| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
A big part of the truth is the annual conventions. Convention preps are held about a month before conventions when the workers gather on a convention ground and plan for projects and other cleaning to get the grounds ready for the annual convention. Chairs are set up. Visiting workers gather on the grounds. Professing people or friends are expected to attend their nearest 4 day convention in North America. There are 3 2 hour meetings except for Sunday evenings where there are just 2 meetings. Meetings are held from Thursdays until Sundays with meetings beginning at 10:00, 2:30 and 7:00. Meeting format during the conventions are as follows: 15 minutes before meeting begins, friends quietly gather in the meeting shed or tent. 1. Worker gives out one or 2 hymns from Hymns Old and New book. 2. Professing people pray. 3. Main worker prays. 4. Hymn given out by the workers. 5. 2 younger workers often sister workers will speak. 6. Hymn 7. Workers will pass around cordless microphones and the friends will give their testimonies according to the sections they are sitting. 8. Hymn and everyone stands up. 9. Main speaker speaks for 35 to 45 minutes. 10. Grace is sung at convention and friends head to the cookhouse except after the 7:00 meeting. | ||
| Anonymous |
A website containing a list of conventions in the "truth" sect can be found by clicking the following link: http://www.angelfire.com/punk/meetings Proper convention etiquette includes women wearing dresses, sleaves in their blouses, men wearing long pants (ties on Sunday), no clothing containing writing, talking in a soft voice, limited movement out of the shed unless while the friends are singing, no music on the grounds, and check to see if men and women sit on different sides in the convention cookhouse. | ||
| Anonymous |
I would like for other professing or formerly professing people to mention their experiences during convention. I remember playing airplanes with the paper cups from the water fountains. I remember helping out washing dishes, carrying dirty dishes to be cleaned and rinsed and other cookhouse help. Young people loved to wait on tables and say "water, water,water". Limited beverages-tea, coffee, milk, and water. Meals were free. No soft drinks. Sitting on hard tables with no back support. I remember the workers having their own tables. Professing people donate all of their labor on the grounds considering it a "privilege". Meals are very simple-stew, bread, veggies etc.. Men and women are beginning to sit next to each other in the cookhouse. | ||
| Anonymous |
Life in the sleeping quarters can be fun or pure hell depending upon how you feel about snoring, rowdy kids, hot barn lofts or atticks at the top of a shed, worker reprimands for not getting to bed early enough, boys sleeping away from mama and out of control since unprofessing father is not on the grounds, older people will read and pray which is sweet, shaving, narrow beds for one person to sleep, and other things. But if you think convention premises are primitive today you should have been around in the 1970s and before. I mean pissing in a gutter urinal, washing your hands in a barrell, no flush toilets, etc.. Yet the workers encouraged the professing people to spend the nights on the grounds lest they would lose the spirit of convention. | ||
| Anonymous |
I think the annual conventions keep the truth sect intact since several visiting workers often strive to encourage the friends to keep up "the struggle dying to the world, flesh and devil. Friends feel that they must obey a worker when he or she speaks from "the platform" since worker words come from God. Some workers would jump on the friends for long testimonies, not spending enough time reading/praying, poor meeting attendance, dressing like the world or having worldly objects in the home. Yet the friends love to sit in a meeting and hear the workers preach assuming that one must pay a price of giving up certain things and denying yourself certain things in order to be a "true child of God". | ||
| So |
SO WHAT?????????????????????????????????????? | ||
| HA |
SEEM'S LIKE YOU LOT WOULD DIE IF YOU HAD NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. HAVE YOU GOT NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR LIVES? WHAT DOES THIS SPIRIT OF COMPLAINT DO FOR YOU? DOES IT SATISFY YOUR BASIC HUMAN NATURE? NOTHING IN THESE POSTS SUGGESTS THAT YOU PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIANS. | ||
| Anonymous |
Some professing people say "convention is like heaven". Some in the "truth" sect say convention is as close to heaven on earth. One way to get respect from the workers is to speak about having such a wonderful convention. You are never supposed to complain about a worker, meeting, convention or anything associated with the truth religion. Never. Many friends feel that convention is the beginning of a new spiritual year believing that they must "make vows" each year. Professing people are encouraged to give their testimony each year in their "home convention". Hubert Childers at Eaton Ohio would gently tap someone on the shoulder and ask them "have you given your testimony yet". Many professing people feel "spiritually weak" just before convention and often comment that convention helps keep them spiritually alive for another year. Conventions are a big part of the professing experience in the truth/2x2/way. | ||
| Anonymous |
Despite worker control during conventions, most dating occurs during conventions since marriages to outsiders are banned! Professing people (especially older ones) are opposed to "marrying outside" the Truth religion. As a result of worker enforced rules on marrying inside the truth, the number of young people in the truth has decreased. Younger professing people travel several states away to find worker-approved elgible people. I feel that most professing marriages trace their origins to conventions! Dating occurs during meetings (passing notes among teenagers), walking down the lane at convention, working around each other in the cookhouse, and in the parking lot after meeting is over. Some senior workers will police the parking lot and round up the straying young people from the parking lots at 10:00 each of the 4 nights of convention. | ||
| Anonymous |
http://home.wwdb.org/resource/BRG11-6Dot.html The Berry family's experiences on the Jackson Mississippi convention grounds 1959-1991 Grounds are currently owned by another Berry family no relation to the previous owners. People forget that head workers have total control over the use of the convention farm-buiding locations, construction projects, date for preps etc.. The owners are often not appreciated by some professing people in the "truth". | ||
