| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous (66.57.99.88) |
Has anyone heard of this organization in North Carolina? Any experiences to share? | ||
| hilarion (hilarion) New member Username: hilarion Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.57.99.88 |
Been there, seen it, left with certainty that this is a cult. Ever read Margaret Thayer Singer's book "Cults in Our Midst" ? Seems like those guys read the book and used it like a manual: Behind the scenes milieu control, authoritarian dictates (supposedly enlightened), shunning, etc.,. This is no place for the free thinking. They pass themselves off alternatively as a training school or a service organization with spiritual "backing". Check out the publications that expose cults before checking out this place. | ||
| gedon (gedon) New member Username: gedon Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 70.60.111.245 |
Even the casual observer would take note of the exceptional service that Human Service Alliance provides. Check out their website (www.purposeful.org) and read the 19+ year history of hands on service that has been provided to the community. One of their primary projects is a restaurant that offers any student an opportunity to learn to think like management . In addition, the restaurant donates ALL profits to charities. Students volunteer their time at the restaurant side by side with board members, developing servant leader qualities. I graduated from the one-year program that H.S.A. (Center for Purposeful Living) offers and can tell you I would not trade anything for the hands-on experience of learning what it takes to work as part of a cooperative and effective team with a service oriented management perspective that I gained while volunteering there. The program is totally free - I never had to pay anything as everything was provided, and the organization seeks absolutely nothing for itself - it exists only for others to learn and grow. It's obvious that the writer of the comments preceeding this post did not go through the program and complete it. If they did that, they would know that even though program is challenging, it in no way violates one's own integrity. Graduate students are encouraged to go out into the world and serve, equipped with the tools learned in the program, just as I am doing in my relationships and business. Cults don't encourage people to leave, or to think for themselves. This is in no way a cult. | ||
| faron (faron) New member Username: faron Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.57.99.88 |
The Center for Purposeful Living IS just another cult. I was there and know many other former students who agree. What poor Gedon says only proves the point. Cult researchers find many cults include community service projects as a cover. They have doctors, lawyers, and other professional types as members, and by doing good works they believe they are above questioning. This is how they can survive for so long. However, they are not as discreet as they think they are. Gedon is obviously involved financially, socially, and is living among his fellow cult members. He’s doing his best PR shtick to control bad PR. So, they give long winded explanations to deny a reality that any normal person could see, such as many “casual observers” in the community of Winston-Salem who see CPL or University for Human Goodness for the cult that it is. The claim is, “Graduate students are encouraged to go out into the world and serve.” The truth is that over the past four years, CPL has produced very few actual graduates who have gone out from that place to serve in the world. They prefer to keep them there involved in their little world. Try asking CPL recruiters for an address list of students who have graduated and are independent of the cult and have moved away from there. Do this before you go there and it will save you a bundle. I wish I had. Only a small number of charities receive small donations from CPL’s restaurant where they claim “all profits go to charity”. Where most of the profits actually end up is unknown, but they are a non-profit themselves so it is likely that they are their favorite charity. And no one ever says how much comes in from tips and where all of that cash goes. They have a dandy system where students are required to work 40+ hours a week in a restaurant as their “service project” and to earn their keep. This is above and beyond their hours in class, homework, and other projects they are enlisted in. Students are kept so busy they don’t have time to lift up their heads and see what is going on. Being tired or even sick is no excuse for not working. Obviously, without this free labor CPL would never make it, especially at the restaurant. Another fact (which Gedon slides past) is that the CPL is managed by methods of our way or no way used by an egotistical mentor and his special faculty of three called the Teaching Group or TG along with other faculty. Those students who question their philosophy or methods are labeled disrespectful and are pressured, punished, and the unrepentant purged. Students are encouraged to leave their past behind, including families, friends, and spouses not sold on CPL. They tolerate no arguments with superiors. These TG forbid students from reading other than what they prescribe. They are not beyond reading students’ e-mails, and confronting students about the contents while alluding to their information coming from “higher sources”. They also encourage students to spy and report on one another. What a great environment, “for others to learn and grow.” More could be told about this cult, but just re-read the above and consider the truth of experience by not just one student but by many who have been there and found our way to freedom, while going through layers of deprogramming. Finally, we have the irony of a guy who’s sucked into a guru cult defining for us all what a cult is and is not: "Cults don't encourage people to leave, or to think for themselves. This is in no way a cult." Well, at CPL they encourage thinking for yourself as long as it agrees with them, and they encourage people to leave (they kick people out), only if they do NOT agree and are not reverent to “The Mentor” and the Teaching Group. I hope anyone else reading this will do careful research and be wary before entering any such school, group, order, congregation, or club that claims to know what’s best for the souls of others. They are especially trying to attract young people who might become zealously involved in the idealism of the place before they have enough life experience and so their lives (spirituality and purpose; past, present and future), becomes defined by those who are also controlling them. See http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/guru_papers.htm for just one out of many clear descriptions of how cults like the CPL do their damage. | ||
| faron (faron) New member Username: faron Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.57.99.88 |
Another good source on the way cults like Center for Purposeful Living; aka Human Service Alliance fka University for Human Goodness aka University for the Study of Human Goodness operate: SEE: http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studyconversion/study_recruitconvddd.htm | ||
| goulag (goulag) New member Username: goulag Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 217.132.29.96 |
Actually, any individual not ousted from the Center for Purposeful Living alias University for the study of Human Goodness alias Human Service Alliance, before the completion of their years incarceration, is totally brainwashed, cloned and under extreme domination. They will automatically spew the trite and platitudes in "Gedon's" comment. Members have unswervingly been fed the same cult fodder by their Guru, "perfected" with the "Midas touch" etc. and yes, indeed after 19+ yrs of mind control in a totalitarian society, cult members can no longer make the distinction between fact and fiction. Beware of this harmful cult, its questionable practices and their slick glamorous promotion. Wolves in sheep's clothing!! The "exceptional service" this exclusive Occult-group provides is extreme psychological pressure forcing trapped and unsuspecting students to conform to their group's mind-set, which is conducive to the maintenance and promotion of their service projects. Students are violated daily by an orchestrated process of exploitative psychological manipulation constantly overlooked by uncertified teachers with "not personal", "victim" ,“critical talk” and "karma". Students do not know the actual agendas of this cult, its exacting lifestyle, their draconian "soulful" methods and are under surveillance at all times. This thought reform program is NOT exactly free, students are scheduled for more than 50hrs per week (till 11pm 6 nights a week), fixing the groups food, morning + evening shifts at the busy restaurant, gardening, garage sales, housecleaning, construction and renovating the group’s premises, disguised as "applied learning" Exploitation is not altruism!!! Congratulations, Gedon & Co, you are successfully digging your own grave. Plan is to seal the door where evil dwells. The exposure of these discrepancies in your institution (NOT organism) should deter prospective prey, affording cult members the opportunity to finally become the totally responsible person and actually take care of their own work & service projects. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.115.239.179 |
Agreed. I was part of HSA (not by choice) from 88 to about 95. It broke up my family and pretty much destroyed my childhood. I had a way out, thank god. I wonder if the "temple" is still there. | ||
| susan_b_baggett (susan_b_baggett) New member Username: susan_b_baggett Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.172.11.38 |
There is an old adage stating "there are two sides to every coin." The postings on this site present a lot of untruth and distortion. For interested people who would like to hear what successful graduates have to say (rather than those who were not successful and are intent on cultivating rumors and gossip), or learn more about what is really being offered at the Center for Purposeful Living, you are invited to contact me directly at my CPA office 336-777-8811. You may also come to one of the Center for Purposeful Living's regularly scheduled open houses (Come and See weekend) where you can meet students and faculty or come at any time for a visit and tour. You may also go to (please copy the url and paste into your browser if the link is not active): http://ufhg.org/data/publications/html/master/SUP-2005_7_2_112920.shtml This program is not easy and it is purposely designed to challenge students. Many succeed. Some don’t. Susan Baggett, President of the organization (Message edited by susan_b_baggett on July 05, 2005) | ||
