CFC Observations:

[Hostile Duty]

After reviewing the newest photos I now have some confusion over the CFC definition of "fellowship"... I am led to believe that "fellowship" means to eat or work with other christians?

Also, I note that during the annual CFC Mother's Day Services the same "first ladies" are lifted up to the congregation and all are expected to pay tribute. Why is this? This sure does not correlate to the example of Jesus and his ministry. One would think that all women of CFC would be honored EQUALLY, with none above the other... instead of the yearly tribute offering to Hazel, Pam and Debbie.

[bramble]

After reviewing the newest photos I now have some confusion over the CFC definition of "fellowship"... I am led to believe that "fellowship" means to eat or work with other christians? But only if they are in CFCMI as there is no other valid Church in the world. (ITO)

Also, I note that during the annual CFC Mother's Day Services the same "first ladies" are lifted up to the congregation and all are expected to pay tribute. Why is this? This sure does not correlate to the example of Jesus and his ministry. One would think that all women of CFC would be honored EQUALLY, with none above the other... instead of the yearly tribute offering to Hazel, Pam and Debbie.

The First Family sure puts their own on a pedestal. I can't see any of L. R. Davis kin as being the Mother of the Year. Can you?

Our Church honors ALL mothers on Mothers' Day! The pastor even gave them a special blessing as one would expect.

Do you think anyone in the pictures posted today looks particularly sad, bored, jaded etc. ?

[turningjapanese]

Again, I ask WHAT ABOUT the MOTHERS of the boys LR molested...What about the MOTHERS of the sailors that were discouraged from visiting home on leave, to be "available" to mop church floors??? No mention of them....

And Hazel, who KNEW of all LR's perverted "activities", and did NOTHING to stop it, gets a big pot of FLOWERS...

They all lack human decency, and it's disgusting.

[bramble]

Again, I ask WHAT ABOUT the MOTHERS of the boys LR molested...What about the MOTHERS of the sailors that were discouraged from visiting home on leave, to be "available" to mop church floors??? No mention of them....

And Hazel, who KNEW of all LR's perverted "activities", and did NOTHING to stop it, gets a big pot of FLOWERS...

They all lack human decency, and it's disgusting.

Think of it these guys probably didn't even call their mothers on Mothers' Day! They were too busy cleaning and painting their new 'church'. Any mother would be heartbroken if her son joined CFCMI or any other such cult.

[John Cady]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_Father_Divine

Much of Father Divine's teachings are similar to CFCMI. Look at his group now...they are almost extinct.

[bramble]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_Father_Divine

Much of Father Divine's teachings are similar to CFCMI. Look at his group now...they are almost extinct. I hope so! How many are left? I wonder!

I also found this link on that same page www.libertynet.org/fdipmm (http://www.libertynet.org/fdipmm). It links to a picture of Father and Mother Divine. I wonder if they have any successors. Could their church be a museum? It looks to be of that same period.

Shakers remind me the most of CFC--men's dorms, ladies' dorms. No marriage. No children. No Shakers! Cool furniture if you can find it. It would win you a free trip to The Antiques Roadshow. Are they still on?

[John Cady]

I hope so! How many are left? I wonder!

I also found this link on that same page www.libertynet.org/fdipmm (http://www.libertynet.org/fdipmm). It links to a picture of Father and Mother Divine. I wonder if they have any successors. Could their church be a museum? It looks to be of that same period.

Shakers remind me the most of CFC--men's dorms, ladies' dorms. No marriage. No children. No Shakers! Cool furniture if you can find it. It would win you a free trip to The Antiques Roadshow. Are they still on?
Father Divine was married twice. The first Mother Divine died in 1943, leaving no children. His second wife, whom he married in the late 1940s, also had no children. She is now 88 and lives in Pennsylvania. Father Divine never consummated either marriage, in accordance to his own teachings.

Any surviving members of the church from Father Divine's era are now old, and will soon die off due to no offspring.

[bramble]

Father Divine was married twice. The first Mother Divine died in 1943, leaving no children. His second wife, whom he married in the late 1940s, also had no children. She is now 88 and lives in Pennsylvania. Father Divine never consummated either marriage, in accordance to his own teachings.

Any surviving members of the church from Father Divine's era are now old, and will soon die off due to no offspring.


Interesting sect, John. No children? At least the leaders followed their own rules!

I can imagine little old ladies going there on vacation to admire the pretty gardens and church. Sounds a little like the Shakers in a way, but less austere.

[turningjapanese]

Probably not a Lexus, Mercedes or Harley in sight.

[turningjapanese]

I was wondering why CFC is not posting their nonsensical "sermons" as of late. Their insulting "Mother's Day" sermon is still up; was thinking they'd match that with something just as aimless for Father's Day. Even though they'd be preaching to many self-avowed "bachelors," I thought they might use the opportunity to publicly proclaim what "model Dads" they are. Or maybe Bruce gave the spiel, while Ed and Pete took the day off and rode the Harleys. Anybody know?

[John Cady]

I do not have an explanation as to why no audio/video sermons have been posted. There haven't been any since March.

The transcripts were posted on http://www.pillars.net, which is a private site owned by a CFCMI member. He is one of the single men, and either he has been tasked with other duties or, by his own admission, has procrastinated in posting them.

[John Cady]

I can imagine little old ladies going there on vacation to admire the pretty gardens and church. Sounds a little like the Shakers in a way, but less austere.
Father Divine's properties have been listed as historical landmarks, especially the one in Pennsylvania. Despite his odd beliefs, Father Divine invited his followers to his houses for dinners and other events.

Since most of them did not reproduce, the followers of Father Divine will eventually die off and the buildings will be monuments of a colorful era.

CFCMI chose to pick the bottom of the real estate barrel, and their final building is a monument to their quixotic thinking.

[turningjapanese]

When I hear "monument", I think of a gravestone.

How's that for an appropriate "monument."

[turningjapanese]

Speaking of real estate, I don't know if the Waukegan building is sold or not, but I feel it should be demolished. Out of respect for all those who were raped, lied to and deceived there, the whole thing should be leveled.

CFCMI=Church Founded on Child Molesting Intentions

[bramble]

I do not have an explanation as to why no audio/video sermons have been posted. There haven't been any since March.

The transcripts were posted on http://www.pillars.net, which is a private site owned by a CFCMI member. He is one of the single men, and either he has been tasked with other duties or, by his own admission, has procrastinated in posting them.

Do you suppose Vincent is still in CFC?

[bramble]

Father Divine's properties have been listed as historical landmarks, especially the one in Pennsylvania. Despite his odd beliefs, Father Divine invited his followers to his houses for dinners and other events.

Since most of them did not reproduce, the followers of Father Divine will eventually die off and the buildings will be monuments of a colorful era.

CFCMI chose to pick the bottom of the real estate barrel, and their final building is a monument to their quixotic thinking.

All that is missing is the windmill. Maybe they should build one their playground to practice jousting. :D

And...I don't think that stores or abandoned Boys' Girls' Clubs are exactly reverent enough to be houses of worship. Moreover, in reading the Pillars site, I don't read much about God in their sermons. Ed likes to brag about his stuff.

And...Their song titles don't sound much like they are exactly praising God. They seem sort of secular. What do you all think?

[bramble]

Has CFC historically endorsed Democrats, Republicans or specific politicians? I now a real Church wishing to keep its tax exempt status may give out voters' guides based on moral principals, but they must not endorse a specific candidate by name.

Has anyone in CFC leadership ever allied himself with any specific politician or party? Does anyone think they would endorse anyone at this time?

[bramble]

Isn't it interesting how CFCMI never posted any pictures of any of their Christmas festvities!! Have they finally broken up for good?

Both activities and numbers seem rather sparse there these days there. I hope I am right in my observations.

Also how come I can post on certain threads, but no on others?

[turningjapanese]

I'm having that problem too, Bramble!!!

I tried to post on the Crock of BS thread, but could not at this time.

Oh, well....

Since this is the CFCMI Observations thread, it is my observation that CFC IS a Crock of BS and their sermons are meaningless scrambled re-hash.

When it comes to "preachin'", their lack of effort shows. The only thing they care about is counting what is in the offering plate....which, hopefully, isn't too much!

[turningjapanese]

Oh, yeah....

I also "observed" that CFC was soliciting for Christmas decorations.

What the heck? Why wouldn't a CHURCH have their own Christmas decorations?? Come on!!! LOL! They can outfit the "Pastor's Suite" with nice office furniture, but they can't spend 50 bucks for new Christmas decorations?

