| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
For a doctrine which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy task... -Albert Einstein | ||
| Anonymous |
Mormon Church Controls Salt Lake Block Mon Jul 28,10:42 PM ET By DOUG ALDEN, Associated Press Writer SALT LAKE CITY - The city and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints completed a land swap Monday that gives the church the right to regulate behavior in a park it bought from the city. In return for giving up unfettered access to the Main Street block, the city received two acres on which to build a community center. Federal courts had ruled that the city's sidewalk easement carried free speech rights the church could not curtail. "This is the best resolution and is going to bring about some great things for this community," Mayor Rocky Anderson said after Monday's signing. The agreement gives the church complete control over the block, which after its purchase from the city was transformed into a pedestrian mall spruced up with gardens, fountains and a reflecting pool. The popular downtown location has also drawn protesters critical of the church's conservative values. The church originally tried to impose rules for the plaza, including prohibitions on swearing, smoking, protesting and playing music. But critics, led by the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites), sued to overturn the original sale, arguing that the church's restrictions interfered with citizens' constitutional rights. Last October, a federal appeals court ruled the church could not restrict speech or other activities on the sidewalks running through its plaza. The Supreme Court declined last month to review that decision. Bishop David Burton said the church has no plans to curtail public access. "Unless there's something that really disrupts, is really negative toward the ownership of the plaza, we don't say much," Burton said. Burton said the new guidelines weren't set as of Monday, but said most visitors have shown respect. Those who don't are welcome to protest on city property next to the plaza, he said. http://tinyurl.com/iixa | ||
| Anonymous (63.230.18.103) |
Im sorry what is your point ?? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) New member Username: solopilot Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
He doesn't have a point. He also has no historical perspective. The Church originally owned the land which became Main Street. It was donated, free of charge, to the city. We later paid MILLIONS of dollars to buy it back. It is private property. Thus, we have the right to prohibit such things as obscene protests during church meetings, the handing out of bigotry literature, hate speech and other disruptive activities. Whatever church the first poster attends, it is probably on land which was originally in the hands of the government of his town, state or country, then was bought for the use of the church. He has the same right to exclude disruptive persons from that land that we have to exclude disruptive persons from ours. However, his church probably did not own the land before the government did, so if either claim were weaker, it would be his, not ours. The only person who would complain about this is someone who wants to be disruptive. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Junior Member Username: overseas Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
The point is that Mormons are busy with making and spending a lot of money; and that they target to extend their influence using money, behind a 'religious' face. It is that Mormons do not rely on Holy Spirit and one's own convictions for changing people behaviour, but use secular means. They build their own earthly kingdom, the same with Jehova Witnesses. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Junior Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Actually, we are using the money to do what the Lord wants us to do with it. A large chunk of the money that you give your church goes into your preacher's pocket. Yet the Prophet, presiding over about 13,000,000 members worldwide, lives in an apartment about the size of a mobile home. If our money goes to make it safer and more convenient for members to attend Temple sessions, to visit the headquarters of our church, and to have a place of peace and beauty, then isn't that better than hiring someone to tell us what the Bible says? Come to Salt Lake City. I will be happy to show you around, from Temple Square to Humanitarian Square, from the Bishop's Storehouses to any chapel you like, and you will see where our money goes. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Junior Member Username: overseas Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
I see that you know what the Lord wants you to do with your money. I never knew the Lord wants us to focus on making and spending money in living our religion. That one is not my Lord. My money goes to the poor and old people, not to preachers, although honest preachers are to be supported by the church. For your info, preachers should be appointed by the community if they represent the common understanding of the community about the Bible. It is not the other way round. Pastors and preachers are not there to 'do the thinking' for us, but to represent us. Would you please check on this topic at your next Mormon meeting ? Just tell me how many times the Mormon Church applied the NT command to kill its prophets if they proved wrong once ? Did you study how this 'Prophet' office come up during the Mormon history and how many times the newly appointed 'Prophets' condemned the former "Prophets" ? Christians are not called to build religious organisations on earth and earn properties, cause their citizenship is in heaven ! But that is your story, you are comfortable with your great empire and buildings and you forget God's prophets in Bible were poor and persecuted. You may be a prophet when you call me there. I am just a saved man that know my Jesus saviour, but if it will be God will I may travel there and speak God Word not only to you Mormons but also to any protestants or baptists that are christians only by name. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Junior Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 64.122.31.130 |
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." Mal 3:8 Try this: for the next three months, don't put anything into the offering plate when it is passed. Sit up front, and look right at your preacher as you hand it to the person next to you. One of two things will happen -- there will either be a sermon on tithes and offerings, or you will hear comments on everyone paying their share of the church's financial burden. A large part of that burden is paying the preachers. You say that NONE of your money goes to preachers? If you are in a congregation, then how is your preacher being paid? I'd be willing to bet that he is not following the "neither purse nor scrip" commandment (Luke 10:4). Read what you wrote. You said that preachers should be appointed is the represent the "common understanding of the community about the Bible." That means that you first have to decide what the Bible means, then you find someone willing to follow your ideas so that he can take your money. When you are getting on an airplane, do you want a pilot who follows your ideas of how to fly, or one who has proven his capability to the appropriate authority, even if this doesn't agree with your "common understanding"? Where in the NT is the command to kill ANYONE? | ||
| overseas (overseas) Member Username: overseas Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 82.76.248.249 |
There are corrupt preachers everywhere and Mormons are brainwashed if they imagine theirs are all sincere. I know, I know Solopilot you don't pay dierctly your preachers, but people can get money advantages from the relationships built in the Mormon church... So you Mormons go there and buy everything preachers sell you. Because we do not; I hold to the principle: pastors and preachers have to represent the belief of the community and not the other way round. And the church memebers have the duty to study for themselves and take personal responsibility for their beliefs, not relying on the authority of the preachers. Authority comes from truth, not from pasto position. The plane ex. is good for flying, but does not work for faith. I will put and end to my presence on the thread, All, take care. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Overseas, please tell me what "money advantage" Gordon B. Hinckley got from giving up his own home to move into a small apartment, work long hours and wear himself out travelling to make all of the appearances and visits necessary in the position of President of the Church, for which he isn't paid a penny . . ? What are you talking about, Mormons "buy everything preachers sell you"? If your faith in Christ is so weak that you feel that his teachings and doctrines can't stand up to "the community," then you need to fast and pray about this issue. If your pastor tells you this, then your pastor is OF THE WORLD, rather than of the Lord. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 145 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.16 |
From a mormon Your comments about Mormonism are Nonsense "Mormonism is not Christian because it denies soe of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including the deity of Christ, salvation by grace, and the bodily resurrection of Shrist. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching that there is only one God, and it undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible" 1. We never have denied the deity of Christ. Christ is Jehovah, the great I am. This is within our doctrine. Answer: When orthodox (sound in opinion and doctrine, sound in religious doctrines, in accordance with sound doctrine) Christians say "deity of Christ," we mean that He is one with the Father. There is one God of the Bible, although He exists as three persons, and Jesus is--and has always been--as fully God as the father. As I understand it, Mormon doctrine is that Jesus was a created being, which would put Him on a defferent--inferior--level to the eternally-existing Father. So the Father existed before Jesus did, which would make Him (Jesus) less than the eternally-existing Creator of the Universe. Which the Bible proclaims that He is. "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8) "In Him (Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9). of Jesus it was announced: "These are the words of Him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again" (Rev.2:8; the same claim made by God Almighty. "This is what the LORD says==Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God" (Is.44:6). Also, compare Rev. 22:13 with Is.48:12. Also as I understand it, Mormon doctrine is that Jesus is Jehovah, and the Father if Elohim, andd they are different Gods. But in the Old Testament, these are two names for the same, one, God. James Talmage, one of the mormon authorities,states: "This (the trinity) cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Goost are one in substance and person" (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40). James Talmage states: "Jesus Christ was Jehovah...Jesus Christ, who is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. In all of scripture, where god is mentioned and where he has appeared, it was Jehovah. The Father has never dealt with man directly and personally since the fall" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1,p.11,27). Joseph F. Smith stated, "Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors" (Gospel Doctrine, p.70). In contrast, the Bible uses the names Elohim and Jehovah interchangeably for the one true God. The English form "Jehovah" was developed from four consonants (JHWH) from which we get the word "Yahweh," translated "LORD". The words "Yahweh" and "Elohim" are used together hundreds of times, as in: 'LORD our God', 'LORD my God', 'LORD his God', 'LORD your God'. For example; "The Lord (Jehovah) our God (Elohim) is one Lord (Jehovah)" (Seut. 6:4). See also Gen. 2:4-22, Deut. 4:1; Judges 5:3; 1 Sam 1:30; Is. 44:6. 2. We are saved by grace. No doubt about it. It's part of our doctrine. The Bible's definition of grace is undeserved, unearned favor. It's a gift from God with no strings attached and no way to earn it. Apparently the Mormon definition of grace is very different, including man's effort: Probe answers our email: mormonism 2 | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 405 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: ". . .that whosoever believeth in him . . ." Looks like "strings attached" and a "way to earn it" are in the Bible that you claim is perfect and complete doctrine . . . | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 148 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.150 |
Nope. No strings and we all know mormons borrowed verses from the Holy Bible, to make their book look more legitimate. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 149 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.150 |
For all the corporations owned by the lds church, there are sure a lot of hungry kids in the midwest. Ever watch the news? (Oh, that's right. TV is a protestant stronghold, with all those evil people.) I think they would love to know what Mormons really think of them, but I don't think they'd care too much. There was sure a lot of tv watching when Steve Young played football for San Fran! Oh, and remember Donnie and Marie. Mormon favorites. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 411 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: No strings? Do you have to believe or not, to "not perish, but have everlasting life"? Which corporations are those? Most corporations in the US are owned and operated by "mainstream" Christians. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 330 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.154.237.39 |
That is the meaning of we are saved by our faith alone, not by our deeds. Our deeds will never be good enough to God who is perfect. It is grace that we are saved by faith alone. That is Christianity 101. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 414 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: Isn't believing in Christ a "deed"? However, I agree, we are saved solely by the Atonement of the Savior. He just expects each of us to do our best, and won't accept anything less. He makes up the difference between what we can do and the requirements of the law. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 155 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.150 |
Franklin, There is something I would like to share with you. Please go to The proof is in the pudding. I have been talking with our Lord. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 333 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Faith is not a deed. Faith is belief. Faith is attitude, hope and love. If a man loves his wife is that a deed? If a man loves his child is that a deed? If a man looks up into the sky and sees dark rain clouds over his head. Hears thunder. Sees the signs. Believes its going to rain. Is that belief a deed? No. Faith is not a deed. Mankind is saved by it's faith in Christ. Not by deeds. Yes, Christ accepts less than our best. Otherwise there would be no hope for mankind. All mankind would be lost. Christ expects a Christian to "try" to do our best. He gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us in that. There's a difference. Because of God's love for us, giving those who believe in His Son eternal life, a Christian does good out of love for God. Not in hopes of a reward of salvation. satan has perverted the word of God in those who believe that their salvation is based on their doing good deeds. That is works based salvation. That is Judaism. Not Christianity. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 420 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: Can you believe in Christ without learning about him? Without studying? Studying is certainly a "deed," but without it, your claims that you believe mean nothing, because you have no idea what you believe IN. Can you believe in Christ without doing what Christ would have you do? Does your cult practice baptism? If so, isn't that a "work"? Where in the NT does Christ say that it isn't necessary to do good deeds? Isn't his response to the wealthy young man indicating that more is needed than just belief? We are not saved by our works. We're not even saved by our faith. We're saved by the Atonment of Jesus Christ. But if we are true Christians, we DO THINGS. We worship, we proselyte (both you and I are doing this here), we give to charity or just help someone in a small way now and then. For all the fun I have "poking a stick into your cage," I know that you really are Christian, after a fashion. You follow your vision of what and who Christ was and is. You do things every day to show that you follow him, even if that is not the reason that you do those things. NOT doing them is inconceivable because you're a follower of Christ. Or, in other words, "faith without works is dead." The amusing thing is the way that you point to my works as "proof" that I'm "working for my salvation," while ignoring the fact that you do the same kind of works. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 161 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.40 |
Book of Mormon Pg. 99-100. For we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do. Mormons teach that we are saved by grace, but salvation is not free "Salvation is not free for God, for whom it cost him everything. It is free for us, Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 64:6. All our righteousness is as filthy as rags." One small sin negates all the works, according to Christ's teachings in the Holy Bible." Trying to earn salvation, (being saved), with our paltry efforts is a slap in the face for GOD. He wants us to come with empty hands with realization that we cannot earn our salvation; we don't deserve it, and the gift of Eternal Life, comes only through trusting (having FAITH) in him" Exaltation by mormon doctrine is NOT taught in the Holy Bible. Franklin beware. Sp is trying to use flattery. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 426 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
