| Author | Message | ||
     preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
I know nothing of the world outside of The Bible Speaks. My father is a bible college student at the campus in Lenox and I am just four years old. I walk about campus holding my mother’s hand. After our stop at the bookstore perhaps I will get an ice cream at the snack bar. “Where do we sleep tonight?” I asked. It had become a commonplace question in my young life. A week here, a month there. I don’t know the names of the places I’m staying. I forget the faces, too. I remember cinderblock walls, basements and cobwebs. I wake up in the night to the sleeping faces of strangers and check earnestly around the room to find the faces of my siblings and parents. Comforted, I pull the unfamiliar smell of the bedding around me and fall asleep. “Why are those people looking at us like that?” I clutch the paper bag and follow my mother out of the grocery store. “They say ‘beaker’, mom. What does that mean?” My question is unanswered and I get the distinct impression that they must be bad people. I’m sitting on the floor in a church service. My neck aches but at least I’m not in the chair again! My legs dangle and they ache so! I choose my crayons carefully as I hear Pastor’s yelling getting louder. I smile because the yelling seems to make my father get excited. I don’t really listen but I hear words like ‘authority’ and ‘wickedness.’ God must be angry to use words like that. On the way home my daddy parrots parts of the message back to me and rumples my hair. Suddenly, I remember something. “What are cockatrice eggs, daddy? Will I get them, too?” We eat our meals in the cafeteria. So many people. It’s a very big room. I worry about finding my way back to my mom’s table. I scour the crowd for familiar faces but I haven’t found them yet. People look at me and smile like they know me but they don’t. Some families have tables and kitchens and its just them together, eating. No strangers. We are staying in another dorm now but I have to sleep down the hall from my mom and dad. When I’m in my bed I listen to the sounds of strange voices in the hall; laughing, talking, singing. “We are moving again,” my mother tells me on our way home from church. “Ok,” I say. I don’t like this new place. It’s a big house but lots of people live there. I don’t like to be on the stairs alone. Two sets of stairs. Its dark up there. I hear the call for dinner but I don’t want to go on the stairs. I don’t like the top floor. Sometimes he locks me up there. Sometimes I run for the door and he laughs at me because he is stronger. He touches me and I don’t like it. My parents tell me its safe here. We all love Jesus. I know I am a naughty girl. I know I have a bad secret. I play outdoors a lot. The field is open and I can see in all directions. I like to climb trees. Climbing trees is a boy’s game. I wish I was a boy, I think to myself. Then I would be safe. Safe and strong. I wonder if Jesus is angry with me. | ||
| nonotone (nonotone) Intermediate Member Username: nonotone Post Number: 147 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.211.160.204 |
Preston, How long have you been away from TBS/GGWO? | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Been out almost 10 years now. | ||
| nonotone (nonotone) Intermediate Member Username: nonotone Post Number: 148 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.211.160.204 |
Preston, Your above story is very powerful and moving. I've known many women (and a few men) in my life that have been "shamefully handled" as young children. Your body is a sacred gift from God Himself and it grieves me that you were exploited in the very place where you should have been the safest. Sadly, we have learned that even some of the leaders who should have been living sexually pure lives, including Carl H. Stevens himself, were involved in adult-to-adult sexual immorality. This being the case, is it any wonder that small children became victims as well? I'm both grieved and disgusted that this kind of envrionment was engendered and that more care was not taken to honor the dignity of _all_ of God's children old and young. Thank God you've been out for a decade now Preston. You left at about the time I came in - as a very wounded "thirty-something" with stunted emotional growth and a desperately broken heart. My sincere hope and prayer is that you have (or will be able) to get the necessary help to heal and form deep and lasting relationships with people who will love you with purity. In Christ's kindness, Brian Bowman | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Junior Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.111.163 |
preston-i wept reading part of your story. God is not, has never been angry with you. you are loved despite the horrible things done. i know how you feel it's probably no comfort but you are not alone. there IS life on the outside. God Bless, Dinaweena | ||
| rjfernalld (rjfernalld) Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1384 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.154.160.225 |
Amy's Diary monday 8:30 PM i can't believe she made me sit there. HIS office. he told her i was flunking his damned class. parent teacher conference. she is so stupid, she fawns over every single word he says, cuz he a pastor. he's the big wig authority. And he kept looking at me like I was some bad kid. Both of them just pounding the questions why don't you study more amy why don't you pay attention in class amy why why why amy. she is never wrong and neither is he, is he mom! wonder what she'd think if she knew what he did to me in that office. i know what the rug smells like mama i know how many tiles are in the ceiling mama he knows when to lock the door mama he grunts like a pig mama. she yelled at me in the car. my fingernails had made my palms bleed. guess my fists aren't worth much anyway tuesday 7:40 PM i almost made it out. He was talking to the superintendent and i almost got out of the building. almost. amy! my office, now! he says god is on his side. that men are closer to god and they understand more. he's a pig. god must be a pig too. he really hurt me today. if mama sees more blood on my underwear she's going to freak out and call me dirty for it. daddy seems to think this guy is god or something. what if he comes here for dinner like daddy wants. no. i can'i do this . mom now freaks out everytime i come home from school and shut my bedroom door. she thinks i am just a brat. maybe i am. friday 3:50 PM i bit him and he hit me. hit me hit me. if i say no he hits me. says gods going to punish me. god is already punishing me. mama says i am carrying a demon. can 14 year olds get pregnant? his wife asked me to babysit. mom said yes i would and he winked at me. mama says i can't talk to boys don't worry mama. i won't. | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Junior Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.111.163 |
whoa, this is getting heavy...being a victim of rape....well, this is starting to give me anxiety... | ||
| rjfernalld (rjfernalld) Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1387 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.154.160.225 |
I knew this girl who I call "Amy", and her story is true. In the past months I have heard from many teens, older ex members who were sexually abused as teens in the ministry and from women who were sexually abused by men in the ministry...sexual abuse is all too real. Sexual abuse of chldren is all too real in such an environment as GGWO...believe it for it is true. | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Junior Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.111.163 |
oh, I believe it....though not a victim in the church, I am a victim of rape myself. I merely meant that it brought back to anxiety and pain that I've not thought of in a while. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
I am sitting in a Wednesday night service doing my best to take notes. I glance around youth group section and see various teens around me, scribbling in their notebooks. Someone is moving their lips and I can tell they are counting the ceiling tiles. I don’t think I belong here. My eye catches a youth assistant two rows over. His eyes meet mine and he smiles a knowing smile. I know he has been placed there on purpose to make sure he observes what we are “up to.” The “minions” I jokingly called them. The college students who followed us around, shaking their fingers and impressing themselves with their own spirituality. I am a marked teen. I know someone who left the ministry. They tell me I am infected with an evil report. They say they can sense a change in the atmosphere when I enter the room. I learn in youth group that evil reports can scar your soul for life. I am drawing a picture of what serpent’s eggs must look like in my notebook. I know the conversations stop when I walk in. I know they watch me. They will stop me to and from the bathroom in the quiet hallway. Trying to get out of service? They laugh. I am sitting at the farthest table. The inner table is awash with joking and laughing. The loud voices of the youth leaders boom. The inner circle teens crowd around. Do they notice I am here? If I walk by I know they will say hello but that is where they will leave it. There are no extra seats at that table. I’m frustrated because I’ve really tried to “get it:” what spiritual living is all about. I hear all the time that God is love. God is a personal God. He must be, because look how David and Moses talked to Him. I talk to Him like that. I ask Him to show me Who He is. I’ve been called in to a private meeting again. It seems like the only time they acknowledge me. I notice there isn’t another female present. Where was I yesterday, they want to know. They’d heard I was somewhere I wasn’t supposed to be. I know. I saw those people watching me. I knew I would be reported on. Yesterday wasn’t a church function. It was on my own time. My so-called private life. They sigh at me and exchange disappointed glances. I had high hopes for you, he says. I thought you would be making better decisions. I am on a payphone talking to a friend. “Why aren’t you in the rap?” demands a voice. I look up to see one of The Minions. She gets in my face and grabs me by my arm. She tells me security can back her up if she needs it. Again, at a gas station, a pastor sees me in a vehicle with my friends from my neighborhood. He pounds his fist against the window, opens my door and tries to drag me from the vehicle. The pastor’s wife is calling him from their car…. “let her go… just let her go.” They shake their heads in sadness as they drive by us. I walk along the sidewalk, smiling at the little girls on their tricycles. They wave and call my name. I love babysitting. Someday I will make a good mom. I hear their mothers sharply calling their names. Get indoors! Hurry, honey! The women come out to carry their children from reach of my “influence.” They don’t even attempt to hide the fact that they are peeking from behind their curtains. I’m sitting in a youth study. I know the answer to the question he’s asking. My hand is up, waving. I know! Call on me! He doesn’t glance my way. He asks someone within the inner circle. Anyone else? My hand is still raised. “We need someone who has real insight,” he says, emphasizing ‘real.’ At last, he answers the question himself. My ears burn with understanding. I read my bible on my own, but they wouldn’t believe me if I told them. I see it is all pomp and circumstance. It is all a fake. I pray to the Lord. Show me what is real. Show me truth. He does not answer me now. Does He even hear? Maybe if I act like them He will hear me… But as I will one day find out, He will answer me, soon. I don’t realize freedom is just around the corner. | ||
| kpntreal (kpntreal) Junior Member Username: kpntreal Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 216.183.184.253 |
Preston, I find your story riveting. Can you please identify some of these youth assistants, pastors and minions? | ||
