NeoNazis own words proving PM is not a racist

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">So that we never lose those quotes from the neo-nazis themselves saying PM is not a racist, I thought I would copy them to their own thread.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif
_________________________________________________
SD said:
Murray is greatly admired among CI groups because they feel he got over ... that he was smart enough to make his preaching "politically correct" enough to be tolerated by many people who'd otherwise shun racism. He's so slick he even fools the races he despises.

Well, lets see what they, CI, has to say about PM themselves, shall we?

Excerpt Quotes:</font>
He cut his ties with Identity in 1981 or so.

He openly welcomes blacks, and other non-Whites into his church, and he even has them serve in certain secure positions within the church. There was one couple who used to go, they were complete mongrels and they wore Star of David necklaces all the time. The wife actually thought that she and her kids were good White Americans - but they looked like they snuck across the border last week.

<font color="0000ff">And quote:</font>
I was involved in SC for 10 years, went to their Passover services for years, and every year- more and more non-Whites, and less and less Whites. About half of his church are Native Americans who think they are Whites.

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
Thanks for offering your insights about Arnold Murray. I'm wondering if he's all I thought he was cracked up to be. It doesn't sound that great that he's welcoming all these minorities into his congregation.

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
He's strong on the one-seed Doctrine, but seriously lacking on "naming the 'jew'"; he likewise pushes far too much into the second-level, (spiritual), understanding while completely disregarding the profound importance of the first-level, (physical), portion of Scripture...

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
There's been other threads about Murry, probably in the archives somewhere. My biggest disappointment is seeing non-Whites in his congregation.

<font color="0000ff">http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/thoughts-arnold-murry-shepherds-chapel-276163p2.html?s=09ac28e079c8045c3dae3ca0f4aa63a5&amp;a mp;t=276163&amp;page=2</font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">And lets no forget these quotes:

Quote:</font>
Arnold Murray obviously does not feel obligated in the prohibition of letting the mamzer enter his congregation or adopting the stangers into the elect of God. He just couldn't resist inserting his universalist theology into this article. Likewise, he cannot resist the marrying of the holy with the profane in an arbitrary doctrine of man.

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
If you are going to preach something that you say is a Christian teaching I would like proof. Oh, and by the way. Please don't bring up Murry. He and his brother teach bs. He is stuck on the masoretic text, so-called hebrew, sacred name, premillennialism, and he allows non-whites in his congregation and states openly they can be saved.

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
Arnold Murray's material has a copyright on it, and he does whatever he can to distance himself from anyone who claims to be ro-White. His church is about half non-Whites.

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
You are very right Klaliff, but the problem is that Arnold Murray is not Identity, and has done everything that he can to set himself apart from Identity - he simply teaches about the Serpent's Seed, but he believes that blacks are exactly the same as Whites in the eyes of God. Some of his strongest supporters at the Chapel are non-Whites; one couple each wears a "Star of David" around their necks.. I guess they think they are "Israelites."

<font color="0000ff">Quote:</font>
So, just because he teaches about the "Serpent's Seed", don't think for a moment that he is a White Nationalist, promotes Christian Identity, White Separation, or even White Preservation.

<font color="0000ff">http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/scholarly-teaching-christmas-arnold-murray-174539.html</font>

[franklin]

The title of this thread is hilarious! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

One group of racists pointing fingers at another group of racists claiming that group is not racist enough! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

The world realizes that arnie just gives lip service to those who he consdiders to be the "mud peoples". The 6th day creation "tillers of the soil, that were not pure enough races for Christ to be descended from according to arnies lies.

You arnie's arse kissers will come up with any kooky kind of propaganda to perfume a skunk. No matter how much perfume you spray on a skunk, the skunk still stinketh.

Same as with a racist such as arnie and his followers. Nobody is buying your convoluted propaganda. Just more perfume on a skunk. arnie still stinks of racism.

PeeeeUuuuuu! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/crazy.gif

[neginoth]

I'll add by saying something I haven't made a habit of advertising, though I've said it before at the Figtree.

On my mother' side of the family, I am white Anglo-Saxon. Admittedly, I inherited most of my physical features from her.

On my father's side, I am 1/4 Spanish, and 1/4 Syrian.

According to Captain Crunch, I am a racist, but I'd sure like to now who he thinks I am racist against.

The Strong's defines a mamzer as a child born from a Jewish father and heathen mother.

But there are a variety of definitions offered:

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

WHO IS A MAMZER?

Before we examine the theory let us make sure that we are clear on the facts. A mamzer is created in two sorts of situations:

1. A child born to a Jewish mother or father either of them mamzerim, or

2. When two Jewish people who are not mamzerim but cannot marry each other under Torah law have a child together.

Thus, when a married woman has relations with a Jewish man who is not her husband the child is a mamzer. Similarly if a father has relations with his daughter or a brother with his sister, the offspring is a mamzer. This is true whether the mother entered these relationships voluntarily or not.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

http://www.aish.com/torahportion/mayanot/Jewish_Rights.asp

I don't care if my place is in the inner sanctum, outer sanctum, or around the corner.

<blockquote>Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.</blockquote>

It is not my place to argue with God, and I'm as pleased as punch.

[lutheratx]

I just want to add you are free to believe what you will, I'd like the same respect. However I hope that I wasn't offensive to you in any way. Ask God sincerely to give you the truth about false religion or just the truth. You have to study your bible try to get a tool that will help you to help with miss translations and so you can find the subject. Friend there is the 144000 and the millennium temple so we may still windup at the same place. Give up personal prejudice. You may have been abused by white people in the past. This is truly a misjustice because you are absolutely beautiful to God when you love him.

[lutheratx]

Let me infasize I never will apologise for my beliefs.

[smyrna]

Franklin is so sick, he can't even read that the racists are saying that Murray is not a racist AT ALL.

They, by their own words, are clearly dissapointed.

This sick slob refuses to believe anyone. We tell him we aren't racists, he says we are lying. Hey, if we actually were racists, doesn't he think we'd admit it, and would be proud to admit it? What an idiot.

Franklin has never admitted he was wrong. That is a sign of mental illness.

We have alreday observed evidence his superiority complex.

He can preach equality all he wants, but the fact is he thinks he's superior to everyone.

Have you ever heard Franklin compliment anyone? That's beause he is fearful of anyone looking better than he thinks he looks.

Anyway, for more stable people, to witness avowed racists make the statments they have about Pastor Murray, and the SC, we have positive proof that the SC cannot be grouped up with racist organizations, and anyone who tries is going to look foolish.

I would think the fact that these true racists and anti-semitic folks clearly have those opinions about the Chapel goes a long way in explaining why none of the national organizations that fight racism and anti-semitism are not clamoring for the SC to be removed from TV and radio.

Like I have said many times, the only people that have a problem with the Chapel are whack jobs on the Internet, because that is the only platform they have to spout off about their absurd opinions.

[abiyah]

<font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">Salute to you Terluvire, Neginoth, Lutheratx, and Smyrna:

And may the True Peace, Mercy, Grace, and Love which is IN Jesus Christ our Lord be upon each of your hearts. I am sick too my inner being with the above stated quotes which were spoken from the hearts/mind of these indentity groups [Matthew 12:36], so much so that it nearly causes me to weep, yet I refrain myself, though indeed their words effect my heart with great sorrow, and I'm grieved and troubled by their speech, their ignorance, and their great pride, and with an effect such as this, I KNOW it is NOT of God. Yet i am Thankful to The LORD that you Terluvire &amp; Neginoth have brought these quotes forward to PROVE unto these which are foolish and ignorant that pastor Arnold Murray is NO racist, he absolutely is NOT !!! </font></font></font><font color="000000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="-1">

Franklin WROTE:
*********************************************** **
QUOTE: " Same as with a racist such as arnie and his followers. " END QUOTE
*********************************************** **</font></font></font><font color="0000ff"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">

FRANKLIN ! Shame on you ! And how dare you try to twist that which has proven you and Stage Director LIARS ! How dare you play a part in such wickedness. You indeed do bear false witness against pastor Arnold Murray, a man who loves God and teaches His Word, and you also bear false witness upon those who do Study The Word of The LORD along with him DAILY. Have ye not read that which The LORD God Commanded, how that... " Thou shalt NOT bear false witness against thy neighbour. "? For IT IS WRITTEN ! And you LIE ! And you know NOT which you speak, and you play a fool when you say such things as this. And yet again you have no clue, NO... none at all what my race is, for you have not beheld my face, not ever. You IDIOT ! I was at The Chapel just this past April 2007, and pastor Arnold Murray treated me with nothing but respect and LOVING KINDNESS, and he welcomed me, and I gently huged him, for he is my brother IN Jesus Christ The Lord and indeed he is beloved in my heart, for pastor Murray indeed warmed my heart. He KNOWS what race i am, and it was not a problem at all, not what-so-ever. IGNORANT you are ! And let me tell you something Franklin, he did not only just treat me with loving kindness, but yea, also there were Indians, Blacks, Latino's, and Whites, which were present that same day, and God KNOWS I lie NOT ! For indeed each one of them belong to The LORD God, He indeed created them ALL and they are ALL His Children, and He LOVES them ALL, and pastor Arnold Murray KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS this Truth, and indeed there is a purpose for them in God's overall plan, and pastor Murray ALSO knows and understand this... you GOT IT ?! But you Franklin have indeed beared false witness against us, who are INNOCENT to that which you accuse. Franklin i say this with the love which is in Jesus Christ The Lord, REPENT from your wickedness, and turn from all your trangressions so that iniquity shall not ruin you [ Ezekiel 18:30 ]. And you STOP doing evil in the Sight of The LORD God, repent that your sins may be blotted out [ Acts 3:19 ], and turn from your ways, for your works here are NOT, I say NOT of God ! </font></font></font>

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">I agree with you Lutheratx, Abiyah is a wonderful example for us all.

She shows such love and compassion even when lies about us are being flung our way.

She is a true servant of the living God!!</font> http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[dodge]

Neo-Nazi's own words about Arnold Murray:

Arnold Murray "...does whatever he can to distance himself from anyone who claims to be ro-White. His church is about half non-Whites. I studied under Arnold for over 10 years, and went to quite a few Passover services that were held in places like Kansas City, MO; Fort Smith, AR; and Branson, MO. He will call you all sorts of names, and will refer to you as a 'squirrel' (meaning you are nuts) on the air or in his discussions. As far as I'm concerned Arnold Murray is a cult leader, and there are/where some things going on in his church that caused a lot of us to leave...In fact, that whole situation destroyed my faith in Christian Idendity, and my Faith in the Word. So do yourself a favor, and cut your ties with him. He began 're-defining' what certain things meant, and when some people disagreed with the interpretations, he began name calling. There's a whole Church in Northeastern Tennessee that cut ties with him after he badmouthed their preacher on TV. Don't think that one of Arnold's snitches isn't here...they are all over the place." (from LeBrune at Stormfront).

http://www.stormfront.org/archive/t-174539A_scholarly_teaching_of_Christmas_~_by:_Arno ld_Murray.html

[dodge]

gwalchgwyn88 at the Stormfront forum says that "Arnold Murray would be identified as a Christian Identity pastor by some."

http://www.stormfront.org/archive/t-105759.html

[lutheratx]

Yaakov I wrote this previously but it kind of sums up what is happening this very day. Have you notice things like the UN trying to siese control ,have you notice how popular Christianity has gotten. Jesus said you would be hated never did he say you would be popular. I assure you it is a watered down religion that all souls are going to heaven. Now on to my writings that God gave me knowledge to do through his prophets.

People are always worring these days, they have fear. Pastor Murray always says man fears the unknown well he also teaches Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. So through the prophets we do know all things. I reckon that your beliefs are that you rapture out before it gets to bad. Well people without this belief are worried about Globalization. You know losing freedoms (which in all actuallity there will be more freedom to do drugs and perverse things more than likely, just your religion will come under attack) People will be given money, debts will be dropped, the unseen forces just want to seise control. If you doubt that find out how many of your friends are in debt. So the unseen people need a person to believe that this is no big deal. Well with that being said if you had insight into this lets say 200 years ago, by evil sources. Could you establish a religion that has no concern over a one world government, because they thought that they would be gone if things get bad. So what am I getting at well, who is this unseen force perverting religion, and seising controll peacefully (kinda they have no regard for your life). Let us look at 1 Chronicles 2:55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.

well what does this mean, well take this to

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:

So these kenites are sitting in Moses' seat, what does it all mean man? Hold on Hold on Moses was the Law Giver. These guys back in the days where trying to take control. So what is going on now?
I in no way condone this guy becuase he use no biblical doctrine, but the Alex Jones guy, he can see that there is a group that has pushed for seising a Globalized rule. He just has his facts wrong it is more than likely not the President that is pushing for this, nor do I believe he is trully in control right now. The Globalized government needs to keep everybody happy so enjoy your rapture (if that is what you believe), and your ignoring of the kenites. Mark God's words written in Revelations 13 on the 7 headed pollitical beast, and by the way you can't seise a government of 6 billion people by force, it is through deceit.

Hey I earnestly do love you. If God is willing to give me a chance, trust me alot of others can come in the sanctuary

I fear only one thing friend, and he is kinda partail to me. I long to fight the one world religion.

Yaakov this was posted to people who would not believe that the evil trinity is felt today. lucifer, antichrist, and false prophet This group that calls us a cult ignores the possesion of the false prophet. Do you believe satan can influence an evil persons action when he sees fit.

[godchild]

ABI ! Shame on you ! And how dare you try to twist that which has proven you and Scers LIARS ! How dare you play a part in such wickedness. You indeed do bear false witness against CHRISTIANITY, MEN/WOMEN who love God and teach His Word, and you also bear false witness upon those who do Study The Word of The LORD DAILY. But you ABI have indeed beared false witness against us, who are INNOCENT to that which you accuse. ABI i say this with the love which is in Jesus Christ The Lord, REPENT from your wickedness, and turn from all your trangressions so that iniquity shall not ruin you [ Ezekiel 18:30 ]. And you STOP doing evil in the Sight of The LORD God, repent that your sins may be blotted out [ Acts 3:19 ], and turn from your ways, for your works here are NOT, I say NOT of God !

HALLELUJAH AND AMEN, BROTHERS AND SISTERS!! PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE MALARKY, ABI AND FRIENDS! YOU'RE SUCH A TWIT, MAKES ME WANT TO ROLL ON THE FLOOR FROM LAUGHTER!! GET ON YOUR KNEES, SISTER, BEFORE THE GOOD LORD SMITES YOU WHERE YOU SIT!! (IN THE BUTT, I HOPE). http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE THE WORST HOLY-ROLLIN FREAK EVER, ABI. GET OVER YOURSELF!

[godchild]

TERLULU, BET YOU WON'T CALL TO FIND OUT IF AM IS STILL LICENSED UNDER SOLDIERS OF THE CROSS, OR IF HIS CORPORATION WILL NOW BE CHANGED FROM THEM OWNING IT SINCE YOU GOOD FIGGIES SHOWED EVERYONE HE'S NOT THE RASCIST PIG WE THINK HE IS. (NOT LIKELY, HA-HA)!

BY THE WAY, WEREN'T YOU ALL THE ONES SAYING WE SHOULDN'T BE USING NEO-NAZI SITES TO PROVE AM IS ONE CAUSE THEY ARE SO TERRIBLE? SEEMS YOU DON'T MIND QUOTING THEM YOURSELVES, NOW DOES IT, MS. #3 PHONEY BALONEY HYPOCRIT! (ABI'S #1 AND ANGI'S #2). http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[yaakov2]

lutheratx

First, I have no idea what rapture is. It must be another word that is only in the Christian bible, like FRUIT.

Second, I honestly have no idea of what all you are talking about. I can't even go point by point as our gulf of understanding is too far apart. All I can say is that you and I have a completely different set of experiences.

I see the world as getting better and better. Just a few hundred years ago, oppressed people couldn’t claim ANY rights. They were essentially property of their rulers. Nowadays, people will claim human rights as THEIR right. People have a better sense of right and wrong. Is it perfect? No. Is the human race making progress? Without question. I believe once humankind gets it right, then the Messiah will come and all people will enjoy Heaven on Earth. May he come speedily in our days!

[smyrna]

Rachel, you really should be ashamed of your last post. Sticking up for Godchild's outrageous, malicious comments.

Can't you see for yourself, that Godchild has seriously stepped up her vitriol against both Angie and Abiyah, since they went to the Passover '07 meeting as well as the SC Church?

Can't you tell that she has been enraged by the fact they brought back photos of the Church she claimed for MONTHS did not exist?

It's that silly, her reasons for being so malicious.

You don't have to believe me, Rachel. Just take a look at the threads, and how Godchild has changed since PO '07.

In addition,things have not been going well for the CB detractors. This must certainly add to her frustrations.

All the attempts to tie the SC to racism, gone in one fell swoop, with the posting of quotes from Stormfront, which Godchild actually pointed us to.

Man, I'd be p'd off too! She posted the first comments from Stormfront, but Terluvire had the right idea, and went there herself to see what Godchild deliberately did not include.

The result was that we see that the majority of the avowed racists there complained that Murray and the SC were not like them at all, and allowed "mongrels" (the racist's term)a term Godchild used against Terluvire, GC is a HYPOCRITE)into the Church, and even hired non-whites to work in the offices and bookstore.

So Rachel, if you want to justify and prolong the false accusations against the SC,and be a partner to their bearing of false witness,go ahead.

God will be your judge, not us.

[skooter942000]

From GC

I SAY, BY GOD, I DO SAY ABI IS A TWIT WITH A TWITCH FOR AM. GOT OFF ON THAT HUG, SHE DID. BETTER WATCH IT, GIRLIE, OR OLD MIZ MURRAY'S GHOST WILL CREEP UP ON YOU IN YOUR SLEEP AND DO YOU A JOB YOU'LL NOT LIKELY FORGET FOR AWHILE.
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<font color="ff0000"><font face="times new roman,times,roman"><font size="+1">
Mat 18:6 ¶ But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! </font></font></font>

<font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica">
The LORD REBUKE YOU (satan),
- and all who serve you.
(In JESUS CHRIST'S HOLY NAME)</font></font>

[smyrna]

I'm bumping up this thread because we don't want the proof that the SC and Pastor Murray is not considered racist, by admitted racists that have no problem with letting anybody know they are.

It is such a common charge by extremist detractors on the web, we need to keep the evidence easy to access.