GC: You think I'm trying to FLATTER Franklin? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH No, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, just as I gave you a few times. But I can certainly understand why you would want to be saved without any consideration of what you have done in this life. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Which came first: the chicken or the egg? satan tries to confuse man as to the purpose of Christ's coming. Man has argued the faith vs. works issue for 2,000 years. Just as we are forbidden to add or subtract from the Bible, we are forbidden to add or subtract from John 3:16. John 3:16 does not read "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and whosoever believes in him" AND DOES GOOD DEEDS, IS BAPTIZED IN THE TEMPLE, WEARS SPECIAL UNDERGARMENTS ETC. ETC. ETC. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, "shall not perish but shall have everlasting life." Faith without works is dead. Yes. But a sincere heart who accepts Christ on his deathbed is saved without works. Fruit is belief. Belief is fruit. Only God knows our hearts. But a sincere, God loving heart shows fruit. Not that man would notice it, but God does. Can a man know of Christ isolated alone on an island without a preacher or a Bible? Yes, because of the Holy Spirit. Can a man be saved without ever reading, hearing or knowing one word of the Bible, never been baptized, christened, prayed the rosary etc? Yes, if the Holy Spirit enters his heart. The God of the entire universe is alive and is where there is no man. And is there where there is only one man who doesn't know Him. The Spirit of God is superior to the physical world He has created. God has no limitations. There is only one God that created the universe. And Jesus Christ is His one and only Son. Accept this, surrender and be freed. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 428 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin wrote: "Just as we are forbidden to add or subtract from the Bible, we are forbidden to add or subtract from John 3:16." Unfortunately, we were not forbidden to add ot subtract from the Bible. The Bible didn't exist until 300 years after the Book of Revelation was written, Revelation having the prohibition against adding to "THIS book." (emphasis mine) Where in the Bible (which you say holds ALL doctrine) does it say that deathbed repentance makes up for a lifetime of sin? What about a Mafia hit man? He's spent his life as a Catholic, going to confession (yes, they do). Is he saved? How about if he hasn't believed, but after he's been shot and he's bleeding out, your preacher comes to him and he suddenly "repents" and "accepts Jesus as his personal Savior." Is he saved now? Now, Franklin, stop adding doctrines to the Bible, then claiming that it was perfect before you got to it. Nowhere does the Bible say that you can believe in Christ without ever knowing of him? And if this is possible, then why do you need a Bible in the first place, or preachers? Make up your mind. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 355 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
You feel the wind, hear the wind yet you do not see it. Is it there? John 3:16. "believes in him"... no other requirements. The last shall be first. The first shall be last. In the beginning, there was God, Adam and Eve. No preacher. No Bible. How did Adam and Eve know God? Through God's spirit. God spoke to them as He speaks to me through the Holy Spirit. Aren't you born again? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Intermediate Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 438 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: This is straight from Christ: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." John 14:21 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." John 14:24 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 15:10 When Jesus gives us commandments, how can you say that there are "no other requirement" than to simply believe? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 165 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.6 |
When I speak of the 'old man', I speak of my old nature. When I speak of temple recommends, I speak of them as frivilous. Therefore, anyone can give you a recommend, or not. It's a 'man thing', not a God thing. Franklin, Have you heard of Andrew Wommack? He has a marvelous worldwide ministry, a godly man who does not charge, as in MONEY, which seems to be a BIG thing for some. He is a diciple, and NOT a prophet, which is what CHRISTIANS aspire to be. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 186 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.226 |
sp On Jan. 15 you said people here should research...If they disagree with me after doing this, (if they do their own research) we are all still way ahead. Let's talk about the Adam/God theory. I don't believe Adam was God. Brigham Young, second prophet of mormon church taught 'Adam is God'. He is Adam; Michael; the ancient of days'. From Brigham Y's papers From Church Historian's Office, Salt Lake City, Utah. He also said "What man or woman on the earth, what spirit in the world can say truthfully that I ever gave a wrong word of counsel, a word of advice that could not be sanctioned by the heavens." Journal of Discourses:Vol. 12 (Pg.127) Until 1978, mormons didn't admit blacks into their priesthood. Before 1978, missionaries weren't allowed to attempt to prosletyze to blacks. There was not place in the "Highest Heaven" for them. Jos.F.Smith said "There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is vorn white with great advantages. The reason is we had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there." Doctrine of Salvation, Vol.1 "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the priesthood." Quoted in "That Ye :May Not Be Decieved" Pg. 3 Brigham Young said "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the white man of the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will Always be so." Journal of Discourses Vol.10 More recently, Mark E.Peterson said, "We must not intermarry with the Negro. Why? If I were to marry a negro woman and have children by her my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of Negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they recieve the curse." THE PLATES Church History Vol.5 Pg. 372 Joseph Smith claimed that he had translated a portion of the plates. Quote: I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the Loins of Pharoah, king of Egypt, and that re recieved his kingdom from the Ruler of Heaven and Earth. MEN ON THE MOON Oliver B. Huntington said, "The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than those of the earth, being about 6 ft. in height. They dress very much like the Quaker style-----They live to be very old, coming generally, nearly a thousand years. This is a description of them by Joseph the Seer, and he could see whatever he asked the Father in the name of Jesus to see." Journal of Oliver B. Huntington Volume 3 pg. 166 Brigham Young added: Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this lettle planet----called the moon? When you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regards to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it. Journal of Discourses Vol.3 pg 271 I have a comment to add: I am not the only 'so called liar' concerning the mormon church. It's own leaders must have found the LSD, not I. Either that, or those old mormon prophets hit Brigham's liquor store once too often.  | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) New member Username: joesdad Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
gc: again what you are posting is sensationalist interpreatation of some facts, twisted to say what you want, when you know - if you do actaully speak to your lds family is a pack of blatant lies - shameful woman! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 209 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.97 |
My only person in my lds family who practice the beliefs of the mormons is my mother. I, having faith in God, have prayed that his hand be on her. He answers my prayers. I know numerous people who do not believe the mormn teachings, but won't get out of the 'so called church' bacause it would affect their marriages and jobs because their mates were believers in mormonism, or were born into it, or their employers were mormon, or they didn't want to hurt the feelings of their parents who are members.. Believe me, I talked to all of them about it and this was the reponse I got. My life is "God first". That is why Jesus said, "Who is my mother?". I will be with my eternal father. I pray my family will be too. God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform. Why is it wrong for me to speak against my family's beliefs, but not wrong for them to reject mine? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 210 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.97 |
Joesdad, I forgot to mention in your response again what you are posting is sensationalist interpretations of some FACTS. They are sensational in and of themselves without my 'interpretation'. When YOU accept that, you will not need to apologise for your beliefs. You might even have the 'blinders taken from your eyes'. I have no problem with you making disparaging comments about me personally. I have the 'whole armor of God'. Do you? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) New member Username: joesdad Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Yep | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 217 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.48 |
Joesdad, define the "whole armor of God". Anyone who studies (and believes) scripture can surely do that. Are you afraid to read, study and (believe) the Holy Bible? Is that why we see all the continuous denials that mormons believe in man, and not God of the Holy Bible? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 218 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.48 |
Joesdad, why are you afraid to give us the list of questions missionaries ask nonmormons when they are hoping to convert them? Why are you afraid to quote what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said and taught? I don't hear any of that from you. Have you read your "Church History" as found in your own church building? All of it? What is your description of God? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Junior Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Never been asked! Not afraid - just not found the need. Which one? (author) My Heavenly father | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 219 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.48 |
Joesdad, Why don't you go over each Quote I posted on Feb. 12 at 12:18 a.m. and tell us how these things that were said and taught are misquoted, or twisted by me or anyone else who has read them? What are you afraid of? Are we 'unworthy'. Don't you want to see us all in at least the lowest part of heaven? When you said your wife and children are active, happy members of lds church, you forgot to mention your parents, your brothers and sisters, your aunts, uncles, cousins. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 220 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.48 |
Joesdad, you say 'you have just not found the need. Answered like a true mormon who would rather accept what men have told you instead of searching for the truth yourself. If your beliefs are so true and wonderful, why won't you share them. I don't think I am the only person reading our posts. Perhaps they would like to be enlightened from a member's own mouth and mind. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 221 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.48 |
Joesdad, your description of God is "My heavenly father". What is your description of Jesus Christ, and Adam? Where did your 'heavenly father' come from? Where did Satan come from? Where did angels come from? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Junior Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: SEEMS LIKE YOU KNOW THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS - EVEN BEFORE I ANSWER THEM! "NOT FOUND THE NEED" MEANS THAT THEY ARE THE WORDS OF OTHER MEN, OFTEN THEIR OPINION EXPRESSED IN A DIFFERENT SOCIAL CLIMATE, AND VERY MUCH DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES - IT GETS BORING IF ALL THAT ONE CAN SAY IS REPEATING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS SAID - YOU NEVER QUOTE THE EARLY CHRISTAIN LEADERS WHO KNEW MCUH MORE ABOUT TRUE CHRISTAINITY THAN YOU EVER WILL - SO WHY NOT - SCARED OF WHAT YOU MIGHT FIND? NOT SURE WAHT HAPPENED BUT I REMEMBER POSTING THAT I WAS TH ONLY ACTIVE MEMEBR IN MY FAMILY, THEN CORRECTING THIS TO SAY THAT I WAS REFERRING TO EXTENDED FAMILY, AND THAT MY WIFE & KIDS ARE ALSO ALL ACTIVE - DUNNO WHERE THOSE POST WENT! JESUS CHRIST - SON OF GOD, CREATOR, SAVIOUR ADAM - OUR FIRST FATHER (YOU KNOW I MEAN FIRST MAN CREATED BY GOD IN THE FLESH - SO NO FUNNING INTERPRETAIONS!) | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 227 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.17 |
The second 'apostle' taught that Adam was God. That 'apostle/president of the LDS Church's name was Brigham Young. He did not just say Adam was the "first father", he said "Adam is God". Sorry if I have hurt or confused | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 232 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.162 |
Solopilot, apologist for mormon church, asked me "what corporations" does the mormon church own. I did a little surfing, typed in 'Deseret Book', which I knew was one, and got an interesting link to 'WALLA' the Mormon Stock Index. Anyone can type in 'mormon stock index' and find almost 50 corps. owned by the LDS Church, and another dozen or more not included because they do not have the $10 billion required to be considered. Deseret Book alone, (which you can also type in to peruse for info) by their own definition is diversified into four main imprints: Deseret Book, Bookcraft, Eagle Gate, and Shadow Mountain. Deseret Book Co, wholly owned subsidiary of Deseret Management Corp., the holding company for business of.....Latter Day Saints. So much for the claims of the mormon church being non-profit. This is sensational, but not sensational attempt to twist mormon values, doctrines, or ethics. It's all there in black and white. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 233 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.162 |
Now the question arises again:Why does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints hide the truth? I have heard bragging on these posts by mormons about all the good they do for the poor, the orphaned, etc. All of those things are tax deductible, including tithing. | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
This is the first time I have ever been to this site and I love it. I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants. Now I know why only a "small handful" are going to heaven......Mormons are taking over the world spreading blasphemy. Popping out kids left and right. There will only be a small handful of Christians left from many good true church denominations that go to heaven. I'll pray for your mormon souls. | ||
| peace_that_passes (peace_that_passes) New member Username: peace_that_passes Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.165.59.223 |
bfowler, any relation to Laurie or James? GBU | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 257 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.222 |
bfowler, I don't know how much you have read of the apologists remarks. Solopilot, who by the way, I am sorry to hear is sick, and hope he gets the elders over for laying on of hands for healing. Whatever happens is God's will. Trust in him. And Gemma, if the initials gf mean girlfriend, you sure talk different than the one who speaks like a Jamaciian, quoted by sp in 'mormon funny' thread. Did he fly you over to the 'mainland'? Joesdad, I was trained by some of the best mormon teachers. That is how I know you will answer. Which, after all is what attorneys do when questioning; never ask a question you don't know the answer to. Didn't they teach you that? Studying the Word is never boring to me. Why do you think God gave us his Word? Nonchristians do not want to hear personal testimony, which I and many others have given numerous times. Therefore, to offer nonbelievers the PROOF They always ask for, christians "quote" from scriptures. There is obviously no way to get into your prideful exterior to help you see what is right before your eyes. I am not on here only for you or sp, but for all those I hope will read these posts to be able to give readers "PROOF" of just how "UNKNOWING" of God's truth mormons are. The more you type, the deeper hole you dig yourself into. So, don't waste your time responding to me, but only to what I say, and I will offer you the same respect. Of course, the early leaders, (apostles, teachers, and diciples who wrote the Holy Bible know more than I ever will, Until I get to heaven. I will always have curiosity and interest and questions. That is not a sin. Blindly following a man would be my downfall, not only by mormon men. I say men to you, because women cannot have authority, according to the mormon teachings. When I mentioned the prophetesses in the Bible, sp did not respond to that but just kept calling me a liar. Calling someone a liar will not change truth. What I see in your posts is a person trying to combine his christian beliefs with mormon ones, and is finding he cannot. I am very sorry but trust God to lead you to truth if you 'ask for truth'. If I had doubts, I could go to God in prayer, whichever God I believed in, and say, "If you aren't the true God, stay away from me. I want to speak to the true God." Believe me, the true God will answer. There is no accusation there, but only a desire to know him, which is all he asks. Do you believe the verse in the kjv that says, "rebuke satan, and he will flee from you"? Do you believe the words of Christ in the kjv that says, "come unto me, all ye who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"? Do you believe the words spoken that Paul said to the jews and gentiles in the synagogue? And his response when they wanted to worship him and Barnabus? He said no, no, no. Don't worship us. We are just the messengers. Not Gods. We are HIS servants. | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
