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Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 8:18 pm: | 
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Greetings to all on this forum. I am a former member of Christian Fellowship Church Ministries International. A little of the organization: in 1974, L.R. Davis (a former pastor from the United Pentecostal Church), established this church in Waukegan, Illinois. The original name was Christian Fellowship, Inc.; it would be changed later. Rev. Davis was a dynamic speaker who had the ability to capture an audience's attention with the gospel. At one point church attendance grew to nearly 1000 in the Waukegan congregation alone. Other churches sprang up as well. Norfolk, Virginia had one from 1979 to 2003; Orlando, Florida had one from 1980 to 1993; San Diego, California has been running since 1984; and the congregation in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, has been in operation since 1992. CFCMI has churches in Haiti and Sri Lanka. In the United States, CFCMI had 4 of its 5 stateside congregations near military bases.
While CFCMI appeared friendly and dynamic on the outside, there were serious problems within the organization. Most of them centered around L.R. Davis.
- Davis was asked to resign from the UPC due to allegations he had sex with boys during his tenure as pastor in Arkansas.
- Davis had an exclusive group of single men in his charge who lived in communal housing for many years. Stories surfaced that these men supposedly were required to give their paycheck to the church, except for $20 a week. These men could barely afford to buy suits while Davis and other pastors were living well. The single men were indoctrinated into a lifestyle of control and surveillance of each other. Dating women was not forbidden, but the men were kept under such a busy schedule it made seeking decent relationships difficult, if not impossible.
- Davis was accused of sexually assaulting men in his church. In 1991, he was arraigned on over 30 charges of sexual assault on the men, including minors who were living with the men, having moved from Mexico. In 1992, Davis was convicted on all charges and sentenced to 31 years in state prison. In 1999, Davis died at the age of 63 in an Illinois prison from heart and kidney failure.
Since Davis' death, several attempts from private citizens have been successful in revealing the scandal of CFCMI and holding the leadership accountable. Abusive Churches.Com was started by two former members, and one of their key accomplishments was publishing the entire transcripts of the Illinois v. Davis trial online. This educated many members and caused them to question the actions of the organization.
CFCMI has also been active with the Amway/Quixtar business since at least late 1999. In 2003, the Norfolk congregation was "dissolved" amid allegations that the senior pastor had misused church offerings for his personal gain, and his honesty in addressing the scandal of L.R. Davis. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 4:58 pm: |
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In May 2001, Pastor Peter F. Paine (the current CFCMI general pastor) announced that L.R. Davis was in fact guilty of at least several of the sex crimes in which he was convicted. One parishioner submitted a proposal to hold the leaders accountable for their misconduct and reduce the risk of a future scandal. This proposal was rejected by the CFCMI leadership. Why? It would mean that the pastors could lose their jos if they dishonored their office.
(Submitted by John Cady. This is the entire document as submitted in December 2001. Mr. Cady attended CFCMI from 1986 to 2003.)
I extend Greetings in the glorious name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I wish to submit the following proposal for you to review. It concerns an issue that
affects the ability of this church to function and fulfill its mission; as
an elder and minister of the gospel, I felt compelled by God to draft this.
Let me stress that I am not denying that God put pastors in the church as it
pleased Him. We have been blessed with dynamic, Holy Ghost filled pastors
who have faithfully preached God's word. Unfortunately, not all pastors
have served God with honor, nor have those entrusted as teachers or elders.
In the nearly 30 years since Christian Fellowship Ministries was founded, we
had to remove one general pastor (Sri Lanka) and close down one congregation
(Orlando). We also had to deal with allegations against Rev. L.R. Davis,
our founding pastor, and current pastors, teachers, and elders - including
me. I believe the Scripture in 1Timothy where Paul states against an elder
receive not an accusation, except before two or three witnesses. Here is
where we have the dilemma: how do we hold ourselves accountable, not just
before God, but before the men and women we are charged with ministering?
How do we deal with accusations of misconduct when it is brought up
repeatedly by different people? Most importantly, how do we deal with
misconduct when it involves a pastor, or even the general pastor? Gossip
among the congregation and making Internet sites slandering this church or
any other is not the solution; neither is hiding information in fear of
retribution by others. Failure to take action is to place souls in
jeopardy; we who serve in any position of responsibility in the church must
realize our brothers and sisters look to us for an example. We must set the
example not only by our individual conduct, but also in the manner we deal
with sin and illegal behavior when they find their way into the church.
My suggestion is to establish a system of checks and balances.
Historically, our nation was founded on a system of checks and balances -
the three branches of government. Our founding fathers were wise in doing
this because they knew man was a corrupt being; absolute power tends to
corrupt most souls, especially if their leadership does not acknowledge
Christ. As a church, we often are able to resolve disputes at the lowest
level without the pastor being required to review the matter. However,
there are some that view the pastors and other individuals in the church as
people who live above the law. A lot of prayer and thought went into this
proposal. This is to provide a means for the church to handle misconduct,
especially at higher levels without facing retribution. As I submit this
for your review, I pray you will hear my heart on this issue. As a
Christian and an elder in this ministry, I feel somewhat guilty over the
events of the past year. I love the pastors and thank God for the good
works they do. However, there has to be a better way to deal with issues
like this; if I just sat back and did nothing, then the blood would be on my
hands for chasing souls away from the church and God's word. I also know I
put a lot on the line when I decided to take this task. There will be those
who will see my idea as heresy, even stupidity. There will be those who
will be offended by my suggestions and wish me to just simply leave. My
love for Jesus Christ and the church He placed me in stirred me to seek ways
to work with the pastors and find ways to heal the church from within, plus
reduce the risk of such incidents in the future. Rather than leave, I chose
to stand and fight, seeking for solutions instead of adding to the problems.
May God bless us as we labor together to restore this church and see more
souls saved.
1. Misunderstandings will often arise in the church over many different
things. As Christians, we must strive to work out our differences in the
simplest, most reasonable manner possible. Jesus said in Matthew for
brethren to go to one another and resolve their disputes. Paul spoke in
Galatians that we must go to one another in the spirit of meekness and
restore one another. The vast majority of disputes or allegations of
wrongdoing are resolved between parishioners without ever going to the
pastor's office. The petty matters are often handled by designated elders
and swiftly defused. Those matters that cannot be resolved between
parishioners, including elders and teachers, are dealt with by the pastor
and are resolved at his level.
2. If the allegations cannot be resolved, or if they involve the
pastorship to such a level that his ability to perform his calling is
brought into question (i.e., the pastor is accused of inappropriate
behavior, or an elder or teacher for that matter), the following procedures
will be implemented.
a. An independent investigator will be hired to evaluate all aspects of
the allegations and collect statements and evidence supporting the case.
The investigator will not be a church member to avoid conflict of interest.
b. Once the statements and evidence are collected, they are brought
before the pastor and two elders (board members if available) for review.
If the investigation provides sufficient grounds for inquiry, a Church
Tribunal will convene.
c. The Church Tribunal will consist of the senior pastor of the
congregation and five elders. Witnesses and accused will be brought before
the tribunal and be briefed on their accusations. The tribunal's job will
be to review all statements and evidence brought before them and reach a
decision. Every opportunity must be granted for both accused and accused to
present their side of the argument before the tribunal in a fair, equal
manner.
d. In the event a pastor or the General Pastor is brought before the
tribunal, no less than two pastors will sit on the tribunal besides the
senior pastor presiding the meeting. This will ensure fairness and equal
representation on the pastor's behalf.
e. The tribunal's decision and action taken will not be reached without
much prayer and consideration of all sides of the argument. Once the
tribunal reaches its decision, it will be handed over to the senior pastor
for final review and disposition. In the event an elder or teacher (from a
local church) is found in the wrong on an issue, the senior pastor in the
elder's congregation will make the final outcome after prayerful
consideration of the tribunal's decision. If the offender is from a
stateside fellowship outside a local congregation, the General Pastor will
make the final decision. If the offender is one of the overseas
fellowships, the Foreign Missions Director will submit his recommendation
before routing it to the General Pastor. All decisions involving pastors,
both in the United States and overseas, will rest with the General Pastor.
