| Author | Message | ||
     xlcr4life (xlcr4life) Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 76 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Ah, housing and Larouche, a real winning combination. A track record like every other prediction of economic collapse. In the 1970's we would warn people of a Rockefeller take over and tell people to sell their houses and give the money to the US Labor Party before everything collapses. In the 1980's we had numerous supporters take out home equity loans @ 15 % to sign over to us for a 19 % promisorry note from us. You can guess how much of that we paid back. We took some of that loot and then bought up real estate in the then unknown Leesburg VA to build an office complex for us. We had a company set up for supporters/investors to put money into. This idea actually came from a few of our supporters who thought that we were rationale and could leverage our cash flow into owning rather than renting in NYC. Lyn had a penthouse apt on W58th next to the office. That was not good enough and we then rented a million dollar townhouse on Sutton Place in Manahttan for him. Lyn wound up with a huge spread we co bought with a supporter and we had another 1000 acres to be added to our holdings. As I said, the supporters thought that we knew something about economics. The loans were not repaid and we lost the properties. The supporters lost their money and property. Helga is so real estate savvy that we had money from the card table shrines going to build a swimming pool and horse stable on property we RENTED. Today you can shop at a mall on land we once owned. I think "Mr. NC" himself, LW can explain what happened. Phony baloney security scam artists ended up with a farm we bought him to "warn Lyn of assasination plots and place him on a Do Not Assasinate list of the NSA". I kid you not. Helga did end up with a castle in Germany I was told. Steve raises the money to heat it while he freezes and sleeps with 3 other LYM in a studio. Phil and other NC's would hold back rent on people who were "problems". Quite a few people were evicted like bums by Phil I was told. While LYM think they are learning math, one of the ex members Phil had thrown out into the street is now a professor of math at a prestigious institution and is a Fulbright scholar. He and his wife have children and OWN their home while Phil still waits for the collapse like a cargo cult. xlcr4life@hotmail.com (Message edited by xlcr4life on February 19, 2006) | ||
| xlcr4life (xlcr4life) Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 77 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
The West 58th st penthouse was fabulous. It had a view of Central Park, parking for the Pontiac Bonneviles and Lyn could grace the office by walking a few hundred feet. it was pretty easy to move money around by always declaring a security problem .Between Lyn's paranoia and the security scammers who worked circles around Goldstein and Steinberg, the money would be vacuamed away from member rents, stipends and mundane things like postage to mail out our lit. We then could declare a new Lyn assasination mobe, hustle more money via the regions and keep the party going. Basically the card table shrines sold a sub and we would barely mail it out. We would blame this on the ADL and the Post Office when the real reason was that the world's greatest economist hijacked the budget on a whim when needed. Security was a plum job, or so people thought. It tok a while for some to figure out that you were a butler or waitress with a pistol permit. If you go to dennisking.org, look up the section on "Computron" and see how we could siphon money away for Lyn via the high rise condo in Riverdale we had for him. The Sutton Pl. townhouse was magnificent, right off E58th st. We also put Lyn up in a suite at a luxury Park Ave hotel for "security Reasons". Members got 5 bucks a day while we blew hundreds per day on cases of Rheingau. The fun looked like it would never end until the IRS asked where the money came from to live like a millionaire who used the Concorde like a superstar jet setter. Lyn, with a straight face in the trials would state that he had absolutlely no idea where this mystery of wealth came from. His next home became a prison cell in a Fed lock up. | ||
| xlcr4life (xlcr4life) Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
After we lost all of the land, some members married supporters and bought houses. Other higher ranked members picked up money when their parents died and hid it to buy houses in Leesburg. That did not last for long as once the org slipped a few more notches into its cult basement those members were called on the rug so to speak. With housing valuse rising, we now hit the home owning members to borrow more on credit cards and to maximise their home equity loans. A few like Lyn's long time security honcho Paul Goldstein left and kept their house. The rest of the home owning deadenders who found that the world economy did not collapse for the 35th year took part time jobs as the org certainly was not going to pay them. It is a lot of fun driving through Leesburg and seeing how the org is pretty good at collapsing itself and its members faster than the IMF and WorldBank could. Yes Sancho, some like Elliot and Margaret Greenspan were pretty nice people. Elliot has been in this circus since he attended Rutgers in the early 1970's and dropped out. While Elliot is STILL on the phones rasing money, many of his fellow LCers from New Brunswick are living a a great and productive life. -One ex member is a PHD economist who writes legislation and has testified many times on the Hill in DC for a few President's commissions. -Another guy Elliot knows is an award winning media producer. -Another has a Masters and has books published on Poetry, writing and has won awards for his/her writing. -Another person from Elliot's local became a very well respected and influential teacher/administrator who now can retire on a full pension while Elliot and Margaret hit the phones every day. | ||
| xlcr4life (xlcr4life) Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 79 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Margaret was a very good pianist whose piano became a liability when the rent was not paid and she and Elliot had to vacate their apts to find new places to live for the last 25 years or so. Her brother has been in prison for Lyn and I think she had another brother in Cleveland in the org. They were real nice people and you have to look at this as a tragedy. Elliot probably had visons of leading the world to take power with the NCLC and the US Labor Party. Margaret wanted to fully explore her musical gifts. They are both gray haired, way past child bearing years, renters and still waiting for the world economy to collapse. Elliot has been through quite a bit of tragedy on his family. Without trying to bring up a painfull episode, it was obscene to to hear about the tragedies in the Greenspans family life and read what the org was writing about and placing on card table shrines signs. For many of us, we saw how the org could go deeper into its lunacy. Elliot has a family member who shows up every time on FEC lists. That one is also something which raises questions. I always wished that he would have left and fullfilled his potential as his fellow New Brunswick alumni. You could populate a small NJ town with the contacts Elliot had who liked him and were screwed by the org. 35 years later, your life is still based on getting up 7 days a week , hitting the phones and getting yelled at for not hitting quota. The one day he may get off is spent trying to rebuild your energy for the next barrage of calls proclaiming the latest crisis. I do hope they take care of their health as this lifestyle ages you real fast. Margaret once had a beautiful head of red hair I saw at the Reston conference xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho (sancho) Member Username: sancho Post Number: 97 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.42 |
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/book_reviews/3307devils_game.html Here Jeffrey Steinberg gives a generally positive review of ex-LaRouchite Robert Dreyfuss' latest book. This to me shows that there is some hope that once the Crazy Uncle (LaRouche) dies - and his empty-headed hangers-on are routed by the more rational members - it might be possible for a group of members to shed all the zaniness, cultism, and wooly "thinking" of LaRouche to isolate the best of Labor Committee policy and thinking and fight for it and to use its intelligence networks to serve as a gadfly on the butt of this disintegrating republic. I hope too that this is not a mere dream, because what the LC purports to be and manifestly is not at present is necessary in an increasingly fascist culture. | ||
| xylm (xylm) Member Username: xylm Post Number: 56 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.105.158.214 |
Sancho, I respectfully disagree and if I am wrong, I hope you or somebody can enlighten me for otherwise I don’t see the connection. Since the youth have been bred on make-believe or conspiratorial history they have nothing to offer historically and since their vernacular and thought process is both a complete simulation of a mad man’s and that of a system to generate money, what do they really have to offer? Additionally, their intuition (for the amount of years employed in the movement) has been stripped from them. If they have or had used any, they would have ironically made their first discovery –that Larouche is not the “one and only person who can save us from our impending doom”. In conclusion, their mal conditioning will probably supersede their discipline or at least to the point where one would be better off recruiting new members for such a movement. If habituation itself was something that could be easily brushed away I may then agree with you. But as it stands, I can literally show the Larouche members a picture of Larouche wearing a Nazi uniform and they would still show up to the card table shrine the next morning. | ||
| sancho (sancho) Member Username: sancho Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.42 |
Very true, xylm, the people I imagine existing would be few in number and among the so-called deadenders in the movement in whom I still maintain hope. These YLMers are useless, unthinking, Visigothic battering rams. The "deadenders" I speak of had roots in real-world socialist history, not in the surreal video-game recruiting environment of these know-nothing punks like Grendon. But, again, I'm probably dreaming.  | ||
| joesixpack (joesixpack) New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
hi - i'm a subscriber to EIR, and i find the work of larouche and his organization interesting and thought provoking...nevertheless, i cannot resist posting this gem from today's webcast: ( larouche, behind a podium,addressing an audience of supporters,said: " Don't go around hunting for nazis - you've got a real live one in front of you! " ( referring, i think, to Alito, but...) | ||
| sancho (sancho) Member Username: sancho Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.41 |
hahaha ... good one, Joe. There is a lot of interesting stuff in EIR - even former CIA chief Casey used to read it weekly - but that was when EIR had a much larger intelligence staff. Just beware the cult/money-grubbing/crypto-Nazi angle, as you apparently already do. | ||
| joesixpack (joesixpack) New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
thanks sancho...i've been familiar with larouche and his organization for a little over 20 years now, though i've only been subscribing to EIR for about a few months now...surprisingly, larouche's feature articles are generally the weakest link...it is infuriating how long he takes to say so little...when i mentioned this to a member of the org recently, he said, " oh, so you prefer euclid to gauss, eh?", and walked away, shaking his head...your words of caution put me in mind of my first visit to the organization's offices...there was a meeting where the week's events were reviewed through the prism of larouche - turns out the dalai lama was a british agent - and this was followed by an informal discussion with coffee and cakes being served...a very beautiful young woman approached me, and asked if i was familiar with larouche, and before i could answer, she said that i'd probably heard terrible things about him, that he was a racist, a fascist...i interrupted her to say that i did, indeed, think he was a fascist...all conversation in the room stopped..." but it doesn't make him a bad person ", i added, looking around ...she told me that i'd probably gotten that idea from the dope lobby, whereupon i informed her that i'd been subscribing to the newspapers for years, and had gotten that idea from mr. larouche's own writings, particularly one where he said that democracy in america didn't work because the majority of people were stupid, as evidenced by the popularity of shows such as dallas...her husband quickly arrived at her side, before i had the chance to kidnap her, and take her to my apartment to deprogram her... that's what i call it...anyway, when i left the meeting that night, and walked to my car, i was followed by a slow moving car with its headlights off...when i ran to my car and turned the my headlights on to get a look at who was following me, it sped off...i wondered about that for awhile, but not for long... | ||
| joesixpack (joesixpack) New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
anyway, i have long agreed with larouche in his emphasis on the importance of the maintenance of infrastructure for the health of a national economy and the general welfare of the citizens...i have always felt that he was a socialist of sorts, in that his solutions involve big government...but at least he can identify the problems...often way before conventional politicians - i would point you to senator clinton's recent call for a summit on the automobile industry, coming as it did after months of larouche warnings and proposals for just such a summit, as one example...and i, too, found steinberg's favorable review of the dreyfus book to be a hopeful sign...i am somewhat disappointed by xlcr's revelations, but not really very surprised, and i do not regard mr. larouche as a total charlatan...if you respond to this post, sancho, please tell me something about your involvment with, or knowledge of, the organization...and, for those interested, here is a link to today's webcast by larouche...at 84, he's still a compelling speaker... http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/audio_video_files/2006/060223_webcast.html ...you can find the quote i referred to at about 1 hour and 46 minutes in... | ||
| sancho (sancho) Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.41 |
Hi, Joe. You can go back and read past posts to get an idea of where I've been with this organization. The salient point is that when I left, I agreed with just about everything the organization proposed for my belief, although in my heart I did not go for much of the conspiracy stuff. I had to leave because of the organization's inhuman treatment of me and others, behavior I could no longer tolerate and which no amount of rationalization would permit me to tolerate any further. For a long time thereafter I viewed myself as someone who had let humanity down - until I began to acquire degrees in subjects at which LaRouche claims to be the "world's greatest." I discovered the following: in economics, he is a charlatan; in mathematics, he is a charlatan; in discussing Leibniz, he is a charlatan. This is not to say that he does not make true statements (e.g., regarding infrastructure), but as we know a stopped clock still tells the correct time twice a day. Louis Farrakhan speaks well also, as did Hitler. But a seasoned if not mature human being must ask himself honestly whether someone who claims to have all the answers in all areas of life and to be the world's greatest at anything without having the self-control to complete even a bachelor's degree is in possession of all his marbles. | ||
| jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe) New member Username: jamesstjohnsmythe Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 24.22.84.204 |
Joe: I here also agree with LaRouche on infrastructure and most of his socialist ideas. But other than that, he's a insecure quack job with too much time on his hands. Sancho & xlym: I have to disagree. There were some youth who are down to earth and still were into the same music (a big no-no in the cult) before they joined. Just because most LYM fall for the lie "LHL knows best!" doesn't mean theres a few who are not too sure. Most likely their reason for leaving the cult and probably others. The unsure lyms or the few would look into it more if the leaders and rest of the members weren't acting like Gestapos. There are always going to be a few who will question. Take for example the GOP, most of them accepts Bush's rhetoric like lemmings while there will be a few who will question. The GOP labels the few "Terrorist" while LHL and his grade school kids the LYM label the few "Sophists". Tho in a LaRouche world, Sophists are "terrorists" instead of al-Qaeda, ALF, and ELF. xlcr4life: If memory serves, you mention LHL's cult went with the conservists and supported Reagan in the 80's. Hows that possible when LHL was running as a Democrat since 1980 and make claims they're againest Reaganomics? James St. John Smythe | ||
| borisbad (borisbad) Junior Member Username: borisbad Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.239.162.9 |
LaRouche's pitch was supposedly to "Reagan democrats" who were purportedly liberal on economics and conservative socially- ala the so-called war on drugs, the war on AIDs which involved mostly attacks on people like Rock Hudson and Liberace. The attacks on Reaganomics was against supply siders like David Stockman as well as monetarists like Milton Friedman because LHL believed that somehow Reagan would support a "dirigist" approach by supporting the SDI and this would "free" him from the supply siders. But I remember how conveniently the change came from supporting the so-called Labor Party to going after Reagan conservatives as well as readers of Spotlight, the Hunt Brothers and other well-heeled right wingers and conspiracy fanatics. | ||
| xlcr4life (xlcr4life) Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Mr. Smythe, My work load had kept me from addressing your questions. Give me a few days and I will show you how the org works in getting members to flip on a dime (or dollar) when needed. If you review this section you will see some of your questions answered. The first thing to understand is to not think of this org as a legitimate group of people who have things to do. It will seem that way to the card table shriners and the fundraisers, but the main purpose of the org is to feed Lyn's ego and paranoia. It took me a long time to figure out that having a room of sycophants and an offshore bank account means more than a room of supporters who get things done. If you were to review the org's many faces, you will find that we have less supporters, less sunscribers and less members than when we started. What Lyn has achieved is his ultimate dream which is a self worshiping group of youngsters. Each phase of our chameleonesque faces brought some new blood to replace the old, tired out spent blood. It is the same today and the stories are the same as when I came in, and when I left. What usually happens is that the members will be doing some project which will have a name, but, will always revolve around Lyn. When the time come, Lyn will issue a long document which the NC's will then ahh and ohh over like school girls. A new policy is announced based on some new break through of Lyn and then you are off in a new direction. Most members will go on. The few who question are then denounced as the reason why Lyn is not president. Those who stick around are too busy to read what we actually are producing. The ones who really read stuff like our Nazi rocket scientist fan club leave. | ||
| xlcr4life (xlcr4life) Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
There is no shortage on an org built on mental manipulation to denounce your shortcomings. For thirty years it has been like this. If you read the briefings you will see how the LYM is now being called on the carpet to raise the bucks, rather than just spend the bucks. The essence of this is that Lyn will always first proclaim that only he understands some topic like Marxism. Then, he shows how he made a breakthrough at 3 AM and solved the fundamental problem. Then, he will announce that the org is moving forward and surpassing that. Now the members think that they are the only people who understand Marxism in the early 1970's. In the Mid 1970's we pretty much burnt through Marxism and needed cleaner faces at the airport card table shrines. Lyn now attacks marxism and proclaims that the American System is number 1. The NEC starts writing papers and we are now burning our Marx books and buying American history books. Lyn ran in 1976 as the US Labor Party candidate for president. We ran against Jimmy Carter basically in that election. We figured out that third parties may not work and find out that we can raise a boat load of money selling Khomeni gun targets and anti Kennedy and anti Jane Fonda bumper stickers. Conservatives, who hated us for being Marxists now like us for attacking Carter as a Trilat/CFR agent. We open up new front groups with nuclear power via FEF (Fusion Energy Foundation) and anti drug work via the National Anti Drug Coalition. Marx who? is our battle cry as we now start raising money and Lyn has an org under his control as the old timers from the early 1970 colleges are now out and those who are left are pretty much beaten down by Lyn via his Beyond Psych sessions with them. An 18 year old facing serious work in college will both look for an easy way to understand the world, and, a way to get away from his or her immediate problems. Grad students laugh at Lyn and the writings. A fresh 18 year old who wants to change the world isn't a critical thinker yet. Lyn has always stated that he needs 18 to 25 year olds who have not yet decided on life to be the guts of his org. So far, I can count at least 5 sets of youths who thought that they were going to save humanaity, stop nuclear war and see the complete economic collapse. More later. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| realme New member Username: realme Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 4.249.51.205 |
