CFCMI's New Building

[bramble]

(Go to www.cfcmi.org) Day four of Board Meeting photos... From the outside it looks like it once belonged to Cox Cable Company. What's with the bars on the windows? What sort of statement are they trying to make? From the inside it looks like an empty store.

They have their own park. The playground equiptment looks really fun and gives an entirely new meaning to 'Kid's Kingdom'. Where are the fruits of their church--certainly not playing on the playground!

They used to worship in a few nice churches, then moved to a school, then to a hotel and now this! How is this "Moving Together and Moving Up"? Tidewater is barely above sea level.

[turningjapanese]

I saw the pictures. I thought it was very strange...they post more pics of themselves reading the Bible in their beach-y townhouse than of the new "church." Absolutely no shots of the front of the building. Wonder why? I personally thought it was an old roller rink... (holy rollers!) Regardless, the place looked like a dump. That seems to be their money-making M.O. ---using the promise of "building a sanctuary" to generate funds and donations. Just last year they pulled the same garbage in Waukegan, holding prayer vigils on "their new land." Nothing ever came of it. They have been doing this for years. Like someone said, it's all smoke and mirrors, an illusion of importance used to string the congregation along in order to facilitate ca$h flow. Corrupt indeed.
I also notice there is very little information given on the so-called "wonderful" things they do for the kids in Haiti and SriLanka. There are some pictures of a brick wall with a few old desks that is supposed to be a school. But over the summer, they proudly displayed their Harleys on the church website, calling their glorified roadtrip a Senior Pastors Tour. To me, posting more pictures of motorcycles than of a new "church" is an obvious statement of where their priorities lie. I hope nobody moves to Virginia sight unseen...it will be business as usual in a dank scary warehouse. Waukegan is better than that, and that's not sayin' much either.
As for that college...who is gonna study twisted scripture in a "church" founded by a rapist and molester? More rapists and molesters? I think the raping has stopped, but the pillaging continues...wake up, people!

[bramble]

"As for that college...who is gonna study twisted scripture in a "church" founded by a rapist and molester? More rapists and molesters? I think the raping has stopped, but the pillaging continues...wake up, people![/QUOTE]"

I thought that the bars on the windows were so appropriate because there are at least two active ministers in the church who were implicated in molestation of those two Mexican boys. See the home page on www.abusivechurches.org.

Notice there are no children to play on their playground. This is both good and bad depending on your perspective.

[turningjapanese]

Got an idea...they should focus on a ministry for inmates. At least they would have a "captive" audience! I am sure the leaders would feel quite comfortable working with other felons and con-men. And I believe it would provide the environment in which they are looking for. They should seriously take it into consideration when planning for the future of CFCMI.

[bramble]

Got an idea...they should focus on a ministry for inmates. At least they would have a "captive" audience! I am sure the leaders would feel quite comfortable working with other felons and con-men. And I believe it would provide the environment in which they are looking for. They should seriously take it into consideration when planning for the future of CFCMI.

They probably already have a jail/prision ministry. Many churches do. I don't suppose that they are choosy. Just the same I hope you were making a joke.


God Bless,
Bramble

[turningjapanese]

About the jail ministry-----
I was only half joking, dear.



Why are there still no decent pictures posted of their new church on CFC's website? Is it because they don't want people to figure out it's a dump...and it will take a huge about of ca$h to rehab it? (and guess who's gonna foot that bill...)

You can worship Jesus anywhere--Don't get me wrong--but why on earth would they post a picure of a TABLE in their rented townhome? Does it have more value than a new church building? Why do they feel the need to post countless pictures of themselves in some staged "bored" meetings? Too many images of themselves trying to look "important" or "God-led"...If I stand in front of a whiteboard, does that make me a leader? If I raise my arms, am I spiritual? That is what they want their dwindling flock to see...the image they paint of themselves. There is nothing of substance within CFCMI.

As for their new church...they have proven themselves to be irresponsible with building funds. Their new "vision" will probably go the way as their brand new "sancturary" in Waukegan...(which by the way, they were still promoting on their site until fairly recently--even though they NEVER owned that property)... all dust in the wind...

This "God-led Vision" is just an invitation to fund their Retirement Plans.

[bramble]

About the jail ministry-----
I was only half joking, dear.

Why are there still no decent pictures posted of their new church on CFC's website? Is it because they don't want people to figure out it's a dump...and it will take a huge about of ca$h to rehab it? (and guess who's gonna foot that bill...)

You can worship Jesus anywhere--Don't get me wrong--but why on earth would they post a picure of a TABLE in their rented townhome? Does it have more value than a new church building? Why do they feel the need to post countless pictures of themselves in some staged "bored" meetings? Too many images of themselves trying to look "important" or "God-led"...If I stand in front of a whiteboard, does that make me a leader? If I raise my arms, am I spiritual? That is what they want their dwindling flock to see...the image they paint of themselves. There is nothing of substance within CFCMI.

As for their new church...they have proven themselves to be irresponsible with building funds. Their new "vision" will probably go the way as their brand new "sancturary" in Waukegan...(which by the way, they were still promoting on their site until fairly recently--even though they NEVER owned that property)... all dust in the wind...

This "God-led Vision" is just an invitation to fund their Retirement Plans.

I guess I would say their choice of building may show a lack of reverence or a lack of options. I'm thinking more 'menz' have jumped ship. We just have to wait and see who. Soon the "pastors" may too! I hope these "pastors" repent before it is too late. We both see the humor of the bars.

We need to keep praying for God to lead everyone out of this mess. I can see Him working already!

[turningjapanese]

What do you mean by lack of options?


Are you implying they have no $$$ to purchase an appropriate building for worship?

Are their standards too high, with funds too low?

Gee....how did THAT happen...they have been collecting building funds for decades...

[bramble]

What do you mean by lack of options?


Are you implying they have no $$$ to purchase an appropriate building for worship?

Are their standards too high, with funds too low?

Gee....how did THAT happen...they have been collecting building funds for decades...

There was always this stigma that follows CFC to this very day. I remember when CFC first came to Norfolk, those sailors who knew them from Waukegan didn't have anything positive to say about them to the TV news reporter. The sailors tried to warn the public about them.

There has always been this "not in my backyard" quality that seems to follow CFC from what I have heard and read over the years. They may not have reverence or options. Money I wonder where it all went! Does CFC have any standards?

[bramble]

What I meant to say on standards and reverence and lack thereof...they seem too worldly to care where they worship. They gave up at least two perfectly good churches from what I have read on ABC. I think that is why they do not know the difference between a banquet hall and a church. Their last place was/is a banquet hall in a hotel. No one wants them in their neighborhood anymore--probably the sex offender stigma.

They may be low on funds due to mismanagement/misappropriation and court and lawyer costs.

Notice that EJT is really psyched about the place and how glum everyone else looks in the pictures from the board meeting.


I do not think many are buying into CFC anymore... some still do.

[turningjapanese]

I do not think many are buying into CFC anymore...


Hahahaha!

I bet EJT wishes more people WOULD "buy" into CFC!!!!


Speaking of BUY, do they still promote that Amway crap?

[bramble]

CFC did in fact buy an old Boys' Club which explains the ball field, picnic shelter, playground equiptment. See ABC for more info. In the long run I doubt that it will fly. I think the people will flee when they see that they have been had again.

[turningjapanese]

How appropriate....


All they need now is a van parked outside with FREE CANDY written on it.

[bramble]

Judging from the architecture and high steel ceilings I bet it will be a bear to heat and cool.

[turningjapanese]

Maybe they can just play some baseball outside on their new "Field of Dreams."

[John Cady]

Yes indeed, CFCMI did once own some really nice structures. I attended the one in Norfolk until 2003; their building on Little John Drive was a very nice church building which, I say to my own shame, we butchered the electrical systems to where they were so far out of code it was scary. We had a few licensed electricians among us, and those guys did not like how Ed Thomas wanted some of the stuff wired; yet they were told to do it anyway. Same held true with the staff housing.

As for the "field of dreams", it is only a matter of time before Thomas closes the whole thing down and launches his golden parachute. Many of the elders who went with him were not impressed.

[bramble]

Welcome back John!
Hello One And All!

I was just on the wayback machine site. I was amazed to learn that CFC Norfolk actually worshipped in an old Piggly Wiggly or Giant grocery store!? From the pictures it looked rather dumpy.

From the looks on the guys at the last International Board Meeting I see now that these guys were probably thinking, 'Oh no! Here we go again'. I guess it was an epiphany moment. I don't suppose that middle aged guys would be so impressed by this as they were at say 20 something--getting old hat.

Too bad about the wiring. Now we know the real reason for the move.

BTW: What Navy rate has the designation of RD?

[bramble]

In the early '80's (First) Christian Fellowship Church worshipped in various places in Ocean View--a neighborhood with some rough spots as I recall. I wonder what the buildings were like?
At some point they moved to the Military Circle area (Little John) and stayed there until 2003 at which point the church disbanned and regrouped.