I don't even know if I will ever chat here again but let me just say this.....No matter how much concrete evidence there is that Joseph Smith was lying to everyone (his own friends said so). The big battle in New York ( absolutely no evidence of swords, breast plates, helmets and so forth). He read an ancient egyptian funeral scroll and said it was about Ham but it was not. And oh yes, the DNA evidence. You cannot change many mormon minds. They are brainwashed from the time they are born. I have a friend who told me that in their ward the parents are taught to whisper in their childrens ears right before bed, "this is the true church...and so on. People your not seeing the big picture. Our relationship with Christ is a personal one and there will be people from many different churches and some who don't even go to church but love Christ...that will go to heaven (only one!!). Yes mormons are a cult and they believe strangly about who Jesus Christ is and was. That is why they cannot be considered Christians and that is Why most Christian churches will not accept them as legitamate. Oh yes, How come you can't drink caffeine in pop and tea but you can eat caffeine in chocolate? | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
Hello Peace: No I am not related to Laurie or James? Why, who are they? bfowler | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
Oh, Oh, Oh I'm sorry I forgot to ask one more question thats been on my mind. You know the part where the men die and get their own planet and several wives. Do women get a planet with lots of big hunky men? b | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 260 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.160 |
No, sorry. No big hunky men for the women. Just the one she is sealed to in the temple (for eternity). Come to think of it, I've never seen a big, hunky mormon man. BUT, if the wife is the first one, she is the Goddess of that world and all the other wives are below her. Talk about a big dog pile of dodo! In mormonism men are always on top, if you know what I mean. Women are created to have men's babies....ask a mormon | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 261 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.160 |
Amazing to me: women in the lds, mormon church can't hold the priesthood, but women (ex: Gladys Knight, chairwoman of the board for one of mormons many corporations. Boy would ol Joe and Brigham roll over if they knew a black woman was running their money making enterprises. Another example is the (Woman) Pres. of Relief Society of lds has recently been named CEO to another mormon corp. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 262 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.160 |
And solopilot had the gall to say 'protestant pastors are priestcrafters'. Solopilot has also talked about his children but not for a long time. I think mom got custody. Wonder if the new fiance plans to have 'eternal' marriage. Mormons teach men "have" to be married "in the temple" to have a chance to pull the "brass ring", exaltation. Wow!!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 263 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.160 |
I should apologise to sp for repeating what he has posted while he is not here to defend himself....but......no | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
Sounds to me like ol' Joseph Smith had a pretty darn good wet dream. You know what I don't want to ever stand to close to a mormon because when that big thunderbolt comes out of the sky I'm not going down with them. This religion is so far fetched. It really, really, really scares me that I almost joined it. I did some non-mormon historical research and wow....It's all there plain as day. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 265 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.48.9 |
I am saying "Thank you" to the Lord for showing you the truth. I'm not kidding, you don't know how relieved I am to hear one person say what you have said. God Bless You and yours! | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
Thank you also godchild for your words and wisdom. I love the Lord and thank Him everyday for helping me see the truth. It is also a blessing to find others who are all seeking his word and truth. God Bless!!! | ||
| peace_that_passes (peace_that_passes) New member Username: peace_that_passes Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 70.93.28.185 |
to bfowler, they are people with the same last name as you that i met thru a friend several years ago. they are christians, not mormons. was wondering if you were one of them by chance or a relative. GBU | ||
| bfowler (bfowler) New member Username: bfowler Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.110.214.79 |
Hello Peace: No I don't know them but I'm glad they are Christians too. Have a nice day. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 271 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.59 |
I think SP's last post was 2-8, according to this thread. I haven't checked all of the thread. If he has been sick this long, I hope he has changed his mind about going to the hospital. In his last post here he asked "since Jesus gave other commandments, how can you say that all you need is to believe? Jesus was saying in sp's verses 'if you love, keep my commandments'. The last commandment Jesus gave was to LOVE one another as thyself. This is not saying if you don't do all my commandments, you lose your salvation. Salvation is assured when the instant we talk to God and say we believe Jesus Christ is his son, and ask for him to forgive us our sins. Jesus says in Matthew you can be forgiven even for speaking against him, but you cannot be forgiven for 'grieving the Holy Spirit'. He said also to the man who had asked Jesus to save his daughter's life after men came in and told them the daughter was dead, therefore the man no longer needed Jesus. But Jesus said "Now don't be afraid, just keep on believing", then went in to the girl and told her to get up, and she did. Faith saves, faith heals. The father had the faith to believe that Jesus could heal his dying daughter. If our faith, trust, belief, is in Jesus Christ, we don't need to be afraid. If that weren't true, I believe Jesus would have gone back to the people he healed and said, you sinned after I healed you. Drop Dead! That is a terrible way to think about our Lord. And a fearful way to live, and to many many mormons, an impossible way to live. I can't get out of my mind the young man who killed his wife and unborn child a few months ago. He couldn't bear to be caught in his lies. He had been pretending (he was mormon) to do everything demanded him by his wife, his parents, inlaws, and the church. I knew when this happened the church's demands caused him to commit such horrendous crimes along with his own sad ideas of what love means. I think that poor man believed all the people, the very church he had lived by, would stop loving him if they found out the truth. This is not the only case such as this. Suicide is prevalent in the mormon church. Another man sent bombs to kill members when he knew he was being found out. He was selling fake documents to the church and they believed they were verified by their own experts. Mormonism is an ever spinning web of lies and deceit. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 276 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.14 |
The diciples came to Jesus and told him others were speaking in his name. Jesus replied, let them. Those who are for me cannot be against me. Satan, on the other hand, lives in a house divided. A house divided against itself cannot stand. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 277 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.14 |
There was an earlier post by anonymous labeled Mormon Church Controls Salt Lake Block. On another thread I read 'a federal judge ruled city who legislated "not handing out leaflets on church owned grounds", Not Constitutional. | ||
| psalm5613 (psalm5613) New member Username: psalm5613 Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.39.68.108 |
“I love taking advantage of someone’s free will. I love my complete freedom to wield my lies to an unsuspecting and ignorant world.” Lucifer raised his voice. “Hear my truth now, oh unsuspecting world! There are many interpretations to his book! There are many paths to the truth! There are many roads to heaven! A truly spiritual person is one willing to take his own individual walk. After all, many worship the same deity—don’t they?—whether that deity is the God of Mormonism, the Jehovah of the Watchtower, or the Allah of Islam. “Those who refuse to accept this all-encompassing God are bigoted in their thinking. Their intolerance should not be tolerated. Those narrow-minded Christians, who claim that there is only one way to God, and that is through his Son, are spiritual terrorists who stand in the way of all truly spiritual free thinkers. The Christians are the problem—they and their Savior. Their insistence that Jesus is God is a slap in the face to all true followers of supernatural guidance. The Christians are the real danger for their demanding narrowness. One way to God: by the Son of God, they state, they preach, they write, they sing. No wonder people by the billions flock to my voice away from the voice of the Lamb, for mine is a sweet, tantalizing voice of self-righteousness, of determining your own path of spirituality, of finding the god that is already in each of them. Mine is the voice of individual spirituality without any restrictions to the world and everything that it offers. Nothing is ever really wrong, except bigotry, and those Christians are some of the worst! Christians and their narrow-mindedness are the great evil in the world, not me. They stand in the way of every freedom-loving person. Everything worthwhile and lasting comes about by tolerance, education, adjustment and evolution…never by faith! This is how the people shall solve the problems of the world, and that is how they shall reach a higher level of achievement. Through their spiritual evolutionary growth, they shall achieve godhood for themselves. Why seek one path to Yahweh’s kingdom, one that narrows the mind and restricts the fun of life at that? Instead, isn’t it much better to take the many paths to my kingdom, where I invite diversity and freethinking? You can’t do any wrong in my kingdom!” From "Interview with Lucifer" by Rollin Miller www.interviewwithlucifer.com rollin@interviewwithlucifer.com | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 91 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
At least a different excerpt. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 329 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.89 |
Please see the thread 'to all antimormons from a mormon to read what I have typed from a 'LDS' book titled "Gospel Principles", published by the LDS church from 1978-1997. There is something typed at the bottom of the copywrite page. I am curious. It says English approval:6/96 Does this mean it was only approved in English on this date? The last chapter of this book describes 'Exaltation', and says very definitely men can become God, JUST LIKE our Heavenly Father, with all his power. Quote: This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God...He was once a man like us;...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,pp.345-46) It is a shame that many people including myself did not find out about this teaching for many years. JS said it was the first principle, but it is in the VERY LAST CHAPTER of this book. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 104 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: It is difficult to see something when looking in the opposite direction - know what I mean? Hold it, didn't you say on another posting that you had NEVER heard of this Doctrine whilst a member of the church - what a wicked web you weave when you seek to decieve! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 330 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.229 |
I was taught there were three heavens when I was a mormon, not that there were three parts of the celestial kingdom. That was a new one to me. Just as you continue to try and imply that you can become LIKE God, your deceit has come right around and bit you in the arse!!!!!!!! You can no longer hide behind the lies. There was no deceit on my part, only on yours, you foolish person. "Be sure your sin will find you out!" It might be remembered I also said in an earlier post, I can be a mother bear when I need to. I learned many years ago growing up in Alaska, you can't run from a bear, because she/he will circle around you before you realize it. Take a lesson! | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Your ignorance will out, and I'm sure you have very little arse left to be bitten by now the way your lies and contortions have left you with nothing to argue about - claim you know nothing one minute then an expert the next - THAT is foolishness! A Bear arse? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 109 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Hey, just relaised how fake your response re: ASS U ME really was, you are a sliperry character - reminds me of a story in the Bible!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 336 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.21 |
Author Martha Nibley Beck appears on Good Morning America; she wrote "Leaving the Saints", explains why she left the mormon church and published this book. Her father was Hugh Nibley, who was considered 'mormon royaltly'. For more, please see post on "why people hate mormons" dated 3/7/05 | ||
| bee (bee) Junior Member Username: bee Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.30.1.2 |
Hi godchild, I hope you are well. I thought I remembered you asking a question on a board asking if one had to belong to a particular church or denomination. I had wanted to write on the board to you're question & cannot find the thread anymore. If you still wanted I would like to share my thoughts with you on this either here or the thread if you would like to remind which it was. Lord Bless You. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 339 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.21 |
Bee, I would be happy to correspond with you anytime. It does become difficult keeping track of all the threads. I think it was on "christianity" but am not sure. If this has become a 'trash godchild' thread, so be it. It doesn't matter one whit what people think of me. God knows my heart. I will accept his judgement with joy and peace. | ||
| bee (bee) Junior Member Username: bee Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.30.1.2 |
Hi GC, I left it under the Christianity thread for you. I look forward to talking with you again. Blessings! | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 113 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: The intention is not to trash you as a person at all, but to expose the rediculous falsehoods that are repeated about the LDS church - you position yourself next to these falsehoods and will therefore feel the effect of this. Dsitance yourself, and you will see more clearly the lack of foundation much of what you say has. Simply, if you choose to bear false witness against what I believe, and ultimately me, then I have the right to defend it and myself, do you not agree? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 344 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.125 |
IF ANY MAN OR WOMAN WANTS TO BE A GOD OR GODDESS, JOIN THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. Joseph Smith, first socalled prophet of the lds church said, THIS IS THE WAY OUR HEAVENLY FATHER BECAME GOD.Joseph Smith said,"It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God;...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did." From 'Gospel Principles', (book recommended by mormon posters on mormon threads), page 305 This book was published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 126 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: I AM NOT SURE IF YOU REALISE THAT ALTHOUGH YOU KNOW THE POINT YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO MAKE WITH POSTING THESE EXCERPTS (WHICH BY THE WAY I HAVE NOT BOTHERED CHECKING FOR ACCURACY) IT IS LOST BY DOING SO WITHOUT ANY CONTEXT - YOU NEED TO SAY WHAT YOU THINK THE THINGS SAY. YOU OBVIOUSLY NEED LESSONS IN BASHING ON MORMONS, WHICH I WILL PROVIDE FREE OF CHARGE.  | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 357 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.94 |
Joesdad says, Simply, if you choose to bear false witness against what I believe, and ultimately me, then I have the right to defend it and myself, do you not agree? Then, he goes on to say what I post is lost by doing it without any context-you need to say what you think the things say.(Which by the way I have not bothered checking for accuracy).his words I am not bashing anyone, I am exposing along with others, the satanic beliefs of your leaders, and the books they wrote/write saying they are told these things by GOD!I don't need to say AGAIN and AGAIN what I think these books say. It is for others to read and pray as to whether these things are of Satan. Your prophets listen to and follow a false god and are dragging millions of people with them to hell. I would be kicking and screaming and saying, "No, NO, NO!", but Satan has so much power over this organization it's members (well-meaning, confused, or selfrighteous people say, "I felt the burning in my bosom". Christians do not need a burning feeling in our chests. God speaks to us quietly and sweetly, saying, 'come, follow me, I will give you rest; I ask for nothing, just trust me and have faith in my words'. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: So much waffle, very little content - you do not indicate what these books say - reread your postings - you tell us what you think we believe, and then expect others to see in what you copy as being in support of that, when it is not. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 366 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.41 |
