| Author | Message | ||
     sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
new thread ... | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 41 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Can the moderator freeze the last series of posts about Lyn at ........... 666 We can start here to continue. Things are easier to follow when we stick to one thread. It is also easier for yutes and interested parties when they try to understand the Bizarro world of Larouche. The editing of Larouche makes a huge difference Howie. We used to have a few people who were professional level editors who could correct all of the historical inaccuracies and make Lyn look reasonable as you noticed. Lately, it is basically unedited and that pretty much is reflective of how Larouche really thinks. The most difficult concept to grasp with is that you have a delusional man who really believes what he writes while at the same time feeling boldy empowered by the surrounding sycophants. All this takes place while telling non stop whoppers and misleading people. The best example of this is during the cross examinations during the trials. Larouche would tell an incredualous jury and prosecutor with a straight face that he has no idea of how things like cars, security guards, mansions, farm animals, cash for mobsters, SST first class tickets, food and clothing all magically appear for him. The other thing to understand is that many years ago we had pretty bright people who did research and wrote thigns which Larouche then claimed as his own. The figure you should us is that if it sounds rationale, 90 to 95 % of it came from someone else. If it sounds crazy then 90 to 95 % came from him. If it is so over the top bat sh*t crazy, then give him a 100 % perfect grade. Since so many members with real brains and skills left years ago, Larouche has basically cloned his delusions via the remaining deadenders like Jeff Steinberg, Tony Chaitkin, Wertz and a few others. The next tier are too busy trying to stay alive by teaching part time school and contributing a few stories as the LYM force them out the street. The REAL undertanding of Larouche is from the numerous scam artist outside security people who know how to use Larouche's delusions and thievery against him. If you wonder how why a cult can gross several million a year and starve people, that will be answered later. Bunko artists themselves become victims to better bunko artists by playing up the greed and delusions of the mark. Lyn may not have the Mark of the beast on hius forehead, but, he definately has the Mark of silly guy with money and cult on his forehead when Jeff Steinberg and Paul Goldstein introduce Lyn to their "friends". Considering how Jeff is very busy making his case for the post Lyn LC these days, one wonders if Lyn has calculated how much he has lost as Jeff sets up his own franchise among the LYM. Steinberg's wife's notebooks were big on evidence for prosecutors and investigators, but Lyn went to jail not them. Just a thought. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.125.93.18 |
What xlcr4lief writes reminds me of the TV show Hustle with the Man 4 Uncle. You can always hook a greedy person to a scheme, and the NCLC seems to have fallen repeatedly for such people as Roy Frankhausen and Mitch Werbell and not to mention Carto and company and others I never knew. And just as the rightwing lunatics used the NCLC to get their views out in the past, I'm sure the Libyans, Iranians and others look at LaRouche today in a similar way, as just anotehr "useful idiot" as Lenin called them. Of course, if some Iranian or Russian intelligence agency thinks that Lyn has any influence in US circles they will feed him some info and some flattery as to how much they recognize his importance as a world leader, probably in the hopes of reaching some backdoor channels as was done back in the time of the Reagan Admin with the likes of Bobby Inman and others who believed LaRouche had a "credible" intelligence operation. As to the language issue, having been in the organization where we actually encourage people to read things like Hegel's Phenomenology of Mind and Kant's Critiques of Pure and Practical Reason, I began consdering LaRouche's use of interminable sentences with myriad dependent and independent clauses a reflection of classical thinking a la the complete obtuseness of reading Hegel. But for one, I didn't read Hegel in the original German so I can't vouch for how impenetrable his language actually might have been. But I later learned that the ability to write interminiable sentences with no correlation between subject and object is not the sign of classical learning but just the classic trick of a charlatan feigning learning by being esoteric. Lyn always hated writers who wrote direct, straight ideas like Hemingway. Why sacrifice obscurantism for clarity? Because it's harder to detect what a fraud you are and people think that by being impossible to understand what you are saying must be significant. | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 42 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
That show was called "The man from U.N.C.L.E." Borisbad. I guess the show with Jeff, Paul and the others could be called 'The Men from a Monkey's Uncle" Now we are going to end this myth of how Lyn is either the developer or inspiration for so many things you see him huffing and puffing about to naive college drop outs. When you are in an insular world of a cult of personality you are cut off from so many sources and discussions of what takes place every day on this planet. Lyn gives you tasks to do because he has to run your life and like a starving ghost writer, he can pay you nothing and add his name to your hard work. This has been going on for decades. We had a guy named Bill Engdhal who was so angry over this that he copyrighted his writings and then left with an FU. Another guy wrote a book which we published which was printed in the tens of thousands for years. He got jack s**t for that and after leaving years ago he still sees the book sold. Seriously yutes, do you think you get royalties for going to Lyn's bunker, er basement and making him look good to other yutes? This is like a cult version of three card monte where after every turn you owe more and more. Now onto destroying some myths. A long time ago, in a country far, far away . A wealthy island of massive cash holdings do to massive exports called Japan was the new up and coming Money Empire. This was during the 1970s when almost all of you yute's parents were on their first date. Japan had so much in cash holdings that everyone thought they would rule and buy the world. This always happens when dollars flow into a place at a high clip whether it is Mid East oil nations or China today or SOuth Korea a few years ago. When the yutes live a few more years and read things like the WSJ or basic things like Business Week, Forbes, Fortune , The Economist or even Better Homes and Gardens instead of Larouche they will get the picture. Since Japan had so much cash it was debated where to park it all. Out of this came Mitsubishi Heavy Industry and a division of theirs which worked with some other Japanese talent and set this up: http://www.ecdc.net.cn/partners/gif.htm GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE FUND or GIF was known by a few of our bright talent who did research and found this to be a very positive plan. Look at the map and you will see The Kra Canal, Second Paname Canal, a train line from Russia to the US via Alaska and Mid East water projects. All of this was a way in which Japanese cash holdings could be used to expand more Japanese business which would finance and build this. You see a similar thinking today where China invests in other countries to get a foothold on future business. A few days ago in the WSJ you could read about South Korea trying to build a Steel plant in India in which the locals are not too thrilled. The same WSJ also had an article on a real breakthrough in laying super conducter power lines below Manhattan. If you are not at a card table shine on Manhattan streets than you would know what is happening below the card table shrine This stuff happens every day of the year and depends on many factors including political stability, finance, need , environmental and other real issues. This work does not depend on an 84 year old cult leader who can make college drop outs ooooh and ahhhh over a shiny projector slide and a warning that HELL will appear if no one adopts the larouche Plan. | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 43 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Each of the items I mentions has been absconded by Lyn as his creativity as he hitched himself to that and added whatever local lunacy to fit the bill. When Lyn's forehead blood vessels pop about his demand that the USA, China and India must save the planet or we are doomed, remember that in the 1970s I other here were running around with copies of New Solidarity which had Lyn predicting the end of the economy unless the US saved the British Pound! A little later when we started to try to sell EIR subs to Russian contacts we were big on a transferable Ruble to save mankind. When we shifted and started to call up Reagan supporter cold calling lists Lyn demanded Gold Backed US Bonds to save humanity and make the gold bugs we called like us. When we courted old Germans and Helga felt left out we called for a Duetchemark based plan to have Germany export everything to the Third World to save. Of course Lyn has to keep you busy with a never ending cascade of enemies, demons and conspiracies. If he didn't you would ask your self if this really is a cult or a bad joke being played out. Did you ever wonder how come there is never a day on the briefing without something coming to an end as we know it? Lyn figured this out with operation Mop Op, the Chris White brainwashing hoax and numerous other lunacies. When members found something worth supporting like the GIF project, he claimed it as his own but did invent the delusions to go with it to keep you going around the clock. So look at that URL and see that this all came from real people which is why there is enough to make you want to stick around, but enough lunacy to make most of us leave. If you stay in school and get into an MIT, then you can actually work on this http://web.mit.edu/mit-tdp/www/about.html#about as a career and do something constructive instead of a career at a card table shrine. The people who actually have something to do with these projects would be laughed out of the room if they brought in Larouche. Now that is yet another story for another day. As you run through the halls of Congress and other places yelling about the Queen of England and doubling the cube, don't misinterpret what people in these offices tell you. I work with the public and meet a lot of elected officials. When we have a person which we feel is nuts, potentially disruptive, a threat or annoyance to our clients we all do the same thing. We put our arms out to the person and say "I understand what you are going through and will follow up on this. Take my card and stay in touch, have a great day" as we escort them to another room or the exit to defuse them. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
I would now like to move the discussion up again to the doctrinal level, namely to the pseudoscience of the "LaRouche-Riemann Method." On the website back when I was prepping up to join was some of the stuff on the Method. Supposedly this led to the capability for a "metric standard for cognition." This sounded pretty good and at the Spring '00 Conference in Reston I remember Lyn mentioning his "per capita/per sq kilometer" formulation. So I thought there was apparently something pretty heavy going on here and that it must be a scientific/philosophical breakthrough I'd come to comprehend better in due course. Also around the time of the very first cadre schools Lyn had an essay on how the election of EITHER Bush or Gore would mean a quick plunge of the world into the New Dark Age; the essay stated that "the relative potential population density of the planet" was plummeting. I think this concept is or used to be central to establishing that Lyn is in truth the world's greatest economist. Some of the Russians actually tried to pick up on this and define the "la" as the unit of PRP density. Lyn never developed this---I guess because it can't be developed. It's all basically blather. If some of the original member-posters know anything about the emergence of the Method and how it became the case that Lyn had ALWAYS been the master of Riemannian and relativistic physics, I'd like to hear it. And maybe the yutes can specify just exactly what IS the "LaRouche-Riemann Method." | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
well gang, the forum has been fascinating the last couple of weeks, and not having ever been a member, i have been reluctant to add my own thoughts...but i am reading larouche's first " power of reason " autobiography, circa 1976, and was very surprised to come across this: " By adopting the Bretton Woods agreements, the United States had committed the essential errors of Versailles in a new form. Granted, we did not go so far with "war-reparations " as Versailles had gone. We committed every other principled blunder all over again. We rejected the specific proposals of John Maynard Keynes, but we stuck with the Warburg monetarist line. This folly ruined our management of the war-debt accumulation - which should have been handled as Alexander Hamilton would have handled it. " well, it goes on from there - pages 80-81 if you care to look in your own copies... if anyone can correct me on this, i would be thankful, but i thought that bretton woods was, according to larouche, the system that saved the world , and allowed for a rebuilding of the shattered economies of europe and japan... for what it's worth, this book is no easier to read than anything larouche has written recently...but, to be fair, i am completely unschooled in either economics or mathematics, and perhaps it would make more sense to me were that not the case... | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
one more thing has occurred to me: not one mention of FDR yet - about halfway through the book, and past the point where i would have expected to find one, since larouche does write of his life in a more or less chronological fashion... interesting...not, of course, that this negates anything larouche is saying today...it's just that larouche has been extolling the virtues of bretton woods and FDR for as long as i can remember...and since there are many here of late who have had long experience with the organization, i am wondering if anyone can tell me approximately when larouche adopted FDR as his patron saint?...and why? | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
1. LaRouche-Riemann method does not exist. NEC members and others who tried to work on it in the 1990s discovered that there was nothing to it--and no wonder, since it was supposed to be the method that quantified and predicted the unquantifiable nonlinear creative breakthroughs and paradigm shifts LaRouche was always going on about. The notion of a "metric standard for cognition" fits right in with this--quantifying the creative (which, incidentally, LaRouche otherwise always insisted couldn't be done). 2. In first edition of Power of Reason, you see indeed that Bretton Woods system is everything that's wrong with the world. That was LaRouche's position throughout--emphatically so, for example, on Aug. 15, 1971, when Nixon took dollar off gold--until LaRouche's latter-day discovery that he was FDR made him re-think all that and promote New Bretton Woods. 3. When I joined the organization LaRouche was (absurdly) characterizing FDR as a fascist, with programs identical to Mussolini's. Later on, when LaRouche decided to become a Democrat, he had another breakthrough-discovery: Democrats liked FDR. So suddenly, he discovered that FDR was a god. This started to happen in 1980, when LaRouche showed up as a Democrat, and picked up steam throughout the 1980s, to the point that some time in the early 1990s, a major LaRouche electoral vehicle was FDR PAC (name later changed to LaRouche PAC, when LaRouche discovered he was FDR). FDR PAC/LaRouche PAC replaced the NDPC, which had legal issues and needed to disappear. | ||
| shadok New member Username: shadok Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 |
The larouche-Riemann "method", or model, was developped in the 70s by ppl like Uwe Henke v Parpart (who introduced Riemann to lyn) or David Goldman who, unlike Lyn, studied economics and maths. What I heard is that the model was eventually dropped by lyn, although it was claimed to be the best model of forcasting in the world. The reason I heard it was dropped was that it didnt predict what lyn wanted it to predict, ie the collapse of the US economy! Maybe so BUT if this model of prediction was so good and authoritative, the org could have cashed in millions from governments and large corporate industries. That in itself PROVES it never existed. As for the RPPD... the key word is "potential", and lyn uses it in a literary sense rather than in a scientific way. This is wonderful cos, in the end, he is the only one to "estimate" what this "potential" is. It resides in the etheral world of hypotheses (ie meta-physics) where lyn belongs, not reality. This "potential" is like you having a newer, faster car that potentially could drive you quicker from A to B. Now, obviously it doesnt mean you ll get there quicker, there are many other factors... This notion of "potential" purely limited to technology (or the "idea" of a techological breakthrough) is, in itself, wrong, far too simplistic... That s why the socalled larouche-Riemann method doesnt work. You cannot reduce economics to... physics (ie Riemann) The "physics" of economic processes are only one aspect of a far more complex reality. But the key word is "potential" and indeed lyn could "potentially" be the next president of the United States.  | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 44 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Charltonrom, after many years of either being a reader of LC lit or selling it, I found that "The Larouche-Rieman" method is truly the Alpha and the Omega of the many goofy things which are accepted and never challenged. Asking another member to explain it either brought the shortest response as no one ever could explain it or you heard some two hour long explanation then went around the word a few times in a local class. This is one of those things like asking about why the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was in the Dope Inc book. You get a shrug or you get a convoluted hour long dissertation which covers everything except what you ask. If you stay in school you will notice that your grasp of something can be measured by how short you can summarise something for a person who asks you a question. The real answer is that in a cult of personality the personality MUST have his or her name attached to something to impress. We had a Swarthmore Professor named Uwe Parpart as an NEC member who wrote a translation with others I think called 'The Cantor" Campaigner. My guess is that a guy like Lyn was getting upstaged by Uwe P. who was a degreed professional who could actually do serious math. Uwe P later dissed Lyn big time when he appeared on CBS news as an expert on SDI and not Lyn. Uwe P actually may be involved in financing development projects today. I myself and the yutes should find it laughable to consider Lyn knwoledgeable of even basic math. My kids have a better concept of math since they can add and subtrtact and thus can deduce profit or loss. If you ever looked at how the World's greatest economist spends yutes money you see that this concept is clearly not known by him as every business associated with him goes bankrupt with a catastrophic loss. We had a book store in downtown Leesburg which we bought and spent another few hundred thousand remodelling. At the time I thought it would be interesting to have a book store which could sell and trade in exotic original books and in basic books reflecting the many things we were interested in. That got run into the ground and people have told me that it ended up as a two story version of a card table shrine. There was a manager of sorts who eventually left the LC with her husband who would know some more. I drive by plenty of bookstores run by "Aquarian Conspiracy" ex hippies and bored suburban moms which have more business sense and understand math better than Lyn. If you were to figure out a real Larouche acclade for posterity I would suggest this: "The Larouche-Schacht Method" Lyn's breakthrough in economic was how to use vitual slave labor of the LC/LYM to prop up his master er Golden Soul race fantasies. He extracted whatever was of value from the Jews in his operations and then let the few Jews left alive inside to administer the remaining smoldering carcases of a starved membership. He ordered and laid plans to carry out a looting of senior citizen funds and then claimed ignorance of the matter. Whatever was needed but did not have cash for was simply gotten through taking. Lyn like Schacht tamed inflation to the point where in current dollars, a present LYM member works more for less than 25 years ago. This joker must have used the "Larouche-Rieman visuals to be the only person in the history of Northern Virginia to buy thousands of acres of prime land cheap in the 1980s and then lose it all. Yutes, Walt Disney was a better economist when you see how he built Disney World real estate holdings. Lyn was also maybe the only person who could buy a radio station in the 1980s and lose a small fortune after radio stations were deregulated. Ask your local NC about what happened to WLYN in Maryland. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Charltonrom, on "per capita/per sq kilometer" formulation" let me give you my take. When we were publishing non crazy articles about Fusion projects around the Globe Lyn would mention something called "Energy Flux Density". What this was, was looking at how much energy could be concentrated per a fixed volume. This was then defined as how to determine whether an energy source was worthy of usage. In my mind back then it seemed plausible that a high amount of energy measured in BTUs per fuel volume was a valid metric to use. However, in the Bizarro world of the LC, this was used to justify Lyn's usual hate think about something like solar energy of other sources. You did not just think that solar was not as efficient as a quadrillion dollar fusion project which has yet to make electricity to light up a bulb, but you must hate solar power with a passion. You must hate the people who promote solar power and then hate them some more because they are going to kill a few billion people by promoting solar power. All I know is that I have some nice solar lights in my gardens and in front of the house which were easy to install and cheap and do not cost me anything each month to run. After I left the LC it occured to me that the only metric from the consumer was whether there was adequate electricity at a stable voltage and amperage with a continual supply at a set rate. That is what was important as the consumer could care less about the energy flux density. The final user determined the energy flux density with a transformer and capaciters. In larouche think, the metrics are determined by the whims of Lyn to satisfy the dogma at that particular moment. Thus in everything promoted there is no real exchange of different requirements as the requirement is Lyn. I got into trouble many a time by simply asking questions that to me seemed obvious. We had a woman named Shiela Jones run for the Mayor of Chicago. In her platform was a call for using a Maglev train to replace the existing CTA heavy rail. I asked the local NCs if this does not sound stupid as the cost of retrofitting an existing and operational subway line would be incredibaly expensive, massively disruptive, and a waste as who needs a Maglev to go 10 city blocks? "Why not just upgrade the rail and track systems and expand some lines?" Whoa, that would not reverse the coming depression which need the infusion of three trillion dollars in gold backed bonds to reverse the New Dark Ages and thwart the upcoming KGB/Russian Orthodox Church takeover of the Dem Party and the West. This to me is how the LC often works where a legit or semi legit concept is used which a person can recognise and then slowly be "Laroucheified" to the point of absurdity. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
