| Author | Message | ||
     old_watchman (old_watchman) New member Username: old_watchman Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.15.65.110 |
Here are some sharing points: What was going on in your life at the time you came into contact with HH? What was your initial reaction to or feeling about the group? What first interested you in the group? Were you misled during recruitment? Explain. What did the group or leaders promise you? Did you ever get it? What didn't they tell you that might have influenced you not to join had you known? | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 146 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Here are some sharing points: What was going on in your life at the time you came into contact with HH? I was devestated. I had lost all that meant anything to me. I was suicidal, and miserable. I was desparate, and angry. My health was in complete failure and shut-down, literally. }What was your initial reaction to or feeling about the group? I thought they were Bible-thumping fundies, wacko holy rollers, and thought they were a cult of some sort, because they were so different. What first interested you in the group? Someone from the group listened to me one day, as I shared my desparation. With literal tears in this person's eyes, they begged me to come pray and give Jesus a chance. I did go to a small get together in a home, and there, some folks were praying, and I tried it, as strange as it all seemed. I found myself weeping uncontrollably, as all the pain, sorrow, anger, and despair was replaced with joy unspeakable, other folks around me were weeping and praying for me. It was amazing, and the compassion they showed me afterwards broke my heart with amazement and humility. I was very interested in whatever they had, and I wanted it. Following this, they helped me in so many ways to get my life practically back together. God also healed me of disease during this time. Were you misled during recruitment? Explain. Nobody recruited me. I asked to join , and was actually asked to take it easy, and make sure thats what I wanted. After all, I was told, Jesus can meet me in lots of churches, and they just wanted me to be sure it's what I wanted. I was not deliberately misled from what I can see, but I do feel that people sometimes are blinded to their own needs and shortcomings, them included. Then again, having seen many churches since, I have learned this is normal with any church. What did the group or leaders promise you? Did you ever get it? Actually, as to promises, I was only promised that Jesus would never fail me. He never has. There were many plans and aspirations the leaders involved me in, and I was disappointed that not everything worked out how I hoped, but I do not remember it involving broken promises. What didn't they tell you that might have influenced you not to join had you known? They didn't tell me that I would be so in love with folks there, that when I left, and disagreed over religious beliefs, that I would weep for days, missing my old home church. but I wouldn't trade one day for anything. I have no regrets, just disagreements, and friends who I would die for. Not all of us are servants of Lord Bitter. I invite you, come and taste the freedom I feel!} | ||
| bekah (bekah) New member Username: bekah Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.196.31.132 |
i was a pre-teen when we joined HH and we had been going to fairs for years, so it was somewhat familiar to me. i was gung-ho, thrilled to be in such a fun, different place. i loved to go every weekend because i could traipse around the land with other kids who weren't trying to get me to watch movies i wasn't allowed to watch and who weren't talking disrespectfully about their parents. i loved gardening and sewing with them, but i didn't have any true friends. i thought that once we moved to waco, i would make best friends and be completely accepted. little did i suspect the elitism and cliquishness that tore me apart once we got there. i was rejected time and time again. whereas in the beginning, i thought that i would make friends that i would have until the day i died, once i moved up there and started trying to do all the right things--dress just right, work at the visitor's center, do all the crafts, sew, etc.--i continued to be excluded. i had no idea how to conform enough so that people would include me. i tried hard, but i remember many fellowships or birthday parties that i found out about later that i had no idea why i hadn't been invited to. eventually, i got pretty close to one family who had daughters a little older than me, but finally i realized the family was} "courting" me: cultivating me to marry one of their sons in the future. i was 16! i guess what i'm trying to say is that my family joined thinking we were going to find authentic relationship. we thought that that's what everyone had when they finally joined/moved to waco/started going to sunday meetings. at friday night meetings, everyone appeared to be family. but closer up and closer in, we were expected to play by the rules--and no one told us what they were. so we wasted our lives speculating and experimenting and adjusting, trying to get it all right to achieve some sort of relationship. it didn't happen. | ||
| boughtpaidfor (boughtpaidfor) New member Username: boughtpaidfor Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 64.146.89.99 |