Wow! Just came across this yesterday. What a sad bunch of bitterness. I admit I haven't read the whole string--maybe 10% at most, so maybe everything I'm going to say has already been said. Stop being "ex-members!" I was an "ex-member" for 10 years until I started being just me. It's been over 20 years now since I quit the org, and I only just realized that I spent the first 10 years being an "ex-member." When you're an ex-member, you're still letting the org live rent-free in your brain. Evict the buggers! It's like once you were in a high school with really bad cliques. It screwed you up for a long time. Then finally you got over it, without even realizing it, because you just started to live. My high school analogy breaks down: who the hell would want to go to a reunion? And forget the bitterness. It'll eat you up. I was a member once because I liked it, and then one day I didn't like it anymore so I quit. Take responsibility for your actions (I know--I sound like a republican). No one can be manipulated unless they want to be manipulated. Good luck to everyone--members and ex-members alike. But special good luck to ex-ex-members. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Realme, I can assure you that many of us left everything behind when we too left the org. For the most part, everyone reclaimed their lives and proceeded on to a better life. It really was not until the recent era of web based communication that people have shared what they saw or went through. Some people have no inclination to remind themselves of this part of their lives. That is fully understandable as people have kids and other things far more important. The recent spike in members who have contributed here and in other places is based on what happened to a young college kid named Jeremiah Duggan a few years ago in Germany. If you were around 20 years ago, then you have an understanding on how the org works. If you were around before that, then you can think back to the Chris White Brainwashing, mop-up , the money chicanery and other subjects. Up until Jeremiah Duggan's death, you hardly saw and info since many years have passed since Lyn shared his jail cell with Will Wertz. The org has decided to rewrite history to its yutes who were born when we were doing credit card shenanigans and issuing Larouche promisorry notes before the world economy collapses. The correction of history and info is more for the benefit of incoming youth who deserve to know what they are getting involved with. Finally, many of saw first hand the damage done to people and how callous the org really is in real world life. Quite a few have reacted in shock when they examined the anti semitic drippings of the org over time. The wealth of knowledge here has been put to very good use by people around the globe who use the web to find out about Larouche. Think of this as a public service. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Hi, realme. Your point is well taken - as far as it goes. I have found venting here very therapeutic because for a long time I silently carried around the guilt and shame first of no longer being a soldier for humanity as it were and then, as I matured, of having been in such a crazy cult and followed such a madman as Lyndon LaRouche. (The very name suggests the oddity within.) The anonymity here affords me the opportunity to seize power back from my former would-be brainwashers through truth, humor, and sarcasm. None of this however makes me a professional "ex-member": outside of this bulletin board I give as much attention to the ravings and carryings on of LaLush and his minions as I do to the weekly police blotter in a village circular. The most important part of this process you ignore entirely: we who post here truthfully about what occurs daily in the LaRouche organization and related front groups serve as a warning to young people who may be momentarily lured in by all the smoke and mirrors which are designed to manipulate politicised, idealistic youth with some social or emotional problems into an idol-worshipping, shady money-making racket. LaRouche will die very soon anyway - but why allow even one soul to squander a few of the most precious years of his or her life helping to prop up this wicked cult leader. Have a good day. www.justiceforjeremiah.com | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 102 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
And lest one think LHL, Jr. sane, check out this recent nugget: Q: In one of your previous interviews, you mentioned that London is behind the idea of a possible strike on Iran. What is the basis of your argument? LaRouche: Well, first of all, the policy is a British policy, which certain people in the United States are connected to. For example, take the case of Dick Cheney, the Vice President. The Vice President is very close to Liz Symons, to whom he was introduced by his own wife, Lynne Cheney. And during the period, for example, between the time he was head of the Defense Department, under George Bush the First, and the time that he became the Vice President—and the acting president, practically—he negotiated certain contracts. So, the Liberal Imperialist crowd in London, which is the Blair-Jack Straw crowd, is actually the architect of this. But the architecture runs largely through international financial channels, such as George Shultz, who is a former Secretary of State, and who is the architect of the present Bush Administration: That is, the person who pulled it together to be elected. So, this is the key point from which this comes. It's an Anglo-American operation, but the policy itself, which is the British policy of the Arab Bureau, the so-called "anti-Islam policy," is what the motivation is. * This is your brain. This is your brain on LaRouche. | ||
| kheris Member Username: kheris Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.165.212.12 |
That is just too much for me Sancho, I nearly spewed my drink over my keyboard. I am sorry, but I have to laugh at the idiocy! It's absolutely priceless! What world does that man live on?! | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Thanks, Kheris, but it's sad to think how much time it took to get to the point where one could see clearly that this guy was not only not a genius, but just a garden-variety crackpot of a type with which mental hospitals are replete. So I hope what we post here will scare kids (and others) away from squandering one second of their precious lives on this drivel. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
People sacrifice for small businesses and for various things which are important to them. What makes the org more perverse is how the things which you wish for which are good, will be hijacked by the cult's paranoia of the month offering. There was a show on the Science Channel on Mars which featured former member Bob Zubrin, now a PHD and advocate of space travel. The yutes may think they support this, but instead, have inherited Lyn and Helga's fascination with resurecting Nazi scientists and war criminals from the dead. So what a member thinks he or she is supporting is usually not what their efforts are actually supporting. Zubrin does real research for real scientists for real legislation and action. The yutes will be carting around a 20 year old VHS tape of Mars and telling you that "Nothing will happen without Larouche leading the trip to Mars". Today's crop of recruits may think that they are supporting an end to Iraq conflict. What they usually will not find out until it is too late is how much of lyn's lunacy about the Jews and 9/11 is spread in the Mid East by fellow anti semitic thinkers. Lyn's founding European member Webster Tarpley spreads a version of this lunacy through people have had a bad taste of Lyn from years ago. The yutes are not working for a Dem Pac, but doing PR for scary groups in the Mid East. We did the same thing decades ago for the South Africans and other Tin Pot dictators who we thought would support us. A lot of the money we recieved and meetings we did were not known by members at the time. In Leesburg, all of the dead enders who still hung around have been hung out to dry so to speak by Lyn. They cost too much and this travelling circus of LYM is cheaper. The joke of this is that those who hung around with Lyn waiting for the economic collapse, have now collapsed economically. Lym does not show up here because it works against them when college kids start doing searches on Larouche and find their axiomatic challenged lives here. The LYM yahoo group is now just date spam for losers postings. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
This is from the Boston Globe. later, we will review some thing about this which is very troubling. Here is the URL so you can see the picture. It is here in two parts. xlcr4life@hotmail.com http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/04/14/colleges_consider_stressing_danger_of_pressure_groups/ Colleges consider stressing danger of pressure groups By Cristina Silva, Globe Staff | April 14, 2006 Dressed in sneakers and jeans, they hang out along the edges of campuses, handing out fliers and calling out to passing college students. Each group, students say, has a different, seemingly harmless opening line: ''Are you saved? Are you antiwar? Are you stressed out?" But some college officials say they view most of these groups as high-pressure organizations akin to cults. The groups have a history of recruiting vulnerable students and then alienating them from their parents and classmates. They say that the groups, many of which were banned from schools more than a decade ago, resurfaced on campuses this year. After years of doing little to educate students on the groups, some colleges are reconsidering whether they should do more to teach students about the dangers of cults. ''We want to keep our eyes and ears open to see if anyone is getting caught up in it," said Northeastern University's residence director, Seth Avakian. He submitted an editorial to the student newspaper in March on how to identify cults after several high-pressure groups appeared on campus last fall. The Boston Church of Christ, which was founded in Lexington in 1979, and the LaRouche Youth Movement, a political group founded by former presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche, are the two groups appearing most often on local campuses, officials said. The groups are considered high-pressure organizations because they have been accused of using strong-arm tactics to recruit and keep members. The church has raised concerns, its critics say, by telling students their parents are the devil and by assigning mentors, who tell students which classes to take so they don't miss the frequent church gatherings. The LaRouche group, its critics say, encourages members to drop out of school and spend their time recruiting new members. Cult awareness specialists says the group also threatens members who try to leave the group. Leaders of both organizations have said they are not cults. The church describes itself on its website as ''a family of nearly three thousand people in the Greater Boston area who are committed to following Jesus." Several calls placed to the church by the Globe were not returned. Barbara Boyd -- treasurer of the Lyndon LaRouche Political Action Committee and a spokeswoman for the LaRouche Youth Movement, founded in 2000 -- called accusations against the group gossip. Members, who are sometimes called LaRouchies, are a part of a ''youth movement in the Democratic Party," fighting ''for ideas and real policies," Boyd wrote in an e-mail. Students say that recruiters, who are often college-age, can seem innocuous, but are persistent. Joshua Peters, a senior at Suffolk University, said he has been approached by a group he described as a yoga healing center that asked him to donate as much as $4,000 for the right to live on the group's commune in California and practice yoga. He could not remember the group's name. ''They will tell people, 'You need to be healed and fixed,' " he said. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 83 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Part two of the Boston Globe article. Comments later about the card table shrine's latest victim. *********************************************** Chris Lee, 33, of Cambridge, executive director of REVEAL, a nonprofit group for former Boston Church of Christ members that tries to help people quit the organization, said a friend invited him to join the church when he was a sophomore at MIT in 1991. He was asked to leave the group when he was a senior after he questioned the group's leadership, he said. ''At first, it doesn't seem like you are getting involved with anything unusual," said Lee. ''They don't look expressionless or mindless." Administrators say they want to provide students with enough information to make an educated decision for themselves. At Worcester State College, school officials decided to set up a cult information web page after Boston Church of Christ members showed up on campus in September 2004, hosting Bible studies at the student center and talking to students about salvation. The group showed up again this fall and was repeatedly asked to leave campus before it stopped holding meetings, said Sibyl Brownlee, dean of student development. By then the church had recruited at least seven students, she said. At Boston University, several groups showed up in the fall, but those from the LaRouche Movement are the most active, said Ray Bouchard, director of the Office of the University Chaplain. They show up every week, he said. ''They say, 'Hey, we all hate Dick Cheney, don't we?' " he said. ''It's how they engage the students." University officials have discussed updating their cult information guides since the groups reappeared, but so far the school is distributing literature published more than five years ago, Bouchard said. Cult activity garnered statewide attention after dozens of universities began banning the Boston Church of Christ in the 1990s and forbade proselytizing on campus. The groups seemed to have a resurgence around 2001 and then faded for different reasons, said Steven A. Hassan, director of the Freedom of Mind Center in Cambridge, which offers counseling to former cult members. Hassan is a former member of the Unification Church, also known as the Moon cult, which had recruiters on BU's campus last fall. The Boston Church of Christ lost some steam after its founder, Thomas McKean, stepped down in 2002, Hassan said. The church has since regrouped and become active again, he said. Other groups, such as the LaRouche movement, have grown along with the unpopularity of President Bush's policies, because the organizations go after liberal college students, Hassan said. But while these groups have grown more widespread in the past years, colleges have not increased their cult-awareness education, Hassan said. ''The schools want to ignore it," he said. ''But they need to tell the students: 'Hey, here is a whole list of questions you should ask. You should ask who the name of their leader is, what their mission is.' " Still, some university officials say they're not too worried about the groups. Rabbi Al S. Axelrad, chairman of the Center for Spiritual Life at Emerson College, said students are too sophisticated to join the LaRouche Movement, which recently set up an information table near dorms on Boylston Street. ''It's always a lurking kind of danger, I admit that," he said. ''But mostly our students have enough on the ball to know to reject it." | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 105 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
''But mostly our students have enough on the ball to know to reject it." That's very true, but it is not those that the LaRouche cult seeks to attract - rather those who don't have much on the ball emotionally or socially. Those are the targets, the usually intellectually gifted misfits, which the LaRouche cult machine chews up and spits out. These misfits are the people who should be identified (not difficult to do) in their freshman year by peer advisors and others and given special counseling on the dangers of cults like that of LaRouche. I know. I was one such misfit with very little on the ball in terms of emotional or social maturity and had no idea what I was getting myself into - until it was too late. | ||
| realme New member Username: realme Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 4.249.201.48 |
I first posted here about a month ago and since then I’ve been trying to read this whole long train of postings. I’m only up to June 2005—got family to pay attention to and a career to work at—novel concepts for LCers. My wife says it’s unhealthy to spend too much time here—better to let the old crap go. Maybe she’s right. Some of the ex-members here still sound like members—all too ready to pontificate about one thing or another. One poster a few years ago even made a crack about ex-members who turned into greenies. Hey, we’re not in the org anymore—we’re all free to form our own beliefs and opinions, and we can even respect other people’s opinions. Screw the morning briefing. I was saddened to read about Jenny, the former music teacher and daughter of two LCers now chained to a life of card tablery herself. I knew her parents, and they never seemed like hard-core members; they always seemed to have money and some kind of job going on the side. But the comment about LC kids owing their existence to LHL being in prison—sorry—doesn’t hold water. Jenny and her age cohorts were born c. 1980, and the old jailbird wasn’t caged until the late 80s (1989 maybe?). In fact, lots of members had kids in the 80s. Well, not everyone—far from it. And some of the folks who had kids were marginal members. But VR and TR had two kids, and they have to be two of the tightest of the tight-••• members I ever met. Once, maybe 10 or 15 years ago, my wife asked VR her opinion of some item in the news, and VR began, “Well, Lyn says …” Ah yes! Must be nice not to have take the time or the trouble to form your own opinions. (You know the org has always supported a woman's right to choose--that woman's name is Nancy Spannaus.) But the saddest thing of all, at least for me, is to read about Mike Billington’s shenanigans. Gail waited for the ••••••• how many years?--nine or ten?--while the scam artist was in prison. She waited while her childbearing years ran out. She once told me her fantasies about having a daughter. And now Mike goes and diddles the young recruits, shows them his higher hypothesis and nests his manifold. And Gail’s supposed to be too fat? She was always skinny as a rail when I knew her. One of the younger people here posted something about Ted in LA. Would that be Ted with the Greek last name? I bet it is. He was the bane of my existence decades ago, and now it seems he has a whole new crop to torment. And yet I have a soft spot in my heart for him. I’m totally hardhearted towards the National Office apparatchiks, but the regional folk—they made plenty members suffer but they suffered too. Ted’s wife DA used to talk on and on about how she and all the other women in the org would have babies nine months after the revolution. Still waiting I guess; those babies’ little unborn souls up in heaven with Lyn’s unborn revolution. Forgive me while I ramble on and on. Maybe someone will figure out who I am. I’ve racked my brains trying to guess who some of the anonymi are—I have a few guesses but I’m none too sure (if I were an LCer that wouldn’t be a problem—Lcers are never unsure about anything). More to come ... | ||
| realme New member Username: realme Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 4.249.201.48 |
Part 2 After I quit (more than 20 years ago) I hung around for a few years as a “supporter.” I did a little translating from German for the org, mostly scientific stuff but once I tried my hand at poetry, Schiller of course, even though I found him a pompous poet, perfectly suited to Wertz’s “beauteous” translations. Anyway, Schiller was a fierce partisan for the Protestant side, rather inconvenient for the org in its Catholic phase. I came across a line castigating the “Vatikan” and I foolishly translated that as against the Vatican. What would you expect from a blocked ex-member? By the time it saw print, it had been changed to “Jesuits.” A lot of folks here refer to the anti-semitic jokes of years back. The ashtray in the VW joke was particularly offensive. Then, just a few months ago, I heard a variation of that joke on NPR! An Iranian newspaper had started an anti-semitic joke contest as retaliation for the Muhammed cartoons, and an Israeli guy said, no way, Jews are the best at anti-Semitic jokes, so he started his own contest. And the Israeli guy read the damn ashtray joke on the air! I don’t know what to say about that one. To the parents of newly recruited members: Your kid is going to do what she or he is going to do, and if you nag them, you’ll make it worse. My wife and I probably stayed in a couple of years longer than we would have because her father was such a damn anti-LaRouche nag, and we hated to give him the satisfaction. We never told her parents when we quit; I guess they just figured it out after a few years. So, parents, tell your kid you disagree with them, but you recognize their right to live as they wish. Tell them you love them and you’ll always be there for them. Give them gifts of food or clothing when appropriate but never money, and take them out to a nice restaurant now and then if you can afford it and if they’ll let you. And prepare yourself to be verbally abused, but take it cheerfully. And take a deep breath and wait. A few questions for previous posters: Someone mentioned a spate of Leesburg funerals. Who died in the last few years? I saw Primack and Sonnenblick in the local papers, and I heard about Parsons and Burdman here. Who else? And do the Leesburgers really hit the bottle as much as you say? Not that I doubt it, but how can they afford it? My sick fantasy is running some sort of shelter for old members with nowhere else to go. My wife and I ran into Chris and Carol some years ago. Selling real estate. That's like a punch in the stomach. I never cared much for either of them, but to see two elderly, intelligent, educated people doing that to keep body and soul together--ahh. Well that’s enough for now. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 106 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
It's good to regurgitate the old crap for the young people being sucked in now for whom it is new crap. When they see that the new crap is just an iteration of the old crap, it helps them see that they are in a destructive cult. Also, what you say about parents and family is good advice: never nag their children as they feel they are doing the right thing for humanity, but all the while strive to maintain contact because that is what all cults cannot bear: the victims' continued links to family, friends, and the outside world - to reality. It is not a sick fantasy at all: had I money, I would definitely set up such a facility for the likes of Charles Hughes or Bob Wesser. Although well meaning, they are no less mentally ill after years in this cult than many others in State care. | ||