| Anonymous |
I think workers enjoy preps. Getting away from their companions and fields for awhile. A break from speaking in the gospel meetings. A break from the problems in their field. Several of the workers get together and have a good time. Their life is so rough that they need some consistency for awhile. They can sleep in the barn for awhile. Same bed. Eat in the cookhouse-same dinner spot. Thank goodness for preps. | ||
| Anonymous |
If you leave the convention grounds for a motel or your own home, you lose some of the "spirit of convention". Doesn't that expression sound cultish to you?? Some professing people in the "truth" say that "convention is as close to heaven" as you can get on earth. | ||
| Anonymous |
enectady Daily Gazette; Date:Aug 14, 2003; Section:Front Page; Page:1 ‘Two by Twos’ plan to sing and to pray By JILL BRYCE Gazette Reporter GUILDERLAND — Up to 800 members of a conservative Christian group are expected to attend a four-day religious gathering that begins today at the Knaggs Farm off Route 20. The sect takes no official name for itself or its teachings but is commonly referred to by several names, including "Two by Twos" (because ministers go in pairs); "The Truth" and "The Way." Although the group has an estimated 600,000 members worldwide, and thousands in the United States, few people know of it. Critics say the group is shrouded in secrecy. Some former members call it a cult. Yet members like Charles Steffen of Schenectady, one of the ministers or "workers," say the group has nothing to hide. He said the group has held its gatherings of "believers" on the Knaggs Farm since 1921. "There is nothing to hinder anyone from coming," said Steffen. "We are expecting several hundred people, up to 800 depending on weather. They come from the area and all over New York and New England." Steffen, who invited a reporter to the annual convention, insists nothing is being hidden. "There is nothing secretive about it. It’s not a public gathering, but a gathering of believers." The first religious service begins at 10 this morning, followed by additional services at 2:30 and 7:30 p.m. The same schedule is in place for Friday and Saturday. There will be no 7:30 p.m. service Sunday. Services include singing, prayers and several speakers from around the country. "We have a permit for the gathering. People will tent on the grounds, and they will stay in buildings, which have been inspected and approved by the state and local authorities," said Steffen. Roots in Ireland The group was founded by Scottish evangelist William Irvine in Ireland in 1897, after he had grown increasingly critical of organized religious institutions. The first convention was held in 1903. Sacred texts include the King James version of the Bible and "Hymns Old and New." There are no churches. Services are held on Sundays in members’ homes. Members do not identify themselves by the name of the group. "We take no denomination name for the same reason that Christ gave no name to his followers," said Steffen. Albany County officials were at the property near the Watervliet Reservoir on Wednesday and last week conducted pre-inspections to ensure everything was in compliance, said county spokesman Jim Plastiras. The group was issued a temporary residence permit and inspectors will be on the grounds today for further inspections. Plastiras said the group has put money into the property for improvements for fire safety and an adequate water supply. ‘Very cooperative’ Don Albright, Guilderland’s chief fire inspector, said Wednesday the property looks excellent. "They are very cooperative, any request we have of them they immediately take care of. Since we started doing inspections, they’ve never been a problem with us, the Health Department or Building Department." Don Cropsey, Guilderland’s chief building and zoning inspector, said Wednesday that all buildings are in compliance with state and local codes. When violations were discovered several years ago, modifications were required. Cropsey said one of the major deficiencies was with drinking water, but town water lines were put in and water is now available for all the buildings. "They were very cooperative, any concerns raised in 2000 were addressed and modifications were done," said Cropsey. In the past, the group ran into problems after former sect member Edward K. Williams of Duanesburg discovered code violations with buildings on the 165-acre property. He wrote to Cropsey about the violations in 1998 and the state Department of State investigated. "There were serious wrongs in those buildings," said Williams. The town inspected the property prior to the 2000 convention. Buildings that had been permitted as farm sheds were men’s and women’s dormitories and had washrooms, which violated code. Hundreds of people who planned to stay in the dormitories at the 2000 convention had to stay in hotels or camp on the farm. Cropsey said the group quickly acted to clear up code violations. Yet for the 62-year-old Williams, the discovery of the code violations raised other concerns and questions about the religious group his family had been immersed in for three generations. He and another former "Two by Twos" member, Jim Bradley, raised questions in interviews this week about how the sect handles its funds and said there’s a pressing need for accountability in the organization. After he raised questions several years ago, Williams said he was told he was not invited to attend the convention. He is no longer a member of the group. "I want accountability. They have accountability to no one," said Williams, who said the group has "cultic mind control." "At the convention, the workers get gifts that could be $500 or $1,000. No one makes decisions about the money before going to the leaders." Bradley, who joined the "Two by Twos" at age 24, and recently left the sect voluntarily, said he wants the group to be honest with its members. No members are allowed to ask about the movement’s founding, said Bradley. While members insist their mission dates back to the first century and was founded by Jesus, it was formed in 1897. "I want them to be honest, not subversive," said Bradley, who suggests people check Web sites on the group. Beliefs are hazy According to the essay "Christians in Hiding: the No Name Sect" by Benton Johnson, the "Two by Twos" do not have a systematic theology and its doctrine is rarely discussed. Because there is nothing officially written by the group itself, there is much haziness and controversy as to the actual beliefs of the group and the leadership can remain anonymous, according to Johnson. The group is not incorporated as a tax-exempt religious group. Because it has no specific formal name, it has been able to avoid