Oh that is too good; the LaRouche-Schacht Method! The yutes have been indoctrinated into the narrative that world history was forever shifted after Lyn's 1971 debate with Abba Lerner. http://larouchein2004.net/pages/other/2004/040305lerner.htm For there, Lyn had exposed definitively how operates the world oligarchy: namely through insidious Schactian-style labor recycling, as down in Brazil at that time. From this point, then, the oligarchy recognized Lyn as their primary foe and deadliest enemy, and determined to stop him by all means necessary---including death. The ramifications of this world-historical, earth-shaking 1971 debate at Queens College percolate down to the present day; for the international oligarchy convened and "determined that they would never let another one of theirs face off against LaRouche again." If the LYM are indeed "turning into geniuses" as I was once told, aren't they too smart to eat this type of thing? | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
The whole canard that is the "LaRouche-Riemann method" (so jarring to have the name of a charlatan yoked to the name of one of the most imaginative mathematicians in history - sounds rather like the Curly-Dalai Lama method) begins with all of this blather about "linearity." Linearity is a property of equations in which, if an equation satisfies two specific criteria, the equation is linear, and if not, it is nonlinear. Many if not most equations descriptive of real-world phenomena are nonlinear, and many of them do not permit of exact (so-called analytic) solutions, which situation makes this a fascinating field of research. Generally one can think of a linear function (an equation is merely one type of function or relation or operation) this way: let y (the dependent variable) be dependent upon x (the independent variable) such that any change in x effects a change in y. Let "a" be a constant, let "z" be an independent variable togther with x, and let "y=f(x)" denote y as a function of (i.e., dependent upon) x. Then a linear function (equation) is simply one for which it is the case that both y = f(x) + f(z) = f(x+z) AND y = f(ax) = af(x). A nonlinear function is a function which does not satisfy at least one of those properties. It is not at all fancier than that. THERE IS NO DEEPER POINT TO IT. So then Lyn declares linearity is "bad." We must eschew all linearity. Well, for sane people, there's no getting round it. Now he has the current crop of young victims playing around with compass and STRAIGHTEDGE to avoid any need to simply state, say, the Pythagorean Theorem. The lie that they are swallowing whole is that somehow by constructing c^2 = a^2 + b^2 out of the gate each and every time they are sticking it to the man. Interestingly, it is that theorem which expresses the linearity in the small if you will which is at the foundation of calculus. It matters not a whit whether you regard an infinitesimal ontologically as a monad or as a truly vanishing entity - those are all sophistic considerations. But the perversity of this whole "nonlinear" project is all based on the most convoluted and twisted thinking that one can imagine. And, by the way, both Gauss and Riemann were the greatest admirers of Newton: I think their estimate of Newton is of far greater importance than that of Little Lyndy with his T-square, lachrymose puss, and failing grade in elementary plane geometry. LYM: you are just playing around in mathematics. Go back to school and take a class in elementary group theory and let that open your eyes to a lot of what you are pottering around with at present. You will be truly amazed at the power of abstraction and generalization, not getting bogged down in individual cases like a chimpanzee with a stick poking for ants. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
Key to LaRouche's pathology in terms of Euclid is his telling remark somewhere that as a 14-year-old, he rejected Euclid's axioms and postulates. Of course he did! He is the ultimate oedipo-anarchist, rejecting all authority but his own. So OF COURSE when he was 14 and couldn't do plane geometry he responded by rejecting the basis for the Euclidean system. What a dreadful kid he must have been. LaRouche dislikes linearity because it's testable and intelligible and repeatable. He likes quasi-mystical ineffable gobbledy-gook instead, and calls it creative mentation--and he likes it because it is unintelligible and therefore no one can call him on it. It's impossible to discuss. Speaking of discussion, here's a test to try with LaRouche, LYMers: Copy down verbatim something he said a week ago or a month ago, and then insert it into a LYM cadre school "dialogue" with LHL. Say, "I was just thinking about X, and I thought--" and then read, word for word, whatever it was of LaRouche's you copied down. Then sit back and watch LaRouche say, "No no no" or "You're missing the point," or "The issue is" and proceed to tear apart his own dictum--because he thinks he's attacking what you said, and because LaRouche cannot possibly let anyone say anything without attacking it or correcting it. More than one Labor Committee member has tried this, as a litmus test on the way out the door. P.S. Another reason LaRouche hates Euclid is that he hates lines and points (see Sancho on LaRouche's insanity in terms of linearity). LaRouche likes things like vortices--he likes circularity (and how!), so has to make Euclid and the Euclidean system into a Babylonian/Aristotelian cult attack on Plato. It's also fun to watch LaRouche go crazy over the Fifth Postulate, as if it made Euclid the Devil's Spawn. Of course, Plato didn't see things that way, but on the other hand, Plato let Aristotle hang around with him for 20 years or so at the Academy, so what did Plato know? Also--LYMers--if you want to satisfy yourselves forever that LaRouche knows squat about Plato, read the dialogues and ask yourself every few pages, "Can Lyn possibly be right that Plato is the Philosopher of Becoming?" The answer is, of course, NO, JUST THE OPPOSITE. As you will see. | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
And let us not miss the doctrinal point (which may be different from the doctrine's functional/propaganda point, in holding together the organization from quick dissolution for a while longer): the yutes are engaged in forging a New Scientific Revolution! based on recovering the method of True Science, namely the method of Kepler which is also that of Gauss and Riemann and Planck (and Lyn) and such other few pure figures as Cusa and Plato. You see, the Greeks had a true method, called Sphaerics; this was consciously attacked by Aristotle, one of the arch-fiends; the method was crushed by the Romans who utilized Ptolemy's fraud (Lyn buys the discredited thesis that Ptolemy's work was just a big fraud) to inaugurate the Dark Age. Only with Cusa, THE "founder of European experimental science" as Lyn puts it in his theory treatises, was pure method recovered. Cusa, Leonardo and Kepler, good; Galileo and Newton, not only bad, but LACKEYS of the oligarchy. Perhaps the supremest doctrinal value: the work of Leibniz was also a victim of oligarchic machination. Leonhard Euler (one of the heroes/saints in the 80's) got dumped in the villain bin later, where he remains to this day, along with D'alembert and LaGrange. Gauss' critical remarks on their treatment of numbers, which was a field in rather a nascent state, reveal that they were actually mere agents, laboring along with Voltaire and "pretty boy" Francesco Algarotti to stop republics from forming while lowering a deadening cloak of Newtonian mechanism over the world. Thus, education must recapitulate the original discoveries of the original discoverers. Members of Congress must master the Mysterium Cosmographicum and World Harmonies of Kepler, if the nation is to have maglev. I will say that Lyn is a foil for reflections on the history of science, and I'm all for more of that, but his own doctrine has little beyond entertainment value. | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
Lest anyone think I'm making up any of the above, just consult gems like "Non-Newtonian Mathematics for Economists"; Lyn's original explanations of why the LYM and the world MUST recover the 1799 version of Gauss' algebra proof; and recent yute reports from Capitol Hill. www.schillerinstitute.org/ fid_91-96/954_Non_Newt_math.html larouchein2004.net/pages/ speeches/2003/030713ecscover.htm If I'm not mistaken much of the early 90's stuff like the Voltaire demonizing came to Lyn through Web Tarpley. It's true that Voltaire attacked Leibniz but it's amazing how the organization can find oligarchic tendrils everywhere. | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
It may well be that Lyn attracted more intelligent recruits in the sixties and early seventies than the Visigothic LYM of today precisely because he himself was more intelligent at that time than he was post-1972 when no one was permitted to contradict him any longer in any fundamental way. By clamping down on free discussion within the LC, Lyn just screwed himself out of maintaining a truly intellectual life (even though people around the CP, SWP, and Spartacist League who knew him in the forties through early sixties said that he always was a megalomaniac.) But truth and justice have never been Lyn's goals, just decades of being allowed to act out through perpetual enactment of his childhood trauma, whatever that might have been. The characterization of LaRouche's scribblings as a Mad Libs game is scarily apt. I regret that I squandered so much of my life on this non-sense. Consider the sheer childishness - and infantile rage - of this procedure: Gauss is good. Gauss disagrees with/improves upon Euler, Legendre, et al. Euler, Legendre, et al. are therefore evil. Therefore the memory of Euler, Legendre, et al. is to be trashed. Perhaps someone with a background in psychiatry who reads this board can supply some clinical terminology for these behaviors of Lyn and his epigonoi. In the meantime, I'll just regard the whole thing as 100% nuts. P.S. The LYM should know that Lyn became a true tyrant after he was cuckolded by a younger man just as Lyn Marcus was turning fifty. That is the simple truth behind the Chris White "brainwashing" affair. Is this the sort of man for whom you want to give your life? For whom you wish to neglect your education and your development into mature men and women? For whom you wish to drive your family and friends to despair? Think about it. | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
One more observation regarding linearity, as it is a good illustration of Lyn's confused "thinking": for years he has regularly conflated linearity in mathematics and the sciences with linearity in thought and creativity. As everyone knows, great creative advances usually do not result from linear, deductive thinking. That fact does not invalidate specific claims within a discipline in which are embedded linear properties. (Rules of logical inference come into play once it becomes necessary to prove and communicate the results of the creative process.) Since true creativity is nonlinear, one cannot predict the outcome of creative research or artistic production. Therefore no true creativity can exist under the aegis of LaRouche or any of his organizations, since everything has to fit neatly into his unusual worldview - or else. More for the LYMers to chew on ... since they are rather short of food ... | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
Absolutely true, Sancho, taking linearity to mean deductive reason. Despite LaRouche's "ideas," the Greeks were not so hot on creativity as they were on understanding what Is. In the different kinds of thought Plato uses the Divided Line to talk about in The Republic, creativity is not his chief concern; knowing the Good is. Totally opposite to Plato, quasi-pseudo-sorta-Marixst LaRouche concludes that man is called upon to play the role of God in creating the universe, or to be more precise, He, Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., is tapped to be God. When he used to blather about individual sovereignty, he was talking about his own Sovereignty. When he babbled about creativity, he was talking about his own, as you put it so nicely, unusual worldview and unusual thinking process. LYMers: You don't think he's talking about you guys, do you? In LaRouche World, you are not sovereign, you are not individual, and you are not creative. You are the raw material that LaRouche in his divinity molds, makes, unmakes. Especially unmakes. | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
I think it was this issue that caused Eric Lerner to leave: once it became clear that Lyn was plastering a fixed, Platonic ceiling to human development (the development of the noosphere), Eric could see where this thing was going and got the hell out of there. The incessant demand for "creativity" is a very nineteenth-century one. It also helps create an environment conducive to creative accounting, creative lodging, and creative mendacity. LaRouche is a "Platonist" for all the reasons Popper decries Plato as a fascist in _The Open Society and Its Enemies_ - especially those reasons that have to do with lies and manipulation of others. Apart from his truly magnificent prose style, I happen to think Plato was largely full of s---. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
Well, I don't agree on Plato--although I don't think he was an unalloyed blessing, either, and I do understand why you say what you say--there is some basis for it. There are some very strange and difficult things in Plato. But I'm not sure Plato really believes in the noble lie and manipulation of others in the way that it's pitched--or seems to be pitched--in The Republic. It's not clear to me that The Republic expresses Plato's views of the matter at all (or Socrates'), except possibly at the very end--the Republic laid up in the heavens. And of course in The Republic irony is so thick on the ground you bark your shins on it.... Plato is an adept of ambiguity, and LaRouche is just an adept of confusion. In any case--one of the dangerous (and this is fascist) aspects of the fetishism of creativity is that it marks as subhuman anyone whom the Master deems "uncreative." Because of LaRouche's ignorant insistence that the imago dei set forth in Genesis means creativity, he's basically saying if you ain't creative, you ain't made in the image of God and therefore you ain't entitled to be treated as human. This of course accords with the way he is constantly categorizing his enemies (Kissinger, Cheney, Gore, Whoever) as subhuman, not human, inhuman, etc. Dangerous thing to do. It's just a very good thing that LaRouche never got serious power. You may well be right about Eric Lerner. I never knew exactly what the situation was there, although I remember him, of course. | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 46 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Part of the Eric Lerner Story can be solved not by Plato or Aristotle but the Godfather movie. Eric was a very, very bright guy who had credentials,a degree from Columbia and was doing Grad level work. He came around the LC and was at home in the initial FEF building phase. It was at that time that I myself became attracted to the LC via the FEF since it complemented my younger desire for doing something to promote Fusion Energy. We started with a small Fusion Energy newsletter which became Fusion magazine. Along with that we had a quarterly I think called the IJFE - Intl Journal of Fusion Energy. So far so good. except Larouche's "Golden Rule" came int play. Lyn's golden rule says that you do the work, I get the credit, the glory, the worship and I get the money, all of it. Lyn smelled money and Fusion magazine went from a nice magazine to our number one airport card table shrine product. It was like having Nuclear powered Krishna or Moonies at the airport where instead of a Moonie/Krishna book we had nice scientific magazines. Today the card table shrines go right to the self named LPAC, LYN books and of course self named LYM. Now what happened from the snippets I heard was that Eric developed a process of desalinization which was completely contrary to Lyn's delusions. You see, Lyn always has the same formula in this field. You can not have small efficient and low cost anything without a kooky side show of cultic apocolypse only Lyn can hallucinate. Think of it this way. The LC to this day froths at the mouth like a rabid raccoon at the mention of "Appropriate Technologies". Lyn's creative mentation demands "Appropriate Enemies". Lyn's mental condition also demands elaborate and complex temples of self worship to bring this to fruitation as a plan which would make Albert Speer pine with envy. This process was invented by Eric and he applied for a patent on it. It had commercial appeal and this is where the Godfather comes in demanding his share. It has always been like that and whenever you see someone purged by Lyn, there is always a money dispute disguised by Lyn to keep the members in line. In Eric's case, we were told that he had severe problems accepting Lyn into his life by not wanting to make Lyn the focus of the FEF work. There was also a dispute with FEF people over the amount of money in the FEF since they had a tax exempt status and took it seriously. But Lyn's history is usually to take with disregard to the aftermath and let other people worry about the debts, lawsuits and potential jail time. This became very heated as Eric was on the NC and was soon denounced as a traitor and for leaving the LC and on the way out perhaps asking too many questions about Jews and Lyn. For this I recall him being denounced as an ADL agent. His salt desalinization process was not known by most LCers. He was called an idiot who "blocked" and the model he built of the salt process was called a Rube Goldberg piece of crap by several leaders when asked about it. Soon after this episode was when Lyn issued his memo which demanded that ALL projects be prayer books for him to be in the White House. | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 |
Regarding Larouche's plans for running for President in 2008, something just hit me. Is it possible he has found an opening to worm his way into the "Unity08" ( http://www.unity08.com/ ) vehicle? [Current speculation has Mike Bloomberg and Chuck Hagel thinking of using it, which was the basis of that Larouche statement, simply aping unity08's statemnt and political discussion surrounding 08.] But what is worth noting about Unity08 is it is a sort of presidential vehicle that Larouche could amass his supporters to pick through. It is Internet based which skews these results and makes it apt for such infiltration. I note as an example that in online Republican polls, Ron Paul polls well, based basically on how determined Paul's supporters are in such matters. On second thought, that's a crazy thought. The old Republican consultants and Democratic consultants who set up that process will circumvent such a hypothetical scenario simply by throwing Larouche's name out. Besides, the rules of "Unity08" is that a Republican is paired with a Democrat. Who is the "Republican" that is campaigning with "Democratic" Larouche? ........... One more thing, about Larouche's balance sheet. I think it is largely beside the point. In the paranoid view of the world where you are destined to take over, you have to be making credit advances to be discarded when you gain control. For instance: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/12/17/hitler.tax/index.html Adolf Hitler was a tax dodger in Weimer Germany. | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Well, like virtually everyone else who leaves the Bizarro world, life gets better when you are deLarouchefied. Eric has a patent on the process you can read here. BTW, a few FEF people who left have several patents for inventions. ********************************************** U.S. Pat. No. 5,207,928, issued May 4, 1994, to E. J. Lerner describe generating, with compressed air, a stream of high-velocity saltwater droplets that vaporize without being heated. Salt precipitates from the vaporizing liquid and is recovered in a pan while the resulting water vapor is recovered by showering the water vapor with liquid water. Saltwater is mixed with compressed air. This mixture then is directed through an indistinct pneumatic nozzle that atomizes the mixture in a chamber where temperature and relative humidity are at ambient (room) levels. The volume and effect of compressed air mixed with the water and the high velocity of the mixture at the nozzle exit not only limits the volume of water that can be recovered, but diffuses the vapor inside the chamber by an entrained air mass that is approximately 30 times larger at a short distance from the nozzle's orifice. Diffusing water vapor into the chamber supersaturates the ambient air. At a relative humidity of 100% or more, air is unable to provide the energy necessary for evaporation, which impedes the process. Also, large amounts of air induce the diffused vapor to recombine with the separated salt particles. *********************************************** Eric also has worked on fusion power plants in the real world instead of the Bizarro world of Lyn. He also has books which are sold in real book stores and published by real publishing houses. No card table shrines here or vanity press. Over 600 peer reviewed and popular articles have been written and published by him. Here are two URLs to read more. http://photoman.bizland.com/lpp/eric_j_lerner.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Lerner What is also important to see here is that a healthy society thrives when competing ideas and opinions are allowed to flourish. In the insular world of the LC/LYM the lunacy acts as a filter against thought which does not conform to Lyn's Rheingau fueled moonstruck orgies. You can disagree with some of Eric's cosmology, but it was published as theory and critiqued by recognised experts and not printed as a card table shrine door prize for not laughing after 5 minutes. There really is a "larouche method" which I will post soon for the yutes using their own briefings to demonstrate. Yutes, you getting the picture yet? xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| jimmyo New member Username: jimmyo Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 134.148.5.119 |