| borisbad Junior Member Username: borisbad Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.239.202.167 |
Interesting to mention Charles Hughes who was always like an unrepentant Stalinist, and Bob Wesser, who I think came in from high school. I had liked them although Charles always had a "workerist" mentality and would do anything Phil or Dennis told him to do. Not much critical thinking that I recall. As for funerals, I believe that Graham Lowry also died fairly recently. For people to wean themselves, it's hard to believe that people who've been in for 20 to 30 years and are now in advanced middle age would have an easy time reintegrating into society. It took me a few years to deprogram myself from some aspects of LaRouche speak and LaRouche thinking. And often I still have nightmares of being "asked to do a deployment" and getting roped back in, and I left almost twenty years ago. But fortunately, even when I was in the org. I kept my lifelines open, like working part time, etc. As to some of the ideas that still might seem attractive, or the so-called intelligence in the EIR, it's easy to find any intelligence on any subject these days on the world-wide web, including hundreds of other variations of conspiracy theories, ie. the WTC collapse was an inside job, there was no plane crashing into the Pentagon, etc. One doesn't need Steinberg or Tarpley to read about it. But supposedly, it was LHL's "unique ability" to integrate all the disparate aspects of human knowledge into one all-encompassing higher hypothesis. These days it's their line to attack Cheney and Rohatyn. Earlier it was Jimmy Carter, or Nelson and David Rockefeller, or Ted Kennedy. And of course for a long time it was Henry Kissinger. So it's hard to put much stock in the acumen of Steinberg's intelligence gathering these days or to hope that there might be some sanity once LaRouche goes. If anything they might make a more frantic and desparate drive to show how different they are from any other organization. And besides, I'm sure Helga would have ideas of keeping things going, especially in Europe. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 84 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Realme, you are definately right about parents not giving their kids money while in the Larouche cult. I can think of so many members who were told to call up their parents with some story to get cash. The cash quickly went to the org as the NC's were waiting like vultures for the mail to arrive. Many of these stories involved medical needs like dental or medical problems which a few hundred would cure. The tragedy is that many members neglected to see doctors and take care of their health which caught up to many later on in life. If you were around during the 1980 New Hampshire campaign you can think about the many members who were sick with pneumonia and were still sent out in the cold of the Mid West. People were so starved that a cheap steak dinner in a Chicago diner was seen as a reward for taking a few years of your life. The org was in a big wine kick, German of course. Cheap German wines for the members while I did the hootch runs for cases of $50 bottles of Rheingau for Lyn and Helga. A few drops for the minstrel show members. Depression and drinking are interlinked in studies of the problem and Leesburg is no different. If you just saw 30 years of your life vanish while slaving for Lyn and then read about how you did not work hard enough to put his carcas in the White House as Master of the Universe, you would hit the bottle too. The present day yutes are being charged up to replace the old and now abandoned elderly LCers. Here is a rough death roll call. Allen Salsibury died in the early 90's due to prostate cancer. Graham Lowry died a few years ago due to liver failure. Figure it out. Mike Gelber died in the early 90's driving a Larouche mobile on frozen roads in upstate NY. I think he fell asleep at the wheel. One of Nancy Spannous's son died in an auto accident in Leesburg a few years ago. A long time supporter worker/LCer named Charles Grande died of a beating death in his Rochester home in the 1990's. Maryanne Wertz died of complications from numerous health issues a few years ago. Hubby Will found a Lalc wife I heard. Steven Pepper died several years ago in a train crash in Italy. His former wife Marcia Merry was a few husbands past him. If you did translations, then you must remember Denise Henderson. She did Russian translations and was married to Fred. Denise was about 6 feet while Fred barely hit 5 feet in winter boots. She died after getting hit by a hit and run in DC while working at a legal job to support herself. Fred was not married to her at the time. He hooked up with a teacher from a conference. Primack had a heart attack. He had to fend for himself after getting out of prison. Dana Arnest, formally Dana Sloan, passed away in April of 2004 to cancer I think. Real tragedy as she left 3 kids behind. Parsons supposedly committed suicide. I think he was already broken up with Cynthia and was dating a local Leesburg girl. The story was that he was just drifting in simple jobs trying to fend for himself after devoting 3 decades to Larouche. There are more, but I can't think of them right now. There are also members who left years ago who passed away. Lyn lived a life of luxury, great health care and a jet setters life at their dime though. It will be tragic to see him outlive everyone who was with him from day one who paid his fare in life. The yutes get to pick up the tab for the final stretch. The yutes should also think about how they are not told about the many members who gave everything and were discarded like trash at the curb later in life. Leave school, devote your life and youth to bizarro world , and then die broke, childless alone, burnt out or some combination of this. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
One of the founding members in the early days was Leif and Susan Johnson. Real nice people who asked too many questions and were sent far away from the center. Susan unfortunately, passed away in the early 1990s I believe. Leif did end up leaving the org. They were among the kinder people you run in the org who you feel were cheated out of a lot that life has to offer. http://www.schillerinstitute.org/biographys/memorial/main.html Gelber was rewarded for his decades of service with a plug in the Fidelio magazine for a fund in his name. The issue may have come out a while after he died that snowy night. Vol III, No. 4 Winter 1994 (1995) (cover date says Winter 1995) Gelber , the yutes should know did everything to protect Lyn so he could save humanity. When investigations began in Boston by a Grand Jury, we sent many members from North East locals to Europe. We whom were left had to act as if nothing happened and deny that we knew anything about the sudden vanishment of a dozen or so people. This showed up in Michelle Steinberg's infamous notebooks during the investigations. I would guess that Gelber had about 20 years of his life in the org when he too left college. In a split second, poof, it all vanished and all that is left is a paragraph asking for money in Fidelio. You will not find many people who remember that night. The basic story is that he was driving for a long time to meet contacts in a bad snow storm. Those of you who were in the org know about how we often sent members out in Larouche mobiles which were one bald tire away from the junkyard. People who knew about this were stunned as he may have fallen asleep at the wheel. The old motto was "Die for Rockefeller or take power with Larouche". I guess this may have reversed itself as members die for Larouche and support Sen. Rockefeller of W.Va. Ah, a farce and a tragedy for the newbies. Ask why certain people left Europe after the Jeremiah Duggan death. Jeremiah was supposed to be a new recruit and the whole org loved him as he drove with members from France to Germany for a conf. Yep, he was a potential recruit and money source. After his death, notice how the org created an elaborate conspiracy about his family and how the oligarchs used him to prevent Larouche from getting into the White House. This poor kid has to have his life made into a conspiracy against Lyn by the British and Dick Cheney. If you are in the org and can read that crap with a straight face, then you really deserve to be in the Bizarro world of Lyn. justiceforjeremiah.com xlcr4life@hotmail.com} (Message edited by xlcr4life on April 30, 2006) | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 86 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
I wish to thank the Factnet people for splitting up the Larouche posts into easy to read sections. Only problem is that one can not edit a post after a certain time period. Dana Arnest was formerly Dana Sloan many years ago. Dana Sloan was formally our Larouche for President press spokesperson. Now this was funny as the yutes now and most members for the past 25 years were told that the media conspired to silence Lyn from saving the world. Well, that is what you were told. We had numerous press requests for interviews. We could not do them because they would start to ask Lyn questions from his many crazy writings and the interviews would end with Lyn babbling like a kidnapped UFO traveler on acid. The best public example of this was a melt down on the old Morton Downey show. The staff would be kept busy turning down requests since we always came off looking nuts. The best part of this was telling Lyn that behind every media visit was Kissinger, the British or whatever was his favorite Rheingau enhanced paranoia. That Boston Globe article I posted a few weeks ago featured a kid named Pavel in the picture. Pavel should know that there were several versons of him working card table shrines for decades before he came along. They all had the same internal belief in wishing to change the world for the better. Each one dropped out of school or work and spent several years thinking that there card table efforts actually meant something. In the end, each person eventually left. Each person was probably promised a role in the org of doing exciting things or research or something that would appeal to them. These people know a kid like Pavel better than Pavel knows himself. He will hear what he needs to hear and will filter out the crazy resonance of what the real Larouche cult is about. Everyone did this until you could no longer ignore the obvious. I would hope Pavel could read these posts to see what the future is. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| anon127 Junior Member Username: anon127 Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 203.126.136.223 |
abt mike billington, he told gail to attend exercise classes...to lose the fat. he also lives off her wealthy father - a former oil company exec. without money from her father, he won't even hv a roof over his head. gail also does part time work, at a fren's an antique furniture store in another town to get money to keep mike's higher hypothesis afloat. mike billington on the other hand, likes to work with the young recruits, especially the pretty ones. he has a crush on erin - the one the org sent to berlin. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.41 |
I can easily imagine the following horror now taking place in locals across the country: people who have given their very last for decades to LaRouche and are now greying and slower than they used to be, now overtaken by the Young Turk LYMers with all of their mindless energy who snidely compete with the old faithful at the card table shrine and everywhere to empirically verify the impotence of the organizational so-called boomers. The old folks have nowhere to go with no savings, no insurance, no pension, no property, no outside friends, few family, and no healthcare plan beyond the hospital emergency room. But before the Young Turks pat themselves on the back for their superior brilliance and organizing skill, they should realize that they are being played by LaRouche who does not want to have to fork over one cent for the care of the aging membership (beyond the care of himself) and is therefore setting up an out-with-the-old-in-with-new situation. That's it. Sheer economics, kids. That is the true LaRouche economic model. And the old fart is playing you for suckers, you stupid little pr---s. Have fun gloating over the good old soldiers, because you're next, schmucks. | ||
| xylm Member Username: xylm Post Number: 57 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.105.158.214 |
In a nutshell, Larouche consistently takes credit for battling, shaking up, and even causing significant blows to the financial oligarchs who have “taken over this world through wars and oppression.” It’s hard for me to believe that these extremely powerful oligarchs who “have directed the deaths and mental depletions of millions”, have not taken one action to place threats or cause any serious fear among the Larouchies. Not 1 Larouchie has died as a result of being “the biggest challenge” against the most powerful and vicious people in the world, the oligarchs. And mind you, these Larouchies are based in broken down buildings and drive broken down cars with bald tires, which means that they have a better chance finding death from the consequences of their own surroundings and poverty –and if you read up, that’s indeed how all of their deaths have occurred! | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 87 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Lyn has always stated that he needs to recruit from the 18 to 25 year old demographic since they often have not made up their minds up about the world. We would here this at every conference and it did not hit me until I left to truly understand how this works. In a few parts here, we can examine this in more detail. Yes XYLM, more people have died in Larouche's cars than in nuclear power plants. I think a good example of this can be illustrated by the young man in the photo of the Boston Globe article here. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/04/14/colleges_consider_stressing_danger_of_pressure_groups/ His name is Pavel Penev and looks to be in his early 20's. He may have judgement problems with his new friends, but he is not a dummy. I think this is his web site from college http://rubyforge.org/users/pavpen/ . You have to have some brains to get to this level at Berkley. However, brains, do not trump experience and judgement as we often find out later in life. Since Pavel is in Boston, I would ask him to take a close look at the much older Bill Ferguson. The story on Ferguson was that he was attending Princeton on a math scholarship. We picked him up and battled his family as he was the first to go to college and for an African American family,a Princeton scholarship was a dream. Bill had doubts about his abilities and felt pressure in this situation when we met him. We knew how to deal with that and filled Bill's head with how he would be able to master incredible math and science skills in the org. We even filled up his head with dreams of working and writing with our science group, The Fusion Energy Foundation. Bill got to rub shoulders with some of our FEF people and then we put him to work with the FEF. Bill spent the next 20 or so years manning a card table shrine selling Fusion and 21st Century magazines at post offices and airport lobbies. As the years past by, Bill was fully dependent on the org for every aspect of his life. Money, clothes, housing, mating, transportation etc. Every decison Bill made was to benefit Larouche. and boy did Lyn live a great Rheingau filled jet setting life. Bill at least had a web site. where we find some gems. more to come | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 88 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
http://fergusonforcongress.tripod.com/ In the Boston Metro, a free newspaper with a wide circulation, Ferguson's answers to five questions were published on September 4: 1) What would you be doing if you were not in politics? Answer: Like most people, I would be struggling to survive, trying to block out the reality that the economy is collapsing, and hysterically denying the fact that I can do something about it. 2) Who would you set as a role model and why? Answer: Lyndon LaRouche. He is the Socrates of our age, and ingenious enough to cause his enemies to drink the hemlock. 3) What is your greatest fear? Answer: That I would have the opportunity to do something great for humanity and not be ready. 4) Tell us something you have done that demonstrates your character. Answer: I dropped out of Princeton to work with LaRouche because I was more committed to seeking truth and fighting evil than getting a B. S. Degree. 5) Why should you be elected? For over 35 years, economist and statesman Lyndon LaRouche, uniquely, has never erred in any of his long-range forecasts. We are undergoing worldwide financial and monetary disintegration that LaRouche accurately forecast in 1994. Can our citizens find the wisdom and will, despite the political 'leadership,' to act with LaRouche, to beat this Depression? If so, they should elect me because I will implement LaRouche's solutions. At the same time that we had Bill under control, a member named Bob Zubrin who joined in the early 70's was on his way out. If Pavel would like to see the difference between the real world and the Bizarro world of Larouche, then check out the Mars Society here http://www.marssociety.org/ and see who actually has made more progress in 25 years, Ferguson or Zubrin? You can not read a single article or see a TV show on Mars with out Zubrin's input and research. Lyn has a great economics plan, you recruit Bill Fergusons to make him lose everything to replace the departing Zubrins. Pavel is now the new guy who will be replacing Bill Ferguson when his life is exhausted. more to come | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Lyn has been in this game for decades. He almost ran out of Bill Fergusons a few years ago until he started the game up again for the yutes who were born when we first coralled Bill Ferguson from Princeton. If Pavel or Bill think we are joing here, just pick up the May 2nd briefing by Lyn about the org's finances. Here are some exerpts for people to read. " Fortunately, a few of us were not inclined to die willingly. In the concluding years of the Y2000 U.S. Presidential campaign, the beginning of a resuscitation of the organization was underway under my leadership initiatives. These initiatives included the founding of an adult youth movement, an initiative which was met with strong, vigorous opposition, and attempted political sabotage, even from within leading parts of the association, through the time of what proved to be the highly effective July 2004 deployment into the Boston Democratic convention. So, with the emergence of that adult youth movement, we began traveling the unavoidably hard road of rebuilding a shattered, and worn-down association." What Lyn is not telling Pavel is that when Pavel was attending PreK in Bulgaria, we were busy conducting financial scams which cost people millions and sent Lyn and others to prison for years. The members who were bled dry so Lyn could have a mansion and Helga a castle were then purged by Lyn. Those who were not purged usually met with Lyn, saw how crazy he really is and then left. So even though Pavel can read Campaigners by NEC members and others, he will never meet them since they all dropped out and have moved on with their lives. Lets move down the page. " - - The Matter of The LYM - - The LYM, as I have defined its required organization and methods, is the only available way in which our organization can actually earn significant amounts of income to support our activities today. Therefore, it would be the lack of that policy which would be the greatest of the systemic varieties of threat to our capabilities today. People in the "68er" age-interval, as typified by those born between, approximately, 1945 and 1957, are reaching out toward the age of retirement from any vigorous employment. Those born shortly before 1945, are on the way to retirement age. Thus, to state the cruel fact of the matter: who would make a long-term investment in their future economic contribution? Meanwhile, those who entered the LYM ranks about five years ago, or somewhat later, have more than fifty adult years of active economic life ahead of them; they represent a viable long-term investment." moe to come | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
As the old timers die off and leave, the new Pavels of the org will be built up to be the new "Young Turks" to fill their worn out shoes and fill up Lyn and Helga's coffers. " Yet, in fact, the continued existence of society in a civilized form depends absolutely on the LYM's generation. Not only does the LYM typify the best recruits from their generation, the educational and practical orientation established for, and by the LYM is peculiarly suited to the needs for a youthful adult leadership assigned to lead the entire population out of the cultural morass of a society whose reigning generation is destroying itself and civilization generally. Without the effect assigned to the role of the LYM and comparable young-adult programs, there is no reason to invest confidently in the future of any nation of European civilization, or, perhaps, even beyond. The LYM typifies the last available hope, that, in time, the world can be rescued from the greatest collapse, globally, world-wide, in modern world history as a whole. Whoever is getting money these days, the LYM is actually earning it for us all." As we continue we see how Lyn is now on to the next replacements of income generation which he and Helga will depend on. Next, we will see how that after the LYM are built up as saviours of the universe from the final econmic collapse, their efforts are not quite enough to save humanity. Since the new yutes now have a predicted work span of 50 years for Lyn and Helga, you may think that the LYM will have it easy. I do not think so. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
