| Author |
Message |
    
Fredericka Hollis
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 11:29 am: | 
|
Is the House of Prayer for all People considered a cult? I need a clear understanding of who Daddy Grace and Father Divine is and did Daddy Grace believe that he was Christ incarnated? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, May 10, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
|
If you ask me, Christian Science has many earmarks of cultism, and I can't believe our society seems to be unbothered by them. How many people have to die needlessly without proper medical attention, before all of us are outraged?
I know an entire community of Christian Scientists -- most of them wonderful people -- and they are over my head in terms of reaching them. I am about to lose my best friend -- a C.S. follower -- to a terminal health problem, because she won't seek medical assistance. It just drives me nuts. I don't know what to do. All of the logical talking in the world doesn't seem to help. It just seems to be their birthrights to allow their brethern to die, just to prove some kind of bent point about spirituality. It would be wonderful if they could remember that C.S. stands for "common sense." |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 3:39 am: |
|
"The material body and mind are temporal, but the real man is spiritual and eternal. The identity of the real man is not lost, but found through this explanation; for the conscious infinitude of existence and of all identity is thereby discerned and remains unchanged."
From Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy |
Quilter
| | Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 5:27 pm: |
|
I know quite a few people who suffered terribly and died slowly IN SPITE OF the best medical care, and a few who did so BECAUSE of medical "treatment." We all have the right to choose how we want to live or die.
If you're free to leave, criticize, or vary your degree of involvement, it's probably not a cult. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 3:43 am: |
|
Both Christian Science and Scientology have something in common. Because both believe in the spiritual ability of life to heal, they often do not distiguish an illness of the body that is not psychosomatic.
In C.S. much healing has been done, but where they fall short is where the body has a genetic situation, such as Diabetes. My sister said my mother, who was a C.S. was abusive--it was so hard at first to see her viewpoint because my mother was a really fair, intelligent person. But my sister said, I would have died if my aunt hadn't taken me to the hospital, that is ABUSE.
She was right looking at it that way. But unintended for sure; my mother was trying to do the right thing expecting "right thinking" to heal.
Scientology often makes a similar type of mistake. As in the Lisa MacPherson case, she was mentally ill and drugs could have stablized her. But they were so sure that it was psychosomatic and that she would come around with their treatment. And they are so against any mentally stablizing drugs. They just don't understand that some mental illness is body caused, not spiritually caused. And while it may be true that the spirit can heal the body, meanwhile while one is waiting for the miracle or process to work, it wouldn't hurt to take out a little insurance in the form of medical care. |
John Eldred
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 12:02 pm: |
|
If we all accept health care as defined by medical science to be the only way to heal, what does this do to our freedom, established for the right to practice any religion? Doesn't this move our country toward a single, established religion, where all must conform to one common standard or idea? Isn't this something granted to us in the Constitution, that we are free to believe what we choose?
There is a lot of misunderstanding associated with Christian Science, even among Christian Scientists. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 12:01 am: |
|
Responding to a previous message, Christian Science, and Scientology have nothing to do with each other... Scientology is a "get rich" scheme that has been investigated by the government many times, and CS members should not be associated with that at all, although confusion between the two does occur frequently. |
Help
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 2:16 am: |
|
I was wondering if there's a "Christian Scientist" who can answer this for me, Can Christian Scientists use lip chap. This may seem like a dumb question, but one of my friends is a Christian Scientist and she uses it. Aren't they supposed to fully reley on God to heal them, in all ways?
help |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 9:37 pm: |
|
That's a good question. I frequently have asked them also, why do they use glasses to read, or to see better...
They never give you a good answer to such questions. There are no answers, I believe. The problem seems to be that they keep telling to themselves that "all is mind and its infinite manifestation, etc, etc..." while in reality they are all so depending of matter -the same like the rest of us.
If this attitude is not a cult, then at least they are going around with the wrong mental glasses... |
LTCS
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 2:22 pm: |
|
Fourth-graders can't do calculus, either, but that doesn't keep them from attending school. We are all learning. Many Christian Scientists HAVE been cured of the need for glasses, etc.
There is no church prohibition or criticism against medical treatment, anymore than there would be criticism of a child's staying in school to learn more.
Christian Scientists use deodorant, hand lotion, blankets, food, toothpaste, and gloves, too, because they realize they are still dependent upon what appears to be a human body. Chapstick is just another form of lotion. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 10:26 am: |
|
"Many Christian Scientists HAVE been cured of the need for glasses, etc."