| goulag (goulag) New member Username: goulag Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 217.132.51.55 |
For some CPL is a walk-through, while for others it becomes the ultimate destination!! One man's meat is another man's poison!!! With the utmost respect to Mrs. Susan Baggett who we believe to be sincere, since most cult members are oblivious to the fact that they have manufactured a cult. The above FACTS are an endeavor to assist interested people to see the “other side of the coin” - the side cult leaders would rather they not see. So, before you accept Mrs. Baggett's invitation, for GOODNESS SAKE be sure to find out independently of the organization, what is the motivation and intent behind the denial that the Center for Purposeful Living IS a cult. For real, you will be better prepared to make informed and intelligent choices; lest you become ensnared in what is REALLY being offered at CPL. Cults cannot survive when people know their secrets. These secrets Cult Leaders go out of their way to prevent people discovering. Actually, I am not a drop-out, I was viciously "kicked out" of CPL by Mrs. Susan Baggett in the flesh, with the semantic "this is your choice". Rather than blame ousted cult members or former students who did successfully complete a year at CPL, for revealing the truth. STOP & THINK, Best take an honest inventory and review the techniques used by your esoteric group. Even better still, recognize the need to cultivate self-examination, humility, genuine interest and at least some sensitivity towards others. Remember everything that happens to us is an opportunity for learning and growth. The truth will set you FREE!!! (Message edited by goulag on June 02, 2005) | ||
| sameexperience (sameexperience) New member Username: sameexperience Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 207.119.133.14 |
I have just been introduced to this site and am totally amazed at how accurate the accounts of people who have gone to the Cult known as Center fo Purposeful Living are(Did you ever wonder why they changed their name?) I, too, attended this place for a relatively brief period of time and discovered exactly the same things as faron and goulag. Extremely accurate. The only thing that hasn't been disclosed (and perhaps it has changed) but the Teaching Group or most of them as well as other key people were planning to move to the property where the Center is located. Does that reek of Cult? I haven't kept up with what has gone on in the past several months so I don't know if that has actually taken place. I do know that in addition to the restaurant work, the students are now required to also work in the catering business. Build additions to buildings, etc., etc. It's actually scary when you realize what has happened and you are there. I believe too that the Teaching Group is sincere and believe in what they are teaching - some of them have never been exposed to any other "religion" or "cult" and the Mentor is a master of deception. Be very careful if you decide to "jump in"! | ||
| faron (faron) New member Username: faron Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.57.99.88 |
Another old adage is, "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....It IS a duck." Just insert the appropriate word "cult" and you have a valid description of CPL. It is true that most all of the main members are selling their homes and moving to the compound. Problem is the CPL cannot appreciate how wacko they appear to others. The more they deflect and deny the more suspect they become. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.99.25.211 |
What ever happened to Discovery Lane? | ||
| faron (faron) New member Username: faron Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.57.99.88 |
Apparently some of the original members left, including all of “The Mentors” family who still live in the original neighborhood and so the rest are required to move to the compound. Probably the usual ultimatums of “choice” with the only soulful choice (according to the resident soul experts) being to give up their homes for a slice of heaven on “campus”. Many of them already have businesses and employment there, another sign of "normalcy". All tied up in one neat little controllable package. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
faron, Perhaps you should drip me a line sometime: lists@chrisshort.net | ||
| steppingstone (steppingstone) New member Username: steppingstone Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 66.56.134.213 |
I was a 'student' in the University program for 1 year and have seen both sides of the coin. Here's the good side... Though I chose not to graduate due to a difference of belief, there was a great sense of accomplishment. While a student, I was responsible for MANY new challenges including overcoming limited thought of what I was capable of, sleep requirements, eating habits, and functional capacity in general. In addition, there was the unique opportunity to work with a group of people that didn't support a whining attitude or someone that wasn't willing to pull 110% of one's own responsibility. That was refreshing and life changing. Then there's the bad... This organization is definitely not all that it claims however. I chose (my choice) to quit my job and become a full-time 'volunteer' at the University, now called CPL. I did so with a rather sku'd perspective which was formed from one of the 'Come and See' performances which students must (MUST) take part in. Recruitment is very important to this organization. Some of the negatives include: - Heirarchical organization distributes information from the 'Guru' the further into the circle you go, so there is a sense of accomplishment and NEED to continue. - A very real sense of brainwashing that occurs subtly at first with new terminology and then gradually increases with added responsibility based on how well one changes to meet the group's idealistic perspectives. - A tremendous amount of required time (and a fair amount of money...) to maintain enrollment, which, gives one little time or energy to think one's own thoughts. This technique also gives one little money or time to look for a way out... - The moderately sized group (55-65 people) consisting of Board members (lifers), graduate 'students' waiting to become Board members, and enrolled 'students' all become instant friends upon enrollment into the program, and become instant enemies upon leaving... - Pressure to break connection with friends and family outside of the group, ex students, relationships where the other person is not a 'student' - Extremism in thought, practice, action, and speech from the TG - teaching group, and the 'Guru', who started it all. - Verbal beratement from the 'Mentors' aka TG if one is not 'changing to meet the Soul'. The Soul of the person is another term for whatever the group wants. - All of the work done is in the name of service, but most of the money made goes back to the organization. HSA is on the list of donors... Recently, a statement from the TG was made that there aren't enough worthwhile causes to merit donation, so they are just keeping the money 'until something comes along'. - The group teachings aren't practiced, ie, Right Human Relations, openness (in general), TRP - Totally Responsible Person for their own actions. Check out cultwatch.net and look at the section Mind Control. This organization uses most of the techniques. If you are willing to put up with a fair amount of deception, busy work, emotional abuse, financial and physical contribution, and mandatory beliefs, then check it out. This group has two good qualities based on my experience - TRP, which has merit, and pushing beyond limited beliefs. I chose to leave because I didn't agree with the way people are treated, lies about the money and where it actually goes (Tip money from California Fresh Buffet? Donations? trips?) and because I was encouraged to break all ties with friends and family, especially those students that were kicked out or left. The religious basis for this organization is Alice Bailey/DK, which is great stuff. As a student, you would get a small introduction to this work, which has nothing to do with HSA, UfHG, CPL, or the restaraunt California Fresh Buffet. If you are interested in learning more about this teaching, check out alicebaily.org I do not recommend this organization based on personal experiences. There are better ways... taoservant@yahoo.com | ||
| hopscotch222 (hopscotch222) New member Username: hopscotch222 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.209.172.138 |
Could any of you previously involved with the Human Service Alliance/CPL please comment on whether the "guru" arranges marriages for its members and whether he directs members to use their full names instead of shortened versions of their names (ie, "Susan" instead of "Sue"; "Thomas" instead of "Tom.") I know people involved in HSA who proudly told me that the leader arranged their marriage. I even heard that he encouraged an openly gay man to marry an elderly woman within the group. I know people who have suddenly started calling themselves their full names instead of the nickname they'd gone by for several years after they joined HSA/CPL. I volunteered at CPL for a while and got really creepy vibes out there. Don't some cults arrange marriages for their members and choose "cult names" for them as well? I'm surprised no one has commented about these things on this site yet. | ||
| steppingstone (steppingstone) New member Username: steppingstone Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 66.56.134.213 |
