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nolurkingonme
New member
Username: nolurkingonme
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.85.147.100
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 1:23 pm: | 
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During the 1980's there were a set of "sub-group" therapies who used trendy books to organize beliefs systems.
One of those sub-sets was using a "tough love" dictum to help them with "theoretically" difficult personalities within their family systems, or within their friendship groups.
Does anyone here have any ideas about "trendy" ideologies that people have used to ruin other people's lives.
Nearly all the amateur, and even some professional people started adhering to their "tough love" theories to help them overcome people whom they couldn't cope with.
This happened in my mother's neighborhood, and in many of the dogmatic churches, and also cults who wound their amateur theories in, and out of their lives, and conversations.
Personally, i think much of it was a crock of bees wax. i believe it was "guru" thinking meant to sell books to other amateur social service theorists.
since my mother's neighborhood has now developed its economics base by undetected illegal methods this ideology has really become a larger social problem.
what do you do, if like in the Soprano's someone like Tony Soprano tries to psychoanalyze you?
Tony Soprano isn't an analyst, but he does have cousins who at least pretend to practice.
I am NOT being off the cuff, or intending to be amusing with this thread, and you don't have to discuss illegal methodologies to post here.
i sincerely would appreciate your response if you feel you have been threatened by "sub group" ideologies, or ideologists who have continued to force this type of thinking on your life, and lifestyle.
thank you. |
artwise_one
Intermediate Member
Username: artwise_one
Post Number: 226
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 63.249.98.168
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 3:54 pm: |
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nolurkingonme, I'm not sure of what specific group from hell that you're referring to.
When I hear the term 'tough-love', I think of Synanon, which is, or was the logical extension of the aa cult, that is if it were to actually evolve it's inherent mean spiritedness. 'Tough-love' started out as some confrontational therapy jargon, psycho-babble justifying mental bullying, entering the mainstream sort of thing.
It never made any sense to me, it's like saying 'abusive-love', as the abusive parent hits the child's while saying that it will hurt the parent more than the child and explains that the abusive behavior is "for the child's own good", of course it isn't.
It's either tough or it's love, it's never both.( "Trendy" ideologies that people have used to ruin other people's lives.) - Is almost the definition of the evolution of oppressive cults in America. Even Scientology started off as being very popular psych-fad, it was called 'Dianetics: the Modern Science of Mental Health'. Later it was referred to as Book One auditing. Nowadays, we have Tom Cruise & David Miscavage (leader of the current CoS). There was primal Scream, est, Transactional Analysis, Gestalt Therapy and on and on ad- museum.
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artwise_one
Intermediate Member
Username: artwise_one
Post Number: 227
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 63.249.98.168
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 4:07 pm: |
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...on and on ad nauseum. is of course what I meant-
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nolurkingonme
Junior Member
Username: nolurkingonme
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.85.147.239
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 9:39 pm: |
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o.k. artwise_one you sort of connected with what i am meaning.
well i don't know for certain if tough love, idea started with synanon. can you explain synanon to me better?
i'm here to learn from you folks who have gone through so much.
you are writing about the same ideology that i am only i don't see it starting 'with' an a.a. program. i believe it started with a parenting type program, but of course i might be wrong.
the first i heard or read of it was in the middle 1980's. gosh it ran like a wild river through everything, and everyone.
people who were addicted started applying it to me; i am not addicted. well, o.k. maybe i spent too much money on my equestrian stuff, but i mean a deliterious type addiction. the worst that happened to me is bad insteps, and different type muscle development.
but, that isn't what they were complaining about. they were making up garbage; like saying i "probably was a juvenile delinquent". i mean that is so ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. i was one of the best teenagers any parents could have. i even made mortgage payments, and car payments for my mom, and i ALWAYS FILLED UP HER TANK. never did i leave our family car that it didn't have a topped off tank.
perhaps they were doing it as a self defense mechanism, but it was still painful, and EXTREMELY SOCIALLY DETRIMENTAL. imagine going to school, and working an 8 hr. job as a teen, and having people accuse you as an adult of having been delinquent?