After being praised as the real saviours of humanity, unlike the old worn out LCers in Leesburg who keep going to doctors and clinics, the LYM now have a new word in their life. QUOTA First you take what ever the LYM can give you, now you have to bring it in. Any you guys and girls thought that you were above this. "FROM: Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. - - CHAIRMAN'S WEEKLY REPORT - - 3:39 PM 4/29/2006 EDT - My first week of reporting the sales performance outcome has been a painful experience. Despite the continued fair performance by Philadephia, the National Center, and Houston, the LPAC results reflect a failure to recognize the crucial importance of the LYM deployment. Although the trend in Baltimore and Los Angeles reveals large potential for improvement, reports from around the nation show that the "Boomers" generally do not grasp the political realities of the role of the LPAC as the driver on which our overall potential depends. On this account, the U.S. performance and attitude are better than among elements of the organization in Germany, a poorer overall performance which chiefly reflects the reluctance to understand the crucial role of mass= oriented political-campaign organizing in mustering the moral support on which the overall performance of sales representatives depends absolutely. The same problem seen in Germany exists in Boomer circles within key elements of regional organizations here, but the resistance to effective political outreach is relatively much greater among Boomers in Germany, and in the U.S.A. This Thursday's webcast showed the rapid spread of deep-going political acceptance in the U.S.A., as the developments in the Democratic Party in California are a conclusive demonstration of the fact that the effective existence of the organization in every nation in which we are working depends absolutely, and increasingly on the rule of political campaigning by our independent organizations of young adults. In the U.S. itself, the level of LPAC support determines the possibility for the continued functional existence of the association as a whole. That lesson is still poorly understood among Boomers, even Boomers among the leadership. The influence of the "post-industrial" ideology embedded in the ranks of the "68ers," reflects an instilled aversion to meaningful forms of work which spills over into a failure, among some of us, to recognize the absolute distinction between gaining an income, and actually earning one. As in earlier history of modern European civilization, as in the case of he American Revolution,for example, it is chiefly young adults, such as those in the 18-25 age-bracket who make the future of their nations. Every sane and literate adult knows that the idea of the futu re of any nation lies within the state of mind and activity of a leading portion of young adults in the 18-25 bracket. It is the activity of those young adults who inform the people as a whole that their nation, their culture, does have a living future. It is not "issues" which move the older generations; it is the perception, among the older generations, that the nation has a future, a future expressed by the role of the young adults who have about fifty years, or more of productive life before them. Those are the principles which separate merely gaining a meagre income, and earning respectable degrees of support from among the population in general." There we go Pavel, you have a few decades of card table hustling and money to sign over for not just Lyn's remaining years, but Helga's golden years | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 92 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
If you think I am just makingthis up, check out this site and see where a good deal of Larouche Pac money comes from http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.asp?strID=C00309567 You will see that the org raised over 4 million dollars for LPAC, while still owing $233,000. Now go see who the donors are and notice how a lot of money is from new LYM recruits and dead enders who have outside jobs. http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgave.asp?strID=C00309567&Cycle=2006 There is a 5K "Donation" from a LYM whose father served time in prison for our financial crimes. When he left, he found out that he had more friends in prison than in Leesburg. He left the org and helped out other members who were left out to dry so to speak. Unfortunately, he passed away way too young. He left his only child some money. Guess where the money went after the check cleared? No matter how much Pavel makes at a card table shrine, no matter how much he signs over, no matter how much he can make over the phone, it will never be enough and Humanity will always be one quota away from being saved. This circus will never end, the collapse which ends everything will always be in the next fiscal quarter. Get ready for 24/7 fundraising as this memo is starting the race for the LYM. No matter what promises of "reaching your full potential" were given to Pavel, his real potential is at a card table shrine for a few decades like Bill Ferguson. I would not doubt that Pavel has had his ego built up by telling him that the oligarchy has targeted him because he can be the key to changing the course of history. He needs to summon all of his powers to thwart the evil George Schultz and the Boston Globe, along with Harvard who are trying to silence Larouche. The tragedy is that whatever skills a kid like Pavel had, they will be surpassed as the world progresses. What was a skill and potential career last year in Berkley will be old news in a few years. Like Bill, he may have no place to go except where he is told. I can't insult a person like Pavel because many of us were as idealitic as he probably is. Many of us had domestic pressures and a lack of self confidence and experience to figure out what was going on. The org understands that very well and will give you that confidence and remove you from what ever pressure you think you had. I hope his family and any other family always keep doors open and talk. Never send cash though and update your wills. You find out later that you can not get your younger years back. Take a look at the Mars society upcoming conference next August and compare that to the lunacy you read from Lyn . Maybe a few years from now the Pavels of the org can pick up an old pamphlet and slap themselves in the head and say "WTF was I thinking?". xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 108 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Great stuff. Amazing that the stipends for the field hands appear from these records to be identical to what was (sometimes) paid out TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO. I just hope that the borderline IQ Phil Rubinstein is forking over enough cash in CA to people to pay their rent. He claimed to understand transfinite arithmetic in NY, but could not quite handle finite arithmetic. A mixture of spite, impotence, and stupidity I suppose, to be fair. He is not alone in that. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Sancho , most of the NC's are now at least over 50 years old. I would ask any LYM member to reread the May 2nd memo in the briefing by Lyn about money matters. Reread this section please. "People in the "68er" age-interval, as typified by those born between, approximately, 1945 and 1957, are reaching out toward the age of retirement from any vigorous employment. Those born shortly before 1945, are on the way to retirement age. Thus, to state the cruel fact of the matter: who would make a long-term investment in their future economic contribution? Meanwhile, those who entered the LYM ranks about five years ago, or somewhatlater, have more than fifty adult years of active economic life ahead of them; they represent a viable long-term investment." This briefing seems to have been sent around the globe by current older members to former members whom they were friendly with asking and sometimes begging for help! Can a current 18 to 25 year old LYM member with over 50 years of active economic (card table shrine and phone bank) life ahead of them ask some old timers Like Phil, Harley, Debra, Dennis, Larry, Barbara, Jeff, poor old Zeke, Chuck, Bob B. in Michigan, Shiela and her husband, Al D and his brother in Philly and anyone I missed what exactly is meant by that statement? The liquor stores in Leesburg will have plenty of business as many older members are up to their necks and beyond in refinanced loans and credit cards. It does seem like everything we organized against in the past like primitive accumulation and the greatest economic collapse of your lifetime has hit the members right in their senior years. The fun has only begun for the LYMers. You will see an increased stream of various end of the economy and world briefings and quotas raised each week for a new mobilization. A new groundbreaking document will be released by Lyn about how the LYM can change the course of human history in the 2008 elections--- "if only we have the funds to alter the shape and destiny of the course of human events in your lifetime". You could take any member from 1972 to the present day and they could write these memos every few years and you guys could not tell the difference. Time goes by real fast, just look at the aged leftovers in Leesburg who are ready to be dumped like yesterday's trash cause the new models are in and are cheaper to run. xlcr4life | ||
| kheris Member Username: kheris Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.21.12.165 |
Looks like Helga is ready to take over the world if this is any indication. I'd love to see the list of signatories. But I suspect we will have to wait until they scrub it of those who have offered money to not be mentioned publicly. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.40 |
From the Helga News: "A new 'Treaty of Westphalia' must guarantee the opening up and development of raw materials for all nations on this Earth, for at least the next 50 years." I guess by raw materials she means the LYMers. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 94 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
There may be some new readers of this section who used to be in the LYM. In case you think that you are missing something, here is something I may have posted a while ago. You did the right thing by escaping from the Bizarro world. xlcr4life@hotmail.com March 31, 2004 Barmy as three ferrets in a burlap sack. I had another brush with Lyndon LaRouche's zany cultists this afternoon. It was a bright and cheerful day, and I was feeling full of beans. I was heading to the HUB for some pizza when I spied yet another of LaRouche's dupes flogging his table full of pamphlets with titles like 'Children of Satan II' and spewing untruth into the ears of the unwary...He was giving his little spiel to an unfortunate girl as I passed; I happened to catch sight of his notepad, on which I observed him scrawling what appeared to be geometry. I felt it my duty to whisper in the poor girl's ear as I passed that the LaRouche people were crazy, since they sort of are. Mr Cultist--I don't know his name, so let's call him Pickles--happened to overhear, and did protest. How could I say such a thing? Had I even read their stuff, he asked? Pickles engaged me in discussion. Which is to say, after he found out I was a mathematician, he threw out more or less unconnected, off-topic factoids from mathematics and (once or twice) physics, trying to wow me and cow me with his erudition until I succumbed. The thing was, he got all of his mathematical and physical points fundamentally very wrong. Like the other LaRouchies I've talked with, Pickles was jam-packed with names, dates (some even correct), buzzwords, and even a few pieces of genuine information. None of it, however, made sense. I pointed out to him his factual errors. Perhaps I took a somewhat combative tone, but I think on the whole I was fairly civil. He tried to talk about heat but he didn't know what statistical mechanics was. He tried to talk about nuclear forces, but didn't know the difference between a lepton and a hadron. (He thought a positively-charged electron was a proton.) Just like the last one, he was all about demonising Isaac Newton and Euler; I've also heard and read LaRouchian assaults on Lagrange, Cauchy, Hermite, and others. They're all about Kepler, though. And Gauss. Gauss' proof of the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra seems to have mystical significance for them; I tried to explain that there are better modern proofs, but apparently most of modern mathematics is a malicious fraud ignoring the philsophical implications only Lyndon LaRouche has the wisdom to see. When he did his Newton/Kepler schtick, I tried to convince him that Newtonian gravitation was a hell of a lot more powerful than Kepler's laws of planetary motion; according to him, I was missing the point. After all, Newton was a warlock. And Kepler was an astrologer, I told Pickles; so? I kept hammering away at Pickles until he was completely sick of me, and he told me I was ignorant and closed-minded. A passing, gallant gentleman overheard, and leapt to my defense. He'd been dealing with LaRouchies for thirty years, he said, and it seemed he was even sicker of them than I am. He gave Pickles what you might call an earful. LaRouche's cult was packed with egomaniacs, he said, out to puff themselves up with fancy-seeming snippets of information they really didn't understand, flashing it around to make themselves seem superior and degrading anyone who argued with them. Which has certainly been true of all the LaRouche cultists I've met. In the end, Pickles got so sick of us that he told us to 'stop masturbating onto his table' and walked away. It was a beautiful, beautiful moment. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 95 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
****************** Part two ******************* Lyndon LaRouche seems to run a sort of intellectual cargo cult. He and his followers use mathematics like a talisman. They seem to think of it in magical terms. They scoop up bits and baubles and phrases from real mathematics, and they chant their stolen scraps like spells or incantations, as if the power resided in the words alone: as if saying it made them an Authority. And there is a certain power that comes from mathematics. I have yet to harness representation theory of semisimple Lie groups to make laser beams shoot from my eyes or bend the masses to my will, but there is still power. There is the power that comes from an ability to think logically and model the physical universe, but this is uninteresting to LaRouche and Pickles; this power takes long years of careful study to achieve. They want power over other people: they covet the power that comes with credibility and with 'expert' status. They mouth the words and expect the power to flow through them. Everything, to them, is about personality; nothing descends, in the end, to logic or fact. To discredit Newton's mathematical contributions they claim he was a warlock; they can't distinguish the man from his work. It doesn't matter if Newton was barmy as three ferrets in a burlap sack; he was still a genius. But it has to be all about personality to them, because without it, they are nothing. All they have is their Black Mass mockery of real scholarship, trappings and appearances. Their cargo-cult airfields. Which can fool someone, if they've never seen an airfield before. (Mathematically, most people haven't.) But when challenged they invoke their crude idols of bamboo and bone, utter their Words of Power...And it all fails them. The airplanes never land. And since it isn't big enough to deserve a posting of its own, I'll add here that Moonies have something far, far sillier than the Mormon Magic Underwear: Moonies have the Holy Handkerchief. After man and wife are properly joined by the Unification Church, they are to ritualistically mate on three consecutive days under the watchful eye of a photo of the Reverend Moon, having sprinkled the Holy Salt. Then they are to wipe their naughty bits with this Holy Handkerchief, which they are never allowed to launder. Ever. | ||
| xlarouchie New member Username: xlarouchie Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.129.77.252 |
Hi Everyone. I just quit the movement a few months ago. I was in the Movement from November till March. I would love to hear from other members about their experience with this cult. I was from the L.A. Local by the way. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 96 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Let me be the first to congratulate xlar for coming to his senses and leaving the Bizarro world. I have heard so many horror stories about LA that I hope you were not skinned alive financially and brutalized by your experience. The big question, among several, is this. Did you cross paths with young Steve Renden who left here and Yale to proclaim Larouche as his Messiah? Stve Renden will make his place in history, though not the way he imagines. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlarouchie New member Username: xlarouchie Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.129.77.252 |
Yes i did know steve. He's now $30,000.00 in debt because he dropped out of Yale. He has a Gf outside the movement who helps keep him sane. He has a great sense of humor and has not been beaten down yet. I think Harley is scared to do that because they're happy enough that he's even there. They'd rather have him slowly get warped then risk him leaving permanantly. Later on though they did mess with his head. They would say stuff like " George Bush went to yale. Do you want to be like George Bush?". That was after he was thinking of going back to school. Steve lived in a house with mostly new members. Steve, George, Mark, and I. I slowly saw how a lot of them, including myself would come home with less enthusiasm. Oh and yes there is still a huge alcohol problem in the organzation. Some people would not just drink but get drunk every night. | ||
| xylm Member Username: xylm Post Number: 58 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.105.158.214 |
xlarouchie, You should indeed be very proud of yourself for breaking through the mind control techniques they have been imposing on you. Unfortunately, only a few have been lucky to find realization and we have since been battling to find better ways of deprogramming the huge remainder. I’m sure your story would be helpful: could you explain to us how you withstood the brainwashing or came back to terms with the real world? By the way, I was also affiliated with the L.A. office. How is Cody and Ardena doing? | ||
| kheris Member Username: kheris Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 72.255.9.23 |
Hello Xlar -- question for you, did you participate in any of Robert Beltran's drama workshops? He was quite the guy for the organization for a couple of years due to his interest in classical drama. I understand Harley briefed Beltran's cast for The Big Knife on Trumanism, and Harley used to call Beltran his friend. Is Beltran still doing workshops, or has he moved on to greener pastures? I am very curious as to any light you can shed on Beltran's participation and his current status. | ||
| xlarouchie New member Username: xlarouchie Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.129.77.252 |
Cody and Ardena are considered youth leaders. A lot of people look up to them. I feel sorry for Ardena. I heard she had a promising carrear as a singer. I started to realise how nutty they were when we were organised for a cadre school. Prior to the event Leni told everyone we needed to make quota. This meant that we woke up at 5:00 am 3 days in a row and deployed till midnight with just one stir fry bowl. I remember thinking how nutty the movment was. I also noticed during one of Bruce Director's classes that he would just babble about nonsense. He would talk about the planets' orbit and say how it relates to Larouche's economics. One member that was very intimidating was Nick Walsh. I would ask him rational questions and he would become this rage ball. Some members that I liked were Tim, Lewis, and Sky. Tim and Lewis were into art and history.It was nice talking to them about history when larouche's conspiracy theories werenn't mixed in with it. As far as fitting into the real world, I'm making progress but still have some problems. It's harder for me to enjoy the hobbies I use to like. | ||
| xlarouchie New member Username: xlarouchie Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.129.77.252 |
Yeah, Beltran is still doing drama workshops. I only went to a few of them because I usualy took a nap during that time. Sunday was our only day off besides reading days so whenever I had the day off I would either read in an area far away from the office or get some rest. I guess subconsciouscly I didn't feel comfortable around the movement. Financialy speaking I think Beltran is ok. He has a house and not sure how much he donates to the movement. He only shows up once a week so I'm not sure how much he buys into Larouche's conspiracy theories. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
xlar, we once posted here a comparison of stipends between LYM and the 1980's. Adjusting for inflation, the LYM are paid 50% less. How do members survive in a high cost area like LA? Did you get a check from ASDI with taxes taken out? Phil has a great history of squeezing members dry. He would be selling your blood if he could cash instead of cookies and an apple juice. He used to have the members in his local call their parents about some illness which could be cured for a few hundred in cash. It happened every 4 years and was called matchingfunditis. The only person even more crazy about sending Lyn money was former LA honcho Will Wertz. Wertz was sent to jail for this while only peeople who worked Phil's boiler rooms went to prison. Leni telling about quotas is funny. She is Phil's wife and he has been trying to hit quota and create a mass movement for over thirty years. Has Leni given you the "How can you ask that question? Don't you know that a nuclear bomb can fall on us any minute" speech. Phil can't figure out that the glasses of Rheingau clicked for years in toasts to him. Imagine, a Jewish guy still raising money for Lyn 20 years after the infamous Jew Jokes were told to certain people in the National Office . He may have been too busy throwing chairs and pounding tables to hit quota to object. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 110 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
"As far as fitting into the real world, I'm making progress but still have some problems. It's harder for me to enjoy the hobbies I use to like." It has been years since I left the organization, and I made the mistake of never going to therapy afterwards making my readjustment to reality unnecessarily prolonged. So if you or your family can afford it, try to find a good therapist to talk to for a few sessions just to get rebalanced. There are a lot of bad ones out there, so watch out. You also needn't get a cult specialist - perhaps ought not get one - just an experienced and sympathetic ear. My major problem was guilt: I was in much longer than you and really believed I was in the vanguard of humanity so that when I quit for years afterward I felt tremendous guilt that I had "abandoned humanity." You may have other issues: just find someone to talk to who can help you regain perspective. Just remember you did what you thought was the right thing and had all the right reasons for joining: it is not your fault that this turned out to be a criminal enterprise wrapped in a cult of personality. Your good heart will lead you to more productive ways to help people in the future than the insanely grandiose one of "saving humanity." Good luck. | ||
