WHY WAS HOBART FREEMAN/FAITH ASSEMBLY...

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Author Message   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 151.203.34.225 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 9:43 pm:        1.) Listen to the tapes. Problem - no one should worship man and no one did. It would be idolatry. Freeman has always said that he is a vessel, a hose. He is a 1 Corinthians 1 Christian.....the foolish, the weak, the base and despised...so that no flesh shall glory in His sight. Also....you cannot find the teaching of total faith, deliverance, and the deeper life in the spirit found in most churches. Examine the churches yourself and compare them with these messages. The messages in the churches do not line up with scripture in all ways. 2.) Pray to the Lord and let the Lord show you that. Instead of getting everyone else's opinion, why not ask God. His opinion counts more than mine. Mark   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 221.191.148.196 Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 9:48 pm:        Dave, Please see my post on the other page.   micah (micah) Member Username: micah Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.75.86 Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 2:28 am:        wow, its good to know there are more people out there that think like me!! I grew up in fa and I have alot of mixed feelings about it, I see your point dave, your post where you listed what was right and wrong about fa was right on. could not have said it better myself. I think that it is sooooooo ironic that he died the way he did, he could have been treated for diabetes and lived (even though no one can prove that he actually had diabetes because he never went to the doctor, but absolutely ALL the simptoms pointed to that) And I liked your point about the mechanic, I think that if you get a scrape on your knee when you fall off your bike at the age of six and your mother cleans the wound and puts a bandage on it the same as when you are 16 and you lay your dirt bike down into a tree and you go to the ER and get a few stiches to close the wound.... whats the difference? And to think that the one person who believed and had the most faith....died.   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 221.191.148.196 Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 9:59 pm:        Just like Dave, I got a relative that wont let go, and I have accepted the fact that this person will die with their beliefs and afflictions. Once you accept it and better yourself, you can see it for what it really is. The best thing for me, I have found, is to stay away from it. It may seem selfish, but the alternative is to become subject to that persons beliefs and rules, and get all wacked inside. There are no hard and fast rules in life, this I have found. FA teachings created a relegious junkie out of alot of people and this complicated many things for some of us. You can stay around it and suffer inside, or move away and get a release from it, but the person still in it wants your help. For me, its a very selfish belief system. It used to really make me mad, outraged, to hear someone like Tomax or Cougar say, "well, it didnt affect me" but I understand now that these people didnt have to suffer under it, at least not as much as others, and are probally not conected to it as I am to this day. These people are naive and if a new Freeman popped up tommorow, they would drop everything and follow him. They never let go inside.   duncan (duncan) Member Username: duncan Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 10:50 am:        Hello, everyone. It has been several weeks since I have posted, so I thought I would weigh in for a moment. I have thoroughly enjoyed all the posts over the last month. There have been many thought-provoking conversations that have caused me to dig deep to determine my own values and beliefs. I have tried not to discount everything from FA, just because I don't agree with a few things. David, I wasn't sure what to think of you at first, so I am glad I waited a while before I posted. You have had some great posts, and I sense that your heart is in the right place. As such, I thought I might try to answer your original two questions at the top of this thread. To begin my comments, let me say that I consider myself a very conservative Christian, and I try to interpret the Bible as literal as possible. I attend a conservative Baptist church, so I am not still part of a charismatic church (although I do not discount spiritual gifts, like tongues). After searching deep within myself, I have come to the conclusion that FA was special to me simply because I was there during my childhood. I am a very nostalgic person, and remember the past with fondness. It is similar to my taste in music. I like to listen to the 80's station on my XM radio, simple because it reminds me of my childhood. Unlike some people, I had a pleasant childhood (although there were some things I wasn't allowed to do). I still have some great friends that are former FA members. What I'm trying to say is that it is possible that I could have the same memories had I attended a Methodist or Baptist church as a child. It just so happens that I attended FA. On the other side of that coin, I did learn a lot about the Word of God, whether consciously or subconsciously. I am grateful for what I learned. Yes, people needlessly died because of the teaching of divine healing, but that was only one small part of the teaching. However, given the results of that part of the teaching, it has overshadowed anything else that may have been taught. FA was an "all or nothing" church. You either agreed 100%, or you might as well agree with nothing. As an adult, I have learned that I will never agree 100% with any church. God has blessed me with a church, however, that I do agree with about 90% of what is taught. The other 10%, in my opinion, are minor issues that I do not consider "Kingdom" issues. Just a few thoughts from an ol' southern boy! Have a great day all!   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 221.191.148.196 Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 8:39 pm:        Like I said before, Cougar and Tomax and their kind are only here to support FA. They come around with emails that say they arent, but when you read cougars post above this one, it clearly shows his nostalgic feelings for FA. As far as what anyone thinks or says about me, I gave up caring about that a long time ago.   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 221.191.148.196 Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:33 am:        I dont neccessarly agree with David on all what he said in his lattest post. I dont belive Freeman felt he was in a corner, he actually belived what he taught and when people were dying it was a lack of faith. He didnt feel threatned by outside authority. This is what I remeber from the FA books and tapes. It was the "strong" word and the deeper life in the spirit. I dont feel it was a lack of leadership skills or negative traits surfacing. Actually he stood his ground quite well and there have been outside critics of the faith healing movement that actually admire him for it. It was a message he really belived in and it could be convincing. This is where the cult mentality began to take hold. Nobody put Freeman in his position of authority, he put himself there. I think your on the wrong track with "Freeman didnt have the skills to see a proper solution." His "solution" was God and his word, as Freem belived/interpreted it. In Freemans eyes, he had done no wrongs. As far as Cougars ridiculous lattest post, Im not going to even bother reading it. With you its like this, you get defensive with anything I have to say about your affection for FA, and tell us that your not defending FA then you come back around latter in other post and start being nostalgic about FA.   micah (micah) Member Username: micah Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.75.86 Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:52 pm:        Is it at all possible to have a conversation about fa without people gettin all up on each other? I wonder why that is? I have been following the different threads and stuff on here and it always amazes me how quick the conversation can turn hostile, and that goes for both sides. I guess it just hits a little too close to home for all of us sometimes. I dont think its a bad thing though, I enjoy a debate, as long as it stays logical, personal attacks are too easy. But anyhow I think that dave had a few questions worth me wasting my time to add my dime that no one really gives a rip about so here goes. 1 as to freeman being responsible, every person is given a free will, if you dont go to the doctor and use ointment when your 'roids flare up you will be in pain when you sit. Clearly your own fault. On the other hand to whom much is given much is required. Hobie was given 2 to 3000 people to pastor and I think that he was responsible for what he taught and how he said things. In fact I know he was because thats part of the job of being a pastor. This is where things get interesting, you have a guy with polio teaching and believing that God was obligated to heal him, and he died, right along side of the people that followed him, and I know that he did not go easy. Anyone that knows anything about the circumstances surrounding his death will tell you that. I think that he believed right up till the very end that God would heal him. too bad everyone has an experation date stamped on thier forhead eh? I hate that. so I think both sides are too blame, if a donkey tells another donkey to jump into the grand canyon because the bible says that god will give you wings to soar like an eagle and the donkey jumps to his death, who is to blame? the dumb ass that jumped or the dumb ass that really believed he should try and persuade all the other dumb asses in the world to jump because it was the only true way? I think its both, I cant see it any other way. 2 I think were gettin a little deep here, if hobie was right than that would have made the bible wrong. Or the bible would be different and i would be hindu. the jury is always out on speculations. 3 all the suffering, what suffering? are you telling me that anyone that even so much as had a cold attended fa? I dont recieve you, you are missinformed and I rebuke your self,,, or something high and haughty like that. I think everyone suffered to some extent, Im still suffering because im wasting a friday night sitting in front of my computer reading and writing about it. (my own fault) (btw) Everyone suffers and everyone dies, good people and bad people. while it is hard to see good people suffer (like your aunt) you have to let them make thier own choices and believe what they want, thats the american way, freedom baby. Its hard and it sucks and it hurts you too in the meantime but we cannot control others decisions, even when they decide to do us harm, in whatever way. The time to take action is when the person is harming a defenceless human being, like a child or something. and like you said, she thinks she has it all figured out, and you cannot tell anything new to someone that knows it all.   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 219.165.152.118 Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 5:11 am:        I dont see how I am "getting up into anybody" alot of what people post here doesnt make any sense to me, so I try to untangle it, and I expect hateful retorts, its only natural, doesnt bother me. With human nature, especialy hard headed ones, its the only way to get to the heart of the issue. I see Cougar referencing my childhood and bitterness again, and me blaming all thats wrong in my life on FA...lol. Actually I got this far in life from putting distance from it, and the more distance and time you put to it, the more clearer you can see it. Im not bitter about FA, I have experienced many other things in my life. However, I can clearly see that FA was a cult and as a kid I had no voice to speak against. Well now I do. I see clearly what Cougar and Tomax are, they dont know what side of the fence to stand on. They would like for people like me to be out of their way or agree with them. Well its not happening here. As far as you dismissing what people might of went through as a kid, Im know Im not the only one who disagrees with you because I have received emails from people who are truly messed up because of FA teachings. If your all fine and dandy and nostalgic about your Freemanite days, then okie dokie, but your in the way of us who arent. And for mr. dave, all you have to do is google hobart freeman and you can find his name included with several other cult personalities and the writer usually ends with a phrase about how they respected the FA following and Freeman because they were true to their beliefs. I have seen it at least twice. As far as Cougar, you ask me to answer questions about "when did you say this or that". Im not getting into a debate with you, to be honest, you cant seem to articulate what you are feeling or what you want to say or where you stand. Your on both sides of the fence.   