| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Not to turn this into a gossip board, but I wonder if some of the oldtimers could provide accounts of famous defections. I left before Zoakos did, and am particularly curious how Lyn's golden boy (after Gus split) went about decamping from the neoplatonic city builders and what the consequences were. Is there anyone of the old NEC left aside from Nancy Spannaus? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
the most important to know about Fearless Leader is -- after his imprisonment -- he has learnt the rules of who to attack and who to stay away from. Fearless sends his minions to break up Dem meetings, chase Lieberman, chase Kerry, make loud noises outside Wal-mart, etc. but the yoots will never be unleashed on Kissinger, etc... i.e. the people who could put Fearless leader away. you see tom, your targets are carefully chosen for you. when i was with the org, i had a discussion over the phone with an old timer about the yoot "movement". we were talking about "strategy", and one of the things that came up was....literally...is "the youth movement is something we can control". tom only gets to rail at permissible targets...lieberman being one of them. new ones will be selected - as usual - as time goes by. Fearlesss has permission for these targets. Other targets however, are not permitted to Fearless. So fearless might grumble about them in passing, but no yoots will ever be set loose upon those above Fearless Leader's assigned station. Going after kate graham, after lieberman, after cheney, after arnie, after wal-mart, after tom's mother and father, after whoever...all these are "products". yes tom, it is about time you learn one more in-house keyword..."product". depending on what CNN or waPo or CBS or NBC is covering, "products" will be designed accordingly. like for example...pictures of prisoners from iraq being splashed across the mainstream media...new product comes out....mark of the beastmen part 2 or is it part 3 ? need something to help boost the coffers...out comes the lar doctrine - not that lar is actually serious about a palestinian state...after all...this is a man who couldn't be bothered about a kurdish state or an east timor state or a tibetan state...but is he bothered about a palestinian state because there is a good market out there...so palestinians get good press...for now. so you see tom, you are nothing but a street vendor/thug...sometimes you sell things by the sidewalk, sometimes you go harass people at their meetings. the "products"...i.e. be it a palestinian state, or a maglev across siberia or a trip to mars...it's just to hook innocent passer-bys..to get their money. and finally tom, fearless Leader has no intention of ever sending you to mars...at least not until his hausfrau's pet cats get there first. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Perhaps it might be helpful to someone to record how I came to leave the NCLC: When I left, I thought LaRouche & Cie were 100% right about everything, and that it was I that was the problem 100%. However, I simply could not bear the lying, the shabbiness of human relations, the continual abuse from people who were clearly lacking in conscience, the shame of standing out in public twelve hours per day like the town loon pushing crazy claims I suspected to be false, and so on, that led me to just leave, heavy hearted: I wanted to fight for humanity, but my organism simply came to resist the environment which seemed necessary to do so. There was simply no rhyme or reason to any of it. But I used to blame this on this or that NEC or NC member for this or that abuse; I used to think, "if only Lyn knew what was going on!" It took years before the light came on that he was the source of all this misery. It took years, because I had such sure faith in his godlike powers of creative mentation, that it took further experience of human beings generally, especially of human beings in power, that I was enabled to understand my LC experience in its proper context, i.e. a cult of personality. The day of liberation came some four years later when I joyfully loaded three large, black plastic garbage bags full of "literature" and hauled them out to the street. I only wish I had saved the internal memos for publication at this time, because then the newcomer to the LC could get an accurate picture of how s/he is viewed by "management." If one is a current member, ask yourself: (1) How does the bad treatment meted out to me daily comport with a "humanist" outlook? Am I not a human being? Even if the deployment/contact meeting went poorly? Or is my humanity contingent upon outcomes, which contradicts the notion of the intrinsic worth of people, the official line of the organization? (2) Is it possible at all that one human being should be right about everything all the time? When has Lyn EVER admitted being wrong? Does that sound normal? Therefore, is this someone I should be following, someone who implicitly claims to be infallible about everything? (3) Let me look at my activity: sales. How are sales helping to build a better world? Really. I hope this helps someone. | ||
| Scott (66.92.173.156) |
Hi All, It's been a long time, but my goal was to shout loud enough until someone heard, and soon a story will come out across the country about the story I have been telling here, and though each day I am worried to hear the story has broken(my name will be used, and I'm sure my life is going to be hard afterward at least for some time), I can come back here and remember it is worth it. One of the things that always appealed to me in the Larouche Cult Movement was that they claimed to tell the truth no matter the cost, and I have put myself up in order to expose this nonsense. I urge any of you who have been unable to do so to come out to the public and tell your story, write me at scottmo7776@yahoo.com and I will tell you how to get in touch with the reporter doing a series of investigative reporting features on the Cult. I understand it's hard to do it. I don't think I will be able to be employed where I live after the story, and I happen to be incorporating a theatre company now, and I think my funding will be made more difficult(if not impossible) by this. I came across some Larouchies a few weeks ago and it strengthened my resolve--I asked Rob, a young guy who had just been moved to Baltimore when I left, about what happened to Jeremiah Duggan, and he ranted to me how the Tavistock Institute had made him "unable to deal with reality"....though it seems like a few weeks ago the whole thing had been described as a "hoax" by Larouche himself. Please--if you have any intimate knowledge of the group and can help to bring them down, don't be afraid, I'm sure Rob had a future before the cult caught him, and if we were more vigilant and open as a society, this organization would have been obliterated years ago. Bella--I want to thank you for coming out and talking about Tom. "Bella" sent me an email assuring me that I was right about his family--Tom's mother is not a Larouche supporter and never has been, and furthermore, he has one good friend outside the "movement" and dated a woman outside the "movement" which confirms my belief that Tom maybe has been looking for options outside of his current imprisonment. I hope you find it Tom. Maybe you're this generation's Dennis King--write a book, Tom, write a book and get out, and warn the rest...do it for humanity Tom. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
Hi Scott, Glad to hear from you again. I e-mailed you before from my personal yahoo e-mail (m*****_****). Tom has gone AWOL it seems. The org is taking the "do not respond" approach to this forum. About the org, the yoot movement was launched as a last ditch effort to save the printing company WorldCom. ken kronberg..who runs the printing company..took out loans and expanded the printing co. in order to get more business. it was an old org trick...get people to contribute money...and use that money to start a business (printing, real estate, etc.) ...and use people who joined to movement to work in the businesses for nearly free. the business plan didn't go, and the org started having major financial problems...at least more major than before. eir stopped being mailed out, and eiw was started to convert eir subscribers over to eiw...since the org could no longer afford to mail out eir. however, worldcom must be saved at any cost..which is why members' stipends were cannibalized to start up the yoot movement. lhl needed people to go out and get money for the org (especially worldcom), primarily by selling eir, and pamphlets. if you want to take down the org, you must take down the printing company - worldcom. worldcom does do normal jobs for other businesses, anbd the profit from this helps to subsidize the org significant. the best way to alert all of worldcom's ordinary clients that the profit worldcom gets from them is being used to run a criminal cult. once worldcom starts losing its clients, the org will die a natural death as a result of its debts, etc. worldcom is quite well-known the the VA-DC area. the connection between worldcom and the cult must be made clear to worldcom's client base. i was in the org and talked with people at a level higher up than tom.....lhl is desperate to save worldcom...this is where all the pamphlets, etc. comes from....and the yoots (i.e. lhl) need the pamplets, eir, etc. to go out and sell. without the lit. they will have nothing to sell...and won't be able to raise any money. the org can't afford to have a third-party printer do their printing for them. this is how you take down lhl...by taking away worldcom's clients...make sure you tell this to that reporter....and make sure that reporter makes it clear why no one should do any business with worldcom. the ball is in your court scott..do it for the sake of those youths. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.7) |
Hello Anon192 - do you actually mean World Press, located in Alexandria? And I haven't found an Internet site for them yet. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
hi, maybe the name has changed. i know for a fact that when the old timers want to interview people in the imf, world bank , etc...they don't introduce themselves as being from eir...they call up and say that they are from strategic alert, etc. the name is/was "worldcom"...though i wouldn't be surprised that when they go out to get printing jobs, they use some other front name, and then send that job to worldcom. there is no inet site for worldcom...at least not while i was in the org. worldcom is the only operation that is/was profitable in the lhl org. it has helped them thru a lot of hard times. take worldcom's clients away, and the yoot movement will die. they are having problems paying out that lousy $50 a week as it is. the printing press is located in leesburg. one way to track it down is to note the name of the contact person(s), rather than the actual company name itself...which could change. Ellie DeGroot runs the place - or so i hear. | ||
| Bella (64.12.116.66) |
Hi Scott: I thought about what you had to say to me. Surely, you would find it challenging to understand Tom and how he is able to lead two lives. But he has done this (I believe) for most of his tenure with LaRouche. His former wife was not a member and they were married for quite some time and I don't believe his marriage ended because of LaRouche at all. May be it was his way of saying to the world that by his example....the things being said about what went on in the movement just were not true. And I can tell you in all honesty....if his personality hadn't changed so drastically....I would have stayed and allowed him to continue with his cause without much adue from me. I'm just a very non judgmental person who feels that this is America...we are all entitled to our beliefs....no matter how strange they be....so long as it doesn't put others in harms' way. I'm not sure what his function was/is within the movement, but make no mistake that he was someone that LaRouche called on at times and that his name would be known within the organization. Tom....I hope you came to this message board looking for a way out. Maybe seeing me here will help you realize that things do happen for a reason. And that these stories being told are not lies from bad soldiers who just weren't strong enough to fight for the cause. And the only conspiracy here is the one that LaRouche perpetuates. Please write that book and tell your story and help save a life. You have been blessed with many gifts and talents and this would surely be the best gift you could ever give back to humanity. And I promise you that when the bricks start tumbling down in your house as you make your way to a new life....that you will have the support and encouragement that you need to make it to the end of your journey. I care about life and I care about yours. And always will. | ||
| Anonymous (213.23.209.106) |
Have you noticed that The Wrath of Con (64.12.116.66) Jung for Bitter Yutes (64.12.116.66) Unanimous (64.12.116.66) Ann Coulter (64.12.116.66) AND Bella (64.12.116.66) are all the same person? You better check the earlier post of certain person, before you believe them story. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
Like I said before, they'll say and do anything to suck people in. They believe that the ends justify the means. Why do you think Visitor wanted us to e-mail them? Because in public, others will scrutinise what they're saying and call them on it. In private, they have a better chance of pushing the individual's buttons and creating a unique psychological profile to be worked on. As part of a group, there's too many dynamics involved and they can't keep control of it or manipulate us as easily. They've got files on everyone who posts here. I'd be ashamed if mine wasn't in at least its second edition. I'm a long-time adversary. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Good observation, 213. No one here should be disclosing their identity to anyone. I thought it a tad fishy that someone's lost love should just happen to be the very same as an obscure LCM poster (John Covici) on an obscure message board as this ... but then, odder things are known to happen, such as getting people to believe that a convicted felon and candidate for the glue factory could become president of the United States. | ||
| Bella (205.188.117.20) |
There certainly may be some on this post who aren't who they propose to be. That being said, please believe me that I am not one of those. My heart aches for all of you who have been inside of the movement and are now trying to make new lives for yourselves. I came here looking for information to help me understand better a situation I was in so that I could move on. But in the meantime, I gave thought to the fact that this person "Tom" might really be the person I knew. It sounded so much like his writing style. And there were other clues along the way. I was as amazed as the next person. I decided to post after long thought. But I had nothing to lose. Nada. I could see nothing but possibly good coming from my postings. There are good, kind, compassionate and loving people running still around on this earth. We are not perfect. But we are real. And I am one of them. And while I haven't suffered your pain, I have had my own. And plenty of it. I choose to trust Scott is the person he says he is. That he has stepped up to the plate and put himself at risk to try and end this reign of terror. I have offered Scott my help if he needs it and my encouragement. I don't know whether he has chosen to do this alone, but I hope some or all of you who are survivors will at least offer him your encouragement too. | ||
| Bella (205.188.117.20) |
P.S. I am curious myself as to why those numbers are all the same where the username appears. I'll admit that I was not that observant. I do not know anyone in the movement personally, except for "Tom." I don't believe it would jeopardize anyone's identity for me to say that the person I am referring to is NOT the name one of the Anon's mentioned. Maybe this is one of those little tidbits to stir the pot.....so to speak. I'm not sure I buy into the way the information was put before whoever said it. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.47) |
One thing everyone should keep in mind is that AOL users are assigned the IP of the moment. The consequence is that they may appear to be someone else. I have banned specific AOL IPs from my site, only to find out that someone who is not a problem has been assigned that IP. Every one of the IPs Bella has posted under is from AOL. Therefore it is a bit of a stretch to assume that Bella is the person who previously posted under that IP as alleged by Anon213. I would give her the benefit of the doubt in any case. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.47) |
For Anon192, the company is World Comp, and there are 2 sites, one of which is PMR-Printing. I looked up the FEC records, and there is World Comp, getting paid for a variety of Larouche activities. If there is one thing I have observed, it is that the Larouche organization practices incest. Not all that surprising, but I suspect that is what is keeping it alive. Once Kerry gets the official nod as the DNC standard bearer LHL will no longer get matching funds. I wonder how long he can stay in business after that if the finances are as bad off as alleged earlier. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Hi Kheris, thanks for the info.... the site is http://www.pmr-printing.com. at the site...there is this ad bit called "pmr's secret"... ~~~ PMR’s secret is aggressive problem-solving. Some firms do one or two things well, but they get into trouble as soon as a client asks them for something a little out of the ordinary. PMR has found that the best way to grow our business is to seek out challenges from our clients, and then to develop the skills, add the equipment, or expand the capabilities that are needed to meet that challenge. In other words, we try to figure out where our clients want us to be two or three years down the road. For instance, we realized that many of our clients wanted to keep their work under one, full-service roof. So, we built a high-tech mail shop capable of meeting the latest automation-compatible requirements of the U.S. Postal Service. PMR is now one of the premier mailers and shippers in the Dulles corridor. Design, data conversion, composition, and programming are provided by our in-house graphic arts complex, WorldComp—World Composition Services, one of the nation’s leading typesetters. This corporate philosophy has allowed PMR to become one of the few actually “full-service” firms in the region. We can, for instance, take a client’s database, convert it to directory or catalog files, design the text, compose the pages, print it, bind it, and simultaneously post the info to a website. We can insert the printed piece in an envelope with other materials, inkjet the address, and mail it; we also provide international delivery services. All under one roof. Some examples of PMR's problem-solving are shown on the various "Resources" pages in this site. ~~~ but we all know...pmr's real secret is that is it a cult. the other is..http://www.world-comp.com/ ~~~ to scott, tell your reporter friend that, to bring down lhl...organise a boycott of world comp and pmr. | ||
| borisbad (138.89.178.180) |