Hello hopscotch, Yes, arrangement does exist. It is not so forward, but still real. Many members are 'encouraged' to start 'aspirational friendships', which means nothing hot and heavy, but get to know each other well. I was in such an arrangement, though it did not last long. Once this has occured, and there is a bond, pairs members are strongly advised (mentored) that their partner, which has been selected for them and offers the greatest opportunity for soul growth, should get married. Those marriages are then consecrated by a Puja, which is an Indian term for gathering or union, and indicates an esoteric marriage with ceremonies (no sacrifies  and much hooplah. (NOTE: A Puja is Indian custom in some cases and not necessarily wrong, nor is it specific to UfHG/CPL/HSA). These pairs are married to the group so to speak, and then are encouraged to have children that are brought up in the group lifestyle. Make sense? Members are proud of this arrangement which the mentor provides because they have placed him on such a pedestal. To the BOD and BD, he is an incarnation of an ascended master, one that is perfect on earth and needs no earthly guidance, only wisdom from other ascended masters. Does this sound crazy yet? He is never questioned, and therefore they feel he is never wrong, thus the great pride of his involvement in the marriage. I do honestly believe that in order to move 'up the ranks' of this group, one must completely subjugate one's sense of self and worship the master, who is just another man. As for the nickname/full name issue, I am not certain. When I was there, everyone was required to use initials only. This supposedly discouraged the personality from gaining control... Now, I think that some of these principles have merit in the right circumstances, but these people are led blindly, and with such sense of righteousness, that there is never a doubt or question of why they do them. The TG is the supreme authority of the BD and students, while the guru is the supreme authority of the BOD (board members or lifers). His word is like God's own utterance... | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
Yes... While I was there marriages were arranged and people were incouraged to use their full names (myself included). I did not like the full name thing at all (and still don't; it's my name I'll shorten or lenghthen it how I see fit). steppingstone's clarification of the arrangment of marriages is pretty darn accurate. | ||
| faron (faron) New member Username: faron Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.57.99.88 |
Re: S. Baggett posting "Many succeed, some don't" It MUST mean succeed in getting outta there and onto a more normal self-determined existence. They certainly have a lot more students leave than stay. Unless they start counting the past HSA Project volunteers and members of their Board, none of whom had to put up with the kind of nonsense they heap on live-in students. Whoops! Looks like they already tried padding numbers just like that on their website. There's a rationale for everything if you're deluded enough. | ||
| euphrates (euphrates) New member Username: euphrates Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.4.185.4 |
While it could be endlessly debated whether Center for Purposeful Living (aka, Human Service Alliance, aka, University for the Study of Human Goodness) is a cult or not, one could certainly conclude that it is based on the great lengths they are taking to deny that they are with the rhetoric recently posted on their own website on the topic, as well as the personal experiences posted on this discussion board. Using the five “cult” criteria they themselves outline, I have the following comments to be considered by anyone considering joining this group: 1) “Family members, parents and friends of students are encouraged to visit the campus both before and during the student’s attendance”: CPL goes to great lengths to distance/disassociate students from their families. Knowing that requiring student to sever all family ties would result in an even higher departure rate than they already experience, they manipulate students into believing that associating with their families doesn’t serve their souls, and slows their progress. See OAF357’s initial post (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/3466.html?1120188861) to gain another perspective as to whether CPL fosters family relations. Also, anyone who has spent anytime there knows that nearly all the BOD/BD members have severed relations with most family members who are not part of the cult. To preserve its membership, CPL will not hesitate to break up marriages and families. Another tactic used by the cult to distance students from their families is placing extreme pressure on the students to work at the restaurant on all family holidays such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter and Mothers Day, making it extremely difficult for students to leave and see family members, knowing that most family members would question the group and its motives. 2) “Teachers/mentors at Center for Purposeful Living (CPL) do not seek to control participants/students”: Teachers and The Mentor are highly skilled manipulators who use their authority to wear down students with pschological badgering and rigorous, physically demanding schedules that leave them tired and vulnerable. The Center for Purposeful Living (CPL) website states, “They (teachers and The Mentor) do, however, know what it takes to maintain the environment created at CPL and what will inevitably weaken that environment”. What would weaken the environment is to allow students time to have friends and experiences outside of the cult. This would weaken the environment because more students would see Center for Purposeful Living for what it really is and leave (often in the middle of the night). 3) “CPL does not seek to “hold on” to people. Indeed, the hope is that graduates will go out into the world and lead lives of service”: CPL makes every effort possible to hold on to those students whom they find meet their needs, whether it be physical labor on the grounds, working long hours at the restaurant, attracting new students or providing other needed services to the cult. One should challenge CPL to list references of students, (with their contact information) who have graduated the program and “gone out in the world to lead lives of service”. Their website lists a few, but anyone who knows these people can see how distorted the list of graduates is (e.g., a student working in one of the teaching group’s medical office). 4) “Leadership is diffused at CPL, not centralized around a single individual”: This is the most ludicrous of all the claims they make. Anyone who has spent any significant amount of time at CPL knows DL (The Mentor) is the unequivocal leader of the cult, no matter how much they will try to convince you he is not. I suspect that some of the members have said this (“there is no leader”) so many times that they actually believe it, despite how much they are manipulated to think he is not. They are clearly his puppets, and fear his wrath should they disobey. 5) “No member of the board or participant in the program receives any money except for a few salaries at the restaurant”: While this is probably the most factual claim made of the 5, it is also deceptive. The Center for Purposeful Living (CPL) is ALL ABOUT MONEY AND POWER. All students are required to work at the restaurant, no matter how ill they may be. The BOD/BD comprises the remaining “volunteers”, but reality is that most of the profits go to the Center for Purposeful Living favorite charity, CPL. Don’t believe it? Contact the charities listed at CFB to see how much money they have donated to their organization. Then do some simple arithmetic of how much money they collect nightly at CFB with 300-400 customers per night. This is one of the reasons why they “hold on” to students as they provide “free labor”, without which the restaurant would not survive. I think it should also be noted how the Center for Purposeful Living (CPL) appears to be getting a lot of “negative feedback” on other threads on this board (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/3466.html?1120188861) and other places on the Internet, to the point where they recently updated their website with a entire page (referenced above) dedicated to why they are not a cult. One could suggest that that all these negative comments, which CPL will discount as coming from “drop-outs” may be *their* karma, resulting from years of extreme manipulation and abuse of power. When students do leave, The Mentor sends a litany of “teaching e-mails” out to everyone, naming the negative qualities of the departed members, often scathingly so, and poses it as a “teaching lesson” to observe and learn from and not as criticism. Obviously, the cult would deteriorate if anyone who left were portrayed as having any positive qualities or having made the “right choice” as others would then question their situation there. All negative actions from CPL teachers and The Mentor are justified as spiritual, soulful, etc., and yet any decisions by others that aren’t in alignment with their thoughts are deemed as “personality” (their version of the devil). In summary, the crux of the issue is not whether they are a cult or not (although they meet every criteria that defines a modern-day cult), rather whether this is an organization that misrepresents itself and its motives. I don’t think one would ever find a cult that claims to be one, but many who protest not to be. Euphrates499@yahoo.com | ||
| hopscotch222 (hopscotch222) New member Username: hopscotch222 Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 70.60.111.82 |
Don't people at CPL find it a bit disturbing that the "leader" is telling them who they should marry and what name they should be calling themselves? Does anyone know the leader, DL's, personal background? Is he, in your opinion, a spiritually advanced soul or someone just pretending to be one? Those of you who were at CPL, why do the people there put up with this kind of behavior? | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
Because they're brainwashed, hopscoth222. euphrates, Is seems you and I share several opinions. I would like to invite all of you to read my thoughts on HSA/CPL at my blog. I wrote the pieces of this story a few days ago and have put them all together here: http://www.shortfamilyonline.com/life/archives/000829.php But, I think all of you will get a better idea of exactly who these people are by reading my story. | ||
| koru (koru) New member Username: koru Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 63.164.145.85 |
