time to talk with him. Except in some big intimidating leader meeting.

There were meetings held while I was in the motel for a week....my husband said I needed counseling...whether inside or outside the village an requested that I have time with some of the women that I trusted...time to talk with them on a regular basis.
They said I did not need to talk that I just needed to submit and go back to the same household and stay more inside that household than ever before.

They just seemed to think I was attention seeking and just rebellious.

If they are not careful I am afraid they are going to make the same mistake that Reba Fellowship made....push someone too far until they commit suicide. I think if I had stayed there another year continuing to go through what I was going through with out help I would have had a mental breakdown or maybe even committed suicide.

I deeply loved those people and looked at them like my family. I do not think they cared much about us. So what they say about laying down you life, etc....that is just a one way thing.

So I never went back to the village because I knew my mental health was deteriorating and they would not allow me to have counseling.....I just felt condemned, rejected.
My husband sent me to Reba Fellowship where I stayed for a couple of weeks....a Mennonite community in Evanston, IL....they have a website..
they were very sweet and gentle and one of their older ministers took a lot of time to pray and talk with me. They helped me a lot.

We are now in Phoenix AZ living in a motel in a bad area with about a thousand dollars in cash and no credit cards because we have filed bankruptcy. We eat at the shelters just one or two miles away.

Phil has a job offer...I think he is going to be offered a position as a teacher for the Fall. My previous employer thinks I am nuts for joining a cult and does not seem too interested in rehiring me. But I am a nurse and the desparate nursing homes will hire me. I have already been offered a job for 24 hours a week at a nursing home.

So we are rebuilding our lives. I plan on getting counseling as soon as I can afford it. I felt a lot of pain for several weeks after leaving the village...the pain of rejection....the pain of reliving the loss of a father figure.....my experiences there seemed to open up childhood wounds that had never healed.....I felt like a child there.....

I do better if I have some independence, some control over my life.

I wish I could have been a part of that family.....but there were so many strings attached. I told Noah if they ever moderated and allowed people to live outside the village to let me know.

We had asked to live outside for a year or two and for me to spend half days there helping with the homeschooling of the kids and giving my children time to socialize with the other children. I explained that I needed this emotional space and time to develop trust, etc. I could not easily trust.
The answer was no. In fact Chashaq would not let my son have his workbooks so he could finish the curriculum for that year. I asked if my son could say good bye to his class and the answer was no.

We would be allowed to live outside and Phil could keep working with the brothers and as a family we could go to gatherings but could not speak at the gatherings.

No one visited us at our house except for a single man who was waiting for the brothers to come by and pick him up after work.
No one called us. No one cared.

So much for their version of LOVE.

I did get a deeper understanding of how Jesus must have felt when he was rejected and outcast.

I feel like I can go on and be ok. I am a survivor. I did not stay long enough and my defenses were strong enough to kick in before I was harmed too much.....
I will go to a church and pursue friendship and God and all those good things and we will rebuild. God loves us and god loves the village. I try to forgive everything...I know I was not perfect and I feel sorry for a lot of the people at the village.
Especially the women ....they just work, work, work all the time...seven days a week.
Anyway....enough shared for now....I will go on with life and thank God for this beautiful day.
God Bless all you who took time to read this....
Peace, Love, Joy, Grace and Mercy to you,
earnestseeker
Rose Creek Village Part 4

Hi friends.....
And then there are moments like the one I am experiencing now.....the pain, the aching of the heart....much like a lover torn from the one he or she loves....now I am remembering a lot of the good times at the village....times when there was love.....

and then the frustration and the anger at people like Chashaq who did things like not letting my son have his workbook to complete his schoolyear....just utter lack of caring, seemingly big ego...just wanting someone like me to submit to what he wants or wanting to punish or whatever.......definitely not God.

And how can you accept things like that? You can't. You just have to go on and try to forgive and pray for your brothers and sisters. And remember that this life is only a very small piece of the total of eternity. Some day those of us who make it into His kingdom....we will all see truth clearly....only the Godhead..Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Which is NOT hard to understand....Shammah has said on the RCV website that the trinity is hard to understand....that is a little disturbing....especially when there is such talk of unity....I don't think it is hard to understand...there is the father, the son and the Holy Spirit and they are one.) My great grandfather had a horrible temper in his youth but in his old age he had mellowed and he studied Greek or Hebrew or whatever the original language of the Bible....he warned my mother when checking out a religious group to always make sure they believed in the Trinity.

I lost my thought..."And then the Godhead...the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will be the sole judges.....no more stupid humans attempting to dissect and direct one another.....just pure truth, pure love....for all eternity."

There are so many good Godfearing people there....there were a lot of good times there. The idealistic part of me is very angry and frustrated that things could not work out....that the gap cannot be bridged. It reminds me some of when my younger brother and sister were adopted out by the state....they were 7 and 9....then the separation.....and later as an adult trying to "bridge the gap".....my sister emails me some now and I am thankful for that, but it seems like that bridge will never exist as it should have existed and now there is not the time to build it.

Anyway, we must sometimes cry and allow ourselves to love deeply in spite of all the sin that fills this earth and taints our souls. It would be easiest just to hate and turn and never look back, shut out the pain. But that is not God's way.

God Bless you everyone, including Rose Creek Village.....may God help us all.

Peace out....thanks for reading,
earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village Part 4

Hi friends.....
And then there are moments like the one I am experiencing now.....the pain, the aching of the heart....much like a lover torn from the one he or she loves....now I am remembering a lot of the good times at the village....times when there was love.....

and then the frustration and the anger at people like Chashaq who did things like not letting my son have his workbook to complete his schoolyear....just utter lack of caring, seemingly big ego...just wanting someone like me to submit to what he wants or wanting to punish or whatever.......definitely not God.

And how can you accept things like that? You can't. You just have to go on and try to forgive and pray for your brothers and sisters. And remember that this life is only a very small piece of the total of eternity. Some day those of us who make it into His kingdom....we will all see truth clearly....only the Godhead..Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Which is NOT hard to understand....Shammah has said on the RCV website that the trinity is hard to understand....that is a little disturbing....especially when there is such talk of unity....I don't think it is hard to understand...there is the father, the son and the Holy Spirit and they are one.) My great grandfather had a horrible temper in his youth but in his old age he had mellowed and he studied Greek or Hebrew or whatever the original language of the Bible....he warned my mother when checking out a religious group to always make sure they believed in the Trinity.

I lost my thought..."And then the Godhead...the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will be the sole judges.....no more stupid humans attempting to dissect and direct one another.....just pure truth, pure love....for all eternity."

There are so many good Godfearing people there....there were a lot of good times there. The idealistic part of me is very angry and frustrated that things could not work out....that the gap cannot be bridged. It reminds me some of when my younger brother and sister were adopted out by the state....they were 7 and 9....then the separation.....and later as an adult trying to "bridge the gap".....my sister emails me some now and I am thankful for that, but it seems like that bridge will never exist as it should have existed and now there is not the time to build it.

Anyway, we must sometimes cry and allow ourselves to love deeply in spite of all the sin that fills this earth and taints our souls. It would be easiest just to hate and turn and never look back, shut out the pain. But that is not God's way.

God Bless you everyone, including Rose Creek Village.....may God help us all.

Peace out....thanks for reading,
earnestseeker
Rose Creek Village Part 5

Hi again....well here I am at 3 in the morning...up and pondering life and thinking about RCV again....you can see I am obviously not just a casual curious bystander but rather a person who really really tried to join this christian community with the intentions of devoting at least a decade or so of my life to it....if not my whole life.

I am thinking of an event which occurred early on in my time at RCV. It was my second or third week at the village....my husband had just arrived...been there about a week. We had met with Noah, Chashaq, and I think Gideon and Nathaniel (Gideon and Nathaniel are very quiet in the presence of meetings with Noah....
In fact I have noticed even the dominating Chashaq is very quiet when Noah is involved. Noah always did most of the talking both a gatherings of the village and when we had a leader meeting with him.

I had heard that maybe a year....year and a half ago or so...I'm not totally sure of the timeline....that Chashaq almost left the village. Noah did mention at a gathering that Chashaq had once resentfully asked Noah "Are you God?" and Noah had replied..."Yes I am!!"....I don't really think Noah intended to REALLY say that HE is God but that he was trying to make a point of some kind.

Anyway I noticed that most of the leaders are very silent even in gatherings...Noah definitely dominates. And Noah has recently confessed in a gathering that his leaders have had to put up with his not so good behavior.

I picture Noah really wanting his way....he has traveled a lot in the past year and finances at the village of recent have not been so great. They have had a lull in their businesses and a lot of their men have been laid off from businesses with the brothers and forced to seek out whatever meager paying jobs they can find....a lot of those forty minutes away at a little bit larger city since Selmer is basicly a little bitty town out in the middle of nowhere.

Once recently Noah said he intended to keep visiting the budding communities in Africa and India (there is also a new community in Rhode Island ....several months ago its leader....Ron Caliri...came to the village and during a "Love Feast" ceremony Ron kissed Noah and there was an asking for Noah's anointing to pass to Ron as he endeavored to lead the group in Rhode Island).

Anyway, Noah said he intended to keep visiting these communities which he feels responsible for....feels like they need him to get started, get organized, for encouragement, teaching, etc. Noah said even if they had to put second mortgages on their property then he was going to keep visiting these communities. And lets add in there England as well.

Noah and Haviylah and whoever else I do not know since I do not live there anymore..are in England now. Haviy was left in England while Noah went on to Africa...where you know there has been a lot of violence. Noah actually started working out several weeks before this trip, I guess so he could dodge bullets, etc.

He was injured in a recent trip....stepped in a crater in a sidewalk late at night while going to an internet cafe....he hurt his shoulder. He later said in a gathering that he thought God had injured his shoulder because he had not been in a good place spiritually.

Mind you the village believes that you can lose your salvation. They majorly fault "churches" ....church is practically a dirty word there...for promoting the culture that says you can act however during the week...just repent every Sunday. So they believe that salvation is a daily walk. That every day you must get up and decide to serve, etc. and that every day you have the potential for losing your salvation.

So about England....there was a single mother who visited with her two very young daughters a few months ago. This woman was obviously challenged with emotional problems....she had multiple scars on her forearms from self-mutilating behaviors...and I remember she cried a LOT.

She was very well liked....very. I think the village liked her feminine weakness...all the crying, etc. was acceptable. ....as opposed to someone like me who might cope by exploding every couple of months....(I find it very difficult to cry but I would like to cry more instead of losing my temper....I have started to do this more....but with the added stresses of my nursing job I don't know if I am going to be able to cry my frustrations out. You have to be so tough in the medical field...you can't just sit down and cry, so I may bottle my feelings up a lot again, I don't know).

Anyway Angie was there on a three-month visa or something and had to return to England and then was not OKed to return to our country. So she is stuck in England. So Noah, Haviylah and whoever else is visiting her there and then also Africa.

In the past year it seems like Noah has taken four or more trips to India and Africa...about a month-long each.....in the past year. Shammah frequently goes....Chashaq went once...Nathaniel (a leader) and his wife Rachel went once.

Noah recently announced in a gathering that he wanted to step down from issues involving the village....(he gave an example of youth asking him if they could watch a certain movie) and focus on India, Africa, Rhode Island.

Noah is obviously very hard driven. Haviylah has got him on a special diet to lose weight and on a lot of herbs.....so he can live a long time and fulfill the call that God has on his life. He is 61 years old.

As you know I fell in love with Noah...he can be very loving, charasmatic...has a very nice voice, etc. He reminded me of an adopted Dad that I had for a few years, mostly in my very early childhood.....I could never do enough to please my adopted Dad and he tended to be critical and distant (Noah once shared that his own father was this way.....recalling a time in his youth when he mowed the yard and his Dad found a few blades of grass that had been missed).

Noah has some very good qualities and is obviously the "father" of this community. But then Noah has a very sharp edge.....he can say some very harsh things that do not fit with a man of God.....for instance....once at a "new people's" meeting (all adults that had been there three years or less) he spoke about how other religious persons often asked for a statement of faith.....he said "I'm going to give them a statement of faith that MAKES THEIR EYES BLEED!!!".

Statements like that always bothered me.....and there was that part of me that felt threatened by Noah seeing this side of him. I really wanted to get to know him personally so I could figure him out but I did not get that opportunity. He is hard to spend time with.....will ask you to set an appointment, he often emphasizes how busy he is and how large the village is now.....saying he has 300 people to take care of (a lot of that number is infants).

Noah's daughters are having a lot of babies now....one daughter is having like her third baby...like one right after another.....something I think that disturbs me some because as a nurse I have been taught that a woman's body needs a couple of years to recover from pregnancy. I knew a young woman that had like four babies back to back and she became very ill, the doctors unable to diagnose what was wrong with her.

Sadly Noah just has one child out of four living that lives at the village. The other two daughters of his are Haviylah's adopted daughters (that is all the children she has....she was not able to have her own biological children, so she adopted).

Haviylah was single mother with these two young daughters when she met Noah. I can't bring myself to share everything....I don't want to embarass Haviylah....but she shared that she had been a nurse....and a worldly person.....and then decided to learn how to be a godly woman. So she listened to Bible tapes a lot, inbetween working and caring for her children.

Then she met Noah and shared with him up front her worldy past. I think they got married in 1987, so they have been married for 21 years. I have been told that Haviylah struggled with "headship" in the early years......so I imagine her being like myself....independent ...trained to think for myself, etc.....and then having to learn to "submit" to a strong dominating husband like Noah.

I imagine Noah as having a lot of hurts from his first wife. I really was never told a lot of details about this (I asked Noah at one point to tell stories and share his life, etc. but there was never time for this). I know his first wife did not want to go along with his new religious vision. I know one daughter has had struggles with homosexuality....another daughter is very educated, successful.....the one he has at the village has had severe substance abuse problems in the future. His son is in his early twenties and he visited him recently.

So I picture Noah having a lot of hurts from his first wife .....maybe that is why he has such a need for women to be submissive, etc. I sent a challenging email to Noah a couple of weeks after my mother had a near-fatal accident.

My mother followed me to Selmer (she was part of our family....just 57 years old but with a history of substance abuse, etc. so she is physically disabled....had an alcohol related accident about 18 years ago)...just six days after her arrival she was hit by the back end of a trailer while trying to cross a poorly constructed street (it had high embankments on both sides and almost no shoulder to speak of....traffic converging from five different directions). She nearly died, fracturing two sides of her first vertebra and shattering her leg in three or more places....

Anyway I was used to caring for my mother. In fact I must say that she was one of the reasons for me seeking christian community. She would take too many pills and then run out of pain medicine and go through withdrawals and be very difficult, even abusive. So after years of trying to make sure she stayed alive and pulling her out of dangerous boyfriend situations, etc....I finally felt at the end of my rope with her and wished I had some other attachments besides her.

She has been one of my few long lasting deep relationships besides my dear husband of almost eleven years.

So after her accident I was torn because I felt powerless to care for her at the village. I was at the mercy of the village and whatever decisions they might make in my stead. I did not feel confident that the village wanted to care for her, and so the whole thing just made me nervous and stressed. I knew we were viewed as having a lot of problems......Noah had said we had a lot of problems in the very beginning....stressing the word problems in a negative tone.

But none of the leaders talked with me after my mom's near fatal accident. I felt like God had been working on my mother for thirty something years....and being an old hippie like a lot of the founding members of the village I had hopes that they might reach her for God.

But none of the leaders ever visited her. And not many of the villagers either. The women in my household have done a lot for her, however. They were there in the hospital a lot when the accident first happened and they have helped her a couple of times with rides.

But I sent a text message to Noah about how he did not seem to care about the little people, and whatever else I said. I am really a very shy person but I hide this well because I am a professional and I have learned to hide emotions, to be strong, or at least to look strong if nothing else.

My first nursing job the other nurses picked me to pieces....I learned the hard way to hide my insecurities and to hide them well lest you be torn to shreds piece by piece.

This text message seemed to make him very angry. He said he received it right before a big leader meeting at "Nachez Trace"...whatever that is....I guess that is the parklike area where the leaders rent a cabin or something every two months or whenever they need to have big decisionmaking talks or something.

I was told to go talk to Noah in person so I stomped up to his mobile home.....feeling nervous but trying to hide it. I really wanted to get to know people there...especially Noah and Haviylah but I really was very nervous and shy and did not know how to go about this in a constructive way. Looking back I think I sought negative attention because I did not have the confidence to ask for attention otherwise. Of course the other villagers....especially the ones at my household....were very protective of the leaders and constantly discouraged me from "bothering" them.

Of course in my own life my parents were very distant, neglectful....so this just reinforced those old feelings I think....I definitely did not have the confidence that anyone cared, etc. And I was right. I was viewed as someone who needed to be denied my own will, etc. I was not encouraged to seek any counsel but rather just to serve.

I knew this was not the primary thing I needed....I have always worked to the point of sacrificing any kind of social life, etc. So I knew I could do the work part if I could heal the emotional/spiritual side of myself......

Anyway I went to Noah's mobile home....I had not talked to him much since my arrival there nor did I ever actually talk to him much.....twice in the time I was there....about nine months....did I actually sit down and hold a conversation with him.

So this was one of those times....I barged in the front door....probably acting a bit aggressive because I was really just a nervous wreck....holding it all together like a good nurse does.....he was sitting on the sofa talking to Teshuva, his housemate.

He jumped up and we went out on the front porch and we had a very heated conversation.....We were both angry....I did not speak for long ....I just hung my head and played with my shoe as he chewed me out. I remember him saying that the other women there were respectful, etc....letting me know I did not fit his idea of how a woman should act.

I think he reminded me a lot of my adopted dad....I had not been chewed out like that for decades (I was 39 at the time), so it had been 20 something years since someone talked to me like that.

So anyway...he eventually got frustrated that Iwas not making eye contact and pushed his chair up right next to mine, making very aggressive eye contact. I had flashbacks of previous encounters with other lovers at that moment, and it was quite overpowering. So that is when my huge overpowering crush on Noah began.

I became quite disturbed a few days later over the event....remembering things that I had read on Factnet, etc. so I shakily set up a meeting with Haviylah....really very disturbed. I shared with her what had happened, careful not to implicate Noah but to just explain my background with men, etc. I did not want to slip into any kind of sinful stuff....not at that precious village, anyway....and I did not trust myself. And I certainly do not trust men with my background.

So I shared this with Haviy, feeling upset and she asked me if I wanted another baby....taking everything really well. I asked her if she could be present at any future talks and if Noah could stay three feet away from me during talks, etc. and she acted like this was a ridiculous request and explained that she trusted Noah completely ....that he was way above anything like that spiritually.....just to not tempt fate and be behind closed doors together.....

I shared with her again that I did have trouble with men in the past and suicidal ideation in my twenties, etc....emphasizing that I was a bit of a psych case in spite of my ability to fit in....my confident outgoing persona.

So I'm sure that this did not promote a good relationship and I certainly feel stupid about the whole thing. I guess I have always had a weakness for older men because I did not have a good father relationship. One of my first boyfriends when I was 17 was a ex military man about 36 years old.

I was diagnosed as having "borderline personality" traits as a young adult but I never stuck with counseling or any longterm treatment.

So I feel like my experiences at the village helped me break out of an unhealthy mindset in some ways and I want to keep socializing, keep maturing emotionally and socially. It does feel good to grow out of this personality I've had for so many years as I approach forty in a couple of weeks.

My nymphomania was threatening my family and I'm sure contributing to depression and of course I am lucky I am still alive ....I've slept with about fifty men in my lifetime....so I am thankful to God that I am no longer ruled by this....I feel confident I am out of the grips of this spirit of lust now and I can learn to see men more clearly and perhaps pursue some brotherly relationships. I don't listen to rock music anymore and I am careful not to fill my soul with tv. I do think rock music has been a powerful influence....I have loved rock and roll very much.
I am very surprised that I have the self control to not listen to rock and roll anymore but I do.
I was always determined not to do drugs after growing up around the crazy hippies as a kid and I have never had substance abuse problems....so I am grateful for that. There is a power in just simply saying no.

Anyway, these are my confessions...my steps documented in a spiritual journey....
you can see how I messed up, how immature and stupid I can be.....
But at least I can give you reality....after all that is what we really want, right?
reality and truth and a clearer picture of God on this earth?

Love ya....thanks for reading my honest portrayal of this experience.....

I love whoever is taking the time to read this.....I know I am probably being introspective or whatever....but I am struggling to grow out of old ways and to develop a new personality....and it does not seem like an easy thing. I hope as I begin this new stressful nursing job that I can still grow into what God wants me to be
At least I will be serving others....that is something the village would approve of. But since it is not at their village I guess it does not count in their eyes...I don't count to them anymore....I've gone out into "the world". the corruptible world.

Bye for now...time to rest,
Love and Peace and Grace and Mercy to you,
earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village Part 6

I am so happy I have a job....good paying at that....starting Monday....I feel empowered, more like a real person....I have concrete goals to work toward...coworkers to relate to.....
I will not always be easy but I can cope with this a lot easier than staying at home all day listening to people go nuts over very small things. It is great to start to have our life back.
I think I can balance work and motherhood...my youngest will be school age in the Fall now....I can give monies to missions, etc. I can still be all that God wants me to be.
Working moms can be good spiritual moms, too. Some people are probably called to work...I hope so....what would we do without us nurses :).
(I am not arrogant...just happy).

Thank you God for taking care of us.

Unfortunately if we were homeless sleeping on the side of the road with no food or whatever, I don't think "the village" would care....we are gone...outside of their boundary line.....so they will not even return emails....well, not all...some new people who have not been brainwashed will still email.

Sad to be a part of a family AGAIN that rejects me and does not care.

But I WILL find a church family to fellowship with and although I will expect very little as my experiences have taught me...at least they will not try to control me, etc.

Be very careful....some groups look so inviting, so caring, so happy....until you actually live there you just don't know. And then it is very difficult financially to come back out and get on your feet. And you don't realize the psychological power of "the group"....when they decide to discipline you, reject you, ignore you. God help them.

I had meetings at the village where I had like TEN other adults frowning at me...I had a loss of temper and I said a cuss word that I did not even remember saying....and I am not proud of this....especially in a home with children I do not approve of cursing.
I just was having emotional problems and needed help. I asked them if I could live outside the village and just spend eight hours a day helping out at the village....because I knew if I had that emotional space I could stop all blow ups. (I was just perfect usually for about two months and then would lose my temper about once every two months.)....I knew this is what I could do.
They said no.
All or nothing. Their way (which is God's way) or the HIGHWAY. And I was asked so many times if I wanted to leave. And I tried so hard to live that life and to grow in Christ, etc. How cold.
They have a lot of retirees that have moved there...they are very mature, no anger control problems....no sexual or social or emotional problems.....so they like them....they just start serving their guts out and do not require any counseling...

I remember our third week there we were asked if we had any health problems....that was the same conversation in which we were asked if we wanted to leave....I felt like an animal or slave or something ....Tabach our household leader was going back and forth, talking to Noah I think and then coming back and asking us these specific questions to see if we were good enough to deserve to be there.....good enough assets.

And my husband even worked for free at least one and a half weeks without pay. I wish we had that money now as we go to social services for help and eat at soup kitchens. But God is meeting our needs. We have a motel in a not so good area but it is managed well and we feel relatively safe.

Just be careful ....it is normal to want a family, etc. our society is so isolated.
I did get a lot of good out of my experiences at the village but they are off.
Maybe they will moderate...I doubt it but they have repented for being mean in the past and it is possible that they might change.
I think they are a very nice cult. And I really hate to say that but I must face reality, face myself and move on.

God bless you all, God Bless The Village, God Bless all the readers on this site...
Love and Peace...may God help us all
Your friend in cyberspace,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village ...Part 7
Thanks everyone for enabling me to get this stuff off my chest...this has been therapeutic....telling all my cyberspace about my experiences...thank for reading and giving any feedback that you have.

Have I said enough to give a realistic picture of RCV? It really depends a lot I guess on the luck of the draw on who you live with. So many of the people there are really neat people....wish I could do everything over and just be an occasional visitor. they have a villagefest in the fall open to the public ...it is quite a production...you should go see it...they will treat you great and you will enjoy it.

They have a nice school building now ....they seem to do a good job with the children...they do believe in discipline but the moms are loving for the most part and cook really good meals, keep a clean house, etc.

Some people seem to do really well at RCV. I think in particular if someone has had a drug problem or is in a desperate single mom situation and doesn't mind the domination or being dependent on others.....persons from these two groups seem to do pretty well.
A lot of people who are there have recovered from some kind of drug addiction. Noah and Haviylah both had drug habits in their youth...Haviy shared that with me. I'm not being negative in my outlook here...my mother was both a desperate single mother and a person with substance abuse problems, so I am all for anything that helps these people live a good life.

I miss RCV folks...wish it did not have to be so complicated to live there.....they even have a few horses but it is VERY difficult to get the chance to ride them. I got to ride I think once in nine months and I love to ride. I was so intensely concentrated on how to live there and struggling with whatever depression, insecurities, pain or lust, etc. I could not find myself clear enough in thought to care to ride. Plus all the schedules and worrying about being a good mom or someone would put a giant guilt trip on you.....

Like the day I took a nap and my children played outside around the village.....one of my housemates confronted me about that. So I felt tense, not ever wanting to slack up on my responsibilities as a parent. so I did not even really feel free enough to play my guitar on a regular basis....I shared all these feelings with my household but they did not seem to understand. Toward the end it seemed like everything I said was wrong and my household members had all the preconcieved answers....I became more and more nervous.

Like I said, just be an occasional visitor....like once a year at their villagefest.

Reba Fellowship was really neat. I bet I could do great there....they give you the freedom to have your own apartment if you want, a career...and they encourage counseling. The only thing is they are located in a suburb of Chicago....it looked pretty dreary and ugly there to me and it was not even wintertime.

I just love Arizona....so much sun. It is great. Just live with access to a pool....

God Bless you all.....I am not well established yet....so you guys are my close friends for now....thanks for helping me quell my loneliness. I will seek out a church and friends....I will go to the homeless organizations where we eat now and I will make a point to talk to someone.

Have a great night everyone....God Bless me and my family, God bless you, God bless Rose Creek village and God Bless the whole world....Love and Peace,
Earnestseeker....

[earnestseeker]

Continuation of journal on RCV....I'm not sure Noah is a mentally ok person....he is so driven...the village has worked so hard to build what it has in the past several years and now he is pressing hard to make all these trips to India, England, Africa...even talking of taking out a second mortgage. And this is all mandated by God. Maybe it is...I don't know everything God says....but I do know there is a lot at the village ....a lot of people at the village that do not seem to be getting the help they need....
Maybe the village was not ready for Noah to go off traveling.....a lot of people left when we were there for nine months....

Anyway...I love Noah and Haviy...they are just human and they will die some day like the rest of us. I hope Noah does not get killed traveling to Africa where all the violence is going on. Of course just driving to Walmart you can get killed. And I would rather take dangerous trips myself than do the humdrum stuff day after day after day with no power to plan something interesting.

Oh me...will I ever move on and quit thinking about the village? I took them so seriously...I wanted to grow in God, etc. I was so insecure, so unsure of my identity there...I just could not seem to get comfortable. And no one really cared in the end.

When I was a young adult and sleeping in my truck while attending college....well then I realized that people do not REALLY care. I don't think I'll ever make financial sacrifices for a religious group again...I have children depending on me. If things got too much worse now the state might step in and take my kids or something.
This is the worst financial situation I have ever been in since I have become a parent...that's what I get for trusting these "Godly" people. Well most of them have no say in anything....
I know some new people who just moved there.....finally got all their stuff to fit inside one room....and then the leaders moved them ACROSS THE STREET...nothing to make the front pages of the newspaper, but you can see the chaos and the lack of control over your life.
A big price tag on belonging sometimes. Our society needs to be less isolated but I don't know how it is ever going to move in that direction....

I'm so pitiful...this computer and you guys out there in cyberspace are my friends right now....but I will go to church in the morning :).

Thanks for reading.....send me an email sometime,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

I know it is hard leaving these people behind after so long. I know God will bring you even nicer friends. Remember friendship takes time. I remember as a child or a teen friendship was almost instantaneous at times. Now that we are older frendships can and do take years to grow.

Be patient. God is already working in your life.


What I want to know about Rose Creek Village is:

What do they believe about the Godhead? Who is God?

Is Jesus totally human? totally divine? both human and divine in equal proportions?

Do they have any regular prayer services?

How are their ministers trained?

I hope this isn't too overwhelming! Just give it you best shot.

[earnestseeker]

Dear Cyberspace Friends...Hello again!! I just spent some money on a pair of shoes and some uniforms for my new job starting tommorow....we are not sure but we might have to sleep in our car or in a shelter for a week ...awaiting the first paycheck. We'll see. God has provided a lot for us so far.

Had a great day...was happy, enjoyed my husband, son and praised God. Ate well.
Went to visit First Christian Church in Phoenix this morning...was such an expensive building....special architecture, etc...must have cost a million or more. I did not like that...seems materialistic.
I told one of the lead pastors about our currently desperate situation and I don't think they will help us at all...just a handshake and see ya Sunday. Oh well, we will get out of this ditch soon. We ate a nice meal for free at the local soup kitchen.

We will visit some churches until we find one that preaches the Bible, is not so materialistic and that does not seem plastic....that fellowships some during the week.
I'm sure we'll find a good church home before long.

Got to get a rental...apt or house and figure out where to send my boys to school before August....one thing at a time....

I did pretty well today....thinking about the village today, wishing things could go right but they just won't. People don't really care. That's just life. Heaven will be different but this world is not heaven.

I have a great husband...he does not sing the greatest and he is kinda goofy and insecure but he loves me a lot. And my boys are healthy and great.

I will take a nap now and be happy!

Love to all my invisible friends!
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village...Part 9.....
How could I be so dumb? Going to this group and falling in love with them and they try repeatedly in the first week to get me to LEAVE....giving me some kind of test to see if I am REALLY a saint....
Oh well, I must forgive myself for being so lonely, vulnerable and weak. I guess it could be worse...I could have started using drugs...(I never have used)....

I did learn a lot it seems...just can't stop thinking of them....I think I just want to love and be loved...the big family atmosphere was intoxicating....and all the talk about God, etc. I do want more with God....I guess a lot of people do....it is a journey, and one you must be careful to not get off on doctrines that are not true or MORE LIKELY are only HALF-true.

