| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Many are somewhat aware of the ruthlessness of some of the workers in Western Canada in the provinces of Alberta, British Columbia and Saskatchewan. Dale Shultz the head worker of SK kicked a sister worker out of the work in a clandestine worker meeting attended by Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck, and Mary Roper. DOzens of friends were kicked out of the truth in Alberta in 1999 under direction of Jim Knipe, Gwen Fipke, Thelma Galbraith, Willis Propp, Richard Knight, Scott McChesnesy and company. Several meeting changes and forced shunnings occured. A Mrs. Cameron in British Columbia was kicked out of the truth by Paul Chiu with approval from Paul Sharp and Walter Burkinshaw. In Western Canada, to speak out against the workers or servants will cause you to be smeared and kicked out of the fellowship. | ||
| Anonymous |
http://truth.jesussave.us/excoms/alberta.htm Read about worker power abuse in the province of Alberta. Also some professing people have been kicked out of the meetings in other provinces and states. British Columbia under Paul Sharp, Paul Chiu and Walter Burkinshaw has experienced some shunning and ex-communications. All under the disguise of "keeping the standard high" for the good of the "kingdom". Willis Propp, Dale Shultz and Paul Sharp/Walter Burkinshaw have been head workers of these provinces and allowed or instigated some of this madness. I think Merlin Affleck may be the new head worker of AB. | ||
| Anonymous |
Tapes of a worker trying to force some elders of some Western Canadian meetings to shun certain members. As a result of standing up to worker Jim Knipe many in Alberta lost a meeting in their home and the right to take part in a meeting somewhere else! See the following link: http://www.anotherstep.net/realfiles/ Worker-Jim Knipe and sister worker Gwen Fipke Friends in tape #2-Don and Marlene Jordan Friend in tape #6-Fred Alder 8 meetings in the homes moved and 12 elected to give up meetings in the home due to the actions of workers like Jim Knipe, Willis Propp, Thelma Galbraith, Kevin Cowan, Richard Knight, Charlene Beck, and others. This occured in 1999. Today these ex-communicated friends attend meeting in the homes that the workers don't approve of! | ||
| HA HA |
Would you look at all the Anonymous post here. Are you people chicken or what??? scared maybe ha ha. | ||
| Anonymous |
A child custody case among "the friends" in Alberta along with the incorporation of the truth under the dictates of Willis Propp has really pissed the friends and ex-friends off in Alberta. | ||
| So |
Tuff life aye, get over it, move on,give it up. | ||
| Anonymous |
Several friends in Alberta have been kicked out of the truth. Several elders have continued to have meetings in their homes while no longer recognizing the authority of the workers! The Jordans, Galloways, Alders and others have stood up to WIllis Propp, Richard Knight, Scott McChesney, Jim Knipe, Gwen Fipke, Kevin Cowan and others. If more people in the "truth" would stand up to abuse then the workers would be forced to change their abusive ways. It takes courage to stand up to the workers. They are seen as infallible "servants of God". Friends profess through them. As children, the workers were held up as being a "step closer to God" than the friends. As professing people, we coveted the approval of the workers. They decided how we believed, who we had fellowship with and how we dressed!! But 106 years of supreme worker control has created corruption and abuse. To the point that the friend are going to have to stand up and be heard. | ||
| Anonymous |
One that was given to me recently and that is handy has names, addresses, phone and fax numbers. It is titled CHRISTIAN CONVENTIONS 2003. Some of what it contains is as follows: Western Ontario - Emo, Marvin Mose Manitoba - Bowsman, Jerry Stinson Portage, Howard Roehle Saskatchewan - Theodore, George Cobb Smeaton, Alex Howden Aylesbury, Warren Pihrag Alberta - Greenshields, Ralph Patterson Hythe, Norman Wilson Mellowdale, Norman Lindquist Didsbury, Robert Stewart British Columbia - Prince George, Conrad Keddie Salmon Arm, Kelvin Willness Duncan, Lavern Dempster Glen Valley, Lyle Fair *** This is a list of convention owners in Western Canada for anyone interested in "the truth" in Western CA. The relationship between the ministry and the friends (several have either left or been put out) remains strained in this region. | ||
| Anonymous |
I imagine that the owner of the Emo ON convention grounds is kin to Alton Mose-head worker of Manitoba. Names like Mose, Affleck, Atcheson, Drummond, and others are common in this area. | ||
| Anonymous |
Willis Propp kicked a couple out of the truth in the early 1990s because they hadn't attended meetings very faithfully. Willis has been replaced by Merlin Affleck a worker who served under Dale Shultz-head worker of Saskatchewan. | ||
| Anonymous |
An elder in Alberta was arrested for downloading child porn! And Don Shenton (worker in Alberta) was staying all night at his home when he was handcuffed and sent to the police station! Yet the porn elder's brother was kicked out of the fellowship for questioning the workers over the issue of allowing someone the workers had ex-communicated into their home!! The madness of Alberta (and to a lesser extent in British Columbia and Saskatchewan) should be investigated by authorities. A professing woman was removed from fellowship by Paul Chiu in British Columbia likely with approval from Paul Sharp. Walter Burkenshaw is now head worker of BC. | ||
