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Message |
    
yahshua (yahshua)
New member
Username: yahshua
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 207.44.154.35
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 2:42 am: | 
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Such false ministers as this, I say are those spoken of in by the prophet Jeremias...
Jer. 6:10 To whom shall I speak and give warning,
That they may hear?
Indeed their ear is uncircumcised,
And they cannot give heed.
Behold, the word of the LORD is a reproach to them;
They have no delight in it.
Jer. 6:11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD.
I am weary of holding it in.
“I will pour it out on the children outside,
And on the assembly of young men together;
For even the husband shall be taken with the wife,
The aged with him who is full of days.
Jer. 6:12 And their houses shall be turned over to others,
Fields and wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land,” says the LORD.
Jer. 6:13 “Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
Jer. 6:14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly,
Saying, “Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace.
Jer. 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed;
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the LORD.
Jer. 6:16 ¶ Thus says the LORD:
“Stand in the ways and see,
And ask for the old paths, where the good way is,
And walk in it;
Then you will find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it,
Then you will find rest for your souls.
My old Way is on the earth again;
Peace and healing can be found there,
My Abba sets the lonely in families,
He heals the brokenhearted and weary ones.
As my People of old were one in mind and heart,
and walked in one Way, together with me, sharing all things with one another, and also sharing in my suffering together with me,
so is it once more with my holy ones that I am raising up.
He who hears them, hears Me; and He who hears Me, hears Him who sent Me.
He who rejects them, rejects Me; and He who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me.
The Way to My Way can be found at www.TheLitmusTest.org |
solopilot (solopilot)
Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 93
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.190.204.218
| | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 10:43 am: |
|
Another Protestant with delusions of grandeur is heard from . . .over and over and over . . .
I reject this false Jesus. |
godchild (godchild)
New member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.234
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 2:46 am: |
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Solopilot, Would you tell us about your Jesus? |
cindig2 (cindig2)
New member
Username: cindig2
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 216.63.55.159
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:15 am: |
|
I thought the Litmus test was very good. I ran it off to give my boys. |
eightyeight (eightyeight)
Junior Member
Username: eightyeight
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.142.27.133
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 12:06 am: |
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Does Western School of Ministries have anything to do with LDS?
One just poped up in our neighborhood and I didn't
know what it was. |
psalm5613 (psalm5613)
New member
Username: psalm5613
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 192.83.111.72
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:03 am: |
|
“We have indoctrinated thousands of those who follow after the Watchtower Society that their unscholarly and distorted New World Translation is truly of God. We have actively promoted other texts as being equal to or even greater in importance than Yahweh’s book. Books such as Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, and the Book of Mormon are two that come to mind.
“Oh, and by the way, both of those books were co-authored by Nakal, the lead seraphim of my southern army. Nakal has played some pivotal roles in the establishment of heretical and apostate groups and cults. It was the demon general Nakal that appeared before Emanuel Swedenborg in 1745 claiming to be God, and telling Emanuel that all truth would come through him. It was Nakal that spoke to Herbert W. Armstrong telling him that the truth would come through him. It was Nakal that guided Charles Taze Russell in the establishment of the Watchtower organization. It was Nakal that appeared to Sun Myung Moon as Jesus on a mountain in Korea in 1935 telling him that God would finish establishing his kingdom through him. It was Nakal that convinced Mary Baker Eddy that she was the woman of Revelation, chapter twelve, who would unlock the mysteries of the dark book of the Bible. It was Nakal that delivered the Qur’an to Muhammad posing as the holy angel Gabriel. It was Nakal that posed as God the Father, and his associate, Pathah, who posed as Jesus. They both stood before the young Joseph Smith, telling him that all the churches were apostate and that the true church would be established through him. Nakal is quite an actor, is he not?”
From "Interview with Lucifer" by Rollin Miller
www.interviewwithlucifer.com |
stephen (stephen)
Junior Member
Username: stephen
Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 63.27.24.235
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 12:47 am: |
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read article below for more information.
www.trinityfi.org/
=================================================
Religious Abuse or Fraud
Preliminary Questionnaire
If you wish to provide a completely anonymous tip, please click here.