Then they moved to the Holiday Inn in Chesapeake--way south of Norfolk with TWO other cities in between. 2003-2004

Then they moved into a supermarket in a shopping mall also in Chesapeake (2004-2005) (Newtown Rd. was another store as I recall)

Now they are worshiping in another hotel close to Military Circle Mall. (2005 to present)

They are now trying to fix up a 'picnic shelter' at what used to be the old Norfolk Boys' Club.

Who is still buying this!!!

[turningjapanese]

Possibly, those with nothing else are buying it.

[John Cady]

In the early '80's (First) Christian Fellowship Church worshipped in various places in Ocean View--a neighborhood with some rough spots as I recall. I wonder what the buildings were like?
The Norfolk branch worshipped in two places on Ocean View: a converted convenience store on 16th Bay (1984-90), and then moved to a larger building on 21st Bay (1990-96). During this time CFCMI Norfolk experienced their greatest growth. I was there during those times, and the building on 21st Bay was in my opinion the nicest one of all. The sanctuary was huge, and we would sometimes have crowds of over 400. That is a far cry from where they are now.

[bramble]

I wonder where FCFC worshipped from 1978 to 1894?--possibly in people's house? IMO: from a bit I say on the evening news at that time it was still an abandoned convience store. I remember protesters outside. Some were even sailors (out of uniform) unusual for sailors to be so vocal.

[John Cady]

I wonder where FCFC worshipped from 1978 to 1984?--possibly in people's house? IMO: from a bit I say on the evening news at that time it was still an abandoned convience store. I remember protesters outside. Some were even sailors (out of uniform) unusual for sailors to be so vocal.
Yes, they did start out meeting in Ed's house, and then to a building on Hillside Avenue. When I joined in 1986, they were on Ocean View.

The protesters you saw were from True Vine Baptist Church.

[bramble]

Yes, they did start out meeting in Ed's house, and then to a building on Hillside Avenue. When I joined in 1986, they were on Ocean View.

The protesters you saw were from True Vine Baptist Church.

John:

What do you know about True Vine Baptist Church? What did they know about FCFC (CFC)?

Regards,

[John Cady]

What do you know about True Vine Baptist Church? What did they know about FCFC (CFCMI)?
True Vine Baptist Church is a small independent Baptist church in Norfolk, whose members do a lot of street preaching and protesting.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, True Vine had run-ins with several CFCMI members, including me, and they strongly despised the message of baptism by full immersion in Jesus' name. They sent some of their members to the CFCMI parking lot where they would call us "waterdogs" for our stand on water baptism.

Since then, I know of no further run-ins between the two churches. Now, on a different subject, the Waukegan branch of CFCMI was always having confrontations with First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana; members of CFCMI and FBC would be on the naval base in Great Lakes inviting sailors. Often there would be heated doctrinal debate between the two groups (I was involved in several of these as well), and flaming of the top leaders (they would flame L.R. Davis and we would flame Jack Hyles). Since Peter F. Paine took over CFCMI and Jack Schaap assumed the helm of FBC Hammond, these confrontations happen far less often.

[bramble]

[QUOTE=John Cady;341957]True Vine Baptist Church is a small independent Baptist church in Norfolk, whose members do a lot of street preaching and protesting.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, True Vine had run-ins with several CFCMI members, including me, and they strongly despised the message of baptism by full immersion in Jesus' name. They sent some of their members to the CFCMI parking lot where they would call us "waterdogs" for our stand on water baptism. QUOTE]

From what I know of Baptists in general, and I am rather partial to them, they baptise by FULL IMERSION too, as do many other churches. Baptists baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That may have been the rub. 'Oneness' is seen as unorthodox by most Christians. The Baptist's sacrament of baptism would be seen as valid in 99.9 percent of all Christian Churches, but not CFCMI.

I was wondering if True Vine had a vendetta against LR Davis...or Thomas... or Lantis, etc...

It seems to me True Vine recognised CFCMI for the cult that it was and still is.

Maybe they despised all the CFC deceptive recruitment disguised as "Bible Study" (LOL) IMO it's not much different than fishing with a lure--bait and switch.

[John Cady]

There are other Oneness churches which True Vine respected and NEVER protested despite their differences in doctrine. So perhaps the whole matter was about their cult status.

Once the new building opens up, True Vine may find time in their schedule to return again.

[turningjapanese]

Just thought of something, back to the original topic of CFCMI's NEW BUILDING.....

I am not a tax accountant, but is it possible that they are renovating/discarding all these bulidings for some kind of tax purposes? To take advantage of some loophole somewhere? Yes, they have an exempt status...but if they continually post up losses, does this work to their financial advantage somehow? I'm sure there are hundreds of ways to "beat the system", and being an honest person, I really wouldn't know about how to do it...but we're talking about CFCMI con men here and I wouldn't put it past them to pull some some garbage like that.

They have been getting away with various SCAMS for years; I'm sure they feel they could SCAM good ole Uncle Sam. And, if they ever got busted, they could blame someone else (like some doofus church treasurer) or claim they are being "persecuted." Sweeping things under the rug always seemed to work well too. Makes ya wonder what really goes on at CFC...they probably are thankin' GOD for that wonderful 501 (c)(3).

tj

[bramble]

There are other Oneness churches which True Vine respected and NEVER protested despite their differences in doctrine. So perhaps the whole matter was about their cult status.

Once the new building opens up, True Vine may find time in their schedule to return again.

One can only hope that True Vine will demonstrate the Grand Opening. Maybe some of those Tidewater area X-CFCMI people will turn out as well. As for myself, I would prefer a more proactive approach: newspaper blogs, letters to the editor, letters to nearby pastors, CO's, maybe a few billboards.

[bramble]

Just thought of something, back to the original topic of CFCMI's NEW BUILDING.....

I am not a tax accountant, but is it possible that they are renovating/discarding all these bulidings for some kind of tax purposes? To take advantage of some loophole somewhere? Yes, they have an exempt status...but if they continually post up losses, does this work to their financial advantage somehow? I'm sure there are hundreds of ways to "beat the system", and being an honest person, I really wouldn't know about how to do it...but we're talking about CFCMI con men here and I wouldn't put it past them to pull some some garbage like that.

They have been getting away with various SCAMS for years; I'm sure they feel they could SCAM good ole Uncle Sam. And, if they ever got busted, they could blame someone else (like some doofus church treasurer) or claim they are being "persecuted." Sweeping things under the rug always seemed to work well too. Makes ya wonder what really goes on at CFC...they probably are thankin' GOD for that wonderful 501 (c)(3).

tj

tj:

I like your post I would have never thought of any of those things--very clever! Maybe keeping their church members busy keeps them united against a common foe...who I don't know...maybe the entire world.

It may also give them a sense of purpose so that they aren't noticing just how bad their lot in life has become...

...renovate...move...renovate...move...renovate... move...tell two friends about CFC...they tell two friends...then they tell two friends...and so on...and so on...and so on...renovate...move...tell two friends...make them do scut work too...renovate...move...grow old...renovate...move...tell two more friends...suck them in...swap that deck...tote that bale...eventually you'll be so old that you can't work...no home...no friends--they were a bad influence anyway...

Bible Study? Sacraments?--no way! Money--now you're talking! Free labor we'll take that too!

Hey guys! get out while you still have breath in you. If someone is reaching out their hand take it. God gives us friends from some surprising places. I learned this in high school.

[turningjapanese]

Yeah, us against the world...the old black and white thing...Either you love Jesus or you don't, and if you do, you'll open your wallet and support the church!!! If you don't, you'll rot in Hell....

Gimme a break...

[bramble]

On www.cfcmi.org (http://www.cfcmi.org) there is another link on the front page showing their new building plans. Some of the pictures are old. There is a really cool one showing their Olympic pool--sweet. They say in time they plan to build a church attached to the main building.

I get the feeling that the single men may be moved out to this old Boys's Club building. Kind of sounds like Waukegan all over again doesn't it. Single guys basically living in a church with no freedom or privacy.:(


Guys get out while you still can!!!

[John Cady]

Here are my responses to the questions on their questionnaire:

What would you like to know about the campaign?
Is this an actual building program or another false one like all the building plans in Waukegan since 1988?

What do you hope to see with this campaign?
Actual fruit, not a bill of goods. This better not be another "Vision Team" fiasco like the one in 1999, which produced nothing.

What concerns or problems do you see with the building plans so far?
I think you are selling another pipe dream to everyone who is left in CFCMI, especially the single men. I heard so many announcements about buildings at Waukegan, but nothing materialized.

What would you most like Pastor Paine and the leadership to know or be aware of?
Even though I am no longer in Norfolk, I still keep tabs on what is happening. You have spent a lot of money on vacations and called them "Senior Pastors Tours" and "Quixtar Trips", and live very well as opposed to many of the parishioners.

In what ways do you hope to help with this campaign?
Pray that God will humble everyone to a state of repentance and bring CFCMI back to its original roots before Pastor Davis' sin and compromise began ruining everything.

Additional Comments:
I have heard so many statements from Pastor Paine and Pastor Thomas about buildings and yet there is a pattern of waste in the ministry. Moving into a new facility and then leaving after six months or so? Unreal if you ask me. The photos from the board meeting tell me not very many guys are impressed.