I just received a typed letter mailed and signed by "The BOD of HSA/CPL/UFHG/and any future name" that describes the people who post on this Factnet site as "vindictive" and "losers and whiners". They claim that the messages which attest to CPL being a cult are "destructive and critical". They go on to say that, "While you might want to think you are helping or salvaging poor victims, surely you do not see that as a role mandated to you by your soul." The Powers that Be at CPL warn of the dire karmic consequences of "degrading" another's work (in this case for revealing truth). The arrogant tone, the condescension toward ex-members, and the use of fear mongering references to karma are classic trademarks of a cultic order whose agenda is ever to control others. After 17 years of deep involvement with this group as a founding board member serving in virtually every area of key responsibility, I resigned from the CPL because I finally came to see what they were all about whenthey tried their damnedest to alienate me from my wife and two young children. I was counseled by the leadership in person and via numerous e-mails to begin covert transfer of money to a secret bank account, to jettison my wife and children,because they determined she was in "deep denial" (in not accepting their authority) and that she and the children were dispensable: anyone who chooses other than the CPL dogma is deemed as lacking in "soulfulness". Thank God, I had the presence of mind to perceive their twisted manipulations and act in accord with my own conscience. While I have no desire to bring down anyone's work, I have no qualms about sharing the facts of my experience. Coleman Alderson koru@safe-mail.net (Message edited by koru on July 15, 2005) | ||
| hopscotch222 (hopscotch222) New member Username: hopscotch222 Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.209.172.138 |
Great posts, Oaf357 and Koru. Could you two please be more specific in future postings about events and tactics that go on at CPL? Can you quote the entire letter you received, Koru? I know so many people who assume CPL is a wonderful place because they love eating at the California Fresh Buffet. I don't think they would be so supportive of the restaurant if they knew what really goes on behind the scenes. I know at one time that people used to come from overseas to volunteer at CPL because they'd heard it was such a great place. People need to be COMPTLETELY informed before they get involved with this organization! | ||
| hopscotch222 (hopscotch222) New member Username: hopscotch222 Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.209.172.138 |
Can someone give the background of CPL's leader, DL? Who is he and where did he come from? What is it about him that causes othewise intelligent doctors, lawyers, and other educated people to to what he says? Is DL, in your opinion, really an advanced spiritual being or just a regular guy PRETENDING TO BE an advanced spiritual being? | ||
| flowerpower (flowerpower) New member Username: flowerpower Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 208.54.95.151 |
I just discovered this discussion board and it is so TRUE!!! I was a student there and have no doubt that the Center for Purposeful Living (used to be University for Human Goodness) is definitely a CULT!!! When I first discovered them on the Internet I thought it was a training like AmeriCorp or the Peace Corps and when I called to inquire they said yes they were and more! Well, the more part was right! My family and friends thought that it was a cult right from the beginning but I didn't listen to them and I believed the garbage the cult members told me and went anyway. Big mistake! I'm pretty sure there wasn't any information on the Internet then telling the truth about it being a cult. Good thing there is now! In one of the classes they teach how to "stay positive, productive, and effective no matter what". Sounds good but what they really mean by that is to "shut up, do as your told and smile about it". Whenever I asked any questions I was told I was arguing with them and incapable of knowing what was best for my soul. In fact, we were all told all the time that the Teaching Group (TG) was the connection with our soul and that they knew what was best for us and we didn't. I thought my mentor (they assign a member of the staff as a personal mentor) and the TG in general to be anything but inspiring or wise, but they certainly did thoroughly enjoy their power trip. The one thing they are very skilled at is manipulation and following the leader. The leader (DL), who they all bow to whenever he enters a room, I found also unimpressive and basically just a con man. He gives "Sunday Teachings" and spends much of the time telling everyone how privileged they are to be in his presence to hear his words of wisdom. He then makes threats to ban students from his teachings if they do not appreciate the "gift" and "honor" of hearing him. I saw students and group members actually tear up in fanatical fervor after his silly talks. I couldn't believe people actually thought this guy is a Master or whatever they think. The people there never actually said to me he was a Master but it was always implied and DL did a lot of the implying himself. The emails DL sent out were full of petty ridicule for folks who were not towing the line and lots of manipulation to get them to. He did send some emails with some good points that were basic things that anyone would learn in philosophy 101. He also spent a lot of time trying to convince everyone how special the work there was and how it is so pioneering and way beyond what the majority of humanity could understand. It didn't seem at all new to me and it seemed a lot like a fundamentalist church with New Age words that operated a work camp. Another class had as its text book "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie, certainly anything but new or pioneering and the teacher for that class was a moron! While I was there I was told by a long time cult member and also by another student that DL got his start as a Dale Carnegie facilitator. That must have been where he got his initial training in manipulation! The staff that works there also are in love with power and ordering students around, especially the Center Coordinator who often tried to make students lives hell over the most petty and silly things. She seemed to really get off on making students cry. The pressure to stay the whole year was horribly intense and they did everything they could to force me to, often threatening that if I left I would have a life destined to be miserable and I would be a complete failure and never discover my soul's purpose. That is why so many people have to leave in the middle of the night because their gestapo will stop at nothing to try and force people to stay. I was so emotionally torn apart by them and so physically exhausted all of the time that it was hard to think straight. I finally decided to escape when I realized that the real pressure started when students were getting close to the year mark and the cult was trying to force them to commit to staying permanently. They would refuse to graduate students if they didn't make a longer commitment. I also woke up and realized that the only thing they were training me for was to be a good cult member who would be their free labor at California Fresh Buffet where they would continue to work us to death and constantly yell at us for stupid little things that don't really matter in the REAL world. I am so glad they are finally being exposed!!! I bet there are tons of stories about this harmful cult. I hope a lot more people share them! | ||
| truth_seeker2 (truth_seeker2) New member Username: truth_seeker2 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 208.54.72.161 |
I was a student at CPL for a short time, and find so much of what I've read here to be true. The arranged marriages, screening and intercepting of emails and the power and money stuff. I would never recommend it to anyone, and am grateful to have gotten out when I did. | ||
| hopscotch222 (hopscotch222) New member Username: hopscotch222 Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.209.172.138 |
Does anyone know the leader, DL's, background? Where did he come from and what makes him qualified to be the spriritual leader of this group? Do people at CPL get much interaction with him or is he shrouded in mystery? Will the group dissolve once he passes away or will he anoint a spiritual successor? | ||
| marcusrevelus (marcusrevelus) New member Username: marcusrevelus Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 206.47.19.5 |
CPL differs from a cult in at least five significant ways: 1) "Family members, parents and friends of students are encouraged to visit the campus both before and during the student’s attendance. The campus atmosphere is open and honest. In cults, family members are definitely not welcome." This happens only if the family or friend is in line with the student’s decision to be at CPL or if the CPL is confident they can “manage” any such visitors. Family and friends who clearly disapprove of the organization and make it known are cast as “enablers”, “detractors”, “victims” who do not have the student’s best interests. A note to the students from CPL’s leader, Derwin Lackey, about a young teenager who decided to go home for Christmas is revealing: "It is interesting that when a student leaves, he or she often tells TG that they are following their soul; that their soul wants them to leave. Sunday night and Monday, as KB reaffirmed that she needed to stay and not go home for Xmas, she did not know that her parents had already made the decision that she would be coming home to stay. They were afraid they might be losing the ability to enable her if she stayed here, something to which they are addicted. That is not a sign of maturity. Actually, KB outgrew them during her short stay here. And while stating that her soul wants her to go home (how silly we can be), it is predictable that she will regress to the level of her parents own maturity. This is NOT a criticism. It is more of a lesson for all of us, one we have had many times at the UfHG, and one we are likely to have in the future." What are students to make of this? It casts the righteous leaders of CPL in the heroic role of savior and rescuer and places the parents (maybe even our own parents?????) in a most unfavorable light as immature and self-serving. This is a typical cult tactic of casting outside family members as “Them” or “They” who are against you, and inhibiting one’s growth. Surely this does not apply to most parents. This message is pejorative and harmful to family relations while sanctifying the guru’s position. So, just what if…what if the girl’s parents had come for a visit and realized that what they had been told was an educational program was, to their minds, indoctrination into a cult??? Obviously one way of spinning this to other students is to blame the parents, parents who have every right to be concerned about their daughter. And what is so “non-soulful” about going home for Christmas? 