As for their Cultie Christmas Jingle Bash, why WOULD they post pictures? All you'll see is a bunch of ex-Navy dudes in a smelly gymnasium drooling over cheese trays from the Salvation Army. Because with Paine/Thomas Industries sponsoring the "party", you're not gonna see anything decent or respectable, unless they are trying to impress someone. And I DOUBT they had any new "visitors" to impress.

[John Cady]

When I was there, the single-menz Christmas party was at times somewhat amusing. We would sometimes eat pretty decent food - better than the typical Sunday fare - and play some games and watch movies. We also would participate in a gift exchange; the target was to spend less than $20 (what the civilian men would keep per week); some guys, usually Navy, would bring gifts from family members to open in front of everyone. The intent for the Navy guys was to be in an extended family; however, some of the civilians might have been offended and never said anything.

My favorite part of the festivities was when Robert Woods played "Ghetto Claus" until he got married.

Sadly, I doubt if this is even a bright spot for the guys now.

[bramble]

When I was there, the single-menz Christmas party was at times somewhat amusing. We would sometimes eat pretty decent food - better than the typical Sunday fare - and play some games and watch movies. We also would participate in a gift exchange; the target was to spend less than $20 (what the civilian men would keep per week); some guys, usually Navy, would bring gifts from family members to open in front of everyone. The intent for the Navy guys was to be in an extended family; however, some of the civilians might have been offended and never said anything.

My favorite part of the festivities was when Robert Woods played "Ghetto Claus" until he got married.

Sadly, I doubt if this is even a bright spot for the guys now.

More and more the entire thing is unraveling.

As far as their meals go it seems to be: bread, corn bread dressing, cole slaw and---is there any meat?

Ghetto Claus sounds funny! Some of there housing seems to be in a ghetto, anyway! LOL

Their sermon from Christmas Eve sounds trite and shallow. Ed has some guy opening up boxes with real or imagined gift cards inside. It sounds more like Deal or No Deal or Let's Make a Deal. They get up to the One billion dollar mark. A Christmas service it is not. I am sorry to say there aren't any Bible readings. Ironic, for a supposed Bible Church.

[turningjapanese]

They should cancel the 'church' idea and re-open as an "Old Boyz" Club. That is what they need!

From the looks of it, the hallways seem handi-cap accessible--room for wheelchairs and walkers. Maybe they could turn the "pool" into one of those "hot baths"---name it the LR DAVIS RELAXATION ROOM. Deb, Pam and Hazel can whip up endless batches of gruel, lime jello and kool-aid in the kitchen.

And Pete and Dan and the rest can ride by on their Harleys and deliver denture cream and suppositories to the impoverished residents.

They can call it the Senior Yoonick Service Center.

That would be pretty cool.

[bramble]

Traditionally, department stores celebrate Christmas from the day after Thanksgiving until December 26. (nowdays stores sell Christmas merchandise starting in October) CFCMI, if you read the Pillars site, celebrates Christmas from the day after Thanksgiving until December 26 as well.

For most Churches, Christmas Eve starts Christmas. December 26 is only the second day of Christmas. This coming Sunday will be the second Sunday of Christmas. Christmas has at least 12 days. The official last day of this Christmas is actually Sunday, January 11, 2009.

One wonders how much CFCMi is focused on Christ if they start to celebrate early, then quickly abandon, this holyday the same time merchants do. To me, it sounds more like living in the flesh than living in the Spirit.

[turningjapanese]

Hey, CFC IS a LOT like department stores...trying to get as much money as they can by "selling" crap. And by crap, I mean their sermons. You'd have to be brainwashed, or missing a few screws, to listen to the garbage that Ed spews! LOL! What a freak.

[bramble]

Hey, CFC IS a LOT like department stores...trying to get as much money as they can by "selling" crap. And by crap, I mean their sermons. You'd have to be brainwashed, or missing a few screws, to listen to the garbage that Ed spews! LOL! What a freak.

You have a point there!

I think being overworked and underpaid is what will eventually take its toll. Either they will leave by choice or by attrition, once they can no longer walk, or work, they will find themselves on the street and relying on the kindness of strangers, outsiders and earlier walkouts.

[bramble]

I couldn't help noticing the party pictures on the CFCMI site. The single men at the Christmas party remind me of a bunch of children at a Ship Christmas party, or possibly one held for underprivileged children. The tree has few decorations. It doesn't show what anyone got for a gift. It just shows single men with wrapped packages. I can't be sure that all the single men even attended.

The New Year's party seems even more sorry. The have this backdrop for posing for pictures, presumably with one's date or spouse. There are so few couples in CFCMI, that its existence isn't really necessary. The light are low as if it were a dance. I see most of single men dressed up, no date, no place to go. How bleak!! :(

[turningjapanese]

Ed sure has one BIG family!

Those parties look LAME.

[bramble]

Sunday Morning Service, 1/18/09

Songs



This Is Your House
Made Me Glad
We Want To See Jesus Lifted High
Every Day
My Chains Are Gone
The Blood
God Is Working
Gimme-Gimme---

Can this last one be a real hymn?
Introduction

Pastor Thomas
If slavery is wrong, why do you sell yourself so cheaply into Satan's slavery? For a moment's pleasure, you sell yourself. We truly are fighting a battle. Church has become such a lame puppy. It's a dog that can't hunt. What good is a hunting dog that can't hunt? It poops in the house, eats your food, and doesn't listen to what you say. It's no good.So is CFCMI congregation in slavery to Satan or to their own leadership. Was LR in slavery to Satan? He had many moments of pleasure. :eek:

As far as lame puppies go, Jesus loves just as we are, warts and all. It is because were are His, not for anything we do. Everything in CFCMI is conditional.


Message: Stewardship Part 3: Why is Lordship Necessary?

Pastor Thomas
We are in the third Sunday of our Stewardship series.
Last week we learned the first two laws of Lordship:


If God isn't Lord of all, he isn't Lord at all.
If you can't trust the Lord with all, you can't trust him at all.

Lordship settles three issues in life:


The permission issue
The position issue.
The profession issue.

Serving God is more than going to church. Lordship means surrender. I like watching the History channel. My wife doesn't like it; she keeps saying, "If you know who wins, why are you watching?" When you surrender, you do so with hands raised, and that's the same way you come to Jesus.
Will, if Celly brings some strange guy over to the house, and they're hanging out, talking and laughing, how would you feel? Jealous
What would be the first thing you would do? I'd escort him outside.
We won't talk about what the second and third thing would be. Celly, if you caught Will in the same situation, how would you feel? I'd be very irate. And the remote goes to... Guess who the real General Pastor is?

If you won't put up with that kind of behavior in your spouse, what makes you think that God will put up with it in you? God wants a rock-solid marriage in you, one that will last until the Lord comes.
Luke 6:46I wonder what the point is here. Shouldn't people be allowed to have friends of the opposite sex? Is he talking about cheating? HOW IRONIC! Singling people out is unprofessional.




And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


There are two people who are surprised at Jesus' saying. The first one is the Lord himself. Jesus Christ is amazed when you say "Lord, Lord" and don't do what he's called you to do. You use ungodly language, dress ungodly, and act ungodly. Yet you show up in church and say "Lord, Lord."
We had an individual who was hanging around in church. He was mentally unstable, and we sent him on his way, but before he left, he used to go to little boys and girls and call them his sons and daughters. What does this say about the real parents? What would people think?
When you say "Lord, Lord" and you're living in sin, you send the same message. You say "This is my heavenly father," yet you're obeying somebody else.
When you say "Lord, Lord," God is surprised. "You're not my child; get a clue! You might visit my house once a week, but you're not my child. Never have been." UnGodly--well is he talking about immodest dress, vanity, visiting tanning booths, what about temper tantrums, gossip? The point is we must be good not just appear good.

They kicked out a mentally unstable person because they thought he was a threat to the children?---Was he a relative? Why didn't they try to get him help?





Three steps to Lordship

Luke 6:47


Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:




Come to the Lord
Hear his words
Do his words

The key to being a Christian is doing, not belonging. It's doing, not going. Lordship is about profession.
Who does heaven belong to? God. It is his right to let you in or not. If you've got somebody knocking on your door, trying to sell something, and you don't what to hear it, what do you do? You shut the door, don't you?
We had this saleslady try to put her foot in the door one day. Pam told her to remove her foot or lose it, because the door was going to close either way.
If you love the Lord, why don't you do what he says? Why don't you clean up your conversation? Anybody can use profanity, but it takes an educated and self-controlled person to express just how dissatisfied they are without using one word of vulgarity. Some people try to cheat by using words that sound like vulgarity, but the Bible says:
1 Thessalonians 5:22 The above teaching becomes a mantra within CFCMI. It is repeated 3 to 4 times in this sermon.