Jiminy. You are dense, aren't you? Get a life, hopefully one with God in it. I have a suggeston for you. Give yourself a break and go to the thread 'Salvation and how do I know I have it'. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 130 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: Hmm constructive | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 136 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
There are some things that I have noticed in the short while I have been posting to these threads. 1) What I assume was meant to be a forum for the serious discussion and debate of groups or “cults”, and for those who have had experiences of those groups, has become a bit of a free for all, with anyone being able to accuse any group of being a cult, with no reference whatsoever to FACTNETS own “definition” of a cult. These threads are often started with spurious comments, and descend very quickly into abusive slanging matches. I am surprised that, as the sites founders indicate it is concerned at the level of different types of abuse that takes place within such groups, those who claim to have suffered cause suffering to others by their often ill thought out comments, and accusations with no basis or structure. 2) On these particular threads (LDS – Mormon ones) that there are several voices that are heard often, some very frequently. Those heard most frequently speaking against the LDS church have very similar ways of communicating, viz. They will 1) Make offensive attacks either directly at others or at the church; 2) Make unsubstantiated claims against the church or members of it; 3) Misquote what they consider to be authoritative texts, and use documents never accepted by the church as defining it’s beliefs; 4) Knowingly make statements about the church’s beliefs that either do not correctly represent the actual beliefs of members, or are total falsehoods made knowing that they are falsehoods (lies basically), 5) Assume that as they are posting on a thread that they consider being their chance to abuse the church and it’s members, and pat each other on the back for doing so, that when any accusation they make is properly and substantially refuted or replied to, they can simply ignore that fact and continue to repeat their accusations; 6) When they are asked direct questions regarding knowledge that they claim to have, they do not answer or become abusive. 3) Franklin, has a bit of a supporting role for the great I am (self appointed), and defender of Chritianity (all sects of it that agree with anything she might say irrespective of whether they actually believe in the same thing), he pops in – fires questions or abuse, then runs away – any direct questions directed at him are ignored, probably as he has no idea of either what he is supposed to believe according to whatever belief system he subscribes to, or he simply has no idea what he is talking about – cheap shots are his speciality. 4) Godchild, the great I am referred to above, is a real character. She has many sides to her. The sweet innocent victim of the evil Mormon Sect, to the abusive Grizzly Bear who bears her teeth and swipes her well sharpened claws at any that might suggest she doesn’t know what the heck she is talking about. Her story is interesting, having claimed to have been a member of the church for anywhere up to 26 years, she shows amazing lack of knowledge of what the church believes in or teaches. Reading her story leads one to the conclusion that either 1) she has a learning disorder that does not allow her to understand plain and simple things said to her, and distorts them in her mind so they are stored in an unrecognisable form; 2) If she was ever associated with the church, insofar as being a member, it was for a very short time and she is dishonestly representing herself as an experienced member of the church; 3) she suffers from a selective sleeping disorder that meant she was wide awake during her time in the church except for when attending church meetings, when she slept so soundly that she was unaware of where she was or what was being said to her ( this is in my opinion believable considering some of the sacrament talks I have listened to); 4) She was unhappy as a member of the church, we don’t really know why but it is possible she simply found it too restrictive for her, and rather than simply leaving and getting on with her life, she thought she would leave and attempt to “show it up”, or it’s leaders at least, as she left. She must have known the reaction that this would create, but proceeded anyway. When the church asked her not to do this, she ignored it and now expresses indignation at the churches responses (that was pretty dumb!). Hence my reference to her acting as a woman scorned; or maybe 5) She is just someone who claims Christian virtues, shows few of the and is a compulsive liar. She has convinced herself that she has the right to lie, and get away with it. 5) I do not think it correct that I refer to GC as being a liar without substantiating what I say. Her claim to membership of the church raises just about all of the concerns I have on this point. I have asked a few members of the church (not telling them why I ask) if they see a difference to someone being excommunicated from the church as GC first claimed she was, and someone leaving the church of their own accord. Each said that there is a big difference, however GC having declared to all the world that she had taken both paths, when asked directly to explain the difference (as anyone involved in the church should be able to do without question) she whines and tells me to mind my own business!. I am convinced the reason for this reaction is that she simply does not know – she has lied at some point, and is unable to back track – to cover her “cock-up” she simply tries to hide it under lots of abuse and repeated accusations. Likewise, anyone involved with the church would know we do not believe God and Mary had actual physical sex – yet GC claims she was taught this – this is obviously a lie. Her claims about our becoming God, is all taken from an anti-LDS distortion of the truth – not her experience in the church – like much of what she says. Even when she does ATTEMPT so substantiate what she says with quotes, they are so out of order and confused, with no comment from her as to what she feels they say to support her claims, they become no more than a breach of copyright. GC is manipulating those who read these threads by claiming to have been a member of the church, as those wanting to believe the falsehoods they have previously heard about the church, will feel further justified if these lies are backed up by an “ex-Mormon”. I know that this is how Satan works, but is also one of the methods of indoctrination used by the sects this site was created to expose. If you believe her, you are simply falling into her trap, when you seek to deceive what a wicked web you weave – that is GC to a T. 6) There are many web sites that exist simply because the creators of them left or were removed from the church in circumstances that they caused, but choose to accuse the church rather than accept responsibility for their own actions. They collectively are as much threat to the church as a gnat biting an elephants bum. Just thought I’d mention it | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 424 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.112 |
Factnet's criteria for a cult absolutely includes mormonism. Joseph Smith said he would sit at the right hand of God. The Holy Bible says Jesus will sit at the right hand of God. Solopilot said js only meant all believers will be at the right hand of God. That is not what js said. They are most definitely a cult. When a mormon declares: Why do you care about a rich little white girl anyway? Millions of people are murdered every year. It's probably just as well as it saves us having another Pia Zedora. (He was speaking about Jon Benet Ramsey, who no matter how white, or how rich her family was, was a innocent young child who was murdered in her own home), it makes me wonder how he can call himself a christian. Gospel Principles states members may make decisions different from church principles having to do with their family, but they must never disagree with the church leaders. Mormons believe men can and will become gods, in fact they believe the heavenly Father was once a man (see Gospel Principles). Joseph Smith declared he was the only man, including Christ, who ever kept a church together. Brigham Young stated, "When a prophet speaks, it is from God", and yet members here say we shouldn't take what they have said as gospel, even shen those words are spoken at Conference where members go to learn about their church. These beliefs are not only blasphemous, they are satanic. Joseph Smith added and took away from the scriptures, the Holy Bible. The Mormon church still adds and takes away doctrine which they say are of God. | ||
| infoman (infoman) Intermediate Member Username: infoman Post Number: 164 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.175.179.251 |
Why the LDS Church is a Cult: Theological Differences Between Christian and LDS Doctrines by Rich Deem The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) claims to be the true Christian church. The LDS church does not like being referred to as a cult, but they are a cult because their teachings differ significantly from historic Christian theology. This page explains what specific LDS doctrines make the LDS church a cult. As you will see, these differences are not merely minor changes in theology, but major disagreements about the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and mankind. All material presented on this page comes directly from LDS scripture (the "Standard Works") or the current LDS teaching book, Gospel Principles. Links to the official LDS website (lds.org) for all supporting information can be found in the references. This paper examines some of the most fundamental aspects of theology: The nature of God Christianity - one God LDS church - many gods Christianity - God is Spirit LDS Church - God has a physical body Christianity - God is eternal LDS Church - God was created The nature of Jesus Christ Christianity - only begotten son of God LDS church - first of many sons The nature of mankind Christianity - no human preexistence LDS Church - humans preexisted as spirit beings Christianity - humans cannot become gods LDS Church - humans can become gods The nature of the creation Christianity - God created from nothing LDS Church - God organizes existing matter References and volumes of information on the LDS and the Mormon distortions are at the linked site below. http://www.godandscience.org/cults/mormdiff.html#references | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 425 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.92 |
Infoman, may I continue? THE NATURE OF GOD The LDS church promotes a theology about the nature of God that is radically different from orthodox Christianity. LDS doctrine states that gods, angels and humans are all different formsof the same beings.These beings begin their existence as spirit children-created through celestial procreation. Not only do we have a heavenly Father, but we also have a heavenly Mother. The spirit children produced by this union are said to be the angels. Some of these angels, led by satan rebelled against God-becoming the demons. At some point, the obedient spirit children are given physical bodies and come to earth as human beings. Based upon their actions, these humans who have followed the "gospel" of the LDS church will go to the celestial kingdom and themselves become gods and goddesses. CHRISTIANITY - ONE GOD Christianity is monotheistic - the belief in one God. It originally split from Judaism by recognizing Jesus of Nazareth as the promised Jewish Messiah. The core belief of of Judaism that separated it from the pagan cultures surrounding it was monotheism. The Hebrew Shema (pronounced Shmah) says, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord." Many other Old Testament verses affirm monotheism. Christianity continues the Judaic doctrine that there has been and always will be only one God - Chreator, Sustainer, and Savior - over all creation. The concept is specifically stated throughout the New Testament (along with the Hebrew Old Testament). Jesus Himself affirmed the Shema in the Book of Mark: Jesus answered, "The foremost (commandment) is, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord;" (Mark 12:29) Other New Testament passages that affirm monotheism are listed below: * "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another, and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? (John 5:44) * "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent. (John 17:3) *To the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen. (Romans 16:27) *Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. (1 Corinthians 8:4) *Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist through HIm. (1 Corinthians 8:6) *Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God in only one. (Galatians 3:20) * There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of youir calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6) * Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (1 Timothy 1:17) * For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5) * You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. (James 2:19) * To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be gloryt, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25) Infoman, this link is exceptional for evidence and documentation (godandscience.org) Thank you. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 427 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.75 |
I have been accused many times on these posts of being a liar. I am very offended by that and will do my best to show that the mormon doctrines I talked about are true. The first was the form of God. Now I will let you read what the Mormon leaders say about our Savior and the Virgin Mary: GODS MUST HAVE WIVES If none but gods will be prmitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives. God, the Father of our spirts, became the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158 MARY AND GOD WERE MARRIED The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife, hence the Virgin mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158 (Every time I see this crap it makes my skin crawl. It is all I can do to type it. I don't even want to have it on my mind, as I feel it is the worst sin against God imagineable. I think it is necessary, painful as it is, to expose the truth.) JOSEPH WAS HER SECOND HUSBAND Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in the mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158 The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:268 THE BIBLE IS WRONG Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th Prophet of the Mormon Church: "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotyten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The book of Mormon teaches No Such Thing! Neither does the Bible!"-Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18 GOD IS A MAN "Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!" Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18 AN ACT OF THE FLESH The birth of the savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood-was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers.-Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:113 In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my savior Jesus Christ. According to the scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it.-Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 8:211 NOT OF THE HOLY GHOST "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. 'What a learned idea' Jesus, our elder brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven.' 'Now Remember from thios time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject when I replied to this idea- "If the son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females and give the Holy Ghose to them, lest he should beget children to be palmed off on the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties."..But what do the people in Christendoim, with the Bible in their hands, know but this subject? Comparatively NOthing."-Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1:50-51 (These men were so dispicable, with so little consideration for women it is a wonder they weren't all murdered.) | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 174 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
gc: WHERE DID YOU COPY THIS FROM? | ||
| mksugumaran (mksugumaran) Intermediate Member Username: mksugumaran Post Number: 113 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 210.212.245.147 |