| babybear (babybear) New member Username: babybear Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 69.250.131.89 |
Thank you Preston for sharing .....my heart is aching after what I have read...I hope you are doing well now.... | ||
| jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy) Member Username: jim_kennedy Post Number: 58 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 172.146.205.77 |
I'm speechless and wish only the best for you Preston. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Thank you, everyone. I am doing well. God has been faithful to me. What I shared was just tidbits, really but I hope it gave a picture. I do have names of youth assistants, pastors and others. I am new here and I don't know the protocol for if and when its acceptable to reveal such names. Anyone? | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Junior Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.111.163 |
you can feel free to e-mail anyone who post's thier e-mail address. Also, you reveal when you feel led....there's no pressure here to do anyone in. We just want to get things out in the open and start handling things truly decently and in order. One more thing....might be wise...proof beyond just your word. Not because we doubt but because if things are going to be handled correctly we can't go on heresay. God Bless preston! Dinaweena goddardmg@verizon.net | ||
| arguendo (arguendo) Intermediate Member Username: arguendo Post Number: 467 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.9 |
1. First person accounts are not hearsay. 2. Preston you need to think about this a bit. If the people involved were tried and convicted for child abuse, then there is no problem in stating who it was. 3. If these people were not convicted, and there was no report to the police, and now it is some 15 or 20 years later, then you should consider whether you can prove what you say. Corroborating witness, etc. Not for our benefit, but because you could be subject to a libel suit. 3. Whether you are willing to risk a libel suit is your decision alone, but there doesn't seem much point in naming names if those people are no longer in GGWO and can't be located. The point of saying anything is really to stop anyone else from being abused, right? | ||
| livedit (livedit) New member Username: livedit Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 136.160.157.15 |
Preston, I registered for you. I have been reading this since it began and your post is the only post that has moved me to responce. I just want to say, keep writting. I felt like you had stolen my words and typed them. You are telling mine and many of my friends story. We are the same age, we lived the same life, who know's we may be friends. Just keep writting your story. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Livedit, regardless, we ARE friends. I'm so glad you posted. Et tu, Dinaweena? Arguendo and others, my desire for posting my story was to reveal their way of THINKING and not necessarily their names. God knows who they are. I have since been restored. | ||
| arguendo (arguendo) Intermediate Member Username: arguendo Post Number: 468 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.136 |
Preston, I'm so happy to hear that you feel that way. I'd be supportive of either decision, I just wanted you to know what the possibilities are. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
I was 16. At last, I had it. Irrefutable proof that these so-called leaders had wronged me. My parents hadn’t wanted to hear it, but they couldn’t argue with the bible. All the mocking, the shunning. It had gone on forever. I questioned a lot of things about myself, but I knew preaching something and adhering to it were two entirely different species in my church circles. I dug up the courage and faced my father. Deep in my pockets were scripture verses to back me up in case I should falter. My passport out of disgrace. “He embarrassed me on purpose, Dad. In front of everyone.” I laid out the offense. “It isn’t biblical for a youth leader to do that, is it?” I pulled out the crumpled verses and waited expectantly for confirmation. For validation. Acceptance. The words my father spoke began my long journey to freedom. To getting out. Red faced, my father faced me and said passionately, “I don’t care. You honor the MAN. You cover it. Don’t ever repeat it. EVER. You honor the man.” I was crushed as it became clear I was not going to be protected from this. And then it struck me. Jesus…. He made himself of no reputation for me. His Father had allowed it too. It was a simple persecution I could suffer and though I didn’t know it at the time there WAS a reason for His allowing it. I knew at that moment that I was seeing more clearly than anyone in my family. It was our Lord that received the honor. It was no man. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
The incident when I was 16 was the first time I had independently sought scripture myself in order to find truth. It has been the plumb line for defining truth ever since. Slowly as I moved into adulthood my childhood thinking fell to this way and that as I learned how to exercise critical thinking and weighing of scripture for the first time. I have since grown in the Lord and the more I know, the more I realize I have to learn. I stumbled upon FACTnet some months back, watched and waited, scoured the posts, gleaning all I could. I had thought I was fully healed from my past but the tendrils of defective teaching reach far. The ugly head of condemnation has to continually be cropped back. The posts on FACTnet, particularly those from Lenox days, helped me precisely define the personal interpretation of the scripture that I might still be carrying even to this day. It has helped me shed things I didn’t know I still carried. | ||
| rjfernalld (rjfernalld) Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1388 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.154.160.225 |
I remember more than one teen in Lenox who was "watched" by the minions. I recall the look on the faces of those who were not the accepted inner circle teens...I know of one beautiful young man, a son of former friends, who was ostrasized in Baltimore for not fitting in to the cookie cutter GGWO teen Christian mold that the leaders want. His heart was for God, but he remained his own person...an unforgivable sin to Pastor Love and Company. Preston, Lenox was a strange place for many of us. I was an adult student in the Bible School who never really felt like she fit in either. I am glad you made a personal bond with God and let it be your source of strength. I have been away from TBS/GGWO for over 15 years and still, now and then I find a lingering piece of that time that has remained in me....but survivors gain strength as they grow. It is obvious that you have. God bless you and know that your story resonates with many who read this board but do not post...from the old days and the present. | ||
| lalalu (lalalu) New member Username: lalalu Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.165.61.235 |
Preston, I too find your story riveting. Just wondering...are your parents still in? | ||
| jim_kennedy (jim_kennedy) Member Username: jim_kennedy Post Number: 63 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 172.151.217.124 |
Thank you so much Preston for posting your story. It will help many. The part about "honoring the man" sent chills down my spine. You showed great courage and isn't it great to know and follow the truth? Jim | ||
| louise_connolly (louise_connolly) Intermediate Member Username: louise_connolly Post Number: 311 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.61.151.107 |
Preston - I am inspired by your graciousness and lack of anger. I read what has happened to so many of you young folks with parents in the cult and I get thoughts of violence toward these parents who did not protect their children. Children are resilient and so many of you who did not go to the cult by choice but were there because of your parents have grown into such beautiful human beings. Somehow, though, I believe there are many who didn't recover so well just as there are so many of us x-fools who joined the cult by choice and didn't recover so well. It makes my heart ache. | ||
| bob_brinton (bob_brinton) Advanced Member Username: bob_brinton Post Number: 891 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.154.147.140 |
Thank you so much for sharing your story with us Preston. Many of us had no clue what was going on with our kids, and they didn't dare speak out about it. But there were signs. We should have been less trusting. Reminds me of that old Sting song, 'people get crazy in congregations, but they only get better one by one.' We can't 'get better' if we have a congregation making our decisions for us. You are a testimony that God is willing to get personal. | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Junior Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.96.165 |
preston-so glad to hear that God is till working....in your life, heart, restoring your spirit. Of course we are friends...how can we not be? We are our own little part of the "Body", perhaps we're just a toe, but no less significant than any other part. :-) Feel free to e-mail me if you'd like. I personally haven't found another church home yet. Still reeling, still a little red from the burn.....still livin' it though! Hope to hear from you. God Bless, Dinaweena | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
It wasn't all graciousness and forgiveness at first. My family cut all contact with me for years. I worked through years of resentment and bitterness, but we tend to wait till we come to the end of ourselves, dont we... until we seek the obvious and only resolution. Thank you everyone for your encouragement. And for 'listening'. Many of my family are still in. Some have been free longer than me. And some are on the fence. Just for the record, I was a a child in Lenox but my teen years fell in Baltimore. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Louise... my heart breaks for my "generation" the second generation ministry kids. This wickedly flawed way of thinking is all we knew and at every turn it is force fed to us as truth. Many of us do not recover. Many of us forget God is the giver of the gift of our free volition and we do not use it to pursue Him on the outside. We justify that decision because man failed us. That is precisely it. MAN FAILED US. God did not. I continue on in my imperfect walk with God nonetheless. The ministry had its hooks in me long enough. If I allow myself to continue in my wounds post GGWO then I am still submitting to its perverse control. If you are reading this and you are hurting, yes! You were wronged. Yes, you may not ever be validated by the ones who hurt you. But don't stop living the life He intended for you. | ||
| lee (lee) Advanced Member Username: lee Post Number: 551 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.96.19.40 |
This story as well as a few I heard over the weekend has brought back to my mind the depth of depravity and sordiness, those I once highly repsected have lived in for years. I am sick to my stomach and overwhelmed by feelings of powerlessness today. I listened to Tom Schaller yesterday and am left with even more heaviness because of the twisted upside down thinking he has as well as what I see as a religious fervor that we should be frightened of. Preston, I pray for you and hope God answers for you and so many others that were touched at such an early age. I am beyond feeling the raging anger I once felt as I heard stories of this man's ministry of depravity. I want God to move. Now. | ||
| minutus (minutus) Advanced Member Username: minutus Post Number: 661 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.156.7.250 |
Thanks, Preston, for opening my eyes to a side of the TBS/GGWO experience I had not thought about much. That's why every voice is important! | ||