publicity. There also — apparently — is no central governing body, such as a diocese, or controlling hierarchy, such as a bishop or pope. Authority is organized locally among the workers and their leaders, who shun publicity and are often unknown outside their sect. There are about 85 conventions a year, and those who preach — the workers — travel in same-sex pairs of a younger worker with an older, more experienced worker. The workers remain celibate, though throughout history, married couples have been allowed to be workers within the movement. The workers rely on employed members of the group for provisions and remain in the homes of the member hosts for months at a time. Donations by members are done by mail or in person. No collection is taken and no acknowledgement is made, according to Johnson. Funds are allocated by the leaders. Seeking accountability Williams, whose children are still members of the group, said the group wants nothing documented or written. He said the emergence of the Internet has opened the door to questions about the religion. Williams also said the Knaggs property was registered in 1990 as the Knaggs Oakland Realty Inc., with the state Department of State. This is significant, he said, because individuals own percentages, but no one knows whom shares were issued to. "I am not a whistle-blower trying to get even, my goal is to root out deceit and make them accountable," said Williams. "Accountability is the single biggest word." He and Bradley are hoping that a state or federal agency will investigate the group and its finance system, although they haven’t formally brought their concerns to any agency. | ||
| Altamont NY 2003 |
I went to Altamont Convention Thursday night.............. I talked to Leslie White and asked him if the secret sect was true, Leslie also read the secret sect and told me after the Thursday convention meeting and in the meeting shed, that 95 percent of the secret sect was TRUE. Then he said that he said that it was restarted in 1897!!!!!! James Bradley James Bradley Registered User (8/16/03 10:06 am) Reply Altamont Convention.................... I was over to Ed Williams house, Channel 10 was there, .......WTEN which is a "ABC" AFFILIATE. THEY WANTED TO KNOW HOW TO GET TO CONVENTION GROUNDS, I SAID TO WTEN THAT I WOULD SHOW THEM THE WAY. ON THE GROUNDS WE MADE OUR WAY UP AND ASKED DON BIXBY WHERE WE WOULD FIND CHARLES STEFFEN, HE SAID THAT CHARLES WASN'T THERE AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHEN HE WOULD BE BACK. THE TV CREW WAS LEAVING, I SAW CHARLES EXIT A BUILDING AND ANNOUNCED TO THE TV CREW THAT CHARLES WAS THERE AND INTRODUCED THEM TO HIM. CHARLES SAID HOW DID THE TV CREW GET TO CONVENTION GROUNDS, I SAID THAT THEY WERE AT ED'S HOUSE AND I LEAD THEM THERE. HE THANKED ME!!!! IN FRONT OF THE TV CREW HE ASK ME TO MEETING AND I TOOK HIM UP ON IT. CHANNEL 10 ASKED IF THEY COULD TAKE SOME PICTURES, CHARLES SAID THAT THEY COULD ASKED THE OWNER'S OF THE PROPERTY, I SAID THAT IT WAS INCORPORATED, BUT DONNY KNAGGS SAID THAT THEY COULD TAKE NO PICTURES. THEY LEFT.......BUT THEN THEY WENT ACROSS THE ROAD WHICH IS NOT PART OF THE GROUNDS AND SET UP THE CAMERA.......NANCY KNAGGS THEN SAID TO ME WHY ARE THEY TAKING PICTURES, I SAID TO NANCY KNAGGS WHY DON'T YOU GO OVER AND ASK THEM TO STOP. LAST NIGHT I WENT TO THE FRIDAY NIGHT MEETING, SITTING NEXT TO MIKE DI CHIARA (WORKER) AFTER MEETING HE TOLD ME THAT HE WOULD ANSWER ANY QUESTION'S THAT I HAD. I MENTIONED ABOUT WILLIAM IRVINE BEING A WORKER AND HIM STARTING THE TRUTH, HE SAID LOOK OVER TO THE GRAIN BINNARY'S AND SAID IF YOU TAKE ONE SEED OF CORN AND PUT IT IN THE GROUND AND IF IT GROWS IT WILL BE CORN AND NOTHING ELSE, IT'S LIKE THE TRUTH. THEN HE TOLD ME THAT I COULDN'T ATTACK THEM AND COME TO MEETING, HE SAID MAYBE I COULD FIND SOMEPLACE WHERE I COULD ATTACK NO-ONE. I SAID THAT HE THINKS THAT IF I GO SOMEWHERE ELSE THAT I WOULD GO TO HELL, AND IF THIS IS THE TRUTH THEN MY HOME IS WITH HIM. HE SAID THAT I WASN'T WELCOME..................JAMES BRADLEY James Bradley Registered User (8/16/03 10:28 am) Reply Altamont Convention................. Other questions I asked Mike DiChiara...worker......I told him about a member of the Owner's of convention and a worker and said that something not right about the relationship, instead of saying that he will look into this, he said that it is betweem them and not you. I also said that when Loran Lockhardt died, I told my wife that they will moved meeting, but did they ever move it, never!!!!!!---it stayed in the same home and workers have an address there and men workers stay there......My children were there, at the home in question, I had to tell my girls that no man could stay with you as long as if they are un-married......In the Bible...it says that they should stay away from the appearance of evil......Mike laughed it off saying it wasn't wrong...............Jim Bradley | ||
| Anonymous |
Topic: Facing the "world" after convention (Read 58 times) hmm Guest Facing the "world" after convention « Thread started on: Today at 06:34am » The professing people dread to go to school or work after the 4 days of convention. To the friends, the convention is a 4 day heaven on earth. They dread all of the temptations that await them after leaving the grounds and how Satan knows they are stronger and he will try to take away what they have heard in the convention. Logged shushannah Guest Re: Facing the "world" after convention « Reply #1 on: Today at 09:30am » I remember well that feeling of disappointment that it was time to go home. That I wouldn't see the young ones from different areas again until probably the following year or maybe special meetings. That sense of family and togetherness. I have also found this in the church camps I have been to. Its being together for 4 days that unites people because they pull together with the work that needs doing. Its just the same as convention. You have meetings and ministry. To all the people that still go to meetings I would just like to encourage you that Jesus loves you, that his love endures forever. Allow him to be your strength your sheild, your strong tower. Have confidence in the Word of God that in Jesus we know we have eternal life through salvation. Do not trust in man but trust in God. Look forward to the next year being a year when you can grow personaly in Him and learn more about Him. Develope your relationship with Him so that when the winds come you can withstand the shaking. He is your rock and your deliverer. Logged yep Guest Re: Facing the "world" after convention « Reply #2 on: Today at 6:03pm » They say "Satan will hit us with unseen struggles and battles after convention". Many will lose the spirit of convention as soon as things don't go their way. They are human but cannot understand that! | ||