it seems that one of the most difficult social aspects of the a.a. program is the constant social gossiping. it turns full grown men into the type of shut in older spinster women that is sometimes characterized in Faulkner stories which were set in agrarian south. they set around, and "imagine" amateur psychological scenarios to protect their own ego image. it's weirder than weird imo.
it is funny, but weird to hear very hardened drug, and alcoholic addicted men gossiping for hour after hour. i know they do it to release their anxiety, but they can also do a heck of a lot of social damage to those who "don't have a venue to respond".
maybe "non-addicts" could start a program called "recovering from gossip perpetrated by alcoholics anonymous",and "alanon", etc...
it's an idea that just gained infancy in my head, but i don't think it is an emotionally empty idea. at least when drunks are sitting at a bar gossiping no one takes them seriously. but, it seems that when alcoholics get sobriety they sometimes take on social auras of sudden "knowingness", and new found respectability which is really still hog wash. they are full of the same anxieties, and just projecting it at sober people instead of getting drunk.
well, maybe i'm not entirely right about that; but it seems to have happened with people who got sober in my immediate environment. wow, did they start shoveling out maliciousness!!! |
artwise_one
Intermediate Member
Username: artwise_one
Post Number: 236
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 63.249.100.107
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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"Maybe "non-addicts" could start a program called "recovering from gossip perpetrated by alcoholics anonymous",and "alanon", etc...
It's an idea that just gained infancy in my head, but i don't think it is an emotionally empty idea."
Not a bad idea at all. A book that I could recommend that runs down this line of thinking is: The Real 13th Step - discovering confidence, self-reliance + autonomy beyond the 12 steps By Tina Tessina, PHD.
It's not my favorite of the kind, a bit loaded with psych-speak, however it does have good ideas, Some notions, that I've advised people considering leaving the aa cult is to tell no-one of your intention. If you were planning a jail break, you certainly wouldn't announce it, same thing here.
I admitt that I'm not entirely sure where the heck 'tough-love' started, but I'm sure that if it was mean and oppressive enough, Synanon would gladly steal it and make it meaner.
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artwise_one
Intermediate Member
Username: artwise_one
Post Number: 237
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 63.249.99.181
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 6:56 pm: |
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1. Never went through Synanon, by the time I had heard some of the legendary stories, the leader had committed suicide, or died from something else.
"it seems that one of the most difficult social aspects of the a.a. program is the constant social gossiping. it turns full grown men into the type of shut in older spinster women that is sometimes characterized in Faulkner stories which were set in agrarian south. they set around, and "imagine" amateur psychological scenarios to protect their own ego image. it's weirder than weird imo."
This is due to a direct influence of the personality of one Frank Buchman, form the Oxford group. This is a good conversation for an AA thread.
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nolurkingonme
Junior Member
Username: nolurkingonme
Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.85.147.95
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 7:21 pm: |
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...well, i'm more informed. i will try find the reference book 13th Step, and peruse it.
your "jail break" comment made me laugh out loud.
i read some of the stuff that teenagers wrote about the "tough love" type camps their parents are sending them to.
for kids i think parents can do all that at home without giving them over to strangers. they did the original damage so why should't they be personally responsible for undoing it themselves if they can? ,,,,i just thought about that a minute, and realized it is probably because the parent is messed up, and can't straighten their own thinking out. so, first the parent would need 10-20 years of therapy, and then the kid would be grown, and it would be too late.
all of these 'trendy' ideologies seem to have gone completely out of perspective. |
nolurkingonme
Junior Member
Username: nolurkingonme
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 69.85.147.95
| | Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 7:24 pm: |
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...well, i'm more informed. i will try find the reference book 13th Step, and peruse it.
your "jail break" comment made me laugh out loud.
i read some of the stuff that teenagers wrote about the "tough love" type camps their parents are sending them to.
for kids i think parents can do all that at home without giving them over to strangers. they did the original damage so why should't they be personally responsible for undoing it themselves if they can? ,,,,i just thought about that a minute, and realized it is probably because the parent is messed up, and can't straighten their own thinking out. so, first the parent would need 10-20 years of therapy, and then the kid would be grown, and it would be too late.
all of these 'trendy' ideologies seem to have gone completely out of perspective. |
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