| Author |
Message |
    
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 4:05 pm: | 
|
I am new to this forum, and a formerly attended HH. I would like to pose a question. What good fruit do 99.9% of those who left HH have to show. Unfortunately, I see that as a former member I face great odds, as all my friends who also left seem to be overcome by great hate, anger and bitterness to name just a few. And I see that their lives are going nowhere fast. It should be our greatest endeavor to bring honor and glory to Jesus, and to become like Him. I cannot help but think that Jesus, who went like a sheep to the slaughter, would never respond like I have seen some of you respond. I do not feel the witness of the Holy Spitit in many of these postings. The Spirit of God is the only real truth. Anything else is flawed human reaoning. With the Spirit of God comes all perfect love, peace, inspiration and truth. Maybe I am missing something, but I do not feel that in most of these postings. And if it is not of God, how can it be true? How can it be right? How can it be good? How can it do anything but drive you farther from Jesus? I have not found any grey areas in my bible. It is either of God or of the Devil. If you are not eating at the table of God, you are eating at the table of demons. And at that table is all deceit, lies and hate. Maybe someone can explain. Maybe someone can tell me where I missed it. I am not naive. I spent 21 years in HH. Thanks and may God help us all. |
truth_hunter (truth_hunter)
Member
Username: truth_hunter
Post Number: 51
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.55.228.216
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 4:52 pm: |
|
My heart broke when I read your post. The original purpose of this board was to warn people of the dangers in HH and to show members and ex-members alike that there are those of us who have gone on in God and found a new life in Christ. To say that 99% of ex-members have no fruit, is not true, please read the "Victory in Jesus Thread". There are those here that would have you believe that this is nothing more than a bunch of blood thirsty, embittered victims, they could not be more wrong.
21 years is a long time, I'm sure we knew each other, I would love to talk to you or get with you, and share with you the good fruit that I have seen. Please don't write me off as a Judas as HH did.
jersphotos@juno.com |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 5:11 pm: |
|
Also I have a few more questions. If God has so richly blessed you in your decisions, why do you have so much space in your life for bitterness and hatred. I can certainly understand that you all did not want to continue in HH. That is certainly your right. But i believe that God, in his infinite faithfullness, has convicted your hearts, as he has mine after I left. You cannot live with yourself and the decisions you made. Kind of the "sour grapes" mentality. You are filled with guilt and saddness and jealousy. You have not allowed God's love to fill your pathetic lives. You have no direction of your own, so you attack innocent people who you can clearly see are motivated by a great vision. I hope I am not coming off as pious and critical. I left the church. I was not considered a "bad kid". I was never really in trouble. However, I had decided I wanted to go to college to advance in a job I was working in. It became my God. I felt that nobody understood my ambitions. I began to isolate myself from other people. Soon nothing there made sense. I felt I did not belong. I was totally consumed with what I wanted to do, and I knew that it was not really in keeping with the vision of the church, and I felt that they would not support me in my pursuit. So I left. I went and did what I wanted to do. I went to college. I have a great job. I make decent money. I have a great man and a beautiful little girl. But what do I have to offer my little girl? I see every day the meaningless way of life of those around me. Without God, nothing has meaning. Yes, I am free to do many things, but am I free to be the person that God made me to be? Am I free to educate my child the way I should? Do I have a place to go to get the full counsel of God? Was a career worth all I lost? I realize now that my focus was all wrong. I have many regrets. But I have decided to seek God from where I am. To try to live my life with integrity. To hold on to all the good that I have been given. God has been faithful to me, and I believe it is because he sees that I was very stupid, young and ignorant in many of my decisions. I seek to fill my life with good. There is no room for hate. No room for anger. There is room only for trying to learn how to love the people God has placed in my life the way I should. Room for seeking God's will. Room for asking His direction. I believe that all former HH members, like me, know that they are forever changed because of their time there. This is what frustrates them so much. They cannot be "normal". They were meant to be so much more than normal. To me living for God, in the context of a church can be compared to the Ark of Noah's time. Yes there are problems. Yes it gets messy. All those animals sure do stink after a while. There are misunderstandings. There is abuse of power. People fail. People make terrible mistakes. God knows we all do. But the alternative is much worst. Most of the people who post here have so many problems with the church, but what about the rest of the world? Do we chose to dismiss what we see all around us, just because it does not cramp our style so much. Are we okay with what our culture is doing to our kids. Are we okay with how it is deforming our very souls, preventing us from even knowing who we really are? I suppose we are. Because our culture tolerates us in our sin. It does not call for a higher standard. It does not challenge us to become something more than a money machine or a pretty face. It tells us that tolerance is love. Intolerance for lies, immorality, sin and the like is cultish.