"What was going on in your life at the time you came into contact with HH" We were fairly new Christians. After intense personal bible studies with our family God began to move us forward very quickly. Moral issues and lifestyle issues began changing in our lives. The vision God gave our family was a more simple lifestyle, a back-to-basics, even a desire to live off land and move to rural area. Out of our desire to honor scripture and know more about "homesteading" we were drawn to HH. There you see a "outworking" of alot of things. Homesteading, modesty, homeschooling, supposedly intimate relationship, etc. Alot of outward "EYE CANDY" as I call it. It seemed they had all the answers. Then when we found out they had a Church we were very interested. Could it be true, a homesteading lifestyle and a church assembly in one?? We were excited to say the least. "What was your initial reaction to or feeling about the group?" We thought, Oh!, this is what modesty is, hair up and long prairie dresses. Everyone was really nice to us and helpfull. We felt loved and connected. But that lasted for only a short while. We began seeing that the outside seemed like a dream come true, but as you dig deeper things began to seem wierd. I thought everyone would be "homesteading" their own personal land (gardening, etc.) but as we would visit homes you would see remnants of gardens that had not been touched in awhile. I later came to the decision they were all spending their time on the Church's Garden and shoppes. Also, something else that worried us was as we were visiting homes of HH members the phones rang constantly. We were always being interrupted. Even when I would call them on the phone it would beep constantly with incoming calls. What first interested you in the group The homesteading lifestyle. Were you misled during recruitment? Explain I personally believe we were being misled in a very subtle way. People we felt that God had connected us to were slowly being made to leave us alone as we were being directed to people the leaders wanted us to be with. Questions we had would never get a precise answer always a long winded, chaotic story that made no sense in the end. What did the group or leaders promise you? Did you ever get it? We were never told any direct promises. But you can sure get the feeling that if you get with the program all of this "eye candy" will be shared with you. The sweetness of peoples words led you to believe you would have deep, deep relationships with these people. Which now we know is just not true. A friend of ours, someone we thought at the time was our friend, had already bought into the "tell all" to the elders. After sharing some very personal feelings about HH with them they hung up and immediately called their group leader, which in turn called us and told us to direct our questions to them. We knew then that we would not be able to have deep relationships without being told on constantly. What didn't they tell you that might have influenced you not to join had you known? Well, for starters that the leaders are the Sons of God, therefore Christ in the Flesh would of done it for us. We were new Christians but not stupid. Looking back that is why they would not give us literature or talk about doctrine. They would say we would not understand and made us feel like we were little children who knew nothing and they needed to enlighten us. Now we see why they wanted to bring us under a group leader, were discussing submission and "love" to that leader. They knew if we did not submitt to their authority and what they said we would never accept what we were going to see or read. Something God taught our family from the beginning was that it was God-Jesus-Man-Women. There is no mediator except for Jesus. We did not need a covering from these leaders. A husbands covering is Christ and a wifes covering is her husband/hair. So we knew that the role the group leader was trying to play in our life was not right. Praise the Lord, we asked too many questions. We had a hard time getting on Friday night status but would have never went farther than that. Because we stayed in the Word, listened to the Holy Spirit and listened to anyone that had something to say about HH (good/bad) so we could make our own decision that is what kept us from joining. One dear family was able to answer just a few questions that months of asking brothers never got answered. Our freedom from bondage was in those few simple answers. Thanks dear family....you know who you are  } } | ||
| grits (grits) New member Username: grits Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.9 |
boughtpaidfor, are you posting at the moment? | ||
| boughtpaidfor (boughtpaidfor) New member Username: boughtpaidfor Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 64.146.89.99 |
Yes, Grits, I am still posting. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 199 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Boughtandpaidfor, you said this: Something God taught our family from the beginning was that it was God-Jesus-Man-Women. My my, that isnt what the Bible says at all. Jesus is God. Are you saying there is more than one God? It is actually GOD-CHRIST-MAN-WOMAN. You may need a revelation of who Jesus is! | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 462 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
Huh? boughtandpaidfor said: God-Jesus-Man-Women. There is no mediator except for Jesus. real_truth said: Jesus is God. Are you saying there is more than one God? It is actually GOD-CHRIST-MAN-WOMAN. real_truth, Are you saying that Jesus isn't Christ? | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.2 |
realtruth, Using similar Words of Jesus Christ, I ask you, "Who do you say Jesus is?" | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Jesus the Christ is the son of the Most High God. Who do you say Jesus is? ( Note the difference in the question, CAREFULLY! ) | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.2 |
Who is Christ? | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
real_truth, Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? Who is the Lord Jesus Christ? Is there more than one Jesus? Is there more than one Christ? Is there more than one Lord Jesus Christ? Is there a difference between Jesus the Christ and the Lord Jesus Christ? ( Note the difference in the question, CAREFULLY! ) I'm sorry, I'm missing something here. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
}TO ALL NON-PASTIME-MEMBERS OF HH: Pro 26:17 He that passeth by, [and] meddleth with strife [belonging] not to him, [is like] one that taketh a dog by the ears. } | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 464 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
real_truth , Is the above directed at me? If so, just want you to know that I understand and agree. Now, can you answer my questions since seeking truth pertaining to the Lord Jesus Christ is NOT meddling in strife and it does belong to me since I belong to Him. | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.2 |