micah (micah) Member Username: micah Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.75.86 Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 2:10 pm:        is it possible to turn a negative into a positve? I have had alot of negative experiences in my life and I can do one if two things, be a victim or a survivor. So to healed, whats up with you? what side of the fence are you on? your screen-name suggests that you have had healing in this area of your life, but your words sometimes lead others to believe that you have not. for example: "If your all fine and dandy and nostalgic about your Freemanite days, then okie dokie, but your in the way of us who arent." It seems to be a mixed message, I have no problem with you either way. I just dont see quite where you are coming from. All I know is that im in the same f'n boat as you. Just a kid that had no voice and even if I did have a voice at the time I wouldnt have said anything because I didnt have the intellect to know any better. After all I was just a kid. Why do you think that I simply dismiss what I went through as a kid growing up in that f'ing up environment? just because I choose to make the best of it now? Is that not what you are trying to do also? so where are you coming from? I grew up in that mess and I had wounds that have been healed but i still have the scars. but the scars dont hurt, they just remind me of the wound and remind me that it is a part of who I am today. I sometimes get angry about it when I hear people trying to defend what they did and how they think but it does no good and I have to go on. Im over it so I dont have to let it eat me. So thats where im at, what about you? even you would have to say that you took something positive away from the whole experience, even if it is only the fact that you learned how not to be. right? or not?   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.221.81.187 Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 1:01 am:        your missing the whole point completely, filtering what I said through your own experiences and responding likewise. Im not here to make friends or fellowship. My position is that the FA experience was a cult and as for me, there was nothing positive that came from it as I still have relatives in it to this day. It might of given that person a sense of hope, maybe thats a positive attribute for them, but as for me, there isnt anything I can think of that was positive. But Im speaking for me, not for you. In the process of growing up, everyone has to struggle to find themselves, where they belong, who they are, etc. but the FA indoctrination severly limited that process. Eventually everyone gets things figured out, but intentionlay or unintentionaly, FA got in the way of all that. Now I know that some here will jump up and say "look at me! Im ok!" Well Im not so naive to say that FA is responsible for all things gone wrong, their are other factors like personalities etc to consider, but FA was the main vehicle behind the abuse that went on, it was the green light that allowed it or promoted it. I saw many miserable things, sad things, nobody here will can take that away or disqualify that, but I know there were other factors to consider besides FA. However in a "normal" church or organization, things would not been allowed to escalate to the point they had. I guess I could say a positive or good thing that might have come out of it is that when its all said and done, I am pretty much independant, resolute, and I stay quiet alot, I have a reserve about me. But all this came at a price, there was alot of damage. Im not like you, Im not looking for "positive" things that came from it, there is no need to be searching, search for what? This is where I am different from you. I wanna deal with it and be stronger. Actually I am done with it, but I can say I wasnt never a part of it, because hey I had to listen the that garbage growing up. Because I still know people in it, they are there to throw their line and try to reel you in, Im tired of battling with them. Im not looking for any sympathy here. I speak for the people that are like me, and Im sure there are a few out there.   micah (micah) Member Username: micah Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 12.207.75.86 Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 1:45 am:        well i speak for people that are like me too, people that grew up in fa and are moving on with thier lives and dont resent those that did them harm. people that can realize the situation and say that it was messed up and that was then and this is now, so how do I live my life? what do I do? was that true christianity? what does it mean to be a true christian? That is where im at. I dont dissagree with you about it being a cult, ive done some research on cults and fa had alot of the characteristics that cults commonly have. that being said it doesnt change the fact that there is a god and there is a way to live your life if you want to follow him and that does not include the type of behavior that you found in fa years ago. I dont know if that is where you are at and im not trying to impose my own experience on you, I think we have alot in common but I have not given up on god. have you? do you believe that what you experienced at fa was the true god? or do you think that the idea of being a christian is more like what jesus did, like turning water into wine at a four day wedding feast where you know people were getting hammered? Just being real and showing love to those that were considered geeks and nerds and condemned and unclean. The whores and tax collectors are the ones he loved, how does that fit into the fa idea of being "unequaly yoked"? So have you given up on god?   healed (healed) Junior Member Username: healed Post Number: 48 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 221.191.148.196 Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 9:17 pm:        This is another topic that I see here alot, "have you given up on God?" "What is there to take from what we learned at FA"? These kind of questions come up often. Well I usually dont respond to these questions as this is not something I have an issue with. Since I was exposed to the more extreme side of Christianity, the fringes, I tend to stay away from it. I dont consider myself an atheist, I dont know its something Ill work out latter. Like I said before, I saw alot of misery and suffering that came at the cost of "Gods promises". An example is when a person uses common sense and takes antiboitics for a severe infection, they latter feel guilty for it and are made to feel they have turned their back on God. This is very dangerous teaching. As for me, right now, I dont dwell on it very much.   duncan (duncan) Member Username: duncan Post Number: 78 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 9:24 am:        I posted this on another thread, before I noticed that the title of this thread was about what made FA special. As such, I am re-posting my comments. I apologize in advance for the duplication. I just thought about something that was very good about FA. I really liked the worship services. I liked the way that the song leader didn't come up with a prepared order of service, but he let the Holy Spirit lead him. We had a mixture of slower songs and more upbeat songs. I also liked the testimony portion of the service. It was nice to hear people get up and talk about what the Lord had done for them. I even got up as a an 8 or 9 year old and gave a testimony. Somewhere around 1982 or 1983, the worship services got a little more chaotic. People started dancing in the aisles, or even running them. People were running into each other. Also, we had a younger drum player, who I don't believe was saved. He would always try to turn the music into rock. I heard that he became pretty wild after they left FA. All that being said, I still miss those worship services. I don't know of too many churches that will let the Holy Spirit lead that way.   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.243.13.242 Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 4:10 pm:        Duncan, I am blessed to have a couple of tapes from those worship services, dating I think to 1978. I also have one from the 1981 Indiana Faith Seminar that is awesome too. I would be willing to send you copies if you are interested. yes indeed you are right about not having a preplanned program of songs as you see in most churches today. I like listening to spontaneous worship, as led by the Holy Spirit. I have been to churches that had both worship styles. It gives the opportunity for the Holy Spirit to have His way and not put Him in a box. Mark   duncan (duncan) Member Username: duncan Post Number: 80 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 11:20 am:        Mark, Thanks for the response. If I am remembering correctly, the tapes from the 1981 seminar in Indianapolis had dark red on the labels. If that is the case, I can remember listening to one. If you have a way to convert from tape to cd, that would be wonderful. My car only plays cds. Thanks again, Duncan   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.203.88.100 Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 9:02 am:        Hi Duncan My copies are on a silver label but they are probably the same. I will try to make you a CD of it and let you know when it is completed. Lord bless Mark   hombre (hombre) New member Username: hombre Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 5:16 pm:        Cool. Seminar tapes. I've got a few from the early 80's too. Got Carl Seitz too. In process of digitizing them fer meself. BTW: Remember that woman from England with that wonderful operatic voice? ....for the life that we now live, we live in Him, and the glory that is His, give unto Him, ...... for the power in His name, the Word that never changes or fails, in Jesus blood is all you'll ever need..... ... still as anointed and wonderful as it was back then.   duncan (duncan) Member Username: duncan Post Number: 81 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 5:49 pm:        Hombre, It's been a while since I have posted, but I want to thank you for bringing some meaningful discussion back to the board. Whether we are all in agreement or not, it has been very thought-provoking. I do remember the lady from England. Her name was Lois Buckley. She was a great friend of our family, and occasionally traveled on vacation with us. Once, my dad even made a tape of her singing songs. She and my brother were good friends, because he played the organ at FA and she would occasionally play the piano when she was in the country. Thanks for bringing back some good memories. I have been following all the boards as I have Factnet direct all new posts to my email. However, I have been busy traveling, so I haven't had time to respond. In fact, I am at work right now trying to catch up. When I have some time, I will try to whip up a quick diatribe. Let me ask two quick questions while I'm thinking about it: 1) Which fellowship did you attend? We're you in Indiana, or somewhere else? 2) You mentioned your ex-wife. Are you divorced due to FA? I don't mean to pry, I was just curious. If you would like a quid pro quo, feel free to ask me anything. I am an open book. Thanks again for bring some life back to the board. Have a blessed day! Duncan   hombre (hombre) New member Username: hombre Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 8:58 pm:        1. Fellowship - Indianapolis, Friday Nights, Steve Hill. - Zionsville, Kent Grimes - Whiteland occasionaly, Jeff Barnett. - Automatics: Hobart , Steve, Bruce. 