In the event the General Pastor is found guilty of offenses, the senior
pastor over the tribunal will make the final decision based on the
tribunal's input.
3. Once the tribunal reaches its decision, the following actions may be
taken but are not all inclusive:
a. Reprimand from the senior pastor.
b. Suspension or removal from position as teacher/lay leader/lay
minister. In local congregations, this decision rests with the senior
pastor. Stateside fellowships rest in the general pastor's hands. Foreign
missions will also rest with the General Pastor after review by the Foreign
Missions Director.
c. Suspension/removal from position as pastor. Final decision to
remove a pastor rests with the General Pastor, regardless of location (US/
foreign). In the event the General Pastor is found not fit to lead, a
unanimous vote by the pastors must be achieved before the General Pastor can
be dismissed. When the General Pastor is removed from office due to
misconduct, a special board meeting must be held to install his replacement.
d. Excommunication. This is the most extreme of administrative actions
to be taken, and must not be reached without prayerful consideration. The
church tribunal will only consider excommunication after all other avenues
have been exhausted. Exceptions to the rule are 1) willful teaching of
doctrines contrary to Scripture, and 2) blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.
e. If suspension or removal is performed, the person who was recipient
of such action may file an appeal for reinstatement through their local
pastor after such time as delivered at the tribunal. The appeal is to offer
opportunity for the individual to prove he is worthy of resuming a position
of responsibility in the church.
4. The church tribunal is only to perform actions conducive to the
spiritual good of the church. In the event the tribunal finds that the
offender has committed criminal acts, the tribunal must cease and all
matters turned over to local, state, or federal authorities for legal
action.
5. The tribunal is not designed to replace or compromise the confidence
between pastor and parishioner. If a person seeks private counsel from a
pastor, that counsel is considered privileged communication and cannot be
used in tribunal or legal action, regardless of the subject matter. This
confidential communication is guaranteed regardless of position in the
church.
6. Anyone who becomes subject to a church tribunal will be treated
innocent until proven guilty. Persons who are testifying in a tribunal
shall be afforded all rights to worship and work in the framework of the
ministry without criticism or unfair treatment.
I close on this prayer, that we learn from our past mistakes and strive to
walk a path worthy of the vocation which we are called. I pray you will
take into consideration what I said and use it to help rebuild our church
into what God meant it to be - a vibrant, lively branch bearing much fruit
for the Kingdom. I also pray this will help restore trust in our
parishioners that we are looking out for their souls. May God bless us
richly as we labor together to further His Kingdom on earth as it is in
heaven. Together, we can establish a way to ensure the errors of the past
will never be repeated, and everyone in the church from the pastors on down
will be protected from abuse, gossip, and lies.
Your fellow soldier in the Lord,
John |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 5:00 pm: |
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If anyone wants to know more about CFCMI and L.R. Davis, check these sites out:
http://www.cfcmi.org - church's website
http://abusivechurches.com - Abusive Churches.Com |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 5:05 pm: |
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Here are excerpts of the CFCMI By-Laws. Themain focus here is to show how much absolute power the General Pastor and the senior pastors had, especially to remove members who may voice disagreement to their views!
Take a look...
I.A. General Pastor
I.A.1. History: It is understood and held to be true by all the men and women of The CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP, Inc., also known as CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP CHURCH MINISTRIES, INTERNATIONAL, (hereinafter CFCMI) that Lloyd Ray Davis, under the divine inspiration and leadership of the Holy Spirit, is the founder and first General Pastor of CFCMI.
I.A.2. Authority: The position of General Pastor of CFCMI is a calling from God and at no time shall any person or faction of CFCMI; including its Board of Directors, officers, bishops, pastors, ministers, elders, or parishioners, be able to remove the General Pastor from his position. God, is the only authority by which a General Pastor can be removed: by the General Pastor tendering his own resignation, or by death (I Chronicles 16:21-22), or as stipulated in I.A.6.a. The General Pastor is also the President of the Board of Directors. Therefore, the administrative infrastructure of CFCMI, and each individual therein shall always be accountable directly to the General Pastor of CFCMI
I.A.3. Discipline: Unless otherwise stated in these Bylaws, the General Pastor shall be responsible for the discipline of any subordinate for improper action or behavior. The General Pastor shall be the sole determiner of what constitutes improper action or behavior. The General Pastor, in his discretion, may delegate the responsibility for discipline.
I.A.4 Establishing Directives: The General Pastor shall have the authority to issue directives without prior approval from the General Board of Directors, provided said directive does not violate existing Bylaws. The General Pastor shall notify the General Board of Directors at the earliest possible opportunity of any directives he issues. The General Board of Directors may only overturn a directive by a unanimous vote of all Board members then in office and voting.
I.A.5. Veto Powers: The General Pastor shall have the authority to veto any decision of The General Board of Directors, which can be overturned only with a unanimous vote of all Board members. The unanimous vote of the General Board of Directors shall stand as the final decision on the matter.
I.B.4. General Secretary: The General Secretary shall maintain all corporate records and documents, and shall certify that the records are true and correct. The General Secretary shall also receive and verify reports from subordinate churches and make said reports available to the General Board of Directors. The authority of the General Secretary to investigate or verify reports from subordinate entities of CFCMI is not automatic and shall be granted as needed by the General Pastor. The General Secretary shall be appointed by, and shall serve at the sole discretion and pleasure of, the President of the Board; he must be approved by a two-thirds majority of the Board, but shall be exempt from the re-election process; he shall have full voting rights at all times. The General Secretary may be removed in the same manner as proscribed in I.C.6. (Removal of Member From General Board of Directors).
I.B.5. General Treasurer: The Treasurer shall oversee all corporate financial transactions and shall maintain accurate books, records, and financial statements. The General Treasurer shall also receive and verify reports from subordinate churches and make said reports available to the General Board of Directors. The authority of the General Treasurer to investigate or verify reports from subordinate entities of CFCMI is not automatic and shall be granted as needed by the General Pastor. The General Treasurer shall be appointed by, and shall serve at the sole discretion and pleasure of, the President of the Board; he must be approved by a two-thirds majority of the Board, but shall be exempt from the re-election process; he shall have full voting rights at all times. The General Treasurer may be removed in the same manner as proscribed in I.C.6. (Removal of Member From General Board of Directors).
I.C.4.b. Power of Unanimous Vote: The General Board of Directors can override a General Pastor's directive or veto of the General Pastor only by a unanimous vote of all other Board members then in office.
I.C.6. Removal of Member From General Board of Directors: The removal of a Director must be initiated by the General Pastor and approved by the General Board of Directors. Notice of the meeting to consider the removal of a Director shall be delivered by certified mail or by hand delivery to the Director in question. A meeting of the General Board shall be called to consider the removal of the Director. With the recommendation of the General Pastor, the General Board, by a majority vote of two-thirds (2/3) of all Directors then in office and entitled to vote, may, with or without cause, remove a Director from office.
I.F.4. Suspension: The General Pastor may suspend any minister at any time, with or without cause. Throughout the suspension of such minister, all rights, privileges, responsibilities, authority of his ordination are also suspended.
I.P.3.c. Recourse: Any parishioner of CFCMI may petition their Bishop or the General Pastor for an audience to address their concerns, but only after having exhausted all local pastoral avenues.