The following abuse questionnaire will provide us your contact information and some additional information which will help combat a growing problem of religious fraud from televangelists or fake religious investment schemes. You have entered a confidential, secured site. Your answers will be kept confidential and are password protected from outside and inside the Trinity Foundation. Questionnaires will be kept confidential unless otherwise directed by you. The only mandatory information required in the process of filling out this form is your contact information; however, the more information you give us, the more it will help us with ongoing investigations and possible future changes to laws governing the airwaves and financial transactions. In case of difficulty filling out this form, you may as a last resort, email the Trinity Foundation at abuse@trinityfi.org or call toll free 1-800-229-8428 and leave a message. The submission of this questionnaire will generate an automatic email response letting you know we received it and will be followed up by a phone call, usually within a few days, but possibly up to a week after completing the form.
We cannot investigate all persons or organizations listed as the perpetrators of the abuse described within these questionnaires.
CONFIDENTIAL
March 8, 2005, 1:38 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ministry or Person Being Reported:
Where is the ministry or person located? Please be as specific as possible.
Your Name
First Name:
Last Name:
Address1:
Address2:
City:
Province / State:
Country:
Postal / Zip:
Phone: () example: (306) 555-1212
Victim Information
First Name of victim if other than yourself:
Last Name of victim if other than yourself:
Relationship of the victim to you:
Address1:
Address2:
City:
Province / State:
Country:
Postal / Zip:
Phone: () example: (306) 555-1212
Age of Victim:
Sex of Victim: Male Female
Convenient Time to Call:
Please summarize your story:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. When did you first have contact with the ministry or person (best guess is OK) ?
2. What attracted or appealed to you?
3. What was your need or emotional condition at the time?
4. Is this ministry or person presently on the air? Yes No
5. When and where did you last see, hear, or attend the program, seminar, crusade, etc.?
6. a) When did you last contact this ministry or person?
b) When did they last contact you?
c) Have you kept your letters, requests, or written answers to your prayers or any records of correspondence to you from the ministry or person?
Yes No
d) If yes, would you provide us copies or allow us to copy and return the originals?
Yes No
7. a) Did they make a specific promise that was not fulfilled?
Yes No
b) If yes, what promise did they make?
c) If Yes, was this promise made to you in a broadcast, in printed material or in person? Please choose.. a broadcast printed material in person
d) If by broadcast, on what program did they make this promise? If possible, include the date, time and channel it was aired on.
e) If by printed material, do you still have a copy of it?
Yes No
f) If by broadcast, do you have a recording of it?
Yes No
8. a) What is the approximate value of the money/property you donated/invested to this ministry/person?
b) Can you verify and have you kept records of this?
Yes No
c) If necessary, would you furnish us copies of your cancelled checks or money order receipts that you donated/invested to this ministry/person?
Yes No
9. a) Did you make this donation/investment upon reliance of their specific promise?
Yes No
b) Did they tell you that you had to make this donation/investment in order for them to fulfill their promise to you?
Yes No
c) Did you believe that you had to make the donation/investment in order for them to fulfill their promise to you?
Yes No
d) Were you told or made to feel that if you Did Not donate/invest, you would fall out of God's favor?
Yes No
10. a) Would you release to us your annual income?
Yes No
b) If so, what was your annual income at the time this happened?
c) What is your most recent annual income?
11. a) Have you ever received any type of welfare?
Yes No
b) If so, what type?
c) For how long?
d) How much?
12. How has this experience affected your faith?
13. a) Do you think that this ministry/person is doing some good?
Yes No
b) In what way or ways?
14. Would you support more public accountability of ministries/persons like this?
Yes No
15. a) Would you be willing to join a civil suit against this organization/person in which you might or might Not receive compensation for the alleged damage that was done to you? Yes No
b) If Yes, do you understand that by joining such a suit you will probably be asked to testify in open court or by deposition and that your name could be in the paper or on the news? Yes No
16. Do you intend to or have you taken any legal action? Yes No
17. From time to time we are contacted by members of the media looking for names of people who are victims. May we have your permission to give them your name? Yes No
18. a) Do you know of anyone else that has been injured that might want to talk to us? Yes No
b) If so would you furnish them our contact information?
Yes No
19. Would you be willing to write a letter to the legal authorities about your experience with or concerns about this ministry/person? Yes No
20. a) Have you ever been employed by the ministry/person being Reported? Yes No
b) What was your title?
c) What was your job?
d) Who was your immediate supervisor?
e) At which location?
f) What was your salary?
g) What time period did you work for this ministry/person?