realtruth, Are you going to answer the question? | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
After you answer my question. just Curious, havent you meddled here? | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 75 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.2 |
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 465 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
just Curious, havent you meddled here? Depends what your definition of "meddle" is. Someone posts "God-Jesus-Man-Women"; you respond, "It is actually GOD-CHRIST-MAN-WOMAN." This is a discussion board open to any registered user. I am a registered user. I would like to discuss your statement. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 208 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Actually, Just curious, I was talking about some other conversations. I agree, truth Buyer.Jesus Chist is the Son of God. My turn. Now, who is the Living God? | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.2 |
He is the Father of Jesus Christ. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 467 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
real_truth, Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? Who is the Lord Jesus Christ? Is there more than one Jesus? Is there more than one Christ? Is there more than one Lord Jesus Christ? Is there a difference between Jesus the Christ and the Lord Jesus Christ? I am trying to understand how you differentiate between "God-Jesus-Man-Women" and "GOD-CHRIST-MAN-WOMAN" and how the first one implies to you that there is more than one God. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 210 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Just Curious, you meddled in my opinion and IN MY RECOLLECTIONS IN STRIFE WHICH WASN'T YOUR BUSINESS. THEREFORE, you have little in common with me for discussion. Truth Buyer, what is the name of the Christ? What is the name of the Living God, the Father? | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.2 |
The name of the Christ is Jesus. The name of the Living God is YHWH | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 211 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
OH MY, I SEE YOU NEED SOME SERIOUS TEACHING. OK, NO MATTER. I WILL SEE YOU TOMMOROW. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 469 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
real_truth, I reviewed all my posts and am still not sure what you consider "meddling in strife" especially as this is an open forum and a discussion board. I did note several times that I was not familiar with HH but was interested in some of the arguments presented as they would pertain to many of the threads on FACTNet. (BTW, there's a reason I use the name "Just Curious." ) I've also noted that you have repeatedly expressed a desire to stick to doctrine rather than more personal experiences so I thought this was the perfect opportunity to pursue that angle. Apparently, you don't agree. Oh well. (Message edited by Just Curious on May 03, 2005) | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 214 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Before I do this, I wnt to be clear. truth Buyer affirms that Yahweh and Jesus are two different beings. His words: The name of the Christ is Jesus. The name of the Living God is YHWH | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 471 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
Is that what you are saying, truthbuyer? real_truth, Are you going to answer MY questions? Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? Who is the Lord Jesus Christ? Is there more than one Jesus? Is there more than one Christ? Is there more than one Lord Jesus Christ? Is there a difference between Jesus the Christ and the Lord Jesus Christ? I am trying to understand how you differentiate between "God-Jesus-Man-Women" and "GOD-CHRIST-MAN-WOMAN" and how the first one implies to you that there is more than one God. You seem to be implying that truthbuyer does not believe in the trinity. You yourself imply that Jesus is not Christ. Why can't you all just say what you believe and be done with it? What is HH's doctrine on the trinity? | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 216 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Just Curious, I am trying to have a discussion with Truth Buyer about Christ Jesus. We were exchanging questions, I am sure both of us felt we had points to lead up to. By insisting on shouting your way into the exchange, you are succeeding in silencing me. You are trying to force me ( mind-controlling tactic ) to affirm and defend HH doctrine, and I am not interested. I was about to affirm and defend my own. But you're insisting I affirm HH doctrine, so effectively, you are shutting me down, since you know I am trying not to do that, since I cannot speak for them. Why don't you just chomp your tongue, and control yourself? Sheesh!} | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 473 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
I'm sorry, real_truth, looking back over the posts, I am under the impression that I asked the first question. But if truthbuyer also prefers that I stay out of the conversation, so be it. You might note, though, that I was addressing questions to him/her, as well. I find it interesting that you want me to be quiet when you're the one who has amassed 216 posts in the last couple of weeks! | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 220 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
SINCE YOU SAY SORRY, I DO FORGIVE YOU.  | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.54 |