I do not feel that HH is a cult. The reason is that as soon as I wanted to leave, I did, and nobody stopped me. Yes as in any relationship that breaks up, I was hurt and I bet the friends I left were hurt too. } |
truth_hunter (truth_hunter)
Member
Username: truth_hunter
Post Number: 52
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.55.228.216
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 12:22 pm: |
|
Very disturbed,
God "has" richly blessed our lives, I'm afraid you are jumping to conclusions about where I stand pertaining to HH based on your own experiences. Such as saying you're sure the Lord in his in infinite faithfulness has convicted my heart, and therefore I cannot live with myself, and the decisions that I have made. Saying that, "God has not filled my pathetic life". My friend this is no more than what you went through. Let me tell you what has happened to me.
Two years before I left HH I stopped reading the literature and read only my bible. The Lord began to show me contradictions in HH doctrine and his Word. There came an intense battle within myself because I felt the Lord calling me out of HH. This was very hard to face because, I knew my sister and best friends would reject me. Plus I would have to reject the counsel of the men that I trusted most in my life. I began working for HH full time, with Bro. Gary in the audiovisual department, making the thirtieth anniversary presentation, it was in making this presentation that I began to see life that was portrayed to visitors was a total farce. I'm telling you I was torn up inside because almost everyday I felt more and more like a Pharisee. How could I live like that? With a super clean outside of the cup, but full of grime and filth, conflict and depression on the inside. The Lord began convicting my heart that I was living a hypocritical life, saying to the world "Look, Look! We have rich full lives, and live in unity. We have strong families. The life we live will save your kids from the temptation and carnality that they would face anywhere else. The patterns are what keep us in check. They are a standard that leads us into holiness."
While in reality, marriages were falling apart, held only together with fear, kids terrified of their parents and group leaders, living in constant fear of discipline, or rebuke, or disassociation. Which of course led to lip service and false submission. There is (or was when I was there) rampant carnality among the young people. Drugs, Sex, under age drinking, "The Works ". Were these things allowed? No. But it only proves that the patterns didn't keep the kids from anything. Women dressing in their long dresses, no make-up, or jewelry. Did it keep the men Holy? No.
One Elder kept asking me again and again if I was into pornography, I kept telling him no. Finally I got fed up and asked. Why do you keep coming to me about this? He said, "well, if you say your not, then I will believe you, but that would put you into a 1% category in the fellowship of men who don't struggle with it constantly. That's why we don't want people to have Internet in their homes." I was blown away. Didn't we as Christians having greater light, have the power to withstand the most base of human temptation? Then I began to realize that the problem was that everyone was following the patterns, the rules. Dressing right, talking right, acting right, the patterns had not brought anyone to closer to God, there was a form of godliness, It looked good and pure on the outside, but inside nothing had changed. That's when I came to realize that God didn't care if you wore a t-shirt, or went swimming in shorts, or if women wore pants. What He cares about is your heart, and if you love Him. I wish I could say that HH also believes this, but everyone that I have talked to since I left has assured me that they believe that I am no longer going on with God, because I no longer follow HH patterns.
God lead me out of HH, of this I have no doubt, not once have I been convicted of my decision.
You say you just walked out of HH, I could say that as well, except that three Elders came down to my house as we were packing and took me aside and told me that they felt God had given a dream that my son was going to die, crush by a car! They even wrote it down on a piece of paper so I wouldn't forget it. They told me I had had a fundamental breakdown in my relationship with God. Now that coming from someone that you view as a messenger from God has quite a bit of weight. But I had a peace in my heart, God had spoken I knew without a doubt that I was doing His will.
Now that I have stepped back and can see HH for what it is. I feel an obligation to expose the things I feel are a false doctrine and a lie.
I also hope I can retain the good that I learned at HH, but I also want to get rid of the bad.
You have your view of HH, and I have mine. And just because something did or didn't happen to you in HH doesn't mean it did or didn't happen to others. |
hispromise (hispromise)
Junior Member
Username: hispromise
Post Number: 27
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 64.146.89.99
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 9:50 pm: |
|
WOW, what a powerfull testimony.... Thanks for sharing this Truth-hunter. |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 5:16 pm: |
|
Truth Hunter: I have spent the last few days thinking about your response to my last post on this thread. I have searched my heart. I have questioned my experiences, my motives, and considered all that I saw while I was at HH ( as you called it). As far as I know, I am totally anonomous to you,as well as to everyone else who posts here. I assure you that in this response, I am going to be totally honest. I have no reason to be anything else. I am not saying what I think is the "right" things. I am just telling all of you what is in MY heart. I wish to share MY conviction, My experiences (all first hand). I am not biased.