From to
21. Why did you leave?
22. Any other remarks?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have reviewed my answers and comments above and state that they are true to the best of my knowledge and remembrance." Yes No |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 399
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.62.126
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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Yaakov, According to my topic page, you were the last one to post here and yet I see no post from you. If I can ask one question while here; do you believe all of us should join Judaism for our salvation? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 407
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.245
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 1:41 am: |
|
If the mormon church is really a restoration of true Christianity, why doesn't it emulate the apostolic emphasis of the New Testament? No New Testament author claims Gethsemane had anything to do with the atonement. Instead we find numerous references made to the cross and Christ's death. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 408
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.245
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 1:43 am: |
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What exactly did Christ's suffering and death on the cross accomplish?
Romans 5:9 - The shedding of His blood on the cross makes being justified before an all-holy God a present reality. No longer must we wonder if we will ever be 'good enough'. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 409
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.245
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 1:51 am: |
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Galatians 6:14, Paul certainly didn't seem to share the hesitancy ("But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.") as Pres, Gordon Hinckley, "For us, the cross is a symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ." |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 412
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.245
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 2:05 am: |
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In case anyone doesn't notice, the last two threads I started on the 16th and 17th have been placed at the bottom of the mormon church thread.
Looks like I might be asked to move on. In case I do, God bless and keep all of you. A sister in Christ, Vivian |
yaakov (yaakov)
Intermediate Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 496
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.148.234.6
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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godchild
Yaakov, According to my topic page, you were the last one to post here and yet I see no post from you. If I can ask one question while here; do you believe all of us should join Judaism for our salvation?
No.
First, Hell (or a place of eternal torment) does NOT exist.
Second, almost everyone will get to Heaven eventually, no matter their religious beliefs. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 421
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 3:20 pm: |
|
Thank you Yaakov, When you say everyone will get to Heaven EVENTUALLY, no matter our religious beliefs, does this mean we will go towards this goal in this lifetime, or at another time/place?
I am wondering because many people believe if they are moral people, they are fine. Is this what you believe? Do we need even to believe in God or any higher power? |
egk (egk)
Intermediate Member
Username: egk
Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.223.135.125
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
|
Godchild,
At least twice you said that Mormon authorities are forbiddidng Mormons from posting on the web, etc. Can you document this? (The absence of Joesdad and Soliopilot are interesting.)
EGK |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 423
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.218
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 7:18 pm: |
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egk, I am busy this afternoon. I am pretty sure of where I read this. It was in an article from a newspaper on the internet. Might take me a little time as there are so many I have found. I don't think I have said they are forbidden to post on the web. I believe I said the church is telling all branches and lds sites to desist pull their sites) until they are approved by the church. |
yaakov (yaakov)
Advanced Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 503
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.148.234.6
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 9:39 am: |
|
godchild
Thank you Yaakov, When you say everyone will get to Heaven EVENTUALLY, no matter our religious beliefs, does this mean we will go towards this goal in this lifetime, or at another time/place? I am wondering because many people believe if they are moral people, they are fine. Is this what you believe? Do we need even to believe in God or any higher power?
Those are very good questions, Godchild. And since they are such good questions, a person can spend a lifetime answering them. I will briefly answer according to my core beliefs and religious philosophy.
Judaism holds that our life on Earth is much more important than our life-after-life in Heaven. It is on Earth that we exercise our God-given freewill. We make choices to improve ourselves or to debase ourselves. God gave us a set of instructions, the Torah, which tells us what choices are the good ones and what choices are the bad ones. God wants what is best for us and has given us freewill. When we deviate from God’s instructions, we may derive temporary pleasure, but we ultimately debase ourselves. When we follow God’s clearly laid out instructions in the Torah, we maximize our pleasure on God’s Earth. We feel good about ourselves, we improve ourselves, and we help to finish the act of creation.
We believe that God purposefully left the act of Creation unfinished. He wants all of us humans to complete it. We are each made in God’s image (that is, we each possess a divine “spark”) so that we are each able to do this. Animals don’t have this divine spark, so they can only exist within Creation. Humans have a divine spark so we can help to finish the Creation. It is said that when we finish the Creation and remake the world into what it should be from what it is, that the Messiah will appear.
Since it is by our actions that we follow God’s instructions, then it is our actions that are more important than our beliefs. If a person is charitable, seeks justice, and bestows compassion, then it doesn’t really matter which God, if any, that they believe.