2. One could say that....I would be more inclined to say that once we left the fellowship, nature took its' course. The Church was definitely a element of glue that actually helped a difficult marriage survive. Without it, it was pretty much just a matter of time. A lot of VERY painful memories there, and since then, about 15 years ago, I would liken my life to Odysseus; a lot of very bizarre places I've seen. Nevertheless, The Lord has always been my secret hiding place, to escape to. He has never failed me, nor has He given up on me. Now, I have a very sweet Christian girlfriend, who has been saved since she was a kid, and has an absolutely wonderful, childlike faith, and obedience to Gods' Word. She has been an absolute Godsend to me. You know what's really interesting?.......a couple of years ago, I started getting kind of.....well.......actually seeing things in the same way that I did when I was attending FA meetings, only a lot stronger. This is how I would explain it. The seed was planted years ago. It laid dormant and buried. ..... then one day, it kind of just sprouted and took off. I see things in a far more profound and meaningful way now, than I ever did back then, and the reality of God, is overwhelming at times. I think that, looking back, all the study and preparation was good, however, you can't rush the process of maturity. It takes a long time. Here is also an interesting thought. After the resurrection, Peter apparently had a lot of faith. I mean, have you raised the dead yet? Yet, in spite of this enormous faith, the Lord had to make it very clear to him ( 3x ~ coincidence?, I think not ) that He was now accepting Gentile applications. Could it be, my friend, that the reason it all fell apart, was to simply scatter us with the message, and instead we have all kind of just sat around doing nothing, but looking at the big question marks above our head, and letting the world and the tares from our midst beat us into submission? I'm kinda thinkin'.....yep. Is it not true that we have more knowledge than the majority of Christendom? I mean to say, my brother, we ARE deep. I am not even going to qualify that statement, it's just true, comparatively speaking, that is. The rest of the church, is still conflicted about whether the promises of God are for today or not, or whether they can cut loose in worship, and sing songs that don't sound like funeral dirges, etc., etc. Perhaps we can help them, if we are willing to meet them where they are at.   cougarxr72 (cougarxr72) Member Username: cougarxr72 Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.68.40.62 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:46 am:        Hombre, Duncan and I were just having this conversation offline about a week ago. I agree with you in that I think that the church was allowed to splinter so that it would do just what you said, scatter with the message. Some people have taken longer to bring the message than others, but everything happens in his time. It is not arrogant to say that FA members had more knowledge than a majority of modern day Christendom. We were schooled for years in the bible, no matter how far removed we may get from it, the knowledge remains. It amazes me how many scriptures and concepts that I remember as an adult that were learned there as a child and I haven't been to church regularly in 15 years. Simply because I can't stand the duldrums of many modern day churches. I don't like going to a funeral procession every Sunday morning. Have a good day   hombre (hombre) New member Username: hombre Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:04 pm:        Cougar, I have been attending a 'Evangelical Bible Church', for a little over a year now. The pastor is a really nice guy that is degreed from Moody. He has a tremendous amount of stuff right, but has trouble with Charismatics who view God as a materials warehouse...i.e. grab what you need and run. Or, at least, as a 'way' to obtain what YOU want. Selfishness without substance or real relationship. That is not to say that he does not believe that the promises are for today, quite the contrary, and he is absolutely thrilled when he has sent out e-mails to us to pray for individuals, and someone ends up healed, or whatever. The guy is really broken, and can hardly keep from weeping every week, because he is confronted so, by the presence of The Lord. Is that an act? I can say, absolutely not, as I have known this man personally for about 20 years now. He is trying to lead the following upward, but receives a lot of resistance from old timers and people who don't really appreciate the 'newer style of music' i.e. guitars, drums and songs that are not in the hymnal. Ha-ha! Thank God there is no HYMNAL! Fact is, though, these people ARE saved, some are filled with the Holy Spirit, and the common denominator is a desire to see what the Bible says, rather than a specific church doctrine. Yeah, they've got a long way to go, but so do I, and it is a good thing to be around other saved believers, than to be a mole at home. It is not a good thing to forsake the assembly of ourselves. It is a good thing to be with other believers, even if we all aren't 100% in agreement on minor issues. That is where the Lord has me for the time being, and He is working on me too within that context. In worship, many are quite timid, and it is difficult for me to let loose sometimes, due to their inhibitions affecting ME. Raising your arms in worship, is like waving a red flag wildly, and though there quite a few charismatics within it, for the most part, people are content to sing and then sit down. So anyway, the Lord has been encouraging me to cut loose, and so I have ...at least to a degree. I don't think they're quite ready for tongues interpretations yet, but hey? who knows? Don't want to limit the Lord. Maybe I'll end up ostracized. I can just see the look on their faces if the Lord gives me some prophesy. So anyway, this last week, I lift my arms up, while we are singing one of OURS: 'I love you, Lord', ...... and who cares,...... let 'em look...... I am getting showered with blessing, and anointing is falling on me, and it is returning to God through my voice and I can even feel the power coming out my hands. So when it's over, of course, I open my eyes, and of course, I am a spectacle, but you know what? The pastor gets up in front of everyone, and says: ' For the most part, none of you knows what it feels like to lift your hands in praise to the Lord, but it is wonderful. Let's sing that song again, and EVERYBODY, lift up your hands in worship, and let's really worship the Lord, I want to hear our voices fill this auditorium!' Well, that's just too cool. Maybe it's just little steps like these brothers and sisters, that the Lord will use to let us be guiding lights to our less fortunate brothers and sisters, who have never experienced or been taught what we have. First baby steps, then walking, and finally running the race that is set before us. Let us pray that we can be of some sort of service to the Lord, rather than simply being bookworms locked away in our monasteries.   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.221.78.22 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 7:33 am:        Maybe it's just little steps like these brothers and sisters, that the Lord will use to let us be guiding lights to our less fortunate brothers and sisters, who have never experienced or been taught what we have. ----------------------------------------------- Nice try. Lets just hope those "brothas and sistas" dont have to experience seeing a relative die in misery, dont have to go thru all kinds of hell just to comprise to one of those relatives beliefs, dont have to spend their childhood in a cult like enviroment etc etc.   hombre (hombre) New member Username: hombre Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 2:29 pm:        Quote: Nice try. Lets just hope those "brothas and sistas" dont have to experience seeing a relative die in misery, dont have to go thru all kinds of hell just to comprise to one of those relatives beliefs, dont have to spend their childhood in a cult like enviroment etc etc. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Well, I seem to sense a little bit of hostility, and perhaps a touch of racism here. Anyway, according to Webster, ( and that is who I am going to use here as a definer to the word ) A Cult is: '....a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious '. That would be actually every religion, I have ever seen or heard of. Ask any of 'em to produce scientific evidence of their belief system. Better send the goon squad in to rescue the priests and nuns. If that ain't the BIGGEST cult in the world, I don't know what is. BTW. Ever experienced seeing a loved one die at the hands of medical science? .... happens all the time, every day, day in and day out. I was married to a nurse. I have seen and heard multitudes of horror stories from that pavilion of progress. Time would fail to tell all of the failures related to fatigue, indifference, wrong prescription administrations, needless procedures caused by medical board licensing qualifications and/or doctor greed, and just general human error. A hospital is the last place I want to be. I'm not heartless, but people are soooooo deceived that put their trust in those places. It's just another chop shop. A'int no different than a auto body shop. Some things they can fix, some things they can't. Why aren't you out raising hell against those places? How many people have died under a surgeons scalpel? .... and yet you continue to dig up Hobart, for a scapegoat, when the responsibility for your behavior or beliefs, as well as your parents, rests with you. .... naysaying Hobart will never change Mark 16. What you have is not a problem with Hobart. You have a problem with the Bible. That is why I keep suggesting that people go back to the cross, and first, establish a relationship with THE LIVING CHRIST, and go from there. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. ~ 2 Ptr. 1: 2-9   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.108.107.8 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 10:25 pm:        The above post is just another classic example of a brainwashed Freemanite. You are able to excuse FA criminal activity and are able to spew scripture to back it up. The reason I speak out and attack idjoits like you is because now that I am an adult and no longer subject to brainwashing sessions, I can. You ask me an insane question that only a Freemanite could ask; "why arent you rasing hell against those places?" Never heard of a doctor that preached that wearing eyeglasses will keep you out of heaven...for starters.   hombre (hombre) New member Username: hombre Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 4.224.93.191 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 4:16 pm:        'brainwashed', 'excuser of criminal activity', 'idjoit' ( ?!!!??!?!?... I think you meant to say 'idiot' ), 'insane', ...what else would make you feel good to call me? BTW: ANY religious faith is quite insane. Prove the existence of anyones God to me, scientifically. .. and of course, it's back to demonizing Freeman again, instead of simply owning up to the fact that MULTITUDES die in hospitals EVERY DAY. BTW: I NEVER ONCE heard Hobart, Bruce or Steve say that someone would not go to heaven because they wear glasses, or they don't practice 'divine healing'. So, sorry, Healed, you're way off base there. Next. 'Criminal Activity'. Yes, I guess it's about time that you and your friends pulled out the guillotine. Man, are you full of venom or what? Again, I would say to you, Unhealed, that you need to go back to the cross, ask forgiveness, and let the Lord lead you into a life of love and fullness in Him, instead of bashing dead people, and accusing others of saying things they didn't. Have I yet said: 'Going to a doctor is a first class ticket to hell'? No. ... and you won't hear me say that either. I preach Jesus, and Him crucified for our sins, that you might be forgiven, and have new life in HIm. There are multitudes who believe that God supernaturally heals today, it is not only 'Freemanites', it is Evangelicals, Baptists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, and even Catholics. What your problem is, is a refusal to accept Christianity for what it is, and Hobart is your convenient whipping boy. Give it up already. You've got to get rid of this anger, before you are ever going forward in Christ. Hmmmm........ Can you say: 'Jesus Christ came in the flesh'?   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.47.131.185 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 9:17 pm:        Have I yet said: 'Going to a doctor is a first class ticket to hell'? Your such a classical Freemanite. Always covering your azz, just like they did. When a child is taken to the doctor by a concerned relative, then another relative finds out and has a fit because the child has been exposed to "drugs" and whacks the kid around for it..dont you see where this is unexcusable behavior? }   hombre (hombre) New member Username: hombre Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 4.224.93.47 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:04 am:        ... the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned. ~2 Cor. 2:14 Ok Unhealed, Here it is, laid out as simply as I can possibly make it. If you don't have the faith for supernatural healing, common sense says that you need to go to a doctor. Supernatural healing requires a great deal of understanding, faith and obedience, as well as a living relationship with the Lord. ...and yes, the responsibility is totally on everyones individual shoulders. Doctors simply require money. Now, it is my guess that, not only do you have a problem with divine healing, you also have a lot of other problems boiling under the surface. I continue to see non-acceptance of personal responsibility being preached here by you. Question: are you a lawyer? I fully doubt that you believe much of anything the Bible has to say. For example: 1. Evolutionist or creationist? 2. Gods promises, for today, or not? 3. The gifts of the Spirit, real or imagined? 4. Jesus Christ, historical figure or Messiah? I have not seen one iota of encouragement, understanding, or compassion from you towards anyone. All I see is this venomous attack mode, accompanied by hearsay evidence. There is no point in continuing this conversation with you. Bye.   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 70 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.108.115.150 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:30 pm:        There is no point in continuing this conversation with you _________________________________________________ Now thats when I know Ive accomplished something! Thats what I like to hear. No more of you trying to bait me, lure me in to your cult disguised as something blessed. Blessed my behind!   