| bruder5 (bruder5) Intermediate Member Username: bruder5 Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.246.255.20 |
Passport out of Disgrace...such good words. Has an epic tone to it that speaks to the anticipation and actuality of freedom...I picture the battle of those coming out of oppressed countries who after years of hard work finally recieve the news...they have a passport...in some ways the journey hasn't yet begun but access to freedom is in the air. These posts of GG children suggest a generation of young people who take up the mantle of wounded healers. FN rules...\ Preson and Livedit thank you.. | ||
| herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness) Advanced Member Username: herroyalhighness Post Number: 557 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.97.250.114 |
Thank you for sharing your story Preston. Alanna | ||
| john_krainis (john_krainis) Member Username: john_krainis Post Number: 94 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 207.5.195.176 |
Preston, what a story - religious depravity, God's grace, and a courageous young person. | ||
| lana (lana) Junior Member Username: lana Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
Preston, we all have suffered, and are struggling. I don't know if you are married, but whoever he is is a very lucky guy. You have such a sweet spirit. | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Advanced Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 897 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Preston, I have been away for a few days (in Maine actually..) I am horrified and feel incredible guilt and sorrow. I am so so sorry. I am certain I was a part of your life and I did not protect you. As a mother I feel sickened that we did not protect our children, did not protect you... I am horrified because I KNOW your story is not an isolated case. You are a gifted writer and your story resonates to all of us. Please keep writing as you are helping many of the 2nd generationer's as you write. The names are not important, the names changed but the abuse was the same. The reflection of you walking the campus of Lenox and a teen in Baltimore is so powerful. A friend called me in Massachusetts last night to share how your words effected her. I love you Preston, please forgive me for not seeing the TBS/GGWO world through your eyes and not rushing to your defense. Please forgive me... Jeannie | ||
| roseanna (roseanna) Junior Member Username: roseanna Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.156.100.170 |
Dear Preston, I, too, am sickened by your story, and as Jeannie said so well, feel incredible guilt and sorrow. I was probably in your world, too.....I had a child who cried out to me many times, but I was blinded. Like Bob said, there were signs, so many signs that things were wrong. I did not protect my own child, or the many young people I had the privilege of knowing. Honor authority, submit, never speak negativity, obey....I taught what I was taught. How can I express the depth of my regret? I am so deeply, deeply sorry. | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Advanced Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 898 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Preston, I wrote this earlier post to Boddah, another courageous "child of the ministry" but it speaks of you also. And so many others who have posted here. How incredible you all are. I am feeling intense grief for you as children but also great admiration for you as grown women and men who forged their own path out of this experience. And to every child who reads this forum and suffered with no voice, I repent to all of you. I am so sorry. Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 10:23 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boddah, Your words and your story have effected me profoundly. It brought sleepless nights and my own painful memories I had securely set aside. I believe this is because I knew you and yet didn't know you at all. I didn't know what happened after you left GG.. I am horrified to realize your experience isn't unique unto you. It is the realization of so many women have suffered such systematic abuse by male-dominated cult and are now dealing with the aftereffects of that experience. On the forum we have shared much about spiritual abuse, errant doctrines, lack of accountability issues but the most insidious evil is unseen. It has been perpetrated on women.. young, old, 1st generation, 2nd generation. The system isolated us from one another and cast us aside if we raised our objection. We were damned into conforming. If we rebelled the penalty was death. Death to all we knew, all we loved, all our security taken from us. Once on the outside, we were dead people walking. And it is in this state we must find the will to live again, to get up and start walking. This is a difficult quest as we no longer know who we are or how to define ourselves. And does one begin such a task in the midst of unspeakable grief? Your story Boddah is a testament of strength, in a place of blinding grief, anger and confusion you were able to pick yourself up and walk out of it. It speaks of fortitude and strong will to overcome such odds. My heart is burdened for other women who may not have that fortitude, who have spent years playing the role of the victim. How many have stories similar to ours? But have not gotten beyond grief and paralysis? A cult expert sent me this email awhile back about the spiritually abused: "Spiritual abuse victims share the same symptoms as victims of incest. The common denominator between the two is that the parent and the spiritual leader are both the most intimate care givers, and the boundaries they cross are the most intimate. Therefore the damage is far greater, it strikes at the very soul of a person. The victims then withdraw from the source of their injury whether it is the opposite sex or the spiritual leader. They fear letting themselves be “touched” again. In the case of spiritual abuse the church represents trauma not refuge. This is why so many abuse victims leave church and don’t come back for years or never. And those who would presume to advise victims of spiritual abuse MUST know that the victim is telling the truth. This is not something “whiners” can imitate. I have dealt with this subject for a decade and I don’t see “whiners” on Factnet. I do see past injuries being opened up leading to raw emotions experienced all over again. One of the reasons spiritual abuse reaches deep into a persons soul is that church is a refuge from the world. We expect to be able to let our guard down among our best friends, fellow Christians. We expect our spiritual leaders to wisely lead us. When the shepherds beat God’s sheep (Ezekiel 34), it is so completely unexpected that we don’t know how to process it. Finally, anyone advising spiritual abuse victims must never say “Get over it” or “Just put it behind you.” This is not simple, it is like losing a limb. You can adjust, compensate, or make do, but you can’t just get over it. Tell a paraplegic to just get over it! It is like a huge part of our soul has been ripped out leaving a vacuum. We will never be the same again. Gone is the innocent trust of spiritual leaders. We doubt first and trust later, maybe." I believe this injury goes deeper for the women of TBS/GGWO. At least men in the church had a voice but the women at every turn were expected to submerge who they were. And if you were a "child of the ministry" you heard it from EVERYONE you trusted. The pulpit screamed it, the teachers taught it, the youth ministry enforced it and the parents LIVED it, to such degree it brought great dysfunction into even the most loving family units. I would hope that other women on this forum would share their unseen journey towards health. To me, this is the most important aspect to FACTNet.. reaching out to each other and reaching out to those that struggle in places we have recovered from. In years past, we suffered alone and isolated but we have an opportunity to give strength and support to those that struggle now. In the early days of FACTNet Lee Leonard and Karen Duhamel reached out to their sisters, then Roberta and MuskyRose and many more. To me, this is the real story of FACTNet.. women helping women, to find their voice and unfathomable strength. There is great irony in that thought.. coming out this male dominated church.. (I do believe that men suffered also.. young boys experienced similar abuse.. it was not just women, it was all of us and especially the children who did not choose this path) | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
I love ya Jeannie. | ||
| anova (anova) Advanced Member Username: anova Post Number: 668 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.222.226.249 |
Preston has given voice to hundreds of children and teenagers. All those children, all those teenagers we walked by everyday and NEVER saw. Again, and again, I think I've heard it all, seen it all, comprehended the depth of it all. And then I read someone's words like Preston's. Then I must look into this dark, stinking chasm, once again, and realize it is endless. There is no bottom to it. There will never come a time of FULLY comprehending the enormity of it nor the darkness of it. Dear Jesus, you somehow took all of this sin upon your body. Release your restoration and redemption where all seems lost and unredeemable. Please, dear God. Anovus | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Advanced Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 901 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Amen and Amen, Anovus. Sometimes it seems unbearable to look at. I hold up the reflection of child and adult that Preston has shared. The child reflection sends me into despair but the reflection of Preston now is one of strength, she exudes the strength and character of Christ now. Her story is one of redemption and not loss. Thank God for your voice, Preston... | ||
| aurora (aurora) Intermediate Member Username: aurora Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.30.49.45 |
preston, Your story moved me greatly. It makes me grateful that I was protective of my own children even though that action got me judged and labeled by many in our church as being too "family focused" and put a chip on the youth leader's shoulder towards me. Even my closest friends thought I was paranoid and that I wasn't trusting God enough. My conscience told me they were naive. My husband used to be a policeman and so always agreed that we should err on the side of caution. We just weren't going to have "the village" (as Hillary might say) raise our kids! I know what it's like to be molested as a child and have your parent put you in harm's way (or maybe allow is a better term). Parents even today just don't believe generally that seemingly regular people do that kind of bad stuff!...But I was in the "world" back then growing up in all that! There you were with God's people...My mother's heart groans in sadness for the wronged kids in the church! You are an inspiration- how you have developed a relationship with God despite what happened to you at tbs/gg. Beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning.. Jeannie, I, too, have been thinking of Boddah after reading this thread and wish her to know what great value she has- just as she is. God bless her... | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