John Cady

[bramble]

Here are my responses to the questions on their questionnaire:

What would you like to know about the campaign?
Is this an actual building program or another false one like all the building plans in Waukegan since 1988?

What do you hope to see with this campaign?
Actual fruit, not a bill of goods. This better not be another "Vision Team" fiasco like the one in 1999, which produced nothing.

What concerns or problems do you see with the building plans so far?
I think you are selling another pipe dream to everyone who is left in CFCMI, especially the single men. I heard so many announcements about buildings at Waukegan, but nothing materialized.

What would you most like Pastor Paine and the leadership to know or be aware of?
Even though I am no longer in Norfolk, I still keep tabs on what is happening. You have spent a lot of money on vacations and called them "Senior Pastors Tours" and "Quixtar Trips", and live very well as opposed to many of the parishioners.

In what ways do you hope to help with this campaign?
Pray that God will humble everyone to a state of repentance and bring CFCMI back to its original roots before Pastor Davis' sin and compromise began ruining everything.

Additional Comments:
I have heard so many statements from Pastor Paine and Pastor Thomas about buildings and yet there is a pattern of waste in the ministry. Moving into a new facility and then leaving after six months or so? Unreal if you ask me. The photos from the board meeting tell me not very many guys are impressed.

John Cady

I really like your answers, but IMO, CFCMI's original roots were: sodomy, cover up, slavery of single men--first in Waukegan, then in Norfolk, and theft of time and money.

IMO, Davis was never called by God and was never sorry for his sins. I know that I am not alone in this belief.

[turningjapanese]

Yeah, that pool is pretty sweet. I worked in a park district for a while, and those pools are pretty costly to heat and maintain, but what do I know? Maybe they can use it for their new Baptism tank.

I see they are still begging for CA$H. And I'm sure when they fall short, it will be the congregation's fault for not supporting the church, or not being "spiritual' enough, or whatever they call it.


Here's the Question of the Day:

"Why exactly" are they moving the HQ to VA? WHY do they need to renovate an aging old dump---while begging for money to do it---if Waukegan is perfectly usable, (although empty of people) and already paid for?

[bramble]

They will work on the new/old boys/girls club for a while, have Easter Sunday services there. If they are lucky there will be a heat wave and people won't need to wear their jackets to 'church'--no heat in the building, yet.

They may need porta potties outside until their plumbing gets fixed. IMO They will stop working after painting the place. They won't fix: the pool, the electrical, the plumbing, the heating. The will keep begging for money to renovate, but you can't get blood from a turnip. No substantial money donated will be actually put into the building.

Considering how long they stayed in Ocean View, Chesapeake, Little John Rd. location, Military Circle shopping area, various hotels, I would give them about 6 months before the Senior Pastors split.

[turningjapanese]

Time will tell if you're right about your prediction.

Ed griped about the bills for the last place; who knows if that's true or not because you can never really believe a liar, but I digress...

Maybe they can fix up the picnic shelter and have an egghunt outside. That would be fun.

Love, tj

[John Cady]

Peter F. Paine wrote: We are taking a property of over 5 acres, which includes a large facility (a former Boys and Girls Club) with several assembly areas, classrooms, offices, a gymnasium, and an Olympic size pool! The other separate building is an office complex, which will most likely house our International Offices.

Not much room for office space from what I saw in the photos. Of course, some buildings are more spacious than they appear...however, with the atrophied state of CFCMI, I doubt that they would really need that much space.

Peter F. Paine wrote: Phase 1 is to get into the building, make as much of it functional as practical, do major cleanup and restoration. One nice touch will be the installation of a very durable, high-tech flooring in all hallways and classrooms. During this time, the Ministers College, International Offices, and the new church functions will be set up, all within those usable areas.

Of course, most of the work as always is done by the single men. Will they really go the extra mile and put this high-tech flooring in? Naaaah! The leadership have always found ways to cut corners and make the buildings APPEAR nice. Once in a while they will see the need to splurge and hire professionals to do the work; however, if they can find a way to squeeze more work out of the single men, they will. The "minister's college" will not need a whole lot of room since there are hardly enough people left to actually funnel through the program.

Peter F. Paine wrote: Phase 2 is to determine the needs for future growth (that's where all of us can have input!), and then survey and design the cleared land for more facilities, especially a worship center. We will then look to modify the existing buildings, and their heating/air/plumbing systems to accommodate the new construction.

Don't beliieve the hype. PFP and EJT have never accepted anyone else's input unless it was within their scope of approval. Many ideas will be offered but most will sadly be rejected. The status quo will be maintained. We have heard this song and dance before for many years about new buildings, but those have proven false every single time. No new building will ever emerge. We never saw one in Waukegan for the International HQ, so why should we expect anything different in Norfolk?

Peter F. Paine: Phase 3 will be to actually build the new buildings! Of course, through all this, we will need to continue raising funds and support for the entire project.

That's right. Keep sending these criminals money to finance their new homes, motorcycles, and vacations...the whole building fund is just a field of dreams that will never come true. They have lied about the buildings all this time, and they will continue to do so until they get caught or no one is left to be bled dry. At least Kevin Costner built his field of dreams!

[bramble]

Peter F. Paine wrote: Phase 1 is to get into the building, make as much of it functional as practical, do major cleanup and restoration. One nice touch will be the installation of a very durable, high-tech flooring in all hallways and classrooms. During this time, the Ministers College, International Offices, and the new church functions will be set up, all within those usable areas.

:DIMO it is more like a field house of dreams. I wonder what they mean by "high tech flooring"--cork? rubber? Some university field houses have high tech flooring for runners it has some bounce to it to be easier on the knees. They should really put down carpet or rather just QUIT WHILE THEY ARE BEHIND!

Logic Lesson:

single men : laborers :: eunich : slave ANY QUESTIONS?

[turningjapanese]

Any changes they make to this building will be for aesthetic purposes. They won't invest much, preferring to pocket any cash that is available. They do have to make it somewhat attractive, to pull in any unsuspecting newbies. The outside looks like a freakin' detention center. They will probably focus on the offices for the phony pastors...Leather furniture; beautiful carpet. Eventually, though, the cost of maintaining that Warehouse of Fools will surpass the income, so they will bail again--they called the last place "practice". What will they call this place when it crumbles? We'll see what they come up with.

They will NEVER EVER be able to build some glorified sanctuary that some of the other Mega-churches have. That is only the line they are using to pull people in and string them along.

[turningjapanese]

http://homepage.mac.com/rsnow60085/gallery/week_of_21708/outside_view_of_entrance.html

[turningjapanese]

They forgot to mention the building was originally owned by Prince.


http://homepage.mac.com/rsnow60085/gallery/week_of_12708/removing_old_carpet_3.html

[John Cady]

Yeah...but Prince has better taste. And he's straight.

[bramble]

It does look a bit like the First Avenue Night Club.(LOL) It just needs a bit more Black and White paint, a cool sound system and audio visual equiptment...oh yeah funky yet boring dance music!

I still prefer the roller rink concept.

Prince straight? maybe...maybe not...at least he prefers adults!

[turningjapanese]

Yeah, back in January we predicted that place was a dump...obviously, that's why they didn't post pictures.

Now we see why. That place is worse than I thought. Looks like a run-down juvie home.

Oh, well...perhaps this place will provide more "practice" for their next armpit of a project.

Maybe they can take on a public housing complex in the future.

tj

ps...replacing carpet does not elimate a mold issue.

[bramble]

When people lose sight of God they lose sight of beauty. Because they have lost sight of beauty they have not the slightest notion how a building can be sacred and glorify God. They don't know what it should look like....

[turningjapanese]

Paines abandoned Waukegan...which already looks like a dump...to move to another. Waukegan, as a whole, is in extreme decline.

They are moving to be closer to the hub of our military.

The premise of the move is to "save souls and spread the gospel," via the sailors.

The REAL reason for CFCMI's move is to tap the financial resources of those enlisted to promote their personal ego agendas and secure retirement funding.

Out of greed, they "invited" everyone along to ride their crazy train to VA. Some have moved and will continue to sacrifice and support leaders' lifestyles while believing their rewards will be received in Heaven. Other parishoners figure out they've been screwed over. Newbies will be sucked in, but will leave. Eventually, CFCMI crumbles. Pastors bail and retire somewhere warm. Unfortunately, a few end up old, broke and forgotten in the geriatric ward at the local VA Hospital, entertained by singing girl scouts or perhaps a visiting therapy dog or two. Sad.

[turningjapanese]

It's fitting they bought a dump for all their garbage:


http://homepage.mac.com/rsnow60085/gallery/week_of_21708/outside_view_from_entrance.html

Who's gonna get the van with "free candy" written on it...Dan? Or is he still trying to solicit an RV-"Rolling turd" type vehicle for roadtrips down to Mexico to scrounge up some fresh Latino Boyz?

CFCMI=Christians Fiendishly Covertly Molesting Innocents.

Norfolk, you have been warned:

www.abusivechurches.com

[bramble]

A pep talk from CFC pastors explaining why and how the consolidation will work...