| Anonymous |
http://www.friendsoftruth.net/summary.mar.01.htm Discusses some events in Western Canada and Scandanavia in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Letters from Dale Shultz, Willis Propp, Walter Burkenshaw, Paul Sharp and other senior workers available! | ||
| Anonymous |
Click the word "index" at the bottom of the link to find all of the letters/E Mails concerning the situation in Western Canada: http://www.friendsoftruth.net/summary.mar.01.htm | ||
| Anonymous |
http://www.friendsoftruth.net/summary.htm | ||
| Anonymous |
Older workers like jim Wright and Stanley Sharpe must be turning over in their graves! Porn elder, homosexuality, ex-communications, child custody case, the Magowan issue, the Cameron issue, incorporation of the truth, and support for an ugly child custody case in Norway/Sweden. Unanswered questions. The workers need to come clean about these issues so they will be resolved. | ||
| Anonymous |
You know I think the workers in Alberta, Saskatchewan and British Columbia could apologize and end the whole affair overnight! Admit the wrongs commited and apologize. Instead they want to appear like infallible servants of God. | ||
| Anonymous |
At a convention once, Dale Shultz, head worker of Saskatchewan said "to the religious world, this is just another gathering". Dale has given girls "worker talks for trimming their hair". Dale also spoke against the friends visiting on Saturday nights and spoke about how they should get ready for the Sunday morning meeting-Preparing spices in John 21. | ||
| Anonymous |
100 years of elevation in the "place of the true ministry" in this region has led to power abuse. You cannot give human beings that kind of power/place/responsibility and expect them to handle it! That is why God didn't want the children of Israel from having a king. Same old thing today. Head workers in Western Canada are demaning support and place. They aren't servants. They are rulers. | ||
| Anonymous |
Willis Propp-Edmonton Courtroom 1999 concerning a child custody case. Excerps below:----------------------------------------------------------------- Mr.Willis Propp, Alberta Overseer, was a witness under oath in an Edmonton court on February 8, 1999. Here are some of the questions asked of Mr. Propp and his answers taken from the court transcripts: * Page 29-30 Q Do you, sir, file income tax forms in Canada? A Pardon me? Q I’m sorry. Do you file income returns in Canada? A We have just started this year to do it. It hasn’t been necessary before that. I filed a letter with the -- I filed a letter with the Income Tax Department in 1949, that from a certain date in 1948 I began in this full time evangelistic ministry, and I’m only supported by the unsolicited free will offerings, and I have never heard from them since, but now they have required our ministers to file income tax returns for the sake of Alberta Health. It was a policy. * Page 30 Q What happens when you receive monies that are more than are necessary for you? You said -- you told us they are used. Where are they put, those monies? A The money is entrusted to me in the first place, and then I entrust that to faithful elders among us, the local church elders, and they keep it for me, and it’s used at my discretion. * Page 86 Q You have the sole discretion as to how to spend that money, and there is no accountability except to God? A As far as I’m concerned. But any interest that is accrued on that money is looked after by the elders that have it. It’s held in trust, and it’s not in anyone’s name but their own, and so they pay the income tax on the interest that is accrued. * Page 97 Q Your group never meets in formal church buildings; does it? A On occasion. Q Are you referring to the convention grounds? A No. No. But sometimes we have the use of church buildings for preaching the gospel. * Page 106-109 Q Now, you talked previously when Mr. Schwartz was asking you questions about the hierarchy of the group. Now, if a Worker and a Friend don’t agree on an issue, where can the Friend appeal that decision by a Worker to? A Would you mind repeating that, again, please? Q Okay. There is a disagreement between a Worker and a Friend. The Worker makes his decision on an issue and the Friend doesn’t like it? A The Friend -- Q Let’s say that the Worker says to the Friend that I don’t want you to attend Meeting any more. Now, where would the Worker -- or where would the Friend appeal that decision to? A I -- I haven’t any experience of asking a person to stay away from a Meeting. Q Okay. But I’m giving you a hypothetical issue, and the question isn’t whether or not you know of people who have been told to stay away from Meeting. The issue is if that decision was made, where would the Friend appeal that decision to. Would he come to you? A They could come to me. The reason that a person would be asked to stay away from a Meeting, I know of some instances when that has happened, but the reason for it is -- well -- well advised that it’s not proper, and they are only asked to stay away from a Meeting for a time, with a thought of returning. Q When did your group start? A In Alberta, it began in 1907. Q Before that? A I know it came from Ireland before that Q Okay. Isn’t it, in fact, the case that your