I've never considered myself an inspiration. I just plucked along! I know there are people out there silently reading this have past experiences like mine, or are imprisoned by it right now. I know what it is like to have no control. I know about your white-hot frustration to forge your own independence. You feel powerless. Forced to condemn yourself for the very volition God placed in you to choose Him. God GAVE you that amazing mind, to think critically about HIM. God gave you that amazing resilient spirit, to keep plucking away for HIM. God created us to have a surge of independence as a teenager... to prepare us, for LIFE as an adult! He equipped you with skills to cope. To overcome. Don't let anyone discourage that in you, no matter what they say. You have something right now that I didn't have back then. You are not alone. You are not thinking crazy. You see people exiting. Godly pastors, Godly men and women. Look to them for your silent confirmation and don't believe what is perpetrated against them. They can't all be wrong, can they? Think for yourself. I know you can! Still plucking... | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
There goes My child, her gait is grace; Those words no time can ere erase. Those loving words He spoke to me In that dark time I could not see. My thoughts were wild, my actions free; And through it all, He still loved me! He said that His redeeming grace Could lift me from that place of waste. And how He'd never let me fall, And how He'd see me through it all. I can but give Him loved returned, And put to use what I have learned. There is one thing I cannot see, How can I match His love for me! penned when I was 16. | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Advanced Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 902 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.136 |
Beautiful Preston! Very hard to reconcile the fact you were already marked and discarded by the youth ministry at the time you penned these words! | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.122.160 |
The love of Christ beautifully articulated by one who has had no choice but to KNOW the True Grace of God....makes my heart leap. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
If there is anger to be had here on my part it is that so many teenagers were cast aside, potential missionaries, future pastors, who knows? We were just kids, waiting to be shaped into the people God saw us to be. Many weren't given a chance. During my youth there was one adult who encouraged me and gave me hope. One person within the youth ministry that knew I was marked and loved me, I think, because of it. That person was Joe Holehouse. I will never forget his kindness to me nor the way he protected me from the other "leaders." His words and quiet endorsement of me softened the stinging rebuke I received from the rest. His eyes sought us out, he purposefully connected with the ostracized teens. He made us know we were not forgotten. | ||
| minutus (minutus) Advanced Member Username: minutus Post Number: 691 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.156.7.250 |
Thank you for acknowledging Joe Holehouse, Preston. My first experience teaching Sunday school was with him in St. Pete. I've yet to meet a better one after all these years. He loved kids and they knew it beyond a shadow of a doubt. | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Intermediate Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 158.59.27.35 |
Super posts Preston!! I'm sorry you had to go through so much grief in the GGWO cult's youth ministry. I'm glad you're recovering and may God be with you as you move on. Many other teens and youth workers have been used, abused, spit on, slandered, and thrown out like trash by this so called ministry. I was a youth worker for almost five years before getting thrown out and marked for failure to allow my branch pastor, youth leader and John Love to brainwash me and dictate my every belief about everything. Just because I didn't believe their crap about no touch love, all rock music is evil, everyone must come to GGWO services EVERY Sunday, I was shown the door and slandered as an evil pervert. Some parents bought the lies and tried to keep their kids well away from me to this day. Fortunately others didnt buy the GGWO bull and I still minister to them and their kids even to this very day. God will be with you Preston always and He loves you. May you find a new and very fulfilling chapter in your life right away. SIDETHORN | ||
| mercyreigns (mercyreigns) Intermediate Member Username: mercyreigns Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.8.142.105 |
I moved to Baltimore in 1990. My daughter Lori was newly saved. I was so excited to send her to Camp Life that year. She was afraid to go because she didn't know anyone. Her only friend was Elizabeth Herbert (Soprano), but she went anyway. When she came home she was so different, sad and couldn't wait to get out of Baltimore. Within a year I had to send her to live with my sister because I thought she was rebellious and negative against GG. It turned out the reason she was so anxious to get away is that Love called her "satan's little helper" and marked her the first year we were there. She has friends that can attest to that but he also marked them. marked and treated less than human. I found all this out later and was so saddened that I didn't listen to my dear daughter and sent her away at 15 when a girl needs her mother most. My son Jorge went through similar experiences. He was mocked by the cliquish kids because I was in a wheelchair. He was mistreated by Love and whenever he would try to talk to Stevens he was dismissed. My children grew up with low self esteem but I just thought they were rebellious. We were taught from Stevens pulpit "never believe your children, they are sinners. The teachers are always right" I was so blind I forgot that teachers were sinners too. I wish my kids would post their stories but they just want to forget about all those years. My daughter was robbed of her teen years and my son of nearly his entire childhood. I am just thankful they have forgiven me and we all are together now. Nancy Curra (Message edited by mercyreigns on May 21, 2005) | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 70.22.122.160 |
Joe Holehouse currently is a partner to my boss and I've spent the past 6 months or so getting to know him. What a gracious man, so quiet, willing to listen, and absolutely gives no condemnation when people make mistakes. What a priviledge to be defended by someone like him....he's a true friend. | ||
| lana (lana) Junior Member Username: lana Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
When I went to S. Berwick, although older, I had a close relationship with Jesus. I was in a bad relationship and my sister said come here, this is what you are looking for. I went. 10 years of submission and obedience replaced Jesus with Pastor Stevens. That is a thieft of the highist order. It is like child abuse. Yrs. have passed, terrible struggles, but in His way, He led me through. Factnet has brought us togather as a family, yes, the family of God | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Many people stay because the alternative is a loss they can't bear to deal with. Loss of parents, children, family and friends. They stay and turn a blind eye because everything they know is there in GGWO. My decision to leave was costly. I lost my parents for several years, at a most crucial time in my young adult life... my late teens/early twenties. But the cost would have been unbearable if I'd stayed. I leave a wake of mistakes behind me but my past wrongs do not eternally scar my soul as I was led to believe. God does not practice within the confines of the Greater Grace box. My mother once confronted youth leadership in Baltimore about the teens that were left to slip through the cracks. Leadership's reply was this: "I am not here for the ones that cause trouble." Come again?? Just exactly WHO determines whether a teen is deemed worthy of investment? How the hell is that determination made? Wickedness. It belies the very title they claim possession of: Youth MINISTRY. | ||
| heather (heather) Intermediate Member Username: heather Post Number: 262 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.136 |
Preston and others Thank you so much for these posts. I read them twice because the first time I wept and pleaded with God to end this once and for all. I am asking that you keep posting your stories as there are new people reading, many many new people. I had dinner with a couple tonight who were going home to read. The woman was broken when I mentioned prestons story as well as others. They will be contacting other friends. I have FACTNET.ORG signs all over my truck as well as other Greater Grace related signs all on neon colored poster paper.God has allowed me to speak to so many people over the last 2 weeks, handing out flyers regarding the cultic activity as well as factnet, carlstevens.org etc. I didnt know where to post this and I didnt want to post it on every thread, but please keep up the posts and the stories. A childs life could depend on it. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
My parents are exiting. | ||
| anon_brief (anon_brief) Intermediate Member Username: anon_brief Post Number: 334 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 151.196.255.3 |
Thanks be to God. | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Advanced Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 913 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.136 |
Preston, This brings tears.. Isn't it amazing how God uses the individuals in our life to lead us out? Each having a small part in the process of exiting and the whole of it together is the Hand of God. He is so patient and yet tenacious for His children. I am sooo happy! | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Thank you, Jeannie. Who is Preston? Some may wonder. I am your daughter. I am your sister. I am your student. I am your best friend. I sit next to you in church. I am one voice and I speak for many. But most importantly, I am His. And I am not alone. | ||
| ski (ski) Member Username: ski Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 80.93.102.130 |
bump (Message edited by ski on May 19, 2005) | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Advanced Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 931 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Preston, powerful words once again! You are my sister, my daughter, my friend. Your words have a hundred different faces to it. And you are so right! In our darkest place is where we meet Him and we are alone no more. I know... most women exiting know also. Below is an excerpt from an earlier post. I am sharing about my experience when I was marked, slandered, shunned and alone... My secret suffering.... only a very few close friends even knew.... I got up each day and went to work and excelled at my job. I had a former friend (all friends are former once you leave GGWO because they discard you into non-existance,) she is pastor's wife still in GG, she told me she didn't understand why I seemed so successful while not at GGWO. She really believes that if you leave GG you will be judged. But I was not judged by God or the outside world. I was loved and accepted. In the most darkest of moments I felt His presence with me. He kept me from taking my life.. in this place I understood very little but I knew this one thing: He did not discard me, and when everything was stripped from me, my communion with Him was real. He healed my heart and directed my path to seek understanding of how this could happen. As Lee and Roberta wrote, TBS/GGWO controlled us with fear and shame. I remember this line in the movie "Good Will Hunting" Robin Williams as Matt Damon's doctor repeats this line over and over again until "Will" breaks.. the line is "It's not your fault, It's not your fault, It's not your fault" Once we hear the Spirit's voice whispering those words, we are never alone again... | ||
| aurora (aurora) Intermediate Member Username: aurora Post Number: 122 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.30.49.45 |
Amen, Jeannie. | ||
| herroyalhighness (herroyalhighness) Advanced Member Username: herroyalhighness Post Number: 576 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.97.250.114 |