Heya All. Newbie here. Ex-member of the LYM, and having had read a whole bunch of the LaRouche threads here, decided to sign up and participate. When I joined, it was because of what the LYM purported to be about. A bunch of things, a bunch of ideas that were (and are) neat. And while I left a fair while ago, no ill feelings (either way, believe it or not,) and only started to reconsider a bunch of things after coming across you guys, I'll share some of my relevant experiences. It took a while for me to be convinced of LHLs 'genius'. In anything I read (the Children of Satan pamphlets were coming out at the time I joined) he would obviously ramble. Waffle, that's the word. The punctuation I didn't mind, but I'm pretty bad myself. Eventually I must have become convinced. Speeches, I never was. Other LYMers would rave about how LHL was the worlds greatest speakers. Um, huh? I'm sure as hell not the only one to fall asleep during a 'historic' webcast. And it was great having the work with Beltran, too. His workshops would include plenty of really basic stuff, about inflections and the like. The same people would eargly listen to Beltran, and fail to notice that none of these basics of orating were followed by the 'great speaker' Lyn. The group readings were fun. 15-25 people (the number as dictated by LHL himself) sitting around the room read Lyns latest (or Plato, Schiller, or others sometimes, but Lyn primarily) out loud. Remember that most (all?) or the LYM are high-school or uni drop outs. Plenty of people among whom literacy not a strong point. I used to think that the reason so few people could read LHL out so it'd make sense was because few could understand the idea-content. A years break it took me, to realise that it didn't make sense because it couldn't. Another thing I remember is how much better an article written by someone other than a LaRouche was. I always found the other 21st Century, or Fidelio articles much more useful. You could read them and come away with a bit of understanding on something, whoever small. But reading Lyn, it'd be coming away with confusion, and then after long enough coming away with confusion, and thinking that it was knowledge. | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Eaglebeak, this is what made me most queasy when I was in the organization: if it is our distinctive power of creative menatation, either to develop or assimilate new technologies say, that makes us human, what about someone with Downs Syndrome? What about the aged and infirm? You hit the nail on the head. Think about what life would be like under a LaRouche government. Combine that with all the golden-soul talk and barely disguised antisemitism ... | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
Fortunately there is ample kookdom in Lyn's history, that he could never come to power here in the US, despite his fusion-temperature desires. For me I think he has served as a clearinghouse of sorts for some neat ideas and notions, some high-level types like Lerner and Bob Zubrin; Larry Hecht's "Moon Model," and the Isotope Economy notions, are intriguing. The idea of economies as Riemannian-type surfaces, wherein a new technology escalates the dimensionality of the surface--- ahem---- is kind of interesting, if this is what Lyn means. He has said some fine things, one must admit, if you review his oeuvre. He's definitely kind of a magnetic force. Lyn is OK except for the paranoid megalomania and anti-Israel slant and contempt for the members of his organization and his financial chicaneries. | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
...and helga...especially helga... | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
speaking of witch, i wonder if any of the ex-members of the org have had any dealings with her... | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 192.220.133.133 |
Remember that most (all?) or the LYM are high-school or uni drop outs. That is the second reference I've seen, the first was last night on a repeat of Mike Malloy's radio talk show, to "high school drop out"s as part of Larouche's freak-show "Youth Movement". That is just pathetic and offensive. | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
If you mean that this assertion is a distortion, you are right; who cares if they're college dropouts? One can argue that college is good but the fact that someone drops out shouldn't be used as a pummel. There are a lot of very smart young people in the LYM. That's what makes the phenomenon so astonishing, namely how smart people get drawn in to putative power and charisma, even when it comes with black teeth and proofs that Galileo was a reactionary lackey. I'd like to see this forum kept free of disfact and mere vitriolic calumny. These bespeak a "Knock 'em Down" agenda, as opposed to a rational critique of a worrisome social phenomenon. Lyn and the org have plenty of closet skeletons to deconstruct their mythos, without people here having to misstate things or collapse into mere name-calling. Dissembling misstatements and name-calling are among the reasons I got out. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
Sancho--Couldn't agree more about the tremendous dangers inherent in fetishizing creativity--because to do so, to equate it with being human, means exactly what you say: To deny the status of human to those with Down's syndrome, those with Alzheimer's, or microcephaly, or traumatic brain injury, or a hundred other things. It is precisely the slippery slope to euthanasia and ultimately genocide that LaRouche claimed to decry in any number of publications, but actually seems to endorse, perhaps unconsciously (by which I mean that he may not be conscious of the implications of what he says, because he is generally extraordinarily bad at imagining the outcomes and consequences of his actions or statements). | ||
| jimmyo New member Username: jimmyo Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 134.148.5.119 |
Howie - I apologize for the drop-out remark. I honestly did not mean it as an insult, just as a relevant fact to a description of an experience. I can't think of a LYM member (who I knew) that didn't leave school or college. I imagine there would be at least a few, who like me never went on to tertiary education in the first place. It really shouldn't be a surprise, either. If you join the LYM, you can't really go to college as well. That was something I was a little uncomfortable with while a member. I had someone ask what they could do to be a part of the movement, given that leaving college wasn't an option. Apart from 'give us money' or 'distribute our pamphlets' I didn't have an answer. Never found one, either. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.164.43.2 |
I think the significance of the "drop-out" factor is that the organization forces, induces, inveigles, seduces young people to drop out--either from high school or from college. That forecloses a lot of future possibilities for them. Among the older members of the organization, the sizable number who dropped out of college to join the NCLC lived to regret it--because now they're in their 50s and they never got a college degree, so the possibilities are narrower. Many people who were encouraged to drop out are very bitter. Of course, those who actually pursued degrees and, worse, graduate degrees were vilified for thinking they were "smarter than LaRouche," and for being impotent weanie-academics, or haughty, or epicene. LaRouche likes people who are young and wide-eyed and idealistic--easier to seduce. He hates the older, more educated ones--they're harder-headed, harder-hearted, and skeptical. So of course he wants people to drop out of school. And remember, he dropped out of Northeastern after one year--he doesn't want to be surrounded by people with academic degrees. In fact, it's vital to his self-image that academic degrees be spat on and held in contempt. | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.125.93.18 |
It's definitely not the people on this site who've used the term drop out in the perjorative, it's the fact, as eaglebeak and others mention, that the organization drives people to drop out. Back when I was in, there was not the pressure to drop out, although we spent a good deal of time on campuses trying to recruit new members. But I'm glad I managed to get a degree that at least permitted me at a later stage in life to return to school and get one of those dreaded post-graduate degrees. The biggest farce is LaRouche's mis-history about the Abba Lerner debate. Admittedly, Lerner did coming out as an apologist for Schact's economics, which he tried to differentiate from the Nazis, but Lyn blew this up into the total triumph of his views over the campuses while MopUp became the triumph over the left. Of course this was all fantasy in his mind. When we were in school we would always take one idea we picked up from the latest Campaigner, go in and denounce some professor and think that we have helped attain hegemony over the campuses. Of course, we were nothing more than another little sectlet among others arguing about ideas that were totally esoteric and of very little interest to most students who at that time were concerned about 1) ending the war; 2) promoting environmental causes; and 3) promoting civil rights causes. | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.146.158 |
Just started listening to a briefing on the LPAC website from Lyn from a couple of days ago. Listening to Harley introduce Lyn as not only a statesman and world's greatest economist, but a scientist and philosopher as well was truly refreshing. Of course the usual blather was presented about how LaRouche was the living embodiment of FDR and how the Bering Straits tunnel was going to revive the world economy. Three minutes was about all I could take of it. Someone described a LaRouche presentation as a version of Mad-Libs-substitute terms like gold-backed dollar, convertible ruble, international dev'l bank, landbridge to Asia, etc. and finish with a flourish that noone else can accomplish what Lyn can and therefore, the World needs LaRouche in the White House! | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
Eaglebeak states that "dropping out forecloses a lot of future possibilities for them." But what this view misses, you see, is this: the End of the System is at hand; the world requires a Cadre Force of leaders acting on the Stage of History, to organize the population to turn from its fatal path before it's too late. Beside this consideration, what matters your puny degree, or your retirement funds? Drop out and join the leadership corps; cough up those funds now, "while your money's still worth something" as we used to say. In current concrete doctrinal terms this means the LYM has to move the nation's deadened boomers to act now to purge out Cheney and Bush. I don't think this will happen, but it might be possible, if the organization's deadened and exhausted boomers can be beaten and whipped into producing enough income over the next months. The demons change, but the overall dynamic structure of the ideology persists: We must raise the funds to defeat the Bogey Man before the world ends. I recall a shocking briefing (for me, just prepping to join) from spring 2000, a Helga conference call: "We are weeks away from the end of the system!" I don't think I ever filched retirement monies from anyone, but I saw it happen. It looks like we may get another big financial shock/readjust in the credit markets, after all the recent overliberal loaning. And if Cheney is truly the great bloodyfanged demon, intent on hitting Iran/inducing Israel to do so, we may descend into another 30 yrs war. On the other hand that may already be here. And I see no way to stop the administration---even should one be inclined to do so. As for Lyn, he's all too happy to see Iranian nukes. | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 48 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Charltonrom, What you describe is basically the way it has worked for almost 4 decades with a very predictable script with a change of villains. There is absolutlely nothing you heard years ago which is differentfrom what I heard on th e 1970s, others heard in the 1980s,90s, 2000 and beyond. We worked around the clock to defeat Jimmy Carter adn then to impeach him. ALong the way we began to pick up how to make money off of things like being anti drug, pro nuke or whatever else we could find a hat to wear in the boiler rooms. Back then we were all in favor of nuking Iran as we were making more money off of what we called "Yahoos" at the time. Those were conservatives who hated Carter and the Trilateral commission ,CFR etc. Lyn picks up this stuff and can flip the org on a dime with some mishmash where anyone who challenges it is considered to be "blovking" or an agent or suffering from some fears. If you go back to the 1970s we made a fortune selling target posters of Khomenhi at intersections and had one article after another abpout the nazi international and the Muslim states in the MId East. You do not see that today because of the death of Lady Di and being anti Cheney is easier to run a cult instead of explaining the intracacies of the Muslim Brotherhood to an 18 year old. In the Lady Di death Jeff Steinberg and Al Douglass have fed a steady diet of conspiracies to Dodi's father for years in order to try to get some cash and some contacts in the Mid East. A figure of 10K is what I heard was sent to us in exchange for doing an EIR report and Book on Tiny Rowland. If you want to do a crazy job on someone, you find Larouche or we will find you since we can print any thing and be looked as a kooky cult and have a way to leaflet for almost no expenses. No one can get a way with the stuff we can do or put a few dozen kids on the streets shouting about Satan and the Queen and the someone in one sentence. What is the hardest thing for anyone who leaves the cult is to understand that no one cares about Lyn , no one knows about the LC and if they do know about Lyn and the LC/LYM it is always as a crazy cult of lunacy. When ever people leave the org they wonder if someone knows about Lyn and in the back of their head wonder if Lyn is what he thinks he is , a major force. The truth is that after a few years out of the LC ypou wonder how you could be so stupid to have fallen for this charade. Once in the insular world, you are at the mercy of parlor tricks. I looed at how brifings over time work on people and saw a neat trick Lyn does with association . Lyn goes to Russia last week. Clinton goes to Russia a few months ago. British press run articles about investigation of radioactive killing in England. Putin is good. Russians talk about Bering Straight tunnel. British articles raise questions about Putin and human rights, energy threats to Europe and KGB killing. We end with a brifing which ties this all together and says now that: | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 49 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Clinton AND Lyn's trip are related. Thus the British articles The criticism of Putin is an attack on the Bering Straight tunnell The Tunnel is the only thing to save the world economy. Lyn is the reason for the Tunnel. That is why the British attacks on Putin are in response to giving out a few hundred leafletts in different cities each day around the globe. Never mind that when the Czar of Russia sold Alaska to the US, the first plan announced was to look at the potential to build a tunnel / bridge combo. Never mind that the URL I posted http://www.ecdc.net.cn/partners/gif.htm is where we first saw the proposals by the Japanese based Mitsubishi Company in the 1970s. Lyn can claim anything he wants since the only audience he really needs to move is a member to raise more money for less. Things are so delusional that Harley wants the maglev station on Alaska to be named "Larouche Station" to honor Lyn! Lyn then gives the yutes a whopper like this in his latest hallucination pamphlet. "For example, about fifteen years ago, my wife took the lead in the design and proposing a network of rail-like development throughout the continent of Eurasia and beyond, which is coming back onto the agendas today. Since the 1980s, this has included a detailed proposal for a railway landbridge from Siberia, through a tunnel through the Bering straits, into Alaska, and down our hemisphere toward the southern region of Patagonia." WTF!! 15 years ago Helga was busy shopping with other people's money and picking out a German mansion to set up house in. About the only person I can imagine having any thing of constructive mention is Jonathan Tennenbaum. After JT left last year he was denounced by Lyn as an idiot who had gone to college and had no real knowledge compared to the LYM leftovers in Europe. JT then shows up at a Russian conf about the Bering straights a few months later and the briefing now calls JT a larouche collaborator in glowing terms. Now Helga is the designer and Harley is busy selecting tile patterns for Larouche Station in Alaska! I hope for Tennenbaum's sake that he finally left this madhouse because Lyn can sometimes have a Svengali effect on people. Guys and girls, you have no idea of how much of your work, money and above all time has been wasted by Lyn's delusions of power. He is the perfect mark for scam artists who have taken the LC for tons of money. The phony security consultants know how Lyn thinks and play to his delusions. Lyn knows how to play your dreams to feed his delusions. You will be shocked at how much money is involved. Hey, instead of washing pots and pans for the LYM, maybe deadenders could have bought a dishwasher for the LYM clubhouse. More, millions more to some later. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
Through all his protean transformations, then, from Kanto-Marxian Freudite Rockefeller Opponent, to Atlantis enthusiast/Fusion Proponent, to Walter Lippman analyst/SDI godfather & anti-Soviet Atlanticist, to American System/JQ Adams/FDR wannabe; through all these, we can perceive roughly the same basic structural/ideological dynamic: the world is essentially about to end, unless Lyn is brought in to be President, or at least to instruct the policy elites in what must be done. A new global system must be forged. "Lyn knows what to do." But the Enemy of the season--- the Rockefeller system; the illuminati/British monarchy; the Jews; the Soviets; the Oligarchy; the CFR; the Satanists; the UN World Federalist Conspiracy; the Straussian Synarchists--- the Enemy, knows Lyn, hates and fears him. This is the fundamental doctrine. Only Lyn can save us, but the Enemy is committed to preventing that from occurring. Thus the blackout and silencing of Lyn's critical role in history, by the university/publishing/media system. The Members of old, and now the LYM, are the key intellectual focal points in redirecting history. If the focal point loses focus, constraining forces come into play: the entire ideological system is held together in fascinating manner; not only by the Crisis/Savior model, but via other mechanisms to be outlined here in due course. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
With Ken Kronberg dead and PMR and WorldComp liquidated, it will be a lot harder for LaRouche to get webcast pamphlets and Bering Straits leaflets and impeach Cheney ravers and all that stuff out into the field. LaRouche managed to destroy the whole printing operation Kronberg et al. built up. Now it will be interesting to see how ole Lindy gets his stuff printed. How long can they pay an outside printer to do what they refused to pay Kronberg to do? How long will an outside printer print, if he doesn't get paid? Note that in recent years, the organization lost New Federalist (Kronberg finally stopped mailing it, and then stopped printing it, because he couldn't get paid); 21st Century mag (now in some online avatar of no clout); Fidelio (Kronberg stopped putting it out, and since he was the only one who worked on it, that was that); etc. Apparently the EIR runs have been cut drastically since Kronberg's death, too. So what are the yutes going to wave around while they sing Jesu, Meine Freude on street corners? How on earth will they get contacts if they don't have any literature to put on the card tables? Speaking of Helga shopping with other people's money, xlcr4life, there's a great story about her in India a number of years ago, going to a fortune teller and asking to have her palm read and asking, "Will I be rich?" True story. | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 |
Actually what I was trying to say was that it is understandable and slightly less morally egregious that Larouche would aim his recruitment at the college-aged than at any younger, who for one thing would presumably have to answer to parents and for another are legally less restricted on their life choices. | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
I would propose that what Lyn needs is, a. New blood, without a lot of health problems such as are likely to visit the Boomer members b. Reasonably independent youth blood, full of vitality, bright but not too bright. Collegiates and dropouts fill the bill nicely. Younger than that = too many parental issues. Collegiate age is good, vital, and educable in doctrine, plus getting some perks like no real job, bohemian type existence, some travel, getting to maybe schmooze around Capitol Hill; all this makes for generally pliable acolytes. It's true the stipends are miserable but maybe it beats an 8 to 5; and one can always point to the Great Financial Collapse of '05, er I mean '06, er I mean... | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
'07 is the new target year for the Big One: the financial apocalypse and systemic breakdown that will lead to the genocidal outcome so avidly desired by the planet oligarchic class. Having the yutes surely validates Lyn's megalomania too. He's ensnared a brood of yutes, of varying background. Defining the features of this particular cultic apparatus, is my agenda. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.164.43.2 |