2) Teachers/mentors at CPL do not seek to control participants/students. They do, however, know what it takes to maintain the environment created at CPL and what will inevitably weaken that environment. Students are responsible for determining what changes they want to make in their lives while in the program. By participating, students give explicit permission to receive feedback and advice on how to achieve their stated goals. Some students say, “Just tell me what to do and I’ll do it.” CPL’s answer is, “What needs to happen is for you to discover, not for us to tell you.” Advice or suggestions offered to students are stated in such a way as to make the decision the choice of the student and not the direction of the teacher. The fact that they may feel pressure is of their own making. For example, internal pressure arises when the student chooses the traits to change, and then resists when advice and feedback are given regarding that very trait. The choice factor becomes increasingly bounded as the student is indoctrinated into the cult’s requirements of submission, a high level of commitment, and performance of one’s duties as assigned. In classes, references are made to being “trapped by the soul” which really means trapped by CPL totalitarian rules which stipulate selfless group-based decisions versus individual choices, which they call selfish. A child has similarly bounded choices, bounded by a loving, all-knowing parent, which is exactly how the paternal faculty and their leader at CPL function, (minus the love part). The CPL mentors are totally convinced that they know what is best for students. They analyze and diagnose, do astrology and “readings”, and then counsel students in ways similar to the normal psychological counseling process that induces transference. But where ethical practitioners seek to free clients from having to transfer old unresolved issues, with parents and others, the CPL does the exact opposite by perpetuating the idea that THEY know, and presumably will always know what’s best for the student. EVERYTHING at the cult is conditional on the choice a student makes, and students are constantly reminded that being there is a privilege that is earned by their choices. Here’s a message from the guru that went out to students after a one-year student departed without receiving a graduation. Let us glimpse an apparent less than "happy" conclusion of the one year's experience, just for its own lesson. A few weeks ago a student completed her year. She had not earned a graduation, for reasons which TG kept her apprised of for most of her one year. So no one ends their year here without having a clear sense of how they are doing. Then the wisdom of TG's decision is made clearer several weeks after this former student's departure (not a negative departure, just not a graduation), an email was received from that former student. I believe it was generally copied to the rest of us. The lady's message fortified TG's decision. She did not express negativity towards UfHG. Those who read her email saw a personality still living in abundant victim. It showed a cynicism about life in general, about her ex-boyfriend and about her life in particular, past, present and future. This was the same pathetic attitude (not the person, but the attitude) that came here. That former student could have been given an exhaustive, esoteric analysis. Not only her ray pattern in this life, but in her previous lifetime and even the planned ray pattern for her next physical lifetime. Her past and present karmas and her soul's intended dharma for a series of lifetimes yet in the future. Such deep and personal information could likely have penetrated her glamours (of separativeness) and illusions (about her role in life) and caused her to RESPOND to offerings made to her here. So current CPL students who read this are supposed to be in awe? This is typical “we know your soul and REAL destiny” form of manipulation used as a lure and, more importantly, to establish the cult leaders as “all knowing” counselors. Choice is therefore bounded between the safety and security of the known and the much more insecure prospects of making an unapproved, unwise, and perhaps even dangerous choice. Note how, the student who left after an entire year remains in their eyes in the same “pathetic” state she started with. 3) CPL does not seek to “hold on” to people. Indeed, the hope is that graduates will go out into the world and lead lives of service wherever they landin nonprofits, education, business, government, etc. Also, if students do not measure up to the demands of the program, or if CPL is just not a good fit for them, they will be asked to make a choiceeither open up to the benefits of the program or leave and find another place to do their work. Students who dislike the program are never dissuaded from leaving. Cults, on the other hand, do try to hold on to people. The notion that cults try to hold onto people is, intriguingly, a misinformed one. Sure, at CPL, they “release” students, and then a series of follow-up messages from the guru get sent out that spin how the student was flawed, adversely influenced, or unsalvageable (“we did our best”). NEVER do they hold themselves accountable as a group or demonstrate a collective example of TRP. Rather, notes like these, razzing students, are standard MO, (all couched as “learning” of course). Students are informed that they should be open to feedback, but not offer any to CPL until they’ve been there for 6 months. If ever a student departs, any private discussion about the departure is called “gossip” and anyone who gossips or criticizes is branded a detractor and, if persistent, they will certainly be purged. Addressing CPL’s misinformed notion that cults always hold onto people: Purging is actually common among cults, the Heaven’s Gate group experienced a number of such events, so that the wheat could be sorted from chaff, the wavering from the totally committed. We know the totalitarian regimes of Joseph Stalin and Sadaam Hussein instigated “purifying” purges. Then the leaders have more reliable followers so that “the work can soar”. If anyone takes issue directly with the Mentor, or TG…..well, they’re most always booted out immediately, sometimes with only a couple hours notice to pack. Often a monitor is assigned to the “kick-out” as they pack to leave. This is to keep them from “water-fountain talk”: speaking to any fellow students about their treatment or issues. And then we have the admonitions about negative tension. Quote from the resident guru: “For that brief time we are in negative tension, we need to release all decisions, or, have our Best Friend (TG) make important decisions for us until sanity returns and illusion leaves”. Note the catch-22 nature of this directive, especially if there are issues regarding the leadership. First of all, who determines what is and is not negative tension? The guru via his subordinate yes-men. And if it happens to take issue with CPL in any way, it HAS to be negative. One is therefore in a state of insanity and illusion. So, what is the prescription for a student with misgivings about the program…..turn off your mind and let THEM make decisions for you. This promotes a very closed system designed to contain disruption and keep people there. It’s the leadership that holds the answers as to what is “soulful”, and if a student’s choice or thoughts differ, it is automatically labeled as the “personality choice” (the lesser or wrong one). This creates the tension… essentially, “our way/thoughts/ideas are right, if you choose yours, it’s wrong, but hey, it’s your choice!” Then if you choose your way, they put on increasingly unpleasant pressure; hold increasingly unpleasant mentoring sessions, begin to broadcast teaching sessions to all, either named or usually thinly disguised. These letters and sessions are designed to single out your issues until you yield or bolt. This mind-control/brainwashing process paralyzes some because most people want to do the right thing; want to make more soulful choices, (and are increasingly indoctrinated that CPL IS that way and no other choice). Conversely, they don’t want to be labeled as quitters or losers. The CPL leadership place themselves as the soul experts, and this can begin to erode self trust and certainly has nothing to do with learning to listen to one’s OWN inner wisdom,(unless of course it happens to agree with the way they see it). 4) Leadership is diffused at CPL, not centralized around a single individual. Biggest “myth” of all. All works, events, management level decisions pertaining to CPL are overseen and ultimately controlled by one person: a certain Derwin Lackey. At first it seems like it’s the Teaching Group of Christa Thornburg, Susan Baggett-Fyten and Dr. Stephen Leighton, plus certain faculty, until you begin to notice things, little things maybe at first, then they become more apparent. Derwin (DL) has informed students he was their “environmentalist”, monitoring the environment (and he means people not nature) of the entire campus. It becomes increasingly clear that he is also the “master manipulator” and the TG are his first string sycophants and deployable Gestapo along with the Center Coordinator (rabid enforcer), Penelope Kilpatrick and strong arm attorney Thomas White. Derwin’s influence is pervasive at CPL and “He” is beyond questioning. Due reverence is expected, and if “The Work” (which equates to the guru) is not recognized and revered, then the unappreciative get whatever “karma” they deserve. Quoting a message sent to students, the “Mentor” DL says: But do let us remember that gold lies not out on the highways awaiting speeding motorists, but must be searched for and then RECOGNIZED, even when it is covered with other debris. What we have found here is more precious and more lasting. And if millions pass it up without seeing, without recognizing, THAT is their karma. And further: This is the first group of students to whom I have specifically addressed teaching messages. Others have occasionally received copies of teaching messages sent to BOD/BD. You all show much promise, despite the baggage that comes with every one of us. Consider TG to be your VERY BEST FRIEND, for, in truth, they are JUST THAT. That is what a spiritual teacher really is, our Best Friend. They will not judge our past nor criticize our present. They seek the Light of Truth and Soul, for EVERY STUDENT. Consider yourselves as each BOD considers ourselves, to have some really great karma to have made the decision to be here for this training. OM, DL Note that all messages from “DL” are entirely emboldened, meaning everything written is most worthy of notice. Many of humankind’s greatest teachers have been known for their humility. Totalitarian leaders have been known by their inflated sense of self. What quality do the above messages from “The Mentor” DL, portray? Moreover, there is a SEVERE amount of micromanagement going on so that a student gets the very appropriate sense that they are being watched from all directions. Phone calls are listened into, rooms are occasionally “inspected” by CPL staff and student e-mails have been ‘tapped”, fire walled from detracting outsiders, and monitored. Students are called in for impromptu mentoring sessions that amount to interrogations. The TG and their mentor complain about how much of their time is spent dealing with students’ personality issues. A simple question is, “Why?” And whatever happened to serving as example of being a Totally Responsible Person? Should they be exempt from seeing such burdens as their own opportunity for learning and growth? AND, more importantly, if they were not so furiously trying to manage their “climate” by controlling everything and everyone in it, they might actually be freed up for some real service in the world. 