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.35.72.219 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:47 am:        Here it is, laid out as simply as I can possibly make it. If you don't have the faith for supernatural healing, common sense says that you need to go to a doctor. Supernatural healing requires a great deal of understanding, faith and obedience, as well as a living relationship with the Lord. ...and yes, the responsibility is totally on everyones individual shoulders. Doctors simply require money. Spoken like a true Freemanite. After all the years I spent around FA types, including a close relative, to this day I have never witnessed any kind of "supernatural" healing. Oh, but the FA supporter will say the Lord healed me of a headache! It was such a trail of my faith?!! Yeah right. It went away just like everybody elses does unless you got some kind of serious condition. Oh look! I broke my hand and the Lord healed it! But when Im looking down at your hand I see where it grew back crooked. If God was going to heal you it least it could of been healed right. Tonight my testimony is this: I was out swimming in the pool last week and guess what? I got bit by a venomous snake! But Im healed! After 3 days of near death and a limited amount of poision in your system, thats why your still here. I could go on and on. I think you got it all backwards. Beliving in supernatural healing requires a great deal of naivity and stupidity.   cougarxr72 (cougarxr72) Member Username: cougarxr72 Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.68.40.62 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 2:15 pm:        The examples you suggest go back to the common sense that we have hammered on forever. I get the impression from you that you don't believe God ever heals supernaturally. My question to you is if God doesn't answer peoples prayer for healing what makes you think he'd answer any other prayer for anything else? That logic just doesn't line up with scripture, which you don't believe anyway so it is a mute point. BTW headaches will go away without tylenol as well, that means tylenol doesn't work either.   hombre (hombre) Junior Member Username: hombre Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 7:03 pm:        Cougar. It doesn't matter what you say. He likes to be here and argue. He likes to have the last word on everything. He is suffering from a lack of affection, and desperately wants to be accepted. Whether he wants to admit it or not, we are his friends. He likes us. Smile, Unhealed, God loves you.   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.46.153.98 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:34 pm:        It doesn't matter what you say. He likes to be here and argue. He likes to have the last word on everything. He is suffering from a lack of affection, and desperately wants to be accepted. Whether he wants to admit it or not, we are his friends. He likes us. Smile, Unhealed, God loves you. _________________________________________________ The LAST thing I ever want, or need, is a friend who is a Freemanite. When Im laying out in the bed, suffering from intense pain, who is going to call for help? A Freemanite is going to pray like crazy until I lay there and die! Another one of your tatics to try and draw somebody into your BS. Your little honey trap. Two options when dealing with a FA type: Stay the hell away from them or pound them with common sense. I agree that option 1 works, but when you have a relative in the garbage, that makes it difficult. Hombre, yes I am smiliing, actually laughing. Ive seen it so many times, the way FA brainwased fanatics like you operate. I can read you like a book. Has any of your relatives suggest you see a deprogrammer?   hombre (hombre) Junior Member Username: hombre Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:32 am:        .... add paranoia to my previous list. I once heard a psychologist say, that the things we see in others that we don't like, are merely mirrored reflections of the things within ourselves we don't like. We recognize that these things are 'not good', yet it is easier for us to blame others than to accept the problem within ourselves and change. I recommend an intensive course of psychological therapy, with no less than 2 sessions per week, in addition to some positive group therapy, where you can have an outlet for your feelings of abandonment, rage, & need for attention, within a controlled environment. I am assuming that you live in Indiana. Here is a referral site where you can find the help you need. http://indianapsychologist.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=4 Best wishes for a complete recovery, Your friend, Hombre. (Message edited by Hombre on August 26, 2005)   healed (healed) Member Username: healed Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.224.179.23 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 12:04 pm:        spewing my soda all over myself laughing! In one breath your speaking of your affection for all things FA, including supernatural healing, Quote; "Time would fail to tell all of the failures related to fatigue, indifference, wrong prescription administrations, needless procedures caused by medical board licensing qualifications and/or doctor greed, and just general human error." Then you go and suggest I trust in the "arm of the flesh" and seek treatment from a psycologist. Nice contradiction there Hombre! I think you should stick to what you do best, being a fruitcake FA follower instead of an advisor.   cougarxr72 (cougarxr72) Member Username: cougarxr72 Post Number: 82 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.68.40.62 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 1:12 pm:        Hombre, if you want to continue discussing FA offline without the constant beratings of healed let me know. Duncan and I have had many email conversations offline about our experiences there and our opinions on what happened and what was right and what was wrong. You have stuck to your guns with Healed but he just is too bitter to see it. "then you go and suggest that I trust the arm of the flesh" You have said since your first post that you didn't have a problem with people going to the medical profession and that if they needed help and didn't believe that God could heal them, then that is what they should do. I don't think healed ever reads much of the posts or even tries to contemplate the point that is being made. Within the last week healed has contradicted something that has been said by you or me in just about every other post. If you don't have the same bitter attitude about FA as healed does then healed automatically goes into ridicule mode with the response. I have posted responses that have been in complete agreement with Healed on certain issues and just because I'm not completely negative and bitter about my experience at FA, healed continues to attack. If you are truly interested in having an actual discussion let me know and I'll give you my email address. I'm going to be signing off for awhile, this is an unproductive use of time.   hombre (hombre) Junior Member Username: hombre Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 4:19 pm:        __________________________________________________________ Quote: spewing my soda all over myself laughing! __________________________________________________________ Most excellent. You see, I am not quite your typical Freemanite, Un. I am glad that my smart aleck sense of humor was not lost. As Readers Digest would say: Humor is the best medicine. If you will remember, 'ol Hobart used to get some of his wisecracks there. It's is a little droll for my taste; nevertheless, if you like that brand, back issues are easily obtainable at almost every doctors office. Have you made your appointments yet?   drallen_wilson (drallen_wilson) New member Username: drallen_wilson Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.126.249.228 Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 12:02 pm:        What is going on in here? Let God be true and every man a liar. FOREVER O LORD YOUR WORD IS SETTLED IN HEAVEN.   hombre (hombre) Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 12:46 pm:        Drallen, You are a bit late to the table, so to speak. The comments you are reading, have a definite order, and have to be taken in context to one another. In order to see what's been going on here, you will need to backtrack and do a lot of investigative work. May I suggest a much better site for those interested in discussing the Word of God and Faith Assembly? http://www.overcomersonline.com   healed (healed) Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 108 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.47.92.213 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 4:34 am:        What I find interesting is that another Freeman has not risen to take the place of the original. I heard Steve Hill took over the church for awhile but gave it up. To me as a kid, I always knew Freeman was a whack job. Its beyond me how some folks continue to follow him. I have to applaud Steve Hill for going his own way, from his website I think he has a new message. Its just that there were so many of those folks who were so eager to be part of the FA ministry but after Freeman died they suddenly lost their way. Im guessing the effects of the mind control that Freeman had placed on everyone lost were suddenly gone, there was nothing more to fear.   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 164 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.23.166 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 5:13 am:        Nice touch healed. You and fivefoldeduprophet should become a tag team some day. Both are you are laden with silly delusions...only fiver is worse, if I can imagine that. Here you are spewing out your anger and venom against an anointed man of God. Shall I quote the false prophet's prophesy against you? Steve Hill has changed his message but he is off. He has rejected the teachings of the word of God and so has everyone else who left. I for one am glad to have received the teachings from FA. Though I am not a "Freemanite" I know that what he was taught was from the Scriptures. I am not a Freemanite, but a Berean...that checks things out with the word. After all, we are told to do so...to test the spirits. The scriptures say that "cocnerning the law a the testimony...if they speak not according to the word they have no light in them." Well, there was so much light at FA that you were blinded by it healed. So if you don't mind, please spew out your hatred somewhere else. That is why we all went to another board, where the love of Jesus resides. The posts over here is severely wanting for that, including yours.   hombre (hombre) Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 9:04 am:        2 Tim. 2: 3-4   sametoya (sametoya) New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.106.229.218 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 1:35 pm:        It’s not unusual for things to fall apart after a charismatic leader dies. They lead by projection of persona. They do not lead through sound administration with checks and balances. When they leave, things become a mere shadow of what once was. A few may hang on. But, even they don’t fully adhere to the original doctrine. For instance, Freeman supporters may now permit using ready made cake mixes, wearing running shoes or being involved in community sports. They may even (Dare I say it?) go to a doctor! Others, who need to be led and notoriety, may seek out another controversial leader to follow. Whatever the case, they can justify it all. Self rationalization prevents accurate perception. On this forum, we have individuals who get gratification from berating others. In less than 45 minutes of Healed’s 4:30 a.m. posting, she was called silly and deluded. Healed was accused of spewing anger, venom and hatred. Yet, love resides in the hearts of the ‘overcomers’. YEAH, RIGHT! I also read another dig at Michael. You’re chomping at the bit for him to return to the fray. You’re constantly checking FACTNet. Junky needs a fix. From what people have written, Id like to talk with their spouses (ex-spouses more likely). I bet their families have stories to tell.   israels_son (israels_son) New member Username: israels_son Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 2:01 pm:        sametoya (sametoya) New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 204.42.20.233 Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:40 pm: ________________________________________ ……………Like I said, you guys are addicted. The forum gives you something you need. But, it’s unhealthy. I’ve said my piece, bye. sametoya, Reading your past post I thought you just were going to have your say and leave? Seems like you have a little 'jones' of your own. Feeling superior are we?   sametoya (sametoya) New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.106.229.218 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 3:08 pm:        Israel, you are right. I don’t like to post very much. I don’t intend to be around very long. It’s all too familiar. But, it’s hard to read such mean spirited dribble and not refute it. Also, I’m kind’a hopin’ Michael can stay away. I can’t think of anything that would erk you guys more. So, I wrote my fifth post this morning. Since you thought it so clever to use my words against me, below is an excerpt from one of your five posts written on 02/24/06 to Michael, in the Mark1124 thread: “I saw you so clearly. Your face was covered with pustules like the kind that occur from the herpes virus. You were in such pain. The pustules were seeping and your face was covered with the putrid smell of the puss. It was awful to look at. The Lord said, "This is what happens when you exchange the natural use for the unnatural use.” (My guess is that your face was places that it shouldn’t have been.)” Would you be willing to take this post to your church reverend and ask his opinion? Do you honestly think he would commend you and have you read it before the congregation? As a Christian, are you proud of such wit? Does it make you feel like a superior overcomer?   