Do you know how many were raised from the dead? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 10:45 am: |
|
Stop the hate! Hate crimes begin with YOU ! ! !
http://www.stopthehate.net/
There is a sickness eating away at the strength of humankind and that sickness is Hate. Daily, throughout the world, men, women, and children are tortured, brutalized, and murdered simply because of their beliefs, their race, their physical state, or their sexuality, and equally guilty as the perpetrators are those among us who remain indifferent and/or silent. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 1:42 pm: |
|
You seem to be confusing debate with hate all over this board. A good debate will often build a bridge to friendship.  |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 3:29 pm: |
|
Not really. Look, for instance, at the dialogues between those scientologists and their opponents. They are being yelled at, and thrown out of the discussion. That is no good debate and no bridge to friendship. that is hate. I live in California, I am neither a scientologist nor a CS, but a regular secular humanist, with no preference for any religion. I volunteer from my time to help children belonging to drug depending families find help and safety. Some of the other volunteers in my group are members of churches and a few are scientologists. when we are together to help others, it is not about who of us believes in what, but it is about who wants to help because help is strongly needed. I read this list from time to time to review the messages of AA. Some of the children I help live with one or two alcoholic parents. It is very hard on the kids. One of the rules for helping the people is to respect them as individuals always. You cannot help them while offending them, or while hurting them verbally or emotionally. The articles that are posted by scientoligists in some of the other sections are way more controlled than the articles posted by their opponents. I wonder, if there is prejudice going on in the effort of people trying to rescue other people out of certain groups and denominations. And, this brings me to my last observation: I do not believe in public prayer and I do not agree to put the children I help in my volunteer activity to pray before they take a supper, because I consider that a form of mental manipulation of people who are in need. Not long ago, I was publicly criticized by a conservative Christian because he was the opinion that I am a worthless leftist that does not believe in God. Why in the world are people still fighting about religion? It happens all the time. Why can't people let others live their convictions in peace? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 5:10 am: |
|
What if people have a conviction that cults are bad and should be publicized? Should the Nazis have been "left in peace"? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 2:30 am: |
|
Jesus said he that believeth on me as the scriptures have said. If we are Human Beings, we should make an honest effort to do that! The Bible is not a play toy, it's the oracles of God. |
ispy
| | Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 9:34 pm: |
|
Christian Science is the best bet in this Millennium against malicious mental malpractices, mental brain-washing, mind control, hynoptism, mesmerism, animal magnetism, subliminal mind control, auto-suggestion, self-suggestion, conscious and sub-conscious manipulations by politicians, secret soceities, voodoo, black magic, political brain-washing, mass mind control through the mutli-media, personal beliefs/disbeliefs. cosmic beliefs/disbeliefs, Universal beliefs/disbeliefs, groups beliefs/disbeliefs, Soceities beliefs/disbeliefs, satanism, withcraft, microwave attack, scalar electromagentic, High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, Remote Viewing, Mental Transformation, etc......
And thank God for Mary Baker Eddy who finally exposes the lies that leads and misleads people of this world into self-delusions, hallucinations, and illusions and the way to salvation of oneself from these delusional, psyhical attacks. |
Mickk Harris
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 6:07 am: |
|
Most people who are religious are book readers without any spiritual or psycic experiences. You can not reason with close minded people, so there is no dialogue,just pointless debate. Just because I am inspired by GOD to write a book doesn`t mean that I have spoken face to face with him or that my book is the absolute truth. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 8:07 am: |
|
Last summer, my daughter fell from her bike and broke her leg. Both my mother in law (a christian scientist) and the "family practitioner" kept insisting that the girl only needed prayer to get healed. Three weeks passed and my daughter kept telling us that her leg was in pain, but when I tried to take her to see a doctor, my mother in law and the practitioner insisted with their CS mantra on healing telling us that "all is good and good is everywhere" or "God knows no evil sickness or death..."
By the end of the third week from the accident, my daughter, who had been confused by the two ladies' suggestions of healing, finally explained that she wanted a doctor to examine her leg. I took her to the local clinic and the x rays showed that she had a broken bone all along. Back home with her leg in a cast, my daughter seemed at peace with that solution, but neither my mother in law nor the practitioner said a word about the real situation that they had been trying to suppress for almost one month.
My daughter had been going around on a broken leg for weeks, while those ladies came to mind-control us into the conviction that the leg was whole; and when we finally came back with medical evidence of a broken bone, the two witches simply remained in silence and evidently refused to admit that they had been wrong with their mental speculations all along! I am thinking of bringing this to court or to the attention of congress since mental manipulation is an issue to combat if you have been harmed by that cult: the CS church pays for full-time lobbyists who aggressively work to get legislation passed which is favorable to their cult; additionally, they have received medical exemption from vaccines and other obligatory medical exams in the public schools.