There are other valuable things on this thread as well:

Godchild's phony Mea Culpa, for those who are wondering where we get the line "She's letting Christ's light shine through her again" and variations of it.

Franklin's illness shows quite clearly on this thread as well, since he won't even admit that the neo-nazis do not consider Murray or the SC racist, in their own words.

It shows that Rachel apparently considers it a noble action, for Godchild to speak like this:

"I SAY, BY GOD, I DO SAY ABI IS A TWIT WITH A TWITCH FOR AM. GOT OFF ON THAT HUG, SHE DID. BETTER WATCH IT, GIRLIE, OR OLD MIZ MURRAY'S GHOST WILL CREEP UP ON YOU IN YOUR SLEEP AND DO YOU A JOB YOU'LL NOT LIKELY FORGET FOR AWHILE. LORDY, LORDY GIRL. KEEP YOUR NASTIES TO YOURSELF! THAT OLD MAN DON'T WANT YOU, GIRL. JUST YOUR MONEY!!! LOLOLOL YOU MIGHT THINK ITS THAT OL SERPENT DOING THE CHANGEROO; PLAYING LIKE AN OLD WOMAN, LIKE YOU SAY HE DID WITH ADAM. GET OVER YOURSELF, YOU DITZY BROAD!"

(more of Christ's light shining through her)

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Good job Smyrna!</font>

[stage_director]

Here's a friendly little quote from "Tracing Our Ancestors" by Frederick Haberman ... suggested reading by Shepherd's Chapel, and one of the books they sell:

"It must be noticed that there is a great difference between the three principal races of mankind...and there exists little relationship between the three. The white race were unquestionably the last comers, being in every way superior to the other two and constituting their leaders and teachers."

[smyrna]

Sorry S_D, Godchild beat you to that one.

It was addressed several months ago, and maybe you'd like to place that quote back in its proper context.

It's another cheap trick to take a quote out of context.

I have the book right here. On page 18, it says;

"The simple answer is that Cain married a woman of the Turanian or Mongolian race...for Scripture tells us that the Sons of God married the daughters of men..."

The reason I bring that up, is that even the detractors know that the SC does not believe nor teach this, and the Sons of God i.e. the Nephilim
are what the verse in Genesis 6 refers to as Sons of God, as Appendix 25 of the Companion Bible affirms.

Therefore, as is the case with the singled out quote that Stage Director conveniently took out of context, the SC does not endorse, advocate or agree with every single detail in every single book it offers students.

Let's follow S_D's "logic" though, just for laughs. If she reads Mein Kampf for example, and a friend recommends reading it, does that make her and her friend automatically racists and nazis?

Here's another example since S_D has such a hard time with logic:

I read a great deal of Catholic books, that is, written for and by Catholics.

There are many quotes given by folks like Luther, Calvin and other non-catholics that the authors published and agree with.

Does that mean that the Catholics do not see any differences between Catholics and Protestants? Do they think everything that Luther or Calvin said is true?

So following these examples,we can see that S_D once again is playing a silly game, called guilt by association.

A few times during the SC Q &amp; A others have written about some of the books and their contents. In similar situations, Pastor Murray replied that "Students are intelligent enough to know that we don't agree with everything in all the books we recommend, But we don't throw the baby out with the bath water."

Finally,

Stage Director is well aware of what avowed racists have said about the SC, right here on this very thread. So it is silly she is STILL trying to label the SC a racist Church.

All the while, of course, she has yet to provide evidence for so many allegations she just spouts off and ignores challenges to prove them.

Continue your freak show S_D. We dig it. Really if that is all you got, you got nothing. But we know that, don't we?

[smyrna]

Addressed in my #2577 above S_D's second attempt at getting anyone to see her silly post.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">SGNG, Already done!</font>

[godchild]

When I brought forth info from 'stormfront' and their discussion of am/sc, scer's immediately jumped on me for taking the word of such people. Now they are filling these threads with the posts there and references to them. They use this to say it proves am/sc is not rascist. That's one of their stupidest choices of 'evidence'.
If you read the posts on the am/sc threads or on the 'doctrines/beliefs threads' you will see the scers admit numerous times that they are "Christian Identity". For those who aren't aware of ci beliefs, let me share one member of the 'stormfront' website's description of ci on her webpage: (from everything I have studied about ci, she is pretty much on the mark)

It's not a hate doctrine, it's an identity doctrine;
because if you don't know who's who (and who's Jew) you won't understand the word.

This site is dedicated to the tenets of Identity Christianity, and for helping Identity Christians study, network and share with the lost sheep of the Houses of Israel and Judah, aka the Israelites. We hold that the Israelites are the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic, Nordic and kindred peoples of the world and are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as evidenced by, inter alia, the Behistun Rock and the Assyrian Tablets. As the physical descendants of Abraham, Israelites are the recipients of the Abrahamic Covenant and covenant blessings promised to Abraham's seed via his wife Sarah (Gen 17).

<u>Unlike British Israelism, we believe that not only the House of Israel was scattered and their identity lost, but also the House of Judah (Jer 13:19). And, unlike mainstream Judeo/Christianity, we believe that the ancient as well as contemporary Jews were not Israelites/Judahites and therefore not the "chosen ones", but rather, Kenites, Canaanites, Edomites (Shephardic Jews comprising 5% of contemporary Jews) and/or Khazars (Ashkenazi Jews comprising 95% of contemporary Jews) who occupied the land of Judea after Israel and Judah were carried away captive.</u> They were called "Jews" because they resided in the land of Judea, not because they were Israelites/Judahites although some Judahites returned to Judea after they were released and were referred to as "Jews" in the Bible. See John 8:30. Therefore, when referring to Jews who are not the chosen ones, we are not referring to our brother Judah since we recognize Judahites as chosen ones but that the vast majority of them migrated north and settled throughout northern Europe (Jer 3:18 ). Because the word "Jew" can refer to Judahites or non-Judahites dwelling in the land of Judea, it is important to interpret the word "Jew" in the scriptures in the proper context so as to distinguish whether the scripture is referring to those that Christ condemned or those that He called His sheep.

In that the seedline of Jacob Israel is the seedline that Christ descended from, the Israelites have been the keepers of "the word" and have spread Christianity throughout the world. According to Rev 12:17, the remnant of the woman seed, Israel, are those that "keep the commandments AND the testimony of Jesus Christ". <u>While some Jews may keep the commandments, most do not keep the testimony of Jesus Christ and therefore cannot be the Israelites.</u> Only the Israelites (including those of the House of Judah) have kept both for they are those that Christ spoke of when He said, "my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27).
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Comments following

[watchman_2]

<font color="0000ff">Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man [<font color="000000">man = mankind -- i.e. all of the races</font>] in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
.
.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. </font>

This is the SC teaching -- straight from the Word of God!

So, no matter how many thousands of posts these detractor fools post, the simple truth is that God's Word is not racist and PM teaches God's Word.

[franklin]

Good program on right now. History Channel. "Nazi America". Portion about the Neo Nazi movement starting now.

[smyrna]

Very good, Glen/Franklin/Gavin/FoxyLoxy/LittleChick

But as the real CI folks have stated, SC is not associated with them. So you wasted your time, again, and hey, are there any websites you can copy and paste where they show Genesis 3:15 is referring to snake eggs?

What do they call people who believe that Genesis
3:15 is about snake eggs?

EGGHEADS?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hey Egghead [Franklin], I'ld like to see a website that talks about the prophecy of crushing snake eggs, (relating to Gen. 3:15).</font>

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[smyrna]

Hey Frankie, you gave us the wrong URL Where is a site that talks about snake eggs in Genesis 3:15?

I looked at the Genesis 3 section there, and there was no mention of snake eggs.

It looks like you gave us the site where you get material for The Sky Is Falling http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
you, know, the thread at Cultbusters.com.au where you play Foxy Loxy and Little Chick, the place where you can read it is ok to lie to "pagans."

Oh yeah, that reminds me. While you are looking for the site about the snake eggs, maybe you can tell us where in the Bible it say it is ok to lie to "pagans" or anybody else, such as SC students.

[smyrna]

"So when was it you said PM was practicing grove worship out in the barn?"

Yeah Ter, I brought that up in a post a few days ago, and she didn't deny it. If she wasn't JL33 and Shadowcat, she would have jumped on that as a false accusation I was making. yet, she did not.

Bingo! Another phony attempt at distancing herself from her own foolish accusations!

Yeah. if anyone else is reading this, check out the thread here titled:

Cultblunder's Shepherd's Chapel Thread

You'll see the "grove worshiping' (it makes me laugh every time I read that!) accusation has two separate versions, and neither was proven, all hearsay, fabricated, and stupid.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hi Smyrna,

Quote:
Yeah Ter, I brought that up in a post a few days ago, and she didn't deny it. If she wasn't JL33 and Shadowcat, she would have jumped on that as a false accusation I was making. yet, she did not.

I'm not surprised. When I approached her at the figtree and asked her if she was ShadowCat from CB, she completely ignored my post. It wasn't until I had definite proof, that she had no choice, but to address it.

Same M.O.</font>

[smyrna]

"Well, I personally know people who were in Gravette and affiliated with the church for many years',

Well, it sure seems you are having great difficulty proving that the Murray's have FIVE planes, that Goff stayed at Pastor Murray's house, that one of the sons is a drunk, that Pastor Murray keeps all the money sent there, that local papers are currently reporting an investigation of Church funds, that SC owns a dozen properties, that you can't seem to talk to your buddies at the SC that can confirm that SC is NOT a racist Church, and you can't even help your partner Godchild understand that the SC has it's own fairly large Church building, and that because of the crowds, a larger venue is needed for the two annual Church meetings, and the Gravette location is used for the regular Church services.

So you are either lying, or you once again FAILED to account for these allegations by providing proof, not claiming you have a source for proof.

More scapegoating.

[stage_director]

Psssst! Shepherd's Chapel isn't really a church, sport ... it's a stage set. The minimum allowed to maintain non profit status is two church assemblies a month in the building registered as the church, and that's what they do.

[smyrna]

Bumped for easy reference, due to current discussion on the Teachings of Arnold Murray thread.

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Thanks Smyrna! I was just thinking the same thing.

For all new people, please read the first 2 posts of this thread.</font>

[stage_director]

QUOTE
she was wrong about the number of services.

EVERY Sunday, and I seem to remember every Wednesday as well. I'll ask tomorrow.
END QUOTE

And what was the answer, sport?

[smyrna]

Now now, Stage Director. I don't want to reveal everything I know at once, I'm sure you understand.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

Also, as I stated, the reason I bumped up this thread has been stated, so once again you are trying to deliberately distract.

If you weren't you would have been more "interested" in how many services the Chapel holds per week, since you've had since May 28 to follow up!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[stage_director]

Like I said, in order to meet the requirements for non-profit status, they meet two Sundays a month. They don't meet Wednesdays at all.

[smyrna]

Still trying to distract from the reason I bumped this thread. You are ridiculous.

[stage_director]

Well, now ... I figure if you don't want what you claim to be reputed when it's in error, don't put it out there where it catches my attention.

[smyrna]

The only thing that catches your attention are things that you can use to distract from important issues, while you highlight trivial matters.

It's your game, but it's foolish.

I'm looking over the older threads, specifically where you refuse to return to them because you couldn't face the challenges presented. There are quite a few.

I know you don't pay much attention to your own credibility, more accurately the lack thereof.

For if you did, you wouldn't leave so many loose ends, 'sport'.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[stage_director]

Tell you what, sport ... Whatever my credibility is, I'll bet it's higher than yours. Matter of fact, I'd be surprised to hear that anyone here other than a Shep Chap'lers puts any stock at all in anything you say.

[smyrna]

Hey S_D, isn't that an ad hominem?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Your silly speculations about me are just more blowing smoke on your part.

YOU made the accusations. YOU refused to offer proof. You will not face challenges to arguments you know you will lose or already have lost.

And that means YOU have the credibility problem, and only your silly fellow detractors deny this.http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Now if you want to deny you made allegations you can't prove,here's a few:

One of Pastor Murray's sons is a drunk.

Pastor Murray owns five planes.

Goff stayed with Murray when the SC was founded.

An investigation into SC finances is being undertaken.

You have never offered any proof of any of these allegations. Anything short of providing evidence just shows us what we already know.

You are a liar. You have no credibility.

[stage_director]

lol I'd be worried if YOU found me credible .... ;-)

[smyrna]

Well, you have nothing to worry about then, especially since you are deliberately dodging the challenge, once again, to prove your allegations.

I guess that is your way of complimenting me, since I would have no credibility if I thought you had any veracity to your claims.

So thanks!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

And thanks also for once again dodging the challenge to your allegations. Such obvious evasion is just what we need.

[stage_director]

Murray called himself an Identity teacher until he got on television. He used the word freely in earlier newsletters and audios ...

[smyrna]

Well, then, I'm sure that if you present all this "evidence" to the NAACP or JDL, or the mainstream media, who as I'm sure you know loves to tear down people, especailly Christian religious leaders, you should have no problem getting someone's attention.

Of course, hopefully, and assuming that you actually do have anything (THAT OLD)you have something else more timely, other than the opinions, lies, and misreprsentations and fabricated false allegations of Internet freaks and wierdos, of which group you have earned your place.

Beacuse if you look around you, at the REAL world, you'll see that people who had (assuming you can prove Murray's alleged "racist" past)people that were avowed racists forty years ago inhabit the halls of Congress, for instance, with only the most extremist of their political detractors still pointing their fingers at them.

They are extremists, because they refuse to
acknowledge that people can and do change their attitudes,much to the chagrin of those who exist apparently just so they can hate someone they disagreed with forty years ago.

It's kind of like, as my spoof of YOU Stage Director, shows, this is a very similiar situation to what St. Paul dealt with, as I am sure there were his fellow Pharisees that heavily criticzed him for follwoing as false teacher, when he should have been remained a nice little Pharisee and tortured Christians.

So unless you have more than the stupid, silly, and of course unsubstantiated material you have presented here or claim to have, you will remain stagnated as just another freako detractor that has little or nothing to presnet to anyone of note that would actually listen to you seriously.

Now just for fun, present to us your evidence that Murray used CI as a term. What ever happened to your claim that you would make this stuff available on the web? Sorry, copying alleged lectures just doesn't cut it.

You won't, you can't because it doesn't exist, beause you would have done so already. You've had what, at least since the beginning of the year to come up with this stuff, and to date other than your silly allegations about Murray's personal life, you have shown NOTHING that I haven't already seen.

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.

[stage_director]

He's Identity, he says so .... and further ... he's pretty much followed Goff's instructions on how to brainwash and bamboozle the sheeples.

You haven't seen of this stuff, boy.

[smyrna]

This woman has no shame. Hey, get a clue: we don't buy your crap, because you NEVER offer any proof of your allegations.

Furthermore,Goff is dead, ok? And you have NEVER proved any asociation between Goff and Murray, other than that ministerial license from forty years ago. So what? That was then, this is now, and Murray is far and away form a communist laeaning person, and certainly not racist, no matter how many times you jerks accuse him of it.

And I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not brainwashed, other than to be washed clean of all kinds of worldly garbage by God's Word, and only God's Word.

Yes, Murray is a great teacher in my opnion, and so is Fr. Carapi on EWTN, Billy Graham, the late Zola Levitt, and histiorically, the Early Church Fathers, St. Augustine, Origen, Jerome, et. al, and I also respect Ginbsburg, Bullinger, and a host of other Protestant scholars,so don't give me your nonsense accusations without ANY proof.

And even though I have NEVER heard Murray even use the term "identity" so that accusation is falling on deaf ears.

Now, you better get over to that thread you started, (Abi, Abi, Angie &amp; Ter ...) because
you're not lookin' too good by ignoring it!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Prediction: Now that I said that, you'll come on there with some poor, pathetic excuse why you hadn't answered to any of the posts there, even though you have had ample opportunity! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[smyrna]

By the way, I geuss Stage Dirctor missed the opening post to this thread, so I'll repost it. Please note the quote about Pastor Murray "leaving identity in 1981.":

SD said:
Murray is greatly admired among CI groups because they feel he got over ... that he was smart enough to make his preaching "politically correct" enough to be tolerated by many people who'd otherwise shun racism. He's so slick he even fools the races he despises.

Well, lets see what they, CI, has to say about PM themselves, shall we?

Excerpt Quotes:
He cut his ties with Identity in 1981 or so.

He openly welcomes blacks, and other non-Whites into his church, and he even has them serve in certain secure positions within the church. There was one couple who used to go, they were complete mongrels and they wore Star of David necklaces all the time. The wife actually thought that she and her kids were good White Americans - but they looked like they snuck across the border last week.

And quote:
I was involved in SC for 10 years, went to their Passover services for years, and every year- more and more non-Whites, and less and less Whites. About half of his church are Native Americans who think they are Whites.

Quote:
Thanks for offering your insights about Arnold Murray. I'm wondering if he's all I thought he was cracked up to be. It doesn't sound that great that he's welcoming all these minorities into his congregation.

Quote:
He's strong on the one-seed Doctrine, but seriously lacking on "naming the 'jew'"; he likewise pushes far too much into the second-level, (spiritual), understanding while completely disregarding the profound importance of the first-level, (physical), portion of Scripture...

Quote:
There's been other threads about Murry, probably in the archives somewhere. My biggest disappointment is seeing non-Whites in his congregation.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/thoughts-arnold-murry-shepherds-chapel-276163p2.html?s=09ac28e079c8045c3dae3ca0f4aa63a5&amp;a mp;t=276163&amp;page=2

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Smyrna, good post!

Quote:
Now, you better get over to that thread you started, (Abi, Abi, Angie &amp; Ter ...) because
you're not lookin' too good by ignoring it!

Yeah, I'm still waiting.....</font>

[epsilonthelus]

i like how this forum reveals user IP's at each post. It helps pick out users with multiple identities

[stage_director]

Yeah, to a degree, epsil ... But most posters with multiple ids here are cunning enough to use proxies and anonymizers, so ... Actually, the fruit seems to be a pretty good revealer. ;-)

[stage_director]

QUOTE
By the way, I geuss Stage Dirctor missed the opening post to this thread, so I'll repost it. Please note the quote about Pastor Murray "leaving identity in 1981.":
END QUOTE

Murray never cut all the ties, he simply became more covert in how he delivered the message.