Christian ladies don't say, "Move it or lose it" then slam the door on the foot of a sales lady. Salesmen don't come door to door often. They are usually children or culties.




Abstain from all appearance of evil.


You should use a vocabulary that is as far removed from Satan's as possible. My vocabulary when I came back from Vietnam was so bad that my Mom couldn't stand to be in the same room with me. But as many of you have proved, it is possible to be in the military with a clean vocabulary.
The other ones surprised by the passage in Luke 6:46 will be those who think they know God knows him because they have professed him as Lord.
Matthew 7:21 Being Godly can also mean being truthful. There is no such thing as a Holy Lie. Satan is the father of lies. How about coming clean on the hidden sin.



Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Obeying God is done in the secret places of your life. Obeying God is done when you're at work all alone and nobody else is listening. Helping your neighbors, volunteering in the community, and helping out at church are good works. You can do a lot of good works and not be obedient unto God.
Matthew 7:13-14 Obeying Godly people is important. Obeying thieves, drug dealers, embezzler, etc. is sin--plain and simple.Time to open those accounting books! We must obey God even if it means leaving a particular organization, CFCMI, for instance.

They shall know us by the fruits we bear. Good works is part of it too. When we help the least of our bretheren we are helping Jesus. Remember the sheep and the goats. The goats didn't ever help others in need. Are Ed and Pete goats or sheep?



Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus says, "I am the gate". No one goes to the Father but through Him. I think CFCMI is the broad way.

Why do we want to spend our time as far away from Godliness as we can? Why do we want to spend our time pretending that everyone else is okay? You can't just believe and be saved.
James 2:19


Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

It is rather presumptious to think that CFCMI is saved and that associating with outsiders is somehow polluting their walk with Christ.

What would our community be like if the fifty million people across America would live Lordship every day? What would it be like the fifty million professing Christians actually lived it? I read a book about the one hundred most influential people in the world, and Mohammad beat out Jesus Christ. The author explained that as a Christian, he wanted to place Jesus first. But he had to admit that Mohammad's followers did what he said far more often than Jesus' followers did. Are you going to be one of those who give Christianity a bad name?He is saying that he wishes that 50 million lived as he sees fit and what he perceives as holy. Then, CFCMI would be the Universal Church. It is indeed a stretch to say that CFCMI is the Early Church and the only "saved" Church. Other Christians are indeed living out their faith even if they never met someone from CFCMI.

Three truths

Matthew 7:21-23


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




Saying the right words will not get you into heaven.
Doing good works will not get you into heaven.
Obeying God's will, will get you into heaven.

Again the mantra--mind control--brain washing. I see a contorted message emerging. He just got through saying that speech must be Godly, now he says that saying the right words will not save us.

Where is it written that we are saved by obedience alone. Obedience to who? Ed Thomas? Pete Paine? Dan Lantis? LR Davis? other CFC pastors?




So it's not what I say, not what I do, but it's my obedience that makes the difference.
What's the difference between "doing" and "obeying"? How many parents have told their children to apologize to one another? You know what I'm talking about. You probably went to you brother or sister and said, "Sorry!" But it's not the words; it's the emotion behind those words that makes the difference. You can do all the right things for the wrong reasons. Many in the church can sing the right songs, say the right words, but they've not settled the Lordship issue in their lives. They've not truly surrendered. All you have to do is spend a day with them, and you can tell. You can tell by their actions whether they've truly surrendered or not. You can keep everybody out of your life and get away with it, but you can't keep God's all-seeing eye out of your life, and that's the only one that matters.
Three types of Christians



Those who neither call him "Lord" nor do the things he says.
Those who call him "Lord" but do not do the things he says.
Those who call him "Lord" and do the things he says.

Again the repeated message! In the end we must obey God, not man! CFCMI doesn't follow God. They worship LR Davis. This is soooo obvious now that they named that field after him.


What group are you in?
Matthew 7:24-27


Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Peter is the rock Jesus speaks of. Maybe Jesus was talking about the right type of Church to be with. CFCMI is clearly the house onshifting sands in this parable, and groups like them. Look how they lost three fellowships in two months!!

What was the basic difference between these two men? They both heard the word of the Lord, but only one obeyed. God must be obeyed in every area of our life. Most of the spiritual battles in your life can be won by settling the Lordship issue. You can't separate God from any part of your life, not even your job. You can't be a mob hit-man and be saved.
Matthew 11:25 While God must be obeyed, Ed must not be obeyed, the same goes for Pete and any other leader in CFCMI.


At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[/quote]

So Jesus reveals His wisdom to babies. I thought Ed called them 'demonic destractions'. It goes to prove where Jesus stands on babies as opposed to where Ed stands.

Is CFC leadership obedient to God? They seem more like shifting sand.

But that rest only comes after we come to him. How long will you have unrest in life, not letting him be Lord?Jesus is Lord. LRD is not lord, nor Ed, nor Pete, nor CFCMI.


We had a young man come to church maybe twenty-six years ago. We baptized him, and he went to Bible studies, and prayed every day. He went home on leave, and I got a letter from his mother. She said that he had died in a car accident on the way home, but she found his baptismal certificate and Bible studies. She cherished those things, and was so grateful that he had found this church and come to God before he died.
You don't know when you're going to die. The flesh will always fight against you; don't give in to it. As your pastor, I'll have to give an answer, an account for the message that I've preached and what I've taught you. That will be my responsibility and nobody else's. So what good would it do me to preach a message of "Praise God, and everybody is going to be okay." What good would it do for me to let you live two lives?
James 1:8 Can't say if this car story is true or not, but LRD liked to scare his flock with threats of car accidents. Wasn't he son a Christian before CFCMI? This sounds more and more made up.

Flesh versus soul--some truth to this. CFC twists it on purpose based on how they define the terms. We do have corporal needs, food, shelter clothings. Shame on Ed and Pete if they rob their Church just to pad their own nests. Living on $20 is pretty hard.

I think is a ploy to get more control. If someone is wanting more sleep, they he is acting in the flesh. Well even Jesus fell asleep in the boat. He got hungry. So do we. We need cars. Ed needs LOTS OF CARS.

Sometimes our bodies need rest so our souls can function better. I don't think CFCMI does much to nourish body or soul. They don't get fed well at home or in Church.




A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

This means someone who can't make up his mind. Someone who is sidetracked from following God, perhaps. Anyone who lives above his flock and robs them to pay for his own opulence is double minded. Those who rob the poor and widows will be judged harshly.

I taught in Africa on two separate occasions. The second time, a person came and said,You have in essence taught the same message twice. Why do you emphasize obedience so much? Obedience is the key. I don't just want you to know better; I want you to do better. I've had enough angry people in my life; I don't want God to be angry at me.
What kind of impact will your life have, if you just increase your obedience?
The evidence of loving God and serving God is obeying God.
Two wrong types of "Obedience"

Selective obedienceI determine when I'll obey.Situational obedienceThe situation determines when I'll obey. Never let your situation determine your obedience. Those of you in the military, take note: when you go out on liberty, make sure that you control the situation. Never go out with people who will make bad choices; invite them to go out with you instead. Never surrender your will to anyone but God. Don't be a follower of the pack; be a leader. God's men and women are leaders. And if the only one following you is you, then make sure you lead to the right place. You are the most important follower in your life.
God paid a price for your salvation, in blood, in nails, in suffering. How hard must it be for God to endure a bunch of half-baked followers who pretend to follow him, yet they hear the message and don't really care?
Bill and Lauren, stand up. Imagine that you're together on your wedding day. Imagine that the pastor asks Lauren to promise to love, cherish, and obey, and she answers, "Well, I'll do my best. I guess I can do that most of the time." How long would that marriage have lasted?
If you saw a hundred-dollar bill on the floor, would you "try" to pick it up? Or would you be diving to the floor to get it before someone else does?
If we live our lives in denial, why should we be surprised when we get to heaven and hear God deny us?Godly people aren't money grubbers and don't wrestle for money. A Christian would take a large amount to lost and found or to the police.

God does want us to think for ourselves. We must have a well formed conscience. I do not think God asks for blind obedience. What if out leader is corrupt? We need to pray to the Holy Spirit for discernment. I believe He is trying to lead those in CFCMI out of that mess. These so called "half baked followers" are finally waking up and smelling the coffee. PRAISE GOD!

Ed says, don't follow the pack, but if those take him literally they can't stay, or that makes them blind followers. Sometimes the Holy Spirit convicts people to say something other than what they intended to say. To me, not following the pack means leaving for more Godly grounds.