Jeannie - I'd forgotten that scene from GWH - it was powerful. Preston, thanks again for sharing your story. Mercy - tears at your daughter's experience. It's so sad that just a small handful of people (GGWO/TBS is truly a drop in the bucket if you back up far enough to see how they fit into the big scheme of things.) can render such harm to others, especially to young people...don't know why that seems more significant to me. Keep the voices speaking. Tell the stories. | ||
| lee (lee) Advanced Member Username: lee Post Number: 570 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.96.19.40 |
Doctrines can be corrected Friendships can be restored Money can be paid back or re earned People can relocate Kids innocence that has been ripped away from them cannot be given back. Those perpetrators are in the worst possible situation. I agree, tell the stories. What a choir of voices! | ||
| ski (ski) Member Username: ski Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 80.93.102.130 |
bump | ||
| louise_connolly (louise_connolly) Intermediate Member Username: louise_connolly Post Number: 324 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.61.151.107 |
Preston - I am thrilled to read that your parents are exiting GGWO. God Bless you and your family. | ||
| preston (preston) New member Username: preston Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
When I finally removed the blinders and saw things as they really are, I was oversaturated with the negativity of it all. I had, after all, faced a lot of uncomfortable realizations. And truthfully, my mind must squarely face it all before I can move on in an emotionally healthy way. We all have to determine when to move forward. Some of us are called to stay and help others transition out through FACTnet, but for others the stay here is brief. We are meant to learn what we can. To tell our story, surround it prayerfully and leave it for others to find. Whatever we are led to do, whatever stage of exiting we are in, I think this analogy fits well: when the feds are looking to spot fake currency they don't focus so much on the counterfeit money... they study the actual bill. They scrutinize it and commit it to memory. It is the same with Truth, scripturally speaking. I encourage you all to remain focused on the "true currency". You can bury yourself in these threads looking for answers. But moreso, bury yourself in the Word. Look to the scripture and you will be able to spot counterfeit by your knowledge of His truth. God bless you all here at FACTnet! Preston preston_jeremiah29_11 at yahoo | ||
| rjfernalld (rjfernalld) Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1391 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.154.160.225 |
Blessings to you too Preston. Some of the current GGWO teens have communicated to me that your posts have really made a difference to them...I thank you for that. God has truly blessed us with your honesty...thank you again. Roberta | ||
| offshore (offshore) Member Username: offshore Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 64.222.226.249 |
Preston, I think that is so true. You have a lot of wisdom. When I was born again at 19, I read the Word and studied and I loved Jesus. My heart was that way when I went to TBS along with about 80 friends from where I lived. We all loved Him and each other. We would do anything for each other because we were comrades in Christ. By the time we left, many of us felt bamboozled, screwed over, and used. Even though my trust level about God was nearly devastated, my foundation in Him remained and His love for me never changed. I hear the tenderness your heart. We are praying for all of you that your way out is safe. | ||
| preston (preston) Junior Member Username: preston Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
I felt like I belonged more to the world than the church. I was 16 and feeling the brunt of being marked. I knew the spiritual rights and wrongs but it didn’t add up to me. I am a pastor’s daughter. How in the loving house of the Lord could I feel so ostracized? At least with my worldly peers I knew where I stood. They could be cruel, but they were openly so. It wasn’t safe in either place but at least the world was more transparent. Still I was naïve. Its just a party, the monster assured me. Just a bunch of us hanging out having fun. Not like that kooky church you’re involved in. I wanted to belong. Be someplace where I wasn’t judged. I tune out the occasional crashing of pins in the bowling alley. The in-crowd has formed their team and the youth leaders and minions are bragging on best out of three. The lanes smell of stale cigarettes. It’s not my turn and so I sit and let my thoughts wander back to the hidden parts of my mind... …Scrambling for the doorknob I fight back. With the gnawing thought at the back of my mind that it is futile, still I fight. The taste of blood in my mouth. The alarm clock in the corner blinking 12:00… 12:00. It must have been knocked over in the struggle. I can see the sky out the window. I wonder how it can seem so oddly peaceful; the sky. I feel it all and yet I am numb. Time ticks on and yet it stands still… “Damaged goods,” the youth leader’s voice rises above the sounds of the crashing pins. “The soul is irretrievably scarred. YOU let it in. You entertained it. You gave away what God intended for purity. You may be healed of it, but you will always bear the scar.” He may not know its me he’s speaking of. But his tongue in cheek manner and pompous look finds my eye and holds it a bit just the same. My scalp hurts from the way the monster pulled my hair. My leg muscles are on fire. The cut on my lip beneath the lipstick. You weren’t strong enough… I accuse myself. I meet the leader in the hall one Sunday in the near future. “You’re turning out just like your sister,” he cuts. She left in Lenox. If he spoke to me ever again, I wasn’t aware of it. From then on, I muted his voice. I don’t attend youth functions for much longer. Slowly I slip away, unnoticed. I am still in services but now when the youth team passes me by they look straight ahead or energetically greet someone to my left or right. I do my best to appear occupied. Redemption doesn’t apply to the marked. Like the other girls… I slip away. | ||
| minutus (minutus) Advanced Member Username: minutus Post Number: 908 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.156.7.250 |
And where the hell was the shepherd who would leave the 99 to find a stray? That's what burns me up so bad about this episode and the TBS/GGWO "ministry" philosophy in general. So many "slipped away" over so many years and NO ONE went after them with the genuine love of Christ. They were too busy with the mutual admiration, manipulation, and exploitation games. I am grieved for you, Preston. "A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench..." Matthew 12:20 | ||
| lee (lee) Advanced Member Username: lee Post Number: 685 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.96.19.40 |
Oh Jesus, when will this man be taken away? | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Senior Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 1139 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Preston, My fingers are hitting the keyboard slowly. My body is stunned, my mind is screaming "no".. You have ripped the mask off of the wonderful GGWO youth ministry. It is utterly utterly disgusting. I dare one leader in GGWO to come on this forum and talk about their policy of "marking." This is NOT a nice church! This a cult that ate our children! Thank you sharing this here Preston. I have heard your words before from other adult children, this needs to be told. You have a powerful voice for all the abused. I love you.. | ||
| bruder5 (bruder5) Intermediate Member Username: bruder5 Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.209.70.203 |
"Damaged Goods". Two words. Enough reason to never, ever stop holding GG's abuse to the light. Every reason in the world to post/e-mail/ and work day and night to advocate on behalf of those still suffering from this language of the hunters. Malignant freaks who continue the dance of abuse and shame in the name of God. Absolute power turns its possessors not into a God but an anti-God. For God turned clay into men, while the absolute despot turns men into clay. Eric Fromm Preston- You write with the power of a wounded warrior...you guys are the story of THE GREAT RETURN...Redemption smiles on the forsaken and empowers with the language of freedom and revolution... I don't beleive there can be any casual reading or lurking on fn when those haunting words Damaged Goods are still used. How many have heard this in the past. It existed in WWBC and made it's way down RT 1 to South Berwick. It followed to Lenox and headed right the hell down 95 to Baltimore. It's intent is the language of demons. We must take a stand...There's just to much at stake. | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Intermediate Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 247 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 158.59.27.35 |
Preston, I'm so sorry for all the misery you had to go through at GGWO. Rest assured God loves you and will make it all up to you. Many kids and even adults have been spiritually raped by this GGWO youth "ministry". I bumped up the thread "Children of GGWO: Spiritual and Sexual Abuse" which has a lot of youth horror stories in it. You're not alone at all. I'm sure a lot of untold stories are still out there. As for the leaders there, I doubt any one of them (especially Pastor Love) has the guts to come to any forum and honestly face questions about how they mark, slander, humiliate, isolate, alienate, reject, and abuse kids and even youth workers they don't like. This so called youth ministry is a disgusting cult machine designed to make pastor worshipping robots out of kids who won't know how to think for themselves. Anyone ever seen how kids adulate Pastor Love as he comes up to preach? They cheer for him more than superstars at sports events. I've seen it at Spring Rallys several times as an example. Makes me want to vomit!!!! There is nothing great about this jackass that I've ever seen. One thing he's all too good at is turning people against people he doesn't think fit in to the GGWO program enough. He's got a whole lot of other youth leaders, workers, parents, and even some kids involved in this crap. He created a cult machine for kids like Carl Stevens created a cult machine for adults. Kids get eaten, rejected, scarred, and thrown out like trash just like adults do. This GGWO cult has no real compassion or respect for any kid or adult who doesn't completely kiss ass and fit in. I saw years of this as a youth worker myself and I personally sheltered and enlightened kids in my own youth group while I still could. Of course Pastor Love saw how he couldn't brainwash me into all the false teaching, the man made program, and pastor worship so he sought to get rid of me. Thank God for equipping me enough help so to not get sucked into the nonsense. After a while, Pastor Love, my branch pastor, and my youth leader all banded together to throw me away and slander me. GGWO's youth "ministry" is truly a cult machine that eats kids up and controls them. It wants power over kids minds as well as those who work for them. Its all about the CHS program and control. GGWO is a very dangerous, abusive, decieving, controlling place to send vulnerable kids. Too many things have happened and still are for GGWO to be any place for a kid. So for any parents out there, please for the sake of your kids and yourselves leave GGWO at once and take all your kids with you. They don't need this abuse any longer. God will bless you as you try to find a real church and a healthy ministry for the kids. | ||