Such as his tie to the sister Church of Christ Christian in Decatur, ARK. His associate there Madge Britton's son went on to pastor another Church of Christ Christian in Idaho. Oh! You might know that organization in Idaho by it's more well known name ... Aryan Nation.

There's so many skeletons in Arnold Murray's closet ... he should have been an undertaker. ;-)

[smyrna]

Stage Director, you are getting really boring, with all these accusations you NEVER provide any proof of.

How's this: when you do, ever get around to providing proof of this growing list of accusations,why don't you just write a book, and send it to the NAACP, the JDL, CBS news, CNN, etc.

Maybe one day they'll listen to you. Because we don't. Only a fool would, without seeing any evidence.(like Frankie, Godchild, and the other Cultbluderers)

[godchild]

One very good piece of evidence that am is a rascist neonazi is his ministerial license. Not even smyrna can elude that. Now, unless am wants to claim he doesn't HAVE a license nor need one, that should clearly show he hasn't changed at all, but wants to appear so in order not to lose his broadcasting license.

am really needs to get out (of Arkansas) more, or at least read some good articles on global warming. For some reason, he insists (often) there is no global warming. I had to chuckle over his reasoning a couple of days ago. He said his reason for not believing in global warming is because of an ice storm he witnessed in Arkansas last winter, and how it was even knocking down the trees. He needs to expand his universe and realize the polar ice is melting at a frightening speed. It shouldn't take a very intelligent person to realize these things don't happen 'over-night'. I'm curious as to why he becomes so upset over his own mentioning of global warming during his sermons (which is supposed to be chapter and verse from the bible....I never saw global warming mentioned there). Is it just anything that governments agree upon? He should remember it's our government that allows him NOT to pay taxes. He's no different from all the other televangelists he frequently insults.

[smyrna]

"One very good piece of evidence that am is a rascist neonazi is his ministerial license. Not even smyrna can elude that. Now, unless am wants to claim he doesn't HAVE a license nor need one, that should clearly show he hasn't changed at all, but wants to appear so in order not to lose his broadcasting license."

Smyrna: I'd really like to know how Godchild can prove Murray is a racist today, because he has a ministerial license that he received forty years ago.

Maybe since Godchild was a Mormon forty years ago, we should also consider her to be still a Mormon, no matter what she says about Mormons today.

As far as can be determined, Murray NEVER was a communist sympathizer, and we do not know, nor would it matter today, what he his views on racism were forty years ago.

Stupid detractors refuse to even consider the possibility that someone can change. So if Godchild won't admit that, then she must also consider herself still a Mormon. Otherwise she has her foot in her mouth, which is a familiar position for her.

As far as global warming is concerned, Godchild once again is acting stupid.

It is a highly controversial subject, and Godchild reads a few supporting articles regarding global warming, and she acts like it is a forgone conclusionhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Maybe she should put "Global Warming Scam" into Google and start reading all the contrarian views.


What a moron.

[scisthebest]

lol calm down smyrna lol

[smyrna]

scisthebest,

Oh, I'm calm, believe me!

Hey, here is an example of what I'm talking about. Godchild is still in the "Mormon" state of mind:

Godchild wrote (post#122 (What's with the silly God's Vehicle... Thread):

"The word Celestial and ***Telestial*** is speaking of the stars."

Smyrna:

Telestial Kingdom

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The telestial kingdom is one of three "kingdoms" or "degrees of glory", in the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is an eternal status in the afterlife to which some portion of humankind will be assigned following the Resurrection and Judgment Day."

Of course, she used it incorrectly:

"The word(s) Celestial and Telestial is speaking of the stars." -GC

But of course, misusing and redefining terms is a habit for Vivian, isn't it?

Smynra: Hmmm....looks like Godchild still has that sacred Mormom underwear on,using a term exclusive to the Mormons.

Maybe she should just stick to street slang and racial slurs, since scholarly speech is way over her head.

Yeah, scisthebest, Godchild also once claimed that SD students would "martyr" Pastor Murray after he passes on to the Father!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

Sometimes I really think English is her second language, and incoherent babble is her primary!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[watchman_2]

get a clue scisthebest lol

godchild is one of Satan's own. You will notice the little 'g'.

You have been here only a short time. Many have been here for a couple of years and are very familiar with godchild. Smyrna's comment is not out of line.

[stage_director]

Right, guys ... He isn't capable of going back through the threads to glean some insight into people.

Sc, I'll tell you ... A few of the Shep Chap'lers excel in provoking people to wrath. The majority of non-SC students have been called many vile names when they originally simply wanted to discuss the differences in belief ... or asked Shep Chap'lers to document their doctrines. After a while that has a tendency to motivate other people, too, to shoot first and ask questions later. Not saying it's right, but ... most of us have our human limits. Ask yourself how long you'd remain patient if you were the target of Smyrna and Watchman, and their cheering section ... I'm afraid that after a while the other cheek you want to turn is not on your face. ;-)

[watchman_2]

stage_director, godchild, and franklin love to act like they are targets here -- victim mentality. The fact is that they are the invaders here.

If they honored their Christian duty to 'kick the dust off their feet and leave', there would be nothing for them to complain about. Instead, as one can see from the above-post by stage_director, victim mentality is preferred.

She is such a phony!

[stage_director]

lol I'm definitely not anybody's victim, sport, just another one of your targets. Good thing you can't shoot straight. Why don't you kick the dust and get to steppin' ? Think of it as your uhh, Christian duty. ;-)

[scisthebest]

lol...honestly i would love to discuss diffrence in beliefs lol actually it interests me...because on a serious note on anyone whose to say we got something right...the only one who knows the whole truth is Jesus himself not us..we can be lookin at something saying this is what it means and honestly it probably doesnt...but thats my opinion..id like someone to throw something out there and see what kinda beliefs we get..and no razzling or pickin or fighting...cant we all just get along http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif

[smyrna]

S_D wrote:

The majority of ***non-SC students have been called many vile names*** when they originally simply wanted to discuss the differences in belief ... or asked Shep Chap'lers to document their doctrines.

Smyrna: Riddle me this:

What "non-SC student" called Ter a "mongrel", Angie a "cold bich" said something to the effect of "he's a jerk, and you can add "off" to that if you wish" and any number of other vile names and terms?

Ad Hominem shomonem, Stage Detractor. Your bias is showing.

[smyrna]

S_D wrote:

"Ask yourself how long you'd remain patient if you were the target of Smyrna and Watchman, and their cheering section ... I'm afraid that after a while the other cheek you want to turn is not on your face. ;-)"

Smyrna: Hey, is that target, as in "victim"? Sure sounds like it!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

First of all, we have no "cheering section." Our sisters stand on their own, and we cheer them as they are quite adept at exposing you and your fellow detractors' foolishness.

Secondly, no matter what cheek you show us, it's gettin' slapped, figuratively,('cause maybe it will wake you up) so flash what you wish!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[stage_director]

QUOTE
we have no "cheering section.

and we cheer them
END QUOTE

lol Ride's over, so you can get off the Tilt-O-Whirl now.

[smyrna]

Heckling only shows how you are out of meaningful words and issues to raise. That's cool with me.

You can no longer defend your silly positions,you get trashed on a regular basis by those who still have the patience to engage you even though you are amazingly ignorant, and you have been exposed over and over as a schemer, liar, and have NO credibility.

[lutheratx]

I dont know if dodge bumped a thread today, isn't that crazy though, you see his name and then no post.

I geuss if they are going to do it, I will too. Here is a refresher on what known racist say about the SC. I will leave a post here because I will not try and deceive, I am bumping a thread.

[stage_director]

So let me see ... You point to a "known racist" as your idea of what's credible. That explains quite a lot, don't you think? ;-)

[lutheratx]

So I should dismiss scholarly works because you said so. What makes you so credible. I know I am not racist, so I don't need a racist to tell me I am not racist.

However Dr Strong says the word Qayin can be used for Kenite or Cain. Where did you get your doctorate Stage. It is not Murray you have to discredit here, you would have to say Doctor Strong was not a scholar. Who the heck are you? No one, get off your high horse you are just someone on the internet.

wikipedia " Dr. Strong was Professor of exegetical theology at Drew Theological Seminary at the time."

So now that I have determined that Strong was a scholar and you definitely fall short. So....

When Jesus says things like

Matthew 23 [29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
[36] Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Can we determine that this is the seed that God referred to as the serpent seed in Genesis 3 14&amp;15. According to you no, but I say you can, and who the heck are you, where is your doctorate? Why would I listen to you, no one has to listen to me.

we dont have to look up the word generation do we?

Well here is its outline in biblical usage

1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

So which words are Murray's? I used Strong's words, I used a link on the internet, not associated with Murray, and I get the same results. I don't even need the guy anymore, but I still study with him because lets face it look at my options. There are people that blow air into themselves, like you, that offer nothing. You are a nobody. The same can be said about me, however Murray has at least a million students. You are one person that just makes accusations, so suck an egg. Your accusations are ignorant, you do not know the doctrine as well as myself. You tried for the longest to say that we call all Jews kenites, when I heard just the other day Murray say there are very few kenites, not 6 million, very few. Ignorant person, you are wrong so many times about what I believe, why would any one listen to you. Judah is our very own brother and a small nation has slipped in with them and convinced them that Jesus was a false prophet. Not only that this explains why the Jews think they have the more accurate religion, from the mossarah, because they have kenite scribes writing all kinds of books, and teaching them what manner to translate books. It explains everything.

[lutheratx]

You still acknowledge the practising Jew is the only chosen people from the beginning, hey they deny Christ. I wouldn't expect you to figure this out, but this is getting so repetitious. Just go away, you are nothing but a pop shot artist, like many others, you have been put at the level of nothing more than a name caller.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
You still acknowledge the practising Jew is the only chosen people from the beginning
END QUOTE

See, that's your problem, Luther ... You keep trying to attribute things like this to what I believe when you have no idea. In the first place, there were no Jews from the beginning. There weren't even Jews from the beginning of mankind. Geeeee, try to do a little homework on this ...
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif

[lutheratx]

You are right the title Jew came about in the Babylonian captivity. However I believe that the souls of the Jews where there in the beginning, remember? I wrote that fast, and should have written that you believe that the nation chosen in Exodus is the modern day Jew and that is all.

"there were no Jews from the beginning."

Wrong they weren't called the Jews but they were there in the beginning.

Ephesians[4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

You think that I don't know who Judah is? With out looking he was one of the Patriarchs. Am I right?

I even know who those that claim to be the Jews but are the synagouge of satan are. You don't have an answer for that.

" See, that's your problem, Luther ... You keep trying to attribute things like this to what I believe when you have no idea." Stage

This is my problem huh?
OK

[lutheratx]

Stage are you a sinner that requires repentance?

[stage_director]

Absolutely. And no doubt the least in God's kingdom.

[stage_director]

There were no "Jews" on this earth until the patriarch Judah begat offspring, though no doubt the title came into play later.

How could there have been Jews in the beginning? Even if you were right, which you aren't, and the name was synonymous with Cain's kids ... where would they have gotten that title when Judah hadn't even been born yet? Did they just pick it out of the air? See, your doctrine doesn't even work by your rules ...

[lutheratx]

look just because they weren't called Jews doesn't mean they where not there in the beginning. It is simple to explain, you Stage Director were there in the beginning. However you were not stage director in the beginning, but I don't know your title then. So how am I going to call you by anything other than your title now?

You are trying to get me on a technicality, and just so you cant, by beginning I mean the beginning of this earth age.

When addressing you I will say the Jews formly known as some unknown name, were present in the first earth age. Just kidding.

Maybe I should mention that the Jew didn't pick up the name until the babylonian captivity, none the less they are the Jews and they were there in the beginning of this earth age. So with the example used for you, I should say you were not known as Stage Director until you started a war with the SC, but none the less you were there in the first earth age.

I should be more clear and I thank you for clearing that up.

I also have already cleared up what I should have said

"you believe that the nation chosen in Exodus is the modern day Jew and that is all." Lutheratx

I am not perfect. However excuse me for not thinking God is just randomly picking souls to go in certain places.

[oneway]

"I am not perfect. However excuse me for not thinking God is just randomly picking souls to go in certain places."



lutheratx, these souls you keep speaking of, when were they created? Where are they at now, these souls that haven't occupied flesh bodies as of yet? And more importantantly, if you can answer, where in the bible does it speak of this? If it's one of those mysteries where only certain people understand, don't be too concerned, sometimes I'm pretty good at understanding these mysterious mysteries.

[lutheratx]

"when were they created?"

In Genesis 1 before verse 2.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Here is what Roger says about this.

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime on the meaning of this word "void". # 2254; "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail," This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which reads; "to ruin".

"Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created.

Roger Christopherson
http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm

And the earth became totally without form and in ruins.

This is what happened to the dinosaurs, the earth is not 6000 years old.

"Where are they at now, these souls that haven't occupied flesh bodies as of yet?"

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall <u>return</u> unto God who gave it.

That one kind of kills two birds with one stone as your questions are concerned.

Here is a link to appendixes 146 (Katabole) from Bullinger's companion bible. I am certain this is where Murray learned this, because he calls this man his mentor.

Now lets get to the truth of the matter. I will except that this might not be enough for you, and that you may feel you need to correct me. You are supposed to correct those people that are in error and I will allow that. However remember while you are correcting me, that I have only seen you correct one heathen, and from then on you were his buddy. So please realise you cant pick and choose who you want to correct, unless of course the Holy Spirit has you not correcting these heathens. However I would be careful if there is a spirit that comes over you that never has you correcting heathens.

[stage_director]

Hbr 11:4
4 BY FAITH Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, BY WHICH HE OBTAINED WITNESS THAT HE WAS RIGHTEOUS, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Hbr 11:5
5 BY FAITH Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation HE HAD THIS TESTIMONY, that he pleased God.

Hbr 11:7
7 BY FAITH Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Hbr 11:8
8 BY FAITH Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hbr 11:21
21 BY FAITH Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, [leaning] upon the top of his staff.

Hbr 11:22
22 BY FAITH Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

Hbr 11:23
23 BY FAITH Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw [he was] a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

I don't see one verse that says we're justified by our race or nation. Instead, then and now we're found pleasing to God by faith.

[lutheratx]

Show me where I said the election are not of all races. Murray says Kings and Queens of the ethnos, meaning there are election in the ethnos. I think these Kings and Queens signify not only do they have the elect, but the very elect.

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

So up to this point it was not common place that Jews kept the company of a gentile. In the old testament the reason is clear, because of heathenism. Now you have to ignore large parts of the bible to realise that the ethnic people, for the most part did not serve YHVH up until the passing of Christ into his kingdom. Here is Peter saying he was calling them unclean. Peter was a disciple for goodness sake. What did Christ tell the disciples on there going out.

Mat 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

You can keep ignoring large parts of the bible to suit your beliefs, but it is wrong. You will answer for that. You cannot change God's word into something that suits you.

Read Romans 11 for goodness sakes, be happy that God is not racist.

[oneway]

lutheratx, since I'm doing some soul searching tonight, what about those souls that occupy pregnant mothers, then are aborted, or those souls
that occupy infants that die prematurely?
I thought the whole purpose of this second earth age was to give souls from the first earth age another chance. How do you explain this?

[lutheratx]

I thought the whole purpose of this second earth age was to give souls from the first earth age another chance. How do you explain this?

Your right and I cant explain it all, however there is the millennium, where many answers to questions like this will be given. God knows those spirits in those children, and knows whether they are going to need the millennium or not. I do not. It is a perfect plan though, so God has it under control.

[stage_director]

QUOTE

Your right and I cant explain it all, however there is the millennium, where many answers to questions like this will be given. God knows those spirits in those children, and knows whether they are going to need the millennium or not. I do not. It is a perfect plan though, so God has it under control.
END QUOTE

Good answer, Luther.

Oneway, Murray teaches those souls get a "free ride" and explains that "some souls were just too good for this earth" ... meaning that they stood against Satan and yet didn't need to be born. I have no idea how he documents that ...

[lutheratx]

"meaning that they stood against Satan and yet didn't need to be born." SD

Never listen to a meaning a critic of a man, gives about a subject the man teaches. For the record Murray say he thinks, what he is actually doing is he is consoling those that have lost a baby. He is not a monster. He is watched by many and some have lost a baby, how comforting would it be to a mother if she heres a pastor saying her lost child was to good for this world and deserved a free ride. However I have never seen him say this for abortion. I don't know if I agree with him, I also don't know if he agrees with him, as a matter of fact I think he say it could be........

[dodge]

Luther, you misspelled "hear," and instead wrote "heres." You misspelled "too," and instead wrote "to." Your sentence structure and syntax is appalling.

(Just giving to you what you put out to others. Seems fair to me.)

[lutheratx]

right but stage misspelling antisemitic is a little bit different. I don't claim to teach spelling and gramar.

[dodge]

It's a typographical error, and for you to point that out and make an issue out of it shows you to be petty and mean-spirited. Do you have anything of significance to share right now?

[smyrna]

I do. I appreciate Luther bumping this threa, and I also appreciate Stage Director's incredibly narrow minded and silly excuse, along with the other CBers,which is why would anyone to believe avowed racists when they express their extreme disatisfaction with Pastor Murray and the SC, because they aren't part of the Identity movement, they arn't racist, that the SC allows non-whites into the Church and even under the employment of the SC, like in the bookstore.

Of coruse, they can't explain why thse racists would lie about something like that.

The closest to anyone trying is when one of them said maybe its so they have a voice on global TV, which is incredibly ridiculous, as the racist also expressed disappointment that SC
actually teaches equality!

So Luther has done a very good thing bumping this thread, because it shows so well how silly and ridiculous Stage Director and the other CBers can be, and how their weak attempts at spinning off solid evidence has failed them.

[llm]

Christ in us is the mystery of the body of Christ. It doesn't matter what race you belong to, if you have Christ then you are his. The racialists take things too literal in that they think race matters when it comes to Christ and his body. There will be whites, blacks, reds and browns all living in the holy city in the presence of God and Christ. If Arnold gets into heaven, he may have to live next door to Desmond Tutu.