Matthew 10:33


But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 25:14


For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Here we go again: The Parable of the Talents. Would a good and faithful servant stay in CFCMI instead of being brave and investing his life in following God, and pursuing interests that could benefit society as a whole? We are many parts, buy all one body. We can't all be preachers, or missionaries, pursue religious vocations. We need, grocers, farmers, moms, dads, shop keepers, repair men and women, transit workers, etc. We can't all sit around church waiting and being available. None of us should.

God owns you. We can't be so foolish as to think that our lives are our own, to do with as we wish. You know the story about the man who built the barns:
Luke 12:17-21 Yes God owns us. CFCMI, however, does not own anyone. We were bought and with price--Jesus' death on the Cross. We must remember that. Jesus set us free. We are free to follow Him. We are free to live and work where we choose. Jesus gave us special gifts, and interests to serve Him. If we are cooped up in such a place that we are never allowed out alone, or can't use the phone or internet without permission, or must bring a friend every time we need to go to the store, if we are not allowed to make our decisions; then this is not of God.


And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Think of all the wealth CFCMI has amassed. Makes me think that this is a message means specifically for Ed and Pete and their fundraising department. I see conviction here, mainly by the Holy Spirit. It gets better.

Before you can realize that God owns you, you have to also realize that God owns everything you have. How many cars have you owned? One? Two? Five? Ten? I've been through a lot of cars in my life. I wonder who owns them now? You can say that you own your house, but what if you died? If Pam and I died in a car accident on the way to North Carolina, who would own our property? It wouldn't stay a memorial to the Thomas family; our kids would sell it hoping to make some money. (Boy are they in for a surprise.)
Nothing you have is permanent, except your soul. Everything you own belongs to God. God owns it and has owned it. He owns the sunset, yet you don't see his signature on it. He owns the beauty of the prairies, yet you don't see his stamp on it.
If God owns everything, why do we have such a problem with the concept of giving to the church? The problem is that we think of it as our own money. It's not up to you what that money is used for; when you give it, it's God's. And the stewards in the church will have to give account to God for what they do with it. If you think it's yours, then keep it. But if you realize that it's God's; you shouldn't have any problems with giving it.
If we give to God, we're doing no more than the little child who buys Dad a Christmas present with Dad's money. If God owns it all, what's the big deal?
Those of you who are history buffs will know the story of Ivan the Great. He was so busy conquering kingdoms that he didn't have time to find a wife, so his servants found one for him. They decided that the daughter of the king of Greece would make a good wife for Ivan. The problem was, in order to marry her, he would have to become Greek Orthodox. Ivan said, "No problem." and took five hundred of his soldiers to Greece so that they all could be baptized in the Greek Orthodox church. The next problem was, you couldn't be a soldier and a church member at the same time. After some hasty negotiations, the priests agreed that the soldiers could raise their sword above the water, so that everything would be baptized except their sword-arm. This became known as "the unbaptized arm."
I wonder how many unbaptized checkbooks there are in the church? I wonder how many unbaptized wallets, unbaptized 401k's? How many unbaptized financial commitments? Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is going to be saved. If God is not Lord of all, he's not Lord at all. He is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He says, 'I got stuff'. Then he says, 'It's on loan from God'. He goes on to say, 'Your stuff is my stuff too, or you are not obedient to God, so cough up you bank!' Clever ploy.

Since God owns everything it is time for Ed and Pete to sell some things off if they are serious about any ongoing renovation, which they are not.

For the record, people can be baptised. Things are consecrated, never baptised. We can consecrate all that we have to Jesus. I doubt Jesus would want us giving all that we own to the Church, especially CFCMI. (I wonder how many have Ed or Pete named in their wills). Few of us are ever called to do that while we are alive. I don't think Jesus wants us to be underemployed just because our pastor tells us to cut our hours and hang out at church to 'remain available'.

(http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pillars.net%2F&profile=css3)

[bramble]

I just want to clarify that I never insinuated that the couple Thomas mentions in his sermon was having any marital problems, but know that Thomas used to flirt with certain single ladies in CFCMI--(source: www.abusivechurches.org (http://www.abusivechurches.org)) I still think most reasonable husbands and wives wouldn't mind if their better half brought a friend of the opposite sex over for dinner or coffee. Chatting isn't cheating. In truth, Thomas is telling the Single Men that chatting with young ladies is actually cheating by this back handed comment.

Teens and young adults can be jealous because they are often immature. Love is not jealous. Acting jealous is a good way to lose your boyfriend or girlfriend. As far as married people go, then need to get a life.

As far as Pam Thomas telling, hubby, Pastor Ed not to watch The History Channel proves that she is, in fact, the real General Pastor of CFCMI. It is the head of house who gets control of the televison and remote. :D

[turningjapanese]

My observation of CFCMI is that they are so dysfunctional and delusional that any attempt to "normalize" their logic and behaviors is an exercise in futility.

But that is how cults operate.

[bramble]

OK, so you have this ET3 who has just re-enlisted. Ed and Pete are already drooling over his reenlistment bonus. $$$$. 'GIMME GIMME GIMME' they are thinking. What pops into my mind is that most ETs start out their careers at PO3s. If he has been already 3-4 years, he should have made PO2 (ET2). It just goes to show how CFCMI holds sailors back in their military careers. CFCMI must really get in the way of sailors studying for advancement exams.

[HeatherRose]

It is the head of house who gets control of the televison and remote. :D

The "Head" of the houshold is established by...................

Whomever can exibit domanance by physicaly or verbaly wrestling the remote control from the other?

[bramble]

The "Head" of the houshold is established by...................

Whomever can exibit domanance by physicaly or verbaly wrestling the remote control from the other?

No doubt you have heard the old one that the husband gets the remote, unless the wife is very domineering, or the husband is very liberated. I just seems to me from all I have read that Pam seems to have more clout than Ed, partially because she is a Davis. This may account, in part, for their opulent lifestyle. What was your experience?

Some say that Ed is really more in control than Pete. Behind the scenes it may be their wives who are running things.

[HeatherRose]

I found her to be a "Holier than thou" gossip.

[turningjapanese]

She was the original "ole lady gossip bag".

That is what I have been told.

[bramble]

If you remember, those Heaven's Gate culties wore what looked like costumes from a B grade science fiction movie. Their predominant colors were purple, fuscia, and gold. They wore really large, exaggerated collars. They wore sneakers, I think--A SUICIDE CULT.

The Peoples' Temple cult run by Jim Jones that also committed suicide, wore more conventional clothing.

While I am not liking wardrobe to suicide, what I am looking at here is conformity. Uniforms can re-enforce group thinking and squelch individual thought, and maybe actually push people to do what they wouldn't normally do. It gives a person a sense of belonging and an air of superiority, if they are a bit off psychologically.

If you used to be in CFCMI, I would like to know what you observed regarding dress code under the following circumstances:

Church on Sunday

midweek Bible studies

other prayer meetings

picnics

dinners or parties

renovation or housekeeping at Church

What were rule that applied to ladies regarding hair, makeup, shorts? I some of the old picture from the CFCMI site, I see that LR's grandchildren have short hair in some instances. Other seem to visit tanning parlors. More than one has a ton of blue eye shadow. Do they get to do things that normal women don't in terms of dress?

What about men's hair?

I wonder if things have loosened up over the past decade.

[turningjapanese]

Sure things have loosened up. Back in the early daze, those Jesus-freaks weren't even "allowed" to watch TV or listen to "real" music. Now LR's grandkids all have myspace accounts and are given luxury cars to drive. There lies the double-standard regarding "worldliness", or whatever they called it.

[John Cady]

If you used to be in CFCMI, I would like to know what you observed regarding dress code under the following circumstances:

Church on Sunday - The single men were *expected* to be in a minimum dress shirt and tie. Suits were better. The goal was to train the men to be ministers, even though we normally did not get sent out to do so.

midweek Bible studies - You mean the Wednesday services? The same dress code applied for the single men on Wednesday also. I was given a lot of dirty looks from the goon squad because I often wore jeans and a t-shirt.

other prayer meetings - No real rules here except for no shorts (just like everywhere else). Jeans were allowed but discouraged.

picnics - *Modest* athletic apperal, no shorts or sleeveless shirts like tank tops. Jeans were permitted.

dinners or parties - This depended on how formal they wanted the dinner.

renovation or housekeeping at Church - Old, ratty jeans and t-shirts; some of the Navy guys would wear their uniform coveralls to these functions, even though base policy forbid it.

What were rule that applied to ladies regarding hair, makeup, shorts? I some of the old picture from the CFCMI site, I see that LR's grandchildren have short hair in some instances. Other seem to visit tanning parlors. More than one has a ton of blue eye shadow. Do they get to do things that normal women don't in terms of dress?