I have only recently come across this site after learning of it from another former member. Like him I left over ten years ago so I don't keep up with all the latest developments. I do remember back when LaRouche had an earlier youth movement, back then it was the Revolutionary Youth Movement, which sounded like the SDS RYM. It started recruiting heavily from some gangs of the day. LaRouche said that he would make RYM the biggest "gang" in the country. Very grandiose, but the thing fell apart when some of the youth leaders of the day dropped out. I remember one member getting busted for guns in New York. And there were some brush ups with the Communist Party which was also trying to do some youth recruiting. While I remember how awful things were living in the LC on its "stipend" while knowing that LaRouche lived in luxury, first on Sutton Place in Manhattan and then his posh digs in Loudon County, VA, the first place I believe he rented from one of the famous Russian ballet dancers who had emigrated here. Fortunately, I learned a few skills with their printing company that enabled me to get work on the outside after I left. It's really interesting to read Scott and Bella's posts to see what the latest developments are. I am sure LaRouche will continue to recruit his new members while the older ones burn out or fade away. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Basically, what is going on in the org today is that most of the boomers are being replaced with cheap labor (i.e. the yoots). Fearless Leader is merely repeating what he did last time...replace the current used-up crop with fresh warm bodies. the boomers of the org today are up to their noses in debt (i.e. can't take on any more new debt to give to lhl and his housewife). furthermore, every now and then, a boomer here or there will get sick and might expect the org to help pay the medical bills. ...and though they forego having kids in order to devote themselves to the cult, but with increasing age, they can't stay awake and serve the german housewife for 18 hours anymore. so the plan is to get rid of all unnecessary fat - i.e. most of the boomers - a few will be kept in the stables - such as steinberg, spannaus, etc. the rest will have a big sales quota on their heads, and their stipends cut if they - naturally - don't meet their quotas. without stipends, they'll be forced to leave the org and get a job as a substitute teacher or do real estate sales. lhl got rid of people of his own generation and replaced them with the boomers in the early days...today...it is the boomers' turn. the boomers got fat, so they are being replace with yoots who could sleep four in a room, etc...and just eat bread and drink pipe water. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
Anon192 How does this apply to boomers like Harley and Phil and R. Beltran? | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
lhl needs to hold on to a handful... phil and harley prey on the yoot. bruce d. does that silly riemann series..not that riemann is silly, but merely bruce d. the steinbergs do "counter-intelligence" i.e. they play about with lar's US contacts. rachel douglas - her brother is in jail for dope dealing - is needed for her russian language skills. allen douglas - used to cheat on rachel - controls the aussies. kathy wolfe - has some computer job, debt problems, dumped her previous husband for lonnie - works the japanese and koreans. lonnie wolfe - fantasizes himself as a "security man" - despite the fact that he is balding and is a small-sized man. ken and molly kronberg - runs fidelio and the printing company - from what i heard - has a son named max that they keep out of the org. - while that work for an org. that grabs other people's sons and daughters. effie degroot - needed to work the printing company. barbara boyd - old washed-up blonde - does paperwork in the national offcie. her husband - zeke boyd - former black militant -drives a cab. dennis and gretchen small - works the latinos and latinas. dennis speed - runs baltimore office - would lose his temper whenever not eough $$$ comes in... lynn speed - dennis' wife - from what i heard, used to get slap around whenever she didn't bring home enough $$$ for the man. william jones - works the D.C. office - covers press conferences - a black man - tried to get upclose and personal with colin powell. richard freeman - do a lot of statistics - but will only publish those that show lhl to be "right" and cover up the stats that show lhl to be off-tangent - works as a substitute teacher. mike billington - used to be top swindler (i.e. fundraiser) in the org...today...largely ignored...even though he went to jail for over 10 years...has debt problems...lives off the wife's rich father. currently, works the filipinos - tried to pass himself off as some chinese/asian scholar, but no one took him seriously, at least not for long....on his way to being another zeke boyd. gail billington - mike's wife - her previous husband cheated on her - after her divorce, she married mike, but mike turned out to be the short-fused sort...her life is a big waste...used to go to boarding school in europe..today...no kids, never will have kids...a wasted life. i could go on and on...but in conclusion, lhl needs around 50 of these boomers...to service Hausfrau Helga and other tasks. the rest...can go get a job. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Whatever happened to Carol White? Interesting that the surviving "boomers" are the ones never noted for high intelligence. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
someone told me carol is now selling real estate... | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Good for them, a picture of a happy, fulfilled life after a lifetime of nonsense: http://www.chrisandcarolwhite.com/ | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
i read the chris and carol bio at their website..no mention of lhl...i guess it's either not important...or they are too ashamed. anyway...i wonder if people who go to them for real estate advice knows that they used to belong to an org that ran financial scams.... | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.36) |
How does this apply to boomers like Harley and Phil and R. Beltran? phil and harley prey on the yoot. the rest...can go get a job Your listing left out Beltran, who is a 'boomer', and was at a fan convention this past May in London. He said he was bored, and mentioned some things he wanted to do. He was running the drama workshops as recently as Mother's Day. Is this his function then for the LYM? As a sidekick to Harley and Phil? | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
Is Beltran there to make money or to bring more suckers in? | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
i suspect beltran is someone who has been disillusioned by "hollywood"...the interviews he gave to the org points to this....and the larouche cult is very adept at feeding on the disillusionment, as well as the sincere hopes of others. lhl scamed beltran with the truman story, and the generation gap story, and now beltran thinks he finally has modern american history - as well as the cause of all the world's problems today - figured out...thanks to lhl - the world's one and only non-solution. lhl is very good at making up simple explanations to help make complicated things line up neatly...the only problem is that every now and then some new explanation will come along - but this doens't mean that lhl was wrong - it just means that lhl was hypothezing the higher hypotheses, the org is using beltran to sucker in more youth...the idea of having a well-known actor give you acting classes is too good a pull. the org has used this trick before...get to know some well-known singer, musician or actor, get some rapport going with them, by having "intellectual" discussions with them about how bad movies or music or broadway is today...then the target will think that they have found someone who understands them, their problems, share their hopes and dreams, etc. then comes the ego stroking - you get an invitation to perform at a conference or something like that. finally, comes the "lyn is the only solution" line, with some explanation on how lyn is so clever that everybody just slanders him as a fascist and everyone who has left him - chris and carol white for example - are agents - real estate or otherwise. then, the org starts asking for money...which is what it was all about to begin with. it happened to william warfield...and now that warfield is dead...beltran is next in line. | ||
| Sean Astin (64.12.117.20) |
To find the real truth as to why Kheris heaps so much scorn on LaRouche, visit her website where you can find poetry, reviews, daydreams, journals and psychotic ramblings all centered around Mr. Robert Beltran –-the man who in no uncertain terms, told her that she was one fan he could do without. You know what they say about a woman scorned…. As for why Kheris is so obsessed with the Jeremy Duggan incident, perhaps it is because her own psychologically warped, fellow-Beltran obsessor is known to be unstable and is probably suicidal. Perhaps Kheris is looking to blame Harley Schlanger, Lyndon LaRouche and Robert Beltran in advance of the day when this Beltran-spurned woman literally goes over the edge. In her delusions of Sherlock Holmesian grandeur, Kheris thinks subsequent investigation by Interpol will shut down the entire LaRouche organization and throw the evil triad of Schlanger, LaRouche and Beltran into prison, for which she’ll take sole credit. And that will be more important to her, than the pathetic death of her pathetic “friend”. Don’t be fooled by this anti-LaRouchie, the truth is just beneath the surface of some really bad poetry that you can see on her site… The kind of poetry that would drive 10,000 Jeremy Duggans to suicide. Come to think of it, we might have a criminal case against Kheris in a few years. A’ gushi moiya (do You hear me?) A’ gushi moiya (are You there?) … Where is a kind Spirit Who will guide me? Where is a kind Spirit Who will hold me? A’ gushi moiya (do You hear me?) A’ gushi moiya (are You there?) http://kheris.net/creative_moments.htm | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Hi Sean, Glad to see that LaRouchies still come here... After Tom (and his 'axioms') were defeated, I was beginning to worry that no LaRused yoot would come here anymore. Perhaps you can take Tom's place and give us a better fight... About poetry...here is Lyn's attempt... ~~~ One day where the children played There came a smiling man from a dead planet. He stood as if to show he knew The way of children and a stranger. Soon, more curious than startled, the children shuffled; Eyeing the figure that seemed not to menace after all. 'He is this,' one said. 'Or perhaps that,' another suggested. One child looked directly at the man. The stranger's eyes smiled, his mouth unchanged. In time, the boldest spoke. The stranger nodded. Another tried. 'He does not speak our language,' one proposed After the failure of several efforts to prompt Conversation from the visitor. 'He knows,' another corrected. 'See his eyes.' 'He understands?' another asked. 'You understand?' he said to the stranger. The man's expression didn't change, they swore later. But all the same they know he understood. They were pleased, so pleased. They turned from the visitor for a moment, To share their opinion. When they glanced back, He was gone. They never saw him again. But they know that something important and good Had happened for him? and for themselves. (http://www.ex-iwp.org/docs/1975/Critical%20Practice.htm) ~~~ As you can see Sean, we all have our "creative moments"...including the old geezer. With Lyn's kind of poetry, no wonder so many people dropped out and became FBI agents. Lyn is not obsessed with star trek...merely with his own opinions of himself. Come to think of it...how did Lyn ever know so much about masturbation ??? | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
why don't i summarize it for you sean.... ~~~ from kheris... do You hear me? are You there? from lyn... He is this, Or perhaps that, He understands, You understand? ~~~ ...in your face sean, now take your best shot back at me... | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
"chris and carol white for example - are agents - real estate or otherwise" LOL ... that's too good; imagine what a great standup routine you could build around life in the NCLC; true gallows humor ... * Sean evidently fears his own emotions, because if he were honest with himself he would know (1) what a mess he is in and (2) what a coward he is for not trying to express himself in verse, thus necessitating he lash out at others striving to learn to be true to themselves as individuals rather than as cut-out street vendors and boiler-room operators who, after fourteen-hour days, can look forward to nervously embedding a cardboard hexagon in a sphere while his life crumbles around him. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.21) |
Hello Sean I heard you were a closet Larouchie. Perhaps you are after all. Hyperbole seems to be a trait that marks them (especially LHL) and you certainly demonstrate skill at it. Pay enough dues and you could be promoted from gopher to speechwriter. I have no illusions about RB and his association with Larouche, or the probability that the LYM will come down before LHL finally moves on to The Podium in the Sky. Although I certainly would be happy to facilitate the breakup of the LYM. Having been on the receiving end of LYM recruiting (I think that is what it was) I now have a pretty thorough education in their thought processes. Let's see what the investigative reporter comes up with first. And in case you hadn't heard Interpol is not chasing the Duggan case. However, the Children of Satan III pamphlet (sample above) will set us all straight about that case. Of course fact checking is not a strong suit of the Larouchies either. | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
There used to be a Yute forum called The Academy 2004. I had a great run on there and fielded a lot of great emails from yute who had no idea of what the real history of the org was. Even the moderator encouraged the fray to continue. But, one day, the site closed down. My very last post was an attempt at artistic license based on both my experiences in the group, and looking at a huge sign a yute was holding in an EIR picture with the word "Laroucheyouth". AT 3 AM, my eyes noticed some thing peculiar. Here is the last post on the old LYM web site: ************************************************* "I would like to comment on the evolution debate in the Larouche Youth forum on Abiotic vs Biotic vs Psyhotic evolution. You start off young and strong.----------YOUTH! You think you are growing. ---- Larouche YOUTH! The process begins. ---------- LAROUCHEYOUTH! But something happens. ------- LAROUCHEyouth! Your identity is gone. Finally, you have evolved. --------- LAROUCHEY! And the process is complete. Something happens, your hurt ------lar OUCH ey! by the abuse. You wake up screaming, ------------ larouc HEY! no more, no more! Finally, surgery is complete --------- ----U---- and all that is left is: And U will go on to do many wonderful, creative and happy things, because U have evolved from the muck. To be continued..... "Beyond Psychos, the Analysis" is coming soon" Your obedient servant XLCR ************************************************* I added a few words, never had a chance to resubmit the new version. But, I now understand why many things are often personal and based on what you have gone through. So, I no longer think I am superior to what people write, draw or sing, since it comes from the heart. In the group, we were reminded in so many ways that ONLY LHL knows what is best and knows all of the secrets. So enjoy the secrets you will find here and in many other places about what the Bizarro world has awaiting for you. As I often remind the Yutes of today. Experience is what you have left, after everything else was taken away. LHL and co know how to take it away. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
sean, where are you ??? we need more poetry... are you afraid to post again ??? didn't harley teach you to be fearless ??? He is this, Or perhaps that, He understands, You understand? Do you Sean ??? | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Lyn, bravo! You are beyond psychoanalysis! We knew it all along, kid. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Q: How many LaRouchites does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Three. One to recruit it, one to brief it, and one to screw it up. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.21) |
Xlcr - that item on evolution is priceless. Too bad the Academy forum is closed. And I notice the Larouchies are not spending much time here either. They remind me of children who take their toys and go home in a snit because they are sure the other guy isn't playing fair (i.e. letting them win). Anon192 - I think Sean is busy in the mailroom. Besides, s/he told me what was what, so s/he picked up the toys and went home. | ||
| Bella (66.12.230.122) |
I surely came to the right place....looking for information. But I am not an insider like most of you....and sometimes it is challenging to even to keep up with who the good guys are and who the bad guys are! Sorry that "Tom" has never appeared on this post again. It leads me to believe that he may very well have been the person I knew and he is so angry with me and probably what I said....that he may never come back on here again. NTL...I was wondering if anyone had given any thought to what is going to happen to all these people when there is no more LaRouche. And once I asked "Tom" if he knew what Plan B was? or who would take LaRouche's place when he died? It was the only time he was stumped for an answer. He said that only Mr. LaRouche knows the answer to that. Do you think they are just going to fall back into the mainstream of society with little adjustment? I guess we need to not forget about those who will not be able to make their way again. And what we might be able to do to help. Alot of good programs are conducted without professionals on board. I have known many who have been helped in these programs, i.e., Delancey Street and the Depressive/Manic Depressive Society just to name two. Could any of you tell me if LaRouche has more than the printing/graphics business to live off of? And if WorldSavings has anything to do with LaRouche. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
LOL Sean. Good one. You're a real chip off the block. Send us to Kheris's site so we can see what her and her friends are like. What do we find when we get there? That she's a well-balanced, well-rounded person enjoying life and exploring her creativity and issues. Guess that makes your evaluation of her and her poetry sort of, a lie. We know exactly what sort of credibility to give to your opinions. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
there is no Plan B. those in the movement who tried to bring up Plan B with LHL got kicked out - mel klenetsky for example. LHL absolutely forbids Plan B, because to even consider plan b is to implicitly say that lhl is not that essential to the human species after all - now you know why mel got kicked out. the youth movement will die when lhl dies...the boomers never wanted the youth movement...because tom's lousy $50 a week + rent + utilities is coming out of the boomers' account..except for hausfrau helga...she has a retirement package and a nice piece of real estate in germany..no worries there. when lhl dies...the youths will be parceled out like cattle among the remaining locals- some will go to this region, others will go to that region, and be used and withered away...except for a few cute young girls in the youth movement...for some reason their stipends will always come on time. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