[lutheratx]

"It's a typographical error" Dodge

If I was on a crusade to stop antisemitism I would have probably googled the word 50 times, meaning I would not misspell it. See this is just a small thing but if you add a bunch of small things together, you start getting the picture. She doesn't care what other obviously racist churches believe, they can hate who ever they want. She will say almost anything Murray says is wrong. She accuses him of misuse of money, but doesn't seem to care about the others that are being investigated. She always say Murray says this or that but I don't know where he gets his documentation. Many accusations come from her, with never a link. The constant stereotyping of the people that study with Murray, until I brought it to her attention. (You remember the typical mean nasty scer she used to use so much) She hardly ever corrects other people, even though llm to me is more antisemitic than anybody here, claims that hebrew isn't the language of the Old testament, and says the majority of the Jews are this or that. She is against false doctrine but has no problem with people like foak or you for that matter. It says nothing to you, but it speaks volumes to me.

I am sorry I am not on your level of intellect please have patience with me, oh highly educated deist. I just hope that I am able to share something significant.

She maybe your buddy dodge, but I long for the day when she is corrected. I just hope for her sake she is corrected, and not destroyed. I will not wish her well, I want her to fail currently. Hey when people live there lifes to make enemies, guess what they'll get some.

[oneway]

"She doesn't care what other obviously racist churches believe, they can hate who ever they want. She will
say almost anything Murray says is wrong. She accuses him of misuse of money, but doesn't seem to care about the others that are being investigated. She always say
Murray says this or that but I don't know where he gets his documentation. Many accusations come from her, with never a link."




lutheratx, try putting 2 and 2 together for once.
I'll try to give you an example to make my point.

Suppose I was a former JW, and I was a little higher in the ranks than the typical JW that goes door to door. Suppose I knew a lot of things typical JWs were unaware of, some things that I really couldn't prove to the typical JW, but things that were true nonetheless. Now suppose one day that the Lord opened my eyes to the truth about this org and it's teachings.
So I decided to get out. And since I now knew the truth, I wanted other JWs to see that truth also.
I felt that I needed to intervene on their behalf.
Would that be so bad? Would that be so selfish of me, that I spent more of my time dealing with JWs than say with Mormons?

Either you can see what I'm trying to say or you can't. I'll just leave it at that.

(Message edited by oneway on December 24, 2007)

[stage_director]

QUOTE
"She doesn't care what other obviously racist churches believe, they can hate who ever they want. She will say almost anything Murray says is wrong. She accuses him of misuse of money, but doesn't seem to care about the others that are being investigated. She always say Murray says this or that but I don't know where he gets his documentation. Many accusations come from her, with never a link."
END QUOTE

I don't know as much about many of those other churches, I don't even know that I have a major problem with some of them. Still, they are already being closely scrutinized by outside factions ... while I don't think Arnold Murray is getting nearly the attention he deserves. Not to mention, he's been able to fly below the radar for a long time by trying to hide and/or remove his questionable teachings from the public. Sooo ... I think I'll just stick with the "church" I know for a fact is a soul stealing false ministry.

[lutheratx]

You know stage hides her credentials, but throws a fit because Murray doesn't tell his. So where are you getting this information Oneway, speculation?

Let me assure you she does not know the doctrine as well as I do, if anybody out of the two of us was to see secrets that the public doesn't know about it would be me. She says Roger Christopherson calls all Jews kenites, she is wrong about that, she got her info by taking one sentence out of context. She says that Murray says brother Judah is someone else other than the ones who practise Judaism, but I have heard him say when refering to them being deceived, "are we to hate brother Judah, no that would be stupid indeed." I have heard him say the kenites are very small in number. Oneway there are 6 million Jews in Israel alone this is a small number compared to the caucasions but not a small number by any other means. He deffinately doesn't call all Jews kenites. He told us about them being small so we would realise how hard it would be to identify them. He teaches the parable of the tares when he mentions the kenite sometimes, he knows we are not to gather them up because they grow right beside the good wheat. (brother Judah)

Just remember how she tried to prove Roger Christopherson calls all Jews kenites, by taking that sentence out of context. This is how she does her business bro. I know the doctrine of British Israelism, and I know that Murray teaches that.

[llm]

Why say racist hate when you can say racialist love. Most people prefer to be amoung their own kind. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to hate others just to prefer your own people. I have wonderful Christian friends of
many races. But the impression I get from SC is they think the anglo-tribes are the only ones who will own the real estate around the temple of Christ in the holy city during the millenium. That the other races will get to visit, but they will have their mansions elsewhere, and their "kings and queens" will represent them in Christ's temple. This seems like the ultimate form of racisim to me.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
But the impression I get from SC is they think the anglo-tribes are the only ones who will own the real estate around the temple of Christ in the holy city during the millenium. That the other races will get to visit, but they will have their mansions elsewhere, and their "kings and queens" will represent them in Christ's temple. This seems like the ultimate form of racisim to me.
END QUOTE

That's what he teaches. His quotes about it are on the 'Teachings of Arnold Murray' thread ...

[smyrna]

LLM is way out there, as usual. In the spirit, there are no races, pure and simple. The spiritual state of Israel is what is addressed in Ezekiel and elsewhere, not some flesh race. How can you have race in the spirit without flesh?

It's ridiculous, and I heard Murray address this very same subject yesterday morning, so both you and Stage Director, as usual, are interjecting your own silly perceptions into what he, and the Bible teach.

Ultimate in racism? What a stupid, foolish, and ignorant thing to claim, and if you think that is what is being taught, you can stuff it.

[llm]

Arnold refers to the elect ones of the promise "from umbilical chord to umbilical chord".

[smyrna]

"Arnold refers to the elect ones of the promise "from umbilical chord to umbilical chord".'

That's BULL, pay closer attention when you watch the program, genius. He was referring to the MESSIAH, that's right, Jesus Christ, not "the elect". What the hell is wrong with you? Can't you pay closer attention, or are just hearing what you want to hear?

Or are you twisting what is said during the program on purpose, like Stage Director does?

If you can't handle the attention level it takes to get things right, then change the channel and watch TBN.

[oneway]

"In the spirit, there are no races, pure and simple."- smyrna

"You are right the title Jew came about in the Babylonian captivity. However I believe that the souls of the Jews where there in the beginning, remember?"- lutheratx


According to lutheratx, there appears to be Jewish souls. Does this also mean that there are oriental souls, negroid souls, caucasion souls, etc?
If one is going to accept the theological view of the SC, then one would have to almost believe that God has souls already segregated, ready to insert into the proper flesh body...caucasion souls into caucasion flesh bodies..Jewish souls into Jewish flesh bodies..etc.
Is this the way God does it??

[stage_director]

That's exactly it, Oneway. Murray teaches that the elect, later born as Adamic caucasians, stood against Satan. The ethnic people with a few exceptions, and the "non caucasian" white folks were mainly fence sitters. The evil Kenite/Jewish folks, and of course people like Murray detractors, stood with Satan. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif Yeah, apparently there's a lot more than 66 books in Murray's version of the word.

[llm]

So what you are saying is that it will be "Christans" of all the ethnos that will inhabit the holy city and not the literal 12 tribes of Israel...even though thir names are used to define the territory in Ezekiel, the portions are spiritual, not literal. Is that what Arnold teaches.

[smyrna]

Wallow in your own BS, Stage Director. LLM is certainly gullible enough to listen to you.

After all, he thinks that the sun and all the stars orbit the earth.

Good thing no one else will.

[llm]

http://www.geocentricity.com/

There are lots of those who believe it. Does it suprise you that most of the world can be deceived about something. They all believed it in Jesus day as well. The bullet earth is a Johnny come lately theory (1500's) kind of like the rapture.

(Message edited by llm on December 27, 2007)

[smyrna]

Uh, in case you forgot, llm, I asked you a question you never answered, months ago,how do scientists calculate with great precision, exactly where to land a lunar or martian probe, based upon the movements of the earth, moon, and mars, if none of those bodies are moving?

And no, I don't want to see another divinepageant link again.

[llm]

Who says the moon and mars are not moving. The earth is the reference point.

[arron]

murray difinatly teaches that the jews are kinites and that the u.s. canada and england are the real tribes of isreal. well if that is so he better check agian FOR JESUS WAS A JEW, OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH AND HIS ANSESTERY IF TRACED ALL THE WAY BACK TO ADAM AND OF COURSE EVE. he truly is against the jew. i am white by the way and we have blaceks and others that attend our church we are going to heaven because we are born again and we dont just think it with our minds we know by faith IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS tha we are saved. and this foolish doctrine of the mark of the beast being in the mind and not on the head as the bible teaches is pure nonsense, what about the hand that is never mentioned although he claims to teach the bible in its entireity i heard him say this morning that ther was a verse in isaiah that was not right so he gave what it was supposed to say useing strongs concorance and bullingers notes and the companion bible. i have both and never have found such trash as this except in the companion bible notes that bullinger wrote. he also belives that GOD rides in a vehicle and not on angels like the bible says. he must belive in astrology too as far as i can get from his mixed up doctrines.

[llm]

Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and Levi. In other words He was a Ukrainian/Swiss. http://www.bibletribes.org/

Most "christian zionists" are already decieved by antichrist. There is no rapture Aaron.

[smyrna]

"Who says the moon and mars are not moving. The earth is the reference point."

That does not answer the question. Now will you, or will you not, answer the question?

I will rephrase it for clarity:

Scientists calculate just where to land space probes on the moon and mars, and elsehwere in the solar system.

They do so using a moving earth, as well as taking into consideration the other bodies' orbits around the SUN.

How can they do this, if, as you say, all planetary bodies orbit an "unmoveable" earth?

[llm]

http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/ds1_mgr.shtml

Because they are nuts. But things are changing fast.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/06/21/suborbital.test/index.html

[arron]

llm... you are nuts

[llm]

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/2619091735425110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

So are these folks, but eventually they will be able to take off into space from an air strip in any direction...and steer straight to the moon!

[stage_director]

llm, if you don't mind my asking ... what is it exactly that you believe, and why?

[smyrna]

More smokescreens, llm. Just like your last appearances here. Just answer the question, instead of posting links to lunatics.

Scientists calculate just where to land space probes on the moon and mars, and elsehwere in the solar system.

They do so using a moving earth, as well as taking into consideration the other bodies' orbits around the SUN.

How can they do this, if, as you say, all planetary bodies orbit an "unmoveable" earth?

Now, will you answer the question, and not with a comment such as "because they are nuts"? Because that is ridiculous. Nuts don't land space probes on the moon and mars.

[llm]

SD, the bible is geocentric and I believe what it says.

http://www.fixedearth.com/sixty-seven%20references.htm
http://www.fixedearth.com

[llm]

here are some examples

a) "SUN, stand THOU still.... And THE SUN stood still." (Joshua 10:12,13)

b) "The world also is STABLISHED [i.e.,"fixed" #3529 Strong's Con.] that
IT CANNOT BE MOVED." (Psalm 93:1)

c) "The sun AND the moon stood still in their habitation." (Habakkuk 3:11)

d) "He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his GOING DOWN." (Psalm 104:19)

e) "...the world also shall be stable [fixed], that it be NOT moved." (I Chron. 16:30)

f) "He...hangeth the earth upon nothing." (Job 26:7)

g) "The sun ALSO ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hastens to
his place where he arose." (Eccl.1:5)

h) "...so the sun RETURNED ten degrees...." (Isaiah 38:8)

i) God..."commandeth the sun, and it riseth not." (Job 9:7)

j) "...the sun shall be darkened in his going forth." (Isaiah 13:10)

k) "The heavens declare the glory of God.... In them hath He set a tabernacle for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his CIRCUIT [orbit] unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (Psalm 19:1,4-6)

[llm]

Well, swrnya, because the times and the orbits of the moon and mars are pretty locked in. And if your timing is right you just point and shoot.

[smyrna]

I wonder how NASA scientists would like it to hear their jobs described as "just pointing and shooting" when they send probes to planets we can barely see with the naked eye.

[llm]

Would you at least admit that the bible is geocentric...and if you won't, then find us one scripture that says otherwise.

[llm]

You can even search the Apocrypha if you like, since it was part of the Bible that Jesus used...


2 Esdras Chap. IV -Verse 34

...great is the earth,
high is the heaven,
swift is the sun in his course,
for he compasseth [circles]
the heavens round about
and fetcheth [returns with]
his course again
to his own place in one day.

[dobman53]

IIm: 2 esdra is a book written by men about God. Not devine, though not meant to be mistruthful either.

Asronomy is one of my favorite subjects. Years ago their was a therory that didn't follow Genisis in the formation of the universe. At the time I can remember thinking this can't be so for if it was it made God out to be untrue.

I thought to myself I'm not going to believe this theory. Though saddly I kept this fact to myself. Not wanting to be looked upon by my faith in God as a fool concerning science.

The way things are changing these days with better and better computers. That theory was later proven to be false.

Since that time if ever a theory is presented that doesn't reflect God properly. I blast them in their foolishness.

The Bible has no such sayings in it that are not all provable facts. We ourselves are weak in mind at times, but never GOD!!

The bible mentions the earth is round held up by nothing. God did not give us a science book. Though every word out of his mouth is true.

The apocrypha was the writings of men and men alone. They weren't out to decieve in their writings, for I believe their hearts were in the right place. Just the same they were but just men. DOB!

[llm]

DOBMAN, here are 2 bible scriptures that say the same thing as Esdras, not to mention many other scriptures. Although, I disagree with your opinion that Esdras is not Divine, since Jesus and his apostles all used the LXX, and all the New Testament quotes from the Old Testament are from the Septuagint LXX that contained the Apocrypha.

"The sun ALSO ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hastens to
his place where he arose." (Eccl.1:5)

"The heavens declare the glory of God.... In them hath He set a tabernacle for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his CIRCUIT [orbit] unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (Psalm 19:1,4-6)

[smyrna]

LLM, fails to realize, and he was told this before on his last go around here months ago, that the Bible verses he quotes were written by men that perceived the Sun and the other heavenly bodies as they saw it, not as science has shown it to behave centuries later. They were merely making figurative references, and that is all.

He still has yet to explain how scientists can calculate where to send a probe to Mars, the Moon, or other plants, based upon their orbits around the Sun, not earth. He says they "just point and shoot". What an idiot!

Science has proven that there are other suns with planets that orbit around them, yet this nut actually still clings to this insane geocentric theory.

He acts as if this stuff has never been argued out here. It has, I'm not sure what thread it was on, it has nothing to do at all with Pastor Murray and the SC, so this digression of his is not only intrusive, it is not even relevant.

[llm]

According to you the bible is the word of man and not the word of God. There are direct scriptural references about the movement of the sun, and that the earth cannot be moved. Do you think the earth was moving on the day when God created it? You have to add to the word of God by saying “it only appears that way” to justify your unscriptural opinion. Just because NASA can shoot a rocket off the face of the earth and steer it to someplace in space that is locked in to it's orbit, is nothing that even private companies will be able to do and are doing with rocket jets. And they won't even have to do it the same way as NASA does. They will just take off from any landing strip. You like Murray follow these NASA high priests of origins who worship frauds like Einstein. You’re the one who keeps bringing up this subject over and over again, not me. I just go by the bible “as it is written”.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/2619091735425110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

[llm]

You have the Kaballah in one hand and the Recabite bible in the other (and you trust these sources?). I hold the Lxx/Septuagint in one hand, and the annointed New Testament in the other. I do not take much of your teaching seriously.(since the NT quotes of the OT are lxx,
you have a real denial going on regarding the true source of Gods Word). I don't expect you to see the light. So we should just drop the subject-until the next time you bring it up.

[dobman53]

IIm: The above quoate of this man running a race. Is a picture for mans eye to see. Many times in the Bible parables are used to shed more light on the given text. Often the underlying thoughts of a given parable convey more than the story's actual telling.

Here again with said parable, the underlying thought was not of a scientific principable. But more of a message on which nothing is hid from God.

Should a person long to make jests about Gods purpose. They will one day find it was all in vein. Keep God close to your heart, and try not to catch yourself up in these conundrums. There's a better way to plant seeds. DOB!

[stage_director]

QUOTE
LLM, fails to realize, and he was told this before on his last go around here months ago, that the Bible verses he quotes were written by men
END QUOTE

Uhh, yeah I think Smyrna speaks a mouthful here about where he's coming from, too, llm.

[stage_director]

llm, if I understand you correctly ... basically a huge part of your point is that this planet is the center of the physical universe, and the planets, stars, solar systems, etc. were placed in the universe to "frame" the earth?

[smyrna]

Taking my words out of context and giving them your own spin is a cheap tactic, Stage Director. But we are used to you using dirty tactics.

Unless you want to deny the Bible was written by men, and was written by a lightning bolt from the sky or something, one would have to admit that the Bible, though inspired by God, was written for men, by men, and written so people can understand it.

Therefore, when it comes to astronomical phenomena, as pertains to verses regarding the sun, it was written not with scientific precision in mind, but in a didactic sense that relates to what lesson that was being taught, or in the case of the Psalms, as words of praise.

But if Stage Director wants to believe that all stars and planets, even planets orbiting other suns, wants to think all those bodies orbit an unmovable earth, then that is her choice.

And it looks like Dobman is agreeing with me,which is wise, since the scientific world does too, as well as theologians.

So maybe everyone should just reject science and conventional theology on this issue, and just claim that Stage Director and LLM have the answer, all others are wrong.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[llm]

http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Genesis/index.html

Creation began where the earth was, where God stood. Where God is there is the center of the universe. The sun wasn't created until the 4th day (4000 years later, according to SC.) What was the earth moving around during that time? They are the ones who throw out common sense for the theory of the big bang kabal. I always liked what John Prine had to say; "It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more!"

[stage_director]

Smyrna ... I swear, your ignorance is only surpassed by your big mouth. Why don't you shut up and let llm explain what he thinks without heckling him? You constantly try to control what is permitted by way of discussion around here, and you have such a wee narrow mind you try to squash conversation on all you don't understand. Frankly, you might have fit right into the Inquisition, the way you try to dictate what we all may examine and ponder. Well, la de da ... Excuse me, but I'm quite able to hear or consider new ideas without your dire predictions and constant sarcasm. Apparently my ability to converse about a variety of subjects and ideas without finding them threatening is a bit broader than yours ... and gee, I might actually learn something, too. I want to hear why llm thinks what he thinks, and since your closed little mind already knows everything ... buzz off.

[dobman53]

IIm: Above I stated things in regards to the Apocrypha. I feel the book of Estdra's had a devine penman. Though at the same time I feel some where along the line a few things might have been tampered with. Just my personal thoughts though.