Man’s ethical codes and norms change from society to society. They are ever in flux depending on a host of factors. God is eternal and never changes. Thus, God’s Laws never change and provide a fixed road map to improving our world and ourselves. Some Christians say that God’s rules were a strait jacket and were properly abolished when their deity appeared. We say, “Feh!” God’s Laws are liberating and a delight. They are Eternal and can not be abolished, no matter what any human may say. We know exactly what to do and how to act to be Godly and emulate God.
When I say that we will get to Heaven eventually, that one word sums about my beliefs on the matter. First, there are two destinations in the afterlife, Sheol and Heaven. Sheol is a temporary destination, while Heaven is a permanent destination. When a person dies, the destination of their soul depends on the choices they made during their lives. Sheol is a place of cleansing the soul. A soul can spend a maximum of one year there. After the cleansing is complete, the soul goes to Heaven. If a person lived like a tzaddik, their soul will go straight to Heaven when they die. (Tzaddik is a tough word to translate since I’m not aware of a Christian/English equivalent. It roughly means a very righteous person, not a perfect person.) Most people will spend a couple of months in Sheol and then go on to Heaven. There is a sizeable minority position in Judaism, that a few souls are so completely black with evil that they, …um…disintegrate in Sheol and never go on to Heaven. They think that people like Chmelnitzki or Hitler can’t be in Heaven.
Second, we don’t performs mitzvahs (good deeds) as rewards to get to Heaven. A famous rabbi once said “The reward for doing a mitzvah is the opportunity to do another mitzvah.” We perform mitzvahs so that we are conditioned to perform more mitzvahs. Each time we do a good act, it enables us and ennobles us to do another good act. Similarly, doing a bad act leads to doing another bad act. If we set ourselves to do mitzvahs, it becomes easier and easier to do the right things. By doing the right things, we enrich ourselves and do our part to complete the act of Creation. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 438
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.6
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
|
yaakov, you are very generous to share. I will give what you have said a GREAT deal of thought and contemplation.
Does everyone have the Holy Spirit, by rite of being born on earth? |
yaakov (yaakov)
Advanced Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 505
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.148.234.6
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:04 pm: |
|
godchild
yaakov, you are very generous to share. I will give what you have said a GREAT deal of thought and contemplation.
Your welcome.
Does everyone have the Holy Spirit, by rite of being born on earth?
Our terminology differs. I know that when Christian say “Holy Spirit”, they are referring to another God or quasi-God like entity. It means something completely different in Judaism.
When God breathed into man, I suppose you could call that breath, a holy spirit. But, it is not a separate entity from God. The Torah tells us that we are all made in God’s image. However, since God does not have a form, shape, or face, we know that we don’t actually physically look like God. The Torah actually means that our souls are made in God’s image. Each of us upon being born gains awareness through this “breath” from God. In Judaism, it is referred to as a “Divine Spark”. So, when each person is born, they receive a Divine Spark from God. So each of us, at our core, were created (or born) good.
When we die, this Divine Spark goes to the life-after-life. Our body becomes an empty shell. It still is treated respectfully since it once housed the Divine Spark, so proper burial rituals are followed. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 444
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.62.117
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 3:48 pm: |
|
. I don't think we 'actually' look like God, as in physical appearance, because God is a spirit. If I am correct, spirits are invisible. And I am a woman. There is no man who is going to say God looks like me. I do believe God, the spirit, became God, the man, as a sacrifice for our sin. When I speak of the Holy Spirit, I speak of that part of God, not another god. I don't think we can truly know all about God. His ways aren't our ways. I don't think we can comprehend perfection, therefore we cannot see it, and so cannot see God.
Do you agree that the Torah speaks in analogys? The same is for the New Testament.
Shoot. Now we will have to discuss male and human. (Maybe no one will bring THAT up). |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 458
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.30
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:59 pm: |
|
I was asked where I got the info that women in the mormon church received the priesthood. The History of Joseph Smith: Next, Emma Hale Smith became the first woman to receive the priesthood and it's fulness in 1838.
Sidney Rigdon wrote, "Emma was the one to whom the female priesthood was first given."
Brigham Young Diary: Mary A. Young admitted in to the Highest Holiest order of priesthood. (This was independant of any marriage sealing).