God Bless You all for reading my pitiful, lonely posts.... I actually am having a great day...
Praise the Lord,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Repentance for Post 9....Correction and repentance....we were not Dumb to go to Rose Creek Village....we were seeking God and God met us there. I must repent for giving these people so much power in my own mind....perhaps that is why I have failed and had to leave. Or why THEY failed....anyway, God has done a work and I must be grateful for what spiritual work was done ....during our nine months at the village.....
I did go to a church service this morning and I could almost cry at how shallow it was....granted, the Word was preached and I did get fed SOMETHING...but there is a coldness, a materialism...definitely our churches should be more intimate.

Perhaps God wants myself and my husband to turn our eyes off of man and to focus on God and develop our relationship with God. I am studying the Bible now with my husband as I think this is what God would have us think on...His Word.

I look forward to learning more and I want to take this time to thank God and to acknowledge God in our lives. We left everything like the radical fishermen in the Bible and moved to a christian community to find God and we DID find God...he was faithful and met us there. We also found fallible human beings who fell horribly and cruelly short of the message that they themselves proclaim....
But that is man.....nothing new or surprising about this....

So we are studying Mark Chapter One now....we found a free online Bible study and we are thankful for what God is doing in our lives.....we also are looking forward to supporting a Mercy Home in India when our finances start healing.

God Bless you all....His Peace and Love to you,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village....UnChristlike Behavior of Leaders kept me from developing trust....

Like I said in recent posts, I lost my temper over a writeup given to my husband over a minor thing....I got angry at his boss, Teshuva...a man at the village who is well-known for enforcing rules....then I had to stay in a motel for a week....

Later I left at least three messages with Teshuva, explaining that I wanted to talk to him so we could be "clear" and have no resentments, etc....for forgiveness....He never got back to me.

I would have thought this would have been a high priority for Jesus. They treat people they don't like ...like trash. Thank God Jesus does not throw us in the trash so easily.

I really wanted to trust these leaders but they did not demonstrate to me very commonly known principles in the Bible....they just weren't very loving. They seemed more concerned with rather or not someone was agreeing with everything, obeying, submitting.

I know it is a common weakness in a lot of men and some women to want power, authority, respect....to let egos reign. I think this is definitely a problem with some of the men in leadership...not all....I think this applies to senior leader Noah, Chashaq, Teshuva, Tabach.....
Chashaq would not even let my third grade son have his workbook so I could know where he had left off and therefore provide effective homeschooling for him.

So even the children were not cared about in the end....isn't that cold? Chashaq Denson seems to me like a man that was raised very "perfect" middle class...got a college education ....he has preconcieved ideas about the world....pre judgements...right off he did not like me and tried to ask if I wanted to leave....

He did act loving some after this....but only after humiliating me in a meeting with ten other adults....telling me I was mean and that I had said a cuss word and that I was violating BIG rules.

Anyway I've got a life now and I've got to go to work....

Everyone have a good day...
Peace, Love, Mercy to you all,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

can I delete this?

[earnestseeker]

Did I delete this? I'm tired of analyzing Rose Creek Village...I think there is some God there...maybe even a lot....even if they are off in some things....just go there and pray a judge for yourself.

A lot of people do great there....I am an educated "ghetto" child of a whore and a drug addict so I probably do have a screwed up mind and perspective on the world and male authority.:o I'll try to delete this stuff...

[bramble]

I've enjoyed your testimony. I admire your courage to post it. I believe that it will help others who are considering Rose Creek Village or similar groups.

I myself might have found such a group appealing. I'm glad i didn't join. I, myself have been marginally involved in cults--The WAY and UBF to be specific. It can happen to anyone. IMO, the more spiritual someone is the more likely they are to be drawn in. On the surface they appear to be a real religion.

I remember when Heaven's Gate was recruiting in our town. It sounded really cool! I'm glad I didn't attend their meeting!! Jello! Kool-Ade! Is how they ended up five years from that date. You get the picture. They have a sole survivor. He is their historian. He still follows their religion.

[earnestseeker]

Cruelty of Rose Creek Village......

After we sold or gave away most of our stuff, quit good-paying jobs, moved to Rose Creek Village where we thought we would find God's love in daily living.....after Phil worked so hard and faithfully and tried so hard to love everybody....and me too...I was not perfect and had some temper but I really, really loved these people and thought they had something with God.....
I am very giving and even in the midst of filing Chapter 13 Bankruptcy at the village ...the leaders asked for those who could to donate their pay to the village....I suggested that Phil donate a week and a half of his pay and he gladly did this.

After we did all this and lived there for eight or nine months.....we moved back to Phoenix because the village basicly refused to let me have any kind of counseling....either inside or outside the village.....(I felt like I was getting ready to have a nervous breakdown...with worsening depression and anxiety)....would not let us live outside the village a few miles away in the local town of Selmer and still be a part of the village.....

so we moved back to phoenix and have found jobs but just got out of living in a shelter for a few days (we have a motel now)....so we are struggling financially as we wait on our first few paychecks to come in....

My mother is disabled and has a lot of chronic pain....she moved to Selmer, TN with us when we moved to the village...because she was dependent on us for rides, etc. and was part of our family....anyway she lives in an apartment a few miles outside the village for disabled and elderly.....

She has been in a lot of pain and needed desperately to go see her doctor in Jackson, TN...forty miles away....I basicly BEGGED the village....practically the whole village...in an email to please help my mom get to the doctor and that I would send money to whoever helped her.....

No one even bothered to answer this pleading email. A couple of men at the village wanted to help my mother but they were too busy working and pleasing their elders to be able to help her. So the people who cared were too busy pleasing the people who did not care to help my suffering mother.

So now I clearly see what a cult I was in.....a lot of people in there are good....just like a lot of others like in the Twelve Tribes....but they are controlled. The leaders only love you if you let them totally control you.....

There is something sexy and attractive about letting authority figures take care of you...at least I think a lot of people would like strong father figures to make decisions for them.....but it is not God. God is our father and we should not give our decision making power to anyone but possibly our spouse and then there should be joint decisionmaking between husband and wife.

I hate to say this but this is the truth. This is what has resulted in my family being more destitute than we have been since we had our sons which are now just five and eight. Our family is not that many and they dont profess to be great spiritual beings but two or three of them have sent us a hundred or two to help us during this time.

We have never had to ask our family for help in eleven years....

This is what a cult will do to you....you think you belong....you are lonely or depressed or whatever.....they give you a sense of belonging....and they give you "love"...but it is conditional love.....

And they even have some truth...like Rose Creek Village...they profess some biblical things...but then they turn the bible into their own self-serving instrument....RCV leaders will tell you to die to yourself, but it is a one-way street....they will only love you very conditionally. Only as much as you can be under their control.

But they look so sweet and loving and pure...their young people are awesome and they seem to do a good job with their teens....all the little children, home cooked meals, green grass.....it all looks so idyllic......
and our society has become so ruled by tv and so isolated....people are so lonely....this makes people like me more susceptible to things like this.....

But God met me there and I am not going backwards...I am never fornicating or doing adultery again.....I am going to read my Bible and work to serve my employers and my patients...try to love everyone and cast down evil thoughts....I will continue to not use curse words as best I can and not to listen to sensuous rock and roll songs...limit my tv....listen to christian music that feeds my spirit...keep trying to love my husband and children more and more....
I am not giving up on God....but sadly you can never trust man that much....so far for me it is true that you can count your REAL friends on the fingers of one hand....

if you think a group of people really cares.....think again....man is fallible....man's love is conditional....you should not give control of your life over to any man......except maybe your spouse.....

Love ya...God loves me, God loves Rose Creek Village and God loves YOU!! God help us as we earnestly seek His kingdom....may God's peace, love, grace, mercy, joy be with you.....

I will help anyone who needs help leaving the village to the best of my ability. I know it is hard to leave with almost no monies with children, etc. I am here to help anyone who wants to leave the village.....so hopefully you won't have to sleep under a bridge or live in a shelter when you leave there......

Anyway....God is in control...thanks for reading my personal thoughts.....I am grateful to God that I do not feel hatred at this moment...that I am able to forgive and that me and my family were not hurt more than we were.

Thank God we got out and are able to see things better.

Thanks God for all good and true things....help us discern what is true and what is not.

[earnestseeker]

Rose Creek Village...continued.....today one of my former "friends" at the village let me know that I was now "spam" and to please not email him anymore....to respect his wishes....

since when is "respect" important? they do not seem to know a lot about that at the village.....

He is in his ?twenties...tatoos, drug history....been there almost three years....
plays in the "one heart" band..

They are so mean and arrogant....thinking they know something about God and love and they do not. They don't care about my sick mother in Selmer....

Fine...I'm GLAD they do not like me...praise God...they are a sick group of decieved people....hope they make a lot of money this year and get a lot more retiree members who can do a lot of work for them and not need much help.....

I'm so angry they don't love and care for my mother...she is in a lot of pain and they could at least comfort her but they don't care about anyone but who is in their own little click.

Thank God our Heavenly Father is not like THAT...I would be excluded from heaven and sentenced to hell for sure if they were allowed to by my judges...but they are not, God is. and God will deal with THEM.

Pray for me out there that I can heal and forget and move on with my life. Pray that I can find "real" friends and deepen my walk with God.
Please pray for me...
Thanks,
EArnestseeker

[truth_child]

how can any one get invovled with a false cult . why dont you just trust in JESUS AND ASK HIM to help you and save you HE WILL and get in a good church where they preach the word OF GOD

[bramble]

Truth Child is right. I might add, get reaquainted with any family you have. They love you more than you ever know. In time, you will find healing and a Church that preaches the Truth. Be patient. God is. This is what people always tell me.

As far as RCV goes, I know it is hard to understand, but in time you will find true friends. To this day, I don't understand friends turning on me after joining a cult. That's life, I guess.

God Bless You!

[earnestseeker]

how can any one get invovled with a false cult . why dont you just trust in JESUS AND ASK HIM to help you and save you HE WILL and get in a good church where they preach the word OF GOD

I must say you sound a little judgemental, truth child....
I was depressed, in adultery, did not know how to handle my spoiled out of control little boys , was at the end of my rope with my prescription-addicted mother, and was lonely....did not know how to develop healthy relationships....I have always felt inferior and competitive...sometime God has helped me see and grow out of some....

this group looks very attractive....they have a cute village, cute children and have a certain amount of love.....you don't find out until later how controlling and how conditional the love is.....

I come from a background of Adult Child of Alcoholics and really had severe child abuse...i.e. severe neglect, social isolation.....
never learned to have longterm friendships...moved around since I was eight...never felt like I had any "roots".....
don't want you to feel sorry for me.....but I'm just trying to help you understand why it might be easy to join a group like this.....

even though this ultimately ended in rejection I did grow socially and I did develop some more emotional maturity....hard for me to explain....I just stayed nine months.....just long enough to get whatever good out of what was there and not long enough to be wounded for years and years over their lack of caring, etc.
They did set some good examples for me in terms of housekeeping, cooking, etc.....they do have character and even some biblical truth but are too controlling, worship these leaders.....
Do you have family? friends?

Anyway, peace and love to youl.....I am just interested in church and bible study at this point....

Peace, Love , Grace, Mercy, Joy to you,
earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Darn...I lost a long thread....when I hit "post quick reply" it just reverted to another browser I had open...some kind of news...

Anyway, I can write a little more; a few weeks into my time at Rose Creek Village I started feeling uncomfortable....everything seemed so robotical...just a bunch of schedules, tasks...not really much time being together...
I craved attention and intimacy...was excited at having a new loving family that I thought loved me....then I realized later that they did not love me....or if they did it was all based on control. They did not care about my well being ....were not sensitive to my growing depression or anxiety...the whole deal was to serve the village....a good deal...especially if you are in the elite leader group and get to travel, etc.

I tried to go to the new, smaller group that Noah is shepherding in Rhode Island...this group is headed up by Ron Caliri....Noah blocked my way to this by calling Ron and convincing him that I not be allowed to join the RI group. Noah was afraid I would mess up his new work.
Noah Taylor is all fired up...very excited that this group has grown to the point of looking "successful" and I think he has a vision of this community blueprint of his growing around the world in popularity...he wants to see all this happen before he dies...kinda like delusions of grandeur.....
or maybe he is just burnt out on the real like everyday problems at his home base, Rose Creek Village.
Anyway, hope I don't lose this thread....

[earnestseeker]

I know it is hard leaving these people behind after so long. I know God will bring you even nicer friends. Remember friendship takes time. I remember as a child or a teen friendship was almost instantaneous at times. Now that we are older frendships can and do take years to grow.

Be patient. God is already working in your life.


What I want to know about Rose Creek Village is:

What do they believe about the Godhead? Who is God?

Is Jesus totally human? totally divine? both human and divine in equal proportions?

Do they have any regular prayer services?

How are their ministers trained?

I hope this isn't too overwhelming! Just give it you best shot.


You are so sweet Bramble...my one and only fan....that's all a person needs...you are becoming like a spiritual mentor or something...god bless you for caring....do I remind you of yourself?
as you can see by their website, RCV does not like to be made to say exactly what they believe...they remain purposely vague....in the end I heard little about even Jesus there ....but heard a lot about "unity"; "dying to yourself"; constant praise of the great leaders; constant push to serve others....
I think they do believe in the Godhead...that is the trinity, correct? But on their website...Shammah Pavao...the one there that actually does Bible study that Noah likes to defer theological questions to.....Shammah says on their website that the trinity is hard to understand.

I feel confident that they do believe in salvation.....Noah seems to place a lot of emphasis on the physical act of baptizing people....more than other churches I have been to.....he leans heavily on the teachings of Watchman Nee.....
But they mostly emphasize that the leaders are capable of hearing God..of following the Holy Spirit....so the word for the day is usually about whatever the Holy Spirit is showing the leaders.....and this is how they justify how differently they treat different people....it justifies not adhering to any set of standards, rules or doctrines....you can just say the Holy Spirit told you to do it and who can argue with that, especially if it is coming from a MAN OF GAWD.....
I can't believe how daily the leaders were so venerated....it is scary.

I think they might have been better and more loving and more intimate two or three years ago but I bet Noah was on a power trip then to.

I guess this group probably qualifies as "a cult of personality"....so entwined around noah and even haviylah (hoorah...the leadership of a NURSE)....the village does not quite know how to function without the leadership of Noah.....he is very distracted now with traveling to these other places where he is trying to get groups going...India, Africa, Rhode Island.....
I'm not sure the leadership is in place for a smooth transition at the home base.

anyway.....hope this helps you....I think your comments help me....for no other reason than you obviously care about me.....

God has given me an interesting job with lots of christians around me.
God is my Father and he loves me and my husband and my children....he loves me whether or not I am in a certain location with a certain group of people.

I keep wishing everything could work out but I have to realize this is planet earth and until we get to heaven things will not work out. Part of me does not care much about this life and wants to just get it over and go to heaven....then I think about my children.......
maybe that is my depression talking, I don't know if this is spiritual or depression....
Anyway I will be fine...thanks Bramble for your caring and I hope God speaks to your heart this day....
Love,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

You are so sweet Bramble...my one and only fan....that's all a person needs...you are becoming like a spiritual mentor or something...god bless you for caring....do I remind you of yourself?
as you can see by their website, RCV does not like to be made to say exactly what they believe...they remain purposely vague....in the end I heard little about even Jesus there ....but heard a lot about "unity"; "dying to yourself"; constant praise of the great leaders; constant push to serve others....
I think they do believe in the Godhead...that is the trinity, correct? But on their website...Shammah Pavao...the one there that actually does Bible study that Noah likes to defer theological questions to.....Shammah says on their website that the trinity is hard to understand.

I feel confident that they do believe in salvation.....Noah seems to place a lot of emphasis on the physical act of baptizing people....more than other churches I have been to.....he leans heavily on the teachings of Watchman Nee.....
But they mostly emphasize that the leaders are capable of hearing God..of following the Holy Spirit....so the word for the day is usually about whatever the Holy Spirit is showing the leaders.....and this is how they justify how differently they treat different people....it justifies not adhering to any set of standards, rules or doctrines....you can just say the Holy Spirit told you to do it and who can argue with that, especially if it is coming from a MAN OF GAWD.....
I can't believe how daily the leaders were so venerated....it is scary.

I think they might have been better and more loving and more intimate two or three years ago but I bet Noah was on a power trip then to.

I guess this group probably qualifies as "a cult of personality"....so entwined around noah and even haviylah (hoorah...the leadership of a NURSE)....the village does not quite know how to function without the leadership of Noah.....he is very distracted now with traveling to these other places where he is trying to get groups going...India, Africa, Rhode Island.....
I'm not sure the leadership is in place for a smooth transition at the home base.

anyway.....hope this helps you....I think your comments help me....for no other reason than you obviously care about me.....

God has given me an interesting job with lots of christians around me.
God is my Father and he loves me and my husband and my children....he loves me whether or not I am in a certain location with a certain group of people.

I keep wishing everything could work out but I have to realize this is planet earth and until we get to heaven things will not work out. Part of me does not care much about this life and wants to just get it over and go to heaven....then I think about my children.......
maybe that is my depression talking, I don't know if this is spiritual or depression....
Anyway I will be fine...thanks Bramble for your caring and I hope God speaks to your heart this day....
Love,
Earnestseeker


I see in these groups that the leaders claim to have Divine Public Revelation. Maybe for RCV that is more important than the Bible. This Noah guy is trying to expand. We'll see how well it goes. They may be trying to move around in order to start anew in another region. Do they have a bad reputation in TN?

God speaks to all of us in a personal way--not just the 'religious' leaders. I know this to be true. He also speaks to us through Scripture.

Depression--take care of yourself. PM me if you like.

God Bless You!

[earnestseeker]

Dear Bramble....I am excited my first pay day June 20 is in sight...still have to live tightly for a while, though...not secure yet...but job going well with some overtime and people there like me.

I am excited ....I have developed a webpage...www.rosecreekvillagetruth.com

can go to it and tell me what you think....it might take a few weeks for it to show up on a google search....
twenty dollars a month but worth it for me to warn others before they make major sacrifices like we did.....not all bad...I strive to be fair....
God is good...pray that I can move on...it is difficult for me to detach emotionally from this group and move on...it hurts a lot for some reason....
it must bring back old feelings of abandonment and loss.....

Love ya...thanks..I will take care of myself as best I can....
I will seek counseling as soon as it is possible...hard to find time...
I think my job is helping me right now....
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble....pay day is this Friday!! Yeah!! We have a small one bedroom apartment....by the week at a motel but it seems like an apartment complex...now that jobs and housing are taken care of I am looking at whether to send my boys to public or private school.
I really feel like God is with me...the people at work really like me. I am not listening to rock music, etc. I am too tired after work to go to bible study this week, but I went to church on Father's Day and it was really good...I felt the spirit of God...it is a small church that meets partly in a movie theatre.
Their children were so enthusiastic about God....even more than the kids at Rose Creek. It was heartwarming...it reminded me of how I was when I was a little girl....I so loved the Lord and was so enthusiastic.

I'm not thinking that much or feeling that much about Rose Creek village anymore...I'm too busy and the passing of time helps, I guess.
I hate to admit the real truth of their misguidedness....I hate to face the reality that they care very little.....
But at the same time I am looking at how "regular" churches can be full of God's glory and our country is full of a lot of Godly people....I'm just working mostly...don't know how much energy I have to be "spiritual" but I am striving to love people at work and take good care of my patients, etc. I am praying some and reading the Bible with my husband some......

There are different seasons in people's lives and right now my season seems to be mostly working, parenting and sleeping!

It is good I am getting my life back and starting to forget some of the painful things I felt at Rose Creek. I still wish things were different but I have to face reality and come to grips with the truth that things will never line up all that great here on earth...that this is a very temporary existence and that heaven is eternal.....heaven is where people will truly love each other in Christ. Down here there is a lot of sin and flesh and religion to deal with.

Well God Bless you as we travel this spiritual road together....
Did you get a chance to see my new website : www.rosecreektruth.com (http://www.rosecreektruth.com) ?
It should be out on Google in a few weeks....

Love and Peace,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Hey everyone....the sun shines brightly....especially here in Phoenix, AZ....I'm doing great and so is my loving husband and two beautiful sons.....I am very well liked at my job...it is very demanding and I come home very tired but it also has taken my mind off of Rose Creek village.

So my mental health is great now that I have left Rose Creek Village and I also am continuing to try to follow God...I'm not listening to rock music and my hubby is reading the Bible to us daily and praying...I am praying some....
I can't go to every service or study because I am tired from working but I aim for once a week something.....
planning on sending the kiddos to a great lutheran private school....

God is with us, helping us get back on our feet.

Hang in there those of you who are hurting or feeling rejected by the "group"..God loves you and His love is unconditional....

we now to shop for a good Nerf toy...I don't know who is the bigger kid...ME or my BOYS :).

Love, Peace, Joy, Mercy, Grace, Forgiveness to all,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

I'm so glad things are going so well for you. Please sent the link for your web site again for website. It didn't go through.


God Bless!

[bramble]

Hey everyone....the sun shines brightly....especially here in Phoenix, AZ....I'm doing great and so is my loving husband and two beautiful sons.....I am very well liked at my job...it is very demanding and I come home very tired but it also has taken my mind off of Rose Creek village.

So my mental health is great now that I have left Rose Creek Village and I also am continuing to try to follow God...I'm not listening to rock music and my hubby is reading the Bible to us daily and praying...I am praying some....
I can't go to every service or study because I am tired from working but I aim for once a week something.....
planning on sending the kiddos to a great lutheran private school....

God is with us, helping us get back on our feet.

Hang in there those of you who are hurting or feeling rejected by the "group"..God loves you and His love is unconditional....

we now to shop for a good Nerf toy...I don't know who is the bigger kid...ME or my BOYS :).

Love, Peace, Joy, Mercy, Grace, Forgiveness to all,
Earnestseeker

What Church do you attend now? Lutheran?

I believe that God wants us to live balanced lives--harder that it sounds for some of us. I reremember when my parents bought me a Bible when I was in junior high. I thought I could read it all in one night. My concience got the better of me, but I kept reading and dozing off. I knew I should go tp bed. I remember saying, "God if you want me to go to sleep, you'll have to send someone in here to make me". In about two minutes my mother was in my room and she gently urged me go to to bed saying, "Even God want you to get a good night's sleep". I was astounded! I quickly went to bed.

My point--We can't be expected to attend all the the events or do all things that a Church or some power hungry pastors expect us all to do. We can't read the Bible in one day. I'm not saying that this is exactly your situation, but for some on these boards, they give or used to give all of their free time to their 'Church' such as it was. Just don't feel like you have to do it all.

My goals are to read more, pray more and spend less time online. We'll see. I'm glad that you all are praying as a family. This is so helpful and much need.

I'm glad you like your job and have a place to live, now. This school sounds great too.

I saw your web page. It is coming along nicely.

God Bless!

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble...my one and only faithful fan...I have come to think of you as a friend...we are going to the Lutheran church that has the school that I have picked out for my boys....it is such a nice school, Bramble....they have a swimming pool, an indoor gym....good security in the city....my boys will enjoy sports, music, and a christian environment.....
When I feel like my job is too much I think of their school and it keeps me going.

Our life is coming together and I do not listen to rock music....I'm not very spiritual ...I went to a bible study the other night and something in me hated all the emotion and I did not want to get emotional....I got so emotional at Rose Creek and believed and trusted in those people as much as I could and in the end they did not give a damn about me or my family or the sacrifices we made to join them....

All because I did not "submit" to their satisfaction and did not do everything they wanted me to do....I did not fit in their box.......they would not meet me half way....I have decided that is ok because this life is not meant to be heaven....it is earth....with people born in sinful earth.....we will not see much of the glory of God in these bodies on this earth.....but this life is a small thing compared to eternity....

there we will all be humbled at the full and glorious truth.....

God bless you richly for caring Bramble...I look forward to growing stable and strong and learning who I am at forty.

I am going to learn to be a strong tower....to stand strong in spite of daily sufferings....

I love you and God loves you and me and all the religious groups that pain us...God loves them too and perhaps is using them to perfect us in some way.....

Peace Out,
Bethany

[bramble]

Hi Bramble...my one and only faithful fan...I have come to think of you as a friend...we are going to the Lutheran church that has the school that I have picked out for my boys....it is such a nice school, Bramble....they have a swimming pool, an indoor gym....good security in the city....my boys will enjoy sports, music, and a christian environment.....
When I feel like my job is too much I think of their school and it keeps me going.

Our life is coming together and I do not listen to rock music....I'm not very spiritual ...I went to a bible study the other night and something in me hated all the emotion and I did not want to get emotional....I got so emotional at Rose Creek and believed and trusted in those people as much as I could and in the end they did not give a damn about me or my family or the sacrifices we made to join them....

All because I did not "submit" to their satisfaction and did not do everything they wanted me to do....I did not fit in their box.......they would not meet me half way....I have decided that is ok because this life is not meant to be heaven....it is earth....with people born in sinful earth.....we will not see much of the glory of God in these bodies on this earth.....but this life is a small thing compared to eternity....

there we will all be humbled at the full and glorious truth.....

God bless you richly for caring Bramble...I look forward to growing stable and strong and learning who I am at forty.

I am going to learn to be a strong tower....to stand strong in spite of daily sufferings....

I love you and God loves you and me and all the religious groups that pain us...God loves them too and perhaps is using them to perfect us in some way.....

Peace Out,
Bethany

You have lots of fans. 433 people have read this thread alone. On you Part Two thread there were 53 viewers. Part One had 54 viewers. People are taking notice. Remember there are more 'peeps' than posters. When we feel most alone is when we are closest to God. Remember that Footprints in the Sand poem from the 1980's!

You are a strong person which is why you didn't give into the RCV control tactics. This is why you are no longer living in RCV. It is those who cave in easily--the people pleasers who succumb to these abusive churches. These people pleasers also may not realize that their 'pastors' can never be fully satisfied--another control tactic.

It is the ones with the 'bad attitudes' who are the thinkers who ultimately walk out--unless they are too parylized by their own fear to leave.

You are deeply spiritual--this is obvious. You may not feel comforable around organized religion, yet given what you have been through--this is to be expected. Be patient with yourself and with God. I admire how forgiving you are.

Remember 40 is an age to figure out where we have come from and where we are going. Believe me I can relate.

BTW: your sons' school sounds really neat. IMO, the Lutheran Church is a safe Church.

Tell me more about this Bible Study. Was it Lutheran or with which Church? IMO, it would be mostly harmless. You've just been batterd about by RCV and are having to adjust to the outside world and conventional Churches. This it normal and will take time.

The CFCMI 'Bible Studies' are more like brainwashing sessions, as are UBF ones. They tell YOU what THEY want YOU the believe the Bible says, NOT what it actually teaches.

As far as your job goes, I hope it not more than you can take on, all things considered. Do you have health care, yet? How many hours do you work?

Love,
Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Oh Bramble...you are such a blessing to me...thanks for you caring spirit.....
We are going to the Lutheran church who hosts this really great school...they are
giving us a 25 percent discount on tuition if we join the church....I expect it will
be a standard fairly lively denominational experience....the school gives me a lot of
encouragement...my job is a stressful one at least half the time, so when I feel down I think of how I can provide this school for my boys and it encourages me.

The other church we have been going to is the Tempe Vineyard church that is an off branch of a big Vineyard church in Glendale, AZ....it is the most liberal Vineyard Church I have attended....they sometimes dance and have a lot of like chrasmatic spirit filled stuff like maybe a word of knowledge about someone's hurting ankle...on Sunday they meet in actually a movie theatre next door to their office and daycare ....

both of these churches have two or three service times on Sunday morning so we plan to attend BOTH tommorow...praise God....

part of me is rebelling against the high emotions at Tempe Vineyard....I find myself not wanting to give in and to be emotional during praise, etc.....I think I am just tired emotionally from my job and have been through so much intense emotion at the village and I just don't want to be emotional right now.

But I am there and God see me....I feel a little empty inside today and instead of trying to fill that with entertainment or material things today I will try to read the Bible and pray and try to fill that empty spot with God's Spirit and Love.

I can love the village more it seems when I think of all the things they deprive themselves of....they don't have a swimming pool....no exercise equipment....they are "OCD" (obsessive-compulsive) ...the women, that is...with their houses, cook schedules, etc....it is very consuming.....
they have a few beautiful small horses but not very many people ever ride them because they have a bunch of rules about how they should be ridden a certain way, etc. When I was there a couple of teenage girls confided in me that they never got to ride much because they were so busy doing chores and cooking, etc.

so as I have all this freedom and independence and realize that God is with me in conventional society I can feel sorry for their bondage.

They do have so many good traits...they are pretty good with children and teens I think....and there are so many good people there....it is not black and white but a mix....they may have grown recently and may have just moved into more of this authoritative bondage just of recent....so it is possible they may correct their course somehow....
I have encouraged Noah to visit Reba and have emailed him that I love them even though I am publicly criticizing them......Noah does not like a woman to "tell" him what to do (that is how he will percieve my suggestion...that I am telling him what to do)...they are big into the man thing.....
I think the men and the children have it the best....if I was a man I probably would do pretty well there seeing how I like to work.

Anyway, God is a big God...He loves me....I don't feel very spiritual......but God loves me and my wonderful loving husband and my children and YOU Bramble!!

Thanks for being my friend....you seem to have a lot of wisdom....

Thanks so much and God bless you this week...

Much love, peace, mercy, grace, forgiveness to you!
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

Oh Bramble...you are such a blessing to me...thanks for you caring spirit.....
We are going to the Lutheran church who hosts this really great school...they are
giving us a 25 percent discount on tuition if we join the church....I expect it will
be a standard fairly lively denominational experience....the school gives me a lot of
encouragement...my job is a stressful one at least half the time, so when I feel down I think of how I can provide this school for my boys and it encourages me.

The other church we have been going to is the Tempe Vineyard church that is an off branch of a big Vineyard church in Glendale, AZ....it is the most liberal Vineyard Church I have attended....they sometimes dance and have a lot of like chrasmatic spirit filled stuff like maybe a word of knowledge about someone's hurting ankle...on Sunday they meet in actually a movie theatre next door to their office and daycare ....

both of these churches have two or three service times on Sunday morning so we plan to attend BOTH tommorow...praise God....

part of me is rebelling against the high emotions at Tempe Vineyard....I find myself not wanting to give in and to be emotional during praise, etc.....I think I am just tired emotionally from my job and have been through so much intense emotion at the village and I just don't want to be emotional right now.