You made so many statements that I hardly know where to start.
First, you said "There is (or was when I was there) rampant carnality among the young people. Drugs, Sex, under age drinking, "The Works". I am astonished by that statement. I was one of the "young people" there. There was always a little mob of kids who did not follow the teachings of the church. And they were NOT members. The reason why they so carefully hid the things they did was because they knew it was wrong. These people were a very tiny minority. And when they became adults, they exercised their free will, and decided to either change their ways, or they are not in there anymore. This behaviour was very, very rare. It was in no way rampant. I have been to many churches, and never have I seen such incredible children and young adults. They were very decent, moral and gifted people. You make it sound like the place was crawling with "Drugs, sex, and underage drinking". Furthermore, we probably all agree that the biggest thing you can do for your child is offer a good example. I wonder what would happen if they had "realized" that they were "free in christ" to do whatever they wanted, drink, lie, steal and the like. The true members (as distinguised from their underage children), did not engage in this behavior. They truly strove to be like Jesus. Yes, they sometimes faltered in this endeavor, but they did not give in.
Now on to the next accusation"Women dressing in their long dresses, no make-up, or jewelry. Did it keep the men Holy? No.
From what was taught to me while I was there, the purpose of "Women in long dresses" etc, was not to "keep the men holy", (although I believe it helped). The reason for the modest dress, in both men and women, was in keeping with their desire to glorify God, and be in obedience to His Word, in EVERY area, whether it was popular or not. I was taught by my mother that women wore dresses and men wore pants. She told me that God did not like women wearing pants anymore than He liked men wearing dresses! Sounds simple, but honestly, it does make sense. As far as the makeup thing, have you ever read the history of makeup. It was reserved for prostitutes and other immoral women, before the days when it was worn by most women. Why would the church endorse its women dressing like a prostitute? How would that bring the people closer to God?
Which brings me to my next point. Everybody should note a very important aspect of the teachings of Homestead Heritage. They do not limit God to Sundays. They do not put him in a box, as to keep him contained so he does not "intrude" on the rest of their lives. If you asked me what I believe their doctrine (in a nutshell) is, I would have to say that a big part of it is to make everything in their lives, whether big or very little glorify God. To them, nothing was worth losing even a little of the perfect fulfillment, joy and peace that a life lived for Jesus always brings. They want more and more of Jesus, and if the secular music and TV drowns out His voice, if clothes distract from the beauty of Jesus in them, if makeup hides their radiant faces, then make no error, they want no part of those things. And they do not feel deprived. Because more Jesus is the goal, and He is worth more than anything. If we who have left the church do not have that same view, that is our right, but I do not feel that I have any right speaking against their belief concerning this. I certainly do not believe that it is a sin for them to dress the way they truly believe God would have them.
Next, about the dream you say that they had about you and your family. All I can say is if somebody had a dream concerning me or my family, I sure would want to know. God sometimes warns us in dreams, and even if there was nothing of God in it, they probably felt a duty to tell you, because they do not want to see any harm come to you. When I left they told me some things that they felt about what I was about to do. And to be very honest, they were 100% right. My life became proof that they were speaking the Word of God, so I respect them for having the guts to tell me what they felt was the truth.
Now, on to the next lie: "In reality, marriages were falling apart, held only together with fear, kids terrified of their parents". You have to know that statement could not be farther from the truth. Over thirty years, scores of married couples, and not even one divorce. In fact, I know of one woman, divorced, who joined the church, and soon after, God brought her ex-husband, and brought them back together, and they are still married almost 20 years later! Also, I know of many who were on the brink of divorce when they came, who are now very happy in their marriages. I believe that "HH" makes possible very healthy marriages. We know that God is love, and in him all things hold together, grow and flourish. You can argue specifics of doctrine, etc, but you CANNOT argue with results. I think many who leave the church are jealous of the wonderful relationships there, so they feel compelled to lie and try to tear them down.
I want to let everyone who may read this know thatI was there in "HH" for 21 years. I had many friends, and was very involved. The statements in the preceding post are entirely untrue. Not only that, but many of the things "truth hunter" alleges are exactly oppposite from the truth. Let me give you an example. A friend of mine recently visited there. Then last week, he came across this website. When I told him that the group adressed by this forum was the same as the one he visited, be was in total disbelief. It took a lot of convincing to assure him that it was the same Homestead Heritage, and of course, as anyone in their right mind would know, realized that it was a very false portrayal.