This post is only for GODCHILD GOD- Great Omnipotent Design The Truth of God: God is Truth. Knowing God is Knowing the Truth. GOD is the Great Omnipotent Design. The meanings of Omnipotent are powerful, always powerful, always ruling, Supreme and the Greatest and absolute. I use the word Design in lieu of Designer. Because there is lot of difference between the Designer and the Design. Designer means one who designed the machine or mechanism and being away from the machine or mechanism who is using it. But the Design is always being present and working inside the machine or mechanism. From this explanation I am saying that the GOD is present in everything from the creation to transformation to till date and will be present in future also. Laws of God: Now the modern physics has invented that everything is made up of atoms, which consists of Protons, Neutrons and Electrons. And also it is known that the light is made up of atoms called photons, which has very tiny mass particle with high velocity. It is relating to the launch of the Holy Bible’s Genesis that the ‘God said let there be light and the light was created’. As a Creator or Designer he is away from the light created, but as a Design he is present in the light and the light is a Great Omnipotent Design. Here after wherever I use the word God it only means the Great Omnipotent Design and I am not meaning to other conventional Gods. The first law of GOD is that “If there is a willingness or wish to create or happen, it will be fulfilled “. This has been applied to God during the very first creation of the Light. So to feel the output of the light, God thought of creating variations or aberrations in its light form, this made the waves of light with different velocities, wavelengths in its tiny masses. The thought may be called as consciousness, which is the source of thinking something to happen. When the consciousness is so involved totally to create or transform something, it happens as per the first law. As we know in our practical life, it is very difficult to do anything at first, but afterwards it becomes so easy and we improve the same thing further. The very same is applicable to God also. The second law of GOD is that “If anything is created or happened, which will be multiplied into many with modifications” that has been applied to God during the very first creation of Light. But after creation of first light particle, it was so easy to create many particles with modifications. Do not think that God was away from light and became light along with modifications. Due to formation of waves in the light of god, the tiny mass particles started accumulating around the center of waves, which made the god to form these masses into planets and the wish was fulfilled by formation of planets, stars etc. and the presence of god is also expanded to all the creations. Our modern Physics also invented that there is attractive forces exists in between the planets and stars. They also found that there is radiation from one planet to other planets in different manner. But all these links invented by modern physics and not yet invented are all present from the very formation in the Great omnipotent design. Theory of Relativity on life: Albert Einstein has invented atomic energy formula E=mc2 Where E is the energy created by transformation of mass m is equal to value of mass multiplied by the square of the velocity of the light. In fact he has not done any physical test on atomic energy and he invented the fact that mass is formed out of light, which is basic fact behind the atomic energy. He had also invented theory of relativity, which is based on the light energy. Unfortunately at that time he was not able to explain the basic concept behind that theory. There is a fact behind that theory which we can get a glimpse of understanding by the following example. Let us take an example of a human being and a dog. The life span of a human being is 100 years. The life span of a dog is 15 years. Why this difference? I want to explain the theory of relativity from this example. In India and many other countries there is some science of astrology, which is based on the relativity between the position of the celestial bodies such as planets or Stars. Now I do not want to confuse you with predictions of life based on astrology. I just want to explain the difference in life span of a man and dog. Though medical science has found so many things, the function of brain is controversial for all living things. I want to give you a new thought on the function of brain. Actually the brain is functioning based on the signals it is receiving from a distant planet or star. In the universe there are infinite numbers of celestial bodies, which are emitting signals or radiation. Let us think that the location of a man and dog on earth at one place is stationery relative to some two distant planets, which are moving from one direction to other direction crossing the position of man and dog. If you assume that the distance of the planet sending the signals to man is relatively more than the planet sending signals to dog and both planets are moving with same speed. The time taken by the planet to be in direct contact with man is more than the planet to be in direct contact with dog. That is why the life span of man and dog is different. This is only an example for simple understanding, but very actual function is different, which I will explain later. GOD is Alive and Active: God has not only created light and mass bodies’ formed out of accumulation of light particles. God cannot be silent with what was created and happened. If it is silent and felt that is enough, then God is not active, not alive and he is a designer who is away from its creations. But God is always active and alive and its presence in everything made its capacity more and more. Its consciousness was going on expanding on creating new things which are entirely different from existing things. You can see that every thing is unique in nature of God. If you look very deep into the similar plants, you will find a difference in every leaf of that. That is the specialty of creativity of God and its presence in every thing is entirely different from others. But I am not saying that God has created every thing by just imagining or dreaming something to happen. In fact God has no time to think, imagine or dream, but only one fact is that he is always active and doing something leads to create many new things as the time goes on. It might have taken many millions of years to come to this present stage. But God is still very active and fresh and will be so forever and at the same time his presence will be going on expanding and leading. The law of reason for happenings (Karma): God has created a lot of things that made him create more things for balanced existence. Let us think our earth planet, on which it was happened to create microbiological organisms that can be alive and grow using the existing potentials on the earth. Then they are able to develop them into plants and trees on earth and sea. The development of only plants and trees both on earth and in sea has multiplied and spread all over places with an extra-ordinary growth and all of them enjoyed their existence with presence of god within them. To create more aliveness the evolution of movable creatures on earth is started from small worms and fishes on earth that can utilize the dry or dead portions of plants and trees on earth and in sea as balancing measure to have a clean earth. The worms and fishes also multiplied and spread all over the earth and they also enjoyed their life with presence of god in them. Once the population of movable worms and fishes increased over a limit they started eating the fresh and alive portions of plants and trees for their aliveness. Then movable creatures disturb the god in fresh plants. To balance them it was necessary to control the development or domination of movable creatures over the plants. This situation made god to design some bigger movable creatures to live by eating the flesh of the movable worms that injures the fresh plants as a balancing measure. To have a justice in the design it was designed that the bigger worms should eat only the worms that are injuring the living plants. But the bigger worms had also done mistakes by eating the worms that are not injuring the living plants similar to the first small worms designed to eat only the dead portions of plants had done the mistake by eating the living portions of plants. To balance these types of mistakes and give justice or punishment to those doing wrong things, the design of “law of reason for happenings(Karma)” the Third law of God was introduced. The law of Karma is nothing but similar to the law of energy to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction with slight modification. In the law of reason for happenings(Karma) time also plays an important role. In our practical life we can see some people doing activities injurious to or affecting others are punished by court. This is what we see as law of Karma. The law of reason for happenings(karma) acts on everybody in an indirect way. Everyone is facing good and bad due to this law.. If we sow a seed of a fruit and in course of time it grows and gives us lot of fruits. If we sow a seed of a tree with more needles and in course of time it also grows and punctures many foots with needles. That shows the growth of reactions to our actions with time. This law is automatically in-built mechanism in Great Omnipotent Design which governs the Universe. This type of evolution can be compared to invention of electricity to the evolution of modern electronics and communication systems which shows a lot of change with eradication of previous designs. Activation of brains: Now I want to disclose the secret of signals and the actions according to that. In our Solar system the Planet Jupiter is the largest planet in mass and size. The Planet Jupiter acts as natural satellite for receiving and sending signals to and fro with every being on earth to its parent planet in the universe. That is why the Planet Jupiter is given more importance in India and many other countries also. Why the Planet Jupiter is given such an importance? The very simple reason is its gravity or attraction is more than other planets due to its heavy mass property. The Jupiter attracted the recent falling of a celestial body into solar system and fall into Jupiter surface is an example. The modern physics also found out that every thing has its own radioactivity and emitting signals, which cannot be sensed by the instruments. But only Kirlian photography has proved that every thing is emitting some sort of signals, which needs further research to differentiate between them. But our brain functions are seem to be a mystery to the medical world and many theories are developed in a manner that one invention on brains activity dispose the previous invention. The real reason is that no doctor or scholar is testing his own brain and he is going on doing experiments on others brain. But in India some of the saints has studied and developed that the life of human beings correlating to the position of planets in the name of Astrology. But I am not agreeing that they are correct in their predictions of life. But I accept that they experienced the signals received from various planets and the differentiation between them which affect the brain activity and hence the life of human beings. The very similar astrology has been developed in many parts of the world also in ancient periods. Nowadays, the modern scientists predict lunar and solar eclipses by physically viewing the position of planets by telescopes. The old astrological calculations match does the same predictions exactly, that brings a mystery of how those calculations are discovered and how they are able to find the locations of planets without using telescopes. The fact is that they are able to experience or feel the signals from various planets and able to differentiate them qualitatively and quantitatively which made them predict the locations of planets and their path. They also denoted the physical locations on our human body, which connects with those signals, and they are Top head point (Sahasrar), fore head point (the space between eye brows called agna), back head point (the point directly back of fore head point). That is why the Indian God Shiva is scripted as a man having a moon on his head. It does not mean that Lord Shiva is a very tall and big man to a height of distance of moon and it means only a man called Shiva was only a 6’ height but he was able to experience or feel the location of moon relative to earth and path of its movement in its brain. The Secret of Birth and Death: Each and every beings living in this world are interested to go on living without facing the death. Particularly the human beings are very much interested to live without death. The present medical science is also trying to achieve the same. But not yet succeeded. Even now some people believe that after the death the God will provide them heaven or hell based on the performance of life. But it is not known that whether god has provided them. To know the secret of death, it is essential to know the secret of the birth, by means of which one can understand its own self. If you understand yourself and the presence of god within you in the form of a design, you'll understand that the same occupies everything. Only this knowledge will help you to know the secrets of the Universe. It is very difficult to convey the knowledge of the great omnipotent design. From ancient times to till now, many saints and intelligent people born in this world, who experienced the presence of god and its base. But they are not able to transfer the knowledge of the great secret to others due to the poor knowledge of science. Now the present scientific knowledge of the people makes them ableto understand the design to some extent. But it does not bring the people to feel or experience. Let us consider the basic concepts of astrology followed in India and many other countries. Based on the Time of birth of a person his astrological predictions are calculated from the position of the planets at the time of birth. The life of every one is unique on this earth. Even the lives of 2 persons born at the same place and at the same moment are not similar. It shows that there is an important variable missed in the existing astrology. There are infinite numbers of stars in the sky. If the stars are correlated to the life of living things, then each star represent a living thing on the earth. Then only the unique life of living things representing the unique star in the sky is correct. This not only applies to human beings but also all living things on the earth. Let us consider a star in the sky sending signals to the planet earth through the natural satellite Jupiter. At the same time there is some facility available on earth to receive the signals to act accordingly and send the reply to the same star through the same natural satellite Jupiter. Here on the earth what is the facility available to do such communication? It is nothing but the design present in living being. For human beings the communication is established with the parent star through the brain. The brain acts according to the signals or commands it receives and activates the body to do certain things. Mostly on the earth all living beings except human beings are living their life based on the signals they receive since there is nobody to condition or control the lifestyle of those living beings. Causes for Increase in Population: In case of human beings it is not so. The human beings are controlled or conditioned from the very start of conceive in the mother’s womb. From the date of birth of a baby it was taught so many things by its relatives, father and mother. From the school days he or she was taught many things by the teacher. Hence for human beings so many things are taught so that they can act individually according to their own wish. That is why the human beings are not only acting according to the signals from the parent star but also act individually according to their wish. When they are children their brain is not fully dumped with learning from others. That is why children are more responsive to the signals from its parent star. When they became more knowledgeable persons they got their own individuality and become less responsive to the signals from its parent star. Whatever activity done by him on his wish is also being sent as signals to the patent star and recorded. The communication between the individual and the parent star is a bi-directional. I'm not saying that only human beings are acting according to their own wish. The other living beings are also acting according to their own wishes. The human beings are acting more according to their individuality but the other living beings are not acting according to their individuality to the extent of human beings. Many of the Living beings, which are living with or trained by human beings, are behaving similar to human beings. For example, the pet animals like dog, cat, and bird are trained to act according to the commands of their bosses. That is why the pet animals are not more responsive to the original signals received from their parent star. Their activity are also being sent as signals to the parent star and recorded. By living condition of those pets, their willingness to become human beings is created. Their willingness is suitably fulfilled in their forthcoming birth as per the first law of the great omnipotent design. The time between the death of those pets and their rebirth is utilized for the self-movement of the parent star to the expected location in the universe to give rebirth to human beings. This is the one of the reason for the increase of population of mankind in the world. The human beings are also treating some of the living beings in a very bad manner for his selfishness. Some of the living beings used as food for mankind are treated very badly. The animals brought up for the purpose of food for mankind are not even allowed to enjoy their natural sex acts. The populations of those animals are very much increased by artificial instrumentation method. Their life is fully spent in small cabinets and they’re not allowed to act according to their willingness. Their death is also not natural and they are killed for the food of the human beings. Though they are not allowed to live according to the signals they are receiving from their parent Star, their willingness to become the human beings is increased in their mind and their thoughts also sent to their parent stars as signals and recorded. Their willingness will be fulfilled in their forthcoming birth according to the first law of the great omnipotent design. The time between the death of those animals and their rebirth is utilized for the self-movement of the parent stars to the appropriate location in the universe to give birth to human beings. This is also one of the reasons for the increase of population of mankind in the world. Human beings are also killing and destroying many creatures of the nature for their livelihood. The forests are being destroyed and converted into living places for mankind. At that time many of the natural creatures of god like plants, trees and animals are also destroyed. The deforestation activity leads to the ecological destabilization to the great omnipotent design. According to the first law of god the creatures destroyed during the process of deforestation are willing to become human beings to punish them for destroying them from enjoying their existence along with god. According to the first law of god, the willingness of the creatures are fulfilled by relocating the position of the parent stars of those creatures to somewhat higher so that they are able to born as human beings in this earth during the rebirth.. At the same time the third law of god has also come into action in the name of law of reason for happenings(Law of Harvest), which means that those who