| Anonymous |
Removing worldly things after convention « Thread started on: Aug 22nd, 2003, 7:37pm » Much has been mentioned in convention about how we need to "remove things that God puts his finger upon during convention". And about changes that need to be made in our lives. And how Satan wants to keep us from feeling our need. And how Satan wants us to feel that we are OK and don't need to make changes. So much fuss about changes, the struggle, pressing on, etc. Bottom line: The focus in convention is upon OURSELVES and what we can/should do instead of what GOD WANTS to work into OUR LIVES. Thus no praise nor joy. Logged RACHELSTEPHENS Full Member member is offline PM Gender: Female Posts: 169 Re: Removing worldly things after convention « Reply #1 on: Aug 23rd, 2003, 11:12am » This is why after about 2 weeks of being back out in the "WORLD" You feel sad, depressed and like an utter failure. Logged Rachel yep Guest Re: Removing worldly things after convention « Reply #2 on: Aug 24th, 2003, 6:44pm » Amen Rachel. Professing people get so spiritually fired up by the end of the convention that they leave the grounds with a "to do" list a mile long! They worry that Satan will steal what they hear and how unknown tests will await them after convention. And then they will be back to their old unhappy selves again bashing themselves in meeting for "coming short" of what they should be. Logged | ||
| Anonymous |
"Giving your testimony at convention" « Thread started on: Aug 24th, 2003, 06:21am » Seems like the professing people feel like they HAVE to give their testimony once during their home convention. Once the main speaker has identified which section of the shed/tent has a chance to give their testimony, some feel pressured to give their testimony. Some people lack the courage to do so but once someone in their family testifies, they give their testimony. Obligations and pressure. And those who have been baptised are pressured to "give their testimony" Sunday AM. People stand up with their hearts racing inside their chest. Microphone is passed to them. Person loses train of thought and starts sobbing. Eyes from the platform are glued upon the person "giving their testimony". I remember getting an earful from professing family members when I didn't give my testimony. I felt like I let God down when I didn't "give my testimony". One lady said once that "when we fail to give our testimony, we let Satan have a victory". Logged RACHELSTEPHENS Full Member member is offline PM Gender: Female Posts: 169 Re: "Giving your testimony at convention" « Reply #1 on: Aug 24th, 2003, 10:01am » I have also heard this many times at our Convention. If you do not stand up and give your testimony Satan got a victory from you. Makes you feel if you can not get up the nerve to speak that you are a failure and let Satan have his victory. Logged Rachel hmm Guest Re: "Giving your testimony at convention" « Reply #2 on: Aug 24th, 2003, 6:30pm » I hate how baptised people are asked to give their testimonies first. If testimonies are so important, then why in the Eastern US have the workers omitted testimonies from the Sunday PM meetings? I am actually glad that they have shortened the PM meeting. | ||
| Anonymous |
passing cordless microphones at convention « Thread started on: Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:17am » If you haven't professed in the last 10 years, you probably don't know what I mean by "cordless microphones". When testimony time at convention occurs, 2 young men will pass around the microphones to the section giving their testimonies during the meeting. Why do the workers usually pick men who are wearing a tie? Also why aren't women chosen to pass around the microphones. I mean doesn't this give the impression that gender discrimination might be occuring? Logged Greg Lee Guest Re: passing cordless microphones at convention « Reply #1 on: Aug 23rd, 2003, 11:55am » The man is the stronger vessel...the woman is not to teach the man...the seven deacons chosen were men...just a few examples of scripture (paraphrased) to allow choosing men over women to perform certain functions. As for the tie, the general thought is a respectful - appearing or being one''s best - for those the tie wearer is among. Logged Gender Discrimination Guest Re: passing cordless microphones at convention « Reply #2 on: Aug 23rd, 2003, 12:57pm » Goof Grief! That makes me cringe! Gender discrimination is appropriate is many things, and when we become gender blind, God will put an end to it quickly by continuing of have the females bear the children! Get a grip! Logged Emma Guest Re: passing cordless microphones at convention « Reply #3 on: Aug 24th, 2003, 04:27am » Cordless microphones were being used in Convention in Victoria, Australia while I was still part of the 2x2s (and that was nearly 10 years ago). I didn't notice the gender discrimination - however they did seem to be passed out by 2 brother workers (very seriously). What I did notice however was the fact that the microphone was given the same respect as the bread and wine used for the emblems - not professing people were definately not allowed to pass on the microphone. Nothing is more silly than the sight of a professing person grimly struggling to reach over 2 or 3 nonprofessing people to pass on a microphone. Regards, Emma | ||
| Anonymous |
Being useful in the "kingdom"-responsibility « Thread started on: Aug 23rd, 2003, 06:27am » In the truth, there is WAY TOO much emphasis on our "place" in "God's kingdom". People seem to be seeking to have open homes, conventions, meetings in their homes, or a higher position in the work. You hear so much about "filling our place". The only "place" Jesus taught was seeking the "lowest place". Sister worker Amanda Clites once spoke about Queen Vashi in Esther not filling her place. She said "i used to be guilty of speaking about my little place but now I feel that my place in God's kingdom might be bigger than I can feel". Workers are telling the friends that with the older ones "going into eternity", places of responsibility are falling into the hands of younger people. Senior workers wonder who will fill useful places in the future. And the ever growing "need of the harvest field". OK. Isn't there too much emphasis on "place" which creates class divisions within the truth?? Don't we see "elders" and owners of open homes hanging around each other at convention while weak saints are also hanging around each other. Some are feeling inferior to others while others feel superior to others. That is one drawback to the homeless ministry. Elevation above the rest of the friends can create a feeling of superiority. And since the professing people have isolated and segregated themselves from mainstream Christianity, feelings of self righteousness and all can occur. Let's get over this obsession with PLACE!! | ||