group, your denomination was started by William Irvine in Ireland in 1897? A That’s an untrue statement, sir. Q Well when did start it, then? [Well when did it start then?] A No one could start the Lord’s way in the world. People can find the Lord’s way in the world, but no one can found it. It was settled in heaven before the world was. Q Okay, so you are saying no one can start it, they can only find it? A Yeah. Q Who found it? A Pardon? Q Who found it, then? A Well, I found it in 1940. Q Okay. Who was the first Worker? A I wouldn’t know that, sir. Q Well, the point I’m getting at, Mr. Propp, is people who’ve researched this group can take it all the way back to Ireland in 1897, and then it stops with William Irvine. A I see. Q Now, do you know of any Workers prior to Mr. Irvine? A I don’t know, no. Q Okay. And, in fact, Mr. Irvine was excommunicated from your group; wasn’t he? A All I know about that is from what others have told me, and he was once hearty in his fellowship, and for reasons that I am not sure about, he was asked to leave, and it was only after that that he suggested that he had founded the group. Q In fact, one of the early Workers, Edward Cooney, he was asked to leave, as well; wasn’t he? A Exactly. Q And the William Irvine, his followers today are commonly called Irvinites or the Message People, as I understand it? A And the ones that follow Cooney were called Cooneyites. * Page 114 Q You are aware of various web sites and chat groups on the Internet about your group? A I know about them, but I don’t break into them. Some of the other Workers do. * Page 115 Q Now, if a Friend has done something wrong, my understanding is that they might have Meeting pulled from their house or they might not be allowed to participate in Meeting; is that correct? A A meeting pulled from a house is if the Workers aren’t welcome in the house. * Page 130 Q Now, you have already indicated that sermons are not tape recorded, but are notes kept of the Meetings and the sermons? A Not all notes -- or not all messages are. Q Are you aware of any instances where the Workers have directed that notes not be taken? A Yes, I believe they would rather not because often people don’t get it accurately, and when they do, we ask them to send their copy to us so we can edit it so that a misinterpretation is not given. Q So you are indicating that the Workers have sometimes directed people not to take notes at Meeting and Convention because they might not get it right? A Well, not to distribute them. They can have them for themselves, but not to distribute them. * Page 135-136 Q But in your group, can an individual achieve salvation without the assistance of a Worker? A I believe they would be brought in touch with the ministry in time. Q So that’s a no? A Yes, it’s not -- they don’t have to hear a Worker. They can hear one of our Friends who would eventually bring them in touch with the ministry. The ministry is a foundation of the church. It’s built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Jesus Christ, himself, being the chief cornerstone. Q But what I’m talking about, sir, isn’t it a belief of your group that in order to achieve salvation, they must achieve it by hearing the gospel from the Workers? A Well, it’s just a point of doctrine that we are not to talk about, sir Q Well, I am no talking about doctrine, sir. I am talking about characteristics of groups; is that one of your beliefs? [Well, I am not ...] A It’s part of the doctrine of the church that how can people hear without a preacher and how can they preach except -- that’s part of the biblical doctrine. I’m sure other churches would be reading that same verse. Q Now, would you agree that your group has various rules about conduct and what is expected of people? A We don’t have rules and regulations, and if they are interpreted as such, we are sorry. We encourage people, as we said. We are not directors of man’s conscience, we are just ministers of the word. * Page 137-138 Q Well, Mr. Propp, you already testified that you are a penniless preacher. Above and beyond what we’ve talked about today, you don’t have any other business interest; do you? A I certainly don’t. And I would like to just add that I am not a penniless preacher. That’s not a terminology among us because we all have money that is given to us. Free will. We are not penniless. Q I would assume that when the Workers go out into the field, do they always pay cash or do they use credit cards? A Some have credit cards and some pay cash. Q And I understand at various times, you had a credit card? A I did, sir. Q One with a rather high credit limit? A Yes, because we dealt with all the travel of our overseas Workers back in -- and it was very convenient for that. Q I believe the credit limit on your card was $20,000? A It was in excess of 20,000 at one time. | ||
| Anonymous |