Shorts were forbidden for both sexes. Since CFCMI opposed mixed bathing, they also taught against women wearing bikinis. However, I recall helping Ed Thomas at his house and I did see bikinis for his daughters. Pam had a one-piece swimsuit. CFCMI departed from traditional Pentecostal teaching when it came to women and their apperal; makeup and jewelry were common, as was women cutting their hair. In many ways the CFCMI women dressed like other women; the MEN (single men in particular) had more restrictions.

What about men's hair? CFCMI did not set specific guidelines about men's hair length, but it was encouraged for all the men to sport military-style haircuts. Facial hair was limited to mustaches, though a few men managed to get away with gotees and sideburns. Full beards among staffers was forbidden.

[bramble]

Do you think a strict dress code was an effective means of controlling those in CFCMI? Even notice how CFCMI seems to be getting away from both neckties and blazers?

Bikinis on Ed's girls? Scary! Veddy Scary! LOL

Thanks for the input.

[bramble]

It appears that they didn't have a service this past Sunday. Maybe they just didn't post it.

[turningjapanese]

Sure they had a service. They won't miss an opportunity to verbalize garbage, like this:


"The next time you sin, whether you look at pornography, or engage in gossip, maybe you'll drop dead. I remember the doctor who told Pastor Davis, "People don't die of heart attacks; they die of sin." That doctor hung up the phone and dropped dead of a heart attack, and later it was found that he had a mistress and was cheating on his wife."
---Ed Thomas 3/8/09

????? C'mon! Die of Sin?? What a bunch of baloney.

Besides, if God instantly killed those that looked at porn, there would be no "pastors" preachin' this kind of BS on Sunday.

What cracks me up is that people actually PAY to hear this. I would want my money back, for sure. (oop$, too late---Ed $pent it on him$elf!)

[bramble]

Sure they had a service. They won't miss an opportunity to verbalize garbage, like this:


"The next time you sin, whether you look at pornography, or engage in gossip, maybe you'll drop dead. I remember the doctor who told Pastor Davis, "People don't die of heart attacks; they die of sin." That doctor hung up the phone and dropped dead of a heart attack, and later it was found that he had a mistress and was cheating on his wife."
---Ed Thomas 3/8/09

????? C'mon! Die of Sin?? What a bunch of baloney.

Besides, if God instantly killed those that looked at porn, there would be no "pastors" preachin' this kind of BS on Sunday.

What cracks me up is that people actually PAY to hear this. I would want my money back, for sure. (oop$, too late---Ed $pent it on him$elf!)

I am so sure with blarney (hey, St. Patrick's Day is coming) like this, some of those oldheads are rolling their eyes too!! While there is a grain of truth in what Ed says, there is just enough truth to make people swallow the wheelbarrow full of BS that goes along with it.

I know the Bible says, "the wage for sin is death" but, as usual, things are taken way out of proportion and context. Ed is the master spin doctor. If, LRD's doctor actually died physically of sexual immorality, then it would stand to reason that Davis would have dropped dead long before he ever was able to move to Kenosha or Waukegan. Back in the 1970's, he would have been pushing up daisies somewhere in Arkansas. Too bad for his victims he didn't.

You are right, if anyone would have dropped dead from sin and sexual immorality, it would have been CFCMI pastors.

If Ed keeps reusing the same old tired, implausable, stories, this will eventually trigger a walkout among the thinkers. I wonder how many thinkers there are left :confused: Ed sounds rather petty and gossipy, too.

Gossip? (When is Pam's funeral scheduled? LOL) He had better pay more attention to his own family, first.

[turningjapanese]

Haha!

Let's apply Thomas' own "logic".......

God would strike down an adulterous physician over a nutball preacher that exploits hundreds of people financially, spiritually and sexually.......Hmmmm......

Thomas talks about fearing the IRS....if I were him, I think I'd fear guys wearing white coats appearing at my door! What a loon.

These "sermons" are a joke. Not even Bob Vincent can make them look good.

[bramble]

Haha!

Let's apply Thomas' own "logic".......

God would strike down an adulterous physician over a nutball preacher that exploits hundreds of people financially, spiritually and sexually.......Hmmmm......

Thomas talks about fearing the IRS....if I were him, I think I'd fear guys wearing white coats appearing at my door! What a loon.

These "sermons" are a joke. Not even Bob Vincent can make them look good.

Why did it take until Tuesday for Vincent to post it?

OK so CFCMI might be facing an IRS audit! We knew this day would come. I wonder how many people Ed will try to drag down with him!!!

Ed should fear the men in the white coats, I agree; he made some crack about 'would you put a live electrical cord into you mouth?' He is trying to get them to fear electricity, or is he? Maybe he is feeling self destructive!!!

WARNING PEOPLE!! I SEE A NUMBER OF RED FLAGS IN THIS LAST SERMON!!!

EDWARD J. THOMAS IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS MAN!!!

GET AWAY WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!

I fear Ed more than God. You should to.

[bramble]

There are two kinds of contrition:

imperfect which means fearing Hell and God's judgment.

perfect which means fearing offending God.

In reading Ed's sermon clearly he fears God's just punishment more than offending God. The truth is few of us actually have perfect contrition. Those who do, are the holy among us.

Those who see themselves above others are quite to the other extreme and are attached to sin. Detachment from sin is a hard thing to master.

How does this fit in with CFCMI?

Well, no one should let Ed's sermon scare them. We all fall short of the grace of God. Sin is a daily struggle. I don't think God expect that we will perfect in this life. Contrition and effort is what He expects.

Ed's erratic behavior is what is scary!! He sounds like he has gone off the deep end.

[turningjapanese]

Ed's erratic behavior is what is scary!! He sounds like he has gone off the deep end.

It is VERY scary. That is why this place is SO dangerous.

You'd think the "normal" people in there would have told him to SHUT THE HELL UP by now.

Freakshow.

[bramble]

It is VERY scary. That is why this place is SO dangerous.

You'd think the "normal" people in there would have told him to SHUT THE HELL UP by now.

Freakshow.

No pun intended, It seems for now Hell is flapping its gums. The truth is in the end, God will always win. I don't hear much Jesus in Ed's sermons.

I pray for the protection of those still inside.

[bramble]

They seem to putting a lot of effort into redesigning their main web page.

[turningjapanese]

CFC can re-design all they want; it still won't matter.

You'd be hard-pressed to find people willing to hang out in a boy's club gymnasium with a gang of perverted pentacostals.

They probably didn't factor in the poor economy and declining public opinion when they came up with this "Jesus told us to move" ploy.

No visitors = No funds.

[onetime]

Greetings. Some time back while surfing the web, I stumbled across this website and related others (e.g., AbusiveChrurches.org). I was a former member of that organization in the 1970s, so I have a perspective on many of the things you discuss here at this present time. (I can’t believe I was so stupid and gullible to be a part of that farce, but, duh, I was.) I have long since put that experience behind me and moved on with life. In fact, until I came across this site, I hadn’t thought about the “fellowship” in a long, long, time. I refer to them as “the group.” For what it’s worth to you, I want to comment on a few things I’ve read in these posts (I took out a quickie Factnet subscription so I could to this).

First, anyone can say anything anonymously, so let me give some bona fides to try to establish credibility. I knew Ed and Mrs. Ed pretty well. Ed was discharged from the USN in April 1978. He was an E5 (Petty Officer Second Class) and his rating was OS (he worked in CIC aboard the USS Independence). For a time I was a “Good News Singer” (groan) and if there are any of the old group pictures still in existence, I would be in several of them. I was a member of the group when they all bunked at the Karcher hotel (owned at the time by a guy named Collins). I remember the "man of God" supporting Illinois State Senator Adeline Geo-Karris, and having the groupies make campaign signs for her. I remember when the group performed at the Joliet Prison (circa 1978), ironically, the same joint that the “man of God” would find himself in years later (oh, well, they persecuted prophets, didn’t they?). That’s enough.

I laugh when I read about how Ed is characterized today. I’ve seen things written that say he’s a bully! (Ha, ha, ha, stop it!!) The only reason he could ever be a bully is that other people allow it. When I knew him, he was a pu**y, not a bully! He was a weak sister. In the old Servicemen’s Center across from Great Lakes, there was a Head Shop on the first floor of the two-story building. To go up to the “Center,” you passed by the entry way to this joint. One night, while either leaving or arriving with Mrs. Ed and Mrs. Pete, some dopey character emerged from the shadowy vestibule and threatened Ed and his escorts (I believe he was wielding a sharp object). Ed, the bully, cowered with the skirts. Another group member, with some onions, shoed the character away. Yeah, real tough guy.