1) "Pray" translation: pray.

2) "Work in harmony with leadership." translation: Obey pastors and don't do any work outside of CFCMI.

3) "Stay focused" translation: eat, drink, breathe, sleep CFCMI. Do not associate with outsiders. There is not time for that.

4) "Stay encouraged" Do not be realistic. Don't think about walking out even though we are trying to snow you again.


2008 Goals for Capitol Campaign:

Ask for more building money.

Update Websites more frequently.

Give more sermons on stewardship trans: ask for more money.

Change "Time to Give Thanks" to "Mission that Matters" (how about Mission Impossible!)

Ask for more money from pulpit.


2009-2010 goals:

Dedicate new building

have an international conference

visit Holy Land again

have 100 visitors in church every week

start 50 fellowships in usa, 4 worldwide every year

1000 baptisms year (for 2008 expect about 40-60) (LOL)


Don't believe me? See www.cfcmi.org (http://www.cfcmi.org)

[bramble]

Judging by the building photos the amateurs are at it again. They are painting--finally! They are pouring this rubbery liquid stuff all over their tile floors. Appearance wise this building will look nice, but is it wise to put canned floor covering over tile. I thought tile was supposed to be a status symbol! Just think of all the inhalents! Anyone getting woozy?

Looks like they will be spending Easter at their favorite hotel. (LOL)

[turningjapanese]

Since when is paint considered "high-tech"?

Just curious.

[bramble]

www.cfcmi.org (http://www.cfcmi.org) has posted new building pictures. They are J-Pegging them now. I guess they like having an audience. I'm not sure who is actually working and who is just hamming it up for the camera. I can't say I recognise anyone--which could be a good sign.

I am always hopeful for walkouts.

[turningjapanese]

They posted a picture of some donated office furniture.

Why do they need to solicit for donations, when the pastors take all these vacations and drive high-end luxury cars?

I bet this "donated" furniture WON'T end up in their personal offices. Maybe they will use it for the ghost college, or sell it to buy some leather riding chaps!!!!

[bramble]

They posted a picture of some donated office furniture.

Why do they need to solicit for donations, when the pastors take all these vacations and drive high-end luxury cars?

I bet this "donated" furniture WON'T end up in their personal offices. Maybe they will use it for the ghost college, or sell it to buy some leather riding chaps!!!!

I couldn't help noticing one of the pictures from Waukegan. Two guys --one is Paine--holding up a gigantic Crucifix on the bumper of a Chevy pickup. The caption says. "Not everything will be shipped". Well, if they don't want it they should donate it to a Catholic Church or sell it to someone who would appreciate it. It is probably worth several hundred dollars. It was probably a souvenir from the Holy Land. So many craftmen over there sell those religious articles to tourists/pilgrims. It is their only form of livlihood.

If CFCMI is so "Jesus Name Only" oriented I wonder why they wouldn't treasure it.

[turningjapanese]

They will begin to hold services next Sunday. Good on them. If you plan to attend,

DON'T FORGET TO BRING THE CHECKBOOK!!!!!!!



**all you Ex-CFCMI NOR-"folk"...I'm sure the Pastors would LOVE to see you there!

And bring your friends!

[bramble]

There were not pictures from yesterday. Was there first service a complete debacle? They pulled the page that says, "Tommorow will be our very first service in our brand new building". Something must have gone terribly wrong. (IMO)

Maybe everyone bailed now that their work is complete (LOL). One can only hope.

[turningjapanese]

Terribly wrong...how about Terribly Right??


It's about time people start wising up to CFC's game.

Looks like their "open for business" sign didn't generate much interest. (yawn.)



Maybe the remaining congregation will soon figure out there are better ways to spend their hard-earned cash....contributing to Ed Thomas' 401k should be at the bottom of the list!

[bramble]

Terribly wrong...how about Terribly Right??


It's about time people start wising up to CFC's game.

Looks like their "open for business" sign didn't generate much interest. (yawn.)



Maybe the remaining congregation will soon figure out there are better ways to spend their hard-earned cash....contributing to Ed Thomas' 401k should be at the bottom of the list!

I'm still suprised there are no pictures of their service. They show people setting up chairs. I see some musicians. I see many empty chairs near their corner of the room.

There seem to be more chairs than I can count people in their Church. IMO they want to make themselves look large in numbers as if not all has arrived, yet. I realize these pictures were taken on Sat, 4/5.

From the outside there are still boarded up windows, gravel that needs to be swept up, and so forth. There is a huge banner that looks like one some churches would use to advertise their bazzars or a chicken-que. I wonder if they even had a service there on Sun, 4/6.

[bramble]

A few photographs were taken off the New Building Progress page. Is it possible there was another massive walkout? Was anyone Disfellowshipped?

They list ONE baptism on April 6. Maybe that person was baptised in the Atlantic! (LOL) There are still no Sunday service pictures. Are they still at the hotel?

Interesting how this CFCMI grand reopening coincidides with that Cult in Texas being raided by police. They say it is the biggest child abuse case in U.S. history! I think there might be enough similarity between their founder and LR Davis to remind people in CFC of what they have been put through.

[turningjapanese]

Yeah, whether they force you to have a ton of kids with an old guy, drink Kool-aid or hand over your wallet to a sex offender's family, it's still a cult exercising mind control.

tj

[John Cady]

CFCMI Floor Plan (http://www.geocities.com/jsc1215/cfcmi_layout.pdf)

I downloaded and saved this floor plan before it too is deleted by the leadership. The floor plan is very unorganized, and does not look like it will help bring any new people into the church.

Swimming Pool - it needs to be gutted and replaced with a floor, turning it into the main sanctuary. Swimming pools in public buildings are a liability unless there are qualified lifeguards present to monitor the activities. Unless, of course, they plan on baptizing hundreds like they say they are...

Baptistry - hidden away in the inner workings of the building, one wouldn't even think they still baptized anybody unless they saw the floor plan. Most churches place the baptistry in the sanctuary.

Fellowship Hall/Sanctuary - Yes, cram everyone into the smaller room to give the appearance of a bigger crowd. The photos show that it is harder for everyone to enjoy themselves in that place; won't be long before Ed rebukes everyone for not "opening up" in their worship. They probably would if there was more room, and the place was not like a sardine can.

Houston - this must be the mystery room. What is its purpose? Is this Pam and Debbie's office? Are they relocating anyone from Houston?

Storage/Boiler rooms - Wow! Lots and lots of room to put things...and places to hide out. Remember the Waukegan building? That had lots of hiding places too, and even some of the rooms were actual bedrooms for selected staffers. Are we seeing a return to this too?

Offices - Only Pete and Ed have their own offices. Sorry, Bruce. Ed has a closet and Pete doesn't, so this may mean the power shift is still in progress...wouldn't the king have the best of everything? But look, Pat Taylor and Christine have their own offices too. Of course, Christine will always find a way to pawn her work onto some unsuspecting staffer while she takes her daughters out to the mall, etc. Bruce, Hubert, and the other "pastors" will have to share the general office with the treasurer and other staff. Dan, thankfully, has been left in San Diego where he and Joe Watson can be left to their own devices.

Classrooms - most churches with a school or a proposed school will have relatively small classrooms. However, nothing has been set up for the *minister's college* - maybe that is the Houston room?

Enough of the guided tour for now.

[bramble]

Yes, the Houston Room was a mystery to me too. Is that space reserved for all the seemy things that people aren't supposed to know about?

I printed the building layout. Curious how the worship area is less than half the size of the basketball court. IMO there weren't even 100 present last Sun. (4-6-08)

Might they repair the pool then put a security door on in like hotels do to keep kiddies from falling in. Reminds me of the old "Swim and Stay Fit" program. (LOL) We know some of the guys could use that. Heck we all could use that!

[turningjapanese]

That building was not built to be a church. Because it is an old money pit, I'm sure the owners were eager to unload it, and Thomas got it for a steal.


CFCMI will keep putting lipstick on the pig; like they always do.

[bramble]

If CFCMI wanted to be legitimate they should take some vo-tech classes in architecture, plumbing, electricity etc. get licensed, and run a full time renovation buisness. This seems to be area of interest for them. The only rub is that they could no longer bully the single men into volunteering. They would actually have to pay them.:rolleyes:

[turningjapanese]

That is a great idea!!!! Home remodeling is a hot-spot for scam artists!

Maybe they could use the Houston Room to set up a telemarketing firm, and bilk $$$ from seniors at the home, telling them their donations will be used to fund a church!

They could fall back on drug dealing, but preachin' looks so much more sincere....and it's less work, plus your clientele probably won't be tempted to shoot you.

[bramble]

At www.cfcmi.org (http://www.cfcmi.org) there are new pictures. Those dudes are still a-mopin' floors and a-paintin' doors. Too bad they must fellowship and work simultaneously. It may be more efficent that way. LOL Doesn't God want us to rest sometimes, too? Don't interpersonal relationships matter? Was man made for work or was work made for man?

They just got a new TV or computer monitor. It looks like it cost a pretty penny. Someone in CFC has money!!