destroyed others have to be punished for their action. In this manner also the population of the mankind increases in the earth. The increasing population is a major problem in the world. This increase of mankind has been happened due to the misbehavior of them to nature. Instead of enjoying the presence of god in their own selves that people are enjoying by destroying the presence of god in others. The increase in population is also for punishing them in time for what they have done previously. That is why the mankind is not able to enjoy the presence of god in them. They're very much interested in money, material and other things through which they enjoy an imaginary happiness. That type of happiness will never satisfy them. The money, material and others will create only an ambition to get more and more in comparing with others. The very happiness of feeling the existence of god within them is not possible. The enrichment of money and material can create more problems of health in body and mind, but cannot create happiness of enjoying the presence of god. The feeling of presence of god is the only most enjoyable happiness and solves all problems and makes you feel healthier. Once you started feeling it, you will find that everything is made up of god and you will do more respect to everything and feel for the equality among all. The birth of everything in the world is only happening when the signals received from the parent stars and a suitable condition is created to receive the signals and respond to it. Actually at the time of conceiving the signals from various parent stars are being focused at a particular womb during the sex act of all living beings. The interest for the sex act is created in every living being at some particular age, which is called the age of maturity. Why this interest is created? As we know That each and every celestial bodies are interested to attract one another and they're not be able to achieve the motive of getting attached due to the balancing position of the celestial bodies. This earth is a suitable place for them to achieve the motive of getting nearer. There may be some of the other planets in the universe similar to earth, which can also create similar, or some other way to interact with each other. This earth is a beautiful planet, which is suitable for all living planets communicate and make love each other. The stars and planets are moving in the universe in their own direction according to the balanced condition of the universe. So the locations of the parent stars are going on changing relating to this earth and sun family. When the location of the parent star reaches a location so that it’s not able to communicate with the living being in this earth, the natural death of the corresponding living being happens. All the experiences and activities of the living being is recorded in the parent star. The parent star, which lost his life in this Earth, is going on in its natural path of god. When the same star comes back to the location in the universe such that it is able to send signals to the earth to conceive in the womb and able to give birth to a living being the rebirth of the same parent star is created. To Feel the Truth: This is the way in which the birth and rebirth of the living being is happening. This great fact is not known to many of the people. If this fact is known the entire mankind will change their lifestyle. Because this fact makes everybody feel that our life is not ending with the death and it continues. To feel this great fact it is necessary to unlearn lot of things by which our activities of individuality has to leave from us. We should make ourselves more aware for receiving the signals from the parent star. Once you started feeling this experience you will know the secret functions of the great omnipotent design and the very fact about the god. What is the function of the Sun and its Planets: Everyone may feel that everything in this earth is operating based on the signals from the parent star then what's the use of the sun and other planets in the family of the sun. The sun is the most important star for the existence of life in this earth. The modern science also proved that the trees and plants are growing from the light energy received from the sun, which is called as photosynthesis. All other living beings are getting their food from the plants and trees. So without the sun and the Photosynthesis of the plants no life can exist on this earth. The other planets in the family of the sun also play an important role in each and every life of everything on this earth. All physical energy we receive only from the sun and planets of the family of the sun. If we are all living on only the physical energy received from the sun and planets of the family of the sun we will not face the death, because those energies are available to us throughout the day and night of every day. Each and every planet in the family of the sun and the sun are giving different kind of energy to everything on this earth and we are living in the energy field of the sun. But, controlling unit for this life energy is located in a distant parent Star similar to an artificial satellite or robot sent from this earth to some other planet designed to get the energy for its operation from solar power but the signals for its every activity is sent from this earth station and also to receive signals from the satellite to this earth station. Now the technology is improved such that the communication between various places on the earth and also from this earth to distant satellites is happening through some sort of signals. We are also using most of the instruments in our daily life such as television, telephone, mobile phone etc. that are working based on the signals for communication purposes. We cannot deny those signals since we are not able to see them with our naked eye. Similarly we cannot deny those signals, which are happening between the living beings on the earth and the parent stars. Only the brains of the living beings are designed to be sensitive enough to receive and respond to those signals. That is the great omnipotent design. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Run with it GC!!!!  | ||
| mksugumaran (mksugumaran) Intermediate Member Username: mksugumaran Post Number: 114 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 210.212.245.147 |
 don't want truth joesdad? It requires intelligence. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Mk: Hhehehehehe Hahahahah errrm, yep, I'll leave it up to GC's infinitely greater intelligence to decipher your confusion of gobbledegook - she can make lies out of commeon sense, she most certainly will make sense of your, well not sure how to really define it, Christ the Scientist mixed with bad English, and a few weird ideas mixed in. No, in reality I think GC will see that what you have to say does not have much to do with the God she knows and loves. GC: Far from showing these things to be true, you are actually and puposely overlooking or ignoring the other discussions we have had on these points - that is where you prove yourself a liar - someone who repeats an untruth whilst knowing what the truth really is - you can't run away from the things you have accepted that I and other have said, and the explanations given previously - come on, at least show some level of honesty and integrity!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 428 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.253 |
mksugu, I agree with some of what you are saying. I think you are wrong about the purpose of human and other creatures on the earth. Yes, God is omnipotent. I don't believe our purpose is to allow planets to have a fulfilled life. I also do not believe in reincarnation, (that an animal can be reborn as a human). God created us in his likeness, we have a soul. We are asked, required, to be good stewards of all he has provided for us. We are failing but God does not want to lose us, therefore he made himself man to sacrifice himself for us. Can any other being love that much? He is always faithful, always unchanging, always loving, always truth, life and light. He is All and he has offered to share that with us, to adopt us, to share his glory with us in eternity. Not as a clone of him, but as a loving father, we are his children. Why would anyone want more, or think they have the power in themselves by doing works to become him. Why isn't his gift enough? There is one very interesting point you made that I have given a lot of thought to over the years. I believe everything we say aloud (breathed) is out there and we will be accountable for it, for good or evil. I believe God created me 'for his purposes'. If the setting of the planets, stars, and sun fulfills his purposes, fine, but I don't need to study them and consider how my thoughts affect them. I believe we need to be CENTERED ON GOD, and good stewards of his creation. Because he is the allpowerful creator, I put my trust in his design and his designs on my life. I should say I try. There are always things thrown in my way, whether it be by: other humans, the weather, day or night, what I eat, etc., it is what I do with them in either a positive or negative manner. I don't always succeed, in fact I am afraid I succeed very little, but I am thinking as a human, and need to remind myself that God is patient, that his love is neverending, and I am his. He is the great designer and I know he is perfection. As I 'let go and let God', my life is simple joy. It is when I allow distractions that are negative, whether in thought or action, that I slip away from that, slowly but surely. It is said that when we are concentrating on our own self that we are furthest from God. I agree. When I am feeling selfpity, or building myself up, that I need to give my time and efforts to simple prayer, meditation, or doing a small (for me) but large (for another) deed. In other words, getting my mind off myself. I trust and believe God gave me his word, which are his promises to me. I do not need astrology, belief in reincarnation, geneologies, or rituals. I need God. Period. I guess it would be like a person jumping out of a plane with parachute on his back. They put their life in the hands of whether the chute opens or whether it does not. What they are required to do, is pull the cord. The rest is up to the chute. This is probably a poor analogy, but as I have a fear of heights, (vertigo)it is a pretty strong one for me. Your message was very interesting and I can see a lot of study has gone into it. I'm not good at physics and have no interest in astrology. I'm afraid I'm one of those people who does not see the need of intelligence and much as I see the need of common sense. The most uneducated person can understqnd God because they feel and see his presence in everything. I, for one, am grateful for that alone. I thank him because I love and appreciate him, not because I am required to. I try to keep it as simple as I can. Does this make sense to you. God bless | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Well done, I knew you could do it!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 429 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.253 |
I never purchased a kjv or used a Holy Bible published by the lds church, therefore I never saw footnotes of js's translation. If mormons believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, why would they only accept his translation in the footnotes? Why do they not accept it as the corrected Bible? In other words, why not simply use his version and do away with the kjv, especially as they say much of it is translated incorrectly? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 430 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.253 |
Are all records of excommunication available to the public from the lds church? If they are, I will get a copy of my own to show interested people that I have not lied. In fact, I will give my name, address, email, and former address if it is possible to get a copy (of the original sent to me). | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 431 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.253 |
Joesdad, you said yourself, all the information about the history of the church has been 'out there' for all to see, so why the question as to where I 'copied' this from? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 432 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.253 |
cont: Bruce R. McConkie, deceased member of the 12 Apostles (d.1985) and leading LDS theologian, writes in MORMON DOCTRINE SON OF GOD;God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says--page 742) SON OF MAN;Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the eternal God!) is a Holy Man. "In the language of dam, Man of Holiness" is the name of God. page 742 SON OF MARY:...but the Holy ghost is not the Father of Christ and when the Child was born, he was "the Son of the eternal Father. --page 743 ONLY BEGOTTEN SON:These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only, begotten means begotten, and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.--page 546 | ||
| mksugumaran (mksugumaran) Intermediate Member Username: mksugumaran Post Number: 116 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 210.212.245.147 |
Dear GodChild, I posted the above Great Omnipotent Design to You only. I do not expect you to believe all the messages I have posted. By seeing your previous postings I came to Know that your belief of presence of God in every thing seems correct to me. That is why I posted the above message of my belief and experience on God. I want to say onething that Intelligence comes out of innocence. Definitely the uneducated people can feel god better than educated because of their innocence and hence their intelligence to feel god. You see we are also able to learn in young ages only because of the innocence when we are children. Afterwards we beccame learned people with ego replacing innocence. Hence our intelligence stop working in later ages. Anyway thank you very much for accepting some of my views since they go along with your views. That is wright. Expecting others to accept what I tell is the style of somebody you had exposed in lot of your postings. I am not a such man. yours, mksugumaran | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 179 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: 26 years LDS and never owned an LDS edition KJV - Hmmmmmmmm! - the RLDS copyrighted the Inspired KJV. Of couse excommunication details are not available to the public - privacy laws and common sense mean that they will never be. Thought I might check your sources and the accuracy of your reproduction - mainly cos I don't truct you as far as I could throw you, but also out of interest. I have not read through much of what you copy but I imagine it says just about the same as what I have said already - so what are you achieving is the question that comes to mind. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 436 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.4 |
I pray that mormons will check their church history, if only out of interest. I would not advise they take my word for it. I am a stranger to them. No more than I would take theirs, without investigation. If a person is arguing or discussing anything, and they are trying to show evidence to confirm what they say is truth, I would expect they would investigate thoroughly. I went to the LDS website to try and find mine and/or my families records, which the church is so thorough with. The only information about me was my current address. Nothing even about me bieng a member or my excommunication. Why do thay have my current address? When I typed in the city where I was married the first time in the church (Anchorage, which is only the largest city in Alaska), the site did not recognise even the city. It also did not recognise the city (Soldotna) I was married the second time (in the church), nor my late husband (who was born into the church) nor his parents, (who went to the temple), nor his siblings. I must not be using the site properly. Wouldn't excommunicaton details be available to the person who received the excommunication documentation? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 180 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Cool, I've never tried that, what's the web address? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: You say "If a person is arguing or discussing anything, and they are trying to show evidence to confirm what they say is truth, I would expect they would investigate thoroughly", yet you know that you do not do this yourself. I have seen you make such false claims as Mormons believing that Jesus was the product of actual sexual intercourse, when we believe no such thing. This is a simple example of what I call your hypocricy, encouraging others to do something you fail to do yourself. It is clear to anyone who knows a litle of the churches beliefs that you produce a mixture of truth, half truth and outright falsehoods, and rarely ever argue or discuss. It would be interesting to see you actually discuss or argue one point or doctrine until it is discussed out, rather than hop from one to another, with no logical link or connection. You attempted to make logic of what mk said, so I am sure you are more than capable of presenting a logical and reasoned presentation of what you understand LDS doctrine is on ONE POINT, and then back this up when argued against. Quoting someone else without indicating what you understand it to say is no more than quoting, without any indication you understand waht you quote. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 438 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.220 |