I had to learn from my daughter's experience that no cult can replace objective analysis made by a professional physician. And, the only immortal truth after such a complicated confusion is this: Thanks to Christian Science, child-sacrifice has become legal in many places of the United States.
About the cult, Christian Science churches are losing members since decades but their current leadership is composed by a one-lady presidency that has appointed herself to be the leader of the CS organization for life.
Some more investigation should be thrown on this church, mainly because the teachings of Mary Baker Eddy are harming innocent children that often are left without a doctor in situations where real medicine is needed. Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, by Mary Baker Eddy, is nothing else than a mere philosophical especulation that should not be taken as "the only truth" when considering the suffering and pain of individuals that need real medical treatment in emergency situations. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 5:43 pm: |
|
This may sound like a strange title for an article on a religious cult; however, there is good justification for the comparison. The breakfast cereal Grape Nuts is made up of neither grapes nor nuts. Likewise Christian Science is neither Christian nor science. Christian Science reading rooms are springing up around Indianapolis, and an extremely attractive "church" has been erected in Carmel. They must recruit to make full use of these projects.
This strange mixture of Christianity, Hinduism and New Age thought began when Mrs. Mazy Patterson, later to be know as Mary Baker Eddy, took a nasty fall on the ice. She was in such intense pain that she gave up all hope for recovery. After three days in misery, she read the account of the palsied man that was healed by Christ in Matthew 9. Mary then claimed to have experienced a miraculous healing, which led her into an intense study of healing in the Bible. The final result of this study produced The First Church of Christ, Scientist. Today it is known as The Mother Church, and it controls the other Christian Science Churches through a five man board in Boston.
Although Christian Science pays lip service to the Bible, it is mandatory that members read it only in conjunction with Mrs. Eddy's book, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. ( S & H). This reading combination leads the student into Mrs. Eddy's strange and confusing concept of "True Christianity".
Let us look at some of the doctrines of Mrs. Eddy that forever separate her and her church from historical, Biblical Christianity
First of all, let's examine their strange doctrine of "scientific statement of being", which is read at the conclusion of every Sunday service: "There as no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter. All is infinite mind and its infinite manisfestation, for God is All - in all. Spirit is immortal truth; matter is mortal error; Spirit is the real and eternal: matter is the unreal and temporal. Spirit is God, and man is His image and likeness. Therefore man is not material; he is spiritual". (S&H, p.468). If all is mind as this states, then Christian Science can be seen to be pantheistic. A distinct Hindu , (as well as gnostic) teaching, which essentially denies that Jesus was a physical being as well as spiritual, and that all matter is only illusion, "Maya". Jesus, according to Mrs. Eddy, was only a "material concept" and was distinct from Christ. Christian Science also dismisses the need for Christ's atonement. To quote Mrs. Eddy: "The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse from sin when it was shed upon the 'accursed tree', than when it was flowing in his veins as he went about his father's business" (p.25 ) "Final deliverance from error.... Is not reached... by pinning one's faith without works to another's vicarious effort. Whosoever believeth that wrath is righteous or that divinity is appeased by human suffering, does not understand God" ( p.22) "One sacrifice, no matter how great, is insufficient to pay the debt of sin. The atonement requires constant self-immolation on the sinner's part That God's wrath should be vented upon His beloved Son, is divinely unnatural. Such a theory is man made". Need we point out that this is rank blasphemy?
Jesus, in C.S. was only the "Christ idea", and His ressurrection was allegedly also fictitious. In her glossary Mrs. Eddy has redefined resurrection as "Spiritualization of thought.... material belief yielding to spiritual understanding:" ( P.593 ) Figure that statement out, if you can!
Christian Science states: "Man is not matter" ( P. 475 ) The Biblical truth that God formed man of the dust of the Earth is "a lie concerning man and God "(p. 524 ) "The science of being reveals man as perfect even as the Father is perfect" (P. 302) "Sin and mortality are without actual origin of rightful existence. They are native nothingness" (p.281 )"Death is but a mortal illusion..."( p. 289) Mrs. Eddy continues: " No final judgment awaits mortals" (p. 291) She does away with Heaven and Hell as taught in scriptures. "Heaven means harmony; the reign of the spirit; government by divine Principle", (p. 587). "Hell is mortal belief, error"( p. 588).