[turningjapanese]

Well, SOMEBODY has to make that crackhouse resemble a church...Why bother hiring painters and a janitorial service when you have the Navy guys?

Guess they don't mind being busy-bodies for the Pastors.

[bramble]

Well, www.cfcmi.org (http://www.cfcmi.org) has put up some new photos--a week's worth. They just went up this morning. They are still scraping paint and doing wiring. I
There is also a background picture of their Fanatasy Mega Church. I guess they went to visit the architect.

I wish those people would get a clue. I guess all we can do is pray.

[turningjapanese]

Nice try with the pics of the Fantasy Mega Church.

All they did was import some images from the net, and paste some words on a picture of their current building.

I'm still not buying it.

[John Cady]

http://www.geocities.com/jsc1215/fantasychurch.jpg

[turningjapanese]

If they built it...would I go?


No.

[bramble]

Touche' John! Great post!

[bramble]

The problems as I see it is that CFCMI puts too much emphasis on church and not enough emphasis on Church. The former meaning building and the latter meaning the people.

The important part is that we come together to worship God. We can do so in any number of places. We can use many forms of worship and prayer.

In CFC people are serving their pastor and whatever the building of the day is. I don't hear much about God in their sermons. It's a lot about giving more money, avoiding outsiders, coming to THEIR church to avoid going to Hell.
(see www.pillars.net (http://www.pillars.net))

Next year they may move again from the Boys' Club. It wouldn't suprise me! Last year they were in the last location they fixed up for six months with a hotel layover in between. What place will they be scraping, painting and rewiring next?

[bramble]

There are new pictures on the CFC site. They appear to be having a planning meeting about their programs within CFC. They have their dry erase board out again. Most of the congregation looks pretty bored. The Church is packed yet, it is also pretty small.

In one picture Thomas is sitting with Paine in the front of the Church. Thomas looks steamed about something.

[bramble]

Putting all the information together I now see that the new CFCMI Building is a health hazard. The pictures of the ceiling from February show signs of a leaky roof. I wonder if they are planning to replace that roof. I see in the recent pictures Okeima P. is trying to clean up a rusty part from the ventilation system.

I wonder why these guys are made to servile work on a Sunday let alone Mothers' Day. Oh brother!

If their climate control system is rusty, leaky, moldy and blowing bacteria all over the place this is a problem. CFCMI may in time see some serious and chronic health problems emerging. Now we know why this building was off loaded in the first place. I hope these situations can be satisfactorily resolved.

I knew a lady who was hospitalized for a neurological disease caused by a mold infection from working in a sick, moldy building. She did recover. She returned to work but quit first chance she got. What she had almost killed her.

[turningjapanese]

I saw the planning meeting notes.

Paine wrote "hospital" and "homeless shelter."

Maybe that is where they are putting all the old "recycled eunichs" that are moving to Norfolk? We'll see...

[bramble]

I saw the planning meeting notes.

Paine wrote "hospital" and "homeless shelter."

Maybe that is where they are putting all the old "recycled eunichs" that are moving to Norfolk? We'll see...

IMO, it has more to do with outreach and places to rercruit future members. It could be community service to make them look respectable.

No doubt many of these old, tired eunichs will end up in hospitals and homeless shelters. If that doesn't give CFCMI a black eye nothing will--Actually, it would be a bit difficult to top L. R. Davis' misdeeds.

Don't you wish these guys would grow up and get a clue!

[turningjapanese]

Some people actually prefer to live in an infantile state; having all your needs met and decisions made for you by "authoritarian figures."

But, when you are no longer useful to the organization, you wil be discarded like old furniture or a broken appliance. Just ask Dick Brand about that.

[Hostile Duty]

What happened to Dick?


Some people actually prefer to live in an infantile state; having all your needs met and decisions made for you by "authoritarian figures."

But, when you are no longer useful to the organization, you wil be discarded like old furniture or a broken appliance. Just ask Dick Brand about that.

[John Cady]

Dick Brand is still in Waukegan with his wife Barbara. He is no longer in charge of the Minister's College because Ed wanted someone who was actively keeping his "eunuch" vow. Bruce Wilson is in charge of the ghost college now.

I guess that coupled with his health problems, Ed did not want a broke "Dick" around the premises.

[turningjapanese]

Oh, Man! haha!

[Hostile Duty]

Thanks for the info John. I wonder what he does now that he is no longer captain of the "SS Eunichship"? (I still laugh at this term you coined!)

Between you and I, I think that we could discuss all sorts of "interesting" things about the "single menz".

By the way, I saw pics of some of the staffers last night... whew! Some look VERY bad. Al J. looks unhealthy and Bill G. does not look happy. I really wish my old friends would wake up and find a healthier place to worship and maybe be near their families. It is never too late.

Dick Brand is still in Waukegan with his wife Barbara. He is no longer in charge of the Minister's College because Ed wanted someone who was actively keeping his "eunuch" vow. Bruce Wilson is in charge of the ghost college now.

I guess that coupled with his health problems, Ed did not want a broke "Dick" around the premises.

[bramble]

I too, can't help but notice how these guys look sad, ill, bored, maybe a bit out of it--probably exhausted. There is something different about their eyes. I can't put my finger on it. Fear? Exhaustion?

I pray for these guys every night. I believe that God hears our prayers and theirs too. IMO, some of them need to realize that they WANT to leave. They just aren't there, yet.

Are any of these guys shown doing elecrical wiring qualified?

[turningjapanese]

Are any of these guys shown "pastoring" qualified?

[bramble]

The new pictures seem a bit eerie. They are having fun at our expense. NO PEOPLE!!!

They probably just went on a Quixtar, um, Church picnic.

[turningjapanese]

I would really love to see a vacant CFCMI.

[John Cady]

Just let it not be another White Night...Norfolk would not want a Jonestown-like tragedy in their city.

[bramble]

Just let it not be another White Night...Norfolk would not want a Jonestown-like tragedy in their city.

Ditto! Mega Dittos, even!

[John Cady]

Hey folks, the fun bunch took down their last post from May 25...obviously because there were NO PEOPLE!

[bramble]

Hey folks, the fun bunch took down their last post from May 25...obviously because there were NO PEOPLE!

I checked again The pictures are still there--five of them.

As to the empty church, I wonder what all it means. IMO, they went on a picnic, had outdoor service, or hog roast etc. As much as I wish it were so, I doubt it was an exodus. But wouldn't it be something...

The the one of the messy office is not flattering. That lounge chair is obviously someone's bed.

They're up to something or maybe some prankster in CFC posted those pictures. There are enough cynics inside CFC to do something rebellious, or humorous, I think. They're just razzing us or their leadership.

[turningjapanese]

My vote: Chips and Kool-Aid in the new picnic shelter.

And where did LR's favorite couch cushions go....lost in the move? Anyone check Bruce's office?

I really dig their furniture. I think I had one of those plastic plants in my dorm at college. The other stuff looks like it was swiped off the curb before the garbage men came.

[bramble]

I was going over some of the ABC threads, darn, I wish their search function worked. It did me good to reread those old posts.

Anyway, I got to thinking, do any of you all think that the building has any sort of surveillance equipment in it? You know, microphones, cameras--kind of like the "Big Brother House". Is that why lots of the wiring was being done by 'pastors'?

By the way, in my surfing the web I have come to find that certain guys in CFC really like watching Big Brother and have posted on internet blogs as to who the they wanted to win. I forget the link, but isn't that a bit ironic?

[turningjapanese]

CFCMI a "reality" show? That's pretty funny.

[bramble]

CFCMI a "reality" show? That's pretty funny.

I saw the pilot episiode. The host said that there were cameras and microphones everywhere--even in the bathroom. The occupants can walk out any time they want, but then can't get back in EVER.

There are alliances, back biting, double crossing, narcing. Everyone wants to be the head of household or at least part of his inner circle. Sound familliar?

[turningjapanese]

"Big Brother"....or... "Hell's Kitchen"?

(Where that chef makes his "apprentices" work like dogs while he screams and verbally abuses them.)

How 'bout that?

[bramble]

"Big Brother"....or... "Hell's Kitchen"?

(Where that chef makes his "apprentices" work like dogs while he screams and verbally abuses them.)

How 'bout that?

There was that one pastor, Roland S. He was a little like Chef Ramsey except Roland threw knives.:eek: YIKES!!

[John Cady]

Roland was a bit of a loose cannon, even though he was pretty well-mannered with me. He caused one single man to walk out after Roland threw a knife at him in the kitchen in Norfolk.

[turningjapanese]

Nothing like a good ole knife-throwin' to ruin your Christian testimony!

"Hell's Kitchen" for sure.

BTW, has the cook's position been filled yet? I wonder...time to check the job boards.

[turningjapanese]

My vote: Chips and Kool-Aid in the new picnic shelter.




I WIN!!!!!!!!

[bramble]

I WIN!!!!!!!!

So where's the hog for their hog roaster? I see the Kool-Ade. Where are the chips?

Many of their members are missing. Maybe they got wise and found something better to do.

They were just having fun with us! (LOL)

[turningjapanese]

Did you get a load of their captions???