I refuse to be told that I, as a former member of HH, am a victim of a cult. I refuse to be victimized and lied to. I refuse to salve my consience by tearing down the things that aggravate it. I will not lie about those who gave me so much. I will not be silenced by those who are trying to deceive so many.
Oh, and by the way, if I have known anyone who is brainwashed, anyone who is in bondage to the Devil, anyone who is controlled by an evil spirit, anyone who is using "scare tactics", it is those bitter, dishonest, haunted souls who post so many hurtful lies on this forum.
The reason so many here cannot tell the truth is because they cannot face it. And if the truth were to be told, all who view this forum would realize how loveless, sad, twisted people most of you are. They would see that you are guilty of the same things you wrongfully accuse others of. May God continue to help us all, very_disturbed |
sdleah (sdleah)
New member
Username: sdleah
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.115.244.43
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 6:38 pm: |
|
HH was "crawling with drugs, sex and underage drinking" when we were there. Even I knew that, and I was never part of the inner circle. Truth_Hunter, you are right on! |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 7:52 pm: |
|
There is no use going back and forth about the "sex, drugs and underage drinking". Those who hate the truth will never acknowlege it. But please realize how ridiculous your exagerations and untruths are becoming. I had a whole lot of friends. I was not "under a rock" by any means. It is insane to claim that behavior was rampant. I know the truth, and you know that I know that we both know you are lying. So that right there convinces me even more that your "teachings" are not sound. Look at the rest of the world. You imply that sex, drugs, and underage drinking are even more prevalent in HH than other places. Get real! Look at the fruit of the lives of HH as a whole. They do not strike me as drug abusers and drunkards.
Oh and another interesting observation: So you may ask, "Well if you say that the people who DID do those things either changed or left and continued this behavior, then where are the ones who left?". Most of the people who I knew to be the ones "having sex, drinking and doing drugs", eventually left the church and those same people are the ones selfrighteously posting their lies here. They are the very ones who claim to be so abused. They were the ones who were sneaking around engaging in all sorts of immorality (and bragging to people like me about it). That is the real identity of those making most of these accusations. And now they are speaking the truth? I don't think so. Infact, some of these postings are so untrue, that I am beginning to wonder if those posting them are not still under the influence!!! Maybe that is part of why they are so confused???????I am willing to bet that there is more immorality and illicit behavior in your "liberated" circle, than ever in HH.
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not delighted in the truth but have delighted in wickedness. Thess 2:9-12 |
seekeroftruth (seekeroftruth)
Junior Member
Username: seekeroftruth
Post Number: 35
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.162.151.91
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:39 pm: |
|
I understand you may say SOME have not done drugs or were underaged drinking was an issue then, but I am here to say drugs and alcohol are extremly commenplace thing that children from hh have turned to after they left.I am not saying all but they are out there. |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:52 pm: |
|
Of course, those ARE common things to turn to when you realize you have lost so much. When you are under conviction. When you feel guilt. That is why things like drugs and alcohol are so popular. It has nothing to do with the fact that they were formerly in HH, and as I stated previously, I know firsthand, that many of those who left were the small percentage of wild, rebelious drug-using, drinking morons. |
seekeroftruth (seekeroftruth)
Junior Member
Username: seekeroftruth
Post Number: 36
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.162.151.91
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
|
I am not here to fight I want answers...I am not talking of the ones that did have the right to stay or not. I am talking about the child. So what you are also saying that just because they are morons, and they do not understand how much god loves we are to turn our backs. Also I was also speaking of the CHILD who's parents left and they had no CHOICE. I can not tell you how many young CHILDREN, not teenagers, nor in their 20's, I know that since they do not know how to deal with the real world or their friends from hh are no longer allowed to speak to them that are so hurt they turn to drugs and alcohol, so tell me are we supposed to forget about them? OR are they considered morons and idiots and do not deserve our love since they have such hurt feelings. |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 11:25 pm: |
|
I am having trouble reading what you have written because the puncuation/grammar is so strange.
I too feel terrible for the children whose parents left one of the only places where the truth was being preached and subjected them to the lies of the world. It is a sad situation. And there are consequences for regecting that truth that affect more than just the person who makes the decision. As with any lost person, what these people need is a true experience with God. What they do not need is pity, lies, excuses, and false doctrine. Obviously, from what you stated, you are referring to children raised by parents who left HH. So it would seem to me that the parents are liable for what happened, not HH since they left when the children were very small. I can only imagine the sadness and despair that would fill a little child's heart when all the wonderful things they knew at HH were taken away when their parents left. These children must have felt so deprived. When I was a child, the ultimate punishment was being denied the opportunity to go to a church event. When you take away the things of God from a vunerable child, it leaves a huge void in their lives. Many times, as a child grows into a teenager or young adult, they fill this void with things such as premarital sex, drugs or alcohol.
