| Author | Message | ||
     solopilot (solopilot) Advanced Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 526 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.31 |
Come on, all of you "Bible is perfect" folks, which one is true, the Bible (stating that the world is less than 7000 years old) or the DNA lab (which claims that my ancestors came from Asia 11,000 years ago)? If the Bible is as "perfect" as you say it is, then you can't use DNA "evidence" to "disprove" the Book of Mormon, because it requires you to believe something which the Bible says is not true. Which is it? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.118 |
Proverbs 15:1- A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stirreth up anger. The Tongue of the wise useth knowledge awright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness. The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the Lord: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness. Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. Thank you, Lord. For the prophets of the Old and New Tesaments of the Holy Bible. We know your ways are not our ways, let us be strong in the faith. Let us desire to continue to serve you. Touch the hearts of those who cannot see. Amen. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 301 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: I take it you refer to those scriptures as they have brought you to a before unknown knowledge of yourself? A simple question (re: this thread), and as you claim to be of much greater intellect than I, I bow to your seperior wisdom and ask that you open up to me your understanding on this subject - please I will listen (read) intently. Maybe, you can tell us all just what George Albert Smith said on this matter whilst you are at it? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 119 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
MORMON PROVES LDS CHURCH IS LYING “Come on, all of you "Bible is perfect" folks, which one is true, the Bible (stating that the world is less than 7000 years old) or the DNA lab (which claims that my ancestors came from Asia 11,000 years ago)?” I went to look for the source of this persons reasoning. On the Mormon.org site I found. “The Holy Bible testifies of Jesus Christ and has influenced and sustained millions of His followers. It is a collection of sacred writings containing God’s revelations and accounts of His dealings with His children in the Holy Land. The historical accounts in the Bible cover many centuries, from the time of Adam through the death of the Apostles.” Also on the site it states very clearly “The Bible and the Book of Mormon are the word of God.” So I concluded that the bible is not under question by this church. I was wrong. After lengthy searching and reading at the BYU and its DNA articles which show studies of the DNA tests that both the BYU has carried out and other non mormon scientific institutes. Eg: A quote from Michael Whiting a BYU professor: “DNA evidence suggests, however, that American Indians are related to populations of Asian heritage. Whiting does not deny DNA analysis links American Indians with Asians,” Now has the BYU any connection with the LDS? On the site it states “The mission of Brigham Young University--founded, supported, and guided by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--is to assist individuals in their quest for perfection and eternal life. That assistance should provide a period of intensive learning in a stimulating setting where a commitment to excellence is expected and the full realization of human potential is pursued.” According to what mormons are being taught, one of these are lying. You cannot have on site and promote the Holy Bible, then on another LDS supported site promote DNA and make such claims that defy the other. As a CHRISTIAN I am very offended by mormons claiming the bible is not true if DNA evidence is true My suggestion for mormons who are confused with coming to terms with DNA reasearch is simple. REMOVE ALL REFERENCE TO THE HOLY BIBLE FROM ALL LDS SITES This will stop once and for all mormons making such statements against the Holy Bible and allow them to move on with the times which this church boasts of doing frequently. Nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Junior Member Username: godchild Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.21 |
I haven't claimed to be of much greater intellect than you, you have. Everything you say proves it. That does not make you less a person than I. Just a prideful, foolish one. You see, I learned long, long ago that there will always be someone out there who is smarter than I am. You have not learned that yet. Your intellect is very immature. I know you realize that much, or you wouldn't continue to train me in your sights. That is a good thing, as it shows you are being forced to think. Hopefully, by our prayers and the moving of the Holy Spirit, all mormons will see the fallacy of their leaders, their books, their empty lives. You are welcome to it, no one will deny it to you. But there is a much better way. Continue to question, and I believe the cloudy vision will become bright with understanding and hope. I, in turn, will continue to ask God's blessing on you and your family. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Advanced Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 536 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.31 |
Nulla: The Bible says that we are all descended from the lineage of the Hebrews, no more than 6,400 years ago (because the world is only that old). The DNA which you are relying on says that there is no Hebrew lineage in the native Americans, at least not as far back as 11,000 years ago, which is when the land bridge was last above water. It seems to disprove the Book of Mormon AND the Bible. The fact is that the "single-origin" theory for Native Americans has been disproven. According to the Smithsonian, some were related to the Europeans, others to Melanesians and Polynesians, still others to Siberians and Koreans. (http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/origin.htm) If you believe the Bible to be 100% complete, accurate and inerrant, than you can't believe the DNA or the Smithsonian. So, which is it? Hide from the question, and that is an answer in and of itself. Oh, and what about all of those pesky dinosaur bones, and fossils, and so on? Did God put them there to confuse us? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 84 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.53 |