Here's some food for thought. Technically the sun is on a circular motion of it's own. The sun being a star as with all stars, are on merry-go round like motion rising up and below the galatic plain of the Milky-Way galaxy circling it's black hole core. Each revolution of the Milky Way takes 250 million years.

This being a know fact of science again proves God knows all. In our limited minds we could be lead to think that the Bible is false, because 100 years ago we knew nothing about the universe, and if one were to present the facts as you now prepose to. It could be said AH! HA! the bible is wrong cause we know the earth revolves around the sun. Only to then find out later the sun does have it's place in motion after all.

IIm: I'm in hopes that your not thinking your to big for your britches. Remember both you and I have small minds when compared to GOD.

DOBMAN!!

[llm]

Yes, Dobman53, Edsras is divine. It was the Edomite Kenite scribes that massaged the Lxx Septuagint into the Masorite Text between 500 and 1000 years after Christ. Jesus and his gang used the lxx. This is evident by the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament.

[dobman53]

IIm: another food for thought. The Big Bang is now under suspicion. As our computers have advanced so has the model for the big bang. 90% still hold on to the theory, but just the same many are now finding flaws in the numbers crunch.

My feelings at present are in the vien of the bigger out telescopes get, the bigger the universe gets.

We are now in the beginning stages with a new telescope that is binocular in fashion. Two 8+ meter mirrors that promise to out do Hubel, which is our space telescope. I think it's here in about 4 to 5 years they plan to launch the next orbiting telescope. If I'm not mistaken it will be 7+ meters, while Hubel is 2.5 meters.

The present universe is exspanding. They can't figure out why! They came up with a dark energy theory to explain it. Though dark energy is undetectable without any way to measure it, other than through velocity times mass. Somethings making the universe exspand, they just don't know what.

Perhaps the universe is without end. no beginning no end. Sorta sounds like God is the big bang after all. Of course scientist, at least most that is, won't give God any credit for anything.

DOBMAN

p.s. Estras is a book I refure to on occasion. What the heck I like Bel and the Dragon as well!!

[smyrna]

SD wrote:

"Why don't you (Smyrna) shut up and let llm explain what he thinks without heckling him? You constantly try to control what is permitted by way of discussion around here...."

That is a lie. LLM had his day in the Sun, no matter what he thinks that orb does or doesn't do.

I'm not, nor can I stop you from "pondering" whether geocentrism is a true fact of nature or not.

My point is that he comes back here with that same old drivel, and acts like he never vomited that garbage on the forums before. The fact is he has, and we spent too many posts addressing that crap. And he lost, and disappeared for months.

"Excuse me, but I'm quite able to hear or consider new ideas without your dire predictions and constant sarcasm."

Hate to break it to you, but geocentrism is NOT a "new idea" Where have you been?

And now you have a problem with sarcasm? Let me guess, because I'm using it? But when you do, it's just perfectly cool, huh?

HYPOCRITE:

"Yeah, apparently there's a lot more than 66 books in Murray's version of the word." (SD, post #1950 above, for just one example.)

Of course, I don't blame you for wanting to divert from the initial topic here. Because it amounts to yet another failure for SC detractors.

It also shows how foolishly they tried to spin off the Stormfront comments.

It is both revealing and very entertaining, to see them twist and squirm, using every excuse in the book to try and nullify the testimonies of admitted racists and antisemitic people, that the SC is NOT with them.

It stands as one of the very best of our efforts to show how silly, dishonest, and repugnant the tactic of the detractors, including yourself, can be.

Yeah, who can blame you for wanting to follow such a silly digression as to question whether geocentrism has any validity or not.

Hey, why don't you throw in the Flat Earth theory or the Hollow Earth theory as well?
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

How about it, LLM? There are websites for those too!http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

http://www.ourhollowearth.com/

Go ahead, Stage Director, ponder and consider some more "new ideas"! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[quench]

Do unto others as you shall have them do unto you!

So I have a new Motto!

"Like I have said many times, the only people that don't have a problem with the Chapel are whack jobs on the Internet, because that is the only platform they have to spout off about their absurd opinions." Unless they want AM to pull a gun off in thier face.

[smyrna]

Now you see Quench, you have just revealed yourself as yet another detractor, and not someone coming here with an open mind and throughly understanding the focus of the discussions.

It is quite apparent that you have not read about the gun incident.

No, you have not even realized that no gun was ever produced on camera. You have not realized that an intruder that disrupted a broadcast by pretending he was merely an interested guest in the audience, and would not leave peacefully, and scuffled with studio assistants.

You fail to compare that incident with any other TV studio faced with such intrusions, including TBN, EWTN, and other religious oriented network studios who have armed guards at their disposal.

OR,

You are a detractor who has been here before coming under a new screen name, which will come out if you keep on your course.

I wanted to add I highly suspect the latter, since you just happened to come here and immediately jumped on the SC detractor bandwagon, and going directly to a thread that had been dead since December 21st.

And now you post the same crap they all do, about us SCers being racist and other drivel.

We will figure out who you are, because you clowns always slip up sooner or later. You'll use the same phrase, or unique punctuations, even forget to use your anonymizer to hide your IP.

We'll get you, if you think you can get away with it, you are wrong.

(Message edited by smyrna on January 05, 2008)

[quench]

smyrna I want to say BRAVO! I have nothing but positive things to say about you.
You are GREAT at not listening.
Your FANTASTIC at insulting people.
Your debate schools are WONDERFULLY underhanded and SUPERBLY unfair.
You are a FINE example of non-christian virtue.

[smyrna]

And YOU are Dodge/Zarquan/Quench You are too easy, man.

Now you can "quench" yourself with some more Kool-aid.

Yeah man, don't hide the fact you know me. Don't hide the fact I relish debate. And don't forget that members have had to resign on here since the recent crash, and you just chose a new name.

[quench]

No baby I am actually a NEW member, tell me more about the purple Kool-Aid! You guys look so KOOL drinking it!

[smyrna]

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are the guy with the purple lightning bolt. No, I won't insult you that badly. How about it, Zarquan, get my drift?

[quench]

Don't mind smyrna she/he is just auditioning for a movie called "Look Who's CRAZY 2". Whuts the matter puddin' can't take what you dish?

Seriously I hate to even stoop to your level I just thought I'd give you a taste of what you will get if you try to talk to me in the same disrespectful insulting manner that you talk to eveybody else that disagrees with you.

And for the life of me I don't understand why you are so paranoid that you can't possibly believe that a new member would join this discussion! Maybe I'll play along and really mess with your mind by pretendng to actually be some of these members that you think I am, will it drive you straight jacket crazy?

I'd rather deal with you with kindness and respect and honesty I only wish I could get the same treatment in return.

SO WHAT WILL IT BE? You wanna go at it like 2 rival alpha males competing for the same female, or some 7th grade girls fighting in a locker room or do you want to go at this with some maturity and mutual respect? And before you get your fingers hot typing your next insult to me so that you can reclaim your domain and reign supreme, let me reiterate that today you have met your match!

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">Hey Smyrna, I am leaning towards the purple lightening bolt! lol</font>

[smyrna]

Hi Ter,

The guy with the artificially inflated gonads could be either our purple "unen-lightning" bolt or just another Dodge/Zarquan incarnation. Maybe even another Ultimate1. Who cares?

But no matter, if we put the guess who game aside, what we have left is nothing new.

This guy says I have met my match. Hey, there has been a parade of "matches" that have gone through here, as you know, but none have any new material. Same old same old.

So maybe he can play with someone else, since the first two things he has brought up, the gun thing and the racist drivel, has been discussed, and refuted, whether he wants to think so or not, ad nauseum in the what, 30k posts here?

Hey Quench, your thirst for confrontation will have to be quenched somewhere or with someone else.

Because whether you are new or old,rich or poor, male or female, or somewhere inbetween all of those, your material is ancient history. Been there, done that. Get it?

[oneway]

"The guy with the artificially inflated gonads could be either our purple "unen-lightning" bolt or just another Dodge/Zarquan incarnation. Maybe even another Ultimate1. Who
cares?"


smyrna, I'll make another deal with you, if quench is franklin, then there really are Kenites stalking mankind today. Deal..or no deal?

[quench]

"Now you see Quench, you have just revealed yourself as yet another detractor, and not someone coming here with an open mind and throughly understanding the focus of the discussions. "

"Detractor"? Is that in the SC manual? I do not know how you could have confused me as someone that follows the teachings of AM or any other preacher when I clearly said I was not!

"It is quite apparent that you have not read about the gun incident."

It is quite apparent that you can't take a joke, regardless of the facts AM will 4ever be known as the gun toting preacher!

"No, you have not even realized that no gun was ever produced on camera."

No just threatened to produce a gun! Need there be a gun produced on camera when he threatened to produce one on tape?

"You have not realized that an intruder that disrupted a broadcast by pretending he was merely an interested guest in the audience, and would not leave peacefully, and scuffled with studio assistants."

No one has thus proven the identity or purpose of the man, but assuming you are right all he did was ask questions and disagree with the man to call someone that walked through the door freely without protest an intruder is just as unfair, and to say he was threatning when it is not on camera is just as unfair, an intruders breaks in, this man did not break in. Why should he leave? Even Jesus Christ HIMSELF had to deal with unruly people questioning his authority, and Jesus either answered them or fled himself or both, is AM above Jesus? If Jersus had to defend and answer to the things he said why is AM so special that he does not have to do the same?

"You fail to compare that incident with any other TV studio faced with such intrusions, including TBN, EWTN, and other religious oriented network studios who have armed guards at their disposal."

Is this discusion board named TBN? This is like saying other criminals break the law and escape Justice why do I have to go to jail?

"You are a detractor who has been here before coming under a new screen name, which will come out if you keep on your course."

Now who sounds like a broken record?

"I wanted to add I highly suspect the latter, since you just happened to come here and immediately jumped on the SC detractor bandwagon, and going directly to a thread that had been dead since December 21st."

Dec. 21st of 2007 that is only a few weeks you act like I revived a 5 year old post. If I was a "detracter" wouldn't I have said everything I wanted to say already? Why would I go to old dead post and add my 2 cents... unless I am new and want to get in on the conversation? Hmmm? we must use logic not paranoia when we make our conclusions, right? By the way, nowhere does it say that I have to whorship, or follow or believe in SC or AM in order to join the discussion, that may be a big surprise to you, but its the truth!

"And now you post the same crap they all do, about us SCers being racist and other drivel."

Who post the same crap? Are you having a Robert Deniro moment?

"We will figure out who you are, because you clowns always slip up sooner or later. You'll use the same phrase, or unique punctuations, even forget to use your anonymizer to hide your IP."

I have been officially threatened by the leader of the goons, too bad you can't break out your gun and toss me out!

"We'll get you, if you think you can get away with it, you are wrong."

Are you going to kill me? Am I going to wind up dead on the toilet? If I do your words are here for all the world to see and you IP is on blast just like everybody else's. How hard will it be to track down you? I suscpect that you are either AM or someone in the family.

[quench]

If all you get is the same old drivel Why do you come here day in day out?

If ye yourself do not QUENCH for confrontation to make your own penis hard, then why do you respond time and time again?

I'll have to admit that eventually I will leave you to your life on this board because unlike you I have a REAL life and REAL friends in the REAL world! You WILL go back to being the HBIC with your "friends" on guard for you. But in the meantime things might not be so comfy it might actually feel as bad as your REAL life around here!

I'll give you one more chance to choose PEACE instead of a Gun... I mean sword. (off camera of course)

[terluvire]

<font color="0000ff">I don't know Smyrna, It's a toss up between "purple lightening bolt" and "Dodge". Time will tell.

But you're right, this one has brought up nothing new, only the same stuff which has been debated 1000's of times and defeated.</font>

[quench]

All you need is one more defeat to earn your Murray Gold Star Gun Badge, keep up the good work guys, its Good that we still have soldiers fighting on the frontlines to defend our good Lord Murray.

[aviyah]

LLM,

I can agree with your conclusions about the scattering of the tribes of Israel except for Russia being Judah. Just wondering, where do you put the Edomites today?

God Bless, AviYAH

[llm]

http://www.bibletribes.org/

Ukraine, Russia, Armenia, etc...came to Christ first on a national level....to Judah first...

I put the offspring of Esau (Khazars, Ahkenazi...) and Cain in the holy land today with Benjamin. If you read Judges 19,20,21. You will see how Benj. joined with the sons of the devil. One day Judah (Russia) will attack Benjamin(israel)...

[lutheratx]

"I'll give you one more chance to choose PEACE instead of a Gun... I mean sword. (off camera of course)" Quench

Look dude an SC student doesn't want to be your buddy, and I assure you if you attack the doctrine we think is of Christ, then guess what the last thing I for one want from you is peace. Hey bud you are nothing but a man with his own words.

2nd John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

You may even be a righteous man, but you are a loser in these debates. However even if you are a righteous man.

Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

There is no way a Christian, that is in there right mind, would want peace with someone that is going against what they percieve to be the doctrine of Christ. I cant speak for Smyrna but I can say I think when it comes to the word of God more than likely you are a chump.

[dobman53]

Dear quench: Your command of biblical sciptures is without parallel. You tower amongst giants of theology past, and present. The shadow you cast has no end. Should we look up the word (light) in the dictionary, we shall find your picture.

Oh Oh wait a minute. I ment that for smyrna!

Quench your a piece of trash. DIG!

Stroll in like a god thinking you know all things. I'll even bet you know at least 2 or 3 scriptures by heart.

I'm in AHHHH!!! of your knowledge.

Teach me more of your ignorance. Please!

What's that you say. Oh I see! you've been watching Benny Hinn for darn near 2 years, so I better watch out!

And what's that again! Oh! you even send him money too!

Praise the Lord my fellow students. we have a new leader!!! the king of kings has come at last!

quench care to dance!

Your faithful servant DOB.

[stage_director]

QUOTE
smyrna I want to say BRAVO! I have nothing but positive things to say about you.
You are GREAT at not listening.
Your FANTASTIC at insulting people.
Your debate schools are WONDERFULLY underhanded and SUPERBLY unfair.
You are a FINE example of non-christian virtue.
END QUOTE

Well, they sure didn't confuse you with someone else, sport! ;-)

[quench]

Dear DOB: Your command of biblical sciptures is without parallel. You tower amongst giants of theology past, and present. The shadow you cast has no end. Should we look up the word (light) in the dictionary, we shall find your picture.

Oh Oh wait a minute. I ment that for stage_director!


DOB your a piece of trash. DIG!

Stroll in like a god thinking you know all things. I'll even bet you know at least 2 or 3 scriptures by heart.

I'm in AHHHH!!! of your knowledge.

Teach me more of your ignorance. Please!

What's that you say. Oh I see! you've been watching Benny Hinn for darn near 2 years, so I better watch out!

And what's that again! Oh! you even send him money too!

Praise the Lord my fellow students. we have a new leader!!! the king of kings has come at last!

DOB care to dance!

Your faithful servant QUENCH.

[dodge]

Hi Quench -- What do you expect? If you come here and criticize these ShepChaps and denigrate their deeply-held beliefs, you will find that they will go for the jugular rhetorically. They know their Bible, and are very good debaters, especially Smyrna and Watchman. If you really wanted to come here in peace, you would be more civil and approach their world view with respect. I’ve been an outspoken critic of Arnold Murray and the Shepherds Chapel in the past; but after reading every thread in this forum over the past couple of years and going out of my way in an attempt at understanding them, I’ve come to the conclusion that they have the right to their beliefs and I don’t blame them for aggressively defending themselves. In my opinion they are harmless religious fanatics with some unorthodox interpretations of the Bible.

If I may ask, Quench, what is your particular belief system? I’m a lapsed Catholic, but not an atheist. I’ve described myself as a “Gnostic” in the past; but even that word somehow does not define my world view. Of course, if you are indeed the Purple Lightning Bolt then all is moot.

[dodge]

It IS you, Franklin! I can tell by your last post, the way you repeat what a previous poster has written, and throw it back at them. It is quintessentially Franklin, most typical of your style. I knew you would be back under a new user name.

[dobman53]

My Oh My: Is this such a surprise. Or old buddy dodge and his long lost brand new friend.

Dodge you best go back to school your sheep skin stinks.

Take your shadow quench, as well as your FOAK, back to never never land.

Watch as FOAK now pops in with a Hi! Dodge, and Hi! Quench. How are you doing fine I hope. I told you they were evil, see!!

Time for you guys to go read another book about Electronic universes, and when the main spring breaks.

You have small small minds amongst these present giants.

Dob!

[dobman53]

SD: Don't hook up with the Devil in your quest.

It makes you look FAT!

Your pen pal! DOB!

[quench]

Ladies and Gents I am about to have a conversation with MYSELF!

I guess nobody here can see the game I am playing or even enjoy it, I am mimicking them.(be it right or wrong I never claimed to be a perfect human being) I'm fighting fire with fire. They feed off of negativity, and they don't even see it. If I had come here and said the same things except be pro scam, they'd be high fiving me. If I had come here being anti scam in peace and love mode they would still do the same thing, do you think I am dumb enough to expect anything more?

They really are not that great at debating! Alot of the stuff they say simply gets ignored and they get all fluffed up thinking they scored a point but Smyrna is THE WORST debater on here.

1)establishes that anyone disagreeing is a crazy nutcase thus assuring that any nutty thing S says is not detected because the oppononet is too busy trying to establish they are not a nutcase

2) ignores anything not willing to answer

3)dismisses anything that can be considered in the past or old news or already discussed

4)points the blame/attention on other offenders and non relavant issues

They DON'T know thier Bible no wonder they have been allowed to fester on here, you guys give them more credit than they deserve. You have to remember that scam hand feeds them scripture anything they quote is spinned by scam and all it takes is a little patience (and a lot of time) to call them out.

It doesn't matter HOW I approach them they will ALWAYs approach me the same way as long as I criticize scam. I am respectful of thier RIGHT to believe whatever they want to believe, God gave us free will. I'll fight for thier right to speak or say or believe whatever they wish, as long as I am granted THE SAME RIGHT!