My particular agenda is to get the Ken Kronberg story out; I think this will lead to exposure that could be a huge problem for LaRouche. On the youth, there are a couple of considerations that indicate how LaRouche has perfected his technique. When I and my age cohort joined, we were either college grads or in college or perhaps in grad school. We held jobs. In other words, we were independent, or could form an independent thought, and had to test those thoughts and our performance at work and/or in school. We supported ourselves. We were able to buy clothes and food and books, and pay rent. We were THE SAME AGE then, when we were doing all these "grown-up" things, that the yutes are today. Now, this eroded over time, particularly in regions, where people's rent and medical bills, etc., began to be paid for them, so that they were infantilized and rendered dependent. When I was a member, however, we called this becoming lumpenized--that is, some part of us still recognized that it was a Bad Thing to live 6 to an apartment, eat all our meals together, live off what we made at field deployments, etc., share our cars (and have them destroyed in the field). Today, what we used to criticize as lumpenization is held up as the ultimate politico-monastic existence. That is the crux of the operation: Keeping the LYMers in communalist dorms, feeding them from communalist pots, paying all their bills for them, imprisons them psychologically and financially. They are absorbed into The Family. The vestiges of independence that we older people retained is one reason LaRouche hates the Baby Boomers and their immediate successors so much. For those older members, no matter what LaRouche does, he can't impress them the way he can impress the LYM. Also note that a couple of years LaRouche stopped the process of National Conferences in the U.S.--conferences attended by the old members as well as the young. Now in their place they hold LYM retreats, off in the mountains someplace in isolation. There are NO conferences for older members--where someone might get up and say what he or she thought. And now the old members are taught by the LYM--very rarely is the LYM taught by old members. There are just a handful of old members "cleared" to teach--Jeff Steinberg, Harley Schlanger, Phil Rubenstein, Bruce Director, Michelle Steinberg, come to mind. | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
Yes, the boomers in the organization are now in effect part of the Enemy class. There are 3 generational classes in Lyn's system, namely the "youth", including up to around age 30; the Tweeners, of dubious virtue; and the dreaded Boomers, who exemplify the most vile character features of any human grouping ever. It got to the point where exposure between the 3 classes was moving in the direction of being rationed. Never mind that the youth stipends such as they are, are paid by phone-team tortured slogging. Lyn alternates his description of boomers, from pitiable wretches to be saved, to fully wretched cowards and vile Agents even; older members who've dedicated their lives to Lyn, are said to be laboring to undermine him. "You are all treating Lyn like ••••!" I remember being told, as we worked and reworked the spreadsheets and card boxes. | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
Actually as I recall Lyn has stretched out his approved class. It's now the 18-35 yr olds who embody the revolutionary vanguard. This is the approved-replacement demographic, to swap into position as the boomers drop off or croak out. | ||
| xlcr4life Junior Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Charltonrom, this whole thing is so screwy that when you read about who is directing Lyn's delusions like a remote controlled monkey you and others will understand how you can raise millions each year and live a soup kitchen life in the LYM. The Bering Straights Tunnel is another thing which has been around for a century, in staging plans for decades and now just another tactic to impress yutes with no clue how this works. Here you can find Rev Moon's claim to the Bering Tunnel and maybve start a bidding war between Moonies and LYM over rights to stalk bug people in DC offices. http://www.reverendsunmyungmoon.org/works_bering_strait.html Lyn has lost people to the Moonies including his VP running mate Bevel according to one report I read a few years ago. Maybe we can see a fight between Moon and Larouche in the DC Mall as a webcast. Here is a great example of Lyn's delusionary thinking porocess. I can just call up my local VoTech office and find out how to be a welder. Here is Lyn's way of doing it which explains why you never get anything accomplished in the LC becuase it is by design. SCHLANGER: To follow that up, we have an e-mail question from Scott from the LYM, who asks about the lack of training for young people in such techniques, or such skills as welding or machine-tool technology, and he's asking how would you go about re-establishing these training programs that are needed for the skilled labor these kinds of projects? LAROUCHE: Don't try to start from a job skill level. The way to do the job-- you want competence? Don't send a guy out to some place to learn how to weld. He's going to have to that, perhaps. But the way you do it, you do it the other way; you start from the top. You take a project, of building something and making it work. When you start to do something, and taking ideas, and trying to put them together, as some people did with the tetrahedral work in the project on the Kepler work, when you do that, and start to build a project, you require yourself to bring in some guy who can show you how to do it on this or that technique, and you become familiar with it. And you begin to work with them, or people like them. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
So, now, because you are part of a project in which these particular skills are integral, you now have to build a taskforce in which people who have some of these skills will share it with other people, and people who want to come in and learn it, will come in the context of that taskforce, and they will also pick up these skills. And that's the way you do it. You take a project, a mission-oriented project. Look, we did that in World War II. It was done by the Hopkins operation, and by Franklin Roosevelt in the 1930s. And they were faced with a mission. The Hopkins group, which Roosevelt brought in, included some famous generals, guys who were leaders in World War II. It also involved Eisenhower, and MacArthur in the 1930s, in their own role in this thing, in the industrial development project. So, what Roo sevelt did, knowing the day that he was inaugurated as President, Hitler had become a dictator--Roosevelt knew we were headed toward World War II, then. So, Roosevelt had two problems. The United States would have to prepare for the fact that war was being threatened down the line, probably within his time in office, and at the same time, the U.S. economy had fallen by over 30% between the time that Hoover was inaugurated, and the time that Roosevelt was inaugurated, in that period. You had to rebuild the shattered U.S. economy, rebuild shattered people, who had lost skills, had lost jobs, had lost perspective. And you had to at the same time, build up the biggest military force, as an economic force, the world had ever seen, to deal with the threat of war which was coming down the pike. We took people from the streets; we took people into the CCCs, where we built skills. We organized them around projects in which they picked up these sk ills, and we showed that we could produce like no one had ever dreamed you could produce before. So, don't try to take it from the bottom up of learning a skill, and learning a skill, and learning a skill. Take it from the top down; take the mission. Build a bridge; build a high-speed rail system; build things that are needed. You don't have the skills? Well, develop them as part of the project, and that's how you do it. SCHLANGER: I think we need people to build that Bering Strait tunnel, and I like the proposal that came out of the meeting in Moscow, that we name the Alaska point on it the LaRouche Station. So, Lyn, we have another question from the LYM in Germany, on Iran, going back to the strategic crisis. Saundra wants to know if there's any chance Russia would respond militarily to protect Iran, given the escalation by Cheney to provoke a war there. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Xlcr identified one of the reasons why Lyn has never accomplished anything of note: he lacks the humility, patience, and diligence to master the technique of any one discipline through which one develops the most fecund ideas. Flying in from the top and trying to parachute down into the world of accomplished people with the Good News of his perspective on what they are doing is insanely presumptuous. (A propos of this Jonathan Swift once satirized the Royal Society by describing a group of smart things who were trying to build a house from the top down.) Lyn could once bluff his way into a hearing by recruiting people who had real skills and sound knowledge and who could thereby gain some credence in relevant circles for him; now that he is recruiting the unskilled and uneducated, his group - as it peters away - will continue to become ever more a laughingstock. Stay in school, kids. Be someone. Bluffing your way through life as Lyn has is very painful - and entirely unnecessary. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 52 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
My God there is more secret knowledge of value to be learned at a local APEX Tech welding class than found at Larouche University. I reread Lyn's methodology and ode to Platonic welding a few times to make sure that I was not imagining how goofy this crap sounds. It hit me that this was like asking Grandpa Simpson a question about welding on The Simpsons TV show. But Grandpa Simpson makes more sense most of the time, though he did admit to being tricked to vote for Lyn in one episode. There is a great story from Newsday which appeared on Sep 23, 2003 which has the writer meeting Lyn in person. Here is a nice quote: *********************************************** "In the flesh, LaRouche is more grandfatherly than grandiose. He is a peaceful-looking senior citizen, with soft blue eyes, brownish teeth and an easy, almost tender laugh. Kicking back in a plush brown chair, a glass of water in his right hand and a dog by his side, Lyndon LaRouche could easily be Fred Bartles or Ed Jaymes, sitting on a porch pitching wine coolers. Although his followers will describe a conversation with LaRouche as (pick one) "riveting," "enlightening," "life-affirming," or "world-defining," there is seemingly as much babble as substance. LaRouche talks endlessly, in diatribes that can last up to 20 minutes without going anywhere. It is like visiting a lonely grandparent in a nursing home after he just finished reading the newspaper. And yet, there is something disconcerting about LaRouche, and it's not simply his bizarre track record of intimidating those who disagree with his stances; of being labeled everything from a racist to an anti-Semite to a homophobe; of accusing Walter Mondale of being a KGB agent and Queen Elizabeth of smuggling drugs. No, the man who would be president projects a sense of self-importance that is unnatural, almost inhuman. It is one thing to win the presidency, then strut around with a barrel chest. But LaRouche seems to actually believe he is the president. "We already feel as if he's running things," says Angela Vullo, his press secretary. "People don't understand," she says. "But he's doing a lot of the wheeling and dealing behind the scenes in this country, and around the world." *********************************************** Yutes, here is another cheap parlor trick Lyn uses on you. To tie Lyn to any current event the briefing writer or NC will use the word "echos" . When it is time to impress the yutes the briefing will say something like "__________ was interviewed in the ___________ and said ______________ which echos Lyndon H. Larouche's recent policy paper on _____________ which stated that unless policy makers adopt the ____________ Larouche Plan, the world economy is heading towards an unreversable (take your pick) full scale economic blow out or thermonuclear war." You get both if Lyn needs to send a bunch of cash to some people you guys do not know about. (Message edited by xlcr4life on May 31, 2007) | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Besides spending money on trying to buy elections, getting cleaned out by Carpet, "The Major" land purchases, Lyn has a fascination with farm animals for some reason as a hobby. Lyn has spent decades and a fortune feeding a favorite pet called "Mr. Ed" who people may have thought was a code name for Helga'a horse. Jeff and Paul thought "Mr. Ed" was a mare from Langley but was really a nightmare of their imagination which Lyn adopted enthusiastically. While this circus was dancing in Lyn's head for years and years another project was undertaken by Lyn to breed cattle of all things on the Ibykus ranch I believe. Following his own dictum , Lyn ordered two special breeds of cattle which cost a fortune and from the top down, ordered that they be bred for some new master breed of cow. The members were so starved that if they found about this in other locals I think they would have BBQed the cows to avoid starvation. Thank God Lyn went to prison as Uwe F. came in from Germany and sold off most of this in a "Going to Prison" fire sale. I am sure that a few people who lurk here or are logged in have more Club Ibykus stories to tell. Do the math yutes. By the time you figure out how you are being taken for a ride, you could have completed college, a few years of special school and be hired and paid to work on a project like the Bering Straights Tunnel instead of joining a poor man's Rev. Moon side show. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| fundyemo New member Username: fundyemo Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 12.77.8.33 |
I’ve posted before under another name, but I will use this name this one time only. Perhaps a few of you will know who I am, and you will kindly keep it to yourselves. When I quit oh so many years ago one of the things that impressed me, as I’m sure it’s impressed many others, is what a non-entity LaRouche is in the real world. Hardly anyone has heard of him, and the few who have heard of him know him as a fringe nut case. Power? Influence? Zilch. But now I understand LaRouche’s irrelevance in a deeper sense. Do you know what Intellipedia is? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellipedia. It’s the Intelligence Community’s version of Wikipedia, much of it at the Top Secret level or above. Type “LaRouche” in Intellipedia’s search engine. Can you guess how many hits there are? Zero. Nobody cares. Not Cheney. Not the CIA. Nobody. Sorry, boys and girls. LYMers, you can leave now before you waste any more years of your lives. Fellow boomers, you can leave now and try and salvage some joy in what years remain to you. | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.146.158 |
Checking out the Bering Strait Bridge or tunnel on Google and you can find Discovery Channel programs on that as well as a bridge or tunnel to link Europe and Africa through Gibralta. Interesting ideas but of course Lyn wants to get all the glory as being the only one in the world who can put the political will together to push it. And of course this idea was being promoted back in the last century by an engineer who did a graduate thesis on it, or so I've found. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1510/is_1987_Fall/ai_5151510 | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.164.43.2 |
The discussion of the demonization of the Baby Boomers and the creation of various classes inside the organization in Charltonrom's post raises a very interesting aspect of the way LaRouche runs things. That is the phenomenon of the Enemy Within. There is always an Enemy Within, who is invariably tied to whoever the Enemy Without happens to be (BTW, I am indebted for this insight to a conversation I had with Ken Kronberg several years ago). Thus, if the Enemy Within is Right-Wing Catholic spy and agent Fernando Quijano, the Enemy Without will be international Synarchism/clerical fascism. They are always tied together, so that LaRouche can mobilize all the fear and hatred the members feel against the Enemy Without to use it against the Enemy Within--and vice versa. That way, as people inside the org are demonized, the LaRouche armies can feel virtuous and self-righteous in driving out their former close friends as Agents of an Enemy Power. And that is no doubt what is going on now, with Baby Boomers at each other's throats, and Baby Boomers attacking Baby Boomers as the most immoral, slothful, impotent, vile x-y-z. From what I hear, the Baby Boomers in the office in Leesburg are being pushed out, while the LYMers are running more and more. The main thing LaRouche needs the oldsters for is the phone fundraising, because the LYMers can't possibly raise any money wandering around on the streets mumbling about Gauss's determination of the orbit of Ceres. Without the old folks raising the $$ for the yutes' lumpen lifestyle, LaRouche's current crazy model for the organization couldn't work. Meanwhile, on the Enemy Within/Without theme, look back at the Gus business--he was supposedly a Bulgarian (or Greek) Communist agent, remember? Or Carol and Chris--Lyn hated them, wanted to destroy them, and came up with the outrageous 1974 brainwashing business, which almost did destroy them. Somehow, LaRouche managed to sell the idea that C&C were agents of some Dark Force that wanted to kill him. All they really wanted to do was get away from him, I think--speaking as one who knew them pretty well in those days. What was done to them was monstrous. What was done to Quijano, ditto. Then there was the assault on Uwe Friesecke and the European leadership, where the lead issue was plainly that Friesecke wouldn't fund the German LYM, but the deeper issue was LaRouche's need to destroy everyone around him, one by one. (Also, since Friesecke was Helga's former lover, that made a doubly sweet revenge for LaRouche.) And Ed Spannaus? A few months before he cashiered Ed from the NEC, LaRouche accused him of being an Enemy of Helga's. Lastly, Ken Kronberg--LaRouche analogized Ken to some petty, venal businessman who wanted to make money and therefore pooh-poohed LaRouche's insane obsession with the 1929 Depression. Of course, if Kronberg had wanted to make money, he never would have done any of the things he did. LaRouche's reported freakout when Kronberg killed himself--after a year or two of LaRouche's attacks--may be the result of his figuring out that even the dumbest (older) members will know those attacks on Kronberg and PMR were lies, perhaps mostly based on LaRouche's desire to put some distance between himself and PMR before it crashed--and of course, as all ex-members know, LaRouche cannot take the blame or the responsibility for ANYthing. So if PMR was gonna crash because the LaRouche org never paid for any of its printing, then you just KNOW that LaRouche would have to start attacking PMR to cover his own role in this. Next installment: LaRouche takes aim at marriage and marriages. | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 |
Here's some interesting reading. The comments for Dennis King's book at amazon.com, and the single sentence that jumps out at me: I read this book just to see what the other half says. Other... half? HALF? The joke is that Larouche is barely a household name, murmured in an occasional off-hand joke once in a great moon, and King isn't -- as he has devoted himself to researching an item nobody thinks about, even as Larouchies have found their way into some gargantuan struggle. How we can dissect the two categories into "Halves" is beyond me. But I guess that's the world of Larouchism. The whole thing mindset perplexes me. It seems that what Larouche has ended up doing is basically operating a Fantasy Shadow Government.} | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
I don't think it's a "mindset". It's basically a CULT. Maybe one with theoretical elements that are more dense than normal cults: we DID read Plato's dialogues in group sessions; we DID work through various math/geometry pedagogicals; there WAS a sort of high tech-futurism aspect to the organization; and so forth. Lyn's texts and writings had a certain sort of rhetorical density which can be captivating to the philosophically/psychologically innocent. But it's cult-ic at the very least, because it centers on a charismatic leader who engages in unscrupulous political and financial practices. Cults have certain constant structural features, such as: 1. Initiates/devotees, drawn from the sector of the population that comprises those in transitional states; those with insecure sexual identities; those in conditions of "anomie" or philosophical/existential uncertainty. Without initiates/devotees, there is no "organization" 2. An ideology that sustains the group, justifies its existence, rationalizes its activities. Typical are millenarian/revolutionary or end-of-the-world doctrines. Messianic delusions and exclusivity ("We are the worlod's leadership force" I used to say), as well as demonizing/dehumanizing opponents, or proffering up certain classes or types as the Enemy, are also typical. 3. Finally, a central, charismatic figure, often of messianic character or pretensions. Sound familiar? | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
hey speak of the devil - meaning king in this instance, though in this forum he's at least st. michael - i wonder if anyone on this board participated in the shows that king did with lenny lopate back in the 80's on wbai...they were hilarious...king would talk about larouche, and members of the org would phone in to call names and generally heckle king and lopate, who seemed rather amused by it all...i would absolutely love to get my hands on copies of those shows...and for those of you who dont remember, back in that day, lopate's show ran from midnite to 5 am, and the fun never stopped... while i'm at it, please let me tip my beret to sancho, xlcr, charltonron and eaglebeak - you guys are superb, devastatingly witty writers...i'm sure you owe it all to larouche...um...and i have to tell you that you have pretty much eroded my semi-fascination with larouche...i come here now just to see what you guys have written... one more thing: we need more anecdotes about helga...she has always struck me as a particularly vapid creature, a ventriloquist's dummy come to life as an avon lady from hell... | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
I think we make a pretty grave mistake if we underestimate Lyn and Helga and just hurl invectives, and the like. They are charismatic figures in their own way. I was never in the inner circles so I never got to experience her beer farts but I will say that she came through with some decently impressive scholarship in the middle & later periods: her speeches on Abelard, Cusa, Schiller and other such topics, for example. This cultic apparatus is kind of unique, perhaps, in that there is a solid veneer of science and philosophy overlaying the core of megalomanic paranoia and scamming. If we lose sight of this, lose sight of the appeal-aspect, I think we will fail to comprehend what's going on with the organization. | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
well charltonrom, i have been reading helga's work for over 20 years now, first as a subscriber to new solidarity/new federalist, and then as a subscriber to EIR, and i have never found her to say anything at all original...she simply parrots her husband or spouts platitudes...and without breaking a sweat, i can think of at least half a dozen authors i've read in larouche publications whose work has greatly enriched my understanding of history, economics, cultural studies, etc...indeed, one of the things that has kept me believing that larouche was a genuine intellectual force, and not a charlatan, was and is the talent of the members of his organization... even lyn manages to occasionally sneak in a startling insight or two, though after reading the postings here, it is unclear to me whether those belong to him, or have been appropriated from others... i can't comment on her scholarship, so i'll give that point to you... | ||