5) No member of the board or participant in the program receives any money except for a few salaries at the restaurant. In fact, most board members donate to support the organization. All faculty members, the restaurant manager, and all but 15% of the staff at CFB are volunteers including many who also hold full-time jobs outside CPL. OK, let’s pretend there is no monetary quid quo pro for the operators at CPL. But what about intangibles such as: Being part of an exclusively enlightened, innovative, cutting edge, new wave spiritual enclave, just like having a high brow country club membership would be for a “personality-oriented” corporation worker. Being allowed the privilege of living among advanced disciples of the new age and from time to time receiving special kudo’s from them for good behavior. A personal letter from Derwin Lackey is the ultimate favor. Going on special outings and “pilgrimages” where so much is orchestrated around the “Mentor” and his legacy, not to mention evoking gratitude for the gift of his time and energy in planning and coordinating these travels. The students pay their own way for the more elaborate trips and are often coaxed, if not badgered, to get their deposit of several hundred dollars in early. Usually trip deposits are not returned, (and of course room deposits) if you leave early or are kicked out. Being important, (better to be a big fish in a small pond), where students are lauded and stroked for making commitments to stay beyond their one-year term, and then, if they stay longer are “permitted” to qualify as being elevated to an upper level of the CPL hierarchy, thus able to lord over lesser students, often in an overbearing and petty manner, and in my experience, these individuals are highly UN-qualified to manage anyone. Experiencing the feel-good effects of renouncing and submission to a higher authority are well-documented within all kinds of groups. Having someone enlightened take over and direct your life can be a release from many worrisome and tiring decisions, (though this actually disables one from being prepared to adequately take on that responsibility outside of the cult environment). It’s like a return to childhood. As long as one follows directions, all is well and wonderful. As to what non-monetary perks the leaders receive, certainly adulation, the power over others, the inflow of money to create and expand new enterprises. Having all forms of transportation to ride around in like full sized luxury busses, and a private airplane. Not so bad. As for the money, with hundreds of dollars pouring into the restaurant every night in tips alone, plus the daily profits, they are building a powerful entity that has become increasingly geared to be a successful, money-making business; to be a financially successful organization, (they talk CONSTANTLY about the money they’re making; it’s very exciting seeing money roll in and being a successful business). If that’s what they want to be when they grow up, then they should just go that route and stop the false advertising about training world servers and “human goodness”, but they’ve lost sight of the human factor, if they ever really had it. They teach students that explanations are to be avoided because in so doing, the lesson isn’t learned, yet I attended teaching session after teaching session where their leaders EXPLAINED and wrote about why they were not a cult. Looking around at the audience, I did not see thinking people “humming” as they say, but instead glassy eyes ready to worship whatever The Mentor said. That’s why I decided to finally read up on cults, and discovered that many of these cult books could have been written about Center for Purposeful Living as the model. That’s scary. A cult profile, a leader who is worshipped (with other leaders to worship in training), never wrong or never questioned and obvious mind control techniques going on… this group is NOT what they say they are, and I had to eat humble pie with friends and family and acknowledge they were right. I am so grateful to be out and thinking clearly again and am glad to report that service and “soulfulness” did not begin nor end with CPL. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
marcusrevelus, What a telling and truthful piece you have here. With your permission I'd like to "re-publish" it on my blog (http://www.shortfamilyonline.com/life/). It baffles me how diluted these people have become and how money is truly the great motivator. It would appear that they don't do anything that doesn't turn a profit now. Where in the past they had done a few good things now they are the scum of the earth. Blue chip stock portfolios and bank accounts teeming with money and little of it being taxed... how is that soulful? I'd like to encourage everyone reading this to comment on this article about California Fresh Buffet (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/social-capital.html) and allow the author(s) and readers of that article to see the truth about the dark side of the restaurant and subsequent cult members that run it. Chris Short lists@chrisshort.net | ||
| clarity (clarity) New member Username: clarity Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.231.178.167 |
I was also a student member of CPL for three months last year. I got some value out of it but when I chose to leave, the group as a whole showed its true colors of not being as loving and compassionate as they profess to be. I wanted to give them plenty of notice so not to create a problem with there finding a worker to take over my shift but they told me to leave almost imediately in a icy cold and uncaring way. They even cheated me by refusing to pay back the 350.00 deposit I made for the pilgrmge trip even though I was leaving well before the deadline to commit for the payment of the boats. They are definately out of integrity in many ways as I see the facts roll in. I would still invite the CPL staff to refund this 350.00 but I doubt that they will because I heard from others they they also lost their deposits when they chose to leave. They got some business going there. They make there students work 6 days a week in their resturant for nothing. The CPL staff takes the the tips that the customers leave the workers and claim they use it for food for the students. This is only a half truth. The students eat mostly left overs from the resturant brought back for their lunches. CPL also steal their pilgramage deposits when one is lucky enough to realize they are being used, abused and conditioned as slave donkey labors who get the reward of being screamed at regularly at work. William gaura99200@yahoo.com | ||
| sroberts35 (sroberts35) New member Username: sroberts35 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.149.41.63 |
I thought I was somewhat familiar with the University because my daughter has a couple of friends that are there. A few years back she looked into going there; I looked up information, and was very skeptical, but believed my daughter could think for herself. I could express some very logical opinions on why I believe the University is a cult, but why waste my time trying to convince people when we have the organization’s Form 990 (IRS RETURN) for “The University?” I think we could all agree that the IRS is reporting only what “The University” reports to them. Not even I think “The University” is stupid enough to lie to the IRS. First of all, I was under the impression that the CFB (the restaurant) gave all proceeds to charity? Not so, according to the 990. The CFB revenue for 2003 was 911,367.00 (that would be almost 1 million dollars—oh, to be so poor!) The charitable contributions as result of this revenue? A whopping 18,500.00—wow! Now of course they had expenses out of this almost 1 million dollar revenue, the largest of which was: “Cost of Sales—CFB Learning Lab—418,803.” Guess who receives the Learning Lab Fee? Second: I thought no one was salaried at the University. So why did they pay $123,563 in salaries (this did NOT go to any board member)? How many salaries does this cover? If it is the salary of 30, then that is very inexpensive, but what if it is only the salary of 1? Third: I thought this place taught social responsibility. Is this why they invest so heavily in the stock market? Oh, I might add, they don’t invest in socially responsible companies. Some examples would include: Exxon, Merck, and Phizer, just to name a few. Look on the 990 Form to see the rest of investments. You might take a look a how well they invest while you’re there. They invested 428,023.00 and reported a loss of 81,516.00. Bottom Line: In 2003 The University reported a income of 1,202,575.00. Expenses were 827,524.00. They held 3,089,150 in assets. Please keep in mind that expenses included not only the money they lost playing the stock market, but also included a depreciation schedule for land, buildings, and equipment. Among the items depreciated was a Bonanza airplane. I hate to repeat myself and I do apologize, but “oh to be so poor!” In spite of all this information, the friends my daughter has at The University have benefited personally by bettering themselves—I just think it is a shame they believe they are working themselves so hard for a noble cause. You can look up any charitable organization at www.guidestar.org. The free membership allows you to look at the organizations 990 filings among other things. I urge each of you to go there and decide for yourself. I know this has gotten long, but please indulge me and let me close with this: THINK FOR YOURSELF. QUESTION AUTHORITY. Through human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness, chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself. THINK FOR YOURSELF. QUESTION AUTHORITY. ~Timothy Leary I would love to hear how such human givers justify investing their money in companies that have and continue to rape the American public. Thank you for your time. | ||