I feel that when parents do not overcome things such as hate and distain for authority, sadly they pass these same things on to their children. Then it is left to the children to overcome. But God is more than able to help anyone with an honest heart. I keep these children in my thoughts and prayers.
I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who HATE me, but showing love to a thousand generations of theose who love me and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
Exodus 20:5-6
May God continue to help us all, very_disturbed |
just_curious (just_curious)
Advanced Member
Username: just_curious
Post Number: 556
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.227.84.69
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 1:34 am: |
|
I have been reading these postings carefully, trying to keep an open mind and understand the opposing perspectives. You see, I am now on the outside of a group which still holds many of my loved ones. And the stories I read here of the purported effect the HH experience had on many echo the stories of many who grew up in my previous group. But this statement by a defender confirmed in my mind exactly what type of group HH is:
I too feel terrible for the children whose parents left one of the only places where the truth was being preached and subjected them to the lies of the world.
Oh, those self-righteous "places" where the "truth" is preached! Where "there may be others but we don't know of them." Where the "lies of the world" includes the teachings and fellowship of other Christians. Where if you leave their circle, you leave God. Yes, very_disturbed, I understand now. I know that language very, very well. |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 5:59 am: |
|
To clarify, I did not mean one of the only places period! I meant in these children's lives it probably was one of the only places. I only say that because I know of specific cases where this is absolutely true. And no, they totally respect the teachings of other Christians, and are in contact with people of many religions. May God help us all. Very Disturbed |
truth_hunter (truth_hunter)
Member
Username: truth_hunter
Post Number: 54
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.55.228.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
|
Just curious,
You are right on. HH taught from the pulpit that they were the only ones with the true Gospel or greatest light, although when asked about this on a more personal level, you get the back tracking, shields up answer of,
"To clarify, I did not mean one of the only places period! I meant in these children's lives it probably was one of the only places. I only say that because I know of specific cases where this is absolutely true. And no, they totally respect the teachings of other Christians, and are in contact with people of many religions."
Very disturbed keeps calling me liar, even to the point of saying,
"The statements in the preceding post are entirely untrue. Not only that, but many of the things "truth hunter" alleges are exactly oppposite from the truth.'
Let me explain how Very Disturbed can claim this. By believing what she(?) does doctrinally, and the fact that she has now stated that I am in bondage to the Devil and controlled by an evil spirit. Makes it quite clear how she can claim my facts and personal experiences are a complete and total lie. Since she believes the Father of lies controls me, nothing I say can be truth, in her eyes I have become the accuser of the brethren. There can be no truth in me.
HH teaches that facts are not necessarily truth. Since God is truth anything that is not of "God' or HH sanction is not truth, it CANNOT be truth.
Facts, according to their doctrine are not truth. The Fact that HH doesn't follow biblical doctrine doesn't matter.
The fact that the Elders children are the most out of control, doesn't make them unsuitable for leadership as 1Tim 3 says.
The Fact that Elders in HH cast curses on those who oppose them, Forbidding the congregation of HH to pray for those that oppose them, totally going against scripture.
Mt. 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you and pray for those who persecute you,
Mt. 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his
sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the
righteous and the unrighteous.
Doesn't make their doctrine in error.
The fact That one Elder told me a certain man had two days to respond to the word of God coming to him (from the Elder) to join HH, or the man would loose his chance for salvation forever, even though the man was already a strong Christian, doesn't put the Elder in the place of God.
How are we told we will know if a minister is not of Christ? By their fruit . I have not pulled accusations out of a hat against HH as you have against me very disturbed. I have sent you private emails asking if I can share with you what the Lord has done for me on a more personal level. But you respond by saying in a post ,
"I am willing to bet that there is more immorality and illicit behavior in your "liberated" circle, than ever in HH."
You, Very Disturbed are the one who is making unfounded statements, lumping us all together in a camp, I don't even know who most of the posters are, the ones making vulgar and hateful statements are most definitely not in my camp. But I would gladly accept them, for I was once like them and would still be if not by the grace of God. I would show them the love and forgiveness of Christ and not the condemnation and rejection show by those as yourself and HH. These hateful ones, the sinners are the ones that Christ died for, the ones who can see that they need a savior. Then when they have joined the camp that I am in, they will see that they are still sinners but saved by Grace, and will never elevate themselves above other Christians and claim to have the one true gospel. But will live a life guided by love, and the word of God, not swayed by every wind of doctrine, because they are rooted firmly in the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him alone.