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:20:13 -0700 Dale, I cannot begin to express to you the sorrow and heartbreak that I have experienced since becoming aware of the cruel and un-Christ like manner in which you, Willis Propp, Paul Sharp, Paul Chiu, and many other workers arrogantly conduct yourselves. I am aware of countless cases of excommunication, shunning, ungodly "business" decisions, power abuse, and immoral behavior by workers --- both men and women --- who apparently are seeking power, job security, pleasure, and the esteem of men. Workers want to be called servants, but it is more appropriate to call yourselves "saints" because many of you expect to be adored and served by people who are laden with new regulations and rules as the workers deem fit............burdens which are grievous to be borne. Excommunications, unsanctioned meetings, shunning, etc. are NOT of Jesus and God. Day by day, there is a growing abyss between the Ministry of Christ and the ministry of the workers. Sadly, but obviously, the two are only remotely alike. Jesus refused to judge.....He said that was for His Father in Heaven to do........nor did He excommunicate and shun anyone. He didn't even shun Judas although He knew he was bound to betray Him. Harsh judgmental workers and other hard--liners have left no room for Jesus in the fellowship. I can barely bring myself to call it a fellowship anymore because it has become simply another church-system with diminishing consideration for what Jesus would think, do, or say. Unlike Jesus who continually invites, loves, comforts, encourages, and shepherds His flock, you and many other workers are intent on and seem to take delight in judging, excommunicating, shunning, and causing fear, division, and heartbreak without compassion and care.2020 I was appalled to hear of Margaret Magowan's rude and crude removal from the work...sent on her way with an envelope!!! Do you call that severance pay? Because Margaret was not "hired" by God into the Ministry of Christ, you, as a mere mortal, cannot fire her from her God-given place. Merlin stated that Margaret's visits with exed people were out of line. "Out of line with whom?" I ask. Undoubtedly, Christ would be out of line with Merlin, Jim, and Mary Roper, and you because He would have done exactly what Margaret did. I venture to say that, while on your ego-trips, you'd have the audacity to expel Christ from the "ministry of the workers" for showing love, compassion, and consideration to those of us who have been abused, slandered, libeled, and tossed out. Margaret did nothing that Jesus wouldn't have done. I am confident that Jesus, like Margaret, would gladly have made those visits in the flesh........be right there in the midst of those of us who have been deemed unworthy.............assuring us of His boundless love and encouraging us in HIS TRUTH and WAY. I am thankful that He loves and cares boundlessly....even for each of us who have been abused by the system. Clearly we are beyond the love of workers and hard-liners, but we will NEVER be beyond His love! He continuously sends each of us special help in our special time of need. He knows that you and other have booted us out of the church, but no one can boot us out of God's Kingdom. The "system" is surely falling apart quickly, but because TRUTH is like new and living wine, God will provide a new wine-skin. Systems of man do not and cannot last, but the things of God do. Truth will always stand and remain the same no matter how some people strive to twist it for their own gain. My faith and confidence in Him is stronger than ever before in my life. I will follow Christ and leave it to God to deal with those like you and your ungodly, unkind, unloving, and inconsiderate dictates. Yours truly, | ||
| Anonymous |
Manitoba head worker Alton Mose has remove a meeting from an elder who asked too many questions about the worker's doctrine. | ||
| Anonymous |
If you profess in western Canada and want to "keep your place in the kingdom" keep your mouth shut and praise the worker's sacrifices. Otherwise you will be kicked out of the meetings, shunned, smeared etc.. | ||
| Anonymous |
The "work" is a closed society. A secret ministry. Few of the friends have privy to decisions made in secret worker meetings held at loyal professing people's homes. Often professing people are kept in the dark about decisions made by the workers concerning meeting changes, relocations of meetings/conventions, and other actions. Workers may put their spin on the situation. Someone may be kicked out of the fellowship and their professing family might be told that the person quit attending meetings! Many professing people trust the workers so much that they believe them over close relatives who either quit going to meetings or are told to stop taking part by a worker in "places of responsibility". | ||
| Anonymous |
Workers in Western Canada are bitterly opposed to remarriage after a divorce. This is an unpardonable sin in this region! You remarry after you divorce and the workers won't allow you to take part in meetings (speak or pray in meeting) and partake of the bread and wine in the Sunday AM meeting in the home!! Workers judge people who remarry! It is almost as if you cannot be saved if you remarry. In some areas you can sit quietly in meeting w/o speaking or praying until you show evidence of a right spirit but not in this hardlined world. SK, AB and BC have hardlined divorce and remarriage policies based on an erroneous interpretation of the bible! They have to be so damn harsh about everything!! No mercy and compassion. They shoot the wounded and cause pain and hurt to many people! | ||
| Anonymous |