| shadok New member Username: shadok Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 |
To charltonrom of course they are charismatic, and their ideas are appealing (at least to some), that s essential for a cult: you don't catch a fish with a bare hook, you need something... (hey most of us here were recruiters!) Yes there is something unique in the LYM/LYN cult, but the same can be said for hare krishna, moon, scientology etc etc... They are all "unique"... It s not about the content, it s about the box, it s about the method. Of course, sometimes lyn would say something that makes sense, but it is irrelevant. The method is cultist, therefore it s a cult. | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.125.93.18 |
Cult v. Cadre organization After reading Charltonrom's post along with Eaglebeak's I recall that in my time, we were able to make a distinction between cult and revolutionary group because in Leninist terms we always would figure the revolutionary cadre group would always have to be a minority group that "moves the masses." This was why, at least early on, we wouldn't be bothered if we didn't have mass appeal, since the point was to move bigger orgs. like trade unions, the anti-war movement, etc. Leninists would feel very comfortable with the idea that the individual subordinates himself to the will of the organization for the sake of "revolution." Of course, anyone familiar with the early history of the Bolshevik Party would know there was more active debate inside the leadership on key issues than ever existed inside the NCLC (at least pre-Stalin). And certainly, as a leftist, we would assume there would be enemies within, since the FBI and various police agencies did run their cointelpro operations to infiltrate the left in the 60s and 70s. Then, LaRouche drops the Marxism, moves far to the Right and begins supporting Reagan, attacking all elements of the left-environmentalists especially-and pretends that he is actually going to lead some mass movement to take over or rebuild the Democratic Party in his image. Of course the Democratic Party is not a Leninist organization, nor could the NCDC or whatever it was called be considered one, and we were basically trying to continue a "cadre" organization while pretending to be an organization to run the country through putting LaRouche in the White House or in charge of something. Of course, the organization always reflected a very non-Marxist attitude towards its enemies, which was no longer capitalism or imperialism, but good capitalists against bad capitalists, finance against industrial capitalist, etc. So Lyn believed he was going to run some faction of capitalists to back his plans "to save capitalism from itself." (A lot of this traces back to views expressed by Tim Wolfurth and others). This seems to be a classic fascist direction, if you look at the history of Mussolini. But all along I think members somehow believed that they were still operating as that Leninist cadre organization which could sustain any sacrifice, and the members have the same belief as someone who believes that world socialist revolution is around the corner. I don't think the issue of sacrifice and living in miserable conditions is the issue, since plenty of people have sacrificed and lived in far worse conditions even when they might be a minority against a majority, look at the Valley Forge soldiers, or many other examples of sacrifice for a cause, maybe even a losing cause. The question is what is the cause you are being asked to sacrifice for. And if you look at the actual world view that LaRouche espouses, even though he talks about creativity, etc. it is clearly a totally authoritarian world view that's reflected in the treatment of the members themselves. | ||
| shadok New member Username: shadok Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 |
Larouche said: it is a cult! In his 1979 autobiography (p76), he wrote: "Although I have profoundly respected Goethe's extraordinary skill in poetic composition, one poem of Goethe's which touched me with more than a special sense of admiring amusement was his Prometheus. Making men in my own image was the conscious articulation of my central purpose from approximately 1946. First, one must become adequately qualified to accomplish that purpose. That task, especially as I saw the methodological hopelessness of existing institutions known to me, prescribed assimilating and developing a body of knowledge adequate to the undertaking to come. In the immediate postwar period, I set myself the goal of acquiring the necessary degree of adequacy between my thirty-third and thirty-fifth birthdays. The result of that approach was the National Caucus of Labor Committees." In fact, for larouche, being "Promethean" means being "like God" who indeed created "men in his own image"... It is not an accident that the members of the NCLC/ICLC would soon enough be called "larouchies". This sense of "god-likeness" was brilliantly explained by psychologist Alfred Adler when he tried to understand what is now known as the "complex of superiority". He wrote that piece two years before Hitler took power..: "Sometimes we find children who express themselves quite openly in this way, and remark, 'I should like to be God'. Many philosophers have had the same idea. There are also some teachers who want to train and educate children to be like God. In old religious disciplines the same objective is visible: disciples should educate themselves in such a way that they become god-like. This concept of god-likeness appears in a more modest form in the idea of 'superman', and it is revealing - I shall not say more - that Nietzsche, when he became insane, signed himself in a letter to Strindberg, 'The Crucified'. Insane people often express their goal of god-like superiority quite openly: they will assert, 'I am Napoleon', or 'I am the Emperor of China'. They wish to be the centre of worldwide attention, to be constantly in the public eye, to be in radio contact with the whole world and overhear every conversation. They wish to predict the future, and to possess supernatural powers. In a more moderate and reasonable way, perhaps, the same goal of god-likeness is expressed in the desire to know everything, to possess universal wisdom, or in the wish to perpetuate our life. Whether it is our earthly life we desire to perpetuate, or whether we imagine ourselves as coming to earth again and again in many incarnations, or whether we foresee immortality in another world, these expectations are all based upon the desire to be like God. " Rings a bell? | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
My opinion is that the content in Lyn's cultic apparatus is both different and important. I don't think the Moonies or Krsna's try to gain pull in the Democratic Party. The veneer of science and philosophy, of futuristic economics, of a new monetary system to empower a world of sovereign nation-states; the lure of being World Historical: all these things lend a certain contemporary revolutionary panache to the organization. Young people join up to fight for the future; not knowing Lyn's true wild, spotty history, they see him as a plausible leader in that. Who else is proposing a new monetary system and any sort of programmatic approach? I will admit that for quite a long time, Lyn was for me "the central figure in contemporary history," as I used to put it. It all came together; I felt sure Lyn was the great humanist of the age, matured over time certainly, but persecuted by the regnant oligarchy for his revolutionary views and actions, such as his counseling Lopez Portillo to repudiate Mexico's debt. (The story I was told on this by the way was that this nearly succeeded, but for the caving of Argentina's president from the repudiation-bloc.) There are some common features with other cults, namely the preying on sexual insecurities ("You're psychosexually impotent!"), the demonizations, the groupthink. What sets Lyn apart for me is the Brobdingnagian, titanically vast bloating of his ego and his fascinating chameleonic quality over the decades, plus, again, this frisson of philosophy, science, and economics. That you won't find amongst the Krsna's or Moonies. The key is not scattershot, piecemeal potshots and remembrances, though these are essential and instructive. The key is comprehending how LYN'S cult works/has worked; what is ITS method (basically the LaRouche/Schacht Method, see below). Basically we hope some of this dialogue may get perceived by some thinking of joining or some thinking of getting out, that it may give them some perspective to resist the peer pressure and fearmongered intimidation. Next: the Lure of the Cult. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
I have here a quote from LHL given in an address in the barn at Ibykus farm on Monday Dec 21, 1987 before everyone in Leesburg. Read this a few times and you will see that he combines so much of his delusions with a future plan for the cult. LAROUCHE Dec. 20, 1987: "Creativity is one of my obsessions. If you don't have creative insight, you can't see how we can win; if you can see how we can win, then we will win. Only we can save the world; only we can do the job, because nobody else even knows what the job is. Would you like to be the savior of humanity? ... Yes, I was chosen. You were chosen. Not with fanfare, not with the blaring trumpets of archangel Gabriel. It doesn't happen that way. It happens as you walk down the street thinking about the problems of the world and realize only you can do the job ... You are chosen. Like John Scialdone's lawyer said to the jury: 'You poor schmucks'! ... Look around you. Who will support us? Who will rally to us? The ones who will rally to us are the emotionally crippled, the grey-faced, the neurologically impaired who, in rallying to us will do the only worthy thing to give meaning to their lives. Thus they will be able to say, 'I wasn't important but I contributed to victory *********************************************** What happens in the LC/LYM is that by keeping your life filled with anxiety and fear around the clock, you never really read what you are selling or hear what you are hearing. To this day I can reread some of the lunacy we published about Jews and kick myself for suppressing that FIRST gut feeling that something was not right. We are going to be coming up to the 20th anniversary of that speech Lyn gave where he tells you what the plan is. For the past two years the LC Boomers and I have been reading the exact same briefings where Lyn outlines how he will get rid of the old and expensive and replace it with younger and cheaper yutes. Lyn uses the word "Win" in a context where only he will define it instead of any real paramters of success can be measured. What I start to think of is how the LC and Lyn spent so much time portraying the difference between Plato and Aristotle as a simple parlor trick he does by saying that the Aristotelian wants to see a chair while the Platonist is superior because he used causation to imagine the chair before it existed. I swear we had endless classs about this which because of portraying Aristotle as evil and Plato as good, it established the next level of where empirical knowledge is bad. This LC education has only one outcome which is to make you no longer ask for physical proof of something but by merely imagining it you can define it's existance in any way you wish. This allows Lyn to tell naive yutes that the USA has been in an economic collapse for 40 years while ignoring the simple empirical fact that the total USA population has 100 million more people since he first started yapping about this. Lyn can repeat an endless cacophony of real estate collapse when the only people who lost money in Northen Virgina real estate from 1980 to 2000 was Lyn himself! Another parlor trick Lyn and the cult uses is the word "Phase shift". You read the briefings and you find that used a lot to convince you that working around the clock for Lyn and giving all of your money has caused something to happen which you directly caused. The mumbo jumbo you will get is that this person "echoed" Larouche and a "Phase shift" has occured which has changed "The Dynamic" of the "political situation". | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Now you can do this mumbo jumbo in reverse too. We once had an anniversary party for New Solidarity in NYC and as a joke we asked what was the most common first sentence used in any article. The winner was: "Recent events in the past 24 to 48 hours indicate that ___________ is now out of control...." In the real world people do make sacrifices for things like elections. I have worked phone banks and have campaigned for people and worked on various campioagns which have a beginning and an end. In this asylum the end never comes and you can be reduced to giving up decades of your life to fund what Howie correctly called a "Fantasy Shadow Government" or FSG. What Howie does not yet know is that this FSG is inside Lyn's head and has been galloping at full steam by being fed a daily diet of delusions by very crafty con artists who know Lyn better than anyone I have ever met. We still have some more of this to find out about. But, when delusions go into Lyn's head money comes out of the LC. So keep on working those phone banks and spread sheets of contacts because there are people to fund that you do not know about yet. Next, I start getting into the prediction racket myself. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 56 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Two years ago when some Lym yutes were sending me briefign exerpts they asked about why the big deal in denouncing LC boomers. I would get emails where I thought it was being punked by yutes. From several sources I was told that older Boomer LCers were involved in cooking group meals for LYM and in a few instances were breaking down in the office and sobbing "Why am I here. What has happened to my life?". This made sense since so many LYM who left have siad that part of the daily routine is to see and hear the local NC berate the older members at every opportunity. Now in the briefings you can't help but notice how the quoats for locals are still in effect and wonder how much can the LYM be sent to sing on street corners before they have to pull in some bucks. I guessed that it would be a gradual turn of events with phone work for LPAC being done with LC boomers showing how it is done. In the early 1970s when Lyn revved up the LC with Mop Op and the Chris White scam and assasination attempt fantasies, he said the LC, "This aint no debating society anymore". S the bills pile up you wonder how long can you afford to send card table shrines to college campuses intead of actual deployments for money. The asnwer is when you have enough people to replace the boomers and need to start bringing in the cash. This was somehwat complicated by the fact that there was no lit to sell or subs to sell as most of the work was just giving it away. Howver, for the past few months I have noticed that the income of squads has been reported while the college deployments have been downplayed. The writers of the briefings have even written things like "Deploying is fun" and "we took over the town by raising 90 bucks and getting 20 contacts" You might as well put up a sign at the LYM clubhouse saying "Work will make you free" as the latest escalation in the cult is called a "reading day". In one funny email I was sent a LYM member wondered how after busting your butt 6 days a week for 18 hours the briefing would quote some LYM member in esctasy over getting up at 6 AM for an authorised reading day to have even your free time controlled by the cult. The card table shrine is Lyn's future for you guys and girls. Only a select amount of people will get the coveted "War Room" desk jockey jobs while the rest of you will be slowly put out to the streets to raise money. There will be some time for singing anf theatrics, but saving humanity comes with a price tag. Here we have a blog about a return to intersection deployments. When you yutes start to wear signs and approach cars keep in mind that we did this a lot in the past. ALso keep in mind that you will probably not be in the LYM when the first cases of skin cancer from the sun and cancer from the exhaust fumes deposits carcinogens into your young, fresh, supple bodies. Up next, the intersection squads come back. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 57 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
********************************************* Wednesday, May 30, 2007 Lyndon Larouche Gave Me Mumps: A Tale of a Misspent Afternoon There's something about people begging for money on street corners that's always set me on edge. I'm not talking about homeless people, or anyone in direct need of hand-to-mouth help to get them through the day. No, I'm talking about people who collect money for causes: firemen with boots, Kiwanians with peanuts, schoolkids with plastic milk jugs raising money for band camp. It's not that I have anything against any of those causes; most are worthy and could really use the cash. But people walking in traffic make me nervous, and people who ask me for money make me self-conscious, which is just too much pressure for one guy out on a drive. So, when I pulled up to an intersection the other day and spotted a woman walking my way with an armful of pamphlets, my first reaction was to fiddle with the radio, take sudden interest in the contents of my glove box, and generally do everything I could to avoid eye contact until the light turned green and I could go on my antisocial way. Then I noticed that the woman was wearing a sandwich board with the words "IMPEACH CHENEY". Now, anyone who knows me knows that this kind of direct appeal to my personal politics is guaranteed to overcome any situational discomfort I might be feeling. And who knew that sandwich boards were still in fashion? It was a bold show of commitment. I rolled down my window and said hello. Immediately, she launched into her spiel, a kind of rapid-fire ramble, racing the green light. Republicans and Democrats failing this country? Check. War in Iraq driving big business profits? Natch. Need for a change? Gotcha. Then came the pitch: "We're raising $100 a day for Lyndon Larouche so that he can…" At that point, my brain shut out the rest. In the words of Frank Sinatra, by way of Phil Hartman, "Boo hoo. You had me, then you lost me." I looked for an exit, and handed the pamphlets back to her, saying, "Thanks, but I don't support Larouche." The light up ahead was, annoyingly, still red. "But how can you say you don't support Larouche when you're handing me a book with his name on it?" My confused look would have stopped a carnival barker, but she continued. "Why do you give me that book if Lyndon Larouche isn't real and why would I take it from you? If you take that book from me then Lyndon Larouche might give you mumps." More stunned silence. For a moment, I wondered if a stroke was working its way through the speech centers of my brain. Perhaps I had just forgotten how language worked. She stood there, with something between a challenge and an expectation on her face. The cicadas sang in the trees and that damn light was still red. "I'm sorry," I said. "I don't think I understand what you're saying." | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 58 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
"Well, it makes about as much sense as what you just said!" After which, she proceeded to tear the pamphlets from my hand and huff away in search of more kindred minds. But as I began to pull away (About time! Thanks for having my back there, traffic light!), I began to wonder if perhaps I was being unfair by summarily dismissing Larouche. Sure, he was the guy who thought that the Queen of England was a drug pusher trying to assassinate him, and he spent a little time behind bars. But who was I to judge? Was I being too hard on the guy? He referred to himself a conservative democrat, but Eddie Izzard once called himself a lesbian trapped in a man's body, so who's to say who's more conflicted? So, I Googled my way over to Larouche's Wikipedia page and began my journey into the belly of the beast. I read all about his runs for president, his alleged anti-semitism, and the supporter who was allegedly brainwashed to assassinate him. I read about the Schiller Institute, and his plans for the Eurasian Landbridge. It was then that I realized that the real story I was after wasn't Lyndon Larouche's story at all. What I really wanted to know was the story of the woman who had believed in him so much that she was willing to threaten a total stranger with a communicable disease. But I had driven away from that story, and perhaps for the better. So, I'm left now to wonder what the deal was with the strange little woman in her sandwich board, and hope that my sore throat isn't a harbinger of things to come. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=42938783&blogID=270607734 ****************************************** We had Khomenhi target posters, you have Cheney. If you yutes want to get on the NC, suggest that you sell bumper stickers" xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 72.16.145.82 |
The LaRouche/Schacht Method and the Lure of the Cult xlcr4life has well-opined the basic Method. Lyn's true mission is not the furtherance of the work of Jesus Christ ("Jesus Christ & Civilization, 2000) or the attainment of a new monetary system, or a global maglev network. If examined honestly as a historical phenomenon in must be concluded that his goal is, in essence, self-aggrandizement. He exudes a sort of philosophic halo or creedal penumbra, comprised of the doctrinal content enunciated this season. I.e., the political positionings are legion. Virtually every day, something new, some new end-of-the-system imminent crisis, some new Demon. The content of the noetic halo has radically shifted over time. Some of his proposals and notions are definitely not vacuous nor devoid of content; they are intriguing. The problem is that when one looks at his history you find radical transformation of commitment, such that you have to realize he's untrustworthy, especially when you factor in the scammings,the horrid treatment of his associates, the anti-Israelism. Those Lyn draws in may be quite bright by some measures. There are some true revolutionary zealots, but mostly they are weak-willed devotees, of insecure identity, who I would guess believe like I did that they have found, in effect, the Messiah. It's generally a big decision to join. Once In, the inertia of belonging is strong. The group imposes forms of behavior and thought control, such as seeking to limit family encounters; implying that failure to recruit or raise funds is equivalent to sexual impotence; plus spinning world events around the words and deeds of the Messiah. The net effect is rather powerful emotional enforcement in the Creed. I had conflicts about leaving. I had put in years of my life, after all. Lyn will blow up your sense of importance for a while but the key is getting those funds in so he and the NC's can travel first class and the voice and drama lessons of the LYM can be supported. Therefore the Boomers and Tweeners in the org, those over the acceptable-age threshold, must be whipped continuously to produce the income needed to ensure proper functioning. The Boomers despite their exhaustion have really not much other place to go and so they continue to eat the ever-thinning gruel that Lyn and the organization are on the edge of a breakout. This is the basic structure and method. As the older members are cast off and the LYM move into prominence, they will be forced to try and come up with fundraising schemes. Hopefully they will be legal, 'though I know that several of the LYM are not above scamming; there are a number who have reneged on student loan obligations. I don't think the model is viable for much longer. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