sametoya (sametoya) New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 131.103.138.108 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 5:30 pm:        Israel, you’re right and I’m wrong! I just went back and quickly reviewed the Freeman forum from it’s beginning. I see now how at first it was people relating their experiences, good and bad. Then it became a hate-fest, with overcomers leading the way. This morning, I responded to Healed because it was the first post in a long time that discussed Hobart Freeman. It wasn’t just more ranting and raving. I also allowed myself to point out to Mark again how mean and redundant his posting was. Mark, I really understand where you are coming from in your 02/27/06 (5:35) posting in the Mark1124 thread. But, I have to stick by my gripe. It’s not healthy. Hey guy, I’m telling you something you already know! I don’t want to get into it with you Israel. I had no right to post again. It’s like I said in my first post, “You and your ignorant posts serve as a living testament to Freeman's screwed up cult.” Besides, I wouldn’t want to give you dreams about me!   israels_son (israels_son) New member Username: israels_son Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 5:55 pm:        Sorry you didn't like my dreams. Now you're making fun of me?   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 166 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.23.166 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 7:39 pm:        That's it! You made me do it. So here goes: Woe! unto you who have condemned Gods anointed Woe! unto you who have brought reproach upon the Holy Spirit Woe! unto you who have hurt the little children ,it would be better for you to have a mill stone hung around your necks and be thrown into a river. Just! as a tree that has grown strong and straight ,the sun shall be darkened in your sky and you shall reap your reward . Just! as a tree that grows near the water , you shall die and dry up ,and no water shall you receive. Your days shall be shortened and your lives to an end, you have grieved the Holy One and brought condemnation upon your self. The Love of many has waxed cold. Repent saith the Lord.   israels_son (israels_son) New member Username: israels_son Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 8:37 pm:        Dude, Whoooah!   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 169 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.23.166 Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 10:12 pm:        Since the prophesy worked so well against me, I thought it would work well with him. LOL. I just wonder if fivefoldeduprophetess would sue for copyright infringement.   healed (healed) Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.230.252.216 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 5:25 am:        sametoya thanks for the backup. Im not a she however but otherwise your right on the money. What I was saying before is that I can remeber all these guys going to Indiana because they had a "calling" to teach but after Freeman died all these clowns suddenly lost their way. They all went to Indiana to some classes or some trash and were annointed by Bro Freeman. Perhaps there is a gap I dont know about, like where some of them tried to lead but they all were fighting amoung each other. Anyway, there must of been a huge lot of mobile homes for sale as most of them had mobile homes so they could travel from body to body. I always wondered how they could afford those things, Im guessin their income from the services was tax free. As for Mark, he is a die harder Freemanite no matter what he calls himeslf. Praise God we are adults now and no longer have to be subject to extremeism from idiots like him and can think for ourselves.   healed (healed) Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.230.252.216 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 5:29 am:        sametoya thanks for the backup. Im not a she however but otherwise your right on the money. What I was saying before is that I can remeber all these guys going to Indiana because they had a "calling" to teach but after Freeman died all these clowns suddenly lost their way. They all went to Indiana to some classes or some trash and were annointed by Bro Freeman. Perhaps there is a gap I dont know about, like where some of them tried to lead but they all were fighting amoung each other. Anyway, there must of been a huge lot of mobile homes for sale as most of them had mobile homes so they could travel from body to body. I always wondered how they could afford those things, Im guessin their income from the services was tax free. As for Mark, he is a die harder Freemanite no matter what he calls himeslf. Praise God we are adults now and no longer have to be subject to extremeism from idiots like him and can think for ourselves.   israels_son (israels_son) Junior Member Username: israels_son Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 12:35 pm:        healed, I'm not your adversary. I'm also not a 'clown'. I understand your feelings against FA. I've had some myself, But let's not 'stoke' the fires of resentment. If you ask anybody, they'll tell you I'm not a real smart person. I've done some time in jail for stupid attempts like trying to steal cows from a farm dairy. I don't even want to go into that right now. Anyway, after a good therapeutic treatment and a good prison chaplain I’ve come to understand what the Lord God is trying to tell me. Sometimes I see dreams and visions. It upsets some people and on others it drives them away. But please don't call me a clown.   mark1124 (mark1124) Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 170 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.23.166 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 3:30 pm:        Anything you say, Bozo. Just kidding.   israels_son (israels_son) Junior Member Username: israels_son Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 3:50 pm:        Like I said I've got good therapeutic treatment but I wouldn't push it.   sametoya (sametoya) New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.106.229.218 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 4:08 pm:        Healed, I’m sorry ‘bout the gender pronoun. DOH! I don’t know anything about the ‘leaders training’. I do know of one family who returned to our town with their tails between their legs. It seems they were caught up in some of the deaths. They laid low and had nothing to say. People figured they were afraid they might be brought up on charges. Anyone who stands idly by while a child suffers and dies SHOULD have charges leveled against them. If they’re so sure they have the power to heal, then they assume the responsibility. Believing in the Good Lord doesn’t disconnect our brains or our hearts. The opposite is true. Christians should have open minds and hearts to the needs of others. Sin is selfishness. We all suffer from it. Cults are attractive for all kinds of reasons. People like to feel special, exclusive, powerful, superior, so forth and so on. Israel, you’re only a clown if that’s what you want to be. Basically, you’re a human being that makes mistakes, just like the rest of us. I can’t say I’ve ever been tempted to steal cows. However, I did once steal thirty dozen eggs from a grocery store. It was Halloween. We were goin’ eggin’. I didn’t want to run out of ammo.   israels_son (israels_son) Junior Member Username: israels_son Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 4:17 pm:        I've been down your road a time or two. It was a heck of a lotta fun wasn't it? Sorry, shouldn't have asked that question.   israels_son (israels_son) Junior Member Username: israels_son Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 4:42 pm:        When I was spending time in the joint I started to see the truth. I used to beat people senseless when they made fun of me. Now I laugh with them. In the old days when people like 'sametoya' would call me ignorant I would find out where they lived and go over to their house and beat them over and over until the police came. I don’t do that anymore. Now with the Lord in my life and a lot of good counseling from my Pastor, I can get over that temptation. However sametoya started to get my backside up when he made fun of my dreams in his last post. I thank God for my pastor and his efforts; otherwise I would be up on manslaughter 2. Praise God!   sametoya (sametoya) New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 204.42.25.236 Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 9:06 pm:        Israel, I didn’t call you ignorant. My original post was directed mostly at Michael and Mark. It said, “You and your IGNORANT POSTS.” Mark understood it and didn’t appear offended. As he wrote it was deserved. As for your ‘dream’, it was mean spirited and designed purely to inflame anger. There’s no denying it. If you have any doubt, ask your pastor (or therapist) like I suggested. Per beating me over and over until the police come, it’s a good thing you’re over that sort of thing and you don’t know where I live. I’m an expert shot and believe wholeheartedly in self-defense. I don’t know what your game is. But, you enjoy trying to manipulate people and toy with them. You think you’re clever, but you’re not. It’s like you said, “If you ask anybody, they'll tell you I'm not a real smart person.” I hope one day you can get a GED and a life. Healed, it’s useless to try and have any type of meaningful discussion. Too many people use the forum for gratification of whatever ails them. Considering the resident population of Hobart Freeman supporters, it makes perfect sense. I went back and read a lot of your posts. I’m sorry anyone has to experience the things you have. But, you seem all there! Stay with it, GUY!   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 218.47.92.254 Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 4:59 am:        I see some post here and at the tomax site about how children became rebellious etc and rebelled against the Word. You know I can remeber growing up in that mess, everyone was an outsider, like we were elite and the rest of the world was worldly and unbelivers. Every little thing was occult and censored. We could only associate with kids who were of the body, and if they werent around, well it got lonely. It felt weird and it had an affect on me. It was like I was part of something elite but felt like I was all alone at school. All those idiots that created the cult known as Faith Assembly should know this. Now that Im an adult, I can see where some misguided fool might be attracted to the teachings of Hobart Freeman but as a kid it was different, we just had to go along with it. Why dont all you self righteous people take a step back and see the whole picture.   mark1124 Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 171 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.18.32 Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 8:20 pm:        Healed. I have one word for you. It is the same as I said to fivefoldknucklefalsechristian: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.221.83.94 Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 1:43 am:        Yes you sleep until you heard the word "lawsuit" then those who were accused of wrong doings suddenlly become awake, like "uh oh, seems I have been getting away with something I shouldnt of".   mark1124 Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 172 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.18.32 Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 11:21 pm:        In the words I so often quoted to fivefoldbarfhead: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Give your life to Jesus.   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 108 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.35.68.76 Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 5:58 am:        The reason for the inactivity is that the die hard FA followers have moved on to another site, which isnt really a bad thing. I just wanted to add something that I read from one of confused brother Hombres post over at overcomers online. In his post he even admits that the death of Hobart Freeman is when the church started to fall apart. This reinforces what I and others have said all along; that is that Freeman was running the show and a cult mindset developed because he was the dictator in charge. Check out what Bro Hombre has to say: We have speculated on a lot of different things, that we think may have been causal toward the breakdown of Faith Assembly. Obviously, Hobarts' death was the catalyst for the beginning of that occurrence. Perhaps, a listing of those items would shed some light on the topic. I think also that in considering the following list ( please feel free to add what you think I have missed ), we need to also understand that in matters of religion, when men think they are doing the will of GOD, they are capable of doing almost anything, be it of sound mind or not. 1. Peer pressure. 