Q. How many LaRouchies can you fit into a Volkswagen? A. None...hausfrau helga's shopping bags took up all the space. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.194.17) |
What scares me is comparing what I know now (i.e., that LaRouche is 110% fraud, intellectually and otherwise) with what I "knew" then (i.e., that LaRouche is the greatest mind since Leibniz and present-day savior of the world). It scares me because I fear there is no way of communicating reality to those trapped in the cult of LHL. I had to "hit bottom" with LaRouche before I could even begin to steer clear of the wreckage my life had become; unfortunately, this appears to be the only way out of a cult - just to be honest with yourself about the desperation of your own personal situation and to walk into a counseling center or police station and ask for help out. The small stipends otherwise guarantee you will not be able to move away, and the fourteen-hour days + classes take your eyes off the bouncing ball of your pulverized life and ambition. And let's keep the jokes coming! The devil cannot bear being ridiculed. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Q: Why do Lyn and Helga enjoy walking over other people? A: Because they have beautiful soles. * Q: Why does Lyn hate Cheney? A: Because Lyn never liked bush. * Q: Why does Lyn hate Kissinger? A: Because Kissinger doesn't have to worry about money. * Q: Why does Lyn hate everyone? A: Because he's beyond psychoanalysis. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
Q: What did Hausfrau Helga say when she lost her pony? A: Lyn was right, the world really is coming to an end. ~~~ Q: How did Lyn explain Hausfrau Helga's spending habits to the org. A: The financial system is doomed, money is not worth anything, so spending other people's money is sublime. ~~~ Q. What did Hausfrau Helga find out about Lyn on their wedding night? A. Lyn can't perform without an audience. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
I think Lyn's shift from "Marxist" to "Democrat" was finalized when he ditched the bow tie for a cravat. | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
Anon 66 wrote: "I think Lyn's shift from "Marxist" to "Democrat" was finalized when he ditched the bow tie for a cravat." I think the shift took place when all that could be taken (money, bodies, trust funds) from the Marxists was taken. Always remember that LHL sets his sails to where the money is. We would print gibberish praising tin pot dictators if we thought that we could snag an EIR special project. If you study the grazing methods you will see that after you slash and burn one group like science or anti drug supporters, you move on to the next group. That is how we ended up with various kooks on the right and left. It is also how LHL got bamboozeled by con men who knew how to let him hear what he wanted to hear. With the Iraq war, the new grazing and foraging is among Muslim and Arabic names if you see FEC lists. As far as a successor. LHL with his genetics will outlive all of the older members through the horrendous stress he caused them. Helga will be the heir apparent. As one wise wag told me many years ago: "The US org has never figured out that they are merely the fundraising arm of the Germans". On a related note about humor. There was a young woman who was horribly abused in the West Coast. She had an idea of being a stand up comic. I suggested that she do a Jeff Foxworthy style routine and set up a card table shrine on a stage and call the show' *********YOU MIGHT BE IN A CULT IF*********** -The leaders demand that you sell books and magazines about him, but never lets you read them first. -The only people who have suffered an economic collapse are his supporters. -His greatest economic theory, Debt Moratorium, became a reality when they borrowed 30 million from their supporters, and never paid it back. -When you see men beating their wives, demanding they make money, throw a chair at them, and can't figure out whether you a are at a steering committee meeting or an MTV Rap video shoot. -If you see a young guy with a big phone bill, a big credit card bill, sleeping 4 to a room and he dropped out of college, that is a Larouchey. -If you see a young guy with a big phone bill, a big credit card bill, sleeping 2 to a room and he is in college for a degree, that is a college student who found a porno web site. -If the dogs of Helga are being flown across the Atlantic for $5,000 dollars, and you are getting 35 bucks a week in the LYM. -If the leader flies across the Atlantic on the Concorde for $8,000 a ticket, while poor Mike Billington is hustling a card table shrine at the JFK terminal for a 5 buck pay off at the end of the day. -When you ask the LYM leader about "those Cuban frogman assasins from 1974" and you get a quick change of subject. "When you notice that all of the authors of the stuff you are selling have left the group years and years ago. -When LHL proudly proclaims that he has exposed more KGB agents in the org than Moscow has on the payroll. -When a tired old dead ender tells you that the 20% undecided in the Democratic convention are secret LHL supporters. -When the tires on the death trap cars are the same as the head of the washed up old dead ender telling you about how "LHL will be in the White House or Humanity will not survive" you just might be in a cult. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
What is Hell? Being forced to live with the consequences of your actions in this world. I wouldn't wish LHL's afterlife on any man. If God is just, LHL will relive the pain he's caused for eternity. | ||
| borisbad (69.141.124.166) |
I look over at the Scientologist site on Factnet.org and think that LaRouche might be envious at how they can suck in even bigger names like Cruise and Travolta and run an even bigger brainwashing operation than LaRouche could conceive. It looks like the Scientologists get to even use 6 and 7 year olds to raise money and LaRouche only has the college kids. I think LaRouche's biggest mistake was trying to portray himself as a political leader. If he ran a religious cult it would have been much easier to get people to believe, since nothing has to be empirically verified, and contributions would really be tax deductible, unlike contributions to Fusion Energy Foundation and the other LaR fronts. And it also looks like the Scienies are better at suing those who criticize them publically than LaRouche has been with NBC, etc. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
sean...where are you...did we scare you? or did lyn's poetry finally did the trick. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
Hey Kheris, Checking out your website and you've got lots of LHL links because of Beltran. How about a link to this message board as well? Sean seems to be worried about you and your friends being unstable so let's give him a more balanced view of reality. | ||
| Kheris (67.248.115.181) |
For Anon198 - lots of LHL links is a subjective statement, and not necessarily accurate. At this page - http://www.kheris.net/robert_beltran_reconnaissance.htm - there are 4 Larouche related links. Three are to Larouche sites and 1 is to an essay I wrote. The three Larouche links should lead the searcher to specific activities that Beltran participated in. At this page - http://www.kheris.net/current_events.htm - there are three links involving Larouche. Two are to essays I wrote about Larouche, both footnoted to comments by Larouche himself. The third is an essay written by an Australian writer/journalist friend of mine that takes specific issue with H. Schlanger's discussion on culture from back in September 2001. When I consider the totality of what constitutes my site, Larouche is but one of several subjects that have my interest. Considering the hyperbolic description by Sean Astin of my site, one is left wondering as to who is really suffering from delusions. Putting up links to specific activities that RB has participated in provides opportunities for the listener/reader to reach their own conclusions about the relationship. Putting up a link to FACTNet itself has already occurred on my message board and there are posts here from visitors to said board. For Borisbad - Scientology took on the IRS and the IRS lost. The outcome was a court settlement that allows the costs of certain Scientology courses to be deducted from federal taxes as 'training'. There is now a lawsuit pending involving a Jewish couple regarding the deductibility of tuition for classes in a Hebrew school, and citing the Scientology agreement as precedential. This should be quite a fight since the original agreement was supposed to be secret. Whatever one thinks of the Scientologists, I would have to agree that they are far more effective than Larouche in getting legal support for their actions. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
I just found out that Beltran is Chakotay! Sounds like he's still milling around in the Delta Quadrant by supporting Fearless Leader. Perhaps the LC should borrow the Borg lexicon when recruiting the yoot: you will be assimilated - resistance is futile! | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
Below is an excerpt from LHL's self-opinion column on Reagan's passing... ~~~ This morning's press brought me stunning news: the death of U.S. President Ronald Reagan. Although we actually met on but one occasion, at Concord, New Hampshire, for a candidates' night, in January 1980, that meeting between us changed world history in ironical ways which are reverberating still today. ~~~ As you can see, all you have to do is have a little chat with LHL, and he'll think that your life was somehow blessed in a such a manner that, he "created" you.... | ||
| Gandolphs Granddaddy (205.188.117.20) |
Dear Kheris: For someone who complains so much about Lyn’s ego and his verbosity, no one seems to outdo him in those categories, except for you. After having visited your website, one realizes your message board is mostly you talking about YOU and expounding ad nauseum YOUR opinions. For instance, your creative explorations page is mainly about your “poetry”—at least that is what you have the gall to call it! Your campaign 2004 section is probably the only interesting thing on your website. I guess you haven’t found a way to center it around YOU just yet. And then of course there is your ongoing obsession with Robert Beltran. And now, I guess, a similar obsession with his brother Louie Cruz Beltran. Your hatred of LaRouche doesn’t seem to keep you from admiring one of his most well known supporters, Mr. Beltran. Does this mean that you like Mr. Beltran in spite of LaRouche? Or is it the Gene Roddenberry in both of them that you just can’t seem to do without? Which is it? Not that I would expect a logical explanation from a woman who is obsessed with the Lord of the Rings, sees Gene Roddenberry as a visionary, practices tarot, calls herself a witch, and is the author of the most incomprehensible “poetry” I’ve ever come across. Yes, I know that in your fantasy you think you are powerful enough to bring down the entire LaRouche organization by some black magic, hocus pocus. But, it seems your message board has only attracted a baker’s dozen of like-minded weirdoes since its inception. Maybe all 13 of you, if you hold hands in a circle, will be able to cast some evil spell on LaRouche. But more than likely, it will just be a dykes-gone-wild orgy of impotence. So while LaRouche is actually trying to be a positive force for good in the world, you are living in a fantasy devoid of reality, devoid of real spirituality, and with seemingly no reason at all for you to be taking up space on this earth. Maybe you and your “journalist” friend are waiting for the Mother Ship to pick you up and deliver you to a planet where you are worshipped in a manner worthy or your vain-glorious self. I can tell you that you will never find that planet, but let’s hope you find a padded cell where the rest of us can be protected from your ego and your poetry. Now you may order two or three of your minions to post a response on this board until you’ve come up with a half-assed retort. Beware Kheris, there is nothing I’d like more than to bring you down. On second thought, I won’t need to. You are already as low-down as they get. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Dear Gandolph, "For someone who complains so much about Lyn’s ego and his verbosity, no one seems to outdo him in those categories..." You showed some glimmer of hope here...a trace of realizing what we have been trying to tell you about Lyn's ego problems. ~~~ "And then of course there is your ongoing obsession with Robert Beltran." And also your ongoing obsession with Lyn being always right, or at least, the only, if not final, solution to humanity's problems. ~~~ "Yes, I know that in your fantasy you think you are powerful enough to bring down the entire LaRouche organization.." The LaRouche organization was destroyed a long time ago....which is the reason why your stipend barely feeds you....in our fantasies, we are just mopping up leftovers. ~~~ "Maybe all 13 of you, if you hold hands in a circle, will be able to cast some evil spell on LaRouche.." Actually, all we have to do is post messages to this forum. As you can see, our spell may not have reached the old geezer, but it sure got your attention long enough for you to post something....and 13 is more than the entire "intelligence" staff at the nat. office. ~~~ "dykes-gone-wild orgy of impotence..." Impotent? Coming from someone from an org that virtually bans couples having kids... ~~~~ "the author of the most incomprehensible 'poetry'" He is this, Or perhaps that, He understands, You understand? And guess which 'poet' wrote that? ~~~ "So while LaRouche is actually trying to be a positive force for good in the world..." who's watching star trek now ???? ~~~ "Now you may order two or three of your minions to post a response..." Remember this line the next time you get shipped from one local to another because some other local is short of money and made a request to the nat. office. to send over something to use. ~~~ "Beware Kheris, there is nothing I’d like more than to bring you down.." Don't make threats the yoot "movement" can't deliver boy. All you are permitted to do is shout into people's faces....you don't have permission from your superiors to innovate any tactics you like...the orders from the top are very clear....you come in for a bfg...then you go out and set up a table...shouting is permitted...and every now and then you go into a dem meeting or stand outside a lecture hall or walk into a cafetaria and shout some more...anything other than that..you ask for permission. ~~~ | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Granddaddy exhibits the hysterical "mother's fears" that LHL (latent homosexual LaRouche) always tosses back at people who object to one of his rackets on the grounds of conscience. And in true homosexual fashion, GG (i.e., Tom, Covici, whatever) continues to focus on a sensitive, creative woman whom he perceives perhaps vulnerable to a crude display of his dementia in order to intimidate her into silence and self-doubt. Sure, that'll work, Einstein. And it is the LaRouchites who are the haters: I hate the sin and not the sinner. I have made it very clear Lyn is a very sick individual; I don't hate him, merely rue the negative effect he has worked in the lives of so many intelligent, idealistic people who could have spent their time and talents in much more productive ways than drumming up dough in shady ways to keep LHL fueled with alcohol. But evidently this message board is having its effect if it can elicit the witches impinging upon Granddaddy's preconscious.  Maybe he's close to a breakthrough realization of how he is wasting his life. | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
So I guess that the answer to the question: "WHOSE YOUR DADDY!" Is answered the way I heard in meeting after meeting when I was in. "Lyn" You might be in a cult if...... xlcr4life | ||
| Kheris (67.248.115.7) |
Gandolphs Grandaddy- Most of what you posted is so Sean Astin. However; practices tarot, calls herself a witch Nice try, but I never call myself a witch because I do not practice any version of Wicca or its multitude of cousins. If I were to name a current spiritual guide, it would be Thomas Berry whose is a Catholic priest. The descriptions of the Major Arcana of the Tarot were written by a contributor. I am familiar with Tarot, but hardly a competent reader. there is your ongoing obsession with Robert Beltran. And now, I guess, a similar obsession with his brother Louie Cruz Beltran Robert hasn't done anything of note since The Big Knife, and I don't consider reviews obsessive. If that's your baseline then every reviewer on the face of the planet is obsessive. As for LCB, I haven't seen the man perform live in 2 years. Now if he releases another CD I'll have something listen to and talk about. devoid of real spirituality Care to define that one? Maybe you'd like to meet up at the Summer Institute at Holy Names College in Oakland at the end of July and take a look at what I call spirituality. Don't worry, no one will make you hug a tree. Apologies to the rest for the shameless plug. Beware Kheris, there is nothing I’d like more than to bring you down. On second thought, I won’t need to. You are already as low-down as they get. Make up your mind. If you want a piece of me, go ahead and try. That assumes you have permission from whomever is holding your leash. The truth is, if you really had a beef with me and a legal method for dealing with it, you wouldn't be expending your energy in a public display of the worst that we can expect of a Larouchie. Though I am sure Harley is impressed. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
I doubt Gandolph is getting any brownie points from Harley. He's too good at making the org look dumb. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Q: What did Phil and Harley say to Gandolph every morning after the am bfg... A: Now go out there and fetch, boy.... | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
What enrages GG and the rest of his cabal is that they cannot shut down this forum as easily as they did the "Academy 2004" site. Also, note how GG assumes people are given orders to post on this site: another reflection on the quality of his own impoverished existence and understanding of reality. You see, GG, we are FREE. We come and go as we please, we make more or less money as we wish, sleep as much as we need - yes, such a world exists ... O freie Luft, den Athem leicht zu heben! | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
GG thinks the world revolves around them. LHL is the sun and the planets are Harley and Beltran. That's all he can talk about so I don't think it's Kheris that's obsessed. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
So Harley is the U.S. heir apparent? Would he then inherit the Hausfrau, as Vivian Freyre got passed off to Nik when LHL was done with her? These potent people are shore mighty incestuous. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