"there are a number who have reneged on student loan obligations" This is something which I have been hearing bits and pieces of for years. When I was in we had people who were pretty proud of having skipped out on their loans. Who needed to worry about Loan repays if the whle world economy was going to collapse and the dollar was worthless? I can see an NC taking some yute into a room and asking if they can borrow some money on student loans to fund some "project" with a promise of paying it back. Once the check is signed over the friendly face changes and you will then be whisked into a room where someone like a Leni will look at you like you are crazy for asking for money to make this month's payment. "Don't you know that a nuclear bomb can drop on us at any moment?" What also happens is that you are trapped now as you are now in debt to the cult who have more reasons not to repay you then you have reasons to pay the note. "What? You are worried about your credit report? There will be no credit when the crash hits" "The political situation demands that all money be deployed to print the latest world historical brief by Lyn so cause a phase shift in the Democratic Party" (No wonder Lyn writes a new brief at the beginning and the middle of the month when most payments are due) The cult has another trick which is to make the yute's parents support Lyn. Here is how it works. You can promise a yute anything cause they really have no idea what it costs to live as this is the first time they are on their own. Lyn also has spent quite a few memos on why money is not worth anything and you need to be concerned about the physical economy. Well, everyone else's except yours. Next, once you need something like a coat or cell phone you are encouraged to contact your parents to get some money. Your parents figure that if they give you cash it will go to Lyn, instead pay your car insurance or phone bill. These are pretty cold blooded NCs you are dealing with. They had people evicted for not paying rent to send Lyn money and had members call up their parents to get cash for non existant medical bills. We usually got sick around the time the first presidential committee was set up and needed matching fund money. No matter what the story, you are at the mercy of the cult for your news, reading material, media material, food, clothes, what time to get up, what time to go to sleep, who you will live with and when your day off will be and what you will do that day. You also can be sent to another region and can also expect some slimy old man to question your sexual secrets and life in a late night Beyond Psyche session. If you do not hit quota expect the world to end and then return to the office to see someone who is 30 years older than you but looks 50 years older be yelled at daily by the NC. This has been a 35 year or so farce yutes. Are your qualifications to be with Lyn based on his 1987 WANT AD for today? "Look around you. Who will support us? Who will rally to us? The ones who will rally to us are the emotionally crippled, the grey-faced, the neurologically impaired who, in rallying to us will do the only worthy thing to give meaning to their lives. Thus they will be able to say, 'I wasn't important but I contributed to victory " xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
xlcr4life, that is good stuff; I think Lyn's public and shameless megalomania may have peaked around then. If you watch the video of the Celebrating the Year of St. Augustine or whatever it was, in '86 or '87, you'll see Lyn vociferously gesticulating, in real Il Duce form, as he raves that This is the Year of Destiny, it is THIS Year when the Great Decision must be made, when I must be allowed to Assume My Proper Role. Also around this time, and in the video, he was hinting in not-so-subtle ways that homosexuals could use a baseball bat beating or two. Once Harley started schmoozing with the gay guy in the LA Dem party leadership, Lyn mellowed out and gayness became OK. What had been a "disease with a specific etiology" as he wrote in the early 80's, became an acceptable lifestyle choice. Talk about phase shifts! This is one of the things that really irked me. If only Lyn could have just fessed up and said, "Yeah, I was a Marxist, but I've seen the light; the American System is basically my new ideal." Instead of honesty, it's the Memory Hole: Lyn has ALWAYS been the Leibnizian JQ Adams FDR ur-patriot. Just forget all that other stuff... Since 2000 the task has been to forge a new functional ideology. Not only was Fernando purged; for the next 5 years he was a veritable constant rhetorical companion. On and on and on went Lyn's diatribe against him. Most of the difficulties we had in organizing and fundraising were attributable to his satanically insidious corrupting effect as a plant/enemy agent in the organization. Lyn could never let it go. I never knew Fernando and could never make much sense of why he was so loathed, even after he was gone. Supposedly he had a photo of Franco on his wall... rather like Lyn's photo of Eva Peron, perhaps. The LYM was forged as a goal, partly for structural-functional reasons and partly because I think Lyn really thought he could break through and create a revolution. Modeled on "Ben Franklin's Youth Movement" ---an interpretation that had it that a few 20 yr olds led the American Revolution; ahem...--- the LYM now represented the last hope for the nation and mankind. Thus, all organizational resources possible were to be devoted to recruitment of youth. Now the LYM is founded as a notion, their number... 100? 150? Not enough to change history very much, but it keeps Lyn's ego flames pretty stoked. However the fundraising has gotten far harder as the old regular sources and contacts have begun to die off and as Lyn's press has fallen to absolute zero. Lyn continually attacks the senior members for their utter and tenacious failure to enact his policy of mass public recruiting. Given this ideological structure, therefore, the forecast looks strong: as the Boomers croak off or are forced to go seek jobs as Wal Mart greeters, the LYM begin to move into ... deployment-drone mode. It's QUOTA TIME, BABY! The delusions would be hilarious weren't it so sad to consider that a lot of people's lives have been eaten up by the Messiah Ogre. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Saturday is usually the day we sent out everyone to shopping malls and plazas to sell lit and hopefully hit quota early enough to call it a day. If your region was behind in the quota then you could figure that the NC was going to tell you to stay out till 9 PM and do a walking tour. The phone teams would go till 11 PM every night as we had a bright idea to have our people call early time zones. If by midnight the country was behind, then you could look forward to a Sunday fundraising emergency. Today my Saturdays consist of working around the house I own and planning things to do with my childen. In the course of my looking at how Lyn is able to take a rationale subject like Al Gore and transform yutes into frenzied , foaming at the mouth rabid street walkers, I noticed something which bothered me. When I was in elementary school we lyp synched the Tennesee Ernie Ford song "16 Tons" in the 3rd grade. In a cadre school last month Lyn said the following which was again out into the briefings for yutes to swallow. ************************************************* LaRouche: Well, they're both fascists. Essentially, it's true, that Al Gore—and I try to get it out of the people—did you ever hear this song, this country song from Tennessee about the company store ["Sixteen tons"]? Now, who owned the company store? Who owned the company that ran the company store, which was made notorious by this song? The company store? Al Gore, personally. Al Gore is, essentially, a fascist. And he comes from the Tennessee swamps by pedigree. He is also a confirmed racist; he's done things which he is guilty of as hell. In Africa, he's a racist; he's a killer racist in Africa. He's also listed as a Democrat; so are many leading members of the Ku Klux Klan, and he comes from that particular pedigree. I don't know if it's mint juleps or something else. ********************************************** Now 3rd grade was a long time ago for me, so I looked this up as I never heard of this. http://www.ernieford.com/SixteenTons.htm So did Lyn pull this out of a** as I could not find any mention of Al Gore or his father being the inspiration of the song from the people who actually wrote it. Yutes, what sort of mularky are you being fed daily? When I am finished with my little comments on how Lyn uses a sort fo 12 step formula to larouchify yutes, I will post it here. In the meantime, I have a lot to do with the family this weekend. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Oh, I almost forgot. Reading about the company store and songs about slave labor popped a a few memory cells in my head. We had a company work song in the LC TOO!!!!! It was created in the Detroit region in the late 1970's when we would send squads to stand all day at highway off ramps to sell bumper stickers, posters and lit while wearing the A frames. The field hands in Detroit created this little ditty in between sucking in exhaust fumes and absorbing incredible levels of sun light on their skin. The song was called "Buck a light Jones" Buck a light Jones was a prototypical field hand LCer who was sent to the off ramps every day and had that as his destiny. He or she had a basic spiel about nuclear was, Jimmy Carter, Larouche which was timed for the trafiic light. If you got a buck at every other light you hit quota and had some cash to take so you could eat that evening. If anyone from the Detroit region can recall the lyrics, please share. The NCs hated it because it depressed in a way our field hands, but they enjoyed the cash at the end of the day. Lyn enjoyed the cash at the end of the week. The people who controlled and filled Lyn's head and his Fictitiuos Shadow Government enjoyed it at the end of the month. Start singing yutes. Buck a light Megan, huuuummmmmm Buck a light Cody huuuummmmmm Buck a light Sky huuuummmmmm xlcr4life@hotmail.com (Message edited by xlcr4life on June 02, 2007) | ||
| charltonrom New member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
We used to be lashed for not getting all the lit out. I couldn't understand why Lyn would print 50 million copies of his every 3rd sentence. There was no way we could get that much out. A slight shortage of flu vaccine proved "Bush is a killer" as the leaflet said so Lyn printed millions of leaflets. The worst were the broadsheets which were awkward and on crappy paper. I used to throw away tons of aged lit, hauling it out of the lit room clandestinely to a dumpster to try and free up some space. For a while in '03 or so it seemed like maybe we were getting somewhere. I didn't know yet that Lyn's narrative of his persecution was a crock nor how deep ran his pathology. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Lyn was prosecuted, not persecuted. This persecution nonsense was when he was on his "Mission from God" kick as we have quoted on factnet.org many a time. The Blues Brothers were on a Mission from God". Lyn is on a Mission from Odd. Ask yourself if Lyn paid for those leafletts and pamphlets when PMR printed them up? If not, why were yutes told that there is no money for stipends and expenses. Did the FSG get the cash? Rise and shine yutes. You need to sing for spare change and dance between cars at stoplights. If the yutes have enough talent maybe they can improvise a new modern Buck a light Jones song based on a classical performer named Fred Astaire. "I'm singing in the pain, just singing in the Pain!" xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.146.158 |
I was particularly struck by the remark that was reportedly made by John Scialdone's lawyers to the jury. If true, that must be the worst case of malpractice (although I'm sure the NCLC thought it was great) in legal history. But it's typical of the condescension that Lyn feels towards the real live masses as opposed to his fantasy image of the American population rallying around Beethoven, Schiller and Gauss while triumphantly placing LaRouche in the White House (or perhaps putting him in some secret backroom position where he can advise the leaders of the world on putting together their maglev train network. Amazing that I ever believed in that crap and tried to sell it to others. | ||
| charltonrom Junior Member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
OK it is time for some heavy hitting and ogre's advocacy now. Lyn WAS persecuted. What were the charges? It wasn't mail fraud and tax evasion; it was "conspiracy" charges! Conspiracy to commit mail fraud, and conspiracy to impede the functioning of the IRS, if memory serves. The loans weren't repaid because Justice declared involuntary bankruptcy on the publishers, and seized and shut down the publications and presses. This was even declared illegitamate later by a Federal circuit judge. As Bob Dole put it, Conspiracy is what they get you on when they can't get you on anything else. Lyn WAS a megalomaniac, AND he •••••• off the oligarchy. His work on the debt bomb, his public advocacy of a new international credit agency, his advocacy of SDI vs the Baker Republicans: these are the sorts of things that get the ATF bureau or Justice Dept permanent bureaucracy after you. Throw in fusion-power advocacy and he becomes a threat to establishment structures. Whilst we carp Lyn engages the Moscow science establishment. This to me is the incredible irony: maybe megalomania is required to work on the World stage. | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Lyn is just one nut among many (e.g., members of the John Birch Society or or the National Alliance) who rail against elements of the so-called oligarchy. If there be such a class, I am certain he is of zero account. He most certainly was not engaging anyone at all in Moscow, let alone an entire establishment - scientific or otherwise. It was simply a one-hand-washes-the-other affair. Lyn is a nonentity - except to the individual lives and families he has destroyed. | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 |
Hm. Foreign Dictators channeling Lyndon Larouche to try to tap into the American public. I noticed this : http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/02/sudan_ambassador.asp June 2, 2007 (LPAC)--Ambassador Ukec Lueth Ukec will be the guest on The LaRouche Show, the internet radio program that is broadcast weekly from the website, http://www.larouchepub.com/radio/index.html, on Saturdays at 3 PM Eastern time. Ambassador Ukec gave a press conference in Washington, D.C. this week, just after the White House announced punitive sanctions against Sudan for allegedly not accepting a UN peacekeeping force--an allegation which is not true. In his press conference, where he shocked the Washington press corps with his defiance, the ambassador vigorously defended Sudan's sovereignty, saying, "The U.S. must not go beyond our sovereignty. We are the owners of our country. The sanctions are a recipe for disintegration. John Ukec Lueth Ukec most recently ebbed his way into the news by holding a press conference where he threatened the US that if our government proceeds with sanctions, they will stop trading gum arabic, which is an ingredient in cola. Dana Milbank responded with a snarky line: As diplomatic threats go, that one gets high points for creativity: Try to stop the killings in Darfur, and we’ll take away your Coca-Cola. The Sudan ambassador -- he does know what a non-factor Larouche is? Or is it a case of anyone who shows up who promises favorable coverage? | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 63 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Charltonrom, the revision of what happened is basically a Larouche Urban legend for the memebership. Most of this of for yutes who get a version where Lyn compares himself to MLK and ooohs and ahhhs yutes whose only act of civil disobedience was stomping their feet when they did not get a Nintendo 64 when it first came out. The remaining deadenders , like everything else they have witnessed WISH to believe this and put on larouche specs to ignore the simple fact that two things happened. -We had many instances of double billings of CCs during our fund raising marathons which never ended. Gee, evn PBS knows when to stop bothering people. -We issued promisorry notes which went from simple 500 dollar loans to figures approaching millions on some individuals. Almost every state and local prosecutor ignored this as like most INITIAL white collar scams it was considered a civil vs criminal matter. If you want to see how this happens every day, just look what happens between most individuals and contractors in home improvement squabbles. Police do not wish to chase contractors because these are often intensive paper trails and rather tell you that it is a civil issue. Even with it being a civil issue we were sued all voer the country by people who lebt us money. I have some of this from Canadians who got tangled up with us in earlier , pre criminal investigations. I used those examples because it was a pretty fair example of that being multiplied many times over. The criminal investigations began when several families of elderly supporters went to press and different regulatory office to file complaints and were tired of being jerked around by local police. In the initial phase of this we paid off the back charges and loans, usually by negotiating a payment plan which of course with our history is pretty useless. To fund Lyn's ever increasing FSG side show in Lyn's head meant that whatever budget you set would be wiped out on a whim by Lyn. A lawsuit against a NJ bank did not go as planned as too much of our tricks I think were revealed which opened up more questions. WE were borrowing massive amounts of money and Lyn set himslef up as a nice Virginia gentlemen farmer on his estate. We used to fly our big money contacts to be wined and dined by our local minstrels. The word you need to know is "Specials" This was money beyond the normal quotas and was done by our top fundraisers around the country. Part of this involved using accountants or people who claimed to be accountants convincing old people that they should liquidate their portfolios and INVEST in us via promisorry notes at rates beyond what was a normal CD return. This opened up another level of income as we now could go after people who siad that their money was "locked up" in stocks and bonds. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Keep in mind that the messianic end of the world as we know it and an imminent KGB takeover fo the world was being used against BOTH the fundraisers and the supporters to an incredible intensity. In the NYC finance office some members who knew how to do spread sheets looked at this and got real scared as there was no way you could run this scheme and have it work. IMPORTANT NOTE. This is a cult not a non profit. there is no CFO or any traditional checks and balances or balance sheets for member viewing. LYN is the boss and in situations like this you often call this a mafia style operation. Conspiracy comes in because , well, what else do you call it when you fly a whole region out of the country to evade subpoenas and investigators and have notebooks about the plans written by your security people. Hasn't Lyn caught on to how Jeff and Paul have fed him a steady diet of FSG ghosts? Read the stories of the victims and put yourself in my position when the day after the forced bankruptcy the NCs and fundraisers all say, "Great, this means we do not have to pay this back. When people call for their money, tell them to call the US DOJ or the Judge to get it back!" Sure enough, we actually gave some people whom we considered to be pricks about THEIR money gov phone numbers. The insanity of Lyn is that we could have avoided all of this by repaying some of the money and pleading somethign like no contest and this would have stopped. The total we blew on lawyers and expenses was way beyond what we were accused of stealing, but that is how Lyn operates in the real world when it conflicts with his lunacy. There is a whole other world of this which is not generally known involvong plea deals by Lyn for him to go free and incredible testimony by him and others which is riveting. THAT was not put in the books and briefings by us for a reason. Even the trial was a Potemkin village for members. You will notice another round of an exodus from the LC when bits of this leaked out to people. Just keep checking in and eventually these thigns will be posted. http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/1990-5/1990-05-21-NBC-14.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/larouche/larou7.htm http://www.rickross.com/reference/larouche/larouche47.html xlcr4life (Message edited by xlcr4life on June 03, 2007) | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