I.Q.4.c. Disfellowship: A parishioner may be disfellowshiped from CFCMI at the sole discretion of the local Pastor, Bishop, or General Pastor. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 7:56 am: |
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The by-laws were written exculsively to prevent the firing of L.R. Davis, and allow him to live his secret life of sexual abuse of men in the church. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:58 pm: |
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This church operates in San Diego and the members are strictly controlled by the pastor. They are told if they leave the church, they will go to hell. They are not allowed to associate with anyone outside the church. The pastor has access to all finances of members including bank accounts. Is there any agency that can be contacted to investigate potential illegal activity? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 6:35 am: |
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If you want to see what else went on/is going on in this church go to:
www/geocities.com/cfcmi |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 6:42 am: |
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The previous link is:
http://www.geocities.com/cfcmi/
Check it out and leave a message. |
X-CFCMI
| | Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 7:13 pm: |
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There are rumors circulating that Pastor Peter F. Paine, the current General Pastor, and Edward J. Thomas, the senior pastor in Norfolk, Virginia, may be bailing out of CFCMI to further pursue their own interests via Quixtar. For many years there were promises to construct new church buildings and promote new missions; those promises never were fulfilled. Instead, the ground remains untouched and attendance is declining. |
X-CFCMI
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 9:05 pm: |
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In 1999, Peter F. Paine announced a "Capital Campaign" to raise money for the new church building. What became of the funds??? |
X-CFCMI
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 8:27 am: |
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There is a new move in Norfolk, Virginia, where Edward J. Thomas is being replaced by Terrance Taylor as the senior pastor. This move adds more speculation that the end of CFCMI is near...PFP and EJT are preparing to bail out and leave the new leaders holding the bag, so to speak. The story goes that Taylor did not want to leave San Diego (pastored by Daniel P. Lantis, a man with serious psychiatric issues) but reluctantly accepted the offer. This leaves the California congregation without a buffer to protect them from a raving lunatic. More on Lantis later... |
X-CFCMI
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 1:29 pm: |
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Daniel Lantis:
Pastor of the CFC congregation in San Diego, California. He has been the senior pastor since 1989, and during his tenure he has witnessed a steady decline in attendance...even after moving into a spacious church building on Park Avenue in downtown San Diego. At one time his congregation seated between 150-200 people; now only 40 attend on a regular basis.
Originally from Michigan, Lantis started out in 1980 as one of LR Davis' cronies while in the military, and served as an assistant pastor in Norfolk, Virginia in 1983. He was known for being a firebrand of a preacher then, but more bearable. In 1989, following the abrupt departure of Scott Morehouse (former San Diego pastor), Lantis was sent to set the house in order as it were. That never happened. Instead, consistent feedback from current and former CFC members in the Golden State paint a very nasty picture of Lantis: a loose canon who fires off on people without warning, berating any person who even appears to be out of step. His worship services turned into massive rebukings of the whole church, making everyone feel inadequate and worthless. He even had outside groups schedule seminars to bolster the congregation only to cancel one meeting due to "lack of truth".
Originally one the "eunuchs" under LR Davis, Lantis retracted his eunuchship in 2000 and married a woman in his congregation. Marriage did not mellow Lantis out, though. His tirades still continued and more people were getting fed up with his abusive behavior; attendance still declined.
Lantis is also very controlling financially. He required all church members to hand their checkbooks to the church treasurer - married and single - and they had to ask Lantis' permission to spend money even on necessities. He also recruited a lot of members into the Amway/Quixtar scam. This has also generated complaints from the pew as folks feel they have to be part of Quixtar and Lantis' upline in order to continue in his church...then they get tired of the abuse and leave.
Outside news reporters who visited Lantis' congregation for the first time also suspected something was wrong there, and Lantis was not too tightly wrapped. Why is a mentally unstable person still a pastor? Because of his connectons with Pete Paine and Ed Thomas. Rumor has it he too will bail out and go into Quixtar full time...only his church does not have anyone slated to replace him. Seems like no one really cares is San Diego even remains in existence.
Lantis doesn't... |
X-CFCMI
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 5:49 am: |
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Another aspect of CFCMI, which goes along with other cults and abusive churches, is their eagerness to hobnob with the political machines of their communities. This is an attempt to gain legitimacy for what the church does. L.R. Davis did a lot in this area when it came to schmoozing with Lake County and state politicians. He even helped Senator Carol Mosely Braun in her 1992 campaign, which resulted in her being the first black woman ever elected to the US Senate. Davis even joined the NAAACP as a Life Member - kind of ironic since he also was a "life member" in prison.
When the case against LRD unfolded, and he was convicted of sexually assaulting a minor, all the political support dried up. No self-respecting or self-preserving politician would want to be associated with a convicted felon...especially a pedophile and child molester. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 4:41 pm: |
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I don't have any speculation about CFCMI but I do about 'pastor' Daniel Lantis in San Diego. The reason that I even want to post this started last year. I didn't have direct connection with the Lantis family until I met someone who regularly attends his church on Park Blvd. As a naive newly high school graduate, I subjected to getting into the Quixtar/Amway business. The Lantis family became my mentors during the time i was there. First thing that was fishy to me, they wouldn't allow my sponsor to mentor me because he's single and a man. I mean if he's my sponsor and this is a professional business like it prides itself on, there should not be any reason why I cannot be sponsored by him. he's the one i trusted so i got into it. The men had their own little groups and women had their own. Lantis definitely belittled everyone he could, mostly the men, and never excludes yelling at the wife in front of everyone. This business gives you a 2-5 year plan until you become a millioinaire but I saw single men who barely hung onto a career on the side and were completely subjective to him. Shelling out hundreds of dollars to buy products whenever Daniel said they'd be 'stupid' not to.
Most of you are probably more interested in the details about the members of the church though. The single men were so incredibly devout from living with each other in run down neighborhoods and on Lantis' beck and call (picking up his stepson to go to martial arts class) to helping him build a garage for the Lantis family home.
My only concern is not with how much money he'll get away with but it's about the well being of the people he and his family affect. Using people's dreams to create false hopes that lead to throwing away their hard earned money(their children are learning it too). Last time I attended one of their meetings, they recruited about 4 pregnant single mothers and two women from the military.
And one more detail, they try to accidentally slip in a few invitations to church through the business meetings. Maybe that's how they're trying to rebuild the attendance. |
X-CFCMI
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 10:04 am: |
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I was affiliated with CFCMI for nearly 17 years, and now I am glad to be free...they did so much damage to me over the years spiritually and emotionally, that only by God's hand I am walking the road to being whole again. Check out my personal account:
http://www.geocities.com/jsc1215 |
Avenger of Truth (198.26.132.101)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 1:07 pm: |
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In case anyone is interested,read the State of the Church Address presented by Pete Paine. One can see between the lines and it looks like Paine, Thomas, & Lantis are going to bail out soon with all the money. |
X-CFCMI (68.103.71.106)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
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There was a sad event recently in CFCMI...Pastor Roland Saniatan (1947-2004) passed away in San Diego, California. |
bob nixon (67.171.214.59)
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 11:05 pm: |
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its been a few years since i checked up on the lrd crowed, and i must say seems like the rooster has come home to roost.way to go guys. |
John Cady (138.139.143.2)
| | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2004 - 3:12 pm: |
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Bob, good to hear from you! I left CFCMI in 2003...seems like God is purging His children from a corrupt tree and planting them elsewhere so they can flourish! Check out my personal website (http://www.geocities.com/jsc1215), and http://abusivechurches.org. Keep in touch!
God bless, John |
Rob Allen (138.163.0.38)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 5:56 pm: |
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Holy cow, Bob Nixon?! One of my favorite brothers to talk to, good to see you here Bob. I left CFC in '94, I still remember all those paisley ties. Take care, Bob. |
John Cady (68.111.102.130)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 10:01 pm: |
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There have been some changes of the guard in CFCMI lately.
- Kenneth Ray is now an associate pastor in Norfolk.
- Casey Clark is an associate pastor in Waukegan.
- Pat Taylor is now the main promoter of the single men's ministry/eunuchship doctrine.
- Jacksonville's fellowship may be falling apart. I think the Varkolys had enough of PFP's pipe dreams and left. (I may be incorrect, but on the CFCMI website the Jax page is down.)
- Pastor Ulysse is back in the USA following the recent unrest in his native Haiti.