solopilot, why don't you just come out and admit you don't believe in God or the Bible? You have been alluding to it for as long as you've been posting. Christians don't believe in God because he is in the Bible. We believe in God because he is in us. And though doctors don't understand why prayer for their patients helps them, even they as scientists have started using prayer, as well as science, in their desire to heal. You refuse to believe anything that is shown to you as to why certain words (times, for example) are not explainable to man in the Bible. We know we must believe by faith, not what can be seen with human eyes and minds. You are not looking for answers. No matter what you say about the Bible, you will never be able to prove the bom is anything other than fiction, so it doesn't matter. You have made your choice, and you must be left to live with it. The Bible has told us as christians: if they will not hear the second time, not to waste ours, as it is fruitless and there are many others waiting to hear the Word. | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 126 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Solopilot: The Bible says that we are all descended from the lineage of the Hebrews, no more than 6,400 years ago (because the world is only that old). Genetic studies do, in fact, point to a common ancestor for all humanity, as does the Biblical account. However, the issue is not whether Native Americans and Hebrew peoples have common ancestors (obviously we all do, if you go back far enough); the issue is whether Native Americans are descended from a Hebrew POPULATION. In order for the of the Book of Mormon to be true, Native Americans must be descended from Hebrews, and studies in population genetics have concluded that this is not the case You wrote “The DNA which you are relying on says that there is no Hebrew lineage in the native Americans, at least not as far back as 11,000 years ago, which is when the land bridge was last above water. It seems to disprove the Book of Mormon AND the Bible. The fact is that the "single-origin" theory for Native Americans has been disproven. According to the Smithsonian, some were related to the Europeans, others to Melanesians and Polynesians, still others to Siberians and Koreans.” You misquote the article without even reading it. Show me where in the article it says that DNA evidence is disproven? Show me where in the article it says Native Americans are related to Europeans? Read more about the Solutrean culture of western Europe and all the studies carried out on it that show some Asians from Japan had links with Europe. The two cultures Solutrean and Clovis also share bone-shaping techniques If you are clinging to hope that this means Israelite blood that the Nephites MUST have then your way off the mark. You misquote and misread articles. You point to articles that do nothing what so ever to prove that DNA evidence is false, rather the opposite. I will once again answer that I believe in both the Holy Bible and DNA evidence. You state I cannot. I state I can. Your lds church states it can. You continue to even deny what your very own church states. Anti Christ Anti Bible Now Anti LDS You are the one in dreamland trying to tell people including your lds faith as a whole that they cannot believe in gods word and the holy bible as well as DNA. If you again need answers to the reason of how they calculated the age of mankind in ancient times then just refer back to the thread that I clearly answered to. You state I am hiding from answering when I have answered before. If you do not like my answer then badluck Have you any DNA evidence to support the BoM? Have you any Archaeological evidence to support the BoM.? And your footnotes are getting better: “Oh, and what about all of those pesky dinosaur bones, and fossils, and so on? Did God put them there to confuse us?” No, not in the least to try and confuse us. He put them there to show you mormons that remains of certain species that existed on earth will leave a traces of evidence It is gods way of showing us that A few million dinosaurs that lived so long ago did leave traces of their past existence but 5 million Nephites didn’t. Isn’t god wonderful? Amazing, not a trace of evidence. "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves," (Matthew 7:15) The Smithsonian Institute still has on site its official statement regarding the BoM. Its easy to see on the site if you still need re assurance. Nulla | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Advanced Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 539 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.31 |
Nulla: Sorry, the DNA "evidence" offered by most researchers who are quoted by anti-Mormons doesn't mention the Hebrew "markers." This not only says no "population" but no Hebrew ancestry. "Physical anthropologists see a greater similarity in these crania to certain Old World populations such as Polynesians, Europeans, and the Ainu of Japan." "Recently, however, a fifth mtDNA lineage named "X" has turned up in living American Indians and in prehistoric remains for which there does not appear to be an Asian origin. The first variant of X was found in Europeans and may have originated in Eurasia." This is as close as scientists can come to citing a European origin for native Americans. However, the real point is the time frame, which again you have tried to dance around. The DNA evidence indicates an Asian origin, THOUSAND OF YEARS BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE EARTH, according to the Bible. SO, Nulla, WHICH DO YOU BELIEVE? Was the Earth created 6,400 years ago (Bible), or did it exist 11,000 years ago (DNA)? The Smithsonian also says that evolution is fact. Do you believe that we were created? My whole point is that the science which you claim proves the Book of Mormon wrong also proves the Bible wrong to the same extent. So which do you believe? BTW, the most recent statement on the Book of Mormon conflicts with their most recent statements on the origin of native Americans. The Book of Mormon statement says "basically Mongoloid" but the origin statements mention non-Mongoloid origins such as the southern Pacific. | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Again on haplo Group X http://www.mormonscripturestudies.com/bomor/twm/lamgen.asp | ||