| Popeye |
For the author of the above post: It is what it is (the 2x2 cult). The obsession with PLACE is an identifying characteristic. Either learn to like it the way it is and remain, or move along. You can't expect a leopard remove it's spots and still be a leopard! | ||
| Anonymous |
Professing people think that convention is the closest place to heaven that we can experience on this earth. Professing people leave the convention grounds making vows and wanting to show the "lost and perishing world" that THEY have SOMETHING different than the worldly people have-the only true way. Friends will give up books, music and other "worldly things" only to buy more of them after their spiritual high wears off. I have heard of extreme reactions such as burning books, beating a radio/tv with an ax and professing women burning their pants. So much radical and fanatical behavior! | ||
| Anonymous |
I always considered giving my testimony at convention to be my vow to God. And when my nerves failed me to stand up and speak in front of 800 people, I felt like I let God down. Too bad that I was only pleasing some worker on the platform! | ||
| Anonymous |
The level of secrecy and paranoia seems to be gripping the truth to the point that professing members are in the dark about worker decisions. Workers only publish one list per household. Lists of visiting worker for special meetings or conventions may not be published. Speaking lists are no longer posted and available unless you ask a worker for one. Ridiculous. Crazy. Why are the workers so secretive? What are they hiding? | ||
| Anonymous |
What is this bit about machine sheds? What could possibly be happening in a machine shed? | ||
| Anonymous |
Conventions (annual 4 day revivals) in "the truth" take place in machine sheds. When workers (preachers) speak from the platform in the front of a machine shed, the worker's words are said to come from heaven. | ||
| Anonymous |
Workers discourage professing people from leaving the grounds though they are more tolerant of this today.Professing people feel that they lose some of the spirit of convention when they leave the grounds for a motel-evil temptation of watching television. Professing people try to immerse themselves into a mini-communal living for 4 days to encourage them to keep up the struggle of professing for another year. | ||
| Anonymous |
Workes spend several weeks away from their "field" getting the convention grounds ready. The spirit of cooperation is seen and felt during convention. | ||
| Anonymous |
Workers prefer professing people get all 4 days of their home convention. | ||
| Anonymous |
Professing people enjoy the spirit of convention. They are glad to be away from "the world" for 4 days. Convention to them is heaven on earth. Friends fear that "Satan will hit them harder as they leave the convention grounds". And how Satan wants to steal what they hear at convention and keep them from remembering all they have heard. Satan is also considered working against "God's people" so they won't put into practice what God spoke to them through the servants on the platform. At convention, we often heard about "unseen battles and struggles" that await us after convention! Monday after convention (for those who don't stay on the convention grounds and help with the clean up) is "face the world day" again. I hated being around worldly people at work or school the day following convention! | ||
| Anonymous |
Have you ever eaten convention stew? | ||
| Anonymous |
The convention grounds at Altamont NY is a corporation. Some convention grounds have been willed to the useage of convention and cannot be sold. Carsonville MI has been in Klaty hands since say 1912. Older professing people often will money to be used for convention upgrades like building new buildings or whatever need the workers have for additional money. | ||
| Anonymous |
Workers are spread so thin these days! With the shortages of workers, existing workers spend more time on convention rounds. | ||
| Anonymous |
The 4 day convention event is a throw back to the turn of the 20th century when every person farmed or owned a small business. Professing people have a difficult time getting off of a job on Thursday or Friday! For years, workers would frown on working during the first 2 days of convention though they are relaxing a bit now. | ||
| Anonymous |
Convention grounds are hidden from the view of close neighbors. No signage. No religious verses or sayings on billboards near the grounds. No. You have to enquire about bathrooms, location of cookhouse and meeting sheds. Some conventions do have signs on the bathrooms but often you just follow the men or women to the correct john! | ||
| Anonymous |
The layout of various convention grounds vary some. All either have a meeting shed or meeting tent. And men and women's sleeping quarters or dorms. A cookhouse or tent is close to the meeting shed or tent. Folding chairs will be inside the meeting room. Some also have areas for children and old people to rest in between the meetings. | ||
| Anonymous |
Waiting on tables in the cookhouse is voluntary. It is an honor to serve in "God's kingdom" according to many younger professing people. Thus a young child will go up and down the aisles between the tables saying "water, water, water" or "coffee, coffee". Soft drinks aren't served at many (if any) conventions. | ||
| Anonymous |
Taking notes during convention is OK as long as you take notes for yourself. Don't pass notes around or you will be criticized because of the fear that these notes could pass into "wrong hands". | ||
| Anonymous |
Convention meetings last about 2 hours. Schedule in North America: Thursday 10:00-12:00 AM 2:30-4:30 PM 7:00-8:30 PM Friday 10:00-12:00 AM 2:30-4:30 PM 7:00-8:30 PM Saturday 10:00-12:00 AM 2:30-4:30 PM 7:00-8:30 PM (Meeting tested for outsiders to profess) Sunday 10:00-12:00 AM 2:00-4:00 PM | ||
| Anonymous |
Where in the bible do we read about conventions? I mean some workers will preach about somewhere in the Old Testament where the Lord told the children of Israel to gather in a specific place for a specific reason. But there is no proof of a specific farm being used for 3 or 4 day meetings annualy! They didn't have time to spend of convention rounds. I guess Peter was a speaker at the Carthage convention. Paul spoke at the PM meeting in Thebes. Timothy had the night meeting in Phillipi. And Mark was the Saturday night speaker at Sidon. John had to spend the summer at preps in Damascus. | ||
| Anonymous |