You say the RLDS copyrighted the inspired version, (the one Joseph Smith wrote?). The LDS church obviously are able to use portions, re:footnotes. Otherwise, what would be the point of putting footnotes for reference if the church members have nothing to reference it with? I did say the LDS church believes (or at least the leaders, whom I assume members believe, at least when they are not just speaking about their own opinions, according to you), that God had sex with Mary in order to concieve Jesus Christ. Since you called me a liar more than once about that, I thought it would be helpful to show (from your leaders writings, from your church documents, your church witness testimonies) that I am not lying. Would you have a discussion with someone who continually calls you a liar? I doubt it, unless you have been brainwashed.You have chosen, instead of showing written documentation to controvert what I have said, to attack me as a person, which is really stupid, as you know I am more than capable of having a reasonable discussion, according to what you wrote above. The problem with mormons and the church has always been, 'if we can't explain our doctrines and principles, make accusations against the person asking the questions'. The LDS has not learned or taught its members that truth will out. God is truth. You do not have God, but a lot of false prophets. And there is just no way to convince one person that I am wrong about that. Christians are in agreement that the LDS church is a cult......... Unlike you who make false accusations against me and do not answer MY quesions (like why YOU were excommunicated), which might be a good testimony of why you went back, you choose to blind yourself to evidence. Another thing you couldn't answer about was why you asked me 'where did you copy this from', if you knew all of this all along. If you did and all mormons do, why does the fact that there are thousands of people who went to your church, to your temple, left, and shared their experiences with others as a warning. Get used to it, buddy. It will never stop until the mormon church 'cleans it's house'. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 439 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.220 |
You would do well to take all of this information to your leaders, tell them you are confused, and ask them for the truth. If you wish to keep ignoring what is in front of you, and which would be very easy for you to verify, as a member of over 20 years, according to you, then you also lied albout having your own personal opinion and testimony. You are just miming what they have told you, and are a puppet for them, and not a man for God. If only one of the leaders of the church had said what they have, it might be considered unintentional as a teaching device, or coming from God. But numerous leaders in your church have stated the same, same, same blasphemous things. Are you going to tell us that you have never used your computer (lds websites) to check out the church library system which holds all the documentation anyone needs to find their ancestry or their own records in your church. PULEEZE! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 440 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.50.220 |
When any intelligent person sees pages and pages of documentation about any subject and it obviously contradicts what I had previously thought was true, I would be saying to myself, "Man, I really need to check this all out. My whole life and future are involved in this. I want to be as sure as I can be." | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 182 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: So far as I uderstand the copyright is of the Inspired version, ie.e the one that has the inspired corrections within the body of the text, thus putting them as footnotes is not in breach of the copyright. If you re read my postings, you will see that I have made it clear why I question your honesty - if as I believe you are selective with your honesty, then you have no one to blame if the lable of "liar" is applied to you but yourself. That is no reason to avoid proper discussion. Had you been totally honest from the beginning, then of course there would be no need to question your honesty. I do not need to give you written documentation of what I believe, and cannot as I have never written a book on it. I do not need someone elses testimony to state what I believe. I believe that I have more than adequately answered those direct questions you have posed, and with the answers you already knew I would give - so you know your statement above "The problem with mormons and the church has always been, 'if we can't explain our doctrines and principles, make accusations against the person asking the questions'" is just another attempt by you to deflect attention away from your consistent failure to provide any real evidence of what you say, in fact you say little of substance, just copy others words. And who appointed you as a spokesman for Christianity - I bet there are many on these threads that do not share your beliefs on many major points of doctrine, for example you and the Catholics disagree on big issues don't you? Only beacuse you cannot actually prove the LDS church wrong do you resort to attacks on minor points, then state that they are the most importnant and because of what YOU say is important we must be a cult. So cos my son does not like Pokemon he is not a real boy (in case you do not understand, that is an example of a childish schoolground comment that equates to those you make about the church) - yes that is how real your "cult" accusations are. You have never asked WHY I was excommunicated, just mocked the fact that I was - and YOU accuse me of not being Christian! - I only asked you about youre because you offered the information, I mnetioned it to show Franklin how rediculous his un thought out comments are. Whay I was excommunicated is not relevant, that I return to the Church through my own choice is. You said "Another thing you couldn't answer about was why you asked me 'where did you copy this from', if you knew all of this all along. If you did and all mormons do, why does the fact that there are thousands of people who went to your church, to your temple, left, and shared their experiences with others as a warning. Get used to it, buddy. It will never stop until the mormon church 'cleans it's house'" - what are you going on about, the question was rhetorical, simply to point out that you do not seem capable of constructing in your own words anything that actually proves a point against the church, as I have said a few times before, copying others words means nothing if you do not explain WHY you are copying them!! GC, the only thing that is in fomnt of me and confusing is why you tink the things you are saying will have any effect on anyone, let alone me - your ego is become very puffed up!!! Come on, just give us all the site you found out YOUR OWN information on, what you now say seems to relate to the IGI, which only has details of DEAD PEOPLE on it - are you communicating for the other side?? Nothing you have said has contradicted me, don't you get it? - yet you continualy show yourself to be unreliable - you say above "I did say the LDS church believes (or at least the leaders, whom I assume members believe, at least when they are not just speaking about their own opinions, according to you), that God had sex with Mary in order to concieve Jesus Christ. Since you called me a liar more than once about that, I thought it would be helpful to show (from your leaders writings, from your church documents, your church witness testimonies) that I am not lying" - where? - if you have done this previously, it has been lost amongst all the other bits of stuff you have posted - excuse me, but can you post it againt, on its own and in a context? And whan a person who wants an excuse to deny the truth, they accept any false doctrine as a reason to run away from it - that I believe is what you did, not an attack, but what I honestly believe form your postings and the way you write that you did. You see others actually make statements of false doctrine such as Franklin, yet choose to overlook this another reason to question your honesty, don't you see? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 447 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.38 |
If you choose to believe I have lied about my personal life, and you refuse to believe your leaders, (who I copied in context, not adding to), then there is no hope for you. There should be no reason for you to continue to respond at all. I do not expect everyone or anyone, for that matter, to agree with my personal opinions and beliefs. If I am moved to post that should not affect you at all, because (putting myself in your place)I would just ignore what I consider to be lies. I am not speaking for anyone else, but I will speak to what God has given me. If whether lucifer led the music in heaven affects the doctines of the Bible, can you share with us how? I don't see that it does. I don't think it matters whther he did or not. The point is he is a fallen angel, satan. If you are stupid enough to use that as an example of 'Franklin's false doctrines', then you are reaching for any little insignificant words to exclude his overall understanding of a diciple of Christ. And this is from you, who said what a prophet teaches his congregation, shouldn't be accepted than anything other than his own thinking. Do not question what I see. I see quite clearly. You are the one who is blinded by the power of Satan. You said in a much earlier post (and I won't quote word for word because I don't have the time or inclination) that you are not controlled by the lds church, that you can decide for yourself). It is so apparent that this is not true, if we are to believe what you have stated since then. The church has control over you, and that is a definite sign of brainwashing. If you want to make flimsy excuses for your leaders (past and present)and I am speaking of lds prophets and presidents, council of the twelve, etc., go ahead. No one will try to stop you. I certainly don't claim that power and never have. I think people will begin to take you seriously when you answer to the doctrines of your church, if you think I am lying about them. This forum is not about my personal stand or yours, it is about the lds church. Which reminds me: a staunch supporter and member of the lds church denied that any of it's leaders or even members are paid. That is shown to be false. I have found at least two documents showing the assistants to the twelve were/are paid in order for them to work fulltime for the church. There is also documents stating the President, or the Prophet, is also paid if he is unable to support himself. I WOULD CONSIDER THIS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE AS THE CHURCH USES THE IDEA OF 'PREACHERS' BEING PAID AS A CUSTOM ONLY OF PROTESTANT AND NONMORMON CHURCHES, AS IF THAT MAKES THEM MORE WORTHY. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 448 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.38 |
In addition, when the church was building all its buildings around the world, members were/are expected to give their time, labor, and money, lands, assets, to the church over and above tithings and offerings.This, in fact, was one reason two of the original twelve apostles left the mormon church. They weren't about to give everything they owned to this organization. And who can blame them. The Holy Bible teaches that the Tithes required of old testament jews was part of Christ's fulfillment of the law. He teaches LOVE. In the kjv love is defined as CHARITY, not the building of churches and temples. Christ sent to us the Holy Spirit to live in us, which makes our bodies a temple, a tabernacle. When two or more are gathered in his name, there he is also. He also tells us 'not to build up things on the earth that can be destroyed.' The mormon temple during joseph smith's time was destroyed by fire. This is a good example of what Christ says NOT to do. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 449 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.38 |
The mormon church 'destroys' documents all the time, in an effort to 'cover up' what their past leaders said. This has caused a whole lot of confusion for the members. (Another example) In fact, it caused so much confusion in the church after Joseph Smith died, that some of it's highest members left that part of the membership and started their own, which is called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This portion of the original church follow all of the original churches doctrines which includes: plural marriage, blood atonement and all the other atrocious commandments of the original Prophet who their church was inspired by. The only reason the lds church does not follow those teachings by js and bj and other leaders is that they realize society would no longer put up with it. They chose to 'please men' and to give up what their leaders said was given to them directly from God. And yes, there is a lot of documentation of what I have just said, which I will copy to this thread if anyone does not believe me. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 450 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.38 |
Joesdad stated that the footnotes are allowed by copywrite law and that is his explanation, I would guess, for why the members do not use all of it instead of the kjv (which they insist is so corrupted that it is not to be believed), which they do use. If this is the reasoning, then why does the church have the whole copy in it's possession? Is it just a momento? Seems ludicrous, doesn't it. That a church who claims to have the only living prophets does not give its members the 'inspired version' to its members because of the lame excuse joesdad gave! This could also be considered brainwashing, but as one of their leaders said, "the membership has accepted the church's changes quite easily." Wasn't that nice for the leadership. The blind leading the blind in the extreme. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 183 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: What a blundering load of rubbish - little of the above makes sense if you read it again, and once again you show how you choose to read into things what you want them to say. e.g."You said in a much earlier post (and I won't quote word for word because I don't have the time or inclination) that you are not controlled by the lds church, that you can decide for yourself). It is so apparent that this is not true, if we are to believe what you have stated since then. The church has control over you, and that is a definite sign of brainwashing. If you want to make flimsy excuses for your leaders (past and present)and I am speaking of lds prophets and presidents, council of the twelve, etc., go ahead. No one will try to stop you. I certainly don't claim that power and never have." GC: you find the time to quote from books, but don't quote me because you know you can't find anything to support what you say about me - what a lame try! See, you refuse to pick one point for a discussion, but prefer the method of throwing so much mud, and hoping some will stick, and when it does not - LIE! - funny thing is, it looks as though I'm the only one listening  how frustrating that must be!! You obviously have no idea what the words copyright law mean, hence your rediculous blathering in your last post. You make yourself look a fool by commenting on things you have no understanding of - a big problem with you in much of what you say. As you obviously have no idea what the RLDS believe, I understand they have renounced much of the LDS doctrine they believed in so they could get outside funding from Church groups - they are more like a born again christian group now.(I amdit I have not researched this point, but understand what I say to be pretty much accurate). As I said, I believe you are able to take part in locical debate, but fear doing so because your agruements are so weak. It takes no genius to twist and confuse others statements. I note that you avoid my question for the website to look at MY details on the lds website, and instead lose this amongst a lot of meaningless verbiage - Important, because if I can I would like to know how, if I can't then you are lying -please prove yourself with this one simple request. Just as Franklins mucical Satan shows your true colours, i.e. you refuse to condemn THAT false doctrine only because it has been exposed a such by a Mormon - you blind yourself from the truth with the red mist of frustration. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 456 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.52.195 |
I am not the one who is frustrated, you poor man. | ||
| bee (bee) Member Username: bee Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.63.255.232 |
Joesdad, I am listening. Amazing Godschild's patience with you. With all due respect what truth has she blinded herself from? Do you think she needs the Mormon's to find her way to heaven? All she needs is Jesus. People not able to share temple rituals, I say Jesus would not do the same & would not keep secrets from other believers. Possibly your subconscience is calling you out of what you know in your heart to be false doctrine. Possibly hard to justify Revelations there with the book of Mormon, more so because it tells us not to add or take away from the Word. God's big enough to give you your Paul on the road moment. He too thought he was doing so right by God. Why not loose the religion you seem to cling to & cling to Jesus & practice pure & faultless religion - James 1:27 God must have a great purpose for you with as much time as Godschild has given you. God Bless & lead You. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
Bee: Listening?, can you make sense of it? do you agree? will you raise your flag with hers? No, the truth she is blinding herself from is principally that she is falsly stating LDS doctrine, knowing she does so, and that that is not acceptable, as I believe a basic principle of Chritianity is honesty. Bee - read Revelations again, it DOES NOT refer to the Bible, but just that book. Sorry, but that is one of the typically naive quotes made by those who do not know their scriptures, but try to prove Mormonism wrong from them. You fool yourself into thinking GC has any interest in exposing hidden LDS teachings, or whatever it is you think she does. She is simply attemting to attack an organisation she failed to remain faithful to. Do you know the dirfference between something that is secret, and that which is sacred? You must be joking to think GC has been sent by God !!!!!!! | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 186 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