But I am there and God see me....I feel a little empty inside today and instead of trying to fill that with entertainment or material things today I will try to read the Bible and pray and try to fill that empty spot with God's Spirit and Love.

I can love the village more it seems when I think of all the things they deprive themselves of....they don't have a swimming pool....no exercise equipment....they are "OCD" (obsessive-compulsive) ...the women, that is...with their houses, cook schedules, etc....it is very consuming.....
they have a few beautiful small horses but not very many people ever ride them because they have a bunch of rules about how they should be ridden a certain way, etc. When I was there a couple of teenage girls confided in me that they never got to ride much because they were so busy doing chores and cooking, etc.

so as I have all this freedom and independence and realize that God is with me in conventional society I can feel sorry for their bondage.

They do have so many good traits...they are pretty good with children and teens I think....and there are so many good people there....it is not black and white but a mix....they may have grown recently and may have just moved into more of this authoritative bondage just of recent....so it is possible they may correct their course somehow....
I have encouraged Noah to visit Reba and have emailed him that I love them even though I am publicly criticizing them......Noah does not like a woman to "tell" him what to do (that is how he will percieve my suggestion...that I am telling him what to do)...they are big into the man thing.....
I think the men and the children have it the best....if I was a man I probably would do pretty well there seeing how I like to work.

Anyway, God is a big God...He loves me....I don't feel very spiritual......but God loves me and my wonderful loving husband and my children and YOU Bramble!!

Thanks for being my friend....you seem to have a lot of wisdom....

Thanks so much and God bless you this week...

Much love, peace, mercy, grace, forgiveness to you!
Earnestseeker

Just a quick reply--more later. Be very careful about non-mainline Churches. I learned the hard way why my mainline Churches are safe. I don't know much about Vineyard Church. They sound like they could be an abusive Church. I am extremely wary about some of these Charismatic Churches: CFCMI, UCPI and others...

Charismatic Churches, also seem to be emotion driven and not scriptural. Much of their prophecy is false. Remember the fortune cookie that says, "You will be receiving a phone call from a friend"? Chances are it came true! Be very careful about Vineyard! Cult Churches often have "Secret Knowlege" and are elitist. I'll see what I can find out about Vineyard on the web. I will get back to you. (BTW: A good book to buy is Toxic Faith. I aim to get a copy myself.)

My own personal experince with Charismatics is that Speaking in Tongues is ALL THAT! In some Charismatic Churches one is unsaved if one doesn't speak in Tongues. Some in their Churches fake it. We cannot measure another's holiness by material measure. Charismatics can also can be a contentious, hard hearted lot.

Our faith is not based on FEELINGS. For years I didn't feel God's love, but still knew He was there for me and that He loved me.

As far as Lutherans and similar Churches go, you can join the parish without converting to get your children into their parochial schools. This is a good place to start. They will not demand 80-100 percent of what you make, or put huge demands on your free time, either. Tithing is a suggestion, not a directive in a healthy Church.

God Bless You!


Your Friend,
Bramble

[bramble]

I found these links:
www.vineyardusa.org (http://www.vineyardusa.org) and www.apologeticsindex.org/a92.html (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/a92.html) regarding Vineyard. There is a page on the Old Factnet. The link didn't go through, but you can search for it.

I noticed that they are associated with the "Toronto Blessing" and Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship. Interesting!

I am not sure what their creed is. I read several links from several Vineyard churches. Do you know what they believe?

I hope these links are a help to you. Let me know what you think.


God Bless!

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble...we will be careful...thanks....God is really blessing us...we got a three bedroom townhouse today just one half mile from Daniel and David's lutheran school...my job is going better and better and the people there love me....I am working as hard as I can...about fifty hours per week.....I am going to work hard this year.....
I can't believe what happened to us at Rose Creek but I am trying hard not to feel hurt and to forgive...I can't believe how they can be so cold....I am a very loving and loyal person.....it could have worked out, I think.....

They just can't help but fall into the trap of controlling others....I know that to a man to have authority over others and to control others must be quite a rush. And so many people like to have a leader to control their lives....this is not me, but I know a lot of people have a weakness for this.....the group setting can be a powerful psychological thing....who wants to be the ONE in three hundred that questions authority?
Well thank God we are out and God is rapidly putting our lives back together and God used the good in the village to help us grow....God will use a donkey if that is all he had....my repentance toward God that I did there....that was real and God saw that...

Thank you God for blessing me and my family and I know you love me, God, and I know you love my family and I know you love Rose Creek Village, God. Help me to forgive them and help them to see the error of their ways and how to walk in your Spirit and to really love people with God's love and gentleness and meekness...and help them learn how to love each other and to have some fun in this life and freedom and understanding.......

God help us all.....help our country......
God is love......

[earnestseeker]

Hi there Bramble....I sure did have a hard day at work!! Everyone in the world coming at me...patients "going bad"....like three or four today.....this place is too big, has too many sick, sick patients and not enough people like me.....I'm having minor chest pain which I have had for two or three years now....

I'm thinking about leaving the field of nursing for some lower-paying job....people like the doctors and other coworkers in the medical field are so rude....it is so stressful....

I feel beat...and then I have all this spiritual stuff I'm going through....trying to heal from and understand what happened at Rose Creek village......still just confused by it all......such nice people in so many ways but then so rejecting of people like us....they just completely turn their backs....just because you don't want to do what they want to do one hundred percent....I mean...that is not God....why do they think they have something special going on there?

It is just a private club, that's all......nothing Godly about that......

I feel sick today......need help.....don't care anymore......probably just exhausted....

Well I will try to find some peace and maybe look at getting just a low stress low paying job for now....

Hope your day went better,
earnestseeker

[bramble]

Hi there Bramble....I sure did have a hard day at work!! Everyone in the world coming at me...patients "going bad"....like three or four today.....this place is too big, has too many sick, sick patients and not enough people like me.....I'm having minor chest pain which I have had for two or three years now....

I'm thinking about leaving the field of nursing for some lower-paying job....people like the doctors and other coworkers in the medical field are so rude....it is so stressful....

I feel beat...and then I have all this spiritual stuff I'm going through....trying to heal from and understand what happened at Rose Creek village......still just confused by it all......such nice people in so many ways but then so rejecting of people like us....they just completely turn their backs....just because you don't want to do what they want to do one hundred percent....I mean...that is not God....why do they think they have something special going on there?

It is just a private club, that's all......nothing Godly about that......

I feel sick today......need help.....don't care anymore......probably just exhausted....

Well I will try to find some peace and maybe look at getting just a low stress low paying job for now....

Hope your day went better,
earnestseeker

I was wondering is there any way to find a happy medium? Part Time Nursing? Nursing that doesn't require overtime? Some nurses work in nursing homes--more laid back! Can you cut back to 40 hrs or less?

Have you checked out any employment agencies?

Even 'minimum wage jobs' are stressful--flipping burgers, pizzas, retail! It all revolves around deadlines and quotas! Been there. Done that.

I was wondering how you could work so many hours coming out of what you had just been through. The main thing is to get better. I wouldn't put off any councelling. Also be patient with yourself and others. Try to see Jesus in everyone. It is almost as if you lost a loved one. The first year will be the hardest one.

Strange it may seem, I, to have experienced the kind of abuse you have--not to such a degree. Still, it still makes me crazy that my friend is still in one! I can relate!

Is your husband working? That can make a difference if you want a career change.

I'm no doctor, but chest pains can be serious or not. It could be asthma, anxiety, exhaustion, heart disease...maybe a good work-up would do you some good.

Since you asked, my June has been so busy that it ran into July! Still doing a lot of running around--errands etc.

Hang in There! I'll keep you all in my prayers!

Love,
Bramble

PS: Congrats on the new home!

[earnestseeker]

Yeah...a new home next tuesday...three bedroom and one bath, praise God...woke up feeling great this morning, Bramble. I am applying for school nurse positions for this coming school year....there is one in particular that I am interested in ....on an Indian reservation not too far from where we live...
I can work at this skilled nursing home until that starts...they don't have any RN applicants so I don't feel guilty for leaving...I will give them as generous of a notice as I can....
School nursing will pay about like a teacher's salary but it should be less stressful hopefully and less hours so I can focus on spiritual things and also my family.

Thanks for your prayers and encouragement....we are going to a bible study this evening....it is the Pentecostal Church of God, though...so I am going to be careful this is not cultlike....so far there is nothing about shepherding on their website...we want SOME involvement and intimacy and some spiritual leadership, just not to the extreme of Rose Creek Village....

We will be careful...

Peace, love, grace, joy, mercy to you,
earnestseeker and family

[bramble]

Yeah...a new home next tuesday...three bedroom and one bath, praise God...woke up feeling great this morning, Bramble. I am applying for school nurse positions for this coming school year....there is one in particular that I am interested in ....on an Indian reservation not too far from where we live...
I can work at this skilled nursing home until that starts...they don't have any RN applicants so I don't feel guilty for leaving...I will give them as generous of a notice as I can....
School nursing will pay about like a teacher's salary but it should be less stressful hopefully and less hours so I can focus on spiritual things and also my family.

Thanks for your prayers and encouragement....we are going to a bible study this evening....it is the Pentecostal Church of God, though...so I am going to be careful this is not cultlike....so far there is nothing about shepherding on their website...we want SOME involvement and intimacy and some spiritual leadership, just not to the extreme of Rose Creek Village....

We will be careful...

Peace, love, grace, joy, mercy to you,
earnestseeker and family

If I were you, I would stick with the Lutherans, for now. That's just my two cents. How much have you talked with the Pastor? Does he have a wife? Does she head up some sort of Ladies'/Women's Club/Ministry that puts on festivals/bazaars? Do they have Bible Studies there?

My friend is in a sect that is about one generation removed from being Pentecostal. He probably has such an irrational fear of Hell that he may never leave; I hope and pray he does leave. CFCMI uses that sort of hard core control tactics. His first involvement with them was going to their Bible Studies. He has been there going on twenty-five years. :(

What I know of Apostolic/Pentacostals sects it this: they 'love bomb' you until you are 'baptised' Then, and then only, are they might become more open about what they believe--if ever. They often expect extreme fasts of 3 days or more per week. They have strict dress codes--no pants, no shorts, certain colors: maybe navy blue. They have extreme time and financial commitments--often nearly everything you make and all your free time. I'll see what I can find on PCG. Let me know how it goes at this Bible Study, just the same.

Is this a 'Onenss' or 'Trinitarian' Church? That could make a difference. My friend is in a 'Oneness' Church.

The problem with cults, as has been told, and retold, to me over the past year can be likened to placing a frog in a pot of cold water. As the pot is gradually heated slowly he will just stay there until he is boiled alive. If that same frog were placed in a pot of boiling water he would have leaped out to safety.

I got a copy of "Toxic Faith" by Stephen Aterburn and Jack Felton the other day. It is a good read. Cults are a form of Dysfunctional Families. Those who grow up in abusive families may be the most susceptible. I hope to finish it this weekend.

Good luck finding an easier job. Take care of yourselves!

Religion wise, sometimes it is important to just BE a Child of God and not part of any denomination or 'non-demonitation'. Don't feel like you have to be a part of any religion right now. Just ease into it. Take time to heal. Let go and let God.


God Bless You! I'll pray for you!

Love,
Bramble

[earnestseeker]

That is very interesting, Bramble...I am going to read that again....you have some very good words.....I am definitely going to the Lutheran church because that is where my children are going to school and if we go there, we get a twenty-five percent discount on tuition. They were lively and very solid in their teaching Sunday.
This Bible study tonight was a very small.....a new church starting up.....they were very friendly and we got to share....they gave us individual attention and then prayed for us and another couple at the end....they prayed that we would be able to forgive Rose Creek Village and the pastor said that often christians will shut out a brother or sister when they are needed the most.....and they will think they are doing the right thing, being decieved.....
So they prayed for us to forgive Rose Creek village and to repent of any bitterness or resentment toward them. We prayed that God would send His Mercy, Love, Peace and Truth to Rose Creek Village.

This small new church has a ministry obviously to those who have had trouble with addictions......

It felt good to be there....small and friendly.....met a social need.
I will keep my eyes open for any signs of them wanting to control us.

Thanks for your word.....I was feeling a little confused since we have gone to three churches...the Lutheran one, the Tempe Vineyard and now this small Pentacostal Church of God one.

Love ya.....I appreciate your prayers and support during this time of rebuilding...God Bless you richly Bramble....some day we will meet :)....

Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Hey Bramble...had a restful two days off...now four days on at the nursing center...hope it is an OK weekend...my husband is good at praying, so I have that going for me....

Just looked at Rose Creek Village website....curious about what babies have been born....saw a picture of Haviylah Taylor....you know...the senior leader's wife...the nurse, or retired nurse....sure did have a lot of emotion come up when I saw her picture....why did I like her so much?
Weird.....
I tried to get close to her at the village but was not successful, really....she's got a "leader complex"...too popular....doesn't want to be bothered too much....I asked her if I could cook with her one hour a week and she basicly ignored me.....my first day there she said she was my "spiritual mom" when I asked if she and Noah were like pastors....then later she said...."you know...you're not the only kid...." when we talked about my frustrations regarding our friendship.

She could be sweet at times and then at other times could have a really sharp tongue....typical nurse, really....I've run into that a lot. I'm glad my real mother is not so sharp tongued...my mom has had a lot of substance abuse problems but she really is a very sweet, very forgiving and gentle-natured person.

Well, I'm doing good....met some people of God last night as I told you.....

I've updated my website: www.rosecreekvillagetruth.com (http://www.rosecreekvillagetruth.com) if you are interested.

Been studying forgiveness.....

Love and Peace, Mercy, Grace and Forgiveness to you ,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble...I have thought a lot about the woman I really liked at Rose Creek Village: Haviylah Taylor.....she seemed to minister to me the most even though she was just as quick as any other to "drop me" and exclude me after I left their physical boundaries.
Seems awlful shallow....you know that is how babies are "out of sight, out of mind".
May God help them.....and me....I wish I had some close friends to have fun with.
I have you on the internet at least.
I have the good people that I work with. I have some of the sweetest patients on the planet.
I have my children and my wonderful Husband. And I have God.

Still a little aching loneliness.....we might consider moving next summer to Reba Fellowship in Chicago area or another christian community. Reba has a lot of fellowship and gentleness.....a lot of maturity.....they have learned how to live together and not to control one another. They leave a lot of space for differences. I could fit in there. But I hate the cold weather.
We will see what develops here. We are just moving here. The weather is so awesome here. Phoenix is an awesome place to live and a pretty laid back place for a big city. We really like the metro Phoenix area.... and jobs are plentiful.

Lots of sunshine.....just one forecast most of the time....sunny!! I had a pretty good day at work...busy as usual but nothing insane...just one family member got hateful with me today so that's not too bad. I'm thinking about keeping this job if I can ....it would help us catch up financially if I could hold onto it for a while. It is a good bunch of people there.

God Bless You,
Bethany

[bramble]

Hi Bramble...I have thought a lot about the woman I really liked at Rose Creek Village: Haviylah Taylor.....she seemed to minister to me the most even though she was just as quick as any other to "drop me" and exclude me after I left their physical boundaries.
Seems awlful shallow....you know that is how babies are "out of sight, out of mind".
May God help them.....and me....I wish I had some close friends to have fun with.
I have you on the internet at least.
I have the good people that I work with. I have some of the sweetest patients on the planet.
I have my children and my wonderful Husband. And I have God.

Still a little aching loneliness.....we might consider moving next summer to Reba Fellowship in Chicago area or another christian community. Reba has a lot of fellowship and gentleness.....a lot of maturity.....they have learned how to live together and not to control one another. They leave a lot of space for differences. I could fit in there. But I hate the cold weather.
We will see what develops here. We are just moving here. The weather is so awesome here. Phoenix is an awesome place to live and a pretty laid back place for a big city. We really like the metro Phoenix area.... and jobs are plentiful.

Lots of sunshine.....just one forecast most of the time....sunny!! I had a pretty good day at work...busy as usual but nothing insane...just one family member got hateful with me today so that's not too bad. I'm thinking about keeping this job if I can ....it would help us catch up financially if I could hold onto it for a while. It is a good bunch of people there.

God Bless You,
Bethany

I've been reading a lot about 'cults' 'sects' etc. once one leaves those left inside don't want to know that person. They are all like that. You miss these people. They have been your life for much of the last year. Similar groups will probably bring similar problems. You are in mourning and withdrawl, IMO.

I read something about Reba Fellowship--can't remember what. See if they are on FACTnet.

Here are a couple good links: www.rickross.com (http://www.rickross.com) ,www.freedomofmind.org (http://www.freedomofmind.org) . Articles on these two sites and on FACTnet helped me the most. You can learn a lot. There is a good Australian site, too. I'll have to find the link.

Weather has been nice here, too, and probably everywhere. Good for watching fireworks.

Good luck with your job situation whatever you decide to do.

God Bless You! Happy July 4th!

[bramble]

Hi Bramble...I have thought a lot about the woman I really liked at Rose Creek Village: Haviylah Taylor.....she seemed to minister to me the most even though she was just as quick as any other to "drop me" and exclude me after I left their physical boundaries.
Seems awlful shallow....you know that is how babies are "out of sight, out of mind".
May God help them.....and me....I wish I had some close friends to have fun with.
I have you on the internet at least.
I have the good people that I work with. I have some of the sweetest patients on the planet.
I have my children and my wonderful Husband. And I have God.

Still a little aching loneliness.....we might consider moving next summer to Reba Fellowship in Chicago area or another christian community. Reba has a lot of fellowship and gentleness.....a lot of maturity.....they have learned how to live together and not to control one another. They leave a lot of space for differences. I could fit in there. But I hate the cold weather.
We will see what develops here. We are just moving here. The weather is so awesome here. Phoenix is an awesome place to live and a pretty laid back place for a big city. We really like the metro Phoenix area.... and jobs are plentiful.

Lots of sunshine.....just one forecast most of the time....sunny!! I had a pretty good day at work...busy as usual but nothing insane...just one family member got hateful with me today so that's not too bad. I'm thinking about keeping this job if I can ....it would help us catch up financially if I could hold onto it for a while. It is a good bunch of people there.

God Bless You,
Bethany

I've been reading a lot about 'cults' 'sects' etc. once one leaves those left inside don't want to know that person. They are all like that. You miss these people. They have been your life for much of the last year. Similar groups will probably bring similar problems. You are in mourning and withdrawl, IMO.

I read something about Reba Fellowship--can't remember what. See if they are on FACTnet.

Here are a couple good links: www.rickross.com (http://www.rickross.com) ,www.freedomofmind.org (http://www.freedomofmind.org) . Articles on these two sites and on FACTnet helped me the most. You can learn a lot. There is a good Australian site, too. I'll have to find the link.

Weather has been nice here, too, and probably everywhere. Good for watching fireworks.

Good luck with your job situation whatever you decide to do.

God Bless You! Happy July 4th!

[earnestseeker]

Oh Bramble...God Bless you for your emails!! I feel like such an isolated soul even though I am surrounded by tons of people at work. Who has time to socialize? I am going to keep trying in my spare time to build relationships.

I am missing Rose Creek Village and dreaming of reconciliation and a VISIT...not moving back....so much GOOD in some of these groups ...it is frustrating it cannot work out.....

I will be leary of anyone that tries to control me....I am interested in some of the books you have mentioned....I plan to buy a couple when I get the extra money....

I am healing I think and being forced to move forward...I want to hang onto Rose Creek Village relationships on the inside of me....part of me is still there in their village and they don't even know it.....
I am healing I think and forgiving more and more....there is a patient at my nursing home that has major psych issues....she reminds me of Haviylah Taylor...you know the woman I really liked that was the senior leader's wife at the village.....

It is making me laugh on the inside...this crazy patient looks like Haviylah Taylor will probably look in thirty years....it is SO FUNNY!!!
So it is good I am starting to laugh about things some.....

Love ya....don't worry too much about me....I appreciate your emails and your prayers...my job went pretty good today...no one was hateful today....
Love, Peace, Mercy, Grace, Forgiveness and Truth to you,
Bethany

[bramble]

Oh Bramble...God Bless you for your emails!! I feel like such an isolated soul even though I am surrounded by tons of people at work. Who has time to socialize? I am going to keep trying in my spare time to build relationships.

I am missing Rose Creek Village and dreaming of reconciliation and a VISIT...not moving back....so much GOOD in some of these groups ...it is frustrating it cannot work out.....

I will be leary of anyone that tries to control me....I am interested in some of the books you have mentioned....I plan to buy a couple when I get the extra money....

I am healing I think and being forced to move forward...I want to hang onto Rose Creek Village relationships on the inside of me....part of me is still there in their village and they don't even know it.....
I am healing I think and forgiving more and more....there is a patient at my nursing home that has major psych issues....she reminds me of Haviylah Taylor...you know the woman I really liked that was the senior leader's wife at the village.....

It is making me laugh on the inside...this crazy patient looks like Haviylah Taylor will probably look in thirty years....it is SO FUNNY!!!
So it is good I am starting to laugh about things some.....

Love ya....don't worry too much about me....I appreciate your emails and your prayers...my job went pretty good today...no one was hateful today....
Love, Peace, Mercy, Grace, Forgiveness and Truth to you,
Bethany


I know work has its ups and downs--as do most things in life. I'm glad you can now see the humor in things. Remember these things take time. I wonder what Havilah will be like in 30 years!

Consider getting a book called Toxic Faith by Arterburn--I think his name is. He has a "12 step" approach to this whole thing. Most book stores can get it. FACTnet also sells it. I saw what you wrote about extra money. Just don't neglect yourself. Until then there are plenty of good articles on the internet.

God Bless!

[earnestseeker]

Thanks Bramble.....

Love and Peace to you, Sister!
Jesus is alive and on the throne!
He love ME....He loves YOU....He loves these groups that
give us lots to think about!!!
I miss my friends at Rose Creek....they will have to put up with me for eternity...they should just forgive me for whatever and be friends with me.....

I know I've got a very good side and a dark side that can come out if I am cornered...like a lot of people.

Jesus is Lord and I ask Him for his love and strength.....

I had a decent four days at work and I have a day off tommorow....we get our place tommorow....things goin' good.....
Enjoying my work more than I ever had...
praise God....
love ya,
Bethany

[bramble]

Good luck on moving in the new place. I'm glad to hear you're getting some days off.

Regarding your other thread. A poster on www.abusivechurches.org (http://www.abusivechurches.org) used to say, "You have to leave the cult before you can know that you were in a cult" or something to that effect. I've been there, too!

God Bless,

Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Hi there Bramble....we got our place tuesday.....it is a three bedroom condo...one bath...CUTE...new paint, new tile....not very big but just big enough....the Lutheran Thrift Store is helping us get started with some free furniture, and my christian coworker is giving me twin beds ....all this tommorow....
I have not had internet lately....I get it in my home this Monday.....
so I will be back at the keyboard soon....
I am emailing Pastor Daniel from India ...he has the Mercy Home ministry...he emails me every other day and I am going to start supporting one of those Mercy Homes with ten children in it....so I will be the proud parent of 12 children!!
Maybe will go to India to see Pastor Daniel and the children next summer....
My job is going good...God has given me favor and he is giving me the strength to do this job....
I am tired but I like my work more than I ever have and I have a new depth to me since God has reentered my life. I am reading a book by ? common author?...Max Lucado..that is it....very good book. I also have some ? Logos tapes I am starting to listen to....a talented scholar of the Bible walks you through the whole Bible sharing interesting facts with you....he starts with Genesis...so I am starting with tape one.
The Lutheran church we go to has a library with these free materials you can check out.
I seem to be getting over Rose Creek more and more.....the past two mornings I have looked in the mirror and I liked what I saw. For the past year, year and a half I have had a really hard time looking in the mirror but I am apparently coming out of that.

Praise God....I thank God for the work he has done in my heart and in my husband's heart. We still live in a good country...there are still a lot of christian people in the world.

God has protected me, blessed me and my family and is rapidly putting us back together...mentally and financially.

Well....thanks for being my internet friend...I will email you more.....

how is your life going? do you have peace, happiness?

I am working on living in more and more peace, regardless of what is happening around me....I am trying to fill my mind with christian music and the word of God when I am not working.

God is good. He loves us one and all. Praise God for His Mercy and His Forgiveness of our petty sins, petty desires.

Praise Jesus the Saviour of our souls......

Peace Out!
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

Now who is this Pastor Daniel, again? Tell me more about Mercy Home Ministry. Is this the same as RCV? I forget.

I can see that God is giving you the grace to cope and to move on.

I'm glad that your Church has a library that you can take advantage of. Our Church has one, too. IMO, it is a resource that really helps people grow in their faith.

Max Lucado--sounds farmilar. Tell me more.

Have a great weekend!

[earnestseeker]

Pastor Daniel is a minister from India...has Mercy Home Ministries....he travels around the U.S. to raise support for Mercy Homes...he is a friend of Rose Creek Village...he is more open minded than RCV, though...he does not think it is bad to live separately and to have some privacy...he thinks each person has their particular calling and that I simply am not called to Rose Creek Village....he take ten orphans from India and places them with a couple from a church in India and then finds people in the U.S. to help support these homes....it takes about twenty five dollars a month to feed a child in India, I think...
So Phil and I are going to support this ministry when we get on our feet some more.

I met with a woman that attends the Lutheran church we are joining and sending our kids to their school.....she is older than me....68 years old and she is going to be a mentor/ counselor type friend to me...part of the "Stephen's Ministry" at this Lutheran church. We met today and just shared some things about our work and where we had lived, etc.

We are also going to that Pentacostal Church of God bible study...only three other adults there Wed night....

Everything is going well.....my weekend off seemed very short ....I am struggling to get rested for more work......

We furnished almost our whole house for 200 dollars with the Lutheran Thrift store giving us some furniture, and my coworker and then Good will with their fifty percent off sale.....so we are comfortable and blessed. I thank god that even though I am going back to work again tommorow that He will be with me all through the day and that will make my day special.

Well....love, peace, joy, mercy to you....I am missing the village....remembering the good.....I am forgiving whatever and moving forward......
I will have lots of friends in heaven.....

Have a good night Bramble,
earnestseeker

[bramble]

Pastor Daniel is a minister from India...has Mercy Home Ministries....he travels around the U.S. to raise support for Mercy Homes...he is a friend of Rose Creek Village...he is more open minded than RCV, though...he does not think it is bad to live separately and to have some privacy...he thinks each person has their particular calling and that I simply am not called to Rose Creek Village....he take ten orphans from India and places them with a couple from a church in India and then finds people in the U.S. to help support these homes....it takes about twenty five dollars a month to feed a child in India, I think...
So Phil and I are going to support this ministry when we get on our feet some more.

I met with a woman that attends the Lutheran church we are joining and sending our kids to their school.....she is older than me....68 years old and she is going to be a mentor/ counselor type friend to me...part of the "Stephen's Ministry" at this Lutheran church. We met today and just shared some things about our work and where we had lived, etc.

We are also going to that Pentacostal Church of God bible study...only three other adults there Wed night....

Everything is going well.....my weekend off seemed very short ....I am struggling to get rested for more work......

We furnished almost our whole house for 200 dollars with the Lutheran Thrift store giving us some furniture, and my coworker and then Good will with their fifty percent off sale.....so we are comfortable and blessed. I thank god that even though I am going back to work again tommorow that He will be with me all through the day and that will make my day special.

Well....love, peace, joy, mercy to you....I am missing the village....remembering the good.....I am forgiving whatever and moving forward......
I will have lots of friends in heaven.....

Have a good night Bramble,
earnestseeker

I thought you said in an earlier post that Pastor Daniel was somehow affilliated with RCV. I see now that my memory was correct.

So you have a mentor at the Lutheran Church...This is reasuring. Tell me more about this Stephen's Ministry. Is it a support group?

Just out of curiosity, why are you so interested in Pentecostalism? Have you previously been a Pentecostal? How well does Pentecostal Christianity fit together with Lutheranism? Are you 'shopping'?

I'm so glad that the Lutheran Thrift Store and Church has been so generous to you and your family.

If you find the time please read www.abusivechurches.org (http://www.abusivechurches.org). I think that you can empathise with these people. The interesting thing about CFCMI is that there were a few major walkouts starting about 1999. In 2000 two former members, husband and wife and, also, his sister started this website. People who left together were message boarding back and forth. The truth of this corrupt organization came out.

I see how many of them felt lonely after walking out, but they drew courage from each other to not go back. In many cases, leadership would not have allowed them to return. Sociologically, I find it sad, yet facinating. I'm sure even RCV had its good moments. CFCMI had a few, too. IMO, bad still outweighs good.

I pray that God leads you the Church He would have you join. Read everything you can from outside sources, too.

I've observed that when a person leave a 'cult' it takes years, decades even, before the 'cult' leaves that person--it gets under their skin. Take it easy whatever you do.

God Bless You!

[earnestseeker]

Pastor Daniel from India is encouraging me to just value what I have learned from Rose Creek Village and to move on. He does not think I am called to their way of living. He is a well educated man....he is very humble and loving....he went to seminary in India....he travels to many different churches looking for support for his "mercy homes"...couples that take in either ten boy orphans or ten girl orphans...Pastor Daniel lives in India but he come to the U.S. for two months out of the year to thank those who are helping the mercy homes and to raise support for these families....
So he is a friend of Rose Creek Village but I think he has a broader view of things than RCV does....he sees the whole picture and does not get bogged down with people living in proximity to one another, etc. ....is not exclusive in his thinking....

I am happy he is an influence on RCV....it is my hope that God will show them some of the legalism and controlling behaviors that they are walking in, as well as some abuse of spiritual authority, and that they will repent as the leaders of Reba Fellowship did many years ago.....

Anyway, I do not feel threatened by him....

As for your question about Lutheran and then Church of God.....we are attracted to the Lutheran church because they are the church sponsoring the lutheran school our boys will go to...they offer a twenty-five percent discount on tuition if you join the church.....
We also find life in the church.....

The Church of God Pentacostal church does not seem unusual in any way....it is such a small group....there are only a handful of adults so far.....small undecorated building....just a brand new start....they are not asking for anything....we are just fellowshipping and singing and praying and studying the Bible....
it has been good.
So many churches we have investigated....Lutherans, Baptists, Mennonite, Methodists, Church of God.....they believe so much of the same thing....we always look for belief in the trinity, salvation, etc.
We can take speaking in tongues or leave it....I don't begrudge someone if they want to do this and I don't feel pressured to do this myself.....