"Passing" I do not know how many people on here, knew Don Parsons, from Calgary. Don and his wife were one of the first excommunicated in the Alberta axings. Actually they had said, that Willis Propp was no longer welcome in their home, that turned into a " do it yourself " severance. Anyway Don passed away a couple of weeks ago with a heart attack. He was out in the garden digging carrots. Maurine looked out the window, and he was busy doing that, and, but just moments later she glanced out again and he was on the ground. He was gone by the time she got to him. My understandingis that there were no workers at the memorial service, held in High River. Family members had a part in the service as well as Dale Jordan. I got this information from their son Gregg. My condolences to all of the family. Love Marge Maggie Registered User (11/26/03 10:59 am) Reply Don Parsons passing I think if you'll check, the reason Don and Maureen were excommunciated was because they allowed another excommunicated couple to attend a meeting in their home. It may also be true that they would rather not have Willis in their home but that is not the reason they were told they were no longer part of the fellowship of the F&W. Double check with Dale and Marlene Jordan...or Willis...or Jim Knipe (if you can find him)...or with any of the Alberta "Workers". Don't expect an answer from the "Workers" though but it never hurts to ask. Next Topic >> Add Reply | ||
| Anonymous |
The "truth" has experienced turmoil in Alberta, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. But I think the power abuse from the ministry has caused some professing people to examine some of their long held beliefs concerning such as only wayism, legalism and spiritual snobbery. | ||
| Anonymous |
Often professing people may not be told the truth about why the workers kicked their close family members out of the truth. Workers might tell someone they cannot pray,speak or partake of the bread&wine and then tell the person's family that X chose not to attend meetings anymore. Yet some of the professing people on the inner circle of the fellowship REFUSE to believe the workers could make a wrong decision. Sad. So much mind control and power manipulation from the head workers in the area. | ||
| Anonymous |
Rob Schultz will be going into the work in Saskatchewan, Canada. Rob is in his early 20's and is a nephew of overseer Dale Schultz. He will be with Jim Atcheson in the Prince Albert field. *Jack Price is back in Saskatchewan. * Bernard Hall has left the work. | ||
| Anonymous |
Believe me, if you have words with some worker (especially a head worker), the blame will be placed upon YOU and not the worker. Professing people think the workers can't make a mistake! So much respect and almost worship for the position of worker/Servant of God!! | ||
| Anonymous |
The work is a closed ministry that doesn't allow people to know what goes on behind closed doors. Next month the workers in the Southern US will have a worker's meeting in Nashville TN. Will they let others know about their meeting? No. Younger workers are kept in the dark about these secretive meetings. The head workers run the show and conceal information from others. And they put their spin on various happenings such as ex-communications, worker staff changes, health of workers, meeting/convention changes and many things. The workers think other people aren't worthy of knowing what goes on in their secretive organization. | ||
| Anonymous |
Watch things could start to open up In the middle east...and remember Gods work Is slow but sure | ||
| Anonymous |
people need to eat a little more humble pie...humble people do not get offended I do not want to undermind whats already been said | ||
| Anonymous (216.36.137.206) |
after reading all this on the internet and seeing whats gonE on with willis propp etc and the margo macgowan incident prove to me that this is just another religion.there r power struggles,money issues and what is the truth??.. | ||
| Anonymous (157.89.46.110) |
There is a discussion about worker Jim Knipe on the Truth Meetings Board. There is much lingering hurt and bitternes due to the behavior of the workers in Alberta, British Columbia and Saskatchewan. Don't expect Dale Shultz, WIllis Propp, or others to come here and explain "their side". They are the "servants of God" and thus superior to us mortals. | ||
| ken_bc (ken_bc) New member Username: ken_bc Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 |
I was born and raised in this "faith" in western canada.and as a teenager saw things did not add up and i left it. some family members are still part of it, but the newer generationis not being part of it. my parents were elders and also other family were either elders one was the main home used for years for the "head worker in that province" even some members of family were "workers" and some still are even to this day. i like to know more about some of the elders and workers how they left or removed from their "special places in the truth" rumors of one worker lost his place in Saskatewan and was warned to change his ways was moved to Alberta when he got envolved with a married female and lost his post as a worker..another rumor of a higher up in a police dept in saskatchewan that was a well respected member of the "Truth" lost his job in police dept when he was involved with a prositute it was even covered in local papers. I would like to know futher information on theseand other topics..reason is not to gossip or judge these people..just like to see that after all the years of this group who sees they are not like other people and look down and judge others..should also see they are human too..and have flaws and people with human faults |