May God have mercy on us sinners. Truth hunter |
seekeroftruth (seekeroftruth)
Junior Member
Username: seekeroftruth
Post Number: 37
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.162.151.91
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:08 pm: |
|
Very disturbed---About the grammer/punc. issue,I
did not realize I was being graded. |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 9:29 pm: |
|
To seekeroftruth and truth_hunter: I am sure you are hoping for an answer you can pick apart. However, I am on to you. You are truly intimidated by the truth. None of you have any idea who I really am. But I can assure you that I WAS there! And that is why the stories do not fly with me. I know the truth. And to be quite honest, most of the time it hurts me too. I don't always want to face it. Yes, I feel like a fool for some of my decisions. But I am trying to get the courage to learn to not only face the truth, but to stand up for it, to defend it. As the saying goes "Evil thrives where good men stand by". Not that I am all that "good", but God has given me many good things, and I wish to share them at every opportunity. I am unwilling to stand by and watch the Name of Jesus be misused and disgraced.
So you may as well direct your deceiving testimonies and allegations toward someone other than me. Anyone with any first-hand experience in HH, knows deep down in their heart (whether they like it or not), that what I have stated and testified to is nothing less than true.
There is no point trying to tear down my credibility in hopes that I will shut up so you all can rant and rave about HH. There needs to be two sides to this argument. I do not care what any of you think of me. I do not care how ridiculous you try to make me look. I know that I am telling the truth, and sooner or later I believe that will become evident.
As far as the last two postings are concerned, I feel it is not necessary to respond to the specifics. I already did previously. And it obviously hit a nerve, as the truth always does. May God help us all, Very disturbed |
the_general (the_general)
New member
Username: the_general
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.155.102.179
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
|
very_disturbed, your posts actually reveal a lot about your state of mind and your outlook on life in general. Reading all that you have written shows very clearly the effects of being raised in HH and how much influence HH still has upon your mind and heart. Of the many people that I have talked to who have left the fellowship and some who are still there,I can tell you that the stories all confirm each other. Yes even some who are still there can confirm that the testimonies written here are true. I hope that somehow your heart and mind will clear and you are able to see reality for what it is.
Also your statement about not standing by and watching the name of Jesus be misused and disgraced, shows how much you still equate the fellowship and leadership of HH with the name of Jesus, since nobody here is tearing down the name of Jesus but rather are trying to vindicate the name of Jesus by showing how HH is misusing it.
(Message edited by the_general on May 18, 2005) |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
New member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 25
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 12:23 pm: |
|
Hi general, May I have a chance to respond to your post?
Yes, I will agree with you when you say that the things I learned in HH still have a great effect on my life. I do not see that as a bad thing, in fact I value what they gave me. I do not think I would have had much sucess in my job or my relationships if it were not for what I was taught there. Since I realize how much good HH invested in me, I see no reason to tear them down. I feel no bitterness. Even though now I live a completely different lifestyle than them, I remember them with much respect. How can you call that a bad thing.
To me they were family. Every family has its problems, but how would you like it if you came across a site devoted to tearing down and "revealing" your family? I happen to disagree with you when you say that HH is tearing down the Name of Jesus. They are willing to put down their ego, their "public image", to live their lives the way they feel honors Jesus. Whether you feel they are right or wrong, please see that they strive to do what is right and good. They hate sin, pride and self-righteousness so much that when they see it in someone else, they feel compelled to forget about what people may say, and they go and try to help that person. I do not see how backbiting and defaming honest, hardworking people is vindicating the name of Jesus. How come you are not working out your OWN salvation with fear and trembling as Philippians 2:12 talks about? It is unfair to tear down a group of people publically, whether they are right or wrong, without someone who represents them to bring up their view. And I DO NOT represent HH. I am not a member there. I only speak from my own feelings and experiences. Even our government does not prosecute rapists and murderers until they have legal defense present.
And no, I do not feel (as you implied), that I am a "victim of spiritual abuse). May God continue to help us all. Very disturbed} |
the_general (the_general)
Junior Member
Username: the_general
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.155.5.167
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:22 pm: |
|
Very_disturbed,Apparently you don't realize that HH is very, very concerned with thier public image.From my own experience, the meetings that I attended, the messages that were passed and the hand outs and books that were writen to instruct us on how to present an acceptable public face.I also think that it is very arrogant and proud on your part as well as ignorant to assume that I am not working out my own salvation.If I were like you, I would assume you were not working out your own salvation because you are defending a group that teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible.If you would read the gospels and epistles with an open mind you would see for yourself that the things HH teaches are not the truth of the Bible.