Nothing wrong with conventions. But there is no law that states that professing people must go to all 4 days of their home convention in order to have a chance of being saved. Please! If someone enjoys conventions then wonderful. But if someone chooses another church service then great. If someone wants to worship God in private, then it is THEIR choice. | ||
| Anonymous |
I remember making paper airplanes by the thousands and throwing them around. The convention at Madisonville always had high concentrations of sulfur in the water and every time that I would take a break to use the bathroom, I would run to get a drink of water and hold my nose. This usually wasted extra time that I should have been in meeting. I would always get that evil eye from my parents when I would return to the tent. During services, I was a pro at writing and passing notes and pictures to my friends which would also bring the ire from my parents. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Anonymous, Did you know that Mr. Hawkins age 85 has been pretty sick lately? | ||
| Anonymous |
If you were at Madisonville convention in the 1970s, you were in the presence of some strict workers like Freddie Bryanton, Peter Hunter and Barbara Hilligoss. In the 1980s, Kenneth Lerwick, Jerome Frandle and Leslie Olsen were nicer. In the 1990s, Greg Harger, Glenn Gasser and John Elrod were even nicer. But the only way belief continues to influence the younger workers. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes, I remember Freddie Bryanton, Clarence Mounce, Barbara Hilligoss, Peter Hunter. Kenneth Lerwick and Jerome were two of my favorite workers, they didn't seem to judge anyone and accepted you as you were. I probably know you also. | ||
| Anonymous |
I didn't know about Mr. Hawkins being sick, but I haven't been to Madisonville since 1987. I live in San Antonio, Texas now. | ||
| dethomas |
I am curious to know who you are. My name is Doug Thomas. | ||
| Anonymous |
I remember going to annual conventions in Colorado. My parents would send me with family friends. It could be great fun at times...however, if you weren't in favor with the workers it could be miserable, which it was for me often. Still, I do have fond memories of waiting tables, etc...and to this day, I still like stew with bread which was something I only had at convention. I do recall one particular incident...I had a favorite worker that I really wanted to spend some time with...she told me she didn't have time for me because she wanted to spend it with a friend of mine. When I asked why, she said "because she is worker material." To me this is just so typical of them. | ||
| Anonymous |
Workers use the conventions to preach about worker shortages and "the need of the harvest". Brother workers in Eastern US are in short supply. | ||
| Anonymous |
Convention is seen as the closest to heaven that one can be on the earth! | ||
| Anonymous |
Will there be a convention at Pulaski VA in 2004? AJ Smith farm at Robinson Tract VA?? | ||
| Anonymous |
I admire the spirit of brotherhood and cooperation found amongst the friends and workers during preps and convention work days. All of the work and equipment is freely donated. Professing people lend trucks, bull dozers, food, tools, etc. in order to have another convention!! Occasionally a friend or worker may talk harshly to someone else on the grounds but in most cases everyone is nice toward one another. I have memories of professing people working on the roof, sweeping out hay and manure from the barns, patching roofs, guys in pickup trucks hauling off garbage, setting up chairs, sweeping the floors, working on the microphones, screwing bolts to the platform, moving beds in the sleeping quarters (rough job), cleaning pots and pans in the cookhouse, etc.. | ||
| Cheers |
Yes it is just wonderfull to be part of the people who practice the love of Christ one toward another. | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm not sure what the point of this whole message board is... it seems to be a lot of random postings thrown together, rather than an actual conversation about these things. anyway, i am a current member of the truth, or whatever you all want to refer to it as. Fear not, though, for i am not here to preach to you about your "complaining" as others have.. i am not here to say that you have a bad spirit etc. i see that there is a mixture on this message board of people who are of the truth and people who are not... i am just curious as to all of this talk about convention.. are we praising it on this message board, or mocking it? my curiousity got the better of me, and i had to post this message.. like you all have said though, the workers will "jump on you" for certain things.. so i feel i must remain anonymous | ||
| Anonymous |
Most former and present professing people have good and bad experiences at convention. Good-Meeting with old friends we haven't seen in a year, dating, stew, singing, time away from work in order to settle down and hearing good preaching.Also when most of your family is professing, convention can be like another family reunion. Camping in the field in a motor home/tent or camper. Getting rowdy in the sleeping quarters during convention until a brother worker gives you a talk or a frown! Bad-Some workers will preach AT the friends for being "too worldly", finding a seat when tape is placed on the chairs, struggling with "giving your testimony", Saturday night meetings when you feel like you should "stand up and make your choice" when a certain hymn has been sung, | ||
| Anonymous |
In the early days, workers would put up a tent on a farm owned by "one of the friends". But today, workers will orchestrate the purchase of a convention farm if needed! The head worker and another important worker in a state/province will accompany the future convention owner to an auction or visit with a real estate agent. Land is often purchased for the sole purpose of building a new convention. The friends are kept in the dark about the purchase of the land unless they read about it in a newspaper! Unprofessing help is often obtained for bulldozing and building construction. Professing people are very willing to donate labour, supplies and other stuff free of charge. Workers from neighboring areas lend a hand with the construction of the grounds. Many new conventions are purchased in order to build a new convention site. Millions of dollars may go into the purchase of a location to hold a series of meetings for only FOUR DAYS!! Sunday morning meetings have to be in homes EXCEPT for special meetings in rented buildings and CONVENTIONS in sheds built solely for convention use! I don't know when the workers will realize that they are also building a CHURCH building! Hello! | ||
| Anonymous |