| wanderer New member Username: wanderer Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.202.12.120 |
What a coincidence. Every time Robert Beltran makes a public appearance, ex-LHLs and closet LHLs appear out of nowhere to claim knowledge of the inner workings of the organisation. You've just fallen for the oldest ploy in the PR handbook. Sorry guys. I wouldn't believe a word this dude says. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.42 |
And I still don't understand the fascination with this character. You'd think he was Lee Strasberg. I used to watch _Voyager_ and thought long before knowing of his involvement with the NCLC that he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag. But I guess I'm missing something. | ||
| kheris Member Username: kheris Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 72.255.9.23 |
Sancho - I just like keeping tabs since I am a fan. I thought he had pretty much left LHL's orbit, but based on Xlar's comments it sounds like he is still hanging with the organization, although his participation isn't being trumpeted as it was before. Wanderer - I think some of the ex-members here are in a better position than either of us to say whether or not Xlar's comments ring true or false. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 112 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
The one thing that suggests to me that the Grendons, etc. may be the same troll is that they are all uniformly bad spellers. The troll may even be anti-LaRouche just trying to stir up interest in this bulletin board again. Also, xlarouchie spells realize "realise" so that he may be Canadian like that antisemitic Dune-fanatic drunkenhegel/Dr Ritter. Who knows. Even if none of us wrote here not another word, all the foregoing posts would convince anyone of moderate sanity to steer entirely clear of the LaRouche gang. We have done our job. I have been out of the organization far too long to know whether what xlarouchie says rings true or not. To describe Grendon as having a wonderful sense of humor, however, seems most unlikely, at least based upon his turgid, mother-dominated ramblings here. Again, who knows. LaRouche will die soon, and the whole sham/scam will come apart at the seams. Requiescat in pace. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Steve is quite funny in retrospect. Look back at the last few years of part III and II to read his posts. He had a lot of information provided here for him to question his new found friends. Perhaps it was too much to ask him to use empirical data in analysis. We predicted that he would be in debt and manning a card table shrine with a dead ender. So far, our economic forecasting is ahead of the cult's. If he can't get his girl to join, then she will be made into a variation of evil and mother's fears who is holding him back in potentcy. After the honeymoon period, Steve has that May 2nd memo by Lyn to start raising serious bucks. If he doesn't hit the quota, he will be considered "blocked" in org lingo and can expect some late night sessions and some intimate talk about his outside female interests. There is no shortage of nuclear war mobes, end of the economy mobes, money mobes to hit Steve with over and over and over. A regular Twilight Zone episode for Steve. I would encourage exlar to describe his experiences. The names may change but the story has been running for 40 years. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.41 |
"The ontological implication in that case, is of the same quality as that which Gauss made, in refuting the blunders of Euler et al., for his clarification of the fundamental principle of algebra. The essential point, underlying both the discoveries of Leibniz and the defense of Leibniz by Gauss's work, and, most emphatically, the work of Bernhard Riemann, is that an experimentally demonstrable universal physical principle, when treated as an object of the human mind, is, by implied definition, an object of thought, an idea whose existence is as big as the universe. It, as a principle, is never containable within the bounds of any local object of sense-perception. Yet, its practical effect on the world of sense-certainty is as unavoidable as it is implicitly universal. The action this principle expresses, appears as the infinitesimal in the small." --LaRouche, "Cities of the Plain" It was so hard to settle on the MOST nonsensical piece to pull from this latest product of Lyn's advancing dementia, but I think this one is at least as good as any other. I challenge anyone to demonstrate how this makes any sense at all in any possible logical universe. Once again: This is your brain. This is your brain on LaRouche. | ||
| xylm Member Username: xylm Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 207.105.158.214 |
He is simply using verbose and unstructured methods of speaking to steer the ability of his unwary readers to catch the holes in his logic: you will often find that there is no relationship between his premise and conclusion. | ||
| jmp87 New member Username: jmp87 Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.129.77.252 |
Hi this is xlarouchie, for some reason my account wasn't working after a few posts so I had to make a new account. | ||
| jmp87 New member Username: jmp87 Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 72.129.77.252 |
I quit the movement 2 months ago. I guess you think I'm still in the mvoement because I don't have animosity against some of the members. Well the truth is the members aren't the evil people who know whats realy going on. They're just fooled into believing in Larouche's garbage. I met some good people in the movement who's lives are now ruined. The past few months have been a rollercoaster for me as well. When I first left I had this terrible guilt trip but after exercising and hanging out with my friends the idea of the economy falling apart sounded silly. I'm also getting back into hobbies I enjoyed before I joined. In someways things that I use to take for granted are so precious to me. In fact just knowing that I'm free now. It's a beautiful feeling. Every so often I get plagued with thoughts that are very disturbing but I'm doing better now. One thought that constantly plagues me is " If I only didn't run into their table" or "If only I didn't give them my #" | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Yes, those were my feelings exactly, but still try to talk to a professional for a few sessions. You have been traumatized without being aware of it. Also, if you see some of my posts above, I state over and over that some of the best people I have ever known were - and many remain - in that organization. One reason I post here is to help show them that there is life after LaRouchian lunacy. I know that feeling of freedom, especially on Saturday mornings when I wake up knowing I don't have to deploy. Ahhh! Best of luck. P.S. I would advise you to conceal your identity: the LaRouchites are very vindictive. When I began to post here, I informed my local police precinct that if anything unusual should ever happen to me, the first person they should talk to is Jeff Steinberg. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
Hello, all US EX-Lyns! As a Swedish Lyndon watcher, I must ask you all: What did Lyndon tell you folks about Swedish PM Olof Palme? The Swedish branch of the movement, European Workers Party, ran a furious hate campaign against Olof Palme for ten years, and they didn't stop when he was murdered. How was this discussed within the movement at the time? Did you meet Swedish activists? (Message edited by Swedish_lyn_watcher on May 26, 2006) | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 115 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
When I was in (long before the assassination) he together with other Social-Democratic-types such as Brandt and Kennedy were villified (which I found strange for a putatively "labor" party.) In retrospect I don't think it was so much a case of LaRouche any more trying to distinguish himself from others on the left, so much as trying to suck up to right-winger dollars. I met at most one Swedish member, but recall nothing about Palme: at the time he was simply villified as much as say Kissinger later: Palme and Kissinger at different times being seen by LaRouche as personal enemies who were considered to be actively conspiring against him. Otherwise LaRouche is entirely irrational: his "method" yields the same enemies list that throwing a hundred names in a hat and drawing out ten at random to become your personal enemies does. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
Sancho, you wrote >so much as trying to suck up to right-winger dollars When did this occur, according to your recollection? In Sweden, the LaRouchites came into sight in 1973 under the alias ELC. In 1976 they formed EAP (European Workers Party) under the slogan 'Join and form a truely international communist party'. Already before forming the party, the Palme hatred campaign was their signum, attacking him in classical right-wing manners and M.O., but with typical leftist rhetoric. It is known that EAP managed to raise right-winger money, but not until the rightward turn that occurred in 1980 (in Sweden). What is interesting about the Swedish LaRouchites Palme campaign, is that it fit in very well with the Palme hatered of the 'conventional' right, which is to say that their campaign was not odd and curious, just a little more extreme than what Sweden was used to - at the time. However, EAP set the standard for the Palme hatred in the mid 70's and they did attract followers by - among other things - this hate campaign. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
What about LaRouche and Richard Nixon? When going through the LaRouche history, it is hard to find any critical sayings on Nixon. Did I miss something, or is this actually the case? It's puzzling though, as Henry Kissinger is villain #1. Wouldn't Nixon be #2? Did LaRouche oppose the Vietnam War at the time? (His anti-Palme campaign indicates the opposite; the way by which they attacked Palme was the same as the one of those who attacked him for being pro-FNL/anti-US). (Message edited by swedish_lyn_watcher on May 26, 2006) | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 116 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
My recollection is that as early as 1974 the LaRouchites were sniffing around Republican circles - which is how they ended up being such good friends of antisemite right-wing extremists as Roy Frankhauser and others in the Liberty Lobby, then America's largest gaggle of Holocaust-deniers. By that time of course the war had basically ended. From what I know now of how LaRouche operates, I suspect their hostility to Palme and others may indeed have been occasioned by a personal rebuff to the LaRouchites. How else to explain such continuing Satanic hatred at arbitrary individuals? But then, I am no psychiatrist. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
1974... Republicans... What about Nixon? And Lyns view on Watergate? | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
I don't recall what his view was of Nixon or Watergate. But his modus operandi is to take the side which is being (usually legitimately) prosecuted or persecuted (Nixon, Marcos, Teamsters, et al.) and sidling up to them so that he can shake money out of their pockets on the grounds that the world's evil forces are after that person. For example, see 1980s EIR stories which characterize Marcos as a philosopher king. In 1974 Republicans were feeling besieged in the wake of Watergate, so guess who was there boiling the phones? | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
Sancho, When reading earlier posts in this thread, I found the following in one of your posts: "...once the Crazy Uncle (LaRouche) dies - and his empty-headed hangers-on are routed by the more rational members - it might be possible for a group of members to shed all the zaniness, cultism, and wooly "thinking" of LaRouche to isolate the best of Labor Committee policy and thinking and fight for it and to use its intelligence networks to serve as a gadfly on the butt of this disintegrating republic." Does this mean that the LC:s really can outlive LaRouche, and that a non-nonsense post-LaRouche movement can be established? If so, hypothetically, what would its policies be built on? Political targets? Left or right? Isn't it more probable that Helga Z-Lr inherits the crown? | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 99 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Mr. Swedish LW, you raise some historical questions which may help yopu in Europe. First, never view Lyn and whatever front group you run into as legitmate in anything or operating with ratioanale rhyme or reasons. The whole traveling circus is based on a cult of personality and having various layers of deception among the membership. What ever will get a targetted strata money or bodies for Lyn is what counts. You can say anything and on a dime and for a dime, change everything overnight. In the last days of the student protests on US campuses came Students for a Democratic Society, SDS. Into this milleau came Lyn who became a marxist revolutionary for the first batch of 18 to 25 year old college kids who needed an excuse not to go to class. Lyn allied himself with some students and thus the "labor Committee SDS" was formed and trust funds were quickly depleted. Since everyone believed that the CIA was powerfull, Lyn made the CIA into the mightiest conspiratorial force on the face of the earth. During Watergate, Lyn actually testified on some Watergate hearing and denounced it as a CIA plot against Nixon. Even though the members thought we were Marxist hell bent on a new socialist order, Lyn and inner security people were starting to meet with various right wing groups. Hocus Pocus and now the Rockefellers and the usual far far right views of the CFR and Trilateral commission become our staples. David was the banker and Nelson went from the NY State Governor to being the Vice President under Ford which proved that Lyn was right. In the mid 70's every piece of lit we produced was about the Rockefellers and the role of the staff doing research was to always prove it with any one who we hated. Even if we ran for a local council race we would put out leafletts that the person is a stooge and connected to Rockefeller. What you must notice is how Lyn creates his own version of events whereby we defended Nixon because he was being set up by Rockefeller. You can see in old Campaigners and New Solidarities that Lyn even claimed that the actions of the LC prevented a CIA coup in the US. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
With a growing collection of 18 to 25 year old youth, we created the US Labor Party and began the transformation to clean cut conservative kids at US Airports with card table shrines battling the Moonies for floor space. Unbeknowst to most members, Lyn and the security staff were meeting with Willis Carto of the Liberty Lobbly and a guy named Mitch Werbell who invented a deadly machine gun favored by killers around the globe. The boys were sent to Georgia for training in weapons and security while Lyn began his first taste of the good life arriving on Werbell's farm in helicopters. We hired Werbell's friends as security for Lyn and created a crazy relationship where Werbell and security people knew Lyn was nuts and would feed him lines about assasination plots while Lyn would believe them and somehow, plenty of money was shifted around. I can't recall the whole story, but, one of the security people we hired went to a TV reporter about hearing plans by some in the org to kill Kissinger with a remote controlled airplane. The context it was said in I do not know, but I would get concerned when you see a cult with guns. AS the 1980's rolled on we had dumped Marxism as that angle was done and found new riches on the right side of the fence. Rockefeller basically disappeared one day off of the publications and the Zionists and the British became our enemy while we went form supporting the Russian Ruble to warning people about how the Democrats would surrender and the Ruble was the new currency. Lyn fond himself on a podium with Reagan in a 1980 New Hampshire NRA forum I think and parlayed that to his now being an advisor to Reagan. We quickly called up Reagan fund raising lists and warned them that Regan is a good amn who has the CFR and Trilat boys trying to take him over. Even though Lyn is a Democrat, give money to us and we can save Reagan. Palme was always in our publications. The first time I saw him was as a caricature as an axe wielding psycho form a Bergman film. We always had cartoons of a pimpled face Palme with an axe in the 1970's. In the 1970's we attacked him as not being a real socialist since only Lyn was a real Socialist. In the 1980's we were now the biggest anti Russians on the face of the planet. Our whole campiagns were about the take over the world by Russia and how the Russian Orthodox Church was running Russia with a "Third Rome" empire plan of conquest. In this plans, the Democratic party were the traitors. Palme was one of our biggest eneimies since we printed that he was KGB run, blackmailed, influenced, married, you take your pick. The members were on endless around the clock deployments 7 days a week to prevent Nuclear war and a Soviet takeover. Of course, raising money would stop this. What it really stopped was Lyn being thrown out of 5 star hotels as he and Helga jet setted on the Concorde and had a high life style. What the org does is take some news and create a univers for members to think that they are the players rahter than being played by Lyn and Helga. Staying out all night and raising money would stop Nuclear War. Then Palme was killed and we were named. I have an intersting article next about this. | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
The Euro org was always in debt and the only thing which counted was Germany. The Germans considered the rest of the locals as culturally inferior. Sweden was always considered a crazy place and we would hears rumours of drug usage and bizarre happenings. Things got more bizarre in the US when one suspect was revealed to be one of our own memebrs. I can not say that this exerpt is true or not. ************************************************* Viktor Gunnarsson, the first suspect in the assassination of Swedish statsminister Olof Palme in Stockholm on February 28, 1986, was himself murdered outside Boone, North Carolina, during the early morning of December 4, 1993. Just before the killing, Borge Wingren, a former Swedish police inspector, had written a book, entitled He Killed Olof Palme - naming Gunnarsson, who often boasted of having committed the crime, as the statsminister's shooter - and now, it seemed, he had finally gotten what he most deserved. Gunnarsson was a neo-Nazi, with all kinds of connections to covert operators, especially in the Central Intelligence Agency. Well before Palme's assassination, he established a Stockholm branch of the European Workers' Party (EWP), a right-wing group, despite its name, founded by the infamous Lyndon LaRouche. It was known for putting up posters around the Swedish capital, contrasting Palme's mentor, Tage Erlander, as the nation's father (landsfader) with his former secretary, Palme, the nation's betrayer (landsförrädare). For eliminating such vermin, LaRouche's group recommended vigorous applications of DDT. In the fall of 1985, Gunnarsson went to an EWP convention in London, an assembly that the famous Soviet military historian, Edinbrugh's Professor John Erickson, helped put together for finally helping arrange the downfall of the USSR. Erickson, given the unprecedented contacts he had developed with the Soviets, especially in the Red Army, in helping Cornelius Ryan research The Last Battle , and in writing his own magisterial Stalin's War with Germany , had concluded that time had finally run out on the USSR's attempt to contain America's 'deterrence by puishment' through its b ridgehead in Scandinavia by Russia's defense in depth - what he elaborated on in his 1985 article "The Soviet View of Deterrence: A General Survey." more to follow | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 102 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