- San Diego, after meeting in a hotel for the last few months, is in a new facility - and smaller. DPL is doing good at scattering the flock.
- Will EJT and PFP retire and run off with everyone's money? We will see... |
Anonymous (62.94.38.7)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 5:09 pm: |
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I have to admit that I was very surprised to see the name John Cady spilling the beans. Good on ya. I will leave my name anonoymous now, but I want you to know that you always set a really good example to me. I was about to get back involved with the Church and started re-searching to find out what ever became of Pastor Davis. Thank God I did. Me and my wife at the time were very fortunate to get stationed somewhere else before all this came rolling down hill. I was on a ship and gone 90% of the time but she was there and quickly informed me of everything during our transfer. Now I am wanting to get my life right with God and once again my now ex-wife stepped up and pointed out this website to me. Thanks you guys and God Bless you for warning others of false prophets. |
John Cady (68.111.102.17)
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 7:41 am: |
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When I left CFCMI in 2003, I had a lot of baggage associated with nearly 17 years of deep personal involvement with this ministry. I had a lot of information most ex-members did not have because of my level of involvement and commitment which needed to be made public. I would not have left on a casual whim. There was a lot of corruption in the leadership, and when Pastor Paine and Pastor Thomas rejected proposals for church reform there wasn't much more I could do to make CFCMI a safe place for others to worship God in Spirit and truth.
When the church cleansing took place that was God's message to me that it was time to leave. Leaving was the best thing that happened to me: my health is better, my spiritual life is stronger, and I am now married. I was also able to swallow my pride and patch things up with my family. |
RALF G.MULHERN (198.81.26.106)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 5:46 pm: |
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I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THIS CHURCH.WAS IN IT FOR 21 YEARS TIL LANTIS GAVE ME THE BOOT,CAUSE A GIRL STARTED LIKING ME.SHE IS NOW MY WIFE.GOD BLESS |
Karen Mulhern (198.81.26.106)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 11:42 pm: |
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Hi My name is Karen Mulhern. Wife of Ralf Mulhern.
He's has been told to leave three or now the fourth time because he didn't agree with everything. Obviously Ralf's other wives before me saw what was going on and also left. Well, i didn't want to leave because it was the truth of God but Pastor lantis told Ralf that if he continued to see and date me , he would have to leagve. This left Ralf somewhat distraught. and so was i. Since we love the church. it was just the administration that was screwy. Now my husband and I are happily married 2 months but yet still seeking the church that preaches the truth. I have had constant disputes with pastor Lantis with how he treats people especially his own wife and kid. He's needs to get a life and some prozac for his temper. he should also step down and let Assistant pastor taylor take over.
because there has been alot of backbitting in this church and the ground stinks of murkiness and foul fallowed ground. they waited I don't how many months before I got a welcome pack and and never recieved a baptismal certificate either. Well., if you want to get back to us we can tell you things that will give you the wiilies. trust me By for now Karen and Ralf Mulhern |
John Cady (68.111.102.17)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 1:12 pm: |
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Ralf and Karen, feel free to contact me. My e-mail link is on my website; I will be more than happy to assist you in finding a church which preaches God's word and is not bound under the abusive leadership we all have experienced. Like you, I was a long-term member until God opened my eyes to the mess which was going on; since then, my walk with God is becoming deeper and stronger. Just to let you know, I am now married (November 4 is my first anniversary), and we have a baby on the way.
God is good to us. |
John Cady (68.111.102.17)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 10:36 pm: |
|
Ralf,
I am simply amazed about WHY Dan disliked you. All because a G-I-R-L liked you? That is sooooo twisted. Then again, several of the inner circle of CFCMI were butt pirates, L.R. being the chief bandito! You were right in leaving that place. I was up for shore duty in 2002, and I almost wound up in San Diego. I said to God I would rather be in Bremerton, Washington than California; I heard a lot of feedback about Dan "Loose Cannon" Lantis, and wanted nothing to do with him. He treats his congregation like dogs. |
Rob Allen (138.163.0.38)
| | Posted on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 4:24 pm: |
|
Ralf,
I'm so glad to hear that you are out of that place, Lantis has always treated everyone like dirt and you in particular seemed to get a lot of it. Congratulations to you and the Mrs.! |
RALF G.MULHERN (198.81.26.106)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 4:33 pm: |
|
Hey John,Rob,anyone else who left cfc please e mail us at;pebles4375@aol.com |
Anonymous (198.81.26.106)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:58 pm: |
|
Thankyou Rob. Our email is jamin4jesus1@yahoo.com
How's your family doing? why don't we get together
sometime and compare notes about the elusive Lantis and his practices. With much respect. Ralf
P.S. My wife and i are doing very well thankyou. |
John Cady (138.139.143.2)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 12:57 pm: |
|
More people are wising up to all the nonsense which has been going on and leaving. There are several churches which formed following the previous breaks from CFCMI:
- Truth of God Ministries, Norfolk Virginia; Mitch Hill, Pastor
- New Beginnings Christian Ministries, Norfolk, Virginia; Duane Robinson, Pastor; satellite fellowships in New York, New Hampshire, and Montana
- New Beginnings Christian Ministries, King's Bay, Georgia; Clenta Walker & Fred Hartage, Pastors; satellite fellowship in Jacksonville, Florida
Some of the people who left CFCMI and joined these other congregations were elders who had been involved 15 years or longer. They were tired of the games, and wanted a God-given change. |
RALF G.MULHERN (198.81.26.106)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:28 pm: |
|
anything in San Diego,concerning new Churches starting from people who have left CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP MINISTRIES INTERNATIONAL should contact RALF AND KAREN MULHERN AT JAMIN4JESUS1@YAHOO.COM,or come fellowship with us at our home in OCEAN BEACH FOR BIBLE STUDIES FUN,WORSHIP,ETC. |
John Cady (68.111.102.17)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 10:24 am: |
|
Ralf, I am glad you and your wife are picking up the pieces and move forward in the Lord. |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 138.162.0.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 10:56 am: |
|
Well, the latest buzz around the ministry is that Norfolk sold their old building. However, no plans are yet made for a new facility.
Sounds to me like Ed Thomas is getting ready to abandon his calling, take the money, and run! |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.225.180.126
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 4:28 am: |
|
The closing of Norfolk's building will no doubt leave the single men with no place to go... |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 138.162.0.43
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 6:22 am: |
|
Well foolks, EJT has settled into his new roost in Chesapeake, far from the Navy bases. He boasted in Waukegan that the church is more energized and alive than it was in Norfolk; I beg to differ with him that the building had anything to do with it. I had no problem worshipping in the building; I did, however, have a problem with people who refused to acknowledge there were serious sin issues that needed to be handled in a Biblical manner.
As for the single men...they are on their own. Pete and Ed don't really need them anymore. |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 138.162.0.42
| | Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 2:58 pm: |
|
Believe it or not, EJT is gearing up for a trip to Sri Lanka to assess the damage done to the churches because of the tsunami. I can only hope and pray he does the right thing and actually be a minister to the souls of those who were hurt in the disaster's wake.
