John Cady
04-11-2008, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by turningjapanese
Hi, John....was wondering if cfcmi could be put on an off-limits list with the military. I met a woman yesterday, whose husband is a high-ranking officer at Great Lakes. I asked her if she knew of CFC, and since they just transfered here, she did not. She told me there is a list of places that sailors are banned from; mostly bars and payday loan places. She knew there were a few churches on the list, and I told her why and she wasn't surprised at all. Young sailors are easy targets for a lot of schemes. Anyway, was wondering if cfc could be put on the list at Norfolk; and it that against "constitutional rights"?
In 1982, CFCMI was placed off limits by the Commanding Officer, Naval Training Command Great Lakes due to the allegations of sodomy and cult-like behavior which at that time were not proven in court or in the media. One sailor, along with Davis and company, petitioned against the ruling and by 1983 the "off-limits" ruling was dropped. According to Dick Brand, John Orr was the sailor who spoke out for the church and the base commander was left with a lot of egg on his face.
In 2005, before I retired from the Navy, I contacted the Command Master Chief at Recruit Training Command Great Lakes after receiving messages from a young sailor who had been approached and harrassed by some of the "base crew". The big difference between 1982 and 2005 is there is more information available against CFCMI proving without doubt there are problems. What CFCMI could do in the manner of smoke and mirrors back then will not work now.
To place an establishment off limits, the Navy has to screen the place through a Disciplinary Council or something along those lines (it has been a few years and I do not remember the exact name); in Norfolk, the usual targets were adult bookstores and bars. Since CFCMI has been in decline following Davis' death in 1999, they would now be seen as a nuisance instead of a real threat. In 1982, they were growing and recruiting folks all over the place. Now, the crowd had thinned.
To sum it up, CFCMI will most likely be reviewed but not placed off limits by the military.
Hi, John....was wondering if cfcmi could be put on an off-limits list with the military. I met a woman yesterday, whose husband is a high-ranking officer at Great Lakes. I asked her if she knew of CFC, and since they just transfered here, she did not. She told me there is a list of places that sailors are banned from; mostly bars and payday loan places. She knew there were a few churches on the list, and I told her why and she wasn't surprised at all. Young sailors are easy targets for a lot of schemes. Anyway, was wondering if cfc could be put on the list at Norfolk; and it that against "constitutional rights"?
In 1982, CFCMI was placed off limits by the Commanding Officer, Naval Training Command Great Lakes due to the allegations of sodomy and cult-like behavior which at that time were not proven in court or in the media. One sailor, along with Davis and company, petitioned against the ruling and by 1983 the "off-limits" ruling was dropped. According to Dick Brand, John Orr was the sailor who spoke out for the church and the base commander was left with a lot of egg on his face.
In 2005, before I retired from the Navy, I contacted the Command Master Chief at Recruit Training Command Great Lakes after receiving messages from a young sailor who had been approached and harrassed by some of the "base crew". The big difference between 1982 and 2005 is there is more information available against CFCMI proving without doubt there are problems. What CFCMI could do in the manner of smoke and mirrors back then will not work now.
To place an establishment off limits, the Navy has to screen the place through a Disciplinary Council or something along those lines (it has been a few years and I do not remember the exact name); in Norfolk, the usual targets were adult bookstores and bars. Since CFCMI has been in decline following Davis' death in 1999, they would now be seen as a nuisance instead of a real threat. In 1982, they were growing and recruiting folks all over the place. Now, the crowd had thinned.
To sum it up, CFCMI will most likely be reviewed but not placed off limits by the military.