She did away with Jesus' deity, blood atonement, physical resurrection, and our need to trust Jesus Christ for purchasing eternal life for us. No it is not "science", and it decidedly is not Christian! * note: much of the above information was found in "Christian Science" a booklet by Harold J. Berry of Grace College of the Bible, Omaha, NE
[Families against cults, http://www.ibae.org/html/facaa.html] |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 6:09 pm: |
|
These things are very frightening. if the CS allows such crimes to happen on children and weak minds, why aren't they under police investigation? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 1:59 pm: |
|
To the parent whose daughter broke her leg:
Ultimately, YOU are the parent. It is up to YOU to make the decisions regarding your daughter's health care. To pin the blame on another is to not accept your own responsibility as a parent.
To the poster who wanted to know why some Christian Scientists go to doctors while others do not:
There is no penalty levied by the church for deciding to go to a doctor or seek medical help. Each person learns at a different pace, reaches a level of understanding at a different time, and some are just not ready to accept metaphysical healing. There is nothing bad or wrong with it.
To the poster who made these statements: "Today it is known as The Mother Church, and it controls the other Christian Science Churches through a five man board in Boston."
And this is different from the Pope controlling the Catholic Church---how?
"In her glossary Mrs. Eddy has redefined resurrection as "Spiritualization of thought.... material belief yielding to spiritual understanding:" ( P.593 ) Figure that statement out, if you can! "
Simple. This is exactly what happened when Jesus "died for your sins," if that is what you happen to believe. I thought that was a basic tenet of most Christian religions. I'm surprised you don't understand that.
""One sacrifice, no matter how great, is insufficient to pay the debt of sin. The atonement requires constant self-immolation on the sinner's part That God's wrath should be vented upon His beloved Son, is divinely unnatural. Such a theory is man made". Need we point out that this is rank blasphemy? "
Where's the blasphemy? One man's blasphemy is another man's truth. And ALL philosophy and religion is man-made. I've never seen a religious cat, horse, or dolphin. Or tree.
"She did away with Jesus' deity, blood atonement, physical resurrection, and our need to trust Jesus Christ for purchasing eternal life for us. No it is not "science", and it decidedly is not Christian! * note: much of the above information was found in "Christian Science" a booklet by Harold J. Berry of Grace College of the Bible, Omaha, NE"
According to Christian Science, Jesus is a "Way-shower," and is not the one responsible for ensuring YOUR eternal life. That responsibility, like all others in this lifetime, is up to YOU.
By the way, read Jack Chick tracts much? Your source is as bigoted and ill-informed. Get yourself some real literature on the subject, instead of regurgitating what you have been spoon-fed by those who apparently have no knowledge. |
eb
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 6:04 pm: |
|
There is no need to argue, Jesus kept it simple...
John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Hi. I am searching around for some meaning in my life? I believe I have a soul but i'm not sure and don't want to fall for crap.
Any ideas?
What is this all about? Is it dangerous? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 2:49 pm: |
|
]Hi. I am searching around for some meaning in my life? I believe I have a soul but i'm not sure and don't want to fall for crap. Any ideas? What is this all about?
All Human being are created in God’s image, meaning that we all have a divine soul.
The best way to get meaning is to give meaning. Give of yourself to others. Do good works. Make this world a better place through your actions. In this way, you will find meaning. |
marigold1919
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 1:35 pm: |
|
As an adult survivor raised by my mother, a christian science practitioner, i am grateful to be alive.
There is no "science" to it: no scientific method, no research, no double-blind studies, all the processes we know of as science. It is, perhaps, a form of logic, a simplistic logic, perhaps distorted logic. They are covered by the fact that when one prays for healing and it doesn't happen, the person didn't trust enough, and if healing does happen, c.s. get the credit. Believe me, there are many disabled people and people who died before their time from diesease processes which could have been arrested by medical means. that girl who suffered the pain of a broken leg, spent a lot of time in unnecessary pain.
my mother died of breast cancer and took nothing - not even an aspirin - through the whole process. she kept her disease a secret from the family until the secret could be kept no longer and she was within 2 months of her death. her choice. or was it?