I don't know if that helps ....I kinda think this whole denomination thing is another example of man's stupidity...there is so much similarity I wish we could all join together and not be so divided.

Anyway, I guess we are truly "nondenominational" at heart...we really don't pay much attention to the label on our clothes, either :).

Anyway I sent a simple email to Noah and Haviylah Taylor....telling them I love them and miss them....they continue to just ignore my emails which hurts some... I feel very puzzled...I saw a lot of christian faith in action in Haviylah and she told me some things that I will never forget...spiritual things that apply to me....she helped me overcome my thinking about men, sex, etc.....she had been there before.....

so she was truly like a spiritual mother to me in some ways, but then just like all the others so quick to turn her back on me simply because I moved physically out of the village.
I think she knows better about some things at the village....but she is married to Noah now for twenty years, has daughters and grandchildren now....she is not going to "buck the system" so to speak...she is just going to go along with whatever the men say and just tend to her children.

I'm sure a lot of the people at the village know that there are some things that are off but they push this down and avoid the tremendous pain of risking social punishment, humiliation and intimidation. The RCV leaders like Noah and Chashaq have learned that if they use a little intimidation they can get quick results and see quick changes in people that way.
But this is not God's way. And even though they are trying to influence people not to cuss, etc...which they see as a good end....their means of getting there is not God's way.
God is a gentleman.

They believe in some side of Christ that is rough....they believe that manhood and masculinity and macho attitudes are all correct in a biblical sense.....they are vague about what they really believe but I think that Noah is pulling something from the OLD testament about how men can act forceful, etc. although he does not come out and say it.
I know Noah often says "God works through men!!" and "This is not a democracy!"

Then I learned recently that there were a lot of powerful women even in the old testament that God worked through.
I tried to be a homemaker and I thought I could do this at RCV...but I could not do this there. It was not fun. It seemed obsessive....and ALL day long, all week long. And I was not laughing and enjoying myself among other christians.....I felt rather driven, boxed in by schedules and lists and by what one of the women wanted me to do...and people were getting really bent out of shape by little things....
LOVE did not rule....grace was not there strong enough...
a lot of schedules, rules, and control was what ruled.....
you should love your brother and sister if they live with you or if they decide to move a few miles away....nothing can separate us from God
s love....

Anyway, I think I am walking in what God wants me to do as a working mother....I am a nurse, a servant to the sick....I am called to give money to certain ministries....

I mentally could not handle living with a lot of people...worrying about such minor things and having two hour meetings over when I wanted to take a shower one day....
I just could not do it....but I sincerely tried.

Anyway, I am doing great...I feel God is protecting me and has given me great favor at my job.
Don't worry too much about me Bramble ....I'm doing better than ever....
I did learn some good things at the village....Noah taught me to practice feeling grateful and thinking about GOOD things people have done for me, etc.

Perhaps God used the village to accomplish a few things in us spiritually....
God can use a great many people to accomplish His work in us.


Anyway.....in heaven we will all be together and things will not be like they are on earth....this life is a very small thing compared to eternity....

God Bless You Bramble,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

Pastor Daniel from India is encouraging me to just value what I have learned from Rose Creek Village and to move on. He does not think I am called to their way of living. He is a well educated man....he is very humble and loving....he went to seminary in India....he travels to many different churches looking for support for his "mercy homes"...couples that take in either ten boy orphans or ten girl orphans...Pastor Daniel lives in India but he come to the U.S. for two months out of the year to thank those who are helping the mercy homes and to raise support for these families....
So he is a friend of Rose Creek Village but I think he has a broader view of things than RCV does....he sees the whole picture and does not get bogged down with people living in proximity to one another, etc. ....is not exclusive in his thinking.... He sounds like a good man. Do you know where he got his degree?

I am happy he is an influence on RCV....it is my hope that God will show them some of the legalism and controlling behaviors that they are walking in, as well as some abuse of spiritual authority, and that they will repent as the leaders of Reba Fellowship did many years ago.....

Anyway, I do not feel threatened by him.... The thing to consider is does RCV like being legalistic and controlling? Is this a way of life for the Taylors? I have learned that changing others can be extremely difficult even if THEY would want to change.

As for your question about Lutheran and then Church of God.....we are attracted to the Lutheran church because they are the church sponsoring the lutheran school our boys will go to...they offer a twenty-five percent discount on tuition if you join the church.....
We also find life in the church..... I have met many Godly and holy Lutherans--some just last night, in fact. I share many, but not all of their beliefs. I know where they are coming from. I know I can trust them.

The Church of God Pentacostal church does not seem unusual in any way....it is such a small group....there are only a handful of adults so far.....small undecorated building....just a brand new start....they are not asking for anything....we are just fellowshipping and singing and praying and studying the Bible....
it has been good.
So many churches we have investigated....Lutherans, Baptists, Mennonite, Methodists, Church of God.....they believe so much of the same thing....we always look for belief in the trinity, salvation, etc.
We can take speaking in tongues or leave it....I don't begrudge someone if they want to do this and I don't feel pressured to do this myself..... I'm just a little wary about Pentecostals because from what I know of them and my friend's church. One moment you are studying the Bible and fellowshipping with them. The next you are baptised and they start trying to control your: thought, money, time etc. etc. Some of them are Sabellians--"Oneness". They still have a confused notion of the Trinity. Please visit www.expentecostal.org (http://www.expentecostal.org) . There may be GOOD Pentecostal Churches, but the ones I've seen and heard about keep tabs on your income and tell YOU how much money YOU SHOULD be putting in the collection. I can say my experience with them is less than positive.

I don't know if that helps ....I kinda think this whole denomination thing is another example of man's stupidity...there is so much similarity I wish we could all join together and not be so divided.

Anyway, I guess we are truly "nondenominational" at heart...we really don't pay much attention to the label on our clothes, either :). I agree. I am in some ways ecumenical. I'm not sure what "nondenominational" is. I know Pentecostal and Apostolics love this label. The test is to find a Church that teaches the Bible with authority and has the MOST TRUTH and doesn't twist the truth or the Bible.

To date there are some 55,000 different Denominations and they keep splintering. Why? SIN!! Denominations come from man not getting along with man. They can't agree on how to interpret the Bible, for one thing. Walkouts form newer churches. CFCMI has many splinters. The walkout pastors may be holier, I can't say firsthand.

Anyway I sent a simple email to Noah and Haviylah Taylor....telling them I love them and miss them....they continue to just ignore my emails which hurts some... I feel very puzzled...I saw a lot of christian faith in action in Haviylah and she told me some things that I will never forget...spiritual things that apply to me....she helped me overcome my thinking about men, sex, etc.....she had been there before.....

so she was truly like a spiritual mother to me in some ways, but then just like all the others so quick to turn her back on me simply because I moved physically out of the village.
I think she knows better about some things at the village....but she is married to Noah now for twenty years, has daughters and grandchildren now....she is not going to "buck the system" so to speak...she is just going to go along with whatever the men say and just tend to her children.

I'm sure a lot of the people at the village know that there are some things that are off but they push this down and avoid the tremendous pain of risking social punishment, humiliation and intimidation. The RCV leaders like Noah and Chashaq have learned that if they use a little intimidation they can get quick results and see quick changes in people that way.
But this is not God's way. And even though they are trying to influence people not to cuss, etc...which they see as a good end....their means of getting there is not God's way.
God is a gentleman.

They believe in some side of Christ that is rough....they believe that manhood and masculinity and macho attitudes are all correct in a biblical sense.....they are vague about what they really believe but I think that Noah is pulling something from the OLD testament about how men can act forceful, etc. although he does not come out and say it.
I know Noah often says "God works through men!!" and "This is not a democracy!"

Then I learned recently that there were a lot of powerful women even in the old testament that God worked through.
I tried to be a homemaker and I thought I could do this at RCV...but I could not do this there. It was not fun. It seemed obsessive....and ALL day long, all week long. And I was not laughing and enjoying myself among other christians.....I felt rather driven, boxed in by schedules and lists and by what one of the women wanted me to do...and people were getting really bent out of shape by little things....
LOVE did not rule....grace was not there strong enough...
a lot of schedules, rules, and control was what ruled.....
you should love your brother and sister if they live with you or if they decide to move a few miles away....nothing can separate us from God
s love....

Anyway, I think I am walking in what God wants me to do as a working mother....I am a nurse, a servant to the sick....I am called to give money to certain ministries....

I mentally could not handle living with a lot of people...worrying about such minor things and having two hour meetings over when I wanted to take a shower one day....
I just could not do it....but I sincerely tried.

Anyway, I am doing great...I feel God is protecting me and has given me great favor at my job.
Don't worry too much about me Bramble ....I'm doing better than ever....
I did learn some good things at the village....Noah taught me to practice feeling grateful and thinking about GOOD things people have done for me, etc.

Perhaps God used the village to accomplish a few things in us spiritually....
God can use a great many people to accomplish His work in us.


Anyway.....in heaven we will all be together and things will not be like they are on earth....this life is a very small thing compared to eternity....

God Bless You Bramble,
Earnestseeker

I can tell that RCV has been a learning experience for you. You were too strong for them and didn't stay long enough to be truly sucked in--IMO. I understand missing them. For now you need to let go and heal.

I am so stubborn at times that I can't stand people telling me how to do or when to do mundane things like showering, cooking, etc. etc. I can see you are also that way. This can be a virtue. You seem to have much to much confidence for being pushed around. I don't think God likes communities where a leader tells us: what to wear, when to shower, what to eat, where to live, who to trust, who to obey etc. Do you think RCV uses housework as a way to keep women in their place? Does it seem that those in authority have connections rather than qualifications?

I, too, believe God wants strong women. God works through women, too! Mary is the Mother of God! Christianity is not for wimps. Hang in there.

I care about you. My prayer for you is that you can grow, heal, and learn. We all must do that. Pray that God leads you to the Church he wants you to belong to. I admire your candour and honesty.

Read up on Churches that interest you. Just remember that on the surface some may appear different that they truly are. CFCMI is a great example. UBF is another. There must be thousands like that!

God Bless You!

[bramble]

Earnest Seeker:

Check this out: www.pcg.org (http://www.pcg.org) To their credit, they are Trinitarians. Their doctrine may be more sound.

I know that Onenss Pentecostals and splinters--"Apostolic" Churches. are rather cultic.

Move slowly--would be my advice. I was in one cult once. They have a way of sneaking up on a person. After a few months one can feel a bit confused.

God Bless.

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble....went to another bible study...they have a website...."Rose of Sharon Church" in Mesa, AZ or Tempe, AZ should bring it up on a google search.

There were eight people there tonight....very sweet...edifying.....
The pastor said they were really kinda like nondenominational.....

No red flags yet....just people coming together to sing and pray and hear David speak about peace, etc.

I got to minister to a patient with cancer today...it was beautiful.....she cried and I held her hand.

God is giving me favor in placing me in this job. There is a lot of light and a lot of christians there.

Praise God.....and last night I had a sweet dream about Haviylah Taylor (the senior leader's wife at Rose Creek Village.....she was hugging me and loving me.....
maybe God was giving me a glimpse of heaven and how the children of God will love one another in heaven. No division, no confusion, no demons to fight, no strife.

This life is so small compared to heaven.

I may need to end this thread and privately email you after tonight....I don't have much more to say about Rose Creek. I feel the people of God rising up around me spiritually....I do not feel like a friendless, lonely person today.....
I can make new friends....I can accept what happened at Rose Creek and move on. I can be grateful for what I learned and still love and pray for the people there. I can hurt and cry sometimes but it does not have to cripple me.

I have a life. God has given me plenty to do....I can have friends.....

My son is so loving to me tonight....he wants to cuddle.....

I will send you a private message and probably will conclude this journaling on Rose Creek Village for now. They are in the heart of God and I will give them to Him to judge and correct and to guide. I am not their judge. They are not my ultimate judge.
Noah and Chashaq are not my shepherds.

I'm happy for my freedom and for the truth that God has helped me to have.

Praise God for his might works.

love and peace to you Bramble.......

Signing off this thread,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

What is nondenominatinal? What is ecumenical? Is there a difference? Would you ever have any interest in a Lutheran Bible study? Just wondering!

I saw their website. It seems that they expect new members to be rebaptised at some point. For now you are a guest. They expect to get tithes. I wonder if they keep tabs on everyones' income. Just go slow.

I'm glad things are going well for you in your new life, new apartment etc. I'll write more when I get some time.


God Bless,
Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Thanks Bramble.....thanks for taking the time to show your love ....
thanks for the emails.......

God is with me, healing me, guiding me, teaching me....

I have a wonderful husband......

I will learn to develop healthy relationships....I am doing well at work and am very popular to my amazement......people just like me.....I'm not sure I could have even seen this a year ago....that people like me....I think I was strangely blinded to that, feeling like an outcast since childhood.
I don't feel like an outcast anymore.....I feel like I am right up there .....I was a sinner deserving of hell but God through his grace has given me his salvation and I in turn am living righteously as I know how.....I can forgive people like Rose Creek Village for not loving me and ask God to help them.

I can forgive anyone who has hurt me or my mother or whatever in my life.
I can forgive my adopted dad and my siblings for not loving me. I can forgive my alcoholic mother for the destruction her life wrought. I can forgive my mother for not being a mother and teaching me more.
I can be thankful for what I have and ask God to keep building His kingdom in me so I look less and less to the physical things of this world for satisfaction.

Praise God......
Blessings to you Bramble....your emails have helped me.....

We are almost back to where we were financially before we left for Rose Creek so I guess the whole thing has been a big educational experience....

God is alive and real.....
See ya in heaven some day....
Love,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

Thanks Bramble.....thanks for taking the time to show your love ....
thanks for the emails.......

God is with me, healing me, guiding me, teaching me....

I have a wonderful husband......

I will learn to develop healthy relationships....I am doing well at work and am very popular to my amazement......people just like me.....I'm not sure I could have even seen this a year ago....that people like me....I think I was strangely blinded to that, feeling like an outcast since childhood.
I don't feel like an outcast anymore.....I feel like I am right up there .....I was a sinner deserving of hell but God through his grace has given me his salvation and I in turn am living righteously as I know how.....I can forgive people like Rose Creek Village for not loving me and ask God to help them.

I can forgive anyone who has hurt me or my mother or whatever in my life.
I can forgive my adopted dad and my siblings for not loving me. I can forgive my alcoholic mother for the destruction her life wrought. I can forgive my mother for not being a mother and teaching me more.
I can be thankful for what I have and ask God to keep building His kingdom in me so I look less and less to the physical things of this world for satisfaction.

Praise God......
Blessings to you Bramble....your emails have helped me.....

We are almost back to where we were financially before we left for Rose Creek so I guess the whole thing has been a big educational experience....

God is alive and real.....
See ya in heaven some day....
Love,
Earnestseeker

We keep you all in our prayers.

[earnestseeker]

Dear Bramble and whoever else is interested.....

I have now given up on my spiritual search. I am going to work hard and take care of my family and I am going to listen to rock music or whatever music makes me feel good. I am going to have an "open marriage"....I am enjoying emailing two or three guys online right now and if I want to I will have relations with one or two of them.
I am going to work hard and play hard and enjoy life. I am going to make money and save money and protect my money.
I wanted to support Pastor Daniel in India.....but as Rose Creek village refused to help my mother (she lives a few miles from the village) get to the doctor during a time of emergency....I am going to learn from this and save my money to support my mother since obviously christians such as the Rose creek village variety will not even give her a ride to the doctor when she is in SEVERE pain and I basicly sent out a mass email to the whole village BEGGING someone to help her.

Rose Creek Village and other christian organizations have proven to me that Christian brotherly love is not REAL....illicit sexual relationships may get me to HELL but at least I will have what is a more genuine relationship than what I have experienced in "The Church". And I will have fun and laugh and not get all caught up in condemning others and a million stupid rules.

I believe God is real and I don't know what he is going to do to me....He saw that I really really tried to the point of risking my family's financial health and living in a shelter in an inner city environment with my five year old. He saw that my mother has suffered as a result of my search for the church and for God.

So he sees what has happened and how people have treated us. So anyway....I am going to live my life and all these holy christian people can just keep on with their self-righteous perception of their holy life.
I think I find more love and understanding and respect among the HEATHENS.

And I cannot do this stupid one meeting a week on Sunday thing. How boring ! How superficial!

Thanks for teaching me what's REAL Rose Creek Village!! Hope all you leaders enjoy your village fest!! Keep complimenting yourself and your leaders Noah!! Bye bye spiritual parents and brothers and sisters and friends! I will work hard on forgetting you all on the dance floor tonight!! Thanks for all your love and support and understanding!!! Don't know how I could live without all your judgementalism, condemnation, self-righteousness and punishment!!!

Goodbye Joseph Sanders!! I hope you don't get sleepy and drop your fork and then have your mother take away your breakfast when you are already skinny!! Hope you turn out alright Joseph! Hope you get to have some fun! I would send you something for Christmas but i"m sure the adults at the village would not allow it to be a fun thing.

So much for Rose Creek Village Christianity!!! I've seen the REAL DEAL....I've taken down my webpage....but BE CAREFUL FOLKS! Better know for sure what you are getting into.....you won't really know what you are into until you actually live there!!!

Gotta go! Got some sweet men waiting for my attention and some fun dancing to do tonight! Got some swimming to do with my kids and some good money to make as a DARN Good nurse!! NO Chashaq I do not and Have NEVER taken my patient's pain medications! I'm a damn good nurse!

Sorry if that surprises you Chashaq...great leader of Rose Creek Village....great Almighty Chashaq, ruler of Rose Creek Village....condemner, judge, punisher....
There are not many nurses that take their patient's medications!!! Too much TV Buddy!!

Bye Bye!!!

[fatherofaking]

Please come back sometime Earnestseeker.
Your user name tells me that you will indeed come back someday.
Enjoy your new feeling of freedom.
I know the feeling well, i was a member of the Twelve Tribes for a time.

When that feeling begins to fade (and it will) please come back.

[bramble]

Dear Bramble and whoever else is interested.....

I have now given up on my spiritual search. I am going to work hard and take care of my family and I am going to listen to rock music or whatever music makes me feel good. I am going to have an "open marriage"....I am enjoying emailing two or three guys online right now and if I want to I will have relations with one or two of them.
I am going to work hard and play hard and enjoy life. I am going to make money and save money and protect my money.
I wanted to support Pastor Daniel in India.....but as Rose Creek village refused to help my mother (she lives a few miles from the village) get to the doctor during a time of emergency....I am going to learn from this and save my money to support my mother since obviously christians such as the Rose creek village variety will not even give her a ride to the doctor when she is in SEVERE pain and I basicly sent out a mass email to the whole village BEGGING someone to help her.

Rose Creek Village and other christian organizations have proven to me that Christian brotherly love is not REAL....illicit sexual relationships may get me to HELL but at least I will have what is a more genuine relationship than what I have experienced in "The Church". And I will have fun and laugh and not get all caught up in condemning others and a million stupid rules.

I believe God is real and I don't know what he is going to do to me....He saw that I really really tried to the point of risking my family's financial health and living in a shelter in an inner city environment with my five year old. He saw that my mother has suffered as a result of my search for the church and for God.

So he sees what has happened and how people have treated us. So anyway....I am going to live my life and all these holy christian people can just keep on with their self-righteous perception of their holy life.
I think I find more love and understanding and respect among the HEATHENS.

And I cannot do this stupid one meeting a week on Sunday thing. How boring ! How superficial!

Thanks for teaching me what's REAL Rose Creek Village!! Hope all you leaders enjoy your village fest!! Keep complimenting yourself and your leaders Noah!! Bye bye spiritual parents and brothers and sisters and friends! I will work hard on forgetting you all on the dance floor tonight!! Thanks for all your love and support and understanding!!! Don't know how I could live without all your judgementalism, condemnation, self-righteousness and punishment!!!

Goodbye Joseph Sanders!! I hope you don't get sleepy and drop your fork and then have your mother take away your breakfast when you are already skinny!! Hope you turn out alright Joseph! Hope you get to have some fun! I would send you something for Christmas but i"m sure the adults at the village would not allow it to be a fun thing.

So much for Rose Creek Village Christianity!!! I've seen the REAL DEAL....I've taken down my webpage....but BE CAREFUL FOLKS! Better know for sure what you are getting into.....you won't really know what you are into until you actually live there!!!

Gotta go! Got some sweet men waiting for my attention and some fun dancing to do tonight! Got some swimming to do with my kids and some good money to make as a DARN Good nurse!! NO Chashaq I do not and Have NEVER taken my patient's pain medications! I'm a damn good nurse!

Sorry if that surprises you Chashaq...great leader of Rose Creek Village....great Almighty Chashaq, ruler of Rose Creek Village....condemner, judge, punisher....
There are not many nurses that take their patient's medications!!! Too much TV Buddy!!

Bye Bye!!!

I hope for the sake of your boys and husband that you do not bounce to this other extreme. I was happy to see you involved in the Lutheran Church and school. As a mother you must put your boys ahead of yourself sometimes. This is one of those times.

Life isn't all black or all white. Some of the things you listed are morally neutral (certain rock music, swimming, making money and saving it or spending it) Some of these things are morally bad (open marriage, picking up men)--give me a break!!--Do you want to lose your children?

I hope you get some therapy. Most states have some free health care for those who can't afford it. Look into some of these inpatient treatment centers for cult walkouts. Wellspring is one. There are others. You are early in your recovery. You might find a 12 step group or a support group.

Acting like these RCV types is not going to make the pain go away. Ask God to help you. Lean on Him.

Nothing makes me angrier than when people abuse others in the name of God, but there are real Christians out there. Give yourself some space. Get some therapy--DON'T EVEN WORRY ABOUT THE MONEY THING!

The economy is slow. We all are feeling pinched by it. Times will get better. Don't fall into despair.

I can't help feeling that you are trying to shock us.

I'll say a prayer for you tonight.

God Bless!

Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Oh Bramble...I love you...I am sorry...I did not mean to hurt you....you
obviously care a lot about me and have really been the only person to respond to me in depth when I write on this site.

I'm just batting the air, so to speak....I want the people at the village...the people who I loved and who broke my heart and rejected me and abandoned me....who I opened up to and let them touch my inner soul and spirit and then they coldly act like they could care less when I move just a few miles away.....

they just aggravated wounds already there......

and then what do I come back to ? I don't think that there is much life in these once a week church services...and I don't have the time to go to endless meetings....
our society is just work-oriented...people don't just hang out....it is difficult to make friends unless you sleep with someone....I'm afraid that is where our culture is.....
and it is an anesthetic....I have not met anyone yet but my husband has given me his OK on it...he says that he thinks these type of party friends will be kinder to me than the so-called christians that have left me so upset.....
I have been emailing a few different men....I try to be careful and selective....only once have I gotten into a scary situation....

I don't know what you are saying about my children......a lot of professional "with it" and even religious people are swingers.....I'm not deceived enough to think it will never affect them in some way....

but I can have a boyfriend while they are at school.....I currently have a job where I will be a travel nurse for nine months.....I will travel two hours away to Tucson on Friday....work Fri, Sat and sun nights....

I can easily see someone while I am doing my weekend shifts.....without the children being anywhere around. I know I am taking some physical risk and I don't know if God is going to give me AIDS or something but to date I have not gotten a disease.

I probably am a sex addict. Our society promotes it. Rock music makes me feel good and the sexual stuff does too. It also gives me a fast and easy way to get intimacy and friendship.

I am open to just friends if I can find some....I am still meeting regularly with the older woman from the lutheran church.

God will deal with me Bramble. He knows I believe in Him.....I am still working in my mind on figuring out what happened at Rose Creek Village....

as I look back on what happened and how the leaders dealt with me and my husband I can see how they very clearly fit the criteria for a cult.

I just opened up and loved them and they have some solid biblical doctrine mixed in. they are lovable....many of them saintly people....but I guess all cult members are just human beings.....
then I am angry that I have been a fool enough to go join a cult and not realize that I was in a cult until I was almost in a mental institution....

and then I look at this other religious stuff and I guess I am "throwing the baby out with the bath water"......
perhaps I will just email and make just friends with someone.

I doubt it. I will probably wind up having a physical relationship with one or two men. Maybe I can keep down to one man and maybe it will be longterm. I am telling them that I want friendship as well as any physical stuff.

I've slept with about fifty men in my life.....all of them have been safe except for one.
anyway....i am enjoying talking about this stuff but I may be offending you and I will stop now.
you are obviously a fine and insightful and caring woman and once again I apologize if I hurt you and I do appreciate your time and your writings....

I will keep your encouragement in mind to seek out counseling in spite of the money thing.

Like I said God is faithful to finish what he starts....I know He will not leave me and even if I go astray he will still deal with me in His own way.

Well....I don't know what to say further......

Hope you are doing ok.....
Earnestseeker



I hope for the sake of your boys and husband that you do not bounce to this other extreme. I was happy to see you involved in the Lutheran Church and school. As a mother you must put your boys ahead of yourself sometimes. This is one of those times.

Life isn't all black or all white. Some of the things you listed are morally neutral (certain rock music, swimming, making money and saving it or spending it) Some of these things are morally bad (open marriage, picking up men)--give me a break!!--Do you want to lose your children?

I hope you get some therapy. Most states have some free health care for those who can't afford it. Look into some of these inpatient treatment centers for cult walkouts. Wellspring is one. There are others. You are early in your recovery. You might find a 12 step group or a support group.

Acting like these RCV types is not going to make the pain go away. Ask God to help you. Lean on Him.

Nothing makes me angrier than when people abuse others in the name of God, but there are real Christians out there. Give yourself some space. Get some therapy--DON'T EVEN WORRY ABOUT THE MONEY THING!

The economy is slow. We all are feeling pinched by it. Times will get better. Don't fall into despair.

I can't help feeling that you are trying to shock us.

I'll say a prayer for you tonight.

God Bless!

Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble....I will try to not totally give up my spiritual fight....you have motivated me to try Sex Addicts Anonymous.....it is free and here and now so I should do what I can to help myself and my family...I also found some really good information on sex addiction....I'm no different than a drug addict. I have always prided myself in not using any drugs all my life but I am no better than any other drug addict. I even recently contemplated getting involved with a couple....both man and woman...I have never been gay and have been proud of that too....but I was tempted to do so not long ago just for the love and friendship. But I am not going to do that.I don't need to complicate the problems and deal with any extra torment from that.I can learn to make friends.....I can somehow get help for the pain and inadequacy and self-hatred I feel. Spiritually God will show me the way...I am tired of searchiing spiritually.....if anything God is showing me what jerks christians are.I just spoke to minister at Reba Place Fellowship....he said some things that made me feel low....I feel he does not care about me now that I am not joining their group. So they are no better than the village.....just caring about persons on the inside.I have emailed Noah and asked for help in developing friendships there, etc. and am open to visiting them next summer if Noah seems open to it. But he may not even email back. I don't know if they really care about me or not. I know I don't care enough about me and this makes it harder for me to care about others.I told him I am obviously very confused about the village.But I am finishing the school year right here....my family needs that. I will try to survive without any illicit relationships. I will try to develop real relationships starting with the SA Anonymous group.Well I am trying again! You had an influence on me....God Bless you....BethanyOh Bramble...I love you...I am sorry...I did not mean to hurt you....you
obviously care a lot about me and have really been the only person to respond to me in depth when I write on this site.

I'm just batting the air, so to speak....I want the people at the village...the people who I loved and who broke my heart and rejected me and abandoned me....who I opened up to and let them touch my inner soul and spirit and then they coldly act like they could care less when I move just a few miles away.....

they just aggravated wounds already there......

and then what do I come back to ? I don't think that there is much life in these once a week church services...and I don't have the time to go to endless meetings....
our society is just work-oriented...people don't just hang out....it is difficult to make friends unless you sleep with someone....I'm afraid that is where our culture is.....
and it is an anesthetic....I have not met anyone yet but my husband has given me his OK on it...he says that he thinks these type of party friends will be kinder to me than the so-called christians that have left me so upset.....
I have been emailing a few different men....I try to be careful and selective....only once have I gotten into a scary situation....

I don't know what you are saying about my children......a lot of professional "with it" and even religious people are swingers.....I'm not deceived enough to think it will never affect them in some way....

but I can have a boyfriend while they are at school.....I currently have a job where I will be a travel nurse for nine months.....I will travel two hours away to Tucson on Friday....work Fri, Sat and sun nights....

I can easily see someone while I am doing my weekend shifts.....without the children being anywhere around. I know I am taking some physical risk and I don't know if God is going to give me AIDS or something but to date I have not gotten a disease.

I probably am a sex addict. Our society promotes it. Rock music makes me feel good and the sexual stuff does too. It also gives me a fast and easy way to get intimacy and friendship.

I am open to just friends if I can find some....I am still meeting regularly with the older woman from the lutheran church.

God will deal with me Bramble. He knows I believe in Him.....I am still working in my mind on figuring out what happened at Rose Creek Village....

as I look back on what happened and how the leaders dealt with me and my husband I can see how they very clearly fit the criteria for a cult.

I just opened up and loved them and they have some solid biblical doctrine mixed in. they are lovable....many of them saintly people....but I guess all cult members are just human beings.....
then I am angry that I have been a fool enough to go join a cult and not realize that I was in a cult until I was almost in a mental institution....

and then I look at this other religious stuff and I guess I am "throwing the baby out with the bath water"......
perhaps I will just email and make just friends with someone.

I doubt it. I will probably wind up having a physical relationship with one or two men. Maybe I can keep down to one man and maybe it will be longterm. I am telling them that I want friendship as well as any physical stuff.

I've slept with about fifty men in my life.....all of them have been safe except for one.
anyway....i am enjoying talking about this stuff but I may be offending you and I will stop now.
you are obviously a fine and insightful and caring woman and once again I apologize if I hurt you and I do appreciate your time and your writings....

I will keep your encouragement in mind to seek out counseling in spite of the money thing.

Like I said God is faithful to finish what he starts....I know He will not leave me and even if I go astray he will still deal with me in His own way.

Well....I don't know what to say further......

Hope you are doing ok.....
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Hi fatherofaking! I'm back sweetheart!!!
I'm sorry I don't quite understand your post....you want me to come back to this message board....whoever you are....you sound very sweet....