Do you notice that GC's principal method of deflecting questions of her honesty and failure to use real facts is to "name call" - why am I a poor man? - because I do not quietly sit by and allow your rediculous claims to go unanswered? She constantly side steps direct questions that relate to her claims, there is only one reason that I can see for this, she knows and knew at the time of making those claims that there was not a shred of truth in them - Bee - just because someone sounds as though they are on the same side as you, remember that Eve fell into that selfsame trap, and look at the consequences for her! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 467 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.179 |
Eve fell into that selfsame trap. Let's see what the mormons teach about Adam and Eve: Gospel Principles: page 33 Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression Some people believe Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However,latter-day scriptures help us understand that their fall was a NECESSARY STEP in the plan of life and A GREAT BLESSING to all of us. Because of the Fall, we are blessed with physical bodies, the right to choose between good and evil, and the opportunity to gain eternal life. None of these privileges would have been our had Adam and Eve remained in the garden. After the fall, Eve said, "Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed (children), and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which god giveth unto all the obedient" (Moses 5:11) The prophet Lehi explained: "And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen (been cut off from the presence of God), but he would have remained in the Garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after htey were created;... 'And they would have had no children; therefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good; for they knew no sin. "But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of himn who knoweth all things. "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy" (2 Niphi 2:22-25). On the page previous, (pg 31)Gospel Principles says: ADAM AND EVE WERE VALIANT SPIRITS Although the scriptures do not tell us anything about Eve before she came to earth, she must have been a choice daughter of God. She was called Eve because she was the mother of all living (see Moses 4:46). That puts me in high esteem, in Joesdad's estimation.) Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahiccup...Oh stop! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 468 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.179 |
And let's not forget Adam: Gospel Principles: pg. 31 Adam and Eve were among our Father's noblest children. In the spirit world Adam was called Michael the Archangel (see D&C 27:11) Adam and Eve were foreordained to become the parents of the human race. High praise for me indeed, Joesdad! Hichahahahah | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 469 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.179 |
I can hear Joesdad's response. "You know what I meant, you evil woman. Shame on you." Makes a lot of sense, doesn't he. I can imagine even Satan wringing his tail and saying, "shut up, stupid Joesdad." | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 189 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
So What is wrong with these quotes? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 484 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.63.45 |
Joesdad, did you ever go to another church besides lds? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 190 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
I've been to loads - so whats wrong with what you have quoted? Where is that web address? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 491 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.56 |
What web address? You don't believe I have a copy of the 'Gospel Principles'? Which is a book published by the lds church. Sigh, the introduction (pg 1), (please get out your copy and read along): Gospel Principles was written both as a personal study guide and as a teahcer's manual. Therefore, you can usee this manual in many ways. It can help you- *Build your knowledge and testimony of the gospel. *Answer questions about the gospel. *Study scriptures by topics. *Prepare talks. *Prepare lessons for family home evenings. *Prepare lessons for Church meetings. The book then goes on to tell how to use the book. I would like to quote one paragraph which causes nonmormons wonder why mormons defend their prophets, and then excuse their words and actions. It has been said that mormons are allowed to have thieir own opinion. Here is what "Gospel Principles" says about that: Obtain divine knowledge and spirtual guidance through careful study, prayerful preparation, and righteous living. Never speculate about Church doctrine. Teach only what is supported by the scriptrues and the Holy Spirit. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 199 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.252.64.33 |
GC: short memory you have! The LDS site you claim to have found details of your current address, etc. on. This is the FOUTH time I have asked you for it. It is becoming more and more clear that you are struggling to understand waht you are reading, both in my postings and in the church meaterials you quote from. May I suggest you get a better understanding of LDS doctrine, and what you actually think is wrong with it before posting about it - though ignorance may be bliss for you, it does not help when you write about things you have yet to understand. For example, your mocking the church for not using the Inpired version of the KJV rather than using footnotes only proves that you will not acknowledge anything outside your predetermined opinion of the truth, whether that makes what you say nonsense. The laws of the USA prevent us, not our individual choice. Your failure to aknowledge that Franklins doctrine about the Devil has no basis, but rather ignore it, again shows how selective you are with the truth. You do not support Bee's arguement regarding the Book of Revelations because you know it is incorrect, but fail to say so. I have challenged you to provide evidence that the historical basis of the Book of Mormon's contents is false and does not accord with recognised historical facts regarding Central and Northern America. If fact all I see from you are accusations that could be repeated from any site opposing church's teachings, and nothing original from you. I am amused at the italicised words in the last sentence you quote, and suggect you apply them to yourself! When you are asked to provide details behind the accusations you make, you ignore this and move on to the next accusation - this is pure and simple smear tactics, not a spiritually inspired refuatation of false doctrine. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 495 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.56 |
I think I speak for many christians when we ask you to give us a spiritually inspired statement: why and how do you know the LDS church is the true church? You claim to know of sites on the web about evidence against your church, and yet you cannot find the simplest site about your records? This does not make sense to me. I am not here to challenge Bee's interpretations. I do not claim all knowledge about Revelations or any other book of the Holy Bible. What I know from Bee's comments is that she believes in one God, acknowledges him, trusts and loves him. That is all I need to know. If ANYONE says there is more than one God and that they can become God, that is when challenge is appropriate. I do apply scripture to my life the best I am able. Your comment is ludicrous because my Holy Bible does not teach false doctrine, so cannot join to yours which is. There is no contradiction in the books of the Bible. LDS books are full of them, and therefore are not holy scripture. If anyone with a sincere desire to further understand the Holy Bible, I will offer the answers if I can by using the Holy Bible. You, on the other hand are only here to stop me, not to show that what you believe is truth. (To deny that would be foolish as anyone reading your responses to my posts will show what I say to be true.) Repeating that I am a liar, ignorant, selfrighteous, etc. will not change the facts about your church's false teachings. | ||
| bee (bee) Member Username: bee Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.63.230.253 |
Hi Godchild & Joesdad, I asked my husband yesterday what he thought about the instructions given in Revelations, he said it is instruction for the Bible, that from beginning to end it is a complete book & must be read that way. Also that the statement is to protect all of God's Word & not to be taken from or added to. He is over me as my lead so I continue to follow this as the Word instructs me. Godchild, Maybe Joesdad needs to be convicted of this from God alone. Seems he is convinced at this point, but I also know God is leading you if you feel more needs to be said. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 501 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.143 |
Bee, your point was well taken. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 201 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Love the side step - of course there is no such site - you cannot substantiate this LIE and therefore attack me rather than admit your dishonesty - a fantastic Christian trait!!!! GC, you know that your posts are full of false accounts, false statements and other falsehoods that are created by you personally - therefore the label of LIAR is not an insult, but a recognition of your achievements. GC how can you offer answers to honest enquiries when you cannot be honest in what you say, what good will it do anyone that reads what you say when it is full of lies??? How can THAT get them any closer to God??? How foolish they will look when they attempt to rely on what you say. Again, you fail to accept ANY of my challenges, which I consider to be your acceptance that you cannot rather than choose not to - and WHY, because you are well aware that you do not have a foot to stand on - and instead provide another string of insults - at me, my church and what we believe - once again a very constructive discourse with you. In reality, I have provided far more detail of true LDS doctrine, and in context, than you have - so what I say is not always directed at you but also at the rubbish you produce. It is a joke to think that you actually claim to know about the LDS faith - and that you claim to be a Christian. Sorry Bee, at the judgement seat you will be asked to account for YOURSELF, not your husband for you. Please read what John said, he said "this book of revelation", not "this book" - I believe you accept that there is only one Book of revelation contained in the Bible? - rather than trying to get your answers to fit what you have been told - read the scripture and realise what it actually says - GC will not correct you in this way, and would accept any false doctrine if stated by someone attacking the LDS church - re read her posts and you will see this. All I ask of you is to find out for yourself, and not rely on others, especially those you have never met such as GC who I assure you is far from honest or truthful in what she says - she may appear friendly and sincere to you, but my previous comment on the way she seeks to ensnare the unsuspecting reader as did Lucifer still stands - she is dangerous, not to the LDS church - but to those who believe in her twisted accounts of LDS doctrine, and her claims - which again as will be seen from what she has posted cannot be backed up whan she is asked to do so. Bee, by there fruits ye shall know them - what fruits can you see from GC that convince you that if SHE feels more needs to be said you can support her? - are you not leaning on the arm of flesh at least a little - why do you think GC has any greater knowledge than you? (you talk as though you think this!). Where does this presumption that EVERYTHING that I say is wrong come from? You have done little more than massaged GC's ego!! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 505 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.95 |
All one has to do is google 'family tree' and follow the links. This is not about my ego. You were asked a simple request: to share your reason for believing the lds church is true. Instead, you confirm my earlier post about name-calling. What is the problem with leaning on the arm of flesh, as you call it. Christians support each other, that is why we are so strong. Don't ask me or Bee, ask God!!!! I am sad that you cannot see beyond 'YOURSELF'. This is evident where you say "where does this presumption that EVERYTHING that I say is wrong come from? Again I say, Ask God!!!! We are praying for you. And God is listening! If I were you I would be saying Thank-You, to him. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 506 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.95 |
Joesdad, you have tried to turn this into a competition between you and me. This is not a competition. This is a place to share our beliefs about whether a denomination is a cult or not. When I was first attacked, (called a liar) here, of course I was offended. I prayed about it day after day. I thought perhaps I was supposed to stop sharing what I know. But a calm began to come over me and has stayed with me. I believe it will to the end, as God wills. What I am trying to tell you is your personal attacks have the opposite effect than you hoped for. You call me self-righteous. You do not know the discussions I have with God. I always wonder if what I say and do has a negative effect, because I am fully aware that I am only human, there is no power in me; EXCEPT his spirit in me. You seem to acknowledge this power and yet are afraid to reach out for it yourself. It only shows that you (deep down) are aware you can NEVER become a god, and it has to be a hard realization for one who has believed it for so many years. You have been surrounded by people who say "yes, yes, you are right, they are wrong". Can you truly say it is working for you? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 507 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.95 |
Joesdad, you have tried to turn this into a competition between you and me. This is not a competition. This is a place to share our beliefs about whether a denomination is a cult or not. When I was first attacked, (called a liar) here, of course I was offended. I prayed about it day after day. I thought perhaps I was supposed to stop sharing what I know. But a calm began to come over me and has stayed with me. I believe it will to the end, as God wills. What I am trying to tell you is your personal attacks have the opposite effect than you hoped for. You call me self-righteous. You do not know the discussions I have with God. I always wonder if what I say and do has a negative effect, because I am fully aware that I am only human, there is no power in me; EXCEPT his spirit in me. You seem to acknowledge this power and yet are afraid to reach out for it yourself. It only shows that you (deep down) are aware you can NEVER become a god, and it has to be a hard realization for one who has believed it for so many years. You have been surrounded by people who say "yes, yes, you are right, they are wrong". Can you truly say it is working for you? | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
gc: The page is not forthcoming: because it does not exist! Leaning on the arm of flesh, or in other words taking mans word ahead of Gods will only bring misery to the one doing so. Bee will find no light or truth in the falsehoods you post. Who said anything about a competition, it is about the truth - something you find impossible to stick to. You do not share what you KNOW - you say what you want others to believe - no way are these the same things. You make presumptions about my relationship with God, not from anything you have found out about me, but from your own biased, and incorrect vew of the LDS faith - because you say someting does not make it true. Far from the Yes, Yes culture you claim exists - get your facts right. In reality, I know that you find that your ideas about the LDS faith are wrong, and this leaves an empty space in you beacuse the hate and bitterness you have built up, convinced that you are right are not finding an audience, nor are they proven correct - and the hole is increasing in size. So I suppose you think the more bitter and false accusations you make, the more the hole is filled up. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 515 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.52 |
Joesdad, you remind me of the mother in this little story, "But Mom, I don't like going around in circles!" Mom, "shut up or I'll nail your other foot to the floor." I am thankful to say that I stopped being that 'little child' a long time ago. On the other hand, you are living like the mother. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 516 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.52 |
Or you are the 'little child' who is trapped by your 'mother' church. Either way, you are misled by your own choice. I did not come onto this post to talk to joesdad. What I want to share is something that happened to my daughter yesterday. Her last name and mine are the same. I wrote here that I lived in Anchorage, Alaska and other cities in that state. It was quite a coincidence that she had a visit from two young men, missionaries from the mormon church. I want to mention neither my daughters nor I have ever been visited by missionaries from that church since we left it in the 80's. Anyway, they spent their whole time with her asking her questions and not trying to convert her. She had the chance to witness to two young men about her christianity. Halleluia! She had questions for them but they countered with more questions. You see, the Bible teaches, "rebuke the devil, and he will flee from you". I am not saying these young men were devils. I am saying they are led by his teachings, and could not answer a christian. What you might notice, mormons do not give their testimony, they only give mormon doctrines as their evidence of faith. The only testimony they have is a "I believe the lds church to be the only true church", "I believe the lds church to be the only true church". Doesn't this sound robotic? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 534 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.1 |
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