Later church historians in Utah deleted Emma's name for the 1843 description of the prophet's 'second annointing of the Highest Holiest Order'.
Here are other names under Hyrum Smith's patriarchal order: Olive G. Frost, Leonora Cannon Taylor, Mary Fielding Smith, Maria Turnbow, Louise Jackson, Thurza Cahoon, Lois Cutler, Phoebe Woodworth. |
steelsword (steelsword)
Intermediate Member
Username: steelsword
Post Number: 174
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.69.136.200
| | Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 10:47 pm: |
|
Cool Gc. Knew it was somewhere myself, amongst
all my material. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 462
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.1
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
|
steelsword, Isn't it odd that a church that believes in a goddess, (heavenly mother), doesn't believe in women holding the priesthood? By believing women can only receive the priesthood through mean, they are saying women are only good for 'vessels' to carry men to birth, on heaven and earth. The more wives, the more vessels; the more vessels, the more babies to grow and worship men. A mormon called me a 'priestcrafter'. Ironic, isn't it! But why should I be surprised. That same person asked me why I didn't become a preacher (protestant), but only before he realized I was a woman. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 463
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.1
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 12:16 pm: |
|
I wonder where mormons think Emma Smith is now? Having left the 'only true church', is she in the telestial kingdom? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 467
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.61.91
| | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:47 pm: |
|
I won't have to eat my words after all, concerning the article I read about the lds church asking that websites be taken down.
March 28, 2001 - Associated Press (exerpts from godchild)
Salt Lake City The Mormon Church has asked the leaders of congregations and other sub-groups of the church to take down their internet home pages.
The presiding Bishopric of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints made the request in a letter on behalf of the ruling First Presidency to the local leaders, from mission presidents to bishops.
The letter says that only official websites such as www.lds.org contain "approved, correlated material that the Church has deemed appropriate for the internet.
You can read this article in full at www.cultbusters.com.au. Look in Articles of General Interest, published June 6, 05.
While I note this article was from 4 years ago, it is still of interest today. If mission presidents to bishops have done what the First Presidency asked, any websites published now should be accurate, or at least approved by the church. In other words, we should consider mormon websites evidence of doctrines and principles of the mormon church. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 494
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.50.82
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 1:43 pm: |
|
Do we want a mormon in the White House? Rumor has it that Romney will be running for president of U.S.A. in the next election. |
steelsword (steelsword)
Intermediate Member
Username: steelsword
Post Number: 183
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.192.2.34
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 3:34 pm: |
|
I just e-mailed Tony Snow about the same subject
Gc. Hope all is well , steel. |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 511
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.49
| | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 11:38 am: |
|
Thanks steel, I am fine. What are your feelings about it? Each time you post is a reminder to pray for Richard! |
steelsword (steelsword)
Intermediate Member
Username: steelsword
Post Number: 186
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 207.192.2.34
| | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
|
I told Tony I would be cautious of a Mormon
president because of the pressure the church
could put on him. Richard still needs our prayers. I hope to see him again soon , thanks for all the Prayers , I told him about you Guys,
and he was so Thankful.
God bless Steel |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 485
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 8:27 am: |
|
GC & Steelsworld: As an outsider - why would the religion of a person affect your politics? How does this gel with the principles behind the Constitution I understand you studied at school?
Are you really not just demonising LDS, and find yourselves painted into a corner, having to try to justify ANY disapproval of LDS by reference to their religion and not their persoanl qualities or abilities?
If Romney were, for arguements sake, the best to fill the job and you could be sure he would represent your Country well, would your self created bias against his religious beliefs force you to back the second best?
Please explain, (steelsworld, not being funny but I think you may do this more justice - and you mention the concern) what influence the Church would be ABLE to have on an LDS President, that is any diferent or worse than that felt by a President TRULY active within his own faith, whatever it may be Jewish, Episcopalian, Methodist etc etc |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 543
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.52
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 5:26 pm: |
|
joesdad, your question is naive. US history shows not only a person's abilities, but gender, race, and religion are considerations upon which many people decide who they will vote for.
Your second paragraph doesn't deserve a response. Also, who I vote for is nobody's business. Especially you, when you are not an American?
Now I would like to ask you a question. I don't really care how you respond, but I will ask it. Do you believe if Romney runs for President, mormons will decide on his abilities and not his religion? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 488
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 6:50 am: |
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GC: Oh yes, many people have used negative bias in an attempt to segregate, and ensure that those who hold the secular power can be manipulated to ensure that the bias is enforced. So you think this is OK?