"Hi Quench -- What do you expect? If you come here and criticize these ShepChaps and denigrate their deeply-held beliefs, you will find that they will go for the jugular rhetorically. They know their Bible, and are very good debaters, especially Smyrna and Watchman. If you really wanted to come here in peace, you would be more civil and approach their world view with respect. I’ve been an outspoken critic of Arnold Murray and the Shepherds Chapel in the past; but after reading every thread in this forum over the past couple of years and going out of my way in an attempt at understanding them, I’ve come to the conclusion that they have the right to their beliefs and I don’t blame them for aggressively defending themselves. In my opinion they are harmless religious fanatics with some unorthodox interpretations of the Bible. "


Blue Lightnening bolt? Purple Lightning Bolt?
no comprende.


I am a follower of Christ I don't follow any tradition I am not religious ie practice rituals/holidays I don't go to any church building. I believe that we are to have a personal relationship with God who is Jesus Christ. I don't need a pastor or a preacher to look up to or feed me Bible scripture/lessons. I believe the KJV is word of God that we should read. As a kid I went to baptist churches, but I don't believe in church buildings, Jesus was a carpenter and he did not build a church bulding.

"If I may ask, Quench, what is your particular belief system? I’m a lapsed Catholic, but not an atheist. I’ve described myself as a “Gnostic” in the past; but even that word somehow does not define my world view. Of course, if you are indeed the "Blue Lightning Bolt" then all is moot."

[oneway]

"Ladies and Gents I am about to have a conversation with MYSELF!

I guess nobody here can see the game I am playing or even enjoy it, I am mimicking them.(be it right or wrong I never claimed to be a perfect human being) I'm fighting fire
with fire."


quench, I purposesly did pretty much the same thing for awhile. I decided to fight nonsense with nonsense.
But do you know what nonsense and nonsense adds up to?
More nonsense.

[dodge]

Hey, Dobman. I can’t believe that you still think “Father of a King” and I are the same person under different user names. And now you think that I am also this new poster, “Quench.” My posts have a distinctive character that are unlike anyone else, and easily recognized. Your posts, however, Dobman, make slugs and other invertebrates look like Nobel Prize winners. Are you always this ignorant, or are you making a special effort today? Your posts here on this forum are an inspiration to botched lobotomy patients everywhere. I suppose I should have some sympathy for your handicap since you are obviously paralyzed from the neck up. I suggest the next time that you feel an urge to embarrass yourself and bore others, that you summon all your might, and resist.

[stage_director]

Naw, Dodge isn't one to lie about his user handles. Plus that doesn't sound like him, and certainly not Franklin.

Me thinks there's a new sheriff in town. Gee, and he's taking names and kickin' butts. :-)

[dobman53]

Gee! Mister Dodge: I thought you told me my lobotomy was a complete success. Is that why my arms don't work.

I guess cause I'm not politically correct, that Nobel Prize is out of the question.

Maybe you and your new friend should have a meeting of the minds. That is if you can find a building large enough.

Continue to dance my friend, for I love to see you do that watussi. Go ahead and take a chance. Hay maybe you and quench might find romance.

Yours Truley: DOB!

[aviyah]

LLM,

*********************************************** ***
Ukraine, Russia, Armenia, etc...came to Christ first on a national level....to Judah first...

I put the offspring of Esau (Khazars, Ahkenazi...) and Cain in the holy land today with Benjamin. If you read Judges 19,20,21. You will see how Benj. joined with the sons of the devil. One day Judah (Russia) will attack Benjamin(israel)...
*********************************************** ***

First, let me just say be careful what you say around here about Khazars and Ashkenazi. You too will be labelled a racist for repeating what is common historical fact, that Ashkenazi Jews were prosylates to the Jewish faith when the Khazars decided to adopt Judaism during the 11th century.

But Russia in general has never really been a Christian nation. From what I have read, Ivan the terrible built the Christian churches in Russia more as a means of fitting in with Western Europe than for worship purposes. I have no doubt that there are descendants of Israel in Russia as the Bible declares there are in all nations. But neither Stalin, Gorbachev, or Putin strike me as respecters of the Word. This after all was the Northern House of Israel's servitude to Father, to take forth the Word to all parts of the world.

I see Russia (in general) as fitting the role of Esau to the letter. I hear what you are saying about Russian Jews returning to Israel. In fact these are the same "Jews" that are currently carrying out neo-nazi attacks on Israeli people. But Russia is not and never has been an ally to Western Europe and the U.S. Quite the contrary, they have always been a thorn in our side. In general their leaders are not God fearing people and they could care less about God's letter and law (very reminiscent of Esau). Also Russia has always had close ties with China, whom I believe has been afflicted by Cain since his exile to the Land of Nod.

What about the obvious connection between Meshech and Moscow? What about the obvious connection between Caesar-->Khazar-->Czar?

Am I understanding correctly that you too acknowledge that Cain's descendants were the Kenites and that they have situated themselves into the Jewish faith?

So what exactly is your disagreement with SC, assuming that you have one? I'm confused by your posts. It sounds as if you hold many of the same convictions as SC yet at the same time you seem to be disagreeing.

God Bless, AviYAH

[stage_director]

QUOTE
I thought you told me my lobotomy was a complete success. Is that why my arms don't work.
END QUOTE

lol Okay, I'll give you two points this time ...

[dobman53]

STAGE: Tap on Dr. Dodges shoulder. I hear he's a good dancer.

Don't snugle to close his sherifs pin might prick Ya!!

forever: DOB!

[dobman53]

Sorry Sheriff: I foregot, your pin has never pricked.

DOB!

[dobman53]

Quench: I never new You loved me so. Coping my post and putting your name to them, I'm flattered.

anyways I didn't mean to enterupt, Dodge is looking like he's jelous, and he's got his dancing shoes on! You better leave for I shant come between you!

Dob!

[llm]

http://www.bibletribes.org/judah/christianity/

Just as Jacob stole Esau's identity, so also Esau stole Jacobs identity. The Khazars trace their roots to Mt. Sier. In Jesus day also, John Hycrynus forced all the Edomites to get circumcised and become "jews". Jesus dealt with this subject in the Book of John, when they claimed to be Abrahams seed but never in bondage to any man.(Israel had been in bondage, but not the Edomites...) The so called "russian Khazars" like Lenin, Trotsky, and most of the Bolshevicks were edomite jews. They were the Edomites. God broke the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. The thaw set in when the Berlin wall came down. I thought this was an interesting article. http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney12052007.html

[stage_director]

I believe Herod was an Idumaen, or Edomite.

[dobman53]

IIm: Should you have a desire for learning, why is it you have such a hard time with certain facts.

Is it to difficult to release old notions. Or at least is was for me.

Perhaps then again you might be out to prove it as only your way.

You have a different take to be sure. I see shades of brilliance one moment, only to find an obstenance the next.

But allas I'm nothing of interest to you so continue on.

dob!

[aviyah]

LLM,

Do you think Putin's 85% approval rating amonst Russians might have anything to do with the fact that those who publicly oppose him keep winding up dead?

[dobman53]

aviyah: You just correctly answered the 64000 dollar question.

Our poor friends seem to have little fear. 1/2 think they shall be raptured, so what should they care. The others say Kenites don't exist so they fear nothing.

The whole bunch calling PM a lier. When they start praying for the mountains to cave in on them. I guess will probably given in and go dig them out. Dust the dirt off of them and say, I told you so.

Their tunes will certainly change then. I tell them I love them as I always do. Then we shall all know the real meaning of lovin and livin.

and I love you to aviyah. DOB!

[llm]

aviyah, you mean like the Clintons?

[llm]

But that puppet Stalin and his Bolshevik kenite
henchmen!! Now your talking! What 250 million common folk by the time they were done. I don't see Putin as having the same bloodthirsty motive. He seems to be more for the Russian people.

[dobman53]

IIm: just because Hillary's helper shot himself in the head, and left a bloody drag mark out into the middle of some park. Doesn't mean a thing.

President Clinton had his secretary of state Janet Reno do a full and complete investigation. She produced a suicide note in Hillary's own hand to show his death had nothing to do with the Clintons.

Besides Bill got 5000 monks to donate the individual maximum for his election fund. So what if china wound up with military secrets on how to launch Atomic missles at us. They would have figured it out in a couple of decades any how.

If you can get 5000 holy men to back you up it's good enough for me!

I get all goose pimplely thinking of them moving back into the white house.

NOT!!!!!

Dob!

[lutheratx]

"The corporate body of antichrist is already alive on the earth and doing business; just as the corporate body of Christ is.

Edomite/kenites=antichrist
Islam=false prophet
Apostate Christianity=the whore

Together they make up the Beast." llm

http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&amp;post=466168#POST466168

Aviyah seriously this guy is not of us. I think that he possibly believes, by this post above that Antichrist does not come defacto.

He has also said this today on this thread.

"One day Judah (Russia) will attack Benjamin(israel)..." LLM

he has just said Benjamin and Judah have been separated, hey LLM please show us in God's word where this is said.

Murray disagrees with him on who Russia attacks, I do to, it is for obvious reasons. This is another reason why he does not agree with us.

He does not want to acknowledge that Judah is separate from the ten tribes (by saying they are Christian, Christians are of one body), when Ezekiel 37 says they are separate. What is the thing that would separate the people like that, well lets see it is the word of God I am getting this from. So it is more than likely a division over the word of God.

He does not want to acknowledge Judah is in Israel, when the parable of the fig tree places them right there in the end times. Why because in both books of Kings we find out that Judah and Benjamin were preserved, Judah for David's sake, Jerusalem for God's. As a matter of fact they were both preserved for God's plan. How would we know so much about the tribe of Judah in the new testament, and we all know that Paul was a professed Benjamite, meaning he knew what tribe he came from.

The guy is from the original definition of an antisemitic, he doesn't acknowledge the culture of the Jew to be of the original 12 tribes. He denies the language of Israel's people. I don't care what his rebuttal will be, because just because the Septuagint is used in the New testament does not mean that it is not translated from the Hebrew. Meaning in a good deal of places Hebrew can have more than one meaning, and kenites have purposely miss translated the true intentions of the chapter. Take for example " and a virgin will conceive" can mean something else in Hebrew. So all that Christ was acknowledging is that the over seventy people that translated from the Hebrew were of the spirit for the most part.

So this is why he disagrees with the Chapel, because he wants to listen to any historian (man) that suits him, even when it goes against the word of God i.e. Benjamin and Judah being seperated.

[smyrna]

"Naw, Dodge isn't one to lie about his user handles. Plus that doesn't sound like him, and certainly not Franklin.

Me thinks there's a new sheriff in town. Gee, and he's taking names and kickin' butts. :-)"

Dreaming again, Stage Director? No one can come here and can "kick butts" by repeating old lies, or commenting on issues they know little or nothing about.

As for Dodge, funny he showed up the same day this guy did, after being absent for a few.

Furthermore, Dodge didn't exactly come right out and admit he was Zarquan at Cultbusters. And Dodge certainly is not beyond playing games like this.

Finally, unless this guy comes up with something new, he can join you in your litany of lies and foolishness.

[llm]

lutherat, If you read Ezra and Nehmiah you will see the a group frm the tribe of Judah did go bace to Jerusalem aprox 49 thousand. Around 7000 whent into Babylon captivity. any came out with a mixed pedigree. There were also the ones that never left the land in the first place. The tribe of Judah is indeed REPRESENTED in the holyland today. But it is a small percentage. If you look in the bible where David numbered the tribes you'll see that Judah was robably a couple of million strong including women and children. And that Judah was almost as big as ALL THE OTHER TRIBES COMBINED.

[aviyah]

"aviyah, you mean like the Clintons?" (LLM, 01/06/08)

Come again LLM???

I'm no fan of the Clinton's either but as far as I know they have never been under suspicion for knocking off their opposition.

God Bless, AviYAH

[aviyah]

"I don't see Putin as having the same bloodthirsty motive. He seems to be more for the Russian people." (LLM, 01/06/08)

You mean Russian people like Anna Politvokskaya (gunned down on Putin's birthday) or Alexander Litvinenko?

There is no freedom of speech in Russia. There is no free press. The press is completely controlled by the state. According to international reports at least 261 journalists have been murdered in Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. Politvokskaya and Litvinenko were mysteriously murdered after speaking out against Putin's abuses of Russian civilians.

www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,443543,00.html (http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0%2C1518%2C443543%2C00.html)

Vlad Putin seems to be running neck and neck with his namesake Vlad Dracul. Regardless of what Vlad calls it Russia is not engaging in Democracy.

[lutheratx]

"tribe of Judah did go bace to Jerusalem"

Oh really llm

That is false teaching and you are a liar

Ezra 10:9 "Then all the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered themselves together unto Jerusalem within three days. It was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month; and all the people sat in the street of the house of God, trembling because of this matter, and for the great rain."

So the numbers were small upon the return, and even with that being said the Jews lived all over the world after the Babylonian captivity, you seem like the type of guy that will say ever Jew in America is not of Judah. I want to rent my clothes when you say stuff that makes me think that. God did not replant the fig tree in Ezra other wise we would not be here. The fig tree generation is the last generation if you follow what Christ teaches. So of course it was small numbers that went back to set up the coming of Messiah. However now in this generation, if you believe God tells the truth, Israel is a nation again, and it is represented by Judah and Benjamin. Just like it says in the last chapter of Ezra the tribe of Judah and Benjamin went back to Israel. I am glad I found this today because most places Benjamin is called Jerusalem when it came to the separation, but here we clearly see by there names that Benjamin and Judah were never separated.

You listen to false teachers and they are misleading you. You just told a lie the book of Ezra completely put Judah and Benjamin together, and that is why no SC student will stand your doctrine.

Look man I am a sinner so I cant get to big headed. However this is a warning, this stuff you mentioned about Antichrist the other day, man you better realise that Antichrist is coming. The false prophet is not Islam, it maybe a type, but so is anything else that leads to the Antichrist. You need to quit relying on nothing but historians and get into God's word.

[llm]

aviyah, Russia is a different type of country than the US, but regardless, every world leader will kill those that they preceive to be enemies of the state. Foreign or domestic. Look at what Bush did to Saddam after he attacked the world center with WMD's. He probably killed some innocent people in bombing raids.
It is the way of the devil's system in this kingdom of world.
In America there may be more "private enterprise" than "free enterprise", if you know what I mean.

lutheratx, there is nothing wrong with what
I said. The bulk of Judah left earlier than the Babylonian captivity. About 7000 fighting men went in and 49 thousand cane out. Millions had gone elsewhere. To the area around the Ukraine.

The Edomites were in control in the holyland even during Jesus day, since John Hycrynus forced them in mass to become jews. The Khazars trace their roots to Mt Sier. They are Edomites as well. Even Arnold Murray would admit that the Khazar Ashkenazi which make up mose of the jews in israel today are not real Judah. Read Arthur Koestler's 13th tribe.

[llm]

Now luthertax, if you're talking about 1948
and,

"Learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:32-34)

as "Israel" becoming a nation, I would say that is kind of sketchey. Since when did God ever give Judah the permission to call itself "Israel"
That name is reserved for the 10 Northern Tribes. I tend to think that when the branch is tender and puts forth its leaves may refer more to the Berlin wall coming down between the East and West, since America, UK, etc...is Israel, and Russia is Judah.

[lutheratx]

"lutheratx, there is nothing wrong with what
I said." llm

First you said that Judah is in Russia and Benjamin was in Israel. I asked you to show me where in the bible it said that God split those two up, and you said Judah went back to Israel. That is just wrong, and a lie. You have not shown me in the bible where God has split those two up. Judah and Benjamin went back to Israel.

Second you said "any came out with a mixed pedigree"

You say this like the 43000 that came out where mixed, this is a lie, because these same people met in the streets and promised to get rid of there foreign wives and children. The 43000 did not include the mixed offspring and the foreign wives, they were the men. They were pure blood except for the nethinims. Other wise you are saying Christ came from mixed peoples, not a perfect mixture of the Priesthood and the King line, if you are biblically savvy you already know what God did any time that mixing tried to come into Israel. Do you seem to remember Judah's sons, how about the fallen angels, or was Pharaoh successful at killing of all the males?

Also

24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good. 24:6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

24:8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:

What does God use to drive them out, the end times, that is why they are seen together in the vision.

So did God say that he was going to get some of the Captivity (and notice it is Captivity not scattering), no he says he had his eye is on the captivity and he would return them. Now I don't think that every one of brother Judah went back, but the numbers you are saying are not even close.

Well this historian say this and that historian say that, well God's word says I will return those of the captivity to Israel. So you are wrong. So there is something wrong in what you say. Just like you saying that the Jew has adopted Hebrew as there language, the Jew has never forgotten who he is.

The word of God says the kenites are very small in number.

Dan 11:23 And after the league [made] with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

So scholar you think that you can tell by your history lesson that the Ashkenazi are all khazars. So even if Murray was to say it, I would disagree. You would both be wrong. God's word says he would return the captivity.

That was my closing but I have to say one more thing. You think the Jews cant tell the difference but you can, come on man. We have had a Jew that came here and said he was not of Judah, the Jew is big on tracing his ancestors.

[quench]

"Finally, unless this guy comes up with something new, he can join you in your litany of lies and foolishness."

Why do you come here then?

If I produced a smoking gun (no pun intended), a pic of Murray wearing kkk uniform lynching a black man but he has his face uncovered you would say

1) That picture is old it doesn't count zzzz old news next!

2) it is photoshopped

3)okay maybe its him but you weren't there it could have been Holloween or maybe he was there trying to stop the whole thing

Look at it this way. We may not have a smoking gun proving he is a racist but the ongoing suspician alone should be enough for you.

Example) The man down the street has been rumored to be a pedaphile; or you going to ask him to babysit your kids?

Jesus described our state as being that of children or born again (infants) are you going to let just anybody take care of your infant?

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[smyrna]

"Why do you come here then?"

I come here for the entertainment. It's fun watching clowns like you make a fools of themselves.

I used to come here to prove how dishonest extremist detractors of the Chapel are. I still do that, but it isn't as serious as it used to be for me, because anyone seriously interested in reading what the SC is all about can see that the etxremist detractors can't be trusted.

They completely destroyed any credibility they may have had, by their own failures and dishonesty.

That's what makes them extremists. Whether you are Dodge, which I highly suspect, or that nut case foak/trsinheaven/Ultimate1, you have been around long enough to know that the extremists have only one representative left, and that is Stage Director.

There used to be three or four, but two got banned, one just dropped off, and that leaves Stage Director, who is unstable, and I can say that because she is irrational, and even refuses to acknowledge when she has been wrong about anything, no matter how small it my be.