harley is not the heir...i think it will be steinberg. so...first there was janice larouche, then carol larouche (who then became carol white), vivian freyre larouche (who then became nik's...), and now hausfrau helga. back when i was in the org, billington kept asking me...how many women have I recruited...over and over...now i know why women are so improtant to the org.... | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
the boomers in the org don't really like hausfrau..just like they didn't really want to waste money on a yoot "movement"... but you can't say anything unfriendly to that housewife...it could cost you dearly... so they put up with her antics....and swallow the fact that the US org is the fund raising arm for germans to live like they are in the renaissance. once old geezer is gone...hausfrau will find out just exactly how sublime the americans think she really is... | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
It's interesting that every posting by a LaRouchie contains the same thread, attacking the opponent based upon issues involving masturbation, homosexuality and/or lesbianism. Small wonder that this goes back to the days when LaRouche wrote The Sexual Impotence of the Puerto Rican Socialist Party and the Case of Ludwig Fueurbach, which I doubt most of the present members read. Interesting after looking thru Fuerbach, Larouche faintly praised Descartes when he completely attacks him now. And the whole analysis that the problems of the members were based upon "mother love" which was the origin of man's "bestiality" and sexual impotence. It was interesting seeing the postings on the ex-iwp website linked to above. I remember when LaRouche had the great insight that wearing any form of facial hair showed that the person involved was really identifying with his mother's pubic hair. This was part of the use of psychological degradation that started the NCLC on the long downhill road after things like MopUp. I don't understand what's so significant about Beltran. He was decent in Startrek Voyager, but let's face it, the Scientologists have Tom Cruise and John Travolta for star power. | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
Borisbad wrote: "I remember when LaRouche had the great insight that wearing any form of facial hair showed that the person involved was really identifying with his mother's pubic hair......I don't understand what's so significant about Beltran..." There are some very early pictures of LHL in his Marxist days wearing a full beard in the 60's. But you are correct, the whole charade is to wear down the person so that the only thing that is left is devotion to LHL. The only significance of Beltran is that we all know how the tragedy will end. He will end up over extended in debt financing some lunatic plan of the group, and end up bankrupt. He will isolate himself from his profession by denouncing everyone close to him as not caring about saving the human race. There are several very sad stories of people who came into the LHL inner circle as supporters and left years later MILLIONS in debt, left by their families and now struggling against depression and regret. Speaking of religion, there was quite a stir in the NYC National office when National leader Allen Salsibury in the 80's suggested that we start our own religion to solve the tax and wage problems. Considering how many times LHL writes about himself as the chosen one and how he is in the garden of Gethesmene, Laroucheology seems like a viable option for the remaining dead enders and yutes. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
i met allen salibury's wife not too long ago... she now works in the office at the nat. centre as an office lady..i.e. typing, data entry, filing documents, etc. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
I don't buy any of that LaRouche psychocrap, just use it for fun throwing it back in their hate-twisted, cleanshaven faces. Allen Salisbury's wife once suggested out of the blue that a group of younger members had rape fantasies about her. When I told her to stop projecting and she blushed _I_ was the one told by an NC member still in the org to stop psychologizing. Thus, my tactic ... | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
billington (yes...the 77-year jail sentence crook) remarked a few times - when we were together - how "pretty" or "beautiful" some of the yoots were...incidelty, he makes his wife takes exercise class to lose weight...i guess after all the sublime and platonic love in the movement...it still boils down to sex. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
about salisbury's wife...i saw her a couple of years ago....those "fantasies" must have been a very, very long time ago...cause nowadays...after all those years in the cult...it's hard to believe anyone would take a second look at her.... | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Even then, the thought was absurd, and was truly a case of projection. | ||
| Kheris (67.248.115.226) |
I went cruising the web looking for the upcoming Children of Satan III pamphlet and found two links. A release with a cover shot is here. A listing of Strategic Alerts is here. Select the most recent Strategic Alert to see the titles of the articles in the pamphlet including the 'Symons-Duggan Affair by Jeffrey Steinberg.' I wonder what the spin will finally look like. So aside from running through the streets of DC this week in search of a card table shrine, does anyone know how I can get a copy or when it might show up online? Anyon | ||
| Kheris (67.248.115.226) |
Ooops! The second link isn't working right. Try this one and select the English edition and then the Strategic Alert 25/2004. And I promise I tested this one. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
the fact that steinberg was ordered by lhl to invent a conspiracy to explain off the duggan case goes to show that, the original gameplan to play stupid when the few newspaper reports about the case came out in the european press, didn't work out too well. the frequent internet postings asking questions about duggan have gotten the youths in the lhl movement - if not asking questions - at least commenting about what they read. hence, steinberg - who is one of lhl's most capable lackeys - has to conduct an investigate on the orders of lhl, based on the premise that the investigation must conclude with a connection between duggan and some so-called 'synarchist' - thus proving once agian that lyn was right - as usual. it's a circular logic sort of thing - something like tom's silly axioms of posts past. | ||
| Kheris (67.248.115.216) |
Ah!!! My LYM connection came through. Did he know I was wanting the pamphlet? Here it is. I of course zipped right through to the Duggan case. This is just unbelievable except I have to remember who is writing this stuff. For reasons best known to the Larouchies (perhaps one will 'splain this to me) the information weaves the story of Jeremiah Duggan with activities in the Blair government. There is no indication of the connection, aside from perhaps the Baroness Symons. This is long, so apologies in advance. We all know how obsessive I can get. ;) My comments in italics Some highlights from the timeline: Early March, 2003: Jeremiah Duggan, a 22-year-old British student, meets LaRouche Youth Movement organizers in Paris at a book table, engages in a discussion, and takes some literature. Duggan is told about an international conference in Germany at the end of the month. He is particularly interested in LaRouche's strong opposition to the Cheney-Blair Iraq war and the imperial policies underlying that unjust invasion. Over the next several weeks, Duggan exchanges several email messages with LYM organizers, and arranges to travel to Germany for the conference. several weeks? Barely a month actually. March 27, 2003: Jeremiah Duggan, attending the Schiller Institute international conference and youth cadre school near Wiesbaden, Germany, is killed when he jumps in front of speeding cars on an autobahn. Wiesbaden police and prosecutors investigate the death, and conclude that Duggan committed suicide. Duggan had confided to his conference roommates, in his last days, that he was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, an illness that can induce schizophrenic behavior, including paranoia. He had begun to show signs of emotional stress during the day before his suicide, March 26, and had fled the apartment where he was staying, March 27, at approximately 3:30 in the morning. When LYM organizer called Jeremiah's girlfriend Maya Villanueva in Paris, shortly after Duggan left the apartment, to see whether she had heard from him, she cynically asked, "Is there a river nearby?" Subsequently, both Erica Duggan and Maya Villanueva have failed, notably, to mention Jeremiah's diagnosed illness, fuelling the media fraud about the role of the Schiller Institute in his death. Erica Duggan has acknowledged to reporters that she, her divorced husband, and Jeremiah, had undergone group counselling at the Tavistock Clinic when Jeremiah was approximately 7 years old. From The Guardian Article of July 2003: "Mrs Duggan and her husband, Hugo, travelled to Wiesbaden the next day, but felt the case was already closed. "They said he had psychological problems, because that is what Sebastian told them.” " I didn't find any other reference to the Tavistock Clinic anywhere, certainly not until this reference. Seems to me that given all the interest in Jeremy's state of mind the reporters would not have left out any hint that he was unbalanced. Interesting characterization of Maya's question as 'cynically.' July 12, 2003: The London-based Guardian newspaper publishes the first smear story linking Lyndon LaRouche and the Schiller Institute to the suicide-death of Jeremiah Duggan. The author of the story, Hugh Muir, has, in the past, written stories based on information provided by so-called "anti-cult" groups affiliated with the AFF. If it's a smear where are the lawyers? July 21, 2003: BBC airs a slander on LaRouche and the Duggan suicide by Tim Samuels, under the headline, "Mother calls for inquiry into son's death." Slander? Again, where are the lawyers? Nov. 5, 2003: Coroner's inquest into Jeremiah's death occurs at Hornsey Coroner's Court. Dr. William Dolman, HM Coroner for North London, presides over the inquest. The British media claims that Dr. Dolman has "rejected" the German authorities' view that the death was a suicide. Statements attributed to Dr. Dolman suggest that evidence was presented at the inquest by AFF circles, making wild charges that the LaRouche organization is a dangerous cult, etc. British media coverage of the inquest includes interviews with Dennis King and with Chip Berlet. (Berlet, former Washington, D.C. bureau chief of High Times magazine, the semi-official publication of the drug legalization lobby in the U.S.A., was a leader of the National Student Association during the late 1960s, when it was exposed for having received CIA financing, in a Ramparts magazine exposé.) "suggest that evidence was presented at the inquest by AFF circles" The vaunted Larouche Intel organization fails to confirm for a certainty? Boy are they slackers. Nov. 11, 2003: Wiesbadener Kurier publishes an article challenging the coverage in the British media, and defending the assessment of the Wiesbaden Prosecutor's Office that Duggan's death was the result of suicide. Chief Prosecutor Dieter Arlet complains that it is "completely inexplicable how such a characterization could get into the media." A spokesman for the Prosecutor's office reports that the German Federal Police (BKA) had found that the British coroner's inquest had been closed, and that the British media coverage had misrepresented the findings of Dr. Dolman. Arlet says that, based on the BKA inquiry, there are "no grounds for us to reopen the investigation." From the Daily Telegraph in September 2003: "German police files have exposed flaws in their own investigation into the mysterious death of a British student. Jeremiah Duggan, from Golders Green in north London, died last March in Wiesbaden after allegedly running into the path of two vehicles The Telegraph has obtained a copy of the German police's report into Mr Duggan's death. It reveals a number of errors, assumptions and contradictions that suggest an inadequate investigation into a suspicious death. It also shows that the police took no official signed statements from witnesses, failed to carry out an autopsy and decided within hours that Mr Duggan had committed suicide by throwing himself in front of the vehicles. The report gives only a cursory account of the version of events given to the police - one which conflicts with that given by Mr Duggan's family. Evidence from witnesses is recorded as brief, sometimes contradictory, notes." And the prosecutor doesn't see a problem with this? Or is he suggesting The Telegraph didn't have the documents it claims to have obtained? It can't be that hard to release the actual documents if the Telegraph's are fakes. Feb. 12, 2004: BBC News airs further slanderous coverage of the Duggan affair by Tim Samuels. Maybe Larouche doesn't have lawyers! May 20, 2004: Corriere della Sera Sunday magazine publishes a lengthy, vicious slander against LaRouche, centered around interviews with Erica and Hugo Duggan, by writer Agostino Gramigna. Maybe Larouche fired the lawyers when he lost against Chip Berlet. By the way I searched the Corriere's web site by author and otherwise. The article doesn't show, so at this point I am guessing that it is not online. The author search did bring up an article from 2001, which leads me to believe the online version is not carrying the referenced article. However if anyone can point me to it, please do. Lots of alleged slander and not a legal eagle in sight. This is a pathetic attempt to link the death of a student to unrelated activities in the Blair government in order to deflect critical questions as to what really happened in March 2003. It's not that surprising given the underlying history. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Hi, From the Satan III... ~~~ May 23, 2004: Members of the LaRouche Youth Movement, distributing an "Open Letter to the Washington Post" by Lyndon LaRouche, in front of the Washington Post building in downtown Washington, D.C., encounter Michael Winstead. Winstead had briefly infiltrated the Baltimore chapter of the LYM, only to abruptly leave the group, and circulate a series of slanders. Accompanied by a Washington Post photographer, Winstead boasts to LYM organizers that he is working for the Post on a forthcoming slander on LaRouche and LYM, which will also heavily feature the Duggan suicide. (When Winstead departed from Baltimore, he left behind a large collection of pornography, which he had downloaded from the Internet.) ~~~ Scott, your efforts are beginning to take effect. The org is now openly slandering you. They are even blaming you for the pornograpy collection Lyn accidently left behind, as well as using words like "infiltrated". Btw....infiltration is the sort of thing the lhl movement does very well. for example, gail billington was ordered to infiltrate mcgeorge bundy's office as a secretary, and kathy wolfe infiltrated drexel burnham lambert as a gold analyst. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When LYM organizer called Jeremiah's girlfriend Maya Villanueva in Paris, shortly after Duggan left the apartment, to see whether she had heard from him, she cynically asked, "Is there a river nearby?" Subsequently, both Erica Duggan and Maya Villanueva have failed, notably, to mention Jeremiah's diagnosed illness, fuelling the media fraud about the role of the Schiller Institute in his death. Erica Duggan has acknowledged to reporters that she, her divorced husband, and Jeremiah, had undergone group counselling at the Tavistock Clinic when Jeremiah was approximately 7 years old. ~~~ Seems that the org is going all out to slander Duggan, Duggan's girlfriend, and Duggan's mother. LHL is calling Duggan mentally unstable, his girlfriend as cynical, and his mother as an implicit liar. No wonder so many people call LaRouche a fascist... We all know the org's tactics to get a recruit. And the tactics get meaner if the person doesn't show any sign of "coming around". If Duggan had been unstable, as alleged by LHL, then the tactics of the org contributed to his death, by reason of irresponsibility on the part of the org. The fact that no one told the org about any alleged unstability does not excuse the fact that the org engages in pressure tactics, such as breaking up meetings, etc. which could lead to the injury of others - intentional or otherwise. By insisting that Duggan is mentally unstable - as the LaRouche cult is doing - and based on what we know about the cult's tactics - the cult has impliclty more or less explained what happened that night - the LaRouche cult got Duggan to attend an isolated camp - tried to recruit Duggan using pressure tactics - and when Duggan showed no sign of coming around - kept up the pressure with personal attacks (i.e. Lyn's mother's fears, etc.), and the pressure drove Duggan to his death. LaRouche is guilty. The pamphlet is a testament to the cynicism and the extent of implicit lying the LaRouche cult is willing to go. First, the cult tried to ignore what they triggered (i.e. Duggans' alleged suicide), now that the heat is on, they slander everyone without any consideration for anyone - except themselves. And worst of all, a major contributor to the satan III is barbara boyd... | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
According to a German press report...Duggan called - at 4.00 o'clock it in the morning - his friend Maya in Paris, and spoke of being in major difficulties. He also said to his mother in London on telephone that he was in big trouble and wants to get away. Hence, the need for LaRouche to slander Maya and the mother. Mrs. Ortrun Kramer was in the possession of the passport of the deceased, whereas Duggan's other personal articles were at the place he slept - the house of the Apels. Rainer Apel and Ortrun Kramer are long time German members of the LHL cult. How Ortrun Kramer ended up with Duggan's passport is not explained. Furthermore, Duggan's alleged suicide involved throwing himself in the path of a small car...questions were raised that if he was indeed suicidal, there were numerous other opportunities to do so, instead of waiting and running so far away till he reached the spot he died. ..unless of course he was being pursued...or as Lyn would like you to believe...tavistock programmed him to jump in front of a car. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Update of the old, "the devil made me do it": "the __________ (Fourth International, Rockefellers, British, Venetians, oligarchs, synarchists, etc.) made me do it" when it's all just Lyn: duper and duped, compulsive user and abuser of others, felon - and his ragamuffins: wife-beaters, tin-plate ragers, cases charity, mental, and otherwise - who do it. | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