| clarity (clarity) New member Username: clarity Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 67.150.20.181 |
As I said it before in my last email, the experience at CPL was not all negative or unproductive on the contrary I got great value from struggling with the dificult situation there like healthy plants sometimes grow well when fertilizer is used. One of the things I learned at CPL is that only I can say what was valuable and meaningful during my three months there and only I can say what did not add to my life or was counter productive. As an extreme example, I read a book while in the program about a psychologist who found meaning and value living amidst the worst inhuman conditions in a Nazi concentration camp. Can't quite remember the name of the book but I think many readers here will. Many of his inmates did not find such meaning and value and committed suicide. So in other words an enviorment a person may be subjected to may appear to be of the worst nature still it is possible that value and meaning could be discovered there and maybe not. It depends on the individual. This is why I believe there are still some people at CPL who in all sincerity think its the greatest place on earth and would not even dream of going anywhere else. They are not necessarily all brainwashed and not seeing the real light. Of course their may be certain staff members who actually have some hidden agendas and nefarious motives meant to keep the little worker bees pacified and working for no material re numeration but that will not nessaryly stop one from getting something from being there. On the beneficial side of being a student at CPl I was placed on a very tight schedule which was very different than my unscheduled " be here now" type of existence. From this I can now appreciate how valuable each moment of time we have while living in this world. Being at CPL also added to my life by learning the value of including others in my life while being in social settings. I got to see that it was my generally habit before being in the student program to isolate and exclude other people in my life even while being around them. This was very valuable insight that I use even now. The classes also added to my life especially the ones where were expected to design and act out plays and dance performances. I discovered the joy of living a life of full expression. These activities at CPL added more depth and dimension to my life and helped me get that the key to staying truly alive and youthful is to keep an open mind to try on, learn, experiment, and experience new positive productive ways of living life. There are probably a few more beneficial teachings and experiences I got out of being at CPL also. There are things going on at CPL that a logical mind may consider dark and maybe even to the point of being diabolical, but many residents there have found some growth and meaning being there. Some individuals may find the CPL experience valuable for a moment, a day, month, a year or a lifetime. It really does not matter in truth that there is a an ultimate authority figure like Derwin manning the propaganda controls telling those who remain how wretched the person is who left the ultimate CPL utopia. The fragile controlled experimental enviorment has to be preserved at all cost I supose so those who soul lessons can find their way there. CPL was also an experiment. Derwin the mentor admitted to me that it was. Some experiments work, some don't, some may have mixed results. The experiment of immersing myself at CPL produced some mixed results. An inquiry that the present CPL members might make of themselves is asking what is actually working here in this experiment and producing effective productive results for others and what are they doing that doesn't really work, which is inducing the majority of students to leave bitter, feeling ripped off or maybe even damaged physiologically. Is it really most who leave is a whiner, complainer and critic without reason? As far as I can see from inside sources most of students are still leaving CPL before graduation. This is happening in spite of showing Navy seal hell week movies to boost the students egos that they are the cpl seals and are also part of an elite class of special persons in this world. The roll model we see in this movie is that the seal candidates are belittled, badgered, worn down, deprived of proper rest, overworked, subjected to induced confusion and many abnormal conditions. Why students are shown this movie by the TG can be easily deduced. It is to justify that in a similar way the elite student candidates at CPL will be facing similar abnormal stressful physically and phcologically demanding conditions and they should be prepared to endure it or be washed out like the seals. Hell week for the seals lasted only one week but the students at CPL have to go a whole year under tremendous pressure and the stress of being overworked and brow beaten regularly for not being perfect and responsible at every moment. I believe a good question to ask is how much of this experiment is working, what is the real cost? what is helpful, what part of the CPL training is so harmful that so many students leave disgusted and unsatisfied in some way ? And then start trimming the fat of what is not working. In the past I have done some other difficult to get through experimental human potential therapies and have found various degrees of value in them. CPL was no different in this way. On the practical side one can see what was helpful and beneficial to the organization. The restaurant had their freely laboring students working 6 and sometimes seven days a week for up to at least a year. Due to this free labor the CPL board members could also take more time off from the restaurant due to the students shouldering most of the load. Because the students and board members are part of the elite navy seal like team most have been motivated to give up family get togethers and eagerly show up working for free of charge on busy holidays that bring in a fortune of revenue for CPL. On the surface this may seem unfair to the washed out worker bees like myself and former disgruntled board members. But I think there is a new bent on a old saying that applyies here " happiness or meaning is in the eye of the beholder". William | ||
| movingon (movingon) New member Username: movingon Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 12.155.232.205 |
From CPL’s Website FAQ section: “The first thing to understand is that CPL’s work is intentionally different because it is an EXPERIMENT.” -- CPL Website FAQ section Another view: “Professionals engaged in legitimate supervised medical and psychological research are held to certain standards that have been in place since the end of WW II and the establishment of the Nuremburg code of ethics, which states that in any setting where any type of human experimentation is done, the experiment cannot be performed without the informed consent of those who are the participants. In getting this consent, the experimenters are to explain everything that will or may happen as a consequence of the person’s coming into the experimental program, and the person must be fully capable of understanding those consequences. In the modern civilized world, those experimented upon must give their consent--whether the experiment is medical or psychological. If any scientist or researcher accepting federal and state money were to carry out the kinds of social experiments in behavioral control practiced by many of today’s cults, they would surely be in deep trouble.” Margaret Singer, Cults in Our Midst, pp.79-80 The CPL “mentors” (self proclaimed counselors) are performing impermissible experiments with people’s lives and families, and doing so with an incredible air of superiority and infallibility; all the while basically practicing without any credentials or accountability for any “experiment” that may go wrong. Rather than play the ethical role of “objective” counselors their sessions instill fear in people that any choice but the choice to stay and serve at CPL is the lesser choice (“personality” is their word). CPL emphasizes the lesser choice (always lesser/negative/poor if it varies from theirs) is fraught with potential doom and failure. I observed this while there and have since read about it in other posts. This indoctrination has worked for the lifers there, and for some who come from troubled backgrounds of some kind, be it drugs, relationship failures, a need to belong, etc.. Many of these troubled recruits are merely swapping one escape-from-reality addiction for another. The leader has led them to believe he is a virtual master and follow him like eager puppies; I saw only a virtual charlatan and wannabe; another student used the word “egomaniac”. Perhaps these people need someone else dictating their lives and mandating and monitoring their daily schedules, decisions, work, service jobs, relationships, families, behaviors, etc., in order to be successful or fulfilled. Perhaps some need such a place but it would be much healthier if done in that way openly, admitting the guru-worship and dictatorship that it is, rather then alluding to CPL hierarchies knowing what is best for each persons soul and life and creating doubt and fear in some who may already be vulnerable. That, they clearly do, and that is dangerous and a true violation and distortion of spirituality in my opinion. CPL is betraying its followers by virtue of trying to convince all students and members that the leaders there know more about each person and each person’s soul than the person himself or herself. They advertise entrepreneurship training, finding meaning, and purpose in life and the training for world servers. In reality, my experience is that they actually disable people from being capable on their own in the world and create a reliance and dependency on their group. It takes a while to shake off the CPL experience, but once done, it can be seen for what it really is: a self-serving, self-CENTERED, self-aggrandizing “experiment” that has no business messing with people’s lives the way it does. I’m grateful that I listened to my intuition (of course they said I was fooling myself and that it was not my intuition or soul). They do not know, yet they pretend to (and likely believe they do). I shudder when I think of my time immersed there and to think of the people trapped there for life, but then perhaps that is best for them. I cannot know for them, but I do know for me AND my soul! | ||