Though my wife and I never joined HH, we were "recruited" one afternoon while attending a fair. What was going on in your life at the time you came into contact with HH? My wife and I had five children at the time. We were looking at making some lifestyle changes toward a more agrarian lifestyle. HH was attractive because of the various things they did akin to this type of lifestyle. What was your initial reaction to or feeling about the group? It was all positive. We weren't looking for anything negative. We enjoyed what we saw and heard (We attended a few fairs). We new nothing about HH doctrine, at the time. What first interested you in the group? We first encountered the group during a homeschool book fair in Arlington Texas. Were you misled during recruitment? My "recruitment" consisted of a better part of an afternoon during one of the fairs. We were approached by one of the top leaders. He started asking about our reasons for attending the fair. When I started asking about Doctrine, the answers were vague, at best. I continued to ask this gentleman questions regarding Christ. They became more vague and evasive. Though we talked for quite awhile, none of my pointed questions about Christ were answered in the least. That ended any consideration of joining HH. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 240 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
Recruitment? You guys make it sound so sinister. Isn't that what every church and religion under the sun does? tries to win over new members? Geesh, you guys are ridiculous.} | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.54 |
I was simply using the terms provided at the beginning of the thread. I even put the word in quote marks to make that point. If there's another term that would prove to be more delicate to your sensitivities, please, provide one. I'm sure that all posts to this thread from now on could include this softer, gentler term. By the way, I think you missed the point. Don't all churches, when trying to convince somone to join their ranks, tend to answer questions posed to them rather than evade them? I thought the intent was to be open and honestly truthful, not evasively secretive. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 241 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.203 |
IVE ALREADY PROVEN THAT EVERY CHURCH HAS A PRESENTATION. THEY DONT EXPECT YOU TO KNOW, HEAR, OR ACCEPT EVERYTHING AT FIRST, NOR DO THEY SHARE IT ALL AT ONCE. ANSWER MY THREAD TO YOU ON THE MAIN BOARD, SIR! | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.54 |
The questions that I asked concerned THE CORE DOCTRINE OF SCRIPTURE!!!!!!!!!!THE DIVINITY and THE ETERNAL PREEXISTENCE OF CHRIST is not some obscure point of any church's doctrine or policy. In fact, the eternal veracity, or lack thereof, of everything they do is determined by this one Doctrine, CHRIST COME IN THE FLESH!!!!!!!!! Of course, if they couldn't confess this one essential point, then, I presume that they were confessing truthfully. I believe Scripture addresses the ability, or lack thereof, to confess that CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH!!!!! | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 481 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
IVE ALREADY PROVEN THAT EVERY CHURCH HAS A PRESENTATION. THEY DONT EXPECT YOU TO KNOW, HEAR, OR ACCEPT EVERYTHING AT FIRST, NOR DO THEY SHARE IT ALL AT ONCE. real_truth, You've "proven"? How, by stating that it is so? So your statements are the standard of proof? And before you tell me to quit "meddling," don't forget that you just spoke for "every church". Since I go to church, I guess that qualifies me for this conversation. I obviously can't answer for HH, but I can answer for my fellowship. When you walk in, what you see is what you get! There is no hidden agenda, no "presentation" for outsiders, no withholding of information. Ask a question, get a straightforward answer. If you like what you see, come back for more. But you won't get any big surprises the second or third or eighteenth or seventy-second time! | ||
| dowen (dowen) New member Username: dowen Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.54.214.51 |
Truthbuyer, you told a yarn earlier about how you were at a craft fair, a leader sat down to talk to you, and whenever you asked him pointed questions he would be evasive, or give vague answers. There is something fishy here. You have made yourself out to be the most vocal opponent of HH on this board, but by your own admission you never could get answers from HH's leaders???!!! You have a lot of guts to be so vocal over a matter that according to you, you know nothing about. You admit when you tried to find something out about HH, you couldn't!! Once again, you have been found morally bankrupt and talking out of both sides of your mouth. Just_curious, many people here have tried to make the point that Homestead is hiding their beliefs by not answering questions supposedly posed by visitors, or nonsense along those lines. I can only speak from personal experience but I have never had a problem getting answers from any member or leader in Homestead. I think some of these people simply didn't like the answers they were given so they closed their ear's and heart's. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 245 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.141 |
Just curious, I stand corrected. I didn't prove it. Point well taken. A careless word on my part. Most denominations do though, at least the mainline ones. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 482 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
Thanks, real_truth. And I can't speak to denominations, mainline or otherwise. Now, can anyone tell me where I can get information on the "church" aspect of HH? The website makes no reference to it that I can find. | ||
| real_truth (real_truth) Intermediate Member Username: real_truth Post Number: 263 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 167.127.163.141 |
Sure, go visit their fair, its a neat experience. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 483 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
I might do that if I'm in the area around that time, but is the fair where they have church services? | ||
| love_everybody (love_everybody) New member Username: love_everybody Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.112.0.204 |
No, they do not have church at the fair, but they do have crafts, food and singing though. | ||
| truthbuyer (truthbuyer) Member Username: truthbuyer Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 216.82.193.56 |
