John Robert Stevens - to be a christian - shiloh

[aurora original]

its been a while since anyone posted...i've been peaking in on this message board for years and was bored tonight and figured I'd stir it up a lil....I don't remember life before "the church"...although i was not a part of any of the facilities, i was born and bred in this culture. i communal lived until I was 10 and have gone back and forth on my belief for as long as I can remember. i grew up in this ****...to my core I believe in the teachings of John...and to my core I believe that people in power corrupt others and their walk with god for their own greater good....although they may not mean to...they do....and when its all said and done..they say they are sorry and expect forgiveness although the damage is done and is deep...this not only happened in our church...it happens in every church and in every religion...so I to do not believe in organized religion - i do not need four walls to have a walk with god on a daily basis. Do i miss the worship, and the word...sure I do...but I don't miss the mental mind ****..the second guessing the constant seeking of "confirmation"...I do not miss believing that every missfourtune was due to "not being covered" - I have never learned to trust myself because I was taught to seek others approval for EVERYTHING....i have seen parents attack others children not knowing what their own children were doing...I've gone to "services" for years when God was not mentioned...i have seen "elders" and "designated relationships" direct one thing and live another...i have seen parents choose "the walk" over their own families....mom and dad aren't at school function cause they have to be submisive and go to some function at the church...i realized as a child that if i conformed to the game I was accepted more by my parents so when in doubt go to a service, it will make everything better, for manipulation encourages more manipulation...Us thinking we are all knowing all powerful...acting as if we were chosen... really being unsure, insecure, and different...but never feeling happy or good enough.
one of my most favorite things in life is the tape from the first 4th of july ampitheatre show...with the lightening..and the playing to be a christian..marty and kevin singing...to this day that tape makes me cry and feel close to god and my beliefs, find hope, and confirmation, no matter what i am doing...at the end of the day...that truely is what it is all about - all the personalities can go to hell - this was John's perspective...but at times it has been lost in translation...
To Be a Christian is what it was all about to begin with...it is what everything is founded on...in my life and my experience it is the most pure description of a walk with god - it is what it was always about....this church was founded on hippies...they were the only ones open enough to allow the concept in the 60s...i'm 35...from 77 to 83 i live with a variety of familes in a communal home...we grew sprouts in the window, had a vegtable garden, made our own peanut butter and ice cream ( i joke that my parents were hippies and didn't even know it)...human nature, free will and power corrupted John's vision...he was a visionary...we just got cocky.... and in the 90s it all crumbled...
I wonder what it is like now...i've been to shiloh a few times over the years....I show up their when I really need to find clarity...for me shiloh will always be my home...i may have never lived there...but it is where i am most comfortable....where i find peace...where i've had some of my best memories....it is my mecca and when needed i make a pilgrimage there..in a corny but honest compatitive...

i have come to understand that other peoples actions have nothing to do with my personal walk with god through this thing we call life...i've also come to understand that i don't need four walls and other peoples approval to have a walk with god - its okay to have a bad spirit...cause everyone gets ****y - just remain open...

If you forgot...this is what how it began....most importantly think about what it doesn't say about what you need to have a walk with god....peace to you and yours -

To be a Christian, as I understand Christ, means the acceptance of the absolute authority of Jesus in all of my life. It means that in everything I am and do—when I eat and drink, when I buy and sell, when I work and play, when I read and think—that I look to Jesus as my Master. It means that I enthrone Him as King in my affections; that I subject my friendships to His dominion; that I conduct my business and my intellectual and social life under His inspection and direction. It means that my ruling passion—the passion that shall absorb all other interests shall be to live my whole life under the sovereignty of Jesus. It means that I honor His name above every other name, and place obedience to Him above every other obligation.
To be a Christian means that I am no more my own man, but Christ's man. It means the giving of myself away to Him, so that I have no more right or title to myself; so that I have no more claim upon myself, and am no more at my own disposal. To be a Christian means to belong body and soul to Christ, now and evermore, for Him to do with me as He wills.
Hence, it means that in being Christ's man, I am set free from all fear. My joy must be in doing His will, in being His slave, in the confidence that whatever comes to me, when following Him, is His doing. In a real sense, I make Him responsible for my life. I am responsible for following, He is responsible for leading and keeping. It can be none of my business what happens to me, what I gain or lose, when I follow Him. That is Christ's business. It is His to command, mine to obey. I am sure He will not waste a fragment of my life if I let Him possess and direct it. I am also sure it will be mainly waste, friction, vain striving and misdirected effort, sickening failure and defeated ambition if I try to direct my own life.
My part as a Christian is not to find out the opinions of men, but to keep my eyes fixed on Christ, to let my mind dwell on Him, having a constant mental vision of His character; to make His life the food on which my soul shall live; to make His gospel the textbook and authority by which I stand or fall.