| dallas (dallas) New member Username: dallas Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 209.30.89.27 |
It is hard for me to believe the posts that I have read in this column. For 15 years I have witnessed the loving goodness of the people at the Center for Purposeful Living. I have never been a part of the group, but I have been a vicarious visitor to the resturant, the class on being a Totally Responsible Person, and with many of the people who have been vilified in the previous posts. What is wrong with making the world more responsible, more loving, more accountable and more giving? What is all of this conversation around money? It seems so simple. This is a group that looks to serve. Period. There are so many who need so much. Why do we despise those who are willing to give without expectation of return? If I am naive, if I don't understand...so be it. If I see the good of loving hearts...there must be credit in the world for that. Why can't we have an open mind and an open heart? If those who go to be students at CPL don't find their place, it is not wrong...it is a choice. Having seen the activities there for many years, I know, for sure, that everyone is at choice. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
What service do they do nowadays? | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.159 |
They provide good, healthy, tasty food at a reasonable price. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
Somehow that justifies their existence as a non-profit organization and a cult? | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.63 |
What? You asked what service they do nowadays, and I gave you an example. I am sure they have a dark side, as you have pointed out. But I haven't found an organization yet that doesn't. Someone once said something to the effect of "the closer you get to the center of an organization, the stronger the smell." So, choose your distance wisely. Things look different from the outside. Personally, I like it that way and plan on staying pretty much on the outside, and to enjoy the good food, the cleanliness, friendly service, and occassional heartfelt singing. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
So how is running a for profit restaurant a service to humanity? If that's the case I know a lot of really good people. | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.63 |
Good food, good service, nice atmosphere, reasonable price. That is a genuine service to humanity, no matter who does it. But do you really think they are doing it (volunteering at night after working at their regular job) for the profit? | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
If it weren't for the restaurant the cult wouldn't have money to operate. I guess service to humanity has been degraded so much that the people at the Center for Purposeful Living get a pass for running a cult in your mind because they have a decent business on the side funding it. | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.46 |
As I have indicated above, the CFB service (supplying food) is not just "decent", it is great. And I have been a very regular customer for several years. You accuse these people of operating a "cult" which I take you to mean something negative. I have read what you and others have said. I expect you have more exposure to the "inside" of HSA than I do. I regret the pain some of you have gone through. I cannot debate your experience. All I know to tell you is that as someone who has known a lot of these people and their work for many years, I see them as flawed humans, making some mistakes, sometimes bad ones, but also doing some good things, even great things. (Message edited by bsjones on October 12, 2005) | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
You strike me as the kind of person who would have followed Hitler into Poland. The mentality of 'they've done no wrong to me personally' has gotten a great many innocent people killed throughout history. | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.231 |
Really? All right then. I must have missed something. Please give me an example of something that these people are doing that leads you to compare them to Hitler? | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
I made no such comparison. | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.112 |
Then why bring it up? | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
Because YOU strike me as the kind of person that would follow Hitler into Poland, not CPL. Your reading ability seems foggy at best. Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote and readdress.} | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.84 |
This thread is about CPL, not me. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
But it's your type of mentality that leads more people into the fray. California Fresh Buffet is a recruiting platform of sorts (if not be design then by side effect). If people see "good" things happening there then people are inclined to give their hard earned money and possibly dedicate some time to the efforts to an organization that has been deemed by those on the inside and outside as a cult. So to sit here and project "they haven't hurt me" and "they can't be bad people" not only continues to hurt those that have been there but hurts those that haven't been there and are considering going. You're right this thread isn't about you. But the ideas you've projected here are ideas that are thought by those considering CPL a legitimate organization doing good (and no, running a restaurant isn't "doing good" on the grand scale CPL says they are doing good). | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.46 |
Let me be clear about what I am saying: CPL has two sides IMO - good and bad. Let the buyer beware (i.e. prospective student/volunteer). There are things that trouble me about the group. The secrecy is one. You say they are "bad", and you have some good points. But, I see some genuine "good things". Have you ever eaten at CFB? We can both be right. | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
Okay... Since you won't concede that the mere running of a restaurant (for profit and benefiting the Center for Purposeful Living) isn't merely a front and thus a bad thing then allow me to ask you something: If Enron/WorldCom/Tyco (criminal corporations) donated billions to charities would that make them a good corporation? At least for me the answer is no. No matter how much good you've done still doesn't outweigh the fact that you've ruined thousands of people's lives. Sure CPL isn't on the "thousands" scale (yet) but the "good" they do does not outweigh their evil. To answer your question, no, I haven't eaten at California Fresh Buffet. I haven't been near Winston-Salem in probably four years and I wouldn't want to give my money to an organization that has harmed so many people (myself and members of my family included). | ||
| bsjones (bsjones) New member Username: bsjones Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 66.43.139.152 |
I can see what you are saying about Enron, etc.. A corrupt organization might "do some good", just for show, for PR. I'm sure a lot of them do. I don't think that is the case with CPL. I have found them to be a sincere service-providing organization, with what seems like some unhealthy elements on the inside. I never felt that it was the right place for me (to be on the inside). And sometimes people need to leave. It must take great courage and strength to do that, and I would say a sign of maturity. Then I think it would be wise to get some distance, and try to see things clearly, the good and the bad. (Message edited by bsjones on October 21, 2005) (Message edited by bsjones on October 21, 2005) | ||
| oaf357 (oaf357) New member Username: oaf357 Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 24.9.6.201 |
The small amount of good that I've seen in the Center for Purposeful Living was when they were called Human Service Alliance and were caring for the terminally ill. Of course, that is the same cult I distanced myself from years upon years ago. They don't do that anymore and I'm pretty sure you get the point that merely running a restaurant isn't my idea of "good". | ||
| nburazer (nburazer) New member Username: nburazer Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 71.141.111.119 |
For the record, I encourage anyone that comes in contact with this group to be VERY VERY VERY careful. If you think this is a good place for your child to "study", please reconsider. Human Service Alliance / University of Human Goodness / Center for Purposeful Living IS a cult and I know first hand, I was there Day One in Boomer, NC. Everyday of my life I am thankful that I left the group and I am so very happy to read that Chris, Coleman, LeAura and others have also "awoken" and have taken their precious lives back! There is something to be said for being able to think for yourself, it might be one of the most beautiful things about being alive. My family and I just wish we could have our father back. I still love him, I know that he is just in a really deep sleep right now. It's my understanding that he isn't "allowed" to talk to us. We have all but given up on him. Word to the wise... steer clear of this organization. I am not interested in getting into a dialogue about this matter, I just wanted to get on record against this group in hopes of saving another family. Sincere regards, Nathan Burazer e-mail: burazer@hotmail.com (Message edited by nburazer on December 13, 2005) |