Just curious, I apologize for missing the fact that you asked me a question in a post above. I will presume that, since then, it has been answered by other posts from me. If not, let me know. | ||
| coin (coin) New member Username: coin Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.227.140.26 |
Thank you dowen, that is the "real-truth". | ||
| coin (coin) New member Username: coin Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.227.140.26 |
Just curious you mentioned earlier that real truth had posted 216 times, by last count you have more than doubled that number and you were never a member. I think this is a little more than "just curious" (Message edited by coin on May 04, 2005) | ||
| love_everybody (love_everybody) New member Username: love_everybody Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.112.0.204 |
coin, I'd love to here from you! E-mail me now if you can at: airforcebomber87@yahoo.com Thanks! | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
coin, Yes, I have close to double the number of posts of real_truth but I have been on FACTNet for over 6 months and only a fraction of those posts are on this thread. love_everybody, So where/when do they have church services? truthbuyer, That's okay, straight answers just seem hard to come by on this thread. | ||
| rbeechner (rbeechner) New member Username: rbeechner Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.150.12.27 |
just_curious, They hold church services on the property in a large sanctuary building that sits adjacent to the office/literature building. But don't get your hopes up. Show up on a given Sunday and you'd almost certainly be stopped at the door. Sunday services are closed to visitors (at least they were up to 3 years ago when I left the group, and I gather from the CT article that this is still the case). A doorkeeper sits at the entrance to the sanctuary to head off any visitor who walks in unannounced. If you are a reporter, college professor, or other VIP, they will sometimes hold a "special" service or all-church picnic for your benefit, where there will be food, praise music, and general goodwill. No harsh words, no ridicule or mockery directed against members from the pulpit, no loud prayers begging God not to strike someone dead. It will be a very carefully crafted event designed to reinforce the group's "simple agrarian community" image-- a mini-fair, in essence. One first-time visitor, a reporter, described it as a "picture perfect" experience. Problem is, these visitor meetings give a misleading picture of ministry within the group. They don't represent a true Sunday meeting, when no visitors are present, and where you'd be much more likely to see the harsh authoritarian practices that I, and others here, have spoken of. To do that-- to see where the rubber really meets the road-- you'd have to somehow get into the meeting without your presence being detected, and there's fat chance of that. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Intermediate Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 500 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
I see. So is it correct to assume that the Christianity Today reporter never observed a "members only" Sunday service? And only members or ex-members of HH can bear witness to how they are conducted? | ||
| rbeechner (rbeechner) New member Username: rbeechner Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.143.103.177 |
Yes sir, that is correct. The CT reporter never saw the real deal, nor anything even approaching it. He got the VIP treatment. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) Advanced Member Username: just_curious Post Number: 506 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.227.84.69 |
The article cites that "43 families" make up HH. Does that number represent only those who are welcome at the Sunday services or all those who identify with HH? Did the CT reporter communicate with any ex-members of HH? How often do new members join and how often do people leave? | ||
| rbeechner (rbeechner) New member Username: rbeechner Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 65.143.102.168 |
just_curious, With regard to the CT article, I need to clarify a point. The article itself was not written by a reporter, but by a Baylor University professor. The CT reporter (an editor, actually) came to Waco later, after the article came out, in response to a string of calls and letters critical of the article and of HH. He attended (as an observer) a recovery workshop conducted by the Watchman Fellowship for former members of HH. I can't say for sure whether the Baylor professor talked to any former members; the airy tone of his article suggests to me that he did not. The CT editor definitely did talk to former members, a goodly number of us, and he heard several powerful testimonies of deliverance from bondage and new-found freedom in Christ. The next day--a Sunday--he went to HH and got the VIP treatment I spoke of. He left Waco perplexed, as I take it from a subsequent email he sent, trying to square the stories of abuse he heard on Saturday with the "picture perfect" experience of a HH picnic on Sunday. It grieves me, thinking about it, the heart-felt testimonies I heard that Saturday, and the way the group's leaders twist our words, making any criticism at all of the group seem like the rantings of a "mob" bent on destroying the group. You've read the posts written here by the group's supporters, and they're former members, but it gives you the gist of what we face. It can all seem very daunting at times. But God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in time of trouble. (Message edited by rbeechner on May 09, 2005) | ||
| old_watchman Member Username: old_watchman Post Number: 78 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.15.65.110 |
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| old_watchman Member Username: old_watchman Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.15.65.110 |
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| seekingglory Intermediate Member Username: seekingglory Post Number: 158 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.162.130.158 |
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