Interesting parallels? I was doing a search and ran across an article about NXIVM or Executive Success which appears to be a Lifespring or EST type cult aimed at corporations. There was a story about a member, Kristin Snyder, from Alaska, who apparently committed suicide in circumstances quite similar to that of Jeremy Duggan. She previously had been a respected business person in the Anchorage area with an MBA, etc. She got involved in this cult and about four months later killed herself in a kayaking accident. I love what LaRouche had to say about the passing of Pres. Reagan. He spoke with him for about five minutes, and if I recall the key point of agreement was that they were both shilling for the NRA in their presentation. Of course, in LaRouche's mind, this meant he had a significant inroad into the future president's inner sanctorum. Speaking of New Hampshire, my recollection of the New Hampshire campaign in 1980 was that we made great efforts to bring senior citizens to campaign events based upon taking them by car and feeding them free food. (not that that was too different from what the other candidates did). We also tried to get many people to sign absentee ballots in advance "in order to prevent fraud" or perhaps people changing their minds after they "agree" to vote for us. | ||
| HM Locke (65.192.95.254) |
This is where anyone looking for Jeremiah Duggan clues should go. The Beyond psyche papers. A couple years ago the "movement" got really excited about "Beyond Psyche" and taught everyone how to f--- with people's minds. The method works. I've seen it. A shortcut to breaking people mentally, however, as we all have noted, the process is safely undertaken in the NCLC... These are the direct words of Lyn Marcus, aka Lyndon LaRoach. "The program is safely undertaken in the NCLC, where it could not be so with laymen, since the LCer has a self-conscious identity in the world, which the ordinary laymen lacks. Under some unfortunate circumstances, this experience, absolutely the most terrifying the human mind can know, can prompt suicides, or provide the impetus for psychotic collapse" Well I guess NCLC (National Committe of Labor Caucuses) needs to be updated to ICLC (International CLC)--Jeremiah safely undertook his Psychoanalysis in Germany | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
LaRouche's tactics are summarized below... MASS ORGANIZING TACTICS (excerpted from Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky, pp. 126-140;) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tactics mean doing what you can with what you have. Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. In the world of give and take, tactics is the art of how to take and how to give. Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves. For an elementary illustration of tactics, take parts of your face as the point of reference; your eyes, your ears, and your nose. First the eyes; if you have organized a vast, mass-based people's organization, you can parade it visibly before the enemy and openly show your power. Second the ears; if your organization is small in numbers, then...conceal the members in the dark but raise a din and clamor that will make the listener believe that your organization numbers many more than it does. Third, the nose; if your organization is too tiny even for noise, stink up the place. Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have. The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat. The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat. The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity. The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage. The sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic. The seventh rule is: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment... The eighth rule: Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose. The ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative... The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. you cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his sudden agreement with your demand and saying "You're right--we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us." The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that the organizer should always regard as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and "frozen." By this I mean that in a complex, interrelated, urban society, it becomes increasingly difficult to single out who is to blame for any particular evil. There is a constant, and somewhat legitimate, passing of the buck.... It should be borne in mind that the target is always trying to shift responsibility to get out of being the target.... One of the criteria in picking your target is the target's vulnerability--where do you have the power to start? Furthermore, the target can always say, "Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?" When you "freeze the target," you disregard these arguments and, for the moment, all others to blame. Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all of the "others" come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target. The other important point in the choosing of a target is that it must be a personification, not something general and abstract such as a community's segregated practices or a major corporation or City Hall. It is not possible to develop the necessary hostility against, say, City Hall, which after all is a concrete, physical, inanimate structure, or against a corporation, which has no soul or identity, or a public school administration, which again is an inanimate system. [He says your target should be a person in the organization you are opposing; a face within the opposition for you to focus on; it must be someone with power within the organization, like the CEO, school superintendent, governor, or something like that.] | ||
| Hemlock (65.192.95.254) |
That's not really a very good description, however I will relate a classic tale that describes it much better: In the time of Plato there were others who attempted to be of his ilk, but their greed and hnger for power led them to be much lesser men. One of these was Fulloshitteus Laroachicus, here is a dialogue copied down by a student, Brainwashtius Tomicus: "I am Fulloshitteus Laroachicus, and I am here to tell you that should you not sacrifice your cow to the gods next week the Universe will come crashing down on your head! Sacrifice that cow and leave it at my front gate, where my servants shall roast it (as according to the gods), and I and my family shall feast upon it to cleanse this village of its sin, and please the gods, Economicus Collapicus, and Universus Physicallus Principallus--these gods you do not understand, but luckily I, Fulloshitteus can explain these things to you in ways that will make you feed me as all village folk should. By the way, do you have any wine to sacrifice???? | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Hysterical! Reminds me of the two books that come closest for me to replicating the feel of "life" in the organization: George Orwell's _Animal Farm_ and Arthur Koestler's _Darkness at Noon_. Reread those if you want to feel gales of gratitude for being free. We are the ones who have truly been liberated from Plato's cave, from Pizzaro's prison, and we should exult in our freedom from that mind-numbing, spirit-stabbing poison we so foolishly thought Truth and Justice. I just could never listen to all the well-wishers who told me what a fool I was ... | ||
| Hemlock (65.192.95.254) |
hey anon send me an e-mail H_M_Locke@yahoo.com | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
Try watching Disney's "Something Wicked This Way Comes" or read Ray Bradbury's book. LHLs methods aren't original just sick. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
Debunking LaRouche Myths. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lyn likes to brag about how he "forecasted" the collapse of the Bretton Woods which happended in 1971. This is an outright lie by laRouche. The Bretton Woods system was in trouble right from its inception, and its demise anticipated as early as 1962. Read... The Monetary Sin of the West by Jacques Rueff. The edition i have was published in 1972, but it details the on-going discussions of the problems of Bretton Woods, starting from the 50s. Rueff was the French economics/financial minister in the 60s. Another LaRouche myth is that LaR made the connection between the creative human mind and economic wealth. This is also another lie. Read henry George's "Science of Political Economy" at http://www.henrygeorge.org/science/speindex.html This is a quote from chap. 1.. "Endowed with reason, and then deprived, or all but deprived, of instinct, man differs from other animals in being the producer. Like them, for instance, he requires food. But while the animals get their food by taking what they find, and are thus limited by what they find already in existence, man has a power of getting his food by bringing it into existence. And so it is with the fulfillment of all his wants; the satisfaction of all his desires. By the use of his animal powers, man can cover perhaps as much ground in a day as can a horse or a dog; he can cross perhaps about as wide a stream. But by virtue of the power that makes him the producer he is already spanning continents and oceans with a speed, a certainty and an ease that not even the birds of most powerful wing can rival. As this power, which we call reason, rises in man, nature withdraws the light of instinct and leaves him to his own devices -- to rise or fall, to soar above the brute or to sink lower. For as the Hebrew Scriptures have phrased it, his eyes are opened and before him are good and evil. The ability to fall, no less than the ability to rise -- the very failures and mistakes and perversities of man -- show his place and powers. There is among the brutes no drunkenness, no unnatural vice, no waste of effort in accomplishing injurious results, no wanton slaughter of their own kind, no want amid plenty. " this was published in the late 19th century btw. ...as you can see, LaRouche lifts other people's work and gives the credit to himself...just like a typical college student at the bottom of his class would do. in conclusion, lyn did not originate the connection between reason and economics, nor waqs he the first to "forecast" the demise of bretton woods, nor did he originate the idea of beam weapons to shoot at nuclear missiles. but lyn is very good at telling jokes...this i can confirm even after only attending 2 of his conferences. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
From the very beginning, what I found fishy in the LaRouche-eye view of history, was the sense I got that, for instance Ben Franklin was sending people out on deployments, Leibniz was buzzing around Europe "briefing" the various heads of his network, which one had the impression resembled the Labor Committees, that Plato's Academy was a cadre school, after which the ephebes would run out and organize down on the Piraeus as the ships came in (kind of like organizing at the JFK terminal), and so forth. Initially I resisted all the conspiracy crap too, but because my two heroes were Beethoven and Marx, and I thought here was an organization which represents those values, I eventually went along just to be able to fight for these values. As much as I have disparaged Lyn on this site, I must say (so perhaps I am still a tad brainwashed) that _Dialectical Economics_ is an absolutely brilliant (not necessarily true) book. If Lyn had stuck to the U.S. Labor Party and D.E. and the FEF, I would probably go back in and fight for all that. But now that for twenty-five years he wants to be some kind of Everyman to political wackos of all stripes, it just exposes him as a secular Elmer Gantry. It's a shame, because sometimes I muse starting an organization based on D.E. and reappropriating the name, U.S. Labor Party. But then I'd have to spend all my time disentangling myself from Lyn's antisemitism, etc. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
this is what fred newman (another cult leader...fred was running with lhl briefly in the early 70s) wrote about D.E. in the 70s. fred and lyn were both communists then...so expect a lot of marxist terminology.... i don't necessarily agree with fred, but it is interesting to note that even as early as 30 years ago...lhl's work was beign criticized as circular logic... lhl's true brilliance lies in conjuring up stories to make believe that he is brilliant...not in ideas. ~~~ Dialectical Economics is a tiresomely prolonged attack on reductionism and a defense of some of the worst features of Hegelianism which, among its many manifestations, spawned 19th and 20th century vitalism. The book is primarily about dia1ectics and the economics is sparse and repetitive though the insight (by no means original but nonetheless insightful vis-à-vis the fundamental antimony between real production and capitalist accumulation is of real value. Marcus-LaRouche’s economics without class struggle becomes apparent early in the book in a chapter appropriately enough entitled “What’ is Economics?” He correctly points out that all economic analysis draws a dualistic distinction between price and use value and that the difference between economic analyses lies in the differing answers, to the question “What is the relationship between price and use-value?” Marcus-LaRouche then sets up the pattern for the whole book by moving to a not so profound attack on the reductionistic approach of the econometricians—Von Neuman, Morgenstern, etc.—pointing out that they believe that there is a mathematically coherent relationship between price and use-va1ue. What Marcus-LaRouche doesn’t explain is the extent to which these bourgeois scientists determine use-value by employing price conceptions, thereby artificially resolving the fundamental antagonism between the two. This anti-scientific technique “works” (in a manner of speaking) for relatively short periods of time since t accurately mirrors bourgeois economic practice. Marcus-LaRouche locates the birth of industrial capitalism historically in the Spanish bankruptcy wherein the financing of the looting operation of the New world through the European banking houses vastly exceed the capacity of the borrowers to extract loot from the material resources (including the population) of the New World. Mercantilism—which Marcus correctly contends is not a form of capitalism—was able to deve1op real wealth (via direct looting) far faster than the feudal mode of production but not nearly so fast as the rate of debt of the Spanish monarchy in their financing the development of the looting operations. Mercantilism therefore served as a stimulus to the development of a new mode of production (industrial or real capitalism) which would be able “to keep up with” the accumulating paper build-up of mercantilism. In actuality, then, it, was mercantilism’s breakdown crisis via the unlimited run-away financing of the limited run-away looting operation which provided the historical economic and political context in which humanistic (progressive) development, i.e., capitalist development, took place. Mercantilism cleaned house by bankruptcy and thus “completed” the now famous boom-bust cycle which is the epiphenomenal essence of capitalism. Thus viewed, we see that capitalism emerged historically as the “solution” to a breakdown crisis and therefore we are better able to correctly identify the actual nature of capitalism’s antagonisms. Now Marcus’ “history” is enlightening and of value in understanding the development and the nature of capitalism. Yet it is “history” in the tradition of Hegel, not Marx. It provides a conceptually coherent accounting of capitalism’s genesis, not in terms of the sensuous historical struggles of class-in-conflict, but instead abstract elements of the rational analyses of Marx’s Capital and Luxemburg’s Accumulation (as well as some of Veblen’s writings) and, with these abstractions in hand, interpretively analyzes “what must have happened” and identifies the result as history. Not all interpretations are equally competent as any honest Freudian will tell you. LaRouche’s interpretive history is of real value in that he practices his Hegelianism well. But interpretive history cannot be confused with Marxist scientific history. Marcus-LaRouche argues that the advantage of his “historical” (what is actually metaphysical) approach is that it points the way to recognizing the “true” physical laws of nature (actually metaphysical) and, what is central to understanding these laws, the invariant of Progress. What LaRouche has in fact done in the best idealistic tradition of vicious circularity is to actually employ the conceptions he means to estab1ah in his interpretive Hegelian “history” and then employ the resulting “history’ to justify his “science.” He thus parallels the methodological errors of von Neumann and Morgenstern from the socialist side of the ledger. Marcus-LaRouche does not scientifically establish the invariance of Progress, he speculatively presumes it, turning vaguely to passages of Marx’s early writings to authorize his speculations and writes “history from the perspective of Progress and then employs his “history” to justify his “scientific” claim support of Progress. (http://www.ex-iwp.org/docs/1975/Witchdoctory.htm) | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
lyn actually owes a lot to hegel and kant...though nowadays he pretends to have "identified" kant's errors early in life...early in his life, lyn was worshipping even descartes... anyway, here i swhat happened to the first larouche youth movemnt...alos taken from the iwp site. ~~~ The RYM Fiasco Following on the heels of Mop-Up, NCLC plunged, into organizing ghetto youth, in an effort to build a quick mass movement to bolster its new-found “Left hegemony.” The Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM—not to be confused with the SDS factions by that name) organizing was foreshadowed by Marcus in his early April speech mandating Mop-Up. Typically presenting his tactical decision as a fait accompli, Marcus had used it (in “behavior-shaping” fashion) to squelch any squeamishness among the members about Operation Mop-up: “You think this CP stuff is scary, well, I’ll tell you something, that’s really gonna scare you. In a few, months we’re gonna have 10,000 enraged, ghetto youth, we’re gonna organize street gangs…” Soon a special corps of NCLC’ers, mostly black, was commissioned to begin organizing gang youth, striving to “ruthlessly” break through the “ghetto hustle,” converting ghetto youth from wanting to rip off the corner grocery store, e.g., to wanting to “take it all.” Marcus personally took this group of NCLC’ers under his wing, “steeling” them psychologically for the task ahead (i.e., turning them into blithering sycophants of Marcus). In his keynote speech at the May 25 NCLC national conference, Marcus declared that his ruthless method of ghetto organizing was going to succeed where other Left groups—the Young Lords, Workers League, etc.—had failed. With his characteristic hyperbole, he declared, “If we don’t succeed in this, we’ll have to find another planet.” But given the very weak roots NCLC had in the working class, the massive campaign to recruit ghetto youth—by cutting through their “pure rage,” and “organizing” that rage—was a hopeless adventure, smacking of New Left opportunism. Still, the bungling and disorganizing way the NCLC approached the ghetto indeed “outdid” the performance of the other groups. Thus today, large sections of the ghetto populations of New York and other cities are implacably hostile and cynical towards not only NCLC, but all communist organizing—an easy target for the CIA-type, counterinsurgent, social-control programs that NCLC claimed it was combatting. Despite grand pretenses of uplifting ghetto youth to become revolutionary intellectuals and part of the working class-for-itself, the RYM “organizing” that actually occurred was criminally degraded, propitiatory and parochial. The NCLC “RYM organizers” generally lumpenized themselves—to the point of donning leather jackets and talking in ghetto cadence—in order to approach gang youth, and organized the gangs as (‘red”) gangs. No serious efforts were made to integrate the youthful recruits with other NCLC members—to say nothing of the working class contacts around NCLC. The RYM organizers, far from confronting the “ghetto turf” mentality of the youths in a revolutionary way, dissolved themselves into it, and with disastrous results. When the inevitable frame-ups of RYM members came down late in 1973, NCLC responded sluggishly and incompetently, mobilizing a feeble and abortive defense effort—thus landing the framed-up RYM members in jail. Deep distrust towards their “Promethean” organizers began setting in among the few dozen RYM members.[24] Meanwhile the regular NCLC members, most of whose contact with the RYM cadres came only in defense training and ghetto rallies, began to look upon the RYM’ers as their military auxiliary—an attitude which the RYM members quickly began to sense. At a September 3 meeting of the New York NCLC membership, a RYM member, objecting that the constant ghetto rally mobilizations were pulling him out of school; bitterly complained, “RYM is the goons for the Labor Committee.” The upshot of the brewing NCLC-RYM antagonisms was that, in early 1974, several RYM members turned overtly against NCLC, attacking their offices, stealing and robbing money, etc. And, instead of critically examining the total failure of the RYM organizing, NCLC, which was by now well into its hysterical “mass brainwashing” phase, dismissed all the incidents as products of “CIA brainwashing.” ~~~ | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