http://www.lifelineoutreach.com/shieldofchrist/ Chad Moore has a website detailing the history of the "Truth" in Texas. He mentions various owners of the Happy Texas convention grounds and his own "spiritual genealogy". | ||
| Anonymous |
Early Texas Conventions: 1921-1922 The First Conventions were held at: Antelope Flats, Texas. 1923 The Third Convention was held at: Bill Bryans- Happy, Texas. 1924-1928 Conventions held at: Fletcher Gillihams- Happy, Texas. 1929-1930 Conventions held at: Bill Bryans- Happy, Texas. 1931-1932 until present Conventions held at: J.W. Byrds- Happy, Texas. The Moore Family Tree-(4 generations professing) # 1 Ed & Anna Moore (my great-grandparents)Jan.1921 # 2 Lawrence & Roberta Moore (my grandparents)1951 # 3 Ronnie & Judy Moore (my parents) 1963-1964 # 4 Chad & Halen Moore (my family) 1985-1986 & 1992 Early Conventions In Scotland, Ireland, England, Canada & U.S.A. 1886-1897 Glasgow, Scotland- 1st Workers Missions 1899-1901 Glasgow, Scotland & Rathamoloyn, Ireland 1901-1903 1st Workers came U.S.A. -N.Y.C. & Penn. 1904-1907 1st Irish Convention- Crocknacrieve, Ireland 1913-1918 Crocknacrieve Conventions in Ireland 1921-1922 Staffordshire, England Convention 1906 1st Convention -Toronto, Canada 1909 1st Convention - Vancouver, Canada 1907 1st Conv. in U.S.A. - Chicago, ILL. 1907 1st Convention - Paso Robles, California 1907 1st Convention - Petersburg, Nebraska 1909 1st Convention - Canby, Oregon 1910 1st Convention - Pendelton, Indiana 1911 1st Convention - Lancaster, Kentucky 1911 1st Convention - Milltown, Washington 1912 1st Convention - Rogersville, Michigan 1912 1st Convention - Jameson, Missouri 1914 1st Convention - Moscow, Idaho 1921 1st Convention - Demorest, Georgia 1921-1922 1st Convention - Antelope Flat, Texas 1924 1st Convention - Winston-Salem, N.C. 1924-1928 Fletcher Gillihams- Happy, TX. 1929-1930 Bill Bryans- Happy, TX. 1931-Present : Texas Conv. at J.W. Byrds- Happy, TX. 1933 Convention in Louisiana 1942 Convention at Baltimore, Maryland 1949 1st Convention - Edgewood, N.M. | ||
| Anonymous |
Going to convention is a spiritual treat for the friends. Being isolated from unprofessing people (anyone who doesn't go to meetings), they meet with the same handful of people week after week in their "little Sunday morning and Wednesday night meetings". I think convention is a time when professing people don't have to explain why their women dress old fashioned, why their church doesn't have a name and why they don't watch television. Being with a large number of like minded people is fun. It is nice to see your brothers and sisters in "the truth" because you share a common faith in the meetings in the home and the homeless ministry. Convention is fun. A place to date. Sleeping in dorms, motels or campers can be fun. Being away from school and work for 4 days. Hearing sermons from the platform and feeling touched by the Holy Spirit. Yes professing people enjoy convention. At least those who aren't quetioning the things they hear from the platform! | ||
| Anonymous |
Professing children who are considered "kingdom minded" would wait on tables in the convention cookhouse! It is special treat for the young people to serve the workers/servants of God!! Not all professing young people would be considered worthy to wait on the worker's table! You see the workers sit at a different table than the "friends". The workers have a higher status than the "friends" in the "truth fellowship"! Workers love to tell this story during conventions about the "worldly newspaper reporter" who asked the little boy what he was paid to work in the kitchen and he replied "I am just thankful to have a job." Professing children who wait on the worker's table are considered "kingdom minded." Young people who head to the shed and socialize are seen as "weak or borderline saints" who need guidance from the workers. | ||
| Anonymous |
I felt like I HAD TO GIVE MY testimony at convention in order to please God. (I was actually trying to please my professing parents and the workers). I remember dreading testimony time at convention! My heart would start pounding as soon as we finished singing the hymn prior to testimony time. As a child, workers would give a section the opportunity to give their testimony by pointing to those who were standing up! This was the day before cordless microphones. Sometimes I felt moved to give my testimony and other times I would lose the courage to give my testimony feeling guilty about letting God down! I would be so nervous and my voice would tremble when I gave my testimony. And you never knew when a worker might say "no more stand" at the same time you would begin to give your testimony. And you wondered if the worker was pointing to YOU or the person sitting next to you. On Sunday PM meeting (now during the AM meeting), workers would give time for anyone who hasn't "given their testimony at this convention". My heart would pound. I even remember moving places during convention so I could justify the fact that my row didn't get the opportunity to give their testimony. Roy Lacy would really stress the importance of giving your testimony when he was main speaker of a meeting!! I felt like I HAD to give my testimony. And certain workers would reinforce the importance of "making vows". I hated speaking before large crowds but giving your testimony was a way of showing others in other parts of the state that you were "still professing". I remember speaking through the cordless microphones. Easier because you didn't have to raise your voice! And you knew exactly when it was your time to speak. Felt weird to hear your voice bouncing off of the walls though. I wished professing people didn't feel like they HAD to do some of these things. | ||
| Anonymous |
A new convention grounds has been planned for Descanso CA. Even before Santee CA convention owner Chuck Grant passed away, plans were made for a RV park and grounds! There will be a RV park operated for all but the one month during convention season. | ||
| Anonymous |