John Robert Stevens

[jlintott]

desert #1

-Take a twinkie from the ice-box.
-Brown it in the toaster oven.
-Dunk in a glass of cold milk.

----enjoy!

[truth_is_a_choice]

What happens to the old threads? I go away for a minute and they're gone -can't find them on the old forum....can anyone tell me?

Aurora; thanks for sharing. Pretty interesting, you sound to be about my age. I don't miss the mind games either, the thing I miss the absolute least though is thier 'word' (The word). Since leaving i've found it so much easier to hear Jesus' Word, (He is The Word). Especially thier words in the 90-s, by that point it was evident that several of the leaders were now openly expressing delusions of granduer. And as cults, cult minded people do, they were sharing them with eachother (which I believe was simply an after taste of the former shared delusions about praying for people who were in the way to die). After I left it was nice to visit churches who weren't so openly hostile toward God and attempting to use Him as thier personal tool devoid of an actual relationship....never heard of any other church preaching about 'giving God a punch under the eye", or praying to thier dead leader to rent the veil Jesus already rent (& only Jesus could do that)....or painting God as the big bad monster who attacked poor little Job (as though thats just how and Who God is!), or labeling anyone who got in thier self centered little way as a jezebel, nephalim, contentious or rage filled spirit. I've certainly never heard another preacher in any other church telling a woman how she should cut her privates off, or that the preacher was supposed to be the Christ or God in a paritioner's life (instead of Jesus) (oh, woe -to the rebellious little paritioner who should just make the pastor "Christ" in her life).....I could go on and on and on like this about thier word. I have come to hate that crap (cultivated religious arranged polution =dirty water) (the word). But I have come to love the original Word (it is untainted).
Do you still have family there? Shiloh always was a pretty peaceful place to me because I wasn't heavily involved and they only used me as a child slave once or twice....so it was just like any chore to me. Usually when i was there I had some free time to go off and play or look at some of the many animals they had collected on that huge plot of land. There was an elderly lady there we would visit (she lived off base) (We knew her well from Florida) ....so we would go into town, it was a vacation...so in that respect it was a peaceful place to me too. Never saw people riding around in horse drawn buggies anywhere else (Amish). Definetely calming.
Anyway....hope to hear more from you, if you visit Shiloh anytime soon -let us know how they're doing. I always wonder what they're preaching now (because I've still got family there...who contest that it is a wonderful God -glorifying place who bow to Jesus =paraphrase).

[aurora original]

its passover...my major life changes come at feast times, ask my parents...
i think i've finally gotten to the point where i am not concerned with the past - i am so much more interested in the future...i've realized that i can't change what has happened, as horrible as it was...i can only effect the future...be cognizant of what I do before I judge others..SO

[larry_bobo]

Thank you for bringing back fond memories of my “first love” with TLWF. I loved Jesus and wanted more of him in my life, just the way John expressed it in “To Be A Christian”. I loved the way John pursued after the Lord and wanted the lordship of Jesus Christ manifested in his life. It was very evident that John had found something far deeper than anything I had been exposed to in the Baptist church.

The last few lines of “To Be A Christian” have much more meaning to me now:

“My part as a Christian is not to find out the opinions of men, but to keep my eyes fixed on Christ, to let my mind dwell on Him, having a constant mental vision of His character; to make His life the food on which my soul shall live; to make His gospel the textbook and authority by which I stand or fall“.