I went to my first Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting tonight and it was a little funny...I was the only woman there....about ?ten guys there....
so I enjoyed the attention and it was all clean fun....laughter, warmth and yet talk of sobriety and God and things like that.
Got to look some other human beings in the eyeballs....
one fella spoke to me for quite a while...reminds me of Noah a little...

I feel encouraged....I can make friends, I can still seek God even though I am feeling angry and hurt spiritually.....I can seek counseling and healing and if I cannot do it for myself I can do it for my kids...
I want to get well so I can be here for them one hundred percent. I want to be a good Mom and see them turn out good before I die.

Do you mean go back to Rose Creek Village? I might...we might...I am emailing Noah and trying to communicate with him that way. He may not write me back which will just confirm to me what all that really is.

Or he may repent some and admit that things could be done much better or that they were too harsh ......

I'm afraid it is a very nice cult with some good in there and that Noah is in fact venerated and prideful. I'm afraid this is the truth. and RCV will probably moderate in time but only after they hurt some more people.

Religion is something that can be harmful if misused. spiritual authority is a slippery slope.

I hope I am wrong. I hope Noah emails me and I can develop real longlasting friendships there but I think the truth is I am an "outsider" now and they lack compassion, forgiveness and caring. The individuality is thrown out the window majorly for the sake of some big spiritual agenda or some big group project.
Ex: my mother was in horrible pain for a week...I begged in a mass email practically the whole village to please assist my disabled mom get to a doctor....no one cared to help her. Not at all. I know for a fact this is not Christian.
If I was asked to help someone I would feel happy to help. If they asked me to help one of their members, you bet I would do it. So this right here is a stumbling block for me....
I don't really believe people care, anyway. Everyone usually just wants whatever they want out of you.
That is probably a feeling I will need to address in my therapy....lack of trust across the board....not feeling that people really love me.

Then again I probably would not know love if it hit me between the eyes. I am definitely confused ....I do know my husband loves me. I have the best husband in the world.
Well good night to you....you seem to really have wanted me to "come back" whatever that means and whoever you are!
Drop me a line......
Earnestseeker



Please come back sometime Earnestseeker.
Your user name tells me that you will indeed come back someday.
Enjoy your new feeling of freedom.
I know the feeling well, i was a member of the Twelve Tribes for a time.

When that feeling begins to fade (and it will) please come back.

[earnestseeker]

Hi bramble...my sex addict's meeting went well...I have renewed hope that I can make healthy friendships and continue down some kind of spiritual path even if it is not the traditional Sunday go to meeting thing.

God loves ME and he loves YOU too.

Have a great night and thanks again for your words...they did have an impact on me....I will keep trying.

love and peace and true friendship to you,
Bethany...the Earnestseeker



Oh Bramble...I love you...I am sorry...I did not mean to hurt you....you
obviously care a lot about me and have really been the only person to respond to me in depth when I write on this site.

I'm just batting the air, so to speak....I want the people at the village...the people who I loved and who broke my heart and rejected me and abandoned me....who I opened up to and let them touch my inner soul and spirit and then they coldly act like they could care less when I move just a few miles away.....

they just aggravated wounds already there......

and then what do I come back to ? I don't think that there is much life in these once a week church services...and I don't have the time to go to endless meetings....
our society is just work-oriented...people don't just hang out....it is difficult to make friends unless you sleep with someone....I'm afraid that is where our culture is.....
and it is an anesthetic....I have not met anyone yet but my husband has given me his OK on it...he says that he thinks these type of party friends will be kinder to me than the so-called christians that have left me so upset.....
I have been emailing a few different men....I try to be careful and selective....only once have I gotten into a scary situation....

I don't know what you are saying about my children......a lot of professional "with it" and even religious people are swingers.....I'm not deceived enough to think it will never affect them in some way....

but I can have a boyfriend while they are at school.....I currently have a job where I will be a travel nurse for nine months.....I will travel two hours away to Tucson on Friday....work Fri, Sat and sun nights....

I can easily see someone while I am doing my weekend shifts.....without the children being anywhere around. I know I am taking some physical risk and I don't know if God is going to give me AIDS or something but to date I have not gotten a disease.

I probably am a sex addict. Our society promotes it. Rock music makes me feel good and the sexual stuff does too. It also gives me a fast and easy way to get intimacy and friendship.

I am open to just friends if I can find some....I am still meeting regularly with the older woman from the lutheran church.

God will deal with me Bramble. He knows I believe in Him.....I am still working in my mind on figuring out what happened at Rose Creek Village....

as I look back on what happened and how the leaders dealt with me and my husband I can see how they very clearly fit the criteria for a cult.

I just opened up and loved them and they have some solid biblical doctrine mixed in. they are lovable....many of them saintly people....but I guess all cult members are just human beings.....
then I am angry that I have been a fool enough to go join a cult and not realize that I was in a cult until I was almost in a mental institution....

and then I look at this other religious stuff and I guess I am "throwing the baby out with the bath water"......
perhaps I will just email and make just friends with someone.

I doubt it. I will probably wind up having a physical relationship with one or two men. Maybe I can keep down to one man and maybe it will be longterm. I am telling them that I want friendship as well as any physical stuff.

I've slept with about fifty men in my life.....all of them have been safe except for one.
anyway....i am enjoying talking about this stuff but I may be offending you and I will stop now.
you are obviously a fine and insightful and caring woman and once again I apologize if I hurt you and I do appreciate your time and your writings....

I will keep your encouragement in mind to seek out counseling in spite of the money thing.

Like I said God is faithful to finish what he starts....I know He will not leave me and even if I go astray he will still deal with me in His own way.

Well....I don't know what to say further......

Hope you are doing ok.....
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

I'm glad you are in SA. I know they can help you if you are open to God and follow their steps. Regarding 'religious swingers' I have read that Noah is one. So was the founder of CFCMI and others in that cult. So was Tony Alamo. He is now behind bars. Most cult are loose physically speaking.

I just meant don't do something that will get you in trouble with the authorities--if you know what I mean.

Curious--why didn't your mother move when you did? I hope you can go back to get her.

I know RCV won't help her. They won't help you nor will they let you return. You are an outcast. BE PROUD OF YOUR NEW STATUS! You don't need those losers. There may be health care people who will help you with her--nursing home types etc.

God Bless!

PS: Please read a book called Toxic Faith by Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton. It was a best seller in the '90's and is still in print. It is a real eye opener. :)

[earnestseeker]

Hi again Bramble....I don't think there is any sexual sins at Rose Creek
Village....like I said they definitely have some solid Biblical truths in some areas....Noah is very outgoing and likes to hug, etc...I can see him having that problem....if he did have it, I think he has outgrown it...he is 62 now.
They are outstanding in some areas...I think they seem pretty good with children and teens....I give them a failing grade on caring for their elderly...something they have not had to do much.

I still love them. I am still confused about them. I am afraid they are one of the better cults at this time due to the aggressive and over-controlling behavior I saw in some of their leaders....not all...but definitely Chashaq, Noah, Teshuva, Tabach.....these men definitely need to learn a little more about God's love...they are heavy handed and I suspect have a weakness when it comes to power and authority.

RCV may repent and moderate...they already have. I am open to a continuing relationship but I don't know if Noah is open to a relationship anymore...I am emailing him....I do not act over submissive and put him up on a pedastal...I talk straight and honest...he may find that not appealing since people do seem to venerate him......

So since I cannot be controlled and I am not overly submissive, etc. he may not care at all about continuing a relationship. I have told him I am confused about who he is and that I would like to learn who he is, etc.

I don't want to judge people...God will direct me and deal with me further...of this I feel confident.

You are not giving me much credit...worried that I will get in trouble with the police with my children?? what do you think I would do? I would be very discreet like a lot of people....you must be jumping to some conclusions, thinking whatever since I have revealed my trouble with men.

That's OK I have been coming across some pretty strict attitudes this past year....some crowds don't think much of it, other crowds really look down on this type problem....especially in a woman....

But I will get better....nothing much else in my life to object to. I actually have only been with my husband for at least a year and a half...just have done some lusting, fantasizing, emailing....so I'm at a good starting point for SA. I feel I can control this and be successful with some help. I am forty and that helps, too.
I probably started working on my own recovery program at the village.

Well I don't know what else to say......thanks for caring, you have influenced me. I have taken your words to heart, friend.

may God's peace and love be with you,
Bethany


I'm glad you are in SA. I know they can help you if you are open to God and follow their steps. Regarding 'religious swingers' I have read that Noah is one. So was the founder of CFCMI and others in that cult. So was Tony Alamo. He is now behind bars. Most cult are loose physically speaking.

I just meant don't do something that will get you in trouble with the authorities--if you know what I mean.

Curious--why didn't your mother move when you did? I hope you can go back to get her.

I know RCV won't help her. They won't help you nor will they let you return. You are an outcast. BE PROUD OF YOUR NEW STATUS! You don't need those losers. There may be health care people who will help you with her--nursing home types etc.

God Bless!

PS: Please read a book called Toxic Faith by Stephen Arterburn and Jack Felton. It was a best seller in the '90's and is still in print. It is a real eye opener. :)

[earnestseeker]

Hi again bramble...my mother followed us to Selmer because she was part of our family before we moved...she is about 57 or 58 and is disabled...has a lot of chronic pain...she just has like six hundred a month social security disability income to live on....so she was living with us....she wanted to move to Selmer to see what kind of group we were getting involved with as well.....
She found a good governmment-subsidized apartment complex for elderly and disabled....very nice, sweet , cute....but out in the middle of nowhere so sometimes transportation to the doctor, etc. can be difficult....especially at the last minute.
She loves her little apartment and her independence....she also is tired of moving around and does not trust me to stay in one place....which I can't blame her...I have moved around a lot....
She helped create this in me as we started moving around a lot when I was about eight years old, so I think it is a life that I have grown to be comfortable with......
As a parent I am addressing this issue seriously. I intended our move to Rose Creek Village to be our last move for a long, long time....maybe forever.....but you know that did not work out.

I have learned it is best to be independent and not depend on others. I have learned it is best to just depend on yourself....

Well I am trying to move mom here...she is flying here in three days for a visit....she would have more financial backing here.....she is also awaiting the settlement of a lawsuit against the young man that hit her with the back of his trailer over a year ago....almost killing her.

Peace Out,
Bethany the Earnestseeker/Outcast/Confused One






Hi again Bramble....I don't think there is any sexual sins at Rose Creek
Village....like I said they definitely have some solid Biblical truths in some areas....Noah is very outgoing and likes to hug, etc...I can see him having that problem....if he did have it, I think he has outgrown it...he is 62 now.
They are outstanding in some areas...I think they seem pretty good with children and teens....I give them a failing grade on caring for their elderly...something they have not had to do much.

I still love them. I am still confused about them. I am afraid they are one of the better cults at this time due to the aggressive and over-controlling behavior I saw in some of their leaders....not all...but definitely Chashaq, Noah, Teshuva, Tabach.....these men definitely need to learn a little more about God's love...they are heavy handed and I suspect have a weakness when it comes to power and authority.

RCV may repent and moderate...they already have. I am open to a continuing relationship but I don't know if Noah is open to a relationship anymore...I am emailing him....I do not act over submissive and put him up on a pedastal...I talk straight and honest...he may find that not appealing since people do seem to venerate him......

So since I cannot be controlled and I am not overly submissive, etc. he may not care at all about continuing a relationship. I have told him I am confused about who he is and that I would like to learn who he is, etc.

I don't want to judge people...God will direct me and deal with me further...of this I feel confident.

You are not giving me much credit...worried that I will get in trouble with the police with my children?? what do you think I would do? I would be very discreet like a lot of people....you must be jumping to some conclusions, thinking whatever since I have revealed my trouble with men.

That's OK I have been coming across some pretty strict attitudes this past year....some crowds don't think much of it, other crowds really look down on this type problem....especially in a woman....

But I will get better....nothing much else in my life to object to. I actually have only been with my husband for at least a year and a half...just have done some lusting, fantasizing, emailing....so I'm at a good starting point for SA. I feel I can control this and be successful with some help. I am forty and that helps, too.
I probably started working on my own recovery program at the village.

Well I don't know what else to say......thanks for caring, you have influenced me. I have taken your words to heart, friend.

may God's peace and love be with you,
Bethany

[earnestseeker]

I know it is hard leaving these people behind after so long. I know God will bring you even nicer friends. Remember friendship takes time. I remember as a child or a teen friendship was almost instantaneous at times. Now that we are older frendships can and do take years to grow.

Be patient. God is already working in your life.


What I want to know about Rose Creek Village is:

What do they believe about the Godhead? Who is God? Their main person who will delve into theological debate, etc. is Shammah....other than that there is a lot of vagueness on the specifics of what they believe. I know that Noah once expressed aggravation at all of the religious people who had asked him if he had a statement of faith and he exclaimed in a "new people's meeting" : "I'll give them a statement of faith that makes their
EYES BLEED!!" I always hated it when he made statements like this ...it did not fit with my perception of what a man of God should say.

Anyway....Shammah has written that the Trinity is a concept that is hard to understand....so I am not really sure what is concretely believed by the majority about the Trinity. I tend to think they do believe in the Trinity because all three members of the Godhead: God the Father; Jesus ...called Yashua, and the Holy Spirit are recognized as being COMPLETELY DEVINE.


Is Jesus totally human? totally divine? both human and divine in equal proportions?
TOTALLY DIVINE
Do they have any regular prayer services?
Yes...they say they have gone through periods of time in which they did not study the Bible or pray much ....when I was there...nine months...they were studying the Bible...Noah would sometimes teach on Wednesday nights....and there was a weekly prayer meeting that the ladies' went to....and there was Bible study and prayer with the children almost every day and then the Sunday gatherings.
How are their ministers trained?
No...they did not go to seminary....informal....Noah said he studied the Bible full time for two years on his own. Watchman Nee is a favorite...as well as Amy Carmicheal...?is this the correct name...not sure if I have this last name right...I am tired...

I hope this isn't too overwhelming! Just give it you best shot.

Anyway I went to my second Sex Addicts meeting and it was really interesting....I am learning about things like objectification, ...there are a wide range of sex addicts and they all have different behaviors. Some persons in these groups do admit to and discuss their feelings for teenagers, etc.
I feel lucky...I have not felt compelled to seek out persons younger than me....quite the opposite....I tend to be attracted to older, father figures. So thank God I do not have the problem with youths. None of my behaviors have been toward minors....thank God.
Accountability seems to be important and this is what I did to myself...painfully....at the village....I told Haviylah...Noah's wife...that I was having fantasies about Noah....after I had a heated discussion with him I kinda "fell in love" with him after that and I had a very hard time with obsessing and having fantasies about him....I confessed this to Haviylah...

This kind of thing is very common with sex addicts I am learning....I am also learning that ....like me....a lot of these persons feel emotionally immature and have difficulty developing friendships.....
We need something emotionally and we try to meet that need sexually....
like I might feel lonely and have a great desire for intimacy and I might want to chat on the internet or have an encounter.....

So I think I feel relieved to be able to talk and relate to some others that have had the same difficulty and even worse problems then myself....and there is healing in the fact that we accept one another and love one another. We hug in there and pray at the end. It is announced in the very beginning that these meetings are not a place to find sex partners...

so I think they would be very upset if a member acted out with another member.
So this is good...this gives me immediate intimacy and a place to talk and be close with other men .....so far in these meetings I'm the only woman...which is not uncommon....more men than women have these issues I guess or go to these meetings.....
there are women, though, and I will eventually find a meeting with more women....
but it is great to get attention from and have intimacy with these men and not have to pay the sexual price or deal with that pressure.

I did feel some emotional pain surface while we were talking in our group....and then I felt it go away.....so I do need to unearth these things buried in my soul and with God's help reach some healing.

Anyway....I am learning a lot and the love and understanding that I feel in these meetings is helpful. I am being stretched spiritually to listen to those that have done something with a child...I am being stretched to love them.
We talked about how the sex addiction is progressive just like alcoholism...you start at various ages but as time goes by you need to do different things to keep the same "high", same emotional excitement, etc....so people eventually do more and more behaviors trying to keep that high.
Like myself....I actually recently considered getting involved with a couple...this is something I've never been open to. I have turned away from that idea and I am not going to do that....but you get the idea of how the addiction progresses.....
I am relieved to get help....
One man said that people often have stopped growing emotionally in some areas.....he said he was attracted to teens and that he felt he was still a teenager emotionally in some ways....
This is what I felt about myself at the village....that I was still a child in some ways such as socially.....the village really opened me up and exposed some deeper issues that I have been able to repress or just ignore or whatever with my busyness, my work, etc.
Anyway I am glad to bring things to light, get help, healing and to mature.
Thanks for being my friend.
I bet I wind up with so many friends that I have not the time to keep up with them all....
peace and love to you Bramble,
Bethany the Earnestseeker, Counselee

[bramble]

I don't know where to begin. Let's just say that cults never change. I believe that they choose not to. The leaders themselves are so dysfunctional and have a vested interest in exploiting their flock. This is because is is all about them, never about Jesus. Always pray for RCV, never underestimate them, never trust them. I hope you read some of the things I have recommended to you over this past summer.

I'm sorry if you think I am misjudging you. I can only go by what you tell me. God doesn't want us even fantasizing about those we aren't married to. Jesus says that if a man looks lustfully at a woman then he has had relations with her in his heart. I believe that 'look but don't touch' can be a sin. What don't you like about your husband? Are you guys having problems? If you two are feeling bored try getting a sitter and going on a date--even if it is just errand running. Dinner or coffee out is even better. It doesn't have to be fancy.

I just don't want to see you doing something you will later regret. Stick with the 12 step group. I'm glad they are helping. They do great things.

Regarding Noah and RCV, this theme of "Physical Church" is rather recurring. The old FACTnet board mentions it, even. You can still access it from this board. I suppose his wife is either accepting of this or just puts up with it. Maybe you just were spared. It takes years to be really embedded in a cult.

I hope you and your mother will be living in the same city soon!

[earnestseeker]

Thanks for your concern Bramble......
I hate to draw conclusions about Rose Creek Village that I don't have facts to back up. I was at the village for nine months....a longtime member did something inappropriate toward a child...and it was a huge deal...he was taken immediately to the Sheriff in the middle of the night.
I know RCV has helped me sexually to see the wrongness of my sin. Noah speaks very wisely about these issues and they seem to feel strongly about the importance of keeping God's laws concerning sex.
I think if Noah had this problem he could have easily arranged to see me in private if he wanted....I was in a local cheap motel for a week. He could have easily come there. I am forty and not as attractive as I used to be but I think since I am twenty two years younger than he that he would have been tempted if he had that problem.

Like I said before, I don't know if he had that problem when he was younger....he is an athletic type man and very friendly and emotional...likes to hug, etc...admits to a drug addiction when he was younger....so I can easily fathom him having a problem in the past. There are other men there....they seem Godly....perhaps if he did slip in this area they spoke with him.
Anyway..I do strive to be fair and factual. There do seem to be some wonderful christians there at RCV. I am confused about Noah....perhaps he is a controlling arrogant, prideful and rather dangerous leader.....then again....perhaps he is not so bad, just needs to slow down from his busyness and repent a little and try to find less harsh ways to deal with people....
I don't know. I will continue a friendship with him if he is interested but I don't know that he is. I have emailed him lately.....some of it angry with forthright questions....some of it saying I need help....

your comments about my husband...well that just shows me that you do not have a true understanding about sexual addiction.....it is really more so about emotional/mental issues than even sexual ones....
I don't even know if I really truly like sex anymore....I don't even know if I know who I am...I learned very young to live isolated from others...I had no choice...I have never developed longlasting friendships besides my mother and my husband...all other relationships have been broken or distant. You can call it "Intimacy Disorder" if you like...that sounds less harsh than "Sex Addiction"...perhaps that makes more sense.
Most of us have things that happen to us as children...somehow we equate sex with love....we don't know how to ask for or how to get our emotional needs met...we sexualize our needs....does that make sense?
Well I feel like a forty year old adolescent still....I really don't know who I am....I have to find out who the real me is....in Christ I guess I should say....I don't even know right now what my real personality is....I seem to have two or three!!
I have learned to suppress emotions, not be in tune with them, etc.
I seem to sabotage relationships sometimes.
So even though to people such as those at the village I may look self-centered, I think I need to be self centered for a season as I learn to be in touch with my feelings, seek inner healing and solidify into a more consistent ONE personality.

Well I am doing well ...hope you are...I have a wonderful husband and I do love him...we are learning how to be connected more on an emotional level....

Well Peace Out...
Bethany the Teenager

[earnestseeker]

Me again Bramble....
I went to my third Sex Addicts meeting last night......I must share with you that I am shocked at the emotions of shame, guilt, etc. that these jocks have after a sexual encounter. I really did not know that men had these many emotions....
I guess I might view a lot of men as being big macho animals when perhaps they have more feelings about things such as sex, etc. than I had realized.
I might, too, have to do with rather or not they are christians....
These guys sometimes spit out the occasional F word and then go on to talk about shame and guilt and various other emotions...
I am getting real education here....
There was a very young teen there....straight out of high school....looked very babyish...probably very emotionally immature....my heart went out to him....
I'm afraid our society is turning out more and more sex addicts....
our society seems to have grown more and more isolated and institutionalized....I'm afraid so many kids are being raised by adults that are not "tuning in" to them emotionally.....and the public schools seem more and more geared toward external measures....grades....
my five year old is being pressured to master first grade level curriculum...
I told his teacher a cute comment he made and how much he liked her and she just had to depersonalize it, saying "Kindergarteners are that way".

The internet is a big avenue for porn and illicit emailing and relationships....
right now i am using mine in a good way...
i know the internet is my social outlet besides SA but I hope to move more toward having real friends....looking into real eyeballs....thus one of my reasons for going to SA ...not that it is so great or has all the answers....but you are looking into real eyeballs and having a real conversation about feelings, life concepts, God, etc.

The challenge at Rose Creek Village is to not be so impersonal ...to preserve friendship and intimacy with one another as they grow bigger and bigger....perhaps you are right....perhaps they do not care about loving the individual....I don't know...they do have a lot of good there.....
perhaps you could visit and take a closer look....

I just don't see a lot of community in our society as I experience it so I have to support others to a certain degree when it comes to being together. And I do think it would be great if the Body of Christ were a real entity although I have all but given up on this.....
if I have learned anything it is that christians across the board are mean....
I don't have any desire to be around super religious persons....especially right now.

well...I wonder if this will transmit....I had to retype it....it got lost in transmission the first time.....
love and peace to you Bramble....
Bethany the Teenager

[earnestseeker]

Hi again Bramble and the rest of cyberspace.....it is pitiful that I post things for the whole world to read to combat loneliness but I guess it is fairly harmless on the list of destructive behaviors....
I sure have had a lot of emotions today....loneliness, fear, anger, depression, feelings of rejection....feelings of love....sometimes it is a great gift to have depth of emotion and sometimes it is not an easy personality to have.
God help me through the next couple of months with this new job. I almost wish they would call me and say they decided not to hire me but I know that probably will not happen.
This morning I went to the place of an SA meeting and this guy said it was for men only.....I had been told there was a meeting this morning....they must not have realized it was a "men only" meeting. Most of them are mixed. Me being the only woman and a couple of comments and this exclusive meeting are kinda wearing on me...I am hoping to find a meeting with another woman in it soon.
I think my luck of this will increase when I go to Tucson Meetings....where my new job is a couple of hours away.
One thing that kinda scares me as I go on this journey for inner healing and seek to become connected with my emotional self....I am becoming aware that I not only have anger issues....at times I feel intense hatred.
I felt hate some at the village, too. You think you just have a couple of sins or problems then you see how dreadfully nonChristlike you are.....it can lead a person to feel despairing.....
I am really starting to desire a counselor....a good christian one....even though it might cost fifty dollars an hour.....
I love you Bramble....you have become a very dear friend to me and thanks for giving me someone to talk with and vent with.
I think I will grow a lot emotiionally and spiritually this year.
God loves me...I feel unable to pray to Him right now but I know He is still there....and I am feeling hurt and angry but I am still open to Him...I know He will speak to me in creative ways....outside of church walls.....outside of religious fanatacism......outside of my own insanity and neediness.....
It is a suffering world, full of pain.....
This world is not our final destination, Bramble. We are spirit beings and there is a spirit world....I can't get too caught up in all this "spirit world" however because I have a lot of "physical" responsibilities to fullfill.
Well peace to you again....and deeper understanding......
Beth

[bramble]

A few thoughts...

I am no stranger to 12 Step Type groups, either. Just remember what happens in the meeting STAYS in the meeting. I don't think that you should be sharing particulars of them with me. You sound like you are trying to heal and grow!! Don't give up!

I do know that sexual addiction and depression, especially bi-polar can be linked. If this is you, get help. I'm just a pen pal, not a shrink.

Regarding RCV, I'm sure that it was not all bad. I think there is enough bad to stay away. Often there are those who end up returning. You seem to put this Noah guy on a pedestal. Maybe go back and read your old posts. He wasn't necessarily as cool, IYO; you are being nostalgic.

Get some books on Abusive Churches, Cults etc. See if you recognize anything familiar. Have you been to the local public library?

God Bless,

Bramble

[earnestseeker]

hi bramble...thanks again....I am a nurse...bound by laws of confidentiality....you can speak of persons and ideas as long as you remain vague and do not give particulars that would identify the persons in any way.
We do "case studies" all the time....discussing particular "cases" for learning, sharing information, etc. I think you are being all too typical hush hush on these topics whereas you are open on others...
Don't you think....given all the sexual problems our country has....that these issues need to be discussed and brought into the light?
Don't worry....people would have to be a real detective to figure out what STATE these meetings were in.....I know what details I have given....they might be able to figure that out if they study my writings.....other then that, they would not be able to get any closer to identifying any one person.

As for myself....I figure it is ME so I can talk about myself if I want....I think it is a form of either punishment....or for pursuit of righteousness....with a little bit of just plain loneliness and wanting to be "seen" by others mixed in. I figure that when we get to heaven all things will be revealed....so why try to hide anything now? There is nothing secret to God......in terms of pursuing holiness....what should we hide from our brothers and sisters?
I do feel some shame and embarassment....especially if, say, I went back to the village and had to look at people in the eyeballs there....I would probably feel naked like I did before.....
like I said....I might be punishing myself.....or just purely frustrated at how people don't seem to understand ME.....
I am wide open....sometimes bleeding, naked....
may God help me heal, put clothes on and then be "normal" ...whatever that is!! LOL!!!
Well I have psyched you out enough for one day!!
Modest Bramble.....have a great day!!!
Bye Bye
Bethany...the Earnestseeker, Open Book, Fool

I do have depression and have had it for a few years....I do need counseling....and yes I think it is linked to Intimacy Disorder just as it is often linked to substance abuse.

It can be difficult to get a lot of professional help when you are poor.....I do plan on paying for counseling before long....I start my new job Monday......

[earnestseeker]

hi again bramble....

I probably have some form of Borderline Personality Disorder.....this is what they said I had traits of when I was just a teenager.....as I read the description, it fits....I
will get some counseling and keep going to SA and Adult Children of Alcoholics meetings as well. I will seek help....

Thanks again for being my friend...I have lived with this stuff for a long, long time. I feel hopeful that I am close to overcoming the sexual acting out, impulsive stuff...in fact as of today I am overcoming it....as they say in the meetings....one day at a time....
no problems today.....doing ok.....resting.....
hope you can get some rest as well...
please don't worry about me....I am a survivor....
I will fare better than many others.....
I have a great husband that loves on me every day and I have two sons to live for...
love and peace, mercy and forgiveness,
Bethany the Human Being

[earnestseeker]

Yes...Bramble....I have processed and accepted into my heart that scripture which states if you look at another person with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery. This scripture was the basis for a lot of my torture while living at Rose Creek Village and why I chose to reveal my problems to Haviylah and others.
This is something addressed in Sex Addicts Anonymous.....a lot of us try to stay in the "green zone"/safe zone which is abstaining from fantasy, internet chat, etc.

I was told the other night that there are three zones: green, yellow and red.
Some things are "yellow zone" things for some people and they would not trigger much in the "non sex addict" person.
Some situations that a non addict would experience would be experienced totally differently by an addict.
I don't completely understand all this yet.....but, for example....when I was having a heated discussion with Noah on the porch....at one point he slammed his chair in front of mine ...I was not making good eye contact...I was playing with my shoe, with my head down, listening to his angry....or seeming angry talking.....
Anyway, when he slammed his chair down in front of mine and touched his shoes to my shoes and kinda like our knees together.....
Well I was reeling with pornographic pictures in my mind then .....I have learned other addicts have this ability to reproduce very graphic images in their mind as well....
overcome with emotions.....after that I had great difficulty with obsession and fantasy.
So later I shared this with his wife......and she laughed....stressing that we were just on the PORCH for God's sake...LOL.....yeah.....for the non addict just sitting on the porch with a little touching would be fine.......for me the intimate, emotionally charged conversation with that touching mixed in.....it was a "trigger" I think they call it.
Anyway...more psych stuff, huh? You would rather talk about something else? Do I need to start sending you money for therapy? Sorry if you feel I am putting you in a therapist spot.
That leads me to discuss another concept I have heard recently discussed in SA...it was said that sometimes people can make another person their "God"...giving that other person the authority of God so to speak ....in a desire for that other person to "fix" you or to meet your needs....
I may do this and others at the village may do this. Noah may be seen as a victim of sorts in that others have put him up on a pedestal in the midst of their neediness or desire for him to meet their needs and "fix" them.
I know I have been very attracted to persons who seem to have words from God for me, etc....then let down later at the impersonalization of it all.....
So I guess you might know of some scriptures that state we should not elevate ministers to highly? make them a God figure?
Then there is LEADERSHIP and spiritual authority.....spiritual authority....that seems to be a slippery slope....I imagine it is quite intoxicating to be the recipient of great spiritual authority and respect.....seems like it would be the nature of man to become puffed up, justifying your self-importance by emphasizing the great spiritual calling that God has given you.....
I have witnessed more than one "man of God" that rushes around like some top corporate executive at Exxon.....too busy to really interact with their "sheep".
And if you don't just fall to your knees in utter submission you are like a "goat" or something.
That is one very important fact about RCV....the leaders like expect you to just go in there and totally submit to them......kinda like meeting a guy on the first date and being expected to treat him as he was a husband or something.....way too fast....
At least other "christian communities" have some sort of "gradual membership"....where one might be able to gradually immerse oneself into a community....
perhaps this is a way of weeding out those who are not very submissive or needy in nature....the "all or nothing" concept.....
We don't want very many "strong" leader type persons with too many questions or ideas of their own..we only want the weaker, more dependent types because our leader positions are already filled.....just have openings for followers......
Only the leaders are allowed to have opinions, make decisions, have authority and special priveleges to travel and spend money, etc.
In fact at RCV...who knows who owns what? You just don't know and don't dare to ask. I'm sure the land belongs to someone or to a small group of persons.
There is a great disparity.....one recovering alcoholic single male there....he was a darn good worker.....he was rebuked or whatever for wanting to attend a local church....he wound up walking there on his own....several miles....then later asking how he could leave.....
he was drinking in the local cheap motel while I was there and I remember him saying when speaking of going back to the village after his "thirty days" was up....the leaders decided he needed to stay out for thirty days.....
he said he was going back to the village because he did not think he was capable of doing anything else.....
perfect....this is just the type person they like.....not too strong....does not feel like they can do anything else...needs someone else to run their life for them....
But as the leaders know firsthand it takes time and energy to run other people's lives for them.....
It is hard playing God....very hard.....poor leaders.....
So there is that great disparity between the little factory worker guy and the big leader like Noah who gets to hop in his RV at least once a week and burn a whole bunch of money in the gas tank just to go to Memphis an hour and a half away to visit another one of their houses.....
not to mention the three trips he took to india in the time we were there.....wow...thoses are really expensive.....
so you are right....it is a very "nice" cult.....wake up, me...huh? I just want love and friendship and I found some of that there for a while until they crucified me into almost the mental hospital.....