"Setup is underway for an enormous Memorial Day picnic at the church!"

Note: "enormous." Yeah, right. They show the Navy guys doing the grunt yardwork.

Then...
"The church family and guests begin arriving. And they brought baked goods! The pastors welcome everyone and ask a blessing on the food. Let the games begin!"

I guess the Royals make their grand entrance, although there were no pics. Apparently they splurged on some store-bought cookies too. I hope nobody drank the Kool-Aid.

No hog roaster in sight; but maybe they showed up on the Harleys. (get it, HOG?!)
I was looking for the dunk tank, or "throw the pie in Deb's face for a buck," but no deal. Did Hazel win the egg toss? Did Pete and Ed fight it out for Head Pastorship via the "sackrace?"
Seeing that the weather looked great, I couldn't figure out why the crowd was so small....considering this was supposed to be some "enormous" event, of omnipotent proportions and all...
Oh, well...maybe next year will be better. Not too many activities for the kiddies either. Maybe next year they can hire a clown.

TJ
PS: Did you know that John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer, was a clown?

[bramble]

Did you get a load of their captions???


"Setup is underway for an enormous Memorial Day picnic at the church!"

Note: "enormous." Yeah, right. They show the Navy guys doing the grunt yardwork.

Then...
"The church family and guests begin arriving. And they brought baked goods! The pastors welcome everyone and ask a blessing on the food. Let the games begin!"

I guess the Royals make their grand entrance, although there were no pics. Apparently they splurged on some store-bought cookies too. I hope nobody drank the Kool-Aid.
Don't drink the Kool-Ade!!! I don' see much variety. Mostly cookies and cake.


No hog roaster in sight; but maybe they showed up on the Harleys. (get it, HOG?!)
I was looking for the dunk tank, or "throw the pie in Deb's face for a buck," but no deal. Did Hazel win the egg toss? Did Pete and Ed fight it out for Head Pastorship via the "sackrace?"
Seeing that the weather looked great, I couldn't figure out why the crowd was so small....considering this was supposed to be some "enormous" event, of omnipotent proportions and all...
Oh, well...maybe next year will be better. Not too many activities for the kiddies either. Maybe next year they can hire a clown. Ya mean Kinko the Kid Loving Clown? I certainly hope not!! :eek:

They took their time posting because even some of their prized oldheads skipped out. If it were up to me I would have gone anywhere but there.
They were just playing with us by making us wait. They may have needed pastoral approval before posting. Lots of puffery and fluff not many people, not much food, not much fun!

I saw some 15 year old cars in their lot. Nothing rusts much in Norfolk. The only hogs you would find there go 'rrrrrooooommm'. I did see the guys setting up a hog roaster--those big grills with the domed top. No beasts to roast. No one is shown eating anything. Curious!

Their games leave a lot to be desired. It sure looks boring.

TJ
PS: Did you know that John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer, was a clown? His best friend for a while was Jay North aka: Dennis the Menace, Bam Bam, and Fred from Scooby Doo! Then Jay must have found God and therapy. I saw Jay on a talk show once or twice. Gacy a clown? Who knew!

[bramble]

Isn't it interesting to not how CFCMI only posts picture of renovation, dinners and picn-nics but never of Sunday Services? Are they really hurting that much for numbers?

[John Cady]

I was reading their latest post on the building, and they announced on 07/24/2008 that Phase 1 is almost completed. I saw more pics of new sailors who have been recruited into their collective; a few oldheads are in the pictures too, trying so hard to make this look worthwhile.

I find it also amazing how they NEVER show photos of services or baptisms. No one has been baptized in almost two months...this gives a projected total for 2008 of somewhere between 35 and 40 people. This is a sure sign of a church in decline.

I think within the next couple years CFCMI will be finished.

[bramble]

I was reading their latest post on the building, and they announced on 07/24/2008 that Phase 1 is almost completed. I saw more pics of new sailors who have been recruited into their collective; a few oldheads are in the pictures too, trying so hard to make this look worthwhile.

I find it also amazing how they NEVER show photos of services or baptisms. No one has been baptized in almost two months...this gives a projected total for 2008 of somewhere between 35 and 40 people. This is a sure sign of a church in decline.

I think within the next couple years CFCMI will be finished.

Finished? AMEN!

[turningjapanese]

Phase 1 completed? So....they're almost done putting lipstick on the pig.

Then they post a picture of an open tool box?

Big Deal.

[harrol]

It looks like they are reaping the spiritual desolation that they have sown. God in His patient mercy gave them a chance to repent but their knees and necks are too stiff. Now their confusion is being fulfilled and soon they will weep but remain too arrogant and stubborn to repent to God for their sins.

[bramble]

Phase 1 completed? So....they're almost done putting lipstick on the pig.

Then they post a picture of an open tool box?

Big Deal.

The end of Phase One is when they reassemble all of their room dividers they hauled from Waukegan! They look so 1970's. It has to do with the color.

Tool Box--someone is showing off his new toy!!

Lipstick on Pig--I wonder if this might somehow also apply to Davis? LOL

[turningjapanese]

Love people and use things,
don't love things and use people.

Art DeMoss

[cfcmi]

CFCMI Waukegan - End of an Era

The following message was sent via FactNet on 08/15/2008:

turningjapanese: Took a ride past CFC WAukTowN today......guess what I saw. A big DUMPSTER outside the building, with permits posted in the windows. Had to take a look; this is what I saw:

- Dumpster was FULL of construction garbage, most of it mold-infested insulation.
- CFC sign on building was torn off, junk piled in parking lot. This included a piano of some sort. Crap everywhere. Also in parking lot were mobile "classroom" type trailers.
- Freestanding CFC sign announcing they were moving in August; now meeting at a hotel.

I peeked in the windows; hallways were torn apart; rug gone.

POSTED on DOORS:
- Plans for ASBESTOS REMOVAL. Floor plans posted; the word "GROSS" circled on one part of sanctuary. Yes, CFC IS GROSS. OSHA warnings.

3 BUILDING PERMITS; expiring January 2009; (issued July 2008)
- One for interior demolition of building, $10,000 projected cost
- One for Renovation, $24,000
- One for "Renovation of School", $163,000

MY TAKE ON THIS:
I believe CFC has either SOLD the building, or is RENTING to the Waukegan School District for use as a school building. The thought of this "church" building being used to educate kids makes me want to puke. I will try and find out who now owns this property. I have NO IDEA who is footing the bill for this construction; CFC IS listed as the owner of the property on the permits.

SideNotes:
The neighborhood there was looking REALLY NASTY. Bums walking all over, a feeling of "ghetto" pervaded. I got the major Creeps from being there... I feel like I need a shower; I am NOT kidding!

I will try to find out the deal with the building...Waukeganites love to talk!!!

Admin: I ran several searches to see the exact outcome of the building sale, and I found nothing so far other than the news of CFCMI former headquarters being on the market. However, I did find out a little about the previous owners of the building which sheds some light on the material condition of the property.

The Swedish Glee Club used to own the building on 621 Belvediere Street from 1948 (its construction) to 1988, when CFCMI bought the property. Since L.R. Davis and Peter F. Paine relied on the single men to take on the renovation of a former club into a church, no thought was given to the unseen hazards which often accompany older buildings.

Asbestos is a safety hazard commonly found in older buildings; its use as a form of insulation and fire retardant material was discontinued after it was determined long-term exposure led to lung damage. No outisde contractors ever went through the walls or ceilings to verify the existence of asbestos; had that occurred, the initial move would have been delayed until this critical safety item was cleared. This act of negligence means untold thousands - including pastors and staffers who were there on a daily basis - were breathing asbestos dust for nearly 20 years without realizing it. Fortunately the hazard is now being removed before the city's children enter the structure.

Mold is another serious hazard that has drawn more attention. Breathing mold spores causes lung damage and other life-threatening conditions. Again, CFCMI's reluctance to employ outside contractors and building inspectors prevented early detection of mold hazards and allow the problem to be eliminated with minimal exposure. Given the building was already 40 years old when CFCMI moved in, how much mold was already present? No one knows for sure, but in light of this new find, one has to wonder if Jay Owens' pneumonia could have been precipitated by breathing mold during the renovation in 1987-88. Just like asbestos, it is likely that thousands of people were unknowingly exposed to mold over the years due to the leadership's lack of foresight.

Other problems the construction crew encountered:

- Electrical. Very few men in CFCMI were licensed electricians. While there were quite a good number who had electrical/electronic backgrounds in the military, there is a major difference between marine and industrial electrical. It would not be surprising if there were multiple National Electrical Code violations hidden in the false ceilings. It is also possible some of the original wiring from the 1940s had deteriorated and needed to be replaced due to shock and fire hazards.

- Heating and Air Conditioning. CFCMI's HVAC system was also an ancient entity. The main air conditioner was installed in 1968; in 1999 it broke down and required critical parts to be restored to service. There was considerable difficulty in locating parts because the unit (and manufacturer) was discontinued in the mid-1980s, but after a few weeks it was operational. The heating unit was a natural gas-powered boiler; most likely it too had been around as long, and may have been part of the originial building plan. In reference to the asbestos problem, there was probably a good bit of asbestos insulation on the heating system piping.