****************Continued********************** And Gunnarsson came back from the conference to help arrange conditions on the ground in Stockholm by providing deceptions for the real assassin, an agent of former SAS Major David Walker's KMS firm, whose shooting was to provide the trigger for the whole operation. While Erickson came to Stockholm, demanding that Palme do something to stop Soviet intrusions into Swedish territory, Gunnarson did everything he could to make it look as if he was preparing to kill Palme. By now, a reasonable shot with a pistol, thanks to weapons training he had had with some US Marines from the Embassy in a basement of a house in a Stockholm suburb, Gunnarson told his girl friend that the statsminister would be shot with ammunition capable of penetrating bullet-proo f jackets while the performance of his bodyguards was being reassessed. On the day of the murder, a friend of Gunnarsson's was surprised to see that he had shaved off his moustache. On the night of the assassination, Gunnarsson did everything he could to make it look as if he were the assassin. He had an apartment along the escape route the real assassin took in making his getaway. He admitted that he was in the area when the shooting took place, and he had no alibi for where he actually was when it happened. Shortly after Palme was shot, he apparently tried to flag down a cab in a most agitated state, and then he barged into a cinema, 45 minutes after the movie had started, in a similar state which caught the attention of two girls who were sitting nearby. Little wonder that when the plotters' plan to make Soviet spy Stig Bergling the real decoy failed , and the assassination did not trigger the final showdown with the Soviets - thanks to more spying for Moscow by the Agency's Aldrich "Rick" Ames and the Bureau's Robert Hanssen, the refusal of Altantic Fleet Commander Admiral Carl Trost to join up Task Force Eagle with NATO's Anchor Express Exercise for a military thrust across Norway's Finnmark region into the USSR's Kola Peninsula, and the disaster which occurred to the Norwegian forces when they attempted to move through the Vassdalen Valley - the Stockholm police were obliged to go after Gunnarsson, but it achieved little result. The police were so eager to indict him that it showed a key witness a photograph of Gunnarsson before a police lineup including him - what only resulted in the resignation of prosecutor K. G. Svensson after he had ordered Gunnarsson's release. Then an intensiv e examination of the jacket he was apparently wearing at the time for gunpowder traces proved fruitless. ************************************************ The death of Gunnarsson was not the end of the story. During the death of Palme and investigation, we were under investigation or trial for financial fraud. At the end of the Reagan 2nd term , Iran Contra was the issue and we incorporated that into our crazy world. A common strategy the org has is to take a crime or problem we have and incorporate it into the biggest conspiracy ever to stop Lyn. In Iran Contra we called up some old rich women who Oliver North was calling and thus the whole case against us was not of fraud but Iran Contra and Larouche. This is all taking place during raids, TV shows on us, a lawsuite we lost where calling Lyn a "Small Time Hitler" was not slander and the Palme investigation. | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 103 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
The NY Times printed this article about Palme and Larouche. *********************************************** LaRouche Documents Linked to Palme Case SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES Published: December 5, 1986 The Federal Bureau of Investigation obtained documents during a raid of the headquarters of Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. that could be helpful to Sweden in the search for the killer of Prime Minister Olof Palme, American law enforcement officials said today. The officials said the documents did not link Mr. LaRouche, the conspiracy theorist, or his groups to the murder last February, but suggested that his adherents had been critical of Mr. Palme and had followed the murder investigation. A spokesman for Mr. LaRouche, Dana Scanlon, denied any connection between the groups and the death, and said the statements by the American officials were ''classical K.G.B. disinformation.'' The K.G.B. is the Soviet internal security agency. One official said it would take a ''quantum leap'' to assume that the evidence provided a strong link. In March, the Swedish police released Ake Lennart Victor Gunnarsson after having charged him with involvement in the slaying. He reportedly had ties to a European rightist group linked to Mr. LaRouche; the European group denied it. ************************************************* What is the standard operation is to get the members to forget anything about our deeds and not to ask about what happened. You create an elaborate and wild conspiracy and have the members sell that at card table shrines. You also insert Lyn into whatever is big in the news and further create delusions of grandeur while being quiet about other crimes and misdomeanors. In the Jeremiah Duggan case the new LYM have no idea of our history. Thus, it does not seem odd that many European members who were at the conference and could help the police or family quickly showed up in the US. Jeremiah's mother is not a grieving parent, but part of a British/ Dick Cheny plan to prevent Lyn from winning the White House. Bush replaced David Rockefeller and Cheney is Nelson. Lyn is now casting his net on the left. Clinton was "good but flawed" and needed Lyn to help him during the last term to repay him for getting lyn out of prison. Russia is now good. The more it changes the more it stays the same if you are familiar with the whole crazy story from the beginning. You do not see Lyn's son in LYM or the LC, only working on Wall Street. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
Mr. xlcr4life, Wow! That's fantastic!! Some comments: 1. Where did the Gunnarsson article appear? The story outlined in it, telling that Gunnarsson did have an active, deliberate connection to EWP, is contradicted by the police investigation (and Gunnarssons own testimony) according to which his membership was based on him signing a petition for "Make the world a better place for everybody", the signatures of which document were later used for registering EWP for participation in the 1985 general election. However, if it could be verified that Gunnarsson did participate in a 1985 EWP conference, that would indeed be a sensation to the Palme assassination investigation. 2. The assassination plot against Henry Kissinger you refer to, when did that event occur? I am trying to find out when Kissinger became a villain. Was it before of after Nixon had left office? 3. You say "Sweden was always considered a crazy place and we would hears rumours of drug usage and bizarre happenings.". Do these rumours refer to people within the EWP or do they refer to Sweden in general? EWP people using drugs would really be a fun story, Lyn at the time run a furious campaign against Palme for dealing drugs in Sweden. Some years later, the Anti Drug Coalition was formed. 4. The quote "You also insert Lyn into whatever is big in the news and further create delusions of grandeur" is interesting. By those terms, the Palme assassination - although embarrassing for the Swedish branch, implying defections - became an asset. "Look at us, we are important, we are on the news all over the world. Even the Soviets take us seriously!" 5. The Swedish leadership from 1973 to 1986, did they have close contacts with LaRouche? Did you meet them? (I suppose you weren't one of them!) 6. What do you think will happen to the movement when LaRouche dies? Will it survive? Who will become leader? Please, keep the discussion running! | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
On the LaRouche family. xlcr4life writes "You do not see Lyn's son in LYM or the LC, only working on Wall Street." When reading what Dennis King wrote in ~1980 (http://dennisking.org/ourtown5.htm), one finds that young Daniel to some extent was active within the LC: Not surprisingly, support for LaRouche's presidential campaign is evident on all levels of the Computron staff. According to FEC records, 22 employees of the firm including 3 vice presidents, 5 systems analysts, 11 programmers, the office manager, and the staff attorney contributed a total of $6,510 to Citizens for LaRouche between Jan. 1 and Nov. 26, 1979. This was almost 20 percent of all LaRouche campaign funds contributed in New York State during the eleven-month period. And it was followed by additional contributions in December and January, including one from Daniel LaRouche, 22 year old son of the candidate, who works as a programmer in Computron's main office. Is anything more known about young Daniel? | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 118 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Wishful thinking on my part. I mean, wouldn't it be great to have a rational organization promoting classical civilization in school curricula while at the same time promoting scientific and industrial progress and opposing insane wars? A dream devoutly to be wished. But you're right, not out of the ashes of this outfit. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
>...promoting classical civilization >...scientific and industrial progress >...and opposing insane wars Of course! All mine! But I think the problem with a "reform LC" is that the movement can never attract the masses, the movement is clinically free of joy, happiness, appreciation of life, nature, social interaction... I mean, who could possibly be attracted to the (boring, tedious and non-sexy) original proof of the fundamental theorem of algebra (as opposed to the elegant, futuristic, modern ones), if your life and personality is constrained by Soviet-style good citizen dogma? People are irrational, and that is the beauty of being human. And a follow-up to all Ex-Lyns here: When at LC, did you ever have fun? Did you ever laugh? Did you ever enjoy nature? (I do not refer to harmonic averages found in maple leaves.) Music? (I do not refer to recursive equations derived from a Bach fugue) Love? Literature? | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 104 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Mr. SwedeLW, It is Memorial Day weekend here in the US, so I have to answer some of these questions in blocs. The article I posted an exerpt from is web based and is part of a general site on the CIA and other things. I will look for it and post it for you to see the whole article. There many sites like this which all cross pollinate one another. Always take these things with skeptical mind and just look for the facts. Gunnarson did die in North Carolina and Dana Scanlon is also dead, Lyn still lives. Dennis King has several pages of our activities against Kissinger. The securiy guy was a hired outsider named Lee Fick. According to King's book, number two security guy Paul Goldstein questioned Fick about pretty crazy actions against Kissinger. Fick went to NBC and told reporters about this. In our crazy world, the idea of violence was not the issue. In usual fasion, we now made NBC part of the international oligarchy who wants to kill Lyn and of course the usual suspects like The Queen of England, Kissinger, KGB, Knights of Malta , Venetians and Satan were in on it. One of big organising tools was using anti Gay platforms. That is being too nice, we , and that means Lyn was of the extreme homophobic lunacy. We distributed articles by Lyn called "The politics of faggotry" which had Kissinger and our enemies as part of a raging homo cult, hell bent in leather trying to take over the world. One of the nastier things we did was repeatedly distribute leafletts and spread rumours that Kissinger had black mailed people by taping them having sex at the Carlyle hotel with young boys. We then just said that Henry himself was in the videos. Another thing I often heard Lyn screech about at conferences was that Kissinger killed a young Mexican waiter in a Mexican resort by throwing a wine bottle at his head when he spurned advances. This is a sickness of Lyn and the org which was also carried out in our AIDS campaigns. In local races when we were the US Labor Party we would some times paint candidates as child molestors and dope fiends. Read enough about what we did and you will see a pattern of being used by people to harrass and intimidate people. The Kissinger tirade started as we changed from Socialists to now blaming everything in the world on The Jews, Zionist Bankers, Israel and what ever had a Star of David attached to it. Look up "Willis Carto and the Liberty Lobby" to see how what we were meeting with and sharing love fests with. AS far as Danny Larouche goes. Lyn tried to prop him up on stage at a conference, but he did not seem enthusiastic. Danny was a great chess player and never really was part of the org in public sense. Lyn did one of the most despicable things a few years ago to elderly female members who had abortions for the org and were now in menapause. Lyn came into the office and proudly annonced that his son Danny's wife just gave birth and he was a proud grandpa! Quite a few cried in private at what 30 years of this lunacy has led to. You job is not to have fun in the org but to be on and endless tread mill for Lyn. The most cynical thing you would hear back then is what you still hear Lyn and the deadenders tell the LYM today. As you get up at 5 AM to spend time rasing money till midnight, you hear the voice say "Now go have fun!". You can read this travesty many a time and hear it on the LYM website of speeches and transcripts. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 105 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
The guy who wrote this seems to be in Sweden. http://www.skog.de/writers/e0407071.htm Again, take everything with a skeptical mind and just extract facts. The rumours of drug usage in Sweden was by the Swedish org. This all started when the brother of a European leader went to the locals and found people in a rather bizarre state of health. The story I heard was that he quietly left the org and returned to the states and kept his distance from the org. You hear stuff like this years later when someone asks "what happened to so and so". The most common explanation I can think of is starvation. The Germans were pretty well fed as Helga had her bee workers loyal to her while the rest of the org was in extreme poverty. One guy we sent over seas to evade a US Grand Jusy ended up in Italy where he was shocked at how the Italian locals were literally starving and eating group meals of cheap pasta each night. In Weisbaden you had a pecking order of nationalities so that the bulk of money we sent went to Helga for dispersement and the other loclas were on their own. This all gets real murky as we had money shipped around the globe in ways which caused all sorts of rumours. The big story among some of the current members is over who gets what ever money was hidden as Helga and Danny are in line. I myself don't think there is a hidden booty as we were pretty stupid when it came to money. We raised millions and millions and lost everything. Lyn would fall for one security scam after another which siphoned a ton of money from the org. The problem is that Lyn would have the say on where money was sent. In this environment, tremendous funds were siphonjed off in a black hole of security and other schemes which no low level member would know about. There is nothing about the org or Lyn that you can take at face value. Look at current LYM members. They have no clue what goes on and what the history is. A guy like Steve is given a tutorial about this and he thinks that he will be in neo Platonic heaven saving humanity. Most of the ex LYM members leave and wonder what the hell happened to them. They have no clue that Lyn, Helga have a lot of experience running a cult. Phil and Harley have done the same thing for decades to people. Mr Swede, try to read all of the posts here and get a good idea of how this all works. We pretty much have provided a good lesson over the 1,500 or so posts. Ask your self after reading this would you join the org? Yiu see what you may think the org is and what iot really is are very different. People join for their reasons which are not bad. Lyn knows this and will let you believe that as you slowly change. Time and time again you will read about how people change as they stay longer in the org. ExLar should give us some info about LA for people. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
xlcr4life, >Ask your self after reading this would you join >the org? You see what you may think the org is >and what it really is are very different. I've never had the intention of joining the organization! Since the very first time I encountered the org, which must have been in 1978, when I was 12 years old, I have considered them right wing extremists, and I still do. I detest what they pretend to be, and I detest what they really are. However, I'm puzzled by them, their cult, their devotion... And I also wonder how the ex-Lars go on with their lives after leaving the cult. Do they become 100% anti? Or just 50%? Do they still share the ideas, but the egostripping was too intimate, the quotas too high and the meals too disappointing? Would they be interested in a "soft LC"? Do they dream of the good ol' days of 2001 or 1996 or 1991 or 1986 or 1981 or 1976 or 1971? And I also wonder what the old Swedish vanguard thinks today about their past. Superficially, they are successful in their new lives, and they NEVER speak publicly of their past. It's interesting that none of these people mention their past affiliation to LC in their bios, you can never read things like "1973-1986 I wrote for EIR, and then I finished my studies at XYZ university". I know this may not be the forum for such a discussion, and I will withdraw if I'm considered to be out of line by these writings, but this is the only chance I have to get in contact with ex-Lars. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts with you. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
There are no criteria for submission to this forum, so anyone is free to post what they like. As an ex-member, the most salient fact is that I joined with the utmost sincerity (and of course the poorest judgment) until the psychological abuse became intolerable; then there was the shame afterward of having belonged to such a lunatic organization. How does one explain afterwards to sane people that you fought for humanity by joining this bunch? So, best to keep mum on the entire subject. By the way, I regarded myself as a Marxist throughout my entire tenure, although the right-wing stuff was clearly written on the wall by the time of my exit. Just another human predicament where one chooses to believe in something in the face of all evidence to the contrary and finding out too late that things were quite otherwise. If you wish to understand this behavior further, it's probably best to read up in the refereed literature on cults generally. The ICLC is no different than the Moonies or Scientologists, except less successful at recruitment. | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 106 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Mr.SwedeLW, When people join the org it is with a higher purpose in mind. They also are recruited by another member, not Larouche. The members will have a way of making things seem logical and believable to others during a sales pitch or recruitment. Lyn rarely does the recruiting as you have a Wizard of Oz type of mystique built up. In fact, one the ideas you pick up reading these posts is how often we had to hide Lyn from the public as he would spin out of control and end up looking like the pscycho he is. A lot of memebrs dropped out of the research and intel sections of the org when they either met Lyn in person privately or went on a meeting with their contact and Lyn and saw him go nuts and destroy all of your work in a single half hour. A lot of these people were pretty smart and those who had some education used their contacts to get jobs or return to school and then find work in a field that interests them. Considering how crazy this whole thing is, would you advertise this to a future employer? The real sad cases are the people who left late in life and have no support structure of parents or relatives to help them. The trek back to productivity is long as you left with a huge debt and vital years stolen from you. If you are a female, you must throw having children into that mix if you leave very late in child bearing years. Most of the people whom I know are doing quite well and rebounded after starting from scratch. Now this is very unscientific as I only know successful ex LCers. In the org it seems that the people you knew who were somewhat flaky and had no where to go, stayed in and are now just a burden on the cash flow. In real life, no one really knows about the org as time goes on. There are so many things in peoples lives that Lyn is a speck and the org is a dot. The biggest hang up I found among ex members is that you have this voice in your head that the person you are meeting after leaving knows about the org. They do not and you begin to see how your head was filled up with lunacy the longer you were in. | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
As far as ex memebrs being anti org, remember this is a cult they left. No one wishes to be associated with a cult like this in public. Especially if you have a family. Most people who have an interest in the org do so anonymously in a place like this or justiceforjeremiah.com The good news is that through the web, so much info about the cult is available that I find an endless supply of blogs and web based discussions which have any Larouche source quickly discredited and shown the door. A site like this is then very valuable in that even if you never see another ex member opine here, the wealth of material here is pretty vast. I would encourage any ex LC or LYM to offer experiences and insights as it will be usefull in encouraging people to run as fast as possible away from the cult, except Steve Rendon of course. At one point, some people may feel that they are in some thing which is mysterious and of a behind the scenes cloak and dagger adventure. If that interests you then forget this lunacy and get a job with one of the intell services and make a career of it. If you like math and science you see an explosion in knowledge every day with inventions and ideas. In the LYM you will be doubling the square with Sky until his teeth fall out thirty years from now in your 15th apt ready to be evicted into your 16th. There is no basis for a "Soft LC". This was and is a cult of personality for Lyn since day one. I can't tell you names, but there are plenty of ex members who left and do extremely important work in many fields. The one thing their LC experience taught them was to be able to sniff out lunacy and cultish behaviour in a second. It is like having another sense so to speak. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