People don’t change their stripes. If Ed’s a bully, it’s because others are willingly afraid of him. He is just trying to emulate the “man of God’s” 6th grade education tactics. Of course, the way to sell your “bulliness” to other sheep is to get them to believe that you are an agent of God, or worse, God himself. Whoa. I think people are so guilty about sin that they’ll listen to anyone out there preaching fire and brimstone (a little Proverbs 27:7 reference action for those of you so inclined). People need to stop following every Tom, Dick or Harry just because they spew “God” from their lips. Sheesh, just hang a "God" sign on front of your digs and you’ll have people follow you. (Remember the movie Forrest Gump where he was running across the country with a bunch of dumb clucks following him? They were clueless.)

Again, people don’t change their stripes. They really don’t. I read where Mrs. Ed is a “gossip. Hey, she was back then too. Surprise, surprise. She could make hubby do anything she wanted. I’ll bet my last dollar it’s exactly the same today. Hey look…these guys’ days have been “prolonged,” but that will end (Ecclesiastes 8:12 for more good book action). Just be patient and enjoy the show. Don’t get bent out of shape because the hammer hasn’t fallen yet.

One more thing: there’s a YouTube video out there on the misfortunes of the “man of God” (the Chris Wallace moderated thing) and it is referred to as the “Frontline” video. It’s actually a production of the original Primetime Live show on ABC.

That’s enough. I’ll do no further posts (besides my subscription will soon expire anyway). I wish to remain anonymous. The past has no effect on me today but I wanted to try to clarify a thing or two to those of you who are still dealing with this in you own way. Mainly to deflate the myth of Ed and his “power.” He was a wuss. I could go on, but I don’t want to think about these deluded losers any longer.

I respectfully offer the following advice: Deal with this and move on. Don’t be defined by what happened in your past. Always remember, you have the power. Don’t ever give it to anyone else!

Good luck and best wishes.

See you on the other side.

[bramble]

Glad you are out of CFCMI, as they now are known. I really like your post. I look forward to reading more from you.

As to whether Ed, is a bully or a wimp, I think you make a good point. Some other posters say he is prone to temper tantrums. From what James M. posted, Ed burst into tears when he found out James and Marquis were walking out. I also read Ed burst into tears when L.R. said he couldn't walk out and take Pam, too. Now that sound like a wimp to me. Maybe 'brat' is a more apt term for Ed.

I agree that Pam is the real General Pastor. :D I also think L.R. had arranged the marriages of his two daughters. He wanted to make sure his daughters married husbands who were malleable and weak.

Some who have been bullied can become bullies. I think Norfolk is a lot less tough than Waukegan.

My first hand experience with this group is somewhat limited. However, there is one or two still in there I wish I could help. That is why I am here.

(Check your PM. They do work and always will work.)

[turningjapanese]

Thanks for stopping by, Onetime, and for sharing your experiences with "the group". Got a good chuckle out of your post.

Unfortunately, "the group" is still out there leeching off the military and twisting scriptures (guess some things never change, as you pointed out). It must have been groovy bunking with those culties at the Karcher! Anyway, glad you got out of there and moved on with your life. We're hoping others do the same.

Peas to you,
TJ

[onetime]

“I love the people who bring their baby to church. What a Satanic distraction. Why? Because you're playing with the baby instead of taking him to the nursery, and everyone else is ogling the baby instead of paying attention to the message.” – Eddie J“Families are part of the enemy system because they hurt one's total dedication to the cause.” – Jim JonesKindred spirits, they.

Just be glad Eddie’s intelligence and imagination are much lower than Jimmy’s was. It limits his potential for damage.

[turningjapanese]

"How many know the story of when Jesus was missing for a few days and his mother and father came looking for him? What did he say? The same thing I say to my Mom when she asks, "Jay, when are you coming back to L.A. to visit?" "Mom, I've got to be about my father's business."


Blow off your family so you can "be available" to shampoo Hazel's carpet.....nice!

[onetime]

"How many know the story of when Jesus was missing for a few days and his mother and father came looking for him? What did he say? The same thing I say to my Mom when she asks, "Jay, when are you coming back to L.A. to visit?" "Mom, I've got to be about my father's business."

The Pharisees were giving Jesus a hard time. Jesus responded:

And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that." – Mark 7:9-13 NIVYes, CFCMI does "many things like that."

When you deny your mother or father, when you put the “ministry” above the needs of your family in a manner that would make mass murderer Jim Jones proud, you are nothing more than a pompous Pharisee!

Unless, of course, you are “about the business” of the Davis/Thomas/Paine clan. That's okey dokey.

[onetime]

Many are probably familiar with the Dog Whisperer show on the National Geographic Channel (one of those "evil" channels that, according to Edward J Thomas Jr from Mentor-on-the-Lake OH, “destroys faith”). The show features Cesar Millan, the “Dog Whisperer,” who rehabilitates and restores balance to dogs with problems. The Dog Whisperer’s specialty is working with dogs that are known to be aggressive. He believes that pack leadership—by all humans who live or work with the dog—is required for the dog to exist in a content, calm state. When a dog lacks rules and has no sense of boundaries or limitations, it actually can “rule” the household, not only getting its own way, but the dog can be very confused and messed up as well. The Dog Whisperer demonstrates to dog owners how to obtain and maintain leadership over their canines.

Actually, CFCMI is like a bunch of mutts that have no true pack leader. They are run by stressed-out little doggies that do nothing but yip yap all day long. Ed Thomas, who is a cross between a Chihuahua, a Yorkie and a Sh:tzu, acts in an unstable manner, fluctuating between states of frenzied excitement and sluggish disengagement. These mutts, without higher-level guidance, are incapable of any semblance of self-discipline. They eat without restraint, come and go as they please, and make messes for others to clean up. A truly deplorable situation. Unfortunately, the dogs in the CFCMI kennel are not getting any younger.

What CFCMI needs a true pack leader!

Should anyone want to take on this tough, thankless job, here are some things to consider to ensure sustainable, positive change for all:

1.) The new CFCMI pack leader needs to take immediate charge! Eddie, Petey and several of the other mutts will immediately yip yap, nip and bite at the new leader. Remember that you need to firmly hold your ground. Stay calm, but be very strong and resolute. The little doggies will carry on every which way to try drive you off. I wouldn’t be surprised if little Eddie p*ssed on himself or went over and sh*t on the rug. But stay the course and over time they will know you mean business and they’ll become submissive to you. A sense of calm and relief will then permeate the entire CFCMI kennel.

For an example of staying the course, see this post:

LR then did something that I’ll never forget. He got down on one knee...

2.) Introduce a large number of new females into the organization. Allow the males to mingle with them to develop long-term relationships. This will take time and much patience, but changing the current artificial environment to a more natural, healthy situation will help the males develop normally. Remember, most of these dogs have been abused for years, so don’t expect dramatic results overnight. Also, realize that some dogs may be beyond saving. A few mutts come to mind here. Just keep them contained and comfortable as they live out their natural lives. (Consider providing cute little doggie toys that they can chew on to keep them occupied. Rubber pigeons are real popular right now.)

3.) Do some damage control. Go seek out the former dogs that were wronged or otherwise taken advantage of and run off. Acknowledge all of the past mistakes and set out to make it right with these former members. To show that you are serious, formally condemn the way the kennel was previously run. Sever all ties to the past.

Do this and you’ll be a great pack leader.

You’ll be the CFCMI Whisperer!

[John Cady]

"How many know the story of when Jesus was missing for a few days and his mother and father came looking for him? What did he say? The same thing I say to my Mom when she asks, "Jay, when are you coming back to L.A. to visit?" "Mom, I've got to be about my father's business."
Thank you very much Jay for revealing how the CFCMI mindset of blowing off one's family members for the sake of the "ministry" is alive and well. I bet Ed still admonishes the sailors to refrain from taking leave over Christmas to visit their loved ones and provide slave labor for his throne.

It's no wonder many of the oldheads now have a hard time dealing with their parents and siblings. They were taught to shun and ignore them, and now the relationships are so badly damaged they may never be repaired. Some, like Jim Ottoson, have no family left and all they have IS CFCMI to take care of them.

Yeah, Jay, you have shown us just much your leadership cares about family. They DON'T.

[turningjapanese]

and all they have IS CFCMI to take care of them.


That is a scary, unappetizing thought...."who exactly" is going to care for these sickly elders of the cult? Who will go and visit them in the home, or the nuthouse? Deb? The young sailors? Bruce?

Only time will tell....

[onetime]

What’s going on with the “Largest Jesus Name Ministry in the World” in San Diego? Great Lakes? Hawaii? Washington? Florida? Sri Lanka? Haiti?