My second paragraph is totally valid, I can see why you would not WANT to respond to it, because you must either lie to me and yourself by saying "No", or confess that you are demonising LDS etc.
He He He - following your "logic", of course you will not discuss your beliefs as you do not consider me "Christian" - well, I suppose we don't very often, you usually just make side comments agreeing with arguements put forward by others (because you don't understand them?) or copying large chunks out of books and providing no commentary, or explaining your reasons for doing so (because you don't understand them?) - rarely do you provide any sensible discussion about what YOU believe.
Of course there will be many LDS that will vote for him, and many non-LDS that will not vote for him because of his religion - then of course there will be the majority, who's opinions really ought to be of most interest, who will look at his policies and abilities, and choose someone who can do the most good for the Country as a whole. Sadly, I imagine you would fall into the first category, leaving people like me, who will still be affected by the choice but unable to influence it, hoping that the sensible ones are in the majority (I imagine I shall live and die in hope on this one!).God bless America, cos you'll need it if you carry on the way you are. (whoops - I'll get off the soapbox now) |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 71
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.168.62.128
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 7:21 am: |
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Yaakov, I have a question...
If "almost everyone" will get to heaven eventually, then what happens to the one's who don't?
In His Grace, miki |
yaakov (yaakov)
Advanced Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 561
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.205.188.53
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 3:04 pm: |
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pointlessshrew
Yaakov, I have a question... If "almost everyone" will get to heaven eventually, then what happens to the one's who don't?
Congratulation PS. You are the first person to ask me that, no one else ever picked up on that.
The answer is, we are not sure. They are divergent opinions in Judaism. The "one's" that may not get to Heaven are the throughly evil people, like Hitler or Chemenilski. Some Jews believe the throughly evil souls disintegrate in Sheol and never make it to Heaven. I believe that no soul is beyond God's ability to cleanse.
I put the "almost everyone" there to give a nod to other Jewish opinions. |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 569
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.22
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 4:23 pm: |
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robert, The answer to your second question would be, (once I sort out your use of sentence structure): I do not demonize all members of the mormon church as I understand the control satan has had on it from it's inception. (In other words, there are many good people who belong to the mormon church.) The reason I said your second paragraph didn't deserve an answer is you consider me a liar, and your choice of words (find yourselves painted into a corner) is just another attempt by you to demonize anyone who is willing to expose mormonism, no matter that the evidence has been clearly shown over and over again by us. If this were not true, why your repeated question to me on many threads, "Where did you find that," or "Where did you copy that from"? Clearly, you have always shown more of an interest in Who says something than what they say. |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 78
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.142.94.126
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 5:14 pm: |
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Yaakov:
Thank you--being a student of linguistics does have it's rewards--especially when it comes to learning the subtleties of Jewish thought which are, in my humble opinion, far more complex than the average Christian gives credence to.
Yaakov writes: "I believe that no soul is beyond GOD's ability to cleanse."
I am sorry, but on this point I cannot agree. Men such as Hitler show such a degenerate disregard for the sanctity of life on such a major scale that I cannot imagine that they would *want* to be cleansed.
Which brings me to another question: Does Hebrew teaching make room at any level for the idea that there exist those souls who possess an intrinsic, visceral hatred of the Creator and reject Him outright? If so, what does Judaism teach about the state/destiny/reason of these souls being created?
Thanks for conversing.
In His Grace, miki
One other thing: What is the meaning of the name "Michaal"--as in Saul's daughter? |
yaakov (yaakov)
Advanced Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 563
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.205.188.53
| | Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 1:19 am: |
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pointlessshrew
Does Hebrew teaching make room at any level for the idea that there exist those souls who possess an intrinsic, visceral hatred of the Creator and reject Him outright?
I don't know.
By "reject Him", do you mean abandoning Judaism and worshipping an idol?
If so, what does Judaism teach about the state/destiny/reason of these souls being created?
I don't know.
What is the meaning of the name "Michaal"--as in Saul's daughter?
The name, "Michal," appears once in Tanakh as a noun (Shemuel II 17:20). In that verse, it refers to a stream of water (i.e. a brook). |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 89
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.138.163.226
| | Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 1:41 am: |
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Thank you, Yaakov.