I wonder how much John looked to “the opinions of men” as a source of a word from God for direction for his own life. I remember him saying that real confirmation happens when someone speaks something from the Lord that confirms what God has been speaking to you, without them having any prior knowledge of it. That is much different than someone bearing witness to something or, as it evolved in later years, being the only source of God speaking into your life with blind obedience required, whether it bore witness to you or not.

I love how “The Message” expresses Matthew 23:2-10. “The religion scholars and Pharisees are competent teachers in God’s Law. You won’t go wrong in following their teachings on Moses. But be careful about following them. They talk a good line, but they don’t live it. They don’t take it into their hearts and live it out in their behavior. It’s all spit-and-polish veneer. Instead of giving you God’s law as food and drink by which you can banquet on God, they package it in bundles of rules, loading you down like pack animals. They seem to take pleasure in watching you stagger under theses loads, and wouldn’t think of lifting a finger to help. Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called ‘Doctor’ and ‘Reverend’. Don’t let people do that to you, put you on a pedestal like that. You all have a single Teacher, and you are all classmates. Don’t set people up as experts over you life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; let Him tell you what to do. No one else should carry the title of ‘Father’; you have only one Father, and He’s in heaven. And don’t let people maneuver you into taking charge of them. There is only one Life-Leader for you and them – Christ.”

Isn’t it peculiar that following Jesus’ words would seem like anarchy and rebellion in TLWF? If you were fortunate enough to have a “shepherd” with a little common sense playing God in your life, the damage was not so great. If you were not so fortunate, the damage was horrible. Real healing comes from reading Jesus’ words and acting on them. It washes away all the human wounds. There are no wounds He cannot heal. In fact, the pearl of great price is formed in adversity – an irritating grain of sand. Those that suffer with Him, reign with Him as they continue to press on to know him. Don’t pay the price and then fail to cash in on the goods. The story is not over unless you are deceived into thinking it is and stop walking.

[themissinglink]

My Brother!!!! Passing Over together! What a privilege.
Love, Link

[truth_is_a_choice]

Interesting....I remember that in the LWF, (later)....people saying "I'd like to witness that!" (all the time) -etcetera....it seems so strange now. Confirmation of what God actually is speaking does come differently, or in another way which is known between the person and God. I take it by this that it wasn't always like this....something I never thought about before. (Its just the last familiar form of relating I remember).
A lot did depend upon the brother (pastor). We were once a part of a church in Florida which was a part of the LWF....Oh it was a beautiful church. There was hope there. On my birthday (very young) they did the whole prophesying over ya thing (don't mean to be disrespectful -just was a long time ago) ....& pronounced me as some sort of prophet when I grew up. Its funny now. (I was probably in the second or third grade). But right around that time -I went to school (kids in public school don't usually appear to care about or think Jesus is cool , so it was my experience) and told everyone at lunch that Jesus loves them. The crowd got bizarrely angry, and a teacher had to rescue me (she was kind enough to back me up and tell them that Jesus loves them). Although I didn't do it again, it didn't phase me. I'm not a prophet of course and it might have turned out bad if it were later and I took it seriously....but it was nice that they had such kind intentions and thoughts toward me, that they would want value to be in my future.
That was a kind church -and they didn't play God in people's lives. Unfortunately, just before we left, that church did disconnect from LWF (probably '84) and quietly warned my mother they suspected it was a cult....because we were going to another LWF church in Michigan when we moved.
After talking to someone on here I was told there was a different pastor just before we moved there. It made sense, because the church changed a lot when the leadership changed...makes me wonder HOW much it changed. The main sheperd we ended up with in leadership was definately into being God, Christ himself -in the flesh, in the earth, in people's lives. Another brother was set into leadership just after I visited his house (his daughter was my best friend) and we quietly hid (feigned sleep), listening to him beating the crap out his wife. The next day she had a black eye...that made him church material. Instead of being told I would be a prophet one day -they called me a Jezebel (a Jezebel interferes with a grand ministry & needs to be confronted by men rather than by God....I wasn't even 18 years old yet). Its funny how different people from different churches within the LWF end up with some very different memories and stories.