(Message edited by the_general on May 19, 2005)
(Message edited by the_general on May 19, 2005) |
very_disturbed (very_disturbed)
Junior Member
Username: very_disturbed
Post Number: 28
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 24.27.7.241
| | Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 5:49 pm: |
|
I read the gospels and epistles so that I would see for myself that what HH taught was not necesary for salvation. I thought there was a loophole and I wanted to find it. But because God is faithful, he showed me the truth, rather than what I wanted to hear. Then I appreciated what I was taught in HH, because in it God was giving me the keys to a beautiful life, filled with true peace and joy. I choose to be honest and admit my error. May God help us all.
Very Disturbed |
are_you_kidding
New member
Username: are_you_kidding
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 70.253.87.64
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 5:59 pm: |
|
Bump |
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1002
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.129.144
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
|
Just looking back over the thread...thinking how many at this time last year thought all was well in HH...tonight another story...the Lord will reveal HIS truth...
Quote:
Very_disturbed,Apparently you don't realize that HH is very, very concerned with thier public image.From my own experience, the meetings that I attended, the messages that were passed and the hand outs and books that were writen to instruct us on how to present an acceptable public face.I also think that it is very arrogant and proud on your part as well as ignorant to assume that I am not working out my own salvation.If I were like you, I would assume you were not working out your own salvation because you are defending a group that teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible.If you would read the gospels and epistles with an open mind you would see for yourself that the things HH teaches are not the truth of the Bible.
How true...thanks.. |
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1004
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.129.144
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 10:19 pm: |
|
Just looking back over the thread...thinking how many at this time last year thought all was well in HH...tonight another story...the Lord will reveal HIS truth...
Quote:
Very_disturbed,Apparently you don't realize that HH is very, very concerned with thier public image.From my own experience, the meetings that I attended, the messages that were passed and the hand outs and books that were writen to instruct us on how to present an acceptable public face.I also think that it is very arrogant and proud on your part as well as ignorant to assume that I am not working out my own salvation.If I were like you, I would assume you were not working out your own salvation because you are defending a group that teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible.If you would read the gospels and epistles with an open mind you would see for yourself that the things HH teaches are not the truth of the Bible.
How true...thanks.. |
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1005
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.129.144
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 10:41 pm: |
|
I am wondering can anone answer these things:
Let's say a long time widow with children and a long time widower were innocently keeping company or dating while in HH. What would happen if the leaders had not first given their permission and they found out about it? What discipline would they receive? Rephrase that: What discipline DID they receive?
How many sneak off to see even a wholesome movie, or read a newspaper, or listen to Christian radio, or watch the election returns, and don't dare tell anyone? How many have been tattled on for doing these things? One brother was ministered to for drinking a regular cola and was told he was going against the pattern because of deeper spiritual issues.
Has a birth of a child with deformities been blamed on the father's poor standards in the way he did business? Was it announced in front of the whole church? Will the child grow up always "knowing" his/her deformity is her father's fault?
How many miscarriages and hard birth labors have been used to place guilt on the mother for pride or self-righteousness or rebellion against authority, or simply a lack of faith?
How many car accidents have happened "because of sin" like pride or such in another family members life, or simply because they left the fellowship? How many have been told directly or indirectly that their family will die in a car accident or some other way if they leave or have left?
How many young men or boys have been accused of having the evil spirit of the Greek god and want to kill their father so they can nurse at their mother’s breasts eternally? How many other evil spirits of Greek gods have they been accused of? What's the big deal with the Greek God's anyway? (This was just starting when we were leaving.) One young man told me knew well the names and character traits of the Greek God's; more than he knew about US History.
foreverhis
Intermediate Member
Username: foreverhis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How many children and young adults have faced solitary confinement, (even from their siblings,) for a weeks or months because they were not breaking, or confessing an unproven sin, or "not moving forward?" The call it "disfellowshiping."
We aren't talking about sending them to their room for a day ok? We are talking LONG periods of time. (Remember solitary confinement is saved for or nation's most hardened criminals.) Yet I was told by a long time member to "disfellowship" my son and keep him in his room, alone, even for meals, not allowed to talk to anyone in order to break his foolishness. She told me it was a fellowship pattern of child discipline that she used. (She knew the offence my child had done and said it was very serious.) I did it just that one time and the results were devastating.
What foolishness had my little boy done? He had repeated a joke he saw another fellowship boy do to him. He had said to another child, "Smell this!" then bent over and toward the child and released gas. For this I sent my little boy to his room. like I was told to with no music, no books, just to sit on his bed 24 hours a day for 14 days except with permission to use the bathroom... for two weeks, to think about what he had done.