And now she has run out of material, as every issue the detractors have brought up has been throughly discussed. It's the participants and the readers who can judge for themselves who is right or wrong on any given issue.

However, what is obvious is that the extremist detractors are dishonest, and use a vast array of deceptions that rarely fool anybody.

They ignore evidence that proves they are wrong. They deliberately float rumors. They started a thread at another forum and protected it by banning any SC student that came there and confronted them.

That practice thankfully has ended, as the site owners now allow SC students to have their say.

They place their own unique spin on what is actually taught by the SC, and act as if it is the actual teachings.

There are many more tactics they use, but they have failed.

In these threads, you can easily see how they were systematically dismantled. Their own actions did them in, we just pointed out what they were.

The SC is still on TV, no media or any nationally known organization takes the allegations of the detractors seriously, and yet they still accuse.

I suppose it doesn't matter to them how silly and foolish that appears to others, but I see their value to us, because they are the best advertisement of people who call themselves Christians, but will stoop to the most dishonest, vile and abhorrent behavior in order to intentionally damage people they don't agree with.

[arron]

llm.... russia is judah????? america is isreal???? the berlin wall refers to to the fig tree with leaves coming down?????????? what nonsense.

[llm]

luthertax, Jesus exposed the Edomites in John 8 when he told them he knew they were Abraham's seed, and didn't object when they said they had never been in bondage to any man. And that also their father was of the Devil. They were the offspring of Esau and Cain. This is also born out in historical fact.

"___Things were not very peaceful in Judea; the Edomites were hostile to the Israelites. About 132 BC, John Hyrcanus was the head of Jerusalem and the Judahites, along with neighboring Idumea, in which some Edomites had settled. According to the Jewish historian, Josephus, John Hyrcanus conquered the Edomites and forced their conversion to Judaism. Listen to Josephus' account: "Hyrcanus took also Dora and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befell them, that they were hereafter none other than Jews." (Josephus, Antiquities; V. 13, bk. 9, ch. 1)

So, the Edomites were then called Jews." That was but the beginning of their reclamation of Esau's birthright, which succeeded so well during the next centuries.

In 47 BC, Julius Caesar made an Edomite, named Antipater, Procurator of all Judea. Four years later, Antipater's son, Herod, was in power. The people didn't like him, but with Rome's support, and a Roman army helping him, he laid siege to Jerusalem and captured it, becoming king of Judea in 37 BC. Herod hated the Israelites and they hated him. He executed 45 of the old aristocracy, and then destroyed the priestly line of Hyrcanus, and finally murdered Aristobulus, the last of the Aaronic high priests. Herod then rebuilt the temple in great splendor. So, we find that by the time of Jesus, Esau's descendants had claimed Jerusalem, the name "Jews," the temple, and the religion. Herod certainly knew the difference between his race and that of the true Jews who were run off, because when he heard of the birth of the prophesied King of the Jews, he tried to have the child, Jesus, killed. Edomite hostility toward true Israelites pushed many of them to the outskirts of Jerusalem and into small towns around the area, like Bethany, Bethlehem, and others. There were very few true Israelites involved with the temple by the time of Jesus. St. Paul, of the tribe of Benjamin, an exception, was one of the Pharisees at the Jerusalem temple at that time, prior to his experience on the way to Damascus when he converted to Christ.

When Jesus went to the temple in Jerusalem each year, he would boldly attempt to expose the Edomite Jews for their fraud, and that got him killed. In John 8, Jesus argues with Jewish Pharisees, and in verse 37 he admits the Edomites are descendants of Abraham, (which, of course, they were, from Esau, Abraam's grandson), but then Jesus follows with this in vs 39 "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham." In verse 42 Jesus begins to be very blunt: v.42"Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent me. v.43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word! v.44You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." (John 8, NKJV)"

http://divinepageant.com/Jew%20Question.htm

[llm]

aaron, here is the whole house of ISRAEL http://www.bibletribes.org/

[dobman53]

Quench: If you and IIm found old real to real audio recordings of me when I was 12. would you hold me out as rasist. Now imagine you found brand new recently produced old photo's showing me with a torch.

Would it now be the next latest greatest round of a full frontal asault.

I know, Iknow, nothing can be so scarry as the unaduterated truth. Just be willing to except it, and everything shall turn out just right.

But alas I know you shall scream, and still you do shout. It will all be in vane towards those whom you spot.

For these are your only weponds that are so firmly entrenched. You and your over worked brothers often repete I need one last Quench!

DOB!

[arron]

llm.... i read the chapter of john 8 and it says nothing about the edomites. it seaks od the pharasees but not of edomites whch came of esau which was edom

[dobman53]

arron: I see you have posted an afformation on biblical understandings. I can well understand your situation. These subjects are very deep in their understanding.

I would maybe suggest you might like to try tackleing something of lesser complexity. You know something more along the lines of what you like about Jesus would be nice. I even promise I would be one of the first to read it.

Maybe you could write us a short testimony, that would be nice as well. I do so love to here testimonies.

Your friend dob.

[lutheratx]

LLM I dont care if there were edomites in front of Jesus in John 8.

What I am saying is this, Judah is a good deal of the people in Israel present day. God's word places them there in Jeremiah 24. There is no way they are Christians because Ezekiel 37 says the houses of Israel and Judah do not come back together until the cleansing that takes place. If they were Christian there would be no division because we would be of the same body. The division is plain to the rest of the world, the division is the word of God. Brother Judah does not believe in Christ, and it has divided us.

You listen to people who truly have a problem with there very own brother. They are calling all of them fakes, saying there culture has nothing to do with the bible, so on and so on. You see it takes someone who really knows the bible to sniff out actual factual antisemitism. I don't necessarily think that you are guilty of this, because I believe you are unaware, maybe even the ones you listen to are innocent, but I promise there is some one up the ladder that is blinded by false history, which has removed the real tribe of Judah that is in fact antisemitic. The difference, and it is major, with SC (a accused antisemitic organisation) and an antisemitic organisation, is we acknowledge brother Judah in all of this. It is just the deception we are against, we still study a good deal of the same culture, we look forward to the day that the inhabitants that are of the good fig (which may include some of Edom) are back in the real Zionism, which is the government which Christ is the King, and we acknowledge there language as ours for sure.

You see I met a Jew that is not of Judah right here on this board, and if I take him of his word, I believe he is of the good fig.(even though he is not of Judah, but through adoption I am sure some of edom can be included) You know what he wants is a peaceful world and wants me in heaven, and I did nothing but give this guy a hard time. I learned a great deal from him, and the ADL for that matter, but all credit goes to God's pruning. Brother Judah and those that actually take in the doctrine that has removed salvation, which is of the kenites, really are trying to serve God. However so are all these Christians who love traditions of men. Now I am not saying that is alright, but it is done in innocents. God still loves Judah, if for no other reason, for David's sake. Judah is alright, this king of Babylon doesn't know it,
but he is actually a servant of God. We all are, however it is those that acknowledge it that will make it into the eternity. Most don't get it in this generation, this generation is full of souls that need correction. So is Judah.

Remember another thing Edom is of Isaac, and God started promising things to this people even back to Adam and Eve. So some of Edom will turn from there fathers and come into the government of peace, and I feel even that would be very natural.

[arron]

doberman53...i went to church as a child and as a teen. but just went to sunday school and the most of the time i would hide out in the mens room or somewhere in the church so i would not have to attend classes. then a preacher came by asking for people who wanted to come to a church he was starting he ssaid GOD told him there would be the place for him . my family went a few times then i went and the preacher preached the WORD OF GOD useing the bible for everything he said. i followed him in the bibles to see if he made mistakes. then after a few weeks i was cinvivted by THE HOLY GHOST and was saved that night. after several years of studying the bible i saw there was more so i went to the holiness church where i am stilll in today,

[smyrna]

"after several years of studying the bible i saw there was more so i went to the holiness church where i am still in today",....

Wow, thanks Arron. How can I join? After all, your Church must be infallible and contain the whole truth of God's Word, otherwise you wouldn't be there.

Holiness Church! Man, they call themselves Holy!
Outstanding! Finally, I am free!

Where is it? Who is the Pastor? I want to meet him. I've never met anyone who knows everything about the Bible and can teach it so well, anyone who belongs to it can never be wrong! http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

" ...went to church as a child and as a teen. but just went to sunday school and the most of the time i would hide out in the mens room or somewhere in the church so i would not have to attend classes."

I got news for you. You are STILL in the men's room.

[arron]

smyrna... i nowhere said our church was infalable, holiness is a name of a denomanation i nowhere said that our church contains the whole truth of GODS WORD although i believe what we teach to be GODS WORD i do not say one has to be a part of our church to be saved no one at our church calls themselves holy i never said that they are the only ones who have the truth and teach it like you imply that we do nor that they can never be wrong. and that is the second time you have implyed by your words that i am homo sexual. i am not i am a man ive been married and widowed have three chidren have 14 grand children and one great grad daughter and a little grandson who passed away two afters after being born. i am not a qeer or homo as you imply but perhaps you are since it is always on your mind. and our, church has a name and it is called church of THE LIVING GOD, OF COURSE YOU WILL FIND SOMETHING SMART TO SAY ABOUT THAT. and you could never join our church for you according to your actions are not saved and we only let saved people jon our church , they can come but we only let the saved ones join in fact they are the only ones who ask to join for they know what it takes to be saved. may GOD bless you and you stay out of the whore houses and the mens rooms too

[smyrna]

Arron, first of all, you don't have to claim your Church is infallible, all you have to do is act like it must be, since you have so many times claimed that the SC is wrong.

To you, there is no difference of opinion. There is YOU which to you means right, and SCers, which to you means wrong, not different.

As for that homosexual stuff, you are way off, because I was just using your own words in reply, that you must still be in the men's room, because you have shown yourself to be, rather than more educated than most, undereducated.

We proved that today, when you claimed that God only inhabits the "third heaven."

[dobman53]

Arron; You are a good man I've know this all along. Basically I'm happy for you in your contenance.

I myself at an earlier time grew tired of the constant every sunday sermond of repentance. Not that I find distaste about repentance, certainly not.

I noticed here a couple of posts back where you were in shock about Russian, and things of a similiar nature being in the bible. Well there's nothing about repentance in the verses were thoughs things are to be found.

that being the case many ministers never bring it up. they think there only mission is to save sheep. Never dawns on them that sheep do eat, and they must be fead.

Arron know one in their right mind thinks your homosexual, so cutt the #$%$#.

DOB!

[aviyah]

"aviyah, Russia is a different type of country than the US" (LLM, 01/07/08)

I'll say!!! 0ne holds free elections, the other claims to hold free elections but ensures that there is only one party running in those elections. That's the whole point. Russia is an entirely different kind of animal than other Western European (Christian) nations.

"every world leader will kill those that they preceive to be enemies of the state. Foreign or domestic. Look at what Bush did to Saddam after he attacked the world center with WMD's. He probably killed some innocent people in bombing raids." (LLM, 01/07/08)

Firstly, who "probably killed innocent people in bombing raids", Bush or Hussein? Secondly, I see a marked distinction between a nation declaring war against another nation and Putin putting hits out on his own people for publicizing his acts of genocide against Russian citizens.

And as far as I can recall, no American citizens have ever been killed because a U.S. president considered them enemies of the state.

"In America there may be more "private enterprise" than "free enterprise", if you know what I mean." (LLM, 01/07/08)

No. I'm sorry. I respectfully do not understand what this statement has to do with the price of tea in China.

I agree the Bible says Herod was an Edomite and I understand that the Khazars were proselyte Jews but I fail to see how this suggests the Parable of the Figtree relates to Russia or the Berlin Wall, especially since the Berlin Wall was in Germany, not Russia or Israel.

God Bless, AviYAH

[llm]

Have you ever heard of the cold war between the east and west. The berlin wall was a very concrete symbol between Judah (Russia the east) and the 10 lost Northern tribes of Israel (being the west). http://www.bibletribes.org/

[aviyah]

I give up LLM! I cannot make heads nor tails of your sound bites. I'm sorry.

God Bless you anyway, AviYAH

[arron]

doberman53 when on post the signs of the differsnt numerals or the differnt one that is aways taken as cursing or cussin as they say in my part of the country then that lets me know they need to repent please do not use such whne you are talking to me. i dont mind you disagreeing with me as i dont the others but whne one delibertly ( im not talking about you now ) says that i am not christian or like i should be always imolying that i am wrong then that is when i say they are wrong it was very uncalled for for someone to say that or to imply that i was homosexual because i said i stayed in the mens room or some where else so i would not have to go to class. i stayed there for there was no where else to stay. when i finally received JESUS as my SAVIOR all that changed and i now am a believer and truster in JESUS CHRIST AS my SAVIOR. may GOD bless each of you

[smyrna]

Hey Arron,

One more time:

Any references to you remaining in the men's room is meant to imply you haven't learned anything since the time you were dodging classes by hiding in the men's room.

And one of the reasons you appear to not have learned much is that for instance, you claim using "cuss words" is automatically un-christian.

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/profanity_a_biblical_assessment

Don't dodge the "class" above, Arron.

We probably have all been guilty of using language that is not appropriate for Christians, but part of being a Christians is admitting we are not perfect, but sinful people in need of salvation,obligated to repentance, and subject to God's mercy and grace.

And in the case of Dobman using symbols that remind you of a "cuss word" he wasn't trying to insult you, he was trying to correct you.

[arron]

you dont correct with cuss words. if a person cusses while counciling me i quit listen right then for they are not like they should be thanks for you advice but i dont listen to cuss words. may GOD bless you

[stage_director]

Swearing at the person you're talking to isn't appropriate for Christians. That's the long and short of it. Neither are "Gee, you're probably a homosexual" digs at a Christian who's obviously not and finds that idea offensive.

[smyrna]

Cussing at someone, is not the same as declaring what they have said as the figurative equivalent of a certain animal's feces, which I believe was Dobman's intent.

That both Stage Director and Arron didn't understand that is of no surprise to me.

Plus, Stage Director has once again exhibited her poor reading comprehension.

I explained what is cleary obvious to both myself and Dobman, and that is using Arron's own reference to hiding in the men's room to avoid learning, and any subsequent mention of it, was to imply he hasn't learned much since then.

Is that clear enough for you? Or will you screw it up again?

Oh, I'm sorry, is "screw" a cuss word?http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

One question, in order to place things in perspective:

When Jesus called the Pharisees a "generation of vipers," was that the equivalent of "cussing" at someone in the old Hebrew language?

How about calling someone a fool?

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Oh, I'm sorry, is "screw" a cuss word?
END QUOTE

Uhh, why, yes it is ... but never when used is the sentence, "Smyrna doesn't have his head screwed on straight."

QUOTE
When Jesus called the Pharisees a "generation of vipers," was that the equivalent of "cussing" at someone in the old Hebrew language?
END QUOTE

It's the equivalent of calling them snakes in the grass, uhh, or in their case ... snakes in the temple.

QUOTE
How about calling someone a fool?
END QUOTE

Mat 5:22
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

[lutheratx]

llm did you ignore my post? It is up there, I am sure you missed it. Lets pull you out of your history lessons and see what God's word says. If history goes against God's prophecy you need to think if there is a point, that is not shown to be documented, that would set what men know on there ear.

[smyrna]

Great! Stage Director has fallen right into my hands!(I'll wash them when I'm finished)

"It's the equivalent of calling them snakes in the grass, uhh, or in their case ... snakes in the temple."

Well, there you go. Jesus insulting the religious leaders of His day, using a very offensive figure of speech, the counterpart of "cussing" in semitic languages.

END QUOTE
How about calling someone a fool?
END QUOTE

Mat 5:22
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

How about Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

Stage Director will enjoy reading the Talmud, where it says Jesus is now burning in feces, in part because of what He had to say to the Pharisees. http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/wink.gif

[stage_director]

I'm afraid you don't get it, sport ... It's about not being reconciled with a brother, in our case a fellow Christian ... and calling him "you moron" in anger or insult.

You know ... kind of in the way certain Shepherd's Chapel students go around calling Christians of a different fold "biblically illiterate."

[dobman53]

Dear Friends: Are'nt we all here with unclean hands. I know my hands aren't as clean as One might wish.

SD: you should know that better than most! my sweet pet!

I see it's but again just another page, you turn in delight.

But oh you little wickens, I'll bet you get naughty at night!

DOB!

[stage_director]

QUOTE
Stage Director will enjoy reading the Talmud, where it says Jesus is now burning in feces, in part because of what He had to say to the Pharisees.
END QUOTE

Is this among your frequent reading materials, as you've mentioned it on several occasions?

I find comments like this regarding Christ offensive, and not at all appropriate as some apparent stab at sarcastic "humor" accompanied by a wink and a smile.

[dobman53]

SD: Its just like cross town trafic.

How come its so hard to get thruogh to you.

Darling can't you see the signels turn from green to red.

Your going 90 miles an hour with an accident up ahead.

Tire tracks all across the road I can see you had your fun.

but don't be surprised to see old dobman going the other direction. See he's just simply gotta run.

DOB!

[smyrna]

"I'm afraid you don't get it, sport ... It's about not being reconciled with a brother, in our case a fellow Christian ... and calling him "you moron" in anger or insult.

You know ... kind of in the way certain Shepherd's Chapel students go around calling Christians of a different fold "biblically illiterate."

Hey, if I see that I think SC students are offbase on something, I will question their Biblical literacy on that specific point, and then show them why I think they are wrong. And I do that with anyone.

But if someone comes at me and says Pastor Murray is a liar and false teacher,or I am or anyone they disagree with, simply because they disagree with them, then they will be called a fool, because I will have cause to call them such.

And if you don't accept that, and think that is harsh, my advice to you, number one, is to stop with the unsubstantiated accusations, and the other obvious deceptive tactics you have come to be known for.

Arron doesn't even think SCers are Christians, he doesn't think Catholics are Christians and he probably has a longer list than that, as do you.

[llm]

Ezekiel 37 is talking about when the Son of Man returns and raises the dead from their graves,v12 and then "true Israel" will become a nation again under Christ.

[smyrna]

SD wrote:

"Is this (Talmud) among your frequent reading materials, as you've mentioned it on several occasions?

I find comments like this regarding Christ offensive, and not at all appropriate as some apparent stab at sarcastic "humor" accompanied by a wink and a smile."

Why do you ask? You now find the Talmud offensive?

Seems you have stuck up for it by complaining that Pastor Murray hasn't too many good things to say about it.