With the death of Chuck Grant, the Santee CA convention grounds is in the news. But before he passed away, plans were made to move the convention to a new site that will really be a RV park except during the month of convention!! Read on: Cherie Guest Re: Convention change in Southern California! « Reply #3 on: Feb 1st, 2004, 8:57pm » Not Descano, but rather Descanso, CA. The original conv. plans were drawn up in 1995, and can be viewed at: http://home.wwdb.org/resource/resume/Descanso.html " target="_blank"> http://home.wwdb.org/resource/resume/Descanso.html It is not known if deviations from this plan were subsequently made. The grounds were originally planned to be a working RV park which would be closed down for one month for convention. Directions: From El Cajon, take Hwy 8 going East to Descanso; take Descanso exit on Hwy 79. Just past the City of Descanso on the South side is the conv site. You should be able to recognize it from the renderings on the website above. It is a beautiful site that was a cattle ranch for probably over 100 years. Has a small natural stream running through it and 100's of oaks. You will notice that at the entry, there is a General Store, shown as Building No. 2. It was planned to be large enough to hold all the sister workers and be the women's dorm. The meeting "hall" which is Building No. 5 on the plans included a totally enclosed kitchen and full dining facility under one roof, along with the meeting hall. Building No. 3 was planned to be Chuck and Marian's own personal residence; the long wing to the north was planned to be just for visiting workers and older workers who used to stay in their home in Santee. Building No. 4, the most southerly building, was for the brother workers. BuIlding No. 6 was the mens' dorms. All the campsites would be used by the friends and their RVs who were staying on conv. grounds, as well as the many bathrooms, some of which included laundry facilities. How do I know all this? My husband, Chester Ehrig, was the architect who drew up the plans in 1995. Logged Logged Wanna Know Guest Re: New California convention-RV Park?? « Reply #1 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 6:58pm » http://home.wwdb.org/resource/resume/Descanso.html Will the campers at this RV park feel any of the "spirit of convention while at the grounds? Will Marian get any help in the operations of this RV Park-Convention grounds?? Logged Jim Guest Re: New California convention-RV Park?? « Reply #2 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 7:51pm » Will the RV park be open to the public when no preps or convention and then closed to the public until after convention? Will the General store be open to the public when no preps or convention and then closed until after convention? Where will all the merchantdise be stored when in use for a dorm during convention? Logged wondering Guest Re: New California convention-RV Park?? « Reply #3 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 8:46pm » Has there been any newspaper articles in the Descanso CA paper about this upcoming project? Logged Cherie Guest Re: New California convention-RV Park?? « Reply #4 on: Feb 6th, 2004, 10:40pm » The 2nd floor of general store was an apartment for a caretaker, so yes, Marian would have help. There were storage provisions made for store merchandise during conv--both freezer and dry store items. Store would be closed to public. The City of Descanco fought against allowing the RV park concept for quite some time, so they ARE aware of the project. It probably made it to the newspapers...They ahve been trying to get the permit to build for about 10 years...it was a long, arduous and extraordinarily expensive process. There were no legitimate complaints brought against the project. Logged jd Guest Re: New California convention-RV Park?? « Reply #5 on: Feb 7th, 2004, 09:46am » Why not rent some camp or public building like they do in other countries? What is the big deal about the grounds being held at "one of the friend's" farms? I think special meetings are just as profitable as conventions? How traditional this church is in North America. | ||
| Anonymous |
1995 plans for the Descanso CA convention grounds replacing Santee CA convention grounds: http://home.wwdb.org/resource/resume/Descanso.html | ||
| Anonymous |
Once upon a time, conventions were held in canvass tents and people slept in the top loft of a barn. Today, the workers build fancy meeting sheds and dorms. It doesn't matter. But why should the workers/friends bash worldly religions for doing the same thing-building a public building solely for the purpose of worship?? And use them for only 4 or 8 days annually?? | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
Where in the bible do we read about conventions? Not that they are wrong. But professing people feel like they HAVE to attend their "home convention". Workers place so much importance upon convention! | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
Convention sheds and cookhouses are public buildings. Even if some workers think otherwise! | ||
| vicki (63.170.58.123) |
Im from Oregon and I remember those conventions in Boring and Saganaw Oregon. I came from a home where my Mother was B&R in the church and my Dad was a non-believer but he made me go all my life to the meetings and four day convention..lucky we had a camper or I would have had to stay in those dank doorms. I hated convention!!!!!!! One year I got the stomach flu and that really made me hate convention!!! Its like the Victorian days never ended. | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
Professing friends think convention is as close to heaven as you can get! SO much about the spirit of convention. Those testimonies praising "God's way". Some professing people believe they need some time away from the wicked world and time with God's people and servants. WOrkers hammed cliches, stories, experiences and their interpretations of the bible during those 4 days. Without conventions, the fellowhship wouldn't exist. Friends often speak about how much they need convention. The professing friends feel like misfits in society so they feel comfortable being around other friends who understand them. And you better give your testimony in your home convention so you can renew your vows. | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
There is something restful and relaxing about the quiet atmosphere of the convention grounds. But the preaching from the platform about the "right" way can be tiring. So much praise of the way and ministry. Less praise given to God! | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
Friends in my little meeting would talk about being needy and in "need" of the convention for about a month before the convention started. Workers had closed their gospel meetings. Friends felt bored since they had no other social life apart from the meetings! Friends in these tiny meetings feel a need for convention. They feel so weak and needy. Convention is a spiritual high for them. They quote what they heard in convention for weeks after conventions are over. | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
Spend a few weeks with the workers during preps and you will see a "human" side to them I once thought didn't exist! Preps helped me to see that the workers aren't right all the time! I have heard some sharp disagreements among companions during preps. Cookhouse stress can cause workers to talk sharp toward a friend or worker. Good to see their human side. I once thought they were above human errors. |