| godchild (godchild) Member Username: godchild Post Number: 95 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.101 |
steelsword, God bless you. sp would be able to find the solution if he would just read the history of his church. If he doesn't believe what others living at the time have to say about the writer of the bom, he also needs to exclude anything they taught. Either js was a liar, or everyone, including his wife, his best friends, his associates, and everyone else who kept a journal are liars. The whole world including mormons against js,sp and jd. Oh, and by the way. Thanks for the site, and love to you also. New Arrival Yet? | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
New arrival due OCT.20th Thanks And love to you also. | ||
| doug (doug) Advanced Member Username: doug Post Number: 873 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.111.191.136 |
Solo I recently heard a Bible scholar who has been studying it for 40 years say that according to the Bible time lines the earth is much older than 6,400 years. I forget exactly but it was somewhere around 11,000 or 14,000. Where in the Bible do you get 6,400? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Solopilot. get either the bible as stated as being the word of god off the lds site or the DNA statements off your BYU site. Until then you are rubbishing your church and its beliefs. You are anti mormon just like us solopilot. Which do you believe... for I believe as your site states. The Bible is the word of god. It also states on the LDS's BYU site that all findings so far do not show any difference from all other DNA tests. You do not state or show the proof of your claims, you again twist word and sentences to suit your needs. I asked' Show me where in the article it says that DNA evidence is disproven? Show me where in the article it says Native Americans are related to Europeans? What did you reply "Recently, however, a fifth mtDNA lineage named "X" has turned up in living American Indians and in prehistoric remains for which there does not appear to be an Asian origin. The first variant of X was found in Europeans and may have originated in Eurasia." Again you need to read the article correctly. It does nothing to make any difference whatsever to DNA findings. Show me proof , scientific proof that backs the Bom and its claims of Nephites and their existence with DNA evidence or archaeological eveidence I will state again for you as you do not understand. Whether I believe in DNA or not the fact is There is no DNA evidence in the hands of mormons and non mormons that back the BoM and its claims that the Nephites lived in the Americas.. If you do not believe in science then do not look it up. Stick to fiction and the BoM its suites you better than facts. Then you will not have to lower yourself and discredit as well as rubbish your own church's statements. unless you are planning on jumping ship, in which case I would say keep stating the opposite to what the lds states. The Holy Bible is gods word nulla | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.90 |
Amen! | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Advanced Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 550 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.31 |
Doug: Do a search on "biblical age of the earth" and check the various religious sites. The 6,400 years number comes from a number of the Protestant scholars over the years. Nulla: Okay, in small words so that you will understand what I am asking, how old do you believe the Earth to be? | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 145 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.173.180.87 |
Earth is as old as science has found it to be. If you need the following: I believe in the bible I believe in jesus christ I believe that no DNA evidence supports the BoM I believe that there is no Archaeological evidence to support the BoM. You have shown nothing whatsoever that proves anything to state otherwise. Solopilot You have shown me a site that leads me to genetics. You have shown me a site that leads to fake pebbles. You have tried to state that other DNA results show different results than mainstream scienace and BYU results. (are you still having trouble reading that report?) You have told me that corn is now proof that backs the Bom. Far fetched and I will patiently wait for you to show me the link with Nephites You have shown me a coin that post dates the nephites and has no links whatsever with them, you will do your best to standby this coin but cannot explain how the same metals that should be in the mound with the other thousands of mormon metal objects produced over more than a thousand year period... yes solopilot, I am having to believe according to you that all that metal produced over more than a thousand years rusted away but a coin that had nothing to do with nephites is proof of the BoM. Prove that the coin was not introduced to that area at a later date. Nulla | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 499 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Just saw another interesting report on cnn this afternoon about asians who all have Dry ear wax,where as the europeans have moist ear wax, well scientist think they have found the chromosome that causes or dictates dry or moist. Guess what the the indian populations of the Americas have? Another reason said the scientist that they beleive the migration was across the Bering Strait Go to this link: .http://www.newspapers.org/go/news?topic=837 Then click on article: Japanese scientist identify ear wax gene If that link doesn't work type in CNN Ear wax and hopefully you will find article. Steel Jude 3 | ||
| nulla (nulla) Intermediate Member Username: nulla Post Number: 295 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 202.151.32.7 |
Steel, that sends a tingle through my moist wax. JS never dreamed that science would also be able to back claims made by those early so called anti-mormons, who in my eyes were just concerned christians like you and I. I can just picture those nice young men with college cut, collar and tie wandering around Sth America armed with a packet of Johnson & Johnson cotton buds trying to discover that elusive moist wax. Nulla | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 500 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
I don't think they will find it in the Indian populations. |
