Catholic Kids

[jimmie_]

I don't want anyone to misinterpret this as a claim that the Catholic Church is a cult per any of the definitions usually used.
However, having been raised in the Catholic Church I feel I suffer from some of the same ill effects others have discussed here.
After all, I was traumatized by the teaching that the reason Jesus had to suffer ridicule, torture , and death was because of MY SINS.
A heavy load for a child to carry.
Some may even say abusive.
What say all of you?

[truth_is_a_choice]

Jimmie; thats a pretty interesting concept. I never thought of it. Sure makes me think about being careful of what & how i speak to my children in the future. -Thank you. So far, they're pretty young so i just say stuff like "Jesus loves you". I wasn't raised in a catholic church (I was raised in the LWF/Walk cult), my husband was though. I think they do a lot of things which appear cultish & some that i do not agree with, but like you I don't define them as a cult. I refused to my family -to raise my children catholic because I don't believe in praying to dead saints. I just pray to God through Jesus. I don't know, & wonder if all Catholic sects do this or not? There are some other issues like; I'm not comfortable with calling someone "Father" (thats just me, i don't know that its actually wrong or right), I like order but I'm not into positions as much as that religion seems to be, I've talked to some men in dresses and funny hats before & I have a hard time remaining mature and not giggling or waiting for a big wind. When my husband and I married a few years ago, half of his family protested our wedding because it was not a Catholic service. It wasn't Catholic because we didn't want to wait another 8 months as we would have had to. We already dated for 10 years & were in a hurry. They (his relatives) never even mentioned anything about Jesus to either one of us, they were just angry. We never knew it would be so offensive. I've been pretty leary of that religion ever since then. But I think, a long time ago the catholics used to use thier statues to tell Bible stories to people since most in that era were illiterate (long, long time ago -before the statues became what I call -really pretty or gaddy looking.) I'm not into tangible objects either, unless I'm using it to teach someone who does not speak, read or write -how to communicate. I'm sorry to hear you might have had some questionable experiences or hurt feelings, I just thank God for His Son Jesus -because Jesus is all about relationships more so than religions. When I did consider going to a catholic church later (for my husband) -I was told to attend a charismatic catholic church which speaks in tongues. I'm confused by thier different sections within thier religion. If you have anything you'd like to share I would be interested in hearing it.
TIAC

[jimmie_]

TIAC - Thanks for the response. I don't have any info on the various sects in the Catholic Church. I pretty much stopped participating in that brand of Christianity at the age of 14. It was a blow to my mother, but I just wasn't feeling it anymore.
(You can read more about my story on the "I spent the last few years with Royal Cronquist...") thread. Suffice to say that I've been through a lot in the last 40 years and am finally comfortable with th spiritual belief and practice I have developed and observe today.

What I'm interested in this thread is recovery from the particularly gruesome practice of teaching very small children that they are guilty of sin and that sin is what made it necessary for Jesus to suffer and die on the cross. That was a primary tenant of the catechism we were taught on a daily basis in Catholic elementary school. Of course we were also told that Jesus loved us, but somehow that just increased the guilt and shame I felt as a child for his suffering.

Somehow, as a 5 and 6 year old kid all of that got wrapped up and confused with the sorrow, grief, and personal responsibility I felt regarding my own father's death - he passed when I was 4 & 1/2 years old. Rather than get the psychlogical counseling I needed to help cope with my father's death (as would probably happen today), it was used as a club to smack me with when I misbehaved in class, "Your fasther is looking down at you in shame at your behavior, James." "You should think of your greiving mother." " Jesus loves you and died on the cross for your sins, James! Aren't you ashamed of your behavior?" etc ., etc., etc.

That sort of stuff is child-abuse in my opinion. But it was considered every-day stuff back then. I'm sure there are people today who would say, "Just get over it, already!" They have a point. That is just what I am trying to do.

[truth_is_a_choice]

Jimmie; That certainly sounds like phsychological abuse. I wouldn't say callous things like "get over it" -leave that for a fool to say and the target to ignore.
Actually, I know someone who used to pray that many of the abusers in that religion would be caught & dealt with like everyone else.
read your story on the royal C thread, thanks for moving it back over there. Glad to have you on there, and here. I'm looking forward to your posts and hoping you find some chatters & healing. Sorry -I haven't anything helpful to say here. Glad you have found a spiritual belief & practice you are comfortable with today....sounds like you're quite a survivor.
TIAC

[jimmie_]

Thanks for the encouragement TIAC.
Yes, I am a survivor ... but I'm also working to move on from that.
Looking forward; I don't wan to get caught up in blaming the past for who I am today.
Yeah, my parents, teachers, etc. may have had a part in the problems I have today. But there is nothing thay can do about it now. They're either dead or enfeebled.
In any case it's up to me to heal and be healed.
Sometimes easier said than done.
Any other Catholic Kids out there damaged by their religion?

[bramble]

Hello to All:

I wish to clarify a few of the points made on this board...

1) Catholics do not pray to 'dead saints'. Yes, their bodies are dead, yet with their souls they behold the face of God. They will pray with and for us. Catholics do not worship the dead. Catholics do not worship people either.