But now, you have some problem with people who mention some of the vile things written in it against Christians, to show how prejudiced that book is, and to show how you are more in agreement with it than not.

Maybe you can clear this confusion up for us and tell us just where you stand regarding what has been written in the Talmud.

Obvious to me that you agree with it, by implication, since you imply that if Jesus called anyone a fool, that He was in violation of God's Word, then not only are you indicted for that, but you agree that he is in danger of hellfire, which is blasphemy for sure, which the Talmud is clearly guilty of, at least from a Christian perspective.

The wink was to try and communicate that you contradicted yourself again, and I proved you wrong, again.

[oneway]

Sd, if you want to believe that any of these scers in here are Christians, sorry, then you're on your own with that idea. I don't see Christ in none of these. No one is perfect, but these students continually mock the Word of God, and they mock true Christians, such as you and arron.
I honestly think the worst thing we can do for them is to agree that they are Christians.
In their minds, being a Christian is what you know
or what you think you know, to them it has nothing to do with the heart.
What good is it if one believes in Jesus but has no change on the inside? This is clearly mocking the good works of Christ. No Christian would continually do this without attempting to change on the inside.
The Jesus, Murray is teaching, is not the Jesus who is Lord and Saviour. The Jesus, Murray teaches, couldn't save anybody.

[dobman53]

IIm: Are you now saying God is the god of the dead! Coming back to earth, and then dead rotten corpses come clawing from below ground.

Has he presided in heaven since the beginning of time all alone. Other than a bunch of dead poeple buried all over the country side.

Instead of refuring to Ezekiel. You and arron ought to think about starting a study group.

You know a basic's 101 for beginners.

DOB!

[llm]

Israel will become one nation again when Jesus returns to be her King. Abraham and David are amoung the living, not the dead... Just because some Edomites put up a camp and sign in the desert doesn't make Israel a nation again. I flew to the holy land one time and sat next to one of the original settlement couples. She said, "We didn't wait for a sign from some kind of god, we didn't even believe in God she told me. We were athiests all of us...we figured we'd be waiting forever if we didn't do it ourselves..."

[dobman53]

Why Oneway:

I do believe your plow needs a cleaning.

Funny you should drop in with me in a such a good mood.

So now I'm not chistian? How wonderfull of you to hold me so tight.

Shall I now pull out my old ugly stick! and give you a fright?

I could bash, and bang, in a god awfull sight.

But what good would it do to one so decieved in blight.

DOB!

[arron]

doberman.. GOD has always been and always will be HE IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING the ones who die IN CHRIST ARE WITH HIM NOW AND WILL REMAIN TILL THE END WHEN HE RETURNS TO SET UP HIS KINGDOM. the dead who are the unsaved ones who are dead(have died) are in hell right now . there are multitudes of angels all around GOD and HE ISNT LONELY may GOD bless you

[llm]

Spiritual Israel is alive and well! DOB read Ez 37, and see the kind of imagry God uses. And don't mock the word see Ez 37 vs 12-13.

[arron]

doberman.. GOD has always been and always will be HE IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING the ones who die IN CHRIST ARE WITH HIM NOW AND WILL REMAIN TILL THE END WHEN HE RETURNS TO SET UP HIS KINGDOM. the dead who are the unsaved ones who are dead(have died) are in hell right now . there are multitudes of angels all around GOD and HE ISNT LONELY may GOD bless you

[dobman53]

IIm: I'm lost? not that that's anything new.

God said to Abraham I shall make of you a nation.

No strings attached!

sure enough many things have gone astray.

God even divorced Isreal.

But his promise to Abraham still stands.

God said to Mose's where ever the people walk shall be their ground.

The fig tree shall bare fruit. When Jesus props his feet upon the stool God gave him. their will only be one last hurdle for those who still don't believe.

When Jesus Cursed the fig tree he wasn't happy about the divorce.

DOB!

[llm]

Also when SC teaches John 8, they use it as a justification for the serpent seed doctrine when Jesus Himself says things like "I know you are Abraham's seed..." and "Your father Abraham..."
Even after they had stated they had never been in bondage to any man. Jesus didn't contradict this point because they all knew true Israel had been in bondage in Egypt. Jesus knew he was talking to the descendants of Esau.

[smyrna]

Onweay wrote:

..."but these students continually mock the Word of God, and they mock true Christians, such as you and arron."

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

What it takes to be a "true Christian", according to Oneway, (who I guess isn't a Christian,since he didn't include himself in the list):

Spend an entire year making accusations, and spending the same amount of time refusing to prove
about 99% of them.

Fellowship with known rumor mongers, who also relish in making up accusation intended solely to damage another's character, i.e. bearing false witness.

Become a drive-by Internet forum flamer, calling everything they disagree with a lie, not a difference of opinion, a false teaching, not and alternative view, and claiming they have never been proven wrong.

Ignore any evidence that does actually prove them wrong, and trying to bury it with irrelevant posts. This is deception with intent to cover up their own lies.

Refuse to acknowledge their own hypocrisy, so they can keep on exhibiting that wholesome, Christians quality.

Arron who is now referring to Dobman as a dog?

Oh yeah, what fine upstanding Christian role models Stage Director and Arron are!

Still dreaming about *Pastors* Godchild and Stage Director, Oneway?
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[smyrna]

Onweay wrote:

..."but these students continually mock the Word of God, and they mock true Christians, such as you and arron."

http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

What it takes to be a "true Christian", according to Oneway, (who I guess isn't a Christian,since he didn't include himself in the list):

Spend an entire year making accusations, and spending the same amount of time refusing to prove
about 99% of them.

Fellowship with known rumor mongers, who also relish in making up accusation intended solely to damage another's character, i.e. bearing false witness.

Become a drive-by Internet forum flamer, calling everything they disagree with a lie, not a difference of opinion, a false teaching, not and alternative view, and claiming they have never been proven wrong.

Ignore any evidence that does actually prove them wrong, and trying to bury it with irrelevant posts. This is deception with intent to cover up their own lies.

Refuse to acknowledge their own hypocrisy, so they can keep on exhibiting that wholesome, Christian quality.

Arron who is now referring to Dobman as a dog?

Oh yeah, what fine upstanding Christian role models Stage Director and Arron are!

Still dreaming about *Pastors* Godchild and Stage Director, Oneway?
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gifhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

[llm]

DOB well read Hebrews 11 and 12 to get the perspective. We will all be made perfect together.
Read especially vs 11:39-40, and 12:26-29, these chapters are incredible!

[dobman53]

Arron I was using a medifore. I can asure you I know full and well whats been going on for the past 10 million years.

Arron have you ever investigated the Gulf. Thats the division in heaven between the two sides. Saved on one side, hoped to be saved on the other.

I can well imagine this is going to come as a big shock to you, so maybe you better sit down before I tell you of such things.

Their is NO!! firery hell. There's no uncle Albert flip flopping on a frying pan.

this smoke that rises forever is ment only as a picture of eternal death.

This nashing of teeth is from thoughs who realise the predictament they're now in! beings they've found thenselves to be on the wrong side of the gulf.

About Lazerus wanting but one drop of water to quench his thurst. Lazerus was able to see across this gulf. He witnessed Jesus freely giving this water of life.

He knew that by a single drop he to could have life everlasting.

Arron you have children. Lets only pretend one should turn bad. would you burn them in a firery hell for ever. NO you wouldn't how would you.

There is to be an etternal death, let us thank our God for he is a merciful God.

DOB!

[llm]

I believe the new earth is going to be enormous. Just look at the size of one city, the New Jerusalem, practically the size of America and as tall. 1500 miles across wide and tall. Wow! and the dogs, murderers, whoremongers, liars...will never get to enter the gates but will wander outside as eternal object lessons of shame and burning full of anguish for their big failure to repent. Kind of like that burning guy on the Pink Floyd album cover "Wish you were here".

[oneway]

"Arron who is now referring to Dobman as a dog?"


If he is, then I haven't noticed that. That would be very un Christ like to do so, to refer to someone as a dog. If this is happening, why hasn't
anyone made mention of it? Especially dob?

[smyrna]

"doberman.. GOD has always been and always will be"

I know Arron can't type or spell, but what a convenient way to do so.

[dobman53]

IIm: I did read!

My take leaves me thinking more along the lines of Eternal life is by grace. No it's not earned even for those whom have done well, nor is it denighed to those whom have not done as well.

You can't earn your way to heaven not even the saints. God does give it freely to those whom do love him.

were all Gods children after all.

his giving water freely, from which we shall never thurst again.

I'll pray for sure in hope's for even one drop.

DOB!

[oneway]

"Why Oneway:

I do believe your plow needs a cleaning.

Funny you should drop in with me in a such a good mood.

So now I'm not chistian? How wonderfull of you to hold me so tight."



dobman53, you better wake up and wake up soon. It's not about what you know or what you think you know. it's about the heart.
Whenever I read those red letters in the Bible, tears flow from my eyes. What about you, dob? Does His words mean anything to you? And I mean really mean anything to you, deep within your soul?

[dodge]

Hi Dobman. You’ve been talking about “eternal life,” and I was wondering how you perceive that. Everyone dies, the body that we use then breaks down and returns to the Earth from which it came. Without a physical body, who are you then? What form do you take, and where will you “live” this “eternal life?”

[dobman53]

Oneway: Arron is using his own spin. How dobman and doberman sound so alike.

My first Time to drop in on the penticostle threads. Arron made this his loving connection. So should I return the blow. NAAAHH!

As I do care for him, and all is well. AMEN!

DOB!

[dobman53]

Dodge: On the atomic elements chart there are what is it 93 elements in the natural world.

Scientists through the use of atom smashers have created several more. though they have all had short half lifes.

The latest theory has it that perhaps if they could bump up new fussion they just might be able to create new matter in the 130 to 140 range in this atomic structure. This matter would hopefully have a long half life.

What should they find if all should come to be, we can't say for sure.

Just as we can't say for sure what God might have instore for us.

What ever that may be God says it has never before come to anyones mind.

So any answer I might give to that question would probably be more of my hopes than reality.

My thoughts revolve more around that one day we shall all know, all things.

DOB!

[oneway]

"Oneway: Arron is using his own spin. How dobman and doberman sound so alike."


dobman53, dobman and doberman doesn't sound anything alike. I promise you, I would never call you doberman.
I truly feel stressed in my spirit about you scers. I love each and everyone of you dearly. It hurts to watch you scers on this road to destruction. I am not your enemy, nor do I feel like sd is your enemy.

dobman53, you're a reasonable man. Suppose you were still a JW. And suppose sd and I were encountering you in the JW threads. You would be no more convinced by us there, than you are of us here, that we were telling you the truth about JWs. So does that mean that we would have been lying to you if you were still a JW?
Why would we lie to you here? What would we have to gain?

[dobman53]

Oneway: do you think a tear has never come to my eye. I to do share a love for God. This is no new event for me oneway.

I didn't just here recently come to know a couple of truths.

I often read between the lines as to say. Do you honestly think of me as how should I say, wet behind the ears.

Now I know how we all seem to take turns holding ourselves one above another. But don't then think that I am weak for you are strong. Not so my dear friend.

You have comfort in your holding on to certain things. That I have since found fault with.

It seems to me a lot of folks have beliefs that neither mankind nor angles could ever commit certain sins. If ever should things of that nature then be pointed out, the screams of Blasphemy echo across the room.

I have not all the answers this is all to obvious. Then again what I know, I do know as for to be surely so.

DOB!

[dobman53]

Oneway: again I know of what you do think. When I was a JW I was still a young lad. Though at the time I was facinated by the constant refural to the bible during our studies.

Yes the wool was pulled over my young eye's. But your thoughts that I could then do it all over again leave me to wonder just how stupid do you picture me.

No! No! forever No oneway I'm not quite so dim-whitted.

Should I insult your stature as you seem to do mine.

NO!

So the head bumping will continue for how long the lord only knows!

DOB!

[quench]

"Why do you come here then?"

I come here for the entertainment. It's fun watching clowns like you make a fools of themselves.

I used to come here to prove how dishonest extremist detractors of the Chapel are. I still do that, but it isn't as serious as it used to be for me, because anyone seriously interested in reading what the SC is all about can see that the etxremist detractors can't be trusted. "

Fair enough Smyrna.

I understand and respect where you are coming from, you do have a right maybe even a duty to defend your ideas.

If you can uderstand where I am coming from for a moment, please don't get offended this is just how I see it.

I see SC students as being lost, hell bound.
1)under the influence of a false teacher
2)lost from the truth and love that is Jesus
Christ
3)searching for the biblical truth but trapped by the subtle lies of a charasmatic tv personality.
4)closed-minded to the truth because they have been subtly brainwashed by a false teacher/prophet

So for me, I find absolutely no pleasure in coming here. It kills my heart to see so many people that truly do want to know Jesus Christ, being decieved by Arnold Murray. Even worst is the thought that people with darker pigments are feeding off of his subtle racism with out even realizing it.

He is doing very clever work for the racist community, he is training people of darker pigments to accept racism. It is so subtle that it easily passes by everyone.

It cost money to be on national TV. Airtime is not cheap, Where did Arnold get the money to get on the air? If we are to believe he was just a vetran who one day decided to get a national broadcast then where did he get all that money to buy airtime? I believe that he was/is funded secretly by racist groups to go on air and train (not white people) but train blacks, asians, hipanics (people of darker shades) to accept racist principles. I'd have more respect for him if he just came right out and said he is a racist such and such are his believes ect,. This is America and he has the right to say and believe whatever he wishes. But when you are cowardly and secretive and subtil with your real beliefs that is something I can not respect (dishonesty).

So Smyrna I can respect you for honestly answering my question as to why you come here.
I apologize for being so aweful to you when I 1st came here, which by the way really was last week, I really am a new poster. I don't know about the history of this board nor do I really care. All I know is that I am here with my own opinions and I would like to be respected and listened to the same as you so let us learn together what the truth is about Arnold Murray, because if any of us do this for the sake of Jesus Christ, we owe it to each other.

[dobman53]

Quench: save it for another day.

You are singing strange tunes. that have no notes.

you talk of such deep feeling, yet you know only of foolish thoughts.

So play on our hearts in such a loving sway.

But allow me to point to the door as only you know the way.

DOB!

[quench]

"[man = mankind -- i.e. all of the races]"
IS NOT IN THE BIBLE! There fore it is not straight from the Word of God!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%5Bman+%3D+mankind+--+i.e.+all+of+the+races%5D&amp;x=17&amp;y=16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%5Bman+%3D+mankind+--+i.e.+all+of+the+races%5D&amp;x=17&amp;y=16)

merriam webster says MAN means

1 a (1): an individual human; especially : an adult male human (2): a man belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) —usually used in combination

the human race : humankind c: a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)

HUMANKIND means according to merriam webster
"the human race "
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/humankind

MANKIND means
"1 : the human race : the totality of human beings
2 \-&amp;#716;k&amp;#299;nd\ : men especially as distinguished from women "

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/mankind

ONCE AGAIN THE WORD RACES is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND!

So Watchtower, and all SC students you can plainly see that Arnold Murray has taught you a word "races" and the idea of the word "races" (meaning seperate human races distiguished mainly by skin color) that is not in The Bible!

You had to add definitions to a Bible verse that are not even dictionary definitions in order for Arnold's teaching to be biblical, Jesus warned you about adding to the bible, this is what will happen to you:

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man [man = mankind -- i.e. all of the races] in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
.
.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This is the SC teaching -- straight from the Word of God!

So, no matter how many thousands of posts these detractor fools post, the simple truth is that God's Word is not racist and PM teaches God's Word."

[smyrna]

"I see SC students as being lost, hell bound."

1)under the influence of a false teacher
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

2)lost from the truth and love that is Jesus
Christhttp://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

3)searching for the biblical truth but trapped by the subtle lies of a charasmatic tv personality.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

4)closed-minded to the truth because they have been subtly brainwashed by a false teacher/prophet http://www.factnet.org/discus/clipart/rofl.gif

If they are passing out diplomas for detractor school, get in line. You just earned yours. Your list, and your post, shows you have all the talking points down pat.

Hey Quench, my question is: What are you quenching yourself with? Bud Lite?

Here is my version of your list:

Extremist Detractors are:

1) Either under the influence of drugs, alcohol,demons, or all three, and are destined for the loony bin.

2)Lost from following the lies and hatred of other extremist detractors and their tactics.

3) Searching for anything that will help them in their attempts to destroy the characters of anyone they disagree with, and trapped by the voices they hear in their heads.

4)Open minded, like an open sewer, and will allow any form of verbal waste to flow into and further pollute their already flood damaged minds.

I told you, you'll love onehumanrace.com
go there, you'll really dig it.

By the way, God doesn't use the word race either.

[quench]

We get our diplomas at Yale!

Your still waiting for Arnold Murray to graduate you and tell you where he got his Diploma.

While I read up on what a graduate of Yale thinks you can read up on what Arnold Murray thinks, a man dodgy about his past and his docterate.

And keep on laughing I hope you enjoy yourself.
After all Jesus did teach in the Bible that you should laugh at those that are perishing, what? He didn't teach this? Then why are you laughing if you think we are perishing?

[lutheratx]

llm you need to reread Jeremiah 24 where God shows the vision of the Good and the Bad fig together. And of course Ezekiel 37 is when Christ comes back, showing that Judah is separate from Israel all the way until the coming of Christ. Meaning that if they where Christian we would not be separated at all because we would all be of the same body. Judah is in Israel, the Good fig are the real seed of Judah, and Benjamin. How do I know this because Jeremiah was the prophet that was prophesying the captivity, and then he later says God will return the Figs, and he would never uproot the good figs. He would drive out the bad through the sword, pestilence, famine, etc. etc. Meaning the end times. Up until the completion of the sword, the famine, the pestilence etc. etc. the basket remains good and bad. There is only one thing that can remove the bad and that is the gather of the tares.

[smyrna]

If quench went to Yale, then I'm convinced more than ever that education at the college level needs a major makeover.

I am enjoying myself immensely, just as I always do, observing the value systems of cretins such as yourself.

"After all Jesus did teach in the Bible that you should laugh at those that are perishing, what?"

Hey hypocrite, here is one of the products of your hypcorisy:

"I see SC students as being lost, hell bound."

I guess when you were at Yale, you got thrown out of debate class. But only after you were finished sweeping the floor and throwing out the trash.