Sancho and Excelsior, Thank you so much for your posts. Sad to hear about all the youngsters thinking they change the world by doubling the square... Why not go to school and eventually become taxpayers instead? Anyway, I wonder about the way members live. Is it commonly so, that members share apartments? When studying the Palme murder investigation, the fact that several EWP:ers shared appartments surfaces. (Thereby they could deliver mutual alibis!) These people were at the time 35-40 years old and definitely no longer poor students. Is this a general pattern for the movement globally? Do activsts work full time for the party, or was/is it possible for them to pursue a career and be activists in evenings and weekends? | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 108 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Mr. SwedeLW, The word "activists" can't be used in the same sentence when discussing the org. After leaving the org I worked with various activists on issues of schools, racial relations and other issues. Activists have a definative goal which includes actual legislation and solutions to real problems. You go back and forth over policies in communities and have debate over possible solutions. The cult has only Lyn as an agenda and will begin and end every sentence with Larouche. Even a rationale beginning to a problem will quickly be nothing but a vehicle for shouting about Larouche. The org paid a few thousand to get their own Dem club, but it will be a Larouche fan club with lip service where needed. If you talk to the members who were in the beginnings of the org on college campuses you get the impression that it was not so cultish and had a lot of dissenting opnion. Lyn ended all of that and consolidated everything once 1973 or so began which caused some early members of SDS Labor Committee to leave and denounce Lyn as a meglomaniac of sort. The general consensus is that Lyn really went wacky when Lyn's next wife Carole dumped him for a 26 year old Englishman named Chris White. The whole insanity began full time with brain washing plots, CIA plots and the org in a continual pace of hysteria, run by Lyn. Lyn announced that this is no longer a debating society and we need to take world power. Operation Mop began, and Lyn started a youth movement of ghetto kids called RYM or Revolutionary Youth Movement. Rym was supposed to be the muscle to beat our oponents. Instead, the youth usually beat up and stole and in a few cases raped our members. Most people at that time had some part time job and had room mates or sorts. A big thing we did was to get our people laid off and collect unemployment insurance for the full term. You usually lived in a bad part of town and like a bohemian. A member who had a job usually paid the rent while a parade of members came and went. We also had people skip out on student loans and move around getting utilities in their names and then skipping town. In NYC members could make good money doing typestting part time and most National office people worked like that. When Lyn began his presidency march we had people quit their jobs and recieve some type of minimal stipend if they made enough money. Occasionally you had "problem" members with emotional problems or nervous breakdowns. Those people we sent to NYC and they worked in out printing press operation until they were just dumped. In the 1980's we raised enough money that you could have a lot of people on stipend, but, Lyn needed money more and more as his and Helga's tastes got more refined and expensive. Members were reduced to 5 bucks a day for a long time and people were skipping out on loans, rents and utilities. We would spend enough money for one week of Lyn and Helga at a Park Ave hotel to pay for a few months of rent for members. One reason you need members on stipend is too make them more dependent on the org. Almost all of the members in the National office who left in the 1980's had side jobs which meant that they would interact with regular people. In certain cases we had problem spouses so they would be employed in our computer or typesetting companies. If they were getting better, we could shift them to fundraising or other things. If they were still on the outs, then we could at least use them as low paid help for the businesses. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
xlcr4life, you are so full of inside info. It's really awesome talking to somebody who really was there when it all happened! >Lyn ended all of that and consolidated everything once 1973 >or so began which caused some early members of SDS Labor Committee >to leave and denounce Lyn as a meglomaniac of sort. There must have been some kind of coup?? This year, 1973, was the year the LC came to Sweden. Is that a coincidence, or did the coup trigger/make place for an international ambition? >In certain cases we had problem spouses so they would be employed >in our computer or typesetting companies. If they were getting better, >we could shift them to fundraising or other things. If they were still >on the outs, then we could at least use them as low paid help for the >businesses. This computer business, is that Computron? The company still exists, and some of the executives has Greek name that resemble names found i Kings writings in Our Town on the LC:s in the 70's. Is there still a connection between Computron and Lar? Who owns the stock of Computron? Also, while at it, you mention problem spouses. I gather this alludes to non-member spouses of members. It must also have existed problem children, that is, allready existing non-abortable children. What happened to these children? Finally, another trace: Why did the LC never come to Finland? Did you try to establish the movement in Finland, or was the country deemed less susceptible to holomorphic neutron Beethoven-economy than Sweden and Denmark? | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 109 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
You have to look at how this whole thing works in total. Lyn is after a cult of psychophants, not activism. The closest we came to when I was in was a bill in support of Fusion power by Cong. Mike McCormack. We would claim to be gathering support for increased funding of fusionn power. What happened was that we figured out that a lot of money could be raised using the FEF front group. So we set up card table shrines at as many airports as possible and told people that money was going for lobbying for nuclear energy. In reality, the money went into one big pot and diverted where needed. Part of the exodus of people at FEF was over shenanigans in money according to some. Lyn had a famous memo where he basically said that the only reason to have any front group was to put him into power. We raised millions of anti drug work and did the same thing. "Give us money to fight drugs". Their money did go to publish a book called Dope In which featured the protocals of Zion in one edition. In every case we raise money and did not send out subscruiptions. Lyn would say it was becuase of the ADL. The post office said ot was because we did not pay postage. In the early 1980's Lyn had the whole Detroit region and other members comprising a hundred or so leave him. It was after this event that the cult of personality was doubled so to speak. After that, one would notice how intense the org hysteria was also doubling. The lesson in all of this is that you are not dealing with an outfit like the AARP where you sign up, get a newsletter and support or oppose legislation. Everything was, is and will allways be for Lyn. You job as a member is to do that around the clock and be so busy that you have no time for even thinkiing about what you are doing. If you have a supporter who can't join, then your job is to get as much money as possible. Your living conditions are designed to minimise the expense of your existance while your job is to maximise income. The LYM are in a game Lyn has played for years and years. The older members are denounced as "Boomers" and as the reason Lyn is not in power. The lym had a few months of being sent around the country and being Lyn;s rent a mob. Now, the LYM have to make the money to save humanity to replace the last few generations of memebrs who are burnt out and too expensive in upkeep. Another trick Lyn does is to make the members feel like worthles trash asking for money to eat. Your problems are nothing since Lyn was facing hourly assasination threats and was "a virtual prisoner" according to the memos he would send us. So besides the threat of nuclear war, the collapse of the economy and the end of civilization as we know it, who the hell are you to ask for your stipend? Now keep in mind that Lyn is writing this in places like his W58th st Penthouse, the Sutton Place townhouse, a castle in Germany or a five star hotel in between. Lyn and Helga had to click glasses of Rheingau knowing that a bum like Phil would throw members out in the street to send money for Lyn. Even after the "Jew Jokes" were making the rounds, Phil, Debbie, Larry and Harley would take the gold out of members teeth if they could. Phil was well known as a guy who had his regional members call parents about dental problems so they could get some cash. The final bit of lunacy Mr. SwedeLW is the constant reminder by Lyn to the members that he was in the same league as Jesus Christ facing the imminent death. This basically squared the Socrates death analogies for members. If you never saw this article, please ask. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 85.225.78.173 |
Maybe I was too hasty... It seems that Computron went out of business in the 90's? Anyway, my question is still valid. What was the connection between Computron and LaRouche after 1980? | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 110 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Computron recieved support from Wang I believe. We had people in the org whose spouses worked in Computron doing work. Dennis King has a chapter on the workings in his web site where he reprints his Our Town series from the 1980's. Go to chapter 12 for the series. http://dennisking.org/ourtown5.htm#compu There is a lot of murkiness with Computron and Lyn. We used computers at Computron for org work in setting up intell files on people and cross referencing them with other people and things. Computron also processed our mailing lists and fundraising lists for elections and in house work that required sorting of info. The murky part starts over the management of company finances and Lyn of course. Lyn's version is that the org funneled millions into Computron in an attempt to save it. Some of the people who left when the Detroit region left say that the battle was over how much money Lyn was ordering out of the business for his wacky spending. In the end, like every entity that the world's greatest economist has his fingers in, it goes belly up. One thing to note about the King Our Town series is that most members had no idea of what we were doing until they read "Our Town". There were a lot of inter office personel betwenn Computron and the Fusion Energy Foundation. When similar financial hijinks began in FEF, people there left. Lyn would denounce the person as evil and then we would have a dossier on how he or she was in cahoots with the ADL or some other enemy. An FEF star named Eric Lerner had a dispute over a patent and he left to a similar refrain. You can find some of his books on physics and space in book stores. Computron pretty much dissolved with some people staying with Lyn and most leaving. When we moved to Leesburg we relocated the printing and typesetting operations. Out current computer people have a company called Levitt and James in Leesburg which produces legal software and regular contributions to Lyn's campaigns from employees. The big secret in the late 1990's was a computer firm started by a former member I think who had quite a run during the tech boom. When Lyn mentions "Winstar" he is referring to a company which on paper was supposedly worth hundreds of millions. From the people who were in Leesburg it seems that Lyn had his chops licking for a piece of that, until the Tech boom collapsed and a few big money companies in telecom pulled out. This all gets wrapped up in his diatribes on "Boomers" in the org who did not produce the money he and Helga are accustomed to. If anyone out there thinks that this sounds crazy, well, you are right. The whole Bizarro world has different layers of dead enders waiting to pass away, boomers ready to be dumped, NC's ready to extract every penny from LYMers who have no idea what hit them and a few jabronis in the local office who think they are going somewhere. xlcr4life@hotmail.com (Message edited by xlcr4life on May 28, 2006) | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 111 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Here is an exerpt from "PublicEye" about Computron. Corporate Shenanigans 5) According to numerous court records and internal NCLC documents, large sums of money were funneled from Computron Technologies Corporation, a computer software firm owned for many years by NCLC members, into the NCLC coffers. In early 1981, Computron filed for Chapter 11 reorganization under federal bankruptcy laws. Internal memos of NCLC also in 1981 reflect a bitter struggle between Computron owners and LaRouche. LaRouche claimed Computron's founder had embezzled vast sums from the 1980 LaRouche Presidential campaign. In reply, the Computron founder strongly implied that the cash flow had been in the opposite direction, and threatened to spill the beans before a grand jury. The alleged looting of Computron is under investigation by the Computron Creditors Committee under the jurisdiction of the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York. (In Re World Composition Services, Inc. v. Computron Technologies Corporation) (File no. 81-5121-A / 81 B 10477 JL) The Court records make for fascinating reading. ******************************************** The era this was occuring was our 1980 New Hampshire campaign. We sent virtually the entire org to New Hampsjire for the primary and everyone bet the ranch on Lyn making a large vote total. In the final analysis, Lyn was pretty much nuts and the voters recognised that. Lyn did the usual thing and declare that we were robbed by vote fraud. The Computron angle comes in because we were sending a lot of money to New Hampshire. In the middle of this we got invovled with some alleged gangster/scammer from Michigan who promised us that for the right amount of money, he could deliver the vote through various means. I would hear this along with other people and and hear the oohs and ahhs from members who thought this was a sign that the "Gods of Olympus" were recognising that Larouche is right and adopt our policies! This came a few months after Lyn tells the members that he will lead a military coup against Jimmy Carter by patriotic Generals and Intell people. It all turned out to be another scam done against Lyn by people who knew what to say to him and gullible, star struck security people. We would hear stories back in our local offices that if it wasn't for the sell out of the Greek mafia who did not send money, that lyn would have won the primary. In retrospect, just writing this crap shows how silly I and other were back then. No wonder I quickly left the bizarro world. Any talk about Computron quickly died after the Detroit split as Lyn and Will Wertz discovered another way to make money xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| borisbad Junior Member Username: borisbad Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.239.131.23 |
Actually swede-lar-w, the earliest schism was when a leader named Steve Fraser, who was possibly second in command to LaRouche, along with Tony Papert, Carol White and Ed and Nancy Spannaus formed a new group I remember being called the Socialist Labor Party. He led a split with LaRouche around 1972, with some other interesting people like Paul Milkman and Bob Dillon (not Bob Dylan). The basic tenet of his movement was that with the proper technocratic program you could create the basis for a revolutionary movement (that's when we were still calling ourselves revolutionary socialists). Lyn argued (in those days he would actually have to defend his positions) that the true basis for revolution was the class-for-itself as opposed to the class-in-itself. Roughly speaking he espouse that the working class would have to take the lead of other sections of society (like welfare moms for instance, and for a while farm workers), and abandon ordinary trade union concerns. This was probably the last major split where there were actual alleged doctrinal issues until the infamous Fred Newmans CFC(something like Center for Change) joined for a time and then split to form another group which later took over the Independent Party in NY through their candidate Lolana Fulani have been a factor in NY elections including ironically with the Bloomberg Administration (Michael Bloomberg is both a billionaire and Jewish so it is hard to see why he might look to the votes of the so-called Independence Party. For more on the ties of the IWP (Int'l Workers Party according to Fred Newman although the LaRouchies liked to refer to them as Intercourse With Pets) see following link. http://www.publiceye.org/newman/nap4.html | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 112 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
One of the hardest things for members to understand is how dog gone crazy they appear to normal people. When you are in Bizarro world around the clock, your social functions and ability to interact with people suffers immensely. The LYM, as well as every previous incarnation which Lyn rounds up are usually oblivious to how they come across to people. There is an endless supply of encounters people have with LYM which make their way into the web. One of the funniest is from the site ditzydemocrats. We had Lyn mentioned quite a few times in episodes of the Simpsons and Saturday night live. In the 1981 movie spoof "Airplane" the last cultist encountered in the airport terminal says "Help us support Nuclear power" or something like that. That is based on how we at one time had hundreds of clean cut members witrh card table shrines at airports around the country. This is pretty long and funny, so it will be in several parts. xlcr4life http://www.ditzydemocrats.blogspot.com/ Monstrosity Thursday, February 16, 2006 Kristen and I Meet a LaRouchie (Part 1 of 2) ...and it doesn't go too well. Cross posted from my DailyKos account, from late January. Ah, Lyndon LaRouche. For those of you who haven't heard of him, he's an 83 year old, who has no formal qualifications, but has run for President in every election since 1980. He publishes articles, brochures and newsletters on the evils of whatever the current administration happens to be. For the current administration, he's working on a series that he calls "Children of Satan." Ouch. Kristen and I ran into a couple in January and had fun talking to them. Part two, which is obviously forthcoming, details my own encounter with them on my college campus. `Twas a bright, warm sunny day. After lunch, Kristen and I were wandering down the street, window-shopping. In front of us, one on each side of the street, were card tables with handwritten signs proclaiming, "Impeach Cheney!" We looked at each other. This w as different. I realized quickly though, having run into these people before, that they were the dreaded political species known as LaRouchians. Kristen, however, had not heard of them, and I quickly filled her in on some of the things I both knew and had only vaguely heard of. One thing that I knew was true was the death of Jeremiah Duggan, who was at a LaRouche Youth Movement meeting in Germany, and ran into a busy road, and was killed. LaRouche spokespeople said that the death was a suicide. Others says although Duggan's death may have been a suicide, the LaRouche Youth Movement was using mind control techniques on the young man to force him to stay in the movement, and he saw no other means of escape. Other rumors included the statement from a former government teacher: "Stay away from them, they're all crazy," and, also from the aforementioned government teacher, "I read somewhere that they believe in alien landings or something." While a google search for "La R ouche + aliens" turned up...well, frankly, junk and conspiracy theory websites, the truth may still be out there. Or not. It made for good shtick later though, as you will see. The LaRouchian, an elderly man, who later proclaimed about thirty times that he was a farmer from South Dakota, approached us. He asked us, "What do you think of Samuel Alito?" I wasn't really interested, and started to blow the guy off, (Starbucks was calling me, what can I say?) but Kristen quickly drew me into a game of "ask hard questions then ask harder ones, while pretending to be confused." | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 113 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
An important question, and a very important issue in today's society is gay marriage. So, Kristen asked the LaRouchian where LaRouche stood on gay marriage. The man's eyes bugged out. He stepped away from us and burst out in an angry rage, "That's BULLSHIT!" We blinked. We stepped away. We were planning on backing away slowly. No sudden movements. The man went into a tirade about how "gay marriage is NOT an issue. It isn't. That's the problem, you people are focusing on these issues and they're not issues. The issues are not important." Thus enlightened, Kristen persisted. "So, does he think gay people should be allowed to marry?" The man narrowed his eyes, and I quickly changed the topic. "Well, I heard that some guy got killed while at one of your youth movements." The man blustered, "No. That's absolutely unfounded. Where did you hear that?" "The Washington Post. It was a while ago, but they did this big thing about it." "Well, um," he floundered, then rebounded, "that liberal rag," as he called another elderly man over, also a LaRouchian. "Bob, what's this about some kid getting killed?" "Um," the other elderly LaRouchian pondered. "Oh yes! An operative of Cheney and his administration killed him because the right wing hates us. See," he proceeded to go into some nonsense about how Cheney is the son of Satan. I yawned. Kristen yawned, and was handed a pamphlet, entitled, "Son of Satan IV." "That would make a great horror movie title," I commented. The South Dakotan farmer ignored me, and spoke only to Kristen, encouraging her to read it. Kristen said, "Oh, look! Hitler! Are you saying that Cheney is the reincarnation of Hitler?" "They tried that with Tim Kaine, " I answered for the LaRouchian, "It didn't work." The LaRouchian ignored me, explaining that Cheney was worse that Hitler and then started talking about the Holocaust. Kristen interrupted him. "Excuse me, but I don't care because Hitler is dead. He's no longer affecting me. Why do I care?" A woman waiting to cross the street at the corner we were at giggled before walking rather quickly across the street. "Well, you should care!" the LaRouchian said indignantly. "That's the problem with youth today. You have to be involved." "But I am involved. The two of us ran a political activism club, and volunteered for several Democrats running for office." "Yeah, and they all won too, unlike this LaRouche guy," I muttered. The LaRouchian did not hear me, I think. "Anyways, you still haven't told me where he stands on anything, and you still haven't told me why I should vote for him for President. Convince me. Go ahead." Kristen grinned. "Well, first off, LaRouche is not running for President. He is eighty-three years old and can't do that anymore. But he is still an activist and is running this PAC. He's more like a man in his 60s" Kristen replied, "Yeah, so's my grandmother but I wouldn't vote for that lady. Tell me where he stands on foreign policy." "That's a good question," the LaRouchian replied. "You see, I was out there before 9/11 at Georgetown University, the week before it happened, warning people. We were the only ones who saw it coming. We were warning people that operatives of Cheney would do that! We need to get out and convince people and get to the youth working on the Hill." | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 114 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