Hey Edwina and Peetey: are you guys growing or are you shrinking? I mean as a church here—I know you and your porcine partners are “growing,” poundage-wise (those 5,000 calorie per day diets just aren’t working too well, are they?).

Are you using the “talents” that the Lord has given you wisely, or have you “buried” them in the ground? Or worse, did you blow them on more Harleys?

It’s intuitively obvious to any casual observer that you are in a period of decline. Perhaps irreversible decline. (That means you’re not going anywhere Pam.)

I know! Why don’t you take a page out of Jim Jones’s playbook and claim you are being persecuted and run off to some remote place like Haiti? You don’t even have to go as far as Jimmy did. You can declare the drinking of kool-aid to be optional.

Forget the sailors, go after the Haitians! Brother Ulysse can help pave the way. You can help realize your beloved founding pastor LR Davis’ vision of a “mountainside of dark-skinned people worshipping together” with a few palefaces thrown in as well!

Whoo hoo!

[turningjapanese]

What’s going on with the “Largest Jesus Name Ministry in the World” in San Diego? Great Lakes? Hawaii? Washington? Florida? Sri Lanka? Haiti?

Hey Edwina and Peetey: are you guys growing or are you shrinking? I mean as a church here—I know you and your porcine partners are “growing,” poundage-wise.




Answer: Nothing is going on. At least, nothing noteworthy.

CFC is continuing to shrink; and Norfolk is becoming the ratnest that Waukegan was; even before Pete bugged out. Guess Paine marking his new territory down Azalea Garden Road didn't attract any interest.

It seems San Diego is going the way of the Dodo bird. I wonder if any of those loons in CA have joined the pigeon party in Virginia. I'd like to see that Watson guy mix it up with Buddy and Filthy Dick in an all-out Freak Fest.

As for their financials; we should let the US government worry about that. Uncle Sam likes to raid cults every so often, and CFC is way past due. I'd bet they'd be real interested in those overseas accounts that Ed brags about having.

[onetime]

The effeminate little failed carpenter, pastor, wire licker, et al. from Mentor-on-the-Lake OH sez:

"If we look at the world's pleasures and don't say 'no,' we willingly enter into hell." — Ed Thomas 12/13/09I sez:

So now that he has all of this phony “power” over his flock of cowardly, fearful sheep, he transfers his phobias, dysfunctions and hang ups onto his subjects.

More sezin’ by me:

Then, once they have their herd, an even stronger motivation kicks in: power.

In Nineteen Eighty-Four, there is an important exchange:
“How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?” O’Brien asks.
Winston thought. “By making him suffer,” he said.
“Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own?”
This includes mental as well as physical suffering.

CFCMI anyone?

CFCMI is ALL about keeping its subjects in a perpetual state of guilt. This is also a problem I have with many religious organizations as well. Many religious leaders like to preach fire, brimstone, hell, damnation, deny, deny, deny, deny yourself.

Sounds like hell on earth to me.

Does God want us to enjoy life? I say yes, within “reasonable” reason. Enjoy a meal, yes, but don’t eat enough for a family of four in one sitting. Wine is good, but perhaps three bottles and a six pack is a bit much? Watching a good movie can be a nice diversion from the normal routine, but probably not six hours per day, six days per week.

It’s about being balanced. Avoiding excess. Common sense. This comes from a sound mind. Extreme forms of penance are unbalanced (e.g., perpetual guilt trips, giving all your money to a religious organization, putting church ahead of family, not watching the History Channel because your pastor says it destroys faith, etc.).

There is a time and place for just about everything. I said “just about.” There’s never a time and place for what LR Davis and his surrogates did.

In my view, so much of religion—certainly CFCMI—is designed to keep people in a certain level of misery through man-made rules and spiritual conclusions that don’t come from God. When people become accustomed to guilt and misery, enjoying the pleasures of life can produce false guilt. To me, that’s a living hell.

Jesus (the one everyone claims to follow and emulate) took time to enjoy dinner with his family and friends. And he didn’t feel guilty about it. He certainly didn’t feel guilty when Mary anointed his feet with costly oil, worth, according to some, a year’s wages. He was balanced and did nothing in excess. He was also a tad bit hard on the religious leaders of the day, was he not?

Edwina and Peetey get together with their families. They take time out to do the things they want to do. They buy whatever they want. They partake of the pleasures around them. They do not deny themselves anything.

But they preach that you can’t, because if you do, you're going to hell!

Pathetic losers, they.

[onetime]

Edwina and Peetey get together with their families. They take time out to do the things they want to do. They buy whatever they want. They partake of the pleasures around them. They do not deny themselves anything.

But they preach that you can’t, because if you do, you're going to hell!

Pathetic losers, they.
Damn!

Would somebody in CFCMI wake up and grow some balls, stand up to these bastards and throw them out?

The rest of you continue to graze with the other sheep. Filthy Dick will be around later to service you.

[bramble]

Damn!

Would somebody in CFCMI wake up and grow some balls, stand up to these bastards and throw them out?

The rest of you continue to graze with the other sheep. Filthy Dick will be around later to service you.

What they really need to do is get the gumption to walk out, find gainful employment, (it's out there) and get on with life. Make the most of the years they have.

Ed and Pete don't need anyone--just their money. They actually need REAL jobs themselves. Dick sounds like another sleazeball used car salesman type.

[turningjapanese]

Dick sounds like another sleazeball used car salesman type.

No, it's worse than that....check out the official transcripts from the abusivechurches website:

June 24, 1992
Page 846



http://www.mychristianfellowship.org/pictures/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=9

[onetime]

On the first day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
A real nasty STD

On the second day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the third day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the fourth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the fifth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the sixth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the seventh day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Seven Quixtar gift cards, six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the eighth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Eight tubs of Vaseline, seven Quixtar gift cards, six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the ninth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Nine “He Touched Me” CDs, eight tubs of Vaseline,
Seven Quixtar gift cards, six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the tenth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Ten old Karcher postcards, nine “He Touched Me” CDs
Eight tubs of Vaseline, seven Quixtar gift cards, six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the eleventh day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Eleven worthless sermons, ten old Karcher postcards
Nine “He Touched Me” CDs, eight tubs of Vaseline
Seven Quixtar gift cards, six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

On the twelfth day of Christmas, CFCMI gave to me
Twelve more months of no girls, eleven worthless sermons
Ten old Karcher postcards, nine “He Touched Me” CDs
Eight tubs of Vaseline, seven Quixtar gift cards, six trips to Haiti
Five penis rings
Four pooping pigeons, three filthy men, two dodo birds
And a real nasty STD

[turningjapanese]

That's a cool song.

I bet they sang it at their Geezer Gift Exchange.

[onetime]

That's a cool song.

I bet they sang it at their Geezer Gift Exchange.

But I’ll bet the geezers still wince remembering the intramuscular injections of penicillin in the ass!

[onetime]

What does the future look like for CFCMI?

Edwina Jr and Peeter are in their mid-to-late 50s. They are bloated and overweight. They are not getting any younger. They’ll both soon begin to face the effects of advancing years, i.e. diminished functionality and health challenges. Remember, LR infarcted when he was 63. Bottom line: these creatures are on the decline—both physically and mentally. They have always been dead spiritually.

Located mainly in Norfolk VA, who’s going to lead the “Largest Jesus Name Ministry in the World” after this governing junta goes the way of the dodo bird? Who has the energy, vitality, youth, and intelligence to not only lead the effort going forward, but to make it grow as an organization?

The inner circle of bootlicking sycophants is (fortunately) right up there with this obese tag team in terms of years in the human life cycle. Ottoboy looks like a burned out wino who, 30 days out of rehab, is becoming weak and wobbly again and will soon be back on the sauce.

Filthy Dick? The only thing that Filthy Dick can do is…well, you know. (Smile with pride Barbie doll!) Like a dog trained to do various tricks, Dickie has no other qualities (leadership, independent thought, etc.), necessary to perpetuate an organization.

Preying Lantis? Danny boy single-handedly demolished the former San Diego church of CFCMI, strangling all happiness and hope with his bare personality. He’ll probably wind up in prison someday as a result of some scam. Or hitting on the wrong guy.

Professor Snow? Bwaa haaa haa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Stop it, you’re killing me!!! Richie doesn’t have the smarts to beat his way of a paper bag—or a wet noodle. (He’s does take direction well, though.)

WTF ever happened to Rickie Hahn, the little rat with a 70s-style porn star mustache who serviced LR with gusto? Whatever…he never was anything but a BJ-giving follower (“Come on up to 701, Rick”). He couldn’t lead of pack of dogs.

What about the Davis-Thomas-Paine progeny? (I – don’t – think – so.)