In terms of the organization's shibboleths of the time, there is little for me to argue with: the Idea of Progress, field- versus particle- approach, revival of classical culture, a methodology which stressed return to original sources, and many other things. Unfortunately, simultaneous with this, in the same mind with the originator of this, was an emotionally twisted child who needed everyone around him to be with him 110%. I don't think even today Lyn understands life, which is an unending journey from the head to the heart. And there he is, all walled up in his own head, his emotions frozen into the single one of prideful hate, walled up in booze in sycophancy. Many of us I guess rushed to embrace the positive and didn't have the life skills or wisdom that the man as a whole was a train wreck ... which is why he sought out the 18-25 y.o. crowd - they didn't know how bizarre he was in comparison with his chronological peers. I still think if he were to publicly come clean on a lot of his s---, I'd start hanging around again, because there is no one organization that stands up today for progress in a coherent manner. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
Want to get some help understanding LHL and how to deal with him? Head over to http://www.bpdcentral.com | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
To anon 66, "there is no one organization that stands up today for progress in a coherent manner." the organization that you are referring to was destroyed a long time ago. the current "organization" may sometimes read like the old organization, but its purpose is no longer "progress". the current org is now the personal vehicle of Lyndon "MY IMMORTALITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR MONEY" LaRouche. it is no longer concerned with progress ...at least not in a rational sense. it is now merely a "LaRouche is the only solution to save humanity" loudspeaker...with some articles on progress thrown in to fill up the empty pages. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
I agree, anon 192, especially beginning with the "American System" stuff which was an irrational bud off the Marxist tree, which I now see in retrospect as a way of squeezing the Carto types for dough, just as the antisemitic crap was to further entice those nuts. I think Lyn was for real until Carol left him, then he went nuts and off on Rocky, then he became cynical and just decided in the end to play a game with the lives and destinies of people. One mistake we should never make is that by turning our back on the LC, we do not turn our back on Beethoven, Cantor, et al. - they are not the property of the ICLC. Even when in the organization, really exulting in the poet of freedom, Schiller I would feel like puking when that butterface Helga would get up and tearfully run on about beauty ... all the while - as someone remarked above and as I was also told at the time - the US org was getting up at 6AM so the EAP could get up at noon. This is perhaps the nuttiest idea I've had since I was in that organization: wouldn't it be something if a group of ex-LCers who are not implacably opposed to what they formerly espoused (such as exmembers who are NOT now Greenies, for example) could have a congress and sort out what from all that we could salvage and use as a basis for action, even present it to Lyn (who of course would reject it out of hand as a product of the enemy du jour, I guess now, the "syndicalists") - I mean, for such a supposed "genius" can't he get it through his fat head that there are many former members who believe in much of what he putatively represented? that we are not "agents", simply people monstrously abused and disappointed? that perhaps the best people he had are outside, and that those inside are the uncreative drones? that perhaps if anyone is an agent, it would be those around him at present when there's no longer any there there? ... Now I know I'm off my rocker ... but I just had to dream ... Lyn may be one of those I've observed so often in life who don't even know who his true friends are: Lyn, true friends are not yes men! Get with the program, you old ----. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
P.S. Fred Newman was a third-rate knockoff LaRouche, and could never come close to matching Lyn's intelligence, Marxist pedigree, or erudition. | ||
| Kheris (199.35.212.162) |
I agree regarding the statements on culture, Beethoven, Schiller, etc. LHL does not own those ideas nor does he own the only way to interpret and appreciate the past and its contributions. Nor is his interpretation the only foundation for the future. There is much that is wrong that needs to be righted, but LHL is not the one to lead the way. It's too bad he isn't willing to sit back and become the leader emeritus, and let someone else with the vision and the capability to actualize it take the helm. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
Dear anon 66, What you said about Fred Newman is true...the Newman cult also has people setting up tables by the street full-time, and Newman's much-younger wife Hazel Daren is the Hausfrau of the IWP. As for Lyn "coming around"....i think that is pretty much a foregone conclusion. I think even before carol left him, he was already having psychological "issues". I think it might have had something to do with the fact that during WW2, he was placed in an Army camp for objectors to the draft. The camp he was put into was for "marxists". Lyn's parents were NOT apolitical. They were "socialists", and it is reasonable to assume that Lyn was indoctrinated by them in "marxism". However, in the "marxist" camp, there are/were many factions, some more hostile to each other than to "capitalists". Lyn was a teenager then, and the army placed him in a virtual concentration camp without any regards for which faction is fighting which faction. imagine, a blood being placed in a blockhouse full of crips. what the other older interns did to Lyn during that time is still difficult to assess. Lyn may have been psychological gang-raped. Lyn's tendency to psychological abuse those around him points to this. as in the certain cases of child abuse, the child who was abused "grows up" to be an abuser later on in life. I'm afraid i no longer have any sympathy or respect for LaRouche. LaRouche may be clever, but if you factor in the damage he has done as foolishness, then i think the scale - if not even - tips in favor of foolishness - on Lyn's part. there is much to be salvaged from what's left of the movement - but then again - did the movement "originate" cantor, beethoven, etc...or were these works available all along..long before the movement even existed. the movement - FEF, etc. did do good, and whatever good it did should be credited to it...but Lyn is as much an idiot as he is a genius...and the world's greatest economist he ain't. respectfully, anon 192. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Thanks for dousing me with cold water. You're right of course. I was just suffering heat stroke. I could never figure out what the "LaRouche-Riemann method" was anyway in terms of concrete detail. I rather had the impression that when they were touting their forecasts to potential clients (i.e., victims), Goldman would cook the books so to speak to make sure the numbers came out right. And of course their "hybris" (i.e., bad manners) is the tip off that there was no genuine search for truth going on in any event. | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
Anon 66 wrote: "And of course their "hybris" (i.e., bad manners)" I am certain you mean "Hubris". In retrospect, the group had its own lexicon which is often the case with cults. If you REALLLY wish to scare yourself, find a copy of: "Bare Faced Messiah, the story of L. Ron Hubbard" I read that book one day after finding it on a close out table. The invisible hand guided me to pick it up. You will find so many similarities to LHL and Hubbard that it is a great text book in how a cult/shyster works. When you read the selections of the paranoia, the massive security blackhole expenses, the hatred of the British and psychiatry, the emphasis on creating sycpohants, it will give you the heebie jeebies. What I found fascinating is how Hubbard wanted every one to be "Clear" in Scientology speak, after giving up all mental and monetary ownership. LHL used the word "Blocked". As in "The reason you could not hit quota is because you are blocked. Let us use Beyond Psychoanalyis to unblock you". LHL would often berate his sycophants by boasting that he is the only "Unblocked" human on Earth. He would also wish that he was blocked to experience what his mere mortal sycophants were going through, to better understand them. The present Larouchologists have never gotten to that unblocked state 24/7 as LHL proclaims. They have mastered an LHL scientific breakthrough I call: THE 6 DEGREES OF LYNDON LAROUCHE Here is how it works. You take any person or historical fact. You then in six or less connections connect it to your present fill in the blank enemy. So in 1974, you could connect David Rockefeller in six or less steps to drug runnning, genocide, rock music, economic collapse, gays, depression etc. In the late 70's and 80's you did this with the British. Early 1980's you had the Russian Orthodox Church. You can take any person like Kissinger, The Queen, The CFR, the Trilateral Commmision, Dick Cheney etc. If you read the Children of Satan exerpts, you will see how it works. Decades after leaving, I can read the gibberish and fully understand the vernacular. The Six degrees of LHL also work in reverse. When the cult is on a Catholic kick, every thing that is good can be traced to the Church in less than 6 degrees. Plato, Aristotle, Babylon, the Oligarchy, the Venetians, the Knights of Malta, hell, I can go on and on. When the party is over with a person or group, then you can use the 6 degree principal to now show how they were part of an all encompassing evil conspiracy since the time the first primitive humans took a baby step. Now this works on the members because you have so isolated them from reality via the control of their lives, that the axioms work. What most members find out after leaving is that there are numerous charitable, artistic and political organisations which do tremendous work. When you have complete control over a person's life, you can name an individual as an evil person knowing that almost everyone in the group has never heard, read or seen the person's work or life. This is so ingrained in present LHL dead enders, that you can not invite them to family parties or see them maintain a casual relationship with other human beings. Time after time you take a dead ender and place them in a social situation and they can not resist beginning the 6 degrees of LHL principal on anything. That is why it some times takes an ex member a few years to unwind and become a social, well adjusted person.If the ex member had a connection to an outside job or family, then the decompression becomes much faster. Every minute that Jeremiah Duggan gave money, attended meetings, manned a LHL card table shrine, he was a "Golden Soul" in LHL speak. The minute he questioned the reality and died, the 6 degrees are unleashed to show what an agent, drug using mental case, long term agent provacteur Dick Cheney/Queen of England insider he was. When you speak the language, it is easy to understand the tribe's customs. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the Larouche method. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
"Hybris" is a transliteration from the Greek (the y represents ypsilon). | ||
| Kheris (199.35.129.26) |
Question for whoever can answer it. Larouche often turns to the Treaty of Westphalia as the baseline example of where the world needs to turn in order to have a meaningful future. He also decries the notion of 'popular opinion' as do his followers. I read an article by Criton Zoakos, a former Larouche follower, who comments on the Treaty as enshrining the notion that sovereignty is superior to legitimacy. He goes on to say that America espoused the notion that legitimacy, defined as consent of the governed, is the key to sovereignty, which puts the American view at odds with the Treaty. He further comments that the Treaty's philosophy is enshrined in the UN thus rendering it impotent. My question is this: has Larouche taken the notion of 'consent of the governed' and twisted it into the 'popular opinion' he reviles so much? | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Hi Kheris, LaRouche goes in circles. When Suharto of Indonesia was about to fall from power, EIR decided to "intervene" by attacking megawati as a "IMF agent". After Suharto fell, Abdurrahman became President and megawati became VP. Megawati was still being reviled by EIR as some sort of foreign agent. As Abdurrahman's support was slipping, EIR called him lame, and started playing megawati up. After megawati became president, eir ran an article calling her a "nationalist's daughter". The sam egoes for Palestinian state. EIR could care less about east Timor or Kurdistan or native american "reservations" or whatever. But a Palestinian state sells very well in Moslem countries, so Lyn is riding on it to get appearances in the arab press, etc. Once that gets used up, he'll move on - as usual. It is pointless to analyze LaRouche for consistent. I remmeber very well LaRouche once told the youth cult movement that "democracy doesn't work, only the truth works", and he also once added that consistency is often at odds with the truth. From here, I can only conclude that inconsistency works - at least for lyn. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
The last line is a keeper: "Larouche is the only (candidate) that is qualified to be our president right now," says Larouche supporter Peter Martinson. A former Astronomy major at the University of Washington in Seattle, 26-year-old Martinson dropped out of school to join the LaRouche movement full time. "I'm not going to school with this educational system," said Martinson. However, he does intend to be part of LaRouche's plan to colonize Mars after LaRouche comes in to power. | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
Having been out for many years, it's interesting to see how little has changed in the organization. Only the names have changed to protect the innocent as Joe Friday used to say. It's clear that LaRouche never had any faith in democratic principles which is why he always insisted he believed in Republican (i.e. top down) governance ala Plato's so-called golden souls or enlightened despots. He certainly never tolerated dissent inside the organization, and always insisted that "truth" meaning of course whatever view he espoused was the only way to look at an issue. But as he would also like to say, when really deciphering his views, "look for the money trail." No matter what the issue was, saving the world always meant giving money to LaRouche, since he was the only one who could enforce whatever program he espoused. Unfortunately, from the standpoint of reporting, although probably fortunately for my sanity, I was not in LaRouche's inner circle after the early days of SDS, so I didn't always get to see first hand when LaRouche would descend into his rants against particular NEC or NC members who didn't meet his expectations. However, it was always interesting that one member, Dennis Speed, always seemed to be one of the proteges that LaRouche never excoriated. Aside from LaRouche, I don't think I knew a member who was more full of his intellectual prowess than Dennis. And the way he, and Phil Rubenstein, treated local members was a good indication of how Lyn treated the "leadership" of the NEC which never could do anything that he didn't approve of. Better than reading about bi-polar or behavior personality disorder, anyone can just read histories of the Communist Party under Stalin like Darkness at Noon or other period works to see how even the high ranking members of the Politburo and Comintern were broken before they were jailed or executed and how they were made to confess to various crimes. Confessions were always important because they legitimized whatever Stalin accused the victim of. While LaRouche may not have that type of power, it seemed always essential that people would be broken in various smaller ways. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
I will go you one better for a self-important "genius": Khushro Ghandhi. Including LaRouche, I don't think I've ever known anyone as full of s--- as that charlatan. I think what sealed his rep was some gibberish he wrote circa 1970 about Quine which no one else then or since has been able to understand - thus, "genius." I was once within earshot as he boasted of how he enjoyed torturing small animals as a child. Whether true or not, I wondered at the time what kind of a person is this who would even want to be regarded as abusive of dumb brutes? And Ghandhi is the one who "trained" Rube. I think he's now out of the org - so keep tuned to America's Most Wanted. | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
I didn't know Khushro too well, although I know he's been out of the org for quite some time. Used to know his younger brother. He was a very good kid, not arrogant like his brother. Fortunately, he got out pretty early, although I don't recall where he wound up last. I remember one lecture Khushro gave about the Bach Magnificat which I recall as being interesting at the time I heard it. | ||
| Anonymous (63.188.8.30) |
Anon128 - I am pounding my head on the desk after reading that last from Peter Martinson. I just wish I had him in front of me so I could hear him explain his future role in Martian exploration. I am totally boggled and I know I shouldn't be after everything I have read and listened to. So instead I think I am going to have a good laugh, although it is such a waste of potential talent. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