| preston (preston) Junior Member Username: preston Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Parents: don’t assume your wayward teen will find a haven in the youth group structure. If you share your teen’s shortcomings with youth leadership it may be used against them. Think of it as a mini-file on a kid, as in “I’ve got a file a centimeter thick on that guy.” The youth ministry decides which teens to invest in and which teens to mark and avoid. These decisions are not based on biblical principles but personality and favoritism. Whether your teen is rebellious or compliant, teens that do not outwardly conform and submit are ostracized by leadership and peers alike. There will be preferential treatment of teens within the youth ministry. Listen to your teen. Don’t dismiss their complaints as typical teenage angst against authority. Teens that show independence of thought are subject to shunning. In the same token, you may see leadership adopt a “poster teen”… a teen that will flank the leaders constantly for a period of time while attention is showered on him. This teen is used to show the church the life transforming influence of the youth ministry and may typically show up on the next year’s Camp Life flyer. It makes no difference whether your teen attends the Christian school or not, though present more so in alternative schooling, abuse can happen in either case. It makes no difference whether your teen is a pastor or faculty member’s child. It DOES make a difference who your teen is related to (ie, former members) in the negative sense. Inner-circle teens are sometimes the ones perpetrating the sins they accuse outer teens of doing. Character assassination and “tattling” to leadership was rampant during my teen years. It was also ENCOURAGED. Supervision of teen functions varies depending on the status of the teen. College students and leaders throng around “in-teens” while supervision is lax among the “troublemakers.” It will be implied that home-base teens are more accountable and should present more spirit filled life than branch teens (particularly during ministry-wide youth functions). It was NOT encouraged that we seek out and restore teens that had left our group. Rather, it was implied that we refuse to associate with such teens in order to avoid contamination. Defend your sons and daughters. Don’t leave it solely as a youth group’s responsibility to get across the message of their worth in Christ. Reinforce their value in Christ. Please excuse my use of the word “ministry.” All of the above is my eyewitness experience. | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Senior Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 1141 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Preston, You are wise beyond your years and have nailed the gist of the youth ministry. This statement I can attest to: "Inner-circle teens are sometimes the ones perpetrating the sins they accuse outer teens of doing. Character assassination and “tattling” to leadership was rampant during my teen years. It was also ENCOURAGED." I accompanied my son's class on their Senior Class Trip. The parents going had a "special meeting" with Love. He informed us the latest "poster child" would be reporting back to him any hint of misbehavior. He did not realize he was talking to the wrong people. We did everything to keep the "poster child" from getting information on his classmates. A few kids in the class were smokers, so one mother would keep the "poster child" occupied while the smokers moved behind the building. We kept the romances hidden from him. I look back now and realize how crazy it all was. Protecting seventeen year olds from another seventeen year old. But every year on these trips a poster child would come back with juice for Love and there would be hell to pay for having fun! It was never even a youth ministry function but a GGCA function! I remember in GGCA there was a paper they wanted the kids to sign stating they would tell on their friends if they caught them doing anything wrong. Even if it was not during school or church time. Both my children refused to sign it and wrote out an explanation why and I signed it also that I agreed with them. My oldest daughter was marked by the youth ministry. And when my younger daughter came up into her teens, she was told "we hope you don't turn out to be like your sister." Well, my daughter married the boy she fell in love with in high school and was marked for being in love with.. they have three beautiful children and are prayerful couple continually blessed by God! No thanks to Love and the precious youth ministry! Keep posting Preston.. your voice needs to be heard! | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 443 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.212.157 |
“Damaged goods,” the youth leader’s voice rises above the sounds of the crashing pins. “The soul is irretrievably scarred. -------------------------------- Irretrievably scarred. Any person who says that about one who has been wounded,knows NOTHING AT ALL of Jesus Christ and the work of Grace in a believers life. Where do they get this nonsense?Who do they think they are to assume knowledge above God's own Spirit? Though a person may feel the wounds and go through a personal process of inner healing,they are not Irretrievably scarred. That would be saying that you (in a general sense) are beyond the ability of God's power of healing Love and grace. Heresy,they spoke heresy,plain and simple. Irretrievably scarred= God is not who He says He is. Irretrievably scarred= God is a liar. Irretrievably scarred= Some teacher should have his lips stitched shut. The God we serve doesn't know the words "Irretrievably scarred." Only men/woman who choose to manipulate and control know those words. Said with severe sarcasm "oh dear,you are Irretrievably scarred so I must be the Holy Spirit for you.After all you're too damaged to be able to think for yourself.Let me do the thinking for you." I'm pissed! really Pissed! That someone would do such a thing in the name of our Loving Saviour. Irretrievably scarred=BULLSH*T. That offends me beyond words.Such arrogence is not exceptable. Preston,I am grieved deeply over your abuse. I am so full of Godly anger I can not contain it. I can't stop the tears because of the pain. I have to stop at this moment before I post something that gets me banned. The Lord we know would never say that to you. The devil on the other hand will use anyone he can to bring harm such as that. I love you with Christ's Love. God has given you much wisdom. Thank you for your obedience to His call on your life. I thank Jesus for your precious life. Dave} | ||
| lana (lana) Intermediate Member Username: lana Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.240.205.61 |
When I hear about these abuses, was there sexual abuse? Was it physical abuse? Was it emotional abuse? Was it all based on control? What was it? | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 446 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.212.157 |
It was evil,Lana,pure evil. Dave} | ||
| preston (preston) Junior Member Username: preston Post Number: 37 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Thank you everyone. Truly, you guys are great therapy for me! At one point it was so commonplace in my life I forget how it can impact people when they hear it. I retreated from God and spent several years living in a very unchristianlike manner. It pains me to think of the young people I knew back then. The girls who withdrew and faded into the shadows because faulty teachers propagated the idea that they were not worth pursuing. It pains me to think they might still draw their value from those lies! Redemption, Bruder, yes. Would it surprise any of you to know I am a youth leader myself now? My husband and I are blessed to lead our little group of precious, awesome teens. | ||
| bruder5 (bruder5) Intermediate Member Username: bruder5 Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.209.70.203 |
A youth leader...redemption, the art of the wounded healer...wonderful. As a side note I can't wait to see "The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe" later this year... What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured. Kurt Vonnegut Continued blessing in the work Preston...and I hope you write. You can and should be published... | ||
| sojourner (sojourner) Intermediate Member Username: sojourner Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 151.203.61.63 |
Bruder, Where are you seeing "The Lion,The Witch and The Wardrobe"? I love the Chronicles of Narnia. I agree, Preston, you could write a first person narrative that conveys a child's perspective on the abuse that is so pervasive. It could be formatted several different ways. You could even do a devotional format where you write short 'scenes' and then comment on them from a place of healing to help others who have/are experiencing abuse. It would be a lot of work but you paint quite a picture. Love, Patricia | ||
| bruder5 (bruder5) Intermediate Member Username: bruder5 Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.209.70.203 |
The film is coming out in December 05...the trailer looks incredible. | ||
| preston (preston) Junior Member Username: preston Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe: http://adisney.go.com/disneypictures/narnia/index.html?deeplink=production excellent link to the trailer here. | ||
| sojourner (sojourner) Intermediate Member Username: sojourner Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 151.203.61.63 |
Thanks bruder and preston. I plan to go. I love C,S. Lewis's writings. I love Aslan, Prince Caspian, the children and the whole allegorical approach. He was a master of slipping principles into places people weren't expecting them to be. I just saw a part of a PBS documentary that looked at Freud and Lewis side by side to compare their world views. What little I saw was intriging. | ||
| jayso (jayso) Member Username: jayso Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 69.205.150.205 |
Jeannie wrote: I remember in GGCA there was a paper they wanted the kids to sign stating they would tell on their friends if they caught them doing anything wrong. Even if it was not during school or church time. This sounds more like "Hitler-Youth" than a Christian Academy! I grew up in NY City and went to public schools. You learned "see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil". The kids who tattled were usually severely beat up by other kids! I'm glad you stood by your children who refused to do that. I believe a Christian school must set higher standards than secular for their pupils. In the good?? "old days" when I went to high school there were kids smokin' pot on the staircases, cutting out of classes to drink booze, shoot heroin, snort coke and go behind bushes to have sex on school property. Smokin' in the Boy's room was common even in 6th and 7th grade. But that is what kids do in some secular schools. A primary reason Christian parents send their children to Bible based schools is that they want them to learn how to live a Bible based life! Sex, drugs and rock and roll don't belong in a Christian school! BUT, neither does spying and tattling (imo). | ||