- Surveillance system. CFCMI's headquarters placed a high priority on its surveillance system, especially where the children gathered. Cameras were installed in the fellowship hall, Sunday school rooms/nursery, main hallway, and basement area where the general offices were. The intent was to avoid a repeat of the molestation incidents which were brought up during the L.R. Davis trial; however, the Mike Larsen incident occurred in 1994, AFTER the system was installed. While it is common for even churches to install outside cameras to protect against burglars and robbers, CFCMI's extensive use of surveillance equipment made the building feel somewhat creepy.

- Hidden rooms throughout the building. As the construction crews continue to renovate the building, they will no doubt run into "hidden rooms". Since the CFCMI headquarters was a fairly large building, there were plenty of obscure rooms throughout the building...especially in the basement. It must be noted that at least up to the mid-1990s there was at least one room that was set up as a residence by staffers in Waukegan. This would have created a zoning and building code violation had it been made public back then. These little-known rooms also created secret compartments for some of men to meet and have their sordid rendezvous, thus creating more material for the courts when L.R. Davis was convicted. Who knows what the new builders may have found as they work their way through the aging structure? That thought alone is unsettling and upsetting.

If Peter F. Paine and Ed Thomas are in fact renting the property, they could probably live well for some time even after CFCMI closes its final chapter. A large building with all of its operational needs costs a lot in rent and maintenance; they will certainly draw a profit. In one aspect, I am glad to see this era come to an end. The legacy and memories, however, will continue for years to come.

[bramble]

CFCMI Waukegan - End of an Era

The following message was sent via FactNet on 08/15/2008:

turningjapanese: Took a ride past CFC WAukTowN today......guess what I saw. A big DUMPSTER outside the building, with permits posted in the windows. Had to take a look; this is what I saw:

- Dumpster was FULL of construction garbage, most of it mold-infested insulation.
- CFC sign on building was torn off, junk piled in parking lot. This included a piano of some sort. Crap everywhere. Also in parking lot were mobile "classroom" type trailers.
- Freestanding CFC sign announcing they were moving in August; now meeting at a hotel.

I peeked in the windows; hallways were torn apart; rug gone.

POSTED on DOORS:
- Plans for ASBESTOS REMOVAL. Floor plans posted; the word "GROSS" circled on one part of sanctuary. Yes, CFC IS GROSS. OSHA warnings.

3 BUILDING PERMITS; expiring January 2009; (issued July 2008)
- One for interior demolition of building, $10,000 projected cost
- One for Renovation, $24,000
- One for "Renovation of School", $163,000

MY TAKE ON THIS:
I believe CFC has either SOLD the building, or is RENTING to the Waukegan School District for use as a school building. The thought of this "church" building being used to educate kids makes me want to puke. I will try and find out who now owns this property. I have NO IDEA who is footing the bill for this construction; CFC IS listed as the owner of the property on the permits.

SideNotes:
The neighborhood there was looking REALLY NASTY. Bums walking all over, a feeling of "ghetto" pervaded. I got the major Creeps from being there... I feel like I need a shower; I am NOT kidding!

I will try to find out the deal with the building...Waukeganites love to talk!!!

Admin: I ran several searches to see the exact outcome of the building sale, and I found nothing so far other than the news of CFCMI former headquarters being on the market. However, I did find out a little about the previous owners of the building which sheds some light on the material condition of the property.

The Swedish Glee Club used to own the building on 621 Belvediere Street from 1948 (its construction) to 1988, when CFCMI bought the property. Since L.R. Davis and Peter F. Paine relied on the single men to take on the renovation of a former club into a church, no thought was given to the unseen hazards which often accompany older buildings.

Asbestos is a safety hazard commonly found in older buildings; its use as a form of insulation and fire retardant material was discontinued after it was determined long-term exposure led to lung damage. No outisde contractors ever went through the walls or ceilings to verify the existence of asbestos; had that occurred, the initial move would have been delayed until this critical safety item was cleared. This act of negligence means untold thousands - including pastors and staffers who were there on a daily basis - were breathing asbestos dust for nearly 20 years without realizing it. Fortunately the hazard is now being removed before the city's children enter the structure.

Mold is another serious hazard that has drawn more attention. Breathing mold spores causes lung damage and other life-threatening conditions. Again, CFCMI's reluctance to employ outside contractors and building inspectors prevented early detection of mold hazards and allow the problem to be eliminated with minimal exposure. Given the building was already 40 years old when CFCMI moved in, how much mold was already present? No one knows for sure, but in light of this new find, one has to wonder if Jay Owens' pneumonia could have been precipitated by breathing mold during the renovation in 1987-88. Just like asbestos, it is likely that thousands of people were unknowingly exposed to mold over the years due to the leadership's lack of foresight.

Other problems the construction crew encountered:

- Electrical. Very few men in CFCMI were licensed electricians. While there were quite a good number who had electrical/electronic backgrounds in the military, there is a major difference between marine and industrial electrical. It would not be surprising if there were multiple National Electrical Code violations hidden in the false ceilings. It is also possible some of the original wiring from the 1940s had deteriorated and needed to be replaced due to shock and fire hazards.

- Heating and Air Conditioning. CFCMI's HVAC system was also an ancient entity. The main air conditioner was installed in 1968; in 1999 it broke down and required critical parts to be restored to service. There was considerable difficulty in locating parts because the unit (and manufacturer) was discontinued in the mid-1980s, but after a few weeks it was operational. The heating unit was a natural gas-powered boiler; most likely it too had been around as long, and may have been part of the originial building plan. In reference to the asbestos problem, there was probably a good bit of asbestos insulation on the heating system piping.

- Surveillance system. CFCMI's headquarters placed a high priority on its surveillance system, especially where the children gathered. Cameras were installed in the fellowship hall, Sunday school rooms/nursery, main hallway, and basement area where the general offices were. The intent was to avoid a repeat of the molestation incidents which were brought up during the L.R. Davis trial; however, the Mike Larsen incident occurred in 1994, AFTER the system was installed. While it is common for even churches to install outside cameras to protect against burglars and robbers, CFCMI's extensive use of surveillance equipment made the building feel somewhat creepy.

- Hidden rooms throughout the building. As the construction crews continue to renovate the building, they will no doubt run into "hidden rooms". Since the CFCMI headquarters was a fairly large building, there were plenty of obscure rooms throughout the building...especially in the basement. It must be noted that at least up to the mid-1990s there was at least one room that was set up as a residence by staffers in Waukegan. This would have created a zoning and building code violation had it been made public back then. These little-known rooms also created secret compartments for some of men to meet and have their sordid rendezvous, thus creating more material for the courts when L.R. Davis was convicted. Who knows what the new builders may have found as they work their way through the aging structure? That thought alone is unsettling and upsetting.

If Peter F. Paine and Ed Thomas are in fact renting the property, they could probably live well for some time even after CFCMI closes its final chapter. A large building with all of its operational needs costs a lot in rent and maintenance; they will certainly draw a profit. In one aspect, I am glad to see this era come to an end. The legacy and memories, however, will continue for years to come.

Wouldn't it be nice if the City of Waukegan just condemned the joint?!

[turningjapanese]

Forget about Waukegan; it's a done deal.

Focus on Norfolk, as their "show" is attempting to draw and pollute a new audience.

[bramble]

Found on the new and improved CFCMI website:

They post pictures of all their middle aged eunichs, pastors' wives, pastors. This should be a big draw. (LOL) If that is not enough the pastors have put on a car show, motorcycle show. Talk about flaunting their ill gotten wealth!

They now have interest groups as some Churches do: fishing club, motorcycle club, bicycle club and more. The joke is on anyone who thinks that he will get to do anything outside of CFCMI--or whatever they call themselves this month.

There are also have display tables dedicated to: Military Ministry, Women's Fellowship, Men's Fellowship, Children's Ministry, and so on. The oddest one, IMO, was one that had tambourines on it. The table's sign said, 'Praise Ministry' and a smaller sign said, "Do not use other instuments without permission" ODD!
Here is the kicker:

One of the highlights was the dedication of the L. R. Davis Memorial Field in honor of our founding pastor and his family whose dedication and example helped make the ministry what it is today.


Truer words were never spoken. Think of all the young men who are now into their 40's who are no longer on speaking terms with their parents, and haven't seen their pre-CFCMI friends in decades, who have been raped, physically, monitarily, and spiritually. They never married, nor attended college, nor owned property. Their pastor wouldn't let them. Even speaking to women is taboo. L. R. encouraged recruits to go U.A. There are few he didn't hit on. He crammed them into slave like quarters and permitted to sleep only four hours a night. Some were beaten if they dared stand up to Davis. Others were disfellowshipped for challenging his evil ways. A few were kicked out for listening to the wrong kind of music. Anything Davis didn't like was seen as UnGodly. He new next to nothing about music appreciation.

L. R. died in prison nearly a decade ago, but his legacy lives on through these abused middle aged men and the young, gullible sailors currently being dragged in and his family who won't let his memory die. We won't here either.