2) Some may see statutes as tacky or graven images. I prefer to see them more as family portraits. We all hang family photos in our homes, I bet.

3) Christ died for out sins; we should feel sad. It should also be a wake up call and a call to love Him more and a call to repent especially now that we are emparking on Lent this week. It is not a reason to develop a complex. (IMO)

I was not hurt by my Catholic faith except in the regard that it was not taught to me in its fullness. I had to learn my faith as an adult by watching a lot of EWTN and reading the Bible and other Catholic spiritual books. CYO was the best Catholic thing that happened to me in my youth.

My CCD book in Junior High had no imprimater. It was the 'Electric Bible' (AWFUL TO SAY THE LEAST). It talked more about Hollywood and pop culture. Our teachers finally discarded it and turned out class into a faith sharing/Bible study group--MUCH BETTER!

I also remember a liturgical abuse in Catholic school in gr. 5--at one mass they made us give ourselves communion, using leavened bread--'sacred blood' given to us in dixie cups--it may have been juice or kool-ade. I wonder if the teacher and priest were acting out a scene from Godspell. That mass wasn't done right.

In spite of everything, my friends I challenge you to learn, embrace and eventually to love the Catholic Church. Keep an open mind and a soft heart. My faith is why I am still going. God is still good. Please visit www.catholic.com and www.ewtn.com. They have good discussion boards there too.

[bramble]

To Truth is a Choice:

A few more things I might add...I hope this helps...

Yes there are Catholic Charismatic Masses. They are not held on a regular basis. Praising in Tongues is worked into the liturgy in an orderly fashion.

Catholics also have Charismatic prayer meetings on a weekly basis in some parishes. I consider myself a Charismatic. I do not like Charismatic prayer groups; the one I attended got a bit feisty. I do like Charismatic masses.

Contact your local diocese for more information.

Vestments: These are a holdover from the Ancient Roman days. Jesus wore similar robes. Remember pants didn't come into fashion until the Renaissance to the best of my knowledge.

[jimmie_]

Bramble - Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I'm glad to hear you had a different experience than I. But I have found from talking to others who grew up in the Catholic Church and education system, that my experience is not uncommon.

From your post:

"3) Christ died for out sins; we should feel sad. It should also be a wake up call and a call to love Him more and a call to repent especially now that we are emparking on Lent this week. It is not a reason to develop a complex. (IMO)"

Sounds a bit close to "just get over it." Maybe not so harsh; but is it reasonable that one shouldn't "develop a complex" over the way one was treated as a child by those in authority?

The abuse I suffered was dilivered on an almost daily basis from the time I was 5 years old, until I was 12 years old. It destroyed my faith and trust for those with a religious vocation, The Church, and organized religion in general. I was terrified by authority figures and resented adults in general. Typical of a lot of traumatized kids, I had difficulty concentrating and got very poor grades in school. It was only through my innate intelligence that I learned how to read and developed a deep love for literature, music and theater. These are the things that kept me in school long enough to graduate with a High School diploma. I did not go to college until I was in my forties, I recently graduated with honors and hope to attend graduate school - if I can ever afford it. Right now my own children's education is more important and that's where the money is going.

Sorry Bramble, but I will not be taking you up on your challenge to "... learn, embrace and eventually to love the Catholic Church." I've moving on from what I see as, at best, an old fashioned world-view - to, at worst, a dangerous set of beliefs that have allowed those in power to subjugate and abuse the powerless, including INNOCENT children.
I had hoped this forum might help some other folks find a voice, but there don't seem to be too many responses. Oh well, I'm sure there are other places on the internet to find the like minded.
I'll just keep looking.

[bramble]

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry if you thought I was just saying 'get over it'. On Good Friday I feel sad, loved and grateful for the sacrifice Jesus made for me--sorry that wasn't better conveyed.
If you have suffered some spiritual abuse at the hands of Catholic Schools, I'm sorry. I am not sure what to say as I know next to nothing about your diocese, your school etc.

I can tell you I attended Catholic School for 4 years in the 1970's. For me I had to deal with a religious sister and male teacher with mood disorders. Other religious were nice. I had to deal with the Mass being destroyed with sometimes really bad music and mostly bad liturgical abuses--communion given out in paper cups etc. Another Catholic school I attended practiced the faith better, but the students school were rather bullies. I was glad to transfer out and got to CCD on weekends.

Were you taught by "Sisters" because many of them had no formal teacher training, no child development classes etc. When I was in school some didn't even understand Catholicism!--one was more Buddist.
We came along when the Church was going through adjustments--BIG ONES!

[bramble]

I hope that you find healing. I too have been hurt, not by teachers and religious, but by school mates. God heals all wounds. Pray that God will help you to forgive them. It won't be easy, but you will in time feel much better, stronger and healthier. I have forgiven those people. It took a long time. No, it wasn't easy.

I wish you well on your faith journey. If and when you feel up to it please visit www.ewtn.com. and www.catholic.com


BTW: I was wondering are you bothered by other authority figures...parents or supervisors etc...?