i struggle with the effects of this upbringing all the time. mind-sets or paradigms i have, which indeed hurt me, once observed, have come from my christian science early-age brainwashing. |
blaxshep
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 4:25 pm: |
|
All religions are nothing more then abstract mental poison. Wake up you idiots the Bible is a book written by men. How many more of these people have to die, I for one hope all of them. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 12:50 am: |
|
I thought this message board was about daddy grace and the house of prayer...???... |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 1:16 pm: |
|
Are you referring to Father Devine and His White Angels in Brigantine NJ? He was from Canada and He was quite big in the 1940-50's I think. I remember my Dad saying that he was run out of town. He had a huge "compound" on the beach. Back in those days the idea of a black man with a group of "white angels" living with him was not too popular of a notion. Religious or not. I believe he went the way of all con man cultists...eventual obscurity. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 5:25 pm: |
|
Misinformation, even though unintentional, can be harmful. Father Divine was not from Canada. He rose to fame in New York. He performed modern day miracles with self help programs for the poor. He fed thousands when the federal government failed in the "Great Depression". He never took up collections in any of his services. He and his followers lived a properous life. And as far as obscurity is concerned, the mission is still in operation today. Though I do not subscribe to all of his beliefs I think in the end, he was considered a force for good by most of the people that really knew him. Go to the Google site and type "Father Divine" for more information.
As for Daddy Grace, I read where he told his members that He came to give God a vacation. He didn't lift his followers from poverty compared to Father Divine, but he was a force to be rekoned with -- though from this observer, it is unclear as to why. But to many of his devotees, he was considered, if not God, pretty close. |
hashofet
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 2:51 pm: |
|
Daddy Grace was a con man and a fraud. His successors are just like him. it's amazing in this day and time people can be so stupid to fall for such an act. |
chris combs
| | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 11:04 pm: |
|
Here's something kind of weird. Someone from the CS Church is going around buying up vintage copies of Mary Baker Eddy's editions of Science and Health. I was on eBay and found an old 1887 copy of Mary Baker Eddy's Science & Health w/ Key, 30th Ed - Item number: 3591835243. I saw the same bidder whose user name was CSToday had several high bids on all of the old copies being offered. Each edition including 1897 and others appeared to be being bought up by this person. Is there any reason anybody can think of why they would be doing this? Very odd! |
Anonymous (198.81.26.106)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 8:41 pm: |
|
2 Words - Waco, Texas |
annoynmous (63.226.24.85)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 12:06 am: |
|
I'm with the guy who says CS is neither Christian or Science. It's more Hindusim than anything, it also has some Hegelian concepts woven into it. When you turn inward so that only mind or even infinite mind is supreme, you are disaffirming much of life, not supporting or healing life in any way. This is not to be mistaken for Christian healing in the slightest. CS is a very narrow view of life because it does not affirm all of life, nor can it explain the existence of anything other than mind. It is a turning inward. Once that happens, you are saying that only the inward is important. Only what is within is valuable and meaningful, the rest of the world can go to hell including reason, justice, matter.
If God is really God, Shouldn't he be found in the best of all of these realities. Shouldn't God be found in the highest and best reason, art, culture, justice, science, etc. Why just mind or consciousness? Why limit God is this way?
This is what happens when you rely on someone from hicksville with no credentials as a spiritual authority other than that the physician has healed herself. This is a far cry from the revelation of God in Jesus Christ. A revelation of proof, of power, of history, and of reality.
Compare the credentials that Jesus had to offer with those of Eddy. Whose authority should get priority? Should Eddy even receive a second look when her word conflicts with Christ's in such an ominous way. Get real! |
Jeremy Lane (67.21.17.162)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 12:52 am: |
|
"Anonymous - Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 12:50 pm"
&
"Anonymous - Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 02:49 pm"
If either of you, or anyone who are serious about wanting to know more about a "meaning" of life without the "crap" please contact me. I am a skeptic and a Christian. I hope I can help with any questions you might have. I am not here to "play" around, but to seek the truth in life through logic, reason, and faith. I'd love to chat with either of you. tiggr1228@excite.com
In His Service,
Jeremy Lane |
Julie Ann Hoffmann (68.65.220.33)
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 2:44 am: |
|
I believe that every adult ought to make their own decision religiously, but until a person is an adult that they should have medical care.
I was raised by a as a CS child. I was exempt
from immunizations, born at home, my mother die while practitioners charged by the hour to pray for them and then was told that our faith was just not strong enough to save them.
I was exempt through out school from science,
health, biology and countless other education, which ultimately caused me to be exempt from being
accepted by my piers as normal and therefore
I never had any friends at school.
It took me nearly 20 years from the time my mother
died until the time that I found out that CS is not Christianity. Although I knew a lot about
mind over matter, Mary Baker Eddy and church
members opinions I never knew much about Christ.
I believe that the Bible was given to us by God
and therefore a cult is a religion that adds
any thing 'in addition' to that WORD. So a cult
is not a religion and therefore has nil to do with
the 'freedom' of religion issue.
Christianity, in my opinion is a walk with Christ which is seperate for each individual. Nobody should dictate our walk with Christ, because then
they are trying to be God and again that defines
cult to me.