Boy...I'm for sure not at the top of the village guest list now, huh? Eeewwww...bad, bad woman....

So I need to just find a way to heal and develop healthy relationships and forgive these pitiful people at the village and move on. I need to pray for them.

Anyway, my brain is fried now....paralysis of the analysis.....
God help us love those we are with.....just the regular people.....in fact I know that God is most often in the lowly...the unappealing....the regular.....the poor....

SA meetings are held in a dark little room...nothing flashy or fancy or special at all....very plain, very nothing....but yet God is there......
there is a spirit of brokenness and humility there.....and though one might hear the occasional F word ..one is more likely to find God there then the most fancy cathedral.
F Religion!! The pharisees crucified Jesus!! They were the great religious leaders of the day!!

Peace Out....
BAD, BAD Bethany!!!

[bramble]

Maybe you ex-RCV need a private board for ex-memebers sort of like www.abusivechurches.org (http://www.abusivechurches.org). Could you put a blog on your board? Just a thought. You are more than welcome to post here, too.

The way you describe Mrs. Taylor--can't ever remember her first name--I think she was cool with this open marriage thing "physical church". I hear that that is how Noah is. Noah may be a sex addict. Remember you time there was very short. Since they have there own midwives it could be a way of covering their tracks in terms of paternity--just a thought.

If you read about Mrs. L. R. Davis (Hazel) you will find that she is a tormented soul. You can see it from her pictures. She may be in great denial. I imagine that Havilah is in denial, too.

[earnestseeker]

I seem to be "burning you out" on the subjects I am discussing.....
I lived there for nine months....quite a while....I am a very perceptive person....
I can't help but laugh about the midwife thing.....
I read one post from nabashalam in the old files on factnet saying Noah had relations or physical church....but never saw anything else....Nabashalam said that the other leaders admitted to this....but I did not see this when I was there....

Like I said they teach strict biblical principles on sex and take the subject and any abherrence very seriously.....
I really don't think Noah is into this anymore and I don't see any facts....

He probably used to have this problem...it is a very easy one to pick up in our society and the women at the village are nothing short of beautiful....he admits to drug addiction in his younger days so sex addiction usually goes along with this....but I did not see any evidence of this....in fact....quite the opposite....a lot of values related to purity....abstinence until marriage is taught.....you know, it is an attitude you can "feel".....
I did nothing but intensely study everything and everyone around me for nine months...I am very perceptive, street wise, whatever you want to call it....I am genuinely puzzled about Noah but I think he is just on a spiritual power trip....
like a lot of "super preachers"....looking at numbers and perhaps dollar bills...."BUSINESS" seems to occupy most of the thoughts there at the village...just like middle class America.....

I wish the village could be "true"....but my experiences and the facts that I know tell me they have grown cold, religious....don't care enough about each other....are not able to live what Noah preaches about loving one another and going the extra mile to be in unity, etc. They have some biblical truths and some wonderful christians...I think they just need to sit down and humbly examine where they are.....
Think Noah needs to maybe step down completely for a while....maybe him and Haviy take a long vacation from it all and get out of this "SUPERGODMAN...got this BIG CALLING to fulfill all around the WORLD trip"....I think his light would shine much brighter if he could just turn back into a "regular" human being and love those "little people" right there at his doorstep.
Would not it be great if some of the more softspoken, gentler, more loving leaders such as Nathaniel and Gideon could step up and really be the main leaders for a while?
I think I trust Nathaniel and Gideon.....they have a calmness about them....see stable emotionally....not a wrathful and hot tempered and as apt to abuse their authority as Noah, Chashaq, Teshuva.....I can't help but feel that Noah tends to crush or discourage their input.....
I would be great if these "softer, gentler" leaders could step up to the forefront....
Perhaps then people could see Christ in their life a lot more and cut out this extreme abusive element....
Aside from my own selfish needs and desires....just for the sake of the village and the wonderful people there I would love to see them come into something gentler, more loving....I really would.....even if I benefited in no way, my heart would be so glad to see them make some big spiritual breakthroughs....

They made me feel horribly messed up but they may be more messed up than myself.

Well this is God's project and concern....not mine. i cannot carry the weight of the world.
I have done my part by standing up and speaking out and this is all I can do. Many more persons need to stand up and speak their heart as well. It is not healthy for everyone to go around "hush, hush" in fear.

Have a good day Bramble....peace and love to you....sorry my posts are not more interesting....you are the only one who ever writes me so they must not be very interesting reading.....
Bethany the earnestseeker

Anyway....what do YOU want to discuss or ask? I get the impression I am not interesting you with this line of discussion???

I'm getting ready for my new job in Tucson....

[earnestseeker]

Hi again bramble....I just read "Eleven signs of Perverted Authority"
ELEVEN MARKS OF PERVERTED AUTHORITY


(1) The claim of direct authority from God, rather than testing things by the Word. Many today have set "personal" revelation and experience above the final authority of God's Word. When this occurs there is no longer any basis for asertaining the will of God, as one would not be able to discern truth from error because the standard is "personal" rather than the Word of God.

(2) The command is to "submit to me," rather than "I will serve you."
(3) The method of leadership is to "order" people around, rather than to appeal for them to do the right things.
(4) There is a dominating, "pushy" drive instead of a dependence on God to direct.
(5) There is a sense of control, rather than a sense of support.
(6) A gift is exploited so that others are made to feel dependent on it.
(7) There is an inflexibility - "don't question me" - "don't touch the Lord's anointed."
(8) There is unapproachability and intimidation - the "aura" around the leader keeps the followers in "awe."
(9) There emerges an organization built around a man and his peculiar emphases instead of around Christ and His Word.
(10) There will be cyclical challenges to the authority figure (which are immediately and forcefully purged). (11) There is more concern for maintaining the authoritarian structure than there is for caring about the people in it.

I'm afraid most of these do fit the village....it hurts me to give up totally on the village...I feel empty and almost hopeless when I admit that they are a "nice" cult...
but that empty feeling is typical of borderline personality disorder....so I must just accept this and believe that there are other ministries and counseling out there that will help me "find my way"....
Well I hope you have a good day,
Bethany the Earnestseeker

[bramble]

Really, I am just trying to figure out a few things going on in my own life. I think preoccupied is more like it. I am multi-tasking a bit too much! In the summer things are a bit more laid back. Yesterday was really busy for a Sunday.

I'm glad that you are trying to get help. I am glad if I can help a bit. I sometimes wish there were more from RCV that posted here. Guess what? If they show up you can also help each other.

A lot seems to be going on in CFC. They seem to be shrinking fast!!

More later...

God Bless!!

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble....great to hear from you again.....
strangely....not many that leave Rose Creek write things on the internet, etc....I researched this before I ever went there......maybe there is enough truth there to protect them....I don't know....... have worked for twenty-five years and I have never heard the likes
of what I heard in the very beginning of Carondelet St Joseph's
orientation.... A sister, a nun spoke a lot about how we were to love
persons...no matter what their status and she went on to speak about
Jesus....then they played a beautiful film with a very spiritual
song...
I was very touched and this increased my faith as I felt the hand of
God still in my life guiding me....growing me into what he wants me to
be inspite of my unwillingness to go to the traditional church.

Then the Sister went on to pray a prayer with us....kinda inaugurating
us into the ministry and asking for God's help....I have never seen
such a spiritual thing in a job.

Isn't this neat? It was great...I wish I could hear all that every day.

I still love Noah.....maybe he will stop playing superGodmanwhoissavingtheworld long
enough to be a human being and write me back as a human being.

SA is great...it has very quickly become a powerful force in my life....everything always starts out good and then fades with me though...or maybe I am speaking of my enthusiasm.
Sleepy....in Tucson.....in a hostel.....my mom flew in from Tennessee last night....
cute place and homey place this hostel.....good place for me to be and just 24 a night....free breakfast in the morning at 7pm....
Have a good night sweet friend.....love and peace to you...
Bethany

[bramble]

Hi Bramble....great to hear from you again.....
strangely....not many that leave Rose Creek write things on the internet, etc....I researched this before I ever went there......maybe there is enough truth there to protect them....I don't know....... have worked for twenty-five years and I have never heard the likes
of what I heard in the very beginning of Carondelet St Joseph's
orientation.... A sister, a nun spoke a lot about how we were to love
persons...no matter what their status and she went on to speak about
Jesus....then they played a beautiful film with a very spiritual
song...
I was very touched and this increased my faith as I felt the hand of
God still in my life guiding me....growing me into what he wants me to
be inspite of my unwillingness to go to the traditional church.

Then the Sister went on to pray a prayer with us....kinda inaugurating
us into the ministry and asking for God's help....I have never seen
such a spiritual thing in a job.

Isn't this neat? It was great...I wish I could hear all that every day.

Tell me more about these people. Is this a new Church? It sounds sort of Catholic, IMO. Sounds interesting. I'll google it. I happen to be Catholic. I don't often bring it up as it rarely has much to do with my reasons for posting here.


I still love Noah.....maybe he will stop playing superGodmanwhoissavingtheworld long
enough to be a human being and write me back as a human being. I know what it is to get hung up on someone. My goal this year is to look forward and not to neglect the present. IMO, Noah won't write. You don't need him.

SA is great...it has very quickly become a powerful force in my life....everything always starts out good and then fades with me though...or maybe I am speaking of my enthusiasm.
Sleepy....in Tucson.....in a hostel.....my mom flew in from Tennessee last night....
cute place and homey place this hostel.....good place for me to be and just 24 a night....free breakfast in the morning at 7pm....
Have a good night sweet friend.....love and peace to you...Bethany[/quote]

I hope she is planning to stay for good!! I'm glad the SA is working.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

Love,
Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Hi Bramble....sorry I didn't explain better....St Joseph's is a Carondelet hospital....it is my place of work. I feel very much in God's hands.....as I come into touch with my emotions i will share with you that I am hurting a lot still over being rejected by not only Noah but the village.
I guess i had a lot of hope that they had spiritual answers, faith in God, love, etc. I really opened up my heart and fell in love with so many of them. And they all just rejects us all at the same time......for what reason?
They make you feel so horrible.....and what is it that you did so bad?
As I receive love from others and don't give up....and the twelve-step program I feel
I am growing some roots into some solid truths in God;s word...not that life will be easy...I am hurting some right now....but I will develop new coping skills and I will learn to be better at giving and recieving love.
I have hope I will heal and become a stronger person with some help....all these experiences have taught me something.
I so glad God does not reject me and that He loves me....I feel secure that He is still with me no matter what.

Thanks for being my friend....I love the Catholics....I can't handle nor take seriously the rituals and chants, etc. but I highly respect Catholics for really putting their love in action. I have felt love and even financial help (food) the most from the Catholics in the last few months as we moved back to phoenix almost on the streets and now with a new job that has also given me some spiritual hope and encouragement as well as physical monies.
Well I love you....God loves you, me, the village...God somehow loves us all in the big mess that we are in.
I had a good day at work and I am feeling a little better now. I wrote some sweet and intimate letters to noah in attempts to see if he was interested in building a friendship.
I should not do that. I am just opening myself up to rejection and I have had too much of that already in my life....
Not healthy.
well....peace and love...I am tired and have a big day tommorow and am going to lie down now and be grateful for the people that do love me and for my new job where God is at least mentioned daily.

love and peace,
Bethany

[earnestseeker]

Well I am crying bramble and i think this is a good thing....it seems to help release the pain....i have felt a lot like i could not cry if I wanted to ...so I think it is good thing for me to feel my pain instead of burying it or acting out...acknowledge at least part of the reason for it being there, and then crying....
I think I feel better already. growing up i never wanted to cry....i never wanted to be weak and let someone hurt me....i was not going to be a weak woman....i was not going to be a victim like my mother....i was going to be tough.....
Well now as an adult i realize that perhaps it is more a sign of strength to cry like a baby and let the pain out instead of pushing it down or acting out.

Well....love and peace to you again.....thanks for mothering me!!! I"m just a big baby!!!
love and peace, forgiveness, kindness mercy and joy....
Bethany

[bramble]

Near as I can tell you are now working in a Catholic health care system. I find this interesting. Maybe God put there for a reason. What you said before about a sister praying with you seems encouraging.

Rituals and Chants to me are prayers. I come from a very ancient faith tradition, so do these rituals and chants. Catholicism grew out of Judaism as do the prayers, rituals etc. The Mass is very Jewish in structure, yet also Christian and very Scriptural.

I, myself, had to learn some of the fine points of the Catholic faith as an adult. The times in which I grew up a lot of traditional devotions were put on the back burner. I learned a lot of things about my faith in my 20's and 30's that I should have been taught in my youth. If you want to learn more go to www.ewtn.com or www.catholic.org. I don't want to overwhelm you with links.

You never said what kind of Church you were raised in. This might help me to better know you.

I was once told that tears are a sign of healing. I understand. I felt rejected last year because I couldn't understand how these cultie types join up then reject their old friends.

Maybe Noah is also brainwashed. These culties are isolationists. We should pray for them, but not expect much. They either stay or leave. The ones who stay almost never change.

God Bless!!

[earnestseeker]

thanks again bramble....yes i am working for Carondelet which is also part of the largest catholic hospital system in our country...Ascension.....the prayer i spoke of was a group prayer....said in the morning at the beginning of orientation.

healthcare is safer if nurses and others are supportive, loving....part of the same team.
so i am hoping that this will be one of the better work environments. i am always afraid of failure....i hope i do great and feel acceptance from my peers.....

i napped and of course feel better....i must learn to be in touch with my emotions and learn how to meet my needs socially, etc. i will discover who i am....i heard myself say tonight "i don't like emotions".."i don't like to feel....it hurts"

yes....being mean and aggressive which i'm sure i have been some in my posts...does not help the group in question. i do believe in the cult of christianity and that our society has become increasingly isolated, etc. i do believe that even negative social experiences are better than being isolated....
i sometimes tell myself that a bad parent is better than no parent at all ....when i am feeling inadequate as a mother which i often do.
i may seek counseling for myself and also my eight year old son. and my husband needs to grow socially and some emotionally as well...although i must say his coping and his emotional stability seems greater than mine.
i have grown in my admiration of him during this experience and have come to see how much he loves me. i want to not take his love for granted and return the love....it is cute....we are both giving one another our medications or vitamins in the morning.

at the village....i gave them a part of me and my influence on the village....perhaps both good and bad will be felt for a long time......likewise.....several persons there gave of themselves to me and this will stay with me and influence me ....perhaps in good and bad ways.....for a long time.
But on the positive side i have opened up spiritually, socially, emotionally.....and i did learn things about human beings at the village.....if they were truly rooted in god's love and not so controlling i think they have the capability of helping persons such as myself mature emotionally at a very fast rate....
much faster than the once a week outpatient therapy.

my emotional and social understanding and intelligence has been increased. i now feel like i am much more understanding of persons in general and as i go to twelve step programs i am fast growing in understanding of myself.

it is like my adopted dad....after the divorce after age eight he was not too much in my life....he was critical and not loving....but i have read that a child is better off with some kind of parent rather than none. i know noah reminds me a whole lot of my adopted dad and that this probably feeds into my emotions.....

i know i have healed some childhood memories.....you know those tapes that you replay vividly in your mind over and over.....i have been able to erase some of those...not all....i probably need to do some "recreating of memories" or "theophostic healing" i think they might call it.

i want to be good parent. i want to heal and become very healthy in all aspects of my life so i can be a more effective parent.....i know i need to connect with my children on an emotional level.....i do this some but i know i am hampered by my immaturity in some areas.....
but i will keep trying hard. my son is eight and has had some problems recently.
it is clear to me that he really needs to settle down now and be able to develop some friends, etc. i don't want to do to him what was done to me.

i must dare to look inside myself....dare to be human.....dare to learn to cope with my pain, feelings of inadequacy, fears, anger, hurts, resentments, etc. and to make room for stability and more positive emotions so i am freed from my past and have more emotional energy for the present.

on the negative....as i read about coercive mind control i can see rose creek village in this. i don't believe they really intend to hurt people.....they are probably one of the safest cults out there and may function for some as an affordable "rehab" program for those who are addicts.
But Noah is a person who has obviously had his share of hurts in his life....when he speaks of his parents....his father was very cold, critical, demanding.....and he spoke of having conflict with his mother because she did not understand why his friends were so important to him.
His first wife....that marriage did not work out.....and he had about five children....
he had substance abuse problems at one point.....
so he has had a lot of pain, emotional problems, etc.....he has found a way to create a society in which he is very loved.....where he can be the authority figure and he can get a lot of respect, approval and love.
he enjoys being the dominate person.....he interprets true manhood as having forceful and dominating traits....and he likes the type of women that are submissive.

some things seem christian at the village and are in fact christian when isolated apart from the whole picture......and then there are some things and behaviors that are obviously cult behavior....such as the practice of "cutting off" persons such as ourselves...i just left because my mental health was failing and i knew it and i knew i could not tolerate this life anymore. i left with great remorse and a broken heart and i communicated this.
then there was the intimidation of having to deal with several persons "exhorting" you over minor "offenses"...such as when you take a shower, etc.
so psychologically you feel the pressure and pain of risking rejection, criticism, etc. Noah was very aggressive and told me " you are not like the other women"....he also told me in an email after i left that Reba Fellowship said they felt that we were "too messed up for them to handle" or something to that affect....
i do feel rejected by a minister at Reba as well....he is obviously nothing short of a saint but he obviously disrespects us or does not wish too much involvement with us due to our financial problems and he also disrespects me for my sexual addiction problem.
anyway....people are just people....i am seeing that more and more....and i need to see this because i need to learn to not take things so personal and to not be such an angry person....this is an area where i need to mature from a teenager to an adult....
conflict to me is a major stress....a major event.

i really liked haviylah taylor noah's wife.....she showed love to me while i was there and counseled me some. she ultimately rejected me right along with the group but i still love her. she had substance abuse problems and problems with men and she had two very young daughters....she married noah and learned to be submissive to him...and now just busy's herself taking care of noah, her children and now her grandchildren. she also cares for the village....being a midwife....nurse....she does prenatal check ups......(i am crying} she stressed to me the importance of not committing adultery......
so her and some of these other women have served as powerful role models and i think of haviylah a lot.
she has quit emailing me altogether, aborting our friendship simply because i have left the village.
so i must somehow retain what i have learned from her and heal from her rejection.
she is just a messed up human being in some ways but i can see how she has tried to follow god's way and how she serves others. she seems much less aggressive and much less sharp tongued than noah.....but on the other hand, she can have a very sharp tongue.....
as a nurse she failed to see or emphathize with my emotional problems.....rather she took a rather simplistic, hard line.....which is the culture there.....every thing is made rather simplistic and simple serving of others is emphasized.....
anyway....like you said, i should be proud of my "outcast" status....like they say....what doesnt KILL you makes you stronger.....
well it is good to cry and i can see new supportive relationships opening up....i have put myself in a prison in the past, isolating myself....i think i can risk coming out now to play with others....

as a child i went to a pentacostal type church that wound up rejecting me as a demoniac after i faithfully went to their church for seven years....

i might find that i like catholicism....don't they have "christian catholics"?

well i might find that i can have community right there in the big city. i think community and friends have always been there.....i just did not know how to reach out and ask for it and i viewed socializing as a waste of time as i reached for professional goals....
well good night friend....i think i am feeling less empty inside.....i think i have found a really good support group in the SAA and adult child of alcoholics meetings. i will embrace this program and work on my recovery.
you should not neglect your recovery work....like they say you must not neglect your recovery work because your addiction, etc. does not take a break.

thanks again for your support and friendship.....
best of luck to you in your own personal struggles....
love and peace,
Bethany

[bramble]

You sure give me a lot to work with. I'll give it my best shot.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'christian Catholic'. IMO, Catholics who take their faith seriously are Christian. There are non-practicing Catholic, fallen away Catholics, cafeteria Catholics (think buffet restaraunt--they pick and choose what to believe) LOL.

As far as being rejected by the Taylors and others, this is the way of cults. On this board you will read similar stories. I encourage you to read the NTCC or CFCMI boards if you have a mind to. There are three guys on the CFC board who left and no longer talk with those in the inside.

As far as pentecostals go, I'm not bashing, but I have read other forums on other sites by those who see Pentecostalism as a cult. IMO, FACTnet doesn't have much worth reading on this subject. There are good forums elsewhere. I have read stories about those who have left pentecostalism or switched Pentecostal Churches getting disfellowshipped. Those who stay in the Church aren't allowed to associate with those who leave. What do you think?

CFCMI was started by minister who was kicked out of the UPCI for allegations of child molestation. Davis pretty much took the Pentecostal faith with him. His sons in law have reworked what CFCMI believes. They are in it for the money. Davis was too. BTW: one of the CFC pastor calls wives and children--'demonic distractions' because they draw attention away from him (the pastor).

Was your Church 'Oneness' (Sabellian)?

I'm sure your peers will like you. Remember somtimes friendships take time even years. Hang in there. You'll do great!!

Your job should have health insurance--right?

Love,

Bramble

[earnestseeker]

Oh Bramble you are so sweet.....yes, we just got health insurance for myself and my two sons.....I have the kind that really kicks in if you have expenses over $2500 in one year, so it is just about two hundred dollars a month for me and my two sons. Phil will have health insurance I think on Nov.1st.
I was crying last night, mourning the loss of my friendship with Haviylah and others that I grew attached to at the village and then today I met this nurse ....she is sixty years old..but looks GREAT....well we just really hit it off.....she took me to lunch and gave me a spiritual book...I think she is catholic.....in the last few months most of the people who are touching my life are Catholic....and another woman that I am meeting with regularly is a Lutheran.
I talked for two hours with my new friend...and after just two hours I felt like I had a best friend.....we plan on maybe meeting once a week. Isn't this neat? God is showing me that he is still with me and he is still honoring my search for Him and the sacrifices that I have made to find more of Him in the last year.....
And all this is happening outside of church walls....
I also had an awesome SAA meeting and then worked out with my husband at the YMCA....
So I had a wonderful day......I have been relatively happy today......
I still feel sad and frustrated over the village and wonder if I will ever visit, etc. but I know this will just take time.....
So Catholics believe in salvation? that is what I meant when I asked about the christian part....I was asking do catholics believe that jesus died for our sins, and we ask him to be our Lord and salvation by grace? or do catholics believe in salvation by works?
Well thanks for your love.....
I am not liking what I see in the pentacostal-like churches I have been too.....I don't know what I will do in the future.....but i imagine I will look for a low-key ministry with ministers or leaders who are low key and gentle...not authoritarian....and will look for involvement with a ministry that helps the poor.
or I may just get involved with a small home church type thing.....
I need intimacy....I need relationships with others....this is an important part of my self-prescribed recovery program. One of my major goals right now is to keep putting forth a certain amount of energy into connecting with others, developing relationships....somehow I think this is where "finding God" is for me.....
Just simply learning how to have friends....how to reach out and meet my needs for love and intimacy. This is my big assignment.
So far everything is going well.
How are you? How is your life?
God loves us all.......
love and peace...time to go nighty night......are you working out? it really makes one feel better....I feel hopeful with the YMCA around the corner that I am really going to get fit ....worked out hard tonight with my sweet hubby.....
I really felt a lot of emotions toward my husband tonight.....my emotions are becoming more clear to me.....
although i might cry or feel sad or feel pain, I also am able to feel more love, etc.
learning how to be human.....
fallible, imperfect, sometimes stupid human being. someone who needs others and knows how to give and receive love.....
well good night....you know me! I could write a book on here.....
As for Rose Creek....I hope they are all sleeping well.....hope the sun shines brightly on them tommorow and I hope they experience more love and peace in their little corner of the planet.
God loves them and you and me....
Peace Out,
Bethany the blessed earnestseeker

[bramble]

Catholics believe...

There is only One God. We are 'Trinitarian'

Jesus is One in Being with God the Father. Jesus is begotten, not made. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son. The Holy Trinity is Three Persons who can function collectively OR individually. Jesus is 100 percent human and 100 percent Divine. After His resurrection He had a glorified body. We shall too someday.(I know some Pentecostal type, Churches believe that Jesus lost His body after His resurrection.)

Regarding salvation: the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the focal point of Catholicism. Yes, He died for our sins. He rose from the dead. He ascended to Heaven. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Lutherans believe this too. Catholics and Lutherans differ on: books in the Bible, the Eucharist, salvation, a few other things. Some Christians in general may have some misconceptions about the Catholic Church.

Both Churches I know are safe--non cultic. I wonder what synod these Lutherans are. The liberal ones are moving in a direction away from traditional Lutheranism. I think the more conservative ones are more orthodox in their Christianity. Both these Churches focus on Jesus not on the minister. So if you are in an orthodox Church it shouldn't matter who the ministers are. You won't have to worry about control freaks posing as ministers calling all the attention to themselves instead of God.

As far as RCV let go and let God. They are in God's hands. There is nothing you can do except pray. Not too long ago you were very hurt and angry. In time you will come to accept things as they are. God is already giving you new friends--healthy ones at that. Focus on that.

I hope that you can get insurance that covers day to day things--strep, sick call visits, accidents...routine things like councilling etc. The high deductible ones are worse than no insurance. I've been there.

PS: What book did this nurse lady give you? I may have read it!

[earnestseeker]

Watch out folks.....Rose Creek village will screw you over royally and then dump you like trash and keep going and never look back. The whole thing is centered around the leaders and especially Noah....a very sharp tongued, power hungry, control freak who has swords and dragons on his wall.....
They will dump you out on the street not caring what happens to you.....then will cut you off all at once......like you have committed a horrible crime.....
You would be better off getting involved with heathens then with this group of spiritual PRICKS!!!
Not going to kiss your ASS Noah! Thanks for breaking my heart and teaching me what fakes are out there you religious BITCHES and PRICKS....NO! I won't let you take my time, my mind, my everything!!!
If you wanted to hurt me and treat me like trash you have succeeded!!! This Arkansas girl ain't that dumb!!!
Thanks for showing me the LOVE of God.....you are just loaded with it.
I HATE you all......
Have fun serving your men.....haviylah...go ahead and lead your daughters into having one baby after another.....with no break in between.....FOUR in a ROW....how sick....to breed a woman like an animal without any concern for resting her body in between...
Thanks for your FAKE love, Haviylah....you are just a religious BITCH. You are a BITCH as well Hashachar....
I HATE you......

[earnestseeker]

Now can I go to "Rage-olics" Anonymous.....but it felt so good!!
How did I ever get involved with a cult......straight up, folks....I've been raped before and maybe some other painful experiences and what I have gone through at Rose Creek Village seems to top it all.....
The love, then the meetings with TEN people...., then the GUILT and SHAME over relatively small things, then the REJECTION by all the members all at once.....
Yeah....I'll take a lot of other abuse, thank you.....
I never thought going to a "christian" group would do this to me.....It has been six months since I left and I am still struggling with a broken heart, feelings of rejection, anger, resentment.....UGGGHHH.....don't make my mistake!!
Be careful!! Not all that glitters is gold.....bottom line....people should not be telling you when to shower, exactly where to live, etc....relationships should be built on openness...trust and respect and love.......not on fear, guilt, intimidation and control.

Well Peace Out.....love and peace to everyone out there!!!
God loves us all.....even those RCV people!!!
Good night to alll!!!I've found that the twelve step program I am in is really helping me.....not that I am like perfect or anything but I am maintaining my sobriety.....
I'm learning so much about sex addiction.....it takes a while....just like other drug addicts to physically rewire your brain after you "come down" off that lifestyle....
so I think there is hope that my emotions will stabilize as I learn to live sober for longer and longer.....
until then....RAGE, ANGER and ROCK and ROLL and EXERCISE will be a part of me.....

Well anyway....hope someone out there can learn from this 'ol girls' mistakes....

Peace Out Again!!!
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

oh...i've been sinful...but it felt good!! the third personality that protects me...very prone to rage and curse words....makes me feel safer, more secure....less hurt....
I just am having a very hard time moving on after my nine months at Rose Creek Village....very hard time moving on. I had so much hope and love for this village, then wham....I started seeing what was really at the center of everything.

So many things look good and great at the village and they definitely teach and live a lot of biblical truths....you probably won't find a "nicer" cult out there. I think they are getting more controlling and meaner as they get bigger and as they get more money, although with this recession I would guess they are getting hit very hard.

They definitely want to control their members and if you disagree you will find the leaders will pounce very quickly with no patience for the careful thinker with questions. They stress serving and this is their answer for everything....and the women are very much kept in their "place" while at the gatherings Noah often sings the praises of his fellow "leaders" and says often "God works through MEN"....definitely a sexist bent.
I am so glad I found my twelve step group....I can see that God is still loving me and bringing people into my life.....I won't always FEEL good but I can walk a straight and narrow path, abstaining from addictive or destructive behavior. I can go to a twelve step meeting if I am feeling weak or tempted and find support and wisdom.