PFP has not said anything about going to Sri Lanka with him, and neither has DPL. |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.136.49.225
| | Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 3:35 pm: |
|
Servicemen's Center Closed
The Servicemen's Center in North Chicago has finally closed. With all the talk about relocating, it looks like CFCMI will be abandoning the sailors they used to recruit for the past 30 years. |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.136.49.225
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 4:56 am: |
|
Looks like this thread is pretty dead. |
jsc1215 (jsc1215)
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.250.255.200
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 9:14 pm: |
|
For those who do not know, the Abusive Churches.Org website has been down since October. Alan McIntyre shut it down following a threatened lawsuit. All I know was it did not involve CFCMI. |
pbj2u (pbj2u)
New member
Username: pbj2u
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2006
Posted From: 70.176.168.35
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 9:53 am: |
|
cfcmi.org mentions nothing of any building projects. What happenned in Waukegan? |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.33.155.107
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 8:10 pm: |
|
Waukegan has boasted of building projects for the last 20 years...and is blowing smoke as usual. They will not build, but instead Pete and Ed will eventually bail out with all their ill-gotten gains. |
fsg1958
New member
Username: fsg1958
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 74.128.37.95
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:06 pm: |
|
I was a victim of L.R. Davis when I was stationed at Great Lakes. I was 17 yrs old at the time, and met him in a jewelry store on the strip. It was April of 1976 when I met him, and was introduced to his church. I didn't go to court to testify against him, but I filed an affidavit with the prosecutors instead, as I was afraid of what I might do if I saw him face to face. I am almost 48 yrs old now, and because of what he did to me, I have been unable to work since being discharged in 1977. They tell me I have chronic/severe PTSD because of being victimized by him and and a guy named Tommy, who I was told was also in the Navy at the time. I was so happy to read that the son of a ••••• was dead. I pray to God that he suffers in hell for his actions as a so-called man of God! I want to apologize to all his later victims for not going to NIS or the police at the time, but he had me terrorized, and it was only a few years ago that I was even able to start talking about it in therapy!! I have been reading the transcripts of his trial, and I can't help but feel that if I had only been brave enough to talk to someone, that ••••••• may have been put away then, and spared so many people! If any of you were also victims of that false preacher, I would be interested in hearing from you. Since reading all of these messages, and over a thousand pages of transcripts, and living a wasted life since 1976, I need healing. I am reaching out to anyone who is willing to e-mail me. I am hurting, and have been for so long. Please help me by talking to me. My email address is FSG1958@juno.com. Thank you, and God bless you all. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.34.74.86
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:18 pm: |
|
AbusiveChurches.Org is back online, but the traffic has slowed due to things being a bit quiet on the CFCMI camp. I can only pray the leadership will one day humble themselves before God and repent of the compromise and covering up of sin which taints everything about their ministry.
From what I have read, it appears the children of the leadership are all taking different directions and the future of the organization may very well be in question. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 1:33 pm: |
|
It is now official: all of the CFCMI congregations are moving to Norfolk, Virginia. The move is expected to be completed by summer 2008. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 4.159.177.98
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 2:25 pm: |
|
ANY MORE WALKOUTS?
There was a rumor on the Abusive Churches website regarding three more walkouts in October? Does any one know any more? I may know them.
Also how much privacy do single men get in this group? I may still have a friend in there. If I use the address he gave me will others read his mail if he is in church housing? |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 7:51 am: |
|
bramble: "Does anyone know of any more walkouts from this group in the past few months? How many are in Norfolk congregation or in all four churches at this time?"
I do not know exactly how many since I currently live in Baltimore, but I would say there are probably only around 300 total in all four congregations. Waukegan is phasing out its Sunday School due to lack of teachers, if that gives any indication.
bramble: "Are you talking about the proposed church to be built on Newtown Rd? Did CFC in Norfolk have a Christmas Eve service this past Christmas? I get the feeling things are really slowing down there."
The Norfolk church moved out of Newtown Road once they put the bid in on a building on Azalea Garden Road. During the transition they have been holding services in a hotel in Norfolk; they had a service on the 23rd as per their website, but no special service on the 24th...or the 31st, if I am correct. Please let me know if I am wrong on this.
bramble: "Also how much privacy do single men get in this group? I may still have a friend in there. If I use the address he gave me will others read his mail if he is in church housing?"
During my nearly 17 years in CFCMI, the single men who lived in staff housing usually had no privacy. Every waking moment was monitored, and yes, the mail was screened unless it went to the actual address. In Norfolk, usually the single men would get all their mail if it arrived directly to their apartment; if it went to the church, the pastor or one of his cronies would intercept anything suspicious, like ex-member mail. Personal e-mail has NOT been monitored closely, though.
There are ways to bypass their system. I logged onto AbusiveChurches.Org in 2001 under an assumed name to learn more before I left; the leadership never even suspected anything. Add to that I was living alone in a staff apartment, and my movements went unnoticed.
Your friend may be looking for answers; there are different avenues to take. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 8:44 am: |
|
Coming Together, Moving Up! (Part 1 of 2)
Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ...
As the General Pastor of Christian Fellowship Church Ministries, International, I have been praying about how we can rise to do more for God; to do all God has called us to do; to become the largest, Jesus’-name ministry in the world. After much prayer, over many months, God blessed and now God has spoken.
Let me elaborate on this. The process was and is this; God spoke in January of 2005 at our annual Board meeting and said that we were to be the largest, most effective Jesus’-name ministry in the world. I had the privilege to speak about this in the State of the Church Address in 2005. The Board and I prayed about how God was going to make that happen.
Then, in January of 2006, God spoke again and told us that we need to get back to our roots in the ministry. I shared this in the State of the Church address in January 2006.
As you know our roots are in military ministry, and military ministry remains one of our cornerstones to this day. There was a lot more prayer, and in March of this year God answered our prayers.
This will be a great accomplishment and we all know that great accomplishments are never easy. Because we have the assurance that God is in charge, we have confidence that He will direct us.
I received this confirmation. I have spoken with and prayed with Pastor Thomas, those on our International Board, and all of our senior pastors, and we are all in harmony. What I am talking about is going to take place in 2008.
I come to you knowing beyond any shadow of turning that we have come to a proper point in our ministry’s history to live out the full meaning of our calling, to become the largest Jesus’-name ministry in the world.
Pastor Davis, our founding pastor, shared about how God spoke to him and told him to make the home front strong. As a ministry, we have been doing good, but now it is time to do great!
We need to train the next generation of leaders in this ministry. We prayerfully looked at many options, now have a clear direction of how to accomplish our God-given goal. It must be said that this is not a change of direction as much as it is the next major step in the “evolution” of our ministry.
I know we serve a God that leads and guides us, who will never leave us, nor forsake us. So if you are ready for the plan here it is:
We will be moving the world headquarters to Virginia and creating a new unified congregation there. We must do this together. Every person and every position is critical to the success that God is directing us toward. Everyone in this ministry—all of us—all of our brothers and sisters worldwide will have an important role in this. Every pastor, usher, teacher, singer, computer programmer, engineer, technician, fellowship coordinator, parking lot attendant, greeter, musician, every parishioner, from every child to every senior citizen, and all in between; all are important, all are needed, all will be a blessing and all will be blessed.
Pastor Thomas and I have spoken with key leaders and all our brothers and sisters in San Diego, Waukegan, Virginia Beach, and Fort Lauderdale; and we will be talking to everyone in our fellowships to help us with this move.
In San Diego, California, and Lake County, Illinois, even though we will not have congregations in these locations as we do today, we will build vibrant, effective military ministries. Our ministry began as a ministry to the military. The community was always welcomed and embraced, and that will continue. We will prayerfully seek the buildings best suited for this purpose. We are a family! We need to do this together. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 8:51 am: |
|
(Part 2 of 2)
As we relocate to Virginia, together we will build a new World Headquarters and congregation. If you do not currently reside in Virginia, I am inviting you to move; to come and be a part of this. Together we can and we will make this work.
Of course, some will be asked to stay where they are, and others will be asked to go to help facilitate the military ministry. I pray God blesses you with the clear confirmation that this is His will. God has done that for me, and I know that He can do that for you. All are needed and all are welcome. We will focus on training and sending people to places where we have a military presence: existing ports such as Yokosuka, Japan, and Honolulu, Hawaii, and some proposed ports such as Naples, Italy, and Rota, Spain. This was not born out of a desire to move; rather a desire to move up.
We will create a new, powerful, more unified home front with a new World Headquarters, an awesome congregation, and we will open the doors to the Minister’s College in Virginia in August of 2008.