"Better than reading about bi-polar or behavior personality disorder, anyone can just read histories of the Communist Party under Stalin". Borderline Personality Disorder. It's like a cross between bi-polar and schizophrenia. This is the disorder the therapists and psychiatrists try to avoid treating because the patients are usually too difficult and too untreatable. What I find interesting is not the illness but it's effects on the non-BPDs. The families, the spouses, the children, the co-workers etc., Take a look at the MB and it sounds like a lot of the things being said here. Abuse is abuse is abuse whatever the cause. Maybe some of the things that help the non-BPDs recover from long-term mind control might help some coming here. | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
From http://www.bpdcentral.com Remember, this is a psychiatric illness. Indicators of BPD Is someone you care about causing you a great deal of pain? Do you find yourself concealing what you think or feel because you're afraid of the other person's reaction or because it just doesn't seem worth the horrible fight or hurt feelings that will follow? Do you feel that anything you say or do will be twisted and used against you? Are you blamed and criticized for everything wrong in the relationship-even when it makes no logical sense? Are you the focus of intense, violent, and irrational rages, alternating with periods when the other person acts perfectly normal and loving? Does no one believe you when you explain that this is going on? Do you feel manipulated, controlled, or even lied to sometimes? Do you feel like you're the victim of emotional blackmail? Do you feel like the person you care about sees you as either all good or all bad, with nothing in between? Is there sometimes no rational reason for the switch? Are you afraid to ask for things in the relationship because you will be told that you're too demanding or that there is something wrong with you? Are you told that your needs are not important? Is the person always denigrating or denying your point of view? Do you feel that their expectations of you are constantly changing, so you can never do anything right? Are you accused of doing things you never did and saying things you never said? Do you feel misunderstood a great deal of the time, and when you try to explain do you find that the other person doesn't believe you? Are you constantly being put down? When you try to leave the relationship does the other person try to prevent you from leaving in a variety of ways (anything from declarations of love and promises to change to implicit or explicit threats)? Do you have a hard time planning anything (social engagements, etc.) because of the other person's moodiness, impulsiveness, or unpredictability? Do you make excuses for their behavior or try to convince yourself that everything is okay? Right now, are you thinking, "I had no idea that anyone else was going through this?" Thoughts that may indicate BPD Does this person: Alternate between seeing people as either flawless or evil? Have difficulty remembering the good things about a person they're casting in the role of villain? Find it impossible to recall anything negative about this person when they become the hero? Alternate between seeing others as completely for them or against them? Alternate between seeing situations as either disastrous or ideal? Alternate between seeing themselves as either worthless or flawless? Have a hard time recalling someone's love for them when they're not around? Believe that others are either completely right or totally wrong? Change their opinions depending upon who they're with? Alternate between idealizing people and devaluing them? Remember situations very differently than other people, or find themselves unable to recall them at all? Believe that others are responsible for their actions-or take too much responsibility for the actions of others? Seem unwilling to admit to a mistake-or feel that everything that they do is a mistake? Base their beliefs on feelings rather than facts? Not realize the effects of their behavior on others? Feelings that may indicate BPD Does this person: Feel abandoned at the slightest provocation? Have extreme moodiness that cycles very quickly (in minutes or hours)? Have difficulty managing their emotions? Feel emotions so intensely that it's difficult to put others' needs-even those of their own children-ahead of their own? Feel distrustful and suspicious a great deal of the time? Feel anxious or irritable a great deal of the time? Feel empty or like they have no self a great deal of the time? Feel ignored when they are not the focus of attention? Express anger inappropriately or have difficulty expressing anger at all? Feel that they never can get enough love, affection, or attention? Frequently feel spacey, unreal, or out of it? Behaviors that may indicate BPD Does this person: Have trouble observing others' personal limits? Have trouble defining their own personal limits? Act impulsively in ways that are potentially self-damaging, such as spending too much, engaging in dangerous sex, fighting, gambling, abusing drugs or alcohol, reckless driving, shoplifting, or disordered eating? Mutilate themselves-for example, purposely cutting or burning their skin? Threaten to kill themselves-or make actual suicide attempts? Rush into relationships based on idealized fantasies of what they would like the other person or the relationship to be? Change their expectations in such a way that the other person feels they can never do anything right? Have frightening, unpredictable rages that make no logical sense-or have trouble expressing anger at all? Physically abuse others, such as slapping, kicking, and scratching them? Needlessly create crises or live a chaotic lifestyle? Act inconsistently or unpredictably? Alternately want to be close to others, then distance themselves? (Examples include picking fights when things are going well or alternately ending relationships and then trying to get back together.) Cut people out of their life over issues that seem trivial or overblown? Act competent and controlled in some situations but extremely out of control in others? Verbally abuse others, criticizing and blaming them to the point where it feels brutal? Act verbally abusive toward people they know very well, while putting on a charming front for others? Can they switch from one mode to the other in seconds? Act in what seems like extreme or controlling ways to get their own needs met? Do or say something inappropriate to focus the attention on them when they feel ignored? Accuse others of doing things they did not do, having feelings they do not feel, or believing things they do not believe? | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
the sparsity of the remaining organization is suggested by the lack of LC response on this forum ... curious ... people must be reconsidering their servitude ... thankfully | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
The remaining org is just a shell of its former self. Fearless Leader gave the order that EVERYONE must "forage"...meaning..no one sitting in the office palying "intelligence analyst"...except for a few - Steinberg and Dennis Small. The rest must raise money - i.e. be street vendors or beggars. a few old timers are given jobs in the office as clerks or in the printing company as maual laborers...in return for their long time service to hausfrau. but in general, if you look at the eir...mor eand more articles are being contributed by europeans...and most articles nowadays are just opinion columns with conspiracy theories. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
In perusing _Children of Satan III_, I have become convinced of a a suggestion of one of the posters that the LHL method of network tracing is nothing but "six degrees of separation." It's sheer insanity for instance to hook Von Neumann and Norbert Wiener up with all this alleged mindcontrol stuff. In addition, Papert (or was it Chaitkin? as if there were any distinction among these boomer drones) pens a clinical piece in the approved LHL fashion: take the supercilious view, sprinkle in the approved names (Keats, Heine - the latter to show LHL is not "really" antisemitic), and the disapproved (Stravinsky, Eliot - bad), and imply that any one who disagrees is somehow lacking, if not an outright agent of the enemy du jour. What is pernicious is the organization's repeated disavowal of logic - the one and only rope an ensnared youth can use to climb out of the cesspool. Papert in fact comes across as nothing but Lyn's bought-and-paid-for $5 whore ... you see, if you have elementary deductive logic at your disposal you can see through the fallacy of concluding that because Tony Chaitkin's father fought Hitlerism, Tony himself is therefore not a self-hating Jew ... I don't even know why I keep posting here, except perhaps to help someone out of the satanic LC ... | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
Anon 128 wrote" "Papert in fact comes across as nothing but Lyn's bought-and-paid-for $5 whore ..." 5 dollars a day seems like the going rate for members. The funny part is that there is not even a COLA (cost of living increase) for members over the decades. and" "I don't even know why I keep posting here, except perhaps to help someone out of the satanic LC ... " Same reason a lot of us post. We have enough of a conscience to at least tell the present and future victims what the true history is and to show how the whole thing is nothing more than a delusion of a seriously troubled man. Unlike many of the remaing deadenders, I can go to sleep every night knowing that I have not deluded, misled, connived or rewritten what takes place in the Bizarro world. The best review of a car that is a lemon is often from a person who actually bought it and used it. The real fun will begin when most of the LYM attend the Dem convention and find out that everything that they have been told about the growing influence of LHL and his role in the Dem Party is the sickest joke ever played on them. That is why the new pamphlet is written the way it is. You need to have a ready made enemy and excuse to explain why things did not work out the way they did. The lack of LYM retort here is because it is not a controlled environment like the office, er clubhouse in Glendale where Harley and Phil are thanking God they have a new set of yutes to cover the rent check. One thing you can learn from all of this is how abusive people often come from an abusive environment and will continue the cycle of neglect and systemic abuse. The story I once heard was that Phil was enrolled in John Hopkins when he was in his mid teens. Now if you drop out of a prestigious school and an incredible future in studies to follow a delusional man for 3 plus DECADES, you make changes in your life. When you saw first hand what type of abuse was taking place like Harley and know a lot about the funny money business in the 80's, you change as well. So do not think that these guys are going to enjoy hearing a bright young 20 year old tell them about how much he or she wants to get a degree and enter a rigorous course of study or business. There has to be a lot of rage when one realizes that your whole life has gone to support the Rhinegau shippments and castle purchases for the man and his hausfrau. A good discussion in Glendale would be about Bill Endghal (sp). He was in the National office writing about energy matters. To refresh the memory, he had some muscular problem and walked with crutches. Now the story I heard was that he left a while ago over some LHL lunacy where LHL eventually purges anyone who shows any independence. Now where this gets interesting is that wily Bill copyrighted his writings and eventually published well respected books on the oil business after he removed a lot of the lunacy. So it has to burn the remaining deadenders that many alumni have left and made incredible successes of their works and lives after leaving the Bizarro world. You see ,the middle level leaders of the field hands have adopted the LHL method of hating anyone and everything that is successfull or that works. So you attack everything in the universe, especially any person who has still has a glimmer of a future life of happiness. Larry and Debbie Freeman have succesfully adopted an LHL practise where you dump your older spouses and hook up with much younger members. I think this was called the "Dialicktical Method" In Leesburg the bottle rules. The idea of drinking your troubles away is very hegemonic. On the way to the monthly funerals you can drive by and wave at the hundreds of acres of prime land that we once owned and then lost in our usual incompetece. Hell, I would be hitting the bottle too if I had to set up an LHL card table shrine at a plaza now valued at several million that we once owned along Leesburg Pike. There is no "Lemon Law" for cults, so lets keep the party going. I am trying to find my exchange with Glendale clubhouse member Ed Park from the previous LYM site, it was funny. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Thanks, xlcr, that helps. And Bill Engdahl was a hell of a nice guy, so it's good to hear he made it out. After about six years out, I ran into an old comrade still in the LC who had assumed I was living the American Dream - it was almost the first thing out of his mouth after we got by the lies that had been told about me after my departure: "so how many kids do you have now?" and so forth. To be honest, I wasn't too tightly wrapped when I went into the org (no surprise there), so since I came out it's taken quite a long time to sort things out and get on track. But I do know Phil to be the passionately envious sort and an intellectual hack (he would have made a great book reviewer for the Pennysaver), so I imagine much of their hatred is envy. Soros is a bum, but it must eat Lyn alive that the former is a billionaire to boot. It seems only the low-level types were the idealists, whereas the top levels were strictly about money, booze, sex, and power - as with many organizations. Again, in this connection, _Animal Farm_ is required reading. Have a nice weekend, everybody. | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
It's funny reading these posts because for many years I more or less lost interest in the LC and its rantings. I went to the "Yoot" movement website and perused the old Campaigners, including Ludwig Fueurach, the Gramsci Campaigner, and some of the other classics. I realize that although LaRouche could certainly rattle off his history of the Communist and Trotskyist movements, which I guess drew me to the LC initially before its right turn, he always did it from the standpoint of his "superior insight". Everything was based upon the fact that he was the greatest living economist who took Marx to the next higher level. Then I got to the later Campaigners. Usually you'd look at articles by others, and they would at least reference sources and have footnotes, and attempt to establish some factual credibility. But LaRouche always made the sweeping assertions. The Fueuerbach Campaigner especially was interesting when you look at his sweeping assertions about the Catholic Church (which would probably not be LC orthodox opinion today since they like to cater to the Pope) and denouncing Judaism as a sub-sect of Christianity with no prior independent existence. And the org. wonders why they're called Anti-Semites. The main thing I remember as a field person is always taking some kernel of credibility from the daily briefing and trying to tone down the more extreme rantings that LaRouche would impose on a particular fact. For instance, you could credibly talk about how the CIA funded the Afghan mujhadeen against the Soviets, how they were funded by opium production, etc. but LaRouche would always have to link up these facts to some other arcane conspiracy going back to the Guelphs and so on. Most members in day-to-day organizing would always try and ignore these tidbits. | ||
| Anonymous (66.65.113.122) |
Yup. That was certainly the texture of the FEF/NADC days (after several years of running around with nothing but loony literature to impose on people, when Rockefeller ran EVERYTHING, which somehow I could never quite grasp, but then I gave up the Santa Claus idea when quite young). You would have your gummy card table Shrine, with all your nice science and/or antidrug lit, together with an EIR, the "respectable" version of _New Solidarity_ ... and then, as I said above, if you got a live one who appeared as nuts as you, out from the milk crate below the tabernacle of the Shrine would come this whacky newspaper with headlines British this, Guelph that ... quite demoralizing to wear two faces all the time. And if you ever noticed, in his radio and other interviews, Lyn himself would never come out with the bizarre stuff, which made the true believers wonder ... funny too, how he now tries to hide behind the rubric of "FDR" when the only people for whom those letters have any resonance are the so-called boomers he otherwise despises ... what a maroon ... | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
after Fearless Lyn made his right turn, the org line was Fearless was "neither left nor right". when the org went catholic, will wertz penned an article in fidelio saying protestant-ism was about faith only , while the catholics were about faith and {good works}. also, a few articles on the renaissance as something to help europe stand up against islam came out as well. in the org's translation of cusa, wertz included cusa's "examination of the koran"...in whihc cusa more or less claims that the koran is absurd. but too many catholics and not enough of lyn made it necessary to purge the catholics. fernando quijano, warren hamerman, etc. were found guilty as fascist. will wertz and his wife - the late marianna - who was anton chaitkin's sister - renounced catholicsm - they said that the fascist catholic operations in the virginia area made them unable to continue as catholics. - but they still love the pope though - at least according to them. now, with the marketing opportunities opening up in the mid-east, the org is going on a "peace among the faiths"...some articles came out in fid about the spanish islam renaissance, etc... it's good to be a moslem in the org these days...just like once it was good to be catholic. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
You're blocked: a "LaRouche Muslim" is identical to a "LaRouche Catholic" is identical to a "LaRouche capitalist" is identical to a "LaRouche communist." And then they have the gall to attack Gertrude Stein (a rose is a rose is a rose, etc.) Thankfully, no talk yet on the horizon of the "LaRouche Jew." | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
Anonymous could you fill in the details on Hamerman. I know from reading LYM posts about Quijano and the "synarchists" but I didn't know Warren Hamerman quit or was expelled or whatever. He always seemed like the quintessential follower of LaRouche, so it's hard to be believe he got into some altercation. Or did he just quietly drop out? | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