The physiological effects were devastating. But you can bet my son walk on eggshells and became a "good little boy." I surely had installed a fear of foolishness in his heart. He stopped acting like a child in many ways, but had become so fearful and unsure of all he did. It was weeks before he even talked normal. It destroyed our relationship with him for years. |
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1006
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.129.144
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
|
Thank God I promised Him, the day I let my child out of his room and saw the harm, to never use that discipline again even if it was a fellowship pattern. I have since asked God's and my son's forgiveness many times. I feel it is the worse thing I ever did to anyone, (and I did it to my own child!) I have shared this story with other ex-members who grew up in HH. It was a too common experience for them. I pray none of them repeat it with their own children.
foreverhis
Intermediate Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 217
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 69.176.48.179
Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 8:45 pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I pray for those that experience the unfounded extreme guilt, fear, and hopelessness. I pray that no more mothers will loose confidence in the ability and power of God to help even them be good mothers. I pray for the mothers, that they don't experience depression or being overwhelmed, that they will get help even if it means being dis-fellowshipped. I pray that no more of them will attempt to take their lives and the lives of their children.
Many mothers cried on my shoulder, (they know who they are.) They knew I would never tattle on them. I didn't point my finger in their face and yell, "Where is your faith?" when they were tired. I just offered my shoulder and tried to encourage them.
There were many unspoken words too. We knew what it was like to be pregnant with our fifth child in six years time. We never had to say anything. The guilt we felt for not be as excited about it as our husbands were... the miscarriages we blamed ourselves for, thinking maybe because we were not thankful enough or excited enough for yet another pregnancy... words we dare not speak to each other but knew we understood. We understood our guilt and our silent repentance.
Moriah: God sees. (The middle name of my fifth child.) He sees it all. His judgments are Holy. They are perfect. So I thank Him for His mercy and grace.
Forever His |
dowen
Advanced Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 672
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 67.9.93.81
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 11:01 pm: |
|
It's all HH's fault....bwahhahahahah....blubber blubber blubber....this Church told me to do it, so I did...I was under mind control.....booohooo....I was a good person until HH corrupted me....blubber blubber blubber.
What in the world has happened to personal responsibility? What has happened to owning up to ones own shortcomings?
I spent the ten most formative years of my life at HH. Never once was I banished to my room for passing gas or anything of the sort. I was punished, don't get me wrong, but never for something I didn't deserve...come to think of it, I deserved much more punishment than I ever received.... .
Even so, I feel I am a well adjusted young man, enjoying life, and lovin' livin'....roflol.
If any of you doubt me, then visit a certain little shop in Central Texas.
God bless you all,
I will likely be absent for awhile.
DOwen. |
praxaluh
Intermediate Member
Username: praxaluh
Post Number: 483
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 24.193.219.212
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 12:58 am: |
|
Thanks for sharing, Daniel. Your words ring clear and sure. Enjoy your time away, and may you be strengthened in Jesus Christ.
Shalom,
Praxaluh |
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.106.178
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 8:11 am: |
|
Prax...how can you as a man of God (?) keeping urging people into something you yourself do not know what is really going on there?
It is ok that you have a vision for community, BUT I cannot believe you know what I personally know about HH...
I understand why Daniel takes up for them...But your posts would seem you are an elder from there not a person that lives hundreds of miles away and really believes a different doctrine than they do...
Please, Prax be careful what you recomend...your words can come home... |
foreverhis
Intermediate Member
Username: foreverhis
Post Number: 227
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 12.162.187.155
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 4:47 pm: |
|
I HAVE taken responsibility...Like I said:
"...I have since asked God's and my son's forgiveness many times. I feel it is the worse thing I ever did to anyone, (and I did it to my own child!)"
But I was not the only one responsible. I was told it was an HH pattern, by a LONG time member. She knew the offence. I was a young mother trusting in a pattern laid out by "Jesus in the Flesh." I thought I was walking in obedience to Christ.
I was wrong on many things. I am guilty of many things. One of them was believing HH was Jesus in the flesh and that the patterns were "Temple Patterns" that would bear fruit in the lives of my children. Like a Nazi, I am guilty of following man instead of God, His word, and my God given conscience. |
missionary_lady
Senior Member
Username: missionary_lady
Post Number: 1029
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 200.147.14.77
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 6:16 pm: |
|
Yes, I read a Temple Patterns....
Patterns for even how to clean the guest house, how to make the beds...how to clean...
Temple Patterns ...How in the world could anything less than a cult make up lists, and lists of how to do everything... |
dowen
Advanced Member
Username: dowen
Post Number: 786
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 24.153.236.230
| | Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
|
... |
|