[bramble]

A few things need to be said about CFCMI holding services in their basketball court. It still looks like a basketball court! The blue thing they are using for a projection screen doesn't work. It it TOO DARK!!!

The hoops are a distraction. The new chairs don't even help make things look any fancier. The chairs were half empty, too. So much about outgrowing the other room! It lacks sufficient reverence to be used for a worship service. I would expect there to be Bibles or prayer books for people to use during their services. Then again, we are talking about CFC. The old Waukegan room dividers are tacky. It is a rouse to make the room look fuller by blocking off empty space to make a false back wall and corridor.

I think they need to take an honest look at themselves. Their numbers are shrinking or staying the same. The last service they showed on the web had just about the same number. Don't expect anyone to be building any great glass cathedral any time soon. A photo on the internet is all that will be built. Waukegan never got their new building finished, either.

THE WORST THING about using a basketball court for a service is that from their floor plan and web photos it is clear that evacuation in an emergency would be extremely difficult--no immediate external exits!! I don't know why I say this, but I feel that I must call this to someone's attention.

I liked the other room better. It has sufficient exits as all real churches do.

[turningjapanese]

Maybe God told Pete that Jesus is a Celtics fan.

[bramble]

Maybe God told Pete that Jesus is a Celtics fan.

I would have though U-Va, but then CFCers, the few who attend college, go to community colleges. :)

They would fit it well with the WaHoos, if you ask me. I wonder if they will have a day that they wear blue and orange.

They should form a basketball team. This is a potentially earnest and honest endeavor.

[turningjapanese]

Those are just about the worst pictures I have ever seen! They are a blurry, out-of-focus mess. Most have no focal point or purpose.

And I only mention it because they were boasting about their new graphic arts and A.V. courses in their men's "college." And by golly, those people in the pics don't look anything like the bright shiny ones on the new website!!

Whoever took those pictures either needs to learn to use their camera or get some talent.

Peace, ya'll!

[bramble]

Those are just about the worst pictures I have ever seen! They are a blurry, out-of-focus mess. Most have no focal point or purpose.

And I only mention it because they were boasting about their new graphic arts and A.V. courses in their men's "college." And by golly, those people in the pics don't look anything like the bright shiny ones on the new website!!

Whoever took those pictures either needs to learn to use their camera or get some talent.

Peace, ya'll!

Do you mean to tell me that the youth in CFC don't look like teen models with chalky white teeth? Are you telling me that the men on their Men's Fellowship page aren't the same healthy and handsome ones in their Church service? Don't those slender wives on the Women's Fellowship page look just like Pam and Deb? :rolleyes:

Their AV IS bad. I think it is because if anyone were any good at using broadcast media the leadership put a stop to them. Pastors would not want these Single Men to excel at it as they might find gainful employment at a real TV station. I have had employers who didn't want to train their employees properly for fear of being outdone---another example of a cultic and abusive environment.

The service pictures were taken with a low end digital camera that works rather slowly--maybe a camera phone. I guess some in the service were either wiggling, shaking or jumping--maybe waving for help.

[turningjapanese]

Well, thankfully I didn't see too many "youth" in the pictures--which is a good thing. I would NEVER want to expose any child to what goes on in there.
(Remember....Ed was the moron who called babies "demonic distractions".)

Matter of fact, I don't think it's safe for ANYONE. JMO.

Peace,
Tj

PS: I don't think Pam or Deb would appreciate having "slender wives" in their women's catgroup either.

[bramble]

Well, thankfully I didn't see too many "youth" in the pictures--which is a good thing. I would NEVER want to expose any child to what goes on in there.
(Remember....Ed was the moron who called babies "demonic distractions".)

Matter of fact, I don't think it's safe for ANYONE. JMO.

Peace,


Tj

PS: I don't think Pam or Deb would appreciate having "slender wives" in their women's catgroup either.

The youth, it seems, are related to LRD or to the other 'ministers'. Apparently, only the privileged get to reproduce. Eunichs live up their name in this regard.

Any young adults raised in CFC leave by age 18. Any other young adults are sailors sucked in--but we all know that.

God Bless!!

[turningjapanese]

So, to continue on with the discussion....does anyone know really know WHY CFC's website does not visually portray the REAL majority of the parishioners?

I'll tell ya why...
To show aging, creepy, sexually ambiguous ex-sailors would not be conducive to recruiting efforts.

Instead, they go with stock internet pics of "happy-family" types to portray themselves.....

But in reality, those soccer-mom women they paste on their website would not waste time supporting Paine/Thomas Industries. Nor would they be caught dead in a 'church' that worships LR Davis the dead child rapist. Nor would they be "fellowshipping" with hags like Pam and Deb.

Ouch! Truth hurts....

[turningjapanese]

Waukegan is no longer listed on as a military fellowship on their site.

Looks like they've "officially" closed up shop in the Great Lakes area!!!!

Now, I'm SURE there are some who have re-joined their cultie-reunion in Norfolk, but for now, let's hope some "little sheep" will move onto greener pastures, after realizing they've been fleeced and dumped. And now that Japan is gone, looks like the limbs are beginning to rot off the church carcass.

Washington fellowship looks pretty bland---bunch of guys sitting in a restaurant.

Florida--who knows, considering the site was last updated like a year ago

Hawaii will remain, as it is a popular vacation destination for the 'royals'.

California---will remain open til Joe W. gets locked up in that nice zoo they have in San Diego.

I'm looking forward to the State of the Church address. I will bet 10 bucks that Paine and company will continue to schmooze about how the ministry will soon see "explosive growth" !! LOL!

My Slovakian Granny used to have a name for scheisters ...wish I could spell it, but I can't. Roughly translated, it means "crooked spine." LOL!

Here's wishing everyone peace (and a wake-up call) in 2009!
Luvs,
TJ

[bramble]

They paid $2.15 Million for this abandoned Boys' and Girls' Club with a leaky roof, leaky floors, and a broken pool. This is all common knowledge. Last year, they spent months patching floors, scraping and painting, even when the paint wasn't flaking. Oh yeah, and they rewired the place! :eek:

In the end, the mortgage will break them. I'm sure members are getting sick of moving and renovating so every year or two. More seem to be wising up and looking for a way out. Future walkouts will further impede CFCMI's ability to pay their spendy mortgage and Pastors' lavish lifestyles.

What will their *NEW* new building be? I'm guessing it will be an abandoned convenience store in Ocean View!

[turningjapanese]

C'mon! They're not ready to vacate that place yet!!!

They haven't even had a pool party.....

Since they've been collecting "Building Funds" for decades, I'm SURE there is enough cash to pay off that mortgage.

And if there ISN'T.....well, that is when the parishioners have a right to demand some accountability for where all that money went. And when the leadership won't disclose that, (which is illegal, btw... ) they can figure it out for themselves that they've been scammed.

Paine/Thomas Industries have PLENTY of personal assets, trust me.

All these 'stewardship' guilt trips and financial 'lectures' are just their way of keeping the squeeze on the members. And now that the economy is so bad, CFC stands to take a big hit, since their sole income is reliant upon others' CONTINUOUS "charitable giving".....and "sacrificial living." CFCMI could dissolve financially at any time, but Paine and Thomas would remain wealthy and unscathed by CFCMI's financial ruin. (collapse of the facade).

CFCMI, as a cult, will collapse but Ed will still have his cars, and Deb will still have enough money for diamonds and her Jenny Craig food, and the only people that will be affected are those long-time culties that have devoted their lives and paychecks to financing the lifestyles of the leadership.

Tj
PS: Ed is right when he says that CFCMI was "never about the bricks and mortar." It's all about what HE has parked in his garage, and it's all about HIM being in the spotlight.

[bramble]

Some pools are fixable others are best removed permanently. Their one sounds like it was neglected. Norfolk has many GOOD pools, I bet. Some hotels will even let people swim there for a few bucks.

A leaky roof should be their first order of business. In the end, renovations have ceased as CFCMI was a con from day one.

I agree, if Ed and Pete sold their homes, cars, airplane etc. Then CFC probably could pay everything off. As far as the economy goes, this is the worst economy since the late 1970's. On a national scale unemployment is around 7. something. I also doubt that Ed and Pete can keep milking their Church as they have been. Their cow has dried up. Time to MOOOVE away from CFCMI. These so called pastors need to get real jobs. McDonald's is probably hiring. Maybe it's their kind of place.

[turningjapanese]

What's easier and offers more status?

Flipping burgers or being a cult leader?

Pete and Ed aren't going to liquidate their personal assets to save CFCMI....because that's how they got those assets in the first place. They'll just financially drive it into a ditch, because they can....and they don't care.

BTW....I doubt Pete or Ed have EVER worked an "honest" day in their life! Hopefully that leaky roof will fall in on them!

[bramble]

If they wanted to go 'legit' they should close the Church, clothe the Church members, then open a health club. They have the facilities. All they need are the faculties (mental) and an SBA loan.

[turningjapanese]

What ever happenend to that pool they had??? Wonder if they use it as their dunk tank.

2 million for a gymnasium and a pool....WTF were they thinking? LOL!!!