The ministry will be strengthened so that we can send men and families where needed. Pastor Davis often taught us “There must be a coming together before there can be a going out.” This plan is clear, but not complete; so know this: GOD IS LEADING! You are an important part. Our pastors are following the leading of God. Our destination is clear. We will face obstacles. But we will overcome. Together we will be successful. This is a God-led effort with full support of the International Board and Mrs. Davis. This effort must be done with the harmony of all in the ministry. No one will be left behind, and no one is going to take someone’s job. We will work together, each of us looking to the greater good, and all of us lifting each other up as we lift up the blood stained banner of Jesus Christ.
As we come together, as we grow stronger, we will see an explosion of growth in the ministry worldwide. This is an answer to prayer for clear direction. It will require great sacrifice. Together we can do this. GOD IS DIRECTING US! The wheels are already turning. Things are now happening as we move forward. But this may not affect you for the next several weeks or months. So you may be wondering why we are making this announcement now. The answer is clear, so you can prayerfully prepare for the future. It is my prayer and my firm conviction that everyone in this ministry will be positively affected.
This is our time line. The senior pastors and key leaders will relocate to Virginia by spring 2008. Some key people will need to relocate earlier to help facilitate the overall move. Most of us should be in Virginia by June 2008. Some will be asked to relocate to Great Lakes, San Diego, Hawaii, Japan, Italy and Spain. Then we will have a celebration. It will take place at the International Conference, August 2008, at our new “World Headquarters” in Virginia. This move will require great dedication and great sacrifice from everyone, but the results will be a powerful growth in our ministry worldwide. We will grow as individuals and as a ministry. I do not question God’s timing or His direction. This is absolutely what God is leading us to do. We are becoming the largest Jesus’-name ministry in the world!
So, let’s review. We will have a new World Headquarters in Virginia. We are going to build a strong unified congregation. We will strengthen our military outreach worldwide. We will place increased emphases on training leaders, including the opening of our Minister’s College.
I pray you are excited about the direction that God is leading us in. If you have any questions, Pastor Thomas and I are more than willing to answer them.
May God bless you richly and give you clear understanding and confirmation.
Yours in Christ’s Service, Peter F. Paine
General Pastor |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.104.208
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 9:45 am: |
|
jsc1215: Thanks for your insight and answers into the single men of CFC. My friend may be thinking of leaving or gone I can't say for sure. Time will tell.
BTW:I just thought that maybe there was no Christmas Eve service after looking at www.pillars.net.They were passing off notes from a two year old Christmas Eve service as if it had just occurred.
I truly hope that www.abusivechurches.org gets reopened to new posters as it seems to get more CFC traffic than this board. Also it has more information on CFC due its specific nature. There are always about three to five guests on at any given time. I wonder what they would say if they could post.
Do you happen to know why doesn't the Cult Freedom Coalition site take posts?
I'm just grateful that I can post here at least. This and the other boards have been a blessing. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.104.208
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 9:49 am: |
|
jsc1215: Thanks for your insight and answers into the single men of CFC. My friend may be thinking of leaving or gone I can't say for sure. Time will tell.
BTW:I just thought that maybe there was no Christmas Eve service after looking at www.pillars.net.They were passing off notes from a two year old Christmas Eve service as if it had just occurred.
I truly hope that www.abusivechurches.org gets reopened to new posters as it seems to get more CFC traffic than this board. Also it has more information on CFC due its specific nature. There are always about three to five guests on at any given time. I wonder what they would say if they could post.
Do you happen to know why doesn't the Cult Freedom Coalition site take posts?
I'm just grateful that I can post here at least. This and the other boards have been a blessing. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.177.146
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:06 pm: |
|
(whoops I did hit the sent button twice on above post--internet was slow) ANOTHER SINGLE MENZ QUES...
Can anyone please tell me why a certain number of these CFC Single Men end up lame and in wheelchairs?
Are their jobs so physically demanding? Is something lacking in their diet that would do this? Is there another common underlying cause? I have heard this more than once and from more than one source. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:06 pm: |
|
http://abusivechurches.org will not reopen to new members anytime soon. The site owner has pretty much been out of touch with everyone; any problems or messages have been handled by his wife. It's a shame he chose to be reclusive after all this time...his forums were, and still are, a valuable archive of information.
Cult Freedom Coalition - http://www.geocities.com/cfcmi - was meant to be an archive of newspaper articles covering the Illinois vs. Davis trial. The site owner has been inactive for years. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.177.146
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:10 pm: |
|
(whoops I did hit the sent button twice on above post--internet was slow) ANOTHER SINGLE MENZ QUES...
Can anyone please tell me why a certain number of these CFC Single Men end up lame and in wheelchairs?
Are their jobs so physically demanding? Is something lacking in their diet that would do this? Is there another common underlying cause? I have heard this more than once and from more than one source. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.177.146
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:15 pm: |
|
(whoops I did hit the sent button twice on above post--internet was slow) ANOTHER SINGLE MENZ QUES...
Can anyone please tell me why a certain number of these CFC Single Men end up lame and in wheelchairs?
Are their jobs so physically demanding? Is something lacking in their diet that would do this? Is there another common underlying cause? I have heard this more than once and from more than one source. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 3:26 pm: |
|
Bramble: "Why do some of the single men end up lame and in wheelchairs?"
There are several factors which contribute to this.
- Many of them work low-paying jobs with little or no health insurance. Since most of the older single men give a majority of their pay to the church, they cannot afford adequate care.
- The food served in the fellowship hall often was high in fat and grease. This did not help my own cholesterol and blood pressure. The poor diet, coupled with a liack of proper physical activity, contributed to several men becoming morbidly obese. I myself weighed around 260 when I left CFCMI; I currently weigh a more manageable 215.
- Sleep deprivation is a major problem, too. Many of us got by on four hours' sleep a night; this resulted in poor work performance, sleeping on watch, and other problems. Immune systems were also compromised and sometimes led to men meeting an early death.
In 1990, there was heated controversy surrounding the death of Jay Owens, a single man who served four years in the Navy and moved to Waukegan where he was a dedicated member of the church. He was so dedicated he refused to seek medical attention; had he gone to the hospital when he was first feeling ill, he would not have died from pneumonia. This sort of thing was hushed up pretty quick, because the media would have had a feeding frenzy on L.R. Davis and how he enslaved the single men.
Psychologically, there are issues we deal with after we leave. Davis threatened a lot of men with eternal damnation if they ever left the organization. I dealt with this too. Almost five years later, I am still serving God, holding fast to the truth, and enjoying a greater deal of freedom than I did in CFCMI.
We also were isolated from our own families too. Many military men were discouraged from taking leave over Christmas or any other time unless it was to "help the church". There are still a lot of areas in my own family relationship that need healing thanks to Davis, Thomas, and Paine.
I will take a short break from posting here, but will return in a few days. |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 5:04 pm: |
|
Hey,Ya'll...I've been wondering why ABC hasn't been accepting new members...in light of the recent announcements of moving, I was hoping those left holding the bag would have someplace they could go...maybe they will find their way here. I too have noticed an increased number of viewers on ABC...think I know why. Somebody dug up an old thread about this cult on the Waukegan Town Forums website. (waukegan whispers section--see for yourself) That topic got several hundred hits within weeks; and that contained the link to ABC. Thankfully, anyone can use GOOGLE and find out (in seconds) about all the garbage these CFCMI LOOSERS have been trying to cover up for decades. So is the modern age...
Bramble, I will pray for you and the deliverance of your friend. |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 5:08 pm: |
|
Hey,Ya'll...I've been wondering why ABC hasn't been accepting new members...in light of the recent announcements of moving, I was hoping those left holding the bag would have someplace they could go...maybe they will find their way here. I too have noticed an increased number of viewers on ABC...think I know why. Somebody dug up an old thread about this cult on the Waukegan Town Forums website. (waukegan whispers section--see for yourself) That topic got several hundred hits within weeks; and that contained the link to ABC. Thankfully, anyone can use GOOGLE and find out (in seconds) about all the garbage these CFCMI LOOSERS have been trying to cover up for decades. So is the modern age...