"So...Dick Cheney blew up the Pentagon," I said skeptically. "NOO!" he replied vehemently. "I'm not saying it was Dick Cheney himself, but it was his operatives. Anyways, LaRouche is very progressive. In fact, he's a Roosevelt." "A Roosevelt?" I asked. (Please note that I've lived in the DC area my entire life. I know the Roosevelt family history pretty well) "Which side- Teddy's or F.D.R's? Because, that was two different sides of the family, they even pronounced their last---" The farmer burst into my enlightening and scholarly comment on the Roosevelt family. "FDR, of COURSE!!" "Well, no need to get so sniffy," I thought and started to say, "Well, you know, this is the DC area. How do you know I don't work on the Hill?" but Kristen stopped me. To make a long story short, we ran out of amusing things to ask. The two men asked for names and email addresses so that we could join them. Kristen and I looked at each other, and promptly gave fake names and email addresses. They then asked for money. We said we were in college and poor. They asked if we had spare change. We told them we had no money whatsoever and walked off with barely constrained amusement. Mulling the incident over at Starbucks, we came up with some questions that we should have asked. I put them here for your amusement: "What happens when LaRouche dies?"(answered in part two!) "Am I being punk'd?? No, seriously, where's the camera?" " Where does he stand on the War on Christmas?"(answered in part two!) If LaRouche supported it; we would have rejoined with, "Why do you hate the Jews so??" "Will he legalize marijuana?" "FDR married a distant cousin of his. You may know her as "Eleanor Roosevelt." Now, did LaRouche marry a distant cousin of his? Where does he stand on cousin-marriage?" (answered in part two!) "Why should I have given you a dollar? What do you use the money for? I mean, your signs are handwritten. What's up with that?" We would then give them a suspicious look and say, "Are you buying marijuana?" "I've heard you all believe in aliens. My question to you all is, if an alien abducts you and you receive some kind of medical care or probing or whatever, would LaRouche let you bill that to Medicare? Is that insured?" and the one thing that would have ended this debacle much earlier. * In response to the original question of "What do you think of Samuel Alito?" .... "I'm very proud of my uncle Samuel, as is the rest of the family." Our conclusion, you ask for? Obviously, that Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert would have handled the situation with far more wit, humor and grace. Also, they would have filmed it and made some money off it. more to come xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 115 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Alas, the fun that is Melissa + Kristen + LaRouche volunteer is just too freakin' long to be put into only two entries. I tried to edit it down, but I couldn't just cut out the hilarity. Ok, the semi-hilarity. Long story short, I'm putting it up in two entries, both posted today, but in managable chunks instead of a novel. Chapters, if you will. The moment you’ve all been waiting for- LaRouche Part Deux! Please keep in mind that a LaRouchian came to my Microeconomics 306 class two days before this incident, stirred up some arguments that didn’t make much sense and then never appeared again. I met him again… during episode 2. (He’s not the one I talked to though. Just to clarify). Guy #1 stopped me, asking me if I had heard of LaRouche. Ooh. Wrong thing to ask me. I replied in the affirmative and then explained how I had met a South Dakotan farmer- without going into the crazy, "Gay marriage is bullshit and you are a tool of capitalist s ociety!" bits. I then asked Guy #1 a rather rational question, in my humble opinion. "What," I asked, "happens when LaRouche dies? I mean, he's really old. Will you disband?" Guy #1 laughed and said, "Oh, that depends on how strong we are. If our youth movement is strong enough, we will prevail after he dies and carry on his message." Me: "So, you're disbanding." He starting flinging economic buzzwords that don't mean anything at me, and I deflected them with a simple, "I'm an Econ major." I'm not, but I do have 12 credits of econ under my belt as my electives in my management major. Woo. I then explained how awful the South Dakotan farmer was to me, and Guy #1 sighed, saying "He's one of our old, senile ones. You know, that could have been prevented. LaRouche is 83, and he's really sharp because he challenges his mind everyday." Me: "As in, `You can prevent senility by doing a puzzle or something daily.'" Guy #1: "Well, not a crossword puzzle but by challenging your mind." Me: "You can change your genetics by challenging your mind." Guy #1 (huffily) : "Alzheimer's isn't the same as senility." Me: "I never said that. However, we do know that senility cannot always be prevented by thinking a lot." | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 116 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Guy #1 moved on with some nonsense about FDR and how JFK was killed by operatives of the neo-conservative movement. The Neo-cons, he also wanted me to know, are really Nazis in disguise. Just F.Y.I. I saw my opportunity to ask another question. "The South Dakotan farmer said that LaRouche was related to FDR." Guy #1: "He has the same ideologies." Me: "That's so totally not what I asked you." Guy #1 : "Oh, you mean, are they related?" Me: "Yeah." Guy #1: "No, they're not." Me: "The ••••••• lied to me!" Guy #1: "What do you mean?" Me: "The farmer- he said they were cousins! And I wanted to ask if LaRouche married a distant cousin of his because that's what Franklin did too." Guy #1: "WHAT ?" Me: "Oh, you didn't know that?" Guy #1: "Well, the guy that told you that was completely senile then." Me: "You know, I find it hard to take you seriously when you are not only giving me vastly different information than he did and then you belittle him. It's really unprofessional." Guy #1: "What did he tell you?" Me: "He said that gay marriage is bullshit." Guy #1: "Well, what he meant was that the problem is that you can't focus on the issues like that. You have to look at the big picture- gay marriage is not important." Me: "Why do you hate civil rights so?" Guy #1: "Why are you so fixated on gay marriage?" Me: `I am fixated because people are being denied their civil rights because they're gay and you can't move on to the entire picture when you've got a government that is denying the small issues. Why? Would it bother you if I were a lesbian?" (Which, for the record, I am not.) Guy #1 moved on to inform me that the dollar is going to collap se within the year, and the US cannot support itself and we're all DOOMED. For the edification of the world, I include a link to an economics editorial from the Post here. I know it’s good and sound, not only because we all know that I’m a freakin’ rock star genius, but because my super Macroeconomics 311 professor discussed it in class and said that it was a very clear, forthright and easy to understand explanation of the issue. So there, LaRouche! Yeah, what? Part Trés is coming. We make some startling conclusions about Satanism, Judaism, evolution and The Ditzy Democrats have successfully demonstrated what "The Larouche organising method" really is. This stuff would make a hilarous play for a theater group. Still more to come. | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
suppose that reading Part One also would be a pre-requisite. I'll pretend that everyone actually did read it though and go straight into the dramatic conclusion of The LaRouche Files. *Insert overly dramatic, soap-opera-esque music here* I asked who LaRouche would be likely to support for President and Guy #1 got a bit miffed and then finally sputtered, "Well, see, that's not really the point here- but he'd support Hilary. You know, the Clintons called in LaRouche to help Kerry's campaign...LaRouche ran their campaign basically, he turned it around and if he had been there from the beginning, Kerry would have won." Other gems: We somehow started talking about science and evolution. I promise these are all true quotes from Guy #1. "You have to believe in God to be a real, serious scientist." "Evolution is probably not true at all." "All teachers in today's universities, but especially science teachers are fascists be cause they teach in a Newtonian fashion- we can't study effects and say that they're causes and just memorize facts." (Ironically, most of MY professors in the 3 long years I've been in college were Socratic methoders.) "I don't think you're taking me seriously." (Really? My, my, the boy did have a brain cell!) I told Guy #1 at this point that if LaRouche wasn't being supported, he should try another field. I pointed to "Children of Satan IV" as an example of how LaRouche would rock as a fiction writer or as a horror film director. Guy #1 didn't find this funny. "Do you know what Satanism even is?" he asked angrily. "Cheney is a Satanist. Hitler was a Satanist." Ah. Thanks, bro. That's helpful. Now, Kristen was not there, because she goes to a different university than I do. I had to be the Jew in the situation in her absence, therefore, and because I am, according to Kristen, second-hand Jew anyways, I told Guy #1 that I found him offensive to my inherent Jew-ness . I got tired of talking to Guy #1 and started lying to him 100% of the time, pretending to be a Republican right wing nut job (think Ann Coulter, but more so) who was really spying on him. I don't remember exactly what I said, something about health care not being that important and that if he was so into evolution, he shouldn’t either because the fittest would survive. The poor guy's eyes bulged. "Are you lying to me?" he asked. "No," I lied. "Why would I do that?" (Because it's fun...) "If you're a Jew, you should care! I mean, that's how Hitler took over, you know! You sound like Cheney!" "I would like to be a dictator. I think I'd do a damn fine job." Silence from Guy #1. I continued. "In fact, I think I will. I mean, all this about economics, I know my theory well enough--" I was interrupted. "Theory doesn't work in the real world!" I lost it and laughed at him for a full minute straight. We argued in that sort of me pretending to be a Republ ican and saying outrageous things that no one could possibly believe ("Sure, let humanity rot!"). | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 118 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
This stuff is priceless from the ditzydemocrats. You have to understand that what Lyn often does is reshape events to fit the desired conspiracy of the month. One common one liner you often hear Lyn do on low budget AM radio stations and kook web sites is this line: Announcer: How did you get out of prison? Lyn: Bush got me in and Clinton got me out. Never mind that several states during the Reagan years were busy fielding complaints from people who lost hundreds of thousand of dollars in Larouche promisorry notes (We promise to pay you, oops, we are sorry we can't pay you). I'm still chuckling over how Clinton asked Lyn to run the Kerry campaign. anyways, back to the ditzydemocrats. *********************************************** Other things I learned: The LaRouchian that came to my Econ class? His whole job with the LaRouche movement was to go to econ and government classes at universities, stir up arguments and then talk to people after class to get them to join the LaRouche movement. The next day, for example, I walked into Econ 306, and on every single desk was a LaRouche brochure. It looked like the professor had distributed them, but of course, he hadn’t. A guy in the class stacked them up on a table in the room- we wouldn’t just toss them, but we made it obvious when el professor waltzed in that they were left there. The professor’s reaction: “That’s really dishonest.” It was. A lot of people walking in were asking, “Oh, do you want us to read these?” The ending is rather boring actually, because I just left him standing there. Actually, I saw a friend of mine and ran off with him, leavin g the LaRouchian yelling at my back that I "can't run from the truth!" I wasn't running from the truth, I was running from the anti-truth. However, let us draw some conclusions. The LaRouchians are unorganized. They obviously hate each other. They are dishonest. They are slimy. They are poorly trained/brainwashed. They don’t like free trade. They like to lie. They can’t keep their stories straight. Extrapolating from this, they have no respect for the very people that they are trying to recruit, if they sneak into classes, and drop information on people in a back handed way that makes it look like it was distributed by the professor or by the university. This is dirty, dirty politics and it is the kind of thing that creates people like my and Kristen’s new friend, Willis, who hates canvassing, politics and people. And, according to Willis, lots of people hate him. And that's sad. To paraphrase Stephen Colbert, so sayeth Melissa. posted by Melissa at 1:46 PM In a related story: I recieved a call from my sister in San Francisco a month or two ago because she had just talked to a Larouchian. I made her go back, get her $5 she gave to the guy to shut up and rip out the piece of paper the guy had written her email address down on. She now knows to stay the hell away from those people. By Sean Holihan, at 9:45 AM Melissa, you pretended to be a Jew! The Jewish community probably hates you, but I don't. I know you did it because I wasn't there. Awesome. To Sean Holihan: uber-excellant advise that you gave to your sister. By Kristen, at 4:22 PM xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 120 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Scary to think I used to sound like that, I suppose. On the other hand, I never really fell for much of the conspiracy crap so tried to stick to issues - issues which I did not know well, so the net effect was the same. And those millennarian hand-made signs used to give me the creeps, too. But I ignored every instinct towards good sense I had because I so wanted to get all my answers and my certitude from just one source. | ||
| swedish_lyn_watcher New member Username: swedish_lyn_watcher Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 217.211.62.138 |
Glad to see you folks postin' here again. I return to my previous question: Finally, another trace: Why did the LC never come to Finland? Did you try to establish the movement in Finland, or was the country deemed less susceptible to holomorphic neutron Beethoven-economy than Sweden and Denmark? | ||
| kheris Member Username: kheris Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.21.167.63 |
XLCR - that is hilarious! I hope I am that together if I run into a card table shrine. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 121 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.42 |
I was too low level to get into policy discussions about why and where the ICLC planted itself. My impression is that they set up locals wherever they had one or two fanatical supporters. No strategy at all. Perhaps the Finns are thus saner than the Americans, Germans, and Swedes. | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
well, ditzy democrats is about right, i'd say... ongoing wars in iraq and afghanistan, with another one threatening in iran, and these imbeciles have gay marriage on the top of their christmas wish list?...i'm no larouchie, but i don't know what would be worse: being locked up in a room with larouchies, or with ditzy democrats...and, for what it's worth, larouche may be a " conspiracy theorist ", but does anyone here actually believe the official account of what happened on 9/11?...i don't agree with larouche's take - he says it was an attempted coup - but at least he's understood all along that segments of the u.s. government had a role in the attacks...and it is true that soon after bush took office larouche warned of a reichstag fire type event...give credit where credit is due...i can well understand the cynicism of former members...but not all of larouche's " popularity " can be attributed to mind control or brainwashing...the man and the organization have always had some interesting things to say, and have even taken courageous and unpopular stands on issues - i've been following them for over 20 years and i know what i'm talking about...and it's total crap to link them with the ufo crowd...if only they'd get my EIR to me on time...and dispense with larouche's essays... | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 122 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
(1) a stopped clock tells the time correctly twice a day; (2) the SWP, Pee Wee Herman, and a root canal are each more "popular" than LaRouche; I was there: if you stand at a card-table shrine long enough you become so inured to your own uselessness and insignificance that you begin to imagine anyone who walks by with a pulse is a perfervid LaRouche supporter. | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
sancho, the stopped clock remark is exactly the kind of thing i was referring to when i asked that credit be given where credit is due...larouche was talking about a reichstag fire type event occurring before 9/11 took place...and though, after the fact, a close reading of the PNAC documents makes such a speculation plausible, i can't think of anyone who was saying it before 9/11...with the notable exception of alex jones,another so-called " conspiracy theorist "...have any democratic notables yet come out and said that elements of this administration were behind 9/11?...outside of cynthia mckinney, another one who's dismissed as a kook...or, to take a more recent example, look at hillary clinton's proposals to save the auto industry - issued months after larouche was addressing the same thing...a stopped clock may be right twice a day, but would you use it to tell time?...larouche is, and has been for many years, ahead of the curve on many ssues...that's why i've paid attention to the organization...i don't have to think too hard to mention instances where's he been way off - like the perpetually impending doom of the apocalyptic financial crash that he's been trumpeting for as long as i can remember...i've learned enough about the organization through reading the postings on this site to look at members with a sympathy that their frequent nastiness would not seem to deserve...but the refusal to give a tip of the hat to larouche when he happens to be right about something, is exactly the kind of mind set that made me sympathetic to, and interested in larouche in the first place, and defeats your own purpose... | ||
| kheris Member Username: kheris Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.72.96.209 |
The ability of the organization to mine existing data in order to arrive at their 'predictions' is known. There are companies that do it for a living. There is at least one company doing it on contract for parts of the government, as well as other businesses. They do a better job attracting and retaining analysts with the needed skill sets and they aren't worrying about spin or elections. I personally think LHL got lucky. This government has demonstrated its incompetence more than once. I have a difficult time imagining that it ever had the ability to pull off 9/11. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 123 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.42 |
The issue is not whether LaRouche is a Cassandra - the issue is that he operates a criminal enterprise wrapped in a cult of personality about himself. Hitler, too, was "right" about many things: so what? I always feel embarassed for Lyn when at the age of eighty-three he still must go on about being "right" - what would impress me is if, before he dies, he ever develops the humility to admit he was wrong about even one thing, especially the way he manipulated and otherwise maltreated people loyal to him, like me. | ||
| sancho Intermediate Member Username: sancho Post Number: 124 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 199.50.29.42 |
The issue is not whether LaRouche is a Cassandra - the issue is that he operates a criminal enterprise wrapped in a cult of personality about himself. Hitler, too, was "right" about many things: so what? I always feel embarassed for Lyn when at the age of eighty-three he still must go on about being "right" - what would impress me is if, before he dies, he ever develops the humility to admit he was wrong about even one thing, especially the way he manipulated and otherwise maltreated people loyal to him, like me. | ||
| xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 67.191.29.74 |
Mr. SwedeLW, we only go where we can find recruits or money. Many times, we would meet somebody at an airport card table shrine who was realted or freindly with some big wig in another country. The business card would go to the National office for follow up and money calls. You start with selling and EIR sub and then see what makes the person tick and figure out how the org can make an inroad out of that. What ever is in the news would also set the direction. For example, during the Malivanas war in the early 1980's, we used that to contact any Argentinian group with our anti British writings. Using cold calls to Embassies , companies and anything connected to Argentina, we will eventually meet some ex or former somebody who is now an angry nobody and will work with us. If the persson is usable to us, then we usually ran them through the Schiiler Institute and attempted to be as sane as possible and send them to conferneces with their expenses paid. If all worked well, then more doors could be opened up as the plan continues. What usually happend was this. Lyn would start to go batty with some contact the intell staff was working with and the person would politely be too busy to talk to us. We would throw out his or her name so much that by the time the next phone call went out, the person was supporting Lyn for ruler of the world. The person would get po'd and that was that. If the person had some money, we would pester them non stop til they told us to F off. If the person was on our expense account, we would usually and predictably fall behind in money and the person would leave for greener pastures. In some cases we met pretty rich kids of some big wigs and tried to get as much as possible from them. One story was in South East Asia where we tried to get the family to bankroll Lyn in their country. This happened when Lyn was talking tough to the members who were on their way to being convicted for fraud. As lyn is telling us how he is like Christ before the Crucifiction and will accept death, he was having other people trying to see if he could bolt to a country in Asia without an extradition treaty with the US. Keep in mind that we would have hundreds of people around the globe calling many places and people and would get information which was ahead of the curve. One item we pretty much knew from calling up many investment houses was that parts of Third World debt was unserviceable due to many currency and internal problems of curruption , waste and mis management and outright theft. We could take that info, get rid of the reasons and have Lyn proclaim that the soution for Argentina was to use "The Debt Bomb" |