When I was 3 and an iron fell on my hand and
bone was exposed, throughout my fingers, and the and only flesh on most of my hand, I think I needed medical attention. I remember screaming bloody murder while my mother and some people quietly prayed, I didn't know much about life, doctors or anything for that matter but I do remember on some level wondering why she wouldn't help me. If my mother had chosen that for herself I may not have understood but I certainly would have had respect for her decision. I don't have much respect even now at 44, knowing that simple medical care could have saved me from the past 41 years of pain and diffuculity with my left hand, I was originally left handed and have struggled my entire life to be right handed. So are we
discussing a religious right here, I don't think so.
I felt helpless when my little sister almost bled to death from a head injury and when my other sister was internally bleeding to death, and when my brother was hit by a car and my mother literally pulled him from an ambulance. Those things I will never understand.
My mother died after 3 years of cancer which traveled through her body and little by little destroyed her physically and every time my father
convinced her finally to get medical care some
church member showed up or was already there that quickly un'convinced her.
In this country if a parent spanks their child
they are at risk of having that child removed
from thier custody. And yet their are children
nationwide subjected to constant mental and emotional torture which is tolerated because it
is presented as a 'religious' right.
When a child becomes an adult then they can make a decision for themselves, in the meantime lead them by example, for for their own sake mainstream them and at least give them the impression they mean something even if they don't have required amout of faith. By telling me that I just didn't have enough faith, I was a little kid hearing that I in fact had a hand in and there fore was somehow responsible for the deaths in my family.
Again that is not NOT NOT NOT religion. |
Anonymous (67.65.137.62)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 8:04 pm: |
|
Is there any kind of support group or just plain organization for Childhood Victims of Christian Science? |
Anonymous (67.65.154.26)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 7:30 am: |
|
Is anyone trying to collect CS horror stories in order to get CS parents' exemption from child abuse overthrown. YES, Christian Science parents are exempt from most child abuse laws in this country. Human sacrifice for religious reasons is alive and well in the US. |
curtis72 (curtis72)
New member
Username: curtis72
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 12.42.247.85
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
|
I would like to say that both sides of the argument are interesting. I was born into Christian Science and then abandoned it as a teenager. While in college ( 95) up until 4 years ago, I suffered from a terrible stomach problem once a month/every other month that would render me in crippling pain for abouyt 24 hrs. I took a bunch of different drugs to help but none did. Once I incurred this problem on a flight to New York from Paris and was taken to the hospital and several tests were run. The doctor told me she couldn't find anything wrong despite the pain I was suffering. So I went on my merry way. A short time later the problem came back and was so strong, I was laid up for three days. During this time I said to myself I have to do something about this. So I called a Christian Science practitioner for help. He worked with me and unfortunately I was so out of it I can't remember what he told me. So after about a week I was feeling good again but I did say to myself if this reoccurs one more time I will definitely go to a doctor. Well it has now been four years and I have been fine ever since. As an adult I have started follow Christian Science again because I have seen how it can help. I am not saying I am capable of raising the dead or anything but... |
nwmomike (nwmomike)
Member
Username: nwmomike
Post Number: 82
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 208.24.179.208
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:06 pm: |
|
I don't have enough time to weigh in on the debate. So for now I will give you resources to discover for yourselves the theological as well as sociological problems with Christian Science. Actually it works to your advantage. Instead of me telling you my opionion you can research for yourself:
http://www.carm.org/christian_science.htm
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c56.html
http://www.watchman.org/cults/cscenter.htm
This is at least a good start.
M or Michael |
curtis72 (curtis72)
New member
Username: curtis72
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 12.42.247.86
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:11 pm: |
|
I am sorry I didn't finish. I think whatever way one choses that it should be with the intent of doing good for oneself and for mankind. I think that is the way Jesus would of wanted it. In every major religion there is so much corruption of all sorts going on. There is discrimination,sexual abuse, intollerance, embesselment just to name a few. I think that too many people only see the surface level of things in this world and it takes great vision to see deeper meanings. I think that is what someone like Mary Baker Eddy has done with the Bible. She was able to see the spiritual messages in the Bible stories. Because what she says goes against modern thought ofcourse people are going to get freaked out because it challenges their way of thinking. And God knows that anytime the system is challenged there is going to be some or a lot of peole who get upset. But that is ok. Just remember that people die all the time in hospitals. Far more than the few accounts of Christian Scientists. I hear all the time about people who have healings from all different diseases. I think we have a far greater significance than just biology. Most of us believe we came from God so how could he who is perfect create something that is less than pefect? |
nwmomike (nwmomike)
Member
Username: nwmomike
Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 208.24.179.208
| | Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:28 pm: |
|
Sorry, but her views can be shown to go against what scripture clearly teaches. You may choose to go your own way but that doesn't necesarily mean you're making a good choice based on correct information.