2. Legalistic notions. 3. Head knowledge vs. heart knowledge. 4. Defining God by our understanding of what we have experienced, and limiting His effectual working in us by that definition. 5. Following men, instead of the Spirit of God. 6. Almost no emphasis on the aspect of Gods love. 7. Media, legal and community pressure/persecution. 8. Abandonment of the faith message by the leadership after Hobarts death. 9. Obvious tragic failures to receive divine healing. 10. A trial of our faith. 11. God redirecting us. 12. Gods sovereignty, that we may never know. Its amazing to me how people cannot see what was going on, and continue to follow this teaching. I know some of its nostalgia because Hombre has admitted in some of his post to endorsing worldly ways that were forbidden during FA heyday. Its like you want to let go but dont know how too. Well I aint here to change you, but I will tell you I want no part of it.   mark1124 Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 133 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.18.32 Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 7:28 pm:        We left to another discussion board where there are friendly people there and the likes of unhealed and fivefoldbarfheadsinner cannot come. Posts will be deleted there because the brother over there will not allow such garbage to happen as it does here. It is a breath of fresh air not to have to read the crapola that goes on over here and that is why the fellowship and the air is sweet over there. So healed, my boy, you can stay here if you want. Maybe fivefoldsinner would like to come back and you two can have some wonderful chat about your sinful ways.   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.221.80.119 Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 5:46 am:        Oh, how aloof of you to call me a boy. I see we have the spirit of brother Freeman, that is a spirit of eliteness. To bad for you and so good for me that this room is for all and not only some diehard FA jerkoff like you.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 9:00 am:        ...the difference between myself and you, healed, is that I have peace about who I am, and what I believe. I have that peace because I have searched the Bible, the Lord, as well as my own heart for answers to real problems that developed. One of the very real problems at Faith Assembly, was the presence of individuals like you, who not only never accepted Jesus the Christ into their own hearts and lives, but produced confusion and divisions until this present day, twisting and perverting, and taking out of context everything that serves your godless purposes. God help you......   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 110 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 60.34.153.109 Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 12:14 am:        I never wanted to be a part of FA but was forced to attend, so I dont see how my presence produced any confusion or diversion as you put it. I have experienced much confusion as a result of being a part of that mess however. Its interesting that you say I take out of context everything that suites my godless purpose. Isnt that what you are doing? I read over on the overcomers.com site where you approve of all sorts of worldly things that would of got you ejected from FA, but it seems you still are a diehard supporter of Freeman. Seems now that the dictator is gone and the leash is off, your going to go and do what you always wanted and be part of the world but still show affection/nostalgia for the man. Interesting, isnt that what he called a backslider?   paulbarner New member Username: paulbarner Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 70.202.143.55 Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 4:51 pm:        Healed my name is Paul and I atteneded Faith assembly too,,, I,m sorry you have been hurt. its very sad you are treated so badly by these people.. I saw the overcomers.com website and undersatand what you are saying,,,, if a person disagrees with Freemans teaching ,, it sure was never the way Freeman would allow people at faith assembly to act towards you and the other person (michael?) they have been tearing up!.. they would be disiplined and removed and considered a backslider ,, I agree that these people are worldly acting and not what was allowed at Faith Assembly, and it appears they are Idolizing a man and living fleshly.... yours truly Paul PS I dont think you can get anything from here but more hurt,,these people are hurting you on purpose.   mark1124 Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 134 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.18.32 Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 6:46 pm:        Say Paul, How long did you attend Faith Assembly and what makes you such an authority?   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 220.108.120.208 Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 7:41 pm:        No worries Paul, Im not one to be hurt by anyone here, actually I enjoy it. Thanks but no thanks for any sympathy or apathy, Ill have no part of that mess either. But I do agree with you there is a double standard going on with some of them. It just disqualifies everything about the movement.   mark1124 Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 135 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.18.32 Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 4:51 am:        Double standard, healed? That's about as funny as fivefoldsinner thinking that I supported the war in Iraq or that I posted to a pornographic website by telling dirty jokes. I think I should be called Healed also. I am healed from your delusions. Ha ha ha. You and Michael are the laughing stocks of this board! At least we have some standards! Hey...go talked to fivefoldfiddler about double standards!   fa_member New member Username: fa_member Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 70.155.206.251 Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 1:57 pm:        Hello. I am a member of Faith Assembly and have been for many years, I am very sorry for the way Healed and Michael have been treated it is very "un_Christ like"this is a bad example of being Christian.your right Healed its a double standard. Michael is right and I have to agree Dr Freeman was never like this.. thanks FA_member   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 177 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 3:00 pm:        Mr. FA member. You don't know Dr. Freeman very well. You also need to read more of the postings of these 2 individuals,..... chronologically, would help. Healed is your basic unregenerate, who loves to criticize anything that pertains to Jesus Christ. Michael is a heretic who supports the JDS heresy. Both of these individuals contribute nothing constructive or positive to this forum but rather devisive smear campaigns based upon childish and unlearned complaints, and using crybaby tactics. I am wondering......perhaps you are simply Michael masquerading again as a new member. If not, stick around...you're sure to see these 2 show their backsides soon enough.   fa_member New member Username: fa_member Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.233 Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 7:32 pm:        I have seen what you people write and that is enough to see where you are coming from and its not Christ like the hatred in the words that people have written here is terrible and then they call themselves part of Dr Freemans teaching its sad ,I knew Dr Freeman a long time and he was never like what you people have displayed here so you will have to sell your bridge to someone else I dont have any interest in it and also I have not talked with anyone else at faith assembly that sees any good in what is happening here, Thats why faith assembly dont speak out against you and mark and others here it would just cause a fight. I dont need to stick around to see anyone elses backside I have seen yours and mark's and others all I have seen was michael say you are wrong and I believe he is right and I am glad he has left it would only harm him to stay here, healed is right its a double standard.   mark1124 Intermediate Member Username: mark1124 Post Number: 136 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.243.18.32 Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 2:52 pm:        I believe fa_member is Michael under another name, which he is soooooo good at doing. Michael was wrong in all that he did and Healed is the one living a double standard.   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 222.150.207.195 Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 5:05 am:        I admit Ive been checking in over at losers online...aka overcomers online. Im baffled by the name calling, the mean spiritness and hate these clowns possess. Just like back in the day with Hobart and gang. If you werent one of the crowd then your an outcast. I thought Jesus taught a different message. You know, the more I read and see what the Hobart hard liners are posting, the more I see just how "worldly" they really were/are. I wished the realative I have all caught up in the bondage created by FA could see this.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 8:52 am:        Have a nice day, Unhealed. Let's take a look at the name calling that you are guilty of just in just your last post: 'losers online' 'Mean spiritness and hate' 'clowns' I can see that it took only a few days for you to show what you are made of. Nothing of substance. Nothing that ministers grace to the hearers, Nothing whatsoever of value. Only more baseless accusations. Overcomers online.com is a place where we can discuss issues and their relevance to our lives without resorting to these childish name calling attacks that you and Michael love. Of all the topics here, at Factnet regarding Hobart Freeman and FA, I see so little of value to anyone needing ministry that it might as well be abolished, I see only a couple of very tiny people who live to condemn others. Show me Christ in you by either your deeds or yet by your words, Unhealed. I have yet to see anything that resembles Him in your conversation.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 2:52 pm:        Hombre, I've read many of your posts and it seems Healed has a point.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 4:06 pm:        Odysseus. Like your brothers, 'healed' and 'fivefold', I do not see anything whatsoever in your posts ( 2 ), that lead anyone to higher ground, edify the hearers, or point to Christ. More of the same. Criticism of individuals, whether it's me or someone else, it doesn't matter. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, for the meantime, and reiterate myself once again for your benefit. The point I have made all along, is that we are here to seek answers regarding Biblical theology and the lives that we led while at FA. From day one, I have not condemned anyone for the use of doctors, as I have myself. I do not condemn those who are divorced, as I have been also..as well as legend has it, a very good example to all of us...Paul. I can watch tv and I can read a book other than the Bible, and I can listen to the radio and I enjoy different types of music besides gospel. I am also not afraid to wear nikes or logo apparel, or root for my favorite basketball team. I am free. I don't believe that Christ wants us to become so isolated and ingrown that we have no more joy, no more interest in anything but being little slaves to religious dogma. I also cannot condemn others for their trials and misfortunes. I have suffered as much or more as many have. I am interested in growing in Christ, not about how you or anyone else want to judge or perceive me. I would think that would be a given with anyone who considers him/herself to be a follower of Christ. Jesus the Christ is a living God, that we can have a one-on one relationship with...He is anything but dead religion, which is where some legalists went at FA. That was but one problem of many. It would seem as though there were many more problems within the hearts of all of us that need/ed examination, one of many would be how quickly some are removed from the faith once delivered to the saints. Perhaps many hearts were not right to begin with. That is what I am here for. To seek practical answers to difficult questions.... ...but you'll need to argue theology with me, and convince me that the theology that Hobart taught was essentially flawed, what didn't line up with the Word of God, and why; ...not simply banter around accusations with Healed and Fivefold. This dividing up of one camp against another is not constructive, and is one of the oldest games there is. Let's find some common ground and go from there. Good luck finding your way home, Odysseus. May God bless you.