And all the rest…a cast of the characters right out of the Bronx Zoo. No, there are not a lot of possibilities here. (They can organize a damn good pot luck dinner though!)

Hmmm. I’d say the future looks bleak for CFCMI.

But pretty damn bright for the rest of society!

Hey Edwina and Peeter: It’s not too early to start looking into assisted living options for the years to come. They can really help with things like personal care (also called custodial care), such as: bathing, dressing, toileting, eating, grooming, and getting around.

[bramble]

Tithe: Give unto CFC one-tenth of everything you earn.

Offering: Give CFC the other 90 percent, also.

[turningjapanese]

What does the future look like for CFCMI?

WTF ever happened to Rickie Hahn, the little rat with a 70s-style porn star mustache who serviced LR with gusto? Whatever…he never was anything but a BJ-giving follower (“Come on up to 701, Rick”). He couldn’t lead of pack of dogs.

Rick moved to Norfolk during the cattle-drive, to be among his people.

A nugget of gold from ABC:

"Rick(I LIKE IT!)Hahn is a born sycophant. Unable to lead effectively himself, he is forced to always snuggle up to other, more powerful, men. Such is the life of a man-whore like Rick. Traded his manhood and self-respect and integrity long ago for rewards he no longer enjoys. A laughing stock and parable for those who might later be tempted to justify the wicked for reward.

If you want to see the broken down, used up, direction cfc is taking, just examine Rick(I LIKE IT!)Hahn."

[onetime]

Rick moved to Norfolk during the cattle-drive, to be among his people.

A nugget of gold from ABC:

"Rick(I LIKE IT!)Hahn is a born sycophant. Unable to lead effectively himself, he is forced to always snuggle up to other, more powerful, men. Such is the life of a man-whore like Rick. Traded his manhood and self-respect and integrity long ago for rewards he no longer enjoys. A laughing stock and parable for those who might later be tempted to justify the wicked for reward.

If you want to see the broken down, used up, direction cfc is taking, just examine Rick(I LIKE IT!)Hahn."

Whoever made this post at ABC sure had that little fcuker nailed flat. After all these years, my memory on certain aspects of CFCMI has become somewhat hazy, but I do remember when Rickie Hahn joined the group, circa 1976. Like a stray kitty, LR picked him up from somewhere (probably the North Chicago strip where he picked up many of his victims) and brought him into the loving confines of the Collins-Karcher Hotel one evening where the CFI antibodies surrounded little Rickie like a virus, and after getting him to say his “Shun da da bars” as the spirit gave him utterance, proceeded to reel in this fish for the Lord. From that point on, little Rickie eagerly did whatever LR commanded of him (little penis-duster mustache always loved a “strong” man).

I heard once that little Rickie got in a fight with Princess Fairy Pants after his idol, LR, was sent to the slammer (unrequited man-love?). Too bad YouTube wasn't around back then. It would be a fun show to watch today.

[onetime]

What does the future look like for CFCMI?

Edwina Jr and Peeter are in their mid-to-late 50s. They are bloated and overweight. They are not getting any younger. They’ll both soon begin to face the effects of advancing years, i.e. diminished functionality and health challenges. Remember, LR infarcted when he was 63. Bottom line: these creatures are on the decline—both physically and mentally. They have always been dead spiritually.

See for yourself in pictures that look like they we taken by a five-year old:

It’’s never to early to start indoctinating, I mean teaching, the young
http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20004.JP G (http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20004.JP G)
I remember when I was a kid, grown-ups sometimes made me do stupid things too.
A little more fiber in the diet might help
http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20116.JP G (http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20116.JP G)
Too much rich food can cause this. For short-term relief, try some laxatives.

The Michelin Man speaks
http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20147.JP G (http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20147.JP G)
He looks happy in a coat and tie. Did you know the Michelin Man is color blind?
The cattle are lowing
http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20101.JP G (http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20101.JP G)
Seeing this last picture reminds me of a song I heard when I was very young. The kids in the first picture might like this tune:
I'm Moo Moo the cow
I eat lots of hay
I sit on the tracks
For most of the day
My milk is so good
It doesn't take long
For all little children
To grow big and strong
Note: Because so many redundant pictures were taken of each subject area, it will be more difficult when the monitor mutt tries to scramble things up, but I’m sure he’ll give it a good Valour College try. Anyway if our faithful pup is successful, you can watch the whole wonderful show here:
http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/PastorPaineVisitPhotos.html?=0# (http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/PastorPaineVisitPhotos.html?=0#)

[onetime]

http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20046.JP G (http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20046.JP G)

Oh, wait. I'm told that's not a killer whale, it's Diamond Deb. I'm sorry, I'm not watching this in high definition.

[turningjapanese]

Looks like a 4 year-old snapped that pic with a SpongeBob camera. WTH?

[John Cady]

Looks like a 4 year-old snapped that pic with a SpongeBob camera. WTH?
My son is 4 and knows how to use a camera already...he can actually take some good pics!

[turningjapanese]

That's cool.

I wonder who took the latest ones in Waukegan---all blurry and messed up. What screwball would post that mess?

The worship pictures posted on that site are old....where they try to show a 'crowd.' NOT.

When they claim they are the "Largest" Jesus-Name Ministry in the World, are they referring to the size of each individual person within Paine/Thomas Industries? Otherwise, I just don't get it.

[thistime]

All the creatures depicted in this National Geographic spread are pretty creepy looking.

It's amazing how these guys (photographers, Mrs. Thomas) can home in on a fabulous shots like this!

I hope the guy doesn't die by a stingray stick in the end.

http://www.glmilitaryfellowship.org/events/PastorPaineVisit/CFC%20Pastor%20Paine%20visit%20Jan%202010%20046.JP G

[gregory63]

Rick moved to Norfolk during the cattle-drive, to be among his people.

A nugget of gold from ABC:

"Rick(I LIKE IT!)Hahn is a born sycophant. Unable to lead effectively himself, he is forced to always snuggle up to other, more powerful, men. Such is the life of a man-whore like Rick. Traded his manhood and self-respect and integrity long ago for rewards he no longer enjoys. A laughing stock and parable for those who might later be tempted to justify the wicked for reward.

If you want to see the broken down, used up, direction cfc is taking, just examine Rick(I LIKE IT!)Hahn."

You're welcome. Too bad ABC doesn't still work. It was truly awesome. Thanks be to those that made honest observation easy and fun to do.

[turningjapanese]

If Dan Lantis is a "wealth intelligence" coach, why does he live in a shack of a house and peddle overpriced crappy make-up on the net and Craig$list?

*is he wealthy?
*is he intelligent? ( a CFC'er told me he's illiterate...)
*what makes him a coach?

Hey Dan, if you can read this, hit me back and let me know how your "meet-up" groups are going!! I'm also curious to know how much a "world-renowned" speaker charges these days....

[onetime]

Here’s a picture sequence from our undercover photographer of the ever-optimistic Princess in green drag trying to peddle Quixtar to the wrong people:

http://webecoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/greenpeace-trash-can-man-russia.jpg (http://webecoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/greenpeace-trash-can-man-russia.jpg)

[bramble]

Are all CFC marriages arranged? Everyone knows Ed's and Pete's were. Just look how happy they are!

[onetime]

Whoever made this post at ABC sure had that little fcuker nailed flat. After all these years, my memory on certain aspects of CFCMI has become somewhat hazy, but I do remember when Rickie Hahn joined the group, circa 1976. Like a stray kitty, LR picked him up from somewhere (probably the North Chicago strip where he picked up many of his victims) and brought him into the loving confines of the Collins-Karcher Hotel one evening where the CFI antibodies surrounded little Rickie like a virus, and after getting him to say his “Shun da da bars” as the spirit gave him utterance, proceeded to reel in this fish for the Lord. From that point on, little Rickie eagerly did whatever LR commanded of him (little penis-duster mustache always loved a “strong” man).

I heard once that little Rickie got in a fight with Princess Fairy Pants after his idol, LR, was sent to the slammer (unrequited man-love?). Too bad YouTube wasn't around back then. It would be a fun show to watch today.

Nah. How close is debatable, but certainly no cigar.

However, this inmate on death row (Phillip Bocharski) sure does resemble little Rickie Hahn (without the 70s-style porn star mustache).

To me anyway.

http://i.azcentral.com/commphotos/view/247041.jpg (http://i.azcentral.com/commphotos/view/247041.jpg)

[turningjapanese]

That guy looks like one of those dudes that attends CFCMI's "Men's Fellowship" outings!

CFC loads those aging man-whores and feeble-minded sailors into their oversized white church van (resembling a big tampon) and Bruce hauls those freaks to some crappy tourist trap or all-you-can-eat chicken shack.