By "reject Him" I am speaking of the human condition in general, not as pertains to the Faith of Judaism or Christianity.
Expound: Billions of people on the globe know that there is a GOD who created all things. Many of these, if not most, cannot identify Him as the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because they have no knowledge of such a designation, no access to the Tanakh, the Bible or the like. Their "knowledge" of GOD remains peripheral, at best.
It is my understanding that in creation GOD "wrote the natural Law in the heart of man"--that He, in making man in His image, created him to have an intrinsic comprehension (conscience) of good, evil, and the reality of a Creator.
Now, I worked in health care for a number of years. It was rare to meet such people, but there were those who vehemently cursed GOD, who had such a seething hatred for life in general, and the One Who created it in particular, that such hatred was palpable in their presence. They want nothing to do with GOD, just as they want nothing to do with life, for whatever reason (a couple of these people were even physicians, so not all of them were ill...)
It is to these kinds of people, and possibly idol worshippers (Hitler was one who was keenly drawn to the occult), to whom I refer.
As to the rest of your post, what source do you suppose would be best to pursue to look for a possible answer, from a Jewish perspective?
Thanks, Yaakov.
In His Grace, miki |
yaakov (yaakov)
Advanced Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 570
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.148.234.6
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:40 am: |
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pointlessshrew
It was rare to meet such people, but there were those who vehemently cursed GOD, who had such a seething hatred for life in general, and the One Who created it in particular, that such hatred was palpable in their presence. They want nothing to do with GOD, just as they want nothing to do with life, for whatever reason (a couple of these people were even physicians, so not all of them were ill...)
A physician that hated life? That seems very odd for someone in that profession. Did those physicians have patients or were they medical researchers? Were you in fear for your own life when in the same room with them?
As to the rest of your post, what source do you suppose would be best to pursue to look for a possible answer, from a Jewish perspective?
If you don’t have a personal connection with a Jewish scholar, I would start with askmoses.com. In your question, ask them to provide their source material. |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 97
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.158.48.145
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 3:00 pm: |
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Most of them are pathologists--which should explain some things by itself.
We now live about seventy miles from our local synagogue--moved out to the country last January. There are five rabbis there--none of whom are very good about chatting on the phone. I can't say I blame them--it is much easier to have face to face meetings. Now I only call if I can't figure out a translation.
Thanks for the link; I've never seen this one before.
On another topic, I was wondering if you've ever had any contact with Jews For Jesus, and if so what your thoughts were? |
yaakov (yaakov)
Advanced Member
Username: yaakov
Post Number: 571
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 63.148.234.6
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 4:42 pm: |
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Pathology is a study of diseases. I don’t understand why you think this profession is prone to hate life and curse God. It would seem to me that people in this profession are studying disease to eliminate it from people’s lives. Carrying out an autopsy doesn’t cause a hatred of life. They would only have less abhorrence of death due to being around corpses all the time. But even this is no less than undertakers, surgeons, or emergency personnel. I’m trying to think of a profession that would be prone to hating life and can’t think of any.
Your welcome to the link.
My, my, you really hop around your topics.
Jews for jesus? They are aggressive, deceptive proselytizers that seek to murder Jewish souls. Most people belonging to the organization were never Jewish in the first place. They are also a cult or near-cult organization that abuses its own members. Ex Jews for jesus |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 99
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.131.109.212
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 9:58 pm: |
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My first profession was medicine, Yaakov. And, yes, Yaakov, I know what Pathology is--and all of it's specialties. You questioned that a physician would hate life, I am only telling you that most of them--while working in my hospitals--did not do patient care, and this is how I knew them.
I don't know why I thought of this thing about Jews For Jesus--it came to me when I was trying to sleep last night. I had one contact with some of them in NYC. They were "proselytizing", as you call it, on the sidewalk in the Lower East Side when I was walking to MaryHouse one evening.
One of the guys with them gave me this little NT that has an introduction about their group. I still have it, but I never really gave it much thought. I only thought it odd that he said they were Christians, and yet all the men wore yarmulkes. Something about the conversation last night brought it to mind, and I simply wondered what your thoughts were.
Thanks for the feedback.
In His Grace, miki |
pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew)
Member
Username: pointlessshrew
Post Number: 100
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 172.131.109.212
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:05 pm: |
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Wow--this is another great site, Yaakov! Thank you. |
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