Bramble, I will pray for you and the deliverance of your friend. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 64.91.79.74
| | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 10:30 am: |
|
To Turning Japnese:
I thank you for your prayers. It agree it is important to pray for these people that the Holy Spirit will open their eyes and soften their hearts and give them the Courage to leave. God's mercy is infinite. We need only to ask. Some people forget that.
I did see the Waukegan Town Forums. Regarding ABC: you will see another poster (jsc1215) that says the webmaster doesn't have much to do with it anymore--pity. I'm sure that some of those visitors we see there are thinking of leaving CFC. |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.137.230.123
| | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 2:47 pm: |
|
bramble: "From what I have read on the www.cfcmi.org website CFCMI does not believe in the Holy Trinity in the sense of One God but Three Persons as most Christians do. Likewise they believe that Jesus does not have a human nature in equal proportion to His divine nature. Please correct me if I am incorrect on these statements of belief."
CFCMI believes in the Oneness of God, having its roots in the Apostolic movement. They believe Jesus was God manifst in flesh, being fully God and fully man. L.R. Davis was a licensed minister with the United Pentecostal Church until allegations surfaced in Arkansas about sodomy and child molesting. They practice water baptism by full immersion in the name of Jesus Christ. They differ from other Oneness churches in that they no longer teach the infilling of the Holy Ghost (with evidence of speaking in tongues) as part of the new birth. I am also a Oneness believer, and will be happy to discuss our differences offline.
bramble: "Regarding people still in CFCMI I am of the postion that their physical, and psychological needs should be met first. These needs for some have been sorely neglected for a quarter of a century. As missionaries of different churches can and do work together I believe that we must present a united front and extend the hand of friendship to those who may be contemplating leaving. After they have left and after some time has passed then religious differences should be discussed with them."
I will agree to a point. I agree their immediate needs must be met first, especially the single men who lived in the substandard housing and were pretty much isolated from society. My emphasis would be rather than trying to enter a discussion on religious differences, simply let the folks who are considering leaving know they will not go to hell if they leave CFCMI. I left almost five years ago, and I did not leave Jesus...just a bad environment. They need to see God is still with them regardless of what the CFCMI leaders say. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.177.1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 6:17 pm: |
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To JSC:
I would be happy do debate, however, I believe it is more important, at first, to discuss what Apostolic Christians believe. When and how did this movement start? Who was the founder? Did Apostolic Christians ever believe in the Holy Trinity?
Also, there are those on the internet who have characterized other Pentecostal Churches as having similar abuses as CFC especially regarding attendance at services and regarding mandatory giving to their church, etc.
As an outsider I wonder if any or all Pentecostal churches are abusive in any way. That was the point of my post.
I also wanted to ask you what church you grew up in.
BTW: I agree that we must convince our friends in CFC that they WILL NOT go to HELL simply for walking out. I've done my best in this regard.
God Bless! |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.177.1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 8:04 pm: |
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CORR TO ABOVE:I would be happy to debate, ONLINE ONLY. That is the reason why I started the other thread...and for other reasons listed in above post.
God Bless,
Bramble |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 8:52 pm: |
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Not to divert you guys from having your little debate...I checked the Waukegan Forum and the original CFCMI thread got locked, but another one got started (Hooray!) Someone added a juicy little tidbit about the pastors arrogantly documenting their "glorified Harley Boys Nite Out" on the church's website. That post got deleted by the arbiter, unfortunately. So much for free speech; I guess the truth can be offensive to some. Anyway, I think ABC should be reopened because there may be a serious NEED for it. Maybe someone can drop a link on ABC to the Waukegan site? An important question here, tho...in Waukegan, is there still a "live-in" men's quarters? If so, where? Does the church still provide meals for these guys?
I'm asking because I know someone stuck in that cult. He is really afraid of Hell...I ask, what's there to be afraid of, if a child molester can make it to the pearly gates on a tearful deathbed "confession?" (according to his son-in-law, of course.)
At least people are finding out the TRUTH about that place. God will take care of the rest.
Blessings.... |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.56.142
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 10:37 pm: |
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Fm Turningjapanese:
"I'm asking because I know someone stuck in that cult. He is really afraid of Hell...I ask, what's there to be afraid of, if a child molester can make it to the pearly gates on a tearful deathbed "confession?" (according to his son-in-law, of course.)
At least people are finding out the TRUTH about that place. God will take care of the rest.
Blessings.... "
(I think the Pillars speaks of the walkouts by names eraced from their website. No more working search function)
Jesus will forgive all sins if we ask. The unforgivable sin is not asking for forgiveness. In a way we can send ourselves to Hell by not asking or and accepting God's forgiveness.
It is so sad that people can be so afraid. Send him something that reminds him of God's mercy--a tract or something.
Is your friend in Waukegan?
God Bless,
Bramble |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 10:58 pm: |
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Yes.
I have no more tears left; only prayers. for all. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.59.97
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 5:54 pm: |
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Regarding Waukegan Forum:
It is almost as if the arbiter were an active member of CFC and seems very thin skinned. Every CFC Forum can't get locked!!! How strange!! |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 8:58 pm: |
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There is a lot of nastiness on that board...personal attacks, etc... Don't know anything about the arbiter. People can still read and find out about that CFCMI hole. Once those dogs skip town, maybe those left will find a real church. It makes me ill to think that "church" had a school too, founded by a freakin' pedophile...It's SICK!!!! If L.R. Davis was around nowadays, he'd have to register as a sex offender and would not be allowed anywhere near a school, park or a bus-stop. I wonder where those kids are now...
I'm just glad their crappy cover-up is being exposed; via the net; after all these years. I can't help my pal, whose brain is already scrambled, but I can warn those sailors at the base about that cult. Others feel the same, and are willing to voice their strong opinions. Hence, the lock-down on the Waukegan Forums. Not to worry, tho...I'm sure someone will start a new thread as soon as those con-men leave town. Don't know anything about the other congregations; they seem to be led by LR's corrupt yes-men as well, all just wanting the almighty $.
Time will tell...
Peace. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.182.13
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 11:10 pm: |
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To Turningjapanese:
Just keep on praying for him and others. If your Church has a prayer request book write something in it. That's what I do. It took him and others a long time to get this way. He is in God's hands. With God all things are possible.
Your friend isn't planning to go to Norfolk is he?
What other congregations? I'm not in Chicago, you see.
God Bless! |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:39 pm: |
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Yes...we are all in God's hands; I trust in His plan. My friend is not saying if he is moving. This whole "God-led" relocation is just an overblown "retirement" plan for the Paines...they don't give a rat's a** about their congregation...they're just inviting them along to make them "feel important", knowing most families would NOT be able to afford to move. The ones that do go probably have no lives outside of the church; their source of identity being tied to that place, via years of intimidation and brainwashing. The other congregation is in CA, run by one of LR's sociopathic whack-jobs.
Are you in Norfolk? Is your friend a single guy there? How did you know there were more walk-outs? I think it's ironic that when people wise up and leave, it's called a "demonic revolt" by the "pastors." How about calling it what it is...a "God-led" exodus from a mind-controlling cult that spiritually abuses people for financial gain?
Peace. |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.59.97
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 4:40 pm: |
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Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:39 pm:
Fm Turningjapanese:
"Yes...we are all in God's hands; I trust in His plan. My friend is not saying if he is moving. This whole "God-led" relocation is just an overblown "retirement" plan for the Paines...they don't give a rat's a** about their congregation...they're just inviting them along to make them "feel important","
I agree. I wonder if they will 'cut and run' as JSC and some others have said. IMO: They also want to take all their 'house slaves' with them, but if they stay in Illinois so what! I doubt the 'pastors' would really miss them.
"knowing most families would NOT be able to afford to move. The ones that do go probably have no lives outside of the church; their source of identity being tied to that place, via years of intimidation and brainwashing. The other congregation is in CA, run by one of LR's sociopathic whack-jobs."
I wonder how many can afford to make the move. Besides Norfolk would seem like Siberia for those from San Diego--just kidding--but they wouldn't like having temperatures in the 30s and 40s all winter long. I bet most of these people stay in CA.