Hi, Hamerman was kicked out, together with his wife Nora. It was part of the Great Catholic Purge. Nora is very active among Catholic circles in the Leesburg area. Just search "Nora Hamerman" in Google and you'll see. She later got a job at Saint John Bosco High School - a catholic school. The Hamermans, together with the Quijanos, were labeled as "syn" agents, as "fascists", and also as "anti-Semite" by LHL Robyn Quijano also got a job at some catholic school after being expelled from the org. After they were purged, the org ran articles about the people giving money to the Catholic schools and churches in the area, some names came up, and LHL declared that that "proves" it -as usual. LHL clamed that Quijano tried to introduce "family values" into the org. Basically, Quijano tried to get people to take weekends off, and have babies. I think there were those that knew that that the org was coming apart, and that the only way to save it was to introduce some sanity. People were told that it is ok to rest during weekends, and that having kids was ok. And i think they tried to make the org more respectable by having less Lyn in it. But LHL puuled a coup, with the help of his long - time lackeys - the Spannauses, etc. The Catholics were expelled, and having babies became unfashionable once more. Lyn rantings started to appear in the am bfg about how people were "duped" into having babies, thus detracting them from saving the world, etc. LHL also started passing clever remarks about how its normally the "woman" who comes up with the idea about having babies - because the marriage has gone stale - or something like that. LHL also accused the catholics of letting the org's finances go to ruin - though i heard that the finances were already runied a long time ago by the real estate scams LHL came up wiht, as well as Mrs. LHL's spending habits. Once LHL got his grip back on the org, those remaining ones who opposed him on anything were labelled as Quijano agents and dumped. Dino de paoli in Europe got into some argument with LHL, and the next day, a LHL rant appeared accusing him of being in league with Quijano - nowadays we don't hear much of dino any more. LHL then decided to turn the org into a radical movement - i.e. the yoot movement - with its breaking of meetings, harassing of political opponents, street demos, etc. - i.e. like the old days. The Catholics had tried to move away from all that thuggery - but LHL consider those actions (i,e. yoot thuggery) an essential part of 'politics', as well as a tool for fund-raising (i.e. these acts - demos, harassment, etc. are what disenchanted people pay the org for). In other words, tap into people's frustrations and get them to give money to see dem meeting sbeing broken up, republicans being harassed, etc. lhl is selling thuggery nowadays - since lit. can't cover the bills anymore. | ||
| scott (65.192.95.254) |
CHILDREN OF SATAN III UPDATE Jeremiah Duggan Timeline June 23, 2004-While on his lunch break, Agent Michael Winstead runs into aging Larouchies at card table shrine and is handed Children of Satan III pamphlet (lunch was had at Mario's Subs, a popular Tavistock Agent Hangout). He flips to the back and is proud to see he has finally disturbed the Laouchies enough to garner their attention and literary flailings, and Agent Winstead chuckles at the simplicity of Larouchies who believe that people download porn into hard form to then leave it places. Knowing that no Larouchie has ever had the money to own his own computer, he assumes this slander may seem logical to them; but then he remebers what he learned during his infiltration: the Higher Hypothesis. Could it be that the real reason that paychecks have been getting ever lower is that late-night Larouchies have been using EIR printing presses to download and print hi resolution porn, possibly with the face of Lyn photoshopped over young male/female (depending upon level of psycho-sexual trauma) body? He believes it is so, and calls for the resignation of all LC Regional Leaders, until an answer is found concerning the EPR, Executive Porn Review. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Six Degrees of Decortication There once was a guy I saw in Mario's who looked liked Peter Sellars who once bought a newspaper from a newstand owned by a guy with the initials AC, just like the Alistair Crowley who was a Satanist and invented the submarine sandwich as part of an OSS profiling operation to subvert preboomer dustbowl dining habits which were the key to the success of FDR's protofascist first-term recovery policies which we will ignore because we need to convince sane Democrats that we belong at the same table with them even though we are more Dixiecrats although we now worship MLK to throw off anyone who has scented what our true demographic would be if George Wallace voters hadn't wandered off into the woods and/or could read, many of which woods were planted by the famed Gallatin stooge Johnny Appleseed whose suspenders came from Amsterdam via the East India Company. So there. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.40) |
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Anon128 wins this round!!! | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
Anon 128 wrote: "Thankfully, no talk yet on the horizon of the "LaRouche Jew." There actually is a concept of the "Larouche Jew". Since the US is a multicultural collection of people, different strategies based on the same technique are used to first attract a person, carefully eliminate his or her connection to the ethnic or religious backround, and then have the person attack his ancestory. The net result is a breakdown in an individuals identity and replacing it with a Bizarro world in which only LHL approved identy is allowed. Case in Point; Larouche Jews, or, as I call them, Trojan Jews. There are former members and web sites that have pretty good analysis of early LHL writings on Judaism and Christianity. This stuff is some what esoteric and beyond my attention span. What is important is a slow process where the Judaism of early NCLC leaders, who were predominately Jewish, was beaten out of them. Since we recruited primarily from the left, we often had the Leftist Jewish intellectuals in the fold. The early writings in the Campaigners were used to start the process. Since I was not Jewish, this escaped me as just some "theoretical writings". What was interesting was how we began to publish increasingly bizarre rantings on Jews and Judaism in the publications. For example: Our First early edition of "Dope Inc" had a chapter on the Protocals of the Elders of Zion". A New Solidarity article appeared contesting the process of how many Jews really died under the Nazis. LHL and company would be debating over whether they died in slave labor or under gas. As if this is a talking point for our campaigns. We began to publish articles about the Nazi rocket V2 plant at Peenumunde (SP?). After I left the org, I then read about how many Jews were killed at this slave labor rocket camp. Every article was based on us being under attack by the ADL and other Jewish groups. The six degrees method was used and every road led back to the ADL and Banai Brith. In the middle of this we would then print nice article about nice Jews who were on the approved reading list. The most bizarre thing I encountered was a series of anti semitic jokes making the rounds of the offices. Jokes like "How many Jews can fit into a VW?" When Jewish members began to complain, they were told by the chiefs of security, Steinberg and Goldstein, that the jokes come from LHL to toughen up the Jewish members as the ADl will be using members families to atack us. Now what do we learn from this? The org over a period of time would talk about Jews, but I defy you to find a Jewish member who was a practising Jew. LHL would often berate the leaders in national conferences for their Jewish Neurosis. Often you would have other Jewish members leading the attacks. The final outcome of this was what I call the "Trojan Jew". This would take the form of a Jewish member on the fundraising teams who would often raise money for LHL and would say to the person. "LHL is not anti semitic, everything you here about us is an ADL slander. Listen, I am Jewish myself. I would not be here if this was an anti semitic group." This would take place despite us selling a book with the Protocals and giving high fives to Nazi rocket death camps. To be fair, we would occasionaly see an Israeli dignitary and send some people to tour Israel. But it wasn't until I left the group that I saw how much lunacy we were pushing. Most of the Jews left in the early 80's. All were denounced as ADL agents. The ones who were left, they were a beaten bunch, ready to throw themselves in front of any questions of LHL and the groups insanity as Jewish members. What makes this so unusual is that most of the Jewish ex members in Leesburg who left later converted to other faiths. If you tried to study all of this as a rational group, you go crazy. The best approach I found was the Bizarro world theory. When you have experienced it and left, it then makes sense. The same thing was done to Blacks in the early years. We denounced Jazz and made sure that the black was beaten out of the blacks. It made no difference what the initial culture was, but you eventually had to beat it out of them. Since we burnt out so many demographic groups, Muslims are the next cow to be milked. So the work will be oriented towards a stance that can get an EIR sub or LHL 2004 contribution. The final joke is on the American LHL dead enders. Some of the former members had a rough outline of German. They would listen in on Helga's German staff talk among themselves about the Italians, French, Black and Jewish members. The slogan : "The US org must get up at 6 AM so that the Germans can get up at Noon" , is not far off the truth. Think about this if you are a member in Germany raising a glass of rhinegau. Helga has a fully paid castle, paid for by the Jews who cracked the whip to raise the money in the US. Her castle is free and clear, while the remaining dead enders are mortgaged over their heads. Tis truly the Bizarro world. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
Even the online edition of _Dope, Inc._ (p.32) retails a claim to the authenticity of the so-called _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. So much for adequacy of the LC's historiographical methods. Evidence for the claim that the fundraising target is being shifted to Muslims can be seen amid LHL's most recent ahistorical rantings which intermittently cough up references to "Egypt's pyramid builders" and to the supposition that Hellenic culture owes its most significant features to the same, a slave society. And we all know, of course, how much Islam contributed to Pharoanic culture. Hey, Chris, how about a cartoon strip on the Bizarro World: "The Globetrotting Adventures of Lyndy," or "Heroic Hermyle Saves the World," or "Junketing Junior Jews down the Hebrews," etc.? | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
Let's not forget that Phil Rubenstein's father or grandfather I believe was an Orthodox Rabbi. I beieve Phil actually had initially received such training or maybe went to rabbinical school. It's something he used to mention, but maybe keeps that to himself nowadays. I don't recall him ever making any objections to any of the coarse anti-semitic "jokes" or rantings of LHL or others. | ||
| Kheris (63.155.144.35) |
From xlcr: This would take the form of a Jewish member on the fundraising teams who would often raise money for LHL and would say to the person. "LHL is not anti semitic, everything you here about us is an ADL slander. Listen, I am Jewish myself. I would not be here if this was an anti semitic group." Harley Schlanger used almost those exact words in response to an allegation of antisemitism raised by a college newspaper reporter. From Anon128: Evidence for the claim that the fundraising target is being shifted to Muslims can be seen amid LHL's most recent ahistorical rantings which intermittently cough up references to "Egypt's pyramid builders" and to the supposition that Hellenic culture owes its most significant features to the same, a slave society. And we all know, of course, how much Islam contributed to Pharoanic culture. I have seen that too. | ||
| Anonymous (128.59.154.103) |
So grateful I don't have to deploy (i.e., sell magazines) or do the phones (i.e., telemarket) this weekend, but just might have the opportunity to really help someone. Happy Independence Day! | ||
| Kheris (4.143.224.132) |
I see Kerry has picked Edwards as his running mate. LHL better act quick and name his VP if he intends to upend all the apple carts and snag the DNC mantle. He needs a 'bounce' in the polls too. A really BIG bounce. Oh wait, I forgot, he'll run as an independent. No hurry then. | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.97) |
I still remember reading from the cult's website (larouchepub.com) that some larouche yoot asked kerry about 'impending doom' and the website said kerry 'acknowledged' the silly larouche yoot with a nod or something like that....trying to make it sound like kerry is a closet larouchie...or one of those 'democrats who supports larouche but wants to remain anon'.... well, i guess kerry i sreally going all out to keep his 'support' of larouche unknown...by choosing somebody else as his VP... | ||
| borisbad (64.205.191.198) |
I just was reading a LaRouche address to the Yoots from Nov. 2003 where he states the org. needs $300,000 per week to operate. Since they don't really put out publications, where does the money he claims they need come from and where does it go? He also was still holding to the line that Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11 that it was a right wing group from the military. Bizarre stuff. | ||
| xlcr4life (65.34.223.138) |
If you look at the FEC lists of money for LHL. A good chunk of the incoming money is raised via the campaign. The money then is dispersed through local office expenses to cover rents, phones and other costs. So it is always important to run for office. LHL also gets a certain protection against many groups who are non profit. Non profits can't publish the type of things they would wish because it would jeopordize their tax exempt status. The LHL Familia can file petty type complaints against its critics. Thus the need to run for the presidency year round, 24/7. As far as the Boston convention goes. The yutes will be dispersed to Boston and told that there is a good chance that through an open convention, delegates can pledge support to LHL and the LHL platform. Some leafletts will probably be issued against Kerry to curry favors with supposed Republican supporters. This way , you have all parties covered and can claim to be the influence behind the US Presidential election. In previous races, we issued statements and flyers attacking Mondale as a KGB agent and caused quite a big uproar with mental health questions about Dukakis. If Bush wins, it will be because the Kerry camp did not accept the LHL plan. If Kerry wins, it will be be because of LHL's work against the Beast men. Either way, you are doing it for $35 bucks a week. In reality, the LHL wing is non existant and viewed as a collection of crazies among the usual gatherings of a convention, accept the crazies get credentials and meetings. You know the money is bad because no national half hour TV spots have been run, just local obscure spots. As far as the yutes go. There will be many a briefing given to them about how influential LHL is and how much power is being wielded. Since LHL has a good 40 year run with tall tales, the yutes will WANT to believe that their physical and mental destruction has a purpose. If you want to see how funny this is just take a peek at the FDR-PAC LHL site where the last entry is from a few years ago. Humor and tragedy often can be the same thing. One can laugh at the remaining dead enders who still cling to a 30 year dream while their fellow dead enders prepare the music for their funerals. The tragedy is in seeing the very young yutes who were just born when most of us high taled it out of Leesburg, continue to leave their productive years behind. What was always funny in retrospect was how we would be at Dem. meetings to argue for LHL to speak, while he was in Germany sipping Rhinegau with a string quartet at his feet. I must publically give Anon 192 his props for his often insightfull analysis. The idea that what ever delusion emerges from a crazed LHL mandible must then be "proven" by the intell sectors hit me like a Mike Tyson punch. I thought that we had an actual intell gathering and discussion of events in my era. Now I understand why we would often publish memoirs from the Bizarro world, rather than actual intell. Did you know that we praised Juan Peron and Fernidad Marcos as Platonic leaders? I guess we will be reading what the present yutes have gone through eventually. xlcr4life | ||
| Anonymous (192.198.147.96) |
hi, there is a word in the "intell sector" of the nat. office, and it's called "suppress". This word is literal used by the "editors", etc. that makes up the "intell sector" of the nat. office. during my brief stint in the LaRouche cult, i often sent "slugs" (i.e. news copy pasted from the internet) to the nat. office via e-mail. what i noticed was slugs that fit the current "hypothesis" would be accepted, but those that didn't fit too well would never see the light of day - at least no tin any am bfg. the org would decide who to curry favor with - once it was with mahathir, another time it was with suharto, then megawati - the list goes on. so the am bfg had to reflect how great or good those that the org was trying to kiss up to, and how "evil" those that the org targeted. sometimes, the org would target the supposed "enemies" of those that they are kissing up to, hoping to get noticed - worked rather well in malaysia for a while - and would get some mention in the local mainstream press, or some VIP there will to give an interview in return for the favor. it didn't matter if what was being printed was true or false - the only thing that mattered was "the big picture" - the in-house term used to justify any "supression". years ago, the org tried to kiss up to sudan, and lhl together with hausfrau got an invitation there - even rubbed shoulders with the sudannese PM - "proof" yet again of how much "influence" pimping can get you - all this went on despite the fact that the sudanese gov. is off its centre and wages a genocidal war against "christian" rebels in southern sudan who rejects the idea of an islamic state. the org would defend sudan and say thing like - it all a lie by those NGOs, etc. and that sudan is standing up to the "international oligarchy" - just because it defaulted on some IMF debt. recently, kofi annan came out and condemned in the press, cause southern sudanese villages are being systematically destroyed in order to stamp out the rebellion. so much for standing up to the oligarchy. i guess we have to ask ourselves - was it worth it to kiss up to a government that destroys hundreds of villages of its own people just because it refused to make some payments to the IMF. that is the nature of the "intel" published in EIR. even those stats of "economic collapse" leave out unconvenient thigns like actual physical economic progress in other sectors to just focus on the bad news. some goes for the "science" - some of it a re-hash of what is found in the public library - mixed in with some broad sweeping LHL opinions - passed off as "insight". the yoots are being taken on the "criminal" ride - their lives are being ruined - all just because LHL and hausfrau decided a long time ago that - this way of making a living beats getting an honest 9 to 5 job anyday. | ||
| Scott (65.192.95.254) |