He didn't create us imperfect. You make a serious mistake. God created Adam and Eve and gave them the perfect situation. It proves that God created what was good. It's when people don't do what God says and decide that God doesn't know best like Eve did and listened to the serpent. Each had the best circumstances but chose of their own volition to violate God's command. Since then we're marred by sin. God in giving humans the ability to choose gave the potential for the to choose to do good or choose to do otherwise. Without choice to do good or bad, love, or hate love is meaningless. We would end up robots. It just goes to show you that God gives every opportunity to show His love but we choose to do things our way instead of what God's word says.
She clearly distorts teachings of scripture. I'm sorry but I couldn't stand this rhetoric that seems to sound good but ends up people believing false notions about faith and make it sound like you can choose whatever you want and end up with God. Practically all religions deny one or all other definitions, so they all can't be true due to the law of non-contradiction.
http://www.watchman.org/cults/cscenter.htm
http://www.equip.org/free/DC605.htm
M or Michael |
psalm5613 (psalm5613)
New member
Username: psalm5613
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 192.83.111.72
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:01 am: |
|
“We have indoctrinated thousands of those who follow after the Watchtower Society that their unscholarly and distorted New World Translation is truly of God. We have actively promoted other texts as being equal to or even greater in importance than Yahweh’s book. Books such as Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, and the Book of Mormon are two that come to mind.
“Oh, and by the way, both of those books were co-authored by Nakal, the lead seraphim of my southern army. Nakal has played some pivotal roles in the establishment of heretical and apostate groups and cults. It was the demon general Nakal that appeared before Emanuel Swedenborg in 1745 claiming to be God, and telling Emanuel that all truth would come through him. It was Nakal that spoke to Herbert W. Armstrong telling him that the truth would come through him. It was Nakal that guided Charles Taze Russell in the establishment of the Watchtower organization. It was Nakal that appeared to Sun Myung Moon as Jesus on a mountain in Korea in 1935 telling him that God would finish establishing his kingdom through him. It was Nakal that convinced Mary Baker Eddy that she was the woman of Revelation, chapter twelve, who would unlock the mysteries of the dark book of the Bible. It was Nakal that delivered the Qur’an to Muhammad posing as the holy angel Gabriel. It was Nakal that posed as God the Father, and his associate, Pathah, who posed as Jesus. They both stood before the young Joseph Smith, telling him that all the churches were apostate and that the true church would be established through him. Nakal is quite an actor, is he not?”
From "Interview with Lucifer" by Rollin Miller
www.interviewwithlucifer.com |
brightman73 (brightman73)
New member
Username: brightman73
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 65.1.78.86
| | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 7:26 pm: |
|
I believe Ms.Eddy was ahead of her time in many of her ideas. However, when it comes to blantantly refusing medical care, I object. When I have asked the members about it; they say that it is up to each person how much they will rely on God. Well, I think God gave me common sense also to put a band-aid on a sore. This idea of not excepting medical care in favor of prayer is very odd to me. It doesn't make sense. Other than this very odd thing, I do think there are some good ideas from her book, Science and Health. I thought the chaper on "prayer" to be quite helpful. Like they say in AA, "Take what you need and leave the rest."} |
do_go_be_man (do_go_be_man)
New member
Username: do_go_be_man
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 69.134.166.157
| | Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 6:19 pm: |
|
For information on Christian Science, please visit www.christianway.org. |
mydraya (mydraya)
New member
Username: mydraya
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.4.122.179
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Hey guys. I am new to this site and I think it's really cool. I LOVE OPEN MINDED PEOPLE! anywhos. Me reading these opinions brought something to my attention that I would like to share.
I was adopted by an American family, I am from Russia. I was born with a heart condition that is at a high risk. When I came to them, I was going on 15 years of age. SUCKS TO BE ADOPTED AT SUCH A LATE TIME IN LIFE! I must say it was quet a chalenge. Anyways, back to my story.
It came to my attention when I was with them, that they barely went to the Docs. Having faith in Christ that we are healed, many times they left their healths at rest, not really bothering to take the time and the opritunity to think that perhaps God uses doctors to heal people through them. Many times my needs with my heart condition were neglected to even a point when I was having hard time breathing or having chast pains. Presenting them with my needs, all they would say to me, "Go and pray, Jesus is your healer and he will take your pain away." I will aggree that Jesus is our healer, but not to the point when you behave in unrealistic form of manner and negglect your natural body needs. We can't help it for the way we are born, our bodies need attention in every aspect of way and when we negglect our body needs, the reality is that it will turn for the worse.