From FRM Weekly (published by Fundraising Magazine) 6/20/90] Helen Overington is $741,268.84 poorer but Wiser after fund raisers for imprisoned political extremist Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. persuaded her to part with increasingly large chunks of her life savings. Overington made the donations over a year-long period, having first agreed to subscribe to the LaRouche periodical, Executive Intelligence Review for $250. The bulk of the gifts-of cash, stocks, and bonds-were solicited by Rochelle Ascher, who'd been convicted on nine counts of securities fraud involving a $30-million loan scheme and is free on bond pending appeal. Overington and her children have gone public, hoping to lay bare the LaRouche organization's tactics and prevent other vulnerable individuals from being fleeced. Daughter Peggy Weller says Overington "feels she was totally defrauded." She says there's "no evidence at all" the gifts actually went to fund the leaflets, ads, and Eastern European relief projects Ascher described during her repeated late-night visits to Overington's Baltimore apartment.. Weller says a petition has been circulated in suburban Loudon County, VA to revoke Ascher's bail, and Overington, who kept detailed financial records, would testify against her at a hearing to be scheduled. The VA state Attorney General's Office has also moved to have Ascher's bond revoked, alleging she solicited contributions using "misrepresentation and undue pressure," according to The Washington Post. Defectors Speak LaRouche organization defectors have told Weller its donations go into a general operating fund, bankrolling the WATS lines instrumental to its fund raising. Upper-echelon solicitors such as Ascher, she says "live really well." Weller doesn't expect to recover her mother's savings, noting the organization has a series of front companies, enabling it to transfer funds "from bank to bank." People have won judgments, but when they freeze the bank account assets, there's nothing in them. Ascher's attorney, John P. Flannery II, told The Post Overington "gave voluntarily." Weller, however, contends LaRouche specifically targets elderly, isolated people who have supported conservative causes, a description Overington largely met. Many of the people who'd "loaned" LaRouche money were also elderly, according to Federal Election Commission records. "Political Cult" Weller considers the organization "a political cult," charging they coerce donations by inducing guilt and pressure. She says she suspected her mother had become a LaRouche donor after the normally open woman rebuffed her questions on the subject. Principals at Southeast Literature Sales & Co., the firm Weller says Overington was solicited through, declined to respond to her assertions. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Weller says Flannery has countered their statements by accusing the siblings of attempting to manipulate the press. They intend to start a victims' service hotline and newsletter, and may also circulate a cautionary video to retired and elderly groups. Weller says Overington felt her donations "could make a positive difference in the world. Obviously she's devastated that's not the case. Now she can't believe she gave so much so quickly." LaRouche, now serving a 15-year term for mail fraud and tax-evasion charges resulting from the $30-million loan trial, has raised $221,318 for his independent House run against Republican Rep. Frank R. Wolf in VA's 10th district, reports The Post. The "LaRouche For Justice" campaign is being directed out of his prison cell, from where he also controls his organization's financial, legal, and publishing operations. More than $99,000 of the funds have gone to PMR Printing-one of about 10 businesses previously connected to the LaRouche network-for producing fliers and brochures. Always keep in mind that in cases like this, a small percentage of victims come forward. Shelly Ascher now turns up in DC with the gall to be concerned about how the elderly can live off of Social Security on the Hill. Do you see why I call this the Bizarro World? xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
One common theme in Labor Committee history is the defense of brigands, outlaws, dictators, Nazi rocket scientists or any other sort of reprobate - so long as they give Lyn a hearing, on whose behalf in return the LaRouche propaganda machine goes into full swing: Saddam, the Teamsters, Harrison Williams, Marcos and so on to the present. Lyn is very needy for attention and will get it wherever he can, clearly. Sick. After two weeks we'll know if Tony Soprano gets added to the list of humanist city-builders, or whatever the code name for the good guys is these days. To the extent that decent and accomplished people come round is usually in response to the good qualities of some among the membership (i.e., the dreaded "boomers.") Then the exaggeration-machine kicks in so that one legitimate actor's involvement is misconstrued to demonstrate how the "acting establishment" is being challenged. You see the briefings. Leaflets are not distributed, they are "snapped up." Ooo, a squad at X College sold $20 worth of lit and got thirty contacts and caused a firestorm of debate on campus. Oh yeah? Check the public trash receptacles within a fifty-foot radius of the card-table shrine. Let's none of us trying to recover from this experience lapse back into participating in the Walter Mitty daydreams of a crazed and lonely old man. | ||
| joesixpack New member Username: joesixpack Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.83.180.108 |
ok, well i just want to applaud charltonron's post of 6-3...it echoes some of my own, to which i shall thoughtfully provide links, for the interested: http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4&post=392156#POST392156 and http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4&post=392385#POST392385 and finally http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4&post=392976#POST392976 now as i mentioned in one of these posts, i listen to the briefings while driving...and while on my way to the 7-11 for a daily dose of coffee, cigarettes, nubile scantily-clad women and god-awful love songs, i listened to a briefing dealing with the square root of negative one and dick cheney; where else but in the world of larouche would i find such a combination?...my education in mathematics is quite poor, and i don't expect to actually learn anything from such lectures...but i find it incredibly refreshing and stimulating to hear such topics discussed, both singularly and in juxtaposition...and it's hard for me to root for the extinguishing of the organization that can bring me such fare...at one time in this forum i asked in all sincerity for members to post credible alternatives to the EIR...some tried, but their suggestions were lame...which is why i wound up resubscribing, a decision i more or less regret now, since the magazine no longer arrives at all...it really seems to me that the org is seeing the arrival of the grim reaper at its doorstep, and while some here will cheer, my world will be just a little bit less interesting... | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Again, one of the principal attractions of this - and many another - cult is that it offers one-stop shopping for those of a political and intellectual bent. That is also why this is a cult, because life is too rich and interesting to be reduced to the musings of one individual who is a proven liar, fraud, and intellectual and moral bankrupt. It is also a shell game: one learns something about the square root of negative one; then, as soon as one attempts to delve a little more deeply and finds that the presentation is at best sketchy, it's on to Dick Cheney, and then on to howling slave songs, and then on and on and on, always keeping one's eye off the pea as one's pocket is picked. There are many materials available online and elsewhere on subjects in which one is interested. The reason there is no alternative to EIR is that it is irrational to presume that any one publication is going to satisfy all of one's concerns. I would suggest we start to take responsibility for own intellectual development and make appropriate choices for ourselves rather than lazily cast our hopes on one person, no matter how wise and knowledgeable one may regard that person - most certainly if that person has repeatedly been demonstrated ad nauseam to be manifestly neither wise nor knowledgeable. | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 |
For Joe Sixpack: To each new mark, the organization seems refreshing and stimulating--until you actually get entangled in it deeply enough to realize that its members are brutalized and abused, defending their abuser just as abused wives do, or as the Stockholm Syndrome exemplifies. Then it's way less refreshing and stimulating. It becomes sickening. The average member of the LaRouche org is not unlike Patty Hearst after she spent months in captivity with the Symbionese Liberation Army--that is, nuts. She identified with her oppressors. So do Labor Committee members--that's why the Baby Boomers are still there, even though they are humiliated and attacked and derided every single day. Your world may be a little less interesting if the organization goes under, but for those of us who once knew the late Ken Kronberg, and I'm sure for his family and friends, if that happens, the world will be a little more just. The combination of the square root of minus 1 and Dick Cheney is bizarre, frankly, not educational--particularly since LaRouche will invariably fly into a rage at any mathematician who uses the term "imaginary number" (well, naturally; Descartes was the first to use it) and then fly into a rage at Lynne Cheney as a lesbian witch who is running the world (one more unpleasant expression of LaRouche's conviction that it's always the woman's fault). This is not the stuff of intellectual stimulation, unless you mean to include studies in abnormal psychology--because that's what and who LaRouche is. How else explain his venom against Euler, Euclid, "Synarchism," Aristotle, and Lynne Cheney, all in one demented package? What you're getting here is the secret language of a crazed secret society, and unless you know the right code words and chants, and unless you bring forth the right formulas and spells at the right time, you are not a member of this Inner Elite. And if not a member, you are a worthless excuse for a human being, salvageable only if you have the great good fortune to encounter the Singing Youth of the LYM. | ||
| charltonrom Junior Member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
Sancho: well said, indeed; but allow me please to wistfully stroke one more time my cracked chain. For me the organization has still some appeal, because Lyn, despite his decades of chicaneries and absurdities, remains a focal point for certain necessary concepts that I don't really see coming out of any other voice or forum; at least, there's no one PERSON giving personal leadership in these necessary directions, viz: 1. It does feel to me somewhat that we are in a crisis period of history--- of course, when hasn't it been a crisis, but the question, Where are we going? How will we attain any sort of species consciousness that will permit us to achieve the sorts of physical powers to do things like stave off asteroids, which would be immensely challenging technically but is unthinkable in today's world. What is our destiny? At SOME point, we have to either move out and attempt to gain such powers, or we resign ourselves, in the end, to extinction. Maybe that, or collapse backward is soon, if Cheney and his ilk are pushing for expansion of war... In this sense even if his details are wrong, something resonates in his discourse; perhaps this "eschatological" dimension helps to explain his appeal. 2. Chicaneries and incongruities accepted, I wonder if part of this is that Lyn had forged or at least stumbled upon/cobbled together a sort of ecumenical theism, with the forwarding for consideration of such classical concepts as imago viva dei/capax dei, and the insistence on the fundamental importance of the species-distinction between man and ape, based on our ability to transform our environment in ways no other animal can. In brief then, Lyn for me can't be trusted nor directly followed as a leadership figure; but at the same time, he did collate a considerable mass of interesting doctrine and proposals. If you read his speech in Warsaw from '03 or so, in which the topic is basically sanitation and basic economic infrastructure-building, I think we have to admit that there is more to him than just a shyster---though he does, too, seem to well capture that appellation. Lyn is (unwittingly) instructive and epochal, even, because he instructs us in the mixed-character-of-man difficulties we face in forging a philosophy for the future. | ||
| charltonrom Junior Member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
Well I posted my last before seeing Eaglebeak's, and feel justly sillified. Further comments appreciated. | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
Charltonrom, you're undergoing a process of disabusing yourself of the godhead of LHL, and it will take time. If you go back several years on FACTNet, you will see I did the same: you will see I found much good in _Dialectical Economics_, that perhaps the organization could be shorn of zaniness and used as a sane vehicle for the worthy causes of promoting science, technology, classical culture, and peace, that perhaps Lyn was not always mad, that the organization just took a wrong turn when it abandoned Marxism, and so forth. But after the deluge of information and personal witness I have read on this witness board over the same time period, I simply cannot take any of this seriously at all any more. As with you most likely, I was supportive of the cause of science, technology, and classical culture before I hooked up with this lot which is why I joined in the first place. So the task is to return to my own original interests and see best how I can advance these causes without the help of a criminal enterprise cloaked in the guise of a cult of personality. And others are opposing Cheney, trying to avert killer asteroids, etc., but perhaps - sanely and effectively - not all at once. It would be truly crazy if you were just to entirely and immediately turn your back on Lyn after years of devotion, so don't worry if you are not as adamant in opposition at this point as some of us. If you keep reading and most importantly reflecting on your own experience you'll wake up one day and realize that this guy is 100% humbug. But give it time. As an aside, I used to love that term "species consciousness", but now have found that for me it is hard enough just struggling to be a good man one day at a time. For me, humility has been the hardest virtue to come by since leaving this cult. | ||
| borisbad New member Username: borisbad Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.146.158 |
The idea that combining Cheney and square root of 1 is nothing that makes Lyn unique. Every night on History Channel and Discovery Channel the more oddball theories come up like: the pyramids were created by 1) the Atlanteans, or 2) alien visitors or 3) both. Or other stuff like the Dan Brown conspiracies about Opus Dei and DaVinci, etc. This stuff always causes people to lap up the latest new "discovery". Think of what's been written about the Freemasons for a couple of hundred years for instance. And of course feeling that one has learned the "secrets of the inner elite" etc. makes one feel superior since one has learned "secret knowledge" without having had to go through the arduous process of actually learning a subject area. One can rely on repeating something that Bruce Director or Larry Hecht writes about Gauss and believe one has actually mastered Gauss's mathematics. Once Lyn suggested creating a new university like the University of Gottingen in Germany. If he was serious that idea could have had real merit, and one could perhaps unite those minds who were really breaking new ground in different areas of science, math, etc. But it's much easier to simply get the masses of LYM members to raise money for Lyn's latest "discoveries" instead. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 68 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
How to be a laroucheaholic in 12 easy steps. We are going to see how Lyn's lunacy is a systemic production in the LC/LYM Bizarro world. I will show you the mysteries of how you can create a laroucheaholic in 12 easy steps. When you run into the cult or get a phone call from them, the first words are usually going to be pretty harmless about something you may or may not agree with. That is by design as the lunacy will slowly build up and hit a fever crescendo pretty soon. If anything sounds screwy at the first sound, run away as your initial agreement with a cult about any issue will come back to blind you to what you thought was screwy in the first place. I should talk and I will be the first to admit that when I first heard about brainwashing plots and how Rocky controled the universe, I should have run. Instead, like a naive yute, I thought I was going to be active in supporting Fusion power. I had no idea that a few years later I would be supporting Lyn's attempt to breed a Master Race of Golden Soul Steers in Leesburg. The 12 steps hit me in the face when I did a simple test using Al Gore as a perfect example. People can debate CO2 levels and Al Gore, but that is not the issue here. The issue is how can you take a naive yute and turn them from a cube doubler into a wide eyed , frenzied wacko . A LYM member sent me some briefings and I just copy/pasted any mention of Al Gore in any substance and over 12 briefings you can see the results. Day one April 2 Lyn issues a memo about LPAC and going after Al Gore is part of it. Immediately we notice that the reason given for Gore's speaking trips and activities has nothing to do with any concern of his about environmental issues but far more sinister ones. *********************************************** "And those financial circles pushing Al Gore, throwing millions of dollars behind his lies--as shown in reports below--they, too, are being driven frantic by financial collapse,and are desperately in search of ``the money,'' in the form of new financial bubbles they think can be pumped up. We're dealing with insanity, and fear of truthful action, as the main strategic crisis people face. ************************************************ Regardless of what you may or may not think about global warming, for the yutes on day one Gore exists to confirm Lyn's prediction that the world economy is going to end. since this is now the cult's operational reason for existance, the Six degrees of larouche come into play. What is the six degrees of larouche you ask? It works like this. Once Lyn sets the agenda, the intell and security people have to now prove that they have a reason to be in the same room with Lyn. No matter what the issue or who the peson is, we can link someone to Lyn's plots in six degrees or less. If you look at enough gorups, business meetings, being in the same hemisphere, you can link anyone to anyone. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 69 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
This method now links Al Gore to Bush and Cheney! ************************************************ GORE'S IBERO-AMERICAN SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS ARE A BUSH-CHENEY PROJECT. Among the sponsors of the April 19-20 "Poder-New American Alliance-Green Forum" conference held in Miami are Kissinger McLarty Associates and the Inter-American Development Bank (IADB) whose president, Luis Alberto Moreno, sits on Jeb Bush's Inter-American Ethanol Commission (IEC). The latter group is also sponsoring the May 11 First Congress of the Americas on Biofuels in Buenos Aires, at which Gore is the keynote speaker. Now reports have surfaced, although not confirmed, that Barrick Gold is one of the sponsors of the May 11 conference in Chile, at which Gore is also the keynote speaker, entitled "Gl o bal Warming and Climate Change: The Time to Act is Now." Recall that George H.W. Bush sits on Barrick's International Advisory Committee, along with former Canadian Premier Brian Mulroney. And, not only is Chilean fascist Sebastian Pinera sponsoring that conferen ce, he is also a driving force behind the creation, in Chile, of the "National Committee of Support for Al Gore's Candidacy for the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize." Joining Pinera here is the rabid anti-nuclear activist Sara Larrain. Pinera, like Gore, went to Harvard. Perhaps he and Gore were classmates? ******************************************** Next we read that Al Gore is not really doing this as his own project, but is being funded by people who know that a crash is imminent and need Gore to set up another operation to loot. ******************************************** ARIZONA BANKS, BIG BUSINESS PAYING GORE $165,000 FOR SPEECH TODAY. Biofools' Day featured the announcement that the Gore of Babylon will speak at Arizona State University at Tempe on Monday. Students and faculty reportedly bought out the tickets within seven hours. Behind the glossy cam pus poster of the Earth from space, announcing Gore's appearance, is the sponsorship of the Valley Forward Association. Its most influential members include Wal-Mart, Wells Fargo Bank, KB Homes, Intel, the {Arizona Business Journal}, and an executive committee apparently headed by representatives of Arizona law firms and equity funds. They are paying the Gore of Babylon $165,000--the amount reported by the {Phoenix Daily}--to speak falsehoods to youth at the university...............This, and similar speaking fees and prizes from such sources, also have the aspect of looking like funding for a Presidential campaign by Gore. But more importantly, such financial and corporate circles are frantic about a crash and looking for ``the money''--a new financial bubble. ************************************************ | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 70 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Trying to decipher this is pretty hard and the only thing I can gather is that when Gore talks about new technologies of efficiency or energy production, the oligarchy will use that for some new plot. We end with this about the President of Brazil and Biofuels. ************************************* BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT LULA TELLS BUSH, `FOR ME, THE BIOFUEL ISSUE IS ALMOST LIKE AN OBSESSION.' While Bush spoke quite briefly at the March 31 joint press conference with President Lula da Silva, the latter went on at great length--20 minutes--about the dangers of global warming and the marvelous potentialrepresented by biofuels....Reviewing joint U.S.-Brazilian plans for biofuels projects in Central America and the Caribbean, Lula said "I dream that, at the most, 15 to 20 years from now, that the world will surrender to biofuels." Investors must jump in now, he said, or they will "miss the train." Lula also dedicated a good deal of time to the Doha Round, reiterating his usual argument that global trade would be more "fair," if agricultural subsidies were eliminated by industrialized nations. ******************************************** For the yutes we skip the fact that Brazil is 100 % fueled by ethanol from sugar and wishes to export fuel to the US. The US has a tax on Brazilian ethanol which they oppose, but US producers want. Again, whatever real issues this involves disapears in the Bizarro world as the now Brazil is part of the plot. Briefings are not put together by accident. What is placed there and for that matter, anything in the LC/LYM is by design for effect. I can read a dozen magazines and newspapers to make my own decision. Here, it is made for you. More to come and this is just a warm up. xclr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 71 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Day 2 April 3 Jeff Steinberg is in the running to be the Grand Poobah of the Loyal order of Larouche when the time comes. To place himself on the short list he has to really try to be like Lyn. Here is his intro for today's yutes to wake up to. ************************************************* "WE STAND IN THE WAY OF GLOBAL HELL - In an evening discussion with the NEC on Monday, Lyn reiterated, even more forcefully, the point he made over the weekend in his dialogues with the Los Angeles town hall meeting, and especially in the discussion with the Wiesbaden office. The entire g lobal system is coming down and the world is facing global Hell--unless Lyn's four-powers initiative is adopted now. The United States must align with Russia, China and India to solve the collapse, through cooperation among leading nation-states of this planet, or we all go down in the worst Dark Age in history. We are running the only worthwhile conspiracy that exists. Everything else is just a process of plunge into Hell. ************************************************* The rest of the short slugs are about anti Gore coverage in Europe which is Ok, but, a slug on a legal decision caught my eye. ************************************************* On March 30, however, U.S. District Court Judge Jeffery White, of the 9th District in San Francisco, ruled that the suit has merit, and cited Al Gore's movie in his ruling, saying that something which negatively affects the environment anywhere in the world, will eventually have negative effects on the United States. This is in the spirit of actions in Nazi, Germany, which early on required that all major construction projects be processed through Goering's Reichsnatureschutzgesetz (Forrestry Office), which also held the rights of stripping the assets of corporations for the betterment of nature. ************************************************ Keep this in mind because the suit is over the effects of a project in one place effecting people somewhere else. The LA LYM members should be concerned because the West Coast of the US often has pollutants carried from Asia to their part of the USA. Notice how Gore is now in the company of Nazis for the yutes to absorb. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Next we have the Queen of England slowly entering the fray as another willing co conpirator of Al Gore. Maybe the CFL bulbs she installs in Buckinham Palace will make it easier for her to package her drugs for sale and increase her profit margin. Surley I must be kidding about the Queen of England and Al Gore? Hye, this is Larouche we are talking about. ************************************************* THE QUEEN GOES GREEN. Queen Elizabeth II intends to emulate her son Prince Charles, by appointing environmental consultants to turn the royal palaces into models of environmental efficiency, sources told the {Sunday Times}. Charles is expected to announce in July that his household at Clarence House is "carbon neutral." For the Queen, this will involving changing some of the 40,000 incandescent light bulbs at Buckingham Palace; they have already converted two Bentleys (guess where they hid the other one), and two Rolls Royces into hybrid vehicles. ************************************************* We end the briefing with a report from LA where Lyn addresses the yutes and like a proud father and listens to his offspring who have had his DNA spliced into theirs. ************************************************* The panel of presenters consisted of Ian Overton, Nick Walsh, Aaron Halevy, Brent Bedford and Shawna Rodarte. For all, but one, this was the first public event at which the audience was not just young adults, but tweeners and boomers, also. In the case of two of the panelists, this panel was their first. Ian opened the discussion by taking the argument of Al Gore and the IPCC off of the movie screen and under the microscope.Nick unearthed the roots of the environmentalist movement: the cult of Dionysus, eugenics, financers and Nazism. He made it plain that the Gore hoax equals a racially determined genocide, especially of third world nations. Brent continued in a similar vein and further investigated the question as to what makes society susceptible to scientific fraud. This brought the discussion to Claudius Ptolemy an d th e importance of Johannes Kepler's definitive invalidation of the Ptolmaic system. Aaron then bit into the nitty-gritty of some aspects of the various opinions about celestial mechanics. Bringing the audience into the mind of Kepler, Shawna used a portion of Plato's Phaedo to elucidate Keplers scientific method, that is, a hunt for the best reason as to why the universe is as it is, rather than finding the most accurate mechanical description of the universe and calling that a cause for its being. Shawna, then made the point that once Kepler found the reason, he then looked to conduct a physical experiment; one, which Albert Einstein thoroughly enjoyed. The panel closed with a brief contrast between Gore's view of humanity and that of Kepler. ************************************************* Wow, and we are only on day 2. Wait until you see what makes Gore a real Nazi (Message edited by xlcr4life on June 03, 2007) | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 |
How will we attain any sort of species consciousness that will permit us to achieve the sorts of physical powers to do things like As an aside, I used to love that term "species consciousness", but now have found that for me it is hard enough just That was sort of the end of the rope of a conversation with a current Larouchie I had on my blog. I knew we were talking two different languages here, but I for one was perfectly fine with that. He, Steve, asked: "Do you know the difference between man and beast?" I think my snark-ish answer started with "a miniscule percentage of dna between humans and apes" -- though, I guess I might add a shockingly small overlap between humans and the fruit fly. Beyond that, I have garnered a few things of where Larouche is heading with that question. It does not end entirely well, because the question is where do you fit those humans you have determined are not living up to those Great Heights of Species Conciousness? Sub-humans are they, apparently. Looking up my answer, and I'd probably change a few things having read this board since then, I see: Bestializing is thrown around quite casually in LaRouche’s literature in terms of what various plotters are doing to the masses of people. The Gay Movement, the CIA, and the Dick Cheney Administration are, therefore, Beast-Men. In terms of culture, Beethoven is a Man, The Beatles are Beasts. The French Revolution was •••••••• (and very Aristotlean, I might add), the American Revolution… ARE WE NOT MEN??? Cue Ruth Williams in Younger Than That Now, page 229. The political philosophy feeding LaRouche’s party in 1974 was deemed “Beyond Marxism.” Mastery of it was a requisite of membership. Among other things, we were told the black community was a CIA target and blacks were being manipulated within their CIA-controlled ghetto culture. Jazz was defined as brainwashing. The final logic of this scenario was that black inner city youth — who had obviously succumbed to their CIA masters — could be addressed as “••••••”. “What are you people, fascists?” Bill interjected when we were told this at a briefing. Others in our group quickly backed him up. There was nervous laughter. “Why don’t we just call ourselves the Ku Klux Klan?” I asked. More laughter. The speaker merely smiled and switched to a discussion of Beethoven. This strikes me as another good reason to intertwine politics and culture: if something uncomfortable is brought up about the implications of the political ideology, you can always just change the subject to Beethoven.} ......... I see that this edits for profanity. I wouldn't think the first set of red dots is a negative word, but okay. The second one? Context clues should make it clear that it is the dreaded "N" word. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 73 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Howie, you want some species consciousness? Check out the brief we issued for Debbie Freeman's USLP campaign in Baltimore. http://wlym.com/PDF-SpReps/SPRP24.pdf I posted a while ago how MD. Sen Parren Mitchel had to pull a gun on Larouche crazies on his front lawn. Read that brief and wonder how Debbie Freeman can talk to the Cong Black Caucus with a straight face? It is like Shelly Ascher being concerned about the elderly and how they can manage on only Social Security. The Larouche crackpots can "prove" that Al Gore is a racists who wants to kill 2 billion dark skinned people. Debbie Freeman runs around DC with a foaming at the mouth full moon influence every day about Gore. Her self professed written history is on the LYM web site with this pamphlet which the yutes can't seem to find. This is the Bizarro world after all. xlcr4life@hotmail.com | ||
| eaglebeak New member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.164.43.2 |
Check out the section in the Freeman pamphlet on Zionism is not Judaism, too. How can Debbie Freeman look any Jews in the face either, after having written that tripe? And the attacks on Mitchell are disgusting. Interestingly, years later, when Judaism was such a giant NO-NO in the org, and when LaRouche was briefly pushing his (nonexistent) ties to the Vatican, Debbie was running around saying she was "only half Jewish" and the "other half" had been Catholic.... This is what I mean about the organization shredding the identities of its members, but having known Freeman years ago, I'd say her identity was not in the best of shape even at the outset. Of course, LaRouche's "Catholic period" didn't last long, because the Roman Catholic Church didn't want any part of him--much to his surprise. So, having figured that out, in a matter of moments he became a vituperative anti-Catholic, assailing Fernando et al., blasting any members who had had or adopted children, and ultimately blowing off the entire Latin American organization. What a guy! | ||
| sancho New member Username: sancho Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 |
hahaha The LYM should note that while Mrs. Fearless Leader was promoting the so-called Club of Life around the time they were born and trying to then enlist the support ($) of pro-life Jews, Evangelicals, and Roman Catholics, Nancy Spannaus - among others in the locals - was regularly and methodically marching female Labor Committee members to the abortionist. For how many deaths in total does that now make the LaRouches responsible? | ||
| shadok New member Username: shadok Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 |
Indeed, since lhl et al always equated "population control" with "genocide"... The org had always this strange way of estimating the death tolls, that is the number of unborn people due to (genocidalist) malthusian policies. In fact, the org IS malthusian: no babies, no elderly allowed. It reminds me another contradiction (amongst so many)... The Club of Life's strategy vis the non aligned mvt and Indira Gandhi in the 1980s, the larouches' "best friend". In 1982 they were her host to defend the antimalthusian... "Club of Life"!!! (as opposed to the malthusian Club of Rome) Well the fact is that a few years earlier Indira Gandhi was ousted from office because of her dictatorial methods: arrest and torture of thousands of political activists; her ruthless clearing of slums and... her brutal Malthusian policies: 8.3 million Indians were sterilized and 5,000 women died, police officers forcibly performing vasectomies etc Of course Indira Gandhi's Malthusian policy was carefully omitted from all the org publications and briefings (this was before Googles age) - that would have been a bit embarrassing and it would have triggered some serious question marks. We were lied the same way the lym are today. The difference is that THEY live in Googles age and therefore I reckon this is the reason why the mind control methods are more brutal and systematic compared to say, in the 70s or the 80s. | ||
| shadok New member Username: shadok Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 |
i meant "her guests"... | ||
| eaglebeak Junior Member Username: eaglebeak Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.164.43.2 |
On Indira Gandhi--she was all the things you say, Shadok. However, she was nobody's fool--I have it on very good authority that after her memorable meeting with LaRouche, she said to her staff, "Never let him near me again" or "Never let that man in here again." So that, as with so many others, LaRouche's great friendship with Gandhi was nonsense. Only the truly desperate or the truly wacky took LaRouche seriously (Ferdinand Marcos talked to Goldstein for awhile, but Goldstein et al. stabbed him in the back; Noriega talked to the Latin American Labor Committee and even held a joint conference with them, but he was both desperate and wacky; Turkey's Ozal met with LaRouche because he thought LaRouche was the head of the U.S. Democratic Party.) On the organization's Malthusianism, it is absolute. No children, no elderly, no health care (if possible); no vacations, no weekends, no leisure, no rest. All the things that enlightened labor policy promotes, LaRouche opposes--for his own people. Listening to him carrying on about Schachtian looting is revolting. Although LaRouche attacked anyone who promoted birth control in the Third World, forced abortion was the order of the day in his own organization. In fact, the "Beyond Psychoanalysis" series purveys the LaRouche theory about pregnancy and birth: Women get pregnant when they get sick of their husbands. (Maybe that was what he thought when his first wife got pregnant with Danny LaRouche. Maybe she WAS sick of him. In any case, they divorced pretty soon thereafter.) LaRouche's other theory was that women get pregnant because they want to be infantile. So the most basic human drive, for a family, is turned by the Champion of Population Growth/ Extended Reproduction--into witchy women's neuroses. Thus LaRouche and Helga and Nancy Spannaus and the others made it into a matter of IMMORALITY, to have a child. Not only were Labor Committee women forced to have abortions, but many of them found, years later, that they could not get pregnant or stay pregnant because of the damage done by those abortions. And this is called a "personal matter of people's sex lives" by the LaRouche morons when questioned. But it NEVER was personal--it was ALWAYS the province of the leadership of the organization, demanding infant sacrifice to the Moloch of Leesburg. | ||
| charltonrom Junior Member Username: charltonrom Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.91.100.62 |
The Moloch of Leesburg... When I was getting in there was a tale that "Lyn is absolutely pro-life," though I observed that he tended to skirt around this issue. Little did I know... The scam in the later 90's/early 2000's was almost perfectly constructed. "Helga has met with the Pope; we've had contact and discussions with Cardinal Ratzinger..." The residue of the Catholic Lyn conceit melded in to the rhetoric of this period in quite a convincing way, with the Dialogue of Civilizations pamphlet especially. On this reading Lyn (with some warts to be sure) could nonetheless pass for a grandfatherly Great Patriot, of essentially original national stock, fighting for the soul of his country, beleaguered by our great national enemy Britain and its agents here. It seemed like such a coherent narrative, it explained so much. Eventually I wised up to the romanticist/Rousseau-ite ideological core, to the class-war demagoguery, and to the increasingly thin and ludicrous explanations of contemporary events. | ||
| howie New member Username: howie Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 |
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/al_gore_at_town_hall Six LaRouchies, everyone immediately presumes, dressed like Christmas elves or something just interrupted. No, wait. Their supposed to be those chanting monks from Monty Python and the Holy Grail—they’re chanting something and hitting themselves on their empty heads with their idiotic tracts. “That’s the LaRouche cult,” says Gore, as Town Hall ushers rush them out of the auditorium, to applause. “For some reason they’ve taken a liking to me.” ....................... | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
We jump to day 3 on March 22 After a lull, the briefing gets fired up because Al Gore is in front of congress. it is highly unlikely that members are watching the Cspan video and if they are, the only thing in their head is that Gore is a Nazi eugenics racist who wants to kill dark skinned people. So here we go - FASCIST GORE IS POISON FOR THE DEMOCRATS - - LAROUCHE BUILDING `BIPARTISAN COMMITTEE OF THE SANE' - After Al G ore's appearance before both House and Senate committees yesterday, Republicans are "smelling a big fat opportunity," and if the Democrats are insane enough to follow Gore, "Don't even bother choosing a Presidential candidate for 2008," warned Lyndon LaRouche yesterday. The lunatic Green Nazi Gore, swelled to an incredible width, oiliness, and floridity since his last appearance in the halls of Congress, called for the United States to ban the light bulb! tax water consumption! shut down every power plant in the country!......... Back in the 1930s, Hitler lectured his British supporters that all of Europe should agree, {never} to allow the "agricultural countries" to develop industry. Gore is directly in that Nazi line, making the same fascist demand. ........ *************************************** Read Gore's testimony and see if they are watching the same TV. Here is an NPR report with links http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9072304 ************************************************* March 21 (EIRNS)--GORE CALLS FOR BANNING INCANDESCENT LIGHT BULB, in hours-long testimony before two House subcommittees this morning. Then the Senate Environment Committee devoted the afternoon to his raving and lies. At least, the puffy, red-faced speaker claimed to be Al Gore, although witnesses swore that he was actually Ariel Sharon, with a few touches of makeup to make him reminiscent of Gore. ****************************************** More Nazi references about Gore conducting a Nuremburg rally at a Walmart. I thought Gore was there for the discounts on CFL bulbs for his house. ***************************************** GORE, EVAGELICALS WORSHIP GAIA AT WALMART. In Mid-July 2006, Al Gore participated in a Nuremberg rally w ith the Rev. Jim Ball of the Evangelical Environmental Network at the Bentonville Arkansas headquarters of Wal-Mart. (Rev. Ball is a U.S. agent for Britain's Sir John Houghton, Margaret Thatcher's climate chief whose IPCC is Gore's global warming authority.) ***************************** Now we bring back one of Lyn's old enemies, the evil C. Boyden Gray and the infamous Club of Rome! The issue is never what the actual reality is fo what is being said, but transforming it into a version for the LYM who may never read the original version. | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 75 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Here is TREC http://www.trecers.net/ What this remionds me of is how when I was in we created a whole new conspiracy of how the Rockefellers were going to use slave labor under methadone to work like zombies at shale oil mines in Colorado and Canada. Today, people flock to those places to get in on the money to be made. *************************************** EU "RENEWABLES" POLICY: A NEW KIND OF COLONIALISM. Cementing the backwardness of the developing sector nations, keeping their role as raw material suppliers, continuing the policy of genocide under another flag now, is what the core of the European Union's drive for "renewable energy sources" is. One aspect of that became public several weeks ago, when US Ambassador C. Boyden Gray told the Europeans at a Brussels meeting to drop plans for expensive bio-fuels production in Europe, and open their market for mass imports of cheap ethanol from Brazil and Central America. Indeed, the required state funding of bio-fuel production in Europe to make bio diesel and ethanol prices affordable, would run into conflict with the policy of the EU Commission to phase out all state funding of production. Another aspect is the insane idea of constructing huge solar power parks in the North African deserts, to supply Europe with cheap power. That p r oject is runing under the name of TREC (Trans-Mediterranean Renewable Energy Cooperation), a project that originates with the Club of Rome and has been adopted by the European Commission, in the context of its own EUMENA (Europe-Middle East-North Africa) scheme. ************************************************ More "research' to prove that Al Gore is a Nazi. ******************************************** HOW THE BRITISH HITLER PROJECT BECAME AL GORE'S GLOBAL WARMING. The Global Warming hoax became a worldwide campaign in the 1980s through intervention of Margaret Thatcher's British government regime. Guided into environmentalism by advisor Sir Crispin Tickell, Mrs. Thatcher pounded on the theme at various summit conferences, wearing down the resistance in the U.S.A. and elsewhere. This British genocidal policy was earlier enunciated in a meeting between Adolf Hitler and Lord Lothian (Philip Kerr), the chief of the Milner group/Round Table faction which was sponsoring Hitler's German dictatorship. Adolf Hitler told Lord Lothian in their meeting Jan. 29, 1935, "Germany, England, France, Italy, America and Scandinavia... should arrive at some agreement whereby they would prevent their nationals from assisting in the industrializing of countries such as China, and India. It is suicidal to promote the establishment in the agricultural countries of Asia of manufacturing industries." (Transcribed in James R.M. Butler's {Lord Lothian}) ****************************************** To be continued Same Lyn channel Same Lyn time | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 76 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Day 4 march 23 More descriptions of Al Gore as a Nazi who wants to kill dark skinned people on behalf of the British. ************************************************* - GORE'S POLICY IS MASS-MURDEROUS-- - - JUST LOOK AT AFRICA! - British agent, and green fascist, Al `Hermann Goering' Gore left little to the imagination in his Congressional testimony March 21, as he called for denial of life-saving technologies to Americans--and the poor nations of the Third World--in the name of ``stopping global warming.'' Indeed, as the story on the rape of Africa by the British oligarchical bosses and allies of Gore shows, his policy is, in its practical effects, totally racist. As Lyndon LaRouche said yesterday, the only question that remains, is whether Gore is personally racist as well. Can the genocidal policies of Prince Phillip's World Wildlife Fund be pinned on Gore? You betcha they can! Not only has Gore consistently s aid that the cause of the horrendous conditions in Africa is a result of alleged ``overpopulation'' of poor people, but LaRouche pointed out that Gore's track record during the Clinton Administration reveals a directly murderous policy on that continent. ****************************************** The briefing and Lyn now combine to hint that the yutes better get used to raising money in the streets as Lyn starts the process. ****************************************** With this reality in mind--not to mention the civilization-threatening crises of the world financial breakdown and the expanding wars--it is the height of insanity for the Democratic Party to embrace Gore, and his CO2 hoax. Even more insane is the refusal of our own membership to carry out the effective mass outreach required to build the future: the Youth Movement. As LaRouche put it in a conference back in the 1970s, if you don't organize, you are clinically insane. It's even more true today. ************************************************* | ||
| xlcr4life Member Username: xlcr4life Post Number: 77 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.229.112.220 |
Now the secret service and Gore's security better start paying attention because you do not know how crazy a LYM can get and we are only a few days into this . In DC the LYM confront Gore and his wife. ***************************************** |