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 4:13 pm:        After reading your long answer, it looks like you no longer agree with Freemans theology either. Unless I'm missing something here.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 5:01 pm:        Then again after some thought and knowing your past posts, I see your deflecting again. Here's my opinion based on the title, What made Faith Assembly so special. Why was Faith Assembly so special you ask? Well it might be that Faith Assembly was infested with like minded moronic ‘kool-aid’ drinkers that didn’t have a mind to think for themselves. That’s what made them ‘sooooo special’. You can still see a few of them in small herds wandering about, lowing like the good cattle they are. Longing that Hobart will come and save them and lead them to good water. You can almost hear them Mooing’. ‘Hombre’ seems to be the lead cow in this little group here. He won’t go to Church because none is good enough for him, but he’ll tell you that he knows the truth and he tells you he understands the ‘strong meat’ of the word. Yet he admit's he goes to a Doctor, takes drugs for pain, has been divorced, had an altercation with his church and has over a 100 channels on his cable or satellite. Yea, he still knows the truth. ‘Wow brother sure enough, I’m a believer.’ If Feeman were alive Hombre would be diss-fellowshiped. Yet in some way I think he knows that. Hombre exibits what he is, just a vain empty cloud leading others away from the truth. He talks a good game but that’s about it. He’s so screwed up over what he considers his belief in theology he’ll tell you that he still agrees with everything Freeman said. He’s a product of Faith Assembly and a poster child for them as well. Hombre will tell you he agrees with Freemans theology but Hombres life style will tell you otherwise. Typical of the people of this cult. If nothing else this site serves as an illustrative product for people like us who have had the good sense to get out of this cult long ago. When’s the next act going to be up on stage? Maybe Hombre will pull a Hobart out of his hat. ‘Nothin up my sleeve, lookee here!’ Healed, I don’t agree with you in every instance but I do concur that these people do not exhibit the love of Christ in any way. Moreover they probably drive away more inquirers to the true faith than they know. But it was the same when Freeman was alive. We were all so spiritually superior…so much that we didn’t have any compassion for the lost or confused. We just knew we had been taught the ‘strong meat’ of the word and we were the ‘Overcomers’. Look at us now. Just a bunch of pathetic has-beens and spiritual Pharisees. Listen to us talk about listening to Hobart’s tapes like there are nuggets of truth still left to be gleaned. All of our gurus or leaders are either dead, divorced or doing something else. Some movement huh? Some Five Fold Ministry. Not a single remnant left. Kind of tells you what God thought of it doesn’t it? Looks like he just spat it out of his mouth. We were lucky he did… we were lucky that’s all he did to us. Now Healed, watch them come out and come after what I just said. They can't help it. There salivating to come after me for what I said. That will tell you more about them than I could put in words. The World just see’s a bunch of insignificant naive Freemanite robots and ersatz Christian’s. No message, no love, no grace or love. Just all Hobart all the time. Thank the Lord all he did was spit us out his mouth.   duncan Intermediate Member Username: duncan Post Number: 149 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 9:09 am:        Odysseus (aka I Corinthians 13, aka Rueben, aka Israels son), After reading your many posts, I'm still not sure where your coming from? What exactly do you believe? I'm not saying this to come against you, because I don't consider myself a "Freemanite" as I was in my early teens when he died. I'm just curious as to your beliefs and theology. I consider myself very conservative in my theology. Many times, it happens to line up with what Dr. Freeman taught. Sometimes, it doesn't. I certainly don't think I'm superior to anyone, and I agree that many folks that went to FA felt superior ( or "overcomers" as you stated.) My personal belief about overcomers is that if you are a Christian, then you are an overcomer. I don't believe that there is an extra class of "super Christians" that a better than other Christians. The Bible states that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Our measuring stick for spiritual growth is Jesus, not other Christians. When we look at ourselves in that light, all our righteousness is just filthy rags. Thanks for hearing me out.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 10:49 am:        Odysseus. I am not here to agree with you or anyone else. I am here to move forward in Christ. If you have nothing constructive to relate regarding Christianity and the pragmatic and spiritual application of Biblical theology to our lives, I have nothing more to say to you, than I have already said. Good luck.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:37 pm:        Hombre you said, “I am here to move forward in Christ.” So go ahead and move forward in Christ. You want to move forward with Him, move forward with Him, no one’s stopping you. Oh, and I didn’t start this to have a conversation with you. Earth to Hombre, this is a web site about ‘cults’. So who are you kidding? And why are you here unless you’re an apologist for Hobart Freeman? Additionally in my opinion nothing you have ever written here has ever had the smell or a note of the (‘pragmatic and spiritual application of Biblical theology to our lives’) whew, did you look those words up? That was a nice try but it didn’t work.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:48 pm:        Oh, and I didn’t start this to have a conversation with you. Earth to Hombre, this is a web site about ‘cults’. So who are you kidding? And why are you here unless you’re an apologist for Hobart Freeman? Well then, quit using my handle as a reference for your insults, Secondly, I have reached out to you, and you have crapped all over me. As I said to Fiver, I say now to you: I am not interested in talking with you any longer, under any name you choose to use. Hombre out.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 1:15 pm:        Duncan, I was not trying to mislead anyone by posting under a new name. This website continues to exasperate me. I come back after being gone for some time and my account is no longer valid so I can’t post, so I did it under another name. I understand now that I can just re-register. Yes I am Rueben. I’m a little out of sorts (which is an understatement) because I buried a friend of mine about three weeks ago. My friend and I were in F/A and attended our satellite church in Ohio. He had a hard time losing his beautiful wife to (ovarian) cancer. After that he started to question things and he started to drink a little too much. A little too much became too much. After a while the drinking got to be so much it started to cause him health problems and effect his life and work. That’s another story. We sort of grew up together and used to Rabbit hunt outside of town. When his first child was born, I was called to come see him and his wife. Our family’s were close we used to have dinner in each others homes all the time. This man loved the Lord with a love that would impress anyone, with all his heart and mind. If anybody needed help, day or night, he was there. I mean that, he would be at your service if you needed him at two in the morning. When he said, “good morning’ you know he meant it. I say all of this to illustrate my affection towards him. But more importantly this man (my friend) thought he was under a curse because he left the F/A and the offshoot in our community. After he left, he never attended any Church again. I tried talking to him but it was to no avail. He desperately wanted to know the truth but his mind was so screwed up over his past and associations with F/A, you couldn’t get through to him. He wasn’t sure about his eternal security and had deep misgivings about if he was really saved. Over time the alcohol and depression messed him up so bad you couldn’t talk to him. I didn’t see him for a few years and when I finally caught up with him he was a shell of a man and broken down so much you could see death following him. His daughter called me to say he passed away. I kind of lost it at the funeral. So forgive me if I don’t want to hear how great Hobart Freeman was or how wonderful F/A was. Hombre is just an apologist for a religious system that has done more damage that you guys realize. Hate me love me, I don’t really care. So now you know.   duncan Intermediate Member Username: duncan Post Number: 150 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 1:39 pm:        Rueben, Thanks for opening up. I am truly sorry for your loss. I always hate to hear stories like that, because it reminds me how blessed my family is to have moved on when we did. I'm not sure how things were in the "satellite churches" around the country, but the stories I've heard are that people became more screwed up there than they did at FA. Towards the end of Dr. Freeman's ministry, going to church at FA was equivalent to salvation. In other words, if you left there, then you were leaving your salvation. That's a pretty heavy thing to lay on a "baby" Christian, and it was totally unscriptural. All I ask is that you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I think that Healed has done that because of all the pain he has been through due to FA. He is discounting all of Christianity because of his experience with FA. My prayer is that he search his heart and come to Jesus on God's terms, not on FA's terms. FA does not equate to Christianity. There were some very good things taught at FA, but there were also some very harmful things taught, as well. Our duty is to look to Jesus for our salvation and strength. Finally, I don't hate you. I appreciate your thoughts. I will pray for you as soon as I send this message that God will grant you strength and wisdom. Have a great day! Duncan   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 1:54 pm:        Duncan, Just to let you know. I didn’t throw the baby out with the bath water. There were some times I couldn’t find the bathtub, but that’s another story. I’m still a servant of our Lord. Thanks for your sentiments and prayers.   sametoya New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.106.229.218 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 1:59 pm:        Odysseus (Rueben), your recent posts are powerful to say the least. Your 04/20 (5:01) post certainly hit the F.A. nail on the head. In my lowly opinion, it's the best darn post in the whole darn thread. You expressed things I know are true but have trouble putting into words. THANK YOU! Per your 04/21 (1:15) post, I'm sorry your friend past away. I know the experience of trying in vain to convince someone there is salvation without Dr. Freeman. My heart goes out to them.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 182 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:33 pm:        Reuben, I am sorry for your loss, but you need to quit labeling me, and accusing me of being who you think I am. I'm going to say this for the absolute last time. FA's theology, and that which Hobart taught in a class entitled Biblical Theology, is what I hold fast to. I think that you will be hard pressed to find any conservative Christian that will disagree with those teachings. The Nike crap, the unwritten dress code, and peer pressure that went beyond the point that Biblical theology left off, is IMO, what was a problem. I have listened to any number of other preachers, be they Baptist, Charismatic, Pentacostal, Baptist/Evangelical...whatever, who all also have their own little narrow view of what is appropriate and what is not too. What set FA off from the others is/was the divine healing issue.... I have lost friends too. You are not alone there. I have also known people who were dramatically healed, including my girlfriend, who never heard of the faith message, or Hobart, yet has a story that baffled the doctors. So...the point I am and have been making all along is that whether you want to believe it or not, physical healing is a part of the atonement provided for us by Jesus Christ, as is set forth in the book we call 'the Bible' over and over; and it makes no difference whether FA preaches it or not. The existence of those promises is not predicated upon your or anyone else's belief system or permission. It is up to an individual to accept them or not. Yes, the consequences are extremely serious, and it is not something to play with. We would all like it if everyone was healed instantaneously every time we prayed....that is what and why I am continuing to search, Reuben, because I can't change what is written as the Word of God to reflect what others or even I have experienced, and besides, I happen to believe it because.....I have been touched by Jesus myself..and I am not about to throw away what I have with Him, for friendship and acceptance with anyone on this earth. You can't learn faith overnight...it takes a lifetime. Only you can know if you are in faith about something or not, meeting conditions, etc., etc., etc. ..and if not, then you'd better get to a doctor, if you want to live. How is it, Rueben that I can know this, and apparently there is a whole cadre of devotees to your logic that don't? I am going to throw out a final piece of advice, and it is something I've learned along the way, and seen in a multitude of circumstances among many different types of people, religious, and secular alike: Quit blaming other people for the problems in your life, and accept responsibility for your own actions and decisions. That is accepting maturity.