"Are you in Norfolk?"
I used to live in Norfolk. I live very far from there now.
"Is your friend a single guy there?"
My friend is or was a single guy there. I wonder if he walked out. I haven't heard from him in a while. He seems to have an extremely low opinion of Davis. He may be souring on CFC as a whole.
"How did you know there were more walk-outs?"
It just seems that
www.pillars.net pulls references to any single guys who have left. See for yourself. Call it a hunch. I'm an observer that's all. There was also a post on ABC asking about three possible walkouts. No one seemed to know if that was the case as no reply was given.
"I think it's ironic that when people wise up and leave, it's called a "demonic revolt" by the "pastors." How about calling it what it is...a "God-led" exodus from a mind-controlling cult that spiritually abuses people for financial gain?" --yes indeed!
The walk-outs are indeed God lead. A "ministry" build on rape, child molestation, child pornography, drug pushing, coercion, slavery, greed lies, etc. etc. etc. can not be of God. Of the seven deadly sins listed in the Bible I doubt that CFC leaders missed a one--not to mention the 10 Commandments.
The "ministry" was started by Davis to give him a stable of young men for his own evil purposes--(gag)
The Evil One uses our sins to his advantage if we persist in sinful behaviour because sin weakens us.
I'm a firm believer in both penance and forgivenss (reconciliation) . People just need to trust that God will forgive them if they only ask.
How often do you see your friend?
Were you ever a part of CFC?
God Bless!
Bramble |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.183.30
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 6:05 pm: |
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Question:
Was Ken Gerry ever a part of CFCMI? He is a pastor in Norfolk and his church seems to be a CFC clone. I found some posts referring to it on this board. (New Life Christian Center) |
jsc1215
New member
Username: jsc1215
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 192.104.67.221
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 6:15 pm: |
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bramble: "Isn't NLCC a spliter off of CFCMI aka: FCFC aka: Christian Fellowship Church? Check out www.abusivechurches.org. You may find this NLCC listed by one of the posters somewhere. I think I remember it being mentioned there.
PS: I may have been thinking of New Beginnings Christian Ministries, but NLCC still sounds just like Christian Fellowship Church."
Ken Gerry was never affiliated with CFCMI. He pastored another church called Open Door Chapel.
New Beginnings is a splinter from CFCMI. C.J. Hunter is the new pastor; Duane & Lisa Robinson moved to Wisconsin. |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 12:51 pm: |
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Bramble:
I was never a part of that place; if I was, I wouldn't have lasted long!! Were you? I see my friend only occasionally; I steer clear away from Bible talk with him. It would not be a good topic to discuss right now. You wrote:
My friend is or was a single guy there. I wonder if he walked out. I haven't heard from him in a while. He seems to have an extremely low opinion of Davis. He may be souring on CFC as a whole.
Are you able to talk to him? I think many were so afraid of the **** Davis fed them, they became paralyzed, in a way. If you let him know you are there for him, he may confide in you, in time. Maybe. Depends on the relationship you have; the type of friendship...and if he is ready to accept the situation for what it is.
As far as I'm concerned, those lying, uneducated self-proclaimed "leaders" can go eat worms.
Me? I can only trust in God's plan and timeline in the matters of CFC...although I do pray he hurries up with that timeline... |
bramble
New member
Username: bramble
Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 4.159.178.7
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:38 am: |
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"Bramble:
I was never a part of that place; if I was, I wouldn't have lasted long!! Were you?"
I was never in CFC either--thank God!
"I see my friend only occasionally; I steer clear away from Bible talk with him. It would not be a good topic to discuss right now."
It's been my experience that these people can get very defensive. It can be done with great care--but every one is different. I think it depends on just how 'in' they are. Those on the periphery may be more reachable.
Bramble wrote:
'My friend is or was a single guy there. I wonder if he walked out. I haven't heard from him in a while. He seems to have an extremely low opinion of Davis. He may be souring on CFC as a whole.'
"Are you able to talk to him?"
Time will tell. There has been some correspondance.
"I think many were so afraid of the **** Davis fed them, they became paralyzed, in a way. If you let him know you are there for him, he may confide in you, in time. Maybe. Depends on the relationship you have; the type of friendship...and if he is ready to accept the situation for what it is."
I think anyone who has seen through the Davis malarkey would not stay there forever. I do think some think they can reform their church, but many have tried and failed. I don't dismiss that fear is a factor for some of them.
It is an organisation built on corruption from the beginning and the pastors claim infalliblity and even impecciblity to the point that NO CHRISTIAN MINISTERS in ANY church has the gumption to claim. There has been no public revelation since "The Book of Revelation".
It's a sorry situation that these UPC and CFC "ministers" have never attended an actual seminary or Bible College--whatever you would like to call it. Their own Ministers' College has never materialized.
In my opinion: UPC, CFC, and some other churches are pretty much the same with abuse of power, soaking up the free time of everyone in the congregation, bullying them out of 95 percent of their money. Their theology is much the same, too, as far as I can tell. They all seem to be cults from what I read.
I am trying now to learn about related sects. This board and and others have helped. There seems to have been this homosexual pediaphilia early on in the UPC. Hamm--Davis' boyhood pastor was one. There have been others. I read that somewhere on the internet maybe even on this board.
Have you checked out any books from the library on cults? Book stores can get them if you have a exact title. I went into a popular chain bookstore asking for a book. I think he though that I was looking for a cult to join by the department he referred me to. (LOL)
CFC's days are numbered....
(Message edited by bramble on January 15, 2008) |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 7:38 pm: |
|
Bramble...
Yes, I have read books. One in particular matched CFC exactly...it made that "church" look like a comical cliche...what is NOT comical, tho, is the damage done to these people in the name of "JESUS".
Sometimes, I love to snoop...Just today I jumped on the CFCMI website, and lo and behold---pictures of their "international board meeting," now taking place in the warm Carolinas...another glorified BOYS NITE OUT for the scheisters; complete with beachfront accomodations. What I though was funny, going thru those pics, was one shot in particular...ole "Pete Paine-in-the A**" giving a presentation on CHURCH VALUES. (The list behind him on a whiteboard.) TRUTH was not on the list. (?) Why the heck does a preacher need to give other preachers a lecture on values????? Come on!!!
Either they are putting on a nice show, or showing the level of their true MENTALity. I'm voting for the dog and pony show. I don't understand how this congregation could be so deceived....wake up!!!!!! If this church is hurting for cash so bad, why are the "leaders" taking all these high-end trips? I bet the money could be better spent on all those Haitian kids they claim to support and educate. Oh, wait--Humanitarian Effort was NOT on the Church Values List.
These people call themselves Christ-like??? |
turningjapanese
New member
Username: turningjapanese
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 75.58.77.54
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 7:41 pm: |
|
Bramble...
Yes, I have read books. One in particular matched CFC exactly...it made that "church" look like a comical cliche...what is NOT comical, tho, is the damage done to these people in the name of "JESUS".
Sometimes, I love to snoop...Just today I jumped on the CFCMI website, and lo and behold---pictures of their "international board meeting," now taking place in the warm Carolinas...another glorified BOYS NITE OUT for the scheisters; complete with beachfront accomodations. What I though was funny, going thru those pics, was one shot in particular...ole "Pete Paine-in-the A**" giving a presentation on CHURCH VALUES. (The list behind him on a whiteboard.) TRUTH was not on the list. (?) Why the heck does a preacher need to give other preachers a lecture on values????? Come on!!!
Either they are putting on a nice show, or showing the level of their true MENTALity. I'm voting for the dog and pony show. I don't understand how this congregation could be so deceived....wake up!!!!!! If this church is hurting for cash so bad, why are the "leaders" taking all these high-end trips? I bet the money could be better spent on all those Haitian kids they claim to support and educate. Oh, wait--Humanitarian Effort was NOT on the Church Values List.
These people call themselves Christ-like??? |
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