I look forward to healing and to God continuing to show himself to me. Yes, it is very hard to let go of Rose Creek village....there is a lot of good there, a lot of good people there.....
Well I don't know what else to say.....thanks for giving me the opportunity to vent and think out loud....I have not had to suffer through this alone.....
God gave me bramble through this post and she has become a very faithful friend. I hope I have not burned her out.
I must admit this gets old. but I am slowly rebuilding a life and I am working on recovery, already experiencing more emotional clarity. I still feel a little empty but not as much as the other day. I spent a lot of time connecting with my family and I cleaned house Friday even though I was tired.....so these are big successes for me.
We have to love ourselves and take time to take care of ourselves and to become healthy so we can take care of others in our life.
At the village I was told I was selfish and self-centered for analyzing myself, etc. but in fact I have always served others my whole life and in fact it is a good thing that I am slowing down long enough to work on my emotional and mental health.
Sex Addicts Anonymous has reinforced that YES I do need to take time to connect with my emotions....become aware of what they are and learn how to cope with my emotions.....in our addictive lifestyles we do not mature and learn who we are and we are very good at disconnecting with our emotions.
So I am doing good. I have done a lot of things good.....even things that I felt criticized for at the village...I did a lot of good things there.
I wish Rose Creek Village did not have to be a cult. But I am a realist and I believe in calling the truth, the truth. I look at facts. I did go there and open my heart and tried to believe the best but in the end the truth prevailed and I came to see this organization for what it is.
But take heart.....I also am seeing that there is a lot of light in others all around us....no one group has a monopoly on the truth......AA, SAA and other twelve step programs are powerful spiritual programs that can help christians grow in the Lord and learn a new way of living and behaving and thinking. It can be an affordable option for the poor and a good place to practice real communication with another human being.
Well God is good.....God loves us all. God loves ME....God loves YOU reading this post and God loves Rose Creek Village. In time they may moderate.....there is always hope for all of us.....
Peace Out,
Earnestseeker

[nabashalam]

It is good to get it all out... Bravo earnestkeeper! Now let it go and move on...

IMHO there is no community guided by the Holy Spirit and we all must live the journey, learn the lessons and love were we can along the way...

[nabashalam]

"let it go and move on..." or not!:D

[earnestseeker]

thanks for your support and friendship....what does IMYO or whatever you abbreviated?
Yes...I need to dig down deep this year and come to a place where I can make a clean break with my past and rid my soul of anger, resentment, hurt....replace it with love, ...including self-love, healthy friendships, healthy ways of coping, etc.

I think I am having such a hard time letting go of Rose Creek because I am lacking something within myself....I think I am making a lot of progress there and that I feel much less empty than I even felt two or three months ago....
I am breaking out of my mental prison with God's help and some christians' help...I think I am probably a typical person with "Borderline Personality Disorder"....these persons typically have trouble in a couple of areas....being compulsive.....I have been this way in the areas of sex and money.....using these things to try to meet emotional needs within myself.
And of course there is the spiritual aspect....the rebirth in Christ, etc.
Rose Creek Village draws a hard line in the dirt and rejects anything like psychology, etc...at least the woman I lived with was extremely dogmatic and very strong with me, telling me not to bring up that "psychology junk".
One thing I like about Reba Place Fellowship....a Mennonite (very modern) community...is they learned through many years of experience and partly through a woman who committed suicide in response to their spiritual pressures.....they learned to integrate the help of christian counseling and psychology, theophostic healing, etc. into their belief system.
They are supportive of christian counseling and seem to have a special ministry in helping those with emotional or mental illness. They are supportive of twelve step programs.....they have a successful track record in helping persons with emotional illness.
Rose Creek Village on the other hand demonstrated insensitivity and simplistic answers when faced with my emotional problems.....along with outright intimidating and mean handling of my problems. Their solution to everything is to just shut up and do the dishes....they refused our request for some kind of counseling.
One of their more loving and gentle "leaders"...Nathaniel....he spoke with me once in a meeting and he said he could see where I felt dirty and that he could see that I needed a couple of intimate friendships to keep me on track.
But no one really supported me in developing the intimate friendships that I needed. I am very emotionally immature in knowing how to reach out and ask for friendship....intimacy is something I am very nervous, shy and insecure about.

Some of the women I felt most comfortable with were too busy and they point blank told me that they were too busy.
I did have a relationship with a woman named Mercy and she often was available....I do appreciate the time that I was able to get....I know people did love me and that I did love them but in the end I had some rather judgemental and hardline housemates that were not able to give me what I need and I became more and more anxious, insecure, depressed, etc.
Then when I moved off the property after exploding in anger I felt very rejected...no one bothered to speak with me.....there were a lot more people talking ABOUT me than TO me.
This group made me feel so unlovable....so not worth a pile of dirt.....my self-esteem has always tended to be low in spite of my academic accomplishments ( I have two Bachelor Degrees....one in journalism and one in nursing).....so this was hurtful to me and not what I needed.

But I am rather complex and just beginning my recovery.....I have not sought out professional help so I am just beginning my journey in the way of getting treatment for my emotional/mental illness.....I tend to project an image of what I want others to see.....I tend to not be in touch with my feelings so if I don't understand my emotions and how to deal with them....how can anyone else understand?

I did clearly ask for help at the village and so did my husband and most of the time I was very sweet and expressed a lot of love and affection for others and tried my best to keep up with the work schedule there in spite of my depression and other emotional/mental problems.
In the end the leaders did not respect my husband when he said that I needed counseling.....
Like I said very insensitive, very impersonal and simplistic leadership here.

When I was there they were trying to help a young woman who had trouble with slitting her wrists, i.e. suicide attempts.....she did cut her wrists two or three times at the village.....so I hope they have the wisdom to help her. She is very young.

They seem to do very well with young persons....I think if I was twenty years old they would have been more supportive and helpful towards me....but since I was thirty-nine, well-educated, a mother, assertive, etc. they did not have the ability to have compassion for me nor to see what I needed.
I can understand how this could happen.
I also saw that they did not take so great a care of an elderly woman there....I mean she was not abused or anything....but she was very elderly....at least in her seventies or maybe even eighties.....and they put her in a local nursing home.
Since this is my industry and I have cared for a lot of elderly and have even managed nursing homes.....I know that the care in the nursing home in no way equals the quality of care that could have been delivered right there in the village.
I have seen other christian communities such as the Bruderhof take shifts and share the burden of caring for an elderly person.....the bruderhof states that God gives us these persons in our lives to give us an opportunity to show love in action.

At rose creek village this elderly woman was criticized for not doing what she was able to do, etc. And most of the burden for her care was placed on her daughter.

So Rose Creek village kinda has the typical American "culture of youth" where they bend over backwards to care for the children, teens and young persons but really come up short when it comes to caring for older adults or the elderly.

I think it just boils down to an insensitivity and hardness in the leadership towards these people. The leadership sets the standards and all those good "regular" people just follow right along.

Anyway I have people right here in my life that love me and I am very important to them....I feel undeserving of my family's love. I will now try to set aside my thoughts of the village and be present in the here and now for these precious people in my life that really do love me.

peace and love to everyone....even you RCVers!!!
May the sun shine brightly on everyone today and may God help us all find
His light in our daily lives and relationships....
Bethany the Earnestseeker

[bramble]

thanks for your support and friendship....what does IMYO or whatever you abbreviated?
Yes...I need to dig down deep this year and come to a place where I can make a clean break with my past and rid my soul of anger, resentment, hurt....replace it with love, ...including self-love, healthy friendships, healthy ways of coping, etc.

I think I am having such a hard time letting go of Rose Creek because I am lacking something within myself....I think I am making a lot of progress there and that I feel much less empty than I even felt two or three months ago....
I am breaking out of my mental prison with God's help and some christians' help...I think I am probably a typical person with "Borderline Personality Disorder"....these persons typically have trouble in a couple of areas....being compulsive.....I have been this way in the areas of sex and money.....using these things to try to meet emotional needs within myself.
And of course there is the spiritual aspect....the rebirth in Christ, etc.
Rose Creek Village draws a hard line in the dirt and rejects anything like psychology, etc...at least the woman I lived with was extremely dogmatic and very strong with me, telling me not to bring up that "psychology junk".
One thing I like about Reba Place Fellowship....a Mennonite (very modern) community...is they learned through many years of experience and partly through a woman who committed suicide in response to their spiritual pressures.....they learned to integrate the help of christian counseling and psychology, theophostic healing, etc. into their belief system.
They are supportive of christian counseling and seem to have a special ministry in helping those with emotional or mental illness. They are supportive of twelve step programs.....they have a successful track record in helping persons with emotional illness.
Rose Creek Village on the other hand demonstrated insensitivity and simplistic answers when faced with my emotional problems.....along with outright intimidating and mean handling of my problems. Their solution to everything is to just shut up and do the dishes....they refused our request for some kind of counseling.
One of their more loving and gentle "leaders"...Nathaniel....he spoke with me once in a meeting and he said he could see where I felt dirty and that he could see that I needed a couple of intimate friendships to keep me on track.
But no one really supported me in developing the intimate friendships that I needed. I am very emotionally immature in knowing how to reach out and ask for friendship....intimacy is something I am very nervous, shy and insecure about.

Some of the women I felt most comfortable with were too busy and they point blank told me that they were too busy.
I did have a relationship with a woman named Mercy and she often was available....I do appreciate the time that I was able to get....I know people did love me and that I did love them but in the end I had some rather judgemental and hardline housemates that were not able to give me what I need and I became more and more anxious, insecure, depressed, etc.
Then when I moved off the property after exploding in anger I felt very rejected...no one bothered to speak with me.....there were a lot more people talking ABOUT me than TO me.
This group made me feel so unlovable....so not worth a pile of dirt.....my self-esteem has always tended to be low in spite of my academic accomplishments ( I have two Bachelor Degrees....one in journalism and one in nursing).....so this was hurtful to me and not what I needed.

But I am rather complex and just beginning my recovery.....I have not sought out professional help so I am just beginning my journey in the way of getting treatment for my emotional/mental illness.....I tend to project an image of what I want others to see.....I tend to not be in touch with my feelings so if I don't understand my emotions and how to deal with them....how can anyone else understand?

I did clearly ask for help at the village and so did my husband and most of the time I was very sweet and expressed a lot of love and affection for others and tried my best to keep up with the work schedule there in spite of my depression and other emotional/mental problems.
In the end the leaders did not respect my husband when he said that I needed counseling.....
Like I said very insensitive, very impersonal and simplistic leadership here.

When I was there they were trying to help a young woman who had trouble with slitting her wrists, i.e. suicide attempts.....she did cut her wrists two or three times at the village.....so I hope they have the wisdom to help her. She is very young.

They seem to do very well with young persons....I think if I was twenty years old they would have been more supportive and helpful towards me....but since I was thirty-nine, well-educated, a mother, assertive, etc. they did not have the ability to have compassion for me nor to see what I needed.
I can understand how this could happen.
I also saw that they did not take so great a care of an elderly woman there....I mean she was not abused or anything....but she was very elderly....at least in her seventies or maybe even eighties.....and they put her in a local nursing home.
Since this is my industry and I have cared for a lot of elderly and have even managed nursing homes.....I know that the care in the nursing home in no way equals the quality of care that could have been delivered right there in the village.
I have seen other christian communities such as the Bruderhof take shifts and share the burden of caring for an elderly person.....the bruderhof states that God gives us these persons in our lives to give us an opportunity to show love in action.

At rose creek village this elderly woman was criticized for not doing what she was able to do, etc. And most of the burden for her care was placed on her daughter.

So Rose Creek village kinda has the typical American "culture of youth" where they bend over backwards to care for the children, teens and young persons but really come up short when it comes to caring for older adults or the elderly.

I think it just boils down to an insensitivity and hardness in the leadership towards these people. The leadership sets the standards and all those good "regular" people just follow right along.

Anyway I have people right here in my life that love me and I am very important to them....I feel undeserving of my family's love. I will now try to set aside my thoughts of the village and be present in the here and now for these precious people in my life that really do love me.

peace and love to everyone....even you RCVers!!!
May the sun shine brightly on everyone today and may God help us all find
His light in our daily lives and relationships....
Bethany the Earnestseeker

If you have Boarderline Personality Disorder, or OCD, or Bipolar Disorder, or what have you...and have been abused prior to joining RCV, and considering the fact that you are an RN, you need not be told. I'm going to tell you any way. Please consider getting a professional evaluation and medication, if necessary. The other problems: (obsession, compulsion, risky behavior--joining cults, etc. getting hung up on one thing) may be indeed symptoms of a real physical and psychological conditon. Don't use bad health insurance as cop out for not getting help. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Reba Fellowship is just another cult. If there was a suicide in there, that should be a red flag!! Mennonites don't believe in modern medicine, but only in faith healing, as far as I know. You seem to be gravitating towards other cults. I noticed from reading your earlier posts. Don't keep repeating the same mistakes.

Blogging and religion can be good things in moderation. They can also be addictive. Don't use them as a surrogate for doing what God wants you to do--namely, taking care of yourself and your family.

Re-read you posts. You will see your emotions are all over the map. One moment you are down and really depressed, then you are up and on the wild side, then you are furious and raging. Now you are on the way back down and seem to be feeling needlessly guilty, in my opinion.

Coming out of an environment like RCV, anyone would need counselling.

I say this because I care.

God Bless You!! Have a great day!

[bramble]

Hi again bramble....I just read "Eleven signs of Perverted Authority"
ELEVEN MARKS OF PERVERTED AUTHORITY


(1) The claim of direct authority from God, rather than testing things by the Word. Many today have set "personal" revelation and experience above the final authority of God's Word. When this occurs there is no longer any basis for asertaining the will of God, as one would not be able to discern truth from error because the standard is "personal" rather than the Word of God.

(2) The command is to "submit to me," rather than "I will serve you."
(3) The method of leadership is to "order" people around, rather than to appeal for them to do the right things.
(4) There is a dominating, "pushy" drive instead of a dependence on God to direct.
(5) There is a sense of control, rather than a sense of support.
(6) A gift is exploited so that others are made to feel dependent on it.
(7) There is an inflexibility - "don't question me" - "don't touch the Lord's anointed."
(8) There is unapproachability and intimidation - the "aura" around the leader keeps the followers in "awe."
(9) There emerges an organization built around a man and his peculiar emphases instead of around Christ and His Word.
(10) There will be cyclical challenges to the authority figure (which are immediately and forcefully purged). (11) There is more concern for maintaining the authoritarian structure than there is for caring about the people in it.

I'm afraid most of these do fit the village....it hurts me to give up totally on the village...I feel empty and almost hopeless when I admit that they are a "nice" cult...
but that empty feeling is typical of borderline personality disorder....so I must just accept this and believe that there are other ministries and counseling out there that will help me "find my way"....
Well I hope you have a good day,
Bethany the Earnestseeker

Sorry I missed this post.

Keep reading more things like this. Become a cult expert. This can help you in so many ways. I'm currently reading Toxic Faith. I highly recommend it.

Remember, some ministries seem normal at first, but may be wolves in sheeps' clothing. Once you get sucked in then it is too late because you are looking too closely at it to see what you have joined. All cults are nice on the surface. Most wear normal clothes.

I am a firm a believer in old, established Churches. They are safe.

God Bless!!

[earnestseeker]

Hi again Bramble...yes I am coming more to an acceptance of the fact that Rose Creek Village is a cult.....they have so many nice people there...good christian persons....I feel sorry for Noah right at this moment.....he has decieved himself and I feel even sorrier for Haviylah....the women are so constricted.....
I'm sure a lot of them and maybe even Noah will make it to heaven....only God knows...
a man can become very vulnerable to power, authority, respect....it feeds their egos...and Noah was not loved by his father and then had trouble with a divorce, then drugs.....he finally created a society in which he could be important and loved, huh?
Yeah...they seem so together and loving at first.....then you lose your temper over all the control and they kick you out into a cheap local motel...that you pay for out of your almost gone savings.....and tell you you can only see your husband and children twice that week.
And then no one counsels you after this "punishment"....you are just left bleeding....expected to take it and go do the dishes.
Yeah ...they are a cult....they are the nicest meanest people I have ever met....I love and dislike them so much.....
oh well....God help us all.....
it is so easy to go overboard with religion, food, money, sex.....just about anything....yes, and the internet....I know I need to replace this internet intimacy with real live human friends but it takes time so for now I will enjoy my remote friendship with you.
I hope people looking at Rose Creek Village can read my honest posts and see what they are getting into. If you watch their DVD and read their website...it all looks and sounds so perfect.
And they can be so sweet.....they believe they are doing you a favor when they get more on the abusive side....they believe they are "ripping the flesh off of you"...forcing you to become more holy.
Anyway....enough about them...I must leave for my meeting now....
Love you Bramble...have a great night....I would like to read Toxic Faith when I get the money to buy it.
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

What I was saying is that:

1) you could get acquainted with the public library to learn more about cults. I bet they have some books. Try second hand book stores, too.

2) think about getting into counseling to deal with the spiritual abuse and other issues. If you have any sort of a physiological problem that needs to be addressed, deal with it.

3) as far as money goes you state probably has medical assistance for those who need it.

Internet friends can only do so much for us. Please re-read my last two posts and think carefully if you are considering moving again.

I bet your children also suffered at RCV, too. Get some help for them, too. Don't jump in with both feet into the next RCV-like situation that comes down the pike.


RCV equates blind obedience with holiness. I know their type. They try to beat their sheep into submission. Communities like them are dime a dozen. They all seem nice and normal at first. Once you join then they sock it to you, so beware.

Remember DENIAL isn't just a river in Egypt. (LOL)


God Bless!!

[earnestseeker]

hi again Bramble....no I am not thinking of moving....I think my kids are OK....the older one needs some stability....not to say he was not affected by RCV....I think he was affected a little....but his overall life has been very safe and nurturing and he seems to be adjusting well to this good public school I found.
I'm addressing my need to move around.....I feel hopeful that I can gain some stability....emotionally and financially.
I have a great husband....and my mother has become more stable since her near-death accident....it pushed her into early elderly status....which is both good and bad.
maybe she will go to twelve step and keep working on her issues as I set a good example.
I will get counseling.....I am learning so much at the Sex Addicts Anonymous meetings.....you learn a lot as you listen to other sex addicts .....we share common emotional problems that are underneath our acting out.

Well....God is good....he makes the sun to shine on all peoples. He is a merciful God.
I feel that I am coming close to being able to accept what happened at RCV and to heal and move on. As I feel I have friends and work and husband and SA, etc. I can let go emotionally and mentally from RCV.
I will thank God for the good things I learned.....I did learn a lot of good things......and let go of the darker things that I experienced there.
I hope they can check themselves before they get more and more abusive. as you get submerged in religion you can lose just good ol' down to earth humanity....such as taking a disbled woman to the doctor to relieve her horrible pain.....that is a no brainer....I think some gang members would possibly do that.....heathens have even that much compassion......

Well peace and love to you.....don't worry....I am getting a lot of free help already from SA and God is able to reach me outside of church walls. God sees what we have been through and I feel very secure that He is still working to show us Himself and to care for our needs as we have put our search for spiritual things above even our financial needs.....
God is Love. If we all just learn how to love we won't have to worry about anything else......
Oh....I don't think Reba Fellowship is a cult. They are very open to different levels of membership.....you get to choose your level of involvement.....and they are very open to helping persons get professional help, etc.
My feelings just got hurt by a person there.....and he is now acting more loving....I must have caught him in a grumpy moment.....
well have a great day bramble....we are having wonderful weather here......
love and peace,
Earnestseeker

[bramble]

hi again Bramble....no I am not thinking of moving....I think my kids are OK....the older one needs some stability....not to say he was not affected by RCV....I think he was affected a little....but his overall life has been very safe and nurturing and he seems to be adjusting well to this good public school I found.
I'm addressing my need to move around.....I feel hopeful that I can gain some stability....emotionally and financially.
I have a great husband....and my mother has become more stable since her near-death accident....it pushed her into early elderly status....which is both good and bad.
maybe she will go to twelve step and keep working on her issues as I set a good example.
I will get counseling.....I am learning so much at the Sex Addicts Anonymous meetings.....you learn a lot as you listen to other sex addicts .....we share common emotional problems that are underneath our acting out.

Well....God is good....he makes the sun to shine on all peoples. He is a merciful God.
I feel that I am coming close to being able to accept what happened at RCV and to heal and move on. As I feel I have friends and work and husband and SA, etc. I can let go emotionally and mentally from RCV.
I will thank God for the good things I learned.....I did learn a lot of good things......and let go of the darker things that I experienced there.
I hope they can check themselves before they get more and more abusive. as you get submerged in religion you can lose just good ol' down to earth humanity....such as taking a disbled woman to the doctor to relieve her horrible pain.....that is a no brainer....I think some gang members would possibly do that.....heathens have even that much compassion......

I'm glad your mother is doing better.. Too bad about the accident. We need to walk a thin like as we have both spiritual and bodily needs. What meant is that we do not need to immerse ourselves in communes. We can be free. Free to choose right from wrong. We don't need a mentor to tell us what to think. God gave us a conscience for that.

Well peace and love to you.....don't worry....I am getting a lot of free help already from SA and God is able to reach me outside of church walls. God sees what we have been through and I feel very secure that He is still working to show us Himself and to care for our needs as we have put our search for spiritual things above even our financial needs.....
God is Love. If we all just learn how to love we won't have to worry about anything else......
Oh....I don't think Reba Fellowship is a cult. They are very open to different levels of membership.....you get to choose your level of involvement.....and they are very open to helping persons get professional help, etc.
My feelings just got hurt by a person there.....and he is now acting more loving....I must have caught him in a grumpy moment.....
well have a great day bramble....we are having wonderful weather here......
love and peace,
EarnestseekerDon't be so sure. Check out www.freedomofmind.org and www.rickross.com (http://www.rickross.com). There are other links. I just can't think of them.

Reba is at very least a commune. I'm not the only one who smells a cult. Any member would live in their housing, newbies would be interns under mentors. All property is held communally. They have these enormous dining tables that hold a couple dozen people.

From what I have learned, Mennonites and Amish are cults. They rarely speak to outsiders. They have a strict sometimes abusive culture. Women are seen as property.

You are new in your recovery. Go slowly. Your problems may go back to your childhood. I'm glad you are planning to get counceling.

BTW: if you visit www.cfcmi.org (http://www.cfcmi.org) they don't seem like a cult on the surface, either. I just know how to read between the lines.

What happened to the Lutheran School?--just wondering!

[earnestseeker]

hi bramble...the lutheran school became too expensive after I lost my job....I am starting another that pays well and we will soon be able to make a plan to catch up on financial debts.
The elementary school down the street is excellent....the best school district ever is what they have a reputation for....they do stress academics but they seem to make it a little fun anyway and so far they have been reasonably friendly to parents. The mix of children seems good...I do not hear of any stories of my sons being bullied, etc....I think they are in good classrooms with good kids....
We are not in a wealthy neighborhood...but middle class anyway.....

My friend...the one I told you about ....gave me a book titled "The Shack" by William P. Young.....there is one chapter titled "In the Belly of the Beasts" that I plan to read soon....there is a quote under this chapter title:

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction." (Blaise Pascal)

I am independent in nature...I like having my freedom and I don't need others to care for my financial needs.....I do need to pursue emotional and mental health and learn how to develop friendships and how to meet my intimacy needs and needs for friends.
I have decided I am a very social person and I must make some time out of my busy life to meet those needs or I will become lonely, etc.

I have no desire to move to Chicago ....so no plans on joining Reba. they seem to follow the directive set forth in "Star Trek".....the law of NO INTERFERENCE...lol....
they seem to value the individual and to foster individuality and independence....

Not to say they are perfect. One thing I have learned this year.....people are just people. Even christians.....people can be loving at times and selfish at other times...it is best to be independent and to share love but that's all.....like the bible says....own no man anything but to love.......I think I am using this scripture in context here.......
it is easy to take scripture out of context to support our own selfish whatever arguments....it is even easier to say "the Holy spirit led me or us"...you don't even need scripture then!!! Which is what the village does.....they can do a wide variety of things.....especially the leaders......because the Holy spirit is leading them!!! They don't even have to have scripture to back their actions up....
Just like when I questioned a wife there about why her husband was not allowed to see his two year old son and ten and twelve year old sons for about two months....even though he lived just a block away.....she was able to justify this by saying "I want him to not be distracted...I want him to focus on what he is doing".

You can justify away anything.....and the leaders....especially Noah....well he is "entitled" as the man of God to travel at great expense of the village because he is on a mission for God.
and even if the other leaders disagree....which I suspect some of them do.....he probably makes it very difficult and exhausting for them to disagree with him.....there is a price to be paid.
It was said at a gathering that one of their more gentler and loving leaders.....Nathaniel......had been "burnt" by Noah's temper and fiery words.....

so you are right....they are just your typical cult. How could I have not seen this?
I was looking for love.....and so many of their members are such good christians....no doubt about that....some very precious people there that just take care of the children, etc. God Bless them for their service to others for the love of God.

You would be hard pressed to find anything "illegal" about their activities....they work within the bounds of the law.....emotional abuse is not something that our courts of law address.....it is too complex.....not black and white.....
Child Protective Services will not remove a child or prosecute parents for emotional abuse. And spiritual abuse....who even knows what that is? even harder to define.

Well life is good.....what does not kills us makes us stronger.....God can use even hurtful experiences if we let Him. No doubt I have learned more than I realize and I am finally getting professional help for myself.....something I should have done a long time ago but I was too busy pursuing professional success....

love and peace to you.....chin up.....
have a great day Bramble
p.s. I have thought today that even though my kids are doing fine....my oldest has had a little trouble and he probably would open up and talk to a counselor even more than his mom.....he leans toward having some emotional problems.....I think I will get hiim some counseling just to make sure he is learning and processing life in a healthy way.
It is healthy to learn to communicate intimately about your emotions, feelings....to learn what to do with these emotions....it is important he learns these things.
I think counseling would just be another form of education if you like.....not an indicator that he is messed up or that I have failed in some way as a parent.

I do the best I can with my kids and I think they have had great lives....but I know there is some emotional side of me that wants to connect with them more but just can't right now....I need to heal and get something for myself to be whole and really to be able to be there for them emotionally.....
So a counselor would be good ....I will look into this.....

love and peace,
Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Hi again Bramble....I found this interesting article on Romantic obsession....very interesting. I have been obsessed with the whole group of Rose Creek village (I think about them everyday) and I definitely have had a romantic obsession with Noah.
I feel that this has gotten much better (especially the thing with Noah since I never even get an email from him anymore....lol)....now I am basically just having thoughts and memories of RCV every day. I will discuss all this thoroughly with my counselor.
Borderline Personality Disorder.....persons with this have a great fear of abandonment....I know my feelings of rejection really pushed me over the edge emotionally.....luckily I was not suicidal like I was from 17 to 24...no way, I have too much to live for....I don't have suicidal ideation anymore. Although I must admit I had a couple of suicidal thoughts when I lived at RCV. Nothing I could not quickly dispel.
Anyway.....interesting article for anyone interested in learning more about romantic obsession......

Peace Out


DRAFT – Romantic Obsession April 14, 2008 Page 1 of 3 ROMANTIC OBSESSION
This is a DRAFT pamphlet submitted by the CLC at the 2008 ABM for the SLAA Fellowship–at-large to review and provide comments, additions or feedback by October 15, 2008. Please send all comments to clc-chair@slaafws.org.
Many of us come to Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous because of some form of Obsession. Romantic obsessions can occur because of sexual obsessions, the beginning or ending of a relationship, or an unhealthy fixation on another person with whom we may or may not even have a relationship. The addictive nature of obsession-no matter what the focus, always has a driven and unrelenting quality to it. Obsessions can distort both our thinking and our behavior and lead us in a direction that violates our dignity or integrity as a person.
We who are plagued with romantic obsession have found hope and recovery in SLAA. The program does not guarantee the idealized romantic relationship that our disease craves. However. by working the Twelve Steps of SLAA we can begin to counter the destructive behaviors and self hatred that accompany obsession.
Once we become willing to surrender and take healthy action we can be guided safely back to sanity and released from the bondage of romantic obsession.
The following are some ways that obsessions may affect us.
Romantic obsessions can distort our perception
They can prevent us from seeing the object of our obsession as s/he really is
They may compel us to idealize, glorify, and give power to the other person
They may compel us to demonize or resent the object of our obsession
They may compel us to project qualities onto the person that s/he doesn’t have
They can cause delusional thinking and denial of the disease
They can even convince us that we’ll die without the other person
Romantic obsessions can distort reality
They tell us the other person can make us feel secure and content
They tell us that our peace of mind depends on them acknowledging us or giving us what we want
They tell us we "love" the other person even though we may not respect his or her limits, shortcomings or boundaries.
They may tell us the person represents a lifestyle we want but are now being denied
They make our friendships seem flat and meaningless
They tell us that s/he is judging us and has found us a failure, inadequate or pathetic
They demand loyalty to the person even if s/he ignores, hurts or violates us
They make us arrogant by telling us other people can’t understand our pain
Romantic obsessions can cause self destructive behavior
They may urge us to try to rescue, fix or control someone and expect commitment, loyalty or obedience in return
They may get us to lie about our motives, manipulate and coerce others, initiate or engage in power games, or violate people’s privacy and personal boundaries
They may make us use sex to get attention, to manipulate, to exploit, to reward or control or to have sex even if we don’t want it DRAFT – Romantic Obsession April 14, 2008 Page 2 of 3
They may lead us into sexually compulsive behavior, pornography, multiple sexual relationships, dangerous behavior, or sexual anorexia in an effort to escape emotional pain
Romantic obsessions stop us from moving into life
They often prevent us from setting goals or moving towards them
They can cut us off from other people
They may restrict our behavior, narrowing it to a few monotonous routines
They can take away our interests and our interest in life itself
They can leave us feeling impotent, flat and lifeless
They can subvert us, derail us, undermine us and block us from emotional growth
Romantic obsessions are self-negating
They may tell us our life has no purpose, value or future
They can negate our real accomplishments and abilities
They may tell us we’re undesirable, unlovable, sexless and unworthy
They isolate us from others then attack us with loneliness and pain
They can ask us to compare ourselves with those who appear to ‘have it all’
They may tell us we’re helpless and make us feel defeated
They can destroy any sense of purpose or mission we may have had
They can distort our personalities, make us victims, liars, cheats or even violent
Romantic obsessions are based on fear
Fear of abandonment and/or rejection
Fear of being alone
Fear of being used, cheated on, or humiliated
Fear of having no value and being undesirable
Fear of being destroyed
Fear of commitment to, and responsibility for, ourselves and our recovery.
Obsessions lead to dishonesty
Denial
Delusional thinking
Personal acts of dishonesty (i.e. manipulation, intrusion on others privacy etc.)
Here are some Strategies for Overcoming an Obsession
Work the Steps!
Get humble and admit you’re powerless over the object of your obsession and obsession itself
Pray and Meditate (God asks no one to live in shame, isolation, self hatred and fear)
Ask your Higher Power to relieve your obsession
List your accomplishments, strengths and talents
Make an inventory of your fears
Detach – avoid the object of your obsession or request a temporary no-contact agreement
Practice healthy vulnerability – share at meetings, get a sponsor, make outreach calls
Practice self care by pursuing interests that you enjoy-especially exercise
Start pursuing interests and people you’ve avoided
Set top lines for yourself – focus on what you want to add to your work, home life or for relaxation DRAFT – Romantic Obsession April 14, 2008 Page 3 of 3
Find, or re-find, your purpose or mission in life.
Be of service to somebody else
In our experience there is a common pattern in the various forms of sex and love addiction-whether the shape is seen as "sex addiction", "love addiction" or "relationship addiction". Obsession, self destruction and the desire to stop that behavior is the same.
The solution is also the same: stop acting out or acting in, go to meetings, go through withdrawal, and work the steps

[earnestseeker]

I hate being a sex addict....do people in general even know what that is?
It sounds weird, huh? And who would think you could get addicted to it like a drug?
Intimacy disorder sounds better, huh? Love addict sounds so silly....sex addict does to.
I don't like saying: "Hi, I'm Beth, I'm a sex addict." I'm sick of saying that.
I guess I have to much pride.....I guess I will just have to get used to this because I guess I am a sex addict....or love addict....or someone with an intimacy disorder.
I guess this will build humility in me, LOL!!!
Good Night Everyone!! Have you hugged your kids today?
Have you hugged your cult leader today?
What have you done for your cult friends today!!!
No I am not on drugs......at least not the kind you inject into your veins!!!!
Peace Out!!!!!!
How do any of us find the way of God? this has driven me crazy.....so what am I now?
A religion addict????
really I seem like a regular person most of the time!!!!
Love to everyone....
earnestseeker the nutty buddy!!!