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:33 pm:        sametoya, Thanks   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:45 pm:        Hombre, thanks for your good advice. I’ll give that advice to my friend who just died. Heck I’ll whisper it to him at his gravesite. This is typical from you. Be careful how you address me, unless you want to go around with me. I thought you were not going to address me any more. Typical. As for maturity, maturity is accepting fact, not fiction.   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 183 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 4:31 pm:        ... and what are the facts, Odysseus? I see anger and resentment building to rage and violence. It wouldn't hurt you to shed a few tears, and hit your knees, instead of blaming and threatening others. My best friend died 2 years ago.....'in faith'. Does that change what is written in the Bible? I think not. Do you think that I do not miss him, or wonder what happened? He died an honorable death regardless of what you or anyone else thinks. He died being who he was, and for what he believed, not as some pathetic used up fragment wasting away on a hospital bed praying that the doctors would find some way to help him. That is a mans' man, and I count it an honor to have known him. Your problem and all of ours is reconciling what The Bible says with our experience. You have several choices: 1. Turn back into Egypt. A. Abandon faith, and play church to assuage you guilt and feel spiritual. B. Abandon religion altogether. C. Pick a new religion. 2. Seek answers to your problems in prayer from Jesus Christ Himself. He is the One who said that you would find Him if you sought with all your heart; but it will require faith. I pick #2. You simply need to make a choice.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 4:50 pm:        You’re a sad sad man who can’t make a coherent argument or really any sense for that matter. You don’t know the tears I shed. The again you must have never read my posts. Plus you’re bordering on being melodramatic. Really, accusing me of building up to ‘rage and violence’, how Maudlin. Give me air. Is that all you’ve got to come after me? I see now what you must do. You must kill yourself for the faith for all of us to believe. Do it now for Hobart, then we will believe you. Then again please don’t. I’m starting to worry about you. Plus it's hard to follow what you're saying. My guess is you're not English major are you?   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 184 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 5:32 pm:        Hey, thanks for the most recent round of insults. 1.) The reason I don't make any sense to you..is well....you aren't really listening. Do I need to prioritize what I write to you with bullets or synopsize it with a simplistic outline? I think I'll settle on a numerical listing. 2.) Melodramatic? You are the one who told me: ' Be careful how you address me, unless you want to go around with me '. What..... pray tell...... would that mean, tough guy? 3.) No, I'm not an English major; just educated beyond you, most probably. Should I start with your grammatical errors, or simply assume that you are a poor typist? 4.) Now I understand where you're coming from. You are frustrated and need a punching bag. Your emotions are all over the place. To be perfectly honest, what you really need right now is a drink ( Prov. 31:6), and a woman to massage you. ..after that, take a vacation and enjoy yourself. Yeppers, that's the ticket mate. Have a good one.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 7:46 pm:        Hombre, What happened to not responding to ‘fools’ like us? I thought I wasn't worthy of your response? Don’t you mean what you say? Thanks for the wish for a good vacation. I’ll send you a card from where I’m going. For the record the Wife and I are going on a cruise. Where are you headed?   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 7:48 pm:        Hombre, Just one question. Where do I mail the card?   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 7:57 pm:        Oh, by the way. Keep talking about how superior you are. Your response releases untold numbers from spiritual bondage. Thank you and God Bless   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 185 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 8:48 pm:        Thanks!! Its' good to know that I'm having the desired effect. Just curious... when did you realize that I was superior to you? A cruise eh?..have they gotten the latest case of salmonella cleaned up yet? .....well anyway, I would avoid the food..that's where you'll pick it up. Me?...oh....somewhere better than you're going, obviously. Don't mean to look down on you and all, but hey, dude, I'm leavin town on the last train to Clarksville, and the engineer doesn't feel like waitin' on stragglers....so if ya wanna hitch a ride bop on down to the wait gate, mate....course you'll need ta be awake, and at yer rate, yer gonna need ta drop some freight. Yes...I know...always the imperial mindset... but hey, if that's the show you insist on, I'm happy to be at your service.   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 219.164.184.69 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 8:48 pm:        Yes, Rueben there are many of us who have suffered needlessly because of the FA movement. Ive witnessed it over and over and will unitl a relative passes as they will never let go. It provided false hope for situations that seemed hopeless, but there was hope, just not in the message that Freeman provided. If his message provided hope, then his dumbazz wouldnt of died. This is the point. All of Hombres message is horse poop. Its just a feel good approach for him and the others, their fellowship. Now that Freeman is gone, they are free to explore the "world" they were restrained from. This is no brainer stuff watching these people. They aint fooling nobody.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 9:04 pm:        Healed, I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve seen too many people become fodder for this kind of ‘belief’. Hombre is just an immature cheerleader for them; he hasn’t had the grace given to him to learn the damage, actually the sinful nature of his spiritual pride. I’ve run into this many times before.   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 219.164.184.69 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 11:35 pm:        Rueben, You spoke of FA die hard followers in a post above. I have distanced myself from all things FA, but I am curious as to where these people are. I thought all the FA satellite groups had disbanded. I know there is still a group in Indiana as they have a website, but your saying there are still others? Are they still hanging on to every word like the old groups did? The relative I know listens to tapes.   healed Intermediate Member Username: healed Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 219.164.184.69 Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 11:50 pm:        Id also like to add that there are some people out there, (my relative) that follow the legalistic teachings of Freeman to the letter. There is absoultley no compromise whatsoever, in fact they are adding to it because these are "the last days" and are hunkering down. So I dont really feel that the people here like Hombre, Moulder, Duncan and Mark are really leaders of the fallout. They are on both sides of the fence, like I said before, nostalgic for the fellowship. Hombre seems to have got himself a "wordly" education and enjoyed all things that Freeman condemend, but he still is a cheerleader for all things FA. Having grown up in that mess, its comical reading Hombres contridicting post. I think he qualifies as a geniune backslider.   odysseus New member Username: odysseus Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 12.222.33.87 Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:52 am:        Healed Our satellite church in Ohio disbanded some years ago. My friend who just died recently was a member of that church but he left after it broke up (over the leader’s sexual impropriety) he never darkened the door of another church again. Not too long after his wife was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Actually the cancer was quite advanced, and he watched her waste away. The sequence of events was devastating to him. He was left to raise his daughter alone, who by the way has grown into a very charming and bright woman. She’s married with 2 kids and very happy. (Thank the Lord) Anyways I didn’t want to leave you with the impression that our Ohio church was still active. Like you I don’t think any of them are. But like you if they are I really could care less.   sametoya New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 204.42.20.246 Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 1:55 pm:        Rueben and Healed, I really can’t understand where the Freeman crew are coming from. Like Healed, my relatives still adhere to every legalistic edit. However, so many of the Freeman people here say, it’s okay watch TV, wear running shoes, use cake mixes and go to a doctor. Didn’t Hobart say doctors opened one up to demonic influence? How do they rationalize their own behavior with their Freeman advocacy? All they seem to hold on to is “Yea, Freeman!” and “I’m an Overcomer!” and “You’re all damned!” Yet, they are similar to my relatives when they talk of the failure and sin in their own lives. It sometimes makes my woeful life look saintly in comparison. I loved it when Reuben pointed out how some people re-play the tapes over and over. They try to glean the last bit of truth ‘the great theologian’ may have left behind that they missed. Dang! I can relate! I’ve witnessed that for twenty years! Then you find on their high and mighty Overcomers website, their doubts come out. They ask each other, “What went wrong?” and “Did anyone ever see a single miraculous healing manifested?” They just can’t admit the message was wrong. They can’t admit it’s a message that brought pain, suffering, death and confusion. They can’t allow themselves to say, “Gee! Maybe we ought to re-examine things. Could it be God doesn’t always guarantee health and wealth? Could it be that other people should matter to us? Could the great and powerful Dr. Freeman possibly be wrong?”   fivefoldprophet New member Username: fivefoldprophet Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.174.93.102 Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 5:17 pm:        Mark ,Hombre, Moulder, and Duncan “God gave a prophesy ! The Prophesy first said to Mark “repent” (Mark refused) Then the Prophesy said to Faith Assembly “repent” Faith Assembly did repent and the association with Mark ended. Mark stepped down as room administrator at FA ‘s Paltalk room. >His relationship was as a tree that died without nourishment.< Faith Assembly has continued on. Then Hombre, Moulder, and Duncan came on the seen and criticized the prophesy . The over comers website was formed and yet in all of that it has failed >just as a tree growing tall and strong it has died !< A Good Tree cannot bring forth bad fruit_ and a Bad Tree cannot bring forth good fruit….   sametoya New member Username: sametoya Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 204.42.16.208 Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 11:52 pm:        Oh good gosh, Michael! Weren’t your thousands of other prophesying posts enough? It must be hell being able to call down the thunder against one and all. That’s some responsibility with which you’ve been entrusted. Or, could it possibly be a deluded ego? “Da gee, I’m not sure. That’s a tough one.” Personally, I don’t give a rat’s butt. But, could Mark, Hombre, Moulder and Duncan (et al.) please die or repent or whatever so Michael could go on with his life? Thank you!   duncan Intermediate Member Username: duncan Post Number: 151 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.255.224.10 Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 7:11 am:        Five, Welcome back! Duncan   hombre Intermediate Member Username: hombre Post Number: 189 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 209.254.77.23 Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 3:12 pm:        Answer to original post question: .....because he was. http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/20453.html?1146164630

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