| preston (preston) Junior Member Username: preston Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Parents: Allow yourselves the “what if” that your child might be telling you the truth. Or worse, that some type of abuse may be happening to your child within GGWO and they are not coming to you because of what they have been taught. In most of my experiences I did not tell my parents. I suffered in silence because of the “cover it/don’t repeat it” doctrine. I did not go to my parents because I’d been taught my position of importance ranked lower than that of the church. I knew I was not their priority: 1. I was taught not to trust in my feelings (I did not differentiate from instincts) 2. I learned not to repeat a matter; to cover; not touch “God’s anointed.” That an environment like this fosters abuse isn’t just possible, IT’S PROBABLE. THIS IS WHY ABUSE CAN RUN RAMPANT AGAINST CHILDREN IN GGWO. If you are willing to trust your child, then say it to yourself: “What if my child is suffering emotional abuse?” What then? Do you answer with “submit to spiritual authority” as you have been taught? If you are so blindly willing to dismiss the inward tugging you feel (recognize the Holy Spirit?) and apply this concept… then dare to state to yourself what you are actually doing: “I will submit to spiritual authority even though my child is suffering emotional abuse.” But what if that concept is flawed? Are you willing to take that risk? Do you put so little trust in the Holy Spirit’s leading that you usurp Him for a concept that is potentially flawed? What is the risk if you are WRONG about submitting to spiritual authority? The risk is your son or daughter. Dare to question spiritual authority for the sake of your children. It is foreign to you to even consider submitting your children to ANYTHING in life without your total scrutiny beforehand, particularly to the authority of another adult. Would you allow your teen into a summer job with a boss you hadn’t checked out first? Do you allow your teen to spend overnights in a home you haven’t checked out to your satisfaction first? You wouldn’t leave your teen to fend for their emotional protection in ANY OTHER AREA OF LIFE any more than you would set them in front of an oncoming train! Why, then do you leave them so exposed now? You owe them a thorough investigation. The risk is too high. | ||
| nonotone (nonotone) Intermediate Member Username: nonotone Post Number: 284 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.211.160.204 |
Preston, Thank you for such a penetrating interrogative on protecting children and adolescents from abuse. I've considered some of these issues in the light of Scripture and Theology and drawn the following conclusions. These are by no means original but might be helpful to gain an understanding of "why" things are the way they are/were at TBS/GGWO: 1) The leadership of TBS/GGWO - especially Carl and now Tom Schaller are "held up" to be the ultimate examples of spiritual maturity and as men who are "masters at assimilating truth". All other men are in some way (even if unspoken) subordinate to them. 2) CHS/TBS/GGWO lacks a proper understanding of Biblical/Covenantal Theology and therefore does not have the correct foundation for understanding the totality of God's teaching on the family and the authority of the father and mother. In fact, in his arrogance, Carl (and other leaders as well) transfers the authority of father and mother to himself (because of 1) above). 3) The over-empahsis on the authority of the "Pastor/Teacher" results for some wives in a subtle transfer of allegiance from their husband to the pastor - especially if their husbands don't "measure up" to the "ministry standards". 4) Many of the folks who wound up in TBS/GGWO got there because they came from dysfunctional family situations where they never got a proper foundation for life. Therefore they had little to no healthy "reference points" from which to compare their new experiences with so-called "spiritual authority". 5) The constant schedule of services, raps, outreaches, and classes leaves little time for most people to "be Bereans" (i.e. Acts 17:10-11). This can easily eclipse the discovery of how the Old and New Testaments integrate to form a "panoramic unity" demonstrating God's plan for harmony in the family and the authority and blessing of father and mother. ... just a few thoughts, Brian Bowman John 3:21 (Message edited by nonotone on July 02, 2005) | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Intermediate Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 248 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 158.59.27.35 |
Preston: Thanks for sharing your stories about the disgusting GGWO youth "ministry". Your post describing the favoritism and tatteling is so true and really hits home with me. Not only were certain kids favored while others were alienated, condemned, slandered, and thrown away like trash, but so were the youth workers. Youth workers were slandering, alienating, rejecting, marking, and snitching out each other!!!! I got to experience all this first hand. My youth leader used deception and coersion to manipulate another youth worker to snitch me out for playing rock music in my own car to get me in trouble. Their whole teaching about rock music and the prohibitions against it is all horse crap anyway. No Biblical backing whatsoever. Part of this started when my affiliate pastor cancelled all youth activities for 6-7 weeks because a couple of people misbehaved and wanted everyone to suffer for it. I politely confronted him about it while kids were crying outside threatening to leave GGWO forever. Instead of repenting he spent months looking for a way to oust me and mark me without too much political damage to himself and GGWO. Fortunately it blew up in his face later on and some no longer go to GGWO due to all this nonsense. Too bad all the kids and their parents didn't leave GGWO right then. I would have gladly left with them. But since they stayed, I stayed to help them in any way possible and ride out the storm to eventual ousting and marking. GGWO obviously shows very little regard for right and wrong, for people's real needs, for God's will, and for the Body of Christ in general. Their actions here prove it. Children and adults have been alienated, rejected, ousted, and slandered behind their backs for way too long. GGWO must be destroyed if it doesn't want to clean up its act before more young people are spiritually raped and thrown away like trash. When will all this carnage ever end??? Hopefully soon. Keep posting people. If just one person reads our posts and turns away from GGWO and the oncoming harm, its all worth it and can speed up the demise of this wretched cult. | ||
| preston (preston) Junior Member Username: preston Post Number: 41 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.169.190.139 |
Thank you for reminding me that youth leaders suffered too, Sidethorn. How helpless some must have felt! I feel the need to remove speculation on the monster I posted about. He was at the time a fringe attender, a predator. He was not a youth leader. I do not know where he is today. But I know I was not the only target. I hate using the word victim, because I do not live my life with that label. I'm pushing aside the difficulty and writing my story because I think GGWO philosophy and false teachings can seem quite an attractive setup to predators. There is an abundance of sheltered kids. There is a don't repeat it/cover it up mentality. I covered what happened to me for over a decade. I covered what happened at age 4 for over 20 years. And seeing myself many years out now I can truly say I am whole. I am whole. My Lord saw me. He cut through it all and came straight to me. We do not forget it, Livedit. We never forget it. But we can become whole. It will never be our identity! | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Senior Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 1151 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.72 |
Thank you, Preston. Your words "cut right through it" and go "straight to our hearts." | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 499 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.120.72 |
Preston,It's true that is not your identity. You have chosen not to be a victim by being an overcomer. You have overcome darkness with light and your story brings hope to others. You bring blesseing to those who read your posts. The value of who you are is beyond what you imagine.Yes much greater than you think. Grace and Truth in Christ, Dave} | ||
| bjerwin (bjerwin) Intermediate Member Username: bjerwin Post Number: 327 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 65.32.100.34 |
Thank you Preston, for sharing your heart with us. You are altogether lovely. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 385 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.244.33 |
Reminds me why and how I came to Christ: not to obey people but to obey Jesus in spite of any people claiming control on my will and life. God bless. | ||
| juanita (juanita) New member Username: juanita Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 68.232.94.110 |
I agree that parents should trust their child and protect them. Our church had it's own youth group,we are affiliated with GGWO, but our youth leaders were wonderful, I guess the only things suffered was that one or two of the teens in the group were very snotty to my daughter especially when she brought a friend of hers that had strange colors of dye in her hair and piercings, but the youth leaders were wonderful, we had teen boys with long hair, and they were not condemned by any in leadership, nor by our pastor. My children had friends outside of church though, my husband and I welcomed our children's friends into our home. Although when my daughter was 15 I did make her stop hanging out with one of her friends because the girl was smoking, doing drugs and sleeping with boys. I did this to protect my daughter and now as an adult with her own child she realizes I loved her when I did this and was not trying to ruin her life. My husband would have absolutely killed anyone and still would if they brought harm to either of our children and I so admire him for that. Even though he does not attend church he has a strong faith in God. This type of behavior against kids happens in most churches. My brother-in-law was shunned in the Baptist church because he had long hair. They asked him not to come back again and this happened when he was a teenager. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 509 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 65.150.239.219 |
Jesus being a Nazarite would've had long hair. I'll bet he'd be outside knocking to get in to most of the legalistic churches. We should never assume by someones appearance what they are as an individual.That kind of practice is plain ignorant. Dave} | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Intermediate Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 253 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Good point. Jesus and the apostles would have been regarded as a bunch of long haired hippies by today's standards. How easily people forget their history. Long hair was the norm for guys in Jesus's day and even longer hair for the girls. I bet Jesus and the apostles would have been thrown out of a lot of legalistic churches today including GGWO!!!! I bet they would have been ousted and marked from GGWO. How sad. I do know for a fact from my GGWO days that GGWO makes a real big stink when a guy has hair more than roughly 2 inches. How quick GGWO is to judge someone's heart by mere physical appearances!! | ||
| rjfernalld (rjfernalld) Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1489 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.154.160.225 |
bump | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 624 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 65.145.123.43 |
Necklaces made from millstones. A far better thing than awaits the abusers of His children. Drowning would be a joyful thing compared to what the Lord has waiting on that day. Dave} | ||
| jeannie (jeannie) Senior Member Username: jeannie Post Number: 1354 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.200 |
Bump.. To remind us all of the child's view. | ||
| jayso (jayso) Intermediate Member Username: jayso Post Number: 239 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 69.205.150.205 |
Preston, I hope some who dare to defend "covering" child molesters will read every word of your accounts. | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 158.59.91.31 |
Maybe these people like rhp should memorize Preston's posts too. (Message edited by sidethorn on November 13, 2005) | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 555 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
JESUS did not have long hair. HE was not a nazerite, he was a nazerene because HE was from nazereth. there is nothing in GODS WORD that says JESUS had long hair. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 759 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.150.218.166 |