[earnestseeker]

Wow Bramble....as I become more secure emotionally and find hope that I don't need a group like Rose Creek Village to feel loved, etc......as I become emotionally healthier.....it is becoming CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that Rose Creek Village is in fact just your typical cult. They probably are "nicer" than a lot of them and nothing blatantly illegal.....they do not keep people from physically leaving or try to talk them out of leaving......in fact, they did nothing but encourage me to leave from the first day I got there.......
But they obviously are a cult on many levels.......not to say that some of them are not christians....God looks at the heart......there are so many there that just love God and serve others.....then I think there are some that really do know they are in a cult but for whatever reasons just decide to stay anyway.

Here is an interesting post from a guest.....it describes many aspects of RCV very well......
How Can I Discern Whether I'm in a Healthy or Abusive Fellowship?

Abusive fellowships are often the most exciting Christian gatherings around -- filled with dedicated, committed, enthusiastic leaders and members. Do not let enthusiasm and sincerity be the basis for approval. More often than not, abusive fellowships cannot be recognized by mere outward appearance. By discrediting facts, the leaders of such gatherings control information. Leaders may deny these practices -- or marginalize them in some way. It is important to investigate any fellowship thoroughly.

Abusive fellowships often change the meaning of words. In these fellowships, "unity" commonly means agreement with the leaders opinions. Members are often told that they are "out of unity" when they disagree with the leaders' opinions. Healthy fellowships understand that true unity means that
There is one body and one Spirit -- just as you were called to one hope when you were called -- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4)

Every healthy fellowship will have disagreements, and yet be in unity in the Biblical sense as brothers and sisters in Christ.

In healthy fellowships members commonly maintain friendships when friends leave the group. Abusive fellowships tend to view almost everyone who leaves as a backslider and they view most other Christians as not committed or saved. Healthy fellowships do not consistently tell derogatory stories about those who leave.

In healthy fellowships the leaders prove themselves to be trustworthy in order to be trusted. In abusive fellowships the leaders must be trusted because they are the leaders. To not trust them is to sin.

In healthy fellowships we are admonished to imitate the Christ-like virtues seen in others. In abusive fellowships the leaders are imitated in many more ways than just their virtues. In fact, members take on many of the personal characteristics (personality) of the leaders in a manner that appears unseemly. This is particularly true of those being groomed for "ministry."
In healthy fellowships commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to Apostolic teaching, is absolutely necessary. In abusive fellowships members must be equally committed to the group and to its practices and peculiar beliefs. Some even have members sign "covenant" documents, much like marriage vows.

In healthy fellowships we are exhorted to obey clear Biblical mandates. In abusive fellowships we are exhorted (or pressured) to obey the leaders' opinions --even when our conscience says "no."
In healthy fellowships the confession of sins and "bearing of one another's burdens" is a personal matter that takes place in the context of a larger "family" relationship with other Christians. In abusive fellowships sins are exposed by (or to) leaders and pressure is often applied to confess to the group.

In healthy fellowships secrecy and independence in personal matters -- before God -- are acceptable as long as sins are confessed in private. In abusive fellowships secrecy or independence in personal affairs are scorned, and all areas of life are to be exposed -- even those that do not touch moral issues.

In healthy fellowships we are encouraged to love and bless our enemies. In abusive fellowships showing hatred for our enemies and speaking defamatory of them is acceptable. And often the occasion for "rallying the troops."

Abusive leaders seldom practice this scripture:
...when ridiculed, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered we respond gently... (1 Cor 4:12, 13)

Matt. 18:15
If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you.
1 Timothy 5:19, 20

Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

In healthy fellowships Matthew 18:15 applies to every member without distinction -- you are to go to your brother or sister alone -- while 1st Timothy 5:19-20 (a stricter standard) applies to leaders. In abusive fellowships Matthew 18:15 applies to leaders -- you are to deal with them alone -- instead of 1st Timothy 5:19-20. These latter verses are often ignored, thus preventing two or three from EVER bringing an accusation against a leader in error.

Non-abusive leaders rebuke members only for grave public sins, as a last resort (Matthew 18:17). Abusive leaders often publicly rebuke or ostracize members who simply disagree with leaders' opinions. Usually vis-à-vis sermon illustrations or applications, etc.

Non-abusive leaders do not encourage people to leave the fellowships because of differences of opinion. Abusive leaders often assume the right -- unilaterally -- to tell or encourage members who do not agree with leaders' opinions to leave the fellowship.

Non-abusive leaders do not view members as "lacking spiritually" simply because they do not participate in numerous fellowship activities. Abusive leaders view as "spiritually lacking" those who fail to attend most all their fellowship activities. Some even mandate the number of meetings members MUST attend.

Non-abusive leaders do not discourage members from reading information critical about the group. Abusive leaders often control negative information about the group by either discrediting it or by dissuading members not to read it.
Non-abusive leaders do not judge your hearts, but they leave that to God. Abusive leaders constantly judge hearts, motives, and intents. They basically assume -- rather, usurp -- the place of God.
Wow....it is easy to fall in to a cult without realizing it......I am learning so much from this experience......they can have pieces of biblical truth in them......in the unsuspecting, trusting, searching person things can look so great on the outside.....

Here is the interesting excerpt:



How Can I Discern Whether I'm in a Healthy or Abusive Fellowship?

Abusive fellowships are often the most exciting Christian gatherings around -- filled with dedicated, committed, enthusiastic leaders and members. Do not let enthusiasm and sincerity be the basis for approval. More often than not, abusive fellowships cannot be recognized by mere outward appearance. By discrediting facts, the leaders of such gatherings control information. Leaders may deny these practices -- or marginalize them in some way. It is important to investigate any fellowship thoroughly.

Abusive fellowships often change the meaning of words. In these fellowships, "unity" commonly means agreement with the leaders opinions. Members are often told that they are "out of unity" when they disagree with the leaders' opinions. Healthy fellowships understand that true unity means that
There is one body and one Spirit -- just as you were called to one hope when you were called -- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4)

Every healthy fellowship will have disagreements, and yet be in unity in the Biblical sense as brothers and sisters in Christ.

In healthy fellowships members commonly maintain friendships when friends leave the group. Abusive fellowships tend to view almost everyone who leaves as a backslider and they view most other Christians as not committed or saved. Healthy fellowships do not consistently tell derogatory stories about those who leave.

In healthy fellowships the leaders prove themselves to be trustworthy in order to be trusted. In abusive fellowships the leaders must be trusted because they are the leaders. To not trust them is to sin.

In healthy fellowships we are admonished to imitate the Christ-like virtues seen in others. In abusive fellowships the leaders are imitated in many more ways than just their virtues. In fact, members take on many of the personal characteristics (personality) of the leaders in a manner that appears unseemly. This is particularly true of those being groomed for "ministry."
In healthy fellowships commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to Apostolic teaching, is absolutely necessary. In abusive fellowships members must be equally committed to the group and to its practices and peculiar beliefs. Some even have members sign "covenant" documents, much like marriage vows.

In healthy fellowships we are exhorted to obey clear Biblical mandates. In abusive fellowships we are exhorted (or pressured) to obey the leaders' opinions --even when our conscience says "no."
In healthy fellowships the confession of sins and "bearing of one another's burdens" is a personal matter that takes place in the context of a larger "family" relationship with other Christians. In abusive fellowships sins are exposed by (or to) leaders and pressure is often applied to confess to the group.

In healthy fellowships secrecy and independence in personal matters -- before God -- are acceptable as long as sins are confessed in private. In abusive fellowships secrecy or independence in personal affairs are scorned, and all areas of life are to be exposed -- even those that do not touch moral issues.

In healthy fellowships we are encouraged to love and bless our enemies. In abusive fellowships showing hatred for our enemies and speaking defamatory of them is acceptable. And often the occasion for "rallying the troops."

Abusive leaders seldom practice this scripture:
...when ridiculed, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered we respond gently... (1 Cor 4:12, 13)

Matt. 18:15
If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you.
1 Timothy 5:19, 20

Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

In healthy fellowships Matthew 18:15 applies to every member without distinction -- you are to go to your brother or sister alone -- while 1st Timothy 5:19-20 (a stricter standard) applies to leaders. In abusive fellowships Matthew 18:15 applies to leaders -- you are to deal with them alone -- instead of 1st Timothy 5:19-20. These latter verses are often ignored, thus preventing two or three from EVER bringing an accusation against a leader in error.

Non-abusive leaders rebuke members only for grave public sins, as a last resort (Matthew 18:17). Abusive leaders often publicly rebuke or ostracize members who simply disagree with leaders' opinions. Usually vis-à-vis sermon illustrations or applications, etc.

Non-abusive leaders do not encourage people to leave the fellowships because of differences of opinion. Abusive leaders often assume the right -- unilaterally -- to tell or encourage members who do not agree with leaders' opinions to leave the fellowship.

Non-abusive leaders do not view members as "lacking spiritually" simply because they do not participate in numerous fellowship activities. Abusive leaders view as "spiritually lacking" those who fail to attend most all their fellowship activities. Some even mandate the number of meetings members MUST attend.

Non-abusive leaders do not discourage members from reading information critical about the group. Abusive leaders often control negative information about the group by either discrediting it or by dissuading members not to read it.
Non-abusive leaders do not judge your hearts, but they leave that to God. Abusive leaders constantly judge hearts, motives, and intents. They basically assume -- rather, usurp -- the place of God.

[earnestseeker]

Dear Rose Creek Village and especially Noah, Haviy and Hashachar....sorry I called you vulgar obscene names in my previous post a few days ago...I felt bad about that today. You may be "off" and you may abuse your spiritual authority but that is between you and God. God makes the sun to shine on us all. Now I must get back to my life and my recovery....God is blessing us greatly so you can stop praying any prayers that He would make us suffer to bring us back. We are doing great.

[earnestseeker]

I must not look to any person or group for answers to my emotional, spiritual or social problems. I can seek advice and counsel and some help but I do not need to give anyone too much power. God is helping me....I am going to gain more and more emotional and financial stability; I am going to provide for my children as best I can and I will enjoy my precious husband until he or I leaves this earth. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
I cannot change RCV nor how they have treated me or others. I can forgive them and learn from the good things that I learned there, and leave the rest. I can pray for them and appeal to them to seek God. I can control my life. I choose to be happy and I am grateful today. Praise God for all the blessings he is sending our way through wonderful loving people. God's mercies are new every morning. Peace Out.

[earnestseeker]

Dear Cyberspace fellows....I was just reading this post sent to me a few months ago...I am not so whatever to call someone the Antichrist, but I thought this was an interesting set of points.....dealing with those christians who view themselves as having "special" knowledge, "special" calling....so special that if you question them or don't understand them, well you are just not "special" anymore or just spiritually dumb.....definitely not worthy of any special fellowship with these "special" people.

I have learned so much from my experiences.....I don't think I will ever fall for this superstar christian leadership thing.....the enthusiasm and sincerity at RCV is definitely invigorating......the puffed up spiritual abuse of Noah, Chashaq and other cocky great leaders is not so fruitful.

Sometimes you find christ in the lowly and not so shiny, not so reportedly great and special christianity....

Well hope you find the following post enlightening....
Peace to all....God's love to all....may we remember who our real enemy is...God loves me, God loves you, God loves Rose Creek Village and the whole world. There is hope for us one and all through our precious, kind, loving and forgiving God.


http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/images/icons/icon1.gif Knowledge Pride
"...so frustrating that people like that think they have so much truth and they don't." earnestseeker

This is the heart and soul of so much bad ministering being preached as truth for all to obey, and yet is not written that way, or not at all.

Every believer in Jesus as the Christ has the same Truth, Spirit, and anointing of God born in their hearts for salvation, forgiveness, and deliverance from sins and the good power to live a godly life. (1 John 2:18-27)

All cultish leaders have the special mark of presenting their gospel and thus themselves as special, better than, having more than the average truth of Christ out there in the Christian realm. And so they tag themselves with special names, such as apostolic, fundementalist, full-gospel, holiness, etc...

And the reason they are so special and have so much more than the average Christian bear out there, is because they are ADDING their own special, super-duper, really-right, and higher-holiness personal standards to Christian living and services to Jesus' church.

You see, the antichrists John warns us of are not necessarily the ones we were warned of by our great Leaders- those who 'compromise' the gospel for lasciviousness' sake-, but rather the real antichrists even more destructive to good Christian living and fellowship, are they who have gone out from among us who commonly follow the same doctrine of the apsotles, as it is already written, so that they might begin to declare an additional doctrine of Christ's that they really believe ought to have been written, or at least has been left up to themselves from God to fill in what was not.

Thus we have the FULL-Gospel of extra (special) things vs. the normal one that we can all plainly read in Scripture for ourselves!

By the pride of their own minds, they don't want to be just a Christian, nor just a minister: i.e. not just like everyone else believing in Jesus and ministering just what is written for all believers to know and follow.

But rather these really special and superior kind of Christians and ministers have so much truth in themselves that everone else just has to follow as well, or else... They just aren't satisfied with the same rule of Christ already written for us all, and therefore just can't allow themselves, nor anyone else, to live and let live by personal faith in those things that are not written (!)

They are driven by the same pride of Lucifer, who first wanted to be God Himself over the creation, rather than just another minister of the Creator's Word to His own creatures. Thus he went about raising himself up above the rest with God personally by going about establishing his own personal righteousness as The really right righteousness of God for the rest to personally follow.

And so it is with every such Lucifer-, Nimrod-, Ananias-, Diotrephes-, and Davis-type since: Their unwritten righteousnesses are special to themselves who thus go about making special Christian groups to themselves who thus are not to intermingle and fellowship with the rest of the low-born, average, compromising types of believers out there, who simply minister what is actually written and leaves the rest of the stuff for the believers to work out for themselves with God in their own Christian lives by Jesus' faith.

'Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him.' (1 Cor 8:1-3)

Idolatry among Christians begins when certain so-called big & bad Leadership-types get so puffed up in their own minds about what is really right for all believers to do- THOUGH IT IS NOT WRITTEN AS SUCH- that they begin to despise and rise above the charity that simply ministers the Scriptures only, and then allows every man to freely love God therein.

The only thing we KNOW about God and His life is what is written. All the rest of the stuff is what we think we know about God and Christian living, which is perfectly fine for each believer in his own life of faith, but becomes completely bad and devilish if ministered as the Truth of God in Christ Jesus for others as well.

After all, what is more True and Good and Right than the faith of Jesus for forgiveness of sins, and the communion of the Spirit for living within the same rule of Scripture and for fellowshipping among the common body of Christ?

Antichrists are more True and Good and Right than that... they are really special, you see? As a matter of fact, they are so special, that even God and Jesus can't hold a Scriptural candle to them, because they are Righter, Holier, and Brighter than that (!) (So, how much less shall we be able to reprove and correct them? So, we just warn others of them... just like John did.)

[earnestseeker]

Hello again dear cyberspace buddies....
Life is great here in my world...hope yours is great as well.....I am learning to be more and more happy.....I have a new and very difficult job but I am taking it one day at a time....I have enjoyed my kids today....they loved the party we threw tonight. I enjoyed working out at the Y with my hubby and then going to pet our horse.

I thought again about Noah and Haviy and Rose Creek Village....almost had the courage to visit their website.....then I felt love, hate, hurt, rejection, jealously, like an outcast, hopeless, mad, .....all these emotions.....but I know I am on the path to healing....it will just take time. I have to be patient.
I can at least now separate "the village" and God Himself. I know God Himself is with me and that He does not reject me. My twelve step program is a great sense of comfort to me and a source of support....I have not been in a few days to a twelve step meeting but just knowing that they are there if I need them is comforting.

Well a word of encouragement to my fellow Americans....I know our society is so busy, so competitive, so demanding, so fragmented....it can be hard to find intimacy and friendship.....who has the time?
But I do wish love, mercy, kindness, forgiveness and truth to all reading this post.
May love and friendship and a little bit of fun be yours.
God Bless you all....and thanks for giving me a place to voice my feelings and opinions
Love,
Bethany

[earnestseeker]

Life after Rose Creek Village.....

Dear cyberspace friends.....I am finally feeling a bit settled in our life "after the village"....I feel at peace with God even though I'm not going to church....and I have found new strength and help in the age-old twelve step program. I am enjoying my kids more and more and learning more and more how to be happy. I have the greatest hubby in the world and my mother is still alive, though very disabled.

My new job is very difficult but I feel myself growing into a new level of coping with the madness....not that I will be perfect....I'm sure a few cuss words will still fall from my mouth in the midst of the stress but I will hopefully not let my emotions nor the stresses around me totally overtake me.
Finding peace in the midst of the storm. Remembering God is with me every minute.

God has blessed us. I am still healing from my experiences at the village and still struggling to understand it all.....but I am more at peace than before. so it is just a matter of time. So weird to be rejected by "christian" people for what? loss of temper? a cuss word? lustful thoughts? and then to ask for help such as counseling and to be denied this?
None of this makes sense to me.

Just "christian meanness", I guess. and gross insensitivity and depersonalization in pursuit of "the great calling"....like "losing sight of the forest for all the trees" I think the saying goes.

Anyway I must strive to love and still forgive.....to love and somehow let go of what was and what might have been.....to embrace the love that is here in the here and now. ....and to accept what never was.....what was just a figment of imagination.

God does not fit into any of man's little boxes. He is everywhere. Omnipotent I think the word is.

Maybe God used the village to "open me up"...to help me see inside myself so I could begin to face myself and to grow out of things....to accept a purity as a way of life and to learn more of parenting.....
to be touched by other human beings and thus become more human.

The isolation and emotional distancing that is so easy to accept as "normal" in our modern life is not healthy for human beings. Human beings need to connect with other human beings.

Anyway...thanks again for giving me a sounding board for my thoughts....would love to hear feedback from my cyberspace audience....

Peace and Love, Mercy and Forgiveness.....God makes his Sunshine to shine on us all....I am especially aware of His sunshine living in Arizona....oh, how I love living in Arizona....I am living in a very interesting place.....
the Y around the corner....horse stables just ten minutes away....a good school for my children just a mile away.....a nice swimming pool just behind our condo with beautiful grass and trees (trees are not to be taken for granted in Arizona and we have some big ones right here on our condo complex).....and everything else such as grocery stores and health food stores close by. Even an awesome library close by.

Thank God for all of His wonderful blessings.

Now to find a twelve step meeting! Have not been in a week! You have to work at recovery...because your addiction never takes a break!
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Peace Out,
Bethany the Earnestseeker

[earnestseeker]

Dear Rose Creek Village

Gosh I love you guys!! I think of you every day.....so sad you won't be my friend anymore.
I did try my best. I am pretty messed up. I am going to Sex Addicts Anonymous and this twelve step group is helping me quite a bit.

As a group....the SAs (I don't like the word that much)...well it seems that we are a very insecure, fearful group of people who don't know how to have healthy intimacy with others....a rather lonely group with generally very low self-worth and low self-esteem...just a lack of a lot of things inside of us....causes us to want to act out to try to get something from outside of ourselves.

So anyway I do love you all.....even the leaders Noah, Chashaq, Tabach, Teshuva....some of the rather dominating men that I have not liked at times....

I don't know that you are correct in some things but you have some truth...probably just as much as a lot of other groups.....and I know a lot of you are sincere.

I apologize if any of my writings have hurt anyone. I am working on becoming more loving....I think I am beginning to walk in a new level of light....

Anyway I just want to say to the whole village that I love you all and I do thank you for the good things I learned. I am messed up...especially when it comes to building friendships....I am very insecure.....look to others to help define who I am....get confused as to whether people love me or not, etc.

Well I hope you find more of God and hope all your children are well.

Keep up the good work....

Bethany

[earnestseeker]

Peeling the Onion.....
As I root the lust and cynicism and whatever else.....what is left but a wounded child?
It takes great courage to leave behind my clothes of steel....well-rehearsed super-cool defenses and to dare to be human again.
At one point in my life I successfully became nonhuman....avoiding painful human emotion....becoming super grown up so I could be super successful.

Now to become a child again....to face the pain I have been running from.

But it does not hurt all the time.....there is the other side of being human ....the other side of emotion.....the ability to feel love....the ability to connect with another human being, even in passing.

I used to smile at everyone....trying to project what they wanted to see. Not a super bad thing but now I think I am smiling less but connecting with people nonetheless...looking into their eyes and seeing what is there and letting them see me, too.

Such a journey this life is.......
My twelve step program is revealing so much to me. At forty and with two bachelor's degrees you often think you have seen it all......

Anyway....sorry this has nothing to do with RCV......I should start another thread titled "recovery from mental illness in the context of faith in God".
I guess I need another forum.

Thanks for reading....love and peace to the readers out there.....

God's love is so big....so much bigger than our opinions, our biases, our theories, etc.

I like to stay out of the deep theological and see if I can just love people....give to people....I guess I like the Catholics that way.....they do a lot of giving to people.

I look forward to having the privelege of giving to a missionary friend in India...they are going through so much over there in India.

bye bye

[earnestseeker]

In my group of Sex Addicts Anonymous.....we are a pathetic group....we come together to practice being human.....we learned the physical language of love before we learned the other languages of love. I think our greatest service to one another is just sitting there looking into each other's eyes, practicing just talking. Practicing sharing our feelings, ideas, hurts and healing from the nonjudgemental eyes and ears that lovingly and respectfully listen.
We learn by looking across the circle at another human being a few feet away and seeing a reflection of ourselves.
The great challenge in our digital age is to continue looking into each other's eyes...continuing to share feelings, thoughts.....continuing to be human.
How sad our society is often reduced to a list of tasks....communication only about the physical......
I hope i can return home from my work tommorow and connect with my sons....I am challenged to connect with them emotionally......God, I see something lacking in my eight year old son.....how do I give him what he needs? My best solution seems to be "going out on mommy-son "dates"....just me and him.....he is so competitive and jealous.....if little brother is around, the whole dynamics of the situation is changed.

I hope I can give him what he needs. And the little one, too.

And God bless my husband....he seems to not need much emotionally....which is good.....I seem handicapped when it comes to connecting on an emotional level....we both could live emotionally distant and feel perfectly comfortable....as if everything was perfectly normal.
and then my mother....God...she has a lot of mental and emotional health issues.
I hope she gets the help she has needed for decades before she dies ....to learn to live a stable, healthy, happy life and to give and recieve love.
I definitely see a person there who needs mental emotional healing and needs to learn to live healthy.
It is a great journey. I am grateful I am a sex addict....I have learned a lot and now I have this wonderful twelve step meeting and I get to know these wonderful men on a new level......more intimate than any one-night stand.

Peace Out

[earnestseeker]

Rethinking RCV....
Lately I have been thinking very loving thoughts about Rose Creek Village. As I get the help I need from God and Sex Addicts Anonymous ....as I feel more stable and love inside myself......able to love myself............then I can see others in a better light.
So RCV is not the best at helping this person with some mental illness....I think they call in "Borderline Personality Disorder"....whatever it is ....I think it boils down to I am very immature on some levels....socially, emotionally.....there are some things in life you just cannot learn without relationship with others.

Anyway.....so I wanted to love and develop relationships there, but did not have the maturity that someone my age should have. So people are looking at a thirty nine year old person and thinking they are thirty nine....and really they are?....fifteen?

And then when I feel afraid or threatened or angry.....well I do not always act well....or I let things build up and then BOOM!!! And I am so good at saying things to push other people's buttons when I am out of control blowing up.

So they are not that good in dealing with my emotional problems.....they are heavy handed with some of their leadership and need to respect and listen to people more.

But they do seem to be trying to live a godly life.....they do a lot of godly things and have a lot of godly people there. Are they a cult?

I don't know. I am trying to build a relationship with Noah Taylor to better understand him.....he seems hard to reach on a really personal level. Trying to get past the big leader persona to see who is there. Definitely very defensive but then so am I. This is definitely a group that has been "picked on" by the outside world....so this may explain some of their heavy defenses.

But I have some heavy defenses myself. It can keep you safe sometimes.....

Anyway....I am not so whatever to think I can live at Rose Creek Village...but I would like to be their friend and to visit.....because I do love them.....
As I felt secure and love within myself today I was able to look back and remember so many good things and good people there.

But I don't think I can live there. I am not into going nuts over housework almost 24/7....I am independent....I don't need someone to tell me what to do with all my time.....and I need perhaps a little more respect than what is often given at RCV.

so I guess I'm not humble enough and subservient enough to do the fulltime RCV life!! I am a woman but I do better working and nursing is a ministry.....and sometimes I just need some "space" to keep my sanity and to work things out inside myself.

So anyway.....my final judgement on RCV? I don't want to be their judge......
God can do that. All I know is that I love them and that God puts love in our hearts...and I'm sure they loved me too in their own way and in the middle of this is a lot of miscommunication or whatever.

So if I can mend fences....forgive and receive forgiveness....then we will go back and visit and be friends with this community......If you want to live here.....just visit first....make sure you know that you can do this.

Anyway....good night cyberspace friends....
God loves me, you and everyone on this planet......
Peace Out

[bramble]

Hi! Go to the CFCMI thread and read, "How to Spot an Abuser" It is really eye opening.

God Bless!

[bramble]

Rethinking RCV....
Lately I have been thinking very loving thoughts about Rose Creek Village. As I get the help I need from God and Sex Addicts Anonymous ....as I feel more stable and love inside myself......able to love myself............then I can see others in a better light.
So RCV is not the best at helping this person with some mental illness....I think they call in "Borderline Personality Disorder"....whatever it is ....I think it boils down to I am very immature on some levels....socially, emotionally.....there are some things in life you just cannot learn without relationship with others.

Anyway.....so I wanted to love and develop relationships there, but did not have the maturity that someone my age should have. So people are looking at a thirty nine year old person and thinking they are thirty nine....and really they are?....fifteen?

And then when I feel afraid or threatened or angry.....well I do not always act well....or I let things build up and then BOOM!!! And I am so good at saying things to push other people's buttons when I am out of control blowing up.

So they are not that good in dealing with my emotional problems.....they are heavy handed with some of their leadership and need to respect and listen to people more.

But they do seem to be trying to live a godly life.....they do a lot of godly things and have a lot of godly people there. Are they a cult?

I don't know. I am trying to build a relationship with Noah Taylor to better understand him.....he seems hard to reach on a really personal level. Trying to get past the big leader persona to see who is there. Definitely very defensive but then so am I. This is definitely a group that has been "picked on" by the outside world....so this may explain some of their heavy defenses.

But I have some heavy defenses myself. It can keep you safe sometimes.....

Anyway....I am not so whatever to think I can live at Rose Creek Village...but I would like to be their friend and to visit.....because I do love them.....
As I felt secure and love within myself today I was able to look back and remember so many good things and good people there.

But I don't think I can live there. I am not into going nuts over housework almost 24/7....I am independent....I don't need someone to tell me what to do with all my time.....and I need perhaps a little more respect than what is often given at RCV.

so I guess I'm not humble enough and subservient enough to do the fulltime RCV life!! I am a woman but I do better working and nursing is a ministry.....and sometimes I just need some "space" to keep my sanity and to work things out inside myself.

So anyway.....my final judgement on RCV? I don't want to be their judge......
God can do that. All I know is that I love them and that God puts love in our hearts...and I'm sure they loved me too in their own way and in the middle of this is a lot of miscommunication or whatever.

So if I can mend fences....forgive and receive forgiveness....then we will go back and visit and be friends with this community......If you want to live here.....just visit first....make sure you know that you can do this.

Anyway....good night cyberspace friends....
God loves me, you and everyone on this planet......
Peace Out


Remember you are very new in your recovery. Although I cannot council you I hope you will find someone who can. It sounds like withdrawl to me. Like they say in AA you need a geographical separation from these people--FOREVER!! Keep on praying for them. Just don't let them hurt you. You're better than that!!

Happy New Year!