As a result of my parents iggnoring my needs, my health went down the hill and it took 3 full months to recover and return to my daily life activities. I am doing fine now but I sertently learned what C.S. is and have a clear understanding on the opperation. I am very much against of that such practise and behavior, and indeed it brakes my heart that such close minds would put christianity and the faith of it to such a high expectation or a test, that they should put their lives at risk. In my eyes it's called, "suicide." Plain as day to say, C.S = suicide.
That is all I have to share with you all for today.
I shall retire but untill then, may God be with you all. |
hiley
New member
Username: hiley
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 60.234.225.147
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 2:54 am: |
|
i grew up in the christian science church. albeit in sunday school. and unlike other christian scientists we went to doctors when we needed to. so perhaps we were not true christian scientists. everyone has their choices.
but i must admit that reading so many tragic stories of innocent children suffering just breaks my heart.
i don't really ever remember being taught much about jesus. they just said he was some guy who demonstrated all of these amazing powers. we were encouraged to read science and health more than the bible - alot more.
i have found more hope, life and inspiration in the bible now that i have chosen to read that instead of any other "scriptural" book. it is the word of god and it's alive! it truly is supernatural. if you leave your bible on the shelf it gets dusty so open it!
and if you're ever confused by religon (as i know i have been) just call upon god to guide you and show you the way. god is always there for us. it's not about religon, it's about life
(Message edited by hiley on June 05, 2006) |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 2130
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.119.37.10
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:57 am: |
|
it is always best to take what GODS WORD the bible says than to take what man says. i believe in prophets but id one tells something that doesnt line up with GODS WRITTEN WORD i stop listening to them. call on JESUS and HE will help you. praise THE LORD |
hiley
New member
Username: hiley
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 60.234.225.147
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:26 am: |
|
however i ABSOLUTELY believe in the power of prayer to heal all kinds of sicknesses, ailments and afflictions. the practice of prayer and faith healing is not exclusive to christian science. it's across the board in christianity.
the difference between mainstream christianity and christian science is that mainsteam christianity does not think of medicine , doctors and surgeons as an "abomination" of some sort that is completetly useless to mankind. to be fair many christian scientists don't think that either.
all that matters is that we all believe in the same LORD |
hiley
New member
Username: hiley
Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 60.234.225.147
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 8:41 pm: |
|
please remember that there are extremists in EVERY single faith and religion. and sadly they give everyone else a bad name. like the nutters i see on the streets telling everyone they're going to hell for example. whether one fully understands or agrees with mrs eddys' teachings and principles or not, there's no doubt in my mind that tens of thousands of people HAVE been healed from simply reading science and health let alone those who've been healed by practitioners. i only just remembered how my father was cured of terminal cancer by a practitioner. she said it was very important for him to go to hospital to get the pain under control. but he never had cancer treatment to the best of my knowledge and that was 15 years ago and he's still here.
atheism is alot more dangerous than faith and it's sadly so prevalent in this modern age.
i know it seems like i'm contradicting what i said earlier but i had a long hard think about it and i know that i'm correct in what i say now.
hope this helps |
rhonda
New member
Username: rhonda
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 220.235.62.156
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 2:29 am: |
|
My mother was a Christian Science practitioner. When she was weak and seriously ill in the final stages of her life she did not allow a doctor to diagnos the problem... if she had then she would no longer have been elligible to be listed as a 'practictioner' .. it remained very important to her to still be available in that way to her 'clients'. This resulted in her eventually collapsing at home and being taken by ambulance to emergency. At that stage it would have been so much more gentle for her to have already been in a hospice rather than the trauma of the emergency ward... not to mention the heartache for her daughters (including one who is still attending that church). I am still trying to come to terms with the gross denial of physicality that I was raised with.. and some basic assistance that members of my family could have received if Mum hadn't taken the Christian Science teachings to such extreme.
In my view this religion emphasizes the symbolic and metaphysical interpretation of the Bible.. so was ahead of its time in that sense but still takes a literal interpretation of the stories of Jesus' healings.
The result is that many Christian Scientist remain fixated on 'achieving' physical healings and so deny themselves some basic humanity. In the face of death their extreme view seems ludicrous. When my mum was dying I had to 'dismiss' her 'practitioner' because his visits did not seem to allow her to accept her situation. Evenso, we sang the beautiful Christian Science hymns for her as she left us. |
|