Long hair short hair,which is it? You can't tell me. } | ||
| dinaweena (dinaweena) Intermediate Member Username: dinaweena Post Number: 459 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 71.248.24.129 |
why does it matter? | ||
| huisjen (huisjen) Junior Member Username: huisjen Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.252.37.168 |
Considering he didn't have a lot of money, and that the metalurgy of the time would have made a razor or scissors (were they even invented yet?) pretty expensive, The possibility of Jesus having a high and tight are exceeingly small. Common Roman soldiers shaved, but they had regular pay coming. Short is relative. If you don't have much by way of cutting tools, long is probably the way to go. Dinaweena, it matters because of men, including old white men with orange wigs, trying to mold god into their own image. Dan | ||
| louise_connolly (louise_connolly) Junior Member Username: louise_connolly Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.61.151.107 |
Well said, Dan. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 770 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.143.80.148 |
Hey, some folks get saved by a hair or the skin of their teeth but it's still the Blood of Christ that paid the price. Hair today,gone tomorrow but the Word of God is forever. Thank God, Dave } | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Intermediate Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 108 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Well said Dan. Too many people try to put God in a box and other people in boxes also. They may think that all the on fire true Christian men always have real short hair, but thats not so!! Not all the men in the Bible had real short hair, and these were men truly living for God!! I believe Jesus Himself had long hair by today's standards. Whether someone's hair is long or short, who cares, its what's in their heart that counts. That's where God is looking anyway. | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Intermediate Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 164 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Merry Christmas!!! Time to bump up this thread for the children! | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 613 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
bump | ||
| rjfernalld (rjfernalld) Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1665 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.123.101.98 |
Thanks Sidethorn...this is an important thread...God Bless You! | ||
| sidethorn (sidethorn) Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 617 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Thanks Roberta. Thanks for all you've done in standing up for the kids. May God richly bless you. SIDETHORN | ||
| david_munson Senior Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 2628 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.142.174.220 |
Preston's post is a good reason to bump this up. Dave } | ||
| ronin New member Username: ronin Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 71.233.252.210 |
Thanks Preston for posting . . . I can relate to the constant moving from one place to another, and remember all too well when my mother decided to serve in Pastor Tree's ministry in Florida . . There, I was forced to live in the dorm where Recent convicts were released from prison . . . men that had murdered, raped, and molested their way through life were sleeping in bunks all around me, and my mother thought this was good for me . . . the mission sat next to a apartment full of drug dealers, and my mother thought this was good for me . . . You often wonder what "might have been" had our parents NOT been so blind . . so needy. I too Blame MAN and not God . . . it is man that has tainted this earth for it was fine before we polluted it . . it was man who would raise a sword to cut down women and children in war after war just because they had different beliefs . . . and it was man that crashed airplanes into a building full of inocents to once again make a religious statement. Years later when I was in my junior year and decided to return to Stevens Christian School (all for the love of a girl . . . ahh the weakness of youth) . . that was the real eye opener . . . I would catch Pastor Love staring oddly at some of the young women, and I lived in the "Gibbon's" house hold with my buddy Pete Franklin and that is when I started to "See" . . . the inocent bible studies between men and women . . . the Gossip hidden under the guise of "Keep this in prayer but I heard that so and so . . . . " I stand defiant in the face of the laughable joke of a religion that this was and understand the importance of honoring and appreciating all of my true brothers and sisters . . . like the ones I have found here. I have two boys of my own, and I guard both their flesh and their spiritual beings to my own peril if need be. That is a father's right and a parent's love . . Thanks again Preston and peace be with you . . . | ||
| estelless New member Username: estelless Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 141.149.237.254 |
Well written, Ronin. I am Preston. This is my alternate screen name (its been so long since I last posted I can't seem to get my old account to work). I remember prison ministry and street confrontational "witnessing". When I was underage I was in many situations where my church was 'ministering' to a despicable caliber of a person. I would have to ride in the back seat with these guys, they would eat at my table, sleep in my home, sit next to me on the bleachers... all because of our GGWO witness. The odd priority of being a witness to anyone and everyone at the expense of the security of a child. Erika | ||
| sidethorn Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 784 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Everything at GGWO took priority over the needs of the children and youth. Kids were looked at as brainwashable commodities for future use and abuse by the GGWO leadership as adults. Youth were looked down upon as sneaky, subversive little monsters who's words were never to be taken seriously. Kids we're presumed to be liars and up to no good, so no one would listen to them. If an adult was abusing them, who could the child turn to for help when no one would listen??? If any would listen, they would run the risk of being ousted and marked themselves. GGWO is no place for kids, period!! | ||
| greaterdisgrace Member Username: greaterdisgrace Post Number: 59 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 68.83.109.13 |
I am so glad someone bumped this up. Where are all the people who vowed to expose this evil? Have we all desensitized ourselves to these stories now..like something we read somewhere that happened to someone else? What happened to our promises to these children of GOD that we were going to defend them and end this evil? Go back and read these stories, let thier talons of evil rip your heart again, let the horror make you physically ill again, then pick up your sling shots, meet us in Baltimore, Delaware, where ever and lets take this giant down for good. And thats all Im gonna say about that...well not really | ||
| rjfernalld Senior Member Username: rjfernalld Post Number: 1762 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.161.133.170 |
AMEN | ||
| sidethorn Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 785 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Some stories are here for parents to read before considering sending their kids to Camp Life next month. Parents, please do the right thing and send your kids somewhere other than Camp Life or any other GGWO youth function!! | ||
| greaterdisgrace Member Username: greaterdisgrace Post Number: 61 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 68.83.109.13 |
Maybe they consider it an honor for Love to coherce thier children off campus, alone for romantic rondevous? Close your eyes and imagine if the child had not been a confident, intelligent child. Imagine it was one of those lonely,needy kids, starved for attention and affection that they cant get from thier parents because mommys head is lodged so far up Stevens •••. How do you think that little stunt Love pulled would have played out? I'd rather send my kids into compton than camp life | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 191 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.11.29 |
I can’t stand cramp life, there is just something strange about being in your bunk, lights out, pitch black, all the while feeling one of Love’s henchmen standing over me, breathing hard and out of the blue (as I started to doze off) start yelling and screaming while putting his face inches from mine, and calling me every name in the book about how I’m a bad person and evil and how I don’t deserve to be at such a godly camp! Needless to say, that was my last and only year going there! I’m not saying that I was the best kid there, but that crap was uncalled for! | ||
| david_munson Senior Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 2876 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.148.68.143 |
Gee Shat, being a normal and active()mischievous) kid is evil? For crying out loud,kids always get into some trouble at times.Isn't that a part of the learning process? It would be better for parents to take their kids to the beach,camping,fishing or visit a park in the woods than go to a "Christian" camp where "adult punks" intimidate young kids and worse. You bet it was uncalled for! } | ||
| sidethorn Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 797 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
That sure is uncalled for!!! Looks like Camp Life is run by self-righteous hypocrites that condemn kids for just being kids. (Message edited by sidethorn on July 21, 2006) | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 193 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.11.29 |
well, i was being a jerk, but having someone standing over you while you sleep is very odd to me! | ||
| greaterdisgrace Member Username: greaterdisgrace Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 68.83.109.13 |
uhhh, soundslike regular pediphile activity to me. Maybe your manboobs turned them on.... | ||
| cordell Advanced Member Username: cordell Post Number: 790 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 70.123.213.252 |
shat has manboobs? there goes the neighborhood. get thee to hooters, ol' shat! I wanna see shat in them orange 'lil shorts! | ||
| shat_happens Intermediate Member Username: shat_happens Post Number: 199 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.59.11.29 |
lol the man boobs thing was a joke. that was kind of a collective whole at lw, me, my issue is more about gout! | ||
| greaterdisgrace Member Username: greaterdisgrace Post Number: 68 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 68.83.109.13 |
now thats a turn on hahahah | ||
| out New member Username: out Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 151.196.28.3 |
bump for new readers | ||
| sidethorn Advanced Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 987 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Bump time!! | ||
| sidethorn New member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 169.253.4.21 |
Bump for the summer. | ||
| sidethorn Junior Member Username: sidethorn Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 68.32.127.9 |
Camp Life is already getting plugged at GGWO lately. Parents please, please think again about sending your kids there or any GGWO youth function for that matter. Please check out posts on this thread and other threads from people who have been in the GGWO youth 'ministry' and were led astray, brainwashed and taken advantage of and worse. Please send your kids somewhere else for their sakes. Please. |
